#2489 - Ryan Bingham

Ryan Bingham is an actor and musician. See Ryan Bingham and the Texas Gentlemen on tour this year, and look for their next album, “They Call Us the Lucky Ones,” on May 15.www.youtube.com/@ryanbinghamwww.ryanbingham.com Perplexity: Download the app or ask Perplexity anything at https://pplx.ai/rogan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  The Joe Rogan Experience. Training my day, Joe Rogan Podcast, my night, all day.

• 0:12Joe Rogan?

  What's happening, man? Good to see you.

• 0:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, good to see you, man. Hold on to that microphone, sir.

• 0:17Joe Rogan?

  All right.

• 0:20Joe Rogan?

  You were fucking great at that McConaughey thing last year. I really enjoyed that. That was my first time seeing you perform live. It was really cool.

• 0:27Speaker 02

  Oh, right on.

• 0:27Joe Rogan?

  It was very cool. You were so relaxed up there, man. So, it was like you brought everybody into a nice, like, comfortable chill vibe. It was cool.

• 0:36Speaker 02

  I'm glad you guys felt that way. Sometimes it takes me a minute to get into the groove, you know?

• 0:42Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but it felt like that, you know? It felt like you were in it. Like, it brought the whole crowd into it, too. That event that he does, the two events, the one, the singer-songwriter one, and then the other one with the auction and everything, they're so cool. Such good events.

• 0:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, they're good people, too, you know? And it's, uh, I've really grown to just appreciate the community around here in Austin and the hill country area and all of that stuff. I definitely wouldn't have the career, I don't think, if it wouldn't have been for the community around here, just supporting songwriters and music in the way that they do. It's pretty incredible, you know? When they get behind anything, it's just like, it just feels so good to see that many people come together and, you know, have that support.

• 1:22Joe Rogan?

  It's a really good place, man. Austin is a really good community. It really is. A very positive place in a lot of ways. I mean, nothing's perfect. There's no perfect places, but it's really good. I like it so much better than when I was living in California. It just feels like real people.

• 1:39Speaker 02

  I miss it, man. I mean, I'm in the process of moving back to Texas as well.

• 1:45Joe Rogan?

  Where are you at right now?

• 1:46Speaker 02

  Outside of Dallas, Texas, out by Tyler. I've been in Topanga Canyon in LA for years, you know? So, I've been in the middle of it and...

• 1:55Joe Rogan?

  Doing that Hollywood thing.

• 1:56Speaker 02

  Every time I get across the state line, it's just like that weight comes off and you're just like, "Ah, man, I'm home," you know? So, yeah.

• 2:04Joe Rogan?

  Dude, you had the coolest fucking character on Yellowstone. It must be so fun to play.

• 2:10Speaker 02

  It was so much fun, man. I had the, I laugh, I always talk about it. I felt like I had like one of the easiest jobs there, you know, it's because my, the character was kind of a smaller role, you know, most of the time I'd work like one or two days a week and then the rest of the time I'd just be like fly fishing and get lost in the mountains and just disappear out there. Yeah, it was awesome.

• 2:30Joe Rogan?

  God, Montana's awesome. That show made so many people move out there, though.

• 2:34Speaker 02

  I know. You're gonna take your license plate off your car before you go.

• 2:38Joe Rogan?

  Right, you better not have a California plate. They will fucking write things on your hood.

• 2:42Speaker 02

  Run you off the road.

• 2:44Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, they get upset. It's very interesting. They're very proud to be from Montana and they want to keep it to themselves, like, let it go, motherfucker. We're all Americans, alright? If you got a good spot, you should be happy that people from California figure it out.

• 2:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:57Joe Rogan?

  Don't be a dick. Like, you're American, bitch. You're not, it's not the United States of Montana. Shut the fuck up.

• 3:04Speaker 02

  I guess it's kind of anywhere, right, you know?

• 3:06Joe Rogan?

  Not that much here.

• 3:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:07Joe Rogan?

  Here's pretty inviting. I've never had that experience here. Not really.

• 3:13Speaker 02

  Texas is a pretty friendly place.

• 3:14Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 3:16Speaker 02

  And there's so many different walks of life that have been here for so long, you know, I think up there. And Montana and stuff, man, if you were tough enough to survive those winters and stake a claim up there, back in the day you had to fight for it and they're still fighting for it now, you know?

• 3:29Joe Rogan?

  That does make sense. I mean, and that's also one of the things that's highlighted by the whole series, all the different Yellowstone series, the older ones with Harrison Ford and, you know, they really do explain in a lot. I mean, it's kind of a cool chunk of history to see like how this all got started, how, the kind of people that had to survive out there when, you know, all you had is a fireplace.

• 3:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:53Joe Rogan?

  That's it. You got a fireplace.

• 3:55Speaker 02

  I love all those mountain men stories, you know, Jim Bridger and all of that stuff. It's just like, man, and there is something. You get up there in those mountains, it gets into, it gets in, mountains get into your bones, it gets into your blood and it's a, it's a different thing than I. It's a spiritual place.

• 4:10Joe Rogan?

  It is, and it's also, it's like the most potent art. Like it's, it's nature's art and you don't think of it as art. But God, it's so beautiful. It's like stunt, like sometimes when you're up there, you just have to stop and look like, God, this is gorgeous.

• 4:28Speaker 02

  It's overwhelming if you haven't been out there.

• 4:30Joe Rogan?

  It gives you a feeling. There's like, it's a, almost like a drug that hits you because of the beauty of it all. Like you take it in with the blue sky and you see the clouds and the mountain and maybe there's a lake below you in the canyon. You're like, God, this is gorgeous. It's like you're, you feel it in your, your DNA, man. It's like your, your body knows like this is a fertile, beautiful place that's filled with life and this should excite you. So all your natural human reward instincts are all like, this is the place I should be.

• 5:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 5:02Joe Rogan?

  Like, look at the sky, look at the lake, look at the mountains. This is fertile. This is like life giving.

• 5:08Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah. Several years ago, um, I went to a guide school up there, like a hunting guide.

• 5:15Joe Rogan?

  Hunting guide?

• 5:16Speaker 02

  And, uh, it was a whole pack squad. Part of it, I grew up cowboy and ranching, but I've never really been up there in those mountains like that. And I'm, my dad would always fantasize about that. We'd talk, you know, one day we're gonna go on like a pack trip up in Montana. And, you know, we'd watch all those movies like Lonesome Dove and all of that stuff. So it was always just kind of a daydream and, um, years ago I was just kind of overwhelmed with music stuff and all that, didn't know what I was gonna do and ended up, I just wanted to go up there for a trip, you know, maybe go on a pack trip and I started looking up places and I found this, uh, place called Royal Time Outfitters and they're like, yeah, you know, we come up and you can take, take you on a pack trip or, but we also have like this six week school, you know, that you can,

• 5:58Speaker 02

  train to be a guide. It's all, uh, mule pack and all kinds of stuff, you know, and so I was like, man, I'm gonna sign up for that, you know, and it was, life changing. There was only six of us in the class and, um, you know, spent weeks back in the back country packing mules and horses and.

• 6:13Joe Rogan?

  Oh, wow.

• 6:15Speaker 02

  We just tie a rope between two trees with a tarp for sleeping at night and always post up a couple of guys to watch over the horses at night. And I remember one morning I woke up and it was in June, you know, but we were way back in there and, uh, I woke up and the snow was coming down and I, I just kind of raised my head up and I was looking out at the horses and the snow was just falling down on their backs. And there was that moment in me, I was like, I don't know if I'm ever going back.

• 6:41Speaker 02

  It's like, ah, this is right where, this is where, where I need to be.

• 6:45Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 6:46Speaker 02

  It was, it was tough to come back to a civilization after that.

• 6:50Joe Rogan?

  I think we're doing something with ourselves, to ourselves with civilization that we can't really fully appreciate because we're wrapped in it. And it's not until you get to nature where all that weight just gets lifted off of you and you feel more normal. And you're like, oh, this is where people are supposed to be.

• 7:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, you know, no phones, there's no nothing, no distractions and it's just like you, all your senses heightened, your eyesight, your hearing, your sense of smell, like all of that stuff. And, you know, I remember going into it, you know, I, I didn't know what to expect really. I've done some camping and things like that and grew up ranching and all that. This was a way different deal. And I remember I just had this like backpack full of gear, you know, and by the time I got out of there, like I just felt like all I needed was a pair of scissors and some way to start some fire, you know, and that was about it.

• 7:45Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I followed this one dude, God, I'm trying to remember his name, Clay, let me, let me pull it up because I really enjoy his, his videos. But this dude, he lives, I believe he lives in Alaska, but he does a lot of trips in America, like all over America in the lower forty-eight. And he goes and like lives by himself in some kind of harsh environment. Like he's done it in the swamps, Clay Hayes, that's it.

• 8:16Speaker 02

  Does he like take his kid out there?

• 8:18Joe Rogan?

  Uh, he, I believe he has, he's taken his dog, but a lot of times he just goes entirely by himself. And they're very, very interesting. Like, he starts his own fire. He'll figure out how to get food. He figures out how to purify water. He's taken salt water and made his own thing that kind of distills it into fresh water and removes the salt. Like, very slowly by using a piece of bamboo and fire and boiling the water in the bamboo so that, like, the water evaporates and then drips down and it doesn't have salt in it, apparently.

• 8:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, I love that stuff.

• 8:54Joe Rogan?

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• 9:39Joe Rogan?

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• 10:22Joe Rogan?

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• 11:45Joe Rogan?

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• 11:58Speaker 02

  Just to have those skills, just to know how to do it, like whether you'll ever need it or not, just to know how to do that. It's just so cool. I remember in that guide school, there's a lot of different parts to it, which was so cool. It was like, we did a whole week of like backcountry, like wilderness first aid, you know, you had a guy had a paramedic come in and teach us all this stuff. And then it was a whole week of just like leather work. There was a whole week of shoeing horses. There was fly fishing and entomology and all these just kind of little skills. But one thing that really stuck with me was a fire building kind of drill when we started. It was kind of right when we first got there. And it was pretty wet and it'd been snowing. And there's only six of us, you know, and

• 12:40Speaker 02

  we're guys from kind of all over the country. And I grew up in New Mexico and West Texas, where it's pretty dry. You know, and you kind of build a fire, you can kind of just take some little small twigs and get a little fire going, you know. So he goes, all right, you got two minutes to build a fire and you need to have, you know, like a flame to be three or four feet high. And man, I'm running around grabbing like little sticks and twigs and I'm just, and we have a lighter too, you know, I'm just struggling. It's just smoking and they can't get it going. I look over and there's a kid from Alaska in the class and he just runs over to this big dead pine tree. And this breaks off the biggest branch of dead, you know, pine needles and takes his lighter and just.

• 13:20Speaker 02

  Within like five seconds, has this massive fire going. I was like, okay, that's how you do that, you know? And it was so, just the littlest things, you know, to have that knowledge, you know, and part of it was, you know, he was explaining to us the instructor. He's like, yeah, you know, if you're out here with, you're guiding somebody that's hunting, maybe he's an elderly guy or somebody gets hurt and you get caught back in the mountains and it's snowing. It's like, you better get a fire going and keep them warm real quick, you know, so it was always a, you know, a reason and a purpose behind it, which was really cool. And I'll never, those are some of the things I'll, I'll never forget.

• 13:52Joe Rogan?

  Did they teach you how to start fires with like a piece of metal and like flint, like, you know, what is that, a striking rod?

• 14:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, we did some flint stuff and with like the pitch wood from some of the old pine trees, you know, you can find that pitch wood. And we did some bow and wood drills, so if not a whole lot.

• 14:11Joe Rogan?

  That fucking shit is hard.

• 14:12Speaker 02

  It was.

• 14:12Joe Rogan?

  That's hard.

• 14:13Speaker 02

  So hard.

• 14:14Joe Rogan?

  I did that in the Boy Scouts and it took like hours to start a fire. It, you have to fucking keep sawing. And if you're doing it with your hand, you're gonna blow your hands out.

• 14:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 14:24Joe Rogan?

  Like you better get a bow.

• 14:25Speaker 02

  Get your technique down, you know.

• 14:27Joe Rogan?

  You gotta have the stick on the top and the, the stick that goes all the way to the base thing and you cut a little hole in the base thing. So that it like all the little embers can fall into your kindling and you gotta saw the shit out of that fucker.

• 14:40Speaker 02

  And imagine trying to do that, you know, in the snow or when it's wet, you know, it's like, man, it's, it's, it's just.

• 14:46Joe Rogan?

  Very, very unlikely. You know what's really good for kindling? Fritos.

• 14:51Speaker 02

  Really? All the oil that it's in it?

• 14:53Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 14:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 14:54Joe Rogan?

  It's kinda shocking.

• 14:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 14:56Joe Rogan?

  We were in Alaska and it was raining all the time and there was one day where it stopped. I was with, uh, my friend Steve Rinella took me up there.

• 15:02Speaker 02

  Okay, yeah.

• 15:02Joe Rogan?

  My friend Brian Callan.

• 15:04Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 15:05Joe Rogan?

  Ryan Callan and all these guys. So we went up there and when we got one day, like a ten hour stretch where it was not raining, we're like, we gotta start a fucking fire. Cause it was, it was raining every day for like five days in a row. And we couldn't find any deer. It was a nightmare. It was tough hunting.

• 15:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 15:23Joe Rogan?

  So we, this one day, and we were trying to figure out things to light on fire, cause everything's soaking wet. And so we got some pieces of wood from like underneath the bottom of trees and shit and dead trees that were covered by other things that were kinda sorta a little bit dry.

• 15:39Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 15:39Joe Rogan?

  And we used Fritos. And Fritos, when you light them, man, it's crazy how much oil is in those things.

• 15:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 15:46Joe Rogan?

  They just, and they stay lit for a long time, like a candle.

• 15:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 15:50Joe Rogan?

  And so we started like piling little things. And we, we got that fire. I was like the happiest I've ever been in my life.

• 15:56Speaker 02

  I bet.

• 15:57Joe Rogan?

  Soaking wet.

• 15:58Speaker 02

  Just cannot get, once you get that kinda cold too, it's just like there's almost, you know.

• 16:02Joe Rogan?

  Your cold wasn't that bad cold wise. It was like in the fifties or sixties.

• 16:07Speaker 02

  Just being wet.

• 16:08Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it was just the wetness. The wetness was impossible to get away from. I thought once you get in your tent, you'd be dry. You get in your sleeping bag, you'd be dry. But I had to take a piss in the middle of the night and I had to turn on my headlamp in the tent. And when I did, it was all just mist.

• 16:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 16:23Joe Rogan?

  Everywhere was moisture.

• 16:24Speaker 02

  It was condensation everywhere.

• 16:25Joe Rogan?

  And I was like, oh my god, I'm never gonna be dry. I had to just accept like there's no drying here.

• 16:30Speaker 02

  How long, how long were you guys back in there?

• 16:31Joe Rogan?

  About six days. We had, we had to leave, we were supposed to be there for seven, but we had to leave on the sixth day because a storm was coming in. I was like, I could get stuck. Cause you can get stuck up there.

• 16:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 16:41Joe Rogan?

  We were on, uh, I guess Prince Edwards. Is that what the island is? Yeah, um, you get stuck up there and I was like, I gotta get back home. I gotta work.

• 16:49Speaker 02

  Did y'all get fly in like on a?

• 16:50Joe Rogan?

  On a puddle jumper.

• 16:51Speaker 02

  Little bush plane?

• 16:52Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, we landed in the pond.

• 16:53Speaker 02

  So they have certain windows to get you in and out of there, huh?

• 16:55Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, exactly. And you could drink right out of the pond. Like, the pond was all rainwater and there was no, it was too high for beavers. So you didn't have to worry about jardia or anything in the water. You could just drink right out of the pond. Like, this is crazy.

• 17:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's the best. I've never been, I've, I've been to Alaska only like in, in the winter on a, like, skiing thing, but I've always wanted to go up there to hunt and fish and.

• 17:15Joe Rogan?

  The people are extraordinary. Those are rugged people. Like, when I did a, a gig with my friend Ari in Anchorage. And one of the things, and it was weird because you get there, it's 11:00 PM, it's bright out, like, this is weird. One of the things that we talked about after was like, those people were fucking cool. Like, there's, there's something about living up there, like, where you could die going outside, like, a good six months out of the year. There's fucking bears everywhere. Uh, if you, you, you look sideways at a moose, it'll stomp you to death in a fucking Walmart parking lot.

• 17:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 17:48Joe Rogan?

  Like, it's, it's.

• 17:49Speaker 02

  You better have your shit together.

• 17:50Joe Rogan?

  You better have your shit together. There's bald eagles everywhere. The, the salmon are as big as your thigh. I mean, the people there are, they work together. There, there's like, they're very friendly, but they're very rugged. But they're also like, they realize you need each other. Like, there's a sense of like,

• 18:10Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 18:10Joe Rogan?

  community and coolness. Yeah. You need each other. If you, your fucking car breaks down the side of the road, you could die. Like, someone's not gonna let you die. They're gonna pull over. In California, they're like, someone will get them. They just keep driving. So you just lose this sense of community.

• 18:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, you're not calling, you're, you're not, that's, that's who you're calling for help in times of need is your neighbor, right?

• 18:29Joe Rogan?

  Exactly.

• 18:30Speaker 02

  I mean, even if like, the, the bridge washes out, it's like, here comes your neighbor with the backhoe and the tractor and like, just do it yourselves.

• 18:36Joe Rogan?

  And that makes a cool friendship when your friend helps you out, or when you help your friend out.

• 18:42Speaker 02

  That's what I miss about living in Texas too, you know? It's just like, this, some of the small things or whatever that you, like. Eating up at my place in Topanga, you know, you wanna build some fence or whatever. Like, I do, I feel lucky, I've got a couple of really good friends up there and neighbors that, you know, love to come, you know, work with their hands and, or get their hands dirty and we'll build stuff. And, but like, man, in Texas, you wanna like weld something, you need something with a tractor, some heavy equipment thing, you know, like, you're not getting that done in California.

• 19:10Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 19:10Speaker 02

  It's gonna cost you a fortune to, you know, get someone with a skid steer up to your house to help you move some dirt around, you know, but here in Texas, it's like, oh, man, just call Frank down the road.

• 19:24Joe Rogan?

  There's people that have a long tradition of doing stuff, you know, it's like, it's a real place.

• 19:29Speaker 02

  I grew up like that too, you know, um, you know, people cutting hay and stuff like that, especially when you're young, like, man, we would go stack hay for everybody around, you know, it's like, that was the summer job, you know, it's like, let's just go.

• 19:43Joe Rogan?

  That makes a strong person. People that throw hay around, those are strong mother, like, that term, like, farmer strength, that shit's real.

• 19:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, you better say, I was always a little guy too, so I had to use and learn how to use leverage real quick, you know, roll those bells up on your knee. I, I, I think one of the last times I did that, I remember, is, uh, I was going to school in Stevieville, Texas, and had a good friend over in Glen Rose, and it was the middle of July, and, and he's an older man, and asked us to come help him stack hay in his barn, and it was, and we're stacking it in the barn, you know, so, and it's just like, you're inside the barn, it's just hot, it had to be a hundred and ten degrees in there, you know, and we're talking hundreds of bells of hay, and it was just all we could do. And of course, we're hungover, and we're sitting, you know, in college, we're trying, we're stacking hay, and I was like, I think, I think this is my last hay hauling job right now.

• 20:30Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, those jobs, those are good for letting you know that this is not the life you want.

• 20:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 20:35Joe Rogan?

  Like, get a good rugged manual labor job, it'll knock some fucking sense out of you.

• 20:39Speaker 02

  That's how I got the guitar, man, I, I'd learned pretty quick that the guitar felt a lot better than my hands and that shovel, dude.

• 20:46Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I know that feeling. I spent one summer doing insulation in an attic. It was all that fiberglass insulation. I had it in all my skin.

• 20:56Speaker 02

  In your nose and your eyes.

• 20:58Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you're sweating because it's hot and it's the summer, so it's getting into your pores. And you're always itchy. You feel like it's on you all the time. Also, it's gotta be terrible to be breathing that shit in.

• 21:09Speaker 02

  Oh, the worst, yeah.

• 21:11Joe Rogan?

  And I don't even think we were using equipment. I don't think we used any safety equipment.

• 21:15Speaker 02

  Heck no, you didn't have a mask on or anything.

• 21:17Joe Rogan?

  I don't believe so. I think we just installed it, just unrolled that shit, stuffed it into the rafters.

• 21:24Speaker 02

  Using paint with lead in it.

• 21:29Joe Rogan?

  And then, back then, the gasoline had lead too.

• 21:32Speaker 02

  So drinking out of the water hose?

• 21:33Joe Rogan?

  Right. Oh, yeah. I think it makes a resilient person to drink out of water hoses.

• 21:38Speaker 02

  Heck, yeah, you get tough or die.

• 21:41Joe Rogan?

  You get extra minerals from the fucking copper on those faucet. Yeah, it's, uh, those jobs are really important, like, for a young person to figure out what they don't want to do. It teaches you work ethic, teaches you, like, hey, like, this is, you can get some satisfaction out of a hard day's work and a hard week. Like, you did it, you put it in, feel good about yourself, you know it was difficult to do, but don't, don't, don't, don't, don't keep doing that.

• 22:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 22:09Joe Rogan?

  Figure out a way out of this.

• 22:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 22:11Joe Rogan?

  You, you, you, you gotta understand that, you understand it, you gotta feel for it, you know what hard labor is, but don't ruin your life.

• 22:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, I, I, I feel real grateful. My, my granddad was always a real hard worker, and even when I was 12 and 13, you know, in the summers, or I spent a lot of time living with them, and he always had a job lined up for me, you know? It's like, hey, you're gonna go over here and we're gonna mow so-and-so's lawn this morning, and we're gonna go over here, we're gonna send you out to Ken's, and you're gonna build some fence this weekend, and I always enjoyed it, though. I enjoyed those guys I was around, and, um, you know, I'd, I'd work all day, and then we'd sit around, and they'd drink beer in the afternoon, tell me stories, and, you know, and even now, like, on my own place, you know? It's like, I don't want to be building somebody else's fence, but I'm glad I know how to build my own, you know, or things like that, and have those skills.

• 23:03Speaker 02

  I still love working around the house and doing little projects and things like that. I meet a lot of younger guys and kids that... Sometimes I, I, I guess I have a expectation that they know how to do that kind of stuff, you know?

• 23:16Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 23:17Speaker 02

  They'll wanna come over to the house and help us in projects and stuff. And I'm like, oh yeah, cool, we'll just, you know, I already dug those holes and set up a string line and we'll set these posts. And they're like, okay. And then after about a half hour, I look over and they're just kind of looking at the ground. I'm like, what are we doing here? You know, they're like, I don't have a clue what you want me to do.

• 23:37Joe Rogan?

  That's hilarious. That's hilarious.

• 23:42Speaker 02

  But, uh, yeah, it's, uh, it's, it's wild. It's, it's changed, man. Kids ain't out there mowing lawns no more, that's for sure.

• 23:48Joe Rogan?

  No. Well, there's something about that kind of work, like putting in fences and all the stuff that you see the cowboys doing on Yellowstone and then hanging out together afterwards, that's so like viscerally appealing to people. There's something about watching that life, like it's, you would say it's like a simple, difficult life, maybe. I don't know what it is, but whatever it is, it's like, it's so appealing. Like so many people wanted to be cowboys after they watched your show.

• 24:19Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm. I think it's something goes to, like you were talking about that guy living off the land and stuff like that. It's just, uh, you know, something that's been ingrained in us over thousands of years of survival. And like, we ha- we all have that in us still today and we just unfortunately lose in touch with it cause we're not doing it as much. And so when you get the opportunity to even just go plant a garden or something like that, I think that's it, it's in us, you know, and it's, uh, it wakes up something within that's just been a little bit dormant for a while, you know, and.

• 24:50Joe Rogan?

  I think you're right. I think that's exactly what it is. I think it is like, it's in our memory. Like the memory of our genes that this is like a pleasing life. This is a satisfying life.

• 25:01Speaker 02

  It's like that mama bear energy, you know, kids come, it's just like, oh, it's like, oh man, you know?

• 25:07Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 25:08Speaker 02

  It's, it's there, you know, and it's just like. I realize that having kids is just like, oh, man, it wakes something up within you that's always been there.

• 25:17Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 25:18Speaker 02

  That you were born to have, you know. That survival instinct and all of those things. And I still, that's what I still love about it. Like even at home, being on the road and being in big cities all the time and you're just surrounded with information and screens, man, as soon as I get home or get outside or get into the nature, it just, it wakes that stuff back up in me and it, I feel like it puts that spark back in my eye, you know.

• 25:43Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 25:44Speaker 02

  I try to stay in tune with that as much as I can.

• 25:47Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's clearly so appealing to people that don't experience it. I mean, how many people that are watching shows like Yellowstone never go into those areas? But they watch it, they're like, aww, I wanna live like that.

• 26:00Speaker 02

  We see the, like, prices of horses, it just skyrocket. Like, you could buy an old man's horse for like five grand and now.

• 26:06Joe Rogan?

  I'm sure.

• 26:07Speaker 02

  It's like fifty, fifty thousand bucks for, for a trail horse, you know, which is cool, you know. I hope people are enjoying that and getting something, getting something out of it. Like, you know, I still, I mean, I'm not running a bunch of cows these days, but I keep a few horses around and especially for the kids, you know, and whether they want anything to do with them or not, like, we enjoy so much in the afternoons, go up and feed them some carrots or brushing their tails and just being around that energy. My, my youngest little boy, he's just got, he's got some kinda mojo with animals, you know, and I've got this old mule and her name's Honey and she's got these big ears and she's massive, you know, and I remember when he was like three or four, I'd be looking around for him in the backyard and I'd look out in the pasture and he'd be out there

• 26:49Speaker 02

  with that mule and she'd have her head down and he's just out there petting her ears.

• 26:53Joe Rogan?

  Aww.

• 26:54Speaker 02

  You know, and just like his connection with those animals and then, you know, getting kids up to the house or, you know, that, or from the city that aren't around those animals, their first time around horses or maybe even dogs and stuff like that and you can see their. They're so anxious or, you know, not maybe so scared, but it's just nervous, you know, it's just big animals and stuff. And within like twenty minutes of just sitting them on their back or petting them and then you see them relax. And you see that energy kind of slow down and I just, I love that, you know, I think it's so magical to watch and.

• 27:25Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's another relationship that's like primal, the relationship between people and horses. They do that with addicts. They do equine therapy. Where they had just have like people that are, they have like heavy anxiety and depression, they have them hang out with horses.

• 27:40Speaker 02

  I think even me, I still do, I mean, I, I have get depressed and stuff like that or now and then, and I love being around them. I can walk out to the barn and just being around them and laying on their backs and it's just like, ah, yeah, all right, here we go.

• 27:53Joe Rogan?

  Just touching their head makes you feel better, like, hey, how are you, honey? What's happening?

• 27:59Speaker 02

  They look at me, connect, you know, I get eye contact with them, looking into your soul.

• 28:05Joe Rogan?

  An ancient thing. I mean, they helped us survive. We, and you know, and we took care of them. It's like this ancient relationship. And then when you're around them, that connection like immediately rebounds, reestablishes. I think it's in our DNA. I mean, just think about like how many generations of humans had to survive on horseback. Before anybody invented anything else. It's like if you wanted to travel faster than you could run, it had to be a fucking horse. So that was probably thousands and thousands and thousands of years just cooked into our DNA. And when you're around them, it's like, ah, my friend, this is my friend.

• 28:40Speaker 02

  It's waking it back up. Yeah, it's there, yeah.

• 28:43Joe Rogan?

  It's weird that that stuff is in you. That nature stuff is in you. I mean, that's why we like watching shows like this Clay Guy.

• 28:50Speaker 02

  I love that too. I love that Steve Rinella show, that Meat Eater. I like watching that with my kids and.

• 28:57Speaker 02

  Aren't you friends, are you friends with Remy Warren?

• 28:58Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah, real good friend.

• 28:59Speaker 02

  He ended up being my neighbor when I was in Montana working on Yellowstone.

• 29:03Joe Rogan?

  Oh, really?

• 29:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, and I, you know, I, what I really liked up there was where they filmed the show. You know, it was kind of way out there, southwestern Montana. A lot of folks that were working on the show would go back to Missoula or in the cities. But I was like, man, I want to go get as far away out there as I can. And so I kind of went down this West Fork area that's on the, the. Right on the edge of the most massive wilderness areas out there that goes into Idaho. And the road I was on, you know, was paved dirt, then it deadened and it turned into a dirt road and then I got this cabin that was just way back up and there was no wifi, no nothing, you know, and I just, um, just disappeared out there and, um, and ended up meeting some

• 29:45Speaker 02

  folks and Remy was just right down the road, uh, going towards Sula and so I got the chance to just go there and hang out with him and go stomp around the mountains with him. Such a cool dude. It's like-

• 29:55Joe Rogan?

  Remy's the best.

• 29:56Speaker 02

  Just, you know, like you're talking about going to Alaska, you know, I love going into those places, but like you want somebody like that with you when you go.

• 30:02Joe Rogan?

  For sure, yeah. Yeah, he knows how to get around.

• 30:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:06Joe Rogan?

  And he used to have a great show, uh, well, first of all, he had Solo Hunter where he'd go and film everything himself, which is so much more difficult than just hunting.

• 30:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:17Joe Rogan?

  Set up the, he would carry tripods with him and shit and set it up and make sure the, the camera's on the animal before he would shoot it and then film himself, film himself moving up to there, set up different cameras that could show him executing the shot. I'm like, God, that's so complicated.

• 30:32Speaker 02

  And he's a beast, man. Just trying, just trying to keep up with him, you know, just walking around the mountains with that guy. I'm like, oh, man, wait up, I'll be, I'm coming.

• 30:40Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, they get that mountain cardio.

• 30:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, he's like a mountain goat.

• 30:45Joe Rogan?

  Well, you know, he hunts probably 200 plus days a year.

• 30:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:49Joe Rogan?

  And on top of that, he does a lot of guiding.

• 30:51Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 30:51Joe Rogan?

  And when he's doing guiding, he's like always in the mountains, always hiking. It's like you, you just get conditioned to it.

• 30:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, he's fit. I, I went to Hawaii with him and did an Axis hunt over there. Cool, one of the coolest things I ever did. And, uh, I, I got this buck and we were loading him up in the truck and all that. And he was like, man, I'm gonna, uh, I'll meet you guys back at camp, you know, and it was dark already. And like, I know, you know, during the day we were hunting, it was just, I mean, steep mountains up and down. And, uh, I said, you're just gonna meet us back? He's like, yeah, I'll meet you back. And he just put on his backpack and just took off running. And we, you know, drove down this mountain road to go back. He beat us there about like a half an hour.

• 31:28Joe Rogan?

  [laughing]

• 31:29Speaker 02

  And that was his workout though. He's like, yeah, it's part of my workout. I'll meet, I'll meet you guys back there. I was like, oh, you're, you're an animal.

• 31:35Joe Rogan?

  That's funny. Axis deer in Hawaii is very interesting. Interesting, cuz they were given um to King Kamehameha in like, I don't remember what year it was. I don't know what year they got introduced there, but they're everywhere now. Um, I've gone to Lanai a bunch of times.

• 31:52Speaker 02

  That's where we went.

• 31:53Joe Rogan?

  Bow hunting.

• 31:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was wild. There're thousands of them everywhere. And you're trying to sneak up on a group of ten and then you don't even realize there's like a hundred right here laying down that you didn't even see and then they get up and spook the rest and stand, well, you know, you've you've been there.

• 32:08Joe Rogan?

  Okay, it was in the eighteen hundreds, a gift uh to King Kamehameha from India. And uh, there's thirty thousand of them in Lanai and only three thousand people. I mean, it's crazy.

• 32:22Speaker 02

  We're laughing.

• 32:22Joe Rogan?

  It's the only place where you can go hunting, bow hunting, and you stay at the Four Seasons.

• 32:26Speaker 02

  Right? I think Ripley said he got kicked out of there though cuz he he was hunting so much and you know, they all that red clay there, you know, on your boots and stuff. He said, so the whole hotel was just like red clay everywhere. The the fridge is just full of meat, you know, like blood dripping out.

• 32:43Joe Rogan?

  They kicked him out of there?

• 32:44Speaker 02

  Oh, I don't know if they kicked him out, but like, he's like, well, maybe we ought to go find somewhere else to stay, you know?

• 32:49Joe Rogan?

  Well, just take off your boots before you come inside.

• 32:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 32:51Joe Rogan?

  That's all it is. But yeah, it's that weird red clay and and it all used to be part of the Dole pineapple plantation. So when you're around there, one of the things you notice is like there's layers of dirt, but then there's like almost looks like plastic bag underneath it, like a like a hefty bag.

• 33:08Speaker 02

  From all the farming?

• 33:08Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, so I guess they had a layer of like that kind of whatever the fuck a hefty bag is made out of, whatever that plastic is. And then the dirt was on top of that somehow, and then the pineapples would grow up through it.

• 33:22Speaker 02

  I suppose keep moisture and stuff like that in the ground.

• 33:24Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I would imagine, but it's it's it's disconcerting cuz it doesn't feel like nature. It feels weird. It's like, this is weird. There's plastic everywhere in the ground.

• 33:32Speaker 02

  Yeah. And then you get in the mountains and like those old World War Two turrets and stuff that are up there. And you come across any of that, I mean, it's just like, first of all, like hunting Axis deer in Lanai and like you get up on the top and you're surrounded by the ocean. I mean, what a trip, you know?

• 33:46Joe Rogan?

  I know.

• 33:47Speaker 02

  It's just seeing that and then. Coming across all those old relics and just all the history there, it's just something to take into. Uh, we are laughing because obviously they're trying to like control the population of the Axis deer there. I think somebody, somebody mentioned like, man, just get a couple of Bengal tigers out here.

• 34:05Joe Rogan?

  Exactly.

• 34:07Speaker 02

  That'll thin out the population.

• 34:09Joe Rogan?

  It's thin out the population of people too, unfortunately.

• 34:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 34:11Joe Rogan?

  The thing about them is that they did evolve around tigers. That's why they're so fast. Like they'll jump a string faster than any animal I've ever seen in my life. I have a video of me shooting at an Axis deer at eighty yards. And it's, uh, we have a slow mo of the arrow. So as the, the arrow's coming, it's a perfect shot within ten yards of him. He hears it and phew, and he's gone. It's the craziest thing. Like you, you, you look at it, you're like, how the fuck did he move that fast? This thing's going at least from the actual like leaving the bow, it's going two hundred and seventy-five feet per second.

• 34:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 34:51Joe Rogan?

  And he can get out of there within ten yards. Within ten yards, he's hearing it coming and he's like, see ya.

• 34:58Joe Rogan?

  And nowhere near him. Like it, he was a foot in front of, it was, the arrow landed a foot behind his ass. Geez. That's how fast they move.

• 35:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 35:06Joe Rogan?

  It's crazy.

• 35:07Speaker 02

  How long did you go there for a while or just kind of like a few times trips? Yeah.

• 35:11Joe Rogan?

  Um, we found that the best time to hunt is actually in the afternoon. Because in the afternoon, it's really windy. And when it's really windy, it covers your sound a little better.

• 35:20Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 35:20Joe Rogan?

  The morning's rough.

• 35:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 35:22Joe Rogan?

  The morning's rough. Like the morning, I, I got a couple of them in the morning, couple of times morning hunting, I got a deer. But it's a lot of blown stalks. You gotta walk super slow. You gotta be real cautious. And again, there's a lot of high brush and you don't know where the fuck they're hiding.

• 35:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 35:40Joe Rogan?

  You gotta kind of find a pinch point.

• 35:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, you jump one and then the rest of them sound off. The way they bark and all of that's pretty crazy too.

• 35:47Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's weird. It's a weird noise. What you gotta kind of do is like find where they're going to be and just wait. Cause they travel so much. They do so much moving. You think I'm just gonna go, you know, still hunt and spot and stalk and I'll, I'll find one and I'll. You're almost better off just staying put.

• 36:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 36:03Joe Rogan?

  Just stay in put and wait for them because they're moving all over the place. There's so fucking many of them. It's crazy.

• 36:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 36:09Joe Rogan?

  But. It's amazing how unsuccessful people are bow hunting them.

• 36:14Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 36:14Joe Rogan?

  Rifle, it's a done deal.

• 36:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 36:17Joe Rogan?

  If you want meat and it's the best meat in the world, so it's great. For the people that live there, it's incredible. I mean, they have access to the best meat in the world. Hundred percent, they're gonna get a deer. And so if you have a, but if you have a bow. We went there and then, so I went with Remy. I went with John Dudley, Cam Haynes, and Adam Greentry. Like all seasoned bow hunters.

• 36:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 36:40Joe Rogan?

  Everybody, everybody got a deer and we made a podcast about it. We had a good old time. They had a hundred and fifty people go over the next year and one was successful with a bow.

• 36:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 36:53Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy.

• 36:54Speaker 02

  Taking chances, yeah.

• 36:55Joe Rogan?

  That's how hard it is.

• 36:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 36:56Joe Rogan?

  Because it's like these fuckers are, they're dialed in, man. And they move.

• 37:01Speaker 02

  A lot of people chasing them too. They know the game, right?

• 37:04Joe Rogan?

  Three hundred and sixty-five days a year, they get hunted. There's no season. And then they have snipers that are after them at night. Because, you know, they use it for meat for the restaurants and meat for people and, and they just have to control the population. There's so many of them and no predators.

• 37:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, and still can't thin them out, right?

• 37:20Joe Rogan?

  I know, it's crazy. I think they got a good head start. They eradicated them from the Big Island.

• 37:25Speaker 02

  Oh, did they?

• 37:26Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Somebody tried to reintroduce them, or introduce, I should say, to the Big Island. And they're like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. We know where this is going. He's gonna destroy people's crops and destroy people's gardens.

• 37:38Speaker 02

  And just take over.

• 37:38Joe Rogan?

  And they already have plenty of wild pigs on the Big Island, so they just, they whacked them all, unfortunately.

• 37:44Speaker 02

  It's kinda like the pigs here in Texas, right?

• 37:46Joe Rogan?

  Crazy.

• 37:46Speaker 02

  And it got wild. I don't, you know, growing up here when I was younger, I'd never remember them being like how they are now.

• 37:52Joe Rogan?

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• 38:37Joe Rogan?

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• 39:20Joe Rogan?

  Dedicated US-based identity restoration specialists will work with you until your identity is restored, backed by the million-dollar protection package with up to $3 million in coverage for eligible losses and expenses. Visit lifelock.com and save up to 30% your first year with the promo code JRE. That's promo code JRE or go to lifelock.com slash JRE for 30% off. Terms apply. They don't stop. They have three or four litters a year and each litter has, I think they can have as many as six piglets.

• 39:57Speaker 02

  That's crazy.

• 39:58Joe Rogan?

  They just, and they can get pregnant six months old. At six months old, they can get pregnant and they're ready to rock and they're just spitting out pigs.

• 40:05Speaker 02

  And just tearing, tearing shit up.

• 40:07Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. I, we have a lease out here for hunting land, me and some of my friends. And the amount of pigs is disturbing. It's like you hear them everywhere. You hear them in the bushes. They're all over the fucking place. It's like most of Texas probably that's not like city has wild pigs in it.

• 40:30Speaker 02

  Taking over, man.

• 40:32Joe Rogan?

  And it's all came over on boats.

• 40:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 40:34Joe Rogan?

  That's how it all got here.

• 40:35Speaker 02

  Is that how they all got? Yeah.

• 40:36Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 40:37Speaker 02

  It's importing them in.

• 40:38Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, guys from Europe, they brought boats and, and in the boats, some of them brought pigs and then they let them loose.

• 40:44Speaker 02

  It's crazy, man.

• 40:47Speaker 02

  Tearing stuff up. Yeah, I don't ever remember them being as bad as they were like in the last fifteen years or so.

• 40:52Joe Rogan?

  It's actually bad in California, too. And California has them from William Randolph Hearst.

• 40:57Speaker 02

  Didn't they take, didn't they like eradicate them off the Channel Islands out there?

• 41:01Joe Rogan?

  I think so. They, I think the islands, and they had mule deer on some of the islands out there, too, right?

• 41:07Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm. Yeah.

• 41:08Joe Rogan?

  I forget which island had mule deer. But apparently they had like a, like you could go hunt on one of these islands.

• 41:16Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think you, I think you might still be able to like on Catalina or a couple, but maybe.

• 41:22Joe Rogan?

  Do they really allow those?

• 41:23Speaker 02

  They did, because I know my, uh, my buddy Matt, he did it like maybe the last year or the year before, but I think they're trying to put a stop to it and, and kind of stop it. Those, those Channel Islands are pretty interesting. I remember first moving out there, even just going out there fifteen years ago and, um, seeing the islands out there, you know, and I'd ask people all around. I was like, man, what's the deal with these islands out there? And half the people that I would talk to would be like, what are you talking about, islands? And I'm like, that island right out there. They're like, oh, I thought that was Long Beach, you know? I'm like, really? I was like, have you looked at a map, you know?

• 41:59Speaker 02

  I love maps, so I started, you know, doing some research and figuring out all about it. And, uh, they're really cool. And over the years, I've met some really, uh, cool guys go out there a lot and spearfish and just to go out there to them. And besides Catalina, like Santa Cruz and San Miguel, and you know, they're all like nature preserves and protected. So it's like going back in time when you get out there and, uh, uh, I love it out there. It's such a, such a cool spot.

• 42:24Joe Rogan?

  Did they try to, are they trying to eradicate deer from Catalina? I think I've read something about that. See if that's true. I think they were trying to remove the deer because they said the deer were non-native to the island, which.

• 42:37Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah, I think that's what they did with the, with the hogs. And I don't know, there's like a specific island fox out there.

• 42:45Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, here it is. As of early twenty twenty-six, California officials have approved a controversial plan to fully eradicate the non-native mule deer population on Santa Catalina Island to restore the ecosystem. Around two thousand deer introduced in the nineteen thirties for hunting will be removed by ground-based hunters to protect native biodiversity. Come on.

• 43:10Joe Rogan?

  That sounds crazy. How about just let people hunt them? What's wrong with you? Um, so the issue is Catalina Island Conservancy considers the mule deer an invasive species that disrupts the ecosystem as they consume native plants and seedlings while spreading fire-prone invasive grasses.

• 43:30Joe Rogan?

  Really? I have, I just always worry about conservancies and their, their judgments on things like that because there's a lot of, they want to eradicate all the pigs from Texas or the, uh, from California, rather. They think of them as non-native and they want them out too, but you're not going to. They want to eradicate, uh, there's like elk in California that are Yellowstone elk that were brought there in like the nineteen fifties that they're, they want to eradicate them.

• 44:00Speaker 02

  Like the Tu- like the Tuile elk?

• 44:02Joe Rogan?

  No, they're actually, they're actually Rocky Mountain elk.

• 44:05Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 44:06Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but they're, they're a larger breed of Rocky Mountain elk that they call Yellow, apparently.

• 44:12Speaker 02

  Like in the Sierras or down on, along the coast and stuff?

• 44:15Joe Rogan?

  Tatchby.

• 44:16Speaker 02

  Tatchby, yeah.

• 44:17Joe Rogan?

  Up in that area, in those mountains. Um, big fucking elk, like four hundred inch elk. Like a couple of those elk out there that are in the front, that's where they're from.

• 44:26Speaker 02

  There's, that's from there? Wow, those are massive.

• 44:28Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's from Tahone Ranch.

• 44:30Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 44:30Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and.

• 44:31Speaker 02

  Oh yeah, it's like going up over the grapevine and stuff.

• 44:33Joe Rogan?

  Exactly.

• 44:34Speaker 02

  That's where you got those?

• 44:35Joe Rogan?

  Uh huh.

• 44:35Speaker 02

  Wow, I had no idea that they were that big out there.

• 44:38Joe Rogan?

  It's all, it's the biggest private ranch in California. It's like two hundred and seventy thousand acres.

• 44:44Speaker 02

  I've heard of the ranch, but I didn't know that they had elk like that up there.

• 44:47Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah, one of the rare places. Gorgeous fucking place. But, uh, they also go up, it's kind of funny, they go up to, um, there's a golfing community, uh, uh, higher up in Tatchby and, um, the elk just hang out on the golf course.

• 45:02Speaker 02

  I just tearing it up.

• 45:03Joe Rogan?

  Giant elk, like four hundred inch elk, just chilling, hanging out together on the golf course and dudes are playing golf.

• 45:11Speaker 02

  That's wild.

• 45:11Joe Rogan?

  While they're lying down next to them like twenty yards away. It's crazy.

• 45:15Speaker 02

  I seen, I saw someone, one time I was driving up the coast, I think I was going up to San Francisco to play a gig and, uh, maybe they're the Tuile elk, I'm not sure what they were, but I was along the coast there and I looked over in a field and there was like thirty head of them just laying down over there. I'm like. Oh, man, I didn't even know there were elk down here. It's just, I love seeing wildlife that in unexpected places, you know?

• 45:38Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, they recently just found a wolf.

• 45:41Speaker 02

  Or unexpected for me, anyway. Oh, really?

• 45:43Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. See, see if you can find the story about that wolf that they just discovered in Los Angeles.

• 45:49Speaker 02

  There's a mama, a mama bear, black bear with three cubs now running around in Topanga.

• 45:54Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah, there's a lot of those.

• 45:55Speaker 02

  Lot of lions running around.

• 45:57Joe Rogan?

  Um, there's a lot of, uh, lot of bears. I've seen them in Pasadena and people's pools.

• 46:03Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm. I knew that. There's a bunch out in Pasadena and like.

• 46:06Joe Rogan?

  Look at this. Wolf detected in Los Angeles County for the first time in more than a century. Crazy.

• 46:15Joe Rogan?

  Isn't that nuts?

• 46:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 46:16Joe Rogan?

  Those guys can fucking travel. I had a lady on who was a wolf biologist. And she was talking about like the, you know, they'd collar some of these wolves and they would track them. They would go five hundred miles.

• 46:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 46:30Joe Rogan?

  Like, it's kind of insane.

• 46:31Speaker 02

  I didn't know that. That's incredible.

• 46:34Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's how they learned about them. It's really the only way to tell is to like put a collar on them and track them by GPS.

• 46:39Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 46:40Joe Rogan?

  And, you know, they mean, they're extraordinary animals, like.

• 46:44Speaker 02

  Where were, where were they originating from in, in Montana, Wyoming? And how, where were they going, the ones that they're tracking?

• 46:50Joe Rogan?

  I think the ones that they were tracking were the part of the group that was brought in, you know, in the nineteen nineties. You know, so there was that pack and the subsequent packs that came after that. There were all the reintroduced wolves. And so they would, you know, dart and collar some of them. And when they would do that, they would just track their motion. They're like, Jesus.

• 47:10Speaker 02

  They're covering some ground.

• 47:12Joe Rogan?

  They're covering some ground. They're covering some ground. And it's interesting, too, that they actually make mountain lions kill more deer.

• 47:21Speaker 02

  Competing with them.

• 47:22Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, because the mountain lions kill a deer and then the wolves will steal it.

• 47:26Speaker 02

  Oh, okay.

• 47:27Joe Rogan?

  So they'll come up on the mountain lion and they'll surround them and the mountain lion will go fuck this, I'm out of here. And he'll just go kill another deer. So he doesn't even get a chance to eat his deer because the wolves keep stealing his deer.

• 47:36Speaker 02

  Keep tracking the lions, probably just following them around.

• 47:39Joe Rogan?

  They're smart, man.

• 47:40Speaker 02

  Dirty work, yeah.

• 47:41Joe Rogan?

  They do, they let them do the dirty work and then they steal their food.

• 47:43Speaker 02

  Work smarter, not harder, huh?

• 47:45Joe Rogan?

  So it's, what does it say? The wolf that they found?

• 47:48Speaker 03

  Yeah, this is from when February when they first spotted it.

• 47:51Joe Rogan?

  Hmm. So the wolf was born in 2023, Plumas County's, where's Plumas County? It's traveled more than 370 miles, wow. Including crossing State Route 59 near Tatchapi, there you go.

• 48:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 48:04Joe Rogan?

  They had one up in Tatchapi too that a buddy of mine, it was actually closer to um uh, the city that's down there, what's that fucking city?

• 48:14Speaker 02

  Bakersfield?

• 48:15Joe Rogan?

  Bakersfield, exactly. Wildlife officials now estimate at least 60 wolves live in the state, wow.

• 48:22Speaker 03

  One crossed over in 2011.

• 48:24Joe Rogan?

  Wow, from California, from Oregon. So uh, so they find him in the Tatchapi Mountains, interesting. Biologist told newspaper, oh, the biologist told newspapers that she could encounter a mate in the nearby regions such as Tatchapi Mountains, potentially forming a new pack or continue to roam. What was that picture you just had of the elk? Yeah, that's that golf course, look at that.

• 48:47Joe Rogan?

  Giant fucking elk chilling on the golf course, clashing.

• 48:51Speaker 02

  Flag.

• 48:51Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, look how beautiful that is. God, so pretty out there. Massive elk, oak tree country club.

• 48:58Speaker 02

  Perfect sanctuary for him, right?

• 49:00Joe Rogan?

  Oh yeah, man. And it's just, it adds to the coolness of playing golf. I mean, you're playing golf around giant, beautiful animals.

• 49:07Speaker 02

  I bet those greenskeepers love them though.

• 49:11Joe Rogan?

  They probably fuck up all kinds of things up there. Yeah. It's uh, the wolf thing is interesting because they, they just brought them back to Aspen. And they did a really stupid thing. They, they brought them into an area where it has a lot of livestock. And they brought them in from a place in Oregon where these wolves had all been captured. Because they were killing agriculture.

• 49:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 49:34Joe Rogan?

  So what did they do? They captured them and they dropped them off in Colorado where they started killing cows again. They just do it, well, it's on people's, my friend's ranch. One of them, uh, they dropped three wolves off on my friend's ranch.

• 49:47Speaker 02

  That's tough, man. I've heard that even with the bears and stuff, you know, you get some problem bears or whatever and then they go and drop them out where farmers and ranchers are living, you know, it's like, man, how's, how's that gonna work?

• 49:58Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's the people in charge of these things and making these decisions, they don't understand what they're doing. They're monkeying around with wildlife, nature, biology, and you, you don't know what you're doing.

• 50:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 50:09Joe Rogan?

  You don't, you have no idea. Also, like, how, how the fuck do you in good conscience take a wolf? That's used to killing cows and put them around other people's cows?

• 50:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's already, it's already programmed, man. The dinner bell's ringing.

• 50:21Joe Rogan?

  It knows exactly how to do it. It knows it's easy. They're all fenced in. They, they taste delicious. Why would it stop?

• 50:29Speaker 02

  Or why would it, yeah, why would it chase, chase tougher prey, right?

• 50:33Joe Rogan?

  So now these poor ranchers have to have people monitoring their cows 24/7. They have to have cowboys up all night that are wandering around and on horseback and just looking for wolves. I mean, it's a disaster. They've killed dozens of cows.

• 50:49Speaker 02

  And these are folks that, you know, have been, like, we've surviving on this land for generations and, and dealing with that and, you know. Have, have a history with managing that stuff, you know, probably be the folks I'd wanna ask.

• 51:02Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 51:03Speaker 02

  That's how to handle it, you know?

• 51:04Joe Rogan?

  Well, they would certainly tell you, don't let the wolves in. And if you do, kill them.

• 51:09Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 51:09Joe Rogan?

  You know, but now it's gotten to the point where I think they're gonna have to do something about them.

• 51:14Speaker 02

  Well, they put a like a, well, they put a hun- hun- hunting limit on them, you think?

• 51:18Joe Rogan?

  Honestly, that would probably do something, but really what you should do is hire someone to recapture them. And don't drop them off there. Don't drop them off in fucking Aspen, you idiot. Cause they're gonna eat people's poodles too. Okay, they don't give a shit. Well, if they run out of cows, if some other rancher scare them away from the cows and they make it into the town of Aspen. You don't think they're gonna eat your golden retriever? They're gonna eat all kinds of dogs. They eat dogs in Alaska all the time.

• 51:46Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah, I hear a lot of those, like the lions and stuff, man, coming after your kids.

• 51:52Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 51:53Speaker 02

  You know, there's been that Malibu Creek Park, you know, I've heard a couple of incidents there, you know, hits like, man, they're, they're gonna go eat something.

• 52:01Joe Rogan?

  Especially when they're old.

• 52:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 52:03Joe Rogan?

  When they get old.

• 52:03Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 52:04Joe Rogan?

  You know, and they can't catch a deer anymore.

• 52:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 52:07Joe Rogan?

  And they're hungry and they haven't eaten in a few days, then they see a kid hanging around a little too close to the outside of the woods.

• 52:13Speaker 02

  Mm, I got a big one that comes right by my house. I got a little game trail cameras set up and I got a little fountain right in the front. It doesn't come around when I'm there, cause we got the dogs, you know, a lot, but uh, whenever I'm out of town for weeks at a time, I'll come back and that sucker's just laying on my front porch.

• 52:27Joe Rogan?

  Whoa.

• 52:29Speaker 02

  Massive. And then the other day, a friend of mine was taking the trash out and that's like, it was like, around lunchtime and it jumped over the fence into the driveway and had a dead rabbits in it, dead rabbit in its mouth. Just looking at her, you know, and she's like.

• 52:42Joe Rogan?

  Holy shit.

• 52:43Speaker 02

  They're there, you know, so every time I'm even walking around by myself or with the dogs, you're just like, man, this sucker just being a tree looking at me right now.

• 52:51Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you're just living with monsters.

• 52:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 52:53Joe Rogan?

  Whoo.

• 52:55Speaker 02

  They're there.

• 52:56Joe Rogan?

  California spent more than a hundred million dollars trying to make a bridge over, I forget which freeway it is.

• 53:06Joe Rogan?

  Is it the 101? I think you're right. So they spent over a hundred million dollars and it's still not done?

• 53:11Speaker 02

  Oh my gosh.

• 53:13Joe Rogan?

  For a bridge, a bridge for the mountain lions. Like you fucking dorks.

• 53:19Joe Rogan?

  It's like this idea of like, it's gonna be a bridge, but it's gonna have dirt and grass on it, so it'll encourage them to walk across, so they don't have to go over the highway and die.

• 53:28Speaker 02

  Is it nicer than the roads we're driving on?

• 53:31Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Well, a hundred and ten million dollars is crazy. And it's still not even done. Like it is, like it's, it's so crazy.

• 53:41Joe Rogan?

  So that's what it, early 2026.

• 53:43Speaker 02

  It's like going up to Ventura, right?

• 53:45Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. So they wanna have this, this big dirt mound and this bridge, so the animals can get across the highway. But it's just like, it's so goofy. And they never want people to do anything about the population of mountain lions. Regardless of how out of control they are, they don't do anything about it. They have to hire people, the state has to hire people to go and get the bad mountain lions, the ones that are problems.

• 54:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 54:09Joe Rogan?

  And when they capture them, one of the things they find out is they're, they actually kill them, right? So one of the things they find out when they examine their diet, it's like 50% pets.

• 54:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 54:20Joe Rogan?

  50% dogs and cats. That's what your mountain lions are eating.

• 54:23Speaker 02

  And that's crazy. Yeah.

• 54:25Joe Rogan?

  And they spend money, like a lot of money, going after these mountain lions. And instead, they could make money by letting people hunt these mountain lions and giving them tags and control the numbers. In that place, Tohone Ranch, one of my buddies works there, and they have a trail camera set up on a pond, and they found 16 different cats. That were drinking out of that pond.

• 54:49Speaker 02

  Oh my gosh, that's insane. I was like, when I first started going out there too, the coyotes, you know, and even around like in Hollywood and stuff. You know, I'm like, man, I swear I just saw a coyote running down the street with a pair of sunglasses on. A gold chain. Eating better than any of us.

• 55:08Joe Rogan?

  When I went there in ninety-four, that was the first time I ever saw a coyote. I couldn't believe it. I was staying at, uh, you know, they have those furnished apartments, the Oakwood Furnished Apartments?

• 55:16Speaker 02

  Oh, no, not really.

• 55:18Joe Rogan?

  Like temporary, like for people that are like, don't have a house yet and you gotta move to California quick. They have this place called Oakwoods and you go in there, it's already got a couch, it's already got a TV, it's already got a bed. You're like, okay.

• 55:29Speaker 02

  Like an Airbnb type of thing?

• 55:30Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, almost like you just move in.

• 55:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 55:32Joe Rogan?

  And, uh, I was driving up to the entrance to the place and I see these little dogs on the street. I was like, what the fuck's going on? He's do-

• 55:42Speaker 02

  That ain't no dog.

• 55:44Joe Rogan?

  I was like, oh my god, they're coyotes. Like, this is weird. And so this is like ninety-four. I had never seen a fucking coyote and never even heard of a coyote being out, just wandering in the street. I just couldn't believe it, that they just wander around on the concrete.

• 56:00Speaker 02

  Man, it's, they're, they're everywhere. I feel like I've seen more there than anywhere. You see them more in town than you do anywhere else, yeah.

• 56:06Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, they, well, they have large populations of them in downtown. Where they know where they den up. They den up in certain warehouse buildings.

• 56:14Speaker 02

  Okay, like abandoned buildings and under bridges and freeways and stuff.

• 56:18Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, they like, they live there. They probably keep the rat population-

• 56:22Speaker 02

  Nature will take back over one day, won't it?

• 56:24Joe Rogan?

  Exactly, yeah. I think they probably keep the rat population in check, though.

• 56:28Speaker 02

  Yeah?

• 56:29Joe Rogan?

  If you think about it.

• 56:30Speaker 02

  Yeah. I keep a lot of other things in check, too.

• 56:33Joe Rogan?

  Right, cats. Well, there's a terrible video from Woodland Hills a few years back where a guy, uh, was unloading his car and his toddler was out there in, in the grass, like right next to- And the coyote grabbed his toddler and tried to run away with his kid.

• 56:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, I saw that, man. I, you know, I'm always watching around for stuff and, with my, our kiddos or just people around the neighborhood and stuff. You gotta remind, you remind yourself, you know, they're, they're there and they're not scared of you. You know, they're, they're not afraid. I remember the, one of the first times, um, I went up to Ojai, just north of, uh, LA there, you know? I just wanted to go up there and go hike around and check out the area and, uh, there was, uh, an archery shop up there. And I had this old guy, kinda looked like Charlie Daniels, just big overalls, big old beard, you know, and I walked in there and just to, check out the shop and also just ask him about, you know, some areas to go stomp around and- And I had a Australian shepherd dog at the time.

• 57:31Speaker 02

  And I just asked him where, you know, good places to go stomp around. He said, yeah, you know, you go up there. He goes, but I wouldn't take your dog with you. I was like, really? Why? And he's like, man, those lions are real deal up here, you know? And he's like, you, he goes, you won't see them, you know, until they're on you. You know? And I just, you know, I knew they're lions and stuff like that. But hearing it from, from that guy, you know, maybe he's trying to scare me a little bit. But, you know, there's, it's, it's real deal.

• 57:59Joe Rogan?

  It's real. It's real and they try to downplay it. And because the, all the wildlife lovers, all the greenies, they don't want you like sounding the alarm and killing them.

• 58:10Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 58:11Joe Rogan?

  But their goal is to have zero hunting. Their goal is to have all the animals just balance each other out.

• 58:18Speaker 02

  Ain't gonna happen.

• 58:19Joe Rogan?

  You can't.

• 58:20Speaker 02

  Not with humans in the mix.

• 58:21Joe Rogan?

  No, the humans have interrupted that whole idea, right? So if you've got a city and then you've got wild giant predators, like 170 pound cats that are killing dogs and they're like, you gotta control them.

• 58:35Speaker 02

  Can't manage one without managing the other, right?

• 58:38Joe Rogan?

  And so the first way, the first thing they did to stop people from doing it is they banned hunting with dogs. So if you ban hunting with dogs, guess what? You basically, you're killing most of the hunting. Cause the reality of mountain lions is you can't find them. They're really hard to find, really hard to catch, really hard to find. And the best way to control their population is to tree them. And you get dogs to tree, cause that way you know if it's a tom or if it's a female. You know if it's mature, you know what size it is. You have a really accurate estimation. You can look up at it, oh, that's a mature tom. That's what we're looking to kill. And then you can control their population.

• 59:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 59:15Joe Rogan?

  That's the only, same with bears.

• 59:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, see what, see what it is and decide if it needs to go or if it, if it needs to stay, right? Yeah.

• 59:22Joe Rogan?

  But they do little things to stop the effect of hunting first. So California, you could still hunt for black bears, but you can't use dogs anymore. And so as soon as they stopped the use of dogs, the amount of black bears they harvested went way down. So the amount of bears in the population went way up.

• 59:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, I don't think they, I mean, I know they've been around in Pasadena a lot, but I don't think there's been one in Topanga for a while. I mean, I've been up there, shoot, almost 15 years and hadn't heard of one. This is the first time that one's kind of made it over into that, that area that I know of anyway, maybe up, you know, around the. Malibu Creek and those state parks, but uh.

• 1:00:00Joe Rogan?

  In Topanga, there's probably people feeding them.

• 1:00:02Speaker 02

  Oh, a hundred percent.

• 1:00:03Joe Rogan?

  I've got berries for you, my friend.

• 1:00:06Speaker 02

  Giving them weed.

• 1:00:11Speaker 02

  Some berries.

• 1:00:14Joe Rogan?

  Topanga is great, but it's always catches me out of a fire catches.

• 1:00:18Speaker 02

  Oh, man, I we we got hit hard last year, as you know, the Palisades stuff and man, I didn't. That was kind of it for me, too. I was like, I'm out, you know?

• 1:00:27Joe Rogan?

  It's terrifying.

• 1:00:28Speaker 02

  I've evacuated out of there several times over the years, but um I've got horses up there now and stuff like that. And luckily I had like a uh I always keep a big truck and a trailer just in case. And I've got some friends down in Burbank that have some stables, you know, that I'll have like as a backup plan. And uh but this was just a different deal. I as a crow flies, I could see the smoke from the Palisades, you know, it's like a mile away. And and we were actually working in in our arena there and smoke came up and I was like, shoot, let's just go. Every time I see the smoke, like I don't wait. I'm just like, we'll be the first ones out and.

• 1:01:02Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:03Speaker 02

  Beat the beat the mad rush of everybody that's gonna decide to try to stay. And loaded up the the trailer and the truck and the camper and the dogs and all that stuff. And I was like, let's go. And uh my wife and I went down to Burbank. And I remember we were driving through the night and the wind was just howling like I've never seen before. And power lines are snapping and it's just like trees are coming down and it just felt like the end of the world, you know? And uh we get to Burbank and we pull back in these stables and there's a kind of a big cinder block wall. And I just got as close to that as I could because it was blocking the wind, you know, from hitting us. And the next morning I woke up and I just my throat was sore and hurting. I could hardly breathe.

• 1:01:48Speaker 02

  And I opened the camper door and the Altadena fire had started and it was right there. And so it was just a mountain of black smoke coming over the top of us there. And uh so I like, let's go and let's get out of here. Let's like head north. And I had some friends in Moore Park, you know, up in that area going towards Ventura that had horses. Trying to find some places to go with some horses. And uh they're like, yeah, come on up here. So we went up there, stayed there a night. And then they cut all the power off up in that area because the winds were snapping power lines and they were worried about fires. And and, you know, after doing that a few nights, I was like, let's just head east and go to Texas, you know?

• 1:02:26Speaker 02

  There's only so many friends you can like show up with five horses and a bunch of dogs. You know, like, hey, we're gonna stay for a while, you know.

• 1:02:33Joe Rogan?

  Especially in California.

• 1:02:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, we're like, let's just get out of here and headed back. And you didn't know when we were gonna make it back and they, you know, closed indefinitely or whatever. I was just like, man, I'm, I'm over it.

• 1:02:45Joe Rogan?

  I got evacuated a bunch of times when I lived there, but the last one was 2018. And when the last one, we got out early. I came home from the Comedy Store and we saw a fire coming over the top of this hill. And it was probably like one o'clock in the morning and me and my wife were sitting there. I go, what do you think? And she's like, let's get the fuck out of here. Like, let's get the fuck out of here. Let's just grab some shit and maybe it'll come this way, maybe it won't. So it didn't burn the house down, but my neighbors, the front, front three neighbors all lost their house. And my next door neighbor, his, his roof caught on fire. But my friend who refused to leave, he stayed in the neighborhood and protected his house and guided firefighters.

• 1:03:26Joe Rogan?

  He brought the firefighters to that house and showed them that it just started on this guy's roof. And they hosed it down, they stopped it in his tracks, but it was pretty fucking bad, but.

• 1:03:35Speaker 02

  It's wild because you know it's gonna burn and it's not a matter of, you know, if, it's just a win. And I mean, that's, that's canyons have been burning like that for thousands of years. And even the two masks were setting them on fire on purpose to get ahead of it, right? And control and all of that stuff. And now there's just so many houses and communities back up in there. It's, it's just a, it's a tough thing, but when they, when they hit, man, they're, it's, they just, they're rolling through. How fast they come through, those Santa Ana winds are blowing like that and.

• 1:04:04Joe Rogan?

  It's just very surreal in person. You can watch it on the news and you kind of get a feeling of it. But when you're there and you're driving down the 101 and you look at the side of the highway and you see like these hills in the distance that are just covered in fire. Hundreds of yards of fields of fire just making their way over the top of this hill and burning houses and.

• 1:04:26Speaker 02

  We saw it when the, the Palisades, you know, the Palisades thing would start, you know, from our house. It's kind of a little mountain that comes up on the back and I hiked up there and was watching it. And you could see the smoke and then you could like start seeing little flickers of the flames. And then it was just like somebody dumped gasoline on this thing. And I mean. The flames shot up hundreds of feet into the air. And my wife was on the balcony, you know, the house and I'm kind of up on this little mountain. I'm looking over, looking in her eyes, I'm like, start packing up.

• 1:05:00Speaker 02

  I'll go hook up the horse trailer, I'll be upset, let's load up and just. And you know, the wind was blowing like offshore then, you know, so the fire is like on the coast, you know? And just depending on where that, how that wind is blowing, you know, at the beginning, it was blowing offshore. And then within a half an hour, it just shot up the coastline and just ripped up through Malibu and burned all that coast. Like that's the stuff that you always thought was the safest.

• 1:05:28Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:05:28Speaker 02

  You know?

• 1:05:29Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:29Speaker 02

  And then the next day, the wind shifts, coming back on shore and it blows it back towards Burbank, you know? Going back up like the fourth up that way. And then the winds are shifting again and then coming back across, you know, so. I was amazed at the, through some of the fires that I've been through, seeing the firefighters up there, those guys are incredible, man. Those helicopter pilots, the airplane pilots, seeing those tankers fly through there. I mean, it's just incredible what those guys can do. I mean, if it hadn't, I mean, they, they saved that whole canyon.

• 1:06:01Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:02Speaker 02

  Of Topanga at least, you know, it's like, man, there's so much brush in there that probably needs to burn. It's been accumulating over years, you know, and cutting those fire breaks and seeing them drop the retardant on the ridge lines and stuff. And watching the wind, it's just like, man, hats off to those guys.

• 1:06:20Joe Rogan?

  Absolutely.

• 1:06:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:06:21Joe Rogan?

  I mean, think about the amount of damage that was done in that fire and how much more would have been done if it wasn't for the firefighters? That's how crazy it is.

• 1:06:29Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah, it is, man. I, I met one of the helicopter pilots, I was on a flight somewhere. And we just happened to be sitting next to each other and we were talking about it and just, you know, learning from him, you know, about, you know, the thermals that come up from underneath and trying to hold those helicopters in, you know, in formation and all of that stuff and how heavy they are when they're full.

• 1:06:53Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:06:54Speaker 02

  And then as soon as you release all that water, whatever's in them that, you know, all of a sudden that, the power that they got, you know, throttle's full throttle, you know, when they're loaded down and then they drop all that water and then, you know, trying to get back a hold of it and.

• 1:07:06Joe Rogan?

  Oh, I never even thought of that.

• 1:07:08Speaker 02

  And then you got, then you got ninety mile an hour winds blowing and, you know, and you, I could see them from the house, you know, there'd be like two or three helicopters that would come in, start dropping water and then they would move out and then the tank, the planes would come in and then helicopters back in and then you had the guys on the ground, you know, trying to contain it as well, just the, the coordinated effort between them, you know, I can imagine the conversations there.

• 1:07:35Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:35Speaker 02

  Hey, man.

• 1:07:37Joe Rogan?

  It's so crazy that they didn't have the reservoirs ready.

• 1:07:40Speaker 02

  Oh, dude, so sad.

• 1:07:42Joe Rogan?

  I had Spencer Pratt on, you know, he's running for mayor now, he was explaining it like how bad it was.

• 1:07:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:07:49Joe Rogan?

  How you fuck that up that bad?

• 1:07:51Speaker 02

  It's devastating to hear that it's like, you know that that stuff's coming, you know, to not be prepared for that's just unacceptable, you know?

• 1:08:00Joe Rogan?

  Incompetence.

• 1:08:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:08:01Joe Rogan?

  It's complete, total incompetence and yet they still are there.

• 1:08:09Joe Rogan?

  Like you, you're definitely not good at the job and yet you don't take any personal responsibility and blame everybody else and the problem it's just fucking, it's a problem that happens every few years. Like you're gonna get fires, period. The fact that you don't have a full reservoir is crazy. It's crazy. You should dump all your resources into fixing that fucking reservoir stat, get that shit filled up.

• 1:08:36Speaker 02

  The residents are more prepared than anybody, you know, cause I think they just got to where they, you can't depend on it, you know? I mean, I know our neighbors and stuff have a pretty good program in place. We'll all get together and talk about, you know, who's got fire hoses and swimming pools with access to water and where, you know, evacuation plans or, you know, there's some folks that have horses, but they don't even have a horse trailer up there and, you know, I'm like, okay, I'll come get yours too, or whatever, you know, you know, we need to do. You kind of just have to have that mentality, I think, you know?

• 1:09:09Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, definitely, definitely. It's, you know what's really freaking me out about like the Palisades is what is in the ground now? You know, like how much toxic shit got melted into that ground? Because think about how many people have electric cars now.

• 1:09:27Speaker 02

  Well, all the, all those old houses too. You don't talk about the, the materials that they're made out of, asbestos or lead. And I mean, the stuff, the stuff in the air that was, even if you, you know, you were several miles away from the actual fires, the, the wind and blowing all the ashes and the smoke and all that stuff over. I remember going back up in there, you know, weeks and just trying to get stuff out of the house or whatever, when they'd let us back up and you could still, it would just make your throat hurt, you know? Breathing that air and stuff, so.

• 1:09:56Joe Rogan?

  Right, that's.

• 1:09:57Speaker 02

  It's bad stuff.

• 1:09:57Joe Rogan?

  It's not just wood fire.

• 1:09:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, no.

• 1:09:59Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 1:10:00Speaker 02

  Like chemicals.

• 1:10:01Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, wood fire's hard enough, but the chemicals? Burnt TVs and computers and hard drives and electronics and refrigerators.

• 1:10:11Speaker 02

  Treated lumber.

• 1:10:11Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. All, all that shit's gonna get in your groundwater. Like, it's, it's, it's on the surface, it's gonna rain, it's gonna seep through. Like, what happens to the wa- is anybody checking the water out there? No, you gotta imagine.

• 1:10:27Speaker 02

  I doubt it.

• 1:10:28Joe Rogan?

  Especially like Topanga, I bet a lot of folks have wells, don't you think?

• 1:10:32Speaker 02

  I think there's some, you know, it's definitely all like on septic up there too, you know? I mean, all the, all of the building code stuff's pretty crazy up there, I don't know. It's a mess.

• 1:10:42Joe Rogan?

  I would just worry about even breathing the air that has the dust of all that shit in it. Like, I probably wouldn't want to live there anymore. If, if I was in a place where all the houses burnt to the ground and I knew there was toxic shit in the ground, I'd be like, hey, let's get the fuck out of here and sell our house to China.

• 1:11:02Speaker 02

  Oh, man.

• 1:11:04Joe Rogan?

  Cause that's the other thing Spencer said, they're the ones who are the number one land buyers. In the Palisades, it's China.

• 1:11:09Speaker 02

  Is it gonna be, is it gonna be a golf course resort up there before we know it?

• 1:11:13Joe Rogan?

  Who knows?

• 1:11:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:11:14Joe Rogan?

  Or affordable housing.

• 1:11:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:11:16Joe Rogan?

  One or the other.

• 1:11:17Speaker 02

  I don't know either.

• 1:11:19Joe Rogan?

  I don't know, but it's just, I, I really wonder what the long-term damage of all those chemicals in the ground is. It has to be pretty high.

• 1:11:28Speaker 02

  Gotta be, you know, I don't know, you know, I was talking to some friends of mine out the other day that have grown up there, lived out there their whole lives. And, you know, going over the Channel Islands, you, you know, they've got those oil platforms out there in, in the water. And there's been oil spills, obviously, throughout there through history and, um, but also like when you're surfing and stuff like that, there's oil that's been on top of the ground. It's just like so surface level, it's been there for millions of years, you know, and so. I don't know, you know, it's like, I'm sure all the toxic stuff that happens, how long does it take for it to dilute? You know, there's not much rain or the wind or like what, you know? I'm not an expert on it, but I, I feel like Mother Nature takes pretty good care of herself, you know, we're, we're the ones in trouble, right?

• 1:12:11Joe Rogan?

  Right. Mother Nature will sort it out over time, but I just don't know how good it's gonna be for the people that live there.

• 1:12:18Speaker 02

  It can't be, can't be the long-term, you know?

• 1:12:20Joe Rogan?

  I have a buddy that has a house out there and he lost his house and it burnt down and I asked him about it. And he said, I think what they're gonna do is take all the dirt out of their backyard and then replace the dirt. And I'm like, hmm, okay. I don't know if that's enough, like, cause what about his dirt? What about your neighbor's dirt? What about the, all the toxic shit that's in his dirt that's gonna get down into your ground as soon as it rains? And also the air.

• 1:12:45Speaker 02

  All the roundup and everything else is coming down, you know, it's. It's just, it's, uh, it's sad, man, you know? It's sad, that's just the kind of the state of it, it's like it's. It seems like just it's so far of a mess that even the folks that do have answers that do want to fix stuff, it just kind of becomes impossible for for any solution, you know? It's like all the red tape and all the hoops and things and all the permits or whatever. Like you can't even, you know, the road's blocked. Okay, well, before we could even get somebody out here with a tractor to move the rocks, you got to call 10 other people to get it approved and then the process and then it's that and it's like, that's the part I'm just like, man, I wish I could just call Frank down the street with his bulldozer.

• 1:13:27Speaker 02

  We'll just go, we're just gonna move this right now, you know? And it's like, you know?

• 1:13:33Joe Rogan?

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• 1:14:17Joe Rogan?

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• 1:15:01Joe Rogan?

  the code JRE. That's shipstation.com code JRE. Taxes and fees apply. Well, government has increased so much in California and they just want more regulations so they could justify more government. And so they just regulate themselves to a place where people just want to leave. They just go, "Look, I can't fucking do this anymore. Let me get out of here."

• 1:15:23Speaker 02

  And it's expensive, man. It's so expensive to live there.

• 1:15:26Joe Rogan?

  Meanwhile, it's beautiful. It's such a great place. They fucked it up so hard.

• 1:15:31Speaker 02

  It's paradise.

• 1:15:32Joe Rogan?

  It's paradise.

• 1:15:33Speaker 02

  Mountains within like two, three hours. You can be in the Sierras.

• 1:15:37Joe Rogan?

  The beach.

• 1:15:38Speaker 02

  Joshua Tree National Park.

• 1:15:40Joe Rogan?

  You can go skiing and then swim in the ocean on the same day.

• 1:15:43Speaker 02

  It's gorgeous. One of the beautiful places I've ever been, Yosemite. I mean, get out of town, you know?

• 1:15:48Joe Rogan?

  Incredible weather.

• 1:15:50Speaker 02

  Kern River, like, man, it's beautiful.

• 1:15:53Joe Rogan?

  But they got ruined. They got ruined with progressive politics and bureaucracy that just ramped up all the control they have over people to the point where you can't even buy flavored zins. They banned blackjack. You can't have blackjack anymore. They just stopped blackjack in the casinos, they stopped flavored zins. They just regulated into oblivion. There are all these people that want to be, they want to be the mommy of the world and tell you what to do. Like, fuck off. Like, fuck off with all your goddamn rules. You're just making your government bigger so you can justify all these fucking rules.

• 1:16:37Joe Rogan?

  And you need the rules for the government to sustain itself, so you just keep adding more rules and adding more government.

• 1:16:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:16:44Joe Rogan?

  We were reading about it the other day, like, what was the number that California's government went up by like 24% and their population went up by like 1%?

• 1:16:54Speaker 02

  I know, now you're running, kinda we're running out of places to go.

• 1:16:57Joe Rogan?

  I forget what the actual numbers were that we found, but it's.

• 1:17:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm always looking for hideouts, you know, to kinda get away from, it's like, man, you've, you find a spot to go to, you kinda don't wanna tell nobody about it.

• 1:17:09Joe Rogan?

  I know.

• 1:17:10Speaker 02

  Right?

• 1:17:10Joe Rogan?

  That's what I hear about West Texas.

• 1:17:12Speaker 02

  I think that's hard about Montana, you know, when I first started going up there years ago. I mean, it was just such a, and it still is, it's a paradise, it's just, you know? And I, I think that's probably what a lot of people are upset about, lived up there, it's like, man, the, the secret got out a little bit, and I can understand that, but.

• 1:17:29Joe Rogan?

  I get it, I get it from that perspective, they gotta let that go.

• 1:17:32Speaker 02

  Where's the next place, you know?

• 1:17:33Joe Rogan?

  The thing about Montana, though, or like Wyoming, another example, is that winter will thin the herd.

• 1:17:40Speaker 02

  It's like West Texas, like, that's funny, same kinda thing, like, you know, Marfa and out in that area, you know? I grew up all out there going to junior rodeos and all kinds of stuff, and it was just ranches, you know, and, you know, local diners and stuff like that, and, um, you know, I've heard people going out there and buying houses and, you know, all that stuff, then they go out there for like a week, and they realize that the only thing open at night's the Dairy Queen. And they're, they're heading back to New York pretty quick, you know?

• 1:18:07Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:08Speaker 02

  You're right about Montana, those winters will thin them out, yeah.

• 1:18:11Joe Rogan?

  The winter gets you, the winter's rough, it's cold.

• 1:18:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:18:16Joe Rogan?

  We were, uh, the first time I ever went hunting was with Rinella, that's where I got that mule deer that's on the table right there. And, um, it was nine degrees in October, and we're camping. And so we're sleeping on the ground in nine degrees, I'm like, bro, how did these fucking people? And you also, you go by these old homesteads, so they were giving land out there for people. You just, you can get a chunk of land, just start farming on it, and the government was encouraging people to move there, but.

• 1:18:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:18:45Joe Rogan?

  It's all this like. Muddy ground, like the ground is like mucky. Like when you hike in it after, you know, a while, your boots are so heavy. Cause they're just thick with this clay, yeah, just muck all over your boots. And so it's not fertile. It's not good, like in the Missouri breaks, like that area. It's not good for growing things, so you find these abandoned homesteads. It's really eerie. Man, you just think like this family that came out here in like the eighteen hundreds and they tried to set up shop. And maybe got killed by Indians and you know, maybe.

• 1:19:21Speaker 02

  All the way, I think about my, my family, I've got stories, you know, of them settling in New Mexico and. You know, coming out on a, with a, on a covered wagon with maybe a steer and a pig and then like, yeah, here's you. A bunch of acres and you gotta prove it up, you know, and. Um, dig a hole in the ground is what they're living in a dugout, you know, and dig a hole in the ground, that's where you're living and you tried to build a ranch out of it and. I always laugh, I always talk to family or my grandparents, I'm like, why did y'all stop here?

• 1:19:52Speaker 02

  You just like, you were so beat down, you're like, oh, this is the driest, flattest place, you know. But we're here, the most roughest, you know, I was like, it's only maybe another thousand miles out to California or just keep going, they're like, nope, this is it, we're done, you know.

• 1:20:08Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I guess people didn't know what they were gonna find if they kept going either, like you wanna keep going for like another month?

• 1:20:15Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, just miles and miles of more desert and no water.

• 1:20:19Joe Rogan?

  I mean, how long would that wagon trail take?

• 1:20:23Speaker 02

  Weeks, yeah, yeah, even just like Missouri, Texas and then out to. Through, even like just going through west Texas to get to, you know, southeast New Mexico and all that and you're, you know. That's this rough country and the people have always been tough out there.

• 1:20:37Joe Rogan?

  And you're a sitting duck.

• 1:20:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:20:40Joe Rogan?

  You're a sitting duck, you're slow moving with a wagon, pulling the horse, and you got all your shit in the wagon and they just looking at you from the hills.

• 1:20:48Speaker 02

  Yeah. Wouldn't glamorous.

• 1:20:50Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 1:20:51Speaker 02

  I know my, you know. My granddad was a pretty tough old guy and as real a cowboys you'd ever wanna know or meet, you know. But he wasn't really one to ever brag or, you know, talk or fantasize or romanticize about the cowboy stuff. You know, cuz it wasn't romantic then, you know. It was survival and it was rough and it was work and you had no running water. And I remember him having a conversation with this guy and he was like some, like a tech guy, you know. He'd been at all this website shit or whatever and he was asking my granddad, he said, you know, what's the most, you know, important invention of your lifetime? And I think he was expecting my granddad to say like the computer or the internet.

• 1:21:34Speaker 02

  And my granddad said refrigeration was the most important invention, you know.

• 1:21:40Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:40Speaker 02

  When he was growing up, he was like, they had no way to keep their food cold, you know, other than like root cellar, you kept it underground, you know. So it was just a perspective, you know, I think everybody was surprised to hear it, you know.

• 1:21:52Joe Rogan?

  Well, I think people are so accustomed to electricity and so accustomed to things like refrigeration.

• 1:21:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:21:57Joe Rogan?

  You just like.

• 1:21:58Speaker 02

  Running water, yeah?

• 1:21:59Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:22:00Joe Rogan?

  I mean, when there was no refrigeration, you had to eat what you had, you know, like that day. And then the next day you had to get something else.

• 1:22:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:22:09Joe Rogan?

  And unless you knew a place that was an ice house, you know, that would get a giant chunk of ice and you could have an ice box and stick it in there and cool things.

• 1:22:20Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:22:21Joe Rogan?

  Like, you're fucked.

• 1:22:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, you're on your own.

• 1:22:24Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Well, you had to learn how to dry meat, that was a lot of it. Make pemmican, dry meat, make things that'll survive and last. And, you know, that's also how market hunting almost wiped out all the deer in this country because people needed fresh meat every day.

• 1:22:42Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:22:43Joe Rogan?

  So they were just shooting everything that existed.

• 1:22:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:22:46Joe Rogan?

  And then finally they started looking around and going, hey, we lost all the elk. There's no more deer left, like, let's make some fucking regulations on this shit. And they stopped market hunting.

• 1:22:56Speaker 02

  I did not know that.

• 1:22:58Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:58Speaker 02

  It's interesting, yeah.

• 1:22:59Joe Rogan?

  Beginning of the eighteen hundreds by, you know, the time, I guess. When did they start doing regulations in terms of, uh, hunting regulations in this country? Cause obviously they wiped out almost entirely the American bison. There was, they were almost gone completely and you know, a lot of that was just for tongues?

• 1:23:21Speaker 02

  Nah, man, that's crazy.

• 1:23:22Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, they, they would send them back east, they would pickle their tongues.

• 1:23:25Speaker 02

  Didn't Steve, uh, Reynolds have a something like a show on him? My buddy was telling me about that.

• 1:23:29Joe Rogan?

  He's got a great book too.

• 1:23:30Speaker 02

  I haven't seen it yet, it's really interesting, he's talking about the history of the bison and hunting and all of that, yeah.

• 1:23:34Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I think his book's called American Buffalo, but it's really good. Um, first hunting regulations appeared in colonial laws in the sixteen hundreds mainly as seasonal closed seasons for certain game like deer. In terms of nationwide US law, the first major federal game protection statute was the Lacey Act of nineteen hundred, which targeted commercial and market hunting and interstate trade in illegally taken wildlife. Yeah, there was elk in every state.

• 1:24:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:24:05Joe Rogan?

  And then we wiped them out and there was deer in every state, but now there's more deer than there ever has been before, which is interesting. Congress passed the Lacey Act when modern regulations start, so the nineteen hundreds. Most states had game and fish commissions, hunting seasons, bag limits and license requirements all reinforced by federal laws like the Lacey Act and later migratory bird protections. Well, it's amazing that they did that. We have an amazing system too, like the, the fact that the United States has so much public land. You know, there's so many different places where people can go and they can hike, they can whitewater raft, they can fish, they can hunt,

• 1:24:48Joe Rogan?

  they can camp, I mean, we're unlike any country when it comes to that. It's like the amount of land that we have that's available to Americans that every, it's public for everybody.

• 1:24:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:25:00Joe Rogan?

  It's fucking incredible.

• 1:25:01Speaker 02

  Yeah. I, man, being up in Montana, New Mexico's like that too, and California, but up in Montana, what I love, you know, staying in that wilderness area, like that little cabin that I stayed in, you know, probably didn't have much land with the cabin, but man, there's thousands and thousands of acres of wilderness, public land with dirt roads everywhere, and man, I would. You know, on those days off that I had, I would just drive back in there for miles, man, and just see the most beautiful country, you know, and I'd haul my horse back in the way that the trail heads and just go explore stuff, you know, and you'd head, go over one ridge into the next, and there's a waterfall, and there's another drainage, and it's just like, you know, and this is the wilderness area, too. This isn't even a national park,

• 1:25:46Speaker 02

  you know, it's like, man, this is as beautiful country as I've ever seen.

• 1:25:51Joe Rogan?

  Did you run into any grizzlies?

• 1:25:53Speaker 02

  I never did, you know, I was always on my toes about it, and I'd talk, you know, knowing Remy up there, he knew that area really well, so I'd kind of ask him spots to go check out and about bears and stuff, and he said, man, there weren't too many grizzlies back in there, but you never know, you know, especially coming over from Idaho and stuff like that, so I never did. I've run into some black bears, um, never in any wolves and all that, but, um, you know, I don't know, maybe being horseback, too, I don't know, a lot of those places I never did, but I definitely had my eyes open.

• 1:26:27Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's another animal that I want to list again and make them available for hunting, particularly in Montana and Wyoming, they just have a lot of grizzlies.

• 1:26:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:26:37Joe Rogan?

  They have a lot, and people don't want you to shoot them. They think of it as trophy hunting or whatever it is like.

• 1:26:44Speaker 02

  It's tough, man, but man, you live, like you say, like those folks that live back up in there, you know, they, all they have is their neighbors and people to depend on, you know, and it's like, man, you get mauled by a bear taking your trash out, you know, or something like that, that's what you, your experience is with them, and, you know, everybody wants to keep them as pets until they're in the backyard with you.

• 1:27:04Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. They don't play by the rules. They don't play by the rules, and they're 900 pounds, good luck. A 900 pound giant fucking wild animal that eats everything it can.

• 1:27:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, even like that lion hanging around my house, it's like, man, I'd, cool, you're fine, but why don't you go on down the road, you know?

• 1:27:24Speaker 02

  I don't need you in my backyard.

• 1:27:26Joe Rogan?

  The thing is that you can't do anything about it either. In Texas, you could just shoot them.

• 1:27:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:27:30Joe Rogan?

  And.

• 1:27:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, we don't have that problem.

• 1:27:32Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's how it should be.

• 1:27:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:27:34Joe Rogan?

  Like, you shouldn't have wild monsters living in your yard.

• 1:27:37Speaker 02

  No. And you should have, you should have the right to decide that for yourself.

• 1:27:42Joe Rogan?

  A hundred percent. Not only that, they're gonna be fine. There's still gonna be plenty of them.

• 1:27:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:27:47Joe Rogan?

  Okay, but it'll probably be a more healthy number if they get whacked whenever they eat someone's dog.

• 1:27:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, and have a healthy respect for coming in your backyard or coming after your animals or your kids, yeah.

• 1:27:56Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, they, they should understand that. But just like, we're so goofy. We make laws to protect them that don't protect us. Like, help me out. Like, do you love animals more than people? Like, I love animals, but I'm, I'm on team people.

• 1:28:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:28:15Joe Rogan?

  One hundred percent.

• 1:28:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:28:16Joe Rogan?

  Everybody else is cool, but team people first.

• 1:28:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:28:20Joe Rogan?

  You know, oh, we got monsters in our neighborhood, and then, no, no, no, no, no, we gotta kill the monsters so that the kids can play. Outside, you don't have to worry about them getting eaten.

• 1:28:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, me too. I mean, growing up ranching or farming or whatever, I mean, that's your job, is to take care of animals, you know?

• 1:28:35Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:36Speaker 02

  Animal husbandry, it's, it's, that's your job, I mean, to take care and provide for these animals, to provide food for your family, you know, and, um, and the wildlife that's around it, you know, it's like, and to take care of the land and the dirt and the, the water and the grasses and all of that stuff has to be supporting each other to make it all work, you know? And, uh, at the end of the day, I just feel like we've just lost touch.

• 1:29:02Joe Rogan?

  It's cities.

• 1:29:03Speaker 02

  You know?

• 1:29:04Joe Rogan?

  It's urban environments, it's unnatural environments that have given people this delusional idea of what our relationship is with nature.

• 1:29:11Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:29:12Joe Rogan?

  And, you know, people just think food comes from a restaurant.

• 1:29:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:29:16Joe Rogan?

  And, you know, the ground is for streets, and you drive around.

• 1:29:21Speaker 02

  Sidewalks, pave it all.

• 1:29:22Joe Rogan?

  It's all just this delusional perspective that comes from that sort of urban existence. And I just think that's why people that live in the country and live in, you know, environments where, like Alaska, where you're confronted by nature, they're like more interesting people. They're, they're more robust, they're cooler. Were you saying out there earlier that you rode bulls?

• 1:29:46Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm, yeah.

• 1:29:47Joe Rogan?

  Dude.

• 1:29:49Joe Rogan?

  How many times?

• 1:29:51Speaker 02

  Shoot, I started when I was a kid, you know, riding steers when I was like ten in the junior rodeos and then.

• 1:29:56Joe Rogan?

  You were ten years old and someone let you ride a fucking steer? Really? That's so crazy.

• 1:30:02Speaker 02

  It was like little league baseball, you know, where I grew up.

• 1:30:07Joe Rogan?

  So a steer is a bull that doesn't have its nuts?

• 1:30:10Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:30:10Joe Rogan?

  And so how much less do they kick when they don't have their nuts?

• 1:30:13Speaker 02

  Oh, they're a lot. They're pretty docile.

• 1:30:16Joe Rogan?

  Oh, you found video. How old are you here?

• 1:30:19Speaker 02

  This is, I was like seventeen. This is in Monterey, Mexico, actually.

• 1:30:24Joe Rogan?

  Wow. Why in Mexico? Look at you, dog. Damn, that's crazy.

• 1:30:33Joe Rogan?

  Damn dude, you're good. And you got off without getting stomped too.

• 1:30:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:30:37Joe Rogan?

  Is it just knowing when to release?

• 1:30:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, you gotta know, you gotta know when to get off, that's for sure.

• 1:30:43Joe Rogan?

  And right there.

• 1:30:44Speaker 02

  Uh huh.

• 1:30:45Joe Rogan?

  You're like, that's a wrap.

• 1:30:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, he kinda bucked me off there. He kinda had me over to the side near, you know, but. That's a good time to check out. There's like that gray zone, you know? Either that or you hang on and you end up underneath them.

• 1:30:57Joe Rogan?

  You started out when you were ten years old though. How wild are your parents? Like, yeah, that's a good age.

• 1:31:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, they, you know, my, they've ranch and grew up out there and my, my uncle rode bulls professionally and.

• 1:31:08Joe Rogan?

  Oh, really?

• 1:31:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, and that's kinda how I got into it too. I looked up to him a lot and. See pictures of him riding bulls and then it was just around and I was like, I wanna go try that, you know, and. And man, I just got the bug for it, like, super young. I was like, just. Ate up with it, just.

• 1:31:25Joe Rogan?

  Wow, from ten years old? That's nuts.

• 1:31:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:31:28Joe Rogan?

  And so how do you teach someone how to fall off of a bull without getting stomped when they're ten?

• 1:31:34Speaker 02

  Well, when you're riding those little steers, you know, a lot of time they, they cut bulls and turn them to steers because it makes them a lot more docile. Steers are, you know, typically like. Six hundred pounds, six, seven hundred pounds, you know, compared to fifteen hundred pound bull that's aggressive and. You know, back that wide and horns like that, you know? They're like little steer, you know, I remember my dad or uncle would get in the chute with me and hold their horns, you know, and like. The other time, they just kinda run out there and jump and kick and.

• 1:32:03Joe Rogan?

  Not that bad.

• 1:32:04Speaker 02

  Fall off on the side, yeah, not too bad. And then you kind of graduate up into like the junior bulls and then the bigger bulls and then all and then the harder they buck, you know. So there's kind of different levels you can progress a- as you as you go. But it was a lot different deal back then when I was riding. It was really before the PBR started, you know, there was no helmets, there was no vests, there was like none of that stuff. It was just old school rodeo, you know. But at the same time, I say that, but you know, it's it's it's evolved in such a sport now, like the bulls are just so much ranker now than they were back then, you know. It's like now they're breeding them like racehorses and the genetics where every one of those bulls, you know, bucks, you know, and like you gotta go to get on three or

• 1:32:49Speaker 02

  four of them in the night, you know. Back when I was doing it, we'd go to the, they were still kind of full rodeos with all the other events and, you know, out of fifteen or twenty bulls, there might be one or two in there that were like bad to get on, that would hurt you, you know. The the rest of them were were pretty ridable, you know, to say so and, you know, we're smoking cigarettes and drinking beer back behind the sheets, so you know, that kind of a thing, you know. We weren't training and doing yoga and

• 1:33:14Joe Rogan?

  (laughing)

• 1:33:17Speaker 02

  I like all these guys are today. Yeah, but I I loved it. I I had so much fun and I loved the road part of it, you know, get in the truck with your best buds and go down the road in the weekends and there's always a band playing and, you know, it was just, it was so much fun. I loved the culture of it and it was just a good good times, you know.

• 1:33:37Joe Rogan?

  How many times do you think you've rode bulls?

• 1:33:39Speaker 02

  I mean, I rode till I was about twenty-three.

• 1:33:42Joe Rogan?

  From ten to twenty-three?

• 1:33:44Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:33:45Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:33:46Speaker 02

  That was all I ever wanted to do.

• 1:33:47Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 1:33:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, I wanted to just ride bulls, yeah. And, you know, I rode in high school, rode junior rodeos, rode bulls at high school. And then I went to Tarleton State in Stephenville and rode bulls for Tarleton and then I got my pro card for a couple of years. And that was when like the PBR was like starting up and all of that and

• 1:34:11Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:34:11Speaker 02

  It got intense.

• 1:34:12Speaker 03

  Picture backwards on one.

• 1:34:14Joe Rogan?

  What Jamie?

• 1:34:14Speaker 03

  There's one picture I just lost, he was backwards on it.

• 1:34:17Speaker 02

  Oh yeah, I was probably getting...

• 1:34:18Speaker 03

  There it is.

• 1:34:19Speaker 02

  I was probably getting dusted. Oh no, that's not me.

• 1:34:22Speaker 03

  Oh, that's not you, okay.

• 1:34:23Joe Rogan?

  That's not backwards.

• 1:34:24Speaker 02

  That guy is riding backwards.

• 1:34:25Joe Rogan?

  It is, oh it is backwards.

• 1:34:28Speaker 03

  I don't know if that's on purpose.

• 1:34:31Joe Rogan?

  That seems like a ridiculous choice.

• 1:34:33Speaker 02

  He pulled it off if he did, yeah.

• 1:34:35Joe Rogan?

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• 1:35:17Joe Rogan?

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• 1:36:00Joe Rogan?

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• 1:36:19Speaker 02

  It was cool though. I loved it, man. I loved it.

• 1:36:23Joe Rogan?

  How do you go from that to anything else? Like, how do you stop riding bulls and eventually become an actor and a singer?

• 1:36:31Speaker 02

  It was all very much a kind of a natural progression, you know?

• 1:36:34Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 1:36:35Speaker 02

  Since I was a kid at the junior rodeos, there was always a dance afterward and a band playing, you know? It was very much a family, community deal, you know? Like, you go to these towns and there was the junior, the rodeo was going on and then the dance, the street dance and food and music and, you know, growing up listening to bands play, especially in Texas, you know, you got all the guys like Gary P. Nun. I remember he always played the dance halls and you get Robert Earl Keen and some of the, you know, growing up hearing those bands. And I moved to Laredo, Texas, when I was like sixteen or seventeen when my dad and my mother had bought me a guitar. And I didn't know how to play it much and walked into this place my dad was living at and he was playing dominoes with these guys.

• 1:37:20Speaker 02

  And this guy saw my guitar and he's like, "Yeah, you know how to play that thing?" I said, "No." He said, "Well, let me see it." And he picked it up and he played this killer, like, mariachi song called La Malagena. And I was just fascinated with it. I was just like, "Wow, I can't believe you made that guitar sound like that, you know? I've been dragging that thing around for a couple of years. I didn't even know how to tune it up." And he's like, "You wanna learn how to play this guitar?" And I said, "Yeah." He said, "Let me show you this song." And he taught me the Malagena. It had a couple of little parts, you know, a finger picking part, a strumming part. And it really kind of gave me that foundation, you know, just kind of those few little tools. And then I went up to Stevenville to ride bulls at Tarleton after that. And a couple of other friends that I'd met there that rodeoed could play the guitar a little bit.

• 1:38:05Speaker 02

  And they had bands that played every weekend in the town. There was a little bar there called City Limits where all these bands would come play, like Jason Bolin and the Cross-Canadian Rag Week guys and Pat Green and Robert Earl Keen. Like, all the Texas guys would come play, you know? So I was like, I went from being on the border... Kind of just mostly like the Correos and Tejano bands that I would see, which was really cool, but when I got up there, I was like, oh, man, there's all these like cool kind of song, you know, guys writing the original music and songs and playing in bands and we'd go watch them all the time. And as I was still rodeoing, the only song I knew was that Malagang tune. So I was like, I gotta come up with some new stuff. That's

• 1:38:46Speaker 02

  all I know how to play, you know. So I went and got a book of chords to teach myself some new chords on the guitar and we'd just learn one or two at a time and I'd start making up songs about our adventures on the weekends, you know. A lot of it was just sitting in the back of the truck and being in places where you didn't have radio signal or, you know, nothing to really listen to. You're tired of listening to the same old stuff. And I'd make up songs and then whatever town we would get to, my buddies would be like, man, play that song you were singing in the backseat, you know. And so that's how the whole songwriting thing started. And then I ended up getting a job working for a guy named Mac Altizer. He had a rodeo company called Bag Company Rodeo in Del Rio. And I'd ridden bulls at some of his rodeos and knew him. My uncle had knew him, you know,

• 1:39:31Speaker 02

  over the years. And so I was kind of familiar with that whole thing and started working for him on the ranch and helping with some of the rodeo stuff and still riding bulls. And he found out that I could play the guitar and sing a few songs. And he always had a party at the rodeo. He was kind of notorious and famous for having like just awesome parties. And he's like, man, all right, Bingham, get your guitar. You're gonna play like the after party, you know, and pull the flatbed trailer up there for the hospitality tent for all the contestants after the rodeo. And those are like the first, he really encouraged me to like start playing for people and doing that. And then it would just spill over into the bars afterwards, after the rodeo. And everybody would end up going to the bar and there was like, Bingham, bring your guitar with you. And I started getting gigs in the

• 1:40:15Speaker 02

  bars. The bars would ask me if I wanted to come back and play. And just after like, I feel like a few years of that, it was just like. You know, I was kind of a weekend warrior riding bulls. I was definitely not making a living doing it. Always had to have a day job during the week, you know, either working on the ranch or doing something. And I started getting to where I could go to these bars and make like a hundred bucks in tips, you know, within a couple of hours and get free beer and free food. And I was like, man, this is almost as much as I made all day digging holes with the shovel. It didn't take me long to figure out that that was pretty cool. And I was just like, I'm gonna stick with it.

• 1:40:55Joe Rogan?

  What an organic sort of a journey, you know, like a natural progression.

• 1:41:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, and I didn't have high expectations, you know, but I just like, and I was talking about kind of community in this Austin area and in Texas in general. It's just like, man, people were so supportive then. I'm just like, if you had a song to play it, people loved live music. They're like, yeah, get up and play, you know, like Mac with the rodeo company and all the guys that worked there, Dave Jennings and Casey and Smur. There's a whole crew, the Bad Company crew from those days. And they always had kind of the Bad Company house band too, where everybody would get up and try to play a song. And it's just like, man, we don't care if it's any good or not, just get up there and play. We're all, we're all in it together. And there were so many like places that were like that, that I don't think if I was in that environment, I probably would have never pursued it, you know. I've had so many people, you know, supporting you and encouraging

• 1:41:46Speaker 02

  you to try it. And it took me a long time, you know, to work stuff out and learn because I didn't have any really formal music, musical background or lessons or training. I'd have really just learned it on the road and playing in bars and from other musicians.

• 1:42:02Joe Rogan?

  Really? So no lessons at all? Just kind of figuring it out along the way?

• 1:42:07Speaker 02

  Yeah. Well, they got, you know, the guy taught me the La Malagana there, but then after that, it was just, you know, anybody else who had a guitar and might know a song, you know, like, oh, what chord, how do you play that chord? You're like, oh, you play it like this, you know?

• 1:42:22Joe Rogan?

  Wow. So how many years were you doing that before you got Yellowstone?

• 1:42:31Speaker 02

  Oh gosh, for a while, I mean, I think my, you know, I was twenty-two or something like that in Stevieville, you know, Ryan Bull's starting to play songs, trying to play gigs. After, you know, ended up moving down here to New Braunfels in the Austin area, playing music for a while, and then ended up going out to Los Angeles and playing, and then hit the road with the band for, I think I had four or five albums or so, you know, out, you know, and been touring for five or six years. I think, how old was I, like, when Yellowstone started? Like thirty-six, thirty-seven? So, yeah, I'd been playing, doing the music stuff for a long time.

• 1:43:16Joe Rogan?

  Hmm, and so how did the Yellowstone, how'd you go from music to Yellowstone? Like, how'd you even, did you do any act, acting before that?

• 1:43:24Speaker 02

  No, I'd been one of, I'd done a film with Jeff Bridges years ago called Crazy Heart, and wrote some songs for that movie. And that was really my own thing.

• 1:43:32Joe Rogan?

  Oh, I remember that movie. That was a good movie.

• 1:43:34Speaker 02

  It was pretty cool. You know, I was just like, Jeff Bridges plays a musician in the show, and I, and we're like the backup band at the bowling alley for one of the scenes, you know, which was really cool. And then, written some songs for some other films and some TV shows since then, and I met a guy named John Lenson out in, in Los Angeles, a producer, and his dad Art Lenson, they did like Sons of Anarchy, a bunch of shows and a bunch of great movies, and he introduced me to Taylor. And Taylor was, I think it was that movie Wind River, his first movie. You know, I'd met Taylor, and just kind of talked about music and stuff, and he wanted me to write a song for Wind River.

• 1:44:18Speaker 02

  And I'd given it a shot a couple of times, never really had anything that fit for what he wanted, but he ended up using a song that I'd already written. And then we just kind of kept in touch, and then when the Yellowstone thing came up, he got in touch again about writing some songs for the show. And then he learned that I used to do all the rodeo stuff, I think, and grew up ranching, and he's like, well, shoot, you can do a lot of this stuff, I gotta find a way to get you in the show, you know? And it literally went from the conversation, it was like, well, I don't, I don't know what I'm gonna do with you, but I'm, I'll find something to do with you, you know? And he literally said, he's like, you know, if you do good, I'll, you know, he goes, if you suck, I'll kill you off. If you do good, I'll keep you on.

• 1:44:59Speaker 02

  Something like that, you know, I'm like.

• 1:45:01Joe Rogan?

  So you have no formal acting, like, training or anything?

• 1:45:05Speaker 02

  No, not at all.

• 1:45:06Joe Rogan?

  That's what's amazing, dude, you're really good.

• 1:45:09Speaker 02

  Oh, I appreciate that, you know, I get to kind of play a cowboy and be a little bit of myself.

• 1:45:15Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but it's, that role's got some complexity to it. It's not just a cowboy, it's like you've got some complicated scenes, you know, some emotional scenes, some deep scenes, and you're really good, man.

• 1:45:28Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 1:45:28Joe Rogan?

  That's impressive.

• 1:45:29Speaker 02

  I appreciate that, it was, I enjoyed it, you know, I hadn't done much acting at all and, um, I gotta give a lot of credit to the actors that are on the show too, you know, those folks that have really studied it and paid their dues learning that craft, you know, they really create the environment, you know, especially for me not knowing much about it, you know, and just kind of being a part of the scene, like, they're so good that they make you react in a certain way.

• 1:45:55Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:45:55Speaker 02

  You know, they know how to get it out of you.

• 1:45:57Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:45:58Speaker 02

  You know, Cole and Kelly and Luke and all those folks, you know, they're like, they know how to set up the scene, and they know what they're doing, so they already kind of have the whole thing set up, and so when I walk into a scene and they say they're lying to me, it's just like, oh, okay, yeah, I gotta answer.

• 1:46:13Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:46:14Speaker 02

  I like, I'm just like, kind of like naturally, you know, answering that, you know?

• 1:46:18Joe Rogan?

  Right, right, yeah, it's like, if you work with a really good actor, sometimes you forget they're acting, you're like, oh, like, oh yeah, we're acting, like, you seem like this is really happening.

• 1:46:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, for me, like, I think there was moments when I thought it was really happening, yeah.

• 1:46:33Joe Rogan?

  How long did it take before you got comfortable, like, doing that on camera?

• 1:46:37Speaker 02

  Still not.

• 1:46:38Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 1:46:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, still not, yeah.

• 1:46:40Joe Rogan?

  Well, you play it off good.

• 1:46:41Speaker 02

  Well, thanks, you know? I think some of it comes from the riding bulls, you know, you learn how to channel that anxiety or fear into just like, oh, okay, it's go time, let's just like,

• 1:46:51Joe Rogan?

  Dude.

• 1:46:52Speaker 02

  Pull it together and, and channel that, you know?

• 1:46:54Joe Rogan?

  If you could ride a bull, I think you could kind of do basically anything.

• 1:46:59Speaker 02

  Man, I, you, you know, that's one thing my uncle taught me when I was young, you know, he, he was really quick to be like, man, it doesn't matter how strong you are, you know, it's not about, it's all mental, it's all in your mind, and it's all. Uh, it's not, I think I can, it's, I know I can and I will.

• 1:47:16Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:47:16Speaker 02

  You know, and he goes, if you don't, if you don't believe that every time you go put your rope on one of those, on their backs, he's like, it ain't gonna happen.

• 1:47:23Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:47:24Speaker 02

  He says, you see, you don't, it's not being cocky, it's just being confident, you know? And believing in yourself and, and having that, that power of mind over matter, you know?

• 1:47:34Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, if you could do that, acting's easy.

• 1:47:37Speaker 02

  And take that in anything in life.

• 1:47:38Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:47:39Speaker 02

  And I, and I do, because I, I definitely have moments where, you know, I'm like, oof. Okay, take a deep breath.

• 1:47:45Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:47:46Speaker 02

  It's go time, let's go, you know?

• 1:47:48Joe Rogan?

  Well, especially having more than a decade of doing that with bulls.

• 1:47:53Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:47:54Joe Rogan?

  Like, that, that's so uncontrollable. Like, it is like, you're at the mercy of fate and how this plays out.

• 1:48:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:48:03Joe Rogan?

  And you have this enormous beast and you've chosen to scare the shit out of yourself. Get on top of this thing and try to ride it.

• 1:48:10Speaker 02

  You chose to join, join the dance.

• 1:48:12Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. If you could do that, if you could do that and be successful at that, I kinda think you could do anything. I think that, that, I mean, I wouldn't want my kid to do it at ten, but fuck, it's probably, if they could survive, pretty valuable.

• 1:48:25Speaker 02

  I laugh, I really pick two of the easiest professions, you know? Riding bulls and playing music, like.

• 1:48:32Joe Rogan?

  Right, two, two that have the least amount of success ratio.

• 1:48:36Speaker 02

  Impossible tasks, you know?

• 1:48:38Joe Rogan?

  Well, did you get, ever get any serious injuries?

• 1:48:41Speaker 02

  Uh, you know, I was fortunate, like, not serious, here, there was one, the worst I ever, I got knocked all these teeth out. I got jerked down one night in Weatherford and, um, took my lip off and my teeth went through down here and,

• 1:48:55Joe Rogan?

  Aye.

• 1:48:56Speaker 02

  These are all fake up here and then my lip was just hanging right through, what was, it didn't knock me out, which was wild, though. I got on this bull and I remember it was in Weatherford, Texas. And it's got a butler arena there. And he had this little Angus bull there. Didn't have horns on him, little muley. And usually you can go up to the guys that own the bulls. And a lot of the bulls have patterns, you know, that they'll do over and over. You know, so you can kind of talk to the stock contractor or the guys that own them. Be like, hey, you know, what's this bull generally do? And he's like, ah, most time they'll take two jumps out and they spin to the left. Or they take two jumps and then they go to the right. Or, oh, they just, you know, they'll jump kick around and make a circle. And he goes, man, he goes, I don't know. He's like, the last two times I bucked, he hadn't been ridden.

• 1:49:41Speaker 02

  He usually jumps out there and just spins right in the gate. And he said, nobody's really ridden him past three or four seconds. So he goes, I don't know what he's gonna do after that. And sure enough, that's what happened. I got on him and he jumped out and just got it on right there in the gate, just spinning right there. And I rode him through it like three or four rounds. And after I rode him, like, I think the bully didn't know what to do next. He got a little frustrated and he just stopped. And just stopped dead still and just blowing and just, you know, just mad. And you never really want to jump off of them when they're still like that. Cause you just, you'll fall right beside them, you know? So you want them to have a little momentum. So when you, you know, you're checking out, you can get away from them.

• 1:50:22Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:50:23Speaker 02

  And so I spurred him a little bit to get him to jump. So when he jumped, I could jump off. But when I spurred him, it just jumped off, straight up off the ground like a cat off all fours. And when he came crap, and when he jumped up like that, I, you know, kind of rocked me back on, back like that. My hand's still tied in the rope. And then when he came down, he just brought all that, jerked me down with the fours. And I came forward and he threw his head back and I just head butted him.

• 1:50:47Joe Rogan?

  Boom!

• 1:50:50Speaker 02

  And when he did, and then my hand was still caught in the rope. And then he took off running around, just drug me around and just stomped the crap out of me. You know, for a bit. And I finally got loose and I remember running over to the fence. And I just, you know, I kind of had my arms on the fence. And I could see all the blood just kind of pouring down all over me. And one of the bullfighters ran up and he looks at me and goes, oh, buddy.

• 1:51:15Speaker 02

  He's like woo. And uh.

• 1:51:18Joe Rogan?

  So they have to stitch your lip lip back on?

• 1:51:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, you know, and the shock was just, I didn't feel anything. Like I was just like in shock and I was like, oh, man, you know, I remember like my girlfriend was there from high school and my buddy and um we drove to the little, you know, they're like, you want to call ambulance? I was like, nah, I don't have health insurance, call no ambulance, you know, and um got my buddy's car and we drove her over to the emergency room in Weatherford and I go in and the nurse, she's just like, oh, man, she's like, we can't do anything for you here. You're gonna have to go to like Dallas to like the trauma, you know, you're gonna have to get like an oral surgeon to put you back together. And uh she goes, you want me to, you know, get you an ambulance there? And I was like, no, I think we can make it, you know, and she's like, she gave me some pain pills.

• 1:52:02Speaker 02

  She goes, don't take these now, she goes, hold on to these and then when you get to Dallas, then take them because you're probably gonna have to wait, you know, before they can, because it's three or four in the morning, before they can get somebody in there to see us. And uh sure enough, we got to Dallas and I'm just sitting there in the weight room and I had a rag and I was just holding my mouth together and uh the shock wore off, man, and then it's, you know, I was starting to feel it. Took those pain meds and then doctor came in and held me back and gave me a big shot in the roof of my mouth, tried to numb everything and just, I think it took them longer to clean it all up, you know, pull all the hair and dirt out of there and sew me up and, oh, it was an ordeal, you know, for sure.

• 1:52:45Speaker 02

  For months after that, you know, getting the dental work done, all that crap.

• 1:52:49Joe Rogan?

  So how was the the lip hanging off?

• 1:52:53Speaker 02

  It bit it all, it would have came all the way off, it was just hanging on right here by the side, so it was just hanging down.

• 1:52:59Joe Rogan?

  And so they just had to stitch the lower part to the upper part and put it all together again?

• 1:53:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, just all across, right through the middle and kinda, if I shave, I got a big scar that kinda goes down there. And then they went through down here, um so I got some stitches down there and then most of the stitches were all in my my gums and all of that.

• 1:53:15Joe Rogan?

  So they had to put like posts and implants and all that stuff?

• 1:53:18Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:53:19Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:53:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:53:20Joe Rogan?

  That shit takes forever, huh?

• 1:53:22Speaker 02

  Kinda knocked the front four out and then it just dominoed the rest of them, man, this.

• 1:53:29Joe Rogan?

  Riding bulls with no health insurance is wild. That's crazy, man. That's crazy.

• 1:53:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, that was just life back then for me, you know, and I think going into the music stuff was like,

• 1:53:45Speaker 02

  I don't know, I just wasn't really scared about it, or even the expectations of making it, or I mean, to me at the time, I had a truck and a camper on it and I was like, man, I was like, I got no bills, I got no responsibilities, I'm just like, go make a hundred bucks a night playing music in a bar. I was like, this is the dream, you know, I'm like, I made it.

• 1:54:04Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Well, I think when you've done something super, super difficult, everything else seems easier. And if you've done what you did with riding bulls for that long, like, the music business is like, that's the worst that could happen.

• 1:54:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, even the travel part, you know, like, you know, in the early days of playing, when I really decided I was gonna try to make a run and play, you know, and it was like, oh, what, we gotta get in a van and go drive around and

• 1:54:32Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:54:32Speaker 02

  play in bars, you know, and I was like, we've been doing that rodeoing for years, you know, you sleep in the back of the truck or whatever, and it was fun for us, we loved it.

• 1:54:40Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:54:41Speaker 02

  So the idea of like, starving on the road, playing in a band, playing music, I was like, let's go.

• 1:54:50Speaker 02

  And, and getting a guaranteed paycheck every night, you know?

• 1:54:53Joe Rogan?

  Right, the gratitude you must have.

• 1:54:55Speaker 02

  The riding bulls, I mean, half the time, you know, you walked away with nothing.

• 1:54:58Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:54:58Speaker 02

  You know?

• 1:54:59Joe Rogan?

  And you're risking your life.

• 1:55:00Speaker 02

  A busted lip, nothing, you know?

• 1:55:02Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and no health insurance, and you're risking your life, and there's not a bunch of people that love you.

• 1:55:07Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:55:08Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:55:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:55:10Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's a great base to start out from, you know? I mean, it sounds like, it's almost like the universe engineered this path for you to go down. Like, if you wanted to pick a path

• 1:55:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:55:22Joe Rogan?

  that would bring you to where you are right now, it is the perfect set of circumstances.

• 1:55:29Speaker 02

  I look at it all the time, you know, just from an outside perspective, I guess, and just like, wow, how in the world all this come together and just a lot of luck and perseverance or whatever. And I I wouldn't say I haven't worked hard at it, you know, I feel like I have and all that, but it there are a lot of luck out there and a lot of good people too, you know. Lot of good people helped me out along the way and gave me gas money and gave me a place to sleep or place to eat and helped us get other gigs and other, I mean, I remember going from one town to the next and not having gas money to get to the next and having no plan other than like, let's just head west or head east and, you know, you'd go play at a bar and sure enough, there'd be somebody there that were they like, oh, man, y'all should come back to my house.

• 1:56:13Speaker 02

  We'll have bonfire and play some songs. And he's like, oh, my brother's got a bar in Phoenix. And he's like, call them on your way out, you know, we'd go there and and we'd always like, chop firewood or wash dishes or wood mow your lawn or wash your car on the way to like, to get gas money and keep on going, you know.

• 1:56:29Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:56:29Speaker 02

  So that was just kind of how I always I I I felt like I learned early, if you were willing to help yourself, you know, there's people would help you all day long.

• 1:56:38Joe Rogan?

  I think luck is a factor, but it's only a factor if you've already had all those other experiences. Like, think about it, if you hadn't ridden bulls, you hadn't gone through all the ranching, all the hard labor, all the different things, then like, you probably wouldn't have capitalized on that luck the same way.

• 1:56:59Speaker 02

  No, not at all, huh?

• 1:57:00Joe Rogan?

  Your character wouldn't be the same.

• 1:57:02Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:57:03Joe Rogan?

  You know, it's like part, part of who you are is the character that you've developed from what you've done.

• 1:57:09Speaker 02

  It kind of conditioned me to do it in a way, in a big way.

• 1:57:12Joe Rogan?

  And it seems like it's your life, it almost like it's engineered for this to happen, the way it happened.

• 1:57:17Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 1:57:18Joe Rogan?

  It's kind of crazy.

• 1:57:19Speaker 02

  It's been cool, man, I feel.

• 1:57:21Joe Rogan?

  Very storybook.

• 1:57:22Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 1:57:23Joe Rogan?

  You know?

• 1:57:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:57:24Joe Rogan?

  Very like movie, like a plot in a movie, guy who's a cowboy, bull rider, starts singing songs, people like, hey, you should probably do this for a living. And then someone's like, hey, man, you should be on TV. You know, the next thing you know, you're on one of the biggest hits in the world.

• 1:57:41Speaker 02

  I feel like that's that song, you know, one day they're gonna put me in the movie.

• 1:57:44Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:57:44Speaker 02

  The bucko, and I was like, I was like, how am I living this thing right now, you know? It's like, I know, I meet people all the time, and they're like, oh, like, you know, they can't really believe where I'm from or whatever, they just think it's some like, made up story. Oh, yeah, all right, man, you know?

• 1:58:02Joe Rogan?

  Well, it seems like a story that someone would make up if they wanted to pretend to be a cowboy.

• 1:58:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, I think a lot of people have.

• 1:58:08Joe Rogan?

  I bet, right? I bet, yeah.

• 1:58:10Speaker 02

  And a lot of people still do.

• 1:58:11Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, isn't that funny? That's funny, that's like stolen valor, almost.

• 1:58:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think like, in all kinds of stuff, you know, professions or whatever, you know, people pretend to be the

• 1:58:23Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:58:24Speaker 02

  What it is. Would you, would you mind if I went to the restroom?

• 1:58:27Joe Rogan?

  Oh, no, no, no, not at all, I totally understand.

• 1:58:29Speaker 02

  I want to keep talking about, I don't want to stop this.

• 1:58:31Joe Rogan?

  Let's pause, take a leak, we'll be right back, folks. And we're back.

• 1:58:37Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's, um, it's kind of funny that people would want to fake the life that you've lived, but that is such a romantic story. Like, it's such a, like, it's such a movie, that it makes sense that people want to fake. It's gotta be weird walking around, like, having lived a life that people would want to fake and pretend that they lived.

• 1:58:58Speaker 02

  It is, it is sometimes, you know, and it's like, uh, you know, I remember when I really started for, you know, playing music and stuff, I mean, I wore a cowboy hat all the time, that's, I rode bulls and, you know, it's my, very much my identity, you know, but nope, cowboy stuff wasn't really cool then, you know, I like, feel like in the, uh, early 2000s and all of that, you know, and there wasn't a lot of big, there wasn't a big Americana scene, or, you know, any of that kind of stuff, you know, and, um, definitely going to New York, or going to Los Angeles and touring around, like, I'd be the only one wearing a cowboy hat, you know?

• 1:59:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, I remember, I think the first time, one time I was in LA, we were out on the Santa Monica Pier, and there was a guy that had like, the one man band thing, you know, out there, and there's all these tourists on the pier, and I'm just like, out there checking out the scenery, and just minding my own business, and this guy gets on the microphone, and he just points over at me, goes, "Oh, Brokeback Mountain."

• 1:59:58Speaker 02

  And everybody on the pier turned around and looked at me, they're just pointing at me and laughing at me and I'm just like, ah, okay, you know? So I was like, that was the association with the cowboy hat at the time, you know?

• 2:00:07Joe Rogan?

  That's hilarious. Yeah, they changed cowboys for a while.

• 2:00:14Speaker 02

  Now it's a whole new ballgame, you know?

• 2:00:15Joe Rogan?

  Throw a whole new Lucky wrench into that, that legend.

• 2:00:20Speaker 02

  But, you know, now playing and man, I'm so stoked to see all these new bands out there and like so many young folks playing actual instruments, you know? I felt like for a long time they were so electronic and DJs and all that stuff, you know?

• 2:00:34Joe Rogan?

  Well, there's a giant country comeback that's going on right now, kind of nationwide. I'm sure you love Open the Gates, Zach Bryan's song?

• 2:00:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:00:43Joe Rogan?

  That's such a great bull riding song.

• 2:00:44Speaker 02

  Man, they got some great tunes, man.

• 2:00:46Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's a great bull riding song. Um, but there's, um, there's so many great musicians out there now and also have lived like different but varying, like Charlie Crockett. What a fascinating dude that guy is, like just kind of performing on the streets and, you know, just being kind of a vagabond, traveling around and then finally catches and people are like, damn, this music is fucking great, man.

• 2:01:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, like wearing it on their sleeves, you know, and like, and having the confidence to, I think people have always been, I think there has been plenty of folks out there, you know, writing from the heart and so to speak and all of that and, you know, having a certain integrity to the things that they're saying and, and one, you know, the truth in their speaking into their songs and things like that. And now there's just a, there's a lot more of a platform to support them, you know, and, and like people are like, oh wow, there's a, there's a bunch of this stuff out there, you know?

• 2:01:41Joe Rogan?

  There's also an appreciation for it because I think we're all fearful that people like you won't exist in the future. Because it seems like a guy like you, you know, bull riding, living on a ranch, like singing songs in bars, like, that almost is like a thing of the past.

• 2:01:59Speaker 02

  Oh, very much.

• 2:02:00Joe Rogan?

  But it's so romantic to people that like when we meet a guy like you in real life, you're like, oh, keep him around. You know, like you want to make sure that people like you still exist. It's a very exciting thing for people to have a person who's lived an authentically interesting life. And authentically out of the box life, it's not a normal life. Like you, you're, if you meet a million people, the odds of you meeting one guy who used to bull ride and then started singing in bars with his friends and was happy living on the road. Now all of a sudden, he's on a fucking gigantic television show. It's not even one in a million.

• 2:02:42Speaker 02

  It's pretty, it's strange to, because sometimes I, you know, I meet people and like, you know, I'm like, oh yeah, I grew up just like you, you know, and then I realized like, I don't think I did.

• 2:02:55Speaker 02

  I kind of have to think about it myself.

• 2:02:57Joe Rogan?

  No, you definitely didn't. You rode a bull when you were fucking ten, dude, okay? Most people when they're ten, they're playing with G I. Joes.

• 2:03:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:03:04Joe Rogan?

  You know, they're not riding bulls. That's a very unusual setup for the rest of your life, you know? If you can, I think if you do some things difficult when you're really young, you, you get accustomed to fear, you get accustomed to anxiety and nerves and the, the thing that, I mean, that, that is like the mark of a man. Like a man is his ability to be in a very high stress situation and keep his shit together. You know, and to have gone through a lot of that when you're very young, like riding a bull at ten is crazy. To gone through that when you're very young, it just develops the kind of character that allows you to kind of do anything in life. And I think most men see that and they wish they were like that.

• 2:03:50Speaker 02

  I remember a moment, you know, it was really when I was, you know, riding steers. And then I made that transition to the big bulls, you know? And it wasn't like, oh, here's this, like this little steer and then there's the in between. And then there's the big, it was like this little steer and then this big bull, you know? I went to, it was a junior rodeo in Odessa, Texas, and it was my first year to ride junior bulls. And I entered the.

• 2:04:15Speaker 02

  The bull riding, my uncle was there with me and they started running the bulls up into the chutes and they were big, they were like backs that wide and horns sticking out the sides of the chutes, you know. And they were big, but they didn't buck that hard, you know, they just kind of jumped, kicked down, but they were still big, you know. And like, I remember like scared and like in tears, you know, kind of, I was scared. And my uncle, you know, was super cool about it. He wasn't like, you have to do this or you have to, he's like, man, whatever you want to do, you know, you want to pack it up, we'll, we'll get out of here right now. It's like, this is either for you or it's not for you, you know. And I remember just him telling me, you want to take like 20, 30 minutes and just kind of think about it and whatever you want to do, we'll make happen, you know.

• 2:04:59Speaker 02

  And I did, I kind of walked around there for a bit and I just had this some kind of like, I knew I would regret it if I didn't do it, didn't try it, you know, there was something in me where like, man, because I slept it, I dreamt about it, you know, I just, I loved it and I was like, no, I'm gonna do this, you know, and I put my rope on him and had all the support there that I needed in that moment and they opened the gate and this big old high horned bull, he just turned and kind of jumped out there real docile and I think I rode him two or three jumps and fell off and it was just like, I'm the king of the world. I was like, I'm a bull rider now, you know, I'm not just the steer rider kid, you know,

• 2:05:40Speaker 02

  I kind of made that level and I remember after that, I just, man, I just craved it. Like, just the higher they jump, the faster they spin, the better I like it. Really? Oh, just, yeah, just dirty rank, just run them in there, let's go. And when I was, when I was little, I mean, even when I was like 14 or 15, you know, the guys were starting to breed the bulls for like the PBR, like they full on started these like breeding programs, you know, it used to, you could go to a practice pen and, you know, be an old farmer that had two or three old bulls that you could get on and practice and they'd just jump around and just, you know, nothing was really gonna hurt you bad, you know. And then they started breeding these young bulls and man, you'd go to the, the practice

• 2:06:23Speaker 02

  pen, there'd be 10 or 15 of these like yearlings that bucked and they needed somebody to get on them, you know, like test pilot and I was the test pilot. There was a guy named Bradley Raspberry, I believe, kind of out in Brownwood, I remember going to his house and.

• 2:06:40Speaker 02

  I could ride, I could ride. I was pretty sticky when I was, I could ride a lot better when I was younger than I was when I got older, you know? For some reason, I just had that no fear, whatever that was. And I'd get on ten or fifteen a day.

• 2:06:53Speaker 02

  They just kept running them in there, man. They'd be trying to flip over in the chute and just, you know, they're young, green bulls that were half wild and and they're just trying to figure out which ones bucked and which ones didn't. And they would, you know, they'd get rid of the ones that didn't buck and keep the ones that did. And man, I'd just be like, the wilder they got in the chute, like, the more aggressive I got. Like, I just like, was like, okay, that's what we're gonna do? Come on, let's go, let's, let's do this, you know?

• 2:07:22Speaker 02

  I was nuts, you know?

• 2:07:23Joe Rogan?

  God, that's so crazy. That's such a crazy way to live your life. You know, wild bulls, you say wild, like the ones that are out there in the wild, they're some of the most dangerous animals that you could ever encounter. When they're act, like, they call them scrub bulls. Like, my buddy, um, Adam, he lives in Australia, or he's, he's moving to America, but

• 2:07:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:07:43Joe Rogan?

  when he lived in, uh, Australia, he, he said that they would encounter these scrub bulls, which is like wild domestic bulls that got out and started breeding, and then they, many generations later, they're now completely wild.

• 2:07:56Speaker 02

  They're like deer out there.

• 2:07:58Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and they will run after you.

• 2:08:00Speaker 02

  I knew these three guys from Australia that, that, uh, several Australian guys that came over, lived in Stevieville. A lot of these cowboys had moved to Stevieville because it was so central and it was kind of cowboy capital there. And, uh, his name was Lance Kelly, had some brothers. And they were from up there in North Queensland somewhere. And one summer, he went back to work, and then when he came back, he wanted, he'd tell me about where he was from all the time, you know? I was young, curious, I was always fascinated. I was like, wow, you're from Australia, you know? I've only seen movies, you know, like, uh... What's the, oh gosh.

• 2:08:33Joe Rogan?

  Crocodile Dundee?

• 2:08:34Speaker 02

  No, man from, uh, uh, man from Snowy River, now which was, anyway. Um, but I was fascinated with Australia and him and his brothers. And so he went home and he, he videotaped a, a VHS. You know, he didn't have phones back then, but it was like the old cam VHS tape recorder. And he'd videotape, or, uh, duct taped it around his body while he was walking around, working on the ranch. And he'd have his four wheeler in there chasing these wild cattle and rounding them up, him and his brother, brothers, and he would just like chase them on a four wheeler as long as, you know, keep them running till they got so tired, they couldn't go anymore. And then he had this piece of pipe on there, he could run up behind them and kind of knock them down. And then he'd jump off and tie their legs together.

• 2:09:16Speaker 02

  And they would catch a bunch of them like that. And then his brother would come by, you know, later with a truck and a winch and winch them up into the trailer and they would catch all these wild cows like that. And to be able to see that footage and stuff and have him tell me how they were doing it and show them. And I was like, oh, that's the coolest thing in the world. I want to go, when can I go, you know?

• 2:09:37Joe Rogan?

  Australia is such a crazy place, man. It's, I mean, it's bigger than the United States and, or the size of the United States roughly. And it has less people than Los Angeles.

• 2:09:48Speaker 02

  And everything will kill you over there.

• 2:09:49Joe Rogan?

  Everything will kill you.

• 2:09:51Speaker 02

  Every snake, spider.

• 2:09:52Joe Rogan?

  Every snake, crocodiles. They have saltwater crocodiles and giant fucking great white sharks. And like, whoo. And hardy people, man.

• 2:10:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:10:02Joe Rogan?

  Hardy motherfuckers come from that place.

• 2:10:04Speaker 02

  I feel like, I feel like Texas and a lot of folks in Australia are like a bit kindred spirits.

• 2:10:09Joe Rogan?

  Yes, I think so too. My buddy, James McCann, was on the podcast yesterday. He's a comic out of Australia. And, uh, he's from there and he spends time here. He was living here for a while, but he had to move back because he had another kid. And, but now he's coming back and forth and trying to figure, he's really talented.

• 2:10:25Speaker 02

  Coming to Austin or?

• 2:10:26Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, he was living in Austin for a couple of years and living in America for a couple of years, living in Austin for about a year. But, you know, his wife's about to have another kid and they just decided to go back to Australia where she's got support. But man, he fucking misses it. He was here, he's like, mate, I miss it so much.

• 2:10:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:10:44Joe Rogan?

  I miss it so much, like. I think there's any place like this place.

• 2:10:48Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:10:49Joe Rogan?

  It's pretty awesome. But Australia, it's like, it's the same kind of thing. It's like, it's a rugged place and the kind of people that are, that live there, they're fun. They're fun, kind of. Got a super fucked up oppressive government, unfortunately.

• 2:11:03Speaker 02

  I think it's a lot about what you say too. You know, when you survive certain things in your life and, um, you know, it, it puts things in perspective of what you're taking seriously.

• 2:11:14Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:11:14Speaker 02

  Or what's, what's an emergency.

• 2:11:16Joe Rogan?

  Right, right.

• 2:11:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, oh, is this, this is, this is life or death, or is it not, or, you know? And to be able to laugh at stuff. Man, I love comedians. It's just like, man, to be able to just joke and cut stuff about the most serious things or whatever it is, like, God, we need that so much, you know?

• 2:11:35Joe Rogan?

  It's an important service. It doesn't seem like it is to people because it seems stupid. They're like, oh, you're just telling jokes. Like, not for, for me, when I go and watch a good comedy show, I feel better. It's medicine. And I think it also puts life into perspective with a sense of humor. You can kind of look at things through a different lens and go, yeah, we're probably gonna be alright.

• 2:11:56Speaker 02

  I get a feeling like, you know, I think a lot of folks have this idea that songwriters are where, you know, especially, you know, have a bunch of sad songs or whatever to go to that deep place and you live through stuff that you write about, but man, I find in comics, man, I like, I feel like there's some of the heaviest stuff in the world that those folks have experienced to be able to you know, come up and tell these kinds of jokes and stories and the educational part of it with it, you know, it's so much, I don't know, for me, it seems like so much more than just a joke.

• 2:12:27Joe Rogan?

  It is with some. I mean, some people just do jokes. It really depends on your style. But I mean, if you go back to like Richard Pryor, his whole thing was like explaining life and telling stories.

• 2:12:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:12:38Joe Rogan?

  But with an amazing sense of humor.

• 2:12:41Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:12:41Joe Rogan?

  And that you would leave that and you'd like, everybody feels like more united, they feel better.

• 2:12:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:12:46Joe Rogan?

  Just like you, you're like.

• 2:12:47Speaker 02

  It's what everybody was thinking.

• 2:12:48Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. It was everybody's thinking, afraid to say, and also he would look at things from a very wise perspective that was also hilarious. So you walked out of there feeling better.

• 2:12:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:12:59Joe Rogan?

  You felt like you were better.

• 2:13:01Speaker 02

  It felt like there's, it, uh... Bringing some hope.

• 2:13:04Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:13:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:13:05Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, there's hope in humor.

• 2:13:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:13:07Joe Rogan?

  For sure. But there's hope in music, too.

• 2:13:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:13:09Joe Rogan?

  You know, I, I don't have any musical talent at all, but I always think of music as almost like a drug. Because music, when, when a good song hits, you're like, fuck, like you're, if you're in the car and a good tune comes on, like especially back when I used to listen to the radio.

• 2:13:24Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:13:24Joe Rogan?

  You know, and like you didn't expect what was coming on and all of a sudden.

• 2:13:27Speaker 02

  Can't rewind it.

• 2:13:28Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, all of a sudden it's Radar Love by Golden Earing.

• 2:13:31Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:13:31Joe Rogan?

  Fuck, yeah, let's go.

• 2:13:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:13:33Joe Rogan?

  Like you, you feel different. It like changes your mood. Like a, you hear like Free Bird, like you're flipping through the channels and the fucking guitar solo for Free Bird comes on, you're like, yes.

• 2:13:45Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:13:46Joe Rogan?

  You feel better. Like it, it excites all these parts of your senses, your consciousness, your feelings. It's, it's a drug. I mean, it's an amazing thing.

• 2:13:56Speaker 02

  Been real therapeutic for me at the very beginning. Like I, like I said, I didn't have high expectations, but I, I knew when I kind of wrote some of the first songs that I wrote and I like got some of that stuff off my chest, like, it changed me, you know?

• 2:14:11Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:14:11Speaker 02

  It like, it became a tool that all, all of a sudden I had access to this thing that like, was helping me heal in a way. Like I could get, I could get stuff off my chest. Like the things that, uh, I was uncomfortable talking about in conversation with folks. Like I could put them into a song and like, sing them to the wall.

• 2:14:30Joe Rogan?

  Ooh.

• 2:14:31Speaker 02

  And I was just like getting that stuff out. Like there wasn't anybody in the room. I was just like, you know, but I was getting this stuff out, out of me, you know?

• 2:14:38Joe Rogan?

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• 2:15:22Joe Rogan?

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• 2:16:07Joe Rogan?

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• 2:16:50Joe Rogan?

  Like if you just tell some sad story about your life, people are like, oh geez.

• 2:16:53Speaker 02

  Like, here we go.

• 2:16:56Speaker 02

  Cry me a river kid, everybody's got a story.

• 2:16:59Joe Rogan?

  But if you have a sad story in a song, it's like fucking, it's kinda, it's beautiful. Like, I love a good sad song. You know, a song that has like real emotion in it, whether it's a real story or whether, like, one of my favorite Colter Wall songs is Kate McKinnon.

• 2:17:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:17:18Joe Rogan?

  Jamie turned me on to that song. He said it to me.

• 2:17:20Speaker 02

  Man, Colter's a gem.

• 2:17:22Joe Rogan?

  He was fucking twenty-one when he made that song, which is crazy.

• 2:17:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:17:27Joe Rogan?

  You listen to that song, that sounds like a fifty-eight-year-old man who's been smoking cigarettes his whole life.

• 2:17:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:17:33Joe Rogan?

  And that dude is interesting too, cause he still works on a ranch.

• 2:17:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:17:37Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:17:38Speaker 02

  He's a great guy. He's one of my favorites of the younger guys that have come up and been doing this. He's just, um, I same way when I first heard those first songs, I was like, who the, who the fuck is this?

• 2:17:49Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:17:49Speaker 02

  You know? Then you saw, then I saw like a picture of him, I'm like, oh man, he's a kid, you know?

• 2:17:54Joe Rogan?

  Crazy.

• 2:17:55Speaker 02

  And I just, fabulous songwriter, guitar player.

• 2:18:01Joe Rogan?

  You hear that, you're like, what is this?

• 2:18:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:18:04Joe Rogan?

  What, who is this guy?

• 2:18:06Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:18:06Joe Rogan?

  And I couldn't believe he was twenty-one. I'm like, that makes zero sense.

• 2:18:10Speaker 02

  Yeah. He's got it though, man. And there's a bunch of them out there now that I'm hearing too. There's just like, I'm like, man, how cool.

• 2:18:18Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:18:19Speaker 02

  How cool. I'm so glad that they're getting a shot at it, or just getting the support. I don't know if it's saying getting a shot at it, but it's like getting the, the love and support that they deserve for the, it's good music, man.

• 2:18:29Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's great, great music. And there's a thing now with the internet where it's so easy to share something. You know, like, someone's got a good song and it's on YouTube or Spotify, and then you just send a link to your buddy.

• 2:18:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:18:42Joe Rogan?

  You go, bro, check this out. Like, I gotta say, like, half the songs that I find out about, my friends just send me.

• 2:18:47Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:18:48Joe Rogan?

  And then all of a sudden, I'm like, oh shit, yeah. And then I'll add it to my playlist, you know? It's like, it's easy to share things now where you don't have to go to the record store and pick up the record and, you know? Now it's just like, within seconds of you getting it in your phone, you're listening to it.

• 2:19:05Speaker 02

  And it's easier to record the stuff too, you know?

• 2:19:07Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:19:08Speaker 02

  It's like, you don't need a half a million bucks and a studio and all that stuff. It's like, man, half the stuff you can record on your phone.

• 2:19:14Joe Rogan?

  Well, look at Oliver Anthony.

• 2:19:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:19:16Joe Rogan?

  One fucking song.

• 2:19:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:19:18Joe Rogan?

  One song, and the first show he ever does is like eighteen thousand people. That is the first- That dude ever performed at.

• 2:19:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, I feel for him. I would never have been able to do that when I started, you know. Like, I was not prepared for anything. And I, you know, I don't know, maybe they're not, but that's a lot of.

• 2:19:38Joe Rogan?

  He settled in, man. He settled in pretty easy. He figured it out. He's a smart cat.

• 2:19:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:19:44Joe Rogan?

  He's a really smart dude, and he settled in really easy.

• 2:19:47Speaker 02

  I guess they have to, you know. I mean, I always think, like, you know, gosh, it's changed so much since I started out, you know. I mean, we didn't even have, like, you know, if you wanted to learn how to play a song, you kind of had to go listen to the record and just try to figure it out, you know, and rewind it. Now, there's like, oh, here's a guy that'll just show you every note and this and that.

• 2:20:04Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, there's a guy on YouTube that'll show you exactly where to place your fingers.

• 2:20:08Speaker 02

  Do it, you know. And that took me years to figure out, you know, and, um, but, you know, maybe that is like today, you know, these guys, it's, uh, they're learning how to do it at such a quicker rate, and like, they know how to handle the crowds and do all the stuff, and it's just like, boom, there you go.

• 2:20:23Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's with everything today. You know, I think that's also why, like, um, I mean, in martial arts and like UFC, there's a reason why the guys are so much better today. And it's because they get to see everything that everybody's ever done, and then they practice it and improve upon it, and they get it at a early age. You can essentially just on your phone, watch every fight that's ever taken place ever in human history that's been recorded.

• 2:20:46Speaker 02

  I did that on the road a few years ago. I, I mean, I've still, I've always been a pretty rudimentary guitar player, you know, I can't solo all over the place and all of that stuff. And, um, I think it was like 2019, I put out a record and I was going on a tour, and my friend Charlie Sexton produced the album. He's a wonderful guitar player and.

• 2:21:06Joe Rogan?

  Charlie Sexton, the guy from the, from the eighties, Beat So Lonely, that guy?

• 2:21:11Speaker 02

  Played with, uh, Dylan, played Archangels.

• 2:21:14Joe Rogan?

  He was like really young when Beat So Lonely. So Lonely came out, right?

• 2:21:17Speaker 02

  Oh, man, he's, yeah, legend. And I remember calling him though, I was like, "Man, I really wanna get better at the guitar," you know? And he's like, "Well, just listen to all the stuff that you really like." You know, he's like, "Don't try to play it all note for note." He's like, "Well, just keep listening to it and like, you'll start eventually finding those places and develop your style." And, but it was, when I got on the road as well, man, I had access on YouTube.

• 2:21:39Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:21:40Speaker 02

  All of my favorite musicians and guitar players, and I just kinda made a point of sitting down. And I even found this guy that was just breaking down and giving simple blues guitar lessons for kids. And I was like, "Man, this is great, never done anything like this." And just like, went through, I went back, you know?

• 2:21:55Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:21:55Speaker 02

  I gotta memorize all the notes on the fretboard. And I needed, you know, and it was just, it was so, I had so much fun doing it. And, you know, and also give confidence to get up and jam with other musicians and play and kinda know what key you're in, what you're doing. And, you know, I went years, you know, without having any kinda lessons or training. And then I'm just like, within three weeks of being on tour and watching YouTube videos of it, just stepped it up so much.

• 2:22:23Speaker 02

  They're like, "How'd you learn how to do it?" I was just, about twenty years later in my career, I decided to learn how to play the guitar on YouTube.

• 2:22:28Joe Rogan?

  It is amazing. I mean, that's the positive part of the internet, you know? If you can avoid the negative parts, there's a lot of great positive stuff in the internet. And the access to stuff like that is amazing.

• 2:22:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, if we all could just avoid the negative of everything, right?

• 2:22:42Joe Rogan?

  Right. Unfortunately, there's a lot of people that don't have good lives, and they do have a lot of extra time because they're not really investing in their own life. So they're just spreading negativity online.

• 2:22:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:22:53Joe Rogan?

  And it's just human nature.

• 2:22:55Speaker 02

  Wild, wild world.

• 2:22:57Joe Rogan?

  It is. It's a wild world, but it's also a wildly positive world, too. Just what you just said about the guitar stuff.

• 2:23:03Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:23:03Joe Rogan?

  Or with the Oliver Anthony stuff.

• 2:23:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:23:05Joe Rogan?

  This guy standing there with a guitar. In front of a field with no production value at all, but has a song that he's singing from the heart. Like, how many, how many views does that shit have on YouTube? It's gotta be like a hundred million views or something nuts. And that song was fucking gigantic. Rich man north of.

• 2:23:28Speaker 02

  I remember my wife playing it for me for the first time and I was just like, what the, I was like, what is that? And she's like, oh man, check this out, you know, I was like, that's so fucking rad.

• 2:23:37Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I got a chance of seeing him perform live too with his band. They're fucking fantastic. And he's settled, he's completely settled into being famous now. He's, he's full, he's cool with it. He's still the same dude. I met him real early on and I actually talked to him on the phone. How many was it got at? Two hundred and thirty-six million? Holy shit.

• 2:24:00Speaker 02

  When you say like he's settled dude, was he, I didn't know dude, was he having a hard time with it?

• 2:24:04Joe Rogan?

  He was freaking out at the beginning and I contacted him early on and he said, hey, can I ask you some advice? And we talked on the phone. I said, yeah, sure. So I called him up and he was just telling me that he was getting hit up by all these different people that were trying to give him money to sign a contract and this. And then I go, hey, hey, hey, don't sign nothing. I go, you don't need nobody. You don't need to be locked up in any contracts with nobody. And he was like, they're all telling me I gotta strike while the iron's hot. I'm like, fuck them. I go, you got talent, dude. Talent is the number one thing. You already have that. You're gonna be fine. You just keep making songs like that. You can't fucking lose, but what you don't wanna do is be tied with some legal contract to some assholes. Just sucking you like a vampire.

• 2:24:49Joe Rogan?

  And they're gonna be stuck with you for years and then you're gonna have to go to court.

• 2:24:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, you have the opportunity, like, like you said, you just, man, you're writing good songs, you're doing good stuff and you have a way to give it to the people.

• 2:25:01Joe Rogan?

  But he's getting an offer for like seven million dollars to sign this. I'm like, don't do it. I know it sounds like, but that's seven million dollars. They're giving you that because they're gonna make fourteen. There's not a chance in hell, and you don't need them. You don't need them. You should get all the money. You should get all, you, you shouldn't give any money to anybody else. You don't need it. You can make your own records. You can put it all together yourself. You don't need nobody.

• 2:25:24Speaker 02

  I guess you always gotta remember, they're gonna buy for one, sell for two, somewhere like that.

• 2:25:28Joe Rogan?

  Exactly. There's no way they're gonna give you that money unless they're gonna make a lot more. And then you're gonna get stuck with them. Don't do it. And he's like, they're all telling me I gotta do it now. Because if I miss this opportunity, I'm like, you ain't missing shit. You ain't miss, there's not a chance you're gonna miss it.

• 2:25:43Speaker 02

  Especially when you're that young, you know?

• 2:25:45Joe Rogan?

  And good.

• 2:25:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:25:47Joe Rogan?

  And just fucking good.

• 2:25:48Speaker 02

  Who knows what they're gonna be, you know, be writing in the next ten years.

• 2:25:51Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Have you heard that song, Woman Scorned?

• 2:25:54Speaker 02

  I haven't, no. Is that one of his new ones?

• 2:25:58Joe Rogan?

  He wrote that one after a breakup and it's just, woo! You hear that fucker, it just gets you right in the bone marrow.

• 2:26:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, I get ya.

• 2:26:06Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's fantastic. It's so good. But it's just like, you know, it's a beautiful story. And I love a story like that. And he was like selling, uh, he was selling like, uh, heavy equipment. Like he was a salesman, just like fucking machinery and shit. And then writing songs and he gets fed up one day and he puts this song, let's make a video of this fucking song.

• 2:26:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:26:28Joe Rogan?

  And then all of a sudden, boom!

• 2:26:30Speaker 02

  And people ask me all the time, they're like, man, who do you think's, you know, the best young songwriter out there? You know, musician or guitar player? I'm like, man, I don't know. It's probably some sixteen year old kid in the garage that nobody's heard of. That's probably the best guy out there, you know?

• 2:26:44Joe Rogan?

  And he's ready to jump off.

• 2:26:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, he's gonna hit you with some song that just, you know, crushes you.

• 2:26:50Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. They're out there. It's just, but that's the thing that I was saying about guys like you, that people look at guys like you and it's such a romantic story. They worry that there's not gonna be any more of you. You know what I mean? Like this weird digital world and AI and just this strange fucking life that we're all living like now that are not, I don't wanna say simple, because it's not simple, but it's unencumbered by all the bullshit of the world that we think is fake and unfortunate.

• 2:27:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:27:25Joe Rogan?

  Like to have this pure life and this wild romantic story. When people meet a guy like you, they're like, oh, man, there probably ain't gonna be many more of them.

• 2:27:35Speaker 02

  I don't know, man. I mean, look at this guy, you know? The guys are kinda, I feel so fortunate too, like. When I did come to Austin, like in my, you know, mid twenties, you know, I met guys like Joe Ely and Terry Allen and Guy Clark and like these little Steve Earl legendary kind of guys that I looked up to. And I remember being young then and being like, oh, man, you know, these, these are the last guys left, you know?

• 2:28:00Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:28:00Speaker 02

  And so, you know, I, I don't know, there's so many of these young folks out there that I think crave it and that's what they're interested in. They wanna hear, play that music, you know? They wanna feel that stuff. So I'm optimistic about it, but I can, I can, it definitely is a different world out there these days. And I, you know, even for myself, you know, just going with the flow and like, wow, where are we going tomorrow? You know, how's this? Like, I have no idea how so much of this social media stuff is working or what, you know, and how you put out an album or songs and it's like, don't worry about all that jazz. Just like, just keep writing.

• 2:28:40Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:28:41Speaker 02

  Just keep writing, keep making it and just performing it. And at the end of the day, if all of that stuff disappears, like, you know, you can always go sit on the sidewalk and put your tip jar out there and play a song for people who are walking down the street. And I guarantee you, there's gonna be somebody that's gonna stop and appreciate it, you know?

• 2:28:59Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's what got Charlie Crockett started.

• 2:29:01Speaker 02

  Yeah. I've had plenty of gigs where like, you know, you go into some bar and the, you know, my wife always says, go where you're celebrated, not where you're tolerated, you know? You go into some bar and they kinda, you can tell they don't really want, you know, they're not excited about you playing or whatever. Like, yeah, shit, I'll just go, I'll go park in the parking lot across the street and sit on the tailgate of my truck and play. We'll have a party over there, you know?

• 2:29:22Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:29:24Joe Rogan?

  That is the crazy thing about music. You could just kinda set up anywhere.

• 2:29:27Speaker 02

  You don't need all that stuff. Like I'm talking about signing contracts and deals and it's like, man, just like, you got that guitar in your hand, you got your song. You know, hold on to it.

• 2:29:38Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:29:38Speaker 02

  And protect it, you know, that's what's, it's something that's, that's special to you. I think when I talk about the therapy of songwriting, that's what's, I hold on and protect that ruthlessly. You know, I'm, I'm not just giving that away, you know, and it's more, that part of it's way more important than selling an album or a concert ticket or going on the road touring and all that, man. Like what I get out of music is like when I'm sitting at home in a room all by myself and letting that stuff pour out of me and I'm just, just singing it to the wall, like that's what's saved my life, you know?

• 2:30:15Joe Rogan?

  That's awesome.

• 2:30:16Speaker 02

  And any of the rest of it.

• 2:30:18Joe Rogan?

  I'm glad that you articulated that way too, because I think there's young aspiring songwriters and singers out there that are listening to this right now, that are feeling this, and they just can't wait to get to a pad right now and start writing. Can pick up their guitar and start writing.

• 2:30:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:30:33Joe Rogan?

  Cause it's like stories like yours and the way you express it, it, it inspires people to get excited about it. Inspires people to really dig in.

• 2:30:43Speaker 02

  I hope so, you know, I definitely had folks that mentored me like that and, you know, steered me in the right direction in a lot of ways. Terry Allen, the guy, definitely, I was just like, man, just keep writing, keep, you know, and whatever it, whatever that's making you want to do that in the first place, you know, like that, like hold on to that, you know, and protect it. And, and the rest of it'll always be around and it'll always come and it'll change and a, a good song will survive and find its way. Just like the guy, you know, that song you just played me, like you said, 200 million people here and it just, they'll, they'll find its way, you know?

• 2:31:20Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:31:20Speaker 02

  Find it, find, find its way into people's hearts, you know?

• 2:31:23Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and like I said, it's just, it's important for people like you to tell your story, it really is.

• 2:31:30Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 2:31:30Joe Rogan?

  It's, it's fuel for people.

• 2:31:32Speaker 02

  Thanks.

• 2:31:33Joe Rogan?

  Thank you for being here. I really appreciate it. It was a lot of fun. I really enjoyed it. Uh, and, uh, tell everybody they want to find you performing anywhere, where they can catch you. Is you got a website that shows where you're gonna be at?

• 2:31:44Speaker 02

  All over the interwebs. Yeah, it's all out there.

• 2:31:47Joe Rogan?

  Is it, do you have your own personal website?

• 2:31:50Speaker 02

  I do. It's probably, uh, just RyanBingham.com or

• 2:31:53Joe Rogan?

  There it is.

• 2:31:54Speaker 02

  BinghamMusic.com, something like that.

• 2:31:56Joe Rogan?

  All the dates are up there.

• 2:31:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:31:59Joe Rogan?

  Do you use social media at all?

• 2:32:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, we're on all this. I mean, all the stuff.

• 2:32:02Joe Rogan?

  Do you pay attention to it, or you got somebody that does it for you?

• 2:32:05Speaker 02

  Both. We both, yeah. Like mostly like on Instagram, I pay attention to that one, you know, and check in and stuff like that. There's so much of it these days. It's like, I can't keep up with all of it.

• 2:32:14Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you can't keep up. It'll rob your time.

• 2:32:17Speaker 02

  Yeah. I'm trying, I'm trying to go get away where all that stuff's turned off. That's where I'll go find me.

• 2:32:22Joe Rogan?

  Beautiful. Alright. Thanks, brother. Appreciate it. It was a lot of fun.

• 2:32:26Speaker 02

  Thank you, I appreciate it.

• 2:32:27Joe Rogan?

  Bye, everybody.