The Moth Radio Hour: Rites of Passage

In this episode, milestones and new phases of life. Achieved in a pool, on stage, and in the wilderness of Alaska. This episode is hosted by Moth Executive Producer Sarah Austin Jenness. The Moth Radio Hour is produced by The Moth and Jay Allison of Atlantic Public Media. Storytellers: Jennifer Cohen contends with her children leaving for college. Justin Hawkins finds himself a fish out of water in swim class. Susan Mweni goes against cultural norms. James Dommek Jr. reconnects with his heritage and the land through moose hunting. Podcast # 907

• 0:13Speaker 00

  This is the Moth Radio Hour. I'm Sarah Austin Janess. In this episode, stories told on Moth stages around the world. We'll bring you to the coast of Kenya, a remote island off Anchorage, Alaska, a stage in Burlington, Vermont, and a swimming pool in Logan, Utah. All are stories of rites of passage. Our first storyteller, Jennifer Cohen, shares what it's like to live through the empty nester phase of life. She told this at an open-mic Story Slam in Burlington, Vermont, where we partner with Vermont Public Radio. Here's Jennifer Cohen, live at the Moth.

• 0:51Speaker 01

  So when my kids were little, the go-to movie to watch when they were sick or it was raining was, for some reason, Annie the Musical. And I would watch them, sitting close together, three pair of bright blue eyes, watching Carol Burnett sing "Little Girls, Little Girls" again and again and again. And I told them, I said, "You know, when you grow up and you go off to college and I'm all bored and lonely, I think the Flynn Theater should do the musical Annie." And I could be in it because I know all the songs, like every word. And so this kind of bolstered me into this pretend auditioning for the show that I would do for the kids when I was in the car or on the beach or in the shower. I would just sing "Little Girls, Little Girls," and they'd say, "Getting ready for

• 1:36Speaker 01

  the show, Mom?" I was like, "Yeah." So it's just like a weird family joke. So the years just went by, and the first one went off to college, and that was horrifying. And the second one went off to college, and that was horrendous. And it was the third one, senior year, and I was sitting at the Flynn Theater in January, and a woman comes to the podium and she says, "I'd like to announce that in the fall, we'll be doing the musical Annie." I was like, "Oh, my God, this is so weird." And right at that moment, my phone rang and I pulled it out. It was my friend from California and her name was across the screen and her name is Annie. I'm like, "God, this is bizarre." And it didn't stop. I went to the grocery store on my way home and in the checkout aisle, there was this little

• 2:20Speaker 01

  retrospective of Carol Burnett as Miss Hannigan. And then, this is all within three hours, I got home and I was exercising, I was watching the show Shameless and you can check in episode two, season three, they refer to the musical Annie. So I thought, "This is just weird. I'm getting these signs from the universe that I should be in this show or something." So I called the kids and I told them and I said, "Oh Mom, you gotta do it. You gotta do that real audition now. Like, do it, do it." And I thought, you know, being in a musical wasn't really my vibe, but I thought, you know, I'm gonna be so devastated once that third one leaves it. I thought, "Maybe this would give me something fun." And, you know, 'cause I'm pretty sure you can't sing, dance, and cry all at the same time, so I thought it could be fun.

• 3:02Speaker 01

  So I go to the audition and you know, it's the Flint Theater and they're like, you know, kinda serious, like you get a number and you gotta act, you gotta dance, you gotta sing. So I go to the acting part and that one was okay. And then I go to the dancing part and this lady's up there, it's like, "Step, ball change, fan kick, pivot and repeat." And, "Ahhhh." And she's like, "Number two twelve, like get your arms right." And I'm like, "Not getting the arms right." And I kinda bump into this lady next to me, she's all mad, it was kinda a disaster. So then I go to the singing part and you would think that sixteen years might be long enough to practice that song, but I got up, they're like, "Little girls, little girls." And I was just like, freak, I just, I didn't know what came next. So I went home and I called the kids and I said, "You know, thank you so much for that encouragement, but we're gonna have to think of something else because..."

• 3:46Speaker 01

  And I think those signs from the universe were all about me, like just pushing myself out of my comfort zone and I did that and it was just funny, so, good. The next day, the director called and he said, "We'd like to offer you two small singing roles." And I'm like, "Really?" And they're like, "Yeah." So I started going to the rehearsals and it worked. You know, I came home from teaching and the home would be all quiet. It was terribly lonely and I would cry. The dog had even died. It was just horrible. And so, I know, it's terrible. And but then in the evenings, I would get to go into my rehearsals and goofy and fun. So then the months go by, all rehearsals are done. It's opening night at the Flynn. It's like full house. It's gonna be really fun. The orchestra's going and I have my weird costume on and everything.

• 4:28Speaker 01

  And there's this point in the play when I get to come to the front and center, like right in the middle, and the lights are on me and I just get to like belt out this one big line. And I was a homeless woman talking to Herbert Hoover and here's my line. I said, "You dirty rats, you bureaucrats, you made us what we are to..." And then I saw three pair of bright blue eyes just watching Annie again. And I was, I thought, oh, all those signs of the universe, they're just all about this one really nice mom moment that I get to have, seeing my kids again, surprised me. So I got all choked up and filled with tears. But remarkably, I was able to finish my song because apparently you can sing, dance,

• 5:12Speaker 01

  and cry all at the same time.

• 5:23Speaker 00

  That was Jennifer Cohen. Jennifer is still living in Vermont, still teaching high school English, still an empty nester, and still missing her daughters. She hasn't been in any more musicals, but when her daughters came home during COVID, they bought a golden retriever puppy named Leo for their mom. So Leo is kind of a stand-in for the girls now that they're back in college. To see photos of Jennifer and Leo and Jennifer onstage in Annie, go to our Radio Extras page at themoth.org. A rite of passage is stepping into a new chapter. It can be uncomfortable.

• 6:03Speaker 00

  It can be a little risky, but sometimes you need to just dive right in, literally. Justin Hawkins told our next story at a Moth mainstage in Logan, Utah, where we partnered with Utah Public Radio and the Cache Valley Center for the Arts. Here's Justin, live at the Moth.

• 6:27Speaker 02

  I stood there in the water, waiting for my swim lessons to begin. I was pretty nervous. I started to see parents usher their kids to the pool, and then take a seat off to the side. I started looking for my own parents, but they weren't there. Because I was 33 years old.

• 6:48Speaker 02

  I didn't know how to swim.

• 6:51Speaker 02

  The week prior, I had stared at my computer screen for like, four hours debating back and forth as to whether I should purchase these swim lessons that I found on Groupon, which, I guess if you're gonna put your life in somebody's hands, you should do so at a discounted rate.

• 7:10Speaker 02

  Every moment of indecision that I stared at my computer, I kept reliving these moments of great fear where I almost drowned as a kid, followed by these experiences of failing to learn how to swim, which led to my mom ultimately deciding that swimming was off limits for me. To make matters worse as a kid, my school would bus to the local YMCA every week for gym and swim class, and my mom, every week, would hand-write me a note to shamefully hand to the teacher, excusing me from getting into the pool for a fictitious chlorine allergy.

• 7:53Speaker 02

  Every week I would watch my friends swim and have a good time, and that lasted for like, five years, until I switched schools. I was pretty set on the fact that going forward, I was gonna have to scroll through a rolodex of excuses about why I never wanted to go to the beach or to somebody's pool party. I could've been having a lot of fun. So, I had gone thirty years without knowing how to swim. I could probably go another thirty. But this was much more than about learning how to swim for me. I was greatly loved as a kid. But any fundamental growth that I should have had,

• 8:35Speaker 02

  it was severely stunted by the fact that I grew up in a home with a parent that was mentally unstable and it was... I was led to believe that everything was dangerous, everything came at risk and consequences. If it was thundering or lightning out, me and every one of my siblings, literally every time, had to line up in an entryway in our house just in case the house got struck by lightning and collapsed. We were allowed outside to play, but only for a few minutes at a time just in case we got bit by a bug with a disease or kidnapped. Like, it was bad. And I had to be afraid of so many things, even on the smallest scale of risk.

• 9:19Speaker 02

  And I ended up missing out on a lot of stuff. The greatest decision I ever made in my life was to start seeing a therapist. And it wasn't until then that I started to give myself a crash course on life in my thirties. When I started therapy, my therapist and I came up with a long, long list of everything I had never experienced or done. And swimming was on that list. I didn't need to know how to swim, but I had to conquer this fear in order to put my other anxieties on notice. So I purchased these swim lessons. And the teacher was late the first day, which led to a lot of questions from parents and kids.

• 10:04Speaker 02

  "Are you the teacher?" the parents asked. "Uh, no, I'm not the teacher. Just trying to learn how to swim and not be a weirdo about it." Which led to the kids asking me, "Uh, why don't you know how to swim? And why do you have a beard on your face and your back?"

• 10:28Speaker 02

  I had called, prior to this, to avoid this very situation, because the description on these adult swim classes said ages 12 and up. The voice on the other end of the phone, which clearly was going through puberty, said, "Relax, don't worry about it. We put like ages with like ages.

• 10:52Speaker 02

  However, that's based on demand and availability." Well, demand and availability led to me being stuck in a class with a 12-year-old, a 13-year-old, and two 15-year-olds. Oh, God, kill me now.

• 11:12Speaker 02

  As soon as these classes started, these kids were frickin' Michael Phelps. They were merpeople. Like, not beginners at all. The whole first day was a huge disaster for me, which I choked on every ounce of pool water, and for the most part, I just clung to the side. And at the end of the first lesson, one of these kids ran off with my bathing cap.

• 11:40Speaker 02

  The following week, though, I was determined to do better. And I was very encouraged by my therapist, who told me I needed to see this through. I was also pretty pumped up by the fact that before every swim lesson, right before I got into the pool, I would be binge-watching every motivational movie speech I could find on my phone, because goonies never say die.

• 12:08Speaker 02

  And then oddly, over the course of the next few sessions, I started doing strokes in the pool that I had never done before, and it was coming almost naturally to me. I was seeing progress in something that I had never seen before. And it felt good. It felt really good. From where I stood, the fear seemed like it was gone. But it wasn't. It was just waiting. Because on the last day, graduation day, the instructor took a ring and tossed it into the deep end of the pool and everybody had to go down and get it. I started freaking out.

• 12:51Speaker 02

  Just like a best friend I hadn't seen in a long time, Fear and I picked up right where we left off. I leaned over to the kid next to me and I was just like, "Hey, how are you feeling about this, dude? Like, I'm about to shit my pants here." He was 13, by the way. He just looked at me with a blank stare and he was like, "Well, um, my mom said that if we all do it, she's gonna get us all pizza afterwards." He dove in and popped right back up with the ring, and it was my turn next. I stared down through the water at the ring

• 13:35Speaker 02

  and whatever demise waited for me down there. And I was like, "You know what? I'm good. I'm good. Like, I'm gonna pass on this." And I went to the instructor and I was just like, "Hey, I'm good. I've come further than I ever thought I could with this and I could be perfectly satisfied to walk away not diving down there." And then oddly, a couple of the parents off to the side were like, "Come on, Justin, you got this." And I was like, "No, no, I don't wanna do this and this isn't a Disney movie." So I grabbed my towel and I grabbed the keys to my locker

• 14:20Speaker 02

  and I told the instructor, "Thank you so much for everything that you've done for me to get me to this point." And he's like, "Listen, Justin, don't worry about the ring, okay? It's fine. What you should be worried about is the keys to your locker." And then this jerk grabbed my keys and tossed them into the deep end.

• 14:47Speaker 02

  I dove in. I could barely see, but I felt those keys and I bolted straight back up to the surface, came out of the water unscathed, baptized anew by chlorine. I showed those keys to everybody and I said a lot of things I probably shouldn't have said in front of those kids. And they all cheered.

• 15:17Speaker 02

  I can't describe to you the wave of satisfaction that came over me and the feeling of relief that I had finally slayed this fear. I never told anybody about what I had achieved that day. Or the awesome pizza party we had afterwards. That summer, I swam in the ocean for the first time. Thank you very much.

• 15:51Speaker 00

  That was Justin Hawkins. When this story took place, Justin was a 30-something, living in New York City and working in television. But a few years ago, Justin moved to Hollywood to get out of the entertainment industry. Now he and one of his closest friends fabricate furniture together. He still swims and he jumps in the pool without having to think twice about it. To see photos of Justin in the pool, go to themoth.org. After our break, a young woman in Nairobi, Kenya, goes against the grain. When The Moth Radio Hour continues.

• 16:58Speaker 03

  The Moth Radio Hour is produced by Atlantic Public Media in Woods Hole, Massachusetts.

• 17:04Speaker 04

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• 18:04Speaker 00

  This is The Moth Radio Hour. I'm Sarah Austin Janess, and this episode is all about rites of passage that make us who we are. I met Susan Mweni, our next storyteller in Nairobi, in a workshop with The Moth's Global Program, where we help advocates use their stories to change the world. And Susan always shows up to her story rehearsals on the back of a motorbike with a leather jacket on, just to give you a sense of her mojo. She told this story onstage with us in Thailand for an event all about women's rights, and this recording is from a Moth main stage in Washington State, where we partnered with Seattle Arts and Lectures. Here's Susan Mweni, live at The Moth at Benaroya Hall.

• 18:50Speaker 05

  I am the only girl in a family of six children. I'm seated across from my mom in our tiny, partially lit living area in Kibera, Nairobi, Kenya. And we are having one of our mother-daughter talks. I asked her, "Ma'am, why do you have six children?"

• 19:14Speaker 05

  And she said, "Because your father and I were looking for a baby girl."

• 19:21Speaker 05

  And I asked, "Ma'am, why is it then that you never stopped after giving birth to me?"

• 19:33Speaker 05

  And she said, "Because children are a blessing from God, so we accept the number that God gives to us." And I said, "Well, ma'am, I have something that I want to tell you."

• 19:49Speaker 05

  "This is hard for me to say, but I have to tell you." And I said, "Ma'am, I have no desire whatsoever to marry or have children."

• 20:07Speaker 05

  Shocked and devastated, especially this coming from our only daughter. She asked, "Mweni, why don't you wish to have children?" And I said, "Ma'am, it is my personal choice. I'm also taking care of my siblings, and the girls I work with in the community are equally my children. And I also want to enjoy my time independently and freely." She looked at me and said, "Mweni, I hope you eventually change your mind, because as a woman, it is important to have your own children."

• 20:52Speaker 05

  Well, I am out of high school, and I jump straight into the dating pool, kissing a few frogs here and there.

• 21:03Speaker 05

  Of course, I am human. I might not desire the whole idea of marriage and having children, but the desire for companionship is there. During my escapades, I met my prince charming.

• 21:19Speaker 05

  My ideal type of a perfect man. Stunning looks, amazing personality, great sense of humor and style. Always including me in his plans, both present and future. The most patient, intentional and loving man. He'd buy me flowers, take me out on romantic dinner dates and vacation. And I remember this one Thursday, he called and asked me, "Babe, what are your plans for the weekend?" And I said, "Babe, you are my plan."

• 21:59Speaker 05

  And he said, "Okay, start packing. We'll be spending our weekend together at the coast." Excited, I reminded him,

• 22:09Speaker 05

  "I will also pack the condoms, just in case he forgets." Days passed, weeks turned into months, and months into a year. Our love kept growing strong. He became my to-go person, my gossip mate and my best friend. But still, there was that anxiety and dilemma that I carried deep within me. And I'm thinking, "If I tell him, will he end the relationship? Will he convince me to change my mind?

• 22:52Speaker 05

  Or will he love me for me?"

• 22:58Speaker 05

  One year turned into two years. I still can't say it. Because I know we have different expectations. And my expectation will hurt him.

• 23:19Speaker 05

  Two years.

• 23:22Speaker 05

  At this time, he had introduced me to his family. Mentions of moving in together and having children dominated most of his conversations. We are strolling around the busy market. He sees cute baby shoes and baby clothes. He says, "Babe, I can't wait to buy such for a baby." At the supermarket, he sees baby diapers. And he says, "Babe, I can't wait for the day we'll include baby diapers in our shopping list." I always found a way to avoid the subject.

• 24:05Speaker 05

  We're making love. He'll say, "Babe, I can't wait for the day we'll stop using the condoms."

• 24:16Speaker 05

  Well, I knew that time will never come. But still, I did not communicate. Not because I was questioning my decision, but because I didn't have the strength to tell him, and I knew it will hurt him. You know, marriage is our cultural norm.

• 24:41Speaker 05

  And as women, we are expected to marry and have children. Because it's a belief, that is what defines us.

• 24:51Speaker 05

  Almost all my friends are married and they have children.

• 24:58Speaker 05

  And I feel alone in my desire.

• 25:01Speaker 05

  I've attended several baby showers and bridal showers. And every time they tell me, "Susan, you should be the next one." I'm now feeling the pressure to conform, not only from my boyfriend, but also from the society.

• 25:24Speaker 05

  Four years down the line.

• 25:29Speaker 05

  I can't bring it up. I know at this time, it will hurt and it will hurt deep.

• 25:37Speaker 05

  One day, my phone rings. It was one of his close friend.

• 25:45Speaker 05

  I picked up the phone and he said, "Susan, I have exciting news for you. You know what? Your boyfriend is planning to propose to you on your birthday. This is a surprise. This is a secret, so act surprised when that time comes."

• 26:07Speaker 05

  Talk of fear and anger. Why will he want to propose? Determined not to let him go down on one knee, I started distancing myself from him. I cut off contact with him. And I did that hoping he will give up on me and find a partner who aligns with his values.

• 26:32Speaker 05

  It was not easy for me as well. I felt lonely and I was missing him. And at times, I wanted to call him.

• 26:42Speaker 05

  One month passed and I thought, "Oh,

• 26:46Speaker 05

  my strategy has worked." Two months since my birthday passed and I thought, "Oh, he's moved on."

• 26:57Speaker 05

  Three months later, on a chilly Sunday, I was relaxing in my house, listening to reggae music. I had a knock at the door. I immediately paused the music, walked towards the door to see who it was.

• 27:15Speaker 05

  And to my surprise, it was him. For a moment, I froze, contemplating whether to let him in or not. I finally decided to let him in. He walked straight to the couch, sat down and requested me to come sit beside him. He reached out for my right hand, held it with both his hands and told me, "Babe, I don't know what I have done wrong.

• 27:48Speaker 05

  Babe, let's talk things out and go back to where we were." All this time, I had not uttered a single word. Looking straight into my eyes, he said, "Babe, I'm not leaving this place until you tell me what is going on." I told him, "Babe, I love you. I love you so much. I just didn't know how to say this to you, that I have no desire to marry or have children."

• 28:25Speaker 05

  In this belief, and in tears on his face,

• 28:31Speaker 05

  he asked in a low but firm voice, "Why now? Why you wait for that long? Why you hold such important information that you would have communicated from the start? Susan, you've broken me."

• 28:52Speaker 05

  I felt crushed and sorry for hurting him.

• 28:58Speaker 05

  He left until just recently, when he reached out to me to inform me that he's in a relationship and is happy.

• 29:12Speaker 05

  I'm so happy for him. And as for me, my stand on being child-free and marriage-free still remains. But I have decided that I will always communicate from the onset because I don't want to hurt another person the same way I hurt my prince charming. Thank you.

• 29:45Speaker 00

  That was Susan Wenney. Susan lives in Nairobi, Kenya. She's the founder of a grassroots feminist organization called Making a Difference Sisters, MAD Sisters for short. These days, Susan has a new boyfriend. She says her ex-boyfriend has met a new partner too, and everyone is now on the same page about what they want for their futures. Her advice is not to feel pressured by the rites of passage that society may push on you. She says self-honesty leads to a happier life. To see photos of Susan with her mom, her nieces, and nephews, go to themoth.org.

• 30:29Speaker 00

  After the break, a man makes his yearly journey to a tiny island in Alaska in search of moose when The Moth Radio Hour continues.

• 30:54Speaker 03

  The Moth Radio Hour is produced by Atlantic Public Media in Woods Hole, Massachusetts.

• 31:01Speaker 00

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• 32:36Speaker 00

  This is The Moth Radio Hour. I'm Sarah Austin Janess. We've been producing Moth Nights in Alaska with the Anchorage Concert Association once a year for some time now, and this next story is from an Anchorage local. Before we hear the story, here's a little from James Damick Jr. when we talked a short time ago.

• 32:54Speaker 06

  My Inupac name is Milukruk, and I'm from above the Arctic Circle, northwest Alaska. And my great-grandfather, Palangon, was one of the last great Inupac storytellers. And he was born before the missionaries came. He never knew English, but he knew all the stories. And as a kid, I always knew that my family were storytellers. When we did the Moth in Anchorage, you asked me to do the 12-minute story, and I said, "I don't know if I could do that." It's the winter. It's storming out. It's cold. What's the rush? You're in Alaska. And back in the day, some of these stories could take days.

• 33:39Speaker 06

  You would sit, and you would listen, and this person would talk, and he would tell a story. He'd say, "Come back tomorrow, and I'll tell you the middle part." Tell the story all day. "Come back tomorrow, and I'll tell you the ending." You could survive if you paid attention to the right story.

• 33:54Speaker 00

  With that, here's James Damick Jr. live at The Moth in Anchorage, Alaska.

• 34:00Speaker 06

  I'm at the Kotsbys Boat Harbor. I'm pushing a boat out into the water. I jump on the bow. I climb in. My hunting partner, John, turns on the boat motor, and we're off. Three and a half hours later, into the wild, off the grid, we're setting up our Arctic Oven tent on a heavily wooded island in one of the many braids that make up the Kobaq River Delta. It's a perfect spot to set up a moose hunting camp. It's right in a bend of a river. It's on a sandy beach. It's flat.

• 34:45Speaker 06

  We set up our tent. We're working. We're getting it going. The Inupac elders from my area used to say, "A long time ago, life was a struggle. It was very hard to live." But the people were fulfilled.

• 35:05Speaker 06

  And nowadays, it's very easy to live.

• 35:10Speaker 06

  And the people are not fulfilled.

• 35:14Speaker 06

  And I think about that as I struggle setting up the tent and getting things ready because we had to get up early because to catch a moose, you gotta meet, you gotta meet the moose on its own terms. You gotta get up real early. So we go to bed early.

• 35:31Speaker 06

  We set up the arti, we throw, put in this, uh, wood in the stove and we set up and we, we go to bed early. And in the middle of the night, I have to use the bathroom, I go outside the tent. And I'm immediately greeted by a million sparkly diamonds.

• 35:47Speaker 06

  The full moon was up over the hills. And it was making all the ice crystals dance. Because while we were sleeping in that hot tent, a deep freeze had set in.

• 36:02Speaker 06

  And the once soft sand that we were walking on was now hard as concrete. Thing was frozen.

• 36:12Speaker 06

  All I could hear is the wind blowing through the trees.

• 36:16Speaker 06

  And the sound of this little waterfall that was flowing off the tundra into the river. And we liked that little waterfall. We picked this camp for that reason. The sounds would mask our sounds in the camp, the sounds of the water falling. Would mask our sounds. But also if things got hairy, we'd be close to a fresh source of drinking water.

• 36:44Speaker 06

  And the full moon, I'm looking at it and it reminds me of all the wolf tracks we found in the sand around this camp that we set up, lots of wolf tracks, big wolf tracks.

• 36:55Speaker 06

  And the locals, I heard from some of the locals, there's a super pack in that area.

• 37:01Speaker 06

  Fifteen to thirty wolves.

• 37:05Speaker 06

  In my sleepy brain, I start trying to do the math of just how many teeth and claws thirty wolves would be.

• 37:15Speaker 06

  So I haul ass back to the tent and get in the tent. Put in a log. Try to get a few more minutes of sleep before we have to get up and go look. So we get up super early. I make coffee, I make breakfast, we get ready, we get, we get all our stuff on. We're bundled up, we look like Iditarod dog mushers, we got head lamps on. We go to leave, it's quiet, we could barely see. The moon has going down over this horizon, the sun was not even close to coming up. It's very dark, but we could just barely make out the edges of this little river. I go and kick the anchor to try to get it loose, and it's frozen solid into the sand,

• 37:59Speaker 06

  frozen. I quietly, as I could, jostle it loose. Put it in the boat, real quiet, and we get in, we try to leave, the boat's frozen to the riverbank. It's cold. But hey, no mosquitoes.

• 38:23Speaker 06

  So we finally rock back and forth, we get the boat going, we get it out. The plan was to slowly putt-putt down this river, real quiet and slow, calling for the moose. And trying to catch it, the bull, drinking its water in the morning on the riverbank. And when you're driving and you're hunting, there's lots of time to think, because you gotta be so quiet. And I think about how my ancestors really needed this meat, they needed it. And, for me, it was just kind of a want, because I live in Anchorage now.

• 39:05Speaker 06

  I think about how I was raised, born and raised in Cotsby, living off the land, learning from my uncles, how to hunt, how to fish, all the tricks to live off the land up north. I think about how when I moved to Anchorage in 96, I felt very disconnected from all of that.

• 39:28Speaker 06

  We get going, we make a way, we're slowly going. We'd stop once in a while, we'd get out and look. We'd get up, get up and look around, glass around. We'd call for the moose, still nothing. We keep going, still got time to think. I think about how last year me and John went out twice. Up two different rivers, spent about a week total, and got skunked. All we saw were bears. I don't know, maybe it was too warm? We didn't see anything. So this, this year, we had to get something.

• 40:05Speaker 06

  And about an hour after slowly going down, we decided to turn around and slowly putt-putt our way back to our hunting camp.

• 40:15Speaker 06

  And just then, the CB radio went off.

• 40:21Speaker 06

  "John C., do you copy?" John, oh, someone's calling my name. He picked up the EHF radio, he said, "Go for John." And the voice on the other side said, "Congratulations, John, you're the proud father of a baby girl."

• 40:36Speaker 06

  He looked at me stunned.

• 40:40Speaker 06

  Because a week before, him and his wife were down here in Anchorage, they were set to adopt a baby that was taking a long time to come into this world. And the window of opportunity to go hunt was closing, it was getting colder and colder. So it was decided John would go up north and go hunt with me. And his wife would stay here with the baby.

• 41:04Speaker 06

  John just looked at me stunned and said, "Holy shit, I'm a girl dad now."

• 41:10Speaker 06

  And I said, "John, it's, it's gonna be the best, it's the best." I know a couple things about being a girl dad. Because a week prior, my own daughter had just turned eighteen.

• 41:26Speaker 06

  So I shake his hand, I slap his back, he's, you know, he's still stunned, and I say, "John, now we gotta catch that moose."

• 41:36Speaker 06

  He said, "Yeah, yeah, we have to." We're about a half a mile from our camp.

• 41:43Speaker 06

  The sun is not up yet. It's slowly trying to come up over the Kobuk Valley.

• 41:52Speaker 06

  There's a meadow to the left. We decide to go stop at it. John makes his moose call. I get out of the boat. I put the anchor in the mud real quiet. I climb up the steep riverbank about five, six feet. And on top of this riverbank was the tundra. And it was walled by this spruce trees way back in this meadow. But right at the top of this riverbank were these willows above about three feet high, three, four feet high. So I get up onto the riverbank. And I stay low. I stay crouched down.

• 42:33Speaker 06

  I'm on my hands and knees and I'm low and I feel like one of them wolves. And I slowly lift my head up over the willows and look around towards the back of this meadow. Looking around, I quickly drop back down. And I look back at John and he signals to me quietly. Anything? And I squinch my nose. No. This means no. And in fact, no. And we're at this point, we're talking in Navy SEAL type hand signals. So I tell him I'm gonna look one more time. He says, yeah.

• 43:17Speaker 06

  So I slowly raise up again. I'm on my hands and knees still. I'm down. And I slowly raise up over the willows. And I look back. And that's when I see them. Two big antlers bobbing over the willow tops, coming towards us about 200 yards away. And I turn back to John and as quietly and as loudly as I could, I put both thumbs to my head and made the international moose sign. There's a...

• 43:59Speaker 06

  John turned off the boat. He grabbed his rifle. He was the one with the tag. He grabbed his rifle, put on his ear protection. He walked up and I told him, "Right over here, right over here." So he climbs up and I wait down by the boat.

• 44:15Speaker 06

  And just a little while later, I hear, "Boom!"

• 44:19Speaker 06

  And I run up there. I run up and I said, "John, did you get it?"

• 44:25Speaker 06

  And all he said was, "Yup."

• 44:28Speaker 06

  And at that moment, we raised our hands in the air and we screamed. We were so excited. We were so excited to have caught something. We were screaming. We made our sounds. We do in our calls, "Ooh, ooh." We were so happy. But then we realized the work had just begun.

• 44:50Speaker 06

  You guys know, you know.

• 44:53Speaker 06

  And all that excitement quickly. Okay, here we go. This is where all the glory is.

• 45:02Speaker 06

  Carrying that meat back to the boat. So we start field dressing. We start cutting our moose. And in just that moment, it starts snowing. And as soon as it starts snowing, the sun came up slowly over the Kobuk Valley. And it was red. And it was making the falling snow look red. And it was beautiful, but at the same time, me and John knew that red sky meant there was a big storm coming.

• 45:32Speaker 06

  So now we got a ticking clock. We got to get this moose out of here.

• 45:38Speaker 06

  So we cut it. We're going, we're doing our thing. And we hear a boat pull up on the river. We say, "Oh." And then we see three guys walking towards us. And we say, "Oh, here's the troopers. Here's the game warden." No, it wasn't. Turns out, the guy who called on the CB radio and told John that he was a father from the near... He was in the nearby village about an hour and a half away.

• 46:00Speaker 06

  And he brought two young men, strong young men with him, to help carry our meat.

• 46:07Speaker 06

  That's the Alaskan way.

• 46:10Speaker 06

  And it was the best feeling, the best feeling, to see that they came to help. And I said, "Oh, thank God."

• 46:20Speaker 06

  And we do, we start doing our thing, we start butchering and we, we, we have so much respect and reverence for this animal. We have all just, we have very, the fanciest game bags from Bass Pro Shop.

• 46:35Speaker 06

  Brand new tarps, everything, brand new. We take care of the meat, there's not one leaf, one little piece of dirt, no, nothing on it. We get all, we, these guys help us get all the meat back into the boat.

• 46:50Speaker 06

  And then they follow us back to our camp, to help us break down our camp.

• 46:57Speaker 06

  And in return, we gave them our, we gave them gas.

• 47:02Speaker 06

  And they were very excited for this gas because that meant they were able to go by to the other village farther down, because there was a very high stakes poker game that they wanted in on.

• 47:16Speaker 06

  So this gas meant a chance.

• 47:20Speaker 06

  And off they went.

• 47:24Speaker 06

  And so, with about three hours of daylight left, we knew we had to make a three and a half hour boat ride back to Cotsaboo, with a storm behind us and the setting sun in front of us.

• 47:40Speaker 06

  So we take off, we get going, full boat, and we put the moose head right in the front. And we do that where I'm from because the story is the moose gives itself to us because it, it wants to see, it wants to go for a ride, it wants to see the ocean.

• 47:57Speaker 06

  So we put it in the front. And we slowly make our way back. Actually, we weren't going slow, we were, we were going as fast as we could, uh, we were going pretty quick.

• 48:09Speaker 06

  Three and a half hours is a lot of time to think.

• 48:14Speaker 06

  And I start thinking about

• 48:18Speaker 06

  how a human life was just born and how an animal life was just taken and how many, I wonder how many times that's ever happened on this river. Where two friends have gone out and risked it to bring back meat for their family.

• 48:34Speaker 06

  I think about

• 48:37Speaker 06

  the elders and how they say how the struggle makes them feel fulfilled.

• 48:44Speaker 06

  And in that moment, with every muscle sore, I feel fulfilled.

• 48:51Speaker 06

  I feel a sense of belonging to the land.

• 48:58Speaker 06

  And as we make our way back to Kotsebu, we turn the last bend

• 49:04Speaker 06

  right as the sun is going down and the city lights are reflecting off of the water, leading us home. And as soon as I get cell signal, I text my family back in Anchorage. And I tell them, sharpen your knives and ulus.

• 49:18Speaker 06

  Thank you.

• 49:31Speaker 00

  That was James Damick Jr. James spends his time fishing, writing, playing music, and he says he's been in full-time dad mode recently. James still hunts moose once a year. A moose can weigh 1,000 pounds, and he says one moose feeds six families all winter long. With the meat, he makes burgers, slow-cooked roasts, lots of stews, bone broth, and gravy for his family. Here's James again.

• 49:59Speaker 06

  This year, we went out again. And it rained, and it was windy, and it was cold, and we saw nothing but cows. We were at the same camp spot we were at last year when I told this story.

• 50:12Speaker 06

  And my buddy looked at me. He said, you want to check our lucky spot?

• 50:18Speaker 06

  And I climbed back up there, just like I did on the first story, and there it was. A young, fat bull, big rack, standing broadside towards us. We got the moose this year, not even 20 feet from the one we got last year, in the same meadow. What are the odds? Alaska's so big. This year, as soon as we got the one this year, a rainbow, bright, big rainbow, went from the sky right to where our campsite was. And we were like, whoa, and it started getting feeling real spiritual out there. Because in the moth story I told last year, three young men came and helped us carry the meat away.

• 51:02Speaker 06

  Well, one of those young men passed away this year. When I saw that rainbow, we said, maybe that's Brandon. We got our boat loaded up, and we left in the dark, putt-putting down the river. Full moon. Northern lights came out. They started dancing everywhere. And we made our way back, and I had moose chili last night. It was good. It was a good time. It was delicious. And after you eat, you tell stories.

• 51:35Speaker 00

  That was James Damick Jr. If you've had your own rite of passage, consider telling your story at The Moth. We want to hear from you. That's it for this episode of The Moth Radio Hour. We hope you'll join us next time.

• 52:04Speaker 03

  This episode of The Moth Radio Hour was produced by me, Jay Allison, and Sarah Austin Janess, who also hosted and directed the stories in the show. Co-producer is Vicky Merrick, associate producer Emily Couch. The rest of The Moth's leadership team includes Sarah Haberman, Christina Norman, Jennifer Hickson, Meg Bowles, Kate Tellers, Marina Cluchet, Leanne Gully, Suzanne Rust. Sarah Jane Johnson and Aldi Kozma. You can find the extended interview with James Delmac Jr. and extras related to all of these stories at themoth.org. Special thanks to the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation for their support of The Moth's Global Community Program. Most stories are true as remembered and affirmed by the storytellers.

• 52:49Speaker 03

  Our theme music is by The Drift. Other music in this hour from Carol Burnett, George Brandl-Eglow, Sonny Rollins, and Bruce Coburn. We receive funding from the National Endowment for the Arts. The Moth Radio Hour is produced by Atlantic Public Media in Woods Hole, Massachusetts. Special thanks to our friends at Odyssey, including executive producer Leah Reese Dennis. For more about our podcast, for information on pitching us, your own story, and everything else, go to our website, themoth.org.

• 53:23Speaker 04

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