160: Lessons Learned From Two Decades Of Senior Military Leadership | Colonel Ed Arnston

I sit down with Colonel Edward Arntson III, who has 24 years of military service, to unpack what leadership really demands when it counts. We start with self-leadership: how you show up, how you carry yourself, and why humility isn’t optional. We get into competence, intellectual curiosity, and the overlooked power of energy and tone. What you tolerate becomes the standard. Colonel Arntson shares hard-earned lessons from leading in garrison and in combat, including moments that tested his decision-making, confidence, and character. If you’re building a team, leading a family, or trying to lead yourself better, this episode delivers practical takeaways you can apply immediately. More about Colonel Ed Arntson: Ed Arntson, from Buffalo Grove, Illinois, graduated from Concordia College (2002) and commissioned as a Distinguished Military Graduate infantry officer through NDSU. He led rifle and company units in Alaska, Afghanistan, and Iraq, was wounded in combat, and later served with The Old Guard, including a landmark deployment to Taji, Iraq. After CGSC and SAMS, he held planning and operations roles with 1st Cavalry Division, deployed to Korea and Baghdad, and served on the Joint Staff. He commanded 3-187 Infantry and 3rd Brigade, 1st Cavalry Division. His education includes Ranger and airborne schools. He’s married with two children. Tone Range Fan: https://fromthegreennotebook.com/2025/09/08/the-tone-range-fan-a-tool-for-leaders-at-all-levels/ CHAPTERS: 00:00 Introduction 05:07 The Importance of Leadership Development 15:31 The Role of Feedback in Leadership 27:22 The Power of Tone in Leadership 41:59 The Power of Tone in Communication 48:25 Building Effective Teams Through Peer Leadership 52:37 The Importance of Humility and Tone in Leadership 01:06:04 Early Military Career and Deployment Experiences 01:21:01 Dedication and Commitment in the Military 01:39:26 The Impact of 9/11 on ROTC and Military Careers 01:45:54 The Importance of Physical and Mental Readiness 01:52:27 A Formula for Effective Leadership 02:00:06 Final Thoughts on Leadership and Inspiration Become a BPN member FOR FREE - Unlock 25% off FOR LIFE ⁠ https://www.bareperformancenutrition.com/collections/performance-nutrition FOLLOW: IG: instagram.com/nickbarefitness/ YT: youtube.com/@nickbarefitness

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Nick Bare?

  We are offering the greatest subscription discount that we have ever offered before. 25% off at bpnsubs.com. When you sign up for a supplement subscription on our website in 2026, you are saving 25% off, which is a crazy offer, something we've never done before. So I would highly encourage you guys to take advantage of this discount, this sale, this promotion and this opportunity. So you can stay consistent and committed to your goals this year. Now into the episode.

• 0:45Nick Bare?

  Ladies and gentlemen, today on the podcast, we have Colonel Edward Aronson III. Welcome.

• 0:53Speaker 01

  Thank you very much. Awesome. Really a pleasure to be here.

• 0:56Nick Bare?

  I'm pumped for this conversation.

• 0:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 0:58Nick Bare?

  You have 24 years.

• 1:00Speaker 01

  24 years in the army.

• 1:01Nick Bare?

  24 years military experience.

• 1:03Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:05Nick Bare?

  I couldn't think of a better person to share real leadership value, experience, lessons. And,

• 1:16Nick Bare?

  you know, over these last 10 plus years of my life, I've learned that leadership is not a, a direct responsibility in an organization or a team or a unit, but it's to lead yourself, to lead your family, be a leader in society, in a community, in the world.

• 1:35Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 1:36Nick Bare?

  It's a huge responsibility and obligation, an opportunity that we have to lean into.

• 1:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 1:44Nick Bare?

  Before we dive into some of this stuff, I was thinking about, you know, we just got done working out.

• 1:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:50Nick Bare?

  How we got connected initially.

• 1:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:52Nick Bare?

  It was a 5K.

• 1:53Speaker 01

  It was a 5K at Fort Hood.

• 1:55Nick Bare?

  Yep.

• 1:56Speaker 01

  Veterans Day.

• 1:59Speaker 01

  2024.

• 2:01Nick Bare?

  Yeah.

• 2:01Speaker 01

  Yeah. And my guy at the time is working for me, Hayden Haupt, reached out to your team and to ask if you'd be interested in coming to do it. And I thought that was a fantastic event, just to, you know, celebrate veterans and all the things that they've done, continue to do in our communities, in our country. Number one, and then number two, you know, your business is, you know, you're a veteran, is a veteran owned business and for you to be, have been a veteran of the first cavalry division, you know, and have served at Fort Hood and come back and kind of lead that

• 2:43Speaker 01

  and be there with your team along with the RWB team was a really neat event and a lot of fun.

• 2:50Nick Bare?

  Yeah. Any opportunity that we can get re-engaged with the military community means a lot to me.

• 2:56Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 2:57Nick Bare?

  You know, we, we built the brand and the business and our core values were solidified and founded during my time in the army.

• 3:07Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 3:08Nick Bare?

  Graduating from IUP, commissioning, spending a year at Fort Benning, coming down here to Fort Hood. I mean, those years, 2014 is when I first got to Texas at Fort Hood.

• 3:20Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 3:20Nick Bare?

  Transition out of the army in 2017 after a nine month rotation in South Korea. Which I believe I was in South Korea right after you were there.

• 3:28Speaker 01

  No, so we were there at the same time because you were down in 212 Cav.

• 3:35Nick Bare?

  I was.

• 3:35Speaker 01

  And I was the Brigade S3. I was in Korea, right? I was there at Camp Hove, working in the Brigade Headquarters. And I was there for the first five months of that deployment to Korea in early 2016. And then left there and went to Baghdad to work on the, at the time, the Combined Joint Task Force, Operation Inherent Resolve staff. So left the job as the Brigade Operations Officer for Iron Horse and went there. But we were, we were there for about five months at the same time. I'm sure you had a lot of visits to Rodriguez Range Complex.

• 4:14Nick Bare?

  Oh, yeah.

• 4:14Speaker 01

  And a couple of other spots. But yeah, we were there same time.

• 4:18Nick Bare?

  I didn't realize that.

• 4:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 4:21Nick Bare?

  Yeah, I mean, those years for me were, like I said, foundational.

• 4:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:25Nick Bare?

  And they shaped me as a man.

• 4:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:28Nick Bare?

  As a leader, as a, as a business owner. And it's been really enjoyable. You know, these last couple of months, having you bringing parts of your team back to BPN HQ to run through several workouts.

• 4:41Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 4:41Nick Bare?

  We've been really enjoying that. The team's been loving it. Just being exposed to the military community and leaders. And that they, a lot of them just haven't been around that.

• 4:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:55Nick Bare?

  Or, or felt that energy before.

• 4:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:57Nick Bare?

  So it's been a great experience for the whole team.

• 4:59Speaker 01

  Well, good, I'm glad. And I would just tell you that the feeling is mutual. Um, that, uh, so many of our soldiers, of our leaders, you know, now for me and Third S Fab, our advisors, um, look up to what you guys do here at, at BPN. Uh, and so the opportunity to, to partner on some things, you know, to do some training, potentially do, you know, some stuff we're talking about in the future, I know is, is special to them and the opportunities to come here and train. And in the videos that they, you know, for them, it's only kind of existed online. The opportunity to come train here, uh, meet you, meet your team is really neat. So we appreciate it.

• 5:36Nick Bare?

  Yeah, thank you. I'm looking forward to what we do in the future.

• 5:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:40Nick Bare?

  The event at the ranch.

• 5:42Speaker 01

  It's gonna be awesome.

• 5:43Nick Bare?

  We'll break some people off and, and build them back up.

• 5:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's gonna be good.

• 5:46Nick Bare?

  So I really wanna, to focus on, on leadership throughout this conversation.

• 5:51Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 5:52Nick Bare?

  And like I say, I don't think there's anyone better to, to talk about leadership. You know, I've, I've been exposed to the military side. I've been, uh, exposed to the corporate side. I've been exposed to the founder, CEO, startup side.

• 6:09Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 6:10Nick Bare?

  And I have so much respect for military leadership. And what I learned during my, my short four years while in.

• 6:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:22Nick Bare?

  But I learned from some really great leaders. And I've also learned from some really bad leaders.

• 6:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's right.

• 6:29Nick Bare?

  What to do and what not to do.

• 6:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:32Nick Bare?

  But before we dive into that, you know, I want to ask you a question and, and get your, uh, perspective on it. And I'm sure you've been asked this question before and. It might seem cookie cutter, um, but I'm really curious your perspective based off your experience and it's, do you think leaders are born or built? And why I think your perspective is interesting is because in a workplace culture like I'm in right now with BPN, we can give people the time to develop as leaders.

• 7:09Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 7:10Nick Bare?

  Because there is risk, but the risk is not lives.

• 7:14Speaker 01

  Right.

• 7:14Nick Bare?

  You are operating in an environment where the risk of keeping a subpar leader in place and allowing them to develop on your time is the risk of lives in combat in theater.

• 7:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, it can be.

• 7:30Nick Bare?

  So do you think that true leaders are born or built, maybe a combination of two, but at the core are the best leaders, do they have it in their, their blood, is it in their DNA?

• 7:43Speaker 01

  I do think for some of the very best leaders, Nick, it is, I think it's kind of in their DNA. I really do. Um, and you can maybe see that with, that might, that might come across through some natural charisma, uh, that, that they've got or ability to connect, uh, with people, uh, that they're leading. But I also think leaders can be trained and leaders can be in a sense that you described built. Uh, and I think that that takes in, in many ways, you see this and I'll, I can speak from the perspective of the army.

• 8:24Speaker 01

  Sometimes it takes a few years before you really start to see the, the true potential in somebody come out. And as folks are given opportunities and.

• 8:41Speaker 01

  I think continue to put forth effort, right? If if someone is given a leadership opportunity and they put forth, you know, almost no effort, it's like, okay, you you have voted and, you know, we're going to put you over here because you're clearly not valuing the opportunity to impact this formation, this organization, et cetera. But I think through consistent coaching, consistent counseling, and then also in the army, education on, you know, like on the institutional side, you can see folks really start to develop. And if people are putting forth the effort,

• 9:23Speaker 01

  um, you might not see somebody will say, you know, you you got out as a captain. But maybe somebody starts to really hit their stride at four, five, six years in the army because they've had some foundational experiences. They've learned, they do have a little bit of natural ability. And then they really start to grow, you know, they hit that one job, that one assignment that they've got, and then they're also they're partnered maybe with the right, you know, like we'll talk from the army perspective, the the right senior NCO that's there to coach and help lead a young officer. And then you might see that person really hit their stride and take off.

• 10:08Speaker 01

  Yeah. So, you know, to really answer your question, I do think, I think for the really, the super talented, you know, guys that may go on, whether they have a a deep career and future in the army, you know, or the military as, you know, as a multi-star general, as a really senior non-commissioned officer. I do think some of those folks have that kind of innate in their bones. But I do think there's a large component that leaders can be trained and can be built uh, over time, especially if you've got folks that are pouring into them, right? And and developing them. Yeah. Uh, I'll give you one example from my time commanding Grey Wolf.

• 10:53Speaker 01

  I had a young officer and in in the army, you get an evaluation report.

• 11:01Speaker 01

  And the sort of old school terminology is there's a center of mass and above center of mass. Now it's highly qualified or most qualified. Most qualified is a top block OER. And I brought this young man in and he was on my staff and I gave him a most qualified OER as his brigade commander. And I had asked him, hey, have you ever received an MQ OER before? He said, no, sir. This is the first one that I've ever received. And I was floored. I was absolutely floored because of how talented this young man was, how great of a teammate he was. And I mean, he's everything you'd want. You

• 11:46Speaker 01

  know, I mean, he was humble. He was unselfish. He killed himself for the team. I mean, it was just, it was so impressive what this young man did. And then I gave him another opportunity. He absolutely smashed it as an operations officer for our support battalion. He absolutely crushed it. He's now a company commander. He's in Europe. He's doing fantastic over there. Right? So just a little bit, sometimes it also takes, I think, a leader to recognize and just objectively evaluate folks to say, I really don't care what other folks have said about, you know, this person. I see a tremendous amount of value and a

• 12:29Speaker 01

  tremendous amount of potential in this person. And I'm going to give him a chance. Right? And I think this young man in particular that I'm talking about, if he wants to stay in the army, if he wants to go in the business world, he's going to be incredibly successful regardless.

• 12:45Nick Bare?

  Sometimes you just need that, that small confidence booster.

• 12:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:51Nick Bare?

  To allow you to realize, oh, I got potential.

• 12:55Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 12:57Nick Bare?

  As I was thinking about, as you were speaking, leaders who are born versus built. If I think of all the leaders that I've ever come across, even in this business, who I believe are natural, have natural born leadership abilities, it is that effort that you're talking about.

• 13:20Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 13:21Nick Bare?

  They actually want to be leaders.

• 13:23Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 13:24Nick Bare?

  And I've had to learn the hard way. I used to think that everyone wanted to level up. You know, they start at a role here at BPN or in the military and they enlist and they want to be a team leader. They want to be a squad leader.

• 13:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:38Nick Bare?

  They want to be a platoon sergeant.

• 13:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:40Nick Bare?

  They want more and more and more. And I thought everyone wanted that. And I learned the hard way that not everyone wants more responsibility.

• 13:48Speaker 01

  Hundred percent.

• 13:49Nick Bare?

  And leadership, you have to have that drive in you. You have to have that dog. You have to have the effort.

• 13:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:54Nick Bare?

  Because I've tried to give people leadership responsibilities and they say, no, I don't want that.

• 13:59Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 14:00Nick Bare?

  So I think part of the natural born ability is the desire.

• 14:05Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 14:07Nick Bare?

  You have to want to be an effective, strong leader. You have to want to lead people.

• 14:11Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 14:12Nick Bare?

  You have to care about people.

• 14:13Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 14:14Nick Bare?

  And at the core of leadership, that's what it is and that's what we do.

• 14:19Speaker 01

  A hundred percent.

• 14:20Nick Bare?

  It's all about the people.

• 14:21Speaker 01

  A hundred percent. And I would say too, I've coached people for years in the army to tell them that as you continue, as you continue to get promoted, right? If you go from sergeant to staff sergeant to sergeant first class to master sergeant just in the army, right? Or on the officer side, captain to major lieutenant colonel. You have to be getting better. You have to be improving. If, if you as a lieutenant colonel are still doing, you know, now it doesn't mean you remove successful practices that you do as a leader. But if you're not continually seeking ways to grow and improve as a leader as you continue

• 15:02Speaker 01

  to progress in your career, and this is the same in the, in the business world as well, then you're gonna, you're gonna likely flatline and, you know, you'll, you'll kind of top out, um, wherever that place is, that, that effort stops coming, that the intellectual curiosity, right, starts to die off, and then you're gonna kind of flatline, you know, what's the saying, water finds its level, right, and then you're probably gonna move out.

• 15:31Nick Bare?

  Yeah.

• 15:31Speaker 01

  Um, now, some folks, they still might have that hunger, but maybe it's not, hey, I've, I've still got this hunger, but I'm gonna step away from the military, and I'm gonna do that in my community, in a, in the business world or whatever. Um, but some folks, you know, they get comfortable, right? And then it's the, well, I don't, you know, I want the promotion, I want the money, you know?

• 15:56Nick Bare?

  Without the responsibility.

• 15:57Speaker 01

  Without the responsibility and without the ability, excuse me, to, you know, keep, keep progressing, keep improving, uh, and, and figuring out new ways, uh, to just get better as a leader.

• 16:09Nick Bare?

  Yeah. Remind me, is, is, does OER stand for Officer Evaluation Report?

• 16:14Speaker 01

  It does, yep.

• 16:15Nick Bare?

  And then NCOER is Non-Commissioned Officer Evaluation Report?

• 16:20Speaker 01

  That is correct.

• 16:21Nick Bare?

  And these are essentially, uh, feedback reports on how an individual is performing at their role?

• 16:29Speaker 01

  A hundred percent.

• 16:30Nick Bare?

  What is the cadence in which these are, uh, created and shared?

• 16:34Speaker 01

  Most often annually.

• 16:36Nick Bare?

  Okay.

• 16:37Speaker 01

  Uh, they can be created sometimes if there's a leadership changeover, which is called a change of rater. Uh, so, you know, I, I'm working for Nick, but Nick, uh, changes out of his job because he's going to another job, and I've worked for him six, seven, eight months. Okay, that's, that might generate an OER, uh, or an NCOER for our, for our enlisted folks.

• 16:58Nick Bare?

  Reason I ask this, I think back to when I was in the army as a double team leader, and the OER and NCOER.

• 17:11Nick Bare?

  Burden, if you will.

• 17:13Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 17:13Nick Bare?

  It felt like a burden.

• 17:16Nick Bare?

  It was just like, hey, we gotta do this annually.

• 17:18Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 17:19Nick Bare?

  Let's just get through it, do them. Now, as I reflect back on the importance and value of the OER and NCOER, I wish then I would have valued it more than I did. You know, as we were talking, we were working out how important it is for people under you, when you're in a leadership position, to know what success looks like.

• 17:44Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 17:45Nick Bare?

  Like, how do you, how do you measure success? And if someone who is working for you and you're leading someone doesn't know or understand what success looks like.

• 17:53Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 17:54Nick Bare?

  It's really hard for them to, to work towards.

• 17:57Speaker 01

  It is.

• 17:58Nick Bare?

  A, a vision, or a, a metric, or a data point. Now, I'm, I'm thinking back as we're talking, man, I wish I would have really understood how valuable those NCOERs were.

• 18:09Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 18:10Nick Bare?

  Because it would have allowed me to develop subordinate leaders in a more effective way.

• 18:15Speaker 01

  Absolutely. It is a great time.

• 18:20Speaker 01

  And I'm glad you've reflected on that, Nick. And it's,

• 18:26Speaker 01

  it's a great time to bring folks in and, and just say, hey, here's where I see you. Here's where you stand. Because the fact of the matter is, in the army, we have, we have so many incredible people. You're judged against your peers. And so, only so many people can get promoted. Only so many people can get the, the top block OER, even with, even with so many, so many great folks. And so, but it's a great time to bring folks in, sit them down, and, and give folks feedback. I spent a lot of time, especially in my last brigade command, sitting down with folks and talking through with them where they stood, right?

• 19:10Speaker 01

  And then what the development plan for them was going forward. And sometimes. You've got to spend a little more time with maybe the middle and not bottom, but just maybe some of the folks that didn't get a top block because you've got to sit down and explain to them where they need to improve. Sometimes your uber top performers, you know, they just need to, you know, hey, I need you to do, I need you to work on these one or two things. Everything else, keep doing what you're doing. And they're like, okay, I got it, sir. Appreciate it. And, you know, those might be pretty short conversations with your uber high performers. But some folks that you want to kind of pour into and develop a little bit,

• 19:51Speaker 01

  those are the conversations that are actually can be a little bit longer. You know, especially as you move on in the army and these reports become consequential for promotion and moving on.

• 20:04Nick Bare?

  Do you think that the army or the military as a whole is effective at the evaluation report process? And let me add some context to that.

• 20:14Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 20:16Nick Bare?

  Feedback is hard.

• 20:18Speaker 01

  It is.

• 20:18Nick Bare?

  Candid conversations, hard conversations are really hard.

• 20:21Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 20:22Nick Bare?

  And it's much easier to avoid them than to confront them.

• 20:25Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 20:26Nick Bare?

  And there's an ask the question. I mean, when I transitioned out of the military and I started building VPN, those first couple of months and even years were easy from a leadership perspective because I didn't have many employees to lead. And I have to make many hard people decisions or have many hard conversations. But when I had to start letting people go and having the hard conversations, that's when it started getting challenging. That's also where I started to really grow and develop as a leader.

• 21:04Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 21:05Nick Bare?

  Those conversations used to be very challenging and they're still difficult, but.

• 21:11Nick Bare?

  You become comfortable in the uncomfortable conversations because you know the growth that happens on the other side.

• 21:17Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 21:18Nick Bare?

  How do you think, because I mean, I'm managing and running a company that has 45 people. We're talking the military. We're talking the army. How many people are in the army?

• 21:31Speaker 01

  Uh, let's see. I think you're talking a million. I think it's 1.1 million total and there's about a half a million, just under half a million in the active duty force in the army.

• 21:42Nick Bare?

  So if I think of just like that multiple and the amount of leadership that has to be so effective and strong.

• 21:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:51Nick Bare?

  How effective do you think the evaluation report process is? Are those hard conversations being had or can they be better?

• 22:01Speaker 01

  Uh, just to be very frank, I think some people do it better than others.

• 22:07Speaker 01

  I had captains that came in and sat, that I sat down with in, uh, in my previous brigade command and I haven't really got to with, um, with third S Fab now where I command now. I haven't really had those, a lot of those conversations yet because you know, we're, we're kind of usually OER season, NCOER season is like spring and summer, right? As folks are transitioning. So we haven't had that yet, but in my previous command, you know, I sat down with captains and sometimes they'd say, you know, hey, sir, this is the first time anyone's actually counseled me. And this is a captain who's maybe been in the army six, seven or eight years and you know, I, I kind of think that's criminal, you know, that, that someone didn't sit them

• 22:48Speaker 01

  down and go through with them, you know, strengths, weaknesses, development plan, what do you want to do, uh, in the army? What are your goals? Uh, and so simply put, I think some folks do it better than others. And I would say if you're doing it right, you can.

• 23:09Speaker 01

  Take care of, you know, there's a, there's a personnel in the civilian world, it would be HR side of this. If you're doing it right, you can take care of a lot of people. Uh, there were a lot of company commanders in Grey Wolf in my last brigade. I think that are going to get promoted to major because, you know, we knew the right way to do it, uh, in terms of, um, you know, how I wrote reports, uh, for folks, uh, but then also to, to take care of the most quality folks in the organization that really deserved it and that wanted to go on and continue and to continue to serve as,

• 23:51Speaker 01

  uh, as majors and continue to be senior leaders in the army. And yeah, a lot of those conversations, they can be difficult, especially with folks who maybe think, hey, I think I'm at this level. And then you as their boss are telling them, hey, I'm, I'm sorry. I don't see you there and here's why. And I think, you know, we were talking a little bit about, you know, tone, tone range fan. I think you can have very sincere and you can have very direct conversations with people. You know, that are effective in the leader development realm.

• 24:32Speaker 01

  If your tone is right and you're not, you know, it's not a, it's not a, hey, my name's Ed and I don't like you. And so, you know, here's your center of mass report. Goodbye. It's here's where I see you relative to your peers. And we got, if you want to continue to, you know, continue to have an opportunity to advance, here's where I think you need to improve. Right. And have, have some data, have some metrics for these folks or have, you know, it's very, very tangible examples of, hey, there was a time where I was really looking for you and counting on you in this,

• 25:15Speaker 01

  you know, in this exercise and this time period. And I didn't really see what I was looking for, uh, out of you. And I think for folks who are, if you're having those honest conversations, I think you get good self-assessment out of folks too, where they, they sit back and they're like,

• 25:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, sir, if I reflect on that, I probably wasn't at my best then. And you, you know, then we can have a dialogue about how to improve. Instead of, you know, kind of arguing with the ref. You know, well, that's BS and you didn't, you didn't see this and you didn't see that.

• 25:56Speaker 01

  And that, you know, those conversations can be a little bit counterproductive. Right. And I've actually, I've had conversations with folks that write extremely consequential reports, especially for, for the majors that I served as, you know, it's called their senior raider in the army. I had one guy in particular, had done good work. But I wasn't necessarily seeing him with the other top majors in the brigade. And

• 26:27Speaker 01

  I told him where I saw him.

• 26:30Speaker 01

  And he kind of, he was very professional, very calm. And he kind of argued his case for why he thought, hey, sir, here's why I think I'm in the top, the top tier instead of kind of the center tier. And we had a really good conversation about it. He did not get upset. He did not get defensive, right? His tone towards me was he was still humble. He was still very respectful. And he very clearly laid out what he had done. And some of those things I frankly hadn't taken into consideration. And I kind of stepped back. I went and talked to my personnel officer and I said, hey, how can we do this? How can we take care of this officer?

• 27:13Speaker 01

  And he was like, this is kind of how I think we can do it, you know? And I was like, okay, let's do that. And I called him about 10 minutes later. And said, hey, man, I'm gonna bump you up. And he was like, hey, sir, thanks. I really appreciate it. Right? But if he had been defensive, if right, if he had kind of come at me, you know, sort of like, you know, arguing with the flag on the play. I, I don't think that would have gone well for him. But in, in his case, right? We were having very direct, very sincere conversation about areas where I thought he fell short. But then he's like, hey, what, hey, sir, what about all these areas where I think I've done really well?

• 27:56Speaker 01

  And it's like, man, it's a good point, you know? Let me go back and see what I can do.

• 28:01Nick Bare?

  I was gonna save this part of the conversation for later on, but I feel like this is a good segue. Talking about the tone range fan.

• 28:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:12Nick Bare?

  And we will link this article.

• 28:14Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 28:15Nick Bare?

  That you you created within the show notes of this.

• 28:19Speaker 01

  Okay, awesome.

• 28:20Nick Bare?

  I think it's really powerful.

• 28:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:22Nick Bare?

  As I was telling you earlier, I'm currently reading The Energy Bus.

• 28:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:27Nick Bare?

  By John Gordon.

• 28:28Speaker 01

  Awesome book, yeah.

• 28:28Nick Bare?

  It's a great book. It's pretty simplistic.

• 28:32Speaker 01

  Very simplistic.

• 28:33Nick Bare?

  In form and storytelling and just the message.

• 28:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:38Nick Bare?

  Of positivity. But considering yourself a leader, energy and tone are so important.

• 28:47Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 28:48Nick Bare?

  Now, I was just like thinking about what leadership is. Leadership is its vision, its communication, its courage, its energy, its tone, its humility. As you talk about.

• 28:56Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 28:57Nick Bare?

  Selflessness rooted firm, steady. And if you can get energy right and get tone right, that breaks down a lot of barriers.

• 29:08Speaker 01

  It does.

• 29:09Nick Bare?

  That people put up in almost a defensive position.

• 29:12Speaker 01

  It does.

• 29:13Nick Bare?

  You're talking about just how that that major had a productive conversation with you.

• 29:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:20Nick Bare?

  In a healthy defense to his evaluation.

• 29:23Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 29:24Nick Bare?

  The opposite of that, like you talk about in this article, intellectual arrogance.

• 29:29Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 29:30Nick Bare?

  Often another cornerstone of our worst tone. Intellectual arrogance is driven in large part by the fact that a leader's or subordinate's ideas are the best. And that everyone else's are the worst, which is driven by pride.

• 29:45Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 29:45Nick Bare?

  Ego arrogance.

• 29:47Speaker 01

  Yes, insecurity.

• 29:48Nick Bare?

  Insecurity. I personally really dislike when I'm going to have a conversation with someone and I'm faced with intellectual arrogance.

• 29:59Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 30:00Nick Bare?

  Because you know that that conversation is going to be unproductive.

• 30:04Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 30:05Nick Bare?

  And that you almost have to like really guide them into where you're trying to get to.

• 30:10Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 30:12Nick Bare?

  But I want to hang around this this tone range fan a little bit and and how you got to this realization and these concepts because as I was reading through the article you shared with me.

• 30:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:23Nick Bare?

  I sent this to some of my advisors.

• 30:24Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 30:25Nick Bare?

  I sent it to our leadership team, our brand team. Because if people can understand this.

• 30:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:31Nick Bare?

  Mashed with energy.

• 30:32Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 30:33Nick Bare?

  It will make them a much more effective leader through communication.

• 30:38Speaker 01

  Absolutely. Yeah, it's. For me, it came about, I developed it in in command of Grey Wolf. And it was something I put on my whiteboard. And something I had been thinking deeply about in in my first in my first six or seven months in command of Grey Wolf. So early 2024. And I thought about it in terms of, you know, in the army and then especially, you know, kind of in the combat arm side, you have a a range fan for a weapon system, right? So you apply the range fan to the terrain to see, especially in a training environment,

• 31:20Speaker 01

  to see if, you know, the training exercise that you're about to do, in most cases, you know, in this case, it'd be a live fire exercise. Is this going to be safe relative to where we have people and live ammunition and targets? You know, and then how the maneuver fits with all that? And so I started to think about how much as a leader, your tone can be used, right? Positively, right? When it's kept in, the way I was thinking about it is, hey, when your when your tone is within this range fan, it can be applied very effectively and you can have

• 32:04Speaker 01

  the effect, intended effect you want to have as a leader. And when it's applied the wrong way, when we get outside of what we call the surface danger zone for for tone with when, whether you're a subordinate or a leader, when you get on the far right or left of the of the of the tone range fan. You start to have problems. It starts to be more about you and less about the development of your subordinates or the betterment of the organization. And so I have had the opportunity to, to coach a lot of folks using the Tone Range Fan to

• 32:48Speaker 01

  help them improve as leaders and really just help them see, do you understand that this is where you're being perceived in how you are engaging with your team, right? With your staff, with, you know, if it's a company commander, with your company commander, if it's up to your boss. And so I've been able to, you know, I think make some breakthroughs with folks using, using that Tone Range Fan to help them really just understand their impact, right? Whether it's up and out or whether that's down and in.

• 33:24Nick Bare?

  What's interesting about tone is that you have to be aware of the tone that you are using when you're talking to someone. And I'm sure we've, we've heard or said it ourselves, I like that tone.

• 33:39Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 33:40Nick Bare?

  I don't like that tone you got going with me right now.

• 33:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:42Nick Bare?

  Because even if you're saying something and you attend, but you actually feel something else, your tone will depict your true feelings.

• 33:51Speaker 01

  That's right. It, it, it's a hundred percent. I had a guy, um, he worked for me in, in, uh, in this last command. He's still in Gray Wolf. He's the Brigade Operations Officer and we had served together at a previous, uh, at a previous duty station. And it was one of my first meetings and I was a battalion commander at the time and I had forgot about this interaction and the guy I'm talking about, uh, his name's Steve. Steve reminded me, he goes, so it's kind of funny you wrote an article about tone. And I was like, why is that? He goes, do you not remember one of your first interactions as a, when you're a battalion commander? Um, with, and this other guy's, his name was Brett and Brett was one of my company commanders.

• 34:34Speaker 01

  He's a great, great guy. We're, we're still in touch and Brett had said something to me. And, um, there was a little, there was a little arrogance in, uh, and he, Brett's a great leader, great company commander, but there was a little, there was a touch of intellectual arrogance and, and probably slight contempt in his voice as he was talking to me about something we were doing, training wise, inside the battalion. And I just turned to him and said, hey Brett, I don't like your tone very much, right? I think I did a battalion commander for like two weeks or less. Yeah. And it was kind of a shot across the bow of like, oh, okay. Um, you know, and that kind of right sized the conversation, uh, very quickly.

• 35:18Speaker 01

  But I, you know, I'd probably been thinking about it all the way back to then, you know, it was 2019. You know, all the way up until, you know, wrote the article, um, last fall. So, yeah. And if I could share one story. Yeah. About this, and this was an area that I, I was, I was very proud as a leader. I, I was really glad that I had the opportunity to do this, but the young man that I'm talking about,

• 35:49Speaker 01

  I was able to do this with him. We probably spent, we probably spent 30 or 40 minutes in his office. And laying this out and this is a guy who is extremely smart and very talented.

• 36:04Speaker 01

  And I attended his company training meeting, uh, which is, I did that very often in, in Brigade Command. And then afterwards I said, hey, let's go to your office. And we went to his office and had a little convers- to have a conversation. And I said, hey, excuse me.

• 36:22Speaker 01

  How do you think your relationship is with your boss right now?

• 36:27Speaker 01

  He kind of put his head down and he's like, sir, it's terrible.

• 36:33Speaker 01

  And I said, okay. Whose fault is that? And he's like, it's my fault. And I was like, okay, got it. Now let's get to work. And I, I started drawing out the tone range fan on his, on his whiteboard in his office. And we went through it in terms of how do you think you need to engage with your boss? Right? To have the impact that you want to have, not only for your company, which is a very, very good company, but also for your battalion and for the brigade. Right? And I laid that out. This was right before the Christmas holiday in, uh, in 2024.

• 37:19Speaker 01

  We come back, we go, uh, we come back from the holidays, we go right into the field, right into a big training density prior to another, uh, rotation, uh, to the National Training Center in the spring of 25. And, um, it was his boss, one of the battalion commanders came to me and he said, I just said, hey, how's it going, right? With, with this officer? He's like, sir, I don't know what you said to him, but I am working with a different human being now than I did for the first six months of command. He is, the, the tone is different.

• 37:58Speaker 01

  The way that he approaches problems is different. The way he's leading is completely different. And, and I, I don't take credit for that. That's on this officer, this young man who did an incredible job and incredible self-reflection on, like, I gotta change my ways. Like what I'm doing is I'm not leading myself well. I'm not leading my company well. I'm not being a good teammate. I'm not being a good subordinate. Absolutely flipped it, performed incredibly during the training density, incredible at the, you know, at the National Training Center, which is very, very hard, you know, you know, you did it, right, as a, as a lieutenant. Incredibly hard, you know, month, four or five weeks there in California,

• 38:42Speaker 01

  and crushed it. And he's still leading that company and doing a phenomenal job. Right? And it, the, the Tone Range fans really would have allowed us to have that conversation, him to visualize that, and then absolutely flip it to where, you know, he was, you know, his boss told me, he's like, sir, frankly, he is a joy to work with now. Right? And that, that transition happened over about two months, to where previously, he would have been like, you know, this guy is, he's a burr in the sock. You know what I mean? Like, this is not, you know, burr in the saddle kind of deal. Like, this is not enjoyable. So.

• 39:19Nick Bare?

  I feel like it, it is an un- undervalued skill.

• 39:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:23Nick Bare?

  And focus is, is tone.

• 39:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:27Nick Bare?

  Now, thinking back to some of the, the best leaders that I have worked with, worked under, worked alongside in, in the business world, but also during my time in the military, they had a, a, a very appropriate tone, given the circumstance. And we were talking about this earlier as well, but the best leaders that I worked under and learned from were very consistent.

• 39:56Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 39:57Nick Bare?

  Their tone was very consistent.

• 39:59Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 40:00Nick Bare?

  When they were trying to coach and mentor and develop, it was a very reassuring coaching tone.

• 40:08Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 40:08Nick Bare?

  It was calm, it was steady. They would use a more aggressive tone if needed.

• 40:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:15Nick Bare?

  And the message came across, it was loud and clear.

• 40:17Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 40:17Nick Bare?

  Like, hey, this is, this is serious.

• 40:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:20Nick Bare?

  But knowing when to apply the right tone to certain situations and circumstances, but being consistent when you use that tone.

• 40:28Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 40:29Nick Bare?

  I'm even thinking back to

• 40:32Nick Bare?

  Just being a leader in my household.

• 40:34Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 40:34Nick Bare?

  In my family.

• 40:35Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 40:36Nick Bare?

  With my kids.

• 40:37Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 40:37Nick Bare?

  Knowing when to apply the right tone.

• 40:40Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 40:41Nick Bare?

  So as my kids are developing, because they're young right now, as they're developing and learning, they know what the tone means. But if I'm inconsistent with my tone, my kids will not respond to a fluctuation in that tone because I'm inconsistent.

• 40:54Speaker 01

  That's right. And I will, I would just tell you for, for myself, that is an area that I'm working on, you know, the most, right, is, is leading my family at home and applying, you know, making sure that, that I'm consistent with what I've, what I wrote in that article and how the Tone Range Fan is laid out. When I engage, you know, with my wife, you know, with, with my son, with my daughter, uh, to make sure that it's, that it's consistent and that, and that it is focused on, on their development, right? And it does not become about, about me at all, right?

• 41:35Speaker 01

  It's about them and about the message that you're trying to communicate and a lesson, uh, or a principle that you're trying to teach them. And then also, you know, just with, with my wife, right? That it is, that everything is on, you know, equal footing, right? And that I'm always trying to have,

• 41:59Speaker 01

  excuse me, I've been married for, you know, this summer will be 23 years.

• 42:04Nick Bare?

  Congratulations.

• 42:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, thank you. And, um, she is such an incredible, incredible godly woman. And that as I communicate with her, with Tracy, that, that I'm always, that I've got my best tone, right? That I'm, you know, that I'm humble, that I'm deferential to her, you know, in, in how I'm engaging, uh, with her, right? As we progress, you know, to hopefully, you know, 24, 25, 26 years. Uh, cause those are the things that matter the most, you know, to your significant other.

• 42:38Nick Bare?

  I feel like I should get like my hand tattooed energy and tone.

• 42:42Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 42:43Nick Bare?

  Cause I know there's moments where it's earlier in the morning.

• 42:47Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 42:47Nick Bare?

  Kids wake up extra early.

• 42:51Nick Bare?

  You know, Steph and I use the wrong tone to each other. And we both look at each other like, let's not go there right now.

• 42:59Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 43:00Nick Bare?

  And that's the power of tone. You know, in this article, you describe the best tone, the coaching tone, the compassionate tone. And I highly recommend everyone who's listening to this episode, go read this article. But you say that humility is the cornerstone of our best tone.

• 43:19Speaker 01

  It is.

• 43:20Nick Bare?

  At what point in your career did you learn that? The power of humility?

• 43:28Speaker 01

  Early in my career. I've been very fortunate. I worked for a lot of, a lot of great leaders. And, but certainly as a, as a young, as a junior officer, you know, probably far too sarcastic, you know, thinking other people are way more screwed up than they actually are. Right? I'm sure you can relate to that. You know, most like platoon leaders think everyone else other than, you know, at the rifle platoon level stink, you know, or screwed up.

• 44:05Nick Bare?

  There was some ego and arrogance coming from a rifle platoon.

• 44:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, right. It's, and it's, you need some of that when it comes to, you know, like operating in combat. You, you need some of that confidence and a little bit of that arrogance. But I would say for me, you know, I went to, I went to First Ranger Battalion as a, as a, as a captain. I was a pretty young captain though. And I haven't talked about a lot that publicly, but I, I failed at First Ranger Battalion. And I did not do well there. And I think a lot of that was a lack of humility on my part. You know, I thought. That I had made it, that this was it. You know, these guys are lucky to have me.

• 44:52Speaker 01

  Um, and that did not translate well at all. Um, and certainly in a unbelievably high performing organization like, like any of the Ranger battalions or any of the other special operations units in our, in our military, that did not translate well. Um, and so much of that was on me. Um, and that's where I really started to learn and really started to see the value of humility, because as I looked around at other folks who were, uh, whether they were succeeding in that environment that I was in at the time at First Ranger Battalion, or, you know, as I progressed in the army,

• 45:36Speaker 01

  you're seeing folks that are, they're unbelievably successful, but they're super humble about their own success, about their achievements. Um, and as I went into my next assignment, I actually went to the Old Guard and served there as a company commander, um, and as an operations officer before I went to the staff college. And it was there that you start to really see the value of humility. Some of the folks that I had the opportunity to work for there, Dave Anders, Paul Edgar, work alongside Ed Mathitis, who's now going to be a general officer. Um, friend of mine, James Stoltz, who's also, you know, likely going to be a general officer.

• 46:20Speaker 01

  Um, these guys are unbelievably humble human beings about, you know, just their own personal capabilities, but then also kind of some of the things they've done in their career. And you really started to see that I did as the cornerstone for really high level leadership.

• 46:41Nick Bare?

  You know, comparing your experience with, say, Ranger Battalion and the Old Guard, and contrasting that to the traditional army.

• 46:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:55Nick Bare?

  I'm curious, just in the different leadership challenges, because as I look at units like Ranger Battalion and the Old Guard, like they are the best at what they do.

• 47:09Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 47:10Nick Bare?

  They do the basics very, very well.

• 47:12Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 47:13Nick Bare?

  They like to lock those down. And probably a lot of type A, alpha.

• 47:18Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 47:19Nick Bare?

  Mentalities, mindset, it's probably a lot of ego and arrogance. And you put a lot of people like that into one place.

• 47:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 47:26Nick Bare?

  You need really strong leadership. You know, it's like putting wild dogs in a room. It's like you need the alpha dog.

• 47:34Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 47:34Nick Bare?

  To control those dogs.

• 47:36Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 47:37Nick Bare?

  What was, what was that experience like compared to going back to, you know, a traditional line unit?

• 47:45Nick Bare?

  You know, obviously, leading and managing and developing people at the core fundamental level.

• 47:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 47:52Nick Bare?

  But just differences in personality and drive and ambition and achievement and success.

• 47:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, the, no, it's a great question, Nick. The, I would say, I'll talk a little bit about it from my perspective in, in the Old Guard, just, just because I spent a little more time there. A lot of the, a lot of the company commanders at the time had come off of, you know, they, at, at that point, some guys were, um, you know, a good friend of mine, Steve Wallace. Yeah, I think Steve, at that point, had done three full combat tours. Um, you know, maybe two to Afghanistan, one to Iraq at that point. Um, and so several of my other friends that were there that were company commanders, that were peers, that, you know, they were on their second, off their second or third

• 48:40Speaker 01

  combat tour, and they were coming to the Old Guard after that for, you know, both another leadership developmental opportunity. Um, but then also, you know, in the Old Guard, you're, most of the time, you're not going to deploy. I actually deployed from the Old Guard, which is a very interesting experience.

• 48:58Nick Bare?

  Yeah, reading that in your bio, it was the first time that unit deployed since Vietnam.

• 49:02Speaker 01

  Vietnam, yeah. Very interesting experience. Um, but to, just to talk about kind of those, those other alphas. I would say that's where we we really saw and one of the things I really experienced in the Orgard that that I loved was the teamwork amongst those other alphas. Those guys that were just, they're fantastic leaders in their own right. And that's where I think we saw, and I think other guys, you know, everyone saw that in each other. They saw that, hey, this guy's a great leader. You know, Anthony's a great leader. Andy's a great leader. You know, other folks that I worked with and how do we work together, right?

• 49:46Speaker 01

  For the betterment of the battalion, of the regiment, et cetera. That was a really neat thing to be a part of, to learn and grow from observing those other folks. But but not in a, you know, yes, everybody wants to have the best company, et cetera. But it was not in a, in a hyper competitive, you know, I'm gonna do whatever it takes to be better than you sort of deal. How do we work together and create some teamwork and camaraderie, right? Amongst amongst those folks that are all high level folks.

• 50:24Nick Bare?

  That's challenging to do.

• 50:26Speaker 01

  It's very, very challenging to do. And I would say that is where, in our case, a lot of really good peer leadership came into play. Where good dialogue amongst us, us peers, really helped carry the day. You know, as I remember back to my company commander days there. You know, really good peer dialogue about, okay, you guys are doing this, you know, what about that? We'd like to do this. And just that, just really, really good teamwork in in the genuine interest of everybody succeeding, not, I need to be better than you.

• 51:07Nick Bare?

  Yeah. I'm currently, kind of currently working through that here in VPN.

• 51:13Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 51:17Nick Bare?

  Right now, I would say our branding creative team is at its peak in terms of

• 51:25Nick Bare?

  being effective and functional and working together, being a true team.

• 51:32Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 51:33Nick Bare?

  But it took a lot of

• 51:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:35Nick Bare?

  time and intention to get there.

• 51:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:37Nick Bare?

  One of the things I've learned over time, I mean, you look at sports teams.

• 51:41Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 51:41Nick Bare?

  You can put the, the best players

• 51:45Nick Bare?

  in, in, in their position on a team, but if they don't work as a team.

• 51:49Speaker 01

  A hundred percent.

• 51:50Nick Bare?

  The team loses.

• 51:51Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 51:51Nick Bare?

  And it sounds so fundamental and easy, but it's not.

• 51:56Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 51:57Nick Bare?

  It is very challenging.

• 51:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:59Nick Bare?

  Our branding creative team, we have, in my opinion, the best of the best. Designers, videographers, filmmakers, editors, directors.

• 52:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:11Nick Bare?

  And we thought just by putting all of the best into a room, we would then have the greatest output and teamwork and camaraderie. But one ends up naturally happening is, you know, someone thinks they're pulling more weight. Someone wants to be better than the other. Someone thinks that they're pulling the others ahead or behind. And that's naturally gonna happen.

• 52:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:33Nick Bare?

  So coming in and really like developing subordinate leaders, seeing peer leadership step up.

• 52:39Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 52:41Nick Bare?

  Brotherhood, sisterhood.

• 52:42Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 52:43Nick Bare?

  Helping each other and really realizing that

• 52:48Nick Bare?

  the only way this business succeeds and the brand team wins and grows is together.

• 52:55Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 52:55Nick Bare?

  There is not one person who's gonna pull all of the weight. And that concept for me a few years ago was so easy and simple. But I've learned that like people management and development and team building, it's challenging and it's not passive. It is active development.

• 53:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, absolutely. And you're right. It is really, really challenging, especially when.

• 53:23Speaker 01

  If if we're doing something and maybe working on it together or whatever, but I want the credit for it.

• 53:31Nick Bare?

  Yep.

• 53:31Speaker 01

  Right? I want the credit for it. And, you know, I I've done that before, like a hundred percent. Like I've, you know, you're doing something and it's like, I I want the credit for this. Like, this is a great idea. This is a great whatever, you know, especially younger as a as a junior officer. Um, even as a young major. And you start to realize like, boy, that's not, that's not productive. That's not helpful at all. I I had the opportunity to go as as a young major, excuse me, to attend the School of Advanced Military Studies at at Fort Leavenworth. And, um, you know, one of the big things that

• 54:10Speaker 01

  that the school still teaches young majors is, you know, you want to be more than you seem, um, remain in the background, right? And it doesn't matter who gets the credit, right? Whether it's Nick that gets the credit, whether it's Ed that gets the credit, it doesn't matter. And I think eventually most leaders, especially most leaders that, you know, perceptive leaders, they know who's behind, you know, an initiative, a project or whatever, right? But I think, and and I've observed several folks through my time in the army that

• 54:53Speaker 01

  they don't care who gets the credit and they're just, you know, but you, but the folks that are there, they know, even if someone else is getting recognition, they know, hey, that was Nick's idea, right?

• 55:06Nick Bare?

  Right.

• 55:07Speaker 01

  Nick was behind that initiative and so much credit's got to go to him for for that, right? And that's where I think it takes perceptive, self-aware bosses, leaders to recognize that and folks um, that that are beneath them. And sometimes

• 55:25Speaker 01

  That might not be right away. And that's frustrating to folks. Sometimes it might take some time to say, I really thought that was, I thought that was Nick, but you know, making someone up, right? Actually, Bill did like a lot of work on that project and that's incredible. You know, I want to make sure I go recognize, you know, recognize Bill. But I think that's up to, to leaders, to folks that are in, you know, CEO type positions, you know, command positions to recognize that who's actually driving things down at the lower levels.

• 55:57Nick Bare?

  Yeah. I've also found that when, when culture is really strong within a unit, uh, culture will police itself. Now, if you have someone who is stepping on a line.

• 56:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 56:10Nick Bare?

  Who is being ego driven and arrogant.

• 56:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 56:13Nick Bare?

  Sometimes the leader doesn't even have to step in.

• 56:16Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 56:16Nick Bare?

  The organization will pull that guy or girl aside and say.

• 56:19Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 56:20Nick Bare?

  Hey, hey, that don't work here.

• 56:22Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 56:23Nick Bare?

  I love seeing that.

• 56:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 56:24Nick Bare?

  That's strong.

• 56:25Speaker 01

  There, I'll give you a great example. As a young lieutenant, um, there was, we were out doing some training. We were getting ready to go to Afghanistan. And I had said something to, and, and I, you know, it was not, um, it was, it's a, it now it's a really funny story. When I was a 24 year old, you know, 23 year old lieutenant getting ready to go to Afghanistan. It wasn't very funny. Um, but you know, the kind of the story got out that like, I was telling our first sergeant, how to do training. And our first sergeant, this guy named First Sergeant Mike Sunshine, absolute legend. Won the best ranger competition as a young sergeant.

• 57:10Speaker 01

  I mean, guy was just an app, just absolute stud, somebody you just like, at me as a young lieutenant, looked up to this guy, um, as like, this is what a senior not commissioned officer, you know, needs to be jumped into Panama, right? Just total stud. And, um, it was, it was one of those things that, you know, tell, gave him a telephone. By the time, you know, what's the, the old adage, the, you know, the lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to put its pants on.

• 57:39Nick Bare?

  Yeah.

• 57:39Speaker 01

  One of those types of situations. And I was like, wait, what are people saying? But anyway.

• 57:46Speaker 01

  It was that I was trying to tell the first sergeant how to do training. We were doing some live fires, but the lieutenants in the, in the company, my peers came to my office and they're like, hey, it was kind of, you gotta watch your tone with, with the first sergeant. And I, you know, as a young officer, I was like, number one, good on those guys that they came to me and they're like, hey, you know, watch it a little bit there, you know, young buck, you're brand new in the company. And I was like, okay, whatever I said didn't land the right way, wrong tone, wrong timing, whatever. Um, so I need to be reflective of that and adjust moving

• 58:27Speaker 01

  forward. So, but it was a hundred percent like my peers came to me and they're like, no, no, no, no, like this isn't going to fly in, in Apache company first to follow first.

• 58:38Nick Bare?

  Yeah, that's great.

• 58:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's good.

• 58:41Nick Bare?

  I was just thinking of this story. This actually happened a few months ago. It was good to show that, you know, you constantly have to, uh, be aware of your tone and you're still going to make mistakes.

• 58:55Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 58:55Nick Bare?

  No matter how long you're doing it. We were on this call a few months ago and, uh, I presented a business strategy and some initiatives to the group before they were vetted and before we really refined them.

• 59:12Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 59:12Nick Bare?

  I shared them prematurely.

• 59:14Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 59:15Nick Bare?

  And one of our advisors was on the call with me and after the call was over, he asked me to, you know, hop on a separate call. Let's just catch up real quick. And he kind of let me know like, hey, we need to talk about these things before we share this to the larger group because that was premature and those weren't vetted and we didn't lock those in yet.

• 59:36Nick Bare?

  And I was offended.

• 59:38Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 59:39Nick Bare?

  As the founder and CEO of VPN. And I said with a tone loud and clear, loud and clear, got it. And I I knew as soon as I said that, I was like, mm, that wasn't right. That wasn't right.

• 59:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 59:55Nick Bare?

  Cause that conveyed the message from me to him. I don't care.

• 1:00:00Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:00:01Nick Bare?

  I don't care what you're saying.

• 1:00:02Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 1:00:03Nick Bare?

  Moments later, as I just reflected briefly, I realized I was in the wrong. I shared that information prematurely. I knew I was wrong.

• 1:00:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:00:12Nick Bare?

  I was defensive because I was called out for my mistakes.

• 1:00:16Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 1:00:18Nick Bare?

  And no matter how much time, experience, uh, how many times we've done it, we're still gonna be offended because it doesn't feel good to be wrong.

• 1:00:28Speaker 01

  That's right. A hundred percent. And that and that's where even, you know, and that and it's in the article, right? That's, you know, in in your case, right? And I don't know if you had the opportunity to follow back up with with your advisor, you know, the guy who called you. That's the virtuous cycle, right? That's where that comes into play, like whether you're a whether you're a subordinate, whether you're the lead or you're the leader, like, ah, that tone stunk.

• 1:00:58Nick Bare?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:00:59Speaker 01

  And that did not land the way I just had to, I just did this with Tracy, you know, last week about a conversation we had. And something that I said that I did not mean to land poorly, landed very poorly for her. And, you know, I, you know, I had to, some of it was my tone. Um, and then some of it was choice of words, like I had to walk that back. And then, you know, it was okay. She forgave me, you know, move on, all good. Um, but how often does that happen in the business world, in the military, where that loop doesn't get closed, right? And we, you say something or you do something as a leader or as a subordinate, and then it's never followed up on. There's no like.

• 1:01:43Speaker 01

  Shoot, my tone stunk. I really just need to go, you know, and I think it's really powerful for a subordinate to say, hey, sir, hey, ma'am, like, I was a little off on that. Apologies, you know, I didn't have my best tone. Um, I will in the future, you know,

• 1:02:00Nick Bare?

  There's a lot of respect there.

• 1:02:02Speaker 01

  There's a lot of respect there. And I think if, you know, as I know, folks have done that with me, hey, sir, you know, I don't think what I said landed okay. And sometimes it might be overblown on a subordinate's part. You as a leader might say like, hey, no, we're good. Like, I didn't take anything from that. Like, you were just expressing yourself, you know, a lot of, a lot of opinions, a lot of ideas were getting thrown around, like, like, we're good. And then like, oh, okay, good. Like, the boss, boss lady, boss man is, is good with, with what went down. Um, and I think that can also create trust, right? That builds trust, that builds cohesion. Like, hey, even if there's an interaction that's not great, we still can then circle back on that, right? That's what the virtuous

• 1:02:47Speaker 01

  cycle is in there for. Like, we can still circle back and say, hey, and you can even, you can do it as the leader. Hey, you provided this, this feedback in, in the meeting, like,

• 1:03:00Speaker 01

  that wasn't great. You know, that landed poorly with a lot of your teammates, a lot of your peers, et cetera, like, you know, and then you can, here's why. Ah, all right. You know, that's how you're developing folks to, to continue to be better, to continue to improve, uh, as, as a leader.

• 1:03:17Nick Bare?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:18Speaker 01

  Through the coaching, through the counseling, in those instances, or through compassion on, on the other side of it, you know, if, if something happens in, in someone's life, with work life, personal life, uh, et cetera.

• 1:03:30Nick Bare?

  I think sometimes it's hard to, I'm just thinking, I'm thinking on my personal experience, it's hard to correct tone because it feels like they didn't really do anything wrong. Or, you know, like, someone says something with a tone, and you want to correct it, they didn't really say anything wrong, it's how they said it.

• 1:03:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:03:54Nick Bare?

  So it's like, I don't know if I can correct it, but I think it should be addressed.

• 1:03:59Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:03:59Nick Bare?

  Like this, this is the way I perceived what you said based off your tone.

• 1:04:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:04:04Nick Bare?

  Is this what you meant? And if so, let's have a further conversation.

• 1:04:09Nick Bare?

  Because both energy and tone, they leave deposits.

• 1:04:13Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 1:04:14Nick Bare?

  And the more positive, the more better, the more negative, the worse. But you, you keep depositing in one or the other.

• 1:04:21Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 1:04:21Nick Bare?

  Over time, that builds trust or distrust.

• 1:04:26Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 1:04:28Nick Bare?

  Anger or joy.

• 1:04:30Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:04:31Nick Bare?

  Uh, resentment.

• 1:04:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:04:32Nick Bare?

  All of those feelings kind of like they build, they compound.

• 1:04:35Speaker 01

  Yep. And also, and then hopefully what it builds too, right, is, is folks have the ability to say, like, again, even in the moment, it gets a little heated. You know, are you creating an environment as a leader where folks can circle back with one another and be like, ah, hey, we were, you know, it got a little heated, you know? My, my apologies, you know, and then other person, maybe they got heated too. Hey, my bad too. Like we're good. And then they, we can find some common ground on things we agree on or, or whatever it is.

• 1:05:05Nick Bare?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:05Speaker 01

  Um, and I think that's just important as, as a professional in, in the military. Cause you're doing things you're passionate about, you know, um, you know, training for combat, training, potentially preparing for war. Developing leaders, et cetera, or in, in the business world. But having that and setting that, that tone, that environment as a leader where, hey, sometimes it might get like, we're passionate about the stuff that we do. So sometimes maybe that's going to come across in a, in a tone that's not perfect. But we gotta have a little bit of grace, right? As teammates and as leaders. And then as long as there's, I think the appropriate self-assessment and reflection of like.

• 1:05:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, I didn't, I didn't do that the best, you know, or, or the leader giving the feedback or the subordinate coming up. I think that is really, really important and helps build the right environment where, hey, we're all mission focused on whatever that is, building the best supplement company in the world, building the best brigade in the army, building the best battalion in the army, whatever that is that you're trying to do. Those things, then that, then that becomes the focus, not, not, you know, any sort of animosity or any sort of personal rivalry that can develop, you know, between folks.

• 1:06:24Nick Bare?

  Yeah, passion. Passion can definitely influence tone.

• 1:06:30Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:06:31Nick Bare?

  But I don't think it can be an excuse for.

• 1:06:33Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 1:06:34Nick Bare?

  So I, I'm a passionate person, a lot of things, and my tone will be influenced by that passion.

• 1:06:41Speaker 01

  Yes, that's right.

• 1:06:42Nick Bare?

  So I want to go back a little bit. You graduated and commissioned as an infantry officer in 2012.

• 1:06:49Speaker 01

  Two.

• 1:06:49Nick Bare?

  Sorry, sorry, 2002.

• 1:06:50Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:06:51Nick Bare?

  2002. How soon after commissioning in 2002, did you go to Afghanistan?

• 1:07:02Speaker 01

  Uh, it was just over a year later. So did the, um, was actually a Gold Bar recruiter, you know, for the, for the RTC folks.

• 1:07:12Nick Bare?

  I was, I was a Gold Bar recruiter.

• 1:07:13Speaker 01

  There you go. Yeah. Pretty good gig.

• 1:07:15Nick Bare?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:16Speaker 01

  And that's where I met my, where I met my wife, Tracy, who was working at North Dakota State University at the time. And then went and did the, you know, obligatory nine, 10 months at Fort Benning, the basic course in Ranger School. And then by October, so commissioned in May of 02, by October of 03, we were in Afghanistan. So, yeah, with my battalion.

• 1:07:43Nick Bare?

  What was that deployment like? What, what was the?

• 1:07:49Nick Bare?

  Environment in Afghanistan like at that time.

• 1:07:52Speaker 01

  There was the environment Afghanistan at the time was it was not it it was not like it became in oh six oh seven oh eight um where it was really really kinetic. Uh my battalion was unbelievably fortunate. We actually didn't we had some folks that were very seriously wounded on that deployment, but we did not lose anybody on that deployment. But a tremendous amount of resources at the time, early oh three had went into Iraq. Uh and so Afghanistan was a little bit more of an economy of force theater. Uh and for a while in especially in eastern Afghanistan, our battalion, first of the five

• 1:08:35Speaker 01

  oh first, uh we were we were kind of one of the very few shows in town. So we were extremely busy um doing a lot of missions in eastern Afghanistan um in, you know, late oh three, you know, early and we we stayed there till we left in the summer, you know, August of oh four, so we were there about 10 months. Um but we were extremely busy uh for that whole time uh operating in Afghanistan. Uh and a lot of that was, you know, when you look back now and and read things about what happened in Afghanistan, that was a little bit of a lull period in terms of what

• 1:09:14Speaker 01

  the Taliban were doing and other folks were doing because they, you know, obviously everyone's familiar with kind of the bombing campaign and, you know, in late oh one and oh two, we were going after uh bin Laden. Um but then after that, things kind of settled down in in Afghanistan as the as the Taliban kind of retreated a little bit as our presence ticked up. But then there was a tremendous amount of focus on on Iraq. And so that was a, for me as a young leader, a tremendous environment to learn in. My platoon sergeant, a guy by the name of Mike Parrish, who I've talked about a lot,

• 1:09:54Speaker 01

  um was unbelievably formative in my development as a young leader, uh because Mike was that guy and we have a friendship that still lasts to today. Was a guy that came alongside me and really helped coach and teach me as a young officer in terms of how to lead effectively at the platoon level, you know, in the infantry. And then also kind of give me the confidence that I needed as a young officer that, yeah, hey, sir, good decision here, but we got to work on this, you know, we got to work on delivery for this, we got to work on, you know, you can't rush to the objective before I have

• 1:10:39Speaker 01

  security set up, you know, stuff like that. And so that environment for me as a young officer and the leaders that I had, Tony Gibbs, company commander, he's a general officer now, Harry Glenn, my battalion commander, was fantastic, Val Kevney, the battalion S3 was fantastic, he was later my battalion commander in third of the 509th. Around so many good leaders and so that was a great deployment for just learning and growth in an environment that, you know, it was tough, it was combat, but we didn't, we didn't lose anybody.

• 1:11:20Speaker 01

  And the environment was not, you know, we talk about Iraq 0607, very, very, very much different environment on that deployment, yeah.

• 1:11:32Nick Bare?

  Yeah, my, my cousin, Matt, he was with the 101st in 0607.

• 1:11:38Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:11:39Nick Bare?

  So I was watching him come back home and going back overseas on multiple deployments during that time. And obviously very kinetic then.

• 1:11:50Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:11:50Nick Bare?

  And I watched him transform into this man. And that's actually what influenced me to want to join the military.

• 1:11:57Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:11:58Nick Bare?

  I watched him go from this boy to this man.

• 1:12:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:12:03Nick Bare?

  And, you know, coming home on R and R and I was like, I want that in my life.

• 1:12:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:12:09Nick Bare?

  I, I want to, I want to grow and be challenged and change like that.

• 1:12:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:12:15Nick Bare?

  I'm curious, you know, being in college, ROTC,

• 1:12:23Nick Bare?

  how did your perception of what a leader was before commissioning change based off of your early experience being in combat with a platoon? What did you think leadership was? And then what did you actually learn leadership was?

• 1:12:45Speaker 01

  I learned so much in that, in my role as a, as a platoon, I was a platoon leader for that platoon, first platoon Apache Company, first of 501st for, I don't know, 18, 19 months, I think is how long I led that platoon. But one of the things that I really learned in that platoon, and I had some fantastic, Mike Paris was a fantastic platoon sergeant. I had some really good squad leaders too. And one of the things that I had never really, we don't really talk a lot about in ROTC,

• 1:13:19Speaker 01

  was the ability to, look, you're the platoon leader, you're still in charge, right? It's not a committee. But that doesn't mean that you can't take input and feedback from your non-commissioned officers on how we're going to go about things. And that was an area of leadership that I think as a platoon leader that I really grew in, in terms of when to say, hey, this is what we're doing, even if it's unpopular. But then also those times when, hey, you know, hey, Joe Hancock, you know, Keith Hira,

• 1:14:00Speaker 01

  Mike Kinsley, what are your ideas about how we should go about whether it's attacking this objective, setting in this small kill team, whatever it is? Give me your feedback, right? At the end of the day, it's going to be my plan approved by my company commander. But I wanted their feedback and, you know, it was important to get their feedback, you know, as more technical experts, as NCOs.

• 1:14:26Speaker 01

  And so that was an area of leadership that as a young officer, I think I really grew in that really wasn't, you know, we didn't focus on, there was certain, there's peer leadership in in RTC, but not as much of the like, hey, there's going to be times when you you need feedback from your non-commissioned officers. And you and you got to listen to them because it can't always be just top down delivered guidance for everything.

• 1:14:56Nick Bare?

  Yeah, that's good. You got to own the plan, you have to own the outcome, whether a success or failure.

• 1:15:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:15:02Nick Bare?

  But there's nothing that says you can't collaborate on the strategy.

• 1:15:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:15:06Nick Bare?

  How you get there.

• 1:15:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:15:08Nick Bare?

  I actually, as you as you were sharing that, I used to do the same thing as a platoon leader, and then I started doing the same thing when it was, you know, scaling and building BPN.

• 1:15:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:15:19Nick Bare?

  I thought I had to go off into the corner and build out the whole plan and then present this beautiful plan and strategy, and then everyone goes and executes. And then what I started finding is I was stepping on people's toes, trying to do their job for them, when they have a different perspective.

• 1:15:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:15:39Nick Bare?

  They have different ideas to bring to the table.

• 1:15:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:15:42Nick Bare?

  And it's so much more effective if we collaborate on the plan and the strategy. By the end of the day, I have to own whether it succeeds or fails.

• 1:15:51Speaker 01

  That's right, absolutely. We're we're doing, I'll just give you an example right now. So my command now, you know, third security forces brigade, we're, I'm training and preparing some folks for an upcoming deployment, and it's a pretty unique mission in the Middle East. It's a mission that that I've never done, and it's really unique. And so we're going through a mission rehearsal exercise next week, and we're going to do a rehearsal on Monday afternoon. And I invited all my battalion commanders to come.

• 1:16:25Speaker 01

  And I say, you, you don't have to come, but you're welcome to come. I was like, I, we've got a framework of a plan. You know, what guy I used to work for, he told me, you know, we got a might work plan here. So we got a might work plan, but I've never prepared for anything like this. And so we're going to step through what we have planned. But I, you know, these are battalion commanders, these are folks with 20 plus years, you know, in the army, super successful, talented folks. I'm happy to get your feedback to refine this and make it better because like, yep, ultimately it's going to be my mission rehearsal exercise and my plan. But I want your feedback because I've never done anything like this.

• 1:17:05Speaker 01

  And so if you have a different perspective on how we can best prepare our advisors to, to go overseas, I'm all for it.

• 1:17:15Nick Bare?

  What, what, do you guys do that during the work day?

• 1:17:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 1:17:19Nick Bare?

  Yeah, I'm, I'm just thinking through some stuff right now and what, how I can compare my time in the military to building a business.

• 1:17:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:17:30Nick Bare?

  And I've said this before, but what was so unique about the military, I'm sure you can, you know, add some coloring in context onto this. You're learning to lead people.

• 1:17:45Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:17:46Nick Bare?

  And those people, as individuals are not influenced by money, salary, power, bonuses. I mean, they know whether they work 20 hours a week or a hundred hours a week. They're getting pretty much the same pay.

• 1:18:03Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 1:18:05Nick Bare?

  And when you compare that to the, the workplace in America or the world, it is not that way.

• 1:18:10Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 1:18:11Nick Bare?

  It's okay, I'm working overtime. How much more am I making?

• 1:18:15Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 1:18:16Nick Bare?

  What am I getting? It's transactional.

• 1:18:20Nick Bare?

  And that's what's so powerful about our military is people are there for a mission.

• 1:18:24Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 1:18:25Nick Bare?

  Selfless.

• 1:18:25Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:18:27Nick Bare?

  Dedicated and committing their time, their resources, sacrificing a lot.

• 1:18:31Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 1:18:32Nick Bare?

  For this country. It's absolutely amazing. And you don't see that anywhere else but our military, really?

• 1:18:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:18:38Nick Bare?

  And as I'm just thinking about like these rehearsals and asking more people to do more stuff and

• 1:18:46Nick Bare?

  it's because they actually care.

• 1:18:47Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 1:18:48Nick Bare?

  And they care about the mission and the success and they want to see a win.

• 1:18:52Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:18:55Nick Bare?

  That was very unique for me about my time in the military.

• 1:18:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:18:59Nick Bare?

  And I'm not gonna like, I'm very fortunate and grateful. I have a great team.

• 1:19:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:19:03Nick Bare?

  This team here will work

• 1:19:07Nick Bare?

  whenever, on whatever, wherever.

• 1:19:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:19:10Nick Bare?

  There's never a complaint. So I'm not comparing this to BPN, but I know out there in the world, it is not like that.

• 1:19:19Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 1:19:21Nick Bare?

  And that's what makes the military and the culture there and the people and the leadership such a unique experience.

• 1:19:26Speaker 01

  It's, I mean, the stories that, you know, anyone who was in the military, certainly anyone who's in the army, the stories that you have about the dedication of folks, probably at times even unhealthy.

• 1:19:43Speaker 01

  In Gray Wolf, I always made it a point to recognize all of our maintainers, all of our mechanics, you know, twice. Both times before we went to the National Training Center, we did a brigade level formation and awarded all of our maintainers, every single one of them, right, who was in good standing with the army, an award. Because that is how important their work was to the brigade. It's an armored brigade, right? Hundreds of vehicles, right? Tanks, Bradleys, Paladins, right?

• 1:20:19Speaker 01

  And if those guys and gals aren't firing on all cylinders, like, we're not going anywhere. And the dedication of some of these mechanics, right, that are, I mean, after the National Training Center, you go through something that's called regeneration operations. And you do it there, you know, and you have maintenance bays and stuff like that, if you recall that from your time.

• 1:20:44Speaker 01

  Just go out there, five, six o'clock in the morning, you're gonna find mechanics that slept on a tank. You're gonna find mechanics that slept on a Bradley and they're not getting paid any extra. They're just that dedicated and they worked until they absolutely couldn't anymore. They gotta crash out and they're gonna get up and they're just gonna start again. And that level of dedication to me was always, is and always has been so awe inspiring, you know, in, in the army, uh, that, you know, sometimes when you reflect on that, you, you're just floored. Yeah. Cause that's not happening at your local Firestone. You know what I mean?

• 1:21:29Speaker 01

  It's not, you know, well, I gotta just sleep on Bill's car here to get it up for tomorrow. Cause Bill's gotta go to work at eight AM. It's like, no, we're gonna close at six and, you know, I'll get to Bill's car tomorrow, you know, after I've, you know, had coffee and had a staff meeting and whatever. Um, and, and that's fine. That's a different world. Um, but the level of dedication and the, and the level of commitment from our, you know, from our soldiers, sailors, airmen, marine is, Marines is, is incredible. And if I could just share one thing, there was, um, I gave, let me see. I was a brand new young Colonel and we were doing something called Project Convergence. Uh, it was part of, uh, what Army Futures Command does.

• 1:22:14Speaker 01

  It's where you get a lot of technology initiatives and emerging technology. And you test it, you know, in, in a training ground. In this case, it was the National Training Center. And I was there as a young Colonel working in the Army Futures Command, which is, is now, um, Training and Transformation Command, a new command. And I was checking out in the PX. I was just, I think, buying lunch and there's a young soldier behind me and he's like, hey, hey, sir. Um, you know, clearly he was, I think, leaning towards getting out of the army or something. You know, you've been doing this, obviously, for a long

• 1:22:54Speaker 01

  time. What is the motivation? What keeps you going? You know, 20 plus years in the army? And I paused for just a couple of seconds and I said, and I don't remember the young man's name, but I said, hey, you know what for me it is? It is the ability for officers, non-commissioned officers, warrant officers, civilians, soldiers, all to come together and complete a mission, right? That is what is so powerful about our army and, and our military. The ability to always, wherever you go, right? Hey, we got to build the team. We have got to build the team. One

• 1:23:39Speaker 01

  person, one NCO, one officer, you know, one civilian, isn't going to do it for everybody. We have to build the team. How do we do that effectively and then go about accomplishing our mission? That is what has always, for me, been so, so, so powerful, um, and, and rewarding about, you know, for me specifically being an officer in the army.

• 1:24:02Nick Bare?

  Yeah, it's just a unique and different experience that, to be honest, I miss.

• 1:24:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:24:12Nick Bare?

  Uh, and I tell this to Steph all the time, but I wish so badly that, and hope that my kids get to have the same experience.

• 1:24:22Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:24:23Nick Bare?

  Because it was really powerful for me.

• 1:24:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:24:25Nick Bare?

  And I learned a lot. I learned a lot about myself.

• 1:24:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:24:28Nick Bare?

  I learned a lot about other people.

• 1:24:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:24:31Nick Bare?

  Um, I learned what it means to...

• 1:24:37Nick Bare?

  Truly be selfless.

• 1:24:39Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:24:40Nick Bare?

  And be working towards a greater cause, a greater mission. And to make yourself feel small and little.

• 1:24:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:24:49Nick Bare?

  And that's been a valuable learning lesson. That I think we need to apply to our entire lives.

• 1:24:56Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:24:56Nick Bare?

  Make ourselves smaller.

• 1:24:58Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:24:58Nick Bare?

  For a much greater purpose.

• 1:25:00Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 1:25:01Nick Bare?

  It's really easy to inflate ourselves and make ourselves look and feel and want to be bigger.

• 1:25:06Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 1:25:06Nick Bare?

  Because how do we make ourselves smaller?

• 1:25:09Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 1:25:09Nick Bare?

  Going back to, you know, what you shared with the tone of humility.

• 1:25:15Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:25:15Nick Bare?

  Pride is our greatest enemy.

• 1:25:17Speaker 01

  Oh, yes.

• 1:25:18Nick Bare?

  Humility is our greatest friend.

• 1:25:19Speaker 01

  Yes, absolutely.

• 1:25:22Nick Bare?

  I'm curious.

• 1:25:25Nick Bare?

  You know, compared to the deployment in two thousand and two in Afghanistan.

• 1:25:31Nick Bare?

  Was there a deployment after that that was more kinetic that uh really challenged you in terms of your leadership abilities and skill?

• 1:25:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, um, oh, six, oh, seven, Iraq. Uh, commanded Able Company, third of the five oh ninth. As a part of uh fourth Brigade, twenty fifth with airborne Brigade, which had just stood up at Fort Richardson, Alaska. So I was very fortunate. I was a lieutenant in first of the five oh first. Um, which became the base of fourth Brigade, twenty fifth uh twenty fifth Infantry Division. That Brigade, now it is, it's different. It's, it's a second Brigade, eleventh Airborne Division now. Um, but for a long time it was four, two, five. And I had the, I was really, really fortunate, had the opportunity to go to the career course, right? Which is one of our education development courses for young officers.

• 1:26:26Speaker 01

  Do that, attend US Army Jump Master School as well because it's airborne unit. And then, and then go back to Alaska, to Anchorage. And um, and so had the opportunity to command as a young officer. Uh, and I'd been in the Army for just over three years when I took command of, of ACO three five oh nine. Uh, and with, with so many, so many incredible young people in that, in that company. Uh, folks that I still keep in touch with today and. Moved through, trained for a year and then deployed in the fall of oh six to Iraq.

• 1:27:08Speaker 01

  And then I made it until New Year's Eve of two thousand and six, I was wounded. Lead my company in combat. We had just gone out to Western Iraq. We were south of Baghdad and we had just gone out to Western Iraq. And I was shot by a sniper, talking to some folks. Actually killed a young man that I was talking to. The bullet went through him and hit my arm. So I left theater in early, early oh seven. But we had already lost three soldiers in Able Company.

• 1:27:51Speaker 01

  Staff Sergeant Lane, Corporal Gifford, and Corporal Donica, Dustin Donica. We'd already lost them before I was wounded. And then we would lose five, we lost five more soldiers after that. And I transitioned from the role of, and then I think for our battalion total, I think 359th, we lost eighteen or nineteen soldiers total in that deployment. So not, it wasn't the worst of all the folks that had gone over there during this time, during the surge. But it was more than many.

• 1:28:29Speaker 01

  And I went from a role as a young officer who, you know, deployed over there at twenty-six years old, so twenty-six, twenty-seven years old, leading young men in combat. Excuse me, during an extremely dangerous time in Iraq, where folks, the insurgents are actively trying to kill you every day, whether it was IEDs, snipers, direct attacks, didn't matter. People were trying to kill you. And I went from a role of being in that every single day for those, you know, three plus months I was there as a company commander. And transitioned back home to Fort Richardson where I was wounded, had multiple surgeries.

• 1:29:15Speaker 01

  But then now had to memorialize the men that we'd lost as a young man. So I'm still

• 1:29:26Speaker 01

  processing, you know, my own grief. And frankly, I'm angry. You know, I'm 26 years old. I trained with that company, built that company from the ground up. And now I'm wounded and I had to leave theater to the point of I didn't want to leave theater. I wanted to just, hey, I'll stay and heal and then put me back in the game, coach. And when my commander called me, it was the end of January, Val Kevney told me, hey, I'm gonna leave you home to lead the rear detachment team. I put the phone down and I cried. I mean, like crying my eyes out. I was so

• 1:30:07Speaker 01

  mad that I couldn't go back to combat with the team that we had built in third of the 509.

• 1:30:16Speaker 01

  And then found myself over the next five or six months, especially of hard combat,

• 1:30:26Speaker 01

  giving memorial speeches for soldiers in my company that had passed away and then soldiers from our battalion that died. And we're having almost monthly memorial ceremonies at Fort Richardson for these soldiers who have passed away, having to deliver casualty notifications to spouses whose husbands have died in Iraq at 26, 27 years old. Makes you grow up really, really fast. And so, yeah, that next deployment that I went on, very, very challenging.

• 1:31:07Speaker 01

  And for me, was a hard time in my life there for that year, year plus of losing soldiers that you knew, that you knew intimately, had trained with. But then also having to go back home and memorialize them was extremely difficult and challenging. And I would often feel really bad because

• 1:31:36Speaker 01

  It was hard to get through a speech in the chapel at Fort Richardson without, you know, tearing up and welling up it almost to the point of blubbering, crying.

• 1:31:49Speaker 01

  But those are the emotions that I felt at, at the time, right? You know, that's how hard those things hit when those young, young men, you know, gave their life in service of our country on the mission in Iraq. And so, yeah, that was, that was a very, very challenging time. Tracy was, you know, by my side the whole time, supported me, was incredible. But it was still, you know, it was a very, very hard time.

• 1:32:18Nick Bare?

  Yeah, I can imagine.

• 1:32:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:32:21Nick Bare?

  Were you able to, in that moment or shortly after,

• 1:32:28Nick Bare?

  be able to reflect?

• 1:32:32Nick Bare?

  And maybe think there's something to learn here that I can apply to this next chapter to be a better, stronger, more effective leader? Like, maybe, maybe I'm, I'm being taught something right here? Or was a lot of anger just coming out of it?

• 1:32:50Speaker 01

  There was some, there was some just, at the time, I mean, just straight up raw anger.

• 1:33:01Speaker 01

  That, because, you know, at the time, and I know that, you know, your faith journey, Nick, and, and where you are now. And I grew up in a Christian home, had tremendous parents.

• 1:33:16Speaker 01

  And, but there were times where I was a little bit, you know,

• 1:33:24Speaker 01

  not angry with God, but you're like, hey, why? What is going on with all of this? Why is this happening? Why is this happening to me?

• 1:33:36Speaker 01

  Et cetera. Now, I, I very, I kind of came off that pretty quickly and adapted to my role as a leader for my battalion back at Fort Richardson.

• 1:33:49Speaker 01

  And I understood why my boss did it because one of the things that I had that some of the other folks on the rear detachment in the brigade, and some of those folks had, they'd been to combat, they just hadn't been to combat with our brigade.

• 1:34:04Nick Bare?

  Right.

• 1:34:05Speaker 01

  I had the benefit of the doubt when it came to just trust and I could, you know, my, my boss Val Kevney, who's a tremendous leader, um, gave me full autonomy with the rear detachment. I didn't have to ask questions about extending people on leave, doing anything. He trusted me to make the right decisions because I had led for him both in the rear and in combat, and he trusted me to make the right decision. And that wasn't necessarily the case for a lot of my peers. And so I understood why my boss made the decision he made because then he didn't have to worry about what was going on at Fort Richardson, right? And to work with his, you know, his wife, you know, Kim is tremendous, like

• 1:34:47Speaker 01

  one of the greatest humans on the planet. Um, to work with her and, and help, you know, set conditions. And at the time, you know, my wife was working for Army Community Service. Um, so to kind of be of service and, and help folks understand what's going on in theater, uh, and then also be of service to my, you know, the battalion forward and what I could do for them and my peers with, you know, property accountability and all the kind of minutia that comes with Army leadership. Um, I, I settled into that role and adapted to it and, and did well with it. But initially it was hard, right? Cause at the time, you know, you're hard charging, you've trained, you want to be over there, want to be in,

• 1:35:32Speaker 01

  in the fight. And to ask, to kind of take that forward, and I'm sorry, long answer to your question. When I actually went, when I had the opportunity to take my company from the old guard to Iraq, I did apply a lot of the lessons and I wanted to make sure we were not going over there for, we did end up doing some patrolling and things outside the wire in Iraq on that deployment in 2009, 10. But we weren't preparing for that initially. And it was, but in some of the training and the preparation.

• 1:36:09Speaker 01

  I wanted to take some of the things I had learned, both in combat and in preparing for combat, and apply them to Charlie Company 13 Infantry to make sure we were as well-prepared as possible for anything that came our way. So there was learning, especially on reflection. When I got another opportunity to lead a company in combat, different circumstances. You know, Iraq in 0910 was a very different place than it was 0607. You know, you could be out driving on MSR Tampa, you know, you could stand on the side of the road, you could have a conversation with somebody. In 0607, you know, someone was gonna come shoot at

• 1:36:52Speaker 01

  you, or later that night, there was gonna be an IED on the side of the road, right? That was not happening in 09010, but, or 0910. But I wanted to make sure we were as best prepared for our mission as humanly possible. And that was one of the things that I, you know, when I reflected and I had, and I got another opportunity, I was like, I'm gonna pour into these guys like I never have before.

• 1:37:19Nick Bare?

  Yeah, I can imagine you've seen the best and worst of people.

• 1:37:24Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:37:26Nick Bare?

  You know, thinking about the preparation for a deployment in Garrison.

• 1:37:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:37:31Nick Bare?

  That's one type of leadership requirement. And then the leadership requirements in a kinetic combat zone.

• 1:37:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:37:43Nick Bare?

  Iraq, 0607. But then, as you're sharing this, I'm thinking about the leadership requirements of post-deployment.

• 1:37:51Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:37:54Nick Bare?

  It's leading people in a whole different way.

• 1:37:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:37:58Nick Bare?

  It's not in terms of preparation, but it's recovery.

• 1:38:00Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:38:01Nick Bare?

  Mind, body, soul.

• 1:38:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:38:05Nick Bare?

  And...

• 1:38:07Nick Bare?

  It sounds like in some cases, it's a, it's a, it's a family thing. Wives step up.

• 1:38:14Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:38:14Nick Bare?

  Uh, kids step up and volunteer and support whatever it takes to, to build that team back together, that family back together.

• 1:38:22Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 1:38:23Nick Bare?

  Can only imagine how challenging that is for, not only just for the families and the people, but in terms of testing your leadership.

• 1:38:32Speaker 01

  Absolutely. I mean, and some of the, you know, just to give a huge shout out to so many army spouses and just military spouses overall, but especially during that time, you know, from oh, three, oh, four until you're for about 10, 10, 12 years there where folks were still consistently going to Afghanistan and then into Iraq. Some of the work that our army spouses and the military spouses still do today, but particularly during that time when in the army and in the Marines, you're, you're losing a lot of folks in combat. And some of the work, uh, and support that our army spouses provided to, to grieving families,

• 1:39:17Speaker 01

  um, to families of those who had been wounded. We had several soldiers in third, the 509 that were very, very seriously wounded. Um, you know, lost, lost limbs, burned severely from IEDs, et cetera. The support provided to them, I mean, you want to talk about just being humbled and inspired. Um, that, that stuff was incredible to witness, right? And see the power of when folks are coming together to, you know, to help one another. Uh, and that still happens all across the military and especially in the army. But that time in particular, when a lot of folks were, were consistently deploying and

• 1:39:58Speaker 01

  that we were losing folks, um, at a, you know, pretty high rate, those were some tough times.

• 1:40:05Nick Bare?

  So you were in ROTC when nine 11 happened.

• 1:40:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, I was a senior. Um, I'd just started my senior year, uh, of ROTC. Um, we were doing, you and I talked about Ranger Challenge this morning. We were, we had just finished. We had just finished Ranger Challenge PT in the Benson Mucker Fieldhouse at North Dakota State University and I was getting in my car to drive back to Concordia when I heard the news that the first plane hit the tower. And by the time I was walking to class at 9:30, the second plane had hit the tower and the plane, I think it hit the Pentagon already.

• 1:40:49Speaker 01

  And I'll never forget, I was leaving the building to go across to class. Now, all the classes got canceled that day and all the professors told us to go back. But one of my friends, as I was walking out the door, he just looked at me, he goes, "Hey Eddie, you're gonna go to war." And he kind of said it in jest, but then as I walked out the door and kind of had a solemn moment, I was like, "He's probably right. You know, we're going somewhere after this type of attack on our country." And sure enough, as we talked about, you know, a couple of years later, I was in Afghanistan along with a lot of other folks.

• 1:41:31Nick Bare?

  Because the first three years of your college experience in ROTC, you're not thinking Iraq, Afghanistan, going to war, but everything changes.

• 1:41:42Speaker 01

  It changed like that?

• 1:41:45Nick Bare?

  Were people in ROTC dropping out and enlisting? Did that happen at all?

• 1:41:52Speaker 01

  We might have had a couple. We did have some folks that I remember that were scholarshiped, you know, like four-year type folks that they found a way out.

• 1:42:11Nick Bare?

  Got scared.

• 1:42:12Speaker 01

  They found a way out of the program and of their commitment. And I'm sure some of that involved paying back money from their scholarship. And I remember as a Gold Bar recruiter, working with folks who were going into a contract year or who were already there and moving, you know, towards commissioning. And you're like, "Ness, this person's gonna... It's not, it's not, it's not in their heart. They're gonna leave." But similarly, we had other folks that were...

• 1:42:48Speaker 01

  Then became interested and wanted, hey, what's ROTC about? Where where's that going to lead me? And how can that lead me towards potentially serving my country?

• 1:42:58Nick Bare?

  Was there a shift in the energy of the ROTC department after that?

• 1:43:02Speaker 01

  There was, and I think in a very positive way.

• 1:43:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, my, I mentioned to him, I mentioned this morning, my friend Chad Gosney was the, he became the battalion commander of that battalion. And Chad is an incredible leader. He became a pilot in the Army, Chinook pilot in the Army. He's retired now, but was an incredible pilot, served in the 160th Special Operations Aviation Regiment for a long time. And Chad had been enlisted before in Second Ranger Battalion. And Chad talked a lot about, you know, early on, and that was, you know, what? September, it was so September 01, and then I was commissioned, but I was a Go Barre here, so September 02, so about a year after that, and there started to be the one year anniversary stuff, et cetera.

• 1:43:51Speaker 01

  And I remember, you know, as Chad talked to both his leaders on his staff, but then also the younger cadets about what was going to be required of them and the commitment it was going to take. And it was neat. It was neat to see that out of a 24, 25 year old guy who's leading ROTC battalion, but has enough perspective and appreciation for what's going to happen in the path that these folks are going to have to follow. Excuse me, that that he's kind of laying it out for them and inspiring them himself, because he was unbelievably fit, smart, dedicated, you know, et cetera. So that was neat.

• 1:44:36Nick Bare?

  Yeah, I can imagine those are the moments where leaders stepped up or fell behind.

• 1:44:41Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 1:44:42Nick Bare?

  And he saw some people really, really step up.

• 1:44:44Speaker 01

  You did. And then we had folks in our infantry officer base, of course, that were folks that were, you know, we had, we had a, we had a mix, we had a really healthy mix of ROTC, Officer Candidate School, and guys who had gone to West Point.

• 1:45:02Speaker 01

  But so many of the guys that had gone or that were officer candidate school graduates, they were just like working jobs, you know? And then nine 11 happened and they're like, I'm gonna go become an officer in the army. I want to join the infantry and I want to go to Afghanistan.

• 1:45:19Nick Bare?

  That's all.

• 1:45:20Speaker 01

  And fight for my country. And it was, it was really neat because these guys were, you know, they were working on Wall Street. They were, you know, working jobs in downtown Chicago in the business world. And they're like, yeah, hell no. I'm, I'm gonna go suit up for my country. And that was really neat to see. And there was a lot of soldiers like that as well that I had in my, in my company in ACO three, five oh nine. And all across the army that nine 11 happened. They were in high, middle, late high school. And they're like, I'm gonna join, I'm gonna go serve my country. And it was, it was neat to see and neat to have that. To like in, in ACO three, five oh nine, you could, you could feel that energy from folks.

• 1:46:05Speaker 01

  How motivated they were, you know, how hard they trained. And we're training in Alaska where, you know, six months out of the year, it's, it's freezing. And folks are getting out there and getting after it. You, you could feel that energy. It was neat.

• 1:46:18Nick Bare?

  I mean, you're preparing for a real fight.

• 1:46:19Speaker 01

  Absolutely, 100%.

• 1:46:21Nick Bare?

  There's a, there's a real mission. It's not this made up, maybe, maybe it will come like nuts. It's there, it's coming.

• 1:46:28Speaker 01

  That's right. It was not the Krasnovians, you know? It was, you know, it was real.

• 1:46:31Nick Bare?

  Yeah. The last thing I really want to touch on, and we, we briefly were discussing it when we were working out, is this difference between becoming an asset and a liability.

• 1:46:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:46:44Nick Bare?

  And if I think about your role over the years, and correct me if I'm wrong, but you are building and creating assets and you're eliminating liabilities.

• 1:46:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:46:59Nick Bare?

  How has that view as a leader shaped your approach to building your, your personal life, your fitness, your skills, your, your abilities and others as well and the power of becoming an asset?

• 1:47:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's a great question, Nick, and I think, like especially in the military. And then I'll speak to my personal experience in the army, which, you know, most of that time in the infantry or in units that are preparing to, to go to combat or go on an operational deployment. You've got to be ready. You've got to be ready, not only from a, you know, like personally, I am ready to go and deploy and do things on behalf of my country. But you've got to be physically ready to do that, right? You've got to be physically very sharp and keep yourself sharp.

• 1:47:58Speaker 01

  The, the best leaders that I've worked for in the army, they're not just doing physical training, you know, from six thirty to seven thirty during the, you know, when, when they've got duty, you know, at pick and installation. It's a lifestyle of, of staying fit and staying ready and staying sharp. And that so much that the folks that I have seen and that have, that I've seen have a lot of success in the army, they're doing that consistently. They are, they are prepared mentally, physically, spiritually, emotionally to go do whatever

• 1:48:41Speaker 01

  they need to do on, you know, on behalf of, of their nation. And

• 1:48:49Speaker 01

  We really have to, you know, obviously the Secretary of War just came out, you know, that this was, you know, back in the fall, you know, big speech about, you know, standards and making sure that our, our standards are, we keep our standards are very high, especially for physical training. And I think that is spot on. And it's up to all leaders throughout the military and, and, you know, again, I speak to my experience in the army, to do whatever you can to keep the knife sharp for your

• 1:49:25Speaker 01

  formation so that they are ready to go. And that they can be an asset for their squad, their platoon, their company, their battalion, their brigade, their division, et cetera, instead of being a liability.

• 1:49:44Nick Bare?

  Yeah, I, I apply it to my own life now, post military.

• 1:49:52Nick Bare?

  You know, I am not training for a race right now, for example.

• 1:49:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:49:57Nick Bare?

  That doesn't mean I'm not running. And I want to be an asset to the world.

• 1:50:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:50:05Nick Bare?

  Society, my family.

• 1:50:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:50:07Nick Bare?

  My team. That guides my decisions in terms of the way I train, the way that I eat, the way that I rest.

• 1:50:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:50:15Nick Bare?

  The way that I recover physically, mentally, spiritually, emotionally. I always want to be an asset.

• 1:50:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:50:23Nick Bare?

  I never want to be a liability. And that's what drives me.

• 1:50:26Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 1:50:26Nick Bare?

  Every day.

• 1:50:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's, um, it's a phenomenal approach to have. I, I worked for a guy in Alaska. He was our brigade commander on that deployment. That was really hard. His name was, um, Mike Garrett, and he retired as a four star general. So retires as General Mike Garrett. And he was in incredible shape as, um, as a brigade commander. Um, now, you know, and hopefully he listens to this, but I could still take him, right, as, as young Captain Aronson. Uh, but he was in incredible shape. And, and someone had asked him one time, hey, sir, why do you do PT? Because he did PT so hard. I mean, the effort and the energy that he poured into keeping himself ready, uh, as a colonel at the time, and that he

• 1:51:12Speaker 01

  did for the rest of his career, all the way through four star general, was incredible.

• 1:51:19Speaker 01

  And he, he just had a really good answer. He just said, hey, look, I want to live a long time. I want to be around for my kids and my grandkids, right? And as I see him now, right? As, as a grandfather, um, in, in that role, like, he's an asset for his family because of how he takes care of himself, how he continues to, you know, stay fit, stay super sharp. So he can be an asset for his kids, for his grandkids, for his wife, right? For his brothers, for his sisters, uh, you know, for his aging father, et cetera, right? And that is such a great, like, like, why are you working as hard as you're working? Like, I'm working as hard as I'm working

• 1:52:04Speaker 01

  so that I can live as long as humanly possible and be an asset for my family, right? Just at, at a very baseline level, even if, if you remove the military or anything like that. I want to be an asset for my family, um, going forward.

• 1:52:21Nick Bare?

  Yes, the quantity of life, but the, the quality of life as well.

• 1:52:26Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 1:52:27Nick Bare?

  And not a quantity so that the quality of others decreases.

• 1:52:31Speaker 01

  That's right. That's right. And it's, and it's about, it's like, you talked about that earlier, Nick, which is a great point, like making yourself like small, but like, it's not about me, but like, how can I be, make myself be a servant to others, right? How can I continue to serve, continue to lead, right? But as an asset.

• 1:52:54Nick Bare?

  Yeah.

• 1:52:54Speaker 01

  Right? Yeah.

• 1:52:55Nick Bare?

  Well, sir, I appreciate this. It's been a great conversation.

• 1:52:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, you bet. There was one other thing I wanted to hit on a little bit, if I can.

• 1:53:03Nick Bare?

  I'd love for you to do that.

• 1:53:04Speaker 01

  The, um, on something I think just might benefit folks in terms of, because I think a lot of people, the way that they think about leadership, they're not really sure.

• 1:53:20Speaker 01

  Hey, what does good leadership look like? Right? We talked about, you know, your energy and tone, right? Which is a great place to start in terms of how you as a leader interact with folks.

• 1:53:33Speaker 01

  I developed a little bit of a formula that if I can just share with you, it might help folks.

• 1:53:39Nick Bare?

  Yeah, great.

• 1:53:40Speaker 01

  Just to, how folks can think about leadership. This is how I think about it and what I look for in leaders. The first, first thing is authenticity. Is the person, does the audio match the visual? Right? Is the person being their authentic self? Right?

• 1:54:00Speaker 01

  And I worked for a general officer who was an introvert.

• 1:54:06Speaker 01

  Fantastic leader, but he was an introvert. That was, he didn't try to not be that. But in the times where he needed to really be an extrovert, he was and he led and he did everything he needed to do and did it superbly. Right? But at his core, he's kind of a quiet, introverted guy. And he never tried to shy away from that. Right? He just knew when the right times were to have, I'm giving a speech, I'm giving, you know, a presentation on leader development. I can't sit in the corner, right? We gotta be out there, we gotta project strength, et cetera, right?

• 1:54:44Nick Bare?

  A lot of confidence to know who you are and then own that.

• 1:54:48Speaker 01

  That's right, and just be yourself, right? So authenticity, right? Audio match the visual and are you the person that you are, you know, purporting yourself to be? Or are you trying to be someone else? Right? The second thing is humility. We've talked a tremendous amount about humility on this podcast as a cornerstone of great tone and great leaders, you know, but are, are you coachable? Are you teachable? And do you have the ability to say?

• 1:55:21Speaker 01

  I made a mistake as a leader. I did not make the right decision there. I should have made this decision. My apologies, I'm gonna make up for it. Right? Are you humble enough? So is somebody authentic? Are they humble? And then intellectual curiosity, which we hit on a little bit. Are you trying to grow? And are you trying to develop as, as a leader, as a person? Right? Not just for, you know, not just for your organization, but as a person? Are you generally intellectually curious? You wanna learn new things? Excuse me, are you interested in learning? You know, um, hearing different opinions? Right? Or? Hey, I've got it all figured out.

• 1:56:06Speaker 01

  You know? You, you know? I, I don't need to hear Nick's opinion about X, Y, or Z. Or are you genuinely a curious and interested person? And what other folks have to offer in learning new things and new skills? Mm-hmm. Authenticity, humility, intellectual curiosity are the numerators. The denominator is competence. If you had all those three things up front, you know, you Nick Baer, CEO of VPN. You are absolutely authentic. You know, audio matches the visual. Like, well, Nick, Nick doesn't work out. Like, um, we see the videos. Nick trains pretty, pretty freaking hard, right? He is humble, right?

• 1:56:49Speaker 01

  He is not always making it about himself. He is promoting the team, what everyone else is doing, et cetera. And, you know, he is someone who's intellectually curious. He wants to learn. Mm-hmm. Well, Nick, if you didn't know anything about, like, nutrition science and supplements? And how to fuel the body and how to train? My guess is you would not be that great of a CEO for, for Bear Performance Nutrition. Correct. Right? Like, you'd, you'd be great just as like Nick the guy. Like, Nick's humble. He is, you know, he's curious, he wants to learn. But like, when we talk about competence in your profession? You've gotta have that.

• 1:57:32Speaker 01

  You've got to have competence, right? Whether that's as a military leader, a business leader, et cetera. You've got to know what you're talking about when it comes to, for me, you know, maneuver warfare, combat, right? Leading folks, et cetera. I gotta know what I'm talking about. I gotta know what I'm doing in that space, making decisions in combat, in training for combat, et cetera. If I can't do that and I don't know how to do that, or lead a staff, lead a team, like,

• 1:58:06Speaker 01

  you could be all those other things. You're not gonna be a great leader.

• 1:58:10Nick Bare?

  Yeah.

• 1:58:10Speaker 01

  But where you see those four things, I think, where you see authenticity, where you see humility, where you see intellectual curiosity over a rock solid foundation of competence, I think you see great leadership. And if you start to analyze folks that you're like, you know, that person looks good,

• 1:58:33Speaker 01

  but there's something missing. You know what I mean? Like, maybe there's a little something. That person, they might need a little humility. They might need, maybe they're really competent, but they're missing one area. And maybe that can be rounded out by another team member, right? And then the whole, the whole team can improve. But for, for folks, as they look at, like, what does really good leadership look like? I have found that formula to be really helpful as I look at folks inside the army, outside the army, whether it's a coach, you know, of a, of professional college team, whatever. And I start to look at them and analyze them. I look at it through that lens most of the time. Where you find great leadership,

• 1:59:17Speaker 01

  you have those four things in spade.

• 1:59:20Nick Bare?

  I love that. I love that to use also for evaluation reports of subordinate leaders.

• 1:59:28Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:59:28Nick Bare?

  But one of the questions people ask me all the time is, how do I find a mentor or an advisor?

• 1:59:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:59:34Nick Bare?

  I mean, using that formula to evaluate people.

• 1:59:38Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:59:39Nick Bare?

  If they will be a good mentor or advisor to you.

• 1:59:42Speaker 01

  A hundred percent.

• 1:59:43Nick Bare?

  And I love that you mentioned within your humility, coachable and teachable.

• 1:59:47Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:59:48Nick Bare?

  I believe a lot of times people just view humility as the opposite of.

• 1:59:56Nick Bare?

  Prideful.

• 1:59:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:59:57Nick Bare?

  And it's putting other people first.

• 1:59:59Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:00:00Nick Bare?

  Which it is. But you can, you can put others first and still not be coachable and teachable.

• 2:00:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:00:06Nick Bare?

  And when you are uncoachable and unteachable, you are very hard to work with.

• 2:00:13Speaker 01

  A hundred percent.

• 2:00:14Nick Bare?

  I have found like the best leaders are, are open to and want feedback. They want to be coached. They want to be taught. They want to develop. They want to learn. They want to grow. I love that formula. That's great.

• 2:00:25Speaker 01

  Absolutely. So anyway, I just wanted to, that's something that, you know, I, I've, I've had, you know, it's existed on different whiteboards. Through, throughout my time in, in the army and wanted to share with you and, and your audience and hopefully somebody finds that, that helpful.

• 2:00:42Nick Bare?

  No, that's super helpful. Well, I appreciate it.

• 2:00:46Nick Bare?

  You know, I, I have a lot of respect for you and what you've done. And the few times we spent time together.

• 2:00:56Nick Bare?

  Man of character, man of God. Strong leader, the, the resume to, to prove the credentials and credibility behind it. And

• 2:01:09Nick Bare?

  you know, there's a lot of people who, who talk about leadership and it's another thing to have lived it and experienced it for 20 plus years.

• 2:01:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:01:20Nick Bare?

  So I appreciate you coming on here and sharing some wisdom of what you've learned that can be applicable to not only the military business, but ourselves, our families, teams.

• 2:01:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:01:32Nick Bare?

  Leadership is like, it's a,

• 2:01:36Nick Bare?

  it is a keystone to life.

• 2:01:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:01:38Nick Bare?

  It is an unlock for so much.

• 2:01:40Speaker 01

  It is.

• 2:01:41Nick Bare?

  So I really appreciate you.

• 2:01:42Speaker 01

  Thank you very much. Thank you for having me. Thank you for what you and your team do here at BPN. I shared this when we came for one of our sessions in, in Grey Wolf.

• 2:01:53Speaker 01

  You and your team do such an incredible job of,

• 2:01:58Speaker 01

  of inspiring so many folks to you personally and, and your team.

• 2:02:04Speaker 01

  That they can, you know, your motto is go one more and it's, it is perfect. It inspires so many folks to say, I saw Nick do this today. I'm gonna go another mile. I'm gonna do a few more pushups, a few more pullups. And so I really appreciate what you and your team do for kind of pointing everyone just a little bit higher. I can push a little bit further. I can go a little bit further. I think that is a really neat aspect of what your brand is about. And it inspires probably more people than you know, so thank you for that.

• 2:02:40Nick Bare?

  Thank you. I appreciate you.

• 2:02:41Speaker 01

  You bet. Thank you.