Pod Insights The Moth Soundtrack to Your Life: The Moth Radio Hour About this episode In this hour, stories of how music moves us. Guitar lessons, band geeks, and record deals. This episode is hosted by Moth Director Chloe Salmon. The Moth Radio Hour is produced by The Moth and Jay Allison of Atlantic Public Media.
Storytellers:
Alistair Bane learns to play the guitar from a punk musician.
Hanif Abdurraqib finds solace in his hometown mall the summer after a family tragedy.
KB Brookins competes to become drum major of their high school's marching band.
Musician Rissi Palmer is offered a life-changing opportunity on her journey to become a country music star.
Podcast # 975
Transcript 0:13 Speaker 00 This is The Moth Radio Hour. I'm your host, Chloe Salmon. When my dad was in engineering school in England, he supported himself by taking on DJing gigs. He played weddings, events, parties, you name it. Over the years, he amassed a collection of almost 7,000 records, his prized possessions. When he graduated and got a job in the US, he had to leave almost all of them behind. But he started another collection that combined the few records he was able to bring with him with ones he picked up in his new life. Some nights, I'd be in my room and would suddenly hear music blasting from the record player in the basement.
0:56 Speaker 00 That was the signal for all of us, myself, my brothers, and my mom, to come running. And then, the dance party would begin. On those nights, my dad was our DJ. At the end of each tune, he'd stop dancing and pick the next one. And somehow, it was always the perfect song. In this episode, stories of music and how it moves us and grooves us through life. Our first story comes from Alastair Bain, who told it at a Story Slam in Denver, where
1:38 Speaker 00 we partner with public radio station KUNC. Here's Alastair, live at The Moth.
1:47 Speaker 01 So, like a lot of queer kids in the 80s, I ended up on my own, pretty young. And there were some harsh parts to that, but there were some awesome parts. Like that Wednesday, when me and my best friend Candy were in a dive bar in New York, seeing 10 local bands for a dollar. Thanks to our new fake IDs. I was a little bit worried about mine. It said I was a 40-year-old white man named Norman Schwartz.
2:18 Speaker 01 But this was a kind of bar where it was like, eh, we're all human.
2:24 Speaker 01 When the fourth band came on, the singer was like the second coolest person in the world next to David Bowie. And the awesome part was the whole set. He kept looking right at me and Candy. Now, because of our height difference, it's hard to tell if he was staring at her breast or my face.
2:47 Speaker 01 But when the set finished, he came to talk to us, it was my face he was liking. He ended up writing his name and number on my arm, and he said, "I wrote that in Sharpie, so you can't forget to call me." And Brandy was like, "That's the most romantic thing, I think you guys are soulmates."
3:09 Speaker 01 So the next week, I met him in a different dive bar, and we started talking, and this bar was having a drink special. Twenty-five cent shots of peppermint schnapps.
3:22 Speaker 01 I didn't know.
3:28 Speaker 01 I had been on the street enough to be experienced in a lot of things, but peppermint schnapps, not so much. But Danny, the singer, ordered a dollar's worth, so I was like, "Okay, we're about the same weight, sure." I ordered a dollar's worth. We kept talking, and then this thing happened, where the peppermint schnapps hit my skeletal system.
3:52 Speaker 01 And it turned my bones into pudding.
3:57 Speaker 01 And I fell on the floor like in this big person puddle. I remember like Danny saying, "Are you okay?", being in a cab, maybe crawling on stairs. And then it was morning, and I woke up, still fully clothed, in a big fluffy bed that weirdly smelled like Estee Lauder perfume. And I looked to see if Danny was there, but instead it was a seventy-year-old woman. And she was like, "Oh, you're awake, sweetie. I'm Danny's grandma. He was so worried that you might choke on your own vomit in the night, that he asked me to watch over you."
4:38 Speaker 01 And I was like, "This is not punk rock. I gotta get out of here."
4:43 Speaker 01 So I found my shoes. I'm like, "Okay, thanks." I ask a bolt for the door. But when I opened the door into the main room of the apartment, there's Danny, drinking coffee. He goes, "Good morning, Norman."
4:58 Speaker 01 My fake IDs sitting right on the table in front of him. I sit there, he pours me a cup of coffee, and he says, "Ah, you know, it's really not cool you lied about your age." And I kinda nodded. He said, "And you know, you were like, passed out drunk, and not every guy would be, you know, like, decent about that." And he was being so nice that somehow it just embarrassed me more and pissed me off. And I was like, "I'm not some stupid baby you have to protect in lecture. I know people aren't decent. I've been knowing people aren't decent since I was 12, and you could've done whatever you wanted to me because it wouldn't matter. You'd just be one more jerk in the world, and I'm nothing."
5:42 Speaker 01 I didn't mean that, like, just to sound punk rock somewhere, there's some truth in it. And he saw it, and I saw his face, and then I just burst into these big, ugly, so unDavid Bowie, so uncool sobs.
5:59 Speaker 01 And I was sitting there crying, trying to get my other shoe on, and I heard him say, "You know what you're not to him for? Do you wanna learn to play guitar?" I was like, "What?" He said, "I don't know, like, I always thought if I had a little brother, I could teach him to play guitar." And so over the next year, I'd go over to their apartment, hang out with him and his grandma, learn chords.
6:30 Speaker 01 And while the rest of my life had a lot of chaos in it, that was this one like beautiful place where there was this friend that really respected me and liked me just for me. He moved to L.A. the next year and we kept in touch by letters. But during those days of no internets, no cellphones, it was easy to eventually lose touch. The last letter I got from him was when I was 24, I'd written to him to say I'd gone to rehab, I had three months clean, and I really saw a future for myself. He wrote back and the last paragraph of the letter, he said, "I hope you're proud of
7:10 Speaker 01 yourself, I hope you make sure that the people in your life value you, and I hope you still play guitar." And yeah, Danny, yes to all three of those. Thank you.
7:30 Speaker 00 That was Alistair Bain. He lives in Denver, Colorado, and in addition to telling stories, he's a visual artist, quilter, and clothing designer. In his spare time, he rehabilitates feral dogs from the reservation, which he says is a much more relaxing hobby than it might sound, as long as you don't mind a tiny bit of growling. He says that he met so many good friends, like Danny, through a shared love of goth and punk bands. The music scene was a place where he finally felt like he fit in and was appreciated for being himself.
8:12 Speaker 00 Our next story was told by Hanif Abdurraqib at a main stage in Grand Rapids, Michigan, where we were presented by Michigan Public. Here's Hanif.
8:26 Speaker 02 So I grew up on the east side of Columbus, Ohio. And if you were a teenager in the 90s, on the east side of Columbus, Ohio, the place to be was Eastland Mall. This was specifically true in the summertime. And for me, in the summer of 1997, it was an especially unique, massive summer because it was a summer between middle school and high school. What this meant was a couple of things, but the most primary thing was that my friends, who I had gone through middle school with, we were all kind of scattering Tahiti schools all around the city. So we weren't going to have that kind of affection driven by proximity that we'd been sheltered with for our sixth, seventh, and eighth grade years.
9:07 Speaker 02 And so, the plan was, we were going to have one last joyful, freeing summer together at the mall almost every single day. The best way to get to the mall from where I lived was to take the number 92 bus, but the better way to get to the mall from where I lived was to sneak onto the number 92 bus, which you could do if someone in your party had a little bit of change in their pocket that they could fumble with while talking to the driver at the front door, so that everyone who was with them could sneak onto the back door while the driver was distracting. And this was vital for us, because we were from poor, working-class neighborhoods and our parents would leave us alone for the bulk of the days.
9:48 Speaker 02 And so, the mall effectively became a kind of parent to us. And so, the bus would drop you off at the front door, and then you would walk straight to the food court, of course. The food court, which, at least at that time in my life, also operated as a kind of medieval court as well. The things most commonly on trial there were the blossoming or dying out of crushes, or scores from a couple of days ago that needed to be settled in front of the Sabaros or whatnot. So, for example, if I had maybe gotten a little bit too exuberant in my trash talk on the basketball court on Friday, right before the streetlights came on, I knew that on Saturday, I would have to answer for that in some capacity or the other.
10:30 Speaker 02 This was also kind of the place where the mall, it was the beating heart of the mall. So, you know, the stores that surrounded it were the coolest stores, the Foot Locker's, or the Claire's, or the Champ Sports. But it was also kind of the place where we went to be our freest, most joyful versions of ourselves. If you had like a dollar, you'd get a slice of pizza, and a cup that you said was for water, but you could fill with something else.
10:57 Speaker 02 The real and most ideal versions of adolescence that I loved are the parts of it where new freedoms are introduced, and maybe some other ones are taken away. And for me, at thirteen years old, the highest point of freedom was going to high school. Because I'm the youngest of four, so I had three older siblings, so I'd already watched take that joyous journey through the halls of high schools and come home like new people. And so I thought that for me, it was going to be this really glorious summer, followed by a fall of like clandestine phone calls with girls, and staying out super late, and having cool friends who smoked secretly, and all these kind of things. As long as I got through this nearly perfect summer. But in the beginning of June, in the first couple of weeks,
11:40 Speaker 02 my mother died unexpectedly and suddenly. And it's hard to perhaps explain what happens next to someone who is not from a very intensely caring area, or a neighborhood that's focused on community care. But my house became kind of flooded with people. It was this real claustrophobic moment that even in my gratitude for the presence of others, I was still feeling really closed in by the grief. People would come and bring meals three times a day. And people would ask me how I was doing when I was walking on the street. And the shopkeeper at the corner store would give me free candy, which was cool at first, but then it became a little less cool. Then it became kind of embarrassing.
12:22 Speaker 02 As a teenager, I wanted nothing more than to kind of vanish. I was very content being a supporting cast member in the film of my own life. When you lose a parent, however, you kind of become the kid with a dead mom and then nothing else. There's no way to kind of sink into anonymity beyond that. You're kind of drifting from one moment of darkness to another moment of darkness, seeking a light through which you can reformat yourself. The mall was really useful in this way. Because no one really asked about or cared about my dead mother at the mall. Not because they were cruel, but because no one really went to the mall seeking heartbreak. Or no one went to the mall to feel pain.
13:05 Speaker 02 Heartbreak and pain happened at the mall, of course. Breakups occurred, or a shoe you wanted sold out before you could get to it. But no one really arrived at the mall seeking pain. And specifically, no one could ever focus on one single person. Because the mall, in the ecosystem of it, it was pulled forward by a focus on the collective. And so spending too much time on one person's woes, or pleasures, or whatever else, stopped you from doing the things you would normally do at the mall. Talk to girls, try to get girl's phone numbers. In my case, trying to get girl's phone numbers, unfortunately using my mother's death as a tool to get in, but it didn't, never really worked that way. I hope I'm forgiven.
13:49 Speaker 02 And this was a real respite for me. Because at home, it was very silent. In the weeks and months after my mother died, my mother was a very loud woman. So she laughed loudly, she moved around the house loudly. Her sounds kind of announced her presence before she entered a room. And in the moments after she died, my house kind of grew increasingly silent until the echoes of those things faded away completely. But in the mall, it was just loud all the time. There was a cacophony of sounds. My friends and I would sit on tables and like bang out beats on the wooden tables and then stomp our feet on the chairs to kind of make a little symphony. And then the security guard would sometimes come over, and he would try to rap along to the beat we were making.
14:31 Speaker 02 And then the raps would always be bad, and then you'd get to make fun of him, and he would sulk away. And my favorite place in the mall, there was a balcony above the food court where you could have a perfect vantage point of not only the food court itself, but all those cool surrounding stores. And in the mall's busiest days, which usually were in mid-July, you could just watch like a sitcom unfold. It was, for me, like sinking back into being that supporting character in the movie of my own life. But summer comes to an end, and I specifically dislike the feeling of summer coming to an end. Even now, I grumble as August kind of turns over into like that, those awful, slow, long, hot days.
15:14 Speaker 02 But as a teenager, specifically in 1997, I really hated this feeling because it was so visceral. The signs for back to school were kind of coming up. My friends were vanishing to do back to school shopping, and I was often alone wandering the mall, which is less romantic when you are doing it alone, to be sure. But another thing that happened within me was that I was no longer excited about going to high school. It no longer felt like a freeing thing to me because in those first couple of weeks of August, my house had started to get flooded with letters and phone calls. Administrators and teachers and counselors at my new high school were calling to ask what they could do, how they could help. They had all heard my mother died, and they were wondering how they could make my first year at high school feel a lot more peaceful.
15:57 Speaker 02 This was well-meaning, as well-meaning as people being, bringing casseroles and whatnot to my house. But it was also a reminder that I was getting ready to enter a space wherein I would be the kid with the dead mom for four more years of my life and nothing else. And so, towards the end of summer, I used to think that when the mall closed, if I just stayed really quiet and found a corner, I could maybe live there forever. This, of course, could have never worked, but when you're a kid, you know, you're thinking, I could find a really quiet space and no one will know I'm here. In late August, maybe a week or so before school started, there was this day that was very hot, and it was also very gray.
16:39 Speaker 02 In Columbus, there's these storms that happen in the summer that are really quick, maybe five, 10 minutes, but also really violent. And the aftermath of them has these effects that last for hours or sometimes even days. And this was one of those days. And the mall was half-full because the people were getting ready to go back to school, but I was in my spot, the balcony above the food court, with my one slice of pizza in my cup that should have had water in it, but definitely had Sprite. And I was just watching these small movements unfold, and...
17:09 Speaker 02 Then the blackout happened, and it didn't happen all at once. I remember a light above my head flickered and then went off. And as I was gathering myself, figuring out what happened, all the lights in a row began to flick off in the mall. And because this was a mall in a poor area, and people in it were working in a poor area, we were all like, "Well, you know, lights go out all the time. Bills don't get paid, we get it." And so what happened was this really calm moment where a Foot Locker employee went in the back and grabbed a flashlight. And a couple other employees of other stores followed suit, like the CD store guy and the Claire's employee. So there's these flashlights waving around in the darkness. And then someone says, "Oh, I got batteries for a boombox." And then someone gets a boombox, and then the batteries go in the boombox. And then someone says, "I have CDs in my car."
17:53 Speaker 02 And so someone follows another someone out the door to go to the parking lot, which by that point is soaked by the torrential storm. And they reemerge in the mall with a book of CDs tucked underneath one of their shirts. The CD book thankfully, mercifully dry. They less so. For their sacrifice, they were granted these really massive jerseys from the Jersey store. This was 1997 after all. And the flashlights were put in a little circle at the center of the mall. And so maybe five or six flashlights were all beaming up into the same spot. And it was this one magnificent light that looked like it might break through the ceiling itself and signal outward to let people know that we were in here and alive.
18:37 Speaker 02 And someone put on some music, and a dance party started. A very impromptu, small dance party of 20 to 30 people, folks who worked on the second floor of the mall running down the non-working escalators very gingerly to join the dance circle. And me alone up in my balcony, where no one knew I was or no one could see me. I'd found my perfect hiding spot. And I watched this dance party slowly unfold, and I watched the light push itself into the ceiling. And it was a wonderful reminder that as we kind of moved through these series of darknesses, there is a light pushing us up higher, wherein we can reform ourselves and become better than we were before. And I remember the rain stopped, and I walked back to the bus stop. And I still did not want to go to high school, to be clear. But I knew that when I did go to high school,
19:22 Speaker 02 I had a blueprint for how to make myself a newer, better survivor of a thing. Thank you.
19:36 Speaker 00 That was Hanif Abdurraqib. He's a writer from the east side of Columbus, Ohio. I could see why the respite the mall provided made such an impression on Hanif during a turbulent time in his life. When we first started talking about what would eventually become this story, Hanif came to the table with the idea of a love letter to his hometown mall. I think he succeeded.
20:03 Speaker 00 In a moment, a teenager battles to become their high school marching band's drum major.
20:15 Speaker 03 The Moth Radio Hour is produced by Atlantic Public Media in Woods Hole, Massachusetts.
20:26 Speaker 00 This is The Moth Radio Hour from PRX. I'm Chloe Salmon. In this episode, stories of music. Next up is KB Brookins, who brings us to a proving ground for many teenagers: high school marching band. They shared this story at a main stage in Iowa City where we were presented by the Engler Theater. Here's KB.
20:51 Speaker 04 At 17, I wanted to be famous. All the bright lights and reverence, all the world's eyes on me. I wanted to be so exceptional that when you were in my presence, you felt blessed, bedazzled, happy. So really, I wanted everyone to like me, and I'd do anything because of it. By 17, I was known as the weird lesbian band geek, so I desperately needed to change if I was to have a shot at fame. The summer before my senior year, I made a list of ways I could become popular: inventing something, smoking weed, lying and saying I was a celebrity's bastard child.
21:36 Speaker 04 Eventually, I landed on something reasonable. I was in marching band and tryouts had just opened for drum major. And to be drum major at my high school was to be top of the food chain of all the arts programs. Drum majors were leaders. They were second in command to the band director and the center of every formation that the band and the cheerleaders and the dancers and everyone looked toward as those Friday night lights flashed down. So why not try it? In June of 2012, I alongside three hopefuls became a drum major candidate, or DMC.
22:13 Speaker 04 When I declared my candidacy, my band director was surprised. Mr. P was not the biggest fan of mine because I was in charge of the drum line and the drum line was known for lollygagging. In our defense, the band director had a monotone voice.
22:31 Speaker 04 But his disdain toward me felt rooted in something else, though. For example, when I brought my girlfriend to the band hall, he'd say, "That's forbidden", though boys brought their girls in all the time. I could never please him, so I thought that by earning my spot as drum major, I'd finally please the both of us. And then on to my competition. So, there were three spots available and two out of three were for shoe-ins. So my actual competition was Tyrone, the dancer. He was the best dancer in school and I was the biggest and the only girl and Mr. P hated me. So I had a lot to prove. In three months, I had years' worth of growing to do.
23:17 Speaker 04 So then we go to band camp. My 5:30 a.m. alarm clock hit me like a truck. I had never been up that early, let alone that early to go work out. It was 6 a.m. and all the DMCs had to be at the band hall at 6 a.m. to work out before the rest of the band got there. I remember we had to do our push-ups in unison and do this silly little chant that went like this. "I like it, I love it, I want more of it. Make it hurt, drum majors make it hurt." Cringe.
23:56 Speaker 04 It was bad. So, as you can imagine, I was exhausted. That was one push-up, by the way.
24:06 Speaker 04 And at 7:00 a.m., the band members started trickling in, and I already heard them whispering about us DMCs. Jermaine can do it, he's the most ripped teenager ever. KD, he's a band favorite. Tyrone danced better than everybody. Nobody was betting on me. Nobody saw it for the queer reject, so I gained a chip on my shoulder. I told myself that whole day, even if you want to quit, don't. So I worked out from 6:00 a.m. to 4:00 p.m. I taught the drum line new cadences. I did drum major twirls and worked out some more. I got right next to people who were ready to give up on their exercises, the same people that were counting me out, and told them, "You got this."
24:52 Speaker 04 At 4:00 p.m., all of us DMCs were told that we had to make up a dance for our first halftime routine. Though we were each other's competition, we had to do this together. So the only person that delighted in this task naturally was Tyrone the dancer. And we were all exhausted, so we kind of just let him make up the whole thing. At 4:55, all of us DMCs got into a huddle with Mr. P., and he showed us this dance. Two minutes, he had multiple flips and twirls and two instances where we had to do the split and come right back up within two seconds. Abnormal.
25:32 Speaker 04 And before any of us could protest, Mr. P. was like, "Great, I love it, let's do it." I was flabbergasted. Who did he think we were? Backup dancers for Bobby Brown? Regardless, we learned the dance, and by the end of that summer, we moved as if we were mirrors of each other. Like, all of it was muscle memory. In that same timeframe, I went from clown to serious, out of shape to able to run a mile, two left feet to maybe being able to keep up with 80's Bobby Brown.
26:06 Speaker 04 Day after day, less and less people, including Mr. P., could count me out. And then came game day. After our first game, it was known that the three drum majors would be chosen. And from the time that school started to the time that we got out from the game, everyone was comparing me and Tyrone. On paper, TBH, this was an easy decision. I proved myself able to grow, and Tyrone was very convinced that all he had to do was dance. I killed it on the field, all my high kicks and dances. But both of us were asked to stay back by Mr. P. after the game. "I want to see each of you dance," he said. And we worked.
26:50 Speaker 04 We exercised for thirty minutes straight, no breaks and no looking at each other. And then after that, we did our dance routine three times in a row on separate corners of the band hall. After the first routine, I gave myself carpet burn on that like coarse spit-filled band carpet. Still, I continued. After the second time, I heard like a crack when I did the split. But still, I persisted. After the third time, I was honestly surprised that I even got enough from the split. Sweat was coating all of my clothes. I asked simply, "Why are we doing this? Why don't you grade us on knowledge or ability to lead?"
27:34 Speaker 04 And it was frowned upon to ever question Mr. P. "If you can't do this, then let me know. Both of y'all, forty more push-ups," he said. So then we got to bobbing our heads up and down and doing our chant in unison. "I like it, I love it, I want more of it, make it hurt, drum majors, make it hurt."
27:58 Speaker 04 Then we did the dance routine again, and it sounded like the score of a scary movie at this point. And when I got down to do the split, I heard my own body thump against the ground so hollow, so hard, so at the end of its whims.
28:14 Speaker 04 I stayed down for a beat and all I could hear was my own heartbeat ringing in my ears. "This is what happens when you're out of shape," said Mr. P. Though he was like two of me, not a small man. Regardless, I showed that whole summer that size does not equal fitness. Anybody would be exhausted after multiple rounds of this. He asked me if I could continue and I tried to catch my breath to say yes, but I guess I took too long because he quickly crowned Tyrone the third spot for a drum major. All of a sudden, I saw nothing but white. To my left were three drum major outfits waiting on people to fill them.
28:57 Speaker 04 To my right were the white tips of drumsticks. Up top was a white popcorn ceiling where I looked as tears newly streamed down my face. I left the band hall and everyone knew what my somber demeanor meant. Devastation colored my face as I got in the car with my mom and she hugged me in silent recognition.
29:20 Speaker 04 So after that, I took a break from band just to make sense of everything that had happened. Why did I not get picked? Why was I never good enough for Mr. P? Why did I spend my whole senior summer on this fruitless endeavor? So after crying for six days straight, playing a godless amount of Frank Ocean,
29:41 Speaker 04 I came to the realization that I never would have been picked for a drum major. Tyrone being picked over me had less to do with my ability to dance, lead, or work out, and more to do with who I was. If I would have gotten it, I would have been the first queer, first girl, first big drum major within a 500-mile radius. Nobody was ready for that. So Mr. P intentionally pushed me until I almost collapsed. And after the legally appropriate amount of soaking, I ended up going back to band. All of my friends were there and regardless of what Mr. P might say, I knew eventually I'd be a winner. So no, I didn't become the drum major of my high school band,
30:26 Speaker 04 but I did, seven months after that big and public rejection, get a scholarship to college where I learned that I was not a weird... Thank you.
30:42 Speaker 04 I learned in college that I was not a weird lesbian band geek. Instead, I was a trans writer. I persisted and I got connected with people who see the value in the things that I contribute. And even today, I keep going because I want the next KB who dares to want to be famous. Or in more honest terms, to want to be seen. To know that I have them. To know that there are people ready to celebrate their gifts. And in the end, I'm glad I waited on the acceptance that was waiting on me. I am my own drum major, twirling and spitting and split, well, I'm not splitting. Thirty, I can't do that no more.
31:24 Speaker 04 But I am crouching down next to myself on days that feel as hard as those days in band camp. And telling myself happily, "You got this." Thank you.
31:41 Speaker 00 KB Brookins is the author of three books, including Pretty, winner of the Lambda Literary Award in transgender nonfiction. I asked KB if there was a specific song from Channel Orange that felt like an anthem for that time in their life. They said that "Super Rich Kids" was a standout. You can find out more about their books and how to keep up with them at themoth.org. Up next, a woman sets her sights on country music stardom. When The Moth Radio Hour continues.
32:21 Speaker 03 The Moth Radio Hour is produced by Atlantic Public Media in Woods Hole, Massachusetts.
32:28 Speaker 00 Buy smart, drive for less, and trade for more. That's Toyota affordability, and it all starts with a great deal from your local Toyota dealer. Make a smart buy on an all-wheel-drive Camry, Corolla Cross, or get a Corolla sedan, packed with the latest features, advanced tech, and head-turning style. Take a test drive in two of Toyota's most popular SUVs, the spacious, family-friendly Grand Highlander and Adventure. Ready RAV4 and with so many hybrid and plug-in hybrid models available across the lineup, plus efficient all electrics like the BZ, BZ Woodland and all-wheel-drive CHR, you can drive your way and skip the pump. And long after you leave the lot, your Toyota keeps delivering with legendary resale value, built on a reputation for quality and reliability. So when it's time for your next Toyota, you could trade in for more. From a great
33:12 Speaker 00 deal today to a great value tomorrow, a Toyota is right for you. Shop toyota.com for deals and details, or stop by your local Toyota dealer today. Toyota, let's go places. This is the Moth Radio Hour. I'm Chloe Salmon. Our final story takes us to the world of country music. Reecey Palmer told it at a main stage at the Auditorium Theater in Chicago, where we were presented by public radio station WBEZ. Here's Reecey, live at the Moth.
33:45 Speaker 05 I just want to grab it. Okay. I have loved country music my entire life. Every Saturday when I was a little girl, my mom and I would clean our house, listening to Patsy Cline, Dolly Parton, Kenny Rogers, as well as Aretha Franklin, Chaka Khan and Whitney Houston, because we're black. It was the stories that I fell in love with. These stories reminded me of times where I spent with my family in Georgia. They reminded me of church. And after my mother passed away when I was seven, it reminded me of her. And so when I was four years old, I decided that I was going to make my own country songs. And so with
34:30 Speaker 05 my Fisher-Price tape player and a pack of cassettes, I set out to make my first album. And after that, I was hooked. When I turned 17, I signed with my first managers, who were both black women as well. And at 19, I signed my first publishing deal in Nashville. And I just knew that I was going to be the first black superstar of country music, the first black female country star of country music. And so my very first meeting that I ever had in Nashville. Was sight unseen. You see, the producer thought that it would be a good idea for them to go into the, to
35:11 Speaker 05 the office and play the music without them seeing a picture of me. Because they wanted an honest, unbiased opinion of the music. And so, there I was, sitting in a chair outside of the office, and everyone's walked by me just completely oblivious to the fact that I was there. And I could hear everything that was going on in the office. "Oh, what a beautiful voice. Oh, I love these songs." I get ready to go in the office, chaos ensues. "When are we gonna find songs for someone like her? How are we gonna find an audience for someone like her?" This is the way it went for years in Nashville.
35:55 Speaker 05 I met with every major label in town. Everybody was super curious, sort of interested, but nobody wanted to take the leap. And for a while, I started to feel like it was my fault. And so, my managers and I decided that we needed to find other ways to get my name out there. And so, I used to sing commercials for like Barbie and things like that. And then, I would busk. And then finally, I would do a little modeling on the side sometimes. And a casting director saw my picture and thought that I would be perfect for a Philly cream cheese commercial. And so, I packed my bags and my guitar, and we were flying to LA.
36:40 Speaker 05 So, at the time, I lived in Atlanta. And anybody that's ever been to Atlanta, and if you've ever been to Hartsville-Jackson International Airport, it's basically the club. There are celebrities and athletes just walking around with impunity, and so a bonnet and sweatpants was absolutely not gonna do. And so, just imagine little twenty-year-old me, in my little mini-dress, and my knee-high boots, face beat for the gods. And so, I had my guitar on my back, and I had a bunch of CDs in my back pocket. And I'm walking down the concourse, and I see, out of the corner of my eye, a man impeccably dressed in a beautiful suit,
37:25 Speaker 05 with a fedora and a pair of sunglasses. And I immediately knew who he was. It was Terry Lewis of Terry Lewis and Jimmy Jam, AKA Flight Time. The people that brought us Janet Jackson, Human League, worked with Prince. And I said to myself, "Ricey, girl, this is your moment." But I had to be cool. And so, I'm walking, and I just smile and nod, and I keep going. And I hear a voice say, "Excuse me, you play that thing?" Why, yes, I do.
37:58 Speaker 05 "What's your name? What kind of music do you play?" "My name is Ricey Palmer, and I'm a country singer." He pauses and pushes the sunglasses down on his nose, and he says, "You are a country singer." And I said, "Yes, sir." "Here's a CD."
38:13 Speaker 05 And he takes the CD, and he looks at it, and he goes, "Huh, country. Okay, I'm gonna listen to this." "Nice to meet you, Ricey Palmer." And I said, "Nice to meet you, Terry Lewis." And he goes his way, and I go mine. By the time we landed in Los Angeles, there was a voice message from his assistant. He listened to the CD, loved it, and wanted to have a meeting. So he set the meeting up two days after my audition. So, in the meeting, I walk in, and he's just as cool and charismatic and just nice as he seems on TV. The music nerd in him recognized the music nerd in me. And so, we talked about artists. We talked about songs that we loved.
38:56 Speaker 05 We talked about people that they worked with. He loved the fact that I loved country music, that I knew the artists, I knew the history, and that I wrote my own songs. It was the first time that I ever was in a meeting that I felt like I wasn't the problem. That I was seen, and that I was understood. And I knew, I said to myself, "Something's gonna come of this." And it did. The next morning, they called me and said they would like to offer me a record deal.
39:31 Speaker 05 So I went home to Atlanta, Philly cream cheeseless. But I had a record deal. And so as soon as I got home, I called everybody that I knew and everybody was so excited, so proud. Y'all, I even went and looked at a Mercedes. Because I just knew I was gonna be rich. I was delusional for about a week. And then, we started the negotiations. And it became extremely clear that although they loved the fact that I loved country music and I wanted to do this and this had been my dream.
40:09 Speaker 05 They saw me more as Janet Jackson, choreography, Abs of Steel, and Les Reese with her guitar.
40:19 Speaker 05 And that was a problem. Because you see, I'd been doing this for so long and I'd been wanting to do this for so long. But, I was also broke. And there were no other record deals on the table for me. And so I had a big dilemma. And I thought about it, and I prayed about it, and I cried about it. But I finally came to the conclusion, I can't take this deal.
40:47 Speaker 05 I remember the day like it was yesterday, me and my manager sitting together on speakerphone with our attorney. He could absolutely not believe that I was not gonna take the deal. "Reese, you realize that there are no other deals like this on the table for you, so if you walk away from this, this may be it."
41:07 Speaker 05 I took a deep breath, and I said, "Yes, I understand that, but I can't take the deal."
41:13 Speaker 05 "Okay." And so we hung up the phone and I immediately burst into tears, not sure if I made the right decision or not. A few minutes later, the phone rang and it was Terry and Jimmy. And they were asking if it was true. And I said, yes, it is true, and I am so grateful for you offering me the deal, but I can't take it. And so they said they understood and wished me well, and that was it. It would be seven years before I signed my first record deal. But I got to put out my first album in 2007, and I became the first black woman in 19
41:54 Speaker 05 years to be on the Billboard Country charts. I also got to play the Grand Ole Opry. I got to talk to Maya Angelou on her radio show. I also received hate mail. I also was told, "Don't bring her to my radio station, because I will never play a black woman." I was also almost escorted off of a stage where a security guard thought that I was trespassing, because I couldn't possibly be the person on the marquee.
42:33 Speaker 05 There were times where my record company was arguing about my hair, or about who my love interest should be in my videos, whether it should be a white man or a black man. I just wanted Reggie Bush. And after a while, I just got tired of fighting. And so after two very amazing years, I decided to walk away, and I left that record deal. I left Nashville. I moved to North Carolina. I got married, and I had babies. I continued to make music independently and perform, and I always wondered in the back of my mind, what would have happened had I signed that deal?
43:17 Speaker 05 And then 2020 happened. Not only was it a pandemic, but it was also a time of racial reckoning, and we were dealing with the deaths of Ahmaud Arbery, Breonna Taylor, and George Floyd. And suddenly, everybody's mind was on justice and equity, and country music was no different. And so I got tired of sitting and seeing all these think pieces that reduced the black contribution to country music to just five artists, when I knew that wasn't true. And so I decided to do something about it, and I started my radio show. Color Me Country Radio with Reese Palmer. It comes on every Saturday on Apple Music.
43:59 Speaker 05 And I decided that this was a place where people could come and have the conversations that I was not allowed to have at the beginning of my career. People come on and talk about what happens to them and what, you know, just honest about how they feel about this music and about their place in this music. And it was in doing the show that I found my voice. I found my purpose.
44:25 Speaker 05 And in 2023, I was nominated and won the Songwriters of North America Warrior Award for my work with Color Me Country and my nonprofit, the Color Me Country Artist Grant Fund, that gives funds to artists of color within country and Americana music. And so, thank you.
44:51 Speaker 05 And so, I decided to take my then 12-year-old daughter, who is not impressed with anything that I do, ever.
45:00 Speaker 05 And when we got to the awards, y'all, it was a star-studded event. Everybody was there, including J.C. Chazé, who I had a very big crush on in NSYNC, and he is still fine. But anyway, we sat down at the table and we started having dinner and just looking around, and I see, out of the corner of my eye, two men impeccably dressed with a fedora and sunglasses. It was Terry and Jimmy. And I looked over and they caught my eye and I caught theirs, and we smiled at each other and nodded and went through the rest of the awards ceremony. So immediately afterwards, I made a beeline with my daughter over to the table, and I
45:45 Speaker 05 tapped Terry on the shoulder, and I said, "We have to stop meeting like this." And he turned around and said, "Girl, we gotta meet like this all the time." And he gave me a big hug, and then Jimmy came over and gave me a big hug, and he said, "Congratulations, we are so proud of you."
46:02 Speaker 05 And I just stopped for a second and I said, "You have no idea how much it means to me that you even still remember me." I said, "I wanted to tell you this, and I've always wanted to tell you this, "but you have no idea what that deal meant to me." "You gave me a deal at a time when I was discouraged and I was doubting myself, "and I wasn't even sure that I should continue to do this." And I said, "And I just want to thank you, even though I didn't take the deal, "thank you for believing in me."
46:34 Speaker 05 Jimmy looked at me and he said, "We think of you as the great one that got away."
46:40 Speaker 05 And he said, "Look at all the things that you have accomplished without taking that deal." He was like, "You couldn't have done it if you had, so you made the right choice." I hugged them and we said our goodbyes, "and my daughter and I went back up to our hotel room in silence." Every once in a while she would just look over at me,
47:02 Speaker 05 "and I'd look at her and I'm like, 'What?'" And she goes, "They really offered you a record deal?"
47:12 Speaker 05 "Yes, baby, they did." "And you didn't take it?"
47:18 Speaker 05 "No, baby, I didn't." "Do you know how rich we could be right now?"
47:26 Speaker 05 I didn't have the heart to tell her that if I was rich, "that I would be childless and living on an island with Lenny Kravitz."
47:38 Speaker 05 But I did the mother thing, "and I said, 'Yes, baby, I have considered what our life would be, "and I would still choose this one.'" "Thank you so much."
47:59 Speaker 00 That was Reese Palmer. She lives in Durham, North Carolina, and says she's many things in addition to being a singer-songwriter, including child of God, Grace and Nova's mom, maker of sandwiches, proud Durhamite, and a lover of shoes. And Lenny Kravitz. She also runs the Color Me Country Foundation, a nonprofit that gives grants to artists of color in country, Americana, and roots music. I'll be honest. When I started working on this story with Reese, I was surprised to learn about the rich tradition of Black people in country music. Where I grew up, country music was big. And the message I took from it was that it didn't look like me and it wasn't for me. I should have known that wasn't the whole story.
48:43 Speaker 00 And I'm glad to have learned otherwise from Reese and her show, Color Me Country. When I asked her what she'd say to me and other Black folks and people of color who think the genre isn't for them, she said, "Don't let the decades-long branding fool you. This music belongs to us as much as it belongs to anyone else. We don't have to be beholden to anyone else's criteria for what country is. We are inherently baked into the standard." On that note, Reese's pick for a song that could be the soundtrack to her story, one of her own, still here. Here's a bit for you to listen to.
49:39 Speaker 00 That's it for this episode of The Moth Radio Hour. Thank you to our storytellers for sharing with us and to you for listening. We hope you'll join us next time and I hope you find the perfect soundtrack for whatever this week brings you.
50:07 Speaker 03 This episode of The Moth Radio Hour was produced by me, Jay Allison, and Chloe Salmon, who also hosted and directed the stories in the show. Co-producer is Vicky Merrick, associate producer Emily Couch. The Moth's leadership team includes Sarah Haberman, Christina Norman, Marina Kluch, Sarah Austin Jenness, Jennifer Hickson, Jordan Cardinale, Caledonia Cairns, Kate Tellers, Suzanne Rust, Sarah Jane Johnson, and Patricia Uraina. Moth stories are true, as remembered and affirmed by the storytellers. Our theme music is by The Drift. Other music in this hour is from Epidemic Sound and Reecey Palmer. Podcast music, production support from Davey Sumner. The Moth Radio Hour is produced
50:49 Speaker 03 by Atlantic Public Media in Woods Hole, Massachusetts. Special thanks to our friends at Odyssey, including executive producer Leah Reese Dennis. For more about our podcast, for information on pitching us your own story, and to learn all about The Moth, go to our website, themoth.org.
Previous Seen and Unseen: The Moth Podcast Next Introducing Family Lore Page updated October 30, 2026 · transcript and summary are machine-generated