Travis Barker | The Magnificent Others with Billy Corgan

Blink-182 drummer Travis Barker joins Billy for a conversation that swings from skate culture to the lasting effects of surviving a plane crash. Barker talks about how growing up listening to everything from Dr. Dre to Metallica shaped his anything-goes approach to drumming and producing. He recalls playing Black Sabbath’s farewell show for Ozzy Osbourne—and the family moment that made the trip impossible to miss. Then the conversation gets candid about survivor’s guilt, losing friends, finding his way back to flying, and how telling his story in a documentary helped him move forward. Along the way, Billy and Travis veer into the Ramones, Vans, matcha, and the cheerful chaos of a seven-kid household. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

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• 0:30Speaker 01

  A light bulb went off in my head. I'm like, I'm never gonna get a job. This is the best thing ever. I'm gonna get more tattoos because then I have to play drums.

• 0:37Billy Corgan?

  I think you are probably the most influential drummer of the last 30 years.

• 0:41Speaker 01

  Plan B was making Plan A work. There was no, there was no Plan B.

• 0:44Billy Corgan?

  Yeah. Before you, people didn't play like that. And after you, almost everybody plays like you.

• 0:49Speaker 01

  Could I find a way where I could survive playing the drums?

• 0:54Billy Corgan?

  It's pop, power pop, but it's punk and it's skate culture and tattoo culture.

• 1:00Speaker 01

  I actually was in the burn center for about four to six months, 30 surgeries.

• 1:06Billy Corgan?

  You gotta, somehow you gotta find the strength, not only to recover and heal, but you gotta pick up back the thing that is your thing.

• 1:11Speaker 01

  He's like, I can't, I don't know. I don't know if I'm gonna play drums again. So no one knew, but both of my, my hands were numb.

• 1:20Billy Corgan?

  Travis, nice to see you.

• 1:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:22Billy Corgan?

  Thank you for being here today.

• 1:23Speaker 01

  Of course.

• 1:24Billy Corgan?

  So.

• 1:24Speaker 01

  You're having me.

• 1:26Billy Corgan?

  Usually when I interview a musician, you know, the easiest journey is to just kind of go down the musical. Cause as you know, we almost define our life on, oh, I was touring on that album. Do you have, do that too? Is that not the same for you?

• 1:38Speaker 01

  What do you mean?

• 1:39Billy Corgan?

  Well, it's like, um, like somebody will say, oh, um, remember when this happened? I'm like, oh yeah, that's when I was touring on this album. It's like, I, my life is always segmented by what album I was doing at the time. Do you have that?

• 1:49Speaker 01

  You probably have a way better memory than me. It's all a blur to me.

• 1:52Billy Corgan?

  Really?

• 1:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:53Billy Corgan?

  Well, this interview's gonna go great.

• 1:54Speaker 01

  I can't remember anything. Well, no, I can't like.

• 1:57Billy Corgan?

  I know what you mean.

• 1:58Speaker 01

  Even my wife or band will be like, you remember that? It was hell. And I'm like, no. But then when I get there, something will hit me like, I remember the poor.

• 2:04Billy Corgan?

  Are you a live in the moment type of person?

• 2:06Speaker 01

  I am, very much so.

• 2:07Billy Corgan?

  Yeah, okay. Well, maybe that's.

• 2:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:09Billy Corgan?

  So, congratulations, new documentary, Louder Than Fear. It's interesting because you've had such an interesting life in so many different directions that, that in a way, if we just talked about the musical journey, it doesn't really sum up your life experience.

• 2:20Speaker 01

  Yeah. I was thinking about that on my way over. I was like, I don't know what I would ask me.

• 2:24Billy Corgan?

  Okay, well, you know, so we'll see. We'll see how I do.

• 2:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:27Billy Corgan?

  Um, so I want to start here. Um, uh, we last talked when I saw you at the, uh, Back to the Beginning, the, the Last Sabbath show.

• 2:35Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:36Billy Corgan?

  Um, so let's start there. I mean, I, I was very honored to be there and I got the feeling you were too, but I don't want to speak for you.

• 2:41Speaker 01

  Me too. I couldn't, and I wouldn't miss it. I grew up on Ozzy. Um, grew up loving Randy Rhoads and, I don't know, Ozzy was everything. He was like this character that almost seemed to make believe because he was so cool. He was such like a, I don't, I don't know, it didn't, didn't seem real. Um, and yeah, I remember I was telling, uh, I was telling one of my best friends, because I've, I've always had a, uh, I've always struggled with flying, you know? When it came up, I was like, oh, I want to do this so bad. But the flight to England just scares the [__] out of me, you know? Um, and then I was talking to my friend, he's like, there's not a chance you don't do it. And I'm like, you know what? You're right.

• 3:25Speaker 01

  And then my son, who was like a year and a half at the time, was in the backyard wearing an Ozzy Osbourne shirt. And this guy that was helping build this playground with me, who was like an older, an older guy with long hair, saw my son's T-shirt and he, he told me how much Ozzy Osbourne means to him. And it stopped me in my tracks. And I went in the house and I was like, babe, 1,000% we're going. There's not a chance I would miss this for anything. Like, it just reminded me, um, how, how special it is to be a part of something like that, you know?

• 4:00Billy Corgan?

  So I'm glad you brought up your wife and your son because one of my favorite memories was, you know, it was very much a family atmosphere. I think Sharon really set the tone with that. It really felt like the family of the bands.

• 4:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:12Billy Corgan?

  And as you know, because you've played a lot of festivals, bands don't always hang out, but that was a rare time when everybody was hanging out, everybody was watching each other play. And one of my favorite memories from that day was watching your wife and your son watch you play.

• 4:25Speaker 01

  Ah.

• 4:26Billy Corgan?

  And I was missing my kids. So I, I, I got teared up looking at your wife and your kid because I saw how much love they had for you. It was like that kind of, that moment of feeling that, that love that goes on.

• 4:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:39Billy Corgan?

  And unfortunately, we don't always get to experience that because we live in these weird silos with our bands and the thing and the travel and what time are you on? So it was a really nice moment to just step back and say, wow, here we all are. Such a unique group of artists. And you see the influence that Sabbath had so many different directions.

• 4:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:57Billy Corgan?

  You know, the diversity of artists that were up there, but that, the ton of true love for the band and Oz. It was such a beautiful thing. But I have a very clear memory of looking down and seeing your kid.

• 5:08Speaker 01

  Wow, that's beautiful.

• 5:08Billy Corgan?

  It's just so, so, so beautiful.

• 5:10Speaker 01

  There's not a better feeling than being in that environment and seeing like my son and.

• 5:16Billy Corgan?

  Cause your kid was kind of the right of the stage. So you were right there and they were watching you play like right there. It was so cool. So that's just a person.

• 5:22Speaker 01

  And that was just beautiful. Like, it was like heavy metal band camp. It was, it was so cool. I, I, it's one of the coolest experiences in, in my life as far as like playing with other musicians. And I love collaborating and stuff. That was unbeatable.

• 5:38Billy Corgan?

  Yeah. Um, I talked to Scott Ian recently about it and he was saying it was, as far as he was, it was probably the greatest musical day of his life. You know, there's something about being there with all his peers and us. And it just meant so much to him. And, you know, I said, can you imagine that the guy who was, you know, going to see Dio when he was a kid would be up there with Oz and the band? And he was like, no, it's like a dream, you know?

• 6:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was, it was a dream. It was, it was unreal. It was so cool.

• 6:09Billy Corgan?

  Um, this is a weird question, so, but please put up with me on this question. But you're, you'd be one of the only people I would ask this question to. And, and the context for it is, is, uh, growing up in Chicago, you know, Chicago's very working class. So our conception of the West Coast was always television. Like 70's television, like Chips and everybody looked beautiful and was cool. But LA or California, it's all the same in my brain. But the West Coast, it's, it's a much different experience for people who grew up here. Is that a fair thing, do you think, to say?

• 6:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, depending on where you grew up.

• 6:46Billy Corgan?

  I think, I think maybe, okay, because you were Inland Empire, right? Is that fair? Yeah. So I'm just saying is, like, when we first came out here, uh, when we were young, like in the early 90's, you know, we were all starry eyed, like a lot of people get when they come out, like movie stars. And, and, but people in LA are, so they were just kind of like, oh yeah, like it's not a big deal. You know, there's celebrity everywhere.

• 7:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:06Billy Corgan?

  But the reason I'm asking you this question, and I think it has to do with your musical life is, it seems like to me, coming from Chicago, that there was a greater sort of mixing of influences and style. And I know for us in the Pumpkins, we found it kind of confusing. Does that make sense the way I'm asking, or is it too, too esoteric, the way I'm asking?

• 7:27Speaker 01

  Uh, what was confusing?

• 7:29Billy Corgan?

  Well, it's like the mixture between like power pop, like using your band as Blink as an example. It's like, it's a weird mixture of, of, of influence to us from Chicago who grew up on like classic rock. Like, it's like, okay, wait, so it's pop, power pop, but it's punk and it's skate culture and tattoo culture? And like, we found it all kind of confusing.

• 7:52Speaker 01

  Are you talking about like the genre, uh, in which Blink's from? Is that what you're talking about?

• 7:56Billy Corgan?

  Sort of, but also, also that there's something about growing up here that I think maybe, because you get exposed to more influences, there's a greater openness to influence? Like when I think about you through the years, like, not only the way you've adorned yourself, but your, your forays into fashion and DJing and the people you've worked with, there seems to be a different openness.

• 8:18Speaker 01

  Um, I mean, I know I've, I've probably said it a lot in like recent interviews, but, but skateboarding really raised me. And skateboarding,

• 8:29Speaker 01

  it was everything. It, it, uh.

• 8:32Billy Corgan?

  For somebody, because I.

• 8:33Speaker 01

  Skate videos, skate videos were like, you would have the Far Side, which was like a rap group in a skate video, or The Alcoholics. Then you would have Operation Ivy and, uh, JFA, whatever, whatever. You know what I mean? You would have all these different, uh, kinds of music. Also where I grew up in, in Fontana, there was, uh, you know, there was a big, huge like lowrider community. And I would see lowriders on a daily basis. Then I would see a bunch of bikers. And then there would be punk shows and then there would be metal shows.

• 9:06Billy Corgan?

  That's kind of what I'm after.

• 9:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:07Billy Corgan?

  It seems to be a different set of influences that seems very, on one level, it's very akin to this part of the world, but on the same level, it seems to create an openness in the artists.

• 9:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think so. Cause I know I was, I was what I like to call happily confused. I was, you know, growing up on.

• 9:25Billy Corgan?

  Yeah, I love that.

• 9:25Speaker 01

  On Dr. Dre, Snoop Dogg, Tupac, whatever. But at the same time, I'm listening to Smashing Pumpkins, Dinosaur Jr., Screaming Trees, uh.

• 9:35Speaker 01

  You know, Minor Threat, Dag Nasty and Gorilla Biscuit, everything. You know what I mean? And it was, it was beautiful.

• 9:42Billy Corgan?

  So you think that had a lot to do with skate culture?

• 9:44Speaker 01

  But we were also, you know, people would try to put you in a box.

• 9:48Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 9:48Speaker 01

  When I was a little younger, it was like, oh, if you wore a a Palo Peralta shirt, you were a skateboarder and you can only listen to this type of music. But I think skateboarding helped break those, those walls down too. Because it was like, nah, we like everything, you know? We're inspired by everything. Like, I know for me, even in Blink, I was in, I'm inspired by everything. I let myself be inspired by everything. It might be something I heard from like a Beasties record or something I heard from a J Dilla record or a DJ Shadow record. It was, it was like, no rules. Anything that I heard, I was inspired by.

• 10:26Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 10:27Speaker 01

  You know?

• 10:28Billy Corgan?

  I was, I was, last time I saw you, I was fanboying a bit on your production because I think you're a great producer. And I don't say that about a lot of people. And I was kind of curious, like, do you have a production philosophy? Or is it just part of that same openness? Like wherever, wherever your excitement goes, that's where you go.

• 10:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, and whatever, whatever I'm feeling, I think is really important. I don't really have, it's kind of different rule, no rules, because it's different for every artist.

• 10:53Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 10:53Speaker 01

  You know, so whatever I'm thrown into, I, I, I try to really submerge myself into that world.

• 10:59Billy Corgan?

  Is production something you want to do more of?

• 11:03Billy Corgan?

  Because you're kind of an infrequent producer. Is it more based on relationships that you have and?

• 11:07Speaker 01

  I just, I just finished like two entire albums. So now I have like a little break and I'm, it's, it's, it's fun to do something different. Like right now, I'm learning 30 songs for Ramones tribute that I'm playing with Billy Joe and, and CJ and Tim Armstrong. So that's, that's like so fun to jump into that right after two full albums.

• 11:29Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 11:29Speaker 01

  I had a lot of fun doing the, the, the two albums.

• 11:32Billy Corgan?

  Can you say who you worked with?

• 11:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, I just finished Alkaline Trio, it was from Chicago.

• 11:37Billy Corgan?

  Yeah, I just met the gentleman from the, from the band.

• 11:39Speaker 01

  They're, they're such great guys, so talented. And then, and then I just finished the second Yellow Card album that I've produced. And then some stuff for game, like a rapper.

• 11:52Speaker 01

  And yeah, and now I'm, I'm, I'm listening to the Ramones 24/7.

• 11:57Billy Corgan?

  Do you feel like you have strength as producer?

• 12:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, I love producing. I love arrangements. I love arrangements, I love tempos, I love

• 12:08Speaker 01

  keys, I, you know what I mean? I love, I love all of it. It's something that I'm really passionate about. I really enjoy doing.

• 12:14Billy Corgan?

  I mean, it's, it's a bit unfair way to put it, but I was surprised how good a producer you were. Because, you know, you just see, think he's the guy in the band, you know what I mean? And we'd met a couple of times and you were always very nice. So I didn't have a negative thought about you. But my general assumption was like, oh, he's producing? And then as soon as I heard your production, I was like, I got it right away.

• 12:30Speaker 01

  Oh, awesome, thank you. That means a lot.

• 12:32Billy Corgan?

  Yeah, no, I just think you're very talented. It's like, it's not something everyone can do. I don't think I could do it. You know what I mean?

• 12:40Speaker 01

  I'm sure you could do it because you, you, you have such a great, you know, history of amazing songs and albums.

• 12:47Billy Corgan?

  I have to really care.

• 12:49Speaker 01

  Yeah. Maybe, maybe it is, maybe it is like hard to, for some people to care about other people's projects or like be.

• 12:57Billy Corgan?

  But I feel like you're in it. Like I, I can hear the love that you have for the artists that you're working with. It's hard to explain how that translates to me sonically, but I get it right away.

• 13:06Speaker 01

  I kind of don't sign up for anything that I know I won't feel like it's my project. It's got to feel like my project.

• 13:13Billy Corgan?

  Whatever you're doing, I'm, I'm all about it.

• 13:15Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 13:17Billy Corgan?

  When, when you think of,

• 13:21Billy Corgan?

  it's a similar question to what I was asking you and you kind of said it had to do with skate culture. But, but at some point, you know, when you have like 50 different influences, at some point you have to kind of start putting them together. So when did you feel, first feel as a musician, you were putting the things you love together into a musical languaging?

• 13:41Speaker 01

  Well, I liked so many things and then I never had identity crisis to whatever project or whatever band I was working on, you know?

• 13:52Billy Corgan?

  Is it as an intuitive thing that you just kind of go with whatever you feel and that's?

• 13:56Speaker 01

  Well, some artists and some, some artists that I've worked with,

• 14:02Speaker 01

  instead of focusing in on who they are as an artist, they'll be like, I'm listening to this a lot right now. I want to sound like this. Whereas I never get confused like that. I'm like, oh, I love this and I love this project that just came out, but I'm not going to make it sound like my band. I'm not going to make my band sound like that, right? But I think, you know, growing up playing to whatever my sisters were listening to, like Janet Jackson or, or whatever it was at the time, Pet Shop Boys. And then playing to Beastie Boys records and Led Zeppelin records. And then being challenged by the kids in my neighborhood to learn Metallica records, that really helped me develop my sound.

• 14:45Billy Corgan?

  Yeah, sort of. But do you, do you feel, I, I definitely feel you have a musical identity, but do you have a way of expressing your musical identity?

• 14:55Speaker 01

  I do and I don't. I can go in and I can do a project. Like I did a project one time with a bunch of friends, mainly rap artists that I was working with. And I did all the production, but I could make that for, I can make a punk album. I could make a rebel country album. I can make a metal album because I love all those genres. So picking which one best suits me or helps me express myself is really difficult because I would make all of them.

• 15:24Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 15:24Speaker 01

  And no one wants to hear that, you know? I've like, I love Billy Corgan, but I'm like, would, would someone want to hear your country album? Your metal album, your punk album? I don't know, you know?

• 15:34Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 15:35Speaker 01

  That's like tough for me.

• 15:36Billy Corgan?

  That's my problem.

• 15:36Speaker 01

  Maybe you, they probably would want to hear it from you, but for me.

• 15:39Billy Corgan?

  Trust, not everybody wants to hear everything I'm going to say.

• 15:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, I, I, I don't, I don't know. It would get confusing to me as an artist, even if my favorite artist did it. I'd be like, but who are you?

• 15:50Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 15:50Speaker 01

  You know, like what is, like, what is your favorite?

• 15:53Billy Corgan?

  Well, I did it, speaking to you now, like an artist or producer, I did it to see if I could pull it off.

• 15:59Speaker 01

  You did?

• 16:00Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 16:00Speaker 01

  Another, another project or?

• 16:02Billy Corgan?

  Whatever, like when the, when the band would make hard turns musically.

• 16:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:06Billy Corgan?

  And it was interesting in that I played in a band that was totally supportive of that concept, which is really kind of suicidal. Like, oh, we just had a lot of success doing this. We're not going to do this anymore. We're going to do something completely different. They would be like, okay. And we would just go off in this other direction, try to bring in all these other influences. And I would, it was almost like a dare.

• 16:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:22Billy Corgan?

  Like, could we be a metal band? Could we be a psychedelic band? Could we be a country band?

• 16:27Speaker 01

  Yeah. It's so hard. I always think of like the Ramones, for example. I'd always want the Ramones to sound like the Ramones. I would be heartbroken if they came out with an album.

• 16:36Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 16:37Speaker 01

  That sounded like whatever's popular right now, you know, if they were still around. And like you like the Ramones because they're the Ramones, you know?

• 16:45Billy Corgan?

  Exactly.

• 16:46Speaker 01

  So I always, and it's hard to put yourself in that position as a person in a band. Because you also don't want to live in a box.

• 16:53Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 16:53Speaker 01

  But still want to like, you know, just be aware of your identity.

• 17:00Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 17:00Speaker 01

  You know?

• 17:02Billy Corgan?

  I saw where you started playing drums at four. That's really, that's young.

• 17:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, I started.

• 17:07Billy Corgan?

  Do you remember, I mean, I'm not, I mean, do you, do you, how can I put it? Do you remember consciously thinking, this is what I want to do? Or you're so young, it's just, it's, it's something else you're doing and it somehow becomes your thing?

• 17:18Speaker 01

  It's all I knew from the time I was four years old.

• 17:22Billy Corgan?

  Wow.

• 17:22Speaker 01

  I beat on pots and pans and then my, my parents saved up enough money to buy me like a toy drum kit. That was an animal drum kit. And I, I beat that thing to like a bloody pulp, like to where it didn't even, it wouldn't even work anymore. And then my dad found like a used Rogers drum kit in the paper and played on that. And it's, it's all I knew.

• 17:49Billy Corgan?

  That's so funny.

• 17:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:50Billy Corgan?

  Did you, so is it as simple as you knew quite young, that's what you wanted to do?

• 17:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, there, there used to be these books. I think my mom made it. And then in school they would have it too, where, where you'd say, I want to be this when I get older. And a lot of kids were saying, I want to be the Incredible Hulk when I get older. I want to be a policeman.

• 18:08Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 18:08Speaker 01

  Every one of mine was, I wanted to be a drummer. From the time I was enrolled in school, like kindergarten, till my junior and high school years, when the counselors would look at me

• 18:22Speaker 01

  just blank face, like what are you talking about? And I'd be like, I don't want to go to college, I just want to play drums. And they would, they would just be like, you're delusional. Like that's not going to happen. Like there's no way. So what do you want to do?

• 18:35Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 18:35Speaker 01

  And be like, that's all I want to do. You know?

• 18:39Billy Corgan?

  Well, yeah.

• 18:42Billy Corgan?

  I saw your mom pass when you were still young, into the late teens.

• 18:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, thirteen.

• 18:47Billy Corgan?

  Okay, I thought it was maybe a little long. That's, that's, that's, that's a rough one. Cause she was so supportive of you.

• 18:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, she was. I was, I was, you know, my dad worked at a steel mill and worked sixty hours a week. And I was, my mom, you know, I spent a lot of time with my mom. My dad and mom would take me, I learned how to write, read music when I was really young. Like learn jazz charts.

• 19:11Billy Corgan?

  Was that because of the support for the musical education side of it all? Or do you remember?

• 19:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think my mom and dad not, no one being musically inclined and just very blue collar.

• 19:22Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 19:23Speaker 01

  They, they were just like, oh, he needs to learn how to read music if he's gonna be a musician.

• 19:27Billy Corgan?

  That served you well.

• 19:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, I learned how to read music and then

• 19:33Speaker 01

  he was a jazz teacher, but he, you know, as far as learning Van Halen records or whatever I was listening to, he's like, that's not music. I'm not gonna teach you any of that. So I got what I needed from, from him.

• 19:46Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 19:46Speaker 01

  Learning how to read charts and stuff. And I just spent a lot of time in my bedroom playing music. But no, my mom was, and my dad were very supportive of me playing music. And it's actually like the last thing my mom said to me was

• 20:02Speaker 01

  like, please, please, please play your drums and just let it take you, you know, wherever, but don't give up.

• 20:09Billy Corgan?

  And um. That's amazing.

• 20:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, I just carried that with me and it was like, there was no way I was gonna fail her, you know?

• 20:16Billy Corgan?

  Did you, when you, when you, I'm not saying there was a moment, but is there, is there a spot where you're like?

• 20:23Billy Corgan?

  Did you have a conception of what it would be, mean to be a professional musician? Other than just, I wanna play the drums and I wanna be in a band? Is there a moment where that clicks in your brain or was there just a straight line into that, into that life?

• 20:36Speaker 01

  You mean, was there a moment where I figured it out, like I did it?

• 20:39Billy Corgan?

  No, it's like, um, it's like, um, you know, I went to high school and there were a bunch of guys playing the guitar. But you didn't get the sense they wanted to be professional musicians. My father was a professional musician, so I had a clear understanding of like, okay, if I'm gonna do this, this is kinda what it looks like.

• 20:54Speaker 01

  Hmm. Yeah, I had no idea what it looked like.

• 20:57Billy Corgan?

  Yeah, I kinda have a feeling like you, okay, I love to play the drums, but you didn't necessarily know what it meant to go into that world.

• 21:01Speaker 01

  And even my dream, I didn't know if it was attainable. It was just.

• 21:05Billy Corgan?

  What was the dream?

• 21:06Speaker 01

  The dream was, could I find a way where I could survive playing the drums?

• 21:13Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 21:14Speaker 01

  Where I'd have enough money to eat, somewhere to sleep and just survive.

• 21:19Billy Corgan?

  You know the famous joke, what do you, what do you call a drummer without a girlfriend?

• 21:23Speaker 01

  What?

• 21:23Billy Corgan?

  Homeless.

• 21:24Speaker 01

  Oh, that's so funny. Yeah. So my dreams were very, you know? And also from where I was from, I didn't have a lot of supportive people around me that were like, you can do it. Yeah, this is how you, you know, there was no, there was no answers. It seemed so far from

• 21:42Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 21:43Speaker 01

  reality, but

• 21:46Speaker 01

  there was no convincing me to not be relentless and try everything in my power, you know?

• 21:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was kinda like plan A. Plan B was making plan A work. There was no, there was no plan B.

• 22:01Billy Corgan?

  Yeah. Yeah, that conviction has always come across.

• 22:07Billy Corgan?

  I wrote down the word hyperactive, but it doesn't feel like it's the right word. I even wrote question mark. But it's like, it's hard to describe your drum style. You know what I mean? Cause you're, you're a great groove drummer, but there's a lot of energy in your, in between maybe?

• 22:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think

• 22:24Speaker 01

  maybe, uh, or at least from the style of music that I'm best known for playing. It is a lot of playing on top of the beat and being explosive and having.

• 22:34Billy Corgan?

  Is that maybe the rap influence on some level?

• 22:38Speaker 01

  I don't know. I mean.

• 22:39Billy Corgan?

  You know, cause, cause when I think of you, you big, big groove drummer, right? But a lot of groove drummers are just space. And you, there's a lot of like stuff going on.

• 22:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 22:50Billy Corgan?

  You know, and I don't, I don't, some guys, when they play like that, my musical thing is like, it's like a kind of a show off. With you, I'm like, no, this is his, his enthusiasm is like, this is his expression. Do you know what I mean?

• 23:02Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, thank you very much. That's really kind. I think I've always, I think it started with air drumming, all the stuff you would wanna air drum to. And then that led to me, as far as playing, like thinking and feeling parts and executing them.

• 23:22Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 23:23Speaker 01

  And always having this stamina and endurance as well as the skill to be able to play whatever I thought of.

• 23:33Speaker 01

  So that, that's what it was. And a lot of the times I'm, I think now I'm cautious of it and people are like, no, no, no, we want you to be you. Like stop, stop holding back. And I'm like, okay, you know, um, cause I am very conscious about, especially when I'm recording like the song and song first and whatever else. And there's some times where people say, I, I want it to sound like you. And I'm like, I really don't think it calls for it.

• 23:58Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 23:59Speaker 01

  But I will if you want me to.

• 24:00Billy Corgan?

  Recently, uh, I don't know if you heard it, but we, uh, Youngblood wanted us to re-record his song Zombie.

• 24:07Speaker 01

  Oh, I love that.

• 24:07Billy Corgan?

  Cause he basically said, you know, it's a pumpkin song in hiding. So can we do a version where you do, like basically do the pumpkins thing? So he came to Chicago to work and, and so we're working on the song and it's a good song and it's a good arrangement and all that. And he kept going like, you know how he is. Yeah, yeah, man, you know? And I kept saying, are you sure you want that thing? Cause it's, it's busy. There's a lot more going on in the way, what I do. And he was like, more, more, more, more. And I kept going, okay, okay. And then finally I reached the line where I saw his eyes kinda go like, you're gonna ruin my song.

• 24:39Speaker 01

  Oh, that's so funny. Was it a vocal performance that he was looking for or?

• 24:44Billy Corgan?

  It was more the busy guitar work. You know, this kinda classic, way too much going on with the pumpkins guitar work. And I kept saying, are you sure you want that? Yeah, yeah, man. Yeah, man. And then finally I just saw him give me this look and I was like, I tried to tell you.

• 24:58Speaker 01

  That's so funny. No, I mean, you guys were, uh, I actually dove in and I, I, uh, once I dropped off my family, I was like listening

• 25:09Speaker 01

  on my way here, just to like some of my favorite smashy pumpkin songs. And I think of like, I think of like Tonight Tonight and I think of like the drum parts, how unorthodox and how like.

• 25:21Billy Corgan?

  Crazy, right?

• 25:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was like, really was like risky, like to, to do, you know that, but it was so, it fit the song so great. And even the guitar tones and.

• 25:31Billy Corgan?

  Oh, thank you.

• 25:32Speaker 01

  And meanwhile, your, your vocals still sound so like, like beautiful and intimate. And I don't, I don't know. It's just like.

• 25:40Billy Corgan?

  It's a weird combination of things.

• 25:41Speaker 01

  And that's why you guys are so great. And those songs, those, those albums sound so great.

• 25:45Billy Corgan?

  Tonight, Tonight, we were very influenced by The Who.

• 25:49Billy Corgan?

  Jimmy, by and large, naturally was not a hyperactive drummer. And when we were doing Tonight Tonight, I kept saying, play like, more like Keith Moon. Like I want more of that.

• 25:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:00Billy Corgan?

  Insanity. And like, and it just seemed like the more he did, the more exciting it got. Like, so it breaks every pop rule in the world. I mean, it's so busy. It's like there's marching drums and we, in our, in our parlance, we called it orchestral, like, as if, almost as if you're playing with an orchestra. So the band version actually sounds kinda like a, like a sixties kinda power pop. But the entire time we're like, we're gonna put an orchestra over the top. But we did the version without knowing what the orchestra was gonna sound like.

• 26:28Speaker 01

  Whoa.

• 26:29Billy Corgan?

  So the, so if you just listen to the band version, it's kind of a cool power pop song.

• 26:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:33Billy Corgan?

  And then after that was all done, then we put the orchestra on.

• 26:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:36Billy Corgan?

  So even then, it's like, so he's basically playing an orchestra that wasn't there.

• 26:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:42Billy Corgan?

  It's all those swoops and swoop, you know, zheng. It's all, all, it was all in our heads.

• 26:46Speaker 01

  Yeah. Or the cadence, I think it goes through the whole chorus, right?

• 26:49Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 26:50Speaker 01

  Yeah. And the fact that that was on MTV, you know what I mean? That was like also.

• 26:54Billy Corgan?

  It's amazing we got away with it.

• 26:56Speaker 01

  It's also so cool because, I mean, that was like early nineties. And that's, you know, you guys were popular ten to fifteen years before I was ever successful or whatever.

• 27:07Billy Corgan?

  I was surprised because I, my memory was that you guys were, got big earlier than you did. It's like it was, you, your, your popularity was like late nineties, early two thousands.

• 27:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, ninety nine.

• 27:17Billy Corgan?

  That's that kinda four or five years where you guys seemed to go straight up. But in my mind, it was, you were earlier, but I was surprised it was in a different timeframe.

• 27:25Speaker 01

  No, I'm so thankful that there was stuff like that, that was

• 27:28Billy Corgan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 27:28Speaker 01

  influential and, um, and people playing instruments and bands and stuff. It's just so cool.

• 27:35Billy Corgan?

  Okay. So I'm gonna totally put you on the spot.

• 27:37Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 27:38Billy Corgan?

  And I'm not trying to do this in any weird way, but, but I, I feel I need to say this. And it's a bit weird to say it on camera, but I'm gonna put you on the spot.

• 27:46Billy Corgan?

  I've said this in, in, in rehearsal and I've said it to Jimmy Chamberlain, pumpkin drummer privately. I think you are probably the most influential drummer of the last thirty years.

• 27:54Speaker 01

  Oh, that's so kind. Like I, I don't even.

• 27:57Billy Corgan?

  And I mean that, when you, when I first heard you play, because again, back to your influences, I didn't understand it. Because I, you know, I grew up on the Ramones. And so I, I knew kinda like, let's call it the general influences. And you know, we were on, we were on K-Rock starting early nineties. So that kind of SoCal power pop that you guys are great at. Like that, even that wasn't that unusual. But when I heard you playing, I didn't understand where it was coming from. But now, obviously over time, I've, I've grown to love it. But also, when I look at what's followed, you have influenced more popular drummers in the last thirty years than any drummer I can think of, when we talk about rock alternative. Something about the way you played kind of unleashed this different way of playing,

• 28:43Billy Corgan?

  I guess, power pop or rock drums that comes directly from you. Because before you, people didn't play like that. And after you, almost everybody plays like you.

• 28:53Speaker 01

  Well, thank you. I'm speechless, like honored.

• 28:55Billy Corgan?

  Yeah, I'm sorry to put you on the, but I'm sorry to put you on the spot, but I, I really believe that.

• 28:59Speaker 01

  That means so much. Um, yeah, I mean, I don't even know what to say when, you know?

• 29:06Billy Corgan?

  Yeah, it's a compliment, you know, it's not, you don't have to say anything.

• 29:08Speaker 01

  I'm like honored and, um, yeah, it was just this weird

• 29:14Speaker 01

  kind of mixture of everything, like I said, that I was like raised on and that I listened to. And great drummers before me, I, I, I owe it to like Buddy Rich. And everyone from Buddy Rich to like the meters drummer was like a huge influence. Like Sissy Strut was like, I would sit at home and try to figure out these drum parts, you know? Even Tommy Lee, like seeing a drummer in the forefront of the band was, there were, there were so many things that I saw, like Jimmy Chamberlain, uh, Dennis Chambers. There was just so many great drummers. Animal from the Muppets was my biggest influence as a child, you know? So all these things, I think it just like, I saw a lot of drummers that.

• 29:56Speaker 01

  That we're having fun, that we're enjoying themselves. It didn't look like, you know? And I still appreciated some, you know, the other ones that were simple because at some point someone said to me like, "Your job is to keep time." You know what I mean? Like learn how to keep time, like learn how to play with a metronome.

• 30:14Billy Corgan?

  But I got this hi-hat over here.

• 30:16Speaker 01

  I know, I'm like, I have this hi-hat and all these toms.

• 30:19Billy Corgan?

  The hi-hat just waiting to be spoken with.

• 30:22Speaker 01

  Thankfully, I always had a small kit too. From the time I started gigging,

• 30:26Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 30:26Speaker 01

  I, I realized like a four-piece drum kit was going to be the extent of my drum kit because it's easy to lug around and I want to do the most on the least amount of drums.

• 30:38Billy Corgan?

  But you have, that's, that's, I think that's what I'm saying is something about the economy of your choices because of the, because of the last 25 years of, of the rise of pop music, rap music, a lot of people kind of cribbed like what you had figured out early 2000s. And they were like, "Oh, I'll take that." So that I think that's the greatest compliment because they, they, they basically sort of said, "Oh, he's already figured it out and I'm just going to drag it over here."

• 31:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:07Billy Corgan?

  So that's why I say you're the most influential drummer because there's, I, I mean, I can't tell you how many records I've heard over the last 25, 30 years where it's like, they literally are just doing their version of you. And of course, you're you, so you're not doing you, they're doing you.

• 31:21Speaker 01

  Well, thank you. That's the nicest compliment and especially coming from you like,

• 31:25Billy Corgan?

  Oh, thank you.

• 31:25Speaker 01

  Someone I've idolized.

• 31:26Billy Corgan?

  Thank you. Um, I met you and, and, and the Blink guys, we were playing like a radio show. I feel like it was Detroit, but it was somewhere like early 2000s. And you guys were definitely on that kind of whatever that is. And you know, when you're on it, it's kind of a crazy ride. Um, so we don't have to go over all that, but at least reflect on that period of your life because that only happens one time, if that makes any sense. Like that first time you're like, "Oh my God, this is working." And all these people are singing our songs and, and, and so many songs now are classics. That came out in that, and it was a very compressed period of time, right? It was, I know you guys have, you took a hiatus and stuff, but that, that's that first period, whatever it was, five, six, seven years.

• 32:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:10Billy Corgan?

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• 32:50Billy Corgan?

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• 33:06Speaker 01

  For sure. I mean, we were, I mean, we came from like the punk scene, opening for punk bands, uh, and Warped Tour, playing Warped Tour and stuff like that. I think we never took our band very seriously, you know?

• 33:20Billy Corgan?

  Well, that came across too.

• 33:21Speaker 01

  Yeah. And there was, I remember there was a guy, it's in my documentary. He's like, "You're gonna be more popular than you ever thought you were. You're gonna make more money than you ever thought you were. Um, so you better be ready." And we were like, "This guy is so high, like he does not know what he's talking about." Um, and then, yeah, I think it all happened so quickly and we were all sort of in disbelief because of, you know, where our band came from and how not serious we were. We were just having fun and we were, I mean, the music was serious. There were songs about suicide, there were songs about divorce. There was, you know, we touched on like, you know, as our band grew, like by the time I joined the band for Enema the State, we were, we were writing about a lot more things than what

• 34:05Speaker 01

  the band originally wrote about, but still having a lot of songs that were fun too. But I think we just never took ourselves that serious.

• 34:13Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 34:14Speaker 01

  Uh, so I think there was like not a bunch of pressure on us. Um, and we just couldn't believe it was happening. And I think they kept us so busy, we were playing two radio shows a day. You know how it was, it was insane.

• 34:31Billy Corgan?

  It was insane.

• 34:31Speaker 01

  Um.

• 34:32Billy Corgan?

  Especially when the music business started going down in the early 2000s. You didn't necessarily experience it then because you guys were still going up. But a lot of the business kind of went down because of illegal streaming. And so there's a lot of behind the scenes stuff where like suddenly radio stations were asking you to do weird stuff that they wouldn't have asked you five years before.

• 34:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:51Billy Corgan?

  There was just a lot of people kind of flailing around trying to figure out the new world of internet and so.

• 34:57Speaker 01

  Totally. Yeah. I think like bands like Green Day and, and Offspring and Rancid, all the bands that got popular right before us helped so much. And, and the community and the scene that we came from was so supportive. Um, and I think just excited to see anything that was inspired by, related to punk rock. And I felt like everyone was really supportive, you know?

• 35:22Billy Corgan?

  Yeah. Somebody who grew up in the, in the, in the early days of punk. And I was listening, like I had the Ramones albums when they were coming out in like, whatever, 78, like I was listening even as a little kid.

• 35:31Speaker 01

  Wow, as they were coming out.

• 35:32Billy Corgan?

  Oh, yeah, yeah. I'm, I'm old enough that I was there, but, but, but, but if you'd asked me, like Green Day, when we played Lollapalooza, when it was traveling in the nineties, 94, Green Day was like, they were the second stage baby band and like Longview had just kind of come out. If you had told me that not only was Green Day going to be a huge stadium band, if you had told me that like, let's call it SoCal or California Power Pop Punk, whatever that is, was going to be huge as it became, especially with you guys, I would have bet a lot of money against it because I'd already seen it be around for so many years and I, and I used to go see all the DOA and Seven Seconds and I saw all those bands and I thought it was a cool scene, but never in a million years did I think it would get popular.

• 36:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:18Billy Corgan?

  I, so.

• 36:19Speaker 01

  I mean, we would have said the same thing about our band too. Like there's no way this is going to get popular.

• 36:23Billy Corgan?

  That's what I was going to ask you. So that's what I'm saying. And I was, I'm not, I'm, I've never been the biggest punk guy. I always respected it, but it wasn't really my thing. You know, as you know, there are people like, you know, you know, The Clash, you know? It's like, I wasn't one of those The Clash guys.

• 36:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:36Billy Corgan?

  Loved The Clash. I mean, great band, but I wasn't like, "Oh my God." So, um, so

• 36:46Billy Corgan?

  in a time machine, I'm watching, I'm watching it grow and then do whatever it is. And Green Day obviously had success, but I thought, okay, they're just another kind of thing. When it got big and you guys seemed to like sort of break it open on this other level, it was kind of like, "Wow, what is this?" Now it seems obvious in, in hindsight. Great songs and really a lot of generation of fans that sort of grew up on the influences and like yourself, they were able to put the pieces together. Um,

• 37:11Billy Corgan?

  how do you, how do you view the, the institution of punk now as it's become, you know? Cause every scene kind of struggles at some point where it becomes mainstream.

• 37:20Speaker 01

  Yeah. I think it was

• 37:24Speaker 01

  a little tricky, like looking back or like zooming out for Blink, if you think of songs like All the Small Things or What's My Age Again?

• 37:33Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 37:34Speaker 01

  That got really, really popular.

• 37:36Billy Corgan?

  And I still hear them at baseball games.

• 37:38Speaker 01

  Yeah. They were like, they were almost like, uh, I say it to even bands that I work with, like you have a song or you put out a project and one song on the project actually exceeds past your genre and everyone hears it. And that's a beautiful thing.

• 37:55Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 37:55Speaker 01

  And they don't, they, they don't really know where it's from. You know, All the Small Things, I don't think people knew, "Oh, this is a band that was like a punk band that toured with, you know, a bunch of other punk bands." That, like, they don't know that, you know what I mean? And I, uh, I think that's so cool when that happens. Um, and I'm sure it happens in other genres too.

• 38:16Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 38:17Speaker 01

  You know, uh, but it's, um, I just like seeing anything. I, I root for like punk rock and I root for hardcore. I love, I love that people from that scene kind of like, don't so much think of the people on stage as, uh, you know, that they're doing something that's unattainable. A lot of people that go to punk shows and hardcore shows, they go, "That could be me."

• 38:42Billy Corgan?

  Well, that's the, that's, to me, that's, again, no disrespect to the music, but to me, that's punk's greatest legacy.

• 38:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:49Billy Corgan?

  Was breaking open the floodgates that anybody could be on stage.

• 38:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:53Billy Corgan?

  That is the most radical idea in the world. And that's, you know, that's one of the great legacies of the Ramones was people could say, "Well, I can do that."

• 39:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, totally.

• 39:02Billy Corgan?

  It's harder than it looks, but still it was like, "Oh, we can do that." Even the Sex Pistols were like, "We can do that." It started with the Ramones.

• 39:08Speaker 01

  Yeah. And there's something about it, the angst and the, just someone being able to like,

• 39:15Speaker 01

  think, "I, I can do that and I can express myself and I have something to say." I think it's so cool.

• 39:20Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 39:20Speaker 01

  Um, and then maybe you go on, you know, it's like, look at Radiohead's journey.

• 39:25Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 39:26Speaker 01

  You know, their first album was, was very, I mean, it was great, but it like.

• 39:31Billy Corgan?

  I just thought they were just another kind of alternative band doing kind of what everybody else was doing.

• 39:35Speaker 01

  Me too. I was like, "Oh, are they like a grunge band?" I didn't know what it was. And then it turned into this art project. So I'm like, if, who knows where you go from there, right?

• 39:44Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 39:44Speaker 01

  You just.

• 39:45Billy Corgan?

  When the, when the band took the hiatus, um, was there, I, I purposely didn't research this, so if it's, if it's a well-known thing, I'm sorry, but what was the, what was the sort of general vibe of like, why do we, why are we stopping?

• 39:59Speaker 01

  It's tricky. There really wasn't one thing. You couldn't, it's not like on, on paper or I could even tell you, sitting here with you, I think it was this one thing. It was just.

• 40:13Speaker 01

  Lots of touring, lots of working.

• 40:17Speaker 01

  We all had families. I had, you know, I met my oldest daughter when she was two and I raised her since she was two. I just had had Landon and Bama, my other two kids. We all wanted to be home with our kids or be traveling with our kids. So, but that was just, you know, that's just the, the challenge of touring, right?

• 40:39Billy Corgan?

  So it was more just a, it was, it was less of a band thing inside and more like, like, let's just kind of go this way a little bit?

• 40:45Speaker 01

  I thi- I think so. I think like me looking back, like my view of it was, I think,

• 40:52Speaker 01

  maybe some people wanted to like do their own side project and see if they could do it without the band. You know, that's what it kind of felt like to me. And at the time I was, I don't know, I, I was kind of like forced into a break when the band broke up or when Tom left the band. And that's when I started playing with DJ AM.

• 41:14Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 41:14Speaker 01

  And

• 41:17Speaker 01

  it was like playing with someone where I could play every genre of music I ever loved.

• 41:23Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 41:24Speaker 01

  So it was like my dream project, honestly.

• 41:26Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 41:27Speaker 01

  It would have never happened if I was still touring and doing this. You know what I mean? This, this crazy schedule.

• 41:35Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 41:35Speaker 01

  So it was, it was honestly, that break, the first time we broke up was, gave, gave light to one of the,

• 41:42Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 41:42Speaker 01

  my most favorite collaborations I've ever had in my life.

• 41:47Billy Corgan?

  I, I, I remember watching at the time, but I, you know, doing research, but the Meet the Barkers thing. I, I, I meant to ask you about that from the standpoint of like,

• 41:57Billy Corgan?

  were you cognizant of opening up your life, your family to the outside world? Like, was that part of the decision making? Cause you don't strike me, and I use this word as sort of half jokingly. I mean, there are those of us in our world that are fame whores. You've never struck me as a fame whore. You know what I mean?

• 42:13Speaker 01

  Like, yeah, it was a tru- it was, uh, when I look back on it, number one, I wasn't sober. I was far from sober. By that time I had, you know, I'd, I had not liked flying from the time I started flying.

• 42:30Speaker 01

  Developed an opiate addiction, you know? And then.

• 42:36Billy Corgan?

  Was this something that crept up on you kind of thing?

• 42:39Speaker 01

  It did. Yeah. Someone gave me a pill and said, hey, this will help with flying because they saw me white knuckling every time we'd fly. And then I never, but once I had kids, I never wanted to be away from them. I had, and I think it might've, it might've started from when I lost my mom at a really young age. And my mom was so great and my dad was so great. I wanted to give my children that same experience. I wanted to be the best father I could be. And it was really hard because like my dream from when I was a child, just to be even remotely successful being a musician.

• 43:19Speaker 01

  And then getting a chance to be as great of a parent as my mom and my dad were, all happened simultaneously. So I was, uh, it was tough, you know? So a lot of that, during that time, I was, I was struggling with all that. I was in a new relationship. I really didn't love being on a, you know, or having a reality show. It was also a crazy time because our whole house, we had about 70 cameras in our house. So it wasn't like there were people following you and you were always aware of cameras there.

• 43:55Billy Corgan?

  Your house was just wired up?

• 43:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, our house was just wired up.

• 43:59Billy Corgan?

  That's, that's.

• 44:00Speaker 01

  It was wild, but, uh, you know, I unapologetically was myself. And I didn't change anything for, for what was going on. And at the time, my friend, I'm sure you knew him too, Jesse Ignatovich, he did all like,

• 44:15Billy Corgan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 44:16Speaker 01

  The diary, the diary show on MTV.

• 44:18Billy Corgan?

  Followed us around on a tour once for about five months.

• 44:21Speaker 01

  He's so cool and he does all the MTV music award. It's still a dear friend of mine today. And it was with him. So it was, I was just so comfortable.

• 44:29Billy Corgan?

  I get it. Yeah.

• 44:29Speaker 01

  And when I look back, I don't regret anything because I have all this cool footage of me and my, my family. But no, I, I am more of a, a private person.

• 44:42Billy Corgan?

  That's kind of why it surprised me, you know?

• 44:44Speaker 01

  I really just like making music and playing drums and

• 44:48Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 44:49Speaker 01

  hanging out with my kids and running and boxing, you know?

• 44:51Billy Corgan?

  So the, so the documentary, I know it's not just about the plane crash. And, and it's like, how does one even talk about it without it sounding sort of clickbaity, right? So I guess, um, I'm not trying to jump around it because it was obviously a huge issue. So I guess where I would jump in on the, on the plane crash, um, which is 2008, if I'm.

• 45:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:18Billy Corgan?

  I kept, I, when I knew I was going to talk to you today, I kept, I kept thinking like, what's a way to talk about it without being lame? What's a way to talk about it without being maudlin, about being like, you know, like you're trying to peer into a place where you don't belong? And so the only thing I could think to ask was like,

• 45:35Billy Corgan?

  cause I, you're burned over 65% of your bodies and, you know? So traumatic, people died and, and you, it, your sobriety came later? Or did it come right away when you were in recovery?

• 45:52Speaker 01

  Sobriety came in the burn center.

• 45:54Billy Corgan?

  Okay.

• 45:55Speaker 01

  It, it sadly took my accident to bring me to be sober.

• 46:02Billy Corgan?

  Okay. So, um, so the, the image that kept coming to mind was like, cause you know, I guess, it's the most horrible thing to imagine, to experience such a traumatic thing. So I was like,

• 46:18Billy Corgan?

  but you know, you almost, I'm speaking for myself, but it's like, you try to almost put myself in your shoes. Like what would I do? What would I have done? What decisions would I have made? And the thing I kept thinking of for you was like, the first time you picked up a set of sticks.

• 46:31Billy Corgan?

  Does that make sense?

• 46:32Speaker 01

  What do you mean?

• 46:33Billy Corgan?

  Well, it's like, you know, we're musicians, our hands are everything.

• 46:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:39Billy Corgan?

  You know what I mean? Like our whole, we express ourselves literally through our hands and in my case, through my voice.

• 46:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:45Billy Corgan?

  And I just kept thinking of like everything you'd been through, this, this incredibly traumatic thing and then being burned, being in the burn center. The first time you're like, you're picking up a set of sticks to play drums. Like, I don't know, that's, does that strike anything in you?

• 47:01Speaker 01

  Like when I was four?

• 47:02Billy Corgan?

  No, no, no.

• 47:03Speaker 01

  Or after my accident?

• 47:04Billy Corgan?

  After the accident, sorry. I'm not being clear.

• 47:06Speaker 01

  I mean, so, yeah, sorry. I was so confused.

• 47:08Billy Corgan?

  Yeah, I know. I, I, I'm a little bit of an arty weirdo, but.

• 47:11Speaker 01

  No, I love that.

• 47:12Billy Corgan?

  Well, thank you.

• 47:13Speaker 01

  I mean, what you said, you're, you're spot on because, um, so you know, you, you have like, I, I'm, I start playing drums when I'm four. I play every day. We didn't really get into it, but my, my parents were very disciplined with me. I had to play two to three hours a day or I couldn't go outside and go skateboarding or ride BMX bikes or do anything.

• 47:33Billy Corgan?

  That's wild.

• 47:34Speaker 01

  Yeah. So, um, my, my dad was also, you know, uh, in the military, very militant with stuff like that.

• 47:41Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 47:41Speaker 01

  You know, very disciplined. Um, thank God. And then when my mom died when I was 13, what did I do? I became obsessed with my drums even more than I was before.

• 47:52Billy Corgan?

  I can imagine.

• 47:53Speaker 01

  And, um, it was also this,

• 47:57Speaker 01

  the only thing I was probably confident at and I, and I knew I was somewhat good at it. You know, and it made me feel good.

• 48:08Speaker 01

  So.

• 48:08Billy Corgan?

  Yes, that's, that's, sorry. That's what I was after is like, I try to imagine what you're going through. Like you almost lost your life, people lost their lives.

• 48:20Billy Corgan?

  It obviously fucked up your friend, like, and then you gotta, somehow you gotta find the strength, not only to recover and heal, but you gotta pick up back the thing that is your thing, like.

• 48:30Speaker 01

  Yeah. It was the first thing.

• 48:32Billy Corgan?

  Identity, your voice is like, and for you, it's holding those sticks.

• 48:36Speaker 01

  Yeah. It was the first thing I did when I got out of the burn center.

• 48:39Billy Corgan?

  Really?

• 48:39Speaker 01

  Yeah. The first thing. I actually was in the burn center for about four to six months, 30 surgeries. I actually didn't tell, uh, Dr. Grossman, who was my burn doctor. Cause you know, during that, during that, that six month, you know, period, there was, first when I got there, it was, you know, we don't know if you're going to make it, you know? Blood transfusion after blood transfusion, uh, we might have to amputate your foot.

• 49:06Billy Corgan?

  Was this, was this from infection and?

• 49:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, just from infection, you know, when you have your, your, your body's basically an open sore, an open wound, you know? 65% of your body.

• 49:19Speaker 01

  So, yeah, there was a lot of like what ifs when I was in the, in the hospital and I, I wasn't sure. And he was a straight shooter. He's like, I can't, I don't know. I don't know if you're going to play drums again. So no one knew, but both of my, my hands were numb. But I didn't want to say anything because I just wanted out of the hospital. So I didn't tell Dr. Grossman and then turned out I had a bunch of nerve damage. But I just couldn't wait to get home and they would push me outside and I would play on a practice pad. My hands were still scabbed, my burns weren't even completely healed yet. And it was, it was, that was, I finally felt connected to something.

• 50:02Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 50:02Speaker 01

  Cause I didn't, I didn't have anything. And, and there was a lot of talks when I was in the hospital with my post-traumatic doctor. He would say, you know, you don't, you don't have to play drums anymore. You don't have to tour anymore. You don't, you don't have to leave the house if you don't want to. Like, don't pressure yourself, you know?

• 50:20Speaker 01

  So I think that gave me some peace that I never had. Because I think I always thought I did need to do that, but it's also what I loved and it's the only thing I knew. And it just proved, when I got out of the hospital and I got home, that is all I want to do. So I want to be with my kids and I want to play drums, you know? It was never, it was never something that felt like work to me. Like drumming and music always was, you know, it was, it was like that saying, like find something you love and figure out a way to get paid for it. Like that was drumming for me.

• 50:49Billy Corgan?

  I was very touched to read that, um, and I mean, maybe this is a little bit too like a, like a TV movie, but I was touched to read that your, your guys would come and visit you in the hospital.

• 50:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:59Billy Corgan?

  Your band guys.

• 51:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, like Skinhead Rob, who was in the transplants with me, with, with Tim Armstrong. He was, he was there every day with me. All my, my best friends were with me, like Mark would come visit me a lot. It was, it was special, um, especially because.

• 51:16Speaker 01

  I didn't get visitors for a long time when I was in there because I was so just prone to infection. When, when people would come by and just stay the night, you know, and have someone to talk to. I got, I got really close to my dad after that and he would tell me stories from Vietnam. And I don't think I ever had those conversations with him before. So it was, yeah, I felt like I had a lot of growth.

• 51:38Billy Corgan?

  I did see a little bit from the doc poking around.

• 51:43Billy Corgan?

  There's that beautiful scene where your, your dad talks about getting a tattoo. You guys call each other pal or.

• 51:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:51Billy Corgan?

  And you got a pal tattoo, just the same script in the same spot that you have it. I was like, that was like, as a dad, I was like, wow, it's pretty cool.

• 51:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, by the same tattoo artist. Yeah, it was pretty cool because my dad.

• 52:04Speaker 01

  I think growing up, he just thought I was gonna, he was so worried about me being like a complete up or loser, you know? So I think he was really.

• 52:13Billy Corgan?

  Drums, drummers don't have a great, drummers don't have a great reputation. Let's face it.

• 52:17Speaker 01

  I know. I think he used to get worried. He would come home on his Harley every day and I'd be in the garage playing drums and he'd just be like,

• 52:25Speaker 01

  the neighbors hate us, like, you know what I mean? The cops keep coming. So, yeah, and, and, uh, at an early age too, he said, these tattoos, you're never gonna get a job. You're never gonna be able to get a job. And of course, a light bulb went off in my head. I'm like, I'm never gonna get a job. This is the best thing ever. I'm gonna get more tattoos because then I have to play drums. So I really, really just, you know, positioned myself. This is all I could do.

• 52:52Billy Corgan?

  Yeah. I meant to ask you because I'm out here part-time with my kids and

• 53:02Billy Corgan?

  raising kids out here in the celebrity bubble. I'm not, I know it's not that simple and I'm not trying to ask for personal details. It's not the question I'm after. I'm saying, do you struggle at times with being out here in this world? I know it's the world you grew up in too. So it's not, it's not like, if I live out here, because like I'm from Chicago. But growing up here, this is your home. I mean, this area is your home. But do you, do you, do you wrestle at times with the celeb bubble with the kids and?

• 53:28Speaker 01

  I do.

• 53:29Billy Corgan?

  And the, and the culture of, you know, because, you know,

• 53:33Billy Corgan?

  technically speaking, although it's not a fair thing, my wife is a, is a nepo baby. Her dad's a very famous fashion designer and she works in the fashion business. So even times when people throw around the nepo baby thing, you know, people tend to look at the kids of famous people and make assumptions. You know, I'm sure you get that. Oh, is your kid gonna play music or?

• 53:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:53Speaker 01

  You know, I didn't have that experience. Like where, where I grew up, there was, there wasn't a lot of options or ways out.

• 54:02Speaker 01

  And I grew up very humble. Like we didn't have running hot water, you know, when I was a kid and we, we.

• 54:08Billy Corgan?

  Was it just poverty or?

• 54:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, just, you know, like lower working class, you know, my pops was doing the best he could and we didn't. My, we didn't have anything my kids have, you know, nowadays. So I do, I do struggle.

• 54:22Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 54:23Speaker 01

  You know, someone I was in the studio with the other day was like, you know, we were saying like, how, exactly how you just described it, like, you know, they're, they are growing up in LA and all these things and they have more opportunities and obviously I'm, you know, I'm able to, to do more than my parents were able to do, but he's like, life's gonna kick them in the balls, like straight up, whether you help them or you don't. So like help them as much as you can, you know? Cause life's, life is hard. So I don't really, I try not to look at it like, you know, like I don't wanna, I don't wanna give them anything that's unrealistic.

• 55:01Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 55:02Speaker 01

  But when he said that, I was like, yeah, life is gonna kick their ass regardless. So any, any way I can help them, I want to, as long as it's, you know, but I also wanna teach them the lessons and I always, I always talk to them. I'm, I'm always tell my son and, you know, he's really into music and I say, you know,

• 55:21Speaker 01

  I obviously practiced a lot and I had some talent, but it was the hard work that really, really, really made a difference. Cause you gotta work hard. You gotta, you gotta be obsessed with something. You gotta be, you gotta eat, sleep and breathe it if, if you, if you wanna be successful and be great at it, you know?

• 55:42Billy Corgan?

  Yeah, my son's 10 and, you know, like I said, people ask you, oh, you know, your kid gonna play music? And I, I always say, I just want him to be happy and whatever he does, I want him to do it full on.

• 55:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:54Billy Corgan?

  So he's like really into video games and he, he talks about being a video game designer. And I was like, okay, you're gonna have to go to school and, you know, we have that same conversation because I'm like, you don't wanna cheat. You don't wanna, you're not gonna get what you think by cheating to the front of the line, you know?

• 56:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, and you won't.

• 56:11Billy Corgan?

  It's not yours.

• 56:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. And you wanna be great at it, you know? I feel weird if someone gave me some shortcut to get where I'm at and then I get here and I'm like, not what people think, you know?

• 56:21Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 56:23Billy Corgan?

  This is an unfair question, but I think you've had such an interesting life.

• 56:28Billy Corgan?

  Do you feel you've found happiness?

• 56:31Speaker 01

  Yes, I think for, for a long time, it's, it's roughly been about, I think it's 18 years. You know, there was a long time I didn't, I didn't fly. And I think I, I convinced myself that I was happy. I was sober. I, I, I learned how to better deal with survivor's guilt.

• 56:55Billy Corgan?

  Can you, can you? Because I think that's an important distinction because, because as you know, a lot of people go through survivor's guilt and it's not always necessarily off of something as traumatic as a plane crash. A lot of people, so I think you can speak to that because you faced it head on. Do you talk about that a bit?

• 57:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, I mean, in the situation I was in where, where I was, turned out to be the only survivor from this accident, you know? And just beating myself up for years, you know, why, why I made it and my, my two best friends that were in the plane with me didn't make it and the two pilots didn't make it. And then, AM, Adam Goldstein, who was my inspiration and motivation to be sober one day,

• 57:44Speaker 01

  to have him, you know, die of a drug overdose, I, I really, I was, I was grieving and I was, I was just, I was, I was lost for a long time, you know?

• 57:58Billy Corgan?

  Sorry, because I didn't know him, but I, I had a lot of friends who knew him and he was really loved. He was one of those guys, like everybody talked about, like, he had a halo around him whenever anybody talked about him.

• 58:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 58:11Billy Corgan?

  And that's rare, you know, everybody talks in this town.

• 58:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, for sure.

• 58:14Billy Corgan?

  He was one of those cats. It's like, everybody was like, oh, he's the best.

• 58:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, he was the best, like the best friend. One of the best DJs arguably to ever have lived or done it, you know, it was like, yeah, all that stuff was really rough. And then, yeah, I just, I mean, I owe a lot to my, my post-traumatic doctor who would just, you know, say you're here for a reason, you know, you gotta trust God, you gotta have faith. And then, I think me making,

• 58:44Speaker 01

  just like making peace with myself and I'm really close to,

• 58:49Speaker 01

  you know, both of my friends' moms who passed away and I stay in contact with them. I talk to them every Mother's Day, every anniversary of my accident. My assistant Chris, who passed away in the crash, like his son is my godson, just like, like,

• 59:10Speaker 01

  paying my dues like with them, you know what I mean? And like showing up and, and, and loving them just the way I think they would if the roles were reversed, you know? I think it was really big for me and, um, yeah, and just also like flying again opened like a, a big, big piece of my life that I, I couldn't imagine if I went the rest of my life with like letting this thing that happened to me.

• 59:38Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 59:38Speaker 01

  Like,

• 59:41Speaker 01

  restrict me from living the rest of my life like I should, you know? That was, that was a big battle. It was like this giant monster. I would, I would like, yeah, I would see every day and it was like, it was, it was always coming up because someone would say, we have an offer for Blink to go play here. We have an offer for UNAM to go play here and I couldn't, my hands were tied. It bugged me so bad. And I think, you know, the same person that quit doing drugs and battled addiction, my eyes were set on flying and, and beating that monster, you know? So, yeah, that was, that was, that was huge for me.

• 1:00:21Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:23Billy Corgan?

  Um, in making a documentary, I mean, does it, does it bring you some sense of peace? Or a sense of completion of something?

• 1:00:35Speaker 01

  It did, you know, it almost didn't come out in 2017 because I hadn't beaten that monster. And I was, I was sort of at this place where I was, my story was told and I was in this plane crash and I was sober. But the truth was I, I was still struggling with survival skills. I would never get on a plane. There was all these things that had power over me. So now that it's out and it's in, you know, out in the world and, you know, back then in 2017, the producers that were making the documentary were like, can we just have you look at a plane?

• 1:01:10Billy Corgan?

  Oh geez.

• 1:01:11Speaker 01

  And I was like, I can't even look at a plane. Billy, I wouldn't have even come here because it's too close to the airport. And I could smell jet fuel at one time, you know, cause I was, I was in a hospital burping up jet fuel. Cause I was, it was, it was in my body.

• 1:01:27Billy Corgan?

  Oh my God.

• 1:01:27Speaker 01

  And I would, I was just, I was so hypersensitive to all that stuff. So um, to have it come out now and

• 1:01:37Speaker 01

  I watched it 10 times before it came out and I was like, wow, it really, it really completes my story and um, I couldn't think of how a film could better speak for me than that documentary. And then

• 1:01:53Speaker 01

  once it was out, having people reach out and just, you know how like your podcasts, your albums, your tours? You know how like someone could find something wrong with everything? They're like, Billy, I don't, that album is like, that's not, it's not a great album. Or, or we don't like your pod, or I don't like your shoes, whatever.

• 1:02:10Billy Corgan?

  Story of my life.

• 1:02:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, like they don't, they don't like something. They can find, you could save like a million puppies from, you know what I mean? Yeah. And they'll find something wrong with what you did. And the world's so, the world's got so much hate and everyone has a voice, you know, with social media and my documentary has been nothing but an outpour of love.

• 1:02:28Billy Corgan?

  Wow.

• 1:02:29Speaker 01

  You know, which is, it's rare in this day of age, whether it's people going, I reconnected with my dad or I watched your documentary and

• 1:02:39Speaker 01

  I'm going into rehab tomorrow, or I woke up my two-year-old son to hug him. Like that's like, I could, nothing's more rewarding.

• 1:02:50Billy Corgan?

  I saw in your, in your, in your marriage, um, that you guys were friends for many years. And the thing I thought to ask about it is, you know, is it, is it on some level because you knew each other? Is it one of those things where it's like, there's things that, A, you got to know each other as people before romance, but also is it one of those things that you both have had such interesting experiences that there's only so many people on this planet that even understand where you guys sort of live mentally and emotionally on a daily level?

• 1:03:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think both. I think,

• 1:03:27Speaker 01

  yeah, it was a, it was someone that was always in my, like a friend that I always thought about.

• 1:03:35Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:35Speaker 01

  I was like, oh my gosh. But I was, at that time of my life, I was in the studio 18 to 20 hours a day. I got all the love in my, in the world from my kids and joy from my kids. And I

• 1:03:49Speaker 01

  was obsessed with music, like I've always been and work at that time. It was just, there was.

• 1:03:54Billy Corgan?

  Was that also a way of processing grief and trauma and just to keep moving?

• 1:03:58Speaker 01

  I think so. And I'm like, I don't, I don't idol well. Like I like, I like getting into stuff, you know?

• 1:04:05Billy Corgan?

  Again, that's a drummer thing.

• 1:04:07Speaker 01

  So yeah, when that happened and, and it was, it was, it was like symmetry, perfect symmetry from both of our, our, our sides. Her friends would be like, oh, you and Trav? And, and she would just be like, ah, yeah, I don't know if that'll ever happen, whatever. And people would say the same thing to me. We both wanted it to happen and we knew if it did happen, it would probably be like neither of us would have a choice. We would just be overwhelmed with whatever, you know, and

• 1:04:34Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:34Speaker 01

  fall madly in love. And, and we did, it was just, and I'll be honest, I didn't have a lot of friendships for years and years before entering into a relationship with someone. So it had such a strong foundation.

• 1:04:50Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:51Speaker 01

  I already loved her as a friend, you know?

• 1:04:53Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:54Speaker 01

  And I can't say I had that much before her.

• 1:04:57Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:57Speaker 01

  You know, she was, yeah, she was, I, I loved her for years.

• 1:05:04Billy Corgan?

  I saw this, this kind of just a different direction. Vans collab, which I think is pretty cool. I mean, if you're talking punk

• 1:05:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:05:11Billy Corgan?

  world, collaborating with Vans. I mean, I gotta give you a, that's pretty cool.

• 1:05:15Speaker 01

  It was honestly a big, it's like a big, the, one of the coolest things to ever happen to me, you know? It's the first, it's the first shoe I ever wore where I grew up in Fontana, there was a van store and I don't know, I don't know how it was in Chicago, but like you could go to a van store and design your vans and then they would ship them in six weeks.

• 1:05:36Billy Corgan?

  I don't think it was like that back in the day.

• 1:05:37Speaker 01

  It was so cool. You could design, like pick something for the side, like what color each pattern was, you know?

• 1:05:44Speaker 01

  So when it came up and I, and I, and I got an opportunity to work with Vans, it was, it was such like bucket list, like child dream.

• 1:05:53Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:53Speaker 01

  I grew up skateboarding in vans. I was already wearing them. I used to have a, I used to have a deal with DC when Blink first started and they were like skate shoes and I used to get in trouble for wearing vans. Be like, if we see you wear vans one more time, we're deadening all of your, our deals with you. So yeah, it couldn't be a better, cooler relationship.

• 1:06:12Billy Corgan?

  Couple more things. Um, vegan.

• 1:06:15Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:06:16Billy Corgan?

  I'm a vegan too.

• 1:06:17Speaker 01

  Are you? Awesome.

• 1:06:18Billy Corgan?

  And you know, I have a vegan cafe.

• 1:06:20Speaker 01

  I didn't. Where's it at?

• 1:06:21Billy Corgan?

  Uh, north of Chicago.

• 1:06:22Speaker 01

  Oh, I'm going.

• 1:06:23Billy Corgan?

  It's called Madame Zuzu's. So if you're ever in Chicago, you're always welcome. We'd love to tab you up there.

• 1:06:27Speaker 01

  Oh, I'm there.

• 1:06:27Billy Corgan?

  But I saw a clip of you bragging, saying you make the best matcha.

• 1:06:31Speaker 01

  I do. I love matcha and I love making.

• 1:06:33Billy Corgan?

  You know, matcha is the new in tea world, cause I own a tea house. It's the, that's the newest thing. That's, that's the new coffee.

• 1:06:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:06:41Billy Corgan?

  Everything is like literally coffee sales are going down and everyone's running towards matcha.

• 1:06:44Speaker 01

  I love it. I'm still, I still drink coffee, but uh, I only have it in the morning and then I go to matcha.

• 1:06:50Billy Corgan?

  So my wife's new baller move is she's got a drink there at our shop. Uh, she calls the cloud and it's coconut water and matcha. Am I gonna try that one?

• 1:07:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:07:00Billy Corgan?

  And then we also make a creamsicle matcha.

• 1:07:03Speaker 01

  That sounds delicious.

• 1:07:05Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:05Speaker 01

  My daughter just told me, um, we have a, we have a coffee place in Calabasas.

• 1:07:10Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:10Speaker 01

  And she was like, she actually just pitched it to me that she was making a matcha with coconut water there.

• 1:07:16Billy Corgan?

  It's the new thing.

• 1:07:17Speaker 01

  So I, I tend to like my matcha, no sweetener.

• 1:07:20Billy Corgan?

  Oh, you're.

• 1:07:21Speaker 01

  Extra matcha.

• 1:07:22Billy Corgan?

  OG.

• 1:07:23Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I, I just like, I like, I like it like bold, like strong, you know?

• 1:07:27Billy Corgan?

  Yeah. Have you had like the hardcore matches in Japan? Have you ever gone down that road?

• 1:07:31Speaker 01

  I haven't been to Japan in a minute. I keep trying to talk my band into going.

• 1:07:34Billy Corgan?

  If you go, you can go these like OG kind of tea houses that have like the, the super, super grade matcha.

• 1:07:42Speaker 01

  Yeah. Oh, I can't wait.

• 1:07:43Billy Corgan?

  And they, have you ever seen where they do the thing where it's like, it's like shaved ice and matcha? Have you seen that?

• 1:07:48Speaker 01

  Delicious. No, it's, I want that though.

• 1:07:51Billy Corgan?

  Yeah. So it's like, imagine you taste the shaved ice and then you put matcha over it and then you eat it like that.

• 1:07:56Speaker 01

  Wow. Wait, so they have something similar to that? I remember at Matahisa.

• 1:08:01Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:01Speaker 01

  You can get shaved ice, but I think they'd call it, it's a green tea syrup that they put on it.

• 1:08:06Billy Corgan?

  Yeah. This is the hardcore.

• 1:08:07Speaker 01

  Whoa.

• 1:08:08Billy Corgan?

  Like only in Japan.

• 1:08:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:08:10Billy Corgan?

  I'm sure somewhere here they have it because there's such a big Asian population.

• 1:08:13Speaker 01

  The other day I was in San Diego and um, I was, I, I just got to the city and I was like, I'm looking at matcha spots. And I actually went to a spot that doesn't serve matcha lattes. They just had a huge retail space as big as this room with matcha. But you couldn't drink any, like there wasn't any to drink. Yeah, you only bought. And I'm like, this is pretty serious, you know? And they're like, oh no, we don't make matcha lattes or any matcha. You can buy it here.

• 1:08:40Billy Corgan?

  Okay. Two more things. Thanks for indulging me. Um, one, I had to kind of laugh because I never thought about it because I was looking up, you know, your kids and, and you guys have your own kind of Brady Bunch thing going on.

• 1:08:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, we have seven kids together. Yeah.

• 1:08:56Billy Corgan?

  That's pretty amazing.

• 1:08:57Speaker 01

  Yeah. Starting at two and a half and my oldest is 27. It's insane. If they all have a friend over, we have 14 kids in the house. I mean, if you just do the math, so it happens more than you think.

• 1:09:09Billy Corgan?

  Yeah. Is it, is it, um, is it challenging to have a, a, a family where you have all these kids coming from different directions? Is that, have you, has, I'm not trying to be personal about it. I'm just curious. Cause it's like, it seems like, is that with the whole Brady Bunch premise? Did you watch the Brady Bunch as a kid?

• 1:09:25Speaker 01

  Yeah. Sometimes age, the ages will, will be confusing because like my kids are older and they'll have friends over. The younger kids are trying to sleep, you know, stuff like that. Pretty, but pretty, I mean, not like any serious problems thankfully, you know? And kids, I always say like, I, I feel for my friends that are older, that don't have kids, like kids make me feel

• 1:09:52Billy Corgan?

  That's the best.

• 1:09:53Speaker 01

  so young. They make me feel invincible. They make me feel young again. They make me feel like I have superpowers, you know?

• 1:10:00Billy Corgan?

  Yeah. Yeah. My kids are 10, 10, seven and a baby.

• 1:10:04Speaker 01

  Oh, amazing.

• 1:10:05Billy Corgan?

  And um, you know, the band's doing well and my music life's doing well. And I, there's no way it would be happening without my kids. My kids kind of put some kind of pep back in my step.

• 1:10:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, they give us extra energy.

• 1:10:17Billy Corgan?

  It's a reason to fight for good things and.

• 1:10:18Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 1:10:19Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:19Speaker 01

  Yeah. They give us superpowers and there's nothing like waking up and going to sleep with them.

• 1:10:24Billy Corgan?

  Okay. So this is a bit Gothic, but as somebody who's literally stared down the, the greatest fears and fears in life and, and been through great success and tragedy and I'm curious, list, list your priorities.

• 1:10:40Speaker 01

  What do you mean?

• 1:10:41Billy Corgan?

  Like when you wake up, like what's your number one priority?

• 1:10:45Speaker 01

  For example, what do you mean like?

• 1:10:47Billy Corgan?

  Family, music, matcha.

• 1:10:50Speaker 01

  Oh, family, family comes before anything.

• 1:10:53Billy Corgan?

  I was asking a loaded question with, I kind of thought I knew the answer.

• 1:10:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, family over everything.

• 1:10:58Billy Corgan?

  It seems like fam, I just my sense, and I don't know you very well, but my sense is like, family is the thing that everything comes from.

• 1:11:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, I couldn't be great in the studio or great at running or drumming or anything without them. If I was just

• 1:11:14Speaker 01

  Travis Barker in this world without my family, that's a, that's a sad world, you know? Like, I'm sure I wouldn't know anything else, but like, I feel so enriched and I feel just an abundance of love and inspiration from my family.

• 1:11:29Billy Corgan?

  So I like what you're saying is, and I'm 59, so I had kids later in life, but

• 1:11:37Billy Corgan?

  people ask me like, oh, what's it like to have kids later in life? And I said, it made all the music make sense to me.

• 1:11:43Speaker 01

  Hmm, yeah.

• 1:11:44Billy Corgan?

  Cause I did all this amazing stuff, but I never felt it the way I feel it now with the family.

• 1:11:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:11:51Billy Corgan?

  So for people, I would just say it, maybe I'm, I'm not trying to speak for you, but I'm saying is we're living examples of like, we had all that other stuff.

• 1:11:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:11:59Billy Corgan?

  And we've had all that other stuff. But without family, it's like it somehow it makes the glue on everything.

• 1:12:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, imagine having all of that and not being able to share it with anyone.

• 1:12:09Billy Corgan?

  But that's why, that's why I go back to watching your beautiful wife and your kid on the side of the stage at the Ozzy Show. I got teared up because I understood what was happening.

• 1:12:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:12:19Billy Corgan?

  You know what I mean?

• 1:12:19Speaker 01

  Been like that on tour when my family's not out with me and I see it and I'm like, oh.

• 1:12:23Billy Corgan?

  Right?

• 1:12:24Speaker 01

  Like, yeah, that's, there's no better feeling.

• 1:12:27Billy Corgan?

  God bless. Thank you for being here today.

• 1:12:28Speaker 01

  Bless you. Thank you.

• 1:12:35Speaker 03

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