These 4 Words Will Silence Your Self-Doubt: A Life-Changing Conversation | The Mel Robbins Podcast

Order your copy of The Let Them Theory 👉 https://melrob.co/let-them-theory 👈 The #1 Best Selling Book of 2025 🔥 Discover how much power you truly have. It all begins with two simple words. Let Them. — In this episode, you and I are dismantling one of the most crippling forms of self-doubt. "Imposter Syndrome" is when you think you’re not good enough and that everyone else is smarter, more successful, and has more to contribute than you do. Everyone feels it. It’s so common that the Harvard Business Review found that even 70% of the world’s top executives have struggled with it. My mission today is to convince you that Imposter Syndrome is actually a GOOD thing. And I’ll use an example from my own life to prove my case. Come backstage with me to a huge music festival, where my daughter Kendall, an aspiring singer-songwriter, comes face-to-face with the famous musicians who inspired her career. Cue the panic. Self-doubt almost made her bail on what turned out to be a life-changing weekend in her career. She turned it around (you’ll hear how) and, as a result, was invited impromptu to perform twice with Grammy-Winning musicians! Listen and learn how to be more courageous and confident in those moments that really matter. I can’t wait for you to hear: - The 4 words Kendall repeated that crushed self-doubt and got her on stage. - The powerful mantra to say when you’re nervous walking into a room - How to use humor (and tuna sandwiches) to connect with anyone - Why being a "nobody" is the most amazing "somebody" you could be. It’s time to hit delete on your self-doubt forever. This one is so good and so relatable that you’ll be yelling, Encore! Xo, Mel In this episode: 00:00 Intro 03:14 Harvard Business Review says imposter syndrome is the #1 fear of executives. 05:40 Kendall puts us at the scene of her own paralyzing episode of self-doubt. 07:20 Imagine being surrounded by everyone you’ve ever admired your entire life. 09:32 This is the message you need to hear if you’re deep in self-doubt. 13:08 My own story of feeling like an imposter before I became a speaker. 15:39 Here’s how to start shifting your mindset and boost your confidence. 21:23 The piece of advice that will help you stand taller. 22:30 Once you change your mindset, your actions fall into place. 24:00 YOU have a gift to offer even the most experienced people in your field. 25:13 The seven words Kendall dropped that I’m still thinking about. 27:15 The #1 takeaway from this conversation about self-doubt. 28:21 OWN where you are … and here’s what we mean by that. 31:04 What you’re thinking will happen probably won’t. 33:55 Are you waiting for validation? Listen to this. 37:20 There’s a reason you’re here. Here’s how to start believing that. 40:25 Here’s why imposter syndrome is a GOOD thing. #impostersyndrome #selfdoubt — Follow Mel: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/melrobbins/ TikTok: http://tiktok.com/@melrobbins Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/melrobbins LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/melrobbins Website: http://melrobbins.com​ — Sign up for Mel’s newsletter: https://melrob.co/sign-up-newsletter A note from Mel to you, twice a week, sharing simple, practical ways to build the life you want. — Subscribe to Mel’s channel here: https://www.youtube.com/melrobbins​?sub_confirmation=1 — Listen to The Mel Robbins Podcast 🎧 New episodes drop every Monday & Thursday! https://melrob.co/spotify https://melrob.co/applepodcasts https://melrob.co/amazonmusic — Looking for Mel’s books on Amazon? Find them here: The Let Them Theory: https://amzn.to/3IQ21Oe The Let Them Theory Audiobook: https://amzn.to/413SObp The High 5 Habit: https://amzn.to/3fMvfPQ The 5 Second Rule: https://amzn.to/4l54fah

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Mel Robbins?

  Hey, it's your friend Mel and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast.

• 0:07Mel Robbins?

  Today, we are going to get right into it. We're going to talk about imposter syndrome. And the reason why I wanted to talk about this is because our daughter Kendall, who is 23 years old, just had a situation this weekend at this music festival that triggered imposter syndrome. And I thought, why don't we unpack this moment where your imposter syndrome got triggered? And then, more importantly, the incredible things that you shared with me that helped you turn it around. So ladies and gentlemen, everybody who's listening, Kendall Robbins.

• 0:41Speaker 01

  Hey, everybody.

• 0:42Mel Robbins?

  All right, so tell us what happened.

• 0:44Speaker 01

  Okay, so this past weekend, I had my first experience as an artist in the real artist world, is what I'm going to call it.

• 0:57Mel Robbins?

  What does artist mean?

• 0:59Speaker 01

  I am pursuing a career as a professional recording and touring artist. And I'm a singer songwriter. I've started to write my own music. I'm moving out to LA in a few weeks' time. And this past weekend was my first experience surrounded by really successful artists that are doing the thing that I want to do. And as somebody that's been in school for the past four years, I've had very few experiences like this. And so this past weekend was my first few days fully existing in that world without the label of a student on my back. I didn't have that sort of shadow to hide in anymore. I was feeling embarrassed. I was feeling awkward. I was feeling

• 1:44Speaker 01

  like an imposter, like I don't belong because I don't have music out and I don't have fans and I don't have a social media following.

• 1:51Mel Robbins?

  Let's just back the truck up a minute. So let's just set the table. First of all, every human being struggles with moments of imposter syndrome.

• 2:01Mel Robbins?

  I'm looking at the research right here, everybody. I've got my research. Psychologists call this fear of being found out Imposter syndrome. It was coined in the 1970s by two female researchers. In fact, Harvard Business Review, Kendall, says that executives worldwide agree that their number one fear is being found to be incompetent.

• 2:24Speaker 01

  Oh, okay.

• 2:25Mel Robbins?

  So this is a very normal thing for everybody to experience. And it is called intellectual self doubt, where you enter a situation, or you enter a room, or you think about doing something, and in your own mind, you start doubting yourself, you start doubting whether or not you're able to do something, you start doubting whether or not you deserve to be in a certain place, and you start feeling worried that people are going to find out that you have no idea what you're talking about. And one thing that I will say from the get go is the reason why I wanted to have you on is because the situation that you found yourself in on Friday morning just a few

• 3:07Mel Robbins?

  days ago is not only so relatable, but I was pretty impressed by how you coached yourself through it and turned it around and had one of the coolest, most affirming weekends of your life. And I know that you have a lot of value to share. So are you willing to go there?

• 3:33Speaker 01

  Yes, I am willing.

• 3:34Mel Robbins?

  Okay, great. So, put us at the scene. What was happening Friday morning?

• 3:39Speaker 01

  So this past weekend, I was lucky enough to go to a music festival and I had an artist pass, which means that I got to watch all of the musicians and artists that were performing at the festival perform from backstage in this separate area that the people with the artist pass can hang out in. And I didn't really know what that meant until I got there.

• 4:00Mel Robbins?

  What did you think it meant?

• 4:01Speaker 01

  I honestly had no idea what artist pass meant. I was just like, sweet, okay, I get to cut the line. That's really awesome. I feel really grateful. And then I walked backstage and I'm surrounded by all of these like very established musicians and artists and performers and people that I've been listening to for the past however many years.

• 4:19Mel Robbins?

  What was that like?

• 4:20Speaker 01

  I mean, it was... It was really scary at first because I had no idea that I was gonna be within arms' reach of all these people that I've looked up to for the past few years. And being there as somebody that has just gotten out of school, does not have anything released, is just in the woods right now figuring out who I want to be, what I want to be, what I want to write, what I want to release. I basically don't exist right now in the world that I'm stepping into. And so stepping into this festival as somebody that doesn't really exist online or in this industry yet, but stepping into it physically and being surrounded by all these people was just incredibly daunting and honestly terrifying.

• 5:03Speaker 01

  And I felt really scared and awkward and I stood alone a lot of the time.

• 5:09Mel Robbins?

  Can you put us at the moment when you arrive at the festival, you get this pass that is a special thing around your wrist that gives you all access to go anywhere? And you walk into almost like the tent that serves as the green room?

• 5:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, okay, okay, okay. So I have a family friend that works at this festival and has been going to this festival for a while. So he was the one that was actually able to get me the artist's pass. I knew that there were some VIP features of this pass, but I did not know what my days were gonna look like. I didn't know what the schedule was like. And so basically, we get to the festival, we cut the line, we go to this special tent where I get this wristband, and then we walk into the festival. Immediately, we're in this crowd, I'm seeing all the food tents, smelling all the smells, seeing all the people. And then we go behind the stage into this roped off section. Meanwhile, the family friend that I am with is sort of showing me the ropes, but of course,

• 6:10Speaker 01

  he's very busy and has things to be doing at the festival. And he said, "This is sort of the hangout spot." Okay, I gotta go now. And I was like, okay.

• 6:18Mel Robbins?

  So you're 15 minutes into this?

• 6:20Speaker 01

  30 minutes in, I'm wearing a long skirt and it's 85 degrees outside, which automatically I'm a rookie. And he says, okay, this is sort of the hangout spot. This is sort of our touch point. We can meet here. There's not a lot of service at the festival. So if you ever-

• 6:36Mel Robbins?

  In terms of cell service?

• 6:36Speaker 01

  Cell service. There's no service at the festival. So if you need to find me, we'll just meet at this tent. I'm like, okay, sweet. I walk into the tent. I'm like, okay, free food, free drinks. This pass is freaking awesome.

• 6:48Mel Robbins?

  Right.

• 6:49Speaker 01

  And then I start to recognize a lot of artists whose music I have been listening to for years now, whose name I have seen on the lineup for the festival, who are now standing in front of me at the free food line. And so I'm thinking, oh my God, okay, this tent is where all the artists and performers hang out. And because I have this artist pass, I am also allowed to be in this tent. So I'm putting the pieces together slowly. Immediately my heart like drops to my stomach and I'm just like, why am I here? I should not be here. I should be out in that audience with people. I'm not performing. I'm not part of a band. I'm here on a family connection. I feel like,

• 7:31Speaker 01

  I don't know. I just feel like, why am I here? This is so awkward. Not to mention I'm alone. So you can imagine that the imposter syndrome was even grander than if you're with somebody that you can bond with it over.

• 7:44Mel Robbins?

  Ken, this sounds like a situation that absolutely every one of us can relate to. I know I can. And I'm sure as you're listening to her tell the story, you're feeling that same self doubt and the imposter syndrome creep up. But the fact is, you don't have to be around like people that are famous or people that are really big for you to feel this. I mean, think about the situations that happen every single day. You're on an email text chain. You're sitting in a meeting at work. You're surrounded by a group of people and you start to feel like everybody's smarter than you, or they've got more to contribute than you. And you feel yourself shrinking and doubting yourself. That's imposter syndrome intimidating you in your everyday life.

• 8:23Mel Robbins?

  And so this is so relatable. And I guess what I want to know is you're standing there, you're super intimidated. How the heck did you turn this around? I mean, did you actually talk to somebody? What did you do?

• 8:35Speaker 01

  No. So- Basically, I walk into this tent and I see all these people that I've been following and I put the pieces together and realize, oh my god, this artist pass on my wrist that says artist means that I have access to everything the performers do, which immediately makes me want to rip the thing off my arm and go stand in the audience because I'm not performing, I'm not on the industry side, I'm not a musician, I mean, I'm not a musician performing with anyone, I'm just here as Kendall. And, like I said before, doesn't really exist in this industry world yet. What do you mean by that? You don't exist? I don't, I don't have any, I don't have anything out to, I feel imposter syndrome

• 9:20Speaker 01

  talking about the fact that I don't have music out yet on Spotify. I hate talking about it. It makes me want to throw up everywhere. It makes me so embarrassed. Why? Because everybody else seems to have it figured out and have shit going on. I know that when I am not in an anxious state of mind, I remind myself, you know, I'm on my own timeline. I don't really want you to include that. No, but I think that's important because it's, it ties into what I was going to share with you. Please say that. Okay. I feel very embarrassed to share with my mom's millions and millions and millions of followers and listeners that I don't have anything out on any streaming platform yet. I don't have a social media presence. I don't have fans. I don't have

• 10:05Speaker 01

  anything. And I'm talking about being an imposter on this podcast when I've never been on tour. I don't have an album out. I don't have followers. I don't have fans. I feel like an imposter for being an imposter. I feel like I haven't been an imposter for long enough to talk about being an imposter. What does that even mean? This is just such a classic example of the syndrome, which is, I feel as though I haven't, this feeling is so new to me that it feels like I don't even have enough qualification to talk about it. Oh, so... Do you know what I mean? You don't feel like you're an authority on how to deal with imposter syndrome?

• 10:47Speaker 01

  Yeah. I feel like I don't, I don't feel like I had my first real experience this past weekend dealing with imposter syndrome. And...

• 10:56Speaker 01

  I definitely learned from it. I definitely gained a lot of insight from the experience, but it was my first experience and I feel unqualified to talk about it because it was my first experience.

• 11:07Mel Robbins?

  You're not really selling the episode.

• 11:10Speaker 01

  I'm trying to make a joke and you're like.

• 11:13Mel Robbins?

  Well, let me just say one thing.

• 11:15Speaker 01

  I do feel like an imposter right now because I feel like all of the other people in my industry have experienced this so much more than I have. And now I'm getting on here and getting on my soapbox and trying to tell everybody what it's like.

• 11:29Mel Robbins?

  You're not getting on your soapbox. This is why this conversation is so important. You're in it.

• 11:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:34Mel Robbins?

  Everybody listening feels like an imposter in some area of their life. Everybody can relate to that feeling like here I am, I am physically next to the people who are doing what I want to do. And it's so close, I can reach out and touch it. These people I've admired, I've streamed, I've watched them at award shows, they're standing right there, they're doing what I want to do. And the only thing that's keeping me from doing what I want to do is this feeling of not being ready, or this feeling that I'm not going to have what it takes, this feeling of being a nobody, this feeling like somebody's already done it. Is

• 12:17Mel Robbins?

  there room for me? And because you're in it, you are in a much better place to validate where everybody is, Ken. Like, somebody's already figured this shit out, coming in and being like, well, when you feel like an imposter, do this, this, and this. It's easy when you're through it. You're right up against it right now. That tension that you feel is important. I remember, God, this must have been like nine years ago, when I first got into the speaking business, Ken. I hadn't been paid to give a speech, and I get invited, as I'm just starting out, to go to this event in California and speak

• 13:02Mel Robbins?

  on a panel. I don't even know what the hell I was speaking about. All I know is there was this opening reception, okay? Sort of like what you're describing. An opening reception for the people who had been invited to speak at this thing. And so like you, I walk into this room. I have the lanyard around my neck. You've got the little artist thing around your wrist. And I walk in and I am like, oh, my God, there's Christy Turlington, the supermodel. Oh, my gosh, there's Gretchen Rubin, the author. Oh, my gosh, there's this person, there's that person. And I see all these famous people, all of whom are speaking. I felt like I had no business being there.

• 13:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, same.

• 13:43Mel Robbins?

  And all these people were talking and they all seemed to know each other. And there were a couple of instances where I'm like, okay, here we go. And I would walk up to a group of people and I'd introduce myself and they'd all turn. Oh, what do you do? And I didn't even know how to answer it. I had given one TEDx talk and nobody had heard of it yet. I didn't have a book. I didn't have anything. I felt like I had nothing. I didn't even know why I was there. And after I would introduce myself and people are like, oh, did you write a book? And I'm like, no, I'm just kind of speaking about motivation. Oh, okay. And then they'd turn.

• 14:26Mel Robbins?

  And something flipped in me because I felt like such a fraud being there. But something deeper was going on. And this is what was going on. I realized in that moment that I wanted to do something that mattered. I wanted to do the work or write a book or do something that when I walked into a room, it was like, oh, oh, you're the woman who wrote the five second rule? I freaking love that thing.

• 14:59Mel Robbins?

  And that discomfort that I felt, it sucked in the moment. I went back to my hotel room. I didn't go to the dinner. I cried. I stayed up all night. What am I gonna do? But there was something deep inside of me that was like, you don't want to feel this way. You have something that you want to contribute. And feeling like you're on the outside of something that you want to be a part of is a normal experience. See, I think imposter syndrome, that discomfort that you were feeling, that first few hours at the artist's tent at this music festival, I think that is your dreams going, we got work to do. Oh shit. Like, we got, like, you want to be in here?

• 15:44Mel Robbins?

  You want to be doing this? You got stuff to contribute? You gotta wake up. Like, you gotta start putting yourself out there. Like, this is a step on the path that's so important because you only feel imposter syndrome in situations that you care about. Because you care about whether or not you've got something to show for what you're doing.

• 16:04Speaker 01

  Well, like I said, I was alone and all of these very established, famous artists are walking by me and I'm literally drinking a White Claw alone. And it's not like I can be introducing myself to people and saying, oh, go check me out on Spotify. Go check me out on Instagram. It's like, hi, I'm Kendall. And then I disappear. To the point where someone literally came up to me and was like, are you okay? Like, I looked like I was not supposed to be there. That's how, like, the imposter syndrome had basically creeped onto my face. I was so uncomfortable and so just like embarrassed and just felt like, why am I here? I need to leave. I don't want to be here. I want to go home. I don't...

• 16:50Speaker 01

  I don't want to tell people I'm an artist. I don't feel like that at all right now. I don't feel like anyone's gonna give a shit about me, including myself. Like, but yeah, it was horrible. It was, it was really horrible, but I mean.

• 17:06Mel Robbins?

  What changed, though? Because this is where I want to go to. We can all, well, hold that thought. I want to hear a quick word from our sponsors. And when we come back, we're gonna go right to the moment where you flipped the switch, because you did. And you made it one of the best weekends of your life, and you made incredible friendships. And you came home a different person after those three days. And we're gonna talk about what changed when we come back.

• 17:42Mel Robbins?

  Welcome back. I'm Mel Robbins, and I'm sitting here with our daughter Kendall, who's 23. And she is pursuing her dream and goal of being a touring singer-songwriter. And we're talking about imposter syndrome. And so, Ken, I want to go back to the moment where you've been standing in the artist's tent at this music festival for the first five hours on day one. Somebody has come up to you and said, "Are you okay? Because you look so out of place." And you're alone, drinking a White Claw, surrounded by all these touring musicians that you admire.

• 18:17Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 18:18Mel Robbins?

  How did you? What did you do to turn this around? Because you turned it around, dude.

• 18:27Speaker 01

  Well, it definitely was not immediate. It continued for about a few more hours, but in that.

• 18:35Mel Robbins?

  Just tell me about it, yeah.

• 18:36Speaker 01

  In that tent, and I'm slightly tipsy now because I've had two White Claws.

• 18:42Speaker 01

  And I'm sitting alone. Let me just tell you, every single person in that tent was with another person, if not three or four. I probably look so weird, sitting alone. And I was just kind of thinking.

• 18:57Speaker 01

  You know, I'm here. I get to be around some of my biggest inspirations. I get to go backstage and be an arm's length from them while they absolutely murder it onstage. I get free food. I get free white clothes. Why the fuck wouldn't I enjoy this? You know, like, I'm just gonna enjoy this because,

• 19:22Speaker 01

  no, I'm not performing, although I wish that I was. No, I don't have a Grammy, although that is a dream of mine. No, I don't have music out on Spotify that I can tell my favorite artists that are here to listen to. No, I can't do any of that, but you know what? I can be grateful that I'm here. And I can lean into that gratitude and just have fun. So, once I exhaled and I was like, okay, I'm gonna enjoy myself. This has been god awful up until this point, so... Grateful for the god awful. There's, there's, I mean, why not? Why not have fun? You know?

• 20:00Speaker 01

  I'm either gonna continue to torture myself in front of my favorite artists, or I'm gonna have fun and put a smile on my face. So, I said, you know what? I'm really happy that I'm here. Let's start to have some fun. And as I'm sitting alone, drinking a water this time, I'm thinking about all of this advice that I've gotten over the past years. What are other things I can

• 20:20Speaker 01

  lean into while being here? And try and find some sense of belonging in a place that I feel I don't belong. And I think back to this piece of advice that one of my amazing mentors, Sean Holt, who is the Vice Dean at the Thorin School of Music at USC, gave to me. And he said, you know, because you're a beginner, Kendall, these rooms that you're gonna start to walk into and these experiences that you're gonna start to have, you can't be walking in there with some massive ego, thinking, you know, I know best, I know this. That's not the way to go about this. But instead, you should walk into those rooms with a learner's posture and lean into the gratitude that you have for learning all that you're going to learn. And he said, every room that you walk into, know in the back of your mind that you have something to give

• 21:05Speaker 01

  to the people in that room that they don't have. You might not even know you have to give, but there's a reason you're in that room and you're gonna give them something that they don't know they needed, just like they're gonna give you something you don't know you needed. Mic drop. Thank you, Sean. Can I just stop there? Yeah. I wish I had known that.

• 21:24Mel Robbins?

  When I walked into the room in Los Angeles, because I walked in there and I felt like, oh my God, these are people I admire, or they're famous, or they're known, or they're doing cool things. I'm not doing anything. I'm a nobody. I don't have anything yet. And yet, that's the important part, yet. It's not that you can't do it, it's that you haven't done it yet. But if I had been able to flip to a state of, I'm just so grateful to be here, and I am going to introduce myself to everybody, and I am going to learn as much as I can, and I'm going to soak things up, and I'm going to be like a beginner.

• 22:09Mel Robbins?

  You know, if you were in my shoes, what's one piece of advice you would have? Like, just soak it all up and in? And it would have flipped off the insecurity that imposter syndrome can overwhelm you with. Because when you get up in your head and you start going, I don't belong, and you become very intellectual about it, you isolate yourself. And you cut yourself off from both what you can get and gain from the room, and what you can give. Because every time you talk to somebody who is beginning at something you're really good at, their enthusiasm and passion always rubs off on you.

• 22:45Speaker 01

  Yeah. I just started to relax into it, and I started to meet people.

• 22:49Mel Robbins?

  How did you meet them?

• 22:50Speaker 01

  Well, the family connection that I had who invited me to the festival, had a few friends there, and he introduced me to those people who I really hit it off with, and we started talking. And it was the first time that I was talking to people. But it was also the first time that I was like, able to just own where I was at and say, I'm an artist, I'm a beginner, I don't have anything out, I'm just in my creative, curative space right now. I'm working on some stuff, I'm really excited about it. I'm not trying to rush the process. And I think saying that and just speaking that out into the universe was sort of a weight lifted. But just being able to meet people and tell them that I'm a beginner,

• 23:33Speaker 01

  and that I'm so excited, and that I'm so grateful to learn from them, and to be just surrounded by the greats, and all these people that I've just been so inspired by for the past few years, was enough, you know?

• 23:43Mel Robbins?

  What happened?

• 23:45Speaker 01

  Well, they were so nice and they welcomed me in and they took me under their wing and introduced me to a bunch of cool people and, and nobody was quick to judge me that I was a beginner. And I had a few people even say, you know, it's so inspiring being around you because we have to make ends meet by doing this and we pay our bills doing this because some days it gets long and it gets hard and we don't want to do it. It's so cool to be surrounded by someone that's just so fresh off and ready to go. And it reminds us all of the reason that we started, which is because we fell in love with it and like, we can feel that love coming off of you. And that was just so validating because they weren't complimenting my original music, but they were just complimenting my spirit and my ambition and my drive and my passion,

• 24:30Speaker 01

  which is like what I needed to be complimented on at this phase in my journey.

• 24:35Mel Robbins?

  It's actually more important than being complimented on the music.

• 24:38Speaker 01

  Yeah. And so I made a bunch of friends and I even got the chance to perform with some of the people at this late night performance. And after I performed, I had a bunch of people ask if they wanted to collaborate with me and write music with me and it was just really awesome. I think once I sort of owned where I'm at, which is a beginner, I'm not an imposter as a beginner, you know, because that's what I am.

• 25:08Mel Robbins?

  Wait, say that again.

• 25:12Speaker 01

  I'm not an imposter if I'm a beginner because that's what I am.

• 25:17Mel Robbins?

  Oh my God. Kendall, that's genius.

• 25:26Speaker 01

  Yeah. You can diffuse the imposter syndrome if you just accept where you're at. I felt like an imposter around all of my favorite artists because of what they have accomplished that I haven't yet, but if I just give myself the space to meet me where I'm at.

• 25:46Mel Robbins?

  Yeah.

• 25:48Speaker 01

  Then the imposter syndrome sort of disappears.

• 25:53Mel Robbins?

  You're not an imposter. You're just a beginner.

• 25:56Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 25:57Mel Robbins?

  And what I also love about those moments where you're new to something, you're in a new job. You start at a new school.

• 26:07Mel Robbins?

  You feel like an imposter when you move to a new neighborhood, when you try something new. And I think so many of us are so terrified of feeling like a beginner or feeling mediocre at something that we don't give ourselves permission to just be a beginner. Because we think people are going to like us more if we have it all figured out.

• 26:27Speaker 01

  No, of course not.

• 26:28Mel Robbins?

  And the truth is, nobody has it figured out completely.

• 26:30Speaker 01

  No.

• 26:30Mel Robbins?

  The people that you admire are tired of touring. And so the passion and the beginner's mindset infuses them with something.

• 26:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:39Mel Robbins?

  I have so many takeaways from this conversation. Number one, the next time that you're in a situation where you feel like you don't belong, or you get up in your head, recognize it and flip it to gratitude. Be grateful that you are here at this new school, or you're here in this new job, or you are here in a room with people that you admire. Adopt that learner's mindset and just absorb as much as you can. Another thing that you said that I think is brilliant is that as soon as you gave yourself grace to just be where you are and to say it out loud.

• 27:19Speaker 01

  Well, I have something to say about that.

• 27:21Mel Robbins?

  Okay.

• 27:22Speaker 01

  Another way to think about it, and this is another piece of advice that I got from Sean Holt, is that you become one of the most powerful people in the room when you beat everybody to your inconvenient truths.

• 27:35Mel Robbins?

  Whoa.

• 27:37Mel Robbins?

  I love that, and I don't even know what the heck it means. So let's take a quick break, hear a word from our sponsors. And when we come back, I want you to unpack this advice for all of us. Stay with us, everybody.

• 27:55Mel Robbins?

  Welcome back. I'm Mel Robbins. I'm here with our daughter Kendall and we have been talking about an experience that she had just this past weekend with imposter syndrome. And she had just shared this really incredible advice that helped her. It was advice she got from her mentor at USC, Sean Holt, about beating people to your inconvenient truths. Ken, can you tell us more about that?

• 28:16Speaker 01

  It means if you're a beginner and you don't have music out on Spotify, just say it. Just say, you know, I'm feeling pretty embarrassed and feeling a little bit out of place in this room.

• 28:30Mel Robbins?

  Love that.

• 28:31Speaker 01

  Instead of trying to pretend like you have it all figured out when you walk into this room, just beat everybody to your inconvenient truths. It's inconvenient that I don't have music out. It's inconvenient that I haven't gone on tour. It feels inconvenient that I don't have fans or a social media following. And so instead of pretending like I have it all figured out, I'm just going to be honest and I'm just going to be vulnerable because if you come from a place of vulnerability, you're definitely going to make connection.

• 28:59Mel Robbins?

  What happened the first time you said to somebody in that artist tent, "Well, I haven't released any music yet"?

• 29:10Speaker 01

  Well, let me talk about how it felt to say that.

• 29:12Mel Robbins?

  Yes.

• 29:12Speaker 01

  Because it was horrible.

• 29:14Mel Robbins?

  Okay, so say it.

• 29:15Speaker 01

  I mean, the first time that I kind of recognized that I was a beginner and was able to say it out loud was when I would be talking to people. And then, of course, the question comes, well, do you have any music out?

• 29:28Speaker 01

  And my jaw would lock and I somehow spit out, "No", and said, "I just graduated from school. I'm working on some music now. I'm trying to figure out who I am, what I want to sound like, what I want to say, and I'm not there yet. And I'm really excited for the process. But no, I don't have music out. I don't have an Instagram page. I don't have fans. I don't have any of it. I don't have TikTok. I don't have it." And it's definitely scary being around everybody here that not only has that, but has gone around the country showing people. But-

• 30:08Speaker 01

  I'm a beginner and I'm excited and I'm so happy that I get to be here around all of you, who are people that I've looked up to for however long. And yeah, I'm just really excited. And you know, I was met with so much, "Oh, my gosh, that's awesome. You should take your time. You're so young. You have all the time in the world." Just things that I've been told for so long. But hearing it from these people that I've been so inspired by for so long was so validating.

• 30:34Speaker 01

  It's like, you have to be bad at something before you're good at it. And people are so afraid of being not so great at something that they don't even try.

• 30:44Mel Robbins?

  Yeah. And they're embarrassed to admit that they're at the beginning of trying.

• 30:49Speaker 01

  Yeah. And also, every single person in that tent has probably had an experience like mine.

• 30:55Mel Robbins?

  Of course. You know what I also find interesting is that you call yourself a beginner, but you just graduated from the top program in the world for pop music at USC Thornton, studying with Grammy Award-winning artists and collaborating with plenty of musicians. You're not exactly a beginner, but you're a beginner on the journey of the touring artist world. And so I think that there are levels to that beginner mindset. Because when I started this podcast, I was not a beginner when it comes to audio.

• 31:38Mel Robbins?

  I hosted a radio show in 2008 and won awards for it. And I've published all these audiobooks with Audible. But I felt like a beginner that had never done a podcast.

• 31:53Speaker 01

  Yeah. No, I'm not a beginner singer. I am a beginner songwriter. I am a beginner in an artist tent. I am a beginner talking to my favorite artists. I am a beginner waiting in line behind my favorite musicians. Like, there are so many things that I have.

• 32:13Speaker 01

  It all ties back into the, there's something to learn and there's something to give. I think if you're only on I Have Something To Give, you're gonna... Get too caught up in your own world and you're not going to be able to feel into the gratitude and the service and you're going to be too like obsessed with yourself.

• 32:27Mel Robbins?

  What do I give?

• 32:27Speaker 01

  What do I give? What do I give? It's all about me. It's all about me and it's not. And then if you get into the what do I have to learn? What do I have to learn? What do I have to learn? You're just going to dumb yourself down so much that you don't even give yourself the opportunity to express what you do have to give. And I definitely have not figured it out, although it it sort of maybe on this podcast sounds like I have, but the balance thing, I it's an everyday practice.

• 32:51Mel Robbins?

  Well, one thing I want to point out, based on what you told me, is that the first thing that you gave is your sense of humor.

• 32:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:57Mel Robbins?

  It had nothing to do with music. You started cracking jokes with somebody that you were introduced to that is highly regarded. And it was your humor and your passion and your beginner mindset that that broke the ice.

• 33:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:14Mel Robbins?

  And had you make this incredible connection with somebody who will probably be part of your career moving forward.

• 33:21Speaker 01

  Another way that I think about imposter syndrome is I think about the fact that I'm a nobody. That's kind of that's kind of what I was feeling. I was literally texting my friends who I graduated with at USC, who are incredible musicians and have music out and are just my best friends. And I was texting them being like, I'm a nobody. Why am I here? So and so just walked by. I'm drinking alone. Help me. And they were all responding like, you're Kendall effing Robbins. You're not a nobody. Like, go be you. Go have fun. You're supposed to be there. Love you guys. You know who you are. And I think in in saying like, I'm a nobody. The only reason that I was thinking everybody around me was were somebodies is because

• 34:05Speaker 01

  of the accolades and the accomplishments that they've achieved.

• 34:08Mel Robbins?

  And the followings.

• 34:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, and the followings. But like, the fans, at least in my opinion, the fans, the awards, the accolades, the attention that all of the people I was surrounded by have are not who they are.

• 34:21Mel Robbins?

  Hmm.

• 34:23Speaker 01

  As I was thinking about this, I was going, you know, so and so is not her Grammy. She's her.

• 34:30Mel Robbins?

  Mm hmm.

• 34:32Speaker 01

  I don't have music out right now, but I'm still me and I can still be me. And at the end of the day, we're all kind of nobodies because.

• 34:44Speaker 01

  People think we're somebodies when we have stuff to show, but without that stuff, we're just us. The beauty of life, we're all just us.

• 34:52Mel Robbins?

  You know, what's interesting is that you just said, "People think you're somebody because you have some, some thing to show for yourself." But we're all just nobodies because there is something that is special about you that nobody else has.

• 35:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's a great way of thinking about it. And I think the word "nobody" is, it's so negative and people think, "Oh, I'm invisible." But like, we're all kind of just doing our own thing because I don't have music out, because I don't have these awards, because I don't have this following that everyone around me has. I'm like, "You know what? All I can do is just be me." And that's kind of all that I'm gonna do throughout my career. So I'm just gonna do that right now. Because I hope that even when I do have those accolades and when I do have those fans, I can still be me. And I'm sure that all these people around me, at some capacity, are just trying to be themselves too. I learned, and I hope you guys can learn, that in just being me, the things that I started to give had nothing to do with my music

• 35:53Speaker 01

  and nothing to do with my voice and nothing to do with anything that I thought it would have to do with. The things that you are gonna give in these rooms that you walk into where you feel like an imposter will likely have nothing to do with that actual career or the skillset you mastered in college to get the job that you got. It's probably gonna have to do with your humanity or some experience you had that's relatable or your sense of humor or the fact that you're passionate about sewing. I don't know, like, who knows what it's gonna be? But I think what I learned this past weekend is that people felt a magnetic pull towards me because of my humor. And inappropriate jokes

• 36:37Speaker 01

  that really, I guess, brought some laughter to the rooms that I was walking into. And in giving people comedic relief and giving people laughter,

• 36:49Speaker 01

  that's what they learned from me. And in turn, I started learning from them and the doors all opened.

• 36:54Mel Robbins?

  Yep.

• 36:54Speaker 01

  And like, lean into you in those rooms and just be you. And recognize you're a beginner. Beat people to your inconvenient truths.

• 37:02Mel Robbins?

  By telling them.

• 37:03Speaker 01

  By telling them. Just be you. And I think if you're you...

• 37:09Speaker 01

  You're gonna give and you will also receive. If I was trying to be somebody that had all these awards or had a TikTok following or whatever it may be, I wouldn't be Kendall.

• 37:19Mel Robbins?

  Right.

• 37:21Speaker 01

  And I was Kendall and she had a great weekend. I made a bunch of friends. I ate good food. I saw old friends. I made new friends.

• 37:29Mel Robbins?

  One of the things that will beat imposter syndrome is when you start to also tell yourself that there's a reason I'm here.

• 37:39Speaker 01

  We didn't talk about this enough, I don't think.

• 37:41Mel Robbins?

  Okay, well, there's a reason why I'm here. You don't have to be like, I deserve to be in this room.

• 37:50Mel Robbins?

  Grab faith. You're in the room for a reason and you might not know why, but have faith that there is a reason for you to be in that room. There's something for you to learn. There's something for you to give. And that's why you're there.

• 38:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:08Mel Robbins?

  When you tell yourself that you have faith that there's a reason why you're sitting in this room, there's a reason why you're near these people. There's a reason why you're at this school. And if you can't muster up the belief that you deserve to be, anchor yourself in that there's something for you to learn. There's a lesson. There's something for you to discover about yourself. Because when I look back at my experience nine years ago and I was in that room with all those people I admired, all these famous people, and I felt so unworthy.

• 38:41Mel Robbins?

  There was a reason I was supposed to be there. That discomfort that I felt, I don't want to feel like this in rooms like this. I want to feel like I'm somebody who's contributed something that's important. That's what started to motivate me. That's what got me to accept the fact that I really wanted to be a person that had published a book. I showed up in rooms for the next two, three years, Ken, still feeling like an imposter.

• 39:12Speaker 01

  Oh, I'm sure it never goes away.

• 39:13Mel Robbins?

  There are new levels to it. When I met Alex Cooper and was on her show, Call Her Daddy, and I was in awe of her, the number one female ranked podcaster in the world, and I hadn't even launched my podcast yet. You know what? I just absorbed everything I could learn from her and I learned a lot. She's amazing. So there are going to be moments where you feel that because you're going to be a beginner again. But if you really embrace what Ken and I are sharing with you, you don't have to destroy yourself. You can immediately catch yourself and flip it into a learning opportunity and a gratitude moment and reminding yourself that, wow, I have faith that I'm

• 39:55Mel Robbins?

  here right now because there is something I'm meant to learn by doing this right now. So I'm not going to get it right. I'm not going to be perfect. I'm going to be me and I'm going to learn. And that has so helped me. And I think it'll help you listening right now.

• 40:09Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I think the thing you also said about the fact that imposter syndrome, I think, comes from a place of, well, I really want this to feel like me. The only reason that you're feeling that, that imposter syndrome, is because you want to not feel like an imposter in those rooms. You want to be a badass in all those rooms.

• 40:27Mel Robbins?

  Yes, this is a good thing.

• 40:28Speaker 01

  It's a good thing. It's kind of like your mental compass going like, yeah, this is what you want. It's a reminder. There's a work to do. I mean, I don't feel imposter syndrome when I go to like a financial convention because I don't know anything about that.

• 40:41Mel Robbins?

  And I don't want to.

• 40:42Speaker 01

  And I don't have a passion to. I don't desire to. I'm not like, oh, my God, I'm never going to make it in this. I'm like, I don't want to be here. I don't want to be in this room. I want to be in a different room. But it's the rooms that you want to be in that you're like, oh, fuck, I don't know if I'm supposed to be here. I don't, it tests everything. It makes you look in the mirror. It kind of like shines a light on the things you don't know about what you're so obsessed with and makes you want them.

• 41:07Mel Robbins?

  And that scares the shit out of you.

• 41:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's true. I think it comes back to the idea that some days you're going to be a beginner in the room. Some days you're going to be the expert. If you find yourself in that room, or that tent, or backstage, or in that workout class, wherever you are, and you start to feel that creeping up, I shouldn't be here, I don't belong here, I don't know what to do, I don't know what to say, just trust that you're supposed to be there and that there's a reason that you're there. And take on your learner's posture. If you feel like you don't know anything and everybody else does, then just get really grateful and really excited to learn from the other people and don't leave the room.

• 41:54Mel Robbins?

  Don't leave that room. Boom.

• 41:59Speaker 01

  Cheers.

• 42:00Mel Robbins?

  Cheers.

• 42:02Mel Robbins?

  And in case no one else tells you, Kendall and I are gonna tell you.

• 42:08Mel Robbins?

  We love you.

• 42:09Speaker 01

  We love you.

• 42:10Mel Robbins?

  And I believe in your ability to create a life that you want and to do the work. Don't leave the room. Talk to you in a few days.

• 42:29Speaker 01

  Hold, hold the phone. That would be

• 42:33Speaker 01

  the loudest ice machine you've ever heard.

• 42:35Mel Robbins?

  Okay, there it goes.

• 42:36Speaker 01

  Chris? Dad, we're recording!

• 42:42Speaker 01

  I don't wanna like say like, Chris? Dad! We're filming and recording.

• 42:51Mel Robbins?

  So?

• 42:53Speaker 01

  So you can't be here.

• 42:54Mel Robbins?

  I gotta be quiet.

• 42:58Speaker 01

  Okay, be quiet, because I just had a moment and you ruined it. Anyway. Fuck, I had a really good superpower. No, no, no, no, no. We were thinking about, we were talking, what else were we talking about? Imposter syndrome, nobodies? Oh, oh, oh. Hang on, Mom. Oh, God.

• 43:15Mel Robbins?

  No, I'm just looking to make sure I had hit record.

• 43:23Mel Robbins?

  Oh, and one more thing. And no, this is not a blooper. This is the legal language. You know what the lawyers write and what I need to read to you. This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. I'm just your friend. I am not a licensed therapist and this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional. Got it? Good. I'll see you in the next episode.