#2514 - Cameron Hanes

Cameron Hanes is a bowhunter, outdoorsman, endurance athlete, author, and host of the podcasts “Keep Hammering Collective,” “Sh*t Talkers Weekly,” and “Lift. Run. Shoot.” His most recent book is “Undeniable: How to Reach the Top and Stay There.”www.youtube.com/@cameronhaneshttps://us.macmillan.com/books/9781250365941/undeniable/www.cameronhanes.com Perplexity: Download the app or ask Perplexity anything at https://pplx.ai/rogan. Don’t miss out on all the action this week at DraftKings! Download the DraftKings app today! Sign-up using https://dkng.co/rogan or through my promo code ROGAN. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  The Joe Rogan Experience.

• 0:05Joe Rogan?

  Training by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day.

• 0:12Joe Rogan?

  We don't care what happens. We can use headphones or no, we don't need them.

• 0:15Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 0:15Joe Rogan?

  We don't.

• 0:16Speaker 02

  Whatever you think.

• 0:17Joe Rogan?

  We have to wear your sweet hat. I don't want to fuck it up.

• 0:19Speaker 02

  There you go.

• 0:19Joe Rogan?

  Just got it. Look, we got an American flag, we got a skull, we got camo. What the fuck else do you want? Are you American or not?

• 0:26Speaker 02

  Look at this.

• 0:26Joe Rogan?

  Oh, nice dude. You're all in for 250, the 250th anniversary.

• 0:32Speaker 02

  It's also the only socks I brought on this trip somehow, so I wear them every day now.

• 0:36Joe Rogan?

  You only brought one pair or one style?

• 0:38Speaker 02

  No, one pair of socks and no underwear.

• 0:40Joe Rogan?

  Oh god, I've done that before. We have to wash your socks in the sink with shampoo, with hotel shampoo.

• 0:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 0:47Joe Rogan?

  And then wear them when they're wet.

• 0:48Speaker 02

  And this, like, I went on a run here, it is muggy.

• 0:51Joe Rogan?

  Oh yeah, baby.

• 0:52Speaker 02

  I sweated my ass off.

• 0:53Joe Rogan?

  That's the fear of this weekend at the UFC.

• 0:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 0:56Joe Rogan?

  Because it's east coast, it gets very muggy.

• 0:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, for sure.

• 1:00Joe Rogan?

  And DC, so these guys are all working out outside right now. I saw a video of Amon Zahabi working out outside, and Ilija Toporia is working out outside, and, you know, you have to feel that, that heavy, heavy air.

• 1:13Speaker 02

  Air. It changes things.

• 1:14Joe Rogan?

  Oh yeah, man. I remember when I was a kid, I went to the Olympic Training Center in Colorado Springs.

• 1:20Speaker 02

  I see those thunderstorms, dude.

• 1:22Joe Rogan?

  Oh yeah, we're fucked.

• 1:22Speaker 02

  Fuck.

• 1:23Joe Rogan?

  There is a canopy that's over the cage. They put a canopy over the cage.

• 1:28Speaker 02

  Well, if lightning hits that, that's not good.

• 1:30Joe Rogan?

  Well, if it hits the canopy, I think we're okay.

• 1:32Speaker 02

  I mean...

• 1:33Joe Rogan?

  I think I'm more worried about a terrorist attack than I am fucking lightning.

• 1:37Speaker 02

  No, that's true.

• 1:38Joe Rogan?

  But I probably should be more worried about lightning. I actually have friends that have been hit by light, we do. Remy, Remy got hit by lightning.

• 1:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, for sure.

• 1:45Joe Rogan?

  So I know, I don't know anybody's been hit by a terrorist attack.

• 1:51Joe Rogan?

  By lightning?

• 1:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, we had the craziest storms here, you know?

• 1:54Joe Rogan?

  You playing golf?

• 1:55Speaker 03

  No, but I was outside.

• 1:56Joe Rogan?

  Thank you.

• 1:56Speaker 03

  I thought the storm was over and I was out on my balcony and I was like, wow, this is cool.

• 2:00Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that's a good spot to be.

• 2:01Speaker 03

  One hit, I'm 500 feet in the sky, I'm already up there. And then it hit and I started hearing sizzling near me. I'm like, holy shit, I gotta get inside.

• 2:09Joe Rogan?

  Like electricity sizzling?

• 2:11Speaker 03

  What the fuck is that? Where is it sizzling?

• 2:13Joe Rogan?

  Oh my god, that's so scary. That's such a fucked up way to go. Do you ever see that one video where the guy is walking down the street and he gets hit by lightning? He wakes up, walks down the street a little bit further, he's recovering and he gets hit again? Dude got hit by lightning twice. And like, I don't know if it's time lapse or what, I don't know how long he was out for. Cause it's like one of those Ring cams that catches him. This guy got fucking cooked twice.

• 2:35Speaker 02

  You know you're having a bad day.

• 2:36Joe Rogan?

  I forget what Remy said happened to him after he got hit, but I remember his hearing was fucked up for a long time or something. Something like that?

• 2:44Speaker 02

  Yeah. We, I was, we do the mountains back home, like Runham, and there's, we were up on Diamond Peak, me and Tanner, last year. And a storm, you know, kind of like the weather report, like having some clouds or whatever, it wasn't supposed to be thunderstorms, but you could hear kind of growling. And you're like, God, is that coming this way? And it doesn't have to be that close. I mean, I think, I think lightning can hit from 10 miles away.

• 3:09Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 3:09Speaker 02

  Yes, it can go, it can go sideways. So anyway, if you see that building, you should get off the top of a mountain, right? Well, me and Tanner, we're up there and we're still wanting to get to summit and then bomb off. Well, we're up there and he goes, he goes, dad, he goes, watch. And he had, we had trekking poles and he had them like this and they're, they're like ticking, like.

• 3:31Joe Rogan?

  From electricity in the air?

• 3:32Speaker 02

  Electricity was in his trekking poles. Then we, I said, let's get the fuck off this thing. And so we bombed off and there's these kids down that were like, they said, should we go up? And I said, I'd wait a little bit. And the girl's hair was standing up.

• 3:46Joe Rogan?

  Oh my god. Oh my god, that's so crazy.

• 3:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, it is nuts.

• 3:52Joe Rogan?

  Fuck that!

• 3:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, so they.

• 3:54Speaker 03

  This guy died in Florida last year in what they call blue sky lightning.

• 3:58Joe Rogan?

  What?

• 3:59Speaker 03

  Yeah, it can, it jumped from several miles away.

• 4:03Joe Rogan?

  He just stand on the beach, it was a blue sky above, storm is near them.

• 4:07Speaker 02

  And I think it can go, I know I looked it up after that, cuz I was like, well, I need to know, I'm in the mountains all the time.

• 4:14Joe Rogan?

  His death nonetheless serves as a grim reminder, Florida led the US in both lightning fatalities, 12, and strikes per square mile, 76. Holy shit. By the way, did you see that guy in Florida that, uh, he was running from the cops and he got killed by an alligator?

• 4:30Speaker 02

  No.

• 4:30Joe Rogan?

  Did you see that one?

• 4:31Speaker 02

  Uh-uh.

• 4:31Joe Rogan?

  Dude, it's body cam footage. The cops got the gun out. And he's, he's like, "Stop, stop, stop." The guy's running, he's going in the water, and all of a sudden, boom. Like, right-

• 4:43Speaker 02

  I'd rather get shot.

• 4:43Joe Rogan?

  I'd rather get shot. I'd rather get shot than killed by a fucking dinosaur.

• 4:47Speaker 02

  Oh my god.

• 4:48Joe Rogan?

  If you get shot, you get, the bullet's gonna hurt like fuck. You're gonna be in shock, you're gonna realize you're bleeding out, you're gonna have to say, "I wish I was a better person, I'm gonna miss my family." But, that fucking alligator's gonna take a while to kill you. It's gonna roll with you, it's gonna drag you under the water. You're gonna realize you can't get free, you're gonna try to poke its eyes, it's not gonna work. Fuck.

• 5:11Speaker 02

  It's gonna be a miserable existence till it's over.

• 5:13Joe Rogan?

  Did you see that one video of a dude, he got attacked by an alligator, uh, lost his arm, so it bit his fucking arm off, and he made his way back home. So he, they're, they're, like, talking to him, like, right when he got out of the swamp, and he got one arm. And he, he looked like, there's not a chance in hell he was sober during any of this experience. He looked like he had been methed up since the fucking 12th grade.

• 5:37Speaker 02

  Oh my god.

• 5:39Joe Rogan?

  This dude, yeah, this is the dude.

• 5:42Joe Rogan?

  He just fucking lost his stump.

• 5:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's where I was-

• 5:46Joe Rogan?

  He wanted for three fucking days with one arm.

• 5:48Speaker 02

  Oh my god.

• 5:49Joe Rogan?

  Well, first of all, how do you not bleed out?

• 5:51Speaker 02

  I know, dude, I was just gonna say, did he keep pressure on that thing?

• 5:57Joe Rogan?

  What was he saying?

• 5:58Speaker 04

  On my right hand side, so I went to swim and she got, she got my forearm, so I grabbed her like this. And like she's trying to roll, but she snapped her head, so, so my arm went backwards like this completely.

• 6:11Speaker 05

  He says he fought for his life.

• 6:13Speaker 04

  And she drug me under three times.

• 6:15Joe Rogan?

  I like how the area comes in so important. He says he fought for his life. I can't imagine them in an editing bay. Should I do that again? Is that good?

• 6:23Speaker 02

  I know.

• 6:24Joe Rogan?

  He says he fought for his life.

• 6:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, we got that part with the no arm. We, I went ahead and assumed that.

• 6:31Joe Rogan?

  He fucking wandered through alligator and snake infested swamp for three fucking days.

• 6:38Speaker 02

  Thanks for telling us what we need to be believing here.

• 6:41Joe Rogan?

  You know, when I went alligator hunting out there a few years ago, you know, that alligator that we shot that's in the front? Bro, they're everywhere.

• 6:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 6:49Joe Rogan?

  If you ever want to come, it's really fun.

• 6:51Speaker 02

  I'd like to.

• 6:51Joe Rogan?

  I know you don't do much hunting outside of bow hunting.

• 6:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 6:54Joe Rogan?

  But they need to be killed. They're, they're vastly overpopulated.

• 6:58Speaker 02

  But you can't do a bow?

• 6:59Joe Rogan?

  You can, but it's.

• 7:00Speaker 02

  Yeah. Well, that's like everything.

• 7:03Joe Rogan?

  It's pretty sketchy, but this, this, you know, I know Douglas killed alligators with a bow in Florida.

• 7:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 7:09Joe Rogan?

  You, you just gotta catch them in the right spot. You gotta basically hit them like right behind the head.

• 7:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 7:13Joe Rogan?

  I think you'd probably hit them with a fixed blade, right?

• 7:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, for sure.

• 7:17Joe Rogan?

  There's an iron will or something.

• 7:18Speaker 02

  There's, you gotta brain them.

• 7:19Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 7:20Speaker 02

  So there's like that bump back there, then it's like halfway in between the eye and the bump, something like that.

• 7:24Joe Rogan?

  So you want to be like 20 yards.

• 7:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's gotta be close.

• 7:26Joe Rogan?

  Fucking exit right in there.

• 7:28Speaker 02

  For sure. The good thing about that, if you fuck up and it's kind of ricocheted, it's gonna be fine. You know what I mean?

• 7:34Joe Rogan?

  Right, literally.

• 7:35Speaker 02

  It's not making, if you go for the lungs and miss, hit it in the stomach, that's not good. It's gonna be pretty sick and miserable death, but.

• 7:42Joe Rogan?

  It'd probably still live. Those fucking things are such monsters. They're such monsters.

• 7:46Speaker 02

  I was saying, you know, we've killed bear, uh, upper, Kip killed a bear up at the rivets with three legs.

• 7:52Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 7:53Speaker 02

  And I'm just like, how?

• 7:54Joe Rogan?

  One of them will eat the other one's leg. They'll bite their fucking legs off.

• 7:58Speaker 02

  But like, how do you, you know?

• 7:59Joe Rogan?

  How do you survive?

• 8:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, we have to get antibiotics for like a hangnail.

• 8:04Joe Rogan?

  I think our, uh, whole biome is probably all fucked up from washing it all the time.

• 8:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, probably.

• 8:12Joe Rogan?

  I mean, it completely makes sense, right?

• 8:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 8:15Joe Rogan?

  Animals don't seem to get a whole lot of infections like we do unless they're farm animals.

• 8:20Speaker 02

  Right.

• 8:20Joe Rogan?

  Or like occasionally, it happens all the time in the rut, right? Like when you're dressing an animal, you find all these holes in the side of it where they're like pussy. I remember one time, one of the elk that we shot at Tahone had his back leg was just filled with pus. Like the whole back, it was all pus because he had gotten stabbed.

• 8:39Speaker 02

  It's usually in that back because usually they turn because they know they're getting their ass kicked. And so it's in their hind quarter. It's like the dominant bull gets a jab in before they go.

• 8:48Joe Rogan?

  And you've seen those Tahone bulls, those 1100 pound fuckers. Imagine one of those stabbing you in the head.

• 8:54Speaker 02

  No. And also if you see antlers there that are broke because they're so heavy.

• 9:00Joe Rogan?

  Uh huh.

• 9:00Speaker 02

  Like there's, that bone is so thick for their antlers. If a bull's break, imagine the force required to break that.

• 9:07Joe Rogan?

  And imagine that going right up your ass.

• 9:11Speaker 06

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• 10:11Joe Rogan?

  Episode is brought to you by the mosquito bowl. Here's a story that's pretty incredible. After Pearl Harbor, four of the best college football players in America walk away from promising NFL careers to enlist in the Marines and fight in World War II. And the craziest part, it's a true story. These guys had their whole lives ahead of them, but traded the glory of the gridiron for the brutal reality of combat where the stakes were life and death. Directed by Peter Berg, the guy behind Friday Night Lights and starring Nicholas Galatzin, Bill Skarsgård, Ray Nicholson, and Tom Francis. The Mosquito Bowl in theaters October 30th. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp.

• 10:54Joe Rogan?

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• 11:37Joe Rogan?

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• 11:50Speaker 02

  God, for my camera guy, that'd be a dream. But for most of us, no.

• 11:57Joe Rogan?

  They find them, you know, with these holes in them. Like when, when you shoot them and you find out like what they've been through, like no wonder why they barely moved when they got hit with an arrow.

• 12:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 12:07Joe Rogan?

  They probably didn't even know, like when two bulls are fighting and then one of them gets hit with an arrow, they barely react.

• 12:12Speaker 02

  No, that'd be like, what? That was that? Fly landed on me?

• 12:15Joe Rogan?

  Crazy. They're just so, just locked into war.

• 12:19Speaker 02

  Especially if you like get in between the ribs and don't hit anything.

• 12:23Joe Rogan?

  Right, just slices right through.

• 12:25Speaker 02

  Just like that bull would be like, ow! Wait, what?

• 12:27Joe Rogan?

  What was that? Nothing?

• 12:28Speaker 02

  And all of a sudden, woo, I'm feeling woozy.

• 12:30Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 12:30Speaker 02

  Then it's over.

• 12:31Joe Rogan?

  Did you find that video? See if you can find the video of the guy with the body cam footage getting killed by the alligator.

• 12:40Joe Rogan?

  You can see it a little bit, though. I just think it's exciting.

• 12:45Joe Rogan?

  It's just.

• 12:45Speaker 02

  You love watching chaos on online.

• 12:48Joe Rogan?

  I don't know why, but I do. Put the headphones on there, see what. I like the music.

• 12:54Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 12:56Joe Rogan?

  So here it is. The cop's got his gun out. This isn't a very good, yeah. See, the cop's got his gun out and he's like trying to think of what to do and this dude's getting jacked.

• 13:05Speaker 02

  Oh, there goes the alligator to him. Whoo, shit.

• 13:08Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 13:10Speaker 02

  Oh, did you see that line of the?

• 13:12Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, back that up a little bit so you can see it. So the dude's trying to swim away. And look at the alligator. Boom! That's a wrap, son.

• 13:19Speaker 02

  Did he put his hands up?

• 13:21Joe Rogan?

  I don't think so. I think he just, so.

• 13:24Speaker 02

  Like right there?

• 13:24Joe Rogan?

  Back it up a little bit more. So you see the guy swimming away. What's that?

• 13:28Speaker 03

  It's a different version.

• 13:31Joe Rogan?

  Another same lady narrating.

• 13:32Speaker 00

  That's when the gator slammed right towards him.

• 13:36Joe Rogan?

  And the gator bit him in both of his arms. I mean, it was a full-on attack.

• 13:43Joe Rogan?

  It was a full-on attack, like as if what, halfway attack? No, they were fine. It's a fucking dinosaur.

• 13:51Joe Rogan?

  There was another story in Florida a few years back where a guy was running from the cops. I think it was a high-speed chase, gets to a bridge, stops the car, throws it in park, jumps off the bridge. Boom, alligator gets him. Literally like landed right on a fucking alligator. But that's the reality of the water. All the fresh water in Florida is filled with alligators. They have to check Disneyland all the time, or Disney World. They have to check it all the time. Remember a little kid got killed there a few years ago? Imagine you take your kid to fucking Disney World and it gets killed by a dinosaur?

• 14:26Speaker 02

  Rough. Whoa, and also it's like, you know how, I don't know, you have dogs, but are they ever around when you're eating? And like something falls on the ground? They're always checking the ground? Well, that's what alligators do in the water. They're just sitting there just chilling out. They hear a little splash, they're like, oh, like a dog, was that a crumb hitting the floor at the dinner table? So they're just over there and they'll just eat whatever hit the water.

• 14:51Joe Rogan?

  Especially if something seems like it's struggling.

• 14:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 14:53Joe Rogan?

  And they're such opportunists.

• 14:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, they're, so they're just chilling, just waiting for shit to hit the water, which is, that's what fishing is too. You know, you see that the fly is hatching, you try to match it, try to put it on there. And like, they're like, okay, got one to hit the water.

• 15:06Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 15:07Speaker 02

  But yeah, alligators are masters of taking advantage of opportunity. And every once in a while, some comes off a bridge and hey, big meal.

• 15:14Joe Rogan?

  Really shocking how many of them there are in, in the Everglades. It's like, you know, I went, I guess it was three years ago. And when we were there, it's like everywhere you look, you have to look for an alligator. It's, it's like nothing I've ever seen. I, I, I thought it'd be hard to find them. I thought like we'd go out there, you know, you look around, you probably glass a little, see eyeballs pop up. No, they're fucking all over the water.

• 15:39Speaker 02

  Like, how many would you see?

• 15:41Joe Rogan?

  We saw fifteen, twenty.

• 15:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 15:42Joe Rogan?

  Maybe more.

• 15:43Speaker 02

  Just chilling.

• 15:44Joe Rogan?

  Maybe thirty. You see like some movement on the water and then they dunk under and you're in the fucking swamp, man. It's sketchy as shit.

• 15:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, I've never done it.

• 15:53Joe Rogan?

  It's very weird. It's very weird because you're like, this is a mess.

• 15:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 15:57Joe Rogan?

  Like there's the feeling that you get there like, oh, this is infested. Like you, you're infested by dinosaurs. And then meanwhile, you go an hour and a half later, you're in Miami having a steak, drinking an ice Pinot Noir. You think you're in civilization. You're, you're fucking a, a half a day's drive from monsters. An infested jungle filled with monsters.

• 16:21Speaker 02

  And imagine if you weren't in a boat. Like what if, what if you were to somehow, something happened to the boat?

• 16:26Joe Rogan?

  Oh, you're fucked. Yeah.

• 16:27Speaker 02

  What would you do if like the boat sank out there?

• 16:29Joe Rogan?

  Well, we weren't in a boat.

• 16:30Speaker 02

  Oh, okay.

• 16:31Joe Rogan?

  We, we drove out, we were with guides and we drove out in trucks. And they know like where the lake areas are, where the, you know, it's very dense out there. It's very thick. It's just hot and muggy and, and these fuckers just, you see them pop up. You see the eyeballs pop up, you see some motion, but you fucking see them everywhere.

• 16:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 16:52Joe Rogan?

  And then you look around at how big the Everglades is and you go, how many of them are out here?

• 16:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 16:57Joe Rogan?

  Because it's not like. Like we found the honey spot.

• 17:00Speaker 02

  Right.

• 17:01Joe Rogan?

  You know what I mean? It's like the whole Everglades. And there, when I was a kid, you know, I lived down there in Florida when I was eleven years old, from eleven to thirteen. I lived in Gainesville. And there's alligators back then, but they were endangered. And so you you weren't allowed to kill them. And so they would kill people's dogs and shit. I remember this lady in my neighborhood, her dog got jacked. She was walking her dog by Lake Alice and it just snatched her dog and took it away. This is like the late seventies. And um, we were feeding them marshmallows. So you go to the dock and you throw marshmallows and the alligators would come up and eat the marshmallows. And it was, you know, it was weird. Kind of cool that they're there, freaks you out a little bit, but they weren't dangerous.

• 17:41Speaker 02

  Right.

• 17:42Joe Rogan?

  Cut to all these years later, now, because no one hunted them, because they basically were making shoes out of them back in the day. And they almost hunted them to extinction. And they should probably start that again. We need to bring alligator shoes back. Like back in like the seventies, like that was the cool shoes. Like in the pool halls, where I used to play pool. Like the old guys would talk about how a guy was really dressed up. He had his gators on. He looked good. He had a nice suit. He had his gators on. His gators.

• 18:13Speaker 02

  I got gator boots.

• 18:14Joe Rogan?

  Alligator shoes.

• 18:16Speaker 02

  Lucasey. Yeah.

• 18:17Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, gator boots seem to be a different thing, because it kind of almost makes sense. Cause like, like you get boots that are made out of like snake skin and ostrich and like, that's kind of a cowboy boot thing.

• 18:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 18:30Joe Rogan?

  Alligator dress shoes. You got your gators on.

• 18:34Speaker 02

  Right, yeah.

• 18:35Joe Rogan?

  Very hard to get. Polish it nice.

• 18:37Speaker 02

  That's Ric Flair.

• 18:38Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 18:42Speaker 02

  I love that.

• 18:43Joe Rogan?

  Bro, I gotta apologize to Ric Flair. He got scammed. So some, some person reached out and said that they were representing this podcast and they were gonna, that he was gonna come on the podcast. I think, uh, Tim Dillon, this happened with him too. Um, it didn't happen with him where they got him, but they send you an email saying that they're gonna have you come on a podcast, but they need your bank information.

• 19:08Speaker 02

  Yeah. They'll pay you. Sometimes it's like three thousand bucks.

• 19:11Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 19:11Speaker 02

  Cause I've got those too.

• 19:12Joe Rogan?

  And what it really is, is they're just gonna empty your bank account. And it's just a scam. So if you get an email like that from me, it's not real. Sorry, Ric Flair. So Ric Flair, I don't know if he lost his money, but Tim Dillon, they tried to get him on Amy Poehler's show. So it's, that's the scam. The scam was, they've reached out to, he talked about it on his podcast. They reached, the scammer reached out, said, I'm representing the Amy Poehler show. We would love to have you on. And he was like, that doesn't seem like that would be a good thing for Amy Poehler. I don't think I'm a good guest. He was like, I don't think this is real. And then it says, you know, we need your bank account information. And so many people just like, don't think about it, or they're boomers, or.

• 19:54Speaker 02

  Well, they make it seem legit, cause I know Pat McAfee, I got an email from them about coming on the show. And I'd been kinda communicating with some of those guys before. And so I'm like, maybe, I mean, for me, it's like a big deal, like ESPN and Pat McAfee. He's like, to me, he reminds me of you. He just kinda does what, says whatever he wants, does.

• 20:15Joe Rogan?

  He's free.

• 20:15Speaker 02

  If the bosses say whatever, he's like, fuck off. I just love that unfiltered, like, true thoughts.

• 20:22Joe Rogan?

  He's a guy that's got fuck you money that says fuck you. That's what I love.

• 20:25Speaker 02

  It's just, it's beautiful. So I mean, I celebrate, that's, that's a, you know, first amendment in his glory right there.

• 20:33Joe Rogan?

  And he seems like a genuine good dude.

• 20:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. I don't know him, but it's like.

• 20:37Joe Rogan?

  I don't know him either, but when you hear a guy talk enough.

• 20:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, you can assume, or you can like, put the pieces of puzzle together, but, and they've worn my stuff on there, so I'm like, oh, maybe this is real, right?

• 20:47Joe Rogan?

  Oh no.

• 20:48Speaker 02

  So the guy I asked, uh, he's just an A O, uh, he's just a great guy, but, he, uh, he said, no, it's not, not legit. But they had me, cause it was like, it almost seemed real.

• 21:01Joe Rogan?

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• 22:12Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, somebody asked me like, hey, you know, they said, well, they said, can you do anything about it? Unfortunately, I can't. Like, there's nothing you could do other than tell people it's a scam. I don't want to tell you how I get guests. I don't want to like give up the process, but I have a guy and I have this guy reach out to people. And, you know, I don't want to talk too much about it because I don't want people to imitate that and pretend that that's how they do it. But if you get an email.

• 22:39Speaker 02

  That's how I got here.

• 22:40Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. If you get an email asking for your bank account information, it's not me.

• 22:45Speaker 02

  No.

• 22:46Joe Rogan?

  And it's probably not Anna Faris or Amy Poehler or Tim Dillon or any of those other people. It's all bullshit. There's scumbags out there, unfortunately.

• 22:55Speaker 02

  If you say you have some elk meat you'll share, that might be real.

• 22:58Joe Rogan?

  Nope. I share with friends and family. That's it. I'm not giving it out to weirdos. But you're bringing in some bear meat.

• 23:05Speaker 02

  I know. And dude, you're, I said you're in trouble.

• 23:08Joe Rogan?

  I know.

• 23:09Speaker 02

  We got, we got notes. I got, I got shit we're going to discuss today.

• 23:13Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, like I had a scientist on yesterday. He had less notes.

• 23:16Speaker 02

  Less, I know. I'm, I'm ready. Well. We had some-

• 23:19Joe Rogan?

  First of all, before we go any further.

• 23:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 23:21Joe Rogan?

  What's going on with your tooth? Why you got a gold tooth? I love it.

• 23:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's a, well, it was, it's kind of a joke, but I've been like for years obsessed with like perfect teeth, right? And-

• 23:34Joe Rogan?

  That's like Adam Green cheese always busting your balls.

• 23:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, and you know, I did like the, the white strips and all this other shit and like I always cared about, well, just probably cared too much. So now, I don't care what I look like, but um-

• 23:48Joe Rogan?

  What, what changed?

• 23:50Speaker 02

  Uh, I don't know. I, I've just like been playing the game too long. Now it's just like, I'm just done and, and the game's not over unfortunately, even though I'm saying I don't want to play anymore, game still goes on. So it's like, I'm still part of it, but anyway, I was getting this, okay, long story short, um, I had, I broke this in high school, so I had a fake tooth since high school. And uh, yeah, this is like a long story, kissing this girl, basketball, hitting me back in the head, broke the tooth, anyway-

• 24:19Joe Rogan?

  You broke the teeth on her teeth?

• 24:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, so she had pieces of teeth in her lip.

• 24:23Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that's crazy.

• 24:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was, yeah, it was uh, Jack Deveraux did that. But anyway, um, we uh, so I got it fixed, got a few different iterations of it, finally found one that looked good. Well, I go in there, I hadn't been in the dentist in forever, cause I just would hate going, and they said, oh, you got a, a cavity under that, what, composite is what it was called. And I'm like, okay, cool. So we gotta take it off, fix the cavity, then you get another, whole nother one. And I'm like, whatever. Um, so I go back in there and next, next appointment, they take it off, no cavity. But now I just have this like whittled down regular tooth, just like a, like a post of a tooth.

• 25:02Joe Rogan?

  So, because they removed the cavity?

• 25:04Speaker 02

  Cause they, or-

• 25:05Joe Rogan?

  There was no cavity?

• 25:06Speaker 02

  There was no cavity.

• 25:06Joe Rogan?

  Jesus Christ.

• 25:07Speaker 02

  They thought on the x-ray there was, so they had, they, anyway, that cap or the composite's gone, so they said, well, you need to go and match the color of your teeth for your new fake tooth. And spring, and in Springfield, swing by this Springfield, um- Whatever they do there for dentistry. So I go in there and they said, uh, the girl there goes, hey, my husband, Nate makes some really cool gold teeth. He does a really good job. Do you want a gold one? And, uh, I was like, wait. And so she's like, we'll do a white one too, but a gold one might just be fun. And then I'm like, yeah, it'd be fun. So I told Trace, I'm just gonna do it just a day or two. So this has been months now.

• 25:47Joe Rogan?

  You gonna keep it?

• 25:47Speaker 02

  I don't know. I kinda like it.

• 25:48Joe Rogan?

  I kinda like it too.

• 25:49Speaker 02

  I kinda like it. It's like everybody.

• 25:51Joe Rogan?

  Fuck it.

• 25:51Speaker 02

  You know, everybody's got regular teeth. Nobody's got gold teeth.

• 25:55Joe Rogan?

  Not anymore. It was a thing back in the day. Remember Mike Tyson had a gold tooth for a while?

• 25:59Speaker 02

  Well, this is like my savings account, cause I figure that I'm gonna lose everything, cause I'm such a fuck up. But I'll still have this. I can sell that.

• 26:07Joe Rogan?

  Pull that sucker out and you can buy a cheeseburger.

• 26:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, if I get in a bind, right? It's like, hey, well, I got this.

• 26:12Joe Rogan?

  I have one crown. I have one fake tooth back here. I cracked one of my molars. I had a root canal and then, um, it like, so then they had to put like a crown on it and then it cracked. And so now I gotta get another one, cause I got a little piece of it missing. I think I'm gonna get a gold one.

• 26:29Speaker 02

  Nice.

• 26:30Joe Rogan?

  Get a gold one right here.

• 26:31Speaker 02

  Do it, do it.

• 26:32Joe Rogan?

  Now you're inspired me. Also, it's in the back, so you won't see it all the time until I hee.

• 26:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 26:38Joe Rogan?

  Until I give you a big cheese.

• 26:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, well.

• 26:41Joe Rogan?

  I'm gonna get it. I'm copying you.

• 26:42Speaker 02

  Good. When you're cracking up, you always do a big smile.

• 26:45Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 26:45Speaker 02

  So that'll one, even people see it, that'll be fun.

• 26:47Joe Rogan?

  Fortunately, I laugh a lot.

• 26:49Speaker 02

  I know.

• 26:49Joe Rogan?

  I live a happy life.

• 26:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, you do. You're, you're crushing it lately.

• 26:53Joe Rogan?

  Oh, just keep, keep your foot on the gas.

• 26:55Speaker 02

  Same old stuff, right?

• 26:57Joe Rogan?

  Just keep going.

• 26:57Speaker 02

  I can't believe, I look at your guests and it's just like non-stop, dude. It's like, it's, people see like all your success. You'd think most people would be like, okay, I'm good. I'll, foot off the gas. You don't.

• 27:09Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 27:10Speaker 02

  You keep, I mean, you, you work your ass off.

• 27:12Joe Rogan?

  Well, you very rarely get an opportunity in life to do anything like what I can do. And very few human beings get this opportunity. And I feel insanely fortunate and also.

• 27:25Joe Rogan?

  Very responsible, like I'm responsible for this whole thing. I have to keep it rolling. I know people are addicted to it. They love it. They want the variety. They want scientists. They want guys like you. They want athletes and fighters. They want all this shit. They want to hear all these different people talk, all these different perspectives. And it's a huge obligation, you know, and I feel like connected to all these people. I know I don't talk to them all the time. I don't know, see, but I feel it. I know it and I'm dedicated. So I just keep my foot on the gas. I never, I never say, oh, I can't believe I have to do this. Oh, I can't believe I have to show up. I just.

• 27:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 28:00Joe Rogan?

  I always try to reset every day and go, God, I'm so lucky. I'm so fortunate. And then, you know, when you have that opportunity, I think it's a terrible tragedy, a travesty, to not capitalize on it, to not like make the most out of it. Cause I know that it's like very few human beings in the world. Well, I mean, how many people have ever had the number one podcast? It's always gone like back and forth. I've had it for like six years now. Six or seven, might be seven years now. And it's like, I'm not, I'm not keeping my foot off the gas. I'm gonna do exactly what I'm doing. I'm gonna do it my best. I'm gonna keep doing it until the fucking wheels fall off.

• 28:41Speaker 02

  That's like, people have said like with bow hunting and stuff, like if you, you know, you work your ass off to get this place where you're respected, right? And then there's gonna be people that want your position. And like with your attitude, my attitude too is like, fucking come get it.

• 28:58Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, come get it.

• 28:59Speaker 02

  Come try to take it, cause I'm working my ass off still.

• 29:02Joe Rogan?

  We were hanging out somewhere and you said one of the coldest things to this dude. This dude was, we were all just fucking around. I, I really even forget who it was, cause it didn't matter. And he said, uh, yeah, and after that I'm gonna challenge you to a race. And you go, good luck with that. It was so cold. You go, yeah, you didn't even remotely take it seriously. It was like a five-year-old saying they're gonna kick my ass. Like, okay, good luck with that.

• 29:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, you get, you get confident when it's something you do.

• 29:34Joe Rogan?

  Further down the line than anybody.

• 29:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, and so if you're gonna take my spot.

• 29:39Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 29:41Speaker 02

  I mean, it's been a grind dude, forty years.

• 29:43Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, the whole taking the spot thing is so stupid because everybody's on their own little journey. And you could look at it in terms of I'm gonna take that guy's spot and maybe that's your motivation. And that's cool and all that, but there's a negative attached to that motivation. If you don't have an actual personal beef with someone and you hate them just because they're in a position that you wish you are, you're wasting energy. I know this sounds like very hippie, but it's true. Like, you're, that energy instead should be celebrating that there's people like that out in the world that do inspire you and are out there pushing themselves to like extreme limits. Just, and excelling at whatever, whatever it's fucking playing guitar or doing stand-up comedy.

• 30:28Joe Rogan?

  You should look at those people like, wow, what are they doing that I can do to make myself more successful or better? Or what, where, where can I get to a point, how can I get to a point where I'm like them?

• 30:40Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 30:41Joe Rogan?

  But most people don't do that. Most people are like, fuck that guy, that guy fucking sucks. This sucks and fuck it, he's a pussy and he's a this and he's using steroids and he's fucking lying about how many miles he runs. And it's, there's always gonna be people like that and I'm telling my message to the haters. I, I was a hater. When I was a kid, I was one hundred percent a hater. One hundred percent. Like, all the other people, like, when I was fighting, everybody else was a pussy.

• 31:07Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 31:07Joe Rogan?

  They were all pussies.

• 31:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:09Joe Rogan?

  Unless they were, weren't in my weight division. If they weren't in my weight division, then I could celebrate them. But everybody in my weight division was a pussy. That guy's, I'm gonna fuck that guy up, he's got nothing. I, I could never celebrate people, even like national champions, people with, I couldn't celebrate them.

• 31:22Speaker 02

  Right.

• 31:22Joe Rogan?

  It's a waste. It's a waste of energy.

• 31:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:25Joe Rogan?

  And you get more energy out of looking at what they do well and analyzing it and being inspired by it. It's a hard struggle because your ego wants you to compare yourself to them and find flaws in them. You know, fuck that guy, fuck this, fuck that. It's a waste of energy.

• 31:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:42Joe Rogan?

  You have to be selfish with your energy. Your energy is very critical. It's everything in life. Everything you do in life is dependent upon you having energy. And for you to waste your energy in some stupid ego-driven direction, just because you're too weak to recognize like, oh, this guy can kick my ass.

• 32:01Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 32:01Joe Rogan?

  Oh, this guy could shoot a bow further than me. Oh, this guy runs way farther than I can run. Oh, this guy's way better at playing guitar than me. What the fuck can I do to get where he's at?

• 32:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 32:12Joe Rogan?

  You gotta just, that's a, it's a trap because not only does it take away energy, it takes away progress.

• 32:20Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 32:21Joe Rogan?

  It takes away energy from you investing in you being better in the future.

• 32:26Speaker 02

  Right.

• 32:26Joe Rogan?

  It's bad all around.

• 32:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 32:28Joe Rogan?

  There's no good to it at all.

• 32:30Speaker 02

  No, I, I, I agree with that. And it's like that, that energy is a resource that we have to protect. I think that when you talk about, like, you talk about all the outliers that you, you have this conversation with or sit across the table from you, and I think your attitude and how you look at things like in that lens, that makes people wanna come on, like you said, you listed all these people and people wanna hear what they have to say. People wanna hear what they have to say to you because you have a way of drawing out uh, more information in a different way because your attitude is so pure. I think, like, even if you didn't believe what you said, it was still, if, if you just said like, I wanna be positive, but your questions were all negative, like, in tone,

• 33:13Speaker 02

  or like confrontational in tone, people wouldn't wanna be on here like they wanna be on here now. You being positive and looking at things like, how can I get better? How can I grow? How can we all learn and, and um, um, get better from this? That's the lens that you put the information that comes out through these microphones out into the world, which means people are attracted to you. People are attracted to the guests you have. People are attracted to the show. And so, yeah, that energy, we, even though, even if we don't admit it, we're attracted to it. You, you know what I mean? You seek it out. And um, I know when I'm I like to hear people paint a picture of something that gives me hope.

• 33:53Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 33:54Speaker 02

  I don't want to hear about how fucked up everything is all the time.

• 33:58Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 33:59Speaker 02

  I want hope. How can I have hope? Cause hope gives me purpose. I'm like, okay, I can do this. I can, I got get to work and this'll this'll pay off.

• 34:09Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 34:09Speaker 02

  So I I think it's like, it's more complicated than we than we think, but there's a reason why you're number one and have been number one and it's your attitude. And it's it's how you speak to people.

• 34:20Joe Rogan?

  It's also I got in really early, right? So I got in at like two thousand and nine. And there was hardly anybody doing it back then.

• 34:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 34:29Joe Rogan?

  So you could you could also, I wasn't as famous back then, so you could do it for a long time before anybody noticed you were doing it.

• 34:37Speaker 02

  Right.

• 34:37Joe Rogan?

  So you could get good at it.

• 34:38Speaker 02

  So you could hone your craft.

• 34:39Joe Rogan?

  Right. You didn't have a bunch of comments that you had to sift through. You didn't have the, you just did it.

• 34:45Speaker 02

  If you started now, maybe you wouldn't be number one.

• 34:48Joe Rogan?

  No, I wouldn't be.

• 34:49Speaker 02

  You know what I mean?

• 34:49Joe Rogan?

  Cause there's there's so many podcasts. I mean, how many podcasts are there now?

• 34:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, like.

• 34:55Joe Rogan?

  What's the number?

• 34:56Speaker 02

  Ten mil- five million?

• 34:58Speaker 03

  I think there's like seven or eight million.

• 34:59Joe Rogan?

  It probably keeps growing every week, you know, cause everybody thinks they can do it, cause everybody can talk.

• 35:04Speaker 02

  Well, and and the people starting now, they might be you down the road.

• 35:10Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah, for sure.

• 35:11Speaker 02

  There might be some, you know.

• 35:12Joe Rogan?

  Well, they'll be them.

• 35:13Speaker 02

  Incredible conversationalists that.

• 35:15Joe Rogan?

  They'll be them. They'll be a different thing than me, but they'll be amazing at it.

• 35:19Speaker 02

  But you had, because you had this insight or, you know, you saw Tom Green or whoever it was that like, hey, maybe I could do that. You started this process of this decades of honing your craft to where it is now. And now you've been on top for six, seven years, right? And it's just because of all those reps that you did. It's it's no different than anything we always talk about.

• 35:38Joe Rogan?

  It's everything. Everything is reps.

• 35:40Speaker 02

  It's reps. It's just like, you want to get good at something?

• 35:43Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 35:44Speaker 02

  Fail. Keep doing it. Fail.

• 35:45Joe Rogan?

  Archery is reps, pools reps, martial arts are reps. It's all reps. It's all experience and it's all like being like super focused on what you're trying to do, whatever it is.

• 35:55Speaker 02

  Yeah. I think like, I even think of, you know, I love Sean Ryan and he's has an incredible podcast, but. I get, I get why this is happening. He's pretty down, kind of on a lot right now. Just with government, with Israel, with Epstein, with all the, which is by design almost. They want us to be hopeless. And I don't want to be a conspiracy theorist, but they do want us hopeless because we can be controlled. But Sean, his podcast lately has taken more, I don't want to say dark, because it's more real, but it's like, it's darker. So I just think that attracts

• 36:36Speaker 02

  less people and a different type of person than yours. You have every reason to be dark about things, and you are sometimes, but that's not the theme of you.

• 36:45Joe Rogan?

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• 37:30Joe Rogan?

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• 38:51Joe Rogan?

  let zip recruiter find the right people for your roles seasonal or otherwise try it for free today at ziprecruiter.com slash rogan that's ziprecruiter.com slash rogan meet your match on zip recruiter first of all people that aren't comedians they're they're limited in in what they could talk about and the way they can talk about things you know being a comedian is there's a little bit of a safety little freedom yeah you could always like yeah what the fuck is wrong yeah we're fucking around you get a little get get a little you can write it off a little bit it's also there's that's real in terms of like uh another layer of conversation like there's a layer of conversation

• 39:33Joe Rogan?

  that is commonly known as talking shit and talking shit is a thing that you do where you're with your boys and you say things that you don't really mean because they're funny and you make each other laugh you talk about how many dicks you sucked last night you know why is your mouth so sore you know like you fuck around you say things you're silly you know you talk about oh you know it's hard doing all this meth you know you don't you're not really doing meth right there's you're you're not really having gay sex you're fucking around yeah and when you can't fuck around there's a whole realm of the conversation that's missing yeah for sure and there's a whole like

• 40:14Joe Rogan?

  Like, get out of jail pass. Like, let's have fun. Let's loosen up a little here.

• 40:17Speaker 02

  Well, and then where-

• 40:18Joe Rogan?

  You can't loosen up. You're serious.

• 40:19Speaker 02

  Right, and then where does the conversation go? Back to the serious part, which changes it.

• 40:23Joe Rogan?

  It's also the serious stuff is what gets engagement.

• 40:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 40:27Joe Rogan?

  And that's a little bit of a trap, where if you only focus on the bad of the world, and it's not saying you should ignore the bad of the world.

• 40:33Speaker 02

  No.

• 40:33Joe Rogan?

  You certainly shouldn't, but if you only focus on the bad of the world, it's kind of a trap.

• 40:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 40:39Joe Rogan?

  It'll fuck your head up, too.

• 40:41Speaker 02

  That, that's-

• 40:41Joe Rogan?

  You're just swimming in negativity all the time.

• 40:43Speaker 02

  That's what I see Sean, that's a feeling I've got with Sean lately. Whereas with the differences with you, there's a reset, there's always this reset back to good. The message is good.

• 40:54Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I think-

• 40:55Speaker 02

  And I don't think you're, I don't, I don't think you, that's not by design, that's just who you are.

• 41:00Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, no, it's not by design. It's just, uh, that's how I think.

• 41:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 41:04Joe Rogan?

  Like, you can only dwell on negativity so much. Most of your day is not negative, in fact.

• 41:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 41:09Joe Rogan?

  It's, there's things that you need to be aware of, and you need to be, prepare for them, and-

• 41:14Speaker 02

  The problem is, is no, it's not, but our voices are oftentimes negative. So-

• 41:21Joe Rogan?

  It's easy.

• 41:22Speaker 02

  If, like, if you get in that trap, where you're listening to negative and you're thinking negative, it's a lot of negative, dude.

• 41:28Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 41:29Speaker 02

  So it's like, knowing that, you know, I can go down a negative rabbit hole, pretty easy, I try to avoid wading in that.

• 41:37Joe Rogan?

  Well, sometimes it's like, you just get fed up. You're like, where the fuck are these Epstein files?

• 41:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 41:42Joe Rogan?

  Who the fuck is this? Why is this redacted? Where is it? Who the fuck killed JFK?

• 41:46Speaker 02

  Right.

• 41:47Joe Rogan?

  Like, come out with it. What the fuck, who fucking killed Charlie Kirk for real?

• 41:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 41:51Joe Rogan?

  Like, what is that? Why is that fucking story so clouded and mystery? And why did they pave over the fucking ground right after the, the shooting? What the fuck is going on there?

• 42:01Speaker 02

  See, now you're making me in a bad mood.

• 42:02Joe Rogan?

  That's, but that, it's easy to do. It's easy to do. It's easy to get locked up in there.

• 42:06Speaker 02

  Do you see my notes? Look at my two, on the very top.

• 42:09Joe Rogan?

  What does it say? Stay positive, be nice, and what does that other one say? You have terrible handwriting.

• 42:14Speaker 02

  Be positive.

• 42:14Joe Rogan?

  Oh, be nice, be positive. But your handwriting's terrible.

• 42:17Speaker 02

  It is-

• 42:18Joe Rogan?

  You should be a doctor.

• 42:20Speaker 02

  But no, I have to remind myself like, cause I, if you start mentioning those things that you just did.

• 42:26Joe Rogan?

  Oh, it's hard.

• 42:26Speaker 02

  Dude, I will fucking lose my shit.

• 42:28Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 42:29Speaker 02

  Because I'm so pissed.

• 42:30Joe Rogan?

  I know. I should be. And we, we were all, we're all pissed. We're all, you know, we all thought that, you know, all that stuff was gonna be released right after the election. It's gonna, we're gonna drain the swamp and find all the pedophiles and.

• 42:44Speaker 02

  Well, the, the first term was more like that. That's what gave me hope for this term. The first term, there was some draining the swamp going on, I felt. Then we had the Biden disaster and now the second term has been, I don't even know what this is. I don't even know what it is.

• 42:59Joe Rogan?

  Well, it would have been a whole lot different for, first of all, if we didn't bomb Iran. I feel like we bombed them the first time, we were good. The second time was like, even the first time was like, what the fuck are we doing?

• 43:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 43:13Joe Rogan?

  And then when they were saying like, this is it, the, the escalation's over, we're gonna work this out, like, oh, phew.

• 43:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 43:19Joe Rogan?

  And the second time when we bombed them, I was like, oh, fucking great.

• 43:23Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 43:23Joe Rogan?

  Now, and the, most people don't want it, that's the real problem. Most people in the country don't want it. Now, look, I'm no fucking foreign policy expert. I don't know what's going on over there, but I do know that all the people I know that really support Israel above everything else, they're fucking super happy about it. And I'm like, but all the people I know that are like, America first, or people that are like, no new wars, that really thought that we're gonna change things and this is all just for money, we're not gonna sacrifice soldiers for fucking money. Those people are all upset. I don't know really what's going on though. That's the problem. And, uh, I, I really wish I understood Iranian politics more and the Iranian, Iranian military structure. Cause it seems like that's super fucking complicated.

• 44:07Joe Rogan?

  Like, they've been preparing to be attacked like this forever.

• 44:11Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 44:11Joe Rogan?

  And so they have like, all these layers of control. Like, when this guy gets taken out, new guys are like, ready to fill their spot. And then when we're negotiating with the new guy, Israel kills him. Like, it's like, the fuck is going on?

• 44:23Speaker 02

  I know.

• 44:25Joe Rogan?

  And then what happened yesterday? They captured like, 20 oil tankers.

• 44:29Speaker 02

  Oh, did they? I didn't even see that.

• 44:31Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. There was some, I don't know, it might be bullshit. I just read very quickly on the toilet, in one of the rare weak moments where I traveled to X.

• 44:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's a

• 44:42Joe Rogan?

  I've been so healthy lately, last few months, just staying off of fucking Instagram.

• 44:45Speaker 02

  Really?

• 44:46Joe Rogan?

  Staying off of Twitter, just not reading anything.

• 44:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 44:49Joe Rogan?

  Not anything, but Instagram started funneling me schizophrenics.

• 44:53Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 44:54Joe Rogan?

  I don't know how. I followed one schizophrenic, "My name is Dolores, I am the real granddaughter of JFK, the gold that's in the basement is all mine. They're trying to stuff shit inside my vagina, they wake me up in the middle of the night." Crazy people.

• 45:10Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 45:11Joe Rogan?

  Not just one, but like a whole fucking series of them. And I started getting those a couple of weeks ago. And again, I might spend like ten, fifteen minutes, but it's all schizophrenic people. I'm like, I gotta get off of this. There's no reason.

• 45:24Speaker 02

  It's interesting.

• 45:25Joe Rogan?

  It's crazy.

• 45:26Speaker 02

  That's what gets you hooked.

• 45:27Joe Rogan?

  I got this one lady, she was a hooker and she's a crackhead, and she thinks everyone's a man. Like, so she'll show photos of all these different people. That's a fucking man.

• 45:39Joe Rogan?

  She's just fucking out to lunch. One guy thinks he's the rightful president of the United States, and he wears like this dirty old suit, and you can look in his eyes, and he's out there. The dude's gone, he lives in a completely different dimension than we do. And he's on Instagram.

• 45:55Speaker 02

  I start watching like, sometimes street fights.

• 45:58Joe Rogan?

  Oh, I watch a lot of those.

• 45:59Speaker 02

  There's a lot of those out there, or the pranks, or the jokes, or pets. It's like

• 46:06Joe Rogan?

  Pets are cool.

• 46:07Speaker 02

  And then it's just like, but they, it's just a trap. It just keeps you there.

• 46:12Joe Rogan?

  And then an hour's gone, and you're like, what did I do for an hour? It's just terrible for you. But since I've been really good about it, I'm just so much healthier. When I take like full days, like days off, I feel so much better. And I'm like, remember when we were in Hawaii? We went to Hawaii a few years back, and we went bow hunting for Axis deer on Lanai, and I broke my phone. I don't know if you remember this.

• 46:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, I do.

• 46:34Joe Rogan?

  My phone just started calling people. I'd be like, this is crazy. I'd hang up, and it'd start calling a new person, hang up. So I had to get a new phone, and it took like three days. And those were like three of the happiest days of my life.

• 46:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 46:45Joe Rogan?

  And I'm like, oh, I should just get rid of my phone. I was thinking that, but I was like, oh, I can't wait till my phone gets here.

• 46:51Speaker 02

  Well, there's stuff, where it's really handy is taking pictures of cool stuff.

• 46:55Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 46:56Speaker 02

  And capturing those memories, that's.

• 46:58Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 46:58Speaker 02

  It's.

• 46:59Joe Rogan?

  And if you have a question.

• 47:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 47:00Joe Rogan?

  That I love it for, because I've always have a question about something. I love that Siri now, you could just press Siri and ask it a question. Like, how many minutes are in a month? And it'll just tell you.

• 47:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 47:11Joe Rogan?

  Like, right, like, ooh, like, you'd be driving on the car, you have a question, just press a button and it gives you the answer.

• 47:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 47:16Joe Rogan?

  Fucking nuts.

• 47:17Speaker 02

  How many times did you have a question and you're just like, ah, probably never figure that out?

• 47:20Joe Rogan?

  Exactly.

• 47:21Speaker 02

  Now, no question goes unanswered.

• 47:23Joe Rogan?

  Literally instantaneous.

• 47:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 47:25Joe Rogan?

  You know, and, you know, I'll use perplexity all throughout the day to just ask it questions. Because I'm just driving around or I'm sitting at home and I'm like, I wonder how that happened? And then just, now you know, like, instantaneously.

• 47:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 47:38Joe Rogan?

  But the dealing with all the people stuff? That's, that's where I checked out. I'm like, I'm not interested in that. I don't like, it's like, if you get a bowl of soup and there's little pieces of meat, but most of the soup is shit. All right, I would recommend not eating that soup.

• 47:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 47:56Joe Rogan?

  And that's what social media is like. It's like, I get some meat out of it here and there. I get some interesting stories about science and some new discovery from the James Webb Telescope, like, whoa, this is fucking cool. And it'll send me down a nice rabbit hole where I'm like, studying things and getting excited about things. And then I'll just deal with some fucking kooks and, and crazy people and shitheads and grifters and people that are mad that people are white and people that are mad that people are black and like, oh, fucking Christ.

• 48:24Speaker 02

  It's exhausting.

• 48:25Joe Rogan?

  It's too much.

• 48:26Speaker 02

  It's exhausting, yeah.

• 48:28Joe Rogan?

  It's just, it's just eating soup with shit in it.

• 48:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 48:32Joe Rogan?

  It's just like, it's not worth it. Speaking of which, you brought in some of that bear, grab some of that, son. And so a lot of people are of the opinion that a black bear is not an edible meat. And that is, that is incorrect.

• 48:49Joe Rogan?

  People can't hear you unless you're on that microphone.

• 48:52Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 48:54Joe Rogan?

  Give me some.

• 48:54Speaker 02

  So, also, this.

• 48:56Joe Rogan?

  No one can hear that either. You gotta get to the microphone.

• 48:58Speaker 02

  Also, this.

• 48:59Joe Rogan?

  Put that thing down and have a seat.

• 49:00Speaker 02

  Oh, there we go.

• 49:03Speaker 02

  So do you know who Casey Brooks is?

• 49:05Joe Rogan?

  I've heard of the name.

• 49:06Speaker 02

  So he killed the world record elk.

• 49:08Joe Rogan?

  That's right.

• 49:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 49:09Joe Rogan?

  That giant, that thing is crazy.

• 49:11Speaker 02

  So he does, this is like, super hot stuff.

• 49:15Joe Rogan?

  Oh.

• 49:16Speaker 02

  Here's what it's called.

• 49:17Joe Rogan?

  What is it?

• 49:17Speaker 02

  Everything you need to know about Chilean, whatever, see yours.

• 49:21Joe Rogan?

  Everything you know, need to know about, well, it's all worn out.

• 49:25Speaker 02

  I know, maybe on the other page.

• 49:27Joe Rogan?

  Small but mighty Chilean chili.

• 49:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 49:30Joe Rogan?

  Okay, so it's a type of chili?

• 49:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, you put that on like when you're cooking steaks.

• 49:34Joe Rogan?

  Where's that knife, Jamie?

• 49:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, here's one.

• 49:36Joe Rogan?

  Thank you.

• 49:37Speaker 02

  Look at that.

• 49:37Joe Rogan?

  Ooh, sweet. Oh, look at that fucking elk, man. Oh my god, that's nuts. That thing is literally nuts. What was the score on that?

• 49:46Speaker 02

  It was like, 386 or something?

• 49:49Joe Rogan?

  No, 486.

• 49:50Speaker 02

  Oh no, 486.

• 49:51Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 49:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 49:53Joe Rogan?

  386.

• 49:54Speaker 02

  Getting close to 500. Yeah.

• 49:57Joe Rogan?

  Whoa, this smells strong.

• 49:58Speaker 02

  Does it?

• 49:59Joe Rogan?

  Oh my god.

• 49:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 50:00Joe Rogan?

  So these are the chili, oh, so this is a...

• 50:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, he said you don't need much.

• 50:05Joe Rogan?

  It says...

• 50:05Speaker 02

  What did it say, 480?

• 50:06Joe Rogan?

  It says sprinkle this shit on everything.

• 50:09Speaker 02

  Okay, yeah.

• 50:11Joe Rogan?

  This is cool.

• 50:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, so I, I brought, and also, like, do you know his son? His son is a really good elk caller. I mean, I don't know.

• 50:20Joe Rogan?

  Oh, he makes calls.

• 50:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, we don't usually mess around with that.

• 50:23Joe Rogan?

  I learned how to do these just last year.

• 50:26Speaker 02

  His son is Beau Brooks?

• 50:27Joe Rogan?

  I learned how to make a female elk caller, because I had a little one that I blow on.

• 50:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 50:31Joe Rogan?

  So I never learned how to use a reed.

• 50:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, the mouth reed.

• 50:33Joe Rogan?

  I definitely don't know how to make an elk set with a tube. I'm fucking terrible.

• 50:37Speaker 02

  Well, let me see that knife real quick. Might, yeah. This is the old pack out Skinner from Montana knife. But, here's the good stuff right here. So we got some of this.

• 50:49Speaker 02

  Tell me what you think of this.

• 50:51Joe Rogan?

  I've had it the last time you brought us, from the same, um...

• 50:54Speaker 02

  No, this is from White's. This White's up in Portland, and this is Ronnie. Ronnie's the man, dude.

• 51:00Joe Rogan?

  Portland, Oregon has a good wild game.

• 51:02Speaker 02

  I think it's more like Gresham.

• 51:04Joe Rogan?

  Processor?

• 51:05Speaker 02

  But it's so good.

• 51:07Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that is good.

• 51:07Speaker 02

  Tell me what you think of that.

• 51:11Joe Rogan?

  That's fantastic.

• 51:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, that, thank you Ronnie. And then this is a...

• 51:15Joe Rogan?

  No trichinosis, right?

• 51:16Speaker 02

  Hell no.

• 51:17Joe Rogan?

  Is trichinosis free?

• 51:19Speaker 02

  Then, this is, I mean...

• 51:20Joe Rogan?

  Have you ever tested yourself for trichinosis, see if you have it? You might already have it.

• 51:23Speaker 02

  There's some bear jerky too.

• 51:24Joe Rogan?

  You might have it and ignored it.

• 51:26Speaker 02

  So, the, the jerky's so good, and then also, like, this says White's on it right here. White's Country Meats, so we got sausage.

• 51:34Joe Rogan?

  Oh, you made breakfast sausage?

• 51:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's so good.

• 51:36Joe Rogan?

  Nice.

• 51:37Speaker 02

  And then we got some rendered bear fat, right here.

• 51:40Joe Rogan?

  Oh wow.

• 51:41Speaker 02

  Brought you that, so you can cook with that.

• 51:42Joe Rogan?

  Oh, it's dark.

• 51:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 51:45Joe Rogan?

  Why is it so dark?

• 51:46Speaker 02

  I don't know.

• 51:47Joe Rogan?

  Um...

• 51:50Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy.

• 51:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 51:52Joe Rogan?

  Clay Newcomb gave me some.

• 51:53Speaker 02

  Did he?

• 51:54Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 51:54Speaker 02

  Okay, have you ever used it?

• 51:55Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I cooked, uh, steaks with it.

• 51:56Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 51:57Joe Rogan?

  It's great for searing steaks, you know, just like, even beef tallow.

• 52:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 52:01Joe Rogan?

  But it gives it a different flavor.

• 52:02Speaker 02

  For sure, definitely. So he, he did a, it's like, and also, like, the, the bear in the spring, their fat is a little different, so it's, it just reacts differently, like, for ma- making the pepperoni and, and rendering the fat, it just reacts a little differently because they've just come out of hibernation up there. This is one of the big bear I just killed. And, uh, yeah, so it's just perfect timing for, I guess, rendering fat and making sausage.

• 52:26Joe Rogan?

  Dude, I was watching those videos that Jen was making from Bear Camp.

• 52:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 52:30Joe Rogan?

  Where she smoked that bear for like, 24 hours.

• 52:32Speaker 02

  Yeah. So good.

• 52:34Joe Rogan?

  God, it looked insane.

• 52:35Speaker 02

  It looked like...

• 52:36Joe Rogan?

  It was so good. They're like, she's like a gourmet chef now with bear.

• 52:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, and then they had the meat church guy up there this last week.

• 52:41Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 52:42Speaker 02

  And, um, so they were like, you know, bear meat, when you put a whole back ham on the Traeger, so she, she let it soak, marinate for four days, right? And I saw people saying, "Oh, if you did shoe leather for four days, it'd be good." Whatever. I'm just telling you what, what it was. Four days, and then 20 hours of a slow cook on the Traeger. Best meat you've ever had. It's just like, incredible. That's bear. And you know, there's, like, people talk about, the settlers back in the day, they would eat bear and just kill deer for hides.

• 53:14Joe Rogan?

  Isn't that crazy?

• 53:15Speaker 02

  To make clothing, because bear was superior meat. So people have fallen into this trap of like, believing that bear meat isn't good, and it's amazing.

• 53:24Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's because of Yogi.

• 53:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 53:26Joe Rogan?

  Yogi fucked us.

• 53:27Speaker 02

  Probably.

• 53:28Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, Yogi and the, the one that tells you not to start fires. Who's that guy?

• 53:32Speaker 02

  Smokey?

• 53:33Joe Rogan?

  Smokey, Smokey the Bear, Yogi.

• 53:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 53:36Joe Rogan?

  They fucked us.

• 53:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, they did.

• 53:38Joe Rogan?

  Then Disney, Disney fucked us. You know, if it wasn't for those, um, anthropomorphizations of animals where they turned them into sweet, you know, beautiful creatures that talk to you.

• 53:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 53:49Joe Rogan?

  We would have a completely different idea of animals and then it'd be a much more realistic idea of animals.

• 53:54Speaker 02

  For sure.

• 53:54Joe Rogan?

  Which I think most hunters have. You love them, you respect them, but they all have to be managed. I sent Whitney Cummings a video that they got in, um, Santa Monica the other day, uh, of a mountain lion in someone's backyard. Big fucker, just laying in the grass in this dude's backyard in Santa Monica, man.

• 54:15Speaker 02

  I mean, I don't know if you know anymore, but.

• 54:16Joe Rogan?

  Um, I can't eat too much, people get annoyed.

• 54:18Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, that's true.

• 54:20Joe Rogan?

  It's good, though.

• 54:21Speaker 02

  It's, that's a jalapeno cheddar.

• 54:23Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 54:23Speaker 02

  How's it taste? Can you taste it?

• 54:24Joe Rogan?

  The one, the first one I had was jalapeno cheddar?

• 54:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 54:26Joe Rogan?

  It's fucking great. It's really good.

• 54:28Speaker 02

  So good, yeah.

• 54:29Joe Rogan?

  And I know what people saying, oh, you can make anything. Look at that, that's the cat in the backyard.

• 54:34Speaker 02

  Oh, man.

• 54:34Joe Rogan?

  That fucking nuts, man. Look at his eyes.

• 54:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 54:37Joe Rogan?

  Fuck you, man. Fuck you.

• 54:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's a.

• 54:41Joe Rogan?

  Meanwhile, they built a stupid bridge for them and it's, uh, way over budget. It's over a hundred million dollars now for the stupid fucking bridge so they can cross. We have to make sure that the monsters can get across the highway safety.

• 54:52Speaker 02

  Trust me.

• 54:53Joe Rogan?

  I am of a completely different opinion. I say, put one of those fucking big ass grills on your car like I have on my Land Cruiser. And let's hope we get a few of them.

• 55:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 55:01Joe Rogan?

  So they don't kill people's dogs.

• 55:02Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 55:03Joe Rogan?

  Look at this right there.

• 55:04Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's fourteenth, it says, "Knock it on fourteenth."

• 55:06Joe Rogan?

  That is bananas. Look where it is. Like, look how dense, look how dense the housing is there. There's a mountain lion right there.

• 55:14Speaker 02

  And they think a mountain lion's gonna go find this bridge?

• 55:18Joe Rogan?

  Well, they, they probably will eventually find the bridge. But there's a bunch of retards that'll still make their way across the highway and they're supposed to get hit. That's, that's nature.

• 55:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 55:27Joe Rogan?

  Let's figure it out.

• 55:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 55:29Joe Rogan?

  Figure it out.

• 55:30Speaker 02

  Or die.

• 55:30Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, figure it out or die. There's too many of them. They, they're so unrealistic about their mountain lion numbers.

• 55:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 55:37Joe Rogan?

  There's way too many of them. They're all over California because they don't manage.

• 55:41Speaker 02

  That's what we talked, yeah, we talked about that last time and it's like, I just wonder what is, you know, what's the goal because now, you know, I wore this shirt today because now public land is again back in the crosshairs. I don't know if you saw that.

• 55:55Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, what is going on?

• 55:56Speaker 02

  This Mike Lee guy?

• 55:58Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that same guy.

• 55:59Speaker 02

  Same fucking guy from, he, he's trying to like,

• 56:02Joe Rogan?

  That's the Utah guy, right?

• 56:03Speaker 02

  The Utah guy. Um, so right now is like, there's this, this bill that was gonna be introduced. It was like, talking about wildfires essentially. Um, but it's like, uh, it's, what he's done is he's tied in this public land piece to it. Like they always do, there's always these other provisions tied into with all these bills, right?

• 56:24Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 56:25Speaker 02

  And you don't really know what you're agreeing to or what you're not. Um, but he, he put in this, uh, roadless area section. Cause there's four hun- or forty-five million acres of roadless area that he wants access to. Basically, they're not saying this, they're saying for some other reason. I think, oh, here's what they said. We have so many acres of, of roadless area that to fight wildfires, we need roads. Okay? They don't care about fighting wildfires. They care about-

• 56:56Joe Rogan?

  Resource extraction.

• 56:57Speaker 02

  Or development, right?

• 56:58Joe Rogan?

  Maybe development, but development's a tough sell in a lot of those wilderness areas, but what's not a tough sell-

• 57:03Speaker 02

  That's what they tried with this. Remember, remember the affordable housing?

• 57:06Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 57:07Speaker 02

  Like, oh, just the areas-

• 57:08Joe Rogan?

  They tried to say that's what it was.

• 57:09Speaker 02

  That was supposedly affordable housing, which like years ago, I went back and talked to Jason Chaffis. He was, uh, he was a representative there in Utah and I went back there and spoke to him and at that time it was about, uh, surplus acreage. So there's three million surplus acres nobody's using.

• 57:28Joe Rogan?

  Someone told me that has something to do with the Mormon religion. That the Mormon religion has a philosophy about selling land that's very different than our philosophy.

• 57:39Speaker 02

  They might, I'm not sure.

• 57:40Joe Rogan?

  About public land.

• 57:40Speaker 02

  I'm not, and I think-

• 57:41Joe Rogan?

  Somebody told me that. See if there's any reality to that, that, that the Mormons almost have like a mandate to try to sell land?

• 57:50Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 57:51Joe Rogan?

  I don't know if that makes any sense. Um, this is not my thought. Someone told me this and I was like, wait, what? And I don't think I ever looked it up.

• 57:58Speaker 02

  Right. That, I do that too. I've like-

• 58:00Joe Rogan?

  All the time.

• 58:00Speaker 02

  I'm like, I'm, I need to look that up and I never do.

• 58:02Joe Rogan?

  And I never do.

• 58:03Speaker 02

  And then I never know anything more. But, yeah, so I went back, talked to Jason. At that time, it was, uh, surplus acreage. Then this time, it was affordable housing. Now this time, it's wild, wildfire fighting. Which, if you get into the weeds on fighting wildfires, it's, there's, the National Forest Service already has ten billion dollars of road work they need to do on roads that are failing right now. So they're saying, you're gonna add more roads to the ten billion dollars worth of work that the roads already need maintenance on. Don't think so. Um, what, what they're gonna do is, and then also, if you make roads, this, the stats say eighty-five to ninety percent of fires are started within

• 58:44Speaker 02

  a half mile of road, of a road. So, it's not the wilderness areas that are in danger that we need to figure out how to fight fires back there. There's hardly any fires back there. It's always about the roads we've created that we can't maintain, that's where the, the fires are starting, right?

• 58:59Joe Rogan?

  Right, because it's usually people.

• 59:00Speaker 02

  It's, it's, it's human cause. Ninety percent of the time is human-

• 59:03Joe Rogan?

  More lightning.

• 59:03Speaker 02

  It's, that's only like a small percentage of fires that can't be fought.

• 59:07Joe Rogan?

  Here it is. Some Utah politicians who are members of the LDS Mormon church have pushed proposals to sell or transfer federal public lands, but this is a political movement, not an official LDS church program, and other Mormon groups openly oppose it. So Utah's seen more disinformation. Somebody tried to feed me.

• 59:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 59:26Joe Rogan?

  And I kinda helped to spread it.

• 59:28Speaker 02

  Right.

• 59:28Joe Rogan?

  Utah's heavily dominated by federal land. Forty-two percent of the state is managed by the Bureau of Land Management alone, even more under other federal agencies because so much federal, so much of Utah's federal fights over whether to retain, transfer, or sell some of that land. is especially intense there.

• 59:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, this next part is about Mike Lee, which.

• 59:46Joe Rogan?

  Conservative Utah Republicans such as Senator Mike Lee have proposed budget or legislative plans that would make millions of acres of Western public land eligible for sale, arguing it would boost housing or local economies. The housing thing is like, hey, man, fuck you.

• 1:00:03Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:00:04Joe Rogan?

  You're not putting houses in the mountains. I don't believe you.

• 1:00:06Speaker 02

  Well.

• 1:00:07Joe Rogan?

  I think most likely what you're doing is there's natural gas out there or minerals out there or something.

• 1:00:12Speaker 02

  It's a, I mean, they don't care about, first of all, they'd have to build infrastructure out there in the mountains, which, you know, water, power, it's not gonna happen.

• 1:00:21Joe Rogan?

  What is this Wyoming thing? Says that Wyoming case would have been the first time a registered national historic site was sold into private ownership, which is why it drew attention. What are they referring to, though? Oh, a national historic site among Oregon Trail could end up in the hands of private owners at the request of members of the Church of Jesus Christ Latter Day Saints.

• 1:00:44Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:00:45Joe Rogan?

  Oh, so the church tried to purchase public land.

• 1:00:48Speaker 02

  So, down, down to that next one, it says LDS teachings require strong stewardship and specifically advocate preserving and protecting public land. So.

• 1:00:56Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 1:00:58Speaker 02

  That goes against.

• 1:00:59Joe Rogan?

  So it's just politicians.

• 1:01:00Speaker 02

  Like what he's doing. And I think he's like beholden to Trump. Trump's like his errand boy for this public land thing. Because Trump doesn't give a fuck about public land.

• 1:01:09Joe Rogan?

  But his son does. This is what doesn't make any sense. Like, his Donald Trump Jr.

• 1:01:13Speaker 02

  Does he listen to anybody?

• 1:01:15Joe Rogan?

  I don't know.

• 1:01:15Speaker 02

  I don't think so.

• 1:01:16Joe Rogan?

  He listened to me about psychedelics.

• 1:01:18Speaker 02

  Well, that, okay, we'll talk to him about this thing.

• 1:01:21Joe Rogan?

  Is added again with sneaky roadless rule amendment.

• 1:01:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:01:24Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, well, maybe if I see him this weekend. Well, I will see him this weekend, but maybe I'll talk to him about that, but I don't think.

• 1:01:29Speaker 02

  There was a, there was a sentence in there that I just saw. It says ninety-nine percent, right here. Nine, right in the middle. Ninety-nine percent of Americans oppose repealing the roadless rule. Okay, so. Why they work for us, isn't that right? So, the reason why I got to this is because you talked about the mountain lions. It's like, why don't they listen to people, like the public? The public would say, "Yeah, we probably need to hunt mountain lions, keep them manageable."

• 1:01:57Joe Rogan?

  I don't think the public of California would. I think I'm opposed to that. I'm opposed to ballot box biology.

• 1:02:03Speaker 02

  No, no, me too.

• 1:02:04Joe Rogan?

  So they got wolves into Colorado.

• 1:02:06Speaker 02

  But I'm just wondering, like with this, this roadless rule, they didn't ask the public anything.

• 1:02:11Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:02:11Speaker 02

  And 99% of the public oppose it.

• 1:02:14Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's way, I think, I would say way more people oppose that than oppose any kind of hunting thing.

• 1:02:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, I, I'm good with, okay, so on your point then, I want biologists making the decision on hunting.

• 1:02:28Joe Rogan?

  100%.

• 1:02:28Speaker 02

  I don't want politicians making the decision on land use.

• 1:02:32Joe Rogan?

  100%.

• 1:02:33Speaker 02

  All right? So, that's, that's all I'm, that's all I'm saying. It's like, let's have experts in the field decide these things. It's like, who is expert in the field who decided the White House needs a ballroom?

• 1:02:45Joe Rogan?

  Uh, me. I called in, no.

• 1:02:48Speaker 02

  But it's like, how are these decisions being made? Like this roadless rule, this was like a last minute add-on that the public did not get a chance to vote on. How is that, how is that okay?

• 1:02:59Joe Rogan?

  No, it's not okay. It's, it's super fucking sneaky. And I think all of our positions should be like your t-shirt. The Teddy Roosevelt position. Not one acre. Like, we have a amazing system here.

• 1:03:09Speaker 02

  We do.

• 1:03:10Joe Rogan?

  The public land system in the United States is completely unique to the rest of the world. It's very different. And the fact that you can go out there and that is your land. If you're a citizen of the United States of America, public land is your land. And you have access to incredible wilderness, beautiful places. And if you've got the endurance and the ability to go deep in there, you could go to places where there's no fucking people and it's unbelievably pristine wilderness and it's owned by the entire country. And we gotta keep it that way. We can't, we can't let that slippery slope.

• 1:03:45Joe Rogan?

  Get get into play. As soon as they start giving away some of it or selling away some of it, they'll they'll fucking keep going. It it not one acre.

• 1:03:53Speaker 02

  What once once you lose something, you don't get it back.

• 1:03:56Joe Rogan?

  Ever.

• 1:03:57Speaker 02

  And this especially with this public land like at this time when when we all came together. It was outdoorsman in all regards. It was hunting, hiking, fishing. Uh, who whoever uh. Recreators.

• 1:04:10Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:10Speaker 02

  Like. What it's like people who just love and appreciate public lands. We all came together, shot it down. And the public sentiment was was vicious, right? And they couldn't ignore it. We need the same thing now because at this time I know. We did so much. Everybody came together, but when they do these. They wear us down with these. These last minute deals and add on these things because it's like, how many things can you keep fighting and fighting and fighting and you're like? I thought we already got this. Didn't we solve this already? And now it's back.

• 1:04:40Joe Rogan?

  Well, I think that's one of the reasons why they keep so many fucking balls in the air at the same time. Is because you can't fight at all. You know, it's like, do you really care about the Epstein files or do you care about UFO disclosure?

• 1:04:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, I know.

• 1:04:52Joe Rogan?

  The UF UAPs? We're gonna have a big meeting on Monday. We're gonna have a big release on Wednesday.

• 1:04:57Speaker 02

  So.

• 1:04:57Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 1:04:58Speaker 02

  So I think they took. To me, it seems pretty nefarious that they're like, say, oh, we got all these fucking dipshits worried about this roadless rule. Okay, we can distract some of them with aliens. Got an alien stuff, all right? Okay. Oh, we could uh, we could distract some of them with fighting. We got the White House fight coming up. Okay, that's and now all of a sudden now it's way quieter. Because they've distracted some of these core core groups with this other bullshit, right? And it's the bread and circus thing. And like, I kind of agree with Bryce Mitchell, who said this, that it's not for the White House to be putting on. Sporting events. That's not, we hire the government to run our country, not entertain us.

• 1:05:37Joe Rogan?

  True, yeah, no, I, look, I don't like it because I think they should be fighting indoors always. I think world championship fights at the highest level should be fought in a controlled environment. That said, it's gonna be sick.

• 1:05:52Speaker 02

  It's gonna be, it's gonna be, I'm gonna watch.

• 1:05:54Joe Rogan?

  I have two, like, people think, oh, Rogan's negative again, nope, I'm not negative, but I'm not positive either. I don't, if it was me, if I was running the, the UFC, I would never run the UFC. But if I was running the UFC, I would have never wanted to do it.

• 1:06:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:06:09Joe Rogan?

  I would have said, we can't do it, they have to be in a controlled environment, we can't have a world championship fight. We can't have someone win or lose because they're outside and it's muggy.

• 1:06:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:06:18Joe Rogan?

  That doesn't make any sense to me, it's gonna affect the grappling, it's gonna be like hot oil wrestling, everyone's gonna be sweaty as fuck.

• 1:06:23Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:06:24Joe Rogan?

  It's gonna be completely different than, and also your endurance is gonna be less.

• 1:06:28Speaker 02

  No, no submissions going, probably gonna happen.

• 1:06:30Joe Rogan?

  Well, in other, maybe, but also you can get under a neck way quicker.

• 1:06:34Speaker 02

  Oh, right, slide your arm through there, yeah.

• 1:06:37Joe Rogan?

  Cinch up a rear naked choke with someone sweaty, you get, eh, get it right under the chin.

• 1:06:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, that'd be tough.

• 1:06:43Joe Rogan?

  It slides in there, but most grapplers would not prefer that. Most grapplers would prefer an air conditioned arena like normal, it should be fucking seventy-two degrees, just like it always is. You know, it should be air conditioned like it always is.

• 1:06:57Speaker 02

  But even the, the controlling the hands, cause you know, like, if you're top or bottom, like, the big part is like the wrist control.

• 1:07:03Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:04Speaker 02

  Like, if you're sweaty.

• 1:07:05Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:07:06Speaker 02

  That, that's tough, I mean, it changes.

• 1:07:07Joe Rogan?

  In the old days dudes used to lie down in a bathtub filled with baby oil.

• 1:07:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:07:12Joe Rogan?

  And then they would wash it off, and so then they would, uh, you know, get warmed up, and then when they would start sweating, the baby oil would come out of their pores. Cause it's like, when you soak in baby oil for hours, I'm not accusing any individuals doing this, but I know for a fact it happened. And guys would be completely greased up, and you could wipe them down with a towel, it wouldn't matter, I mean, the grease is everywhere, it's in their fucking pores. And as soon as they start sweating, you try to get a hold of them, it's just, weep, it's like trying to hold on to a fucking salmon in the middle of the water, they just slip right out of your fingers.

• 1:07:43Speaker 02

  Well, that happens too if you eat McDonald's all the time, just kinda grease out your pores, so they should try that.

• 1:07:49Joe Rogan?

  Maybe that'll work, I think that'd affect your performance more, but the, uh, the, the sweat is gonna be a big issue. The outside, the bugs, that's gonna be a big issue.

• 1:07:58Speaker 02

  The thunderstorms.

• 1:07:59Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:08:01Speaker 03

  Another forecast, it says starting around 2 o'clock, rain, 3 o'clock thunderstorms, 7 o'clock rain.

• 1:08:08Speaker 02

  It looks great.

• 1:08:09Joe Rogan?

  Oh, by 8 o'clock, it's only showers. Don't be a pussy. Just showers. Yeah, maybe they'll cancel it. Look, I think if they canceled it and moved it indoors, it'd be better for everybody. I don't like it. I think the idea was like they want the, the octagon, the White House behind it. Yeah. For image and everything like that, it's gonna be dope. The card is sick. It's a fucking amazing card. The card, I mean, it's only 7 fights and all of them are bangers from the opening one with Steve Garcia and Diego Lopez. Bam, right off the gate. It's like Bo Nickel and Kyle Donkis. Bam, right off the gate. I mean, it's, it's gonna be a sick fucking card. The card's amazing.

• 1:08:44Speaker 02

  I, I, that does look incredible.

• 1:08:46Joe Rogan?

  That's the lightning catcher that they put over there.

• 1:08:51Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's gonna be nuts. It's gonna be nuts if it happens. But if it rains like crazy, you know. But I mean, everybody will love it if it rains. All the, the people who hate it, "Yeah, rain on those mega fucks."

• 1:09:03Speaker 02

  Oh, God.

• 1:09:04Joe Rogan?

  "You're ruining our country, man."

• 1:09:06Speaker 02

  I know.

• 1:09:07Joe Rogan?

  It's a very divided time.

• 1:09:09Speaker 02

  Oh, it's, it's nuts.

• 1:09:11Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but, um, like I said, my concern is for the athletes. A fighter's career is very short. A loss is devastating and to not have perfect conditions to fight in, I think it's crazy.

• 1:09:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:09:26Joe Rogan?

  But it's also gonna be sick. It's like being there is gonna be nuts and maybe it's worth it. I don't know. We'll find out.

• 1:09:33Speaker 02

  Well, you, you gotta hand it to Dana for going big like he always does.

• 1:09:37Joe Rogan?

  He always does.

• 1:09:38Speaker 02

  I mean, you know, they-

• 1:09:39Joe Rogan?

  He always does.

• 1:09:39Speaker 02

  He was at the, the Sphere in Vegas, right? It's like, wasn't, that was out of the box, but it was amazing.

• 1:09:47Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that was sick. That was a one-time-only thing. That was so much money. But this is a one-time-only thing supposedly too, but apparently Trump doesn't want to take the octagon down. He wants to leave it up.

• 1:09:56Speaker 02

  Really? I don't know, man.

• 1:10:02Joe Rogan?

  I think it'd be great. Have guys like, you know, come in and train at the White House for a couple of weeks. That'd be the next gimmick. I mean, why not? Fuck it.

• 1:10:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:10:12Joe Rogan?

  The whole thing's chaos anyway.

• 1:10:13Speaker 02

  It's a crazy time.

• 1:10:15Joe Rogan?

  I mean, Biden could have a giant LBGT flag in front of the White House and have trans people pulling their breasts out. Remember that? You know, like, they had Big Pride Day. They had a big pride flag in front of the White House.

• 1:10:25Speaker 02

  I'll take, I'll take this over that.

• 1:10:26Joe Rogan?

  It's like, all of it is silly.

• 1:10:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:10:29Joe Rogan?

  It's also, that should have nothing to do with the White House. This should have nothing to do with the White House.

• 1:10:32Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:10:33Joe Rogan?

  But, you know, and then there's a lawsuit right now. Like, people are trying to sue to keep the UFC out the way. They'll probably lose.

• 1:10:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:10:41Joe Rogan?

  I don't, I'm not a lawyer. I don't know. But I would imagine they're not gonna win.

• 1:10:44Speaker 02

  I'm a, I'm a huge fighting fan, UFC fan. You know, Dana White is like an icon. I love all the fighters. I just love everything about it. It's a, I just, you know, I kind of agree with Bryce Mitchell's take on it, which you can get in trouble with agreeing with him because he has a lot of takes. But, uh, but on this one, I, I kind of get it. And, um, yeah, I mean, I don't blame the fighters at all for jumping at this opportunity.

• 1:11:10Joe Rogan?

  No, they have to do it.

• 1:11:11Speaker 02

  The whole world's gonna watch.

• 1:11:12Joe Rogan?

  It's gonna be probably the most watched sporting event, maybe in history.

• 1:11:18Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:11:19Joe Rogan?

  I mean, uh, it's on Paramount, so it'll be on CBS as well, right? So it'll be probably avail, is it on CBS? So it's on CBS as well. So it'll be available to everybody. And then all the haters are gonna watch it too.

• 1:11:32Speaker 02

  Oh, for sure.

• 1:11:32Joe Rogan?

  They're gonna wanna talk shit.

• 1:11:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:11:34Joe Rogan?

  So it'll probably be covered on CNN, what a disaster it was. And they've already talked a lot about how I'm not into it. But I have to be honest about what I'm into and what I'm not into. I can't just agree with something if I don't agree with it. I'll be respectful. I'll, you know, I'm obviously a huge fan of the UFC. And it's always an honor to work for them and I love it. But I don't like it. But I'll still.

• 1:12:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:12:00Joe Rogan?

  When I'm there, I'm like, oh, this is sick.

• 1:12:02Speaker 02

  Oh, for sure.

• 1:12:02Joe Rogan?

  And maybe after it's over, I'm like, they were right. Or maybe it'll be like, oh, it fucking rained. It was, what a shit show.

• 1:12:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:12:08Joe Rogan?

  It was lightning that canceled the fights. It was a huge disaster for CBS.

• 1:12:11Speaker 02

  It's live sports. It's like, you never know.

• 1:12:14Joe Rogan?

  I mean, if they pull the entire audience out and just have the guys fight in the cage, under the canopy, now I'm in.

• 1:12:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's like Apex style.

• 1:12:22Joe Rogan?

  Now I like it. Now I like it. No crowd, just us, just me, DC and Anik.

• 1:12:27Speaker 02

  Ooh.

• 1:12:27Joe Rogan?

  Woo.

• 1:12:28Speaker 02

  That'd be pretty fun.

• 1:12:29Joe Rogan?

  Now I like it. Now I like it. And, you know, we're protected by the rain, but everybody else isn't, so they all have to leave. Fuck, yeah. Cause I think it's gonna be also a lot of like, look at me. People are gonna dress up nice for it and like, cause they know they're gonna be on television.

• 1:12:43Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:12:44Joe Rogan?

  And it's, you know, I get it. But I, it's really, for me, it's about the fights. There's, there's gigantic fights on that card. The Justin Gagey-Ilya Toporia fight. I am very interested in that fight. I'm very interested in that fight. I really wish it was like at the T-Mobile or Madison Square Garden or whatever, but who cares? I, I, that's a fight I have a lot of questions about. I need to see that fight happen.

• 1:13:07Speaker 02

  I mean, Justin's quite a bit bigger, but Ilya is so skilled.

• 1:13:11Joe Rogan?

  Bro, he is. I watched a, a whole, um, I watched his entire career last night.

• 1:13:16Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:13:17Joe Rogan?

  So there was a, the UFC put out a video about Ilya saying, is Ilya Toporia the GOAT? And it goes from his first fight, um, uh, in the UFC, to his last victory. And you watch every single fight of his career. And you watch him get better over time. And, you know, it gets deeper into his career. And then you, you see his last three fights and you're like, good lord.

• 1:13:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:13:44Joe Rogan?

  He was awesome when he first entered the UFC, but he just kept getting better. So the Yusuf Zalal fights, the first fight, that goes to a decision, you know, um, and, and then, um, uh, you, you watch the progression. He starts KOing people.

• 1:14:01Speaker 02

  His last three KOs over the biggest stars?

• 1:14:03Joe Rogan?

  They're some of the greatest of all time.

• 1:14:05Speaker 02

  Max.

• 1:14:06Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:07Speaker 02

  Who, who?

• 1:14:08Joe Rogan?

  Charles Olivera.

• 1:14:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:14:09Joe Rogan?

  Charles Olivera, one of the greatest of all times, Max Holloway, one of the greatest of all times, and then Alexander Volkanovski, the greatest featherweight of all time.

• 1:14:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:14:18Joe Rogan?

  Like fucking crazy, man.

• 1:14:20Speaker 02

  Knocked them out.

• 1:14:20Joe Rogan?

  Knocked all three of them out.

• 1:14:22Speaker 02

  How?

• 1:14:22Joe Rogan?

  That's one of the greatest resumes of all time. CBS won't air UFC White House event. Viewers would need Paramount Plus to watch. What happened? Did they back out of it?

• 1:14:32Speaker 02

  This is news to me, I just saw. Huh.

• 1:14:34Joe Rogan?

  Oh. They would not tell about it, uh, that means you're... I wonder if like Paramount, White decided, uh, cited the plan to tell America's story during the show as the reason CBS would not be involved. What? The plan to tell America's story?

• 1:14:52Speaker 02

  What? That doesn't even make sense.

• 1:14:53Joe Rogan?

  What does that mean? Uh, we don't want to talk about America's story on CBS? No, because there's only X number of fights and it starts from the first one, White said. We start at the beginning of time and like the Mexican Independence Day fight, we're gonna have the story of America from the first fight to the last, so no, they'll all be on Paramount. So, it's gonna start out with European settlers coming over and giving everyone smallpox. And then you're gonna see all the Indians die and then we're gonna go, oh, look at all these buffalo, because there's no one there to kill them. And then we're gonna see people come across on wagon trains and kill each other. It should be fun.

• 1:15:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:15:27Joe Rogan?

  It's gonna be-

• 1:15:28Speaker 02

  Sounds like a good story.

• 1:15:28Joe Rogan?

  It's gonna be a very accurate story of how the United States started. It'll start from ba- back when we fucked up Mexico and like, what was that, 1861 to get Texas? No, what year did they... No, it was like 1821, wasn't it? Like that, that Mexico owned Texas? We'll, we'll start from the beginning. We'll go all the way to buying Alaska for like 50 bucks.

• 1:15:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, people love it. Why wouldn't you want to-

• 1:15:58Joe Rogan?

  It'd be good, it'd be good, it'd be great.

• 1:15:59Speaker 02

  It, yeah, it's a... I don't know, it's, it's gonna be a spectacle for sure. I'll be tuning in.

• 1:16:06Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. This episode is brought to you by Chime. And I know people don't usually get excited about banking, but Chime is doing something different and it's worth paying attention to. In a recent survey, they ranked the number one choice for new checking accounts in America. That means real people, millions of them, are choosing this over traditional banks. That's because banking at Chime is fee-free. No monthly fees, no overdraft fees, and thousands of fee-free ATMs. But here's the real kicker. If you get their Chime card, it gives you 5% cash back on a category you actually pick yourself. Your savings rate, crazy high. It's nine times the national average. They're calling it the most rewarding way to bank. Go to chime.com/rogan.

• 1:16:51Joe Rogan?

  Takes a few minutes to sign up. Chime is a fintech, not a bank. Banking services and Chime card, provided by Chime's bank partners. Terms and limits apply. Go to chime.com/disclosures for more details. This episode is brought to you by Noco. You're miles from home, you turn the key, nothing. Dead battery. Normally, that means finding another car, someone willing to give you a jump, and dealing with old jumper cables. But what if you didn't need any of that? Keep a Noco portable jump starter in your glove box and jump start your car yourself. No cables, no second vehicle, no waiting for help. It also works as a power bank and has a built-in LED flashlight.

• 1:17:35Joe Rogan?

  Noco, the end of jumper cables. Use code ROGEN10 for 10% off. Select jump starters at n o dot c o. But I'll be there.

• 1:17:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's gonna be, you're at the White House all the time now.

• 1:17:50Joe Rogan?

  I've been there a couple of times. Yeah, it's weird. It's very weird. It's also very weird because as much as people hate Trump and hate his decisions and hate what he's doing and hate how he talks and I... My experiences with him personally have always been fun, unfortunately.

• 1:18:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:18:07Joe Rogan?

  Unfortunately for everybody else. Like, uh, you know, if he likes you and you're on his good side, he's a fun guy to be around. He says a lot of fun shit. The fucking man loves America. He genuinely does. He really does. Like, he wants to make the White House look better. He wants to build this ballroom because he want, like, he has good intentions in terms of America. It's just, there is not a single fucking person that's ever taken the job of the President of the United States that's loved by everybody.

• 1:18:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:18:38Joe Rogan?

  But his, the, the issues that he's having right now is a lot of the stuff that is going on in this country is contrary to what people voted for. And that's what people are upset about. The war, the war specifically.

• 1:18:52Speaker 02

  That, I don't, you know, we voted for protecting the border.

• 1:18:57Joe Rogan?

  Uh huh.

• 1:18:58Speaker 02

  Um.

• 1:18:59Joe Rogan?

  And they did that.

• 1:19:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's, uh, or American manufacturing, um, protecting America's interests, like with trade, with, uh, just protecting people's jobs. So we have a, a way to, to work and provide for our family. America first. That was what, that sounded good to me. And it feels like this isn't any of that. Like, I, it feels like even his administration at first, I was just like, oh, fuck, these are some, this is good. But it feels like if you go against him in any way, you're fucking gone.

• 1:19:33Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's that for sure. And then it's also, you know, the amount of political pressure. You know, you have to make deals, right? So you've got the pharmaceutical drug companies that are trying to squeeze this in there. And then you've got the oil companies trying to squeeze that, and the military is trying to squeeze this. And there's a lot of compromises that have to be made. And that's where things get dark.

• 1:19:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:19:54Joe Rogan?

  Because there's people that come in with these ideas that we're gonna fix this and clean that. Like, I've had long conversations with RFK. And that guy's in struggle all day. It's a battle all day.

• 1:20:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:20:06Joe Rogan?

  It's dealing with all these pressures and. Look, they've made a lot of headway. They've made a lot of headway with with peptides. They made a lot of headway with eliminating some of these unnecessary food dyes and all these different things that we've been subject to, but they lost with glyphosate.

• 1:20:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:20:24Joe Rogan?

  And that was a big one, man. Glyphosate was a big one.

• 1:20:27Speaker 02

  It's poison.

• 1:20:27Joe Rogan?

  You know, I've got a guy coming on who's an expert in it that's gonna talk about it soon, and it it is, the the people that are gaslighting you to say it's not an issue, we don't really know how much of the health problems that a lot of people have who consume glyphosate ridden products have. We don't know how much it's affecting you. What is it taking away from your immune system? What is it taking away from, how much is your body processing this fucking toxic herbicide?

• 1:20:56Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:20:57Joe Rogan?

  That's in your system versus, I mean, how much of that is contributing to people's health problems?

• 1:21:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:21:02Joe Rogan?

  There's a lot of people that think that that's what a lot of this gluten allergy shit is, that people are just reacting to

• 1:21:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:21:08Joe Rogan?

  bromate and pesticides and herbicides.

• 1:21:11Speaker 02

  But what's that stat with Iowa being the center for glyphosate, basically, with all the agriculture there, and then that's like the hotbed for cancer?

• 1:21:19Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:20Speaker 02

  I mean,

• 1:21:20Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:21Speaker 02

  you don't have to look very far to see that connection.

• 1:21:23Joe Rogan?

  No, you don't. No, well, you know, that was also back in the day when people were, when people talk about the polio epidemic, you can't talk about the polio epidemic without also talking about spraying of DDT all over the fucking country, because DDT poisoning has the exact same reaction, the body has the exact same reaction as polo, as paralytic polo, polio.

• 1:21:46Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 1:21:46Joe Rogan?

  Polo. Polio.

• 1:21:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:21:48Joe Rogan?

  You know, the disease, like, there's this woman who wrote a great book on it, um, Suzanne Humphries, is called Dissolving Illusions, and it's all about that and all about like, first of all, they were spraying it behind cars in streets where children were playing. And people were getting

• 1:22:09Speaker 02

  I remember seeing kids like running through it.

• 1:22:11Joe Rogan?

  But it wasn't just people that were getting polio. This is part of the problem with the narrative that it's polio. Animals were getting polio. Like animals were getting polio, but they don't get polio. It doesn't spread to animals, but their horses and fucking cows were getting paralyzed. They were getting the same symptoms because it's fucking DDT poisoning. And here's the craziest one. What percentage of polio is asymptomatic? Meaning you get it and you have no symptoms?

• 1:22:37Speaker 02

  I don't know.

• 1:22:38Joe Rogan?

  Ninety-five to ninety-nine percent.

• 1:22:40Speaker 02

  Really?

• 1:22:41Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:41Speaker 02

  So it's people have it.

• 1:22:43Joe Rogan?

  This, it's DDT.

• 1:22:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:22:45Joe Rogan?

  It's DDT. That, I mean, look, it's not saying that some people that are very sick and immune compromised. Get polio and get fucked up and die. Of course, polio is bad. Thousands of people die every year from the flu. Flu is bad, right? Okay, but you know what else is bad? DDT. And you know what else is going on when everybody was going through this whole polio epidemic? Fucking spraying DDT everywhere. And most people are ignorant to it.

• 1:23:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:23:08Joe Rogan?

  And you bring it up, they call you a conspiracy theorist, but it's fucking fact.

• 1:23:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:23:12Joe Rogan?

  It's undeniable.

• 1:23:14Speaker 02

  Well, I, I was like, you know, the controlling the weather. I was like, that's conspiracy. But then I started seeing the planes like laying the fucking clouds out. Have you seen, have you seen it?

• 1:23:26Joe Rogan?

  Yes and no. Okay, so I actually did a show on this.

• 1:23:30Speaker 02

  You did?

• 1:23:30Joe Rogan?

  Yes. I did it, not an episode of the podcast. I did an episode of Joe Rogan Questions Everything. Remember that show that I used to do way back in the day? We did a whole episode on chemtrails and one of the things we found, first of all. The reason why it looks like that, this is just a fact. The reason why it looks like that is there's condensation in the atmosphere. You have a hot jet engine. It's passing through this cool air. And the hot jet engine and the cool wet air creates clouds. Those clouds are real. It's artificial clouds.

• 1:23:59Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:23:59Joe Rogan?

  Also, they spray shit in the air.

• 1:24:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:24:02Joe Rogan?

  Oh, two things are happening at the same time.

• 1:24:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, cuz you see the normal planes, you see the normal jet stream, you're like, okay, checks out. Then you see the other ones and it's a different jet stream.

• 1:24:13Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but it doesn't matter the cond- the cond- the condensation in the atmosphere is inconsistent.

• 1:24:17Speaker 02

  But they're making-

• 1:24:18Joe Rogan?

  Just like clouds are inconsistent.

• 1:24:19Speaker 02

  But you can, we- we watched them the other day make laps.

• 1:24:22Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but it might not be the same plane. It might just be a route. Right? You're not watching the entire plane go all the way down land and come back.

• 1:24:29Speaker 02

  No, no, but-

• 1:24:30Joe Rogan?

  But you're watching consistent plane travel routes. But that's why it looks like that, but it's just days where there's a lot of condensation in the atmosphere. Dude, I'm telling you, listen. Those planes, if you're looking at a Southwest flight and like that, they're not spraying. Okay, but some planes spray shit. And there are some weather modification experiments they do that are completely top secret. They don't let anybody know about it. They do cloud seeding, they cause floods. Look at what happened with fucking Dubai. You ever see that Dubai shit? Where Lamborghinis are floating down the highway? That is people fucking with the environment.

• 1:25:07Speaker 02

  That's what I thought was conspiracy before, which I don't now.

• 1:25:11Joe Rogan?

  No, it's real. Well Abu Dhabi does it every week. Abu Dhabi makes it rain every week with cloud seeding. And because they're rich. They're like, fuck it, make it rain, make it rain. And so, there's- there's real weather modification. Now that's, there's cloud seeding and then there's experimental shit. Like some of the shit that like Bill Gates was talking about, like spraying reflective particles in the atmosphere to block out the sun like, "Hey fuckface, who are you to make a decision for the whole world to cool the world? You didn't even graduate college. Shut the fuck up." Like this is crazy and also the unintended consequences of any action that has never been taken before.

• 1:25:52Joe Rogan?

  Like cooling off the fucking planet. What if this dipshit starts the next ice age and everybody fucking dies?

• 1:25:57Speaker 02

  Right, I know. I mean-

• 1:26:00Joe Rogan?

  Get the fuck out of the air. Leave us alone. Stop playing god. You don't know what you're doing and also, do you have any money invested in any of these projects that are attached to this?

• 1:26:10Speaker 02

  For sure. This, you know- We talk about all this stuff, you know, oh, I didn't want to say this. So for public land, I want to say this is part of my notes. Call your senators, say you want the roadless rule kept intact. Say, we don't want to get rid of, of the 45 million acres that, that are going to be protected with the roadless rule, but to call your senators is 202-224-3121. Say, say you, you want the roadless rules kept intact and we have to, we have to let our voices heard. Our voice was heard on this not one acre. We won that one. We have to do it again. You have to call your senators and say, and just voice your concerns.

• 1:26:50Joe Rogan?

  It's a slippery slope. You can't let them have any ground.

• 1:26:53Speaker 02

  But like what I, um, here's what this thing was really pissed me off because as I said, the administration at first, I thought, okay, we got some, we have some good pipe hitters in there. It feels like they do what Trump says. If they don't, they're gone. They're like, they're the scapegoat for whatever failed. They're out of there. Um, you can see the writing on the wall. Like I don't, I was, I wanted Tulsi to get in there and kick ass because I knew how she felt about the war in Iran and, and like that would have, how detrimental that would be. So I was like, I, I believed in her and now with her husband getting sick and now she's out of there. But it feels like people are, it's

• 1:27:37Speaker 02

  like, if you stand up for something, you're gone. And now they got this Mark Wayne Mullen in there who just two days ago for this roadless rule, he unwinded 31 laws that were going to protect the, the public land, right? Just 31 laws. He just said, yeah, those aren't going to apply anymore because we need to, they awarded a $1.7 billion contract to build a wall in Texas at Big Ben National Park. 1.7 million, billion dollars has been awarded and it wasn't even bid to build this wall in Big Ben National Park here. It's like, how? The public doesn't want that. We don't want a fucking wall.

• 1:28:18Joe Rogan?

  What's the wall for?

• 1:28:19Speaker 02

  They're saying for border protection. And if you look at like where the border crossings are, it's not in the middle of the fucking park.

• 1:28:28Joe Rogan?

  So what do you think that wall's really for?

• 1:28:30Speaker 02

  I don't know. Fucking up national, a national park, one of the most pristine places in Texas. I don't know what the goal is, but.

• 1:28:38Joe Rogan?

  Have you read into it, though? Is there any arguments pro and con that the walls?

• 1:28:42Speaker 02

  I'm sure there is. I'm sure it's for border protection. I mean, maybe Jamie can look it up.

• 1:28:46Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, let's see if there's, is there like a lot of crossing?

• 1:28:49Speaker 02

  Public input on it again.

• 1:28:51Joe Rogan?

  Right. That's a problem. And the, the problem is, again, they can come up with reasons.

• 1:28:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:28:57Joe Rogan?

  Why, you know, they have to make some new laws because, well, we gotta protect people.

• 1:29:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:29:03Joe Rogan?

  And that's how the slippery slope begins.

• 1:29:04Speaker 02

  It was a COVID, like, you know, safe and effective, protect your communities. It's like, do this for safety. Well, it's the same thing.

• 1:29:11Joe Rogan?

  Trump administration will bypass environmental laws for border project in Big Bend National Park. So what is, does it say what the argument for it is? According to preliminary federal notice, latest regulatory waiver will apply to more than 100 miles of US Mexico border. So it's a border law.

• 1:29:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:29:29Joe Rogan?

  From near clo- near the closed canyon trail in Big Bend Ranch State Park, through the entirety of Big Bend National Park into remote parts of southeastern Brewster County. In the notice, Homeland Security Mark Wayne Mullen wrote, "The administration is bypassing a wide range of laws to ensure the expeditious, expeditious construction of barriers and roads along the southern border." While US Customs and Border Protection continues to insist it will not build a 30-foot-tall steel border wall in either the state or national park, the agency's current plans call for a mix of vehicle barriers, surveillance technology, and patrol road upgrades in the parks as a part of a project dubbed,

• 1:30:14Joe Rogan?

  dubbed Big Bend Four.

• 1:30:17Speaker 02

  So this is like not, not listening to the experts again. Six former superintendents of Big Bend National Park penned a letter to Mullen urging him not to take such steps. So, again, not listening to the experts. Just like the ballot box biology, just doing whatever the fuck they want. Doesn't matter what the public or the expert thinks, they're gonna, thinks they're gonna do it. Award these bids to the, probably some construction outfit. This guy's invested in for $1.7 billion with no bid. It's like, how is this, how is this okay?

• 1:30:46Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's very, I don't understand it. Is there a lot of crossings in there?

• 1:30:51Speaker 02

  No, there's not. That's the thing. They have where all the crossings happen. There's like this tiniest percentage in that park.

• 1:30:58Joe Rogan?

  Cause it seems like it's probably a very remote area of Mexico that it connects to as well, right? So it'd be very difficult to get through that way. And also, if you're gonna get through that way, like, good lord.

• 1:31:09Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:31:09Joe Rogan?

  You're going into like tough country.

• 1:31:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, and you know, that's, that's good elk country down there. I know people who hunt.

• 1:31:16Joe Rogan?

  Uh huh. West Texas.

• 1:31:18Speaker 02

  Good, good bulls.

• 1:31:20Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, so it's like, I just, I don't know, it's a, so if you look at the millions of Americans who treasure Big Bend, you know, they don't want construction down there. And especially if, if we voted on it, fine. If there was a reason, fine. But it was never voted on.

• 1:31:36Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it says, uh, "The horrific plans are in front to the millions of Americans who treasure Big Bend." Lakin Jordan, uh, an advocate with the Center for Biological Diversity said in a statement, "Politicians who've never set foot here are signing a death warrant for this wild and beautiful place."

• 1:31:52Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:31:53Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:54Speaker 02

  And that's, you know, I've heard somebody, you know, pretty close with Trump tell me that he's never walked on dirt before.

• 1:32:00Joe Rogan?

  Trump has never walked on dirt? He plays golf. Has to have walked on dirt.

• 1:32:04Speaker 02

  Grass, baby. Grass and sand.

• 1:32:07Speaker 03

  Not on his course.

• 1:32:08Speaker 02

  But the, but the point is, it's like, somebody who doesn't appreciate public land, they don't give a fuck about this.

• 1:32:14Joe Rogan?

  No, they don't give a fuck and they don't, they're not gonna see it and they never would see it.

• 1:32:18Speaker 02

  But.

• 1:32:21Joe Rogan?

  There as well? Same spot. Same spot?

• 1:32:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:32:24Joe Rogan?

  Look, um, they have to protect the border, but if there's not a lot of crossings there, and all of a sudden you wanna spend all this money to build a steel border, like, who's getting the contract?

• 1:32:34Speaker 02

  Yeah. And just to award that with no bid, it's just not, that's not, I were, I was a, a public buyer. That's not how it works. You're spending public money. You can't just spend public money without a bid.

• 1:32:46Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:32:47Speaker 02

  I mean, but they bypass all this shit that has the checks and balance in place to ensure that we're making good decisions with public money, and they bypass it all.

• 1:32:57Speaker 02

  And then you know who suffers here? It's the people who don't have, like, so- some people, they go to the park for mental health. They wanna go camp. They want, it's like, they might not have two nickels to their name, but they're in appreciating nature. That's why public land is so important because that gives purpose to people like me who's less like, "I gotta get out of this shit hole city and go recharge," right? So for people who don't appreciate that or care about that, that's wasted land. It's like, we could have a shopping mall, we could have investors doing this, we could have, make this work, because right now, they, they would say that, "Well, not everybody can, can, um, take advantage of this because you have to hike, you have to do these things. So we wanna make it more accessible so more people can enjoy it." No.

• 1:33:42Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:43Speaker 02

  That's, that's not how it works.

• 1:33:44Joe Rogan?

  You're gonna fuck it up.

• 1:33:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:33:46Joe Rogan?

  You can't just have helicopter landing plaids all over the fucking woods.

• 1:33:50Speaker 02

  There's, there's your, yeah, there's your contract.

• 1:33:52Joe Rogan?

  Spike in border wall spending goes mostly to two firms with GOP White House ties. Construction contracts, including $2.6 billion awarded this week, are being awarded to, at a historic scale, through a streamlined process that could put Trump on track to realize his vision for a border wall.

• 1:34:13Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm. Yeah. See, that streamlined process?

• 1:34:16Joe Rogan?

  Oh.

• 1:34:16Speaker 02

  That was bypassing 31 laws.

• 1:34:19Joe Rogan?

  And, so what's there now? Like, what is the border now between Mexico and the United States in that area? Is it just land? Like, you just walk right, right across?

• 1:34:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's probably the river.

• 1:34:31Joe Rogan?

  Like, what is it, what is the border? Can we find that out, Jamie? Does it say? Oh, it doesn't say, but I'll look. Okay, let's just look.

• 1:34:38Speaker 02

  Go, go up a little bit?

• 1:34:39Joe Rogan?

  Let's look at the map.

• 1:34:39Speaker 02

  Okay, yeah.

• 1:34:40Joe Rogan?

  And see what the map looks like.

• 1:34:48Joe Rogan?

  Okay, let's see.

• 1:34:54Joe Rogan?

  So that's where it is?

• 1:34:58Joe Rogan?

  So is that the river that blocks it?

• 1:35:00Speaker 03

  Well, the river blocks the whole bottom of the border technically.

• 1:35:03Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:35:03Speaker 03

  There's certain parts of the river.

• 1:35:04Joe Rogan?

  But it's not that hard to get across that river.

• 1:35:07Speaker 02

  Look at that one. Well, I mean, people aren't going to go there to cross.

• 1:35:11Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy. Look how beautiful that is.

• 1:35:13Speaker 02

  It's amazing.

• 1:35:14Joe Rogan?

  God, that's so beautiful.

• 1:35:15Speaker 02

  No, they're not going there to cross.

• 1:35:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's all mountainous. I don't know. I mean, it's hard to see actually.

• 1:35:22Joe Rogan?

  Where's the most border crossings?

• 1:35:27Joe Rogan?

  For a while, it was like where they had that road where they were just letting people through.

• 1:35:30Speaker 02

  The most border crossings are actually in Arizona.

• 1:35:33Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 1:35:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm almost positive. So I'm sure Jamie's going to find it here.

• 1:35:37Speaker 03

  Well, I'm asking you how many happen through Big Ben.

• 1:35:40Joe Rogan?

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• 1:37:37Speaker 02

  National Park.

• 1:37:38Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:37:39Speaker 02

  Yeah. Fucking one.

• 1:37:41Joe Rogan?

  30. Gotta stop them. $84 billion.

• 1:37:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's just like, God. I don't know, just stuff like this. So what happens is like, you get distracted with the Israel, the bombing of the girls' school, the Epstein files, and then they do shit like this.

• 1:37:56Joe Rogan?

  Okay, the only official border crossing inside Big Ben National Park is the Boca Ribeiro's port of entry, and it sees on the order of about 10,000 legal crossings by visitors per year, plus a relatively small number of unauthorized crossings compared with other parts of the US-Mexico border.

• 1:38:13Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:38:14Joe Rogan?

  What exists in Big Ben? Big Ben National Park shares about 118 miles of border with Mexico along the Rio Grande. The only legal port of entry actually inside the park is Boca Ribeiro's Crossing, small pedestrian-only crossing to the Boca Ribeiro's, Del Carmen, Mexico. National Park Service information and travel videos describe Boca Ribeiro's as handling roughly 10,000 visitor crossings per year.

• 1:38:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, those are mostly all legal, so 734.

• 1:38:42Joe Rogan?

  Border Patrol Sector sees only a fraction of total Southwest border crossings. One report cited 734 people documented crossing in that sector by more than 27,000 along the entire US-Mexico border in a given period. And like, what year was that? Where it was 734? Was that before they shut down the border? It's really crazy how many people came in the country.

• 1:39:10Speaker 02

  Oh, I know.

• 1:39:11Joe Rogan?

  The fact that over four years, it's north of 10 million, and I've talked to people that think it's 20.

• 1:39:19Speaker 02

  Doesn't say.

• 1:39:20Joe Rogan?

  Doesn't say?

• 1:39:21Speaker 02

  No. And it it just shows those out of the 27,000, but it doesn't say they're illegal.

• 1:39:26Joe Rogan?

  So it's not a hotspot of crossing.

• 1:39:28Speaker 02

  The last, the last slide there said, it says, the smallest fraction is illegal.

• 1:39:35Joe Rogan?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:39:35Speaker 02

  Of that 734, those were like total crossings in that area. The smallest fraction was illegal. So it's no, it's not, it's BS.

• 1:39:42Joe Rogan?

  Right. It's BS. And they're just gonna do it because they got a nice contract.

• 1:39:47Speaker 02

  And they.

• 1:39:47Joe Rogan?

  That wall, beautiful wall.

• 1:39:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, but why?

• 1:39:50Joe Rogan?

  Giant wall.

• 1:39:52Speaker 02

  In the national park?

• 1:39:53Joe Rogan?

  No. Um, the Washington Post reported last week, the skyrocketing border wall contracts now totally more than 19.4 billion in the last six months have mostly gone to Bernard and Fisher. That's prompted a lawsuit against the Trump administration from a would be rival border wall builder, who claims that the government doled out billions in contracts without genuine competitive opportunities.

• 1:40:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:40:18Joe Rogan?

  Alright.

• 1:40:19Speaker 02

  See, that's illegal. I mean, but that's what they're doing.

• 1:40:22Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. No bueno.

• 1:40:25Speaker 02

  No. And so, but, but as I was saying, they distract us with all this other stuff and push through shit like this. Like, who knows what a senate, what the senate or house is voting on, on a fucking Tuesday? Well, it was this public land thing. And, you know, just add it in, in the middle of the night. We have no, no say on it. We're distracted with all this fights at the UFC with Israel doing whatever the fuck they're doing. And it's just like, oh, we just lost all this public land too. And it's like, it's, it's impossible to keep up on.

• 1:40:58Speaker 02

  That's what's frustrating.

• 1:40:59Joe Rogan?

  You know what's not frustrating? This bear meat. It's pretty fucking good.

• 1:41:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's, that's, that's a man.

• 1:41:06Joe Rogan?

  That's legit.

• 1:41:07Speaker 02

  What, what? Okay. So that.

• 1:41:10Joe Rogan?

  So what can be done? This bill hasn't passed, right?

• 1:41:13Speaker 02

  No, now it's gonna go to the senate. So it was in the house. This, then here's what, here's the problem. So this was originally this roadless rule is bipartisan. Everybody agreed, let's protect this. Now with Mike Lee adding this language in there. Now it's turned, now there's lines in the sand. And nine Republican senators voted with the Democrats on this to allow this, the roadless rule to be in there. So now it goes to the full Senate. Now they're going to need whatever the percentage is, I think 60% of a full Senate vote for it to pass. So we'll see.

• 1:41:56Joe Rogan?

  So now the scumbag lobbyists get involved.

• 1:41:59Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:41:59Joe Rogan?

  And they start pressuring people and help you do this and I'll do that and help me here and I'll help you there.

• 1:42:04Speaker 02

  When they get overwhelmed because of switchboards, if people call that 202 number, like I said, then that makes it to everybody.

• 1:42:12Joe Rogan?

  What's that number again?

• 1:42:13Speaker 02

  202-224-3421. Say you want to keep the roadless rule intact. You don't want to sell off public lands. You don't want to, this is all BS. But they do this and yeah, the lobbyists get involved. And what happens is like, what happened with the big beautiful bill is this part was in there and Trump wanted it in there, but it was causing such a friction. He was just like, I want my big beautiful bill passed. These guys are fucking it up with this public land stuff. Pull that out. Let's get this through. So they did. They pulled out this, we saved the public land. Who knows what we lost that was also attached. But anyway, we saved public land at that time. They were going to, for affordable housing. Same thing has to happen here.

• 1:42:56Speaker 02

  He's got this language added into the shit that they're already working on that changes. You know, we've had, we've had this in place for decades and it's worked, right? So we have to say, no, we're not down with this. And they have to pull it out again.

• 1:43:10Joe Rogan?

  Well, I hope we can get it through. We'll push it. You got it up on social media where people can see it on Cameron Hanes Instagram?

• 1:43:17Speaker 02

  I will for sure, but it's like.

• 1:43:21Speaker 02

  You know, it's, this is so important because it's so important to people without a voice. So it's like, I feel sometimes like, how did I get in this position? I know you do too, like where you're at the White House. You're just like, how the, how the fuck could somebody like me earn this opportunity?

• 1:43:38Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:43:39Speaker 02

  You've earned it through decades and decades of work, of being curious, of being fair, of being positive, of caring, and now people want to come on and share their thoughts with you. That gives you a platform. You've created the most powerful voice probably in the world at, in, in sometimes. And so you get invited to the White House and I know, like for me, I know they've used me there before. Like, yeah, I, I created value in myself. They invited me there for Veterans Day and I said, no, I'm not going because I don't fucking agree with this war in Iran. I don't agree with all this shit. I don't want to go and have a picture in the fucking White House. So people could be like, see, see you, you fucking, you're part of this.

• 1:44:22Speaker 02

  You, you know, because we did, we, we thought that Trump was the best option at the last election. I did, I have a hundred percent believed he was better.

• 1:44:30Joe Rogan?

  The thing is, he might still have been the best option.

• 1:44:32Speaker 02

  He might be, but it, and, and that's fine.

• 1:44:35Joe Rogan?

  We don't know what would have happened if the Kamala Harris administration had been a continuation of the Biden administration.

• 1:44:42Speaker 02

  I don't want people coming in the border unchecked by the millions. I didn't want that. I didn't want, you know, the celebration of transgenderism. I have no problem with transgenders or crossdressers or any, I have no problem or gay or anything like that. I just don't want it promoted just crazily to our youth. That's it. I don't want youth getting surgery that their parents don't know about because they can't have a say in it now. I don't, I didn't want any of that. So of course I'm going to vote for Trump, right? Now I don't like any of this shit. So I have the, my right is to say, no, I'm not down with this. And I'm not going to the fuck, I'm not going to be in your picture at the fucking White House. So you can use it and all the people who listen to me would be like, oh, fuck, he was back there.

• 1:45:27Joe Rogan?

  So they wanted you to go for, was it Veterans Day? And what was the, the premise of having you there?

• 1:45:31Speaker 02

  I don't know, but.

• 1:45:33Joe Rogan?

  But you're not a veteran. So what was the premise?

• 1:45:35Speaker 02

  It's only because I have a big platform.

• 1:45:39Joe Rogan?

  So they're, you're gonna celebrate Veterans Day at the White House and they just said, let's get some famous people?

• 1:45:44Speaker 02

  Probably. I mean, it's, it's, you know, remember the Epstein files where all the influencers had the binder?

• 1:45:50Joe Rogan?

  Well, it was Pam Bondi.

• 1:45:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, but-

• 1:45:52Joe Rogan?

  And there was, uh-

• 1:45:53Speaker 02

  But there's-

• 1:45:54Joe Rogan?

  There was a few other influencers.

• 1:45:56Speaker 02

  But they use, they, they u- they can use people like us for their messaging.

• 1:46:00Joe Rogan?

  Uh huh.

• 1:46:01Speaker 02

  And then they invited me back again after, now I've been pretty critical of this administration just because I care and it's just like, I don't have to agree with fucking lockstep with the person I voted for. That's our right as citizens to be like, I voted for that, but I don't agree with this and I'm not happy about this and I'm, and I want you to know, that's, that's our right as voters.

• 1:46:20Joe Rogan?

  And what'd they invite you back again for?

• 1:46:22Speaker 02

  This was back, it was for pub- a public land thing. And I'm like, yeah, I'm down for it, but I just know, I had this, this kid on, Benji Backer. He's like, uh, has this, this page, this nonpartisan something for outdoors, but I did this show with him and I, there was, uh, you know, bringing different people into debate, public land, or like to share why we care about public land, coming from different places, but it's still all important to us. I did the show with him. Well, he went, I had him on the podcast. He talked about his, how he's working hard to protect public land. He went back and Trump signed an executive order, something about public land.

• 1:47:01Speaker 02

  And all it was, was a pomp and circumstance photo op to get executive order. Nothing has happened to it. Nothing's happened with it. No action's been taken. It was like, all it was, was, uh, just, they can make a press clipping out of it.

• 1:47:17Joe Rogan?

  Theater.

• 1:47:17Speaker 02

  A theater and nothing's gonna change. Nothing changes, nothing's protected. So that's what I feel like a lot of these times, if I get invited there, it's for that, is to, is to make my base, if I have a base, I don't have, I'm not a politician, but to make my people like feel a little better about whatever's going on. And I understand that's how it works. You want powerful people on your side, right? I'm not saying I'm powerful, but I have a, a pretty big following. I just, I just, I went back there because it was a huge honor, like the few times that I've been back there and it's amazing. And it's like being in the White House, somebody like me should never be there, but I've created value in my name in so, in some ways that I get that opportunity. But that opportunity comes with a price. So now I have to think about-

• 1:48:01Speaker 02

  Am I true to what I believe in by showing support for this? And now it's too, there's too much for me that I'm not happy with that I can't ignore it.

• 1:48:10Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:48:11Speaker 02

  Personally. So that's, I feel like they use, they use opportunities like that for, you know, for press.

• 1:48:18Joe Rogan?

  Well, the, the, it seems like there's so many different people that want a piece of the pie. And if there's these giant contracts for border walls and giant contracts for this, it's just such an incentive to do things that people don't want.

• 1:48:32Speaker 02

  Or what about the military drones? Those contracts, when this war started, that's, you can look into who, who made money on that one.

• 1:48:42Joe Rogan?

  Who made money on that one?

• 1:48:45Speaker 02

  Should we look it up, Jamie? Drone military contract, contract? Let's see who made money. I don't want to say.

• 1:48:51Joe Rogan?

  But you know, huh?

• 1:48:52Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:48:53Joe Rogan?

  Okay. Well, I don't know, so I'm, I'm gonna be surprised.

• 1:48:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, so, um.

• 1:48:56Joe Rogan?

  Maybe, maybe not.

• 1:48:57Speaker 02

  But like, when you follow the money, it makes a lot of sense.

• 1:49:01Joe Rogan?

  Of course.

• 1:49:01Speaker 02

  When you follow.

• 1:49:02Joe Rogan?

  It always does.

• 1:49:02Speaker 02

  When you follow AIPAC, you're like, why is this politician always pushing this shit? Where do they get their money? Oh, I know this guy back home, he's running for like this local politician thing, his name's Adam. He's like, he goes, I-

• 1:49:15Joe Rogan?

  Don Jr., what?

• 1:49:17Speaker 02

  What, Jamie, what did you find?

• 1:49:18Joe Rogan?

  Wait a minute.

• 1:49:20Speaker 02

  What did you?

• 1:49:21Joe Rogan?

  Are you-

• 1:49:21Speaker 02

  I'm just Googling things over here.

• 1:49:22Joe Rogan?

  This has gotta be a mistake.

• 1:49:24Speaker 02

  Googling things.

• 1:49:24Joe Rogan?

  Eric and Don Jr. invest in military drone company amid Iran war.

• 1:49:30Speaker 02

  Is it, Jamie, where'd you find this?

• 1:49:31Joe Rogan?

  That seems like propaganda from Iran or something.

• 1:49:37Speaker 02

  Is that a cartoon, Iran's cartoon, uh, propaganda again?

• 1:49:44Speaker 02

  No, but, so, anyway, you start, I was talking about this local guy back home. And he said that, he goes, I need to call Israel. He goes, it is so hard to get money for like, to run as a, in whatever, it's just a local election. But you go to a business, they say, yeah, here, I got $18 I can contribute, right? Where, so you see these big politicians, you see how much money they're getting, it's like, wait, what's this AIPAC thing? Wh- wh- why do they get millions? Oh, then you start wondering how they're voting on things. You're like, this is making a lot more sense.

• 1:50:17Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:50:17Speaker 02

  It's like, where's the money coming from?

• 1:50:19Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, they're gonna, they have to take all that out of politics.

• 1:50:22Speaker 02

  Oh, my.

• 1:50:23Joe Rogan?

  I don't know how you could at this point, but when you can influence politicians and influence who gets promoted to be voted for, who gets put out into the public eye in a, in a, in a great light, in a positive light, and then you realize that there's just all this money from corporations to get this person in, or from other foreign countries to get this person in, or from lobbyists to get this person in. And you're like, wait, would that, why? That's not serving us.

• 1:50:51Speaker 02

  No, it's like, what?

• 1:50:52Joe Rogan?

  And how do you stop that? When did, okay, here's a big question. When did money officially become a problem in politics? I know that's a very broad question, but put that in perplexity and see what it says.

• 1:51:08Speaker 03

  The Citizens United thing was a big deal, but I think it was 2012.

• 1:51:11Joe Rogan?

  What thing is that?

• 1:51:11Speaker 03

  Citizens United?

• 1:51:13Joe Rogan?

  Citizens United.

• 1:51:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:51:14Joe Rogan?

  That was 2012.

• 1:51:15Speaker 03

  I think so.

• 1:51:15Joe Rogan?

  That changed it a lot, but it was always a problem before that. And there was always been, uh, like, when did corporations become a real problem? Like, when did AIPAC become a problem? Like, when did, when did AIPAC form? And when did they start donating to American politicians?

• 1:51:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's, uh...

• 1:51:39Joe Rogan?

  First of all, I don't think any foreign government, anyone connected to a foreign government should have any influence whatsoever on American politics.

• 1:51:46Speaker 02

  I've, I've heard our politicians say their loyalty is to Israel.

• 1:51:50Joe Rogan?

  That is crazy. I've heard, I've heard people say that too.

• 1:51:52Speaker 03

  2022.

• 1:51:53Joe Rogan?

  2022. They not direct, directly start donating to US political candidates until 2022. Fucking Jesus.

• 1:52:02Speaker 02

  So, I, if I, if I don't, I mean, if I remember correctly, Trump didn't take any money from Israel his first election. And now he just gave an award to somebody. You can see who he just gave an award to.

• 1:52:17Joe Rogan?

  He gave an award? What kind? One of them big ones? One of them nice ones? They put them around your neck and you stand there in the Oval Office?

• 1:52:23Speaker 02

  Yep, who contributed two-

• 1:52:24Joe Rogan?

  Looking like he just won the Olympics?

• 1:52:25Speaker 02

  Who contributed 250 million to his last election.

• 1:52:28Joe Rogan?

  Oh.

• 1:52:29Speaker 02

  So, do you want an award?

• 1:52:31Joe Rogan?

  That's how much you gotta pay for an award? I'm good. I don't, I don't really want an award. I wouldn't know what to do with it anyway.

• 1:52:37Speaker 02

  So, to me, that, so you said like if-

• 1:52:41Joe Rogan?

  2022. I would imagine APEC would is around much longer than that.

• 1:52:45Speaker 02

  I didn't know that, actually. But when I look at like, if you look at, um, Thomas Massey. He got on the crosshairs of the president for whatever reason, right? He got, they had a candidate they wanted him to lose to. And he did, he did lose.

• 1:53:04Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, so here's the thing, we'll, we'll get to that in a second. Here's the thing, Citizens United decision is widely seen as having created serious problems in US politics by vastly increasing the role of big money and reducing transparency. And so this was what year, Jamie?

• 1:53:20Speaker 03

  I want to say it was 2012.

• 1:53:23Speaker 02

  Oh, okay.

• 1:53:23Speaker 03

  2011, 2010, 2010-

• 1:53:25Joe Rogan?

  2010. So, 2010 Supreme Court decision further tilted- Yeah, tilted political influence towards wealthy donors and corporations. That's when we got fucked.

• 1:53:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:53:35Speaker 03

  I think that's when it started treating corporations like a person and gave them rights in some way.

• 1:53:39Joe Rogan?

  That was Obama.

• 1:53:40Speaker 02

  See that second bullet point? Supercharged PACs, which can take unlimited contributions from wealthy donors to spend unlimited amounts in- So, that's how they control the elections, right there.

• 1:53:50Joe Rogan?

  And that was the Obama administration.

• 1:53:53Speaker 02

  Dark money.

• 1:53:54Joe Rogan?

  Dark money from groups that don't fully disclose donors have exploded. Voters often cannot see who's really funding major political campaigns. So, we need to just fucking tune the Wayback Machine to 2009. But even then, like 2009 is after they bailed out the fucking banks.

• 1:54:10Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:54:11Joe Rogan?

  Fifteen years later, Citizens United defined the 2024 election. Yeah, there it is. We're fucked. It's a slippery slope.

• 1:54:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's so.

• 1:54:21Joe Rogan?

  I don't, that's like.

• 1:54:22Speaker 02

  Ruth Ginsburg right there called it the worst ruling of her time on the court.

• 1:54:25Joe Rogan?

  Whoa. Overwhelming majorities of Americans have consistently expressed disapproval of the ruling, with at least 22 states and hundreds of cities voting to support a constitutional amendment to overturn it. Citizens United reshaped political campaigns in profound ways, giving corporations and billionaire-funded super PACs a central role in US elections and making untraceable dark money a major force in politics. And yet, it may only be now, in the aftermath of the 2024 election, we could begin to understand the full impact of the decision.

• 1:54:56Speaker 02

  And it's perfect, too, because Citizens United, so this is like the language they use to dupe us. Like, oh, Citizens United.

• 1:55:04Joe Rogan?

  Right, we're together.

• 1:55:04Speaker 02

  This is good, right?

• 1:55:06Joe Rogan?

  Just like the Patriot Act.

• 1:55:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, or like in Oregon, that the hunting thing, it's called the Peace Act.

• 1:55:12Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah. Tell, talk about that, because that one's bonkers.

• 1:55:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, so this is not, so this is same thing. It's just, it's follow the money. If you want to know why we're so fucked up, follow the money.

• 1:55:25Speaker 02

  So the IP28, this is a crazy thing. They want to, here's, here's where, I'll just explain Oregon real quick. Oregon is like a Petri dish for these crazy ideas, for these political ideas. Like, if you think of legalizing recreational drug use, you know, we did that in Oregon. Like heroin, meth, you can have that. It's fine. It's whatever.

• 1:55:48Joe Rogan?

  I think they turned that back, right?

• 1:55:50Speaker 02

  But they tried it to see how it would work in Oregon.

• 1:55:53Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it didn't work out so well.

• 1:55:54Speaker 02

  Right. Now, this is another crazy one, but they try it in Oregon because it's very, we've got a huge liberal population in Portland and Eugene and some of these, and Salem, but uh.

• 1:56:05Joe Rogan?

  Not just liberals. Retards.

• 1:56:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, they're, they're more than just, because I'm, I'm friends with liberals for sure.

• 1:56:11Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, they're gone. They're, they're at the far end of the political spectrum on the left.

• 1:56:16Speaker 02

  For sure.

• 1:56:16Joe Rogan?

  They're full-on communists.

• 1:56:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:56:18Joe Rogan?

  Socialists, no meat, everyone should be a vegan. They want everybody to get bitten by that tick.

• 1:56:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, so much.

• 1:56:26Joe Rogan?

  We should talk about that, too. We'll get to that in a minute. But, um, so the law, the, the new thing, the bill they're trying to pass would ban, ban, first of all, uh, was it, was it the May, who, was it the governor of Washington? Which, which governor? Was it Oregon or Washington that tried to make it so that you have to have a fucking license to paddleboard?

• 1:56:48Speaker 02

  Oh, probably Washington.

• 1:56:51Speaker 02

  I would say.

• 1:56:51Joe Rogan?

  Can you fucking imagine telling someone that they have to have a license to paddle a fucking canoe?

• 1:56:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, well.

• 1:56:58Joe Rogan?

  You have to pay the state money to have a license to paddle a fucking canoe.

• 1:57:03Speaker 02

  They also made it like during COVID, like some guy was out fishing by himself in the lake. I think he got a ticket.

• 1:57:09Joe Rogan?

  A guy got arrested when he was surfing by himself in California.

• 1:57:13Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:57:14Joe Rogan?

  Who are you gonna get sick out there in the middle of the ocean surfing?

• 1:57:17Speaker 02

  It, it's just silly, but this IP 28, they bill it as, you know, on the, so they'll, they'll do the saying like go to get these votes. They needed 117,000 votes to get this on the ballot. So to, to get 117,000 people to sign your petition, um, basically all it said was stop animal cruelty.

• 1:57:38Joe Rogan?

  All you have to do is go to Portland and visit one homeless shelter.

• 1:57:41Speaker 02

  To say, hey, do you want to stop animal cruelty?

• 1:57:43Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:57:43Speaker 02

  Okay, yeah, I love animals. Well, I love animals too. Oh, he signed this. So they didn't tell you that it's making, you know, you can't fish, you can't hunt, you can't raise animals like.

• 1:57:55Joe Rogan?

  Backyard chickens. You can't raise backyard chickens for food.

• 1:57:59Speaker 02

  Just like even ranchers who sell beef, you can't do it. They're making it like even the breeding of animals, like we breed cows, we breed horses. Um, there's stud fees, there's different things. It makes better race, like, like, uh, racehorses. But there's also better product for, for beef, right? So we control like. When a, when a cow goes in heat, when he gets bred, things like that, that's part of like being a rancher. Well, they want to make that like, cause a cow didn't agree to it. It's like rape. It's like sexual assault. Like you can't control when animals breed. So that takes away ranching. There is no ranching, right? So they want to make it to where they're not going to make eating meat illegal.

• 1:58:43Speaker 02

  But if people can't raise it, you're buying it from some other state at a higher price.

• 1:58:47Joe Rogan?

  You're eliminating ranches in Oregon.

• 1:58:49Speaker 02

  In Oregon, yeah. So it's, it's killing the whole industry.

• 1:58:52Joe Rogan?

  Crazy.

• 1:58:52Speaker 02

  And they could say that, like, even if you, if you hurt an animal, um, I don't know what, like, you, you could get charged with assault. So this is, they want every animal treated like your family pet or dog.

• 1:59:08Joe Rogan?

  Oh.

• 1:59:09Speaker 02

  And the, but the thing is-

• 1:59:11Joe Rogan?

  So if you kill a chicken for food, you go to jail?

• 1:59:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. I was wondering, like, if you, you know how you're driving a car and like, sometimes a bird flies in front of you?

• 1:59:18Joe Rogan?

  Right. You're gonna get arrested for that?

• 1:59:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, for that. But-

• 1:59:21Joe Rogan?

  You're responsible for your vehicle. You killed that squirrel.

• 1:59:24Speaker 02

  So this guy who introduced this, this is the third attempt at doing this. He knows he's not going to get the vote. Cause how it worked to get on the ballot, they take 6% of the votes cast in the last governor, governor election. So 6% of the last votes casted, so it's a small number, but it's 117,000.

• 1:59:47Speaker 02

  They can get that many by just saying, stop animal cruelty. Now it goes to the ballot. But he knows this is his third time. He knows this isn't going to pass. But it's like, it just tells them what they need to work on, what language they need to change. It's all part of this long-term process to get hunting and fishing stopped, right? Because I think, like, in general, the government, they like consumers. They don't like people being too, uh, um, self-sufficient. They like them relying on that. This is another step, like, if we can get rid of ranchers, hunting and fishing, don't need the guns, don't need to be killing stuff. Then you're just like, we'll provide the meat for you. Bill Gates owns all this land. You talked about Bill Gates before. Him making decisions on shit he doesn't really think about. He dropped out of college.

• 2:00:31Speaker 02

  But, did you say he dropped out of college? Or, yeah. So it's a, it's, they want to be able to control who's, who's providing the food, who's making the money, what type of food it is.

• 2:00:44Speaker 02

  You know, it's like, it goes back to the whole W E C thing. It's like you will own nothing and be happy. It's like that's they want these smart cities working towards that to where, no, you don't need to be a badass hunter anymore. We, we got it.

• 2:00:56Joe Rogan?

  Right, and they, they can use these nutty progressive people as just useful idiots to push things through.

• 2:01:00Speaker 02

  That's all it is.

• 2:01:01Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and then you'll get a bunch of people that are pushing money, PACs that are pushing money towards these people to fund them, to push these wacky ideas.

• 2:01:08Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:01:09Joe Rogan?

  You go, why would they do that? Well, that's why they do that. They do that because they want you dependent on them.

• 2:01:13Speaker 02

  Right, and this is part of this process where it doesn't happen overnight, and this thing won't, won't make it into law for sure. But they'll see where they're at. This will be like, okay, here's where we're at, here's what we need to change on our messaging. Here's where the biggest pushback was, and they adjust. Where, can we do that on the other side? It's like, I know there's, there's farming ranches or organizations, but like, it's, it's money. It's like, who's giving these people the money? It's usually coming from out of state. And, um, they have more money and they're more organized than people who are, are working, cause when you're a rancher, you're fucking working all the time. You don't, you can't go get signatures and shit.

• 2:01:55Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:01:55Speaker 02

  You got work to do.

• 2:01:56Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:01:56Speaker 02

  These fucking, these environmental people that are just crazy, like extremists, they get paid for doing this. So it's like, that's how, that's their job. You know, a rancher has a, he has a job and it's very hard. He doesn't have time to go out and, and talk, knock on doors.

• 2:02:14Joe Rogan?

  That's the really fucked up part is a lot of these people that are these protesters, these organizers, that is their job.

• 2:02:22Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:02:22Joe Rogan?

  And that's hard for people to really understand. And until you listen to people like Mike Benz, where he breaks down how NGOs work and how they fund things. And the, the fact that like, most of these things are a fucking scam. Most nonprofits are a fucking scam.

• 2:02:39Speaker 02

  Definitely.

• 2:02:39Joe Rogan?

  And it's hard for people to wrap their head around that because you think of nonprofit, look, oh, my son works for a nonprofit. Oh, he must be a good guy.

• 2:02:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:02:47Joe Rogan?

  He's like trying to help. And maybe he is a good guy. Maybe he starts out a good guy, but then you're, you're. Corrupted by the system that you realize like, oh, no, the nonprofit is essentially about supporting the nonprofit.

• 2:02:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:02:59Joe Rogan?

  And most of the money goes to the supporting of this organization. The overhead, the structure, all, all the infrastructure, all the people working there. They all get paid very well.

• 2:03:10Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:03:10Joe Rogan?

  And then a little piece goes to whatever the fuck it is.

• 2:03:14Speaker 02

  The people starting the nonprofit will be like, okay, first, I'm gonna need this much money.

• 2:03:19Joe Rogan?

  Exactly.

• 2:03:21Speaker 02

  Oh, you wanna be my VP? I can count on you. I'm, you're gonna make this much money. So, that's what happens. And then whatever's left is like, that's their, you know, that they can't write off. That's what they contribute.

• 2:03:33Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, um, what did I see this? Oh, this is another one that I saw about nonprofit hospitals. Do you know that nonprofit hospitals are the most profitable?

• 2:03:44Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah, for sure.

• 2:03:48Speaker 02

  They can just hide that money. They charge crazy amounts for-

• 2:03:50Joe Rogan?

  How crazy is that?

• 2:03:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:03:52Joe Rogan?

  Nonprofit are the most profitable.

• 2:03:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:03:56Joe Rogan?

  So this whole idea, it's, it's all just bullshit. It's, uh, most of what you think of as like philanthropy is really, like the Bill Gates stuff.

• 2:04:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:04:06Joe Rogan?

  There's a great book called, ah, fuck, what is the name of the book? I read this book, Controlagarks. And it's all about how a lot of these guys, they, they realize that they're having public image problems, like particularly Bill Gates, like during the, uh, antitrust lawsuits with Microsoft.

• 2:04:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:04:26Joe Rogan?

  Then he pivots to this Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation where it's all about philanthropy. But they're philanthro capitalists. All the different philanthropy ventures are extremely profitable. Like, he made five hundred million dollars allegedly off the COVID vaccine. Off of his investments in this vaccine that didn't even fucking work well.

• 2:04:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think Trump got paid, paid with that too. But it's like, uh, yeah, it's, it, you know, the money thing. I don't know, the citizens, the regular citizens are the ones that pay the price for this shit.

• 2:04:57Joe Rogan?

  It's, it's dark. And so here it is. Put your, put your headset, headset on real quick. Listen, this, this guy talk about- Congressman recently described some nonprofit hospitals as hedge funds with hospital beds.

• 2:05:12Speaker 06

  Mm-hmm. A person say that nonprofit hospitals were like hedge funds with hospital beds? And I was like, I bet they are. What's going on here? Because in the United States, more than half of our hospitals are nonprofits. But the hospital world doesn't feel very non-profit-y. And then I read this article by Scott Hodge in the Washington Post that talked about how they need to be taxed. And it turns out that the total revenues of nonprofit hospitals in America in 2023, so three years ago, was 1.3 trillion dollars. And it turns out that they're getting a bunch of taxpayer money. In fact, three years ago, so this is probably a lot more now, nonprofit hospitals were making 45 billion dollars worth of profit. And as I mentioned, we taxpayers give them a bunch of money. In fact, in 2021, we gave them 38 billion dollars.

• 2:05:57Speaker 06

  11 and a half billion dollars of it because they don't have to pay any taxes. And that was five years ago, so this is probably more like 60 billion now. And the reason that we hypothetically give them this money as taxpayers is because they're supposed to do charity. But there was a study that looked at almost 1,500 nonprofit hospitals and found that 86% of them provided little or no charity. And that's because almost everybody that goes to hospitals has insurance. It's either private health insurance or insurance from the government. Only 3% of people don't have health insurance, and it's not like the hospitals give them a deal. Turns out that the government was checking this out around 2009. The hospitals spun up a lobbying campaign and got any requirements that would basically define what kind of charity they would have to do squashed.

• 2:06:41Speaker 06

  So now it's kind of the honor system. So I was like, where are those billions of dollars going that the nonprofit hospitals make in profits? Turns out it goes to executives, like these CEOs who are getting paid about 4.5 million dollars a year. Meanwhile, their nurses make about 70K. 4.5 million a year here. Apparently, management consultants getting billions of dollars from nonprofit hospitals. And here's a guy, Robert, at a hospital in New York, who paid himself 15.3 million dollars a year. Nonprofit hospital.

• 2:07:07Speaker 02

  There are really good nonprofit hospitals that are primarily funded by donations and serve low income families and people in need like St. Jude. Or like the Shriners, but it looks like about eighty-six percent of these nonprofit hospitals. Get fifty or sixty billion dollars from US taxpayers like you and me. Because they're supposed to do some form of charity, but they paid off the government so they don't have to really do charity. And some of their CEOs are making fifteen point three million dollars a year. While we subsidize them with like fifty billion dollars. Do you think this is right? I saw this.

• 2:07:37Joe Rogan?

  Okay, so this is P. Davis Jones on Instagram. Motherfuckers. Yeah. So it's like, it's again, it's just like the UFO thing.

• 2:07:47Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 2:07:48Joe Rogan?

  It's, there's.

• 2:07:49Speaker 02

  Distractions.

• 2:07:49Joe Rogan?

  There's so much to pay attention to. There's so much fucking fraud. And there's so much cap. This is what Elon told me when he started looking into the Doge stuff. He's like, it's impossible to describe the amount of fraud.

• 2:08:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:08:02Joe Rogan?

  He's like, it's insane. That's what Nick Shirley found in Minnesota when he went to investigate the daycares. And also found in California with hospice care centers. There's entire motels where every room was supposed to be an office for some fucking nonprofit and they're all just siphoning money. So it's madness.

• 2:08:21Speaker 02

  So that's like, that's what it makes.

• 2:08:22Joe Rogan?

  Money.

• 2:08:22Speaker 02

  Regular people like me, like, what's the answer? It's like, what's the point to all this?

• 2:08:29Joe Rogan?

  Aliens.

• 2:08:29Speaker 02

  Meanwhile, I'm, I'm paying out my ass in taxes for shit like this.

• 2:08:34Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:08:35Speaker 02

  And, or for war.

• 2:08:37Joe Rogan?

  It's like, yeah, all of it's gross.

• 2:08:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:08:39Joe Rogan?

  Every single, yeah. I mean, uh, what we're gonna have to have is some side of, sort of like radical transparency. Where all this stuff gets exposed and gets exposed like probably with some AI program. And no one's gonna want to turn that on.

• 2:08:56Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:08:56Joe Rogan?

  They're, they're never gonna want everyone to know exactly how much fraud and how much fucking terrible management they've done with our money.

• 2:09:03Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 2:09:04Joe Rogan?

  Like the Pentagon's never passed an audit once.

• 2:09:06Speaker 02

  No.

• 2:09:06Joe Rogan?

  Not one.

• 2:09:06Speaker 02

  No.

• 2:09:07Joe Rogan?

  Zero.

• 2:09:07Speaker 02

  And you look at.

• 2:09:08Joe Rogan?

  You don't pass an audit, you're going to jail.

• 2:09:09Speaker 02

  For sure.

• 2:09:10Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:09:10Speaker 02

  You look at, yeah, how much we're in debt, all the shenanigans they do with the public money. It's just like.

• 2:09:16Joe Rogan?

  That's over exaggerated. We're only in debt thirty-nine trillion dollars. That's not a big deal.

• 2:09:20Speaker 02

  Isn't that crazy?

• 2:09:21Joe Rogan?

  The thing is, they could just print thirty-nine trillion and it's done.

• 2:09:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, just pay, pay it off.

• 2:09:25Joe Rogan?

  The reason why they don't is because they have really good control.

• 2:09:28Speaker 02

  God.

• 2:09:29Joe Rogan?

  You're doing a great job.

• 2:09:30Speaker 02

  It's a one thing on this hunting thing, I do have to give credit to Dan Gates and Howell. It's like they've done a good job in Colorado, like fighting this. This is like been, um, we've won a few things there. Um.

• 2:09:42Joe Rogan?

  Have they tried the same thing with Oregon and Colorado, the same kind of thing?

• 2:09:45Speaker 02

  Well, no, what Dan is doing, he's, um, he's got out their initiative 302 and it's going to make hunting and fishing in Colorado constitutional right.

• 2:09:57Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 2:09:58Speaker 02

  Okay, so hopefully that, you know how these, just like this, this lobbyist and this IP 28, they're seeing what works and what they can get away with and kind of planning for the future. Well, if Dan is successful with this initiative 302 passing, that will be like how we can address this in the future to protect hunting and fishing. Cause if we can go through there, this is like the litmus test for it, then okay, maybe we can do this in other states also. So this is a big one coming up. They're working on right now, but I mean, we have to, we just have to get more savvy politically to, when they're doing shit like this, we have to be more in tune, you know, and educated on it.

• 2:10:33Joe Rogan?

  God, it's such a bummer though, because like the people that I know, like Mike Benz that do this all day, I do not envy them. I mean, Mike Benz makes these live streams where he's just exposing and they, they last for hours. Like who's going to go through them all?

• 2:10:47Speaker 02

  Well, my notes here.

• 2:10:48Joe Rogan?

  Exposing all these different companies.

• 2:10:50Speaker 02

  Be nice, be positive.

• 2:10:51Joe Rogan?

  We didn't do any of that.

• 2:10:53Speaker 02

  How do, how do you, how do you talk about this?

• 2:10:56Joe Rogan?

  It's hard.

• 2:10:57Speaker 02

  In a nice and positive way.

• 2:10:59Joe Rogan?

  It's very, very, very difficult. Very, especially because these are real problems.

• 2:11:04Speaker 02

  I, last on my li, well, I don't know what's up on the list, but, uh, um, oh, I do want to talk about this spoke one. I want to shout out Ryan Callahan from Backcountry Hunters and Anglers. You know, Cal.

• 2:11:18Joe Rogan?

  Sure, sure.

• 2:11:19Speaker 02

  Great guy.

• 2:11:20Joe Rogan?

  Great guy.

• 2:11:21Speaker 02

  Bust his ass for this shit. Martin Heinrich, which is, he's a senator there in New Mexico. He's, I think he's a Democrat. I don't give a shit about Democrat, Republican, whoever. He just fights Republicans and he's a badass. And then also Ron Wyden there in Oregon, who normally I'd probably never agree with anything on because, you know, it's just different, but he is, he does get, I want, I want to give those guys credit for trying their best to protect and fight against this public land sell off and Mike Lee and this energy resource committee, which is, you know, they're beholden to a different set of values. Usually it's money related and these guys are kind of fighting for, for the guys like us who just enjoy being out in the mountains.

• 2:12:04Joe Rogan?

  So there you being positive.

• 2:12:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, I just wanted to tell those guys are doing great, but I was gonna bring this up. This is like the whole scandal I've been involved with recently, which is, feels like a lot for me, which I don't like, but I, my point on it is, I feel like.

• 2:12:24Speaker 06

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• 2:12:55Joe Rogan?

  Well, let's explain the scandal before you get into that. So you won the Oregon Marathon in your age category.

• 2:13:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:13:04Joe Rogan?

  And then someone started complaining because you had taken BPC 157.

• 2:13:10Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 2:13:10Joe Rogan?

  Which is a banned substance.

• 2:13:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:13:13Joe Rogan?

  So you would take, for people that don't know, as ridiculous as this sounds, Cam broke his foot like two years ago. You broke your foot like two years ago and you never got it fixed. So all these miles you've been running, you've been running with a broken foot. And you went to ways to well, they treated your foot with stem cells and they injected BPC 157 into your foot to help, help your foot heal. Is it healed now? Is the bone like fused up?

• 2:13:41Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 2:13:42Joe Rogan?

  What did it do? It just grew back?

• 2:13:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, finally. It was like, it took a while because I didn't stop running and.

• 2:13:48Joe Rogan?

  So what does it look like now on an x-ray?

• 2:13:50Speaker 02

  It's like, kind of, the bone is, it was a big break, like, a pretty wide break, which is why the surgeon didn't know if it was gonna be able, the bone was gonna be able to make it across there, because I kept, like, moving it.

• 2:14:01Joe Rogan?

  Moving it, yeah.

• 2:14:02Speaker 02

  And, um, and he told me, he's like, you know, with this, this is, I just had the same surgery done on my thumb, where the ligament pulls a piece of the bone off and breaks it, right? So that your ligaments and tendons are very strong. The bone fractures, so what happened here is, I fell and I was doing a race, and, and basically shredded my ligament, broke this bone. So they had to hope that the bone was big enough to go attach it back to where it broke from, because bone-on-bone healing is much better than ligament-to-bone. It's, like, quicker, right? So we need a piece of that bone. Well, in my foot, they said, he didn't know how big that piece that broke off was, so

• 2:14:44Speaker 02

  there's a chance that it wouldn't reattach through surgery, so, which means he'd have to take the ligament back to it, it's called a Jones fracture, it's on the outside of my foot, and, um, hope it, it connected, but that would be, like, stretching that ligament beyond where it's supposed, by design.

• 2:15:01Joe Rogan?

  So it'd probably change the function of your foot.

• 2:15:03Speaker 02

  It would change the dynamic of my foot and how my foot, and I run, I have a good stride, I run well, and I'm, and he said, there's no guarantee that this will attach like it should, or that, you know, you'd need another surgery if this doesn't work, and then another one to get the hardware out. So I'm just like, I really don't want to do two or three surgeries, let's see if we can try other treatments, less invasive, if I can just deal with this pain for long enough, would my foot heal? And it has. Um, so I was, like, very interested in not getting this surgery, based on, you know, he's a renowned surgeon, he does all the surgeries on the Oregon football team, he's a stud, trust, totally trust him, but I heard what he was saying about, like, hey,

• 2:15:46Speaker 02

  there's no guarantee this is gonna work perfect, and I took that to heart.

• 2:15:49Joe Rogan?

  When did you have the injury? How long ago?

• 2:15:51Speaker 02

  It was June 16th of 2024.

• 2:15:54Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 2:15:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:15:55Joe Rogan?

  Quite a long time ago.

• 2:15:56Speaker 02

  Right, so.

• 2:15:57Joe Rogan?

  Basically, a solid two years.

• 2:15:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, so I went in and I dealt with it for, I mean, it hurt for a long time. I just didn't want to stop living, you know, and I'm like, okay, if it's just pain, I have a very high pain tolerance. I don't care. I'm gonna block that out and just do what I do. So I did. I did, I did everything. I did all my hunts. I did races and it was terrible. And, but I made it. I made it through and my foot's healed. But, so, broke it in June, went into Waze 12, I think in July, went back in November, which is when I got that stem cell back in it. And, uh, when they put in the BPC there, that, that one time in November. And, um, so that was like, that was a thing. And all I said,

• 2:16:40Speaker 02

  you know, I had a very fast Eugene marathon time for me. Um, I'm healthier than now that I've ever been. I've retired. I've done more specific training. All these people, you know, I've been labeled as like a doper, right? Like, almost like Lance Armstrong.

• 2:16:55Joe Rogan?

  Well, you've been labeled by one very specific person that is a professional runner, who's also a vegan, and has been very vocal about you in an anti-hunting way. So he's got that. And, and you're also, your time, your running time, he's, is he 18 years younger than you?

• 2:17:14Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 2:17:14Joe Rogan?

  And your running time is very similar to his?

• 2:17:17Speaker 02

  His last marathon, yeah.

• 2:17:18Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. And your running time of this year's marathon, which you won in your age class, is quicker than last year's by quite a bit.

• 2:17:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:17:28Joe Rogan?

  What people don't understand is last year, your fucking foot was broken.

• 2:17:33Speaker 02

  I didn't run last year because I was hurt. So it was quicker than like the year before.

• 2:17:39Joe Rogan?

  Right. Was your foot broken then?

• 2:17:41Speaker 02

  No.

• 2:17:41Joe Rogan?

  No. Okay. So your time is quicker now than it's ever been before after recovering from your broken foot?

• 2:17:49Speaker 02

  Yeah. And.

• 2:17:50Joe Rogan?

  That's amazing.

• 2:17:51Speaker 02

  It's.

• 2:17:51Joe Rogan?

  But how much quicker? 10 minutes?

• 2:17:53Speaker 02

  It was, my best time was in, my very best time was in 2006. Uh, me and Lance Armstrong, we did the New York Marathon. I didn't even see him during this one, but I ran 250, like 21 in New York. I ran 250 quite a few times, like Boston. When, when I ran with Lance in 2008, I did run 250 again, and that's when we finished together.

• 2:18:14Speaker 02

  And you know, Truett and I were talking about this too, just the other day, because Truett, my son, he's going for the Olympic trials qualifier in the marathon, which means he needs to run quicker than a 216. So we were talking about this and it's just my training and even his training, because I'm not a coach and I don't know, I just run to get in shape for bow hunting. Okay, I don't, I'm not a pro. But, and I had him run and he's very talented, but I didn't know how to coach him either. So he hired a real coach. And when you start getting into this marathon training and specifics of it and why you do certain, certain exercises and why there's certain stimulus from, I mean, I just had

• 2:18:56Speaker 02

  the winner of the Eugene marathon on my podcast and we did a really fast run. We ran a 506 mile, which I had never done, a mile seven of an eight mile run. And then he said, okay, my, his name's Jack Sedell, he's like an amazing athlete, has 1,400 followers, which is kind of crazy that this amazing, talented people have a small amount of following, but their talent is incredible. So he won it. I ran with him just the other day and he said, oh, I need to do eight 100 beater strides, which is simply essentially sprinting. After we ran super hard eight miles, climbed 3,000, 3,000 or 2,000 foot mountain and did this

• 2:19:38Speaker 02

  fast pace, but he still had to get the stimulus needed for what he's asking his body to do, which is qualify for the Olympics, right? So the stimulus is what I've never done before. I've never got on the track and did it. All I ever did was just go run. I just run. That's what I do. It's like, how do I move this needle in the right direction in a positive way? I gotta put in work. How I'd put in work was I'd go run mile after mile after mile. Some days, 20 miles a day, because I felt like that was a noble sacrifice for me and for achieving what goals I wanted, which was bow hunting related, not, not racing related. Well, with Truitt taking on this Olympic trials qualifier journey, he's been doing the stimulus, hired a coach and like, hey dad, you need to do this type of stuff.

• 2:20:23Speaker 02

  You know, you get on the track, you wouldn't think you need to get on track to run 26 miles quick, but you do because you need the stimulus for your body. I had never done any of that. I had never got enough sleep. I would sleep. You know, if I was going to do a marathon a day and still be at work 10 hours a day, I'd have to get up at, start at 2:45 a.m. and I did. And sometimes I wouldn't go to bed until midnight. I didn't care about sleep. You'd have Dr. Matthew Walker on here. I'd say, fuck that dork. I'm not listening to sleep. It's like, I don't need sleep. I can still perform. Look at, I just ran 26 miles yesterday on two hours of sleep. But I wasn't performing at my best because I had to overcome my body fatigue. So for decades, I would work, didn't miss a day of work in 26 years, never called in sick

• 2:21:08Speaker 02

  once, always get my miles in, always get my work done. I was leading the crews. People relied on me to be a good leader. I had to be there. I had still put in this work. I would not get any sleep. My body was so depleted. I still did everything I needed to do at the highest level I could. Turns out the highest level I could, given the circumstances, was a 250 marathon. All right. So I required, or I mean, I retired three years ago. Now I'm getting sleep. Now I'm doing sauna, cold plunge. I get, you know, I spend, let's see, spend 2,000 bucks a month on massage and body work. And now with more specific training, like last year I ran with Truitt.

• 2:21:53Speaker 02

  He ran 238 in Boston, 234 in Eugene. We went on a run right before that. He said, Dad, I can't keep up with you. You should be going for the sub 230. He was trying to break 230. He goes, you should be going for the sub 230. You're faster than me. So this was last year, but then I got hurt. So last year I was going to break this same record. This year I've been healthy. I knew I was gonna get my fastest time ever. I put up a post and I said, "P R or E R? I'm either getting a personal record or I'm going to the emergency room. I'm sending it." So I said, "P R E R?" And I got a P R. I got 239 11, one of the fastest ever for a 58-year-old.

• 2:22:35Speaker 02

  And it's like, that caused people to pay attention, which I get. It's a very fast marathon for somebody almost 60 years old. But you have to look at the full picture and say, like, this wasn't some just guy who just started running. Been running, I've been running since I was five years old. I'm 58. I was running, pushing myself at five, running further than any other kid in school, winning in awards. That was 53 years ago, okay? I've been doing this a while. I haven't been training specifically because I didn't care. And so this guy said, "Oh, have," you know, he's like mad that I was so fast. He's talked shit about Truitt. I don't, and I'm trying to be nice and be positive, so I'm not gonna say his name.

• 2:23:20Speaker 02

  I'm not gonna, I understand people who want to protect clean sport. I applaud USADA. I applaud WADA. I applaud clean sports. I love it. It's required for Olympic athletes to get their just do. For me, he said, you know, he's talked shit about Truitt, which he's already on my radar because I remember Truitt said, "Hey, there's this elite guy who's saying that I'm dishonoring the marathon because I have no chance of getting the standard." And, you know, I said, "Who?"

• 2:23:49Joe Rogan?

  Why is that dishonoring the marathon?

• 2:23:51Speaker 02

  Because he was saying, like, Truitt was so far away from his time that it was unrealistic to even put that as a goal. My point was, he's a runner just like you. He has a big dream just like you had. Why shit on his dream? Somebody says that this dream, they want to do it, you're a runner, coach.

• 2:24:10Joe Rogan?

  How would it be dishonorable to have a lofty ambition? That doesn't even make sense.

• 2:24:15Speaker 02

  That was just words. The words are associated because he's my son. So, that's all that mattered to.

• 2:24:23Speaker 02

  But I, he was on my radar for that. Cause Truett told me and I said, who? And I hadn't, didn't even really know who it was. Looked him up. I'm just like, yeah, fuck, whatever. So anyway, I knew the name. Well, he comes on my page after this and he says something like, he dug up this old post from like 2011, which is still up there. And it talked about the shit I was taking from, it was like Complete Nutrition, which is like GNC. And it was, you know, if you go to GNC, it's like, you know, Mass Gainer 2000. So like, everything seems like it's a steroid. It's over the counter. It's not fucking steroids. You can't buy steroids over the counter. Everything that on that thing that I was doing, I was sponsored by Complete Nutrition, all over the counter supplements. It's like, there's no fucking EPO on here.

• 2:25:08Speaker 02

  It's like what these people try to make it sound like. It was just shit that I was lifting weights.

• 2:25:13Joe Rogan?

  This is from 15 years ago?

• 2:25:14Speaker 02

  2011. It's a, it's a blog post. He still has it.

• 2:25:17Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:25:18Speaker 02

  It's like, like I said, priding around like a trophy. It's like fucking's over the counter, whatever. So he said, I said, are you still talking about that? This is like late at night. I was kinda irritated, didn't, the guy irritates me anyway. So he said, could you pass a, you saw the drug test? And I said, I have no idea. It has nothing to do with me. I don't give a fuck. Probably not though, because I, I didn't, actually I didn't even know, but I know it's very restrictive. And I've had a lot of Olympians and things on my show. We don't talk about the drug test stuff. We're just like, we just go running.

• 2:25:54Joe Rogan?

  Well, what, what stuff would you take? Had you taken that wouldn't allow you to pass a drug test? Like the stuff you're taking now, like what supplements can you not take? Cause there's a lot of stuff that people just take normally that you can't take. Peptides are one of them, right?

• 2:26:09Speaker 02

  Certain peptides.

• 2:26:10Joe Rogan?

  Certain peptides.

• 2:26:11Speaker 02

  I think you can take certain ones, but. I don't even know, cause I had never looked at the list. I tried to with this when this came up.

• 2:26:20Joe Rogan?

  Well, this is the other thing is, a lot of people fail just by taking supplements. Because there's third-party, there's contamination of supplements. That's what happened to Sugar Sean O'Malley, Ostrine. It's happened to, you know, a lot of athletes.

• 2:26:35Speaker 02

  With this, most of the stuff that you would buy, like a GNC, probably an Olympian couldn't take. Or they'd have to check it out. Right. Cause it's like, how clean is a lab? How, you know, susceptible is to contamination? So, a lot of them, like, they're thinking about this shit every day. Like, it's their whole life. If they get, if they pop hot, their career's over.

• 2:26:58Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:26:58Speaker 02

  So, it's, it's a huge deal.

• 2:27:00Joe Rogan?

  I had Jordan Burrows in here and he wouldn't even try a Killcliff CBD drink. He was like, "I don't think I can take this."

• 2:27:06Speaker 02

  Well, I had Cheeto on my show and I said, "Hey, you wanna try a ketone?" He's like, "I don't, I don't know." So, he called Jeff Nowinski. And he said, "Could I take this ketone IQ?" And Jeff said, "Well, depends on what batch is approved." So, the batch of the ketone IQ that was made has to be approved. The other batch might not be approved. So, you could fail from that other batch. I didn't know any of that shit, but he called him right before we did it, so he didn't take it. It's just like, so there's things like that where it's just, it's non-stop, "I don't know if I can take this, this, that." I've never been in that position, cause I'm, I just run to bow hunt. I've never looked at these lists. I've never done anything.

• 2:27:49Speaker 02

  But a lot of stuff that, you know, Sudafed is on there, ADHD medicine is on there you can't take. Or you have to get what they call a therapeutic use exemption. So, say if you were a regular guy and you had low testosterone and you wanted to do TRT, you could get that approved through a therapeutic use exemption.

• 2:28:11Joe Rogan?

  That's very interesting.

• 2:28:12Speaker 02

  Through doctor.

• 2:28:13Joe Rogan?

  You can run in the marathon with a therapeutic use exemption of testosterone, which is a legitimate performance enhancing supplement.

• 2:28:21Speaker 02

  Theoretically, I don't know if, they'd have to look at your numbers and where you're at and like if this was real.

• 2:28:27Joe Rogan?

  Well, you're supposed to take a very specific amount. Like this was the issue with the UFC when the UFC had TUEs. And they had TRT, Vitor, those days when guys were taking like large amounts of that shit. And that's actually what stopped the program is that people started testing like off the fucking charts with testosterone. And they realized like, okay, these guys are straight up juicing.

• 2:28:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, for sure.

• 2:28:47Joe Rogan?

  So, but if you're a 60-year-old person and you want to run the marathon and you're on testosterone, it's legal.

• 2:28:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, and it should be. It's like, um, the TUE thing is still probably abused in some ways because we know these doctor-patient relationships. You can say, hey, I want to do this. Can you make it sound like this?

• 2:29:08Joe Rogan?

  Right, of course.

• 2:29:08Speaker 02

  And that's...

• 2:29:09Joe Rogan?

  That's always gonna be the case.

• 2:29:10Speaker 02

  I'm not even, I'm not even, all I'm saying is like, for, and I talked to Olympians about this situation because I want to make sure I understand it, right? It's like, if, if I'm as a regular citizen, so there's 9,000 runners in the Eugene Marathon. Are we all gonna be held to the standard of Olympic athletes?

• 2:29:31Joe Rogan?

  Right, are they testing everybody in the Eugene Marathon?

• 2:29:33Speaker 02

  They didn't test anybody.

• 2:29:34Joe Rogan?

  Anybody.

• 2:29:35Speaker 02

  So, there's, there's prize money that that's paid out. There's Olympic trials qualifying standards which are met, so now you're in the Olympic trials. And I, and I don't want to shit on the Eugene Marathon because these small, smaller marathons, they don't have the money to be testing 9,000 people.

• 2:29:55Joe Rogan?

  Of course.

• 2:29:55Speaker 02

  Probably, these tests are expensive. So, there, there's something to like, if it's a USATF, so United States of America Track and Field Association, if it's one of those events and it's for like a world championship or it's for like a, a, a team position, I get it. And it does need to be, for the Eugene Marathon with 9,000 people, it's not realistic to say... We're going to drug test everybody, or if you're taking whatever, you need a therapeutic use exemption because do you think USADA could review, say if people are taking three or four different medications times 9,000, they don't have the resource to to go through all those TUEs, right? It's not realistic.

• 2:30:39Speaker 02

  So there should be, in my opinion, two categories. You've got your regular runners, which I'm in, and you've got your elites, which are susceptible to this drug testing and these requirements. And that's totally fair, and I get that. And it's kind of why I've waded into this and said, I'll be the poster boy for this. I'll admit that I took BPC 157 to try to avoid surgery on my foot.

• 2:31:02Joe Rogan?

  Two years ago.

• 2:31:03Speaker 02

  And whatever the fallout, right? Whatever the fallout is, is what it is, because this needs to be discussed, because I talk to all these regular people who are doing all this stuff just to be healthy, to enjoy something that they love, which is running or competing in races. And everybody, like on the other side, on, you know, say, the clean sports side, which I am on that side, too, trust me, I want, I want clean sport. But they're like saying that, like, my time was so fast, it's almost into this, they talk about this age graded thing where, like, this guy who brought it up said, age graded, like, so what that, I think is what that looks at, is like, in my prime, if I ran a 239 at age 58, what was my potential when I was in my prime? Right?

• 2:31:48Speaker 02

  And it would, it's super fast, like, you know, like, world, like, 210 or 212, which would have won the Olympics back when I was 25, you know what I mean? So I understand why my time, it's just like, I'm almost too fast as a regular citizen to, in kind of like this gray area, like, should he be tested, or, or, I, I, whatever. But all I'm saying, like, if the rule is to test, or if I know the rules, I'm down, dude, I'm, I'm all for it. That's why I've been so transparent about what I've taken, what I've done, and what I was trying to avoid with the surgery.

• 2:32:26Joe Rogan?

  But it's also an important point. There's an important point about the sign up thing for the Eugene Marathon. If there's, if you're supposed to not take certain supplements, that's supposed to be stated in, in the marathon sign up, right?

• 2:32:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:32:41Joe Rogan?

  And it's not.

• 2:32:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, and I don't, I've never, I hardly look at that, but there's, now after all this, I looked at the waivers because, you know, you saw it has been, they sent me two really nice emails, just lovely emails that I haven't responded to. And they, they're trying to do the best they can, but if these waivers say, I looked at the waiver for, I did two races this year, Eugene Marathon and Cokerdona 250, and the waivers mention liability and insurance things. Doesn't mention anything about USATF or drug testing or any of these requirements. There's no mention of it.

• 2:33:18Joe Rogan?

  But it's also, what, the, the thing that doesn't make any sense is, first of all, BPC 157 is not a performance enhancing substance.

• 2:33:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:33:27Joe Rogan?

  It, it, it helps heal soft tissue injuries, it's very good for recovery from injuries. That was, that's one issue. The other issue is, it was two fucking years ago. There's no way that's affecting you in this year's Eugene Marathon. That is

• 2:33:40Speaker 02

  No.

• 2:33:41Joe Rogan?

  Long out of your system.

• 2:33:42Speaker 02

  It's a smokescreen. You know, we've talked about smokescreens here.

• 2:33:45Joe Rogan?

  Well, what he's doing is, is basically, he's accusing you because you took BPC 157, and he's saying you're lying about doing all these other things.

• 2:33:52Speaker 02

  I've been called a liar, a cheater, a doper, stealing, it's like,

• 2:33:57Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but it's all fine, but this is essentially what we were talking about earlier.

• 2:34:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:34:02Joe Rogan?

  What we were talking about earlier about people that are outliers, that are like, super successful, and they go, fuck that guy, that guy cheats, that guy does, that guy does. Same fucking thing.

• 2:34:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:34:09Joe Rogan?

  This guy can't appreciate that, here's a guy who was running a fucking marathon a day while working an eight-hour job. I was your friend then.

• 2:34:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:34:18Joe Rogan?

  This is real. I know you did this. I was always telling you to quit your job.

• 2:34:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:34:23Joe Rogan?

  I was the first guy telling you, quit that fucking job, you're killing yourself. I was worried about you because I know that your mind is so strong that you are willing to push your body to the point where it could actually fail. And Willpower is really important. Having a strong will will get you through so much in life that other people will not be able to pass. They will not be able to break through. But will could also get you killed, you know, and it could also ruin your life. You could hurt yourself to the point, you know, you hurt your back or something to the point where you'd never recover. It never comes back. Like you have to, there's like a fine line between mental toughness and just being able to see the big picture and go,

• 2:35:07Joe Rogan?

  it's actually smart to not be tough here. And it's not to deny my toughness. I gotta know that I am tough and have confidence in my toughness enough to give my body a break and rest myself. That's why I was always worried about you because you were doing things with no fucking sleep and I saw it. I know you did it. I watched. That guy's not doing this. And you have to understand that the kind of willpower that a guy like you has, or a guy like Goggins has, where they can do things where people go, no one could do that. The fuck they can't. Like, how many UFC fighters have you seen go and train with Goggins? And they're like, Israel Adesanya, world champion, world-class guy. Throwing up in a fucking garbage can, can't keep up with him.

• 2:35:47Joe Rogan?

  Tony Ferguson, like who is known in the MMA world for fucking superhuman endurance. Tony Ferguson would just walk people down in his prime. He was El Kukui. He was the fucking boogeyman. Cause he never got tired. And even if you hurt him, it didn't matter. He was gonna recover and come back after you. He was coming for your fucking soul. That guy was breaking down. Everybody breaks down. And it's, he's doing it in silence. No one even knows. He's doing it with no music. He's doing it by himself. No one's pushing him. He's a fucking full-on psychopath. They are real. There's real people out there that are really living like that. This guy should look at that and take inspiration from it. But he's got these ideological differences with you because he's a vegan.

• 2:36:31Joe Rogan?

  And because he thinks hunting is cruel and you're an asshole and you're killing animals and meanwhile, he needs to eat one of them fucking bear sticks. They're fucking delicious. Give me another one. I want, I want another one. Fucking awesome. They're, they're great. But it's just, it's just what we're talking about. It's- If you and that guy actually had a conversation, thank you. If you and that guy actually had a conversation and you were civil and there was no cameras and it was just two human beings having a conversation, I guarantee you probably have way more in common than you do not. You know, outside of the ideological differences about hunting and veganism and maybe a lack of understanding about what even veganism entails, but it's because most of it entails

• 2:37:14Joe Rogan?

  large-scale monocrop agriculture. If you're just buying plants, you are responsible for the death of a fucking countless number of creatures.

• 2:37:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:37:25Joe Rogan?

  Fact. End of story, especially if you start talking about bees.

• 2:37:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:37:29Joe Rogan?

  And avocados and almonds. Oh, I'm eating almonds, I'm healthy. You fucking killed a hundred billion bees, alright? Stop.

• 2:37:36Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 2:37:37Joe Rogan?

  Uh, outside of that, what are you both doing? You're both pushing yourself to the limits of your ability. And maybe if that guy had a bear sticker too and had some real protein, he'd have a better time.

• 2:37:49Speaker 02

  Well, I, I mean-

• 2:37:50Joe Rogan?

  That's true too, right?

• 2:37:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm-

• 2:37:52Joe Rogan?

  You need some real fucking protein.

• 2:37:53Speaker 02

  I am friends with a lot of people just like him in belief and like on the political spectrum or even the diet spectrum. And I, it hasn't affected our friendship at all because what I focus on is what do we have in common? We love the mountains, we love to run, we love to push ourselves. I don't need to align with everybody a hundred percent. So, I'm, I'm friends with tons of liberal people and love them. It's like, has nothing to do with anything. It's a, but for, for him, you know, I was on the radar for a few different reasons. This gave him like, the reason why, like, BPC 157 is banned for Olympians, not for a regular person. Right, we, regular people can take it.

• 2:38:37Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:38:37Speaker 02

  So I'm just like, he's like, do you know what the rules are? And I'm like, I don't give a fuck about the rules. So then he turned that into like, he doesn't care about the rules, he's gonna do everything, anything he wants. I'm like, no, I don't care about rules that don't apply to me. I'm just like- Whatever. So the rules that apply to me are, is this rule. And it's like, if you want to talk about rules, I follow the rules. Like I talked about purchasing, you know, when I was the buyer at my old job for 20 years, I had to go by laws and rules every day. And so I'm, I respect that if it has to do with me, if it like affects me, I'm like, okay, I understand it. Well, this one, you start bringing up these USATF sanctions and what I

• 2:39:21Speaker 02

  need to know when I sign a waiver for a race. And I look at the waiver and the waiver doesn't mention anything about this. This says if the USATF sanctioned event is, you know, if we're talking drug testing, it says, "Related published materials must contain the following language." So when I see that it says that must contain the following language, in my contract days, I'm like, well, that didn't say should, or didn't say may, because should and may means it doesn't have to.

• 2:39:54Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:39:54Speaker 02

  When it says must, it must. So it says it must say this, "Athlete who participate in this competition may be subjected to formal drug testing in accordance with..." blah, blah, blah, blah. So basically it has to have this language and it has to spell out exactly what it is. Their rules, their own rules say it must be included. I've never seen this language. It was never included in anything that I've agreed to with these, in regard to these races.

• 2:40:24Joe Rogan?

  So there's no responsibility to go to the website and find out what the standards are?

• 2:40:28Speaker 02

  No.

• 2:40:29Joe Rogan?

  It's just the waiver.

• 2:40:30Speaker 02

  Even if they had a link, like-

• 2:40:31Joe Rogan?

  Okay, right. And so if they said, "If you are going to race, you must be held to the standards of this race."

• 2:40:37Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:40:37Joe Rogan?

  You can go visit them on this website.

• 2:40:39Speaker 02

  That's fine. I would be like, oh, that was my bad. I didn't do that.

• 2:40:41Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:40:42Speaker 02

  They never mentioned it. So if somebody said, like, I didn't know BPC was banned for Olympians at all before this. I just thought that it was another, maybe you could get a TUE for, or I didn't even know what TUE was. But because- I just, it's not my world. My world is bow hunting. I just try to get in as good a shape as I can.

• 2:41:01Joe Rogan?

  You're not trying to do it for money. You're just doing it to compete.

• 2:41:03Speaker 02

  I've never won money. I've never been on a, a national team. If I wanted to be, if that was what I was gonna do, I would know everything about the rules, everything about what I could take or what I couldn't take. I mean, you can't take THC, you know, I mean, they say you can take it, but not on the day of competition. So, you know how long THC is in your system?

• 2:41:23Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:41:24Speaker 02

  So you took it the day before, but you didn't, but you're still gonna test hot for it.

• 2:41:27Joe Rogan?

  You just can't run high.

• 2:41:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, but, but as long as that lasts in your system, how are they gonna prove if you took it that morning?

• 2:41:34Joe Rogan?

  Well, they would have to be able to test your levels right after you race and they could determine whether or not you were actually intoxicated during the race. That's how, uh, Nick Diaz got popped when he fought Takanori Gomi.

• 2:41:45Speaker 02

  God.

• 2:41:46Joe Rogan?

  They said his, his fucking levels were off the charts.

• 2:41:49Speaker 02

  And that was USADA probably.

• 2:41:51Joe Rogan?

  Um, I don't believe it was. Uh, I believe that was, I think that was Pride and I think it was the first time that Pride had an event in the United States and they had it in Vegas, I believe. See if that's, that's right. It was a long time ago. I wanna say this is, God, I wanna say like 2005. It was a big win when Nick beat Takanori Gomi. Takanori Gomi was one of the big stars, uh, over in Pride and, uh, Nick, uh, he got him with a GoGo Plata, which is a crazy submission off your back. When you use the shin against the guy's neck and you're grabbing your foot from behind his head and it was nasty. But, uh, they said he was off the charts. They said he was high as a kite when he was fighting,

• 2:42:30Joe Rogan?

  which I fucking love. But you, you're not allowed to do that. And I think for good reasons. I don't think you should be allowed. But, look, um, the, the, the reality of, uh, these drug tests are, is that, um, if you're saying to a person that you can't take it the day of the competition,

• 2:42:51Joe Rogan?

  and they're a regular user, they're, they're, they're gonna have a lot of THC in their system.

• 2:42:55Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:42:56Joe Rogan?

  They just are. And also you could, you could take a very high dose of edibles the day before a race and you would still be intoxicated the day of the race.

• 2:43:05Speaker 02

  That's, that's...

• 2:43:07Joe Rogan?

  So what year was this?

• 2:43:10Joe Rogan?

  Apparently, the commission felt the level which Diaz tested at 175 was a considering factor in his performance during the fight. Dr. Tony Alamo, the commission's chair, said that, so it was Nevada, a result of 15 is considered positive. But Nevada State Athletic Commission has a threshold of 50, test positive for THC. They feel very comfortable that everybody that tests positive in Nevada is truly positive. Mr. Diaz was 175. This creates a unique situation. I was there at the fight. I believe you were intoxicated and that it made you numb to the pain. Did it help you win? I think it did. I don't, you know, listen, Diaz is gonna be numb to the pain anyway. He's one of the toughest fucking dudes that's ever lived.

• 2:43:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:43:55Joe Rogan?

  I don't, I don't know if you can make that argument, that it helped you win. I think it probably relaxed him. He likes it. He, you know, he probably could go out there high and fight more in his element, but he could fight in his element anyway. He was one of the best fighters on earth at the time. He's a world-class fighter. The idea that that helped him win is like, prove it. Prove it. He was beating everybody anyway.

• 2:44:15Speaker 02

  It's a stretch. It's like, I just don't think that we need to be opening the Pandora's Box to testing 9,000 people or having them, you know, like...

• 2:44:24Joe Rogan?

  Well, let's also be realistic about what you're saying, because what you're saying is if all you did was take that drug, it's not even a drug, take that peptide in 2024 for a broken foot, there's no fucking chance that helped you win a marathon two years later. It does not help, other than the fact that it helped to heal your broken foot. That's not performance enhancing. It's just not. This guy's kind of a hater. Not even kind of. He's a hater. Which I understand.

• 2:44:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. I mean, I admitted that I took it and it's like, at that, and actually, that night, I remember, I didn't even know when that was. I fucking can't remember when I go, went to Waze Wells, like, I thought it was like six months ago. I couldn't even fucking remember. So then I got ahold of him. I said, no, I need, you know, the details of my, my treatment. And, you know, it was in November of 2024. And I'm like, okay. But anyway, that night, I said, yeah, I've done stem cell, I've done TRT before, and mentioned BPC 157. And it's like, I didn't know when that was, but I just kinda... Because he was like coming at me. I'm just like, no, fuck off. It's like I do all this. I don't know whether this is approved or not. It has nothing to do with me. I'm not an elite athlete.

• 2:45:39Speaker 02

  I'm fucking bowhunter. So I was like, kinda wanted to just shit on him at that time. Well, he got what he needed because admitting to taking BPC for like Olympian is a huge deal because it's banned. Just for them, not for me. And that, then he could go to USADA and say, oh, this guy took a ban. And they're, you know, now they're like, it sucks. It's like they're in a position where, I don't know. It's just like so much, the public knows about it so much. It's like, you know, I got articles about me and talking about all this crazy shit. And I'm just like, I was just trying to not have two or three surgeries. It's just like, I'm not trying to win a fucking,

• 2:46:23Speaker 02

  my age category of marathon. And then they'll turn it into like, well, that's not fair to the other people who are, performing. I'm just like, it's not, we don't even know who's, what people are taking. I was like, I'm not even in this field of this elite field where this is, all I did was admit I was truthful. Everybody else just lies.

• 2:46:45Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, well, maybe, maybe lies, maybe doesn't. But the, the, the point is a giant percentage of people right now are taking peptides because they're very beneficial to help heal injuries. And if you're gonna run marathons like the way you run them with very fast times, you're probably training really hard. And if you're training really hard, you're probably gonna get injured.

• 2:47:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:47:04Joe Rogan?

  You know, it's just, but it's a hater thing is what it is. Or he's accusing you of lying, which I know you're not a liar.

• 2:47:11Speaker 02

  No, but.

• 2:47:12Joe Rogan?

  So this is the thing. He's, he's attacking your character, but it's also the fact that, you know, that quote that I love, all criticism is the tragic result of unmet needs. This guy's an elite athlete. No one knows who he is.

• 2:47:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:47:26Joe Rogan?

  You know, that's part of the problem. And then when someone who's very popular is creeping in on his times, like, that's like, how? How's that possible? He's 18 years older than me. Fuck this guy. No one ever wants to think that someone actually works harder than them.

• 2:47:38Speaker 02

  No, no. And, or, yeah, I mean, and, and I get that. I mean, I'm a human too. I understand how that can happen. But like, to call me like a doper trying to discredit everything I've, I've done. It's just like, it's so not even real.

• 2:47:55Joe Rogan?

  The approach.

• 2:47:57Joe Rogan?

  To use is to just be honest, lay it all out and leave it alone.

• 2:48:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:48:01Joe Rogan?

  Uh, I don't think like going after this guy and talking a lot of shit is in any way beneficial.

• 2:48:07Speaker 02

  I don't, I don't want, I want him, I want everyone to succeed. I don't have anything personal against this guy. I didn't like he was talking shit about Truitt.

• 2:48:14Joe Rogan?

  But even that, it's just, it's just haterade. He just sees Truitt running with those fucking perfect jeans on and looking all handsome. He's also a little too buff to be a marathon runner, which drives people nuts too.

• 2:48:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:48:27Joe Rogan?

  And then he also won the world pull-up challenge. Like, look, when someone breaks the world record at pull-ups, that isn't a fucking extraordinary human being, period. And for you to discredit that person in marathon running, after they've done that, well, you're a fool.

• 2:48:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:48:40Joe Rogan?

  Because this isn't just a regular person, right? This is a person who broke the world fucking record for chin-ups or pull-ups.

• 2:48:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:48:47Joe Rogan?

  That's a crazy thing to do.

• 2:48:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:48:49Joe Rogan?

  To do thousands of pull-ups in 24 hours, rip your fucking hands to shreds.

• 2:48:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:48:56Joe Rogan?

  That's an extraordinary person. For him to not recognize that, he's being a bitch.

• 2:49:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, it.

• 2:49:02Joe Rogan?

  Which is fine. It's a natural characteristic that a lot of human beings have.

• 2:49:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:49:07Joe Rogan?

  And especially ones that are not getting their needs met in terms of the attention they feel they deserve. And who are ideologically opposed to you because you're a hunter.

• 2:49:14Speaker 02

  What the, the traction he's got is because it's almost like if you say, you know how some people would say, oh, you're interested in border security, like protecting the border.

• 2:49:24Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:49:25Speaker 02

  Racist.

• 2:49:26Joe Rogan?

  Right, right, right.

• 2:49:27Speaker 02

  Racist. You're a Nazi.

• 2:49:29Joe Rogan?

  Right, you're a cheater.

• 2:49:29Speaker 02

  So to, to say that I'm a cheater or a doper, you don't have to say anything else. Because then it's like, oh, that guy. So now I'm, I'm kind of tainted by, with that language. When the fact of the matter is, this is years ago. I don't take any, I mean, I, I take plenty like fish oil, magnesium, all this other bullshit Trace gives me, but. The like the level of doping I know about, I don't know shit. I don't even, I don't know EP. I know we've talked about this before, but I don't even know really what EPO does other than make like more red blood cells or something. So there's more oxygen, but I'm so like illiterate on

• 2:50:08Speaker 02

  performance and like PEDs. I'm just like, I don't, I don't even take testosterone anymore because I run better low, which is weird. And I didn't know if this happened because they say when you run like long distances, extreme long distances, your testosterone drops. I almost think that's by design because I look at like how these women have been performing at these huge races. With low testosterone or higher estrogen, they perform better. And so I'm just like, man, maybe I don't need the TRT. Maybe, and so I haven't, like I had, I had, uh, I got a prescription filled like last September and I still have four of the things out of 10.

• 2:50:51Speaker 02

  And anybody who's a doper, they don't got dope sitting around. Like if you had, you know, if I don't care if it's meth or fucking testosterone, if you have it, you take it if you're a doper, right? So I haven't done it because I'm, I operate better with a low heart rate, low testosterone and I can run.

• 2:51:11Joe Rogan?

  But low body weight too. That's a big factor.

• 2:51:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm like 148 is what I got down to.

• 2:51:16Joe Rogan?

  What are you right now?

• 2:51:18Speaker 02

  Like 52.

• 2:51:19Joe Rogan?

  Wow. When I met you, you were in the eighties.

• 2:51:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, I was just lifting. I just, I always ran, but I'd run like five miles a day. And I wanted to be like, I thought like for hunting, I needed more muscle to perform. Because I need to carry heavy loads and things like that. Now I've realized that I'm better with extreme endurance and I'm still strong for, for like 148, still very strong compared to like a normal 148. So I, I'm still able to do the task I need to do, carry heavy loads when I kill.

• 2:51:51Joe Rogan?

  Right. You've optimized.

• 2:51:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, so.

• 2:51:53Joe Rogan?

  Well, this is the big factor is the weight because I'm pretty heavy.

• 2:51:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:51:57Joe Rogan?

  And I, I noticed the difference, you know, like I've lost. When I hunted a few years back, I got down to the 190s, early 192 or 193, and I felt way lighter.

• 2:52:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:52:09Joe Rogan?

  Like, you would think 10 pounds, because I weighed 202 this morning, you would think 10 pounds is not that big of a deal. It's a big deal.

• 2:52:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's a big deal.

• 2:52:17Joe Rogan?

  When I work out, and I put a 25-pound weight vest on.

• 2:52:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:52:21Joe Rogan?

  It's amazing how much harder it is to do chin-ups and push-ups and dips. It's amazing.

• 2:52:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:52:26Joe Rogan?

  And it's only 25 pounds.

• 2:52:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, no.

• 2:52:27Joe Rogan?

  And you think about how many people just normally carry 25 extra pounds. You're walking around all day with a weight vest on, you know?

• 2:52:34Speaker 02

  Well, and I've told Truett this too, it's like, he's heavier, but every guy lining up to run the Olympic Trials qualifier, or like when they run the Olympic Trials for the marathon, there won't be anybody over like 140. So I said...

• 2:52:50Joe Rogan?

  Which totally makes sense. You're fighting gravity.

• 2:52:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, you gotta be light.

• 2:52:54Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:52:54Speaker 02

  So I said, "You can't be 160 and compete."

• 2:52:57Joe Rogan?

  What is he at now?

• 2:52:58Speaker 02

  He's like 58.

• 2:53:00Joe Rogan?

  And what is he trying to get down to?

• 2:53:02Speaker 02

  He's gotta be in the 40s. Gotta be like 140 would be good.

• 2:53:04Joe Rogan?

  Oh my god, he's gonna look like Skeletor.

• 2:53:06Speaker 02

  The guy, the guy who I just ran with, who ran Eugene and set the course record and all that, he was 135, probably like 6'1".

• 2:53:14Joe Rogan?

  Whoa.

• 2:53:15Speaker 02

  That's just the name of the game.

• 2:53:16Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:53:17Speaker 02

  You, like, the East African's super light. The guy who just broke the world record in the marathon, he's like 135, or no, 115.

• 2:53:25Joe Rogan?

  Jeez.

• 2:53:25Speaker 02

  Tiny little guy, so it's like...

• 2:53:27Joe Rogan?

  Makes sense.

• 2:53:28Speaker 02

  That's just, that's just performance.

• 2:53:30Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:53:30Speaker 02

  That's just what it takes. A huge engine, a light body.

• 2:53:33Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:53:34Speaker 02

  And, uh, so, like, to paint me this way, when I was turned void of surgery, haven't taken BPC since then, um, it's just, it's kinda just...

• 2:53:46Joe Rogan?

  I think all you could do is state your case, and I think you just did, and you just did it really well, and I know you, and I can speak for you. You are as honest a human being as I've ever met in my life. You don't lie about anything. And you are, and it's also why you work so hard. You work so hard so you don't have to lie. I mean, you're, you're an insanely hard worker.

• 2:54:05Speaker 02

  I didn't, I didn't lie about this either. I mean, and that's what, I just said, "Yeah, I did." I didn't remember when, but... Looked it up. Here's when it was. Whatever.

• 2:54:13Joe Rogan?

  You know, this guy's got to get over it. Maybe you should have a conversation with him on Keep Hammering' Collective.

• 2:54:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, I don't, I would talk to, talk to anybody. I don't, you know, I talk to people who feel differently than me all the time.

• 2:54:24Joe Rogan?

  People, there's a, there's also a problem where people don't know someone and they don't communicate with them. And so you kind of form a narrative and then you fight that narrative, you know, you attack that narrative. You attack a creation of who the person is rather than the actual person. And people like to do that because they like to turn someone into a demon. You know, they like to turn someone to an, not even a person. That's how people have to do that with war. They love to do that with religion.

• 2:54:49Speaker 02

  It's easy to garner support with keywords, using keywords that nobody could defend. It would be like, okay, we got, that'll work right there. And so that's where, you know, the Nazi or the doper, the racist. That's why those words are always out there.

• 2:55:05Joe Rogan?

  Yep.

• 2:55:06Speaker 02

  It's like, because they're powerful.

• 2:55:07Joe Rogan?

  Exactly. That's exactly.

• 2:55:08Speaker 02

  And when, and when you, you know, when you get boxed in a corner, you can use those words and it buys you some time.

• 2:55:14Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, there's that. And then there's also, you know, there's a lot of people that don't have a good personal insight. They don't understand what they're doing, really. They think they're justified in what they're doing. Really, it's just a bunch of bitchy bullshit.

• 2:55:27Speaker 02

  One thing that I did, I think part of this, I don't want to be demonized about like with the peptides because it shouldn't be demonized. But one thing I think a lot of people, because as you said, a lot of people are taking these peptides, a lot of people are doing the TRT stuff. I think that there was a big shift when COVID happened as far as distrust in the health. I mean, basically our health and wellness category, like it started maybe with Obamacare. People are having trouble getting in their doctor. Doctors quit because it's too frustrating. So people, we've had a hard time getting medical treatment, like to be healthy. And then COVID happened and then they were shoving down, you know, the vaccine down our throats.

• 2:56:10Speaker 02

  And it turned out like it wasn't as safe and effective as they said. So I think people like, they see that, the writing was on the wall. They couldn't get in their doctor. The doctor was like, just writing prescriptions. So then the wellness clinics popped up, right? And it feels like it was after COVID for now, like you got a ways to well, and there's other places like it where you can go in and they care about how you feel. They want you to, they want to help you feel better. Like live like an optimized life. Like you're old, but you don't have to feel old. And so they're like, they can do the blood panel where getting a blood panel at your regular doctor was like pulling teeth for a while. It's like, no, we don't need to do that. But you go to a wellness clinic, they'll do it and they'll tell you, yeah, you're deficient here, this, this, that, we could add this, we could try this.

• 2:56:55Speaker 02

  And then also you start to feel better and you're like, well, these people care about my health. The doctor, what did he care about? Writing prescriptions?

• 2:57:02Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, the doctors, they're playing a totally different game as we could see from that hospital video that we just watched.

• 2:57:08Speaker 02

  So it's no wonder that waste wells and like these, these other treatments, maybe bypassing surgery and let's try this peptide. I, I see that it's kind of evolving and it's changing and the sport of ultra needs to also, and running needs to, to be on board with that. Because most of your field aren't elites and aren't Olympians.

• 2:57:30Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:57:30Speaker 02

  They're regular people who just are trying to do what they enjoy and that's me.

• 2:57:34Joe Rogan?

  While they're working a full-time job, most of them. Yeah. Well, I think you laid your case out and I gotta pee. So let's wrap this bad boy up and bring it home. Congratulations on your bear hunt. You got two giant monsters.

• 2:57:46Speaker 02

  Oh yeah, we got John and Jen.

• 2:57:48Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Shout out to John and Jen Rivet.

• 2:57:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:57:50Joe Rogan?

  I'm gonna try to come next year, swear.

• 2:57:52Speaker 02

  Love those guys.

• 2:57:53Joe Rogan?

  Love those guys. Um, I love that place they have up there too. It's crazy. And for people who don't know, um, those, these, these bear, uh, have no natural predators other than grizzlies. They have to be controlled. They are devastating the moose and deer and elk population up there because they kill all the calves. They, they, they're ruthless predators, opportunistic hunters. They eat each other.

• 2:58:16Speaker 02

  Just to put that in perspective, in Alaska, they're flying out of helicopters, shooting bear.

• 2:58:21Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:58:22Speaker 02

  Because

• 2:58:23Joe Rogan?

  There's so many of them.

• 2:58:23Speaker 02

  Not enough are getting killed, so they wipe out all the ungulates.

• 2:58:26Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:58:27Speaker 02

  So it's like, it, it's an issue. You just don't know about it. You, people don't know that Alaska is flying in helicopters, leaving bear after they kill them.

• 2:58:33Joe Rogan?

  I know, and everybody thinks of bears as Yogi. Yogi and Boo Boo and, you know. Come for a trip. Take a trip to Alberta. I'll show you some real shit.

• 2:58:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, no, it's a

• 2:58:45Joe Rogan?

  I remember when, you know, I've told this story, you know, Jen and I ran into a grizzly once when we're out there, just briefly, we only saw it briefly, we're like, let's get the fuck out of here.

• 2:58:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, they, they don't even hunt over there anymore because too many grizzlies. So that's like

• 2:58:59Joe Rogan?

  It's crazy.

• 2:58:59Speaker 02

  That's quite a ways from where we hunt now, just because

• 2:59:02Joe Rogan?

  Isn't that crazy?

• 2:59:02Speaker 02

  A grizzly starts coming in the bait.

• 2:59:04Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you gotta get out of there.

• 2:59:05Speaker 02

  That's a problem, especially, I like to sit on the ground.

• 2:59:07Joe Rogan?

  And they need to start hunting them up there too.

• 2:59:09Speaker 02

  They do, I know.

• 2:59:10Joe Rogan?

  And, you know, this is the, when they changed that law in B.C., they made it a fucking disaster up there, there's so many grizzly now.

• 2:59:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:59:17Joe Rogan?

  And it's just the people that live in these high population areas that don't have any encounters with them, and it's ballot box biology, it's people that, they're trying to be good people, do you want to outlaw trophy hunting? Yeah, these cruel assholes, they just want to shoot this animal for its skin, yeah, fuck them, they just want to show what a big man they are by killing an animal, like

• 2:59:36Speaker 02

  That guy calls me a trophy hunter, like, he's like, he's like, oh, I understand deer and elk hunting, but not bear, it's just like

• 2:59:42Joe Rogan?

  Well, you don't know what you're talking about.

• 2:59:44Speaker 02

  Did you just eat, how was that bear we just ate?

• 2:59:45Joe Rogan?

  It's delicious.

• 2:59:45Speaker 02

  How's that any different than deer and elk?

• 2:59:47Joe Rogan?

  My daughter went to school one day, and they were asking what your favorite food was, and she said bear candy, because Steve Rinella taught me a recipe called bear candy, how to make this like, it's like, you make it with brown sugar, and you cook this bear, and it's like a sweet and sour pork kind of deal, but with bear, it was fucking delicious, and I, I served it for my kids, and my daughter, I think she was just trying to, like, jostle people up a little bit, I ate bear!

• 3:00:13Speaker 02

  Well, Jen makes some badass bear stir fry.

• 3:00:16Joe Rogan?

  Oh, it's fantastic.

• 3:00:17Speaker 02

  I mean, I was

• 3:00:17Joe Rogan?

  Her bear meat is fantastic.

• 3:00:19Speaker 02

  I was just thinking to myself, Mountain Ops has those new freeze dried meals, maybe I need to get some

• 3:00:23Joe Rogan?

  Right, dehydrated

• 3:00:24Speaker 02

  Get some bear meat in there.

• 3:00:26Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah, Remy makes his own food, he, he does it all in a dehydrator, then it rehydrates it in camp, he vacuum seals his own stuff.

• 3:00:34Speaker 02

  Some of those meals, dude.

• 3:00:35Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, well, it's the best way to do it too, if you want to eat clean, if you want to eat clean in the mountains, you can get a dehydrator.

• 3:00:41Speaker 02

  For that energy, because, just like in ultras and performing, what you're using for calories matters.

• 3:00:47Joe Rogan?

  A hundred percent.

• 3:00:47Speaker 02

  So, especially on a long hunt, if you can, like, we had, I had some Mountain Ops freeze dried In there like chicken Alfredo. That's just fucking good, good calories.

• 3:00:57Joe Rogan?

  100% and also electrolytes. Boy, I it changed for me when I started using Element when I started throwing Element in my water when I was out there. Giant difference. Get those electrolytes.

• 3:01:08Speaker 02

  That's the first thing I drink in the morning.

• 3:01:10Joe Rogan?

  100%.

• 3:01:11Speaker 02

  Is an Element.

• 3:01:11Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 3:01:11Speaker 02

  Because I know I'm because I run every day. I know. I I think I've been also like low on sodium for a long time just because of how much I run.

• 3:01:20Joe Rogan?

  For sure.

• 3:01:21Speaker 02

  Like I run so much like. I get sores here because my shirt gets soaked with sweat.

• 3:01:26Joe Rogan?

  Uh huh.

• 3:01:26Speaker 02

  And wet clothes sitting on my skin has makes all these sores. From running for hours in in a wet shirt.

• 3:01:34Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy.

• 3:01:35Speaker 02

  And so.

• 3:01:35Joe Rogan?

  Guys wear their nipples out. They have to put.

• 3:01:37Speaker 02

  That, yeah, that hap- I wear like a.

• 3:01:39Joe Rogan?

  Band-aids?

• 3:01:39Speaker 02

  I wear like a.

• 3:01:40Joe Rogan?

  A bra?

• 3:01:41Speaker 02

  Sort of, well, it's. It's like a little running pack, but it holds my shirt right there on my tits. But this here bounces and it's like just being wet, but.

• 3:01:50Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy. It's makes sores on your skin just from a T-shirt.

• 3:01:54Speaker 02

  It does, just from being.

• 3:01:55Joe Rogan?

  Maybe you should start running in silk.

• 3:01:57Speaker 02

  Just from being warm, but. I think that I was sweating so much that when I do that element first thing in the morning. It sets me up for the whole day to to be able to perform at a higher level.

• 3:02:08Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, even just some sea salt in your water like you need you need minerals. Everybody does need electrolytes. All right, let's wrap it up.

• 3:02:16Speaker 02

  Yep, all right, buddy.

• 3:02:17Joe Rogan?

  My brother, I love you to death.

• 3:02:18Speaker 02

  Love you too.

• 3:02:18Joe Rogan?

  You're awesome. Glad you had an opportunity to come on here and this is all very important stuff to talk about. And one more time, that number for everybody who want to call that number.

• 3:02:26Speaker 02

  I know. Call your call your center 202-234-3121. Say Roadless Rule needs to keep stay intact. Mike Lee can suck a big fat one.

• 3:02:38Joe Rogan?

  America, fuck yeah. Bye, everybody.