Ep. 866: The Boundary Waters Tragedy, Oklahoma CWD, and Mutilated Paddlefish

Steven Rinella https://www.instagram.com/stevenrinella/?hl=en and the MeatEater crew discuss: A toxic sulfide mine just outside the Boundary Waters Wilderness gets a thumbs up from Senate Republicans; Oklahoma lets loose its pet deer into the wild; how paddlefish anglers in Missouri are mutilating then releasing fish; a meteor shower; and more. Connect with Steve https://www.themeateater.com/authors/steven-rinella and The MeatEater Podcast Network https://www.youtube.com/@MeatEaterPodcastNetwork Steve on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/stevenrinella and Twitter https://twitter.com/stevenrinella?lang=en MeatEater on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/meateater, Facebook https://www.facebook.com/StevenRinellaMeatEater/, Twitter https://twitter.com/MeatEaterTV?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor, and YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@MeatEaterPodcastNetwork See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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• 2:03Speaker 03

  Hit it Phil. Boom. This week on the news show, we're talking about Senate Republicans giving a big old thumbs up to a toxic copper sulfide mine just outside of the Boundary Waters Wilderness on the Superior National Forest. Oklahoma starts letting deer breeders cut their pet deer loose in the wild, thinking it'll somehow help genetics despite any reason to think so. Paddlefish anglers in Missouri are practicing catch, mutilate, and release fishing. I just made that up. Spencer's interested in a meteor shower, which is cool. And Steve bitches even more about Colorado's asinine animal rights movement. Plus a lot more. Joined today by Dr. Randall Williams.

• 2:47Speaker 03

  Jordan Stillers is here from Blood Trails Podcast and many other things.

• 2:52Speaker 05

  Dr. Jordan Stillers.

• 2:53Speaker 03

  Sorry, Dr. Jordan.

• 2:54Speaker 05

  Oh, I'm on the wrong side of the table. It's fine. No, it's fine.

• 2:57Speaker 06

  I'm a big credentialist, you know.

• 2:59Speaker 03

  Dr. Jordan Stillers is here.

• 3:00Speaker 05

  Bachelor's degree.

• 3:02Speaker 03

  BA. BA. Spencer Newhart.

• 3:07Speaker 05

  BA Barack.

• 3:08Speaker 03

  GD. Yanis Peres.

• 3:13Speaker 03

  BA.

• 3:14Speaker 05

  BG.

• 3:16Speaker 03

  BA.

• 3:18Speaker 03

  Brody Henderson.

• 3:19Speaker 05

  You did a great job reading that intro, but I'm curious as to whether you mistakenly said Steve bitches, or you're now referring to yourself as Steve in the third person. Like, that's a thing now?

• 3:30Speaker 03

  No, it's not. Because I was just trying to keep with the format.

• 3:35Speaker 05

  Steve's just being a voice of God.

• 3:37Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's like, picture that you're at home.

• 3:39Speaker 06

  He dissociates for the introductory.

• 3:42Speaker 03

  I bitch more about Colorado's anti fur ban.

• 3:46Speaker 05

  When you're talking to your wife, you're not like, Steve needs to clean his room.

• 3:49Speaker 03

  No, no, I'm gonna bitch about the Colorado's fur ban.

• 3:55Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 3:56Speaker 03

  And there's a bunch of, just, it's, yeah, I'm just gonna go off on it for a while, like an hour.

• 4:00Speaker 05

  I want to hear it.

• 4:02Speaker 03

  Yanni?

• 4:04Speaker 03

  Steve and I just returned from Illinois.

• 4:09Speaker 03

  I just did a roast episode. I was watching the edit and I said that the Montana State University Bobcats pounded the Illinois whoever. You put the S on there. Yeah. You know, for whatever reason, growing up, like I just said that a lot. It was later in life when I was finally corrected and it's still, it's just a hard habit to break. Mm hmm. For me. Anyways, we were in Illinois hunting turkeys with the winners. Actually not the winner. We hunted with the brothers in law. Mm hmm. Of the winner of last year's TRCP. Very convoluted. He had a baby and couldn't make it. Yeah. Or was his wife was about to have a baby and couldn't be gone. And so he sent his two brothers in law, which was very nice of him. And I felt like,

• 4:54Speaker 03

  what a great thing for all three of those brothers to be so lucky to marry into that group of people and be like, oh, you're my new brother in law? And oh, you like to hunt a lot? I mean, not everybody gets that. Yeah. Uh, anyways, amazing hunt. Quite possibly the best day of eastern turkey hunting of experience. Would you say yours was equally as good? We had a hell of a day one day. Very interesting day. Yeah. Very interesting day. Lots of birds playing ball, as we like to say. Mm hmm. Yeah. Made me feel like a real expert turkey caller. Hmm. Um, are we going to go into talking about any of the details of the hunting?

• 5:31Speaker 07

  Did you get any of those like 30 pounders?

• 5:34Speaker 03

  No, they weren't that huge.

• 5:35Speaker 07

  No?

• 5:36Speaker 03

  No. They're big, but they weren't huge. We had a bunch of scales that didn't have batteries in them. And so, uh, it's hard to weigh them. I felt like I had a lifetime of turkey experiences in one day. Probably the best, you know, like, you know, turkeys like to strut on railroad tracks. So there's this group of turkeys in this place is like, it's nothing but railroad tracks. It's like railroad tracks. Cause we're hunting along a valley and the tracks go down the valley. Trains are a major, major part of hunting here. Mm hmm. Turkey strutting on the tracks. And it leads to the question, like, what do they do when the train comes? So like you get all excited thinking the train's going to come and they're going to go flying way off, you know? When the train comes, they step out of the way. I mean, they step out of the way.

• 6:21Speaker 03

  The train going by and they're like, like. And listen. They just go down the embankment and stand there. These are.

• 6:30Speaker 06

  Slow ass Montana trains, like the one I deal with, almost on a daily basis that you feel like you could just about run next to and grab the ladder and jump on to. The, like, I stepped out of the way for a train and when I was hunting with Andy, we took a video. I mean, that sucker was humming, like, like a solid sixty miles an hour. Just like, the cars are just like, half a second, you know?

• 6:56Speaker 07

  You know how you've talked about flies seeing a hand coming at them? Maybe the turkeys, it's like that.

• 7:00Speaker 03

  They're so fast, yeah. They're so fast. It seems slow to them. Lot of turkey hunting experiences.

• 7:07Speaker 06

  Lot of turkey hunting. Yeah, it was, it was cool. They played ball. Uh, but, uh, we just want to give everybody a heads up that we're gonna have the, um, time period when you can buy raffle tickets, um,

• 7:18Speaker 03

  For next year's?

• 7:19Speaker 06

  For next year's for the twenty twenty seven hunt. And I believe we're working on securing the same farm.

• 7:25Speaker 03

  I think that if he's up for it, and he said, let me know if you want to do this again, if that host is up for it, that will be the home.

• 7:35Speaker 06

  Yep.

• 7:35Speaker 03

  Both of the winners got their birds.

• 7:38Speaker 06

  Yep.

• 7:39Speaker 03

  Fairly quickly. They both, my guy got his first ever turkey. Uh, my buddy Andy came out and chefed, chefed for it.

• 7:50Speaker 07

  That right there makes it worth it.

• 7:52Speaker 03

  Phenomenal food. We had, uh, smoked king salmon, mule deer, uh, we had spot prawns from Alaska. We had like mule deer kielbasa. Our host one night brought over ribeyes. We had razor clams.

• 8:10Speaker 06

  He did that thing with the, uh, we talked about this before on a show where you velvet the meat with the baking soda, you know? And then he deep fried it and did like a Asian-y kind of a dish. So good. And I wonder if we could sell more, uh, tickets to the raffle if it was like you guys and then more of us also come along too.

• 8:32Speaker 07

  I think so.

• 8:33Speaker 03

  Yeah, but I don't know that it's, uh,

• 8:37Speaker 03

  it's, I don't know, it's not an infinite turkey spot.

• 8:40Speaker 06

  Hmm.

• 8:41Speaker 07

  Did Andy get to hunt?

• 8:42Speaker 03

  Well, that, we should probably.

• 8:43Speaker 07

  Did Andy hunt?

• 8:43Speaker 03

  Andy got in there. Good. That's, listen.

• 8:46Speaker 05

  I actually.

• 8:47Speaker 03

  You want to hear like a lo- long story.

• 8:52Speaker 05

  No, no, because it has a, th- this is, there's something to be learned from Andy's story. And this is what it is. But I'll tell you that first and then you tell me if we should tell uh the story. He, he basically missed a bunch of turkeys and we can just say, say it. That's it. I can tell you about all the hunts. How many is a bunch? He missed. Three different.

• 9:12Speaker 03

  Are we talking like missed opportunities, missed shots?

• 9:15Speaker 05

  And the missed opportunity.

• 9:17Speaker 03

  Friends with him. I've been friends with him since we were like in school.

• 9:22Speaker 05

  Oh, I'm looking forward to hearing his version at the shack this summer. He's still in that place of turkey hunting. When that gobbler comes over the ridge and there's his head and all you can see is his head and you have two seconds, maybe three to kill him. He's not processing all of that fast enough to go, there he is, bang and kill him. He goes, oh, okay, turkey, okay. One more step and then I'll pull it and then the turkey's gone, you know? But here's the deal. After all of that, we get back, we're rushing, it's the last morning, we gotta get to the airport. And I'm like, we gotta shoot this gun, because he's shooting my gun. And I'm gonna shoot the gun, because I want to see if my gun's off. So I set up a target thirty yards, pull the trigger, smoke it. It's got a red dot on it. Yeah, red dot.

• 10:08Speaker 05

  And uh, so I, I got this box that I, oh, unfolded, so it's super long. I just drew a bunch of black circles on it. And the way I put up against the tree, one is like thirty inches off the ground and then other black circles like at ground level. I said, alright, sit down and shoot that top, top circle. He shoots it. The whole pattern's on the bottom circle, like a li- like at least two feet low. And I didn't have him repeat it, because he's shooting TS, my TSS ammo at twelve bucks every time he pulls the trigger. And uh, but the best I can figure, you guys can, you know, give me your opinion on this. But I know that with a pistol, when I start missing the target, you know what I'm doing?

• 10:48Speaker 05

  Is I'm pushing into that gun and I'm missing low, because I'm, I'm like anticipating a recoil, so I'm pushing the gun and the, pushing the barrel down. And that's why you miss low. Cause usually like if someone that has a real bad flinch or a jerk, right? They're like pulling the gun left or right. Like a righty usually is gonna jerk it right, lefty jerks it left or maybe up a little bit. But I feel like here he was sort of preloading.

• 11:14Speaker 03

  Countering the recoil.

• 11:15Speaker 05

  Counting the recoil and before he got the trigger to break, his gun was, you know, at thirty yards, he was two feet low.

• 11:25Speaker 06

  Should you have him aim two feet above the head of the turkey?

• 11:27Speaker 05

  Well, I mean, had we gone right back out, yeah, we maybe would have had to do that.

• 11:31Speaker 03

  He didn't troubleshoot these misses till after the fact.

• 11:33Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 11:34Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 11:34Speaker 03

  Phenomenal show. Phenomenal.

• 11:37Speaker 05

  Let's, I wanna wrap it up with this. I feel bad because I think about all the people out there that have had experiences like that and without diagnosing that, their friends just go, you're a shitty shot bud. And they believe it and no one like fixes it and they go through their life being like, oh man, I'm a shitty shot. Maybe they quit hunting or, or whatever it is, but like.

• 12:02Speaker 03

  Then they're put a name to the problem.

• 12:04Speaker 05

  Yeah, like it's fixable, right? Like do the old thing where you get your buddy and then he either loads or doesn't load the shotgun for you and then hands it to you and it has you shoot at the target and then when he gives you one that's empty and you know, you pull the trigger and go ah and jump, then you know, you know, you got a little bit of a flinch.

• 12:23Speaker 03

  Last thought about Illinois turkey hunting is that one o'clock cutoff. You gotta quit at one.

• 12:28Speaker 05

  Yep.

• 12:29Speaker 03

  Just changes it. It's humane. It's more humane for humans.

• 12:34Speaker 05

  Yep.

• 12:34Speaker 03

  Cause you get.

• 12:35Speaker 05

  You get a nice nap in.

• 12:37Speaker 07

  I used to be against it, but now I think I'd like it because you just concentrate all your effort in half a day and not worry about the rest.

• 12:46Speaker 03

  I'll tell you what, from the time it gets light to the time it gets dark.

• 12:50Speaker 05

  Yeah. But like you said, often if you.

• 12:52Speaker 04

  You're hunting the whole day like that. You do come in, you take a little break.

• 12:57Speaker 03

  Your mind.

• 12:58Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, for sure. You gotta use toothpicks to keep your eyelids up.

• 13:01Speaker 07

  At ten o'clock at night.

• 13:03Speaker 03

  Supposed to be.

• 13:03Speaker 07

  Brutal.

• 13:04Speaker 04

  Oh, no, we were we were at that at like eight thirty nine every night. It was beautiful. Anyway, so keep keep an eye and an ear out for when we start talking about next year's TRCP turkey hunt. It's gonna be fun and phenomenal.

• 13:18Speaker 03

  All right, Jordan Sellers, what's new in your your neck of the woods there, uh, Jordan?

• 13:23Speaker 05

  Oh, man, well, well, I'm glad you asked, Steve.

• 13:28Speaker 05

  Blood Trail season two is out now. Uh, first episode is out. We're gonna be releasing them every Thursday over the next eight weeks. So if you didn't catch it last season, uh, Blood Trails is our true crime podcast. About hunters and anglers. So we cover stories where people outside get in uh, some pretty serious trouble. So we got a pretty interesting lineup this season from all around the country. We have um, people who were killed, murdered. People who disappeared without a trace. Um, so I think, I think, I hope people uh, enjoy it and tune in.

• 14:04Speaker 03

  I thought of you today and I was reading an article about a diver. That just found a family that had been missing since the fifties.

• 14:11Speaker 05

  Oh, man. In a lake or?

• 14:14Speaker 03

  They went out to cut Christmas tree boughs to make wreaths. Outside of Portland. And a diver just found their car. They had kinda known a little bit about what had happened. Because they found a couple of the family members dead in the river, like in fifty nine or something like that. So, and the car had never turned up. So one theory was that the car went into the river. But there was like a big manhunt and a big search and now a diver. Found the family car and more human remains.

• 14:53Speaker 05

  That's wild.

• 14:53Speaker 03

  Made me think about you.

• 14:54Speaker 05

  Yeah, well.

• 14:55Speaker 03

  Isn't that funny that that's how people think about you now?

• 14:57Speaker 05

  I know, I know. You'd be, you'd see my inbox.

• 15:01Speaker 03

  The worst news I read and I'll think, oh, Jordan.

• 15:03Speaker 05

  Jordan Sellers, I bet he'd like to hear about this. It's great.

• 15:07Speaker 03

  That catches fancy.

• 15:08Speaker 05

  It's great.

• 15:09Speaker 07

  In uh, TV, it's kind of universally accepted.

• 15:11Speaker 06

  Did that season three of a show was the best. That's the peak.

• 15:15Speaker 03

  I didn't know that.

• 15:16Speaker 06

  Where your characters are established, your storylines are colliding, just the whole thing is sort of matured.

• 15:21Speaker 03

  You haven't had to recycle anything yet?

• 15:23Speaker 06

  Season three is the pinnacle. So as good as Blood Trails is in season two right now.

• 15:29Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 15:29Speaker 06

  Season three, it gets even better.

• 15:32Speaker 03

  I usually feel like by season three on TV shows, I don't watch serial shows because of this reason. I can start smelling them writing it. I can, I can smell them writing it.

• 15:43Speaker 05

  Like they're predictable?

• 15:45Speaker 03

  I can smell them trying to keep it going.

• 15:47Speaker 06

  Okay.

• 15:47Speaker 03

  But like it's, they're past the original idea.

• 15:50Speaker 06

  Hmm. Not a whiff of that in Blood Trails though.

• 15:53Speaker 03

  No.

• 15:53Speaker 06

  No.

• 15:53Speaker 03

  It's not a serial drama.

• 15:55Speaker 06

  Yeah. Phil, that's, that's like a thing, right? Oh, for sure. I don't necessarily agree. Like as most, a lot of my favorite TV shows, I think their best seasons are like four and five. But, but I, but I do think season three is, that's a pretty good theory.

• 16:06Speaker 07

  That's something to think about though for the audience. One case and you do like 20 episodes on one case.

• 16:12Speaker 05

  So we are this summer planning a three, a three or four, we haven't decided yet, mini series.

• 16:18Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 16:19Speaker 05

  On one case.

• 16:20Speaker 03

  Really?

• 16:20Speaker 05

  Wow. Yeah.

• 16:21Speaker 03

  Yeah. Is it about when my fish got stolen?

• 16:23Speaker 05

  You're familiar with it. No, no, we're gonna do, uh, and we talked to them actually, these guys who got stuck over in Turks and Caicos because.

• 16:33Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 16:33Speaker 05

  They had ammo in their luggage. We did, but we interviewed them when they were still stuck on the island. So they had to be kind of careful about what they shared and what they didn't. Now they're home, you know, spoiler alert, I guess.

• 16:45Speaker 03

  Hold, there's enough there for three episodes?

• 16:48Speaker 07

  Yeah, that doesn't seem possible.

• 16:50Speaker 05

  I talked to the guy who was in prison out over there for eight months. This prison was declared by the UN to be a human rights violation.

• 17:00Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 17:01Speaker 05

  I talked to him for five hours. It's, there's some crazy stories from a Turks and Caicos prison, as you might imagine. So there's, there's plenty there for a.

• 17:11Speaker 03

  I'll trust your instincts.

• 17:13Speaker 05

  I.

• 17:13Speaker 03

  And your, your new season's off to a strong start.

• 17:16Speaker 05

  Yes, yes. Episode one is out. Um, it's about a hunter up near Helena, so this neck of the woods, who, uh, was murdered.

• 17:24Speaker 03

  Chopped up too.

• 17:25Speaker 05

  Yeah, back in 2011 and his remains were found in two separate locations. Um, and so lots, you know, that, that story is a lot of twists and turns in that one. You think you know what's happening and then it's a. You're not expecting what's about to happen.

• 17:42Speaker 07

  Some real characters.

• 17:43Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 17:44Speaker 07

  My daughter and I listened over the course of the last 24 hours and we enjoyed it. It was a good episode.

• 17:49Speaker 05

  Good. Yeah. Thank you.

• 17:51Speaker 03

  All right, Phil, corrections. Corrections. Corrections. The winner of correction this week will win a Moltre Edge 3 Pro Trail Camera Plus, and here's the important part. Plus a one-year subscription. That's what matters.

• 18:07Speaker 07

  Man, I got mine recently. I didn't even know I could do this. I just need to get better at knowing my products. I got mine rigged up now than the ones that I have, the new ones, where it only takes a picture of a deer or a turkey.

• 18:19Speaker 03

  Yeah. Have you turned off, have you turned off squares yet? That's interesting.

• 18:23Speaker 07

  Oh, yeah. Yeah.

• 18:24Speaker 05

  What if you got, um, trespassers walking around?

• 18:27Speaker 03

  Yeah, what if a chupacabra comes by?

• 18:29Speaker 07

  Well.

• 18:29Speaker 03

  What if a Bigfoot comes by?

• 18:30Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 18:31Speaker 03

  I, that's why I don't, I like the feature in theory, but in practice, do you really want to tell your camera? If something earth shattering, if there was a setting like, like deer, turkey, or something crazy.

• 18:45Speaker 06

  Yeah, you could miss one of the coolest things. You're like an alligator walks by.

• 18:49Speaker 03

  Yeah. Or like a chupacabra with an alligator.

• 18:51Speaker 07

  Oh, my God.

• 18:54Speaker 07

  Yeah, I guess I'm taking a chance in this, missing that.

• 18:58Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's a, that is, that, then even how you can turn off squares. There's a grid.

• 19:06Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 19:06Speaker 03

  And if there's like areas that are always giving you false trips, like if you got like birds fly by and trip, you can be like, well, I'm gonna shut those squares off. But what if a chupacabra comes through those squares?

• 19:16Speaker 05

  Flying chupacabra.

• 19:17Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 19:17Speaker 05

  On the contrary.

• 19:18Speaker 03

  Through them.

• 19:19Speaker 06

  What if you see Steve walking through there?

• 19:21Speaker 05

  A naked old man walked by. Now Yanni doesn't have to subject himself to seeing that.

• 19:26Speaker 07

  Yeah, that's true.

• 19:26Speaker 06

  There might be some things you don't want to see. You won't be able to unsee.

• 19:31Speaker 05

  It's an eldritch horror.

• 19:32Speaker 03

  So the winner of, uh, the winner of this week's trip, uh, correction of the week will, can sort through these conundrums on their own when they get their camera. Whether or not you want to get specific, well, with integrated AI technology, or whether you want to just see every crazy naked old man and chupacabra out there, uh, it's up to you. Um, okay, this is one of those ones we we got a lot of corrections on on the subject of the Savo man eaters. These two lions that kept eating a bunch of people. So many people, in fact, they shut down construction of a railroad. We looked at a great painting where the lions are eating a dude's foot. Um, that was a great painting. And a lot of people wrote in.

• 20:15Speaker 03

  They think that the lions, I said 140 people.

• 20:19Speaker 07

  Well, that's what was in the book, the original book.

• 20:21Speaker 03

  It seems like the lions probably ate closer than 40 people, closer to 40 people. There's a couple little interesting, and again, a correction can be like missing information. Couple interesting tidbits. When render pest came through Africa and started killing, like almost wiped out Cape Buffalo, right? So this is also during the render pest epidemic when prey species were in massive decline.

• 20:47Speaker 07

  Do you want to explain render pest real quick? You should.

• 20:51Speaker 03

  Uh, I know it's a it's a cattle disease that that a bunch of that a bunch of animals in Africa caught when it came in on cattle.

• 20:58Speaker 07

  Okay.

• 20:59Speaker 03

  Um, but no, I can't, the show can't go on forever.

• 21:03Speaker 07

  Well, I just, I, I, that detail, like, I think people would have not understood what was going on.

• 21:08Speaker 03

  A disease came in on cattle and wiped out tons of African wildlife, including was was devastating for Cape Buffalo. So these lions were potentially low on food because of the render pest epidemic, killing all the wildlife. They probably had some dental injuries. That's supposed, and here's the other thing, is that while they were working on the, um, railroad and also just because of cultural practices, there were more human corpses out on the landscape in those days than there are today. So a lion could get a taste for eating folks. Just from that, it'd be like if we, you don't buy that?

• 21:50Speaker 07

  No, then why wouldn't they just look for corpses? They wouldn't be like, oh, I'm gonna go get like a live human. I don't, I'm just not buy like.

• 21:57Speaker 03

  Sure. All right. Brody's not buying that part. Either way, that's a correction. The, the meat of the correction being forty, not one forty.

• 22:08Speaker 06

  Yeah, and they, I read some of the studies that he sent and they basically are looking because they have the remains of these lions. They're looking at their hair and bone collagen and they can look at sort of the chemical signatures of their diet and they show, like, you could see like month by month how, how much more of their diet was humans.

• 22:32Speaker 03

  Oh, really?

• 22:33Speaker 06

  Yeah. There's one of the lions, uh, said like in the final months of eighteen ninety-eight, one of the lions peaked at roughly thirty percent of its diet as humans.

• 22:45Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 22:47Speaker 03

  Ye, hmm. Uh, okay. I brought up that hunters, I, I was saying that firearm enthusiasts, shooters could start a class action lawsuit and sue the government for making suppressors hard to get. And the class action lawsuit would be that the government made us all go deaf. I was just trying this out.

• 23:13Speaker 03

  I wasn't like, you know, I mean, I wasn't, I hadn't taken steps to initiate this class action lawsuit, but I was musing about the class action lawsuit. An attorney rode in and he basically is saying, good luck with that.

• 23:28Speaker 03

  Hearing protection is widely available. The possibility of hearing loss is widely documented. You don't have to go shoot your gun.

• 23:41Speaker 03

  It's kind of your problem. He thinks that, uh, this, this, this, this class action lawsuit is doomed to fail.

• 23:50Speaker 07

  Um, interesting conversation we had earlier in regards to this. One of our employees who is in the military.

• 23:59Speaker 07

  Um, there was a company that provided hearing protection to everyone. They all, and, and this guy said they all still ended up with hearing damage. Despite having hearing.

• 24:12Speaker 06

  So.

• 24:12Speaker 03

  And there was some liability on the part of the manufacturer.

• 24:16Speaker 06

  Despite the fact that hearing protection is widely available, that doesn't necessarily mean it's going to prevent hearing loss.

• 24:22Speaker 03

  He says, the actual cause of the hearing loss is that we made decisions to fire guns without wearing readily available hearing protection. Since hearing protection is readily available at nearly every sportsman's shop, each of us had ample opportunity to prevent hearing loss. I'm not writing this because I oppose the idea. I'm writing this with institutional knowledge of the legal world. And would hate to see someone waste their money or time exploring such a farce. Farce. He gets mean.

• 24:53Speaker 06

  Yeah, when your lawyer tells you.

• 24:54Speaker 03

  Asquire.

• 24:56Speaker 06

  Your lawyer says your case is a farce. You're in trouble. If you decide to pursue this, though, Steve, you'll have a lot of backers. I don't know if this crossed your desk, but you talking about this went viral on TikTok. Uh, got half a million views, 20,000 likes.

• 25:11Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 25:11Speaker 06

  So people are like, yeah, that that's Steve Rinella. We could, we could win this thing.

• 25:16Speaker 03

  I do a lot of social media.

• 25:17Speaker 06

  This guy's got a great lawyer name, though.

• 25:19Speaker 03

  Yeah, Esquire.

• 25:20Speaker 06

  Yeah. Dylan T. Newkirk, Esquire.

• 25:25Speaker 06

  Alrighty, our next correction comes for me.

• 25:31Speaker 06

  He writes in, uh, I'm a ballistician who specializes in small caliber internal ballistics. It's a fascinating field.

• 25:38Speaker 03

  Are you just gonna seriously just breeze past that he's a ballistician?

• 25:42Speaker 06

  Cause that's cool. I didn't know it was a thing. No, it's great. No, that's why I'm reading this. That's why I'm reading his introduction word for word.

• 25:49Speaker 03

  I'm a ballistician.

• 25:52Speaker 06

  Yeah. Like you want to talk about bona fides. And I like his specialty in small caliber internal ballistics.

• 26:01Speaker 03

  The hell's he?

• 26:01Speaker 06

  Yeah. Internal ballistics is from the ignition to the muzzle, which is fascinating.

• 26:09Speaker 03

  He says it's. Tell the truth, you think? You think he's lying?

• 26:11Speaker 06

  He says it's a fascinating field, which is in general poorly understood by most gun owners.

• 26:16Speaker 03

  His name's Giaf.

• 26:17Speaker 06

  Yeah, I like this guy. Uh, he, he, I, in that episode, when we were discussing suppressors, I sort of offhandedly at the end made a very dry joke that there's someone out there working on quiet gunpowder. And so he wrote in to say that that's impossible.

• 26:35Speaker 06

  He says, "The noise generated by a gunshot comes from two things, the rapid expansion of gases and the supersonic crack of the projectiles that breaks the sound barrier. There, it really isn't a way to make an inherently quieter chemical propellant as it's the gas expansion and subsequent release of pressure that makes the noise. It's essentially a very high-pressure version of popping a balloon." And then he goes on, uh, he, he goes on to say that even air guns are loud. If, when you get up to the larger air rifles, the most powerful air guns can do about 6,000 PSI at the chamber. Your average 6.5 Creedmoor has a chamber pressure of 10 times that and two to three times that at the muzzle, depending on powder charge, bullet weight, and barrel length.

• 27:18Speaker 06

  The only way to mitigate this is to use a suppressor to slow down gas expansion. Now you're just letting go of the balloon instead of popping it, which is a great, great illustration. Aside from that, make sure you're using ammunition that gets full powder burn before the bullet exits the tube. Short barrels, especially on ARs, are notorious for being many flashbangs as the last of the powder charge is burned externally. It really doesn't make it quieter, but it does cut down on how concussive the shot is, and micro TBIs are cumulative. So.

• 27:49Speaker 07

  What's a TBI?

• 27:51Speaker 06

  Traumatic brain injury.

• 27:52Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 27:53Speaker 07

  Oh.

• 27:54Speaker 06

  There is the study, there, there was a story in the Times like a couple of months ago about how, um, how much brain damage is done, like, shooting pistols indoors.

• 28:05Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 28:06Speaker 06

  And it was, I mean, I don't remember any details.

• 28:08Speaker 07

  Like from the concussion?

• 28:09Speaker 06

  Yeah, just like micro concussions hitting you all the time.

• 28:12Speaker 03

  See, I don't do that. That must be why I was smart.

• 28:14Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 28:15Speaker 07

  Hmm. It seems like this guy's telling you you made a really bad joke.

• 28:17Speaker 06

  Yeah, yeah, I, I know. I re-watched it to make sure that I.

• 28:24Speaker 03

  You did?

• 28:25Speaker 06

  The delivery was.

• 28:26Speaker 03

  God, Randall's sensitive.

• 28:27Speaker 06

  Well, it's just like.

• 28:28Speaker 03

  Let's go to the vote.

• 28:29Speaker 06

  I was like, how, how bad was my delivery that that wasn't understood as a joke? But nonetheless, I'm glad this guy wrote in because I like his, I like his style.

• 28:36Speaker 03

  Well.

• 28:37Speaker 06

  I'm voting for him because I like it that he's a ballastician.

• 28:40Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 28:41Speaker 07

  I like that he's an old man who still puts two spaces.

• 28:43Speaker 05

  Between period and capitalized.

• 28:45Speaker 07

  That's great. I'm glad you caught that Spencer.

• 28:47Speaker 05

  Yeah, I always appreciate seeing that. Cause you know they.

• 28:52Speaker 05

  No, I'm just saying I like that. This person learned to type on a typewriter.

• 28:55Speaker 06

  I'm not voting him for that reason.

• 28:57Speaker 03

  Okay, uh, okay.

• 28:59Speaker 06

  Beacon tell us to do that?

• 29:01Speaker 03

  Okay, corrections. The vote, the vote. Savo man eaters.

• 29:07Speaker 03

  Three votes.

• 29:08Speaker 05

  Oh, okay.

• 29:11Speaker 03

  Class action lawsuit. Not gonna work is what it's.

• 29:14Speaker 07

  Zero votes.

• 29:15Speaker 03

  Zero votes.

• 29:17Speaker 03

  Randall being dumb.

• 29:20Speaker 07

  Oh, Randall's delivery.

• 29:21Speaker 03

  Clear winner.

• 29:24Speaker 03

  Clear winner.

• 29:26Speaker 06

  At first when I read, cause his subject line is low volume powder. And I was like, man, this is gonna be really interesting. I thought he was talking about like the volume of powder in a case.

• 29:35Speaker 03

  Oh, gotcha.

• 29:36Speaker 06

  And then I realized it was about my bad joke.

• 29:38Speaker 03

  Yeah. Uh, enjoy your camera, um, and your subscription. Multi-camera subscription. Thank you very much.

• 29:47Speaker 02

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• 30:17Speaker 03

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• 31:02Speaker 03

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• 31:46Speaker 03

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• 32:16Speaker 03

  A couple of listener emails. Guy wrote in, um, did his wife makes him go to Greek ortho? See, this is terrible, but I'm gonna read it anyways.

• 32:28Speaker 03

  He's Roman Catholic and he says, when I, when we go to my church, you know, church service is 45 minutes.

• 32:34Speaker 05

  He's home for kickoff.

• 32:35Speaker 03

  He says his wife is Greek Orthodox and he says they get a little carried away.

• 32:42Speaker 03

  He's been listening to the podcast in there because he's got these new hearing aids that Bluetooth in, so no one knows what he's doing. They don't even know that he, they don't think he's listening to anything. It's piping in on his hearing aids.

• 32:53Speaker 05

  Hero.

• 32:54Speaker 03

  What he says now and then, he's in there smirking.

• 32:57Speaker 07

  Say this guy's name or his wife's gonna find out. No, no, no, he told his wife.

• 33:02Speaker 06

  Oh, he told.

• 33:02Speaker 03

  That might have given it away.

• 33:03Speaker 06

  Yeah, he gave him, don't say his name, cause then the preacher might get it.

• 33:05Speaker 07

  Yeah, no, he confessed to his wife, since it was obvious I had no painful expressions on my face. It was smiling from time to time. We don't want to get in trouble at church. No, no.

• 33:15Speaker 03

  Two hour, two hour service, two hour service to that church.

• 33:18Speaker 06

  He felt like he needed to have more painful expressions. That's what he's saying, okay.

• 33:23Speaker 03

  No.

• 33:24Speaker 05

  He didn't have his usual scowl.

• 33:26Speaker 07

  Be even worse if it was a two hour service with a gobbler right outside the church.

• 33:30Speaker 03

  I know, and then you couldn't hunt in Mississippi because it'd be against the law, as covered on the news show. Um, another guy wrote in, just to make it real quick, he's been struggling with doing with his remains. I've talked about that I would like my remains hauled out in the mountains where they could be eaten by a bear. He had an idea, which is very interesting, because the problem with my idea is then you gotta task your family members with like, care, like carrying your carcass around.

• 33:53Speaker 07

  Yeah, and then probably becoming a future episode of Blood Trails.

• 33:57Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 33:57Speaker 03

  His idea, you just get cremated. And then mix it in and put it at a black bear bait station.

• 34:07Speaker 03

  So that way you can be eaten by bears very conveniently.

• 34:10Speaker 07

  Yeah, I wonder if you went the green burial route? And you went through that paperwork or whatever? And then instead of doing the burial, you just ended up at the bait station kinda hole like you want to be? Like if that would pass.

• 34:26Speaker 03

  But if you did that, and then a dude killed a bear at that bait station, and then he learned that he ate you, he's gonna be not happy.

• 34:34Speaker 07

  Yeah. That's okay.

• 34:36Speaker 03

  Yeah, whatever.

• 34:38Speaker 06

  They have, they have little trees you can buy where you add like the compost to it. They're supposed to be cremated remains, so then you're like growing that tree. And then someone could put a tree stand in it someday.

• 34:49Speaker 03

  That's a good idea.

• 34:50Speaker 06

  It's an option.

• 34:51Speaker 03

  Lots of things do with your body.

• 34:52Speaker 05

  I talked, I talked to a guy, uh, up in Maine, a canine handler for search and rescue. He told me that their dogs can smell.

• 35:03Speaker 05

  They they smelled some like bear scat or coyote scat. And they they signaled on it because they could smell the human that they'd eaten.

• 35:12Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 35:13Speaker 05

  So it had gone through the digestive tract. And the dogs could still smell it in that scat, which I thought was pretty.

• 35:19Speaker 03

  Was that covered in blood trails?

• 35:20Speaker 05

  Episode two coming out this Thursday.

• 35:22Speaker 03

  Oh, good gracious. There you go.

• 35:24Speaker 07

  This guy's a pro.

• 35:25Speaker 05

  There you go.

• 35:25Speaker 07

  Oh, man.

• 35:26Speaker 03

  Slipped in.

• 35:27Speaker 07

  That's gonna be good, but I, you know what? You guys are just commenting on how good his idea is. He has a question at the end of his email. His question is that he knows.

• 35:38Speaker 03

  I was so blown away by the idea.

• 35:39Speaker 07

  He knows that there's gonna be other critters coming in there to eat his remains like raccoons. And he doesn't like raccoons for some reason. And so he wants to know how to keep raccoons and other pests away from the bear bait and only let the bears eat it.

• 35:54Speaker 03

  I don't know.

• 35:56Speaker 06

  Hang that stuff up where like hanging it in a way that you can't.

• 36:01Speaker 07

  I say you shouldn't be against the raccoons. They're critters too. Let them eat some of you and spread you around the woods a little bit, you know, like what's the problem with the raccoons?

• 36:11Speaker 03

  Just give it or give it to clay and have clay put it and you'll have eight bears eating it. Yeah, but what happens if the raccoons really get after it? And you're like.

• 36:21Speaker 05

  Clean it out.

• 36:22Speaker 03

  You're like, oh, what was the deal with so and so is like, oh, well, his final wish was to be eaten by bears. Raccoons. And then you're like, well, he was mostly eaten by raccoons, but one bear did come in, you know? Take some of the romance out of it. I think that if you go a thin, like you get your body back. And you put it.

• 36:44Speaker 07

  The ashes.

• 36:44Speaker 03

  At a low ratio or ground up. However you do it, if you could get it ground up. And mix it in a lot and just make sure you got a lot of bait. Everybody's gonna partake. You're gonna have ravens flying around with you in them. Crows flying around with you in them.

• 37:01Speaker 06

  Which is pretty romantic if you're.

• 37:02Speaker 05

  Just going everywhere.

• 37:03Speaker 03

  Yeah, you're all you're you're MISO predators, big.

• 37:08Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's great.

• 37:14Speaker 05

  Etiquette.

• 37:14Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 37:15Speaker 05

  Um, okay, turkey hunting. I exclusively hunt public land in Virginia. Uh, and a lot on the national forest, a lot of the national forest out here, but right up against private.

• 37:27Speaker 05

  Owned by people build little hunting cabins. Last springer found a great spot that butted up against private. There's clearly marked public access. I'm not on any one else's land. It's right off the main road, went into hunt it, opening morning, got there really early. Not long before gobbling time, another truck pulled in. So he must have sit still been like out getting ready in the parking lot or whatever. Um, it was an old timer. He was friendly, but said he owned the adjacent private land and he parks his truck there during the season. To deter other hunters from.

• 37:59Speaker 03

  Sure, yeah.

• 38:00Speaker 05

  Yes, um, his friend picks him up and takes him somewhere else.

• 38:05Speaker 03

  Just just to help people connect the dots here. Cre- he's creating the appearance that someone's already there.

• 38:10Speaker 05

  This is not something that I've never heard of before.

• 38:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, this old man did not invent this.

• 38:15Speaker 07

  Oh, I'm sure someone in this room has done this.

• 38:16Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 38:17Speaker 05

  Maybe. Um, he has to exchange numbers and said, would love to know if you get one. I hunted it anyways. Um, that day and killed a nice gobbler. Now, after him telling me he's trying to keep people out of there. I wasn't really keen on letting him know that I got one. A year later, the day before opening day this year. After having not heard from this guy in over a year, wouldn't know him from Adam, he texts me asking where I'm going in the morning. Not as though he'd like to tag along, but just wants to know where where I'm going. Um, I know I'm not entitled to let him know that I'm hunting the land adjacent to his. I get sharing info, so we're both not pulling up to hunt the same spot.

• 39:01Speaker 05

  But like he he's not buying that that's where this guy's going with it. He's just like trying to keep tabs on this guy. Um, I don't appreciate another hunter trying to keep track of where I'm going. I don't really trust him either. Since he's trying to keep people out of public land. I'm kind of at a loss what to do. Should I just not respond? Should I tell him to go kick rocks? Should I just tell him the general area I'm going to?

• 39:25Speaker 03

  Hmm hmm.

• 39:27Speaker 07

  I would not respond.

• 39:28Speaker 03

  Eh.

• 39:30Speaker 07

  Well, maybe you should respond because you never know when you might need to get on that guy's land to like, retrieve a bird or who knows, you could get in a pickle and need his help or something. I don't know.

• 39:41Speaker 03

  I'd just text him two days later and say, sorry, didn't see this.

• 39:44Speaker 07

  Got one.

• 39:45Speaker 03

  Got one and then send him a smiling picture of you in a different place.

• 39:51Speaker 07

  It's a tough one.

• 39:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's a tough one. I can't like.

• 39:52Speaker 07

  It's not tough. There's so many right answers. It's really comes down to how he's perceiving the whole situation.

• 39:57Speaker 03

  No, no, I'm not saying like how to be like, I'm not saying how to be friendly. I'm saying, how would you handle like, like, would you share with him? You know, would you share with them to say, you know, I'm not sure where I'm going to be hunting. I've been thinking though, that the move of trying to create the feeling that someone else is there doesn't sit well with me.

• 40:18Speaker 07

  Right. Yes.

• 40:20Speaker 03

  Which is like, is that a thing that you need to say?

• 40:24Speaker 07

  That's the rub, right?

• 40:25Speaker 07

  The thing is, is if you go like aggro on the guy, he's probably going to come back at you aggro and like, sees your truck parked there and then he's got a pro, you know what I mean? Oh, I wasn't gonna suggest you go aggro at all. I would say use it to your advantage.

• 40:42Speaker 07

  And just become buddies with him and be like, oh, because you're doing this and I'm in on it.

• 40:47Speaker 03

  Mm hmm.

• 40:47Speaker 07

  Like I sort of, you know, I'm, I'm in on the thing.

• 40:51Speaker 03

  So you'd say, hey, partner, I'm hunting back in our little spot. What can we do to make sure no one else does?

• 40:59Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 41:00Speaker 03

  Would you mind parking the truck in that spot again?

• 41:06Speaker 03

  That's what you do.

• 41:07Speaker 07

  I'm just saying that there's options, you know? Um, but, but like the detail about this guy using a, a, a vehicle to keep people out of a spot isn't.

• 41:18Speaker 03

  But he's not keeping them out.

• 41:19Speaker 07

  No, not at all.

• 41:20Speaker 03

  It's subterfuge. It's, it's subterfuge.

• 41:23Speaker 07

  It, it's trying to persuade them not to go in there. For sure. And I mean, I've hunted spots like that. And when there's a truck already there, you're not going to stop. You're going to go to the next pull off.

• 41:35Speaker 03

  There's a, there's a, there's a mindset, like for instance, um, you know, I've, I've friends in Alaska that advocate on having a very brightly colored tent. They like a bright colored tent.

• 41:51Speaker 03

  Why? They don't want to be hidden. They want people to be like, ah, damn it.

• 41:56Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 41:57Speaker 03

  There's dudes down there hunting. Right?

• 42:00Speaker 07

  From the air, you can see, you can.

• 42:01Speaker 03

  Yeah. So if they said, well, what I do is I set brightly colored tents all over the place. They'd be like, is it, is it wrong?

• 42:12Speaker 03

  Or is it just the, you know?

• 42:13Speaker 07

  A dick move.

• 42:15Speaker 03

  Yeah, or just a move, a move. Like, is parking, he's not, if he was putting up a sign that says no trespassing, that's flat out immoral. That's immoral.

• 42:23Speaker 06

  And illegal, I think, in a lot of places.

• 42:26Speaker 03

  Parking a car to create the illusion of pressure. I don't, I don't know that it's immoral. It's just like, um, it's a little move. It's a move. I don't think it's immoral.

• 42:40Speaker 07

  I think it is. I think there's a, there's a, there's a.

• 42:45Speaker 03

  Spencer? I don't, I, I'm not saying I like it. I just don't think it's immoral.

• 42:49Speaker 07

  He's going through a lot. He's having his buddy pick him up. Like, he's going through some steps.

• 42:53Speaker 03

  What do you think, Spencer?

• 42:54Speaker 06

  I wouldn't text this guy, uh, specifics.

• 42:56Speaker 03

  Is it immoral? Is the neighbor being immoral?

• 42:58Speaker 06

  Um, it wouldn't bother me that much. It's just like a little game he's playing. And he thinks it's gonna, you know, give him a 10% chance more of killing something. I'm okay with it. But he's not, I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but he's not hunting that area. He's just trying to keep people away from.

• 43:13Speaker 03

  Well, if he was hunting the area, it wouldn't.

• 43:16Speaker 05

  It's because he's not hunting the area. That's why it's a problem.

• 43:19Speaker 03

  If he was hunting, what's he supposed to do with his car if he's hunting the area?

• 43:22Speaker 07

  He's trying to create a buffer between his.

• 43:24Speaker 06

  I understand that, but like, like, so what Spencer's saying is this guy's doing, like, what's the purpose of this guy's game? It's not to improve his odds. It's just to keep people out of it.

• 43:33Speaker 03

  Cause he has the private land right there.

• 43:37Speaker 06

  That day, he didn't hunt it. But we don't know what happens the rest of the season. Maybe he's got family coming in a week and he wants to hunt those birds that'll live behind his place, you know?

• 43:46Speaker 03

  I do think it's immoral. Immoral. I'll put, if we're, if we're judging it on moral or.

• 43:52Speaker 06

  Or immoral, I would say immoral.

• 43:55Speaker 03

  What if I hung a sign up and said, the turkeys here are all dead?

• 43:59Speaker 07

  I'd be running in there.

• 44:03Speaker 06

  I don't like messing with other people's hunts.

• 44:06Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 44:06Speaker 06

  Like I do my business, you do your business and we accommodate one another as best we can. I don't like messing with somebody else.

• 44:13Speaker 03

  Okay. Good. That's good. Moral clarity.

• 44:16Speaker 07

  Thanks for that.

• 44:17Speaker 03

  That was waffling.

• 44:18Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 44:19Speaker 07

  But are you then gonna call him out on it? Cause you're not gonna quit hunting that spot.

• 44:24Speaker 06

  I'm probably not gonna call him out on it. Um.

• 44:28Speaker 07

  But so you're then just gonna go enjoy the fruits of his labor?

• 44:31Speaker 06

  It, I have nothing to do with it.

• 44:34Speaker 03

  You're not gonna respond to it?

• 44:36Speaker 06

  If he asked me what I think about it.

• 44:38Speaker 03

  Then you.

• 44:38Speaker 06

  Oh. I don't wanna get into a confrontation with someone that I don't like. I'm, I'd just be like, this is kind of a dick move, whatever, you know?

• 44:44Speaker 03

  And then when he texts you like, hey buddy, where are you hunting? You just don't reply.

• 44:48Speaker 06

  Probably not. I don't know. I just. Like, that's weird to me. I don't know. I just, people just need to leave one another alone. Just less people, please. You know? I don't know. I, I just wanna go turkey hunting. I just wanna go bear hunting and like. Brody's in the same trailhead, we can just say, I'm gonna go this way, you go that way. Whatever. I don't know.

• 45:13Speaker 07

  And I'd be like, no, I'm just leaving my truck here.

• 45:14Speaker 06

  All the games and subterfuge and everything. It just bothers me.

• 45:19Speaker 03

  Alright. Real strong moral clarity.

• 45:22Speaker 06

  Well, I don't know.

• 45:26Speaker 06

  So much of my worldview is relativist that it's fun to just dig in my heels sometimes.

• 45:31Speaker 03

  A hot tip on recovering lost arrows.

• 45:34Speaker 07

  We talked about this at least twice already about arrows being lost at public. Archery ranges and what you should do when you find them or how to find them or. How to get your arrows back. Well, this fellow wrote in, uh, thanks to Tyler. He said, uh, what he does is he writes his name and a phone number on his fletching. So when someone finds it, they can just dial him up and then keep, uh, keep it easy. Instead of having to meet up somewhere, he just says, hey, stash it. In so and so spot at the range and I'll grab it next time.

• 46:10Speaker 03

  So this is happening to him all the time.

• 46:14Speaker 06

  Often enough, I guess.

• 46:16Speaker 03

  All right, we gotta put that one to rest. That's good.

• 46:19Speaker 06

  No.

• 46:19Speaker 03

  If it was about lost arrows in my yard, I'd be more interested.

• 46:22Speaker 05

  Yeah, but that's a simple, like, great solution to a problem. I love it.

• 46:27Speaker 03

  That's true.

• 46:28Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 46:28Speaker 05

  We had a hot tip-off on Media Radio where the guy said he puts a small reflective tape in front of his veins, and then he bought like a $12 UV flashlight from Amazon, and you can see that thing from 50 yards away if you're pointing the flashlight in the right direction.

• 46:41Speaker 06

  Oh. That's where this all started.

• 46:43Speaker 03

  Yeah. That's good.

• 46:45Speaker 06

  Mm-hmm.

• 46:47Speaker 03

  Randall?

• 46:48Speaker 06

  All right, I guess I'll put on my moral hat again.

• 46:54Speaker 06

  Yeah, I mean, this is big news. Last week, Republicans in the Senate

• 47:01Speaker 06

  voted to essentially kill the 20-year moratorium on this mine upstream of the Boundary Waters, a potential mine upstream of the Boundary Waters.

• 47:15Speaker 06

  It's basically bent over backwards to let a Chilean billionaire

• 47:22Speaker 06

  take minerals out of the ground and send them to be processed in China.

• 47:25Speaker 03

  So then when they ship them back as products, they can be married?

• 47:28Speaker 06

  There'll be tariffs.

• 47:28Speaker 03

  There'll be tariffs on them?

• 47:29Speaker 06

  Yeah, yeah, and this is-

• 47:31Speaker 03

  On our own stuff coming back to us?

• 47:32Speaker 06

  70% of Minnesotans opposed the mine, 98% of the 675,000 public comments were opposed to it. Dozens of hunting and fishing organizations were opposed to it. And then the way that they did this too, like, there's a bunch of stuff you can get into here. The way that they did this was using the Congressional Review Act, which is a law that was passed in 96 that lets Congress sort of override or cancel regulations put in place by federal agencies.

• 48:05Speaker 06

  And they're supposed to do it within 60 days. And it had not been used very much. I think the first 20 years of its existence, it was used once. Um, then it was used, there were five of them during Obama, zero successful uses because he vetoed them. Um, and then Biden used it three times, but of the 42 times it's been used, 38 of them have been under Trump. Um, so it's, it's not just a change in like

• 48:35Speaker 07

  Ever?

• 48:37Speaker 06

  Yeah. Thirty-eight out of the 42 have been, have been, so it's a change.

• 48:41Speaker 03

  Yeah, it'll be some lawyer will be like, hey, you know, we could try, right? And they're having some luck with it.

• 48:46Speaker 06

  And the thing about it is that you can't put the genie back in the bottle because once you use this act, they can never make a rule that's, the agency can never come back and make a similar rule. So it's sort of, does it forever? Like it just overturns the decision forever. Um, the, the mine's not a done deal. Like they still have to do permitting, um, and permitting could be a bear that could like kill it. But, um, I mean, essentially the way this worked was this is a Chilean mining company. In 1966, they got mineral rights for this area. Their lease expired, they renewed it, expired again,

• 49:29Speaker 06

  they renewed it again. And then under Obama, it expired. And at that point, they basically said, you don't have a right to automatically renew this lease. We need to reevaluate the merits and, and risks of, of having this lease in place. Um, and so they put a two year moratorium in place so that they could do a study. Um, once Obama goes out of office, the, the billionaire guy, um, in Chile, he basically kicks this right off. He, and one of the weird things about this is in December of 2016, so right after the election, he buys a $6 million house in DC and rents it to Ivanka Trump and Jared Kushner. Um, it never goes on the market as a rental. He just buys it. They see it before the property's

• 50:13Speaker 06

  even closed and they move in. Um,

• 50:17Speaker 05

  And they lived there through 2022, I think. It was a while.

• 50:20Speaker 06

  Yeah. Yeah. And then the, he, like this guy's also met, he's met Trump before at a Patriots game because they're buddies with Kraft and Brady. Uh, but within weeks of the administration coming in, he starts, he starts communicating directly with Zinke and his staff. So all of a sudden, Zinke announces that the feds.

• 50:43Speaker 06

  Like the decision that we had to, we could reevaluate this was bad. And he says, actually, we have to automatically renew the lease. So just like a pivot, sort of based on some strange legal technicality. So they reissue the lease. Zinke says, uh, that it deserves further study and then reissued the lease the next day. Meanwhile, uh, the Forest Service under Sonny Perdue kills the study, even though he told Congress they would do the study.

• 51:17Speaker 06

  Long story short, Biden comes in, he cancels the lease and they put in place this 20, they finished the study and put in place a 20 year moratorium on mining.

• 51:26Speaker 06

  Trump comes back in, Zinke's now in Congress and Zink, the guy who took over for Zinke at Interior, David Bernhardt, who's Trump's other Secretary of the Interior in his first term. He is now working as a lobbyist for the Chilean mining company. Um, and so Zinke.

• 51:45Speaker 03

  At quite a nice little chunk of change.

• 51:48Speaker 06

  Yeah, yeah, I've heard. I heard from one source, like a hundred thousand dollars a month. I couldn't find documented proof of that. I saw some other reports that were like a couple hundred thousand a quarter, but.

• 52:02Speaker 03

  I heard, yeah, I heard similar amounts to try to push this thing through. Just, just real quick, so people understand what I'm talking about when we say a mine. People are familiar with the Boundary Waters, uh, wilderness area. This is, this is a mine that's going in upstream of that in, in Superior National Forest. Uh, Superior National Forest, interestingly, was, um, put in place by Theodore Roosevelt, I think 1909. What they do is they're, you're pulling a bunch of rock up out of the ground. It, once it oxidizes, it produces an acid.

• 52:37Speaker 03

  Um, and I mean, like, like, you know, millions of, like, millions of tons.

• 52:43Speaker 05

  Yeah, and I'll like, I'll point out that the fact that like, you're hearing a lot of people say, but the mine's not in the Boundary Waters. It's important that it's upstream or will be. Because this type of mine, there's never been an example of this type of mine not resulting in

• 53:01Speaker 06

  And this

• 53:01Speaker 05

  Pollution, like major pollution.

• 53:03Speaker 06

  Antifagast is the Chilean company, they just had in, in January of this year, they have a copper sulfide mine in Chile that was, they just received a bunch of fines for violating water quality standards and monitoring. Um, and yeah, it just seems like a bad actor that had some friends in the White House and they pushed it through. Like, I've also heard there were a bunch of senators that were opposed to, uh, killing the moratorium. And they kind of got phone calls from the White House and, um, yeah, basically, Zinke whipped it up in the House and pushed it through and Bernhardt's been lobbying for it. And, uh, and now the moratorium can't come back because they, they did it in this way.

• 53:48Speaker 06

  So, um, for like a, a system in which we should have say in the management of our public lands. Um, and you would hope that people can weigh in and make a difference in how their own public lands are managed. It's kind of just a big slap in the face.

• 54:05Speaker 03

  Another interesting part of it is if you go back to last June, when we were fighting the public land sell-off. This, after that fight, the story sort of came out about this like grand coalition. And, and every time there's a big public lands fight, like when it happened under Jason Chaffetz, when it happened under Mike Lee, so Jason Chaffetz was like 2017 or something like that.

• 54:29Speaker 06

  Mm-hmm.

• 54:30Speaker 03

  Mike Lee last June, both times it was like this proposal to sell 3 million acres of public lands in the West. And the story afterward comes out and it's like this coalition of sportsmen's groups. And this like unusual mix of these like traditionally right-wing and traditionally left-wing voices come together in support of whatever. In this case, I mean, in this case, the sort of like hunter angler, you know, the hunter angler, like right-leaning.

• 55:06Speaker 03

  Block couldn't deliver the goods.

• 55:12Speaker 03

  I mean, this thing went on party lines, dude, like, like all, all these hunter angler based conservation organizations of which I'm a board of a board member of one could not turn Republican votes.

• 55:26Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 55:27Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, they're, they're just like, no.

• 55:29Speaker 06

  And apparently.

• 55:30Speaker 03

  Like, we're going, we're going with what the boss tells us on this one. And it was also like, it was looking at times the vote looked good. The White House got involved in the vote.

• 55:38Speaker 06

  Mm hmm.

• 55:39Speaker 03

  And then people chicken shit it out and people that talked about, people that talked, there's even people, there's people that expressed knowing that they were voting wrong. They expressed that they were voting wrong, but had to with that kind of stuff like it's just like, that kind of stuff's infuriating.

• 55:58Speaker 05

  And you can feel it in some of the statements afterwards that some of these politicians made, they were almost like apologetic about, you know, their justification for how they voted.

• 56:07Speaker 03

  Well, the justification for how they voted is someone told them what to do.

• 56:10Speaker 06

  Yeah. And I will say, like, I've seen, I've seen a lot of comments out there, like some from our audience, taking shots at like the, like you'll, a lot of times you'll, in debates like this, you'll hear people say this isn't a partisan issue, right? Like, like this is not a partisan issue. We just need to get it done. And to say something is not a partisan issue isn't to like, say that both sides are the same on this issue. It's to say, it's to give space and say, like, you can be a Republican and do the right thing when it comes to this, right? Like.

• 56:45Speaker 03

  Not in this case.

• 56:46Speaker 06

  Well, yeah, I mean, it's.

• 56:47Speaker 03

  Not on this one.

• 56:47Speaker 06

  It's like an aspiration, but what I'm saying is like, it's not, it's not a judgment that like, this was definitely a partisan vote, but like there were Republicans out there or people who don't identify as Republican, but they might be conservative, whatever. You can be opposed to this mine, no matter what walk of life you're in, but like your representatives aren't falling through on it.

• 57:14Speaker 03

  Mm hmm.

• 57:15Speaker 06

  You know what I'm saying?

• 57:15Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 57:16Speaker 05

  Yeah, for the general population, it's not partisan, but it certainly was partisan when the vote, when it came time to vote.

• 57:22Speaker 06

  Yeah, absolutely. So it's not like when you say something's, when you say conservation is a non, like, should be a nonpartisan issue. It's not exculpating. Like shit like this, it's it's meant to say like, people from both parties can't agree on this, but whether or not their elected officials are going to do the right thing is something entirely different.

• 57:43Speaker 03

  On on the tur- in terms of saying stuff like that, I don't want to spend all day on this one, but this is a major issue.

• 57:51Speaker 03

  In terms of saying stuff like that, when people will say to me, or they'll say whatever they're big, well, I don't want to get political. I don't want to be political, but it's like, everything is political. The fact that Superior National Forest is there in the first place, how is Superior National Forest there? Because Theodore Roosevelt wrote it into existence. How did he have the authority to write it into existence? Cause he won the election, the political one. Like, everything is political.

• 58:16Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 58:17Speaker 03

  Suppressors is political.

• 58:21Speaker 03

  Uh, Jordan's going to talk about Oklahoma releasing captive deer into the wild. I don't want to get political. It's political.

• 58:26Speaker 06

  Right.

• 58:27Speaker 03

  We're going to talk about the Colorado fur ban. Political.

• 58:33Speaker 03

  It it just, it just is. People that want to stay away from politics, I like, I get the sentiment of what you're saying, but it's not how things work.

• 58:39Speaker 06

  Oh, yeah, no, I I like, yeah.

• 58:43Speaker 06

  I guess.

• 58:43Speaker 03

  But yes, on a nod, yes.

• 58:45Speaker 06

  When you, when you say, when you say like conservation, this isn't a partisan issue. It means that people from both sides can agree on it.

• 58:52Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 58:52Speaker 06

  It's giving space for that.

• 58:53Speaker 03

  Yeah, like the great American outdoors.

• 58:55Speaker 06

  It's not like giving Republicans a free pass on kowtowing to the White House and pushing this through, even though they know it's the wrong thing to do.

• 59:03Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. You're right. There there are none, you know, there's talk right now, it seems goofy, but like, putting Theodore Roosevelt, just got leaked the other day. Putting Theodore Roosevelt in the Football Hall of Fame. Have you seen this?

• 59:18Speaker 06

  Mm hmm.

• 59:19Speaker 03

  Comes right on the heels of this Boundary Waters thing. So you're like basically shitting on the legacy of Theodore Roosevelt. And then like a day later, it's leaked that like, we're going to put him in the Football Hall of Fame.

• 59:35Speaker 03

  You know, he'd probably be like, yeah, uh, uh, uh, if this is a trade off, I'll go the, I'll, I'll go with the preserve in the boundary waters from acid runoff.

• 59:45Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 59:45Speaker 03

  Please.

• 59:46Speaker 06

  So I guess the last thing to say is just like,

• 59:50Speaker 06

  there's still stuff you can do like it, like when we take a loss like this, you still can call up your representatives. You don't need an excuse to call up your representatives and, and let them know. So if you, if you're, if you're

• 1:00:02Speaker 03

  See how much good that, see how far that'll get you on this one.

• 1:00:04Speaker 06

  Well, yeah.

• 1:00:05Speaker 03

  A lot of people did that.

• 1:00:07Speaker 06

  I know. But what, what else are you gonna do?

• 1:00:10Speaker 05

  The state of Minnesota seems like they may have a move left to like, prevent this. There's also Canada will be involved. Uh, they've said that they're going to resist this also local tribes. Um, they have like some say in this as well. And so there's a few players, uh, who could maybe slow this down or, or stop it.

• 1:00:27Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's not a done deal. It'll move to, it'll move, it'll move the next steps. It was just a disappointing vote. It was a disappointing vote because so many people, um, so many representatives on the, in this specific case, so many representatives on the Republican side signaled to conservation groups signaled that they wanted to do the right thing and then ultimately admitted that they couldn't, which is like, you know?

• 1:00:55Speaker 06

  Like you said, chicken shits.

• 1:00:57Speaker 03

  Yeah, I guess.

• 1:00:58Speaker 05

  The worst in politics.

• 1:00:59Speaker 06

  As far as calling them though, what I mean is like, if somebody does the wrong thing and then nobody burns their ass about it.

• 1:01:06Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:01:07Speaker 06

  Like, you want, listen, Buster.

• 1:01:09Speaker 03

  You want those people to

• 1:01:09Speaker 06

  Mighty disappointed.

• 1:01:12Speaker 03

  You want those people in the office to be like, shit, like people are pissed off about this.

• 1:01:17Speaker 05

  Yeah, this vote, this was an open book test. Like, the answer was so obvious that there shouldn't be mining here because the public was so against it. The locals were against it. The history that these mines have, like, it was clear that the answer is no, we, we don't allow this. And so I think it's fair for our audience to, uh, you know, look at these politicians in the future when, when Mr. Politician campaigns on being an outdoorsman, a hunter, an angler, a conservationist, a public land advocate, uh, it's reasonable to be like, I don't think you get a second chance on this. Like you, you failed this open book test so spectacularly that I don't believe you. And the consequence of that is I'm not going to vote for you because of your track record on like this exact thing.

• 1:02:04Speaker 03

  I don't know what to say.

• 1:02:05Speaker 06

  You say that's a good segment, Randall.

• 1:02:07Speaker 03

  It's a good segment, Randall. A great wrap up, great wrap up for Spencer Newland.

• 1:02:12Speaker 05

  That's inspiring.

• 1:02:14Speaker 03

  George.

• 1:02:15Speaker 05

  There should be consequences when they, when they mess it up that bad. That's it.

• 1:02:18Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:02:19Speaker 03

  You know what, man? I gotta talk. Um.

• 1:02:25Speaker 03

  I'm gonna, I, I, I have an, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I gotta speak in DC at an event, a dinner. I'm gonna talk a little about the Boundary Waters.

• 1:02:31Speaker 06

  Okay. Good.

• 1:02:33Speaker 02

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• 1:04:48Speaker 03

  So I should be doing this segment because I just came from Oklahoma yesterday.

• 1:04:52Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:04:52Speaker 03

  I didn't see none of these deer.

• 1:04:54Speaker 05

  That's in my neck of the woods.

• 1:04:56Speaker 03

  I didn't see none of these deer running around.

• 1:04:58Speaker 05

  Well, there's only two so far. Yeah, no, every time I talk about this, I, I have a hard time believing it actually happened. But, but sure enough, it did. So, um, back in 2024, so two years ago, the Oklahoma State Legislature passed a bill. I mean, speaking of like bad votes, this bill was passed almost unanimously in both the House and the Senate, and it established what was called the Chronic Wasting Disease Genetic Improvement Act. And the idea here is that we're going to breed whitetail deer to be resistant to CWD. So there's a biologist from Texas A&M

• 1:05:38Speaker 05

  named Chris Seaberry, or Seaberry, who basically discovered that if, if, and I forget the exact, like allele, whatever, codon, but if deer have this, they're resistant to CWD. Now, they're not immune, so they can still get it.

• 1:05:59Speaker 03

  They call them durable.

• 1:06:00Speaker 05

  Durable, right. So they can still get it. And that's, that's a really key thing to understand here. They're not immune from, from CWD, but they're more durable.

• 1:06:07Speaker 03

  That's the fashionable.

• 1:06:08Speaker 05

  Word lately is durable. Yeah, right. So, so, and, and what kind of advocates of this point to oftentimes is scrapey in sheep, which is also a prion disease, and it was eliminated through this kind of genetic breeding program. Right? Obviously, you're really not comparing apples to apples in that situation because sheep are, are livestock, right? They're in pens, there, it's a very controlled environment. The proposal here is to breed these deer to be genetically durable to CWD, and then we're going to release them into the wild to improve the genetics of the wild herd.

• 1:06:48Speaker 05

  Which kind of sounds like it might work, but it's never been tried anywhere. The other really crucial thing is that you can't, the, the deer aren't tested for CWD before they're released. We don't know if these deer have the disease before they're released, and I've, I've confirmed this with the head, the head vet, the head veterinarian. No, that's true. Yeah. They don't know. For Oklahoma, they don't, they don't know. They weren't tested. And so, and, and I'm, I'm not a hundred percent sure what it's like in Oklahoma. I can tell you in Texas, the deer breeders are like, where seed, like, if there's CWD in Texas, it's probably in those breeding facilities.

• 1:07:29Speaker 05

  So it's there, but these deer that are released, we don't know if they have it. And so they passed this bill in 2024, and I think, like, people weren't, I mean, maybe it's just me, but I was like, again, they're not going to actually do this, right? And the bill itself was very, it's, it's very hard to understand the bill as it was written, because it allowed the Department of Agriculture in Oklahoma to write the rules, basically the standard that they would use to release the deer, but then it also had another line in there that said, the Department of Wildlife Conservation, so the people kind of supposed to be in charge of wildlife in the state,

• 1:08:11Speaker 05

  they have a, some kind of permitting authority. It said they can charge a one-time permit fee. It didn't say they could create rules, but if you're charging a permit fee, then it's kind of implied you have the authority to create the rules by which you get that permit. But it was all very unclear. Fast forward two years, in, in the original bill, it said the deer would be released between February and April of this year. The Wildlife Agency hadn't crafted any kind of permitting requirements or any kind of rules. They had started a survey to survey the genetics of the wild population. They hadn't completed that yet.

• 1:08:51Speaker 05

  Um, but then we kind of got news, uh, about a month ago. That one of these deer had actually been released. The ag department, um, approved the release of, of one of these deer. So this is a, again, a Penrays deer that hasn't been tested for CWD. Is now being released onto a low fence property where it can go kind of wherever it wants to go.

• 1:09:16Speaker 03

  Yeah. And the public does not know where.

• 1:09:19Speaker 05

  I, I got a county. I can tell you it's Waggoner County.

• 1:09:23Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:09:23Speaker 05

  I think that's how you say it was one of the deer. I don't know where the second deer was released. Um, and like from the, from the breeder's perspective, this is great because now our potential pool of customers is everyone. Right? Any landowner in the state, it used to be you could only sell a deer to a high fence operation, which, you know, there are lots of those in Oklahoma. Not that many. Now any landowner can buy a deer. Why you would want to is sort of beyond me.

• 1:09:50Speaker 03

  Because you can buy like, you could buy one of their, their crazy big bucks.

• 1:09:55Speaker 05

  Right, but.

• 1:09:55Speaker 03

  One of their phony big bucks and then cut it loose on your place and act like you're doing it to help CWD.

• 1:10:00Speaker 05

  Well.

• 1:10:00Speaker 03

  Yeah. There's 750,000 deer in Oklahoma.

• 1:10:03Speaker 05

  Right.

• 1:10:04Speaker 03

  These two deer, like, I, I, you know, I'd be the first to admit, I'm no mathematician.

• 1:10:09Speaker 05

  Well, we, we.

• 1:10:10Speaker 03

  I'm no statistician, but they've cut two of these deer loose into a state with 750,000 deer. And they're like, this will help genetically with, with CWD. It's like, are you kidding me?

• 1:10:22Speaker 05

  We were taught, we talked to Heffelfinger about this a while back and he made that point. Like you're never gonna like spread that gene, effectively spread that gene through the entire population. But he also said. You don't know what else that gene could be responsible for. Like, it could have all kinds of negative effects, too. So, they, the Wildlife Commission held a hearing on this where they invited some scientists to present. One of them had put a model together of like, how many deer would we actually have to release in order to improve the genetics of the state? It was like seventy-five thousand per year for ten years straight. Basically, just replacing the entire population.

• 1:11:03Speaker 05

  And even then, the genetic benefits you get start to degrade after you stop releasing more deer. And this was also, you know, according to the scientists, in their model, they assume kind of best-case scenario, which is that captive deer will survive and breed at the same rate as wild deer, which, I mean, is kind of a big assumption, right?

• 1:11:28Speaker 03

  One of the craziest parts of this, oh, go on. I'll tell you the crazy, I'll tell you what I feel is crazy.

• 1:11:33Speaker 05

  All right, yeah, so there's kind of a, one more chapter to this, is that

• 1:11:38Speaker 05

  the kind of sponsors of this program in the legislature were very frustrated with the Wildlife Agency for not moving forward with the survey. We're kind of dragging their heels, right, according to the sponsor. So, this year, they proposed a new bill that would totally eliminate the Wildlife Agency from this process. Like, they would have no permitting role. They wouldn't be able to charge a permitting fee, just totally remove them from the process entirely. So, so these deer, which, you know, wildlife in the state, would be controlled by the Department of Agriculture. That bill, so two years ago, the bill sailed through.

• 1:12:22Speaker 05

  This bill just failed in a Senate committee. It passed the House, went over to the Senate. It failed in a Senate committee on a nine-to-three vote. And I was told that the kind of, the public interest, you might say, in the program two years ago has then trickled to now. And senators now are a little more hesitant to sign off on this. And so, it's possible that there's appetite to kind of get rid of the program entirely next year in a bill.

• 1:12:58Speaker 03

  Because you can't find, you can't find a wildlife org.

• 1:13:03Speaker 03

  Deer breeders.

• 1:13:04Speaker 05

  Right.

• 1:13:05Speaker 03

  You can't find a wildlife org that thinks it's a good idea.

• 1:13:07Speaker 05

  No.

• 1:13:07Speaker 03

  I love that Boone and Crockett and Pope and Young are saying Oklahoma deer, there's a possibility of Oklahoma deer becoming ineligible for the books because they're genetically modified.

• 1:13:15Speaker 05

  Yep. Yep. And it could expand like, like I live in Texas, neighbors Oklahoma.

• 1:13:21Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:13:22Speaker 05

  If they like cross the border into Texas, now Texas deer or not, right? So it's, no one seems to really like this, except for the deer breeders and their allies.

• 1:13:33Speaker 03

  Well, one of the main, okay, one of the main, I'm gonna choose my words carefully here. One of the primary, main, key, main, primary, most important, key individuals involved

• 1:13:51Speaker 03

  in this genetic, this supposed genetic durability issue, prior to that work,

• 1:13:59Speaker 03

  had been on the warpath against Texas's state agency about CWD. Because he felt that, he felt that they were imperiling his land values by talking about CWD all the time.

• 1:14:16Speaker 03

  Okay?

• 1:14:17Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:14:17Speaker 03

  Then low and behold, down the road, the other interesting thing is this is the biggest proponents from this. When I look around and get messages from friends and stuff, the biggest proponents of this are the same people that have always said it's a hoax. CWD is a hoax.

• 1:14:33Speaker 05

  Right.

• 1:14:34Speaker 03

  Then why do we need a solution? You're like, it's a hoax, but here's a solution.

• 1:14:40Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:14:40Speaker 03

  It's a hoax, but this will fix it.

• 1:14:42Speaker 05

  Right.

• 1:14:42Speaker 03

  It's like, hold on a minute, is it a hoax or does this fix this or is this self-serving?

• 1:14:47Speaker 05

  Well, if you gotta release 75,000 deer annually, someone's gonna make some money.

• 1:14:52Speaker 03

  That's, but it's so funny, like, it's like, one minute it's a hoax and it doesn't have any impact. And the next minute, the industry's like, but wait a minute. It is a problem and guess who's the solution?

• 1:15:04Speaker 05

  We can solve it.

• 1:15:05Speaker 03

  It's me!

• 1:15:05Speaker 05

  Right, right, right.

• 1:15:07Speaker 03

  All these years you've blamed me and now here I am with the fix.

• 1:15:11Speaker 05

  Right, right, but, but you can, you can kinda, you can kinda see why if you're not really paying attention to this issue, you're not in this, in the weeds on this, you're like, yeah, we breed, we like, we, we breed for certain traits in animals, right? Why wouldn't this work? And so you can kinda see why this program, the state legislators were like, okay, yeah, we'll give it a shot, might as well. Um, but now it sounds like they've been, and you know, organizations, the, the sportsman conservation organizations have been doing a lot of work in that legislature to educate, um, the, the, the representatives there and it seems to be kind of taking hold.

• 1:15:49Speaker 03

  I, I'm gonna paraphrase something from the conservationist Jim Pozwitz. Jim Pozwitz, he, he made this point, I think he might've been on the show when he made this point, or I was interviewing him or something. Either way, the late Jim Pozwitz was saying, he was talking about the deer breeders, so I do them trying to make giant mega bucks and all this stuff. The reason they're doing that is because there is, there's a societal belief in the, the symbolism of wildlife, right? We have placed cultural value on deer.

• 1:16:30Speaker 03

  We've placed cultural value on the landscape, on nature's ability to make this creature, right? When one gets big, it's celebrated, but it's like a cultural value around wild places and wildlife and nature. And they've, and they kind of, they've kind of looked at this and they're like, oh, got it, big antlers.

• 1:16:52Speaker 05

  Yeah, right.

• 1:16:53Speaker 03

  Do you know what I mean? They're like, they kind of missed the parts about wildlife.

• 1:16:58Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:16:59Speaker 03

  They missed the parts about mystery.

• 1:17:02Speaker 05

  The magic.

• 1:17:03Speaker 03

  Yeah, like, like the magic of a landscape producing these magnificent specimens.

• 1:17:09Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:17:10Speaker 03

  And they're like, oh, yeah, big old antlers. I could probably do that better in my yard. But what makes those big old antlers valuable?

• 1:17:20Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:17:21Speaker 03

  Is the fact that they have cultural significance as wildlife. Meaning, if they went and found a way to make- Cows, huge. Okay, if they're like, this cow's way bigger. People aren't gonna say like, oh, at that point, I would like to pay you $20,000 to shoot one of those cows. It would be, well, no, because that's livestock. I'm not gonna pay you to shoot that.

• 1:17:45Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:17:45Speaker 03

  But they're like, no, but this has the appearance of this thing that has cultural value, I'll sell it to you. Because it's got big antlers. And isn't that what it's really all about?

• 1:17:57Speaker 05

  Right, right, right, well, and that, and that kind of takes me back to these, to the market for this, right? Because there's, there's two sides. There's people who want to sell them, but then they need a market. And, and I just, I still don't understand, maybe if you have a giant spread, thousands of acres, you might be interested in this. But if you have like 200 acres of low fence property, like, why would you want to buy? What, it's gonna leave.

• 1:18:25Speaker 03

  People will do it.

• 1:18:25Speaker 05

  It's, it's, it's gonna be in the next county.

• 1:18:27Speaker 03

  People aren't smart about statistics.

• 1:18:29Speaker 05

  I don't.

• 1:18:30Speaker 03

  Why do they buy, why does my wife buy scratch offs at the gas station?

• 1:18:34Speaker 05

  She's an addict.

• 1:18:37Speaker 03

  Because she just has an undying faith in magic.

• 1:18:43Speaker 03

  And no amount of like, no amount of logic is gonna dissuade her from buying scratch offs with the kids.

• 1:18:51Speaker 07

  Well, maybe she does it for the entertainment value.

• 1:18:53Speaker 03

  Yeah, and I think that people will be entertained by like, they'll buy some deer and turn, I don't know. Because it's just like, nature isn't gonna be good enough.

• 1:19:03Speaker 07

  You know who won't buy them is CWD deniers, because they don't give a shit anyway.

• 1:19:07Speaker 03

  No, they will, because they, yeah.

• 1:19:10Speaker 06

  When I heard about this, like, first I was like, oh, that's, that's not a good idea. But then shortly after that, I had a tingle of satisfaction that someone felt like they were portraying, or like, pursuing a creative solution. Because CWD feels like a thing that. We're probably gonna have to take a big swing at it and like every tool in the toolbox needs to be explored.

• 1:19:30Speaker 03

  And nothing's working.

• 1:19:31Speaker 06

  Right, and like I am satisfied to hear that someone is like, well, maybe this thing out of left field is the answer and that other people did look into it and threw cold water on it, you know, at some point, but I'm happy that like there are things behind the scenes that are, you know, beyond my awareness, taking place trying to solve CWD.

• 1:19:51Speaker 03

  Agree, I totally agree. It's like, it's again, I've made myself a thousand times on this show, I've made myself clear that like, much to the annoyance of certain friends of mine, the main thing I remain worried about, the main thing is that, and it's never happened, but what scares me is the idea that there would be transmission to a human being. That scares me.

• 1:20:16Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:20:17Speaker 03

  Right? That, this has nothing to do with that, this is not addressing that. The other part is, you have, like, I can't help but look at where it's coming from.

• 1:20:24Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 1:20:25Speaker 03

  It's coming from the community that has told us all along, there is no problem. So why are you all of a sudden interested in a solution? It's gotta be that there's more to the story. You have cried from every rooftop, it's a hoax, there's no problem. But now you wanna fix it. I don't buy it. Something else is going on.

• 1:20:56Speaker 06

  That's a good way to end it.

• 1:21:01Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 1:21:02Speaker 06

  The whole thing? Yeah, let's go.

• 1:21:04Speaker 07

  Wrap it up.

• 1:21:05Speaker 06

  Shut it down.

• 1:21:06Speaker 07

  Steve, you were in Wisconsin, uh, two weekends ago for the youth turkey hunt, weren't you?

• 1:21:12Speaker 03

  I was there two weeks ago for the youth turkey hunt, and let me tell you why I go there. Because I love my friend Doug.

• 1:21:16Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 1:21:17Speaker 03

  Also, I would go there early on because Wisconsin doesn't have an age restriction.

• 1:21:25Speaker 03

  I have three kids, they're spread out.

• 1:21:27Speaker 05

  Mm hmm.

• 1:21:27Speaker 03

  So I could go there and mentor my, for instance, my eight year old daughter, turkey hunting. Um, where she would be literally sitting in my lap as we turkey hunted. And then Doug could hunt with one of my other kids or we would team up and it became a family tradition. I think we went eight years, we've been there eight years in a row for youth turkey season. It's a family tradition. My kids have come to love Doug like a, like a, like an uncle, like a brother.

• 1:21:53Speaker 05

  Oh, I thought you'd say like a landowner.

• 1:21:55Speaker 03

  No. They're not, that's not a concept.

• 1:21:58Speaker 07

  To set the stage before we move on, it was something your kids kind of, as far as hunting turkeys, it was something they kind of graduated into.

• 1:22:06Speaker 03

  Yes, they did. And they all spent time, they all spent time.

• 1:22:12Speaker 03

  Um, they all had to spend time just going and hanging out. Before I.

• 1:22:17Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 1:22:18Speaker 03

  Said it was time and I have generally said it was time to like lap, sit on my lap. And turkey hunt when they're eight.

• 1:22:25Speaker 07

  Mm hmm.

• 1:22:27Speaker 03

  Art, that's my, nah, I don't want to call it arbitrary. That's a number I've arrived at.

• 1:22:31Speaker 07

  Where you felt comfortable.

• 1:22:32Speaker 03

  That's the number I've arrived at.

• 1:22:33Speaker 07

  Well, that sets up this story here. Pat Durkin wrote about it, uh, the meteor dot com. Uh, that same weekend, Steve was there. There was an accident in Wisconsin where a. Men, a thirty five year old, sorry, thirty five, thirty eight, oh, I already, already lost my numbers for him. Thirty eight.

• 1:22:56Speaker 05

  An adult.

• 1:22:57Speaker 07

  Thirty something.

• 1:22:57Speaker 05

  Thirty four.

• 1:22:58Speaker 07

  Well, I mean, I mean, thirty four. Thirty four. I think, I think it's important to know his age. Thirty four year old was hunting with a three year old, mentoring a three year old that weekend. And they supposedly.

• 1:23:12Speaker 05

  Mm hmm.

• 1:23:13Speaker 07

  Aimed and shot. A forty five year old that was mentoring a nine year old.

• 1:23:20Speaker 03

  With a twelve gauge.

• 1:23:21Speaker 05

  A seven year old.

• 1:23:23Speaker 07

  Seven year old, thanks.

• 1:23:24Speaker 03

  It's important to point out.

• 1:23:26Speaker 05

  Yeah, they hit two.

• 1:23:27Speaker 03

  Hit the mentor and the kid. A mentor and a kid hit a mentor and a kid.

• 1:23:30Speaker 07

  No, no, no, it was a nine year old.

• 1:23:33Speaker 03

  I think we'll just get a little hung up on the details here.

• 1:23:35Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:23:35Speaker 03

  The three year old matters, the three matters.

• 1:23:38Speaker 05

  The three year old, that matters. Yeah.

• 1:23:40Speaker 07

  That matters big time and the, the twelve gauge shotgun.

• 1:23:43Speaker 03

  Shooting a twelve gauge, three years old, shooting a twelve gauge for mentored youth turkey season.

• 1:23:48Speaker 07

  Okay, so.

• 1:23:48Speaker 03

  Let's get the fat, yeah, the facts.

• 1:23:50Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 1:23:51Speaker 03

  Hit the facts.

• 1:23:54Speaker 07

  Youth turkey hunting weekend in Wisconsin. The three-year-old is with the 34-year-old. They shoot two other hunters that are out in the field together with a 12-gauge shotgun.

• 1:24:06Speaker 03

  At 35 yards.

• 1:24:08Speaker 07

  At 35 yards. Luckily, no one is fatally hurt. I think as of the writing of the article, uh, the seven-year-old kid was still in the hospital, but the, uh, his mentor was, had been released. Actually, they're not releasing genders, so we don't know any of the genders of these hunters. But the, um, the people that had been shot, the, the, the mentor had been released. The kid was still in the hospital, but non-fatal injuries. Um, so that's really all we know. They're not releasing a lot because they're obviously, they're going to continue to investigate this situation. Because as you might imagine, there's a lot of questions. I have a lot of questions.

• 1:24:52Speaker 07

  My first thing, when I read it, when I was assigned this little book report here, was like, my God, how are you really going to make a three-year-old hold and aim and fire a 12-gauge?

• 1:25:06Speaker 03

  That's why I smell fish.

• 1:25:07Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 1:25:08Speaker 03

  I smell bad fish.

• 1:25:10Speaker 06

  Never considered this.

• 1:25:11Speaker 07

  I read the comments.

• 1:25:12Speaker 03

  Oh, that's the only thing I consider.

• 1:25:14Speaker 07

  I read the comments on the, on our webpage. And.

• 1:25:19Speaker 03

  Do people smell fish?

• 1:25:20Speaker 07

  Oh, yeah. 75% of them are like, that three-year-old didn't pull that trigger. The mentor was just out with a three-year-old and was like, oh, this is a way for me to get another bird.

• 1:25:32Speaker 03

  I'm not buying it.

• 1:25:32Speaker 06

  This is like a level up of.

• 1:25:34Speaker 03

  I'm not buying, yeah, I'm not buying that that three-year-old was wielding a 12-gauge. No.

• 1:25:38Speaker 06

  Three-year-old was probably shitting its pants. Yeah. Do they wipe their own butt?

• 1:25:41Speaker 05

  Three-year-old was probably taking a nap.

• 1:25:42Speaker 06

  Well, I don't raise, I don't raise a child. Some do, okay.

• 1:25:45Speaker 07

  I mean.

• 1:25:46Speaker 03

  They're not doing a good job of it. They don't like get up and fix breakfast.

• 1:25:51Speaker 07

  They rarely have complete sentences.

• 1:25:53Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:25:54Speaker 03

  We should have brought a three year old in and asked him some.

• 1:25:57Speaker 07

  Hey, just so you know, I tried to get one. I posted this morning.

• 1:26:03Speaker 05

  Craig.

• 1:26:04Speaker 07

  No, no, on the, on the, uh, on the company Slack, under the Bozeman channel, I asked, does anyone have a three year old kid they could bring to the office to be part of the new show, episode around two thirty? It's now three fifteen. They'd have to be on camera, but wouldn't be required to do much talking and saying hi. I'd like to have them to show the audience the size and stature of a three year old to show context.

• 1:26:26Speaker 03

  We should have had a whole panel of three year olds in there.

• 1:26:29Speaker 06

  This would be helpful for me, cause when I read the age of a child, it doesn't do much.

• 1:26:33Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:26:34Speaker 07

  I mean.

• 1:26:35Speaker 05

  Yeah, I had the same.

• 1:26:36Speaker 07

  They came out of a vagina three years prior.

• 1:26:40Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:26:40Speaker 07

  They're just not that big yet.

• 1:26:42Speaker 05

  No.

• 1:26:42Speaker 06

  I know, but I just, I can't really call to mind a three year old. This is helpful.

• 1:26:46Speaker 03

  A three year old, a three year old would, let me give you a friend's instance, a three year old would walk into a lake and shit their pants.

• 1:26:55Speaker 07

  Yes.

• 1:26:58Speaker 03

  You wouldn't even think, you wouldn't even like think much about it.

• 1:27:02Speaker 07

  The recoil of a twelve gauge shotgun would do great bodily harm to a three year old.

• 1:27:06Speaker 05

  Yeah, it would.

• 1:27:08Speaker 07

  Jordan said only some three year olds wipe their butt.

• 1:27:11Speaker 05

  I, I want to amend that. Only some three year olds sit, like, aren't in diapers. None, none of them wipe their own butt.

• 1:27:19Speaker 03

  I want me to make this totally scaly. If you have a three year old in your life, you are having, not daily, but you are having multiple times per week encounters with their feces.

• 1:27:35Speaker 07

  Getting under your fingernails.

• 1:27:36Speaker 05

  Good context.

• 1:27:37Speaker 03

  It's like, that's what we're talking about.

• 1:27:39Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:27:40Speaker 03

  Like you get to where you'd basically, you're so used to it, you would eat it.

• 1:27:44Speaker 05

  They.

• 1:27:45Speaker 07

  According to CDC data.

• 1:27:47Speaker 03

  Am I wrong?

• 1:27:48Speaker 06

  No, I wouldn't eat it, but I had it under my fingernails plenty. Of times.

• 1:27:51Speaker 07

  According to the CDC, a typical three year old boy in the United States of America weighs thirty one to thirty three pounds.

• 1:28:00Speaker 03

  It's like a big turkey. Hold on.

• 1:28:03Speaker 07

  Giant.

• 1:28:04Speaker 06

  Okay, we've established that they're small.

• 1:28:06Speaker 07

  A very, very, very small thing. I was telling the story to my daughter Ina, who I think she was probably ten ish when this happened. But she was still scared as she'd been shooting twenty two a bunch, but she knew the four ten had some recoil. And one day I was like, look, she had shot it once, some tears had come. I'm like, no big deal. Let's, we'll come back in a couple of months. So time passes, we're back there. And I said, this time, sit in my lap. Well, I made the mistake of like leaning against her back.

• 1:28:41Speaker 03

  To solidify her shoulder.

• 1:28:42Speaker 07

  Yeah. And so her shoulder wasn't allowed to move back. And again, just a little four ten and we were just shooting a field load, not a, not a turkey load. But that was enough to like more tears and to like put that away for another six months. So again, like you can't imagine what a twelve gauge turkey load would do to a three year old.

• 1:29:05Speaker 03

  Here's another way of putting it. This hunt, this whole incident, they're so young, they will have no recollection.

• 1:29:13Speaker 07

  None, ever.

• 1:29:15Speaker 03

  When you think back to your first memories, your first memories are like four, five, six, they will have no recollection. I'm all for this dude. Bringing that child out.

• 1:29:30Speaker 07

  Yep.

• 1:29:31Speaker 03

  But I think after this incident, you would have to just say, for the record here. I was, I was wielding that shotgun. This is, this is not a conversation about mentored hunting.

• 1:29:42Speaker 07

  And I was.

• 1:29:43Speaker 03

  This should be a conversation about right here at me.

• 1:29:45Speaker 07

  And he was shooting.

• 1:29:46Speaker 03

  At movement. Yeah.

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• 1:32:01Speaker 05

  There's a detail that I, I found.

• 1:32:05Speaker 05

  The, the, this person did not have hunter's safety. They had a like a.

• 1:32:11Speaker 03

  Military exemption.

• 1:32:12Speaker 05

  Exemption, yeah, which, you know.

• 1:32:14Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 1:32:14Speaker 05

  It's something um to think about.

• 1:32:17Speaker 03

  But now there's all this conversation. Should we change, like, will Wisconsin change the law? Is it too early to go? And I'm like, don't confuse this for a mentored hunt situation.

• 1:32:28Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:32:29Speaker 03

  It's not a mentored hunt situation. That kid did not identify that target and aim that gun and pull that trigger.

• 1:32:34Speaker 05

  Yeah, I think one of the best things that's happened in the last, whatever, decade, maybe 20 years, however long it's been going on, is that a lot of states have gotten past this minimum age thing, 12, 14, and.

• 1:32:48Speaker 03

  But I do see pictures of likes, you know, I, I see pictures of some ages and I'm like, man, I don't think they can even comprehend.

• 1:32:55Speaker 05

  Six-year-old shooting a 200-inch whitetail.

• 1:32:58Speaker 03

  Like, I don't know that they comprehend what they're doing. I even had questions. And now, I don't, I would never tell people what to do, like, as I, it's like, I, I support the idea that's a family decision. I started my kids hunting turkeys at eight years old, and I did not think I waited too long. I worried that I did it too early. I never felt that I waited too long at eight.

• 1:33:18Speaker 05

  Yep, I think that's a good, good age.

• 1:33:19Speaker 03

  Never felt that I waited too long.

• 1:33:21Speaker 05

  Yeah, that, and, and the way it works here in Montana is they can hunt deer at 10, and I think that's just about right.

• 1:33:27Speaker 03

  Yep. I've never, I would never complain about the 10-year-old law here. When I was growing up in Michigan, to hunt deer with a gun, when I was a kid, no one paid attention to this rule. Everybody broke it because it was so ridiculous. You had to be 14.

• 1:33:39Speaker 05

  Yep, I paid attention.

• 1:33:40Speaker 03

  That's too late. That's too late.

• 1:33:42Speaker 05

  Yep.

• 1:33:43Speaker 03

  Three, too early.

• 1:33:48Speaker 03

  Alright.

• 1:33:49Speaker 05

  Paddlefish time?

• 1:33:50Speaker 03

  Yeah, we're gonna cut some stuff off the end.

• 1:33:52Speaker 05

  Yeah, I'll try, I'll try and move.

• 1:33:53Speaker 03

  No, no, man, hit the paddlefish then. I want to hear, you know.

• 1:33:56Speaker 05

  Um.

• 1:33:56Speaker 03

  The Spencer Report.

• 1:33:57Speaker 05

  He's been living under a rock.

• 1:33:59Speaker 03

  Spencer Report, Spencer Report.

• 1:34:02Speaker 05

  There's been some sick puppies

• 1:34:06Speaker 05

  doing some sick shit on Lake of the Ozarks uh in Missouri. Uh, multiple live paddlefish have been discovered with. You got the pictures up, Phil? Are we getting there?

• 1:34:16Speaker 03

  Multiples.

• 1:34:17Speaker 05

  Multiple, profane messages. Um, I'll let you read them if you can make them out. Again.

• 1:34:24Speaker 06

  This is, these are the pictures that I was sent. This is how they were cropped.

• 1:34:27Speaker 05

  Oh.

• 1:34:28Speaker 06

  You can, you can kinda see what that one says.

• 1:34:30Speaker 05

  So FU FMDC, which is Missouri Department of Conservation. Conservation. Um, I saw a picture of one that had paddlefish have this long snout called a rostrum. Um, I saw one that had been cut to kinda look like, um, those soft, what do they call them? Really? Like disgusting. Yeah. I don't know if we've got that picture or not.

• 1:34:57Speaker 06

  No, just.

• 1:34:57Speaker 05

  Here's someone etched 2021 into a paddlefish. So, uh. Like they're cutting it in with a razor blade. Yes.

• 1:35:03Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:35:03Speaker 05

  Some of them were found alive, but mutilated. Um. It, it, it's just like very sick, uh, examples of like animal cruelty. Um, the, the, the local reaction, the regional reaction around Lake of the Ozarks has obviously been pretty strong with shock and outrage. Um, local tackle shop manager said he'd never seen anything like this. There's concerns that it could hurt tourism in the area. Um. The investigation, they, they haven't found out anything yet, but they're, they're, they're looking at this as intentional acts of animal cruelty and vandalism against the species, um, possibly motivated by grievances against state conservation rules.

• 1:35:48Speaker 05

  Well, if you're writing. Yeah. FU Missouri Department of Conservation, I have a feeling that that's not possibly motivated by animal cruelty. Um. They're mad about the regulatory structure. Sure. And maybe something about keeping paddlefish. Yeah, they're mad about the regulations. Row, you know, there might, there, there's been some, plenty of examples of these fish being poached for their row, but this is not, this isn't that. Um, authorities say they're making some progress. Um, Publix encouraged to report tips. And, uh, a coalition of over a dozen fishing guide services in the area. Missouri, Arkansas, Oklahoma, they've all pledged, uh, to chip in rewards that, that are exceeding $15,000

• 1:36:33Speaker 05

  right now, leading to a conviction. With that kinda money, it's, if someone saw something, someone's probably gonna, gonna report. Yeah, it's a win-win. Like if you knew who was doing this, one, they gotta quit. Yeah. So you can help them, make them quit by turning.

• 1:36:49Speaker 03

  And then you get fifteen K in scratch.

• 1:36:51Speaker 05

  Yeah, but it it's gross and whenever something like this kind of thing, this is a little, this is pretty, pretty strong example of it, but like, I always worry like when, when a goose is like walking around a local lake with an like a arrow sticking out of it, um, like it gets me worried about the perception of hunters. And in this case, the perception, like the general perception of fishermen, like just a week ago, maybe. Um, they found a mule deer doe dead in Roundup, Montana that had been shot with a blowgun, a blow dart killed it. Um, it's like that kind of thing, like I think the worry is it's like, oh, those hunters, you know, kind of thing.

• 1:37:36Speaker 05

  And it shouldn't, it, we, we shouldn't have to defend ourselves against stuff like this.

• 1:37:43Speaker 05

  It's crazy.

• 1:37:43Speaker 03

  No, it's kind of gruesome photos, man.

• 1:37:45Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:37:46Speaker 03

  And the things you're talking about like a, like a very long living fish.

• 1:37:50Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:37:50Speaker 03

  And then you're also kind of like, in some cases, you're mortally wounding it. It's like just getting all infected and dying.

• 1:37:56Speaker 05

  Yeah. Yeah, it's gross.

• 1:37:59Speaker 03

  On that note.

• 1:38:01Speaker 05

  Here's a segue. Spencer has a tattoo of a paddlefish. It's his favorite animal. How about that?

• 1:38:06Speaker 03

  How do you know?

• 1:38:07Speaker 05

  How do I know?

• 1:38:08Speaker 03

  That was a joke.

• 1:38:11Speaker 05

  Each year, there are a few consistent.

• 1:38:18Speaker 05

  I was trying to tell you that this would be a segue for you.

• 1:38:21Speaker 03

  Oh, you were offering that up? On that note.

• 1:38:24Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:38:24Speaker 03

  Spencer.

• 1:38:25Speaker 05

  Uh huh.

• 1:38:26Speaker 03

  Over there, uh, his favorite animal is the paddlefish.

• 1:38:29Speaker 05

  That's right.

• 1:38:30Speaker 03

  And he has a paddlefish tattoo.

• 1:38:31Speaker 05

  Exactly.

• 1:38:31Speaker 03

  By golly.

• 1:38:32Speaker 05

  Now each year, there are a few consistent meteor showers that give you your best chance at seeing shooting stars. I think the biggest one is in August. There's also another notable one in November, December.

• 1:38:42Speaker 03

  Generally occur about the same time each year as the earth passes through an area that has a trail of dusty debris. Uh, that was left by a comet or an asteroid, uh, and that's happening right now as we sit here. One of these is happening tonight. Spooky. April twenty one is the peak of the Lyrids meteor shower. Really? This meteor shower, uh, it's always in late April, roughly April seventeen to April twenty six, but tonight and tomorrow night, April twenty second. Are the two best nights of the whole show. Uh, these shooting stars are best viewed from the northern hemisphere after moon set and before dawn. So for much of the country. That means your best viewing hours are between midnight and six AM. Uh, that doesn't mean that you won't see shooting stars at ten PM. You will. It just won't be quite as spectacular.

• 1:39:28Speaker 03

  Uh, as that like midnight to, to six AM window. Uh, the Lyrids meteors, they don't tend to have a long train of light, uh, but these are prone to creating bright flashes. Known as fireballs. Uh, here's some tips from NASA on good stargazing for this meteor shower. Uh, the first one's obvious. Just get away from light pollution. That means leaving the city or simply turning off your porch light. Focus your eyes in the darkest part of the sky, uh, and if the whole sky is dark and you're able to be picky. For this meteor shower, it's best to cheat your eyes to the east rather than the west. Uh, NASA says it takes about thirty minutes for your eyes to fully adapt. Uh, to the darkness. So give yourself at least an hour to guarantee a glimpse. Uh, as I said earlier, the darker the sky, the better the show.

• 1:40:10Speaker 03

  Tonight and tomorrow night, we actually have a waxing crescent moon, which means just a sliver of it is illuminated. That's good news. For stargazers as well. Uh, humans have been observing this for as long as, you know, we've been on earth. There are written accounts going back to six eighty seven B C. That's two thousand seven hundred years ago. About the Lyrids meteor shower, uh, one Chinese writer, uh, he, he said this. On the fourth month of the summer of year seven, at night, the sky is so bright. That some fixed stars become invisible because of the meteor shower at midnight, the stars fell like rain. So then that's what you have a chance to experience. Now during the peak of the Lyrids, which is again tonight, tomorrow night, April twenty one, April twenty two.

• 1:40:52Speaker 03

  You can expect to see about a dozen shooting stars, uh, at its peak, but some years it's, it's better than others. Uh, the, the Lyrids, wh- when it's really good, that's called, uh, what is it? A meteor outburst. So in nineteen twenty-two and nineteen eighty-two, the Lyrids produced ninety meteors per hour. And in eighteen oh three, observers saw seven hundred per hour, which is one shooting star every five seconds.

• 1:41:18Speaker 07

  Wow.

• 1:41:18Speaker 03

  So a dozen is what you'd expect for a baseline these next couple nights, but it has a chance to be even more grand than that. Although its peak is right now as we sit here, extra shooting stars will be visible into the weekend. So as we exit the debris field on Sunday, if you're at Turkey Camp this weekend, if you're out fishing in the dark, keep your eyes to the sky.

• 1:41:38Speaker 07

  I'm gonna park my car out so people think someone's already there watching. And then I'm gonna have it all to myself, man. I'm gonna be watching. No one else can watch.

• 1:41:48Speaker 03

  If you do happen to witness a spectacular fireball during the Lyrids, which as I said, you know, is earlier. As I said earlier in the meteor shower, it's known for producing fireballs rather than like long streaks of light. Then you should go report that to the American Meteor Society. And if they get enough reports, it becomes a confirmed fireball. So I pulled a random. One of these confirmed fireballs from last year to show you how the process works. This was from March seven, twenty twenty-five. This fireball was not part of the Lyrids meteor shower, as it was about six weeks before that. Phil has a picture of it here showing you. How these reports are gathered. It was four forty a.m. mountain time.

• 1:42:31Speaker 03

  Four people witnessed a fireball that's traveling from east to west at a downward angle. It's since been categorized. This is event one four one four, two thousand twenty-five. So we have our first observer. This was Reagan in Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, who says it's an orange fireball. They leave a note with the American Meteor Society saying, so grateful to have experienced this. Our next observer is James in Bismarck, North Dakota. James reports the fireball was light blue. In white, he says it was very bright. At first I thought it was a plane moving across the sky. Until I realized that it was heading towards the ground. Then it clicked that it was a fireball. It reminded me of the

• 1:43:11Speaker 03

  fuel streak of an incoming missile. I don't know how James knows that, but he said it reminded him of that. Where do you see him saying that? Which one?

• 1:43:21Speaker 06

  Under persistent train.

• 1:43:22Speaker 03

  Oh, I see. The third observer is Brooke in Townsend, Montana. It's just down the road from us. Brooke says it had a smoke trail with shades of light blue, orange and white. She simply says that it was wild. Now here's our fourth. Brooke. And it doesn't tell us that. And then here's our fourth report. I was, I'm always looking out for guys around the office. Spencer in Bozeman, Montana is our fourth witness here. Who's that? I like the sound. Dark as that? I know. I like the sound of this guy. He reports the fireball lasted about three seconds. It was white. Here's his quote. I spend a lot of time outside at night. This was the brightest meteor I've ever seen. Excellent report. Yeah, I mean, I trust that person. Cause he establishes credentials.

• 1:44:07Speaker 03

  You're not a prowler, are you? No, no. I was, I was thinking back, what was I doing at four 30 a.m.? I was in my hot tub. I, I had just got done traveling. I had a shoot, I shot a roast that week. I had two episodes of trivia. My whole sleep schedule's off. So if, if I like wake up super like that, I'll just go out in the hot tub. I was out in the hot tub and I saw this fireball and then I went. And reported.

• 1:44:30Speaker 06

  You woke up early. You weren't, this wasn't like coming down after a long night.

• 1:44:34Speaker 03

  It was like, it was like bed at eight a.m. up early and, and I reported it and I got to be part of event one four. Congratulations. Yeah, thank you. So if you see a particularly spectacular fireball this weekend or anytime, you know, you should go do some citizen science. And, and report it to the American Meteor Society. It's valuable data for them. There's a sign up that says, report a fireball. It's fun and easy. Mm hmm.

• 1:44:58Speaker 06

  You should get a ticket.

• 1:44:59Speaker 03

  Was it an observer for? Yeah, I reported a fireball. It was easy. It's, it asks you 12 questions and some you're like, oh, what is the answer to that? You like really have to.

• 1:45:09Speaker 06

  So when you see one of these things, uh, you know, put yourself in that place like where did it start? Where did it end? What color was it roughly? How much time did it take for it to cross the sky? That way you can give AMS a good report.

• 1:45:20Speaker 03

  Excellent job, man. It was a great report.

• 1:45:23Speaker 06

  Hats off.

• 1:45:23Speaker 03

  Here's the thing I'm thinking about.

• 1:45:25Speaker 06

  Yep.

• 1:45:25Speaker 03

  If I tell my kids about this, they're gonna wanna stay up or get up. And if they get up, then they're gonna be all cranky tomorrow.

• 1:45:30Speaker 06

  Uh huh.

• 1:45:31Speaker 03

  So it's like, do you go with, as a parent, do you go with like enhancing their lives? And then dealing with them when they're, when they wake up and they're talking about how tired they are?

• 1:45:41Speaker 06

  Yep.

• 1:45:42Speaker 03

  Or do you not tell them about it? I have an answer to this. In our house, I'm like, you can set an alarm and get up if you want. And then I just go to sleep.

• 1:45:53Speaker 06

  Should wait till they're older where they can truly experience the whole, they can appreciate the whole experience, you know?

• 1:45:58Speaker 03

  I'm probably gonna tell them about it. But what will happen is their mom will get them up. She's better about stuff like that. Yeah.

• 1:46:05Speaker 06

  The gambler.

• 1:46:06Speaker 03

  All right, buddy. Thanks for joining the news show. Next week, Steve on Colorado. I'm telling you what.

• 1:46:13Speaker 07

  We promise it'll come.

• 1:46:14Speaker 03

  Yeah, and I've been bumping, um, and I've been bumping, uh, the report on the Monte Verde archaeological site. We might end up with a, with a episode that's just.

• 1:46:24Speaker 07

  I know. Eighty minutes of Steve just talking directly into the camera.

• 1:46:28Speaker 03

  Yeah, all the stuff that keeps getting bumped. Cause my stuff always at the end. There's no time to get to it. Thanks for joining the news show. Hot, eh, send in hot news tips if you get them. We'll cover them. Take care.

• 1:47:05Speaker 03

  If you spend a lot of time outdoors, you got dogs, you got kids, you know how hard it is to keep the floor of your rig clean. A thing we do in our, in our little fleet of vehicles that have in my household, if you go look, open the door on any one of them, they all got weather tech. We get a car, we throw the mats out and put in WeatherTech. That way, when there's a mess, it's like your kid's fault, your dog's fault, it's the weather's fault, doesn't matter. You take them suckers out and hose them off and you're back to being good as new. I'm telling you, if you've got a vehicle, put WeatherTech in there, you're gonna be happy you did it. And check this out, American-made floor liners and cargo liners, okay? They laugh in the face of all weather. Go take a look for yourself today at weathertech.com.

• 1:47:45Speaker 03

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• 1:48:31Speaker 03

  When you're miles deep in the mountains and carrying everything you need on your back, your boots aren't gear you think about, they're what you depend on. That's why western hunters trust Zamborland. Man, I'm telling you, I've been running around in some Zamborlands, they are so comfortable and just well-built and feel great in the hills. Family-owned and handcrafted in Italy through three generations, Zamborland boots combine nearly a century of boot-making expertise with premium materials and new innovations for any pursuit, game, and terrain. They're comfortable, supportive, resolable, and built for the long haul. From rocky desert to steep shale slopes, Zamborland's perfected their craft to ensure your success.

• 1:49:13Speaker 03

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• 1:49:24Speaker 00

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