Pod Insights The Louis Theroux Podcast S7 EP7: Simone Ashley on kissing scenes with Jonathan Bailey, getting kicked out of drama school, and Bridgerton criticism About this episode In this episode, Louis speaks with Bridgerton star Simone Ashley. Simone tells Louis about filming kissing scenes with Jonathan Bailey, getting kicked out of drama school, and how she responds to criticism about the show.
Warnings: Strong language and adult themes.
Links/Attachments:
The Devil Wears Prada 2 (2026)
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt33612209/
TV Show: ‘The Bear’ (2022-2026) - Hulu
https://tv.apple.com/gb/show/the-bear/umc.cmc.javg04xbn3eonbgfvnaqmodk
Kill Bill: Vol.1 (2003)
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0266697/
The Sound of Music (1965)
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0059742/
Guys and Dolls (1955)
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0048140/
Mary Poppins (1964)
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0058331/
West Side Story (1961)
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0055614/
Evita (1996)
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0116250/
Song: ‘Edelweiss’ by Richard Rogers & sung by Julie Andrews (1965)
https://open.spotify.com/track/4S4Qn8O0ygeqdQLF6tfxWp
TV Show: ‘Bridgerton’ (2020 – present) - Netflix
https://www.netflix.com/watch/81044686?source=35
TV Show: ‘Sex Education’ (2019 – 2023) - Netflix
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7767422/
Shakespeare in Love (1998)
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0138097/
Interstellar (2014)
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0816692/
Ocean’s Eleven (2001)
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0240772/
Credits:
Producer: Millie Chu
Researchers: Maan al-Yasiri and Elly Young
Production Manager: Francesca Bassett
Music: Miguel D’Oliveira
Audio Mixer: Tom Guest
Video Mixer: Scott Edwards
Shownotes compiled by Elly Young
Executive Producer: Arron Fellows
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Transcript 0:04 Speaker 00 Hello and welcome to the final episode of this series of the Louis Theroux podcast.
0:19 Speaker 00 Today, I'm joined by actress and Bridgerton superstar Simone Ashley. Bridgerton is, of course, the Netflix mega hit, the fourth season of which came out earlier this year, in which Simone plays Kate Sharma, the sharp-witted older sister of the diamond of the season. That will mean something to Bridgerton fans.
0:38 Speaker 00 Her love interest, Anthony Bridgerton, is played by Jonathan Bailey, Johnny to his friends. We talk about that in the chat. And for me, this was an opportunity not just to talk to a talented young actress, but also to dig deep into a series that, to be honest with you, I'd never seen before. I'd seen little glimpses and was always a little baffled, as a historian, if I may, by what seemed to be certain liberties it had taken with the historical record.
1:08 Speaker 00 It's a kind of multiracial take on aristocratic England of the early 18th century.
1:16 Speaker 00 We talk about that. It's kind of politically controversial in some ways, and in other ways, I think people love it for not not being overly preoccupied with those themes. Simone's first big break was a recurring role in another of Netflix's big success stories, sex education. We don't talk about that. Sorry, there wasn't time. Since Bridgerton, she starred in Disney's live-action adaptation of The Little Mermaid and the romantic comedy Picture This. We recorded this conversation in March this year at Spotify HQ. 2026 is due to be a big year for Simone. She released her debut EP Songs I Wrote in New York last week and has started filming an A24 comedy film called
2:00 Speaker 00 Peaked, directed by Molly Gordon, who's an actoress. Actoress is my new word. It covers all the bases. From TV kitchen drama series The Bear, she will also star as Miranda Priestly's new assistant in The Devil Wears Prada 2. That's Meryl Streep.
2:19 Speaker 00 Which is in cinemas from the 1st of May. A quick warning, this conversation contains some strong language and adult themes. All that, coming up after this.
2:46 Speaker 00 How's life?
2:47 Speaker 01 Life's good, yeah.
2:48 Speaker 00 Good?
2:48 Speaker 01 Good. Busy, but...
2:49 Speaker 00 Busy. You okay to talk about Bridgerton for a second?
2:53 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah.
2:55 Speaker 00 In case you didn't know, it's one of the biggest hits in the history of Netflix. Apparently, the three of the seasons rank in the top 10 most streamed shows on Netflix.
3:07 Speaker 01 Wow.
3:08 Speaker 00 I watched it for the first time in preparation for this interview.
3:12 Speaker 01 Oh, wow. Did you watch the whole second season?
3:15 Speaker 00 Yes.
3:16 Speaker 01 Wow, thank you.
3:17 Speaker 00 So, I was aware, as a 56, 55-year-old man, I'm not the demographic as such. Apparently, 80% of viewers are women.
3:26 Speaker 01 Women, yeah.
3:27 Speaker 00 And probably on the younger side.
3:30 Speaker 00 For people who don't know, and everyone, most people probably do know this, it's kind of Jane Austen-esque, but it's not Jane Austen. It's set during the early 19th century in an alternative London regency era in which George III established racial equality and granted aristocratic titles, I'm reading this, to people of colour due to the African heritage of his wife, Queen Charlotte.
3:56 Speaker 01 Yeah, that is a show that's about escapism. And, you know, the first season came out during lockdown and people felt fed.
4:05 Speaker 00 It blew up the algorithm. Your romance was sort of the main storyline in season two. It was with you and the character of Lord Bridgerton, played by Jonathan Bailey.
4:18 Speaker 00 And you make a great couple. Could I say that? I think a lot of people have said how good your chemistry is.
4:24 Speaker 01 Yeah. I mean, Jonny, I...
4:28 Speaker 01 You know, learnt so much from him, um, from an acting point, obviously.
4:33 Speaker 00 Right, because he's a little older, so he will have been doing stage stuff.
4:37 Speaker 01 Totally. Oh, yeah. True thespian.
4:39 Speaker 00 He's a veteran.
4:40 Speaker 01 Hmm, hundred percent. So I learnt so much from him, obviously, because we filmed during lockdown. So we were together for like 11 months, every day, pretty much. But I, I think he set a great example, um, of, um, I guess for a better word, the loyalty to the show. And, you know, it is a show about family and returning home and returning to the family. And just, um, I think a lot of people follow that suit. I particularly learnt a lot from that example. And yeah, now when we go back, there is that environment of coming home and feeling like we're part of the family.
5:17 Speaker 00 I'm not sure if I follow, like, what's the alternative to that? Isn't that quite natural to feel the loyalty? Like, what would it feel, what would it be like to not be loyal? Do you know what I mean?
5:27 Speaker 01 I can only comment on what me and Johnny have done. And that is, um, we just really make sure that our schedules can just make it work.
5:36 Speaker 00 Oh, I see.
5:37 Speaker 01 Coming back and, you know, I think he flew between like Toronto and London back and forth whilst he was filming Wicked. Um, I, thank God, I've not been filming during the start of this year. I've done like eight cities in one month, so that would have been a bit nuts to, to figure out. But I would have done it. I would have scheduled it in. Yeah.
5:58 Speaker 00 What struck me as well is, okay, I'm gonna sound like such an old fart, but so there's going through it. It was, it was interesting to see how much delayed gratification there was.
6:07 Speaker 01 Slow burn.
6:08 Speaker 00 There's a slow burn.
6:09 Speaker 01 Yeah, totally.
6:10 Speaker 00 Uh, spoiler alert, if you haven't got all the way through season two, uh, switch off now. I think it's like episode, is it six or seven, um, where you finally have the kiss? And basic bitch that I am, I'm thinking, well, they got a lot of angles on that.
6:28 Speaker 01 Yeah.
6:29 Speaker 00 That must have taken a while.
6:31 Speaker 01 Well, like the Steadicam shots.
6:32 Speaker 00 Yeah, the Steadicam spinning one way, there's a Steadicam spinning the other way, there's an up above.
6:37 Speaker 01 Yeah.
6:37 Speaker 00 Um, that must be a whole morning.
6:42 Speaker 00 Isn't it?
6:42 Speaker 01 Yeah, probably. Well, the first kiss is in the church.
6:46 Speaker 00 Yeah, that's the one I'm talking about.
6:47 Speaker 01 Oh, yeah, that was. No, it wasn't a whole morning, but yeah, it was like, it was a shot. And we were filming, sorry to interrupt you.
6:53 Speaker 00 No, please.
6:54 Speaker 01 We were filming during Covid.
6:56 Speaker 00 Right.
6:57 Speaker 01 And we had to, this makes no sense at all, but I guess just for like, you know, to make production feel less anxious, we had to rinse with corsetile.
7:08 Speaker 00 Right, corsetile, that used to be a sponsor of the podcast.
7:11 Speaker 01 I'm shocked, no way.
7:13 Speaker 00 It's such a shame, they should come back, that would have been a perfect brand synergy.
7:16 Speaker 01 But there's, there is no way that that's gonna do anything. Anyway.
7:22 Speaker 00 Was that supposed to be a Covid thing, really?
7:24 Speaker 01 It was a Covid thing, so we would rinse our mouths and then they'd be like, they'd say, cut, take, you know, rinse our mouths, put the mask or visor back on and then go back in. Yeah, so that was.
7:36 Speaker 00 So you're standing there with masks and then taking them off to smooch and then putting the masks back on?
7:43 Speaker 01 We were definitely, it was very regimented back then with the masks and the visors. I don't know if it was that regimented.
7:49 Speaker 00 I'm also watching it thinking, how passionate, because like nowadays, people, I mean, I don't, this sounds weird. Am I gonna say this? Sometimes, like if there's a kiss, like you think, oh, are they gonna French kiss, right?
8:00 Speaker 01 Right.
8:01 Speaker 00 And then, and then is that in the script or how do you decide, or would that feel anachronistic? Do you know what I mean?
8:06 Speaker 01 What does anachronistic mean?
8:08 Speaker 00 It means like it would be not true to the time, ahistorical.
8:11 Speaker 01 Okay, so.
8:12 Speaker 00 Like, oh, they didn't do that in those days.
8:13 Speaker 01 Great point. I, I was told the lead up to that moment, ladies in that time weren't allowed to cross their legs or touch another man. So there were some scenes where I would touch his shoulder, maybe to get his attention or something. And they'd say, you can't do that. So that was really frustrating. I think Johnny and I were so lucky enough that we both had that amazing working chemistry together. And we adored the characters and their stories so much and really wanted to tell their love story in the best way possible. It's like. You've talked about intimacy coordinators on here before. I think it is important and I think.
8:57 Speaker 00 For a kiss, would you have one? I suppose you would. Would you?
8:59 Speaker 01 I can't remember if we had it.
9:00 Speaker 00 Mapping it out.
9:01 Speaker 01 Just for a kiss. I think the great thing is though, we worked together on that.
9:06 Speaker 00 You and Johnny?
9:06 Speaker 01 Yeah. You know, understanding what it was that we wanted to tell in that moment.
9:13 Speaker 00 For sure.
9:14 Speaker 01 Yeah.
9:14 Speaker 00 Hell yeah.
9:15 Speaker 01 Talked a lot about Bridgerton kissing.
9:17 Speaker 00 We have actually. It took longer than I expected. It's pretty so interesting.
9:24 Speaker 00 When you come onto that, because that was a big break for you, I think you've been in sex education, but you hadn't been the principal of a high-profile series like that.
9:35 Speaker 00 Is that massively stressful? It must be quite intimidating.
9:39 Speaker 01 I think it's stressful in the sense, okay, there's a big workload ahead. I knew that we were basically going to be in rehearsals and filming for a year. I love it. I love doing what I do and I felt just so happy to get the job, for one, and to be offered to embark something like that.
9:58 Speaker 00 Of course.
9:59 Speaker 01 And I think I was also so naive to how big the show was that I wasn't that intimidated.
10:05 Speaker 00 Are you in the first season?
10:07 Speaker 01 No.
10:08 Speaker 00 So you were in at the deep end.
10:11 Speaker 01 The first season just came out and it was.
10:13 Speaker 00 Massive. Did you know how big it was?
10:16 Speaker 01 Yeah.
10:16 Speaker 00 When you started?
10:17 Speaker 01 Yeah, in the sense I knew, it was so visible and everyone was talking about it and I knew, you know, how big it was. I guess I just didn't, I'd never really experienced anything like that. So I, which was probably a good thing. Because I just didn't, even after Bridgerton for a few months, I just didn't really, I wasn't aware. I didn't know.
10:37 Speaker 00 Really?
10:38 Speaker 01 Yeah.
10:40 Speaker 00 So then, season two of Bridgerton comes out and I think it's the biggest of all the seasons.
10:48 Speaker 01 That's a great opinion.
10:51 Speaker 00 Have you got a view on that?
10:53 Speaker 01 No, because I
10:56 Speaker 01 I think every season shines in its own way.
10:58 Speaker 00 You can't say that, but I can. I think that's data based. It's based on something. Haven't they counted the streams? You know what I'm talking about.
11:05 Speaker 01 I'm sure that they have.
11:06 Speaker 00 Would that be unseemly for you to agree with what I just said?
11:09 Speaker 01 I think as a cast member.
11:13 Speaker 00 It's a team effort.
11:13 Speaker 01 As a team, as a team member, as a family member.
11:17 Speaker 00 As a human member.
11:18 Speaker 01 As a human member. The sisterhood of Bridgerton.
11:22 Speaker 00 Yeah.
11:23 Speaker 01 I, I really think each season.
11:25 Speaker 00 It was the best. Yours was the best. Is that where that was going? Everyone loved it.
11:31 Speaker 01 You should watch season four, Yaren and Luke. Yaren and Luke.
11:35 Speaker 00 What's wrong with season three?
11:36 Speaker 01 Season three is great as well, but season four is out now.
11:39 Speaker 00 My one note for Bridgerton would be they use the word indeed too much.
11:43 Speaker 01 Oh, yeah.
11:44 Speaker 00 Have you noticed that?
11:45 Speaker 01 Now that you've said it, that lands.
11:49 Speaker 00 It's like, how do we make this sound like it was from the early 18th century? Well, it's actually early 19th century, isn't it, its regency? What if you say indeed, pass me the coffee, indeed?
11:57 Speaker 01 Oh, really?
11:58 Speaker 00 Oh, really, indeed?
11:59 Speaker 01 No, no.
12:03 Speaker 00 That's my writer's note. That's all right, isn't it? That's said in a spirit of love. What's your, do you have a note for them as well? In case they're listening, the writers.
12:11 Speaker 01 If any writers are watching.
12:15 Speaker 01 That, that is Louis's opinion.
12:18 Speaker 00 Indeed.
12:19 Speaker 01 Indeed.
12:21 Speaker 00 I will visit the Modest, indeed.
12:23 Speaker 01 You're right, there's going to be memes now, videos.
12:26 Speaker 00 Indeed. There should be a drinking game, have a drink every time they say indeed.
12:31 Speaker 01 Yeah, a drinking game.
12:32 Speaker 00 You wouldn't even last 20 minutes. Indeed.
12:37 Speaker 00 What's the, I know, I know this, but just, we were disagreeing about the ton. What is the ton?
12:44 Speaker 01 The ton is like the society.
12:45 Speaker 00 It is, right?
12:46 Speaker 01 Yeah.
12:46 Speaker 00 It's not a short for Bridgerton. That's just a coincidence.
12:50 Speaker 01 I think, I don't know. I think so.
12:53 Speaker 00 You don't know? You live there.
12:55 Speaker 01 I know. I know. I'm sure it's in the books somewhere as well.
12:59 Speaker 00 It's short for bon ton, apparently, which means like good tone or.
13:03 Speaker 01 Wow, you knew the answer. You're a bit of a poke player.
13:09 Speaker 00 Well, it's no good me answering my own questions. If only I wouldn't need to have any guests. I'd just come on and speak to myself for an hour. Indeed. Basically, people love Bridgerton. And then there's a few who don't. This kind of questions around the whole because the way race is handled, right? Are you aware of this?
13:33 Speaker 00 Because it's sort of, it projects a much happier version onto the past, right? There's, there's people get along, there's no real racial prejudice in it. There was a story in the New York Times for 2024.
13:49 Speaker 00 Basically kind of giving the alternate view, saying it's a magical, multiracial past. Have you thought about that at all? Like, you wouldn't want that to give a false sense of actually how the past was. You know, there's this alternate version where actually increasing, especially post 2020, like, oh, we need more accountability for colonialism. You know, and we need stately homes to have sections where they're like, actually, it was the slave trade that made this possible.
14:17 Speaker 00 So I guess there's a tension there. I'm wondering if, is that something you've spent any time thinking about?
14:21 Speaker 01 About the show?
14:22 Speaker 00 Yeah, right, like the pros and cons of that, of that, of that kind of fantasy.
14:27 Speaker 01 Yeah. And I think it's totally valid you raise it. It's definitely a conversation a lot of people have around the show. I think to be specific about the show, this is a show that is about a society of characters that we meet that are incredibly nuanced and are portraying human emotion that we all experience, right? And one being love and desire.
14:51 Speaker 00 The big one being love. Loving is the high water mark of living, as D.H. Lawrence said. It's just luxuriating in the intensity of that experience of young love and lust.
15:00 Speaker 01 Yeah. I mean, I, I love talking about love. I think it's, it's such a shared, universal language. And, you know, to be part of a show that is driven by that subject is incredible. And I think this show, you know, that it's, it's colorful, it's fun, it's escapism. It is made to spark the imagination of the viewer of the possibility of love and family. And I think if you want to watch something that's more fictionally accurate, maybe it's just not the right genre. It's not about anything else, I don't think.
15:36 Speaker 01 Would you agree?
15:36 Speaker 00 I think I would agree.
15:40 Speaker 00 Let me just see what the guy says who wrote the article. "We can watch ourselves speak languages we did not speak in rooms where we were unlikely to have been welcome. We are included, but our actual history is erased."
15:53 Speaker 01 It's valid to have that feeling and thought, totally. I don't disagree with it. I guess what I'm saying is this show has a specific purpose and perhaps to explore the purpose of something more historically accurate. There's something else that you must choose to watch.
16:11 Speaker 00 The one quote that stuck out was you've said, "I don't want to play stereotypes."
16:19 Speaker 00 You just want to feel what cast, where the role comes first rather than something it seems to represent.
16:27 Speaker 01 Yeah, I mean, look, I'd love to do more culturally specific roles, for sure, but it's not all I want to do. I'm an everyday girl to a degree. Like, I understand like my lifestyle's not fully relatable with what I do for a living, but I want to make work that I can relate to things that are just more than my heritage. So, good writing, a great director, a great script, great music producer, great storyline and urgency for something to be told. Like, any actor would approach something.
17:01 Speaker 00 Can we talk about your upbringing and what you were talking about?
17:05 Speaker 00 I knew you're a Garland-ed, well, certainly loved actor. I hadn't realised there was a musical background as well. And also, they've sent some music over, which I enjoyed. Tell me about it.
17:20 Speaker 01 So, yeah, I started singing when I was really young, like six, seven. Did like classical training, piano playing. And then I did musical theatre and I thought musical theatre is what I wanted to pursue as a forever career and I learnt very quickly that it wasn't what I wanted to do. And then I.
17:38 Speaker 00 This is when you were how old, late teens?
17:41 Speaker 01 Yeah, teens, yeah.
17:42 Speaker 00 Cause you'd left school at fifteen, did I read that?
17:45 Speaker 01 Um, I left school, I left home really young.
17:47 Speaker 00 Did you, how old?
17:49 Speaker 01 Fifteen.
17:49 Speaker 00 Did you go to boarding school?
17:51 Speaker 01 No, no.
17:51 Speaker 00 Where did you move to?
17:52 Speaker 01 Um, I was between LA and London for a long time.
17:56 Speaker 00 Really, just living with family?
17:58 Speaker 01 Yeah, family, friends.
18:00 Speaker 00 Sounds like there's a story there, isn't there?
18:02 Speaker 01 There is, there is a story.
18:04 Speaker 00 Are we gonna go into it?
18:05 Speaker 01 I, I, I did try acting school, I tried drama school.
18:09 Speaker 00 Right.
18:10 Speaker 01 Um, I went to a school, I was to a school in West London.
18:14 Speaker 00 In Chiswick?
18:15 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah, you know the one.
18:17 Speaker 00 I mean, I don't know, I only from reading the notes, is it a famous one?
18:21 Speaker 01 I mean.
18:21 Speaker 00 I mean, I've got it written down somewhere.
18:22 Speaker 01 It was, I guess it is.
18:24 Speaker 00 You were liv-, was it, you were living in Beckinsfield at this time, were you?
18:27 Speaker 01 I went to high school in Beckinsfield, yeah, and I was always back and forth between England and California, I have family there.
18:34 Speaker 00 Did you not get along with school?
18:36 Speaker 01 I hated school, I really didn't like school. Um, I had a really hard time at school, I mean, I, I went to an all-girls school for one, which is just carnage and I was so, such a dreamer and I wanted this life beyond high school and beyond the town that I grew up in.
18:58 Speaker 00 That being, that being Camberley or Beckinsfield?
19:01 Speaker 01 Both, both.
19:03 Speaker 00 Both quite nice places, I'm told.
19:05 Speaker 01 Really lovely.
19:05 Speaker 00 I did a little reading on them.
19:07 Speaker 01 Yeah, I was very privileged to grow up there.
19:09 Speaker 00 Camberley sounded nice, since it's in Surrey.
19:13 Speaker 01 Yeah.
19:13 Speaker 00 Beckinsfield's in Buckinghamshire.
19:15 Speaker 01 Yeah.
19:16 Speaker 00 Quite, it's a, it's a kind of, um.
19:18 Speaker 01 I mean, that was a stretch for us, like.
19:20 Speaker 00 I was gonna say.
19:20 Speaker 01 My parents really stretched to get us to Buckinghamshire.
19:23 Speaker 00 This is a random fact, in two thousand and eight, it was the most expensive town in Britain.
19:29 Speaker 01 Yeah, so we could, we, we could not afford it, but the schools were top-notch, like really good grammar schools round there. My brother went to like a really great boys' grammar school and I.
19:42 Speaker 00 Your dad was a pharmacist, your mum an accountant.
19:46 Speaker 00 I'm just chucking these little facts in just to flesh it out.
19:49 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
19:50 Speaker 00 So they were reaching up a bit financially in order to establish you there.
19:56 Speaker 01 Oh, yeah, hundred percent. My mom worked round the clock.
20:00 Speaker 00 So it was a it was a girls' day school.
20:03 Speaker 01 Which I failed my eleven plus.
20:05 Speaker 00 Paint the picture.
20:05 Speaker 01 So they moved all the way there and my brother's obviously like a genius.
20:09 Speaker 00 Is the older brother Sean?
20:11 Speaker 01 Yeah.
20:12 Speaker 00 Two years older.
20:13 Speaker 01 Three years.
20:14 Speaker 00 Three years older.
20:15 Speaker 01 And he he's so smart and very academically strong and they moved all the way there and Sean obviously passed his eleven plus and got into the grammar school and we got there and I failed. So that was pretty.
20:30 Speaker 00 That wasn't part of the plan.
20:31 Speaker 01 Was not part of the plan. But then I appealed, so I faked my way in.
20:37 Speaker 00 Well, they took another look at your exams and said, actually.
20:40 Speaker 01 I think appealing is literally when the parents go in and they beg. They literally beg, like.
20:45 Speaker 00 I'm surprised that works.
20:47 Speaker 01 Well, I don't know.
20:48 Speaker 00 It undermines one's faith a bit. Oh, if you're pushy enough, they will get you in.
20:52 Speaker 01 Yeah.
20:53 Speaker 00 Maybe they were able to shed more light on your winning personality and other assets.
20:58 Speaker 01 Well, I didn't really have a great personality then. I was so, I was not cool. So I don't know.
21:05 Speaker 00 You've said you were rebellious. Was that later?
21:08 Speaker 01 Yeah, I think in the sense of, I think it would have been a really safe route, especially for my parents to know that I was gonna choose a career, go to university, get the degree, practise and become something a little bit more straightforward. So, yeah, I think I was rebellious in the sense I I made it really hard for my family in the sense I I chose to do a career that can be quite expensive to to do, to start in. And there's no guarantee of money or success and.
21:42 Speaker 01 You know, there's no, there's no dry land.
21:44 Speaker 00 You, you have Tamil heritage. Do you feel connected to your Tamil heritage?
21:48 Speaker 01 Um, sometimes, yeah.
21:50 Speaker 00 Do you speak Tamil?
21:51 Speaker 01 No.
21:51 Speaker 00 Do you go back, have you been over there at all?
21:53 Speaker 01 Yeah, I used to go back as a kid. Um, I went to Mumbai a few years ago. I, I would love to visit India more often. And I really should. Maybe I'll go back this Christmas.
22:04 Speaker 00 Presumably your parents had a, an option to raise you bilingual and then thought, nah.
22:11 Speaker 01 I know. My mom speaks Hindi, Tamil, Tamil.
22:15 Speaker 00 So I was saying it wrong the whole time?
22:17 Speaker 01 Well, I've been so westernized, it's a joke.
22:23 Speaker 01 And English, obviously now. Um, and all I can speak is English. I'm, I learnt more German when I had a German partner. Then I did rate being raised in an Indian family.
22:34 Speaker 00 But talk about the school and how it was a challenging environment. Did you not have great friends? Or was it a very, was it cliquey?
22:44 Speaker 01 So cliquey. I had friends, but I, I just think I, I spent a lot of my time alone. And I, I think it was a reflection of how unhappy I was, that I was always daydreaming about what my life would be outside of all of this. So I was always.
22:59 Speaker 00 And what would it have been? Thinking about what? As an actor, as a musician, singer?
23:04 Speaker 01 Yeah, everything. Just like.
23:06 Speaker 00 As a star.
23:07 Speaker 01 Well, I didn't say that.
23:10 Speaker 00 But it's a daydream. You're allowed to say that.
23:11 Speaker 01 Yeah, I, I wanted something, I wanted a life where I was fulfilling my dreams and my passions and to have fun. And I guess I was rebellious in the sense I didn't like being told what to do. I felt like I was wasting time. It's just maybe not a great example to set for any young audiences listening to this, but I, I found it really hard.
23:33 Speaker 00 Were you, did you apply yourself? Did you find the studies difficult?
23:37 Speaker 01 My brother used to lock me in the house and because he's a teacher, he's great at teaching kids. I'm not even joking when I say this. He would take photos of, like, like a forensic.
23:51 Speaker 01 Of the house to make sure that I didn't get up and not do my studies. Like so that the TV wasn't like, okay, it makes him sound like he's crazy. But it's actually more a reflection of how shit I was.
24:03 Speaker 00 Amazing that he was that invested in your academic success, right? Quite sweet.
24:08 Speaker 01 He's not crazy.
24:10 Speaker 00 So what were you listening to, watching? If you had dreams of show business success or whatever it may have been, what were you connecting with culturally?
24:19 Speaker 01 I grew up listening to a lot of rock, Rolling Stones, The Doors, Pink Floyd. Reggae, Bob Marley, I grew up listening to. Yeah, my dad has excellent taste in music. And then we would listen to Andrew Lloyd Webber's music. And then I did classical singing from a young age. So I sang German lead, Italian.
24:44 Speaker 00 What's German lead?
24:45 Speaker 01 Singing, German singing.
24:47 Speaker 00 Oh, leader, like the German word for songs?
24:51 Speaker 01 Yeah.
24:52 Speaker 00 Okay, I thought it was like, it was like you can sing soprano, you can sing German lead, like that's a vocal range.
24:58 Speaker 01 No, yeah, it could be.
25:00 Speaker 00 Sounds like, well, German lead or German backup?
25:06 Speaker 00 What about, so we, but was it in movies? Were you thinking, obviously now you're a successful actor in TV and movies. So we, did you have your eyes on that at all?
25:17 Speaker 01 To be an actor?
25:17 Speaker 00 Yeah.
25:18 Speaker 01 Yeah, I, I grew up watching Tarantino movies from quite a young age. Like Uma Thurman's performance in Kill Bill changed my life. As a young girl, watching a woman of that kind of character, so tenacious and so, you know, physically strong. And the storyline being so simple that she just wants to get her daughter back, kill fucking everyone on the way.
25:44 Speaker 00 Yes, she does.
25:44 Speaker 01 Female rage. And the way, I'm such a Tarantino fan, the way his movies are executed and the soundtracks as well. I just was like, I just want to be a part of this form of work, this line of work. So, yeah, I.
26:00 Speaker 00 Have you met Tarantino?
26:03 Speaker 01 Have you?
26:03 Speaker 00 He's retired from movie making, I believe.
26:05 Speaker 01 But don't they say that all the time and then one other one comes out?
26:09 Speaker 00 Do you think so? Do you think it's become like a flex? It's like boxers used to do that and then they'd come back, I'm gonna come out of retirement. And now it almost feels like that's just something everyone does. Rappers do it.
26:19 Speaker 01 Oh, really?
26:20 Speaker 00 Jay-Z retired and then just came back. I'm thinking of retiring just purely to get a bigger payday. Tyson Fury's retiring every couple of years. I don't think that's calculated, but I think it ends up kind of being advantageous. It drives up demand. You should retire.
26:36 Speaker 01 Maybe.
26:36 Speaker 00 Just for like six months.
26:38 Speaker 01 Maybe this is us.
26:38 Speaker 00 I wonder how long you have to do it before your value, before it kind of kicks in. I haven't met Tarantino to answer your question. I'm not very connected in Hollywood. I hate to disappoint you. But my cousin, Justin.
26:49 Speaker 01 Who I know.
26:50 Speaker 00 Who you may know. Justin Theroux, for some reason, he insists on mispronouncing our name, is in Devil's Way Prada 2 as well. Was it all right? Did it go okay?
27:02 Speaker 01 Yeah, I saw it for the first time on Monday.
27:05 Speaker 00 Would you give him a good review? Justin, did you enjoy? Is he a compatible confrere on the set?
27:12 Speaker 01 Hundred percent. He is a very pivotal character and moment.
27:15 Speaker 00 But is he a nice guy?
27:16 Speaker 01 He is a wonderful guy. Really lovely.
27:19 Speaker 00 Is he toxic? Is he difficult? Is he diva-ish? Is he a martinet?
27:23 Speaker 01 No, he's incredibly kind.
27:28 Speaker 00 Not that I'm leading the witness. I spoke to him five minutes before you came in the room.
27:32 Speaker 01 Oh, yeah.
27:32 Speaker 00 And said, I'm about to speak to Simone. What's the word? And he said, two thumbs up.
27:37 Speaker 01 Great.
27:38 Speaker 00 I'm trying to get some beef going, but it's not really working. I've heard, I've read you, I think Mindy Kaling has been important to you.
27:48 Speaker 01 Growing up, yeah. I look up to her so much and I think she's amazing. But I grew up watching her.
27:56 Speaker 00 Was it, you talk more about that, though, the idea that for you as a girl, young woman, growing up, it would have felt, what, that it connected you to something, to see people that looked like you?
28:07 Speaker 01 Representation, yeah. Though it wasn't really any, I never, I wasn't self-conscious about it.
28:13 Speaker 00 No.
28:14 Speaker 01 I, I, I knew that I had dark skin and sometimes I was bullied for it, or like, it was the, you know, racial banter within the family, like, it was just a thing, but like, I was never.
28:25 Speaker 00 Within the family?
28:26 Speaker 01 Well, in the sense, it's like, well, you know, if I got told off at school, my mum would be like, well, make sure that you double down on this because you're the brown kid and you're easy to pick out and to remember, because that's what they will refer you to. Which one was it? Oh, the brown kid. So that's what I mean. It was just something that was so normalized in my, that was just what it was. But like, I, it was never like, oh, I'm never going to achieve my dreams because I'm brown. I was so beyond, I, I didn't think that way at all.
28:57 Speaker 00 And did, at the school, was it a big deal or, or not really?
29:01 Speaker 01 Not really, I think.
29:01 Speaker 00 There's some schools in West London that are majority Asian, like, there's certain parts of West London where it, there's just large Asian communities.
29:10 Speaker 01 Yeah.
29:11 Speaker 00 But it sounds like maybe your school wasn't one of those?
29:14 Speaker 01 Yeah, it was predominantly white, yeah. But school, I, I always knew school was just a moment in time, it wasn't a reflection of what my reality would be out in the bigger world.
29:27 Speaker 00 You, at a certain point, you thought, okay, I don't like being at this school, I've gone back to the earlier topic. And I, I, I want to pursue my destiny, I want to seek my fortune.
29:39 Speaker 01 So I, I tried out a year at this drama school and I, I essentially got kicked out because I, I sucked at dancing and I was told that it wasn't.
29:49 Speaker 00 But it wasn't just a dance school?
29:51 Speaker 01 It was a triple threat course for musical theatre. I and a lot of other people would argue that was strongly leaning towards the dance threat.
30:00 Speaker 00 Was there something about musical theatre in particular?
30:03 Speaker 01 Yeah, I loved the discipline of it. I grew up classically singing.
30:07 Speaker 00 When you say musical theatre, I'm thinking of The Sound of Music.
30:10 Speaker 01 Yeah, Rodgers and Hammerstein.
30:12 Speaker 00 Guys and Dolls, Mary Poppins.
30:15 Speaker 01 West Side Story.
30:17 Speaker 00 That was your meat and potatoes. I love that stuff. What was your favourite musical?
30:22 Speaker 01 Gosh, Evita, West Side Story.
30:26 Speaker 00 Sound of Music?
30:27 Speaker 01 I love Sound of Music.
30:29 Speaker 00 I feel like I've kind of forced you to say that.
30:31 Speaker 01 No, I love Sound of Music. I know it's set in Austria. I used to go to Switzerland and Austria all the time and it's one of my favourite places on the planet, the mountains.
30:40 Speaker 00 It's got people, everyone knows what Sound of Music is. Is that Rodgers and Hammerstein?
30:44 Speaker 01 I think it is.
30:45 Speaker 00 It's got a serious social message about defying the Nazis and he sings Adelweiß, I believe, is it Rex Harrison? No, Christopher Plummer, I'm getting mixed up. Anyway, Adelweiß is the song.
30:59 Speaker 01 Adelweiß is such a beautiful song and it's about a mountain flower and people, men, used to climb up the mountain to pick the adelweiß to bring back for their wives to show them their, their love.
31:11 Speaker 00 Is that true?
31:12 Speaker 01 Yeah, it's a mountain flower that will literally weather any storm.
31:15 Speaker 00 I knew that it was a mountain flower. I'd been told that, you know, they pitch it as like it's a traditional Austrian folk song in the musical, but apparently it was written for the musical.
31:24 Speaker 01 Really?
31:25 Speaker 00 Yeah. Quite a surprise, right? Because it's got a timeless feel about it.
31:30 Speaker 01 Yeah.
31:31 Speaker 00 So you'd seen all these musicals, you thought, I can do that. You went to the school and then they're like, nah.
31:37 Speaker 01 Well, I was like, I can do that and I loved doing it and I loved the discipline of it and I loved the art of it. I really loved it. And then I went to the school and I realised, oh, the behind the scenes of it is actually not who I want to be and not who I am as a person and.
31:55 Speaker 00 What do you mean the behind the scenes of it?
31:57 Speaker 01 Just like.
31:58 Speaker 00 The reality.
31:59 Speaker 01 The reality, yeah. And then I really started to think, do I want a longstanding career in musical theatre for the rest of my life? Not really. I wanted to do, I was the kid, when we finished school, I would go home and everyone else would be rehearsing or whatever. That applies to the course and I'd be at home watching Tarantino movies and.
32:23 Speaker 01 Or singing Alicia Keys and all of that. And yeah, I think it just, I think it was really evident that I was really leaning into the singing and the acting side. But the dance side, I could move and I can dance, but I by no means am I a ballerina. I, I always believe, especially artists, but this applies to anyone. I think you, you, you always know your agency and who you are. I think you've just got to be in the right environment with the right people and then it can be let out. And I was, I was not in the right environment, which is fine. I, I left and then I started working for Netflix and doing other things.
33:14 Speaker 00 This episode is brought to you by Moneybox, the award-winning saving and investing app. Money's important. Why? Well, because it means freedom, freedom to enjoy your life. We're now in a new tax year and as long as you're in the UK and over 18, you have a brand new ISA allowance. So you can save up to £20,000 and not pay any tax on the interest you earn. This is the last year that your cash ISA allowance is £20,000, before it's reduced for under 65s in April 2027. Handy to know. To make the most of it, check out Moneybox. Moneybox is trusted by over 1.5 million savers and their customers rate them excellent on TrustPilot. So if you've been putting off sorting out your savings, now's the time.
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34:16 Speaker 00 We should talk about, you mentioned Netflix. So when you finally, you're, you're, you've got paparazzi at your door, right? It must get quite weird quite quick.
34:24 Speaker 01 I think paparazzi, no, they went to my old family address.
34:28 Speaker 00 Did they?
34:30 Speaker 01 And they went to my neighbour.
34:31 Speaker 00 Back in Beckinsfield area? You don't want to say Beckinsfield.
34:36 Speaker 01 I'm not, I'm not.
34:37 Speaker 00 Did you never live there?
34:38 Speaker 01 Never ever lived there.
34:40 Speaker 00 It's quite a big place.
34:41 Speaker 01 You go there now, house but not down.
34:45 Speaker 00 Nice, you're throwing them off the scent. You're worried that people arrive in Beckingsfield and they just start going around like, "Hey, can you show us where Simone Ashley's house is?"
34:53 Speaker 01 Well, that happened and they targeted a really old lady and she had no idea and she-
35:00 Speaker 00 But it wasn't a fan, it was a, was it a fan or a paparazzo?
35:03 Speaker 01 I think it was The Sun.
35:05 Speaker 00 The Sun newspaper?
35:06 Speaker 01 Yeah.
35:08 Speaker 00 And they went to an old lady's house to do what?
35:10 Speaker 01 To ask where I was and then she gave them a different address and it was in like buttfuck nowhere. So that was fine.
35:17 Speaker 00 She threw them off the scent?
35:19 Speaker 01 I think so, yeah. I've never had them outside my doorstep in London. They're everywhere in New York. So I was like-
35:30 Speaker 00 New Yorkie goes with the territory in a weird way.
35:32 Speaker 01 I think people almost get ready for it.
35:34 Speaker 00 Yeah, I don't know.
35:35 Speaker 01 I just make sure I've got my lip balm on.
35:37 Speaker 00 Where do you mostly live?
35:40 Speaker 01 New York.
35:41 Speaker 00 Do you?
35:41 Speaker 01 I moved there last year, yeah.
35:43 Speaker 00 Nice.
35:44 Speaker 01 I'm having the time of my life in New York. I love it. I changed my life. Yeah.
35:50 Speaker 00 It must have been very odd, like when you realised, "Tabloids are interested in me", "Social media, I'm gonna dig out a quote", you said something like, you said, "Social media is something I need to get better at."
36:09 Speaker 01 Did I? When did I say that?
36:10 Speaker 00 I think probably in Harper's Bazaar last year, maybe?
36:14 Speaker 01 Don't know. Yeah, I guess I do if I said that.
36:17 Speaker 00 What I'm asking is, how did you, how easy was it to navigate? What insights did you have when you realised, "Oh, I've become public property"? Like suddenly people who like me are saying how amazing I am and then there's a few people who don't like me and they're saying the opposite. And can you stay away from that and all that?
36:35 Speaker 01 Property is a profound word to use, but I guess some people feel that way.
36:40 Speaker 00 Yeah, they do. Especially with that parasocial relationship that, you know, fans have with something as huge as Bridgerton. People are over invested, like they're like, "Oh, that's my Bridgerton."
36:54 Speaker 01 Yeah. Oh, 100%.
36:55 Speaker 00 That's my Jonathan Bailey. Do you know what I mean?
36:58 Speaker 01 I do know what you mean. I think- Okay, I mean, I've had more and more experience now doing interviews, press, press tours, promoting work that I, in terms of like the tabloid side of it, you soon learn things that you just don't want to be highlighted in a sparkly headline on the Daily Mail, which will happen. There might be something pulled out here.
37:22 Speaker 00 My season was the best. Simone actually rips the other seasons of Bridgerton in a bizarre tirade. It won't say that, obviously, but Pete, it's amazing how something seemingly innocent can somehow, out of context, seem quite weird.
37:41 Speaker 01 And I learnt that very quickly. So that was something I really had to navigate and just learn when to shut up, basically. I think in terms of the public property part, and maybe this is something I need to work on and worry about myself more, but I'm fine with it in the sense I think my mum raised me really well. I think I'm not an offensive person. Look, I love my work. If it means that I can go and make music, act, do all these creative things, great, I get to do my passion in life. And yes, it's a choice I made, so no one put a gun to my head saying, hey, you've got to do this. I made this choice and there are highs to it and then there are parts that are a little bit, you know,
38:26 Speaker 01 I have to navigate it. So I'm fine. I actually, what I find stressful is protecting the people who are closest to me, around me, because I would never want them to feel the stress of my lifestyle. So that's a big thing for me.
38:45 Speaker 00 Someone said, "Other people is the price that celebrities pay for their fame." In other words, like, you kind of have all the perks, right, as a famous person, one does, but the people around you don't really get the benefits and they have...
39:00 Speaker 00 They're the ones who sometimes pay the price a bit. Certainly, it's boring. I don't mind going around doing selfies. But it's kind of boring for my family. I mean, that's a small example.
39:09 Speaker 01 You know, I've I've been lucky enough to be with people that encourage me and that like, go, go shine, go do your thing. Like, go, go.
39:18 Speaker 00 Your parents.
39:19 Speaker 01 Parents, friendships, relationships. I think things change, you know. I can only imagine it's very different when you're a bit older and you've got family and you've been in a partnership with someone for many, many years. I can imagine it changes, but at the moment, I'm not married. I'm dating, so.
39:40 Speaker 00 Don't be a big statement if you said you were married.
39:42 Speaker 01 Oh, yeah. The first time I'm revealing it as well.
39:45 Speaker 00 Okay, this is a hot potato.
39:47 Speaker 01 Okay.
39:48 Speaker 00 Is it? This is something I talked to Joan Collins about.
39:53 Speaker 00 She talked about how if you were too beautiful, it could hold you back. So you're very beautiful and I wonder if you feel that in any way, there's any context in which that could feel like a disadvantage.
40:09 Speaker 01 Thank you for saying that. I feel like, do you ever feel, you have to feel obliged to say thank you if someone makes that comment, right? It's weird.
40:16 Speaker 00 I'm not sure. Did you feel like, did you just say it because you felt like you should?
40:21 Speaker 01 Yeah.
40:23 Speaker 00 You didn't feel very grateful.
40:25 Speaker 01 Well, I'm not gonna go indeed, am I?
40:26 Speaker 00 Indeed. No, I know what you mean. Yeah, no, I think that's probably right.
40:31 Speaker 01 I don't analyse myself in that way. I I'm so lucky to have the opportunities I have. So I'm not gonna sit here and complain about how I may or may not look.
40:42 Speaker 00 The question would be like, well, why would it hold you back?
40:44 Speaker 01 Yeah.
40:45 Speaker 00 I'm thinking out loud now.
40:46 Speaker 01 I guess, I guess, I guess the answer is less about us, more about the decision makers and them just being stupid.
40:56 Speaker 00 And there's the clickbait.
40:57 Speaker 01 Do you, well, do you not think?
40:59 Speaker 00 I don't know. Who are the decision makers?
41:01 Speaker 01 I don't know. I think, well, okay, in theory, yes, that that is correct. And I'm sure it's an opinion.
41:08 Speaker 00 Which, what is correct?
41:09 Speaker 01 Okay, maybe you see a performance or something and you're like, oh, maybe you've heard someone be like, oh, that that's so distracting because of how they look.
41:16 Speaker 00 Or maybe the, if, there's another construction which is, oh, she's a model, uh, look at her Instagram, she's doing, I'm not talking about you specifically, this is a kind of fictional person, she's always on the cover of Vogue or on a runway or, and she's not doing street theatre in Poland. Do you know what I'm talking about?
41:34 Speaker 01 I do know what you're talking about, yeah.
41:35 Speaker 00 And so you could imagine that would create a prejudice that, oh, um, that brings an association of glamour rather than craft.
41:44 Speaker 01 Right, I understand that.
41:45 Speaker 00 Fairly or unfairly, I think that's.
41:46 Speaker 01 No, I think it's always about the craft, totally. If your craft is like your ride or die and your main priority, and that's why you're doing something and learning more about your craft, exercising that muscle, that is all that matters, but I think, I, how, how boring to fit into a category of how you got there. Because I think.
42:09 Speaker 00 Well, we should, I don't know, people who are listening or what you would know, that you, that initially you got signed up as a model, is that correct?
42:16 Speaker 01 I actually didn't. I did a little bit of modelling in LA, um, just to pay the bills.
42:20 Speaker 00 When you're in late teens, you'd moved to, we've resumed the sub-narrative. Having left, uh, the Chiswick Performing Arts School, you'd got, you went to LA?
42:31 Speaker 01 Yeah.
42:31 Speaker 00 Or to Ojai?
42:32 Speaker 01 No, I've got family in Ojai. I went to LA.
42:35 Speaker 00 Did you get scouted when you were out there?
42:37 Speaker 01 Uh, no, I got scouted in London, but I didn't book any work. I made no money. I basically used it so I could stay in this apartment and audition for like.
42:48 Speaker 00 Really?
42:48 Speaker 01 Yeah.
42:49 Speaker 00 Why, having signed you in London, did they send you to LA?
42:52 Speaker 01 I think it was my idea. I think I was like, I do, I just want to go there.
42:57 Speaker 00 And your parents said?
42:59 Speaker 01 My, my parents, I, because I was so young in my late teens, my mum was like, okay, just let her try it out. And then when I came back to London and I was auditioning more and stuff, I think I was like 21 and my mum was like, she ever so slightly whispered, like, if this doesn't work out in a few years' time, we, we kind of need to reassess it. And I, I always knew I'd be fine.
43:25 Speaker 00 Was there a time when they were freaking out? Like, when you got, you did say you were expelled from the, the performing arts school, right? They must have been like, oh, that's not good.
43:34 Speaker 01 I, if they did, they never vocalized it to me.
43:36 Speaker 00 Really? So they were pretty chill by and large?
43:39 Speaker 01 No, they, I think they were just more like, I don't know, to be honest. I was so not bothered by it. Obviously, I was emotional when it happened and like crying to my boyfriend at the time. But even he was like, this is a good thing. This is fine.
43:56 Speaker 00 That's good.
43:56 Speaker 01 Life can be your education, not an institute.
43:59 Speaker 00 The school of life, the university of life, the university of hard knocks.
44:05 Speaker 01 Yeah.
44:10 Speaker 00 Zayn Malik.
44:12 Speaker 01 Wow, you are going back. Yeah. I love how I was told by Disney to come here and talk about specific things.
44:22 Speaker 00 We've talked about, what else?
44:24 Speaker 01 You have come up with some real, like, really cool, like, niche things. Thank you for doing your research.
44:31 Speaker 00 Zayn Malik is not, I beg your pardon.
44:33 Speaker 01 No, niche, in my career, yeah.
44:37 Speaker 00 By the way, what did Disney tell you to, but we talked about Devil Wears Prada 2.
44:41 Speaker 01 Not really.
44:42 Speaker 00 Danny Tucci.
44:43 Speaker 01 We have not talked about it.
44:44 Speaker 00 Meryl Streep.
44:44 Speaker 01 We've not, yes, but we haven't spoken about it.
44:46 Speaker 00 Let's say something about that.
44:48 Speaker 01 Ask me a question.
44:50 Speaker 00 How was it making The Devil Wears Prada two?
44:53 Speaker 01 Amazing, best summer of my life. I've said that so many times, it's getting boring now. I need to stop saying it's the best summer of my life.
44:59 Speaker 00 But it's supposed to be good.
45:01 Speaker 01 My first day on that movie, I was not relaxed at all. I was incredibly nervous.
45:06 Speaker 00 First day must be tough.
45:08 Speaker 01 Yeah, I was thrown in.
45:09 Speaker 00 Do you do a table read as well?
45:12 Speaker 01 We did do a table read. That was nerve wracking, yeah. And it was my first time meeting everyone.
45:17 Speaker 00 You're working.
45:19 Speaker 01 Off the script.
45:19 Speaker 00 Off the script. In a way, I'd be thinking, well, at least you don't have to memorize it, you can just read it out. So maybe that's less nerve wracking.
45:27 Speaker 01 But then I actually find it a bit more nerve wracking because you're staring at the page and especially if you're nervous and new, you're really trying to show that you've got the job for a reason. So you're just clinging on to this script, trying to make it sound exciting. But on set, yeah, different kind of nerves.
45:48 Speaker 00 I'm feeling ending energy. I feel like, I feel like it'd be good to end on something of substance, but, you know, my feelings only count for so much. What does the future hold? That's not a bad ending question. Where do you go next? You've got, you're taping the movie, it's called, you peaked.
46:06 Speaker 01 Peaked.
46:07 Speaker 00 And the music's coming.
46:08 Speaker 01 Music's coming out.
46:09 Speaker 00 Recorded with, I should mention Fraser T Smith.
46:12 Speaker 01 Who you know.
46:13 Speaker 00 I met him at Stormzy's party, name drop.
46:15 Speaker 01 Very cool.
46:16 Speaker 00 Uh, and I've been a fan of his music. Do you know what the T stands for?
46:22 Speaker 01 Why don't I know that?
46:23 Speaker 00 Should know.
46:24 Speaker 01 I just thought Theodore.
46:25 Speaker 00 Why do I know that is probably more to the point.
46:28 Speaker 01 Yeah, why do you?
46:29 Speaker 00 Because I looked it up. It stands for Thornycroft.
46:33 Speaker 01 Ah, well, that makes so much sense.
46:35 Speaker 00 You could see why he might drop it because he's a grime producer. Well, he's not just. In fact, for five years, he was Craig David's guitarist.
46:42 Speaker 01 I know. Yeah, we went to Jules Holland together, where he played at Craig. Filmed it.
46:48 Speaker 00 So they're still tight, him and Craig.
46:50 Speaker 01 Oh.
46:51 Speaker 00 Made amazing. So if you listen to the guitar on I'm Walking Away, you're probably listening to Fraser's guitar work, I'm guessing. So there's that. What else?
47:00 Speaker 01 Devil Wears Prada.
47:01 Speaker 00 But the big picture, and the plan is to scale the heights, to find love?
47:07 Speaker 01 Oh, yeah, always, always. Have another great year in New York.
47:13 Speaker 00 Are you happily single?
47:14 Speaker 01 Oh, I'm having, yeah, I'm having a great time. Yeah, I definitely want a relationship and feel very ready for a relationship. But I think it's about finding the right person. And everyone always says right time, but I think just finding someone that's loves a choice, you know? That's like, okay, I choose to commit to this or do this.
47:42 Speaker 01 Because a relationship is very different to dating.
47:46 Speaker 00 I thought you were gonna say situation ship.
47:49 Speaker 01 I don't get into those.
47:51 Speaker 00 I don't even know what those are, really.
47:54 Speaker 01 It's a way to just keep things vague.
47:57 Speaker 00 Yeah, toxic non-commitment.
48:00 Speaker 01 Yeah, not my style.
48:02 Speaker 00 Fuckboy shit.
48:03 Speaker 01 Haven't got time for that.
48:05 Speaker 00 Maybe that's a good note to end on.
48:07 Speaker 01 Yeah, haven't got time for fuckboys.
48:10 Speaker 00 No fuckboy shit required. Thank you so much for coming by. I really appreciate it. Thank you for rolling with the random.
48:18 Speaker 01 No, I love it.
48:19 Speaker 00 The randomness.
48:33 Speaker 00 Welcome back. Did you enjoy that?
48:36 Speaker 00 Millie's main takeaway was that I kept saying the devil's where Prada instead of the devil wears Prada.
48:43 Speaker 00 If you spotted that, give yourself a pat on the back. I was in a flow state. I actually noticed when I said it the first time and I was like, I'm gonna keep going. When you're in a hole, stop digging is a phrase that often comes to mind in my world. What does that mean? It just means if you screw up, don't even necessarily apologize, just keep moving. Because sometimes you double back and you think, oh, you know when earlier I said you have a really big nose? I really shouldn't have said that. You're making it worse. Are you okay about the thing I said? Does that make sense? Just move on. Never apologize, never explain. You know, that's true up to a point. Let's get back to the debrief. Millie's written, you didn't manage to cancel Justin this episode.
49:28 Speaker 00 Because I made a joke about was he inappropriate on set? Which, you know, he's my cousin and my friend. So sometimes closeness is expressed through banter. Through cheeky, it's a benign violation. That was the phrase I think Jimmy Carr used. We'll get him canceled eventually. And then I can move in on all those high paying Hollywood gigs. Corcidil came up. The mouthwash, which was formerly a sponsor. We're off, they're not on our sponsorship list anymore. So we don't have to pretend. We don't have to pretend anymore.
50:07 Speaker 00 Right? Does it treat COVID? Studies on the effectiveness of corcidil, which contains, this is the real, stay tuned for this. Clorhexidine against COVID-19 has yielded conflicted and limited results. Some research suggests a temporary reduction viral load in the mouth. But it's generally less effective than some other mouthwash ingredients in laboratory and clinical settings. Like you'd be thinking, you've probably already thought of this, but cetolpredenium chloride or povidone iodine. If you already knew that, forgive me. Some people haven't got the news yet about cetolpredenium chloride. Indeed. Do you have any terms of phrase you are overly reliant on?
50:52 Speaker 00 Millie says, I can name a few. Go on then. Get the bingo card out. Well, that's what the bingo card is for. How's your energy? Yes, people in radio land, legendary, can I be a bit basic? We'll edit that out. Let's unpack that.
51:10 Speaker 00 You're making me sound like a bot. It's not far away. The Loo bot.
51:18 Speaker 00 Did I say people, I've stopped saying people in radio land. There's a point where it seems like it's an affectation. I'm going to retire all of these. I'm going to find different words. And then if you spot one of them, we'll send you a free T-shirt. No?
51:37 Speaker 00 If you spot one— why, we couldn't afford that.
51:41 Speaker 00 If you spot one and you get a tattoo of me, we'll send you a free t-shirt. That seems reasonable. That's it for this week— oh, apart from the credits. This episode was produced by Millie Chu. The researchers were Maan Al-Yazri and Ellie Young. The production manager was Francesca Bassett. The music in this series was by Miguel de Oliveira. The executive producer was Aaron Fellows. This is a Mindhouse Studios production for Spotify.
Previous S7 EP6: Patrick Radden Keefe on the opioid crisis, criminal career longevity and why access is overrated Next S7 EP8: Yorgos Lanthimos discusses working with Emma Stone, suffering for his art, and directing a Bourne movie Page updated October 30, 2026 · transcript and summary are machine-generated