Baron Davis: South Central streets to 2x NBA All Star, inside the mind of a dynamic point guard, survivor’s remorse, locker room untold stories, Golden State’s brotherhood, John Stockton moment, LA Clippers truths and finding purpose beyond basketball.

"Success is 5 min down the street." Baron Davis Baron Davis has lived a life shaped by two very different worlds. Growing up in South Central Los Angeles during the era of the LA riots, he witnessed firsthand the realities of his environment, the challenges of his community, and the importance of finding a way beyond the circumstances surrounding him. On this episode of The Pivot Podcast, the two-time NBA All-Star takes us deep into his life story, opening up about the people, places, and experiences that shaped the man behind the basketball career. Baron reflects on growing up in South Central, the impact of the riots, and the incredibly close relationship he shared with his grandparents, whose love, guidance, and influence helped ground him along the way. He also discusses the unique experience of attending Crossroads School, where he found himself in an entirely different world, surrounded by classmates including Kate Hudson and formed unique friendships that shaped his outlook. It was a journey between two worlds — navigating the realities of his neighborhood while gaining access to opportunities and environments that would ultimately change the trajectory of his life. But making it out doesn't always mean leaving everything behind. Baron gets into the complicated emotions of success, including survivor's remorse — the weight of making it out of an environment where so many others never got the same opportunity. What does it feel like to achieve your dreams while still carrying the memories, relationships, and realities of the place you came from? The conversation also takes us through his basketball journey, from New Orleans to the Golden State Warriors, where he became one of the most electrifying point guards in the league, to his time with the Los Angeles Clippers, as he sheds light on what it was really like inside the Clippers organization. Sharing unheard stories of inside the Golden State locker room, the unlikely tight bond with his teammates and how he had to dig deep to be a leader in a situation set up against him. He revisits the defining moments, challenges, relationships, and lessons that shaped his NBA career. Baron opens up about life after the NBA, transitioning into entrepreneurship, navigating the business world, pouring back into his community, youth sports, and finding new ways to create opportunities beyond the game. He shares what it means to reinvent yourself, stand on what you believe in and understand that your identity doesn't have to be tied to the sport that introduced you to the world. From making it out to serving as a beacon of hope for the next generation to reconciling with the future, Baron's story is one of perseverance, perspective, and evolution. Bigger than basketball. It's about family, survival, opportunity, success, and learning how to pivot when life takes you into its next chapter. Full video of episode on Netflix. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:30Speaker 01

  Baron Davis is a South Central Los Angeles legend, and all he ever wanted to do was put on for his city, even if that meant pretending to be a gangster. His story isn't unfamiliar. Drug-addicted parents, raised by grandparents, and talented enough to earn a spot at one of those prestigious Hollywood schools where the actors and entertainers send their kids. You know, the ones where like Kate Hudson goes. And sitting down with BD was cool, especially for someone from New Orleans, getting to reminisce about his days on the court there and some of his days in the club. He took us back to growing up in L.A., surrounded by gang violence, drugs, and even the Rodney King riots. He opens up about the imposter syndrome he suffered

• 1:12Speaker 01

  from being around all of the rich kids and the lies he told just to fit in. He chose UCLA because he wanted to create a pipeline of Hoopers that stayed home to represent the city. And we talk about the days as a Hornet, the We Believe Warriors, and his time with the poorly-run L.A. Clippers. Baron has since moved on, and he's beyond basketball, and become an incredible community leader, entrepreneur, and he's following in the footsteps of his mentor, Magic Johnson. BD was one of those explosive guards whose impact on the game is sometimes forgotten. But make no mistake about it, he's never been forgotten in the streets of L.A. I've always been a fan of the Hooper,

• 1:55Speaker 01

  but today, we want to introduce you to more of the man. Pivot fam, please welcome Baron Davis to the show.

• 2:22Speaker 02

  I gotta breathe, I'm on. I'm on, I ain't wearing no skinny jeans and none of that.

• 2:27Speaker 01

  BD, this man, we started a sports show eight weeks ago. This man's wearing the same pair of jeans every show.

• 2:35Speaker 02

  Consistency, that's just a, that's a sign of success. That's a sign of success. That boy just, he go in the closet, he know, you don't know if it's the same jeans. It may be the same color.

• 2:47Speaker 01

  It's the same exact pair, BD.

• 2:49Speaker 00

  I bought them Ralph Lauren 125.

• 2:52Speaker 02

  Oh yeah, you gotta wear them out.

• 2:53Speaker 00

  I'm wearing them, bitch, to the goddamn.

• 2:55Speaker 02

  We gotta go.

• 2:56Speaker 00

  To the denim phase.

• 2:57Speaker 02

  They gotta go.

• 3:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, we spending that on them, they got, yeah, we gotta wear them out.

• 3:04Speaker 01

  Baron Davis, man, welcome to the Pivot. This is Fred Taylor, Shannon Crowder. I'm Ryan Clark, Pivot fam, thank you for pivoting with us. Man, I'm just gonna, before we start, I just want you to know you're one of my favorite basketball players of all time.

• 3:17Speaker 02

  Appreciate you, man.

• 3:18Speaker 01

  Obviously, you were in New Orleans, but I always had this thing for, for Hoopers who weren't everybody's favorite but played the game hard.

• 3:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:27Speaker 01

  You know, and you did that. Now, I wish I could jump like you, which I couldn't.

• 3:30Speaker 02

  I mean, I wish I could tackle like you, run like you, you know what I mean? Shit, it's a whole bunch of shit.

• 3:35Speaker 01

  What you wish you could do like Shannon? Wear some jeans?

• 3:38Speaker 00

  Look good.

• 3:39Speaker 02

  They fly. That's the player. Let's just say fly.

• 3:43Speaker 01

  Before we get, get into it too heavy, I know what you do do like Shannon, or like how Shannon did. I remember All-Star Game 99, I think it was 99 when you came out in D.C.

• 3:53Speaker 02

  Yep, yep.

• 3:54Speaker 01

  Remember, we was all kinda hanging out at the strip club and a few other things? That's the first time I met him. Hey, look at that laugh. Hey, that's, that's that love. I wasn't really supposed to see that.

• 4:08Speaker 02

  I thought we was going somewhere else.

• 4:10Speaker 01

  But, but obviously, it made me a bigger fan, bro. Yeah, he was good.

• 4:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, we had a good time.

• 4:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, we should get it in.

• 4:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, he, I know. I, I went up, I went up to 360 one day, that thing was spinning around. It was like, shit, it was a big crowd. I was like, man, who is that? Man, that's Baron Davis over there.

• 4:27Speaker 02

  We used to have like 50, 60 people in the club, 360. That shit used to rotate. So when you get drunk and you start walking the wrong way, then people, bam. All kinda shit. Mardi Gras got me in 360 one time.

• 4:42Speaker 01

  Really, what happened?

• 4:42Speaker 02

  Oh, man, I had never experienced Mardi Gras. And so, we had like two days off, and then we played the day after Mardi Gras. And so, I was like with my trainer, I was like, man, let's just go have some daiquiris, you know, chill at the, what was it, uh, on St. Charles? It was like a little restaurant. So we having a little, I'm like, man, let me get a hurricane. You know, that shit drink like a slushie. So I drank the first one, and then, and my coach, my trainer at the time, he was like, hey, bro, you may wanna chill out. I'm like, man, this shit tastes like Kool-Aid. So the parades start going, they start hitting, you know, hitting with the beads and shit. I'm up, I'm like, damn, bro, I feel kinda like, I feel good. Let me get one, another one of them motherfucking hurricanes.

• 5:27Speaker 02

  I had another hurricane, no bullshit. I was asleep for the next three hours. When I'm asleep, and when I wake up, people, I got beads all over, and people saying, Baron Davis.

• 5:39Speaker 02

  Trying to hit me and shit. I'm on the balcony, knocked out, I get up. I'm like, okay, I'm ready. It's like seven, eight o'clock, I'm like, man, we gotta get some dinner, you know, do our normal routine, get some dinner. And then, all of a sudden, it was like, man, you gotta go out, there's Mardi Gras. So Jamal McGlore like, yo, let's go out. Man, when I go out, I'm, they giving me drinks, and I'm just pow, pow. That motherfucking 360 got the spinning, dude.

• 6:08Speaker 02

  And I wasn't walking the same way as the spin, you know, I'm walking the opposite way. I'm like, hold on, dog, hold on.

• 6:17Speaker 02

  Then I start throwing up, I throw up all the way to the morning. I call the team trainer, I'm like, I ain't gonna make it to the game. I was like, I got food poisoning. He was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, we heard you was out last night. He was like, man, just call me back at, I'll check on you at 3:00. And, you know, you know, sleep through the day. So he check on me at 3:00, I'm like, man, shit, I ain't gonna make it to the game. He was like, man, I'm gonna check on you at 5:00 o'clock. He check on me at 5:00, he like, man, get your ass up here. Man, I get up, driving to the arena and shit. I sit in the locker room, no bullshit, till like five minutes before the game start. I take like three showers, and I wind up playing. But that was like my Mardi Gras nightmare.

• 6:59Speaker 02

  I never in my, never again in my life will I fuck with Mardi Gras. Never again. No, it was almost like a hangover. They had me all through the city, on Bourbon Street, at 360, I was, I'm just woozy and shit.

• 7:13Speaker 01

  You game 20, though?

• 7:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think I balled too, you know, cause when you, when you.

• 7:17Speaker 00

  You bet it, I gotta go, I gotta go.

• 7:19Speaker 02

  When you drunk, when you lightweight hungover, you don't have nothing to do but like sweat it out and be focused on the game. So, you know, it's kinda like false success.

• 7:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:29Speaker 02

  But I, I think I had a good game.

• 7:31Speaker 01

  Hey, that's the, that's the thing. You go out there and do that in football, you getting cooked. You ain't got, hey, you ain't got no shot. Your story, I don't think people really tap into it all the time, right? You, you see what you were able to do after getting hurt your freshman year and then at UCLA, what you were able to do in the league, We Believe, but man, it started so much earlier than that. Growing up, you know, being raised by your grandparents, how often did you think about what your parents were going through on the other side of it?

• 8:01Speaker 02

  Man, it was like an everyday thing, you know, um. When you're from South Central Los Angeles, there are no resources. You know what I mean? Like, there's no resources, there's no opportunity for Make-A-Wish, or, you know, there's no foundations or anything like that. So, you know, all it is, is like what's really happening, and that's the streets. And so, my parents being in the streets every day,

• 8:31Speaker 02

  like not a day off, every day, being with my grandparents, it was just like, man, I, I, I got a place to sleep. And so, like a lot of people don't know, you know, like me and my little sister, you know, we used to have to like go from motel to motel. Like, the reason why I don't sleep at night, you know, is because when I was a kid, I used to have to, that's why I was good at basketball. I'd be at the park at like 11:00 to 2:00 o'clock in the morning, you know, uh, cause that was like the place you can have your kids there, where you sit in the park, or sit across from the parking lot, you know, and whatever they had going on, they had going on. So, yeah, there's a lot of nights where me and my sister would be at the playground at like 11:00 P.M. We wouldn't be the only kids there, a few other kids.

• 9:15Speaker 02

  But like, that's kinda like, basketball was just something that I was so obsessed with, and I could do this by myself, so it was like my zone out. My grandparents was like my comfort zone, cause I knew they wasn't going nowhere, right? They, you know, they had love for everybody, they had love for all their kids, but they were just like stable people. And everything that they taught me was really about God and, and, and, you know, going to church and, and just strong, like, strong values. You know, I saw my grandfather, like, he would take people in on this, you know, off the streets, but, you know, it's like people in the neighborhood, you know, but he would feed them, or he would give them some, so it was always like.

• 9:59Speaker 02

  Even though these people are different and live in a different dimension of our neighborhood, they still people.

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• 11:02Speaker 04

  You spoke about your parents in addiction. When did you realize it was actually a monster that they were facing?

• 11:08Speaker 02

  Early. You know, my mom was a hairdresser. My dad was, I don't know where my dad was. He was just a cool dude, but he wasn't really, uh, they had a weird relationship because of my older sister, we got the same dad. She's 12 years older than me and my younger sister. But my mom worked at a beauty salon on Western in Manchester. And so like I learned how to ride the bus at 5 from Manchester, uh, and Western to Manchester-St. Pigeon. So I seen my mom successful. And my mom would do everything for us. And it went from like having the best Christmas ever to having like all that shit just slowly but surely like start disappearing. And then slowly but surely, shit was outside.

• 11:54Speaker 02

  You know what I mean? On the sidewalk. And slowly but surely is just us, a blanket and one of them, uh, the stove, uh, the, you plug it in, a skillet.

• 12:05Speaker 01

  Hot plate.

• 12:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, where you cook at. And then it was that. And then it was like, uh, we had an iron. And then we had a little, uh, like a curling thing. So that's how we kept warm. And then from there, it was like, who knows where we would be? You know what I mean? So I see my mom go through a lot of shit with a lot of different dudes and a lot of different people. And it was just always like, like I've seen the worst of like any scam that could possibly happen. I saw it as a kid.

• 12:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:34Speaker 02

  Any fucking drug deal or people doing drugs. I seen it as a kid. Learning how to like watch somebody cook the shit up? I learned that as a kid. You know, and it was nothing that I was into. It was just like that, that's what was happening as we were playing, you know, in and outside of houses. And it wasn't like an everyday thing. Because I have my grandparents. So it was like, here's what life really looks like. And then, you know, the 1st and 15th and random days when me and my sister need it, you know, we fall into this kind of dark world of like what my mom was, what her life was.

• 13:13Speaker 01

  Yeah. But you mentioned South Central not necessarily having the resources. A lot of times when you're in these communities and you're in the inner city, you don't know what the other part of life is like.

• 13:26Speaker 02

  At all.

• 13:26Speaker 01

  Right? So you saying, you seeing people cook up crack and it wasn't something you were into, but it also didn't seem like it was a big deal to you.

• 13:34Speaker 02

  It wasn't. It was, yeah.

• 13:35Speaker 01

  When, when did you realize though that that wasn't how everybody's life was?

• 13:41Speaker 02

  I think, like you realize it then. Right? Because we all got friends, we grow up and like, you know, I'm the friend that everybody feels sorry for. You feel what I'm saying? Like if we all hanging out and we was all on the football team, you'd be like, damn BD, you want to come over my house, dog? Like, we know what you, you know, we know what you may or may not have to go back to if you don't go back to your grandparents' house.

• 14:04Speaker 01

  Got you.

• 14:05Speaker 02

  And so like, there are great people in my neighborhood. There are, you know, like it takes a village to raise a, a kid. There were great neighbors and, you know, uh, we had, we lived on a block where it was mostly like the grandparents. And then, you know, that's 85th. 84th place is like, you know, apartments, 84th Street is, that's where it starts to get cracking. You know what I mean? And then on Manchester, across there, that's 87. So you got the Crips, you got the Bloods. You know, you got the ABC market. So everything that we saw, you know, and I always went to South Park Elementary, which was like my elementary school where I learned how to hoop and I stayed on the court. But you see everything that's happening. Dudes getting beat up,

• 14:48Speaker 02

  dudes shooting at each other, like, you know, man, I would say me and my friends, it was kind of like a a great adventures of like everything you could experience in the hood. Right? It was like, I swear to God, dude.

• 15:03Speaker 01

  What age was this?

• 15:04Speaker 02

  Oh man, from like, I would say like five to

• 15:09Speaker 02

  really till I went, started going across, so I was like 14, like 13, 14. But like from five to like 11, 12, all through elementary, it was like, you never know what you was gonna see, dude.

• 15:22Speaker 03

  So you, you're 12, you occasionally see somebody whipping dope. Then you see a motherfucker get shot at. Then you see dude beating each other up. And you just, huh, I grab something to eat, go play basketball. Like it's, it had, bruh, it had to do something to you. Like that can't, you, you really thought that was normal life?

• 15:41Speaker 02

  It was what was normal to us. Like the only time I got a chance to experience anything that felt like I didn't have to be on my senses is when I went and hoop, when my AAU coach came and got me. Or when we went to church, like, but it wasn't, you know, you got church on Sunday and then maybe AAU on the weekend. Other than that, it's like,

• 16:02Speaker 02

  whatever happens during the day, like, we could be at my grandma's house, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, then my mom come and then we gone. You know what I mean? So like it was, it was seeing, you know, a lot of these movies where it's like your parents are not right and they don't know what they're doing. And you as a kid, you just feel like, you feel hopeless because you can't really do nothing about it. And so being with my grandparents, it was like, me and my sister, we just was like trying our hardest to be good.

• 16:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:34Speaker 02

  You know, trying, trying our hardest to be good because like, where else were we gonna go? You know, we were almost off to a foster home until my grandfather said, all right, well, I guess these are gonna be the last, you know, of the grandkids that we're gonna raise. Because they had raised all their kids, grandkids, and they were tired. They were old. But they were like, all right, like we can't let, I'm not gonna let them be on the streets. Yeah.

• 16:57Speaker 01

  When you meet though, when you in school now, you with Kate Hudson, Cash Warren, right, Denzel children around there, Dustin Hoffman?

• 17:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 17:06Speaker 01

  And you get into that world, what was that acclamation process?

• 17:10Speaker 02

  That was wild.

• 17:11Speaker 01

  Like, because you a hooper, but you coming from this place in South Central that's so different. So how was it to now be amongst those sort of people?

• 17:18Speaker 02

  It was weird because, you know, one, you don't fit in because you don't have the peachy background. You don't even have parents. So it's like, they talking about parents and vacations and, you know, opening up, like, where are you from? And I'm just like, all right, I guess I'm about to lie to these people.

• 17:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, that was like the first time really being around white people. And not just white people, but like white people, Asian people or Indian people. They were like good black people, you know, like working, you know, like there was like, everybody had something and they, or they had some type of talent. And so when I got there, I was just lying. I was like, oh, I got a kid, you know, and they were like, he got a kid. Kate Hudson run up to me like, you ain't got no kid, you only 13. I was like, I don't, I don't. Kate Hudson was, uh, we were in the same class. So she would always beat a person and be like, Baron, did you do your homework? I'm like, uh, hey man, chill out, chill out. She's like, you didn't do your homework, huh? I'm like, no, I didn't.

• 18:24Speaker 02

  Or she'd be like, uh, you didn't have a twin that got hit by an ice cream truck and died? And I'm like, I know, I don't. But like, stop busting my boat, you know, like let them, let them live with these stories, you know what I mean? Kay used to stay, she used to stay on me, but she was, like she was just highly competitive. And when I started realizing at the school was like, They had, it wasn't so much what the school was teaching me. The school for me was like, man, it's like Disneyland, shit. I ain't, I ain't got no, nothing to worry about. You know, seventh grade is when you really start gang banging or you gotta like, figure out what you gonna do, even if you a hooper, cuz you gotta go to these schools.

• 19:06Speaker 02

  My, uh, best friend, I got murdered when I was in sixth grade. He was in seventh grade, he got murdered in our neighborhood. So that's what provoked my grandmother to not want me to go to any school in the neighborhood. So I was just like, and he was getting, and he rode the bus. So she was like, we gotta figure out some way for you to go that way. Not, not, not more east, cuz everything we was, was east sides. Yeah, it's like even going to Crossroads, like I'm on the east side, so I still gotta pass the east side until I get to the west side. So them bus stops was like, you know, them ain't no, there ain't no stops, no, no soft stops. And my grandfather, man, shout out to my grandfather.

• 19:48Speaker 02

  My first year at Crossroads, he would drop me off at Manchester and Crenshaw. And then my AAU coach would come pick me up. He worked in Burbank. So he would drop me off at school in Santa Monica and then drive all the way to Burbank. He worked for K-Swiss, that's how we first got our little AAU team. And so like, that was kinda like the miracle year. And then my grandfather got really sick. And so every morning, he was dying. And like, I saw my grandfather die, like, on this journey of taking me and dropping me off on Manchester and Crenshaw. And I like, knew the last time he dropped me off, because that was like, the day I didn't wanna go to school. You know what I mean?

• 20:30Speaker 02

  And so like, that, my AAU coach, just, just, I would always say, I had guardian angels and people who just like, stepped in and stepped up. It was always like a, a ride and an extension. You know, I had a, a young lady who got a car, she lived in Inglewood, uh, Aaron Irving. She used to carpool me, like, people would just, uh, Carolyn Roper Connor, my, my, my high school coach, his sister, she lived in the neighborhood. She used to take us to school, take us home. She took us home for the riots. And she was giving us a lesson, we was coming home from the riots. And we coming off the freeway, and it's like, damn dude, I ain't never made it home this fast, what's going on? Get off on Manchester and it's like, jam packed.

• 21:13Speaker 02

  And she like, man, you know, the riding king, we just talking about all this shit. Next thing, nah, I usually do my homework in the car, so I can go play, uh, at the courts. So I'm like, head down, I'm not really paying attention, trying to do some homework. I look up, there's a dude running with like, damn near a, a chest, a, a, a chest or drawer, whatever.

• 21:34Speaker 02

  Ah, ah, ah, then you see dudes with Pampers. And then we get to Broadway and I say, oh my God, it's cracking. It's cracking, the Broadway swap meet was hit, the pawn shop, it was lines, I was like, damn. And that's when like, the riots was starting, so we, I'm on, uh, San Pedro, which is like three blocks over. So as we like creeping, she just giving us a whole lesson on black people and like, how we fucking up our community and, you know, this shit don't even make no sense. And soon as she dropped me off, she like, man, go inside and take care of your grandmother. I'm like, man, I got you, you know what I mean? And my cousin just pull on the, on the lawn in the van, pop the head, get your punk ass in the car, it's up. He throwing shit on the lawn. She like, go in the house, I'm like,

• 22:21Speaker 02

  yeah, get your punk ass in the car, what you want, weekend, everything, they had steaks and shit, man, they had, it was like a, it was just like a whole bunch of shit, they like, it was gonna spoil in a week, or you got, you know, remember the guests, the damaged jeans? Man, motherfuckers was placing orders during, during the riots. But I,

• 22:40Speaker 01

  BD, what did you?

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• 23:13Speaker 01

  But in that moment, bro, cuz like, you were one of the people that during a time, like, you played basketball, and like, Michael Jordan had the, you know, Republican buy shoes, and he just wouldn't, he wouldn't say anything, he wouldn't be a voice for the community. In many ways, people expected him to, or wanted him to. You were never like that, right? I actually read a quote from you saying like, yeah, I'd rather stand for something than stand for nothing, like, that's important. Was it because of things like, the riots and the ways that you grew up? That you wanted to be a part of uplifting the community?

• 23:46Speaker 02

  Man, I just think that it, it, it was just like, I, I was so blessed that, and I don't know if y'all ever experienced this, like, I felt guilty. I always felt guilty. So like, even making it, like, there was a sense in me that like, I don't know where I'm going, and everywhere I go, like, I'm never really gonna be understood, you know what I mean? And like, I kinda like it here. I kinda like my friends and the, and like, being a little naive to shit, you know what I mean? And like, going back to the neighborhood, it was like, imagine how many kids are like me.

• 24:27Speaker 02

  So when I made it out, it was just like, go back and tell everybody like, yo, it's just right down the street, you know what I mean? It's like, success is five minutes down the street, right? And so that's, that was my responsibility, was like, I had to put as many, I tried to put as many people on as I could, whether it was through telling them, through showing action, through showing up on time, to spending resources. I was just like, I felt so guilty that here I am with all this success, right? And it's like, none of this shit really matters, I just like, hooping. But all the other shit was like, eh, you know, I'm just doing it to do it. So it was always like a guilt, and then it was always, felt like a responsibility to be like, alright, who's next?

• 25:12Speaker 02

  Like, I know the young generation of hoopers are next, so I was always like, comfortable with the next gen, you know, like, thinking about the next generation and like, who could pass BD? Who could like, put me on? Who could I go work for? You know, when, when my shit was over. So like, I, I, my grandmother just always instilled it in me, like, it could be over tomorrow, it could be over in two years, so like, you know, save your money, but at the same time, like, appreciate where you are. So what, what are you gonna do when it's over?

• 25:43Speaker 01

  Where you going back to?

• 25:45Speaker 02

  Going right back to LA. And nobody has ever really, at the time, from LA, made it with a name like this, you know, with the entourage, with all the shit, and then stayed. So it was like, man, I'm gonna stay right here.

• 26:03Speaker 03

  You had both sides. You had your parents, you had your grandparents. You had, you had the devil and the angel, pretty much.

• 26:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 26:09Speaker 03

  With that situation with your cousin.

• 26:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 26:11Speaker 03

  He jumping out saying, shit, let's go grab these people's shit.

• 26:13Speaker 02

  All day.

• 26:14Speaker 03

  But why did that lady bring you home that day to tell you go in the house?

• 26:17Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 26:17Speaker 03

  You could choose, you could've chose either way, and you continued to choose the good route.

• 26:21Speaker 02

  Right.

• 26:22Speaker 03

  And that's on you, that's not on nobody else, or the survivor's remorse that you feeling? I'm hearing stuff that you could've went the wrong way easily.

• 26:30Speaker 02

  Oh, oh.

• 26:30Speaker 03

  You could've told your grandmama, I'm going to the, I'm going to the school with my, with my homeboys with me. But you chose that route.

• 26:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 26:36Speaker 03

  Who, who, that's on you.

• 26:38Speaker 02

  Fear. That's what it was.

• 26:42Speaker 03

  Of what?

• 26:42Speaker 02

  Fear. Of having to hustle and be a dope dealer. Having to gang bang. Be a crackhead. Be a nobody. Be a, just a person who, like, there were, like, not a lot of, like, there was, like, college, like, nobody, college wasn't around? Like, there wasn't no college around when I was a little kid. So for me, it was like, I didn't wanna be none of that shit. And then on top of that, my grandmother is seeing this shit every day. So I do not wanna be a disappointment to her, she's had enough.

• 27:24Speaker 02

  So the last thing I'm about to do is be somebody that walks into this house and brings negativity. And so that's kind of like, how I decided, like, it's cool, like, these people are cool, these people are colorful, right? I'm gonna hang with these people, I'm gonna, you know, like, figure out, cuz I have a great imagin- figure out how these people play in my world, right? But like, I am always safe from my grandparents. And so I, I chose safety over like, exploring, you know, cuz you wanna, oh man, I wanna gang bang in the home, he's like, man, get the fuck out of here, you ain't no gang banger. We got this, like, we got this, you know? Like, you, you, oh, I wanted to leave Crossroads and go to Fremont.

• 28:07Speaker 02

  My grandmother's like, go ahead and check in, when school starts, you're going to that school again, you know? And so, you caught in two different worlds, right? It's like, when I'm in South Central, like, how am I, who am I? And when I'm at Crossroads, it's like, discovering, like, who am I? Right? So it's just like,

• 28:26Speaker 01

  Two worlds.

• 28:27Speaker 02

  It's two worlds. It's two worlds to live in, then it's two worlds to live in, then it's another two worlds to, you know, to live in. So it was always like, trying to figure out, like, where do I stand? Who can I trust? And like, where am I safer? And so that's kind of like how I've navigated my whole life that way.

• 28:51Speaker 04

  So, the fear of failure is sort of what kept you moving, because you saw your, your, your parents, you know, you saw them sort of go down the wrong road. You didn't wanna be that. Uh, fear of, uh, letting your, your grandmother down, letting your grandparents down. Uh, even the NFL, fear of going back home.

• 29:08Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 29:09Speaker 04

  You know, and having to deal with the people in the hood who probably would've thought, uh, we knew he was gonna come back home, we knew he wasn't gonna make it. Is that sort of, was that your true motivation to get you through a, a great, um, NBA career?

• 29:22Speaker 02

  I think that and the chip on my shoulder was like, when I'm playing and I'm hooping, y'all don't respect LA.

• 29:34Speaker 02

  I don't respect LA. Y'all call it a soft. Alright, where they at? East Coast guards, New York point guards. Oh, they way tougher than West Coast guards. Like, this is the shit that I'm hearing coming up. So it's like, who said it? I want all fades. I want all fades. This how we get down in LA? This is new. This ain't, this ain't the LA y'all media people talk about. This ain't, you know, just, this ain't just skill. This is skill, some gangster, some intellect. And so that was like my chip on my shoulder. It was like, man, we got game out here and y'all, y'all playing with us. And y'all be, you know, y'all be messing us over.

• 30:18Speaker 02

  And like, we don't get the rankings because, you know, we don't get the media. We don't get the media attention. So, you know, it's always like, y'all think of us some other way. Like, we just be out here surfing and, you know what I mean? Like, painting our, you know, painting our toenails and shit, getting pedicures. Manicures, like, nah, fool, like. And then on top of that, like, it, we had so many guys that I looked up to, that you watched, and somehow, some way, like, there was a ceiling. But this person had no ceiling. And it was like Harold Minor. Right? You watching Harold Minor, and you like, man, this is baby Jordan. He's going. But that shit didn't work out. How did that work out? Ricky Price, who went to Duke.

• 31:03Speaker 02

  That's why I didn't go to Duke. Because I was like, man, this dude is a, he damn near a god. McDonald's All-American, come from LA, he go to Duke. He was ballin'. He's a pro. How is he not making it? You know what I mean? So I was just like, fuck that, I'm staying home. We gonna ride it out here. We gonna ride it out. And then this next generation of all the young hoopers, y'all come with me. Y'all come with me. Y'all come to the games, even if y'all ain't getting recruited by UCLA. Y'all coming. Hey, we recruiting them too. Put, put y'all, put y'all name on they, on they page too, or I ain't coming. And so it was like, bring that to LA. Bring that to like this next generation of point guards.

• 31:46Speaker 02

  And then that was ultimately like why I stayed in, in LA and went to UCLA.

• 31:50Speaker 04

  Hey, B, we know how much, what's in the tape deck before the game gets your mind right, right?

• 31:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:55Speaker 04

  How much of the East Coast, West Coast music beef influenced some of that, um, that mindset that you had? Like, bring, bring the East Coast players, I'm gonna show y'all what the West Coast players.

• 32:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was like, that shit was trickling down to AAU basketball. New York Riverside Church, they hadn't lost in two years. And they was like the greatest AAU team that ever played. And they came out, you know, to the best in the West. And, you know, Ron Artest, they got the Wu-Tang Samurai hats. You know, they, everybody like enamored with these New York dudes. And it was me, Tayshaun Prince, Jason Capone, the Collins Twins. We had a couple other LA dudes. We beat the shit out of them. We sent their ass home. You know what I mean? But it was, uh, yeah, y'all know what's happening. We sent them home, but it was, it was, the beef was really like, it was, it just charged shit up. You know, on a, on a pool court, yeah.

• 32:49Speaker 02

  But for us as athletes, like, shit, I was listening to Biggie. I was listening to Nas, Jay-Z, because I was going to Crossroads. So I hadn't really, all I knew was like gangster music or West Coast or funk and shit like that. When I went to Crossroads, I started learning about Tribe Called Quest and, you know, all these different rappers. I started, like, my music palette started to expand, right? Because these white kids, their parents worked at the label. So we was like getting new music or getting, you know, turned on to stuff, you know, just from being on this other side of town. So I think for me, it kind of like made my playlist even more great. You got Red, I got Redman, you know what I mean?

• 33:31Speaker 02

  I got all these other dudes that I'm just like discovering within the mix of like what, what, what we had going on at the time, you know, in the West.

• 33:39Speaker 01

  What you was listening to when John Stockton gave you the business when you was a rookie?

• 33:43Speaker 02

  Oh, my gosh. What was I listening to my rookie year? 99. I was listening to a lot of shit, like Fab. I feel like it was Fab and Lil Mo had a song. Uh, that shit was crazy. Man, I was, you know what I would do? I'd go to the, uh, Tower Record every Tuesday and buy every, every CD.

• 34:02Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 34:03Speaker 02

  Anthony Mason taught me that. Like, you know, we used to, we used to floss on the plane, you know, open up your DVD case. Like, how many DVDs you got? Who got all the CDs? Eldon Campbell, oh, he had a fucking, Eldon Campbell was the first dude that was burning CDs to the computer. And he'd just be on the plane, big ass bookers. Turn it over, put it in. I'm like, dog, how long this shit gonna take? He was like, it'll take me probably the whole season to, you know, get this.

• 34:30Speaker 01

  Hey, that's how long ago it was. I, I saw you say somewhere, Dovin, like, that was kind of your, you had a walk up to the league moment with John Stockton. People, you know, people discount that era of basketball. Because they'll see John Stockton or Jeff Hornacek and be like, those dudes could play. What was it about John Stockton, bro? Because you coming up, chip on your shoulder, extremely athletic, explosive, and you playing this older cat that people didn't give the respect they deserved.

• 34:56Speaker 02

  John Stockton taught me there's a science to the game. And like, he mastered the science. How do you get the perfect angle for a pick and roll? Like, you, you guarding John Stockton, and you like, ha, like, he ain't gonna do shit. You know what I mean? So you picking him up and, you know, like, you trying to check his handle. But all of a sudden, like, by the time he gets set up and ready to run the play, you below the free throw line. Here come fucking Ostertag and Karl Malone. Bang! Every time, dude, every time.

• 35:33Speaker 02

  And then defensively, what he taught me was you can be the best defensive player on the court by just being aware. So he was just pesky. Like, wherever the ball was, he was. When you sleep, he was active. So you could never fall asleep, never, ever, ever, ever, ever fall asleep. Because that was his, his advantage. You always had to be like, so now you picking him up and you doing this, and you looking on your shoulder, be like, fuck that, he not, he not putting me under this free throw line. There you go. You know what I mean? And then like, he not missing no open shots. He not turning the ball over. And it's like, god damn, dude, like, you can't do nothing but be frustrated. You know what I mean?

• 36:18Speaker 02

  I was so frustrated with John Stockton, dude. And then he running, and then he doing like this, boom, and throwing you into the picks and shit. So at, at some point, he like.

• 36:32Speaker 03

  I think we might all had this. Maybe Freddie T didn't have it because you was running four twos. But get to the league in that moment where, because you were, you was big as hell as a point guard.

• 36:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 36:42Speaker 03

  You had, you had the Boingies, you had the Bunnies, you was fast, you could dribble. But all that shit don't matter if you don't know the game.

• 36:48Speaker 02

  No.

• 36:49Speaker 03

  That didn't happen till you got to the league?

• 36:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, that, I knew how to play because I played with the pros every summer. Uh, and that was my goal, to like make it to the, make it to the summer to play with the pros until I made it to the NBA. So I knew how to play, but it was the science, dude. Like, I don't care how fast you are, how strong you are. Like, when somebody has mastered angles. You know what I'm saying? When somebody, it don't matter, their athletic ability is their, they mastered angles, they mastered timing, right? And they mastered instinct. And so that's hard, that's hard to play against. Because they figured you out while figuring themselves out or figuring everybody else out. So it's like, you watch somebody like Stockton, the game is easy to.

• 37:34Speaker 05

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• 38:05Speaker 01

  It was weird to me to be from the N.O. And have seen what I felt like was just high level. It was obviously all NBA play, right? And then you get to the Warriors and the numbers are still great, but it, it wasn't what it was in those times.

• 38:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 38:23Speaker 01

  But that's when everybody's like, Baron Davis is one of those dudes. And it's because of what the We Believe Warriors became. We just talked to Matt too about this. What was it about that team, man, that galvanized that city the way they got behind you?

• 38:38Speaker 02

  I mean, I think we just embodied the city. It was like, we were just, we had this like misfit mentality. Like, we didn't fit into the traditional norm of how teams were made up. Like, if you looked at us on paper, you'd be like, how the fuck can they compete? Right? With, you know, without a power forward, like, without the height, you know? And, and the big man, like, a dominant big man or dominant power forward. And then when you start looking at the personalities of the dudes on the team, it's like, who in their right mind would put all those dudes on the same?

• 39:14Speaker 01

  Stack, Matt.

• 39:16Speaker 02

  Stack, Al, Matt, me. You know, you look at Jason Richardson and like, Jason Richardson is like the most astute, you know, like, like, he comes from prestige. Like, you know, Michigan State, you know, winner in college. Like, but he was, he was like in basketball hill before we got there because he had been through like seven coaches in four years or something like that. And so it was just like a bunch of guys that you couldn't figure out. Nobody could figure out. And then all of a sudden, like, once we figured it out, we was like, oh, it's a party. Because we love to party. You know, like, before Stack and Al got, got there, we never hung out.

• 40:01Speaker 02

  Everybody went their separate ways. Nobody said nothing to you. Rarely, people talked on the plane. There were no team breakfasts where dudes like, go, oh, let's go get some bread. Like, no, it was young dudes. It was like people like myself and veterans and like, nobody, nobody had any common interest. It was like the European guys, they kind of hung together because they were, you know, they were young. And, but everybody was like real separate. Mike Dunleavy and Troy Murphy, they were like the two other best players on the team besides Jason Richardson, myself. So like, they didn't really hang with each, you know, they didn't really hang with each other.

• 40:37Speaker 01

  What did Al and Stack do though to?

• 40:40Speaker 02

  They came in, they was just wanting to go out all the time. They just wanna go out all the time. Stack never shut up. You know, Al, Al was, you know, when Al stepped on the plane, you know, that's big man. You gonna automatically smile, feel good, he got jokes, like Al just has the best personality. Like he, he's the stickiness and the fun.

• 41:02Speaker 01

  Right.

• 41:03Speaker 02

  Because he, like, let's go to dinner. Like, he's always thinking about all the cool shit to do. Stack is just loud, funny, right, engaging. He's a, like, he treats everybody like a big brother.

• 41:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:18Speaker 02

  Like, you can go to Stack for anything, for a laugh, you know, if I'm down. No matter what he did, he gonna, he, he's a giver.

• 41:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:26Speaker 02

  And then Matt is like, he's, Matt was like, you know, he was like the comedian. Like, he would always, he would be the only one who would fuck with Stack all the time. You know what I mean? Like, he fuck with Stack all the time, so you could see, like, even though Stack will fuck you up, like, you know, it's like, if you make him laugh, like, he'll forget about it. You know what I mean?

• 41:51Speaker 02

  You gotta make him laugh, then he forget about why, why he even wanted to fight.

• 41:55Speaker 01

  But he always wanted to fight, though.

• 41:57Speaker 02

  Oh, dude, every time. We in Washington. I always tell this story. We in Washington, and I think we had, uh, just lost to the Wizards. We had a team meeting, we go out, and I'm at, what, remember the club that had the four levels? What was that called? Whatever it was.

• 42:13Speaker 01

  It was a dream, huh?

• 42:14Speaker 02

  Dream.

• 42:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:15Speaker 02

  So we in dreams.

• 42:16Speaker 01

  I know way too much about clubs to not go nowhere.

• 42:19Speaker 02

  You walk up a level, so I'm up, I get there early, I'm up, so I see Stack man coming, you know, Stack walking in, got the jewelry on, and you see him kinda like, ah, boom, bump a dude, like, you know, dude, look back.

• 42:33Speaker 02

  Stack start walking, dude.

• 42:36Speaker 02

  Stack look back, and I'm at the top, I'm watching him the whole time. The dude, I don't know where the dude was. Next thing you know, after Stack say what's up to everybody, it was cool, he start looking for the dude the entire time in the club. And here I am at the top of the balcony, like, look at him, dude, look, look, he looking for that dude. That dude ain't even, he, that dude probably was like, oh, that's Stephen Jackson.

• 42:58Speaker 01

  Right.

• 42:58Speaker 02

  But he mad as shit. He mad, he furious the whole time. We get, now the club is over, and, you know, now he, he's still mad, like, he's just, he's just... What, what you say? What's, he, he on that. What, what, what you say? What, what?

• 43:17Speaker 02

  It's cracking, what? So, he ready to do that. So I'm like, god damn, dude. We in DC, we don't need to be fucking around out here, you know what I mean? Cause, you know, they don't play in DC. So I'm like, man, what can I do? So I said, fuck it, I just jump out the, uh, the cab, and I start running down the street. What you say, motherfucker? You wanna get out, fool? What's happening? Stack runs, BD, no!

• 43:45Speaker 02

  Nah, he put me in the car, dog. We get in the car, we go, and we get back to the hotel, and I'm like, phew. Thank you, Lord, dog. Thank you, Lord. So I, you know, it's like Stack was like that.

• 43:56Speaker 01

  He had to save you, in order to be not mad no more.

• 43:59Speaker 02

  Oh, man, you just had to beat Stack to the punch.

• 44:03Speaker 02

  Or entertain him, or entertain him.

• 44:05Speaker 01

  That is something we talked, I, I ask Matt about, we talked about it. That concept of that dude, is that in the NBA anymore? That dude that motherfuckers is scared of, like, hey, leave him alone. Mess with him, mess with him, leave him alone.

• 44:18Speaker 02

  Nah, I, I think, uh, you got that in, uh, Jaden McDaniels. From Minnesota. He, he remind me a lot of Stack, like, because when he on the court, he got game. He can do more than what you think, like, Stack was my, was our other point guard. Like, Stack can run the point, he can do whatever, he can do whatever he want out there, shoot the ball, pass, you know, Stack was amazing, he was an amazing player, and I think Jaden McDaniels is someone like that. When you watch him, you're like, man, that dude can do more than what you think. He's just playing, he just wanna win, he's just a winner, he wanna win. But off the court, dude, Stack was crazy.

• 44:58Speaker 01

  But also too, though, people forget, like, Stack was the McDonald's All-American with Kobe.

• 45:02Speaker 02

  Stack was, yeah, he was elite. Yeah, he been elite, yeah.

• 45:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm saying.

• 45:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, and he always, and he always thinks of himself like that. You know what I mean? Like, so, you know, we be on the plane, and he be like, man, so and so scared of me, like, watch. And you like, man, this dude just be saying all kinda shit. You get on the game, like, damn, dog, like...

• 45:23Speaker 02

  He is scared of Stack, like, okay, we gonna win.

• 45:27Speaker 02

  We gonna win, he scared of Stack, like, they main guys scared of Stack.

• 45:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:32Speaker 02

  And Stack barking at him. Start, he barking at team, he barking at, he ain't barking at nobody that is, you know, third, fourth. He barking at the main guys, he checking the main dudes. So like, that's why I think that mentality with us was like, we all had that mentality. Like, man, I don't care who you got, like, we bout to figure out what you can't do and make you do that all the time.

• 45:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:57Speaker 02

  And so that was that.

• 45:58Speaker 04

  Yeah, I think that, that 07, uh, we believed in was dope, but you end up going over to, to, to the Clippers the next year. Looking back, was that the, the right decision, or you wish?

• 46:08Speaker 02

  That was a terrible decision, dog. That was a fucking horrible decision. I don't regret it, though, because I would say, when I left to go to the Clippers, I was like, yeah. When I got there, I was like, alright, this shit is like 150 times worse than when I arrived in Golden State. Because it was an organizational problem, and I never dealt with people who were so fucking sneaky. You know what I mean? And secretive, and like, like, you don't know if somebody gonna be there today, be there tomorrow. It's just kinda like, like, there's no stable, nothing is stable here.

• 46:46Speaker 04

  And so the shit that Pablo Torre kinda popped off just recently, that shit's kinda been going down for a minute.

• 46:54Speaker 02

  I just think, you know, you look at, you look at Sterling, and how he ran that organization, like, he ran it, you know, like a, like it was a third world NBA team. And so you're cursed. Because if you never treat people good, right, you'll never be successful.

• 47:17Speaker 01

  And he had a lack of respect for the players.

• 47:20Speaker 02

  Anybody.

• 47:21Speaker 01

  Out of the gate, too.

• 47:22Speaker 02

  He had a lack of respect for everybody. And he did not give a fuck who you are. Like, he was so, I say, it took me a while to figure it out. It took me my second year, cause I was like, did, I, after my first year playing with the Clippers, I took a trip to Africa.

• 47:39Speaker 02

  I took a trip to Africa, cause I was like...

• 47:41Speaker 01

  You had to get to the motherland, huh?

• 47:42Speaker 02

  Man, cause I was like, man, it's, you know, I, I, that was like when I decided, yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm gonna go to Africa. Because I need to fit, I need to see, like, is this shit racist, you know? Like, is this racism? Or am I just doing all this, you know, am, am I fighting against something with like no purpose? And I wasn't really fighting against him, it was like, they was just, they just figured out how to pick on people and bully people. And I ain't the one to bully. Like, I'm gonna talk, you know, I'm gonna, I'm gonna stand up for myself, I'm gonna talk back, you're not gonna talk to me anyway. I don't give a fuck who you are, you know, like, so I, I had, and I'm from LA, so I got standards and morals and principles,

• 48:25Speaker 02

  and the owners don't, you know, the owner don't. So, when I went to Africa, I was like, man, this, this, this is a beautiful thing, cause I had never seen black love, like, black people, people of color, love on each other. And celebrate each other. I never seen black, I saw black man holding hands. Alright, he's walking in the streets, skipping and shit, like, singing and skipping. And I was like, dog, it was fucking me up, cause I was like, what is going on? And they was like, you from here, dog? I was like, nah, I'm from LA. They was like, nah, you from here, bro. I was like, no, I'm from LA. By the time I left, I didn't really wanna leave, cause I was like, dude, this is,

• 49:07Speaker 02

  this is how, like, if we could be like this.

• 49:11Speaker 01

  There's actual joy.

• 49:12Speaker 02

  Over here. Yeah, and then it was like, it just changed my whole, it was such a joy. Like, it was all of us. Grocery store, restaurant, hotel, like, you, I mean, it's... And it was like, damn, dude, and they, they like, love each other, and it was like, love here. We gotta do that shit in LA, and I remember calling up, uh, Poo Jettard. I was like, man, we gotta do something, we gotta bring all the LA basketball together, like, we gotta, like, be a brotherhood, and like, show these fools like the next way, and like, invest in the next generation, and just keep pouring in. And I was like, that's the one thing I can do, you know, coming back. So it kinda changed my mentality the second year playing with the, with the Clippers.

• 49:54Speaker 02

  But the Clippers was just, it was just fucked up organization, you know, like, Donald Sterling was a, was a fucked up person. You know, he was a bad person.

• 50:04Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 50:05Speaker 02

  And so, you know, it's hard to...

• 50:09Speaker 02

  Go up against a bad person who's running the system, who has all the authority. And it's like, alright, whatever y'all say about me, you can say about me, but you're not gonna bully me and run me off. But Clippers could have been, it could have been better. And then I learned from Blake and Deandre, like, man, fuck this dude. Let's just play basketball.

• 50:30Speaker 01

  Right.

• 50:30Speaker 02

  But it was like, they were, they were so young and naive, like, I was older, so I'd been traded before, and you know, like, I'd been through the politics and like, why I was, why was I responsible for having to even talk to them? And like, I was having meetings with management off, uh, once a week. About nothing, about, oh, why is this person crying?

• 50:50Speaker 01

  Right. I, I think too, though, you talk about that naivety you could have when you're young, when you experience the business, but more importantly, you experience life, it gets harder to just go along with things all the time, you know? And for somebody like you who had Magic as somebody you could lean on and, and have mentorship from, what did you learn from him? That led you into, I can't even really call it your second act, because you began entrepreneurship while playing. What was it like to have somebody that could be the North Star of taking basketball to business?

• 51:29Speaker 02

  I think having a Magic in our community and just as one of my favorite players ever, it was just, that's who I studied. So like, when you end the game and you playing the game, you watching somebody make, making moves and talking about what they're doing and starting businesses and Starbucks and, you know, things like that in our neighborhood. And I'm like, man, that's the fuck I wanna do right there, you know what I mean? Like, I wanna do that. And so, Magic is just the ultimate person to study. Like, he was our real first public use case of like, what you could be outside of being a basketball player. And like, people knew Magic Johnson just from being Magic Johnson,

• 52:13Speaker 02

  which was like, how can you be bigger than what you were as a basketball player, right? And have an effect on people's lives. And so I think, you know, for me, like, Magic has always been like, Big Bro, the Godfather, the hero, like, you only go to Magic when you really need something. You know what I mean? Like, when you really wanna talk about something, when you really need, you know, like, when you need something, right? Or, or, you know, you want to tell him what you're doing, right? Like, you don't bother Magic, dog, like, you just don't bother. You just watch him and he's, you know, he's the blueprint.

• 52:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:51Speaker 02

  For success. And I think for me, when I was in the league, I was like, damn, alright, I got enough money. Let me see if I can start now figuring out how to be who I wanna be. So my second act is transitioning as I'm leaving the game.

• 53:06Speaker 01

  Got you.

• 53:07Speaker 03

  Talking about the second act, is that kinda, I, it seemed like an insecurity, we talked about earlier, being on, from the hood and going across the roads and all, like, an insecurity of where I fit in. And it seems like now, with the entrepreneurship, but also like, you say the dude from LA, it comes out every now and again. You could talk the talk, you can, you know, say talk business, you got a lot of business ventures, but you can also go back to the hood. So that uncomfortability, you, you molded that into an advantage for yourself?

• 53:33Speaker 02

  Absolutely, and, and it's like the most comfortable advantage, right? Because I realize that I'm an access point to so many different people. So when I identify the section of people or a group or a community of people that, ooh, I wanna learn something or tap in, then I get to bring them into my ecosystem, which cross pollinates the fact that, oh, here are business people that would never meet dudes from the neighborhood or from the hood, who are small business owners now. And so like, I wanna set the table so people can have access to each other, because we, when you live in this world, you realize that the whole world is just like high school.

• 54:18Speaker 02

  Right? Everybody is still kinda segregated. And so for athletes, it was like, here are business people, here are investors, here are entrepreneurs, entrepreneurs here, like, entrepreneurs admire athletes, investors wanna be next to the athletes. And so I was like, alright, I can be the centerpiece of communication, central intelligence. Then my goal is just to like, bring everybody together. So I'm not afraid now to go anywhere, because I know that I'm just different. But my, my difference is I have access to more people than what that community has for a specific focus.

• 54:56Speaker 04

  I think I would be doing a disservice to people that's watching this if I don't ask you about, um, your recent post, you know, on, on Instagram, where you, all that you ever done was try to give back to your communities, right? Through your philanthropy, through Team Play Foundation, just serving disadvantaged youth, South Park Elementary, the Learning Center renovation, even donating to Hurricane Katrina back in the day. You posted something that speaks to, uh, how, how people are with youth sports and taking advantage of the kids and, and basically cheating. Can you speak to that just a little bit before I ask the biggest pivot question?

• 55:38Speaker 02

  So I'm pissed off right now, because our team, our 11U team is undefeated. One of our players didn't play the five-play limit. The team we played set out nine players due to injury in the semifinals. So that automatically, automatically tell me, as an athlete, like, you're setting out your worst players, so you're gonna have to sub.

• 56:01Speaker 04

  So I have to play on five plays?

• 56:02Speaker 02

  When this is an all-kid experience. Now, we did not make our five-play limit in the first half. And so the game was supposed to be forfeited. We were down eight-six, I can live with that, right? We can pack our bags and go. They said, oh, just make up for it in the second half, because they were up eight-six. And, alright, cool, we'll just get everybody their plays. We wind up winning. An hour later, they came back and said, well, no, you can't do that, you forfeit it. And so, my problem is, where's the integrity? Penalize the adults. Be mad at me as a coach for how I coached.

• 56:43Speaker 02

  Be mad at me and how I love my kids, but at the end of the day, I love my kids, I love your kids, I love those kids, I love every kid in the gym. Right? Because it doesn't matter, like, this game for us in sports is really an opportunity to be who we are. Yeah, what burns me up is like, the agenda, right? And how people use their power to, you know, kinda dictate whatever they want, right? Or use their power to manipulate kids in IL, right? Or to be a coach that is not really coached, you know, like, you're not really coaching, you're in it for all of the other things but that kid.

• 57:28Speaker 02

  And so, being somebody like me, who so many people took chances on, right? To make sure I was good or I could just get to the next level. I would say my anger is that there isn't, there is no real ethics, right? There's no real integrity, right? We do this and we always say our goal is to leave the game in a better place than where we found it. And right now, when you look at youth sports, it's in a terrible place. Because people are not thinking about what these kids are gonna be when they grow up. They're not educating them of who they could be when they grow up.

• 58:13Speaker 02

  They're not paving the way so kids can see and meet the various people in the sport they play and say, hey, I don't have to be one of us. I can be any one of these people here. I'm great at art, I can be a great graphic designer and come up with a clothing brand. I'm great with a camera, I can be a great photographer in production. I'm great with numbers, I could be an accountant or work in the team business. Like, we're failing these kids. If we think that winning an AAU tournament or if winning a, whoever wins the football game or whoever wins the football championship, we're failing these kids

• 58:55Speaker 02

  if we're not teaching them, like, the basic fundamentals of how we grew up in sports, football, basketball, like, we do this because we're all good citizens. We're all model citizens, we all care, we all give back, like, we all have the right intentions. And so when that is stripped out of the game, then it's a major concern, because you're not teaching your kids to be anything.

• 59:22Speaker 04

  That's pretty dope. And the question we ask all of our guests is, what's your biggest pivot in life? That's the moment you can look back on and say, because it's happened to me and for me, I am who I am today.

• 59:34Speaker 02

  When I decided that I didn't have to be, or try to be, a gangster to appease my persona, my friends, or whatever, uh, you know, the status quo was, right? I didn't have to do that. And so that, that happened in New Orleans, actually.

• 1:00:00Speaker 01

  Really?

• 1:00:01Speaker 02

  That was my biggest pivot, it happened in New Orleans. And I decided, you know what, man, like, I went to Crossroads.

• 1:00:10Speaker 02

  I don't have to do this.

• 1:00:11Speaker 01

  You were at the Claret Room, that's a private school.

• 1:00:13Speaker 02

  I don't have to like, take care of everybody, I don't have to be hood, I don't have to get caught up in hood politics, I don't have to do none of this shit, like, you know, like, I ain't no gang member, I ain't no mafia boss, I ain't none of that shit, so like, stop looking at me like I am, right? And I went to Crossroads, so I'm going to basically go live my life and do all the things that I want to do, and help all the people that I want to help, and then I'll figure out a way for the kids who need the opportunities, I can just bypass all the bullshit.

• 1:00:46Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:00:47Speaker 02

  And so, I think us all as athletes, especially in our generation, it's like, you going back to the hood, you gotta go through somebody.

• 1:00:55Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:00:56Speaker 02

  You going to his hood, oh, you gotta go through somebody. And I realized, like, man, the dudes that I know are good dudes. The dudes that I know, we talk about sports, we talk about the kids, so like, let me start investing my time into the people that ain't into the bullshit.

• 1:01:15Speaker 01

  That's big.

• 1:01:16Speaker 02

  And let me start spending more time, you know, in this mentality, like, let me create safety for myself, let me create safety and inclusion for my friends, and I got a, I got a real brain, you know what I mean? I'm really smart, like, what the fuck am I doing over here, making myself a target?

• 1:01:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:01:36Speaker 02

  You know?

• 1:01:37Speaker 01

  Man, I appreciate you, bro, just been a long time fan, and, you know, for you to take the time to sit with us and really put effort into being here, that meant a lot to me. I have three rapid-fire questions, though, I want to ask you. Andre Karalinko dunk, biggest play or best dunk of your career, do you have?

• 1:01:55Speaker 02

  Probably best dunk, I would say that, I dunked on my tumble for my 5,000 point. Kevin Garnett, I gotta put that up there, but Karalinko was probably like, that was, that was the most famous dunk, for sure.

• 1:02:06Speaker 01

  Right, like, that was the moment, okay. You, in my opinion, were one of the guards that changed how you could play the one, right? You were explosive, you could shoot it, you could assist, handle. Who are your three top explosive point guards to ever play the game?

• 1:02:25Speaker 02

  Russell Westbrook, because he's, Derrick Rose, I mean, maybe John Morant?

• 1:02:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:02:34Speaker 01

  I gotta put Baron Davis in that, but you kept yourself out of it?

• 1:02:36Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, me, Russell Westbrook, and Derrick Rose, yeah. My fault, I didn't, I was saying, I thought you were saying pick three outside of you. Yeah, me, Russ, and Derrick Rose. Because we can talk about size, explosiveness, power, you know, also finesse and being able to like, not just power dunk, but like, how to speed, the quickness and the footwork to be, you know, those are, those are my guys.

• 1:02:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's crazy. And the last one, best NBA Drew League performance of all time?

• 1:03:03Speaker 02

  You gotta give it to Kobe. Because it wasn't even a Drew League, yeah. Kobe just called people and was like, all the Drew All-Stars, show up. And then, you know, Kobe went off and he winds up getting the ball on James Harden Gardner, and he makes the game-winning shot in the heart of Watts. I think that was at Washington Park, and I think that was probably the biggest Drew moment. And then LeBron was, the day before, was probably the best Drew League performance at the time, yeah.

• 1:03:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, I just wanted to ask you three questions like that, man, that's the first time we've ever done it, but I've been such a fan, and there was so much to try to get into this hour, man.

• 1:03:49Speaker 02

  Nah, I appreciate y'all, man, I'm fans of y'all, shit, I teach my kid, I coach football now. So I'm like, always showing highlights and like, what y'all doing on the media side and, you know, we need more stuff, we need this, this is what we need, real insight, real knowledge, real heart, real passion, and like, the X's and O's, y'all mastered that shit, you know, since you were little, so congratulations to y'all, man, you know.

• 1:04:13Speaker 01

  I tell you what, if you were growing up in this generation, you'd be playing wide receiver.

• 1:04:18Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, for sure. My son is a wide receiver, dude.

• 1:04:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, you'd be playing receiver, dawg.

• 1:04:22Speaker 02

  My, my son is a wide receiver and a safety. He be wanting to hit, he be wanting to hit, but he don't really be hitting, you know? He like to pick you off, take it back.

• 1:04:32Speaker 01

  Bro, that's how you get money, though.

• 1:04:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, he ain't coming down the line smacking, I'd be mad as shit.