High Wire: The Moth Radio Hour

In this hour, stories of leaps of faith, taking risks, and joining the circus. This episode is hosted by Moth Senior Curatorial Producer, Suzanne Rust. The Moth Radio Hour is produced by The Moth and Jay Allison of Atlantic Public Media. Storytellers: Tiffany McKinney finds an unconventional way to deal with her grief. Dave Lara reflects on being a gay man in the Navy during the Vietnam War. Martha McBrier goes to great heights for her coworkers. Thirteen year old Arshiya Kapadia contends with the death of her mother. Podcast # 978

• 0:14Speaker 00

  This is The Moth Radio Hour. I'm your host Suzanne Rust. You don't have to join the circus to perform acts of bravura. Life itself is a high-wire act. We are constantly putting ourselves on the line, taking risks, and searching for balance. This episode features stories about finding your equilibrium when life knocks you sideways. Sometimes you just have to step out on that wire and be brave enough to go across. But sometimes, like our first teller, you just have to join the circus. This story was told by Tiffany McKinney at a Detroit slam. Here's Tiffany, live at The Moth.

• 0:50Speaker 01

  Okay, I'm gonna get close and not touch the mic. Okay. All right. All right. Hey, this is scary. Okay. I woke up one morning, opened my eyes, and waited. I knew this morning would be the same as every other morning had been for the past two months. My husband and best friend of 22 years had passed away, and I waited for grief to greet me. I waited for my brain to start the same argument, to just stay in the bed and not get up. But I did. I got up, and it was Monday. I checked my cellphone and I smiled.

• 1:31Speaker 01

  My group of girlfriends, they were texting me, giving me messages of encouragement, telling me they were proud of me, and sending me memes of hoops of fire, someone taming a lion, and a lady in a sparkly leotard flying through the air. The week prior, I had decided I had to do something to make myself feel better, something to help me find joy. And I was working with a personal trainer, I had signed up for a swim class, when I saw a local news segment interviewing the owner of the Detroit Fly House Circus. Yes, so I said, "Ooh." But what I was really impressed about is they had aerial silks, and I don't know if you know what that is, but it's the fabric in the air, and you see the fancy ladies

• 2:15Speaker 01

  up there in their sparkly costumes swinging through the air, and I could just see myself in the sparkly leotard. So, I joined the circus.

• 2:27Speaker 01

  That Monday was to be my first day of circus training. So I put on my tee shirt and my leggings, the uniform of circus people, I guess, and went down to the Detroit Fly House Circus. So when I got there, I mean, it was just a warehouse. I wasn't impressed, but I don't know what I expected to see, but I was still excited. And there was about a group of eight of us, and as you can imagine, we were a very eclectic group, down there, ready to take circus classes. And so they divided the class up into two groups, and my group started first on the aerial silks. And you could see the silk in the air, it was so beautiful. It was purple, and the instructor walks over and pulls the cord, and I mean, it just dramatically, like, flowed from the ceiling, it was so beautiful.

• 3:12Speaker 01

  And I was so excited. So we stood in a line, and the instructor told us, he taught us how to hold and mount the fabric, and pull ourselves up. So I'm standing last in the line of four people, and, one by one, first person goes up, wraps their arm up, wraps their foot up, and pulls themselves up in the air. So eventually, it's my turn. Now, these people, some of them apparently had had circus training prior to that day, because they were up there spinning and doing all kind of flips and tricks, and I'm mesmerized, not thinking, eventually it's gonna be my turn. But, once I grabbed onto the rope, and I felt, you know, felt the weight of myself,

• 3:53Speaker 01

  like, I promise you, it was not until that point that I actually thought about it, and like, reality crash, it like slapped me in the face. And I'm thinking, first of all, I'm heavy. Second of all, I mean, I'm probably the oldest one in this room. I was older than everybody, including that little instructor. And I'm out of shape, but I'm there now, so I'm holding on and I'm trying to pull myself up, and as I'm trying, I managed to get like two feet off the ground, but my foot is tangled up in the fabric and it's squeezing it so tightly, and it hurts. So I kind of fumbled my way down, and I'm embarrassed, and I'm sweating, okay, and I'm out of breath, but everybody was just kind of gracious, and we just go with it, and the instructor continues to tell us how to do these other...

• 4:35Speaker 01

  Tricks on the silks and every time I'm last in the line of four and these people just get up there and spin around and make it look so easy and it's my turn and I'm out of breath and I'm out of shape and I'm so embarrassed. So about an hour in, we take a break and at this point, I am just overwhelmed, I'm so humiliated and I'm still sweating. And I just decided, first of all, I couldn't look anybody in the face, so I just said, "Keep your head down, get your purse, get in the car, go home." So I grabbed my purse, I walked out the door. I got into the parking lot and I promise you, as soon as my foot hit the parking lot, I felt the Lord speak to me and remind me that this was my story.

• 5:16Speaker 01

  Nobody in there knew that every single day, I was fighting for the will to live. Nobody knew how hard it was and nobody else had that story and I wasn't gonna let them take this little bit of joy from me. So, I wiped my face, I turned around and went back to the circus. So the second half of class, we still have to finish the class, the second half of class, we learn tricks on a hoop. Now, when I signed up for this, in my mind, I thought, "What? Hula hoop? Cause I see ladies at the circus using a hula hoop." No, no. This is a thin metal hoop hanging about five feet off the ground from this thick rope, right? And, oh God, here we go.

• 6:01Speaker 01

  I'm thinking I'm gonna have my Rocky moment, this is gonna be it, but that's not what happened. So, the instructor starts again and he's telling us how to, you know, get up on this hoop or whatever. And again, I'm last in the line of four people and it's just as hard, I'm struggling, I'm sweating, they even had to lower that hoop down one foot just for me. But let me tell you something, by the time I pulled all 230 pounds up on that little metal hoop, the entire class was cheering for me, including the instructor. I almost cried, I was so excited and so I just, I had my moment, I took it. I closed my eyes and I leaned back and I pictured myself in this sparkly leotard and when I opened my eyes, the little instructor was standing there.

• 6:45Speaker 01

  He's like, "You want me to take your picture?" "No, sir." I know this is not look like anything like what it does in my head, just leaves me be.

• 6:55Speaker 01

  So needless to say, life is still not what I expected it to be. It's still messy, it's still hard. I still have to be reminded that this is my story and I get to walk it out however I choose. But I know how to find joy even in the hard things. And while I finished that six-week class, I did not return to the circus. Instead of hoping for a sparkly leotard, I just went to Target and bought one.

• 7:27Speaker 00

  That was Tiffany McKinney. She is an entrepreneur and speaker. Tiffany has given up the hoops and silks, but she has other goals. Every day, she looks for people she can encourage. She feels privileged to share the knowledge that hard things, terrible things, can happen. But she believes that you can still find joy on the other side of it. On that note, Tiffany says that she is on a never-ending quest for a pina colada and a palm tree. To see a photo of Tiffany, head to themoth.org in the radio extras.

• 8:06Speaker 00

  There are moments in life when just being who you are is an extreme act of bravery, an act of defiance. Our next story was told by Dave Lara, who shared it at a Moth main stage in New London, Connecticut, where we partner with Guard Arts Center. Here's Dave.

• 8:32Speaker 02

  In the olden days, it was mostly men that went to war. And in fact, the term "band of brothers" comes from that old-time period. They were men that had similar life experiences: wives, children, regular jobs. They were drinking buddies. And you can depend on these band of brothers to get you through the worst that war threw at you.

• 9:05Speaker 02

  My mother died and an absent father made a life-changing event for me. I was seventeen and the juvenile courts of Los Angeles declared me an adult. They called me emancipated.

• 9:25Speaker 02

  So I took my emancipated ass and I joined the Navy.

• 9:32Speaker 02

  But I didn't have a band of brothers.

• 9:36Speaker 02

  I was a criminal.

• 9:39Speaker 02

  Being gay had laws against my existence. There were penalties that included jail. Whether I was in or outside of the military.

• 9:52Speaker 02

  There were witch hunts looking for me and my kind.

• 9:58Speaker 02

  But I had no choice.

• 10:02Speaker 02

  I made it through boot camp and was assigned to Hospital Corps School to become sort of a nurse. Not quite a doctor, but most definitely a bedpan washer.

• 10:16Speaker 02

  I joke, of course. A hospital corpsman does what a doctor does to save a man's life in the field.

• 10:29Speaker 02

  After I finished, I got orders to the USS Repose, a hospital ship off the coast of Vietnam. Most of my time would be on that ship. I was lucky.

• 10:42Speaker 02

  I remember it was raining when I landed in Vietnam. And with the red mud and green uniforms of the Marines, everything became sepia-toned, like in the movie Wizard of Oz with its Friends of Dorothy's.

• 11:04Speaker 02

  My ship wasn't on station, so I had to spend like 12 days up at an aid station near the DMZ called Dong Ha.

• 11:15Speaker 02

  Two corpsmen, Matt and Joe, were assigned to me and got me up to speed on my temporary duties.

• 11:23Speaker 02

  Matt was a short, stocky blonde, cute little fucker. And he was battle hardened and strong. I was in love.

• 11:36Speaker 02

  Joe, a big burly Polish guy, well, he had a droll sense of humor.

• 11:44Speaker 02

  He was so much fun to be around.

• 11:49Speaker 02

  They happened to be gay. Yeah, even then, we had gaydar. It usually started with the question, "So, do you have a girlfriend?"

• 12:02Speaker 02

  And war, you make friends fast. And so, as I reported to my ship, we agreed that we were going to get together somehow. And that opportunity came quick. The repose, my hospital ship, was scheduled to spend IR in Hong Kong for New Year's Eve. Joe and Matt got the time off, joined me and two other gays that I'd found on the ship at the Hong Kong Hilton.

• 12:31Speaker 02

  We rented a double suite, and we spent the whole night talking about what it was like being gay.

• 12:39Speaker 02

  It was the first time we had ever been around our own kind.

• 12:46Speaker 02

  When the others went back to bed, finally, Matt and I stayed up talking seriously.

• 12:54Speaker 02

  If two men could make a life together.

• 12:59Speaker 02

  Society said that we were either insane or criminals. We didn't even know if our love was valid.

• 13:12Speaker 02

  Matt eventually went to bed, saying he just wished he could find someone to love.

• 13:19Speaker 02

  It was there that we called ourselves The Group, and that's with a capital T, based on a novel by Mary McCarthy. It's a story, a very campy story, of women who meet at Vassar, and then we follow them through their life. And the principal themes being job discrimination, sexism, and men. Like us.

• 13:50Speaker 02

  It was rough because...

• 13:58Speaker 02

  I always lose my train of thought at some point.

• 14:07Speaker 02

  Oh yeah, The Group became our Band of Brothers. We had shared experiences. Things that we knew about. And like our straight compatriots, our Band of Brothers got us through the worst of war, the pain, the suffering, and the dying.

• 14:30Speaker 02

  It was a tradition at the time for sailors to buy Zippo lighters and have their ship name, their job title, their base etched on those lighters. We had ours etched with The Group, and our bond was sealed.

• 14:50Speaker 02

  I mentioned Band of Brothers because we were seeing the worst of war. Matt and Joe, every day at Donghae, were under constant rocket attacks.

• 15:05Speaker 02

  I, on the ship, was seeing suffering and pain.

• 15:10Speaker 02

  It became routine

• 15:14Speaker 02

  for men to die in my hands.

• 15:19Speaker 02

  My thirteen months were up, and I once again joined Matt and Joe at Dong Ha to spend my last week in Vietnam before going back to the world.

• 15:33Speaker 02

  Second day I was there, Matt and I found ourselves alone as we came off a shift.

• 15:40Speaker 02

  And he said, "David, why haven't we ever made love?" I laughed, and I go, "Dude, we haven't had a chance."

• 15:50Speaker 02

  But he asked, "Do you want to, don't you?"

• 15:55Speaker 02

  And I leaned down and kissed him.

• 15:59Speaker 02

  A few days later, a dust-off, a medevac, was needed at a base very close to the GMC. It was called Kontien.

• 16:12Speaker 02

  And the unit up there were known as the Walking Dead.

• 16:18Speaker 02

  Matt went on one chopper, I went on another. Joe was already up there.

• 16:23Speaker 02

  We landed, and we began to load the wounded.

• 16:32Speaker 02

  A rocket hit the chopper that Matt had come in on.

• 16:37Speaker 02

  And he was standing at the door and was blown several feet.

• 16:45Speaker 02

  I ran to him.

• 16:48Speaker 02

  I knew he was dying.

• 16:53Speaker 02

  And as I looked at him, he had glistening tears in his eyes. And I told him, "I wish we could have been lovers. I love you, Matt. I love you."

• 17:08Speaker 02

  Joe and some Marines were gathered around. Nobody cared that two men could love each other, not there.

• 17:21Speaker 02

  And then Matt died.

• 17:26Speaker 02

  He just died.

• 17:31Speaker 02

  I bent my head on his chest crying. I could hear Joe say, "Come on Dave, you gotta go." He pointed to the chopper I'd come in on, he said, "It's rotor blades are spinning like crazy. If you don't get going, it's gonna get blown up too."

• 17:50Speaker 02

  I just stared at him.

• 17:54Speaker 02

  He grabbed my chin and he made me look at him and he goes, "You've been here long enough. You know how this works."

• 18:05Speaker 02

  And then he whispered,

• 18:08Speaker 02

  "The friendship's over.

• 18:12Speaker 02

  Now go."

• 18:16Speaker 02

  I searched Matt's pockets, looking for that zipple, the one inscribed with the group, and it's capital T.

• 18:28Speaker 02

  It was 1967, and when I went home, I was alone and in pain, and I don't remember anything

• 18:39Speaker 02

  of my trip going back to the world.

• 18:44Speaker 02

  In 1970, the witch had caught up with me.

• 18:49Speaker 02

  I was stationed at Quanik, over Virginia.

• 18:54Speaker 02

  And I was discharged for the crime of being a homosexual.

• 19:01Speaker 02

  It was less than honorable.

• 19:07Speaker 02

  I packed my uniforms

• 19:11Speaker 02

  and the five medals I had been awarded into my sea bag.

• 19:16Speaker 02

  And as I left the base for the last time, I threw it into a dumpster.

• 19:25Speaker 02

  I had been so proud of my medals,

• 19:29Speaker 02

  but my less-than-honorable discharge erased them from my service record.

• 19:38Speaker 02

  I went to Arlington, where Matt is buried, and I promised him I would do something to change the world so that men like he and I could serve honorably.

• 19:54Speaker 02

  In the 1970s, I became a soldier in the gay rights movement, and I helped establish the first gay men's service center in Los Angeles.

• 20:05Speaker 02

  In the 80s, I joined an AIDS activist group called ACT UP, and we were petitioning the government to find treatments for the disease. And in the 2000s, I became members of Veterans Groups of Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans to show by my presence that you could survive what war does to you.

• 20:35Speaker 02

  I still have Matt's zip.

• 20:43Speaker 02

  It's the same shape as his tombstone, like all the headstones there at Arlington.

• 20:57Speaker 02

  But you know what? I'm not bitter.

• 21:01Speaker 02

  The Navy gave me more than it took. It gave me wisdom.

• 21:08Speaker 02

  It gave me Matt.

• 21:12Speaker 02

  And I have kept Matt's lighter

• 21:18Speaker 02

  as a reminder

• 21:21Speaker 02

  of the best time of my life

• 21:25Speaker 02

  and of the men

• 21:28Speaker 02

  I still love.

• 21:32Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 21:46Speaker 00

  That was Dave Lara. Dave came to us through the Moth Community Program via a workshop that we held with veterans in media and entertainment. Dave, who writes novels and performs, describes himself as a retired 79-year-old Mexican-Jewish high school dropout who is trying to stay relevant. While Dave says he can't do all that he used to, he still considers himself an activist. He still shows up in veteran circles, sharing the story of the group, making sure people know that men like them were always there and died for this country just like everyone else.

• 22:29Speaker 03

  I've been asked, "What would I say to Matt if I could sit down with him right now?" This is such a painful question. Do I speak to him as the young man I was or the old man I've become? Because he is forever young to me. I'll answer as the old man. And I would lean into my friend Matt and say, "Don't worry, my sweet boy. We would have had our chance at love. We did change society, not completely, but enough that what you and I thought was impossible in our youth became real. The journey was brutal.

• 23:14Speaker 03

  Our small band of brothers, the group, those men didn't achieve acceptance for themselves in life. They never found the strength to fight society. They could not break out of the mold that they had built for themselves. But I did. And I know you would have been right beside me as I fought every single day for the rights and respect you and I deserved. I love you, Matt. I always will."

• 23:46Speaker 00

  That was Dave Lara. To see some photos of Dave from the time of his story, go to our website, themoth.org.

• 24:03Speaker 00

  In a moment, pushing the limits and pushing your luck when The Moth Radio Hour continues.

• 24:16Speaker 04

  The Moth Radio Hour is produced by Atlantic Public Media in Woods Hole, Massachusetts.

• 24:23Speaker 05

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• 25:06Speaker 05

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• 25:21Speaker 00

  This is The Moth Radio Hour, and I'm your host, Suzanne Rust. How far would you go to get your colleagues to like you? Martha McBrier went full-tilt, and she shared her adventure at a London Grand Slam. Here's Martha, live at The Moth.

• 25:46Speaker 06

  Everybody likes me.

• 25:51Speaker 06

  I am so nice, I'm actually scary. And I've always been proud of that. And in 2004, I took a community development job in a little Scottish village called Twecker. I was advised not to take the job. I was told, "They don't like outsiders. They will not like you." And I thought, "Well, that's not going to happen, so..."

• 26:27Speaker 06

  So I start the job and it becomes evident that I'm roundly despised.

• 26:37Speaker 06

  I tried everything to please them. They wanted to learn first aid. I set up a 12-week course, none of them attended.

• 26:48Speaker 06

  A guy had a heart attack in the foyer of the centre and I got the blame.

• 26:54Speaker 06

  I set up a break dancing class for the young people and the trainer left because the kid's defecated on the bonnet of his car.

• 27:05Speaker 06

  I asked the women in the mother and toddlers group if they would not smoke round the babies. And they sent round a petition demanding a stop to interfering. It was very, very stressful.

• 27:24Speaker 06

  And one morning, one of the committee came in and said, "We're holding a gala in a few weeks. We do it every year to raise funds. Can you bake?"

• 27:39Speaker 06

  And I can't say that I can't bake, because this'll be another reason they've got to hate me. And before I even knew what I had said, I said, "Oh, I'm not doing a bake sale. I'm doing a parachute jump."

• 28:00Speaker 06

  I've got a lot of sponsors, so...

• 28:05Speaker 06

  She said I'll tell the rest of the committee.

• 28:09Speaker 06

  They all came in and they said, "Would you like to choose the gala queen?" The ultimate respect. I had won them over.

• 28:24Speaker 06

  One small issue.

• 28:27Speaker 06

  I suffer from severe vertigo.

• 28:32Speaker 06

  I am terrified of heights. I can't even look up at a balcony. That's how badly it affects me. But I can't back out. And I tell my sister. And she says, "Are you crazy? This is so dangerous. Why would you do that?" She says, "Come on. Would you rather be disliked or dead?"

• 29:00Speaker 06

  And I said, "Well, dead, obviously." She says, "Okay, I'll go and get a headstone tomorrow. Here lies Martha she was liked."

• 29:14Speaker 06

  I said, "That'd be great."

• 29:21Speaker 06

  So the people on the village all start being nice to me. They bring me lunch. We have banter. They give me a nickname, Jumper.

• 29:32Speaker 06

  So I cannot back out. The time comes to do the jump. I do two days of safety training. And the instructor said, "Your parachute should open. If it does not punch, and your safety parachute should open. If that does not open, you will plunge to your death in 11 seconds."

• 29:56Speaker 06

  That seemed like a really long time, man.

• 30:00Speaker 06

  I saw the plane. It was about the size of a coffee table. And it had no door. So I vomited for two hours.

• 30:14Speaker 06

  But I went in and I was crying, sobbing with fear. But at 3,000 feet, I jumped from the plane.

• 30:29Speaker 06

  And my parachute opened.

• 30:33Speaker 06

  And it was so blissful. It was wonderful. And I came over all Louis Armstrong. And I said, "Oh, Scotland's really pretty." "And I can fly."

• 30:51Speaker 06

  And just at that, a quite powerful gust of wind blew me. And I couldn't steer past it. And I thought, "Yeah, this is when I die." But I landed about 24 miles away in the grounds of a lesser-known Scottish castle.

• 31:14Speaker 06

  And I was chased for some time by a rather troubled bull. But it was still one of the best experiences of my life. And I raised a thousand pounds.

• 31:33Speaker 06

  But within 48 hours, they reverted back to hating me again.

• 31:41Speaker 06

  So I resigned. And they got me a leaving card with no signatures in it.

• 31:52Speaker 06

  And a few years later, I met one of them in town. And she said, "Oh, it's so lovely to see you. What a shame you left. We always liked you."

• 32:05Speaker 06

  Thank you.

• 32:13Speaker 00

  That was Martha McBrier, a Scot living in London whose passions are belly dancing, watching true crime, and critiquing the neighbours' recycling. After losing her hearing, she struggled with confidence until she discovered the power of true storytelling. Martha said that the moth gave her her voice back.

• 32:32Speaker 00

  When Martha reflects on that event, she said that the first thing that comes to mind is an intense feeling of peace while she was in the air and how that moved her to tears. But then she cringes when she remembers that she did something that dramatic to get people to like her.

• 32:51Speaker 00

  Her last brave act was a hill walk with a friend up Ben Lomond Mountain in Scotland, with inadequate equipment, no sense of direction, and a false sense of optimism. Even when she slipped and fell and dangled from a snowy rock, sobbing with fear, Martha said that she didn't have the heart to tell her friend that she really wasn't enjoying the experience.

• 33:19Speaker 00

  In a moment, a story of lipstick and memories when The Moth Radio Hour continues.

• 33:34Speaker 04

  The Moth Radio Hour is produced by Atlantic Public Media in Woods Hole, Massachusetts.

• 33:42Speaker 05

  Today's episode is brought to you by Vinted. We've all got that designated chair or corner in the bedroom piled high with clothes we keep telling ourselves we'll definitely wear, but never actually do. My pile has reached critical mass, and it's past time for decisive action. Declutter or bust? Thankfully, I just learned about Vinted, a secondhand marketplace app that makes it easy to give your pre-loved fashion a second life and earn some extra cash in the process. Snapping photos and listing my pieces on Vinted can fit right into my afternoon routine without any hassle. The whole process is simple. Once an item sells, Vinted creates the prepaid shipping label for you, taking all the headache out of shipping things out. And there are no seller fees, so every bit of profit goes straight into your bank account

• 34:26Speaker 05

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• 34:43Speaker 00

  This is The Moth Radio Hour. I'm Suzanne Rust. As we end this hour, we have a final exploration of the ways in which life continually challenges us to find our balance and recalibrate. Our last story was told by Arshiya Kapadia, who shared it at a main stage in New Brunswick, where we partnered with the State Theater, New Jersey. Here's Arshiya, live at the Moth.

• 35:10Speaker 07

  Good evening, how are you doing today?

• 35:14Speaker 07

  So, my name is Arshi and I'm made in Bombay, India, where I spent most of my life. I'm an only child and my mom was a single parent, a teacher. Ammi had a deep love for life and all the finer things in life. Her saree collection was absolutely beautiful, she collected sarees from all over India. Her jewellery collection was fabulous, much coveted. She actually had so many incredible pieces that all of her cousins often borrowed some of them and never returned it. So maybe I should follow up on that.

• 35:50Speaker 07

  I remember the house was never empty, she loved cooking, she loved feeding people. Sometimes, you know, people were almost sitting on top of each other, fighting for that last scoop of biryani.

• 36:01Speaker 07

  But I think not a lot of people are aware of this, that Ammi had a secret addiction. She was a lover of lipsticks.

• 36:12Speaker 07

  Her eyes lit up like diamonds when she saw a tube of lipstick. Shiny, creamy, beautiful, glistening, just waiting to be applied.

• 36:22Speaker 07

  Her favourite colours were the darker reds, the maroons, the rus. Shinier the better, I think, was her motto. But I think what she really wanted and lusted were those elusive foreign brands that we didn't get in India back then. They came encased in these shimmery golden tubes and you were dependent on your foreign relatives to, you know, hustle them into the country for you.

• 36:46Speaker 07

  So she had made a pact with one of her cousins who lived in London. His name was Khaleek, Khaleek uncle. We Indians call everybody uncle and auntie, so just roll with that.

• 36:57Speaker 07

  So Khaleek uncle came over the Christmas holidays every year and without fail, he would bring one of her favourite brands, which was Max Factor. Right before he arrived, a letter would arrive in the mail in which he would write, "My dear Naseema, I'm coming as usual over the Christmas holidays and I'm bringing the latest shade of Max Factor with me."

• 37:21Speaker 07

  Ammi would be counting down the days and along with her, so would I.

• 37:28Speaker 07

  Ammi passed away when I was 13.

• 37:32Speaker 07

  She had stage three breast cancer. And she didn't survive that very long. Within a year, she was gone, it was imminent.

• 37:41Speaker 07

  Since she passed away at around 10:00 PM in the night, and it's customary to bury the dead after one of the five obligatory prayers in the Islamic tradition, it was decided that we would bury her in the morning, after the first prayer of the day. So we brought Ami's body home, and it was kept on these huge chunks of dry ice in the room that I shared with her.

• 38:10Speaker 07

  I remember standing in that room, seeing her body and wondering, what should I do now? Was there some playbook that people forgot to give me? What should a thirteen-year-old do? Should I be lamenting, crying my heart out? Or should I be all strong and silent and pretend to be this really strong stoic girl? I didn't know.

• 38:31Speaker 07

  My mother, she has four brothers, and it was decided that they would raise me after her death. So I remember my eldest uncle, who I call Mamujan, he came into the room at this point. He came over and he held me and he said, "Arshi, take all the time you want tonight. No one will disturb you."

• 38:54Speaker 07

  I remember standing in that room, wondering what to do. People kept drifting in and out of the room to pay their last respects to her, but also to check in on me. But they left me alone mostly to my own thoughts.

• 39:10Speaker 07

  They say the darkest hour of the night is right before dawn. I was dreading dawn.

• 39:18Speaker 07

  I was hoping the sun would never rise.

• 39:23Speaker 07

  The night was stretching endlessly ahead of me. And at some point, I think I dozed off. And then, I heard the birds chirping. The first glimmer of sunshine through the curtains.

• 39:38Speaker 07

  I got up from the floor and I walked over to Ami's dressing table. I looked at her precious lipsticks and I wondered, "What will become of you now?"

• 39:48Speaker 07

  Then I heard my eldest uncle Mamujan quietly tip her into the room. He came over to me and he said, "It's time."

• 39:57Speaker 07

  In that moment, all I wanted to do was run back to Ami's dressing table, grab one of her favorite lipsticks and paint her red lips, one more time just before she left the house. So I asked my uncle, "May I?" And he said, "Sorry, beta, but that's not allowed. Just say a quiet prayer and let her go." So I said, "Surely we belong to the Almighty and to Him we shall return." And they took her away.

• 40:31Speaker 07

  The next night after Ami's passing away was the longest night of my life. Grief was everywhere I looked, even the pillows were crying.

• 40:42Speaker 07

  I remember my nanny, my maternal grandmother, she told me once, "You know, Arshi, God is so merciful. Right before He sends the angel of death to take someone's life, He first sends the archangel Gabriel. You know why He does that? Because He doesn't want to scare the servant with the face of death. He just wants to give folks a gentle heads up." Okay, maybe. I love my grandmother, but this story doesn't make any sense.

• 41:16Speaker 07

  How can God be the most merciful one when He was showing so much cruelty to me? A mere 13-year-old.

• 41:25Speaker 07

  I didn't know what to do. But maybe, maybe, just maybe, let's consider this. Maybe that was the grand plan. That Ami would go first and then this beautiful angel Gabriel would show up and take me to her to the other side. That would just work out perfectly because I didn't want to live without her. Not for a single minute.

• 41:48Speaker 07

  I sat down, waiting for Gabriel. No sign of him. And then I remembered my Plan B. "Oh yeah, I had a Plan B. I'm an only child, remember? We always have a Plan B."

• 42:03Speaker 07

  Unknown to anyone else, I had secretly acquired a tube of rat poison. It was called Rat Oil Paste and was easily available back in those days in Indian homes. It was hiding under the bed, and now I was clutching it in my hand. And in that moment, all I wanted to do was ingest the whole goddamn fucking tube.

• 42:30Speaker 07

  "Just do it, Arshi," says the voice in my head. "Your mother is dead. She's never going to come back. She's never going to find out. And even if she does, it's going to be too late. It's now or never."

• 42:43Speaker 07

  And then I heard a soft voice in my head. "It's hers," she says. "Promise me, Arshi. If anything were to happen to me, you'll never do anything silly. You won't take your own life. You have to promise me." My mother, of course she knew me so well. That was her dying wish.

• 43:04Speaker 07

  "Oh, but come on, she's dead," writes the voice. "You can do this." My head is going to burst into a million pieces. And then my eldest uncle Mamujan walks into the room again. He holds me close to him, he pats me, and he says,

• 43:24Speaker 07

  "I know you're going through so much right now. Words are not easy. There are no words to console you. You need help. Ask God for help. Ask for his forgiveness. Ask for his mercy. Start praying." Sure, I do need help. But forgiveness? Why should I be the one asking God for forgiveness? He should be the one asking me for my forgiveness. In fact, he should be begging me for my forgiveness and not the other way around. "Oh, Arshi, you'll have so much time to have your one-on-one with God."

• 44:04Speaker 07

  Now is not the time for arguments. Just be the obedient little Indian girl you are and start praying. Maybe Gabriel will show up, maybe God will have mercy on you. Okay, so I start praying. La la la, and the la la la, la la la, la la.

• 44:24Speaker 07

  The night is just ending and I can feel the darkness closing in on me. I think I pass out on the floor at some point. And then, I hear the first birds chirping, the glimmer of sunshine, the curtains start moving.

• 44:43Speaker 07

  No sign of Gabriel. He didn't show up? Maybe he forgot about me? Maybe he doesn't care enough or he became busy with chores because he's like working for so many different gods? I don't know.

• 45:00Speaker 07

  But the message is clear. I have to live. No one is going to come save me.

• 45:10Speaker 07

  Slowly I find my legs, I get up. I slide the rat poison back under the bed and I make my way to Ami's dressing table.

• 45:21Speaker 07

  One by one, I pick up her lipsticks and I put them away in one of her favorite jewelry boxes. I close the lid and I say, "Khothar afiz aami, farewell." I never open that box again. I look at it from time to time, but I just let it be.

• 45:39Speaker 07

  I now live in New Jersey.

• 45:46Speaker 07

  No prizes for guessing that I have a pretty formidable lipstick collection of my own now. I remember the first time, I walked into a Sephora and I bought a beautiful shade of Chanel lipstick. Creamy, creamy, glistening, just waiting to be applied. It cost me more than thirty dollars. Didn't even bat an eyelid, didn't convert it into Indian rupees, just paid up. "Oh, Ami," I thought, "you must be so proud of me." But I haven't really gravitated towards the shiny reds, pinks, you know, the brighter colors that she loved.

• 46:24Speaker 07

  I'm more of a nude girl myself, so I think that Ami would have been really disappointed in my choice of lipstick shades. Hey, Ammi, I survived. I live to tell the tale. Haan, theek hai. It's okay, Arshi, beta. So, why can't you tell this tale, wearing shiny red lipstick?

• 46:47Speaker 07

  Indian parents. There's no winning. But I tried, Ammi. I really tried.

• 47:12Speaker 00

  That was Arshiya Kapadia.

• 47:17Speaker 00

  Arshiya is a global communications leader, storyteller, and mother of twins, who has lived across three continents, but is now based in the New York tri-state area.

• 47:27Speaker 00

  Arshiya holds a master in film and television. And back in India, she was a journalist and nonfiction TV producer, creating some of the country's most iconic shows, including MTB: Style Check and Lives Like That. She believes the best stories are the ones we live first and rewrite later.

• 47:49Speaker 00

  Obviously, I had to know what her favorite lipstick was these days. She said it's a matte crayon lipstick from an Indian brand called Sugar in the shade Lily Aldrin, a deep pink mauve color.

• 48:05Speaker 00

  I was on the subway the other day and watched a mother lovingly apply some lip gloss to her young teen daughter's lips. She then took out a mirror from her bag, so that the girl could admire herself, and they both smiled at the reflection.

• 48:20Speaker 00

  It was a beautiful intimate moment that really made me miss my mother, who died when I was just 21. I think that learning to live through loss and grief is one of the scariest high-wire acts of all.

• 48:34Speaker 00

  Losing my mother at a young age really shaped me, and I wonder how it shaped Arshiya. She said that it made her realize early on that nothing is guaranteed, not people, not time, not even memories. In Arshiya's words, "When you're afraid of forgetting the sound of someone's voice, you start looking for something tangible to hold on to. When the person you rely on most disappears so suddenly, a part of you learns to keep some distance. It's not cynicism, it's self-protection. But it's also made me intentional about the relationships I do have. If I let someone in, it means something." So losing her didn't just shape my grief, it shaped my approach to life. "Hold on to what matters. Accept

• 49:18Speaker 00

  that some things will fade, and build trust carefully but wholeheartedly when you find people who feel steady." Those are the words of Arshiya Kapadia.

• 49:40Speaker 00

  That's it for this episode of The Moth Radio Hour. Thanks to all of our storytellers for being brave enough to step out on the high wire and share their stories, and to all of you for spending some time with us today. We appreciate you and hope you'll join us next time.

• 50:21Speaker 04

  This episode of The Moth Radio Hour was produced by me, Jay Allison, and Suzanne Rust, who also hosted the show. Co-producer is Vicky Merrick, associate producer Emily Couch. The stories were directed by Jody Powell and Larry Rosen. The Moth's leadership team includes Christina Norman, Marina Kluch, Sarah Austin Jenness, Jennifer Hickson, Jordan Cardinale, Caledonia Cairns, Kate Tellers, Sarah Jane Johnson, and Patricia Urenya. Dave Lara came to us through The Moth's community program via a workshop that we held with veterans in media and entertainment.

• 50:58Speaker 04

  Moth stories are true as remembered and affirmed by the storytellers. Our theme music is by The Drift. Other music in this hour is from Epidemic Sound. Podcast music, production support from Davey Sumner. The Moth Radio Hour is produced by Atlantic Public Media in Woods Hole, Massachusetts. Special thanks to our friends at Odyssey, including executive producer Leah Reese Dennis. For more about our podcast, for information on pitching us your own story, and to learn all about The Moth, go to our website, themoth.org.