Episode 5: The Charge

Donna drops a bombshell during her police interview. Two months after Rosslyn's sudden death, Ray asked Donna to live with him in a "husband and wife relationship". Her mother and stepfather are horrified. Ray tells his friend Evan Doherty that Donna had offered to live with him to repay him for his help to her. Evan doubts Ray's supposedly altruistic motives in relation to Donna. Donna endures an intrusive medical examination to test her claim to police that she has not had sex with Ray. After hours of questioning by homicide detectives, Ray is charged with murdering his wife. He maintains his innocence, telling detectives he loved Ros, was devoted to her and wouldn't do a thing to hurt her. Subscribers hear new episodes of The Poisoned Wife first. Listen atthepoisonedwife.com https://www.theaustralian.com.au/topics/the-poisoned-wife-podcast, in The Australian’s app or search for The Poisoned Wife on Apple Podcasts to connect your subscription. Join the conversation and hear more from Hedley Thomas inThe Poisoned Wife Podcast Official Discussion Group https://www.facebook.com/groups/thepoisonedwifepodcast/ on Facebook Do you know more? Contact the team at [email protected] See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Listeners are advised that this podcast contains coarse language and adult themes. The Poisoned Wife is a podcast investigation brought to you by me, Headley Thomas and The Australian. Subscribers to The Australian hear episodes first on The Australian's app at thepoisonedwife.com and Apple Podcasts.

• 0:35Speaker 01

  Every single piece of paper I got about this case you have now got.

• 0:39Speaker 02

  He would have known that she would have died a really painful death.

• 0:43Speaker 03

  She always wanted to be a mother, always.

• 0:47Speaker 04

  I didn't do it. I had nothing to do with Rosalind's death.

• 0:51Speaker 02

  I was a 16-year-old girl who had a crush on an older married man. I just think it's all so cruel.

• 1:00Speaker 00

  How would you have been trying to protect him?

• 1:10Speaker 00

  Studying the police brief of evidence has been like taking a step back in time, a time when policing involved a lot of manual, paper-based work. Word processing computers were still not standard issue in Victoria's police stations in mid-1986. But the basic way that the information was gathered and presented didn't appear to affect the quality of the policing. We've been able to bring this story to light and to share Ray McQueen's version through his signed police statement and extensive handwritten police notes. We're able to tell some of Roz's side of a tragic story too, through the evidence of her family and friends.

• 1:53Speaker 00

  But of course, there is another critical player in the unfolding narrative. The teenager, Donna Manalek. Donna would speak with police several times, and she gave evidence at the subsequent inquest into Roz's death. Donna told police that she found out Roz had died on the same day, Tuesday, April 1. She said her mum told her Roz had died, and that happened after one of the bus drivers from Kangaroo Flat Bus Lines phoned the Manalek home. In her police statements, Donna doesn't relate how she reacted. Perhaps she wasn't asked. By contrast, her cousin, Sandra Manalek, told police.

• 2:38Speaker 05

  I was shocked and saddened by the news. I wondered why it had happened. I did not know why.

• 2:45Speaker 00

  Sandra shared with police a conversation that she'd had with Donna the day after Roz's death, when she went around to visit.

• 2:53Speaker 05

  Donna said that it was strange because she had a dream a few nights before that Roz had died. In her dream, after Roz had died, her and Ray got together. I took that to mean they went together. She went on to say, "I mentioned to you ages ago that Roz had cancer, and I don't know if that is why she died."

• 3:11Speaker 00

  Exactly a week after Roz died, Roz's mother, Joy, minded Jody for the afternoon at a friend's home.

• 3:20Speaker 02

  When Ray came to collect Jody that evening, I was absolutely stunned when Donna walked in with him and the other children. Ray said that they'd all been out for tea.

• 3:30Speaker 00

  On June 3, Donna and her cousin Sandra went into Bendigo for lunch at a new Chinese restaurant. It was handily placed next door to Ray's office at National Mutual Insurance.

• 3:43Speaker 05

  I had said to Ray at one of our prior meetings that I would be in Bendigo this day. He sat down and had lunch with the two of us, and my cousin and I paid the bill for the three of us.

• 3:53Speaker 00

  When lunch was over, Sandra left to do other things, and Donna and Ray were left alone.

• 3:59Speaker 05

  I asked him if he wanted to talk to me here or some other place. He suggested a drive. We drove to the lake.

• 4:08Speaker 00

  It's just a few minutes north of the city centre, a place where locals and visitors go for walks and bike rides, picnics and ice creams. Karina did some laps around it during our stay there.

• 4:21Speaker 05

  Lake Maroonah is actually an old gold mining site, and back in the late 1800s, they decided to make this a recreation park so that people could come and just enjoy themselves in this beautiful space.

• 4:36Speaker 00

  Well, I can see why. There are people out on canoes, mums walking their babies. It's a pretty area, and the light's beautiful now. But in 1986, it was the backdrop for an extraordinary conversation. Sitting by the water, Ray made a proposal to Donna.

• 4:56Speaker 05

  He began by asking me what I wanted to do with my life. I said, "I didn't know." He asked me if I'd thought about it. I said, "Not a great deal." He said there was no way he was going to stay single. He was going to find someone else. He thought he'd already found her and that it was me. He would like me to go out and live with him at his house.

• 5:19Speaker 05

  He just didn't want a housemaid and someone to look after Jody. Someone to share a relationship with. Someone he could talk to and someone who could help him.

• 5:30Speaker 00

  Not quite a marriage proposal, but one that you would not expect a grieving widower to make so soon after the sudden death of his pregnant wife. Donna seemed caught off guard. This is where he asked her to come and live with him. He believed that they should be together.

• 5:51Speaker 05

  Donna places the conversation in early June, so it's about two months after Roz's death.

• 5:56Speaker 00

  Very soon before homicide detectives from Melbourne converged on Bendigo and began asking some very serious questions and circling Ray McQueen as the key suspect. And this is how Donna said in her statement to the police that the conversation unfolded from there.

• 6:15Speaker 05

  I said we'd have to talk it over with mum and dad. A couple of weeks went past, and I was trying to pick the right moment. He also wanted to be there.

• 6:24Speaker 00

  She knew her mother and stepfather wouldn't approve. She told Ray she couldn't go anywhere until she was 18, and that wouldn't be until May 1987, just shy of a year away. It was a long time to wait for a man who seemed in a big hurry. But Ray didn't appear put off by that delay. A year's wait didn't deter him. Donna and Ray made a decision, one they agreed they should talk over with Donna's parents, Glenys and Alf. When Ray knocked on their door that night, he hadn't been interviewed by police. Police still didn't know then the true cause of Roz's death. It was the calm before the storm.

• 7:09Speaker 00

  Glenys would later tell Detective Sergeant Max McDonald from the homicide squad that she had a feeling that Ray wanted to talk to them about something important that night. She found that Ray was unusually quiet for a while. Glenys had been struggling herself. As she put it to Detective McDonald, she had been suffering from very bad nerves and had twice been treated by a doctor.

• 7:36Speaker 05

  Ray asked mum if he made her feel uncomfortable. Mum said no. And Ray put the subject to mum and dad, and they rejected my living with him, as in husband and wife relationship.

• 7:48Speaker 00

  As Glenys told Detective McDonald.

• 7:51Speaker 02

  He said he knew I'd been sick and he may have been the cause of it. I said, "Yes, it was because of him and Donna. I was getting sick over it."

• 7:59Speaker 00

  Ray apologised, and he said that.

• 8:02Speaker 02

  He and Donna had a talk about it, and they'd come to a decision that Donna would go and live at Ray's place. Donna said she would not go until she was 18, but if we wanted her to go now, she would.

• 8:14Speaker 00

  There was no mistaking, as far as Glenys was concerned, what Ray was suggesting. Alf agreed with his wife. They were in no doubt about it when they related it to police. Alf told police that Ray was proposing a de facto husband-wife relationship. Alf was not having any of it.

• 8:35Speaker 06

  I made it quite clear to both of them that I would not permit it. I felt shocked, betrayed, and could not understand them. He had betrayed my friendship, my trust. The other aspect I could not understand was his wife had only been dead some 10 to 11 weeks.

• 8:56Speaker 05

  It didn't matter what I said. My parents' attitude did not change. The subject was dropped on that night, and Ray later told me to give them time.

• 9:05Speaker 00

  Glenys told police that when Ray came over and spoke about this idea, she was too upset to say or do anything, and so she sat there crying. None of it can have been good for her already shattered nerves. She was disgusted in the man she believed was their long-time family friend. Glenys added that she couldn't bring herself to talk to or even look at Ray. She concluded that he had abused their friendship.

• 9:36Speaker 03

  Saturday, June 28, 1986. Vin said that already 11 different detectives had been investigating. Meanwhile, they were still trying to find Strickneen.

• 9:46Speaker 00

  Yvonne Dixon was Ray and Rosalind's near neighbour in 1986. You heard her in episode 2. She was a committed diarist. These are her notes from those heady days when Bendigo was gripped by winter and a murder investigation.

• 10:04Speaker 03

  Ray was at work, on and off, and in and out of his house like a yo-yo.

• 10:09Speaker 00

  Ray had dinner with Evan Doherty and his wife Susan at their home. It was Saturday, June 28. He said that Donna had offered to go and live at the house. She wanted to give up her job and go and look after Jody. Ray projected this as being an offer by Donna to repay him for his help to her.

• 10:30Speaker 06

  There was no suggestion that Donna was to live with Ray in any heterosexual relationship. Ray said he could not allow her to give up her job, so I was left with the impression that Ray was not going to accept the offer.

• 10:43Speaker 00

  Evan was a builder. He'd known Ray for about 10 years, from back when Ray and his first wife Jeanette were wheat farmers at Beulah. Evan regarded Ray as a self-centred person who tended to look after himself first and foremost. He noticed that Ray placed Donna a firm second to himself, something he didn't do with anyone else. Evan found this so out of character for Ray that it made him question what Ray was saying about his relationship with Donna. Evan's wife, Susan, was Jeanette's cousin.

• 11:22Speaker 00

  After Jeanette and Ray's separation, Evan and Susan started hanging out with Ray and his new wife Roz. They had been the only friends to go to Roz and Ray's wedding. Evan later told Detective Senior Sergeant Ron Blackshaw that he formed a view that money was tight in the McQueen household. Evan also noticed that Ray and Roz had sold a late-model van, and they'd replaced it with a much older vehicle.

• 11:53Speaker 06

  She was not her usual happy-go-lucky self. She was obviously upset about the financial side of things, especially with the baby coming. It was obvious to me that there was considerable stress on the McQueen marriage.

• 12:07Speaker 00

  Evan told police that he did know Donna. He had been introduced to her by Ray during the previous summer when they went water skiing.

• 12:16Speaker 06

  From this time on, I noticed that Donna was in Ray's company quite a bit. Ray always said she never got on with her parents, but she would relate to him. He was especially attentive to Donna. For example, when she got out of the car, he would wait so that they could walk together. He had more patience with her than he had with anyone else. I had my private doubts about Ray's motives.

• 12:41Speaker 00

  But the detectives were not under any illusion. Detective Sergeant Furlong took the highly unusual investigative step of asking Donna if she was prepared to have a medical examination. The idea was to try to confirm whether she was, as she had been insisting, a virgin.

• 13:01Speaker 03

  Donna removed from Kmart by two detectives. Detectives were interviewing all people Ray had seen about insurance, another public appeal on TV for helping locating contents of strychnine.

• 13:13Speaker 00

  Yvonne Dixon had good sources in the small community of Lockwood outside Bendigo. As her diary from that time shows, Yvonne knew within hours that Donna had agreed to undergo an internal examination.

• 13:28Speaker 03

  Donna being examined by a police doctor for virginity or not.

• 13:32Speaker 00

  The detectives drove her to the Bendigo Base Hospital. Donna claimed Ray had given her only two kisses on the lips, and that things hadn't gone further. Ray had denied that they'd even kissed before Roz's death, let alone done anything else. He did admit to police that they'd kissed passionately after Roz's death. The so-called virginity testing was undertaken by Dr Peter Crossley from the casualty department. Dr Crossley had examined Roz's body and certified her death three months earlier to the day. There's a redaction or blacked-out section in Dr Crossley's short statement.

• 14:17Speaker 00

  We do know that Dr Crossley advised police that there was no evidence to suggest that Donna's claim to be a virgin was untrue. Her written statements don't mention the examination, an intimidating and harrowing experience for her. You'll hear more about this so-called virginity testing in another episode.

• 14:41Speaker 00

  Donna sat down with police again. She spoke openly about Ray, about how she felt and about the hold that he still had over her. By then, her world had been turned upside down. A homicide investigation had consumed everyone around her. Most people would have run from the chaos and the scrutiny from him, but somehow, none of it had broken the spell. Not Roz's death, not the detectives, not the threat of spending the rest of his life behind bars, hanging over Ray's head. If anything, the spell seemed stronger.

• 15:20Speaker 00

  To the detectives' listing that day, one thing had become unmistakably obvious: Donna was utterly, hopelessly devoted to Ray.

• 15:32Speaker 00

  As you heard in episode one, Donna told police.

• 15:37Speaker 05

  I realised I loved Ray from about 12 months ago. That's the reason I spent so much time with him. I wanted to be with him all the time. I am still in love with him, and as soon as I turn 18, I'll go away with him, live with him, go anywhere he wants me to. The only reason why I'm waiting till my 18th birthday is because of my promise to my parents.

• 16:02Speaker 00

  There are 40 typed pages comprising the interview between the relentlessly thorough homicide detective Ron Blackshaw and the Bendigo widower, Ray McQueen. They were prepared from notes handwritten by the detective during the interview. So far, we've covered about half of it. The police officer was a little older. They were both the fathers of young children, but it is difficult to imagine these two being friends. Reading the transcript and some of their exchanges, I can almost hear the disbelief and, at times, derision in the cop who has to try to solve the probable murder of a dedicated young mum who died in agony.

• 16:45Speaker 01

  What happened when you got home from tennis that Monday night?

• 16:49Speaker 00

  At the end of episode three, you heard Donna's evidence about what she had told Ray McQueen at tennis on that Monday evening. Donna spoke of Roz's concerns that Ray was going to divorce her. Here's a reminder.

• 17:05Speaker 05

  I told him what Roz had said and that she was upset. He was very shocked at what I'd told him. He then asked, who had told me? I told him that I'd spoken to Roz. I then said he should sit her down, talk to her about it, and tell her how much he loved her. He replied, yes, I shall talk to her when I go home.

• 17:26Speaker 00

  Ray's 30-year-old wife and the 16-year-old girl were friends, but they were both in love with Ray. Roz believed that Ray wanted to be with Donna. Roz did not appear to show any ill will towards the teenager. It is likely that Roz told Donna things at a time when Roz didn't know that Donna had a heavy crush on Ray, and we don't know whether Roz wanted Donna to pass these things on to Ray. Perhaps communications between Roz and Ray were so bad that Donna was being used as a conduit.

• 18:05Speaker 00

  But Detective Senior Sergeant Ron Blackshaw suspected that the conversation between Donna and Ray at tennis on the Monday was the final straw. If Ray was the wife-killer that the police investigation would make him out to be, was the decision to kill Roz triggered by that brief conversation in which the teenager told Ray that his wife was bracing for a divorce? Here's how Ray answered the question about events after Monday's tennis.

• 18:38Speaker 04

  It was about 5pm that I got home. Roz was still asleep.

• 18:44Speaker 00

  After multiple questions which got Ray talking about his first wife Jeanette, the failure of their marriage, and Ray's anger over what he regarded as an unfair property settlement, the last 12 hours or so of the life of his second wife Roz are now finally in focus. Ron Blackshaw must have been all ears.

• 19:07Speaker 04

  I did the outside chores, milked the goat, lit the fires, and when I came inside, she was awake. Roz prepared tea and we had tea together. I had arranged with the guy that I work with to do some cold calling on Easter Tuesday.

• 19:24Speaker 01

  What's that?

• 19:26Speaker 04

  Door knocking.

• 19:28Speaker 00

  Ray worked for the National Mutual Insurance Company, and he explained that its district sales manager had passed on a tip.

• 19:36Speaker 04

  He had told us it was a good idea to do that on public holidays, because people were receptive, in a receptive mood, in a relaxed atmosphere.

• 19:46Speaker 00

  And Ray had a new lead: Cameron Twining, a potential purchaser of a life insurance policy. A young man who lived in Maiden Gully, about a 20-minute drive from the office. He had been away in Ballarat on a training course for his employer Telecom, but he would be back in Bendigo for the Easter long weekend.

• 20:08Speaker 04

  I made a phone call on the Monday night. I got details of his age. I was talking to his mother. I wrote all the details down on a pad beside the phone. I did a bit of bookwork at home.

• 20:21Speaker 00

  Ray said he went to bed sometime between 10 and 10.30pm while Roz was still up watching TV.

• 20:29Speaker 01

  What time did you come to bed?

• 20:31Speaker 04

  I don't know.

• 20:32Speaker 01

  Are you serious?

• 20:33Speaker 04

  Yes. She came to bed after me and then was up before me. I don't know.

• 20:40Speaker 01

  Are you saying there's a possibility that she was up all night and didn't come to bed?

• 20:44Speaker 04

  There is a possibility. I don't know.

• 20:48Speaker 01

  You said earlier that your wife had suffered dizzy spells that day, is that right?

• 20:51Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 20:52Speaker 01

  Weren't you concerned to make sure that your wife got some rest?

• 20:56Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 20:57Speaker 01

  Well, did you ask her if she was all right, or over her dizzy spells or slept well?

• 21:02Speaker 04

  Not really.

• 21:04Speaker 00

  Ray and Roz were distant, emotionally and physically. The next morning, Ray arose, as he told the detective, at 6am. Roz was not in the marital bed. She wasn't there when Ray went to sleep, and she wasn't in it when Ray got up, he said.

• 21:23Speaker 04

  I don't know how long she was up. I got up, did my chores outside, put my old clothes on, came back inside, got my breakfast.

• 21:33Speaker 01

  Did you have breakfast with Rosalyn?

• 21:35Speaker 04

  No.

• 21:36Speaker 01

  Do you normally have breakfast with your wife?

• 21:38Speaker 04

  Very rarely ever have breakfast.

• 21:42Speaker 00

  But on this fateful day, Ray confirmed that he did have breakfast. The detective wanted to know what Ray ate. It was a bowl of cereal, he said, a couple of slices of toast and a cup of tea.

• 21:54Speaker 01

  What does Rosalyn have?

• 21:56Speaker 04

  She never has any set thing.

• 21:59Speaker 00

  Sometimes, he added, she would have stewed fruits, sometimes cereal, sometimes a combination of stewed fruit and cereal.

• 22:08Speaker 04

  And sometimes she would just have a slice of toast.

• 22:11Speaker 01

  Were there any remnants of a breakfast that Rosalyn may have eaten?

• 22:15Speaker 04

  There was absolutely nothing on the table.

• 22:19Speaker 01

  Was there anything on the sink or in the dishwasher which would indicate to you that your wife had eaten breakfast?

• 22:25Speaker 04

  There were dishes on the sink and dishes in the dishwasher.

• 22:29Speaker 01

  Was that an indication to you that she had had breakfast?

• 22:32Speaker 04

  No.

• 22:34Speaker 00

  Ray said that when he came back inside the house after having done his chores that morning, Roz was...

• 22:40Speaker 04

  Just sitting at the table in a dressing gown.

• 22:43Speaker 01

  And then what happened?

• 22:45Speaker 04

  I had breakfast, had a shower, I picked up my books and a little computer I always carry around with me. Just like every morning, I put my arm around her and kissed her goodbye. She was just sitting at the table. It was only small talk in the morning. Breakfast time.

• 23:04Speaker 01

  Was Rosalyn all right when you left that morning?

• 23:07Speaker 04

  Yes, well, she wasn't talking very much.

• 23:12Speaker 00

  Ray said he assumed that Jody was still asleep.

• 23:16Speaker 01

  So don't you check on Jody before you leave the house?

• 23:19Speaker 04

  I sometimes go and check her. She sleeps lightly.

• 23:23Speaker 00

  On this morning, however, Ray said he didn't check on the toddler. He told the detective that it would have been 8am when he drove away from the house.

• 23:33Speaker 01

  So you left your home and drove to work on your own, did you?

• 23:36Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 23:37Speaker 01

  Is there anyone you saw on the way or you spoke to at this time?

• 23:41Speaker 04

  No, I went straight to work on my own.

• 23:45Speaker 00

  Ray said he did some paperwork in the office where he was the only one there until Graham Jenkin turned up and they talked about the lead they were going to pursue that day. And it was at that point that Ray realised, he told the detective, that he was missing something. Ray described it as the details for a quote that he wanted to give the insurance prospect. Cameron Twining, the young bloke west of town at Maiden Gully. Basic things, including details of the young bloke's age. Ray did not specifically say to Blackshaw that he intended to go and knock on Twining's door that Easter Tuesday.

• 24:26Speaker 00

  But by the same token, Ray did not say that he was not going out there either. Ray did insist that he needed the details that he wrote down on the pad at home for what he described as a computer form and computer quote.

• 24:43Speaker 04

  On a number of occasions, I've left things on the notepad beside the phone. I rang Roz to get the details for me. There was no answer. I thought, well, she's either outside or having a shower, so I just left it for 15 minutes. I rang back, there was no answer. I kept trying Roz. I couldn't get Roz. And she had made no mention of coming to Bendigo in the morning. If she had been in Bendigo, it would have been earlier than she would normally come in anyway. I rang Vin Mackenzie, my neighbour, just to go down and see if her car was still in the carport.

• 25:27Speaker 04

  Vin went down and found the car in the carport.

• 25:31Speaker 00

  Sometimes, while poring over the entrails of a cold case and examining the transcript pages of the police interviews with persons of interest, you can get a mental picture of the room they're sitting in and you inevitably form a view about the experience and professionalism of the detective leading the questioning. As a questioner, Detective Senior Sergeant Ron Blackshaw presents as a confident pro. He was listening to Ray's answers and shaping new questions based on what came out of Ray's mouth. The cop left little out. He was all over Ray McQueen like a dangerous rash.

• 26:12Speaker 01

  Why did you get Vin to go down and see if the car was in the carport?

• 26:16Speaker 04

  Well, because if Rosalyn's car wasn't there, I would know she was out.

• 26:21Speaker 01

  Assuming Rosalyn's car is there, it still doesn't get the documents for you, does it?

• 26:25Speaker 04

  No.

• 26:26Speaker 01

  How long do you think it would take Vin Mackenzie to get himself organised to go to your place, get back and ring you?

• 26:32Speaker 04

  About 10 to 15 minutes.

• 26:34Speaker 01

  And then if the car was out, you still haven't got your documents, have you?

• 26:38Speaker 04

  No.

• 26:39Speaker 01

  So the only way you're going to get your documents is to go out to the house and get them, isn't it?

• 26:43Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 26:45Speaker 01

  Why didn't you jump in the car and get your documents?

• 26:47Speaker 04

  Well, the phone call was quicker than the car.

• 26:50Speaker 01

  But Rosalyn's not answering the phone. As far as you were concerned, she's not there, isn't that right?

• 26:56Speaker 04

  What do you mean she's not there?

• 26:57Speaker 01

  Well, if she was there, she would answer the phone, wouldn't she?

• 27:01Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 27:02Speaker 01

  Because she didn't answer the phone, did you think she wasn't there?

• 27:05Speaker 04

  I just asked Vinnie to go down and if the car wasn't there, I was going to ring mum to see if she was in at mum's. That's where she always heads to first, was to mum's.

• 27:17Speaker 01

  How's that going to get you documents that you say were next to the phone at Lockwood?

• 27:21Speaker 04

  It's not, not in any way.

• 27:24Speaker 01

  But that's your object in ringing, isn't it?

• 27:27Speaker 04

  Right.

• 27:28Speaker 00

  The detective had a view of Ray McQueen. He plainly suspected that Ray had killed Roz in a case of premeditated murder and that the documents were not forgotten but left behind deliberately so that Ray would have some sort of justification to telephone Vin and have his neighbour check on Roz. Ron Blackshaw believed that Ray knew Roz was dead when Ray telephoned the house and then called Vin to ask him about Roz. The theory the detective had warmed to was that Ray would not have wanted his daughter Jody to be exposed to the macabre scene for longer than was absolutely necessary.

• 28:10Speaker 00

  Ray definitely did not want Jody to be on her own in the house all day with her mother's body slumped across a chair. So he used Vin as the unknowing good Samaritan to discover the terrible scene. It's important to emphasise that this was and is the theory. The evidence was circumstantial. Ron Blackshaw's questioning of Ray about his story of the documents and Roz not picking up the phone and then the contact with Vin was the detective stress testing the claims.

• 28:45Speaker 01

  Mr McQueen, I put it to you that with all the phone calls and the time it would take Vin Mackenzie to do what you asked him to do, it would be quicker for you to get in your car, go to Lockwood and get the documents.

• 28:55Speaker 04

  No, that would be probably half an hour to go out, get it and get back.

• 29:02Speaker 01

  I put it to you that you wanted Mackenzie to go into your house that morning.

• 29:05Speaker 04

  Why? I, I don't see what you're getting at. For what reason would I want him to do that?

• 29:11Speaker 01

  Simply because your child, Jody, was in the house with your wife's dead body, which had to be discovered.

• 29:16Speaker 04

  I didn't know.

• 29:17Speaker 01

  No?

• 29:18Speaker 04

  You were accusing me or something?

• 29:21Speaker 01

  Now, you were prepared to send Mackenzie down to find your wife.

• 29:24Speaker 04

  Not to find her like that. I had nothing to do with the death of my wife.

• 29:30Speaker 01

  Well, how were things between you and your wife in the days and weeks leading to her death?

• 29:35Speaker 04

  We were not talking like we normally could have talked.

• 29:38Speaker 01

  Would you say things were perhaps a bit bad between you?

• 29:42Speaker 04

  Roz and I sat down and talked at length. There was no suggestion of any move toward a marriage breakup.

• 30:13Speaker 00

  The detective asked Ray to elaborate further on the last few weeks of his relationship, his marriage with Roz. Ray described it in two words: very quiet.

• 30:26Speaker 01

  I don't understand what you mean by quiet.

• 30:29Speaker 04

  We hadn't been able to discuss things as we normally would.

• 30:34Speaker 01

  Was there any talk of divorce?

• 30:36Speaker 04

  No, I've never mentioned divorce. Roz may have told people.

• 30:41Speaker 01

  Are you saying that you have not considered divorcing Rosalyn?

• 30:45Speaker 04

  Yes, I've never considered divorcing her.

• 30:49Speaker 00

  Ron Blackshaw circled back to Ray's dealings with Family Law after he had separated from his first wife, Jeanette. He asked Ray to tell him about it again.

• 31:01Speaker 04

  Yes, I don't think it is fair, the way they settle property and things. I had to be prepared to accept what the judge determined was fair. I know that things had to be left in the home for the family. I lost more than half of my property.

• 31:16Speaker 01

  Do you think you could have gone through another property settlement if your second marriage to Rosalyn ended in divorce?

• 31:22Speaker 04

  There was no suggestion of that. There was no threat at all to the marriage.

• 31:27Speaker 01

  Well, the thing is that Rosalyn thought that there was some chance of divorce.

• 31:31Speaker 04

  I know she did.

• 31:32Speaker 01

  And the worry of divorce was held by Rosalyn for about six months prior to her death, wasn't it?

• 31:37Speaker 04

  She had talked to my mother about it, yes. I had never said anything that would make her think I would divorce her.

• 31:46Speaker 01

  And I further put it to you that her concern was that Donna Manalek was a threat to your marriage.

• 31:51Speaker 04

  Yep, we talked about it.

• 31:53Speaker 01

  As recently as Monday, the day before your wife's death, we've been told of a conversation that took place between you and Donna Manalek. So we have a period of six months where Rosalyn is considering the marriage is threatened. It's also said that you became upset when told by Donna that Rosalyn had approached her with her fears.

• 32:11Speaker 04

  I can't remember that conversation.

• 32:13Speaker 01

  Do you remember becoming angry during any conversation with Donna Manalek on the Monday prior to your wife's death?

• 32:19Speaker 04

  No, I didn't get angry at all.

• 32:23Speaker 01

  May I read to you from a statement made by Donna Manalek?

• 32:26Speaker 04

  Yes, go ahead.

• 32:28Speaker 00

  The detective went to page nine of the statement given a few days earlier by Donna. She had very recently turned 17.

• 32:39Speaker 05

  About two weeks before Roz died, I went to a barbecue at Ray's place with my mum and dad. While I was there, Roz said to me, I don't know what to do. I find it very hard to talk to him and it seems like he doesn't want to listen. I'm scared that he's going to want to divorce me. I then said to her, don't be stupid. You're the only thing he's got and he loves you.

• 33:04Speaker 00

  The third paragraph was Donna's account of what she had told Ray about it at tennis on the Monday. You heard it earlier.

• 33:12Speaker 01

  Do you agree with that account of your conversation with Donna Manalek at tennis on the Monday just prior to your wife's death? That was the day before.

• 33:19Speaker 04

  Yes, I do.

• 33:21Speaker 01

  Did you take the matter up with your wife?

• 33:23Speaker 04

  I don't know.

• 33:25Speaker 01

  Did you speak to her about it when you got home?

• 33:27Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 33:28Speaker 01

  And what did you say to her?

• 33:30Speaker 04

  We just discussed it like we had discussed it before, that there was no need to worry about anything.

• 33:36Speaker 01

  And what did your wife have to say?

• 33:38Speaker 04

  Nothing really. She seemed to accept what I told her.

• 33:42Speaker 01

  And what did you tell her?

• 33:44Speaker 04

  Just that there was nothing at all between Donna and I.

• 33:49Speaker 01

  Were you concerned that your wife had approached Donna Manalek with her fears?

• 33:53Speaker 04

  No, she can talk to whoever she likes. And Donna was a friend of Rozlan's.

• 34:00Speaker 01

  Did your mother ever approach you and ask you about your relationship with Donna Manalek?

• 34:04Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 34:05Speaker 01

  What were the circumstances of this approach?

• 34:08Speaker 04

  Rozlan had gone to my mother and said she was worried that I was taking too much notice of Donna. I said that I was just teaching her tennis and helping her, and that was true.

• 34:20Speaker 01

  But your mother was concerned?

• 34:22Speaker 04

  Yes, but only because of what Rozlan had told her.

• 34:27Speaker 01

  Do you know anything about strychnine poison?

• 34:30Speaker 00

  It was a killer question. Did Ray McQueen stare it down? Or did he flinch? His interview in the Bendigo CIB occurred a few years before Victoria Police started video recording suspects in serious crimes. In the absence of the technology, disagreements and legal challenges about what had been purportedly said or admitted in the interview room were routine. But with the advent of the video camera, police, prosecutors, defence lawyers and suspects could go back afterwards, play the tape and watch and hear everything. The body language of suspects during questioning

• 35:11Speaker 00

  from seasoned detectives such as Ron Blackshaw was studied too. Videotaped interviews became the norm. The footage protected police from false smears. Suspects were protected from false confessions. But in July 1986, we know that there were no cameras inside the Bendigo CIB. There is no videotape of Ray McQueen's interview. The detectives took handwritten notes. How he looked when asked the question about his personal knowledge, if any, of the poison which had killed his wife remains a mystery. McQueen replied,

• 35:51Speaker 04

  No, I had no idea about it at all. As you can understand, I've talked about it since. I've had nothing to do with strychnine whatsoever.

• 36:01Speaker 01

  Nothing whatsoever?

• 36:03Speaker 04

  Right.

• 36:04Speaker 01

  You come from the land, don't you?

• 36:07Speaker 04

  Yes. Does everybody that comes from the land know what strychnine does? I know it was a deadly poison. That's all I know about it.

• 36:17Speaker 00

  Now, we are going to take a brief break from the homicide detective's questioning of Ray McQueen. Because with that mention of strychnine, it's a good opportunity to share some parts of my conversations with two very helpful women, both of whom knew Ray. On my first visit to interview Debbie Weegard about Ray and Donna's time together at the tennis club, Debbie told me about her elderly friend with deep ties to the McQueen family. Ties that went right back to when Ray was a boy and then a young man working on his parents' farm in Beulah.

• 36:58Speaker 02

  And I'd played bowls with this lady. She rang me and she said, my husband owned the chemical place in Beulah. And the police interviewed her husband at the time.

• 37:10Speaker 00

  As Rex and I sat at her kitchen table, Debbie made a call and then she left a message for her friend. When she rang back, they started chatting.

• 37:23Speaker 02

  Oh, I'm good. Look, I'll tell you what I'm ringing about. I've got two gentlemen here and they are doing a bit of researching on Ray. Ray McQueen. And they're wondering whether they could come and have a word with you. But they just really want to just know more in the background of them. So can they call around and see you? Yes, where? Now? Oh, yes, yes. You tell them I'm a real old girl? I said that you're a very old lady, that my mind's switched on, really switched on.

• 38:06Speaker 02

  I'll send these guys on their merry way. Righto. Okay, see ya.

• 38:11Speaker 00

  What a good old stick. Twenty minutes later, Rex and I were back in Kangaroo Flat and talking to Debbie's friend, who is in her 90th year. She still plays piano for a local church service. She was happy to talk, but asked us to leave her name out of the storytelling. Her voice would be fine, just not her full name. So we are going to call her Anne. Anne's home for half a century was Beulah, the small southern Malle town where the McQueens were once deeply rooted. Tourism guides describe Beulah today as an oasis in the heart of Victoria's wheat belt.

• 38:53Speaker 05

  Of course, a lot of kids those days came home on the farm and mum and dad went to town. But today, none of them come home on the farm. They get out and make a new life for themselves. They don't seem to think there's enough in farming.

• 39:12Speaker 00

  When Anne's husband started having health problems, they left too. They retired to the big smoke of Bendigo, just over 200 kilometres southeast of the town in which they'd run their business and raised their family.

• 39:27Speaker 05

  When you live in Beulah, you don't have a doctor.

• 39:31Speaker 00

  But Beulah does have a place in Australian cinema thanks to the author Jane Harper and film director and writer Robert Connolly. His hit movie, The Dry, starring Eric Banner as a federal agent returning to his hometown to try to solve a murder mystery, was filmed in and around Beulah. It was a great movie with some killer lines. You're convinced he did it. What do you think?

• 40:02Speaker 00

  Why would I lie? When you've been lying about something this... So long. It becomes second nature. Under the Milky Way tonight.

• 40:16Speaker 00

  Beulah's main street, buildings, cemetery, and the unforgiving bush landscape all around got global screen attention. Good life when you were there?

• 40:27Speaker 02

  Oh, loved it. Oh, yes. Wonderful life. Forty-nine and a half years I had in Beulah. Wonderful life. I was there a fortnight ago. But we don't go back very often. I went for a funeral. They're the only things I go back for now.

• 40:46Speaker 00

  But there's no pub or supermarket anymore?

• 40:48Speaker 02

  No, that was sad. The pub closed down in Covid and it never reopened. Had a state bank, a chemist's shop, an estate agent, a newsagent, a bank, a cafe, all closed on that side. And this side had a bank. It had a butcher. It had a florist shop. It had a baker. It had a hairdresser. No, there's nothing in the street and the store burnt down.

• 41:20Speaker 00

  Anne and her husband were good friends with Ray McQueen's father, Kevin, and Ray's mother, Beryl.

• 41:27Speaker 02

  Very good family. Good living family, went to church every Sunday. Very well regarded. They were a generational family of McQueens. The grandfather had the farm. Split it up for the sons. Ray's father, another one Ron, and another one Alan. I don't know terribly much about what happened to Ray in Bendigo, but we did still visit Beryl and Kevin. He was in the lodge, the Masons'. He was very, very keen on the lodge, Kevin. And, well, I suppose you would say a good friend of my husband's.

• 42:10Speaker 02

  My husband was in the grand lodge team of Victoria in 1977. Beryl and Kevin always came with us.

• 42:21Speaker 00

  Anne is referring to Freemasonry, once a rigidly structured fraternal network of members who looked out for each other. In the 1970s, in Victoria, it was a formal and influential secretive society. Only men could become masons. They practised symbolic rituals. There were secret handshakes. And they lived by foundational tenets like loyalty and mutual protection. Anne told me that Ray's parents, Kevin and Beryl McQueen, backed Ray to the hilt when he was accused of having murdered Roz.

• 42:59Speaker 02

  They stood by Ray, no worries about that. They thought he was innocent as the word.

• 43:07Speaker 00

  In 1986, the homicide squad's probe into Roz McQueen's murder led to Anne's husband being questioned about sales of strychnine at his rural supplies business.

• 43:19Speaker 02

  He was approached at the time to go through his poisons book to see if he'd sold McQueen's strychnine whenever. He'd just write the people's names in what they bought. It was just an exercise book. He sold a lot of poisons because mice plagues.

• 43:40Speaker 00

  So do you recall what the result was when your husband was asked?

• 43:45Speaker 02

  He couldn't find it.

• 43:47Speaker 00

  Couldn't find what?

• 43:48Speaker 02

  Where they'd bought it. It's a very interesting case for Beulah, in case you don't realise.

• 43:56Speaker 00

  Because of the McQueen connection?

• 43:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, yes, yes.

• 43:59Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 43:59Speaker 02

  It was hot news at the time, yes.

• 44:04Speaker 00

  Lots of rumours?

• 44:05Speaker 02

  Oh, yes, yes. How could he do it? How did he do it?

• 44:09Speaker 00

  That suggests that there was an assumption that he had done it.

• 44:13Speaker 02

  An assumption of a query, had he or hadn't he? I don't comment on that really because it is just so unbelievable. A shocking, shocking thing. That I'm quite sure she was poisoned.

• 44:32Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 44:33Speaker 02

  Just how it got into her, I can't tell you that.

• 44:37Speaker 00

  Now, let's go back to Detective Senior Sergeant Ron Blackshaw's interview in 1986 with the then murder suspect, Ray McQueen.

• 44:47Speaker 01

  What dealings have you had with poisons?

• 44:50Speaker 04

  Weed killer, insecticides, spraying grain and spraying crops and rat sack.

• 44:56Speaker 01

  What poisons have you dealt with since you moved to Bendigo?

• 45:00Speaker 04

  Only rat sack and weed killer and insecticide for spraying apple trees.

• 45:05Speaker 01

  Have you ever seen any poisons around your property at Lockwood?

• 45:08Speaker 04

  No poison apart from what I said.

• 45:11Speaker 01

  Do you know of any person who has laid poison in the Lockwood area?

• 45:15Speaker 04

  No, not to my knowledge.

• 45:18Speaker 01

  Have you seen any poisons in existence out at Lockwood for any vermin or for any other reason whatsoever?

• 45:24Speaker 04

  No, absolutely not.

• 45:27Speaker 01

  Has poison ever been mentioned at Lockwood for any vermin or for any other reason whatsoever?

• 45:31Speaker 04

  There has been mention at Lockwood for any vermin. It has been mentioned.

• 45:38Speaker 00

  Finally, an opening, a chink in the wall. The detective could guess what Ray was about to disclose. Other witnesses had already shared with police what Ray had told them about his older neighbour.

• 45:54Speaker 01

  Would you tell me more?

• 45:56Speaker 04

  It was mentioned by Vin Mackenzie, by Peter Dixon.

• 46:01Speaker 01

  What did Dixon say?

• 46:03Speaker 04

  Dixon said that last year, well, he said that Mackenzie was very crook for two or three months. He wouldn't go to the doctor or anything about his illness and couldn't eat anything without throwing it up. I used to borrow his slasher and rotary hoe. And Peter Dixon used to borrow it. And Peter used it to slash between his fruit trees and he wrecked the power shaft on it. He took it back to Mackenzie and told him. Vin was not happy about the damage and had a big blue with Peter Dixon and his wife. He went crook at the kids and everything. Peter came down and told me that Vin Mackenzie had told them

• 46:48Speaker 04

  that he had got enough strychnine up there to do a lot of damage.

• 46:54Speaker 01

  Are you quite sure that was said?

• 46:56Speaker 04

  Yeah. And Peter Dixon followed that up by saying, I wouldn't trust that old bugger.

• 47:02Speaker 01

  So you have in your mind that Vin Mackenzie has possession or at least access to strychnine in his house? Is that correct?

• 47:09Speaker 04

  You could say that, yes.

• 47:12Speaker 01

  Are you suggesting that Vin Mackenzie could be a possible source for the strychnine that killed your wife?

• 47:17Speaker 04

  It could be. I wouldn't put it past him.

• 47:21Speaker 01

  Has Mackenzie ever made a threat to any of your family?

• 47:24Speaker 04

  No. He's just a bit strange.

• 47:28Speaker 01

  Let me point out to you the seriousness of what you've just said. Are you actually telling me that you suspect Mackenzie of being the source of the poison that killed your wife?

• 47:36Speaker 04

  No. I'm saying that I wouldn't put it past him. That's all.

• 47:42Speaker 01

  But can you tell me why you say that?

• 47:44Speaker 04

  Just because I believe that he had it, that's why.

• 47:48Speaker 01

  And did you have knowledge or belief that Mackenzie had the poison and was strange before your wife died?

• 47:54Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 47:54Speaker 01

  Why didn't you mention this before?

• 47:57Speaker 04

  I didn't want to say anything before.

• 47:59Speaker 01

  Mr. McQueen, your wife was killed by the administration of the poison strychnine. Surely you would realise the importance of what you've just told me?

• 48:07Speaker 04

  Yes, I do. It was something I just thought and didn't say till now.

• 48:13Speaker 00

  The homicide cop didn't believe him.

• 48:16Speaker 01

  If you had the belief that Mackenzie was strange, why did you ask him to go down to your house and check on your wife?

• 48:23Speaker 04

  I just asked him to see if the car was there.

• 48:25Speaker 01

  If you had those thoughts about Mackenzie, don't you think you would be placing your wife in jeopardy by sending Mackenzie to check on her?

• 48:32Speaker 04

  I didn't ask him to go into the house.

• 48:35Speaker 01

  Mr. McQueen, you tell me that you believed Mackenzie had the strychnine, is that correct?

• 48:39Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 48:40Speaker 01

  Mackenzie went to your house at your request, didn't he?

• 48:44Speaker 04

  No.

• 48:45Speaker 01

  Did you make a telephone call to him or not?

• 48:47Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 48:48Speaker 01

  All right, well, your wife died of strychnine poisoning.

• 48:51Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 48:51Speaker 01

  And Mackenzie is known to you to have possession of strychnine, is that right?

• 48:55Speaker 04

  Yes. That's what I was told anyway.

• 48:59Speaker 01

  Now, have you ever seen strychnine before?

• 49:01Speaker 04

  I have never seen strychnine before.

• 49:04Speaker 01

  But do you know what it looks like?

• 49:05Speaker 04

  Yes, because I've asked people what it is. I didn't know if it was a liquid or powder or tablet. I have been told that it is a powder, a fine powder.

• 49:19Speaker 01

  Who told you that?

• 49:20Speaker 04

  My father.

• 49:22Speaker 00

  Ray McQueen said he had also been told by another life insurance agent, Max Henderson, who had some experience with strychnine. The detective changed gears.

• 49:34Speaker 01

  There is another matter, your wife having cancer. Have you told anyone else that your wife had cancer?

• 49:39Speaker 04

  Roz told people herself.

• 49:42Speaker 01

  I have information that you made issue with certain people that your wife had cancer?

• 49:47Speaker 04

  I had been told that she had a growth that could turn cancerous.

• 49:51Speaker 01

  Who told you that?

• 49:52Speaker 04

  Dr. King told me.

• 49:54Speaker 01

  What else were you told about this?

• 49:56Speaker 04

  Nothing, really.

• 49:57Speaker 01

  Nothing else at all?

• 49:59Speaker 04

  I'd been told that cauterising could cure it. There was a 90% chance of a cure.

• 50:06Speaker 01

  Did you ever suggest to anyone that your wife may have died of cancer?

• 50:10Speaker 04

  No. She had been to the doctor on the Thursday before Good Friday. We told our friends at Red Cliffs when we were up there at Easter. And we told people after we got back, on the Easter and Sunday and Monday. I know there was no threat at all from cancer.

• 50:31Speaker 00

  In the interview room at Bendigo Police Station, Detective Senior Sergeant Ron Blackshaw asked Ray McQueen about financial motives.

• 50:40Speaker 01

  Do you stand to gain financially from your wife's death?

• 50:44Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 50:46Speaker 01

  How much?

• 50:47Speaker 04

  Fifteen thousand to seventeen thousand. I've already received about five thousand on an interim death certificate, so it would be about ten thousand to twelve thousand perhaps.

• 51:01Speaker 01

  Was the insurance on Rosalind's life increased recently?

• 51:05Speaker 04

  I didn't apply to update the insurance on her life.

• 51:08Speaker 01

  What were the circumstances?

• 51:11Speaker 04

  We had talked about it eighteen months ago, before I even started in life insurance. We talked about it off and on.

• 51:19Speaker 01

  But you actually upgraded the insurance on your wife's life recently, didn't you?

• 51:23Speaker 04

  Yeah, since I've started with National Mutual and that, since August of last year. That was because I understand life insurance a bit better.

• 51:34Speaker 00

  It was a telling but also perplexing exchange. McQueen initially said that he had not applied to update the insurance on Rosalind's life. And then, when the detective put to him that he recently had upgraded the insurance on Rosalind's life, Ray confirmed that was true. He had. So had the insurance salesman lied the first time and then come clean when it was obvious the detective already knew what had happened? The detective didn't press Ray further on this. In the 1980s in Victoria, there was a designation called the Police Surgeon, and he or she was a doctor with skills in clinical forensic medicine,

• 52:19Speaker 00

  employed by police. Surgery was not part of the job. The role included looking after vulnerable people who appeared traumatised. It included examining certain victims of sensitive crimes, crimes such as rape. Children who had been witnesses or victims of violent crime were often assessed by the Police Surgeon.

• 52:43Speaker 01

  Are you aware that I have requested that your daughter Jodie be interviewed by the Police Surgeon to see if she can throw any light on the events which occurred at your home at Lockwood on April 1, 1986?

• 52:54Speaker 04

  Yes, I discussed that with my mother, and she didn't think it was a good idea for Jodie to be interrogated like that. She did not think it should be done.

• 53:04Speaker 01

  Well, you were the child's father. Is there any reason you do not want the child seen by the Police Surgeon?

• 53:10Speaker 04

  She wouldn't be able to help. She is too young.

• 53:13Speaker 01

  Well, have you asked your daughter what happened in the house after you left for work on Tuesday, April 1, 1986?

• 53:19Speaker 04

  No, I haven't.

• 53:21Speaker 01

  Why not?

• 53:23Speaker 04

  Why subject her to any more trauma?

• 53:25Speaker 01

  Are you saying that you didn't even ask the child what had happened? Or what her mother had said or done just prior to her death?

• 53:32Speaker 04

  Because I didn't. There is no reason why I didn't.

• 53:37Speaker 01

  Mr. McQueen, have you considered the circumstances surrounding your wife's death in regards to the possibility of suicide?

• 53:43Speaker 04

  I don't believe there is any possibility that she would take her own life.

• 53:48Speaker 01

  Well, have you got any ideas on the matter? Is there anybody who you would suspect as being implicated in causing the death of your wife?

• 53:54Speaker 04

  I have no idea at all.

• 53:57Speaker 01

  After reading reports of the position in which your wife's body was found, it appears to me that her body was lying on an armless kitchen chair, with the buttocks on the seat of the chair and the torso arched backwards and the legs arched downwards. Do you consider it strange that her body would come to rest in this position?

• 54:14Speaker 04

  This is what I've been asking myself. I cannot understand it at all. I can't understand how she would have died an agonising death and been in that position. I would have thought she would fall off the chair.

• 54:28Speaker 01

  And when did you think this?

• 54:30Speaker 04

  Since I found out she died from strychnine poison.

• 54:34Speaker 01

  Have you mentioned this to anyone?

• 54:36Speaker 04

  I mentioned it to my boss, John Marr. I've mentioned it to my parents. I don't know. Friends that I've talked to.

• 54:44Speaker 01

  Well, it does seem strange that the body stayed on the chair, doesn't it?

• 54:48Speaker 04

  I can't understand why she wasn't found on the floor instead of being on the chair, where she was when we walked in.

• 54:55Speaker 01

  Was your wife dead when you left for work on that day?

• 54:57Speaker 04

  No, she was alive and well when I left.

• 55:02Speaker 01

  Did you kill your wife, Mr. McQueen?

• 55:03Speaker 04

  No way. No. I had nothing to do with the death of my wife. I told you. I've seen a solicitor and been given advice. I am prepared to assist you, but I've told you all that I know. You seem to have made up your mind that I killed Rosalind. There is nothing more I can say that hasn't already been said.

• 55:27Speaker 00

  Ray said he did not want to be questioned further. He refused to participate in a formal record of interview. This would have involved the detective Ron Blackshaw asking questions and typing all the answers. Ray would have been asked to read through the typed record, make any necessary corrections and then sign it to confirm it was true and correct. The record would have been admissible in a criminal trial.

• 55:55Speaker 01

  In my opinion, the circumstances as I have put them to you surrounding the death of your wife Rosalind McQueen indicate that you were responsible for her death. You will be charged with the common law offence of murder. You are not obliged to say anything in answer to the charge unless you wish to do so. Anything that you do say will be written down by me and may be given in evidence at a future court hearing. Do you understand this?

• 56:15Speaker 04

  Oh my God. I didn't do it. I had nothing to do with Rosalind's death. I loved my wife. I was devoted to her. I wouldn't do a thing to hurt her. You think I killed Rosalind? I'm not going to say that I did when I didn't. You've said that I am to be charged. Charge me and that's that. I want to make a phone call.

• 56:40Speaker 01

  Very well, you may use the phone.

• 56:43Speaker 00

  At 7:30pm on July 4, 1986, Raymond Kevin McQueen was formally charged with the murder of Rosalind Joy McQueen. In the next episode of The Poisoned Wife... She was terrified, that woman, I can tell you right now. She looked in fear of her life. She did look really, really troubled.

• 57:19Speaker 00

  The Poisoned Wife is investigated and written by me, Hedley Thomas, and Karina Berger. Police statements and some other material have been voice acted in the episodes in this podcast series. Anyone with information about the death of Rosalind McQueen can contact me confidentially at [email protected] Our editorial director is Claire Harvey. Audio production for The Poisoned Wife is by Wasabi Audio and Slade Gibson. Special thanks to Tom Williams, Sean Callanan, Andy Taylor, Greg Brown, Rowan Williams, Brittany English and the Content Division,

• 58:02Speaker 00

  Adelaide Kennedy, Tarnie Stroett, Sophie Renee, Liam Mendez, Sarah Elks, Erica Rutledge, Lydia Lynch, Chloe Barr, John Paul Cashin, Will Sitem, Liliana Molina, Lara Caminos, Suze Rolfe, Chantelle Love, Patrick McKee, Byron Wilder, Stefania Di Nicola, Kushy Chandani, Jonathan Bahame, Lachlan Clear, Harry Hughes, Milan Skapanovic, Rex Bates and Wendy Beatty. And of course, to The Australian's editor-in-chief, Michelle Gunn, and the editor Kelvin Healy for affording us the time and resources to tackle these important stories.