Bart Scott former NFL All Pro, Detroit upbringing shaped him, parenting, disliking Nick Saban, the Coach who saved his career, getting fired, standing on business and why speaking his mind comes at a cost

"You either die the hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain." Bart Scott Former NFL linebacker and outspoken media personality Bart Scott joins Ryan, Fred and Channing for an unfiltered conversation about the journey that shaped him — from growing up in Detroit, nearly having his college football career derailed, to becoming one of the most feared defensive players in Baltimore and New York. Bart takes us back to his college days and the pivotal moment when a coach who didn’t believe in him nearly changed the trajectory of his career — and the coach who stepped in, believed in him and helped save his football journey. That turning point became part of the foundation for the mindset that would eventually carry him to the NFL. From Baltimore to the New York Jets, Bart built a reputation as a physical, intimidating defender who played with an edge and brought that same intensity to everything he did. He reflects on his NFL journey, the battles, the personalities and the experiences that shaped him both on and off the field. Now, Bart is known just as much for his voice as he was for his play. He opens up about being unapologetically outspoken, the moments when speaking his mind came with consequences, and what it meant to get fired while refusing to compromise who he is. The conversation goes deeper into what it means to stand on business — knowing when to speak up, when to take accountability and when to bet on yourself even when the decision comes with a cost. Bart also shares his perspective on the rapidly changing media landscape, the evolution of sports talk, authenticity in an era of viral clips and social media, and what it takes to remain yourself while navigating an industry that continues to change. From Detroit to college football, from Baltimore and the Jets to the media world, Bart Scott has never been afraid to be himself. This is a conversation about football, resilience, authenticity, adversity, standing on your principles and having the courage to bet on yourself. Full episode streaming on Netflix now. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02Speaker 00

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• 0:15Speaker 01

  You're gonna become so dangerous that the predators can't help but let you go.

• 0:19Speaker 02

  We're gonna get out of here. We gotta fall. We gotta fall.

• 0:25Speaker 00

  Whale Fall, rated PG-13, in theaters October 16th. Get tickets now.

• 0:30Ryan Clark?

  Whenever you see Bart Scott, you already know what you're getting. What up, though? He's detailed through and through, and he's exactly what the city that made him would produce. Just because Bart Scott grew up in a house full of women, don't take him for soft. His mom worked her butt off, his sisters threw hands with the best of them, and this was not some fluffy, quiet household. Bart learned early on how to stand his ground, and apparently, he never stopped doing so. You might look at Bart and being an undrafted free agent and think that he wasn't that dude in high school, but you'd be wrong. He was a major recruit who just didn't have the test score, so he ended up at a Division I double-A school. And at Southern Illinois, where Bart Scott had one of his biggest pivots of his life: a six-game suspension. Now, because this is Bart Scott, there are no holes barred.

• 1:15Ryan Clark?

  We talked about the people he still says he would fight, the undrafted free agent mindset that followed him throughout his career, playing alongside legends like Ray Lewis and Ed Reed, and why he couldn't wait to get to Pittsburgh. Then came the transition to television, how he found his voice, built his identity on camera, and eventually made his exit from ESPN. Man, be honest, this conversation was too much fun. And thank God we don't have one of those beep buttons, because y'all wouldn't hear half of what Bart said. This is bigger than football, though. This is about life. This is about competition, family, fighting for yourself and fighting other people, and knowing when it's time to make your next move.

• 1:57Ryan Clark?

  So welcome, Bart Scott, to the pivot. What up, though?

• 2:21Ryan Clark?

  Well, here it is, man. Bart Scott, welcome to the pivot.

• 2:24Speaker 04

  Appreciate it, man. Building bridges right here, right?

• 2:26Ryan Clark?

  Yes, sir. This is Channing Crowder, this is Fred Taylor, I'm Ryan Clark. Pivot fam, thank y'all for pivoting with us. I read a quote from you. It reminds me of something Channing always says. This is old now, right? It says, "I ain't Sugar Shane, but this chin has been tested and I'm undefeated."

• 2:43Speaker 04

  Yeah, man.

• 2:43Ryan Clark?

  And I throw haymakers. Talk about, though, man, the toughness that growing up the way you did in Detroit, though, how that hardens a person for that adversity they might face at different points in their adulthood.

• 2:56Speaker 04

  I mean, Detroit's a tough place, right? Motor City, you know, you talk about industries, steel mills, you know, building cars, hot plants, stuff like that, you know? And growing up in the 80s in Detroit, in the height of the crack, in the gang era, you had to be built tough, right? You had to make sure that you were willing to cross that line, you know what I mean? And you had to check people, because if not, you was just gonna have to wear that forever, you know what I mean? So growing up in Detroit and actually being raised by a bunch of women, you know what I mean? Like, my sisters was goons, thugs, you know what I'm saying? Like, I didn't have to go get my cousins. I got my sisters, you know what I'm saying? My sisters walk around, to this day, you run up on my sister, she gonna pull out the strap. And this before, stay on your ground. This was before open carry. She was about that life, you know what I mean?

• 3:40Speaker 04

  But, you know, growing up with sisters and getting your ass kicked by your sisters, like, having a little big brother, y'all friends, y'all play basketball, you got a video game buddy, sisters want nothing to do with their little brothers. But that hardened me, man. You know, my sisters, we got different dads. You know, my sister, like Venus and Serena, one like 5'10", the other one 6'2", 6'1", and they put them paws on you, you know what I'm saying? So like, you know, getting my ass, football was a break.

• 4:04Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 4:05Speaker 04

  This shit was a break, man. Coming out like, I was ready for anything.

• 4:09Ryan Clark?

  I love it, dog.

• 4:09Channing Crowder?

  And being on that field, though, you gotta cross the line, and it's accepted. When did you have to cross that line in real life for the first time?

• 4:16Speaker 04

  I was a habitual line stepper out there, man, you know what I mean? I do a show with Willie Colon, and, you know, I used to always have fun with Willie, because you can always tell when this fat ass was pulling, because he had to, you know, that belly was in the way. So we used to always have this little joke, man. But I knew, like, it was about that violence. When we grew up, it was about getting marks on your helmet, right? It was like, how much paint can you get on your helmet from the other team? It wasn't no take your head out the way it was usual head. You know, and, you know, coming up like you, a smaller linebacker, you know, and understanding that you gotta be able to step on the train track. You gotta commit, just like you are, see? You gotta commit to the punch. You know what I mean? Ain't no, like, throwing jabs, you know? I ain't have enough ass to bring, so I had to bring all my ass, you know what I'm saying? You know what I mean? In college, I was a safety, you know?

• 4:59Speaker 04

  When I finished, you know, I was only 220, and I came in the league right as the league was changing, right? So like, at that point, it was like guys like Ray Lewis and LeVar Kirkland, they were like 290, 260. At 220, it was before, really, the evolution of like the Kellen Winslow's, Antonio Gates. So all the linebackers had to be big, so I just was just stacking on. I was pretty much a special team player. I gotta say something to this man, though, before we even get into it.

• 5:24Ryan Clark?

  Oh, my goodness.

• 5:25Speaker 04

  Nah, no, no, no. You know, because you think like the beef is here, you know what I mean? But it's admiration, because we the same player, we both played on two defenses. Franchises hated each other, but we respected each other at the same time.

• 5:35Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, no doubt.

• 5:36Speaker 04

  When I went there to the Baltimore Ravens, like, I had no idea, like, who was the beef? Who, you know, but y'all used to be in the same division. I never, from organizations that don't fear nobody, that don't give a fuck about nobody, it was on one motherfucker that they would look at.

• 5:52Ryan Clark?

  Yes, sir.

• 5:52Speaker 04

  They look at that injury report like, oh, shit.

• 5:54Ryan Clark?

  Same thing.

• 5:54Speaker 04

  Thank God this motherfucker ain't playing, man. Because you don't get enough credit for what you did in this league and the fear you put in people. Like, the fact that they would take your ass and you just run a go-round, you think, ah, you know, running back go out, empty, little check down, little China seven, some bullshit like that, little sit-down, right, little drag round. This motherfucker running go-rouns, right? It was you and Jimmy Smith, and I got the memo. They was like, listen, these motherfuckers we don't fuck with. These two motherfuckers right here, you know what I'm saying, bring your lunch pail. And thank God, half of the time when we played, you know what I'm saying, he was down. I was like, fuck it, thank God, because I don't want to be on no fucking highlight tape. But I wouldn't even, the crazy part is, I wasn't even starting at that point, you know what I'm saying? I was just a kickoff motherfucker, just watching, but I'm like, man, they scared of this motherfucker?

• 6:37Speaker 04

  And she like, yeah, man, that motherfucker, and Jimmy Smith went for 220 on our ass, like, shit. You know what I'm saying? So I gotta give you your respect.

• 6:44Ryan Clark?

  Hey, that's real.

• 6:45Speaker 04

  I don't think you get enough love, you know what I'm saying, as far as, you know, you, Jamal Lewis, the guys that's like 10,000, you know what I mean? Like, 12,000 yards. Y'all don't get enough love, you know what I mean? I think Terrell Davis kind of represents you guys, and the guys that injury took some of your career. You know, he represents all you guys, and he got in the hall, but you should be on the ballot, man. And we gotta get some better people voting for that shit.

• 7:07Fred Taylor?

  You know, it's crazy, too. And I appreciate that. I really appreciate that. And I've always respected and admired the way you play the game. But that's it, though. Like, those people, they have to validate it to, so you can get the entry, but this is what I respect. We have players, guys that actually say that.

• 7:26Speaker 04

  We know. We know. Everybody else can be fooled.

• 7:28Fred Taylor?

  That's all that really matters the most to me, but I did want to tell you, you and I have something in common. My junior year, I got suspended three games for fucking around. I went down to law school. I went over there with bad intentions. Me and my guy went to get books, so we can resell the books and put a couple dollars in our pocket. That's how I broke up.

• 7:48Speaker 04

  Before NIL, man.

• 7:49Fred Taylor?

  Way before NIL. And you got suspended six games, your junior year, but you're always a little different.

• 7:54Speaker 04

  Yeah, man.

• 7:55Fred Taylor?

  You and the coach was bumping heads. Can you run us through that? Because that actually made you a better person and player, where you were able to take off as a senior in college.

• 8:04Speaker 04

  I see you motherfuckers do your research in short order, too, man. Y'all got a hell of a research department, man. But yeah, I got suspended, kicked off the team my junior year. Like, I was supposed to go to Michigan State, and it's a whole story. You know, Warner Brothers actually owned the rights to my life story, but, you know, Blindside fucked everything up for me. You know, it came out first, so fuck you, Michael Warner. Just bullshit. Fuck it, he got it. But, you know, like, so for me, I was supposed to go to Michigan State, Nick Saban, fuck him too. Yeah, I know he your guy, but he fucked me, sat at the table, this little... You've been around. He's an arrogant motherfucker, man. He hit me, like, this is me getting recruited. I'm a blue tip All-American as a fucking junior. I step in this motherfucker, he got this big ass oak red table and shit.

• 8:46Speaker 04

  This motherfucker crossed his legs and looked at me, straight in my motherfucking eyes. "What can you do for us?" I say, "Do for us, motherfucker? I'm the recruit. You supposed to be selling me to you." "Motherfucker, you supposed to be stopping me from going down to Lori Carr, motherfucker. Fuck you." They hit me with the Bobby Williams bullshit. I didn't pass my, um, test.

• 9:03Fred Taylor?

  Yeah, Bobby Williams, running back coach.

• 9:04Speaker 04

  Yeah, Bobby Williams, that brother, brother shit. Come on, brother, we got you. Motherfucker took my scholarship in a fucking New York minute, man. Fuck him. You know what I'm saying? Fuck him too.

• 9:13Ryan Clark?

  Say, bro, do y'all remember when Clay Matthews got his looks maxed? I'm talking about like ridiculous jawline, balloon biceps, them huge calf implants, which by the way, I wouldn't be mad if I could get some of those.

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• 9:43Ryan Clark?

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• 9:46Fred Taylor?

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• 10:32Speaker 04

  So anyway, I was supposed to go to Michigan State. Uh, I didn't pass my test. Michigan State took my scholarship. And that was the only team that I had committed to. I committed to them as a junior, and that's the only team I committed to. My sister went there, and I came out in a unique time in Detroit. 10 of us actually went to the NFL, which was crazy, right? So like, I don't fuck with Larry Foot, right, your boy, right? So me and Larry Foot go all the way back. So it's not like, I don't fuck with him, but like, me and him ain't...

• 10:58Fred Taylor?

  Fuck you.

• 10:59Speaker 04

  Foot's...

• 10:59Fred Taylor?

  Fuck you too.

• 11:01Speaker 04

  Hey, bro, you don't fuck with nobody, dude. No, what I'm saying is, so like, growing up in Detroit, me and Larry Foot is the same grade. So it was like, who always, who was better? And it kind of carried into the league, right? So he was going to Michigan. So I told Michigan, I ain't going to Michigan. Y'all gave him a scholarship, I ain't taking a scholarship. So I went to Michigan State. So it was supposed to be this big rivalry, like, happen, because Gates, Antonio Gates, went to Michigan State. He was my roommate at Michigan State. People always act like Gates never played football. Like, he just looked at it one day and was like, oh my God, what is this oblong, um...

• 11:32Fred Taylor?

  Boy, man, the pace there.

• 11:33Speaker 04

  Yeah, what is this oblong thing? I shall catch it, you know what I'm saying? This motherfucker been playing football his whole life too. So me and him was supposed to be roommates. He was a Prop 48. Eventually, he left Michigan State, because he was supposed to play basketball and football. You know, I went to Southern Illinois, and I turned down Michigan State. Actually, I went to an All-Star game. They offered me a scholarship, because I set the record for tackles in the All-Star game. So they gave it back, but then I just felt bad that they would take my scholarship that quickly, because I didn't pass my test on the first try. So I go down to Southern Illinois. So like, you know, at this point, people find out that I'm not, you know, uh, that I'm out there again. You know, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State offered me, but I stayed loyal to Southern Illinois. So I fast forward all the way to this event, right?

• 12:16Speaker 04

  So I turned down Oklahoma, I turned down all these other schools to honor my commitment to Southern Illinois that I never took a visit to, right? They offered me a scholarship blindly in August, and I just needed to get in the school. So I go down here, we got this new, uh, I love that I get this, because my, okay. No, no, I love that I get to tell this story, and you guys have a bet platform, because I hope he see this, because I've been trying to get this motherfucker to jump off the fucking roof for like 10 years, you know what I'm saying? So this dude, Mike Vike, piece of shit defensive coordinator. He comes from, I don't even know where the fuck he came from, but he was the defensive coordinator, right? So, so he didn't know shit about me. At this time, this is my junior year. I'm the leading tackler, I'm the all-time guy at Saks. Who gives a fuck, it's Southern Illinois, D1 double slap dick, which Brian Billy call it, right?

• 13:01Speaker 04

  So I'm sitting here, and this motherfucker gonna come to me and say he don't think I'm ready to play. He don't know shit about me, he only been there for like 3 months, right? And so like, he, he put me on the bench, right? So he put me on the bench, and he didn't start me. He started this other dude that was fucking like Latimer, like steroid white boy and shit. He put this motherfucker, and I'm looking like, man, you kidding me? So I'm sitting here watching, we getting our ass whooped, and I'm enjoying every fucking bit of it, right? So I'm like, yeah, so I'm looking at my mom, looking at me in the stands, like, what the fuck? I'm like, so like, alright, so like, I go into the locker room, right? And I'm first, right? Because we losing, so this like, it's like 10 seconds of the clock. I go in the locker room like, fuck this shit. So me, anybody that know me know I'm a slow-ass eater, right?

• 13:44Speaker 04

  You, you had doorknob on there, they'd be like, goddamn, Bart, come on, man. I'm chewing my food slow as shit, it's like they finished and shit. So like, everybody know I'm a slow eater, so I always take an apple. And even in the league, I always take an apple, I have a piece of fruit in there, because I don't eat enough, so I get hungry, like, and I run out of energy. So I put an apple in my, in my, um, in my locker. So I'm in here, going in there, doing my shit, they still out there, but he's the defense coordinator, so he comes from upstairs, and he's down first, right? So his little ass, little, little fucking Napoleon motherfucker, you know how that be? So he like punching shit and breaking shit, so I'm in the corner, just me and him in there, and I'm like...

• 14:22Speaker 04

  So like, this motherfucker like, so he kicking shit, all that, you know?

• 14:28Speaker 04

  So this motherfucker like, what are you doing? I'm like, what you mean I'm doing? I mean the apple. Like, all you do is eat fucking apple. I say, man, I say, man, this apple ain't got shit to do with us getting our ass whooped. You better go make some adjustments or something, right? So like, now people starting to come in, so now this little motherfucker come stand over me. From Detroit, man, I take no levels of disrespect from nobody. Habitual line stepper, my mama told me, listen, if you right, you right, son. So I stood my ass up, you know what I'm saying? I ain't gonna let no man stand the fuck up over me, you know what I'm saying? So I stand up like, this ain't got shit to do with coach and fucking player. Because I know like, you know what I'm saying, we all African, we all from Africa. You know what I'm saying? I know 2 things I ain't never seen.

• 15:10Speaker 04

  I ain't never seen a gazelle or a fucking, uh, uh, fucking, uh, antelope or nothing attack a lion.

• 15:17Fred Taylor?

  Right.

• 15:17Speaker 04

  This motherfucker don't know, he the antelope, I'm the motherfucking lion. This fucking wolf in the jungle, what the fuck you think you doing, dog? So I stand my ass up, you know what I'm saying? And so then he tried to swipe at me. I say, whoa, I say, listen, man, you got one more time to swing this motherfucking apple, and it's gonna be some front energy movement, you know what I'm saying? So then, you know how it is, everybody blow shit out of proportion. Like, players come in and touch me, I say, man, listen, you want, you want this ass whooped? I don't play that touch-he-get-a-punch type shit, you know what I'm saying? Fuck that. So like, I get suspended for 6 games, and like, at this point, I'm a, this, I got nowhere else to go. Like, I'm, I'm a junior, what the fuck I'm gonna do? I'm a D1 double A. And at that time, this wasn't this NIL, go wherever you wanna go to. What the fuck I'm gonna do, go to D2?

• 16:01Speaker 04

  Like, I'm, I'm an econ major, I'm trying to get my fucking degree, or I'm gonna lose credits and go down there and pay for school to go to fucking, you know, fucking NIL school? So I get suspended. This motherfucker tried to stay on as a, uh, coach, so like, first time in my life, right? I dropped to my knees, man, and I was just like, I know what to do. I, I mean, we all got this time in our life where we have to say goodbye to the game. And I just thought maybe it was mine, because first of all, I'm in a small school. Yeah, I'm okay, I'm a good player, but like, I don't know if I'm gonna get an opportunity. And now I'm suspended, so now I got, you know, I've never been in trouble in my life. I've always been a good kid, and now I got this scarlet letter I gotta wear. And this motherfucker tried to stay on with the new coaching staff,

• 16:46Speaker 04

  and tell them, tell them I was, with nothing to look, like I was a cancer and shit. Motherfucker knew me for 3 months.

• 16:51Fred Taylor?

  Right.

• 16:52Speaker 04

  Don't know shit about me honoring my word, not going to fucking Oklahoma. I'm in a D1 double A, I turned down Oklahoma, motherfucker, like, I'm a bad. I, I stand on principle, you know what I'm saying? If I give you my word, just like I told you, you was like, hey, can you come through? Don't even worry about it, you know what I'm saying? I'm like Lisa Ray, I root for everybody fucking black, you know what I'm saying? So it's all good, you know what I'm saying? Any of my brothers, you, anybody call me, they know Bart coming. Now, I ain't gonna communicate with you a lot, you gonna be like, damn, this motherfucker coming, but just like when you come...

• 17:21Fred Taylor?

  Terrible communicator.

• 17:21Speaker 04

  Yeah, I'm a horrible communicator. But soon as you say, where you at? Don't even worry about it, I'm in the fucking tunnel, dog. I said I was gonna be there, you ain't even gotta check with me twice. I'm gonna fucking be there, you just gonna be nervous if I'm gonna be there, because I may not, you know, respond, you know what I'm saying? I got shit to do, you know what I'm saying? So like, you know what I mean? Like, this motherfucker tried to get me kicked off the team, and like, Jerry Kill, and a lot of people out there may know Jerry Kill, because he's the coach that used to have seizures on the sideline a lot. You know, he, he, he left me, and he became the head coach of like Minnesota, turned them around. He was at, uh, Northwestern, turned them around. And he took over for TCU a couple of years ago, he turned that around, but he keep having seizures, so eventually, it kind of took him away from the, from the game. And he told him, like, I was a cancer, and then, you know,

• 18:05Speaker 04

  Coach Kill told, told him that he would judge Bart Scott, uh, based on his self, not what he did. It was the first time in life where football became so important to me, because it was something that I had took for granted. We always, we all treat, treated football at some point in our careers like it was a side bitch, you know what I'm saying? We always treated like it was something that was always gonna be there, we can always go to. But for the first time, I'm like, man, I may not ever play this game again. And it was a relationship that I had had with it since I was 8 years old. So then, it made me value it, right? And I, and I remember dropping on my knees one day, man. And I'm praying to God, like when I got put back on the team, I'd ask God, like, why did he bless me so much when I don't do his work? You know what I mean? He gave me this opportunity. Everybody got fired. You know what I'm saying?

• 18:50Speaker 04

  And moved away and I get this coach that say, man, you know what? I'll judge him on his own principles. And like, you know, to fast forward the story, because the story is a long story. When the Ravens came, only team to come out to my pro day. And they asked like, hey, what was this whole big deal about Bart? And you know, him being a problem, him getting suspended. And what he said, he told the Ravens that if he was to die today, that he would be honored and proud if I would raise his children. You know what I mean? And that removed everything that they ever thought went out, worked out for the Ravens. They didn't believe my test scores. They sent fucking Mike Smith after that. They didn't believe him and here we go. But the story that sparked the movie is Bart Scott's fruitful beginnings. You know what I'm saying?

• 19:34Speaker 04

  It all started from that apple, you know, from Mike White. So fuck you, White. And I see you.

• 19:40Speaker 04

  This is crazy, bro, right? So I'm, I'm, I'm in, no, no, no, no. I'm in Baltimore, right? I'm in Baltimore playing for the Ravens, right?

• 19:48Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 19:48Speaker 04

  So now I'm, I'm that dude now. This motherfucker get a job at, at Morgan State. Right? So now he's sitting down there, walking down the streets, taking credit for my fucking success, right? So we had this, this like receiver back in the day, you can try out for the team. You can try out for the team when, um,

• 20:05Ryan Clark?

  You were local.

• 20:06Speaker 04

  Yeah, when you're local. So like he tried out for the Ravens. So he going back and forth to here. He's like, yeah, man, hey, Bart, you know, Mike White say he coached you, man. He say, you know what I'm saying? I'm like, what? I said, man, tell him this. So he say, Mike White walking down the hallway and he like, um, you know, you know, talking shop with his coaches and shit like that. He's like, hey, man, I ran into Bart. He's like, yeah, what'd he say? He said, when you see in the streets, he gonna whoop your ass. He forgot shit, bitch. And I still knew that. Still knew that.

• 20:31Ryan Clark?

  Bart, no, you can't, you got smoked with everybody, man.

• 20:34Speaker 04

  Well, just smoked with the people I got smoked with. Everybody else is cool, but it's, it's a few. Well, let, let me tell everybody what I've been, well, I've been diagnosed with explosive impulsive disorder. So I keep it calm, but to quote the Avengers, you know what I'm saying? It might be time for you to get mad. I'm always mad. You know what I'm saying?

• 20:53Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 20:53Speaker 04

  So run up, fuck around, find out.

• 20:56Ryan Clark?

  He said, that's the secret.

• 20:57Speaker 04

  That's fucking secret.

• 21:01Speaker 01

  Twentieth Century Studios presents the most incredible survival story of the year.

• 21:08Speaker 01

  Whale Fall on October 16th. To survive the unthinkable, do the impossible. You're gonna become so dangerous that the predators can't help but let you go.

• 21:17Speaker 02

  We're gonna get out of here. We gotta fall. We gotta fall.

• 21:23Speaker 01

  Whale Fall, rated PG-13, in theaters October 16th. Get tickets now.

• 21:28Ryan Clark?

  For, to have that mentality, right? To have gone through what you went through at Southern Illinois. And then you mentioned the Ravens, but at that time they had Ray. Uh, I think Ed Hartwell had got drafted.

• 21:41Speaker 04

  Hartwell, Peter Bowe.

• 21:43Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, the year before.

• 21:44Speaker 04

  Atalius Thomas.

• 21:44Ryan Clark?

  Right, it was, they had backers at that time. Talk about that, that first experience where you said, okay, no, I'm not gonna make this team if I play, if I'm trying to play linebacker.

• 21:57Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 21:57Ryan Clark?

  Tell me about a special teams experience in preseason or something that you felt like, I gotta go do this in order to make this team.

• 22:04Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, first of all, you know, like back in the day, like me and Debo used to go at, you know what I'm saying? You know, me and Debo was like prime, like coward trying to throw Debo on me. And it's like, fuck Debo. You know what I mean? Like he is silverback, I'm a silverback too.

• 22:17Ryan Clark?

  Come on, Jay Harrison.

• 22:17Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, goddamn right. You know what I'm saying? We cut him twice. Y'all cut him, y'all was dumb and we was dumb. You know what I'm saying? Y'all cut him three times, we cut him once. You know what I'm saying? But, um, you know, like going down, I can remember my first game ever against the Lions, right? And you know, this back in the day, you know how it is. Lions, the Giants used to have them fucking wedges. Cause it was all fucking lineman, you know what I mean? It was like 1,200 pounds of fucking shit, right? So they are, I'm the kick side, but you know, now you, you ain't never had.

• 22:43Ryan Clark?

  Hey, they ain't run now, man.

• 22:44Speaker 04

  Yeah, you did. You privileged motherfucker.

• 22:46Ryan Clark?

  I played punt return.

• 22:47Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 22:48Ryan Clark?

  I played punt return.

• 22:49Speaker 04

  We was field nigga, bro. You was in the house. Oh, good. Well, you don't know nothing about that life, Fred T. You know what I'm saying? So like, you know, I'm a fucking wedge buster. You know what I'm saying? So like basically my job is to get on the fucking numbers. I'm number three and I'm supposed to pick the middle pin, just like bowling. I'm supposed to hit the middle pin, ricochet, take some shit out, right? You know what I'm saying? So like I run down that motherfucker and I'm like, fuck it. Two tears in the bucket, fuck it. You know what I'm saying? I'm running down that motherfucker. I hit there, man. And I'm like, all right, my shit, man. I lose my chin strap, I lose my shit. And everybody looking, ooh shit. You know what I'm saying? Like, you know, we do it, dude. Like whoever do it the second time. You know what I'm saying? I ran down that motherfucker. I ran down there even harder. Yak up, knock him out.

• 23:29Speaker 04

  Now I started this way, but when I, you know, kind of came back around to, I was facing this way and all my shit had, like my shit had exploded. And I get, I get in the special team because like this motherfucker is stupid.

• 23:41Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 23:41Speaker 04

  You know what I'm saying? So you know, in the league, it's two things that can you lose, stupid and crazy.

• 23:45Ryan Clark?

  Yep.

• 23:46Speaker 04

  You know what I'm saying? And I was both. You know what I'm saying? So like, I was just basically, and you, for the most part, you know what I mean? Even when I did become that guy, I was fucking Ray Lewis fullback. You know what I'm saying? You had to get the helmet. Like I'm the bubble linebacker. You know how it is. I'm the bubble linebacker. You know what I'm saying? Reduce, all right? Fucking down block. It's like me and the fullback looking at each other. I see you, what the fuck you looking at? What the fuck you looking at? You know what's going on, Tom, it is. You know what's going on. Bet.

• 24:10Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 24:11Speaker 04

  You know what I'm saying? So, you know, that's kind of how I made it. And I remember the day where I, where I changed my career. And you know, you got cut before, I think you got cut before. You know what I'm saying? You count for.

• 24:21Ryan Clark?

  I had a real job.

• 24:22Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what I'm saying? So like, the time, the time was like my third year, man. And it's like, I just had my son and it was just like, I'm tired of fucking, you know, you get tired, you can either accept the circumstances and say, I'm gonna be the best special team player ever. And you say, man, fuck this, right? And I can remember Wale Agunier, we had this conversation before. Shout out to him too. You know, he, he doing big things in the financial department for PBS. I helped you get that job, man. I'm unemployed, help a brother out. You know what I mean? I can do some speaking engagements.

• 24:56Ryan Clark?

  You got something for everybody.

• 24:57Speaker 04

  No, because listen, come on, Wale, well, listen, Wale.

• 25:00Ryan Clark?

  This is the most anybody's ever talked to the camera on the show's history.

• 25:05Speaker 04

  We appreciate getting on your show, brother. Thank you. I need direct contact with this motherfucker. I need him to feel this shit. You know what I'm saying? Cause he the man now. I'm unemployed, right? So like Wale, I used to do the, I used to work for Morgan Stanley, global sports entertainment. You know what I'm saying? We did over 50,000, you know, uh, student athletes. I had LeBron in my thing. I had Dak Prescott, I had all that shit. You know what I'm saying? And I gave, you know, I'm not a gatekeeper. I gave Wale the sauce. Met with him and his, uh, in PBS, right? Met with him. You know what I'm saying? You got that job, brother. I emailed you, man. What's up? Brother needs some speaking engagements, man. Need some cheese on my motherfucking taco. What was he talking about?

• 25:41Ryan Clark?

  Put some cheese on my.

• 25:42Speaker 04

  Put some cheese on my motherfucking taco, Wale. You know what I'm saying? You got, you got the power. But what was he talking about?

• 25:47Ryan Clark?

  You were telling us the day you changed your career.

• 25:49Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah, yeah, that shit. Right? So like, I remember like we was at Price's, I was like, man, listen, I'm tired of fucking running out on special teams. Like what really fucked with me is that Ed left and became the highest paid linebacker for the Falcons. And I've been waiting in line and they fucking skipped me in the line and brought in Tommy Polly. I'm like, motherfucker, Tommy Polly? I say TP, oh, you Florida State motherfucker, you know?

• 26:12Ryan Clark?

  Nah, I'm Florida.

• 26:13Speaker 04

  Yeah, Florida. Yeah, I'm like TP, I'm like Tommy Polly. You know what I'm saying? First of all, fattest skinny dude you ever met in your life, man. I'm like, this motherfucker built like, like Slenderman or some shit, man. Anyway, shout out Tommy Polly, man. But, uh, like they just put Tommy Polly in front of him. So I'm like, all right, you know what? So I remember like going up to Chester Taylor, man. And I went to everybody before training camp. And I was like, yo, I said, protect yourself, brother. I said, man, because I'm tired of fucking being overlooked. I say, listen, I'm gonna, so buckle your shit up. I say, I'm gonna knock every motherfucking body out. Either two things gonna happen. Either they gonna play me or they gonna cut me. And like, I think Chester thought I was bullshitting. You know what I'm saying? So first play, we got sweep. And I come in that bitch Bobby Boucher. You know what I'm saying? Man, I hit that motherfucker so hard.

• 26:58Speaker 04

  Chester rolled all the way over on, like we, we, we had a college field. So you know how the track go. I hit that motherfucker inbounds. That motherfucker rolled on the track. You know what I'm saying? And that motherfucker threw the ball. I say, yo, Chester from River Rouge, not quite Detroit, but close enough. You know what I'm saying? We used to call him 50, right? You know what I'm saying? 50 always and some shit. You know what I'm saying? But, um, you know what I'm saying? He throw the ball at me. I'm like, that's one. Next play, same shit. And they, they put me out of practice and shit like that. And then, you know, they put me on the short yardage goal line package.

• 27:27Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, you had to earn it though.

• 27:28Speaker 04

  Yeah, goddamn right.

• 27:29Ryan Clark?

  I get it. Hey, next time you talk to Willie, ask him about his first goal line in Pittsburgh.

• 27:34Speaker 04

  You blessed his ass?

• 27:35Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, he pulled and I said, hey, man, they talking like I can't play.

• 27:38Speaker 04

  See?

• 27:39Ryan Clark?

  They go fear it out.

• 27:39Speaker 04

  He pulled, right? He knew, you knew he was pulling. Fat ass, fat ass pulling. Right? He used to be like this. I'm like, Willie fat ass pulling. Cause I'm like all this way back here. He like, fuck you, Bart. Kelly like, thanks. Kelly, bring everybody out there. Sorry, no.

• 27:57Ryan Clark?

  But, but, but to walk into a Ray, into a Da'lelson, and like you said, you was that dude. I had to come from Florida, All-American, everything. And then I'm looking at Junior Zach like, hmm, these motherfuckers are better than me at football. Like what, what was that realization and did that fuel what you talking about with Chester?

• 28:15Speaker 04

  Well, for me, like it, it started well before that, man. Like I'm big on respect, man. Like, like just don't disrespect me, man. I'm gonna show you respect. Just, just don't, don't sun me and don't disrespect me. Right? I got, it's also like, I remember getting on the fucking bus as an undrafted free agent. Everybody got like, oh, Notre Dame, they got, you know, this Ed Reed's draft. You got this Anthony Weaver's draft. You got fucking Anthony Weaver, Notre Dame. You got Ed Reed popping on the bus and shit like that. We all get picked up from the airport before we go to mini camp. And I step on that bitch and I'm, at this point, I'm like 230. Listen, I had to put on 12 to be 230. And they looking at me like, who's this motherfucker? You know what I'm saying? You know how they, you know how they look down on you? I said, oh, bitch, you gonna fuck around and find out. You know what I'm saying? It didn't take long. You know what I'm saying?

• 28:59Speaker 04

  Like for me to like, to do that, I had to attack that first, right? I had to attack the J R Johnsons of the world. You know what I'm saying? The, the, the, cause he from Syracuse. I had to, I couldn't look at Ray. That, that, that was, I mean, I'm in that motherfucking doing, he does it in college. You know what I'm saying? I'm like, I see this motherfucker. You know what I'm saying? Like, I can't even look at.

• 29:19Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, that's, that's all the fun that you can think.

• 29:21Speaker 04

  This Kareem drew a dude Jabbar in the Bruce Lee movie and shit. I gotta get to that. That's seven floors shit, motherfucker. I just walked in. You know what I'm saying? So like, really it was about learning about that, right? And they were coming off that great tradition, you know, the 2000 defense and all that stuff. And the reason why I picked the Ravens is because I knew that I would have a better chance. And you say, well, Bart, how would you have a better chance at there? Remember they had just lost Rod Woodson. They had just lost Shannon Sharp. They had just lost, uh, Dwayne Starks. They had just lost all those guys because of the purge. They lost Jamie Sharper to the expansion draft because of the Houston thing. So like, I knew that they would have to be, you know, take young players and I, so we were the youngest team in NFL history. So strategically I, I turned down like Ozzy.

• 30:05Speaker 04

  I just gave me $500 signing bonus, you know what I'm saying? Like, yeah, that's some bullshit, man.

• 30:09Ryan Clark?

  Mine was a thousand, though.

• 30:10Speaker 04

  Yeah, but, but, but this is the thing. They offered me a thousand and this motherfucker called me back and took back 500 to get a little dip. I say, God, man, I say.

• 30:19Ryan Clark?

  Little dip started though as like a rookie.

• 30:22Speaker 04

  Yeah, that's because they're, that's because, yeah, yeah, but I'm like, brother.

• 30:25Channing Crowder?

  When y'all get that money, do they give y'all a check or just pay it out cash?

• 30:28Speaker 04

  I almost said the N-word, man. This one, that's what I said. This motherfucker gave me a check and took taxes out. I say, man, I say, Oz, you could have gave me out of the pocket, man. My shit was 321 after taxes. I don't know what kind of state tax, private tax you got.

• 30:46Ryan Clark?

  Mine was 624?

• 30:48Speaker 04

  Yeah, Pittsburgh a little bit more nice, you know what I'm saying? But you see what I'm saying? It's funny how you remember that type of shit because I, I, when I went back to get my second contract, I made Ozzy put that 500 back in. I said, yeah, yeah, my second contract with Ray, I said, man, yeah, plus 500, motherfucking you.

• 31:05Speaker 04

  Ozzy known for that. I love you, Ozzy. Ozzy known for that shit. I remember Ozzy was signing Gary Baxter. Gary Baxter was a big ass corner we had and shit like that.

• 31:14Ryan Clark?

  I remember.

• 31:14Speaker 04

  And Gary came out and Ozzy said, meet me at McDonald's. And it was supposed to be 10 million dollars. Man, he gave him a check for 7 million. He said, man, that ain't 10 million dollars, Ozzy. Ozzy fucking country city slicker Alabama's ass. Ozzy would get him, man. We'd be like, God, get him, Ozzy. Yeah, man, but yeah.

• 31:33Fred Taylor?

  I can vouch, and I'm sure they can vouch too and say, this has probably been the most entertaining episode that we've ever, ever done, but it's just that.

• 31:40Speaker 04

  Can we just talk and shit?

• 31:41Fred Taylor?

  I know that's true, a, a, and it's just that. People know the personality.

• 31:45Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 31:45Fred Taylor?

  You know, Bart Scott. Uh, which brings me to ask, what's the biggest misconception that, you know, uh, people have of you that you felt no need to correct and pretty much to say?

• 31:57Speaker 04

  Well, they think I'm, they think I'm a mean person. Anybody that know me, like, it's a, when you're small, you're underrated, it's a switch that you have to turn on. You know what I'm saying? You, you have to become that monster, you know what I'm saying? You have to turn that, that fearlessness off, you know what I mean? But, you know, off the field, like, people wouldn't, if I wouldn't have said it, nobody would have known I worked for Morgan Stanley. Nobody would know I have an economics degree. Nobody would have known I studied like Japanese and, you know, international, but nobody would know that type of stuff. They just think I'm a goon, you know what I'm saying? You know what I'm saying? That, that's why I came in here in a non-goon, you know what I'm saying, outfit, so they can know, you know what I'm saying? I'm sophisticated.

• 32:30Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 32:30Speaker 04

  You know what I'm saying? But, like, they think, like, people think I'm some angry person, you know what I mean? That's the person that I have to be. That's the, you know, and I, I can remember, like, I, I saw when you addressed, you know, that we both got let go on ESPN, and you addressed that inner child in you, right? And how you had those, those things that we carry. Well, you know, I was born out of a fair, right? I didn't meet my sister until I was 16, so I always thought I wasn't worthy, right? So I overcompensate, right? So like, if somebody's smart, I'm gonna show that I'm a smartass. If like, we trying to like, who can get the most ladies, I'm gonna show y'all I can get the most ladies, right? Because that's the insecurity in me that feel like I have to prove my worth, right? And prove that I'm worthy. And like, my life has been a repeatance of that, right?

• 33:14Speaker 04

  The only time I felt like I was chosen, uh, was when I first retired and CBS came to me, right? CBS came to me and that was the first, that's why it was super uncomfortable for me, right? Because it was the first time that somebody sought out for me for a position that was big. My entire life has been about being an underdog.

• 33:30Ryan Clark?

  Having to prove it.

• 33:30Speaker 04

  So, yeah, having to prove it, have to work for it. So like, it was uncomfortable for me when I got the CBS gig because I almost didn't feel worthy, even though I had earned the right by what I've done off the field and what I've done leading up to that, right? And like, and that kind of like, took me through with them, like, you know, me and, me and Ryan have this unique, you know, correlation with stuff, right? Because, you know, what I love about The Pivot is that it shows that, you know, a show can be carried by three African-Americans. And what I hate when I went into that business, it has to be this old outdated formula, Phil. It's gotta have a white quarterback, you gotta have like, the white coach, you can have only a couple of black people on there.

• 34:12Speaker 04

  Now, some may have two, but you can't have, and I, I hate that because the biggest regret of my career was when I first went there, I was on TOPS. They called me up to the big show because I was, I was gonna pull, pull a Jason Witten because I had tore my toe up and had ricostal surgery. So I planned to like retire for a year, do TV and then go back and play. Yeah, I planned on, the Seattle Seahawks wanted me, but I wasn't clear because I, I had total, total reconstruction, fucking around with pouncy punk ass. Yeah, man, fucking fat fuck, man.

• 34:44Speaker 04

  He jumped on my back, like, so like, I made his ass miss. I hit him with the L2EE. And so like, I, I tackled Reggie Bush and like, he jumped on my back. And when he jumped on my back, all my weight went up and my foot went up and my toe went all the way back and it tore, it tore the bone off and the, and the, and the ligaments. I had to get a total reconstruction. To this day, my toe don't touch the ground. That shit is like, it's getting a little bit. And I can't bend it no more because I have a screw here and I, you know, and, but I was gonna come back though, you know what I'm saying?

• 35:13Ryan Clark?

  With the hunger and toe?

• 35:14Speaker 04

  Yeah, it, man, it was the worst shit ever, man. My dumb ass played 13 games on it. I hurt it the same game that Reepah's got hurt and blew his knee out. I did it the same game, but I, my dumb ass, you know, I had that record where I played 183 games straight, I don't know, whatever. And I'm just dumb like that, you know what I'm saying? I, I, I played anyway. Like, I thought, you know, I was gonna go back and, and play, but then they offered me the, the spot on the big role. And I thought that I was gonna get opportunity, it was supposed to be, I thought me and Shannon Sharp was gonna be on the same set, you know what I'm saying? And like, we used to do the, like, segments together, uh, and I can remember James Brown, who we all know and respect, one of the nicest gentlemen in the world in his business, right? And he said some of the best football talk he ever heard was when me and Shannon was

• 35:59Speaker 04

  on there arguing with each other. You know, we, we got similar personalities, but a little different, you know what I'm saying? Like, man, you have similar personalities, but different, you know what I mean? And like, I just hated that the industry wouldn't allow us two to work together at the same time, right? And like, that's what I hate about our business is that they don't allow like, loquacious, allow black people more than one seat.

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• 36:53Ryan Clark?

  Can I ask you this question though? Because I'm starting to see it, we've only done The Pivot Sports Show two times, right? And we wanted to create this space where it was just like us and we could talk and chop it up. And I was talking to Chan one day, just here, and we were just doing some stuff. And I said, hey, man, when we start the show, like, that's the you I want.

• 37:14Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 37:14Ryan Clark?

  Right? I want you to be the dude I talk to every time. And now, when me and you were offsetting, we talk, this is how we would talk. And then we get on TV and you kind of have to feel your way through TV.

• 37:26Speaker 04

  Put us in a cage.

• 37:26Ryan Clark?

  Like, this dude, like, this dude right here, I think that dude could go anywhere right now and be a star. How did you attack trying to, because it's not dumbing yourself down, but trying to fit into this box that you felt TV was because you got the job because of this?

• 37:44Speaker 04

  Yeah, I felt like Django, man. Like, you, you signed me because you saw the can't wait, you saw like, listen, those were, whatever you want to say about whether you like it or they like, those were some of the hottest bars spit off the top of the dome, you know what I'm saying? Those were straight bars off the dome and that was me, right? And, you know, we grow up differently and I think sometimes we not a, we not allowed to be ourselves, we have to conform ourselves. And like, they muted me and like, going to CBS was like being like, going to like Cranbrook, you know what I'm saying? Like, I couldn't let myself out. And the only time they would let me let myself out is when I was on a segment with Shannon and we talked about our socks fashion. Like, it's okay, we all communicate differently. We, we from a different place. You from the south, you from the south, you from the, I'm from the Midwest.

• 38:29Speaker 04

  And I think together, that's some dope shit, to be able to talk and have their personalities because they assume that all loud black people are the same. But you come and talking about alligator and shit like that, I'm talking about gators on my feet, you know what I'm saying? You know what I'm saying? Like, but, you know, so you bring a unique perspective, but they, but because they hear the noise and the volume, they think we're the same, but we not. So they put us in these boxes. So they say, okay, Shannon, Bart, Charles Barkley, we gonna put over here, you know what I'm saying? And they say like, okay, let, let me say, they'll, they'll probably be putting Russell Wilson, you know what I mean? They gonna put quiet guys that's respected, they gonna put over there in the Fred T-box, you know what I'm saying? And then over here, they gonna put like, okay, Articulate come in, they gonna say, okay,

• 39:11Speaker 04

  we gonna take, uh, Nate Burleson and we gonna take, you know, because guys who can host, got versatility that can do certain things, we gonna put them in around, and that's all, right? But it's new ones. You a little bit of Nate Burleson, but you a little bit of, of Shannon too. That, that, but they never allow that part to come out unless you do your top 10 list on Stephen A. because you're around another guy where you can be and show your flair.

• 39:31Ryan Clark?

  That's real.

• 39:32Speaker 04

  Because they don't think that people can handle our sauce. But what I'm saying is that what I'm hoping that comes from you guys getting y'all Pivot show, that somebody looks at, man, maybe we should have a channel that's based on the 70% of the representatives of, of the league, be able to have their own show and be able to do it how they want to do it. And then we don't have to put them in boxes. If they, if they rock with this person, that person, that person, they can have a show. I hated the dumb downness of, of, of our industry, right? It's all about make a hot take, say something funny, all right, let's go, all right, let's go, right? You know, and I know, that there's levels to this. Like, everybody that played in the league ain't smart. Like, you had dumb players, right?

• 40:14Speaker 04

  That you had to be a phonier friend, you had to have a fucking think buddy, right? So like, and, and we know it when we talk. You know that I know that we know what the fuck we talking about. That we know defense and schematics, we can draw that shit up, we can teach you, we can coach you. Some of them motherfuckers couldn't fucking coordinate or coach their way out of a wet paper bag. And we know the motherfuckers, but they, but they sound good and they, they can tap dance and they can present good. And then like, have these motherfuckers don't even have resumes, like, it's one thing, I always said. That you can say it. But can you show me how you did it through that, through this? Through that face mask? Like you talking theoretically. Like, so when you, so like when he say something, I say something, I gotta respect it.

• 40:58Speaker 04

  Cause I know he's, he's speaking from it, from the field of it.

• 41:01Channing Crowder?

  Same thing.

• 41:02Speaker 04

  A lot of these motherfuckers, a lot of these motherfuckers on the tube talking that shit. And they was over there eating popcorn chewing sunflower seeds. You know what I'm saying? Like, oh, and then, then, so that's when they, when they criticize people, I'm like, this motherfucker saying some shit? I can't believe it.

• 41:16Channing Crowder?

  Bro, I've been telling them all the time when they be like, hey Crowder, you got the tight end. No, no, no, that's Antonio Gates.

• 41:21Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 41:21Channing Crowder?

  That's a bad decision on this part. Like, we, we need to change this defense, but that's part of what you saying.

• 41:26Speaker 04

  Now, if we want to bracket this bitch, now if my DN gonna chip this motherfucker? I hold him to come out so he get to me?

• 41:31Channing Crowder?

  I look back at the safety so fast.

• 41:33Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, you better win this one, man. Hey, really, hey, really, lock that shit. Hey, you on me? You, see, and that's what I hate, like.

• 41:41Ryan Clark?

  But even that conversation would go where people's head though.

• 41:44Speaker 04

  Yes, and that's what I'm saying. They would tell me on TV when I was with CBS, they're like, man, you gotta dumb it down, man. Like you talking this like point extra shit. But I'm like, bro, I played with, around, I've been around some of the greatest defensive minds in history from a player and a coach standpoint. You know what I mean? Like you want me to dumb myself down and they, and I don't know how to dumb myself down. And one, this is one thing I'm horrible at. I'm horrible at shucking and jiving with motherfuckers that make decisions to befriend them so that they can stand on the table for me. Cause that's not me. I'm not gonna be your boy just to kiss some motherfucking ass. That's not me. I'm not gonna hang out, I ain't playing golf with you, I don't golf, motherfucker. And I ain't coming out to golf, ain't spending, ain't spending night over your house. Ain't doing none of that shit.

• 42:25Speaker 04

  Cause I only, only, only place I'm spending is house over for some butt cheeks. You know what I'm saying? You know what I'm saying? I'm not staying over your motherfucking house.

• 42:34Channing Crowder?

  I hope them, we good, we good.

• 42:35Speaker 04

  Fuck I wanna do, have a fucking slumber party with a grown ass man. Motherfucker, I work way too hard to be slumming up in the goddamn, what the fuck, I'm supposed to sleep on your futons? And kiss my goddamn ass, man. What the fuck you talking about?

• 42:46Fred Taylor?

  I think this is a good time to split the room. Which is what RC always do. And, and just, just thinking about that and the, the things that you two have in common.

• 42:57Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 42:57Fred Taylor?

  You know, uh, being undrafted, wanting or deserving to be at the table, but not doing the bullshit to, to get a seat at the table.

• 43:04Speaker 04

  I just can't, man.

• 43:05Fred Taylor?

  Right, the AFC North, all, all that sexy shit, right? But also both you guys were fired from the same network. You're talking about the box and them putting you in the box. Not necessarily always a good thing because his box was deleted. And you, I'm not sure how you found out about being let go or what have you. Can you take us through that moment when you found out?

• 43:27Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, I was, I was actually walking into my job, to my radio show, you know what I mean? And I kinda knew what was going on. Listen, this is not my first time being fired, it's not my first time being fired. I mean, Nate Burleson basically essentially took my job, right? Because Tony Romo left the field and they always wanted Tony Romo, so they had to figure out a place where to put Phil Simms. And that's just how it goes. I don't complain about that, I couldn't care less, you know what I'm saying? I was blessed for the opportunity, blessed for the platform. This space is just as competitive as the one that we're on in the field, right? Because it's limited spots and it's always new guys coming out that's cheaper, that's hotter, and, and, and that's more relevant or more relevant to the, the new fan base that they're selling to, fresh off the field, right? And it's not always about who's the most talented. There's, it's never been about that.

• 44:12Speaker 04

  Like it's nepotism within this, it's, you know, it's good old boys club within this. And I, I accept it. I can't change the rules, right? That's why I love the fact and the quote that you had, you know what I mean? That they, they didn't give you a place at the table, so you created your table. You know what I mean? And I think it's gonna inspire other people to wanna do the same, right? You see like the young guys, and sometimes we criticize these young guys for podcasts, Marlon Humphreys, you know, Michael Parsons. But you know, they're essentially trying to make sure that when they step off, they understand the business enough that they can make their own space and table, right? But yeah, I definitely was, me and walking in and they was like, well, you know, if you want, you can finish the show. I say, shit, you crazy as hell, you gonna fire me and think I'm gonna show up for work? I always told, I always told my job when I was playing in the league, I say, man, you fired me, you better fire me on my day off.

• 44:56Speaker 04

  You fire me at the practice, I'm whooping some ass, you know what I'm saying? Cause you disrespect, you knew all day, like you were saying what's up to me, and I'm running around, that you was gonna fucking fire me.

• 45:04Channing Crowder?

  Yeah.

• 45:05Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, I got, yeah, I got a problem with that, motherfucker, you know what I'm saying? That's why I always laugh, like, you know, because we all gonna get fired, right? Everybody gets fired. Mike Tomlin got, you know, he essentially got scooted out. Harbaugh got fired, like, you know, you know, Chuck Noll got fired. It, it all happens, right? You either die the hero or live long enough to be, see yourself become the villain. Um, so I had no problems with that, you know what I mean? And I kinda understood, and we kinda get indicators in this industry like the year before. Like, once I saw, uh, Steve Smith on our show, like, hmm, okay. Once I saw like Jermell McCoy, like, hmm, that looks a bit fishy. How, how that's gonna work when the season come?

• 45:45Speaker 04

  And then, once they changed my spot, see, the, the, the thing is, you know, we all, and Chuck, Charles Barkley kinda made a joke about it. ESPN gonna give you your money, they gonna work the dog shit out of you to give it to you, right? And then, when I couldn't offer that, because they changed my time slot from my radio show from 12 to 3, to 10 to 1, which meant, which meant I can't do first take.

• 46:08Channing Crowder?

  Yeah.

• 46:09Speaker 04

  Right, so now, now they're like, we paying this guy, he only doing one show, and I'm going to do my radio show, but ESPN don't really care about radio. You know what I'm saying? This is a TV network, you know what I'm saying? And so, when they did that, I knew like I was on borrowed time. So I was already kinda preparing myself mentally about what was going on. But, you know, some of the greatest blessings come out of being fired, right? Because sometimes God gotta move things out of your way so you can see what's next. Because like, RC, when you, when did you start TV? I mean, officially when you retired.

• 46:37Ryan Clark?

  When I retired, uh, 15.

• 46:39Speaker 04

  15, so like I started in 13, and I, I moved right to the top, CBS pregame show.

• 46:44Ryan Clark?

  We had this conversation, yeah.

• 46:45Speaker 04

  I moved, I moved right there, right? So like, I was around and I knew that social media was important, I knew, so if anybody should have been first, it should have been me. But I didn't pay attention to the room because I was just so happy that I was part of the machine.

• 46:59Channing Crowder?

  Got it.

• 47:00Speaker 04

  That I didn't think about, you know, sometimes you get so caught up with, hey, man, I'm a part of this, thinking it won't, it will, will last forever. We all hope to be, think we gonna be Boomer Sison, Collinsworth, right? Guys that stay and stick forever, right? And it's just like, they just keep reprinting their contract.

• 47:15Channing Crowder?

  Right.

• 47:16Speaker 04

  You know what I mean? That's usually, in my opinion, because the executives were fans of them. You know what I'm saying? So the people in power have a connection and a childhood, like admiration for them. And those same guys don't have that admiration for us, right? So, you know, I kinda understood that that's what it was and, you know, here we are. But I wouldn't have got my podcast with Willie Cologne. And it's my opportunity to grow something on my own.

• 47:38Channing Crowder?

  Correct.

• 47:39Speaker 04

  Right, and, and, and step away. And quite honestly, I don't really wanna work like, like that, you know what I'm saying? I don't mind putting in the work, but we play sports so long and it consumes all of us. And it's kinda selfish what we take away from our family, right? And at the end of the day, when you die, they gonna put on that, he lived, he was born this day, he died this day, and they gonna step over your ass. And they not gonna care about you two weeks later.

• 48:06Channing Crowder?

  Yeah.

• 48:06Speaker 04

  Right, it's your family that gotta carry that, those memories that you missed out on and the opportunities that you missed out on. So, I mean, I'm cool with, you know, building my platform here and starting it from here and, and see where it goes. I don't have to be part of the machine to be relevant.

• 48:21Channing Crowder?

  And something you said that I done asked him before, cause he, like that undrafted thing sticks with him, you know, always feeling overlooked. You said, I'm the underdog and all.

• 48:28Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 48:28Channing Crowder?

  Does that shit ever leave y'all?

• 48:30Speaker 04

  Hell no.

• 48:30Channing Crowder?

  Because, bro, but no, you go undrafted, but then you go ball, you become a pro bowler, he becomes a pro bowler. Y'all win chat, y'all win stuff, y'all make your name in football, then you go up to the top of the media. Like, you can't, you can't let go of that underdog shit sooner or later. You're not, to be honest, can you admit you're not the underdog anymore?

• 48:46Speaker 04

  Nah, it's that first impression, motherfuckers, that's what.

• 48:49Channing Crowder?

  And that's insecurity, you're, you're making your insecurity into power.

• 48:53Speaker 04

  Don't Mike Jones me, man. Now I'm hot, motherfucker, you didn't root for me, you know what I'm saying? You weren't looking for me, you know what I'm saying? Now I'm here, nah, nah, man, you know, there ain't no space on these balls. You know what I'm saying? Somebody already there, you know what I'm saying? I want, I want my day ones, you know what I'm saying? Because no matter what, they always look at you like that. Like, that's why when you come in as a first-rounder, you get so many more opportunities and they, they never take your salary below a certain point. When you, when you're undrafted free agent, you gotta fight to get to a point like, damn, they're like, hey, look, man, look where you coming from. You know what I'm saying? So they, they, they kinda, you know, listen, they, they, they set the rules of the game. I just, I just pay attention to it, I can't change the rules. That's how people see it, you know what I mean? Like, it's how you remember when you come in, you know what I mean?

• 49:32Ryan Clark?

  I always said, my thing was, when I would try to explain to people, when you're undrafted, you spend your entire career trying to prove to people that you belong.

• 49:42Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 49:42Ryan Clark?

  Like trying to prove, yeah, you trying, you trying to prove to people that you can actually play. When you go first round, you gotta prove over and over again that you can't.

• 49:50Speaker 04

  Like, no, no, no, give him another chance.

• 49:51Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, like you gotta keep, you gotta keep showing them. And like, I would, I would be, and I would be like, man, I'm way better than this dude.

• 49:57Speaker 04

  Listen, we love Deshaun Watson, but he hasn't played great football in five years. This motherfucker, he gonna get it, just what he did the other day, maybe he can get it back. Like, he gonna be able to get another job after Cleveland. And then, listen, I'm rooting for you, Deshaun, cause he's 31 years old. I lo, I love, you know another thing I hate? Yeah, you know, I got, I.

• 50:16Channing Crowder?

  You was about to say I love, but then you had to go to I hate.

• 50:18Speaker 04

  Yeah, no, no.

• 50:20Speaker 04

  One thing I hated about my experience with like CBS, I think the time where they, because I felt like they thought they were gonna use me like a puppet and I reversed Uno, draw two, fuck you, Uno out, there's. They put me on there with Gayle King, right? And this was after the Ray Rice incident. So what they wanted was crazy, can't wait, oh, can't believe this, he beat his wife, he should be banned, blah, blah, blah, right? And they wanted that, and I can tell that they were setting me up for that. But if they would've did their opposition research, they would've known that I was a teammate of Ray. They knew I was a teammate. You know, some guys that was his teammates, I ain't gonna mention nobody, Ray, no, I'm just saying.

• 51:01Speaker 04

  But like, didn't like, didn't, didn't hold in and lock in, you know what I'm saying? This, this type of friend I am. And I'm just fucking Ray, we all fuck Ray. But I'm type of friend, when the world is against you, even though I would be against you, I'mma support you, and then I'mma be against you and take you to the side after the fact, after I help you through the storm. I ain't gonna abandon you, you know what I'm saying? I'mma walk with you through the storm, and I'm saying, man, what you did, I can't, I can't rock with that, we gonna have to build, I'm, I'm out to step away, but you're good now, right? Now, it's up to you to do the work to prove that you're worthy of me to come back in your life. But I ain't gonna fucking abandon you. So they wanted me to throw Ray underneath the bus and step on him and like build it so they can have these big clips.

• 51:43Speaker 04

  And I refuse, because I'm a believer that no man should be judged by his worst moment, right? So that was his worst moment. And what I'm also not gonna do is, I'm not gonna pile on when the world's piling on. And you have to always ask yourself, when somebody does something bad, is this a bad person doing a bad thing? Or is this a good person that had a bad moment? And I knew that Ray Rice was a good person that had a bad moment, which we all can do impulsive things, you know what I'm saying? That can be a bad moment, we shouldn't be defined by that. And I hated that the industry tried to pit me against him and tried to use me for clickbait. And I refused to do it, and I can tell, and I can look at her face when she, when she was trying to get out of me, what she wanted to get out of me.

• 52:28Speaker 04

  But I was, I've been around the game too long, too savvy, you know what I mean? Been around like these crazy ass reporters that try and get you, especially in New York, they try and get you to say shit and use their journalistic tricks that don't work on me, because I'm not some Neanderthal, right? And, and to this day, I don't think, I think that Ray Rice has lived his apology. You know what I'm saying? I think, you know, what Ray Rice, what I had knew about Ray Rice, he had took my charity over, you know, which was Helping Out Mission, Men of Addiction and Affliction, that we still do, 500 people, we've been doing it for 22 years. And when I became a Jet, I couldn't be there, and he took over for me, and I knew him from the anti-bullying program and stuff like that. And him and his wife are still together, they've since had more children, and he still is an advocate for domestic violence, and he, he led this thing. But the industry do stuff like that.

• 53:13Speaker 04

  And then like they set us up, but they don't care about the relationship that they could've, uh, you know, could've ruined between me and Ray Rice, they just wanna use me as a puppet.

• 53:21Ryan Clark?

  And I think the other thing is, if you're a real friend, you have those conversations in private. I can hold you accountable. You know what the responsibility of your position as a husband, as a father is, and we can have that conversation. I don't need to drag you because it elevates me at some point. I know we, you know, about to go in a second. I want to question, what does having a classmate or schoolmate that's 12 years old get shot 10 times due to a young person? Like, what does having, like, uh, uh, growing up in a place where that can happen?

• 53:57Speaker 04

  You followed that story too?

• 53:58Ryan Clark?

  Yes.

• 53:59Speaker 04

  Damn, y'all good, man, give me some of that, man. Y'all got a former CIA agent?

• 54:05Ryan Clark?

  I just did it myself, but like, what, I can't imagine that.

• 54:08Speaker 04

  That was crazy, man. They were trying to tell us not to, um, be in gangs. And man, the crazy part is he lived. Somebody like, that's how big the gang violence was in Detroit, man, like, 12 years old, 13 years old, you, you, you, you in this gang. Like, you the ops, like, and they shot this dude. And like, they held up his shirt, his bloody shirt with holes in it, man, like, his shirt with holes in it, man. It's like, you know, don't, you know, listen, this is, don't, this is not what you want, you know what I mean? And it's, it's impactful, right? And, you know, I grew up with that all around me, you know?

• 54:49Speaker 04

  My cousin got shot, uh, like, right, like, right next to my house, you know? Guys got shot all the time, and it's just like the way of life, right? And it, it, it heartens you, but it also lets you know that that, you know, that's not what you wanna be a part of, right? You know, part of my motivation for being successful was the fact that I didn't want to tell them that, hey, man, work hard, go to school, study, and you can, you can leave this place. And then you can come back and you can make it better. And what I didn't wanna do is fail, because then they would call me a liar, right? So that was my motivation, like, man, I gotta prove to everybody that it's another way, right?

• 55:34Speaker 04

  And, you know, I feel fortunate enough that, you know, it's three other guys from my high school since that have gone there, uh, going to the league, Jonathan Hankins and, um, uh, Will Goldston, you know, both came from my high school. The year that I came out, Larry Footwin, of course, myself, Chester Taylor, Ron Johnson, Javon Hunter, Anthony Adams, Glenn Sumter, um, like, eight of us proved that, um, lightning can strike. Because they, they, you know, the teachers, when I told I wanted to be in the NFL when I was a kid, told me I had a greater chance of being struck by lightning. And I'm glad that I can prove that lightning can strike multiple times.

• 56:12Channing Crowder?

  Growing up like that, and then having kids now, I'm struggling. Like you said, we have very similar personality, you call, some people call it dumb, some people call it crazy, whatever you wanna say. But like, my daughter laughs, because she be running, I be like, you taste blood?

• 56:24Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 56:24Channing Crowder?

  If you wanna taste blood, you ain't tired. She like, daddy, that sounds crazy. Having kids now, but you done put them ahead already, bro. How do you get that mentality into the babies?

• 56:33Speaker 04

  It's tough, man, if my life ain't an episode of Black Issues, I, I can't fucking make this shit up, man. I can remember the most disappointing I ever been in my son. We were walking down the street, and another black kid was walking, and they didn't acknowledge each other. I say, man, this motherfucker don't even know. Like, when, if I see you walking, and I'm walking, we ain't got, it's either heading out or so, or it's a that. It's just either up or motherfucking down. How the fuck did I fail as a father that I didn't teach my damn son that he's supposed to either nod, and then what it is, is, is supposed to acknowledge that, I feel you, brother, whatever struggle you got going on, I acknowledge you and I feel you. But the problem is, this little motherfucker ain't never went through shit, you know what I'm saying? This motherfucker floating in pools and like, hey daddy?

• 57:18Speaker 04

  This motherfucker, he think the world is all sunshine and roses. All they know is Barack Obama was the president, what racism is all this one? I don't even know. Like, I'm failing as a father, man, so I'm raising suburban kids with a hood mentality, and I don't even know. I went to my daughter's game, and I stood up, and I think I booed, I didn't know you weren't supposed to boo. Have you experienced this?

• 57:40Fred Taylor?

  Yeah.

• 57:40Speaker 04

  I didn't know you weren't supposed to boo. Do you know, see, you in a solid, y'all motherfuckers get it late, you know what I'm saying? Like, I'm at the game, and a kid at the free throw line, and I waited, I held my breath. And he came down, bent his knees, went up, I said, oh shit. You know what I'm saying? Kid, what the fuck you supposed to do? Like, we trying to win, we trying to win, and we trying to participate. So like, the, uh, the, our parents stood up, like, hey! And I said, motherfucker, hey! You know what I'm saying? I'm saying, fuck you mean, hey? Fuck, I can boo, that's why these kids are soft as shit, man? Because they ain't got no fucking criticism.

• 58:21Speaker 04

  They supposed to get booed, that's fucking, that builds your goddamn character, you know what I'm saying? Like, how the fuck the first time you get booed is when you a grown ass person? You can't handle that shit, you lying motherfucker, I about to end this shit, you know what I'm saying? That's what life is about, my motherfucker like, I'm used to being at the game, motherfucker like, hey, man, I got, I got a thousand on you, motherfucker, you motherfucker better get your gun, you don't fuck that shit up. I'm a motherfucker like, motherfucker, hey, you win, I'm kill you, motherfucker, like, I'm like, I'm at games like that. That, that's why I'm here.

• 58:51Ryan Clark?

  Thank God, your kids ain't at games like that though, boy.

• 58:55Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, I mean, but, yeah.

• 58:56Ryan Clark?

  That's like damn above the roof.

• 58:58Speaker 04

  Goddamn right, you know what I'm saying? We playing for straight bunks, B.

• 59:01Ryan Clark?

  Straight bunks, man.

• 59:02Speaker 04

  Straight fucking bunks.

• 59:04Fred Taylor?

  We, we always ask our guests, man, what's their biggest pivot in life? That's a moment you can look back on, or moments you can look back on and say, because this happened to me or for me, I am who I am today.

• 59:13Speaker 04

  Yeah, I mean, it's right back to that punk motherfucking Mike Vite, you know what I'm saying?

• 59:18Channing Crowder?

  I figured that, I didn't wanna assume.

• 59:20Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, you could assume, you could assume this. Fucking Mike Vite, I promise you, Mike, we can be 80, I'm gonna whoop yo ass. Because you wanna know why? You wanna know why I'm gonna fuck him up? Because back in the day, coaches had your future in their hands. You couldn't leave, and he took an opportunity not to give a young man grace.

• 59:47Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 59:48Speaker 04

  And he trying to take my fuck, like, it's one thing for me to get suspended, it's another thing for you to go to the new head coach and try and sabotage my fucking life, right? And he didn't only do it to me, he did it to another teammate of mine, and he did it to somebody at another school. He's a bad person, and I'm telling you, one, two, three, four, five. What did the five hands say to the face? I'mma smack the dog shit out of you if I miss you, motherfucker, I swear to God.

• 1:00:16Ryan Clark?

  That, that is the biggest pivot. Bart, bro, this is, this might've been the best show we've ever done, and it's nothing to do with us.

• 1:00:24Speaker 04

  You my dog, all you had to do was invite me, motherfucker, you know me?

• 1:00:26Ryan Clark?

  Bro, we appreciate you, dawg. Bro, something really wrong with you, fam.

• 1:00:32Fred Taylor?

  You ever show Rex them toes?

• 1:00:34Speaker 04

  Oh, man. Rex getting freaky, man.