JRE MMA Show #184 with Aljamain Sterling

Joe sits down with professional mixed martial artist Aljamain Sterling, who currently competes in the Ultimate Fighting Championship's Featherweight division. He is the host of the "Weekly Scraps" podcast and founder of Funk Harbor Rum.www.youtube.com/@FunkMasterUFCwww.funkharborspirits.comwww.aljamainsterling.com www. JoinFunkHarbor.com Perplexity: Download the app or ask Perplexity anything at https://pplx.ai/rogan. Visit https://ketone.com/Rogan for 30% OFF, or find Ketone-IQ at Target nationwide. This video is sponsored by BetterHelp. Visit https://BetterHelp.com/JRE Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

• 0:02Speaker 00

  The Joe Rogan Experience.

• 0:05Speaker 01

  Training by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day.

• 0:12Speaker 02

  Remember, uh...

• 0:13Speaker 03

  What's with the gold teeth? What's going on?

• 0:14Speaker 02

  Theo Von.

• 0:15Speaker 03

  Give me a smile. Oh, you got it top and bottom, man. What did you do?

• 0:20Speaker 02

  It's amazing. I've always wanted to have money so I could get one of these when I was a kid growing up.

• 0:27Speaker 03

  Now, was that one of the ones that you could take out? Or is it...

• 0:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 0:30Speaker 03

  Okay, that's good. Because that's such a commitment, you know? One day, you gotta go to the White House.

• 0:35Speaker 02

  Right.

• 0:36Speaker 03

  You got diamonds and gold in your teeth? That's crazy.

• 0:41Speaker 02

  It might be your first time, you know?

• 0:43Speaker 03

  How does it fit? It's like, like a retainer?

• 0:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, so they, they fit it, they mold it. Um, I got it done in, in Dallas, actually. And, uh, they just fit it, mold it to your teeth, and then you could pop them in. It's almost like wearing a retainer.

• 0:55Speaker 03

  Texas loves grills.

• 0:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 0:56Speaker 03

  They love grills down there.

• 0:57Speaker 00

  We gotta get ours.

• 0:58Speaker 03

  We gotta get Paul Wall.

• 0:59Speaker 00

  Yeah, Paul Wall says he's gonna hook us up.

• 1:02Speaker 02

  Let's go, hang.

• 1:03Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, I'm not sure.

• 1:05Speaker 02

  I just, I remember, what, what was the one episode with, uh, Theo? And, uh, you asked about the headphones, and he was, he said something like, uh, it's like, sitting there with the, with the, with the condom, and, uh, and then she's just looking at you, or I forget exactly how the joke goes. But it was, it was funny. It was like one of Theo Von's greatest, um, moments where he says all these things. He was like, when I, when I feel like saying it, I just write it down. I don't know if you saw this clip, but it's hilarious.

• 1:34Speaker 03

  I mean, I'm sure I was there when it happened, but he says so many ridiculous things, I can't remember. Here it goes. Over here.

• 1:41Speaker 02

  I didn't see, put it on.

• 1:42Speaker 04

  On.

• 1:43Speaker 03

  I feel like I'm alone here. Headphone land.

• 1:47Speaker 04

  Yeah, that is weird, huh?

• 1:48Speaker 03

  Now you're back.

• 1:49Speaker 04

  It's like when you put a condom on, and then the other person's just still looking at their phone, and you're like, oh, this is weird. And the person, I mean, is a woman, too.

• 1:58Speaker 03

  Right, you gotta, you gotta tell everybody, huh?

• 2:00Speaker 04

  Well, I'm just saying, I'm just saying.

• 2:03Speaker 03

  There it is.

• 2:05Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah, that's why we said the headphones, I just, that just came to my head like immediately.

• 2:10Speaker 03

  Yeah, I, sometimes I have them off, sometimes I have them on, but it's better to have them on. It locks you in.

• 2:16Speaker 02

  Locks you in, yeah.

• 2:17Speaker 03

  Locks you in, you know?

• 2:18Speaker 02

  I feel that.

• 2:19Speaker 03

  Did you watch the UFC this past weekend, the Apex?

• 2:21Speaker 02

  Um, I watched the main event, co-main.

• 2:25Speaker 03

  Bro, the main event. Sal Kil is legit.

• 2:28Speaker 02

  I wasn't too sure about him, but now I'm very sure.

• 2:32Speaker 03

  As a man who has one of the best back controls in the sport, you, you had to appreciate that back control.

• 2:38Speaker 02

  Oh, it was amazing, and he took him down, which I was kinda surprised, I was like, why's he going for the takedown?

• 2:41Speaker 03

  Crazy.

• 2:42Speaker 02

  Proving a point.

• 2:43Speaker 03

  Proving a point. Because his stand-up is so sick, too. That guy's so complete, man. To do that to Gamrot?

• 2:49Speaker 02

  That's what I was gonna say.

• 2:50Speaker 03

  Crazy.

• 2:51Speaker 02

  He's a sick grappler in his own right. I thought he was gonna get out that one, that one moment where he had the leg, uh, hiked up, he had the ankle, and all he had to do was swim inside, but he kept it too long, allowed him to hit the ground, and he was able to readjust and, uh, lock in that, that figure four, and it was over.

• 3:06Speaker 03

  Well, when he reached over and grabbed the far arm and used that to hang on to the back, like, that is slick.

• 3:12Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 3:12Speaker 03

  That was slick. He was, he was fucking slick, man. And just, just very high level. Everything was like, like an elevated level. I was, I had a very high opinion of him before the fight, but now I'm like, oh, this dude could do it. He could do it.

• 3:28Speaker 02

  He knows ball. He knows ball. I was, I was really surprised with that. And the fact that it went so quick, all his fights have been in the first round.

• 3:34Speaker 03

  And these scrambles, these scrambles from this position. Now, generally in this position, it's so hard to keep back control, like, right here, grabbing the arm and this adjustment, bro, that's, that's really skillful.

• 3:47Speaker 02

  It's a seatbelt.

• 3:48Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 3:49Speaker 02

  Just the way he's able to adjust. Gamrot's trying everything, but once he gets to that position, it's over. You're, you're back, you're back in his, uh, backpack and...

• 3:58Speaker 03

  He's got a lot going on, man. He's, first of all, real tall for the weight class.

• 4:02Speaker 02

  Huge.

• 4:02Speaker 03

  I think he's over six feet tall, long, excellent reach, excellent strike. The other thing that he did that was really slick, he pretended to get up off of his back so Gamrot explodes, and he exposes his neck, right there. Watch that, back that up just a touch. What, look at that, this is so slick. Like, look, he's hanging on his back, they're struggling, and he said, let me just sit up, and he'll sit up, bam, right there. That's so nasty.

• 4:28Speaker 02

  It's slick as fuck, man.

• 4:31Speaker 03

  That's so slick. That's such a good sneaky move, because the guy's like, oh, now's my time, you know, those moments where you feel like you can move?

• 4:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 4:40Speaker 03

  Like, he got, he, he give you some space, like, I'm gonna go, and then, pah, ah.

• 4:45Speaker 02

  I'm, I'm, anytime I'm in training and someone has my back, I always try to make sure I'm always aware of the choke. Matt Serra always says, always protect the choke first, and that's the main thing I always try to focus on. Protect the choke first before you start doing anything else that's crazy.

• 4:57Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 4:58Speaker 02

  Because at the end of the day, it just takes that little split second to get under the neck, and that could be the fight.

• 5:02Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's like, sometimes people just get, they, they, they get a little too urgent. You know, they get a little too, they just wanna make something happen without just being safe all the time. Always be safe. And that's, then, in Gamrot's situation right there, that was the moment, because who knows? If he could have made it out of that position and survived all those choke attempts and got to the next round, who knows? You know, and if he got on top, who knows? And Sal Kil, I mean, it, you presume he has great endurance, you presume, but we really don't know yet.

• 5:35Speaker 02

  We have no, it's just the wild unknown about him.

• 5:37Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 5:38Speaker 02

  That's why I'm just like, I don't know how good he actually is, but I can tell you what, first round, he's a motherfucker.

• 5:42Speaker 03

  He's a motherfucker.

• 5:43Speaker 02

  That guy is good.

• 5:44Speaker 03

  It's interesting, like, these guys that are, that have the unknowns, you know, like, some guys get really fa, like, Tom Aspinall, come, becomes heavyweight champion of the world, and it's kind of an unknown whether he can fight in the fourth and fifth rounds. Kinda crazy.

• 5:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 5:59Speaker 03

  Right? We just know he's a blitzer, we know he's big and fast, but we really rarely see him get out of the first round.

• 6:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 6:06Speaker 03

  Kinda nuts.

• 6:07Speaker 02

  It's, um, it's a gift and a curse.

• 6:09Speaker 03

  Right, that's a good way to put it.

• 6:11Speaker 02

  Because you get both your paychecks if you get done really, really early. But then, if you get into the, you know, you run into the wrong one, and the fight starts to get tough, you don't know if you can actually push that envelope, because training's different.

• 6:22Speaker 03

  Dude, that, that is the most bullshit part of the UFC. You get both your paychecks. Fuck off. Fuck off with that, I hate it. That drives me nuts.

• 6:31Speaker 02

  I know the boss, we could talk to him.

• 6:33Speaker 03

  He's not gonna listen. I've said this a hundred times already. It, it should be, you get paid what you get paid. It shouldn't be, first of all, if, if judges were perfect every time, maybe you could make an argument for that, but I still don't think you should make an argument for that, because I think guys fight as hard as they can to win. There's no one who's fighting harder because they think you're gonna get a win bonus. You know, you're fighting as hard as you possibly can.

• 6:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 6:59Speaker 03

  At the highest level, and so it's, you're not incentivizing people to fight harder. You're just, you're, you're giving too much of their career, too much of their future, too much of their, their actual, like, how they gonna feed their family, to the whims of people that sometimes get it wrong.

• 7:16Speaker 02

  A hundred percent. I, I, I do remember one incident where I was, situation, I should say, where I was going to fight harder, and that was UFC 300 against Calvin Kader, when Dana announced the bonuses were gonna be 300,000, and I got super pumped up, and everyone always points at us, they go, you got so excited, and then you went there and you fought like that. I go, listen, it's, it takes two to tango. If he wants to sit there and hold me, it's not much I could do. I can't really just fight. I thought about it, I was like, I'm gonna just go out there and just start swinging for the fences and take him down and maybe get a crazy finish, and it didn't go that way, but I tried, I tried. I thought about it.

• 7:51Speaker 03

  Guys cancel each other out, too.

• 7:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 7:53Speaker 03

  That's the thing, you know, when people want exciting fights, everybody wants exciting fights, of course, of course. But there is a reality to skillful guys going after each other, and that sometimes they'll cancel each other out and make a boring fight.

• 8:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 8:08Speaker 03

  That shit happens.

• 8:09Speaker 02

  It, it really does. There's, there's no rhyme or reason either.

• 8:12Speaker 03

  Nope.

• 8:13Speaker 02

  I mean, who is it, um, like Francis Lewis, Francis Lewis, Francis Zengano and Derrick Lewis.

• 8:20Speaker 03

  Derrick Lewis, oh my god. One of the worst fights of all time.

• 8:22Speaker 02

  But we all thought that was gonna be just a quick fight, someone's getting...

• 8:26Speaker 03

  We thought it would be madness, madness. Guaranteed madness. Two of the biggest knockout artists in the history of the heavyweight division.

• 8:32Speaker 02

  An exact opposite.

• 8:33Speaker 03

  Nothing. Nothing happened.

• 8:35Speaker 02

  But...

• 8:35Speaker 03

  It was hell.

• 8:36Speaker 02

  These fights happen. And then the fans get on you about it. I'm like, listen, you go take a punch from that guy, that guy's gonna send my consciousness to a whole different universe.

• 8:44Speaker 03

  Well, you had Francis coming off the loss to Stipe, and I think he was a little rattled mentally, and then you had Derrick, who realizes, like, he's looking for his one big shot, and he's not willing to wade in and get clipped, and so he's, you know, waiting to play the role of the counter striker, and then no one does nothing.

• 9:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 9:04Speaker 03

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• 11:34Speaker 02

  Carlos Spazza and Rose

• 11:36Speaker 03

  Rose Nama-Yunus, worst fight in history. Arguably.

• 11:39Speaker 02

  It's, it's

• 11:40Speaker 03

  I think it might be worse. Cause I think that was five rounds. We went through five rounds of that shit.

• 11:44Speaker 02

  It was five rounds.

• 11:45Speaker 03

  That was worse than Derrick Lewis and Francis Ngannou would have been the worst because of expectations. But it was only three rounds.

• 11:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 11:52Speaker 03

  This was five rounds of what the fuck is going on?

• 11:55Speaker 02

  And I, it's not a knock on the fighters.

• 11:57Speaker 03

  Of course not. They're two of the greatest fly, uh, flyweights. Right, no.

• 12:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 12:03Speaker 03

  Strawweights.

• 12:03Speaker 02

  Strawweights.

• 12:04Speaker 03

  Two of the greatest strawweights of all time. I mean, Rose Nama-Yunus, when she knocked out Zhang Weili with that fucking head kick, holy shit. When she, when, when she starched Yawana, hit her with that left hook and took her out, like dude, Rose is a beast, man. She's a beast. One of the absolute most exciting fighters, champions of all time. In those, those, those particular exchanges, like some of the fights that she's had, they've been amazing, amazing fights. But that just fights, that fight sucked.

• 12:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 12:32Speaker 03

  For whatever reason.

• 12:33Speaker 02

  It happens.

• 12:34Speaker 03

  Just happens sometimes.

• 12:35Speaker 02

  Can't explain it, but sometimes you just feel something when you're in there. You're just kinda like, well, I'm not gonna go. And they're like, well, I'm not gonna go if you're not gonna go. That's just

• 12:43Speaker 03

  Yeah, I don't know what was going on in that fight. It was very strange. But I also think there's a time when you've been in so many wars. You know, you've been, you've had so many wars that your, your willingness to exchange is different. Your, your, your drive to attack is different. It's not there anymore. And some, especially people who fight in wars. And Rose has been in some wars.

• 13:08Speaker 02

  And that's why I fight the way I fight now so differently. Because those wars that I had leading up to where I'm at, I mean, I had that barn burner with all these, all the guys on the way to the title and I had to change it up.

• 13:20Speaker 03

  Yeah, you gotta stay alive. You gotta fight smart.

• 13:24Speaker 02

  I'm joking. My fights are not barn burners like that.

• 13:26Speaker 03

  No.

• 13:27Speaker 02

  But

• 13:27Speaker 03

  They're different. Your fights are the best. You have the best back control, I think I've ever seen in this sport. There's, when you get on someone's back, I'm like, oh shit, this is getting crazy.

• 13:38Speaker 02

  Yeah. I, I did wanna say I appreciate, cause I do hear the, the episodes where you guys talk about it. I'm like, yeah.

• 13:44Speaker 03

  Dude, your back control's nuts. The Sanhagen fight is nuts. When you know how good Sanhagen is and you just got that back and that was nighty night. It was so slick. You've done that to so many dudes too. And you could see, you know, like obviously redemption for you was the second Piyote Yan fight. That was redemption.

• 14:03Speaker 02

  It felt so good.

• 14:03Speaker 03

  Go. I remember you came in right afterwards and was like, everybody's gotta shut the fuck up now. They all gotta shut the fuck up.

• 14:10Speaker 02

  They go, it was a split decision, I go, shut up.

• 14:13Speaker 03

  Shut up. Yeah, please. Yeah, you, you, you really showed everybody in that second fight. The first fight was just nonsense. The first fight, just that kind of a, a move to hit someone when they're down on one knee like that. Like what the fuck are you doing, man?

• 14:30Speaker 02

  That was a rough time.

• 14:30Speaker 03

  Crazy. And then you, having already had a bulging disc in your neck, your neck was already fucked. It's also kinda crazy that you could compete at the level that you compete at with a fake disc in your neck.

• 14:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 14:43Speaker 03

  Do you ever think about that thing?

• 14:45Speaker 02

  Oh, 100%. I still have like nerve damage in my tricep from it. Like if I do like a Pilates or just a plank, you'll see it just this side shaking. It's so bad.

• 14:56Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 14:56Speaker 02

  Even till this day. It's a lot better than what it was before, but this is what people don't, um, understand that some of these fighters, us, like we go through a lot just to make it. And you're gonna hear the other side of it where no one told you to do it. It's not even about that. It's just like, we're trying our best to chase something great, something that's crazy in, in the sense of the word, you're right. And, uh, you put your body through hell to get there. And, um, I just, I know there's great fans out there who appreciate that. And there's the other ones who are more casual and they don't really understand, but I wish they took the time out just to train, to do a week of training and understand what we put our bodies through, day and at a high level against other high level guys.

• 15:35Speaker 03

  Listen, you need the casuals. You, you need everybody to buy tickets. It's all great.

• 15:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 15:40Speaker 03

  But the reality of the casuals, all you haters, you are doing yourself a disservice too. You're saying ridiculous shit. You're acting like a fucking retard. What you really should do is do better in your own life and you wouldn't be a hater. Cause almost all haters are losers. 100% of them. And the people they're hating on are doing way better than them. And there's legitimate criticism, but legitimate criticism can be handled respectfully. And the people that don't handle legitimate, the people that don't dish out legitimate criticism respectfully, it's because they haven't been smacked. Right?

• 16:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 16:19Speaker 03

  Or they haven't been smacked by the guy they're talking shit about.

• 16:22Speaker 02

  Yeah. Or they see him and then they change their tune real quick.

• 16:25Speaker 03

  Of course.

• 16:26Speaker 02

  It's such a weird thing.

• 16:27Speaker 03

  People are so crazy. They'll talk about literal professional fighters and call them pussies.

• 16:35Speaker 02

  I guess I got a lot of DMs.

• 16:37Speaker 03

  It's so delusional.

• 16:38Speaker 02

  One guy said I'll fold you in half like recently, cause I, I don't

• 16:41Speaker 03

  Yeah, but they're, they're just trying to fuck with your head. They don't even believe that. They're trying to get a rise out of Aljamain Sterling. They can get a rise out of a UFC champion. You know how, when they're 16 years old jerking off, cheetos all over their fingers? You know how exciting that must be? To, to have direct contact with you?

• 17:01Speaker 02

  Yeah. That's why I try, I try not to engage as much as I used to. Cause before I would, I think we talked about it before, I would engage and go back and forth.

• 17:08Speaker 03

  Don't do it.

• 17:09Speaker 02

  And I, I kinda got away from it, but the old version of me would like to just say all kinds of crazy shit. But I'm, I'm, you know, a little bit more mature now.

• 17:17Speaker 03

  There's no benefit in it and it wastes energy. That's the problem. And then it also wastes your, you get distracted. You're like, what did he say back? I can't wait to see what this motherfucker responded to. I'm gonna get him again.

• 17:26Speaker 02

  I do check, I do check.

• 17:28Speaker 03

  You saved a bunch of pictures of him from the Instagram.

• 17:31Speaker 02

  Let me see your ass in person. In real life.

• 17:34Speaker 03

  Yeah, before he deletes it, let me screenshot these.

• 17:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, there's, people are people, so I get it.

• 17:40Speaker 03

  Yeah, people are people, man. And I would have done the fucking same thing. If I was 15 years old and somebody gave me an Instagram account and I could talk shit to whoever, I would talk shit to everybody.

• 17:51Speaker 03

  Whoever it was.

• 17:52Speaker 02

  I'm trying to think if I was like that. I don't know if I was ever like that as a kid.

• 17:54Speaker 03

  It didn't exist when you were a kid. It, that, the access didn't exist. If that access existed, I guarantee, if you and your friends like, bro, Drake's talking shit with me. And you and Drake are going back and forth, you're like, fuck you pussy. Of course you would do it. Everybody would do it. I would do it 100%.

• 18:14Speaker 02

  I guess it's just human nature.

• 18:15Speaker 03

  It's 100%. But I think that when you get to the level that you're at, a literal world champion and a professional fighter of the highest caliber, that's, you do yourself a disservice. You do, like, I love Sean Strickland, he's crazy as fuck. But he gets in there with everybody all the time.

• 18:35Speaker 02

  I love it.

• 18:36Speaker 03

  He gets in there all day long, talking shit with people. He gets in there, but it's somehow or another doesn't distract him. I wouldn't give him the same advice. Something's fucked up about his brain that like, for him to be in that kinda conflict all day, it doesn't seem to bother him at all.

• 18:52Speaker 02

  I think it feels, like fuels him to like, wanna keep going more, like driving.

• 18:56Speaker 03

  Bro, Goggins plays a recording of all the shit that all of his haters have said to him while he runs.

• 19:05Speaker 02

  I wouldn't do that, but.

• 19:07Speaker 03

  But you know what I'm saying? Like, there's people that are wired different, and they think Sean is very, very much wired different. And for whatever reason, you know?

• 19:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, I, sometimes I always, but I like it. I like, he should have a segment, like how Ray Longo has like the Ray Longo minute. He should have like a Strickland minute.

• 19:26Speaker 03

  Well, I was telling him, you know, we were talking when he was out here. He went to Ways to Well as well, um, to get his shoulder worked on after, uh, the Hamza victory. And I was saying, you 100% could do a podcast. It would be hilarious. It would be great. You could have guests on. You could do whatever the fuck you want. Like, you have a real future outside the sport. Like, once, and he's also very smart with his money. As crazy as that dude is, he saved a ton of money. He gives great investment advice on Twitter. Like, he, he gives investment advice. You're like, who the fuck is this? This is the same guy? He's telling you how to invest your money? You know, S and P and all this shit? Like, oh, what?

• 19:58Speaker 02

  He's not as crazy as he comes off.

• 20:00Speaker 03

  He's a lot smarter than people give him credit for. And he uses that as like, it tricks you. And it tricks you into thinking that he's like a silly person.

• 20:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 20:09Speaker 03

  You know what I mean?

• 20:10Speaker 02

  But he'll say whatever comes to mind.

• 20:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 20:12Speaker 02

  That's him.

• 20:13Speaker 03

  But the motherfucker can fight.

• 20:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 20:15Speaker 03

  And I respect that. At the end of the day, that's the thing. That dude can fight. Like, he can fight. And he fights in a weird way. Like, his very weird style. Like, nobody has that style. This episode is brought to you by Ketone IQ. I've tried a lot of supplements, but for years, it's been one thing that I've been obsessed with, to keep my brain locked in, and that's ketones. An energy molecule our brains naturally create when pushed to our limits. Ketones used to cost thousands of dollars a shot and were only used by super elite people. But now, thanks to a $6 million research contract with the military, Ketone IQ had a breakthrough, and you can finally get ketones online, on Amazon, or at Target for $5 a shot.

• 20:58Speaker 03

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• 21:37Speaker 02

  Um, by the way, do you have a lighter?

• 21:38Speaker 03

  Yes, of course. Well, you want some cigars?

• 21:41Speaker 02

  I got, I got some.

• 21:42Speaker 03

  Oh, shit. Al Jermaine brings gifts. Let's go.

• 21:46Speaker 02

  We bring gifts. These are fighter cigars, too.

• 21:48Speaker 03

  Fighter cigars?

• 21:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm like part of it.

• 21:50Speaker 03

  What does that mean?

• 21:50Speaker 02

  Uh, so it's different fighter lines. I know you got a foundation.

• 21:54Speaker 03

  Uh huh.

• 21:55Speaker 02

  If I could ever open this. I think it's all cold now. I'm gonna use my, my, my fighting muscles.

• 22:02Speaker 03

  Fuck it up. It is about?

• 22:04Speaker 02

  I might. You might. You get the beer claws.

• 22:10Speaker 02

  It's weird.

• 22:11Speaker 03

  I broke it. I broke the, oh, I broke that, too. What the fuck, dude? I'll use the arrowhead.

• 22:17Speaker 02

  It's supposed to just pull open.

• 22:18Speaker 03

  Should.

• 22:19Speaker 02

  I opened it this morning.

• 22:21Speaker 03

  That's weird. Did something happen to it?

• 22:24Speaker 02

  Got cold?

• 22:25Speaker 03

  I got a knife in here somewhere. Where's some big-ass knives that used to be here, Jamie?

• 22:28Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah, I had to take them out.

• 22:30Speaker 03

  Why? Oh, when the Vice President was here?

• 22:32Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 22:33Speaker 03

  Lucky, I always carry one.

• 22:36Speaker 03

  If, we can't get these open, Al Jermaine? Bro, this is like chromatically sealed. No, here it goes.

• 22:42Speaker 02

  There we go. So we got different ones. You got a Ju Dober in there. You got a Funkmaster.

• 22:47Speaker 03

  Which one's this?

• 22:48Speaker 02

  I think that's the Funkmaster. So I don't know if you like, like, light or dark?

• 22:52Speaker 03

  I like them all. This is you? We gotta smoke yours. Come on.

• 22:58Speaker 03

  Triumph cigars. So who's, who's making these? Where are they making them out of?

• 23:02Speaker 02

  Uh, so he gets them from different places.

• 23:04Speaker 03

  He's got some clipper on the back of that, too?

• 23:08Speaker 03

  He gets them from different places, like?

• 23:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, like Cuba, uh, Nicaragua, Honduras.

• 23:14Speaker 03

  Cuba. Really?

• 23:16Speaker 02

  I believe it's Cuban.

• 23:17Speaker 03

  Cause Cuban cigars are hard. No, no, no. They're not really banned. Pop the top. Have you ever, do you not smoke cigars, son? You're not, what are you doing? What are you doing? Give that to me. That's the clipper.

• 23:31Speaker 02

  Bro, this is high. This is high-level shit right here.

• 23:33Speaker 03

  Calibri. Um, lot of, lot of fake Cuban cigars. I got one. I got one. And then flip the top. There you go.

• 23:46Speaker 02

  So they got like Maduro's and different kinds. I'm like new into cigars.

• 23:51Speaker 03

  And these are the Funkmaster. That might be dead. Here, I'm sorry.

• 23:56Speaker 02

  This one's good. This one's good. Jamie, you smoke cigars?

• 23:59Speaker 00

  No.

• 24:00Speaker 03

  Damn. Jamie's strictly blunt, but now he's gotta stop because he doesn't wanna be a felon.

• 24:06Speaker 00

  Can't do it here.

• 24:07Speaker 03

  He's gotta cross state lines. He's gotta go to Oklahoma and get high.

• 24:11Speaker 02

  Do you, do you actually?

• 24:13Speaker 00

  Once a day.

• 24:14Speaker 03

  Yeah, he takes a flight. Southwest to Oklahoma. Gets some bong rips and hops back on the plane.

• 24:24Speaker 03

  This is good. This is very good. So.

• 24:27Speaker 02

  The feedback on them has been great. They're good quality cigars. They make it from like people that make them, and they get them to make our own different like lines of them. So, pretty cool. But I like them.

• 24:39Speaker 03

  Well, we used to perform in Miami. Uh, there was a place that you could go. We could watch them hand-roll cigars, and they'd sell you cigars, like, hand-rolled. It was pretty dope. You watch these ladies like roll everything out, and they get that long knife, and they slice it up, and they.

• 24:52Speaker 02

  You rolled yourself? Have you?

• 24:53Speaker 03

  No, no, no, no, no.

• 24:54Speaker 02

  They taught us how to roll down in Miami?

• 24:56Speaker 03

  I don't wanna ruin it. I don't wanna do brain surgery on myself either.

• 24:59Speaker 02

  It's fun.

• 24:59Speaker 03

  Get an expert. Somebody's gotta be good at this.

• 25:05Speaker 03

  You got a rum line, too, right?

• 25:07Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 25:08Speaker 03

  Is that it? Funk Harbor around your neck?

• 25:10Speaker 02

  Funk Harbor, baby.

• 25:11Speaker 03

  Look at you.

• 25:12Speaker 02

  I got money now, Joe.

• 25:14Speaker 03

  You know that song? Bitch, I got money now.

• 25:18Speaker 02

  I, I was supposed to bring my sharpie. I didn't know if you wanted it like signed or whatever, but.

• 25:24Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 25:24Speaker 02

  But we won multiple medals and things like that.

• 25:26Speaker 03

  Multiple medals? There's medals for?

• 25:28Speaker 02

  Like competitions, yeah.

• 25:29Speaker 03

  For rums?

• 25:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, we got two double goals for this. We got two double goals for the silver.

• 25:34Speaker 03

  Jamie, can you get us some ice cubes and some glasses? Let's fucking party, Al Jermaine.

• 25:39Speaker 02

  Then we're gonna go to the mothership. I, I love that name, by the way.

• 25:43Speaker 03

  Thank you. Yeah, we were trying to figure out what to call it. We had a bunch of different, you know, Mitzi Shore, that lady who ran the Comedy Store?

• 25:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 25:53Speaker 03

  Painting up there, that's her. She was the, the owner and founder of the Comedy Store. She used to say about the comedians, "The inmates are running the asylum." So we were gonna call it the asylum, but I thought that sounds corny. A little corny. There's something about it. It's like a little like, oh, we're crazy, you know? And then I thought, well, what is this? One of the things that Ron White, he was the first. Ron White was the first guy to move here. And, you know, I knew Ron real well from LA. And Ron said, you know, "Well, I love it. It's in the middle of the country. You could fly out." What's the matter? You want one, Jamie? He's got work to do. He won't get hammered with us. He goes, "It's in the middle of the country. You can fly out. It's only like three hours from New York, three hours to LA. It's perfect."

• 26:38Speaker 03

  And I was like, well, that would be like the mothership, and then you could fly out. All your, all your ships could fly to different parts of the country, but that would be your base. The mothership would be the base. I'm like, ooh, that's perfect.

• 26:49Speaker 02

  That's pretty cool.

• 26:50Speaker 03

  Plus, obviously, I'm obsessed with aliens.

• 26:52Speaker 02

  That's what I thought it was.

• 26:53Speaker 03

  Of course. Yeah, I mean, I'm obsessed for whatever reason.

• 26:56Speaker 02

  Um.

• 26:57Speaker 03

  Which one? Dark or light? What's the difference?

• 26:59Speaker 02

  So, this one's our limited edition. It's got the number one on it. We're gonna be coming out with some different ones. We're actually going through a rebrand right now. This one's aged two to five years, but they're all Jamaican origin. This one's aged under the tropical sun, unaged, is a silver.

• 27:13Speaker 03

  Well, bust out that aged under the tropical sun shit.

• 27:15Speaker 02

  And this one, we use, uh, ex bourbon cast. So it drinks really nice if you like bourbon.

• 27:19Speaker 03

  Oh, okay.

• 27:20Speaker 02

  It's a little bit, it's like, I don't wanna say sweet, but it's not as, uh, harsh when you drink it.

• 27:25Speaker 03

  Are you a rum guy? Is that your thing? Is that why you started a rum company?

• 27:30Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 27:31Speaker 03

  You've always been a rum guy?

• 27:33Speaker 02

  My parents are from Jamaica.

• 27:35Speaker 03

  So I want to do some.

• 27:36Speaker 02

  My parents are from Italy, but I hate grappa. That shit's nasty.

• 27:40Speaker 03

  Grappa's not.

• 27:41Speaker 02

  That's fucking nasty.

• 27:43Speaker 03

  That stuff's nasty.

• 27:44Speaker 02

  I'm gonna take the big one.

• 27:45Speaker 03

  All right.

• 27:46Speaker 02

  Cheers, sir. What do you guys say? Salute?

• 27:50Speaker 03

  Salute?

• 27:52Speaker 02

  I think I say something else in Italy.

• 27:53Speaker 03

  I don't know.

• 27:54Speaker 02

  Do they?

• 27:55Speaker 03

  I just got back. I was just there last week.

• 27:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 28:00Speaker 03

  Two weeks ago?

• 28:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 28:01Speaker 03

  Two weeks ago. It was, it's awesome. I love it there.

• 28:04Speaker 02

  We still haven't gone. We wanna go so bad.

• 28:06Speaker 03

  Oh, bro, if you wanna eat, that's the place.

• 28:09Speaker 02

  Pasta. I just hear everybody talking about it. I was like, I would love to do that.

• 28:12Speaker 03

  I gained three pounds. I ate nothing but carbs. I ate so much food. I, I ate till I was hurting every night. I was like, I'm gonna ignore my diet completely. I, I worked out every day, but I was like, I'm gonna ignore my diet completely and just, just eat for pleasure.

• 28:30Speaker 02

  But it's not as bad, though.

• 28:32Speaker 03

  It's not as bad for you. The food is not as bad.

• 28:34Speaker 02

  But wait, calories are calories, though, but.

• 28:36Speaker 03

  It's just the volume. I'm a glutton. I ate two pizzas. I ate linguine with clams. I had, uh, burrata and, and, and, um, tomatoes. And I also had, what else did I have? Something, oh, a bunch of pieces of bread. I ate so much in one setting. Then I got home that night, uh, when we sat back, and I was like, I can't move. I'm, I've eaten myself to a place where I'm like, you ever see one of those lions that eats too much and they just lie like?

• 29:08Speaker 03

  That's how I felt.

• 29:09Speaker 02

  Trust me, that, those were, those were my 135 days. As soon as the fight's over, I'm going in.

• 29:15Speaker 03

  Bro, I remember one time I ran into you at the Apex, and I was like, what do you weigh? And you said 176. I was like, that's crazy.

• 29:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 29:24Speaker 03

  You gotta lose 40 pounds? That's crazy.

• 29:28Speaker 02

  The fascinating part is when I went up to 45, I got down and I was lighter than my natural walking around weight. Still eating the same way I always did. And I was walking around about 168, sometimes 66 to about 172. And I'm like, this is, doesn't even make any sense how much lighter I am from 135.

• 29:47Speaker 03

  Maybe it's just less anxiety about making the weight.

• 29:49Speaker 02

  That too.

• 29:50Speaker 03

  Your body didn't hold on to it as much.

• 29:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, so the body kinda just recognizes what's happening, like, oh, this is a nicer weight cut.

• 29:57Speaker 03

  Yeah, you're healthy now.

• 29:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 29:59Speaker 03

  Even though it's still a weight cut.

• 30:00Speaker 02

  I was gonna say, but I just checked my weight last week when I got, well, actually, two days ago when I got back from, uh.

• 30:09Speaker 03

  You're at least 170.

• 30:11Speaker 02

  I'm heavier than that.

• 30:12Speaker 03

  175?

• 30:13Speaker 02

  North.

• 30:13Speaker 03

  80? 180?

• 30:15Speaker 02

  I was 78, that's when I checked.

• 30:18Speaker 02

  And I didn't look fat, I was like, this is crazy, it's happening again. It's happening all over again.

• 30:22Speaker 03

  There's people that don't understand it, like I have to explain to my normie friends, where they're like, "How's he lose all that weight? He doesn't have anything to lose." I'm like, "Well, you're sucking your muscles dry." That's what's crazy. And your organs. That's what's really dark. Oh, it's dark dude, it's dark. It's the worst part about fighting.

• 30:41Speaker 02

  I still think same day weigh-ins.

• 30:43Speaker 03

  Well, same day weigh-ins would change a lot, but also guys would get really hurt. Because people are still gonna lose the weight. They're still gonna do it.

• 30:50Speaker 02

  But I think that's gonna be like a phase, like people are gonna realize how stupid this is, they go, "Oh, I actually feel better just competing at my weight."

• 30:58Speaker 03

  Perhaps, but I think you would have to have multiple weight classes added. Many weight classes added. There's too many gaps that are too ridiculous.

• 31:07Speaker 02

  The 15-pound gap would be the most challenging from 55 to 70.

• 31:12Speaker 03

  What about 85 to 205? That's nuts. 85 to 205 is crazy. 20 pounds is crazy.

• 31:17Speaker 02

  I always thought there should be an in-between for that one.

• 31:20Speaker 03

  100%. There should be every 10 pounds. Every 10 pounds is smart. You know, go 125, 35, 45, 55, 60. Blow up in the ones that are, you know, like when you get to 70, make 70, 75. You know, 85 is already there, make a 95, make a 205. And then it gets weird with heavyweight. I think you might wanna have like a bridger weight, like a 220, 225, and then giant fellas. And then after that, it should be as big as the fuckin' you wanna be. Cause that's the weird thing, it's like...

• 31:54Speaker 02

  Heavyweight's limited.

• 31:54Speaker 03

  I remember Tim Sylvia, when Tim Sylvia was saucy. There was a time when Tim Sylvia was big, he was a big fella. And he was cutting weight to make 265 hardcore. He was barely making it. He was so big back then, man.

• 32:09Speaker 02

  He's a big man.

• 32:09Speaker 03

  He's gigantic.

• 32:10Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 32:11Speaker 03

  And that was when he was fucking sick. And he, I remember watching him struggle to make the 265, I'm like, "That's crazy. Why are you making the heavyweights cut weight? That doesn't make any sense."

• 32:22Speaker 02

  It takes away from what heavyweight actually...

• 32:25Speaker 03

  Yeah. The biggest, baddest motherfucker alive.

• 32:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 32:28Speaker 03

  You know, when Mike Tyson was fucking everybody up, people weighed 220.

• 32:31Speaker 02

  He, I won't say small, let me not say small.

• 32:33Speaker 03

  For a heavyweight?

• 32:34Speaker 02

  For a heavyweight, he was small.

• 32:35Speaker 03

  I mean, it doesn't matter. Kane, when Kane was fucking everybody up, he was 240.

• 32:40Speaker 02

  He was light too.

• 32:40Speaker 03

  Yeah, Fedor, same thing. He was never real big. Fedor was fairly small compared to a lot of other heavyweights.

• 32:47Speaker 02

  But then you got a guy like, uh, Rose Bellis Despen?

• 32:51Speaker 03

  Oh, that guy's crazy.

• 32:52Speaker 02

  He's huge.

• 32:53Speaker 03

  Seven feet tall, he's gigantic.

• 32:55Speaker 02

  Huge, that guy is...

• 32:55Speaker 03

  That range is nuts.

• 32:57Speaker 02

  He's like the modern day Neanderthal, like he's an Amazonian.

• 33:01Speaker 03

  He's a giant, a literal giant. He's one of those guys where, um, when I saw that fight that, that MVP did with him and Junior Dos Santos, I said, "Please don't do that fight." That fight's not right. That's, that's one of those fights where you're like, "That fight's not right."

• 33:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 33:16Speaker 03

  This is just too much of a changing of the guard.

• 33:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 33:19Speaker 03

  He's one guy who is coming off of karate combat, first of all. And one thing, if Junior was a wrestler, if Junior was a sick wrestler, and you know, oh, you know, maybe he's gonna take him down, ground and pound, this, this is kinda, even though he's older, he's been knocked out a bunch of times, he's still very dangerous. But, you know, Junior had seen his best days back when he knocked out Kane. Which was like, what year was that?

• 33:42Speaker 02

  Ooh, 2016, 2015?

• 33:45Speaker 03

  Was it even?

• 33:47Speaker 02

  I got signed at 2014. I don't, I remember Kane, not Kane...

• 33:53Speaker 03

  So it was the big, it was the big Fox card. It was the first card on Fox. Because I remember they made Kane fight with a blown out knee. Or they encouraged him to fight with a blown out knee. Kane's knee was fucked before that fight. And Junior caught him with that perfect right hand, what, 2013? Okay.

• 34:12Speaker 02

  That's his debut?

• 34:14Speaker 03

  Right, no, that's that fight. That's the fight where he knocked out Kane Velazquez.

• 34:20Speaker 03

  Oh, that's the second one? What's the one where he beat Kane? It's right before that. Uh, no, right before that.

• 34:26Speaker 02

  Oh, so he got signed before I did.

• 34:27Speaker 03

  Yeah, the Fox one, 2011. Okay, so 15 years of wars.

• 34:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 34:33Speaker 03

  15 years of this Steve Amiotic fight, which was horrible to watch. Right, that was a brutal, brutal fight. And then you have the second Kane fight, which was horrible to watch. And then I think there was a third Kane fight too, correct?

• 34:45Speaker 02

  JDS?

• 34:46Speaker 03

  Yes. Which was also horrible to watch.

• 34:48Speaker 02

  Well, two tough fights, back to back.

• 34:51Speaker 03

  Bro, if you don't take Kane out in that first round, that storm never ends.

• 34:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 34:56Speaker 03

  Never ends. You're like, "We're gonna ride this storm out."

• 35:00Speaker 02

  No.

• 35:01Speaker 03

  There was no riding. Prime Kane was a motherfucker dude.

• 35:06Speaker 02

  I, man, when, uh, I've always been conflicted with him and DC. Cause it kinda reminded me of, uh, Murab and I. And I always said like, if DC stayed at heavyweight, he could have arguably, potentially have been the greatest heavyweight of all time. But I do know DC always says, in the training room, Kane was the man. He was the guy.

• 35:27Speaker 03

  Yeah, he told me always, Kane beat his ass. DC should have been a middleweight, how about that?

• 35:32Speaker 02

  I don't know, that guy's making middleweight.

• 35:34Speaker 03

  Discipline DC.

• 35:36Speaker 02

  Him and his chicken.

• 35:37Speaker 03

  If DC went to Dagestan, if DC went to Dagestan for three years...

• 35:44Speaker 02

  He's not gonna forget.

• 35:45Speaker 03

  Yeah. Forget, three years. If he, if DC made middleweight, and he could have made middleweight. A lot of guys who are way leaner than him have made that weight.

• 35:58Speaker 02

  So, I saw him at my UFC debut. UFC 170, at Mandalay Bay in the back room, uh, cutting weight, doing the workouts. And he looked like he was dying just to make 205.

• 36:11Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm, true.

• 36:13Speaker 02

  So, I don't know how he would have done it.

• 36:17Speaker 03

  Well, he would have had to change his diet.

• 36:19Speaker 02

  No more Popeyes.

• 36:20Speaker 03

  Yeah, no more nothing, no more garbage. And he would have had, I love DC too. He's my favorite person to do commentary with by far. He's the best.

• 36:28Speaker 02

  He's fun.

• 36:29Speaker 03

  He's, we have such a good time. We have such a good time. He's such a fun dude. Like genuinely happy, fun dude. Look at him, that's 205 DC. So 205 DC though, you're telling me that like Alex Pereira, if he was built like that, couldn't lose 20 pounds? Of course he could.

• 36:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, I don't know.

• 36:47Speaker 03

  Cause he's not, look, if you see the guys that fight at 85, like Joe Pfeifer. Joe Pfeifer's a giant. Dricus, Dricus Duplessis is a fucking giant.

• 36:56Speaker 02

  He's big.

• 36:56Speaker 03

  He's gigantic. He looks like a heavyweight. And he makes 85. I, what does that mean? He's sucking it in.

• 37:05Speaker 03

  He could have made middleweight. He could have made middleweight. If he had like, the real, if he, if he just had the drive and did it as a lifestyle change, and like did it over the course of like a year? And like really leaned himself out, got on like a ketogenic diet, leaned himself out?

• 37:22Speaker 02

  But then how often would he be able to fight?

• 37:25Speaker 03

  Depends on how much he actually gets his body weight down to. That's the thing, like DC's only like 5'11", 5'10"? How tall is he?

• 37:33Speaker 02

  I'm gonna give him 5'11".

• 37:35Speaker 03

  Maybe, maybe...

• 37:35Speaker 02

  Cause I like him.

• 37:36Speaker 03

  Maybe, I love him. Might be, might be 5'11".

• 37:39Speaker 02

  5'8".

• 37:40Speaker 03

  But there's guys with his body that could have, but it's not like a thing where you, you can make the weight by just dehydrating yourself. No, he's too big. But if he had, with his frame, if he had slowly but surely leaned himself out and did it healthy, smart over like the course of a year? He'd have to take some time off and really just dedicate himself to just getting lean. His gas tank could be better. Who's gonna fuck with that guy at middleweight? Do you remember what he was doing to Dan Henderson? Do you remember that fight?

• 38:09Speaker 02

  Flipped him like a burger.

• 38:10Speaker 03

  Bro, he threw him around like a ragdoll, and Dan Henderson's a monster. He's a monster. That guy's a beast. He's such a tank. And DC just ragdolled him, just ragdolled him.

• 38:22Speaker 02

  That was 205, right?

• 38:23Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 38:23Speaker 02

  Henderson came up.

• 38:24Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm, Henderson came up. This episode is brought to you by Traeger. Food cooked over real wood is just on another level. And that's why Traeger is such a game changer. Their grills run on real hardwood pellets, so everything gets that legit wood-fired flavor. Whether you're grilling steaks, smoking ribs, cooking chicken, or even baking a pizza. You just set your temperature, put your food in, and let Traeger handle the rest. It's simple. If you like food that tastes like it came off a real fire without all the work, check out Traeger grills. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. If you've thought about trying therapy with our long-term partner, BetterHelp,

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• 39:50Speaker 03

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• 39:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, you know, cause when I would cut down, and I wasn't always this big at 35. But when I would cut down to 35, I would have to do it in stages. So I couldn't do a three-month turnaround, like I did for the one fight.

• 40:11Speaker 03

  How much time do you need?

• 40:12Speaker 02

  I needed... Four months is ideal.

• 40:15Speaker 03

  That's crazy.

• 40:16Speaker 02

  It's ideal.

• 40:17Speaker 03

  That's so long.

• 40:17Speaker 02

  Cause I could slowly get down. And then I could start tripping away, cause I'm at my natural state, I'm fat and happy. And it's not even fat, I'm just at my normal walking weight. And then I get down from seventy whatever to seventy, then I get the next week or the week following, down to sixty-five, after that I get down to sixty. And that's like the optimal weight I wanna be at, and then I get to fifty-five. And this is like where I'm gonna be when I'm stepping into the octagon. So to do that over the periods of time, like, you could do it really quick, cause I, I have the wrestler's mentality. I can do it fast, but doesn't mean everything's gonna be where it should be. And I also felt my cardio in rounds four and five, in comparison to doing rounds four and five in the training room, severely different. My guys saying, you would think I was Marab, right?

• 41:02Speaker 02

  And uh, just for, for comparison's sake, right? And then I'll go into the fights in rounds four or five, I'm like, I gotta conserve some energy, I gotta conserve some energy, cause I'm, I'm slowing down, I can feel it, but I'm trying not to show it.

• 41:12Speaker 03

  Is there a difference between when you were allowed to use the IV and when they took the IVs away?

• 41:17Speaker 02

  I used IV once.

• 41:18Speaker 03

  Only once?

• 41:18Speaker 02

  And that was in like twenty fifteen, I thought it was stupid. It took forever to get it. And I'm like, I could have been eating right now, and I'm the same weight that I was when I just ate. Like, I'd much rather just stuff my face.

• 41:30Speaker 03

  I think the idea is that it hydrates you more efficiently. Cause instead of having to go through your stomach, it goes right into your veins? And then it hydrates your muscles more efficiently?

• 41:40Speaker 02

  I didn't really feel like a performance difference, if I'm being honest.

• 41:44Speaker 03

  Interesting.

• 41:44Speaker 02

  But I'm different. Some people call me an anomaly, and they say you can't do what I do, I drink in training camp, and people think I'm crazy.

• 41:51Speaker 03

  Really?

• 41:51Speaker 02

  Yeah. I drink the night before the fight.

• 41:53Speaker 03

  What?

• 41:53Speaker 02

  Yeah. I have, I have one glass, sometimes two.

• 41:57Speaker 03

  Really?

• 41:58Speaker 02

  Three is like we're getting crazy, but.

• 41:59Speaker 03

  The night before the fight, after you've cut weight?

• 42:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 42:02Speaker 03

  Why do you do that?

• 42:03Speaker 02

  I'm not John Jones. That guy's built, I'm built different, but he's built different than me.

• 42:09Speaker 03

  Well, I think John is just so fucking talented, and so fucking smart, that he was able to get by and dominate at a world championship level, by putting himself at a deficit like that. Whereas if John, you say that, but John's a different person, like he wouldn't be the same guy. He's wild. There's something about John, that's one of the reasons why he's so good, is that he's wild. He's intelligent and wild at the same time.

• 42:36Speaker 02

  And that's why you can't compare, it's like whatever makes you happy, when people, uh, I remember Kyle Dick said something like, he would eat ice cream, not right before a match, but in his training, he's like, because it makes him happy. I wanna have a drink because throughout the training camp, I'm already going through this hard grind. After sparring, and I feel like I hit a threshold where my conditioning is at a place where I want it to be, it's like a checkpoint. I'm like, okay, this is my checkpoint, I hit it.

• 43:03Speaker 03

  Have you ever worn an Aura ring, or a Whoop strap, or any of those things?

• 43:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, that thing's stupid.

• 43:07Speaker 03

  Well, they lie to you.

• 43:10Speaker 02

  That thing's attacking me every day.

• 43:11Speaker 03

  Cause what it's saying is that the alcohol is affecting your sleep.

• 43:15Speaker 02

  Stop attacking me.

• 43:18Speaker 02

  Took that shit off and threw it in the corner somewhere.

• 43:19Speaker 03

  Fuck you with your facts. Facts, facts and data.

• 43:23Speaker 02

  I uh, I remember I brought out Adrian Yannis, I brought him out twice. The first time though, um, it was for the Piyota Yan rematch, and uh, he stays at my house for about a week, we spar, I think it was a Thursday, I take him to Johnny McGorries, and um, I bring him to my guy Rishi.

• 43:41Speaker 03

  What's Johnny McGorries?

• 43:42Speaker 02

  It's a, it's a pub.

• 43:43Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 43:43Speaker 02

  Um, on Long Island in Massapek, they got two now, but um, I bring him over there, and the, the guy I talked to over there, who I deal with, Rishi, he's the man. He's good friends with Wyman and Volante from like the college days back at Hosta. And he's a big MMA fan, so I love that. So instantly we kicked it off when I met him, the first time. So I bring him over there, and it's after the spar, I'm like, yeah, we're gonna get some food. We go there, and then he sees me, and I order a drink, and I, I was like, yeah, get one for him too. He was like, yo, bro, what are you, what, what are you doing? I was like, no, no, this is normal, trust me. He's like, you, he looks at me, and he's just like dumbfounded, he's like, you drink in training camp? Like, it was the biggest like taboo thing on earth. I'm like, yeah dude, like, we just had some good rounds today.

• 44:25Speaker 02

  This is my reward, you deserve one too, like, you're in shape, I'm in shape. Let's have one or two. And uh, and I always get my Thai chili wings over there. And so whenever I go in Long Island, I'm finishing up a camp on the East Coast, I'm fighting home on the East Coast, um, Rishi will always hit me up, he goes, we're gonna do the, uh, the ritual? Get the Thai chili wings, and get my IPAs? And yeah, but, like I said, everyone's different, whatever makes you feel comfortable, if, if you're gonna do it, you can't, like, for me, like, having a drink the night before the fight, and people go like, you're not worried it's gonna affect your performance, and I go, if I lose because of this one drink, I wasn't supposed to win, point blank, period.

• 45:07Speaker 03

  Okay, but let me, let me push back on that. Imagine you're fighting a guy who you and him are like that, neck and neck, neck and neck.

• 45:16Speaker 02

  Moser?

• 45:17Speaker 03

  Neck and, yeah, right, neck and neck. And the difference is whether or not you got that extra REM sleep the night before. Where you could push, when you lay off, when you lay back on the gas, when you really maybe could like, if you were a little bit more rested, you could just, one extra move, one extra transition, one extra guard pass, one extra attempt at a submission, one extra thing that gets you the round, you know what I'm saying?

• 45:42Speaker 02

  I take my naps before the fight. I take my naps before the fight, recharge that battery.

• 45:49Speaker 03

  Well, listen, Ilya Topor used to drink wine, at the weigh-ins. He was weighing in, while he was cutting weight.

• 45:56Speaker 02

  It's no perfect formula, yeah.

• 45:58Speaker 03

  Yeah, there's no perfect formula. I mean, it also, there's something to be said for doing what makes you happy, always. I think enthusiasm is a very important thing. Enthusiasm and joy is a very important thing, it's underrated.

• 46:12Speaker 02

  Yeah. So my friend Dennis Bazukia, he just fought in the Albania card, um, bad stoppage by the ref. And I like Jason Herzog, but bad stoppage, he said he tapped, he didn't tap. But I remember his second contender fight, he's cutting weight, and Marab is having a party at his house in Vegas.

• 46:28Speaker 03

  That tap, that was a weird one, that tap was weird.

• 46:31Speaker 02

  He went from locking his hands, to finding his leg and pushing off the leg, and he ruled it as a tap.

• 46:37Speaker 03

  I just don't understand that tap.

• 46:38Speaker 02

  I go, I go, Jason, we've, I've trained with Jason. And I'm not, I'm not attacking him, cause I don't want people thinking, I don't like to attack people, unless they really deserve it. But I go, if you're not sure, cause he said he wasn't sure, he said it looked like a tap. So I go, if it, if you think it looked like it, and you weren't sure, why not just wait? Because if it was, he would do it again.

• 46:58Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 46:58Speaker 02

  But his immediate action after pushing off the leg was to grab between his leg, where you kinda lock your hand from the head and arm. I have the hardest time ever finishing Dennis, and I'm a pretty good black belt in jiu-jitsu, and that's a good position for me. And I had, I struggle, I could count on my hands how many times I probably finished him in that position.

• 47:18Speaker 03

  It's also, it's the classic defense.

• 47:20Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 47:21Speaker 03

  You grab the leg, and that's the best way to prevent the guy from putting all the pressure on the neck, with the, the head and arm. Do you ever go to, do you know what the impaler is? Eddie Bravo calls the impaler? To get out of that position, you, you slide the knee to the sternum? And you finish with the knee on the sternum?

• 47:39Speaker 02

  For the bottom guy.

• 47:40Speaker 03

  For the top guy. So when the guy's defending?

• 47:43Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 47:43Speaker 03

  Yeah, you go knee to sternum, it's fucking brutal, man, it's brutal.

• 47:47Speaker 02

  You're being attacked on two different fronts.

• 47:49Speaker 03

  Uh huh, you, you're being crushed, your sternum's being crushed, and this defense does not work as good anymore. It still gives you a little bit, the, the grabbing the leg and looping over like that, gives you a little bit, but there's something about that crushing on the sternum, and along with the squeeze of the head and arm choke?

• 48:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 48:06Speaker 03

  It's nasty.

• 48:07Speaker 02

  The difference with that, I would imagine you, at least when I've tried it, I try to get it before they get on their side. Cause once they're perpendicular with the ground, it's a little bit hard to get the exact pressure point of what you want. And I go, I try this literally the very next day, and I go, there's no way you could submit somebody with your ass in the air. You're, you could be squeezing as hard as you want, but if your ass is in the air, and this guy's on the side, it's gonna be really difficult to make somebody tap in that position.

• 48:32Speaker 03

  Very hard, depending upon your squeeze ability, right?

• 48:35Speaker 02

  That too.

• 48:35Speaker 03

  Did you see Amsov? When Amsov finished that dude, he did, he did that thing, he's a nasty grappler.

• 48:41Speaker 02

  Bro, and it's crazy, cause he lost to Jason Jackson, and I'm not saying that as a, like a slight, but it's just like, how good is Jason Jackson?

• 48:48Speaker 03

  Jason Jackson's real fucking good.

• 48:50Speaker 02

  And that's my Jamaican brother, he's not signed yet.

• 48:53Speaker 03

  Real good, he needs to be signed to the UFC one hundred, one hundred percent. That guy could crack, and he took him out, man, he took him out, he didn't just beat him.

• 49:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 49:01Speaker 03

  He took Amsov out.

• 49:02Speaker 02

  Cross promote?

• 49:04Speaker 03

  Well, that's not gonna happen.

• 49:07Speaker 02

  I know it's not gonna happen, but.

• 49:08Speaker 03

  I wish Santa Claus was real.

• 49:11Speaker 02

  But I was like, why don't we just find out who's, make it like boxing, you know? Where we can find out who's actually-

• 49:17Speaker 03

  So, look at this, how he finishes. DC and I were actually talking about this, because he goes knee to the belly. See how he does that? Across? Now, if you're grabbing the leg, so if he was grabbing his leg, you would go knee across the chest, and you put it right down on the sternum. But he did that to make sure he was flattened out-

• 49:35Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 49:35Speaker 03

  -to make sure that he couldn't go to the side. But this dude is-

• 49:37Speaker 02

  This is so good.

• 49:38Speaker 03

  -wicked.

• 49:39Speaker 02

  Joel's just looking, he's like, "I can't do anything about that."

• 49:42Speaker 03

  Of course he can fucking, of course he can breakdance. Bro, breakdancing is a great base for jiu-jitsu. We had a bunch of guys, Richie Martinez and Gio Martinez, these guys that came into 10th Planet, way back in the early 2000s. And we were all like, "Oh shit, breakdancing." Like, we never even thought, gymnastics, everybody knew. Like, a guy who could do gymnastics, a guy who was like really good at tumbling, that kind of explosive ability and balance and control, and body strength, totally translates to jiu-jitsu.

• 50:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 50:13Speaker 03

  But we didn't even think about it, like, breakdancing is kind of like a gymnastics. You know, these dudes are doing weird shit where they're on one arm, with their legs, lotus position, above their head, and they're hopping around on one arm? That's crazy!

• 50:26Speaker 02

  It is. Because I try to do it, and I'm like, "Yeah, I can't do that."

• 50:29Speaker 03

  Eddie started doing breakdancing practice as a part of like strength and conditioning training for jiu-jitsu. He started trying breakdancing moves. Eddie's so open-minded, he's always willing to like try something out. Like, the thing about Eddie's classes too, if somebody finishes somebody with something, Eddie will like stop the class, "What did you do?" And it's like, "Oh, I do this, and I grab my foot here." And he's like, "Okay, everybody look at this, come over, come over." And he'll bring everybody over, he'll show it to us, "Show us how you set it up." And he'll show them how he set it up, and they go, "Who thinks they can get out of this? Who thinks they got a move to get out of this?" And then they would all practice different ways to get out of this. And they go, "Well, what if a guy does this? What if a guy does that?" And they break it down, like, he is very, very like open to new moves.

• 51:13Speaker 03

  You know, and it makes his classes very interesting in that regard.

• 51:17Speaker 02

  You guys still train?

• 51:18Speaker 03

  I don't. I haven't trained in a while. I was training with Gabe Tuttle out here for a little bit, but I got one knee, man, that just keeps fucking up, and I do too many, I like to do too many things to want to go through another surgery-

• 51:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 51:32Speaker 03

  -or to deal with something. I just don't want to, it's like, everybody I know that gets to my age that still trains, gets a disc replacement, gets another surgery, gets another surgery. And then when you start getting like back surgeries, or like Matt Serra just got a knee replacement recently, you start getting to that range, it's like, "Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey." This shit's forever.

• 51:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 51:55Speaker 03

  Like, you gotta walk around, you gotta play with your kids, you gotta be able to go hiking, you gotta be able to do things. And if you break your body down, especially through grappling, I still hit the bag, I still, still train, like kickboxing, I still do a lot of working out, I work out constantly. But every time I just start doing jiu-jitsu again, my knee starts throbbing.

• 52:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's, that's kind of similar to Al. Iaquinta.

• 52:21Speaker 03

  Yeah?

• 52:21Speaker 02

  Sucks. I always, I always go like, "I wonder how much more he had in the tank."

• 52:28Speaker 03

  Bro, he gave Khabib a hell of a fight on no notice.

• 52:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 52:31Speaker 03

  No notice.

• 52:32Speaker 02

  And the Khabib fans don't give him any credit for it. They go, "He was playing with him." I go, "Really?" Tell me one fighter who goes out there and tells you that they're just going to play with their opponent.

• 52:44Speaker 03

  Primetime Al was a beast.

• 52:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 52:46Speaker 03

  He was a beast. And he was tough as shit, and game, you know? Isn't he selling real estate now?

• 52:51Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 52:52Speaker 03

  Shout out to Al Iaquinta.

• 52:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, he's doing really well, man.

• 52:55Speaker 03

  Good for him.

• 52:56Speaker 02

  We were working together for a little bit, but then it got to the point where I was like, "Dude, I just don't have the time." It's, I gotta make a decision, and that's when I started doing the rum company and everything. You see how fast time gets absorbed with things?

• 53:09Speaker 03

  Oh yeah, with everything, yeah. I wish I had multiple lives, so I could do multiple different things. Multiple different lives.

• 53:17Speaker 02

  You might be in another dimension.

• 53:19Speaker 03

  Uh, maybe, I would love to. But in this dimension, I have too many interests. I almost wish I didn't have as many things that I'd love to do. I could whittle them down to a few.

• 53:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 53:28Speaker 03

  You know?

• 53:29Speaker 02

  I, I still wanna, I want to learn how you do your spinning back kick. I throw mine, but I know you do yours a little bit of a different way. I remember the video you did with the GSP showing him how you do yours.

• 53:47Speaker 02

  But it's, I like to spin, I like to spin to win.

• 53:50Speaker 03

  Listen, if it lands, the amount of torque that you get on a spin is crazy.

• 53:54Speaker 02

  It's, it's not good.

• 53:57Speaker 03

  What do you do different than the way I do it?

• 53:59Speaker 02

  I don't know, I, I know you're supposed to step, turn the heel, look over the shoulder.

• 54:03Speaker 03

  You can jump as well, you don't have to step. It all, the whole thing is just getting it out in a straight line.

• 54:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 54:09Speaker 03

  And the problem with most people that didn't train, like in a classic Taekwondo school, is that they, it's a circle. Circle can land, it can land, and it can be really powerful if it lands, but it's not going to be as powerful as the way I do it. The way I do it is a turn. And then it, I always say spinning back kick when I do commentary, because everybody understands that.

• 54:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 54:29Speaker 03

  But it's a turning sidekick, is the way we talked about it in Taekwondo. It's a turning sidekick.

• 54:34Speaker 02

  You like fold the damn bag?

• 54:37Speaker 03

  Yeah, I'm, I'm getting maximum amount of energy, maximum efficiency. It's the difference between throwing a punch like this, you can knock somebody out if you throw a punch like this, like a crazy arm punch, and you could hurt them and knock them out 100% of the time. And you could do that once and say, "That's the way to throw a punch." Or, you could learn how to throw a punch Tommy Hearne style, where you're fucking turning your body into it, and you got all that torque, and bang! It catches you on the end in a straight line.

• 55:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 55:03Speaker 03

  And Tommy would just starch people with that, or Deontay Wilder, right? Straight, straight down the pipe. That's the difference between a turning sidekick and when people spin in a circle. So when you spin in a circle, of course it's gonna have power. You have giant legs, your legs carry your body around all day long, you've got the, you're pushing off the other leg, you're spinning with all your torso, yeah, it's gonna have power. But it's not gonna have as much power as the way I do it. The way I throw it, when it lands, it's, everything's going in a straight line, and I'm pushing off my back leg, and I'm getting all my abs into it, my hips into it, and it's just straight, just thud! And I know that if I hit you with that, you're going nowhere.

• 55:43Speaker 02

  You're going down.

• 55:44Speaker 03

  You're going to the hospital, like, you're not gonna make it, man.

• 55:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, I saw you hit the bag, and I was like, "Holy shit, that's a fucking kick and a half right there."

• 55:52Speaker 03

  There's only one video of me online fighting, it's from when I was 19. I was at the US Cup in Connecticut, and I hit this dude with a spinning back kick, and sent him through the air, sent him flying through the air. And I knew, the moment I hit him, I'm like, "This fight's over." I turned around and just walked off casually. I did, because I would like to do that, like fuck with people's heads. But I do, I knew that one move has too much power for your body to absorb. There's no way you can take it, it's just too much. It's like getting hit by a car.

• 56:22Speaker 02

  No, it's nasty, man, it's a nasty kick.

• 56:24Speaker 03

  Like when John landed on Stipe.

• 56:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 56:27Speaker 03

  Just, it just caved his body in, like, Stipe's one of the toughest human beings that's ever walked the face of the earth. But he takes that to the body, like, that's, you're not going nowhere. You're not going nowhere. And John's so smart, like, John practiced that specific technique because he was going up to heavyweight, he was like, "I need something." Because I can't knock guys out with one punch at heavyweight. I can maybe kick them with, but what's the most powerful kick? And he realized, "It's the spinning back kick." So he just drilled it, so three days a week, that's all he would do, is just drill the spinning back kick. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. You've probably heard about BetterHelp before, but maybe you haven't heard from those who have actually used BetterHelp. That feedback can tell you everything you need to know.

• 57:11Speaker 03

  Go to betterhelp.com/reviews, and check out the feedback from hundreds of people saying how much they love this service. It's easy to see why. To get started, all you have to do is answer a few questions, you'll get matched up with a therapist based on your needs, and if it's not the right fit, you can switch therapists at any time. See the reviews, see what stands out, and see if BetterHelp is right for you. Visit betterhelp.com/jre. That's better H E L P dot com slash J R E.

• 57:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, and one thing about John, man, he's such a like, his IQ has always been through the roof.

• 57:53Speaker 03

  His fighting IQ's crazy.

• 57:54Speaker 02

  He understands fighting, and I think that's what sets him apart from everybody else. He understands himself. Like, if you look at him, he could go, "I'm not probably gonna knock anybody out at heavyweight with the way I punch, so..."

• 58:06Speaker 03

  Right.

• 58:06Speaker 02

  "...develop something else," and it worked.

• 58:08Speaker 03

  And that's just reality. That's just the reality of his frame. I mean, you know as well as anybody, it's weird how some people can just punch. They're like, from the moment they get into the gym, the first time they're hitting the pads, like, "What the fuck?" It's a natural gift. Punching power is a weird, natural gift.

• 58:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 58:25Speaker 03

  And either you have it, or you don't. And if you don't have it, you can only develop it so much.

• 58:29Speaker 02

  I'm still trying to figure out if I have it.

• 58:33Speaker 03

  It's physics, man. A lot of it is like the size of your hands.

• 58:37Speaker 02

  And my arms aren't, they're long.

• 58:39Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 58:39Speaker 02

  So someone like a Taporia has like, he's not as long with his, his, uh.

• 58:44Speaker 03

  Taporia's got big ass fists.

• 58:45Speaker 02

  But I always like imitate the Taporia and Conor McGregor. Little Taporia, he's bubba bubba bubba bubba bubba bubba bubba.

• 58:55Speaker 02

  It's just fucking funny shit.

• 58:56Speaker 03

  Well Connor's another example, like big fists, man.

• 58:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 59:00Speaker 03

  Look at that dude's fists, they're giant. That's a big thing.

• 59:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, he got a little, uh, these hands.

• 59:05Speaker 03

  You gotta do what you gotta do.

• 59:06Speaker 02

  These hands are meant for grabbing things.

• 59:07Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, they're really good at that. But that's the beautiful thing about MMA, as opposed to boxing. Like, there's a whole bunch of different ways to finish a fight.

• 59:14Speaker 02

  Yeah. What did you think about the fight with Youssef before the fight happened? Like, in terms of like, uh, I used to text you, like, asking like your opinion, like, what do you think, uh, you know? So I was, I'm curious to know what your thoughts were before the fight, obviously hindsight.

• 59:33Speaker 02

  Cause I know what I thought going into the fight.

• 59:34Speaker 03

  What did you think going into the fight?

• 59:36Speaker 02

  I thought it was gonna probably be one of the hardest fights, for sure. We've trained together multiple times. Back in 2017, we trained together a couple of times within the last two years. And I always knew he moved well on the feet, lateral footwork, great calf kicks. And I, I said to myself, if I get chopped down with a couple of these calf kicks early in the fight, it's gonna be a rough night, especially if I can't move and do what I do, which is, I'm also good at lateral footwork. And he has those nasty knees up the middle that are very quick to end the fight or put you on skates and could get you out of there, right? And he did submit me that one time, so I think that really gave him a lot of confidence coming into it. So those were my thoughts. I was like, for me to win this, I gotta stay on the outside and then put pressure on him when I can put pressure on him.

• 1:00:22Speaker 02

  Take away his calf kicks when I can, by putting him on the back foot, making it a little bit more difficult to land that calf kick with authority, right? So that was my two cents on that. I knew if I could take him down first,

• 1:00:35Speaker 02

  it should go my way.

• 1:00:36Speaker 03

  Well, it worked.

• 1:00:38Speaker 02

  Yeah. It was a little easier than I thought it would have been, but, um.

• 1:00:45Speaker 03

  I think you're a different beast. Yeah, the key team was tight.

• 1:00:50Speaker 02

  I was like, oh, I ain't playing for this. I didn't play for this one.

• 1:00:53Speaker 03

  Yeah, that was tight. Yeah, but you got out of it. And I think you're a different beast at 45. You know, I think you just have more resilience at 45. You're more durable at 45.

• 1:01:03Speaker 02

  More energy, too.

• 1:01:04Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's where it comes from, right? It's, again, I wish we could eliminate weight cutting completely from fighting. And I've had conversations with the UFC about doing it, but there's no real roadmap that makes sense. I think once guys get ingrained in their head that they're gonna cut weight, they're just always gonna cut weight. They're gonna, even if there is weight classes, they're just gonna fight dehydrated. They're gonna figure out a way to be bigger.

• 1:01:28Speaker 02

  I mean, we did it for wrestling and we competed two hours later, sometimes an hour.

• 1:01:33Speaker 03

  But you're not getting punched and kicked in the head. That's the difference.

• 1:01:36Speaker 02

  That's why, that's why I feel if they did same day weigh-ins, kinda like what you do for an amateur, you could get as big as you can get, which is gonna be very little, maybe five pounds. So I go same day weigh-ins, you give them four hours, so this way they can eat and have a nice meal, digest, and then it can still warm up and have enough time to prepare for the fight.

• 1:01:56Speaker 03

  I think for the fighter's own safety, you almost have to protect them from that. And that's why they have the weigh-in the day before, for their own safety. Cause they're, there's guys that are just gonna be stupid and the fights are gonna suffer. They're not gonna be as good. Because you're gonna be more depleted.

• 1:02:10Speaker 02

  I just, I just think there's gonna be

• 1:02:14Speaker 02

  people that understand you can't cut 20 pounds the day of the fight and go and compete. I think that's gonna be the end, like the end all be all, like you're gonna come to the realization, like, hey.

• 1:02:25Speaker 03

  They'll just lose and then it'll weed out the people that are doing that.

• 1:02:28Speaker 02

  And then they'll go, okay, so that didn't work.

• 1:02:31Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:02:31Speaker 02

  I have to go up in a weight class and this makes more sense for me.

• 1:02:34Speaker 03

  Wouldn't it be better if we, look, we have random drug tests, right? They just show, how many times have you been randomly drug tested?

• 1:02:42Speaker 02

  Um, what you saw, probably a lot. Um, I know they have it on the website, you could check how many times people have been tested and whatnot.

• 1:02:49Speaker 03

  So it's just random. Now imagine if they did random, random weigh-ins.

• 1:02:54Speaker 02

  That'd be cool.

• 1:02:55Speaker 03

  Yeah, but then the problem would be, what happens the day of the fight? You know, like, what do you, what if the guy doesn't make weight?

• 1:03:01Speaker 02

  You're back in square one.

• 1:03:02Speaker 03

  Yeah, what if you have a giant pay-per-view or a giant numbered card? Is that dead?

• 1:03:07Speaker 02

  Oh, I was gonna say.

• 1:03:08Speaker 03

  You have a giant numbered card and the guy doesn't cut weight or doesn't, doesn't make weight. What do you do? Do you still have the fight?

• 1:03:15Speaker 02

  I mean, we have the fight now.

• 1:03:17Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:03:17Speaker 02

  So like, what changes?

• 1:03:19Speaker 03

  It would be different if you only had to cut a few pounds, though. Like, if it's, so if you did it that way, random weigh-ins and then weigh-in day of the fight,

• 1:03:29Speaker 03

  even if a guy was heavy, like you weighed in, you know, 137 or whatever, you're like, well, you gotta lose two pounds. Anybody can lose two pounds the day of, and it's not that big a deal.

• 1:03:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:03:39Speaker 03

  If you're not cutting weight already.

• 1:03:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:03:42Speaker 03

  If you're not cutting weight already and you're fully hydrated and you weigh in the scale at 137, 135 is easy.

• 1:03:47Speaker 02

  Or just penalize them, the same way we penalize them now.

• 1:03:50Speaker 03

  Yeah, a guy's just gonna take the penalty and fight bigger.

• 1:03:53Speaker 02

  But it's like, you're already, you're, like, for me, if we did same day weigh-ins, I would have to fight at 155 pounds. There's no way, possibly even 170, because that's the weight class. 165 would be the sweet spot where it's like, this is nice, I don't have to cut. I'm probably gonna fight guys more likely my size and I'm gonna feel good, I'm gonna have the energy to compete. And I'm not dehydrating myself severely. Or 155 where I could diet a little bit, I could still get down, I hold myself for a meal, step on the scale, I could have my meal. Now I feel good, I go compete, but I'm not dieting all the way down to 135 pounds, 145 pounds.

• 1:04:31Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:04:32Speaker 02

  So that's a 10-pound gap. You, you see what I'm saying? So that's why I think the same day, it makes sense, cause you're not as depleted, where it wouldn't be as severe in comparison to what we're doing now.

• 1:04:43Speaker 03

  I think that would be smart, but I think the only way that's really gonna happen is if you have more weight classes, like at least every 10 pounds. I mean, look at boxing. Boxing has so many more weight classes than the UFC. Like, how many weight classes are there in boxing?

• 1:04:56Speaker 02

  Too many.

• 1:04:57Speaker 03

  There's a lot. There's a lot.

• 1:04:59Speaker 02

  Every three pounds sometimes.

• 1:05:00Speaker 03

  Well, the lighter weights, right? When you get down to like atom weight and straw weight and fly weight, like their fly weights are fucking tiny. You know, like, their bantam weight is what? It's not 135.

• 1:05:13Speaker 02

  It's lower.

• 1:05:14Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's like 126 or something. What's bantam weight? 118?

• 1:05:18Speaker 02

  118.

• 1:05:19Speaker 03

  That's crazy. Minimum weight, that's crazy. Imagine telling a lady that in the bar? What do you do?

• 1:05:25Speaker 02

  135 is a light weight.

• 1:05:26Speaker 03

  What weight do you fight at?

• 1:05:27Speaker 02

  Minimum weight.

• 1:05:30Speaker 03

  I've never even heard of that.

• 1:05:32Speaker 02

  Minimum weight is crazy.

• 1:05:33Speaker 03

  Yeah. I mean, but this is also why Manny Pacquiao was able to go up and win world championships in eight different weight classes, which is fucking bananas.

• 1:05:42Speaker 02

  It's cool, though.

• 1:05:43Speaker 03

  It's crazy. But, so go back to that again, please? So, look at the difference in the gaps when you get to the top. You got 122 to 126, only four pounds. 130, another six pounds, 35, another five pounds. It's kinda random. Five more pounds to 40, seven pounds to welterweight, 47. That's another stupid thing that we do, where we have, uh, you have welterweight in boxing, which has existed since the beginning of time, and it's always been 147. Sugar Ray Leonard, Tommy Hearns, all those people, Roberto Duran, 147. Our welterweight, 170. Like, it doesn't even make any sense. Come up with another name.

• 1:06:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:06:27Speaker 03

  What's a welterweight? You just, it's something somebody made up. It doesn't even make sense.

• 1:06:30Speaker 02

  I just think we're, we're like the Americans versus the Europeans. We just wanna go against the grain. Like, we have inches instead of centimeters, like what we use in metrics and pounds versus kilos. Like, we just, we just said, fuck everything you're doing, we're gonna do everything different. We're just gonna challenge everything that you're doing.

• 1:06:49Speaker 03

  There's a little of that, too, but I think they just wanted recognizable names when they came up with weight classes. Cause remember, there was only two at one point in time.

• 1:06:58Speaker 02

  Was it lightweight and?

• 1:07:00Speaker 03

  I don't remember, but when Frank Shamrock was fighting in his day, it was like 200.

• 1:07:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:07:07Speaker 03

  He fought at 200. And then there was, uh, heavyweight.

• 1:07:13Speaker 02

  So yeah, I don't even know. I don't know what those weight cla- I used to watch, but I didn't know shit. I just watched.

• 1:07:19Speaker 03

  I think it should just be the number you weigh. It should be fighting the world champion at 170 pounds. That's what it should be. Like wrestling doesn't have names for the weight classes.

• 1:07:28Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:07:28Speaker 03

  You just have weights.

• 1:07:29Speaker 02

  We don't.

• 1:07:30Speaker 03

  Just have weights. That's what it should be. Like this is stupid. Fuck is a welterweight? What the fuck is a strawweight? What's an atomweight? You know, shut up. What's a flyweight? Fuck off.

• 1:07:41Speaker 02

  It's very-

• 1:07:42Speaker 03

  You don't weigh with a flyweight. This is stupid. Flyweight's a dumb name. The 125 pound champion of the world.

• 1:07:50Speaker 02

  Minimum weight is a ridiculous name.

• 1:07:52Speaker 03

  Ridiculous. Nobody wants to be minimum weight. I'd rather fight fat.

• 1:07:58Speaker 02

  Minimum weight. I never even knew that was a thing until just now.

• 1:08:02Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's probably tiny little dudes. There's a few dudes that fight in atomweight in 1FC in their kickboxing division that are wild, man. It's incredible to watch. They're so fast. It's like they're defying space and time. You know, and they're super skillful.

• 1:08:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, there was, there was the one guy I saw, the Japanese fighter. No, not Japanese fighter. The guy doing Muay Thai, the um, well, there is a Japanese fighter, the guy in Ryzen who fought, uh, Patchi Mix.

• 1:08:32Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, dude. That dude's a beast.

• 1:08:34Speaker 02

  The fuck was that?

• 1:08:36Speaker 03

  That dude was a beast.

• 1:08:37Speaker 02

  I was like, this guy's been hiding over here the whole time and the world doesn't know who this man is. This guy is a savage.

• 1:08:42Speaker 03

  Yeah, he, he lit Patchi on fire. That was incredible.

• 1:08:46Speaker 02

  Patchi's not a striker, but he's competent enough.

• 1:08:50Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:08:50Speaker 02

  But that was like, he exposed like everything, every flaw that he has as a stand-up guy, he took full advantage of it. I was like, dude, this guy's fighting like he's in the Matrix right now.

• 1:08:59Speaker 03

  There's a bunch of those guys that exist out there in the world now. You know, it's, it's a different world that we live in.

• 1:09:06Speaker 02

  The Dagestan guy, I think that's, that guy.

• 1:09:08Speaker 03

  There's a lot of them. There's a lot of them. There's the, the guy who fights in the PFL, Magomedov, uh, who's fucking nasty, man. And he fights exactly like the guy who I think might be the best striker in the world, who's just a Muay Thai guy. Azadullah Iman Gazaliyev.

• 1:09:23Speaker 02

  I think that's the guy.

• 1:09:24Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:09:24Speaker 02

  I can't say that.

• 1:09:25Speaker 03

  Bro.

• 1:09:26Speaker 02

  I can't say that.

• 1:09:27Speaker 03

  It's a tough one to say. Um, that guy's nasty. But this, this guy, Magomedov, did you see the PFL?

• 1:09:33Speaker 02

  I didn't get to watch it, uh, last weekend.

• 1:09:35Speaker 03

  He fought, uh, in the PFL and he fights just like Iman Gazaliyev. And they're both from Dagestan, so guarantee you these guys are training together.

• 1:09:44Speaker 02

  That was the one last weekend, right?

• 1:09:45Speaker 03

  Uh huh.

• 1:09:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, we had one guy on that card. His name is Levon. He's nasty from, uh, Ossetia.

• 1:09:53Speaker 02

  The caucus regions.

• 1:09:54Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 1:09:54Speaker 02

  Um, but he's, he's a nasty striker.

• 1:09:57Speaker 03

  There's so many of those guys right now that are coming up that no one knows and they're world-class. They're like elite world-class fighters and no one knows who they are. It's kind of crazy.

• 1:10:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:10:08Speaker 03

  It's like the amount of like world championship caliber, potential world championship caliber fighters out there, never been higher.

• 1:10:16Speaker 02

  Imagine talking shit to that guy.

• 1:10:20Speaker 02

  All because you didn't know who he was and you're just like, ah!

• 1:10:23Speaker 03

  It's a problem out there in the world right now. There's so many guys who could fight as opposed to-

• 1:10:28Speaker 02

  Just be nice. Just be nice.

• 1:10:29Speaker 03

  Just be nice.

• 1:10:29Speaker 02

  Don't talk shit. Yeah. Don't talk shit, everything will be okay.

• 1:10:32Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, how hard is it? So tell me what you think about this weekend. Islam versus Ian Gary.

• 1:10:39Speaker 02

  So...

• 1:10:42Speaker 02

  What's fascinating about this matchup is how well Ian Gary can control the range.

• 1:10:49Speaker 02

  I think he's gonna be much bigger than Islam in a sense of height, reach advantage. Um, in terms of size, I'd never thought Ian was the biggest welterweight. I still don't think he is.

• 1:10:59Speaker 03

  Well, he can't be. He's so tall, he can't be thick.

• 1:11:02Speaker 02

  No, but in a sense, even when you're talking just from a weight standpoint, from what he was walking around at.

• 1:11:07Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:11:07Speaker 02

  I forgot what he told me he walked around at, but he wasn't cutting a whole lot of weight.

• 1:11:10Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:11:11Speaker 02

  I want to say off the top of my head, maybe 10 pounds.

• 1:11:13Speaker 03

  Which is why he's so healthy.

• 1:11:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:11:15Speaker 03

  He has such energy.

• 1:11:17Speaker 02

  So I go, you're cutting just this and you're going out there and doing this to these guys? Who are, you know, essentially bigger, heavier guys, um, but he's got the speed advantage. Uh, the thing about Islam, he's such a complete fighter. He could do everything. But this will be the first time he's got a, a test with a guy who's a long man. And can he get inside, take him down? I don't think he's gonna stand up and strike with him. He can, but I just don't think that's the path to victory against a guy like Ian.

• 1:11:44Speaker 03

  I don't think he has any plans of standing up and striking with him other than as a means to an end.

• 1:11:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:11:49Speaker 03

  And, and his grappling is so high level. His, I- Islam's grappling right now is at the top of the food chain.

• 1:11:56Speaker 02

  I always wanted to grapple with those guys, just to see where I'm at.

• 1:12:00Speaker 03

  You should go over there.

• 1:12:01Speaker 02

  Um, I remember when Al fought Khabib and Al might've been like the only guy who was able to like escape certain positions multiple times where most guys, they kind of just concede the feet and they just fold.

• 1:12:15Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:12:15Speaker 02

  Um, and we were talking afterwards, he goes like, "I think you would actually do really well grappling with him." And I'm like, "Bro, you're trying to get me killed right now."

• 1:12:27Speaker 02

  He's trying to get me killed by the bear. But, um, whenever, when he said that, it kind of stuck with me. I'm like, man, I, just from my own like experience, not like a ego thing or anything like that. Just be cool to see, and I would like for them to put it on me, just so I can see like where I'm at, see if I'm, how my strength measures up with theirs positionally. Um, IQ, knowing when to transition to certain spots. Of course, the weight's gonna play a big advantage. But it's still cool, cause I grapple with bigger guys. I've grappled with Wyman. And I always tell Chris, like, I wish we were the same size, cause you would've been my main training partner, bro. You know, cause that would've been cool, like kind of coming up that way.

• 1:13:03Speaker 02

  But you know, obviously Murab was my guy, Al was my guy, Dennis.

• 1:13:07Speaker 03

  Well, having Murab as a training partner must've been an awesome advantage.

• 1:13:10Speaker 02

  Oh, it's the greatest. This is like, there's no, there's no replicating that. And I see guys outside of, like they'll watch and they'll think like, you know, eh, he's kind of like all over the place. He's not really... And then they'll go in there with him and go, ah, yeah, it feels a little different now. Now that you've been in there with the guy. It's, it's a whole different beast to watch from the outside. You're like, what is he actually good at? But it's just like the chaos that he brings, always constantly challenging your nervous system, uh, reacting to his feints, his movement. He's just, he's just always giving you something to think about. And I remember GSP talked about that, just saying like, you want to use your feints to challenge the nervous system, get guys to react.

• 1:13:55Speaker 02

  Because eventually you start to slow, like in the beginning, we're, we're quick twitchy, right? We can react to everything. We're super sharp. As time starts to go on, those reaction times starts to go a little bit slower. You don't react as fast or as quickly. And things that were landing, weren't landing or now landing.

• 1:14:13Speaker 03

  Feras talks about that a lot.

• 1:14:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:14:15Speaker 03

  I think that's where George got it.

• 1:14:16Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:14:17Speaker 03

  Feras, very smart dude.

• 1:14:18Speaker 02

  So...

• 1:14:19Speaker 03

  Very smart dude when it comes to like strategy and understanding like what's going on with fighters and why they're reacting to certain things and what to do and how to counter. It's not guesswork. It's like a very, a really intelligent, structured system. This episode is brought to you by Chime. And I know people don't usually get excited about banking, but Chime is doing something different and it's worth paying attention to. In a recent survey, they ranked the number one choice for new checking accounts in America. That means real people, millions of them, are choosing this over traditional banks.

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• 1:16:54Speaker 02

  What to do?

• 1:16:55Speaker 03

  Yeah, you have to be like that.

• 1:16:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:16:57Speaker 03

  I think some guys, they train and then they go and fight.

• 1:17:01Speaker 02

  Without any goal in mind. And I tried to preach this because I used to coach at Longos a lot before, you know, running a lot of my own practices, training camps and stuff like that. So I took over the, the role of, you know what, we're going to add these two MMA classes in. And when we come in, we're going to work on specific things for my fight. And anybody who has a fight, and if I'm not fighting, we're going to focus on you guys. And even if I have a fight, we'll also work in positions that you guys need to work on. And I always try to explain to guys, like, when you're coming in, you should have a mission. Don't just waste an hour, hour and a half of training, just to say I trained. That's cool if you don't have a fight, but you should always be looking for something to get better at, something that you can improve at. When you're sparring, hey, you're not just going in there to spar. There should be an intent.

• 1:17:46Speaker 02

  Your sparring partner should be looking to give you a look for the fight. And you shouldn't be looking to be a complete asshole and kill your sparring partner because then nobody wants to spar with you. Right? They're doing you a favor. And you need the favor from them to get where you want to be, to make sure all the things that you're drilling on the pads, drilling with your partners one-on-one. And then when you go into sparring and you're putting it together, pull it from 100%, pull it down to like 70. This way you can work in real time. I call it guided discovery. I learned this at SUNY Cortland when I was studying to be a PE major.

• 1:18:15Speaker 03

  Guided discovery?

• 1:18:17Speaker 02

  Yeah. So you're, you're working on certain things. And say we're doing wrestling and you're learning the position. I show you a high crotch. You grab the, the tricep or you post it, you shoot the high crotch, which means your head is on the outside. And I attack the leg. Two hands are now locked on that outside leg. My head is on the outside and I'm in a strong position and my posture's straight. And now you're learning defense. Okay. So from a defensive position, a guy shoots this shot, super clean, super perfect. What are my choices that I can make? What are the options? I could turn the head to the inside, stuff the head. I could push the head further to the outside and stuff the head to the outside where his head already is and look to cut the corner. Or I could use my, stuff the head and use my, my wizard or tight waist, plugging the,

• 1:19:02Speaker 02

  the hip, stuffing the head and rotating my hips. And if he puts me down to the mat, what is my responses from that? So then you're chaining everything together and you got, you kind of got a system of my responses. So I'm not just doing stuff based on instinct. Instinct is good, but you should also have instinctual habits, if that makes sense. Like stuff that you know will work.

• 1:19:23Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:19:24Speaker 02

  And then you fine tune it to know, this is my line of defense. If he goes here and I feel him going this way, I go this way. And if he's starting to turn the other way, then I know I need to do this and turn his head the other way. Put my pressure on my weight in another position so that I can now create this space so I can escape and get my leg out.

• 1:19:40Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:19:41Speaker 02

  And a lot of guys, they're, they're not trained like that. They're going, they're sparring, they're just throwing a bunch of punches. Maybe they're throwing set combos at the head on the pads, but how are you setting it up? Are you feinting, moving him towards the cage, looking for the, the gap where the octagon kind of changes, where it's no longer like a flat surface and it's cutting at an angle where you take away a little real estate? And then you're trapping them where there's not a lot of room for them to get back from. But now you can set up your strikes and know where you're trying to go. But if I'm cutting him off and he constantly does this and he maybe juke steps me and goes back the other direction and I'm starting my combination, now he's gone. So it's like, how do you set up all these things that you know exactly where you want to go? Because he's going to have an option in the fight in real time, but in trainings where

• 1:20:24Speaker 02

  you should be working out the kinks and understanding this. And I, I truly feel this is one of the things I'd done so well early on in my career and why I was teaching a class because I felt like the guys needed it. I was taking these guys down at will. There was no resistance. I'm like, I'm good, but how good am I actually? Because these guys just, they just don't know. They don't have the information. Okay, let's level them up. Now these guys are leveled up. It makes it harder for me. Now I have to improve what I'm doing and I have to bring a different approach. Okay, he knows how to do this now. So when I do this, I can't just get an easy takedown where I'm just going to sit him to his butt. He's now challenging me with a wizard, stuffing my head, breaking my posture. Now I'm elongated, I'm on the ground, maybe I'm on both knees.

• 1:21:08Speaker 02

  How do I readjust, post my hand, get height again, attacking the legs, taking them back the other way? Or coming through the middle, through the crotch and finishing a takedown like what we call, some people call it Iranian or we call it an all-American finish. But there's just so many little nuances and I feel in MMA, people are still training just to train. And I think that's the difference between understanding your timing. You know the same moves, but if I know a faster, if I know how to react faster than you, I'm going to win that position or the situation every single time. Unless you throw caution to the wind and then it's just some random wild card that I just get caught by, which if I'm aware, it should, the chance of that should be very, very low.

• 1:21:48Speaker 03

  Well, that's the benefit of teaching the people that you're training with everything you know. That way you must come up with a new solution.

• 1:21:54Speaker 02

  Not everything.

• 1:21:55Speaker 03

  And you're forcing it. Not everything? Not everything? What do you hold back? What do you hold back?

• 1:21:59Speaker 02

  Not everything.

• 1:22:01Speaker 03

  Get close.

• 1:22:03Speaker 02

  I can't let you get close.

• 1:22:04Speaker 03

  But that's also world champion mindset versus someone who's just a fighter, who fights and does well and is a good fighter. But there's so many times where I watch guys fight and I watch exchanges and they're wading towards each other and throwing bombs at each other and one guy wins and one guy loses. But I'm like, this is not the ultimate way to do this. This is a, you can do it. You can be a battering ram and a blunt force object and you can get it done. You know, like we've seen so many fights that have just been insane first round wars. And then we've seen guys that just are slick and they're moving around and switching stances and doing wild shit that you don't expect and overwhelming the, the other guy's nervous system and, and not getting hit and, and doing things where you're like, oh my God,

• 1:22:49Speaker 03

  that's so sweet, that's so smooth. And those are the guys that are going to excel and those are the guys that are going to really take it to the next level.

• 1:22:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:22:57Speaker 03

  And I think when you're talking about all these guys, like the caucus guys, these Dagestani guys, these so many guys that are coming up right now that are so fucking high level. Like you can't have any flaws in your game anymore. You can't just be a guy who wades at someone and tries to throw bombs in hopes they land. Maybe, maybe that works on a regional scene. Maybe that works with training partners that are a lower level than you. But you're going to get pieced up if you fight someone who's really good. But it, there's levels and levels and levels and the levels are changing all the time. The levels are moving up all the time. If you just go back to the Ultimate Fighter, season one, that's 2005. That's not that long ago in regular sports. 2005 boxers look pretty similar to 2026 boxers.

• 1:23:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:23:43Speaker 03

  You know, pretty fucking similar at the world championship level. And MMA, man, there's no comparison. It's nuts.

• 1:23:49Speaker 02

  Night and day.

• 1:23:50Speaker 03

  Night and day. And these guys are getting better all the time. I see guys coming off the contender series. I'm like, okay, this guy looks like a world champion, like right now.

• 1:23:59Speaker 02

  It's crazy.

• 1:24:01Speaker 03

  That Ethan Ewing kid, that guy comes out of nowhere.

• 1:24:04Speaker 02

  Matrix.

• 1:24:05Speaker 03

  And, and he's fighting so smooth and so slick and so intelligent and the footwork and the feints and the movement and knowing what to do at any given time. And you're like, these guys are just so good now. They're so good.

• 1:24:19Speaker 02

  I was bummed that when he got hurt for that fight with Farren.

• 1:24:22Speaker 03

  Yeah, that was a bummer.

• 1:24:23Speaker 02

  Farren did have a tough fight though, but I was curious to see how that one was going to go because Ian, to me is the dark horse in that division right now.

• 1:24:31Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:24:32Speaker 02

  Easily.

• 1:24:32Speaker 03

  Yeah. Yeah, he's, the Wellmaker fight was a big wake up call to people. And then he fought that Brazilian cat and just lit him on fire.

• 1:24:40Speaker 02

  Two undefeated guys, back to back.

• 1:24:42Speaker 03

  And it's the way he did it too, man. It was so slick. And you realize like there are levels and these guys coming up right now, they're already at a level that's above and beyond world championship level of 15 years ago.

• 1:24:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:24:55Speaker 03

  It's crazy.

• 1:24:56Speaker 02

  It's really amazing.

• 1:24:56Speaker 03

  Two fights in the UFC. And you know, 20 years ago, you would have said he was the GOAT.

• 1:25:02Speaker 02

  But it, it, what's fascinating is like, from a striking standpoint, you could see that and look at a guy and go, this guy is the real deal. But then you kind of wonder like, well, what happens later in the rounds if a guy does take him down and how can he adjust to those takedowns in terms of a cardio standpoint, lactic acid buildup? Can he turn it around and still be as efficient, as effective?

• 1:25:23Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:25:24Speaker 02

  So there's so many like variables when it comes to things like that. And when people are game planning and approaching fights, those are the things I like to think about. First round, everyone is dangerous. Everyone is so skilled, but it's like, okay, if I can get out of the first round, what does the fight start to look like? How do I paint the picture? If it goes in this direction, he's able to get off a couple of these things and I'm beaten up a little bit. What are my, what are my fallback defenses to try to turn the tide a little bit and get it back to going where the ball's now back in my court?

• 1:25:55Speaker 03

  Well, that was why I was so interested in seeing what happens in the Conor McGregor, Max Holloway fight. Which was crazy. That, that, the, the result was ridiculous. But take that away. I was interested because I was like, if Connor can't take him out quickly, Max Holloway does not get tired. He does not get tired. And he's so accustomed to that five round pace. He understands when to hit the gas, when to back off. He knows when to move, when to, and he's always moving and side, it's like, you want to talk about getting overwhelmed. Like Max Holloway overwhelms people with pressure, pace and feints and skill.

• 1:26:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:26:38Speaker 03

  And he's not going anywhere. You, you guarantee he's going to be fighting in the fourth round, just like he was fighting in the first round. He's not going to fade.

• 1:26:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:26:48Speaker 03

  It was one of the worst matchups for Connor if he couldn't take him out of the first round.

• 1:26:54Speaker 02

  I was, I was hoping we got to see more. I think the world was hoping to see.

• 1:26:58Speaker 03

  Well, you hope we got to see anything. We didn't see anything.

• 1:27:02Speaker 02

  But it's, it's crazy because he threw that same kick in the back room, but this time he runs at him and he throws it and lands and it's like, oh.

• 1:27:08Speaker 03

  Well, he threw that kick when you're hitting a pad is very different than when you're kicking the air. You never throw that kick in the air. You throw that kick jumping in the air, the amount of torque that is on your supporting leg is bananas. You're just hoping and praying that your knee stays together. Look, if you throw a jumping sidekick, that's a different thing. You're landing on the ground, you're landing in a linear way, right? When you're rotating and kicking and flying through the air at the same time and your opponent adjusts, so you're trying to like change the arc in, in midair, try to catch him as he's circling off. It's the worst kick to jump and throw.

• 1:27:47Speaker 02

  So I gotta stop doing that.

• 1:27:49Speaker 03

  With jumping roundhouse kicks? Jumping roundhouse kicks are great if you're close enough to land them.

• 1:27:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:27:54Speaker 03

  You know? If you're close enough to land them. Who was that guy that landed it on Bonfim? Uh, no, not on Bonfim, on, um, on James Vick in Karate Combat. Did you see that? He throws that jumping switch kick.

• 1:28:08Speaker 02

  Brazilian guy?

• 1:28:08Speaker 03

  Yes. Yes.

• 1:28:13Speaker 02

  Gabriel?

• 1:28:13Speaker 03

  The turn, what is his name? Alves. Rafael Alves.

• 1:28:17Speaker 02

  That was close.

• 1:28:17Speaker 03

  It was one of the worst KOs I've ever seen in my life.

• 1:28:21Speaker 02

  But why is James Vick still fighting?

• 1:28:23Speaker 03

  Uh, he likes fighting, I guess.

• 1:28:25Speaker 02

  Oh, he's only 37. I'm 37. My bad, bro.

• 1:28:27Speaker 03

  He's had a lot of KOs.

• 1:28:28Speaker 02

  My bad, cuz.

• 1:28:29Speaker 03

  Unfortunately. And this dude, he hit him with this, this jumping just right before that.

• 1:28:35Speaker 02

  Well, he looks like a tank compared to him.

• 1:28:37Speaker 03

  Well, it's just the, his speed is crazy. James Vick is tall and very skillful too. But it's just, this kick would have knocked him out at any point in his career, any point in his career, at any human being. Like, this is too much. There's the, the amount of force that he lands when he lands this kick, when he throws that, he throws the jumping roundhouse kick, touches him with the right leg and then comes up top with the left and just clean across the chin.

• 1:29:05Speaker 02

  They're doing some good stuff at Karate Combat.

• 1:29:07Speaker 03

  Yeah, man.

• 1:29:08Speaker 02

  It's fun.

• 1:29:08Speaker 03

  Robelis was fighting there, right before that, Jamie.

• 1:29:11Speaker 02

  I think he had a combined.

• 1:29:11Speaker 03

  A little further ahead. Go to like right below, before where the Brazilian flag is.

• 1:29:17Speaker 02

  Robelis combined fights in, um, Karate Combat was like, what? Less than two minutes?

• 1:29:22Speaker 03

  I know. He just, there it is. There it is. So let's watch that again. Back it up again. So watch how he throws it. Boom. I mean, it is clean shin to the jaw. I mean, there's no.

• 1:29:33Speaker 02

  Why's he pointing at him?

• 1:29:34Speaker 03

  I don't know. He's upset.

• 1:29:35Speaker 02

  Talking shit? And now he's, now he's bowing and praying?

• 1:29:38Speaker 03

  Well, I mean, he realized after it was over how serious it was. So watch this. Touches him with the right and then the left comes. I mean, it's literally perfect. That probably would have KO'd him at any point in the time in his career. And when James has been in the amount of wars that he's been in.

• 1:29:53Speaker 02

  And then your head hits the canvas is the worst part.

• 1:29:56Speaker 03

  He could have died. That was one of those ones where he could have died. Because I think he was in the intensive care for quite a while after this fight.

• 1:30:05Speaker 02

  Really?

• 1:30:05Speaker 03

  Yeah, he was hospitalized for quite a while after this fight. And I think it was pretty simple, pretty serious.

• 1:30:10Speaker 02

  That sucks.

• 1:30:10Speaker 03

  It was a bad head kick. That was a bad one.

• 1:30:13Speaker 02

  It's a rough sport.

• 1:30:13Speaker 03

  It's a rough sport. And there's times.

• 1:30:15Speaker 02

  You don't play fighting. You don't play.

• 1:30:17Speaker 03

  There's times where guys get KO'd and they're never the same again. You know, like Terry Edom, when Edson Barboza hit him with that wheel kick?

• 1:30:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:30:24Speaker 03

  Terry Edom was a real contender before that fight. And we never really saw him after that. He never really achieved those levels again.

• 1:30:31Speaker 02

  I don't even, did he even fight after that? I don't, maybe once?

• 1:30:34Speaker 03

  Maybe, maybe. I don't know. Not sure. But that fight essentially ended his career because it was so, I mean, and again, that's one of those kicks. The, the wheel kick has so much torque.

• 1:30:45Speaker 02

  Bro, I, I remember my fight with Marlin and I thought I was gonna be one of those guys. I was so, like, I don't say paranoid, but nervous, concerned, any adjective that you could use to describe it. I was just like, man.

• 1:31:01Speaker 03

  After the fight?

• 1:31:02Speaker 02

  After the fight.

• 1:31:03Speaker 03

  Of getting hit like that again?

• 1:31:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:31:04Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:31:05Speaker 02

  Not even getting hit like that again, if I can even take a shot. And mind you, I, I have my phys ed degree. I could have went and just been a gym teacher. I would have been summers off, pension, I would have had health insurance, the whole nine. And I decided to chase a crazy dream. Thankfully it worked out and, um, I'm blessed for this life and, um, all that good stuff. But after that fight, man, to tell you, like, the concern I had if I would be able to make another two paychecks. I was like, I'm gonna do one more. Whatever happens, happens. If I get knocked out, I'm just done. I gave it a good shot. I've rolled the dice. Thanks for coming. See you later. Thanks for the memories. But, um,

• 1:31:45Speaker 02

  thankfully it worked out and I was able to keep on pushing. I remember after that fight, I didn't spar for like three months. And the next fight I had with.

• 1:31:53Speaker 03

  A lot of people think you should take even more time off than that.

• 1:31:56Speaker 02

  I needed the money. And that's the shitty part about this, this gig.

• 1:32:00Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:32:01Speaker 02

  You need the money, you need the money. I'm, I'm living in New York at the time. So Long Island's fucking expensive. And I'm subbing as a teacher, I'm coaching, wrestling. And when the training camp came up, I was fighting Brett Johns undefeated, three and on the UFC, just came off a 30 second cast slicer submission over Joe Soto. Mind you, Joe Soto submitted me probably, I think, five times in five minutes. So I'm looking at this guy like this guy is a wizard, you know what I mean? So this is my perception of him going into this fight. And I told the guys, hey, I'm gonna spar these last three, four weeks. I'm gonna, I'm gonna just circle and I'm gonna wrestle. I was like, you guys try to hit me, but just know, I'm, I don't wanna get hit in the head.

• 1:32:41Speaker 02

  But try to hit me. I, I still wanna have like my awareness, but the whole, that whole last three, four weeks, everything was just grappling before that, striking, hitting pads, cardio. I was like, I'm gonna just use my footwork and whatever I could do. And thankfully it worked out.

• 1:32:56Speaker 03

  How much time between the Marlin fight and that fight was there?

• 1:32:58Speaker 02

  April, December 9th, 2017.

• 1:33:02Speaker 03

  So it was four months?

• 1:33:03Speaker 02

  Just about, yeah. Which was scary. It was scary. And they offered me to fight. I was like, I don't know if I'm supposed to be doing this right now, but I kinda need the money, so.

• 1:33:14Speaker 03

  Well, you needed the money, but if I could have given advice to like Volkanovski, I would have said, first of all, I would have said, never take a fight with Islam Makachev on 11 days' notice. That's just crazy.

• 1:33:26Speaker 02

  Never.

• 1:33:26Speaker 03

  Especially when you're not training at all. You're just kinda chilling. And you take a fight with one of the best pound for pound fighters, if not the best, on, on the planet, and you get head kicked. And then to fight Ilya just a few months after that is kinda crazy.

• 1:33:42Speaker 02

  Yeah. And he, he was looking good in that first round until Ilya does what he does, traps you against that black line, against the cage, and he puts those combinations on you and puts the lights out. And yeah, I, I agree. He should have taken more time.

• 1:33:57Speaker 03

  A hundred percent.

• 1:33:57Speaker 02

  He would have been okay with taking more time.

• 1:33:59Speaker 03

  You've gotta take more time. You have to. You just have to realize that as tough as you are, your body is a machine. And if the machine's broken, it's gotta be repaired. And it's gonna take time to repair. It's not as simple as like you go to the shop, you get a new carburetor, you're good to go. You gotta, you gotta give your body time to, to heal. And with the head, it's hard because you don't know.

• 1:34:20Speaker 02

  Yeah. It's the wild, it's the wild card.

• 1:34:22Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's a wild card.

• 1:34:23Speaker 02

  And everyone is different. And I kinda wonder if that's something to do with like the way people grow up, if maybe they dropped it on their head a couple of times when they were kids.

• 1:34:32Speaker 03

  Sure. Football, play football in high school, get KO'd a few times doing that. You know, you get KO'd a few times doing stupid shit with your friends.

• 1:34:41Speaker 02

  And then you get older and now you're trying to compete and you realize I can't take a shot.

• 1:34:45Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:34:45Speaker 02

  As much as I thought I could have. And like you see a guy like Diego Lopez and you're like, dude, you gotta, his, his chin is granite, bro. It's like, what can you hit him with that can actually put him down? It's crazy.

• 1:34:57Speaker 03

  Well, if he continues getting hit, there'll be a time.

• 1:35:01Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:35:01Speaker 03

  Like, remember Chuck Liddell? Chuck Liddell in the early days was bulletproof. He was bulletproof. He would just wade at guys, bite down his mouthpiece, eat shots to the head and take guys out. And he didn't give a fuck. He, he had full confidence in his chin. And would force guys into these chaotic wars.

• 1:35:19Speaker 02

  And then it comes a time.

• 1:35:20Speaker 03

  Goes away. And then one day you get hit and it just goes.

• 1:35:24Speaker 02

  Well, left hand, broken hand from Rich Franklin that hit Chuck.

• 1:35:29Speaker 03

  Well, yeah. He broke Rich's arm, right?

• 1:35:32Speaker 02

  Yeah. And then, yeah. And with that broken hand, he hit him.

• 1:35:34Speaker 03

  Is that what he knocked him out with? A broken arm?

• 1:35:36Speaker 02

  From what I remember, that's what he hit him with, that left hand and put him out. And I was like.

• 1:35:39Speaker 03

  That was, he was done at that point. His chin was done. I mean, after Rampage KO'd, KO'd him, that was kind of, that was the big one.

• 1:35:47Speaker 02

  That was a nasty one.

• 1:35:48Speaker 03

  That was a nasty one. Yeah.

• 1:35:50Speaker 02

  I always wanted to be like the mini Rampage, but I was like, but I'm not knocking anybody out. So it's, uh, it's hard to do that.

• 1:35:57Speaker 03

  Rampage could crack.

• 1:35:59Speaker 02

  And the wolf.

• 1:36:00Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:36:00Speaker 02

  Ooh. Always wanted to do that.

• 1:36:03Speaker 03

  And Rampage did it all natural. Whereas everybody else was doing Juice, especially in Pride. You know, he was fighting all Juice monsters. Everyone was a Juice monster in Pride.

• 1:36:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:36:13Speaker 03

  You know?

• 1:36:14Speaker 02

  It's a different time back then.

• 1:36:16Speaker 03

  He still has the craziest slam KO of all time, of all time.

• 1:36:19Speaker 02

  Arona, right?

• 1:36:20Speaker 03

  Yep. When Arona didn't let go of the triangle.

• 1:36:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:36:23Speaker 03

  And he takes him over the top of his head like a pillow.

• 1:36:26Speaker 02

  And.

• 1:36:26Speaker 03

  And slams him down. Oh my God. That was another one. Arona was never the same again after that fight.

• 1:36:32Speaker 02

  What about Cyborg? And that knee from MVP?

• 1:36:35Speaker 03

  That was the craziest.

• 1:36:36Speaker 02

  Freaking dented his cranium.

• 1:36:38Speaker 03

  Crushed his skull. Literally crushed his skull. Broke his skull open.

• 1:36:45Speaker 02

  This is gonna sound like a joke, but I go like, what do you do? Plunge it to pull it back?

• 1:36:49Speaker 03

  You gotta reconstruct it. You ever see what they did to it?

• 1:36:52Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:36:52Speaker 03

  They put all these plates in his head. Yeah, he had all sorts of screws and plates and everything to piece his head back together again, because his skull structure has been compromised.

• 1:37:01Speaker 02

  What does it do to your brain? Your brain is now squished.

• 1:37:04Speaker 03

  Not good. I mean, he said after the fight, "I'll be back," but everybody's like, "No, you won't." No, that's what it looked like. I mean, that is literally crazy.

• 1:37:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, bro.

• 1:37:15Speaker 03

  I saw a Muay Thai fight recently online where a guy did that to a dude with an elbow, and it caved his head in, and you see like this giant hole in his forehead where his head's dented in. And the referee's like, "Stop the fight." He's like, "Why are you stopping the fight?" He's like, "Bro." You need to see what you look like.

• 1:37:33Speaker 02

  You're not seeing what I'm seeing.

• 1:37:34Speaker 03

  Yeah, your head's dented. Your head's broken, like you have a broken head.

• 1:37:40Speaker 03

  It's amazing how few times that's happened. If you think about it, yeah, this is it. This is it. Look at that.

• 1:37:46Speaker 02

  Oh, that might be worse than the other one.

• 1:37:48Speaker 03

  It's right up there. If you back it up, you can see the elbow the dude lands right there. Boom.

• 1:37:54Speaker 02

  That was it?

• 1:37:54Speaker 03

  And then he looks at him, he's like, "Um, hey." And then the referee gets a look at it. And the referee gets a look at it. As soon as the referee sees it...

• 1:38:04Speaker 02

  He almost doesn't even want to hit him again. He's like, "Fuck."

• 1:38:06Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, it's crazy. The referee stops, he's like, "Hold on a second. Let me get a look at you."

• 1:38:10Speaker 02

  It's like, "You should stop, devil, my friend."

• 1:38:13Speaker 03

  Brings him to the doctor, says, "What's going on here?"

• 1:38:15Speaker 02

  Oh, my tomahawked him.

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• 1:39:47Speaker 02

  That was what was so impressive about Zanyakov. Chanko and his...

• 1:39:53Speaker 03

  Um, John Pork?

• 1:39:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:39:56Speaker 03

  Why did they call him that?

• 1:39:57Speaker 02

  I have no idea. Chanko, they call him Chanko because that's his town. That's the town we grew up in.

• 1:40:01Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:40:02Speaker 02

  But, uh, man, that dude's elbows were so slick.

• 1:40:05Speaker 03

  He's slick.

• 1:40:07Speaker 02

  Fun to watch.

• 1:40:08Speaker 03

  He's slick. His elbows in the clinch and in tight, you know, because he's a Muay Thai world champion. And, you know, that was his original discipline, which is interesting when you see these guys who start off as strikers, and then they get to Dagestan training room with Khabib and Islam and all those guys, and they learn the wrestling. But they start off with just this elite level of striking.

• 1:40:31Speaker 02

  Yeah. And that other guy wasn't bad.

• 1:40:34Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:40:34Speaker 02

  He gave back some resilience, but...

• 1:40:36Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, man, he dropped him. Remember?

• 1:40:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:40:38Speaker 03

  Oh, no, that was his first fight. Yeah, no, he didn't drop him this... That was his first fight in the contender series. He got dropped. He's a dangerous guy, man. Super dangerous. Chanko's fucking, he's for real, man. And so high level with his striking. His striking is just so elite, especially those elbows in tight, man. Elbows are nasty.

• 1:40:59Speaker 02

  I'm like Joe Sonnen, "I can't let you get close."

• 1:41:03Speaker 02

  "I can't let you get close." Because nah, you're not about to do that to me, bro. That's, I ain't trying to look like that.

• 1:41:10Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:41:11Speaker 02

  Like, you know, I want to continue my acting career and, you know, I got a whole lot of things I want to do, but it's gonna be a little tough if you get a couple of those.

• 1:41:19Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, elbows are... It's kind of funny that your gloves protect your hands and your knuckles, but not your elbows.

• 1:41:26Speaker 02

  Or knees.

• 1:41:27Speaker 03

  Or your knees, or his shins. It's kind of nuts that we have the padded thing is the thing that's the least likely to hurt you, if you really think about it.

• 1:41:36Speaker 02

  It's a crazy sport.

• 1:41:37Speaker 03

  It is the craziest.

• 1:41:39Speaker 02

  I love it and hate it sometimes.

• 1:41:41Speaker 03

  How much longer are you thinking you're gonna do it? You're 37 now.

• 1:41:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, I just turned 37.

• 1:41:45Speaker 03

  You must be thinking, "How much more am I gonna do this for?"

• 1:41:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, you know, I'm just taking it one fight at a time. I would like to end my career with the UFC.

• 1:41:57Speaker 02

  You know, hopefully...

• 1:41:58Speaker 03

  Is it an option that you might not?

• 1:42:00Speaker 02

  I don't know. You know, you never know what's gonna happen.

• 1:42:02Speaker 03

  Somebody comes up with a big number?

• 1:42:04Speaker 02

  No, not even that. Like, you just never know. Like, I know I sometimes piss off the brass from time to time.

• 1:42:10Speaker 03

  Do you?

• 1:42:11Speaker 02

  I guess. I've been told this.

• 1:42:12Speaker 03

  How?

• 1:42:13Speaker 02

  That sometimes I don't say the right things.

• 1:42:15Speaker 03

  What have you said that's the wrong thing?

• 1:42:16Speaker 02

  I'm a very honest person, so sometimes I just tell how I really feel about certain things. And people, these media outlets, they know what they're doing. They're asking me these questions because they know I'm gonna tell them the clickbait clips that they want.

• 1:42:28Speaker 03

  Who are you talking about specifically?

• 1:42:31Speaker 02

  Which one?

• 1:42:32Speaker 03

  The media outlets that fuck with you?

• 1:42:33Speaker 02

  All of them.

• 1:42:34Speaker 03

  They all try to get you to say...

• 1:42:35Speaker 02

  They all, all of them. They ask these questions, they'll go from Fighter Pay, and I've been in the headlines from Fighter Pay many times, many, many times.

• 1:42:44Speaker 03

  It's a legitimate argument.

• 1:42:45Speaker 02

  It is. But for some reason, when I, when I talk about it, I am, and maybe because I'm not the crazy guy like a Shawn Strickland, because Strickland has talked about it, and he's always been, he's known as the crazy guy. But when he talks about it, he makes it a very logical, understanding bit where I go, "How come he's not getting..." Maybe he is. Maybe, I just don't know, because I don't ask. I'm like, for some reason, when I say this, I feel like I'm a little bit more scrutinized.

• 1:43:12Speaker 03

  So what, does the UFC get upset at you? Do they say that they're upset at you? You don't have to talk about this if you don't want to. If you feel like this is a real issue, it's gonna get you in trouble.

• 1:43:22Speaker 02

  No, we have a great relationship.

• 1:43:24Speaker 03

  Because you're in line, you're, you are... Look, when Yevluev and Alexander, when they fight...

• 1:43:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:43:30Speaker 03

  This is very soon. Volkanovsky is defending his title against, finally, Yevluev. Like, who? That fucking guy's been waiting forever.

• 1:43:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:43:38Speaker 03

  Forever.

• 1:43:40Speaker 02

  So I don't really know who's the clear-cut guy for me to face, unless it's Lerone Murphy. I was told he was hurt.

• 1:43:45Speaker 03

  I think he's booked. I heard Lerone's got a fight.

• 1:43:48Speaker 02

  I heard he was hurt.

• 1:43:49Speaker 03

  Oh, really?

• 1:43:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:43:50Speaker 03

  Maybe he had a fight scheduled and it doesn't anymore.

• 1:43:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:43:54Speaker 03

  But I thought he has a fight coming up.

• 1:43:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, I was told he was hurt, so he's gonna be out for a couple of months. I don't know how long. I don't know how serious of an injury. But everybody else is booked and...

• 1:44:05Speaker 03

  Who did he just lose to? Lerone?

• 1:44:07Speaker 02

  Mosar.

• 1:44:08Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 1:44:09Speaker 02

  Which was crazy. I thought that fight should have been scored a draw.

• 1:44:12Speaker 03

  Did you?

• 1:44:12Speaker 02

  With the point deduction, it should have been scored a draw.

• 1:44:16Speaker 03

  What was the point deduction for?

• 1:44:17Speaker 02

  Uh, I think it was a low blow.

• 1:44:20Speaker 02

  But they gave him, they gave him four rounds. They gave Mosar four rounds.

• 1:44:24Speaker 03

  I'd have to watch it again. I didn't think it was a bad decision when I saw it. I'd have to watch it again.

• 1:44:28Speaker 02

  It was a competitive fight. Mosar didn't decide to wrestle him until round, the end of round three. And he just goes to show, he could have taken him down anytime he wanted. I'm just like, "Fuck it."

• 1:44:38Speaker 03

  Well, I think Mosar wanted, he wanted to show his striking, because he does have striking.

• 1:44:42Speaker 02

  But because of that, he made it, he made it more controversial to the overall fan base, because he decided to use his wrestling a lot later on in the fight.

• 1:44:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, but I think he needed to show that he's not boring in order to get a shot at the title, and now he's got a shot at the title.

• 1:44:58Speaker 02

  But to stay in the fight between rounds one and two was still like, there's nothing happening.

• 1:45:02Speaker 03

  I thought it was pretty good.

• 1:45:04Speaker 02

  It's a chess match.

• 1:45:05Speaker 03

  It was a chess match, but I think, I think it was, it was opening up Lerone to shots that I don't think he expected were coming at him, because I think he probably anticipated shot, takedowns, takedown temps. And instead, Mosar was getting off on him.

• 1:45:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:45:21Speaker 03

  He could strike.

• 1:45:22Speaker 02

  He can.

• 1:45:23Speaker 03

  But it's like you. It's like, why do it when you're better at grappling? If you can get a hold of him, why do it? Why, why roll the dice? And you know, when people say like, like a lot of people were upset when Murab beat Shugashon.

• 1:45:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:45:36Speaker 03

  And they were saying like, that was boring. That was just like, listen, this is the sport we're watching. If a guy like Murab can take you down and give you noogies for five rounds, and you can't do shit, and you lose your title, that's how it goes. You can't say that's boring and he should fight differently. Because Sean's got to come up with a solution. He's got to figure out how to, to deal with that.

• 1:46:00Speaker 02

  Styles makes fights. It's about the story.

• 1:46:02Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 1:46:03Speaker 02

  How'd you do against this guy? Ismail Makarchev versus Ian Garrett. Same thing. How does he do with this guy? Conor McGregor versus Khabib Nurmagomedov. Same thing about the storyline.

• 1:46:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:46:12Speaker 02

  Conor was protecting his whole UFC run. Now he's fighting a good, high level grappler, probably arguably, arguably the best grappler from the top position, clinch position.

• 1:46:22Speaker 03

  Ever.

• 1:46:22Speaker 02

  Um, ever. And it's the storyline. Can Conor McGregor overcome this? Can he land the perfect shot? It's what gets you to buy into it. But if you're gonna be pissed that the machine is gonna come in and your guy can't land the perfect punch, whose fault is that? It's like, but this is why you're watching. You're tuning in. You're not tuning in to watch a, a slaughtering of the lambs. You wanna watch a competitive fight. You just wanna watch one-sided fights. I don't know. Like, what do you want?

• 1:46:50Speaker 03

  Yeah. I mean, it was one-sided in the, in that he was able to take him down at will. But the also, also the problem was Sean fought that fight with a fucked up hip and really probably shouldn't have been fighting. Like, he had a tear in his hip.

• 1:47:03Speaker 02

  Yeah. But we all have stuff.

• 1:47:05Speaker 03

  Of course.

• 1:47:06Speaker 02

  I went to the fight with Sean, injured coming into the fight. He gets injured during the training camp and then he uses that, "I had a busted rib." I go, "Bro, we all have stuff, but you were in a better position to win this fight than I was coming into the fight." The same thing. When he hurt his hip, I don't know. But then they fought again and it was worse.

• 1:47:24Speaker 03

  It was worse. Murab, well, Murab was like, super confident coming in the second fight.

• 1:47:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:47:28Speaker 03

  That he was gonna be able to take him down. And then also, he had that championship level confidence.

• 1:47:32Speaker 02

  Oh, of course. You get that level up.

• 1:47:34Speaker 03

  Get that level up.

• 1:47:35Speaker 02

  Yeah. So it's like, it's not knocking Sean, it's not knocking the fans, but it's like, yo, this is the game that we're playing. No one's coming into this. I was talking to the guys at WESW. They're like, "It's fascinating how many of you guys are so beaten up." I'm going down a list of my injuries and everything I got going on. Like, I got an MRI for this. I got an MRI for this. This hurting, that's been bothering me for two years. This has been still ongoing. And I still go fight. And you would never think it, but that's just what it is. Like, we gotta do what we gotta do. We're never gonna be 100% going into it.

• 1:48:04Speaker 03

  100%.

• 1:48:04Speaker 02

  Like all sports.

• 1:48:05Speaker 03

  Guys have fought in world championships with blown out knees and won, you know? I mean, when Alex Pereira beat Yuri Prochaska, he had a fucked up knee in the first fight.

• 1:48:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:48:14Speaker 03

  And that's why when you see him get on, on top of him, when he's finishing him, he rolls over. Like rolls, instead of stepping up and standing over. He rolled off of him because his knee was blown out.

• 1:48:25Speaker 02

  Carlos Oberton.

• 1:48:26Speaker 03

  Yeah. That was crazy. But that was on Yuri.

• 1:48:29Speaker 02

  That was such a blunder.

• 1:48:32Speaker 03

  Such a blunder. Well, that's Yuri's craziness where it's not good. You know, some of Yuri's craziness is great, like when he fought Jamal.

• 1:48:40Speaker 02

  I felt for him so bad.

• 1:48:42Speaker 03

  I did too.

• 1:48:42Speaker 02

  Cause I was just like, it's not like saying I wanted him to win, but I felt for him. Like, damn, bro, you made the biggest mistake that you could have possibly made in a situation like that.

• 1:48:53Speaker 03

  It's literally the only thing he can hit you with.

• 1:48:55Speaker 02

  Fucking hell. And he lands it.

• 1:48:57Speaker 03

  It's the only thing he can hit you with. He can't, he doesn't have a, a right leg. His right leg is completely gone. But he could still throw that left hook, you know?

• 1:49:06Speaker 02

  That's his best punch.

• 1:49:08Speaker 03

  Lightning.

• 1:49:08Speaker 02

  I always tell people, the way he leaves that, that, he, uh, just leaves out that lead hand and he's measuring, stiff jab, and he's stepping back, and he takes that sidestep pivot, that L step, and then boom. It's just, he's clean with that.

• 1:49:22Speaker 03

  That division is on fire right now. How about Navahol Sterling?

• 1:49:25Speaker 02

  I was about to say, what, what happens with those two guys?

• 1:49:27Speaker 03

  Woo! I know, right?

• 1:49:28Speaker 02

  In the same camp, no?

• 1:49:29Speaker 03

  I know.

• 1:49:30Speaker 02

  He just beat Blachowicz.

• 1:49:31Speaker 03

  What happens? And he stopped him.

• 1:49:33Speaker 02

  Uh.

• 1:49:33Speaker 03

  That was crazy. I know. Watching that was extraordinary. I was like, this kid is something. He's something, man. That right hand was, whoo, the distance he covered to land that right hand too? And Yan's got a chin made out of iron. To take Yan out like that and drop him like that? Very, very, very impressive.

• 1:49:51Speaker 02

  He's 43 now.

• 1:49:53Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:49:54Speaker 02

  So it's also, I'm not taking anything away from him, but it's like...

• 1:49:57Speaker 03

  I think that's how old Glover was when he beat him.

• 1:50:00Speaker 02

  Really?

• 1:50:00Speaker 03

  I think Glover was like 42 when he won the title.

• 1:50:04Speaker 02

  Fuck.

• 1:50:04Speaker 03

  He was in his 40s.

• 1:50:06Speaker 02

  It's doable.

• 1:50:07Speaker 03

  It's doable.

• 1:50:08Speaker 02

  It ain't easy, but it's doable.

• 1:50:09Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's not normal. Nor, I mean, Glover was the boogeyman for six years before he could ever get to the UFC. Everybody had talked about Glover. Like, he was scary, but he was trapped in Brazil. He couldn't, visa issues. He couldn't get a visa to come to America and fight. And during those six years, he might've been the best light heavyweight on the planet.

• 1:50:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, I remember you talked, cause when he got signed, he got signed pretty, what is it, like late twenties, maybe thirties?

• 1:50:33Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm. I think he was in his thirties.

• 1:50:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, and I didn't know about him until he came over and made that debut and was against Fabi, Fabio Malinato, I think, maybe?

• 1:50:42Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:50:44Speaker 02

  But yes, so sometimes it just goes like that. Even like Pereira, he came over so late, started so late, I should say. And for him to do what he has done in such a short amount of time is like unreal.

• 1:50:54Speaker 03

  Unreal. Yeah. Pretty extraordinary. How impressed were you with Cyril Gahn though?

• 1:50:59Speaker 02

  Very.

• 1:51:01Speaker 03

  How many heavyweights can move like that, dude?

• 1:51:03Speaker 02

  Zero. And that's the whole thing with the Aspinall fight that I was saying. I was like, dude, this guy played basketball. It's a different type of athleticism. Quick twitch muscles, knows how to pivot, fake hit his jukes.

• 1:51:16Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's like plyometrics. Like a giant man plyometrics.

• 1:51:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:51:20Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:51:21Speaker 02

  And he's great at just holding the range outside of the eye pokes, but great at holding the range.

• 1:51:27Speaker 03

  Also, the dude never gets hit.

• 1:51:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:51:29Speaker 03

  When was the last time we saw, I mean, think about, Gahn is fighting in the heavyweight division. He's fighting guys like Tai Tuivasa. He's fighting, you know, these elite guys, these big heavyweights. And you'd never see him get cracked. Even against Nganu.

• 1:51:44Speaker 02

  I was about to say, even against Nganu, he did a great job.

• 1:51:45Speaker 03

  Didn't get cracked. I mean, that's kind of crazy that he's so good at avoiding getting hit. He is probably like the least hit clean heavyweight in the division.

• 1:51:55Speaker 02

  I think that fight with Jon Jones made people think less of him than what he actually is.

• 1:52:00Speaker 03

  It's just, that's how good Jon is. That's how good Jon Jones is.

• 1:52:04Speaker 02

  You can't do that. It's not the same.

• 1:52:06Speaker 03

  Especially if Jon gets a hold of your neck. He's gonna finish it. And the way he did it, you know, taking him down like that in the first round and guillotining him, I mean, phenomenal. But it's just, you have to deal with that speed and that movement standing up before you could ever get that to happen. And Jon figured it out. But I think Cyril has tightened up his takedown defense considerably since that fight.

• 1:52:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:52:28Speaker 03

  Because I think he realized, like, this is the big hole in his game. I know he brought in a lot of real big wrestlers. But when it comes to kickboxing, when it comes to Muay Thai, he's so hard to fuck with. And he, you, that style's different than everybody else's style.

• 1:52:42Speaker 02

  He's nasty.

• 1:52:43Speaker 03

  Light on his feet. He does a weird thing too from his side. Yeah. That, that front kick.

• 1:52:49Speaker 02

  I'd be watching.

• 1:52:50Speaker 03

  That twisting front kick from the front leg.

• 1:52:52Speaker 02

  It's the way he stands. He stands almost like this bladed, but it's like, not really bladed, but it is. And it allows him to have that dexterity and the flexibility where he could just look like he's throwing a front kick, but he's arcing it coming back.

• 1:53:05Speaker 03

  It's a twisting kick.

• 1:53:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:53:07Speaker 03

  There's a kick in Taekwondo called a twisting kick. And that's what it's like. It's from this position, you throw it out like that with the ball of the foot. So you're standing completely sideways and your left, your, your front leg comes up and it twists and goes like that. And that's what he's doing to the body. He's throwing a twisting front kick to the body.

• 1:53:26Speaker 02

  It's nasty.

• 1:53:27Speaker 03

  See if he can find it in here. Well, that's his round kick. But it's, it's off of his front leg. He throws it off the front leg. And he throws it completely sideways. And when you get to moving, he's gone.

• 1:53:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:53:39Speaker 03

  And then, and also, you might try to like, over emphasize those movements and he counters catching you coming in, cause he's faster than you. And that's what he did to Alex.

• 1:53:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:53:49Speaker 03

  He caught him with that, he caught him with a jab. I mean, that's what he really rocked him with. It was a right jab.

• 1:53:53Speaker 02

  Alex was big. That French. His freaking ass. I was like, yo, this is like distracting, bro. You got a fucking badunkadunk that's fucking blocking, blocking my vision of the screen right now, Alex. Like, move, turn the other way.

• 1:54:06Speaker 03

  It was the worst matchup for Alex to step into heavyweight. A guy who is bigger than him naturally, moves faster than him, and lighter on his feet, and is also an elite striker, a world championship caliber striker at a heavyweight level. Cause like, you know, Alex has been 185. He's a thinner guy. And he definitely put on mass to get up to 250, but that's not necessarily where he was naturally.

• 1:54:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:54:33Speaker 03

  Whereas Cyril Gahn has a natural frame to be at 248.

• 1:54:37Speaker 02

  And he's more stationary. The stationary guys never do so well against the guys who can move very well. It's just,

• 1:54:43Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:54:44Speaker 02

  Hard for you to chase him down, track him down, to learn the perfect punch. Had a hard time landing his calf kicks, which slows fights down for him and allows him to land that big Chama left hook.

• 1:54:53Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:54:53Speaker 02

  Um, I don't, even if they were to have a rematch, I don't know what he would have to work on to make that adjustment. That's just a hard fight for him.

• 1:55:03Speaker 03

  It's always gonna be a hard fight for him because Cyril Gahn's so agile. He's so hard to hit.

• 1:55:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:55:08Speaker 03

  He's never in front of you. Unless he caught him, like, maybe he threw those high kicks right in the beginning. He could've caught him or something like that and rocked him. And that would've been a different story. But he didn't. You know, and Cyril's like, he's great at blocking shit too. And if you get to him, his reflexes are excellent.

• 1:55:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:55:24Speaker 03

  And it's just that movement and speed is extraordinary. It would've been very interesting to see what happens if the Aspinall fight didn't end the way it ended.

• 1:55:31Speaker 02

  That was a heartbreaker.

• 1:55:32Speaker 03

  It was a heartbreaker.

• 1:55:33Speaker 02

  I got a lot of flack for that, cause people were saying I should've taken his side. Uh, because I got a foul too. And I'm like, I'm not not taking his side. What I'm saying is the only person that knows how bad he truly like was hurt is gonna be Aspinall.

• 1:55:47Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:55:48Speaker 02

  You know, so if he's saying it, I take it at face value. It is what it is. I can't go and say, "I'm in your eyeballs. I've seen guys get poked all the time and they continue." Yeah, we see it all the time. But not all eye pokes are created equal.

• 1:55:59Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:56:00Speaker 02

  And he got all them, three Stooges fingers up in there and his...

• 1:56:03Speaker 03

  Till the knuckle.

• 1:56:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was bad.

• 1:56:05Speaker 03

  Terrible. Terrible.

• 1:56:07Speaker 02

  I could only take what he's saying. I was like, but again... It's really up to him. Can he have said, if he was winning the fight, my pushback was devil's advocate. If he was winning the fight and having his way, would he have said, you know what, I'm gonna suck it up? And try to fight through this even though I still can't see. You never know. If he was, if he was having.

• 1:56:27Speaker 03

  I don't think he should, especially for a foul. I think it was, he was, he made a hundred percent the right call. Because look, he didn't lose that fight. It was a foul, although controversial. He doesn't get knocked out. He doesn't get head kicked. He doesn't get fly, flying knee in the face. If you can't see out of one of your eyes.

• 1:56:44Speaker 02

  It's hard.

• 1:56:44Speaker 03

  There's all sorts of shit that's coming from this direction that you're just not gonna see coming. And in wild exchanges, where your peripheral would catch it and you would duck under, you're not going to be able to see it.

• 1:56:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:56:55Speaker 03

  And you're gonna get rocked. And it's also, you're thinking now, oh my god, I can't see out of one of my eyes. Fuck that.

• 1:57:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:57:02Speaker 03

  He did the right thing. He did the right thing and I think, you know, he should've got more support. He should've got more support from everybody for, for that.

• 1:57:10Speaker 02

  From everybody.

• 1:57:10Speaker 03

  From everybody. Yeah. I mean, I tried to give him as much support as I could. I think he got fouled and they did the right thing. And I think you gotta take one point away every fucking time someone touches an eye. One point, every time, and they won't do it anymore.

• 1:57:23Speaker 02

  It looks like he's doing better now. Well, I'm hoping he gets to compete again this year.

• 1:57:27Speaker 03

  He's had two fucking eye surgeries, man. So that, remember, remember when you got knocked out by Malin Marais? How in the back of your head, you're like, oh shit, I can't get hit. How about him? Two eyeball surgeries. And now every time a, a finger comes towards his eye, he's thinking about his eyes, losing his eye. Look at Michael Bisping. He doesn't have an eye. He has one eye that's missing, right? So you gotta think that. Am I gonna not be, am I gonna look at my kids through one blurry eye for the rest of my life?

• 1:57:54Speaker 02

  That's fucked.

• 1:57:55Speaker 03

  That's fucked, you know? It's, so for the, being the position that he's in right now is kinda terrible.

• 1:58:03Speaker 02

  Um, I wanna talk about the Islam fights, uh, for this weekend, for 3:30. Can we take a piss break?

• 1:58:11Speaker 03

  Yeah, take a piss break. We'll be right back. And we're back. Jamie, pull up that card, the, um, the one this weekend? So we take a look at it. Yeah. Um, what do you think about the Ian Gary Islam fight? If you had to predict?

• 1:58:27Speaker 02

  If I had to predict.

• 1:58:28Speaker 03

  If you're like on the UFC desk and they put you on the spot.

• 1:58:30Speaker 02

  Okay. Islam Makarchev did a really good job neutralizing, uh, JDM's boxing. Didn't really give him an opportunity to do anything. He chopped his legs away with the, the calf kicks. Um, controlled him in the clinch. The takedowns were relatively easy. He didn't even really have to set it up with like hands. He kinda just shot and just took him down at will. Um, Ian Gary now, on the other hand, he's done a good job of showing takedown resilience. Uh, we saw that with Bilal Mohammed. Is Bilal Mohammed Makarchev? No.

• 1:59:02Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:59:02Speaker 02

  He's not.

• 1:59:03Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:59:03Speaker 02

  Um, but it, it definitely showed something. He did a good job with Shafkat as well, who was a bigger guy. Uh, was able to defend a bunch of times. Uh, I forgot if it was Shafkat who had his back, but he was able to defend.

• 1:59:14Speaker 03

  Shafkat's the guy who beat him. So Shafkat is the one loss that he has. And it was the grappling that Shafkat got him with. But he also blew out Shafkat's knee.

• 1:59:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:59:23Speaker 03

  Like, that's why Shafkat has had all these surgeries.

• 1:59:25Speaker 02

  That oblique kick.

• 1:59:26Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm. That, that kick is so nasty. That's the one thing that I wonder, like, should we not have that?

• 1:59:32Speaker 02

  You don't like, Eddie, I remember you don't really like that one.

• 1:59:34Speaker 03

  Uh, it's, you can't, I mean, you can defend it by not getting hit by it. But the problem is, if you get hit by it, like Khalil Roundtree and Modestus Bukakis, when he went, turned his knee sideways.

• 1:59:46Speaker 02

  He stomped that thing.

• 1:59:47Speaker 03

  Stomped it. And that's, that's a career changer. Like, it could be a career ender. Bukas, Bukakis came back, but.

• 1:59:54Speaker 02

  But this is two years now, right?

• 1:59:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:59:56Speaker 02

  For, for Shafkat, he's been out?

• 1:59:58Speaker 03

  Yup. He's had multiple surgeries. He, he had it done and then it blew out again, had to get it done again.

• 2:00:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, I, I just don't know, the, the range, the reach advantage. I think Ian does a great job of using his lateral footwork.

• 2:00:10Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:00:11Speaker 02

  Makarchev is not the fastest guy.

• 2:00:13Speaker 03

  No.

• 2:00:14Speaker 02

  But what he is, he's imposing. He knows how to cut you off. Um, that southpaw stance, I think causes some problems for a lot of people. He's only lost, what, one time to the, to the, um, Adriano Martins with the, the head kick knockout?

• 2:00:27Speaker 03

  A punch.

• 2:00:28Speaker 02

  Was it a punch?

• 2:00:29Speaker 03

  Yeah, he got punched.

• 2:00:30Speaker 02

  Oh, I thought it was a head kick. But, um, either way, I think Ian's gonna have to look to something like that, see if there's maybe some of those old tendencies that, that punch was able to land. That was also such a younger version of Islam. I just don't see him making those mistakes again.

• 2:00:43Speaker 03

  Yeah, that was a long time ago.

• 2:00:44Speaker 02

  How does Ian win? He's gonna have to point fight and sit on the outside and hope not to get tired going backwards the whole time.

• 2:00:49Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:00:50Speaker 02

  And he got tired doing that against Carlos Prother. So this is a tough one for, for Gary. Can he get the upset? Of course, it's fighting. We just saw this with Gagey and, uh, Toporia. Um, but I would say Islam has the one shortcut way to win. Push him against the cage, take him down. And even if he presses him against the cage, I'm curious to know if, to curious to see if Gary can do damage in the clinch. Whenever I'm in the clinch with somebody, I always tell the guys, look for your knuckles and hit the eyeball. Hit the nose, hit the soft spots that's gonna make this guy uncomfortable in the clinch, not looking for his foot sweeps, where he's comfortable just resting on you. Um, looking to set up his takedown, his next transition. Uh, and I learned this from Brian Caraway, my first pro loss in the UFC.

• 2:01:35Speaker 02

  After being 5-0, we clinched. I take him down, but in the clinch, while I'm going for the single leg, I have his leg up in the air, he's leaning over my back. And he's taking his knuckles and he's just hitting me in the eye. Swallowed my whole eye. I was like, what the fuck is he hitting me with? And I go back and I wash the tape and I get to see, and I learned that. So I always like showed, like, share these little tricks and stuff with guys when I'm teaching them. So if Gary can land some good damage in those positions, kinda deter Islam a little bit, or make him a little bit more sloppy on his finishes. It could cause some chaotic scrambles where he could potentially get to a good position. And maybe we see Islam on his back again, kinda like what happened with Volk. And when he was there with Volk, it did not look good.

• 2:02:14Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:02:15Speaker 02

  And of course, it's round five, so it gotta be.

• 2:02:17Speaker 03

  It was also a fight where the time was all fucked up and he didn't have as much time to rehydrate.

• 2:02:22Speaker 02

  Oh yeah, they did say, they did say something like that.

• 2:02:24Speaker 03

  It was not, he didn't, he was compromised in that fight because of that, because he didn't have as much time to rehydrate, because they were fighting in Australia. And they were trying to fight on US time.

• 2:02:34Speaker 02

  Um, this one is the one that I'm really excited about too. Cause Gillian is so fucking good on the ground.

• 2:02:43Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:02:43Speaker 02

  Top position, even off of her back. Mackenzie Dern is great off of her back. The top position too. Um, she's more decorated in terms of like the jiu-jitsu space. On the feet, she's more reckless. Like, she's throwing caution to the wind because she doesn't care. She's not afraid to get her pretty face messed up. She's gonna go in there and go after you. She's just attacking.

• 2:03:05Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:03:06Speaker 02

  Gillian, on the other hand, not as physical on the feet, um, not a big puncher, not a big kicker. She sets everything up, looking for the takedown or the clinch to, to take you down, get to the back. But when she gets there and she gets you down, she, her ground and pound, it's nasty.

• 2:03:21Speaker 03

  The question is, is she gonna be able to do it to a world champion like Mackenzie Dern?

• 2:03:25Speaker 02

  To a good position. Like, some of those other girls, she gets the back mount or full mount and she's able to land these solid elbows, beat them up in that position.

• 2:03:33Speaker 03

  Mackenzie's a jiu-jitsu world champion.

• 2:03:35Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 2:03:36Speaker 03

  It's a different, different world.

• 2:03:37Speaker 02

  That's the hard part.

• 2:03:38Speaker 03

  It's gonna be interesting. It's gonna be interesting. Um, go the other, rest of the card, go back to it? Cause, uh, I'm interested to see how, uh, Abdul Malik recovers from his last fight.

• 2:03:50Speaker 02

  Bro, that guy was so big.

• 2:03:51Speaker 03

  Bulgari. Bulgari's a monster, dude. There's, that's a guy in the 185 pound division that's a real fucking problem.

• 2:03:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:03:59Speaker 03

  He's a world-class striker. I mean, he has a victory over Pereira in glory.

• 2:04:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, that is, that's the, yeah, that's the guy.

• 2:04:06Speaker 03

  Yeah, one victory. And then he got starched in the rematch.

• 2:04:09Speaker 02

  But the thing with, with, um, Malik is, he was trying to go for the takedowns, but the setups were like, in my opinion, from a rest standpoint. So I may be a little bit unfair with this criticism, but I just didn't think they're, they were that good. And, um.

• 2:04:23Speaker 03

  He was also dealing with striking that was like way above and beyond him.

• 2:04:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:04:27Speaker 03

  And that, that was part of the problem is that in the transitions, like trying to get close to him, you're dealing with a guy who's gigantic. He's one of the tallest guys in the division. He's so fucking big for 185, so long and tall. And on top of it, world-class striker. And he's coming into his own as an MMA guy. And part of the reason is because he's down there in Connecticut with, with, uh, Glover and with Alex. And he's doing camps with those guys. So like, his grappling's now on point, much more confident on the feet, much more stable. But before that, I thought Mansur was a real potential world champion.

• 2:05:02Speaker 02

  Yes. But it's just so crazy. You can see somebody in one fight and then see him in the next one, you're just like, alright.

• 2:05:08Speaker 03

  It was a bad loss too. It was a bad one.

• 2:05:10Speaker 02

  It wasn't good.

• 2:05:10Speaker 03

  It was a lot of like, see if you can find that fight.

• 2:05:13Speaker 02

  Leg kicks, the jabs.

• 2:05:15Speaker 03

  He got beat up. So it was, the thing was, the amount of damage that he took, because he's so tough. The amount of damage he took before they stopped the fight was pretty extraordinary. There was a lot of damage.

• 2:05:25Speaker 02

  I was hoping he could get the fight down at least once.

• 2:05:28Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:05:28Speaker 02

  But yeah, he couldn't. It was, uh, it was a tough. There's a lot of guys at 185 that are a fucking problem, man. A lot of guys at 85 that are a real problem.

• 2:05:40Speaker 03

  But we need that in those divisions, because those divisions have been so thin for so long. Like, there's a couple of guys, right? But now you're starting to see more, like even like the lower weight classes. A guy who's unranked like an Ethan Ewen.

• 2:05:51Speaker 02

  Right, right.

• 2:05:52Speaker 03

  And you're like, I'm excited about this division because I want to see how far he could go. You got a guy like Mansour and I can't say the other guy's name. Abdul? No, that's Mansour.

• 2:06:01Speaker 02

  Bulgari?

• 2:06:01Speaker 03

  Bulgari.

• 2:06:02Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm. You got these two guys coming up.

• 2:06:03Speaker 03

  You got Attaba Gautier. How about that motherfucker?

• 2:06:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:06:06Speaker 03

  He puts guys into orbit.

• 2:06:08Speaker 02

  He fought our guy, uh, Aziz Diaz, the last one.

• 2:06:10Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:06:11Speaker 02

  That was a tough one.

• 2:06:12Speaker 03

  It was a tough one. Yeah, this is the fight. I mean,

• 2:06:17Speaker 03

  Mansour is so tough that he was able to keep this fight going where a lot of guys would have got taken out early.

• 2:06:23Speaker 02

  But look at that.

• 2:06:24Speaker 03

  Yeah, the elbows and the clinch, everything. He's just getting destroyed.

• 2:06:27Speaker 02

  You see how he's even trapping the wrists and then stepping in with the punches or stepping in with the elbows?

• 2:06:31Speaker 03

  Clean right hand, elbow. It's just Mansour is so tough.

• 2:06:35Speaker 02

  Man.

• 2:06:35Speaker 03

  He's so tough, he's just absorbing so much punishment. And finally, they stop it, but before the stoppage.

• 2:06:42Speaker 02

  He waited all for him. The referee's like, get out of here.

• 2:06:45Speaker 03

  Before the stoppage, I think that was the end of a round. I don't even know if that was.

• 2:06:49Speaker 02

  That was the end of the round, yeah.

• 2:06:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, that wasn't the actual stoppage.

• 2:06:53Speaker 03

  So if you keep going in the fight, it gets even worse. I mean, the thing about stand-up is when you're dealing with a guy who's a world championship kickboxer and you can't take him down and he's got really good takedown defense and he's got a reach advantage. It's like everything possible that's terrible about what could happen is going on.

• 2:07:14Speaker 02

  Oh, that split right hand. Oh, my goodness. Oh, my gosh. I'm surprised he didn't just faceplant after that.

• 2:07:22Speaker 03

  Well, he's so tough, man. But the problem in being so. The durability and but the toughness is, your problem is you get so many holes punched in your card in one fight.

• 2:07:32Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:07:33Speaker 03

  In one fight. Whereas if he got hit with one shot, one big shot is bad, he'd get taken out. But it's not as bad as a prolonged beating over three rounds.

• 2:07:42Speaker 02

  I, I always say, I call them dings.

• 2:07:44Speaker 03

  There it is, right there.

• 2:07:45Speaker 02

  There's only so many dings you can have in your career before it's just like.

• 2:07:49Speaker 03

  This is the final, his body just couldn't. As tough as he is, and he's so tough. But the problem is, that's the kind of fight where in boxing, you wouldn't have, if you were a manager and he was your guy, you would not have had him fight him at this stage of his career.

• 2:08:07Speaker 02

  No, not at all.

• 2:08:07Speaker 03

  You'd be like, this is not a fight for you right now. We, we've got to really get our striking better. We've got to, there's, there's growth to be, be had before you fight that guy.

• 2:08:16Speaker 02

  But you gotta know that. And I think sometimes fighters, we could be so egotistical.

• 2:08:23Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:08:24Speaker 02

  That where I could beat anybody. But sometimes it's nice to be like, you know what? I could beat him, but just not right now. Let me beat somebody else. We'll get there when we get there.

• 2:08:36Speaker 03

  But the UFC does not give you that opportunity. The UFC is like, here's the wolves.

• 2:08:40Speaker 02

  You can say no, though.

• 2:08:42Speaker 03

  You can, but you might get shelved for a long fucking time if you say no. And a lot of guys know that. And they also know, some guys have taken advantage of those opportunities, those short notice oppo. Jon Jones.

• 2:08:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:08:54Speaker 03

  Jon Jones got, I mean, what was the fight with Shogun? It was very short notice.

• 2:08:59Speaker 02

  After he'd just beaten, oh, man.

• 2:09:03Speaker 03

  Who did he beat? He beat everybody, but who did he beat?

• 2:09:05Speaker 02

  Rashad Evans had just gotten hurt and then he stepped in and take, and took that one.

• 2:09:09Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:09:09Speaker 02

  For the title.

• 2:09:09Speaker 03

  Exactly. And that's when him and Rashad were training partners.

• 2:09:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:09:13Speaker 03

  And that's, that's, shows the wildness of Jon. He's fighting Shogun, who's a legend, who's the light heavyweight champion, opens with a flying knee.

• 2:09:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:09:24Speaker 03

  At 22. And beats him down, beats him down and, and wins the title.

• 2:09:30Speaker 02

  He has to be studied.

• 2:09:33Speaker 03

  Listen, man, he should be coaching for sure. Definitely should be, I mean, he is now with, uh, Gable.

• 2:09:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:09:39Speaker 03

  Gable Stevenson is, uh, he's a real fucking problem.

• 2:09:42Speaker 02

  But the other thing is this.

• 2:09:43Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:09:44Speaker 02

  You can show all the technique in the world and I, I always say it comes back down to what do you do when you're in there under those bright lights? And that's the most important thing. And if you can't dial it in, it's a scary place to be. Because I can't make you confident. You could be as confident as you want when you're talking to me, but only you truly know what's, like, what's really going on between, between those ears, you know? So.

• 2:10:06Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:10:07Speaker 02

  That's where it gets like tricky.

• 2:10:09Speaker 03

  It does. It gets very tricky. It gets very tricky and it's complicated. And, I mean, there's only so much a, a, a mental coach can teach you on how to handle those situations. They can give you some tools, but either, I mean, I think it's something that's born out of your life.

• 2:10:25Speaker 02

  You like mental coaches?

• 2:10:26Speaker 03

  Excuse me?

• 2:10:26Speaker 02

  You like mental coaches?

• 2:10:28Speaker 03

  Um,

• 2:10:30Speaker 03

  I think there's nothing wrong with tightening up every single aspect of your game. However, I don't think they could fix a leaky boat.

• 2:10:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:10:40Speaker 03

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• 2:12:39Speaker 03

  That's promo code J R E or go to lifelock.com/J R E for 30% off. Terms apply. You said it like you don't like mental coaches.

• 2:12:52Speaker 02

  I think it's a chicken armor. I think it's a chicken armor. If I know you have a mental coach, I'm coming for that ass.

• 2:12:59Speaker 03

  Okay, but what if you found out that Alexandre Pantoja had a mental coach? As savage as that dude is.

• 2:13:08Speaker 02

  Good for him.

• 2:13:08Speaker 03

  I might be like, okay.

• 2:13:09Speaker 02

  But he's not fighting me.

• 2:13:10Speaker 03

  Right, but you know what I'm saying?

• 2:13:12Speaker 02

  That's what I'm saying.

• 2:13:13Speaker 03

  But you know what I'm saying? Like, imagine if you, you found out Pure Yan had a mental coach.

• 2:13:18Speaker 02

  That's cool.

• 2:13:19Speaker 03

  But you know what I'm saying? Like, if a guy is elite already and already a dog and you give him just some different things to concentrate on, I don't think there's anything wrong with it. What I think is, if you need it, it shows me that there's an issue. And sometimes that issue can never be fixed. There's some guys that when the going gets tough, they find a way out.

• 2:13:41Speaker 02

  That's, that's where I'm getting at. I agree with you. If you need it, there's nothing wrong with it. But I also know that there's a place in there that if I could get the right key to unlock that door, it's gonna be bad.

• 2:13:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:13:56Speaker 02

  It's gonna be bad.

• 2:13:58Speaker 03

  You're already joking people. Yeah, I think you're right. I think you're right and I don't know. I mean, um, Sean Brady had a mental coach. And, uh, you know, there's moments where Sean Brady is a motherfucker.

• 2:14:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:14:11Speaker 03

  Right? Like the Joaquin Buckley fight, like holy shit, dude.

• 2:14:14Speaker 02

  That Leon Edwards.

• 2:14:16Speaker 03

  Oh, my God. Extraordinary. But then Morales. But the problem is Morales is a fucking light heavyweight.

• 2:14:22Speaker 02

  He's huge.

• 2:14:24Speaker 03

  Gigantic. You want to talk about the one guy that is like the poster boy for cutting weight? It's Morales. He's so big for 170. It's, it doesn't even make sense.

• 2:14:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:14:36Speaker 03

  You see him in the octagon, you're like, that's a light heavyweight. Or at the very least, a very big middleweight.

• 2:14:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, for sure. He's a big dude.

• 2:14:43Speaker 03

  And he's welterweight.

• 2:14:44Speaker 02

  And seeing him and Brady in there, I was like, this is not the same weight class.

• 2:14:48Speaker 03

  It seemed like it wasn't.

• 2:14:49Speaker 02

  He got the, he got a big back, but I'm looking at him like.

• 2:14:52Speaker 03

  Look what Brady did to a former world champion in Leon Edwards, who's a good grappler. I mean, Leon took down Kamara Usman. Leon can grapple. He's a good grappler, but there's levels. And Sean Brady's on another level when it comes to that. And what he did to Buckley was just bananas. It looked like he was in a training room, you know? Right? When he was on top of him, it was like he was like working a heavy bag drill. It was crazy.

• 2:15:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:15:15Speaker 03

  He got no fear whatsoever of getting shook off. It's like, there is not a chance in hell you're getting me off of you, so I'm just gonna work my cardio and beat your ass.

• 2:15:25Speaker 02

  Which is fascinating because he's so strong and explosive. You would think he'd be able to get up.

• 2:15:30Speaker 03

  223.

• 2:15:32Speaker 02

  Bro.

• 2:15:33Speaker 00

  He's now weighing in for, as the backup for this fight. So he's cutting weight.

• 2:15:39Speaker 02

  This is ridiculous, bro.

• 2:15:41Speaker 03

  223 is heavyweight. He's a heavyweight.

• 2:15:43Speaker 00

  He's down to 193 now.

• 2:15:48Speaker 03

  Yeah, but that's probably after training.

• 2:15:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:15:51Speaker 03

  You know?

• 2:15:51Speaker 02

  It's not the morning.

• 2:15:52Speaker 03

  He's really over 200, I guarantee you.

• 2:15:55Speaker 02

  No, I seen him in person. He's a big motherfucker.

• 2:15:57Speaker 03

  He's enormous.

• 2:15:57Speaker 02

  How are you making 170?

• 2:15:58Speaker 03

  And his power is fucking extraordinary. He has to cut 20 or more pounds this week. Yeah, but listen, he can do it. He's young. He's done it before. He started out, he's a wrestler. That's his original discipline.

• 2:16:10Speaker 02

  Really?

• 2:16:11Speaker 03

  Yeah, he knows how to cut weight.

• 2:16:13Speaker 02

  I didn't know that.

• 2:16:13Speaker 03

  Wrestling and judo, I believe. See, go, find his Wikipedia. He's, he can grapple, man. That's the thing. You don't see it from him, which is crazy.

• 2:16:22Speaker 02

  I see his videos.

• 2:16:24Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:16:24Speaker 02

  Not, not the one where he's dressed up as a girl.

• 2:16:26Speaker 03

  I think that's a tradition down there.

• 2:16:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, I know, I know.

• 2:16:30Speaker 03

  They, they get silly. I know.

• 2:16:32Speaker 02

  This guy's blowing kisses.

• 2:16:33Speaker 03

  It's a little sus.

• 2:16:34Speaker 02

  Like, what?

• 2:16:35Speaker 03

  I think they do, it's a traditional thing they do down there. I don't understand it, but I don't have to.

• 2:16:40Speaker 02

  I've never seen Cheetos do it.

• 2:16:41Speaker 00

  He's been doing judo since he was five years old.

• 2:16:43Speaker 03

  Yeah, see there.

• 2:16:44Speaker 02

  I won't see him in Islam.

• 2:16:46Speaker 03

  His mother was what?

• 2:16:47Speaker 00

  Third Dan Judo black belt.

• 2:16:49Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:16:50Speaker 00

  Retired when she was 42.

• 2:16:51Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 2:16:52Speaker 00

  He switched to wrestling when he was 10.

• 2:16:54Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:16:55Speaker 02

  Watch out for a little mama.

• 2:16:56Speaker 03

  So he's got a background in grappling. That's where he started out. But the thing is, the dude's got lightning in his hands.

• 2:17:03Speaker 02

  I want to see him in Islam.

• 2:17:04Speaker 03

  I want to see him in Carlos Protest. That's what I want to see. Fuck, yes.

• 2:17:10Speaker 02

  I just, I want to see it.

• 2:17:11Speaker 03

  Protest is the truth.

• 2:17:13Speaker 02

  I just don't want.

• 2:17:13Speaker 03

  That dude scares the fuck out of me.

• 2:17:15Speaker 02

  I don't want nobody to knock each other off yet.

• 2:17:17Speaker 03

  I understand what you're saying.

• 2:17:18Speaker 02

  That's, that's where it gets hard, is like, you kill the storyline.

• 2:17:20Speaker 03

  That's 100% a great world championship fight.

• 2:17:23Speaker 02

  You know?

• 2:17:24Speaker 03

  And we'll see what happens. Listen, if Islam may retire.

• 2:17:30Speaker 02

  I, I can feel him, I can feel him.

• 2:17:32Speaker 03

  He may retire. He's done a lot. He's, he's competed in two different weight classes and won world championships in two different weight classes. If he beats Ian, if he submits Ian and says, I've had enough, I'm gonna do what Khabib did, and I'm gonna coach now. I could see that. And then I could see Morales.

• 2:17:50Speaker 02

  Protest.

• 2:17:50Speaker 03

  And Protest for the fucking undisputed title.

• 2:17:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's the way to go.

• 2:17:55Speaker 03

  Protest scares the fuck out of me, dude.

• 2:17:57Speaker 02

  Cause I, I.

• 2:17:57Speaker 03

  He's, to me, he's the scariest. Because he does weird shit in there where, like, he, he sets you up with stuff. Like, he does that setup where he fakes a punch and dives in with that left knee to the body.

• 2:18:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, nasty.

• 2:18:11Speaker 03

  And his punching power is fucking crazy, man.

• 2:18:14Speaker 02

  Oh, why his hands are down here.

• 2:18:16Speaker 03

  Hands down there and having fun. Having fun, relaxing. Like, when JDM took him down, he's like, why, why are we wrestling, my friend? People don't want to see wrestling? Come on, let me up.

• 2:18:29Speaker 02

  But JDM's the boxer, so I thought it was gonna be more competitive.

• 2:18:32Speaker 03

  JDM's pretty complete. You know, JDM supposedly, in the Islam fight, had a really bad back. It was pretty fucked up. And really struggled with wrestling, getting ready for that fight. That's the word.

• 2:18:46Speaker 03

  And, you know, even if he didn't, there's levels. And Islam's level is the highest level. He's the, the highest level. When it comes to grappling, there's no one higher in that division than Islam. His fucking, his squeeze is extraordinary.

• 2:18:59Speaker 02

  That's why I want to train with those guys.

• 2:19:01Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:19:01Speaker 02

  Just give me a week. One, two weeks and forget.

• 2:19:03Speaker 03

  Send them to Dagestan, two, two years, forget.

• 2:19:07Speaker 02

  I'll be good with that.

• 2:19:08Speaker 03

  Would you want to go down there and train with those guys?

• 2:19:10Speaker 02

  I, I would go down for a bit.

• 2:19:11Speaker 03

  Why don't you go down?

• 2:19:13Speaker 02

  I got this, I got the cigars.

• 2:19:15Speaker 03

  I'll listen.

• 2:19:15Speaker 02

  I got my training partners.

• 2:19:17Speaker 03

  I understand, but time is the essence. There's not much time left. If you want to find out, it has to be now.

• 2:19:22Speaker 02

  I know.

• 2:19:22Speaker 03

  You can't go down there when you're 40.

• 2:19:24Speaker 02

  Or maybe I'm like Mighty Mouse. When I'm retired, I go train everywhere.

• 2:19:27Speaker 03

  Or George. George St. Pierre does that. He's down here all the time, training with Gordon Ryan.

• 2:19:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, that'd be fun, you know, but.

• 2:19:33Speaker 03

  George is like a real martial artist. You know what I mean? Like, never got out of shape.

• 2:19:38Speaker 02

  He's a man.

• 2:19:39Speaker 03

  He's the man. And he's so cool. He was, he, you know, he plays chess at a really high level.

• 2:19:44Speaker 02

  I play chess.

• 2:19:45Speaker 03

  You play chess too?

• 2:19:46Speaker 02

  I play chess.

• 2:19:47Speaker 03

  Are you good?

• 2:19:47Speaker 02

  I'm about a 1400, I'm about a 1350 to 1420 elo.

• 2:19:52Speaker 03

  Is that good?

• 2:19:53Speaker 02

  It's supposed to be good. Decent for like, I'm not like a grandmaster, which is like 2500 or some shit. Or 3000.

• 2:19:59Speaker 03

  How often do you play?

• 2:20:00Speaker 02

  Every day.

• 2:20:01Speaker 03

  Really?

• 2:20:01Speaker 02

  Every day. But I play five-minute games. Cause it's similar to like a fight. Like, you gotta know and make your strategies, make your attacks. Some guys, they play 10-minute games. I'm like, bro, I'm too busy to play 10-minute games. I gotta.

• 2:20:12Speaker 03

  Where did you learn?

• 2:20:13Speaker 02

  I started playing after COVID, during COVID, when Queen's Gambit came out.

• 2:20:17Speaker 03

  Ah.

• 2:20:19Speaker 02

  I used to think chess was like, oh, that's a gay, that's a gay thing. This is like, so stupid. Play checkers like a man.

• 2:20:24Speaker 03

  What? Play checkers like a man is the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

• 2:20:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, then I realized really quick. I was like, oh, this is, this is some high-level shit. This is not for stupid people. This is for intellects. Like, you have to understand what you're actually doing, strategizing, setting people up. Kind of like a fight.

• 2:20:40Speaker 03

  It's a fascinating game. Um, George was playing James McCann. James McCann's a hilarious comedian from Australia. And Georgia, and James is very smart and a really good chess player. And George and him were going to war in the green room of the mothership. And we were all like, oh shit. Yeah, yeah, they had a board. Yeah.

• 2:20:59Speaker 02

  Aw, man.

• 2:20:59Speaker 03

  Guys played at the mothership all the time. Brian Simpson and Tony Hinchcliffe play all the time.

• 2:21:04Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 2:21:04Speaker 03

  Yeah, they, they get serious about chess.

• 2:21:06Speaker 02

  Challenge accepted.

• 2:21:07Speaker 03

  Yeah, man, I don't play, but I'm scared. I'm scared to play.

• 2:21:11Speaker 02

  Yeah?

• 2:21:11Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:21:12Speaker 02

  It's, it's addicting.

• 2:21:13Speaker 03

  That's the problem.

• 2:21:14Speaker 02

  It's, cause then you want to, you want to know the openings, you want to know the strategies, you want to know, okay, if I do this sacrifice and there's so many little things.

• 2:21:21Speaker 03

  Now, did you learn by reading books? Did you learn by watching videos? How'd you learn?

• 2:21:25Speaker 02

  Um, I downloaded the app during COVID and that was it. I was hooked.

• 2:21:31Speaker 03

  And so how did you learn how to move?

• 2:21:34Speaker 02

  Um, the game. So the game, you could start like beginner level. It tells you what pieces like does what. Like, the pawn can only go forward, it can only capture sideways. The knight can only do like this L-shaped thing. Forward, backwards.

• 2:21:47Speaker 03

  So you just learned from the app?

• 2:21:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:21:49Speaker 03

  Oh, wow.

• 2:21:50Speaker 02

  And then I started watching videos. Then I was watching hour-long videos and tutorials. I was like, alright, the hooks are in.

• 2:21:56Speaker 03

  Bro, we had Magnus Carlsen on the podcast and Tony sat in with it, cause you know, Tony plays. And it was like watching a guy and talking, watching his mind move and just talking to him about how he does it and how he strategizes. And, you know, he's the greatest of all time.

• 2:22:10Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:22:10Speaker 03

  So having him like explain the game to you, you just go, whoa. There's just so many, there's so many moves. It's so complex. There's so much going on. There's so many

• 2:22:23Speaker 02

  Theories.

• 2:22:24Speaker 03

  Steps in advance you're playing.

• 2:22:27Speaker 02

  It's cool.

• 2:22:27Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:22:28Speaker 02

  It's cool.

• 2:22:29Speaker 03

  And it's something you can play forever, too.

• 2:22:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:22:31Speaker 03

  Regardless of your physical ability. You know, you don't have to ever worry about getting out of shape to play chess.

• 2:22:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:22:40Speaker 02

  I want to, I, I have some of my friends that did some time. And that's where they learned. That's where they learned how to play. And we, we'd play from time to time. Uh, but then I come to find out, like, they were really good at the time because I wasn't really good. I thought I was good, but I really wasn't. And then really quickly I realized, oh, these guys are really

• 2:23:00Speaker 03

  They're not that good.

• 2:23:01Speaker 02

  They're like, low level. You know, so it's, it's, it's very intellectual game. That's why I really, really enjoy it.

• 2:23:07Speaker 03

  When I was playing pool in New York, there was this kid who was a, a, a young player. Who, like, when he was really young, he was playing in tournaments all over the place. He was like really good. And there was a dude who got out of prison and learned how to play in his head in prison, cause they didn't have a board. And so this kid and this old dude were sitting there playing chess in their head. And they would call out the moves. And they had the, the, the whole board mapped. I was fascinated. I was like, this is crazy.

• 2:23:34Speaker 02

  That's really hard to do.

• 2:23:35Speaker 03

  Yeah, and you also have to agree where the pieces are.

• 2:23:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:23:39Speaker 03

  You know what I mean?

• 2:23:40Speaker 02

  I'm not that good.

• 2:23:41Speaker 03

  You gotta rely on, and, you know, this one guy had played so many times in prison in his head that he could keep track of the entire board. And this kid was a wizard at it. And watching these two guys call out moves and just sit, sitting there staring at each other. Like, trying to figure out who's winning. I'm like, you guys are playing an invisible board. This is crazy.

• 2:24:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's, that's next level.

• 2:24:01Speaker 03

  That was my first introduction to chess. I was like, this is nuts, man.

• 2:24:05Speaker 02

  Uh, you want to try the silver?

• 2:24:07Speaker 03

  Sure, I'll try it.

• 2:24:09Speaker 00

  I still have some of this left, though.

• 2:24:11Speaker 02

  It's water now.

• 2:24:11Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:24:12Speaker 00

  I know it is.

• 2:24:13Speaker 02

  Agua.

• 2:24:17Speaker 02

  It's still chilled too, so.

• 2:24:20Speaker 02

  I like this one chilled. You ever do like a green tea shot?

• 2:24:26Speaker 03

  What's a green tea shot?

• 2:24:27Speaker 02

  It's like with bourbon or whiskey.

• 2:24:29Speaker 03

  Like green tea?

• 2:24:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, they call it green tea. You see a lot of the girls, they drink it at the bars and stuff. So we did this with like a, we call it silver tea. It's a silver rum.

• 2:24:39Speaker 03

  What is rum made with?

• 2:24:41Speaker 02

  Sugarcane, sugarcane or molasses. Uh, I think the other one's agricole. But.

• 2:24:49Speaker 03

  No matter where people are in the world, they find a way to get fucked up.

• 2:24:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, from the Pirates of the Caribbean.

• 2:24:55Speaker 03

  Is that what's rum?

• 2:24:55Speaker 02

  No, no. But that's what the Pirates would drink.

• 2:24:58Speaker 03

  Woo. Why did, uh, why are pirates, why were they so into rum?

• 2:25:03Speaker 02

  Honestly, I couldn't tell you.

• 2:25:04Speaker 03

  You know what I mean?

• 2:25:05Speaker 02

  I, I, I, I don't know.

• 2:25:08Speaker 03

  That's like rum is like associated, they probably learned from the Caribbean, right? And that's where it originated, right?

• 2:25:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, you get it from, uh, sugarcane plants and the whole distillation process. This is like pot still, pot still and column still for both of these. It's just, it's just a Jamaican blend. Like some of them are mostly, uh.

• 2:25:27Speaker 03

  Pirates did drink rum, but the stereotype is exaggerated, so it's perplexing. During much of the 1600s, Caribbean pirates often drank wine and brandy more commonly. Rum became far more available and popular in the early 1700s as Caribbean sugar production expanded. Oh, that makes sense.

• 2:25:45Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 2:25:46Speaker 03

  Yo ho ho in a bottle of rum.

• 2:25:49Speaker 02

  You know what I, I never understood is like, we, we know the big players in the rum market like Bacardi, Captain Morgan's, Malibu. But when we go on vacation, we go to the Caribbean, we drink all the different rums from, from the islands. And I always tell people like, you have such a great time drinking rum. Like, why don't we bring that here to that, to our culture and, and make it more of a inclusive thing versus just only when I go on vacation. That's the only time it's really associated. And I go, I want to change that, that narrative and let people, rum is for year round. You could have sipping rum, you could have it for Vegas pool parties. You can have it with a cigar. Like there's so many different ways you can enjoy it. It's, it's not just for vacation time.

• 2:26:32Speaker 02

  It's, for me, I, I want this to be something that makes you feel like you're back on the island. And we wanted to make sure this was a hundred percent Jamaican rum. Didn't want to piss off my people in Jamaica, cause that's the one thing when we were doing this. So I went through the whole process, like the branding, the labeling, my money invested in it. So it's like actually my company. But with that said, one of the things I spoke to some of the guys at the, at the, um, distilleries, the one we went to mainly was Worthy Park. And they were saying, the main thing you don't want to do is call something Jamaican rum if it's not a hundred percent Jamaican. And I was like, I had a feeling, but I wanted to make sure. So we didn't toe that line and piss anybody off. So it's been a, this has been a fun project and we've been having a good time just getting some bigger distribute,

• 2:27:17Speaker 02

  uh, distributors and stuff. We should get one in California soon. My guy Kevin Felcler from King's Seafood, he has a bunch of restaurants down in Cali and Vegas. He brought us in, but he's a Long Island guy. He heard me talking about it on, um, the aerial show and reached out and I thought it was like a prank email. I was like, let me just see where it goes. And it turns into something, I was like, oh, this is actually a legit guy. Actually had a legit business and everything and it's been cool. So this has been fun, it's my passion project.

• 2:27:44Speaker 03

  What's a smart thing to do to prepare for your retirement too? To have a real legitimate business going, like as you're still fighting.

• 2:27:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's, it's not just my name on a label, like trying to do a quick money grab or anything like that, so.

• 2:27:55Speaker 03

  That's awesome. So where are you right now in terms of like your next fight? Are you in a holding pattern?

• 2:28:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, everyone's got to fight. Lloron's the only guy who would make the most sense in my opinion. But like I said, I heard he was hurt. I think Diego Lopez is supposed to have somebody he's fighting.

• 2:28:12Speaker 03

  I think he's fighting lightweight now.

• 2:28:13Speaker 02

  That's what I heard.

• 2:28:13Speaker 03

  I heard Diego was moving up, which makes sense, cause he's big.

• 2:28:16Speaker 02

  He is a big dude.

• 2:28:17Speaker 03

  He's big. And after he beat Steve Garcia, which was a crazy fight.

• 2:28:22Speaker 02

  I got my thoughts on that.

• 2:28:23Speaker 03

  What's that?

• 2:28:24Speaker 02

  I got my thoughts on that.

• 2:28:25Speaker 03

  What are your thoughts on that?

• 2:28:29Speaker 03

  Think about it while you're lighting that cigar.

• 2:28:34Speaker 03

  Pause.

• 2:28:34Speaker 02

  So.

• 2:28:37Speaker 02

  Coming for that ass. I'm coming on that ass. No, I'm coming for that.

• 2:28:42Speaker 03

  I remember that.

• 2:28:43Speaker 02

  I still get those messages till this day, bro. It's the funniest thing I just say, yeah.

• 2:28:48Speaker 03

  You just got done with a fight, what are you gonna do?

• 2:28:50Speaker 02

  My adrenaline was through the roof. I'm on cloud nine. I just submitted the boogeyman of the division. Even back then, my managers, I heard talk that they thought he was going to be the first champ for their management company. And I took that as, as Michael Jordan would say, I took that shit personal, you know? So it's like, and I was so glad I proved the point and, um, yeah, I was just on a whole nother level. But yeah, Lloron's out. Garcia just lost. Arnold Allen just had a great fight with Costa. He lost to Gene Silva before that. Moser invoked, we know that, I fought Moser already.

• 2:29:30Speaker 03

  And Gene Silva's got to fight too now, right?

• 2:29:32Speaker 02

  He's supposed to be fighting Yair.

• 2:29:33Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 2:29:34Speaker 02

  Those are the rumors I saw circulating on the internet.

• 2:29:36Speaker 03

  That's right. That's an interesting fight.

• 2:29:38Speaker 02

  That'd be a fun one.

• 2:29:39Speaker 03

  Yair is always a wild card.

• 2:29:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:29:41Speaker 03

  That dude can kick.

• 2:29:42Speaker 02

  I was gonna say, his kicks, if there's a guy I don't want to fight, is that motherfucker? Because I know what the kicks do and I'm like, I don't want to, I don't want to be on the receiving end of that.

• 2:29:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, his kicks are crazy.

• 2:29:53Speaker 02

  Baseball bats getting swung at your head.

• 2:29:54Speaker 03

  And he's so dex, he's got so much dexterity. Like he can whip those kicks around from anywhere. He's so light on his feet, man. Those kicks are extraordinary. Yair is one of, he's one of the best kickers in the sport by far. A hundred percent.

• 2:30:09Speaker 02

  People think I have like a kicking background. I'm like, no, I just watched a lot of VHS tapes when I was a kid and played White Tiger, White Lion and all that stuff with my brothers growing up.

• 2:30:19Speaker 03

  Is that how you learned how to kick?

• 2:30:20Speaker 02

  Basically, we just.

• 2:30:21Speaker 03

  Really?

• 2:30:22Speaker 02

  See what we did on the, on the TV and just start imitating it and then we would have these battles. Right, I'm a family of 20, so I got a huge family.

• 2:30:28Speaker 03

  Wow, that's crazy. That's huge.

• 2:30:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, all the boys, we, we went to war with each other.

• 2:30:35Speaker 03

  And you just learned from watching movies?

• 2:30:37Speaker 02

  We learned from watching movies. We didn't, we didn't do anything traditional, like no martial arts, traditional background.

• 2:30:43Speaker 03

  So when did you first like get, like someone teach you technically how to kick?

• 2:30:49Speaker 02

  Um, I forget the guy's name. But when I was at Team Bomb Squad in New York, when I was in college and I was, I was just starting off as an amateur and early pro. Uh, we had this Muay Thai guy come up, Stone something, I, I want to say, but, uh, that's the first, he was working with John Jones. He was the first guy like showing John the elbows, the knees and stuff. And that's where I first, first started learning how to do like traditional Muay Thai kicks. Then I worked with this other guy named Primo Bella Rose. He was really good for me to work with. Irish guy, had a ton of Muay Thai fights. And then when I came to Long Island, I didn't really have like a, I still don't even have like a set Muay Thai instructor or anything like that. I just kind of know what I know from back then and I kind of just blended in where it makes sense.

• 2:31:34Speaker 03

  I know you train in Vegas sometimes too. I've seen you at Syndicate. You live there now? A hundred percent?

• 2:31:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:31:39Speaker 03

  Wow, what made you decide to do that?

• 2:31:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, my home's always going to be in New York, but I live in Vegas now. It's the fight capital of the world. Business for me over there, it's doing really, really well and, um.

• 2:31:52Speaker 03

  Is it because you get more training partners, more coaching?

• 2:31:55Speaker 02

  More coaching. Uh, and you know what?

• 2:31:57Speaker 03

  Are you still at Syndicate?

• 2:31:58Speaker 02

  No, I was, Marab was at Syndicate.

• 2:32:00Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:32:00Speaker 02

  I would go to Syndicate to help him.

• 2:32:01Speaker 03

  That's why I saw you training.

• 2:32:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, I would go down there to help him out for his fights. I started at XC, that's where I trained with first, with Nixig. The training times were a little bit odd for me. It was like 3:30 pro classes and stuff like that. But I think this sport's still kind of backwards. People doing all these classes, I think in the beginning is good, but I think eventually you have to get to that one-on-one. Elliot Taporia, O'Malley, Henry Cudo, Mighty Mouse, the way these guys are doing it.

• 2:32:30Speaker 03

  Tailored structured training camps for you.

• 2:32:32Speaker 02

  Like a boxing camp.

• 2:32:33Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:32:34Speaker 02

  Right? And even when I was back home in New York, that's basically how we essentially ran it. You know, I was running all the stuff that we were doing and, you know, Ray and those guys would come down and for sparring and I'd go to Sarah's for BJJ, working a lot with Jason, uh, Jason Rao, who's got his own school now too. I don't know if you know him, but he's, he's like the boogeyman everyone talks about in the training room. But for some reason in competition, he's just never really showed what he can truly do. But he's so talented, could walk you through everything and explain everything at a high level. But yeah, that's, that's kind of how I, I ran everything, but it's centered focus. And I felt like that's the best, our gym was on a run where everyone was killing the game.

• 2:33:15Speaker 03

  So is it also because Marab's in Vegas that you wanted to go to Vegas?

• 2:33:18Speaker 02

  I went, I moved for before him.

• 2:33:20Speaker 03

  Really?

• 2:33:20Speaker 02

  And then he moved in and he found a house right next to me.

• 2:33:24Speaker 03

  Oh, that's perfect. That's amazing.

• 2:33:26Speaker 02

  Literally like across the street from each other.

• 2:33:28Speaker 03

  Oh, that's amazing.

• 2:33:28Speaker 02

  It's pretty cool.

• 2:33:29Speaker 03

  That's, that's actually great. And where are you training? What gym are you training at there?

• 2:33:34Speaker 02

  The Q?

• 2:33:35Speaker 03

  I don't know that place.

• 2:33:36Speaker 02

  It's a brand new, um, before it was kind of like nomads land. We're training most of the classes at the PI, but you can't charge anybody, right? Using someone else's facility. So you can't be running a class and on top of that, charging people and.

• 2:33:50Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:33:50Speaker 02

  So that whole thing, so my coach, Mateus, he was eventually able to find a place. And now just about all the, the undergraduates are now graduates. Most of them are just about all signed to the UFC now. So we have a, we have Deoni Barbosa, we have Jean Paul Lambosine, I can never say his name. Um, Jean Paul, I just call him JP. Um, John Powell, I, I think he's supposed to be getting signed. Shane Collins just got signed. Uh, he had that debut against Atari, the Georgian, which was also a friend of mine who was kind of suck watching that fight. Cause it's like, ah, I don't want to see nobody get hurt. I don't want to see nobody lose. Ozzie Diaz, and I think Marab is now going to be shifting over to doing most of his camp. He's still going to be working with Syndicate, but he's going to be doing most of his camp with us.

• 2:34:34Speaker 02

  And there's a few that I'm sorry if I'm missing some other people. Don't, don't be mad at me, I'm sorry. I'm just a man.

• 2:34:39Speaker 03

  Don't worry. And so you have Mateus, not, not Mateus from London?

• 2:34:47Speaker 02

  No.

• 2:34:48Speaker 03

  What, what's Mateus's last name?

• 2:34:50Speaker 02

  Uh, Nakashi, Nakashi. He's from Novo Niall. He grew up with Aldo and those guys, Henner Barao, Johnny Eduardo. He's like, bro, you fight all my Brazilian friends, you beat all my coaches. Cause I beat Johnny Eduardo, I fought Henner Barao, I beat him. And, uh, he's like, bro, I remember I was there and you beat my coach. It's like, fuck it, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. But it's a good gym. You know what it is? It's a lot of the drills that we do, even in the classes, is practical. We're not doing eight, 10 punch combinations. We're doing real life, practical stuff, scenarios that happens in the fights. So I don't mind doing the classes with this, but I also like to do my one-on-ones afterwards, especially when it's fight specific that we need to work on. And I think they do a good job with that.

• 2:35:32Speaker 03

  Now, you were saying you had thoughts on the Steve Garcia Lopez fight. Again, another pause.

• 2:35:43Speaker 02

  Light one up for my boys.

• 2:35:44Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:35:45Speaker 02

  145. Yeah, Steve Fort. I always said Steve is the dark horse of the, of the division.

• 2:35:51Speaker 03

  He looks so good in the early going.

• 2:35:53Speaker 02

  Bro, if you watch some of his other fights, the one fight, the few fights he lost where he was knocked out was him just being more reckless than he probably should have been. Big frame for the weight class. His reach is fucking stupid.

• 2:36:07Speaker 03

  Crazy long.

• 2:36:08Speaker 02

  Crazy kicks. Um, when he gets you on the ground, his ground to pound is ferocious, like almost reckless to a point, right? And then he's fighting a super smart fight with Diego Lopez. Diego Lopez now comes out for round two. He flips the switch and says, fuck this technical shit, and just pulls him into a barn fight. And man, he clipped him. And he's been knocked out before, right? So if there's any way, a guy who has a granite chin who could rely on it is a guy like Diego Lopez. And I even said, I saw Diego Lopez at the PI and I told him, I was like, congrats on the fight. So we had a little, little beef, but it was, it was more so about who should have gotten the title shot. I thought he was gifted a title shot. Okay, cool.

• 2:36:50Speaker 03

  The second one, you mean?

• 2:36:51Speaker 02

  The first one. The first one. I thought it should have been Mosar.

• 2:36:54Speaker 03

  The second one was ridiculous.

• 2:36:55Speaker 02

  The second one was, was ridiculous too.

• 2:36:56Speaker 03

  Didn't make any sense.

• 2:36:57Speaker 02

  But congrats to him.

• 2:36:58Speaker 03

  Do you think they gave him the second one as a gift because he's, he fought short notice?

• 2:37:03Speaker 02

  Possibly.

• 2:37:03Speaker 03

  Yeah. It kinda seems like it.

• 2:37:06Speaker 02

  This one don't like me. But my, my whole thing is that's why we kinda bumped heads. We did train together one time. We were friendly, cordial, and the whole nine. And, uh, that kinda set a little riff in the relationship a little bit. We both fought at UFC 300. We took a back, a picture in the back. Um, but that's, that's what I said. It's like, I always speak my mind and on things and sometimes it gets me in trouble. And it turned to a whole thing with his manager and myself and Twitter beef and all this whole thing. And, uh, I thought the fight should have went to Mosar, just being fair, based on merit, should have gotten it. Tied up the, the, the division, jammed up fights that probably should have been in different directions, right? Um, but I thought, I told him, congratulations, you fought a smart fight, you pulled him into your style of fight. And that's how he got the job done. If he fought

• 2:37:50Speaker 02

  him on a technical standpoint like that, I think Diego would have probably ran away with it. Not Diego, um, Garcia.

• 2:37:55Speaker 03

  Garcia. Well, he just unfortunately went in, when, when Lopez started chasing after him, he engaged in that kind of fight.

• 2:38:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:38:05Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:38:06Speaker 02

  And that's what he does. I'm like, if I'm fighting Diego, I'm not doing that shit.

• 2:38:09Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:38:10Speaker 02

  I'm sure I could take a punch, but that guy's got mitts as one, and he knows he could rely on his chin. And he's probably looking at me like, I don't think this guy can knock me out, so I'm gonna risk it, right?

• 2:38:20Speaker 03

  He got a square jaw, dude.

• 2:38:22Speaker 02

  You have to understand what you're getting into.

• 2:38:24Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:38:24Speaker 02

  And that's what I was saying before about like, some of these guys, you have to understand thyself, you know?

• 2:38:28Speaker 03

  When you look at Diego, he, yeah, that's good. Yeah. Diego looks like he's designed to take a shot.

• 2:38:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:38:34Speaker 03

  Like one of the Mark Hunt type chins, you know, designed to take a shot.

• 2:38:39Speaker 02

  So that's why I go like, um, if I were to fight him, like I know how I would approach the fight. Obviously, the path of least resistance for me is always gonna be the ground, but he's, he's good on the ground too.

• 2:38:49Speaker 03

  Very good. He almost got Ivelouev, remember?

• 2:38:51Speaker 02

  The knee bar, the triangle, arm bar.

• 2:38:54Speaker 03

  Yeah, you could make an argument that he could have won that fight because he was closer to finishing multiple times, and those should count. Those, those submission attempts, close submission attempts should count in a big way. And just because a guy got out of it, doesn't mean he was almost dead. Like, that's, that means a lot. That means just as much as rocking a guy.

• 2:39:11Speaker 02

  It should.

• 2:39:12Speaker 03

  It should.

• 2:39:13Speaker 02

  But judges are judges and...

• 2:39:16Speaker 03

  That's a bad aspect of judges, because it's very difficult to get to a position like that where you're almost submitting a guy multiple times.

• 2:39:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:39:23Speaker 03

  Like, those are, those are like, very close. And if you were looking at that in terms of a jujitsu perspective, like, yeah, he's got the advantage.

• 2:39:29Speaker 02

  Hundred percent.

• 2:39:30Speaker 03

  Hundred percent.

• 2:39:31Speaker 02

  So that's why, that would be a tough fight for me, but it's the, I wanna fight the biggest names.

• 2:39:36Speaker 03

  Well, Diego's moved up. So Diego's 55 now.

• 2:39:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:39:39Speaker 03

  From what I understand, which makes sense, because he's fucking big. He, he, it was probably a real struggle for that dude to get down to 45.

• 2:39:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:39:47Speaker 03

  A real problem.

• 2:39:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:39:49Speaker 03

  But 55 is such a fucking lion's den too. What did you think of the Taporia-Gagey fight?

• 2:39:55Speaker 02

  I thought it was amazing, man. Like, for, for Gagey to come out, it kinda reminded me of the Tony Ferguson fight, right? The boogeyman. He did what he needed to do, had a perfect game plan. And what Gagey said was the most spot on thing. I was talking to one of my friends, they said, um, they like Gagey on the podcast, but they were like, uh, I thought he came off a little like, a little cocky or arrogant. I was like, I was like, as he fucking should.

• 2:40:19Speaker 03

  He's the champion of the world.

• 2:40:21Speaker 02

  Was trying to shit on him and gave him no chance to win the fight. If anyone relates to that is me. I understand exactly where he's coming from. Fuck, let him fucking talk his shit, because if, if the other guy won, best believe he would have been, his white rose, like he said he was gonna do, he's had beef with his dad. Like, there's a lot of built up animosity, whether it was fake, whatever, it was there. So let him have his time in the sun. So, but with the fight, I thought he, he, the thing he said that made the most sense to me, that resonated was, um, he changed people's perception of the fighter. Where before, people were kinda going in there hesitant, scared, and they kinda knew what they were walking into and it was gonna be a bad night.

• 2:41:02Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:41:02Speaker 02

  And going in there and doing that to Ferguson changed Ferguson's career. Going in there, doing this to Taporia, can Taporia bounce back and be the same guy and have that same aura, same persona, that people are gonna step in the octagon with him and be a little hesitant to wanna go in there with him because of what he's done in the past, but then also knowing that, yo, he's just like us, man. He puts his fucking pants on the same way we do, one leg at a time, unless he could jump and put both on at the same time.

• 2:41:30Speaker 03

  I think there's a physics element to it too. The reality of Gagey and Taporia is that Taporia is much smaller.

• 2:41:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:41:39Speaker 03

  He's a much smaller person. Look, he's got death in his hands. Death. And a lot of people would have folded in that second round. But Gagey is so fucking durable. He's so, and you can't make him quit. It's not, he's not going to quit. You might beat him, he's been beat before, but it's not because he doesn't believe in himself. And it's not because he can't endure. It's because he gets caught.

• 2:42:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:42:03Speaker 03

  You know, and you think about the way Ilya put it on him in that second round. He emptied the gas tank, emptied the gas tank, and Gagey was still there. And that's the problem, is you cannot empty the gas tank on that guy.

• 2:42:15Speaker 02

  I, I think he tried, he got ahead of himself too. I felt like he was trying to put an exclamation point bow tie ribbon on the finish.

• 2:42:24Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:42:25Speaker 02

  Where he could have submitted him, or maybe just go for the TKO, but instead he went for the Khabib like, mounted triangle that he, uh, Khabib hit on Gagey. And he was in the same position, was going for the same sequence. And I go, brother, this is either gonna be really dope, or it's gonna be the reason you lose. And he lost the position. Gagey gets back up and, man, just everything he did in the approach. If they had a rematch, maybe the fight goes different. Maybe Taporia, if he does, he takes him down and does what he's also really good at and submits him.

• 2:42:57Speaker 03

  Or maybe he's more patient with his attack.

• 2:43:00Speaker 02

  And moving his head more.

• 2:43:01Speaker 03

  Doesn't empty the gas tank in the second round when he has him hurt. It was, Justin's attitude is so crazy too. Like, when he got back to the corner, he's like, good body shot.

• 2:43:09Speaker 02

  He's the best.

• 2:43:11Speaker 03

  Like, congratulating him on, on hitting him with a good liver shot.

• 2:43:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. It's, uh, and he, man, he, the way he hit him, I was like, the fact that he didn't just go down and curl up in a ball and just say, all right, I'm just gonna take my paycheck and go home.

• 2:43:24Speaker 03

  Nope. Well, it was his last chance at 37 to be a world champion, and he did it. And he did it in the White House, which is crazy.

• 2:43:33Speaker 02

  So you're saying there's a chance?

• 2:43:35Speaker 03

  There's a saying there's a chance.

• 2:43:36Speaker 02

  37? You're saying there's a chance?

• 2:43:37Speaker 03

  Of course there's a chance. You've already pulled it off before. You 100% could be a world champion at 45. You know it.

• 2:43:43Speaker 02

  Bro, that would be the Cinderella ending for my career, bro.

• 2:43:47Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:43:48Speaker 02

  I can't even put into words like, what that would feel like. Like, I get like goosebumps even like, thinking and talking about it, because it's...

• 2:43:56Speaker 03

  Well, you're better and smarter than you've ever been before.

• 2:43:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:43:59Speaker 03

  All your experience, the Zalau fight's a great example of that. You're, you're at a, you know, world championship level at 45, for sure.

• 2:44:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:44:07Speaker 03

  Hundred percent.

• 2:44:08Speaker 02

  It's...

• 2:44:08Speaker 03

  It's a matter of whether or not you get that shot.

• 2:44:11Speaker 02

  I, and I, I think they should hopefully, let's say I don't get booked, because there's not a lot of options. But let's say they have their fight, hopefully it's in Abu Dhabi, sooner rather than later.

• 2:44:23Speaker 03

  I think that's when it's supposed to be, right?

• 2:44:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's what I've heard. And hopefully I'm the next guy, because then it's okay to wait. If not, then, you know, I'd rather stay active, stay busy, um, make money, and the whole nine. Because that's, that's, that's ultimately what it comes down to.

• 2:44:38Speaker 03

  So they haven't talked to you about any potential fights or offered you anything?

• 2:44:41Speaker 02

  They floated names. Um, Pico's now booked with Zalau.

• 2:44:45Speaker 03

  Oh, yes. Interesting.

• 2:44:47Speaker 02

  There's Vallejos, but with Vallejos, that's going so far back again for me. It's like, it's not a fight that makes a ton of sense, but... Whatever these guys want to do, but I've never said no. Maybe that's a problem.

• 2:45:03Speaker 03

  But ideally, you'd like to fight for the title next.

• 2:45:04Speaker 02

  Ideally, I would like to fight for the title next.

• 2:45:06Speaker 03

  And I think that makes sense, especially you as a former world champion at bantamweight. It makes sense.

• 2:45:11Speaker 02

  Especially if Volk wins.

• 2:45:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:45:12Speaker 02

  It's like, this is a big fight you can make. Two OGs of their weight classes. Everything I've done at the bantamweight division, set the records. Why not?

• 2:45:21Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:45:21Speaker 02

  You know, so.

• 2:45:22Speaker 03

  Well, I mean, he, after Laron knocked out Pico, he was saying, "I'll see you next." And we thought that was gonna be the case.

• 2:45:28Speaker 02

  And it changed.

• 2:45:29Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:45:31Speaker 02

  So hopefully, I don't know. Hopefully, he changes, but it changes.

• 2:45:34Speaker 03

  Now, Laron loses to Ibluwev. And, you know, and then the whole thing is just upside down now. Because Laron, after he knocked out Pico, looked like the man.

• 2:45:43Speaker 02

  I mean, it wasn't looking like the man before that, but.

• 2:45:46Speaker 03

  Well, Pico's a bad motherfucker, dude.

• 2:45:48Speaker 02

  He didn't get like no fucks. I was like, dude, you gotta slow down.

• 2:45:52Speaker 03

  He's so reckless. I mean, it makes him so exciting, but listen. He adjusted in the pit bull fight.

• 2:45:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:45:58Speaker 03

  In a perfect way. I mean, he looked like world class in the pit, in the pit bull fight. That left hook he has is beautiful.

• 2:46:04Speaker 02

  It's nasty.

• 2:46:05Speaker 03

  Oh, it's beautiful. It's perfect. Like, they should study it. They should, they should teach that left hook, the Aaron Pico left hook. Him and Ilya. Ilya's left hook is fucking phenomenal. That left hook to the body.

• 2:46:16Speaker 02

  Ilya just does such a good job. Once he gets going and he hits a slip and he's just like, bink, bink, bink. It's almost like Connor-esque. The way he just lines up his shots, vintage Connor.

• 2:46:26Speaker 03

  Vintage Connor, like Eddie Alvarez Connor.

• 2:46:28Speaker 02

  Oh, my god.

• 2:46:29Speaker 03

  That was when he was The Matrix.

• 2:46:30Speaker 02

  Who is it, uh, they did a side-by-side, Euros Medic with, uh, D-Rod?

• 2:46:34Speaker 03

  Yes, I saw that.

• 2:46:35Speaker 02

  And it was a problem. I was like, there's no way this is like the same exact combination.

• 2:46:40Speaker 03

  Close, except for the knee.

• 2:46:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:46:41Speaker 03

  Yeah. Euros Medic look good, man.

• 2:46:44Speaker 02

  He's another motherfucker.

• 2:46:45Speaker 03

  He's another motherfucker. And another guy who was cutting too much weight.

• 2:46:48Speaker 02

  At 55, yeah.

• 2:46:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. At 70, that's perfect for him. Because he's big, man. He's so tall.

• 2:46:53Speaker 02

  I think all first rounds, too.

• 2:46:55Speaker 03

  Uh-huh.

• 2:46:55Speaker 02

  Just starching guys.

• 2:46:57Speaker 03

  Serbia is a wild place, too, man. They're wild people.

• 2:47:00Speaker 02

  Brother. Brother, it was hostile. They were nice to me, but my Albanian friends.

• 2:47:06Speaker 03

  Oh, I'm sure.

• 2:47:07Speaker 02

  Because there's still a lot of history that wasn't too long ago. And I always tell my friends, I'm like, yo, we are blessed to be in this country. Because the shit we bitch about and complain about, these are luxuries, liberties, and freedoms that a lot of these countries do not have.

• 2:47:23Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:47:23Speaker 02

  And all it takes is a short trip overseas and you'll see, hey, I can't wait to go back home and I'll kiss the ground.

• 2:47:32Speaker 02

  It ain't perfect, but we got a lot, you know?

• 2:47:35Speaker 03

  Have you ever seen those Serbian basketball games?

• 2:47:37Speaker 02

  I heard about it. I didn't get to see them, though. I heard, they were talking about, I think we were supposed to go to one or something like that.

• 2:47:41Speaker 03

  It's like war. Like, the chants in the audience is crazy.

• 2:47:46Speaker 02

  The flares and everything, too?

• 2:47:47Speaker 03

  Well, it's the chants. It's when they, they're chanting, you're like, Jesus. It's like daunting. It's, it's very different than anything you ever see in America.

• 2:47:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:47:56Speaker 03

  It's like, they're, first of all, their national pride, like, give me some volume on this.

• 2:48:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, the flares, bro.

• 2:48:02Speaker 03

  Serbian basketball game. Yeah, they're, they're lighting that place on fire. I mean, it might as well be a riot.

• 2:48:13Speaker 02

  Now, is this actually basketball, like, how we know it?

• 2:48:15Speaker 03

  Bro, basketball.

• 2:48:16Speaker 02

  Not Dagestani style?

• 2:48:18Speaker 03

  They're fucking good. No, no, no.

• 2:48:19Speaker 02

  They're not tackling each other.

• 2:48:19Speaker 03

  The Dagestani stuff is crazy. Like, listen to the crowd.

• 2:48:26Speaker 03

  Fuck.

• 2:48:31Speaker 03

  Bro, they get into it.

• 2:48:33Speaker 02

  Look at that stadium.

• 2:48:35Speaker 03

  I know.

• 2:48:39Speaker 02

  Amazing.

• 2:48:40Speaker 03

  It's like war.

• 2:48:44Speaker 03

  I mean, the energy. The fucking crowd, it's, the energy is like, the energy in an American NBA game times 10.

• 2:48:51Speaker 02

  Shout out to Knicks.

• 2:48:52Speaker 03

  It's crazy. It's crazy how much, like, look at all the movement in the crowd. I mean, these people are active. I mean, it's kind of nuts.

• 2:49:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, we don't. That's the one unfortunate thing. I feel like our sports isn't as like, um, like, our fan base is, besides New Yorkers, who will beat you up for beating a rival team in the playoff finals.

• 2:49:14Speaker 02

  Wearing the wrong jersey, you better take that shit off. Um, we don't really get like, like, we don't, we don't do a lot. Yeah, that's like.

• 2:49:21Speaker 03

  Well, those people have been to war pretty recently.

• 2:49:23Speaker 02

  It's different.

• 2:49:24Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:49:25Speaker 02

  So different.

• 2:49:26Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:49:27Speaker 02

  But it makes you appreciate. That's why, that's why, like, I go back to, like, it makes me appreciate, like, what we have here. And the fact that we can achieve basically whatever it is that we want to. It's gonna be, it's not easy, but we can.

• 2:49:40Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 2:49:41Speaker 02

  We can, we can try. We have the option to try.

• 2:49:44Speaker 03

  Anything. Yeah, I mean, this is literally the land of opportunity. But when you see people that come from Serbia, we see people that come from Dagestan, we see people that come from these, like, war-torn Chechnya, they're different. Because their, their childhood was different.

• 2:49:59Speaker 02

  Different mentality.

• 2:50:00Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's a different mentality. It's a warrior mentality. It's very different.

• 2:50:03Speaker 02

  Yeah. Like, I've seen, I've learned a little bit from Murab and going to Georgia, learning the history about them and Russia and the whole, the whole war and everything and the political side of things. And then going to Albania, going to Kosovo, and then going to Serbia and, and seeing how, like, the Serbians are coming up to my Albanian friends, introducing themselves, basically, or asking the, my friends where they're from. And then just straight up just saying, Kosovo's Serbia. As an introduction, I would go, are we just trying to start a fight right now? Like, I don't even understand. Can we just be like, can we just be cool? You're, we're in your country. We just accept one another for what it is. We're here for the fights. We're not here to fight. Just have, oh, before I forget this.

• 2:50:48Speaker 02

  So we were at a, we were, after one of the nights, I think we went to one of the, the clubs on the wa, on the water. And we go out to this food spot to go get food, it's called Good Food or whatever. And we're there. We're with some of the staff, the UFC staff. We're hanging out. These guys are always great. We're having a good time, a couple fighters. And, um, I guess one of the guys came over and was talking to one of our friends. And he goes to him, like, our friend looks straight up Dardanian. Like, he looks like a straight up Illyrian bloodline. Like, he looks straight up Albanian. And he asks him where he's from. He tells him, oh, I'm Albanian, I'm from, uh, I think he says he's from Kosovo. And they start talking, but then, sure enough, the guy, I guess, starts reaching into his

• 2:51:33Speaker 02

  pocket. And he says whatever he says. They don't speak Serbian, it's a different language. And we have a Serbian friend with us. And he translates, he translates for him and he tells him, he says, "If you guys don't clear out in 10 minutes, I'm gonna blow this place up." Brother, what? I'm taking a piss break around the corner outside somewhere, because I'm like, been drinking all night, I gotta, I gotta find somewhere to go. I come back and they're explaining this to me. So we start telling the girls. He says, when the guy starts going down the steps, he's like trying to talk to the guy, he keeps taking a step back. He said, he starts sweating profusely. He's got his hand in his, in his back pocket and he moves it to, moves it to the front. And, um, he's just like waving, whatever, saying whatever he's saying in Serbian, telling everybody they, they better leave.

• 2:52:18Speaker 02

  And he said, he thought it was a gun. And then he asked our Serbian friend, he said, "No, it was a grenade." I was like, what? He's just casually walking around with a fucking grenade? Are you kidding me?

• 2:52:32Speaker 03

  And just because they were Albanian?

• 2:52:33Speaker 02

  Brother, this is, this is life for these guys. It's, and I know people are gonna be, they're gonna criticize, oh, we're not all like, of course, not everyone is like that. But there's still some crazy people out there that still have this pent-up resentment and anger for everything because of the separation of the lands and all this. But this, it's almost like the, the Israel-Palestine thing. It's, uh, all the lands get divided from years ago, and then you did this to me, but then you did this to me, but then you did this to me first, but then you did this to me back then. And I'm like, what are you gonna go back to, to B.C.? Like, what the fuck are we talking about? Can we draw a line in the sand and go, okay, this is where we all agree that this is where it should be?

• 2:53:16Speaker 02

  And just make everybody happy, or somewhat happy, so that we can go on with our lives in peace? You know what I mean? It's just.

• 2:53:22Speaker 03

  The problem is, the war is so recent for them.

• 2:53:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:53:26Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:53:28Speaker 02

  I was so, I was so, like, broken up about it. I'm just like, dude, I did not know it was like this, man. This is like, because you're from this country and this guy had a pleasant conversation with you, he's gonna.

• 2:53:39Speaker 03

  He's got a fucking grenade.

• 2:53:40Speaker 02

  Pull out a fucking grenade, he's going, walking, I'm like, no. It's crazy. But.

• 2:53:46Speaker 03

  Yeah, don't take any fights over there if you're Albanian.

• 2:53:49Speaker 02

  God bless America. Well, Dennis is Albanian.

• 2:53:52Speaker 03

  That's crazy.

• 2:53:53Speaker 02

  And the chants he was getting, basically what they told me it translates to was kill Albanians. And I'm laughing, because I don't understand every, anything. I'm just laughing because I'm like, yo, this is sick. You're in the main event. This was like me fighting O'Malley in the main event. The crowd was packed. They could not wait for Dennis to make that walk. Booing, you hear chants, Kosovo's Serbia, Kosovo's Serbia, Kosovo's Serbia. And, um, yeah, unfortunately, but I told Dennis, I was like, you handled it well. Like, you know, even in hostile territory, you, you came in like a champ. You, you didn't piss anybody off. You were just doing what you normally do. You do your ego every fight. You're not looking to provoke anybody. And, uh, it was nice to see you, even after the fight, whatever the fucked up stoppage.

• 2:54:37Speaker 02

  He was, he got a better reception on the way out. There were still some, like, angry fans, like.

• 2:54:42Speaker 03

  Well, luckily, he didn't win.

• 2:54:47Speaker 02

  I was like, "Bro, you had won this fight here?" "I don't know, man, we had to run."

• 2:54:51Speaker 03

  They might have blew up the hotel.

• 2:54:53Speaker 02

  Oh, my god.

• 2:54:54Speaker 03

  Imagine you fight Uros Medic over there and you beat him?

• 2:54:59Speaker 02

  Bro, I don't even know if I'm supposed to say this, but his dad was told when he got to, I guess, the hotel that he wasn't welcome here. He had to go all the way back to Albania.

• 2:55:08Speaker 03

  Really?

• 2:55:08Speaker 02

  He drove all the way down, had to drive all the way back.

• 2:55:11Speaker 03

  Wow, that's serious.

• 2:55:13Speaker 02

  Cause his last name.

• 2:55:14Speaker 03

  Holy shit.

• 2:55:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, they told him, "You're not welcome here."

• 2:55:17Speaker 03

  This is... God bless America.

• 2:55:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:55:20Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, here's the thing, like in America, like when Russians fight in the UFC, everybody cheers.

• 2:55:27Speaker 02

  Oh, I got, P D R, I got the biggest reception.

• 2:55:29Speaker 03

  But I mean, even now, even now, in the middle of the Ukraine war and all that shit, like when Russians fight over here, nobody cares. If you could fight, they'll cheer you. There's a few people that yell out, "USA, USA," and that's all good, because it's just, it's not that bad, you know? It's just, they're cheering for the American, but they're not saying death to the Russian. You know what I mean?

• 2:55:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, we don't have a phrase, we don't have a statement.

• 2:55:54Speaker 03

  Right, but would you fight in Russia right now?

• 2:55:56Speaker 02

  Um...

• 2:55:57Speaker 03

  Imagine if you were fighting a Russian in Russia right now, how scared?

• 2:56:01Speaker 02

  I got offered a RAF match in Russia.

• 2:56:04Speaker 03

  What's a RAF match?

• 2:56:05Speaker 02

  RAF?

• 2:56:06Speaker 03

  Oh, I thought you meant like raft, like you fight on a raft?

• 2:56:09Speaker 02

  No, no, that'd be crazy.

• 2:56:10Speaker 03

  Did you see Murab was sparring with Zuckerberg on a raft?

• 2:56:13Speaker 02

  Basically a raft. Uh, he did a sparring, kick off the raft, and then he picked him up and slammed him into the water.

• 2:56:19Speaker 03

  So you got offered one of those matches?

• 2:56:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, it'd been my second one. The first one was with Benson Henderson. Uh, that was a fun match, more so for me, but, um... Yeah, but I was just like, it was a really good prospect, 12-0 guy, I think he fights at PFL. Tough guy, but I'm like, dude, I'm leaving Albania, I just left Baku. I have no desire to go all the way back overseas again. I want to prepare for a fight, I want to sell some rum, I want to fucking sell some cigars, help my training partners, it's like, and I got a wife, I gotta make sure that I'm...

• 2:56:54Speaker 03

  Your home.

• 2:56:55Speaker 02

  Kind of home, like give her some attention and some love, you know, some TLC.

• 2:56:58Speaker 03

  Well, it's also, there's a reality of wrestling matches that you have the potential of blowing a knee out.

• 2:57:02Speaker 02

  That too.

• 2:57:03Speaker 03

  That's real.

• 2:57:04Speaker 02

  So...

• 2:57:06Speaker 03

  You know, who was the Russian guy who blew his knee out?

• 2:57:09Speaker 02

  It was a Georgian guy.

• 2:57:11Speaker 03

  Is that what it was?

• 2:57:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, the big, the big heavyweight guy.

• 2:57:13Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:57:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, Georgian guy. He was like a silver medalist in the Olympics.

• 2:57:16Speaker 03

  I mean, you can, you can blow a knee out in these matches, and then you're fucked.

• 2:57:20Speaker 02

  And all the injuries in MMA, basically, what were you doing?

• 2:57:23Speaker 03

  Wrestling. Wrestling, yeah.

• 2:57:25Speaker 02

  Uh, the culprit.

• 2:57:27Speaker 03

  Well, listen, Hal Jermaine, it's always good to have you on here, brother, and, uh, good luck with the rum company. It's called Harbor, what is it called?

• 2:57:34Speaker 02

  Funk Harbor Rum, and, uh, we actually got a, uh, a community app now too, it's called joinfunkharbor.com.

• 2:57:41Speaker 03

  And what is the website, if people want to go and see the rum?

• 2:57:43Speaker 02

  Well, if they want to join the community, it's joinfunkharbor.com. If you want to purchase, funkharborrum.com or funkharborspirits.com, uh, pretty easy. And we're looking for distributors, more distributors to keep growing this thing as best as we can. And, uh, the best thing about it is we're actually giving people an opportunity to help grow this thing from the ground up. We're two years in as of August 1st, and, uh, we doubled ourselves from, uh, from last year, so we're in a really, really good spot, so I'm excited about that. And anyone that's been following me from the beginning of my career, they get an opportunity to now take the ride with us, and we got perks and stuff like that, all listed on the Republic campaign for the crowdfunding.

• 2:58:19Speaker 03

  I'm so happy that you have something like this, it's really cool. It's good, it's smart too. It's really good to invest in something like that.

• 2:58:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, so far, so good, and...

• 2:58:28Speaker 03

  And good luck in whatever happens in the future, because I really do hope you get another title shot.

• 2:58:32Speaker 02

  Oh, my god, that'd be...

• 2:58:34Speaker 03

  It would be, that's the right way. The right way is, yeah, because, again, you're 37, this is, this is the time.

• 2:58:41Speaker 02

  Clock's ticking.

• 2:58:42Speaker 03

  Yeah. Thank you, brother, I appreciate you. Always good to see you, my friend.

• 2:58:46Speaker 02

  Always.

• 2:58:47Speaker 03

  All right, bye, everybody.