#2509 - Caleb Hammer

Caleb Hammer is a YouTuber and host of the program “Financial Audit.”www.youtube.com/c/calebhammerwww.patreon.com/calebhammerwww.calebhammer.com Perplexity: Download the app or ask Perplexity anything at https://pplx.ai/rogan. Take 50% off a SimpliSafe system at https://simplisafe.com/ROGAN Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  The Joe Rogan Experience.

• 0:12Joe Rogan?

  Good to see you, son.

• 0:13Speaker 02

  You too, nice to meet you.

• 0:14Joe Rogan?

  Very nice to meet you too. I enjoy your content.

• 0:16Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 0:17Joe Rogan?

  You're a very sensible person.

• 0:18Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 0:18Joe Rogan?

  And you deal with a lot of very unsensible people.

• 0:22Joe Rogan?

  How do you fucking keep your shit together when you talk to these people? You're a fu- we tell everybody, you're a finance guy. And did you start out in debt and then figured out how to get your shit together?

• 0:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly. I was in college doing all the stupid American things, right? So you got that unlimited student loan debt for a bullshit degree. I was going for music composition, so a complete bullshit degree. Maxing out every credit card, one of the first pieces of financial advice I got at 18 from the parents, max out a credit card to get the piano I wanted. So, that's smart.

• 0:54Joe Rogan?

  Your parents gave you that advice?

• 0:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, this is the average American experience. You just max out a credit card. I don't know if your parents taught you anything about personal finances, but

• 1:02Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 1:02Speaker 02

  most don't. It's bad. So I was just maxing out every credit card, like everyone that comes on the show, like every American out there. We got 1.6 trillion dollars in credit card debt in this country, by the way.

• 1:14Joe Rogan?

  Woo!

• 1:15Speaker 02

  Crazy amount, crazy amount. Defaults are to like 7%, which is insane. 7% of credit cards defaulting.

• 1:22Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy.

• 1:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:23Joe Rogan?

  That is really nuts.

• 1:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:26Joe Rogan?

  Almost 1 out of 10 default.

• 1:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's absolutely insane. But we have more auto loan debt in this country than credit cards, too.

• 1:32Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 1:33Speaker 02

  Which is even crazier, because Americans, you know, they're big pickup trucks and everything. But, either way, I was doing that. Got my Nissan Altima and, you know, thinking I was sick driving around. And going into debt for that, family debt, everything. It was brutal, but it was the average American life. That's what people are going through every single day. And I finally got a wake-up call. I just, I was sitting in my shitty apartment that I could barely afford, and I realized...

• 2:06Speaker 02

  The life I wanted to live just could not be sustained this way. I wanted to be a homeowner. It's the American dream, pick a fence, all that shit.

• 2:14Joe Rogan?

  Yep.

• 2:14Speaker 02

  Um, but there's no way to do it with max out credit cards, private student loans, public student loans. Everything. It was a mess. So got a sales job, just started grinding it out, paying off the debt, fully funded emergency fund. And that's what I try to teach people now, but you know, again, the average American is kind of an idiot with money, which is fair.

• 2:35Joe Rogan?

  Well, they're not.

• 2:36Speaker 02

  Their system.

• 2:37Joe Rogan?

  You know, which is one of the things I think your content really helps because a lot of people don't know what to do. Like you're in debt, like, how the fuck do I get out of this? And a lot of people they know are in debt, so they don't have good advice. They're not gonna get from their parents, right? So where, you know, they have to turn to somebody. And a lot of times like financial people online are very stiff and they're not enjoyable to listen to. But you talk shit and you're very vocal and it's like, huh, okay, I get this guy. I can relate to him.

• 3:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:06Joe Rogan?

  Tell me what to do. So there's a lot of folks out there that connect with you because of that, I think.

• 3:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, they call us the Jerry Springer of finance.

• 3:13Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 3:13Speaker 02

  Which I like. I take it. I take the ownership. They meant it as a dig at first, but I take it because it's fun.

• 3:19Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 3:19Speaker 02

  People, people don't go into financial topics because it's boring. Why are you clicking on a video of a dude just like sitting at the camera, just like, you know, oh, IRAs or this? No one's gonna get into that.

• 3:32Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 3:33Speaker 02

  Personal finance class, like 40% of states, which is, or almost 40 states out of the 50 states, require a personal finance class now, which is big progress over the last decade. But, I mean, I was a piece of shit in high school. I'm sleeping through that class.

• 3:47Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 3:48Speaker 02

  I'm, I'm not gonna listen to things there. I, I, I couldn't, I could barely pass math. Um, schools is boring, so people still aren't gonna pick it up there. They want something a little more interesting to get into and we give them that with the roasts, the dramas, the relationships of couples episodes are my favorite because there's always financial, financial stresses in relationship. And, um, I don't know, if that actually gets people into personal finances.

• 4:19Speaker 02

  That's the best. That's the best, because we get, you know, we get millions of views per episode on all platforms.

• 4:24Joe Rogan?

  It's kind of, yeah, it's kind of a crime that they're not explaining to people when they're young and in high school, how this could be a problem. They're trying to set you up for life, but they're not setting you up for one of the biggest problems that most people face. Credit card debt and the big one, student loan debt, because that's the one you can't get away from. And there's a lot of people that are just go, "Well, I guess I have to go to college." And look, higher education's great. It's good to be educated. It's good to get an education. But if you're spending hundreds of thousands of dollars for an education that you aren't going to use at all, that might not be the best thing for you. And when you're fucking eighteen, you really don't know. You know, you don't know what you want to do.

• 5:06Speaker 02

  Your parents don't know anything either.

• 5:08Joe Rogan?

  No, they might be retarded. You might have idiot parents.

• 5:11Speaker 02

  Well, no, the average parent in America is go to any college to get any degree and borrow whatever it takes.

• 5:16Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 5:17Speaker 02

  Because college is the answer to all.

• 5:19Joe Rogan?

  Because it used to be.

• 5:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 5:20Joe Rogan?

  It used to be the way that you got a good paying job. You get out of college and, hey, you've got a degree. Oh, you got your masters. Well, you're,

• 5:28Joe Rogan?

  oh, where are you gonna live? Where are you gonna buy a house? Like, you're gonna be set. What they don't tell you is that you are gonna be saddled down with insane amounts of debt, and then that debt compounds. It keeps going. So like, I was reading this thing, I mean, you can tell me about what the actual numbers are, but they were talking about the average actual debt that you owed, but what you wind up paying, what you actually wind up paying over the twenty years that it takes you to pay it off. It's fucking crazy. It's substantially higher than the initial loan.

• 6:00Speaker 02

  Part of it is laziness, too. People get on like that twenty-year payment plan or forty-year payment plan because they want to spend a little bit, you know, just a little bit less right now. Because, I mean, it makes sense. You get out of college, you want to get an apartment, you want to live it up, you want to go on nice dates and trips, all that good stuff. So you do the little minimum monthly payment. But let me think about it. I assume you have a mortgage, right? Do you have a mortgage?

• 6:21Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 6:22Speaker 02

  Okay. If you took that thirty-year mortgage, but you're like, okay, I want to pay a smaller amount now, so it's stretched it to sixty years. Interest and overall payment you're gonna do is insane.

• 6:31Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 6:32Speaker 02

  So the student loan, a public student loan, it's actually a ten year payment. That's the standard. It's a ten year payment. You'll be done in ten, but people stretch it to twenty years. The repayment assistance under Trump, the, uh, the RAP plan, that can be as little as one percent of your income on a monthly basis. That'll never be paid off.

• 6:51Joe Rogan?

  Never.

• 6:52Speaker 02

  Those people will have it forever.

• 6:54Joe Rogan?

  Forever.

• 6:54Speaker 02

  It'll be forgiven in forty years, it says. We'll see, cause, you know, it's new. But when people are doing that, they're gonna have it forever. It's gonna balloon and then they're gonna complain about it when they chose not to just take the standard ten year plan.

• 7:08Joe Rogan?

  I saw the, an article about people with social security. So they're, they're retired and their money, their social security money is getting docked.

• 7:17Joe Rogan?

  It's getting docked because they're taking money out of that to pay for your student loans.

• 7:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, I'm.

• 7:22Joe Rogan?

  That obviously didn't work out for you because you're literally in debt from that student loan while you're retired from life.

• 7:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 7:29Joe Rogan?

  Which is fucking wild.

• 7:31Speaker 02

  It is, but I'll be candid. I'm starting to not have sympathy for the boomers. I'm really not.

• 7:35Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 7:35Speaker 02

  Best job market ever, best stock market in the history of the world. Every single boomer, Gen X, whatever, that's been on my show. They lived it up and spent all their money to live the lifestyle they wanted and they didn't even set ten percent aside a month. Ten percent aside. They had the best housing market, college, jobs. They were set up for everything. If they just put five to ten percent a month aside in the stock market that they had, that they had. They would be, they would be multimillionaires. Most of them would be multimillionaires. But instead, we're in a situation where.

• 8:12Joe Rogan?

  I want a new BMW.

• 8:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, they can't pay their student loans, social security, twenty thirty-three, that's when the funds dry. So payments get cut by twenty-five percent. Yeah.

• 8:24Joe Rogan?

  Twenty thirty-three is when the funds dry up for social security?

• 8:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, the actual fund that's sitting there. So every dollar that goes out is money that's coming in. That's projected twenty thirty-three.

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• 10:16Joe Rogan?

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• 11:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, we just had a clip go viral, uh, two days ago. A transgender woman, Colorado.

• 11:43Joe Rogan?

  I saw the video.

• 11:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, taxpayer-funded boobs, so that's nice.

• 11:47Joe Rogan?

  The way you explained it, or the way she explained it, was hilarious. You know, like, something about how her body's priceless. So like, how much do they cost? They're free.

• 11:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, I can't blame her, though. I mean, the program's there, right?

• 11:59Joe Rogan?

  Of course.

• 12:00Speaker 02

  So I'd take it if I wanted some new tits.

• 12:02Joe Rogan?

  Of course.

• 12:03Speaker 02

  But it's crazy that we are, and of course, the when we filmed it was like two days after I wrote a $4 million, you know, income tax check, whatever, to the federal government.

• 12:12Joe Rogan?

  Right, and you're thinking about this, like, where's that money go?

• 12:15Speaker 02

  It's going to tits, not funding proper social security.

• 12:18Joe Rogan?

  Well, we were talking before about how Gavin Newsom wouldn't do your podcast.

• 12:22Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 12:22Joe Rogan?

  But it's probably because, like, that kind of debt, when you think about, like, California's debt, and California's spending, and the waste and potential fraud, I look at it like a garbage dump. Like, someone's saying, "Hey, go look into that garbage dump and clean it up." I'm like, "Oh, it's too much." And I think that's how most people look at it. They look at it like... Twenty-four billions missing for the homeless? How much money went to that rail? That fucking high-speed rail? Like billions of dollars later, there's nothing done? Like, what are you doing?

• 12:56Speaker 02

  Which is insane, because America, the leader of the world, should have incredible high-speed rail.

• 13:00Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 13:01Speaker 02

  I want it. I wanna go to Dallas, Houston, in a couple hours on a high-speed rail. Maybe Texas could do it, but just give California anything and they'll find a way to mess it up and lose all the money.

• 13:10Joe Rogan?

  Well, this is like, the rail one is crazy, because like, nothing's been... How much have they spent on the high-speed rail so far? It's something bonkers.

• 13:18Speaker 02

  Billions.

• 13:18Joe Rogan?

  Some insane amount of money, and nothing's been done. And there's this guy on YouTube, do you remember the guy on YouTube, Jamie? Uh, he's on Instagram, rather. The guy was on Instagram who says, "In the same amount of time that it took California to not do that, this is what China's done." And it just, over and over and over again, all the miles of high-speed rail they put in, all the this, all the that, all... Like, for the same amount of money that California spent, this is what could have been done.

• 13:43Speaker 02

  It's crazy.

• 13:44Joe Rogan?

  Fucking nuts.

• 13:45Speaker 02

  Brightline's private.

• 13:47Joe Rogan?

  Spent an order of mid-teens of billions. Mid-teens, so far, on the high-speed rail, roughly around fourteen to sixteen billion dollars as of the mid-2020s? How much of it is done, Jamie? How much of that rail's done?

• 14:01Speaker 04

  Well, some of it is actually getting close to done, I think.

• 14:04Joe Rogan?

  Oh, my god, amazing.

• 14:05Speaker 02

  To what, Bakersfield to...

• 14:12Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. How much is completed? Fourteen feet.

• 14:20Joe Rogan?

  Very little.

• 14:21Speaker 04

  Hundred and nineteen miles are under active construction.

• 14:23Joe Rogan?

  Oh, hundred and nineteen miles. Madera near Bakersfield are under active construction. What a great way to spend fourteen billion dollars. I bet the homeless people are pissed, you could've spent that money on us.

• 14:34Speaker 02

  And then, once it's done, you'll get on the train, you'll have fare evaders, people that just jumped over that are doing drugs on the train.

• 14:43Joe Rogan?

  If you were 25 in 1990, you made an average US salary for 40 years, saving 5 to 10% per month in the S and P 500, how much would they have now? They would have around 2 to 5 billion dollars, depending on exact assumptions. Starting with 21,000 dollars. Holy shit.

• 15:00Speaker 02

  Like, this is hard for me to... And they... We have the best disposable income in the history of the world.

• 15:06Joe Rogan?

  This is how crazy inflation is. The average salary in 1990 was 21,000 dollars.

• 15:13Speaker 02

  That's crazy.

• 15:14Joe Rogan?

  Isn't that nuts? Imagine if someone told you you had to live off 21,000 dollars today? You'd be like, "Oh, fuck."

• 15:20Speaker 02

  And yet, even still, they could retire multimillionaires. Even still, even with that. It's beautiful.

• 15:25Joe Rogan?

  That is nuts if you know how to do it. But how would someone start doing something like that?

• 15:31Speaker 02

  Honestly, low-cost index funds, I'm sure you got a money guy, but for the average American, there's these target date retirement funds. So, Fidelity or whatever you want to use, they have... Essentially, you just pick like, within the five years that you think you're gonna retire, you just buy into that, and it just, it balances it for you. It goes more aggressive now, and just more conservative by the time you retire. It's so easy. There's no reason most people, like, aren't doing it. Even in their 401K where it's free money matches and everything. It doesn't really make sense.

• 16:02Joe Rogan?

  So, did you have to teach yourself all this stuff?

• 16:04Speaker 02

  I mean, I'll be honest. Pretty much any personal finance book, or just like, not even a class. Just watch like, a couple YouTubers, the dry YouTubers that maybe no one's watching. And I mean, you'll get it like this. It's, it's super simple, that kind of stuff. It gets a little harder if you're thinking like, what kind of perfect insurances do I need? You know, if you're trying to individually stock trade. You know what scares me, though? People in our position, right now, people under 30, 60%, 60% of them are doing their portfolio trades based on the podcasters they're listening to. That's what's scary to me.

• 16:41Joe Rogan?

  What? Really?

• 16:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, 60%.

• 16:42Joe Rogan?

  Which podcasts are giving them advice?

• 16:45Speaker 02

  Any personal finance.

• 16:48Speaker 02

  Any personal finance, no, even on like Kick or Twitch, there's streamers. I'll log on in the morning to see who's streaming and some of the top viewed people are day traders.

• 16:57Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 16:57Speaker 02

  With like 25,000 concurrent viewers that are getting hundreds of thousands of views a day.

• 17:02Joe Rogan?

  Okay, so the Kick streamers that are doing finance, are they just essentially like letting people know what they're trading and what to trade?

• 17:08Speaker 02

  Exactly. It's crazy. So they're following along.

• 17:10Joe Rogan?

  Basically just mirror them?

• 17:11Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 17:12Joe Rogan?

  So you could say, okay, buy BlackRock, whatever you want to buy, whatever they're doing, you'll do like, sort of like the Pelosi stock trader.

• 17:20Speaker 02

  Yes, which I bought into the Pelosi fund.

• 17:23Joe Rogan?

  Yeah?

• 17:23Speaker 02

  It's doing really well.

• 17:24Joe Rogan?

  I bet it is.

• 17:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, I only put a thousand dollars in there. I was a little scared, but it's doing really well. It's beating my own money, guys. So.

• 17:32Joe Rogan?

  Kind of hilarious.

• 17:33Speaker 02

  I mean, she knows what she's doing or her people knows what she's doing.

• 17:36Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah. Someone knows something. Yeah, they know something. It's just, it's crazy that it's legal. It's crazy that you could know, oh, we're gonna do this big deal with AI chips. And so Nvidia makes AI chips. I'm just gonna buy a shit ton of Nvidia stock and then boom, we pass this thing. Hey, look at that, 500% increase. Whee!

• 17:59Speaker 02

  I think my thousand's up like 20 or 30% in just a couple of months.

• 18:02Joe Rogan?

  Ah.

• 18:03Speaker 02

  It's crazy. It's crazy. S and P 500, what he searched up averages 10% a year. So it's crazy.

• 18:10Joe Rogan?

  It is, it is nuts. You know, and like, what are the laws? It's like, you could clearly follow her, but what are the laws in terms of like what she's allowed to do? Like, how much information is she allowed to have?

• 18:27Speaker 02

  Yeah. Well, that's what's hard to track, right? The insider trading's hard to track. They're getting into that shit with Kalshi now.

• 18:33Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 18:34Speaker 02

  You know, some of the people that were in the operation for Maduro in Venezuela, they're getting in trouble. George Santos, you know George? Did you ever have George Santos?

• 18:42Joe Rogan?

  No, but he's hilarious.

• 18:43Speaker 02

  Yes, he's hilarious, but big investigation just opened up yesterday or today.

• 18:48Joe Rogan?

  Oh, no, he just got a pardon for something else.

• 18:50Speaker 02

  He bet, he, he went on Instagram or something and he was like, hey, guys, I'm gonna 100% be at the State of the Union. 100%, I'm gonna be there. Here's my seat. And then he immediately bet that he will not be at the State of the Union.

• 19:05Joe Rogan?

  Oh!

• 19:06Speaker 02

  So four people close to him have been working with the FTC on that.

• 19:11Joe Rogan?

  Oh my God, he's retarded.

• 19:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 19:13Joe Rogan?

  That's so dumb.

• 19:13Speaker 02

  After a pardon and everything.

• 19:14Joe Rogan?

  That's so dumb, bro. You got free. And you're fun. You should just do a podcast. That guy should, he could make millions doing a podcast.

• 19:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, he's been on other podcasts. He's good.

• 19:24Joe Rogan?

  He would be great.

• 19:25Speaker 02

  He's a sassy gay. He's perfect for the camera.

• 19:27Joe Rogan?

  Sassy, fun, smart, talks a lot of shit. He would be great as a host of a podcast. Don't fucking do scams like that.

• 19:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, insider trading. So I guess that's his future now.

• 19:37Joe Rogan?

  We had a, there's a, was it Polymarket? What was it? Where they had odds on things that we do, what we're gonna say, what guests we're gonna have on?

• 19:45Speaker 04

  Probably both of them.

• 19:45Joe Rogan?

  Probably both of them.

• 19:46Speaker 04

  I don't look into it.

• 19:47Joe Rogan?

  We looked, I said, Jamie, shut that fucking laptop and do not open that website ever again. Because like, you could do it. Like, we could rig it.

• 19:54Speaker 02

  I kinda want to.

• 19:55Joe Rogan?

  But anybody could.

• 19:56Speaker 02

  I'm not going to, but I kinda wanna bet that I would be on here.

• 19:59Joe Rogan?

  Right. Like, what are the odds? Like, you could probably bet a substantial amount of money through some fucking offshore account.

• 20:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 20:05Joe Rogan?

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• 21:05Speaker 02

  Both Pelosi, who knows? I mean, other people in Congress, they wanna, they wanna pass something where they can only invest in like, large cap index funds like the S and P 500. They're not passing it. They don't care.

• 21:17Joe Rogan?

  They don't care. It's also, it's completely bipartisan. You know, it's not like it's, Nancy Pelosi is the scapegoat. She's the one that everybody beats on. But if you look at it, it's red, blue, across the line, they're all doing it.

• 21:29Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 21:30Joe Rogan?

  They're all trading, they're all making shit tons of money. They all go into Congress broke, they all come out rich as fuck.

• 21:35Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 21:35Joe Rogan?

  And they get a hundred thousand dollars a year. Fuck off. Fuck off. It's crazy. What is, uh, pull up the Santos case, find out what's happening. I'm fascinated by that.

• 21:46Speaker 04

  Honestly, he, uh, it's, uh, I guess it was yesterday. He was contacted by NPR and

• 21:53Joe Rogan?

  He's contacted by NPR?

• 21:55Speaker 04

  Was like, it's news to me.

• 21:56Joe Rogan?

  He said it's news to him?

• 21:57Speaker 04

  There you go. Reached by NPR.

• 22:00Joe Rogan?

  Uh, well, that's news to me. When asked about the insider trading probe underway, this activity on Caleb. Santos said, "I'm not saying yes, I'm not saying no." When the NPR questioned whether he had a Caleb account. He wanted to say the co-founder of Caleb, Luana Lopez Lara, is a fellow Brazilian whom he personally knows. He said he would call her to get to the bottom whether an investigation had been launched. Santos promised to update NPR on how the call went. He did not respond to NPR's follow-up messages.

• 22:30Joe Rogan?

  The thing is, like, he had some crazy background discrepancies that, you know, they deviated from the truth slightly. Right? There was some other stuff. It wasn't just this. Like, that's what the guy does.

• 22:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 22:45Joe Rogan?

  But meanwhile, he's in this amazing position. He's got a name, he's famous, people like him, he's fun. And he got a fucking pardon from the president. Like, bro, straight and narrow.

• 22:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 22:56Joe Rogan?

  Get yourself a podcast. Get yourself a YouTube show. You'd make some real money. He would make some real money.

• 23:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, I don't know. I don't know what's going on with that guy, man. I really don't. I think he was just trying to get that, get rich quick.

• 23:09Joe Rogan?

  Let's see, Jamie put it into perplexity. It says, "He built much of his public persona on false claims about his biography, finances, and identity, and later also faced criminal charges tied to deception and fraud." Damn. "He falsely claimed degrees from Baruch," is that how you say it? Baruch College in New York and NYU, even though, uh, even saying he graduated summa cum laude, although he has no college degree.

• 23:36Joe Rogan?

  He said he worked at Goldman Sachs and Citigroup. Both firms reported no record of him as an employee. Finances and career Santos portrayed himself as a seasoned Wall Street financier and successful businessman, reporting a rapid jump in income and large loans to his campaign while journalists found big gaps and unclear sources of wealth. He claimed Jewish heritage and that his grandparents were Holocaust refugees, later backing off saying he was Jew-ish. After his maternal family background, not actually Jewish. He also made disputed statements about being a landlord with a family real estate portfolio and about his mother's death being related to 9/11, although she died in 2016.

• 24:19Speaker 02

  That's crazy. What a king. I love him.

• 24:22Speaker 04

  There's a bunch more.

• 24:23Joe Rogan?

  Animal rescue claims. He said he founded a nonprofit that rescued 2,500 cats and dogs, but reporters found no records of such an organization. Cultural and lifestyle claims. Brazilian drag performer shared photos of Santos in drag. He initially denied ever doing drag and later minimized it as just dressing up for a festival when he was young. That's a funny dude. That's, he's a funny dude.

• 24:50Speaker 02

  Back to jail.

• 24:51Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, he's fucked. He was sentenced to 87 months in prison for wire fraud and aggravated identity theft, with officials describing his conduct as a mountain of lies, theft and fraud. His short house tenure ended with expulsion after an ethics report detailed misuse of campaign funds, including personal luxury spending. Fucking dude, you could have been in jail for 87 months. And you got out? And you blew it all on a bet? Like, how much did he make off the bet?

• 25:24Speaker 02

  It's very fresh, this story. I, I heard it on the news this morning. Homie.

• 25:30Speaker 04

  I don't think it said specifically how much. Because it was more about what he did, so I don't think, do they track his account? I don't think, I don't think they've announced like how much he bet on it.

• 25:40Speaker 02

  And that, that is hard to tra- trace, which is why I think he did it.

• 25:43Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 25:44Speaker 02

  I mean, tho- those platforms are hard to trace. I think Polymarket, I think they're specifically like even just in crypto on the backend.

• 25:51Joe Rogan?

  Oh, really?

• 25:52Speaker 02

  If I'm not mistaken, or in those similar kind of exchanges. So, like, i- it's hard to track.

• 26:00Speaker 02

  So it's a good place to insider trade, and he made some money, but I think, I listened on the news this morning, and it said four people close to him reported him, though.

• 26:07Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 26:08Speaker 02

  So.

• 26:09Joe Rogan?

  Well, when you're that kind of a fraudster allegedly, and that kind of a liar allegedly, you tend to not have close friends.

• 26:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 26:18Joe Rogan?

  That you could trust. You'd probably fuck those guys over, too.

• 26:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 26:21Joe Rogan?

  But they're, they're turning him in, allegedly.

• 26:25Joe Rogan?

  Uh, I think it's funny, though, because it's like, it's really unfortunate, because you, he had a real opportunity. Like, he became a public person.

• 26:33Speaker 02

  Maybe he still does, maybe he'll get another pardon.

• 26:35Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 26:36Speaker 02

  Who knows?

• 26:36Joe Rogan?

  I doubt it. I doubt he'll give him a pardon for that.

• 26:39Speaker 02

  I don't know why he got the first one.

• 26:40Joe Rogan?

  He'd probably be so mad if Trump got a phone call from him.

• 26:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 26:43Joe Rogan?

  Asking for a second pardon.

• 26:45Speaker 02

  Why did he get the first one, do you know?

• 26:46Joe Rogan?

  I have no idea. Let's find out. Let's ask. Yeah, how, why did he get pardoned?

• 26:54Joe Rogan?

  There's a lot of people that got pardoned where you're like, wait, what?

• 26:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 26:57Joe Rogan?

  The Biden thing was nuts. Where they pardoned more people than ever, ever, any president, ever. And how much of it, how much of it was done with the auto pen? So, he's literally like barely there, right? We all agree, at this point. I mean, there used to be dispute, oh, yeah, it was a stutter. We all now say he was barely there. So, someone else was doing that. So, what's the legality of that? What is the legality of selling pardons?

• 27:25Speaker 02

  And the preemptive pardons, too.

• 27:27Joe Rogan?

  Oh, those are nuts.

• 27:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:28Joe Rogan?

  Those, how about for crimes that just don't exist?

• 27:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:31Joe Rogan?

  There's no, you've not been accused of anything. What'd you do? He did not receive a pardon. His prison sentence was commuted by President Donald Trump, which led him out. ...a prison early but left his convictions in place. Interesting. In October 25th, uh, October of 2025, rather, um, Trump signed a commut- commutation with, uh, for former representative George Santos, ordering his immediate release from federal prison where he was serving a roughly seven-year sentence for fraud and identity theft. Commutation shortens or shortens or eliminates the punishment, but does not erase the conviction or declare the person innocent, unlike a full pardon. Trump said Santos had been horribly mistreated and had spent long periods in solitary confinement, which Trump framed as too harsh for a rogue

• 28:16Joe Rogan?

  politician compared with others. Commentators widely interpret the move as fitting Trump's pattern of granting clemency to political allies and loyalists rather than based on traditional justice system criteria. I mean, look, it's a weird thing that you could do. The fact that you're the president and you could just say, "What did you do? You robbed a bank? Eh, you're sorry. Get free." Meanwhile, if you don't know the president, you're in the bank forever. Like, that is a crazy loophole that still exists that makes no logical sense whatsoever.

• 28:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, you just help people around you, or your kids, whatever it is.

• 28:51Joe Rogan?

  Or a friend of a friend.

• 28:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 28:53Joe Rogan?

  Or somebody. Yeah, somebody hooks you up and you know them and their cousin needs a thing and there's a guy and maybe he did it, maybe he didn't. You can get him out.

• 29:04Speaker 02

  I mean, I'd pardon a lot of people if I was president.

• 29:05Joe Rogan?

  I would pardon a fucko to people.

• 29:07Speaker 02

  I get it.

• 29:08Joe Rogan?

  Well, we've, on this show, we've done a lot of work with my friend Josh Dubin, uh, who used to work with the Innocent Project and, um, now he works with the Ike Perlmutter setter for, uh, legal justice and, or criminal justice. So it's all people that are wrongly convicted and there's a shit ton of them. And you find out that there's these rogue politicians or the, rather prosecutors, these rogue prosecutors and rogue DAs and rogue cops that just have fucking dozens and dozens of bullshit convictions where they fucking hid evidence. They absolutely knew the person that they arrested was the wrong person. They don't care. They just want a conviction. They just, they don't care. They, they, they lose their ability to give a fuck whether or not the person that's in jail is actually

• 29:53Joe Rogan?

  guilty of that crime. And they justify it in their head, "Well, he was a drug dealer or he was a this or he was a that and he fucked off his whole life. We're better off with him being in jail. Let me go to Morton's and have a steak."

• 30:05Speaker 02

  You take that and then you compare it with like every violent crime that has happened in Austin this year are people that have been repeat criminals just let loose.

• 30:15Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah, yeah.

• 30:16Speaker 02

  Okay, so locking up people that don't deserve it and then a guy, a guy off a 360 here in Austin killed his family and he was let out a couple of times before.

• 30:24Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah, I'm not a fan of that. That's a different thing, you know, um, so you got both things, right? You have these very liberal DA's who are letting people go if they think that they're, you know, from a protected class or if they think they've experienced racism or they've experienced some sort of um, an unjust situation as a youth and they need a second chance and the system is racist and so you let them loose. But you've got people that, you know, like the guy that pushed someone in front of the train in New York City had been arrested over a dozen times, like, the fuck are you doing? And there's some kind of crazy statistic, particularly about New York City,

• 31:08Joe Rogan?

  that something like 50% of all the crimes are by a very small number of people.

• 31:13Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 31:14Joe Rogan?

  A very small number of repeat people. And if those people were in jail, literally crime, you could half violent crime, half robberies, half, 50%.

• 31:23Speaker 02

  It's crazy. I, I uh, saw some people doing analysis of like the kind of content in news we were getting in 2015. By people that I watched and liked, like the Vlog Brothers and stuff on YouTube, where everything was about the prison industrial complex, which I'm not saying is not a thing. It's certainly, there's definitely issues for sure. But it was about how, you know, uh, we, we have the highest prison population and stuff. And again, these aren't untrue things, but it started putting out all this unchallenged information about how we are too critical in this country and too punishing. And then what you started to see after that was the politicians like the DA here, the DA in San Francisco, coming around the 2020s stuff after the George Floyd situation and everything,

• 32:07Speaker 02

  where all of a sudden it was beyond soft on crime, like beyond where they could do any amount of property damage that they wanted in San Francisco and just. No challenges. So the DA in Chicago that raised, I think, the theft for felony threshold from like fifty dollars to five hundred dollars or something. It was something crazy. So all that information-

• 32:29Joe Rogan?

  I think it was nine hundred dollars.

• 32:30Speaker 02

  Crazy. All that information that we were all consuming was just unchallenged. And all you had was like a boomer on Fox News just yelling. That was like the only challenge to that kind of information that was coming around 2015. And I was a fan of that information. I ate it alive. And then, now we're facing the consequences of it.

• 32:51Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 32:52Speaker 02

  It's kind of crazy.

• 32:53Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's also you find out that there's, there's sort of a dark element to it all. And there's people like George Soros and the Open Society Foundation. And what they do is they, they invest their money in politicians. They invest their money in DAs. And they get like the most liberal, the most, you know, progressive, the one who's gonna do the most damage to the city in terms of crime. And then, he funds the next guy to compete against him, who's further left. And they just go further and further and further, until you've got people like, the guy they got rid of in Los Angeles, that, you know, was just-

• 33:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 33:30Joe Rogan?

  Violent crimes. This guy pulled a knife on a sheriff. He was trying to attack a sheriff with a knife. And then, they let him out. And then, he hacked up some guy with his kids with a fucking machete in Malibu, or in Santa Monica, wherever it was. It's like, you hear these stories, and you're like, this is fucking insane. When someone's a violent criminal, and they commit violent crimes, they need to go to jail. And if you don't do that, you're gonna encourage people to do violent crimes. So, why are these prosecutors doing this? Why are these DAs doing this? Are they doing it because they want to? Do they want society to fail? Well, some of them do. Some of them actually do. They would like our civilization to fall. They think America is evil.

• 34:11Speaker 02

  Interesting. That's interesting.

• 34:13Joe Rogan?

  Elon's deep into it, man. I've had conversations with him about it and he explains the way Soros does it and that's actually, it's a great investment because like to invest in politicians in terms of like to spend money on a campaign for the president, it's a lot of money. Spend money on a campaign for becoming the governor, that's a lot of money. But a local DA, not that much money. And for a great return on your investment, you can fucking tank a city by having one insane DA. Like who was the guy in LA they got rid of? Was it Garza? Was that what his name? This guy was fucking out there. I mean, he was releasing all kinds of crazy criminals. And you're like, why would you do that? And there was a video, there

• 34:55Joe Rogan?

  was a podcast that I was listening to where there was a former gang leader who was leaving Los Angeles because he was saying it's getting too dangerous and they're about to release thousands of people from prison because the prisons are overcrowded. So they're releasing thousands and thousands of violent offenders and he was sounding the alarm for it, for a gang leader. He's like, uh, this is too hot. We gotta get out of here. This episode is brought to you by ZipRecruiter. Believe it or not, the holiday season is here again and that means you might need to fill some seasonal roles, fast. Maybe you need extra cashiers or stalkers, or maybe something more unique like a lead elf, or an expert gift wrapper, or a Zamboni driver. Whoever you're looking for, whatever skills

• 35:39Joe Rogan?

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• 36:23Joe Rogan?

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• 37:06Joe Rogan?

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• 37:20Speaker 02

  That's, that's the primary reason I'm against the things like all the funding for the, the train in California specifically because I actually really like, I'm a big advocate for public infrastructure and even like dense living. Like I love when you visit a place that is like dense and really cool, lots of community. I love that. We can't do that because we have these people that just let the violent criminals out. They let people hop fares in San Francisco and smoke meth on the train. I want trains. I want, so I wish Austin had an incredible subway system. We can't if we keep letting out these horrible people that'll be everywhere. These people with mental health issues that we won't put in a place that is more humane than letting them sleep on the street.

• 38:05Speaker 02

  We'll let them crash at the, anytime, me and my girl, we drive past a, a bus stop and we're just like, we, we would never ride a bus here.

• 38:14Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 38:15Speaker 02

  Because just every, I, I've seen people light up a meth pipe on South Lamar at a bus stop and there's just people that are just sleeping there and you can't even wait for a bus. I want these nice things. We can have these nice things, but we can't if we just let people overrun them.

• 38:32Joe Rogan?

  So what do you think if you had to put on your tinfoil hat and really? Trying to make an assessment of like, why this is happening? Like, why are they allowing this? Why hasn't no one done what is the sensible thing? Protect the peaceful, taxpaying, kind and compassionate people of the city from violent criminals? Why are you allowing these people to continually be released? Why are you so soft on crime? Like, what are you doing?

• 39:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, honestly, definitely not as deep as Musk is on this. But for me, I really think it's this political capture. When you get in those ecosystems now, online, you can get on TikTok and it'll immediately figure out within three minutes what group to put you in, and then you hear no other perspective.

• 39:22Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 39:22Speaker 02

  And we know young generations, especially young women, they've moved more politically extreme than any other generation in the history of the United States. And they've moved to the left, you know, left, right, I don't care. But they've moved to the extreme version. And when you're politically captured, you then vote for the people that are more politically captured on that left. And there is a lot of that moral masturbation that comes with it. It sounds good. We had all that information around 2015, 2020, that any one that's going to prison is, you know, just for having weed or anything like that, we're just evil as a society.

• 40:01Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 40:01Speaker 02

  And when you get that and you start moral masturbating about everything, it sounds right. Like, things like rent control, it sounds good. It sounds like the moral thing to do. Not letting many, not just putting people in prison for a long time, sounds nice, sounds nice. Not kicking people off the street when they're homeless, it sounds nice. Not doing those sweeps, it sounds nice.

• 40:22Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 40:22Speaker 02

  And people that are politically captured online, especially in our algorithms, this is so brutal. And they just vote for that on repeat because they hear no alternative perspective. And even still, it's so politically captured now where it's like, if you disagree with 1%, you're a Nazi and you're, you know, get out of here. You're not one of us.

• 40:41Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 40:41Speaker 02

  It's pretty brutal. I always considered myself, like, pretty left of center, actually. I'm probably more centrist now. Economically, I've moved a little to the right over the past few years, but... But compared to the people surrounding me in college that were definitely like far left, because you know, music school and all that stuff, but they were still algorithmically captured, I was borderline like a Nazi because I just didn't agree with everything.

• 41:06Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 41:07Speaker 02

  You know, maybe the taxes shouldn't fund tits.

• 41:10Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 41:10Speaker 02

  I'm sorry if I'm a Nazi for that, like, we have too much bloat.

• 41:15Joe Rogan?

  I think you're absolutely correct about the political capture, but I think it's also manipulated, and that still doesn't account for who's funding the DA campaigns. And the fact that Soros does get involved in these kind of things, and not just him, but others as well.

• 41:28Speaker 02

  You think he truly believes in it, though? Like, this is the right thing, like, we have a prison issue.

• 41:34Joe Rogan?

  Uh, no, no, I don't think so. No, I think he banks on it. I think, I mean, he's, he's made money off of collapsing societies. Like, he's, he's of, of interesting character. He seems like completely immune to the consequences, like, spiritually of what he does.

• 41:51Speaker 02

  Fair enough. It's, it's a flaw of mine, I guess. I just assume the worst until I see the best. So I just, I-

• 41:56Joe Rogan?

  That's not a flaw. That's, you're a good person.

• 41:58Speaker 02

  Well, it's fucked me over a lot of times, but like, I mean, I, I just assume that even if I disagree with them politically, they think it actually has a positive outcome.

• 42:06Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 42:07Speaker 02

  I, I want to think that.

• 42:09Joe Rogan?

  I used to. I think now more they want to pretend that they, they think it's going to have a positive outcome because it justifies what they're doing. And then it also, I think with politicians, it's really a self-serving thing. They just know that people are politically captured, so they say the things that the politi- like, listen, Gavin Newsom in any other world could easily be a Republican, okay? If we were living in the 1990s, he might have been. Like, this is nonsense. Like, this, like, his perspectives on things is about personal gain. It's about his campaign and his image, and that's why when he addresses any of the issues with California, he always goes into this pre-planned speech about, we're the biggest tech sector, we're number four in the world, and the world economy, starts moving his hands around. He's got a little fucking voodoo dance he does, because it's

• 42:54Joe Rogan?

  not really about addressing the situation. It's about framing it in a very positive way so that he looks good, so that he moves forward. And that's what he wants to do.

• 43:02Speaker 02

  And you're starting to see him come closer to center now, being opposed to the billionaire tax and other things like that in California.

• 43:10Joe Rogan?

  Well, because they're fucking leaving.

• 43:12Speaker 02

  They're leaving, but a lot of the, you know, everyone running for governor- On the left was okay with the billionaire tax, but since he's gonna be eyeing for president,

• 43:20Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 43:20Speaker 02

  He needs to be a little more sane and, I mean, pretty much every independent report says, yes, it'll capture tens of billions quickly, but it'll lose hundreds of billions over the long term because the wealth that you tax on a yearly basis is just leaving.

• 43:33Joe Rogan?

  It's not just that, it's a slippery slope. It's, it might start with billionaires. It'll work its way down. It'll work its way down to thousandaires.

• 43:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, taxes typically have.

• 43:42Joe Rogan?

  They always do. As soon as they, and also they have the ability to change the goalposts once the bill gets passed. The bill gets passed, they don't have to have you vote on who gets taxed more. And we can just decide. Like Bernie Sanders used to rally against, he used to rail against billionaires. It always used to be millionaires. All these millionaires, that's the problem. They're not paying their, and now it's billionaires. Why? Because Bernie's a millionaire now. It's adorable. It's adorable in its transparency. But like, these fucking kids don't understand. Like, there's a giant number of kids today that come out of the university system that think that communism is the solution.

• 44:21Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 44:22Joe Rogan?

  Genuinely believe in it.

• 44:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's scary.

• 44:25Joe Rogan?

  Because you're literally saying, first of all, how does that get enforced? How do you think it gets enforced? How does it work? Who tells the people that they have to give up their money and their property?

• 44:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 44:36Joe Rogan?

  The fucking government. Then who's holding the military and the property? The government. Oh, so the people with the guns? Oh, so you want a military dictatorship essentially to be able to control all the finances? Who owns a home? Who owns a farm? Where the food comes from? You think that's a good idea?

• 44:52Speaker 02

  It's never worked. I don't know why they're for it.

• 44:54Joe Rogan?

  Ever. There's not even a mildly decent version of it out there. They can go, well, they're not as good as us, but it's not, not, they're too bad.

• 45:03Speaker 02

  I'll give them some credit. I'll give them a little, a little bit of grace. Uh, sure, I think they're a little retarded, but I'll give them some grace. A lot of times when you ask them, those people that come out of college, what communism is, they think it's like Scandinavia.

• 45:16Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 45:16Speaker 02

  And socialism, that's how they define it, not like very literal, and those aren't socialist countries anyway. All their programs are funded on capitalism, it's taxed through the income that's earned on capitalism. So, I'll give them that grace, but no, it is true that many people are viewing communism in general as more favorable.

• 45:34Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 45:35Speaker 02

  And we know college is also very politically captured. It's very politically captured.

• 45:40Joe Rogan?

  That's the danger. The danger is children are getting a very distorted perception of what the reality of the world is, like right out of school by people who don't live in the world. That's what's so fucked, like these people that are teaching, they've essentially gone from being a student to working in a university, to being a professor, that's their entire life. And they're telling you about the outside world. They're literally prisoners who are telling you about things that are going on in places where they never go and never visit. Like, you're not living in the real world. Like, your concepts about socialism and communism that you're teaching these kids, like, you don't live in the real world.

• 46:21Joe Rogan?

  You didn't start a business, you don't, you don't get fired by one company and hired by another, and you're trying to build your own small business, you're not doing that.

• 46:30Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 46:30Joe Rogan?

  You're just teaching concepts and ideas which most people that have done those things, that have jobs, that have started businesses, think are fucking ridiculous, and don't work, and have never worked anywhere in human history, and yet that's how you're employed to shape young minds. That's crazy.

• 46:49Speaker 02

  They've looked at some universities and they look at the political identification, or doing pollings on different departments, and they've had like sociology departments where it's, uh, like 300 Democrats and one registered Republican. But again, I don't think there's anything wrong with having a left-wing position or viewpoint. I'm not saying that at all, again, I agree with a lot on the left. But when, when something where you're spending four years has that ratio, it's gonna get overwhelming. I mean, in terms of the information you get without any alternative perspective.

• 47:22Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 47:23Speaker 02

  I actually, I, I was in college again in music school and this was the amount of just craziness that I was around. Even though I'm slight, you know, have those left-wing social positions, I'm vehemently against that woke shit. Because when I was there, we had a visiting professor talking about music. She played a piece of music and she was like, "Okay, give me your feedback. I just want honest feedback on this." And I was, you know, I didn't really like it. And I was like, you know, to me, I can't really describe it, but it's a little weird. Then I had to listen to a 10-minute lecture about how the word weird has been used for colonialism and slavery and imprisoning people and murdering people of color and people who have transitioned and stuff. Cause I said the word weird.

• 48:07Speaker 02

  It's politically captured. And there wasn't, no one would speak up against that. No one would speak up against that. I don't know if there are other normal people around me, other professors that didn't believe what she was saying, but no one was willing to, because you'd be ostracized.

• 48:20Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 48:20Speaker 02

  You'd be fucked. You're, you wouldn't have friends there.

• 48:23Joe Rogan?

  Exactly.

• 48:24Speaker 02

  So when, when the ratio is something like 500 to 1 in certain departments, you're never gonna get an alternative viewpoint. So it makes sense that it gets more extreme. It doesn't even have to be 50/50, but 500 to 1 is crazy. 200 to 1 is crazy, even 50 to 1.

• 48:39Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, for sure. Well, it's something. You need to have alternative perspectives from respected people. They, they need to be able to communicate with each other. That's what the real diversity is all about. It's not just like where your fucking ancestors came from. It's also diversity of thought. And which is crazy that the people that are really into diversity reject completely diversity of thought. This idea that no one who is more to the right of you could possibly have a point is insane. Now, I'm with you socially. I'm very liberal. Um, financially, I, I agree with you. I'm more, I tend to swing more to the right. Because I believe in human nature. My problem with the concept of socialism, it goes against human nature. People.

• 49:23Joe Rogan?

  If you're gonna punish people who are ambitious and reward people who are not, that's not good. That's just not good for human nature. It rewards laziness. It rewards people that feel entitled. It rewards this idea that the government, that they should pay, that these rich people should pay because they've done well. Well, why aren't you doing well is a question that doesn't get asked to these people.

• 49:47Speaker 02

  Well, the question of taxes is getting completely turned on its head anyway. I've never been opposed to paying more in taxes if it went to something good.

• 49:55Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 49:55Speaker 02

  But people are no longer proposing it to go to good things when you see it advocated online. Now it's that person has a lot of money, let's take some.

• 50:02Joe Rogan?

  Well, yes, exactly. And it's also very abstract, like they should pay their fair share. Shouldn't we figure out where the fucking money's going first? When you have thousands and thousands of NGOs, you have all these billions moving around in very mysterious ways, you're not concerned with that, but instead you want to take money from this guy who's got this giant penthouse, like that Ken Griffin thing, where Mamdani's standing in front of it like, look, this guy has a $250 million, you're doxing his fucking house.

• 50:32Speaker 02

  Crazy, which is stupid because now he's just gonna take all the wealth from New York and go down to Miami.

• 50:36Joe Rogan?

  I know, but it's a weird thing where some of these, you know, Democrat socialist mayors, they don't seem to think that that's a problem. Like that lady in Seattle is like, well, if they leave, goodbye.

• 50:48Speaker 02

  Okay, I actually like Mamdani as a person. I really dislike the lady in Seattle as a person. She seems like a bad person, just laughing at people leaving, laughing at wealth leaving, laughing at jobs leaving. They're not even leaving Washington, they're going to Bellevue. They're going across the river where Microsoft and everyone's building new campuses. They're living in Seattle and she's laughing at it? They have the second highest downtown office vacancy in the country and she's laughing at it. That's not a good person.

• 51:18Joe Rogan?

  Well, she's also never had a job, which is crazy. Imagine your first job, you're the head of a fucking city.

• 51:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 51:28Speaker 02

  Well, then you end up with that and now people are leaving and...

• 51:31Joe Rogan?

  The Mamdani thing is also interesting because one of the things he said recently is that if they have bad landlords, they might take the house. Have you seen that?

• 51:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 51:40Joe Rogan?

  Which is like, okay, communism, you're, you're gonna capture real estate. You know, the, the farm is spending too, it's too much money for a tomato, we're gonna take over the farm. Like, this is North Korea, this is how it started. Give us your farm, we'll feed everybody. Oh, great.

• 51:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'd love to see that survive the courts, but it's, it's, it's a crazy idea that, or even there. And of course, those, those bad landlords that we're talking about, they're usually like rent controlled units where they can't bring in enough money to even maintain the units.

• 52:10Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 52:10Speaker 02

  So then the units fall, I mean, the, the percentage of units, I don't know, you can look up the exact number, but that are just sitting empty because there's not enough money to put into them, just to bring them up to date, is crazy. This is the most populated city in the country, people need places to live. And we have a system right now where people can't even bring units to rent up to date for people to live in. So there's like 10% of rent controlled units or something that are, or not rent controlled, but, uh, but it's brutal. It's an absolute brutal system, it's performative in the end.

• 52:41Joe Rogan?

  There's also this weird thing that goes on in New York City with really expensive apartments where people buy them and never live in them, because it's just a place to put your money.

• 52:49Speaker 02

  Which we do too, we do that overseas in Europe.

• 52:52Joe Rogan?

  Oh, do we?

• 52:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, American billion, I mean billionaires all over the world do that. Cause real estate's just a good protective asset, it's a good way to preserve. But no, I mean, it makes sense, and places like Texas have banned people from China doing that. Um, but I, it makes sense from a wealth preservation standpoint, but it's shitty for the residents of the city. So, I mean, I think, I think it'd be fair for them to outlaw that, if they wanted to. Kevin O'Leary's counter perspective though, have you heard his?

• 53:18Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 53:18Speaker 02

  So on that, and I don't know if I agree with it, but it's worth considering, is that, okay, but they're there, they buy it, they don't go there, so they're not using any public services.

• 53:26Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 53:27Speaker 02

  But they pay the property taxes into the public services, so they're just a net contributor.

• 53:31Joe Rogan?

  That does make sense.

• 53:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, but it is also a place that someone could live that no one is living, so.

• 53:35Joe Rogan?

  Right, but you were, when you're talking about these hundred million dollar apartments, like the Ken Griffins bought, like, guess what, you're never gonna live there.

• 53:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, and they wouldn't have built it if they couldn't sell it to people like him anyway.

• 53:45Joe Rogan?

  Exactly, that's the whole reason why they invested in the property in the first place.

• 53:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 53:49Joe Rogan?

  There's that one that I was looking at, um, they built this kooky fucking tower that's like a popsicle stick, have you ever seen that one? And it's waving in the wind now, and it makes weird noises and no one wants to live in it.

• 54:00Speaker 02

  Uh huh, I think some glass falls from it too, right? Yeah, I think so. The one right off Central Park.

• 54:06Joe Rogan?

  Glass falls? I don't know.

• 54:08Speaker 02

  It's happened a few times.

• 54:09Joe Rogan?

  I don't know. I watched a video on it. The video was essentially talking about like the engineering that was involved in making sure this thing anchors to the ground. And you would think you have to worry about this big thing that's really, and you would worry about sinking, right? Well, actually, they worry about it lifting, because the wind is slowly rocking it back and forth, so it's fucking coming out of the ground.

• 54:30Speaker 02

  And then the people just buy there and not even live there. Wealth preservation. So it works.

• 54:34Joe Rogan?

  Well, I don't think, I think they're having a hard time selling spots, because I think people were probably, I would look at that, I'd go, I'm not gonna be able to sell this.

• 54:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 54:42Joe Rogan?

  Like, so if you do buy into it, you might be stuck with it.

• 54:45Speaker 02

  No, absolutely. I'm, again, down to pay more in taxes, but like you said, there is the fear of like, where's the money going? Well, it scares me. I want to have Mr. Marco Rubio, if he ever sees this and runs for president, on my show. The Pentagon hasn't passed an audit in years. Even that alone.

• 55:03Joe Rogan?

  They're working on it.

• 55:04Speaker 02

  They're working on it for years, for going up to a decade.

• 55:06Joe Rogan?

  They've never passed a budget. Never passed an audit.

• 55:10Speaker 02

  It's crazy. Like, that alone. I mean, that alone. And I know military is still, it's, what is it, 10 to 20% of the federal budget, so it's a smaller percentage, but the fastest growing category of the federal budget is interest payments on our debt. That's the fastest growing category in the federal budget. If that's the case, why are we allowing the Pentagon to not pass an audit? We're gonna raise defense spending to a trillion dollars a year, but it can't pass an audit? I want good defense. I want broad defense. I want a lot of benefits for our soldiers.

• 55:40Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 55:40Speaker 02

  It has to pass an audit.

• 55:43Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Well, this is the thing. I mean, exactly what we're talking about. Like, we're in favor of paying taxes. It'd be great if everything was nice, the schools were great, the streets were clean. But when you know that there's so much waste, and there's so much fraud, and then all they're saying is, we need to make people pay their share. To pay it to where? Where's it going? Who's benefiting from it? You know, when you, when you see the, like, the $24 billion that was spent on the homeless in California, it's like, you don't have any knowledge of where that money went? You can't audit it?

• 56:17Joe Rogan?

  This is bananas. That's so much fucking money and not only has it not been effective, it's been the opposite of effective. The homelessness increased during that time.

• 56:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 56:27Joe Rogan?

  So you spent all that money and more people are homeless now than when you started.

• 56:30Speaker 02

  It's performative. It sounds good. It sounds good. It's all performative.

• 56:35Joe Rogan?

  It's also jobs. It's jobs. There's so many people that have jobs in nonprofits and they make an extraordinary amount of money.

• 56:41Speaker 02

  Well, that's why they should look to Houston. Instead of nonprofits, it's one central city-run organization and they've actually decreased homelessness.

• 56:50Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 56:50Speaker 02

  With like a 10% of the budget per homeless person than LA. But LA has all the network for every little corner of the homeless services. It's a network of different nonprofits and organizations. So it doesn't work. The city program, one central city program, did it in Houston and it's actually been working.

• 57:09Joe Rogan?

  How do they do it? What are they doing differently?

• 57:11Speaker 02

  Well, instead of these different organizations that all have these different incentives to maintain the jobs, like you said, and not even report certain data, this is a city organization actually held responsible by the people, by the voters, by the city council. This is one place where the money goes. It's not these endless nonprofit jobs. The incentives are just misaligned across the board.

• 57:36Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. It's, it's interesting that there are examples of cities that have done it well. And Austin had a real problem in 2020 and they did a great job in cleaning it up a little bit, but it's a small city, you know, relatively.

• 57:51Speaker 02

  Still pretty rough downtown, though.

• 57:53Joe Rogan?

  It gets rough. Listen, man, I have a club on Sixth Street.

• 57:55Speaker 02

  I know. I go there all the time and I almost get shanked. It's scary.

• 58:00Joe Rogan?

  It's wild. I think, though, that once you get in, it's kind of exciting, like, woo, we made it. Adds to the show.

• 58:06Speaker 02

  I was in a, I put my parents in a hotel. We went to the rooftop patio and it overlooked the alley right behind Sixth Street. I don't, I don't know if it was the other side of the road or not, but the alleys are scary.

• 58:16Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 58:17Speaker 02

  It's brutal. It, it looks something out of like a Batman movie from the 90s or 80s.

• 58:22Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 58:22Speaker 02

  I can't believe it's actually allowed. And it's not, and they say- It's sympathetic. They say it's sympathetic and nice to a, I don't know how that's considered any more nice than any kind of. I gosh, force rehabilitation seems brutal, but the mental health places.

• 58:38Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 58:38Speaker 02

  I know they weren't great before Reagan tanked that.

• 58:41Joe Rogan?

  It's better than a fucking alley.

• 58:42Speaker 02

  Exactly. It's better than an alley.

• 58:44Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. It's better than an alley. And this is the other weird thing about Sixth Street is that Sixth Street is like this booming. Like bars and music and comedy. It's crazy and it's loud and everybody's drinking. One block over is a homeless shelter.

• 58:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 59:00Joe Rogan?

  So you got all these people that are drug addicts and trying to stay clean. Drink or like, that's the other thing. You can't do drugs and stay there. So people will just surround it. They surround the outside area and they have their tents laid out there. Not anymore. They kind of pulled the tents up, but you see those people there all the time. But imagine you're trying to stay clean and you're a block away from madness.

• 59:20Speaker 02

  It's crazy.

• 59:21Joe Rogan?

  It's the dumbest place to put them. Put them in the fucking country. Like you see squirrels and hear birds chirp. Why are you putting them right there?

• 59:27Speaker 02

  That's where I park when I go to a show. When I go to a show at the mothership, I park right next to the ark. It's scary. It's apocalyptic. It really is. Even the police station just right down the street. They surround that as well.

• 59:40Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 59:40Speaker 02

  And we just a lot, it's a police station and they're doing drugs.

• 59:43Joe Rogan?

  Fucking nuts. It's nuts. Well, they're trying to do some things with Sixth Street and one of the things they're doing, they're investing a lot of money and trying to open up. High end places and restaurants and businesses, but you know, it's gonna be a slow slog.

• 59:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 59:56Joe Rogan?

  Try to clean it up.

• 59:57Speaker 02

  I mean, I'm sympathetic. They act, the people do need help. But when, when homelessness is like. Mi- at minimum twenty-five percent, this is reported from polling done via homeless people, so can't a hundred percent trust it, but twenty-five percent mental health issues. Like what are you gonna do? You're just gonna let them forever be wherever they want and do whatever they want, endanger themselves and others? There's a dude constantly wielding a machete down there. That's always just twirling it. When I had friends visiting, other big podcasters, I took them down. Uh, downtown, the first thing I saw in Sixth Street was a guy spinning a machete. It's like, we're just allowing that? That's the sympathetic thing to do. That doesn't make any sense to me. Twenty-five percent forever.

• 1:00:37Joe Rogan?

  That's a very low number.

• 1:00:39Speaker 02

  Yes, I think so, but.

• 1:00:41Joe Rogan?

  Being very kind by saying twenty-five percent, I would say it's probably eighty. There, listen, if you, if you, just by definition, if you're a drug addict, you have a mental health problem. Just by definition, you're in a, you have an addiction, that's a mental health issue. You know, there's a physical aspect to it, but there's clearly a mental aspect to it. It sucks. It sucks that, you know, there's, there's so many competing philosophies on how to make a society run correctly, and a lot of them just completely ignore reality. And we deal with the consequences of it. And then you have people saying, oh, the billionaires aren't paying their fair share, that's what's wrong. Like, that's not what's wrong. What's wrong is you have a completely captured government.

• 1:01:22Joe Rogan?

  And there's also this weird aspect to it where there's people that are working for nonprofits to make things better that don't make anything better. They don't do a good job at all because they're not beholden to all the pressures that you would have if you were an independent business. If you were an actual private business that was assigned a task of cleaning up the homeless issue, you wouldn't make any money if you didn't do a good job. You would lose your business. Like, if you had, if homelessness, cleaning up the homelessness was an actual business, and you started a private business to clean up the homeless, and you got all this money, nobody would invest in your company. Your, your company would fall apart. You, it wouldn't work.

• 1:02:05Joe Rogan?

  But because it's a nonprofit, you could have a seven-hundred-thousand-dollar-a-year salary and do a fucking terrible job and have no fear whatsoever of being unemployed.

• 1:02:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly. And another difference between Houston and LA, uh, that I forgot to mention earlier, I mean, a part of it is the cost of labor, cost of housing, but a, uh, a place, a shelter, or a room to put a homeless person that is starting to get clean in Houston costs a few hundred thousand dollars. It costs a million or more in California. That's just, you can't compete against that.

• 1:02:37Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:38Speaker 02

  It's impossible. Now, oftentimes, that's California's own fault. There, there are laws and permitting issues and red tape and environmental codes. Are crazy for building and the labor unions that they use for their building contracts are very, they like to extort. So there's a lot of issues there. Houston's able to build it on the cheap, which means more people are able to get in housing. But California is very set on the housing first, which again is the moral thing. It sounds moral and it really started to take off a couple of decades ago where, okay, let's get someone into housing first and then try to get them clean because no one's going to get clean than housing. But Houston's been trying to, and Texas cities have been trying to do the opposite and it's been working where we try to get people clean first and then get into that housing and

• 1:03:23Speaker 02

  get their lives set up. Because people have been going into these places in LA that are multimillions of dollars and trashing it. And they get like lore and stories off of them. Like a dude that was like building like chairs or something and then burned down his apartment in LA. He was named like Chair Guy. Like everyone knew him. It's just crazy that we allow that. People that are not getting the help and support they need because it's housing first because it sounds good. But it hasn't been working. And I don't know why. I don't know. It's the political capture again. I don't know why we're willing to do something for five, 10, 15 years, see it doesn't work and then just say we have to keep doing it and put more money towards it.

• 1:04:02Joe Rogan?

  Well, I think again, what you're saying earlier about social media and these echo chambers is really important because in their world, this is the only thing to do. And that all just gets this feedback loop where it's the right thing to do, the only thing to do. And they come up with reasons why it's not working and then call everybody Nazis.

• 1:04:20Speaker 02

  Yeah. And that's why also those echo chambers are why when polled, younger people are more okay with violence against people on the other side of the political aisle from them, which is a very scary place to go.

• 1:04:32Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:32Speaker 02

  It's very scary, especially when I see death threats all the time in my inbox and, you know, doxing and shit like that. They call me a fascist for saying, don't spend more money than you make. Okay, so I'm a fascist. Now I'm afraid for my life and I have to get security and all this stuff. It's crazy.

• 1:04:46Joe Rogan?

  So you get threats for, like, what specifically do they get upset at? It's literally just saying, don't spend your money?

• 1:04:53Speaker 02

  It's everything. They don't like that I do roasts. Consensual, consensual roasts. Like I call a fat bitch, a fat bitch.

• 1:05:01Speaker 02

  But I had the conversation with her before, and if she didn't want me to, I wouldn't have done that, because we have a no-no list where people get to say what they don't want us to talk about, and then I just won't talk about that.

• 1:05:12Joe Rogan?

  That's very nice of you.

• 1:05:13Speaker 02

  It is very nice, but that's because we try to run, you know, a moral consensual show, all that good stuff, but I love to roast people and just call out their features and just dumb shit like that, so people get offended by that, offended on behalf of someone who's not offended in the first place, and then they get very angry. I got a death threat on Twitter yesterday for saying Americans spend too much money on cars. He said I should, that it's crazy that Caleb Hammer is still breathing air, and that he should come up from San Antonio and kill me or something, I don't remember, or something like that. It's kind of crazy, because Americans spend too much money on cars.

• 1:05:46Joe Rogan?

  Maybe he sells cars.

• 1:05:48Speaker 02

  Maybe, but objectively, we do.

• 1:05:50Joe Rogan?

  Did you check his profile? Is it a real person?

• 1:05:53Speaker 02

  It said San Antonio, that's all I know. That's all I know, I'm sure it was like a...

• 1:05:58Joe Rogan?

  Could be a bot.

• 1:05:59Speaker 02

  Second profile. He was responding to it, he was excited, you know, he got his attention.

• 1:06:04Joe Rogan?

  Could be a crazy person.

• 1:06:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:06:05Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:06Speaker 02

  And we get emails all the time, no, people think I'm evil because they say I don't talk about the issues that led us here in the first place, but it's a personal responsibility show, because more people have agency than they're willing to acknowledge. We're in the highest disposable income society in the history of human existence. Not everything's perfect, cost of housing's gone up, cost of school's gone up, cost of healthcare's gone up, we can acknowledge those realities, but people have agency. People have agency. The amount of going out to eat among the Generation Z is insane compared to any other generation, and not only that, but now for 25% of their going out to eat multiple times

• 1:06:47Speaker 02

  a week is getting food delivered, and that has a 90% markup, 90%. And then they're complaining that they can't afford to pretty much do anything, get a nice apartment or whatnot, but if we're spending like $1,000 a month, which is very normal for a person on my show, going out to eat, you're right, you can't get an apartment of your dreams when $1,000 a month is going to McDonald's and other places. Cooking at home's become... Like a burden, become a victim complex now. Well, actually, that was another thing that triggered the internet. I kind of agreed with Kevin O'Leary when it said, oh, young people are broke because they spent $28 going out to eat. Well, it's not that specifically only, but it's the death of a small, of a thousand cuts.

• 1:07:31Speaker 02

  And yes, just $28 three times a week becomes an actual halfway decent retirement fund. If you put it in the S and P 500 for a few times a week. That does put off future goals that you have. And the internet went crazy against me. They hated me for suggesting that, that they shouldn't be able to. They're like, well, how do we eat groceries, meal prep, meal plan? This is what everyone's done since forever. We live in the best period ever for humans. Best period ever. Our jobs are better. Everything's better. Even when you think of like buying the starter home in the 50s and wherever, you know, they were like the size of this room that we're in right now. Mass produced.

• 1:08:11Speaker 02

  Okay, that's still a home that's great you could buy, but you were going to a job that you hated, that you're sweating, that had no AC where you're working with your hands all day. And it was miserable. They didn't like the jobs. They liked that they had a good paying job. But now people go to the office and they think they're a victim for not being able to meal prep before going to the office, the AC'd office. Like, it's hard for me to sympathize with that, especially when I film three of them a week. All 100% real people, mostly Gen Z and millennials, who are absolute victims in everything. They, they are victims in everything. They think, they think if they don't get a 2027 brand new car instead of a 2025 car, that they're going to die. That all of a sudden cars two years ago were the most dangerous things.

• 1:08:56Speaker 02

  They have to get a 60 to 70,000 hour car loan at a 20% interest rate, or else their kids will die.

• 1:09:02Joe Rogan?

  You've actually had that conversation?

• 1:09:03Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:09:04Joe Rogan?

  Will they think that they're gonna die?

• 1:09:06Speaker 02

  No, because the, because the, the excuses they use is that I wanted a safe car for my kids. That's fine. But it's the insinuation that 2024, 2023, 2022 cars with literally.

• 1:09:21Speaker 02

  Go on the highway and blow up. Like, I don't understand. They insist if they don't get a brand-new car, that it is not a safe car. That is an argument every time with Americans. The 1.6 trillion dollars, or 1.5 trillion dollars in car loan debt.

• 1:09:35Joe Rogan?

  So do you think that's just a lack of education? Because, like, a car from 2020 is just as safe as a car from 2026. There's no difference.

• 1:09:42Speaker 02

  Absolutely.

• 1:09:43Joe Rogan?

  There's no difference in airbags, no difference in anti-lock brakes. There's very few differences in any of the technology involved. In fact, I would, I tell people, especially people that want a nice car, one of the best investments you can get is get an electric car that's about two years old. The, like, electric Porsches and electric Audis in particular, fucking nobody wants them, man. Nobody wants the used ones. And they're still great.

• 1:10:07Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:10:08Joe Rogan?

  And like, okay, let's look up an Audi e-tron. Look up a 2023 Audi e-tron. How much does it cost now to buy, and what was it new? I think it's, like, less than 50%. So there's certain cars where you buy them and they're worth as much a couple of years later, like a nice BMW or a Porsche. Like, you could get an M5, a BMW M5, and then sell it a year or two later and lose very little money, if any. You get a fucking electric car and you try to sell that bitch in a couple of years, like an electric Porsche? Okay, look at this. 2022 Audi e-tron, $25,000.

• 1:10:50Joe Rogan?

  2023 Audi e-tron, $27,000. Do you know how fucking crazy that is? That is a 2023 amazing car. Those cars are fucking incredible. It's a technological tour de force. They're fast as shit. It's all-wheel drive. It's an SUV. A premium plus Quattro, $27,000.

• 1:11:17Joe Rogan?

  It only has thirty seven thousand miles on it. Those things don't have engines, like a combustion engine. They don't have nearly the kind of maintenance that a regular car does. You don't have to change the oil. You just plug that bitch in. You have a fucking amazing car. The battery range is not the longest.

• 1:11:34Speaker 02

  That's the excuse they use.

• 1:11:35Joe Rogan?

  Twenty, two hundred and twenty-six miles is plenty for you to get to work and get home.

• 1:11:41Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 1:11:41Joe Rogan?

  And go out there and you can plug that bitch in. I have a Tesla and it has like, it's a Model S. What does the Model S have? Three, four?

• 1:11:50Speaker 04

  I can understand this though, this argument that this person might not have anywhere than to charge it.

• 1:11:55Joe Rogan?

  That's an issue.

• 1:11:56Speaker 02

  That's so easy to get in your house now.

• 1:11:58Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:58Speaker 02

  But if you live in an apartment, that's totally fair.

• 1:12:01Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and if you go to one of those charging stations, you're very vulnerable. If I was a chick, I'd never get an electric car. If I didn't have a house.

• 1:12:08Speaker 04

  You have to do it every single day.

• 1:12:09Joe Rogan?

  Every day.

• 1:12:09Speaker 02

  Fair enough.

• 1:12:10Speaker 04

  Gas station once every ten days or something.

• 1:12:12Joe Rogan?

  And like, how long does it take to charge up one of those bitches?

• 1:12:15Speaker 04

  Thirty to forty-five minutes.

• 1:12:17Joe Rogan?

  So you'd have to thirty, forty minutes every day. Uh, yeah.

• 1:12:21Speaker 02

  That's fair enough.

• 1:12:21Joe Rogan?

  That's fair. But you're getting a fucking bitchin' car for twenty-seven grand.

• 1:12:26Speaker 02

  And more car, more apartment complexes are installing those charging stations anyway, that you can just leave your car in overnight.

• 1:12:32Speaker 04

  I live in one and you can never actually get to the thing.

• 1:12:35Joe Rogan?

  Why is it? Because someone's always in there?

• 1:12:37Speaker 04

  And they never move their fucking car.

• 1:12:38Joe Rogan?

  Oh, they keep it plugged in.

• 1:12:40Speaker 04

  And I don't know who's it is. You can't go call them and, yeah.

• 1:12:42Joe Rogan?

  Flatten their tires. Don't do that. I'm just kidding.

• 1:12:43Speaker 02

  But I tried to think of options, right? Because there's even the options of the place you work might have one. Right outside my building, there's, uh, where we film is multiple car charging places. Park in, you go to work. So I'm not saying everyone can do it, but.

• 1:12:58Joe Rogan?

  If you can do it, it's a great option.

• 1:13:00Speaker 02

  But even so, you can get used, used gas cars for relatively similar.

• 1:13:03Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:13:03Speaker 02

  But they will defend to the death on my show, having to get a sixty thousand dollar, large SUV at an insane interest rate for an eight-year loan. Eight-year term. Crazy. But, no, you asked me why are they doing it? It's American, baby. That's American. That's freedom. You need a car to get to your job and you need a job to get to your car. And our culture is built around the house and car. You're a failure if you don't get a house. You're a failure if you don't get a car.

• 1:13:31Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:32Speaker 02

  It is American as it gets.

• 1:13:34Joe Rogan?

  That is true. And it is true that people want a new one. They want a new one. They want, that's part of the status of owning a vehicle. You want to be able to say it's twenty twenty-six.

• 1:13:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:13:43Joe Rogan?

  Look at us, these new features.

• 1:13:45Speaker 02

  It's fun.

• 1:13:46Joe Rogan?

  Apple CarPlay.

• 1:13:46Speaker 02

  And people actually care what the person next to them thinks at the stoplight, for some reason. I don't know why.

• 1:13:51Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's a weird one. It's a weird one, but we do. And we especially do when we're not doing that well. So you want like every single sign that shows that you're doing well. You know, a nice watch, a nice this, a nice that, a bag, whatever it is. Whatever it is that you need like a reward for this job that sucks.

• 1:14:10Speaker 02

  Now, oftentimes, the poorest people I know are the ones that have the more souped up, nicer cars.

• 1:14:15Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:16Speaker 02

  And then they have a shitty place to live. But they prioritize that because it's a wealth symbol. It looks good.

• 1:14:21Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:21Speaker 02

  They get the expensive clothes, the flashy items.

• 1:14:23Joe Rogan?

  That is true, but if you have money, a car is one of the few things that you put money into that you actually enjoy. You actually feel it when you're driving around it every day. It's exciting. It's fun.

• 1:14:34Speaker 02

  I just got my Model X. It goes fast, so I'm happy.

• 1:14:36Joe Rogan?

  Those are great.

• 1:14:37Speaker 02

  That's it.

• 1:14:38Joe Rogan?

  They stopped making them.

• 1:14:39Speaker 02

  I know, it's really sad.

• 1:14:40Joe Rogan?

  They stopped making the S2.

• 1:14:41Speaker 02

  I was actually sad that day.

• 1:14:43Joe Rogan?

  Me too.

• 1:14:43Speaker 02

  That was a weird thing to get sad about, but I was actually sad that day.

• 1:14:46Joe Rogan?

  Also, I was sad because I knew it was the rise of the robots. Because they're using it to make these fucking Optimus Prime robots and they're gonna be flooding the streets everywhere.

• 1:14:54Speaker 02

  Yeah. I honestly think the Model X is one of the best cars ever made.

• 1:14:58Joe Rogan?

  It's a phenomenal car. It dances. Tiffany Haddish has one, and she was in the parking lot of the Comedy Store, and the wings go up, you know, and it starts dancing. It moves around. I'm like, this is crazy. Like, it actually moves to music.

• 1:15:10Speaker 02

  Now that I have one of the last ones ever made, I honestly... Fuck, man. I really don't know. I don't want another car. It's actually really sad.

• 1:15:18Joe Rogan?

  Well, he told me, Elon told me it's super over-engineered. He's like, the car's incredible. It's like one of the safest cars you could ever drive.

• 1:15:26Speaker 02

  Well, I guess it's the last one I'll ever get. It's a bummer.

• 1:15:30Joe Rogan?

  So, when you are explaining to these people that a car that's just a few years old is just as good as a car that's now...

• 1:15:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:15:39Joe Rogan?

  Does anybody go, eh, you're right? Or is it like a natural inclination? Like, is this just this thing that they want, a status symbol that's in their head that they need at 2026? This episode is brought to you by ShipStation. Black Friday is madness if you're shopping, but if you're the person trying to get... All those orders out the door, that's a whole different kind of crazy. That's where ShipStation comes in. It's an end to end order fulfillment platform that brings all your orders into one place. So when volume spikes, your team isn't scrambling to keep up. More than 1 million businesses have used ShipStation to get through peak season, scaling fulfillment up to 40 times while cutting costs up to 30%.

• 1:16:21Joe Rogan?

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• 1:17:02Joe Rogan?

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• 1:17:26Speaker 02

  People are very defensive on the show. I can convince them of smaller things. Getting rid of a car in our culture is usually a big thing to overcome. But I'll see weeks later that they sat on it, they thought about it. Then the video went uploaded and millions of people shit all over them in the comments and they're like, okay, you know, maybe I should get rid of this car. So some, some people actually, many people do change their perspective on cars. But that's a hard one to overcome. Telling them to close a credit card is kind of easy. Car is a big one. I've told people to not get a house and they're really close to getting a house. That's something they will not give up because that's another obsession that we have in our country.

• 1:18:05Joe Rogan?

  So would you say not get a house today because of interest rates?

• 1:18:08Speaker 02

  Not just interest rates, um, the overall marketplace, S and P 500, it just beats real estate. Commercial real estate is good to get for tax advantages, but the American dream isn't owning a home anymore. It's the freedom of renting because you can live wherever you want. You can move for a job like that. Getting a house, you're stuck in a house. It requires a massive amount of money for a down payment. And it's just a lack of flexibility in a generation, in age where people want to be more flexible and travel and explore and take new jobs everywhere. But it also just doesn't make sense as an investment anymore. It doesn't. It, it used to be the defining trade of the middle class and one of the largest wealth creating things for the middle class.

• 1:18:48Speaker 02

  But now with the incredible stock market that we've had over the past 50 years or so, it beats it every time. If you rent and just put in your money into the stock market instead of that down payment on a house or the little extra for a mortgage, you'll win every time. And then you get stuck. Let's say you got the good interest rate. Everyone with a good interest rate is stuck right now because they're not willing to trade up for a house they actually want, but with a higher interest rate. So homes become like these people's prisons. You can buy a home. That's great. If you know you're going to stay somewhere and it's what you've ever always wanted, there's nothing wrong with doing it, but it is not that actually incredible financial thing that has defined America.

• 1:19:31Speaker 02

  That being said, Americans suck at investing. So if the only way for you to invest is put your house in a, uh, put your money in a house that you literally cannot touch, maybe it makes sense. Because if instead you need to put an extra 20% to the market if you rent, but Americans just want to go spend that on a vacation, then maybe you're better off in a house because you need that forced investing.

• 1:19:51Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Well, a lot of people don't feel, uh, they don't feel secure unless they own the home. They don't feel like settled. This is not really my place. I'm just renting it.

• 1:20:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, which is true, but I mean, I just tell them to fuck off. That's your feelings. I mean, that is just their feelings.

• 1:20:07Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:20:07Speaker 02

  Like, I don't know. Math is math in the end. Like I own, but that's because it was very affordable for me and made sense for me. Um, but it doesn't have to for everyone.

• 1:20:17Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:20:18Speaker 02

  And that's okay. In renting, you don't have to do maintenance. You don't have to get a new roof. You don't have to, you know, deal with the AC going out and all this stuff. If you're renting for especially even like larger corporations, they're actually even better to rent for than a mom and pa. Because they'll have someone on standby that'll fix your shit overnight. Or a mom and pa landlord, you know, it kind of sucks. It might take a couple of weeks.

• 1:20:35Joe Rogan?

  Right. If they're not good.

• 1:20:37Speaker 02

  Um, yeah.

• 1:20:38Joe Rogan?

  What, what do you think when you're talking to these young people that are talking about their future? What do you think about what's happening with AI? And the potential for AI to displace jobs and

• 1:20:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:20:49Joe Rogan?

  These people that are investing their future and going to school and getting this job that might not even exist.

• 1:20:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, totally fair. Uh, it's a big fear. So I, I'm going to start this part by saying, I don't 100% want to listen to anyone that says they know what's going to happen. Cause how can, there's the doom and gloom that says everyone's job's going to go away. And then there's those that say it's going to create a shit ton of new jobs. I don't listen to any of them. No one knows what's on the other side of the hill of AI. But we do know AI is coming. So there is the best things to prepare for it. Trades, very smart. They've been smart for a while, but they're very smart with AI. Cause it's probably not coming for an electrician job. Probably not. Degrees in general, what degree you get in school

• 1:21:36Speaker 02

  has been one of the largest and most consequential decisions that people have been messing up for the past few years. And it's actually one of the leading causes for that, uh, gender wealth divide that is always talked about. When compared for the same job, same person, same experience, which is never compared in that study. Uh, it's actually a 99% very similar. But what we see oftentimes, and I feel, I feel bad for, uh, uh, the, the women my age with this is statistically them. They've gone and got lower paying degrees and now degrees that are very susceptible to AI, which is going to be very damaging for a large group of people that are going to push them to become even more radical.

• 1:22:20Speaker 02

  But women have gone and borrowed a lot more money for degrees that provide a lot less return on investment like sociology, psychology, the arts, things like that, where you can't maybe even get a job, you're going to be a barista, or if you are going to get a job, it's usually a lower paying job, where men have gone, we've fallen, this thing in our society where men have always tried to go to that higher income side and give up a job they like for it, so they'll go into engineering, the maths, the sciences, even if they don't like it, or the trades, very labor intensive. And even though AI, you know, they're susceptible to some things in tech there, it's always been higher paying and that's what's made that gender wealth gap so heavy.

• 1:23:05Speaker 02

  That and then women post birth is the second highest leading cause. But when it comes to AI, people are already making the mistakes in the degrees they've been getting over the last 10 years, and now this is just going to accelerate that even further. When it comes to data entry jobs, things that are super easy, even unfortunately, who knows if we'll allow for therapists, but it's getting there pretty quick. People are willing to trust AI way more than we thought in these psychology degrees and whatnot, writing degrees, things that unfortunately that large sector has gotten, it's, they're much more susceptible to AI and it's going to lead to, I think it's going to lead to a lot more political radicalization and that's what scares me more than anything.

• 1:23:48Speaker 02

  The, what's it, the UN, a reputable source said 40% of global jobs are susceptible to being replaced by AI. Now, the more developed countries were a little better, it's a little easier, but we're talking about those that are doing like customer service jobs in India and things like that, that's, you know, they're going to be damaged heavily. We're going to be a little better in Europe, in the United States, in Canada, Australia. But it's scary and people need to prepare themselves by trying to borrow.

• 1:24:20Speaker 02

  The least amount possible when they get their degree. Go to community college if they can. And go into something that's more AI resistant. Which to me is again, things like trades. Things that need that extra creative edge where AI doesn't seem to be able to get there yet. Maybe it'll be able to at some point right now. They're really good at going through numbers and stuff. But that true creative edge actually coming up with something new. Um, that's, that's what I think people should be going towards in college right now.

• 1:24:49Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I completely agree. Hold that thought. I have to take leak.

• 1:24:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, you're good.

• 1:24:52Joe Rogan?

  So one question that I have for you is because you got a degree that's not really a good degree financially.

• 1:24:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, well. But close, yeah.

• 1:25:00Joe Rogan?

  But going to school for something that's not viable financially. Why do you think, and particularly women, why do you think so many of them get these degrees in sociology? Get these degrees in gender studies, get these degrees in things that where you're, you're just not going to be able to make a living. And what you're going to school for?

• 1:25:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think you can do a lot of good in a lot of them. So if you're doing social work like that, there and nursing actually does pretty well. But in that a lower paid part of medical, you know, you're doing a lot of good. Um, we, we spent a lot of decades doing, trying to really fix the percentage of college. We were having like men, men, men, men, all, it was only men going to college. And we put a lot of effort into women going to college a bit more to catch up, which is fair. That was good. I am for that. But, once they got there, uh, just, uh, fuck. Why they're doing it? It's harder to say, but they definitely do more gravitate as a cohort

• 1:26:03Speaker 02

  towards those lower paying degrees like psychology and whatnot. And I don't know, men just go to the higher paying degrees. I don't know if it's something in our culture where men feel like they need to be a breadwinner or whatnot.

• 1:26:13Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's what I'm wondering if that's what it is. The need to be a provider and the thinking like these low paying jobs are not going to be able to give me any money.

• 1:26:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:26:22Joe Rogan?

  How am I going to provide? How am I going to have a family? How am I going to pay the bills?

• 1:26:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, but now men are, men are starting to kind of fall off that platform though.

• 1:26:31Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:32Speaker 02

  I don't know if you've been watching the trends, but now it's closer to like 60, 65% of new degree holders are women. And men are just not going to college anymore. Um, there, some of them are-

• 1:26:43Joe Rogan?

  Sixty-five percent, really?

• 1:26:44Speaker 02

  It's pretty crazy. It's like sixty or sixty-five percent.

• 1:26:47Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:26:48Speaker 02

  It's getting, it's getting pretty intense, and-

• 1:26:51Joe Rogan?

  Well, what are men doing instead?

• 1:26:53Speaker 02

  There's a lot of losers. There are a lot of losers, um, where they're not getting any education, they're not looking for any kind of job, they're not even collecting unemployment, they're literally just sitting on their ass. That is a big cohort of people right now, in men.

• 1:27:07Joe Rogan?

  What's causing that?

• 1:27:09Speaker 02

  Um, well, hmm, fuck. Uh, there is a lot of the red pill victim mentality. I don't know if I want to fully enable it, but, I mean, maybe there's some justification a little bit, but they think that everything's against them. Uh, they think that D E I specifically was preventing them from going to work, preventing them from going to school, that, uh, schools politically captured. There's a survey done that, of people that were choosing not to go to college, thirty percent said that it's because, thirty or forty percent said it was because college is becoming too politically captured. Um, so, there is that. Uh, then they don't have jobs, they don't have skills, they don't have experience, so it's harder to get a job.

• 1:27:51Speaker 02

  It's easier to just kinda sit at mom's home, play video games, do drugs.

• 1:27:57Joe Rogan?

  Jesus. That's bleak.

• 1:27:59Speaker 02

  It's bleak. And the gender wars are horrendous right now. I don't know if you see any of it online, but the gender wars are horrible.

• 1:28:05Joe Rogan?

  The gender wars.

• 1:28:06Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, young women just being so anti-men and young men being so anti-women and cheering against each other. It's horrible. It is horrible.

• 1:28:17Joe Rogan?

  Like uniquely new? Like, this is a-

• 1:28:20Speaker 02

  Much more than ever before.

• 1:28:22Joe Rogan?

  What do you think is causing that?

• 1:28:23Speaker 02

  Um, a lot of it started twenty sixteen election. They got, a lot of women got very angry that Trump was elected, and they followed something that happened in South Korea as well, where the women said, "No men, no dating, no sex." There was a term for it, but they were just, they cut off everything. And there was a little, little bit of that movement after the twenty sixteen election here in the United States as well, and then it gained as much traction, but- This is very divisive, and it goes back to the algorithm that we were talking about earlier as well. A lot of people get put in those echo chambers where you need to have a villain. And the men are the villain, or the women are the villain.

• 1:29:05Speaker 02

  The women are the reason men aren't doing well, the men are the reason women aren't doing well. The men have been holding us back forever. They've been, you know, keeping us in the kitchen and everything like that.

• 1:29:17Joe Rogan?

  The 4B movement, women boycotting men. Anti-men movement, 4B movement is a radical feminist rebellion that emerged around 2015. It's named after four Korean terms, starting with BI, meaning no. Bihon, no heterosexual marriage. Bicholsen, no childbirth. Beyone, no dating men. Bisekku, no sexual relations with men. Okay. Participants argue this is not about misogyny, but rather a drastic method to opt out of an intensely patriarchal society and protect themselves from gender-based violence, such as digital sex crimes, spy cams, and workplace discrimination.

• 1:30:01Speaker 02

  So it picked up some pretty big steam here in the United States after 2016 as well.

• 1:30:05Joe Rogan?

  But I gotta think that everyone who's saying no dating men and no sexual relationships with men isn't attractive.

• 1:30:13Speaker 02

  Probably not, but sexlessness among young people is so high compared to any other generation right now.

• 1:30:19Joe Rogan?

  Very high, very high virgin rate, which is really odd. We're finding a lot of, and a lot of them like identify as Christian, and that's the reason why they're saying, or Catholic, is the reason why they're saying they're virgin. And I'm like, what's happening? You don't get horny? What are you doing?

• 1:30:32Speaker 02

  That's interesting.

• 1:30:33Joe Rogan?

  You don't like people?

• 1:30:35Speaker 02

  I've had a lot of people on my show say they want to have sex but can't have sex. So I guess they haven't used that cope, the religious cope, but I don't know. But that's another example of the radicalization, so. Um, they just, they blame each other, like, okay, Trump got elected. Many of the women in this country that lean to the left didn't like it, so they got very upset. They blamed the men for electing him. Uh, men blame women, you know, DEI policies, which, yeah, there are things to complain about. I do get it, like, on both sides, probably, but they've just gone so extreme. So there's a gender war right now, where it's just trying to nuke the other side and...

• 1:31:09Joe Rogan?

  Is this spill over into real life as much? Or is this a lot of people that spend way too much time on the internet already?

• 1:31:15Speaker 02

  Definitely more that than anything. Definitely more of that, but, um, the unfortunate real-life consequences, uh, lead to that loneliness online. Because the real-life consequence is that people are staying inside and on screens and more lonely than ever. So that's the real-life impact. You know, they're not going out and talking about the 4B movement on the corner of the street, but instead of going out like they used to and having more friends, they're sitting inside and complaining about it on Reddit. So that is the real-life consequences it becomes online.

• 1:31:46Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. It's just so strange that these people don't recognize that you have a finite time to exist and you're spending all your time, like, captured in these, like, fucking stupid echo chambers.

• 1:32:00Speaker 02

  Feels good to be a victim, though, because everyone online that is in your little ecosystem, they give you the thumbs up, they make you feel reassured.

• 1:32:08Joe Rogan?

  And complaining is exciting. People do love to complain.

• 1:32:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:32:12Joe Rogan?

  It excites you, it gets you going. Fucking, that fucking man, fucking man.

• 1:32:17Speaker 04

  Whether this is accurate, I think this gives a little insight into the Korean 4B movement. This is a post on Reddit from two years ago, but this paragraph here is...

• 1:32:28Joe Rogan?

  Oh, about Korea?

• 1:32:29Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:32:29Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, so we're talking about a country where a woman's career can be jeopardized for something as innocuous as wearing a T-shirt that reads "Girls don't need a prince" or for liking a Women's March post on Twitter, even if it was seven years ago. I'm not exaggerating, incidents like this have occurred and recently, as recently as last year, we're talking about literal termination of a contract due to a heart made on a post regarding women's safety issues on Twitter dating back to seven or more years ago due to incel gamers throwing a fit. So they have an incel problem in Korea, too. A lot of, and also low replacement rate, like...

• 1:33:04Speaker 02

  Worst in the world, yeah.

• 1:33:05Joe Rogan?

  Korea is really bad. Is it the worst?

• 1:33:08Speaker 02

  Worst in the world.

• 1:33:09Joe Rogan?

  Than Japan?

• 1:33:09Speaker 02

  Cultural collapse within a few decades, yeah. By the end of the century.

• 1:33:12Joe Rogan?

  Oy.

• 1:33:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, South Korea is done. But, no, it's true, and like I said, like, there, there are valid logics to it. I'm not saying like, uh, everyone's just doing it inherently to be evil.

• 1:33:25Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:33:25Speaker 02

  But if your outcome is to become radicalized into something like the 4B movement, no one should be fired from wearing a dress or like in a post.

• 1:33:32Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:33:33Speaker 02

  You know?

• 1:33:33Joe Rogan?

  It's crazy.

• 1:33:34Speaker 02

  But to become radicalized and start this thing where it divides the genders, because we have more political division in our low, in our, in the Gen Z gender than any other generation, more religious division. It's crazy. And to fuel that, because things have been not perfect.

• 1:33:50Joe Rogan?

  So when you say political division, so is it that young men are going to the right and young women are going to the left? Is that what it is?

• 1:33:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, when you do, when they've done tracking and polling of post-election results and who, how people have voted, age groups and gender groups, they've seen that men have moved to the right, uh, a, a little bit. Uh, but women dramatically since 2016 have moved to the, uh, pretty far left. Young women, not, not millennial or Gen X or boomer women especially, but, uh, Gen Z women have moved very far to the left.

• 1:34:24Joe Rogan?

  I wonder what changes, if anything, in that when women have children? Because one of the things that I've found is that my friends who wound up having children, my female friends, they, they almost all started moving to the right. They almost start all recognizing that there's like real safety issues, there's real crime issues, they're wondering where their tax money goes, they see corruption and fraud, things that they never really talked about at all when they were single and didn't have a child. But as soon as they get married, as soon as they have children, then they start going, hey, fuck this place. You know, they, they, like, so many of them wound up moving out of LA right after they had children. And so many of them started moving into a different sort of ideology.

• 1:35:07Speaker 02

  But people have to get married and have kids for that to happen. And we just hit our lowest birth rate in the United States.

• 1:35:13Joe Rogan?

  Is it the lowest ever replacement rate?

• 1:35:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, if I'm not mistaken, yeah. It was before, the last time we had actual replacement rate was before the Great Recession. And ever since then, this has gone off a cliff.

• 1:35:24Joe Rogan?

  That's why we need immigrants.

• 1:35:25Speaker 02

  Well, I mean, actually, yes. Well, we do need some immigration.

• 1:35:31Joe Rogan?

  Of course.

• 1:35:32Speaker 02

  Cause we need a growing population, cause you don't wanna be like, like South Korea or Japan.

• 1:35:37Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:35:37Speaker 02

  You can't have a collapsing population because you use the argument, not, sorry, not you, but people could use the argument, they'll destroy our culture if we let in all these immigrants. And yes, of course, that would happen if you just let anyone in, no matter what, uncontrolled. Sure. But you also, South Korea is also gonna lose their culture, cause their population will not exist by the end of the century. So there's multiple ways to lose a culture, but I'm a big proponent of selective, high-skilled, good proportional immigration. And I think, honestly, I think that's the more bipartisan issue. That's where like Bill Clinton was in the 90s and whatnot. So I think that's fair. Um, open borders is fucking crazy. I don't know what was going, I don't, I didn't even realize what was going on.

• 1:36:20Joe Rogan?

  It's nuts. I have friends that were down there, that went to the border and they say, you have to come to understand it. You have to see it. It's fucking insane. Like you see the numbers of people coming across, like, how is this real? And they just, no vetting, right into the country. Wee.

• 1:36:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:36:36Joe Rogan?

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• 1:37:20Joe Rogan?

  Takes a few minutes to sign up. Chime is a fintech, not a bank, banking services and Chime card, provided by Chime's bank partners. Terms and limits apply. Go to chime.com/disclosures for more details.

• 1:37:36Joe Rogan?

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• 1:38:19Joe Rogan?

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• 1:38:34Speaker 02

  So I'm on an economic issue because I always go back to economics. I don't get as fired up about the social stuff. But I do like some kind of immigration for sure. Some people are like completely anti-immigration. But I like some kind of immigration because we do need a growing job pool, specifically to maintain an economy so that people my age can retire. If the dependency ratio of every person not working for every working person is getting close to 1 for 1 in South Korea. In the United States, when we implemented social security, it was closer to like 60 to 1. Now, the United States is like, it's like 5 or 10 to 1. It's going in the wrong direction. And if for every one working person, you have one person not working,

• 1:39:19Speaker 02

  the whole system breaks. And that's what we're starting to see in places like South Korea. So we can't become that. So if people aren't fucking, people aren't making babies, you gotta bring some people in, but selective, high skilled. What gets scary is if you start fucking up an economy enough with really bad policies, you get brain drain and then immigration. So you see what happens in Italy, Spain, the United Kingdom.

• 1:39:42Joe Rogan?

  Brain drain.

• 1:39:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, educated people. They're born there typically, or they even immigrate there. And they become very educated. They're the ones that are going to contribute to the tax base, create jobs, do higher skilled jobs, great doctors, everything's like that.

• 1:40:00Speaker 02

  But they look around them, the economic policies have failed, so they come to the United States. And then, there's only the immigrants that have come in that aren't able to replace that brain because they come from somewhere where no fault of their own is just less educated. So they aren't able to contribute to that tax base. We're actually starting to see something similar in LA right now with the wealth flight and brain drain. Though the net migration in LA is not looking the absolute worst, people that were contributing there, moving away and providing to the tax base versus people that are coming in and aren't being true net contributors is becoming horrendous. And they're looking at like a billion dollar deficit coming up pretty soon for the city of LA.

• 1:40:44Speaker 02

  It becomes very scary. So that's why I rail against performative policies because I don't want to end up like a place like the UK, where it'd rank 51st out of all 50 states, by the way, in terms of GDP per capita, which is absolutely crazy, worse than Mississippi. You know, and then if you're having immigration while that's happening, all you have left is just that, just that. And all your high skilled people went somewhere else. Same thing's happening in Canada. They become educated in Canada and they go down to Silicon Valley for a high paying job because they don't pay as well in Canada. But if we start reversing that with bad policies, you start looking a little more like LA and their budget's not looking really good.

• 1:41:27Joe Rogan?

  It's interesting how pragmatic financial discussions are problematic. Like, people don't like it and they look at it and like, you're not talking really even about politics. You're just talking about pragmatic decisions in terms of like, how do you invest your money? How to save your money? How to do that? That becomes right wing.

• 1:41:46Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:41:46Joe Rogan?

  That becomes somehow or another cruel. It's like categorized in that way as heartless.

• 1:41:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, people will clip that last moment and say, I'm anti-immigrants. Like, that's gonna happen. But it's not. It's this literal economic theory that we're seeing in the real world right now that's tracked and trackable. The Labour Party acknowledges, the left wing Labour Party in the United Kingdom acknowledges the wealth flight and brain drain. This isn't a right wing position. This is just reality.

• 1:42:16Joe Rogan?

  It's interesting, though, that people, like, in general, don't think of it that way. People in general think of it like someone who discusses finances, someone who's like very financially astute, gives pragmatic advice, that's a conservative person, that's a bad person.

• 1:42:31Speaker 02

  They do think so. They say I'm right wing coded, is something I see a lot. White ring coded or my vibe is off. Because personal responsibility.

• 1:42:41Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but what do you think, why do you think personal responsibility is thought of that way? Is it because people cherish this idea that they're a victim and they hold on to it as part of their identity? And if you challenge that and say, no, some of this is your fault, then you're, you're being cruel, you're, you're being, you're a sociopath, you're a fascist.

• 1:43:03Speaker 02

  There's a large group of people that want people like me or Dave Ramsey to just give them a hug and then complain about the systemic issues that got there in there in the first place.

• 1:43:12Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:43:13Speaker 02

  You can vote. That's great. Go vote for a policy change, wonderful. But you do have a little bit of agency and I'm not going to talk to you about what policy you should vote for because that's going to require millions of people to overdo a system that you don't like. What you do have control on right now is whether or not you swipe the card somewhere, whether or not you get a high interest rate credit card or get a bullshit degree from a private institution out of state. You have those controls right now. And they don't like that. I, the, one of the biggest complaints that people like me and Dave Ramsey get is, why aren't you talking about the system that got you there? But that's not the conversation. It isn't. It's a one-on-one, personal financial conversation. Let those people fix their lives. Budget.

• 1:43:57Speaker 02

  Budget, that's why I made a budgeting app, Dollar Wise, by the way, is for that kind of thing.

• 1:44:01Joe Rogan?

  What is that?

• 1:44:02Speaker 02

  I, I made a budgeting app called Dollar Wise with my team.

• 1:44:04Joe Rogan?

  It's called Dollar Wise?

• 1:44:05Speaker 02

  Dollar.

• 1:44:06Joe Rogan?

  Dollar Wise.

• 1:44:07Speaker 02

  Yeah. So the average person can actually budget and take some personal responsibility instead of just falling on the victim mindset.

• 1:44:16Joe Rogan?

  So this app, what do you do? You, you put in your income, you put in your bills?

• 1:44:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. It's that automatic account connections through multiple different services. Uh, so you get your accounts connected and you get to immediate, uh, insights that show where your money's going. What you can do to actually improve your life and the steps you need to take it. It fully guides you in that process.

• 1:44:38Joe Rogan?

  So were you motivated to do this just based on these conversations you've had with people that don't know what the fuck to do?

• 1:44:43Speaker 02

  That and to make a shit ton of money, but both have worked pretty well. Um, but yes.

• 1:44:48Joe Rogan?

  Which is funny, you're making a shit ton of money by people that can't figure out how to save money.

• 1:44:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, but if hey, if they make more money because they save money and I make more money, that's capitalism.

• 1:44:56Joe Rogan?

  It's a value.

• 1:44:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:44:57Joe Rogan?

  You're providing a value.

• 1:44:58Speaker 02

  No, I mean, that's the point. Like I used, did you ever use Mint?

• 1:45:03Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 1:45:03Speaker 02

  You remember Mint? Okay, so it was a big budgeting app a long time ago, but for some reason, the service that bought it shut it down. And that's what everyone was using, but even then I remember stopped using it. Like many people, most people fall off of budgeting apps because they're just burdensome. It takes a long time to figure out the systems and they're just over engineered for the personal finance nerd that loves every little detail. So the average person doesn't do it. So we just built something simple that just shows people immediately where their money is going and what they need to do to change. So that's what we focused on when we, you know, engineered this thing.

• 1:45:36Joe Rogan?

  And so when you're having all these conversations with all these different people that have like these terrible budgets, doing a terrible job of taking care of themselves.

• 1:45:47Joe Rogan?

  Do you ever get this feeling like that you're not helping? Like this is like an insurmountable problem. You're sticking your finger in a dam and there's a fucking million leaks and this is, it's not gonna work?

• 1:45:58Speaker 02

  To a certain extent, yes. Luckily in the United States, we have some tools that help. So if someone's in that situation where the dam's about to burst, everything's about to just blow up, they can go through bankruptcy. But bankruptcy does not make sense, and this is what a lot of people mess up. Bankruptcy doesn't make sense unless you actually change the behavior that got you there in the first place. Because we've had people that have come on my show that have been through bankruptcy twice and now we're there again. It makes no sense. You can get rid of the dam. You can get rid of it by bankruptcy, but you're gonna build up that thing to explode again if you don't actually fix the behavior. So people take shortcuts through credit card consolidation, debt consolidation, personal loans, all that good stuff.

• 1:46:39Speaker 02

  Those are good tools, but if people don't actually fix their behavior first, they're gonna fuck it up. So. Uh, Dave Ramsey is vehemently against debt consolidation for a reason that is fair. I, I don't like being anti-something 100% because personal finances is personal. But this is his argument and it's kind of fair. You build up this much in credit card debt from here to here. And then you can consolidate it into this new debt. So this is one new debt that consolidated this down to zero. But now what happens is the credit card limit is still all the way up there. So people now have this debt and then without changing their behavior, they build the credit cards back to here. So now you have double the debt. That's the issue with debt consolidations and not changing the behavior. So his philosophy is correct.

• 1:47:22Speaker 02

  But what we try to teach people on my show is that change the behavior that got you in that first stack in the first, first place. And if you can prove that you can follow a budget for a few months, then you can take that shortcut by consolidating. And then probably just close those cards so you can't use them. But then the same thing applies for bankruptcy. So that's why our show's simple stuff. You just fix the spending. You get it under control. You'll live in even Elizabeth Warren's 50, 30, 20. She's the one that pioneered 50, 30, 20, which is 50% on needs, 30% on wants, 20% on savings. That's Elizabeth Warren's rule and she's relatively correct on that.

• 1:48:01Speaker 02

  Um, doesn't apply to everywhere like LA, New York, of course, but if you can follow that and prove you do it for a few months, then you can go through bankruptcy. You can use a personal loan and that solves the damn issue. It solves the bigger issue.

• 1:48:14Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, the, the changing your behavior thing is very hard for people.

• 1:48:18Speaker 02

  It is.

• 1:48:18Joe Rogan?

  And it's also very hard for people when that spending of the money is the only reward you get for a job you hate.

• 1:48:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, it is. And I'm the one talking to them and I'm a fat fuck. So like, I get it. Like I haven't, you know, fully taken control of my, uh, health behaviors and eating behaviors. So I, I know that it's hard to fix it, but oftentimes the people on my show, I've been in the exact same situation. I was when I was 20, 21 and I've seen what it's like on the other side. Just like many people in your position have seen what it's like on the health, the health on the other side. You know how good it is, so you want other people to do it. And since I've been through that personal finance side and gone through the work, I can at least help hold people's hands and show them

• 1:49:04Speaker 02

  what it's like to go to the other side of that tunnel, to put in the work, the temporary sacrifice of a few years, and really live the rest of your life in such a better way.

• 1:49:15Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's just changing behavior requires a change in perspective and it requires something. And for some people, they have to hit rock bottom, or they have to have some, you know, they have a birth of a child, like something rocks them into reality and they go, I, whatever the fuck I'm doing right now, it's not the right path. But it, it's just so hard for people when they're playing this blame game. And they're looking at successful wealthy people as being the pro, well get Jeff Bezos and his fucking yacht. Like that has nothing to do with you.

• 1:49:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:49:45Joe Rogan?

  It's not why you're broke. And you should look at him and go, how the fuck did he do that?

• 1:49:50Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:49:50Joe Rogan?

  How can I do that? I want a yacht, fuck it, let's go. But no one's doing that. They're, they're instead deciding that they're a victim, deciding that the, the game is rigged. Deciding that there's a cap on their ability. But, but meanwhile, this is, if there's any place on earth where you have the ability to rise from the bottom to the top, this is it. This is the spot. There's no place better. You could say it's not fair, but it, what does that mean? You'll, it's possible. Like you could do it, people have done it. You just have to figure it out. And like you have to spend less time playing video games, less time smoking weed, less time doing nonsense. And more time plotting your fucking future.

• 1:50:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:50:30Joe Rogan?

  Figure out what it is. I think there's also a problem in, a lot of people have something that they really want to do that they're not doing. And they, they're not pursuing that. And so then they're even more bitter because they're spending time doing this job that they hate, which sucks. They think it's taking away from their ability to do this other thing, which sucks. And then they come up with all sorts of rationalizations for why they're not doing it.

• 1:50:53Speaker 02

  Yeah. No, but what you said is a hundred percent correct, but let me, let me phrase it back.

• 1:50:59Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:50:59Speaker 02

  It's not fair, the world isn't fair. Now what?

• 1:51:03Joe Rogan?

  Right. It is what it is.

• 1:51:04Speaker 02

  Like it is, okay, so accept that. Well, are you gonna sit on it and cry? Like that's the only option, right? It's that or do something.

• 1:51:11Joe Rogan?

  But you're denying people's feelings, Caleb.

• 1:51:13Speaker 02

  I am.

• 1:51:14Joe Rogan?

  You're denying people's feelings and that's very right-coded.

• 1:51:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:51:18Joe Rogan?

  That is right. That's the argument, isn't it?

• 1:51:21Speaker 02

  It is. It is, like, I, I don't know, man.

• 1:51:25Joe Rogan?

  Write code is fun.

• 1:51:26Speaker 02

  If people just, if they're getting the bullshit degree and they borrowed a shit ton of money for it, that's not my fault. I didn't do that.

• 1:51:35Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:51:35Speaker 02

  The system Bezos didn't do that either. They say, well, sociology and stuff should pay more. Okay, the market's determined it didn't. So now what? You still get to choose what you do. What business you start. You might fail a thousand times. But you have so much more agency than people right now are willing to accept. And that's all I really care about telling people in the end. That's all. You have agency. Take some personal responsibility. You are not the disabled person that actually does not have agency.

• 1:52:02Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:52:02Speaker 02

  Cause there are people that don't.

• 1:52:04Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:52:04Speaker 02

  You're not that.

• 1:52:05Joe Rogan?

  Right. Yeah, it's so important to say. And I think, you know, as much as it's probably frustrating. You know, when I brought it up that you're putting your finger in this dam and there's a hundred holes.

• 1:52:16Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 1:52:17Joe Rogan?

  I really do think that you have a positive impact. Cause I really do think there's a lot of people. I mean, you get millions of views. There's a lot of people that are watching these conversations and it resonates. And they go, this is me. He's talking to me and he's right. Fuck, um, what do I do? And at least it puts them in this mindset that a change needs to take place.

• 1:52:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:52:39Joe Rogan?

  And then you give them tools. You give them, like you, you, you explain to them what the steps that they can take. You know, and that's. They're, the cra- the fucking crazy thing is they're not getting this from school. School's not teaching you how to organize your future, which is fucking a, a critical skill, a critical piece of knowledge. Uh, like having a, a, a path that you can actually follow.

• 1:53:02Speaker 02

  I think it's a, a lot of the time it's the, uh, student counselors there. Cause I remember being in school, in high school and the student counselor, I met with her once a year. And the only conversation is, what do you want to study in college? That was that, that's all they cared about. And it's fair for most people, college does still have like a 60% premium on those without a degree on average. But that's the only conversation and it is becoming less and less valuable as every year goes on. And if that's all school cares about, they don't care to even show you how to. Okay, I mean, full admission here, and I'm gonna look like the most beta pussy in the world, but I don't know how to do a fucking oil change. I don't. Why didn't school teach me that? Why? Why wasn't there any life skills?

• 1:53:45Speaker 02

  Now, I have the personal responsibility, I can go teach myself that right now, but I have a Tesla, so I don't need to. But, why wasn't there anything

• 1:53:53Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:53:54Speaker 02

  about actual life? The only thing there was to do was go to college, nothing else. That was the only conversation.

• 1:54:02Joe Rogan?

  When I went to high school, we had auto shop.

• 1:54:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:54:04Joe Rogan?

  So I did learn.

• 1:54:05Speaker 02

  I think they got rid of it the year before I went.

• 1:54:07Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 1:54:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:54:09Joe Rogan?

  Oh my god, when I went to high school, I went to Newton South High School, and there was this guy who ran the auto shop that was a Mustang enthusiast. That's what he loved, old Mustangs, and he would like fix them. And he would take his cars and teach kids how to fix his old Mustangs. He had like nineteen sixties, early sixties, like sixty-five, sixty-six, he liked the small Mustangs. He was a fucking very interesting guy.

• 1:54:34Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:54:34Joe Rogan?

  And he would explain to you, like, how spark plugs work, like, this is your carbureator, this is why it's jammed, this is, uh, you know, this is how the internal combustion engine works. He'd explain it to you, like, teach you things, teach you like general maintenance stuff on cars. And it was very valuable, teach you how to jack up a car, to like, how to do it safely, where's the jacking point, where's the lift points on the bottom of a frame?

• 1:54:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, and home ec classes, too.

• 1:54:59Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:54:59Speaker 02

  Used to be a big thing.

• 1:55:00Joe Rogan?

  Teach you how to cook.

• 1:55:01Speaker 02

  It's, it's falling away, and now, of course, now that we don't teach people how to cook, they're complaining about not eating out.

• 1:55:06Joe Rogan?

  So disappearance of traditional shop classes did not happen overnight, it happened in distinct phases. Seventies and eighties budget cuts. Major tax revolts such as California's Proposition thirteen in nineteen seventy-eight decimated public school budgets because maintaining workshops, buying heavy machinery, and securing liability insurance were expensive. Shop programs became easy targets for elimination. 1990s college prep push, high schools shifted their focus to standardized testing and four-year university preparation, marginalizing vocational training, which meanwhile, which is really crazy, what you're saying earlier today, or earlier on the show was very important, is like trades might be the only secure pathway. Becoming a carpenter, becoming an electrician, you know, heating and ventilation, like,

• 1:55:51Joe Rogan?

  people are gonna have to have those systems installed and maintained, and we're gonna need people for that. Like, that's, and that's a job, you start your own HVAC company, like, you can make some real fucking money.

• 1:56:03Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, absolutely, and even things like apprenticeships. If you get an apprenticeship, you have a 90% chance of being retained to a full-time position. Get into apprenticeships.

• 1:56:13Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:56:14Speaker 02

  Like, I, I know, just like, a little fat dude with some soft hands, but it's okay to do, you know, those are good jobs, they're good paying jobs, they're good career position jobs.

• 1:56:26Joe Rogan?

  They are, and if you want a good job, and it's also, it's like,

• 1:56:31Joe Rogan?

  there's a weird thing with degrees, like, degrees means your value as an intellect, as a, as a person who can think, you're, you're a smart person, you went to school and you got a degree, but if you have a degree and you're fucking poor, and, you know what I'm saying, and you're, you're depressed, and this guy is a tradesman, and he's wealthy, and he's making money, people with degrees still will look down at this, oh, he's a plumber? Well, fuck does he know about how this country works?

• 1:57:00Speaker 02

  And I'm sorry, some of the wealthiest people in our country that have built the largest companies are college dropouts.

• 1:57:05Joe Rogan?

  That's true.

• 1:57:05Speaker 02

  Like, I have, I, I can't just fully respect the college degree only, especially when you can get the most bullshit degrees now, and especially where the average GPA and passing tests have gone substantially higher because our standards are so much lower in universities now. It's pathetic, it's becoming harder and harder to respect a degree. There's good degrees, there really are, but it's getting harder and harder to disrespect it as a blanket statement. Yeah.

• 1:57:32Joe Rogan?

  No, you're absolutely making sense and it's also education is so readily available. If you want to educate yourself, there there's just YouTube alone. You could kind of learn anything. You can learn anything about anything and if you're really interested in actually doing the work and actually trying to absorb the information. You can get a high quality education without ever stepping into a university.

• 1:57:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:57:55Joe Rogan?

  Just with audiobooks, just with YouTube, just with, I mean, it's there's so much knowledge, much more than any other time in human history. So the idea that the only way to get an education is to go to these socially captured, these politically captured environments and be force fed this indoctrination of horse shit by communists who have never had a real job is and also be in debt. An insane amount of money because you're you're spending more money for that education than you're gonna spend on anything else when you're fucking eighteen years old. There's nothing even remotely close to a year and a university degree unless you're buying a new car every year.

• 1:58:37Joe Rogan?

  Like what the fuck are you spending that kind of like what is how much like let's what's Harvard a year right now? How much per year is Harvard? What is it fifty sixty?

• 1:58:47Speaker 02

  I don't know.

• 1:58:48Joe Rogan?

  Way more than that?

• 1:58:49Speaker 04

  Depends if you're in state and out of state too, but I don't think it's a state school.

• 1:58:53Speaker 02

  The student loan balances people borrow on average ranges from twenty five to forty thousand dollars for just an eighteen year old to sign away.

• 1:59:00Joe Rogan?

  Nuts.

• 1:59:00Speaker 02

  Well, through through their four year degree. It's crazy.

• 1:59:04Joe Rogan?

  It's crazy.

• 1:59:04Speaker 02

  And it's all administrative bloat now too.

• 1:59:06Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:59:07Speaker 02

  It's not even going to anything.

• 1:59:08Joe Rogan?

  Also subsidized, like the whole thing is gross.

• 1:59:10Speaker 04

  Sixty two for undergrads.

• 1:59:12Joe Rogan?

  Sixty two thousand dollars a year. What else are you spending sixty two thousand dollars a year on? Now imagine what's that Jimmy?

• 1:59:18Speaker 04

  It's without fees.

• 1:59:19Joe Rogan?

  Including housing, health fees and student services.

• 1:59:22Speaker 02

  I tell you.

• 1:59:23Joe Rogan?

  Eighty oh, including housing, health fees and student services coming to approximately eighty six to ninety five thousand dollars before financial aid. So with housing, health fees and human services, it could get to ninety five thousand dollars a year. That's fucking crazy. And if you go through that and you get a degree in gender studies.

• 1:59:44Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:59:44Joe Rogan?

  That's wild.

• 1:59:46Speaker 02

  Now for a fact, there's a sixty two thousand dollar car out there, but for a fact, they will not lend that car amount to an eighteen year old. I don't know why they would do it for a college degree.

• 1:59:56Joe Rogan?

  It is kinda nuts.

• 1:59:57Speaker 04

  New York Times nineteen eighty-three about, it's titled nineteen eighties grads, baby boom to job bust. This sounds a lot like right now, but it doesn't mention anything about debt or AI.

• 2:00:10Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, so more than nine hundred thousand of them in the nineteen eighties have discovered that they must put aside college daydreams and settle for jobs that do not require a degree if they want to work at all. So this was when?

• 2:00:22Speaker 04

  Nineteen eighty-three.

• 2:00:23Joe Rogan?

  Whoa.

• 2:00:25Speaker 04

  Yeah, they're all going in for jobs and none of the jobs that they want are available, so they have to, you know.

• 2:00:31Speaker 02

  They're getting bullshit degrees.

• 2:00:33Joe Rogan?

  It says, yeah, the Federal Bureau of Labor Statistics has long predicted that the number of college graduates would exceed the number of technical managerial and professional jobs available to them. A result in part of a decade and a half long influx of well-educated baby boom generation into the labor market.

• 2:00:51Joe Rogan?

  The problem is like, young kids, if you ask kids, the vast majority of them, what they want to do, I think, I know this is in California, they was like overwhelmingly they wanted to be famous.

• 2:01:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, we're in the world of influencers, it makes sense. Everyone's trying to be a TikToker.

• 2:01:09Joe Rogan?

  Well, everyone's also wanting to do what you're doing.

• 2:01:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:01:13Joe Rogan?

  You're an entertainer now. You're giving financial advice, but you're also an entertainer.

• 2:01:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's very cool and I wish everyone could do it. Most of us aren't lucky. I got lucky, I don't know. I mean, this is not a realistic thing, right? We gotta be realistic.

• 2:01:26Joe Rogan?

  But what does that mean? If someone can do it, you can do it. It's, the numbers aren't good in terms of like the amount of people that are gonna make it, but what are those factors that are keeping people from figuring out how to do it?

• 2:01:38Speaker 02

  Well, you know what, though? I wasn't, I wasn't fucking retarded about it. I had a full-time job and I only allowed myself to go full-time on this thing once I proved I had enough income to replace it for a few months consistent. Most people, they're like, let me just quit my job, borrow some money and start recording some videos. Like, you're a moron, you're gonna fail at that. I was strategic. If I didn't work, or if this didn't work for me, I would still have that job because I didn't quit that job.

• 2:02:05Joe Rogan?

  What were you doing?

• 2:02:05Speaker 02

  I was a product manager at a tech company.

• 2:02:08Joe Rogan?

  Did you hate it?

• 2:02:10Speaker 02

  Um, kind of. Actually, yeah, that's why I started applying for other jobs and a YouTuber almost hired me. Then he didn't, so I did it myself. This is kind of the path.

• 2:02:18Joe Rogan?

  So what was the job that you were gonna get hired for, the YouTuber?

• 2:02:23Speaker 02

  Uh, do you know Tyler Olivera?

• 2:02:24Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 2:02:25Speaker 02

  Oh, you've probably seen his clips. He runs around and like records like, oh, look at all these Indians in Frisco. That kind of stuff. Either way, uh, I was gonna be like a production manager for him. Good guy, but I just didn't get the job. So, yeah, but I wanted to be a YouTuber.

• 2:02:40Joe Rogan?

  So you decided I'm gonna just go and do it myself?

• 2:02:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, I just recorded a, uh, uh, ordered a bunch of equipment and set up something and started recording Financial Audit. Cause it was a show I wanted to see, but it didn't, it didn't exist yet, so I decided to make it myself.

• 2:02:55Joe Rogan?

  Really? So no background at all in entertainment at all? Nothing?

• 2:02:58Speaker 02

  No, I was like making stuff, like making music. That's why I went to college, making YouTube videos with friends in high school, but...

• 2:03:06Joe Rogan?

  In an ideal world, would you be making music?

• 2:03:09Speaker 02

  No, I'm way richer than...

• 2:03:12Joe Rogan?

  But is that what you like better than the actual music itself?

• 2:03:14Speaker 02

  No, this is so much more fun, cause it impacts more people's lives. It really does. Like, that's fucking cool. I, I mean, there, there's a lot of YouTubers, but being able to leave a legacy and actually say that you've helped tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of people actually fix their lives, that's actually something special.

• 2:03:32Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:03:33Speaker 02

  That's something special that not a lot of people get to say, so I, I don't want to give that up.

• 2:03:37Joe Rogan?

  That is cool, but do you still do music at all?

• 2:03:41Speaker 02

  Not really. It was like concert band composition, and I'll be honest, I don't think they would let me into the world because I'm right-wing coded. And I, like, I, it sounds like a joke, but it's actually real. Like, there, if you go on the music side of Facebook where they all are different band directors and different things like that, they're all very, very, uh, woke. Which is cool. I'm down, I'm down to hang out with them, grab a beer with them, but they, they kick you out.

• 2:04:09Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 2:04:10Speaker 02

  Yeah. It's pretty toxic, but... Um, no, I mean, for fun, I write a little on the side, but my passion is this thing.

• 2:04:17Joe Rogan?

  Do you perform music or you just write it?

• 2:04:19Speaker 02

  I used to play trombone, but it was mostly writing it. That was the passion. But my passion's building my business now. Like, I, I have forty people that work for me here in Austin. It's really cool.

• 2:04:29Joe Rogan?

  You have forty employees?

• 2:04:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, uh, we're doing a lot of different things. We have over a hundred thousand people to our paid membership on YouTube, so that's an entire business on its own. It's crazy huge.

• 2:04:41Joe Rogan?

  So what is the paid membership? What's the difference between the paid membership and the free membership?

• 2:04:45Speaker 02

  It's, uh, ten dollars a month and they get access to, we put on three premium shows that me and my production staff make daily. So we have a whole, almost like, network for them to consume behind the paywall.

• 2:04:57Joe Rogan?

  And what are these shows about?

• 2:04:58Speaker 02

  It's a, it's a variety of things. It's breaking down financial audit episodes. We have a show called Fat and Fatter, where me and one of my, uh, uh, talent people or whatever, we, uh, test food from different restaurants and rank them based on finances. They're all finance-based shows. So there's just these really cool, fun things that engage with the community and they, they love supporting it. So, uh, almost a hundred, ten thousand people a month subscribe to that, which is really cool.

• 2:05:24Joe Rogan?

  That's amazing.

• 2:05:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, and then the, the budgeting app Dollar Wise that we're building, financial audit, and then we have these personal services on our own website as well, so people can apply for personal loans and things like that. So, we're trying to really scale something, and that's much more of a passion than writing music ever was, so it's, it's much more fun.

• 2:05:43Joe Rogan?

  That's very interesting. So, so you're doing that, you got the Dollar Wise app, you have this YouTube thing where people can subscribe, so, but you seem like you've got some plans to build out and to take this even further.

• 2:05:56Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, we wanna scale this budgeting app, like, a lot. We wanna really make it one of the top dogs out there and really provide a value that isn't being met in the marketplace. Um, I'd love to build up some other YouTubers at some point. I, you know, we have figured out the algorithm, we figured out what people like and I wanna help other people that wanna create different finance content, because finance content is boring, like you said.

• 2:06:20Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:06:20Speaker 02

  And we found a way to make it interesting and entertaining. I'd love to help some other people launch their stuff. And then like the personal financial tools, similar to like what Ramsey has, Dave Ramsey, they have, they connect people with mortgages and stuff. We wanna make sure we can provide that, but in a way that isn't so limited and stringent to a strict ideology. So there's a lot in the market that's not being met that I really wanna build out.

• 2:06:43Joe Rogan?

  And for young people, like to have a resource like that, where there's someone who doesn't have a boring, stale sort of perspective that could teach you how to budget yourself and how to like, take your money and invest it, and then I'm sure there's a ton of online platforms that show you how to cook. That can show you how to shop, how to, what, you know, how I can save money by going to a grocery store and what's cost effective and getting your nutrition in, but also saving some money.

• 2:07:13Speaker 02

  Yeah. What's the question? I'm sorry.

• 2:07:16Joe Rogan?

  No, it's like, it's like, it's a beautiful time for young people if they access these things. I'm just saying that like for, for young people that are listening to you and like, I don't know what to do. Oh, you're right. Oh, I do spend, like, let me look at the amount of money I spend just getting DoorDash. Holy shit, that's, that's actually a large percentage of my check. And how much would it be if I just went to the grocery store once a week and I got all my food for the week? Jesus Christ, I'd save three hundred dollars.

• 2:07:44Speaker 02

  Here's the reality, you don't get to have fun if you don't have a fully funded emergency fund. That's a basic reality. Only sixty percent of Americans can cover a four hundred dollar emergency, meaning forty percent can't. That's four hundred dollars.

• 2:07:58Joe Rogan?

  So what do you, when you say emergency fund, like what do you consider an emergency fund?

• 2:08:01Speaker 02

  So there's a debate between three months to six months of everything you need to live for a month. I'm on that six month side because, you know, things like the pandemic and shutdowns, we're in that kind of world now. So we may as well go that full way, get a six month emergency fund that protects you in case of. layoffs or just losing money or a medical emergency, whatever it may be, you got a lifeline. But that's basic, like that is so critical to life for like a sick pet or a broken car. That if you don't have that, I don't want to see you in a drive through. That can't be acceptable. Going on a vacation is not acceptable if you can't protect you and your family at the basic level. I'll give you a little bit of grace if you're not fully investing. Okay.

• 2:08:44Speaker 02

  But this is like basic survival shit. It needs to be just as critical as having like a first aid kit in the house. Because it's that serious and that's what causes Americans to just fuck up their houses financially. An emergency happens, a layoff happens and they're not ready. It's scary and people are not ready.

• 2:09:02Joe Rogan?

  I know. It's like that. The problem is hearing that with young people. It's like, that's boring.

• 2:09:08Speaker 02

  It is. I know.

• 2:09:09Joe Rogan?

  They don't want to think that way. They just want to go have fun. They want to play video games. You want to go to the bar.

• 2:09:15Speaker 02

  Which is fair, but a six month emergency fund isn't that crazy. It's not saving millions for retirement. Do that, then have some fun. Get to three months, then have a little bit of fun while you're saving to six. Just that, or at least at a minimum, be able to cover your highest insurance deductible. Or like a one month emergency fund, have something. The fact that 40% don't have $400, set aside. Not for a rainy day, for an actual emergency is terrifying.

• 2:09:42Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. So now what are your thoughts on crypto?

• 2:09:46Speaker 02

  I like crypto. I have a small amount of Bitcoin in my portfolio. It's pretty good. 10% of Americans use it as an investment tool. So it's still pretty small for the overall American public. But I mean, I, I like it in general. Have we hit the full bubble and pullback? I wonder.

• 2:10:05Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's the crypto outside of Bitcoin gets very odd, like meme coins. And you know, I'm heavily invested in Melania coin. I don't know about you.

• 2:10:16Speaker 02

  No, not personally.

• 2:10:17Joe Rogan?

  Not kidding.

• 2:10:18Speaker 02

  Not in my portfolio.

• 2:10:19Joe Rogan?

  But there's like, things like that where like, what's going on? Like, who, who's putting their money into the Hoktua coin?

• 2:10:25Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 2:10:26Joe Rogan?

  You know what I mean? It's like, this is, it's a very weird gambling thing we're doing. It's like a legal pyramid scheme.

• 2:10:32Speaker 02

  Yes, exactly. And it's mostly just used by people for a get rich quick.

• 2:10:36Joe Rogan?

  Real quick.

• 2:10:37Speaker 02

  I don't even know if she made money.

• 2:10:39Joe Rogan?

  I think she got fucked. I think she got fucked, and her reputation got destroyed. Like, people hated her, they're angry at her afterwards and...

• 2:10:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, she gets like 5,000 views a video now, it's pretty brutal.

• 2:10:47Joe Rogan?

  I think she got sucked into this idea, you know, somehow or another that it was gonna be okay, like, the people that got sucked into the NFT thing. I mean, man, how many conversations did we have about NFTs? Where I was trying to get someone to explain it to me? Like, no one can explain this to me in a way that makes sense. Why, I can get that same picture and put it on my phone, and it's free. But you have that picture on your phone and you own it?

• 2:11:12Speaker 02

  Yeah. And then it died in six months.

• 2:11:14Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:11:15Speaker 02

  So...

• 2:11:15Joe Rogan?

  But that was one where it was like, what are they trying to sell? And how are so many people buying it?

• 2:11:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:11:22Joe Rogan?

  Where if you can't explain to me what you're selling, but yet, millions of dollars. I know a guy who made over a million dollars in art NFTs.

• 2:11:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, it's an actual thing. And I think what every single person that gets in every pump and dump thinks they're gonna do is get the pump, but not the dump. They think they're gonna be that exception. They're not gonna be. It's like day trading. Day trading's even better, and that's still only 85, or 15% win. Only 15% win day trading? Which is higher than you'd think, yeah.

• 2:11:53Joe Rogan?

  Wait a minute, so 85% lose at day trading?

• 2:11:56Speaker 02

  Yes, actual like, day trading, like, interday trading? It's brutal.

• 2:12:00Joe Rogan?

  Holy shit.

• 2:12:01Speaker 02

  Those pump and dumps are even worse. But everyone's a special little snowflake. They think they're gonna be the one. They're gonna beat the system.

• 2:12:08Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:12:09Speaker 02

  It doesn't work, but I think there's some good value in like Ethereum or Bitcoin. It's actually being utilized. Um.

• 2:12:16Joe Rogan?

  Isn't, aren't these meme coins also a good way to launder money?

• 2:12:20Speaker 02

  Oh, pro- well, launder, actually, that's interesting. I bet, I wouldn't be surprised.

• 2:12:24Joe Rogan?

  So certainly distribute money to people.

• 2:12:27Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 2:12:27Joe Rogan?

  Like if you made a Caleb coin.

• 2:12:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:12:29Joe Rogan?

  And I said, yeah, what do you think? I got an idea. Well, you and I collaborate, I'll finance your Caleb coin. And you dump out early and you get all this money from it. And fuck all these other people that thought they were gonna make money and they're not going to anyway. And now you've got that money and now we're gonna work together to do something else and.

• 2:12:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:12:48Joe Rogan?

  You know, it's a way to move money around in a way that's not directly financially compensating someone, but yet you are.

• 2:12:54Speaker 02

  And there's entire websites dedicated to the pump funds. I think it's like pump dot fun.

• 2:12:59Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 2:12:59Speaker 02

  Pump dot fund, something like that. You can make a coin, you can invest in coin. It's all for pumps. But they just, everyone thinks they're gonna be a part of the pump, not the dump. It's crazy.

• 2:13:09Joe Rogan?

  But it's, this is the Wild West of unregulated currency.

• 2:13:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:13:13Joe Rogan?

  And my fear is, uh, people are going to eventually wind up being stuck in a centralized digital currency. That the government controls. And it's attached to a social credit score system and, you know.

• 2:13:27Speaker 02

  Okay, that's scary.

• 2:13:29Joe Rogan?

  That's a scary thought.

• 2:13:30Speaker 02

  Further down a scary path.

• 2:13:31Joe Rogan?

  Well, people have actually proposed that, saying that we need this to compete with China. I've heard this.

• 2:13:36Speaker 02

  Really?

• 2:13:36Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I've heard this being proposed by politicians. It's quite terrifying. Because if they can turn your money off or on, if they have it, and turn your ability off or on to buy things. Whether you can buy plane tickets, or if you're not, if you're problematic, you've, you've done some things that. That's crazy. But that's where all this control goes to.

• 2:13:57Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 2:13:57Joe Rogan?

  It definitely goes to like, what's the best way to control people? Completely eliminate their ability to spend money.

• 2:14:03Speaker 02

  Well, we'll still let people smoke meth on the trains.

• 2:14:07Joe Rogan?

  You know, we have a racist system, Caleb, and a lot of these people have been victimized from the time they're young.

• 2:14:15Speaker 02

  True.

• 2:14:16Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. It's, you know, I've always said that if you want to make America great, really what you gotta do is have less losers. So figure out what's going on, like, why are there so many people that are homeless? Why are there so many people that are locked into these crime-infested neighborhoods and gang-infested neighborhoods? And this cycle completes itself over and over again, decade after decade, like, invest money in that. You want to make the world a better place? Fix all that. But there's no effort to do that whatsoever, and no politicians ever bring it up. It's never a discussion.

• 2:14:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, and it's good to set up incentives, incentives in the system as well. So California is moral on a lot of things with their social programs, but because a lot of their social programs and everything they've set up and safety nets, they're 49th in unemployment. Like, it's not great. The incentive isn't there for people to go out and-

• 2:15:06Joe Rogan?

  Is that really what they are, 49th?

• 2:15:07Speaker 02

  I think they were 50th until recently.

• 2:15:09Joe Rogan?

  Oh, God.

• 2:15:10Speaker 02

  Yeah. No, it's not great. But an incredible tech boom and whatnot, but when the incentives are, you know, easy to manipulate and take advantage of-

• 2:15:20Joe Rogan?

  What percentage of people in California are unemployed?

• 2:15:22Speaker 02

  I don't know.

• 2:15:23Joe Rogan?

  Let's find that out. Uh, it's 48 now.

• 2:15:27Speaker 02

  Forty-eight.

• 2:15:28Joe Rogan?

  Uh, California's moving on up. 5.3%. But that's also 5.3% of people that are actively looking for jobs.

• 2:15:35Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 2:15:36Joe Rogan?

  They drop off as soon as they stop looking for a job.

• 2:15:38Speaker 02

  Which many of the young men are not. They're not doing anything.

• 2:15:42Joe Rogan?

  And how are they making money?

• 2:15:44Speaker 02

  I don't know. Parents. I don't know. It's pretty pathetic, I'll be honest.

• 2:15:48Joe Rogan?

  Whew. You imagine if you're a fucking parent and you're in your 60s and your 40-year-old son is living at home with you?

• 2:15:56Speaker 02

  No, I was pulling up some nerd stats, uh, before coming on here, and I was reading through Bureau of Labor Statistics or Gallup poll that 40% of people aged 18 to 29 regularly receive help from family and relatives.

• 2:16:15Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 2:16:16Speaker 02

  Which is an incredible- Percentage of that age group. That's scary.

• 2:16:21Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:16:21Speaker 02

  Again, the incentive is like, I don't, I don't know. When I was eighteen, I'm not even that old, I'm thirty-one. But when I was eighteen, I was so excited to go out there and be independent and be on my own. That was everything. I was so excited to make my way in this world.

• 2:16:33Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:16:33Speaker 02

  I wouldn't wanna leech. I wouldn't wanna leech on any system. I'd wanna, but maybe that's why I'm successful. I don't know. Maybe I am.

• 2:16:41Joe Rogan?

  That definitely has a fact, is a part of it. It's a factor.

• 2:16:45Speaker 02

  But there's a lot of people that just do nothing and they're not looking for anything else and it's, I don't think we should, we should support those who need help. I'm for robust social safety systems, people that become unemployed, people that need help getting food on the table for the family. That stuff is important. But if we are enabling bad behavior, it doesn't work. And then we have a failed society because people aren't going and creating things. Luckily, we're not there yet, but I just don't wanna head there.

• 2:17:09Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and the recognition of human nature is not cruelty. It's just, you, you really can't help people all the time. They have to be able to help themselves and one of the best motivating factors for helping yourself is desperation.

• 2:17:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:17:23Joe Rogan?

  That, you know, people don't like to hear that, but that's, that's true. If you, if you bail people out every time, they're never gonna bail themselves out and that's just a fact.

• 2:17:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:17:31Joe Rogan?

  You know, this doesn't mean that like a family that's on hard times, that's down on their luck, shouldn't get social safety nets. Of course they should. That's a, a big part of a community. A community should help its vulnerable people. It's a part of it. But you also have to teach people how to not be vulnerable, you know? I think that, that, that's a great part of what you provide.

• 2:17:48Speaker 04

  How does this make any sense?

• 2:17:50Joe Rogan?

  What does it say?

• 2:17:51Speaker 04

  I just, I mean, it's a.

• 2:17:53Joe Rogan?

  California holds contrasting unemployment rankings depending on the metric. It ties for the highest unemployment rate in the nation, but places second overall for the best states to work due to strong wage policies and worker rights. But that's also probably why a lot of people are unemployed.

• 2:18:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, it means those that get a job have it great. I mean, same thing happens in places like France where they have aggressive unemployment. But if you get a job there with the vacation policies and worker rights, it's like the best thing in the world. It's incredible. Like, even in Poland, which is one of the more capitalistic countries in the EU, if you get fired, they still gotta let you work for them for a month or two.

• 2:18:30Joe Rogan?

  Oh, really?

• 2:18:31Speaker 02

  Yeah. Like, you have to let the employee you fired work for you for a couple of months, though. Like, it's pretty brutal, so...

• 2:18:38Joe Rogan?

  So they have to still show up?

• 2:18:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, they still have to show up.

• 2:18:40Joe Rogan?

  So, when you get fired, do you have a two-month grace period?

• 2:18:44Speaker 02

  Basically, basically.

• 2:18:45Joe Rogan?

  Wow, imagine how bad that guy's gonna perform when he has to get paid and he's there for two months and you have to deal with this disgruntled asshole kicking around the office?

• 2:18:55Speaker 02

  Yeah. So that's what I'm talking about when I'm talking about performative policies. It's nice, it sounds good. I don't morally disagree with most of anything California does. All I care about is outcomes. But politicians don't get elected based on outcomes. They get elected based on what sounds good in an election cycle. What they can promise, the performative things they promise. Outcomes are never tracked, they're not what matters. That outcome is 48th in unemployment. That's the actual outcome. You are a little anti-California when I see clips, and you didn't even know it was 48th. Like, that is crazy. Like, we should know that, but outcomes is not what's tracked here. We don't track that, it's not in our nature. It's not in the politicians' nature either.

• 2:19:37Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's just such a problem with people that finance and talking about money and talking about jobs is just not sexy. They just don't enjoy it.

• 2:19:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, for sure.

• 2:19:46Joe Rogan?

  You know, and it's part of the reason why so many people are on these bad paths, is that they don't have these thoughts in their head, they don't really understand. And I think that's one of the more important things about these conversations that you're having, is that people do need to hear what the consequences are for fucking up, what the consequences are, and that there's a path forward, that you can actually fix your fucking situation.

• 2:20:07Speaker 02

  Everyone, we are so lenient in this country with our bankruptcy protection laws, it's crazy. We are...

• 2:20:15Speaker 02

  If there is a place to escape a bad financial situation you're in, the United States is pretty damn good.

• 2:20:21Joe Rogan?

  Except for student loans.

• 2:20:22Speaker 02

  Except for student loans. 11% of current federal student loans are under default. That's the biggest of any kind of debt category in the country. It's bad. And people don't understand the consequences. And you know what's so stupid? This is what pisses me off, because I have people talk to me about it all the time. They say the student loan system is fucked, and relatively it is, but they get why wrong. They say this is too expensive, I can't pay it, and if I don't pay it, then they're gonna garnish my wages because of when it did default. Brother, Republican Donald Trump signed in the big beautiful bill, the repayment assistance program, which is different than the previous program, but that allows as little as 1% of your income, depending on your income situation, to qualify as the minimum monthly payment. 1%.

• 2:21:08Speaker 02

  You won't default. Do 1%. But they're complaining that it's too expensive, they're just not willing to look into the actual reality, and just say, "Hey, give me only repayment assistance program." They just want to be victims. Say it's all bad, it's all evil. It's not perfect. But they don't understand why. They complain about the wrong thing. What's wrong is we'll let you borrow whatever you want to get whatever bullshit degree at whatever college you want to go to. That's what's wrong. Every time we raise how much you can borrow for school, schools conveniently raise how much it costs to go to school. When it was cheap to go to school, when everyone's like, "Back in my day, it was cheap to go to school." It didn't... You couldn't borrow money to go to school. It's set in line.

• 2:21:51Joe Rogan?

  Right, right.

• 2:21:52Speaker 02

  Why wouldn't they charge more for administrative blow and creating, like southern schools have, I think in Alabama, frickin'

• 2:22:01Speaker 02

  lazy river on their campus. It's a recruitment tool. They do that. If you can borrow more money, they will charge more money.

• 2:22:09Joe Rogan?

  What does it say, Jimmy?

• 2:22:09Speaker 04

  You can technically get your student loans discharged via bankruptcy. There's just a few different ways to do it.

• 2:22:15Joe Rogan?

  But it's not automatic and takes extra steps and proof of undue hardship. Uh, what is that? How do they define undue hardship?

• 2:22:22Speaker 04

  Well, you gotta go to a judge.

• 2:22:24Joe Rogan?

  So like, maybe if you got paralyzed?

• 2:22:28Speaker 04

  Honestly, it's gonna be case by case, but I just, I've looked it up a couple times and you ca- it's not-

• 2:22:34Joe Rogan?

  It's just difficult.

• 2:22:35Speaker 04

  Yeah, it's just-

• 2:22:35Joe Rogan?

  It's just a-

• 2:22:36Speaker 04

  It's not impossible.

• 2:22:37Joe Rogan?

  A trudge.

• 2:22:37Speaker 02

  It's pretty rare, as far as I know.

• 2:22:39Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, as far as I know as well. Listen, Caleb, I think what you provide is very valuable. I really do.

• 2:22:44Speaker 02

  Thanks, sir.

• 2:22:44Joe Rogan?

  And I like, and then you've found like this new avenue where you're entertaining, but you're talking about finances and giving people like really good advice, like sound advice. And if you don't follow your advice, like people are gonna continue down the same fucking shitty road and their life will be ruined. And I, I think it's awesome that you do that. And it's awesome that you figured out a way to do it and make it entertaining and fun.

• 2:23:08Speaker 02

  Thank you, I appreciate that.

• 2:23:09Joe Rogan?

  So, my pleasure. Thank you, and thanks for being here. And, uh, one more time, your app, tell everybody-

• 2:23:14Speaker 02

  Dollar Wise. Download it on the App Store.

• 2:23:15Joe Rogan?

  Dollar Wise, from the App Store, Android as well, some of everything. And, uh, y- your YouTube channel is-

• 2:23:22Speaker 02

  Caleb Hammer.

• 2:23:23Joe Rogan?

  Just, straight up? And then Instagram, all that stuff?

• 2:23:25Speaker 02

  All that good stuff.

• 2:23:26Joe Rogan?

  All right. Thank you, sir. That's fine. Bye, everybody.