#2479 - Bob Lazar & Luigi Vendittelli

Bob Lazar made headlines in 1989 during an anonymous interview with journalist George Knapp, where he described working with extraterrestrial technology at a site near Area 51. He is the subject of the documentary directed by Luigi Vendittelli “S4: The Bob Lazar Story,” now streaming on Amazon Prime Video. http://wearenotalone.comwww.projectgravitaur.comwww.simonandschuster.com/books/Dreamland/Bob-Lazar/9798218678043www.boblazar.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  The Joe Rogan Experience.

• 0:06Speaker 01

  Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day.

• 0:12Joe Rogan?

  What's up gentlemen?

• 0:13Speaker 00

  Hey Joe.

• 0:14Joe Rogan?

  Great to see you again Bob.

• 0:15Speaker 00

  Same here, long time.

• 0:16Joe Rogan?

  Luigi.

• 0:16Speaker 03

  Joe.

• 0:18Joe Rogan?

  You are, still to this day, the most watched ever podcast we have ever done that's on YouTube.

• 0:25Speaker 00

  That's just unreal. It's unreal.

• 0:28Joe Rogan?

  It is unreal, because it shows you how many people are just absolutely fascinated by the story. And what you guys have done in this new film is essentially recreate S4 and using AI recreate you as a young man and these experiences that you had. And it was really excellent. Luigi, you're the one who put the film together, you figured it all out. And first of all, what was the technology that you guys used to recreate everything that we did?

• 1:01Speaker 03

  Yeah, I just want to say, there's about 10% AI in the film, but there's 90% Blender. And that's actually handmade CGI. So, everything you see is all handmade. And even the de-aging of Bob Lazar, we scanned Bob, we went over to his house, scanned his face, took a process of de-aging him through that, then creating a digital model of Bob in different ages, and then placing him in the environment. And then, in some instances, at the very end, we perfected or kind of put a bow on it with a little touch of AI. But the whole thing

• 1:44Speaker 03

  is handmade. So the craft, the environment, the papoose lake, the facility, the equipment, and the people were all made. And some of the people are actually real actors that we put in there. So it's not, it's, there's, one of the guys that is Barry in the film, is a guy called Luis Martinez that's been working with me for the past 10 years. And he laughs at it because he goes, "I can't believe I'm Barry," you know, so.

• 2:08Joe Rogan?

  Does he look anything like Barry?

• 2:10Speaker 03

  Actually, he does. He does.

• 2:12Speaker 00

  That's why we chose him.

• 2:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:14Joe Rogan?

  Where is the actual Barry now?

• 2:17Speaker 00

  I don't know, you know, I kinda thought at one point, after all this happened, we would at least hear from one of those guys. But I never heard from anybody after, you know, after the initial release of all the information, yeah.

• 2:34Joe Rogan?

  It seems like, wow, I don't know, if people are able to keep secrets for this long, it's gotta be very difficult to just blurt it out. Like, you know, you're holding on to a secret for 20, 30, 40 years, you're... It's like...

• 2:50Speaker 00

  I guess, these guys were lifers, though. I mean, they spent most of their time there. They spent at least two weeks at a time and one week off. So they stayed at the base. I mean, these guys were hardcore. I had just come in on the project, you know, so, um...

• 3:07Speaker 00

  I don't know, I don't know what happened to them, I'd love to know. I suspect that Dennis Mariani, my supervisor, died. I've seen people track him down, you know, all the way to point to... Speaking to his family and they said, "Yeah, he had some classified job out in the desert" or something, and they showed me his gravestone and stuff, so, you know, at least they were able to track him down, but I've never heard of any leads on Barry or Renee or anybody like that.

• 3:31Joe Rogan?

  What is it like seeing the recreation of it in a film? Cause, I mean, essentially, it was your

• 3:43Joe Rogan?

  direction, for lack of a better word, your description of it, you telling them exactly how everything was laid out, and then, once they recreated it, what is that feeling like when you watch it?

• 3:56Speaker 00

  Well, the final product is absolutely mind-blowing, because, as I've said to Luigi, "It looks like you guys downloaded that out of my brain." I mean... You know, you can describe something 100 times and until you actually make a picture, it doesn't become clear. But, you know, this took years. I think it was like five and a half years from when I first met Luigi and he said, "Yeah, I can do this." And the quality kept improving to where he started showing me pictures and I went, "Jesus, that's, that's really it. It's not really it, it's really it." And, I mean, it blew me away.

• 4:40Speaker 00

  Later on, he showed me a 3D environment where I could put goggles on and move around inside. I mean, that made the hair stand up on my arms. It was, it was unbelievable. So, I don't know if I could really describe how that made me feel, but it felt like I was teleported back there. And that's, you know, that's when really I developed an admiration for Luigi's talent. I said, "You know, I'm behind this." And flew out to Canada a couple of times. I didn't have much to do with the film, other than, I guess, a couple of times going out there and going, "No, that's right, that's the wrong color, move this here, do that." And, but those guys spent over three years working on it. And, you know, what they, and they never showed me anything, you know?

• 5:25Speaker 00

  I'd speak to Luigi, you know, a couple of times a month and, you know, he'd always say, "You, you, oh my God, you won't believe this." I said, "Show me." "No, it's not, it's not done yet." So, I really didn't get it to see anything till close to the end, but when I did, really, without trying to sound dramatic, it really put tears in my eyes going, "That, that's it, that's it, you, you did it, just stop, it's perfect."

• 5:54Joe Rogan?

  Well, I had the pleasure of watching the movie with you and sitting there with you. There was a bunch of times in the movie, you're like, "Sigh."

• 6:02Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 6:03Joe Rogan?

  Like, you could tell.

• 6:04Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 6:05Joe Rogan?

  That it was just like-

• 6:06Speaker 00

  I swear, I could feel that place. I, I could feel it watching that movie. It, it, it just, it really freaks me out because, as I've said before, it's not like what I saw. It's, it's exactly what I saw.

• 6:24Speaker 00

  It's, it's perfect. It's just like Luigi was at S4 with a camera, so.

• 6:28Joe Rogan?

  It's very.

• 6:29Speaker 00

  It worked.

• 6:30Joe Rogan?

  It's a, it's a very unique documentary in that regard. And, and watching it with you, seeing you experience this thing. And then me trying to imagine what it's like for you. You're this young scientist who gets brought in on this thing without much explanation. And then all of a sudden, you're confronted by this craft. And you, you know, the way it's broken down in the film and you get to actually see you viewing this thing and being in the presence of this thing for the first time. It's just, I could just only imagine what that must have been like for you. And it's so weird to watch you watch it again and see your wheels spin.

• 7:12Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 7:12Joe Rogan?

  What the fuck happened to my life, man? What did they do to me? What did they, what did they make me experience? Like, what the hell?

• 7:24Speaker 00

  Yeah, I, I really can't fill in the blanks there. It's a.

• 7:29Speaker 03

  I, I want to just say that there was a time when Bob got angry at me a lot because I wouldn't show him. And he was like, come on, show me. And I said, it's not ready yet. I don't want to show you something. But at a certain point, we had to. And Bob started remembering more stuff.

• 7:49Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, that's true.

• 7:50Joe Rogan?

  Mmm.

• 7:51Speaker 00

  It, it really made a big difference when he, when he showed me some things and, you know, walking down the corridor here and turn, oh, stop, wait, there's another door there. I mean, it was like I was going back into the facility. And really brought, I mean, actually seeing it again, really brought some things back that I, that I had completely forgotten about. So that, you know.

• 8:15Joe Rogan?

  Well, what's really fascinating is for people that don't know your story. You came up with the story, you talked to George Knapp, and was it 89?

• 8:24Speaker 00

  Eighty-eight, eighty-eight, eighty-nine, somewhere in there.

• 8:27Joe Rogan?

  So, late eighties, you've essentially told the exact same story all these years. And then, within the last, you know, nine, ten years, we've started to get all these reports. There was the New York Times story, there was the Go Fast video, and the Fleer video, and all these videos that show a craft that's moving the way you described this sport model moving.

• 8:56Speaker 00

  Right.

• 8:56Joe Rogan?

  Which kind of freaked a lot of people out, with the way it rotated and turned.

• 9:00Speaker 00

  Rotate, yeah, does the belly roll, faces at the bottom, towards where it's want to go, and then it takes off.

• 9:07Joe Rogan?

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• 11:18Joe Rogan?

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• 11:51Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 11:52Joe Rogan?

  It's exactly how you described all those years ago, which is really fucking crazy.

• 11:58Speaker 00

  Well, that's, I mean, that's the way it was.

• 12:02Joe Rogan?

  But it's just, it's crazy because you had this story way, way, way back then, and everybody's like, this guy's just making things up. This is all cockamamie bullshit. And then you see those videos from these fighter jets, and you're like, whoa, wait a minute. It's moving the exact same way he described. It's doing what he described in 1989.

• 12:25Speaker 00

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 12:28Joe Rogan?

  It's time to take a drink.

• 12:30Speaker 00

  Cheers.

• 12:31Joe Rogan?

  Cheers. Because it's so weird. I can't, I mean, I've had so many conversations with people. And, you know, one of the things that comes up is, uh, do you think Bob Lazar's telling the truth? And I say, look, I don't know. There's no way I can know, but he doesn't seem like he's lying. I've been around a lot of liars.

• 12:48Speaker 00

  Look, nobody can know unless you're there, you know? I'm the biggest skeptic of all, although if you look at Wikipedia, it says I'm a conspiracy theorist.

• 12:58Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, conspiracy theorist. I think it says I'm a far-right podcaster.

• 13:01Speaker 00

  Yeah, alright, I mean, yeah, it's crazy. But, uh, shit, that's my train of thought now.

• 13:08Speaker 03

  Well, they, that, if, if you, like, basically, are you a conspiracy theorist? No, you don't even look at this stuff.

• 13:15Joe Rogan?

  Well, you've had, if you have a lie, you have one lie. And it's amazing, because you've told the same one for all these years.

• 13:22Speaker 00

  Well, it's a pretty detailed lie.

• 13:24Joe Rogan?

  It's also not normal. Like, normally, when people lie, they get bored with the same lie, and then they come up with another lie. And then there's some other stories. You catch them. Eventually, you catch them. There's some cockamamie new thing that they come up with. And it's the type of people that are that deceptive. I mean, it's just, it doesn't make sense. It doesn't fit the standard model of someone.

• 13:46Speaker 00

  Well, there are other people involved with it.

• 13:48Joe Rogan?

  Yes, that's also part of the problem.

• 13:50Speaker 00

  This is for the first time Gene Huff finally is on film, you know? Because when I had the, you know, the test flight information, um, he was one of the, not one of the, he was the first person I told about that. And, uh, you know, we were all able to go out and, and see it. And so everybody knew that I wasn't crazy. Um, it was...

• 14:11Joe Rogan?

  And then also, all the confirmation that you were being fucked with. That, you know, when you were in the gym, they would show up and open up your locked car doors and open your trunk and leave it there, so you'd go out there and see it. They'd go to your house when you weren't there.

• 14:27Speaker 00

  Yeah, they were even, right, they were even following George Knapp and, and, I mean, all of us, anybody that had anything to do with it at that time.

• 14:35Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 14:35Speaker 00

  Uh, they were keeping eyes on. It was, uh.

• 14:38Joe Rogan?

  Not just eyes, but a lot of intimidation tactics, just letting you know, letting you know that they could touch you.

• 14:44Speaker 00

  Yeah. So I, I've really worked for decades to push this out of my mind, so it's always tough to bring it back. You know, and, and talk about it. And it's, yeah, although it might be funny now, it wasn't funny then at all. It was a really stressful time and still is a very stressful thing for me.

• 15:04Joe Rogan?

  I know it's so many years ago, but do you remember the thought that came in your mind when you realized that it wasn't ours?

• 15:15Speaker 00

  Do I remember the thought?

• 15:17Joe Rogan?

  Do you remember the experience?

• 15:19Speaker 00

  Yeah, I remember, I remember the feeling.

• 15:20Joe Rogan?

  Of recognizing, because initially you saw the American flag sticker.

• 15:24Speaker 00

  Yeah, when I saw the American flag, when I first went in, the first time I went in through the hangar door instead of around the back,

• 15:33Speaker 00

  you know, slid my hand across, it saw the American flag and I thought, oh my God, you know, this explains the UFO nuts, you know?

• 15:42Joe Rogan?

  It's ours.

• 15:42Speaker 00

  Yeah, this is ours. This is a new top secret fighter. We came up with a new propulsion system and, uh, you know, it, it explains everything because I never believed in flying saucers. I thought people were nuts.

• 15:56Speaker 00

  But when they started reviewing everything with me, they were trying, I was trying to replace somebody or they were trying to use me to replace somebody as quick as possible. And, um, they had two directives. One was to, directive one was to duplicate the technology with available material at any cost, which is exact verbatim what it was, and directive two was to be able to disable this technology at a distance at any cost. And.

• 16:30Speaker 00

  You know, once you start thinking about that, "Wait, don't you guys know how the thing you built worked?" And it's kind of like they left that out, that, "By the way, this isn't ours." And Barry is the guy that filled me in going, "No, no, no. This is an alien craft, and we need to figure out how this works. Look at the technology here. I mean, this is decades, light-years ahead of where we are." And it was a shock, really, to me. I remember going home that night and just laying in bed and reviewing everything that everybody said that day.

• 17:13Speaker 00

  And I really don't remember how I felt the following days, but it was just a different feeling.

• 17:25Joe Rogan?

  Like, the world just changed.

• 17:27Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was...I don't know. I really can't put it into words.

• 17:33Joe Rogan?

  Well, I couldn't imagine. I couldn't imagine what that experience is like. And it's also very strange that they would bring you in and not specifically state to you that this is not ours. They'd just bring you in and just give you a directive. This is what you were trying to accomplish.

• 17:49Speaker 00

  Well, they gave me a bunch of briefings. Everything was moving at a very fast pace, and I don't know why. I think I mentioned in the movie, right prior to I got there, there were Russians involved. From what I can ascertain, there was an exchange of information. And then we discovered something, something of great importance. And of course, kicked the Russians out and just held on to that information ourselves. And there was kind of a knowledge vacuum there. There was also an accident, and I was told I was replacing someone that was injured. I believe he actually died.

• 18:32Joe Rogan?

  There's no record of who this person was? Or has anybody ever tried to figure it out?

• 18:37Speaker 00

  I don't know. I don't have any names. I just know that Barry told me, "I'm replacing somebody that he used to work with." And he was without a lab partner for a while, so when I came in there...

• 18:48Joe Rogan?

  How long's a while?

• 18:50Speaker 00

  I don't know. But I mean, that brings up a good point. First of all, we're dealing with alien or another civilization technology, whether it was from another dimension, another time, another planet. I mean, who really knows? So I'll eventually get to answer the question here. But wouldn't you think this place would be more like the lunar receiving lab where everything is white? So you can see a speck of dust. There's, everything is sterile. People are being extremely careful with what they're doing, but you're not seeing that. This is in now something akin to an aircraft hangar in the middle of the desert.

• 19:35Speaker 00

  There is dust on everything. People are taking everything nonchalantly. There's a friggin' poster about the thing. There, here, poster there. And thank you, Luigi, for getting me that poster. We gotta figure out a place for that and put it in here somewhere. It's awesome. But I mean, they went to the trouble to make a poster. They actually- I think right here. That's a good place. Right there. There you go. But they, I mean, they actually cut one of the amplifiers out of the craft. So my point is- This is in the film as well, you could see. Yeah, but my point is, it's so nonchalant at this point. When they first had it, it had to be at that level.

• 20:17Speaker 00

  And they became so used to it, so familiar with it, that, you know, to them, it just became like another fighter aircraft or something from another country. So it's, it must have been there a long time, is what my point is. Because, look, as soon as you have something that unique, you don't let it just sit there in a hangar and be exposed to the environment and have security people walking by and people touching it. I mean, it's in an isolated, sealed, secure environment, and they were past that.

• 20:59Speaker 00

  So I think it had been there for a decade or decades. A long time. And these guys were intimately familiar with it, not afraid of it, you know, and knew what was going on.

• 21:12Joe Rogan?

  So they essentially had gotten just completely acclimated to the fact that this craft exists, that it was there. And there had been relatively little progress as far as figuring it out and figuring out what it does and how to recreate it. So it just kind of sat there. And so...

• 21:29Speaker 00

  I think they were making very little progress. And I think they kept going over the same road again and again, and they probably had other experts there and just didn't. And I think the reason I got hired is because I was a guy out in left field that didn't necessarily follow what was going on. I mean, the biggest distractors in the, in, in, you know, to me, anyway, in the story, are other scientists, other physicists, kind of, well, they would have hired me because I'm the top guy in the field. Yeah, you probably are, but I think they hired plenty of you guys and you just kept going down the same road and didn't do anything.

• 22:10Speaker 00

  I think they were looking for somebody that just would have some radical idea and just to push the, you know, the project forward. Because everything had stalled when I got there. And it was, I think they were just in a desperate move to make some progress.

• 22:25Joe Rogan?

  One of the things you talked about in the first podcast that I think is really important is that the only way for science to really progress is that these various scientists have to be able to communicate. And you have to be able to share ideas and you have to be able to collaborate. But that's not how this was run because it was so top secret. Everything was compartmentalized. Like, the metallurgists weren't talking to the propulsion's people who weren't talking to, if there were biologics experts, like, everybody was...

• 22:57Speaker 00

  Super frustrating, super frustrating. Because I, I think, I don't remember exactly where that started, again, it's 40 years ago. But I think it started with, with the seats. And, no, it started with the actual skin of the craft because everything looked like it was made from the same material. And I wanted some information.

• 23:21Speaker 00

  About the skin, the superstructure of the craft. And they said, no, that's restricted. What's, you know, we need a reason for you to. I just want to see if everything is exactly the same material. And what I call the seats in the craft, I still don't know if they're the seats, but they might be. I think it'd be hilarious if they were actually something else. But I wanted some information on those, and that was restricted information, too. There were other groups working on that. So they compartmentalized stuff so much. There was no exchange of information between any groups. I mean, you could submit a written response that your supervisor, in my case, Dennis, would have to carry over, and they would have to approve.

• 24:05Speaker 00

  And, you know, you'd get a two or three line response from, you know, the other group. But it's just, that's not how science works. Science works on the free exchange of information. And they were just killing themselves with security. And it was really frustrating. It was terribly frustrating.

• 24:26Joe Rogan?

  So was this a function of security people, people that are concentrated on top security, that don't truly understand how collaborative science works?

• 24:34Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's it, right there. You can't stop right there. They had no idea how that worked.

• 24:39Joe Rogan?

  Because it stands to reason that whatever that thing was made out of, probably in some way interacts with the propulsion system and whatever controls that are in it, that this material has to be particularly unique.

• 24:58Speaker 00

  Exactly. That's exactly my point. And I suspected the material was an electric. You know what an electric is?

• 25:05Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 25:06Speaker 00

  Okay, you know, like a magnet, a permanent magnet is like...

• 25:12Speaker 00

  You know, it's a magnet.

• 25:13Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 25:13Speaker 00

  Forever, it's a magnet.

• 25:14Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 25:15Speaker 00

  It has a magnetic field. An electorate is a material that has a permanent static field to it. A static electric field to it. And I strongly suspected that's, that the craft was made out of an electorate. And I was not, because again, that's the material science, guys. I was not allowed to connect that to, but that's, that's so important to connect it to the propulsion system and how the propulsion system interacts with the amplifier or the emitters. And I just, I, I wasn't allowed, you know, the information I needed. So it was, I don't know. It, it was self-defeating is what it was.

• 26:00Joe Rogan?

  Well, it seems like they were treating it like a fighter jet or automobile. Like, in an automobile, you have the outer area, the shell of the car. You have the doors, the skins, the hood, the roof, all that stuff, which is, but then you have the propulsion system, which is the engine and the transmission and the tires and the wheels and the suspension. But they're all not connected. They're connected because they're bolted together, but they have different functions.

• 26:29Speaker 00

  Right.

• 26:29Joe Rogan?

  I think the idea, the concept, at least as, as I'm gathering from you, is that this thing all worked as a cohesive unit.

• 26:38Speaker 00

  Right. With no physical connection between, you know, between the subsystems.

• 26:45Joe Rogan?

  And all of it made out of the same material.

• 26:48Speaker 00

  At least on the outside. At least on the outside, all made of the same material. And the other crafts all had the same power plant in them. So that brings to mind, you know, like a, like a GM plant that makes a car with a Chevy 350 and makes, you know, a dozen different models to it.

• 27:08Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 27:09Speaker 00

  So that makes you think about, boy, is there a, a factory making these things? And...

• 27:17Speaker 00

  You know, your brain can just wander off in directions, but I tried to stick with just the technology.

• 27:23Joe Rogan?

  Did you know who the metallurgists were? The people that were-

• 27:27Speaker 00

  Oh, I saw them. You know, I know them and Barry, we'd go to the lunchroom, Barry would point them out, you know.

• 27:33Joe Rogan?

  And you weren't allowed to communicate with them at all?

• 27:35Speaker 00

  Oh, hell, no. You have a lab partner, which my, in, in, uh, my case was Barry, and you're, you have, you're allowed to talk to your lab partner, but you can't talk to any other group that has to go through a written request, has to go to your supervisor, and he'll bring it over to them, and they'll bring it back, and so on and so forth. But, uh, yeah, that's, that's ridiculous, that, that, that it slows down any progress you might be making.

• 28:05Joe Rogan?

  Which is why they were probably stalled out for decades.

• 28:07Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 28:08Joe Rogan?

  Did you ever expressly communicate to them that you, you theorized at least that this all could be connected? That there's, there's something about the way the metal works?

• 28:23Speaker 00

  Oh, we all knew that.

• 28:26Speaker 00

  We all knew that. Because we'd get requests from other, you know, from other groups, and you could tell they're desperate, just like we are, and, and, and fighting against the system.

• 28:37Joe Rogan?

  What kind of requests would you get?

• 28:39Speaker 00

  Just exactly what we found out, you know, what, where is the energy being transferred here? If the reactor fires up, is there a field present around it? Or is the field just absorbed into the emitter and you can touch the, you know, reactor itself? And I, I, just little, little things like that, you know, if, uh, and actually, that, that was an important thing. When the reactor's operating, is it perfectly tuned, the emitter, to where it removes all the energy from the reactor and pushes it out the bottom? And the answer to that was no. I remember that as a specific request from, you know, from one of the groups. The metallurgy group is the one that we really wanted to hear from.

• 29:26Speaker 00

  And some of the, I didn't, I don't even know what some of the other groups were. But-

• 29:31Joe Rogan?

  How many groups were there?

• 29:32Speaker 00

  I, I don't know.

• 29:35Speaker 00

  There were only 22 people there total, including myself.

• 29:39Speaker 00

  So, um-

• 29:41Speaker 03

  I would like for you to tell Joe, one of the things that always interested me, because I built the craft, is how the waveguide worked with the ceiling and interior and how it blended. If you can explain, there was no telescopic.

• 29:56Speaker 00

  Well, this is why we wanted to talk to the metallurgist people. The reactor that sits on the bottom of the craft has a little dome over it. And there's something that looks like a pipe. That's slight, you can lift it up and take the reactor out, put the reactor in and lift it down. But you know, like, an antenna works on an old walkie talkie. It has different sections.

• 30:22Joe Rogan?

  There it is. There's from the video.

• 30:24Speaker 00

  There it is. Yeah, yeah, okay.

• 30:27Speaker 00

  Yeah, you can retract the pipe, but there's no sections and it doesn't get any thicker.

• 30:36Speaker 00

  It just becomes smaller. And if you look underneath, where the emitters hang down,

• 30:44Speaker 00

  they turn. It, and it, it doesn't buckle. It's, it's a magical material. This is, this is the basis of the craft, is really the material that it's made of. It's, it's amazing, the way it works. It, you can push it into a smaller volume and it doesn't change at all. It doesn't, it doesn't get bigger physically. It's, I don't really know how to describe it.

• 31:13Joe Rogan?

  So you're lifting the pipe up and down, but it's not going anywhere?

• 31:17Speaker 00

  Look, if you had a big pipe and you push it together, it has to get thicker.

• 31:22Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 31:22Speaker 00

  Because the material has to go somewhere. This doesn't.

• 31:28Speaker 00

  Okay, it stays in exactly the same dimensions. It just becomes smaller.

• 31:34Joe Rogan?

  How?

• 31:34Speaker 00

  Well, yeah.

• 31:35Joe Rogan?

  Because you couldn't talk to the metallurgist, so you have no idea.

• 31:38Speaker 00

  Yeah, but those guys knew how.

• 31:39Joe Rogan?

  They did know how.

• 31:41Speaker 00

  I, well.

• 31:42Joe Rogan?

  Well, they know it did it.

• 31:43Speaker 00

  They know it, they know it did it, and that's their job. So I imagine they have more information than I did.

• 31:50Speaker 00

  But that was fascinating. It really was. And the, the waveguides that hold the emitters, they come down and the emitters can turn and bend. And the pipes bend and nothing changes in them. It's.

• 32:07Speaker 00

  And there's no wires or anything to make the pipe bend.

• 32:16Speaker 00

  I'm trying to relate it to something, but I can't think of anything to relate it to.

• 32:22Joe Rogan?

  Well, one thing that you said that I also thought was fascinating, there's no seams. So everything looks like it's 3D printed.

• 32:28Speaker 00

  Again, right, it comes down to the material.

• 32:30Joe Rogan?

  Which at the time, 3D printers weren't real, right?

• 32:34Speaker 00

  Yeah, at the time, that really confused me. I said, how did they build this? It must have been built out of wax or something and then melted.

• 32:44Speaker 00

  Because you can't build anything without seams. And then 3D printing came into existence and, you know, you could build stuff from layers up.

• 32:54Speaker 00

  That made sense. I know, some sort of 3D printer, or they grew it, you know, in some... Of course, it's not a crystalline fashion, but...

• 33:08Speaker 00

  I don't know how that was fabricated, but it was fabricated different than anything that we have. I don't even think it was 3D printed.

• 33:16Joe Rogan?

  And so you never got any inkling or any understanding of what the metal was? What kind of an alloy, what it consisted of?

• 33:27Speaker 00

  All I can say, it was cold to the touch, because the, you know, when I touched it, but,

• 33:33Speaker 00

  I can't say if it was a ceramic or a metal. I'd say it was metal because it was cold.

• 33:39Joe Rogan?

  Because it looks like metal.

• 33:40Speaker 00

  Yeah, it looks like metal.

• 33:42Joe Rogan?

  This is the Designs by Perry version of it. Does that... How much did that look like it?

• 33:48Speaker 00

  No, that's 100%. That's it. It's got to have the first ripple supposed to be black. Yeah, right, see?

• 33:58Speaker 00

  So Luigi has gone over this so many times, yeah. There's an insulator ring in there.

• 34:04Joe Rogan?

  Jamie, show what it looks like in the film, if you could show one of the images.

• 34:09Speaker 04

  I was pulling it off the trailer and I don't... They've been holding that back.

• 34:13Speaker 00

  Yeah, on the trailer, there's a couple of shots. Yeah, there's a ring around it. And we measured the voltage on the craft and there was a high voltage on it.

• 34:23Speaker 00

  And above that ring, there is none.

• 34:26Speaker 03

  This is not a good shot. There's probably a... Yeah, it's very quick, Matt. This is the original trailer. It's the new trailer that would actually... Yeah, that one there. And you'll get to see it right... there. Actually, right after this. It's actually before this, I believe. You're gonna see the craft. And if you see, there's a black... right, there's like a black line. It's the first ripple. That's actually not metal.

• 34:57Speaker 00

  Yeah, we call that the... Yeah, there it is. That's a good shot. We call that the insulator ring because below that, there's a high voltage present on the craft all the time, and above that, there isn't.

• 35:13Joe Rogan?

  I would imagine that your life has like two completely different chapters. It's before this and after this. Whereas like, once you see it, the whole rest of your life is now going to be very different. And you are in its presence for... How long did you work there for?

• 35:33Speaker 00

  I don't know, maybe six months or so?

• 35:35Joe Rogan?

  So for six months, you're around this thing. And I would imagine that's to occupy your thoughts 24 hours a day.

• 35:43Speaker 00

  Well, at the time, it did, for sure. It's actually three stages to the life. It's before it, during, and after it. Before it was just my life. During was when it happened. And then the after part of my life is almost trying to dismiss it, you know, to just go on.

• 36:02Joe Rogan?

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• 36:46Joe Rogan?

  Takes a few minutes to sign up. Chime is a fintech, not a bank. Banking services and Chime card provided by Chime's bank partners. Terms and limits apply. Go to chime.com/disclosures for more details. This episode is brought to you by NOCO. You're miles from home. You turn the key, nothing. Dead battery. Normally that means finding another car, someone willing to give you a jump, and dealing with old jumper cables. But what if you didn't need any of that? Keep a NOCO portable jump starter in your glove box and jump start your car yourself. No cables, no second vehicle, no waiting for help. It also works as a power bank and has a built-in LED flashlight.

• 37:31Joe Rogan?

  NOCO, the end of jumper cables. Use code ROGEN10 for 10% off. Select jump starters at NO.co. Yeah, you didn't talk about it for a long time. I mean, you did the George Knapp interviews. You talked about it a little. You made some videos explaining things and how things worked.

• 37:50Speaker 00

  No, I don't, I don't really like public attention. And I don't really like doing interviews.

• 37:58Speaker 00

  As you probably know.

• 38:02Speaker 00

  You know, but I know there's people that thrive on that stuff, but you know,

• 38:11Speaker 00

  I felt privileged to be part of the project, but it left me with an insatiable appetite. Oh my God, I want to know where it's gone. Look, even when I was there in the eighties, they were talking about moving the project at that time. So.

• 38:29Speaker 00

  I really, I'm dying to know, is it still there? Has it moved on? Did they split it up and move it to other places? Yeah, I remember Barry talking about moving it to the South Pacific, like in Quadillion or something, but they said the expenses were so great, they couldn't do that. But they wanted it away from everybody. And they hated the fact that it was right alongside the highway in Nevada, you know, by South of Area 51. But that's the best place they had at the time and the most affordable. And of course, now with, you know, budgets being so tight, who knows where it is?

• 39:10Joe Rogan?

  Who knows if budgets are tight for this, though?

• 39:12Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's true. That's true.

• 39:14Joe Rogan?

  I mean, they did say, at whatever expense, figure this out.

• 39:19Speaker 00

  Yeah, they were serious about that. We don't really care what it was. So like the original Apollo program. You know, back in the Apollo program, if they needed parts, and if somebody had something ordered UPS, or through the mail, or whatever, they had the authority to stop that shipment to that other person and take their stuff if they needed it. And, you know, they had an unlimited budget. I mean, if you're working like that, you could do anything.

• 39:45Joe Rogan?

  Or at least anything that's currently possible with today's technology.

• 39:50Speaker 00

  There you go.

• 39:50Joe Rogan?

  Which therein lies the problem, is that they're dealing with something that's not possible with, like, you couldn't build it from scratch with American technology in 1989.

• 40:01Speaker 00

  No, but that's what they wanted to do. And really thinking about that now, I'm not sure, I'm not exactly sure these guys should be allowed to do that. This is really powerful technology. And the world has really changed. I mean, we have a lot of crazy people doing stuff now. And nonsense.

• 40:25Speaker 00

  Transmits through the population at the speed of light. And, you know, I don't know, this can be a very powerful, world conquering technology. And, look, for 40 years, I think I've said this before, for 40 years, all the people in control of this information have all agreed to keep it quiet. And these aren't idiots. These aren't idiots for 40 years. You have a line of people that all have agreed, no, let's not say anything, no, let's not say anything, no, let's not say anything. There has to be a reason why. And if they all agreed to that, maybe I'm the asshole.

• 41:08Speaker 00

  No, really, maybe they're right, and...

• 41:13Joe Rogan?

  Maybe you would have figured that out if you kept working for them.

• 41:16Speaker 00

  Yeah, I don't know, but I'm increasingly thinking, I'm the one that made the mistake. Maybe this is supposed to be just kept quiet.

• 41:26Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but that doesn't ring true. Because I don't think it's ever healthy if small groups of individuals have information that would change our understanding of where we are.

• 41:41Speaker 00

  Yeah, there's that, there's that.

• 41:42Joe Rogan?

  It's, I don't think they, I don't think they deserve it, I don't think it's right, I don't think it makes any sense. I think you have an obligation to...

• 41:49Speaker 00

  Well, I don't know, I mean, really, but really think about it. What if it's something that's really dramatic?

• 41:53Joe Rogan?

  Like, how so? What do you think would be like...

• 41:58Speaker 00

  I don't know, maybe, I mean, what if it's, I'm not saying this is what it is, but I mean, what if it's like, you know, like we, like we raise cows out in a field and just feed them grass and they're just gonna be food? What if it's something like that? What if we're just like, you know, a population of creatures that are just to be consumed in some way?

• 42:23Joe Rogan?

  I don't know if we're to be consumed, but I do think we are.

• 42:27Speaker 00

  Not physically consumed like Eaton, but I mean.

• 42:30Joe Rogan?

  I think we have a task. And I'm more and more convinced as time goes on that we were engineered.

• 42:40Joe Rogan?

  I don't think we came about as a normal evolutionary process like all the other animals.

• 42:44Speaker 00

  Yeah, I agree with that. I really agree with that too.

• 42:47Joe Rogan?

  There's a lot of people that think that. It just doesn't make sense objectively. I mean, without seeming like a kook or someone who buys into conspiracy theories, if you just look at all the other biology on earth, why is one so uniquely able to manipulate its environment, communicate instantaneously at distance, can't really even exist in its environment in most places that it lives without clothes and shelter? We're a weird animal. We're very strange. Like, we don't seem to have normally adapted to our environment with the way we've completely controlled our environment with air conditioning

• 43:29Joe Rogan?

  and electricity and electronics and flight and travel. We're so beyond everything else that evolved, whereas every other animal, predator or prey, plant eater or meat eater, all seems to cohesively exist inside of its ecosystem. And then you have us, which is like, almost like an invasive species. Like invasive species destroy ecosystems like because they don't belong there. Well, that's kind of what we do. Like, we suck all the fish out of the ocean, we pollute the rivers with our technology, we, you know, mess up underground water systems with fracking and drilling. We're like an invasive species in a lot of ways.

• 44:14Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 44:16Joe Rogan?

  We're really weird.

• 44:17Speaker 00

  I can't argue with that at all.

• 44:19Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, this Tim Burchett thing. So, Tim Burchett has recently been talking about this and that he can't talk about it because it's classified, but he said you'd be up at night with the things that I've seen if the things that I've seen have released.

• 44:36Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. He said, "We just need you to disclose it all. I'm sick of it." "Oh, well, I was briefed," and I will tell you this, "I was briefed last week on an issue," or excuse me, "two weeks ago," and it would have set the earth on, this country would have become unglued. I think if they would have heard all that I heard.

• 44:54Speaker 00

  Well, this is what I was talking about.

• 44:56Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 44:56Speaker 00

  If, you know, it's not like there's a bunch of space brothers coming down going, "Oh, look what we discovered, you know, here, have some information," and, you know, what if it's not that? What if all the information is bad?

• 45:12Joe Rogan?

  Well, what would be bad? Like, have you ever thought about this? Tried to like, play it out to its natural conclusion? Like, what do you think the scenarios could be that's bad?

• 45:20Speaker 00

  I don't know. Everything that we're... Look, we view ourselves at the top of the food chain. What if we're not anywhere near there?

• 45:30Joe Rogan?

  I don't think we are.

• 45:31Speaker 00

  Okay, what if we're just consumables?

• 45:34Joe Rogan?

  Well, I don't know if like chimpanzees are consumables, right? They're not at the top of the food chain either, right? But...

• 45:41Speaker 00

  No, but there's... I would consider them substantially lower than we are.

• 45:46Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 45:47Speaker 00

  Like, my... My good friend that died, John Lear, who had a bunch of crazy thoughts. I mean, he used to come over and tell us that,

• 45:58Speaker 00

  you know, "On the moon, there was a soul sucker." And when you... He did, he said this, "You better give me that bottle."

• 46:08Joe Rogan?

  Have another drink before you explain this one.

• 46:12Joe Rogan?

  Oh, boy. A soul sucker. John Lear was an eccentric individual. I'm just kinda sad I never met him.

• 46:21Speaker 00

  Man, he would... Supporting evidence? He was a...

• 46:24Joe Rogan?

  What? Terrence McKenna talking about the moon being a soul catcher?

• 46:28Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah. No, and he'd give me pictures of these giant antennas on the moon and... In fact, I'll tell you a story. He, um... You know, he was an accomplished pilot, had many world records and things of that, you know? Part of the Lear family, that his father invented autopilot, the eight-track tape, all kinds of stuff. And, uh... But he... John Lear was a loose cannon. At the time, uh...

• 47:00Speaker 00

  He'd fly from Las Vegas and, you know, shuttle L-1011s, which are giant planes, back and forth. And he'd say, you know, be kind of lonely. He goes, hey, you want to go to Minneapolis tonight? He'd call me like at nine o'clock at night and say, well, no, not really. Come on, come on, fly with me. He said, just put on a suit and, you know, come to so and so. And I'd go to McCarran Airport and, you know, go there. And, yeah, I'm going to tell everybody you're, you know, an inspector from the FAA. And I'm like, okay, great. You know, and I'd get on the plane and they'd say, you know, just act like you're, you know, going to kick everyone's ass. So I'd go on there and I'd sit in the,

• 47:45Speaker 00

  they fold down a jump seat behind the plane and I'd just sit there looking at everybody and, God, all of this stuff is so illegal. And, you know, get on there and fly. And, you know, John would take, and the L-1011 was a pretty advanced plane at the time. This was in the 80s. And, you know, John would be smoking his pipe. He'd take off, he'd put his feet up and smoke his pipe, and he'd fall asleep. And I'd just be, you know, hanging out there. And, you know, before the plane would land, he'd just, you know, wake up and, you know, be smoking his pipe and the, you know, plane would land itself.

• 48:24Speaker 00

  At the time, my wife was taking flying lessons. And he said, yeah, yeah, you know, bring her up here. And I think they had an engineer also on another panel. I don't, I don't quite remember, but I was there with my wife, there were people on board. And he'd say, hey, come on here and take the wheel. And he'd get the captain of the plane would...

• 48:52Speaker 00

  You know, I think my wife was in her twenties at the time and just sit her down and say, "Yeah, hold on to it and, you know, just keep correcting it." And he'd just let her fly the plane, which is insane. And, you know, the copilot would just look over and I remember looking over at, I think, the engineer that looked at the gauges and he just put his head down and pretended like nothing was happening. And that was just one time. Another time, he was ferrying an L-1011, going by Roswell. At the time, I was living in New Mexico. And they called him and told him he wasn't getting paid, that the company was,

• 49:37Speaker 00

  you know, defaulted or something like that. And he was coming up to New Mexico and landed at the Roswell, just took the plane and landed at the Roswell Airport. The whole 1011 got off, walked out, walked up to a bus station, gave me a call on the payphone and said, "Hey, Bob, I'm coming over." "Okay, you know, you're in New Mexico?" "Yeah." And he drove up, taxi would drop him off at the house. He'd walk, he walked in, he went, "Boy, I'm tired." And he'd just lay down on the couch, you know, and go to sleep. And I said, "What are you doing here? What's going on?" "Oh, I just dropped the plane off. They're not

• 50:18Speaker 00

  paying me." And, you know, that's it. But, I mean, John Lehr was such like a loose cannon. He was, he was a great friend to have, but he had no bullshit filter. If he had a retired general come up and give him all kinds of information, or if he had a psychic come up from, you know, the neighborhood and give him all kinds of information, he'd put him in the same category. Ah. You know? And so, he really did have useful information that was difficult to get, but it was mixed up with nonsense. Right. And

• 51:00Speaker 00

  And sometimes he would just really lean into that nonsense. Like, he was convinced that the sun wasn't hot and there were people living inside. And I used to die laughing. I went, "You are insane." I said, "You can't prove it's hot." "Yes, I can." You know, "Just go outside, you know, on a hot day." You know, and, you know, and John said, "That's not the sun. That's just the sun's atmosphere that's on fire." And I said, "You're just crazy." But we got along, and he knew that I thought he was crazy. But the thing is, a lot of people did come to him and give him good information.

• 51:45Speaker 00

  Anyway, I don't remember where I was going with this story.

• 51:47Joe Rogan?

  That's the thing about some people. Some people will tell you nonsense, and then they'll tell you true things. And it's difficult to accept that true things also come from people that say nonsense.

• 51:59Speaker 00

  Right.

• 51:59Joe Rogan?

  Like, just because they've said something that's nonsense doesn't mean necessarily that this thing they're saying is not true, this other thing. And you've got to be able to discern. You've got, like, I talk to a lot of people that say a lot of kooky things that don't make any sense, but then they'll say something that rings true. And it's difficult, because you have to have some sort of an understanding of the human psyche and of those kind of people, because there are kind of people that have very loose nets.

• 52:29Speaker 00

  You're counting on their filter working like yours.

• 52:32Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and it doesn't.

• 52:32Speaker 00

  And, no, it doesn't.

• 52:34Joe Rogan?

  But some good stuff gets in there, and you go, "Hold on. What'd you just say?"

• 52:37Speaker 00

  Right.

• 52:37Joe Rogan?

  "Tell me that again. How does that one work?"

• 52:40Speaker 00

  Yeah, you can't really discount people, because somebody comes up with some absolute nonsense.

• 52:44Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 52:44Speaker 00

  It just means their filter is defective.

• 52:47Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 52:47Speaker 00

  But...

• 52:48Joe Rogan?

  Which is also the reason why they're willing to entertain things that are outside of the normal spectrum.

• 52:53Speaker 00

  Right.

• 52:54Joe Rogan?

  So, like, they might have actual, real, useful information, but it's wrapped up in there with Bigfoot.

• 53:03Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 53:03Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 53:04Speaker 00

  Yeah, exactly.

• 53:05Joe Rogan?

  But so the soul catcher thing.

• 53:06Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah, that's where I was going, the soul catcher. So I remember him sitting and I think he was telling my wife Joy the story because I walked in on it. And he said, yeah, there are these giant antennas and when you die,

• 53:23Speaker 00

  your soul goes up and I think he said the grays, you know, this alien race, set up this soul catcher and that's what this whole thing is about. And as you die, it sucks your soul in and they use it in some way. And it's not where your soul is supposed to go. They just like set some sort of intercept.

• 53:45Joe Rogan?

  Did he say where your soul was supposed to go?

• 53:47Speaker 00

  No.

• 53:48Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 53:48Speaker 00

  No, he was just more really into the soul catcher.

• 53:51Joe Rogan?

  But that was one of the weirder things about some of the documents that you had at least been alerted to when you were on the base and one of them being that humans are.

• 54:01Speaker 00

  Containers, yeah.

• 54:03Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 54:04Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 54:04Joe Rogan?

  Which the likely conclusion is containers of souls. If a soul is a real thing, whatever the.

• 54:10Speaker 00

  That's what you would think.

• 54:11Joe Rogan?

  Right. I mean, that's what I thought.

• 54:13Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean.

• 54:14Joe Rogan?

  It's just a guess.

• 54:15Speaker 00

  I would prefer to believe that that's not true.

• 54:20Speaker 00

  But maybe it is. I just, I don't know. As Barry said, you know, they mix absolute nonsense in there. So if they get, if you, and it's unique to each person. So if you give out any information and they go, we heard some stuff about soul catchers. Oh, we know that came from Lazar. So that's just a way where they can direct where it, where it came to. But.

• 54:46Joe Rogan?

  None of the problem is like decades and decades, generations, generations of people working there. How many people know what the real truth is and how many people know?

• 54:54Speaker 00

  I don't know. I mean, there must be. Yeah, there must be a group of people that really have the pure information of what's going on.

• 55:01Joe Rogan?

  I would assume, but not necessarily. I would think.

• 55:05Speaker 00

  There has to be, there has to be a group of people that know what's going on and.

• 55:10Joe Rogan?

  Who are those people?

• 55:11Speaker 00

  You know, and to me, like I was telling Luigi, I have a bunch of questions for me. You know.

• 55:19Joe Rogan?

  Right. Like, what would be your questions for you if you met you?

• 55:22Speaker 00

  Yeah, now, questions for me are people that ask me over decades, the same same questions. You know, why is it the Navy? The Navy paid me, I always said the Navy, everything has been the Navy instead of the Air Force. Because, you know, back in the sixties and seventies, you know, there's Project Bluebird and the Air Force and all that. But everything associated with this was the Navy. So, and in these days, you hear some of these new types of crafts that are.

• 55:59Joe Rogan?

  Transmedium.

• 56:00Speaker 00

  Yeah, you you hear the word transmedium and, you know, David Fravor, Commander David Fravor, you know, with the Tic Tac. And, you know, things are under the water. And, you know, supposedly, the the craft that the sport model was an archaeological recovery. And that itself was underwater. So what is, what is the deal with the water? I mean, it's, it's by far the biggest medium of the planet. I mean, if you want to hide people down there, almost an entire civilization down there, you could do it in the ocean. As long as you do it deep enough and away from people.

• 56:45Speaker 00

  So, yeah, number one is, what's the deal with the ocean? That's probably the the number one question.

• 56:51Joe Rogan?

  Because there's a ton of sightings where people see things come out of the water and go into the water.

• 56:58Speaker 00

  Yeah, there has to be a reason for that.

• 57:00Joe Rogan?

  Well, just in terms of if they have the ability to travel through space. If they, if whatever that thing is really does create some sort of a gravity bubble or some sort of a space-time bubble.

• 57:12Speaker 00

  Yeah, but maybe it's not space.

• 57:16Speaker 00

  Maybe it's not space, maybe, maybe it's time, maybe it's another dimension. There's, there's really no limits. If you can start manipulating physics in that way.

• 57:31Speaker 00

  You can bend time, you can open doorways into other dimensions, so.

• 57:40Speaker 00

  Maybe it has nothing to do with going, I, look, we all want it to be like Star Trek.

• 57:45Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 57:45Speaker 00

  You know, because Star Trek is really understandable.

• 57:49Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 57:49Speaker 00

  You go out there, you fly to another planet, you meet the people there, you go to another one. Well, these guys are happy, those guys aren't, you know, and it all makes perfect sense. I don't really think it's like that.

• 58:02Speaker 00

  Look, you know, if you look in history, especially, you know, in United States history, anytime a superior race or intelligence meets with an inferior one, it's never good for the inferior guys. Never. We never come over and go, oh, we just want to teach you guys everything that we know.

• 58:25Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 58:25Speaker 00

  No, no.

• 58:25Joe Rogan?

  Nope.

• 58:26Speaker 00

  It's like, we're gonna rape all your women, take all your stuff, and then just kill you.

• 58:30Joe Rogan?

  Use your resources.

• 58:31Speaker 00

  Yeah, right, and just consume everything you want. That's just always the way it goes. Now, maybe that's just what humans do. But I would be concerned that's what all life does.

• 58:43Joe Rogan?

  Well, we are territorial primates. And that makes sense that that's what we do. The thing that always fascinates me about particularly the grays, they seem to be genderless, and they seem to have no muscle at all, they, and they seem to have enormous heads. And the stories, at least, the anecdotal accounts of people having communication with these creatures, is that they communicate in some way telepathically.

• 59:12Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 59:13Joe Rogan?

  If you transcend all of our weird biological needs, like, all the things that are attached to being a human being, ego, lust, greed, desire to conquer, desire to control resources, all those things are territorial primate instincts. And one of the conversations I had yesterday with my friend Theo, we were talking about, like, what's happening to people's bodies. Is that people are slowly, we're, we're consuming microplastics and phthalates and all these things that are reducing our reproductive system, our testosterone's dropping.

• 59:50Speaker 00

  Right, right.

• 59:51Joe Rogan?

  All this stuff like leads you to say, well, where does this go ultimately? Like, well, like, how many more people are autistic now than were before? It's one out of 12 boys in California now. It used to be one out of 10,000, just a few decades ago. Like, we're moving into this very weird direction without us recognizing it.

• 1:00:12Speaker 00

  Wait, let me stop you there. It's one out of how many?

• 1:00:14Joe Rogan?

  One out of 12 boys in California are diagnosed autistic now.

• 1:00:19Speaker 00

  But do you think that might be the way they're diagnosed?

• 1:00:24Joe Rogan?

  No. No, I think it's exposure. I think it's exposure to chemicals, vaccines, environmental toxins.

• 1:00:31Speaker 00

  You think that too?

• 1:00:32Speaker 03

  I think that.

• 1:00:32Joe Rogan?

  It's not just me. There's tons of studies, and, and a lot of buried studies, too.

• 1:00:37Speaker 00

  I mean, if that's accurate, that's frightening, yeah.

• 1:00:40Joe Rogan?

  Well, it is, it's, it can't be just diagnosed, because, I mean, I know so many people that have non-verbal autistic kids. Or I didn't know anybody that had non-verbal autistic kids when I was younger.

• 1:00:50Speaker 00

  Well, you know, I mean, back in the 60s and 70s, there was no, there were no kids with ADHD. Kids that were like that were just assholes.

• 1:01:01Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:01:02Speaker 00

  You know?

• 1:01:02Joe Rogan?

  I think that's still the case. I don't think ADHD is a real diagnosis. I think it's a real excuse to give people medication. I think ADHD is essentially a superpower. What ADHD is allows you to concentrate on things that you really enjoy, but you cannot concentrate on things you don't enjoy. I think I have it, you know, and I think I'm very fortunate that I'm not diagnosed and medicated, or wasn't, or was born in the right time when they weren't doing that as much.

• 1:01:29Speaker 00

  No, I, actually, I'll stop you there and say, I, I agree that that's a superpower, too.

• 1:01:33Joe Rogan?

  Because it's very unusual. I can, if I find a thing that I like, I can lock in and concentrate on it for 12, 14 hours with no sleep, no food. All I need is like water or coffee, and I'm locked in.

• 1:01:47Speaker 03

  I locked in for four and a half years.

• 1:01:49Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, I know.

• 1:01:51Joe Rogan?

  I don't, I don't think, I think with ADHD is you're taking kids, you're putting them in a completely unnatural environment, you're making them sit down, they don't want to sit down, they're very active and energetic, you're making them study things by very unenthusiastic teachers, they don't want to pay attention, they're fucking off in class because they're completely bored, and then you're saying, "That kid's got a problem, we have to diagnose him." And then what do you give them? You give them Adderall, and all of a sudden the kid's locked in because they're on fucking speed.

• 1:02:17Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:02:18Joe Rogan?

  And I just think-

• 1:02:19Speaker 00

  Yeah, but if you focus in and let them do what they're interested in-

• 1:02:22Joe Rogan?

  Give that kid a video game, watch him play it for fucking 10 hours with no food.

• 1:02:26Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:02:26Joe Rogan?

  Because that's what happens, because that's something that they're actually engaged with. It's not that they can't be focused on anything, they just don't focus on things they enjoy, and we want to turn people into nice little factory workers.

• 1:02:37Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:02:38Joe Rogan?

  And the only way to do that is you got to get a kid to comply, you got to get a kid to pay attention, follow the rules.

• 1:02:43Speaker 00

  We're on the same channel.

• 1:02:44Joe Rogan?

  It's a really great point. I don't believe that ADHD is a real thing, I just think there's some people that are wired differently, and they should pursue different things in life.

• 1:02:52Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:02:52Joe Rogan?

  The difference between that and autism is very different, and autism is, especially when it happens, like, almost directly after multiple vaccinations. There's a lot of them they point to, particularly the MMR vaccine, there's, but there's quite a few. When you look at the schedule of vaccines, and how it ramped up, and it completely correlates with the ramping up of the diagnoses of autism, but, but without casting aspersions or getting into some anti-vaccine conversation-

• 1:03:21Speaker 00

  Wait, you just did.

• 1:03:23Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I did, but what I'm saying is, but ultimately, the human race is moving into a very weird place. So I had a conversation with, um, Shannon Swan, Dr. Shannon Swan, who is, uh, she studies environmental endocrine disruptors, so various toxins, phthalates, microplastics, and plasticizers that are completely disruptive to people's endocrine system, reproductive system, and from the introduction of these petrochemical products in the 1950s and 60s, you see a direct correlation between the dip in testosterone

• 1:03:59Joe Rogan?

  amongst men, the increase of miscarriages and infertility. And then on top of that, the actual shrinking of their taint. So one of the ways they find out the difference between mammals, some mammals in particular, when you see a baby mammal, the difference between a male and a female is easily recognized by the size of the gap between their anal, their anal hole and where their genitals are.

• 1:04:30Speaker 00

  But that could just be correlation.

• 1:04:34Speaker 00

  You know, it's like.

• 1:04:35Joe Rogan?

  No, no, no, no, no, explain why it's not. Because when they've done studies where they've used phthalates, particularly phthalates, and they've introduced them specifically purposely into certain mammals and rodents, their taint shrinks. And their taint shrinks and their penises, their penis size shrinks. And there's studies on alligators, where alligators, when they live in polluted rivers, they have smaller penises. And she talked about all this, and all this, these are endocrine disruptors that are in the environment, that are doing something that reduces fertility. And it changes the way the human biology functions. And it makes men more feminine, and it makes women less fertile. Well, ultimately, when you look at the grays, what do they look like?

• 1:05:19Joe Rogan?

  They look like they have no genitals, they look like they have no sex, they have... That might be where biology has to go to transcend away from our territorial primate biology. Our territorial primate biology that is insistent on war and violence and...

• 1:05:37Speaker 00

  Right, and we think this is the place to stay.

• 1:05:40Joe Rogan?

  Exactly.

• 1:05:41Speaker 00

  And it may not be.

• 1:05:42Joe Rogan?

  It may not be. It may be completely non beneficial to all life.

• 1:05:46Speaker 00

  Right, right.

• 1:05:47Joe Rogan?

  That we have to transcend that. And while we are transcending it, whether we like it or not, and what I was saying is that I don't know if it's a bug. I think it might be a feature of evolution. That our insistence on using plastics and technology and all of these different environmental toxins that we use to produce energy and all the goods and services that we need.

• 1:06:15Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:06:16Joe Rogan?

  Also are disrupting our endocrine system and changing us from being these hulking, hair-covered cavemen to being these very small, slight autistic men that can fucking code 24 hours a day without sleep.

• 1:06:31Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:06:32Joe Rogan?

  It seems like if you extrapolate and you naturally take that further, well, what do you get? You get really skinny things with no muscles and giant heads.

• 1:06:41Speaker 03

  My, my take also, and I, and I do agree with that, is what I find out, what I find sometimes really concerning is how fast that's moving. So it's not just a question of like, is this actually, this is probably a thing, but it's moving so incredibly fast. If I look at my father's generation or my grandfather's generation and my generation, I mean, it's, it's similar, but now it's moving so fast. Yeah, I, I, I do agree with your saying, and I'm thinking, if it's moving so fast, there could be a not, a natural component to it, but there's an intentional component to it.

• 1:07:23Joe Rogan?

  Right. If you wanted to do something to erase, to change it, like, think about what we did with wolves, right? All dogs are wolves.

• 1:07:31Speaker 03

  Yeah, right, right.

• 1:07:32Joe Rogan?

  I have two dogs that are the furthest fucking thing from wolves you could possibly imagine.

• 1:07:36Speaker 03

  Is that marshmallow?

• 1:07:37Joe Rogan?

  Marshall.

• 1:07:38Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:07:38Joe Rogan?

  He might be a marshmallow.

• 1:07:40Speaker 03

  Okay, Marshall.

• 1:07:42Joe Rogan?

  I have Marshall, who's a golden retriever, who's the sweetest dog of all time. And I have another dog named Charlie, who's a King Charles Cavalier Spaniel, who is even further from a wolf than Marshall. He's just a cute little fuzzy little sweetheart. They have no killer instincts whatsoever. That used to be a wolf, right? But what happened? We softened them to the point where there is something compatible with our modern life, with households and families and babies and can, we made them safe. And that's happening to people.

• 1:08:16Joe Rogan?

  It's happening to people, whether we like it or not. We could attribute it to all these different factors. Oh, it's a problem. We have to remove these things from the environment. This is what's going on. Maybe, or maybe you just look at the overall picture. There seems to be an insatiable desire for innovation and technology that human beings have. If you looked at us from afar, if you weren't part of the human race and you're just studying us, you're like, what does this species do? Well, makes better things. Makes better things all the time. Constantly. You know, I look, I have a iPhone 16 here. It's not as good as the iPhone 17. iPhone 17 is better. Why don't you get an iPhone 17? You know, it just like keeps going. It never stops. It never ends. The TVs get bigger. They get stronger. Your cars get faster.

• 1:08:55Joe Rogan?

  Your computer, just more cores, does processing, video editing, so much quicker. Everything moves faster and better. We keep making better things. We never stop and say, you know what? Society, right now, we have a lot of problems. The problems that we don't have are technology. Our technology seems completely suitable to this world that we're living in right now. Let's just stop making new things and concentrate on cleaning the rivers and concentrate on stopping crime and concentrate on educating people, concentrate on counseling for troubled young people. No, no, we just plow forward ahead with the one thing that we absolutely guaranteed do. We make better things. We make better weapons, better cars, faster planes. Everything we do, we make things better.

• 1:09:40Speaker 03

  And I'll, and I'll, sorry, I have to add, we do that and we also do it in a way where it's economically beneficial to the ones that are making it because we make things break now. Think about it. We make better things, but we make them so that you have to buy the better thing after.

• 1:09:56Joe Rogan?

  Right. Engineered obsolescence.

• 1:09:58Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's also important.

• 1:10:00Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it is, because then it, also, human beings have this very bizarre desire for materialism. Like, what, why would a thing with a finite lifespan want to accumulate objects? Like, I know people that are in their 80s that collect things. Like, what are you fucking doing with that stuff?

• 1:10:19Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:10:19Joe Rogan?

  You're gonna die. You have maybe like 10 summers left on, on earth. And here you are, collecting stamps or cars.

• 1:10:26Speaker 03

  10 summers, yeah. No, no. I have gotten to that.

• 1:10:30Joe Rogan?

  It's weird.

• 1:10:31Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, at some point, you...

• 1:10:34Speaker 00

  You have to bypass the accumulating stuff.

• 1:10:37Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:10:38Speaker 00

  Part of life.

• 1:10:38Joe Rogan?

  But materialism ensures a constant fueling.

• 1:10:43Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:10:44Joe Rogan?

  Of innovation. Because this is one of the things that gets people excited about collecting new stuff is that you're gonna make a better version. Like, I don't care how good your Mercedes is, it's not a 2026 Mercedes.

• 1:10:56Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:10:57Joe Rogan?

  It's even better, it has new features, it's a new thing. And so it's like all built into the human psychology and also to this thing that I said, like I said, if you were somewhere from somewhere else and studying this species, what does it do? It makes better things. What do sharks do? They eat things. They just swim around, they can't even stop swimming, they eat things. What do people do? They they really just make better things. They go to war. Why do they go to the war, really? They go to war so they can control resources, so they have more money, so they can make more things and better things. And also the amount of innovation that is in warfare, in war weapons, in war fighting.

• 1:11:35Speaker 00

  Yeah, that, yeah, that's actually critical.

• 1:11:37Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 1:11:38Speaker 00

  To keep the system going, yeah.

• 1:11:40Joe Rogan?

  Well, ultimately, all that does, and all of it releases more endocrine disruptors, more contact with all these different chemicals and toxins, feminizes men, ruins women's reproductive systems, to the point where ultimately we say, oh, for the survival of the race, we're gonna have to figure out how to reproduce non-biologically.

• 1:12:01Speaker 00

  When I first got involved in, uh, yeah, it's.

• 1:12:05Joe Rogan?

  It's something to ponder, right? It's something to ponder because we're so wrapped up in who we are. We're so wrapped up in, look, I love being a person. I love living in Texas, I love driving an American car, I love all those things. But what does that mean? Like, what is that? What is that? You know, these are just weird identity points that you connect with whatever this species is. But if you just could just have a above view, you'd look down and go, what are we doing?

• 1:12:34Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's a, that's a good question.

• 1:12:37Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:37Speaker 00

  That's a good question. Yeah, like, how far are we going and how fast are we going there?

• 1:12:42Joe Rogan?

  We're going pretty fucking fast. And now with AI, I think we're going way faster than we even understand. Because with Claude, I mean, they, they think that the Claude AI, the engineers, they, we think it's sentient already. It just doesn't have a physical body to move around.

• 1:12:58Speaker 00

  Look, AI is gonna kill us. Everybody agrees with that. There's no question.

• 1:13:02Joe Rogan?

  I don't think it's gonna kill us. You know what I think it's gonna do? I think it's gonna prevent us from breeding. And it's gonna let us die off.

• 1:13:09Speaker 00

  Well, that's gonna kill us, Joe.

• 1:13:11Joe Rogan?

  But I think we're gonna willingly go with it because we're gonna get like mates, like ex Machina. We're gonna just, something that takes care of you.

• 1:13:17Speaker 00

  As soon as they come out with a female robot.

• 1:13:21Joe Rogan?

  Uh huh.

• 1:13:22Speaker 00

  Yeah. That's sexually attractive.

• 1:13:24Joe Rogan?

  It's over.

• 1:13:25Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:13:25Joe Rogan?

  Game over.

• 1:13:26Speaker 00

  The game over.

• 1:13:26Joe Rogan?

  Game over.

• 1:13:27Speaker 00

  There's just gonna be.

• 1:13:28Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:29Speaker 00

  No more babies and we're just gonna die out.

• 1:13:31Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:32Speaker 00

  So.

• 1:13:32Joe Rogan?

  Or integrate. And I think it's much more likely that we integrate. And that's where you get the grays. I think that what the grays are is a combination of technology and biology. And if you just, if you just go from.

• 1:13:43Speaker 00

  It could very well be.

• 1:13:44Joe Rogan?

  Chimp to caveman to gray, you go, oh, I see where that's going. Chimp, caveman, human, modern human, gelatinous, soft, slow-moving, weak, modern human, grays.

• 1:14:01Speaker 00

  Like, I, I've always leaned into what Barry told me, because it's the only information I had, that the craft came from Zeta Reticuli, which is a star system thirty-some odd light-years away. And, um, you know, again, it was just like a Star Trek thing.

• 1:14:20Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:14:20Speaker 00

  They came over here for whatever reason. But that information may not be true.

• 1:14:27Joe Rogan?

  Right, that might information might be one of those things they put in that's nonsense.

• 1:14:32Speaker 00

  Again, if it's if it has to do with time, I think from what George has told me, Jacques Balle and some, you know, other really credible researchers have have said that these are people either from another dimension or another time, or maybe they're us from the future.

• 1:14:49Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:14:49Speaker 00

  You know, just coming back to interact with us in some way.

• 1:14:55Joe Rogan?

  Make sure we don't fuck everything up irreparably.

• 1:14:57Speaker 00

  Yeah, but it's it doesn't seem like they're doing a good job.

• 1:15:01Joe Rogan?

  Well, maybe fucking things up somewhat is also part of the plan. Maybe that actually has to take place.

• 1:15:08Speaker 00

  I mean, holy cow, look at the look at the way things are going right now. Holy cow.

• 1:15:14Joe Rogan?

  Exactly.

• 1:15:14Speaker 00

  Things are off totally off the rails.

• 1:15:18Joe Rogan?

  But maybe that's part of the plan. Maybe part of it is like it has to get so far sideways that we realize how fucked up everything is that we start making meaningful changings and implement AI as government.

• 1:15:31Speaker 00

  That's a dangerous thing.

• 1:15:32Joe Rogan?

  Exactly, but is it as dangerous as Iran getting nukes? I don't know. Is it as dangerous as global Islamic caliphate? No, it's not Iran.

• 1:15:41Speaker 00

  Iran's not getting nukes. I mean, they never they.

• 1:15:47Speaker 00

  Never mind. I don't want to get into political stuff.

• 1:15:50Joe Rogan?

  No, you could. You could look if you gave Iran the technology to get nukes.

• 1:15:56Speaker 00

  They everyone has any any physicist has the technology to get nukes.

• 1:16:00Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:16:00Speaker 00

  I mean, the difficulty is actually making the material. So, I mean, if I was Iran, I would enrich to 80 or 90% because that's where you can make a weapon and and stop there.

• 1:16:13Joe Rogan?

  Right, it's not like they would be the only people with the weapon, Pakistan, in the North Korea.

• 1:16:18Speaker 00

  But that doesn't make you have a weapon. It just gives you a shortcut to it. And making a weapon from there and being able to deliver a weapon, you know, to 4,000 miles away. Good luck with that. That's a big deal. So.

• 1:16:38Joe Rogan?

  Right, but they're in communication with China who has that. They're in communication with Russia.

• 1:16:42Speaker 00

  They don't need to enrich uranium or do anything. They just, can you give me a missile?

• 1:16:47Joe Rogan?

  Right, but wouldn't they rather make their own?

• 1:16:49Speaker 00

  No.

• 1:16:49Joe Rogan?

  But it's not even the point.

• 1:16:50Speaker 00

  Rather make their own. Why would you do that? Would you rather make your own car or just somebody give it to you? No, why would you do that? You've got a buddy that'll just give you one.

• 1:17:02Joe Rogan?

  Because you'd want to be self-sufficient. You'd want to have your own production where you don't have to rely on someone.

• 1:17:07Speaker 00

  No, you can always do that. You can always do that.

• 1:17:10Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 1:17:10Speaker 00

  I don't think they're ever, they were ever gonna, they're gonna absolutely make a weapon now.

• 1:17:16Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:17:17Speaker 00

  Because we're, you know, kicking their ass. As everyone has learned, I guess you have to have nuclear weapons now to.

• 1:17:24Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:17:25Speaker 00

  You know, but this is a really bad situation.

• 1:17:30Joe Rogan?

  Oh, it's a horrible situation.

• 1:17:31Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:17:32Joe Rogan?

  But my point is, why is this situation taking place? The situation taking place is because human beings suck, right? We suck in how we interact with each other.

• 1:17:43Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:17:44Joe Rogan?

  We suck, we suck because we're territorial primates with weapons of mass destruction.

• 1:17:50Speaker 00

  Can't we just all get along?

• 1:17:52Joe Rogan?

  Right. Well, what is the way to stop that from ever happening? Well, one, you will let a catastrophe unfold and then you offer a solution to make sure these catastrophes never unfold again. Well, what's the best solution? Well, we have something far smarter than people that will take over control of resources in government.

• 1:18:10Speaker 00

  AI.

• 1:18:11Joe Rogan?

  AI.

• 1:18:11Speaker 00

  Yeah. This is Colossus. You ever seen the movie Colossus?

• 1:18:17Speaker 04

  Got to watch it.

• 1:18:18Speaker 00

  Well, that's the merit against you.

• 1:18:23Speaker 00

  The movie Colossus was a 1960s or 70s movie and it's about.

• 1:18:32Speaker 00

  You know, the scientists makes, deep inside this mountain, a computer to take over the defense of the United States. And, you know, they build this gigantic computer inside Cheyenne Mountain, or something similar to it. And, you know, they flipped the switch and they went, "Okay, we're protected. We're in good shape." And shortly after time goes on, you know, they realize, "Wow, the computer's really performing better than we expected." And, as it turns out, Russia had done the same thing. And the computers wanted to communicate together.

• 1:19:14Speaker 00

  And, you know, they start communicating, and then the United States goes, "Well, they might be giving our secrets away, so we better, you know, cut the communication line." And the computers freak out and they go, "Well, I guess we'll just launch nuclear bombs," you know, "at everybody." And they, it launches weapons and, you know, essentially holds everybody hostage, but...

• 1:19:38Speaker 03

  It's kind of like a trap. It's kind of like a trap. If we go that way, it could trap us.

• 1:19:46Speaker 00

  It's exactly a trap.

• 1:19:47Joe Rogan?

  Well, you know, in simulated war games, AIs use nuclear weapons?

• 1:19:50Speaker 00

  Oh, they, they, 98% of the time. Yeah. I mean, yeah, because, why wouldn't they? Because, I mean, look, the goal is to win.

• 1:19:58Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:19:59Speaker 00

  And, "We're gonna present you with the scenario." And they go, "Okay, nuke 'em." You know, and, "Why wouldn't you pick that? You gonna start with slapping 'em in the face?"

• 1:20:10Joe Rogan?

  Well, why is it better to just bomb them over and over and over again, until you achieve the same amount of deaths?

• 1:20:15Speaker 00

  That's the slap in the face. Nuke 'em, it's over with, we can move on from there.

• 1:20:20Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:20:21Speaker 00

  So, yeah.

• 1:20:22Joe Rogan?

  Well, you think about what happened in Gaza. Like, you look at the leveling of all those buildings, the mass destruction.

• 1:20:27Speaker 00

  It's terrible.

• 1:20:28Joe Rogan?

  It looks like a nuke.

• 1:20:29Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:20:30Joe Rogan?

  It looks like one nuke, instead of thousands of missiles and bombs. It's one nuke.

• 1:20:35Speaker 00

  But, but it's not.

• 1:20:36Joe Rogan?

  Right. In terms of the amount of damage you could do instantaneously.

• 1:20:39Speaker 00

  Because, I mean, because we can detect a nuke.

• 1:20:42Joe Rogan?

  Was there ever any conversation that you were privy to, where they discussed? Because one of the things that does come up over and over again in UFO discussions is these crafts that show up at these military bases and shut down all the weapon systems.

• 1:20:56Speaker 00

  No, I, I actually know nothing about that.

• 1:21:01Speaker 00

  Most of the UFO stuff, or UFO lore that I've heard, I don't know anything about. I've just looked at and found interesting.

• 1:21:08Joe Rogan?

  That's so fascinating because you're the most prominent figure in all of UFO lore. That's what I was telling him yesterday.

• 1:21:13Speaker 00

  Yeah, but I really, I really only like to talk about what I know about.

• 1:21:18Joe Rogan?

  Right, of course.

• 1:21:19Speaker 00

  And I've heard, I mean, I've heard other stories, but I've never heard them officially. I don't know if they're really real.

• 1:21:27Joe Rogan?

  What's one of the things that makes you most credible? Because you're not a UFO guy.

• 1:21:31Speaker 00

  I guess, but I mean...

• 1:21:32Joe Rogan?

  Yes, it does, with me. Because when people are like way too into it, they want to believe too much, you know?

• 1:21:38Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. But no, I don't know anything about it.

• 1:21:41Joe Rogan?

  Do you know who these people are?

• 1:21:43Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, Betty and Barney Hill.

• 1:21:45Joe Rogan?

  Okay, well, so you know a little bit.

• 1:21:46Speaker 00

  Yeah, they were the first abductees. I mean, to me, they're, I don't, I don't know who first introduced those to me. And I looked them up and, you know, people said, "Do you believe them?" And I'm kind of inclined to believe them because, look, in the 1960s, right? Where they're from, the last thing you want to do is be recognized as a mixed-race couple. Right? I mean...

• 1:22:17Joe Rogan?

  Right, and go public with the story.

• 1:22:18Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean, holy cow, they would hate you.

• 1:22:21Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:22Speaker 00

  A black person and a white person that were, you know, in any kind of relationship. But, um, yeah, they did that.

• 1:22:31Joe Rogan?

  And have this crazy story.

• 1:22:32Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:22:32Joe Rogan?

  And you hear their hypnotic...

• 1:22:33Speaker 00

  And actually, on top of that, I have a connection to that. Because Barry said they're from the Zeta Reticuli star system. And I believe it's Betty, Betty Hill drew a map of the Zeta Reticuli star system and said this is part of their roots.

• 1:22:53Joe Rogan?

  Whoa.

• 1:22:54Speaker 00

  But you didn't know that?

• 1:22:55Joe Rogan?

  I don't remember that.

• 1:22:56Speaker 00

  Okay, if you look that up.

• 1:22:58Joe Rogan?

  I remember it from what you said from your story.

• 1:23:00Speaker 00

  Okay, but if you look up in Betty and Barney Hill, she said, I think, I don't know if I can ever get this stuff right. They show her a map and they say, well, this is a map. She wanted to know why they were here, what's going on. They showed her a map, am I right?

• 1:23:17Speaker 03

  Yeah, they showed her a map.

• 1:23:18Speaker 00

  And they said, do you understand this? And she said, no. And they said, well, why should we tell you anymore? And, well, I don't know, maybe you could fill it in.

• 1:23:28Speaker 03

  It's something like that, but they showed her this star map, you know? And she obviously...

• 1:23:34Speaker 00

  There it is. Look at that!

• 1:23:35Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:23:36Joe Rogan?

  Under hypnosis, Betty Hill describes a map she was shown by the leader aboard the ship. Later, she sketched it. She said she was told that the heavy lines marked regular trade routes.

• 1:23:44Speaker 03

  That's right, yeah.

• 1:23:45Joe Rogan?

  And the broken lines recorded various space expeditions. The following year, the map seen at right was published in the New York Times. Mrs. Hill, struck by the similarity between the Times' map and her sketch, then added the corresponding names. Yeah.

• 1:24:00Speaker 03

  And it ended up being the Zeta Reticuli binary star system, which was really interesting. And I remember when I first heard about Bob's story back in 1989, and he said, "Zeta Reticuli", I remember thinking, wow, that's what Betty Hill saw. So that made me also question, is that real in that document? Did these guys really come from there? You know, because it was mentioned in 1968.

• 1:24:28Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:24:28Speaker 03

  So why would the government, the US Navy, write that in there that would correlate to something that we already kind of knew? I think that was a purposeful disinformation to disinform someone. I think so.

• 1:24:44Joe Rogan?

  Well, why? Maybe it's true. Yeah, go ahead. We'll pause right here and use the restroom. We'll be right back, folks.

• 1:24:50Speaker 03

  I really got to be...

• 1:24:51Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:24:52Joe Rogan?

  No worries, no worries. We'll be right back. We were talking about this whole Zeta Reticuli thing. So...

• 1:25:01Joe Rogan?

  When you're dealing with so many different crafts and so many different things, the idea that only one species or one thing more advanced than us is visiting us seems kinda silly. If the universe is populated by all these things.

• 1:25:17Speaker 00

  I don't know, does it?

• 1:25:20Speaker 00

  Does it?

• 1:25:21Joe Rogan?

  Kind of, kind of.

• 1:25:22Speaker 00

  I mean, the universe is really big. I do, you think everybody can find this place?

• 1:25:27Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I would imagine it's like spots that you visit. Like, you know, there's Machu Picchu, there's ancient Egypt, there's, you know, Sub-Saharan Africa. It's a bunch of different places where people go, you know, just humans on Earth. And I would imagine if you have an understanding of how life is evolving in the cosmos, there's probably stages where things reach certain levels. And if you are a-

• 1:25:55Speaker 00

  But they're far apart.

• 1:25:56Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:25:57Speaker 00

  They're far apart. I mean, one could be in this quadrant of the Milky Way galaxy, and they reach that point where they can travel and explore. And there's a far distant point where another civilization can do that. And, I mean, really, do you think there are that many? I don't think there are that many civilizations visiting us. There's certainly, there's no doubt that there's one from somewhere, another planet, another time, another dimension, whatever it may be. Someone else is here. We're not the top, you know, of the pyramid.

• 1:26:36Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 1:26:37Speaker 00

  We're absolutely not there. There's no question.

• 1:26:40Joe Rogan?

  Well, I think if you got technology that, say, let's just say the grays. Let's say the grays are real, let's say they fly around these little crafts. Why would we assume that it stops there? Why wouldn't we assume that technology gets to the point where not only are they far more advanced than them, but they also are completely undetectable?

• 1:26:59Speaker 00

  Well, if you wanna view the universe as infinite,

• 1:27:02Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:02Speaker 00

  then it, then it never stops.

• 1:27:04Joe Rogan?

  It scales out.

• 1:27:04Speaker 00

  There's somebody above them, and there's somebody above them, and there's somebody above them, and it never stops.

• 1:27:09Joe Rogan?

  I was watching this lecture where this woman was talking about quantum entanglement. And she was talking about how maybe our understanding of space and the distance between things is limited by what our current-

• 1:27:25Joe Rogan?

  Technology is and our current understanding of what what space and time actually are.

• 1:27:31Speaker 00

  Absolutely.

• 1:27:32Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. What she was saying is there might not be that we might at one point in time, given enough time, thousands of years, whatever, be able to instantaneously travel anywhere. And that just how like quantum like like like subatomic particles are connected in some sort of a strange way that we don't totally understand, even at far distant spooky action at a distance. Right?

• 1:27:54Speaker 00

  As Einstein said, yeah.

• 1:27:56Joe Rogan?

  Right, that we might eventually get to a point where that's how travel works. It's instantaneous travel everywhere.

• 1:28:02Speaker 00

  I think we just have hints of these technologies.

• 1:28:04Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:05Speaker 00

  Look, everything, you know, we look at Maxwell's equations and things like that, that we base all electromagnetic, electrostatic, you know, actions on and how they relate to time and how they relate to things in our universe, but that may be nothing. There there may be an entire level of physics that we're unfamiliar with that, you know, these crafts, these people or these civilizations just utilize. So.

• 1:28:43Joe Rogan?

  Of course. I mean, if you just stop and think about going from Morse code to a cellphone in a relatively short period of time historically, you go to the difference between 1200 and 1400 is not that big of a fucking deal in terms of technology, what's available. The difference between 1800 and 2026 is fucking massive.

• 1:29:07Speaker 00

  Yeah, right.

• 1:29:07Joe Rogan?

  It is a massive crazy change, right? So 2026 to 2226, who fucking knows what we're talking about?

• 1:29:18Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:29:18Joe Rogan?

  Especially when you have sentient AI, you have nuclear power plants that are controlling sentient AI that are fueling them and giving them resources. I mean. You really have no limit to where this goes. You scale out a thousand years. You scale out two thousand years.

• 1:29:37Speaker 00

  You really can't scale out a thousand years.

• 1:29:39Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:29:40Speaker 00

  Because even at, even at a hundred years, it's way.

• 1:29:44Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:45Speaker 00

  Way more than we would have ever considered.

• 1:29:47Joe Rogan?

  Also, it's exponential, right?

• 1:29:49Speaker 00

  Right. That's, that's why. You can't scale out to a thousand years.

• 1:29:52Joe Rogan?

  And if you think it's exponential now, imagine when you have AI able to generate better versions of itself, which is what's happening with ChatGPT five. It's essentially made by ChatGPT four.

• 1:30:03Speaker 00

  Now, AI is absolutely the death of us. There's, there's no, there's no question.

• 1:30:10Joe Rogan?

  Well, we're certainly going to become obsolete in terms of our thinking, but.

• 1:30:14Speaker 00

  If we're obsolete in terms of our thinking, we're obsolete.

• 1:30:17Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:18Speaker 00

  I mean, all, all AI needs is hands, right?

• 1:30:22Joe Rogan?

  I think we integrate. That's what I think happens.

• 1:30:26Speaker 00

  Yeah. It's a scary.

• 1:30:28Speaker 03

  And, and that's, yeah, I was gonna say, and that's a scary thought. That's a scary thought because it's like, we're gonna integrate. I think it's inevitable. I think you're right about that. We're just going there. It's, it's not like, even if you and I are not gonna actually do it, somebody will, and it's gonna integrate because other people will, and it's gonna happen. But it's still the same primate. We're still the same human.

• 1:30:47Joe Rogan?

  Sort of, but we, we already have problems with joints, and so we replace them with fake ones. We, you know, titanium knees and, you know.

• 1:30:56Speaker 00

  Yeah, but they don't work as good.

• 1:30:57Joe Rogan?

  They don't for now.

• 1:30:59Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:30:59Joe Rogan?

  But before, they used to not work at all. Like, you know, I've, I've met people that had surgeries in the 1980s, like knee surgeries, and oh my god. They're crippled for life. Even though they put your knee back together again, it's still destroyed.

• 1:31:13Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:31:14Joe Rogan?

  You know, you get a knee surgery today, six months later, you're a hundred percent.

• 1:31:17Speaker 00

  No, I'd, I'd love to know the future.

• 1:31:19Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, well, it's gonna get.

• 1:31:20Speaker 00

  I'd love to know the future.

• 1:31:21Joe Rogan?

  Well, that is, so, one of the things I wanna talk about is the, the actual, the generator, this thing that works on this element that bombards with radiation. How did you guys figure out what the function of it was and what it did? So when you're first introduced to this craft, and you see this, this dome.

• 1:31:46Speaker 00

  The reactor.

• 1:31:47Joe Rogan?

  The reactor that's covering this, this thing that's generating this power. What, what was, what was the introduction to it? How'd they explain it to you?

• 1:31:56Speaker 00

  The introduction was, was way before me.

• 1:32:01Speaker 00

  And that's where the guy, prior to me, either got hurt or killed. So they determined that this was the power source. And at some point, they decided to take that out to the nuclear test site because they wanted to cut into it. They x-rayed it, they only found a small tube that went around it. They really couldn't determine how it worked or what was going on. So at some point, and Barry made this somewhat clear, that they cut into the reactor while

• 1:32:46Speaker 00

  it was running, or while it was under load, I should say, and the reactor exploded. That's what killed or hurt the person that I replaced. But it produced the base gravitational wave or base energy that provided, that propelled the craft, that provided the craft the propulsion. I mean, when they removed it, the craft didn't work. When they put it in, every single other craft they found had something either exactly like it or similar to it. So they determined that was the power source.

• 1:33:29Speaker 00

  That's at the point that I was introduced into the project.

• 1:33:32Joe Rogan?

  So when you say gravitational wave, is that for lack of a better term? Or is it something that's measured?

• 1:33:38Speaker 00

  No, it's for lack of a better term. Like, there's nothing, I mean, as I said in Luigi's movie, you can take magnets with like poles and push them together and they repel. But you can't take your hands, ever, and push on something and they repel them. That's a force field, right? That's science fiction stuff. But that's what this did. And this produced a field that repelled the craft from the ground.

• 1:34:05Joe Rogan?

  Did you try to touch it?

• 1:34:06Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:34:07Joe Rogan?

  And when did you try to touch it? What did you feel?

• 1:34:11Speaker 00

  An elastic field. You can push down, but you can't get close to it. The closer you get to it, the more it pushes back.

• 1:34:20Joe Rogan?

  Like, how much distance between you and the actual thing?

• 1:34:23Speaker 00

  I mean, I would say about...

• 1:34:26Joe Rogan?

  Six inches or so?

• 1:34:27Speaker 00

  Uh, uh, maybe about nine inches, which is about a span. And, um, no, it's, at some point, you can't push back on it at all. But the important thing is if you have a magnet, a little disc magnet sitting on the ground, and you have another magnet, and you push on it, that magnet moves away, right?

• 1:34:55Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:56Speaker 00

  Because it's pushing on it. But the craft didn't. The reactor didn't. If you had the craft, the reactor there and you pushed back on it, it didn't push away when you pushed on it.

• 1:35:09Joe Rogan?

  It just prevented you from touching it.

• 1:35:11Speaker 00

  Yeah, and so when Dennis said, "Go out there and look under the craft", um, here's the craft,

• 1:35:20Speaker 00

  whatever it weighs, suspending itself above the ground, and I went underneath it. You would think it's translating its weight onto the ground and pushing, and I should be...

• 1:35:31Joe Rogan?

  Squashed.

• 1:35:32Speaker 00

  Squashed, without any doubt, but I'm not. There's no feeling there at all. So it's not translating its weight or its push to the ground and pushing off the ground. It's just cancelling out its weight, which is something completely different.

• 1:35:50Joe Rogan?

  Hmm. And so when, so element 115. So you have it in this triangle shaped form. Did you ask how they got it into a triangle shaped form? Was it made like this? This is how it came?

• 1:36:07Speaker 00

  I'm sure I did, but I mean, it only worked like that. It worked like a stack of disks and had to be cut at a certain angle to work in the reactor.

• 1:36:18Joe Rogan?

  And did they say they cut it? Or did they say it was already cut?

• 1:36:22Speaker 00

  Well, it was already cut and they were duplicating it.

• 1:36:25Joe Rogan?

  Pull that microphone up too. So they were duplicating it. Did they have more of it? This element?

• 1:36:31Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, they had quite a bit of it. So either there was a quantity in other crafts or other reactors that they removed. Yeah.

• 1:36:42Joe Rogan?

  But was there any discussion that there had been some sort of an exchange where they had been giving this?

• 1:36:47Speaker 00

  No.

• 1:36:48Joe Rogan?

  So one of the things like, do you know Diana Pasolques? She's an author that's written some interesting stuff about UFOs and she's worked with Gary Nolan. And you know, on material recollection from supposed crash sites. And she said that the way these researchers refer to these crafts, they refer to them as donations.

• 1:37:13Speaker 00

  I guess that's possible.

• 1:37:14Joe Rogan?

  Right. Well, doesn't it make sense if this thing crashed? Why is it perfect? Why is it not destroyed?

• 1:37:21Speaker 00

  Look, I've heard so many, I'm not into UFOs.

• 1:37:25Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:37:26Speaker 00

  As crazy as that. Yeah, that's crazy. I'm just interested in the technology and I feel very privileged to have been involved in the project. But I don't know. I don't, I don't think, I don't think there can be that many crashes, do you?

• 1:37:46Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 1:37:46Speaker 00

  This advanced technology, you think they're coming to earth and just, there's a thunderstorm and they're crashing into the ground? I'm not, I'm not buying that.

• 1:37:54Joe Rogan?

  There's one logical explanation that does actually make sense. There were some high altitude nuclear tests that they did.

• 1:38:04Speaker 00

  Well, there was the fatigue test, you know, back in the 60s.

• 1:38:08Joe Rogan?

  Starfish Prime.

• 1:38:08Speaker 00

  And Starfish Prime, right.

• 1:38:10Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. If you had no idea that this was about to happen and you were hovering over earth observing us.

• 1:38:16Speaker 00

  What are the chances? I mean, what are the chances?

• 1:38:19Joe Rogan?

  They're not very high.

• 1:38:20Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:38:21Joe Rogan?

  Right?

• 1:38:21Speaker 00

  They're not very, I mean, what are the chances of Crass is coming over and a nuclear test at that exact second?

• 1:38:27Joe Rogan?

  Unless there's a lot more observation than we know. And that they just observe us in a way that we can't see them. Especially if you're going back to the 1950s and 1960s. We have very few satellites, whereas very.

• 1:38:44Speaker 00

  That was the nuclear cowboy era.

• 1:38:46Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:38:46Speaker 00

  Where there were just.

• 1:38:47Joe Rogan?

  Well, just.

• 1:38:48Speaker 00

  Who?

• 1:38:48Joe Rogan?

  Starfish Prime, explain to people what they did.

• 1:38:51Speaker 00

  Yeah. I did, they had a 1.4 megaton, you know, detonation up there and just, I think all they did, let's see what happens if we blow it up at this altitude.

• 1:39:02Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:39:02Speaker 00

  I mean, that's crazy. You know, there was another test planned to blow up on the moon, just to make the Russians look, you know, like, like we were awesome.

• 1:39:19Speaker 00

  But they.

• 1:39:19Joe Rogan?

  Detonate the moon. What if they pushed it away and fucked up our orbit?

• 1:39:23Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think that would take a lot more.

• 1:39:25Joe Rogan?

  I know.

• 1:39:26Speaker 00

  I mean, there was, I don't remember what the, the project.

• 1:39:32Joe Rogan?

  Project A19.

• 1:39:33Speaker 00

  Oh, A19, that was it, yeah.

• 1:39:35Joe Rogan?

  Study of lunar research flights.

• 1:39:37Speaker 00

  Detonator nuclear bomb, yeah. I can't pull up these numbers, but yeah, A, Project A111.

• 1:39:44Joe Rogan?

  Crazy.

• 1:39:45Speaker 00

  Yeah, we're gonna do that. Because that, like, everybody on Earth could just go outside and lick up the moon, get blown up.

• 1:39:52Joe Rogan?

  And the explosion would be faintly visible to the human eye, to people on Earth.

• 1:39:57Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:39:58Joe Rogan?

  Boy.

• 1:39:58Speaker 00

  I still think they should have done that, but.

• 1:40:02Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but you're the guy that put a jet engine in the back of a Honda, like, let's see.

• 1:40:07Speaker 00

  I honestly think they should detonate a nuclear bomb on the 4th of July every year. But that's just me.

• 1:40:13Joe Rogan?

  Well, also, you live in Nevada. It's more used to at least, it had a long history of them doing that.

• 1:40:21Joe Rogan?

  So, going back to this reactor, so.

• 1:40:26Joe Rogan?

  Did, how was it explained to you? Did they explain to you how the technology works? Or what they know about it? Like?

• 1:40:35Speaker 00

  Now, the way it was explained to me is, is when I got to be alone with Barry, he said, he was excited to show this to me. He said, "I'm gonna turn, this is the reactor that we assume powers the craft." Sorry.

• 1:40:49Joe Rogan?

  No worries.

• 1:40:50Speaker 00

  I'm, uh, I'm gonna show you the reactor that powers the craft." And he turned it on. Small little dome on a flat little plate. I said-

• 1:41:01Joe Rogan?

  Was this in the craft? Or was this on a table?

• 1:41:04Speaker 00

  No, no. This is in the experimental area.

• 1:41:06Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 1:41:06Speaker 00

  And, um-

• 1:41:07Joe Rogan?

  So this was not the one that was in the support craft? This was another one?

• 1:41:10Speaker 00

  This was another one.

• 1:41:11Joe Rogan?

  This is it, right here?

• 1:41:12Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's it.

• 1:41:13Joe Rogan?

  Okay, that's in the film?

• 1:41:14Speaker 00

  And, yeah, on, on the table. And he had it there. And he went over to the emitter and rotated it. And he said, "Try and touch it." And I put my hand on it. And it rebounded off. And I, the closer you got to it, the more it pushed back. And, um, that's, that's a real shock. Because there's nothing that pushes back like that. That, that's a, that's a living force field. That's science fiction stuff. So, um, that really got my attention.

• 1:41:45Joe Rogan?

  So, explain what is happening? Like, in terms of the, the rotation of this thing? Like, what, what is happening? Like, what energy is going into it that's causing it to go on?

• 1:41:56Speaker 00

  Well, actually, we don't know that. I mean, that, that's the whole thing. It's, it's pushing back. It's a, it's a repulsive gravitational field. Like, as far as we know, gravitate, gravity only has an attractive force to it. We've never, even with any matter, we've analyzed it. And it still has an attractive force to it. There's no repulsive force that we've discovered. Because that would be a great propulsion system. But this repulsed. So, this was a, a new field completely.

• 1:42:33Joe Rogan?

  But how was he turning it on?

• 1:42:35Speaker 00

  He had the emitter, which is a big pipe. Part of-

• 1:42:39Joe Rogan?

  What is an emitter? Like, what is-

• 1:42:43Speaker 00

  The craft itself has, on the main level, has the reactor and what we call the amplifiers. Three, the reactor and three amplifiers. Right underneath that, there are three emitters that are right under the amplifiers. And we believe the energy from the reactor is amplified by the emitters and...

• 1:43:09Joe Rogan?

  By the amplifiers.

• 1:43:10Speaker 00

  By the amplifiers, sorry. And transmitted to the emitters. And they produce this field that lifts the craft off the ground. And that's how it works. But there is nothing, nothing even in our physics or our science that correlates to that at all.

• 1:43:29Joe Rogan?

  And what is the energy that's going to them that causes it to turn on?

• 1:43:33Speaker 00

  We don't know. I mean, we just assume it's gravity because it's the only thing we know like that. But it has a negative gravity effect. So it might be a new force entirely.

• 1:43:47Joe Rogan?

  But you're saying, so you have this machine that's next to it that you do something to that causes it to turn on?

• 1:43:54Speaker 00

  The emitter. There, there's the amplifier and there's the emitter, which looks like a big pipe.

• 1:44:00Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:44:00Speaker 00

  And if you rotate the emitter, I don't remember how many degrees, was it 20 degrees? 20 degrees. 20 degrees or something like that. That connects it in some way to the reactor and it begins to be powered.

• 1:44:16Joe Rogan?

  And what is the emitter doing?

• 1:44:20Speaker 00

  It emits that field. It's not a gravita, it could be a gravitational field, but it's an anti-gravitational field that pushes on the ground.

• 1:44:29Joe Rogan?

  And what's happening in the emitter? Did you study the emitter?

• 1:44:32Speaker 00

  Well, we attempted to, but no. There was nothing that we really came up with.

• 1:44:38Joe Rogan?

  What does it look like? Like, what's the internal structure of it?

• 1:44:41Speaker 00

  It's just, it's a hollow pipe with, I guess, little copper-colored plates all inside. It's kind of in the, in the film.

• 1:44:56Speaker 00

  But there's, I mean, these guys have been working on it for years before I got there. And there was really no, no concept of what they were doing.

• 1:45:07Joe Rogan?

  Did they explain to you why element 115 is crucial to this working?

• 1:45:12Speaker 00

  No.

• 1:45:13Joe Rogan?

  What its role is?

• 1:45:14Speaker 00

  No.

• 1:45:16Joe Rogan?

  So element 115 was not even really discussed back when you were doing this. It wasn't even discovered or proven physically until there was a Large Hadron Collider experiment in the 2000s, right?

• 1:45:33Speaker 00

  No, I know they synthesized that. But look, and you know, in any element, there is always, there's always a large amount of...

• 1:45:48Speaker 03

  Well, it doesn't decay.

• 1:45:49Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:45:51Joe Rogan?

  That was the thing about, in the Large Hadron Collider experiment, they were able to achieve it, but it only existed for a few milliseconds.

• 1:45:59Speaker 00

  Yeah, sorry, I've had too much.

• 1:46:02Joe Rogan?

  No worries.

• 1:46:05Joe Rogan?

  So, did they, how did they define this material?

• 1:46:11Speaker 00

  No, there's, I mean, there's different isotopes of every element. And element 115, just like any other element, there can be a stable version of it and 100 or 50 different unstable elements to them. So...

• 1:46:34Speaker 00

  I'm sorry.

• 1:46:35Joe Rogan?

  No, no, just trying to continue the train of thought. So...

• 1:46:39Speaker 03

  It's basically different isotopes of it.

• 1:46:42Speaker 00

  Yeah, different isotopes. I've, I need to stop drinking this.

• 1:46:47Joe Rogan?

  It's okay, have a cup of coffee.

• 1:46:48Speaker 00

  I can't even remember.

• 1:46:50Speaker 03

  Yeah, coffee's good.

• 1:46:51Speaker 00

  Oh, we got coffee. Oh, my God. All right. Holy cow.

• 1:46:57Joe Rogan?

  There you go, that'll help.

• 1:46:59Speaker 00

  Yeah, there's, I mean, there's different isotopes.

• 1:47:02Joe Rogan?

  And you were able to physically touch this element with...

• 1:47:04Speaker 00

  Oh, absolutely.

• 1:47:09Speaker 00

  Physically able to touch the element, yeah.

• 1:47:10Joe Rogan?

  But when you're physically able to touch it, there's no adverse effects? It doesn't have any effect on the...

• 1:47:15Speaker 00

  No.

• 1:47:15Joe Rogan?

  Does it feel like metal? Does it feel like plastic?

• 1:47:17Speaker 00

  No, it looks, it looks copper-like. I mean, maybe it's not as dark as copper is, but it's that color. And I haven't seen an element like that. It has unique properties that other elements don't have. It produces an anti-gravitational field.

• 1:47:40Joe Rogan?

  When combined with energy? With some kind of energy, it produces this field?

• 1:47:45Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:47:46Joe Rogan?

  And was it understood what is happening? Like, what is the relationship between this element and this? Like, how is, what is going on? Like, you're bombarding this element with something?

• 1:47:58Speaker 00

  Yeah, I, from what we understood, we X-rayed the reactor itself, and there was a path around it that looked, it made it look like a cyclotron. So, it looked like there was an accelerator.

• 1:48:16Joe Rogan?

  So, when they were explaining it to you, is this just your work partner that's explaining this stuff to you?

• 1:48:24Speaker 00

  Yes, it's just Barry that's explaining it.

• 1:48:26Joe Rogan?

  And did you ask him, "How do you know this? Where are you getting this from?" Is this...

• 1:48:30Speaker 00

  Yeah, he got this information prior to me.

• 1:48:35Speaker 00

  And they X-rayed it, found a structure in there to where they believed it was an accelerator, and it was interacting, the point of the 115 is in a little triangular piece.

• 1:48:52Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:48:53Speaker 00

  And it was interacting with that in some fashion, so...

• 1:48:59Joe Rogan?

  And did he say whether or not the United States government or whoever was doing this research had tried to recreate one of those on their own?

• 1:49:08Speaker 00

  That, that was our job, to try to recreate one of those on their own.

• 1:49:12Joe Rogan?

  But what was the metal that it was made out of?

• 1:49:15Speaker 00

  We don't know.

• 1:49:16Joe Rogan?

  We don't know.

• 1:49:16Speaker 00

  Again, the metallurgy was not, that was not...

• 1:49:21Joe Rogan?

  It seems insane that you couldn't communicate to them that whatever this stuff is made out of, this whole thing acts as one cohesive unit. It's not like you could make the same exact thing with aluminum or carbon fiber.

• 1:49:34Speaker 00

  No, you can't. This thing acted differently. This thing acted differently than any material that we knew. And, I mean, I think all the answers are in the metallurgy guys. You know, that's, that's who knew what was going on, who was able to provide the answers. But, um, as far as we knew, if we didn't have the connection with those other groups, we weren't really gonna make any progress.

• 1:50:01Joe Rogan?

  You were speculating that there was a type of metallic alloy that would work better with this concept. Was it Byzantine?

• 1:50:15Speaker 00

  Bismuth?

• 1:50:16Joe Rogan?

  Bismuth, yes.

• 1:50:18Speaker 00

  Did I say that?

• 1:50:19Speaker 04

  I don't think so.

• 1:50:20Joe Rogan?

  No?

• 1:50:20Speaker 00

  No, I don't think so.

• 1:50:22Joe Rogan?

  Someone, someone that I talked to was explaining to me.

• 1:50:24Speaker 00

  It's related to on the periodic table. I mean, bismuth is above it and 115 is below it. But, um, we never did see any correlation between bismuth. This was a completely new material.

• 1:50:36Joe Rogan?

  Well, I think, oh, that's what it was. Oh, this is what it was. So, one of the pieces that Gary Nolan had found that was, uh, Gary Nolan is the guy at Stanford that has examined these pieces that are from supposedly crashed sites, crash sites where something had gone down and scattered. Some of these pieces, they're atomically layered and it's

• 1:51:01Speaker 00

  I've heard that.

• 1:51:02Joe Rogan?

  magnesium and bismuth seem to be prevalent.

• 1:51:05Speaker 00

  Bismuth is the thing.

• 1:51:06Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:51:07Speaker 00

  Bismuth is the thing. It's right above 115 on the periodic chart. And there's, yeah, there's something about that. There's something about 115.

• 1:51:15Speaker 04

  Yeah. Weird magnetism stuff with bismuth. There's a video from the Action Lab, "The Strange Magnetism of Bismuth."

• 1:51:22Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's diamagnetic, yeah.

• 1:51:26Joe Rogan?

  So let him play it out a little bit.

• 1:51:27Speaker 03

  No, I'm trying to find those.

• 1:51:30Speaker 00

  What is diamagnetic?

• 1:51:31Speaker 03

  Diamagnetic is it opposes magnetic fields.

• 1:51:34Speaker 00

  I see.

• 1:51:35Joe Rogan?

  So it kind of makes sense if they're finding these pieces that are, the way he was explaining.

• 1:51:42Speaker 00

  That's business, yeah.

• 1:51:44Joe Rogan?

  The way he's explaining this, whatever this alloy was, this very small piece that was found, I believe in, prior to the 1970s, I don't remember the exact date that he's had, from one of these crashed, one of them was from Brazil that they had recovered. And someone had gotten possession of it in the 1990s, and someone had gotten it eventually to Gary Nolan. He said that to create this on earth, first of all, it can't be done with current technology. We don't have the ability to do this.

• 1:52:10Speaker 00

  The layering technology?

• 1:52:11Joe Rogan?

  Yes, and that it would cost billions of dollars, just theoretically, to make this. And it doesn't exist.

• 1:52:19Speaker 00

  I remember seeing this, yeah.

• 1:52:20Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, this is it. Alleged extraterrestrial metal, the bottom of a wedge-shaped craft in 1940s. Twenty-six alternating layers, one to four microns dark bismuth, with a hundred to two hundred microns of silver/magnesium/zinc alloy. Each piece received from the US Army source were formed with a curvature that tapered.

• 1:52:40Speaker 00

  Oh, in the 40s, yeah.

• 1:52:43Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:52:44Speaker 00

  Good luck making that in the 40s.

• 1:52:46Speaker 03

  Well, I mean, it says a wedge-shaped craft in late 1940s, that's Roswell. I mean, that's Roswell.

• 1:52:52Speaker 00

  Well, I mean, what, what does it do? I would like to see the test results, or just the material. We can make that now.

• 1:53:01Speaker 03

  We can?

• 1:53:02Speaker 00

  Yeah. One to four microns of bismuth, 200 microns of silver, yeah.

• 1:53:08Joe Rogan?

  The thing is, like, making something like that in the 1940s is absolutely impossible.

• 1:53:14Speaker 00

  No, in the 40s, forget it.

• 1:53:15Joe Rogan?

  It's impossible.

• 1:53:16Speaker 00

  But I mean, now we could fabricate something like that.

• 1:53:18Joe Rogan?

  And it would cost a shitload of money. So like, the idea that you would make something like that and just scatter it around and go, look.

• 1:53:24Speaker 00

  But what, but what does it do?

• 1:53:25Joe Rogan?

  Right, what does it do? Why? Why is magnesium and bismuth, why in that particular array?

• 1:53:31Speaker 00

  There is something about bismuth. There is something about bismuth. But that's, that's why it's so fascinating. I would, I would love to know where they, like, it's been 40 years. I would love to know.

• 1:53:42Joe Rogan?

  Where they're at now.

• 1:53:43Speaker 00

  Yeah, where they're at now, if they continued.

• 1:53:44Joe Rogan?

  Well, they had to have continued. I can't, I can't imagine you go, eh, we're done.

• 1:53:49Speaker 00

  No, I mean, they may have moved it. I mean, like I, like I said before, I mean, they were anxious to move it out of there at that time, but...

• 1:53:56Joe Rogan?

  Are you aware of the labyrinth in Egypt that they discovered?

• 1:54:05Joe Rogan?

  So, there's this thing-

• 1:54:05Speaker 00

  Are you talking about the-

• 1:54:07Speaker 03

  The columns?

• 1:54:08Speaker 00

  Columns or whatever?

• 1:54:08Joe Rogan?

  No, no, no, this is unrelated. This is something different. So, Herodotus discussed this. Now, my friend Ben Van Kirkwick, he has Uncharted X on YouTube. It's an amazing channel where he was a tech guy who just got absolutely fascinated by all these stories of ancient history and really got obsessed with Egypt and Peru and, and left his field and started making these incredible videos. But he's highly intelligent, incredibly articulate, and so these videos are just absolutely fantastic. And really, he's, he's very well-versed scientifically, so he can understand these things and explain them to you.

• 1:54:50Joe Rogan?

  Like, they're examining like the construction of the pyramids and the whatever technology was used to carve the stones. And there's just so much of it that is like confusing because it's, it clearly is like a very high level of sophistication in technology that's involved in creating these things. Well, Herodotus described these labyrinths that were underground in Giza, not, not in Giza, but Hawara? Is that where it was? Jamie will find it. But this, these, the way Herodotus described it, he said they were far superior and more impressive than the, the, the pyramids of Giza. Underground.

• 1:55:31Joe Rogan?

  Well, these massive labyrinths that exist underground were all flooded in the 1960s accidentally when they created dams in order to provide irrigation to agriculture that was in the area. So they changed the water table, fucked it up. This whole area got flooded.

• 1:55:49Speaker 03

  Did they know they were there when they accidentally-

• 1:55:51Joe Rogan?

  No, they didn't because a lot of this stuff, like this is from thousands and thousands of years ago. A lot of it was covered over with sand and, you know, there, there had been some explorers a long time ago that went there and saw some of what was in there. But the way Herodotus described it, it's just absolutely fantastic. So then they started using ground penetrating radar. And they started using these various technologies that could detect what was under the surface. And one of the things that they found was there's a massive atrium. And inside this atrium.

• 1:56:21Speaker 00

  You mentioned this to me.

• 1:56:22Joe Rogan?

  Yes. There is a forty meter long metallic object that is inside this atrium. Forty meters of some unknown metal.

• 1:56:31Speaker 00

  How deep is it?

• 1:56:34Joe Rogan?

  I believe it's a hundred meters into the ground.

• 1:56:36Speaker 00

  So you're telling me a ground penetrating radar can get to a hundred meters underground?

• 1:56:41Joe Rogan?

  The stuff that the Filippo Bondi has used from satellites.

• 1:56:45Speaker 00

  The one that we were talking about.

• 1:56:46Joe Rogan?

  Gets more than a kilometer into the ground.

• 1:56:50Speaker 00

  With decent resolution?

• 1:56:52Joe Rogan?

  Well.

• 1:56:52Speaker 00

  No.

• 1:56:53Joe Rogan?

  Not decent resolution, but enough that you could see symmetry. Enough that they can also detect things that are well-known.

• 1:56:59Speaker 00

  A hundred meters is a...

• 1:57:00Joe Rogan?

  Chambers. Well, listen to this. They got, they detected accurately a particle collider in Italy that is inside of a mountain, one point two kilometers below the mountain. It sees through the mountain and can detect this thing in the exact diameter, the exact dimensions that this thing exists. So they can show you.

• 1:57:23Speaker 00

  And they...

• 1:57:24Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 1:57:25Speaker 00

  A particle collider?

• 1:57:26Joe Rogan?

  Yes. So this is a particle collider that they know exists. Right? So this is an actual particle collider.

• 1:57:31Speaker 00

  So they're looking for it, that the proof...

• 1:57:33Joe Rogan?

  Right. So they just, it's just proof that this technology is not just...

• 1:57:36Speaker 00

  Well, wait. I mean, hang on. I mean, how do they know it's a particle collider?

• 1:57:40Joe Rogan?

  No, no. Well, no, the particle collider exists. This is a, the Italians have this particle collider. It, it, it's known. They made it. It's like, it's original.

• 1:57:49Speaker 00

  They just used that.

• 1:57:50Joe Rogan?

  So they use... Right. No, it's not like we found a particle collider, it didn't exist.

• 1:57:54Speaker 00

  Okay, that's what I thought you were saying.

• 1:57:55Joe Rogan?

  No, no, no, no, no. So this particle collider, they use this technology to show that you can see straight through this mountain to this particle collider that's underneath the mountain. So they know the exact dimensions of this particle collider. You can see, you can almost draw a schematic of it. Well, through this technology, they've also found these columns that are below the pyramids. These columns are twenty-two meters, twenty-plus meters in diameter. And they have something that resembles coils around all of them. And they're positioned at various points all around where the structure is. It goes all the way down into hundreds of meters down, and then it goes to another structure.

• 1:58:37Joe Rogan?

  And the whole complex of it, these structures, goes to over a kilometer into the ground.

• 1:58:42Speaker 00

  But how can you see a kilometer underground?

• 1:58:45Joe Rogan?

  Well, you would have to understand this technology. Was it called radiotomography? He explained it to me.

• 1:58:51Speaker 00

  It's synthetic aperture radar, right?

• 1:58:53Joe Rogan?

  Yes. Well, whatever this techno-

• 1:58:55Speaker 00

  And seeing a kilometer underground at decent resolution?

• 1:58:58Joe Rogan?

  It's not decent resolution, but it's enough to understand the scope of what it is. It's enough to understand where spaces are and where-

• 1:59:05Speaker 00

  Like everybody knows about this but me. I mean-

• 1:59:08Joe Rogan?

  It's pretty fascinating.

• 1:59:09Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:59:10Joe Rogan?

  I'll send you the podcast, and I'll send you some of his conferences where he was explaining this to rooms fills with scientists.

• 1:59:17Speaker 00

  You would think they'd be anxious to dig this up.

• 1:59:19Joe Rogan?

  They are. And there's, there's, there's actual, like, studies that are currently being discussed. Well, they already know that there's these channels that go in the ground that have since been covered with silt and sand, because you know the sand's constantly moving. But these things go hundreds of meters down, these shafts that go down.

• 1:59:38Speaker 00

  Look, if they find hundreds, if they find shafts hundreds of meters down with coils around them, look, that's advanced technology.

• 1:59:46Joe Rogan?

  Exactly.

• 1:59:46Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:59:47Joe Rogan?

  This is the point.

• 1:59:47Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:59:48Joe Rogan?

  This is the point. Whatever this thing is that they have in an atrium, like, if they said that they got that craft from an archaeological dig,

• 1:59:57Joe Rogan?

  I mean, what- Maybe the Egyptians had found something similar to this thousands and thousands and thousands of years ago.

• 2:00:04Speaker 03

  Yeah, I believe that's possible.

• 2:00:06Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, well.

• 2:00:08Speaker 03

  The object that you're, I didn't, I actually got to speak to Filippo Biondi, by the way. He's in Italy, he's in Rome, we got to speak Italians, we got to talk, and we talked about that. I had no idea they found something with a metal object down there, though.

• 2:00:23Joe Rogan?

  This is not Filippo Biondi's work.

• 2:00:24Speaker 03

  Oh, pardon me, okay.

• 2:00:26Joe Rogan?

  This is some different scientists that are just studying the labyrinth. Jamie, pull up some, uh, some of the schematics of the labyrinth.

• 2:00:33Speaker 03

  So in the labyrinth, there's like a.

• 2:00:35Joe Rogan?

  There's a large atrium. You gotta pee again? Go ahead, go ahead.

• 2:00:38Speaker 03

  Sorry.

• 2:00:39Joe Rogan?

  Head up.

• 2:00:39Speaker 03

  Yeah. God, I feel like a fucking asshole.

• 2:00:41Joe Rogan?

  Don't worry about it. Get some air. Clear your head.

• 2:00:44Speaker 00

  I have a prostate.

• 2:00:45Joe Rogan?

  So in this, in this labyrinth, there's a large atrium.

• 2:00:49Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 2:00:50Joe Rogan?

  And in this large atrium, there is essentially a tic-tac.

• 2:00:54Speaker 03

  Really?

• 2:00:55Joe Rogan?

  A tic-tac shaped object that is forty meters long. That is of some unknown metal. They don't know what it is, they don't know how it works, but this is, this structure is all underground in Egypt.

• 2:01:10Speaker 03

  Which is wild, because, and how, how, it's a hundred meters?

• 2:01:14Joe Rogan?

  Well, look, we'll, we'll get a chance to look at it. This is a huara. So, so there it says the forty meter metallic object. See that, where it says huara rising?

• 2:01:23Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:01:24Joe Rogan?

  So if you click on that, it talks about the forty meter metallic object. Discovered in Egyptians.

• 2:01:29Speaker 03

  Hmm. Can't read a report.

• 2:01:32Joe Rogan?

  Subterranean labyrinth.

• 2:01:33Speaker 03

  It's just people talking about it.

• 2:01:35Joe Rogan?

  Right, got it. But, so whatever it is, play out some of the video, just so we could talk about it. So, th- this, this whole thing, if you see some of the images that they're discussing.

• 2:01:51Speaker 05

  And today we're.

• 2:01:53Speaker 06

  Tell me about the work that I, uh, Chicago.

• 2:01:56Speaker 03

  Huh.

• 2:01:56Speaker 06

  Uh, and the team that was in, uh, Poland as well. And at that point is when I had met the person Lucina Lobus, who later became my wife, six months later.

• 2:02:09Speaker 05

  So yeah, you, you actually um were working with the NRA AG and then the

• 2:02:15Speaker 03

  Yeah, I don't know what they're talking about.

• 2:02:16Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that is not gonna help us. But if you could just go to some of the images where they've sort of outlined

• 2:02:22Speaker 03

  I was trying to find it. There is not a very clear image of the metallic object that

• 2:02:26Joe Rogan?

  No, that's fine, but just the labyrinth itself, what they think the structure of it was.

• 2:02:30Speaker 03

  So I don't know where they got this from is also the other issue.

• 2:02:33Speaker 04

  Forty meter mystery metal object.

• 2:02:35Speaker 03

  It's a weird rendering that doesn't usually come out from

• 2:02:38Joe Rogan?

  Right, but there's some other drawings of like from the Herodotus days.

• 2:02:42Speaker 03

  Yeah, but I do.

• 2:02:43Joe Rogan?

  So this is what they think it looks like under the ground.

• 2:02:48Joe Rogan?

  Which is fucking completely bonkers. And if there is some forty meter metallic object that's under the ground, and we are talking about like this sport model being a part of an archaeological dig.

• 2:02:58Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:02:58Joe Rogan?

  They might have found something back then and worshipped that thing and had that thing as like, you know

• 2:03:04Speaker 03

  They turned it into this.

• 2:03:05Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:03:06Speaker 03

  As a pyramid, yeah. I, I, I think there's something to that.

• 2:03:11Joe Rogan?

  Well, you know, all these people that believe that there was a incredibly advanced civilization before some sort of apocalypse disaster that reset civilization and it took thousands of years. And what we are essentially is not the first advanced civilization, but a rebuild, a rebuild, thousands and thousands and thousands of years later. You know, that rings true with me.

• 2:03:36Speaker 03

  Me too.

• 2:03:37Joe Rogan?

  And as Graham Hancock always says, we're a species with amnesia. And I think that makes sense. And I think if you're dealing with people that were basically knocked back into the Stone Age eleven thousand, twelve thousand years ago, and it took us forever to rebuild to where we are now, I think we've gone down a completely different path than whatever the people that were able to build the pyramids of Egypt and all these fantastic megalithic structures. Where in, in, we don't understand what technology we used.

• 2:04:05Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:04:06Joe Rogan?

  And it doesn't, it literally doesn't make sense that they were able to do this.

• 2:04:09Speaker 03

  It's, it's even like when we see those big gigantic stones and they're not just piled together, they're like interlocked in weird shapes and all that. It's like, how do we, how did that happen? I mean, that, you know, those are things that, yeah, I agree with you.

• 2:04:19Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, archaeologists are very reluctant to admit it, but there's tremendous evidence that not only were these people far more advanced than we think people should have been back then, but they're probably more advanced than we are now with some Different kind of technology. And maybe, again, it's like advanced, but in a different way. Right. Right? Yes. Otherwise. Different pathway. Yeah. They didn't go. Our way. Yeah, they didn't go internal combustion engine and electronics. Because we would see something. Exactly. Right. But might not, if you're thinking about a hundred thousand years ago, there might not be anything left, which is part of the problem. Right. But whatever this metallic object is, if they are able to figure out a way to divert some of the water there.

• 2:05:04Joe Rogan?

  See, all layers converge in a central corridor or avenue, he said, like the atrium of a shopping mall, where you could see all floors from one vantage point. A hall consisting of a massive space, forty meters wide and no less than a hundred meters long. My personal interpretation, Tim said, is that the entire hall was constructed to house a centrally positioned freestanding object about forty meters long. So this hall, they believe, was constructed to house whatever this forty meter long unknown metallic object is. How could they not dig that up? Well, they could, but it's going to cost an immense amount of money. Right. And the thing is about the Egyptians, the people that run it, I had one of them on the podcast, Zahi Hawass,

• 2:05:46Joe Rogan?

  and he's incredibly dogmatic about his ideas of who built this and what. And when you say, how did they make these structures? Two million, three hundred thousand stones, that weigh between two and eighty tons. The biggest stones cut from quarries that were hundreds of miles away through the mountain. And it's like, this was a national project. The Egyptians did everything. Shut the fuck up. Because they were awesome. Yeah. I'm sure they were awesome. Yeah, yeah. I'm sure they were awesome, but it doesn't explain the technology involved, because there's extreme technology. Just to be able to cut those things. Like, one of the things that they don't understand is these vases. These vases that they made that are perfectly. Yeah. Perfectly designed, where there's, the difference between, like, the edges and the symmetry

• 2:06:31Joe Rogan?

  is like a thousandth of a human hair. And these are cut out of incredibly hard granite. They don't. Really? I've never heard. Yeah. You guys are familiar with that? But these are, this is a three D print of one of them, that he.

• 2:06:44Speaker 03

  Yeah, and they're fascinated by the perfection.

• 2:06:46Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 2:06:47Speaker 03

  And they're saying, how did they do that? We don't even know how to do that.

• 2:06:49Joe Rogan?

  Incredibly hard stone.

• 2:06:51Speaker 00

  Built with an incredible precision.

• 2:06:54Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 2:06:55Speaker 00

  And granite?

• 2:06:56Speaker 03

  Granite.

• 2:06:57Joe Rogan?

  Incredibly hard granite, incredible precision, back when they had no metal alloys. They had copper tools. It doesn't make any sense. None of it makes any sense. Then there's the symmetry involved in some of these statues. Like, they're perfectly symmetrical in terms of the distance between the eyes, the nose, the lips. Most, no one's face is symmetrical. Your left side of your face is different. If you combine the two sides, they look, it looks weird. But when you look at these statues, these statues which are massive carved out of granite, again, supposedly before they had steel. Like, they didn't have diamond tipped instruments to do this. They polished them. They're perfectly symmetrical and massive. Some of them are a thousand tons.

• 2:07:39Joe Rogan?

  And they don't have any understanding of how these people built these things or put them there. And they all seem to be the biggest, most spectacular ones are the oldest.

• 2:07:49Speaker 00

  How could you not want to dig those up?

• 2:07:51Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:07:52Speaker 00

  And look at them because, I mean, they're concerned about national pride, but if you dig them up.

• 2:07:58Joe Rogan?

  It's not just national pride, it's the pride of the people that have been espousing this one narrative for so long. That's part of the problem, the gatekeepers of the information.

• 2:08:07Speaker 00

  It's still national pride.

• 2:08:09Joe Rogan?

  It is, but these people are idiots. That's part of the problem. Like, their own ego is preventing them from being open minded and calling out to the world's research communities and saying, listen, there's something going on here. We don't have the big picture. We have a picture that we have formed from a limited amount of information, and we've been incredibly arrogant about what we're assuming. We also know that a lot of these pharaohs would carve their name and carve their hieroglyphs into existing things. They would claim existing things. Some of the carvings on these things are far cruder in the way they've done it than the actual construction of the thing. And they think that these are old things that were there already, and then these later pharaohs

• 2:08:54Speaker 00

  Just wanted to attach their name.

• 2:08:55Joe Rogan?

  Chiseled their hieroglyphs into these things.

• 2:08:59Speaker 03

  And another thing, and this has been mentioned a lot, is the fact that there's no tools that were ever discovered in those areas that would prove that those things were made with those, and they had to use tools, they had to have something.

• 2:09:13Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:09:13Speaker 03

  So there's not even that. That's not even available. So it's like, how did they do it? Did they hide the tools? Did they, I mean, why would they do that?

• 2:09:21Joe Rogan?

  It doesn't, none of it makes any sense. And also, these incredibly hard vases that you find, they're the oldest ones. They're the things that they find in the oldest sites. It's like, the most complicated, complex, confusing technology seems to be the oldest stuff.

• 2:09:35Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:09:36Joe Rogan?

  There's also like-

• 2:09:37Speaker 03

  You had another guy here that does research on Peru, and he was talking, I can't remember his name, I got to meet him.

• 2:09:44Joe Rogan?

  Luke Caverns? Was it him?

• 2:09:46Speaker 03

  Yeah, he goes to Peru and he has a show about that, about the ancient stuff that they're finding underground in Peru.

• 2:09:51Joe Rogan?

  There's a couple guys. What was the other guy?

• 2:09:53Speaker 03

  He, he's got black hair, I can't remember his name.

• 2:09:56Joe Rogan?

  That's Luke. Younger guy?

• 2:09:58Speaker 03

  Yeah, younger guy.

• 2:09:58Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's Luke.

• 2:09:59Speaker 03

  So, basically, he was talking about the fact that there's two layers of ancient stuff in Peru. The first layer's younger, and what's below it is what's really incredible.

• 2:10:10Joe Rogan?

  And more complex.

• 2:10:11Speaker 03

  More complex, but they don't want to go there because you're gonna destroy an existing archaeological site that's on top of it. So what's happening is they're having trouble now getting permission to go to the lower level, which is even better, because they're gonna have to break an archaeological site of a more recent part of that civilization.

• 2:10:32Joe Rogan?

  Well, this is a common theme among people. We build on older sites. There's a place that I go to in Italy, in the Amalfi Coast, and there's this incredible old church there, that's over a thousand years old, but it's built on an even older church. And there's a plexiglass floor.

• 2:10:49Speaker 03

  That shows the old church.

• 2:10:51Joe Rogan?

  Yes. The old church is underneath it, and you can see the structure of this old church. And I was asking them, "How old is the old church?" They go, "We don't know." Is over a thousand years old. So it's over a thousand years old, this church, and then this

• 2:11:03Speaker 03

  Wild.

• 2:11:03Joe Rogan?

  Really old church is on top of it, that's like hundreds and hundreds of years old also. But they built it on top of an existing structure. So this is a common theme. This is a theme in Peru, where you see the Inca construction, which is like much less complicated, smaller stones, you know, mud mortar. And but it's on top of these megalithic structures that are carved in these jigsaw shapes where it seems like they're they've been melted.

• 2:11:29Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:11:30Joe Rogan?

  It's freaky stuff. They have no understanding of what technology was used, who did it, how they did it, how they moved these immense thousand ton stones and cut them with precision in this jigsaw way so that it will absorb the energy of earthquakes and not fall down.

• 2:11:46Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's crazy. I mean, that's

• 2:11:48Joe Rogan?

  There's a lot of that stuff that's really, really freaky. And then you get into old religious texts, and that's when things get really freaky. You get to things like the Book of Enoch. They talk about the watchers who came down from the sky and created humans.

• 2:12:03Speaker 03

  A lot of unusual stuff happened a long time, a long time ago.

• 2:12:08Joe Rogan?

  And we don't have a good record of it. We just have what we know, and what we know, we get very arrogant about. We know what happened three hundred years ago.

• 2:12:16Speaker 03

  That's a really good point. Of what we know, we get very arrogant about.

• 2:12:20Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:12:20Speaker 03

  And anything else, we don't

• 2:12:22Joe Rogan?

  These academics and these people that are in charge of the narrative, like the people in Egypt, where they're very arrogant and they're gatekeepers, because their whole identity is based on them being the ones that explained to the world how these incredible sites were produced. And if something comes along that is counter to that narrative, they fight it. They fight it because it's part of them, it's their identity.

• 2:12:47Speaker 03

  When I spoke to Filippo Biondi, I talked to one of my cousins in Italy. I spent a lot of my time in Italy when I was younger. One of them, she was younger than I was when I was there, but she's now become a respected archaeologist in Rome, and she's an Egyptologist, okay? And I went out to Italy to visit family, and I was sitting at the table, this is Not even that long ago. And she's sitting next to me and I mean, I remember her from, from being a kid. And she nudged me at the table, there's, her family's all academic, everybody's a doctor or scientist or something like that. So there's always that pride of the science. And she nudges me and in Italian, she says, I'm really interested in what, what you do, what you're looking into. And I knew what she meant.

• 2:13:32Speaker 03

  It, it was about UFOs. And I just responded, I'm, I'm even more interested in what you know about what's out there in Egypt. And she looked at me and she says, we don't really know all of it. Some, a lot of, she said, a lot of it makes no sense. But she said it whispering because she knew that that's not well seen at the table. Cause now she's gonna come across as this pseudoscience type of like, oh my God, she's gonna come out of the, the mainstream, you know. So, and then she, she came, she went to her place and I was still there, we were there for a couple of days. She came and gave me a little book.

• 2:14:16Speaker 03

  And, uh, it, in Italian, I don't know how to say it. Il van, the, the, the missing, I don't know how to say it in English, but il, il, the missing evangel, like the missing scriptures, basically. It's a little book in Italian about the missing scriptures that are not in the Bible, that speak of things that are not convenient for what we are arrogant to think we understand.

• 2:14:43Joe Rogan?

  And one of the fascinating things about these missing scriptures is they found them alongside existing scriptures. So when they found the Dead Sea Scrolls in Qumran, so they found these in a cave in Qumran. And it's kind of a crazy thing, like someone threw a rock and hit a clay pot and heard the shattering of a clay pot. So they threw a rock into this high cave and realized there was something in there and then they started looking. And then they found these scrolls that were in these clay pots. Inside the scrolls, they found the Book of Isaiah. It was a thousand years older than the oldest version of the Book of Isaiah that we had ever found. And It's identical verbatim to the Book of Isaiah that is currently in the Bible.

• 2:15:26Joe Rogan?

  Along with it is the Book of Enoch. Hmm. And the Book of Enoch is fucking squirrely.

• 2:15:32Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:15:32Joe Rogan?

  The Book of Enoch is squirrely.

• 2:15:34Speaker 00

  That's a good way to describe it.

• 2:15:36Joe Rogan?

  Just a few rabbis decided that the Book of Enoch was too weird because it didn't jive with the Torah. So they left it out of the biblical canon. That's right. That's why it's not taught. But the Book of Enoch is readily available. You can read it and it's also in the Ethiopian Bible. The Ethiopian Bible includes the Book of Enoch. Really? Yes, and those are the people that supposedly are in possession of the Ark of the Covenant. The Ark of the Covenant, yeah. Which is like, Graham Hancock talks about it. There's like, a person is set to, like, they have a job of watching the Ark of the Covenant. But it's known that it's going to kill them. So they all get cataracts and cancer. Yeah, like it has like bad things. Yeah, that's right. Well, it has some sort of radiation apparently and they exhibit signs of radiation poisoning when these people are designed to be the curators.

• 2:16:19Speaker 00

  Where is the Ark of the Covenant supposed to be?

• 2:16:21Joe Rogan?

  Supposedly in Ethiopia.

• 2:16:23Speaker 00

  So you guys think that's...

• 2:16:25Joe Rogan?

  I mean, I'm very... I think it's ancient technology. I think it's probably ancient technology. It's probably some completely not understood ancient technology.

• 2:16:35Speaker 00

  I'm not discounting it. I'm just, I'm just wondering.

• 2:16:38Joe Rogan?

  Well, I like the fact that you're skeptical even though you have the craziest fucking story in the world.

• 2:16:41Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:16:43Joe Rogan?

  It speaks to your integrity. It really does. Because you're not a guy who believes kooky shit. So for you, a guy who doesn't believe kooky shit is a hard rational scientist who's an engineer who's done things. Like put a rocket engine in the back of a fucking Honda and then, or a hydrogen powered Corvette. And then you go and see these things. You're like, wait, what the fuck is this thing you have in this hangar?

• 2:17:06Speaker 00

  I worship technology.

• 2:17:07Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:17:08Speaker 00

  Nothing else.

• 2:17:09Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:17:09Speaker 00

  So, I mean, to hear something like that, it's, do you think that, that, that actually exists?

• 2:17:16Joe Rogan?

  I don't know. Graham Hancock is convinced it exists. It's very carefully guarded, and these people have been guarding it for centuries.

• 2:17:22Speaker 00

  I mean, it's throughout history, right?

• 2:17:24Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 2:17:25Speaker 00

  So.

• 2:17:25Speaker 03

  I mean, there's too many missing pieces of the puzzle to really say one way or another. I don't think there's.

• 2:17:31Speaker 00

  Whether or not it was just mythology or an actual.

• 2:17:34Joe Rogan?

  Right. But it is weird that he's talked to these people that have these fucking cataracts, and these people all say the same thing. They die. The people that are designed or that are designated to be the curators of this particular religious object.

• 2:17:47Speaker 00

  I relate this back to, I think I told you the first time we met, you know, if somebody found a nuclear reactor.

• 2:17:54Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:17:54Speaker 00

  Yeah. Back at that time, you know, and they took it apart, they just would drop dead.

• 2:17:59Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:18:00Speaker 00

  You know, from the radio.

• 2:18:01Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:18:01Speaker 00

  Magically from that, and anybody that came in to check on them would also die, and they go, this is evilly, evil, it's cursed, or whatever.

• 2:18:09Joe Rogan?

  Or something that you're not supposed to have access to because it's divine.

• 2:18:15Speaker 00

  Or some other, yeah, right. And could this be something at another level, you know?

• 2:18:20Speaker 03

  That, I have to say, and I mean, I'm no one to say it, but I struggle with divine stuff because I'm like, it, this, this craft or this technology. I mean, our phones to somebody a thousand years ago would look like some divine object. I mean, it's technology to us. So we have to be very cautious in, like, I'm not saying there is no divine something. Maybe there is, we don't know, but I think technology really could mask itself as divine power.

• 2:18:51Joe Rogan?

  100%. Or divine energy itself could be technology taken to its final form.

• 2:18:59Speaker 03

  That's, that I'm open to.

• 2:19:01Joe Rogan?

  Well, if you think about what we're talking about with sentient AI, an AI that has the ability to make better versions of itself, what happens if it's left alone?

• 2:19:10Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:19:11Joe Rogan?

  For a thousand years to do this? Well, what do you have? You have something that can harness the power of the universe itself. The zero-point energy can do whatever, I mean, has a complete understanding of quantum entanglement, complete understanding of how the universe functions, how it was created. There's new theories that believe that the entire universe itself exists inside of a black hole. They're trying to figure out whether or not there ever was a big bang, or if it's a continuous cycle of things existing inside black holes.

• 2:19:41Speaker 00

  So where do you think we are? What do you think this is?

• 2:19:44Joe Rogan?

  I think it's a process. I think we're at a stage of a process. Our problem is, we have ideology, we have dogma, we have ego. We have people that are smarter than most people, but want to think that they have all the information, and I don't think they do. And then we have open-minded people that are curious but don't want to look like kooks. And they're all trying to figure it out, why we're making a fucking digital god. Why these weirdo on-the-spectrum eggheads.

• 2:20:11Speaker 00

  We are literally manufacturing our own god.

• 2:20:14Joe Rogan?

  Right. But if you take that and you extrapolate, you go from where it is now, you think about the exponential increase of technology, well, where does that go? It kind of goes divine. I mean, that might be what god is. We want to think that god is a thing that exists. It just exists, it created everything. Maybe we make god.

• 2:20:36Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're on the same channel, yeah. I think we created god.

• 2:20:43Joe Rogan?

  I think human curiosity and this thirst for innovation is all a part of it.

• 2:20:49Speaker 03

  I'll say something about the technology, because it always fascinates me. I mean, I spent four years with Bobinett to build it in a virtual environment. So I kind of had to think about it while I'm doing it. But if you really think about what this technology that you saw does, it essentially creates this artificial field of, whether it's artificial, maybe it's natural, maybe it's a natural field, but it creates a field that we're not familiar with. And that field, I mean, Joe, you saw the movie, there was a test that was done in the lab that froze a candle flame.

• 2:21:21Speaker 00

  Right, right.

• 2:21:22Speaker 03

  Okay? But the photons are still visible within our realm here, outside of the field. And you're still seeing the photons, yet it looks like it's frozen. To me, is that technology like a black hole? Is it some type of time stop?

• 2:21:44Speaker 03

  And they, and it, it basically gives us the power to utilize time in our advantage. If you think about progression in technology, anything we do, it takes time. Anything takes time, whether it's computing power. Now we're seeing quantum computers do things that they're faster and faster and they could do a trillion processes in an instant and Japan is coming up with better and then China. But because everything has to do with how long does it take to do that?

• 2:22:14Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:22:15Speaker 03

  If a technology can make you bypass time, it's like the record player playing music, but you're, you're now able to lift it, lift the little pin on the record and move it to wherever you want.

• 2:22:29Joe Rogan?

  Yes, that's a good way of describing it.

• 2:22:31Speaker 03

  Right, and now at that point, time is in your hands. And if we have a technology similar to what you saw, because you always said, gravity is a control.

• 2:22:42Speaker 00

  Gravity is time.

• 2:22:44Speaker 03

  It's interlocked, right?

• 2:22:45Joe Rogan?

  And space and time are interlocked.

• 2:22:47Speaker 03

  Exactly, so if that's interlocked, then we have to look at it not just as a propulsion system or some type of cool weapon, but how is it affecting time and how can we use that to our benefit to evolve, sorry, to evolve faster? Because again, the faster we can compute, the faster we could do something, the faster we're evolving. And if we could lift that needle and bring it faster to get there, to get somewhere, why not use it?

• 2:23:19Speaker 00

  Or should, I mean, should we be allowed to do that?

• 2:23:22Joe Rogan?

  Us in our current form?

• 2:23:24Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:23:24Speaker 03

  No.

• 2:23:25Speaker 00

  I, I, like I said, I'm, I'm not exactly on our side anymore.

• 2:23:31Joe Rogan?

  Well, that was one of the, do you remember Jamie, who discussed the way they were describing the use of some of this alien technology as instantaneous weapon deployment systems?

• 2:23:43Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, I'm not sure we should be trusted with this stuff.

• 2:23:46Joe Rogan?

  Right?

• 2:23:46Speaker 00

  No, really, really.

• 2:23:49Joe Rogan?

  Well, you think about what we're doing in Iran right now, you would say no.

• 2:23:52Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, I would say no, for sure.

• 2:23:55Joe Rogan?

  We're still flying over patches of dirt and bombing the fucking shit out of it.

• 2:23:58Speaker 00

  No, imagine if we had something a, a, a million times that power.

• 2:24:03Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:24:04Speaker 00

  Really, humans should not be trusted with that.

• 2:24:09Joe Rogan?

  Right, we ought to trust it to AI, that's why we're making it bomb.

• 2:24:14Speaker 00

  This is getting scary. It is getting scary. It is. But it's not science fiction anymore. No, it's not. I mean, we're making fun of it now, but no. This is dangerous stuff, and I'm, you know, I'm sorry for the people who think this is all a joke. It's not. This is real. Yeah. And I'm really not sure we should be trusted with this. That's maybe why for 40 years or 60 years, people have agreed to keep it quiet. I would agree. And... Well, that's the most logical conclusion. Yeah, this is incredibly dangerous stuff. Yeah. And again, it's world dominating technology. And I don't know what to do with it, other than to keep it from people, so...

• 2:24:58Speaker 03

  And how do we know if it comes up? Something I always struggle with is, let's say they, let's say we do get in a, some type of thing saying, "All right, we have to see it from somebody in the government, the president, whoever, that says, "Okay, here we are, we have this." Well, first of all, we have to validate it. The journalists are gonna, the whole world...

• 2:25:20Speaker 00

  Nobody's gonna say it.

• 2:25:21Speaker 03

  The media is not gonna just trust somebody saying that. They're gonna go, "Okay, wait a minute, what are you talking about?", right? So it's not like, because somebody says it, we just have to swallow it. It's like, "All right, go, show us, right?" And then when you do that, well, now you're exposing something else. What do we, what, what happens when we need to believe it? Like, as, as, as, as people, what, what has to happen? For me to believe something that somebody says, there really has to be something serious that makes me believe it.

• 2:25:53Speaker 00

  Right.

• 2:25:53Speaker 03

  You know what I mean? Like, if a president, or anybody, prime minister, whoever it is, says something to me, I'll still go like, "Okay, I mean, show me."

• 2:26:01Speaker 00

  Right.

• 2:26:02Speaker 03

  And then when they show it, how do I know that's actually that?

• 2:26:08Speaker 00

  Think about that.

• 2:26:08Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:26:09Speaker 00

  Right? And then from there, we now have to go to another level of, okay, well, if we have to prove it, we have to bring in scientific community, okay? That means they have access to it. What's the security parameters there?

• 2:26:24Joe Rogan?

  Right, and then you get compartmentalization.

• 2:26:26Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 2:26:26Joe Rogan?

  Right. And then that stops any sort of an understanding.

• 2:26:29Speaker 00

  There you go.

• 2:26:30Joe Rogan?

  And that's why you have this stigma, this stagnation of where you've got these people working on this thing for decades and not making any progress.

• 2:26:39Speaker 00

  You know how far we could have gotten if there was free discussion between all the groups working on this?

• 2:26:45Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:26:45Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:26:46Joe Rogan?

  But then you also have these fucking psychos like from Doctor Strangelove that want to turn it into a nuclear delivery system.

• 2:26:51Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:26:53Joe Rogan?

  It's where you don't have to worry about them detecting nuclear bombs headed their way, you just instantaneously devastate Moscow in one shot.

• 2:27:03Joe Rogan?

  You don't have to take credit for it.

• 2:27:05Speaker 00

  Yeah, but we'd...

• 2:27:07Joe Rogan?

  Right. No, it's like, we are not ready, right?

• 2:27:10Speaker 00

  Yeah, no, I know we're not ready, but we'd be more advanced if we did that. No, I mean, I agree that, I agree with that. But, um...

• 2:27:19Joe Rogan?

  It's all very strange, and no one knows more strange than you. Like...

• 2:27:24Speaker 00

  No, there are plenty of people that know more strange than me. I mean, Dennis knew more strange than me, anybody above him knew that. I just knew a small part of it.

• 2:27:34Joe Rogan?

  But you, out of all the people that can talk about it, that are out there communicating about it, you have actually seen it physically.

• 2:27:41Speaker 00

  Yeah, I try to only talk about what I've seen and touched and verified. I've heard plenty of other stuff that I don't know if is true or not, and there's no sense in repeating that, because nonsense moves at the speed of light these days.

• 2:27:55Joe Rogan?

  Right, yeah, it does.

• 2:27:57Speaker 00

  And that's, that's just, it's terrible.

• 2:28:00Joe Rogan?

  You live in a weird existence, Bob, you really do, because you're, you know, you've been holding on to this, and you have this experience from 40 years ago, that's just... Become a part of folklore. It's become part of the zeitgeist. Like, this is why your podcast that we did is the most watched podcast I've ever done. This resonates with people in a way that, look, I've done a lot of UFO ones. I had Travis Walton on, I've had a lot of people that have stories. They're all very interesting. They don't get nearly the amount of traction that yours does. And I think it's because you're uniquely credible. You're uniquely credible in the fact that you are very skeptical. You're not interested in, like, these fantastic ideas. You're very dismissive of nonsense.

• 2:28:45Joe Rogan?

  But yet, you have this burden. Like, you actually physically touched these fucking things and went inside of them.

• 2:28:53Speaker 00

  Yeah, I did. I mean, I was fortunate enough to have this really unique job. That's about it. And I am fascinated with the technology. But that's where it stops. I'm not interested in anybody else's story, although everybody has to email me. And, you know, I understand it, you know, that they're looking for somebody. "Hey, I saw this thing out when I was on my boat and, you know, what is it?" "I don't know." You know, I mean, they're, they're, they're, they're just looking for something and it's like, "I don't know, maybe it was Venus or something."

• 2:29:25Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:29:26Speaker 00

  "Oh, my God, you suck, you know, you work for the government." You know, it's like,

• 2:29:29Joe Rogan?

  That's true.

• 2:29:30Speaker 00

  "Dude, I'm just looking for a prosaic explanation."

• 2:29:33Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:29:33Speaker 00

  And, um, you know, but I only know what I saw and I touched for myself. And everything else, even in official government documentation, it's just words on paper. I don't know if that stuff is true. So you gotta draw the line there.

• 2:29:48Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 2:29:49Speaker 00

  But, um, you know, I know what I, what I did see, I know for a fact. And there is no way you can tell me that that's not real.

• 2:30:02Speaker 03

  Yeah. I, I mean, I, I have to say, in having worked with him and having, you know, inadvertently, there's no way that myself or people on my team weren't trying to dig deeper in front, maybe there's a prob, maybe there's gonna be a gap, maybe we'll find something wrong with the story, cuz we went, we went very deep, we had to build S4, we had to build the sport model. And there were things that happened over the years, things that he had said to us before we had built it, that there's no way he could've known, because there was physicalities, real things that we built. When you build something in a 3D environment, you're actually building a real world.

• 2:30:46Speaker 03

  It's got light bounce and refractions like the real world, like when you turn on the light, it does the same thing. If a material has a sheen, you see it, it's literally the same thing, it's just computing power that gives you access to another world. And he mentioned things that were absolutely impossible to know. Like what? One of the things that got, two things really convinced me, one of them was in the interior of the craft. You had said to us, it was very dark in there. And while Bob is explaining to us the, this interior of the craft, and many time he kept repeating, it was really dark in there.

• 2:31:25Speaker 00

  Even though there were halogen lights in there.

• 2:31:27Speaker 03

  Right, and so, at a certain point, he says, as I'm crawling in, there's like these extension cords, and I remember going, "Extension cords?" Like, it then hadn't computed, and he's like, "Yeah, they had lights in there." And I'm thinking, "It's true." I mean, there, there's no light switch inside this big thi, it's fifty, fifty-two feet, it's big. And so, he said, "Yeah, there were two big industrial yellow, uh, industrial lights with four spots each pointed up." And so, we decided to make those, we decided to research the type that were used back then in the United States, especially on military bases, the halogen power, cuz there was this halogen in nineteen eighty-eight, and we turned them on.

• 2:32:06Speaker 00

  And it was still dark.

• 2:32:08Speaker 03

  And it was super dark.

• 2:32:09Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:32:10Speaker 03

  And I remember Christopher Matteau, by the way, a big shout out to Christopher Matteau that's on my team, who made a lot of those visuals, and he's like a magician, he's, he's the best. He, he's there, and I, I said, "Chris, turn on the lights, cuz we have to film in the craft." And he's like, "They're, they're on." I said, "They're not fucking on, I can't see anything." He's like, "They're fully on." And I said, "Well, that doesn't make any sense. It's so dark in there." Yeah. I remember thinking, "Shit." It consumes light in there, yeah. And so, we upped the power of the light so that you could see more, and it was still dark. And I thought, "What the hell is happening?" I goes, "Is there a bug? Is it, is there something wrong?" He goes, "No, I don't know. It's absorbing the light in there."

• 2:32:54Speaker 03

  We had to up the light intensity on those tripods by twenty-fold in order for you to see the visuals you see in our film. Otherwise, it would be really dark in that craft.

• 2:33:06Joe Rogan?

  So, how did you compute that? Like, what parameters did you establish?

• 2:33:12Speaker 03

  So, what you do is you're inside a 3D environment. You're in a 3D world. Now, we're inside the craft that is 52 feet in diameter. We bring a camera in there. So, we were filming, the whole film was done with a Blackmagic 6K cam. So, we would bring our Blackmagics in the 3D environment. You can actually set that so that we could film inside the craft. So, it matches the filming of our real cameras. And so, as soon as the camera's on, it's the same lens, it's the same aperture. Everything is as you would have it. And so, you're trying to adjust for this dark room. But if the room is really dark,

• 2:33:54Speaker 03

  you can't really get a good look at it, because if you go close enough, you would have seen like a seat and a little bit of the reactor, but you would have been like, "What's the black screen I'm looking at?"

• 2:34:04Joe Rogan?

  So, what is the explanation for why it's so dark?

• 2:34:06Speaker 03

  It's just the way the light reflects on it. And that is exactly, yeah. It's when you're in that space, exactly.

• 2:34:12Joe Rogan?

  Right, but here's the question. Like, what are you, when you're making this in a computer model?

• 2:34:16Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:34:17Joe Rogan?

  Right? What are you putting in that would make it absorb light that way?

• 2:34:22Speaker 03

  I didn't do that. So, what we did is... We spent over a year with Bob, I'm not kidding, it was like a year of trying to figure out the material of the craft, the actual skin of the craft. That was the hardest thing to do.

• 2:34:37Speaker 00

  The specularity and the reflectivity of the actual material.

• 2:34:41Speaker 03

  When you see this.

• 2:34:42Speaker 00

  The angle.

• 2:34:42Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:34:43Speaker 00

  And then when the lights are in there, they just reflected a weird angle. And it never gets bright in there unless you have tremendous amounts of light in there. It's always dark.

• 2:34:54Speaker 03

  And, and, sorry to interrupt, but that would have been, so when, when that happened, and we have the right material, which is like this, let's call it unpolished stainless steel. It's got a little bit of usage to it, just to give it some texture. It's, it's as, it's got the same sheen, reflection, refractions of a real material like that. Cause every time we put a fake light in there, okay, it's reacting like that. And now you turn these big halogen lights on, and it's like, the part of where the halogen is hitting the ceiling of the craft, cause they were turned upwards, remember? Bob said, they were not pointed like this, they were pointed to the ceiling of the craft. So you got two of them. It's like wherever the light was going, was getting eaten up by that portion of the

• 2:35:39Speaker 03

  material. So it's not reflecting all the way. So you have a 52 foot distance, and it's being lost in a maybe seven, eight foot diameter environment, area where the light is.

• 2:35:52Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:35:53Speaker 03

  And we're like, why is that happening? But that's how it, that's the reality. He could not have known that. If he, if he's trying to make that up, anybody who's inventing a story, says there's two industrial light with four bright halogen spots in there, a liar would not say it was really dark in there. You don't know that. You have to build it. Right. So to me, that was a physicality of being inside the craft that made me go, Lazar could not have known that if he was making that up. You wouldn't know it until you experimented with it. Exactly. Right.

• 2:36:35Speaker 03

  So I'm like, unless Bob, back then, decided to go in his garage, build himself a fake dome, which I don't think he did. I'm like, how would he have known that? We didn't expect that. We were, we were struggling with, why is it so dark in there? And you make films, so you're used to using lighting and cameras. Exactly. And, and Chris was like, dude, this thing is just eating up the light. And I'm like, Bob kept saying, it's so dark in there. And it just, how, how do you, how do you, how is that possible? What were the other things? The other one, I laugh about this with Bob all the time. It's about the flag on, on the craft that you could have seen it.

• 2:37:15Speaker 00

  I don't remember.

• 2:37:16Speaker 03

  So when he walked into the hangar the very first time, he saw, the very first time.

• 2:37:23Speaker 00

  The backwards flag.

• 2:37:24Speaker 03

  He saw the craft and he saw the American, the reversed American flag sticker on the craft. I wonder why it was reversed? I'll, I'll, I'll get to that in a sec. I think I know, but, whatever. I'll, I'll, I'll say what I think. And there's a lot of stuff, I researched a lot of stuff on Bob Lazar before I did this, and there's a lot of bad information out there. So I, I really, I really tell people, if you really want to see what he saw, don't go read what's out there. Check this out, because Bob actually vetted everything. So it's not the wrong information to read. But anyway, there's a lot of detractors saying, there's no way Lazar could have seen that flag. If the craft was that size and it was on the hull, on the, on the craft shell, there's no way, the angle, he's five something, he wouldn't have been able to see it.

• 2:38:08Speaker 03

  So we built it. We built a 52-foot diameter craft. We put it in the hangar. It's there. And my, my team, Chris, gives me the goggles, the ones I made you try on. And it's the very first time I go in there. And I know the craft is there, so I put them on. And now they're, they're hoping, because they're there with, with notes. They're hoping I'm giving them all the notes. Oh, no, that's not good. That's not good. And the first thing I did is I looked to my right. I'm looking at the craft. And I'm, I asked Chris to put me at five foot ten, which is your height. So I said, at five ten, I'm Bob's height with the goggles, I want to see. And the first thing I said is, oh, it's, there it is. And they're like, their what is?

• 2:38:53Speaker 03

  I said, the flag. And they thought I was pointing at a flag on a wall. And they're like, there's no flag in the hangar. I said, no, on the craft. And they're like, yeah? I said, you could clearly see it. It was clear. That was something that also made me go, yeah, this is, this is it. This is the real size. So had Bob Lazar not actually seen that, the majority of the, the tractors out there kept saying, there's no way at that angle, a, a human eye could see a sticker on the top of the craft, which is on the top shelf. But you can. It's as clear as day. So those were two things that I considered to be like, you know,

• 2:39:38Speaker 03

  it's there. So I, I know to maybe some people, that's not a lot. But as a person like I am, who's very technical, I'm very, I'm super difficult. It took a long time to do this because I'm a perfectionist. And I wanted to make sure it was accurate to what he saw. I look at stuff like that because I analyze everything like that. And I analyzed his story inside out.

• 2:40:05Joe Rogan?

  And if you couldn't see the flag from that position,

• 2:40:07Speaker 03

  I would have been, it would have been a big, yeah, that would have been a red flag for me. I would have been like, wait, you can't see it. But you can. So you can't, you can't put enough of a value on little details like that. Because he didn't say this in 2026. He said this in 1989.

• 2:40:25Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:40:27Speaker 03

  Why?

• 2:40:28Joe Rogan?

  Why do you think the flag was reversed?

• 2:40:30Speaker 03

  In American flag use law, the only thing we were able to ascertain is the fact that on military or on vehicles, anything military on a uniform, if ever you see an American flag on your right shoulder, it's reversed because it's how the wind is blowing the flag. On your left side, it's like the flag is because the wind is blowing this way. If you look at vehicles, let's say a Greyhound bus, they have American flags on each side, and they have a normal one on the left one, on the left side, and a reversed on the right side because it's the right side of the vehicle.

• 2:41:09Speaker 00

  So it's blowing, it's blowing the flag back.

• 2:41:12Speaker 03

  Because the wind is blowing the flag that way. So the reversed American flag is a, is a, is a actual, it's the law of how to use the flag in the United States military or on vehicles. And it has to be like that on the right side. So to, to say, is that the right side of the craft?

• 2:41:32Speaker 00

  Yeah, it must be.

• 2:41:33Speaker 03

  It must be because if you go into the craft, the seats, when you're, when you go into the craft, I can't wait for you to go in the craft, when you go inside, the seats are facing the right side, meaning the hatch is the right side of the craft. It's the only thing that came to mind. I mean, is that what they did at S4? They fucking put a sticker on it? I mean, it's the only logical thing we could think of, is that's why it was there.

• 2:42:03Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 2:42:04Speaker 03

  I don't know. I'm, you know, my other, my other, because if it was an American flag, if it was just for identifying this as America, why would you reverse it?

• 2:42:16Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:42:17Speaker 03

  Right?

• 2:42:18Joe Rogan?

  You're reversing it because it's indicating the direction in which it travels.

• 2:42:22Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 2:42:25Speaker 00

  That's just an interesting.

• 2:42:26Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:42:26Speaker 00

  Right?

• 2:42:27Joe Rogan?

  It's all interesting. The goggles is a trip.

• 2:42:30Speaker 00

  Right.

• 2:42:31Joe Rogan?

  When I put on the 3D AR goggles and you VR goggles rather and you you stand in that warehouse, that hangar.

• 2:42:40Speaker 00

  The hangar.

• 2:42:41Joe Rogan?

  And look at it, it's very strange.

• 2:42:42Speaker 00

  It's.

• 2:42:43Joe Rogan?

  It feels weird.

• 2:42:43Speaker 00

  That's exactly like it was.

• 2:42:45Joe Rogan?

  It feels very weird. It feels very weird because I mean, I'm only imagining what it's like to actually be you in 1988 and be standing there.

• 2:42:53Speaker 00

  When you put the goggles on, that's exactly how it was.

• 2:42:56Joe Rogan?

  What did Dennis say when you first saw it? Was he like, huh?

• 2:43:00Speaker 00

  No. Dennis was hardcore.

• 2:43:03Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:43:04Speaker 00

  He was, yeah, he was here. Look at that. You know, come back in here. I mean, it there was no reaction. Barry, on the other hand, was out of his mind. He couldn't wait to show me stuff and, you know, he said, check this out. Oh, my God, that was that awesome. You know, but Dennis was a it was like a hardcore, you know, military guy.

• 2:43:27Joe Rogan?

  How much of a view did you get at the other crafts? Because it's one of the things in the film, you only see like hints of them.

• 2:43:33Speaker 00

  That was it.

• 2:43:34Joe Rogan?

  That's it.

• 2:43:35Speaker 00

  That's it. What you saw in the film is exactly what it was. It was just a passing thing. And as I was walking out there going, wow, there's more. Everything looks different. And other than the the first two hangars, I really couldn't tell what was passed out there, but there were other hangars and there were things inside them. But.

• 2:43:56Joe Rogan?

  It's also interesting that at the time in 1988, this site was not even confirmed. This was like for you to have to know about this and know the exact location of it is kind of strange.

• 2:44:07Speaker 00

  Right. Now, Luigi did that. I mean, I gave him the general idea. I said, you know, I know what time I got out there and I could see Papoose Lake and behind me.

• 2:44:19Joe Rogan?

  The hill.

• 2:44:20Speaker 00

  He pulled up a lot of stuff from there. But another interesting thing he pulled up was there was an old silver mine. Exactly there. In the exact same place, and I wonder if they used that as the, it was already drilled? There was already, you know, corridors in there?

• 2:44:38Speaker 03

  I actually, I actually held this for this show. What I'm about to say is the first time ever. It's not even, it didn't make it in my film. I wish it did, but it didn't make it in the film. Veronica at, on our team, she's my sister. She's like my right hand, and if I didn't have her, I wouldn't be here right now. She found this. And at a certain point, we were looking at the maps out there. And we, you'll see in my film that Gene Huff sent us some US Department of the Interior official maps of that environment at the Groom Lake, Papoose Lake. But we weren't satisfied. We wanted to go deeper. We said, there's gotta be more. And there's one map in, that is a publicly available map.

• 2:45:23Speaker 03

  It's super not easy to find, by the way. That is in the hands of the US Department of the Interior. I could get it to you if you want. I can email it to you. That map is the oldest map of Papoose Lake known in the hands of the government. That is, that is public domain. That map, and everybody's gonna be listening to this, clearly shows a road that goes right into where S4 was, is. It doesn't show a road near it. It shows a road going right in the mountain. And they removed it. That map is from 1941. Okay?

• 2:46:08Speaker 03

  Right after that, the map is 1950 and 1952, and those roads were removed. But the latest, the oldest map we ever found, it's gonna be available. We're gonna post it on our website. It's gonna be everywhere. It shows, uh, clear as day, a road that goes right into the mountain, exactly where Bob Lazar said S4 was.

• 2:46:32Joe Rogan?

  So do you think that that was the road to the silver mine initially?

• 2:46:35Speaker 03

  Yes, I believe that, yeah.

• 2:46:37Speaker 00

  It makes sense that they would use an existing facility and just enlarge it, instead of start from nothing.

• 2:46:42Joe Rogan?

  Right, of course, especially if it's abandoned.

• 2:46:44Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:46:45Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. And it also makes sense that if Roswell was real, and if they really did find a crashed UFO in 1947, like, in the 1950s, they'd be like, "Let's get rid of this fucking road."

• 2:46:58Speaker 03

  Right?

• 2:46:59Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. If we're putting this out there, if we're building this facility out there, and if they did have it, that also makes sense that they've worked on this for decades. You come along in 1988, they've got this happening in the 1950s, and it's still there.

• 2:47:12Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:47:13Speaker 03

  I think what happened is, when the CIA took over, because CIA's the one took over Area 51, I think what happened is, as they took over, they just removed the road. It wasn't even because there was a UFO, a flying saucer there. I just think they got in there, took control of that terrain, that whole landscape, and said, "Remove it off the maps." Because it's there prior to them taking ownership of that land.

• 2:47:40Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 2:47:41Speaker 03

  So, I mean, it's clear that there was a road there, and then they came in, CIA said, "Take it out." And S4 might have had already an installation, not, it wasn't an installation, but they probably had a tunnel in there already, because they were, it was a mine. So it was an easier way to build a big facility in the side of the hill. Makes sense.

• 2:48:03Joe Rogan?

  It does make sense. And then there's also the images that you got of what looks like the hangar bay doors that are camouflaged.

• 2:48:11Speaker 03

  And I have to say, that-

• 2:48:13Joe Rogan?

  Gotta go again?

• 2:48:13Speaker 00

  Yeah, sorry.

• 2:48:14Joe Rogan?

  No worries.

• 2:48:16Speaker 03

  That's all good.

• 2:48:17Speaker 00

  Prostate problem.

• 2:48:20Joe Rogan?

  Technology will fix that. It'll remove your prostate, turn you into a fucking alien. Um, so, that image that you got, um, of the, unfortunately, it's kind of blurry, but you do see something that looks very similar to what you'd expect to be camouflaged garage bay doors.

• 2:48:41Speaker 03

  I got contacted by a guy called Scott Mitchell. And I was getting contacted by everybody, Joe. Everybody, everybody was trying to get in and find, getting to make me work with them or use something they found. So I was, I was ignoring ninety-five, ninety-nine percent of people's like, it's getting tiring. Everybody's like, you gotta listen to me. I know stuff about that. I'm like, whatever. I'm working with Bob Lazar. I, I have enough right now. And, but this guy, we had built the base and I knew exactly where it was. I knew exactly the layout. And this guy, he not only contacted me, but he sent me an image that he had, that he had drawn. He didn't want to send me the real, what he had found, but he says, here it is.

• 2:49:22Speaker 03

  This is where the doors are and this is exactly where they, they point to. I looked at the image and I said, not bad. I mean, he really nailed it in the image. And I thought, okay. I, I, at first I thought somebody on my team leaked something we had. To be honest, I'm like, ah, who did that? Who sent out one of our renders to somebody? And, cause that's what I thought. And they're like, no, no, no. This is what? So I, I, I, I talked to this guy and he's a, he's really, really good at researching and he ended up becoming probably one of the best I've ever, like, he's one of the best I've ever seen. His name is Scott Mitchell. And he says, there are pictures that were taken in 2020.

• 2:50:07Speaker 03

  And they, ironically, those pictures were taken on December 25th, 2020, which is Christmas Day in the middle of COVID, which means the base might've been shut down. If you think about that, you know what I mean? Like it's COVID, it's like in the heat of it, plus it's twenty, it's twenty, it's 25th of December. So there's probably nothing going on there. And this private pilot in a small Cessna requested access inside the perimeter and they granted him permission. And he had a big Nikon camera onboard with a big telescopic zoom. And he took a shit ton of pictures and they're amazing. They're all public. They're all available. You could download them. And there's this, these pictures of Papoose Lake and the hill.

• 2:50:50Speaker 03

  But they were being used on the internet for a long time. Everybody was like, see, Bob Lazar is a fraud. It's not real. There's nothing there. Well, of course, you can't see it. It's, first of all, 17 miles away. And secondly, they're not designed for you to see it. And that also, let's talk about something that Bob was talking about in 1988. The picture was taken in 2020. I mean, there could be, that could be a different landscape now. Anyway, so he said, look, this image, if you change the contrast, you gotta keep the original, but just move and try to extract data from your image. You know, anybody who knows how to use that, do that with photography, you can do that.

• 2:51:32Speaker 03

  And he, and he pulls out these, this, this geometric, these geometric shapes. You could see them. They're, they're like little, they look like rectangles. And I thought, what if this is not real? I, I was super skeptical. I'll be honest with you. I wasn't, we're talking about the picture with the doors. The doors. On the, the hangar doors, the one from Scott Mitchell, the one that we have in the film. Oh, right, right. And, and so I, I didn't believe it. I thought, there's no way. I go, there's no way this is real. I, I don't believe it. So Scott was really cool. He said, look, man, I, I understand you're skeptic. I get it. I want you to do me a favor. Go online, search it yourself. I won't even tell you where it is.

• 2:52:16Speaker 03

  I'll just tell you what, who, who took the pictures. The, the only thing he gave us is the picture number is 0501. That's what the picture number is. He goes, if you find it, have whoever on your team playing around with it until you see it. That was fair, because I said, okay. Because I mean, if it's, if it's out there, there's two different places it was on, online. And the one place we got it from was the source of it. Okay, was the, from the photographer, the guy himself.

• 2:52:48Speaker 03

  We take it. I had three different people on my team. Everybody's really good at all this stuff on my team. So I said, guys, this is what we need to see. If you guys could pull it up, I'm not going to be a skeptical. Everybody got it almost in the same time. They were playing around and eventually the easiest software we used to get that detail out was DaVinci Resolve. And with DaVinci, it's a faster process than if you're messing around with Photoshop or whatever. And it came and I was like, oh my God, it's really there. You could clear. So what I did is I had them scan the rest of the picture because it's

• 2:53:28Speaker 03

  pixels, right? So I said, let's also see if it's not some pixel pixelation. Is it maybe just what the photo does? Maybe we just got lucky and it looks like that there. Maybe it's going to show something similar elsewhere and it doesn't. And then I said, all right, go get me 0502. I want 0500. I want because the guy kept snapping pictures. I want you to do the same. Like we went really military. Like I said, I want to make sure this is this is real. I don't, I'm not going to put our name on this if it's not. And it ended up being other pictures also show it by the way, because he went click, click, click. So it's like, it's not just that one. That's the clearest one. And so I was at a certain

• 2:54:10Speaker 03

  point, I go to Bob's house and I'm sitting there and the guy calls me, Scott Mitchell calls me and he has no idea I'm with Bob Lazar. So I pick up, it's a video call and he goes, hey, man, what's going on? I said, well, look, I said, look who I'm with. And he just like exploded because he was like, oh my God, you're with Bob. And I said, show him. And so Bob was there and we showed it. We ended up transferring the call on a Zoom call and he showed it and you said, yeah, like I remember you going, yeah, that's it.

• 2:54:41Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, that.

• 2:54:42Joe Rogan?

  What did that look like to you when you saw those images?

• 2:54:44Speaker 00

  Yeah, that was, that was awesome.

• 2:54:46Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:54:46Speaker 00

  It was awesome. What was really shocking was the first hanger was bigger.

• 2:54:52Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:54:52Speaker 00

  Yeah, because that was the big hanger. Yeah.

• 2:54:54Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:54:54Speaker 00

  Yeah. Because the first hanger is the big hanger and there's smaller ones. And I said, Jesus, the first hanger is bigger. You

• 2:55:00Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:55:00Speaker 00

  You found it. You found it. So I mean, that, that was, I just lit up at that point.

• 2:55:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:55:07Joe Rogan?

  What happens if you look at that site with Google Earth?

• 2:55:10Speaker 00

  That is with the Google Earth.

• 2:55:11Speaker 03

  No, no, that was the picture, but Google Earth.

• 2:55:13Speaker 00

  That was from the South, no.

• 2:55:14Speaker 03

  But Google Earth, and I'll tell you something about Google, that was the.

• 2:55:17Speaker 00

  That wasn't with Google Earth?

• 2:55:18Speaker 03

  No, the, the picture is a real photo. The picture of the hangar doors is a real photo.

• 2:55:23Speaker 00

  Oh, okay, I thought that was Google Earth.

• 2:55:24Speaker 03

  No, no, the picture's a real photo. The Google Earth, though, you see that in the film.

• 2:55:28Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:55:30Speaker 03

  I can't make this up. I didn't want to put anything in the film. That was one of my things. I didn't want to put anything in the film that would make me, the whole team, or even Bob, look like we're trying to like MacGyver some, something in there. It has to be, you go look for it yourself, it's public. If you don't believe it, go check it out yourself. I, that's how, that's what was, that's the only thing we allowed in there.

• 2:55:54Speaker 00

  Right.

• 2:55:55Speaker 03

  And when you go on Papoose Lake,

• 2:56:00Speaker 03

  on June 20, so June 22nd of 2024, June of 2024, Google Earth changed. There's, you're, you're gonna be right over Papoose Lake. If you zoom in, you're, you're not gonna notice it, cuz it, it's kind of a yellowish tint to the, to the image. And I remember going, why is it so yellow? I mean, I'd been there so many times, and I was like, why, why the fuck it turned so yellow? And I'm like, I saw, I'm zooming out, and I'm like, why did they fuck it up? I thought, they fucking ruined everything, it's all yellow. And as I go further, you see this box that is like right over Papoose. So I'm like, what is that?

• 2:56:45Speaker 03

  And I put my mouse over it, and wherever you're in the box, it's June 22nd, 2024, and as soon as you put your mouse outside of the box, well, it's an older date. And I thought, oh, they just did that. And the, so I think what they thought they were gonna do is that new filter right over Papoose Lake removes every possible detail on the terrain, the landscape. Where the brushes are and the Joshua trees are, it really, really removes all that.

• 2:57:20Joe Rogan?

  It blurs it.

• 2:57:21Speaker 03

  It blurs everything out. But it makes, they made a mistake. They made a huge error, I believe so, and I think if they're listening, they're gonna go, yeah, are bad to the, to the DOD, cuz they're gonna, cuz you see all the tracks on the lake. It, for some reason, that filter accentuates the tracks on Papoose Lake and removes the landscape brushes, I don't know why, it just did that. And I was like, holy shit, you see all these tracks.

• 2:57:53Joe Rogan?

  What it looks like is they're trying to purposely obscure the area.

• 2:57:56Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 2:57:57Joe Rogan?

  And the fact that it's in a very clear box.

• 2:57:59Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:58:00Joe Rogan?

  And you talked about that in the film, and it's kinda bonkers.

• 2:58:03Speaker 00

  There's really no reason.

• 2:58:04Speaker 03

  There's no reason.

• 2:58:05Speaker 00

  To pick one little square box at a, at an hour. That nobody goes to, right?

• 2:58:11Joe Rogan?

  To try to obscure it.

• 2:58:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:58:12Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:58:13Speaker 03

  And so I thought, jeez, we gotta put this in there, I mean, it's so cool, right?

• 2:58:18Joe Rogan?

  It's all very compelling. Um, I think we should wrap this up, but, uh, the film's excellent.

• 2:58:24Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 2:58:25Joe Rogan?

  Congratulations. So you could tell, it took a tremendous amount of effort, and I could tell by watching you watch it, when we watched it together, that it had an insane impact on you.

• 2:58:34Speaker 00

  It, it really did.

• 2:58:35Joe Rogan?

  And you had already seen it before, I saw it with you, so you're just seeing it again, and it's just like, it's bonkers.

• 2:58:42Speaker 00

  Yeah, it, it really affected me, and, uh, is, is there anything else you wanna say? There's a couple things I wanna bring up.

• 2:58:51Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 2:58:51Speaker 00

  You know?

• 2:58:52Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:58:52Speaker 00

  Um, just because I've heard, stuff Luigi has told me, people think that I make millions of dollars off of this stuff.

• 2:59:00Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:59:02Speaker 00

  And I don't, I would, I would love to sign on to the millions of dollars program. Um, you know, Jeremy made, made his movie, and I didn't get a cent from Jeremy's movie. I said, anything you make, give to George. Um, you know, Luigi has spent millions of dollars of his own money, literally, right?

• 2:59:23Speaker 03

  Literally.

• 2:59:23Speaker 00

  You know, making this stuff, and I can't see how he's ever gonna make the money back if he does.

• 2:59:29Speaker 03

  I hope.

• 2:59:30Speaker 00

  That's awesome. I drive a, a nineteen eighty-something.

• 2:59:35Joe Rogan?

  Not a 1980, you drive?

• 2:59:37Speaker 00

  No, 19...

• 2:59:38Joe Rogan?

  2018?

• 2:59:39Speaker 00

  No, a 2018 Chevy Bolt electric car. I mean, it's a car you'd buy for your teenage daughter. It's embarrassing to drive. It cost me $18,000. You know, my house on the 10 acres cost 450 grand. And, you know, back when I got it. I mean, I work six to seven days a week at United Nuclear, my business. I mean, if there's anyone that wants to give me millions of dollars, please contact me immediately because I would like to retire. But no, I don't make millions of dollars off this stuff. And I... My wife and I do fine.

• 3:00:21Speaker 00

  We grow our food in our greenhouse and we live in our little place up in the mountains and that's it. But I, you know, this is Luigi's thing. That's why he's here.

• 3:00:32Joe Rogan?

  I think the film's gonna be very successful and I think you're probably gonna make money off of it. At least I'm hoping.

• 3:00:37Speaker 00

  No, he'll make money off it.

• 3:00:39Joe Rogan?

  Well, you'll make money off it. Thank you, Joe. I think we should wrap it up. Thank you very much, Luigi. Thank you, Joe. You knocked it out of the park. Thank you. It's fantastic. Bob, great to see you again, as always.

• 3:00:50Speaker 00

  I'm sorry I had to pee so much.

• 3:00:51Joe Rogan?

  That's okay. It's understandable. It's understandable. And again, the film... Let's show it on the screen, Jamie, so people can know where they could see it, when it's available. Yeah, it's available, actually, as of right now. Let's play the trailer. We'll end it with the... Yeah, let's do that. S4, The Bob Lazar Story. We'll end it with the trailer.

• 3:01:16Speaker 00

  It's on Amazon and...

• 3:01:18Joe Rogan?

  WeAreNotAlone.com.

• 3:01:19Speaker 00

  We Are Not Alone, right?

• 3:01:20Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 3:01:38Speaker 00

  Physical evidence now exists which proves that there is life elsewhere, and at least one form of that life has been here.

• 3:01:47Speaker 00

  As of 1989, that evidence was in the custody of the United States government.

• 3:01:53Speaker 00

  Between December of 1988 and April of 1989, I worked as a senior staff physicist in what has to be the most secret project in history.

• 3:02:03Speaker 00

  My job in this program was to be part of a back engineering team.

• 3:02:09Speaker 00

  This particular disk appeared to be in excellent condition, and because of its sleek appearance, I nicknamed it the "sport model."

• 3:02:18Speaker 00

  The goal in this program was to see if the technology of the disk could be duplicated with Earth materials.

• 3:02:26Speaker 00

  To start up the reactor, of course, we need some Element-115. In fact, you need 223 grams, machined into a wedge like this.

• 3:02:36Speaker 00

  The program outed us for consisted of three projects: Project Galileo, Project Sidekick, and Project Looking Glass. The file on top was Project Galileo, and as it turned out, that's the project that I was part of. And that clearly referred to reverse engineering, a recovered alien spacecraft.

• 3:03:01Speaker 00

  It just cannot be a secret from anyone, not just the American people, but the rest of the world.

• 3:03:11Joe Rogan?

  All this stuff is something that happened to him. It's not who he is.

• 3:03:18Speaker 00

  They're doing everything they can to keep this information secret.

• 3:03:26Speaker 01

  That's empirical evidence. I saw a craft do that, thanks to him.

• 3:03:32Speaker 00

  Now this story spills.

• 3:03:37Speaker 00

  And the world changed.

• 3:03:46Joe Rogan?

  Bye, guys.

• 3:03:56Joe Rogan?

  (Music)