Pod Insights The MeatEater Podcast Ep. 857: Turkey Season Changes, the Death Valley Super Bloom, and Bad Poachers About this episode Steven Rinella https://www.instagram.com/stevenrinella/?hl=en and the MeatEater crew discuss: The Turkey Week Giveaway Sweepstakes https://store.themeateater.com/pages/giveaway-sweepstakes?srsltid=AfmBOoqQf9WL0BtkeWYE9BU5UbGignE3RDLR-FbCCta7lkAiBdmErXKF; a giant moray eel; biking and fly fishing; Delta Waterfowl hen houses https://deltawaterfowl.org/what-we-do/duck-production/hen-houses/?gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=18040194656&gbraid=0AAAAABb10mV7oQ7U9oye9ukcshNZAO8iV&gclid=CjwKCAjwhLPOBhBiEiwA8_wJHPLZVRdrlQYkHgCcTcqSrz0OgweIiT8Pr3YMpwPjpyhhpCx86hdKMxoCmtsQAvD_BwE; more on TSS and tungsten; nibbling on nuts; turkey season changes; the Death Valley Super Bloom; bad poacher dudes; Shiras moose; and more.
Outro credit: "The Screaming Song" written by George Alan Sparhawk
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Transcript 18,665 words · 13 speakers
Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:00 Speaker 00 This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.
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1:04 Steven Rinella? OnX Hunt is full of great features. I always say it's my favorite app. I use the thing on a daily basis. Here's a new feature I'm very excited about. OnX Hunt's Location Sharing puts your whole group on one live map, so you can look and tell where everyone is. And if at night it gets dark and someone's not back yet, you don't got to guess what happened to them or where they are. You can just look and tell where they are. It has implications for safety, coordination. I can't even list all the ways in which this is helpful. You opt in, and then when you guys are done, the data goes away. It's not stored. Keep the folks in your deer camp on the same page with Location Sharing from OnX Hunt.
1:45 Steven Rinella? Welcome to the news show. On this week's show, we got an interesting tale about a big-ass Moore a eel. Spencer Newharth can't ride a bike and fish at the same time. Testicle jerky news. Are Shiras moose going away, but not in the way you think? Poachers get serious in North Dakota, and Max gets serious about reporting on those poachers. Spencer Newharth stops to tell the flowers. Get it?
2:12 Speaker 03 We'll see if we get it.
2:14 Steven Rinella? Nate Mason has a report on TSS and more, but first, the Moore a eel. Let's hear it. Okay. This is the R news. Listen to this.
2:27 Steven Rinella? Uh, we were down in the, the, we went to the Bahamas for spring break. Um, folks who watch the show, we filmed the episode some time ago with Cameron Kirk Connell. And Cameron Kirk Connell, if you're, um, such a listener that you listen to our Close Calls story, stories, the Close Call series. There's a Close Calls where a guy, a spear fisherman shoots another spear fisherman in the fin. Who's passed out, he's blacked out, shallow water blackout and he's sinking to the bottom of the ocean. Cameron Kirk Connell is able to get close enough to him, he's on his way up and he sees his buddy sinking, dying. And he shoots him in the fin with a spear gun. And then they were able to hoist him up and they resuscitate him and save his life.
3:13 Steven Rinella? We're with him and his family, my family, his family in the Bahamas spearfishing. And we were primarily, uh, hole hunting. Like you go down there, you just kind of go over the reefs, you kick or drift in the current over the reefs. And now and then you'll catch a hogfish out doing his business. But you spook a lot of groupers. And when you spook a grouper, you just follow them. And that grouper is going to move and move and he'll go into a hole, but he won't like it and he'll leave the hole. He'll try another hole. He'll go into a hole and a little grouper will come out of the hole, then he'll come out of the hole. And eventually you follow him, follow him, follow him and he'll find a hole.
3:49 Speaker 03 And a hole up.
3:50 Steven Rinella? And you hover over the hole until you're like, he's in that hole. And then you start hole hunting them. And it could turn into, chasing them into a hole is one thing. Killing them is a whole other thing and then getting them back out of the hole is a whole other thing. So it, it turns into like a real, it could turn into a real fistfight. So my kid goes down, we get a big black grouper in a hole. My kid goes down and, and, uh, it was a 30 pound grouper. My kid goes down and like glances it in the head, but doesn't like wings it in the head, but doesn't even hurt it.
4:29 Steven Rinella? Cam's kid goes down and gets at the tail.
4:34 Steven Rinella? It's fighting around and all of a sudden, and I go down to try to get it out, but the spear shaft has pulled free of the grouper's tail. The grouper comes out of that hole and goes into a new hole. Cam's now with his flashlight, trying to look around and find them in this new, it's like, some of these things are like Tora Bora. I don't know if you remember back to the war in Afghanistan. They're like the Tora Bora cave complex. You're appreciating. Oh, yeah. Nate Mason's appreciating. Oh, joined today by Max Barda, Nate Mason, Crinch Neiders here, Spencer Newhart, Brody Henderson. So,
5:12 Steven Rinella? he's down looking around with his light and I see he's like looking into one hole and it's this Tora Bora complex and some of these holes have chimneys in them. And you could sometimes you get them into a hole and you'll sometimes peer into a chimney and locate them.
5:28 Steven Rinella? He's got his head and he's to his waist in a hole, looking around. It's 30 feet of water. So I'm on the surface and I see a moray eel, the likes of which, I mean, like this eel just keeps coming and coming and coming and he, cause he knows the troubles are brewing. They're like sharks. Like he knows. A big one, though. Yeah. He knows what's up. How big you think? How big? Yeah. Probably six feet long, bigger round as your, bigger round as your thigh. Hmm. I mean, like enough of a one, he comes and all of a sudden he enters the same, not the same entrance that Cam's in, but another entrance to the same hole.
6:12 Steven Rinella? My boy dives down to alert him, cause they'll bite you. And as my boy's descending to alert him, Cam's coming up, but I can tell by his body language, he doesn't know, he didn't encounter the eel. He's coming up casually. Okay? He comes up casually like, oh my God, dude, I thought you were gonna get bit in the face. That big eel went into the cave complex.
6:39 Steven Rinella? He have it. I don't know. I'm just hanging around like I don't, you know, this guy is the master. Um, he's, you know, one of the, one of the like, this is gonna sound like, like he's among the top handful of spear fishermen that there are. Okay. So he's like, oh, he's in the hole. And he says that grouper's coming out. And we're just hovering there. And a while later, here comes a crab out of that hole that doesn't like being in that hole. And my boy goes down and gets the crab. And we wait a while and wait a while. And sure enough that here comes that grouper out substantially more wounded.
7:20 Steven Rinella? Like was getting mauled, was getting mauled in the hole. By the eel.
7:28 Steven Rinella? And he's not in a good, he's not in a good place anymore.
7:31 Speaker 03 That thing was just down there taking chunks out of him.
7:34 Steven Rinella? You know, we. After getting shot twice. So then we went down and shot, then we went and shot the grouper for real. Then he went into another hole. Wow. And then I was able to wrestle him out of that hole, but he was not, Cam, just Cam said, just like instantly, he's like, oh, he's coming out. You know how you got like bird dogs? Yeah. You need like grouper eels. Yeah. Oh. Yeah. Train them. That's a good idea. If you had an eel in your pocket. And that grouper goes into that network and you just. Sick boy. Yeah.
8:05 Speaker 04 You can't, you, can you spear a more eel? I don't know. I've, I've seen them.
8:10 Steven Rinella? I've talked to people that have done it. You got your hands full when you do that. I've been told.
8:15 Speaker 04 Okay.
8:16 Steven Rinella? I can't even imagine what would be like to have. Cam said in a, in an extreme situation. Cause Bahamas is pole spear only. You can't use a spear gun. So it's all pole sprees, but they have slip tips on them. Like a harpoon head, a detachable head. He said, if you had to.
8:37 Steven Rinella? Um, and you were protecting yourself, you might, but you're just probably just gonna forget about your spear. Like, you're not gonna get it.
8:45 Speaker 04 Yeah, yeah.
8:46 Steven Rinella? And this thing, I mean, no. I've been bit by those suckers. They hurt, man.
8:51 Speaker 05 How'd the grouper taste?
8:53 Steven Rinella? You know, I didn't eat that particular grouper, but I think Brody did. Did you eat a bit of grouper flay that was kind of missing a chunk on the tail?
9:01 Speaker 05 Yeah.
9:01 Steven Rinella? Yeah, the maul'd end.
9:02 Speaker 03 And you could see where it was messed up a little bit.
9:04 Steven Rinella? Okay, yeah.
9:05 Speaker 03 Yeah.
9:05 Steven Rinella? You, you enjoy it?
9:07 Speaker 03 Oh, yes.
9:07 Steven Rinella? Okay.
9:08 Speaker 05 That thing had the, like, dark cutter equivalent end of life.
9:11 Steven Rinella? I don't think that works on fish, man.
9:13 Speaker 05 Wildly stressed.
9:14 Speaker 03 Yeah, cuz all fish die, like, stressed out.
9:16 Steven Rinella? Yeah, I don't think that works on fish.
9:17 Speaker 03 Whether you rod reel them or not.
9:18 Speaker 05 Hmm, sure.
9:19 Steven Rinella? But he had a, yeah, he had a good, we, we, we messed with that fish for probably forty-five minutes.
9:24 Speaker 05 Damn, what an adventure.
9:25 Steven Rinella? Though, they turned into some wrestling matches, man. Uh, alright, you did, you did a bicycle trip, Spencer?
9:31 Speaker 05 Mm-hmm. Yeah, I've been, I've been working on planning this for like a month, just getting my, my gear ready for it. I was going to bike and fly fish at the same time. Um, the fly fishing was no good, though. I was in Yellowstone National Park this time of year. Ninety-five percent of their water is closed to angling.
9:47 Steven Rinella? Why's, why's that?
9:48 Speaker 05 Um.
9:49 Speaker 06 Spawning purposes or not?
9:50 Speaker 05 I think to protect some native spawners. Um, just to, like, in general, give fish a break down there. So, I don't think it's uncommon even in, like, Montana on non-national park.
10:00 Steven Rinella? What is, is there, like, an opening day or something?
10:02 Speaker 03 There is.
10:02 Speaker 05 There is an opening day, yep. Uh, that comes around in May, I think, for most of the water, but other parts have different openers. Anyway, so, like, five percent of water is open right now, so I was going to bike into there, as well as, like, probably eighty percent of their roads are closed as well.
10:17 Steven Rinella? Did Mrs. Newharf come with you?
10:18 Speaker 05 No, no.
10:19 Steven Rinella? Solo?
10:20 Speaker 05 Uh, me and a, me and a buddy from town here. Um, was fixing to bike and fly.
10:26 Steven Rinella? It's weird, I never got a...
10:28 Speaker 05 You don't like Yellowstone though.
10:30 Steven Rinella? That's true. I like to say no. I like to be able to say no.
10:33 Speaker 03 He would take his e-bike.
10:34 Speaker 05 Next time, next time.
10:35 Steven Rinella? I like to be able to say no.
10:37 Speaker 05 Uh, so I, I biked in, um, started fishing. The fishing was no good. Runoff has started a little early this year. And that's like 5% of water that I could fish. It was just too dirty, uh, too turbid, couldn't, couldn't turn up any fish. Had one off.
10:52 Steven Rinella? So when you pitched this segment, I think Brody pitched it on your behalf.
10:55 Speaker 05 Well.
10:56 Steven Rinella? It was, it was in anticipation of all the fish you were gonna catch.
10:59 Speaker 05 Oh yeah, man. It was gonna be good. Listen, I was gonna, I was gonna get so distracted. Yeah, I was gonna be so distracted with fishing that it was just gonna be a fishing trip. It wasn't gonna be a bike trip anymore. The other thing happened. The fishing was so bad that it was just a bike trip. So I ended up biking 48 miles.
11:14 Steven Rinella? Oh, really?
11:15 Speaker 05 In Yellowstone this weekend. Yeah.
11:16 Steven Rinella? Okay.
11:17 Speaker 05 And I spent four hours fishing, uh, with no fish caught.
11:19 Steven Rinella? Not a nibble?
11:21 Speaker 05 Uh, there was a nibble. I, I had a trout off, read a streamer, had him on for probably one and a half seconds and he was gone.
11:27 Speaker 03 Long distance release.
11:28 Speaker 05 Long distance release. Yeah. Couldn't, couldn't even identify.
11:31 Steven Rinella? Did you see anything crazy?
11:33 Speaker 05 Crazy? No. Bison, I mean, what you'd expect to see in Yellowstone.
11:37 Speaker 03 No dead, no dead critters laying in rivers with bears on top of them?
11:40 Speaker 05 No, I was ready for bears though. They had, uh, bears show up earlier this year, five days sooner.
11:45 Steven Rinella? My neighbor just had one in his garbage. Couldn't believe it.
11:47 Speaker 03 Really?
11:47 Steven Rinella? You know, already.
11:48 Speaker 05 Bison, elk, coyote, muskrat. Uh, just some standard Yellowstone.
11:52 Steven Rinella? Saw some scraps, did you?
11:54 Speaker 05 One, one. We got a good view of him because I was on a bridge looking down. I never seen him do this before, but at one point, he spent probably like 30 seconds, uh, he just gave himself to the current and floated down the current and he looked like he was totally careless. And then he dove under after that.
12:10 Speaker 03 I heard a river trap is real good in national parks.
12:13 Steven Rinella? No, we do it hard, dude. We do great down there.
12:15 Speaker 05 I bet you do okay.
12:16 Speaker 03 Can't we have a story coming up on something about that?
12:19 Steven Rinella? Oh, we stack them up down there, man. It's weird because no one else hits it.
12:23 Speaker 05 It's a good season.
12:24 Steven Rinella? We can never figure out what's going on, you know?
12:26 Speaker 05 The season never closes.
12:27 Steven Rinella? You always feel like you're doing something wrong.
12:27 Speaker 05 Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah.
12:29 Steven Rinella? Uh, all right, Spencer, tell us about the hunt giveaway, man.
12:31 Speaker 05 Uh, well.
12:32 Steven Rinella? Is that your job? Or is that my job?
12:34 Speaker 05 You, you do that one.
12:36 Steven Rinella? Oh, okay.
12:36 Speaker 05 And then I'll cover the next one.
12:37 Steven Rinella? Oh, that's right. All right, uh, right now, turkey week. Turkey week is, uh, now at the meat eater store. Uh, so help you get ready to spring. We've rounded up some of our favorite gear for chasing gobblers. Whether you're chasing them Miriam's or them, uh, them, them hard gobbling Easterns.
12:56 Steven Rinella? I heard one rip the other day from my house. In Easter?
12:58 Speaker 03 Yeah, I told you they were going and then we had bad weather and they just looked sad and like there's nothing worse looking than a wet sorry looking just.
13:06 Steven Rinella? You know, before anyone gets excited about coming hunting by my house, I'll save you the hassle. It's not a hunting area.
13:12 Speaker 03 Yeah.
13:13 Steven Rinella? But it does get town. It gets like town birds. Yeah. Town bears too. Yeah, cause town bears, town birds. Anyways, I'm out there. Nice, perfectly nice morning and up the hill. Up the hill there.
13:26 Steven Rinella? And I call my neighbor. I'm like, sons of bitches are gobbling early.
13:30 Speaker 03 Did you call back to that bird at all?
13:32 Steven Rinella? No, I ran in to call my neighbor. I don't know why. I'm like, they're gobbling early, damn it. He's like, we gotta go quicker. And then it snowed.
13:42 Speaker 03 Yep.
13:42 Steven Rinella? And I'm like, this is gonna knock the gobble right out of them. There's a good amount of birds up there. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, what was I saying? Oh, turkey week. We got brand new meat eater, logoware, logo ware and seasonings, turkey calls from Phelps, uh, game calls. I'm holding the the prime cuts pack right here. Signature Yanni. So it's, it's clay from top to bottom. It's Steve signature cut, which isn't in there because mine's right here. The Yanni and the clay. So from bottom to top, it's best caller, second best caller, worst caller.
14:21 Steven Rinella? Right? That's the way to think about it. But think about it like this. My cut is meant for dudes who just want to make good turkey sounds. And they're not like gonna be out of competition. Cause it's just an easy, low pressure cut. You know what I'm talking about?
14:36 Speaker 03 Yeah.
14:37 Steven Rinella? It's a low pressure cut.
14:39 Speaker 03 Did they stop making the Jake break?
14:41 Steven Rinella? I don't know if they still, that was a low, that's a low pressure cut too. It's like, it's like easy, it's easy. My cut makes it easy to, to, to be not, to, to be a novice diaphragm caller and get where you're making some sounds because you don't have to have so much, ugh. And you don't have, it's just an easy to use call.
15:01 Speaker 05 Phil Robertson always said that a live mallard would not win a duck calling contest. And so that's what
15:06 Steven Rinella? Sure.
15:07 Speaker 05 Steve
15:07 Steven Rinella? Oh, people's, yeah.
15:08 Speaker 05 He's not looking to win a turkey calling contest.
15:10 Steven Rinella? No, I kill, I kill a lot of turkeys.
15:12 Speaker 05 Mm hmm.
15:13 Steven Rinella? But I would never win a turkey calling contest.
15:14 Speaker 05 Sure.
15:15 Steven Rinella? But I, but I think of the calling as being like a part of a whole bunch of other parts.
15:19 Speaker 05 Mm hmm.
15:20 Speaker 06 I want to ask to try it out, but I know where it's been.
15:24 Steven Rinella? Yep. Where was I?
15:27 Steven Rinella? Camel from First Light decoys from Dave Smith decoys packs and accessories from FH F geared a whole lot more. Up to 20% off right now. Okay. Uh, also first light has the ultimate spring turkey giveaway going on. It's worth over 13,000 bucks. From now until Sunday, April 5th. Is that Easter?
15:49 Speaker 05 It is.
15:50 Speaker 03 Mm hmm.
15:51 Steven Rinella? It's like early this year, isn't it?
15:52 Speaker 06 Very early.
15:53 Steven Rinella? Okay.
15:55 Steven Rinella? You get double entries for every $25 spent. So 20 entries for every. Does that make sense? You get double entries for every
16:04 Speaker 03 It was 10 per, now it's 20 per.
16:06 Steven Rinella? Oh. You get a whole bunch of entries when you buy stuff.
16:09 Speaker 05 Mm hmm.
16:10 Speaker 03 Yeah.
16:10 Steven Rinella? And, um, part of the turkey hunt giveaways, you win a hunt.
16:15 Steven Rinella? So you can win a hunt and all the gear to go hunting at this deal. Check it out now through April 5th at store dot the meat eater dot com. Over to you, Spencer.
16:28 Speaker 05 Uh, there's another giveaway on the meat eater.com. This is a photo contest regarding uncommon turkey colors. Uh, the article is called odd turkey plumage photo contest where you can enter a picture of the rare turkeys that you've seen or killed. This is supporting the work that Dr. Mike Chamberlain is doing with the Wild Turkey Lab to do research on wild turkey DNA, genetic diversity, inbreeding, potential gene flow and hybridization. Uh, the Wild Turkey Lab wants you to send genetic samples of your turkey's tongue, but our turkey plumage contest is just for photos. You can go enter them on our website and there are only two entries so far. You have until April 6th to enter the contest.
17:10 Speaker 03 Pretty good odds right now.
17:11 Speaker 05 There's three top prizes.
17:13 Steven Rinella? Cause you gotta shoot a weird colored turkey.
17:15 Speaker 05 Or see one, or see one. Uh, and there's three prizes we're giving away, uh, all sorts of really good gear. So if you, if you have a photo of a cool turkey you've killed or seen, you should go enter it. Now, if I was entering it. Here's what I would submit. This was a turkey I saw in 2014. I was leaving work, heading to class, and this was at a go-kart track. And this turkey was hanging around. And I turned around.
17:38 Steven Rinella? Kind of a domestic-y vibe to it.
17:40 Speaker 05 Well, so this, this area has some colonies that are known for their large turkey populations. So this could have been one that had like crossed with a domestic or- What do you mean colonies? Uh, like a Hutterite colony. Um, they raise a lot of domestic turkeys.
17:57 Steven Rinella? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
17:57 Speaker 05 Guys, we'll talk about if you want to kill a smoke-faced turkey, you go hunting near the colony.
18:03 Steven Rinella? This is a good question for Chamberlain. When I, people are always sending me these.
18:07 Speaker 05 Uh huh.
18:07 Steven Rinella? So far, two people this spring have sent me the, the smoked turkey, smoked face.
18:12 Speaker 05 It's the most common of the uncommon plumage.
18:15 Steven Rinella? What I see when I'm seeing that, and I'm open to corrections, and you might win yourself a prize. What I see when I'm seeing that is domestic introgression.
18:22 Speaker 05 Sure.
18:24 Steven Rinella? There he goes again.
18:25 Speaker 05 Whatever you say, Steve.
18:27 Steven Rinella? Spencer, it hit me last night. When you're telling Spencer stuff, he'll sometimes say, sure. And I was like, there's something about it. And Brody says, it's the same thing as going, whatever you say, buddy.
18:43 Speaker 05 I'm just trying to be a good, active listener, tell you that I'm, I'm here.
18:47 Steven Rinella? And I was like, that's it. Brody hit it. It's, it's, whatever you say.
18:51 Speaker 05 Sure.
18:52 Steven Rinella? Sure, yeah, whatever you say.
18:55 Steven Rinella? Sometimes it's honest. Sometimes it's like, whatever you say, buddy.
18:59 Speaker 05 So go enter that contest, themeaditor.com. Uh, show Steve all of your smoke-faced turkeys.
19:04 Steven Rinella? Yep. And I'll say to you, yeah, looks like domestic introgression. But there's gotta be something to it, and I'm sure, we'll, we'll ask Chamberlain. We'll ask Mike Chamberlain if we need to. Uh, Max came to me, uh, the other day and said, hey, um, well, first off, we have a pond. We, our office has a pond.
19:22 Speaker 05 You have a couple of ponds.
19:23 Steven Rinella? Yeah. Uh, we're on a little, it's like a, I don't even call it like a-
19:26 Speaker 06 Business park?
19:27 Speaker 05 Yeah, business park.
19:28 Steven Rinella? Yeah, we're like in a campus. There's a, there's a, there's a little ditch that comes through it, and there's a couple dredged out ponds. And Brody estimates the trout population at four.
19:36 Speaker 05 Four to five.
19:38 Speaker 06 Not many.
19:39 Steven Rinella? Brody believes there to be four to five trout and one muskrat is in our pond. Last night, there was two geese in it. Hmm, we should start tagging the fish.
19:46 Speaker 04 I saw a dead raccoon floating.
19:48 Speaker 06 On that north pond?
19:49 Speaker 04 Yes.
19:50 Speaker 06 Yeah.
19:50 Steven Rinella? Okay, there's a dead coon in there. There's two geese, there's a pair of mallards.
19:54 Speaker 03 Sounds like a bona fide farm pond.
19:56 Steven Rinella? It is. There's no garbage because we cleaned it out last year.
19:58 Steven Rinella? There's a new piece of garbage. I was looking at it. At first, I thought it was something floating dead and I realized it's new garbage. We gotta do a new cleanup because there's new garbage in the pond. It keeps moving back and forth from side to side. Max said, hey, who do I gotta ask to put a nesting box on the pond? And I said, I don't know, but yes.
20:20 Steven Rinella? So talk about that, Max.
20:21 Speaker 06 Yeah, so, uh, we're trying to raise, uh, some ducks this year, this spring. Um, Delta Waterfall, um, came up with these houses. They're called hen houses where it's just a wire cylinder. Um, basically on a pole over the water.
20:39 Steven Rinella? Mm-hmm.
20:40 Speaker 06 And the reason why they came up with these.
20:42 Steven Rinella? That's a T-post, right?
20:43 Speaker 06 Yeah.
20:43 Steven Rinella? Okay.
20:44 Speaker 06 And the reason why they came up with these was, um, due to habitat change and predator increases, nest success dropped. And so they thought, oh, why don't we put something above the water that these nest predators can't get to? And so they came up with this hen house, um, back in like the 1990s. I think they've been around for like 35 years.
21:05 Steven Rinella? That's that old of a design.
21:06 Speaker 06 Yeah.
21:06 Steven Rinella? Cause you do have to be like a crack commando raccoon to get yourself up that T-post.
21:11 Speaker 06 I mean, it would be like, it would be like a squirrel climbing up a bird feeder almost, but it's like a really skinny pole.
21:16 Steven Rinella? Yeah. In water.
21:18 Speaker 06 Yeah, in water. Um, and so these were designed specifically for mallards.
21:24 Steven Rinella? Is that right?
21:25 Speaker 06 Yeah.
21:25 Steven Rinella? What makes them that way?
21:27 Speaker 06 I guess I don't have an answer for that.
21:29 Steven Rinella? But it fits what they like.
21:31 Speaker 06 Yeah, so, um. Uh, like, people think that mallards nest like, or ducks nest in water, but they actually nest away from the water. And then they hatch their duck lanes and walk to the water. Uh, but these hen houses put them right over the water. So those duck lanes, the first thing they do, they're right in the water. They don't have no traveling to do, um, no predators can get them. And so, um, I think I researched some, um, stats here and, um, sixty percent higher in a hen house than just a regular old nest.
22:07 Speaker 03 Survivability, I mean.
22:09 Speaker 06 So, yeah, successful nest. Um, so yeah, a hen can start using one of these and have a twelve, twelve times better odds as rather than six, uh, nesting in just the ground.
22:20 Steven Rinella? No kidding.
22:21 Speaker 03 Has anyone been poking around back there?
22:23 Speaker 06 I look every single morning.
22:24 Steven Rinella? What, what are the odds? You think a blackbird just makes a nest in there instead?
22:28 Speaker 06 Uh, that's a great question. I hope, I hope it doesn't. I'll shoot it out of there.
22:31 Steven Rinella? I haven't seen any red winged blackbirds down there.
22:33 Speaker 03 I've seen, uh, Canada geese nested in elevated platforms.
22:37 Speaker 06 Yeah.
22:38 Steven Rinella? Oh, they have something phone poles?
22:39 Speaker 03 Yeah.
22:40 Speaker 06 Yeah, but yeah, this is just like a wire cylinder. And so like, it's a perfect size for a duck to get in there. And that's it.
22:47 Speaker 03 So she's gotta fill it up with nesting material?
22:49 Speaker 06 No, yeah, it's already filled with straw, um, grass. And, um, that's another thing too. Mallards don't bring any kind of nest material to their nest.
22:59 Steven Rinella? Hmm. Are you serious?
23:01 Speaker 06 Yeah. So like a robin or like a bald eagle, they'll go around collecting sticks and like build a nest. A mallard will just like, sit there and like peck around and like.
23:11 Steven Rinella? Yeah, I guess like, not, cause I was saying, I, I stumbled into them hunting more else.
23:15 Speaker 06 Yeah.
23:16 Steven Rinella? I never thought about that.
23:17 Speaker 06 Yeah, they never bring.
23:17 Steven Rinella? They're not supplementing it. It's just in a little dish in the leaves.
23:21 Speaker 06 Yep. So, um, yeah, I'm hoping we can raise a, um, some duck lanes and, um.
23:29 Steven Rinella? Be great. If that, if that happens. First thing we'll see is we'll see a duck sitting on top of that thing.
23:33 Speaker 06 In it.
23:34 Steven Rinella? I'm thinking we'll see one standing on it. That's gonna be, in my mind, the day it happens. Is gonna be, someone's gonna see one standing on it.
23:42 Speaker 06 Yeah.
23:42 Steven Rinella? I don't know why.
23:43 Speaker 06 Yeah.
23:44 Steven Rinella? My little mind movie, that's what happens.
23:45 Speaker 04 We should set up a trail cam.
23:47 Speaker 06 Well, no, I've, well, we could do that, but if a, had mallard nest in there, I'm gonna be sitting there with the camera for a couple hours each day and just wait for those ducklings to come out of there. Cause I think it would be just an epic shot of ducklings just popping out.
24:02 Steven Rinella? Yeah, well, you could push them out, you know?
24:04 Speaker 06 You could do that.
24:05 Speaker 03 Swim out there and give that thing a shake.
24:08 Speaker 05 Do you envision a local or a migrator?
24:11 Speaker 06 Probably a local, for sure.
24:12 Speaker 05 Okay.
24:13 Speaker 06 Yeah, there's like a group, I mean, I wouldn't say a group, but there's probably like five to six pairs on our ponds right now. And so I'm hoping one of those hops in there. So.
24:24 Steven Rinella? That's great.
24:25 Speaker 06 Yeah.
24:25 Steven Rinella? I can't wait.
24:26 Speaker 05 Steve's got the best view of them.
24:27 Speaker 03 Make it more ducks, Max, that's great.
24:28 Speaker 06 Yeah. Um, yeah, and, uh, people can look at, uh, delta waterfall dot org, um, to find out more about these hen houses. And there's different programs where you can, um, donate some money and not actually like get hen houses.
24:41 Steven Rinella? See, that's what I was telling you, I want a couple. I know Just Wrong will put mine.
24:44 Speaker 06 Well, I, I know a guy.
24:45 Steven Rinella? Yeah.
24:46 Speaker 06 My buddy Garrett Humphrey, who helps out with the local chapter here in Bozeman, um, he's got a pile of them, so.
24:51 Steven Rinella? Yep, I'd like to do that.
24:53 Speaker 06 Yeah.
24:53 Steven Rinella? Just where to put them.
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25:25 Steven Rinella? I travel quite a bit, and when I'm home, it's very easy to stay on a rigid food routine and eat the right kinds of food at the right time. But when you're on the road, it's hard to stay in your routine and like diet can really start to fall apart. I've seen it, and that's why I like Athletic Greens. Now, AG1 is already the standard for daily foundational nutrition. AG1 Pro is what's next.
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26:27 Steven Rinella? Visit drinkag1.com/meateater and get an AG1 Pro Yeti Shaker in your AG1 Pro Welcome Kit. Again, that's drinkag1.com/meateater. Grab yours now. If you spend a lot of time outdoors, you got dogs, you got kids, you know how hard it is to keep the floor of your rig clean. A thing we do in our, in our little fleet of vehicles that I have in my household, if you go look, open the door on any one of them, they all got WeatherTech. We get a car, we throw the mats out and put in WeatherTech. Cause that way, when there's a mess, it's like your kid's fault, your dog's fault, it's the weather's fault, doesn't matter. You take them suckers out and hose them off and you're back to being good as new. I'm telling you, if you got a vehicle, put WeatherTech in there, you're gonna be happy you did it.
27:12 Steven Rinella? And check this out, American made floor liners and cargo liners, okay? They laugh in the face of all weather. Go take a look for yourself today at weathertech.com. Okay, it's time for corrections. Oh.
27:26 Speaker 07 Corrections. Corrections.
27:29 Steven Rinella? Okay.
27:32 Steven Rinella? Corrections today, the winner of today's corrections wins a set of Tacovus boots. I'm holding one up right here. But you can pick whatever ones you want. These may be Miss Sespin out on paternity leave. What size are those?
27:45 Speaker 05 10 and a half.
27:46 Steven Rinella? 10 and a half?
27:47 Speaker 05 No, I was just guessing.
27:48 Steven Rinella? Sespin out on paternity leave, but he, he wears a, he wears a square toe. Every time I touch this, I feel like I'm touching Seth's foot.
27:56 Steven Rinella? You can pick what you want. I'm telling you what though dude, just the leather.
28:02 Steven Rinella? Smells like brand new leather. Go pick out any Tacovas you want if you win the corrections. Now, we, we had to do something a little bit different. So, oh, Nate Mason's here. Nate Mason came up with this joke, a little late, but he came up with it. Better late than never. Yeah. Shit kickers for nit pickers. Oh, it's great. I love it. Most genius thing I've heard all week. Shit kickers for nit pickers. Uh, but here's the deal. So many corrections came in about TSS. Brody's, who, did you do TSS report? Lot of people fired up about TSS and don't worry because we're going to talk a lot about TSS today in the news segment here. So we're going to do a quick showdown.
28:41 Steven Rinella? Of, when, in order to win the boots, there's three corrections. But we're doing like a deal this week where there's, we gotta do a competition to enter the competition. So very quickly. Three TSS. The winner of this goes to the finals. Well, March Madness. It's like golf. No, it's like March Madness.
29:00 Speaker 03 I'm telling you what, this next round here, this first TSS round of corrections, these are some nit pickers, man.
29:09 Steven Rinella? Okay, shit kickers for nit pickers. Okay, so for a, for a spot in the finals. TSS correction one. My name is Ian and I'm, where's my glass? And I'm from upstate New York. While listening to episode eight, five, three, and you were talking about TSS ammo and we're not totally sure on when they were introduced. And again, a clarification, an omission, a, a, that's corrections. Sure. He says, 2018 federal premium became the first large manufacturer to produce TSS. Great. 2018. Thank you.
29:50 Steven Rinella? TSS two. Slight correction to the claim, I believe it was Brody's claim. That tungsten is very heat resistant. Well. He goes out, the corrector says tungsten is actually the most heat resistant pure metal.
30:11 Speaker 03 Which is also very.
30:14 Steven Rinella? No, no, no.
30:17 Speaker 03 Very, very.
30:17 Steven Rinella? It is a huge difference. If I, let's say I'm friends, let's say I'm friends with the tallest man on earth.
30:27 Steven Rinella? And he comes in and I go, this is my buddy. He's very tall.
30:31 Steven Rinella? Right? And someone's like, well, he's the tallest man on earth.
30:36 Speaker 03 I, I think they're the same thing.
30:37 Steven Rinella? It's just, no, it's different. I would say, here's my buddy. He's the tallest man on earth.
30:43 Speaker 03 Okay.
30:44 Steven Rinella? It's just different.
30:46 Speaker 07 There are a lot more men than there are kinds of metal.
30:49 Steven Rinella? Okay. The melting point is six.
30:55 Steven Rinella? The melting, get this, get just pick, close your eyes and picture this. The melting point is six thousand one hundred ninety-two Fahrenheit, seven hundred degrees higher. Than tantalum.
31:08 Speaker 03 What's the temperature of the sun?
31:10 Steven Rinella? A lot. It's, I'd go so far as to say it's the hottest thing.
31:16 Steven Rinella? Uh, ten thousand degrees. Tantum.
31:18 Speaker 03 It wouldn't survive the sun.
31:22 Steven Rinella? That's why it's used as an electrode when TIG welding, which was introduced in the nineteen forties. He goes on to say very heat resistant, huh?
31:33 Speaker 03 It actually says very heat resistant is not an incorrect claim.
31:38 Steven Rinella? Oh, that's what it says?
31:40 Speaker 04 But it doesn't do the metal justice.
31:43 Steven Rinella? Okay, so Brody underselling tungsten.
31:46 Speaker 03 Oh, yeah.
31:47 Steven Rinella? TSS number three.
31:48 Speaker 03 Next I oversell it.
31:54 Steven Rinella? Bro, TSS number three.
31:57 Steven Rinella? He, he starts out, I appreciate this. He starts out, says, I don't have the cred, the credentials to offer this correction. He says, in fact, I'm horrible at science related subjects, but that just goes to show that any person can do good.
32:09 Speaker 03 Regular Joe.
32:09 Steven Rinella? Yeah, but Brody can't do good.
32:11 Speaker 03 No.
32:13 Steven Rinella? Yeah. This guy says, I have a forty year old. Why does that matter?
32:19 Speaker 04 Like a cousin who's maybe not a kid.
32:20 Speaker 03 Maybe he's very young and he's trying to establish bona fides because his cousin is older. Well, he's gonna tell you about a Christmas thing.
32:28 Steven Rinella? Yeah. His cousin's forty. I don't care. You know what? It could be that he's like, we've been cousins so long.
32:36 Speaker 03 Hmm.
32:37 Steven Rinella? You know?
32:38 Speaker 03 I don't think that's it.
32:39 Steven Rinella? Um.
32:41 Steven Rinella? Okay, he's got a forty year old cousin that asked for.
32:46 Steven Rinella? This cousin asked for Christmas. Oh, I get it now. What kind of forty year old guy? Yeah, something a six year old would ask. Okay, that's why it's goofy. His goofy forty year old cousin requested a one by one inch piece of tungsten.
33:00 Speaker 03 Hmm.
33:02 Steven Rinella? This guy says, it is heavy.
33:06 Steven Rinella? He says, it's so heavy. They talk about that it like it has its own gravitational pull. Which it does, but he's not a science guy.
33:19 Steven Rinella? Yes, you're right. That is gravity pulling on your cube.
33:25 Steven Rinella? He goes down with this correction. When Brody last week said that T S S is twice as dense as lead.
33:34 Steven Rinella? I kept thinking, there's no way.
33:37 Speaker 03 I would like to go back because I think I said about twice as dense, but maybe not.
33:42 Steven Rinella? No, he said twice. Cause he says, there's no way. Cause I've held a two point two pound cube of tungsten. And in fact, Brody was wrong. Tungsten isn't twice as heavy. It's one point tie, one point seven times as dense.
34:01 Speaker 03 In math, that's a long ways, I guess.
34:04 Steven Rinella? He says, I know this is split in hairs, but if it was two X, then it would be the debt. Here's where the rubber hits the road.
34:11 Speaker 03 This is where it gets mean.
34:13 Steven Rinella? No. If it was two X as Brody claimed. It would be the densest naturally occurring material on earth.
34:23 Speaker 03 Why can't we have some of this stuff?
34:24 Steven Rinella? But it's not. It's, that is held by osmium. Which is 1.99 times as dense as lead. So not only was Brody wrong. When he said two times, but the thing that's more dense than it still isn't two times.
34:45 Speaker 03 That's right.
34:46 Steven Rinella? He was very wrong.
34:47 Speaker 03 But you know what I want?
34:47 Steven Rinella? Very wrong, but this person pitches the idea of osmium super shot.
34:52 Speaker 03 Exactly.
34:53 Speaker 07 OSS.
34:55 Steven Rinella? OSS. I don't know what osmium is going for these days, but I've never heard of it, which makes me think it's not.
35:02 Speaker 03 Extend that range out to a hundred.
35:04 Speaker 07 I've got a correction for his correction though.
35:07 Steven Rinella? Well, here, can you hold it? Cause there's a problem. These guys aren't even in corrections. Who do we vote for to advance to the finals? We have Brody being wrong about, Brody being wrong about not knowing when it came out. We have Brody being wrong about how hot you gotta get it to melt.
35:29 Speaker 03 I like the, yeah, the last one.
35:31 Steven Rinella? And we have Brody being wrong about how dense it is. OSS, baby.
35:35 Speaker 03 I like the last one because.
35:37 Steven Rinella? OSS. Clear winner. Okay, so he's into the finals.
35:41 Speaker 07 I, I like his, I like his flavor text at the end about osmium too.
35:44 Steven Rinella? No, he did a really good job. Yeah. And he's the guy that's not a science guy.
35:49 Steven Rinella? Okay, so he's in the finals. So that is correction number one, osmium.
35:53 Speaker 03 He's gonna have to give one of his boots to his cousin though.
35:59 Steven Rinella? Who knows? Maybe they, I don't know.
36:05 Steven Rinella? Maybe they only have one, I don't know. Who knows? We're kind of, I don't know what kind of accident.
36:09 Speaker 03 Same size foot, they can just share.
36:11 Steven Rinella? I was watching a movie the other night and it was, and it was mostly cast with just non-actors. Okay, it's a phenomenal movie. Um, and there's a, one of the main characters is missing an arm and one of the main characters is missing a leg. And I was thinking to myself, that's such an interesting call. And then I read that they didn't use professional actors. They just cast it from people. That they saw and they introduced themselves to and cast the movie that way. You don't want to tell us what it's called? Serat.
36:41 Speaker 04 That French movie?
36:42 Steven Rinella? It's, it's a lot of French, a lot of Spanish. It's a dude trying to find his daughter who is vanished into the, into the Moroccan desert rave scene. And it has mega Mad Max overtones and gets very stressful. Hmm. Netflix or? No.
37:01 Steven Rinella? I, I bought it on, I've been, every day I, I checked to see if it was available. It became available. I bought it for a lot of money on Apple, on, you know, the iTunes store, whatever they call that nowadays, the Apple store. Go on. Apple TV. Brody's gonna offer a correction.
37:15 Speaker 03 Uh, okay, here we go.
37:16 Steven Rinella? Yeah, that's right. Apple TV.
37:18 Speaker 03 Hopefully you guys were listening a couple of weeks back when we talked about the Colorado fur ban. We've got a correction from Jeff. I don't have his last name, but we'll, we'll figure it out if we need to. Okay. I just listened to the news podcast where you talked about the Colorado fur ban petition voted on by the CPW commission. During that bit, Steve remarked that nuisance beavers and other fur bears taken for nuisance reasons will now be left to rot with no fur taken. That's actually not true. That's the insane part of this story that's not being told. And honestly, I'm not sure if it should be told. I'll let you be the judge.
37:52 Steven Rinella? I like this because he's saying, I messed up. But it's because it's so insane that it's excusable that I messed up.
38:00 Speaker 03 Well, I don't know if he's using you.
38:02 Steven Rinella? Yeah, it lets me off the hook.
38:03 Speaker 03 Okay. When the call, when the commission adopts the regulation banning the sale of wild animal furs in Colorado, it will only apply to fur bears taken recreationally. Statutes are already in place that state fur bears taken for damage or agricultural purposes can be retained or sold by those taken.
38:23 Steven Rinella? Those that have taken-
38:24 Speaker 03 Those that have taken that. Statutes trump regulations. This is in both Title 33 and Title 35 of the Colorado Revive statutes. Yada, yada. It is an enforce- unenforceable law and the commission was told as much by CPW law enforcement. As soon as a bobcat is sealed, there's no way to know if it was harvested recreationally or through damage purposes. This is the part that makes me uncomfortable with those for the ban. I don't want them to know this loophole.
38:54 Steven Rinella? Uh oh.
38:55 Speaker 03 There's any- there isn't any way to find out if any fur bear was taken for damage purposes. You can still harvest fur bears recreationally and nothing says you can't sell them in another state either. This whole thing is ridiculous and the commission shamed CPW in this ridiculous process.
39:12 Steven Rinella? Oh, he goes a little thanks to Brody. Read that part, Brody.
39:15 Speaker 03 Thanks, Brody. I can tell you that CPW is as frustrated with this as you are, which is- is good.
39:21 Steven Rinella? Job, Brody. That's correction number two. So to recap, we got osmium super shot. Brody screwed up on the fur ban.
39:31 Speaker 03 No, you did.
39:31 Steven Rinella? No.
39:33 Speaker 04 But it's okay.
39:34 Steven Rinella? Here's the last one. This is- this is a good one. This is an important one. On the most recent news podcast, Bear Newcomb mentioned that Oklahoma was working toward approving the release of captive deer that are, and Bear used this word, that are immune to CWD into the wild.
39:58 Steven Rinella? I- I wish I would have caught that. I didn't catch that. Very rightfully, the guy says the correct term would be resistant. Okay? Even though that is still in question. And he talks about how we ourselves covered that in episode 766 in the podcast titled The Truth About Chronic Wasting Disease. Okay? So according to the National Deer Association, deer that carry the 96SS genotype-
40:26 Steven Rinella? Could experience a longer incubation period prior to perishing to the disease. But this does not prevent them from getting it. So resistant or delayed, but not known to be immune. Okay, so there's the three things.
40:44 Speaker 03 Yeah.
40:44 Steven Rinella? The, the.
40:45 Speaker 03 Gotcha.
40:46 Steven Rinella? Brody being wrong on tungsten. Me being understandably mistaken on the Colorado fur ban. Or Bear Newcomb not choosing his words carefully on chronic wasting disease. Yeah, this is a tough one, man. Give Bear a break. Okay, votes for the new pair of COVID's boots. Let's go around the table, Max. Uh, no, no, you don't vote like that. Oh, come on. I want to build up tension. Tungsten? Tungsten. Yeah, I gotta vote for. Oh, it's decided that quickly. Wow. Oh, hold it. Phil, what'd you vote for?
41:24 Speaker 08 I was gonna vote for number two.
41:25 Steven Rinella? Same. Oh, so you didn't vote tungsten? Oh, it's not decided. I'm sorry. Tungsten? Four. Oh, it's decided. You guys caved.
41:31 Speaker 04 Four V three.
41:32 Steven Rinella? Okay, just, I'm just out of curiosity. What were you gonna vote for?
41:34 Speaker 08 Number two.
41:35 Steven Rinella? I do CWD. Oh, well, you guys lost. Yeah, that's fine. So, the tungsten guy, not only did he win the playoffs. He won twice. Yeah. Wow.
41:47 Speaker 04 Chris Lund.
41:49 Speaker 08 But he did have a mistake.
41:50 Speaker 04 We will reach out to you.
41:51 Speaker 08 His cube dimension should be one inch by one inch by one inch.
41:55 Speaker 04 Oh, yeah.
41:57 Steven Rinella? Oh. Take that, Chris.
41:59 Speaker 08 If it's a cube, then it's implied by only two dimensions, correct?
42:02 Speaker 07 Just say a one inch cube, not a one inch by one inch.
42:04 Speaker 08 So, Chris, you know, just check it out.
42:06 Steven Rinella? Yeah, yeah. Let's send him some, uh, send him one, and then he has to decide. Yeah, we might have to like scuff him, like scuff him up a little bit or something before he gets those boots. Got to scuff him up. That's a great point. Yeah, one inch cube. That covers it.
42:25 Steven Rinella? In his face.
42:27 Speaker 03 He did say he doesn't have, he lacks credentials. So come on.
42:30 Speaker 07 Well, is redundancy, you know, is that something we need to correct, you know?
42:34 Steven Rinella? Yeah.
42:35 Speaker 07 Okay.
42:36 Steven Rinella? If someone wrote in and he says, hey, I got a correction about redundancy, I'd let it slip in there. He might win some boots. I don't know.
42:41 Speaker 07 Great.
42:42 Steven Rinella? All right, Brody, uh, audience emails, Brody, a kid wrote in about some lambs.
42:45 Speaker 03 Yeah, this is great because it's not an email. It's actually handwritten letters. I love this kid already. Um, we just got this today, breaking news. Um, okay, here we go. Hello, my name is Easton Sutter. I'm 12 years old. And I am a sixth grader at Fort Recovery Junior High in Fort Recovery, Ohio. This kid writes a great letter. Fort Recovery is a small rural farm town in the middle of nowhere that nobody has ever heard of.
43:11 Steven Rinella? I like it because he really sets the scene, you know?
43:13 Speaker 03 Yeah. I love hunting, fishing, and pretty much anything in nature. This past year I went turkey, rabbit, and deer hunting with my dad. This past deer season, I shot my first buck. My favorite part of hunting is spending one-on-one time with my dad. When you're riding the car, the first thing we typically do is turn on the Meat Eater podcast or trivia. But sadly, we have not gotten to try Meat Eater Turtle. There you go, Spencer. You haven't tried your, your wordle turtle.
43:40 Steven Rinella? He's a word.
43:40 Speaker 03 Um, my dad is really good at trivia and would make a great addition to the Meat Eater crew. Love that. Um, I'm an active member. This is where it gets real good. I'm an active member of 4H and this year my project, for my project, I have to show, I have two show lambs. Their names are Steve and Brody. There was a third named Yanni, but it had a bummed leg and was sent to the chop house.
44:11 Steven Rinella? Sounds about right.
44:12 Speaker 03 I wanted to know if you would like to bid on my lambs. So if you guys want to figure that out, the audience, you could bid on his lambs. The money I will make will go into, uh, future college expenses. And if you are interested, I have enclosed the information to do so. Thank you for your time and I look forward to hearing back from you. Here's to lots more car rides with Meat Eater on the radio.
44:34 Steven Rinella? So does he ship those lambs, the lamb meat to us?
44:38 Speaker 03 I'm not sure. We'll have to get in touch with him. He, he's, he used snail mail, so we're gonna have to figure it out.
44:44 Steven Rinella? Huh. Hope someone buys the land.
44:45 Speaker 03 Easton Sutter, if you're listening to us, send us an email so we can, uh, we can figure some stuff out for you.
44:52 Steven Rinella? Someone I know offered to my, they have a bunch of pasture and they offered to my daughter that she could raise a cow on there. So she's telling everybody she's gonna start raising cattle for money.
45:04 Steven Rinella? I'm like, let's look into this a little bit.
45:08 Steven Rinella? There's a couple of complicating factors here we need to consider.
45:10 Speaker 03 She should raise one named Yanni for the chop house.
45:14 Steven Rinella? Uh, okay. Just thought of, here, here's another one. Oh, this is just an update. Remember, if you guys listen to the show, you remember we were really pushing that mountain goat raffle in Alaska? Um, man, that came in. That, that was a great fundraiser for the organization. They raised, you guys really, you guys did two things. Everyone that, that came into support and we, we drove a bunch of support there, you did two things. You helped them raise a bunch of money and you also shot your odds to all to hell.
45:40 Steven Rinella? On, on the, on the Alaska mountain goat raffle, they raised a hundred and ten thousand, seven hundred and ninety-five thousand dollars. Says the far and away, the most money raised with an Alaska goat tag.
45:51 Speaker 03 Damn.
45:53 Steven Rinella? They're real happy with all that. Now I noticed that I have not gotten my tag in the mail.
45:58 Speaker 03 Hmm.
45:59 Steven Rinella? And it might be because I don't know, I'm no statistician, but these odds are rough. On top of this, the Delta Junction bison tag, get this, two hundred and thirteen grand, four hundred and forty thousand dollars.
46:10 Speaker 03 Unreal.
46:12 Steven Rinella? That's, that's what I like to see is I like to see those raffles.
46:15 Speaker 03 Yeah, cuz that's getting up into governor's tag money there.
46:18 Steven Rinella? Yep, because you got this whole, we've talked about it a hundred times on the podcast. You got the governor's tags, they auction it to the highest bidder and it brings a lot of money for stuff, but it's just like, like, oh, oh, oh, Joe Blow working dude is not in the running on a governor's tag.
46:34 Speaker 03 Not.
46:34 Steven Rinella? And it puts the conservation groups in a pickle. You could do a raffle and have anybody have a chance to win, but you're not gonna raise much money. You do a governor's tag and, and, and you have like a handful of billionaires have a chance to win. Um, and it's a bunch of money. So to see these really successful, like really successful raffles is cool because like anybody can participate. Everybody's got a chance to win and then you still get a nice price tag toward conservation work.
47:02 Speaker 06 What was the price for putting in for the raffle?
47:05 Steven Rinella? Can't remember. I bought, I bought.
47:07 Speaker 03 Twenty-five bucks.
47:08 Steven Rinella? I bought an undisclosed dollar amount worth of entries.
47:11 Speaker 06 Okay.
47:14 Steven Rinella? Not that I I didn't I didn't.
47:15 Speaker 05 You didn't go crazy.
47:16 Steven Rinella? I'll disclose about a hundred bucks worth of entries. Yeah. About a hundred bucks. Um, oh, Brody.
47:24 Speaker 03 Oh, yeah, it's Turkey Week. Um, I covered this a little bit in the first part of this in Radio Live, I think, a while back. Um, but I'll I'll I'll start over and cover both parts.
47:38 Steven Rinella? Oh, no, no, we didn't eat the, damn it. Where's the part where we eat the jerky?
47:46 Steven Rinella? Yeah.
47:47 Speaker 04 I missed that.
47:48 Steven Rinella? Okay.
47:49 Speaker 03 You want to start over?
47:50 Speaker 04 Oh, wait, audience.
47:51 Steven Rinella? No, I don't have to do it. So remember we were talking on the news show about making jerky out of nuts? Deer nuts?
47:58 Speaker 04 Mm hmm.
47:59 Steven Rinella? Okay. He sent us the nuts and I was saying, don't poison us.
48:05 Steven Rinella? He said, um,
48:09 Steven Rinella? the guy wrote in, one grown man to another, sending you a dried deer nut is one of the weirdest things I have done.
48:16 Steven Rinella? Now, my wife told me to send you some of that dried heart. Unfortunately for you, I have eaten the heart. It was excellent. You are one of the few hunters that, uh, uh, he said some nice stuff. Um, he fought fire up here and he goes on the jerky. I dry smoke and preserve meat as folks has for generations before me. In my neck of the woods, the Caddo and Comanche tribes dried strips of meat that sustained them throughout the year. So here's the nut. So he's got one nut says, normal, non-nut jerky, contains no nuts. You guys try that.
48:50 Speaker 05 Hmm, okay.
48:51 Steven Rinella? This is just meat. And then here's the dried testicle. This is deer nut jerky.
48:58 Steven Rinella? He wrote a note to saying that it's, he didn't poison us, not because of it was like technically hard. He says he's not that kind of guy.
49:06 Speaker 05 Ah, it'd be easy to pull off, though, if he wanted.
49:09 Steven Rinella? So you're saying like if he wanted to poison us, he would have, but he's just that, not that kind of guy. So here's the nut. This is the, this is a dried nut.
49:16 Speaker 04 I'm surprised it has that texture because when it's.
49:22 Speaker 03 Carve me off a hunk of that, or does it break?
49:27 Speaker 04 Does it just taste like smoked teriyaki flavor?
49:33 Speaker 05 It looks the same as the rest of the jerky.
49:35 Speaker 04 Which like.
49:36 Steven Rinella? Ain't like jerky.
49:37 Speaker 04 But nuts are, nuts are.
49:38 Steven Rinella? Who else wants a chunk?
49:40 Speaker 04 Much whiter than.
49:42 Steven Rinella? You can give the sponsor a name. It's off putting finish.
49:46 Steven Rinella? It's you sponsor.
49:48 Speaker 05 Off putting finish.
49:49 Speaker 04 This jerky is tough as shit. Ow.
49:53 Steven Rinella? I'm surprised at a nut.
49:55 Speaker 04 Dog treat.
49:56 Steven Rinella? I'm surprised the testicle dries up like that, to be honest with you.
49:58 Speaker 04 Right?
50:00 Steven Rinella? You didn't slice it at all? Very pasty, very pasty finish.
50:04 Speaker 05 Mm-hmm.
50:05 Steven Rinella? Hmm. You don't think he sliced it up at all? Oh, it's sliced. Okay.
50:08 Speaker 03 And that, that, uh.
50:09 Speaker 04 Oh, it smells like.
50:11 Speaker 03 Whatever you wanna call that on the outside.
50:13 Steven Rinella? It's not very good.
50:14 Speaker 04 Max wanna split it up with me?
50:16 Speaker 03 Well, I don't think it's like as bad as you guys are saying it is.
50:20 Speaker 04 No, you gotta try this.
50:21 Steven Rinella? No. Okay.
50:22 Speaker 04 Just cut that in half and give me.
50:23 Speaker 05 I, I wouldn't need to eat that ever again.
50:25 Steven Rinella? Here, here's how I like to think of bad foods.
50:28 Speaker 03 I, I'm not offended.
50:29 Steven Rinella? But here's a measure of bad foods. Um.
50:34 Speaker 04 Thank you.
50:34 Steven Rinella? My wife recently bought these salted dried, uh, I don't know why she bought them, salted dried prunes. And I was like, my god, that's bad, when I ate one, but then I put, left it in my truck.
50:46 Speaker 04 Sorry.
50:47 Steven Rinella? And a few times I drove around and I'd eat one. And I'd think to myself, my god, that's bad.
50:53 Speaker 03 But you kept eating them.
50:54 Steven Rinella? And I eventually threw it away.
50:55 Speaker 04 Hmm.
50:56 Steven Rinella? If he sent me a sack of those nuts.
50:58 Speaker 04 Oh.
50:58 Steven Rinella? I would probably another time eat one and be like, my god, that's bad. Oh, Corinne spitting it out.
51:06 Speaker 04 And like, I eat a lot of stuff.
51:08 Speaker 03 Really, Corinne?
51:08 Speaker 04 Yeah, I don't like.
51:09 Steven Rinella? Well, yeah, you're big talk. You didn't even clean your plate.
51:13 Speaker 04 That's disgusting.
51:14 Speaker 03 It's a little chewy.
51:16 Steven Rinella? Brody's all like, oh, I quite like it.
51:18 Speaker 03 I know, I did not say I like it. I just don't think it's like the worst thing I've ever had.
51:22 Steven Rinella? Then eat it.
51:23 Speaker 03 I, I.
51:24 Steven Rinella? I like it.
51:25 Speaker 05 I know how good like a deer testicle can taste, and it's like a, a, like a very pleasant thing to eat, and this was not that.
51:32 Speaker 03 What makes it tough is this like outer mem- this like.
51:35 Speaker 05 Hmm.
51:36 Speaker 03 Skin membrane it's got.
51:37 Speaker 04 Guys, don't do that at home. Not worth it.
51:39 Steven Rinella? Boy.
51:40 Speaker 05 But that's a satisfying result. Now I know that like, I don't, I don't need to do that. Deer nut jerky. Yeah.
51:46 Speaker 04 Oh, yeah.
51:46 Speaker 05 You guys are a bunch of babies.
51:47 Speaker 04 I'd rather smell that castor's and castor oil than eat that.
51:51 Speaker 05 Yeah.
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52:22 Steven Rinella? If you spend a lot of time outdoors, or you got dogs, or you got kids, you know how hard it is to keep the floor of your rig clean. A thing we do in our, in our little fleet of vehicles that have at my household, if you go look, open the door on any one of them, they all got WeatherTech. We get a car, we throw the mats out and put in WeatherTech. That way, when there's a mess, it's like your kid's fault, your dog's fault, it's the weather's fault, doesn't matter. You take them suckers out and hose them off, and you're back to being good as new. I'm telling you, if you got a vehicle, put WeatherTech in there, you're gonna be happy you did it. And check this out, American-made floor liners and cargo liners, okay? They laugh in the face of all weather. Go take a look for yourself today at weathertech.com. Listen, we're all trying to save up for something. I got buddies saving up to buy their new house.
53:07 Steven Rinella? I got people eyeing a new boat. I know buddies that are trying to switch out trucks and get an upgrade in their truck, whatever. People are always saving up for stuff. In reality, though, we see that it can be hard to actually save money. But that's what's great about the OnePay app. It makes saving money easy. First, you earn 3% cash back on up to $150 in monthly spending. You choose categories, okay? Like Walmart, gas, or dining, and then get rewarded when you spend in those categories. So you're rewarded for what you're already buying. And with high-yield savings, your money keeps growing. Download the OnePay app or visit onepay.com for banking that gives you more for what matters.
53:51 Speaker 09 OnePay is a financial technology company, not a bank. Banking services provided by Coastal Community Bank, or Lead Bank, members FDIC. Cash back is earned as points. Go to onepay.com/rewards/terms for redemption options and additional details.
54:06 Steven Rinella? Remember on the we are the world video, they use those little things to protect their microphones?
54:12 Steven Rinella? No, I don't remember that.
54:15 Steven Rinella? Oh, Phil. Don't, don't pull that up, but can you pull the guy up all riled up about going turkey hunting?
54:22 Speaker 07 Uh, if you, I, I need a link. I don't even know what to search for.
54:25 Steven Rinella? I'll, I'll send it to you. Okay. All right, bro, to do your thing. Now, folks li- listening at home here.
54:31 Speaker 03 This is.
54:31 Steven Rinella? You're gonna, don't, don't think that this is just, don't think that this is just local news for us.
54:37 Speaker 03 Right.
54:37 Steven Rinella? Because this is like a, a management strategy you should be aware of. That's what I was thinking.
54:42 Speaker 03 A trend that's happening more and more.
54:44 Steven Rinella? Yeah, this is a trend that's happening.
54:45 Speaker 03 Regarding non-resident hunters. Uh, last year, Montana Senate Bill 514 was passed. And, uh,
54:56 Speaker 03 we, I like somehow went like under the radar for a while, at least for me.
55:01 Steven Rinella? I never heard hide nor hair about it.
55:04 Speaker 03 But then I, I caught on to it because I hunt pheasants.
55:07 Steven Rinella? Can I interrupt one second?
55:08 Speaker 03 Yeah.
55:08 Steven Rinella? You want to know what's wrong with that jerky? You know, when you're eating jerky, normally you chew it a while and you wind up with kind of like a cud.
55:15 Speaker 03 Mm hmm.
55:17 Steven Rinella? You're chewing, chewing, chewing that nut jerky. And all of a sudden it's a paste.
55:23 Speaker 03 Yeah. Go on.
55:27 Speaker 04 Is that still in your mouth?
55:28 Speaker 03 Um, okay. So Senate Bill 514. It grants resident upland bird hunters a 10 day head start over non-residents. Now, the reason I, I, again, I caught this was about, it's a regarding pheasant season, but other, other upland birds, sharp-tailed grouse, Hungarian partridge, stuff like that. I think that season for pheasants anyway starts early October. Now, non-resident hunters have to wait 10 days before they can hunt them on public land or on like.
56:02 Speaker 03 Private land that has public access programs like block management in Montana.
56:07 Steven Rinella? But they're not jumping the season earlier. It's just your non-residents lose 10 days.
56:11 Speaker 03 Exactly. And if those non-resident hunters have access to private, private, they can go hunt. Um, what I didn't realize is that because Montana categorizes turkeys as upland game birds, this rule also applies to spring turkey season.
56:29 Steven Rinella? Hmm.
56:30 Speaker 03 So, spring turkey opens April 15th in Montana. Non-residents can't start hunting them on public or, or private with public access till April 25th.
56:41 Steven Rinella? Hmm.
56:42 Speaker 03 Um.
56:43 Steven Rinella? Yep. And then weirdly, and this kind of pisses me off.
56:48 Steven Rinella? They exempted mountain grouse.
56:50 Speaker 03 They did.
56:51 Steven Rinella? I don't get it.
56:52 Speaker 03 The only thing I can think of is there's a bunch of non-resident archery hunters, elk hunters out there that are sticking grouse for.
56:59 Steven Rinella? That's not why they do that.
57:01 Speaker 03 I don't know.
57:01 Steven Rinella? I had the same thought as Brody.
57:03 Speaker 03 There's just no, there's a very little pressure on those mountain birds.
57:06 Steven Rinella? I don't like it. I think they should have. All or none? Yeah, I don't like, yeah.
57:11 Speaker 03 Either way. So, so this is like, you know, it's a pretty big change and it, I think it follows a trend of mostly western states, um, doing what they can to limit the impact of non-resident hunting pressure and doing something where they can like,
57:31 Speaker 03 present a regulation saying, we're trying to alleviate this pressure that you guys are talking about. Uh, you, you've seen it. Colorado went away from, uh, over the counter archery elk tags. Uh, Montana cut a number of non-resident mule deer tags. Wyoming has lowered their cap on all non-resident tags. So it's just like this trend that is hap- I, I think it's going to continue too.
57:59 Steven Rinella? Yeah, it's, you have more like, you have a growing number of residents.
58:03 Speaker 03 Yep.
58:03 Steven Rinella? As more people leave cities, leave high tax areas. So you're growing numbers of residents in Wyoming, Montana, Idaho. And then, um, and then.
58:16 Steven Rinella? Like the, the, the pie needs to be cut up differently.
58:18 Speaker 03 Yeah, and I'd honestly like, as far as pheasant season, like it's nice to be out there the first few days when you're shooting young of the year dumb birds, right? Um, but it's a three month season. You're not losing that much as a non-resident. Turkeys in Montana, there's some years weather wise where you can't hunt the first, or don't want to hunt the first week of the season anyway.
58:39 Speaker 06 And like, all the birds are henned up anyway. So it's like, so not a big deal.
58:42 Steven Rinella? Hold on, what?
58:44 Speaker 06 I, I personally think that the first like fifteen days of the season, there's a lot of birds, a lot of toms that are henned up.
58:52 Speaker 03 I was referring more to like, snowstorms and shit like that, but.
58:55 Steven Rinella? Yeah, but.
58:58 Speaker 03 Either way, there you go.
59:01 Steven Rinella? I have thoughts. Uh, this is one of those deals where I, you got, I, I try to, like, so, uh, it's my state, right? Where I live.
59:11 Speaker 03 So you like it?
59:11 Steven Rinella? So, um, so, so to myself, I'm going like, sweet dude.
59:14 Speaker 03 Yeah.
59:15 Steven Rinella? Stick it to them, right? But, so just acknowledging that truth.
59:19 Speaker 03 Yep.
59:19 Steven Rinella? I, I, I feel obligated, um, to point out a couple of details or point out a couple of minor counterpoints.
59:26 Speaker 03 Yes.
59:26 Steven Rinella? Just to, just to open that all up, to be fair. Where you get into trouble, even though I like this, I like this, because this is, you know, helps, helps me out. Where you get into trouble is non-resident licenses keeps the lights on at the fishing game agency.
59:43 Speaker 03 That's why I think you're seeing it with pheasants and turkeys and not elk. Like, they're not going to push rifle elk season back ten days for, that you'll never see that.
59:53 Steven Rinella? They might, but that's what, that's what keeps the lights on.
59:56 Speaker 03 Yeah.
59:56 Steven Rinella? And it could be that the, that the agency is sitting there saying, what people really want, and it would be enorm, like if you, let's say you did a state, let's say you did a vote and a state referendum. Any state. I don't care. You did Montana, Colorado, any state. Wisconsin. You did a state vote and said, hey, should non residents have to wait 10 days to start deer hunting with a rifle? It would pass everywhere. The agency is gonna be like, but hold on a minute, because all of our funding comes from non resident. You guys are all hunting deer for 30 bucks. These guys are paying 300 bucks to hunt a deer.
1:00:30 Speaker 03 And there's also the outfitters to consider. You'd shrink their season, you know?
1:00:34 Steven Rinella? That's who would be pissed.
1:00:35 Speaker 03 Yeah.
1:00:35 Steven Rinella? Yeah, you're right. So it's like, it's like you can kind of scratch the itch.
1:00:39 Speaker 03 Yep.
1:00:40 Steven Rinella? A little bit, and maybe it's like you're scratching the itch a little bit where you're not gonna hurt the agency's funding model.
1:00:46 Speaker 03 Yeah.
1:00:47 Steven Rinella? The other thing is, I look at it like from this perspective, because I jump, I hunt all over the place. Um, you know, I jump from state to state and hunt. So here I'm going like, let's say, like, I go to, uh, we, we hunt the kitty season, we hunt the youth season in Wisconsin every year. If someone said all of a sudden, they says, it's a two day youth season. And someone comes and says, hey, the first day of Wisconsin's youth season is resident only. I would say, oh, man.
1:01:17 Speaker 03 Yeah.
1:01:19 Steven Rinella? What? And I'd be all bummed out.
1:01:21 Speaker 03 But you'd still go.
1:01:22 Steven Rinella? I wouldn't have this, what could I do about it? It's not even my state. I would feel like it was someone else deciding something and I was not part of the decision making process. I'd be bummed. So I get it, the people are bummed, but at the same time, when, just to be like totally upfront and honest, when I saw this, I'm like, that's cool.
1:01:39 Speaker 03 Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I'm not crying.
1:01:42 Steven Rinella? Because there's a self-serving element to everything.
1:01:44 Speaker 03 Like, I, look, I think they would do as much of this as they could if they thought they could get away with, but there's a ceiling to it. Like you said, they can only go so far with it.
1:01:53 Steven Rinella? Yeah. The real losers in anything like this, the real losers are, and if you take this state, the real losers, it's Washington and Minnesota. Because those dudes hunt this state hard. Hard.
1:02:13 Speaker 03 Yep.
1:02:15 Steven Rinella? Okay. I've got that video if you want to watch it, Steve. Oh, yeah, this is great. I like this guy.
1:02:21 Steven Rinella? Check this out. This is just right now, he said this?
1:02:24 Speaker 06 Uh, I think yesterday.
1:02:25 Steven Rinella? Listen to this guy.
1:02:28 Speaker 10 I'll kill a turkey in the morning.
1:02:30 Steven Rinella? Could someone say who, oh, could someone that knows about sports say who he is?
1:02:34 Speaker 08 Isn't that the?
1:02:35 Speaker 06 I thought it was Longhorn coach? Women's, yeah, Texas Longhorns coach.
1:02:39 Steven Rinella? Oh, okay. Texas Longhorns coach.
1:02:42 Speaker 06 They just advanced to the final four.
1:02:43 Steven Rinella? He's got a fishing net around his neck.
1:02:45 Speaker 06 No, that's basketball.
1:02:46 Steven Rinella? That was a joke. That was a sports joke.
1:02:48 Speaker 06 I was making sure. He'll net. I was making sure he knew what it was.
1:02:53 Steven Rinella? He's got a basketball hoop around his neck. They just won.
1:02:55 Speaker 10 I'll kill a turkey in the morning. I'll be in the office by 10 o'clock and I'll be in the film, watching film, getting ready. And then the second thing is I'm gonna leave for Phoenix tomorrow.
1:03:08 Speaker 10 Just being honest. That's gonna happen. I've earned that right to be in the woods for a couple hours in the morning calling a turkey.
1:03:16 Speaker 10 And then we'll get ready for whoever's, you know, whatever's gonna happen after that. But I'll watch film tonight, absolutely. All the way home. I'll watch it till I can't stay awake tonight, just like I've done here for four or five straight nights. But I'm gonna treat myself in the morning to, it might not even take longer than 30 minutes if I can call that dude off the roost.
1:03:39 Speaker 10 I'll be in the office and I'll be getting ready for, for UCLA.
1:03:44 Steven Rinella? Amen. Hope he has a good hunt. He got one.
1:03:47 Speaker 06 I found out, yeah. I had to like Google it, but on Twitter he posted a photo of he got one the next morning.
1:03:54 Speaker 08 He was so into thinking about turkeys, he couldn't remember who they were playing the next day at the beginning of that interview.
1:04:01 Steven Rinella? Uh, okay. I was talking to Nate Mason the other day. He's joining us right now. Uh, he was out patterning his shotgun.
1:04:11 Steven Rinella? Innocently unaware of the turkey, of the TSS explosion, price explosion.
1:04:18 Speaker 08 Vaguely.
1:04:18 Steven Rinella? Yeah. Munich, like, you know, you don't need to be a great student of the news to know that, uh, there's a lot of, uh, ordinance getting blown up right now around the world. People dropping bombs all over the place. The military uses a lot of tungsten in ordinance, in, in munitions. They are, there's a tungsten shortage. This kind of ties into us duking it out with China about certain, uh, rare minerals, metals.
1:04:51 Steven Rinella? I had a guy came to me, I don't want to say my source because I could be wrong. A guy that's in the ammo business.
1:05:00 Steven Rinella? Texted me. That he heard from the major ammo manufacturer. That TSS as an ammo, TSS turkey loads, TSS is done.
1:05:14 Steven Rinella? He says it's all going to the government. And it's time to figure out. Your next bullet.
1:05:21 Speaker 08 What was it?
1:05:21 Steven Rinella? Your next shot. I don't know. Osmium super shot. TSS is over. I'm explaining this to Nate Mason and I'm, we're talking about that a TSS round is about six times. More expensive than what he uses. And he said, is it six times better?
1:05:39 Steven Rinella? And I said, no, maybe it's like 1.4 times better.
1:05:44 Steven Rinella? And it inspired him to go on and make his own website.
1:05:50 Speaker 08 Yep.
1:05:51 Steven Rinella? The TSS test.com.
1:05:54 Speaker 08 You can go there right now.
1:05:55 Steven Rinella? He's parked on that domain for one year for a dollar.
1:05:58 Speaker 08 It cost me a buck. It cost me 1 18th of a TSS shell.
1:06:02 Steven Rinella? Did you expense that dollar?
1:06:04 Speaker 08 No.
1:06:04 Steven Rinella? You ate it.
1:06:05 Speaker 08 I'm planning on monetizing this and making a bunch of money off it. Enough to buy TSS maybe. Here's the deal. A couple of disclaimers. Well, this is the common man's guide to TSS. I think we're making a lot of hay out of TSS. When most people don't even. They're not, it's not even.
1:06:23 Steven Rinella? In my social circle, let me tell you something.
1:06:24 Speaker 08 I'm saying you're not the common man.
1:06:26 Steven Rinella? Everyone in my social circle. Shoots TSS.
1:06:30 Speaker 08 Right. How new are you to turkey hunting? So this is my second disclaimer. Let me, let me tell you. I have never hunted a turkey in my life.
1:06:41 Speaker 08 And I'm not a data scientist. But you are a common man. I'm very much a common man. This is ripe for corrections, so get sharpen your pencils, nitpickers. But I think it makes me uniquely qualified to take an objective view of TSS or the lack thereof.
1:07:00 Steven Rinella? So Phil has TSS for the common man pulled up?
1:07:03 Speaker 08 Yep, you can go to theTSSTest.com. And this was-
1:07:08 Speaker 01 A lot of Ts.
1:07:09 Speaker 08 A lot of Ts, yeah. I'm a big alliterative guy.
1:07:12 Steven Rinella? It's high T.
1:07:13 Speaker 08 High T.
1:07:15 Speaker 08 And it's answering the question, can I justify buying TSS for 15, 17, 20 bucks a shell? Everyone's got different situations, variables, hunts, ethics setups. And so I polled a number of seasoned turkey hunters from across the US and basically asked, what's the average range at which a turkey presents the shot to you? Because that's what really matters.
1:07:40 Steven Rinella? And I thought about this answer long and hard.
1:07:42 Speaker 08 Long and hard.
1:07:43 Steven Rinella? And Yanni, I put it to Yanni long and hard.
1:07:44 Speaker 08 See, but I also thought about that because I think you're hunting primo spots.
1:07:48 Speaker 01 Dude, it has nothing.
1:07:51 Speaker 08 So, no, I'm just saying.
1:07:52 Steven Rinella? I want people to understand, again, you're not a data guy, or you're a data guy. You're not a turkey guy.
1:07:56 Speaker 08 I'm neither.
1:07:57 Steven Rinella? This is a working draft of a website.
1:07:59 Speaker 08 B1.
1:08:01 Speaker 03 And you also probably can't argue with experienced turkey hunters over what they're seeing since you're not-
1:08:05 Speaker 08 Well, agreed.
1:08:06 Steven Rinella? And I turkey hunt a lot of places.
1:08:08 Speaker 08 Right.
1:08:09 Steven Rinella? I don't, I don't want to remind you that I'm a two-time super, what's the slam when you got-
1:08:17 Speaker 03 World slam, no.
1:08:18 Steven Rinella? Yeah.
1:08:19 Speaker 01 Grand slam.
1:08:19 Steven Rinella? Two-time, no, way more than grand.
1:08:22 Speaker 08 World.
1:08:24 Speaker 03 World includes the Mexican-
1:08:25 Steven Rinella? What's the one that doesn't include the oscillated?
1:08:27 Speaker 08 Super.
1:08:28 Steven Rinella? Two-time super slam holder.
1:08:30 Speaker 08 See, I don't even know what those are. That's how little I know.
1:08:32 Steven Rinella? So, what I'm saying is when I give you turkey data, turkey dough, it's from all over, buddy.
1:08:38 Speaker 08 Yup.
1:08:40 Speaker 08 But all those data points are from Steve's shoes.
1:08:43 Steven Rinella? Okay, go on.
1:08:44 Speaker 08 So, in light of that, I factored in a bunch of variables and you can go on here and put in your situation. Whether it's the caginess of your turkeys, the species you're hunting.
1:08:55 Steven Rinella? Click through a little bit, Phil.
1:08:56 Speaker 06 Oh, sure. Hold on, hold on. Before I get corrected, Grand Slam is Eastern, Rio, Merriam, Osceola, Royal Slam.
1:09:06 Steven Rinella? That shouldn't even be a thing.
1:09:07 Speaker 06 It's all four.
1:09:08 Steven Rinella? Sub- level.
1:09:09 Speaker 06 Yeah. The Royal Slam is the Grand Slam pl- plus the Goulds. And then the World Slam is the Royal Slam plus the Osceola.
1:09:18 Steven Rinella? So two-time Royal Holder.
1:09:21 Speaker 06 Yeah, the US Super Slam is all forty-nine states. Or sorry, all forty-nine states that has turkeys.
1:09:26 Steven Rinella? You know what bottlenecks me on that is I only got two, uh, I only got two Goulds.
1:09:33 Speaker 06 Two more than a lot of people.
1:09:35 Steven Rinella? Yeah, but I mean, that's what's bottlenecking me on not being a three-time.
1:09:38 Speaker 03 You ought to start on that forty-nine thing.
1:09:41 Steven Rinella? No.
1:09:42 Speaker 03 No? Not interested?
1:09:43 Steven Rinella? Um, I want to get back to Nate's thing.
1:09:44 Speaker 06 Sorry.
1:09:45 Steven Rinella? All right. Oh, that was great because you would've got corrected.
1:09:47 Speaker 06 Oh, yeah.
1:09:48 Speaker 08 So, dude, I think you just pull that sucker up and go through it.
1:09:51 Steven Rinella? Okay, so you go to TSS for the Common Man, Nate Mason's thing. It's a working draft. He's trying to help you find out if it's right for you. You click Find My Shell.
1:09:59 Speaker 06 Who's a, who's gonna be our hunter?
1:10:02 Speaker 08 Max.
1:10:02 Steven Rinella? Max.
1:10:03 Speaker 06 Okay.
1:10:05 Steven Rinella? Okay, Max. Does your hunting spot actually allow for a forty-five yard shot? Great question.
1:10:10 Speaker 06 No.
1:10:11 Steven Rinella? Oh, you can't see that far?
1:10:14 Speaker 06 I'm, I'm in the trees. I'm in the timber.
1:10:16 Speaker 04 Oh.
1:10:17 Steven Rinella? Okay.
1:10:17 Speaker 06 Boom.
1:10:18 Steven Rinella? Oh.
1:10:21 Speaker 06 Isn't that funny?
1:10:21 Steven Rinella? Yeah, it's already done. Skip the TSS.
1:10:24 Speaker 06 Yeah.
1:10:25 Steven Rinella? Okay, back up.
1:10:26 Speaker 04 You can, you can sell that stash you got, like, make a pretty penny on it.
1:10:31 Steven Rinella? Okay, let's, let's start over, Max. Let's, let's change your story. Let's say you're hunting an area that's like not too heavily timbered.
1:10:37 Speaker 06 For the record, I'm just putting myself in spots that I'm not shooting past forty-five.
1:10:42 Steven Rinella? Yeah, like, like woods hunting, like, or like.
1:10:45 Speaker 08 You're not shooting.
1:10:47 Speaker 06 Yeah, but no, like, even like, out here in Montana, I'm not setting up, um, a hundred yards from a rise. Like, I'm setting up close to that rise. That turkey's coming up. Boom.
1:10:58 Speaker 03 In your face.
1:10:59 Steven Rinella? Yes. But I, I, I know just for the sake of the poor guy's website. Max says, hell yeah. He says, hell yeah, he is. Okay. Does your turkey trip cost $1,000 or more? I would hope not. Let's say no. It does not, Phil.
1:11:19 Speaker 07 Oh, wow. It's getting intense now.
1:11:20 Steven Rinella? Yeah, dude. Now.
1:11:23 Steven Rinella? Your situation, species, Max, Miriam's? Yeah. Okay, we're doing Miriam's. Using a decoy? No.
1:11:30 Speaker 07 No.
1:11:30 Steven Rinella? You don't use a decoy? Depends on the situation. There's a lot of depends.
1:11:34 Speaker 03 Right. Well, that's for by trip.
1:11:35 Steven Rinella? This trip is not. Yeah. Okay. Now, how would you rate the caginess of the turkeys where you hunt, Max? I would give them, oh, it's negative five to five. That's a good name. Butterballs, meaning domestics? Yep. Or, uh, old public land rope draggers?
1:11:50 Speaker 03 Don't do the thing where people say Miriam's are stupid.
1:11:53 Steven Rinella? Yeah, that, that's factored into the species. Uh, give, give it a two.
1:11:57 Speaker 07 Holy cow.
1:11:57 Steven Rinella? Two.
1:11:58 Speaker 07 Two. Oh, growing up.
1:11:59 Steven Rinella? So can you change that to old public land rope draggers? Yeah, I'll change that. I'll take those notes. Yep. Next, me too. Okay. Calling skill. I would say. Don't call and then you're Preston Pittman.
1:12:12 Speaker 03 Don't sell yourself short here, Max.
1:12:14 Steven Rinella? I would one. Oh, no, you're better now. Slightly above average. I would say one.
1:12:18 Speaker 07 Give it a one, five?
1:12:19 Steven Rinella? No, because he's like really good at calling and everything. He's better than me. Okay. Average. Killable gobblers per day. If you hunted a day and had one come through in range, you know, how, how many would you expect?
1:12:38 Steven Rinella? Like, let me give you, for instance, when we go to hunt youth turkey. Okay, if, if we're hunting hard, I would say, uh, not that we're going to get it, not that the kids are going to shoot, but like. I would expect in a day, we're gonna have a bird in range.
1:12:52 Speaker 06 You would lay eyes on a bird.
1:12:53 Steven Rinella? Like, I'd be like, if I was shooting, like, I would, you know, or whatever, how are you looking at it? Just one. Yeah, like, you should have had it. You should have had it. You messed up. Defined by as within seventy yards. He had a hen behind him, so you couldn't shoot. He, like, his head came through a clearing and you weren't ready. You, you, your kid didn't see it in time, whatever, killable turkeys.
1:13:13 Speaker 06 See, this is so tough.
1:13:14 Speaker 03 I would get rid of the yardage thing and just say, because you got it.
1:13:18 Steven Rinella? One, if he hunts hard, he should have, he should have a turkey in range.
1:13:21 Speaker 06 Yes, I go, I would say that, yes. I was thinking about more, but it was just.
1:13:25 Steven Rinella? How many days you got to hunt?
1:13:27 Speaker 06 Uh, three days on Weekend Warrior.
1:13:29 Steven Rinella? Okay, he's gonna do a three-day hunt. Now, your generic, old-school shell, no TSS, your generic shell, what, what's, what's max range for you?
1:13:38 Speaker 06 I'm not shooting past forty.
1:13:39 Steven Rinella? Okay, forty?
1:13:43 Steven Rinella? Okay, this one, here's where I get confused. This is like a mid-range, like a medium, middle of the range. That was like a Kent, like a Kent shell.
1:13:50 Speaker 03 Sure. Premium lead.
1:13:52 Steven Rinella? Premium lead, copper plated. Okay, yeah. So copper plated, so now you got, now you got some, uh, you got some long bir, you got some long beard, what is that up there? Long beard XR. XR. Are you still pushing past forty?
1:14:06 Speaker 06 See, I feel like this all depends. What gauge are you shooting?
1:14:09 Steven Rinella? We'll do this for your setup.
1:14:10 Speaker 03 For you, Max.
1:14:10 Steven Rinella? Twelve.
1:14:11 Speaker 06 For my setup?
1:14:11 Steven Rinella? Yep.
1:14:12 Speaker 06 Twelve gauge, uh, you could push it out to forty.
1:14:16 Steven Rinella? Well, that was your other, that was your. Those are, yeah. So you don't adjust.
1:14:19 Speaker 06 Push it out to fifty.
1:14:20 Steven Rinella? Okay, he's out to fifty now. Now, what's the biggest poke you're gonna take with TSS? Biggest poke? Like, where you gotta get a rest, that kind of shot?
1:14:29 Speaker 06 Oh, my gosh, I.
1:14:31 Steven Rinella? I'll answer for him.
1:14:32 Speaker 06 No, me personally, I'm not shooting past forty. I don't care what kind of shell I'm shooting.
1:14:37 Steven Rinella? Oh. So then he doesn't need TSS. Okay, then take his fifty back to forty and put TSS at forty. I think we know what the answer is gonna be. This guy's like the worst guy in the world. We already answered it off the rip. I know, but he's the worst guy in the world to, to, like, try to get him to push this system.
1:14:52 Speaker 06 Tell you that.
1:14:52 Steven Rinella? This is why.
1:14:53 Speaker 06 Right away.
1:14:53 Steven Rinella? I know, but you know what you're not doing? You're not, like, you're, you're like, you're not just kind of, no, I know, you're trying to stay true to who you are.
1:15:01 Speaker 08 Just go forty fifty six.
1:15:02 Steven Rinella? You're not just bullshitting your way through the survey. But still, let's see.
1:15:06 Speaker 08 Nevermind.
1:15:06 Steven Rinella? Okay, let me, let me, let me override him.
1:15:08 Speaker 08 Okay, great.
1:15:10 Steven Rinella? Just to push the limits.
1:15:11 Speaker 08 It's Steve and Max.
1:15:12 Steven Rinella? Max is like forty with my old.
1:15:14 Speaker 08 Steve's whispering in his ear.
1:15:15 Steven Rinella? He's like forty with my old man's copper plate force.
1:15:18 Speaker 06 Shoot it, he's in range, shoot it.
1:15:20 Steven Rinella? Longbeard XR, I'd stretch it to forty, fifty. TSS, I'm gonna reach out to sixty. Survey says.
1:15:30 Speaker 08 Oh, wow, scraps?
1:15:32 Speaker 06 This is awesome, Nate.
1:15:33 Steven Rinella? Oh.
1:15:34 Speaker 08 The Longbeard XR is the best bang for your buck.
1:15:36 Steven Rinella? Or equivalent. You don't need TSS.
1:15:40 Speaker 04 Right.
1:15:41 Speaker 08 There you go.
1:15:41 Speaker 03 I'll take it all, give it to me. Cause I ain't stopping to shoot that stuff until I run out of it.
1:15:47 Steven Rinella? Okay, the last bit, I told you to check your numbers on shells.
1:15:50 Speaker 08 Yep.
1:15:51 Speaker 04 Cost per additional point.
1:15:53 Speaker 08 So what you're looking at is you're getting a bell curve of where you're gonna get a shot.
1:15:57 Steven Rinella? Yep.
1:15:58 Speaker 08 It might walk up to ten, it might hang up at sixty, but on average, they're gonna be about forty yards. And so you can get that done with the, the medium, middle of the road copper.
1:16:07 Steven Rinella? Okay, and what, what costs are you dealing with here? Cause you took like a little.
1:16:10 Speaker 08 Yeah, so you scroll down, you'll look at the assumptions, and we can make these variable, but generics are gonna cost you about a buck fifty, your middle of the road two fifty, your TSS is gonna cost you seventeen dollars a shell.
1:16:21 Steven Rinella? Today.
1:16:22 Speaker 08 Today.
1:16:22 Steven Rinella? I thought it'd be higher than that by now.
1:16:23 Speaker 08 Probably. Um.
1:16:25 Steven Rinella? You know that takes the fun out of shooting, don't it?
1:16:27 Speaker 08 Yeah, and you're.
1:16:28 Steven Rinella? Seventeen bucks.
1:16:29 Speaker 08 Exactly.
1:16:29 Speaker 03 I just don't think about it. You're like, a turkey's worth twenty bucks to me, man.
1:16:34 Steven Rinella? I know, but don't you sometimes feel like just ripping a couple extra shots at the paper?
1:16:38 Speaker 08 I do.
1:16:39 Steven Rinella? Yanni Chimani, he says he, when he's, when he's, uh, patterning out, he's patterning out on old schoolers. And then he double checks on his TSS.
1:16:48 Speaker 06 Or birdshot.
1:16:49 Speaker 03 Yeah, I just use cheap.
1:16:50 Steven Rinella? Yep.
1:16:51 Speaker 06 Target loads, yeah.
1:16:54 Steven Rinella? Hit the URL again?
1:16:55 Speaker 08 TheTSSTest.com.
1:16:57 Steven Rinella? And what is your pathway toward monetizing this test?
1:17:00 Speaker 08 I haven't figured that out yet.
1:17:01 Steven Rinella? How many site visits have you had?
1:17:03 Speaker 08 I don't know how to read that data.
1:17:07 Steven Rinella? I bought that sucker and shipped it. I'm afraid that you'll have three site visits and they all came from the same, uh, I, uh, same address.
1:17:16 Speaker 06 I like the bottom.
1:17:17 Steven Rinella? Yeah.
1:17:18 Speaker 06 There's like bottom, it's almost like in quotes, but it's like immediate or laboratories resource.
1:17:22 Steven Rinella? Yeah, no, it's good. He really branded.
1:17:25 Speaker 06 Great touch.
1:17:25 Steven Rinella? He put more into branding than he put into thinking.
1:17:28 Speaker 03 You know, you know, you might get an, an offer from Big Lead to buy this website.
1:17:33 Steven Rinella? Big Lead?
1:17:33 Speaker 03 Yeah.
1:17:34 Steven Rinella? They got a lot of money. Yeah, I bet you TSS.com. He's in the pocket of Big Lead.
1:17:44 Steven Rinella? Okay. So we covered turkey season updates. We covered the TSS purchase guide. Again, please listeners, go to the TSS test.com and find out if TSS is right for you.
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1:19:48 Steven Rinella? Over to Spencer.
1:19:51 Speaker 05 I'm gonna talk about Death Valley National Park. Death Valley, it's the biggest national park in the lower 48. It's located about two hours west of Las Vegas in east central California. Part of the park spills over into Nevada, but not much of it. When you think of like Death Valley, you're thinking of the California portion. It's the lowest, driest, and hottest place on the continent and all of North America. One part of the park sits at 282 feet below sea level. It averages less than two inches of precipitation every year. And actually in 1929, in 1953, there was no precipitation at all recorded. It currently holds the world record for the hottest temperature ever recorded when it
1:20:34 Speaker 05 reached 134 degrees Fahrenheit on July 10, 1913. So now you know all about the, what Death Valley looks like and feels like.
1:20:44 Steven Rinella? Well, I'll tell you one thing you didn't mention that I always liked. Water doesn't leave there.
1:20:49 Speaker 05 Hmm, just a basin.
1:20:50 Steven Rinella? Yeah, because it's a below sea, yeah, it's a dead end.
1:20:53 Speaker 05 Yeah, I think it's, it's like the remnants of an old lake that used to be 7,000 feet deep.
1:20:59 Steven Rinella? Oh, really?
1:20:59 Speaker 05 And now what's left there is Death Valley. Now, despite this intense heat and lack of rain, stuff still grows there. They have mesquite trees, prickly pear cactus, bitter root, whole bunch of succulents and cacti. Then there's a number of wildflowers. Now, most of these wildflowers only show up during a super bloom. The Death Valley Superbloom only happens about every 10 years.
1:21:21 Steven Rinella? Oh.
1:21:22 Speaker 05 The last time it happened was in 2016. Prior to that, there was one in 2005 and 1998. Uh, they require perfect conditions. Most notably, you need a wet fall in winter. Uh, and it's precipitation that washes the salt off of the wildflower seeds and wakes them up after they lay dormant for a decade.
1:21:42 Steven Rinella? No kidding. The seeds are salted.
1:21:44 Speaker 05 Mm-hmm. And, and that precipitation will take the salt away and it signals, you know, to the seeds. Okay, time to go. You can almost see like the path that the water takes. Hmm, yeah. We're looking at pictures right now. You can see them on YouTube.
1:21:57 Speaker 03 How long from moisture to this?
1:22:00 Speaker 05 Uh, well, these, these pictures, the super bloom can vary. We'll, we'll get to it in a second. But like when I was there in 2023, I was there in mid-March. Uh, flowers did not start blooming until late March that year. They had, they had an above-average bloom. It was not a super bloom.
1:22:16 Steven Rinella? Were you trying to hit the bloom?
1:22:17 Speaker 05 Um, I knew it would be a good time to be, it wasn't like the point of the whole trip.
1:22:21 Steven Rinella? Yep.
1:22:22 Speaker 05 But it was like a, a factor in being there in mid-March. Uh, yeah, the, the perfect conditions, mostly it's just a wet fall in winter. Uh, there are about 20 of these wildflowers that participate in the super bloom. Uh, they have a short growing window when they do show up. Now it's similar to predator swamping. Explain what that is, Steve. Predator swapping.
1:22:41 Steven Rinella? Yeah, it's a reproductive strategy that humans interpret as, um, let's say they have a large nesting colony of birds.
1:22:52 Steven Rinella? If they all lay their eggs at the same time, the local predator population doesn't have a chance of getting them all.
1:23:00 Speaker 05 Mm-hmm.
1:23:00 Steven Rinella? They'll kind of work the edges of the colony, but they'll never get them all. Whereas if those birds spread their nesting out over a month. You would just have a month of sporadic predation. So predator swamping like when when elk all tend to hit the ground elk fawns all hit the ground on the same day.
1:23:17 Speaker 05 Caves, caves, you're gonna get corrected.
1:23:20 Steven Rinella? Elk calves, they all hit the ground the same day. Some are gonna live. If they all hit the ground over the course of six weeks, it could be they all get killed.
1:23:27 Speaker 05 Yeah.
1:23:28 Steven Rinella? Right? Predator swamp. You're overwhelming predators.
1:23:30 Speaker 05 That that would be like a mammal version of that. And I think other, you know, animals will participate as well. The super bloom does a similar thing. It overwhelms the landscape. Uh, because by blooming simultaneously, they'll guaranteed to attract a lot of pollinators, butterflies, moths, bees, hummingbirds. That otherwise aren't going to show up in Death Valley and visit this desert. Uh, now here's why I'm talking about this today. 2026 is a super bloom year. Uh, and this was predicted going back to September, uh, because they got a big rainfall then it was followed by two and a half more inches of rain between November and January. That's that's exactly what you want for a super bloom. Uh, I found a blog post from a Death Valley guide on November 14, 2025, where he said, quote, "I don't recall a setup quite this favorable in the last 15 years."
1:24:15 Speaker 05 Uh, and that guide was right. The super bloom started in mid-February. Uh, it's expected to last into May. It likely peaked.
1:24:22 Speaker 03 That's what I was gonna ask you. So it lasts a while. It's not like a week and they're all gone.
1:24:27 Speaker 05 Once the flowers are up, the biggest thing is heat and wind. Those are the enemies of like a lasting super bloom. Now, this one probably peaked a couple of weeks ago because they had some really intense wind and heat. Uh, it knocked down a lot of those wildflowers, but there's still plenty to see. And it's it also varies by elevation. So obviously the lowest elevation places come into super bloom first, uh, followed by the mid and higher elevations. Uh, and the the higher elevation are where the super bloom will last into early summer. Uh, now if you live in the area, you can go check it out. I visited Death Valley in 2023. Like I said, it's one of my favorite parks.
1:25:03 Speaker 05 Uh, it's one of the only parks that has year-round dispersed camping. Uh, it's got the best stargazing I've ever experienced. It's it's super remote. So make sure you fill up on gas first and you have a good spare tire. Uh, and take a trip to the racetrack playa. You'll see the sailing stones that move on their own. And then, of course, this year you'll get the rare super bloom that's happening.
1:25:22 Steven Rinella? Excellent job.
1:25:23 Speaker 03 Wow.
1:25:23 Speaker 05 Thank you.
1:25:24 Steven Rinella? Didn't need to build no website for that, did you?
1:25:26 Speaker 05 No.
1:25:28 Speaker 05 No.
1:25:29 Steven Rinella? Excellent job.
1:25:31 Steven Rinella? It's beautiful.
1:25:31 Speaker 05 Hottest, driest, lowest place on earth and all those pretty flowers.
1:25:35 Steven Rinella? Not on earth.
1:25:35 Speaker 05 I'm sorry. Good, good catch. In North America.
1:25:38 Steven Rinella? Yeah, uh, i- inside of Santiago, somewhere around there, the driest place on earth, like the Alp.
1:25:43 Speaker 03 Chili.
1:25:44 Steven Rinella? Sorry, yeah, and chili driest place on earth.
1:25:46 Speaker 05 Hmm.
1:25:47 Steven Rinella? Yeah.
1:25:47 Speaker 05 Can't even, like, that must be less than an inch of precipitation a year. Wow.
1:25:52 Steven Rinella? Uh, no rain.
1:25:54 Speaker 05 Disgusting.
1:25:55 Steven Rinella? All right, Max, over to you, North Dakota poachers.
1:25:57 Speaker 06 All right. So, you know how the 1880s had Jesse James and Frank James?
1:26:03 Steven Rinella? Oh, yeah.
1:26:03 Speaker 06 Well, 2026 has Tatum and Tyler Defoe.
1:26:08 Speaker 05 Oh.
1:26:09 Steven Rinella? Hmm.
1:26:09 Speaker 06 Going to my home state, North Dakota. Bad dudes. Uh, Watford City, North Dakota, which is in the northwest part of the state, I would say. Um, the remains of over 30 deer, three bowl, bowl elk, and even a moose with antlers were found by law enforcement at the residence of a Watford City man who is now under arrest and currently being held at the Southwest Multi-County Correction Center in Dickinson, North Dakota.
1:26:33 Steven Rinella? Where in the hell's he getting the moose?
1:26:35 Speaker 06 I do not know. There, there's moose in North Dakota.
1:26:37 Steven Rinella? But he like took it home with him.
1:26:41 Steven Rinella? Or at least the head. Yeah.
1:26:43 Speaker 06 This.
1:26:44 Steven Rinella? Yeah, I understand.
1:26:44 Speaker 06 This article didn't really say how they got it. It was just like.
1:26:49 Steven Rinella? That it's there. He's got it on his place.
1:26:50 Speaker 06 Yep. Um, so back in December of 2024, the residence of Tatum, Tatum and Tyler Defoe was being searched by law enforcement on a different warrant. Law enforcement happened to see some untagged, uh, heads there and they notified a local game warrant.
1:27:07 Speaker 03 Seems like a lot of poachers get nailed via unrelated charges.
1:27:11 Speaker 06 Yes.
1:27:12 Steven Rinella? Oh, yeah.
1:27:13 Speaker 06 Um, and then a new search by the North Dakota game and fish, um, that lasted about six hours. Um, and then the warden removed the following from the residence. Thirty-four sets of antlers and heads of whitetail and mule deer. Two elk heads with antlers, so a bowl elk, one moose with antlers, so a bowl moose. And, uh, multiple bags of meat in a bobcat rug. North Dakota game warrants reached out to surrounding states um to see like hey you guys have any licenses? Take a guess.
1:27:46 Speaker 03 Montana.
1:27:47 Speaker 06 No. No licenses found. Oh.
1:27:51 Speaker 03 But didn't they have charges in Montana? Yeah.
1:27:54 Speaker 06 Meaning they can't, he can't explain it away by like, oh, I've been hunting all over hell. Yeah. Yeah.
1:27:59 Speaker 03 I thought they were connected to some stuff in Montana, but maybe not.
1:28:03 Speaker 06 No, um, in the article I read, uh, the warden reached out to both Montana and South Dakota to verify, um, zero big game licenses were found.
1:28:11 Speaker 08 What's stopping them from just saying they're a bunch of deadheads?
1:28:15 Speaker 06 Great question.
1:28:16 Speaker 08 Cause I, I, my buddy brought up this question. Cause he was running around with a new hunter who doesn't know anything about anything and he was like, I don't want to take this deadhead because I don't have a salvage tag for it. And so I thought, I called Montana FWP and they're like, yeah, you don't need a salvage tag.
1:28:31 Speaker 06 Yeah.
1:28:32 Speaker 04 Maybe it depends on what state it's in, you know, if it's like a head that was cut off.
1:28:36 Speaker 03 It's like, if, if for some reason, a, a, a, a police officer or game warden is on your property and they see a deadhead or two deadheads versus finding thirty.
1:28:49 Speaker 08 Yeah, but I've found five this year. I got all sorts of deadheads all over the place.
1:28:53 Speaker 06 So I think this article, when it says, um,
1:29:00 Speaker 06 elk heads, I think it's like a mounted taxidermy, you know, it's, it's not a European mounted
1:29:05 Speaker 08 Yeah.
1:29:05 Speaker 06 deadhead. Um, so yeah, um, going back to this, um, the maximum penalty for a single class A misdemeanor under North Dakota law is three hundred and sixty days in prison, a three thousand dollar fine or both.
1:29:19 Speaker 08 Hmm.
1:29:19 Speaker 06 The youngest, the youngest of the two, Tatum, was initially charged with fifteen separate class A misdemeanor charges.
1:29:28 Steven Rinella? Wow.
1:29:29 Speaker 06 Uh, yeah, he's currently being held in Dickinson, North Dakota. Um, I didn't really find much about his older brother Tyler Defoe. It's the article just said he was, uh, had nearly identical charges stemming from the same incident.
1:29:45 Steven Rinella? Got it.
1:29:45 Speaker 06 But that was it. Um, I don't know if he's in jail or what's happening. So, um,
1:29:50 Speaker 03 Did they like, did they tie any of those heads to like known poaching cases they were trying to solve?
1:29:57 Speaker 06 No. I didn't, this article is very bleak.
1:29:59 Speaker 03 Yeah.
1:30:00 Speaker 06 Um, so, and I think it's important to note, um, both Defoe's are considered into, considered innocent until proven guilty. So, we'll find out. I'll circle back on this in a couple of weeks and see what happens.
1:30:14 Steven Rinella? That's a lot of charges, man.
1:30:15 Speaker 06 Yeah, I know they had a couple of court dates here coming up. So.
1:30:19 Speaker 05 Western North Dakota doesn't produce a lot of bull elk and moose. So that like, you know,
1:30:24 Steven Rinella? Makes you wonder, man. That's the things you wonder about, yeah.
1:30:27 Speaker 06 Yeah, I know there's like bad like, it's like in the Badlands in Western North Dakota, there's lots of elk, but, um, yeah, having two of those, I, I think it's like a once in a lifetime tag.
1:30:36 Steven Rinella? But I wouldn't be, I don't know what I'm talking about, cause I don't know. But I mean, I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out that those weren't local.
1:30:42 Speaker 06 Yeah, like hopping.
1:30:43 Steven Rinella? That's why, that's why they're talking about calling other states.
1:30:47 Speaker 06 And well, once you cross the state line, doesn't it turn into a whole other?
1:30:50 Steven Rinella? Lacey, lacy like violation, yeah. Then it's a federal crime.
1:30:53 Speaker 06 Um, but yeah, I think.
1:30:54 Steven Rinella? That's kind of what piqued my curiosity about it. Is that, um, you know, not to say that they don't, but those are animals not mostly associated there. And the fact that they're calling other states leads you to believe that that's what they're curious about.
1:31:07 Speaker 06 For sure. So, we'll find out.
1:31:10 Steven Rinella? Yep.
1:31:12 Steven Rinella? Okay, lastly.
1:31:14 Steven Rinella? I just got. So I just recently got a, a, um, a moose harvest report. Okay, looking at moose harvest statistics.
1:31:24 Speaker 03 For here.
1:31:25 Steven Rinella? Yeah, but it, w- within this report that I got, I got this other really interesting thing about moose.
1:31:34 Steven Rinella? Moose in general on our continent. So, Canada, United States of America, the moose population, in a way that they used to understand moose, in a way that they, the, the, the evolving understanding of how moose came to be. Now, I'll just do a little trivia. What do you, what do you got? What moose do we have here?
1:31:52 Speaker 03 Chyris and up in northern, we have a Canadian.
1:31:57 Steven Rinella? Canada.
1:31:58 Speaker 03 Or whatever they call them.
1:31:59 Steven Rinella? So. Yeah, so you have, in moose taxonomy, they recognize you have the Yukon.
1:32:05 Speaker 03 Yep.
1:32:06 Steven Rinella? Moose, which is the biggest. Then, the Canadian moose. Then you have the Chyris moose. And then I think there's another one they call out east, like the eastern. And maybe, is there a Labrador too?
1:32:18 Speaker 03 Newfoundland or Labrador, something like that.
1:32:21 Steven Rinella? So, these, they have these different moose, these different moose branches. In, in moose taxonomy. They used to do this a lot. For, for instance, there used to be, I don't know, they used to recognize a dozen caribou.
1:32:34 Speaker 03 Seven different kinds of elk or something like that.
1:32:37 Steven Rinella? Seven kinds of elk, dozen caribou. And they used to think that these things were genetically different. Think about this, the Mexican gray wolf. And then the wolf, the regular gray wolf, okay? So, we have these different genetic distinctions. And what you're doing is you, when they look at the genome of the species, you usually are, are, when, when it's valid, okay? Like, take, let's start with this example, I'm trying to say. Take black-tailed deer and mule deer. Black-tailed deer and mule deer are regarded as legitimately different. They're like, that is a legitimate subspecies.
1:33:19 Steven Rinella? And what, what makes it that way is they can see evidence that there was a, a serious, distinct genetic barrier. Meaning, there was a time when black-tailed deer.
1:33:35 Steven Rinella? Were not able to interbreed. They were, they were physically separated from mule deer at a time.
1:33:42 Steven Rinella? Now they're not. Now they bleed into each other. Like I, I, I've pointed this out before. There's places like in, in California. If a deer is standing on the west side of I five. It's a black tailed deer. If it's standing on the east side of I five, it's a mule deer. But when you look at them genetically, you can tell that these two things were different and they were separated.
1:34:07 Steven Rinella? What was separating them in all these cases in North America, it was what was separating them was like old glaciation. So you had glacial barriers that cut animal populations in chunks. And so areas where we have these like legitimate subspecies, it was because they were separated. When you look at caribou, they had like, I don't know what the, a dozen caribou. Running around. They now think that there are two legitimate caribou subspecies. Barren ground.
1:34:36 Speaker 03 And woodland.
1:34:37 Steven Rinella? Barren ground were north of the glaciers. Woodland survived south of the glaciers. The glaciers go away, everything melts, they can intermingle, but they're still like, those are legitimate subspecies. For a long time, people thought that the Chyris moose.
1:34:54 Steven Rinella? Was a subspecies and there was this idea that it had found refuge. South of the great ice sheets and evolved on its own and these other moose evolved to the north. And I was even unaware that this thinking was changing. But they're doing more and more genetic work and it's like. All these different moose, Yukon, Canada, Chyris. What you, when you look at them and you see the differences, all you're seeing is, is habitat. Like distinct habitat and nutrition.
1:35:28 Speaker 03 And what's the, uh.
1:35:31 Speaker 03 Shit, what is it? The thing north to south or south to north?
1:35:34 Steven Rinella? Bergman's principle.
1:35:35 Speaker 03 That could play a role too.
1:35:36 Steven Rinella? Body size. So like in Berg, Bergman's principle, we've talked about this a hundred times, like Bergman's principle, if you look at a mammals range. The largest specimens are on the north end of the range, the smallest specimens are on the south end of the range, which fits. So look at all this stuff like antler configuration of a Chyris moose. The Chyris moose doesn't have different antler configuration. It's just smaller. And they they wound up doing this thing. I'm looking at this map. And it surveyed fossils in North America over fifteen thousand years. And it's crazy because like over fifteen thousand years you have. I'm looking at this map where it's showing caribou fossils coming out of Nebraska.
1:36:16 Speaker 03 Well, oh, I I was doing some research for the book where they they've found caribou Tennessee, Alabama, like way down south.
1:36:24 Steven Rinella? Well, this is over fifteen thousand years. So I got caribou fossils over in South Carolina, North Carolina, caribou fossils in Nebraska. Deer fossils, southern Florida, just everywhere. Okay. Elk fossils down in New Mexico. There is no older than fifteen thousand year moose fossil. The the southernmost, the southernmost, over fifteen thousand year old moose fossil found to date sits at the Alaska Yukon border.
1:36:58 Speaker 03 So north of the glaciers.
1:37:00 Steven Rinella? Yeah. They other stuff was down. Right? Like, and in this map, there's this huge band across central Canada where there's no fossil, no fossils from over the time because nothing was there. So you had stuff that was north of it and stuff that was south of it. What you had north of it? You had elk. You had moose. You had caribou. South of it. You had deer. You had caribou. You had elk.
1:37:29 Speaker 03 No moose. That's wild.
1:37:30 Steven Rinella? No moose. And so they they're saying that like all moose, all moose at the end of the Ice Age came out of Beringia. Spread south and there's never been a point when and you did not have genetic barriers. They've always just been like you would start in one place and you'd travel. And there'd be moose and you'd slowly realize they look different.
1:37:53 Speaker 03 Yeah, over time, they just adapted to that habitat.
1:37:56 Steven Rinella? Nutrition, habitat, and they also this this paper also talks a lot about density. That like density is impacting size.
1:38:06 Speaker 03 Yeah.
1:38:07 Steven Rinella? High density. Small size.
1:38:11 Speaker 03 What's wild is they were moving. Uh, down here at the same time humans were.
1:38:16 Steven Rinella? That's the crazy part too.
1:38:17 Speaker 03 Timeline.
1:38:18 Steven Rinella? Yeah, that that's that's kind of like. It would be that if if you always imagine going back, like you want to go back to the Pleistocene to the Clovis age. You could be like the, the first humans that came down out of Beringia and hit the American Great Plains. They, they might've done that faster than, they might've been in a moose-free environment. And then one day it'd be like, wow, there's moose showing up.
1:38:40 Speaker 03 What's that thing?
1:38:40 Steven Rinella? Yeah, because the moose came at the same time as humans.
1:38:43 Speaker 03 Yep.
1:38:45 Steven Rinella? I think it's fascinating. The map is cool.
1:38:47 Speaker 03 Yeah.
1:38:47 Steven Rinella? Yeah. There were no deer, the most, this is what's crazy too, the most northern deer fossils over 15,000 years have come out of like the, the Prince of Wales Island area.
1:38:59 Speaker 03 So black tails.
1:39:00 Steven Rinella? Yep. On the coast, on the coast, probably ice free.
1:39:05 Speaker 03 Yep.
1:39:05 Steven Rinella? You had some black tails on the coast and then it's like you didn't have northern deer and you didn't have southern moose.
1:39:12 Speaker 03 That's super cool.
1:39:13 Steven Rinella? Yeah. It's just a kind of a changing perspective of why, why is a Shiras, because when they look at a Shiras moose, they're like, his antlers are smaller, his coat is different colored. There's these other head measurements that are different and you're like, oh, they must've been different.
1:39:30 Speaker 03 Right.
1:39:30 Steven Rinella? But it's like, it's just how the species was reflected, how the landscape changed the species, how the species adapted to the landscape, right?
1:39:42 Speaker 03 It'd be interesting to see what other species will, they'll look at and try and follow that same
1:39:49 Steven Rinella? Yep.
1:39:49 Speaker 03 trend, you know?
1:39:50 Steven Rinella? Yep.
1:39:51 Speaker 05 For size reference, the Boone and Crockett minimum score for a Shiras moose is 140, for a Canada moose is 185.
1:40:00 Steven Rinella? There you go.
1:40:00 Speaker 05 Forty-five inch difference. And then for a Yukon moose, it's 210. So this is like a Canada and Yukon are closer in minimum size than Boone and Crockett, than Shiras and Canada.
1:40:11 Speaker 03 Boone and Crockett score is kind of weird to envision with moose. I like, spread wise, I would say like a Shiras, a good bull's like 40 inches wide.
1:40:19 Speaker 05 If you look at the all-time record, the world record, um, for a Canada is 242, for a Shiras is 205.
1:40:28 Steven Rinella? I'm gonna make people dig this up themselves. I don't want to tell them. But there is a unit in Montana where the average.
1:40:37 Steven Rinella? Fifty inches? The five-year average is a forty-nine inch width. And you look at most of the units, the five-year average is down in the upper thirties. Yeah. Hmm. Like forty's a decent Shire. Hot unit. Yeah. And you know what's funny? People know this because it's a low draw odd unit. People figured it out. They're all low draw. Everything is point oh one percent chance. No, no. No. Not true. Okay. Not true. Thanks for listening to the new show. I know some that are...
1:41:04 Steven Rinella? Thanks, everybody.
1:41:06 Speaker 12 When you flew out the window and into the sunset I thought I would never stop screaming
1:41:22 Speaker 12 I thought I would never stop screaming your name
1:41:37 Speaker 12 But I ran out of breath, so I took in some more And I started to screaming louder
1:41:52 Speaker 12 Screaming goes on for hours and days
1:42:06 Speaker 12 So if you and I love is forever Then I'll probably be screaming that long I'm trying to be cool here, but inside I'm screaming this song
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