Bonus | Smart Devices

In this bonus episode, The Minimalists talk about the clutter that is often caused by smart devices. Discussed in this episode: Should I let go of my Apple Watch, Peloton, WHOOP, and other fitness trackers and smart devices? (1:09) How are The Minimalists using social media after their 2024 break? (18:47) New York Times article mentioned: https://mnml.st/devices Recorded at Earthing Studios http://earthing.com/simple.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:20Speaker 00

  Every little thing you think that you need. Every little thing you think that you need. Every little thing that's just feeding your greed. Oh, I bet that you'd be fine without it.

• 0:39Speaker 01

  You're listening to the Minimalist Podcast with Joshua Fields Milburn and TK Coleman, recorded live at Earthing Studios in sunny California.

• 0:47Joshua Fields Millburn?

  Yes, thank you, Malibu. A little special bonus episode. If you're hearing my voice right now, our studio's actually closed this week. I'm on the East Coast. I'll be out in DC and Virginia and Maryland filming for the minimalist new documentary. Well, we didn't want you to go another week without a little bit of the minimalists in your life. And so I thought we'd answer a question today about smart devices. What do you got for us, Malibu?

• 1:15Speaker 01

  We have a question here from Mindy. She said, "I would like to go without so many smart devices. I have an Apple Watch, Peloton, a Whoop, and some additional health and fitness trackers. How much do I really need to be obsessed with my health and fitness measurements?"

• 1:29Joshua Fields Millburn?

  Whoop, there it is. Come on, TK.

• 1:33Speaker 03

  You've been saving that one for a long time.

• 1:36Speaker 01

  Yes, he has.

• 1:37Speaker 03

  Since the song came out.

• 1:38Joshua Fields Millburn?

  Yeah, yeah, right? So, the smart device thing is interesting. I have a smart device on right now. It is an Oura Ring. I use it to track my sleep. But I also know that my wife went through a period with just completely going without it because she began to obsess over it. And I think, to me, that is the point where it makes sense to set something down. If it becomes an obsession as opposed to a measurement, sometimes measurements are helpful. They allow us to identify, maybe it's a blood glucose monitor, right? Or maybe it is some... Sort of sleep tracker or it's a fitness tracker. This actually does both. It helps me understand what my patterns are. It also helps me understand when do I go to bed on average? Here's a stat I looked up this morning because I knew we'd be talking about this question.

• 2:23Joshua Fields Millburn?

  And my worst sleep nights of the entire week, on average, almost every week are Monday nights. Cause we come in here. Oh, no. I know. We come in here on Tuesdays and so like, I think I just hype myself up the night before. Like, I've got to get a great night's sleep. I gotta get a great night's sleep. Oh, what's my sleep? I saw, I don't even look at the sleep scores in the morning because then it makes me even feel worse. Because every other day, it's like, oh, you got another amazing sleep score. Your sleep score was 93 last night. I'm like, well, that's fine. I'm gonna get up and write today, but on podcast days, like your sleep score was a 63 and you were tossing and turning and it took you a while to fall asleep. And, and sometimes that type of measuring can make us a bit neurotic

• 3:07Joshua Fields Millburn?

  or it can point us in a direction in which we want to travel.

• 3:10Speaker 03

  Reminds me of the old C.S. Lewis quote, "A man who tries to measure how quickly he is falling asleep is likely to remain awake all night." Sometimes we forget that measurement is a means to an end. And when measurement becomes the thing itself, when it becomes the focal point of the obsession, then it's just another distraction.

• 3:28Joshua Fields Millburn?

  I think some of these devices are a real blessing. They help us better understand our biology. And I have a friend who has a continuous glucose monitor and she was talking about how it really helps. She understands like if I eat a banana, I get this huge insulin spike or the, and it makes me feel a particular way as well. So you can see which foods trigger you. But then once you know which foods trigger, you don't have to have that in perpetuity. And I think the same is true with any of these devices. They can be a wonderful blessing. As soon as they become obligatory, I have to use these things. I have to measure, I have to monitor. These obligatory blessings become a burden.

• 4:07Speaker 03

  And you know, it's like that when we start a new venture. Maybe there's some new subject you want to learn. And someone says, oh, here's a great book to start. Oh, but this one's really good too, because it highlights these aspects of it. Now, this one's really good because it makes all the ideas accessible. But this one's good because it has a lot of good stories that really stick with you. This is really good because it's more nuanced. And then you buy five books on the topic you haven't read one. Or you buy a new computer, you buy some new technology, you buy a new TV. Oh, now this one's good because it has this accessory. Oh, and you're probably going to want this accessory. And you probably need this and all this is a special remote for this or that. And we allow ourselves to be sold so many things without first giving ourselves the opportunity to experience how that thing fits in, in the rhythm of our lives. Social media is another thing. Oh, you got a business, you got a brand, you got a product you want to promote?

• 4:51Speaker 03

  Well, this is a social media where all these people are hanging out. Here's a social media where these people who are also your clients. And this is the one that's popular in the US. This is the one that's popular in the UK. This is one that's popular with liberals. This is the one that's popular with the conservatives. And you got all these social media accounts. And you never gave yourself the chance to build momentum with one. And you're too stressed to really simplify and focus. And so sometimes we, it's best to build incrementally, to start with one thing. And say, let me give myself the chance to experience how this flows and integrates with the rhythms of my life. And then ask myself a month later, do I need to add something to it? So you got three things, or however many you got. You don't need to get rid of them all permanently. But you can say, let me just see what it's like to go this week wearing only one or using only one.

• 5:36Speaker 03

  And you can rotate and see how that feels. Because maybe you bought all these things with excitement and maybe they do all have something amazing to offer. But you don't have to have them all. And you know what the most powerful sentence in your question was? That gives you more guidance than anything we could say? It's when you said, I would like to go without so many smart devices. That's your heart talking to you. And you've got the power to make that happen.

• 6:00Joshua Fields Millburn?

  At first, maybe your heart was talking to you in a different way. I would like to try to measure, to try to track some things. But you probably had a why behind that. My sleep kinda sucks. Or, you know what? I think that if I measure my fitness standards, then I will end up becoming more fit. And then you start to get into the more granular. What do I want out of this? Is it six-pack abs? Or I just wanna feel really good when I wake up in the morning? I wanna feel really good when I'm playing with my kids in the evening? And so, these things can help point you in that direction. But don't confuse these things. This is the finger pointing at the moon. It is not the moon itself. And unfortunately, we often play dress up. And this is fitness dress up.

• 6:44Joshua Fields Millburn?

  It's like, if I just put on all of the right accessories, I get all the right accoutrements. It's like, I think about the guy who shows up at the park and he's got on the brand-new basketball shorts and the brand-new Jordans on. He's got the brand-new jersey on. He's got the headband and the wristbands. And you're like, oh, this guy's gonna get schooled today. He has no idea, cuz he's playing dress up. He's cosplaying as a basketball player. And we have to be careful not to cosplay as a fitness person. I want to be this type of person, so I'm just gonna buy that person's accessories. I'll buy a really expensive guitar. It doesn't make me Jimi Hendrix. I'll buy a really expensive computer. It doesn't make me Stephen King. And yet, these tools can be useful. Jimi Hendrix did use a guitar.

• 7:29Joshua Fields Millburn?

  And, of course, Stephen King uses a computer or a typewriter or a pencil. He uses some sort of instrument to write these stories. The tools are useful when you're able to use them. However, if you're just buying things because of, what do we call that? Pleionexia, the things that you can count. I often think about minimalism. Minimalism is not about counting your things. It's about owning only the things that count. And do these things count for you? And if not, then they might be clutter. They might be getting in the way. Simple living doesn't have to do with getting rid of everything. But if something is in your way, getting it out of the way is the best way to move forward. Now, Mal, you had some more insights here. You had an article, was it from the Times?

• 8:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, this is from the New York Times called "The Fitness Trends That Experts Hate", by Tayla Minsberg. Here's what she had to say. Fitness advice on social media can be littered with misinformation and impossible promises. No single exercise can give you a six pack and just because someone has a large following doesn't mean they're qualified to give fitness advice, said Dr. Amy Commander, the director of the Lifestyle Medicine Program at Massachusetts General Hospital. If you are setting a fitness goal this year, it's wise to steer clear of any fitness plan that promises a quick and easy fix. If something sounds too good to be true, it probably is. Focus on finding movements you enjoy and building a regular habit rather than the latest miracle workout.

• 8:57Speaker 01

  I asked dozens of experts about the fitness trends that irk them the most and what they recommended doing instead. Number one, skip the 75 hard challenge. Do you guys remember talking about this with Nicodemus?

• 9:09Joshua Fields Millburn?

  Yeah, and he really enjoyed it. But I think for some people, that's like a reset. And for some people, I think it's overwhelming. Last week on the private podcast, we were talking about the owning of, or the investments, right? And how sometimes when we get so overwhelmed because it feels like I can't invest enough or I need to put so much in that I'm just going to throw my hands up. How am I possibly going to set aside 25% of my income or 15% of my income? No, it's starting somewhere. And sometimes these things can actually get in the way when we feel like there's too much to take on.

• 9:45Speaker 01

  Yeah. Here's what the article continues to say is, "The viral challenge 75 hard took hold last year. The key to mental and physical toughness its proponents claimed was following a set of daily rules for 75 days. Work out twice for 45 minutes, maintain a strict diet, drink a gallon of water, and read at least 10 pages of nonfiction, among other things. While the idea of transforming yourself in 75 days might sound appealing, the challenge is extremely unsustainable," said Victoria Sekely, a physical therapist in New Jersey and the founder of Train Smart, Run Strong, a running and strength coaching program. "It is quite possibly the worst way to set good habits. Exercising twice a day, especially if you're new to a workout, is a good way to injure

• 10:29Speaker 01

  yourself and to create completely unrealistic expectations around exercise," she added. "To build a healthy exercise habit, start simply and find an activity that you enjoy enough to practice consistently. If you have a specific fitness goal, consider hiring a coach or a personal trainer who can work with you to develop an individualized plan." Number two, don't be fooled by targeted weight loss workouts. Whether it's a side plank for a flat stomach or Pilates for toned arms, TikTok and Instagram are brimming with videos that claim there is one move or workout that will help you lose weight in one area of your body, long before social media fitness magazines made similar promises. But you should be wary of anyone promoting spot reduction or the idea that certain exercises will lead to targeted weight loss,

• 11:14Speaker 01

  said Ray Rachlin, the founder of Ladies Who Lift in Chicago. While you can strengthen different muscle groups by working different parts of your body, you cannot target where you want to lose weight. Instead of hunting for one move that can do it all, practice a full body strength training routine twice a week, said Robin Laland, the head coach and owner of Edge Athlete Lounge in Chicago. If you prefer to work out at home, you can still build strength with little or no equipment.

• 11:41Joshua Fields Millburn?

  Maybe we pause there for a moment just to recognize that, yeah, I think that some of these going all the way in, like the 75 hard thing is a bit challenging for someone and it can be demoralizing. But for some people, it can actually be inspiring. I think about Nicodemus and I when we first jumped into minimalism. My approach was appreciably different from his. I spent eight months simplifying my life. I got rid of about 90% of my possessions, but it took me eight months. It wasn't as extreme. He boxed up everything in a weekend with me and then unpacked only the things he needed over the course of 21 days. I don't think that would have worked for me. That seemed too extreme for me. But for someone like him, he benefited from being able to do that

• 12:23Joshua Fields Millburn?

  and then carried that forward, not because he was doing a packing party every weekend. Or maybe the 75 hard is not sustainable long term, but maybe it sets up a foundation upon which you can build.

• 12:34Speaker 01

  For sure.

• 12:34Speaker 03

  Yeah, sometimes doing really hard things can make you say, wow, that was tough. I couldn't do that forever. But what the heck? For 75 days in a row, I did that? Well, if I cut all of that in half or down to the fourth. I could probably live that. And now you know what you're capable of.

• 12:53Joshua Fields Millburn?

  Yeah, you know what your limits are. So then you can set up a boundary that you you never have to go extend to those limits again. But you can still have a a healthy habit in the process.

• 13:04Speaker 01

  For sure. Number three is steer clear of what I eat in a day videos. Many fitness influencers share detailed videos of their meals and snacks, often including calorie counts and protein breakdowns. While these posts may seem like harmless entertainment, they often promote diets that don't fit everyone's needs. All of us have different heights, different weights, different body compositions, said Dr. Commander. And in some cases, comparing your own diet to what you see on social media might encourage disordered eating, said Megan Featherstone, a sports dietitian in Kent, Ohio. It's also worth remembering that those posts may not even be accurate. What someone shares may not be what they really eat on a day to day basis, particularly if they make a living promoting sponsored products.

• 13:48Speaker 01

  If you're looking for guidance on what to eat to support your fitness goals, you will be better off making an appointment with a nutritionist or a sports dietitian. Number four, don't fixate on whether your heart rate is in zone two. In recent years, everyone from running influencers to Andrew Huberman has claimed that low intensity zone two training might be the secret to better fitness. Zone two refers to the second of five heart rate zones, which range from a relaxed effort to your maximum intensity. Exercising in zone two will help build endurance and develop your aerobic capacity. And there can be real benefits of spending a lot of training time at this effort, particularly for endurance athletes. But it can also be counterproductive to fixate on your heart rate, said James McCurdy, the

• 14:32Speaker 01

  founder and head coach of McCurdy Training, a coaching service in Flagstaff, Arizona. Many factors, including stress, weather, and sleep patterns can affect your heart rate. And your heart rate data on a smartwatch or fitness tracker may not always be accurate. Instead, Mr. McCurdy recommended paying attention to how hard your workout actually feels. If you're focused on building your endurance, many of your workouts should be relatively easy. Aim for a pace where you could hold a conversation. What matters most is actual feeling and intensity, Mr. McCurdy said. Number four, resist the urge to overshare your workout stats. If you use a fitness tracker, it can be tempting to obsess over the data it gives you.

• 15:13Speaker 01

  But while some stats can be helpful, it's far too easy to go overboard, said Catherine Larson, a cardiologist at the Sports Cardiology Clinic at the Mayo Clinic. She said that some of her patients are so fixated on their devices that, quote, "At the end of the day, they've kind of lost focus on why the exercise is important in the first place." That can be particularly true if you share and compare your data on social media or apps like Strava. The truth is those numbers don't necessarily mean much without context, Dr. Sekali said. Instead of letting your watch or an online audience shape your sense of how you feel after a workout, check in with yourself first. "Don't let the data dictate your day," Dr. Sekali said. If you felt good, that's what counts, even if your stats aren't quite right, aren't quite

• 15:58Speaker 01

  what you expected.

• 15:59Joshua Fields Millburn?

  Let's pause there and, you know, we'll put a link to the article in the show notes if you want to read the whole thing. But I think that point is an important one to wrap up on here because sometimes you might get some stats that demoralize you. And we get back to these smart devices here. And you know what? If I'm, I exercise every day, I go on a long hike and I go swimming almost every day. And then I'll also do some body weight stuff in between. There are things I tend to enjoy and the measurement is a byproduct of that. I happen to be wearing the, or a ring when I'm doing that, or if you're wearing a whoop strap or whatever else you're wearing. But keep in mind, none of these smart devices are essential. They're all non-essential.

• 16:43Joshua Fields Millburn?

  Now, they might add value to your life, so they're not junk if they add value to your life, but you can exercise without a smart device. You don't need a particular piece of equipment to be the fittest version of you. You'll have access to whatever you need in order to be fit and also understand that you have access to things that you enjoy, that, you know what? You don't need any accoutrements to enjoy your fitness.

• 17:09Speaker 03

  There is a pattern that was present in that article we just read that I'll apply to this issue here. And the pattern of reasoning is XYZ can be valuable. However, there is a context within which XYZ can lead to self-defeating or harmful results. That's true of everything. Also, the article. This article can be valuable if it helps you avoid extremes. However, it can be self-defeating and harmful if you cause it to overwhelm you and discourage you to the point that you never do any workout whatsoever. And so, everything in life can be valuable within a proper context, but outside of that context,

• 17:52Speaker 03

  outside of thinking critically and knowing what balance looks and feels like for you at a deeply personal level, it can be harmful. And so, it all comes down for you. What does balance look like? What does balance feel like? If the doctor said, hey, I need you to monitor your heart rate. All right. What tool gives you that? But I would take the approach of saying, let me write down the things that I can remember I want to focus on before I look at the features. Because there's always an extra feature that could possibly somehow benefit you. But forget about that. What are the features I can remember based on the reason I bought these things in the first place? Because I know I need to keep up with these things. And then let everything else go that doesn't give you those essentials.

• 18:34Joshua Fields Millburn?

  How about you, listeners? Do you have any insights about smart devices? Anything we haven't talked about today? Send a voice recording to [email protected] so we can air your tip on a future episode. Let's do it real quick, right here, right now, before we wrap up this episode. We've been doing some decluttering tips now over on Instagram and our other social media platforms. You can follow us at The Minimalist. After our year-long hiatus from social media, we have returned. We stopped using social media in 2024, and we returned in a different way, though. We're creating short, useful decluttering videos for our audience. And so, we're easing back into it. And as we ease back into it, let us know over on Instagram or your preferred platform.

• 19:19Joshua Fields Millburn?

  What kind of minimizing, decluttering, purchasing tips would you like to see from the minimalists? Also, on my personal Instagram account, I'm just @joshuafieldsmilburn. For the next couple of weeks, I'm going to be doing some home tour photos just on my personal Instagram stories. And so you can follow along if you're looking for some minimalist home decluttering inspiration. Also, if you have a favorite TikTok video or reel that you'd like us to comment on, or you think we might find interesting or funny while you're over there on social media, feel free to DM us your favorite decluttering reels so we can share the most useful and funny insights with our audience. And then finally, household clutter.

• 20:04Joshua Fields Millburn?

  Starting next week, we're doing a five-part series with some of your favorite minimalists, some of the most famous minimalists. We're going to be talking about your household clutter, whether that's living room clutter, or closet clutter, garage clutter, bedroom clutter, or cabinet clutter. There'll be a public podcast version, and of course, a private podcast version where we go in-depth over on Patreon. You can join us over there. Speaking of joining us, coming up, we have our next Sunday Symposium. It's in Orange County, and then we've got one in LA after that next month. You can get your free tickets, but only while they're available, over at sundaysymposium.com. Come on out, get a hug. We'd love to see you. We'll give a talk, we'll answer your questions, there'll be free coffee, a sound bath as well.

• 20:48Joshua Fields Millburn?

  We hope to see you in Orange County in February, or in Los Angeles in March. And that is our episode for today, our bonus episode for today. Big thanks to Earthing Studios for the recording space. On behalf of Ryan Nicodemus, TK Coleman, Malibu, post-production Peter, Spire Jeff, Inspired Dave, Savvy D, and the rest of our team. I'm Joshua Fields Milburn. If you leave here today with just one message, let it be this: Love people and use things, because the opposite never works. Thanks for listening, y'all.

• 21:19Speaker 01

  We'll see you next time.

• 21:21Joshua Fields Millburn?

  See you next time.