JRE MMA Show #172 with Gable Steveson

Joe sits down with Gable Steveson, a mixed martial artist, wrestler, boxer, and Olympic gold medalist. www.gablesteveson.com Perplexity: Download the app or ask Perplexity anything at https://pplx.ai/rogan. Get a free welcome kit with your first subscription of AG1 at https://drinkag1.com/joerogan Athletic Brewing Co. Non-alcoholic Beer. Fit For All Times. Athletic Brewing Company LLC. Milford, CT and San Diego, CA. Near Beer <0.5% alc/vol. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  The Joe Rogan Experience. Training by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day.

• 0:12Speaker 01

  All right, what's happening?

• 0:13Joe Rogan?

  Pleasure to meet you, man.

• 0:14Speaker 01

  How are you?

• 0:15Joe Rogan?

  Great, I'm great. When you got a name like Gable and you're named after Dan Gable and you go on to win an Olympic gold medal in wrestling, that is kind of...

• 0:24Speaker 01

  That's crazy, right?

• 0:24Joe Rogan?

  It's kind of prophetic.

• 0:26Speaker 01

  My mom, when I was young, she was trying to find names for me and she liked Kale Sanderson because Kale was a guy at the time, but she was at a tournament in Iowa with my older brother and she kept hearing Gable, Gable, Gable, and it was Dan Gable at the time. And you know, Dan Gable was a huge figure in the Midwest for wrestling and so she was like, "Why don't I name you Gable Dan?" And the rest was history, which is really crazy because his whole timeline is my timeline, which is fantastic.

• 0:50Joe Rogan?

  Except the MMA part.

• 0:51Speaker 01

  That too. Which I wish he would have done.

• 0:53Joe Rogan?

  Wow, he would have been amazing.

• 0:55Speaker 01

  I think he would have been amazing.

• 0:56Joe Rogan?

  But it wasn't around. I mean, when he was wrestling.

• 0:59Speaker 01

  Barronaco, maybe? I don't know, do it on the street or something.

• 1:02Joe Rogan?

  He could have found a way. It's kind of fucked that there's no real professional outlet for actual wrestling.

• 1:09Speaker 01

  It is fucked. And wrestling needs a real way to go out there and be something big. And I think they have a really good one now with RAF. If you haven't heard about it?

• 1:20Joe Rogan?

  Yes, I have.

• 1:20Speaker 01

  It's American Freestyle. They're trying and I think they're trying really well and I think it's going to come to a point where how do you make matchups continue? Because you know, wrestling gets to the point where, and fighting and a lot of the sports, you can get to the point where you know, maybe you draft a guy and fighting, there's a next big thing. There's a next guy out there that you can kind of create and with wrestling, they're trying to create an atmosphere of how can you create that person? And I like it and I think it might work and hopefully it keeps going the way it needs to go.

• 1:46Joe Rogan?

  It would be interesting if it... The problem is MMA is so huge now and people kind of associate wrestling with either MMA or pro wrestling now. Those are the two things that they think of. And it's one, I think it's one of those things like soccer where soccer should be huge in America. It's huge all over the world, right? It's a very exciting sport, but nope.

• 2:09Speaker 01

  You know what's crazy? How popular soccer players are. And I feel like in America, we have so many sports that like we can't hit that market for soccer. And I think that might be the biggest case why, because if you go overseas, Ronaldo's paid five hundred million dollars. And if he scores a goal, he gets a million dollars a goal or something. So he's out here doing bicycle kicks. But it's like, we have so many professional sports that LeBron James is our biggest athlete. But even then, I think it's at a point where some people see LeBron and you know, it's not like the crazy wow factors. If you saw a soccer player in Italy or Spain, it'd be like, man, that's him.

• 2:45Joe Rogan?

  Right. Well, they have less sports though, right?

• 2:48Speaker 01

  I think so.

• 2:49Joe Rogan?

  Italy?

• 2:50Speaker 01

  I think Italy got like basketball, soccer.

• 2:52Joe Rogan?

  Well, they're not really known for basketball though. Soccer's big, boxing, there's a lot of boxers come out of Italy. But other than that.

• 2:59Speaker 01

  Rome.

• 3:00Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 3:02Speaker 01

  Ah, they got a couple of fighters. But other than that, I think we're kind of at a halt with with creating that that big guy for America.

• 3:13Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's just, it's just strange to me because it's such a wrestling itself is such an exciting sport. It really is very exciting to watch and everybody understands it. It's not complicated.

• 3:24Speaker 01

  I think, I really think everyone understands it to a certain extent.

• 3:27Joe Rogan?

  But they could learn the points and all the other stuff.

• 3:31Speaker 01

  Have you wrestled?

• 3:32Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, wrestled in high school.

• 3:33Speaker 01

  How, how?

• 3:34Joe Rogan?

  Just one year. I was doing Taekwondo at the same time. Because I was doing Taekwondo and I couldn't do both of them at the same time. And I was pretty good at Taekwondo.

• 3:41Speaker 01

  You know what's crazy? I think since you've done Taekwondo, maybe I should try.

• 3:45Joe Rogan?

  You are such an athlete, you'd probably be awesome at it.

• 3:48Speaker 01

  I might, I might be able to pull it off. I don't know if I can get to your level.

• 3:51Joe Rogan?

  Well, you would figure it out, man. You'd figure it out. Are you flexible?

• 3:56Speaker 01

  It depends how and what are we doing?

• 3:58Joe Rogan?

  Well, you would get flexible. The thing is like a guy like you'd figure out how to get flexible. The flexibility thing drives me nuts because like I've tried to show stuff to guys before MMA fighters. And they're like, I'm not flexible. I'm like. What does that mean? What does that mean? This is not like you're not tall.

• 4:14Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 4:15Joe Rogan?

  Like, you can get flexible.

• 4:16Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 4:16Joe Rogan?

  Like, you just stretch.

• 4:17Speaker 01

  Okay, we can rewind now and I could say I am flexible.

• 4:21Joe Rogan?

  Well, you certainly could get flexible.

• 4:23Speaker 01

  You can.

• 4:24Joe Rogan?

  Anyone can get flexible.

• 4:25Speaker 01

  But it's not, can you get flexible? Do you want to get flexible?

• 4:29Joe Rogan?

  That's a good question.

• 4:29Speaker 01

  Do you want to do something?

• 4:31Joe Rogan?

  This is a good question. It's a lot of work to get flexible. And would it compromise anything? You know, some people say it compromises some stability. You know, like, to have, like, completely over-flexible hips and flexible joints that it could possibly compromise some stability that maybe... But I mean, Yoel Romero is pretty fucking flexible.

• 4:49Speaker 01

  And he's explosive.

• 4:51Joe Rogan?

  Crazy explosive.

• 4:51Speaker 01

  Super explosive.

• 4:52Joe Rogan?

  Bro, how about that match with Pat Downey?

• 4:54Speaker 01

  He went out there and made Pat Downey look like a beginner wrestler. And it's crazy because Pat Downey's really good.

• 4:59Joe Rogan?

  Really good?

• 5:00Speaker 01

  Yoel's 48.

• 5:01Joe Rogan?

  I know.

• 5:02Speaker 01

  48 shooting blast doubles, like, he's just, like, he's back in 04 Olympics.

• 5:06Joe Rogan?

  It doesn't make any sense. He's a freak. He's a real freak, man. And, I mean, he's 48 allegedly. We don't even really know how old he is, because he's from Cuba.

• 5:16Speaker 01

  How old do you think he is for real?

• 5:18Joe Rogan?

  Oh, I don't know, man.

• 5:19Speaker 01

  35 at this point?

• 5:22Joe Rogan?

  I mean, he's obviously at least 48. But it's just crazy.

• 5:27Speaker 01

  But you know what the best part about it is? When guys get older and they kind of get a little bigger, they don't look good in a singlet. And this is crazy to say, but Yoel looks really solid in that singlet.

• 5:37Joe Rogan?

  Oh, bro, he looks solid everywhere, man. He's still got a six-pack.

• 5:40Speaker 01

  Still does.

• 5:41Joe Rogan?

  And, you know, now he's doing dirty boxing and he's still fighting MMA. He's just, he's a freak. I mean, and we really didn't even get him in MMA until he was past his athletic prime.

• 5:53Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 5:53Joe Rogan?

  I mean, he really started fighting in the UFC. How old was he when he first fought in the UFC? I want to say he was, like, 35?

• 5:58Speaker 01

  I don't know that, but it seemed really late, because when he was going through Olympics, he was sound in every position. And, like you said, I mean, in a couple interviews back, if he would have started that early, just imagine.

• 6:09Joe Rogan?

  Oh, my god.

• 6:09Speaker 01

  Just imagine.

• 6:12Joe Rogan?

  But that's the thing that you have too, is athleticism. And the thing about MMA is... The real freak athletes, they go to football, they go to basketball, they go where all the money is, and they go where all the traditional sports avenues are. And it's just, there's not a lot of freak athletes that wind up making their way to MMA, and when they do, they really shine. You know, and when I first started seeing you competing, you know, first, obviously, in wrestling, and, you know, if you can win a gold medal in the Olympics in wrestling, I mean, you have to have everything. You have to have everything. You have to be a freak athlete, you have to be unbelievably dedicated, disciplined. Nobody gets there easy.

• 6:48Speaker 01

  No.

• 6:49Joe Rogan?

  That is not, you know, like, oh, he's just gifted. It doesn't exist. You gotta have, you gotta have everything, man.

• 6:55Speaker 01

  There's gotta be a lot of tools.

• 6:56Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 6:56Speaker 01

  A lot, a lot of tools.

• 6:57Joe Rogan?

  A lot of tools and a lot of fortitude. The thing about wrestling that I've always said is like, not only is it the best base for MMA, because if a guy can dictate where the fight takes place, that is the most important aspect of fighting, and you can learn everything else. But it's also, it's like, the mental toughness that wrestlers have, the ability to grind out those practices, the conditioning that's involved in wrestling. It's above and beyond, I think, all other sports.

• 7:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think it's a next level thing. And you see in UFC right now, the guys that are dominating and winning are kind of putting that wrestling base first, but making it MMA wrestling. You know, I feel like when a lot of guys, a lot of D1 wrestlers come to MMA, they kind of don't make the switch of how to take the right shot, and how to finish the right shot, and how to use your feet to trip their feet out on the cage, and if you get stuck with a, stuck in a guillotine, how do you move from that spot? And I think you see the guys that are doing it best, the Islams, the Hamzats, are really going out there and attacking, and making sure that people can understand that, hey, you gotta fear this, and then next, I'm gonna come with the hands. And so, I think that's the biggest thing that we're working on now, is that I've wrestled my whole life, and I've done great things, and won the Olympics, and multiple national championships, but I think the main thing is going out there

• 8:06Speaker 01

  and understanding that you are that bad dude, but when you show them hands, now you got to have to respect both. And I think that's where a lot of this is gonna come into play, when I finally get to that point of, of reaching that, that competition.

• 8:19Joe Rogan?

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• 9:04Joe Rogan?

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• 9:46Joe Rogan?

  and save $10 on your first month with promo code ROGEN. Terms apply. See Visible.com for plan, features, and network management details. This episode is brought to you by The Mosquito Bowl. Here's a story that's pretty incredible. After Pearl Harbor, four of the best college football players in America walk away from promising NFL careers to enlist in the Marines and fight in World War II. And the craziest part? It's a true story. These guys had their whole lives ahead of them, but traded the glory of the gridiron for the brutal reality of combat, where the stakes were life and death. Directed by Peter Berg, the guy behind Friday Night Lights, and starring Nicholas Galitzine,

• 10:29Joe Rogan?

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• 10:37Joe Rogan?

  Now, how long have you been striking for?

• 10:40Speaker 01

  I've been going into a little, so I'm from Minnesota, Apple Valley, I'm actually from Portage, Indiana. I moved to Apple Valley, Minnesota when I was 11 years old. And in college, I met a guy named Billy Simon. He's from Prior Lake. He fought, nothing too big, just on a regional scene in Minnesota. He has a house on Prior Lake and he has a place in his basement that is built out for MMA and stuff like that. When I was maybe 21 years old, I started hitting the pads. And mind you, stiff as a board, don't really know what I'm doing. But he's kind of started and guided me along the way.

• 11:09Joe Rogan?

  And how old are you now?

• 11:09Speaker 01

  I'm 25.

• 11:10Joe Rogan?

  So, just four years?

• 11:11Speaker 01

  Just four years, but I think really, really striking, seven months.

• 11:19Joe Rogan?

  That's so crazy.

• 11:20Speaker 01

  Like, really after it-

• 11:21Joe Rogan?

  That's so crazy.

• 11:22Speaker 01

  Really time-consuming, hey, this is what I want to do. I'm not going to wrestle. I'm doing MMA. I would say seven months.

• 11:30Joe Rogan?

  But when you watched your dirty boxing match, I would have never believed that. Except, I know what an athlete you are. It's just, it's so crazy how someone who really knows how to use their body can learn other things.

• 11:42Speaker 01

  Well, I think the main thing also is, I'm all ears. You know, you can't have, you can't go out there and think that you can, you can do something without putting that time and effort in, like we talked about with the Olympics, or like you talked about. But I think the main thing is, if I can go out there and be all ears, and soak up game from the people that are trying to, trying to show me the way, I think I can do a lot of great things. And that's all I do. I'm all ears. I'm going to show up twice a day. I want to do the best thing that I can. If I got to show up three times a day and I feel like it, I'm going to go do it. Because-

• 12:10Joe Rogan?

  It's also to be an elite athlete like yourself, you have to be coachable. You have to really, like, the guys who like, already know things, like, I'm going to do it my way, like, they didn't, never get elite.

• 12:21Speaker 01

  It doesn't work.

• 12:21Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 12:22Speaker 01

  And I think, you got to put that guard down. You got to trust somebody. And if you don't trust anybody, and, man, I think I can do it alone, I think I can kind of wing it, I think I can maybe not practice today, you got to trust somebody, and you got to put your heart into somebody. And I feel like I have a good group of people around me to kind of put that heart into. And they're kind of, they're not even, they're kind of, they're leading me in the right direction, and I'm, man, I'm grateful.

• 12:43Joe Rogan?

  So, you were doing a bunch of different things, right? So, you, you become an elite wrestler, and then, for a while, you were thinking about playing football. So, you played football for a short amount of time?

• 12:54Speaker 01

  Buffalo Bills, yeah.

• 12:55Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. How long did you play it for?

• 12:57Speaker 01

  I never played football in my life.

• 12:58Joe Rogan?

  Never played?

• 12:59Speaker 01

  No, that was the first-

• 13:02Joe Rogan?

  Hey.

• 13:02Speaker 01

  That was, that was the first time I played football, I promise.

• 13:04Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy. First time you played football was professional?

• 13:07Speaker 01

  Was in NFL. My mom was always scared. The high school coaches at Apple Valley High School in Minnesota were like, hey, can play football? They were trying to call my mom and dad and I'm like, you're not gonna convince her. She is scared to death of football. The whole time, I'm wrestling. So what, where do we bridge this gap at?

• 13:22Joe Rogan?

  Right, right.

• 13:23Speaker 01

  And I just get done with WWE and I go out there and I'm chilling. I get a call saying, hey, you wanna try out for the Bills? And I, I tell Sean McDermott and Brandon Bean, I said, hey, don't expect much, but I could put on shoes, but I've never had football cleats on. I never had pads on. I don't even know how to put the tights on, anything. And I went out there and I sprinted my ass off though in that tryout. I was sprinting down and back and forth. I said, hey, if I don't know any technique for D-line, you're gonna see effort. And McDermott saw effort and that's all he needed to see and he gave me a chance.

• 13:55Joe Rogan?

  What was that like? Like jumping into a completely new sport?

• 13:59Speaker 01

  Hard because it's not just football.

• 14:02Joe Rogan?

  And how old were you when you did that?

• 14:04Speaker 01

  Twenty, I just turned 24.

• 14:05Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 14:06Speaker 01

  I just turned 24. It's.

• 14:08Joe Rogan?

  Ooh.

• 14:10Speaker 01

  I know you see it. You see that stance? That's the beginner stance. That's the beginner stance. But I came out there, no gloves, just winging it. And I told them, just, just give me a good chance, but football is not just football. It's the playbook. And the playbook is crazy because I went from, hey, go out there and wrestle someone one-on-one to see if the guard is light on his feet or see if he's leaning forward, to see if the center is, is gonna silent count maybe, or see if he, see if the guard taps the center to snap the ball. There's a lot of different things that you gotta know. And I'm out there with this big ass helmet on. I've never put a helmet on, Joe, so I'm out there with this big ass helmet. And my head's like down and I can't look up. And I don't know what I'm doing. But I knew if I gave effort that someone would give me a chance. And I, I went out there and my first game, I feel like, I think I had a tackle,

• 14:55Speaker 01

  a QB rush, and I was kind of unheard of at the time because I've never played ball before, but it was crazy. Once in a lifetime experience, most definitely.

• 15:03Joe Rogan?

  And when you got cut, did you think about trying somewhere else? Did you think about doing it more?

• 15:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, once I got cut from Buffalo, I was the last one to get cut from the, from the room. I remember going in to see Bean and McDermott and they were gonna do practice squad. But I knew they were gonna do practice squad, so I was like, yo, just send me home. I'll figure it out. I'll try again. So my plan was to go back to college and wrestle already. But I sat around for maybe a month. Um, Baltimore Ravens called me and Baltimore was like, hey, you want to come to a tryout? I said, okay, um, you know, I never played football before. Just let you know, like, if it's a little shaky. I went out there and I dominated the tryout and I had like 10 minutes of work, but it was a great 10 minutes. And they're like, okay, we're gonna take your physicals. You're gonna be here and stay. The injury report comes back and injury report says they need a, um, what's it called? They needed DN and a linebacker.

• 15:54Speaker 01

  So you gotta compensate for the spot because you need someone to play next week. And I probably needed like six weeks on practice squad to play. And so I get sent home, they said, give me a week, we'll bring you back. A week comes, they don't bring me back. And so I'm like, okay, I see the writing on the wall, let me move on. I sit for a little bit, Indianapolis Colts call. They just got ran over by a team. They said, we need a run stopper. So I go out there, do the trial, I think it went well. They said, we're not taking anybody today. And then from there, I was like, uh, you know, maybe, maybe this is not it. And so I went back to wrestle.

• 16:26Joe Rogan?

  And did you ever think about MMA at that time? Was it in the back of your head?

• 16:31Speaker 01

  MMA was in the back of my head since the Olympics. But I wanted to make sure that if I was gonna go to MMA, that let me try things first before going all in on something that I need to go all in on. And I did my tryouts, I did my things, and now I want to go in all in on something that is finally here.

• 16:48Joe Rogan?

  And when your mom was scared of you doing wrestling, how did she feel about you doing MMA?

• 16:53Speaker 01

  Oh, you know, she's shitting off.

• 16:57Speaker 01

  Oh, my God, she can't even watch. She didn't even watch me wrestle. And so now I'm like, mom, I got a dude about to punch me in the face. Maybe if he can get to me. Um, are you sure you want to come and watch? And she's like, yeah, I'll come watch. And she comes, has a good time, has her drinks. And when I step out, I'm like, where were you? Oh, I was in the back. So you didn't even see me fight?

• 17:19Speaker 01

  So I'm like, why you even, why you even come then? So she, out of the three fights I've had, she's sat in the back and, and she'll be like, the John will go and get her and, and be like, Gable's done. And she'll be like, oh, what happened? And John will be like, good, it's all.

• 17:35Joe Rogan?

  So did she get nervous? Is that what it is?

• 17:37Speaker 01

  Oh, my God, she's sweating, she's nervous. But I'm just like, um, I, I kinda, I'll give her that look of like, if it's, if this is one of them ones, I'm gonna tell you. Um, but I haven't gave her those looks yet, so, so no.

• 17:49Joe Rogan?

  So, when you make this, so you decide, football's not gonna happen, WWE's not gonna happen, you, you did like, one televised match with WWE, right?

• 17:58Speaker 01

  I did, yes.

• 17:58Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, what was that like?

• 17:59Speaker 01

  Um, honestly, I had, I had a great, from, from me being real and, and honest, I had a great experience. I have no, no, nothing wrong with anybody there. Um, TKO was great, Triple H, Paul Levesque was great, Stephanie Vince, everybody was great. Um, I just had a competitive drive that I needed to get out. And so, you know, when you have, that gap is there, you can't do both.

• 18:18Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 18:19Speaker 01

  And I was trying to bridge both and I wasn't giving my 100% to the business. And if I'm not gonna give 100% to the business, then you might as well X me out. Because it's already over with, so, um, I just, that's how, that's practically how it happened.

• 18:32Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, no slight on pro wrestling, but it's just like, if you really wanna compete, compete.

• 18:37Speaker 01

  You gotta get it all out.

• 18:38Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 18:38Speaker 01

  And so, I, I would love to go back in the future. I would love to, to, to do a sport and go out there and dominate and then, hey.

• 18:44Joe Rogan?

  Maybe after the UFC heavyweight champ.

• 18:46Speaker 01

  For sure, maybe after a couple times. And so, I would love to go and if, if it meant well, then I would do it again, most definitely, because I have no hard feelings to them, um, and, and that's how it goes.

• 18:57Joe Rogan?

  So, when you make the decision that you're going to go into MMA, what is that like? Like, what, what are the steps that you take?

• 19:04Speaker 01

  I got done with NCAA's and I said, I, I flew down to Miami, um, I met with, um, John and, and a couple other people and I said, hey, I wanna fight. Um, you know, you know, John had me in his camp.

• 19:15Joe Rogan?

  So, we're talking about John Jones, and did you, did you know John before this?

• 19:19Speaker 01

  I knew John because, I knew John from Instagram. John liked wrestling, so I knew John from IG. He sent me a DM, he sent me his number, and if you know John, he don't answer the phone with anything, and it's crazy. But, um, he sent me his number, he said, call me. So I called him and this was before he got hurt for the first DP fight. He was like, I want you to come practice with us, you know, I want a wrestling partner. Um, I left him and played football. The next year comes, no, I'm sorry, um, I was, I don't even know where I was at at the time, but Skip. We go and he's like, I want you to come back for the second camp. He's going through it, me and John hit it off like that.

• 19:53Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 19:53Speaker 01

  We hit it off immediately.

• 19:54Joe Rogan?

  And so when you guys started training together in camp, is that when it really sunk in your head? When you're like, this is what I want to do?

• 20:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, he really, he really, I needed somebody to kind of engrave it in me. With wrestling, I had my father, I had the University of Minnesota, I had a lot of good people around me. Kind of like say, hey, this is how we're gonna do it. This is where you need to go and this is how you're gonna, this is how it's gonna happen. And when I saw John, I saw that drive of like, damn, you know, this guy's winning. And, and people get close, but they can't get past him. And why is that? So I really sat back and like watched his mental and like how he went about a lot of things. How he talked to people, how he greeted people, how he walked, how he punched, maybe how he looked when he was in the, in the pocket. When he needed to get out, when he rested his hands. And I saw everything and I was like, wow, like, man, this guy's a superstar, super superstar.

• 20:43Speaker 01

  And we all know that and, and, and, and people know that for a long time now, but I really saw him and I was like, damn, I want to be that. And that's what kind of, that's what flipped my switch right there.

• 20:53Joe Rogan?

  What an amazing opportunity, you know, you haven't done any MMA and you get to go in there and train with the GOAT.

• 20:59Speaker 01

  It's crazy. This one, man, you know, it's hard to explain. I tell people, people ask me all the time, like, what was it like seeing John for the first time? Cause I'm 25, so when John was like super peak, I was like 12, 13 years old. And I'm looking at this guy beat Gus of San, Reyes and Thiago Santos and stuff like that. So it's, um, different. You see a different side of people and, and when I saw John, I was like, wow. Like I've seen you for my whole life and I get to see you in person, like how cool is that?

• 21:29Joe Rogan?

  Okay, if your new year's resolution was change everything and be a new person, good luck. So instead of pretending you're going to meal prep kale forever or do morning cold plunges, here's one actually realistic thing, AG1.

• 21:43Joe Rogan?

  AG1 is a daily health drink that supports your energy, gut health, immune health, and helps fill common nutrient gaps. Just one scoop in cold water each morning and you're off. It's got over 75 vitamins, minerals, probiotics, and whole food ingredients in there. So instead of guessing whether you need a probiotic, or a prebiotic, or sorting through 10 different bottles of pills and powders, you can just do one scoop and get on with your day. It's great because it feels like the grown-up move, but for once, it's actually really easy. It takes like 30 seconds, and you'll notice the steadiness that sets you up for the day. Not wired, not crashing, just functional, human-being energy. I partnered

• 22:22Joe Rogan?

  with AG1 for years, and if you want to give it a try, head to drinkag1.com/joeroogan, and for a limited time, you'll get a free AG1 duffel bag and free AG1 welcome kit with your first AG1 subscription order. Only while supplies last. That's drinkag1.com/joeroogan, or visit the link in the description to get started. And for people that don't even know, the close fights that John had, they were really only close because John wasn't training. That's really all it is. 100%. John was partying, and he was what I would call playing with his food, you know? Like, he didn't, like, the Gustafson fight is a perfect example. Didn't train at all for the Gustafson fight.

• 23:06Joe Rogan?

  I mean, I talked to Greg Jackson, and he was like, "I swear to God, he barely showed up." I'm like, "That is so crazy." And then, he gutted it out in the last rounds. That's what's crazy. It's a close decision, but he wins the fight by gutting it out in the final rounds, when he's done relatively no strength and conditioning.

• 23:24Speaker 01

  Nothing.

• 23:25Joe Rogan?

  It's so crazy.

• 23:26Speaker 01

  It's fantastic to see.

• 23:27Joe Rogan?

  Then, really gets motivated for the second fight with Gustafson.

• 23:30Speaker 01

  And blows him out.

• 23:31Joe Rogan?

  And just smokes him.

• 23:32Speaker 01

  Blows him out.

• 23:33Joe Rogan?

  Which is what you expect. Which, when John is in prime form, he's the greatest of all time.

• 23:39Speaker 01

  Most definitely.

• 23:40Joe Rogan?

  And for you to be able to be a young guy who's thinking about MMA, and train with the greatest of all time, now, two-division world champion, it's crazy. Amazing opportunity.

• 23:53Speaker 01

  And it's amazing because you don't see the guy that's, you see the best of the best right away.

• 23:57Joe Rogan?

  Whoop, we're back. So anyway, where were we?

• 23:59Speaker 01

  John Jones.

• 24:01Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, so you're saying you... So you were, you're talking about like what it's like to first start training with him. So you were, you had no MMA training really before that at all? You had just been doing a little bit of striking with this guy?

• 24:15Speaker 01

  Joe, I kid you not, I didn't even know really how to defend punches.

• 24:21Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy.

• 24:22Speaker 01

  I didn't know how to defend punches and you, you probably saw the video of him throwing the knee at me.

• 24:25Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 24:26Speaker 01

  Because I'm so hard-headed, I'm like, let me shoot on John, but the whole time I forgot, he's a national championship wrestler.

• 24:31Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 24:31Speaker 01

  So, I didn't even know how to defend a punch, I didn't know how to defend a kick, I didn't know how to do anything. But I went in there and I said, hey, if you need somebody, it, it's gotta be me. And that's how hungry I was and I feel like that's how kids should be nowadays about getting that opportunity. Man, just be hungry, because someone's gonna respect you.

• 24:46Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, for sure, but I mean, not a whole lot of people get that opportunity, that's a crazy opportunity. It's also like, John is an elite wrestler as well, and so like, learning how to incorporate elite wrestling into all the other aspects of MMA, and to be able to go right into camp with John is just, this is amazing, incredible opportunity.

• 25:06Speaker 01

  Super incredible, I'm grateful for it every day, and especially he's still here in my corner to this day. We talked this morning, um, he's still giving me all the pointers, all the advice, even when we're not even fighting, um, just telling me how I should say things, what I should say, how I need to go about life, how I need to go about, um, business and, and meeting people and, and greeting people, so it's, it's a true opportunity.

• 25:26Joe Rogan?

  That's awesome, that's really awesome. So, when you were in camp with him, um, you're, you're going through the camp, were you planning on MMA then? Or like, how, how does it work? Like, what were you thinking, were you just like, the moment you started training with him, is that when it really started the fire in you?

• 25:42Speaker 01

  Yes, I had a little bit of burn for it, but, um...

• 25:45Joe Rogan?

  Like in the back of your mind?

• 25:46Speaker 01

  Yes, but a little burn, you gotta have the heart, you gotta have the heart. Um, so what, what, kind of what was the stamp on it was I went to, I went to Madison Square Garden with him, and, and John was just doing John things, you know, just being a superstar, everybody knew who he was, and I was like, man, you know, I got an Olympic gold medal, you know, like, maybe I should be getting some too, like, you know, like John showed me the way a little bit. So I'm trying to have him show me the way, and he's bringing me to every place, meeting every person, you know, showing me the opportunities that he has, and he looks at me and he was like, you can have this too. And that was kind of the cherry on the top, but... We can put another cherry on the top and do a double one when he won the fight. And then I'm holding the belt with him. And I see this guy face to face and you know, he's just the most popular man on earth for that day.

• 26:31Speaker 01

  And it's kind of like, wow, like you don't get, you don't really get to see the backstage moments. You get to see the guy go out there on TV and fight. But I got to see the backstage of everyone taking the pictures with him, the superstars. You know, I'm walking out the Knicks game and I see Queen Latifah and I'm like, damn. That's Queen Latifah. And I'm taking a selfie with Queen Latifah. I'm like, yo, can I take, can I send this to my mom? And she's like, yeah, go ahead. And I see Fat Joe talking to him and everybody. And I'm like, wow, like this is what it is to be like a real fighting star. Like, and, and fighting is one on one. And people want to watch someone fight. But I think in, in other sports, like we talked about earlier, there's a full team with helmets on, with jerseys on. But in fighting, people want to meet that badass dude. And they want to meet the champ. And that's what I want to be.

• 27:16Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. So what is, what is training with John like? Like, what is the training camp like? Like when, you know, you, you obviously haven't gone into training camp with any of the other elite fighters. But one of the more interesting things that separates John from everybody else is like, John doesn't take no short notice fights. John game plans for everybody. He studies tendencies. He's, his fight IQ, I mean, it's, it's obviously he has, obviously he has everything. He obviously has all the skills. Obviously has all the drive and everything else. But the fight IQ is the big one. That's the big one. Because if you don't have a good driver, who gives a fuck how fast your car is?

• 27:57Speaker 01

  True.

• 27:57Joe Rogan?

  It's really the mind behind it that puts it all together.

• 28:01Speaker 01

  He's, um, he's sitting in a Ferrari with Ferrari, um, gas. A lot of people sit in a Ferrari with 87 gas and the car don't work. Um, so when I, when I got to see those tendencies of him watching people, and he does it to me now where he'll send me videos on Instagram of, of the top UFC guys, be like, oh, watch how he steps. You know, watch when he throws a punch, how he comes back and he doesn't reset this certain way. And he's kind of already installing, installing those, um, tendencies than me. And so now, when I was wrestling, I never used to watch people wrestle. Like I, I went out there on a limb and I was just beating guys. Even in Olympics, I never watched anyone wrestle. I never watched their film.

• 28:35Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 28:36Speaker 01

  Never. I told coaches, don't show me one video because I don't want to focus on that one thing he did. And that was me being hard headed. Like if, if a guy had a great double leg. And I'm like, damn, how do I stop this double leg? And I'm worried about stopping a double leg instead of doing my offense. And so I never watch anybody. I went to the Olympics and I said, show me, show me the guys I'm wrestling and I said, let's do it.

• 29:00Joe Rogan?

  You know how many guys right now are just banging their head against the wall, listening to this going, what the fuck?

• 29:04Speaker 01

  Damn, he did that to me?

• 29:05Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy.

• 29:06Speaker 01

  I said, let's do it. I said, it's me or you, it's do or die. And this tournament, I'm not dying. Like you can't beat me in any way possible. And that's when I was at my best, when I had that mindset. And he's kind of putting that back into me and I feel really good about it.

• 29:18Joe Rogan?

  That's amazing. It's amazing. So when he's sending you videos, like, do you have like a, do you save all this shit? Do you have like a folder where you have all these different fighters and different moves? Cause you're, you're basically brand new at something. It's like this, let me just tell you what I said. You had a fight, an MMA fight where you hit that dude with a left hook and then took him down while he was out cold. I sent Dana White a text message. I said, everyone's fucked. I did.

• 29:44Speaker 01

  Well, I appreciate it. Thank you.

• 29:45Joe Rogan?

  Because I was like, that kind of speed is crazy. Like that kind of speed and incorporated with elite wrestling is crazy. I'm like, what do you, the, the heavyweight division is so shallow right now. You got Tom Aspinall, Cyril Gahn, John Jones, if he chooses to fight again. Francis, if some, by some miracle, they can work something out and bring him back to the UFC. Other than that, there's no one compelling for like a championship caliber fighter. It's, there's basically four or five guys on earth that are in this like championship caliber, like

• 30:22Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 30:22Joe Rogan?

  class. And you're already there, which is nuts. And you haven't even fought in the UFC yet. When I watched you move and I watched you fight, I was like, okay, how do you stop that? Like what, what, who is, who's got the skills to be able to stop that? And in my mind, there's like only a few guys where it's going to be a problem. It is like the Francis Nganous, the, the, you know, the Cyril Gans and the Tom Aspinalls. That's it. There's like a few guys and everybody else on the way up. But the only problem is going to be you getting fights.

• 30:55Joe Rogan?

  Like that, that kinda speed is just bananas for a 250-pound man. You know, and when you have that and you're 25-years-old, it's like, this is a, it is a very rare thing that you see in MMA. And it's kind of crazy because the heavyweight division is of course, the most prestigious division

• 31:14Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 31:14Joe Rogan?

  in the world. The heavyweight champion of the UFC is the baddest motherfucker on the planet. And, you know, right now, it's, it's kind of a toss-up, right? Because Cyril Gahn had this fight with Aspinall, John is kind of semi-retired, whatever he decides to do, it's, you know, it's kinda up in the air.

• 31:33Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 31:33Joe Rogan?

  He'll probably have one more fight, right?

• 31:35Speaker 01

  I, I want him to. I think he's got the juice in him.

• 31:38Joe Rogan?

  The White House?

• 31:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, he would love the White House.

• 31:40Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 31:41Speaker 01

  He's told me many times, he wants, he wants to be main event in the White House and he wants me to be a couple of slots behind him and, and kinda have us both win and that's, that's his last leg right there.

• 31:49Joe Rogan?

  Mmm.

• 31:49Speaker 01

  I would love, I would love for him to do one more. If, if he really wanted to in his heart, he should, but if he doesn't, John's not gonna do it.

• 31:56Joe Rogan?

  They should do Alex Pereira and him at the White House.

• 31:58Speaker 01

  I, I told people, I said Alex Pereira would be a great matchup for Tom.

• 32:01Joe Rogan?

  A, a heavyweight version of the BMF belt.

• 32:04Speaker 01

  It'll be perfect.

• 32:05Joe Rogan?

  You know what I'm saying?

• 32:05Speaker 01

  It'll be perfect. There's, there's nothing else to it besides two guys going out there. It's Alex Pereira, the baddest light, light heavyweight, and that's John Jones' baddest heavyweight right now.

• 32:13Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 32:13Speaker 01

  And regardless if someone else has the belt, John Jones is still the baddest heavyweight out there.

• 32:18Joe Rogan?

  It doesn't, the belt doesn't mean jack shit when it's John Jones.

• 32:20Speaker 01

  Mm-mm.

• 32:20Joe Rogan?

  Doesn't mean jack shit.

• 32:21Speaker 01

  It doesn't.

• 32:21Joe Rogan?

  It's, you know, there's, so many fighters could do that. They could just step away from the belts, abandon the belts, and then come back and all, it, it's really just about the fighter. Everybody knows who John is. Everybody knows what John does. It's like, people will pay to, you don't need a belt. A belt doesn't mean anything.

• 32:36Speaker 01

  Yo, this is a crazy story. I, I came, my, I had a French Bulldog that passed away. So I like to go out there and, uh, I adopt French Bulldogs, and I kinda give them a better home, and I either ship them to a new home or I keep them. And so at the time, I had a baby French Bulldog, he passed away, and I, I told John, I was like, yo, my dog died, I gotta go home. He let me go home. I came back, and I came back on a Tuesday, I didn't see John till Thursday. And mind you, this is a week before he's gonna go out there for Stipe. He's sick, like, super sick. And I watched this guy do five rounds on a Thursday, and they sent, they shark baited him, five new people, and he's dead tired. And this is when I knew he was unstoppable. He went out there, nobody could touch him. And I'm telling you, high-class PFL fighters, ex-UFC fighters, ex-Glori kickboxers were going in there after him,

• 33:20Speaker 01

  and he was just mopping them. And I was like, damn. This dude is beyond next level. And that was like, you know, you gotta see greatness. And I see it at the fight. But you also gotta see it when, how does this guy be great before the fight? And I saw that and I was like, god damn.

• 33:38Speaker 01

  I said, excuse me, John. You think I can go in there with you? And he was like, no. And I was like, why you think so? He was like, you don't know how to defend. And it was kind of a funny joke because a guy, a partner got hurt. And I was like, I raised my hand, I told Greg Jackson, I said, Greg, let me in there. And Greg was like, not today, Gable. And this is when I didn't know how to defend or anything, he was like, hey, not today. And I was like, man, why? You know, I can go in there and take him down. And he was like, this is different. And when I saw that, that was like the epitome of like, super greatness in my eyes. Because I like hard workers, I like guys that beat on guys. I don't like guys that go out there and, and, and do the little extras that they, to look cool. I mean, just go out there and dominate and let's go home. And I saw that and I was like, yeah, it's over with for Stipe. It's gonna be a long night.

• 34:23Joe Rogan?

  Well, unfortunately, they met when Stipe had already had a lot of miles on the clock.

• 34:28Speaker 01

  A lot, a lot of miles.

• 34:29Joe Rogan?

  And John was still elite. It's crazy that John essentially developed a spinning back kick, a real spinning back kick when he's 36 years old.

• 34:35Speaker 01

  Crazy.

• 34:36Joe Rogan?

  It's so nuts, because I mean, he tried it earlier in his career. But it was like, he would spin instead of go straight, you know what I mean? But when he hit Stipe, it was perfect. It was per, you, that picture, we, we, we showed a, a video of it and then Freeze froze the, the, the heel. It was halfway into his rib cage. It was crazy.

• 34:56Speaker 01

  I wouldn't have got up either.

• 34:58Joe Rogan?

  Well, very few people would. Very few human beings can top, that kick is so powerful. And when it comes from a big guy like John with those long ass legs and all that leverage with perfect technique. And it goes right into the sweet spot like that, like, good luck. But it's such a brilliant think, it's such brilliant thinking on his side. Cause he's like, okay, I have to fight heavyweights and I need something that can take them out with one shot. Like, what is that? Well, it's the most powerful kick, which is the spinning back kick. And so, he trains it constantly.

• 35:28Speaker 01

  Constantly.

• 35:29Joe Rogan?

  You know, which is just, very few people have the mindset to be able to do, very few guys develop new skills late in life. You know, late in their career, they start incorporating new skills like that.

• 35:43Speaker 01

  I think that's a, that's a thing where he was, he's always all ears too. And that's kind of what he's putting into me also. I watched him do the spinning back kick the night before at midnight when we were practicing in the hotel lobby.

• 35:53Joe Rogan?

  So he was just planning on that?

• 35:54Speaker 01

  He was planning on it.

• 35:55Joe Rogan?

  Being the showstopper.

• 35:57Speaker 01

  He told me he wanted to take Stipe down. And then all of a sudden, he does a spinning back kick. And I was like, you slob motherfucker.

• 36:06Joe Rogan?

  Did he bring in a Taekwondo coach? Where did, how did he develop that technique so quickly?

• 36:10Speaker 01

  He's got a, there's a, there's a kickboxing Taekwondo coach named Alex. He's got a long, he's got a long last name. Cause I think he, he married a Thai lady. So I think he changed his last name.

• 36:19Joe Rogan?

  Oh, okay.

• 36:20Speaker 01

  But he's from New Mexico. He works out at Jackson. He's got a lot of tattoos on him. And nobody, if you saw him, you would never know. But the dude can kick hard as shit. And it's crazy.

• 36:30Joe Rogan?

  And so he, he worked with John on that?

• 36:31Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 36:32Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. The only other guy that I would say developed a crazy new technique late in his career was Vitor. When Vitor was like 35 or 36, he developed a wheel kick. It was crazy out of nowhere. When he fought Luke Rockhold. All of a sudden, he's throwing wheel kicks. Like Vitor never.

• 36:49Speaker 01

  Wheel kicks is crazy.

• 36:49Joe Rogan?

  Crazy. Vitor never threw wheel kicks.

• 36:52Speaker 01

  Crazy. But I think it's honestly gotta be cool from, cause you sit right next to the cage. So it's gotta be cool to like see people grow up through their career. And then all of a sudden at the end, you see like a guy does a spinning wheel kick or a guy does a spinning, spinning back kick. And you're like, damn, like where'd that come from? And I feel like, I feel like, does it give you a high to kind of see like a person grow through a new stage of like seeing a new move from them?

• 37:14Joe Rogan?

  I just love excellence. That's what I love. I love when someone shines. When they just figure a way to eclipse everyone else. When they figure a way to, when they just like the Piyor Yand, Marab, Dvavish, Willie fight. When you see a guy like Piyor Yand who loses the first fight to Marab and comes back and dominates in the second fight. Like I love that shit. I love it. I love watching someone put in an insane amount of work and dedication and then shining on fight night. I love. After a year away, Canelo Alvarez is back in the ring October 31st, facing undefeated Christian Mobily live on The Zone and DraftKings Sportsbook

• 37:57Joe Rogan?

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• 38:50Joe Rogan?

  This episode is brought to you by the Apple Sports app. Guys, this is the ultimate best time of the year to be a sports fan. Football, baseball, basketball, hockey, soccer. The calendar is stacked, but it can also be hard to keep track of it all. And that is where the Apple Sports app comes into play. It is the fastest and easiest way to stay on top of all the action with scores and play-by-play automatically showing up on your iPhone when the teams you follow are playing. That means you don't have to figure out when the games are on and how your team is doing, which is especially nice when you're following a bunch of teams and your friends are constantly blowing up the group chat.

• 39:32Joe Rogan?

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• 39:47Speaker 01

  It's cool too because you see Peter Yan is the new blueprint for guys that are coaching kids to do moves. I mean, he went out there and threw a fake hook and liver kicked Morab. And then he goes out there and hits a Soto Gari and trips guys. I mean, What other, what other film tape blueprint can you use from someone else? I mean, he's done everything in all of his fights. His flow state is amazing.

• 40:11Joe Rogan?

  His flow state's incredible and he's so good at mixing up trips along with like inside fighting. His stand-up is so good. He's so hard to hit clean, too. I think the only guy who really hit him clean was Sugar Sean. Sean hit him with a knee, like a really good knee, timed it perfectly in their fight and dropped him. But other than that, he very rarely gets hit. And when you do hit him, you're, you're, you're hitting him and he's kind of rolling with it. You know, he keeps that super high guard.

• 40:41Speaker 01

  He does the high, yeah.

• 40:42Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, he keeps his hands straight in front of you. He's, he's something special, man. And, you know, that dude's still only 32 years old.

• 40:49Speaker 01

  He's only 32?

• 40:50Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 40:51Speaker 01

  Ooh.

• 40:52Joe Rogan?

  I know. It's crazy.

• 40:53Speaker 01

  What do you think if, if he doesn't lose?

• 40:55Joe Rogan?

  32 or 34. How old is Pyo Reon? He's either 32 or 34. But, you know, we've seen him and I think he's 32.

• 41:03Speaker 01

  32?

• 41:03Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. I mean, we've seen him in the UFC since he was like in his mid twenties. Yeah.

• 41:08Speaker 01

  If, if he doesn't lose to Marab that first time, where do you think his path goes?

• 41:13Joe Rogan?

  It's a good question, you know? I mean, because he did lose to other guys as well. He lost to Sean and he lost to, the Al Jermain fight was fucked. The first fight was fucked, but the second fight, Al Jermain dominated him. But I think he probably overestimated himself in the second Al Jermain fight. It doesn't seem like he was just prepared. And the thing about Al Jermain is like his wrestling is very good and his back control is the fucking best in the business. When Al Jermain gets your back, you're in deep shit. He's so good at back control. He's so good at rear naked chokes. And, you know, Al, but just, Al Jermain just really struggled to make that 135.

• 41:50Speaker 01

  It's gotta be hard.

• 41:51Joe Rogan?

  Oh. But if he got it right, and he got it right in that second fight, you know, and he just, he just did what he does at, at his best. It was one of his finest performances. So he lost that fight, but it didn't mean that he was done. It just mean like he realized like, okay, he had to have a camp like he had for Marab in order to beat Al Jermain.

• 42:10Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 42:11Joe Rogan?

  You know, and I just don't think everybody's willing to go through that kind of camp every. Every fight.

• 42:16Speaker 01

  Marab went through four?

• 42:18Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, four in a year, yeah.

• 42:19Speaker 01

  Do you, um, for Blueprint, how do you like that? Because I know guys kind of take the two fighter, the two fighter year approach, maybe three if you're doing well.

• 42:27Joe Rogan?

  I think that's more, more sustainable. Alex Pereira did the same thing, like he's, he's fought a lot of fights and he's fought, fought fights short notice. You gotta admire that mindset of a guy who's like, I don't give a fuck, let's fight, you know, and, but Alex has fought with broken toes.

• 42:43Speaker 01

  He's done everything.

• 42:44Joe Rogan?

  He fought with a norovirus and, you know, he had a fucked up hand the first time he fought Ankaliyev. But then, you know, the same thing, like he comes in for the second fight with Ankaliyev fully healthy and just smokes him. Smokes him in the first round.

• 42:56Speaker 01

  If you, if you, um, what do you think about if you gave Alex Pereira like a, a solid, great wrestler, like an Islam of light heavyweight, heavyweight, how do you think that he does?

• 43:04Joe Rogan?

  It'll be a problem. Yeah, I mean, I think less of a problem certainly now than early in his career. Like if you see his first fight with, uh, in the UFC with Micalitis, he gets taken down the first round. Uh, that's not gonna happen now, and if it does, he gets up, you know, it's different. But it gets up against who? Does he get up against a guy like you? You know, it's a different, there's different levels, right? You really saw that with Jack Delamadalena in Islam, right? There's levels. And when you got a guy that's at Islam's level, that's just a super elite grappler, unless you've faced that before, you don't know what to prepare yourself for.

• 43:42Speaker 01

  I tell people all the time.

• 43:43Joe Rogan?

  That's the thing with Piori Yan, he had been in there with Marab for the first fight. And so he knew what to expect. And he's, he'd seen all those crazy fights. He saw the fight with Sanhagen, he saw the fight where, this was the rematch with Sugar Sean where he submitted him, he's like, okay, this guy's a fucking monster. He's a monster now, you gotta prepare for a monster. And he was ready. But unless you've experienced that before, and there's really no one like that in the light heavyweight division, unfortunately. There's not some like super elite grappler in the light heavyweight division. And I think that's one of the reasons why Hamzat is thinking about going up to light heavyweight.

• 44:18Speaker 01

  And I think he should. I'm a big fan of Hamzat. I love his style, I love his intensity. His intensity is the best thing ever.

• 44:23Joe Rogan?

  Oh, he's an animal.

• 44:23Speaker 01

  It's the best thing ever to watch. Because I, when I was wrestling, I liked to go out there and just, you know, put the hammer down to dominate. Um, and he's got it. He's got that touch.

• 44:32Joe Rogan?

  Oh yeah, he's an animal. And- You know, that that animal part of him almost killed him. Because he refused to stop training when he have covid. When he had covid, he was just showing up at the gym and putting in two and a half hour sessions and vomiting blood. Like, it's a nut.

• 44:47Speaker 01

  That's crazy.

• 44:48Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, they said the real problem with Hamzat was that you you couldn't get him out of the gym. And he was always overtrained. So then he brings in Sam Calavita. And Sam Calavita.

• 44:58Speaker 01

  From Training Lab, right?

• 44:59Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 45:00Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 45:00Joe Rogan?

  So he's monitoring his heart rate, he's monitoring his recovery. And he's working on him with his strength and conditioning and they're doing it scientifically. And then you see in the Drakus-Duplessi fight, I mean, he's just didn't gas at all.

• 45:11Speaker 01

  That was the same thing as Islam and Madalena.

• 45:14Joe Rogan?

  Very similar.

• 45:14Speaker 01

  They they tried to do the, you know, maybe what if, what if he can outbox him? But it's it's hard when you gotta worry about so many things. And I think Islam did a great job of showing the leg kicks, making Jack switch.

• 45:25Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 45:25Speaker 01

  Jack didn't really push forward and Islam, when he did, shot the double or he shot an outside single. And that's hard. It's hard when you gotta think about so many things.

• 45:33Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Well, you know, Khabib is without doubt one of the all time greats, one of the greatest to ever do it. But the difference between Khabib and Islam is Islam is elite stand up wise. Like, Khabib was very good stand up, but Islam knocked out Volkanovski with a head kick, you know? That's not in.

• 45:51Speaker 01

  It's crazy.

• 45:51Joe Rogan?

  Khabib's repertoire. Islam is on another level. It's like one more level above. He can knock you out standing, he can knock you out on the ground, he could submit you, he could take you down. He's fucking huge for the weight class, especially at 155. It's like, there's so many aspects. And you're always thinking about that grappling when you're striking. So when you say like, oh, you know, who's better striker Islam or Jack Dela Madalena? Well, it depends. Because if you gotta worry about that takedown, your striking is not gonna be the same. It's just not gonna be the same. Because you're, everything he does.

• 46:23Speaker 01

  There's a twitch.

• 46:23Joe Rogan?

  You're always looking for that takedown. And that factor, it leads to guys getting hit all the time.

• 46:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:30Joe Rogan?

  Like, if you go back and watch old fights like Kevin Randleman versus Krokop. Kevin Randleman knocked out Krokop because Krokop was worried about the takedown. He was worried about the takedown, all of a sudden Randleman comes with a big left hook.

• 46:40Speaker 01

  And Kevin Randleman was a NCAA champ where?

• 46:44Joe Rogan?

  Ohio State, I believe. Was it Ohio State? I believe he was a Ohio guy.

• 46:48Speaker 01

  184 or 197? Or was he heavyweight?

• 46:51Joe Rogan?

  I don't know.

• 46:54Speaker 04

  Three time Big Ten Wrestling Champ at Ohio State.

• 46:57Speaker 01

  What, uh? He never won the tournament?

• 47:00Speaker 04

  Heavyweight.

• 47:05Speaker 01

  Wow, who'd he lose to in the tournament?

• 47:06Speaker 04

  Oh, it says heavyweight.

• 47:09Speaker 04

  I'll look that up real quick.

• 47:09Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm, okay. But, but that was the thing about Randomman is like the speed and the takedown was always this big threat. And so because of that, you're thinking about one thing and boom, you get hit with a big shot.

• 47:20Speaker 01

  I seen Kevin Randomman wear shoes in his matches. What's, what's the difference? Um, what's the difference of wearing, I seen a guy wear shoes now. It was on Instagram and I saw maybe a kickboxing match. Um, or something like that. Why can't they wear shoes now? Is there a rule that you can't?

• 47:33Joe Rogan?

  It's not now. All those things are old.

• 47:35Speaker 01

  Those are old?

• 47:35Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, those are all old. Pride used to allow you to wear shoes.

• 47:38Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 47:39Joe Rogan?

  Uh, early UFC used to be able to wear shoes.

• 47:41Speaker 01

  I saw that. I remember the first, the first like UFC video I seen was that big Hughes dude and that little dude that knocked him out. Was he the big black dude?

• 47:48Joe Rogan?

  Which guy?

• 47:49Speaker 01

  It was like an old video. Super old.

• 47:52Joe Rogan?

  That's not descriptive enough.

• 47:54Speaker 01

  Okay, I'm sorry. Give me a second.

• 47:56Joe Rogan?

  Big Hughes dude, little black dude.

• 47:57Speaker 04

  Bob's hat, maybe?

• 47:59Joe Rogan?

  No, that wasn't UFC.

• 48:00Speaker 01

  Who was the big video? And then the white dude came out there and he was just whooping him and the big dude tried to grab him. I might be tripping, but I saw the video.

• 48:07Joe Rogan?

  Mm, well, I don't think you're tripping. I mean, there's been so many fights, it's so hard to like figure out what fight you're talking about. But there's, there's an advantage to wrestling shoes for sure, without a doubt. I mean, the grip on the ground. I mean, how many times have you seen guys?

• 48:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, this one.

• 48:22Joe Rogan?

  Oh, Keith Hackney. Yeah. And Keith Hackney had like a very strange style. It was like, uh, I think he was a Kenbo guy. And he, he hit him with like a bitch slap. You know what I'm saying? Like, you ever see how he, he knocked him down? Like, look at the difference in the size. Emmanuel Yarborough, who is a sumo wrestler.

• 48:40Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 48:41Joe Rogan?

  But Emmanuel was probably like, look at that. See? He overhand bitch slapped him. This is crazy. He basically stepped in and, and palm-stripped him to the head.

• 48:51Speaker 01

  You think he looks, if he's, if he's still alive, you think he looks back at this video and be like, damn, I got slapped?

• 48:56Joe Rogan?

  Uh, probably.

• 48:57Speaker 01

  Damn.

• 48:58Joe Rogan?

  I mean, Emmanuel fought a bunch of different things. He fought, I, I think he fought, uh, in Pride as well, if I'm...

• 49:07Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 49:08Joe Rogan?

  Oh, they forgot to lock the cage. You get flew out the cage. Look, thin, big John McCarthy.

• 49:13Speaker 04

  He lost to Mark Ryland.

• 49:14Speaker 01

  Mark Ryland, a Bible.

• 49:15Joe Rogan?

  Okay, there you go.

• 49:18Joe Rogan?

  That's random what we're talking about.

• 49:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:19Joe Rogan?

  Um, yeah, the old days were wild, man. It's wild. It's it's wild to go back and watch those fights. It's like.

• 49:27Speaker 01

  Since you, um, since you've been kinda like, um, like a huge figure your whole life, have you gone back and like watched Fear Factor?

• 49:34Joe Rogan?

  Uh, I watched it because my kids were watching it. My kids were watching Fear Factor because there was like a whole Fear Factor channel. Was it True TV or one of those?

• 49:43Speaker 01

  True TV, or Spike TV, baby.

• 49:44Joe Rogan?

  One of those things. They had Fear Factor on like all day long and my kids were watching. They thought it was hilarious.

• 49:49Speaker 01

  Man, I was watching it too. I'm just gonna tell you right now. And all the shit they was doing, hell nah.

• 49:55Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, a lot of it is in your head. Like, a lot of the stuff that they had to eat, it's not that bad. Some of it was fucking disgusting.

• 50:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, was you, were you trying some while they were trying?

• 50:04Joe Rogan?

  I ate, I ate a bunch of things.

• 50:05Speaker 01

  What was the worst thing?

• 50:08Joe Rogan?

  None of the things I ate were that bad. You know, like I ate a Madagascar hissing cockroach. It's like a, a cockroach the size of like this lighter.

• 50:16Speaker 01

  Damn.

• 50:17Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 50:18Speaker 01

  That wasn't bad? What, it was just crunchy, huh?

• 50:20Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, this didn't have much flavor to it.

• 50:22Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 50:23Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 50:23Speaker 01

  What was the?

• 50:23Joe Rogan?

  More in your head than anything.

• 50:25Speaker 01

  I'm, I'm sure. What was, being, being on that show, what was the worst thing you saw, like someone tense up about?

• 50:32Joe Rogan?

  The worst thing was what they had to eat, you know, and watching people throw up. Like people, I, I watched people throw up every day. You know how like the smell of throw up makes you wanna throw up?

• 50:42Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 50:42Joe Rogan?

  That went away after a while.

• 50:44Speaker 01

  It was that bad?

• 50:45Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I, I saw people throw up every week. Every week I was watching four or five people throw up. This is like totally normal to be around.

• 50:52Speaker 01

  It was like a candle for you.

• 50:53Joe Rogan?

  Cause they were throwing up in front of me and I was telling them that they can keep going. I'm like, don't worry, you can keep going. You keep going. Don't put that out of your head. This is a task. Just you you wanna win, okay, you can do this. I can help you, I'll go talk you through this, but you just gotta just, you you are in control of your body. Force yourself to eat it, chew it, swallow it, get it down, let's go. But that was the worst, is the eating shit. Holding your breath underwater was hard, there's a lot of things they had to do that was hard. It's a crazy fucking show.

• 51:23Speaker 01

  They um, there was one where they had to jump out of helicopter and like swim and grab some while the helicopter propellers were like blowing the water so they couldn't.

• 51:31Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, we did a few of the things like that, yeah.

• 51:33Speaker 01

  Were you ever scared? For some of them?

• 51:36Joe Rogan?

  I was worried when they had to ride bulls, that one scared the shit out of me. Cause I was like, you know, the the stunt stuntmen are animals. If you ever meet stuntmen, they are some of the the bravest, toughest dudes alive. And the stunt guys had this attitude about the bull, like eh, they're like, oh, that's a stunt bull. That's a practice bull. And I go, does a fucking bull know he's a practice bull? I bet he doesn't, I bet he didn't get that memo.

• 52:01Speaker 01

  He don't know that.

• 52:02Joe Rogan?

  He's just a bull. That's a fucking huge animal and you're gonna get a hundred pound lady to ride this huge animal, that's crazy.

• 52:08Speaker 01

  It's over with.

• 52:09Joe Rogan?

  And they got launched and almost got kicked and we, they rolled the dice a lot and got lucky that no one got seriously injured. I think, and the bull one was the big one for me, I was like, you can't predict that. Like you can, if you got a car stunt, you gotta jump a car off a building into like this big cushion, like, okay.

• 52:27Speaker 01

  Cool.

• 52:28Joe Rogan?

  You kind of know what's gonna happen, you you know, this is the thing, this could go wrong and this is how we're gonna prepare against it going wrong or prepare for it. But you can't prepare for a bull, like there's not much you could do. If the bull decides to stomp this person, that person could die. Like that, that's a real possibility, especially people that have no business riding bulls.

• 52:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:49Joe Rogan?

  Bull riding is hard for bull riders.

• 52:51Speaker 01

  Bull riding is tough. And they got a good seven seconds on that bull if they're great.

• 52:55Joe Rogan?

  If they're great.

• 52:55Speaker 01

  If they're great.

• 52:56Joe Rogan?

  And when you're watching it, you're like, oh my god, and you watch the bull kicking and jumping up in the air.

• 53:01Speaker 01

  Crazy, I know their lower back kills after that.

• 53:03Joe Rogan?

  Oh, the, we had one guy on Fear Factor who was a professional bull rider and his shoulder was so destroyed. He uh, he took his shirt off to show me, he had scars all around his shoulders, like, my shoulder pops out all the time. It just would pop out a socket. He'd go reach for something, his shoulder would pop out a socket, it was just destroyed, it was hanging on by a thread.

• 53:23Speaker 01

  Geez, that's disgusting. How do you live like that, though?

• 53:26Joe Rogan?

  I don't know, man. I guess you just deal with it. I guess you just, that's the price you pay for greatness, you know?

• 53:32Speaker 01

  Gotta pay something.

• 53:33Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, well, they all pay. Every bull rider pays. You see those guys later in their career, they're all stiff because they got fused discs and

• 53:39Speaker 01

  Messed up.

• 53:40Joe Rogan?

  Bolts in their back and shit. They're all fucked up.

• 53:42Speaker 01

  Spines rubbing.

• 53:43Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah, it's a terrible.

• 53:44Speaker 01

  It's messed up.

• 53:45Joe Rogan?

  Terrible way to live.

• 53:46Speaker 01

  I can't, I can't believe that, um, bull riding's a real thing.

• 53:50Joe Rogan?

  I know, it's nuts.

• 53:51Speaker 01

  It's fascinating, though, because you could really see guys go out there and be like, you're facing the devil.

• 53:56Joe Rogan?

  Literally.

• 53:56Speaker 01

  The bull is gonna win all the time.

• 53:58Joe Rogan?

  Every time.

• 53:58Speaker 01

  Even if you get past.

• 54:00Joe Rogan?

  Is hang on for seven seconds. There's no goat who could just hang on the

• 54:02Speaker 01

  No.

• 54:03Joe Rogan?

  Bull as long as possible. I'll hang on that bull for thirty minutes.

• 54:06Speaker 01

  He gonna get you off.

• 54:07Joe Rogan?

  He's gonna get you off.

• 54:08Speaker 01

  Gonna get you off.

• 54:08Joe Rogan?

  Everybody goes flying eventually. Everybody.

• 54:11Speaker 01

  Everybody. It's, it's gonna happen one way or another.

• 54:13Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, there's no human being that could just stay on a bucking bull.

• 54:17Speaker 01

  No.

• 54:17Joe Rogan?

  And just like, when I decide, I'll get off.

• 54:19Speaker 01

  Have you rode?

• 54:20Joe Rogan?

  No!

• 54:21Speaker 01

  Okay, I haven't either.

• 54:22Joe Rogan?

  Fuck that.

• 54:22Speaker 01

  I don't think black people do that.

• 54:25Joe Rogan?

  I think there are.

• 54:27Speaker 01

  Is there a couple?

• 54:27Joe Rogan?

  Gotta be.

• 54:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, there is.

• 54:29Joe Rogan?

  Gotta be.

• 54:31Joe Rogan?

  Oh, look at that dude, right there. Bam. Ezekiel Mitchell. Look at the size of that thing. I mean.

• 54:37Speaker 01

  And look at his angle, you know what I'm saying?

• 54:39Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 54:39Speaker 01

  He is so, the, the bull is so athletic that he's damn near doing a handspring.

• 54:43Joe Rogan?

  Exactly.

• 54:44Speaker 01

  With the dude on his back.

• 54:46Joe Rogan?

  Right, and he weighs two thousand pounds. He's just throwing his body up and through the air. That is, fuck all that. Like, right there. Like, you easily could get stomped to death right there.

• 54:57Speaker 01

  It's game over.

• 54:58Joe Rogan?

  You fall wrong, he lands on your face, and that is a rap. Your fucking head is pulverized.

• 55:03Speaker 01

  I wonder what the

• 55:04Joe Rogan?

  Size of that thing. God.

• 55:06Speaker 01

  I wonder what the numbers are on like, if a bull stomps, like, the velocity and the mass of it, like, what is the, the, the generator force from it?

• 55:14Joe Rogan?

  Oh, it's gotta be insane. How many guys have died?

• 55:18Speaker 01

  None that I know, hopefully.

• 55:20Joe Rogan?

  None that I know, but I mean, there has to be like a enormous number of guys that have died bull riding.

• 55:25Speaker 01

  What's the, what's like the, um, since, since like run a crazy topic, what is, what is like the craziest thing? Outside of like me fighting taekwondo that you've done that you're like, damn, like that shit felt good.

• 55:35Joe Rogan?

  I never did anything other than I had three kickboxing fights, but other than fighting, that was the, the scariest shit that I ever did. Yeah, I mean, I've never done it. I'm not like a, I don't parachute.

• 55:47Speaker 01

  No.

• 55:47Joe Rogan?

  Okay. I'm not a bungee jumper. I mean, I've done bungee jumping on vacation. I did ziplining. I was like, what am I doing? This is stupid. I don't like doing stuff like that. I don't like dumb risks.

• 55:58Speaker 01

  No, I'm big, so I went on a ziplining one time. You know, you gotta jump off the thing.

• 56:02Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 56:03Speaker 01

  You gotta jump off the platform.

• 56:04Joe Rogan?

  Uh huh.

• 56:05Speaker 01

  I thought I was gonna, Joe, I'm kidding you now, that might have been my last day on earth if that, that line didn't hold me.

• 56:09Joe Rogan?

  Right, because what do you weigh, about two fifty?

• 56:11Speaker 01

  Like two fifty five and it bounces, you know, like, ooh.

• 56:14Joe Rogan?

  I was in Thailand and I went to do this thing. It was a bungee core thing and they said I couldn't do it because I was only two hundred pounds. And I was like, that's crazy. Like, what happens if you get a guy that lies about his weight?

• 56:25Speaker 01

  It's over with.

• 56:26Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, because people lie about their fucking weight all the time.

• 56:28Speaker 01

  I seen the ones where the guys, they got the, the squirrel suit on.

• 56:32Joe Rogan?

  Oh, God.

• 56:32Speaker 01

  They jump off the building or they jump off the rocks and they, they go down and they come up.

• 56:36Joe Rogan?

  Uh huh, and sometimes they don't.

• 56:38Speaker 01

  Sometimes they don't come up.

• 56:39Joe Rogan?

  My friend Andy did that, jumping out of a fucking plane.

• 56:42Speaker 01

  He made it?

• 56:43Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 56:43Speaker 01

  Okay, good.

• 56:44Joe Rogan?

  He was, he held the world record at one point in time for the longest squirrel suit flight. What are they called? What do they call those things? Wing suit? Wing suit?

• 56:52Speaker 01

  Wing suit?

• 56:53Joe Rogan?

  He, he held the record for it. It's ridiculous. But Andy's nuts. He's a Navy SEAL. Eighteen miles.

• 56:59Speaker 01

  Eighteen miles?

• 57:01Joe Rogan?

  One flight.

• 57:02Speaker 01

  What do you think he's thinking at like mile nine? Maybe I drop?

• 57:05Joe Rogan?

  He's a psycho. I don't know.

• 57:07Speaker 01

  Eighteen miles is crazy.

• 57:09Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's crazy.

• 57:10Speaker 01

  I would never do nothing like that, ever.

• 57:12Joe Rogan?

  Uh uh, no, I'm not interested in parachuting. I'm not interested in any of that shit.

• 57:15Speaker 01

  I might get on a wake boat and surf. That's about all.

• 57:18Joe Rogan?

  You fall in the water. Not that big a deal.

• 57:19Speaker 01

  With a life jacket.

• 57:20Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah. That sounds reasonable. It's a reasonable thrill.

• 57:24Speaker 01

  Falling out, hey, falling out the sky is crazy.

• 57:28Joe Rogan?

  Falling out the sky is crazy, but at least falling out the sky, you have equipment, you check the equipment, you make sure you double check it. You've done it before. It's done. You know when to do it. With a bull, there's no, there's no safeguards. You know, I mean, you have like some sort of a chest protector on some people. You have a helmet. You're not, there's no safeguards. He could land on your hip, you're never gonna walk again.

• 57:50Speaker 01

  It's over with.

• 57:51Joe Rogan?

  Fuck that.

• 57:52Speaker 01

  His game over. I couldn't, I can't fathom riding a bull.

• 57:55Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Doesn't Donald do it? Doesn't Donald Seroni? He, he rides bulls.

• 57:59Speaker 01

  See, he got the name Cowboy, he better do something.

• 58:00Joe Rogan?

  He's out of his fucking mind.

• 58:01Speaker 01

  He gotta do something with the name Cowboy.

• 58:03Joe Rogan?

  That's a dude that has a real adrenaline problem. He's got a, he's a real-

• 58:06Speaker 01

  Rightfully so. He, he looks crazy.

• 58:10Joe Rogan?

  He's got a real adrenaline problem. He told the story about getting trapped in a, a water, he was diving and he got trapped in a cave. And the, the guy he was with panicked because his cords got tangled up and the, the water was cloudy and he couldn't figure out how to get out. That was one of the most terr- I knew he was okay because he was right here telling me the story, but it was one of the most terrifying stories anybody's ever told me. But that dude loves that kinda shit. He loves like thrills.

• 58:35Speaker 01

  I can't. I don't think I can get behind thrills. I can't.

• 58:38Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 58:39Speaker 01

  It's, it's too much. And especially your heart be like.

• 58:41Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm. It's just not worth it.

• 58:45Speaker 01

  Is today my day? And it can't be my day.

• 58:47Joe Rogan?

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• 59:25Joe Rogan?

  You can also purchase a variety of limited styles exclusively on their website. Go to athleticbrewing.com/rogan to find stores near you or get brews shipped right to your door. Use code ROGEN to get 15% off your first online order. Near beer, terms and conditions and certain limitations apply. Athletic Brewing Company, fit for all times. Was fighting for the first time, was that, what was the difference in the, the difference in the way it felt the first time you fought versus wrestling?

• 59:59Speaker 01

  My, when I, when I wrestle, I'm not really nervous. I'm more anxious to like perform and put on a good show. When, when I went out there for my first fight, my heart was beating on my chest. Because that pin drops and it's like it's me or you. And I always had the mentality of like, it's me or you, it's do or die. Today's not my day, you gotta go. But that first time, you're like, I kid you not, my heart was like jumping. And, and John had to like, look at me in the eyes and be like, oh, you're good. Rely on what you know. We've been here before, you've done this before. Um, there's 2,000 people here, you've, you've wrestled in front of 20. Um, just think about it like that. And when I thought about it like that, my heart rate calmed down, you know? You kind of get like shaky a little bit, you're, you kind of feel like your legs are not there. And that was kind of my first time fighting. After that, at Dirty Boxing, I wanted to kill that dude.

• 1:00:46Joe Rogan?

  And which is really crazy because you couldn't even rely really on your wrestling in that.

• 1:00:50Speaker 01

  Which is what I wanted.

• 1:00:51Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:00:51Speaker 01

  I wanted to, I wanted to go out there and show you that, that I can throw punches without having to look down at that leg. And that's exactly what we did.

• 1:00:59Joe Rogan?

  Was that a calculated decision to try to do that as well as just like to just have a pure striking fight?

• 1:01:05Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:01:05Joe Rogan?

  Just, just so you could show that you could do it and then in your own mind, not have your, your main skill set to rely on?

• 1:01:13Speaker 01

  Yes, I really wanted to handicap myself because I wanted to show the people to, and I, and I kind of, hopefully I did show them a great show.

• 1:01:19Joe Rogan?

  Well, you definitely did.

• 1:01:20Speaker 01

  I want to show the people, I want to show the, the people at home that are, are casual viewer that who doesn't know Gable. Like, hey, can I turn on Dirty Boxing and the mom and dad and kids are sitting there watching saying, hey, what is about Gable Seifson that's special? And he's a wrestler, so what can be special besides wrestling? And then I go out there and I get this knockout and I jump over the ring and, and I'm,

• 1:01:41Joe Rogan?

  That was crazy.

• 1:01:41Speaker 01

  And I'm doing the Arthur Jones, um, sack dance.

• 1:01:44Joe Rogan?

  The, the crazy thing was the way you leapt over the ring like it was nothing. That was banana. What does it feel like to not have, oh, there it is, boom. But this is the, the nuttiest part right here.

• 1:01:58Speaker 01

  The big jump.

• 1:02:01Joe Rogan?

  Like it was nothing. Like it was nothing. I mean, that is, that is crazy athleticism. But it's, it's, what's wild about that is you look like a, like a really good boxer. And you have only been boxing for a very small amount of time.

• 1:02:16Speaker 01

  Just, I always had very good confidence in myself. I've always spoke about myself highly. I've always like wanted to be over the top, you know, like, like a WWE. You know, when he gets on the microphone, it's John Cena's like, you can't see me. Or Roman Reigns is like, acknowledge me. You know, when I go out there, I don't want to have to say those things. I wanted to, when you see me, that's him. And, and I've always tried to be the, the bigger than Gable person. But also like if we had like a routine convo, you can see like, man, he's a real human. You know, you can talk to him, he does real things. We put on the, we put on shoes the same way, we put on pants the same way. And I feel like a lot of superstars don't really show people that side of them. And it's up to them if they want to or they not. But I've always really liked showing the families and the kids that like, man, look at Gable.

• 1:03:00Joe Rogan?

  He is a normal human being, but when you compete, you're special.

• 1:03:04Speaker 01

  It's different.

• 1:03:04Joe Rogan?

  But it's just crazy to be able to do that in a sport that you're relatively new at. I mean.

• 1:03:10Speaker 01

  Just, man, just think big about yourself.

• 1:03:12Joe Rogan?

  I get it.

• 1:03:12Speaker 01

  I tell every kid, I tell everybody.

• 1:03:14Joe Rogan?

  What's crazy about that, honestly, is like, I know you're just gonna get better at it. That's what's crazy. When you watch someone strike that well, early in their striking career. Like, your striking journey is so new, that the sky's the limit as far as your, your potential.

• 1:03:30Speaker 01

  Joe, in the nicest way possible, I really want to say this, that's the worst I'll ever be. The worst I'll ever be. And, and, and for whoever who's gonna watch this, that's the worst I'll ever be. Just think about it. 14 seconds. And then now think about if I, you're gonna put some time into me, some effort into me, and I'm putting effort into myself. That, that dirty boxing is probably the, the weakest I'll ever be in the sport of MMA.

• 1:03:54Joe Rogan?

  I believe you. I believe you. I mean, it only makes sense if you've been training that short amount of time at striking. Now, when you train striking, are you training boxing? Are you doing Muay Thai? Like, what kind of striking training you're doing? Are you incorporating it all together in MMA?

• 1:04:08Speaker 01

  I do it all. So, a lot of days I go in. So, I kind of have like a really good schedule right now since I'm not going to go into a fight. So, I do every day besides Sunday. Some days are two-a-days, like, because I go to Lifetime and play basketball. I go to Lifetime and sit in the cold tub and sauna and stuff. But when I strike, I go in there. One round's maybe boxing. Next round is kicks, teeps, knees, everything, elbows. The next round is what the blueprint I have of what moves I need to really do to get in to kind of get to my shots. Or I'm going to fake shoot and punch. And then I probably go 10 rounds, 12 rounds of that, five minutes each.

• 1:04:45Joe Rogan?

  So, you always incorporate all the MMA skills together in a workout?

• 1:04:49Speaker 01

  I try to.

• 1:04:50Joe Rogan?

  It's interesting, when I was talking to Ilya Topuria, when he's, particularly when he's not training for a fight, he doesn't do that. He is very rare in that, like, when he goes and he works on his boxing, he'll just box. He just boxes. When he works on his jiu-jitsu, he just does jiu-jitsu. When he works on his wrestling, he just does wrestling. Then, he puts them all together with MMA training. But he spends an exorbitant amount of time on each individual skill by itself to really like hone and tighten those things out, which is, it's an interesting choice. And obviously, for him, it's worked out spectacularly.

• 1:05:28Speaker 01

  Yes, it has.

• 1:05:28Joe Rogan?

  But there's no real, like, I guess, if you want to be like an elite soccer player, I'm sure there's a program that they've kind of devised, like, this is the very best way to become a good soccer player. They have, you know, coaches and they game plan, they know what to do. With MMA, there's all these different approaches. Everyone, Alex Pereira's approach is different than Marab's approach, which will be different than your approach. Everybody's got a different thing.

• 1:05:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's just, like you said, it depends a person and it also depends the team that you have. I'm just really big on, I'm just still very new, so I'm really big on just trying to make sure I can absorb all the information possible and kinda when I go into these fights, these first few fights, kind of showcase what I can. And sadly, they have ended early, not sadly, but in a good way, you know what I'm saying? But just go out there and showcase who I am and when I go train, I don't mind sitting in there all day. Sometimes me and John will practice for hours, just sitting there, repeating, repeating. And then all of a sudden, we go into eight o'clock, it's midnight. But I like that though, because it makes me feel good, it makes me feel like there's someone invested in me, that makes me feel like I'm here for a purpose and it makes me feel like this is what I'm,

• 1:06:38Speaker 01

  there's someone out of the country, there's someone in Russia, when I'm asleep, he's up. And I don't like that, he's up working. So when I can get all the time possible, I'm making sure I get all that time, because I don't want that dude to show up one day and he's got a little inch on me. And I just can't, I can't think about that happening.

• 1:06:56Joe Rogan?

  I always have that thought in my head with, in terms of like UFC fighters, like there's such a shallow division, the heavyweight division is so shallow. I'm like, there has gotta be some elite Russian wrestlers that are thinking about going the Fedor Emelianenko route. Like they're thinking about, I know Nemkov, who just won the PFL title, he's a very high level guy. But there has to be some like really high level wrestlers that are considering going into MMA.

• 1:07:23Speaker 01

  Right now, Russian heavyweights are really not as good as people think in wrestling.

• 1:07:29Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 1:07:29Speaker 01

  They got a guy named Abdur, he's still alive, I don't know if you've heard of him.

• 1:07:32Joe Rogan?

  I have.

• 1:07:33Speaker 01

  Six times, man, he is crazy, if he came to fighting, it's over with. Not for heavyweights, for the other groups, because he's gotta go through me. If he comes, if he comes to heavyweight. But Iranians, Iranians heavyweights are really good. I think that's where the heavyweight field should start coming from, is Iran, they got a lot of good, they got two good guys that are, one's my age, I'm 25, and another one is I think 22. They battle for the Olympic spot of a year, but the older one wins just by a little bit. The time is gonna pass where that guy steps up and he's gonna take the spot. So I would watch out for him.

• 1:08:07Joe Rogan?

  You know, what's interesting with MMA is some guys have a background in wrestling and then they learn how to strike and then they fall in love with striking and then they hardly ever wrestle when they fight. You know, it's it's kind of weird.

• 1:08:22Speaker 01

  It is weird.

• 1:08:22Joe Rogan?

  You would see that a lot in the early, like Josh Koscheck is a good example. Who's a very good amateur wrestler. And then when he fought in MMA, very rarely wrestled. It was mostly striking. You know, he can knock guys outstanding and I think guys kind of fall in love with that. And there's also the amount of effort. It's so tiring to wrestle along with all the other things. That sometimes guys just put that aside and they just decide to stand and bang with people.

• 1:08:46Speaker 01

  I I really like wrestling. I grew up wrestling and if I had a chance, I would love to go to 2028 Olympics and and win a win a gold medal. Um, that's how much I still love wrestling. But right now my path is MMA. And I knew the first couple of times that I would get those knockouts like like you look at your hands and it's like you you Spider-Man. You got superpowers like I got I got lightning in my hands like.

• 1:09:06Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:09:07Speaker 01

  I would have never thought in my 25 years of life that I would go out there and I would left hook somebody and he would be out cold and I would double leg and flip him. Who would have ever thought that would ever happen? And so like, you're right, you get obsessed with knocking people out, but I still think my base is wrestling. I just haven't used the best base yet. And that's just, I just want to show people that my best base doesn't need to be used because the second best one is just as good as the first.

• 1:09:29Joe Rogan?

  Hmm, well, and the second best one is getting better all the time. That's the thing. So and again, I keep going back to this, but if you can get that good at wrestling, you can get that good at anything. It's just a matter of putting in the time and and dedicating yourself to that thing. But it's the mindset that allows someone to become an Olympic gold medalist in wrestling. Boy, if that person that that's a scary person, that person decides to focus on whatever the fuck it is. Fucking pickleball, who gives a shit? They'll be elite at it. They just have to.

• 1:09:59Speaker 01

  You will.

• 1:10:00Joe Rogan?

  Put their mind on it.

• 1:10:00Speaker 01

  It's a hundred percent a mindset thing. It ain't nothing else.

• 1:10:03Joe Rogan?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:10:03Speaker 01

  You can have a athletic ability, you hard work all day, you can be so disciplined in the world, but if your mind doesn't think it. That's why, I feel like that's why I beat a lot of people before I even walked out there is I knew it. I just, you just gotta know.

• 1:10:16Joe Rogan?

  Championship mindset.

• 1:10:18Speaker 01

  Some people just don't feel it and you just gotta feel it.

• 1:10:20Joe Rogan?

  I know, you know, it's like, I was talking to a friend of mine, I don't wanna mention any names cuz then you'll connect it to the fighter. But he, he said, man, he goes, I don't wanna fuck with anybody anymore that needs a mental coach. And I said, really, why? He goes, it's just like, this is just too much. He goes, I wanna do that, don't need that shit.

• 1:10:37Speaker 01

  You don't need it.

• 1:10:38Joe Rogan?

  It's interesting because some guys do and some guys, that mental coach takes them over the top and then they find a way to win. Where, you know, maybe they'd have mental hiccups in the past, you know, but his, his mentality was, I, I want a guy who has no problems. Like, if I'm gonna coach a guy, I don't want a guy who's a head case. I want a guy who goes in there and already has this, I'm gonna fucking dominate. And if I don't, I'm gonna learn why I didn't dominate and I'm gonna come back and I'm gonna get him next time.

• 1:11:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I feel like that's the person I am. I just wanna go in there and dominate. And I also think that a lot of people kinda rely too much on a lot of outside things to kinda make them feel good about themselves to go out there and perform. Instead of just, just putting that switch on and just saying, hey, we're here.

• 1:11:23Joe Rogan?

  Outside things like what? Like what do you mean?

• 1:11:25Speaker 01

  Just, you know, mental coaches, you know, someone, you gotta get someone else to be a, maybe a, a breath working coach or some, another coach, another coach. There's so many labels for coaches out there that you don't need. And when I was wrestling at Minnesota, I had Brandon Eggham, Luke Becker, who's assistant and head coach, and Trevor Bramble. That's all I had. I didn't have nobody else. I didn't, because I didn't want anybody to interfere with the connection that we had. And I feel like when you get a great bond with somebody and then you bring in more people, the bonds get mixed up. People are paying attention to too many different things. Instead of practicing, maybe I gotta work on my mind. Instead of working on my mind, maybe I gotta, I gotta go do something else. Maybe I gotta take some, take, take care of something else, so.

• 1:12:05Joe Rogan?

  Sort of like when you were talking about not watching video on your opponents cuz you're thinking about his double, how am I gonna stop his double? Instead of thinking about, what am I gonna do?

• 1:12:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, I would rather be productive for the team instead of productive for eight different people. And maybe three of them don't care about you as much, you know, they're there just to get a little something from you.

• 1:12:21Joe Rogan?

  Right, right, right, right, right. Where are you training now?

• 1:12:24Speaker 01

  Right now I'm still in Minneapolis. I'm having a baby girl this Sunday.

• 1:12:28Joe Rogan?

  Oh, congratulations.

• 1:12:29Speaker 01

  This Sunday, my little girl's coming. I appreciate it. Thank you.

• 1:12:31Joe Rogan?

  That's awesome.

• 1:12:31Speaker 01

  She's gonna pop out. My lady's gonna hopefully get induced that day. If it comes early, it comes early. So that'll be really nice. So I'm in Minneapolis right now, but when I do all the main training, New Mexico, Jackson Wing.

• 1:12:44Joe Rogan?

  Okay, so in Minneapolis, where are you training?

• 1:12:46Speaker 01

  That guy, with that guy Billy Simon in Pride Lake.

• 1:12:48Joe Rogan?

  Same guy?

• 1:12:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, I've been with him forever.

• 1:12:50Joe Rogan?

  So you're in this little tiny gym?

• 1:12:52Speaker 01

  I'm in that little gym. Nobody sees us. We got partners that need to come in, but rather than that, I don't want the big lights.

• 1:12:59Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:13:00Speaker 01

  When I was growing up in Portage, Indiana, I had a wrestling mat in the garage and me and my two brothers would wrestle. And that's where we got the most work in. My dad said, "Go in there and hand fight and whoever comes out, comes out." And it was definitely not me at the time, but baby right now is me. But we were going there and hand fighting. My dad's philosophy was, we had Iowa-style wrestling, and Iowa-style wrestling was brutal. If his face needs to be run into the wall, run his face into the wall. And that's how we grew up. And if you don't watch your face ran into the wall, you better put his in first.

• 1:13:32Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:13:34Joe Rogan?

  And so when you're training with this guy, are you training, like, are you training like, "I could get a call in a week to fight and I'm ready to do that"? This episode is brought to you by Quince. Putting together a good wardrobe isn't actually that hard. You just need the right pieces and that's where Quince comes in. Quince is all about creating quality, versatile clothing with premium materials, like 100% Mongolian cashmere sweaters from just $60, and organic cotton tees that are soft and breathable. Personally, I got a bunch of their stuff and I love it. I really love the fleece pullover hoodie and the flowknit Breeze Performance Tees. They have really simple, smooth designs,

• 1:14:16Joe Rogan?

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• 1:14:52Joe Rogan?

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• 1:15:36Joe Rogan?

  Don't have insurance or live outside of the United States? You can still get 10% off your first month. Visit betterhelp.com to explore your payment options. That's better H E L P dot com. Or are you training, like just like developing skills constantly?

• 1:15:53Speaker 01

  I just religiously train to develop skills constantly. I try not to never stop. I don't like stopping because I'm kind of a, this is crazy. I'm a thicker body, so if I sit for a little bit, I feel like I'm getting fat and I want to feel that way. So I just try to always keep myself in shape and try to keep the best look possible. So if you need me on one week, which I don't want to do any short notice, just how, just how me and John do it, no short notice. Like if you need me in a week, I look good, I'm ready. But we just take our time.

• 1:16:20Joe Rogan?

  So did John coach you about that? Like give you some thoughts about that? Because I think that's a giant mistake that guys make, you know? And like the Alexander Volkanovsky fight is a good example. The Islam Makachev fight, he took that fight on 11 days notice. He's just been hanging around, drinking, partying, just being himself, just chilling. And then all of a sudden he gets this opportunity for a rematch. First fight was razor thin decision. He lost and he's like, I could do better, but you can't do better without a camp.

• 1:16:48Speaker 01

  You gotta, you gotta have time to be yourself.

• 1:16:50Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. You have to have time to peak. And one of the things I really always admired about John is like even a fight like, like the Chael Sonnen fight, they offered him Chael Sonnen on short notice. He was like, nope, nope. And they're like, what do you, we need you to do this. He's like, nope. I'm a professional world champion. I prepare for my opponents and I, I don't want to fight unless I'm prepared for my opponent. Period.

• 1:17:14Speaker 01

  It's the smartest way.

• 1:17:16Joe Rogan?

  Look at him, he's the GOAT.

• 1:17:17Speaker 01

  He is.

• 1:17:17Joe Rogan?

  I mean, it's just so many guys, they get, and I like, I do appreciate that Alex does take those short notice fights and he wins some of those short notice fights, but how many times he's fought injured, like really injured? Like the first Yuri Prochovka fight, he had a fucked up knee, man. And when he, when he stopped Yuri, there's a, a moment when he's on top of Yuri and he's beating on him and the referee stops it and he goes to step up and he rolls off of him. The reason he rolled off of him, he couldn't support himself on his knee. That's how fucked up his knee was and he was in a world title fight.

• 1:17:51Speaker 01

  It's bad.

• 1:17:52Joe Rogan?

  Crazy.

• 1:17:53Speaker 01

  Well, I feel like this is the only sport where they would let that happen, just because football, you sitting on, you sitting on IR.

• 1:17:58Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 1:17:59Speaker 01

  We don't have no IR.

• 1:18:00Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:18:00Speaker 01

  It's either you, you do it or you say no.

• 1:18:02Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:18:03Speaker 01

  And.

• 1:18:03Joe Rogan?

  And if you say no, they get upset at you.

• 1:18:05Speaker 01

  A lot of people get timid.

• 1:18:06Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:06Speaker 01

  And I mean, once you get past that barrier of, I think right now, since I'm, since I'm gonna have this daughter, I think my, my tone and mindset has changed to kind of really be more of a, a father figure for her, but also for like, if, if kids wanna look at me and be like, wow, you know, Gabe was normal also. But I think just, you gotta say no to a lot of people. You gotta be, you gotta be generous in a lot of ways, but you also gotta be able to go out there and say, I don't like this. I don't feel this way about this and this is why, and be cool on both sides, but some people get scared about that moment.

• 1:18:37Joe Rogan?

  Are you doing, what kind of strength and conditioning are you doing?

• 1:18:41Speaker 01

  So I still, I still lift with the college team, so everything they do with wrestling.

• 1:18:45Joe Rogan?

  College wrestling team?

• 1:18:45Speaker 01

  Yes. Everything they do at Minnesota, the University of Minnesota, I still do. I still got the same strength coach with them. Bike sprints, aerodyne sprints, um, walk bike, versa climbers, everything. We, we try to mix it in all, rowers, everything, just to, just to stay active. And if it's not where we're getting close to a fight, just maybe just take longer breaks in between, just to keep the heart rate up, but I don't like when my heart rate takes a, takes a break. I like to kind of keep it consistent, so when I ramp up, it's already ready to rock and roll.

• 1:19:15Joe Rogan?

  You already have a very high baseline.

• 1:19:16Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:19:16Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. And like, when you're doing strength and conditioning as far as like weightlifting and stuff like that, like, are you trying to put on weight at all? No.

• 1:19:24Speaker 01

  No, I like.

• 1:19:24Joe Rogan?

  You like 250?

• 1:19:25Speaker 01

  I like to stay where I'm at. I do a lot of band, band work, a lot of explosive work, a lot of jumps, a lot of light weights with high reps, just to kind of keep the body moving and kind of keep the, the, the cutness and the strength there, but not also put too much where you're stiff.

• 1:19:41Joe Rogan?

  And you're naturally a large guy anyway. It's not like you have to put on a ton of weight. But like when you see a guy like Francis, who's 265 natural, you know, and he used to have to cut a little bit of weight to make 260, which is kind of crazy, isn't it? Isn't it crazy? But it's also crazy that the UFC has a weight limit that you have to make at heavyweight. You have to cut weight to make heavyweight.

• 1:20:01Speaker 01

  How different you think it would be if they didn't have 265? And it was just maybe 300?

• 1:20:06Joe Rogan?

  It should be no weight. It's heavyweight. It should be, what they really need is more weight classes. The UFC, there's gaps that are just enormous. Like the gap between 85 and 205 is crazy. 20-pound weight gap in between categories is, that doesn't make any sense to me. 10 pounds, 10 pounds is still a lot, but at least it's reasonable.

• 1:20:29Speaker 01

  How many weight classes boxing have?

• 1:20:30Joe Rogan?

  A shitload. They have so many. Boxing has so many weight classes.

• 1:20:36Speaker 01

  Boxing got like eight champions for each weight too.

• 1:20:38Joe Rogan?

  That's a problem. That's a problem. MMA does as well, right? If you think about it, there's the one champion, there's the PFL champion. But the difference is, is really only the UFC champion. In terms of the public perception. Like, we talked about Nemkov, who's an excellent fighter. Nobody knows who the fuck he is. Not in America. You go to a regular kid, you know, some kid on the street and, you know, you say, who is Vadim Nemkov? And they're like, what?

• 1:21:02Speaker 01

  But I bet you that kid knows I Show Speed.

• 1:21:04Joe Rogan?

  I bet they do, right? I bet they do, right? Right. They know I Show Speed, they probably know who Alex Pereira is. They probably know who Islam Makachev is. They know who the UFC guys are. The UFC, that title is worth so much. It's, it's, you know, it's, it's the name. It's the, it is the combat sports leader. And if you're not in the UFC, I don't care. I mean, you, look, you can go to the PFL and you can win that million-dollar tournament and you can make money. And I'm all for that. And I'm very happy for those guys. They get to feed their family and they, they provide and they, they make a great living and they can retire with some money in the bank. But the reality is. Part of what you're doing is you're trying to be the best.

• 1:21:49Joe Rogan?

  And if you're going to be the best, you kinda have to be in the UFC.

• 1:21:52Speaker 01

  Agreed.

• 1:21:53Joe Rogan?

  I mean, that's just what it is. That's just what it is.

• 1:21:55Speaker 01

  There's so many great leagues, but like the most prestigious people. You can say PFL, you can say anything and um. You can go to any place and make a shit ton of money, but once you get that stamp of. He's a UFC champ, people are like, damn, man, that's him.

• 1:22:09Joe Rogan?

  That's it.

• 1:22:09Speaker 01

  That's him.

• 1:22:10Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's it. They put that UFC belt on you and it's on ESPN and everybody sees it. That's it. The PFL is just another belt. It's like, you know. Boxing has so, they have the IBF, the WBA, the WBO, the WBC. It's like, it's just like so many fucking organizations. It just gets so crazy. It's like.

• 1:22:31Speaker 01

  Then they try to make Terrence Crawford pay for his belt.

• 1:22:33Joe Rogan?

  Ridiculous.

• 1:22:34Speaker 01

  How crazy is that?

• 1:22:34Joe Rogan?

  Terrence Crawford's like, fuck you. I'm the champ.

• 1:22:36Speaker 01

  They wanted 300,000?

• 1:22:38Joe Rogan?

  Everybody saw it. Is that what they wanted from him? 300 grand?

• 1:22:41Speaker 01

  Am I, uh, can we get a look on this? Because I might be tripping, but I don't think I'm tripping.

• 1:22:44Joe Rogan?

  They stripped him. I know they stripped him, which is crazy.

• 1:22:48Speaker 01

  Purse. And I think it was like 3% of his whatever he made, so it was.

• 1:22:52Joe Rogan?

  That's so nuts. That is so nuts. That is so nuts that they get paid that much, just be a sanctioning body. And what are they doing? They're not doing anything. Like, it doesn't mean anything.

• 1:23:03Speaker 01

  Well, they just get the best looking guy to maybe throw a belt on you.

• 1:23:08Speaker 01

  That's about all. They don't really get nothing else.

• 1:23:10Joe Rogan?

  You get nothing. You get a belt, but the, the, everybody knows he beat, they beat the brakes off Canelo Alvarez. That's it.

• 1:23:17Speaker 01

  Man, I love Canelo.

• 1:23:18Joe Rogan?

  I love Canelo as well. But I, you know. I love what Terrence did, because what Terrence did was crazy. He goes all the way up from 47 to 68. He had one fight at 54. You know, wins the title at 54 and then goes all the way up to 68. And everybody's like, Canelo's gonna be too big. Canelo's gonna be too big. Nope. Nope. Skill.

• 1:23:42Joe Rogan?

  Skill is king.

• 1:23:43Speaker 01

  Yup.

• 1:23:43Joe Rogan?

  And he's thirty-eight.

• 1:23:45Speaker 01

  He's thirty-eight. He can do a couple more if he wanted to.

• 1:23:46Joe Rogan?

  I don't think he does.

• 1:23:47Speaker 01

  But he don't want to. I think he's done.

• 1:23:49Joe Rogan?

  He's done, and I love it. I love that he's done.

• 1:23:50Speaker 01

  Three hundred thou.

• 1:23:51Joe Rogan?

  Dethroned over three hundred thousand dollar fee. Wow. That's crazy.

• 1:23:57Speaker 01

  Do you think that's right?

• 1:23:58Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 1:23:59Speaker 01

  No?

• 1:23:59Joe Rogan?

  No. Unpaid fees and brief reign as undisputed champion. It doesn't matter. He's the fucking champion. You can't take the guy's belt because he's not willing to give you money. Fuck you. He won. He won. Fuck off. Fuck off. He won.

• 1:24:15Speaker 01

  Well, now I see that, is there gonna be a new boxing promotion, Zafa?

• 1:24:18Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 1:24:19Speaker 01

  Sorry.

• 1:24:19Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, um, so the UFC is doing something with the Saudis. And they are, I think they're launching their first event in January. I think they're launching their first event the night before the big UFC on Paramount event.

• 1:24:33Speaker 01

  So it'll be the twenty-third.

• 1:24:34Joe Rogan?

  Yes. I don't think they've announced anything in terms of the card, who's gonna be on it. I mean, that's not a lot of time, you know, that's only, not even a month from now. So I don't even understand how they're doing that. Um, but they're probably going to do the same thing that Riyadh season's doing, you know?

• 1:24:53Speaker 01

  Which is really smart. Riyadh season's great. I mean, it's putting guys into that next level category of, hey, you are a star.

• 1:25:00Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm. And Turkey Allshake is throwing crazy money.

• 1:25:04Speaker 01

  Rightfully deserved for a lot of these guys.

• 1:25:05Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:25:06Speaker 01

  They deserve it.

• 1:25:06Joe Rogan?

  Oh, they definitely do. But it's, you know, uh, if you, you do that, you're gonna get people to fight that would avoid each other ordinarily, you know? And, you know, we've seen that already. The Saudis have already been able to do that. Get guys to fight, and, you know, you're gonna put on the most exciting fights. You're gonna put on the best matchups. And so I think the UFC is trying to do that same kind of model. And now that the Saudis own Ring Magazine, so they have the Ring Magazine belt, which has always been the most prestigious belt, you know, like, there's always... A bunch of different champions in different weight classes, but if you're a fan of Ring Magazine like I am, when you would get Ring Magazine and they would have the Ring Champion, you know, Marvin Hagler, like, well, that's the fucking champion.

• 1:25:51Speaker 01

  That's him.

• 1:25:51Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's it. There might be a WBO guy out there, a WBA guy out there, but the reality is, that's the guy. That's the guy. And the boxing needs like a unified champion thing like that. So like when you see Terrence in there with like five belts, like it's great that he's got all those belts, but why? It should be one belt. It should be like, this is the super middleweight champion of the fucking planet, period. Fuck all your sanctioning bodies. That's the guy. That's it. One belt is all he needs.

• 1:26:21Speaker 01

  And they're all different colors too.

• 1:26:24Joe Rogan?

  They're all, they're all cool looking.

• 1:26:26Speaker 01

  They're all cool looking.

• 1:26:27Joe Rogan?

  I mean, it's cool that he's got them all. I mean, you go over his living room, it's probably dope.

• 1:26:30Speaker 01

  The Instagram picture look cool.

• 1:26:31Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it looks great. I mean, it looks great when he was in the ring and he's, you know, got them on his shoulders and shit, one on his waist. I wonder if they fight over who gets to be on the waist, you know? Like, I'll give you an extra a hundred grand if you put it on your waist, you know? But the reality is, it's like the belt doesn't mean anything. The fighter means something. And when, we all know who the champ is. We all know it's Terrence. If this other guy gets the belt, it's like, okay. You didn't beat Terrence Crawford, so you're not really the 168 pound champion.

• 1:26:57Speaker 01

  But isn't that a hard, do you think for a boxer like that, is that a hard shadow to live in? Or do you think it's a shadow to, or is that labeled as a shadow? You know, because Terrence leaves and then you step up.

• 1:27:08Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's different. When Terrence leaves, if he, if he gives up all the belts and he really does decide to totally leave, which I'm not totally convinced, because I think he, they wanted to him to have a rematch with Canelo. And they, I think he threw a big number at them. This is all I'm reading rumors online. I don't know what's, see if you find out if that's true. Did they offer, did Terrence Crawford demand like a certain amount for a Canelo Alvarez rematch? Because he's coming in soon. I'll ask him in person, but I, I feel like.

• 1:27:41Joe Rogan?

  You could probably entice him for one more big fight.

• 1:27:44Speaker 01

  Probably could.

• 1:27:44Joe Rogan?

  You know, one more big fight at 68, or maybe even at 54. I mean, really, you could fight at 47.

• 1:27:51Speaker 01

  When do you, when do you think there comes a point where people need to just stop? And like, you know, there, there's always gonna be money thrown at you, but when you come up, when you think there's a point that like,

• 1:28:01Joe Rogan?

  It's different for every person, you know?

• 1:28:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:28:03Joe Rogan?

  So here it is, right here. Um, so Bernie Davis revealed the Terence Crawford's price for a Canelo rematch, and it's massive, according to Davis. Crawford won't return to the ring with Canelo Alvarez unless he's paid $100 million. And he deserves it.

• 1:28:16Speaker 01

  Rightfully so.

• 1:28:17Joe Rogan?

  Crawford earned $50 million for the first fight in September, but after a tactical, low-action bout that disappointed many fans. Fuck off, who the fuck did that disappoint? Who the, who did that disappoint? You gotta be a casual if that disappointed you. Tactical, low-action bout, bleh. Who wrote this? I don't know, fuck off.

• 1:28:36Speaker 01

  I think I could write a better one than this.

• 1:28:38Joe Rogan?

  I think boxing has some very disrespectful journalists. I see some disrespectful shit they write about boxers. Um, go back to that little thing, what it said there? So, anyway, pressure now on Turkey Alashik to, to, to decide whether the rematch is worth that kinda money. Fans already calling for other opponents, Benavides, Badabiev, Bivol. Fighters they believe, uh, bring real action. Oh, so this is a, kind of a disrespectful.

• 1:29:03Speaker 01

  It's kinda messed up.

• 1:29:03Joe Rogan?

  Real action.

• 1:29:04Speaker 01

  Why is he dissing, why are they dissing him like this?

• 1:29:06Joe Rogan?

  They do that a lot. There's a lot of shit talking in boxing, which I guess is fine. I like that there's not that much of that in MMA. MMA is much more respectful.

• 1:29:14Speaker 01

  Really standard and respectful.

• 1:29:15Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and that guy deserves everything. He's one of the greatest to ever do it. And one of the best switch hitters in the, the history of the sport.

• 1:29:23Speaker 01

  Are you putting him above Floyd?

• 1:29:26Joe Rogan?

  It's hard. It's, you know, it's hard. You know, they, they never fought each other, which I think would have been amazing. If they're both in their prime at the same time, that would have been fantastic to watch.

• 1:29:35Speaker 01

  Ain't Floyd supposed to fight Mike? Am I tripping?

• 1:29:38Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 1:29:38Speaker 01

  I think I'm tripping.

• 1:29:40Joe Rogan?

  But I really, I feel like that's gonna be like Floyd versus, or excuse me, like Mike versus Roy, or like Mike versus Logan. It kinda looks more like sparring. It looks more like sparring really than a fight fight. How is Floyd gonna fight Mike Tyson?

• 1:29:56Speaker 01

  Have you ever, have you ever spoke to Mike Tyson?

• 1:29:58Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I've had him on a couple times, yeah.

• 1:30:00Speaker 01

  Man, he's my favorite.

• 1:30:01Joe Rogan?

  He's.

• 1:30:01Speaker 01

  He's my favorite.

• 1:30:02Joe Rogan?

  Bro, he's, when, when he was in his prime, there was nobody like him. There was nobody like him. Cause he had that speed, that speed, and that's something that you have. The, the speed of a, of a lighter person in the frame of a heavyweight is an extraordinary gift. Because it, so many of these heavyweights, man, they got big power, but, like Francis, big power, but they don't move like a lightweight guy. They don't move like a hundred and seventy pound guy. When Mike was in his prime, he was so fast. You could see guys trying to calculate and calibrate because it was different. They were used to fighting heavyweights. And all of a sudden, you got this guy bobbing and weaving and moving towards you and like, ah!

• 1:30:45Speaker 01

  It's crazy.

• 1:30:45Joe Rogan?

  Your brain is being overloaded with all the possibilities. It was just, it was a totally different thing, man.

• 1:30:51Speaker 01

  He's by far my favorite.

• 1:30:52Joe Rogan?

  Oh yeah. In his prime, he's the most extraordinary heavyweight that ever existed. Cause, and it was, every show was an execution. It wasn't like, you know, oh my god, is Mike gonna lose this one? No, in his prime, it was just all executions.

• 1:31:05Speaker 01

  And I think the best thing about that, like being popular back in the day, like he was such a big time fighter. I was watching a lot of videos, like Will Smith and Magic Johnson were showing up and, and Jordan and stuff. But you know how crazy it is nowadays that we have social media, that you don't have to go and, and watch someone live? But back then, like, when you see the videos of Michael Jackson in, in this hotel and you look out and it's like, wow, it's Michael Jackson, like, that wow factor is like super cool. And he had that.

• 1:31:30Joe Rogan?

  Oh yeah.

• 1:31:31Speaker 01

  To a, the highest degree.

• 1:31:32Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, everybody dressed up in the best clothes. They all showed up.

• 1:31:36Speaker 01

  Chains on, watches on.

• 1:31:37Joe Rogan?

  Everything, everybody. It was, it was an event to be seen at. And if you were one of the people that was ringside, like you were, you know, you were an elite celebrity. And that was, you know, the Mike Tyson era. That was, I mean, it was different. It was different than. It was different than any other heavyweight like since Ali. So you had Ali and then Larry Holmes, who doesn't get the credit that he deserves.

• 1:32:03Speaker 01

  He was fantastic. So I watched all these videos too.

• 1:32:05Joe Rogan?

  Amazing fighter, but he lived in the shadow of Ali, you know, and a lot of people hated him too, because he beat up Ali when Ali was already done.

• 1:32:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:32:13Joe Rogan?

  That was tough to watch and you know, he had been Ali's sparring partner when Ali was younger. You know, and so, and everybody knew how good Larry Holmes was and everybody knew that Muhammad Ali was,

• 1:32:24Speaker 01

  Would you do that?

• 1:32:25Joe Rogan?

  Older and what's that?

• 1:32:26Speaker 01

  Would you do that if he was a sparring partner for your homie? And that's gotta, that's gotta be a difficult combo because you burn, you burn a bridge.

• 1:32:34Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you burn a bridge with the whole society, but part of it is like you kinda have to, right? Because if you are the heavyweight champion of the world and they want to set up a fight with Muhammad Ali, Muhammad Ali wants to fight you and they want to give you 10 million dollars and it's going to be on TV and everybody's hyped up about it, like what are you going to do? Say no, I won't fight him, I'm gonna relinquish my crown? What are you gonna do? Like I don't, I don't know if he had any opportunity to do anything other than fight him. But it's just like, he was, Muhammad Ali was so beloved, not just as one of the greatest fighters of all time, but also as a cultural figure that watching that man beat him up like that just beat the shit out of Ali.

• 1:33:16Joe Rogan?

  And then seeing Ali afterwards when he was, he had the shakes and he had Parkinson's and everybody knew that that was trauma related Parkinson's and knowing that Larry Holmes dished out a lot of that. I think in a lot of people's mind that always, that's so, and I think that to this day is why Larry Holmes does not get the credit that he deserves. He had one of the greatest jabs in the history of the sport.

• 1:33:39Speaker 01

  Crazy. I just saw a video that he was flicking it.

• 1:33:41Joe Rogan?

  Ooh, even when he fought Mike, when he fought Mike, he was way past his prime. You know, he had been out for a long time.

• 1:33:47Speaker 01

  Mike did his thing.

• 1:33:48Joe Rogan?

  And, but you know, there was a round in that fight where Larry Holmes was popping that jab, where it made you think like, man, what would this fight have been like if Larry was in his prime? You know, it would have been very interesting. I think, I think Mike was on another level, though.

• 1:34:03Speaker 01

  He was, he was, when I, man, when I see him, he just had the vein.

• 1:34:06Joe Rogan?

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• 1:36:07Speaker 01

  You know, like, that was, that's my, like, wow for people.

• 1:36:10Joe Rogan?

  He was a tank.

• 1:36:11Speaker 01

  He was just.

• 1:36:11Joe Rogan?

  He was a speedy tank. And just the skill, too. And also that style, that peek-a-boo style was just so different than anything else anybody was doing. So it was so hard to prepare for. You got, most, most of these heavyweight boxers were standing straight up. You know, they're throwing jabs and moving, moving like Foreman or moving like Ken Norton or whoever they were. But Muhammad Ali, you know, was the only guy that moved like a lighter guy. He was, he was different. But Mike Tyson was crouching and bobbing and weaving and coming at. It was a totally different thing to prepare for.

• 1:36:46Speaker 01

  You can't prepare for something like that. That's like when someone is too athletic. That's like preparing for Myles Garrett right now. You just can't. He's gonna have 25 sacks this year. And it's like, how do you prepare for something like that besides try to psych yourself into maybe I can do it? But this is not gonna happen.

• 1:37:00Joe Rogan?

  There's always gonna be freaks. There's always gonna be these athletic freaks that can just do things that no one else can do.

• 1:37:06Speaker 01

  Now there's more than, now there's even more because you see high school football guy, 6'5", 280, going to Ohio State. I'm like, damn, what they got going on?

• 1:37:15Joe Rogan?

  People are bigger. Also, people are doing things for their kids at an early age to optimize their growth and making sure that they come out bigger and stronger and faster. Getting them training younger, strength and conditioning and, you know, plyometrics and shit when they're real young to get them prepared for things. I mean, look, you know Vasiliy Lomachenko?

• 1:37:35Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:37:35Joe Rogan?

  So that guy's.

• 1:37:36Speaker 01

  Little guy, man, he was fast.

• 1:37:37Joe Rogan?

  That dude's dad took him out of boxing for two years to have him learn Ukrainian dance so that he have better footwork.

• 1:37:44Speaker 01

  And he was dancing on people. I seen, I watched his highlights on Instagram.

• 1:37:48Joe Rogan?

  Footwork was insane.

• 1:37:49Speaker 01

  Usik's the same.

• 1:37:50Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm, same coach.

• 1:37:51Speaker 01

  Usik's the same person.

• 1:37:52Joe Rogan?

  Same coach.

• 1:37:53Speaker 01

  I really like Usik.

• 1:37:54Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, oh my god.

• 1:37:55Speaker 01

  He's crazy.

• 1:37:56Joe Rogan?

  Again, one of the greatest heavyweights of all time. And not a big guy either, you know?

• 1:38:00Speaker 01

  He just knows where to go and when to go.

• 1:38:02Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:38:02Speaker 01

  Which is nice.

• 1:38:03Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's also he's constantly moving. He's, he's never right in front of you. He's constantly stepping and stepping and stepping and, you know, he's setting you up. And he's always like downloading and calculating your movements and your reactions to things. It's so skillful. That to me is the, the most beautiful thing about boxing is that someone could stand in the fire and be so skillful that, like Crawford. That, I mean, standing right in front of Canelo, there was one point in the fight where he was pity patting him. His. Here's Lomachenko when he's in his prime. Like, the movement was bananas. And it was just his ease of footwork. And it wasn't footwork like trying to get away from you. It was footwork standing right in front of you and stepping off to the side and cracking, like that kind of shit.

• 1:38:47Joe Rogan?

  Like, these angles is just, unless you have tried to do that, you don't know how ridiculously difficult that is.

• 1:38:54Speaker 01

  The conditioning, all that is crazy.

• 1:38:55Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm. Oh, yeah. Yeah, your legs have to be in peak form.

• 1:39:00Speaker 01

  Super peak form.

• 1:39:01Joe Rogan?

  It's just, there's so many guys out there that you could learn from by watching, and they set the bar so high. And that is the difference between watching like Keith Hackney versus Emmanuel Yarborough way back in 1993 versus watching, you know, Jon Jones in 2025. It's like, we get to see now these guys that have seen it all, the Piotr Jans, the Iliatoporia's, the Islam Makachev's. You get to see the elite of the elite today. And these young kids that are coming up now, they get to see that and learn from that and incorporate all these things. And you're seeing these guys that are fighting on Dana White's Contender Series that are, they look like world championship caliber fighters, and they're not even in the UFC yet.

• 1:39:44Speaker 01

  Most definitely the ladder guys. Most definitely the ladder guys.

• 1:39:47Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, there's so many good guys now. But in the heavyweight division, it's still fairly shallow.

• 1:39:53Speaker 01

  I know.

• 1:39:54Joe Rogan?

  Where Gable comes in.

• 1:39:57Speaker 01

  Yo, it's funny, I think I heard you say shallow about three times and, you know, so, in the most nicest way, because I like to be humble with the words and I like to talk with the confidence. I really think I can go out there and do right by the, this big promotion and go out there and just be fantastic.

• 1:40:15Joe Rogan?

  I think you can too, and I think you can do what Mike Tyson did, which is revitalize the heavyweight division. Because, I mean, other than Jon, who's of course a superstar, but he's kind of semi-retired. The Tom Aspinall Cyril Gahn thing was a fucking disaster. I mean, that's a disaster to, I mean, Tom Aspinall still can't see. He's got a fucked up right eyeball still.

• 1:40:36Speaker 01

  It's really bad, right?

• 1:40:37Joe Rogan?

  I mean, the reality is, he might not ever fight again. Like, who knows? Like, if he has surgery on his eye and it doesn't go well and he can't see out of the eye. Apparently, he's still fucked up in his right eye. There's some tendon damage or something. And, you know, eyes are so tricky. You never know. Like, unless you're a fucking complete psychopath like Michael Bisping, who fought 11 fights in the UFC blind in one eye, which is so crazy that he did that. Do you know what he did, that crazy motherfucker?

• 1:41:06Speaker 01

  What'd he do?

• 1:41:06Joe Rogan?

  He memorized the eye chart.

• 1:41:08Speaker 01

  Like?

• 1:41:09Joe Rogan?

  He memorized it, so that he could put a, they could cover his left eye.

• 1:41:13Speaker 01

  Oh, my god.

• 1:41:13Joe Rogan?

  And he could just-

• 1:41:14Speaker 01

  So whenever he went to do an eye exam, he knew the letters?

• 1:41:17Joe Rogan?

  They would say, "All right, read the third chart," and he would say, "A, B, C, D, E." He knew what the letters were.

• 1:41:22Speaker 01

  Oh, he's smart.

• 1:41:24Joe Rogan?

  He's crazy!

• 1:41:25Speaker 01

  Oh, he's smart.

• 1:41:25Joe Rogan?

  He couldn't fucking see out of one of his eyes! And still fought world-class fighters. I think 11 fights he had, only being able to see out of one eye.

• 1:41:35Speaker 01

  Yeah. I'm not really sure how to, how to engage with the eye talk on Tom Aspinall. But, um, I think he's a, I think he's a fantastic fighter. I think Gahn is really saying-

• 1:41:44Joe Rogan?

  What do you mean by engage with the eye talk?

• 1:41:46Speaker 01

  You know, I feel like getting poked in the eye sucks. And I just don't know how he feels that he got, you know what I'm saying? So, I'm not gonna-

• 1:41:52Joe Rogan?

  We don't know what he was experiencing during the fight.

• 1:41:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, and nobody, and nobody ever knows, but, you know, critics are gonna go online and say, say X, Y, and Z. But I'm just gonna stay in the middle ground. I say, I think Tom's a fantastic fighter. Cyril is great also, and I think a lot of them are also great also. You're gonna, you're gonna always say it's really shallow. And I believe it's shallow too, and I believe I can go out there and, and do the best I can and really dominate when I need to. But, um, just, just when, when I see Tom Aspinall, you know, Tom Aspinall reminds me of a guy from Turkey that I wrestled in the Olympics. He was a 2016 Olympic champ. His name's Taha Akhul. He was 6'4", same size as, um, same size as Tom. Same build, same everything. And I went out there and I beat him 8 to 0. And I was in his face for that 6 minutes. And I let him know that, that I was here.

• 1:42:36Speaker 01

  And I feel like in that instance, that's when the tides change. And I feel like with a guy like Tom, I think, um, I look at him as like a guy like Taha Akul. You know, he's on top. He's the leader, you know, he's still fresh, but I think there's a, there's another hungry guy that's gonna come. And, and hopefully it's me that's gonna come and go out there and, and do what I need to do.

• 1:42:56Joe Rogan?

  Well, listen, I hope Tom gets back in because again, we don't know really what's going on with his eye. And for all the critics, you need to know there's the right eye, that's the problem. But if you look at when he fought, his left eye, the finger went deeper in his left eye than it did his right eye. So if you think he's faking it, the, he was knuckled deep in that fucking left eye.

• 1:43:15Speaker 01

  He was all up in that eye.

• 1:43:16Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I mean, it's horrible to see, to undergo multiple eye surgeries, multiple eye surgeries.

• 1:43:22Speaker 01

  And, and.

• 1:43:24Joe Rogan?

  That's horrible. By the time his statement goes out, I'll probably have surgery on one eye already. Next surgery's coming mid-January. Neck surgery, so he's having surgery on both eyes?

• 1:43:35Speaker 01

  You know, it's, it's really messed up, but I think the way the, the post-fight interview went, um, cause I like the, I like to look at how, how people approach the world also too. And he was just, just upset how the people are reacting, you know, saying, why the fuck are you booing? Why are you doing this? I mean, there could have been a, there could have been a great approach to that, of him saying, man, you know, I got my eye poked, but I, but I'm gonna come back stronger from this, but.

• 1:43:56Joe Rogan?

  Well, the problem is people are always gonna doubt you when you get poked in the eye. You know, there's always gonna be a bunch of people like, oh, you're fine. Because people have gotten poked in the eye and they have continued fighting. But is that smart? It's a foul. First of all, I think every time a guy gets poked in the eye, one point deduction, immediately, instantly, maybe even two points. You should never do that to a person, never. One thing you notice about Piotr Jan's fight with Murab, he fights like this. His hand isn't a fist, so when he's got his hand up like this and the, the front hand's extended, he's not doing that.

• 1:44:31Speaker 01

  He's kinda guiding you.

• 1:44:32Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:44:32Speaker 01

  Honestly.

• 1:44:33Joe Rogan?

  Well, he's letting you know this motherfucker's coming, you know? And he's also like in a shell, very well protected. By having that one hand up like that and have that shoulder, he's got the chin blocked and then he's doing this with this hand. It's a very good defensive position, also very skillful because he's so good defensively in terms of his movement and the way he's able to roll with punches and get out of the way in time. But he never pokes in the eye, he's not doing that. Cyril Gahn has a habit of doing that.

• 1:45:01Speaker 01

  Why do you think that is?

• 1:45:03Joe Rogan?

  You could speculate. You could speculate all day long. You could say he wants to do it, you know? I mean, ask John. John's poked people in the eyes.

• 1:45:10Speaker 01

  He does it all the time.

• 1:45:11Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:45:11Speaker 01

  I mean, even if you would've took the points from him, he still would've won.

• 1:45:14Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. I know, it's just, it's one of those things. It's like, here's the problem. Why, why are the fingers out in the first place? Like, why don't they cover that shit up? Like, why don't they have it like one of those Everlast bag gloves?

• 1:45:28Speaker 01

  Mmm, okay. Where it's like a mitt, yeah.

• 1:45:30Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. I mean, have the thumb out, because you don't grapple with these anyway. You don't do this. You never do this. So why do, why do the fingers have to be loose? If you grapple, you're grappling like this or like this. Like, if you're clenching your hands together, you're, you're never clenching your hands together like this. You never interlace your fingers together. So why the fuck are they open in the first place, when it only causes problems? If they developed a, an MMA glove that covered the tips of the fingers, like, like a mittin', we would have way less problems with this shit. You'd occasionally probably have a thumb in the eye every now and again, but you would have at least eight less possibilities for each fight of things going into your eye.

• 1:46:09Speaker 01

  True.

• 1:46:10Joe Rogan?

  This, it just makes sense. And it wouldn't hinder grappling. You just have a, a thin piece of leather, leather that, you know, the padding goes over the knuckles, the piece of leather goes over the tip of the fingers, and have it come down like this, like a mittin', but it's not hard to design.

• 1:46:24Speaker 01

  If it was a mitt, and I'm, and I'm on top, and I grab wrist control, do you think the, the leather of the mitt sticks harder?

• 1:46:32Joe Rogan?

  Probably. Yeah, probably aid grappling. It'd probably make fights better. It'd probably do stuff, like you'd probably be able to get more takedowns, uh, maybe. I don't know, man. Maybe when the leather gets wet, maybe it becomes slippery like a finger. We'd, we'd have to find out, but at least we would have less eye pokes. And it's not gonna hinder the striking at all. There's no need to have these fingers exposed like this.

• 1:46:57Speaker 01

  No, there's no need, but two great fighters, I mean, accidents happen.

• 1:47:01Joe Rogan?

  Accidents happen and also purposeful fouls happen, you know, and I'm not saying that Cyril Gahn did it on purpose. But he's, he did it like five times in that fight. I rewatched that fight a couple of times and every time Aspinall came towards him, he was doing this. Every time, fingers outstretched, pointed towards the face. It's just, it's illegal. You're not supposed to ever do that. Your, your fist should always be balled up when it's moving towards your fight, your opponent's face. But we don't have to have these goddamn fingers covered like that or open like that. They should be covered. It's, it's not impossible to do. It's, it could be really easy to design a glove like that.

• 1:47:40Joe Rogan?

  I don't understand for the life of me how the sport's been around since 1993 and no one has introduced gloves like that.

• 1:47:48Speaker 01

  True. No, you're right. A really good thing I wanted to ask you is how, for someone new coming in to a sport that a lot of people know, how do you think they should bridge the, the popularity of the sport and also the real life of who the person is? I might be saying this in a hard way.

• 1:48:06Joe Rogan?

  No, I know what you're saying.

• 1:48:07Speaker 01

  Like, how do, how do you think they should, because you know, I, I've been around a lot of people. Um, but you know, like, it always gets bigger and always gets bigger. And how do you, how do you bridge that gap of keeping that same mind frame of like, man, you know, I'm the guy, but I need to reset. I always need to reset. I need to make sure.

• 1:48:25Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Well, it's gonna be dependent upon you, right? And it's gonna be a rocket ride that you're on. And the pressure and just the overall, like not being able to go to the mall is gonna be weird. You know, it's gonna get weird. It's, it'll get weird. You know, you're gonna get mobbed at the airport. It's gonna get weird. And, you know, you're gonna have to,

• 1:48:46Joe Rogan?

  you're gonna have to figure out a way to have your own private time. That's very important. When guys never have private time, they're always surrounded by people and there was, you could lose yourself. You could lose your way. And just fame itself. Fame itself is very complicated. It's very complicated for people, especially for fighters. When your entire identity relies on the way other people perceive you. That's not good. Mm-mm. It's, it feels good when you're on top because everybody's like, oh, there's Gable, he's the fucking man. Whoa, you're the man, you're the man. But if you rely on other people's opinions of you for your self-esteem and your self-worth, then the moment you have a stumble, you know, what if you get eye-poked, you know? Right. What if you get eye-poked and then also like, Gable's a bitch, Gable fuck, and you're like, what?

• 1:49:31Joe Rogan?

  Sir. What? And, and you're dealing with the opinions of morons and they're affecting your own feelings about yourself. And then there's all the other pressures that come with money and people trying to scam you and business deals and bullshit and this and that, and they want you to do movies and that kind of shit. You know, like, look, that's the, that's the, the bane of fighters' existence when Hollywood gets involved. That kind of, in a lot of ways, led to the decline of Ronda Rousey, in a lot of ways Conor McGregor. People start fucking, you know, throwing everything at you. You're doing cellphone commercials and all this different shit and that stuff gets in the way. Yeah.

• 1:50:11Joe Rogan?

  It gets in the way of your training, but it also gets in the way of your ability to have that deep-pressure time, to be yourself and to be alone with your thoughts, which I think is very important just to solidify your own, your own understanding of who you are as a human being. You know, and you, you don't want to be defined by other people's opinions and perceptions. And then there's also like, the UFC does a fantastic job of showing who a fighter really is. You know, the Countdown Series, um, you know, the UFC Embedded Series. So when, when they're doing stuff like that and you get to see this person.

• 1:50:51Joe Rogan?

  Interacting with their family, going through training camp, going through the weight cut and you get to see who they are, joking around with people, hanging out with their friends, laughing. That's important too, because people really wanna relate to you. You know, they don't want this guy who just appears, you know, every five months. You don't know shit about him and then all of a sudden there he is in the ring again and, you know, you're putting all these things on him and imagining what he's like. The more they can get to see behind the curtain, the better it is for you, especially if you're a good person and you're an interesting person and they get to see. It's also inspiring for people. They, like, you like to talk about yourself, like, you're a regular guy. You put your shoes on one foot at a time, like everybody else.

• 1:51:35Joe Rogan?

  But like, wow, look at the greatness this regular guy can accomplish. Maybe, maybe I can do this. Maybe I can do something like that. Maybe in, in whatever I'm doing in life, whatever, if I'm a fucking skier, I'm a, whatever. Whatever your job is. Maybe I can be great and be a, a normal person like this guy is.

• 1:51:54Speaker 01

  True. No, a hundred percent. Wow, that's a, that's a fantastic answer. Because, you know, I just feel like at some point I'll get to that spot. You know, of like, how do I, how do I know if someone's not real? How do I know if someone is in that, in that space of, of things changing? And, and there's leeches, there's, there's bad peo-, there's bad people. So, you know, it's always a nice thing to have someone of, that has surpassed that level, that you can finally see and be like, man, like, how did you?

• 1:52:18Joe Rogan?

  Well, John's a great guy to talk to about that. Obviously, John's had his stumbles and, which is, you know, when, when people talk about John and the, the things that John's got in trouble with, I'm like, listen. Do you want a wild motherfucker or not? Okay, if you want a guy to be the greatest of all time in fucking cage fighting, he's gonna be wild. That's one of the reasons why he's great. When John was, what is he, 22 years old when he won the title? He's fighting, 23. Mauricio Shogun Hua, who's an all-time great, pride legend, he opens the fight with a flying knee. Who does that? Who does? You gotta be wild. You gotta be a wild fella. That's John. I mean, and, you know, obviously there's stuff he shouldn't have done.

• 1:53:03Joe Rogan?

  There's, you know, a lot of, a lot of extracurricular activities, a lot of partying, it's not healthy, it's not good. But that is what comes with being that kind of a guy. And, you know, John could probably tell you.

• 1:53:19Joe Rogan?

  More about this than anybody that's ever lived. Like, what were the stumbles? What could I have done differently? And he probably could help prepare you more than anybody ever.

• 1:53:29Speaker 01

  Most definitely. He's already kind of put a big foot into it. And man, he's amazing with a lot of things now. You know, he talks so well now. A lot of things are in a sense of he's trying to look out for me in business opportunities and places that I need to go. And it's amazing. You know, a lot of people don't do that, especially when you see the peaks and valleys of that person and their public info also. And a lot of people don't want to give people the chance because you see something about someone until you finally meet them and it's like, man, like, this guy's a whole different person you would have never expected. And so, man, with John, he's just opened a lot of doors and kind of, he is doing that guiding of me.

• 1:54:05Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's great, too, because John is essentially guiding his replacement, you know, which is really hard for a lot of people to have that kind of self-awareness, know that there's only a certain amount of time that I can do this for. And I see this young, great man who's coming up and I'm going to help him and I'm going to give him some advice that maybe it would have been amazing if someone gave me. You know, because John didn't have some heavyweight champion training with him that could teach him those things.

• 1:54:29Speaker 01

  No, he started from scratch.

• 1:54:30Joe Rogan?

  Especially not someone at that level, the level that he's at.

• 1:54:33Speaker 01

  Man, I know he's honored. We're both honored.

• 1:54:35Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:54:36Speaker 01

  And he just, like I said, he called me today. He was just, man, I really think you should just let the world know who you are and just kind of give people the real feel of who you need to be.

• 1:54:45Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:54:45Speaker 01

  And I've always loved to have, like you just talked about, the UMC a bet is, you know, you see the real human being. And I've always liked people seeing a real human being because we all do shit the same way. There's nothing special. Some people just have more money. Some people just have more status. But at the end of the day, hopefully, we can all sleep in a bed. And I know some people don't, which is sad to see, but it's just, some people live different lives. And I want to live a life where it's happy and healthy with the people I have and I can meet so many people. And I feel like I'm doing a great job right now. So, man, any input I can get on how to be better, how to be more mature, how to be more sound, especially from John, I'm getting a lot, but to hear from you. You know, you get different perspectives of, you were in a different realm than John also, but you guys are also in the same place.

• 1:55:29Speaker 01

  Like, you do the podcast and John's semi-retired, but you see the two different lives of two different real respected people.

• 1:55:37Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's that mindset that you have to really want to acquire that information and really sort it out and know that these challenges are coming your way. The, the money and the fame and all that stuff is the thing that everybody focuses on. But really, the focus is on excellence. Excellence is what brings you the money. Excellence is what brings you the fame. And the moment you start thinking about the fame and the money and not thinking about the excellence, you've lost your way. You've lost your way. And a lot of people lose their way. A lot of people, that money and that fame, that, it starts coming and all of a sudden you're just thinking about numbers, you're thinking about the house you're gonna buy and the car you're gonna drive and all that stupid shit. And you lose your way.

• 1:56:19Joe Rogan?

  And, you know, one of the things that I always try to tell people, I, I try to tell those young comedians especially, is that, think of the attention that you have like it has a number value. Like the attention, like, let's imagine, like, if you had a hundred dollars, you know you can only spend a hundred dollars. Let's imagine your mind only has a hundred units of focus. You have a hundred units of focus. Any focus that you have on other shit outside of the thing that brings you excellence, is just robbing from excellence. That's all it is. And if you're concentrating on haters on social media, or if you got a crazy bitch in your life that's ruining everything, or you got some friend who's a hater and you think he's like, maybe like hoping you fail, like,

• 1:57:02Joe Rogan?

  all that stuff that's distracting and it's just robbing attention from excellence. You know? And some of it's unavoidable and some of it actually strengthens your resolve to have a certain amount of like, shit in your life, just to understand how to maintain and still be excellent despite of all that. There's probably some resilience building that comes from that. But, protect your focus. It's precious. Protect your time. Protect that energy that you have to invest in things. It's so precious. The, the, the mind, your focus and your drive, that is everything in your life. That's everything. And anything that steals from that.

• 1:57:48Joe Rogan?

  I remember this is one fighter. And he was a very good fighter that was fighting in pride and he had this crazy girlfriend. And every time he was gonna fight, like the day before the fight, the girl would start problems. And she would start fights and she'd scream, she'd left the hotel like one o'clock in the morning and went down to the bar. She wanted him to fail. She wanted to be more important than his fighting career. And his fighting career was so important and so overwhelming that she felt like she wasn't getting the attention that she needed. So she would go get attention from him and she would steal from him and it was crazy. And this guy, and he never wound up being a champion. He was a very talented guy too. I don't wanna say his name, but it was one of those things where it's like, man.

• 1:58:32Joe Rogan?

  There are people in your life, you gotta recognize when you're dealing with that kind of a person. You gotta recognize that. You gotta cut him out. You gotta get rid of him. They're stealing. They're stealing from your focus. They're stealing from your ability to create excellence. And that's what you're in the business of, you know? You're in the business of excellence. And anybody that's trying to steal from that, like those are liabilities. They're, you know, that's like you got a hole in the bottom of your boat. You gotta patch that shit up.

• 1:59:01Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, it's just like Mike Tyson kinda said, you know, once you're favored by God, you're also favored by the devil too.

• 1:59:06Joe Rogan?

  Ooh, that's so true too. Yeah, the temptations will come. Yeah. And then also you start believing your own bullshit, you know? I mean, look at John when he wasn't training, you know? But luckily for John, he was so much better than everybody in the division. That all it took was like a readjustment. Like the Dominic Reyes fight, he almost lost that fight, you know? And Dominic Reyes, as great as he was that night, should not have been beating Jon Jones. I think Jon Jones with like a real focus and a real like.

• 1:59:40Joe Rogan?

  Real drive towards destroying Dominic Reyes would be on another level.

• 1:59:45Speaker 01

  I think so too.

• 1:59:46Joe Rogan?

  It's like, he could, he could, he is the best guy to be in your corner, man. Because he's made all the mistakes and still come out the goat.

• 1:59:54Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:59:55Joe Rogan?

  Like, who better to tell you how to do it right?

• 1:59:57Speaker 01

  There's no one better. Man, probably the, the greatest, of course. The greatest by far.

• 2:00:01Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. What do you do for chill time? Like, what do you do to unwind?

• 2:00:05Speaker 01

  Um, honestly, right now, I like Call of Duty. I play a lot.

• 2:00:10Speaker 01

  I play a lot of Warzone. Um, Ronnie, Ronnie 2K, you know who that is?

• 2:00:13Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 2:00:14Speaker 01

  The dude that made the basketball game?

• 2:00:15Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 2:00:15Speaker 01

  He, I guess, so I got my own player on 2K. And it says, like, so when I load into the game, it says my real name, and then you're playing, people know you're playing against me.

• 2:00:23Joe Rogan?

  Oh.

• 2:00:24Speaker 01

  So, it's either I'm playing Call of Duty or 2K. I mentioned before, the French Bulldogs, I mean, I like to take care of French Bulldogs. I feel like, um...

• 2:00:31Joe Rogan?

  Jamie's got one.

• 2:00:32Speaker 01

  You do?

• 2:00:33Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Oh, he's so cute. You should have brought him today. You should have brought him, what?

• 2:00:36Speaker 01

  Uh, we didn't know. We didn't know you were into French Bulldogs. So, I had, um, sadly, I had two pass away. I had, I just had one pass away. He had IVDD in his neck.

• 2:00:44Joe Rogan?

  Oh.

• 2:00:45Speaker 01

  And that's a bad, um, it's, um, it's a disc disease that happens in French Bulldog because they're bred so bad.

• 2:00:51Joe Rogan?

  Oh.

• 2:00:51Speaker 01

  Um, and so, my, my first one had it in his back. He was playing all day, and then I turned and he was, like, paralyzed. In an instant, and I was like, oh, man, like, that's not good, so I had to put him down.

• 2:01:04Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that's horrible.

• 2:01:04Speaker 01

  And then I adopted one after. This is like, I adopted one a year ago. He just passed away a couple of weeks ago. Um, his name was Archie, my little guy. Um, he had it in his neck, and I had him on painkillers for like, six months.

• 2:01:16Joe Rogan?

  Oh.

• 2:01:16Speaker 01

  And I, and I looked, and then one day, he kind of rolled wrong, and he kind of yelped again, and I was like, we gotta take him in.

• 2:01:22Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that's horrible.

• 2:01:24Speaker 01

  So, it was bad, you know? I got, I got bad attachments to French Bulldogs. Like, they're like my...

• 2:01:28Joe Rogan?

  I hear ya.

• 2:01:29Speaker 01

  Since I'm having a real baby now, that's like my second baby.

• 2:01:32Joe Rogan?

  You're gonna be amazed how much you love your real baby more than you love your dogs. As much as I love my dogs, it just.

• 2:01:38Speaker 01

  That's just another level.

• 2:01:39Joe Rogan?

  Oh, it's beyond. Doesn't even compare. I my, one of my dogs went to surgery today. He had a hern- he had a hernia. I have a golden retriever and I have a King Charles Spaniel. He's the cutest little dog. He's so fucking cute. He's seven months old and he was born with a little hernia. It's like some of them get that little hernia in their tummy. So they had to stitch him up and but it's when I was playing with him last night, I was so scared. I was like, what if something happens to him? Like I can't, I can't take it, you know, because I love him so much. He's so sweet. He just like, when he, I pick him up, he like kisses me like constantly and he makes noise like.

• 2:02:23Joe Rogan?

  And sometimes he barks. While he's kissing you and you're like, I love you too, I love you too. And his little tail's wagging. He wags his tail with his whole body. Like his whole body's wagging.

• 2:02:31Speaker 01

  Wiggling all over.

• 2:02:32Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:02:32Speaker 01

  Mine would go after the ears.

• 2:02:34Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, he does that too.

• 2:02:34Speaker 01

  He would like, he would like. Put a whole nibble on the ear and then he would switch sides and then he would switch sides.

• 2:02:39Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, mine does that too.

• 2:02:40Speaker 01

  Let me live for a little bit. But we're, I'm the, I'm his whole world.

• 2:02:44Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:02:44Speaker 01

  And I feel like sometimes we forget that.

• 2:02:46Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, well, they're little love devices. They just, they just want love from you and they want to give you love. They never have bad days. They're, they're, they're never shitty. They're never in a bad mood. They're always cool. You know, every day is the same thing. Every day I see him in the morning, I'm like, good morning.

• 2:03:03Speaker 01

  And he's ready.

• 2:03:04Joe Rogan?

  And you just, I get on the ground with him on the carpet and roll around and kiss him. I love dogs. If, you know, if it was up to me, I'd have fifty dogs.

• 2:03:13Speaker 01

  I wish we could make them live longer.

• 2:03:14Joe Rogan?

  I know.

• 2:03:15Speaker 01

  Making them live longer would be crazy. Like, like cats are like twenty years. Why can't a dog be twenty years?

• 2:03:19Joe Rogan?

  Well, I think they are working on that. I think there's actual startups right now that are working on animal longevity.

• 2:03:27Speaker 01

  Which would be cool.

• 2:03:28Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, they're, they're working on different medical interventions that can allow dogs to live longer, which is fascinating. And then sometimes people, they clone their dogs.

• 2:03:38Speaker 01

  Tom Brady just did that.

• 2:03:39Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:03:40Speaker 01

  I don't know how he did it, but I mean.

• 2:03:42Joe Rogan?

  That's weird.

• 2:03:43Speaker 01

  Hey, have a good time.

• 2:03:44Joe Rogan?

  That's pet cemetery shit.

• 2:03:45Speaker 01

  That is. That might be a hereditary.

• 2:03:47Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I don't know if I'm into that.

• 2:03:49Speaker 01

  I don't know how I feel about that.

• 2:03:51Joe Rogan?

  I feel like every dog has their own unique personality. And as much as I love the dogs that I have now, like, like I had my dog Marshall. He's almost nine, uh, or he just turned nine, rather. Um, and I've had him since he was a puppy. I love him to death. But then I got this new dog Charlie and I love him to death too. He's a totally different personality like. I don't mind new dogs and new personalities. I don't need the same dog over and over and over again. You know what I mean? I think that's weird.

• 2:04:20Speaker 01

  You should try friends bulldog. They got like twelve different personalities.

• 2:04:22Joe Rogan?

  Oh, I love Carl. Jamie brings Carl in. He's, he's a little psycho.

• 2:04:26Speaker 01

  He's got too many personalities.

• 2:04:27Joe Rogan?

  Oh, he, he runs at you and just wants to play.

• 2:04:29Speaker 01

  They got that bowling ball head.

• 2:04:31Joe Rogan?

  I know. He's, he's a little ball of muscle too. Carl's jacked. Carl, Carl's got, he's built.

• 2:04:37Speaker 01

  I need to see a picture.

• 2:04:38Joe Rogan?

  You got pictures of him? Pull up a picture of Carl. He's adorable. He, uh, he plays with my golden and, uh, he just like throws himself like a meat missile at my golden. Cause my golden's like so gentle, which is great because the, you know, Charlie is only fifteen pounds. My little dog. And so my golden is like playing and he, he like gently puts a paw over him when they play. There's Carl. Look at that in her face. Look at that in her face.

• 2:05:05Speaker 01

  I just know he does everything extra.

• 2:05:07Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:05:08Speaker 01

  Oh, look at him sleep.

• 2:05:10Joe Rogan?

  He's really, he's, he's adorable. But when he plays with Marshall, it's really crazy. We got a video of him playing with Marshall.

• 2:05:16Speaker 01

  Did you get his nose done?

• 2:05:17Joe Rogan?

  Nope.

• 2:05:18Speaker 01

  No? He's just, wow, that's perfect.

• 2:05:19Speaker 04

  That's, he had a good nose.

• 2:05:20Speaker 01

  That's really good.

• 2:05:21Joe Rogan?

  Some of them have fucked up noses.

• 2:05:23Speaker 01

  Well, they come out, they come out like this.

• 2:05:25Joe Rogan?

  Oh, no.

• 2:05:25Speaker 01

  And then they can't breathe and so they breathe out their mouth and sometimes they gotta get.

• 2:05:29Speaker 04

  It's like solder.

• 2:05:30Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:05:30Speaker 04

  They clean that out like.

• 2:05:31Speaker 01

  They make like a bigger hole.

• 2:05:32Joe Rogan?

  That's awful.

• 2:05:33Speaker 01

  But some of them have it where like you have to go in and kinda help the, the, the esophagus because their face is flat. So you gotta help like the back and kinda cut it to where the, it can go down the pipe.

• 2:05:44Joe Rogan?

  Oh, no.

• 2:05:46Speaker 01

  Crazy. Crazy. I wish people, I wish those dogs could live forever. Those dogs got a million different characters.

• 2:05:51Joe Rogan?

  I know. Well, I love all kinds of dogs, man. I love working dogs. I love German Shepherds and Belgian Malinois and...

• 2:05:59Speaker 01

  Cayenne Corso be cool.

• 2:06:01Joe Rogan?

  They're a little dangerous.

• 2:06:02Speaker 01

  But that's what I'm hearing. They only lower to one person? Am I not mistaken?

• 2:06:05Joe Rogan?

  They don't like to listen. Yeah.

• 2:06:07Speaker 01

  Well, never mind.

• 2:06:08Joe Rogan?

  My boy Mark Delagrata, um, from Sityong, Sityotong Muay Thai, uh, he, uh, coached a lot of UFC fighters, coached Kenny Florian, great Muay Thai coach, great guy, works with the UFC. He had a Connie Corso, they had to put him down, bit his hand, like chomped down on him, yeah, and he had it for years.

• 2:06:27Speaker 01

  Out of nowhere?

• 2:06:28Joe Rogan?

  Well, you know, he was testing him. Like, sometimes those dogs, and not all of them, but some of them, they will test you. You know, and you just can't have a dog that's biting you.

• 2:06:37Speaker 01

  No, because what else is...

• 2:06:39Joe Rogan?

  What if it bites your kid?

• 2:06:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:06:40Joe Rogan?

  What if it bites your wife?

• 2:06:41Speaker 01

  Facts.

• 2:06:42Joe Rogan?

  What if it bites the mailman?

• 2:06:43Speaker 01

  You never know.

• 2:06:45Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, when, it's just like those, and it's not all of them. Like, I've had pit bulls and I never had a pit bull that wanted, even wanted to bite a person. They were always like the sweetest with people. But then you hear stories. You hear stories.

• 2:06:58Speaker 01

  Which is crazy.

• 2:06:59Joe Rogan?

  I know.

• 2:07:00Speaker 01

  Because how can I go online and see a pit bull just not letting go of somebody, but all of a sudden, the next video, I see a pit bull wearing, um, a Christmas sweater

• 2:07:07Joe Rogan?

  I know.

• 2:07:08Speaker 01

  with paw, um, shoes on.

• 2:07:10Joe Rogan?

  I know.

• 2:07:11Speaker 01

  So it's weird.

• 2:07:12Joe Rogan?

  I know. It's, it doesn't make any sense.

• 2:07:14Speaker 01

  It doesn't.

• 2:07:14Joe Rogan?

  But it's just like people. Some people are born crazy.

• 2:07:17Speaker 01

  Some people are born crazy.

• 2:07:19Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:07:19Speaker 01

  Are you big into anything like, um, what, what, what do you believe in conspiracy wise? Like, what's your big one, right?

• 2:07:26Joe Rogan?

  Don't open up that door, Gable. Don't open up that door.

• 2:07:29Speaker 01

  Oh, my God, y'all, if you gotta tell you this one.

• 2:07:30Joe Rogan?

  I love a good conspiracy.

• 2:07:31Speaker 01

  My dad, my dad's diehard conspiracy. If you and him had a talk?

• 2:07:35Joe Rogan?

  Uh-oh. What is his big one? What's the big one with him?

• 2:07:38Speaker 01

  I don't even know. But I know he's really, I think that the biggest one right now, um, he just said it, but I, I don't even know. I don't even wanna say it wrong. But that's my thing, but I'm big on conspiracies too.

• 2:07:50Joe Rogan?

  What is the subject? Do you remember the subject?

• 2:07:54Speaker 01

  Something about, I don't, I don't even wanna say it.

• 2:07:57Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 2:07:57Speaker 01

  I don't even wanna say it right now.

• 2:07:59Joe Rogan?

  Okay. We'll talk off air?

• 2:08:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:08:01Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 2:08:03Speaker 01

  But I believe there's a lot of things we don't know as people. And I believe there's a lot of messed up shit.

• 2:08:08Joe Rogan?

  A lot of conspiracies are real. That's the, that's the problem. The problem with conspiracy theories is some of them are crazy and ridiculous. But the reason why people entertain crazy and ridiculous ones is because some of them are real and they're so nuts that you go, "They did what?" When you, just when you find out about US history alone. You know, you find out that the reason why we got into Vietnam was...

• 2:08:29Speaker 01

  I don't know this, you can't tell me.

• 2:08:31Joe Rogan?

  Okay, it's called the Gulf of Tonkin Incident. The Gulf of Tonkin Incident was supposedly the North Vietnamese, the Vietcong attacked one of our ships. But it was fake. They faked it. It's not real. It's called a false flag. And they did it just to have a story so that we would have an excuse to invade Vietnam.

• 2:08:49Speaker 01

  So we sent all those people to Vietnam for nothing?

• 2:08:50Joe Rogan?

  A lot of people died for nothing. A lot of people died for nothing. And a lot of people made a lot of fucking money. And it probably had to do with drugs, too. Because that's, they were moving heroin out of Vietnam. I mean, there was, it was control of the heroin trade was a big part of it. There was also why one of... This episode is brought to you by The Farmer's Dog. Here's a fun fact. Research shows that dogs who maintain a healthy weight can live up to two and a half years longer on average than dogs who are overweight. Isn't that wild? And also kind of obvious at the same time? So why is feeding vague scoops of ultra-processed kibble still the status quo for most dog owners? Healthy alternatives exist, and trust me, I know. I buy one. The Farmer's Dog. I use it for both my dogs. They love it.

• 2:09:35Joe Rogan?

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• 2:10:17Joe Rogan?

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• 2:10:53Joe Rogan?

  The reasons why we were in Afghanistan. While we were in Afghanistan, heroin production in Afghanistan was 94% of the world's heroin.

• 2:11:01Speaker 01

  What does...

• 2:11:02Joe Rogan?

  And it ramped up after we invaded Afghanistan. It went up. Heroin production, not only did it go up, but we were guarding poppy fields for the Taliban.

• 2:11:12Speaker 01

  Why do we need to guard poppy fields?

• 2:11:13Joe Rogan?

  For the farmers, rather.

• 2:11:14Speaker 01

  Why do we need to guard them?

• 2:11:16Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's a really good question.

• 2:11:17Speaker 01

  Are we using them for medical here? Or are they just getting used to fuck people up?

• 2:11:21Joe Rogan?

  It was money. It's money. There's people... There's dirty money that gets moved around, for sure. When you're dealing with something like the drug trade, and billions of dollars are going all over the... People want a piece of that. And there's high-level people that are dirty. And they get involved in that, and they make decisions based on that. And they put people's lives at risk, and people die because of it. And that probably happened in Afghanistan, and definitely happened in Vietnam. And the people don't want to believe that. People are hearing this right now, "Oh, stop with that nonsense." But it's true. I mean, there's a video of Geraldo Rivera interviewing these military guys

• 2:12:03Joe Rogan?

  that were guarding poppy fields in Afghanistan. And the guy who's interviewing is very reluctant to talk about it, but it was on Fox News. And he had to talk about it, because everybody was aware of it. It was becoming a big conspiracy online. And they were coming up with some sort of irrational reason why they needed to guard their heroin production. Because, you know, "We need them to tell on the Taliban." And like, really? Really? So, we're letting the farmers poison young people and heroin addicts all over the world? Because we want them to give us information about... Is that really what's going on? Or are you motherfuckers making money out of this?

• 2:12:42Speaker 01

  They gotta be making a lot of money, too.

• 2:12:43Joe Rogan?

  A lot of money.

• 2:12:44Speaker 01

  A lot of money. Well, I just saw the story about that guy from, um... He was a football player from Australia. He was selling drugs. Um, what was that story? He was, um... He's not from Australia. He went to USC quarterback.

• 2:12:54Joe Rogan?

  He was selling drugs?

• 2:12:55Speaker 01

  He was selling drugs out of, um, an apartment in Australia for a cartel that was from Tijuana. Um... I forgot his name. It's his quarterback. I feel like a lot of people know it.

• 2:13:04Joe Rogan?

  This is a real, recent story?

• 2:13:05Speaker 01

  It's a real story.

• 2:13:06Joe Rogan?

  A recent story?

• 2:13:07Speaker 01

  I... From recent, from what I've seen, it might be older. It might be like a couple of years, um, older. But, yeah, he got caught because someone along the way was a middleman for a lot of...

• 2:13:18Joe Rogan?

  Wild true story behind cocaine quarterback, signal caller for the cartel. Wow.

• 2:13:24Speaker 01

  And they said he was making like a million dollars a day. And cash. And he... He was trying to move it through Las Vegas casinos. But the middleman, someone messed up the bet and he lost the money. So, he had a loan money from someone and that someone was... Was like an undercover waiting for him like a year later and caught him at a McDonald's before he went across the road to Tijuana or something. It's crazy, yo. You know, drugs control a lot of things. And it's messed up.

• 2:13:50Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's the money. When you think about how much money gets moved around in the drug game. And people get tempted by that. And then, you know, you get ahold of some legitimate businessman and you say, "Listen, there's a way for you to get 10x return on your money. You know, you invest in this and we do that. It's simple. You'll never get dirty. All the money goes to offshore accounts. No one will know about it. You could retire when you're 45."

• 2:14:16Speaker 01

  Crazy.

• 2:14:17Joe Rogan?

  And then people start getting roped in. And it's also, it's the excitement of doing something naughty. That's part of it, too. Some people just get... You know, like some people like to ride bulls. Some people like to do some shit they're not supposed to do. They get addicted to doing things that they are not supposed to do. They get addicted to the life. DEA agents. A lot of DEA agents become drug dealers.

• 2:14:39Speaker 01

  Well, it's just like that show, uh, Narcos Mexico.

• 2:14:42Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 2:14:42Speaker 01

  It's the same thing.

• 2:14:43Joe Rogan?

  Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Or Cocaine Cowboys. Have you ever watched that documentary?

• 2:14:49Speaker 01

  No. What's that about?

• 2:14:50Joe Rogan?

  Amazing. Cocaine Cowboys 1 and then there's Cocaine Cowboys 2. There was so much corruption in Miami during the 1980s, during the cocaine time, that one graduating class of the police academy, the entire graduating class either wound up murdered or in jail.

• 2:15:07Speaker 01

  How you do that?

• 2:15:08Joe Rogan?

  Because they were all corrupt. They were all involved in cocaine dealing, all of them, because there was so much money. Everybody's driving a Corvette, everybody's living large, everybody's doing blow and wearing diamonds.

• 2:15:19Speaker 01

  It's crazy.

• 2:15:20Joe Rogan?

  It's like you get caught up in that life. And if you're involved in, like, if you're a police officer and everybody around you is dirty, you know, like, it's more likely you're gonna be dirty too.

• 2:15:32Speaker 01

  Well, now, now, aren't they, aren't they kind of blowing the Ecuadorian ships up that are coming to here, that are having a lot of drugs on them?

• 2:15:39Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, Venezuela, right?

• 2:15:41Speaker 01

  Venezuelan ships.

• 2:15:41Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:15:42Speaker 01

  They're just blowing them up? I don't even know, I'm not, I'm not educated on stuff like that, but I wonder if it's for to keep the trade here?

• 2:15:50Joe Rogan?

  No, I doubt it. I think more likely what it is is because Trump genuinely hates that they're bringing drugs into this country. Is there other things involved too? I don't know. I mean, I'm, I'm sure some of it has to do perhaps with, uh, politics. I mean, I think that's a reasonable assumption. But Jamie, I just sent you something. Here's what's interesting. One of the things that Trump was saying is they're poisoning our, our kids and that 100,000 people are dying every year from drug overdoses. We have to put a stop to this.

• 2:16:23Joe Rogan?

  From the time Trump's been in office, deaths by overdose have dropped off a cliff. Look at that. Look at 2024. And leading into 2025. Look at, these are all deaths from overdoses. I mean, that's kind of crazy. Like, look at that. From all drugs, which is the top one, look at that drop. I mean, that's crazy. So you see the peak in, um, was in 2022, or it looks like actually 2020, between 2023 and 2024. That's the peak where people are dying. And then from the time Trump's in office, it's taking a fucking sharp downturn.

• 2:17:05Joe Rogan?

  And why is that? Well, part of it is because they're blowing up these fucking boats that are bringing in all the drugs. And not just drugs, but drugs that are tainted with fentanyl.

• 2:17:15Speaker 01

  Fentanyl is terrible.

• 2:17:16Joe Rogan?

  Terrible.

• 2:17:16Speaker 01

  Because a little piece can kill you.

• 2:17:18Joe Rogan?

  Exactly. It's smaller than a penny and you're dead.

• 2:17:21Speaker 01

  And people are snorting lines of it.

• 2:17:23Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm, and they don't even know what's in there. And the cartel, they're, they're buying, you know, they're taking shitty drugs and mixing it with fentanyl so it has an effect.

• 2:17:31Speaker 01

  It's crazy.

• 2:17:32Joe Rogan?

  And people are getting it from what they think is a Xanax, and it's not a Xanax, it's fake. And it's got fentanyl in it and they're dying from that. They're dying from coke that they think it's coke and fentanyl's in that. It, you know, it's horrible.

• 2:17:46Speaker 01

  There's so much access to things in this world right now that I feel like is, uh, there's, there's so many attainable things that, that people don't even think about that. A lot of shit happens in this world that we just have no clue. And it's kind of weird. And I just don't know, like, kind of the, the variety that I'm bringing to the combo, but, um, I'm just saying it like out of, just to say it, but it, it, it's different. Just like a social media, you can meet so many people and, and, and just going to random places and meeting people and then you can get roped up in the wrong things. And it's just the downhill of, the downhill starts.

• 2:18:17Joe Rogan?

  Yep. You take a bad turn and next thing you know, you're on a bad road and you keep going. You're like, eventually I'm going to get out of this game.

• 2:18:23Speaker 01

  You can't.

• 2:18:24Joe Rogan?

  No, then you're in jail or you're dead. Um, Ed Calderon is a guy who's been on this podcast many times. He used to work for the Mexican military. Now he's an American citizen, but he's a cartel expert. And, you know, the stories that he's told us about the fucking cartel and the amount of money they have. I mean, they essentially, they have giant military operations. It's all cartel. The, the cart, and they go to war with each other. It's crazy.

• 2:18:48Speaker 01

  Who's the, is it Pablo Escobar that had the money in the walls of his house?

• 2:18:53Joe Rogan?

  I mean, probably. I don't know.

• 2:18:54Speaker 01

  Or who died and he buried it all over in different places?

• 2:18:57Joe Rogan?

  I'm sure they all do that. I'm sure Escobar did that. They, I think they all do that. They probably, they have so much. That was one of the things of Cocaine Cowboys, was, uh, this pilot, they had millions of dollars buried in his backyard. He would just take garbage bags, fill it with millions of dollars of cash, dig a big hole in the backyard and bury it there because he couldn't bring it into a bank.

• 2:19:16Speaker 01

  Why not just give it away?

• 2:19:18Joe Rogan?

  Oh, fuck give it away. Cause they're doing coke and they want more money. They just don't know what to do with it, you know? And they can't just have it all laying around their house and someone will break into their house and kill them and take their money. It's like.

• 2:19:28Speaker 01

  Then it's over with.

• 2:19:29Joe Rogan?

  It is a crazy game, but I can't recommend that documentary enough. Cocaine Cowboys.

• 2:19:34Speaker 01

  Cocaine Cowboys.

• 2:19:35Joe Rogan?

  You'll watch it. You go, what the fuck?

• 2:19:37Speaker 01

  Where's it streamed at?

• 2:19:38Joe Rogan?

  Uh, it's probably on everywhere. Um, where is Cocaine Cowboys? Can you get it?

• 2:19:42Speaker 01

  Sounds like an Amazon.

• 2:19:43Joe Rogan?

  I'm sure it's on everything. It might even be on Netflix, but it's, it's incredible because you realize like, wow, like cocaine built Miami. Miami had more banks per capita. I don't know if it still does, but at one point in time, more banks per capita than any other city in the country. And it's because those banks were laundering money.

• 2:20:01Speaker 01

  Damn.

• 2:20:02Joe Rogan?

  They were laundering cocaine money. It was all coming in.

• 2:20:05Speaker 01

  And Miami never sleeps either. So it was all night affair.

• 2:20:09Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that is a crazy fucking town. That's, that is not a good town if you want to be a fighter and live like a low-key disciplined life. No.

• 2:20:17Speaker 01

  You can, all of a sudden you're here, then you end up here, then all of a sudden it's 8 a.m.

• 2:20:21Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:20:21Speaker 01

  You're at the beach at 12.

• 2:20:23Joe Rogan?

  Uh huh.

• 2:20:23Speaker 01

  Can't be right.

• 2:20:24Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 2:20:25Speaker 01

  Can't be right. That's a dark hole that a lot of people should not be in, but how do you get out though?

• 2:20:30Joe Rogan?

  I don't know. Ask John.

• 2:20:34Joe Rogan?

  I mean, he seems to have navigated those waters better than anybody, you know, because usually it ruins everything in your life. He's obviously had some missteps, but still comes out the greatest, you know, which is not everybody's path, you know? But obviously John is smart in that he spends a lot of time doing the things that he wants to do. Spends a lot of time training his dog, doing, you know, tactical stuff. He's always shooting guns and training and, you know? You gotta have things outside of that life, you know, that you, you enjoy other than just partying.

• 2:21:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, you gotta have fun. You gotta have some type of, of gap and.

• 2:21:08Joe Rogan?

  Some release.

• 2:21:09Speaker 01

  Yeah. And he's got a, he's got a good release and he's got a good mentality of, of what the release should be and how it should go and, and where he needs to go with it. And then, I mean, I've been with him now since we have this close connection. I've been with him to, to places and he's always, he's always kept me on a straight path and, which is really, really nice. You know, a lot of people that that may have, you know, like to like to take shots or like to do something like that. You know, there's always a little, man, do you want one?

• 2:21:34Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:21:34Speaker 01

  But there's never, there's never been a time where he's like, man, I think you should try. And it's great because as, as, as an older, as a younger kid that's coming up, he sees the potential. And that's all that matters. And I just need someone to see it. And man, he's been great with it, for sure.

• 2:21:47Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. When you're around a bunch of people that party and they drag you into that world, it's so easy for people to get hooked. It's so easy for people to just get roped into that lifestyle. Because people essentially, for the most part, imitate their atmosphere. And if you're around that kind of an atmosphere, those are the type of people that you're with. And those are the type of thrills that they're seeking. You can get caught up in that.

• 2:22:09Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 2:22:10Joe Rogan?

  You know, and it's, it's the bane of every fighter's existence, is women and partying.

• 2:22:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, he's always been like, hey, you gotta stay, you gotta stay clean, go home.

• 2:22:18Joe Rogan?

  Mm hmm.

• 2:22:19Speaker 01

  And that's been the best part about it.

• 2:22:20Joe Rogan?

  That's great, man. That is fucking great. So what is the timeline right now? Are, have you signed a deal with the UFC? Are they, I know they're talking to you. What's going on?

• 2:22:29Speaker 01

  They, they've reached out many times, but I told them, just, I'm kind of on the lines of right now, I'm waiting for my, my little girl to, to give, my, my baby girl to give, to come out. Um, so January is kind of a dead month for me.

• 2:22:40Joe Rogan?

  But are you signed with the UFC?

• 2:22:42Speaker 01

  No.

• 2:22:42Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 2:22:43Speaker 01

  I'm not, I'm not signing anybody.

• 2:22:44Joe Rogan?

  But have they offered you a fight yet?

• 2:22:46Speaker 01

  Um, yeah, they've reached out about a couple of things, but no one specific. They just offered dates.

• 2:22:50Joe Rogan?

  Do you want to have fights in other organizations first? The, one of the problems with a guy like you is that you're so talented that you could have one, two fights in the UFC and all of a sudden be fighting a top contender. You know, which I think you would do well.

• 2:23:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, I would like to.

• 2:23:03Joe Rogan?

  But if I was a manager of like a boxer and a guy with your potential, I would do what Customano did with Mike Tyson. You have him fight a bunch of different guys like you did with Dirty Boxing, small organization MMA fights. Build up those skills, get, get a lot of experience while you're constantly training and growing and getting better. And then, once you enter into the UFC, you're essentially already the champion. There's just nobody knows it yet.

• 2:23:28Speaker 01

  I would really like to debut at the White House.

• 2:23:30Joe Rogan?

  Debut?

• 2:23:31Speaker 01

  I would like to debut at the White House. I would like to do, I would like to do one or two more fights before then, and then. If I can sign, do a big release, hey, he signed, good job, and then debut at the White House. That's my perfect world.

• 2:23:45Joe Rogan?

  Is it hard to get fights right now?

• 2:23:48Speaker 01

  I, maybe a little, maybe a little, I don't ask, I just say yes, and then just keep moving. I kind of leave it up to, to John to kind of watch the people and, and all the coaches to kind of watch and see, see what goes on, but, I mean, if a guy says no, there's, there's no hard feelings. I mean, just keep it pushing and hopefully I can get to the guy that says yes.

• 2:24:05Joe Rogan?

  That's the problem is that when a guy gets so much hype around him, there's a lot of guys who want to eventually be a world champion and go, ah, I'm not ready for this guy yet. You know, and it's like even good guys, or say like, ah, this guy's not, he's, he's on another level right now.

• 2:24:22Speaker 01

  But just, just when, if they do think that, just whenever you think you are ready, I will be there, waiting.

• 2:24:30Joe Rogan?

  That's terrifying.

• 2:24:33Speaker 01

  I will be there waiting.

• 2:24:34Joe Rogan?

  The way he said that's terrifying. A lot of people heard that, like, I don't want to wait, fuck this.

• 2:24:38Speaker 01

  I don't want to wait.

• 2:24:39Joe Rogan?

  Fuck this him out.

• 2:24:40Speaker 01

  I, I, 100%.

• 2:24:41Joe Rogan?

  But also, the smart move might be to get a hold of you now, before you get better.

• 2:24:45Speaker 01

  You can try now, too.

• 2:24:48Joe Rogan?

  But you know what I'm saying?

• 2:24:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:24:50Joe Rogan?

  You know what I'm saying? I mean, like, pick your poison.

• 2:24:53Speaker 01

  I mean, like I said, dirty boxing, and, and that last fight in November with that double leg, that's the worst I'll ever be. And it's, it's kind of neat to, to, to repeat that to the world, to kind of let them get a refresher. That is the worst Gabe Seifson will be, and the best is when he'll come back his next time. But after that, that's the last worst I'll ever be after that, so.

• 2:25:11Joe Rogan?

  Do you have a blueprint, like, a, a map of where, what you'd like to accomplish in your career?

• 2:25:16Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:25:16Joe Rogan?

  Long term?

• 2:25:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, long, long term, I'd like to be champion, UFC champion. Um, I think, uh, Stipe has about five defenses, if I'm not mistaken. I would like to do, I would like to try to, try to beat that record if I can. Um, and if I can't, try, die trying, you know? Um, I would like to, I played in NFL, I won the Olympics. I would just like to be just an overall good man. You know, a lot of people want to look at, like we just talked about, you know, a lot of people want to look at the success, the money. I just want to be excellent man. You know what I'm saying? I want to look back and be like, damn, like, Gable did that. And I saw Dana White, he had a picture, and he said, um, let your last name be the reason that people remember you. And I want the Stevenson last name to be something that people remember. And I want them to look at me and be like, damn, like, through the peaks and valleys,

• 2:26:01Speaker 01

  Gable stood up and, and he became someone in his life. And he provided for his family and he went home healthy. And, and that's what I want. Championship's gonna come, but I feel like a lot of people are so obsessed with, I gotta do this, but I'm obsessed with being the best version of Gable, because I'm the, if I'm the best version of Gable, you're not gonna be able to beat me.

• 2:26:21Joe Rogan?

  Keep that mindset and you will accomplish these things, my man.

• 2:26:23Speaker 01

  Man, I appreciate it.

• 2:26:24Joe Rogan?

  I believe it.

• 2:26:24Speaker 01

  Well, I appreciate it.

• 2:26:25Joe Rogan?

  Thank you very much for being here.

• 2:26:26Speaker 01

  Yes, you are, Dino.

• 2:26:26Joe Rogan?

  It's a pleasure.

• 2:26:27Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 2:26:28Joe Rogan?

  And I can't wait to see you fight in the UFC.

• 2:26:29Speaker 01

  Man, I can't wait either.

• 2:26:30Joe Rogan?

  It's gonna be fun.

• 2:26:30Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 2:26:31Joe Rogan?

  All right. Thank you. Bye, everybody.