Liberating Yourself with Busy Philipps: The Moth Podcast

On this very special episode of the Moth Podcast we feature stories of women and their liberation. This episode is hosted by actress, author and mega-fan of the Tony-nominated play Liberation, Busy Philipps, and features a conversation with its Pulitzer-Prize-winning playwright Bess Wohl and Obie-winning director Whitney White. The three stories will take us from the middle of the ocean, to a nude spa in Santa Fe, to a rest stop in Texas… but all of them are about breaking free. About discovering yourself. Storytellers: Rescue swimmer Amanda Burrill is left by her ship during a drill, staying deep in the ocean unsure of when her crew would return. Jennifer Kohnhorst vacations at a fancy clothes-optional spa. On a road trip home, Victoria Nguyen is thrust into a dangerous situation. Podcast # 980

• 0:04Speaker 00

  Welcome to The Moth. I'm Chloe Salmon. There are so many stories about romantic love, which is fair, I guess. But I take your romantic love and raise you a different relationship. One that can be just as fulfilling and, honestly, sometimes even more so. Friendship. I'm grateful for my friends every day because each and every one of them is a perfect, beautiful angel who supports me fiercely but is also willing to give me an honest opinion about the new haircut I want to try out. Without them, I would be a lonely girl with a bowl cut I thought would look French, probably. In this episode, three stories all about friendship. From how they can be there for you during challenging times, to a friend's unconditional

• 0:48Speaker 00

  love, to the gummy bears. Don't worry, we'll get there. First up is Lauren Karch, who told this story at a main stage in Dayton, Ohio, where the theme was "More Than Meets the Eye." Here's Lauren, live at The Moth.

• 1:05Speaker 01

  So a couple of years ago, I started to notice that people were sounding quieter to me, which did not track with world events, but only when I was on the phone, and only when I had the phone to the right side of my head. And it wasn't like just that. I also noticed like I would get dizzy sometimes, and sometimes I kind of felt like my head was underwater. So I held off, but eventually I made an appointment with like an ear, nose, and throat specialist and got my hearing tested. And I found out exactly what I did not want to know, which was that at like 32, I was losing my hearing, but only on one side. And he's sort of, my doctor started going through a list of like other tests I could try and possible diagnoses, and I interrupted him and said, "Did I tell you my dad has Meniere's disease?"

• 1:48Speaker 01

  And he looked at me, you know, like how you do when you're looking at the answer to a trivia question? My dad lost his hearing completely within like 10 years of being diagnosed. So I knew that if I had the same deal, like the same thing could happen to me. You know, I'd probably lose the rest of my hearing on my right side and maybe both ears, like within a few years, or sooner, or later, or not at all.

• 2:12Speaker 01

  And usually, I'm not like the kind of person who's like, "Oh, I gotta know what's gonna happen." Because I'm not picking the restaurant, okay? I'm not like a type A person. I do not have what the teens call "main character energy." But, in this moment, like, I wish that I did, because there's not really a treatment for Meniere's. So like, you can take symptom stuff, so I could do like, short-term steroids to ward off the vertigo. And my doctor told me to avoid caffeine and salt, which are like, my two favorite food groups. So, that weekend, I visited my parents. And it's never like, nice to start a conversation with, "What if I end up like you?" But that's basically what I did to my dad. And he told me, you know, a few things.

• 2:55Speaker 01

  He was like, "There's all this assistive technology and like, supportive community for people with hearing loss." Um, and frankly, it's not a huge tragedy not hear everybody all the time in this economy. My dad's a very like, zen, very like, believes in a higher path kind of person. So, that kind of brought me out of my like, basement of depression. But a few months later, I was back at the same doctor's office, because I kept getting these episodes of like, room-spinning vertigo, and my hearing was worse. So they retested me, and I was up to 80 decibels of loss in my right ear, which they have the little like, dumb layman's term chart in the soundproof booth. So that means that on my right side, I can hear things that are louder than quote, "A lawnmower at close range." Which is awesome.

• 3:40Speaker 01

  And, so I went home, and I got on Reddit, like you do when you're looking up rare diseases, and I found this interview with an artist who also had Meniere's disease. And the interviewer had asked him, I thought it was such a good question, "What sound do you miss the most?" And he was like, a poet or something. So he said, "I most miss the soft sound of a cat lapping water, because it sounds so satisfying for the cat." So, I found myself then, sitting on my living room floor, sort of like, sloshing a water bowl towards my increasingly disgruntled cat.

• 4:17Speaker 01

  And Pterodactyl, that's my cat's name. She was, she was not satisfied. She just looked at me like, "I don't get paid enough for this." But, but the question had given me kind of an idea of something I could do to feel a little bit more in control. I thought, "I should make a list of everything I want to hear before I go deaf, in case I go deaf." Like a playlist bucket list, right? Like, and yeah, I probably can't afford to go to the Amazon Rainforest right now, but I could leave the window open when it rains. And like, I didn't want the last thing I heard to be like a spam call or like my self-repeating gossip, you know? And so, when I saw a few days later that my favorite band was going to be in Cincinnati, I bought tickets right away.

• 4:59Speaker 01

  I did not think about who I was going to take with me. But then I happened to go to Warehouse 4, my favorite coffee shop, later. And yeah. And my friend Stacy was working. And Stacy is like, the kind of person who is up for anything. Plus, it was really swamped in there, so it was the perfect time to entrap her with an invitation. And she agreed to go. And like, "Yeah, were we a little old to be at Bogart's, under like, the 'No moshing' sign? Yeah! So are the Mountain Goats, my favorite band from 2005." Yeah! And Stacy, uh, used to be a youth choir director, so in exchange for me taking her to see

• 5:37Speaker 01

  a sad dad band, um, she went, she asked me if I would want to go with her to see a children's production of Cats. Which, yeah, like, I don't have time to wait for professionals to put on Cats for me. Um, and I realized, like, I could, I could knock off a ton of kinds of music if I started going to like, the free concerts put on by like, the library and YSO. So, like, jazz in the park, jazz at the culture center, jazz at the library, there's a lot of jazz. I got really into it. I accompanied my boyfriend, who was on his own journey of trying to see every Boston sports team play in the Midwest. And I don't really like sports, but I did want to hear his accent being used for its

• 6:21Speaker 01

  intended purpose, which is cursing the Red Sox.

• 6:25Speaker 01

  And I started listening to my mom's favorite true crime podcast because I wanted to see if I, like her, could learn to discern who was guilty based on the guilt in the murderer's voice. And kind of, yeah. But the biggest victim in all this was my best friend Katie. I had told her about my hearing problems, but I didn't tell her about the playlist because it's insane. But the problem is, she's the perfect person, perfect man for the job. Because she is a theater person. We actually know each other from the theater because we became close in our rural high schools production of the Soul musical, The Wiz. And, which is, because it was from the before times.

• 7:10Speaker 01

  And so, we'd always dreamed of aging into being those costume jewelry ladies who have season tickets to the ballet. So I texted her, and I said, "Remember how we were going to become theater ladies? What if we just do that now?" And she just said, "I thought you'd never ask." So we went to the opera, we went to all the Dayton Playhouse shows, and the Broadway series when it came to town, the poetry slam. We went and saw that band that dresses like vampires. You guys, they just got a hearse. And it was great. Her younger coworkers wanted to go see Post Malone, and I was so into it that I not only got a ticket to Post Malone, I bought us wide leg jeans so we wouldn't stand out among the youths. And it was a great time.

• 7:55Speaker 01

  But I wanted to see this one really artsy play that was out of town. So we decided to go to that. What I learned is, there's a level of artsiness that I do not get. But that's okay. I still heard it. And we had a great hotel that I had booked for a great price because I did not notice that it was a micro hotel with bunk beds. So, I'm laying in the top bunk. And I've realized, I've brought Katie on so many goofy situations now, I have to tell her what I'm thinking. So I leaned over, like I'm at camp, and I said, "You're being a really good friend." And I spilled everything. I told her about how I was worried that I would go deaf, and maybe I wouldn't be able to communicate with people that I care about, and what about my job?

• 8:38Speaker 01

  And would I still be able to enjoy the things I enjoy now? And at that time, Taylor Swift had only put out the first Taylor's version album? And do I look like I want to miss that?

• 8:52Speaker 01

  And she said, "Okay, okay. I think you're a lot more resilient than you're giving yourself credit for. Also, I'd like to see you try to get rid of me, or any of your friends." And then she got deadly serious and said, "Should we try to learn ASL? Because then we could talk about people in the same room." And I am trying to learn ASL. I have made it through soda pop, so. But a couple of weeks later, Katie texted me because her mom had tickets to the Dayton Philharmonic, and would I want to go with them? Of course, because the orchestra is classic theater, lady. Because it's fancy. So we got dressed up. You guys, we went to the spaghetti warehouse. And, yeah. And we came down, and it was at the Schuster, so beautiful theater, like, the whole orchestra. It was so great.

• 9:37Speaker 01

  But there was this one player in the orchestra, this cello player, that I noticed. Because if I had to describe him, unfortunately, hunky. Like, just very tall, very good-looking. And he was, he had those protagonist vibes that I've always wanted. Like, he wasn't just playing, he was performing. And I pointed him out to Katie, and she said, "Oh, he's on the cover of the program." And he was. It wasn't the whole orchestra, it was just like him, and his cello, and a fog machine. Like, he's the, he's the front man for the Dayton Philharmonic. So we're like, kind of laughing about this. And, you know, but the music's like, really enthralling. It's really cool. It's a nice experience, and I'm having fun with my two friends. And then, it's over. We walk back to the, to the arts garage, where we all parked, and get in our car.

• 10:22Speaker 01

  Katie's driving. We like, get to the garage exit, and we're just hooting and hollering about how funny we are, and should we wait by the stage door and all this? And, like, the garage, like, the arm thing lifts, and she kind of guns it to pull out of the parking garage, and then slams on her brakes. Because there, in the middle of North Ludlow, and we're barreling right at him. It's the hot cellist. And he's got his cello on his back, he's got his headphones in his ears, he's on his own audio journey, clearly. And Katie's mom points straight through the windshield and screams, "Don't hit him." And at that moment, I realized, like, this is something of a universal experience, really. Whether I go deaf or not, everyone's gonna hear their last thing.

• 11:04Speaker 01

  And so, so now I get my hearing tested annually. And the last few times, like, yeah, I am pretty deaf in my right ear.

• 11:15Speaker 01

  But I always ask the tech, like, "Ooh, is there any change?" And she usually tells me no before the doctor, like, even comes in, at least the last two times, which is such a relief. So I might still get to hear "Refutation: Taylor's Version" with my own natural ears. But I learned about, like, a new way to connect with people, and I supported the shit out of the arts. And I learned that Dayton is, like, full of these big, bold main characters, and there's still time to be one. So, thank you, guys.

• 11:52Speaker 00

  That was Lauren Karch. Lauren is a writer and local government employee, and she says, yes, it is just like Parkson Rec, in the happiest place on earth, the greater Dayton area. She tells stories in Dayton and encourages you to check out your local art scene. Also, if you were wondering, the hot cello player who Lauren talked about in her story heard through the grapevine that he was mentioned onstage. We hope you're listening, hot cello player. The summer before my last semester of college, I had an internship in New York City. I knew it was going to feel very different from my Kansas college town, and I was scared. Enter Sean, a friend of a friend who had just graduated and was moving to NYC to start

• 12:33Speaker 00

  a new job. We made plans for a polite, lonely desperation meetup, which turned into us hitting it off in a real way and spending almost every free minute together that summer. We got our bearings, stayed out late bar hopping and eating cheap food, and screeched in panic as his toilet overflowed and flooded his tiny studio while I shouted, "How do you turn off water?" at my dad over the phone. A real bonding kind of summer. Almost 15 years later, I am no better at troubleshooting plumbing issues, and he is still one of my closest friends. Our next story is from Valerie Walker, who told it at a Story Slam where the theme was chemistry. Here's Valerie, live at the Moth.

• 13:20Speaker 02

  So, on Sunday, I had a reunion with a woman that I went to college with. I hadn't seen her for 34 years. I know, I look good. And, um, the thing, you're probably wondering, after 34 years, like, what do you care? I had actually been carrying her in my heart for the intervening time. And we were an odd pair, for sure. We met in college, a very impressionable time. She was from a small town in Arkansas. I still had the grit from New York City in my pockets.

• 14:00Speaker 02

  She was artful with her makeup and painted on a natural-looking face. And smelled like beautiful perfume. And I smelled like a mix of soap and whatever moisturizer I was using. And so, looking at us, you would think, like, what do they have in common? And I wondered that myself, but there was such, she was so kind. There was such a space that we created that was just joyful and very, very loving and super-duper fun. And then, I came out as a lesbian.

• 14:39Speaker 02

  And one of the ways that I processed my internalized homophobia was I was suddenly scared that my really rich friendships with women were gonna be called into question. That she would no longer be as affectionate, or wonder what was my motive for being affectionate back. And we had such a great relationship, like, I don't know that song, "I Love You, a Bushel on a Peck, a Bushel on a Peck," I don't know all the words. But one day, she wrote that entire lyric on my door, like, as a note. Yeah, it was just adorable and very, very dope. And we had this, we had this ritual where like when we would go to dinner,

• 15:21Speaker 02

  I would go to her room, she would change out of her fabulously stylish outfit. But she was shy, so she would go into her walk-in closet. And then we would continue to talk while she changed. And when she was in the closet, her voice would be muffled like this. And then when she came out, it would be really clear. And so one day I'm in her room and waiting for her to change. And I am playing with the stuff on her dresser. So I'm not really paying attention. Her voice went from muffle, muffle, muffle back to clear. And so I look up. Except she had changed the routine and had come out of the closet not completely dressed.

• 15:58Speaker 02

  In her sweatpants and bra and she was very easy on the eyes. Okay, so now in that moment, I'm saying to myself, don't stare. You're staring. Oh my God, look at her eyes, they're higher. And so I'm, you know, having a little bit of gay freak out. And so, but we regulated, went to dinner and everything got normal once everybody had their clothes back on. So, you know, super cool. And I, she was just really, just a great person. Our friendship was so enjoyable.

• 16:43Speaker 02

  And yet, that's the casualty of being a lesbian, right? Is the chemistry. Women are so cool and dope. It's really, it's really easy to fall for you guys. It's just, the hard part is finding out the appropriate person to fall in love with. And I'm not gonna lie, I slept with a few varying genders in college, meaning straight women, but she was not one of them. And then after college, we lost touch. And recently, she started following me on Instagram. And then more recently, DM'd me that she was coming into New York and wanted to meet up. And I went to the place at the appointed time.

• 17:27Speaker 02

  And I was super curious about how it would feel to see her again. I knew that she meant so much to me. But I also understand that what means something to you doesn't mean the same to somebody else. And then suddenly she was in front of me. And then she was in my arms and I was in hers. And it was a great hug, a long hug, a strong hug. One of those hugs where you just rock side to side. And then we stopped and we sat down and we caught up. We cried and we laughed and we held hands when shit was super hard to say. And it was really beautiful.

• 18:10Speaker 02

  I could recognize it for what it was. A blinding furious and beautiful love that it was absolutely okay to have. And that was not in any way base. And we were sitting there and I'm telling her that how much her friendship has meant to me. And then she flipped it and told me how much my friendship had meant to her. And that she's not nostalgic and she doesn't even have any pictures from college. But she has two that she's printed out and one of them is of me. Yeah, I know, right? And so it was just so affirming in that moment to know that she was mine and I was hers. And if anyone ever asks me about the great loves of my life, she will be one that I talk about.

• 18:55Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 19:06Speaker 00

  That was Valerie Walker. She is an activist, artist and storyteller whose stories challenge perceptions and build community through shared feelings. Survival as triumph and vulnerability as strength are key themes in her work. After the break, another story about how friends can stick with you. Back in a moment. Welcome back. Our final story is from Matthew Dix, who told this at one of our open mic story slams in Boston. Here's Matthew, live at the Moth.

• 19:42Speaker 03

  I'm sitting in the break room of a McDonald's restaurant in Milford, Massachusetts. I'm eating an Egg McMuffin and I am not happy. It is the spring of 1987. I'm 16 years old and it's not the Egg McMuffin that's causing me to be unhappy because an Egg McMuffin is the most guaranteed source of joy in my entire day. But not on this day. I'm upset because I'm about to meet my mortal enemy for the first time and I know it's not gonna go well. I've been working at this restaurant for two months now. I actually live three towns away in Blackstone, Massachusetts. But I found out that this place pays $4.65 an hour and that's 20 cents more than the White Hen Pantry, five minutes from my house.

• 20:24Speaker 03

  And I figured, even though it's a 30-minute drive, the 20 cents will absolutely make up for the time and the gas, which it does not. But it changes my life in a really significant way because when I arrive here, I discover the joy of a clean slate. I'm growing up in a tiny town, 82 kids are in my class, they're the same 82 kids I knew in kindergarten, and they remember everything. And so when you wanna be something different, or you decide you could be something better, no one lets you because they remember everything. They still talk about the time in 6th grade when I exposed myself to class because my gym shorts were a little too short and my underwear was a little too big and it was a little too much man-spreting.

• 21:07Speaker 03

  They talk about it to this day. And they remember the braces and the buck teeth and the bad haircuts and the free and reduced lunches and all of that has prevented me from becoming something that I think I could be and being trapped in what they think I should be. But I've arrived in this new town, nobody knows me, and on the first day of work Erin Duran comes and asks me if I have a girlfriend and the way she's hoping I say no. And that's never happened to me before, so this is something. And it turns out that because they don't know me, I can be the thing I think I can be and suddenly I have more friends than I've ever had in my life. And I'm good at my job, shockingly good. In 1980s, the job at the McDonald's that is the hardest is running the bin. I have been a public school teacher for 24 years.

• 21:51Speaker 03

  Four years and I can tell you that I have not had a day in my classroom as taxing as a day running the bin at McDonald's during rush hour in 1987. It is, it is coordinating a kitchen full of 16 year olds and 60 year olds and convincing them all to do work for you at the same time. And watching a drive through screen and listening to cash registers and figuring out how much food needs to be here at any moment without causing waste and making sure profit. It's really hard and for some reason I can hold all this information right here and I'm good at.

• 22:22Speaker 00

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• 23:07Speaker 00

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• 24:16Speaker 03

  At it and people respect me for it. But as soon as I got good at it, all I heard was one word. Benji. You're great, but Benji's better. Benji's the best bin person in this restaurant. Actually, he's the best person in this restaurant. He is fantastic and everyone loves him and everyone respects him. And I hate Benji. All they do is tell me how great he is. And with every single word they say, I hate him more. And then I discover they're telling him about me. And they're saying how this, this guy came in and he might be better than you. They're spreading gossip about me to him. And so we have never met each other, but we hate each other. And so this day, we're coming together for the first time. Our shifts are crossing and I'm gonna meet him. And so I go out into the dining room at the end of my break just to see him.

• 25:00Speaker 03

  Cause he's already working and I see him. There's nothing to this guy. Like, he's not that good looking. He's not an athlete. He's got the body of a bass player in a failing high school rock band. He is nothing. But I watch and a couple of minutes later, I realize I'm wrong. Cause he's funny. Effortlessly funny. And he's endearing to everyone. He makes the older customers who are waiting for Big Macs actually happy to be waiting for their Big Mac. And, and the managers love him. And he's good at the bin. Like, he is really good at calling bin. I hate him so much. And because he's doing my job, I have to run for drive through today, which is the second hardest job in the restaurant. Eighty percent of the orders go through the window.

• 25:44Speaker 03

  So eighty percent of the food will pass through my hands. But that means I need to work with the bin guy the whole time to coordinate and negotiate and make sure everything runs, which means I have to work with Benji. And so for the first hour, we don't talk to each other unless it's about work. And we clearly hate each other. We're not hiding it in any way whatsoever. But unless it has to do with work, we don't say a word. And then after an hour, it gets like awkward and I start to think, maybe he thinks I'm afraid to say something to him. So I'm like, no, I'm gonna do something here. And so I go up to him and I say, "Why are you coming in at 10:30 on a Saturday? What's 10:30?" And he says, "I watch Saturday morning cartoons." Which in 1986 is a thing. All the new cartoons, the Smurfs and the Snorks and Super Friends are all out in the morning.

• 26:27Speaker 03

  And we eat sugar disguised as cereal and we watch these things. And he says, "The gummy bears start at 9:30 and they end at 10:00 and then I come to work." And he says it without irony or embarrassment. I can't believe it.

• 26:42Speaker 03

  And so I walk over to the, to the drive thru, I drop a bag off, and when I come back to the bin, I say, "Listen to me."

• 26:49Speaker 03

  "Dashing and daring, courageous and caring, faithful and friendly with stories to share." And I take some food and I walk back to the drive thru. And as I come back over, he is singing before I get to the bin. He says, "All through the forest they sing out in chorus, marching along as their songs fill the air. And standing next to the bin with Benji, we sing together. Gummy bears, bouncing here and there and everywhere. High adventure that's beyond compare, they are the gummy bears." There's a second verse, a bridge, and another chorus. I will not share them with you, but we sing them that day. Because I watched the gummy bears too.

• 27:33Speaker 03

  And to this day, I can sing that song. And that's it. A single theme song to a cartoon melts all the ice between us. And thirty-seven years later, he is still my best friend.

• 27:50Speaker 03

  It is the most significant relationship in my life, with the exception of my marriage. When I get thrown out of my house when I'm seventeen, Benji takes me in and lets me live in his college apartment. And when I'm twenty-one and I need a credit card and can't get one, he gives me his extra card and says, "Just use it and pay me when you can." He saves my life again and again and again. And this day, we live in Connecticut, two miles from each other. And when I think back on that day that I stood at that bin and sang a cartoon song to him, I'm reminded how little it takes to sort of reach out to someone

• 28:33Speaker 03

  and like just open the crack of a window. And you just get the window open and then it becomes a door and it becomes a lifetime. Thank you.

• 28:53Speaker 00

  That was Matthew Dix. He's an elementary school teacher and novelist whose books include Memoirs of an Imaginary Friend, Something Missing, and Unexpectedly Milo. He's the founder and creative director of Speak Up, a Hartford-based storytelling organization. Matt loves ice cream cake, tickling his children, staring at his wife, and not sleeping. That brings us to the end of our episode. Thank you to our storytellers for sharing with us and to you for listening. We hope that this week and every week, your friends are there for you.

• 29:27Speaker 04

  Chloe Salmon is a director at The Moth. Her favorite Moth moments come on show days when the cardio is done, the house lights go down, and the magic settles in. Lauren Karch's story was directed by Sarah Austin Jenness. This episode of The Moth Podcast was produced by Sarah Austin Jenness, Sarah Jane Johnson, and me, Mark Sollinger. The rest of The Moth's leadership team includes Gina Duncan, Christina Norman, Marina Kluchay, Jennifer Hickson, Jordan Cardenale, Caledonia Cairns, Kate Tellers, Suzanne Rust, and Patricia Uranya. The Moth Podcast is presented by Odyssey. Special thanks to their executive producer, Leah Reese Dennis. All Moth stories are true, as remembered by their storytellers.

• 30:11Speaker 04

  For more about our podcast, information on pitching your own story, and everything else, go to our website, themoth.org.