#2499 - Marcus King

Marcus King is the lead singer, guitarist, and founder of The Marcus King Band. His most recent album is “Darling Blue.” https://marcusking.komi.iowww.youtube.com/@RealMarcusKingwww.marcuskingofficial.com Perplexity: Download the app or ask Perplexity anything at https://pplx.ai/rogan. Get a free welcome kit with your first subscription of AG1 at https://drinkag1.com/joerogan onX Offroad: Try onX Offroad for 50% off- go to https://onXmaps.com/joerogan Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  The Joe Rogan Experience. Train my day, Joe Rogan Podcast, my night, all day.

• 0:14Joe Rogan?

  Good to see you, brother.

• 0:15Speaker 02

  It's crazy, man. It's crazy to be here.

• 0:17Joe Rogan?

  It's crazy to have you here, man, and thank you so much for the guitar. That's the dopest shit that anybody's ever given me.

• 0:22Speaker 02

  Oh, man, I hope you like it.

• 0:23Joe Rogan?

  I'm sure I like it, I just can't play. And I would love to learn how to play, but I know my brain, and I can't give my brain another thing to do.

• 0:31Speaker 02

  You've got a lot.

• 0:32Joe Rogan?

  Well, the problem is I get obsessed with things.

• 0:34Speaker 02

  Me, too.

• 0:35Joe Rogan?

  I'm sure. You can't get as good as you got without getting obsessed.

• 0:39Speaker 02

  Are you like this, like, I don't like doing things I'm not good at?

• 0:43Joe Rogan?

  I love doing things I'm not good at, to get good at them.

• 0:46Speaker 02

  Right. But it's just, it's not leisurely to me to play golf. Like, I can't enjoy it, because I'm bad at it.

• 0:54Joe Rogan?

  Well, you'll enjoy it if you get good at it, but the problem is to get good at it, then you gotta get obsessed.

• 0:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 0:59Joe Rogan?

  And then you gotta take less. Like, Jamie's got a fucking virtual reality thing in the back where he whacks balls every day.

• 1:04Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:05Joe Rogan?

  He's obsessive.

• 1:06Speaker 03

  Still recovering from hitting today. Sweating.

• 1:09Speaker 02

  Wow. My drummer's a really good golfer.

• 1:12Joe Rogan?

  Golf is one of those things, and if you get into that, man, that's your whole fucking day.

• 1:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:17Joe Rogan?

  That's eight hours.

• 1:18Speaker 02

  He goes out like, three or four days a week, on the road.

• 1:21Joe Rogan?

  When I was living in Boston, I noticed that the comedians that really got into golf, their career kinda stalled. Because all they were, they were just playing golf all day, having fun, drinking, and then they'd go to the club at night, but they weren't writing any new jokes, they weren't obsessing on their career. They kinda stalled out a little.

• 1:40Speaker 02

  When I still drank, I really liked golfing.

• 1:43Joe Rogan?

  Yeah?

• 1:43Speaker 02

  And then I quit drinking, and I was like, I don't really like this.

• 1:46Joe Rogan?

  When did you quit drinking?

• 1:49Speaker 02

  Uh, well, I quit a few times, but, uh, most recent time was like, a year and a half ago.

• 1:55Joe Rogan?

  Were you quitting because it was, you were just off the rails, or like, gotta get your health in order?

• 2:01Speaker 02

  Uh, it was, it was kind of a combo deal, you know? Um, like, when I met my wife, uh, at that point, I thought that I could drink like a gentleman. Um, and it just never really worked out that way. There was, you know, there was just something in me that just wanted to completely burn my life to the ground every time I drank, you know? A real destructive quality.

• 2:24Joe Rogan?

  Ooh, that's not good.

• 2:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:26Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, fortunately, I never had that. But that is a thing. I've seen that. What is that?

• 2:34Speaker 02

  I think it's, I think a lot of it is repressed emotions.

• 2:41Speaker 02

  And that's where they find you. When your, when your brain is.

• 2:44Joe Rogan?

  Demon in the bottle. Yeah.

• 2:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:48Joe Rogan?

  They go, hey, Marcus.

• 2:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, man.

• 2:50Joe Rogan?

  Let's get those problems out.

• 2:52Speaker 02

  It seduces me. It's like, you don't need anybody. Fuck everybody. That woman that married you, she, you don't want her, like.

• 3:01Joe Rogan?

  I think sometimes people do that to almost like save themselves from heartbreak sometimes. You kind of like wreck it yourself.

• 3:08Speaker 02

  It's like making fun of yourself before anyone else can.

• 3:11Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 3:11Speaker 02

  It's like that thing.

• 3:12Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, right. Like, just assume it's gonna go bad eventually. Let's get this fucking train on the tracks right now. Crack, pour, drink.

• 3:26Speaker 02

  That was, that was kind of my, you know, that was my approach for a while. I just, um, I don't know, man, I was just, I didn't want to feel anything. So that was all, that was where it would always end up. And I remember even asking my wife, like, a couple of years ago, we opened up for the Avett Brothers in Raleigh, North Carolina. And at that point, I'd been sober for like six months. And I was like, I really think I can handle it. You know? And then, and then got two famous last words, like, I chugged a jumbo White Claw. Like, I started with a jumbo White Claw. And I just got completely hammered, blacked out. Pissed my wife off so bad, like, I woke up and I was at our friend's house still, like, on the floor, and she left in my bus.

• 4:11Speaker 02

  And like my wallet, everything was on the bus. I had no identification. She was like, you can fucking figure it out, man.

• 4:18Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 4:19Speaker 02

  And, uh, the bus turnaround come got me, but, um. Yeah, she doesn't play any games.

• 4:25Joe Rogan?

  So, uh, did you stop then?

• 4:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, I did.

• 4:29Joe Rogan?

  Oh, so one night?

• 4:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, I had one night off the leash and I realized I couldn't handle it. You know? There's just some kind of quality in me that's like, I can't stop, you know? And maybe someday I'll find it. It's like, I gotta get right in here, you know, and in here with myself before I can really consider that again.

• 4:54Joe Rogan?

  I quit drinking for about eight months just because I realized I just wasn't feeling good. I was doing, because of the club, I was at the club every night. And, you know, it's like, one night, someone would say, hey, let's do shots. I'll do a shot. I want to be, you know, cordial, hang out with everybody, sense of community, let's all do it together. Come on, boys! And then, you know, two drinks, three drinks, go home, get up, feel like shit, work out, do it again the next day, feel even shittier the next day. And it's like, god damn, I gotta take some time off. So, I took about eight months off. I think, I think, I'm not exactly sure how much time I took off.

• 5:35Joe Rogan?

  And then, uh, I had like a drink with dinner one night and I said, this is all right. And so, since then, I've never gotten drunk. I've only had a drink or two.

• 5:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 5:47Joe Rogan?

  You know, so I've managed it. But I was not an alcoholic. I was just realizing that all this fun was, it was messing up the rest of my time. I was like, what is it? There's an expression that when you're drinking, like, the, you're, you're taking a loan out on the good times that you could have had for some good times that you can have right now. And then you gotta pay it back.

• 6:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, with, uh, with interest.

• 6:14Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, well, physically, the problem is physically for me, it just wasn't worth it. I just, I would be working out at the gym going, why, uh, why am I doing this? I keep feeling like shit. And every time I'm working out, I'm pushing through all this, you know, toxic shit that I poured down my throat the night before and my body's recovering from it, so I feel tired and drained. And then my brain wasn't working as well, you know?

• 6:41Speaker 02

  That was, that's what it was for me, was like the anxiety. And just like the, um, the dopamine depletion. And just feeling just completely just like, and I'm somebody who's already struggling with like, that's why I drink in the first place. It's like my mental issues and just anxiety and depression. And then it would just kinda hit me tenfold the next day.

• 7:06Joe Rogan?

  It's always interesting to me where someone with anxiety chooses a path in life like live performing.

• 7:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 7:14Joe Rogan?

  Cause like, if there's anything that gives people anxiety. It's live performing and you're really good at it. Which is crazy. It's like, you know, you're, you're picking this thing that you're really good at, but that gives a lot of people anxiety and you have anxiety to begin with.

• 7:31Speaker 02

  Yeah. I mean, it's like, there's, there's something to that. It's like Dan Soder, I always quote him on this. He's like, you know, I, I go around each night like craving the approval of like thousands of people a night. You're like, you didn't think I was doing that cause things went well growing up.

• 7:50Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 7:51Speaker 02

  Like I'm fucked up. I need, I need all these people to tell me I'm doing a good job, but.

• 7:58Joe Rogan?

  I think the idea is that eventually you channel that. And when you get yourself together, the idea, some people have this idea that if you ever get yourself together somewhat, and I don't think anybody ever gets totally together, but you get yourself together somewhat. And then you don't, you don't do it for the approval of it. You do it for the love of the art of it. The thing and bringing the thing to people and getting enjoyment out of having these people have a good time.

• 8:26Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 8:26Joe Rogan?

  I think you, I think that can be done. I think you can shift your focus from, I just want these people's love to I wanna give them love. I want everyone to have a good time. You know, I wanna be up there just fucking having a good time. They're having a good time. We all have a good time together. I make their lives feel better for a brief moment. I feel better. Everybody's. Part of living a healthier lifestyle means being extra careful of what you put into your body. AG1 Pro gets that. Their formula was carefully crafted with vitamins, probiotics, and superfoods your body needs, plus enhanced support for your workout and recovery, including creatine.

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• 11:01Joe Rogan?

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• 12:09Speaker 02

  And that's the shit, man. That's what I crave. And I mean, that's why, like, we just did a run of Texas Honky Tonks, which that was kind of the goal, was just to get everybody in these sweaty rooms, just for the purpose of just, like, enjoying music again, getting back to these sticky floors.

• 12:26Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Well, you reached out to me because we were talking on the podcast about how rock and roll's kind of dead. And you said, "Fucking rock and roll ain't dead, come on." And I was like, "All right, well, is anybody that could tell me that rock and roll's not dead? It's Marcus King."

• 12:40Speaker 02

  Man. Yeah, I was, um, my boy Ben Jernigan, he told me, he was like, "You should text Joe." Because I'm gonna have a listener. I was like, "You think I should say something?" And he's like, "Yeah, fuck it, tell them rock and roll ain't dead, man, it's here tonight, Green Hall."

• 12:57Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's not dead, but it's different. And a lot of the rock that's out now that's doing really well is like a southern-inspired rock, which is interesting. It's like a southern, almost country-like rock, like bluesy country rock, you know, Red Clay Strays, like that kind of shit. They're doing great. It's like, there's a lot of that out there, you know? Like, people, people are digging that kind of music, but there's just... You know, when I talk about like rock, I mean, like when I was in high school, it was all Van Halen, ACDC like that.

• 13:35Joe Rogan?

  There were so many big rock and roll bands, The Stones, you know, there was just so much of that out there. And it's odd that there's not a lot of big bands like that anymore.

• 13:51Speaker 02

  I think it's coming back around.

• 13:52Joe Rogan?

  God, I hope so. It doesn't make sense to me because like the classic rock is still. Like we're in the green room and Free Bird comes on, still everybody's going nuts.

• 14:05Speaker 02

  I mean.

• 14:05Joe Rogan?

  You know, I mean, there's classics, another southern rock and roll band, Lynyrd Skynyrd. But there's, there's still like a love of that kind of music, but it's just. It's weird that it kind of.

• 14:21Joe Rogan?

  You know, you just didn't, I don't know what happened.

• 14:24Speaker 02

  Well, it's interesting how cyclical the music industry can be. I feel like for the first time in the last 10 years, like since Urban Cowboy came out like. Cause I mean, for the last 10 years, I've been going to LA with a cowboy hat on and. I always get the same shit like, where, where do you want to park your horse, you know, like what are you up to cowboy? People are just talking shit, but now I go out there and everybody's got a cowboy hat on.

• 14:49Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 14:50Speaker 02

  It's like chic, yeah.

• 14:52Joe Rogan?

  That's interesting.

• 14:53Speaker 02

  It's like in Vogue, like the cowboy thing and.

• 14:56Joe Rogan?

  Makes you not want to wear a cowboy hat.

• 15:00Speaker 02

  Well, you know, it's just, I think rock and roll is kind of having a similar resurgence.

• 15:05Joe Rogan?

  God, I hope so. I hope so. You know, I mean, there's gotta be people out there that still love it and I just don't. I mean, I just don't understand how there's no new big bands like that.

• 15:22Speaker 02

  Well, it's interesting. You know, I was actually, I was in the gym watching, um, Led Zeppelin at Royal Albert Hall.

• 15:30Joe Rogan?

  Oh, wow.

• 15:31Speaker 02

  And I was like, this is a fucking jam band. They're jamming.

• 15:34Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 15:35Speaker 02

  You know?

• 15:35Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 15:36Speaker 02

  And I'm like, it just, like, the Allman Brothers Band was a jam band.

• 15:39Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 15:40Speaker 02

  They had guidelines, and that's kind of how we do our show. Like, we have songs that we're playing just to get to that, that improvisational section where we can just kind of, you know, work with the chemistry of the crowd and each other on stage.

• 15:54Joe Rogan?

  Mm.

• 15:55Speaker 02

  And it's just, um, it's interesting to me, like, the way things have become subdivided, you know? It's like, you're not a jam band unless it's like Widespread, or like Phish, or like The Dead, or something like that. But like, Zeppelin was a fucking jam band.

• 16:10Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, in a lot of ways, yeah. Especially when they're performing live.

• 16:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 16:15Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. It's... What is that band that sounds like Zeppelin?

• 16:21Speaker 02

  Greta Van Fleet?

• 16:22Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, Greta Van Fleet. They're fucking great.

• 16:24Speaker 02

  They are great.

• 16:25Joe Rogan?

  It's weird. It's weird, because they sound so much like Zeppelin, but they're really good.

• 16:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 16:32Joe Rogan?

  So, like, I give them a pass.

• 16:34Speaker 02

  They get a pass from me. I mean, they're my boys. I, I really, I really like those dudes. Like, we used to party together a bunch. They live in Nashville. And, uh, the guitar player Jake, he's, um, he's just the sweetest guy. Like, he gave me a housewarming gift. He's like, really into pirate stuff.

• 16:53Joe Rogan?

  Pirate stuff?

• 16:54Speaker 02

  Yeah. He's really into piracy. And he gave me... He gave me a, like a, like a, um, like a musket pistol.

• 17:03Joe Rogan?

  Oh, wow.

• 17:04Speaker 02

  Like what a pirate would have carried around. I got it.

• 17:06Joe Rogan?

  A real one?

• 17:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 17:07Joe Rogan?

  So, like, from the olden days?

• 17:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 17:09Joe Rogan?

  Oh, shit, that's gotta be worth a lot of fucking money.

• 17:11Speaker 02

  Yeah. I mean, they're doing pretty well.

• 17:14Joe Rogan?

  Wow. What is a old musket pistol run? How much can you get one of them for? See if you can find something, Jamie. Yeah, an old musket pistol. You know, when, um, the conquistadors took over Mexico, that's, they had twelve of those, that's it.

• 17:30Speaker 02

  Twelve guns.

• 17:31Joe Rogan?

  Twelve musket pistols.

• 17:33Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 17:33Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. I looked that up on perplexity.

• 17:37Joe Rogan?

  I was diving deep into how the fuck Mexico became Spanish.

• 17:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 17:41Joe Rogan?

  You know, like, what happened? How did it, like, they lost like a hundred indigenous languages, at least.

• 17:46Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 17:47Joe Rogan?

  It's kind of crazy, but... Here it is. What? You can get one for a hundred ninety-five bucks?

• 17:55Speaker 03

  Modern reproduction.

• 17:56Joe Rogan?

  Oh, reproductions. What about a real one?

• 17:58Speaker 03

  Down here.

• 17:59Joe Rogan?

  Antique ones. Uh, seventeenth-century Barbie Wars Antique Pirate Flintlock Pistol, recently sold for four hundred and sixteen dollars. That's it?

• 18:08Speaker 03

  No.

• 18:09Joe Rogan?

  Hmm, that seems crazy. That seems crazy.

• 18:14Speaker 02

  It's pretty good for a gift budget.

• 18:16Speaker 03

  I'd say it looks, based on how many reproductions and what you just said, there being twelve back then, there might not be that many of them that exist. They have to make reproductions.

• 18:24Joe Rogan?

  But if this says Antique Pirate Era Muskets and it said it sold for four hundred and sixteen bucks from the seventeenth century.

• 18:32Speaker 03

  Maybe it sucks. Maybe it's a bad one.

• 18:35Joe Rogan?

  But it's from the sixteen hundreds and it sold for four hundred and sixteen bucks?

• 18:39Speaker 03

  Yeah, I'll try to look it up.

• 18:40Joe Rogan?

  Can you see what those look like? Let's see if we can get one. We should get one and put it on the wall. Oh shit, look at that one.

• 18:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's.

• 18:49Joe Rogan?

  How much is that one?

• 18:50Speaker 03

  I think that's the one that sold for four hundred bucks.

• 18:52Joe Rogan?

  That says a hundred fifty-five dollars. What? That's crazy. How are they so cheap?

• 19:01Speaker 03

  There's the one for four sixteen.

• 19:03Joe Rogan?

  God, that seems like they should be almost priceless. I mean, this is from the fucking sixteen hundreds and it's sold for four hundred bucks?

• 19:13Joe Rogan?

  That one sold for two hundred bucks?

• 19:16Speaker 03

  Sounds like if you just go pick them up. There's a store in Austin, I bet they've got a bunch.

• 19:19Joe Rogan?

  No way.

• 19:19Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 19:20Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 19:20Speaker 03

  Well, I went to the store, they've got a bunch of weird shit like this. They must, they would have to have if they're only three hundred bucks, I guess, I would say. And all kinds of armor and guns and cannons and weird shit.

• 19:29Joe Rogan?

  What? What place is this?

• 19:31Speaker 03

  It's called Collector's. Yeah, I'll look it up real quick.

• 19:35Joe Rogan?

  There's something weird about those dudes who like, uh, wanna recreate wars.

• 19:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 19:40Joe Rogan?

  That's an odd thing. That's a very odd thing.

• 19:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, I've got the facial hair of a Civil War reenactor, but it's about as close as I get.

• 19:51Speaker 03

  They got all that shit on the wall.

• 19:52Joe Rogan?

  Oh, wow. That's in Austin?

• 19:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 19:56Joe Rogan?

  No shit.

• 19:57Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 19:58Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's pretty fucking dope.

• 19:59Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 20:00Joe Rogan?

  Collector's Crossroads.

• 20:01Speaker 03

  Popped in there one day to see what it was about.

• 20:03Joe Rogan?

  And they have little musket pistols?

• 20:05Speaker 03

  Yeah, they got all kinds of shit.

• 20:06Joe Rogan?

  I wonder how do you know the?

• 20:07Speaker 03

  Crossbows, swords.

• 20:10Joe Rogan?

  Crossbow's just a shitty gun. I'm not a fan.

• 20:14Speaker 03

  What if it was a pirate's crossbow?

• 20:16Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I guess. It's kinda cool, but it's just, uh... It is weird that we're really into like old, like, you know, it's interesting you're holding something that's a piece of history and what history is, is like, at the time, this was the shit. Like, at the time, this was like the coolest thing you can get. Like, four hundred years ago, if you wanted to kill somebody, this was the way to do it. You had to get one of these things, which is very odd.

• 20:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 20:43Joe Rogan?

  Which is very odd that... Oh, look at all this stuff.

• 20:46Speaker 03

  I don't know if it was George Washington shit there, but they had, that's what it looks like it would be.

• 20:50Joe Rogan?

  George Washington swords?

• 20:52Speaker 03

  I don't know.

• 20:53Joe Rogan?

  We should get one of those for Shane. He's a big George Washington fan.

• 20:56Speaker 03

  Look, there you go.

• 20:58Joe Rogan?

  Oh, wow. Look at that. That's crazy.

• 21:03Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, I don't even know what that is.

• 21:05Joe Rogan?

  That's a weird one. Look at the handle on that fucker.

• 21:07Speaker 03

  This is from Middle East, Central Asia?

• 21:09Joe Rogan?

  Ah, look, it's got like a dragon mouth on the back of it.

• 21:12Speaker 03

  That's pretty sweet.

• 21:14Joe Rogan?

  Huh.

• 21:15Speaker 03

  Alright, so...

• 21:15Joe Rogan?

  We need one of those. Alright, let's take a road trip, Jamie. We should probably do it before this episode comes out.

• 21:21Speaker 03

  I'll grab it tonight.

• 21:22Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, we need to go down there today before this episode goes... Fuck up their business. You go there, it's empty. All these dorks have fucking armor all over their house now. It's just, people that are really into like the old wars and recreating old wars, I always, I always wanna know, like, what's wrong with you? Like, what happened to you?

• 21:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's, um... I grew up with a kid that was like that. That was obsessed with like, everything Army Navy. But he, his father was in the military, but he had never gone into the military. They wouldn't, they wouldn't accept him.

• 22:00Joe Rogan?

  Why?

• 22:01Speaker 02

  I don't know, he was, I don't think he could ever pass the physical. He was a bigger dude.

• 22:06Joe Rogan?

  Oh, okay.

• 22:06Speaker 02

  His name was Maurice.

• 22:08Joe Rogan?

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• 22:51Joe Rogan?

  Visit drinkag1.com/joeroogan and for a limited time, get a bottle of vitamin D3, K2, and an AG1 flavor sampler for free in your welcome kit with your first subscription. That's drinkag1.com/joeroogan. They say that 77% of American kids can't pass the physical to get into the military.

• 23:14Speaker 02

  I believe it, man. Just based on my own experience. Like, I remember the Presidential Fitness Test, like, that's a bad memory of mine, just hanging on the pull-up bar in front of all my classmates and not being able to do one pull-up. Just hanging there.

• 23:31Joe Rogan?

  What is the Presidential Fitness Test?

• 23:33Speaker 02

  Uh, it's something they did when I was a kid. It's like, they wanted to make sure that you could do like 10 push-ups or however many pull-ups or whatever.

• 23:42Joe Rogan?

  How many pull-ups do you have to do for the Presidential Fitness Test?

• 23:44Speaker 03

  Uh, there's a different standard, but they literally, this was going on last week, they just started it up again. Donald Trump had, like, Bryce and DeChambeau in the White House with a couple guys, Gary Player and a golfer.

• 23:55Joe Rogan?

  For kids?

• 23:56Speaker 03

  Well, they had kids in there also.

• 23:57Joe Rogan?

  That's funny. It's funny because I'd go, "Hey, why don't you do it?"

• 24:04Joe Rogan?

  Let me see you doing chin ups, bro.

• 24:06Speaker 03

  Twenty-two pushups for a ten-year-old.

• 24:08Joe Rogan?

  Twenty-two pushups? That's a lot.

• 24:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, forty-five curlups, that's crazy.

• 24:14Joe Rogan?

  Six pullups, that's a lot. What's a curlup?

• 24:17Speaker 03

  With the other way, like biceps, uh, hands, you know, pull up with your hands.

• 24:21Joe Rogan?

  Forty-five?

• 24:22Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 24:22Joe Rogan?

  Come on. That's crazy.

• 24:25Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 24:26Joe Rogan?

  Wait a minute.

• 24:26Speaker 03

  In an eight-minute mile?

• 24:28Joe Rogan?

  Come on, is that really? It says six pullups or forty-five curlups. But curlups aren't that much easier than pullups, are they?

• 24:36Speaker 03

  I remember when I was ten, they were.

• 24:38Joe Rogan?

  What?

• 24:38Speaker 03

  But that's just being a ten-year-old. Cause your body, you're only like sixty, you know, I don't know, kids are light, usually lighter than I am.

• 24:45Speaker 02

  I was heavier than most.

• 24:47Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's, I was gonna say, there are different standards, I remember kids, some kids.

• 24:49Joe Rogan?

  But bro, forty-five is crazy. That seems...

• 24:53Speaker 02

  It seems excessive.

• 24:54Joe Rogan?

  That seems like a lot of reps. I don't even understand how that's possible. That that's the standard? I don't think I could do that.

• 25:02Speaker 03

  Uh, actually, I think those are situps. It's calling it a curlup, cause here it says it measures abdominal strength.

• 25:07Joe Rogan?

  Oh, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, situps. Okay. Oh, why are they calling it curlups? Cause it was like forty-five chinups. So it's like, there's pullups and chinups. Which one's a pullup, which one's a chinup?

• 25:20Speaker 03

  Pullup, hands over.

• 25:21Joe Rogan?

  Okay, and then chinup is this way.

• 25:23Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's what I remember doing.

• 25:24Joe Rogan?

  Forty-five of those would be bonkers. That's cra- I can't do that. That's no- cause like, six pullups, I could do. Easy. But forty-five, but forty-five situps is still hard. That's hard too.

• 25:37Speaker 03

  Well...

• 25:37Joe Rogan?

  That's a lot.

• 25:38Speaker 03

  It's a standard.

• 25:39Joe Rogan?

  Huh.

• 25:40Speaker 03

  Not every kid's there.

• 25:42Joe Rogan?

  That seems like a lot of kids wouldn't be there for forty-five situps.

• 25:45Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 25:48Joe Rogan?

  What are they trying to do?

• 25:49Speaker 02

  What are they doing to us, dude?

• 25:50Joe Rogan?

  I would fail not to, so they couldn't draft me. These motherfuckers are talking about drafting people. I was listening to Tim Dillon's show and he was saying that, see if this is true, that Palantir thinks that, uh, we should reintroduce conscription? Conscription? That kids should start getting drafted again into military and they should have mandatory military experience for kids? I just don't understand why anybody would wanna support that. That sounds crazy.

• 26:15Joe Rogan?

  Especially after this Iran war? Where everybody's like, why the fuck are we in Iran? And if you signed up for that?

• 26:25Joe Rogan?

  That sounds nuts. Is that real? Palantir has publicly called for the US to move away from an all-volunteer military and towards some form of universal national service that many observers interpret as reintroducing a draft or conscription.

• 26:42Speaker 03

  Yeah, Tim got into this manifesto that I haven't looked into this yet.

• 26:48Joe Rogan?

  Why the fuck would a tech company be saying that we need to move towards a universal national military service? How about fuck you? How about fuck you, you go? Because you know, none of these tech dorks that are running these companies, they're not doing it. Like, what are you talking about?

• 27:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:09Joe Rogan?

  Throwing meat into the machine?

• 27:11Speaker 02

  Right.

• 27:12Joe Rogan?

  Throwing people's children into these unnecessary wars? Fuck you.

• 27:17Speaker 02

  It's scary.

• 27:17Joe Rogan?

  It's very scary. It's scary that they would, like, how about, let's figure out a way to use your technology so there's no more wars. Wouldn't that be a better goal?

• 27:27Speaker 02

  Right.

• 27:27Joe Rogan?

  Instead of getting kids to fucking learn how to go shoot people they don't know?

• 27:32Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 27:32Joe Rogan?

  Because someone tells you to? And how many of these, out of all the wars that we've been in since World War II, is it zero that made sense? I think it's zero. I don't think there's one war that we've been in since World War II that makes any fucking sense at all.

• 27:49Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 27:49Joe Rogan?

  And they're like, I think the solution is, we need more people to be forced into it.

• 27:57Speaker 02

  I mean, what would a draft look like in today's culture? I mean, like, with inclusion, would it be like, anybody at 18 years old can be drafted? Or do you think it would still be just able-bodied young men?

• 28:09Joe Rogan?

  That's a good question.

• 28:12Joe Rogan?

  I, you know, I'm for people doing whatever they want, but when it comes to, like, combat, you're gonna draft women? That would be fucking insane. That would be insane.

• 28:27Joe Rogan?

  So are you not gonna, are you gonna be sexist? Are you gonna, yeah, are you gonna go inclusion and say, everybody has to do it? Well, then, that'll be good for America, because most people would say, get the fuck out of here. There's not a chance in hell we're doing that.

• 28:41Speaker 02

  Right.

• 28:42Joe Rogan?

  I just don't understand how people that aren't elected officials, that essentially just run a tech company, would think it's a good idea to call for national military service. I've heard other people say that, too. I've heard, like, podcasters and weird tech people say it's a good idea. And I don't know what the fuck they're thinking. I think they should have to go over there and experience war. And then, and then come back and see if you really think the same thing.

• 29:06Speaker 02

  Sure. I, I buy that. I mean, or at least go on like a USO tour, something. Go with Jeffrey Ross. See, see what it's about, you know?

• 29:15Joe Rogan?

  Well, then you're just gonna meet people that are happy to see you. You need to actually see combat. I just don't get why we're even listening to them. You, you make software, keep doing that.

• 29:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's interesting that they would even have the, like, why would they say that?

• 29:33Joe Rogan?

  It doesn't, no, it doesn't sound good. And it's also, they make weird surveillance software, that a lot of people are like, but how much are you surveill- how much power do you have? Like, Tim Dillon went pretty deep on it on the show, which is, I can't recommend enough. If you did not listen to the Tim Dillon show, you're fucking up. It's the funniest fucking take on all the chaos that's going on in the world. I don't think there's anybody better right now. His, his podcast is fucking phenomenal. Um, it's my must-listen-to podcast every week.

• 30:01Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 30:01Joe Rogan?

  It's so good. I just listen, but if you watch it, it's even more ridiculous. He was, he did this thing about them giving Ozempic to babies.

• 30:13Joe Rogan?

  Oh, it was so funny. It was so ridiculous.

• 30:18Speaker 02

  My dad did Ozempic, and he said, he said, man, you know, like, you can eat through that. He's like, you can just keep going, I mean, you won't feel great, but, you know. It curbs your appetite, but you can, you can get it down.

• 30:32Joe Rogan?

  Well, Tim talked about it, because he did it. And he said it didn't just stop his desire for food, it stopped his desire for everything. Which I've heard. So there's some people that think there's some good in these GLP-1s for addiction. Because it curbs whatever that is as well. So it can help people with all kinds of addictions too. Not just like food addictions, alcohol, but gambling, like weird stuff.

• 31:01Speaker 02

  I heard that.

• 31:02Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 31:03Speaker 02

  I did, I actually, I was doing it for a minute. And it was around the time that I was like, one of the times I was trying to quit drinking. And I was working on a record. And I was trying it out and it actually curbed my desire for a drink.

• 31:18Joe Rogan?

  Yeah?

• 31:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:20Joe Rogan?

  What else did it do?

• 31:21Speaker 02

  Gave me really bad stomach cramps.

• 31:24Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 31:25Speaker 02

  And also, I mean, that was like before I really, I just, I don't know. At that, at that time in my life, I just wasn't really concerned about what I put in my body. You know? I say that while I'm smoking a cigarette, but, you know.

• 31:42Joe Rogan?

  But dude, you're smoking natural spirits. I think those are safe and effective.

• 31:48Speaker 02

  Yeah. You know, additive free.

• 31:50Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. I just, I always wonder about these things when things come along to give people an easy fix. Like, okay, maybe it works, or maybe there's some sort of side effect that's gonna fuck you up for the rest of your life. And for some people, there is. I mean, some people are experiencing all kinds of wild side effects. Stomach paralysis is one of them. Brian Simpson got pancreatitis from it.

• 32:14Speaker 02

  Really?

• 32:15Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm. Yeah, he was sick in bed for like two weeks. It fucked him up. Yeah.

• 32:21Speaker 02

  Well, yeah, I mean, the long-term effects, like you just have no idea. Because it's new.

• 32:26Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 32:27Speaker 02

  You know?

• 32:28Joe Rogan?

  I've also heard that the problem is the dosages are too high. And what, you know, when you go into a doctor, they give you a standard dosage and the way to do it, some people feel, is to make a much smaller dose than what they're prescribing. And that that's what you need. You just need a little bit of a curb to it, not like a complete cessation of all desire to eat.

• 32:52Speaker 02

  Right. Getting to that, that high dosage really fast could probably be. Harmful.

• 32:59Joe Rogan?

  Or have some fucking discipline.

• 33:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 33:02Joe Rogan?

  How about try that out? How about try out, don't eat as much? Same thing.

• 33:06Speaker 02

  Right.

• 33:06Joe Rogan?

  Except this way it's not gonna kill your body. Or kill your stomach, or make you go blind, or what are the side effects? Cause there's a lot of lawsuits. There's a shit ton of lawsuits that are coming down the pipe. Cause I think people have gone blind. I think, I might have made that up. Check that.

• 33:26Joe Rogan?

  But this, this wild lawsuits.

• 33:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 33:29Joe Rogan?

  Where people are claiming bad side effects from this stuff. Which, you know, makes sense. It's medication, people vary biologically.

• 33:38Speaker 03

  Can cause.

• 33:39Joe Rogan?

  Permanent blindness.

• 33:40Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 33:41Joe Rogan?

  In one eye. Oh, well, you know. You got your other guy and now you got a six pack.

• 33:48Speaker 03

  Eye stroke.

• 33:49Joe Rogan?

  Eye stroke, oh boy.

• 33:52Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 33:53Joe Rogan?

  Whoo, non-arteritic interior ischemic optic neuropathy. I don't think I said that right. Sudden painless and often permanent blindness in one eye.

• 34:06Speaker 02

  Eye stroke sounds like a punk band.

• 34:07Joe Rogan?

  That does.

• 34:11Joe Rogan?

  Side effects, acute pancreatitis, that's what Brian got. Gallbladder problems, gastroparesis, stomach paralysis, bowel obstructions, and potential thyroid tumors.

• 34:25Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 34:26Joe Rogan?

  Mild GI issues are common. These severe complications require immediate medical attention, often occurring more frequently at higher doses. Yeah, that's what they're saying. It's apparently, when you're getting it from a pharmaceutical drug company, you're getting it, this is the argument for, um, compounding pharmacies, apparently. And then, then there's a new one that's coming out. What is it called? Retuitide?

• 34:50Speaker 03

  Retutide. Retitutide.

• 34:52Joe Rogan?

  Retitutide. And this one is supposed to be better because it doesn't cause muscle loss and it doesn't cause bone density loss. And it's supposed to be more effective.

• 35:04Joe Rogan?

  Huh, investigational.

• 35:07Speaker 02

  I mean, I don't know, I just typed in Reddit.

• 35:09Joe Rogan?

  But what, isn't that a weird word? Investigational, once weekly injectable triple agonist medication targeting GLP-1, GIP, and glucagen receptors. Developed by Eli Lilly, showing unprecedented weight loss results of up to 24% in phase two trials. They say that this is gonna be a trillion dollar medication.

• 35:33Joe Rogan?

  Or have some fucking discipline.

• 35:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 35:37Joe Rogan?

  Go to the gym, eat better, be healthy, do what Jelly Roll did.

• 35:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 35:42Joe Rogan?

  You know, Jelly Roll was at the club last night, he's down 300 pounds.

• 35:47Speaker 02

  That's fucking nuts.

• 35:47Joe Rogan?

  He runs like five miles a day, he works out every day. He looks fantastic. He looks like a different person. It's like I, I knew him when he was like 500 pounds, and now I know him when he's in the twos. It's like, he's a different human. He looks different, I, I know it's still Jelly Roll, but it looks like a completely different man. It's nuts.

• 36:07Speaker 02

  I remember when we did, uh, I was in the house band for Kill Tony at the Garden, and Jelly came out and did New York, New York.

• 36:15Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I was there.

• 36:16Speaker 02

  That's gotta be a custom suit. I was like, that's a big suit.

• 36:20Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 36:20Speaker 02

  And then the next time I saw him, he was like he is now. And, um, I mean, hell, like what I did, cause like, I have an appetite, you know? Like what I do now, like I, I'm basically doing like a keto diet, cause I like to eat a lot of whatever it is.

• 36:35Joe Rogan?

  Me too.

• 36:35Speaker 02

  So if it's like a big salad, you know, or whatever, but I'm down like 25 pounds doing that.

• 36:40Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that's nice.

• 36:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 36:42Joe Rogan?

  Are you doing this with the help of a nutritionist, or you just doing it on your own?

• 36:45Speaker 02

  Just doing it on my own.

• 36:48Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 36:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 36:49Joe Rogan?

  You're laughing.

• 36:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, I mean, you know, it's just, um, I've tried a few different routes, man. I've been, I've been, you know, husky since I was a kid, and shopping in the husky department at Kmart, you know?

• 37:04Joe Rogan?

  This episode is brought to you by the Apple Sports App. Guys, this is the ultimate best time of the year to be a sports fan. Football, baseball, basketball, hockey, soccer. The calendar is stacked, but it can also be hard to keep track of it all. And that is where the Apple Sports App comes into play. It is the fastest and easiest way to stay on top of all the action. With scores and play-by-play automatically showing up on your iPhone when the teams you follow are playing. That means you don't have to figure out when the games are on and how your team is doing, which is especially nice when you're following a bunch of teams and your friends are constantly blowing up the group chat.

• 37:46Joe Rogan?

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• 38:30Joe Rogan?

  That means keeping the phone you already have, ditching your overpriced phone bill, and pocketing some savings for yourself. All the perks of big wireless for half the cost. Switch today at visible.com. The Visible plan starts at just $25 a month. Or get the premium Visible Plus Pro Plan and save $10 on your first month with promo code ROGEN. Terms apply. See visible.com for plan features and network management details. Is this, uh, do you think it's a genetic thing? Do you think it's the way you ate as a child? What do you think?

• 39:05Speaker 02

  I think psychological, a lot of it. It was like the only thing I had control of as a as a child is like food. It was like and a scarcity mindset as well.

• 39:16Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 39:16Speaker 02

  Just like the way that I, you know, think about food is just, you know, probably not the healthiest. So for me, it's just easier to say like, I don't eat these things. Cause like, if I eat bread or something like that, it just hurts my stomach now, you know? And I just, I can feel like the difference when I don't eat it, you know? I just feel better.

• 39:38Joe Rogan?

  Oh.

• 39:39Speaker 02

  I have more energy.

• 39:39Joe Rogan?

  A hundred percent.

• 39:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 39:41Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. And once you get your body working on ketones too, the thing is you've just, your brain functions better. That's one of the more interesting things. This is why people take things like, um, um, like ketone, what is it? Ketone IQ? That stuff's great. Like you just down one of those little shots and it puts you into ketosis temporarily.

• 40:02Speaker 02

  Oh, really?

• 40:02Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm. Yeah, they're exogenous ketones. I think the guy who just invented those just died. Um, he was also a guy that worked for Balco Labs. He developed the, the clear, that shit that Barry Bonds took.

• 40:16Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 40:17Joe Rogan?

  The steroids. So this guy was a chemist. He was a scientist. I think someone, oh, I think Chris Bell, Chris Bell or Mark, I think it was Mark Bell. Just posted about it on his Instagram page that this guy just died. This guy was like one of America's great chemists. And he developed a lot of these things, including exogenous ketones, according to Mark. But, um, that's one of the things that I noticed when I went into, when I did the carnivore diet. Is that immediately, my brain just started functioning better. Which is what I try to eat most of the time. Like this morning, I ate, um, sausage and eggs and sausage from an animal that I shot. I like to do that. I eat like, uh, I had sable. This is the guy.

• 41:01Joe Rogan?

  So this is Mark's Instagram. The greatest chemist of our time and possibly any other. Patrick Arnold is dead. Patrick Arnold's the guy who made the cream and the clear for the Bonds and Maguire. Uh, all that Bonds and Maguire blasted blasted home runs off of supposedly. In addition to those incredible inventions, he also brought exogenous ketones to the market. What happened to that guy? How did he die?

• 41:26Speaker 02

  That's an interesting picture to put up.

• 41:28Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 41:28Speaker 02

  Looks like Oswald looking at Jack Ruby.

• 41:32Joe Rogan?

  He looks healthy. I want to know how he died.

• 41:36Joe Rogan?

  I wonder how old that picture was.

• 41:41Joe Rogan?

  Organic chemist. And just in Dion too, oh, he, he had all those, uh, pro, what are those, what are those pro hormones? Or whatever those things were that people were taking that weren't totally steroids, but they were kinda steroid like.

• 41:57Joe Rogan?

  How did he die? Does it say?

• 42:00Speaker 03

  It's a weird website too.

• 42:03Joe Rogan?

  Uh, he died at sixty.

• 42:10Joe Rogan?

  Hmm. Maybe he's experimenting on himself. Bunches did put in cause of death.

• 42:21Joe Rogan?

  I know it should come up.

• 42:24Joe Rogan?

  You would think a guy who's working on like, performance and fitness.

• 42:31Joe Rogan?

  Does it say?

• 42:31Speaker 03

  No.

• 42:36Speaker 03

  There's a Reddit post, but I don't know.

• 42:37Joe Rogan?

  When you click on what happened, oh, to David Arnold.

• 42:40Speaker 03

  Somebody else.

• 42:41Joe Rogan?

  Oh, Patrick Arnold. Huh, so it just doesn't say how he died?

• 42:45Speaker 03

  Nope, and it just happened, so there's not a lot of thought of it.

• 42:48Joe Rogan?

  Oh, okay, so it hasn't been released yet.

• 42:52Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 42:54Joe Rogan?

  He made a lot of roids. You gotta wonder. The dude is like, doing so much work in anabolic steroids, he worked for Balco. They were the ones that were making undetectable steroids, you know about that whole story? This is back in the, was it in the nineties, Jamie?

• 43:11Speaker 03

  The.

• 43:12Joe Rogan?

  The, the McGuire.

• 43:14Speaker 03

  Around two thousand.

• 43:15Joe Rogan?

  So, um, they developed steroids that were undetectable. So when they would test for steroids, what they would do is they would take, cause when, I guess the way it works is when they're doing a steroid test, they're looking for very specific molecules. So they invented a molecule that had like additional things attached to it where it wouldn't show up. I'm probably butchering that, but. Essentially, they were undetectable steroids. One of them was called the Clear. And the guy who ran the lab was called Balco Laboratories. It was this guy Victor Conti, who eventually went to jail for that. And then when he, I don't know why he went to jail, but he got out and then became an anti-steroid sort of activist.

• 43:56Joe Rogan?

  And he was, I don't want to say activist, but he was essentially, he was ratting people out and saying that this guy's probably doing steroids and this is how he's doing it. And then a lot of athletes were using his company to use steroid-free performance-enhancing supplements that were legal. So he would show you what's legal and how to do it. He knew a lot about it because he did the illegal stuff, too.

• 44:19Speaker 02

  Interesting.

• 44:20Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 44:22Speaker 02

  I've got, I've gotten a couple steroid shots, like, before a show, like, if my voice goes out.

• 44:27Joe Rogan?

  Like, what kind? Is it like a cortisone, or?

• 44:30Speaker 02

  I guess that's what it is. It's like that one that they shoot in your ass cheek.

• 44:33Joe Rogan?

  Hmm. What does that do, like, for your voice? When your voice goes?

• 44:37Speaker 02

  It just brings you back.

• 44:39Joe Rogan?

  Man, it's gotta be rough when a fucking singer loses their voice.

• 44:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, people have asked me before, like, what my warm-up routine is, and, like, I've never had one.

• 44:49Joe Rogan?

  A few cigarettes?

• 44:50Speaker 02

  A couple cigarettes. It used to be a shot of whiskey. If I was really in dire straits, I would take, like, a handful of sugar-free gummy bears and put boiling water on that.

• 45:03Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 45:03Speaker 02

  And then the gummy bears would, like, coat my throat.

• 45:05Joe Rogan?

  Huh.

• 45:06Speaker 02

  Like, honey, ginger, lemon.

• 45:08Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, hot water and lemon is a really good one. There's something about that that eases.

• 45:13Speaker 02

  Really, it's like time off is what fucks my voice up more than anything.

• 45:16Joe Rogan?

  Time off?

• 45:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 45:17Joe Rogan?

  Really? Oh, so, like, your vocal cords get out of shape?

• 45:20Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 45:21Joe Rogan?

  Interesting.

• 45:22Speaker 02

  Because it's hard to, like, keep them up, you know?

• 45:25Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 45:25Speaker 02

  Unless you're, like, going in your garage and screaming for two hours a night, you know?

• 45:29Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy. I never thought about it like that. Like, your vocal cords are essentially a muscle like any other, and they develop over time, and you get endurance.

• 45:39Joe Rogan?

  That makes sense.

• 45:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, so like the pandemic was like the first time that a lot of us like had any extended amount of time off from the road and we all started noticing like, or at least me, like I came back like hurting a little bit.

• 45:55Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that makes sense. I saw Guns N' Roses in Athens, Greece and Axl Rose, you know, has that crazy singing style.

• 46:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 46:06Joe Rogan?

  It's like a like and that has to be fucking hell on your voice and you know, the show was amazing, but his voice is not the same. It's just, there's no way it can be.

• 46:19Speaker 02

  I know Steven Tyler, like he's back.

• 46:22Joe Rogan?

  Is he?

• 46:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 46:23Joe Rogan?

  So he quit for a while because he was like, I can't sing and then he healed up and now he's back again?

• 46:29Speaker 02

  I don't know exactly what he did, but I, I played with him back in January and like the boys.

• 46:34Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 46:35Speaker 02

  Boys back.

• 46:36Joe Rogan?

  No shit, that's fucking great.

• 46:38Speaker 02

  Singing his ass off.

• 46:39Joe Rogan?

  That's fucking great. I love to hear that.

• 46:41Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 46:42Joe Rogan?

  I saw the Stones a couple of years ago at Circuit of the Americas and Mick Jagger can still wail.

• 46:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 46:50Joe Rogan?

  He can still wail. That, that was a great fucking show. Almost surreal.

• 46:54Speaker 02

  He's got a lot of energy too, man.

• 46:56Joe Rogan?

  So much energy.

• 46:57Speaker 02

  It's crazy.

• 46:58Joe Rogan?

  He has two trailer trucks that he brings with him that are just gym equipment.

• 47:02Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 47:02Joe Rogan?

  Everywhere they go, two big ass trailer trucks, just filled with gym equipment. They say he works out seven days a week.

• 47:09Speaker 02

  That's awesome.

• 47:10Joe Rogan?

  And he's a hundred and eighty thousand years old. He's still up there, still, and then Keith Richards, opposite approach, whiskey, cocaine, LSD, no problems, still there too. So it's like.

• 47:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 47:23Joe Rogan?

  Find something you love and stick with it.

• 47:25Speaker 02

  I know. It's so funny, like, it makes me think of like, we went out with Willie a few times and, um, Willie's got like, like most artists, he's got like eighteen tractor trailers back there. But like, I don't know if you've been to a Willie Nelson show recently. It's like, there's nothing on the stage. I'm like, what's in all these fucking trucks? I never really got to the bottom of that, but there's like seven or eight truck drivers back there.

• 47:51Joe Rogan?

  It's all weed.

• 47:53Speaker 02

  It must be all weed or something.

• 47:55Joe Rogan?

  Go in, there's all grow lights and plants and shit. He's got that drink that they sell.

• 48:01Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 48:01Joe Rogan?

  He's got that weed drink.

• 48:03Speaker 02

  Willie's remedy.

• 48:04Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and Ron White brought some to the green room of the comedy mothership. And someone was saying, oh, you can't get it. That's not real. I'm like, it's real as fuck, dude. That stuff's very legit.

• 48:14Speaker 02

  It's real.

• 48:15Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's very, I don't know what the rules are, the laws are.

• 48:20Speaker 02

  It feels like it's starting to become like a gray area.

• 48:23Joe Rogan?

  It should be. I mean, they just made it schedule three, okay? So what that means is, and I mean, it's a great step in the right direction. I'm very happy that the president did that. It really should be regulated the same way alcohol is. It should be for adult use, twenty-one and older. It shouldn't be, maybe, I wonder what the issue, well, I'm sure there's a bunch of issues, right? There's like lobbies that are trying to keep it illegal. Like, there's the alcohol lobby that doesn't want it legal, because it cuts down on alcohol sales. And I know they lobby to try to make sure those laws stay in place. And then unfortunately, you have prison guard unions that lobby for it, which is fucked. Right? They want to keep their job. And so the way they keep their job is to keep people locked up.

• 49:08Joe Rogan?

  And the way they keep people locked up is keep laws that don't make sense, like.

• 49:14Speaker 02

  That's fucked up.

• 49:15Joe Rogan?

  Fucked up. That's a, that's an evil fucking, it just doesn't make any sense. If you can buy alcohol, you should be able, like, I'm not saying you should drink alcohol. You don't drink alcohol anymore. Like I said, I took months off. It's like. You should have some self-control, and I know some people don't, but get your shit together. You should, but other people are fine with alcohol. They go to the bar, have a drink or two, go home, go out to dinner, have a drink, go at home, have a drink while they're watching TV, and they're fine.

• 49:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 49:46Joe Rogan?

  It should be a personal choice. No adult should be able to tell you what you can and can't do, and be able to lock you up in a fucking cage if you don't listen. That's nuts. And in a free country, and this country is as free as it gets in this world, there's no way weed should be illegal. It should be regulated, and it should be only for people that are adults, where, you know, you have to be 21 to be able to buy it. It's, look, it's never stopped kids from getting alcohol. They, they still get alcohol. It's not stopping kids right now from getting weed. They can still get weed. But if it was legal and regulated, first of all, we'd get taxes from it, and that would be huge for every state. You'd get a, a, a ton of tax money that you're not getting right now.

• 50:28Joe Rogan?

  And also, you would keep people from getting locked up for their own personal choices, which is just insane.

• 50:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 50:36Joe Rogan?

  I mean, not a lot of people get locked up for personal use these days. That's pretty rare. But there's still, there's just way too many laws.

• 50:44Speaker 02

  Yeah. I mean, i- it's interesting too, like, if you have like, um, like CBD flower, like technically that's legal.

• 50:54Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 50:55Speaker 02

  So like, if you just put some of your cannabis in a CBD container, like, are there ways to like test that on the side of the road, like if you get pulled and they search your car?

• 51:04Joe Rogan?

  Not on the side of the road, but they could confiscate it and then test it, I think. But there's weird things about like legalization of, I was watching a YouTube video about what Texas's laws were. And Texas's laws are the amount of THC by volume. So, the thing about that is, if you get like gummies,

• 51:26Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 51:27Joe Rogan?

  like, a, a 10-milligram gummy will pass that by volume and be legal. So are you saying that people can take 10-milligram THC gummies and that's legal?

• 51:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 51:39Joe Rogan?

  Because they'll fuck you up. Like, uh, if you don't smoke weed, a 10-milligram THC gummy will have you going, ooh.

• 51:49Speaker 02

  Dude.

• 51:50Joe Rogan?

  Take two of those, and who knows what's gonna happen to you?

• 51:53Speaker 02

  I just watched this movie that, uh, a friend of mine was in this movie. Um, Laney Wilson. And we watched the movie and I don't want to spoil the movie for anybody, but it turns out that the girl like, she went to jail because she was impaired while driving and she was impaired by weed gummies. And I was like, that's kind of gay.

• 52:14Joe Rogan?

  Hmm, well, depends on how much you took.

• 52:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, but.

• 52:19Joe Rogan?

  If you take two hundred milligrams, you get behind a wheel, you're not even exactly sure what the road is.

• 52:22Speaker 02

  Two hundred milligrams is a lot, yeah.

• 52:24Joe Rogan?

  Right, so that's pretty impaired. That's, that's equivalent to like eight shots of whiskey and then getting in your truck.

• 52:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 52:30Joe Rogan?

  You're impaired.

• 52:31Speaker 02

  I guess you're right.

• 52:32Joe Rogan?

  I don't think you should drive on weed. I definitely don't think you should drive fucked up. But it's like the same, like, I don't advocate drinking and driving either, but if you have like one drink and drive, like, you're gonna feel like a little relaxed and lubricated, but I don't know how much you'll be, and it also varies on who the person is. If the person is used to drinking all the time, one drink is not gonna do a damn thing to them. But for some people, one drink will make you drive stupid. You'll do stupid things.

• 53:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 53:06Joe Rogan?

  It's, it's a, it's all a personal responsibility thing.

• 53:09Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 53:09Joe Rogan?

  That's the bottom line about all of it. And yeah, you shouldn't be out there drinking and driving. You shouldn't be out there eating five hundred milligram edibles and fucking driving in a car. No, no.

• 53:19Speaker 02

  I remember one time my drummer had this like THC spray. Have you ever fucked with that?

• 53:24Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah, we had that back in California.

• 53:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 53:27Joe Rogan?

  Like, ch ch, breast spray.

• 53:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, and I was, I was still drinking at the time and me and my wife were both just hammered and we were on this, uh, a ferry. Like, the tour bus goes on to the ferry and the ferry carries you over from, um, France to the UK. And we were like sitting in the lounge area on the ferry, uh, lounge area on the ferry, rather. And, um, he had this spray and I was like, it's not doing anything.

• 53:53Joe Rogan?

  Oh, no.

• 53:54Speaker 02

  Me and my wife both kept just spraying it.

• 53:56Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 53:56Speaker 02

  And, um, then I woke up in my bed, just like in a cartoon, just like, completely removed from reality, just, and, um.

• 54:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was a, it was a bad, bad scene.

• 54:09Joe Rogan?

  I remember one time I took a, they had these THC breath strips that they used to sell. And the problem with these things, and this is back in the pre-legalization days of pre 2016 in California. And so each store you would get weed at, like they would have medical stores. So you could go to a doctor and say, hey doc, I got a headache. And they go, you need medicine. And they would write your prescription and then you can go. And like, there's always reasons to have it, just like there's reasons to have Tylenol. Do you get a headache? Yeah, well then you need it. Do you have a backache? Yeah, well then you need it. So you could get it pretty easy. And they had these breath strips and I took one and I got on a plane.

• 54:51Joe Rogan?

  And I closed my eyes when I was lying in the plane and I was watching neon, like cartoon characters that are made out of neon light. And they were having sex. It was an orgy of, and I was just lying there with my eyes closed, watching these cartoon neon characters fuck. And they were fucking in like complete blackness, like void. So it was just the colors of their weird bodies, just banging each other and then they would shift shapes and another one would pile on and they would. I was like, this is crazy. It was very psychedelic. It was almost like, but when I'd open my eyes, the world was normal. It wasn't like I was, the world was wiggling and, and I was just sitting, I didn't have anything to do. I was flying all the way to New York. It was a six hour flight.

• 55:34Joe Rogan?

  By the time it landed, I'd sobered up, but I was like, this is cra- like how much is in these fucking things? Cause it's, they're not making them in the same labs where they're making fucking Tylenol. You know, I mean, it's some hippie, some dude who's like pouring weed into a machine and can't remember whether I put weed in there. Cause he's high as fuck, so he adds double. They're very inconsistent.

• 55:55Speaker 02

  It's like the microdoses that I, I used to get in Macon, Georgia. I was like, some of these are stronger than other ones. And he's like, yeah. So depending on the day, my boy Hov is like, you know, he's gonna ride it for whatever it is.

• 56:11Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's why we need legalization, regulation. That's the beautiful thing about whiskey. You get a glass of whiskey, you get a shot, you know exactly what that shot's gonna do. The shots of whiskey have been having the same impact on human beings for hundreds of fucking years.

• 56:24Speaker 02

  You can quantify it.

• 56:25Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and that's how it should be with all these things. But the problem is, when they're outlawed, you know, some of them are, you know, a glass of wine, some of them are fucking moonshine. Like, you you need regulation. And it's, the idea that there's laws against people's personal choices is fucking stupid, man. There's plenty of laws that are good. Don't murder people, don't rob, don't rape, don't do this, don't do that. That's great. Don't vandalize. Great, great laws. Makes sense, better society. Laws on personal choices, especially things that you might enjoy, like having a joint with your wife, you know, after dinner and just sitting there and watching Netflix together, like,

• 57:06Joe Rogan?

  the fucking armed thugs can burst into your house and take the joint away from you. Like, who are we protecting? Who are we serving? Who are we protecting and serving with that? That's dumb.

• 57:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 57:17Joe Rogan?

  It's just bad for society. And it creates this business. Once a business is established, the business of enforcement, once that business is established, that business doesn't want to go away. Because now you have a bunch of people whose jobs depend on enforcing laws, enforcing these things that don't make any sense. And they want to protect that, because that's their livelihood. So now you got a quagmire. Now you're in a fucking terrible situation that there's no easy way out, other than ripping the Band-Aid off and making it legal. You're also propping up the cartels. That's the other problem with it being completely illegal in this country federally. It's like, well, guess what? It's, there's still a demand for it. So legal companies that actually employ people and

• 57:59Joe Rogan?

  give the employees healthcare and, you know, have rules and regulations. Now, they're not making it, so they're not growing it. So instead, you have fucking cartels that are growing it in California on public land, because if you get caught, it's just a misdemeanor, because it's legal in California. So literally, I think it's more than 80% of all the weed that's sold in the United States that's illegal.

• 58:26Joe Rogan?

  Is grown in California on public lands by the cartel. And they use toxic pesticides and herbicides. They they use all kinds of shit that you're not allowed to use in in normal farming.

• 58:37Speaker 02

  Right.

• 58:38Joe Rogan?

  And, you know, the only reason why it exists is because we've made these stupid fucking laws. So now that it's Schedule III, it's in the same category as like Tylenol with codeine.

• 58:51Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 58:51Joe Rogan?

  Which is not bad. It's better, certainly better than Schedule I, which is ridiculous. So now, hopefully, once they do more testing and more studies, they can get to a point where federally it's legal and regulated. That would be the best case for everybody, just in the same category as alcohol. Get all that tax money from it and then don't make criminals out of American citizens that just want to make personal choices. This episode is brought to you by OnX Offroad. Ever wonder how to reach these epic mountain lakes that are tucked away dispersed campsites? With OnX Offroad, you'll find legal open trails around you and even better guided trails mapped by real off-roaders.

• 59:36Joe Rogan?

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• 1:00:17Speaker 02

  When did it, uh, when did it get scheduled as, uh, Schedule I?

• 1:00:21Joe Rogan?

  Well, the whole Schedule I thing, this is, this is what I talked about when I went to the White House recently, which is a hilarious thing to say for a retard like me.

• 1:00:32Joe Rogan?

  That I helped get things scheduled. I mean, when it all goes down in the history books, they they attach my name to this. It's gonna be really confusing. They're gonna be like, what? Fucking that guy? What? How? What the fuck happened? So when, in 1970, the Richard Nixon administration passed the Controlled Substances Act, and it made, uh, DMT, psilocybin, LSD, all these different things, it made them Schedule 1. So that the the the idea is that there was no benefit, including ibogaine, which is crazy, uh, which has, means it has no medical benefit, and, uh, harmful, and addictive, all these

• 1:01:14Joe Rogan?

  different qualities that they attached to it. But the only reason they did that was to target the civil rights movement. The civil rights movement and the anti-war movement, that's what they were doing. They didn't like the fact that these people were causing trouble, and then they were organizing, you know, marches, and doing all these different things that were disrupting the government. And there was also this movement where people like, why are we living the way we're living? Like, this was the 60s. Like, why are we doing what we're doing? Like, well, I don't want to be like my parents. They're not happy. You know, I want to live a life that's like freer. I want to be filled with love and joy, and I want to, you know, have a good time and follow the Grateful Dead around. Like, so, a lot of people in government were very concerned with this new movement. And if

• 1:01:55Joe Rogan?

  you go and, like, music is a great example. Like, if you look at the music of the 1950s, and then you look at the music of the 1960s, like, what the fuck happened?

• 1:02:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:02:06Joe Rogan?

  Like, if you look at the music of 2016 and the music of 2026, not much difference.

• 1:02:12Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:02:13Joe Rogan?

  Right? It's all great. It's all, but it's like, it's not, there's not some revolutionary crazy new change. But you saw that from 1959 to 1969, there is a radical difference. A radical difference. 1950, you got like, you go from Buddy Holly to Jimi Hendrix. You're like, okay, what the fuck happened? Something crazy must have happened. And it's drugs. It's psychedelic drugs.

• 1:02:38Speaker 02

  It's like the stone ape theory in, you know, our modern society.

• 1:02:42Joe Rogan?

  Exactly. Exactly. And this terrified the administration. And they were really worried that they were gonna completely lose control of the country. And so, they passed this... Controlled Substances Act. And that happened in nineteen seventy and from that time on, we've been fucked. You know, for fifty-six fucking years, we've been under the grip of this stupid fucking law. That was passed by the Nixon administration, it didn't make any sense. Some of the drugs that they attitude aren't even psychoactive. They just threw a bunch of stuff in there and they missed a bunch of potent ones.

• 1:03:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:03:21Joe Rogan?

  They missed five methoxy D M T. They missed five M E O D M T, which is one of the most potent psychedelics, if not the most potent psychedelic. You used to be able to buy that online.

• 1:03:31Speaker 02

  Oh, wow.

• 1:03:32Joe Rogan?

  Dude, there was a company that you could order from and they would send you a fucking jug of it as big as this. Now, the amount that gets you blasted into the center of the universe and introduces you to God is like the si- It's like the size that goes on your pinky.

• 1:03:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:03:48Joe Rogan?

  Like your pinky nail, like that amount, you smoke that, you'll see God.

• 1:03:52Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 1:03:53Joe Rogan?

  And you could just buy a fucking jar of it online. There was a company called the American Chemical Co- Company. American Chemical Company or American Chemical Corporation. And you used to be able to just buy five methoxy D M T and they would just send it to you, like a jar of vitamins.

• 1:04:10Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 1:04:11Joe Rogan?

  Boo. And then you could go to head shops and buy Salvia.

• 1:04:14Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:04:15Joe Rogan?

  So Salvia is a fucking insanely potent psychedelic, which by the way, is also sage. Like sage is the same family, the same genus as Salvia.

• 1:04:29Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 1:04:29Joe Rogan?

  So like, think about it, sage, meaning wise, like, like an old sage.

• 1:04:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:04:34Joe Rogan?

  And meanwhile, that is one of the most potent psychedelics in the world. And so kids were going to head shops and buying Salvia. I don't know if they've made that illegal now, they probably have, right? Is Salvia illegal now?

• 1:04:52Speaker 02

  I don't know.

• 1:04:53Joe Rogan?

  So Ari Shaffir on Brian Redband's podcast, do you know this story?

• 1:04:57Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:04:58Joe Rogan?

  Okay, Ari Shaffir went on Brian Redband's podcast and took a giant hit of salvia and went under for like 10 minutes. And when he came back, he said that he had lived six months under the water with like with a entire different community of human beings under the water, had relationships, had a job, like had a six month experience and then came back in that 10 minutes. And he was so confused, he was so baffled. He's like, I had a life under there, I had a girlfriend, I had friends. He goes, I had all these experiences.

• 1:05:35Speaker 02

  No shit.

• 1:05:36Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:37Speaker 02

  Ari's crazy, man.

• 1:05:38Joe Rogan?

  He's crazy. He's fun.

• 1:05:40Speaker 02

  He came out to my show in New York. He's the man.

• 1:05:43Joe Rogan?

  He is the man. But I mean, that's, that's how potent this fucking salvia stuff is. By the way, a lady had a very similar experience recently who went into a coma. So she was in a coma for an extended period of time. I want to say it was like a few months. And when she came out, she had a whole life that she said she had triplets and she had, like she was married, all these different things. Here, here's a story. Uh, she asked for her triplets after waking up from a coma. Doctors say they never existed. When she woke from a coma, first thing she did was ask for her three daughters. Medical staff was stunned. The response shattered her entire world.

• 1:06:26Joe Rogan?

  Just like that, the children she had nursed, watched grow and deeply cared for over seven years were gone. So she was placed in a medically induced coma for three weeks. And what followed was a dream of a lifetime, twite literally. She was obviously not aware that she was in a coma. Instead, she slipped into a dream and a lifetime unfolded before her eyes. Talking to the outlet, the teen recalled having extremely intense dreams and nightmares. She was not aware that she was in a coma at the time, so those dreams became her reality. So she became a mother. She said it felt so real. She felt the physical and emotional pain throughout the hallucination. I could feel so many things. When I dreamed about giving birth, I felt the stress. I also felt a lot of pain in this dream. I gave birth

• 1:07:10Joe Rogan?

  to triplets, who I named Mila, Miles, and Miley. Miley died shortly after birth. I felt so awful, overwhelmed with sadness and guilt, she recalled. She remembers the first skin-to-skin contact that she had with her babies. It was incredible. I felt an overwhelming wave of love, she added. In her dreams, she lived for seven years and watched her daughters grow up. Each had their own personalities. One was quite shy. The other was a bundle of energy. I remember walks, meals we shared, and bedtime stories. She loved them with all her heart. And then she woke up from the coma and was told that her children never existed. That's when they told me they didn't exist. I was in shock. I was so convinced

• 1:07:51Joe Rogan?

  that it was real, that the time I saw my parents again, I told them they were grandparents.

• 1:07:57Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 1:07:58Joe Rogan?

  Whoa.

• 1:07:59Speaker 02

  That's crazy, man.

• 1:08:00Joe Rogan?

  It makes you like, wonder, like, what is reality? What is this thing that we're currently experiencing?

• 1:08:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:08:07Joe Rogan?

  And we're currently experiencing this thing, but what, what is this? Is this everything? Is this the whole thing? Or is this like, one channel on an infinite radio? And just while we're on that channel, we think this is the radio?

• 1:08:23Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:08:25Joe Rogan?

  Well, maybe it is. Maybe when you go to sleep, maybe that's just as real as being awake.

• 1:08:33Speaker 02

  Heavy thought.

• 1:08:34Joe Rogan?

  But the idea that you just shut off every night is bananas.

• 1:08:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:08:38Joe Rogan?

  We look forward to it. Oh, can't wait to just go away.

• 1:08:41Speaker 02

  Go away for a few hours.

• 1:08:42Joe Rogan?

  Can't wait to not exist. And if you don't, like, if I don't get enough sleep, I'm like, whatever, whatever happens during the dream time, the sleep time, the recovery, I feel it. I, my waking life, like, I haven't done what I'm supposed to do by sleeping for an extended period of time. So my, this reality is compromised. This reality, I'm dumber, my memory sucks, I'm more tired, I don't have any energy. I can't wait to go to sleep. Can't wait to shut off so I could pay back the void. Pay back the void, the time I owe. Into the dreamland of bizarre dreams.

• 1:09:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:09:23Speaker 02

  Just the symbolism of dreams, too. I've been having a lot of crazy dreams lately.

• 1:09:27Joe Rogan?

  Like what?

• 1:09:28Speaker 02

  I dream about snakes a lot, which is a good.

• 1:09:30Joe Rogan?

  Snakes.

• 1:09:31Speaker 02

  It's a good sign.

• 1:09:32Joe Rogan?

  Is it?

• 1:09:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, dreaming about snakes evidently just represents like shedding your skin, going into something new, you know, growing.

• 1:09:40Joe Rogan?

  Or you're surrounded by people who wanna get ya.

• 1:09:43Speaker 02

  Or maybe that.

• 1:09:45Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:45Speaker 02

  Which both can be true.

• 1:09:49Speaker 02

  You know, the music business.

• 1:09:52Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:53Speaker 02

  There's a lot of snakes.

• 1:09:55Joe Rogan?

  Isn't it every business, though?

• 1:09:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, just the idea, like, the business side is just so in contrast to like the artistic sensibility, you know? An artist is supposed to be, not supposed to be, but just like psychological, our makeup is more just like open and just more just like giving and wanting to share your craft with somebody and more emotional, you know?

• 1:10:21Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:22Speaker 02

  Um, and then having to be like a shark and having to think like these snakes.

• 1:10:29Joe Rogan?

  Contracts.

• 1:10:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:10:33Joe Rogan?

  Sign of the dotted line, Marcus. You're gonna make so much money, Marcus.

• 1:10:43Joe Rogan?

  It's only seven years.

• 1:10:44Speaker 02

  It's just seven years.

• 1:10:45Joe Rogan?

  With an extension, with options.

• 1:10:48Speaker 02

  With options, I was about to say.

• 1:10:49Joe Rogan?

  You'll be free. Don't worry about these song rights.

• 1:10:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:10:53Joe Rogan?

  You'll have other songs in the future.

• 1:10:55Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:10:56Joe Rogan?

  That will be even better.

• 1:10:57Speaker 02

  Fucking A.

• 1:10:58Joe Rogan?

  Bet on yourself, Marcus. Take the money, don't you want a big house? Don't you want a fancy car? You need a Rolex.

• 1:11:10Speaker 02

  Have you ever seen Late Night with the Devil?

• 1:11:12Joe Rogan?

  Uh, yes.

• 1:11:14Speaker 02

  That was fucking good.

• 1:11:14Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's the talk show?

• 1:11:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:11:16Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that is great, man. Who made that?

• 1:11:19Speaker 02

  Uh, that's a good question.

• 1:11:22Joe Rogan?

  That's a really good movie, man.

• 1:11:23Speaker 02

  We watched it on the bus one night, I was like, whoa.

• 1:11:26Joe Rogan?

  That was like 2019 or something?

• 1:11:28Speaker 02

  It was heavy.

• 1:11:30Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, this was, uh, twenty twenty four. Oh, it's an Australian movie. Uh, Jack Delroy, the host of a failing, it's in nineteen seventy seven, Jack Delroy, the host of a failing late night show decides decides to film a Halloween special. However, the broadcast takes a dark turn, unleashing evil into the nation's living rooms. Yeah, it's a dope movie. It's really fun.

• 1:11:51Speaker 03

  It was good.

• 1:11:51Joe Rogan?

  It's fucking scary shit, too.

• 1:11:53Speaker 03

  It was scary.

• 1:11:53Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it was good. Bro, you know what's fucking scary as shit and really good? That I just found out about but from my daughter. There's a a new show called, well, it's not even new. It's like four seasons. It's called From.

• 1:12:08Speaker 03

  From?

• 1:12:09Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:09Speaker 03

  What's it on? Is it on like a?

• 1:12:11Joe Rogan?

  It's on Apple TV. I don't know if it's an Apple show. But it's on Apple TV. It's with the dude from Lost. One of the dads from Lost.

• 1:12:20Speaker 03

  Harold Perrin. Lost was a good fucking show.

• 1:12:25Joe Rogan?

  He's been in a lot of things.

• 1:12:26Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:12:26Joe Rogan?

  He's great. And the show is fucking terrifying. It it's it's very original and very weird. Um, so it came out in twenty twenty two. Interesting.

• 1:12:39Speaker 03

  First season premiered on Epix.

• 1:12:40Joe Rogan?

  Oh, okay. What's it on now? Is it just on Apple TV?

• 1:12:49Speaker 03

  Release Epix MGM Plus.

• 1:12:53Joe Rogan?

  Uh, so it says in two thousand eighteen YouTube Red. Remember we were talking about YouTube Red?

• 1:12:59Speaker 03

  Canada Elliot's on Paramount Plus, India's on Amazon Prime.

• 1:13:03Joe Rogan?

  Oh, it's on all over the place. Huh?

• 1:13:06Speaker 03

  Where MGM Plus is?

• 1:13:07Joe Rogan?

  So it appeared on Epix. I don't even know what MGM Plus is. Maybe that's just the company that's the production company. So in twenty twenty six, they renewed the series for a fifth and final season. It's fucking good, man. It's good and it's really scary. It's really scary and fucking creepy and horrific. It's about these people. That are stuck in this town that doesn't make any sense. Like, the town doesn't make any sense. And you can't get out of the town. And at nighttime, people come out of the woods, but they're not people. And they're like these monsters. And if you let them into your house, you can't let them into your house.

• 1:13:51Joe Rogan?

  But if you let them into your house, they'll butcher you and tear you apart. And people, they try to trick you in letting you, letting them into your house. Like, I'm not doing it justice. It's like, it sounds stupid, but...

• 1:14:05Speaker 02

  Here's the pitch.

• 1:14:06Joe Rogan?

  But it's, it's really scary, man. It's really scary and really creepy to the point like, I'm watching, I get anxiety. And I don't like watching shit like that before I go to bed. Because then I get like weird dreams and I start getting... Because it's like children are in trouble in it. And I'm a father, and when I see children in trouble, I get, I fucking freak out. You know, there's part of you, like, the sheepdog in you, just like...

• 1:14:28Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:14:28Joe Rogan?

  So it's, it's a good show, though.

• 1:14:30Speaker 02

  My wife gets on to me, I like, it's like forensic files.

• 1:14:34Joe Rogan?

  Oh.

• 1:14:35Speaker 02

  Puts me out. I love it.

• 1:14:37Joe Rogan?

  You like that before you go to bed?

• 1:14:39Speaker 02

  I don't know why.

• 1:14:39Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy.

• 1:14:41Speaker 02

  It's my comfort.

• 1:14:42Joe Rogan?

  How people murdered people?

• 1:14:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:14:44Joe Rogan?

  This episode is brought to you by Squarespace. If you're thinking about building a website, you should try Squarespace. I know because I use it. That's right, joe rogan dot com is powered by Squarespace. It has all the features that you need to create a standout website. Like an AI-enhanced website builder, SEO optimization tools, and seamless checkouts with mobile pay links. Head to Squarespace dot com slash rogan for a free trial. And when you are ready to launch, use the offer code ROGAN to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. It's football season and Uber Eats is delivering deals every game day. This week, buy a four-piece signature chicken from Popeyes

• 1:15:29Joe Rogan?

  and get another one free on Uber Eats. When your watch party gets hungry, order in and keep everyone's attention where it matters on the game. Order a four-piece signature chicken. From Popeyes and get another one free. No matter who scores big tonight, you'll score great deals on Uber Eats all season long. Because it's not football without food. Popeyes offer valid through November 1st. Add eligible menu item to order prior to checkout. Taxes, fees and terms apply. Product availability varies by region. Exclusions may apply. See app for details. I remember that show on HBO, The Autopsy Show. That was like one of the first ones.

• 1:16:12Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:16:12Joe Rogan?

  Do you know that show?

• 1:16:13Speaker 02

  The autopsy one?

• 1:16:14Joe Rogan?

  It was this guy, Dr. Michael Baden. And what he was was a forensic scientist that would catch people that had murdered people and got away with it. They would exhume bodies and find things and it was all these different cases of where someone had gotten away with murder. But then they discovered how they did it. It's very, very interesting.

• 1:16:36Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 1:16:36Joe Rogan?

  Because people are fucking weird, man. Like, you know, a lot of like wives poisoning their husbands. Like multiple husbands died of similar ways and.

• 1:16:46Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:16:47Joe Rogan?

  Nurses that poisoned the people under their care.

• 1:16:51Speaker 02

  There's some fucked up people out there.

• 1:16:53Joe Rogan?

  There's some fucked up people out there, man. And the crazy thing is they get away with it. That's the crazy thing is for every one that Michael Baden catches, how many of them get away with it?

• 1:17:05Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:17:06Joe Rogan?

  Like what percentages of murders in America go unsolved? Let's put this into perplexity.

• 1:17:14Joe Rogan?

  Our AI sponsor and find out what the deal. What do you think it is? What percentage of murders go unsolved in America?

• 1:17:20Speaker 02

  Uh, that's a good question.

• 1:17:23Joe Rogan?

  Take a guess.

• 1:17:26Speaker 02

  Fifty, sixty percent.

• 1:17:27Joe Rogan?

  Whoa.

• 1:17:28Speaker 02

  But I don't, I don't know how you would quantify it. I guess you'd find out.

• 1:17:32Joe Rogan?

  Well, someone gets murdered and they don't catch anybody.

• 1:17:35Speaker 02

  Oh, right, right. Okay.

• 1:17:36Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:38Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's half.

• 1:17:40Joe Rogan?

  Wow. So you're saying there's a chance?

• 1:17:43Speaker 02

  So you're saying there's a chance?

• 1:17:46Joe Rogan?

  Approximately forty to fifty percent of murders in the United States go unsolved. Means that roughly half of all homicide cases do not result in arrest or resolution.

• 1:17:55Joe Rogan?

  So, uh, I was talking to somebody and, um, someone who lives in their community got arrested because the wife went missing and, uh, they got the wife's DNA from this guy's chainsaw. They have no body, they have no evidence, other than there's some DNA on his chainsaw. And, you know, he's playing stupid, so he's in jail now, but everybody that knows him and like, like, these, these friends of mine, they know the family. They knew him, they knew her.

• 1:18:31Speaker 02

  Oh shit.

• 1:18:31Joe Rogan?

  And he's just in jail and they don't know if they have enough evidence to convict him. And so he's been in jail for a while now and they're trying to gather enough evidence for trial, but all they have is like DNA. Uh, I don't even know what that means. Like, how much DNA? Like, did he clean the chainsaw and not do a good job? I don't know what that means, but...

• 1:18:52Speaker 02

  Was she like out, like, trimming edges?

• 1:18:55Joe Rogan?

  Who knows? That's the thing. It's like you could use a chainsaw and accidentally scratch yourself. Like, you don't even have to cut yourself. It doesn't even have to be on. Like, if you're move, if you're, you know, taking a cha- I don't know why the wife would be taking a chainsaw out into the...

• 1:19:12Speaker 02

  I mean...

• 1:19:12Joe Rogan?

  Some women are capable and they do it, but...

• 1:19:14Speaker 02

  My wife, you know, she would.

• 1:19:16Joe Rogan?

  Accidentally scraped your arm-

• 1:19:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:19:18Joe Rogan?

  -with this chainsaw and they went over every blade with a swab.

• 1:19:24Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:19:24Joe Rogan?

  They probably could find your DNA and go, "Oh my god, you did it."

• 1:19:27Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:19:28Joe Rogan?

  I don't know. I don't know what happened, but apparently these people that I know believe that the husband chopped this lady up.

• 1:19:36Speaker 02

  Oh, really?

• 1:19:37Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, they think he did it. They're fighting a lot and...

• 1:19:42Speaker 02

  I remember when I was a kid, my sister used to... And like, Shane's actually got a really funny bit about how diabolical older sisters are and just, my sister used to say, "I hope you go to jail for something you didn't do."

• 1:19:55Joe Rogan?

  Whoa.

• 1:19:56Speaker 02

  "I hope you get rompily convicted for something and you're in jail forever."

• 1:19:59Joe Rogan?

  Jesus Christ.

• 1:20:00Speaker 02

  It's a terrible thing to say to somebody.

• 1:20:02Joe Rogan?

  What did you do to her to make her say that to you?

• 1:20:05Speaker 02

  Who fucking knows?

• 1:20:07Joe Rogan?

  That's so dark. I hope you go to jail for something you didn't do is so evil. Wow.

• 1:20:14Speaker 02

  We're very close now.

• 1:20:16Joe Rogan?

  Are you?

• 1:20:16Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:20:17Joe Rogan?

  Well, she was a kid.

• 1:20:18Speaker 02

  She, we were kids.

• 1:20:18Joe Rogan?

  How old was she when she did that? When she said that?

• 1:20:20Speaker 02

  She's two years older than me, so she must have been like nine or 10.

• 1:20:24Joe Rogan?

  Oh.

• 1:20:25Speaker 02

  But.

• 1:20:25Joe Rogan?

  People say things.

• 1:20:26Speaker 02

  Good stuff.

• 1:20:27Joe Rogan?

  At nine or 10, they're just being kids.

• 1:20:29Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:20:30Joe Rogan?

  That's a diabolical mind, though. Like, that's how you want someone to suffer? You want someone to emotionally suffer for something they didn't do forever?

• 1:20:37Speaker 02

  Her, her and a neighbor boy, there was a vacant house across from mine, and they like locked me in the back fence. And my sister was like, this is where you live now.

• 1:20:47Joe Rogan?

  Whoa.

• 1:20:48Speaker 02

  They were like, unless you break that window. And I was like, I don't want to break the window. And like, sure enough, like, they said, well, we're not letting you out of this gate. And I probably could have waited it out, but I was like five or six, so I just said, all right. So I took a brick to the window and they're like, well, we're gonna go tell on you now. I was like.

• 1:21:05Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:21:07Speaker 02

  Really fucked up.

• 1:21:08Joe Rogan?

  What the fuck does she do now?

• 1:21:10Speaker 02

  Uh, my sister's actually, she's a badass, man. She's, uh, she drives for the Department of Transportation. Um, she's got her CDL. She's a hoarse.

• 1:21:19Joe Rogan?

  Sounds, uh, like she has some devious thoughts in her mind.

• 1:21:23Speaker 02

  She's, yeah.

• 1:21:24Joe Rogan?

  Sounds like she should write books.

• 1:21:26Speaker 02

  I know, she's so smart.

• 1:21:27Joe Rogan?

  That sounds very creative.

• 1:21:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:21:29Joe Rogan?

  You know, like, she's manipulating a five-year-old into breaking a window so she could tell on him.

• 1:21:34Speaker 02

  But as a seven-year-old.

• 1:21:35Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:36Speaker 02

  No, she's, she's awesome, but, uh, actually, I had a good friend, I told that story to, and she loved it so much, she got me a, a welcome mat from my house that said, this is where you live now.

• 1:21:52Joe Rogan?

  That's fucked up, man.

• 1:21:53Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:21:53Joe Rogan?

  Where did she learn that kind of behavior?

• 1:21:56Speaker 02

  Probably my mom.

• 1:21:57Joe Rogan?

  Oh, was your mom like that?

• 1:21:58Speaker 02

  My mom was pretty wild, yeah.

• 1:22:01Joe Rogan?

  Yeah?

• 1:22:01Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:22:03Joe Rogan?

  Boy.

• 1:22:03Speaker 02

  Yep. I had an interesting upbringing.

• 1:22:07Joe Rogan?

  Most artists do.

• 1:22:11Joe Rogan?

  Especially most interesting artists. I don't know a lot of interesting artists that say like, my childhood was perfect. It was amazing. There was so much love and everybody was really supportive and understanding.

• 1:22:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:22:22Joe Rogan?

  We talked a lot about stuff and.

• 1:22:24Speaker 02

  Yep, spoke about our feelings mostly around the dinner table.

• 1:22:27Joe Rogan?

  No, there's, there's always some sort of element of psychological torture involved.

• 1:22:33Speaker 02

  Or some kind of abandonment or some kind of

• 1:22:36Joe Rogan?

  Sometimes

• 1:22:37Speaker 02

  Tetchy uncle, whatever it is.

• 1:22:38Joe Rogan?

  Yep, something, ignoring you, yeah. Just not making you a priority, making you not feel special, or making you feel like you're a burden. Something, something that causes you to like, want exorbitant amounts of attention from strangers.

• 1:22:53Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 1:22:53Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:22:55Joe Rogan?

  But look, that's where the great stuff comes from, which is really wild. Like, there's this concept that you cannot have good without evil. And I think there's something to that. I think it's just part of the human condition. For whatever reason. You, you don't appreciate good unless you've experienced bad, which is why rich kids are fucked. You grow up rich with everything you've ever wanted, there's no struggle. It's so difficult for those people to ever be exceptional. Because they don't have the motivation, they don't have that, they haven't experienced the bad, not in that way. Like, I remember, I went on a hunting trip with my friend Steve Vernella and Brian Callen.

• 1:23:40Joe Rogan?

  We went to Alaska and it rained every day. It rained like six days and we were soaking wet. And we came back to LA and it was sunny and I was driving my car and I had to call my friend Steve and I said, "Dude, I have never been happier. The sun hits my face, I'm so appreciative, I'm so, and I've never felt like this." Like, it's always like this in LA.

• 1:24:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:24:04Joe Rogan?

  But it never meant anything to me. It was just, "Yep, another day in LA, gotta go to work." But this one day, I was like, just filled with gratitude and I was so happy. The sun on my face felt so good and warm and, and I realized like, oh, you have to suffer in order to really appreciate the good. Like, if it's just all good, you're, you're not gonna appreciate it. You don't, you need evil people so that you really appreciate the people that are beautiful and that you love.

• 1:24:36Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:24:37Joe Rogan?

  You need people that suck so you appreciate people that are kind.

• 1:24:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:24:41Joe Rogan?

  You know, you need people that are mean so you appreciate the ones that are nice.

• 1:24:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, just people that are on the level, just people that are Like no agenda, just, just kind people. And it is that duality that kind of gives you perspective. That's what I meditate on every day is perspective.

• 1:24:59Joe Rogan?

  That's why I wonder about the music business. And then even the comedy business, I think kind of any business, I'm sure it's the same with the music, uh, mo- rather, uh, movie making business as well. It's like, you almost need these rotten vampire cunts that are, you know what I mean? It's like, so you-

• 1:25:16Speaker 02

  Another punk band.

• 1:25:19Joe Rogan?

  But so that, like, when you see fellow musicians that you love, like, you give them a hug, like, you embrace each other, like, ah, we're cool. Like, you know what I mean? It's like, we're together now, it's alright, we're okay.

• 1:25:30Speaker 02

  It's trauma bonding.

• 1:25:31Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, we're away from the cunts. We're away from the vampire cunts.

• 1:25:35Speaker 02

  It's like, my boy Charlie Crockett, you know, um, Charlie always says, like, you can do what they do, but they can't do what you do.

• 1:25:43Joe Rogan?

  Hmm, Charlie's great.

• 1:25:45Speaker 02

  He's a fucking man.

• 1:25:46Joe Rogan?

  He's an interesting dude, too. Very interesting dude, very, you know, interesting life, like, the life that that guy had and playing street music for so long and finally getting discovered. Very. Like, again, but that's how you get a person like that. When you talked about his childhood, how fucked up it was and crazy, he was basically just on his own from the time he was a teenager. Just running around, just singing songs.

• 1:26:13Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:26:14Joe Rogan?

  You know, like, that's how you get a person like that.

• 1:26:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, you can't create a Charlie Crockett in a lab.

• 1:26:21Joe Rogan?

  No, or a Jelly Roll. You don't, you don't create those in a lab, they gotta go to jail first. You know what I mean?

• 1:26:29Joe Rogan?

  But it's like, I mean, Jelly's like, one of the most beautiful people I've ever met in my life. He's the, one of the nicest, sweetest, kindest, warm, affectionate people. Everybody hugs everybody, tells everybody he loves them, and he means it. And, cause he's been through hell, you know? And that's, that's how you make a person like that.

• 1:26:49Speaker 02

  Jelly's in like a constant state of like, like when you run into somebody after they've had an ayahuasca experience.

• 1:26:56Joe Rogan?

  Mm hmm, yeah.

• 1:26:58Speaker 02

  He has this constant like gratitude.

• 1:27:01Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 1:27:02Speaker 02

  That I feel like kind of fades even with people who have like ayahuasca journeys or experiences.

• 1:27:08Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:08Speaker 02

  You know, he's just, I don't know, there's something really pure to that.

• 1:27:13Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, he's maintained it, especially now that he's on this like health journey. I think that sometimes the momentum of life takes over and you kind of forget those beautiful moments. You're grounded in these moments where you realize like, God, I'm so lucky to have a beautiful family that I love and friends that I love and be able to do what I do for a living. God, I'm so lucky. And that feeling like sometimes it goes away because you're dealing with this and that and contracts and fucking then New York Times wrote a hit piece on you, oh shit, and you forget. You lose your perspective. But I almost feel like you need all those other shitty elements to just reinforce the

• 1:27:57Joe Rogan?

  good elements, that there's this constant sort of mechanism that's going on where there's this constant process of pros and cons, of negatives and positives, and they're duking it out to see who rises. And the more the negative comes at you, the more it has this creative desire inside of you to excel with your music or your art or whatever it is that you do, to just push past it.

• 1:28:24Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 1:28:25Joe Rogan?

  I mean, think about some of the great songs that people have written just about the struggles that they've gone through, just even in the music business, you know?

• 1:28:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:28:34Joe Rogan?

  Like Lynyrd Skynyrd, Working for MCA. You know, there's a lot of those songs like that, where it's just like people just want to tell you what the fuck they've been through.

• 1:28:43Speaker 02

  Yeah. Uh, La Chique, uh, Freak Out.

• 1:28:48Joe Rogan?

  What's that about?

• 1:28:49Speaker 02

  They weren't, uh, like, they weren't allowed to get into Studio 54, they wouldn't let them in. And the song was originally written as fuck you, you know?

• 1:29:01Speaker 02

  Fuck you.

• 1:29:02Joe Rogan?

  Oh, really?

• 1:29:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:29:03Joe Rogan?

  Instead it's Freak Out?

• 1:29:04Speaker 02

  Yeah. And that ended up being a major hit, you know?

• 1:29:08Joe Rogan?

  That was because they couldn't get into a club?

• 1:29:10Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:29:10Joe Rogan?

  That's pretty crazy.

• 1:29:11Speaker 02

  Pretty crazy.

• 1:29:12Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:13Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:29:15Speaker 02

  But it is just about threading that needle of like wanting more for yourself, but for the right reasons. And that's something that I think about every day, it's just like having a virtuous reason to want more, you know? Not just for the sake of having it, or for hoarding wealth or anything like that, it's like, I want to work to where I can get to a place where, you know, my wife and I can have our own bus and raise kids on the road, you know? But you can't do that unless you have a certain profit margin on the road, you know? So I'm always kinda trying to think of like virtuous causes to want more, you know? Cause in reality, you know, I should be grateful for everything that I do have.

• 1:29:56Speaker 02

  But also, speaking of that, you know, and trying to meditate on the things that I'm grateful for every day.

• 1:30:04Joe Rogan?

  That's a good perspective. I think people get trapped in working towards a result, instead of thinking about the process.

• 1:30:14Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:30:14Joe Rogan?

  I try to be process oriented, I try to like think about whatever I'm doing, just try to be better at it and do a better job at it. And I think the other stuff sort of takes care of itself. If you have the right people. And that's where the evil cunt vampires come in, cause they'll steal all that goodwill. Like if you leave the door open, like on that TV show on From, you let them in.

• 1:30:39Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:30:40Joe Rogan?

  They'll fucking tear you apart.

• 1:30:41Speaker 02

  They'll tear you up.

• 1:30:42Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:44Speaker 02

  Just, and it's hard because you don't want to become jaded.

• 1:30:47Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:30:48Speaker 02

  You don't want to become like...

• 1:30:51Speaker 02

  I feel like I meet a lot of people out there who like they're open and they're kind, but they're not interested in making any new friends, you know?

• 1:30:58Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:30:58Speaker 02

  It's like they have their circle. And on one hand, I kind of understand that. I get that, you know? But it's it's hard. You know, you gotta maintain a certain level of perspective not to become like angry.

• 1:31:12Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Yeah, it's hard. And it's hard to know who you can let into your circle, too. Like, you gotta give people a stress test.

• 1:31:22Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 1:31:22Joe Rogan?

  You know what I mean?

• 1:31:23Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:31:24Joe Rogan?

  It's almost like you have to give them a baggie and then have a fake cop. Grab them and say, where'd you get? Marcus King gave it to me. Oh, gotcha, bitch.

• 1:31:37Speaker 02

  I ran into this guy recently and, um,

• 1:31:42Speaker 02

  basically what happened was like I was on jam cruise years ago. And I was super fucked up. And I was supposed to sit in with this band called Naughty Professor from New Orleans. And they're like-

• 1:31:52Joe Rogan?

  That's a great name.

• 1:31:52Speaker 02

  They're so good. And they're just outrageously talented musicians. And I had gone out on an adventure that morning on a catamaran. I didn't know what the fuck a catamaran was. I didn't know if it was land, air, or sea vessel, right? So we go out there. Turns out it's a boat. And, uh, we go like snorkeling in the Cayman Islands. And we're just like looking at all the fish. And like my girlfriend at the time and a bass player friend of mine from a band called Lettuce. His name's Jesus. So out there with my girlfriend at the time and Jesus-

• 1:32:24Joe Rogan?

  His name is Jesus?

• 1:32:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:32:25Joe Rogan?

  Not Jesus?

• 1:32:26Speaker 02

  Well, his name's Eric, but he goes by Jesus.

• 1:32:28Joe Rogan?

  Oh, boy, Eric. Oh, boy. How did Eric get in your circle?

• 1:32:33Speaker 02

  I don't think it's a Messiah complex or anything. I think it's just a nickname that stuck. But they were tripping on acid and I was drunk on rum and beer. And, um, just out there waiting and like when we came up for air, the boat had, or we had drifted. Quite a ways from the boat and like we couldn't get their attention. And like the waves started crashing and like a storm started rolling in.

• 1:32:58Joe Rogan?

  Oh, fuck.

• 1:32:59Speaker 02

  Waves and like, you know, I'm not the strongest swimmer, you know, but we were, we were basically, you know, we were treading water out there for like forty minutes.

• 1:33:07Joe Rogan?

  Holy shit, dude.

• 1:33:09Speaker 02

  You know, we were, we were gonna drown and finally the dude jumped off the boat and came out there. And then he was like yelling at me because I didn't have flippers on. So I was just out there with just my shorts on and some goggles. And, uh, he signaled for the boat to come around and they pulled us up out of the water. So after that, we were celebrating our life, you know? So I got completely hammered and then I was on the boat and I was like, well, I need a pick me up, you know? Cause I gotta sit in with these guys and they're like college educated, like jazz musicians. So, uh, this guy comes over, he's like, hey, man, you need a Yatouzki? And I was like, yeah, open me up.

• 1:33:51Speaker 02

  And he pulled out a spoon and he digs it down in the bag and I go to take it and it's like a small little mountain. I was like, give me a little more and he gave me some more and big snort, my whole face went numb. And I was like, and it stung and I was like, whoa, what the fuck was that? And he was like, ah, dude, just a little blow. And I was like, no, it wasn't. And like, he said, yeah, it was. And I grabbed him by the shirt and I said, what the fuck did you give me, motherfucker? And, um, he looked at his buddy like, well, I had, he had, had him, you know, like this. And he said, hey, what bag did you give me, bro? And he was like, the blue one. And he's like, oh no. And he looked at me and I was like, what was it? And he's like, it's ketamine.

• 1:34:32Joe Rogan?

  Oh.

• 1:34:33Speaker 02

  So I went totally the wrong direction. But I ran into that guy at the Grand Ole Opry and he came into my dressing room and was like, hey, remember me? Wrong bag. I was like, yeah, I remember you.

• 1:34:48Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I don't like you.

• 1:34:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, you kinda put me in a weird spot.

• 1:34:53Joe Rogan?

  What was that like, taking ketamine after you almost died?

• 1:34:56Speaker 02

  Man, it was heavy, you know? Um, I basically like, from what I recall, like I became part of the boat.

• 1:35:09Speaker 02

  That's how I remember it. Like, my feet were like in the deck, you know? And like, I was moving the whole boat with every step that I took. That's what I remember.

• 1:35:21Joe Rogan?

  Whoa.

• 1:35:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:35:24Speaker 02

  But there was this one guy that kept trying to get me to come play a festival in like New Mexico. And I kinda put him off the whole week. And then he ran into me and like, I just remember his eyes getting big like saucers. I don't know what I said to him, but it was some crazy shit.

• 1:35:42Speaker 02

  Or it wasn't English at all, probably.

• 1:35:45Joe Rogan?

  This episode is brought to you by the Mosquito Bowl. Here's a story that's pretty incredible. After Pearl Harbor, four of the best college football players in America walk away from promising NFL careers to enlist in the Marines and fight in World War II. And the craziest part, it's a true story. These guys had their whole lives ahead of them, but traded the glory of the gridiron for the brutal reality of combat, where the stakes were life and death. Directed by Peter Berg, the guy behind Friday Night Lights, and starring Nicholas Galatzin, Bill Skarsgård, Ray Nicholson, and Tom Francis. The Mosquito Bowl, in theaters October 30th.

• 1:36:26Joe Rogan?

  Part of living a healthier lifestyle means being extra careful of what you put into your body. AG1 Pro gets that. Their formula was carefully crafted with vitamins, probiotics, and superfoods your body needs, plus enhanced support for your workout and recovery, including creatine. In fact, AG1 Pro contains five grams of Creavitalis, high-quality, German-made creatine monohydrate, and that matters. This Creavitalis is made in Germany under tight quality control and is 99.9% pure. So you're not getting some cheap version cut with fillers. If you want a high-quality supplement

• 1:37:06Joe Rogan?

  made with the right stuff, AG1 Pro is a no-brainer. Go to drinkag1.com/joe for a limited time. Get a free immune support bundle, including a bottle of Omega 3 Fish Oil and Vitamin D tossed in with your first subscription order of AG1 Next Gen or AG1 Pro, backed by a 90-day money-back guarantee. That's drinkag1.com/joe. Ketamine talk. Ketamine's a weird one, man. Cause there's a lot of people that are doing that right now for therapy.

• 1:37:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:37:42Joe Rogan?

  Like Neil Brennan, a comedian, the co-creator of The Chappelle Show. He was the first person to tell me about it, cause Neil's had depression problems most of his life. And, um, we were in LA. And he said, we were in the hallway of the Comedy Store, he goes, I've been doing ketamine therapy for depression. And I go, how's that working out? Is it good? He goes, yeah, yeah, yeah, but I didn't know what to expect. He goes, I thought, oh, you know, it's in a doctor's office, it's probably gonna be just, I'm probably just gonna close my eyes and I'll feel, he goes, no. He goes, it's fucking a full-blown trip. He goes, tripping balls in a doctor's office is fucking strange.

• 1:38:24Speaker 02

  I bet.

• 1:38:25Joe Rogan?

  He said it worked though, for a little while. Like, he's done a bunch of different things. He did a ton of ayahuasca. He's done a bunch of ketamine. He, he did like magnets on his brain, I think. He's did like a bunch of different things to try to like rewire the way his brain works.

• 1:38:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:38:40Joe Rogan?

  Like, whatever it is.

• 1:38:41Speaker 02

  That's a, that's a journey I'm on, you know? I'm on antidepressants and I, I wanna get off them.

• 1:38:48Joe Rogan?

  Which ones are you on?

• 1:38:49Speaker 02

  I'm on Cymbalta.

• 1:38:51Joe Rogan?

  What does that one do?

• 1:38:53Speaker 02

  Well.

• 1:38:53Joe Rogan?

  Is it an SSRI?

• 1:38:54Speaker 02

  Yeah. So it basically just kind of a, it's for a chemical imbalance, you know? But, like, the best work that I did to combat my depression and anxiety and stuff was microdosing, you know, mushrooms.

• 1:39:10Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:39:11Speaker 02

  Like, that's, that's the most progress that I'd seen in my life. And, um, I'm gonna figure out some kind of strategy because, you know, like being on antidepressants and them telling you like, whoa, don't just stop taking them all at once, or you know, you could have seizures and shit. I'm like, I don't like that. I don't wanna be like... You know, enslaved by a drug, by a pharmaceutical drug, you know?

• 1:39:39Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I'm.

• 1:39:40Speaker 02

  And it's like also like now you just take this the rest of your life. It's like, what's the end result here?

• 1:39:47Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, Theo Von's going through the exact same thing. And last time I was on the podcast, he was explaining it to me. It freaks me out because I know Theo's had conversations before, like even publicly. He had a Netflix taping and it didn't go well. It was like they actually never, they shelved it. They never used it. You know, there was all these stories from people that were there saying he bombed. I think he just had a kind of a breakdown. And then he was talking to the crowd and there's a video of it. We said, you know, the people were shaking, hey, we still love you. He goes, thank you. Look, I'm just, I'm trying not to take my own life. That's what I'm trying to do right now. And like you hear stuff like that and you just go like, oh, Jesus Christ. I've known too many people that I didn't think were going to kill themselves and then did.

• 1:40:32Joe Rogan?

  And then he goes down these spirals where he starts talking about world events and freaking out. I'm like, oh, Jesus Christ, like I gotta help this dude. And so I send him things about people getting off of them. And apparently there's some doctors that specialize in getting people off of them. But here's the thing about that chemical imbalance thing. That's not real. They, they used to think that that was what these things do, that they treated a chemical imbalance. But then recently, studies have shown that that is not what they do. They don't exactly know what they do. And they kind of numb you in some sort of a way that helps some people. And I've had some friends and I don't, you know, I don't want to make any blanket statements

• 1:41:16Joe Rogan?

  because I've had some friends that were suicidal. Ari's one of them. And he got on SSRIs and it helped him. He got on, he tried a bunch of different ones, found one that worked, got on track. And then his career started taking off. And then as his career started taking off, he started feeling much better. He was on a good, positive path in his life. And then he slowly weaned himself off of those and now he's off of them. So I think that might have saved his life.

• 1:41:48Joe Rogan?

  I also know other people that have been on their, on those things and taken their own lives, so I don't know, cause that's part of one of the side effects is suicidal ideation. It's one of the side effects. But see if you can find anything about the chemical imbalance not being true. The chemical imbalance reason for taking SSRIs. It's, they, they've measured like levels of dopamine, serotonin in people that take, it's not, that's not what it's doing. And they don't even exactly know why it works. And it's a huge business. That's part of the problem. And it's also part of the problem, these doctors are incentivized to prescribe people these things.

• 1:42:31Joe Rogan?

  I had a friend that went to a psychiatrist and was talking about their life and things not doing well, and immediately the doctor tried to prescribe him SSRIs. Right away, like right away, here's something that you're never gonna get off, I'm gonna give it to you right away, first meeting. And he was like, well, I don't mean, shouldn't I like try exercise? Shouldn't I try diet? Shouldn't I try just drinking water and, you know, like, I, I read something about like magnesium and red light therapy being far more effective than even SSRIs. There is no good evidence for the simple chemical imbalance like low serotonin that directly causes depression or automatically means someone should take an SSRI, but SSRIs do change

• 1:43:16Joe Rogan?

  brain chemistry in ways that can help some people. But, so for decades, depression was popularly explained as a serotonin imbalance in the brain. Large reviews of the research have not found convincing evidence that people with depression have consistently low serotonin or a specific measurable imbalance that explains their symptoms. Experts now describe the chemical imbalance story as an oversimplified or outdated way of explaining a much more complex condition. And here's the other thing about depression. It has to be.

• 1:43:53Joe Rogan?

  Connected to the state of your life. Like, if you have a terrible job, you're in a bad relationship, you have abusive parents, you know, and you live in a shitty neighborhood. Who, why, why would you be happy? Oh, I'm depressed. Oh, you need a pill. No, do you? Is that what you need?

• 1:44:12Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:44:12Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's quite possible that you're eating processed foods and you have all these other things that we talked about shitty life, shitty house, shitty job, shitty neighborhood, shitty parents. Maybe you just need to make your life positive. Like, figure out a way to get your life in a positive direction. They've shown that exercise is way more effective than antidepressants at, at actually helping people with depression.

• 1:44:37Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 1:44:38Joe Rogan?

  Just exercise, just fucking go on a nice long walk every day, do some cardio, you know, take a fucking yoga class. That's way better for people than these goddamn pills. But these doctors are financially incentivized to prescribe these things and they prescribe them and hand them out like candy. And again, I think for some people it helps them.

• 1:44:58Speaker 02

  And, and, and that's the issue, right? I mean, if it wasn't a financial incentive, I think it would be like, take these for six months, you'll be better, you know?

• 1:45:07Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:45:07Speaker 02

  It wouldn't be like,

• 1:45:08Joe Rogan?

  Forever.

• 1:45:09Speaker 02

  This is you now.

• 1:45:10Joe Rogan?

  Even six months, it's like, okay, how long does it take to get off them?

• 1:45:14Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:45:14Joe Rogan?

  Cause I know a guy who was on them and it took him a year and a half after he got off of them before he felt normal again. For a year and a half, he was fucked up. Cause he was on them for, I think he said he was on them for 10 years. And then for a year and a half, he got off of them. And it just took that long before he finally like balanced the ship out. Like whatever waves he had to go through for a year and a half. But he was like, whatever I'm doing, I am not going back on those goddamn pills. So he rode it out. And came out on the other end.

• 1:45:49Speaker 02

  It's fucked up too, because it's, it's hard to compare your experience to other people because everybody's brain chemistry is different.

• 1:45:56Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:45:56Speaker 02

  So you, you could have two people on the same medication, like you were, you know, saying earlier, like,

• 1:46:04Speaker 02

  it's hard to even quantify. Like I even talked to my own sister or like other family members about, you know, their depression and their, you know, mental health journeys. And, um, it's just, it's interesting to think like,

• 1:46:19Speaker 02

  You could say like, it's, it's hard to disprove it, you know what I mean? Cause somebody could be doing well on it. But it's also like, it takes two weeks for it to really get into your system. And I've, I, I had to try like three or four different ones before one really, I felt, felt like me, you know? Like even at my grandmother's funeral, like, I just felt nothing. I just felt numb. And like, I didn't notice it until I got into a situation where I was like, this woman raised me and I can't feel anything.

• 1:46:50Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:46:50Speaker 02

  And it wasn't until like, a heavy moment like that, that I was able to kind of have that perspective of like, I should be feeling something right now. So, I put those down. And then, uh, it was like two weeks later, I was having dinner with somebody and like this song came on that just brought all of it up. There was this melody, this Wayne Shorter melody that just uncorked everything. And I was just sobbing at the dinner table, you know?

• 1:47:19Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:47:22Joe Rogan?

  Um, what did you feel like before you took them? And what was wrong with the ones that you didn't stick with?

• 1:47:31Speaker 02

  Um, well, I don't know if it was a, a matter of like, maybe the dosage was too high and it was just kind of creating a block. Cause like, you gotta feel some emotions, right?

• 1:47:44Joe Rogan?

  So, how did you feel before you were taking them? Like what was, what was bothering you that you realized you needed to take something?

• 1:47:50Speaker 02

  Well, I think a lot of it had to do with just like substance abuse, but I was feeling really anxious and really suicidal. And, um, just really, really depressed, you know? And, um, just this overwhelming sense of dread every day. And just, also just a lot of helplessness, like just trying to go into different doctors and just like trying to figure out like, what the fuck is it that's gonna finally, you know, take this away? But also realizing like, I rely on that a little bit, you know, for what I do for a living.

• 1:48:28Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 1:48:29Speaker 02

  So there's kind of that, you know?

• 1:48:31Joe Rogan?

  Rely on the feelings of depression?

• 1:48:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, all that, you know, for writing and for creating.

• 1:48:38Joe Rogan?

  God, that's a fucking conundrum, man.

• 1:48:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, being fearful that it's gonna take your drive away. Because you don't have anything to create for. No substance, right? So.

• 1:48:50Speaker 02

  It's a. It is a strange battle. It's one that I still kinda deal with, but I'm just in a much better spot on the journey.

• 1:48:58Joe Rogan?

  So, which ones did you try? And what was wrong with the ones that you tried? They just numbed you up?

• 1:49:06Speaker 02

  This was like six years ago, so like twenty twenty.

• 1:49:12Speaker 02

  I can't remember the name of the specific medication. I'm sure I have a, an old bottle of it somewhere in my house, but.

• 1:49:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, I don't know. I just.

• 1:49:23Joe Rogan?

  But what did it do? It just made you too numb?

• 1:49:26Speaker 02

  Just made me feel numb.

• 1:49:27Joe Rogan?

  And then when you found one that worked, what did that do differently?

• 1:49:30Speaker 02

  So the one that I'm on now. I mean.

• 1:49:37Speaker 02

  Like if I go a day without it, like I, like the withdrawal symptoms are like fairly severe, just like headaches and just like complete like body tingling sensations and just like, it's really scary stuff. It's just.

• 1:49:52Speaker 02

  You know, so I'm, I'm gonna have to wean off of it slowly over time, like I already did.

• 1:49:57Joe Rogan?

  I wonder if ibogaine would help with that.

• 1:50:01Speaker 02

  Well, I mean, you know, it's like I was saying, like microdosing mushrooms was like the first thing that I actually felt some kind of lasting result. Like now, like when I get an anxiety attack or something, I can recognize it as something just coming from an outside force, you know, an energy that's not aligning with me. And I can recognize it, I can work through it, where like before I would just get a little overwhelmed, you know? But I think also just like not drinking and like having to socialize with people and having to have a little exposure therapy to like social interactions and life in general without just masking myself with drugs and alcohol. Has helped a lot too in that growth.

• 1:50:47Joe Rogan?

  So when you first started taking it, you, there's all the stuff that you're doing in terms of like abusing alcohol and substances and that which definitely causes you to feel like shit and. Definitely causes a lot of people to have like all sorts of angst and anxiety and it just fucks with you. This stuff alleviated that.

• 1:51:15Speaker 02

  What I'm on now?

• 1:51:16Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:51:16Speaker 02

  Uh, I mean, you know, it has.

• 1:51:20Joe Rogan?

  Kind of?

• 1:51:21Speaker 02

  And I'm afraid of like, you know, if I get off of it, are those emotions gonna come flooding back in, you know?

• 1:51:27Joe Rogan?

  So did it stop those emotions?

• 1:51:30Speaker 02

  It.

• 1:51:30Joe Rogan?

  This is all, by the way, why you were drinking, right? You're not drinking. And how long has it been since you've drank?

• 1:51:35Speaker 02

  Like a year and a half.

• 1:51:36Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 1:51:37Speaker 02

  But I mean, those, those emotions do come back every now and again.

• 1:51:41Joe Rogan?

  Even while you're on the stuff?

• 1:51:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:51:44Joe Rogan?

  Uh, but it significantly curbed them?

• 1:51:48Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:51:48Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:51:49Speaker 02

  But it's like, you know.

• 1:51:51Joe Rogan?

  At what price?

• 1:51:52Speaker 02

  I mean, I was talking to my boy Ernest about it, cause you know.

• 1:51:57Speaker 02

  Uh, he's kind of a kindred spirit and like, you know, just talking about like, I'll be working out and like. Getting after it, feeling good, listening to the Stones, whatever. And like, I noticed like. Uh, in my gym at my house, like, I guess they used to have a punching bag hanging up there. And just like, you see something like that and you just take a mental note of like, I could probably hold my weight, you know? It's just like these.

• 1:52:23Joe Rogan?

  Oh, you mean to hang yourself?

• 1:52:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, like these thoughts just kinda come, you know, and it's, I don't know where they come from. They just, they just pop in and as quick as they come, they go.

• 1:52:36Joe Rogan?

  And this is before you're taking the medication?

• 1:52:38Speaker 02

  No, I mean, this is like a month ago, you know?

• 1:52:41Joe Rogan?

  Okay, did the, did you have those thoughts before the medication?

• 1:52:44Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:52:46Joe Rogan?

  Okay, so they're still there?

• 1:52:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:52:48Joe Rogan?

  So whatever it's doing, it's doing a little bit?

• 1:52:51Speaker 02

  I mean, it, it's gotta be helping to a degree.

• 1:52:54Joe Rogan?

  Do you think it is?

• 1:52:55Speaker 02

  I think so, but I think it's, it's really just about like your will and like your, your mental. Just your ability, just like we were talking about like with diets and stuff, you know, like.

• 1:53:07Speaker 02

  Does Ozempic help curb, you know, appetites? But you could also just exercise and just have willpower. And I think mental health can be of a similar thing.

• 1:53:18Joe Rogan?

  One of the things that people are finding about Ozempic is it actually curbs your desire to be in love, too.

• 1:53:24Speaker 02

  Ugh.

• 1:53:24Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:53:25Speaker 02

  That's a nasty thought.

• 1:53:26Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. You don't enjoy anything.

• 1:53:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:53:30Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:53:31Speaker 02

  What I'm hearing about these SSRIs is like, uh, like genitalia, like paralyzed.

• 1:53:39Joe Rogan?

  I saw that.

• 1:53:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:53:40Joe Rogan?

  I saw that on Twitter. Some lady was talking about her. She got off of it and her clitoris is numb. She can't have orgasms anymore.

• 1:53:47Speaker 02

  That's fucked up.

• 1:53:49Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:53:50Speaker 02

  If that ever happens, like, you know.

• 1:53:54Joe Rogan?

  Well, the problem is I don't know if it comes back. So you can't wait for it to happen and like which medications cause it to happen.

• 1:54:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:54:01Joe Rogan?

  Um, if you do get off of it, have you talked to your doctor? Like, what is the protocol?

• 1:54:09Speaker 02

  Um, well, weaning off of it.

• 1:54:11Joe Rogan?

  Uh huh.

• 1:54:12Speaker 02

  My doctor always just says like, I don't know. He just, every time I talk to my doctor, it's like every few months we check in and he's like, well, yeah, how you feeling? You know, how you doing? Uh, and I'm like, well, I'm okay, you know? Just kind of feels like the same. Um, kind of want to get off of them. And he's like, well, you know, if you want to do that, like you're gonna have to go slowly over time. But, uh, you know, are things good? And I'm like, yeah, things are fine. He's like, well, you don't really want to change things if they're good, right? You know?

• 1:54:47Joe Rogan?

  Oh.

• 1:54:48Speaker 02

  That kind of thing.

• 1:54:51Joe Rogan?

  And you worry what?

• 1:54:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, I worry about what's gonna happen if I, you know.

• 1:54:55Joe Rogan?

  What's that gonna be like getting off of them? Cause the thing about it is like I was talking about this guy that was on it for 10 years. Like that year and a half was fucking rough. Where he was experiencing all sorts of problems because his body was just kind of in shock. That it be on, he'd been on SSRIs for a decade. And then all of a sudden he's off of them and he's like, like the way Theo described it is like the floor was missing. Like the floor fell out from under him.

• 1:55:24Speaker 02

  Getting off them?

• 1:55:25Joe Rogan?

  He got off them for a while and then got back on them. He got off them about a year ago for a little while and then got back on them. But he wants to get off them. He just doesn't know what to do. And.

• 1:55:36Speaker 02

  I mean, hell, it's like, it's, it's like a, it's literally a plot device, you know? Like the show The Ozarks, you know?

• 1:55:43Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:55:44Speaker 02

  Like the crazy brother.

• 1:55:45Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:55:46Speaker 02

  He's pouring his medication down the drain.

• 1:55:48Joe Rogan?

  Yep.

• 1:55:49Speaker 02

  And he goes fucking nuts, you know? It's like, somebody being off their medication is kind of a pejorative term, right?

• 1:55:56Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:55:57Speaker 02

  But I'm like, I kinda wanna get off mine.

• 1:56:00Joe Rogan?

  Well, it depends on what medication, right? Some people are schizophrenic.

• 1:56:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, if it's antipsychosis, I guess.

• 1:56:06Joe Rogan?

  If you've got psychosis. Have, do you exercise?

• 1:56:10Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:56:10Joe Rogan?

  What do you do?

• 1:56:12Speaker 02

  I usually do twenty minutes on the Peloton and then a different muscle group every day.

• 1:56:17Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that's good. That, anything cardio-wise is great for depression supposedly. And even weights, weights are supposedly really good for anxiety for some reason.

• 1:56:27Speaker 02

  I've noticed.

• 1:56:28Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:56:29Speaker 02

  There's a, there's a real definitive difference when I'm working out versus when I'm, when I'm not.

• 1:56:34Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Man. So like, do you have a strategy for when you're thinking about doing this or how you're gonna try to do this?

• 1:56:43Speaker 02

  Well, I was thinking I'd probably do it when I had some time off, but I'm working the rest of the year. But honestly, man, being on the road is kind of my, my constant. So I think it's something that I could probably accomplish while I'm on the road, but I'd hate to have like a breakdown.

• 1:57:02Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, fuck that. You're in Nashville about to do a show, you're like, I gotta cancel the show.

• 1:57:08Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:57:09Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:57:10Speaker 02

  So it's, it's, it's hard to determine, you know?

• 1:57:12Joe Rogan?

  It scares me, man, because, and again, it scares me because doctors incentivize to keep you on them. And promote them and get you to do them also, and they've been prescribing them for people that don't wanna ever think that they're doing something bad.

• 1:57:27Speaker 02

  There's a justification process in there somewhere.

• 1:57:29Joe Rogan?

  A hundred percent. Justification process, financial incentives, there's, there's a lot going on there. And then there's also this, um...

• 1:57:39Joe Rogan?

  This position that they're in of expertise, where they're explaining to you what you should and shouldn't do and how it works and when you're like, this is fucking up my whole life and I can't get off them, like, oh, just wait, wait, slow down, like, everything doing well, just keep, keep on the same path, Marcus, everything's fine, Marcus, bye, click, got a new patient calling.

• 1:57:59Speaker 02

  Oh, hi, Jenner, do you?

• 1:58:00Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's, it's very weird, man, it's very weird that our society is so hypermedicated.

• 1:58:06Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah, and injectables are the, the wave of the future. Even like, um, like, uh, my boy Chevy that works for me, he's, um, he used to work in pharmaceutical sales and he's like, everything is injectables now, because that's what's hot, because of like the Ozempic craze. So like, every medication is like peddling injectables. Because like, the, the wave of like peptides and Ozempic and all that kind of stuff, now it's like, it's trendy, which is really interesting to me.

• 1:58:41Joe Rogan?

  That is weird.

• 1:58:42Speaker 02

  Because I grew up with my dad having type 2 diabetes and, and my grandfather too, and, uh, you know, just seeing them inject like insulin and stuff, I was like, yuck.

• 1:58:52Joe Rogan?

  Well, type 2 diabetes, the thing about that one is, you can cure that.

• 1:58:58Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:58:58Joe Rogan?

  You just gotta stop eating like a pig. Which is crazy, I know a bunch of people that have stopped themselves from having type 2 diabetes.

• 1:59:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, and that, and that's, that's a goal that I'm on is preventing myself from ever dealing with that. I don't, I don't eat sugar or anything.

• 1:59:14Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that's awesome.

• 1:59:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, I gave up sugar.

• 1:59:16Joe Rogan?

  Well, again, the ketogenic diet is supposed to be good for depression too. Do you take supplements, are you taking magnesium and multivitamins and all that jazz?

• 1:59:26Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:59:26Joe Rogan?

  That's good. That seems like you're doing a lot of the right things, man.

• 1:59:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, man, I'm, you know, I just...

• 1:59:35Joe Rogan?

  Don't wanna be a prisoner to pills.

• 1:59:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, and I love my wife and I'm just excited to have some babies and just I wanna get myself like her career is taking off and my career is going really well and like.

• 1:59:48Joe Rogan?

  Does she take SSRIs?

• 1:59:50Speaker 02

  Uh-uh.

• 1:59:50Joe Rogan?

  No, that's good.

• 1:59:51Speaker 02

  She's very anti like any pharmaceuticals, which I really admire about her.

• 1:59:55Joe Rogan?

  I was just reading something about SSRIs and the development of children. Children's brains when women are pregnant and they're on SSRIs and apparently there's a bunch of issues. Yeah.

• 2:00:06Speaker 02

  I can see that.

• 2:00:07Joe Rogan?

  I mean, look, man, there's millions of people on those things. There's a giant business. And they wanna hide all the side effects and hide all the negative aspects of it and hide the impact that it does just to the overall psyche of the nation. When you've got, okay, let's just take a guess. How many people do you think in this country are on SSRIs? With liberal women, it's like eighty percent.

• 2:00:34Joe Rogan?

  And the other twenty percent need them. Well, like, what's the percentage of people on SSRIs in America? Let's guess.

• 2:00:43Speaker 02

  Man, I'd probably say like, I would go even higher. I'd say like sixty to seventy-five.

• 2:00:50Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 2:00:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:00:51Joe Rogan?

  Sixty to seventy-five percent of the country?

• 2:00:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:00:54Joe Rogan?

  Wow. I don't think it's that. I think it's under thirty.

• 2:00:58Speaker 02

  It's too many.

• 2:00:59Joe Rogan?

  It's too many.

• 2:01:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:01:00Joe Rogan?

  It's definitely too many, but there's also a bunch of people that are looking for a quick fix when there's a bunch of factors to why you don't feel happy, like we were talking about before. There's lifestyle, life choices, situation that is beyond your control. Like where you're born, where you live, the job that you have, like where you, you know, if you're in a place of limited opportunity and you got a bunch of shitty people around you and life sucks every day, it's hard to be happy. It's hard to not feel depressed. So then there's the question of like, how does one develop the tools to get out of that situation and get somewhere else? And for a lot of people, it's something that helps them break out. Whether it's starting a business or being a musician or an artist or something that gets you out of there.

• 2:01:44Joe Rogan?

  And then you start getting around more positive people and then you make more positive lifestyle choices. But you just can't expect to be happy if your life is shit.

• 2:01:55Joe Rogan?

  Thirteen percent.

• 2:01:56Speaker 02

  I was way off.

• 2:01:57Joe Rogan?

  American SSRI prescribing, but I bet in your business, that's why you think of it.

• 2:02:03Speaker 02

  Well, yeah, I mean.

• 2:02:04Joe Rogan?

  Artists, I bet it's a lot higher. Uh, thirteen percent of US adults report taking an antidepressant in any given thirty day period. SSRIs the most frequently used class within that group. Yeah, okay, so thirteen percent. So that's two thousand fifteen to two thousand eighteen though.

• 2:02:23Speaker 03

  I asked for an update for twenty twenty, it said it's about the same.

• 2:02:26Joe Rogan?

  For twenty twenty six?

• 2:02:27Speaker 03

  I mean, yes, I asked, is there any updates in twenty twenty and it basically said the same information.

• 2:02:32Joe Rogan?

  So about thirteen percent. Still a lot, one out of ten people on crazy pills is a lot.

• 2:02:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, in, in the arts community though.

• 2:02:42Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:02:43Speaker 02

  Like within the artist community. The last data that I remember reading was like seventy percent of like artists struggle with some faction of mental health. But, um.

• 2:02:55Joe Rogan?

  I, that makes sense.

• 2:02:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:02:57Joe Rogan?

  And then there's also the newest element that targets your mental health and goes after it, which is social media.

• 2:03:06Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:03:06Speaker 02

  That's a rough one, boy.

• 2:03:08Joe Rogan?

  That's a rough one. And so many people treat that as if it's no big deal, like you're just shooting heroin into your eyeballs every day with that stuff.

• 2:03:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, man.

• 2:03:15Joe Rogan?

  Not good. So many people are in there.

• 2:03:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:03:20Joe Rogan?

  All day, every day, and then reading a bunch of negative shit about them and getting angry and upset. And then.

• 2:03:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:03:26Joe Rogan?

  Carrying that weight around with them all day.

• 2:03:30Speaker 02

  It's, it's easy to say like, don't read comments, but it's easier said than done.

• 2:03:35Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Yeah, especially if you have it on your phone. That's the thing, like you gotta not have it on your phone. If you have it on your phone, you're gonna go to it, but then the problem is if you use it for touring and for posting information, keeping your fans engaged.

• 2:03:50Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:03:50Speaker 02

  Well, the algorithm also serves you like you you gotta engage.

• 2:03:54Joe Rogan?

  Mm hmm.

• 2:03:54Speaker 02

  That like anytime you talk to a social media group, they're like, what are your engagement levels like? Like, so they want you on the app using it.

• 2:04:02Joe Rogan?

  Mm hmm.

• 2:04:03Speaker 02

  Commenting, responding to people. Cause if you don't and you choose not to do that, then they're like, well, can we go on there for you? And like respond to comments or whatever. And I'm like, no, I don't want you punching in any bullshit. So I'm like, I want to be on there and be myself. And like, if this is a tool that I have to have, I want it to be me like authentically. But, you know, it's a necessary evil.

• 2:04:27Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but it it ruins so many people's brains.

• 2:04:30Speaker 02

  It rots you.

• 2:04:31Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it really does. And it's also you're absorbing so much negativity just from what's going on in the world. Like on any given day, if I open up Twitter and I just start reading what people are upset about. It's just like, oh, my God, the whole world is falling apart. Everyone's mad at everything and everyone and every little whatever fucking social issue, political issue, world issue, economic issue. Everyone's blaming everyone and everyone's pissed and and there's so many grifters and psychopaths that are just on there all day, using it, stirring up bullshit and fuck, man.

• 2:05:10Speaker 02

  I know.

• 2:05:12Speaker 02

  It's, um.

• 2:05:15Speaker 02

  Yeah. You think I could use bathroom?

• 2:05:18Joe Rogan?

  Fuck, yeah, we could use bathroom.

• 2:05:19Speaker 02

  We'll get into this.

• 2:05:20Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:05:20Speaker 02

  We've got a lot to say about social media.

• 2:05:21Joe Rogan?

  We're gonna pee, folks. We'll be right back. And we're back, ladies and gentlemen. Where were we? Depression, everything sucks. Stay off social media.

• 2:05:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:05:29Joe Rogan?

  Let's talk about music.

• 2:05:30Speaker 02

  Let's talk about some music.

• 2:05:31Joe Rogan?

  Damn, that's how how does it take so long?

• 2:05:34Speaker 02

  You seen that James Brown interview from the eighties? When he's got those big glasses on?

• 2:05:39Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:05:40Speaker 02

  I want to talk about some music.

• 2:05:42Joe Rogan?

  That fucking interview is amazing.

• 2:05:45Speaker 02

  It's the best.

• 2:05:46Joe Rogan?

  When he had just got arrested and.

• 2:05:48Speaker 02

  I'm out on love.

• 2:05:49Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Aren't you out on bail?

• 2:05:51Speaker 02

  I'm out on love.

• 2:05:52Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:05:54Speaker 02

  And he starts talking to the women in the thing, he's like, "Why is that ladies?"

• 2:05:58Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, no, it's hilarious.

• 2:06:00Speaker 02

  This is the best.

• 2:06:01Joe Rogan?

  Clearly high as fuck.

• 2:06:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, something going on there.

• 2:06:05Joe Rogan?

  James Brown was an original. When you first started doing music, how old were you?

• 2:06:11Speaker 02

  Um, man, I was probably like two or three years old when I started dealing with it, yeah.

• 2:06:16Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy.

• 2:06:18Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm. My grandfather played, my uncles, my dad still plays, you know?

• 2:06:24Joe Rogan?

  Wow. So were they professional, or they just did it for fun?

• 2:06:29Speaker 02

  My grandfather, so he was a career serviceman. He was in the air force, and he was a staff master sergeant. And he played hockey talks on the weekend. He was in charge of booking all the NCO clubs on the base. So he would book like Charlie Pride, or Johnny Cash, Barbara Mandrell, and his band would open up and then back them up.

• 2:06:50Joe Rogan?

  Oh, wow.

• 2:06:52Speaker 02

  So he was a country and western purist.

• 2:06:55Joe Rogan?

  Did you get a go at any of those shows when you were young?

• 2:06:57Speaker 02

  No, well, so this was, this was back in the 60s.

• 2:07:00Joe Rogan?

  Oh.

• 2:07:01Speaker 02

  My dad's 73, I think now. He was born in 53. And, um, I was born when my dad was like 43.

• 2:07:12Joe Rogan?

  Oh, wow.

• 2:07:12Speaker 02

  So by the time I came along, everybody was, you know, a lot of my family traded in like, I think they associated music with a lot of the secular lifestyle. So they kind of, when they all got born again and into the church, that's around the time I came around, you know? So the music was really associated with church, but I was really interested in that other stuff.

• 2:07:39Joe Rogan?

  Isn't that interesting? I wonder why there's a division.

• 2:07:43Speaker 02

  You know, I think about it a lot. I think that's the closest you can get to divinity, you know, is music, really.

• 2:07:53Speaker 02

  Allowing yourself to get that close to something. And the conviction that you feel in a church, you know, that's a good, common thing for everybody to get on the same level. And um.

• 2:08:09Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's part of the church experience, that everybody having it together, experiencing it together as a group. Being together live in a room with a great musician on stage when everyone's enjoying it together is very much a transcendent experience.

• 2:08:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:08:25Joe Rogan?

  It really is.

• 2:08:26Speaker 02

  It's like drinking the Kool-Aid, man.

• 2:08:27Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's like, there's a beautiful moment where you're all experiencing it together and you're all clapping and cheering. Or you're all dancing and singing along. It's a beautiful moment.

• 2:08:37Speaker 02

  It really is.

• 2:08:37Joe Rogan?

  Music is like a drug, man. It really is. It's like a beautiful drug. Like the right song when you're on the treadmill, you're like, fuck, yeah, you could just keep going, you know?

• 2:08:48Speaker 02

  Tear a door off the hinges.

• 2:08:50Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:08:51Speaker 02

  If I hear like Little Feet skin it back.

• 2:08:52Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 2:08:56Joe Rogan?

  There's certain songs that just give you fucking energy, man.

• 2:08:59Speaker 02

  Like Bitch by the Rolling Stones.

• 2:09:01Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:09:02Speaker 02

  That song, if I need a pick-me-up in the morning, that song comes on.

• 2:09:06Joe Rogan?

  A great weightlifting one is Prison Sex by Tool.

• 2:09:09Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah?

• 2:09:10Joe Rogan?

  Oh, you know that song?

• 2:09:11Speaker 02

  Tool's a band that I never really delved into.

• 2:09:14Joe Rogan?

  Oh, they got some.

• 2:09:15Speaker 02

  I know Danny Carey and um, I know them because of my buddy Brent Hines. Did you ever listen to Mastodon?

• 2:09:22Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 2:09:23Speaker 02

  Man, I gotta send you some, some choice cuts, but.

• 2:09:27Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 2:09:27Speaker 02

  Brent was, he was the fucking man. He, he just died back in September.

• 2:09:31Joe Rogan?

  Oh.

• 2:09:33Speaker 02

  I took him on the road right before that, which was.

• 2:09:36Joe Rogan?

  Oh, really?

• 2:09:37Speaker 02

  Which was messy.

• 2:09:38Joe Rogan?

  Oh, really?

• 2:09:40Speaker 02

  Brent, um, he and Mastodon kind of had a mutual agreement that he would leave the band. So he was doing his solo thing and like, he's one of my heroes, you know? And I was like, I'll take you out, sure. And like, he just threw it together somehow and then I ended up having to kick him off the tour, which like broke my heart, but he kind of forced my hand.

• 2:10:05Speaker 02

  The night in question, like I walked outside and he had this little tour manager named Angela. And she was crying and my, my tour manager was holding her and she was crying. I was like, fucking A, what happened now? She said, I walk into the dressing room and Brent pee on the floor.

• 2:10:27Speaker 02

  And I said, no, no, you have to stop. So then he pee in his mouth.

• 2:10:32Joe Rogan?

  Oh, Jesus Christ.

• 2:10:34Speaker 02

  And like I know.

• 2:10:37Speaker 02

  You just have to picture my boy just like pissing and she's like, you have to stop. And then he's like, oh.

• 2:10:42Joe Rogan?

  He pisses in his own mouth?

• 2:10:44Speaker 02

  And like, at his funeral, I told, I told, uh, Matt Pike from the sleep, I told him that story and he was like, yeah, like, and?

• 2:10:54Joe Rogan?

  Normal.

• 2:10:54Speaker 02

  He's like, it's a party trick.

• 2:10:56Joe Rogan?

  That's a Wednesday move.

• 2:10:58Speaker 02

  And I was like, yeah, no, it's hilarious, but it really offended her and she got very upset. And, um, the whole thing just fell apart and you know, that-

• 2:11:06Joe Rogan?

  That was the last straw?

• 2:11:08Speaker 02

  That was it.

• 2:11:08Joe Rogan?

  Pissing in his own mouth?

• 2:11:09Speaker 02

  That was what did it.

• 2:11:10Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 2:11:11Speaker 02

  But, you know.

• 2:11:13Joe Rogan?

  Get him some paper towels and let's fix this.

• 2:11:15Speaker 02

  I was ready to fix it, but like his whole band and crew, they were like, it's not working. So-

• 2:11:21Joe Rogan?

  What was he doing?

• 2:11:23Speaker 02

  He was just, just partying a little too much, you know? And I mean, I, I really, I loved that dude like a brother, you know, I miss him. Miss him a lot.

• 2:11:35Joe Rogan?

  Sometimes it takes a really wild, crazy, off the rails person to make music. Or make any kind of art that just moves you, drives you crazy.

• 2:11:44Speaker 02

  Yeah. I mean, he was a true artist, you know, like he, he was insane.

• 2:11:49Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:11:49Speaker 02

  And like, you gotta have friends that your wife doesn't particularly love you hanging out with.

• 2:11:55Joe Rogan?

  Right?

• 2:11:56Speaker 02

  There's something about that friend.

• 2:11:58Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's a lot of my friends.

• 2:12:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:12:02Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah, but those are the ones that make the magic.

• 2:12:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:12:07Joe Rogan?

  There's something to it. And again, that it is a magic thing. That the, you know, and this is coming from someone with no music. I have no talent. And so for me, like, watching it and experiencing it is a pure experience because I I'm not like, oh, I don't like how he played that chord. I don't like how I don't know anything about music. I just know I love it.

• 2:12:30Speaker 02

  I mean, Rick Rubin, you know, he's held on to that. He he wants to be, you know, and I think he has been like the, you know, the voice of like, the consumer. He he hears what the consumer wants to hear. And

• 2:12:47Joe Rogan?

  Well, he knows what he likes.

• 2:12:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:12:49Joe Rogan?

  And he's got a very interesting mind, you know, he's a very interesting person to talk to. His perspective on things is very unique. I like him a lot. Really like him a lot. I like talking to him a lot. He sends you the wildest text messages. He in text message.

• 2:13:09Joe Rogan?

  He sent me some fucking conspiracies that are often sometimes I have to say, hey, that's not real.

• 2:13:16Joe Rogan?

  But every now and then he'll send you some some ones that make you question reality.

• 2:13:21Speaker 02

  I like the thought of you talking Rick off of a ledge.

• 2:13:25Joe Rogan?

  Not necessarily cock him off a ledge, just letting him know that some of the, you know, it's it's hard to know what's real and what's not real out there in the world if you're not like deep into the bowels of conspiracy theory movement.

• 2:13:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:13:38Joe Rogan?

  You know?

• 2:13:39Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:13:39Joe Rogan?

  But again, a guy like Rick, like his sensibility, like he he has a it's like a very valuable position. Person just with a unique mind that is just helping shape how music gets produced and created. And because like whatever, whatever it takes, whatever it I mean, it's not a science, like a math thing or a it's not carpentry, like you have to level this and square that like, no, man, there's like some weirdness and there's love in there and hate in there. And there's, there's, there's a lot of stuff that is intangible. It's hard to describe like why this is better and why this is good. But

• 2:14:21Joe Rogan?

  when you hear it, you know, when you know, you know, you know, there's some riffs.

• 2:14:28Joe Rogan?

  You know, there's some riffs that just like, oh my God, like the beginning of Voodoo Child's Slight Return.

• 2:14:34Speaker 02

  Come on.

• 2:14:35Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, come on.

• 2:14:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:14:36Joe Rogan?

  Just the beginning, you hear it, you go, oh, yeah.

• 2:14:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, dude.

• 2:14:40Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:14:41Speaker 02

  I mean, Dan Auerbach's another one who's just-

• 2:14:43Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah, I love those guys.

• 2:14:45Speaker 02

  He perfected the riff.

• 2:14:46Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:14:47Speaker 02

  Josh Homme.

• 2:14:48Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:14:48Speaker 02

  From the Stone Age.

• 2:14:49Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:14:52Joe Rogan?

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• 2:15:34Joe Rogan?

  per session with insurance. Don't have insurance or live outside of the United States? You can still get 10% off your first month. Visit betterhelp.com to explore your payment options. That's better H E L P dot com. This episode is brought to you by SimpliSafe. Stuff can always be replaced, but your loved ones, a sense of security, those are priceless and often overlooked in security systems, but not with SimpliSafe. In fact, they have a pretty interesting and smart approach, taking action before the worst can happen, instead of after. Their smart cameras can alert real agents to any threats and those agents can take action immediately. That's

• 2:16:15Joe Rogan?

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• 2:16:44Speaker 02

  You know- Rick's a funny one, man. I love his philosophy on music, too. He just, he looks at it the same way that Colonel Bruce Hampton looked at it. Colonel Bruce Hampton and Rick both believed that music is like pro wrestling, you know?

• 2:16:58Joe Rogan?

  Is Colonel Bruce Hampton the Colonel from Elvis?

• 2:17:01Speaker 02

  Different Colonel.

• 2:17:02Joe Rogan?

  Different Colonel. Who's Colonel Bruce Hampton?

• 2:17:04Speaker 02

  Colonel Bruce Hampton, he was kind of like, um, so Billy Bob Thornton put him in a movie in Sling Blade. Um, he was, I can't remember his name in the film, but yeah, Colonel Bruce Hampton, there he is. He died on stage at the Fox Theater.

• 2:17:18Joe Rogan?

  Wow, in Detroit?

• 2:17:20Speaker 02

  No, in Atlanta.

• 2:17:22Joe Rogan?

  Oh, okay.

• 2:17:23Speaker 02

  Uh, his story is he was born with two birth certificates. Um, he was just a wild man. He was just, he was all about, like, instead of instruction, he called it out-struction. And like, Billy Bob worked on a documentary about him in like 2003. Um, and he was just, like, his whole philosophy on music and just like why we do it and just pointing out the hilarity of like the business and like the coffee getters, as he referred to them. You know, we have a whole industry built around coffee getters now, you know? All the people that got the suits, their lattes and stuff in the morning, now they're calling the shots. And that's a, that's a weird place to be. But Colonel Bruce Hampton, I, you know, I

• 2:18:07Speaker 02

  just, what I do now is I just buy copies of, uh, his documentary, Basically Frightened, and I just give it to people who aren't hip to the knowledge. So I'll, I'll send a copy down here.

• 2:18:20Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's called Frightened?

• 2:18:21Speaker 02

  It's called Basically Frightened.

• 2:18:23Joe Rogan?

  Basically Frightened.

• 2:18:24Speaker 02

  Colonel Bruce Hampton's story, yeah.

• 2:18:25Joe Rogan?

  Is it available anywhere? Like, is it on Apple or Amazon or?

• 2:18:29Speaker 02

  It's not streaming anywhere.

• 2:18:30Joe Rogan?

  No?

• 2:18:31Speaker 02

  So I just, I just collect the DVDs when I can find them.

• 2:18:34Joe Rogan?

  Oh, wow. Is it, can you buy a DVD anywhere? Like, if people are listening to this and they want to get a hold of it?

• 2:18:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, like eBay.

• 2:18:41Joe Rogan?

  That's the only way?

• 2:18:42Speaker 02

  That's, that's the only place I've found them.

• 2:18:44Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 2:18:45Speaker 02

  Yeah. And you'll be bidding against me.

• 2:18:47Joe Rogan?

  You just keep buying copies of it?

• 2:18:49Speaker 02

  I, yeah. Every time I give one away, I buy another copy.

• 2:18:53Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 2:18:55Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 2:18:56Speaker 03

  Here's a final thread on Reddit, people looking for it, and someone's like, "Just mail me the DVD and I'll copy it for you." Like, can't find it anywhere.

• 2:19:04Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 2:19:06Speaker 02

  It would be cool if it were to be streamed somewhere. It's a fascinating story.

• 2:19:11Speaker 03

  $219 on Amazon, but I don't know that it's gonna be even real.

• 2:19:16Joe Rogan?

  Right. They might just send you a fucking brick.

• 2:19:19Speaker 02

  But he was somebody like, you know, Widespread Panic, that was like their guru, you know?

• 2:19:25Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 2:19:26Speaker 02

  Colonel Bruce Hampton, Jimmy Herring, you know, Oteel Burbidge, who I'm in a band with now.

• 2:19:34Speaker 02

  You know, he started with Bruce, really.

• 2:19:37Joe Rogan?

  God, I've never heard of him before.

• 2:19:39Speaker 02

  You know, it's just, he's one of those guys that, you know, he was like, to the southeast, he was like our Frank Zappa, you know? Or like our Sun Ra.

• 2:19:47Joe Rogan?

  Oh, wow.

• 2:19:48Speaker 02

  He was just all about just the outrageousness. And, you know, I have a lot of friends who spent a lot more time with him than I did. But like, he was one of the first people that took notice to what I was doing when I was like 15, you know? And then, I remember like, being in Germany and finding out that he'd passed away onstage.

• 2:20:12Speaker 02

  Which he predicted.

• 2:20:13Joe Rogan?

  He did? Really?

• 2:20:14Speaker 02

  Yeah. He said that's how he was gonna go.

• 2:20:17Joe Rogan?

  Well, if you keep performing long enough, well, Carlin died in a hotel room on the road.

• 2:20:24Speaker 02

  Really?

• 2:20:24Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:20:25Speaker 03

  I'm gonna have to download this for you real quick.

• 2:20:27Speaker 02

  Oh, there you go.

• 2:20:27Speaker 03

  It's unlisted on YouTube.

• 2:20:29Speaker 02

  Oh, perfect.

• 2:20:30Joe Rogan?

  Oh!

• 2:20:30Speaker 03

  It won't be there tomorrow, though.

• 2:20:32Joe Rogan?

  After this episode gets released? Yeah, can you download it?

• 2:20:35Speaker 03

  I can try it, yeah.

• 2:20:37Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:20:38Speaker 03

  Uh, I'll just download it to YouTube. I'll figure it out, though.

• 2:20:40Joe Rogan?

  Okay. Jam me to the rescue. Sorry, folks, if you're getting this.

• 2:20:45Speaker 03

  You might be able to find it still. I found it, but good luck.

• 2:20:48Joe Rogan?

  Somebody can upload it on one of them other social media platforms. That's cool. I'm interested in checking it out. Well, I I love music for inspiration, you know. It's um, it's one of the unique art forms that uh, it inspires you to create, inspires you to go do things. You know, whenever I see a live band or a live performer, I can't wait to go do something. I'm I'm gonna go write, I wanna go perform, I wanna. Paul Paul Mooney, who's a great comedian, do you know who Paul Mooney is?

• 2:21:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:21:23Joe Rogan?

  Uh, he used to write for Richard Pryor. He was one of the real OGs back in the early days when I came to the Comedy Store. I was kind of blown. He was one of the guys I was always nervous around being around until he liked me. So, you know what I mean? Like,

• 2:21:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:21:35Joe Rogan?

  Paul Mooney hates you, you're fucked. But uh, he gave me that advice once early on. He said, if you wanna entertain people, he said, go be entertained. He goes, you wanna entertain, honey? Go be entertained, homie. Go see some other shit. He goes, go see something that gets you. Try, go see a great movie. Go see a band, go see something. Be entertained.

• 2:21:59Speaker 02

  That's what, that's what my process is like in the studio, man. Like, this last record we did, like, we had a projector and we'd play like, you know, uh, Giant with James Dean, or we'd play like uh, Easy Rider, Big Lebowski, or like films that like inspired us, films that we like really gravitated towards. And I, all the while, you know, waking up in the morning and reading East of Eden and just like some of these great architects of Americana and just like being inspired on every turn, watching live concert footage of bands that we love, Marshall Tucker Band, Skinnerd, whatever the case. Um, just inundating yourself with inspiring stuff, you know?

• 2:22:42Joe Rogan?

  Just something to get the juices flowing.

• 2:22:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:22:44Joe Rogan?

  To summon the muse.

• 2:22:46Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:22:46Joe Rogan?

  Something to.

• 2:22:48Speaker 02

  Sometimes we would play just the the footage of like Midnight Cowboy or something.

• 2:22:52Joe Rogan?

  Ah.

• 2:22:53Speaker 02

  And we would, we would record, you know, in the mindset like we were trying to score this film, you know?

• 2:22:58Joe Rogan?

  Oh, wow.

• 2:22:59Speaker 02

  Just to kind of get a different approach.

• 2:23:03Joe Rogan?

  I forgot about Midnight Cowboy. What a wild movie.

• 2:23:05Speaker 02

  It's a good one.

• 2:23:06Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that was back when Times Square was dirty.

• 2:23:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:23:10Joe Rogan?

  Now Times Square is one big Applebee's.

• 2:23:12Speaker 02

  That's when people would go and watch pornography together in a theater.

• 2:23:16Joe Rogan?

  In a theater.

• 2:23:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:23:17Joe Rogan?

  Not only that, but it was a thing in the early days of pornography where couples would go out and like Johnny Carson went to see Deep Throat.

• 2:23:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:23:30Joe Rogan?

  There's like famous people went to see the film Deep Throat in the theater.

• 2:23:36Speaker 02

  Yep. Well, it was adult entertainment.

• 2:23:39Joe Rogan?

  How, but how weird is that? That pornography, like there was always stag films, right? Like that was the thing that they used to make like in the early days of movies that would film people having sex and you could watch it like at a stag party, which was like a bachelor party.

• 2:23:56Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:23:56Joe Rogan?

  But then people tried to make films, like artistic films that had people having sex in them. Which is really interesting that we, we find that abhorrent, like people don't like that in today's society. We don't mind like this, this show From that I was telling you about, bro, the violence is horrific. The gore and the violence is crazy. That's okay.

• 2:24:21Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:24:21Joe Rogan?

  Just don't suck someone's dick. Don't make them come. That's terrible. Like, do you remember the movie Bad Bunny? No, not Bad Bunny. Was that Brown Bunny? Brown Bunny. Do you remember the movie Brown Bunny?

• 2:24:31Speaker 02

  Mm.

• 2:24:32Joe Rogan?

  Brown Bunny was a Vincent Gallo movie that he made. And there was a real sex scene in there. Like, we're real, like, how do you say that lady's name? Chloe?

• 2:24:44Joe Rogan?

  I don't know how you say her name. She's a really good actress. And she blows him, like for real in the movie. Like it's a real scene. And the movie's a real movie. But then when it came to the sex part, they actually did it. And people were horrified.

• 2:25:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:25:05Joe Rogan?

  I mean, that's so weird. Like, if it was violence, like, if it was a scene where she beat him to death with a baseball bat.

• 2:25:13Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:25:14Joe Rogan?

  People would be like, wow, what a crazy movie.

• 2:25:16Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:25:17Joe Rogan?

  But if it was a scene where she blows him, people are like, this is outrageous.

• 2:25:20Speaker 02

  Outrageous.

• 2:25:21Joe Rogan?

  And I think that movie ruined Vincent Gallo's career.

• 2:25:25Speaker 02

  Really?

• 2:25:26Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, because Vincent Gallo had been in a bunch of movies. He's a really weird guy, like, a very interesting guy. And after that, he kind of dipped away from Hollywood, like, he kind of vanished in a lot of ways. And that was the big thing. I remember reading these articles on how outraged people were, that they had actually seen real sex in a movie. Like, it's so strange that we don't mind violence. Like, once upon a time in Hollywood, Brad Pitt takes a lady's head and bashes it into a mantelpiece and fucking brains her.

• 2:25:57Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:25:58Joe Rogan?

  Fine. Fine. No, no outrage. No, everyone, everyone okay? Everyone's okay. But if he fucked her, like, actually pulled her pants down, you see Brad Pitt's penis in her vagina, you're like, this is crazy! Something that we all do.

• 2:26:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, but the simulation of it is fine, too.

• 2:26:14Joe Rogan?

  Right. Simulation of it is fine.

• 2:26:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:26:16Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, like, it was a sex scene, and you just see his hips and her face, like, oh, and they're kissing, fine! I just don't see actual sex.

• 2:26:25Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:26:26Joe Rogan?

  Even if it was like him and his wife. Like, if he made a movie with him and his wife, and they decided to have actual sex in the movie, people would be like, this is disgusting! Get this fucking smut off the screen! But if they had a movie with him and his wife, and she shoots him, you're like, okay, that's fine. Didn't really happen.

• 2:26:44Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:26:44Joe Rogan?

  Weird, right?

• 2:26:45Speaker 02

  It is weird. I mean, hell, I did a commercial for, like, I did a shoot for this car, and, like, they couldn't have me in the car while it was moving for insurance purposes. So they had to, like, make it seem like I was in the car while it was moving.

• 2:27:02Joe Rogan?

  Insurance purposes. That's crazy.

• 2:27:07Joe Rogan?

  But that's more of a financial thing.

• 2:27:10Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:27:11Joe Rogan?

  But the weirdness about sex, the point is, like, see if you can find that footage of all the people that were in line. There's like an old, there's a YouTube video of an old news report of people in line to see Deep Throat.

• 2:27:29Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:27:30Joe Rogan?

  And again, Johnny Carson was one of them. I think they even interviewed him after the film. Like, they went and watched people fuck. And like it was a movie. Like, you know, you're watching The Joker or something.

• 2:27:42Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:27:43Joe Rogan?

  Very odd.

• 2:27:44Speaker 02

  It is odd. And they got that name Deep Throat from the Watergate.

• 2:27:50Joe Rogan?

  Did they?

• 2:27:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:27:51Joe Rogan?

  I thought Deep Throat was afterwards. I thought, I thought the Watergate thing was after. I don't know.

• 2:28:01Speaker 02

  I could be wrong. Chicken or the egg?

• 2:28:03Joe Rogan?

  Okay, so Watergate was what, 70s?

• 2:28:06Speaker 02

  Seventy-four.

• 2:28:07Joe Rogan?

  Was it?

• 2:28:07Speaker 03

  Yeah, it came out in seventy-two.

• 2:28:09Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah, so the movie came out first.

• 2:28:11Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 2:28:12Joe Rogan?

  And so that was after those. So that's interesting, too, when you think about like seventy-two was not that long ago, and people's ideas of pornography were very different back then.

• 2:28:23Speaker 02

  A lot of my favorite venues in the country were porno theaters first.

• 2:28:28Joe Rogan?

  Comedy mothership, bro.

• 2:28:30Speaker 02

  All right, yeah.

• 2:28:31Joe Rogan?

  Was a porno theater at one point in time.

• 2:28:33Speaker 02

  And like, people cared about like, the quality of like, the audio production in those films, and like, you know, and these rooms sound really good. Variety Playhouse in Atlanta.

• 2:28:43Joe Rogan?

  It's one of the best scenes in American Werewolf in London.

• 2:28:46Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 2:28:46Joe Rogan?

  Do you remember that movie? American Werewolf in London? It's a great fucking movie. One of the best scenes, they're in the middle of London, and they're in an adult movie theater, and these people are watching pornography. They're watching a smut film. And while these people are fucking, he turns into a werewolf and kills everybody.

• 2:29:05Speaker 02

  I gotta check that out.

• 2:29:06Joe Rogan?

  Oh, it's great. One of the greatest movies of all time. That wolf that we have in the lobby, that's a recreation.

• 2:29:12Speaker 02

  Oh, really?

• 2:29:13Joe Rogan?

  Of American Werewolf. Yeah, that's what that is.

• 2:29:16Speaker 03

  The thing with Johnny Carson and Deep Throat, I think, is like a conglomeration memory.

• 2:29:20Joe Rogan?

  Is it?

• 2:29:21Speaker 03

  There's a weird, there is a photo of people waiting in line to see the movie.

• 2:29:26Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:29:27Speaker 03

  But it's like, this is it on the screen.

• 2:29:30Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:29:32Joe Rogan?

  But there was a video of-

• 2:29:33Speaker 03

  Johnny Carson talking about it after the fact during his monologue that he went to see it.

• 2:29:40Joe Rogan?

  Oh, so there wasn't a photo or a video of him at the movie theater?

• 2:29:43Speaker 03

  I don't think so, man, I'm looking for it. I sort of remember what you're talking about. I think remember we might have read an article that listed all of this stuff together.

• 2:29:52Speaker 02

  What was that play where they had like, everybody was like naked and it was like really a big deal? Was it like hairspray or something like that?

• 2:30:03Joe Rogan?

  I don't know.

• 2:30:04Speaker 02

  In the late seventies, my dad told me him and his friends went to go see this like Broadway production or off-Broadway production.

• 2:30:13Speaker 02

  Where like everybody was like nude and it was like this really, you know, it was like this really racy thing, yeah. And there was a preacher up front, just like, really just giving them hell, man. And then he got up closer and he realized it was his uncle. My great uncle was up there. Just motherfucker and him.

• 2:30:33Joe Rogan?

  That's hilarious. Widely cited overview, many works are quoted note that several mainstream celebrities appeared to have seen Deep Throat, including Martin Scorsese, Brian De Palma, Truman Capote, Jack Nicholson, Johnny Carson, Spiro Agnew, Frank Sinatra and others. Barbara Walters later mentioned seeing it in her memoir. These references are usually brief, but they're pulled into many articles about the film's cultural impact. But that's what's so interesting is like, that is not, not normal in today's society to even think that a bunch of people would say they went to go see a porn film.

• 2:31:08Speaker 03

  I think this is also, so Midnight Cowboy, which is where you guys started this, nineteen sixty-nine, which is before this and won Best Picture as the only X-rated or NC seventeen movie. So there started a little bit of a trend then.

• 2:31:22Joe Rogan?

  Hmm, interesting.

• 2:31:24Speaker 03

  This is only three years later, you know, so.

• 2:31:26Joe Rogan?

  Why was Midnight Cowboy X-rated?

• 2:31:28Speaker 03

  The reason?

• 2:31:29Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, like what was, what was so explicit that they had to make it an X?

• 2:31:36Speaker 03

  I would say a little bit has to do with marketing.

• 2:31:40Speaker 03

  But I don't know if there's a reason, I'll see if it says a reason.

• 2:31:42Joe Rogan?

  Marketing?

• 2:31:43Speaker 03

  Yeah, it'd make people want to go see it.

• 2:31:44Joe Rogan?

  Right, I guess. Oh, this is crazy. This movie's crazy.

• 2:31:50Speaker 03

  Standing out here.

• 2:31:53Speaker 03

  Right here.

• 2:31:56Speaker 03

  After consulting with a psychologist, they had told to give it a next homosexual frame reference. And its possible influence on youngsters.

• 2:32:04Joe Rogan?

  Wow, that's crazy. Today that would be celebrated.

• 2:32:09Speaker 03

  Right. Oh, there's a rape scene? I haven't seen this movie.

• 2:32:11Joe Rogan?

  I, I saw it in like the eighties. I haven't seen it in forever.

• 2:32:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, but even, I mean, like in that film, it's like a, it's like a distant thought that John Voight's character keeps going back to, like the rape scene. Whereas like-

• 2:32:28Joe Rogan?

  When was the last time you saw it?

• 2:32:29Speaker 02

  Um, a couple of months ago, probably.

• 2:32:31Joe Rogan?

  Oh, really?

• 2:32:32Speaker 02

  But like, fucking, uh, The Deliverance is, plays on AMC on TV.

• 2:32:37Joe Rogan?

  Right, right, which is another rape scene, right?

• 2:32:39Speaker 02

  Nothing's edited out.

• 2:32:42Joe Rogan?

  Squeal like a pig.

• 2:32:43Speaker 02

  That one fucked me up when I was a kid, I'm not gonna lie.

• 2:32:46Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah, very much so.

• 2:32:48Speaker 02

  Not to mention it, like, supposedly took place, like, in the Appalachian, like, backdrop, which is like where I grew up. I was like, that's fucking happening, like, here?

• 2:32:57Joe Rogan?

  Uh, because of then shocking sexual content, even more importantly, its frank portrayal of homosexuality and hustling. Hustling meaning having gay sex for money. Which the studio and censors saw as potentially corrupting to young viewers. The film includes scenes and references to male prostitution, homosexual encounters, and brief but explicit situations, including implied oral sex and nudity, which went far beyond what Hollywood had shown in a mainstream drama up to that point.

• 2:33:29Speaker 03

  Maybe now it would get just an R, but also that would be with, this never existing, so.

• 2:33:34Joe Rogan?

  Now it'd be celebrated. It's, it's a film celebrating sex workers. It's weird. It's weird what was, uh, but it's also weird that there was a movie that was an actual porn movie, that a bunch of people just went to see and talked about. Like, today, people wanna pretend they don't even watch porn. Meanwhile, I think, last check, we did, oh, no, we've done this before, Jamie, like, what percentage of the internet is pornography? Internet traffic? Take a guess at that. I bet it's way more than SSRIs.

• 2:34:08Joe Rogan?

  Right? Don't you think?

• 2:34:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, I haven't, I haven't guessed right so far, so we'll see.

• 2:34:15Speaker 02

  Fifty percent?

• 2:34:16Joe Rogan?

  Oh, I don't think it's that high. I would, I would say thirty.

• 2:34:20Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 2:34:21Joe Rogan?

  I'd say thirty percent of the internet, but I could be wrong. I don't remember. Thirty percent of the internet traffic is pornography. Let's say that. Maybe it's forty.

• 2:34:30Speaker 03

  Well, it's just saying that's a myth.

• 2:34:31Joe Rogan?

  It's a myth?

• 2:34:32Speaker 03

  I don't, I mean, I haven't read through this yet.

• 2:34:34Joe Rogan?

  That's a bunch of people lying about jerking off.

• 2:34:36Speaker 03

  Thirty to forty percent things are myths, apparently.

• 2:34:40Joe Rogan?

  Okay. Porn makes up a small share of sites. Yeah, yeah, yeah, but traffic.

• 2:34:44Speaker 03

  Yeah, it says it.

• 2:34:46Joe Rogan?

  Um, thirty to forty percent. Uh, Wiley stated, but what is the, what about traffic? The amount of internet?

• 2:34:53Speaker 03

  Searches.

• 2:34:54Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but, no, but I mean, traffic, like the amount of bandwidth.

• 2:34:58Speaker 03

  Alright, then it's getting lost in this word, because I used, I used traffic. No, I used traffic.

• 2:35:02Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you did. Why do we see higher numbers? See, thirty to seven, thirty seven percent of the internet is porn. BBC reported tracing one of these popular figures back to single content filter company press release. Not an independent audited measurement. Some advocacy. I, I bet now, today, because of YouTube and the amount of streaming that goes on with like, uh, Instagram and TikTok, I bet it probably isn't as high as it used to be. The percentage wise, because there's so much more content that's being streamed now than ever before. Porn-related searches are thirteen percent on the web and twenty percent on mobile devices. That's funny, it's more on mobile devices, because people can hide in the toilet.

• 2:35:45Joe Rogan?

  Um, the content filter company, okay.

• 2:35:48Speaker 03

  The claim comes from this.

• 2:35:49Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, we read that. We already read that.

• 2:35:51Speaker 03

  Well, I just said, so it could be just made up to begin with.

• 2:35:53Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, could be. But there's gotta be like, a number.

• 2:35:57Speaker 03

  I don't know.

• 2:35:57Joe Rogan?

  Of like, the internet traffic.

• 2:35:58Speaker 03

  I don't know how you'd get that number.

• 2:35:59Joe Rogan?

  So, some advocacy or internet safety groups cite very high traffic shares and storage figures. Example, uh, nearly a third of all internet traffic, but these are rough, sometimes opaque estimates, rather than peer-reviewed measurements. Hmm. Okay. So it's at least four percent? So it says roughly, websites, four to twelve percent. That's a lot. Does four to twelve percent of the whole internet is jerk-off websites? That's crazy.

• 2:36:31Joe Rogan?

  But the volume, in terms of the amount of bandwidth used.

• 2:36:35Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:36:38Speaker 02

  But.

• 2:36:39Joe Rogan?

  I bet if you went and watched Deep Throat today, it'd probably be pretty pedestrian.

• 2:36:43Speaker 02

  Be tamed.

• 2:36:43Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:36:44Speaker 02

  Probably would seem just like softcore, almost.

• 2:36:47Joe Rogan?

  Right, yeah, like one of them Showtime late night movies.

• 2:36:50Speaker 02

  Yeah. I mean, it is something that I, you know, um, I like to save all that, you know? When I get home off the road, see my wife.

• 2:37:02Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:37:03Speaker 02

  You know?

• 2:37:04Speaker 03

  Is that the tagline that it had originally?

• 2:37:07Joe Rogan?

  The woman had an unusual birth defect that came from a doctor who has an unorthodox solution to make the best of her situation. Is that it?

• 2:37:15Speaker 03

  Is that the Deep Throat?

• 2:37:16Joe Rogan?

  Yes, yes, or that she could just take it.

• 2:37:19Speaker 03

  Some birth defect?

• 2:37:20Joe Rogan?

  Balls deep downward, her chin. That guy, Harry Reams, he was like one of the first famous male porn stars. I think he went on to be a real estate salesman or something. Like, if you're one of those people that gets famous, fucking.

• 2:37:35Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:37:36Joe Rogan?

  That has got to be a very weird.

• 2:37:38Speaker 03

  Is that where the porn mustache comes from?

• 2:37:39Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:37:40Speaker 02

  Gotta be.

• 2:37:41Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah, he had a crazy stash. 1947, wow, what's he up to these days?

• 2:37:47Speaker 03

  Passed away.

• 2:37:48Joe Rogan?

  Did he?

• 2:37:49Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:37:49Joe Rogan?

  When did he pass away?

• 2:37:50Speaker 03

  2013.

• 2:37:51Joe Rogan?

  Wow, didn't live that long. All that fucking, wasted all his jizz. I bet he shaved off his mustache and he was just anonymous. Drifted in and out of traffic, nobody even noticed him. You know?

• 2:38:04Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:38:05Joe Rogan?

  Weird life, having sex with people on camera.

• 2:38:08Speaker 03

  Should we add that to the wall?

• 2:38:09Joe Rogan?

  Oh, look at that. No one's gonna know who that is. Wonder what he got arrested to?

• 2:38:13Speaker 03

  If we add it to the wall, probably for indecent something.

• 2:38:16Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, we should add that to the wall.

• 2:38:18Speaker 02

  Memphis.

• 2:38:20Speaker 02

  You gotta be up to some no good to get arrested in Memphis, I feel.

• 2:38:23Joe Rogan?

  What did he get arrested for? Too much dick?

• 2:38:28Speaker 03

  Says his appearance in Deep Throat led to his arrest by FBI agents in Memphis.

• 2:38:32Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 2:38:32Speaker 03

  Charges of conspiracy to distribute obscenity across state lines.

• 2:38:36Joe Rogan?

  Whoa, whoa.

• 2:38:38Speaker 03

  He called it forum shopping, but I don't.

• 2:38:41Joe Rogan?

  What does that mean? Forum shopping?

• 2:38:44Speaker 03

  Colloquial term for the practice of litigants taking actions to have their legal case heard in the court. They believe is most, oh, to give them a good judgment. They're trying to find, they're trying to get him convicted, I guess. Trying to make an example of him, so they found a court that would take the case.

• 2:38:58Speaker 02

  Like for obscenity?

• 2:38:59Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:39:00Joe Rogan?

  How interesting.

• 2:39:03Speaker 03

  Miller versus California, Reams granted a new trial. Charges were dropped in August.

• 2:39:07Joe Rogan?

  Wow, so they just.

• 2:39:09Speaker 03

  Defense argues the first act to ever be prosecuted by the federal government for appearing in a film.

• 2:39:13Speaker 02

  It's like the Lenny Bruce of slinging dick.

• 2:39:16Speaker 03

  And then all these people got behind him.

• 2:39:19Joe Rogan?

  Very, Shirley MacLaine, Warren Beatty, Richard Dreyfuss, they all got behind him. Jack Nicholson, Ben Gazzara, wow, Dick Cavett.

• 2:39:28Speaker 03

  No, he was in Grease. As the coach.

• 2:39:31Joe Rogan?

  Wow. He was in the movie Grease, the musical? What, in 1978?

• 2:39:37Speaker 03

  Out of fear his notoriety would rip, jeopardize the film's block, he was replaced.

• 2:39:41Joe Rogan?

  Oh, he was cast and he was replaced by Sid Caesar. That's hilarious. Wow. After an eight year, in 1982, after an eight year hiatus from porn, Reams returned to the industry and performed in the film Society Affairs and reportedly received a six-figure salary. How weird.

• 2:40:01Speaker 03

  Money back then.

• 2:40:03Joe Rogan?

  Weird.

• 2:40:04Speaker 02

  It is.

• 2:40:05Joe Rogan?

  The whole pornography thing is very strange. Cause like people want to watch other people have sex because people like having sex. But it's like.

• 2:40:15Speaker 02

  But you can't talk about it.

• 2:40:17Joe Rogan?

  Well, you know, if you say you like it, people are like, fuck is wrong with you? And then they watch it.

• 2:40:22Speaker 02

  But if we could de-stigmatize it and like not give people unrealistic ideas of what happens in the, in the bedroom and, and note it as something that is entertainment, you know?

• 2:40:33Joe Rogan?

  I think.

• 2:40:34Speaker 02

  It's entertainment.

• 2:40:34Joe Rogan?

  The fear is that the women that are in it, they, for the rest of their life, they're always going to be thought of a certain way. And the men skate, they don't really have a, like, they're, they're thought as seedy, but they don't thought as like, you know. Girls that got used. Well, I think what's gonna get weird is AI porn. Because then you can watch porn and there's no victims, right? There's no person you feel bad for, like, oh, that poor girl, everyone's gonna know that she sucked dick on camera. She took it in the ass on camera. It's not a real person, so then maybe you can watch that and...

• 2:41:12Speaker 02

  Remove any kind of victim, yeah.

• 2:41:14Joe Rogan?

  I don't know. People are fucking weird.

• 2:41:17Speaker 02

  People are weird.

• 2:41:18Joe Rogan?

  I'll tell you one thing I've never tried and I'm not going to, I don't want it, nope, not gonna do it, is VR porn. Cause Duncan told me, dude, have you ever seen VR porn? It's fucking amazing. Like, not gonna do it. I'm not gonna sit there with fucking goggles on, jacking off.

• 2:41:35Speaker 02

  Joe hasn't left his house in about six months.

• 2:41:39Joe Rogan?

  I mean, imagine you're watching porn and the people are fucking 20 feet high in front of you. They're bagging, and if you can move around in it, like you can move around another VR, you can get like really close to watch the dick go in there.

• 2:41:54Speaker 02

  That's one thing I haven't tried either.

• 2:41:55Joe Rogan?

  VR porn? Good for you. Stay away. VR in general is weird. You know what's really great, though, is VR games. Have you ever done any VR games? You know what Sandbox is? You ever heard of Sandbox? Sandbox, they have one in Austin, uh, they had one in Woodland Hills, right down the street from our old studio in LA. And it is a place where you go, it's like a big ass warehouse. And you go to these rooms in the warehouse and they have fans set up and it's all like these, these walls, like it's all, uh, boundaries. They put a haptic feedback vest on you and goggles and they give you rifles. And the plastic rifles and then you get dropped into this virtual reality world where you fight zombies.

• 2:42:39Speaker 02

  Oh shit.

• 2:42:40Joe Rogan?

  It's fucking dope. Dude, it's nuts. When the zombies attack you, they run at you, they claw you, you see blood splatter in front of your eyes and you gun them down. It's fucking cra- there's a, there's one called Deadwood Mansion. That's my favorite. And the Deadwood Man, there's a couple of different Deadwood games. I think there's two or three now. I think there's three, I think there's three. There's three zombie games that you can play.

• 2:43:07Speaker 02

  That's in LA?

• 2:43:08Joe Rogan?

  Three different ones. No, it's here.

• 2:43:09Speaker 02

  Here?

• 2:43:09Joe Rogan?

  They have one in Austin. Yeah, it's out at, um, the Domain? Yeah, it's out at the Domain. It's fucking so fun. My family hates it because they get like sick and I wanted, that's all I ever wanted to do, so on Father's Day, I make everybody shoot zombies with me.

• 2:43:26Joe Rogan?

  Like, it's Father's Day, what do you want to do? Shoot zombies? Like, no. Like, come on, we have to do it.

• 2:43:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:43:32Joe Rogan?

  It's, once you do it, it's fun.

• 2:43:35Speaker 02

  Father's Day's coming up.

• 2:43:36Joe Rogan?

  Tournament?

• 2:43:37Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:43:37Joe Rogan?

  Okay, uh, at one point in time, I had the number three score in the country.

• 2:43:42Speaker 02

  No shit?

• 2:43:43Joe Rogan?

  At killing zombies. Yeah, I went ham one day. One day, I was just locked the fuck in. And the key is, I'm gonna give you guys a, a pro tip. If you're doing Deadwood Mansion, get the shotgun. The shotgun is overpowered. The shotgun kills more things than anything else. It's way better at it. But the game is nuts, man. I mean, there's, there's zombie rats that come running at you. There's fucking people that are attached to the walls and they, they, they shoot down their tongue and wrap it around your neck and they're pulling on you. Show, show them a clip of it. It's crazy. It is a fucking, it is, it's really fun, dude. You'll, you'll love it.

• 2:44:21Speaker 02

  I'm gonna tell you the band to do that.

• 2:44:22Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's what you, you could do. You could do it like six people. He's going there and-

• 2:44:26Speaker 02

  We're always looking for like, band activities.

• 2:44:28Joe Rogan?

  It's a good one. I bet they have multiple. I don't, I, I only know of these two, of Austin and, um, LA.

• 2:44:35Speaker 03

  The one I pulled up is in Atlanta.

• 2:44:37Joe Rogan?

  Oh, there's one in Atlanta?

• 2:44:38Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:44:38Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, they have to have them all over the place. I don't know, I, I have no idea why it's not everywhere, because it's so fun. It's one of the most fun things you could do with your friends. I've, we've done it, my wife and I have done it on double dates. Like, you go do that and then you go have dinner. It's like, it's great, man. It's great. It's really fun.

• 2:44:56Speaker 03

  They got a ton of locations now.

• 2:44:58Joe Rogan?

  Oh, shit, they're all over the place now. Yeah, that's great. Um, see if you can find a video of Deadwood Mansion. Oh, Deadwood Phobia. Oh, that's the newest one. That's the third one. Oh, there's a Squid Games one. We've done that one too. The Stranger Things one. They have so many different, Deadwood Valley, that's another one that's really good.

• 2:45:21Joe Rogan?

  The Deadwood Valley one, they have a, yeah, there we go. So check this out. So this is what happens. You get dropped off into this city. And the zombies are there. And so this is, this is you, it's like, it's cut between you with the guns and then like, this is what you see. This is what it looks like. So, but this is more like a video, like showing you what it looks like on the outside, but when you're in it. Wish they would show you what it looks like. That's what it looks like when you're in it.

• 2:45:53Joe Rogan?

  And these dudes are chasing after you and you're gunning them down. It's really fun. But again, there's a bunch of games that you can do that.

• 2:46:04Joe Rogan?

  Survive the horrors.

• 2:46:08Joe Rogan?

  You gotta save the heroes. There's, there's people in there that you have to save and there's other people that you have to kill. It's dope. It's really fun.

• 2:46:16Speaker 02

  It's badass.

• 2:46:18Joe Rogan?

  So that's a good use of VR. Don't be looking at 10 foot vaginas.

• 2:46:24Joe Rogan?

  Go kill fake zombies. You get stuck on a train and as a train's running down the tracks, they're jumping onto the train and trying to get you. You have to gun them down. It's really fun.

• 2:46:33Speaker 02

  That seems like something I could get into. I never played any video games growing up.

• 2:46:38Joe Rogan?

  Really? That's crazy. How old are you?

• 2:46:41Speaker 02

  30.

• 2:46:42Joe Rogan?

  How's that possible?

• 2:46:43Speaker 02

  I mean, I just, I never had much interest in them. Like when I was young.

• 2:46:50Speaker 02

  I don't know.

• 2:46:50Joe Rogan?

  Do your friends play video games?

• 2:46:54Speaker 02

  Like the rest of the band, they all play, you know?

• 2:46:57Joe Rogan?

  And you just say, no, not interested?

• 2:46:59Speaker 02

  I was just never really into it, man.

• 2:47:00Joe Rogan?

  Well, this is different than a regular video game. Like this is very physical. Like you're running around. You're in a room that's bigger than this room and you have your haptic feedback. You also have fans that blow air at you. You know, like, so like, if, it's also to cool you off too, because it gets hot as fuck and you're running around, you got this vest on. And when you get grabbed, the vest vibrates, so you feel it like, ah.

• 2:47:21Speaker 02

  That's sick.

• 2:47:22Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah, it's really fun. But it's probably good that you never got into video games because they're so time intensive. They they rob you of your life. You think golf robs you of your life? You don't have to leave the house to play video games. Like, look at Jamie over there. How often do you play video games, Jamie?

• 2:47:37Speaker 03

  Not that often.

• 2:47:38Joe Rogan?

  No?

• 2:47:38Speaker 03

  No.

• 2:47:39Joe Rogan?

  I thought you were a junkie.

• 2:47:40Speaker 03

  I actually haven't played in weeks.

• 2:47:42Joe Rogan?

  Ooh.

• 2:47:43Speaker 03

  Maybe.

• 2:47:43Joe Rogan?

  But you were hooked for a while, right?

• 2:47:46Speaker 03

  It's a fun, as I'm thinking in my head, I'm like, I grew up playing video games, but I also wish I was fucking sick of guitar. So, there's a fucking trade off there. And most people I know who are sick of guitar aren't good at video games or play them, so.

• 2:48:00Joe Rogan?

  That's a very good point.

• 2:48:01Speaker 02

  I did make, I made an effort, like, a year or two ago. I got a PS5 and I got Red Dead Redemption. I was like, I'm gonna fucking do it. I'm gonna play this game. And I just got, I was like, I feel like I'm just doing chores. And I asked my drummer, he was like, yeah, that's pretty much what it is.

• 2:48:18Joe Rogan?

  Oh, Red Dead Redemption, yeah. You gotta play something like a first person shooter. You know, play like Quake or something like that. Like, what's the, what's the big first person shooter that the kids play today, Jamie?

• 2:48:30Speaker 03

  I mean Fortnite, really?

• 2:48:31Joe Rogan?

  Fortnite, Fortnite is, Fortnite's been around forever. When I, my kids were in, like, grade school, Fortnite was big.

• 2:48:39Speaker 03

  Yep, and they just made some weird, I don't, I stopped paying attention, but like Star Wars is now in Fortnite. And the games that they made for Star Wars are just like, nope, it's just in this thing now. You can just play it in here.

• 2:48:50Joe Rogan?

  Wow, really?

• 2:48:51Speaker 03

  Yeah, and it's like they downloaded Stormtroopers and Life Sabers.

• 2:48:55Joe Rogan?

  Whoa.

• 2:48:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, my nephews are always hitting me for, what do they call that, like Fortnite bucks?

• 2:49:01Speaker 03

  B bucks.

• 2:49:02Speaker 02

  B bucks, B bucks.

• 2:49:03Joe Rogan?

  They want B bucks so they can play more? Yeah, there's Robux. My kids were always into Robux for Roblox, so you could buy things in Roblox. But apparently now there's like pedophiles have been gotten into Roblox. They try to message people.

• 2:49:18Speaker 02

  They ruin everything.

• 2:49:19Joe Rogan?

  They do, they do. Creeps ruin everything. But there's some very fun video games that you shouldn't ever do because it'll fuck with all the other things you do. Like, not getting into golf, not getting into video games. Again, Jamie's dead right. That's probably why you're so sick of guitar.

• 2:49:38Speaker 03

  You can make a guitar gently weep.

• 2:49:42Joe Rogan?

  Well, there's other things like, there's certain games where you can play guitar, like Guitar Hero.

• 2:49:47Speaker 03

  That's not the fucking same.

• 2:49:49Joe Rogan?

  No, no, no, but haven't people learned how to play guitar, an actual guitar, because of Guitar Hero?

• 2:49:54Speaker 03

  There's a game, there's technically a game, it's like a training aid called Rocksmith, which is way, it's a, you actually have a guitar and it's plugged into it, not on a-

• 2:50:02Joe Rogan?

  That's cool.

• 2:50:03Speaker 03

  Guitar Hero, you're just hitting five buttons.

• 2:50:04Joe Rogan?

  Oh, I see.

• 2:50:06Speaker 03

  You're just matching red to red, blue to blue, and that's a timing thing, but as you, no transfer.

• 2:50:11Joe Rogan?

  It doesn't, oh, but it would ima- I would imagine that a game that would teach you how to play guitar with an actual guitar would be dope. Like, if you got like, you know, like these games, like the Sandbox game, Deadwood Mansion, they, you get a gun. And if you got really good, like Staccato has a VR gun game. Staccato, they make pistols, and they, there's a VR gun game, and you get a plastic staccato. And when you're playing this game, like, you're actually pointing the trigger, and when you pull the trigger, there's actually like a muzzle jump. So your reticle actually jumps up and down a little, your red dot jumps up and down a little bit. That was, that would be exactly like it would do if you actually shot a gun.

• 2:50:56Joe Rogan?

  So they have to like re-center it, bang, bang, bang. And so you could run around doing things and shoot stuff and shoot targets and-

• 2:51:04Speaker 02

  That's here too?

• 2:51:04Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and you, but that's a game that you can get for like med- VR goggles, like consumer VR goggles. And so you, doing that could get better at shooting guns. Cause you're shooting a plastic, it doesn't weigh the same, but it's the same shape, the same form. It's a plastic gun. And what they really should do is make one of those things with the weight of an actual steel gun. So that you're accustomed to the actual feel of the thing.

• 2:51:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:51:32Joe Rogan?

  And then, god, why can't they do that? They should be able to do that. Maybe we'll talk to them. But if you did that, like, that would be a skill that would actually transfer over. So if they could do that with a guitar, if they could figure out a way to attach like computer sensors to an actual, real guitar.

• 2:51:51Speaker 03

  This is Rocksmith. This is a... There's levels of it. You can slow it down.

• 2:51:57Joe Rogan?

  And what are you playing?

• 2:51:58Speaker 03

  Real songs. You picked the song. They're all real songs.

• 2:52:01Joe Rogan?

  Right, but what is the interface?

• 2:52:03Speaker 03

  A guitar.

• 2:52:04Joe Rogan?

  Oh, an actual guitar?

• 2:52:05Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's plugged in with a USB cable to the computer.

• 2:52:08Joe Rogan?

  Oh, it's their virtual guitar?

• 2:52:10Speaker 03

  No, no, this is just... I showed you what it looks like on the game, but...

• 2:52:16Joe Rogan?

  Right. What is it? But it looks like an actual guitar?

• 2:52:19Speaker 03

  Whatever guitar you want to play.

• 2:52:20Joe Rogan?

  Oh!

• 2:52:22Speaker 03

  It's your guitar. It's not a fake guitar. Guitars are just things that vibrate strings and expel...

• 2:52:30Joe Rogan?

  Oh, dude, that's dope.

• 2:52:31Speaker 03

  Expel, like, digital sound thing.

• 2:52:34Joe Rogan?

  That's... that is dope, but I think after a while, you'd have to abandon that, right?

• 2:52:39Speaker 03

  Yeah, he's good at guitar.

• 2:52:40Joe Rogan?

  I mean...

• 2:52:41Speaker 03

  He doesn't need to learn this.

• 2:52:42Joe Rogan?

  Did you learn by lessons, or did you just learn by playing?

• 2:52:46Speaker 02

  So initially, I just learned by just sitting around the house, watching cartoons, playing guitar. My grandfather would teach me something. He'd give me like a project, basically. Or my dad would leave me a record to listen to, and it was just his old record collection. So a lot of Allman Brothers Band, a lot of Skinnerd, Marshall Tucker Band, that kind of thing. And then I would just sit at home all day and just go over it. And then later, when I was in high school, I studied jazz theory with Steve Watson. At this... it was like a vocational school for the arts. It was called the Fine Arts Center in Greenville, South Carolina.

• 2:53:27Speaker 02

  And I'd go there in the afternoons and study jazz theory, which was... which was really beneficial, because it's good to put a vocabulary to the things that you kind of knew, you know, but you didn't know how to quite name it.

• 2:53:44Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:53:45Speaker 02

  Just kind of learning the, you know, vocabulary, learning, you know, what the things are called, and then expanding upon that, you know?

• 2:53:55Speaker 02

  Music theory is a valuable tool.

• 2:53:57Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Does it, does it help you in writing songs?

• 2:54:02Speaker 02

  It can. It helps in like, like in Nashville, they use something called the Nashville Number System. So like you go into a session and like, it's all based off of the major scales. So like one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, and then the eight is just the octave of the one, right? So they'll say like, we got a one, four, five, you know? And that just represents what the chords are. Yeah.

• 2:54:31Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 2:54:32Speaker 03

  This is where math and stuff gets really interesting. You go down this rabbit hole forever. You could, you could bring a Terrence Howard back in here. And then some weird stuff. And honestly, and then you could bring an ancient Egypt and say, this is all vibrations and you could probably translate hieroglyphs into some of this music theory stuff.

• 2:54:51Joe Rogan?

  Mmm.

• 2:54:52Speaker 03

  It's fucking weird.

• 2:54:53Speaker 02

  Terrence Howard trying to find the one.

• 2:54:54Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:54:55Speaker 02

  Like in a, in a beat, that's hilarious. But the first time I used the number system was, with, with our back.

• 2:55:01Speaker 03

  Oh, really?

• 2:55:02Speaker 02

  Yeah. Cause Dan, like his house band for a long time was the remaining members of the Memphis Boys, who played on like Son of a Preacher Man by Dusty Springfield.

• 2:55:12Joe Rogan?

  Oh, wow.

• 2:55:13Speaker 02

  And like Suspicious Minds, that kind of thing. Gene Crispin was eighty years old playing drums. Bobby Wood, keyboard player, Billy Sanford. And his second session in Nashville was Pretty Woman and he wrote the riff.

• 2:55:28Joe Rogan?

  Oh, wow.

• 2:55:29Speaker 02

  So I walk in, I was early to the session and they were still, they were finishing up their first session of the day, which was John Prine. And I walked in and it was just like, whoa.

• 2:55:40Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 2:55:40Speaker 02

  Dan was like, did Marcus get his ass in here and play some slide guitar? So they threw a chart in front of me. I just had to pretend I knew what was going on, you know? That's where you gotta rely on your ear.

• 2:55:53Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 2:55:54Speaker 02

  But it's conversational too. Like if you don't really know what's going on, like you don't want to say much.

• 2:56:00Joe Rogan?

  Right. That's fascinating, man. I'm scared of music. Not, not really, but I'm scared of practicing it. I'm scared of learning it. Cause I just feel like it would be very rewarding.

• 2:56:13Speaker 02

  It is.

• 2:56:14Joe Rogan?

  And I'd get very obsessed. Yeah.

• 2:56:18Speaker 02

  Something to it.

• 2:56:19Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Well, listen, man, I'm glad there's people out there like you doing it.

• 2:56:23Speaker 02

  Man, I'm, I'm just thankful.

• 2:56:26Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's the best attitude to have. That's what I think. I think gratitude is the best attitude to have.

• 2:56:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:56:33Joe Rogan?

  Anyone that's doing what they actually want to do, what's going to propel you forward and, and keep it going is probably gratitude.

• 2:56:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:56:41Joe Rogan?

  Just be happy that like you're able to do one of the coolest fucking things in the world for a living. Kind of amazing.

• 2:56:48Speaker 02

  Just, and don't be an asshole.

• 2:56:51Joe Rogan?

  Don't be an asshole. That's it.

• 2:56:52Speaker 02

  You'd be surprised how hard it is to follow that one.

• 2:56:54Joe Rogan?

  I know, right? A lot of people fail. Well, thank you, Marcus. Thanks for being here, brother. It was fun.

• 2:57:00Speaker 02

  Thank you all for having me.

• 2:57:01Joe Rogan?

  What's that? Oh.

• 2:57:02Speaker 02

  Thanks for having me.

• 2:57:02Joe Rogan?

  Anytime. Let's do it again. All right. Bye, everybody.

• 2:57:20Joe Rogan?

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  Are you looking for support in your weight management journey? Zepbound Terzepatide may be able to help. Zepbound is a prescription medicine used with a reduced calorie diet and increased physical activity to help adults with obesity, or some adults with overweight who also have weight-related medical problems, to lose excess body weight and keep the weight off. Zepbound is approved as a 2.5, 5, 7.5, 10, 12.5, or 15-milligram injection. Zepbound contains Terzepatide and should not be used with other Terzepatide-containing products or any GLP-1 receptor agonist medicines. It is not known if Zepbound is safe and effective for use in children. Don't share needles or pens, or reuse needles.

• 2:58:52Speaker 05

  Don't take if allergic to it, or if you or someone in your family had medullary thyroid cancer, or if you've had multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2. Tell your doctor if you get a lump or swelling in your neck. Stop Zepbound and call your doctor if you have severe stomach pain or a serious allergic reaction. Severe side effects may include inflamed pancreas or gallbladder problems. Tell your doctor if you experience vision changes before scheduled procedures with anesthesia, if you're nursing, pregnant, plan to be, or taking birth control pills. Taking Zepbound with a sulphonal urea or insulin may cause low blood sugar. Side effects include nausea, diarrhea, and vomiting, which can cause dehydration and worsen kidney problems. Talk to your doctor. Call 1-800-545-5979, or visit zepbound.lily.com.