Ep. 940: Janis's Backcountry Mule Deer | 12 in '26

Janis answers YouTube listener-submitted questions and comments from his 2026 high country mule deer hunt. He covers gear used, tactics, training, preparation and lots more in this companion podcast to the Mountain Muley Honey Hole 12 in '26 film. Watch the film now on MeatEater's YouTube channel. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAnhO_XBZKc Presented by Can-Am: maker of the best ATVs, SxS, and Utility Vehicles www.can-am.brp.com http://www.can-am.brp.com Connect with MeatEater on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/meateater, Facebook https://www.facebook.com/StevenRinellaMeatEater/, Twitter https://twitter.com/MeatEaterTV?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor, YouTube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAaa0mleeU128Ad5iM1RFIg, and YouTube Clips https://www.youtube.com/@MeatEaterClips Subscribe to MeatEater Podcast Network on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@MeatEaterPodcastNetwork See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.

• 0:04Speaker 01

  If you're a custodial supervisor at a local high school, you know that cleanliness is key. And that the best place to get cleaning supplies is from Grainger. Grainger helps you stay fully stocked on the products you trust. From paper towels and disinfectants to floor scrubbers. Plus, you can rely on Grainger for easy reordering, so you never run out of what you need. Call 1-800-GRAINGER, click Grainger.com, or just stop by. Grainger, for the ones who get it done.

• 0:34Speaker 02

  Breathe in and reset with Lincoln Rejuvenate. An available multi-sensory feature in the 2027 Lincoln Navigator SUV. Experience the luxurious massage, visuals, and sense to help you relax in the driver's seat. It's your time for a reset. Visit Lincoln.com to learn more. Lincoln Rejuvenate does not operate unless the vehicle is in park. When the vehicle is off, or if any door is open, do not use the feature in a closed garage or in other enclosed areas. See owner's manual for important operating instructions. Lincoln and Navigator trademarks of Ford or its affiliates. All rights reserved.

• 1:05Speaker 03

  Football season is here. And if you're looking for the boldest bourbon on the roster, look no further than Wild Turkey Bourbon. Kentucky born with 100 years of know-how. Wild Turkey Bourbon never compromises. It's aged longer, never watered down. So enjoy a bourbon that's filled with character and bold flavor this football season. Wild Turkey. Go bold, go home. Copyright 2026 Campari America, New York, New York. Never compromise. Drink responsibly.

• 1:36Speaker 04

  So crazy, I mean, just dead asleep one second, and then all of a sudden, the doe and that buck just up on their feet, like looking over here, I don't know. Might be a coyote over here, maybe it's more deer coming over here. So I can't see around the frame.

• 1:54Speaker 04

  I do those, and I'm like down. I may have seen like too much, but I think she's coming.

• 2:06Speaker 04

  Go get him, so.

• 2:09Speaker 04

  Beautiful place to spend the day.

• 2:15Speaker 05

  What you just heard were my post-shot thoughts after sitting on a buck for over two hours. It seemed like five hours, but maybe it was just too. Welcome to the 12 and 26 Podcast. This is a companion show to our 12 and 26 films rolling out this year. Now, if you're just tuning into this now and haven't already seen the new film, which by the way, I hate calling them films. There's still episodes to me. It is out on the Meat Eater channel. Please hop over there and watch it and smash the old like and subscribe buttons. There's still more 12 and 26 films coming, so please keep checking back on the Meat Eater YouTube channel.

• 2:59Speaker 05

  Today, I'm here with Garrett Long and Phil the Engineer to address your questions about my mule deer hunt. Thank you all for writing in, posting questions on YouTube and on social media. We've curated a handful of the most compelling audience questions. I'm going to do my best to answer them here now. This episode in particular is centered around a solo backcountry mule deer hunt, kinda solo. I didn't film it myself, so I had Max Barter there with me, which was a lot of fun. But it was in the Western United States. The hunt was remote, incredibly demanding physically. Really tested my skills and patience, kind of.

• 3:44Speaker 05

  It wasn't an easy hunt, but it wasn't the hardest hunt I've been on either. But again, if you haven't watched it, go check it out now, and all of this will make a lot more sense. This time around, let's start with some general comments before getting into the actual questions. Good or bad? We will start with a few more, few of the more critical comments, and then move on to what folks seem to enjoy about the film. And then we'll get into some actual questions from all of you. So, number one, should I read out the guy's handle or the person's handle?

• 4:19Speaker 06

  You can if you want to. I don't think they're trying to stay out of it. It's just a handle.

• 4:24Speaker 05

  Kurt Thomason4620 wrote, "Latvian eagle kidded up like he's a Formula One hunter. Guess I'm priced out of this sport too."

• 4:38Speaker 05

  I wish I could remember exactly what my kit was. I didn't feel like it was too overboard. I feel like I had socks, undies, a pair of pants, probably a base layer up top. My undies kind of is my bottom base layer. And then usually like a second layer. And I think it's my second layer, I was wearing the suppressor, the soft shell jacket. And then I probably just had a big puffy over that because the weather was really nice. I didn't carry any rain gear.

• 5:10Speaker 05

  So I don't know, Formula One, I guess that means is like just really, really expensive. I mean, that big down puffy jacket is an expensive jacket, but I think the rest of that kit is probably like 500 bucks.

• 5:24Speaker 07

  I don't know, man. Formula One drivers are pretty sharp, like.

• 5:28Speaker 05

  Sharp looking?

• 5:29Speaker 07

  Yeah, you know?

• 5:31Speaker 05

  I didn't have my hair all, I probably didn't get a haircut like a Formula One guy before this hunt. But I always tell everybody, I try to remind people on the old Instagram, that one, you should just get off Instagram and go out hunting. And if like buying first light gear or any other hunting gear is keeping you from hunting because of the price, because you need money for gas, or you just need money for food, so that you can, you know, just have time to go hunting,

• 6:04Speaker 05

  don't buy the stuff. You don't need it. I mean, literally all you need is some kind of a weapon to go hunting. You don't even need camo. You can, people killed stuff in blue jeans and flannels for a lot of years before we all got super hyped on camo.

• 6:21Speaker 05

  So, yeah, man, if you're in a spot where you can't do the first light thing, then yeah, just you can literally wear the clothes that you probably went to work with.

• 6:32Speaker 07

  Get out there.

• 6:33Speaker 05

  And just get out there and, and make it happen.

• 6:38Speaker 05

  Let's see. @JackTackle57 wrote, he must be an angler, "Great hunt. Might I suggest a larger caliber rifle? Clearly, the wind is pushing your bullet. At that elevation and those conditions, a heavy bullet over 160 grains will buck the wind a lot better. It's okay to be overgunned in the Rocky Mountains, especially in, by the way, you are a great shooter." Well, thanks, Jack. It's like a compliment sandwich, as Steve likes to say, you know?

• 7:13Speaker 05

  He's not wrong. A heavier bullet, which I think actually in the 65s, a buddy of mine who's a big time shooter was telling me about like a 175 maybe? Kind of a custom bullet that he got from somewhere. He says over in Sweden, that's all they shoot are like the 175s.

• 7:34Speaker 07

  Out of the 65?

• 7:35Speaker 05

  Out of the 65s, you know? Which they've been shooting moose over there with 65s for well over 100 years.

• 7:45Speaker 05

  But yeah, he's not wrong. Bigger bullet would have been less affected by the wind in that condition. And yeah, I guess my response, why I would probably still carry the gun I was carrying and probably stick with my 160 grain bullets is that it's like, man, you do a little bit of shooting, you do a lot of carrying. So having that short action and just in, just a light setup in that rifle was really nice. Usually, once you go to those heavier bullets, you're going to be in a long action Magnum. And I don't know, I guess you could just shoot 308 and have a heavier bullet.

• 8:27Speaker 07

  Well, yeah, but that wouldn't have gone through the wind as good as your PRC either.

• 8:31Speaker 05

  You don't?

• 8:32Speaker 07

  No, like I think that.

• 8:33Speaker 05

  180 grainer out of a 308?

• 8:36Speaker 07

  Well, I don't know what the BCs are of a 308 with a 180 grainer. It's going to be slow.

• 8:42Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 8:43Speaker 07

  Right? But weight is only part of the equation, right? So BC is really just how it flies through the wind, right? And 65 PRC has been built around very high BC bolts. I don't know what you were shooting, 140s, 156s, do you, you know?

• 8:58Speaker 05

  They're probably the 140 AccuBonds.

• 9:00Speaker 07

  Right, right. Yeah, so that's, you know, arguably a little bit light for that caliber. But I think it's easy to say like, well, heavier is better. But man, I can tell you, generally speaking, out of a 308, your wind holds compared to a 65 PRC are dramatically more.

• 9:16Speaker 05

  Okay, so I'd had to have a, probably a 30 caliber Magnum.

• 9:20Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 9:21Speaker 05

  To really make a difference.

• 9:22Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 9:22Speaker 05

  And then you gotta carry that sucker around for a week.

• 9:25Speaker 07

  Right.

• 9:25Speaker 05

  Till you get to make a couple of shots, so. Yep, you know, the other answer is that like, you know, you just, and again, I really thought that wind was pretty much coming straight in my face and I wasn't going to get that drift.

• 9:41Speaker 05

  But I could have gotten closer, you know, where it, it wouldn't have, wouldn't have mattered as much. Okay, @TrashHunt, interesting handle. He says, "Meat Eater saying spot burning is a thing, lol." Laugh out loud, is that what that stands for?

• 10:02Speaker 06

  Definitely. We can roll this short clip here.

• 10:04Speaker 05

  The spot burning thing is real. I'm just going to try not to do it. I'm backpacking in. Limiting factor is batteries for cameras, so about three, maybe four nights is what we can do. It's chilly, little bit of snow on the ground, mid-October, pretty excited.

• 10:20Speaker 05

  Yep.

• 10:25Speaker 05

  Yeah, it's a thing and we discuss it internally a lot here in Meat Eater. You know, I don't, I try to protect my private land in Wisconsin. It's because I don't need visitors there and the people that I hunt there with like to go there and just get away and have peace and quiet. Um, so that's kind of why I don't really talk about the county I'm in in Wisconsin when we go there. Um, but in this case where it's, uh, you know, a unit or even a state, you know, all the locals that are mostly hunting there, not somewhere else, you know, they like to, they like to keep their spots to themselves and I can't blame them for that. So

• 11:05Speaker 05

  we've decided to talk less about, you know, e- even, even to the extent of saying not the state where we're at. Um, cause honestly, it's just not that important, right? It's, uh, I think for the viewer, the adventure and the content that they watch, it's not going to be any less engaging if they don't know. Uh, the, which boundaries we are hunting within.

• 11:30Speaker 07

  Yeah, man, I'm going to challenge that a little bit. I think, uh, you know, we have found, you, you like, imagine you draw a tag in Colorado.

• 11:40Speaker 05

  Mm hmm.

• 11:41Speaker 07

  Um, and you want to look up elk hunting in Colorado. What do you type in? Right? Colorado elk hunting.

• 11:49Speaker 05

  Mm hmm.

• 11:50Speaker 07

  I, I, I do think that there's a subset of the audience that, you know, and a lot of the, the questions were around like, you know, where they think you might've been. Um, I think there's, there's a, a, a large subset of the audience that genuinely does want to know general state uh, of where you're at.

• 12:10Speaker 05

  A large subset, like more than 25%?

• 12:15Speaker 07

  Yeah, I think that mostly the people that don't want to know where you're at are the people living in that state.

• 12:22Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 12:23Speaker 07

  You know, so it's, it's a balance for us of, of like being approachable and everything like that and, and, uh, show an opportunity, but uh, yeah.

• 12:32Speaker 05

  I think that we, we have, we have historical evidence that it, we, we have done it to places in the past.

• 12:41Speaker 07

  Mm hmm.

• 12:41Speaker 05

  The Meat Eater Show. Um, I won't mention which ones, but like I've heard enough where they're like, oh yeah, after you aired that one, things changed around here. You know, took more points to draw my unit or there are more hunting leases all of a sudden in this area. Um, people never knew that we had this opportunity here. And of course we're like, oh man, that's a bummer. Cause they're like, that's what we're interested in, right? Are these sort of like off the wall?

• 13:09Speaker 07

  Yep.

• 13:09Speaker 05

  Opportunities that are neat that you haven't heard about. Like we want to go experience them. We want to share them with the, with the viewers. But again, for the locals living there, that, uh, that spotlight's not good.

• 13:21Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 13:22Speaker 05

  So.

• 13:23Speaker 07

  It's a balance, man.

• 13:24Speaker 05

  Yep. It, it's a thing. We're aware of it. Um,

• 13:29Speaker 05

  we're constantly trying to figure out how to do it right. Uh, let's see.

• 13:37Speaker 05

  Flip side. Oh, okay. More comments. Robert Watson dash N six Z wrote, absolutely respect the accountability and humility at the end when he realized his point of impact wasn't where he thought it was due to the fall on the mountain. Other hunting content creators would have cut that part out and attributed the less than ideal shots to the fall. This is why I'm consistently drawn to Meat Eater over others. Side note, how he was able to find that super secret backcountry roadless area in Texas is amazing. Thanks, Robert. It took a lot of digging on the old Onyx, but found it.

• 14:19Speaker 05

  Um, yeah, thanks. So thanks overall, I guess for the nice, uh, nice, nice words there. Um, yeah, I just feel like it's for me. Like the, the whatever, the humility and all that is not what I was thinking about, including the checking the rifle zero. It's more like, oh, this is what I'm going to do anyways, when I get home. Because I have to, because my kid's probably going to shoot that rifle a week later at a deer and I need to make sure that it's on. And so it's kind of like, I'm going to do it. I then want to film it and include it. So that people just see like more of the process, you know, sometimes it's so easy to gloss over that or like,

• 15:04Speaker 05

  you know, the things that happen around camp, you know, between the times that you're actually out chasing elk, whether it's cookings, you know, how you're sleeping, you know, whatever it is. Um, it's just, it's just kind of, I don't know, it adds to it, right? When

• 15:18Speaker 07

  Yep.

• 15:19Speaker 05

  you, you see more, more of it. Uh, Dalton Unguided, nice. Hardcore. Cold October, elk and deer season cross. Awesome country that looks like it would hold giant deer. Thirty doe to one buck ratio reeks of blank state. Ha ha. Uh, so yeah, Dalton just wanted to try to figure out what state I was hunting in.

• 15:51Speaker 07

  Most of the questions were about what.

• 15:53Speaker 05

  There's a lot of that. Yeah. I didn't look. Try not to, unless I have to. What we've been talking about doing is making a, Phil, we really have to do this. Garrett Long is like our head of con, one, what is your title again now? You're not head of content. You're the VP of.

• 16:09Speaker 07

  SVP of content.

• 16:10Speaker 05

  SVP of.

• 16:11Speaker 07

  Which only matters when the chief of content isn't in the room.

• 16:15Speaker 05

  Yeah, but like, I feel like, I, people are nice to me. I appreciate it. But like Randall, they really get after him in the comments. Like, don't say nice things. And Randall and I have been thinking it'd be fun just to find all of the worst comments and read them and then like talk smack about them. I think that would be a lot of fun.

• 16:36Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 16:36Speaker 05

  See Phil, you're already laughing.

• 16:37Speaker 06

  I mean, it would be a very fun video, but it would also encourage people to comment on things in bad faith, just trying to get, trying to get selected for this.

• 16:46Speaker 05

  That's true. Well, we won't tell them that we're doing it. So just like the people that are trolls already, they would be the ones whose comments we would read.

• 16:53Speaker 06

  Yeah. Yeah. And, and we would, we would dox the commoners and then make fun of them and their lives and then, and their appearance of, of course as well, right?

• 17:00Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 17:01Speaker 06

  Yes. Okay.

• 17:01Speaker 05

  Yeah. Okay. Yep. All right. So that's the night. That's all for the just straight up comments. Appreciate it. Um, we appreciate you guys watching and, and interacting. It, it's great. Um, so with that, uh, let's in, get into some of the more direct questions from the audience. Garrett, what you got?

• 17:24Speaker 07

  Uh, yeah, man, we, so there was actually a lot of questions just about gear in general. Uh, Blaine Cypher's three, four, zero, six. Which it's hard to imagine there's that many Blaine Cypher's. Uh, but, uh, he asked, what's the rifle setup? Scope, caliber, silencer? Um, are there any just highlights you want to hit there? A litany of questions throughout the comments about what caliber and, and, and gun and all that you're using?

• 17:51Speaker 05

  And that's one of those things where I should have just addressed it in the episode because people always, always wonder. And, uh, and, uh, I'm pulling up the scope so that I don't mess up any of the numbers.

• 18:06Speaker 05

  Um, scope wise is the Sig Whiskey six, three to 18 by 44.

• 18:16Speaker 05

  First focal plane. Um,

• 18:23Speaker 05

  rangefinder, probably one of the most important parts of that whole thing. Um, because now with like the, you know, BDX app, we do enough shooting of these rifles. We true them, range them. What's the word I'm looking for? Not true them, but, uh, when you kind of check and make sure that the ballistics of the rangefinder is giving you is actually it. True them. All right. It is true. Um, but man, it's so slick. When you can just range something at 400 yards, which I think is roughly what that shot was. And then it says it right to you in the rangefinder like, yeah, you need to go up, uh, 2.5 or 3.0, whatever it was.

• 19:07Speaker 05

  Um, just gives you a lot of confidence in making that shot and, and knowing that you're going to hold that on and it's going to hit pretty much dead on. As long as you, you know, execute a nice shot. But, uh, that was the, uh, Sig Cross, uh, Sawtooth, right? In a, in a PR, in a six, five PRC. I did have a, I guess like semi-custom barrel put on there. It was, it's a short 18 inch, um,

• 19:36Speaker 05

  uh, carbon fiber from, uh, Proof.

• 19:39Speaker 07

  Mm hmm.

• 19:40Speaker 05

  And, um, you know, the shortness of the barrel, it definitely takes away, uh, from the velocity, but man, does it make it easy to run a suppressor on there? And man, I just love shooting with the pris, yeah. I love shooting with a suppressor these days. Um, so I give up a little bit of, uh, velocity to, uh, you know, to be able to run it quiet and reduce that recoil a bunch. Um, so it's a very nice, you know, easy, compact rifle to pack around. Um, uh, what else?

• 20:16Speaker 07

  Well, on the, on the, you never actually said what rangefinder you had.

• 20:20Speaker 05

  Oh, just the, I believe it's the Kilo eight.

• 20:23Speaker 07

  Oh, the eight K. Yeah.

• 20:24Speaker 05

  Eight K. Yeah. Um, and then the Meat Eater, uh, suppressor that's, uh, built by, uh, silencer central. Um, nice, you know, compact. How long is that thing? Six inches?

• 20:42Speaker 07

  Hmm.

• 20:42Speaker 05

  Right under six. It's like five and three quarters, something like that. Um, does the trick, especially for that smaller caliber. It's a, you know, seems like it's the, the perfect combo. And then like I said earlier, 140 grain Nosler Acubond, uh, loaded, uh, Sig loads those up. Um, yeah, I can't complain like that. All those Sig Crosses shoot inch or better, uh, for me, just with, with those factory ammo from Sig. Um, and what's even more important, I think at times is that, uh, the deviation of the, uh, velocities.

• 21:22Speaker 05

  It's like, you know more about this than I do, but I feel like we find a lot of times with the Sig ammo, it's been like less than 10 feet a second. And you're telling me, I think at one point that like average for a lot of factory ammo is going to be more like 20 to 30 feet per second.

• 21:39Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 21:40Speaker 05

  And that like folks, like at 400 yards, it makes a big difference on your point of impact when, you know, your bullet's not going the same speed as the last bullet you shot for the next bullet you're going to shoot.

• 21:54Speaker 05

  Um, so yeah, that's pretty much it for the rifle setup.

• 22:00Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 22:01Speaker 05

  Galiber silencer.

• 22:02Speaker 07

  And, and I think on that, so that another question we got um by at 306 Vic Z K O five. Uh, he asked about it seems that you're a fan of, of silencers um on your high country hunts. And he's just curious for your reasoning. Says he has speculation, but um he'd appreciate you to outline kind of why you like to use them.

• 22:28Speaker 05

  Hmm. Man, I like them on any kind of hunt.

• 22:33Speaker 05

  High country, low country, back country, front country. Uh, man, you just don't have to take that extra step of, uh, you know, throwing in ear protection. And it's kind of got built in, um, you know, recoil suppression. Um, you know, it's not quite as much as a break. But golly, I don't ever want to shoot a gun with a brake on it ever if I don't have to. Um, I just got my hearing tested again recently, uh, because we got some new hearing protection. And so when you go in to get the molds, they also do some testing. And then my left ear is so bad that they're actually, they're starting the conversation of, of putting in a hearing aid in my left ear.

• 23:17Speaker 05

  As a right-handed shooter, that's the ear that is, you know, kind of pointed towards the muzzle more. And, uh, I feel like for the last 10 to, you know, definitely 15, maybe even come on 20 years. Like I've been pretty good about like always at the range. Um, you know, and even having and just a pair of those, a lot of times I wear those Howard light. Uh, it's like a neck band that has the two foamies on it and just can stick those in real fast when I need to take a shot. But all that being said, man, I did enough damage as a youngster that, uh, I'm looking at a hearing aid. Um, so. Yeah, I don't know. I just don't see a reason not to. I mean, they're so light these days.

• 24:00Speaker 05

  Um, I think carrying that extra little bit of weight is, is totally worthwhile.

• 24:06Speaker 07

  Yeah, man, I'm 35 and, uh, they say I need a hearing aid in my left ear.

• 24:10Speaker 05

  There you go.

• 24:11Speaker 07

  So either put, put on muffs or get a suppressor.

• 24:17Speaker 07

  Um, all right, man, shifting gears a little bit. Um, another question we got wrote in is, his name is Garrett, actually. So he's got to be a pretty smart dude. Uh, he asked, when hunting for mule deer, what are some of the best tips for e-scouting?

• 24:32Speaker 05

  Hmm. Good question.

• 24:37Speaker 05

  Um.

• 24:40Speaker 05

  I think like all, any, any animal, you know, they need water, food, cover.

• 24:47Speaker 05

  So even with mule deer, you gotta be looking for that. Uh, I think defining out, you know, you can always call the biologist or the warden and find out sort of what elevation these deer like to hang at. Um, and whatever unit you're hunting, uh, depending on the time of year. And then go to the, to the e-map and, uh, you know, find those elevations and find country that looks good. Um, I mean, for me, for mule deer hunting, I haven't done too much desert mule deer hunting. It's mostly been, I don't know. I mean, we, we still live, we live in the western high country, you know, air and desert, but, um.

• 25:31Speaker 05

  Find the feed, I guess. And with e-scouting, you know, you're going to have to find the aspect, meaning like which direction is the hill pointing to find the feed that the deer need. Um.

• 25:44Speaker 05

  Yeah. Cover next to food with water nearby. Um, trying to think what else in particular. Um. You know, spots where too many people can't get to too easily. I think that's a good, uh, tip for hunt, hunting mule deer. But honestly, it's like this unit that I was in, there wasn't a lot of country that didn't have some deer. Um, you know, some a little bit less than others. Uh, but I think that, man, you just kind of had to put your boots on the ground and go and look at it. Um, yeah, sorry, I don't have too much more for that.

• 26:26Speaker 05

  Uh, but yeah, I found zones that just didn't have too many roads, didn't have too many trails. Um. And, and you know, places where the deer can feed and not get messed with.

• 26:42Speaker 07

  Um, yeah, it, it reminds me, uh, old Randy Newberg said one time that, uh, there's a lot more deer habitat than there are deer.

• 26:50Speaker 05

  Hmm.

• 26:53Speaker 07

  And he was kind of getting at like, you just got to go look.

• 26:56Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 26:56Speaker 07

  At a point like you, you can do a lot of prep, but at a point you just got to go look.

• 27:00Speaker 05

  Mm hmm.

• 27:03Speaker 01

  911, what's your emergency?

• 27:07Speaker 01

  Please help us. They're everywhere. We think they're murder hornets.

• 27:11Speaker 02

  911 Nashville returns. It's a homicide detective down here. Three bodies on the ground. With emergencies of biblical proportions.

• 27:19Speaker 03

  Oh, since swarms upon you and upon your people. That's one of the plagues of Bible. And somebody's unleashing them on Nashville.

• 27:26Speaker 02

  Brian Phillippe, 2911 Nashville. All new Thursdays on ABC, next day on Hulu.

• 27:32Speaker 01

  Cash flow crunch? OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds up to $200,000 right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 28:03Speaker 02

  Breathe in and reset with Lincoln Rejuvenate. An available multi-sensory feature in the 2027 Lincoln Navigator SUV. Experience the luxurious massage, visuals, and scents to help you relax in the driver's seat. It's your time for a reset. Visit Lincoln.com to learn more. Lincoln Rejuvenate does not operate unless the vehicle is in park. When the vehicle is off or if any doors open, do not use the feature in a closed garage or in other enclosed areas. See owner's manual for important operating instructions. Lincoln and Navigator trademarks of Ford and its affiliates. All rights reserved.

• 28:35Speaker 07

  And on, on that note, a little bit, uh, and, and Phil will play a clip here. But, um, another really good question, man, that, that I've actually thought about is from Kurtzworld, uh, at Kurtzworld. Um, and he said, with backcountry hunting, do you need to worry about scent if you're camping near your glassing spot?

• 28:57Speaker 05

  Hmm.

• 28:59Speaker 05

  Man, on a, on a, any, I guess, backcountry hunt, I try not to camp too close. Uh, to whatever I'm, I'm hunting or wherever I think, you know, the spot that I think the animals are going to be. And like in that spot, sure, there was probably deer on the ridge that I camped on. I mean, you're going to have to give and take a little bit. But you know, with hiking, sweating as much as I do, you know, when you're going up and down mountains.

• 29:29Speaker 05

  I mean, I don't do any kind of scent control for those types of hunts. I usually just feel like when I'm, you know, going to find a deer by glassing, it's going to be far enough away where no matter what the wind's doing, they're probably not going to pick me off by scent. Um, once I start making a stalk, you know, then I'm going to start worrying about what the wind's doing. But again, I feel like. Most times, you know, four, 500 yards you can get with these animals with, with the wind on your back and they're not really going to spook.

• 30:06Speaker 07

  Okay.

• 30:07Speaker 05

  You know? I'm going to roll this clip really here. Yeah, yeah. I did not achieve my goal of one mule deer before dark, but that's not going to deter me. I'm camped right on top of a great glassing knob and I'll be back on the glass at first light.

• 30:24Speaker 07

  Yeah. So you were fine glass, like glassing from camp just because you had that buffer where you had, you were kind of past that four or 500 yard zone.

• 30:33Speaker 05

  Yeah. And again, like I said, there's probably animals on the ridge I was on, but you can't, I mean, you just can't always go where there's.

• 30:41Speaker 07

  Sure.

• 30:41Speaker 05

  Zero animals, you know?

• 30:43Speaker 07

  And, and so another question, um, you know, you, you, you remained optimistic in the video. Um, but after glassing for, for half a day, this made me kind of realize that maybe I have a patience issue. Were, were you like second guessing yourself at all that night when you were setting up your tent?

• 31:03Speaker 05

  No. No, I, I, I just feel like one, one afternoon, just.

• 31:10Speaker 07

  Without a deer.

• 31:11Speaker 05

  Yeah, you, you gotta give it more time. And honestly, it's like in that kind, and when you know you're in deer country, now you gotta just give it more time. And I always remind myself like I'm only looking for one. And maybe it's that kind of a spot where there aren't a lot of other deer that a, a single big buck or maybe with a couple does. That's where you're going to find them because when there's less deer and if you're in deer, good deer habitat, that's more food, more cover, more all of that for the deer that are in that area. And, you know? Hopefully you're, you think the big buck's going to be, going to be in there, but no. I mean, but I did move after whatever it was, two and a half, three days.

• 31:55Speaker 05

  When it just seemed like I wasn't seeing enough and it was mostly, I was seeing more hunters than deer. Um. But yeah, honestly, like I could have had more patience and probably just like stuck to it and stayed in there. And eventually turned up a buck in that spot, you know?

• 32:14Speaker 07

  Hmm.

• 32:15Speaker 05

  I think so.

• 32:17Speaker 05

  Cause you gotta trust it, you know, if you like, if you're in a good spot, you know, it's deer country. You've seen some does around. And again, that time of year, late October, those deer are starting to move, you know? The, those deer have a little bit of migration, um, that they do. And so, you know? Any morning you could wake up and there's a whole new batch of deer in your zone.

• 32:41Speaker 07

  Yeah. I mean, the rut can bring anything in too.

• 32:44Speaker 05

  That too.

• 32:45Speaker 07

  Um, so sticker with the camp theme, uh, another question that came in was how does all the clothing you wear? Uh, play into your sleeping bag and/or raiding? Meaning do you put on all of your gear at night and then get into a lighter bag? Um, or do you just always bring the warmest bag possible?

• 33:06Speaker 05

  Um, I don't bring the warmest bag possible, but I also do not put on all my gear uh to sleep at night. Um, I kinda have that in the back of my head is like, oh, if something really changes in the weather and it gets cold, like I have that option, but I've found that when I wear too many clothes,

• 33:27Speaker 05

  like I just have a harder time regulating and I end up sort of sweating and then once you sweat, you got it, you know, you're gonna get evaporative cooling and you're gonna get colder. Um, so I like to, you know, like I, I've definitely done like a pair of pants, you know, and a base layer for sure. Or maybe my long johns on the bottom and the base layer up top. But I feel like when I get too much over that, it just gets too warm in there and I sweat and then that's a bad, bad, bad gig. So in my mind though, I do think about, like in the worst case scenario, let's just say they're, they're calling for, you know, lows in the upper twenties, low thirties. But you're like, oh, I'm gonna be up on the mountain, so maybe it could drop to fifteen one night, right?

• 34:12Speaker 05

  Like in that scenario, can I survive? I always ask that question to myself, like in the worst case scenario, when I'm out there, like can I make it through the night by, like I had a big puffy down jacket. Instead of wearing it, I could actually just like lay it over my bag and add some insulation.

• 34:32Speaker 05

  So I more think about it this way where I'll wear, I'll bring less clothes, knowing that I have a sleeping bag, that if there's like a really cold evening or cold morning, I could use that bag, wrap it around me, do some glassing, wrap it around me while I'm preparing food or whatever, because it's gonna be probably a very short period of time in the day. When it is that cold, sun's gonna come up, it's gonna warm me up. Or at night, it's like, well, you're gonna eat and then you're getting in your bag to go to sleep. So you really only have like these short periods when it's gonna be really cold, you kinda have to endure before you're gonna be fine again.

• 35:07Speaker 07

  Yep, yep, makes sense. Um, and then Ryan, Ryan Scott Ray wrote in and said, "How far from a main road did you have to go to find this spot?" And I, there, there was a lot of questions similar to this, cause it did have such a, a backcountry vibe. Um, you know, and then we, we got the on it, like the, the e-scouting question as well. Like i- is there kind of a, a level where you just know you need to get away from, from a main road or is it more?

• 35:36Speaker 05

  No.

• 35:36Speaker 07

  No.

• 35:37Speaker 05

  Okay. I don't think so. I think it's more about finding a spot where the spots that are overlooked, because these days, it's like,

• 35:47Speaker 05

  buddy of mine, like many years ago, who's in Colorado, he said, it's like, he's like, everybody that comes here now is like a little mini campaigns. He's like, we were ten miles in, covered up in guys. And it's like, sometimes that hurts people, cause they're like, oh, the farther I get, the better it's gonna be. And sure, there's some truth to that, cause you are cutting out people, um, the farther you get. But it's like, how many people does it take to make a place busy, right?

• 36:18Speaker 07

  Sure.

• 36:18Speaker 05

  I mean, if there's two or three groups hunting the same basin, it feels real busy. Um, so I think it's more about just finding spots that are like, are overlooked. And sometimes those can be close to the road, they can be close to town even, um, cause people are just driving by them all the time. Um, if there's not easy access, you know, you have to maybe go around some private land to get in there. Or you gotta paddle a canoe across the reservoir to get in there. Or there's no trail, and so you're like, right off the bat, you just gotta go up some ridge with no trail. I, I don't know. Um, yeah. So I didn't have to go far from, and when they say main road, I don't know exactly what they, what they're asking about.

• 37:02Speaker 05

  If that's pavement or just something you can drive, but honestly, I think that that pack out, uh, where we finally killed the buck was, it was definitely less than two miles. Like it, it wasn't too, too bad.

• 37:14Speaker 07

  Yeah, and I, so y- y- you brought it up, but we had a couple of questions come in and, and then before you answer up, I'll, I'll let, uh, uh, Phil play the clip, but um, a couple of questions came in about, you know, first spot doesn't work out, you go to the second trailhead. But you just immediately get off the trail and start bushwhacking it. Um, let's play the clip here, Phil.

• 37:38Speaker 05

  Instead of walking up the trail, I decide to cross the creek and bushwhack towards a ridge with no trail. Having never been here, I picked the most jungle-like willow thicket in the county to go through.

• 37:54Speaker 05

  Buddy, it's deep. You don't wanna just fall in here.

• 38:07Speaker 05

  Well, I can pull.

• 38:10Speaker 05

  Half of it.

• 38:13Speaker 05

  Yeah, when I pole planted, just jumped the creek, the pole, like this pointy end stuck between some rocks and it literally pulled it right out of the upper part of the shaft and uh, never to be seen again.

• 38:29Speaker 05

  This looks like fun.

• 38:37Speaker 05

  And that's open. Eighty-five yards.

• 38:48Speaker 05

  Talk about some country to get turned around in.

• 38:53Speaker 05

  There's a creek to our left, maybe. I feel like we crossed that [BLEEP] a bunch. Just [BLEEP] don't know how to get around it. Do you wanna try to go around it? It was thick.

• 39:07Speaker 05

  You can tell by my vocabulary, I'm a bit frustrated, but maybe this is what it takes to get away from the crowd. If it wasn't for Onyx, I'd still be beating the brush.

• 39:22Speaker 07

  Yeah, so, I mean, it looks like you had to work harder, but is that kind of a common strategy of yours where you'll roll into a trailhead and just be like, uh, everybody's going this way, cause that's where the trail goes, I'm going this other way?

• 39:33Speaker 05

  I mean, you know how it is, I mean, some trails, you know, they zigzag, uh, what's the other term for that?

• 39:43Speaker 06

  Switchback.

• 39:44Speaker 05

  Switchbacks, thanks, Phil. See, Phil said he's gonna have nothing to add to the conversation.

• 39:49Speaker 06

  Got switchback, nailed it.

• 39:50Speaker 05

  Um, that could be a good trivia question, actually. Let me, hold on, folks.

• 39:54Speaker 06

  I think it's been one.

• 39:55Speaker 05

  Really?

• 39:55Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 39:56Speaker 05

  Dang it.

• 39:56Speaker 06

  And kind of recently.

• 39:57Speaker 05

  Dang it. I gotta, I gotta, uh, host an episode in a week and uh,

• 40:03Speaker 06

  Sorry.

• 40:04Speaker 05

  No, it's all good. Never know. Um, but uh,

• 40:10Speaker 05

  yeah, you never know, like, the, the trail's gonna take you to someplace, whether it's some ridge and it might be a great ridge to go hunt, or a great overlook to go hunt. But the, just the spot, when I was done looking at Onyx that night, I was like, okay, where I wanna go, is like, it almost paralleled the trail, but it was up the ridge instead of going up the gut. And so eventually, when I was on the ridge, I was probably, I was glassing across the trail itself. Um, but the trail just didn't go up that ridge and I needed to get high so I could glass, right?

• 40:45Speaker 07

  Mm-hmm.

• 40:46Speaker 05

  Um, and I just hadn't scouted it. I mean, we, I pulled in the night before, it was dark. And it's like, or almost dark, and we just didn't have enough time to really find like where to go exactly. And when I walked out that evening in dusk, I didn't have to go through that jungle. I literally just went like hundred yards, you know, whatever it was, farther west and like went around all of that and made a very easy creek crossing and I was out, you know?

• 41:14Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 41:15Speaker 05

  So, um, yeah, I, it's like a, I don't know if it's like a strategy, I just like picked a spot and to get to that spot, that's what I had to go through.

• 41:24Speaker 07

  Yeah, yeah, makes sense. Um, and then, you know, speaking of, of the physicality, uh, you, you at the, at the beginning, you, you said, you know, yeah, it was kind of hard. Um, but, but there, there were a lot of questions about getting prepared for something like this. Can you speak to that in terms of, you know, really was this a pretty arduous hunt? And then, you know, how do you get yourself ready for, even if you weren't a, as far back as maybe what it looked like? It certainly looks steep, right? Even just your cross-country or your cross-canyon to get to that buck after it went down.

• 42:02Speaker 05

  Mm-hmm.

• 42:02Speaker 07

  Um, were you feeling the miles on this one a little bit? Um,

• 42:07Speaker 05

  Yeah, I didn't have a ton of time to hunt, so I think we ended up killing the buck on like day five. So it's probably not quite long enough to really start getting worn down. Um, too bad. I was definitely a little tired. Um,

• 42:24Speaker 05

  And you know, a big part of what makes this one more physical is that if you're gonna be, you know, sleeping out of your backpack, carrying your shelter, carrying your sleeping bag, carrying your food, all that stuff, you know, it's not much, but it adds, you know, depending on how light your gear is, 10 to 20 pounds to your backpack. And all of a sudden, every step just is a lot harder. So, um, I definitely, I go, I try to go to the gym once, definitely, maybe twice a week when I'm in town. And, uh, it's called the Mountain Project, it's in Bozeman. And their, their motto is sort of like they train the uphill athlete.

• 43:07Speaker 05

  So people that like to go up and down the mountains around here, whether it's on skis, bikes, uh, their own two feet, running, hiking, whatever it is, they have us do things that's gonna make, you know, going uphill easier. Um, so there's, it's like every day is leg day in there. Uh, I was in there this morning and, uh, I did a bunch of squats. I'm trying to think what else we did, like, um, I think it was like three different kinds of squats. It was like back squats, sumo squats and some other ones. So like, uh, my legs are gonna be worn out tomorrow, uh, from that workout. But like, there's no better feeling when on day three, and this is what I tell people, is like,

• 43:49Speaker 05

  everybody has it in them to do it on day one. But doing it on day three and four and five gets harder if you haven't done some kind of training for it. And your training should look like what it's gonna be like in the field. Like all of us go out for a hunt that's three days or five days or maybe seven days. Um, so you need to be able to do it one day after another, after another, after another, and not after just one or two days, be like, oh my God, I need to take a half day off, right? If you only have five, uh, that's, uh, is that 20%? Yeah, that's 20% of your, um, no, one hunt would only be 10% on a five day hunt.

• 44:31Speaker 05

  Anyways, 10%, still a lot, you don't want to give it up.

• 44:35Speaker 07

  Mm-hmm.

• 44:35Speaker 05

  One afternoon.

• 44:36Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 44:37Speaker 05

  Took off a whole day, it'd be 20%.

• 44:38Speaker 07

  Yep.

• 44:39Speaker 05

  Um, so, yeah, and, and so like, how best to do it? I mean, if it is literally like a, like gonna be a, a backcountry mule deer hunt in the mountains, is yes, make every day leg day. You go make sure your, your butt and your, your quads and your calves are, are strong. And, uh, make sure that you have some kind of endurance. And that doesn't mean that you have to do 20 miles at once, but the kind of endurance that lets you go five days in a row.

• 45:10Speaker 07

  No prison bods.

• 45:13Speaker 05

  Yeah, I don't think you need a, a prison bod. Uh, another, um, my main elk hunting mentor, Ethan, used to always say, uh, legs and lungs, legs and lungs, you know, that's what gets stuff killed in the mountains. And I still believe that, you know, if you have legs and lungs, you're gonna be able to get it done.

• 45:33Speaker 07

  Yeah, and, and so, um, another, uh, person, I, I don't know, Ivy B, Lil Slim, uh, wrote in and said, uh, I hunt the hardwoods for whitetail and wonder what's the difference hunting mule deer out west?

• 45:51Speaker 05

  Hmm, um, bigger country. Um, and that, that in of itself, I think, makes most of the differences. I mean, we could get into the nuanced differences of how mule deer act versus whitetail deer act and maybe what they eat. I mean, a lot of places where we hunt out west, we have both species. The mule deer are usually like down in the riparian areas. I mean, my house is an example of this, like where we, our house sits, like if you look down the hill, you're more likely to see a whitetail deer. If you look up the hill, you're more likely to see a mule deer. Um, you know, the browse is probably pretty similar.

• 46:34Speaker 05

  Uh, like actually hunting like hardwoods, it's like, yeah, in the hardwoods that I hunt in Wisconsin, it's like max distance is gonna be 200 yards. And you don't see those kind of sightlines very often where you can actually see 200 yards. Although my little Oaks of Antipract bucks that trend. Um, but like in the hardwoods, yeah, you're, you're a lot of times trying to kill stuff at 50 yards and under. And, uh, mule deer hunting out west, it can happen, close range, like you bump something as you're walking somewhere. But like, again, most people that I know that, and hunt like the way I do for mule deer,

• 47:18Speaker 05

  are gonna glass something up at, you know, out to a mile, and then make a play to get to within rifle range. Um, and, and the, the range is gonna be probably dictated. I had to go through this on this hunt on the stalk. There was another ridge that would have been a lot faster to get to, but it was gonna bump me out to like 600 plus. Um, and it actually wasn't as later, you know, looking at it, it wasn't as direct, like a, like a look on the hillside that they were on. So I'm glad I went to the other one. But, uh, just like the, that's the, the topography itself dictated how far the shot was gonna be. You know, I got as close as I could be without getting on the hill with them,

• 48:02Speaker 05

  which at that point, you're sort of like gonna walk in there and then just hope to get a shot when you jump them.

• 48:06Speaker 07

  Mm-hmm.

• 48:07Speaker 05

  Um, and the closest I could get was right there at 400 yards. Um, so shot distances, big difference. And, and yeah, there's a lot of way to hunt, a lot of ways to hunt whitetails in the hardwoods, you know, whether you're, you know, sitting, slipping around, there is all that. And, you know, you could do that with mule deer too, but most of us feel it's more efficient to glass, a lot of country, find, find a deer and then make a move.

• 48:35Speaker 07

  Mm-hmm. Um, all right, well, before the next question, Phil, I'll have you play this, uh, this next clip here.

• 48:46Speaker 04

  The buck bedded. I got his location marked on Onyx. And, uh, gonna try to make the approach now. If I can get the ridge posing him, I should be four to 500 yards.

• 49:07Speaker 04

  1200 and 660. There's, I have another ridge that's right between me and the buck right now. The shot's gonna push it out closer to 600. I just don't know if I'm comfortable with that.

• 49:22Speaker 04

  Almost feel like it's worth going up there and checking.

• 49:28Speaker 04

  Other ridge puts me just over 400. I'm gonna go for the closer shot, a little walk and walk. But, uh, it'd be worth it. Um, plus this ridge, it's at 600 from the deer. It's awfully thick. I just don't know what my shooting lane off the ridge is gonna be where the other one, I know for a fact I'll have, it'll be clear for me.

• 49:57Speaker 07

  Um, yeah, so, so question there, you know, you, you've been looking for your deer, you find him. Uh, when, when you find your, your target animal, um, and you know, like that, that clock is ticking, how much time do you spend watching behavior, bedding them down, getting a lay of the land versus just, man, we gotta cut distance now?

• 50:23Speaker 05

  Um, well, you can tell from that clip, I was, I was in a hurry. I was in a rush to, uh, to cut the distance and get on them. And I think we had, I say we, cause Max was there too. Uh, I'd found that buck, it's probably getting on in the morning, you know, I don't know, 8:30, 9, 9:30, something like that. And so those deer bedded down pretty soon after we found them. And as soon as that happens, it's like, okay, do your, the best you can to actually mark that spot on the map with Onyx, right? Figure that out, then figure out, you know, what's gonna be the best approach? What's gonna be the best place to try to get a shot on them from if they stay there?

• 51:06Speaker 05

  And then go, um, had they stayed on their feet and kept feeding longer, I probably would have stayed and kept on watching them. Yeah, I mean, there's one, the, there's two clocks ticking. One is the one where they're just gonna like walk out of your life, right? They go behind some ridge, you can't see them anymore. They, you know, go up the drainage and leave it, you can't see them anymore. There's the other one where it's like, it's public land, someone else might be seeing them or someone else is walking down the ridge that they're on and all of a sudden they bump them, like you don't know. Um, so it's, uh, you know, it's, it's a balance, but I definitely don't, uh, you know, I'd rather be laying there at 400 yards getting bored, waiting for them to stand up,

• 51:51Speaker 05

  than like, you know, dilly-dally my way over there and then get there and they're not there anymore. So, I mean, it, it like the less pressure. I, I can remember Randy Almer telling me, who if you don't know who Randy is, is like, you know, one of the greatest western bull hunters ever. And he was talking about watching deer and, and big bulls for days and watching what they do, where they walk, where they sleep, where they're feeding, how they get between the two areas, until he felt like, okay, I know exactly where I'm gonna go and that bull, and he's an archer.

• 52:30Speaker 05

  So he's like, I'm gonna go right there and that bull's gonna walk by me at, you know, less than 50 yards and I'll kill him, right? But, uh, you know, that's, you know, in a, in a scenario where he felt like someone else wasn't gonna come in there and bump him out of there, you know?

• 52:48Speaker 07

  So, so then when you're cutting the distance like that, um, you get to the ridgeline that you're, you, you wanna be at. Obviously you had to do quite a lot of vert. Um, is there a point where you start pacing yourself a little bit, thinking about heart rate and nerves, uh, before you kind of crest that ridge or settle behind your gun?

• 53:10Speaker 05

  Uh,

• 53:13Speaker 05

  For sure. I mean, especially if they're up on their feet or looking like they're gonna get up on their feet. I mean, they were bedded the whole time we made the approach and slipped in there.

• 53:24Speaker 05

  So I didn't really have to think about that because I had, at that point, it seemed like I had a lot of time and I could easily just slip in and, uh, and, you know, my heart rate had already dropped not thinking about it. But I can tell you, just like from recently being on an elk hunt, where I was chasing elk around every single day, like I thought about that a lot. As I was like getting in there and you're realizing that like, okay, this might happen. I might get a shot. Start, you know, controlling your heart rate and either moving slower or just some deep breaths because you're, you know, you're getting anxious and excited about, you know, the proximity of elk and just trying to calm myself down. But for that buck,

• 54:08Speaker 05

  didn't really have to think about it because he was just bedded. So we were able to slip into that 400 yards, uh, without having to drop the heart rate.

• 54:21Speaker 01

  911, what's your emergency?

• 54:25Speaker 01

  Please help us. They're everywhere. We think they're murder hornets.

• 54:29Speaker 02

  911 Nashville returns.

• 54:32Speaker 07

  What's a homicide detective doing here?

• 54:33Speaker 02

  Three bodies on the ground. With emergencies of biblical proportions. All sins swarms upon you and upon your people.

• 54:40Speaker 07

  That's one of the plagues of the Bible.

• 54:42Speaker 02

  Somebody's unleashing them on Nashville. Brian Phillippe joins 911 Nashville. All new Thursdays on ABC, next day on Hulu.

• 54:51Speaker 01

  OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 help make it happen fast. Rated A+ by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of five-star TrustPilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at ondeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 55:20Speaker 02

  Breathe in and reset with Lincoln Rejuvenate. An available multisensory feature in the 2027 Lincoln Navigator SUV. Experience the luxurious massage, visuals, and sense to help you relax in the driver's seat. It's your time for a reset. Visit lincoln.com to learn more. Lincoln Rejuvenate does not operate unless the vehicle is in park, when the vehicle is off, or if any doors open. Do not use the feature in a closed garage or in other enclosed areas. See owner's manual for important operating instructions. Lincoln and Navigator trademarks of Ford or its affiliates. All rights reserved.

• 55:51Speaker 07

  All right, this, this next, uh, question comes with another clip, um, that, that came from IG on, on why not shoot your, uh, deer when it's bedded? Um, but Phil, let's play that.

• 56:05Speaker 04

  He's behind that tree. He's bedded.

• 56:11Speaker 04

  Oh, he's gonna have to wake up and stand up.

• 56:16Speaker 04

  It took me about two hours to do this talk and then get in here and get all situated. So my rifle's pretty much pointed at him within a few yards. They were all bedded. A few of the does are standing now. So the name of the game now is just wait. I'm not a huge fan of shooting them bedded.

• 56:39Speaker 04

  It certainly can be done, but it's harder to tell where exactly the vitals are. I'm just gonna sit here. Just trying to stay comfortable, keep classing them. Hopefully he'll stand up sooner than later.

• 56:55Speaker 05

  Pretty buck. Um, yeah, well, two things with that particular deer is like, one, he was beheaded, or sorry, he was bedded directly behind the, that treetop. So I would have had to change positions to maybe to even get an angle, you know, to him. Um, and he was bedded in a little bit of that, uh, buck brush or tobacco brush they call it. So I wasn't even really looking at that opportunity because I felt like that stuff kind of might've been in the way. But mostly it's just because like when a deer or an elk or whatever beds down, it's like, not only are they sort of compressing their body and their, you know, legs, you know, get into a, you know, kind of a funnier position and their shoulders roll back or forward

• 57:39Speaker 05

  or depending on how their, their legs are. But it's not like they just go from standing perfectly broadside and they go straight down onto their belly. Right? I mean, they might do that, but a lot of times they're sort of canted over a little bit, right? And their belly is showing and so they're more like almost laying partially on their side. And so,

• 58:03Speaker 05

  yeah, you can still sort of visualize where exactly the bullet's path should be, but it just gets a little bit trickier. And, um, again, in that situat- like, had he been at a hundred yards? I probably would've just shot one right in there, right? Because it's like, uh, uh, there's just less, um, chance of messing something up, right? I can like pinpoint it in there at a hundred yards and like, I mean, if you want, you can shoot him in the ear at a hundred yards.

• 58:33Speaker 05

  At 400 yards, it's like, I want as big of a target as possible and like know exactly what I'm shooting at. And the best opportunity for that is going to come when he's standing and, and broadside.

• 58:46Speaker 05

  So yeah, that's why, um, not shoot a deer while he's bedded. And again, there really was an opportunity on this one. But even if he was like wide out in the open, it just is, uh, I feel like the target's smaller, the angles of the target are more difficult to understand. Um, so.

• 59:06Speaker 07

  Yeah, makes sense, man. Um, well, uh, another, there, there were quite a few questions in general about kind of wind and everything. You, you might've answered this a little bit off the top. Um, but as you were laying there on that hillside, were, were you talking to Max at all about, you know, the, the feeling that there could be a, a, a little bit of a wind going across canyon, um, between you and that deer before shooting? Was it?

• 59:34Speaker 05

  Man, we, we talked about it a lot. It's just like the, it literally felt like it was coming straight on at us. And straight on or straight from us to the deer, you know, you shouldn't get much, you know, left to right deviation. Um, but as we can see, there was some. Um, yeah, because I guess that's like a one MOA wind, right? 400 yards. It was about four inches, maybe five inches.

• 1:00:04Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 1:00:05Speaker 05

  Well, I can't even remember now.

• 1:00:05Speaker 07

  Which doesn't take much, man.

• 1:00:07Speaker 05

  No, it doesn't, you know? I mean, uh, that mule deer is, you know, a little bit bigger than a whitetail, not much. Um, so, you know, honestly, they're, you know, they've got like, what, probably a 10-inch circle roughly for vitals? And, um, yeah, you can clearly see in the video that both my shots, can't remember now, which I think they go right. Because I think the first shot he's facing left and I hit him a little back and then he turns, he's facing the other direction. I ended up hitting him in the neck. Um.

• 1:00:38Speaker 07

  Yeah, we can actually play that clip now.

• 1:00:43Speaker 04

  In one?

• 1:00:44Speaker 07

  Yep.

• 1:00:57Speaker 04

  Maybe a little low, but I think it was a hard shot.

• 1:01:32Speaker 05

  Yeah, it's, I mean, that's why I had to go and check that zero, man, because it like, we had all, we had two hours plus to like set up the shooting position. So I was extremely comfortable. We had moved all the rocks out of the way. Like everything was just solid as could be. Um, and then to sort of miss like that right a little bit, it was, it was like, what? What's going on here? You know? And so we had just, we had definitely discussed the wind a bunch, but like every time we're sitting there feeling it, it just felt like it was just coming right at us. And again, it's kind of like, it's tricky because that, that's, there's, that's a canyon for you, right? And so maybe it was right there at the muzzle, but then, you know,

• 1:02:13Speaker 05

  20 or 30 yards out from that, it was blowing left to right, you know? Um, so yeah, we just, we just couldn't really feel it, that it was, it was gonna push. Pushed that much left to right.

• 1:02:27Speaker 07

  Yeah, it's crazy how much it can move, man. And you, and you, you are one of the more. I'd say this if you weren't here. You're one of the more methodical shooters I've, I've been around to. Um, and I think it just goes to show that those cross canyon shots can be really tricky. Cause so much is happening between you and the animal that it just doesn't make, make sense sometimes. Um, but Buck is down. I mean, the, the good thing is, is that you stayed on scope. You, you had good follow-up shot. Um. What's going through your?

• 1:03:01Speaker 05

  Speaking of that, let's just make another comment on, I didn't even think about this for the suppressor. It's like staying on scope, staying on target for follow-up shots, seeing what your shots are doing like.

• 1:03:13Speaker 07

  Sure.

• 1:03:13Speaker 05

  At 400 yards with that setup with the, with the, when I'm going to attribute this to the suppressor. But like, I was watching my bullets hit him.

• 1:03:22Speaker 07

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:03:23Speaker 05

  And, um, man, that is huge intel. Cause what if it was like, you know, what if both of them hit way low? And I'm like, okay, obviously like my dope is wrong, right? Well, if you know they both hit low, it's like, okay, we'll make the adjustment to hit 10 inches higher and shoot again, right? But if you're, if your gun is bucking so much that you're losing that sight picture and you don't know where you're hitting. Then, um, that's when stuff gets Western because you're like, oh my gosh. I've waited all, I've put all this, you know, into this. Now I have my opportunity. It's not going my way. And it can, you can get rattled really easily.

• 1:04:03Speaker 05

  And the next thing you know, you burn up all 10 rounds of ammo that you brought with you and he's still walking around on the hillside.

• 1:04:10Speaker 07

  Yeah. Yeah. I mean, um, it's a, it's a debate right now in comp shooting, um. Suppressors versus brakes, right? Because a lot of being able to track your bullet going through the air. Right? Has to do with whether or not you're reacting to the concussion that a brake can cause.

• 1:04:30Speaker 05

  Right.

• 1:04:31Speaker 07

  So you're talking about recoil management and a brake does a little bit better job. But your ability to keep your eyes open and watch that thing go through the air. Man, the suppressor, you can't beat it.

• 1:04:42Speaker 05

  Mm-mm.

• 1:04:43Speaker 07

  And you're not really, when you flin, you know, and I don't mean flinch when pulling the trigger, but when you flinch on recoil. You're not really reacting to the recoil of the gun. It's a 6.5 PRC, right?

• 1:04:54Speaker 05

  I think it's, yeah, I think it's more the sound and the concussion.

• 1:04:57Speaker 07

  Concussion, right? Yeah. So it's, it's a really good point.

• 1:05:00Speaker 05

  I mean, I think that's why my girls are good shooters is because they've never shot a gun that scares them.

• 1:05:06Speaker 07

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:05:07Speaker 05

  They've never had to deal with that. Maybe a little bit on like shooting a 20 gauge shotgun, but like with rifles.

• 1:05:14Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 1:05:14Speaker 05

  They're as calm as can be because they're not like, they're not scared of the recoil or the bang, the concussion, whatever it might be.

• 1:05:20Speaker 07

  That's great. Um, so Buck is down. Uh. What's going through your mind immediately post-shot?

• 1:05:30Speaker 05

  Uh, pumped.

• 1:05:33Speaker 05

  Uh, you know, we were close enough, uh, in those mountains of town that. And it was early enough in the afternoon where once that buck was down, we started figuring out, you know, what was it going to take to hike over, do him. Uh, butcher him, you know, film all of it and then hike him out. That we would probably be able to have pizza and beer, you know? We'd be like pushing it like we're going to come in right at closing time, but more than likely. Instead of eating, uh, another rehydrated meal, we're, we're going to be eating, you know, pizza and beer. So.

• 1:06:05Speaker 07

  Did you?

• 1:06:07Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:06:07Speaker 07

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:06:09Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah. Slept in a hotel.

• 1:06:11Speaker 07

  All right.

• 1:06:12Speaker 05

  In a, in a bed with sheets. Um. Which is, you know, I think it's funny because like you always think about you that you really want that, but honestly. Like it's a better story and it's in the, in the end, it ends up probably being more fun to go back to camp. Eat whatever you got. Maybe we had some beers there or not. I don't know, but you make a fire, you celebrate there. And that's honestly probably a better. Like story to tell later than you're like, well, yeah, and we just rushed out of there and made it to a hotel and pizza and beer, you know? Cause we're all so soft that that's, that's what we need, you know? Uh, but yeah, just like, just pumped, you know, when it, when it happens and it, and it all.

• 1:06:56Speaker 05

  It all comes through. You wanna, uh, you wanna get over there, get your hands on him and, uh. You know, it was, even though it was early, it was late enough that, and it turned out so that we got to the truck, maybe, I don't know, 30 minutes after dark. And, uh, I don't know, hiking around in those mountains off trail, it's, uh, it's always nicer to do that in the daylight.

• 1:07:17Speaker 07

  Mm-hmm. Yeah. And, uh, he was on a pretty steep hillside. How long does it take for you to break down a mule deer? You know, you, you had Max there. Was, was he helping with that process much or?

• 1:07:28Speaker 05

  Yeah, he helped.

• 1:07:29Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 1:07:30Speaker 05

  Um. I always figured for a bull elk, it's about two hours. Um. You know, so for a mule deer, it's honestly probably not that much faster. Yeah. It's smaller, but you sort of still have all the same parts that you have to deal with. So I don't know, 90 minutes to, two hours to get him, excuse me. To get him actually in game bags and, you know, in the pack. Um. So yeah, not too bad, you know, and it all takes longer when we're filming. That, that's, that's what really adds time is that, uh. You can't rush through it, you know, you gotta give the, uh, camera operator time to get the shots that they want to get.

• 1:08:07Speaker 07

  Sure. Any idea how much your pack weighed once you got loaded up?

• 1:08:12Speaker 05

  Oh, man. Um, Max helped, you know, pack some meat out too. Um.

• 1:08:20Speaker 05

  It wasn't too, too bad. If, if I just had to throw a number out there. 70?

• 1:08:27Speaker 07

  Hmm.

• 1:08:30Speaker 05

  Very manageable, you know, like enough that you like feel the strain on your hips a little bit and your knees a little bit, you know, come, when you're coming off of a steep hillside. Um, but you know, I packed the track and poles around everywhere, although I only had one. That was in working order, uh, for that pack out, but, uh. Yeah. I mean, ju- just enough that you know, like you're, you're carrying a pack and you know, the, the hips are going to hurt a little bit.

• 1:08:56Speaker 07

  Yep.

• 1:08:57Speaker 05

  When you, when you get to the bottom, but definitely not a hundred pounds. Um. I think once I get to a hundred, I'm strongly considering like making two 50s versus one, one hundred. Um, I just know too many people that have backs that are, uh. Going to probably be a problem for the rest of their lives. And a lot of it came from, and maybe it wasn't packing meat. Maybe it was from, you know, shoveling too big and heavy a snow at one time. Or whatever it was, but like, I don't want that problem in my life until I die. Like I want to have a good, strong back. And so I got no problem going back twice.

• 1:09:38Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 1:09:39Speaker 05

  Saving my back.

• 1:09:41Speaker 07

  Um, uh, uh, I thought a, a pretty thoughtful question. Um, Derek, the fancy caveman.

• 1:09:48Speaker 05

  Hmm.

• 1:09:49Speaker 07

  Wrote, uh, can you do a deep dive, uh, on putting the food in the dead deer's mouth?

• 1:09:57Speaker 05

  Oh.

• 1:09:59Speaker 05

  Uh, sure. Um, I can't remember exactly where I picked that up. It was definitely at the original elk camp that I guided at in Colorado. Man, I wish I could remember like who exactly brought that to my attention, but, um. I think at the time when I learned about it, I think I was looking for a way to, you know. Maybe respect the animal a little bit, or like in Europe, a big thing is they, you know, they put, you always see the, the boughs of. Um. You know, usually it's like a spruce branch or something on the animal. And if you watch the Latvia episodes, you'll see that a lot of it is like to cover up the wound, like there in, in Europe.

• 1:10:43Speaker 05

  At least where I've been in Europe, it's like a sign of disrespect to like take pictures of the wound. Like they want that animal to look, you know, as much as it was when it was alive. Not, I mean, not really recreating it being alive, but just like, like that wound is somehow disrespectful to show it. So they cover that up. Um. And again, I don't know where I picked it up from, but it was just sort of like, uh, hey, if you're like sort of moving on from this. World that where we're at now and you're going to some, you know, where, where dead deer go to, deer heaven. Like here's a little snack for, for the road ahead. Um.

• 1:11:22Speaker 05

  I think no matter what you do, I think what you, the real thing that you get out of it and that it does for everybody is that. It's, it just slows everything down for a second and makes you think, think about it. And whether, um, lets you just look around a little bit and appreciate the country you're in. Or just say thanks, you know, for the animal for being there or thanks to the, you know. Uh, big game biologists that do all the work to have those animals there, whatever it is. Just, I, I, I always, um. I regret it when we kill something and then we rush out of that situation as fast as we can. Someone's like, okay, go get the can-am and you're going to chop it up and blah, blah, blah, blah. And we'll have pizza and beer in no time, right?

• 1:12:07Speaker 05

  It's like, there's no reason to rush out of there. Like enjoy it, you know? Like soak it in. You're going to be gone from that place. You may never go back to that same ridge, you know, look around. Um, and I think that that's. Now I realize that that's kind of what that does is by just taking a moment to, you know, think about that. Is it just, it just kind of slows everything down a little bit and, and you get to, um, just get a little bit more, add a little bit more to the experience.

• 1:12:36Speaker 07

  That's great. Um, that does it for, for questions. Anything you'd want to, uh, you want to finalize here?

• 1:12:45Speaker 05

  Hmm.

• 1:12:47Speaker 05

  No, man. Get out there and, uh,

• 1:12:51Speaker 05

  go hunting. That's all. Figure out a way to do it. And yeah, don't let having to buy expensive gear keep you from doing it. And don't let stupid internet keep you from doing it, like Instagram. Quit scrolling and, uh, figure out a way to buy a pair of boots and a gun so you can get out there and go hunting.

• 1:13:14Speaker 07

  That's great.

• 1:13:15Speaker 05

  But you got one last clip.

• 1:13:16Speaker 07

  Yeah, there, there's one last clip. I think it's just, man, it's a good headspace that I think we should all be in. It's a

• 1:13:22Speaker 05

  This is a surprise. I don't know what Phil's gonna play now.

• 1:13:27Speaker 04

  I was just thinking about how heavy my pack was starting to feel.

• 1:13:31Speaker 05

  Oh.

• 1:13:31Speaker 04

  Shoulders getting a little sore, hips are feeling it. Still got a couple of miles to go to the truck.

• 1:13:39Speaker 04

  But then I thought, man, how lucky am I and how lucky are we? Do we get to just do this for fun and we have this opportunity for everybody and enjoy the public lands and these hunting opportunities? And all the things to be grateful for when we get to do this, not just the public lands. You know, your family that lets you go and do this. Employer in my case that pays me to go do this and have a great time. And the wildlife managers. They make sure that we have these abundant populations of game that we get to hunt. There's gonna be a lot of people I'll forget to say thank you to, but instead of complaining about how heavy the pack feels,

• 1:14:22Speaker 04

  it's better just to think about how grateful I am that, uh, I even have the opportunity to have a heavy pack like this. Thanks for watching. We'll see you next time.

• 1:14:38Speaker 04

  Slippery.

• 1:14:40Speaker 05

  Almost went down hard there.

• 1:14:44Speaker 05

  In my old age, Garrett, I'm losing my balance a little bit. Yeah, that's, uh, you know,

• 1:14:52Speaker 05

  that is a good headspace to be in to, you know, always remember how fortunate we all are. Um, I've tried to bring that around to, tell me what you think about this. I've been doing some announcing, I was telling you about.

• 1:15:03Speaker 07

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:15:04Speaker 05

  Varsity volleyball games here at Bozeman Hive. And, uh, it seems like for some reason, people have quit singing the national anthem. Instead, we just listen to like a recording where we listen to, if there's a singer that comes to sing it, we listen to them sing it. Which in some cases I agree, in that case, maybe it's better just to listen. But like, I feel like growing up, we always sang the national anthem.

• 1:15:29Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 1:15:30Speaker 05

  And so, and I feel like that it's kind of in the same headspace. It's like when you sing the national anthem, you're like, oh yeah, that's right. Like, we're all Americans. And we're sort of like, you're, you're, it takes a second to be like, oh yeah. Even though we all don't always think the same way and things aren't going, you know, the way we think they should be going or whatever. It's like, we should still all appreciate, you know, being Americans and getting to live in this country. Cause it's pretty sweet compared to a lot of other places where you could be in situations you could be in. And so I think singing that national anthem is a good way to remind us of all of that. And, uh, same thing there. When you're out hunting and the hunting sucks

• 1:16:10Speaker 05

  and you're not seeing them, it's like, man, just, just like, think about how like, it's pretty awesome. Cause again, like, I can compare it to Europe. Like, they, in Latvia at least, like, they don't have, like, even, even, it's probably not even 2% of like, sort of the vastness of what we have. Especially in the Rocky Mountains. And, and I would even say in a lot of places back in the east where they have large tracts of national forests where you can literally walk for miles. Like, it's not a thing of Latvia.

• 1:16:41Speaker 07

  Sure.

• 1:16:41Speaker 05

  To go walk for miles. Um, and, uh, it's, um, it's something that we, yeah, we should all appreciate and remember. You know, that it's, uh, it's a real privilege.

• 1:16:54Speaker 07

  Yeah, man. It's a good reminder for all of us. There, there's always something to bitch about. Right? But, uh, life is pretty good on the side.

• 1:17:02Speaker 05

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:17:03Speaker 07

  Um, and you're right. We always did sing along to the national anthem for, I don't know.

• 1:17:07Speaker 05

  Yeah. So I'm, I'm trying to bring it back. I asked them to sing along when I, uh, I, I did, I announced the game on Saturday.

• 1:17:14Speaker 07

  Did they?

• 1:17:15Speaker 05

  I heard a little bit of it. Um, a lot of people are gonna be coming back because it's gonna be the same parents coming back to see the same, you know, players. And so I'm hoping it's gonna catch on. I'm hoping, cause like honestly, like, I looked at the words beforehand. I'm like, I know it pretty good, but I should like brush up a little bit, right? Cause it's a lot easier to sing when you're like very, like, you know what the words are. And, um, it's easy to forget the, the lyrics sometimes. But do you think you could sing it right now?

• 1:17:42Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 1:17:42Speaker 05

  Every single word, no problem?

• 1:17:46Speaker 07

  Yeah, I think so, man. Like, but you know, I went to a one-room schoolhouse where, you know, that's how we would start a lot of our day.

• 1:17:52Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:17:53Speaker 07

  Raising the flag and

• 1:17:54Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:17:54Speaker 07

  Standing there. I think, you know, when I don't sing it now, we're way off topic, but you know, I, not all of us have like a singing voice like Phil. You know?

• 1:18:03Speaker 05

  I know, I know.

• 1:18:05Speaker 07

  You might be getting judged by the, you know, the little ladies standing next to you.

• 1:18:09Speaker 05

  But that's fine. Like, you, we're all there in it together and, um, you know, there's great singers, there's bad ones. And then there's everybody in between, you know, and, and it doesn't really matter how, how it sounds. I think it's just like the, you know, it's like a show of community.

• 1:18:25Speaker 07

  Sure. I'm sure there's a hunting parallel there.

• 1:18:29Speaker 05

  Yeah. Well, I think it's just about being grateful for what we have.

• 1:18:32Speaker 07

  Yep. That's great.

• 1:18:35Speaker 05

  Thank you all for listening and watching. If you went to YouTube to watch this and, uh, hopefully you liked the video and, um, yeah, I just got done filming an elk hunt that, uh, will probably be a long episode with all kinds of action that you'll be able to watch next year.

• 1:18:56Speaker 05

  Um, what, is that it?

• 1:18:57Speaker 07

  That's it.

• 1:18:58Speaker 05

  Nothing else from you, Phil?

• 1:19:00Speaker 07

  I think we're good to sign off.

• 1:19:02Speaker 05

  Y'all keep it real. Go hunting.

• 1:19:11Speaker 02

  Now more than ever, basketball teams are embracing advanced analytics. Nothing's more popular right now than coming up with a fancy new stat that helps teams gain an edge on the court. And this season, Bet365 is embracing a fancy concept of its own. Bet $10, get $200. Here's how it works. When new users sign up with Bet365 and place their first $10 bet, they'll get $200 in bonus bets. Fine, maybe it's not that advanced, but an offer this good doesn't have to be. Bet365, where winning is everything. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or 1-800-MYRESSET. Must be 21+ and present in a state where Bet365 operates. Please gamble responsibly. Restrictions and TNCs apply. Void where prohibited. Download the app today.

• 1:19:53Speaker 06

  Someone once said, everybody's got a plan until they get punched in the mouth.

• 1:19:57Speaker 03

  I did. Mike Tyson.

• 1:19:59Speaker 06

  Oh, well, Mike Tyson and Boost are here to tell you that your mobile plan is punching you in the mouth with prices that can knock you out.

• 1:20:06Speaker 03

  That's a low blow.

• 1:20:08Speaker 06

  Totally. But you can do something about it.

• 1:20:10Speaker 03

  You have to punch back.

• 1:20:12Speaker 06

  No, Mike. You gotta switch to Boost with a plan that's $25 a month forever.

• 1:20:17Speaker 03

  Oh, that's a great plan. Maybe you can do both. Boost Mobile. What's your plan?

• 1:20:23Speaker 00

  Okay. Laundry stinks. Literally. I mean, you could just keep buying new underwear. Not that I've ever done that. Or maybe sort your clothes into piles based on how re-wearable or filthy they are. Or just use Arm & Hammer Deep Clean. It's made for real life stinks and stains. So even if you don't do laundry the quote, "right way," Deep Clean will knock it out. I mean, it is from the number one liquid detergent brand that tackles more loads than any other. Come clean with Arm & Hammer Deep Clean. Number one claim based on total wash loads sold. This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human.