Pod Insights The Psychology of your 20s 403. How to do hard things (using psychology) About this episode The best things in life aren't always the easiest and it's often this exertion and extra effort that holds us back from diving in or fully committing. Whether it's a new routine, an ambitious study schedule or workout plan, knowing how we can use psychology and neuroscience to make hard tasks easier is incredibly valuable. In today's episode we discuss:
• The 5 minute rule
• The power of a persona
• Using mental imagery and visualisation to do hard things
• The power of learned industriousness
• The 3 forms of motivation to know and implement
This episode will make all the hard things you've been putting off infinitely easier. Listen now!
Watch on Netflix: HERE https://netflix.com/thepsychologyofyour20s
Follow Jemma on Instagram: @jemmasbeg https://www.instagram.com/jemmasbeg/?hl=en#
Follow the podcast on Instagram: @thatpsychologypodcast https://www.instagram.com/thatpsychologypodcast/?hl=en#
Subscribe on Substack: @thepsychologyofyour20s https://substack.com/@thepsychologyofyour20s
For business: [email protected] mailto:[email protected]
The Psychology of your 20s is not a substitute for professional mental health help. If you are struggling, distressed or require personalised advice, please reach out to your doctor or a licensed psychologist.
See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Transcript 7,521 words · 10 speakers
Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:00 Speaker 00 This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.
0:04 Speaker 01 OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 make it happen fast. Rated A+ by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of five-star TrustPilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at ondeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.
0:32 Speaker 02 Granger knows if you're a procurement manager at an industrial manufacturing facility, you're balancing inventory and budget while sourcing critical supplies across the operation. Too much inventory? Costs climb. Too little? Production slows. Granger's $2 billion in on-hand inventory helps you get what you need when you need it, so you can help keep budgets balanced and lines moving. Call 1-800-GRANGER, click Granger.com, or just stop by. Granger, for the ones who get it done.
1:02 Jemma Sbeg? Hey, question. Are you an Extra Care member at CVS? Because there is literally no reason not to be. It's super easy to join and members instantly get extra big deals on things you buy most. I mean, this is stuff you're already buying. Things like snacks, personal care products, all of it. And after you join, the savings just show up. Deals refresh every two weeks, but they don't last long. Head to your local CVS or open the CVS app, look for extra big deals, and start saving today.
1:35 Jemma Sbeg? This episode is sponsored by Gymshark. Gymshark has spent over 14 years obsessing over gym clothing and the people who wear it. And let me just say, I think we all know they are very, very good at what they do. No, seriously, their stuff is so good. Their everyday seamless collection is light, it's soft, it's stretchy. All of their stuff just looks good on and it's made for people who love to exercise, whatever exercise that is. Lifting, cardio, Pilates, running around campus, maybe just doing errands. Discover Gymshark and find your new favorite gym clothing at gymshark.com.
2:12 Jemma Sbeg? These days, there are more people than ever telling you how to manage your health. Your social media feed is packed with wellness trends telling you to cold plunge, protein max, and so much more. But what's actually real? What's exaggerated? What's just wrong? Health vs. Hype from the American Medical Association breaks it all down. Emmy nominated hosts Trace Dominguez talks to health influencers, real people, and most importantly, doctors, to separate fact from fiction. Because when it comes to your health, who you listen to really matters. Listen to Health vs. Hype wherever you get your podcasts.
2:55 Jemma Sbeg? Hello, everybody. I'm Jemma Sbeg and welcome back to the Psychology of Your 20s, the podcast where we talk through the biggest changes, moments and transitions of our 20s and what they mean for our psychology.
3:15 Jemma Sbeg? Hello, everybody. Welcome back to the show. Welcome back to the podcast. New listeners, old listeners, wherever you are in the world, you guys know the deal. It is so great to have you here back for another episode as we, of course, break down the psychology of our 20s. There is a very famous saying, at least I think it's famous, that if it was easy, everybody would be doing it. And when I was in university, I used to have that printed out on like a piece of paper. I think I even wrote it out. And I had it blue tacked on my wall above my desk. And when I was studying for exams, when I was working through assignments, it was kind of like my go-to phrase for motivation to like embrace the hard stuff,
4:00 Jemma Sbeg? to appreciate that hard things bring about the best rewards, that kind of gist. However, as I have gotten older and I was thinking about that quote the other day, and this is what has inspired that episode, as I've gotten older, I've sort of revised my thinking around this. You know, yes, definitely. Some of the best things in life do demand a lot of our effort, time, energy, attention. But does that necessarily mean that they need to be unenjoyable or difficult? Does it always have to be such like a mental slug? I think those words and like concepts tend to get all melted together.
4:41 Jemma Sbeg? When we talk about doing hard things, we imagine that they have to be almost painful. I also think, you know, with that quote, there is also this underlying secondary sense that maybe you and I, we don't deserve success if we don't almost suffer for it. If we don't strive for it, for it, if it, you know, came to us easily. Today, I want to talk about that. I want to talk about this idea of how we can train our brain to do hard things by offering you a different approach, a different formula or understanding, one in which hard things become easier.
5:22 Jemma Sbeg? Using some of these principles of psychology that mean that we find difficult tasks less mentally taxing, we find it less difficult to start, we appreciate the rewards more. You know, all motivation, our desire to do anything, big or small, even the most mundane of tasks, it all starts in the brain and it all starts with how we perceive how difficult the thing in front of us is and how we perceive the outcome and the rewards of our hard effort. That is actually something that we can influence. We can influence how our brain kind of perceives all of these components and mean that the hard, difficult things that all of us have
6:07 Jemma Sbeg? to do in our twenties, like the things that are just so frustrating and annoying that we often put off, become less of a chore. I will also say, our brain does like a challenge, even when it's a bit physically, mentally painful. That's something that I think sometimes we forget when we just keep taking the easy route, which I'm definitely guilty of. The New York Marathon, as I'm recording this, was, I think, a couple of weeks ago. I love the New York Marathon and every time I watch it, I think, why does anyone want to do that? And the answer is that the feeling of doing hard things that exert us is something that we actually value as humans. That is something that actually we do need more
6:52 Jemma Sbeg? of in our lives. It all comes down to this thing known as the effort paradox. The more effort we put into something, the more we value it. That's why, you know, you value the crappy mug that you made at a pottery class over the perfect mug that you got at Ikea. The end of a hard project is valued more than the outcome of an easy one, and it actually does make our life feel more fulfilling. We feel proud of ourselves and we just reap the rewards. So today, let us break down exactly how we can use the principles of behavioural psychology mainly, but also neuroscience to do the hard things, to start
7:33 Jemma Sbeg? the hard routines, especially in our twenties, when we can reap a lot of lifelong rewards from getting into the habit from biting the bullet. So without further ado, let's break down the psychology of how you and I can train our brains to do just that.
7:53 Jemma Sbeg? The journey to completing or starting anything hard all actually has the exact same start line. And the start line is going from doing nothing to doing something. And I think a lot of us know that that transition, that jump from doing nothing to something is the hardest. And it stops a lot of us from ever really beginning, even if we really, really want to see where something's going to take us. That is why my first biggest tip for how we can train our brain to do hard things is the five minute rule. You know, after you begin, the first five minutes of anything is going to be the hardest because
8:33 Jemma Sbeg? you have to dig deep and find the motivation to just begin and to deal with that tension from going from doing nothing to doing something. And a big part of why that is so daunting is that it feels like when we begin a new task or we begin a new routine or we're like, okay, I'm committed to going to the gym every single morning, or I'm committed to in this moment right now, finishing my assignment and I need to work on it in this moment right now, absolutely have to do it, even though I don't want to do it. It often is like, okay, by telling myself that I need to do that, I now I'm committing to a lot more than just a couple of minutes. I'm committed to a whole process, a whole
9:17 Jemma Sbeg? period of time where I have to be focused on this task. And it's that huge mountain and the idea of climbing that mountain, knowing it's gonna take a while, that means that we put things off because of the time burden. Instead, we wanna overcome our brain's natural tendency to wanna avoid discomfort that comes with the beginning of the task by saying, I will just do this for five minutes. It's not actually a trick. You are only gonna do the thing for five minutes. Unless, after you have, you know, lasted that period of time, you feel better about the thing. You feel better about doing it.
10:01 Jemma Sbeg? If you're five minutes into your run and you're like, okay, I've done five minutes, I can stop. I'm allowed to stop because I've done better than doing nothing. But, you know, maybe I'll just do another minute. Maybe I'll do another minute after that. You see that you have overcome the first mental barrier. You've overcome that first point of tension. This is just such a simple, accessible cognitive behavioral strategy. And the reason that it works so much is also because it essentially tricks us into not being able to procrastinate. Now, one of the foundations of procrastination, a lot of people think, assume that it's laziness. It's actually not. It's perfectionism.
10:44 Jemma Sbeg? If you are an overachiever, you are a big thinker, you are a perfectionist. The beginning of a task is always gonna be the hardest because it's in that moment that you realize how much opportunity and space there is to fail, how much space there is to do it wrong, how much space there is to be criticized, to not live up to your expectations. That is scary. And that is what's causing you to procrastinate and causing you to put off this. Reality that you're so fearful of. But the five minute rule undercuts that. Because it looks at this perfection as part of our brain and says, actually, like, you can clock off for this because anything that I do in five minutes is not going to be perfect.
11:24 Jemma Sbeg? So, great, I know that, that's amazing. I can just actually ignore my perfectionism for this moment. And just give it a go. It doesn't have to be perfect. It definitely doesn't have to be done. And by the time you have gotten that momentum, suddenly, your perfectionism is kind of like trying to play catch up. It's like, hey, wait, you tricked me. I thought that we were like, not actually gonna do this today. I thought that we were gonna like, give it a break. Like, I thought that, you know, I'd stopped you. It's like, actually, no. When you start giving it a go, when you get on like the fast train, you start seeing that it's easier. You start seeing that actually you're doing better than you expected, perhaps.
12:06 Jemma Sbeg? And you also start realising that progress is just, is just important. You've already made a dent and now you have something to work with. So the five minute rule, anything that you know is gonna be hard, just say you have to do it for five minutes. And, and like I said before, you do only have to do it for five minutes. So if you're at the end of that period of time and you're like, okay, I wanna stop, that's fine. You're allowed to stop, but at least you did it. My second tip in this one is possibly one of my favourite strategies. I use this all the time. When I know I have to do something that is daunting, that is challenging, that I don't wanna do, I picture the best person I know at that thing. I picture them doing it. I think about them. I think about
12:51 Jemma Sbeg? how they hold themselves. I think about how they would go about it. It's a really powerful form of mental imagery. And when we concoct these mental images in our brain, it serves as a form of motivation. So, for example, anytime I need to do public speaking, I always think about my mum. Because my mum is absolutely excellent at it. She's amazing. And I think about like almost stepping into her shoes, stepping into her outfit, believing that I am her. And it's that admiration, but also the fact that she has set an example that I can almost copy, that makes me feel a lot more capable. It's almost like, I actually don't,
13:36 Jemma Sbeg? you know, I don't have to do all of this myself. Someone else that I know who I respect, who is great at this, has already done it for me. All I need to do is emulate them. All I need to do is copy them. I also, I will say, do this at the gym all the time, like as a way to stick to the hard parts of like my gym workouts and my gym routine. But instead of thinking about the best person I know at the gym, which to be honest would probably also be my mom, which is crazy because she's just a legend. But instead of thinking about someone I really admire and copying them and thinking about what they would do, I actually also visualize this person in my mind called Gym Gemma or Elite Gemma.
14:22 Jemma Sbeg? And Elite Gemma is like this really focused, fit version of myself that I've created. And I think about what she would do. I think about how confident she would be. I think about what moves she would do, what her routine would look like, how she would go about it. Would she care about those other people looking at her? No, she wouldn't. And Elite Gemma is who I step into in those moments where I'm like, I don't really want to do this, but she would. And I have to listen to what she would do here, so I need to go. So there is a great study from two thousand nineteen on this exact topic. And it's titled Mental Imagery as a Motivational Amplifier to Promote Activities. And I love this amplifier. It doesn't give you all the motivation to begin with,
15:07 Jemma Sbeg? but it takes that tiny bit of sensation in you that wants to do something and says you are capable, you are able to do this. So this study, it showed that when participants visualized themselves doing hard activities or hard things and then being successful or finishing the task, this was associated with higher activity completion compared to those who were just given a task and told to go about it. The other reason and I guess the other way in which I think mental imagery is really important here is that it is a great source of bravery and it is a great way to fake it till you make
15:50 Jemma Sbeg? it. And I'm going to give another example here of how I used a very similar visualization technique when I was trying to get over my fear of flying. I would imagine that I was someone famous and I would really picture being this like famous person who caught all these planes all the time. This was like a part of my fast luxurious life. And just like rehearsing that and thinking about that over and over again, creating that mental loop and repetition. I am this person. I'm emulating this person. It made me feel insanely powerful, insanely capable, and it was a complete game changer. So that is a way
16:34 Jemma Sbeg? that you can use your ability, your very amazing special human ability to create mental images in your mind. You can use that to trick yourself into feeling more capable. You've got to remember, your mind is the source of all your beliefs about how able you are and how brave you are and how courageous you are. So if you feed it all of this like artificial confidence that is based on how someone else does things or how a future or an amazing version of yourself does things, it's going to eat that up and it's not going to know the difference between that and a negative or self doubting thought. So it's
17:15 Jemma Sbeg? an incredible technique. Let's move on from this and talk about mood, talk about emotions. So if you have got something on your to do list that you have been avoiding for a while because it is hard, because it is boring, because you just simply don't want to do it. You've got to choose the right mood to start tackling that. You've got to choose the right mood to implement your five minutes. A two thousand and sixteen study found that when people are upset, they are less likely to try and do hard things. Very common sense, I understand. Sometimes we do just need like a good old fashioned psychological study to prove what we already know.
17:58 Jemma Sbeg? And the explanation behind why this is the case is also quite simple. When you're in a bad mood, all of your mental resources are at a lower point. They're all kind of plummeting, right? So you're not going to feel as motivated. You're not going to feel like you have any energy. You're also, well, your mind is going to look at this hard task and it's going to make it feel a lot bigger and a lot more difficult, a lot more challenging as a way to convince you to rest, convince you to get yourself back to a positive mental state by not putting any more pressure on yourself as it is.
18:40 Jemma Sbeg? During those times, that is not the time when you want to start doing the hard thing. That is not the time when you want to start doing your chores. That is not the time when you want to, you know, suddenly handle your taxes after you've had like a really long day at work. You've missed your train, you're having a fight with your friend, there's not enough food in the fridge. No. Because also another element of that is that you will end up resenting the activity even more when you have to do it when you're in a bad mood. And if you're trying to train yourself into a habit, but every time you go about doing the habit or practicing the behavior that is associated with it, every time you do that, if you're in a terrible mood, guess what's going to become associated?
19:25 Jemma Sbeg? The terrible mood and the behavior. And it's going to become almost like this pattern or this link or this relationship in your brain that when you think about the task, when you think about the, whatever it is thing that you need to do. Your brain's gonna be like, huh, every time we do that, we're in a bad mood. And it doesn't see like the correlation or the causation point, sorry, it doesn't see like the chicken or the egg problem, which one came first. So it's really important to build positive associations when we are doing hard things. I'm gonna use the gym example again and just think that it's like the easiest because it's like a behaviour where you go to the same place and it's like a, something that a lot of us are probably gonna be focused on in the new years.
20:06 Jemma Sbeg? If you are in a really bad mood, and I'm gonna tell you something that is probably counterintuitive. If you are in a really bad mood and one of your long-term goals is to go to the gym more often, actually don't go to the gym during those times. Some people would argue that the endorphins are gonna make you feel better, yada, yada, yada. In some ways, I think that is the case. But if you're going to go to the gym and just do a really crappy workout and you're not gonna feel like you pushed yourself, you're not even gonna get to that place of an endorphin high. Actually, what you're doing before you even get there is associating the bad mood with the behaviour. So when you are in the best mood, you've had a great day, you're feeling motivated, that's when you've got to almost like
20:51 Jemma Sbeg? slide in the hard tasks. It's like when parents like sneak vegetables into like meatballs or into like cookies. That's what you're doing here. Someone said to me, when I like first talked to them about this, like, that's such a waste of a good mood. Like, why would I do that? But actually, completing a hard task when you are already in a good mood has been shown to elevate that mood even further. And there is a continuation. So you feel really good in the moment, but then you also continue to feel good in the minutes, hours, even sometimes days afterwards. Maybe in part because of relief, like, oh gosh, finally, I did it, that's done. But also in part because of a sense of pride.
21:37 Jemma Sbeg? You know, how often? Do we actually challenge ourselves? And seriously, when was the last time you put a lot of effort into something? And it took a lot of commitment from you? And there were times when you doubted yourself and you didn't really want to do it. When was the last time you did that? Because as an adult, I do think that that's not as common anymore. It might be in like a workplace environment. But when it comes to your personal life, we very often are very, we don't tend to often. You know, just jumping all over my words there. We don't often tend to, changing it up again, we don't often tend to actually push ourselves. So I think that it's really important to actually give yourself the opportunity to do that,
22:21 Jemma Sbeg? to give yourself the confidence booster, to give yourself that further amplifier to your mood. Alrighty, we're gonna take a short little break because obviously I need to have a drink of water since I am just tumbling all over my words here. But when we return, we're gonna talk about how you can fall in love with the process and the different kinds of extrinsic, intrinsic and integrated motivation that you can use to do hard things. Stay with us, we'll be right back.
22:55 Speaker 00 OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 help make it happen fast. Rated A plus by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of five star TrustPilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at ondeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.
23:25 Jemma Sbeg? This episode is sponsored by Gymshark. Gymshark has spent over 14 years obsessing over gym clothing and the people who wear it. And let me just say, I think we all know they are very, very good at what they do. No, seriously, their stuff is so good. Their everyday seamless collection is light, it's soft, it's stretchy. All of their stuff just looks good on and it's made for people who love to exercise, whatever exercise that is, lifting, cardio, Pilates, running around campus, maybe just doing errands. Discover Gymshark and find your new favorite gym clothing at gymshark.com.
24:02 Speaker 04 This mood check is brought to you by State Farm. Porque tu bienestar también merece protección. ¿Qué tal, mi gente? Honey German checking in contigo. Take a second. Literalmente, un momentico para ti. How's your corazón feeling today? If it's a little tired, a little oof, you're not alone. Have you eaten algo rico? Taken a deep breath? Maybe even turned off your phone for cinco minutitos? I promise, the memes will still be there. Sometimes self-care isn't candles and meditation. It's just saying no. It's drinking a little bit of agua. It's letting yourself rest sin pena. You don't have to prove anything today. Just be, breathe. Estás haciendo lo mejor que puedes. And yes, that's enough.
24:45 Speaker 04 Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.
24:48 Speaker 05 This is Joel Larsgaard from How To Money. As someone who travels a lot for work, I really appreciate a premium airport experience. With the Delta SkyMiles Reserve Business American Express Card, it truly feels like you can have it all. For a limited time, new Delta SkyMiles Reserve Business Card members can earn 200,000 bonus miles, the highest miles offered this year.
25:08 Speaker 06 Yeah, card members can also enjoy 15 visits to the Delta Sky Club each medallion year when flying Delta. And you can unlock unlimited Delta Sky Club access after spending $75,000 in purchases on your card during a calendar year. Those are benefits you can get behind. You also get for one time guest passes each medallion year, so you can bring a friend or a colleague along. 15 Sky Club visits plus four guest passes? That's up to $950 in annual value. Value estimate based on $50 per visit rate to purchase additional visits or bring a guest to the Delta Sky Club.
25:44 Speaker 05 It's that kind of premium access that helps you feel right at home and at ease, no matter where you're heading. Apply today at delta.com/podcast. Offer ends November 4th. Minimum spending requirements and terms apply.
25:56 Speaker 07 This is Shirley Strawberry from the Steve Harvey Morning Show. Buy smart, drive for less and trade for more. That's Toyota affordability. And it starts with a great deal on an all-wheel-drive Camry, Corolla Cross or a Corolla Sedan with the latest features and tech. Or test drive a spacious Grand Highlander or adventure-ready RAV4. And with so many hybrid models available, you can enjoy longer trips without all the stops. While Toyota's legendary resale value means you could get more at trade-in, get a great deal today and a great value tomorrow. Shop toyota.com for deals and details. Toyota, let's go places.
26:37 Jemma Sbeg? There is a psychological theory that when we don't just fall in love with the result, but we fall in love with the process, we actually perform better and we get further. And this theory is known as learned industriousness. Here's the thing about doing everything for like the big golden finish line, right? Anything hard, you are just thinking about what it's going to be like when it's done, when it's over, when you have the reward. It actually takes a while to get there. And along that path, along that route, there's probably not going to be a lot of, you know, encouragement to spur you on. People might not believe in you. The thing that you're doing might just be very mundane.
27:20 Jemma Sbeg? No one's going to be celebrating you shouting like, yay, you've got this. Maybe there's not like any reward that you could even provide yourself during that time. So if you are doing it all for the final outcome, you are going to unfortunately probably lose steam. So what this theory says is that individuals who are reinforced for exerting high effort on a task, they don't just fall in love with the outcome. They actually in some ways get hooked or get addicted purely to the sensation of performing highly, purely to the sensation of exerting themselves. So we flip the whole narrative away from the physical tangible outcome
28:03 Jemma Sbeg? and towards a love for like the everyday hard. Actions that get us there. So how do we do that? Well, well, a few ways. Firstly is by really romanticising the process, really falling in love and getting quite sentimental about what it feels like to perform a task day in, day out, what it feels like to be working towards your goals. Like what a privilege that is, how romantic it is. What's that story gonna look like? What's that gonna feel like? I did this a lot when I was writing my book and I was staying up late and I felt very stressed, but instead of being like, oh my god, this just sucks and I'm just so tired. I would like imagine that I was Ernest Hemingway or like a famous author
28:47 Jemma Sbeg? working into the night in Paris on my book with a glass of wine. And I was like this tortured author, poet type. And I created this whole image that made me really feel like it was like fun. It was fun to, not so much suffer, but it was fun to strive. It was fun to work hard. There was like this glamour associated with it. There was this romanticism that made it special and fun. And like I have actually like very fond memories of those times, you know, even when it was really, really like it felt nice knowing that I could push myself. Another way of doing this is by really noticing
29:28 Jemma Sbeg? the signs of progress and letting them serve as the reward to kind of further fuel your fire. So the feeling of sore muscles, the feeling of being really mentally tired at the end of the day, but like super fulfilled and super satisfied and like falling, falling asleep and just feeling really great about yourself. The feeling of seeing, I don't know, your art get better, seeing your writing get better, seeing your grades get better. That is a way of bringing about learned industriousness. It's why I really, um, one of the things I really recommend and that I love when people do this is when they set up Instagram pages for like their projects, like their marathons or an art project
30:11 Jemma Sbeg? or their, like when they're learning a language or when they're renovating their house, like setting up a progress page or a project page. You can really see how things get better and improve and get bigger and larger and dreams come true. My god, I sound so cliche, but you really can see that day in and day out. It gets better every single day. Finally, the best way to really promote learned industriousness and the way that really aligns best with the theory is to just simply reinforce your effort through physical reward. So what this really relies on is something known as the hedonic principle.
30:53 Jemma Sbeg? As humans, as creatures, as people with brains, we are wired towards things that make us feel good and we are wired to avoid things that make us feel uncomfortable. Super simple principle, right? But an easy way to make an uncomfortable thing feel good is by maximizing the pleasure and the reward we get from it. So the more candy, I don't know, like the more candy you offer to a child, the more excited they're gonna be to go to the dentist, even if they hate the dentist. The more treats you give a puppy, like the more obedient they become. Allegedly, that's always backfired and made my puppies and dogs super fat, but you know what I mean?
31:35 Jemma Sbeg? You can also do this for yourself by providing like physical rewards, artificial rewards that you give yourself in lieu of the bigger reward. One way we see people do this is by creating a schedule for positive reinforcement. That's an incredible behavioral change strategy. So people do this for savings goals a lot. I see this a lot on like TikTok and Instagram and I love seeing these. Every like one hundred dollars, two hundred dollars, a thousand dollars they save, twenty dollars, fifty dollars, whatever it is, goes into buying something that they really, really want. So that there is that reinforcement that's going along with the hard work. We all kind of do want a special little thing every now and again.
32:20 Jemma Sbeg? We want a break every now and again. We want a sweet treat every now and again. Factor that into how you are going about your goals, whatever it is. Especially if it's a goal that is really based on a deficit of something. So having less saving money, having less sweet treats, having less downtime because you're working really, really hard. You can use that as a form of motivation to make you wanna work. Harder so that you finally get the reward. We see like studies on this with rats all the time. You know, the more that they are reinforced um in a um structured way. So, you know, they finish a task, they get a treat. They finish the next task, it's a little bit harder, they get a treat.
33:05 Jemma Sbeg? The more that there is that structured reward, they end up performing better. They're more efficient, they tire less easily. And let's just say this, that it's not like a factor to do with energy. Like the reward is sometimes like they get to see their friend. Or the reward is like a pat, like it's not always food based, but they actually keep going for longer. The reason this is is the case scientifically, neurologically, the reason this is the case all comes down to dopamine. I think we all know like dopamine is the happy chemical. Dopamine is also the motivational chemical. It is the chemical that gets you to do things.
33:44 Jemma Sbeg? So if you want to increase the dopamine that you are accessing when doing hard things, you've got to provide some form of catalyst for the release of that, some form of trigger, some form of reward. It will make you happier, but it will also make you more motivated. There you go, the more you know. So when we do this, it's actually what creates intrinsic motivation. This is the first form of motivation we're going to be talking about. Intrinsic motivation is when you do things just because you love them and just because you find them enjoyable. So you don't have to force yourself to do things you love, right? Like I wouldn't have to force you to go to the beach. I wouldn't have to force you to like have a wine with your friends or force you to read your favorite book because you just like doing it.
34:30 Jemma Sbeg? And one way that we can make it so that we enjoy doing something, which is the highest form of motivation for actually doing it, is by associating positive experiences and reward with performance, determination, commitment, with, you know, doing the thing with being persistent.
34:50 Jemma Sbeg? Now, I know what you're probably thinking. How do I fall in love with doing something that is just actually so frustrating? And annoying and something that I really don't wanna do. Like, how do I enjoy my job that involves firing people? How do I fall in love with the process there? Or how do I fall in love with my painful IVF treatment? You know, that just sucks. Or like, how do I become intrinsically motivated to enjoy cleaning my toilet? There's just some things where this isn't possible. Like, we can't use this hedonic or pleasure principle. So the next best thing that you can aim for is integrated motivation.
35:36 Jemma Sbeg? So this occurs when a behavior is performed to gain both an external reward, but it also aligns with your sense of identity, your sense of, um, the internal sense of value and interests and who you are as a person. We can make our motivation to complete a task attached to our identity. And it's super, super powerful. You know, I clean the toilet because I am someone who is conscientious and I'm someone who cares about cleanliness and I care about having a nice environment. And because I am someone who cares about the details, even though I don't enjoy this, I'm gonna do it because it reinforces something that I find important about my identity.
36:21 Jemma Sbeg? I go through IVF treatment even when it's painful, even when it's hard, because I wanna be a parent. That is something I have always felt is a deep part of my life purpose. So I will endure the hard part of this journey because the outcome is something that is significant for my identity. The second best way that you can do hard things is to get super clear on the why and make a really, really big picture, like give it a meaning as big as life itself. Like I study because I believe in creating a better life for myself and I am someone who is a hard worker. So this behavior, although it is hard, is something that reinforces what I believe about myself.
37:05 Jemma Sbeg? It reinforces my self-concept, it reinforces my confidence, this is who I am. So who would I be if I didn't do this behavior? Who would I be if I didn't do these hard things? This is just so, so powerful for taking something that is just, you know, a random thing on your to-do list. Or maybe not, taking something that you have, you know, mixed feelings towards. It's uncomfortable, it's difficult, and it becomes this thing, this gateway to being a more true, authentic version of yourself. And of course, you're gonna wanna do that hard thing over the hard thing that is just bothersome. Over the hard thing that you have no meaning attached to.
37:48 Jemma Sbeg? Finally, you know, if that doesn't work, if the intrinsic motivation doesn't work and the like integrated motivation systems don't work, you can always rely on extrinsic motivation. And that is basically doing things publicly, doing things in a public setting in front of others, promising others that you're going to do it as a way to make you feel like you're accountable, make you feel like there are eyes on you. This is all rooted in social psychology. When we think that people are watching, we tend to behave better, we tend to put on our best behavior. You can use those same principles to force yourself to do hard things.
38:32 Jemma Sbeg? One of my friends does this in an excellent way. She studies in very public places because it, you know, makes her feel almost embarrassed to go on her phone, like the acknowledgement that someone could be watching her. And someone might be like, oh god, she's going on her phone, like that's not good, I thought she was studying. Yes, sometimes it might not be the best for certain goals or certain behaviors, but in terms of things where you're like, I just need to get this done. And I need someone who, you know, a stranger, doesn't even know me. I just need their presence to make me feel obligated to do this. Incredibly powerful.
39:09 Jemma Sbeg? That was my final tip for the day. We talked about intrinsic, integrated and external or extrinsic motivation. Intrinsic is the best, actually finding a way to enjoy or fall in love with the process. Secondly, you can find a way to make the activity a part or a reinforcer of an important part of your identity. And then if all, all that fails, you know, the floodgates roll open, you can rely on the judgment of others. Less than ideal, but sometimes important. I really hope that this episode has given you some motivation. You know, we've got one month left of this year. We've got so much going on. We have a lot of goals that we might want to achieve. And we also might be like preparing for next year. So I think these strategies are
39:54 Jemma Sbeg? really, really doable. And they're not about discipline. They're not about like working yourself to the bone. They're not a lot, not about burnout and exhaustion. They are small things that you can do mentally, psychologically, to be more productive and less busy and to reach your goals faster by essentially like tricking how our brain works and tricking our psychology. So if you did enjoy this episode, please make sure that you have left a five star review. If you leave a review on Apple as well, I'm looking at all of them at the moment. I'm like grabbing some out for a little post at the end of the year. I would really appreciate if you could leave some kind words there. Also, make sure you have pre-ordered the book. I know I've
40:39 Jemma Sbeg? been kind of not on the ball with reminding you guys, but yeah, it comes out next year and there will be a link in the podcast episode description, even if you just want to check out the cover. That's totally fine. I just appreciate any support that you are giving me at this like crazy amazing time in my life. Make sure you are following us on Instagram at that psychology podcast. And until next time, stay safe, stay kind, be gentle to yourself, and we will talk very, very soon.
41:13 Jemma Sbeg? This episode is sponsored by Gymshark. Gymshark has spent over 14 years obsessing over gym clothing and the people who wear it. And let me just say, I think we all know they are very, very good at what they do. No, seriously, their stuff is so good. Their everyday seamless collection is light, it's soft, it's stretchy. All of their stuff just looks good on and it's made for people who love to exercise, whatever exercise that is, lifting, cardio, Pilates, running around campus, maybe just doing errands. Discover Gymshark and find your new favorite gym clothing at gymshark.com.
41:50 Speaker 06 Hey folks, it's Matt Altmaix. And Joel Larsgaard. From the How To Money Podcast. If you travel for work like I do, you know that every trip is an opportunity to get more from the miles that you are already earning. Whether you are heading to your next client meeting or catching a flight home, those miles can go a long way.
42:08 Speaker 05 And for a limited time, new Delta SkyMiles Business Card members can earn 200,000 bonus miles, the highest miles offer this year with a Delta SkyMiles Reserve Business American Express Card. Apply today at delta.com/podcast. Offer ends November 4th. Minimum spending requirements and terms apply.
42:26 Speaker 08 With ChatGPT, you can do more than get answers. You can get things done. Whether you're leading a big project, planning an elaborate trip, or trying to balance work and life, ChatGPT can help. Give it a goal, plus things like files, notes, or project plans. Develop a trip itinerary with daily updates or create a prioritized schedule so you can spend less energy sorting out the details and more on bringing your biggest ideas to life. Get started at chatgpt.com.
42:53 Speaker 09 Hey, it's Lunchbox from the Bobby Bones Show. Buy smart, drive for less, and trade for more. That's Toyota affordability and it starts with a great deal on an all-wheel-drive Camry, Corolla Cross, or a Corolla Sedan with the latest features in tech. Or test drive a spacious Grand Highlander or an adventure-ready RAV4. And with so many hybrid models available, you can enjoy longer trips without all the stops, while Toyota's legendary resale value means you could get more at trade-in. Get a deal today and great value tomorrow. Shop toyota.com for deals and details. Toyota, let's go places.
43:31 Speaker 00 OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 help make it happen fast. Rated A+ by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of five-star TrustPilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at ondeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval. This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.
Previous 402. Why trauma bonding feels so much like love ... Next 404. I want to do everything, so I do nothing Page updated October 30, 2026 · transcript and summary are machine-generated