S8 EP9: Mo Gilligan on being quoted by Drake, his surprising shopping addiction, and eating fried chicken for 28 days straight

In the final episode of the season, Louis speaks to comedian, presenter and documentarian Mo Gilligan. Mo tells Louis about how Drake became a fan of his comedy, his surprising shopping addiction, and his experience eating fried chicken for 28 days for his new documentary, Big Chicken: A Fast Food Conspiracy, available to watch on Netflix from 5th August. Warnings: Strong language and adult themes. Links/Attachments: Documentary: Big Chicken: A Fast Food Conspiracy – Netflix (2026) https://www.netflix.com/title/81920949 Documentary: Mo Gilligan: Black, British and Funny – Channel 4 (2020) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt21042684/ Video: Different Types of Grime MCs | Mo Gilligan (2016) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZzVlXCgCCA TV Show: The Lateish Show with Mo Gilligan – Channel 4 (2019 - 2023) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPj_cyCGQqc TV Show: Drunk History – Comedy Central (2015 - 2017) https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLLHHcQWkLnprc91qHlm6zef9qJu1f-aPf TV Show: The Big Narstie Show – Channel 4 (2018 - 2022) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlHfycloeQg Podcast: The Harry Hill Show (2026 - present) https://open.spotify.com/episode/74xrDtkcXeOfVUFMcly9kE?si=1e1d4d0b663945e0 Credits: Producer: Millie Chu  Assistant Producer: Beth Johnstone Audio Mixer: Tom Guest Video Mixer: Scott Edwards Production Manager: Francesca Bassett  Music: Miguel D’Oliveira  Executive Producer: Arron Fellows     A Mindhouse Studios Production for Spotify  www.mindhouse.co.uk  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

• 0:05Speaker 00

  Hello there, welcome back to the Louis Theroux podcast.

• 0:18Speaker 00

  Today, my guest is acclaimed British comedian and internet sensation Mo Gilligan. You may know Mo from his BAFTA-winning chat show, Lateish with Mo Gilligan, or his turn as co-host on the BAFTA-winning Big Nasty Show, which I was once on. That may have helped with the BAFTA. He's got three BAFTAs. You know who else has three BAFTAs? No, I'm not going to say that. He came to fame on the internet with viral sketches on social media, couple of cans,

• 0:47Speaker 00

  which Drake quoted in 2017 and catapulted him to fame. Couple of cans, Julie.

• 0:54Speaker 00

  The Guys in the Club was another one. Different Types of MC was another one. They're all up and available to watch on your nearest social media device. But stand-up has always been the central part of Mo's career. There are three Netflix specials to check out. Momentum, There's Mo to Life, and In the Moment. The Times has dubbed him the funniest man in Britain. Mo is one of the biggest stars on the comedy circuit today. We always love having comedians on.

• 1:22Speaker 00

  I was also impressed with how well he hosted or co-hosted the Big Nasty episode I was on. You could see that, and we talk about this in the chat, how much the format relied on most professionalism and his easy way with people and his focus. And that's something that he brings to everything he does. And candidly, in an era where, you know, racial themes are part of how we look at culture, well, how we try to create a more mature, more sensitive, more equitable media culture. I was looking forward to having a chat about comedy and black comedy specifically,

• 2:03Speaker 00

  which historically in the UK, I think it's been felt has maybe been either underrepresented or in some sense, not quite part of the mainstream to the extent it deserved to be. So that's part of what we talk about. We recorded this conversation in July this year while Mo was promoting his new Netflix documentary, Big Chicken: A Fast Food Conspiracy. In a bold 28-day experiment, Mo tours the UK and US on a fried chicken diet to uncover the industry behind it. It's available from the 5th of August on Netflix. A quick warning, this conversation contains strong language and adult themes. All that, as well as much else besides, coming up.

• 2:52Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Hulu on Disney+. Fans of the podcast will know I'm a big fan of television, especially TV that resonates with me emotionally, that brings out those feelings that are so essential to us as humans. This is especially true when it comes to a show like The Bear with its rather lovely Jeremy Allen White, oh, with those blue eyes, damn him. And the, well, kitchen's a great location anyway, isn't it? Everything's happening in a crucible of activity, but there's also themes of family, perfectionism, the toll that it takes on relationships, the sense of common enterprise

• 3:37Speaker 00

  that's at any moment at risk of being derailed by the jealousies and the feelings that we go through, and the satisfaction of people doing great work against the odds and even transcending the expectations that people put on them, you know? I don't want to do any spoilers, but in The Bear, you see characters, working-class guys, disproving the low expectation or disproving the negativity that's put on them to do amazing things, like it's a very relatable and primal storyline, like makes you think of Rocky, right? That feeling of someone actually out-delivering, doing something amazing and disproving all the doubters, which I've kind of done with my podcast. So if those were the moments that got me, how about you?

• 4:23Speaker 00

  Make sure you check out A Lifetime of Great Stories with Hulu on Disney+. Copyright 2026 Disney and its related entities. 18+, subscription required.

• 4:44Speaker 00

  Did you stay up and watch the football?

• 4:46Speaker 01

  I watched the first half and then after that I was like, I can't, like, it's weird because I love football, that's my little escapism.

• 4:54Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 4:54Speaker 01

  To like shout for 90 minutes and be angry or...

• 4:57Speaker 00

  And that was a big game. This is going to be, this is going to be completely irrelevant when this goes out, but as we speak, England's just beat Mexico 3-2 in, well, it was in the 90 minutes, wasn't it?

• 5:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 5:11Speaker 00

  And people stay, we got up at 3:00 in the morning to watch it.

• 5:14Speaker 01

  I know, it was 2, it started at 2:00 AM. It's weird watching football at that time. Normally I watch boxing at that time.

• 5:19Speaker 00

  How could you stop half-time because it was all hanging on a thread?

• 5:22Speaker 01

  I know, but I was so tired, Louis. It just was like, I love football, but also I'm more of a passionate Arsenal fan, I'm an England fan.

• 5:29Speaker 00

  Oh, no.

• 5:30Speaker 01

  So I'm more club over country.

• 5:32Speaker 00

  Not Arsenal.

• 5:36Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 5:37Speaker 00

  When Arsenal won the, uh, won the prem, you went Bazonkas.

• 5:41Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I think that's different because I go week in, week out. And when I'm away, I watch the games and it can change my mood. If we've won, I'm like, wow, great. And if we've lost, I'm like, ah, okay, back to the drawing board.

• 5:56Speaker 00

  You grew up in Peckham, so what are you doing, supporting a North London club?

• 5:59Speaker 01

  Well, Ian Wright was like the reason why I started supporting Arsenal. So I watched Match of the Day once and it's weird, I lived in an area where like everybody supported a different club. So you had some people supporting Man United, a few people supporting Liverpool, a lot of people supporting Millwall as well. And this was like a stage where I was like, who's, what team do I kind of support? And then I watched Match of the Day and I seen Ian Wright score a goal. And I remember just watching him, he looked so happy, but I remember he had a gold tooth. And I had an uncle who had a gold tooth as well. And I was like, wow, I feel like I know this guy, like, and he scored, he looked so happy. And I was like, I'm supporting him and whatever team he plays for. And that's it, it started from there.

• 6:44Speaker 00

  Really?

• 6:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it started from there. Who's your team? Do you support football?

• 6:48Speaker 00

  QPR, yeah.

• 6:49Speaker 01

  Oh, really?

• 6:50Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 6:51Speaker 01

  Why QPR? Is that where you live or based or what?

• 6:54Speaker 00

  Uh, I live in West London. I basically, I've got three boys and when they were at a certain age, I thought, you know what, I better start taking them to games and be interested in football so that when they start to hate me when they're teenagers, we'll still have something to talk about.

• 7:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, of course.

• 7:08Speaker 00

  And actually, from one documentary maker to another, if you're in a tight spot abroad, football's also useful. If you were, say, in Croatia and you were taken hostage, I'm not sure why you would be, but you'd say, oh, Luka Modric, number one, right? And then you'd get a conversation going and talking about, or indeed, like if you were in Norway, you'd say, Haaland, Erling Haaland, I love him so much and so on and so forth. Yeah. It's a, it's a, it's a fast-track bonding moment, but you need, you have to have one in your pocket for every country that you might be in.

• 7:43Speaker 01

  That and the weather.

• 7:44Speaker 00

  And the weather.

• 7:45Speaker 01

  That, the weather, and I think sometimes travelling, but I think travelling is more for, I don't know, whenever I meet people that are like, really like, maybe they're uber-famous or they are, you know, super wealthy, I feel like travelling is like, oh, when did you touchdown? And they're like, yeah, you know, the jet lag and stuff. I'm like, oh, seven-hour flight, right? He's like, yeah, man, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's such a long flight. But I've always find it's, it's either that, the weather, or sometimes sport. They're like the three things you can just have a conversation about.

• 8:13Speaker 00

  If you're taken hostage in Croatia, though, you saying, I had a tough flight and I'm a bit jet-lagged, isn't going to help.

• 8:21Speaker 01

  But we can talk about the weather.

• 8:23Speaker 00

  Even that might be a struggle.

• 8:25Speaker 01

  You know what I mean?

• 8:25Speaker 00

  You know, bit chilly for this time of year, isn't it? Just shut up.

• 8:30Speaker 00

  Uh, so you've got a documentary coming out, um, which uh, I I very much enjoyed. You you've got various things on Netflix, which we can talk about, your three specials, um. And also a documentary which I found interesting, I don't know where it would have originally gone out, maybe Channel Four, about uh, black British comedy.

• 8:51Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 8:52Speaker 00

  When when did you make that?

• 8:53Speaker 01

  That was Black British and Funny, um, I think that might have aired maybe twenty twenty twenty twenty one, I think, um, on Channel Four.

• 9:01Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 9:02Speaker 01

  Channel Four about ten o'clock.

• 9:03Speaker 00

  It's felt, uh, the subtext to the documentary um, seemed to be that. And maybe it's the, actually not the subtext, it was like explicitly stated that the comedy establishment in the UK sort of has a one in, one out policy with.

• 9:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, most definitely.

• 9:16Speaker 00

  Um, like British comedians, and it's felt for a while, like you were kind of owning the airwaves, weren't you? You had like multiple things on TV. But it's almost as though like, oh, well, we've got a black British comedian, we don't really need another one. That seemed to be what you were suggesting might be. Um, the kind of the unstated rule of British comedy. Can I tell you what I was struck by watching it? Well, many things, but one of them was. Um, as a fellow of sort of older generation, growing up in the seventies and eighties, I'm thinking like Lenny Henry's gonna get a shout out any minute. And it's twenty five minutes before Lenny gets a mention. Richard Blackwood pays tribute to him.

• 9:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:51Speaker 00

  Uh, although in fact, it's actually, Lenny's briefly in frame, because what kicks off the whole documentary is Ricky Gervais saying. You know, why don't we have more like British comedians? You've got in America, they've got so many, David Chappelle, Chris Rock, and so on and so on. Um, and then in the background is a picture of Lenny Henry.

• 10:10Speaker 01

  So it's a scene from Extras, and um, then they kind of all look and there's a picture of of Lenny. Um, and that's was like our, I don't know if you wanna call it like a cold open, almost to the dock. Um, I always had the vision of making this almost as like a passion project as well.

• 10:27Speaker 00

  Mm hmm.

• 10:28Speaker 01

  I was quite fortunate to have my own show, and that was great, and doing stuff on social media, and, you know, you kind of get these nice articles and maybe in a newspaper and. You know, one of them was uh, from the Times that was like funniest guy in Britain. And there was this little in quotation marks who still lives with his mum, but everyone kept saying every time I I was on an interview, this is the funny. The Times have called him the funniest guy in Britain. So um, I think with this piece, it was definitely. I was, I really wanna showcase what black British comedy is, because I know what it is, it's all I've ever done, but I don't know if. Everyone outside of the realm of, I guess, British comedy knows that there's this huge scene that has shows at Hackney Empire, you know, the the O two and.

• 11:13Speaker 01

  I'm quite fortunate enough that there's a whole generation before me that are huge and massive within our scene, and they need to get the light shone on them a little bit as well. Um, it was great, it was definitely one of the the things I got to do that it wasn't really about it going, I guess, viral, because. My success was always based on a viral success of the videos done well, and then someone might say, oh, you know, Drake followed you and this happened where. This really felt like a piece that, fingers crossed, that that might be something that they get to show in schools one day, university.

• 11:45Speaker 00

  So you see yourself as a product of a scene and someone who benefited from a black comedy circuit in the UK.

• 11:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:53Speaker 00

  And that who paved the way somewhat for what you were doing.

• 11:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:56Speaker 00

  Um, and is it that what Lenny wasn't really on that circuit, like he was on a different circuit?

• 12:01Speaker 01

  I wouldn't say he wasn't on that circuit, I just think it was really to shine the light on these amazing comics that I'd got to share the stage with, that everybody. Got to know about people like Slim, who are, who's the first comic that I went to see at a real comedy show. Um, at the Albany Fair in Deptford, and, you know, then sharing the stage with him, but knowing that he'd been in the in the game as such for like thirty years. And uh, you know, Rudy Liquid, there were so many comics and people that I was just like, you know, I remember Slim saying, is that funny? It's funny. You know, it doesn't matter like what you say, when funny is just funny.

• 12:35Speaker 00

  And he talks about, he's he's done Edinburgh, he's done Glastonbury, he's done Reading, he's sold out various big venues, but. Feels maybe he hasn't been given the shot he deserved.

• 12:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, you know, whenever I hear the previous generation, and you see a lot of shows that would come and then they would quickly go. And there is this, even when I got my own show on Channel Four, and it's a show at ten o'clock, it was like, oh, this. This might just be a one time thing, the same with doing the big nasty show, because you're so used to just seeing a show come and that's it, it just. You don't ever see it again. And also, we're also a generation of black British comics that grew up with watching the Royal McCoy. That helped a whole generation in terms of seeing ourselves on the screen, I would wait. Like, I'm talking like, I don't know, sometimes like ten, eleven to watch it as like an eight year old, because my mum would say, hey, like, you you should kind of watch this.

• 13:33Speaker 00

  It was a sketch show on BBC, right?

• 13:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 13:36Speaker 00

  Ninety one, maybe ninety two, something like that.

• 13:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm not sure the time, definitely in the nineties though, yeah. So, yeah, it was really important to to have a piece that shines a light on. A whole generation that came before me, but also this new generation that are kind of benefiting off like those Royal McCoy sketches and the comics we. We got to watch some of the comics we got to perform alongside on stage, you know, I remember doing only probably like. At this time, my my tenth show, and I'm sharing the stage with Richard Blackwood, and that for me was almost like a full circle moment, because I would watch him. On TV on his show, and now I'm ten shows in and I'm on stage with him. That doesn't really happen if you're on the mainstream circuit, you don't do ten gigs and before you know it, you're sharing the stage with, you know, Ricky Gervais, that's.

• 14:23Speaker 01

  Not heard of, but in the black circuit, that's very common. So it was really to give people an understanding of what this scene is and how vibrant it is and. How big these shows are, and it isn't this underground circuit almost like, oh, it's a secret, I've heard about this, this black seat, this, this. I'm like, no, like, people doing shows at the O two, people doing shows at the Indigo, Hammersmith Apollo, we're selling out shows on, you know, on a Saturday, Sunday night, you know. And I think the position I was in of doing mainstream TV was like, oh, I get a ni- a nice opportunity to bring this to light, so everyone gets to understand it and see it. And also, no, I'm not, I'm not the only one, do you know what I mean? It's not just like, oh, well, I've got black guys, it's Mo, and I'm like, no, no, no, guys, it's it's not that, you know?

• 15:08Speaker 00

  Reading through your your story, it was striking that, and this is a theme of that documentary as well, that you kind of got your breakthrough social media, right? And the uh, maybe it wouldn't have happened the way it did, uh, if you'd just been doing the circuit or doing stand up, but the key point was you went viral. At a critical moment, is that fair?

• 15:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think that's fair. Yeah, I'd never disagree with that. I was definitely on the circuit for quite a long time. You know, doing stand up, hosting shows at a a show that used to happen in Central, called The Sunday Show, so that was almost like a variety show, I'd host it, do stand up. You'd have comics, you'd have performers, you'd have like, I remember Ed sharing coming down, this is when he first started, and he used to just have his. Luke Peddle and his guitar, he performed, captivated the crowd, it was one of the coolest moments I can remember hosting that show. Um, but you get people who just singers, poets, uh, musicians.

• 16:01Speaker 00

  Were you keeping down a straight job at the same time?

• 16:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, so I was working in retail at the same time.

• 16:07Speaker 00

  You were working at Joe Malone in Westfield?

• 16:09Speaker 01

  I worked everywhere. Oh, man, Louis, I was in, I worked at Joe Malone, Thomas Pink, the shirt shop.

• 16:15Speaker 00

  Mm hmm. And so then you, and then according to legend, you'd be going off on your break and recording a video.

• 16:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, this was my last retail job, so that was in Levi's.

• 16:24Speaker 00

  And then one in particular goes viral.

• 16:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, so I've done this thing, I used to do this thing on Snapchat where I'd imitate DJs or MCs and put them up, didn't have many followers at the time. And then I had this kind of compilation of different types of MCs, like grime MCs, garage MCs, the person that misses the drop. The, you know, the MC from up north Manchester, you know, is like, yo, blood, don't try and get cheeky, you don't know me. Like, so then I put this compilation of probably like five of these different MCs, probably ten second clips. And that video is about a minute long. I went to the cinema and I put my phone on airplane mode, posted the video, put it on airplane mode. And then I, as I've got gone out to cinema, I've checked it, and the video is being shared everywhere, like my comments, I'd never seen it before.

• 17:13Speaker 01

  You had this cool thing where when you go in, it just says a hundred, hundred likes, hundred followers and a hundred something, it mentions maybe. So every time I kept clicking on it, it just says a hundred, and I was like, oh, wow, this is, and then the next day, it got shared by. GRM Daily, Link Up TV, they had shared it on their platforms, it hit like a million, and then I done like a part two, got more followers. Um, then I done a part three, part four, and then all these followers and people just started really liking the content. Then I wanted to play around with ideas, so because I would start at four, because I was working part time, I would quickly do a video before I started work.

• 17:50Speaker 01

  And then I'd have a break, I'd finish off editing the video, and then I would go into the changing rooms, because there would be a camera, so I couldn't be on my phone. Post it, go back on my shift.

• 18:01Speaker 00

  This is at Levi's?

• 18:02Speaker 01

  This is at Levi, and then we'd have to clean the store, then by nine o'clock, once I put the bins out, I'd catch the one seven two bus, and then that's when I would check. The comments and stuff and whatnot, and watch the video back, um, and that was like an ongoing cycle until probably I left, I'm just posting videos while I was working.

• 18:20Speaker 00

  Were you interacting with the comments or just looking at them?

• 18:22Speaker 01

  I was in definitely, yeah, I'd always interact with them, I'd see how the video was doing, because people would then repost it on different pages. So some different pages, it would get more views, so I'd kind of comment on that page, but then I'd get like, you know, the the DMs as such, and people would say, oh, man, I'm. I'm from Australia and we love your stuff out here, and that was my first taste of people who weren't from the UK that. Really started liking my stuff and gravitating to my stuff, people from like Mexico, oh, man, love this video, me and my friends watch it all the time, and this was social media. Then I started to like enjoy it, play around with different ideas, you know, I had this police officer who was, I I bought this vest.

• 19:02Speaker 01

  Which is like a the kind of vest that police officers have, put the camera and all that stuff, and again, I do these videos all in my room. Do sound effects on the laptop. I'd go on like YouTube and get like police sirens or a car playing. And I'd do a classic police officer. Excuse me, lads, you're you understand why you're being stopped, right? And yeah, so I do that character and I do like the geezer character.

• 19:26Speaker 00

  Feel like that voice turns up quite a lot. Excuse me, lads. All right. Is that anyone specific or that's like a generic person?

• 19:32Speaker 01

  I just all my characters are nine, nine times out of ten, they're all generic. So a lot of people are like.

• 19:37Speaker 00

  All right, so not quite friendly, middle class.

• 19:39Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm sorry, sorry, lads. Listen, you know what? I've stopped you, right? Listen, I understand you. Turn the music off. Turn the music off for me. You understand why I've stopped you? You took the left turn and you took a right turn. Now, um, I'm not stopping you today because you've done anything wrong. If you've got a licence and it's just the same thing you'd hear. But then what I started to realise, Louis, is that when I was doing these videos, people were connecting, like especially with that police officer, they'd be like, yeah, that's what the feds always say. So me having this generic idea of a character and then people being like, oh, my god, that's the, then I would do the different types of police officers. So that became a trend of the police officer that tries to be your friend, the police officer that um stops you for no reason.

• 20:21Speaker 01

  And then the trend of different types was another thing that I then ran with, different types of parents at a school run, different types of guys in the club, different types of girls in the club. I wouldn't call myself an actor, actor, but just play around with range of like, especially the guys in the club stuff. That was always one of my funniest ones I used to enjoy doing because I'd go out and then you'd get people that would comment being like, oh, my god, that's you. That's definitely you. Uh, or you get girls being like, oh, my god, I've met that guy before. You know, the guy who buys you a drink but doesn't leave you alone. Um. The guys who's just very tense in the club and just questioning like, hey, who's that? You know, you know them, yeah? I don't even know that guy still. Yeah, I don't like them. So everybody would know these characters.

• 21:03Speaker 01

  And then, yeah, the characters then just started becoming their own thing and then just ran with that, really.

• 21:09Speaker 00

  On the police thing, had you had interactions with the police?

• 21:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, I remember getting stopped once in the middle of Peckham train station.

• 21:16Speaker 00

  What were they stopping you for?

• 21:17Speaker 01

  So I, I didn't have a train ticket.

• 21:22Speaker 00

  Right.

• 21:22Speaker 01

  So they came and then it was like, okay, you don't have a ticket. And I was like, no, but I was like, I can buy one now or just give me the fine. And they were like, okay, that's fine, but we have to search you. So they searched me in the middle of, if you know, like Peckham train station. This is massive concourse in the middle. And yeah, just searched me in front of everyone going through my bag, what you do, where you're from. And I think they said something like, oh, if you can come back today and pay the fine, I think it must be like at that time, maybe ten or fifteen pounds and it should be fine. But if not, within thirty days, the charge will go up. So I had to then go home. And if you get us, I went home, got like the fifteen pounds, came back and I was like, oh, I'm here to pay the the fine, basically. And they searched me again.

• 22:05Speaker 01

  And I was like, no, I'm here to pay back the fine. And it was like, oh, we, so it was a different officer. And bearing in mind, that's me walking into the train station. I got searched again. That was, I think that was the first time I properly got stopped and searched. Yeah, as a teenager. Yeah, yeah. One time I got pulled over by the police and there were six cars. And this was when I was doing TV and stuff. Never forget that one. At that point, you have to kind of make a joke out of it. Me and a mate of mine, who's my stylist, they followed us for ages. And then they was in an unmarked car, pulled me over. And there was, there probably was about, yeah, six cars and a helicopter.

• 22:42Speaker 00

  Stop it.

• 22:43Speaker 01

  I swear, swear. I got the video as well.

• 22:45Speaker 00

  You were being tailed by a helicopter?

• 22:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, when the helicopter came, it was weird because obviously I hadn't done anything, but I was like, oh, wow, this is a little bit exciting. But also knowing, I'm like, you're really wasting your time. Um, and then there was like, you know, some of the officers were, I could tell there was a bit like, oh, I think I recognize.

• 23:02Speaker 00

  What was it? But what was the cause?

• 23:04Speaker 01

  They said, uh, that the car that I had was, had previously been stolen. And I was like, is it the same car colour or is it the same number plate? Because I said they're two different things. But they never really gave me like an answer. In the end, it was like, oh, it's just not the same car. And once they knew, everyone just scattered. Every, every car was just like, oh, it's not him then. Helicopter gone.

• 23:28Speaker 00

  Did they recognize you?

• 23:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think the officers then started recognizing me, like, oh, I think that's.

• 23:32Speaker 00

  And then does it all change?

• 23:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, massively started changing. But I think there's also like, once they realized that it wasn't me, then it was like, okay, cool. Yeah, it's fine. Yeah. But then a part of me was like, this is a lot. Like, I don't need six cars and a helicopter. But at the same time, it was a little bit like, all right. It feels like GTA when you get five or six stars.

• 23:50Speaker 00

  That's like OJ level, isn't it? That's like, I mean, that's kind of a compliment. After bringing a chopper on this one. Um, it might be that you're most famous for a couple of cans geezer, even though it's a long time ago. Yeah. Tell, tell us about a couple of cans geezer and then how that got picked up by Drake.

• 24:06Speaker 01

  So how that happened is it was just sixteen degrees and it was that weird time in April, it gets sunny, but it's not hot. And I had this funny idea where I was just like, how funny of a of a video would it be if there's this character on the balcony and he's making that it's really hot. But it's not, it's not, it's just sixteen degrees, but the sun's out. I always used to find that funny where people are like, oh, it's really hot. And I'm like, it's just the sun. It's not actually really hot. But I always noticed like geezers and lads would have their T-shirts on.

• 24:33Speaker 00

  And where are you grew up? You're talking about people in Peckham where you grew up?

• 24:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, I just, I just say probably like South London, really. Like, it would always be a thing. So I, that was the idea for the video of, oh, it's lovely. Oh, it's like, it's like a baby. Hey, Julie, Julie. And I do Julie's voice. Yeah, love, what do you want? It's like, yeah, a couple of cans, love. It's lovely. It's like a baby. Um, and that was it. And I put the video up and it just went absolutely insane. And then after that, again, I've done another, I had another idea of, you know, the wife gets him. It's like, I got you a present, love. And this time it's not a T-shirt, it's a string vest. And he goes, lovely, string. Yeah, a string vest. A vest made of string. And then, yeah, it just kind of started gathering momentum. People just, people would say it to me in the street as well. Oh, you're the baby guy. Couple of cans. To this day, people still say it to me.

• 25:18Speaker 00

  It's just a few months after you've done the different kinds of M C bit?

• 25:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, this is around the same time.

• 25:23Speaker 00

  Retail at this point?

• 25:24Speaker 01

  I was still at retail. But yeah, the videos, especially the geezer one, was like, that's the one. Even synonymous to this, like to this day, that's the one that people are like, oh, a couple of cans, baby. You know, it's, it's a great icebreaker. And I think when people see you like, what's happening? Where's the cans? And I'm like, oh, yeah, it's like a baby. Yeah, it's just the, it's the one thing I, I think. I, I went to the Grand Prix yesterday and one guy said to me, he goes, he's Australian and he takes pictures, I think, for the Grand Prix. And he goes, oh, I might have seen you skip with you and Ann Robinson. Oh, we love that in our house. Yeah, Shirley and Lisa, go and get a pizza. Um, yeah, so, yeah, that, that's the character.

• 26:02Speaker 00

  The Ann Robertson skit.

• 26:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:04Speaker 00

  Kind of had me fooled.

• 26:06Speaker 01

  Really?

• 26:06Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 26:07Speaker 01

  You know, we filmed that in one take, you know?

• 26:09Speaker 00

  That's wild. Explain to the people what it is.

• 26:11Speaker 01

  So if anyone's saying, so basically it's countdown with me as basically someone on countdown. And the word that I, that comes up is is blood clot. And.

• 26:22Speaker 00

  The West Indian slang? It's quite rude, isn't it?

• 26:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's very rude, very insulting.

• 26:26Speaker 00

  We probably shouldn't even say it.

• 26:28Speaker 01

  It's all right. Some of the viewers won't know. But then Ann goes.

• 26:31Speaker 00

  It's a sanitary product.

• 26:33Speaker 01

  It is. Yes. I only learned that later on when I was a teenager. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 26:38Speaker 00

  Bum clot is, is bum cloth, toilet paper.

• 26:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 26:42Speaker 00

  Right?

• 26:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 26:43Speaker 00

  Still a bit of side knowledge.

• 26:45Speaker 01

  No, you knew this. Come on, bro. So, um, Ann goes, she goes, that's not a word. I'm not his word. She goes, it's not. And the whole premise is that she loses it. That's it. She's like, it's not a word. And she storms off. And then the whole joke is, you're the weakest link. Goodbye. Now, what's really funny about that sketch is one, we filmed it in one take. That was their lunch break. Um, Ann was great, actually. She, she was like fully involved. She's like, all right, cool, cool, cool. Um, and it was part of my show, the latest show. Um, a lot of people think it was like for comic relief or eight out of ten cats. But it was, I was doing sketches on my own show, basically. And um, I put up the sketch on my socials and

• 27:30Speaker 01

  didn't really get much traction. And I was like, oh, okay, I thought it would get a bit more than this. And then someone probably put it up about three weeks later. And they put it on Twitter and it exploded. It went viral. And yeah, like I've reposted it literally, I don't know, probably say about a month ago. And I think it hit something like six million views. But a lot of people were like, oh, why, oh, why, why is she being so rude to this guy? So a lot of people think it's real.

• 27:54Speaker 00

  Yeah, you could believe that she might be like that. I was on the weakest link once and.

• 27:58Speaker 01

  Really?

• 27:58Speaker 00

  Yeah, about twenty five years ago.

• 28:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 28:02Speaker 00

  I thought, oh, it's all an act. She's really cuddly. She's actually not that cuddly.

• 28:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, she was alright when I met her, you know. She was alright. But I kinda like that. You know when you meet the person that, it's the weakest link, you're meeting Ann Robinson.

• 28:13Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 28:14Speaker 01

  And that, rah, she's like in character, like, you know what I mean?

• 28:17Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, big time.

• 28:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:19Speaker 00

  Strange. So Drake saw your content.

• 28:22Speaker 01

  So what Drake.

• 28:23Speaker 00

  Wasn't that like the tipping point really, like when Drake shared it? Or what did Drake do?

• 28:26Speaker 01

  So he was here for Redditch and Leeds Festival and.

• 28:31Speaker 00

  And he's a famous fan of, they always say this about Drake, yeah, he's a UK culture vulture. Not vulture, sounds negative, but he likes UK music, he's been a big.

• 28:39Speaker 01

  But you know what it is? What I've realised, going to Toronto, they're very tapped in of what's going on here. So I do, my biggest show out of the UK is in Toronto.

• 28:46Speaker 00

  Is it?

• 28:47Speaker 01

  And that's because they know what's going on here. Like, I do like about one thousand five hundred venues in Toronto. So with Drake being so in tune here, it kinda makes sense, because when I've gone there, you know, I go to Toronto and people are like, oh, like, what are you doing here? I'll be in the mall or whatever. And they're like, what are you doing here? And I'm like, I've got a show. Oh, wicked, man. Yeah, we watch your stuff. Oh, cool, we're gonna try.

• 29:06Speaker 00

  Is that a Canadian accent you're doing?

• 29:07Speaker 01

  Nah, I don't wanna butcher it. Do you know what I mean? My Canadian audience, I don't wanna, I don't wanna lose any tickets.

• 29:13Speaker 00

  That was disappointing.

• 29:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:15Speaker 00

  What's that all about?

• 29:16Speaker 01

  But, but no, because their one is like, yo, what's up, my bro? I'm here with my guy, Louis, Louis, Louis Taru.

• 29:22Speaker 00

  Right. So it's like a West Indian Canadian.

• 29:25Speaker 01

  It is, but saying that, there's probably some Canadians that are like, don't really talk like that. Do you know what I mean? Like. But no, what Drake done is when I was at Redditch and Leeds Festival, I was at this party, and he put on his caption, he was like, oh, I'm here at Redditch and Leeds, or something like that, ready to enjoy this, um, duly get me a couple of cans, whether, which was wise to say for my character. And he was with the rapper Giggs. And that was huge, because everyone was like, oh my god, Drake is quoting your thing.

• 29:56Speaker 00

  Right.

• 29:56Speaker 01

  On his Instagram. And he'd already followed me and liked some of the stuff at the time.

• 30:01Speaker 00

  And he's probably got like thirty or forty million on his Instagram.

• 30:04Speaker 01

  Tons of followers. So people was like, oh, who's this guy and stuff. I think it was interesting, because whenever I've done like press, you know, it's, it's quite funny, because like, especially in America, they're like, oh my god, and like, Drake discovered you? Wow. How did that happen? I'm like, that didn't really happen. It helped for the story, don't get me wrong, for the story when I was first starting out. It helped for like the, the PR, if you wanna call it that. But it's kinda like a little bit of a buzzword, if you wanna call it that. Um, because I had other people, like Ian Wright, Rio Ferdinand, um, that would like, like my stuff and comment. So solid crew, that was like the one for me. I was like, rah, so solid.

• 30:42Speaker 00

  The whole crew, there's like thirty of them.

• 30:44Speaker 01

  No, but like Mega Man and like.

• 30:45Speaker 00

  Mega Man did.

• 30:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, Mega Man, Asha D.

• 30:48Speaker 00

  Asha D, Ashley Walters, who went to the same school as you, didn't he?

• 30:50Speaker 01

  Same school, but like him commenting, I was like, rah, oh my, because I grew up watching them and listening to their music as a kid. So I was like, rah, so solid crew. And some of my sketches were kinda like, especially when I do like the garage and grime stuff.

• 31:02Speaker 00

  So Solid Crew paved the way from Battersea, South London. It's away from Peckham, but, um, Ashley was from Peckham, so he brought the Peckham flavour. Twenty One Seconds to Flow.

• 31:13Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 31:13Speaker 00

  That was a big tune.

• 31:14Speaker 01

  Massive tune growing up. Especially that Romeo's verse. Turn up the bassline. I've got twenty one seconds to chat this line in time. First of all, I've got to big up the ladies looking slender and fine.

• 31:28Speaker 00

  Romeo done.

• 31:31Speaker 00

  I cut to the end.

• 31:34Speaker 00

  Romeo done. Have you met Ashley?

• 31:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I met him before. I remember meeting him once, just doing a comedy show, and I was in Birmingham. And, um, he was lovely, man. Then we done a show together called Drunk Histories. And, um, we have to like dress up as like, I can't remember, I think it might have been like King, King George the Fifth or something like that. And, um, we're all sitting there, and I was like, oh, did you learn your lines? And I'll never forget, he said to me, he's like, nah, bro, bad man don't learn lines. And, um.

• 32:02Speaker 00

  He didn't say that.

• 32:03Speaker 01

  He did, he did, and I was.

• 32:04Speaker 00

  Was he joking?

• 32:05Speaker 01

  He was joking, but I don't think he learnt the lines, because you had to kinda learn the lines, but they were almost like, um, what's the word? You kinda mimed them on Drunk Histories.

• 32:14Speaker 00

  Right.

• 32:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:15Speaker 00

  So it doesn't matter that much.

• 32:16Speaker 01

  Yes, yeah, yeah.

• 32:17Speaker 00

  I reckon he learned his lines on adolescence.

• 32:19Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 32:19Speaker 00

  There was nowhere to hide on that. That was all single take.

• 32:22Speaker 01

  But he's like one of my idols. I think just meeting him, where he's come from, what he's doing, um, yeah, I've really got a lot of time for Ashley.

• 32:29Speaker 00

  Yeah, he's definitely had a few scrapes over the years.

• 32:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 32:32Speaker 00

  Did you meet Drake?

• 32:34Speaker 01

  I met Drake twice. Yeah, lovely guy, really, really lovely guy.

• 32:37Speaker 00

  Was this before or after the feud with Kendrick?

• 32:40Speaker 01

  This was before. Yes, this was before. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

• 32:44Speaker 00

  When that blew up, did you reach out and say, it's alright, um, you know, hang in there, this must be tough, I just want you to know I'm thinking of you?

• 32:51Speaker 01

  I don't know. I think for me, I, one, I'm like, I don't know if you're gonna listen to me, Mo Gilligan, in this feud.

• 32:57Speaker 00

  You could DM him on Insta, couldn't you?

• 32:59Speaker 01

  I could, but also I don't feel like Drake's like, oh, yeah, alright, man, appreciate that, man. Um, you kinda gotta let rappers, I guess, figure it out. Do you know what I mean?

• 33:08Speaker 00

  You think so?

• 33:09Speaker 01

  Because then I might be in a lyric, you know what I mean? I was killing them, got advice from my guy, Mo Gilligan. And everyone's like, who's that?

• 33:16Speaker 00

  That, you just came out of that, that was good. Can you freestyle?

• 33:20Speaker 01

  I feel like I can. And then when it gets serious, I just kinda crumble a little bit, but I do like, in my car.

• 33:26Speaker 00

  Freestyle a rap about what's happening now. Chilling in the studio with the man Louis.

• 33:31Speaker 01

  I'm in a podcast.

• 33:31Speaker 00

  We're getting real chewy.

• 33:32Speaker 01

  Ooh, we're got, we're about to get chewy. And with man like Faru, first name Louis.

• 33:40Speaker 01

  Doing a doc, going overseas. He's done docs in Asia, none in the West Indies.

• 33:50Speaker 00

  On paper, that would look good, but you weren't riding a beast.

• 33:53Speaker 01

  I know, because you put me under pressure, that's why, man. In my head, I was, that's what I said, it was like, in my head, I had something, but then I was like, I don't know, you know? I don't know.

• 34:02Speaker 00

  It's, once you're on the spot, it's hard.

• 34:04Speaker 01

  It's really hard. Yeah, but in the car.

• 34:06Speaker 00

  In the front room, fine, all day.

• 34:08Speaker 01

  Flowing, man, in the car. Because I remember you had.

• 34:11Speaker 00

  Killing Owen Gilligan was so promising.

• 34:13Speaker 01

  I know. That's what I mean. I'm on the podcast with Louis Faru, and we're killing them. It's Louis, we got Mo Gilligan, doing docs, making series, it's really fun. We ain't got much time, twenty one seconds, this podcast might be done. Go!

• 34:31Speaker 00

  Ah, you did it so daintily. That's brilliant. Um, yeah, stay out of rap beefs. I think your intervention could, could easily have, um, you don't wanna be roped into that.

• 34:43Speaker 01

  I just don't think anyone wants any advice from a comic. A lot of people don't take comics very seriously anyway.

• 34:48Speaker 00

  I asked Sharon about the, um, about the Kendrick, uh, Drake beef, and he's like, I'm not even touching that.

• 34:54Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 34:55Speaker 00

  Um.

• 34:56Speaker 01

  It's hard, I think, for musicians.

• 34:57Speaker 00

  Same with Little Sims, you just didn't say anything.

• 34:59Speaker 01

  Do you find like a lot of musicians are in awe of you when they meet you?

• 35:04Speaker 00

  Um, well, I love that question. No, definitely not.

• 35:08Speaker 01

  You don't think so?

• 35:08Speaker 00

  Do you find that?

• 35:09Speaker 01

  No, I don't think they're in awe of me, because I think a lot of them, as a comic, you know, I realised when I done the Brits, everyone was quite scared when I'd go to their table. It was like, oh, is he gonna get me? Is he gonna embarrass me? And they're on the table, you know, with their record executives and their friends, and that's, that's like their place, that's.

• 35:27Speaker 00

  Really?

• 35:28Speaker 01

  All musicians.

• 35:28Speaker 00

  Like you're gonna deliver a sick burn?

• 35:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, because you've got to remember, if this is at the Brits, that might be your biggest opportunity. Some people, it's their first time ever there. And you've got me as a comic, you're like, oh god, is he coming over here? Um, and also there is also a connection where you're like, I know how big this is for you and for me, and I'm not here to really, I don't know, I don't wanna embarrass the man them, I don't wanna do that. Do you know what I mean? This is my moment as well as it's yours.

• 35:53Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 35:54Speaker 01

  So, yeah, I always feel like, I'm quite fortunate as a comic, that I have a really nice connection with the musicians and with music in general. But I feel like people are very much, especially with yourself, because you're so, when it comes to pop culture, like, you're very cool as well, Louis, do you know what I mean?

• 36:09Speaker 00

  Oh.

• 36:10Speaker 01

  You're very cool.

• 36:11Speaker 00

  Don't know about that.

• 36:12Speaker 01

  You know this, man. Come on, don't do this, man.

• 36:14Speaker 00

  No, come on, stop it. You're trying, you're flattering me and I'm.

• 36:17Speaker 01

  No, but you, come on, I see people, I see people being like, when you done the Manosphere, and it was like, oh, Louis, man, he's, this guy's hot, man. Like, the girl then were like, on to you.

• 36:27Speaker 00

  Stop it. I haven't even seen, you're just making things up now. That's nonsense. I definitely haven't seen that.

• 36:33Speaker 01

  Louis, it's alright, man. The girl then were feeling Louis, man.

• 36:36Speaker 00

  Stop it. Send me, send me some photo, uh, screen grabs. Give me the evidence.

• 36:56Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Claude. I have Claude on my phone. It's an AI that helps out with projects, gives me advice. I asked it for the best episodes of the Louis Theroux podcast. It came back very quickly, mentioning Adam Buxton, John Wilson, Marco Pierre-White, all solid episodes. Nice to have Claude as a listener. Claude is the AI for minds that don't stop at good enough. It's the collaborator that actually understands your entire workflow and thinks with you, whether you're debugging code at midnight, not something I do very often, but you might, or strategising your next business move, I definitely do that. Claude extends your thinking to tackle the problems that matter. Claude's been helpful for me. You know, sometimes you just need like a screen grab,

• 37:41Speaker 00

  like a metaphorical one, a sense of what the landscape looks like. What's the key part of the narrative? You know, Steve Coogan, what are the key episodes? What are the parts of his story that I need to dig into? The landmarks on the journey? And it'll give you citations, you can click through to the relevant websites, magazine articles, stories, podcasts. And like that, in the blink of an eye, you have all the information at your fingertips. For problems worth solving, get started with Claude at claude.ai/theroux. That's claude.ai/theroux. And check out Claude Pro, which includes all of the features mentioned in today's episode.

• 38:31Speaker 00

  On the subject of comedy, and especially US comedy, did you watch the Kevin Hart roast?

• 38:36Speaker 01

  I didn't watch the, I haven't watched it yet, I've not seen it.

• 38:39Speaker 00

  Why not?

• 38:40Speaker 01

  Because I don't really watch a lot of comedy. So like-

• 38:42Speaker 00

  You heard about it?

• 38:43Speaker 01

  I heard about it.

• 38:44Speaker 00

  It was kind of extraordinary.

• 38:46Speaker 01

  I think Rosado, Rose are like the most extreme when it comes to comedy.

• 38:50Speaker 00

  It was the aristocracy, it was the absolute creme de la creme of American comedy, and especially black comedy, although it was hosted by a white comedian, Shane Gillis. But it was obviously Kevin Hart was there, and then Cat Williams. Did you hear about the Cat Williams bit?

• 39:05Speaker 01

  No.

• 39:06Speaker 00

  Did you not digest all of this?

• 39:07Speaker 01

  I don't, because for me, when I'm at home, the one thing I probably don't watch is comedy, because then I'm gonna start breaking it down of, okay, this and that, and this delivery, and what about the nuances of this, or the nuances of that. So for me, I watch, one, I love wildlife, wildlife is my thing. I like something, you know, I need things that detach me from-

• 39:29Speaker 00

  That's not funny at all, is it?

• 39:30Speaker 01

  No, but that's what I don't want. I don't want the funny, because I find the fun, I'm looking for the funny every day.

• 39:35Speaker 00

  Right. So you need a break from the funny.

• 39:37Speaker 01

  Yeah. And also, it's like, as a comic, I'm always looking at it, trying to break it down and break it apart. And it's too much, it's too much for me to handle. So I need to watch the thing that is pure escapism. Do you know what I mean? Like, I'll watch a documentary on, I don't know, like dolphins or something, do you know what I mean? And I just find it mad interesting and being like, rah.

• 39:57Speaker 00

  Yes, everyone likes those. Yeah, yeah, yeah. One of the striking things in the Black British and Funny documentary was the fact that it's alleged that in the 2000s, there was like a step back. And without getting too deep in the weeds on it, there's a comedian, Dane Baptiste-

• 40:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 40:15Speaker 00

  -who says that if someone comes up to him and says, "Boo-yo, Kasha, as soon as you say it, I fucking hate you."

• 40:24Speaker 00

  Right?

• 40:26Speaker 00

  And I was just struck that there was almost a sense like, oh, we've sort of arrived at a place where we can do edgy racial comedy. There was also Keith Lemon and Little Britain are also mentioned, but the Ali G Show in particular. Any reflections on that?

• 40:42Speaker 01

  It's funny, like, watching old stuff back, because I think whenever I watch stuff like that back now, I'm like, rah, is that what was on TV like that? And it was very normalised, do you know what I mean? So, and also hearing other people's experiences. I remember Richard Blackwood told me his experience of being successful at that time. And there's something that he says about, about Ali G, where they had made some reference to him in the Tabloid papers because of Ali G. And you realise that, oh, wow, like, as much as that stuff was very normalised, some of it was feeling like you're being laughed

• 41:25Speaker 01

  at, not laughed with. So that realisation, once you get a bit older, and how, I guess, comedy has changed a little bit, is like, yeah, like, we're no longer being laughed at, we're now being laughed with.

• 41:36Speaker 00

  It's a fine line, isn't it? Because I think at the time, it was like, well, he's not like Sacha Baron Cohen, who plays Ali G, he's not darkening his skin, but he's playing an ambiguous character, like, is Ali G, what is Ali G's ethnicity? It's never really made clear, is it?

• 41:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:53Speaker 00

  And so it felt like it kind of, people gave it a pass, or some people gave it a pass at the time, feeling like, oh, no, I think he's making fun of a white guy, suburban white guy, who'd like to think he's black, but it all got a little bit blurry.

• 42:06Speaker 01

  Well, yeah, because, you know, when I would watch it, you're like, oh, it's this kid from Stains that likes hip hop and jungle. And, you know, you're talking like the yellow Max Power car and all that kind of stuff. But I guess it's like, how that gets digested into your friend at work, coming up to you, being like, "I is not black." You're like, "What are you doing? We're in the workplace. What gave you the comfortability to go and tell me that?" Do you know what I mean? But then I think also, when I look back at television at that time, it was so, because now you have social media. So if, I feel like if there was a character like that now, people are like, oh, this character is this person, and he's from here. And you get this easier breakdown, whereas back then you did, and

• 42:50Speaker 01

  you're like, comes on our screens, I don't really know much about this person that plays the character or the comedian. There wasn't podcasts, so you didn't get to see a breakdown of comic tell you why they done a couple of cans that didn't exist. And where they got the inspiration from, it was just, it's on TV, it's blowing up. And, you know, I feel like back then, when it blows up, it's, you know, you can now dress up as the character. It becomes almost like an outfit. People can dress up as Halloween characters, do you know what I mean? Which I think is a little bit different now, you know?

• 43:26Speaker 00

  It's evident that you have to, or maybe feel you have to, pick your way quite carefully, like, maybe in a way that a white comedian might not. You talk about pressure, you can't slip up, you have to represent your community properly.

• 43:41Speaker 01

  A hundred percent. I say that a lot. Like, and I kind of know that, I think I've always known that, coming into this space, it's not occupied by a lot of people that are from where I'm from. That's gonna come with a certain amount of pressure. You know, you've got to represent your community and where you're from, but also, that community wants to be represented right. But also knowing that you're not gonna please everyone in doing that. There's a part of me that wants to feel free and be myself. And I felt like that when I first done The Big Nasty Show, because it was, you know, just me and Nasty, and it was just kind of do whatever you want. So if I was with David Schwimmer, and I'm like, go on, man, look in the camera and tell them suck their mum. Like, that

• 44:22Speaker 01

  stuff felt really fun and free. But then also, you had, you know, you've got to listen to the constructive criticism of some people saying, "Yeah, but bro, like, we ain't gotta do it like that." You know what I mean?

• 44:35Speaker 00

  Your mum is quite rude, isn't it?

• 44:36Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, it's very, very rude, very, very rude. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 44:40Speaker 00

  So why is that okay?

• 44:41Speaker 01

  I guess it's like, one, you want to bring where you're from and your culture, and feel like it's relatable to people that are watching TV, being like, rah, this is, I don't think I'd see, you know, Big Nasty and Mo Gilligan on my TV, let alone them having the guests that they have, and it feel like a free show where, I always used to love that show, because people came into our world-

• 45:02Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 45:02Speaker 01

  -and had to get on board. And if you didn't, you would stand out almost, do you know what I mean?

• 45:07Speaker 00

  Did you feel like you were in control?

• 45:09Speaker 01

  I think, yeah, majorly.

• 45:10Speaker 00

  Or in control enough, at least?

• 45:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'd say in control enough, because we had a structure of the show, we had guests on the show, we would, you know, we'd have briefings and bios and who was gonna come on. But then I think what made the show what it was, was that it sometimes was a bit loose around the edges. Like, I remember you coming on Eating Gummies, we didn't expect that to happen. But at the same time, I felt like there was an audience that was like, rah, like, these lot got Louis Theroux on here eating gummies?

• 45:36Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 45:37Speaker 01

  Like CBD gummies, like, no one had ever really seen that on television. But also, there's a constructive criticism that comes of your community, and they're like, "Yeah, but guys, we don't want this. We kind of want it now a bit, a bit polished, a bit", do you know what I mean? So I think you have to look at both sides of that pressure.

• 45:57Speaker 00

  It had the chaotic energy that was brought by Big Nasty, a grime artist, just a sort of force of nature, liable to say or do anything.

• 46:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 46:06Speaker 00

  I think it was an open secret that he was often quite high during taping?

• 46:09Speaker 01

  I can't confirm nor deny this. Can't confirm nor deny.

• 46:12Speaker 00

  No one would be wildly surprised if that were the case.

• 46:15Speaker 01

  I can't confirm nor deny this one, Louis, I'm so sorry.

• 46:17Speaker 00

  And then you were kind of the disciplined one, you were keeping things on track. I remember one of my takeaways was like, it's called The Big Nasty Show, but Mo's kind of keeping the trains running on time, like-

• 46:28Speaker 01

  But I think what, what helped with the show, it was almost like- I'm driving the car, but Nasty's the passenger that's playing the music, eating the snacks and having a fun time. And I think it needed that, it needed the balance. You needed Nasty to be.

• 46:42Speaker 00

  It was the yin and the yang, yeah, absolutely. He brought the kind of the X factor, whatever that was.

• 46:47Speaker 01

  But that wasn't ever a planned thing. We just realised that that was what worked for the show. You know, we need Nasty to be, like, sometimes I'd have questions and he'd be like, hey, listen, forget that. Boom, I'm gonna ask you this. And I needed that and he needed that because Nasty comes from music. He came from doing Uncle Pain, which the audience loved. So now he's on this show and you. You know, Nasty was never gonna be the person like, okay, cool, let me ask you that time when you've done this. He was like, I wanna be loose, I wanna ask you this, I wanna ask you that. You know what, let's, let's go old school, let's do a quick. A quick role play, like, you know, we've got Natalie Cassidy on, we're gonna go and do an EastEnders sketch. You needed him to be that loose, but you also needed me to be like, all right, Nasty, if we're gonna do it, you go over there, I go over there.

• 47:31Speaker 01

  So it gave the audience this, ah, okay, cool, this looks loose, but there was a sense of structure, it needed, it needed that. Um, I needed it as well because I'd never done TV before. So it was a perfect way to be the person that's like. Kind of anchoring it, but I'm like, some of the things Nasty done was so funny, so funny, like, I'm talking. Belly laughter, which you get, you got, that was captured on TV and it was only until, I think we were probably three seasons in. And you start realising what we were doing and you're like, oh, okay, like, this is how this show works, this is what people like of the show. And what also people would, you know, come up to me and be like, I love your show, man. You know, when meeting people in prisons.

• 48:14Speaker 01

  And they were like, bro, everyone in the prison wakes up and watches this show. Like, we all wait and watch this show. I've met people recent, not, I say recently, but in the last couple of years, it's like, ah, bro, you guys got me through prison, like, watching your show. And it helped me because when I didn't got my own show, I had an idea of the show that I wanted to do. I couldn't replicate the same show. I was like, I've got a different idea for my show that's gonna separate our shows, you know. But again, it comes with a lot of pressure, Louis, like, you know, you're representing the whole community, you know, you're gonna get people that are. Gonna say hurtful things to you online.

• 48:48Speaker 00

  Have you ever done something where you're like, I slipped up or I shouldn't have. Well, I'm slightly also in my head is the fact that you've got a stand-up special where you talk about being asked to dress up as a chicken.

• 48:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:58Speaker 00

  And you tell, and the producer's like, okay, you could just put on the chicken costume, okay? And then you're, you're like, I don't think I wanna do that. Presumably because you think it's embarrassing.

• 49:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:08Speaker 00

  And then you call your agent and they cancel it. Because it's a fine line between acquiescing in a bit, like being able to laugh at yourself and say, like, no, okay, fine, why not, okay. Because you don't wanna be precious in front of yourself, but you also don't wanna be mugged off.

• 49:21Speaker 01

  But also, you know, when you get into this space, you wanna do things that make you feel comfortable and. I, I guess like when I got into, I got to do stand-up and I got to do comedy. If it wasn't in the brief before and almost like, hey, we've got this chicken suit, do you wanna chuck this on to be quite a laugh? It goes back to Ali G thing a little bit, where I'm just like, I don't think people are gonna be laughing with me at this one. Do you know what I mean? I just don't.

• 49:46Speaker 00

  Was that a real situation?

• 49:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's a real situation, yeah.

• 49:49Speaker 00

  Which, was that on your show?

• 49:50Speaker 01

  I can't say what show it was. Yeah, I can't say that. But it was enough that I was like, uh, I'm just not feeling this. I'm just not feeling this at all.

• 49:59Speaker 00

  Was there, there was no malice in it, right?

• 50:01Speaker 01

  No, it wasn't malice, but I guess it's that thing where once, sometimes as a young black man in this space. You feel like if you say no, you then might get the difficult card of like, ah, it's very difficult, very hard to work with. Now, I only know that because it's stuff that I've heard before from other people that have been in this space. If I say no, I might be, I might be difficult. They might not even invite me back again. I'm not trying to be a diva. But I do wanna have ownership of what I do and how I do it. You have to stand up in what you believe in. And you're like, my morals is telling me I don't wanna do that because I'm gonna be laughed at, I don't wanna be laughed at. I'm representing almost a whole community.

• 50:42Speaker 01

  And they're gonna be the ones who sit there and be like, oh, bro, what are you doing, man? That's just not it. Why are you wearing a chicken suit? You know?

• 50:49Speaker 00

  Such a fine line.

• 50:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:51Speaker 00

  I wore like a badger suit, I think, on Harry Hill's podcast, badger or ferret or something. I was like.

• 50:59Speaker 00

  I'm fifty-six years old, you know, like, do I, I've, I've have some pretensions to being a serious broadcaster, but then. They said, well, you don't have to wear it, but if, if you don't, uh, the only other person who's refused is Deborah Meaden. And we will put on a sign saying Louis Theroux refused to wear the badger outfit or whatever. So I was like, all right then.

• 51:20Speaker 01

  Did you regret it?

• 51:21Speaker 00

  I don't, I don't think I regretted it, but I looked quite uncomfortable in the publicity pictures.

• 51:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 51:26Speaker 00

  Not because I was unhappy, but it just, it just didn't really fit that well.

• 51:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 51:30Speaker 00

  And I think, and I was like, I think I'm in on the joke. I think I am, but I'm not a hundred percent sure.

• 51:35Speaker 01

  Yeah. But then I think that's also like, when you think of the history of black comedy, quirkiness is not something that. People relate to with black comedy, especially black British comedy. Um, I guess things might have changed for a di- a different generation with social media and stuff, but, you know. Being a quirky comic and being like, well, I'm just gonna, you know, chuck on this fox suit. When you're a black comic and you're doing shows, especially if you start off in the black circuit. You're looking for big laughs, like, they're the laughs that you are writing for. And you're like, I need the big laugh, I need the hand claps, I need the.

• 52:15Speaker 01

  Hitting the friends, I need the, ah. So we're always writing for big laughs. We're not writing for, hmm, this will get a chuckle. Did, did you get it? Did you, it was a, it was, did you get the pun in that? Um, we're always writing for big laughs. And I think that's also down to, you know, our audience, they're looking for the escapism. With our comedy, you know, it's, I've got my hair done, got babysitter for the kids, this is a big show. And you have to deliver, you get ten minutes. Most of the time, most of us comics are going over because. There isn't really a time constraint. It's just like, cool, if he's smashing, he's on fire, you're gonna stay on stage.

• 52:55Speaker 01

  Like, it's only until I probably do more mainstream shows, it was, if I go over that five or ten, they're like, you know, the guy who runs the show, like. Sorry, mate, you've got, you've got to come off now, regardless of how, how good you are. Doesn't, it's not the same in the black comedy circuit. It's like, he's smashing it, let him kill. Do you know what I mean? Um, but we're not competing for small laughs, we're competing for big laughs in big rooms.

• 53:16Speaker 00

  It's also striking that you think of the legends of black American comedy, Richard Pryor, Eddie Murphy. They're very funny, but actually, you got, you get enormous, Dave Chappelle as well, enormous sense of integrity and self-respect that comes from them. One of the things in the, in the, in the, in the Kevin Hart roast is that Cat Williams is giving Kevin Hart a hard time for what he sees as pandering. Like excessively, um, sort of playing a, a, a certain archetype of someone who's sort of ingratiating.

• 53:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:48Speaker 00

  Cat Williams kind of personifies this sort of pimpish, have you seen much of Cat Williams?

• 53:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 53:53Speaker 00

  You know what I'm talking about. He's, he, he like, even though he's like a five feet tall, but he's got his hat.

• 53:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, very stylish.

• 53:59Speaker 00

  He's extremely stylish and his whole thing is like, I'm like God out here, like, you pay respect to me.

• 54:05Speaker 01

  But it's the same in the black comedy circuit, especially in the UK. It's like, you can't go on stage looking raggedy.

• 54:11Speaker 00

  No.

• 54:11Speaker 01

  That can affect your whole performance because your audience are looking at you like, right, you look a bit dusty. You know, some comics will, like, you think of your outfit sometimes before your material, you know.

• 54:20Speaker 00

  Let's talk about your shoes.

• 54:22Speaker 01

  Yeah. The ones I've got now?

• 54:24Speaker 00

  No.

• 54:25Speaker 01

  Which ones?

• 54:25Speaker 00

  The ones in the room that you have that's specially dedicated to shoes.

• 54:33Speaker 00

  Right? You're on record as saying you, you, at one time you were buying eight pairs a month. Is that true? You've got a sneaker room.

• 54:43Speaker 01

  That one got me, you know, Louis, because I was like, what, what's on my shoes now?

• 54:49Speaker 01

  Um, yeah, so look, I'll be honest, once I started doing well for myself, uh, that was like my thing. And I used to be into trainers way before, you know, any of the success happened.

• 55:00Speaker 00

  How many do you have?

• 55:02Speaker 01

  I've cut down a bit now, but I think I'm on about one eighty.

• 55:05Speaker 00

  You had four hundred at one time, I think.

• 55:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, I've cut a lot of them down.

• 55:08Speaker 00

  What was the most you ever had?

• 55:09Speaker 01

  Probably about four hundred.

• 55:10Speaker 00

  Four hundred pairs?

• 55:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 55:12Speaker 00

  Eight hundred shoes?

• 55:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:16Speaker 00

  It's a lot.

• 55:17Speaker 01

  It's a lot. Like, because I think at that time, that was more of an obsession. Because what happens-

• 55:22Speaker 00

  Sounds like an illness.

• 55:23Speaker 01

  No, it wa- no, it- do you really- the reason why it's an obsession, right? Because you're like, I want a pair to- to have away, which is they stay in the cupboard and no one sees them or in the attic. I've got a pair on display, maybe, then I've got a pair that I'll wear. So you're- you're buying three pairs of the same shoe.

• 55:38Speaker 00

  That's weird.

• 55:38Speaker 01

  But it's a limited shoe, do you know what I mean? Because sometimes-

• 55:41Speaker 00

  How much is each pair costing?

• 55:42Speaker 01

  I would say average, around that time, I'm saying like two hundred pounds a pair. But now the prices have skyrocketed.

• 55:51Speaker 00

  Doesn't that feel like the system's got you thinking you need these things and- and- and you don't?

• 55:56Speaker 01

  No, because I really do like trainers. Like, some of them, it might be a childhood pair trainers I've always wanted. Some of them-

• 56:05Speaker 00

  Vintage ones or just a reissue?

• 56:07Speaker 01

  I would say vintage. It's almost like, I remember having those when I was younger and then you're like, oh, they're back out again. Some of them are exclusive, some of them are, they just go nice with outfits, so you're wanting them now in a few different colours.

• 56:18Speaker 00

  Stop it.

• 56:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. And the minute I- I started doing alright for myself, it was like, finally I can get the ones that I want. And that was when it was a real obsession. I think now I've just got the ones I really like and a lot of them I've just given away.

• 56:32Speaker 00

  Really?

• 56:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 56:33Speaker 00

  The ones that you put in a box, uh, and lay down like a wine, like a fine wine, when do you go back to those? Do those get given-

• 56:42Speaker 01

  You ki- you kind of don't, unless they're like, become like majorly exclusive, do you know what I mean? If they become like a dead stock exclusive pair, then you're like, just don't touch them, because they go up in value.

• 56:54Speaker 00

  And you pass them down to your children?

• 56:56Speaker 01

  No, because they might not fit, it might not be their size. But again, there's like shoes that are going for like thousands of pounds.

• 57:04Speaker 00

  Millie's opened the door. We haven't even talked about Big Chicken.

• 57:08Speaker 01

  Oh, okay.

• 57:09Speaker 00

  Big Chicken's your documentary coming up on Netflix.

• 57:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:14Speaker 00

  The premise is that you're exploring the world of chicken fast food and as an experiment, you're eating it three times a day for twenty eight days.

• 57:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:22Speaker 00

  Surprise, surprise, your health suffers. And not just your health, but your mental health, right? You look like you're- you're breaking- breaking up, like you-

• 57:30Speaker 01

  Oh, broke down.

• 57:31Speaker 00

  What- what was going on?

• 57:32Speaker 01

  It was probably the best way to describe it, it was fight or flight, that's probably the best way. I'll be honest, when I was eating the food, probably the first two days, I was like, this is gonna be a breeze. And I- I was quite naive in thinking that. Um, I didn't do any research on the food and what's in it and how it's gonna make me feel.

• 57:51Speaker 00

  And you say that you're- you actually in general, in your normal life, would eat quite a lot of chicken.

• 57:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 57:56Speaker 00

  Fried chicken specifically.

• 57:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, because fried chicken, I was like, I know it's always gonna be tasty, you can get chicken anywhere. But no, I think honestly speaking, it was the- the hardest thing I think I've ever done because the food tasted great. And I'm eating some of the food in America as well. And it felt like at first, I was like, this will- this will be a breeze, this won't be as hard. But mentally, um, I could feel my mood changing, I was becoming more snappier, um, less patient, brain fog, like-

• 58:26Speaker 00

  Really?

• 58:26Speaker 01

  As a comic, I feel like I'm quite sharp. You're kind of built that way to be a comic, to be like, again, you're looking for the funny and stuff. But the funny just didn't exist in, I couldn't find anything that was funny. And that's the silly things, normal things I would see. But then when it, probably halfway in, and I guess as well for the crew, I think they could see it more in me than I could see it.

• 58:50Speaker 00

  Really?

• 58:50Speaker 01

  And they would say like, are you alright? And I'm like, yeah, but they're like, you just don't seem like your normal self.

• 58:55Speaker 00

  Well, you recorded little sort of video diaries in your room, and it- and, um, it was clear that you were struggling.

• 59:03Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, yeah, really struggling. There's one, I had a few times I broke down, but like, I wanted to just persevere and get to the end. I didn't, it didn't make sense stopping, because I'm like, why would I stop halfway through if it makes me feel like this? Um, and also I just didn't know, like, when you do a project like this, that, like, it's only till some of the crew was like, oh, you know, like, some people don't really go through it like the way you're going through it, you know? And what do you mean? It's like, yeah, they might, they might go for a run or they pretend to eat the food and not eating it.

• 59:33Speaker 00

  It has been known to happen.

• 59:34Speaker 01

  And I'm like, I gotta, I gotta do the thing, you know?

• 59:37Speaker 00

  Yeah, good for you, you committed to it.

• 59:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 59:40Speaker 00

  Um, I think we're pretty good. Thanks for coming by, Mo. What does the future hold? We've got the Big Chicken doc dropping on Netflix any minute, if it isn't already out.

• 59:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 59:49Speaker 00

  What else is going on?

• 59:51Speaker 01

  Just touring, world tour now.

• 59:52Speaker 00

  Hollywood?

• 59:54Speaker 01

  Most definitely, yeah. Yeah, I think-

• 59:56Speaker 00

  You've got to move out there.

• 59:57Speaker 01

  I don't know, I just don't know if you need to move though. They film so much stuff here or in Ireland now or-

• 1:00:02Speaker 00

  Did you see Druski's bit about black British actors taking American jobs?

• 1:00:06Speaker 01

  Funny, I thought it was so funny.

• 1:00:08Speaker 00

  You saw guys being in the hood at time, oh man, I'm gonna, and then, and then they break, was that okay? It's like very posh British, black British actors.

• 1:00:16Speaker 01

  As- as- as comedy, you've got to laugh at it. You know, if you're an actor being like, no, nah, bro, we don't speak like that. Like, we know we don't speak like that.

• 1:00:24Speaker 00

  Well, there's a couple of like British actors who- who probably do speak a bit like that.

• 1:00:27Speaker 01

  But then also, it's like, sometimes you have your kind of, you've got your TV PR voice, do you know what I mean?

• 1:00:32Speaker 00

  Hmm.

• 1:00:32Speaker 01

  Like, if you're on Graham Norton's show, or you know Jonathan Ross-

• 1:00:36Speaker 00

  Or the Louis Theroux podcast.

• 1:00:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, you can't just be like, yeah, you know what I'm saying, no, because you're- you're mandem.

• 1:00:41Speaker 00

  Oh, man.

• 1:00:42Speaker 01

  Louis, come on, you know this man.

• 1:00:43Speaker 00

  Did you hear that, Millie?

• 1:00:44Speaker 01

  You're trying to do the whole like, I don't know if I am. You, you're mandem, Louis, so it's different way with you. But when it's like, you know, big BBC or ITV, and you're sitting next to a bunch of, you know, other stars, and they're like, so tell me, what was that like making that track? You're like, yeah, I really had a great time making it, it was fantastic, it was wonderful. But I guess like here, because you're mandem, we'd be like, hey Louis, no, like, it was a dorky experience, I can't lie. Like, we could really, like, yeah, you're- you're mandem, Louis, that's the difference, but-

• 1:01:12Speaker 00

  You heard that, everyone. That's official, yeah. Got to do it for the mandem. Keep up the good work, Mo. Thank you for coming by.

• 1:01:18Speaker 01

  Thank you so much, Louis. Appreciate you each and every time, man.

• 1:01:33Speaker 00

  And we're back. Big thank you to Mo. We didn't get to this, Mo isn't short for Mohammed, which I thought it might be. It's a common abbreviation of that name. It's short for Mosiah.

• 1:01:47Speaker 00

  Which was Marcus Garvey's middle name. Marcus Garvey, the, uh, Pan-Africanist leader of the early twentieth century. Marcus Mosiah Garvey. It's also a name in the Book of Mormon. I'm not sure if that connects or not. Um, Mo's not Mormon. I don't think Marcus Garvey was Mormon. It remains a bit of a mystery. Do check out Mo's new doc, Big Chicken, A Fast Food Conspiracy, on Netflix from the fifth of August.

• 1:02:19Speaker 00

  Is it a conflict of interest that a company I co-founded helped make the documentary? Let us know in the comments. There was a reference in the conversation about me dressing up as a badger. Fact check, it was a hamster. If you want to see the Harry Hill episode in which I do dress up as the hamster, it's up on YouTube.

• 1:02:40Speaker 00

  People found it amusing. Someone who'd never made a comment about my podcast said, I loved you on the, um, Harry Hill podcast. I said, I didn't make that podcast. I said with some asperity. If you're gonna give me a compliment, I'd rather hear it about something I've done. That's a little note, like, uh, any compliment I guess is good, but I'd rather have the right compliment. I'm at that stage of life. You've seen the darker side of Louis Theroux now.

• 1:03:10Speaker 00

  That the onion-skinned sensitivity. That's not a good place to land for that's it for this week.

• 1:03:20Speaker 00

  All compliments are welcome. And I'm also on the Theo Von podcast, the Ramesh Ranganathan podcast, I've been on the Joe Rogan podcast. Uh, find me a podcast I haven't been on.

• 1:03:34Speaker 02

  But people should just listen to the back catalogue of-

• 1:03:36Speaker 00

  Off Menu.

• 1:03:37Speaker 02

  This podcast.

• 1:03:38Speaker 00

  Uh, Dish, uh, Annie Mac's podcast. Or you could just listen to the Louis Theroux podcast.

• 1:03:47Speaker 00

  But why would you do that? That's it for this week, apart from the credits. The producer was Millie Chu, the assistant producer was Beth Johnston. The production manager was Francesca Bassett. The music in this series was by Miguel de Oliveira. The executive producer was Aaron Fellows. This is a Mindhouse Studios production for Spotify.