Pod Insights The Oprah Podcast Why Young Men Are Struggling Right Now with Oprah & Scott Galloway About this episode Oprah and a live audience of mostly men are in a lively conversation with author, entrepreneur, NYU professor and podcaster Scott Galloway about his new book, Notes on Being a Man. Galloway’s #1 New York Times bestseller has ignited a nationwide discussion around what many see as a crisis facing young men today. In this candid discussion, men open up about manhood, vulnerability, and the unique challenges facing young men in modern America. Scott answers questions from the audience and opens up about his own personal journey of being a man and a father to two sons. BUY THE BOOK! 'Notes on Being a Man' by Scott Galloway:
https://amzn.to/4wrHB1h
Chapters: 00:00:00 — Intro: Scott Galloway, Notes on Being a Man 00:01:20 — Why anger is the only “allowed” male emotion 00:02:40 — Men want role models 00:05:10 — Male friendships in decline 00:07:25 — Screen time and declining well-being in young men 00:09:40 — Why many young men don’t ask women out 00:11:38 — Relationships are life’s greatest reward 00:12:36 — Scott’s upbringing 00:13:50 — Rule #1 of being a good man 00:17:45 — Building a personal code of conduct 00:20:50 — Moms are sounding the alarm too 00:22:38 — Learning to be vulnerable 00:26:27 — Balancing self-love with finding love 00:27:52 — The 3 things women want in men 00:30:48 — Why taking risks is difficult 00:32:42 — Staying on the right path 00:36:30 — Scott on toxic masculinity 00:39:26 — How men can show up for each other 00:43:10 — What Scott would tell his younger self 00:46:42 — Is dating getting harder? 00:50:38 — How parents can support young men Follow Oprah Winfrey on Social: https://www.instagram.com/oprahpodcast/ https://www.facebook.com/oprahwinfrey/ Listen to the full podcast: https://open.spotify.com/show/0tEVrfNp92a7lbjDe6GMLI https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-oprah-podcast/id1782960381
Transcript 11,078 words · 21 speakers
Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:01 Speaker 00 This episode is brought to you by HBO Max. For your awards consideration, HBO Max presents Rooster. Starring Steve Carell, this new comedy series focuses on the complicated relationship between a successful author and his daughter. Don't miss the series IGN called hilarious and brilliant. Rooster is streaming on HBO Max. Watch now.
0:21 Speaker 01 Just to be raw about this, would you have sex with you? Can't believe I just said that on Oprah.
0:26 Oprah Winfrey? Yeah.
0:37 Oprah Winfrey? Hi, everybody. Thanks for joining me here on the Oprah Podcast. I am just delighted to be on the road in New York City with this fantastic audience. Thank you so much. If you're watching us on YouTube, you'll notice that we have more men than usual in our audience. That's because we invited them here, because we're talking about the alarming statistics that show that many men, especially young men, are not okay. And actually, in what some people believe is a dire crisis. Before I introduce my guest today, I want to just hear from some of you here. So what's on your mind? What's your reaction to all of the headlines? You all have been seeing the headlines yourselves.
1:22 Oprah Winfrey? And how is that impacting or reflecting on your life? So Max, what do you want to say?
1:27 Speaker 03 First off, thank you both so much. You know, I think this is such an important conversation. I'm 23, I'm a senior at NYU, and I think I'm speaking for all of my friends when I say that we feel lonely. You know, young men, anger is really the only societally acceptable emotion that we can express or confuse. And we kind of need a voice in this wilderness. And you are that, and that's why this conversation is so important.
1:56 Oprah Winfrey? Wow. Do you, can I just ask you this, Max? Do your friends say that to each other? Or how is that expressed?
2:04 Speaker 03 This is something that we text each other late at night. You know, this is not something we talk about out in the open. These are conversations that we have, you know, over the safety of a digital wall. And this is something that is really hard for us to talk to each other about face to face out in the open.
2:20 Oprah Winfrey? And what are you all actually saying? Because the use of the word lonely, I mean, I've never heard, you know, young men say, "I am lonely." So are people texting each other saying, "I'm lonely," or are they saying what?
2:32 Speaker 03 I mean, you've mentioned that it took you forever to cry. You know, I remember the last time one of my male friends texted me, "I just cried for the first time in years." And it's out of desperation, yes. It's, "I'm lonely." It's, "I don't know what I'm doing with my life." It's desperation.
2:50 Oprah Winfrey? Okay. Thank you so much. Alfred.
2:55 Speaker 04 Hello.
2:55 Oprah Winfrey? Hi.
2:56 Speaker 04 I think something that really is something that I would focus on pertaining to this issue is a need for role models within our community. I grew up in Bedford-Stuyvesant, Brooklyn, and there was an absence at the time of role models within my neighborhood. Of course, I grew up in a single-parent household, but I did have a relationship with my father. But extended role models to look to and to glean from, it was a dig. It was a dig. And you speak a lot about it, you know, because sometimes it's really, really hard to see where you can't go a certain place if you don't see it. And you want to see, you want to be able to see where you can go.
3:40 Speaker 04 So I think role models is a really important part of growing up and doing well and finding your place in a community.
3:47 Oprah Winfrey? Thanks, Alfred. Well, my guest that you're referring to has been sounding the alarm about young men in America. As a father of two sons, he speaks, and he says he grapples with this thought, "How do I figure out a way to raise confident, decent, young men?" And I'm sure a lot of you've had that thought for yourselves. That question became the guiding force for his newest book. And let me tell you, it's An amazingly, really profound, thoughtful book. And if you are a man, you're gonna want to read it. And if you're a woman, you want to send it to every man you know. It's called Notes on Being a Man. Fantastic title, by the way.
4:28 Speaker 01 Thank you.
4:29 Oprah Winfrey? Welcome entrepreneur, bestselling author, NYU professor, and podcaster extraordinaire Scott Galloway. Scott.
4:37 Speaker 01 Thank you, thank you.
4:42 Oprah Winfrey? You say that what's happening to men is a five alarm. Fire for men in the United States. Tell us what's going on, as you see it.
4:51 Speaker 01 Well, the statistics are pretty stark. If you walk into a morgue and there's five people who've died by suicide, four men. Three times as likely, we don't, I mean, we have a homeless problem and an opiate problem. But what we really have is a male homeless and a male opiate problem. Three times as likely to be addicted, three times as likely to be homeless, 12 times as likely to be incarcerated. More single women own homes than single men. The women in urban areas are making more money. And let me be clear, we should do nothing to get in the way of that. But if we don't have, if our young men continue to flail, our country and women aren't going to continue to flourish. And just a couple of things you brought up, loneliness and then role models. One out of four men can't name a best friend.
5:34 Speaker 01 One out of seven men don't have a single friend. And what I would say is there's a lot of factors around this. But something to be cognizant of is that-
5:44 Oprah Winfrey? Can I just stop you for a second? Is that unusual? Is that new?
5:47 Speaker 01 It's getting worse. And typically, when a man isn't in- Women are relationally more invested or more talented establishing relationships. And typically, they use their friends as a means of gaining confidence to enter into a romantic relationship. Whereas a man, if he doesn't have a relationship by the time he's 30, there's a 1 in 3 chance he'll be a substance abuser. And also, there's a cartoon Oprah of the poor woman in her 30s that didn't find romantic love. And she's in a big sweater, looking out on a rainy day, listening to sad music. What a tragedy. That's a cartoon. The reality is, men need relationships much more than women.
6:28 Speaker 01 Widows are happier after their husband dies. Widowers, it's true, widowers are less happy. Women live longer in relationships. They live two to four years longer. Men live four to seven years longer. So, men actually need relationships more. What I would argue, or what I would be cognizant of the fact, when you're talking about loneliness, is you're up against the deepest-pocketed, most talented companies in the world with godlike technology, who are trying to do one thing, and that is sequester you from your other relationships. They're either trying to get you to glue to the phone, and one of the ways they glue you to the phone is by enraging you. Elevating content that makes you angry at your neighbor. Elevate content that makes you start blaming the other gender, or blaming immigrants for your problems.
7:13 Oprah Winfrey? And this is being done on purpose?
7:15 Speaker 01 Well, they didn't start out as malicious, but I'm in marketing. We used to think that it was sex that sells. Then the algorithms found something that sells even more in terms of gluing you to a screen, and that is rage. So I'm not suggesting we censor these folks, but they will elevate content. They will figure out your political leanings, your fears, and then start elevating content that enrages you, because enrage means equals engagement, equals shareholder value. So keep in mind, the amount of time you spend on a screen as a young man, and biologically your prefrontal cortex isn't as developed as a woman. It doesn't catch up until you're 25. The executive function, the need for DOPA, is much more dangerous than a young man. Keep in mind that you will find they are trying to essentially convince you you can
7:59 Speaker 01 have a reasonable facsimile of life on a screen. So keep in mind, you are up against a foe that is trying to separate you from the outside world. And very simply mathematically, the more time you spend on a screen, the less likely you are to have loving relationships, the less money you're gonna make, the more likely you are gonna be to engage in self-harm, the more likely you are going to blame other people. In some, the worse your life gets, based on how much time you spend on a screen. We are mammals. We are meant to be outside and in the company of others, and we have for-profit companies trying to convince you to go the other way. So you're up against some very significant foes. On the idea of role models, the single point of failure, if you reversed engineered a
8:43 Speaker 01 boy coming off the tracks, is when he loses a male role model through either death, divorce, or abandonment. We have more single parent homes than any nation in the world, other than Sweden. And what's interesting is that girls in single parent homes have the same outcome, same rates of college attendance, same income as dual parent homes. A boy, when he loses a male role model, at that moment is more likely to be incarcerated than graduate from college. What it ends up is that while boys are physically stronger, they're emotionally and mentally much weaker. And what we need, quite frankly, is we need more men to step up and fill the void. There are three times as many women applying to be big sisters in New York as there are
9:27 Speaker 01 men applying to be big brothers. So we have an obligation to get involved in a young man's life, right? And it's just to summarize here, if we want better men, we have to be better men.
9:40 Oprah Winfrey? Well, I have to say, I think of this, this book, Notes on Being a Man, as a, as a guidebook. And from your personal perspective, for how men can begin to show up in the world, you talk about that, everything from fitness to nutrition to money, to work, and how to meet women. The thing that struck me was that eight, men 18 to 25, 45% of men 18 to 25 have not engaged personally on asking a woman out for a date, or I, I find that to be shocking.
10:15 Speaker 01 Almost half of young men have never asked a woman out in person. And there's a bunch of factors around that. One, it's difficult. I mean, it's just not easy. One of the key skills I think a man has to treat, or try and give his son, is to how to express romantic interest while making that person feel safe. And I, this is only anecdotal evidence, when I go out and I'm in social situations, I'll have women approach me and say, I'm here, I'm single and I'm ready to mingle, I look amazing, and a man hasn't approached me in three months, right? And 80% of women still expect the man to make that initial approach.
10:55 Speaker 01 And also, to a certain extent, men's interest in romantic and sexual relationships has been pathologized. Like, there's something wrong if you want to meet women and ultimately have sex. And I think we need to start celebrating it. Because a man's desire to be in a relationship, and quite frankly, to have physical encounters, is fire. And that is, it can be destructive. You spend too much time with porn, you start objectifying women, it can lead to misogynist or dangerous places. But that fire can also be captured in an engine and create tremendous progress. Wanting to have sex, if channeled correctly, which it is for most men, makes you want to dress better, smell better, have a kindness practice, have your act together, develop
11:37 Speaker 01 the resilience and the confidence to approach someone, and maybe they're not interested, and guess what? You're both gonna be fine. These are key attributes. We need to celebrate men wanting to have relationships and making an approach. And if you don't develop those skills and that resilience and those calluses from rejection, you're gonna struggle in other parts of your life. So the most rewarding thing in life is relationships, full stop. And I think the most rewarding relationship is building a life with someone and having kids. I'm not saying you have to have that to be happy. And quite frankly, just to be raw about this, when I saw my partner who I've had kids with, I wasn't thinking I'd really like lower rates on auto insurance.
12:20 Speaker 01 I was thinking, just to be blunt, I would really like to have sex with her. And that forced me to be a better person, to try to have a kindness practice, to demonstrate excellence, and 18 months later, we had our first son. So let's stop demonizing men for wanting to procreate. It's a wonderful thing, as long as you channel it into wanting to be a better man. The only thing I can guarantee you, is that anything wonderful in your life is gonna have a lot of no's. Full stop. And unfortunately, men aren't getting to no because they're afraid to, or they have what they think is a cheap substitute for these relationships online.
12:56 Oprah Winfrey? So let's talk for a moment about your younger years, your parents, and what happened between them and your life after their divorce. That was all a huge, huge influence on you. How, how did your mother and father shape who you are as a man?
13:14 Speaker 01 I was raised by a single immigrant mother, lived and died a secretary, lied in my life, right? And my father, like a lot of us, was a very handsome Scotsman, not very sophisticated, left at the age of 13. And just to be crude, he was a handsome man with a Scottish accent in 70s California, which meant he could not only think with his dick, he could listen to it. He was married and divorced. I can't believe I just said that on Oprah.
13:36 Oprah Winfrey? Yeah.
13:38 Speaker 01 He was, he was married and divorced.
13:41 Oprah Winfrey? I can see how you could think with it, I'm just trying to understand how he listens to it, but anyway, okay.
13:46 Speaker 01 Married and divorced four times. Started his third marriage while he was still married to my mom. My father was not an especially high-character person in terms of how he treated women and how he treated my mom. And so, not having a male role model around, he moved away. I think took, quite frankly, a toll on me, but what the worst part about it was he wasn't very good to my mom. He wasn't nice. And the lesson I carry forward as a father, I do think the best thing you can do to raise good men, quite frankly, is just to be a very loving, supportive partner. You want good men who are more secure and better in relationships? They will model you. You can tell them whatever you want, they're just gonna watch what you're doing. The first rule as a man is you need to be very good to their mother.
14:31 Speaker 01 Even if you end up going through divorce, the more generous you are, the kinder you are, I think your sons are gonna notice that and gonna model it. My mom was, you know, every day, when you get older, you get more thoughtful, that's the good news. The bad news is you get more thoughtful and you start thinking about, how did I get on Oprah, right? And the way I got on Oprah was, one, I'm a product of big government. The generosity and vision of California taxpayers and the regions of UC. I got to go to UCLA and Berkeley for almost no money. Had a 74% admissions rate when I applied, this year it was 9%. But also, just the irrational passion for my well-being and my mother. Every day, I remember going to lunch with my mom, I was a teenager, I was 5'10" with terrible acne, 110 pounds,
15:16 Speaker 01 and she would literally stop and go, "You are so handsome, I can't get over it." And she would sit there and stare at me. Anyway, if you believe, if, if, if you say to a kid every day, in, you know, explicit and implicit ways, "You're wonderful," I just don't, I, I think at some point they start to believe that.
15:35 Oprah Winfrey? Yeah.
15:35 Speaker 01 So that confidence is still with me.
15:37 Oprah Winfrey? That's really one of the first things I underlined on page 28, when you said... This is something for us all to remember. Having a good person express how wonderful you are hundreds of times changes everything. I was tethered. I thought, I'd never thought of it that way before. Having a person express how wonderful you are hundreds of times actually tethers you in a way that, that nothing else can. Yeah.
16:01 Speaker 01 Yeah, I was, I was grounded and, and the thing is, and it goes back to mentorship, and there's a lot of men in this audience, and by virtue of the fact you're here, you probably have your act together more than you realize.
16:12 Oprah Winfrey? Yeah.
16:13 Speaker 01 And there's a fear that you need to be a CEO, or a baller, or an adolescent psychiatrist to get involved in a young man's life. It is so easy to add value. What I would suggest is masculinity is taking care of yourself, taking care of your community, taking care of your country, but I think the ultimate expression of masculinity is to get involved in a young man's life. And the place to start is with single mothers in your workplace. You just want to come over and watch a ballgame. Would you like to hang out? I'm watching my car this weekend. Would you like to come over? But that really is the single point, and even just saying that boys needed men a few years ago was seen as triggering. What, women can't raise men? Of course they can. But the research is clear, boys need men, and there's an absence of them in our society right now.
16:57 Oprah Winfrey? Yeah, I remember years ago doing a show and a lot of women, single mothers, getting offended when the experts said at that time that you can be a great mother, but you can't be a father, because a lot of mothers think that they are also the fathers, but men need male role models, period, is what you're saying.
17:15 Speaker 01 Hundred percent. And also, to be clear, I think that masculine, we talk in the book about masculine and feminine energy, that masculine energy can be brought in a household headed by two women. That feminine energy can be brought, that mix, I think the mix of masculine and feminine energy is the greatest alliance in history. The genders have done a great job of convincing themselves that it's the other gender's fault. And I hold on to that the greatest alliance in history is a mix of the wonderful kind of healing, nurturing, gracefulness of femininity and the more risk aggressive, more what I'll call protective instincts of masculine energy. But I want to be clear, neither of those attributes are sequestered to people born as men or women. My closest male friends tend to be more feminine in nature.
17:59 Speaker 01 I'm drawn to men who are more caring. But I do think masculinity comes easier to people born as males. And that if they need a code, they can lean into an aspirational form of masculinity. I think that we all need a code, and I think young men are desperate for some sort of guardrails.
18:17 Oprah Winfrey? Okay, on page 137, you say every man needs to develop a code, a series of adjectives or behaviors that guide and define his everyday behavior. So how do young men develop a code amidst so much divisiveness and distractions? How do you get a code?
18:37 Speaker 01 Well, people get it from different places. They can get it from their religion. They can get it from the military. They can get it from their family. I got my first code, I would argue, from my workplace. It was just the way you approached work and other people, and I started to... That was very helpful to me. But what I put forward in the book is I think masculinity can serve as a code, but an aspirational vision of it, specifically be a provider. I think every man at the outset of his career should assume at some point he might have to take economic responsibility for his household.
19:08 Oprah Winfrey? Because you believe that's one of the tenets of being a man?
19:11 Speaker 01 Well, I think in a capitalist society, men are disproportionately evaluated on their economic viability, and also the way men evaluate themselves. And if you're not economically viable, I think you're going to have a tough time having the self-esteem, having society respect you, and quite frankly, attracting mates. And we don't like to say this out loud, but 75% of women say economic viability is key to a mate. Only 25% of men say this about women. So the reality is, as much as we'd like to think it doesn't matter, when the woman starts making more money than the man in a household, the likelihood of divorce doubles, the use of erectile dysfunction drugs triples because the man feels worse about himself. I am not suggesting that we do anything to get in the way of women's assent.
19:55 Speaker 01 Economically, it's wonderful. We need it. Quite frankly, it won World War II because we put women in factories and it has saved our economy that women are killing it. It's an amazing thing, but as a man, you should assume at the beginning, you need to find the certification and demonstrate the discipline and the will to be economically viable. And sometimes that means getting out of the way of your partner and being more supportive of her because she happens to be better at that money thing than you. That is also a form of masculinity, but I hold on to the fact, if you are not economically viable as a man in this economy, in this society, not saying it should be this way, but it is, you are going to struggle. You're going to struggle in terms of what society thinks of you, what you think of
20:37 Speaker 01 yourself, and quite frankly, what a lot of women think of you. Economic, being a provider, two, protector. The whole point of prosperity, the whole shooting match is such that you can move to being a protector. Think about the most masculine jobs, fireman, cop, military, the end of the day, they protect. And then the ultimate expression of masculinity, planting trees, the shade of which you will never sit under. You want to be a provider, you want to be a protector, and you want to be a procreator. And I think that vision of masculinity as a code can serve as really wonderful guardrails for a young man.
21:11 Oprah Winfrey? We need to take a quick break. I'm next, we'll talk to the man behind an emotional viral video. He posted about his own fears and struggles with relationships.
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21:51 Oprah Winfrey? Hi and welcome back to the Oprah Podcast. We're talking to bestselling author and podcaster Scott Galloway. You may know him as Prof. G. We're talking to him about his revelatory new book, Notes on Being a Man. In the introduction, you say you heard from a lot of moms who say something like, "I have a daughter who lives in Chicago, works at PR, and another daughter who's at Penn. My son lives in our basement, vapes and plays video games." You believe that a lot of mothers are also the ones who are sounding the alarms on what's going on with young men.
22:23 Speaker 01 The dialogue Oprah has gotten so much more productive. Five years ago, when I saw this data and I started talking about it, the reaction was pretty much a gag reflex because the reality is, people who look and smell and feel like me have had a 3,000-year head start. From 1945 to 2000, America registered a third of all economic growth, which is 5% of the population. So, we had six times the prosperity in America. And then, all of that prosperity was essentially shoved into a third of the population that was white, male, and heterosexual. So, I have had gale-force hurricane winds in my sails. I have had unfair advantage.
23:02 Speaker 01 The problem is, is that we are holding 19-year-old men accountable for my privilege. They do not benefit from the same unfair advantage that I had. And that's probably a good thing. But, we are holding them accountable. Young men are, on any metric, really struggling. And the alliance between men and women needs to be restored, such that we can be the afterburners for their success and their ascent as women. But, also, I do think women play a role in not falling into this trap of thinking, "Well, you've had a 3,000-year head start. I don't feel sorry for you." You know who wants more economically and emotionally viable young men? Women.
23:44 Oprah Winfrey? So, let's bring in more of the men in our audience. Let's take a look at this video that Brandon posted on Instagram.
23:53 Speaker 06 I don't know if I'll ever be a husband or a father. And that really, really hurts me. Because that's all I've wanted since I was a kid.
24:13 Speaker 07 And it eats at ya. And you wonder if you're ever gonna get what everyone else has. If you're good enough, if you deserve it. If it's something that's meant for you. And I've had to come to terms with maybe it's not. And while that brings tears to my eyes and makes me as sad as someone could be.
24:38 Speaker 07 You've just gotta trust God's plan.
24:43 Speaker 07 But I can still dream.
24:46 Oprah Winfrey? Brandon, why do you think you feel that way? What's behind it?
24:50 Speaker 07 I've struggled with that alone feeling my entire life. I gotta live my dream job as a sports supporter on TV and people would see me on NFL sidelines interviewing the biggest stars. But behind the scenes, I was struggling with that alone feeling. I thought I met my wife, the woman I was gonna have kids with, and unfortunately, it was a really toxic relationship and breakup. And it put me at a spot where I was suicidal and didn't wanna live anymore. And so I had to check into a hospital, get help, and I realized for the first time that I wasn't alone. And I took that moment and I decided to, similar to what you're doing, be hopefully a vulnerable man that can help others. And so I created the Mental Game, where I interview athletes and celebrities like Terry Crews, Nate Burleson, Kevin Gates. These men who you think might not have any problems in the world. And they struggle with the same things as me and other men in this room.
25:35 Speaker 07 And I also go all over the country and try to speak. We've been to 46 states, spoken to over 250,000 kids, adults, men, women, just trying to show that, look, it's okay to be alone and to be vulnerable as men. But you have to show those emotions. You know, I watched my dad my entire life, hoarded all in. And it wasn't until the night that I called him and said, hey, I'm gonna take my own life, that we ever talked about mental health.
25:59 Oprah Winfrey? So is all that talking and speaking about it, has it helped you resolve your own?
26:04 Speaker 07 Yeah, I mean, I was emotional watching that video. We locked eyes as soon as it started playing because I posted that three weeks ago on a Friday night, not thinking it would do anything, and it had 5 million views when I woke up. Because I think a lot of other men felt just like me. So it is like therapy. I go to therapy, I spent two weeks in the hospital. This has become my purpose to help myself and others. But I think what I've learned traveling the country and working with these athletes and celebrities, and just anyone that's struggling with their mental health, specifically men. There's a lot of us feel the same way as I did in that video. And that's why it went viral. But we're scared of what our peers, other men in the room, women, will think of us. I mean, I gave up on dating. I want to get married. I want to have kids one day. But since, you know, I lost who I thought was gonna be my wife and the mother to my children,
26:49 Speaker 07 I kinda put all that energy in me. And so I'm not on dating apps. I don't, the rejection thing, that's the biggest thing I'm scared of. I would never go up to someone at a bar and say, "Hey, you're beautiful. Let me buy you a cup of coffee." I don't drink anymore. I'm sober. I struggle with addiction. In maybe my younger days in college, I'm cool. All right, you get no, great, go to the next one. Now is being someone that's 32.
27:09 Oprah Winfrey? So what Scott said here earlier about rejection, how did that land with you?
27:13 Speaker 07 I mean, it hit hard because like, it's funny. My professional life, I took all of the risk I could possibly do, leaving a job as an NFL reporter and starting my own thing. Personal life, I have no interest in that. Just because of that fear. And so rather than risk that, I'd rather pour that energy into myself. Going to the gym, working on my business, working on my mental health. I think loving yourself, I didn't love myself until like a year and a half ago. And it took me a long time to get to that point.
27:40 Oprah Winfrey? Okay, what's your question for Scott?
27:42 Speaker 07 I think for me, it bounces off that of, how can you balance loving yourself, but also trying to find that person to love? I feel like for the first time, like I said, I do love myself. And I'm ready to date. I wanna get married one day and be a father and have kids. But it's like, how do you balance the two? Can you do both at the same time?
28:01 Speaker 01 So I just feel like I need to disclose, I have no domain expertise or training in psychiatry. And so when you talk about mental health issues, I can talk to you about my own mental health issues, but I don't ever wanna supplant the notion that you should talk to professionals and get real advice. I'm speaking to you as someone who's been through a lot of what you've been through, but my advice is anecdotal. So just that asterisk. I coach a lot of young men. And I have enough respect for you not to PG 13 or whitewash my content. When men usually say, young men, the young men I work with usually wanna move out of their parents' house. They wanna start making some money.
28:43 Speaker 01 And then ultimately what they end up is like, when they start trusting me, "I'd really like a girlfriend." And I go through a series of exercises. And the first thing I ask them is like, "Would you have sex with you?"
28:54 Speaker 01 What do you look like? Do you take your appearance seriously? Do you have a plan? Do you have a kindness practice? How do you demonstrate excellence? Right, the basis of evolution-
29:04 Oprah Winfrey? I love the way you talk about, you emphasize kindness so much in notes on being a man.
29:07 Speaker 01 There are three reasons women are attracted to men sexually. And there's a ton of research here. Number one, and we don't like to talk about this, is the man's ability to signal resources. Alright, we don't like to admit that, it's important. Number two is intellect. Because instinctively, people who make good decisions for the tribe, the tribe lives longer. So women are drawn to intellect. The fastest way to communicate an intellect is humor. And just so I can offend everybody, it's a joke, but we can be funny about this. This is my impersonation of a woman. I'm laughing, I'm laughing, I'm naked. If you can make a woman laugh... The only dates I ever got were people I could make laugh.
29:51 Speaker 01 If you can make a woman laugh, she will likely have a coffee with you. And then the third thing, and this is the most under-leveraged, secret weapon in mating: kindness. Because women instinctively know there might be periods in their life, through gestation, or because they are smaller physically, that they need someone who baseline is kind, right? So a kindness practice. I don't, I'm not proud of this-
30:16 Oprah Winfrey? You say you were not always kind, Scott.
30:18 Speaker 01 I'm not proud of this, I was not born with the kindness gene. And when I had kids, I realized that they were gonna model me. So I believe, like anything, you can develop a practice. And every day, I tried to do something that demonstrated some sort of generosity towards someone with no reciprocal expectation.
30:37 Oprah Winfrey? When did you realize you were not a kind person?
30:40 Speaker 01 Professionally, when I realized that I could have been so much nicer. I could have-
30:45 Oprah Winfrey? Were you unkind? Were you an asshole?
30:47 Speaker 01 Never mean, never unkind, but what you realize is that you have... Everyone has capital. When you're young, you have more time than money. When you're older, you have some money. I got some early success. It would have been so easy for me to lift young people up.
31:01 Oprah Winfrey? Yeah.
31:01 Speaker 01 I was never mean, but it would have been so easy for me to say, "You were just outstanding in that meeting." Or, "I've been watching you. I think you're gonna do great. This is where I think you could improve." I just, it's so easy, and you don't have to be a baller. I now stopped, I saw an old couple, I'm virtue signaling right now, but it's true. I saw an old couple on the street. They looked amazing. It was one of those New York couples. And I stopped them and I said, "You guys just look amazing." And I could tell it made them feel good, and it made me feel better about myself. And now, after doing this for 20 years, it's common practice. But these are basic reasons why women are drawn to men. What I would say to you is, "It sounds like you've worked a lot on yourself and you're ready." Boss, there's no free lunch.
31:46 Speaker 01 If you wanna make real money, if you wanna hang out with someone higher character than you and better looking than you, quite frankly, get ready to eat shit, because it involves rejection over and over and over. Nothing wonderful will happen to you without taking an uncomfortable risk. And a lot of it is just practice. Get used to no. And when I tell these men I mentor, church group, sports league, whatever it might be, and then you gotta express friendship or romantic interest, and this is what's gonna happen. You're probably gonna get to no, and then you're gonna call me the next day. I'm gonna say, "Are you all right?" And that person's gonna say, "Yes." And I'm gonna say, "Okay, now the next time it's two approaches." You just gotta build some calluses. There's no easy way around it.
32:26 Oprah Winfrey? Yeah.
32:26 Speaker 01 No is the path to wonderful yeses.
32:30 Oprah Winfrey? Got that, Brandon?
32:32 Speaker 01 I got it. I'm gonna try my best.
32:33 Oprah Winfrey? Thank you, Brandon.
32:34 Speaker 01 The humor part helps.
32:36 Speaker 07 Thank you.
32:37 Oprah Winfrey? I applaud you, Brandon, too, for being so, allowing yourself to be so vulnerable on that tape. That's why you got 5 billion responses. Because people respond to your heart. Jermaine is 25, and first, here's a quick look at one of his dick talks.
32:52 Speaker 08 America, I'm not gonna lie, I really think that the, like, us as men, the male power, we are literally having a crisis that nobody is talking about. There are so many men that I know that are struggling with, like, mental health and depression, especially in these times where the economy and, like, money and jobs. More men don't have jobs right now. More men are going through financial struggles. More men my age who got degrees, who went to college, who did all the right things, cannot find jobs, and nobody's really talking about it. And yet, we're seeing these stats that say, like, oh, less men are having kids, less men are getting married. Do y'all think that's by choice? That is not by choice. This is not our fathers' and our grandfathers' economy.
33:35 Speaker 08 Why would I sit here and put myself in a bigger bind of trying to get married, have a kid, and buy a house if I can't even survive on my own? And I feel like nobody is talking about this, and eventually, this has to become a part of the public conversation as society is moving forward.
33:51 Oprah Winfrey? Okay, we are having that conversation right now.
33:53 Speaker 08 We are.
33:54 Oprah Winfrey? We are. So, asking its given. So what's your question?
33:58 Speaker 09 Yeah, I think my question, and really back to the video, is that I think we're having a conversation about men who are just, you know, in the basement and just unsure where life is taking them. What we're not having the conversation about is men like me, who did do the right things. You know, you go to college, you have the right job, you don't really struggle necessarily with relationships or women or whatever, but you do have this kind of fear of, I'm doing all the right things right now at 25. How do I stay on track with the way the political climate is going, the way the economy is going? This is a whole new era that we're in, and so my question is just, what do you say to men who are 25, who are on the right path, doing the right things to stay focused and stay ahead of the curve for the future, when it looks very unpredictable here in the United States?
34:40 Speaker 01 You just wish, as you got older, you could, you could wrap your arms around people and give them the confidence they deserve. You know, if I had your looks, I'd be the leading candidate for the Democratic presidential nomination right now. Look, this pivots to solutions, but the reality is, my generation and old people have figured out a way to continue to vote themselves more money. People over the age of 60 or 72% wealthier than 60-year-olds 40 years ago. People under the age of 40 are 24% less wealthy. Marriage is the new luxury item. If you're in the top quintile of income-earning homes, there's a 4 in 5 chance you'll get married. If you're a man in the bottom quintile, there's a 1 in 5 chance you'll get married.
35:21 Speaker 01 Unfortunately, income as it relates to college, certification, confidence, the ability to put yourself in environments for mating, it's really unfortunate. It's now related to the income of your parents. So what I would suggest is the following. Realize that a lot of this is not your fault and forgive yourself. And two, as citizens, there are common sense solutions, but they're not that romantic or don't make for good TikToks. We need $25 an hour minimum wage. We need, you know what would be the best thing for young men right now? Universal childcare. Where a man is at the greatest risk of self-harm is in the year after he gets divorced.
36:05 Speaker 01 He loses his primary relationship. One out of three men no longer have contact with their children 6 years after divorce. That is the zone of suicide. And why do young people get divorced? Is it a lack of shared values? No. Is it infidelity? No. It's financial strain. So if we want healthier, loving households, it's pretty damn easy. My generation needs to stop hoarding so much wealth with economic policies that benefit us. For the first time in our nation's history, in 275 years, a 30-year-old isn't doing as well as his or her parents were at the age of 30. National service, tax credits for third places,
36:47 Speaker 01 $25 an hour minimum wage, more vocational training, universal childcare, Pell Grants. When I got, went to UCLA, the admissions rate was 74%. This year it'll be 9%. I went for $7,000 total tuition. My first house in San Francisco cost $280,000, which I bought when I was 28. But now my generation has weaponized college and housing. Once I get a degree and a house, I want the admissions rates to go down. And all of a sudden, I become concerned with traffic and I don't like any more housing permits. This is pretty damn simple. We gotta put more money in everyone's pocket here. I gotta stop buttressing my own wealth with your credit card,
37:30 Speaker 01 deficit spending that elevates my wealth and robs economic opportunity from you. The greatest thing we could do about the loneliness crisis and the mating crisis, pretty damn simple, put more money in your pockets, full stop.
37:44 Oprah Winfrey? Makes sense. Makes sense. Makes sense. Thank you. Thank you, Jermaine. Let's talk about the term toxic masculinity.
37:52 Speaker 01 Yeah.
37:52 Oprah Winfrey? Now, you say that this elicits all sorts of reactions and you call that phrase, "the emperor of all oxymorons." What's your take?
38:02 Speaker 01 Well, I don't think there's any such thing as toxic masculinity. I think there's cruelty, there's abuse of power, there's violence. But masculinity is supposed to get in the way of those things. Women need to cross the street when they see men because they feel safer, right? It breaks my heart that you hear in New York, women are afraid to get on subways and they'll say because there's too many men?
38:24 Oprah Winfrey? Yep.
38:25 Speaker 01 So, from a very young age, we have to teach our boys, "You're a protector. That's how you demonstrate masculinity." And it's not just physical. Real men break up fights at bars. They don't start them. Your default operating system as a man should be to weigh in and protect. That's why we're here. We have denser bone structure, better double-twitch muscle, and this amazing thing called testosterone. And the whole reason we're given that is such that we can protect people. Move to that.
38:57 Oprah Winfrey? Time for a break. If you're finding this to be an eye-opening conversation, I invite you to share it with a friend or the young men in your life. More when we come back.
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39:36 Oprah Winfrey? Hey there. Welcome back to the Oprah Podcast. If you have a young man in your life who's struggling, I'm hoping you'll share this podcast and start a conversation together. Okay, so some women heard we were talking to men today and wanted to be here. Maria Claire, what do you want to say?
39:53 Speaker 11 I just want to say your household name in my apartment of three 25-year-old women. So I'm very, very grateful for the work that you're doing. And really, anytime I hear this conversation being advanced, it brings me a lot of joy and hope to see thought leaders just stepping in, wanting to protect and honestly redeem and restore my generation. Because, I mean, I'm heartbroken by what's going on. And I'm heartbroken for everyone in this room. I'm heartbroken for myself.
40:23 Oprah Winfrey? What breaks your heart the most?
40:26 Speaker 11 The desperation, it breaks my heart for me and like my girlfriends that I talk to. That any hope and desire that we'll be married with kids is like faith-driven. Because if you look at the facts, there's no reason to it. You know, like, why would I hope that someone would like, want to say I do to me a bunch of times throughout my life? If like they can't even use the word "date." And it's heartbreak and it's not anger because I know that it's a systematic problem, but...
40:58 Oprah Winfrey? I think that's a very, very profound distinction, that it's heartbreak and not anger.
41:03 Speaker 11 It's not anger, it's heartbreak. And, I mean, I could talk all day about how I think big tech is the enemy of community and fruitful relationships and social media almost ruined my life. And I'm, and I can only speak for myself when I say that, but it really almost did. And I, and I think it is ruining some lives. And I think it will continue to do so if we don't do something about it. But I guess my question for you is something a little bit more abstract and loftier. In the midst of this crisis, how can we love each other well in this generation? How can we show up for each other? And what type of encouragement do many need to hear from their peers?
41:51 Speaker 01 I just don't think there's any getting around it. I think we have robbed prosperity and opportunity from your generation to transfer it to mine. The D in democracy is working too well. Old people have figured out a way to vote themselves more money. I would suggest is in terms of how we show up for each other. I think big tech is part of the problem. I think synthetic relationships for people under the age of 18 should be outlawed. I think social media, there should be no social media under the age of 16. No phones in schools. My colleague at NYU Jonathan Haidt's done a lot of great work around this. But what I would suggest is that getting out, saying yes a lot, yes to invitations.
42:33 Speaker 01 I think young people do have more agency than they recognize. And that the key to happiness, I think, is almost entirely correlated with how much time you spend out of the house. And so what I would say to any young person is try to say yes to as much, many things as are out of the house. And also, I feel like young people through Instagram and online dating had developed a series of red flags where they immediately say, "Oh, he's not over six feet." Or "She doesn't have a certain color hair." And they, they write off each other. So this is the reality of human sexuality. Men feel, men are much less choosy.
43:16 Speaker 01 We're much more promiscuous. The reality is men need venues to demonstrate excellence. And if you talk to people who've been married longer than 30 years, almost always, one was more interested in the other and it was usually the man that was more interested in the woman. But what happened is, at church, I liked the way he treated his parents. I found out he was really talented. He made me laugh. Where does a man demonstrate excellence right now? They're not going to church. Remote work, I think, is the worst thing to happen to young people. A third of relationships begin at work. And 99% of them are consensual. It's not like it's all predatory. I've had 11 marriages at the companies I've started and I'm like, I had no idea they were sleeping together. Did anyone know?
43:59 Speaker 01 And they get married and that's, that's a wonderful thing. Anyways, what I would say is that vote for people who are going to recognize the young people need to share in this prosperity, but also to realize you do have agency, right? And getting out, being friendly, being open. You know, that's the only advice I can provide and try and put away the phone because 210, 200 times a day, you're going to get a reminder that you're not living up to this fake life that someone else is pretending to have. This is, these are lies.
44:33 Oprah Winfrey? I see you guys nodding. Everybody's nodding because you, it feels like you've gotten this, right? You already, you know this is happening. So Jack is in our audience and I hear Jack, you read Scott's book and you have a question about dating.
44:43 Speaker 12 I do.
44:44 Oprah Winfrey? Yeah.
44:45 Speaker 12 A lot of excerpts from your book stuck with me.
44:48 Speaker 01 Yep.
44:48 Speaker 12 But one in particular is a callback to the point you were making on how one of the most important strengths a young man can develop is a willingness to endure rejection.
44:58 Speaker 01 Yeah.
45:00 Speaker 12 I love to go to run clubs and try to be intentional about going to third spaces with my friends.
45:05 Speaker 01 Yep.
45:06 Speaker 12 And we often talk about like, how many strangers are we going to say hi to? How many people are we going to ask to coffee? And we say five, 10. And then we check in at the end and it's usually zero. It might be one.
45:20 Speaker 12 What would you tell your 25-year-old self who may have felt that way? Or maybe you never felt that way, but for all the men that you mentor, what do you tell them?
45:29 Speaker 01 So, look.
45:36 Speaker 01 I, I live a life that is just my parents wouldn't believe, right? I'm here with Oprah, right? And when I reverse engineered those things, they come back to the rational passion for my well-being and my mother. I'm a product of big government. I got assisted lunch, Pell Grants, public school. My mom access family planning. If we hadn't had access to that, I, I, we would have been in poverty. So it really upsets me that immigrants built my companies. I ran tech companies. It really upsets me that America today seems to be attacking everything that got me. Kind of where I am. If I could go back in time, I would say forgive yourself.
46:17 Speaker 01 Because, you know, I remember thinking like, oh gosh, I had companies go bankrupt. That I'd started. I endured a lot of rejection from women. I wish I could go back and say, all right. You can add value to a company. You will make someone happy. If you keep trying and you're a good person, you will make money. But my superpower, quite frankly, and this is the superpower I'd want everyone to inherit by doing what you're doing, approaching strangers. My superpower is rejection. Specifically, I'm willing to endure it. I applied to nine graduate schools. I got into zero and then one let me off the waiting list. I can't tell you the amount of rejection I've endured from women.
47:00 Speaker 01 And my, the ability to mourn and move on. I mean, I get a lot of power from my atheism. And I believe at some point I'm going to look into my boy's eyes and know our relationship is coming to an end. And embracing my insignificance and your insignificance. Makes me feel so much better because when I say something stupid or I endure some form of rejection. It gives me comfort to know they're going to be dead soon and so am I. And it doesn't matter. So why on earth would I not squeeze as much juice out of this lime called life? And establish the ability to mourn and move on. So what you're doing is a key practice because. The ability to endure rejection, again, it's kind of everything.
47:44 Speaker 01 Everybody sees the guy or the gal who has it all. I can't imagine everything was a yes for you. I can't imagine the amount of no's you got to get to this point. But the ability to look in the mirror and go, that's okay. We're both going to be fine. It's everything. The fact that you're out, you're at run clubs, you're even having these conversations with other men. I'm not worried about you. You should be mentoring me. You're gonna be just fine.
48:09 Oprah Winfrey? Okay, Jack. So Anne-Marie, what did you want to say?
48:12 Speaker 13 So, this has been such a great and enlightening conversation. I have so many thoughts that I want to add. I have to say, for a lot of my friends, we've just completely given up on dating. We're more focused on our family, and our friends, and our careers. And, for me personally, I feel like I've gotten to a point where I really love the version of myself that I've become. I've put a lot of work into her. I'm really focused on my career, and that emotional independence, and it feels really great to be in that space. So I thought when I started dating again, that would actually make dating easier. But I feel like it's getting so much harder to actually find someone who is willing to come to the table and meet me where I am. So my question for Scott is, as women continue to level up more and more, why do you think that we can't find as many men that are willing to meet us there?
48:57 Speaker 01 So, what you said was really telling, that you're pouring your energy into family, friends, and work. That is very telling. That's more indicative of women than men. And that is, women tend to channel that energy, that romantic energy, or lack thereof, or interest into very positive things, whereas men sometimes channel it into into negative things. The reality is, my message, I'm not here with a message for hope on this, because the reality is, women made socioeconomically horizontally up. Women, generally speaking, and this isn't true for everybody, but generally speaking, women who graduated from college don't want to date men who didn't graduate from college. Not always, but generally speaking. It's the high heels effect.
49:40 Speaker 01 And again, this is an uncomfortable conversation.
49:45 Speaker 01 Fifty percent of women say they would never date a man shorter than them. I think that's bullshit. I think it's more like eighty percent. I think women instinctively want a dude they feel that could physically protect them. And the problem is, or the issue is, and it's both a wonderful thing, but something that's created knock-on effects in mating, is that women metaphorically are getting taller every year, and men appear to be getting shorter. What I'm saying metaphorically. And the divorce rates have skyrocketed, and 70% of divorce filings are from women. And it's because, and it's actually for some good reasons. Women no longer feel like they're economically indentured servants. They have their own game. And their ascent economically
50:26 Speaker 01 has not been matched by men's ascent emotionally and logistically. So women wake up and say, okay, I'm making more money than you. You're not pulling your weight at home, and you're kind of not there for me. You're not really noticing me. And so a lot of women are doing the math and exiting the relationship. What I would say is, what you're feeling, quite frankly, I think is what a lot of women are feeling. And a lot of women say there are no good men to date, or there are no men to date. No, there just aren't that many men they'd want to date. And so where I try to go to solutions is, how do we lift up young people such that they're all, or more of them are economically viable, which I think will, on the margin, lift up or disproportionately impact young men.
51:09 Speaker 01 But just the fact that you said you're self-conscious or aware enough to pour that energy into really productive things means you're going to be fine. I don't think romantic love is the be-all, end-all for everybody. It's really rewarding. But I think you can find what I'll call that sort of purpose, relational love, in a lot of different areas. And the fact that you're even thinking about how you channel that energy into stuff that's more productive, you're the role model for young men right now. Not everyone's going to find romantic love right away. Or it's going to happen, it's going to take longer. But how do you, how do you transfer it into more productive means that make you a better person, a better citizen, a better sister, better daughter? So anyways, this is a long-winded way of saying,
51:54 Speaker 01 right on. You're, you're, you're being a productive human. You're going to be happy regardless if you find that or not. And I just wish more men would take your lead and say, all right, maybe things aren't working out for me romantically. I'm going to continue to work on myself. And I'm going to pour that energy into other relationships.
52:13 Speaker 09 Yeah, that's what Brendan did. That's what he said at the very beginning.
52:17 Oprah Winfrey? We have to take a break now. I want to know what our audience is taking away from this conversation. Maybe the same a-ha's you're having. That's when we come back.
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52:55 Oprah Winfrey? Welcome back to my conversation with Scott Galloway and an audience of young men. Here we go. So we have another question. Mike, what's your question?
53:03 Speaker 15 So, thanks Scott. This really touches home for me. My wife and I have triplets, 24 years old. My one son graduated from college, he's doing pretty well, lives in Chicago, works for a big firm. My son actually is, has a job, but he's not happy with it at all. My daughter went on to get a master's degree. My question to you is, as you stated earlier, this is the generation that we don't see outdoing their parents. My wife and I, kind of troubling to us. What can we do as parents? What advice would you have for this generation? And what can we do as a society to help out?
53:40 Speaker 01 So, the first thing is you and your wife need to forgive yourselves, recognizing the market's bigger than any individual performance. So by virtue of the fact you're really involved in your kids' lives, that's probably the most important thing, just being there and present. But I do think we need to acknowledge that, again, there are programs, economic and social programs, to help lift young people up. One out of three young men under the age of 25 is living at home. One out of five men, right, is living still at home at the age of 30. So the number of people living at home, men living at home, has doubled. And it creates rage and shame across our whole culture, because whether you want to
54:23 Speaker 01 or not, you're kind of, by them living with it, you're kind of a reminder, they're not doing well, and you also take it on like... You know, at the end of the day, as fathers and as mothers, we feel like that's our one job, right? And so when it's not going well, it just attacks our self-esteem. So without knowing your specific situation and not having the domain expertise to counsel you in a thoughtful way, what I can say is this is an issue facing America. I think it's our biggest issue. And we need to stop sending to DC a cross between the Golden Girls and the land of the dead. Two-thirds of Congress is going to be dead in 25 years. Do you think they're really worried? Do you think they're really worried about you or the national deficit or climate change?
55:08 Speaker 01 So my point is, young people, vote, get out. And also, as a parent, forgive yourself. You're doing your best, and a lot of this is out of your control.
55:19 Speaker 15 Yeah, one more, because as you said, being there in the home form. My parents didn't know where the heck I was when I was these guys' age. Is that helpful or is that a hindrance?
55:31 Speaker 01 I actually think it was a good thing. I think we overprotect our kids offline and underprotect them online. We won't let a nine-year-old, two-thirds of nine-year-olds have never walked down a grocery shopping aisle alone, but they go online where they face, they interact with strangers and bots. I used to leave my mom's house at 9:00 AM on a Saturday morning with an Abba Zaba bar, a Schwinn bike, and 35 cents, and she wouldn't see me for 14 hours. I got bullied, I got into trouble, and it was great for me. It was great for me. I developed resilience, a sense of adventure, camaraderie. I'm not suggesting anyone should be traumatized, but we overprotect children.
56:15 Speaker 01 The two things that appear to be spiking teen depression are one, when social and on mobile, and also the concierge bulldozer parenting of my generation, where we clear out every obstacle for kids, and then they get to college and they get their first D or they get their heart broken, and they literally freak out. They've never known that. So it's a combination of things, but I think the over-parenting of my generation, I don't know if you're guilty of this or not, but I would not come home till 11:00 PM. My son's five minutes late from school. We call MI6 in the CIA. So I think some of it is overprotection. I don't think it's been a good thing for kids.
56:53 Oprah Winfrey? Thank you, Mike. Thank you, Mike. Thank you for this book.
56:56 Speaker 01 Thank you.
56:57 Oprah Winfrey? Thank you. You're all getting it.
57:01 Speaker 01 All right.
57:05 Oprah Winfrey? At the end of the book, I love the message. It's a long message, so I wanted you to summarize. You write a message to your sons. What is the ultimate message that you want to give them and want to give to the world through this book?
57:20 Speaker 01 Well, so at the end of the book, I wrote a letter to my sons.
57:24 Oprah Winfrey? Which I think everybody should write a letter to their sons.
57:27 Speaker 01 Sure, why not?
57:27 Oprah Winfrey? As I was reading that, I was thinking, yeah, everybody should write a letter to their sons.
57:31 Speaker 01 One, first and foremost, I want them to know how immensely I love them. Two, I want them to really, to realize the best decision their dad made and the best decision they made was being born in America. I really do think there are certain wonderful attributes, some of which unfortunately appear to be on pause right now. I hope they haven't gone away. But I hope that they always appreciate how fortunate and blessed they were to be born in America and that they reinvest in America. And then more than anything, that they take care of their mom.
58:07 Oprah Winfrey? Thank you.
58:08 Speaker 01 Thank you.
58:08 Oprah Winfrey? Notes on being a man. Scott Galloway, big shout out. Thank you, New York.
58:17 Speaker 16 Beautiful.
58:18 Speaker 01 Thank you.
58:19 Speaker 16 Beautiful color, too.
58:22 Oprah Winfrey? Wow, that was interesting. Thank you, guys. Thanks for coming out on a rainy day in New York City. Thank you. Thank you. So what will be your takeaway? Be kind. Be kind. Get out to the ballot box and vote, vote, vote. Yeah. That was one of my big takeaways, too. It's clear, yes.
58:42 Speaker 17 My big one was take care of your mom. I just lost my dad this year, so very important to me.
58:49 Speaker 18 Be an active participant in the redefinition of masculinity.
58:53 Oprah Winfrey? Well, now. Okay, I love that. I love that.
58:59 Speaker 19 Don't just listen to this conversation. Go do something. Go mentor a younger man.
59:05 Oprah Winfrey? Go mentor a younger man.
59:07 Speaker 13 Men have struggles too, and I can accept that. And we can work with it.
59:11 Oprah Winfrey? We can work with it, yeah.
59:13 Speaker 20 My takeaway is that men don't want to be told how to be men. We want to feel like men. So create spaces for men to thrive, to access the full range of emotions that we have access to, and model behavior.
59:25 Oprah Winfrey? And model behavior. Did you have a takeaway, Brandon?
59:28 Speaker 07 Be okay with rejection. Go for it. Like, don't worry about getting told no. Um, it's okay.
59:33 Oprah Winfrey? Thank you all for being here. Thank you so much.
59:38 Oprah Winfrey? You can subscribe to the Oprah Podcast on YouTube and follow us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen. I'll see you next week. Thanks, everybody.
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