Speaking of Death: The Moth Radio Hour

This episode originally aired on July 4, 2023. In this hour, stories of the most inevitable part of life: death—with a positive twist. Opportunities for connection, moments of healing, and unique ways of moving through grief. This episode is hosted by Moth Executive Producer, Sarah Austin Jenness. The Moth Radio Hour is produced by The Moth and Jay Allison of Atlantic Public Media. Storytellers: Bruce McCulloch masquerades as a familiar creature. Lori Syverson takes a job as a deathwalker. Jerrianne Boggis reconnects with her Jamaican roots when her beloved aunt dies. Podcast # 824

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  I'm a big fan of the fall. Shorter days mean cozier nights. I'm looking at a new rug for my living room, some fluffy pillows, and some large pillar candles, so that I can fake a fireplace vibe in my New York City apartment. I look to Wayfair because of their great selection and quality. Wayfair Verified means products are hand-vetted by product specialists using a 10-point quality inspection. Wayfair makes finding home solutions simple with thousands of products tailored to every style and budget. You can browse real customer photos and read through more than 20 million verified five-star reviews to select the ideal items for your home. Whether you're upgrading an essential appliance or decorating for the upcoming festive season, you'll love the options.

• 0:41Speaker 00

  Find pieces made for real life and get even more value with Wayfair Rewards. Join Wayfair Rewards today to get 5% back on every purchase. Head to wayfair.com to shop all things home. That's W-A-Y-F-A-I-R dot com. Wayfair, every style, every home.

• 0:59Sarah Austin Jenness?

  Wayfair, every style, every home. You know that feeling when you put on a great outfit before dinner, but two hours later you're wondering why you wore pants with a waistband? We've all been there, when bloating and digestion get in the way of everyday life. That's where Seed's DSO1 comes in. It's a daily, 24-strain probiotic and prebiotic designed to support digestive health and whole-body health. What got my attention was that DSO1 was studied in the largest clinical trial to date for a probiotic on bloating and gas in healthy adults, and was shown to improve regularity, reduce bloating, and alleviate gas. A lot of probiotics don't make it past your stomach acid, but Seed uses an advanced capsule-in-capsule

• 1:41Sarah Austin Jenness?

  design that helps protect the live bacteria through digestion, so they can get where they need to go. Ready to start? Make gut health part of your routine. Go to seed.com/themoth to get 25% off your first order with code 25THEMOTH. That's seed.com/themoth. These statements have not been evaluated by the FDA. These products are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease. This is The Moth Radio Hour. I'm Sarah Austin Genes.

• 2:22Sarah Austin Jenness?

  In this show, stories of death, but the kind of stories that will lift you up and may start a conversation around the inevitable. In many cultures, death is not spoken of, which makes it scarier. So in this episode, we're talking about it with three stories that may make life's endings a little easier. In the last days of my mother's life, when we finally knew she was dying, there was a red-haired Irish nurse who came into our hospital room to start the morphine drip. My mother was Irish, so this coincidence was comforting. And I remember the nurse saying, in a smooth, almost angelic voice, "We cannot go back.

• 3:04Sarah Austin Jenness?

  We can only move forward." They were words to live and die by. So here we go. We start with Bruce McCullough. He told this at a Moth main stage in Los Angeles, where we partnered with the Broad Stage. Here's Bruce, live at The Moth.

• 3:28Speaker 02

  Hello. For my wife and my kids and I, we've always really loved Halloween. And I think it's because we can put so much energy into our costumes. You know, I usually dress in tandem with something with my son, Roscoe. I was Robin to his Batman. We went out as Hall & Oates. He was the handsome one, obviously. My wife went out as a Picasso painting. And then the year 1960, go figure, she's creative that way, and it's one of her outlets. She doesn't have The Moth. And my daughter, Heidi, has gone out as a series of the Disney princesses.

• 4:11Speaker 02

  But lately, she's grown tired of the Disney brand, which I really appreciate. So we really love Halloween around our house, except for last year. We have a family pet, Lulu, a white standard poodle. But if you're trying to imagine her, we don't cut her all poodly, we just let her go. And she's a great dog. You just go, "Lulu," and she'd run around. You could hear a little collar jingle. Well, in August, Lulu got sick. She had this little nosebleed that started kind of sporadically, but started to gain momentum. And so much so that we decided to take her to the vet. He couldn't find anything, still $70.

• 4:52Speaker 02

  And he looked at us and he said, "Oh, it's probably just nothing." But in a way that in my head I heard, "It's probably just everything." And I wasn't paranoid, I was true. I was right. Because that nosebleed would not stop. It just kept going and going. We'd lie her on our bed on a towel, and she'd always lie on the other part of our bed. And we'd walk her to the park, and her nose would bleed, and using the drips, we could find our way back home like Hansel and Gretel. And then one day, she got up to go to the park, her little collar jingled, and she fell down. She couldn't walk. Now, anyone here who's ever had to wrap a pet in a towel or a blanket, and rush it

• 5:37Speaker 02

  to animal emergency, I will spare you the gory details. Needless to say, that a couple pieces of bad news and an operation that didn't go as planned, our little girl was just hanging in. It was the next day, we were picking up our kids from karate class. We got the call from the animal hospital, saying, "Your girl's in trouble. If you want to see her again, you better get here soon." So we had to figure out how to get our kids from karate class and get all the way across town, going full blast without letting them know how freaked out we were. We said, "Oh, those people at the animal hospital, they just need some money by the time the bank closes," which was kind of true. And when we got there, I didn't know what I was doing. I just said, "Okay, she's probably asleep. We're gonna go in.

• 6:22Speaker 02

  You kids, you just stay here." So we went inside, and they took us into a room I'd never been in before. And there was our girl, lying on a metal table. She had a tube from her paw and one in her mouth. And we said, "Hello, Lulu." And she heard our voices, and her tail kind of flinched. It didn't wag, it just flinched. She had the impulse, but not the strength. And our voices comforted her, because she was blind now. And we looked at our dog, and my wife and I, and we knew it was all over but the ending. And that's why they called us, to come and put her down.

• 7:03Speaker 02

  So we ordered the stuff, $70. And we stroked her ear, we whispered to her, we thanked her for all the love and all the cuddling, for starting our family. We always say she started our family, because we got her a week before Heidi. And then we held her until we didn't have to anymore. Hardly a date night for me and my wife, but it was a shared activity, I guess you could say. Putting down my dog was the hardest thing I have ever done.

• 7:42Speaker 02

  My dad dying was a nuisance compared to this. We went back to the car and got to the kids, and just as we got there, my wife said, "You tell them." I said, "Okay." Guys, Lulu's gone to heaven." My son said, "Bullshit." He knows I don't believe in heaven, and I'm a terrible actor at the best of times. And we just stood there, all of us, crying and heaving and snot coming out our nose. No one knew how to lead this family. We didn't know what to do. So we just went to McDonald's. I guess that's why they're there.

• 8:26Speaker 02

  We drove straight through a drive-thru, Happy Meals that really weren't. My wife, wearing sunglasses with tears going down her cheeks, ate a Big Mac and babbled, "I guess the calories don't count if your dog just died, right?" You know, it's weird when you lose a parent, you're asked to, or you're told you can grieve for a year. But if you lose a pet, you're lucky if you get the day off work. And it was particularly hard, especially for my young daughter, Heidi. She was doing badly in school for the first time. She got really dark, and her teacher found her a book to help her deal with the grief,

• 9:09Speaker 02

  coincidentally and unbelievably called "Saying Goodbye to Lulu." What are the odds? I guess there's a lot of them out there. It was a story about a young girl who had a little puppy that died, and she ended up burying it in the backyard, wrapped in her sweater, for some reason. And my wife and I, we read it. It was a cruel, dark read, but we got through it. And it brought up the obvious for Heidi, that she never got a chance to say goodbye to Lulu. My fault, of course, I kept her in the car. And then the next few weeks, as Halloween grew near, nobody was talking about their costumes. Clearly, Halloween was off.

• 9:52Speaker 02

  And I came home, though, one day about a week before Halloween, and it's as if the mood in the house had shifted, as if someone had opened up a window and let in some happiness. And they announced that, suddenly, Halloween was back on. And they all knew what they were gonna wear. My wife was gonna go out as Frida Kahlo. My son was gonna go out as either a ninja or an owl. He hadn't decided yet. My daughter was gonna go out as a zombie that ate Disney princesses, which I thought was another strong move. And they all knew what I should go out as. You're gonna go out as Lulu. As my dead dog? And why?

• 10:37Speaker 02

  So people get a chance to say goodbye to Lulu. And I thought, "No, I'm not doing it. Make my wife do it, she's the actress." You know, as a parent, you get used to being used as a prop. My Dora, Doris t-shirt became a Dora t-shirt a long time ago. But Dad as Dead Dog? And I said, "Okay, I'll do it." Because when you're a parent, you know you just have to do it and hope for the best. Oh, and the other development is, we were suddenly having a Halloween party. So everyone we knew could come and say goodbye to Lulu.

• 11:24Speaker 02

  The day of the party, I got ready for the worst gig of my adult life. I put on my costume and it was exactly what you'd think it was. An off-white tracksuit with some cotton on it. A white t-shirt, because we call them in Canada, with some felt ears attached. My daughter did my makeup. And the last grim detail was, I wore the actual collar that Lulu wore in life. With her little dog tags that you could jingle. I looked at myself in the mirror and I thought, well, at least I don't have any lines. As the party started, the doorbell rang and the first two people arrived. My daughter Heidi wobbled into the kitchen, moved around and puked.

• 12:06Speaker 02

  She puked a projectile vomit all over the island and on the floor. What goes around, comes around, isn't just about karma, folks. It's also about the stomach flu. Some kids in class had had it the previous week and I thought we dodged a bullet, but apparently not, because there was a pile of puke on the floor. I jumped into action and I told my wife to clean it up. In a respectful, uplifting way, though. And I took Heidi into the TV room, where we conveniently still had the dog gate. Like little bars, so people could visit us in happy jail. And we wouldn't get them sick and we could observe the party.

• 12:51Speaker 02

  And we sat in there and we drank ginger ale and cuddled. And I thought, this is all I ever really wanted a family for. Was to cuddle and watch Little Bear. My daughter was so happy, she started talking and telling me about her life. And she started telling me what you want to be when she grew up. And I wanted to butt in, but I couldn't, because I was in character. And while the party raged outside, Frito was moving around easily. And my son was entertaining people with his ninja moves, even though he was dressed as an owl. We sat and sighed and cuddled.

• 13:34Speaker 02

  Then everybody came and said goodbye to me, well, Lulu and me. And then they left. And then it was just down to the four of us. My son, my wife, my daughter and I. And she looked at me and she said, well, we're all here now. She looked at me and rubbed my ears, jiggled my collar, and said, goodbye, Lulu. My heart both broke and leapt at the same time, because she'd finally gotten to say it. That night, in the middle of the night, I ran to the mirror and I caught a glimpse of myself, some dog makeup still on. And I know I'd gone dressed as my dead dog, but I came back as a guy who had done his best.

• 14:18Speaker 02

  And this time, it worked out.

• 14:29Sarah Austin Jenness?

  That was Bruce McCullough. Bruce is a comedian, writer and director, best known as a member of the sketch troupe The Kids in the Hall. He's directed shows like SNL, Brooklyn Nine-Nine, Schitt's Creek and Trailer Park Boys. These days, Bruce is directing and producing the third season of the CBC sketch series, Tall Boys. To see some photos of Bruce, his children and their dog Lulu, head to our website, themoth.org. Remember, Moth stories are told by everyday folks around the world. And people just like you can call us to leave a short version of the story they want to develop. Here's a pitch we loved, from Lester Pilkington, a funeral director in Fort Myers, Florida.

• 15:14Speaker 03

  I was on a funeral, in the funeral home, and the grandchildren, teenagers, asked if they could put something in the casket with grandpa. They said, certainly. They opened up the bottom portion of the casket and they placed it in a paper bag. Closed the casket and away we went. We got to church, we get to the top of the steps, and from inside the casket, we heard, "Love me tender, love me true." Well, with this, I am looking for a place to hide, because my sense of humor is such that I'm going to pee in my pants. Priest comes out, raises his hand to bless the casket. I'm inside, "Love me tender." And I am hiding behind one of the pillars of the church. I was cracking up. Anyhow, that's my story.

• 15:59Sarah Austin Jenness?

  If you have a story you'd love to share, consider calling us. Record your pitch right on our site, themoth.org. The best pitches are developed for Moth shows all around the world. And you might even hear yourself on the radio one day. After our break, a woman who is always hidden from death, sits face to face with the dying. When The Moth Radio Hour continues.

• 16:34Speaker 04

  The Moth Radio Hour is produced by Atlantic Public Media in Woods Hole, Massachusetts.

• 16:45Speaker 05

  Today's episode is brought to you by Vinted. We've all got that designated chair or corner in the bedroom piled high with clothes we keep telling ourselves we'll definitely wear, but never actually do. My pile has reached critical mass, and it's past time for decisive action. Declutter or bust. Thankfully, I just learned about Vinted, a secondhand marketplace app that makes it easy to give your pre-loved fashion a second life, and earn some extra cash in the process. Snapping photos and listing my pieces on Vinted can fit right into my afternoon routine without any hassle. The whole process is simple. Once an item sells, Vinted creates the prepaid shipping label for you, taking all the headache out of shipping things out. And there are no seller fees, so every bit of profit goes straight into your bank account,

• 17:29Speaker 05

  instead of being eaten up by hidden costs. You can refresh your wardrobe and make room in your closet at the same time, an all-around win. Give your clothes a second life with Vinted. Download the Vinted app for free to start selling with no seller fees, so you keep everything you earn.

• 17:43Speaker 00

  Please hold me. My firstborn child has gone off to middle school with his first cellphone. Aside from the feelings around all of it, the whole process was super easy. If you're looking for a great service without overpaying, Mint Mobile is definitely worth checking out. The service has been reliable and it gives me such peace of mind, knowing that if my sweet kid is riding the subway with no adults, he always has enough signal to say, hey, mommy, I'm heading home. And I love that I'm saving money on my wireless bill. Mint fixes everything annoying about phone companies by offering premium wireless for just $15 a month right now, for every single plan, even unlimited, giving you high-speed data and unlimited talk and text on the nation's largest 5G network. To get your new wireless plan for just $15 a month, go to mintmobile.com/moth. That's mintmobile.com/moth.

• 18:26Speaker 00

  Cut your wireless bill to $15 a month at mintmobile.com/moth. That's it, there's no catch. Upfront payment of $45 for three months, $90 for six months, or $180 for 12 months, plan required. $18 per month, equivalent. Taxes and fees extra. Initial plan term only. Greater than 50GB may slow when network is busy. Includes up to 20GB hotspot. Capable device required. Availability, speed and coverage varies. See mintmobile.com. I don't know if it's the memory of getting new clothes for back to school, but when fall comes around, I get excited about shopping. I bought a thick, black cotton sweater, the perfect transitional piece. And I'm also eyeing some corduroy pants, a suede tote and a sharp trench coat. Because Quince gets it all right. Style, comfort and affordability. Quince offers luxury quality at accessible prices, including cashmere sweaters that start at just $50.

• 19:11Speaker 00

  They cut out unnecessary retail middlemen and partner directly with ethical factories, saving you 50 to 80% compared to similar brands. They also carry down jackets, fine jewelry and luxury bath essentials. Find the fall pieces you'll reach for most at Quince. Download the Quince app for app-exclusive offers, or go to quince.com. Get free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Now available in Canada and the UK, too. And when Quince asks you where you heard about them, let them know it was The Moth. It's the best way to support the show.

• 19:46Sarah Austin Jenness?

  This is The Moth Radio Hour. I'm Sarah Austin Jenness. Not to be a downer, but one thing that unites us all is that our time in life is finite. We all die. No matter your religion, creed, choices in life, we all have a final exit at some point. Lori Syverson, our next storyteller, applied to a Moth workshop more than five years ago. But instead of taking the workshop, I asked if she'd like to consider a story for The Moth main stage. She's a death walker. Yes, a death walker. It's the old medieval term for what we now know as a death doula. And this is her genesis story.

• 20:27Sarah Austin Jenness?

  Live from East Lansing, Michigan, where we partnered with the Wharton Center for Performing Arts, here's Lori Syverson.

• 20:37Speaker 00

  I was 47 years old and I knew in my heart that it was now or never. So I went over to the kitchen junk drawer and pulled the Yellow Pages out. I flipped the book to the list of hospice organizations and I started right at the top making phone calls. Aurora Hospice, Brookdale, Compassionate Care. My stomach was in a ball of knots and what I really wanted was for no one to answer the phone. And on those first three calls, no one did. But I pushed myself to make that next phone call. And that phone call was to Heartland Hospice.

• 21:20Speaker 00

  After the first ring, a woman answered the phone and she said, "Heartland Hospice, this is Peggy, how can I help you?" I said, "Hi Peggy, my name is Lori. I'm really nervous. I don't know if I really want to do this, but I think I'd like to volunteer in hospice." Well, a month after that phone call, I had completed my training and I was volunteering as a hospice companion. I pushed myself to make those phone calls because at 16 years old, I couldn't get over the death of my grandmother. And I carried that guilt around with me for such a long time.

• 22:05Speaker 00

  So here I was, 30 years later, now volunteering as a hospice companion. And I wasn't sure what to do. My family consisted of me, my brother, my mom, my dad, and Mamie, my grandmother. Mamie moved in with my parents before I was born, so I didn't know any other kind of family. She was my rock and my BFF. Then, in 1975, when I was 15, Mamie was diagnosed with cancer. We shared a bedroom together and one night I woke to Mamie moaning and groaning in pain.

• 22:46Speaker 00

  I didn't know what to do, so I did nothing. I remember like it was yesterday. I laid in bed and I pulled the blankets over my head, I was as stiff as a board, and I tried not to breathe so Mamie wouldn't know that I was awake. She stumbled out of bed to wake my parents. While my dad got up, he was in the bathroom getting dressed, mom and Mamie sat in the living room. And I thought, "This is my best friend. What I really wanted to do was go in there and give her a big hug and tell her that I loved her." But I didn't. You know what I did?

• 23:27Speaker 00

  I snuck into the kitchen where I hid underneath the table, like a three-year-old playing hide and seek. But I wasn't three. I was 16 years old and I was old enough to know better. Well, before anybody even knew that I was there, I slithered right back into bed. Mamie died the next day. I wasn't there. I never told her that I loved her and I never gave her that hug. So here I was, 30 years later, volunteering as a hospice companion. As a companion, you spend time with patients.

• 24:11Speaker 00

  You listen, maybe you read to them, play cards. But after six months with Heartland, there was still that anchor around my heart because I wasn't there for Mamie when she died. And I wondered if there was something else that I could do to not only help other people, but to heal me. So that's when I became a death walker. As a companion, you help hospice patients on their death journey all the time. But as a death walker, you're even closer to death. You're sitting with patients that are actively dying.

• 24:56Speaker 00

  They may have only days or hours left. At that point, some people see things. Other people, they can't speak. For others, their breathing has fits and starts. And for some others, their heart gets so weak that it can't pump enough blood to keep the color in their face. Believe me, I was way outside of my comfort zone. Alfred was the first person that Peggy assigned to me as a death walker. He was a frail man in his 80s. He was actively dying and he had no one else.

• 25:41Speaker 00

  He was the first patient that I sat with by myself, without any backup from Heartland Hospice in the room with me. He was living in a nursing home and when I got there, I walked down the hallway toward his room and I heard whining. I walked a little further. That whining and the distress sounds, they were coming from Alfred's room. I got to his door. It was mostly closed, but it was open just a crack. And then I froze at Alfred's door, the same way I froze in bed with Mamie. And I didn't go in. I was scared to death.

• 26:25Speaker 00

  I just stood there, wondering what to do. And then I realized that the reason Peggy asked me to be with Alfred was because he had no one else. So I closed my eyes, I took a deep breath, I pushed the door open and I walked in. There was a metal chair in the corner of the room, so I dragged it across the linoleum floor closer to Alfred's bed. I bent over and I rubbed his arm and I said, "Hi Alfred, my name is Lori and I'm going to sit with you for a while tonight. Oh, and Alfred, there's one thing I need to tell you.

• 27:08Speaker 00

  I'm really new at this whole hospice thing and I really don't know what to do, but don't worry, everything's going to be okay." Well, guess what? I lied to Alfred because in my head, I kept thinking, "Holy shit, what am I doing here? This is crazy." But you know what? Alfred made it through the night and so did I. Peggy called me later the next day to tell me that Alfred had passed away. You know, I was sad, but then I was relieved. Not relieved for me, but relieved for Alfred.

• 27:52Speaker 00

  Well, after Alfred, Peggy called me two or three times a week, looking for assistance for people to sit with. I couldn't say no, but I was still really nervous. But I felt that I did help Alfred in some small way, so maybe there were others that I could help. Jeff was 53 and he was dying of pancreatic cancer. I had been volunteering with Heartland for 18 months at the time that I met Jeff and still, no one had died on my watch. I know it sounds crazy, but in this mixed up head of mine, I really wanted to be there when someone died.

• 28:35Speaker 00

  Because, you know, in my mind, that was a way I could make it up to Mamie. I wasn't there for her, but maybe I could be there for someone else. Well, right from the start, I knew that Jeff would be different. We had an immediate connection. And the other thing different about Jeff was, he wasn't ready to die. He was afraid. He was a journalist and he was working on a big story. He was really hoping that he could finish that story before his decline. So I made a deal with him. "Jeff, if you're able to write the story, I'll do the research for you." That was our pact. You know, that day, oh my gosh, we talked for hours.

• 29:20Speaker 00

  We talked about the story, family and friends, his illness, death. And then we talked about serendipity. And he asked me if I knew what that meant. I said, "Oh, sure, I saw that movie with John Cusick. You know, you wish for something and poof, it automatically appears." Well, he kind of chuckled. He didn't laugh at me, but he chuckled and he said, "For him, serendipity was coming across something meaningful and important when you least expected it." And he said, "That was me." And thanked me for everything that I had done for him. But you know, the reality was Jeff did more for me than I could ever have done for him.

• 30:05Speaker 00

  Because it was Jeff that made me realize, maybe I didn't need to be there at the exact time someone died. Maybe my purpose was just to be there, to connect with people and to help them feel that their life was important, even in those last days. So Jeff and I decided that we'd get together four days later to work on that story. But three days later, Peggy called. Jeff had passed away. I was devastated because Jeff still had so much more to his story.

• 30:49Speaker 00

  Lillian was 92 years old and she had a full head of perfectly coiffed hair even laying in her deathbed. Her daughter lived out of state and she was doing everything she possibly could to get to Lillian. But in the meantime, I would be one of her death walkers. At the time that I met Lillian, I had been volunteering for three years. And every time I met a patient, I was anxious and nervous. But with Lillian, it was different. I walked into her room and the shades were pulled up to let in the bright sunshine. Her voice was quiet and raspy, but still so full of life.

• 31:31Speaker 00

  At the end of the first day that I was with Lillian, she looked at me and said, can you please leave the window open before you leave? That way, when I die, I'll be able to get to the other side. There was no sadness in her voice. It was just contentment. And boy, I made sure that I left the window open before I left. I came back the next day and Lillian had declined. The blackout shades were pulled down on the window. The wool blanket that was at the foot of her bed was pulled up and tucked tight around her. The conversation ceased and her breathing was very heavy.

• 32:14Speaker 00

  I sat on the tattered orange chair next to her bed and I put my hand underneath that wool blanket and I held her hand. And I said, Lillian, everything's gonna be okay. Your daughter's almost here. Then I leaned in a little closer and I whispered to her, Lillian, the window is open. When you get to the other side, can you please tell my grandmother Mamie that I love her? She's gonna be looking for you. A couple of minutes later, there was one last gasp of breath. And Lillian was gone.

• 32:57Speaker 00

  I sat there a few minutes longer quietly, just holding her hand because I wanted to make sure that Lillian had enough time to get to the window. Couple of weeks later, I got a note in the mail from Lillian's daughter thanking me for being with Lillian when she couldn't be there. But you know, that note was so much more than a thank you. What it really said was, while I couldn't be there for Mamie, I was there for Lillian and everybody else. I hope Mamie would be proud. Thank you.

• 33:37Sarah Austin Jenness?

  Lori Syverson has been a death walker for over 14 years now. I talked with her a bit about her work and this culture of silence around death. In your story, you hid from death, but many people hide from death. Why do you think we look away from death in this culture?

• 34:06Speaker 00

  I don't, I don't think we're as open with it as, as other cultures. I remember when I was younger, my parents wouldn't let me go to a funeral. And it was something that we didn't talk about. And when someone would get sick and if they were terminal or they were ready to, to move on, they would go to a hospital. They certainly wouldn't be there with their family members in the home or, or anything like that. I look at my granddaughters and the oldest is 10 years old. She's already been to her great-grandparents funeral, three of them, a friend's funeral. She knows what it means to die.

• 34:50Speaker 00

  When my mother passed away, so she had to be maybe seven or eight at the time. And she asked me if I would go up to the coffin with her so she could see my mom. And she went up there and she touched my mom's hand and she just wanted to know what it was like. So yes, I think my grandchildren in particular will, will look at death very differently. They won't have the same regret that I did for 30 some years.

• 35:18Sarah Austin Jenness?

  I remember you telling me some of the things you've seen at the very end that were similar for people who were actively dying, no matter their age or their religion.

• 35:30Speaker 00

  Yeah, it was my experience in hospice that really confirmed to me that there is something more. I don't exactly know how many people I've sat with. It's been 14 years, I think 120 people. I have had men and women. I've had many different religions, but there's a common theme to what they see and what they feel. And the one of them is having your bags packed. Where's my luggage? And we were told in training for hospice, if somebody asks like, where's luggage or I'm ready to go on my trip, just go along with it.

• 36:14Speaker 00

  Because in their mind, that's the journey that they're gonna be taking, traveling to the other side. And for my mom, it wasn't luggage, but she had her purse hanging on the doorknob. And she said, well, my purse over there. I said, well, would you like it? Do you want me to get it for you? No, no, that's okay. I just want to know where it is because I'm gonna be going out soon. But as I said, I remember a woman who was brought up in the Hindu tradition, the Jewish tradition. And the stories are very, very similar, which gave me peace when it was my mom's time.

• 36:55Sarah Austin Jenness?

  To see photos of Lori Syverson, go to themoth.org. And a note that hospice organizations are always looking for volunteer companions. So you may just want to open the phone book yourself, like Lori did, and make a call. After the break, a mother in New Hampshire takes her young sons to a family funeral and reunion in the Bronx when The Moth Radio Hour continues. The Moth Radio Hour is produced by Atlantic Public Media in Woods Hole, Massachusetts.

• 37:37Speaker 04

  The Moth Radio Hour is produced by Atlantic Public Media in Woods Hole, Massachusetts.

• 37:49Speaker 05

  Buy smart, drive for less, and trade for more. That's Toyota affordability. And it all starts with a great deal from your local Toyota dealer. Make a smart buy on an all-wheel-drive Camry, Corolla Cross, or get a Corolla sedan packed with the latest features, advanced tech, and head-turning style. Take a test drive in two of Toyota's most popular SUVs, the spacious, family-friendly Grand Highlander and adventure-ready RAV4. And with so many hybrid and plug-in hybrid models available across the lineup, plus efficient all-electrics like the BZ, BZ Woodland, and all-wheel-drive CHR, you can drive your way and skip the pump. And long after you leave the lot, your Toyota keeps delivering with legendary resale value, built on a reputation for quality and reliability. So when it's time for your next Toyota, you could trade in for more.

• 38:33Speaker 05

  From a great deal today to a great value tomorrow, a Toyota is right for you. Shop toyota.com for deals and details, or stop by your local Toyota dealer today. Toyota, let's go places. Did you know your dentist might actually spot serious health issues before your regular doctor does? That blew my mind when I learned it, but what happens in your mouth doesn't stay there. It impacts your heart, your brain, and your entire body. In fact, poor oral health is directly linked to long-term conditions like heart disease, diabetes, and even Alzheimer's. That is why what Smile Generation does matters. They connect you with trusted experts who focus on a whole-body approach to dental care. They know that when your health isn't holding you back, you unlock a completely new level of confidence to show up for the people who matter most.

• 39:18Speaker 05

  Being proactive with regular screenings means catching potential issues early, playing the long game for your well-being, and taking real control of your future. Taking care of your smile really is taking care of your whole self. To learn more about the connection between oral health and overall health, visit SmileGeneration.com/moth. That's SmileGeneration.com/moth to learn more about the mouth-body connection and find a trusted provider near you.

• 39:47Sarah Austin Jenness?

  You're listening to The Moth Radio Hour from PRX. I'm Sarah Austin Janess. In Tarot, the death card is actually the sign of a rebirth. It's a transformation, the end of something and the beginning of something new. After wildfire comes new growth. After someone dies, we sit shiva, have sky burials, Viking burials, jazz funerals. There's Dia de los Muertos, the Day of the Dead. In almost all cases and communities, death involves ritual and a community gathering. Many times funerals are celebrations of life and lineage. Every year, we have a Moth main stage in Greenwood Cemetery in Brooklyn.

• 40:31Sarah Austin Jenness?

  I live very close to it, actually. It's almost 500 acres of gorgeous statues, catacombs, graves, and life. Flowers, trees, green, green grass. In fact, they call Greenwood a park that the dead have made for the living. And it was in Greenwood Cemetery where we partnered with the Greenwood Historic Fund, onstage as the sun set and the fireflies danced, that Jerry Ann Bogus told our final story in this hour, all about reconnecting to her Jamaican roots. Here's Jerry Ann Bogus, live at The Moth.

• 41:11Speaker 00

  When I left my island 30-odd years ago, I carried with me the most important things I had, the stories of my great aunts. They gave me strength and courage, even today, as I tell this story. I remember the day I got the call from my cousin that my great aunt, Mumzie, had died. I wasn't surprised by the call at all, because two days ago, before the call, a whole flock of crows had landed on our front lawn. Those harbingers of death told me something was happening, and it was the passing of my great aunt.

• 41:56Speaker 00

  I believed in all those signs, coming from an island where the veil between the living world and the dead world was so very thin. And if you grew up with my grandfather, you'd believe in it, too, for he scared us half to death with stories of the rolling calf, those mythical beasts that breathe fire and roam the countrysides, especially cemeteries like this, gathering souls for the underworld. That was one of the things I really wanted my own kids to have, this deep respect for the mythical, mysterious world.

• 42:41Speaker 00

  I took them to the cemetery one night to see New Hampshire's famed ghost, the Blue Lady. And the Blue Lady only comes out when the moon is full. And I did just what my grandfather did. I scared them half to death.

• 43:00Speaker 00

  There was another reason that I really was happy to get the call, because it meant that I could come to New York to see my family that I hadn't seen in years. But most of all, it was an opportunity for me to engage my sons in the Jamaican culture. Because if you know anything about the Jamaican culture, everything, I mean, everything, happens at a funeral. Growing up in New Hampshire, I had always thought my sons, that they were the best of both worlds, black and white. They were my little cups of chocolate milk, until that six-year-old neighbor next door

• 43:45Speaker 00

  burst that little bubble that we lived in. See, I remember that day when my son came in. I'll remember it clearly for the rest of my life. "Mommy, mommy, am I an N-word? Am I dirty?" My whole world crashed that day, because I had lived in this bubble of sweetness, this saccharine space. And now I felt anger, resentment, and, most of all, fear. I had taught my kids that being the best of both worlds, they belonged.

• 44:29Speaker 00

  After all, they were Americans. And unlike me, who was from somewhere else, I always thought that they would never feel that otherness, that separation from being here. So that excuse to go to New York was welcomed. My kids were in the back of the car, really complaining, because they were dressed in their brand-new funeral suits, itchy, striped vests, shoes, shiny shoes. And we got to the Bronx just in time to sit in the back of the church in the pews. I had forgotten what a funeral was like, how wedding-like a funeral was.

• 45:13Speaker 00

  The flamboyant church hats, the Sunday-go-to-church wingtip shoes, the fedora hats rimmed with red ribbon, said to chase ghosts away, the color red. And I was home, just looking around. When the song from the organ blasted in the ear, signaling the start of the mass, my kids jumped. And I looked around at them, and there they were, looking at everything, taking everything in. They saw the altar boys in their red and white outfits

• 45:58Speaker 00

  walking down the aisle, almost enveloped in the smoke from the incense burner. They saw the priest come down in his vestment, almost floating away as he sprinkled the golden embroidered casket with the holy water. That was making a real clunky, clunky, clunky sound as it was carried down the aisle by the pallbearers in their stiff, black suits. I felt great expectation for this church service, because my Aunt Mumzie, she had ordered elaborate Catholic mass,

• 46:42Speaker 00

  and we had to dress our best for this. So can you imagine my surprise when the parish priest started speaking, and this real quiet, almost inaudible voice crept into the congregation? Almost instantly, you could hear the mumbling, the kissing of teeth, rising up in the audience. "Man, I'm boringy!" "Jesus!" "Aunt Mumzie, you're gonna get vexed." "What going on? Somebody tell him to put some life into it, no? And killing us to death."

• 47:26Speaker 00

  Laughter bursted from my lips spontaneously, not just from the sheer irony of what was being said, but from the joy of hearing my Jamaican patois that sinks on cadence that I had missed from living in New Hampshire. My sons turned to me and they said, "Mom, didn't you tell us to be quiet? Why are you laughing? I thought you were supposed to be respectful." Almost instantly, when the service started, my Aunt Ruby, the last of the line, Aunt Mumzie's sister, she got up and staggered to the front of the church.

• 48:10Speaker 00

  Her daughter Denise followed closely behind. The mumbling in the church rose to almost a crescendo. "Wait, wait, what's the matter? Jesus, she dead? Aunt Mumzie come for her." The chaos started. Denise was now crouched under the little table in the vestibule, screaming, "Mama dead, mama dead", as if scrunching under the table would protect her from the Grim Reaper himself. My cousin Claude, she had run to the front of the church

• 48:53Speaker 00

  to see the nurse to assess the situation. My other cousin Carl, he was on the phone, and you could hear the aggression in his voice. "I know you all gonna take it's time coming here, you know, this is the Bronx. But if anything happened to my auntie today, you all dead." And, worse than that, my born-again evangelical cousin, she was circling Aunt Mumzie's prone body, screaming, "The blood, the blood, the blood! Satan, come out of here!

• 49:30Speaker 00

  Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, I cast him out in the name of Jesus." I had wanted to get out myself and join in the fray, thinking that I would go and comfort my cousin, who was still under the table, or shake some sense into my screeching cousin. But my kids were grabbing onto my sleeves, and they said, "Mommy, mommy, what's going on? Is there a rolling calf here? Did they come for Aunt Ruby? Was she bad? Be careful what you teach your kids. It might just come back to haunt you."

• 50:18Speaker 00

  So the medic finally came and they told us that Aunt Ruby was okay. She hadn't regained consciousness yet, but her heart was beating fine and she had a steady breath. And you could hear the whole church exhale in relief. Now, the Jamaican tradition, after the funeral, after the burial, there's usually a celebration. It's called the nine-night celebration. You see, we believe that after nine nights, after all the tears, they had to be laughter, or else the spirit of the dearly departed would stay around to comfort you or to cause havoc.

• 51:03Speaker 00

  So there had to be a celebration. So the celebration was Aunt Mumsy's house. You could hear the calypso music blaring across the neighborhood even miles before you got there. And as my boys and I walked to the backyard with kids running everywhere, you could smell and almost taste the aromas of the Jamaican food. There was a pot of Manischew water, a goat soup that is said to turn boys into men boiling on the stove. And it mixed that aroma with the aroma of the jerk chicken, the curry goat, the bammy, the rice and peas. Mmm.

• 51:48Speaker 00

  I was immediately transformed to my childhood, those flavors. And just like back home, the men were bringing out the Domino's and the white rum, gotta have white rum. And the older ladies were sharing the food. And the older men were gathering everybody around the barbecue where they were holding court, each trying to outdo the other with a telling of the day's event. Some of them even said that Aunt Mumsy must have been really jealous of her sister because her younger sister got all the attention that day.

• 52:30Speaker 00

  And this was Mumsy's day, her last day on earth. As I gathered my son around me and we sat on the ground to listen to the stories, I was so comforted because this is exactly what I wanted for my kids, this engrossment, the story, the songs. And I felt comforted because I had given my boys something that I really wanted to have, the solid understanding of our roots. And as we listened to the stories of how my Aunt Mumsy, when she had first come to

• 53:11Speaker 00

  the country and she tried to be a nurse, how she had to pass for white because the hospitals wouldn't hire blacks, and how she colored her, powdered her skin several shades lighter, and the almost, the pain that caused her just to make a living, the anxiety that she had with doing that. We heard the stories of how she saved every penny to bring her siblings here for a better life. And my boys, hearing these stories, seeing the courage and the strength that we had,

• 53:53Speaker 00

  they knew without a shadow of a doubt that they come from a strong line of people, of people who knew how to survive in any instance. And that's what I wanted them to have. And as we loaded up the car with foods, I would never get in New Hampshire because there's no Jamaican stores. And as we drove off, I remember the words that Maya Angelou said when asked if she ever got nervous when she stand on stage alone. And she said, "I come as one, but I stand as 10,000. All my ancestors are here with me.

• 54:38Speaker 00

  And tonight, all my ancestors are standing right here with me in the cemetery, my aunties, giving me strength and courage, my sons, my grandchildren. We know from where we come. We know the stock that we belong to, and we know without a shadow of a doubt, we belong." Thank you.

• 55:06Sarah Austin Jenness?

  Jerry Ann Bogus is an immigrant, a visionary, and a social justice activist. She's the executive director of the Black Heritage Trail of New Hampshire, which tells the true stories of Black history in New Hampshire and America. Since this funeral more than a decade ago, Jerry Ann says she and her boys have played a lot of Jamaican music, and they visit the island and see family all the time. To see photos of Jerry Ann and her sons and this bright celebration of life, go to themoth.org.

• 55:50Sarah Austin Jenness?

  I've been watching a lot of interviews with the Dalai Lama lately to prepare to meet with him in India on behalf of The Moth, and people like to ask him if he's afraid of death. And in every instance, his holiness answers, "Fear of death is a waste of time. Death is part of life." And that's it for this episode of The Moth Radio Hour. Thank you for taking the time to listen. We hope you'll join us next time.

• 56:18Speaker 04

  This episode of The Moth Radio Hour was produced by me, Jay Allison, Catherine Burns, and Sarah Austin Jenness, who also hosted and directed the stories in the show, along with Maggie Sino. Co-producer is Vicki Merrick, associate producer Emily Couch. The rest of The Moth's leadership team includes Sarah Haberman, Jennifer Hickson, Kate Tellers, Jennifer Birmingham, Marina Kluch, Suzanne Rust, Brandon Grant, Inga Glodowski, Sarah Jane Johnson, and Aldi Kazim. Special thanks to the Hollywood Foreign Press Association, which provided sponsorship

• 57:03Speaker 04

  for the Leap of Faith main stage in which Bruce McCullough told his story. Moth stories are true, as remembered and affirmed by the storytellers. Our theme music is by The Drift. Other music in this hour is from Epidemic Sound and Blue Dot Sessions. Podcast music, production support from Davey Sumner. We receive funding from the National Endowment for the Arts. The Moth Radio Hour is produced by Atlantic Public Media in Woods Hole, Massachusetts. Special thanks to our friends at Odyssey, including executive producer Leah Reese Dennis. For more about our podcast, for information on pitching us your own story and everything else, go to our website, themoth.org.

• 57:46Sarah Austin Jenness?

  With over 600 live events each year, plus the production of our storytelling workshops and The Moth Radio Hour and podcast, it takes a lot to keep The Moth moving. And the other day, I was browsing the Vistaprint site, and I thought, Vistaprint can be an incredible resource for us. We can use Vistaprint to customize banners for our stage backdrop, walking into an event where your signage matches your merch instantly gives you that polished, established look that we love. Vistaprint gives you so much more than what you paid for, offering top-tier quality that makes your business look like a million bucks without blowing your budget.

• 58:28Sarah Austin Jenness?

  Plus, with real people and intuitive tools ready to help you nail every design detail, you get complete assurance from start to finish. There's a real reason over 17 million small businesses rely on Vistaprint to elevate their brand. Vistaprint, print your possible. Right now, new customers get 20% off with code NEW20 at Vistaprint.com. That's 20% off at Vistaprint.com using code NEW20.