Presenting Office Ladies: Work Friendship

Today we’re bringing you an episode from our friends, Office Ladies hosts Jenna Fischer and Angela Kinsey. In honor of Best Friends Day, we are handing the mic over to the duo who turned a "work friendship" into a lifelong sisterhood. Jenna and Angela reflect on the invisible strings that connect us to our people. Find Office Ladies wherever you get podcasts.

• 0:03Speaker 00

  At The Moth, we talk a lot about the moments that change us. The big pivots, the grand adventures. But often, the most transformative parts of our lives aren't the things we do, but the people we do them with. The ones who know our coffee orders, our childhood secrets, and exactly which version of a bad day we're currently having. Today, we're doing something special. We're sharing an episode from our friends over at Office Ladies. Jenna Fischer and Angela Kinsey spent years playing characters who weren't exactly best friend material to one another on screen. But off-camera, they built a bond that has spanned decades. In this episode, they're honoring the history that shaped them and the future they're still building together. You can find Office Ladies everywhere you get your podcasts.

• 0:46Speaker 00

  And stay right here for more from Jenna and Angela.

• 0:55Speaker 01

  I'm Jenna Fischer. And I'm Angela Kinsey. We were on The Office together, and we're best friends. And now, we're doing the ultimate Office Lovers podcast just for you. Each week, we will dive deeper into the world of The Office with exclusive interviews, behind-the-scenes details, and lots of VFF stories. We're the Office Ladies 6.0.

• 1:17Speaker 01

  Hello. Hi there. Welcome to Office Ladies 6.0. Today, we have a really special episode. I know we say that a lot, but I love this one. We've always wanted to do an episode around best friendship. And this is in honor of Best Friends Day. That is June 8. Yes. National Best Friends Day is this Sunday, June 8, and we thought it would be fun to celebrate. So, we asked you all to write in about your best friends, and we're going to share some of your letters. They were so wonderful to read. If you want to be in a good mood, they should put together a book of just people sharing a story about their best friend. Because it made me so happy. And also, Angela did a little deep dive on office friendships. But I thought I could kick things off with some stats

• 2:02Speaker 01

  about Best Friends Day. You know I love a stat. Did you know there are actually two Best Friend Days? No. One is national, and one is international. Okay. That's always a little confusing. You know, if you're on the social media and you do the hashtag, and you see people doing National Best Friends Day, or whatever it is, National Cat Day. You did international, and then you're like, oh crap, which one is it?

• 2:28Speaker 02

  Well, I'll tell you now.

• 2:29Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 2:30Speaker 02

  This Sunday, June 8th, is National Best Friends Day. And that was established in 1935 by our United States Congress.

• 2:39Speaker 01

  How about that?

• 2:40Speaker 02

  I didn't even know that they were the ones who did that.

• 2:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:44Speaker 02

  They wanted to honor the bonds of friendship and recognize the positive impact that friends have on our lives. And they chose June 8th because it is generally a time of good weather across the whole country, making it a pleasant time of year to spend time outdoors with your friends.

• 3:03Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 3:03Speaker 02

  So I think they're wanting you to get outside, everybody.

• 3:06Speaker 01

  And do something with your BFF.

• 3:07Speaker 02

  Exactly. Then, in 2011, the United Nations declared July 30th as International Friendship Day. And this was to recognize the importance of friendships in promoting peace and understanding among communities and nations.

• 3:25Speaker 01

  Well, I like both of those.

• 3:26Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm. And then, you know, there's a lot of ways you can celebrate Best Friends Day this Sunday. But Cassie, I think you would like this way. The New York Public Library made a list of 15 novels about friendship to read with your bestie.

• 3:41Speaker 01

  That sounds awesome.

• 3:43Speaker 02

  Yes. They said these novels feature a range of friendship stories, from lighthearted and affirming to explorations of how friendships can break apart and come back together. So we can put a link to them in stories.

• 3:56Speaker 01

  Yes, please.

• 3:57Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 3:58Speaker 01

  Well, you know, it's my belief that one of the reasons The Office was such a huge success and continues to be is because at its core, it's centered around friendships.

• 4:08Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 4:09Speaker 01

  I mean, I think maybe Michael said it best.

• 4:13Speaker 03

  The people that you work with are just, when you get down to it, your very best friends?

• 4:20Speaker 01

  Aw, I know.

• 4:23Speaker 01

  And you know, according to the internet, and there are a lot, a lot of articles about the friendships that are on The Office. But here is one that lists the 10 best friendships in their opinion. Ready? Number 10, Erin and Phyllis.

• 4:38Speaker 02

  Oh, yes.

• 4:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, they were very sweet. Number 9 is the only threesome, Oscar, Angela, and Kevin. Best friends.

• 4:47Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 4:48Speaker 01

  Number 8, Jim and Michael. Number 7, Erin and Nellie. Number 6, Jim and Pam. They did start as good friends.

• 4:56Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 4:57Speaker 01

  Number 5, Phyllis and Stanley. I mean, come on.

• 5:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 5:00Speaker 01

  Right? Number 4, Phyllis and Angela were listed as friends.

• 5:06Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 5:07Speaker 01

  Huh, I know. Maybe more like frenemies for those 2, a little bit. Number 3, Dwight and Pam, which I love. Dwight calls Pam his best friend.

• 5:17Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 5:18Speaker 01

  Number 2, Michael and Dwight.

• 5:20Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 5:21Speaker 01

  And I would say, yes, I mean, that's who Dwight wanted to be his best man.

• 5:24Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 5:25Speaker 01

  Number 1 on the list of best friends at The Office? Any guesses?

• 5:31Speaker 02

  Ah, no. Who's left?

• 5:36Speaker 01

  Is it Kelly and Ryan?

• 5:38Speaker 02

  That's the only person I could think of.

• 5:40Speaker 01

  No. Such a strange relationship. This is that everyone unanimously online said the number 1 best friendship on The Office. Michael and Holly? No, but that's good, Sam. That is really good. That's really good. Jim and Dwight. I know, that's what they said. They had their ups and downs, but in the end, you know, Jim says, oh my gosh, remember that line? He's like, I can't believe I'm saying this, I miss Dwight. I mean, they sort of had this weird dude-on-and-off-again friendship, but this is up for discussion because I feel like they left a few really big ones off the list. I think Andy and Daryl became good friends. Pam and Michael?

• 6:18Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 6:19Speaker 01

  Pam and Michael.

• 6:20Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 6:21Speaker 01

  Right? And then, you know, I do like that they say Angela, Oscar, and Kevin, but I think Angela and Oscar had their own true friendship.

• 6:29Speaker 02

  Yes, I agree.

• 6:31Speaker 01

  And then, I would say they left off 1. If they're gonna put Phyllis and Angela on there, I think there's a frenemies category for Angela and Pam. But see what I mean? There's so many, like, friendships. That grow over the years of this show and people watch that and they feel it. And I think it's so wonderful that one of the biggest takeaways from watching The Office are these friendships that people connect to.

• 6:53Speaker 02

  And the friendships represent the very wide range of friendships.

• 6:58Speaker 01

  This is true.

• 6:58Speaker 02

  Which includes, I think, the category of frenemies. Or it includes like, you're sort of like, how did this person become my friend? But they are, you know? Like, it kind of covers all the different categories.

• 7:10Speaker 01

  Or the friend that drives you crazy and you prank, but you end up planning their bachelor party.

• 7:15Speaker 02

  Exactly. Well, we got a letter, speaking of frenemies, that I wanted to read. It's from Alison S. in Edmonton, Canada, who said, "My best friend is named Lauren. We worked together as dance teachers. When she was first hired, I did not like her. She was given some classes I wanted to be teaching, and I felt an instant rivalry. Luckily, with time, her charm cleared away any thoughts of rivalry and forced me to admit she was awesome, and I was thrilled when it seemed we could instead become friends. Our friendship took off when we helped each other box dye our hair in her bathtub and realized we both did a terrible job."

• 7:58Speaker 01

  Oh, my gosh.

• 8:00Speaker 02

  "We had splotchy hair color for weeks. And our connection solidified when we took a work trip to Disney World and were paired together for everything from rides to sharing a bed. When she got married in a small, family-only ceremony, I was asked to be there as the photographer. I have zero photography experience."

• 8:18Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 8:20Speaker 02

  "And felt so lucky to be included in the day. Her husband agreed that there was no way I could miss it. They've moved to Seattle now, and while the distance is so hard, we used to live across the street from each other. We're still best friends and have video chats and voice memos to tide us over in between visits. She's changed my life forever. We both love office ladies and have frequently compared our friendship to Jenna and Angela."

• 8:44Speaker 01

  Aww.

• 8:45Speaker 02

  I love that they started kind of as frenemies.

• 8:48Speaker 01

  Yeah. I love their whole story about the dying their hair and it being all patchy.

• 8:54Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 8:55Speaker 01

  I also love that they stay in touch with voice memos and video chat because there's been many times in our lives and our friendship when we weren't in the same city.

• 9:03Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 9:04Speaker 01

  And we did that. And I knew your whole life.

• 9:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 9:07Speaker 01

  Because we were so dedicated to sharing and keeping each other in the loop. And that's so special.

• 9:13Speaker 02

  So cool. I loved it.

• 9:14Speaker 01

  Well, up next, I have a fun thing for us to do, and you guys can do this with us. I'll put a link in stories. But BuzzFeed did an online quiz to determine, quote, "Who would be your best friend at the office if you worked at Dunder Mifflin?"

• 9:28Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 9:29Speaker 01

  So, all right.

• 9:30Speaker 02

  How do we do it?

• 9:31Speaker 01

  Well, everyone, go to their phones. I am texting you a link. We all have to do it individually, and then we have to share our answer. I'm gonna read the questions that we're all gonna do out loud, so people will know.

• 9:44Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 9:45Speaker 01

  First one, what do you do in your free time? The choices are self-defense lessons, hang out with friends, doodle at a cafe, illegal stuff, cook, perfect my comedy routine, shop, or yoga class?

• 9:59Speaker 02

  Okay. I did it.

• 10:02Speaker 01

  Okay. Next one. Ready?

• 10:05Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 10:05Speaker 01

  How would you describe yourself? Talented, above average, relaxed, inspirational, cool, resourceful, sweet, smart?

• 10:15Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 10:16Speaker 01

  All right. What is your place in the office? Are you the moral support, the queen, the best, the boss, the prankster, the snacker, the comedian, the glue?

• 10:27Speaker 02

  Okay, Angela, I need to know what you're pressing.

• 10:30Speaker 01

  Why?

• 10:31Speaker 02

  Because I just need to know the answer. I need to know your assessment of yourself on this question.

• 10:37Speaker 01

  Okay. I would say I'm the glue. Sam, Cassie, how do we feel about her answer?

• 10:43Speaker 04

  I put I'm the glue.

• 10:44Speaker 05

  I put I'm the glue.

• 10:46Speaker 02

  Oh, my gosh, I'm the queen.

• 10:50Speaker 02

  But Angela, I had you as the snacker.

• 10:53Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 10:54Speaker 05

  I probably put you for moral support.

• 10:56Speaker 02

  Thank you. I would have thought of you as moral support or the snacker, but I've decided to be the queen.

• 11:02Speaker 01

  That's good.

• 11:03Speaker 04

  Well, the queen in three glues is perfect.

• 11:06Speaker 02

  Is that how we do office ladies?

• 11:09Speaker 01

  That keeps us, that keeps us all going. Okay, what's your dream job? Model, actor, multimillionaire, athlete, CEO, painter, entrepreneur, or vocalist?

• 11:21Speaker 02

  Okay, I put entrepreneur.

• 11:24Speaker 01

  Are we sharing now?

• 11:25Speaker 02

  Why not?

• 11:26Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 11:26Speaker 02

  It makes it more interesting, I think.

• 11:28Speaker 01

  Okay, Sam, what did you put?

• 11:30Speaker 04

  Athlete.

• 11:31Speaker 01

  Cassie?

• 11:32Speaker 05

  Athlete.

• 11:33Speaker 01

  I put athlete.

• 11:36Speaker 02

  Who am I? I am the outlier of this group.

• 11:40Speaker 01

  Favorite subject? Drama, robotics, physical education, art, after-school clubs, school, question mark, band, and lunch?

• 11:51Speaker 02

  I'm gonna put drama.

• 11:53Speaker 01

  I put drama as well.

• 11:54Speaker 04

  Art.

• 11:55Speaker 05

  I put drama.

• 11:57Speaker 01

  Okay, I like it. Pick a hobby? Internet trolling, comedy, competitive eating, running, programming, debate, volunteering, yoga?

• 12:08Speaker 02

  I put internet trolling.

• 12:10Speaker 01

  Oh, Jenna.

• 12:11Speaker 02

  I'm kidding, I put yoga.

• 12:15Speaker 02

  Oh, my gosh, I found out who I am.

• 12:17Speaker 01

  Oh, my God, I found out who I am.

• 12:19Speaker 04

  I found out who I am.

• 12:20Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 12:21Speaker 05

  I kind of already knew who I was gonna be paired with, and it makes complete sense.

• 12:24Speaker 01

  Okay, go, Sam.

• 12:26Speaker 04

  I'm with Pam. Me and Pam could take art lessons together. We're both kind and have a great sense of humor.

• 12:33Speaker 02

  I like that.

• 12:33Speaker 04

  Sure.

• 12:34Speaker 02

  Cassie, who are you?

• 12:35Speaker 05

  Michael. You and Michael probably met at an improv class, which you both failed. You love to make people laugh.

• 12:42Speaker 04

  You both failed.

• 12:43Speaker 05

  We definitely did.

• 12:44Speaker 01

  Mike, doesn't make any sense to me.

• 12:46Speaker 02

  Who are you?

• 12:47Speaker 01

  Maybe I hit a wrong button. Jim.

• 12:50Speaker 02

  You're Jim?

• 12:51Speaker 01

  It says you and Jim would be best buddies. You love to prank your coworkers. I do not.

• 12:56Speaker 02

  You hate pranks.

• 12:57Speaker 01

  I hate pranks. And you like to relax with your family at the end of the day. That part's true.

• 13:02Speaker 02

  Well, and you are the likable everyman of the office ladies group, Angela.

• 13:07Speaker 01

  Well, okay.

• 13:08Speaker 02

  So that tracks. Guess who I'm friends with?

• 13:10Speaker 01

  Wait, wait.

• 13:11Speaker 05

  Brian Entrepreneur?

• 13:13Speaker 02

  I'm with Jan.

• 13:17Speaker 02

  I'll take it. I'll take it.

• 13:18Speaker 01

  That's a good one.

• 13:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 13:21Speaker 01

  Oh, my goodness, that was so fun. Okay, I'll put the quiz in our stories, too.

• 13:27Speaker 02

  Well, listen, before we go to break, I wanted to share something. This is a personal share. I want to share that I am on the cover of USA Today's and Media Planet's Future of Cancer Care Campaign. It's like a little magazine, you know, that they put inside the newspapers. I'm on the cover.

• 13:44Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 13:45Speaker 02

  It's in honor of National Cancer Survivors' Day, which was this past Sunday, June 1st. And I spoke about my journey, and I do that really just in hopes that it might bring comfort to others.

• 13:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:57Speaker 02

  And they asked me for a photo for the cover, and I didn't know what to give because I haven't, like, done a photo shoot since my hair fell out and it started growing back. I did a picture that Josh took of me when I announced, but I didn't have any other pictures. But then I remembered I did have this one picture that I took. It was when I was doing my campaign for screening time off. I pulled the photographer aside, and I said, I'm getting my port out in two weeks. And I have not taken a picture with it because it's like a thing. Like, I feel conflicted about it. I had this very, like, love-hate relationship with this port.

• 14:39Speaker 02

  It's visible. Yeah. And it's not gruesome.

• 14:41Speaker 01

  It's not gruesome, but it's definitely, you know that there's something there and you, your shirt's covered it, but

• 14:47Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 14:48Speaker 01

  But it would be visible to the eye.

• 14:50Speaker 02

  Yes. It's like a bump under the skin.

• 14:53Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 14:53Speaker 02

  And so I showed it and he took a photo of me.

• 14:58Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 14:59Speaker 02

  And that's the picture that I shared with them. And it was an important thing for me to have. And then it became kind of an important thing for me to share.

• 15:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:07Speaker 02

  I think, I hope that anyone who is going through that will just maybe, I don't know, find something in that picture.

• 15:17Speaker 01

  Yeah. You know, I was with you when you had it removed and that was an emotional day for you. That was

• 15:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 15:23Speaker 01

  Such a, a book into such a journey you had been on.

• 15:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 15:27Speaker 01

  And um, I think that's wonderful that you shared that, Jenna.

• 15:31Speaker 02

  Yeah. I mean, that's a nice share in honor of best friends day. Lee was away shooting his movie in Oklahoma, but they said they could schedule me to get my port out. And Angela, I said to you, I said, well, I guess I'm gonna have to put this off for like two months. I'm gonna have to have this port in me because Lee's not home.

• 15:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:50Speaker 02

  And you said, oh, no, sweetie.

• 15:51Speaker 01

  No, we're getting that done.

• 15:53Speaker 02

  She's like, I've listened to you for one year about this thing. I will get you to the hospital. And I had other moms who each took my kids after school and let them spend the night so that I could recover. And it was just, you know, again, friends coming together.

• 16:10Speaker 01

  A community of friendship. Yeah.

• 16:11Speaker 02

  Who made that happen for me. And now it's out and I have this, I have a scar, which I knew I would have. And I assumed that it wouldn't bother me. I thought, I don't care. I have tons of scars from my surgery, from under my arm, you know, around my breasts, I have scars. And none of them bother me. So I just assumed that the port scar wouldn't bother me. And I don't like it.

• 16:32Speaker 01

  You don't like it?

• 16:33Speaker 02

  I don't. And some people will get like a tattoo over it.

• 16:37Speaker 01

  Have you considered getting a tattoo?

• 16:39Speaker 02

  I don't want a tattoo over it. I feel like that's just gonna make me see it more somehow. Like it

• 16:45Speaker 01

  But you did consider getting a tattoo.

• 16:48Speaker 02

  I did. Consider getting a tattoo.

• 16:50Speaker 01

  Just not there, but just to sort of like.

• 16:52Speaker 02

  In honor of this experience.

• 16:55Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 16:55Speaker 02

  But then I got a fake tattoo for Lee's movie. And I didn't like my fake tattoo. Like, I liked it, but I didn't like that there was like something that kept catching my eye.

• 17:06Speaker 04

  What was your tattoo gonna be?

• 17:08Speaker 02

  Well, I thought that I might want to get a little drawing of the antique bell that I rang after I finished chemo.

• 17:16Speaker 04

  Okay, I like that.

• 17:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 17:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:18Speaker 02

  Or a butterfly. These were my two options, but I'm getting neither, as it turns out. And I'm also not getting a tattoo for my port scar, but yeah, it's just that like, all the other scars, I can avoid them somehow visually. Like, I don't see them, but this one, every time I get out of the shower, there's portie scar. And then like, I wanted to wear a sundress when we went to Hawaii, and it's like, there it is. And I just let it hang out. Like, I'm not gonna like, change how I dress or change anything because it's there, but it bumps me and I, I don't know, maybe that'll go away eventually. And I know that a lot of people try to pump me up and they're like, it's your battle scar. You're a warrior.

• 18:03Speaker 02

  And I'm trying to frame it that way in my head.

• 18:06Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm. You know, I just think it's new. And yeah. You don't love change. And like, you need a little bit of time.

• 18:16Speaker 02

  I guess I do.

• 18:17Speaker 01

  You'll have time with it and it'll be fine.

• 18:19Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 18:19Speaker 01

  You'll get used to it.

• 18:21Speaker 02

  Well, anyway, you can look for the magazine Inside of USA Today. It came out in Chicago this past weekend. It's going nationwide this coming weekend, but you can also find it online. We'll put a link to the article in our show notes. And Angela, will you swipe it up in our stories?

• 18:39Speaker 01

  Of course.

• 18:40Speaker 02

  I also have it linked in my bio on Instagram, so if you have someone going through a cancer journey, maybe it'll be of service to them.

• 18:48Speaker 01

  Well, I just love all of that. And you know what? We're gonna take a break. And when we come back, we are gonna share our very first friendship stories. And some of yours. Yes.

• 19:06Speaker 06

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• 20:03Speaker 07

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• 21:06Speaker 00

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• 22:08Speaker 01

  Well, we're back and I'm gonna go first. I'm gonna talk about my very first best friend. She's still a dear friend of mine to this day. Her name is Corinza and her mom Karina and my mom were best friends in Indonesia. They played tennis together and we were always at each other's houses. She has a big family with lots of older siblings and there was just always so much like hubbub in her house and I just loved it. And her mom Karina is Dutch and she introduced me to my favorite thing, which is mayonnaise with french fries. Oh, do you guys eat mayonnaise on your french fries?

• 22:45Speaker 04

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 22:46Speaker 05

  I do ranch.

• 22:47Speaker 01

  Ranch, well, yeah, okay. But she, anyway, isn't that just such a funny thing that I remember? Like, she'd probably be like, Angela, I introduced you to so many foods, but you remember mayonnaise and french fries. And Corinza's dad is American. He was working overseas like my dad and we were so tiny when we met. I was a toddler. Corinza's two years younger than me. She was just like a little thing in like diapers. And I don't have a memory of my childhood that doesn't include her in that time. It was like she was just always part of my life, because I met her when I was so little.

• 23:23Speaker 02

  Was she in Indonesia the whole time you were? Or did one of you? Who moved away first?

• 23:29Speaker 01

  I moved away first.

• 23:31Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 23:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, and we're so good friends to this day. We check in with each other a lot. Um, we text each other. She is a librarian and she's been a librarian for over 20 years now at a middle school in Austin, Texas. She is so smart and so funny and just an amazing person. And I'm so thankful that I have this childhood friend from such a special time in my life that I'm still in touch with, you know? Because when I started middle school, we moved around a lot and I really just hold close those friendships from back then.

• 24:05Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 24:07Speaker 01

  So shout out to Corinza.

• 24:09Speaker 02

  Well, a lot of the letters we got were from people whose first best friend is still their best friend.

• 24:15Speaker 01

  Yeah. You know what? I want to read one from Alana D. in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. She wrote in and said, "My best friend Cassie and I met when we were three." And she says, "I remember the day. I was new to daycare and always sad when my mother left. Cassie started after me and I remember her first day. I knew then that it would all be okay. We've weathered so much, all over the world. We've noticed how our conversations and how we care for one another have changed over the years. In our teens, we vetted each other's crushes. In our twenties, we nursed hangovers and traveling bugs. In our thirties and forties, we took mom getaways and talked about our aches and pains as we were aging.

• 25:00Speaker 01

  Most recently, Cassie came to Pittsburgh from Boston after I was diagnosed with breast cancer to be with me for the first whirlwind day of appointments. Her presence and us still being able to be us turned a potentially terrible day into something beautiful. She later came to help me recover after my bilateral mastectomy and spent days caring for me. Her family and boss okayed this time away and I'm grateful for how others also honor and give space for our friendship. We are soulmates and I know we can face anything that life brings together. Today was my last round of chemotherapy and we are already planning our next adventure."

• 25:39Speaker 02

  Oh, my gosh!

• 25:40Speaker 01

  That's so sweet.

• 25:41Speaker 02

  Yes!

• 25:43Speaker 01

  Oh, Alana, thank you so much for sharing that. What a wonderful friendship.

• 25:48Speaker 02

  Well, I love that letter.

• 25:49Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 25:49Speaker 02

  I love their friendship. I actually pulled a letter. From Carly B. in Newark, Texas, and it is again about a friendship that started when they were very young. Here's what Carly said. Carly said, "My best friend London and I have been besties since we were seven years old. We are now both in our 30s and living 800 miles apart, but are still bonded together as if we live right down the road from each other. My husband has my caller ID as Light of My Life, and he has London's caller ID as Light of My Wife."

• 26:25Speaker 01

  That's really cute.

• 26:27Speaker 02

  "We are incredibly different people with incredibly different opinions on literally everything, but we are also the exact same person. Somehow it makes sense. We have this bit that's been running for so many years now, and it's hilarious every time it happens. I am a notoriously clumsy person and will drop food on myself at least once a day. If we're together, London will see that I've dropped food on myself and immediately smudge a bite of her food on her clothing in solidarity with me, and we laugh until we can't breathe every time it happens. We talk all the time about the similarities between our friendship and y'all's. We love y'all and the podcast so much. Thanks for all you ladies do."

• 27:08Speaker 01

  I love that she smudges food on her own.

• 27:12Speaker 02

  I know. Isn't that so fun?

• 27:13Speaker 01

  That is so fun. Well, Jenna, do you have a share about your very first best friend?

• 27:18Speaker 02

  I do, and you know, I lost touch with my very first best friend. I don't know her anymore, but her name was Beth, and she lived up the street from me. We just lived in the same cul-de-sac.

• 27:30Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 27:31Speaker 02

  And we were inseparable, and I loved going over to her house. Her mom would not let her eat sugar stuff, like sugar snacks or junk food, but she had this bowl of sugar-free candy lozenges, and I thought they were like the best thing on the planet.

• 27:50Speaker 01

  Isn't it funny, the little things you remember?

• 27:53Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm. Yes, but we would just, you know, we would ride bikes and do things in the neighborhood, and I loved her so much. And then her family moved.

• 28:03Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 28:04Speaker 02

  And I didn't get an address for her. It was sort of very sudden.

• 28:08Speaker 01

  Yes, I mean, this is sort of... Part of our generation is that there weren't ways to stay in touch the same way there are now.

• 28:16Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 28:17Speaker 01

  And I think because my mom and Corinne's mom were such good friends.

• 28:22Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 28:22Speaker 01

  That that was the bridge for us.

• 28:24Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 28:25Speaker 01

  Because we were little, we were young. I didn't, there was no social media, there was no cell phones. You know, you moved, you got a new phone number, you know, all those things.

• 28:34Speaker 02

  Well, this was unfortunately like a common theme for me in that I would bond with someone and then their family would move. So Beth was my friend and we were, I don't know, like, I feel like we were like six, seven, eight years old. And then I just like, didn't have a great friend for years. And then I became friends with this gal Lauren, who also lived a little further in my neighborhood, but who I met at school.

• 29:01Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 29:01Speaker 02

  And we became besties, like inseparable. I was so excited to have a friend again.

• 29:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:07Speaker 02

  And then she moved away.

• 29:09Speaker 01

  Oh, no.

• 29:10Speaker 02

  But at least this time, we were older, we were in middle school when she moved away. And I just was devastated. My mom recognized it. I did a trip where I flew by myself to see her in Boston and she flew out to see me in Missouri once. But then again, like, kind of after that, we sort of lost touch when we were in high school. And so, you know, I've had, kind of throughout my life, I've had these people who kind of like, come and go. And now that I'm talking about it, I'm like, wow, I wonder how that affected me. But I did have a very best friend in high school and then one in college. And I sort of like, get a best friend for each season of my life.

• 29:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:51Speaker 02

  But, and you're the one that stuck. I mean, I'm still friends with my high school and college best friends. But like, you know, yeah, I, I've also gone through periods of my life where I didn't really have a best friend, like a true, like, tell you everything best friend.

• 30:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:06Speaker 02

  I've had both.

• 30:08Speaker 01

  Well, I think we just met at our perfect time in our life for each other, you know?

• 30:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:14Speaker 01

  And now we're older and we are in charge of like, all of our life, you know?

• 30:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:20Speaker 01

  And we're not being moved by someone else and we can stay in touch. And, and I'm so proud of our friendship and I tell this to people all the time that ask me about our friendship is that, you know, like any other relationship in your life, to be a good friend, you have to put the time in.

• 30:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:37Speaker 01

  And Even if distance happens or life happens, be like, all right, we have a phone date to catch up. And you just like, you work for the friendship.

• 30:48Speaker 02

  Well, both people, Alana and Carly, in both of their friendships, there was a move.

• 30:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:54Speaker 02

  You know?

• 30:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:56Speaker 02

  Sam, Cassie, do you have like, very first best friends that you remember from growing up?

• 31:02Speaker 05

  Yeah, my best friend's name was Amber, and we would play in this canyon behind her house. Uh, and we were just totally like, animal lovers and bonded over just being out in the woods. She meant a lot to me.

• 31:16Speaker 02

  I love that. Are you still in touch with her?

• 31:18Speaker 05

  Kind of like on Instagram, but I moved to a different town when I was like, 11. And when we came back, we were just totally different people at that point.

• 31:30Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 31:30Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 31:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:31Speaker 04

  My childhood best friend, his name was Jared. This is in Watertown, Wisconsin. Used to ride our bikes around until the streetlights came out, then it was time to come home.

• 31:40Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 31:41Speaker 04

  I lost touch of him. He went into the military around September 11th and isn't really online, but I should look him up.

• 31:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:48Speaker 02

  Yeah. I mean, that's the thing, too. I feel like it might be easier to find people now. I have a very dear friend, Kate, that was my middle school buddy, that we stayed in touch for years. I went to Australia to see her. She came to the US to see me. And then one day, like, the card I sent her came back. And I like, haven't been able to find her. So I love this idea of finding people that meant something to us and reconnecting. Well, we had another category of letters that we got from people. A lot of people sent in stories of how The Office brought them together.

• 32:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:23Speaker 02

  Into their friendship. I really loved this one from Becca M. in Edmonds, Washington, who said, "I, like the both of you, have the most amazing best friend. Her name is Lisa, and we have been BFFs for 15 years. We met in college and pretty quickly became inseparable. She has been a supportive and loving person that I can always turn to. She even supported me in my own breast cancer scare with love and laughter. We both have loved The Office since day one. In college, we watched episodes together and totally fangirled over the romance of Jim and Pam, Angela and Dwight, and in my opinion, couples' goals, Phyllis and Bob Vance, Vance Refrigeration." And then she goes on to explain that for her bachelorette party,

• 33:07Speaker 02

  her best friend threw her an office-themed girls' weekend. They got an Airbnb.

• 33:13Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 33:13Speaker 02

  And she decorated with a sign that said, "It is your bachelorette party," with half-blown-up balloons. They had fake tattoos that said "That's what she said," and also the face of Prison Mike. And then she just said, "I couldn't think of a better prompt to email about because I love the friendship between you two. I always feel like I'm hearing a conversation between Lisa and myself when I tune in for the next installment of Office Ladies. And I hope everyone out there has their own Lisa because she's pretty effing amazing. Thanks for giving me an excuse to brag about my bestie."

• 33:46Speaker 01

  Aww. I love that. I love it when people have office-themed parties. It just delights me. They have office-themed baby showers, bachelorette weddings.

• 33:56Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 33:57Speaker 01

  And of course, birthdays.

• 33:59Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 33:59Speaker 01

  Isn't that so fun?

• 34:00Speaker 02

  It's so adorable.

• 34:02Speaker 01

  Jenna and I gave Sam and Cassie each a birthday card that had the Office Ladies Party Planning Committee on the front. And we cut out little pictures of their faces and put them Worked so well. On Phyllis. We found a picture where they were both leaning the same way Phyllis is leaning. Anyway, it just tickles me and I love that the show still brings people together. Our next section is about best friendships in movies. I looked up the top 15 best friendship movies. And Jenna, in the top 15, by the way, this made top 15, top 10 of several lists like this online.

• 34:39Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 34:39Speaker 01

  Is a movie that you and I went and saw in the theater together on a BFF date.

• 34:45Speaker 02

  We did?

• 34:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:48Speaker 02

  Oh, oh, wait. I think I know. It's the, um, it's the one with the pants.

• 34:54Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 34:54Speaker 02

  Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants.

• 34:56Speaker 01

  Yes, directed by our very own Ken Klapis. We went to the theater to support the movie.

• 35:01Speaker 02

  I remember.

• 35:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:02Speaker 02

  Oh, it was so good. And it's such a good BFF movie.

• 35:05Speaker 01

  I know. And can you believe that movie date of ours was 20 years ago?

• 35:10Speaker 02

  What?

• 35:11Speaker 01

  Yes. Lady, I looked it up. Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants is having its 20th year anniversary this year.

• 35:18Speaker 02

  Oh, my god.

• 35:20Speaker 01

  I know, it's crazy. It's also out on digital. Maybe we should watch it together again.

• 35:25Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 35:25Speaker 01

  20 years of friendship.

• 35:27Speaker 02

  20 years of friendship. Those pants just traveling away.

• 35:31Speaker 01

  Traveling the world.

• 35:32Speaker 02

  Lady, I have my blow up movie screen. We could do like an outdoor summer movie night and watch Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants.

• 35:38Speaker 01

  Oh, that would be so fun. We would have to take a picture together and send it to Ken.

• 35:42Speaker 02

  We would.

• 35:44Speaker 01

  Okay, so that one made almost all of the list, but we were also curious to hear from everyone about what their best friendship movies are.

• 35:52Speaker 02

  I have two favorite best friendship movies.

• 35:54Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 35:55Speaker 02

  My second favorite that used to be my first favorite is Thelma and Louise. I love the friendship between these two women in this movie.

• 36:04Speaker 01

  That was number one on this top best friendship movie list.

• 36:07Speaker 02

  Well, I believe it because I remember seeing it when it came out. And it was kind of the first time I had seen female friendship portrayed that way in a movie. And it was like very, it hit me. Like it definitely like she has this speech at the end of the movie, Gina Davis's character where she just says to Susan Sarandon, she's like, hey, I just want you to know, like, I can't go back to my old life. Like something has shifted in me. And Susan Sarandon is like, oh, honey, I know. And it's just like, it gives me chills. It's just like this journey they go on. And they are changed forever. And I felt like when I saw the movie, it kind of changed something in me about women, supporting women. It was just so beautiful.

• 36:53Speaker 02

  And then my favorite best friendship movie, though, is Muriel's Wedding.

• 36:57Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 36:58Speaker 02

  I love it so much. And it's similar. It's similar. It's just like a movie about best friends and they're so great and they have each other's back and I just love it so much.

• 37:09Speaker 01

  Sam, Cassie, do you have a favorite best friendship movie?

• 37:12Speaker 05

  I've talked about this movie before, but Bottoms is just so good about like queer women and being gross and you know, just stumbling through high school together, but coming together, I think is just really beautiful.

• 37:24Speaker 02

  Their comedic comedy together in that movie is so infectious. Like I could watch four hours of them.

• 37:32Speaker 05

  Same.

• 37:33Speaker 01

  I have to put that. On my list, I haven't seen it. It's so good. Okay.

• 37:37Speaker 04

  I would say either In Bruges.

• 37:39Speaker 01

  Oh, I love that.

• 37:40Speaker 04

  Colin Farrell and Brendan Gleeson.

• 37:42Speaker 01

  That's a great one.

• 37:43Speaker 04

  Or there's this movie, it's about four really good friends. One of them has to return a ring. And his three friends help him. It takes like nine hours, but it's really, really good.

• 37:55Speaker 01

  It's really, really good. And they, they have multiple goodbyes.

• 37:58Speaker 04

  Oh, they do. If you love friends.

• 38:02Speaker 01

  Well, I'll have to check that out.

• 38:06Speaker 01

  Well, one of my favorite friendship movies, and I didn't think about that one, Sam, but that's right up there. But mine is actually Jane Austen's Pride and Prejudice.

• 38:15Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 38:16Speaker 01

  It just had its 20 year anniversary and it was re-released in the theaters and I went with my friend. And it was so great. I have a friend that every year we meet and watch Pride and Prejudice. Her name is Tess. I just, I love this tradition that we have. But in the movie, there is a friendship by love. It's between the characters Charlotte Lucas and Elizabeth Bennet. And you know, they're these young girls and they've grown up together. Now they're having to figure out the next chapter of their life, marriage, all of that. And they can laugh and be silly, but then they can also get very real with one another. And I think that is true friendship, when you just have to be real and be honest. And you work through it and you get to the other side.

• 38:57Speaker 01

  And Charlotte has a speech that I love. She has just accepted the hand in marriage from Mr. Collins. Who, you know, everyone thinks Mr. Collins is a bit of an idiot. And she goes to tell Elizabeth this. I saw Joe Wright interviewed about this speech and how it came about. And it's so interesting. I loved it so much. I want you to hear it.

• 39:19Speaker 05

  Oh, okay. Off with Charlotte Lucas. She's considered like the ultimate millennial in an attitude because of her line. I'm 27 years old. I've no money and no prospects. I'm all

• 39:34Speaker 03

  Already a burden to my parents. And I'm frightened.

• 39:39Speaker 07

  I've been told that and it reminds me of the, you know, of that, of that scene being written. Deborah Margick wrote the screenplay and did an amazing, amazing job. Um, and then, um, we asked Emma Thompson to help with a little bit of the dialogue. And I went around to her house, very nervous with my little briefcase. And we walked up onto Hampstead Heath and she said, sit down, take out your notebook and take notes. So, uh, as she improvised scenes, I wrote them down. And then that was one of the scenes that she improvised on that hill on Hampstead Heath.

• 40:18Speaker 07

  Um, and I remember her just coming out with those lines and, and me scribbling them down. And then her ending with, don't judge me, Lizzie, don't you dare judge me.

• 40:34Speaker 02

  Don't judge me, Lizzie. Don't you dare judge me. Wow.

• 40:39Speaker 01

  Isn't that brilliant? Emma Thompson improvised that speech. Anyway, I'm such a fan of hers, but I just loved that creative collaboration that Joe Wright brought into this movie. But I loved that moment in Charlotte and Lizzie's friendship. And then they got through it, you know, and, and they were there for each other. As their lives were changing and so much of it was beyond their control and they were still there for each other. Anyway, I just, I love that movie. I love that friendship.

• 41:09Speaker 02

  I've never seen that movie.

• 41:10Speaker 01

  What? What? It's my favorite movie. I re-watch it all the time. Like if I can't sleep, I put on Pride and Prejudice.

• 41:19Speaker 02

  It's your edge. It's your, the edge.

• 41:21Speaker 01

  It is. I can't believe you've never seen it.

• 41:24Speaker 02

  I've never seen it. I should see it, I guess.

• 41:26Speaker 01

  Yes. Yes, you should. In fact, I need it for our friendship. Here's my call to action.

• 41:33Speaker 02

  All right.

• 41:34Speaker 01

  To know me is to know how much I love this movie.

• 41:37Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 41:38Speaker 01

  I need you to see it.

• 41:39Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 41:40Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 41:41Speaker 02

  Done.

• 41:41Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 41:42Speaker 02

  I will watch it this year.

• 41:43Speaker 01

  Oh, that would make me so happy.

• 41:45Speaker 02

  I can't wait.

• 41:46Speaker 01

  Okay. Don't watch it when you're distracted. Put some alone time there.

• 41:50Speaker 02

  Okay, so not while like on a lunch break like I did with Lord of the Rings and you guys all gave me trouble for it.

• 41:56Speaker 01

  I will be wounded.

• 41:58Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 41:58Speaker 01

  I will not.

• 41:59Speaker 02

  That's like when we were gonna watch The Edge, you're like, Ange, you can't make fun of it. It means too much to me.

• 42:04Speaker 01

  I did.

• 42:04Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 42:04Speaker 01

  I said that.

• 42:05Speaker 02

  All right.

• 42:06Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 42:07Speaker 02

  Deal. Well, listen, why don't we take a break? And then when we come back, I did do a deep dive on friendship. There's people have studied it.

• 42:16Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 42:17Speaker 02

  And I found some stuff that was interesting to me.

• 42:19Speaker 01

  Fantastic.

• 42:20Speaker 02

  I'll share it.

• 42:21Speaker 01

  All right.

• 42:28Speaker 00

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• 43:56Speaker 01

  Well, we're back and I'm very excited for your friendship deep dive.

• 44:01Speaker 02

  Well, lady, I love anecdotes. I love studies. I love research projects.

• 44:09Speaker 01

  This is true.

• 44:10Speaker 02

  And I was Googling and I found that in 2011, Snapchat did a research project called the Friendship Report. And their goal was to examine the state and nature of friendships around the world.

• 44:26Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 44:28Speaker 02

  So I read the report. It was very lengthy.

• 44:31Speaker 01

  I was gonna say, how long is it?

• 44:33Speaker 02

  It's very long.

• 44:35Speaker 01

  And you read the whole thing?

• 44:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 44:37Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 44:37Speaker 02

  I mean, I love this for my free time. I love to read a lengthy research report. It just gives me joy. And this is probably why I'm Jan. I'll just mention a few of the things that really struck me. In reading the report, it showed how people were really good at making friends when they were younger. However, in our 30s and 40s, friendships became both harder to make and harder to maintain. And then they listed the most common stressors to a friendship. These are the most common reasons why a friendship ended.

• 45:16Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 45:17Speaker 02

  And most commonly in your 30s and 40s. Number one was a new love. Like, one of the friends got a new love.

• 45:25Speaker 01

  Right.

• 45:27Speaker 02

  Number two was parenthood. Someone became a parent. Number three was employment.

• 45:35Speaker 02

  So something having to do with getting busy at work or changing jobs or something. Number four was loss of a loved one. And number five was relocation. In fact, I actually read these in no particular order because relocation was the top reason people lost touch with a friend.

• 45:56Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 45:56Speaker 02

  Physical distance. I was looking at that list and I have lost a friend for all five of those reasons. You know, I shared that my first two best friends I lost over relocation.

• 46:09Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 46:10Speaker 02

  But yeah, all those things.

• 46:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:13Speaker 02

  But then I also made friends in those categories. So like when I fell in love with Lee, he brought new friendships into my life.

• 46:23Speaker 01

  Right.

• 46:24Speaker 02

  And when I became a parent, I became friends with new people from that category.

• 46:29Speaker 01

  Right.

• 46:29Speaker 02

  You know, so yeah, kind of interesting.

• 46:32Speaker 01

  I think it's right on. I mean, I can check a few of those boxes as well.

• 46:37Speaker 02

  Well, they also in this report had suggestions for how to make friends.

• 46:43Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 46:43Speaker 02

  And this one really stood out to me. Their first piece of advice for making new friends is to assume people like you. Just assume.

• 46:53Speaker 01

  Can that be a little dangerous? Like, isn't that a slippery slope? Cause like, you're like, yeah, they like me and they're like, no, no.

• 47:01Speaker 02

  Well, here's what they said. Researchers found that when people were told that they would be accepted into a group, even when it wasn't true, like they would take a group of people who were already associated with themselves and introduce a new person. And they would tell this person, hey, this group is excited to meet you. They've already accepted you as their friend. And then they did it where they didn't tell that person that.

• 47:28Speaker 01

  And so you entered the group with different confidence.

• 47:30Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 47:31Speaker 01

  Is that right? And confidence, people are attracted to confidence.

• 47:34Speaker 02

  Well, what they said was the people who were told that they would be accepted, those people let their guard down more, they shared more, they disagreed less and were just overall more positive. Hmm. Researchers also discovered something called the liking gap.

• 47:51Speaker 01

  What is the liking gap?

• 47:53Speaker 02

  Okay. When strangers interact.

• 47:55Speaker 01

  You're smiling.

• 47:56Speaker 02

  I love anecdotes.

• 47:58Speaker 01

  You guys wait to tell me what the liking gap is. Live for this shit.

• 48:03Speaker 02

  You also look really cute today.

• 48:04Speaker 01

  Hey, thanks.

• 48:05Speaker 02

  I mean, Sam and I were talking about it. We love your hair. It's got a little swoop. It's it's longer.

• 48:10Speaker 04

  It looks really nice today.

• 48:10Speaker 02

  Right?

• 48:11Speaker 01

  It's starting to finally turn.

• 48:13Speaker 02

  And then for a while it was just growing up and out and now it is starting to bend.

• 48:18Speaker 01

  It's starting to lay down a little.

• 48:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 48:20Speaker 01

  And then I love your top and your pants.

• 48:22Speaker 02

  Thank you so much.

• 48:23Speaker 01

  I, anyway, whatever, head to toe cute outfit. Back to the liking gap.

• 48:27Speaker 02

  Oh, my goodness. Well, here's the liking gap. When strangers interacted with each other, they were asked later to estimate how liked they thought they were by the other person. And people routinely underestimate their likability. Like their interpretation of if the other person liked them was not in sync with the reality that the person did like them.

• 48:51Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 48:52Speaker 02

  So they were using that as an example to say, like, you can assume that people will like you. Like, you are good enough, you are likable. Carry that in to the room with you, everybody.

• 49:06Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 49:07Speaker 02

  I don't know. I thought that could be helpful.

• 49:09Speaker 01

  No, I think it is helpful.

• 49:11Speaker 02

  All right, here was their other suggestion for making friends.

• 49:14Speaker 01

  I am on board with this.

• 49:15Speaker 02

  Okay, good. Okay, good. Here's their other suggestion for making friends, which is, don't wait for friendships to happen organically. Studies show that friendships take effort and initiative. And one of the suggestions was, you know, in the same way that when you're looking for love, you'll kind of do one of the like online matching things that like, actually finding a friend online is a good place to like, take initiative. And, you know, find someone who you might want to be friends with. Yes, and we actually got a letter from Sandy Y. in sunny Finland, who met her friend that way, who said, so basically, I met my best friend online. I think it was somewhere in the early 2010s.

• 49:59Speaker 02

  I'm Finnish and she's Hungarian. English isn't even our first language, and yet we still somehow became really close really fast. Our long distance friendship is very cool, and we have even met twice, once in Hungary and once in Finland. Even if we won't see each other in years, we still connect. We FaceTime, text and call, send each other silly reels and laugh together through the phone. I know it's not an ideal friendship, but it's special for both of us. We always have a friend in our pocket.

• 50:29Speaker 01

  Well, I love that. That is something we did not have growing up. We did not have this online option. But you know, as you were saying all of that, Jenna, it made me think of a family story that my sister tells. I hadn't thought about it in a long time, but as you were reading that, I was visiting my sister in the summer. You know, my sister's much older than me and she was married and, and my parents had some work travel. And so I went and stayed with her for two or three weeks one summer. And I was, I don't know, maybe like 13 years old. Anyway, I got bored really quickly with just my sister and her husband. And, you know, I would just sit around. I was real bored. And so my sister

• 51:11Speaker 01

  was like, well, there'd been this girl, every day, we'd see her ride her bike down the street. And my sister was like, well, why don't you make friend with her, you know? And I finally was like, just bored enough that I had the courage. And I walked outside one day and, and my sister said, as she rode her bike by, I stuck my foot out in front of her bike. And I said, hey, you want to be friends?

• 51:34Speaker 02

  Did it work?

• 51:36Speaker 01

  She was like, okay. And then I borrowed a bike and we'd go ride bikes together for like a few weeks. We hung out. But it is kind of funny to me. I hadn't thought about that in a long time.

• 51:46Speaker 02

  Well, you did it. You took some initiative. You did not wait for that. That is definitely not a friendship that started organically.

• 51:53Speaker 01

  No.

• 51:54Speaker 02

  That was initiative based.

• 51:55Speaker 01

  I blocked her bike with my body.

• 51:57Speaker 02

  Here was their third suggestion for how to make friend. Pursue a group hobby.

• 52:03Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 52:05Speaker 02

  This is 100% how I made friends when I first came to Los Angeles.

• 52:09Speaker 01

  100%.

• 52:10Speaker 02

  Here are some suggestions. Take a yoga class. Libraries have book clubs. Pickleball. Join a pickup hockey game. Lee has made so many friends. He plays pickup hockey. He used to play soccer. He was on like a softball team.

• 52:26Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 52:27Speaker 02

  Like sports is a great.

• 52:28Speaker 01

  Sports is great.

• 52:29Speaker 02

  Right?

• 52:30Speaker 01

  Is improv, like improv class on there?

• 52:32Speaker 02

  It wasn't, but it could be.

• 52:34Speaker 01

  Yeah. Take an improv class. You'll meet lots of people from all over.

• 52:38Speaker 02

  You will.

• 52:39Speaker 01

  What?

• 52:40Speaker 02

  Are you looking at me like that?

• 52:42Speaker 01

  Some people, some people in improv classes are weird.

• 52:47Speaker 01

  That's how I made all of my friends.

• 52:49Speaker 02

  I know, but so you you will meet a Michael Scott in your improv class.

• 52:53Speaker 01

  You will, and I have collected a random assortment of people in my life.

• 52:57Speaker 02

  It's true. Okay, sorry, improv classes. They are a good place to meet people.

• 53:03Speaker 01

  They are.

• 53:04Speaker 02

  Sam, I wanted to throw it over to you because I know that you have been on a journey this past year. It is a sobriety journey and you've shared about this in other places on your Instagram and a little bit here on Office Ladies. But part of that journey has involved you having to make new friendships and connections.

• 53:25Speaker 04

  It has, yes.

• 53:27Speaker 02

  Can you share a little bit about what that has meant for you?

• 53:29Speaker 04

  I would love to. Yeah, making new friends this year has been weird and difficult. Making friends over 40 is difficult in general, and I just way overestimated how simple it would be. But it has been it has been new this year, taking classes, taking so many classes. I took a fencing class this Sunday and cello lessons and sign language classes and kickball classes and bowling classes. So, yeah, this year has just been an interesting experiment in meeting new people, meeting new sober people.

• 53:59Speaker 02

  Have any of those things that you've joined in your like effort to connect with new sober people, has it worked?

• 54:08Speaker 04

  Yeah, it has. Yeah, I've made a bunch of new friends that I wouldn't have met any other places outside of 12-step programs. It's been really, really nice.

• 54:15Speaker 01

  That's so great.

• 54:16Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 54:17Speaker 01

  You know, my sister years ago, she'd gone through a divorce and moved and was really kind of starting over, and she had a student that year that she took it upon herself to learn sign language to help communicate with her students' parents. And she just started taking more and more classes, and she found a community that she absolutely adored and she's dear friends with now. And even this week, she's here to visit me from Texas, and she's going to meet up with two of her friends she met.

• 54:45Speaker 04

  Oh, I love that.

• 54:46Speaker 01

  In this online sign language class.

• 54:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 54:49Speaker 04

  That's awesome.

• 54:49Speaker 01

  So I just love that, Sam. I think that is showing great initiative about how do I meet people and have a shared interest on this new journey that I'm on.

• 54:59Speaker 04

  Thank you. It's been really, really weird and very lonely, but in a good way.

• 55:04Speaker 02

  I mean, how many times have you had to step into a room of strangers this last year? I mean, that is not easy to do.

• 55:12Speaker 04

  About once a week for this last year.

• 55:14Speaker 02

  Oh, Sam. That is courage. And are you assuming people like you?

• 55:19Speaker 04

  Oh, okay. Here's the thing. No. And I made a mental note when you came across that thing earlier. I'm just not wired that way naturally. I'm naturally hardwired to not like myself. It's like a thing I'm dealing with in therapy and this, all this stuff. So that, I like threw my hands up when you got to that point, like as if it's just a decision to like yourself. That is crazy to me.

• 55:40Speaker 02

  Well, Sam, I can relate. I mean, this is the root of all of my social anxiety is my incredibly loud self critic.

• 55:47Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 55:47Speaker 02

  And so that's why that stood out to me, this idea that I could just assume people will like me. I'm like, what does that feel like?

• 55:56Speaker 04

  I will say all 52 times that I've walked into a room of new people this year, I've absolutely had that emotional hangover, they call it, on the way home. Where you're going through stuff you said and you're like, oh, why did I say this? No one likes you. Everything was fine, by the way, but it's just replaying the night.

• 56:12Speaker 02

  Well, Sam, you know that I know exactly what you're talking about. I spiral often, so I definitely, definitely have had that experience. And you know what? Just thank you so much for sharing all that. Because friendship is something that does elude people at various times in their life. It is not effortless and it's not easy. So thank you for sharing.

• 56:35Speaker 04

  Thank you for having me.

• 56:35Speaker 02

  Yeah. Well, Angela, this whole episode got me reflecting on the circumstances that led to our friendship. If I had to like name the main thing that led to our friendship, I'm talking like origin.

• 56:50Speaker 01

  Moment?

• 56:51Speaker 02

  Yes. I would have to say it was as simple as location proximity.

• 56:56Speaker 01

  I was gonna say proximity.

• 56:58Speaker 02

  We worked at the same place, but not just that. Our desks were right next to each other.

• 57:03Speaker 01

  Our desks backed each other up.

• 57:05Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 57:05Speaker 01

  You were the closest lady.

• 57:08Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 57:08Speaker 01

  Gal next to me.

• 57:10Speaker 02

  Yep. And we got a fan letter that reminded me of the two of us. It is from Kristen R. in Buffalo, New York, who said, "My best friend Cory and I met in the office. We had just finished college and she just had a baby, but we were two peas in a pod from day one. We were assigned desks that connected."

• 57:28Speaker 01

  Hey.

• 57:29Speaker 02

  And boy, did that come in handy. We used a headphone jack splitter to listen to music and podcasts together. One year for Halloween, we dressed as the SNL ladies from The Delicious Dish. She left the office after a few years to raise her kids, but I still work for the company. Almost 14 years later, I've had six promotions, she's had three more kids. They call me Auntie, we're practically family, and I'm forever grateful for our office.

• 57:57Speaker 01

  I love that. You know, I'm so thankful for the proximity of our desks. But also, it was the first time we talked, there was just a familiarity about you. I just felt an instant comfort around you.

• 58:11Speaker 02

  You felt like home to me.

• 58:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 58:13Speaker 02

  You felt like, here I was in the middle of Hollywood on a TV set.

• 58:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 58:19Speaker 02

  But you felt like a friend I would make back home.

• 58:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, and it was just really simple, day-to-day life things that we talked about, you know? And those are the things and the moments that get you through life. You know, big things come and go and swirl around you. But it's the day-to-day, I feel like, that builds lasting friendships. And I went to my office early days journal. And I have a little entry, and it's nothing flashy. It's just a simple entry, but I think it says everything about who we were then and why I love it so much. Are you ready?

• 59:00Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 59:01Speaker 01

  Okay, putting on my glasses. Back from lunch. Jenna and I ate in her trailer. It's my favorite. She brought arm weights to keep in her trailer. And after we ate, she did some arm exercises while I talked. I showed her the push-up thing I do on the counter. You know what I'm talking about?

• 59:20Speaker 02

  I do, of course.

• 59:21Speaker 01

  This is like lame push-up I do just leaning on a counter. Then I go on to say, maybe I'll get some weights too. Sitting at my desk now, it's so cold on set. I scooched my seat as far under my desk as it can go, so the camera won't see my Uggs. Jenna likes my hair today. It's a half-up, half-down look. I wanted to come see the two hydrangeas I planted in my backyard. They are finally starting to bloom. I had them in pots and waited to plant them until I figured out which part of the yard got the most shade.

• 59:52Speaker 01

  It's riveting stuff here, guys.

• 59:55Speaker 01

  I go on to say, Jenna and I don't work tomorrow, so we are going to the Beverly Center to shop and have lunch in the food court.

• 1:00:02Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 1:00:03Speaker 01

  That's a shopping mall here.

• 1:00:04Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:00:05Speaker 01

  I go on and say, I'm so excited. We never get days off together during the week. Parking is annoying, so I said we should carpool.

• 1:00:12Speaker 02

  Yay. Alrighty.

• 1:00:14Speaker 01

  A better run.

• 1:00:17Speaker 02

  I love this journal entry. Isn't it just so simple? But that is it, lady. Like you saying, will you come see my hydrangea that I planted? Which by the way, I remember doing.

• 1:00:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:00:31Speaker 02

  Is why we're friends, because I, I couldn't wait to see them. I was like, yes.

• 1:00:36Speaker 01

  I mean.

• 1:00:36Speaker 02

  I'd love to come see those.

• 1:00:38Speaker 01

  And I just remember just us being in your trailer and our lunches there. It's no surprise to me that I wrote, it's my favorite thing, because it's really, you know, being on set was so fun and acting on the office was so fun. But where I felt most like me was on our lunches in your trailer where we just got to chit chat.

• 1:00:59Speaker 02

  Well, I remember a big swing that I took in our friendship and I was so nervous. Like I was like sweaty palms. My like heart was like beating out of my chest.

• 1:01:10Speaker 01

  I literally don't know what you're about to say.

• 1:01:12Speaker 02

  Okay, I had been at the mall and I had gone by Claire's and I saw that cheesy like best friend necklace where like one side says B-Fry and the other side says Saint Ends, but if you put them together, it says best friends. And I just had this instinct. I was like, oh my gosh, I'm gonna get that for me and Angela. And then I realized we had never called each other best friends, but I knew you were my best friend. I did not have another best friend. I didn't even have another close friend at the time. And I remember standing in that Claire's and being like, do I buy it?

• 1:01:53Speaker 02

  What if, what if I give it to her and she's like, oh, thanks. Like, or am I, is it too much too soon? But I bought it and I gave it to you. And you were like, I love it. I love it. BFF. And it was like, it was a little bit like saying, I love you for the first time in a relationship. And I was like, yes, we're besties.

• 1:02:18Speaker 01

  We're besties. You know, I loved it. I had just made us matching sweatshirts with our character names on them.

• 1:02:25Speaker 02

  Yes. Well, everyone, thank you so much for joining us in this celebration of friendship and best friends day.

• 1:02:34Speaker 01

  This was so wonderful. I love that our show brings people together. I love that our job brought us together and I love hearing people's friendship stories.

• 1:02:43Speaker 04

  Actually, sorry, before we go, I brought in something from my journal today.

• 1:02:47Speaker 01

  What?

• 1:02:48Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:02:48Speaker 01

  Wait, what?

• 1:02:49Speaker 04

  Sorry, do we have time?

• 1:02:51Speaker 01

  We do. This is a curve ball.

• 1:02:52Speaker 04

  I'll try and keep this short. There's just something I wanted to express to the three of you on air. In case something happens to me, I'd like these thoughts permanently recorded forever and clear posterity.

• 1:03:01Speaker 02

  Sam, your brain is hilarious.

• 1:03:03Speaker 04

  It's gonna start rough, but it'll perk up by the end, I promise.

• 1:03:06Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:03:07Speaker 04

  This last year was a doozy for me. I got sober shortly after being let go from SiriusXM. Although it never affected my work in studio, the last decade of my life has been fairly controlled by drugs and alcohol behind the scenes. When I was let go from SiriusXM, I realized that the unlimited time and severance package would most assuredly result in an overdose if I didn't get help. And I did. I joined a 12-step program, got a sponsor, and dove in with full conviction. But as I'm learning is the case with most addicts, the real struggle is dealing with what lies underneath. The character defects and trauma that I needed in none with drugs and alcohol. This is the part where it gets good, I promise. Over the last five years, I've been doing this podcast, the three of you have systematically dismantled large parts of my brain that have been causing me pain. And like I said earlier,

• 1:03:48Speaker 04

  I just want to record it in clear posterity, the following. Angela, you have this kindness, this deep well of empathy, seemingly with no bottom. Your ability to love and care about people you've never met, as well as those you have, is truly inspiring. The way you listen to Jenna, truly listen and feel her pain when she's in pain, or remember things people have said for gifts later, or the way you check in on people who are going through a rough time, truly humbles me. Every time I interact with you, it fills my battery up to full.

• 1:04:18Speaker 02

  Oh, Sam.

• 1:04:18Speaker 04

  Which I realize must be draining to you. So I want to say thank you for that. You have too much love and empathy to be trapped in a candy jar. Jenna, there's an old joke slash meme that goes, why do weak men date strong women? And the answer is because someone has to tell our server, I ordered a Diet Coke and not a regular one, and it's not going to be me. I've learned so much about self-respect from you, from the way you don't allow yourself to be spoken down to, from the way you are clear about what you want out of life. And much like Angela, the way you don't allow your friends to be spoken to disrespectfully either. And also, much like Angela, I have modeled so much in my life this last year after you. I recognize that you don't get to be that strong without the world trying to give you some shit. So I want to say thank you for persevering in your own life. Your ability to overcome obstacles without letting it affect your worldview is extremely

• 1:05:03Speaker 04

  inspiring. Cassie, you've saved my life. When you started here, I was drowning in work. Your dedication to this podcast was immediately noticed. And much like Jenna and Angela, you've changed my life just by being you. There's a quiet confidence to you. You seem to have such a clear vision of who you are. You genuinely seem to like yourself. And as is a theme with this speech, I've modeled much of my daily sober life around you. Your work-life balance, music playing and basketball has inspired me to take up the cello again and sign up for several classes to make my own sober life as enjoyable day to day as possible. I could go on and on about the ways that you three have changed my life, but I'll wrap it up here and just say this. Everything that I am better for from having known you three comes from you guys overcoming

• 1:05:45Speaker 04

  your own battles in life. You all have done so much inner work that it spills over and affects those around you. I just want to say that I see you and the work you've done. For the first time in a long time, I'm optimistic about my birthday and my life and my future because the three of you have taught me gratitude. That was the missing piece of my life. I live slower now, seeing and appreciating all that I have, and I have so much thanks to you three. There's a phrase that I hate from years of working in food service, and that phrase is, we are a family. Normally, when you hear that, somebody's about to ask you to work on a Saturday when you took the day off. But Jenna and Angela, I really hope that you guys are proud of yourselves. You've achieved something so rare in the performance space. You have truly created a

• 1:06:27Speaker 04

  family. I know your fans feel the same way, as they are part of that family, too. Thank you for letting me be a part of this show and your family. And I love you.

• 1:06:35Speaker 01

  Sam, Sam, Sam, we love you so much. We love you so much, Sam. Office Ladies is not Office Ladies without you, Sam.

• 1:06:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, Sam, I mean.

• 1:06:51Speaker 02

  This is why, this is why we needed you back, Sam. I'm unprepared with how to explain what you bring to us as well, but this, you're not left out of the magic that happens here. But also, Sam, I have watched the grit and strength and resolve that you have gone into this sober living with. And it is also truly inspirational. I have watched you do silks.

• 1:07:26Speaker 04

  That's right.

• 1:07:27Speaker 02

  Cirque du Soleil silks. And I know that when you're doing that, I know the courage and vulnerability that it took for you to show up somewhere where you didn't know people to do an activity that was aiding your sobriety. And I, I just, I am so glad that you are giving yourself the care that you deserve because you deserve it. And we're just so happy that you're with us.

• 1:07:59Speaker 04

  Well, here's to another year, guys.

• 1:08:00Speaker 02

  Here's to another year. Here's to another year, Sam. Love you. We love you so much.

• 1:08:13Speaker 02

  Thank you for listening to Office Ladies.

• 1:08:15Speaker 01

  Office Ladies is a presentation of Odyssey and is produced by Jenna Fischer and Angela Kinsey.

• 1:08:20Speaker 02

  Our executive producer is Cassie Jerkins. Our audio engineer is Sam Kiefer. And our associate producer is Ainsley Bubaco.

• 1:08:28Speaker 01

  Odyssey's executive producer is Leah Reese Dennis.

• 1:08:31Speaker 02

  Office Ladies was mixed and mastered by Bill Schultz.

• 1:08:34Speaker 01

  Our theme song is Rubber Tree by Creed Bratton.