#2460 - Rachel Wilson

Rachel Wilson is a writer, cultural commentator, and media personality. She is the author of “Occult Feminism: The Secret History of Women’s Liberation.”www.linktr.ee/RachelLWilson Perplexity: Download the app or ask Perplexity anything at https://pplx.ai/rogan. Get a free welcome kit with your first subscription of AG1 at https://drinkag1.com/joerogan Try ZipRecruiter FOR FREE at https://ziprecruiter.com/rogan Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  The Joe Rogan Experience.

• 0:05Speaker 01

  Training by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day.

• 0:12Joe Rogan?

  Hello, Rachel. What's up, Ben?

• 0:13Speaker 00

  Hello, Joe.

• 0:14Joe Rogan?

  Very nice to see you again.

• 0:15Speaker 00

  Good to see you, too.

• 0:16Joe Rogan?

  So when your husband Andrew came in here, he told me about your book, and then I talked to you, and you seemed very interesting, and you gave me a little brief synopsis of it. And so then I listened to it on audio tape, and it's fucking crazy.

• 0:29Speaker 00

  (laughing)

• 0:29Joe Rogan?

  And it is The Occult Feminism: The Secret History of Women's Liberation. You know, I didn't really have much of an opinion on feminism. My opinion was, you know, unfortunately, you run into some feminists that just seemed to not like men, for whatever reason. And, you know, there's a lot of people in this world that aren't happy with their position or station in life. But I didn't really think too much into how this all got started until I listened to your book, and I'm like, this is kind of bonkers. So before we get into your book, like, how did you decide to write about this? Like, what was your little journey?

• 1:08Speaker 00

  Oh.

• 1:09Joe Rogan?

  Or big journey?

• 1:10Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's kind of a big journey. So when I was growing up, I was like in all the advanced kid classes, and from the time I was in like kindergarten, it was just pounded into my head, like, you're going to college, you're going to have a career. You know, you're smart, and you have to do something with that. It was like, the only option that was put before me. And so I followed that path, like, all the way through school. And by the time I got done with 12 years of regular school, I realized a couple of things. One is, school is not where you go to learn things. School isn't, public school's not so great for smart people, for the most part. And that I really didn't like, like, another four years of school just sounded like hell to me. And I really just wanted to get married

• 1:54Speaker 00

  and have kids. That's kind of what I always wanted to do, much to the horror of my Marxist feminist mother, who did not like that.

• 2:02Joe Rogan?

  Oh, you were indoctrinated at an early age.

• 2:04Speaker 00

  Well, she tried. But I was the why kid. I was the kid that's just like, why? Why?

• 2:09Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:10Speaker 00

  But why? And I had, like, a Rush Limbaugh dad.

• 2:14Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 2:15Speaker 00

  Yeah, they got divorced. Shocker. Who could have seen it coming? So they got divorced when I was like nine and I had, so I grew up in like two worlds. I had like Republican business owner Rush Limbaugh dad and I had Marxist feminist crazy mom.

• 2:28Joe Rogan?

  Was the mom always Marxist feminist? And was the dad always like a Rush Limbaugh Republican?

• 2:34Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 2:35Joe Rogan?

  How did they fall in love? How did all that happen?

• 2:37Speaker 00

  They didn't. I was an accident.

• 2:39Joe Rogan?

  Oh, so they just fall in lust?

• 2:42Speaker 00

  I was like a, an oops baby and my dad said that when he saw me, he was like, well, I don't want anybody else. Right. Like this is the only thing that matters to me. So I'm going to make this work. And he tried his best.

• 2:54Joe Rogan?

  How did they even hook up with such radically different ideologies?

• 2:58Speaker 00

  I don't think they were talking about that sort of thing. When they got together, they were probably hanging out at a bar.

• 3:03Joe Rogan?

  Oh, so they didn't really know each other very well?

• 3:06Speaker 00

  Not really. No. They were kind of like, they worked in the same place and met at work and then had like a fling and then I was born. Yeah. Yeah. So I had divorced parents. Yeah. It was, it was really rough because my mother like hated my dad. She couldn't ever tell you anything he did wrong.

• 3:26Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 3:27Speaker 00

  It was just like, he's a evil, white patriarchist, bad, bad Republican man. One of my earliest memories is them fighting over the Bush-Dukakis election in 88 and like threatening to lock each other in the house so that the one couldn't cancel the other one's vote and stuff. Yeah.

• 3:45Speaker 00

  I know. Fun. It was fun.

• 3:47Joe Rogan?

  Was this before, after Kitty Dukakis drank mouthwash? Or what did she drink? She drank something like that.

• 3:52Speaker 00

  I think so.

• 3:52Joe Rogan?

  Aftershave or mouthwash to try to get drunk?

• 3:55Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 3:56Joe Rogan?

  She, the pressure of the election must have been so insane. And this is pre-social media, right? And this lady was already struggling with like alcoholism. And I think she was hospitalized for drinking something that was not a drink. Well, can you find out what that was? It was really crazy, right? Remember, do you remember that?

• 4:17Speaker 00

  I just remember that whole election being pretty nuts. Like, as far as like the Democrats versus Republicans. This was when Democrats were more like how Republicans are right now. They weren't like super insane.

• 4:28Joe Rogan?

  Dukakis tried to ride in a tank to make everybody think he was like a pro-war tough guy. Remember that?

• 4:32Speaker 00

  Yeah. Yeah, and I remember reading my lips, no new taxes and all that stuff. So like, I had this going on like as a kid. So I think my brain was already thinking about this sort of stuff from the time I was little.

• 4:45Joe Rogan?

  Rubbing alcohol.

• 4:46Speaker 00

  Ooh.

• 4:46Joe Rogan?

  Yo, that's crazy.

• 4:49Speaker 00

  Nail polish remover.

• 4:50Joe Rogan?

  Oh my god, she drank nail polish remover? Holy shit.

• 4:57Speaker 00

  She couldn't just huff paint like normal person?

• 5:00Joe Rogan?

  Very open about her struggles with alcohol and addiction to amphetamines. To reduce the stigma surrounding these issues, later detailing these experiences in her books.

• 5:09Speaker 00

  Huh.

• 5:10Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 5:11Speaker 00

  Yeah, so my parents were like ready to kill each other over that. And so they divorced right after that, they divorced. And so I'd spend time with dad and I'd spend time with mom. And I had two completely different realities and worldviews. And I think, growing up like that, you're trying to sort out what's true. You're trying to figure out like, is there any merit to what mom's saying the world is? Or any merit to what dad's saying the world is? And I think dad was more persuasive and better at pulling me his direction. Cause I never really absorbed, like, I always thought Marxism was, you know, faking gay and stupid. I just never bought into it at all.

• 5:46Joe Rogan?

  Why, at an early age, did you think that?

• 5:50Speaker 00

  Uh, because I already had seen that, you know, we're not all born equal with equal things. And some people work much harder, some people have natural gifts and talents. And to think that, cause my mother would literally say stuff in the house, like, from, you know, from each person according to their ability, to each person according to their need. And I was like, Even when I do that in class, like if there's a group project, everybody wants me on their team because I'm the smart kid who's going to do the homework. I end up doing everything and everybody else gets the A even though I did everything.

• 6:22Joe Rogan?

  And those are the people that are really into socialism, the people that half-ass stuff.

• 6:25Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 6:26Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 6:26Speaker 00

  And so like from being a little kid, I even noticed like, no, things aren't equal and things aren't always fair and it depends on, you know, your natural skills and abilities and then what you do with those things because there's lots of people, like my mother was super talented, really intelligent person, but she was so like emotionally chaotic, she never applied them to anything. She never really got anywhere or did anything. She had big dreams of what she thought she should have and never really got there because she was so like emotionally unregulated and kind of chaotic. So I just kind of saw that, no, there's not this like thing where you can just even the playing field and make it all equal for everyone. That's not how it works.

• 7:09Joe Rogan?

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• 8:11Joe Rogan?

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• 8:54Joe Rogan?

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• 9:37Joe Rogan?

  In fact, AG1 Pro contains 5 grams of creatine, high-quality, German-made, monohydrate, and that matters. This creatine is made in Germany under tight quality control and is 99.9% pure, so you're not getting some cheap version cut with fillers. If you want a high-quality supplement made with the right stuff, AG1 Pro is a no-brainer. Go to drinkag1.com/joe for a limited time, get a free immune support bundle, including a bottle of omega-3 fish oil and vitamin D tossed in with your first subscription order

• 10:15Joe Rogan?

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• 10:27Joe Rogan?

  There's also a thing that if you're locked up in something like Marxism, if that's your ideology, you're in this constant struggle with the rest of the world all the time.

• 10:38Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 10:39Joe Rogan?

  Where you want to bend it to your ideology.

• 10:41Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 10:42Joe Rogan?

  You want to change it. And so even if you're a very intelligent person, your daily mindset is struggle.

• 10:48Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 10:49Joe Rogan?

  Your daily mindset is conflict and existential crisis. Like, you know, people-

• 10:54Speaker 00

  That is exactly, that was, that was the picture that was laid in front of me.

• 10:58Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's such a trap.

• 10:59Speaker 00

  I go to dad's house and he's like, he started a business after the divorce and he's like hustling. He's working 12 to 14 hour days. He's doing everything he can to make it work. He's not complaining. He's just like, this is what you gotta do. If you want to make it, if you want to, you know, do your own thing and prove that, you know, you're good at what you do, you have to compete. You have to get out there. You have to work hard. Why complain about it? And then my mom's whole world was, she ended up being very bitter and resentful because it was like this view of, but I deserved this. That should have been me. I got robbed of it because, whatever reason. And often it was like, if I was more attractive, you know, the men at work would have given me a raise. If I looked like the other woman in the office or something, you know?

• 11:42Speaker 00

  So it was like this bitter, resentful, she was kind of like at war with the world.

• 11:47Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 11:47Speaker 00

  So seeing those two things, neither of my parents are perfect. Who is, who has perfect parents? But it was kind of like, I'd rather play over here where there's a purpose for me working hard and giving it my best shot and trying in life and figuring out what's important to me and then tailoring, you know, all my efforts toward that. And I just thought that having a family was so cool. And I wanted to have the family I didn't have. So I, I had this dream of like getting married, having kids, having an intact family and making it like a place where kids can grow up without all the screaming and yelling and chaos that I had and that a lot of kids have nowadays.

• 12:29Speaker 00

  So, um, didn't go to college. I had a full ride scholarship and I didn't go, which everybody thought was the end of the world. It was like, how could you do that? Your life is over. You'll never be anything. And I was kind of like, we'll see, you know?

• 12:44Joe Rogan?

  It is very weird that we're convinced that the only way to get educated is by an official institution with all the information that's available now. I mean, even back then, like, that's the whole premise of goodwill hunting. Like, you can get very smart from a public library. You really don't need... It's just, the books are available for everyone. The information's available for everyone if you chase it down. It's not like the only people that get any information are the ones who go to these colleges.

• 13:10Speaker 00

  It's one of the biggest lies that education, like, we can just educate everyone. The problem is, we're not educated enough. And if everyone had enough access to education, everyone would be intelligent, everyone would be thriving. It's like, the internet's kind of proved this.

• 13:25Joe Rogan?

  I had a teacher-

• 13:26Speaker 00

  It's not an information problem, right?

• 13:28Joe Rogan?

  I had a teacher in high school that said something. I don't know if this is his quote, or he was quoting someone else. But he said, "Education is something that allows you to get along without intelligence, and intelligence is something that allows you to get along without education."

• 13:41Speaker 00

  I like that. That's pretty good.

• 13:42Joe Rogan?

  And I was like, "Oh, I get it." There's, there's certain people that are just dumb at certain things. Like, I remember being around intelligent people that had no knowledge of how a car worked, of any of the workings of a car. You would tell, well, this is back in like spark plug days. You could explain to them, like, "Oh, one of the cables for your spark plug got loose. You're only firing on five cylinders. The six, the whole six is not, that's why it's like shaking like that." "Huh? Huh?" Like, if that, if it was anything else, if you're talking about the economy, if you're talking about the political process, that guy would think the other guy was a moron. But now this guy thinks he's a moron. I remember, like, being like, auto shop class, going, "There's a lot of different kinds of intelligence.

• 14:25Joe Rogan?

  We've just done this weird thing where we've categorized, like, you have to go to specific schools. You have to go to, you got to get a degree." Everybody wanted to go to Ivy League schools. I lived in Boston. It was like, very important. Did you get a higher education? You go on to make everybody proud, and they were all fucking miserable.

• 14:45Speaker 00

  Well, my dad said this to me. He was the only person that, when I graduated, I said, "I don't think I want to go to college for this. I don't think that's what I want to do." Like- Any of the things I'm looking at when I think about like having a career in that thing, I'm not very excited about it. I don't, I don't get like, ooh, hyped up to go do this. I was like, I really just kinda wanna, you know, maybe someday. But I would love to have a bunch of kids and stuff. And my dad was like, you know, a lot of the people in my office have degrees and, you know, they have careers. And some of them are very miserable people. So if you don't wanna do that, he's like, you could always decide to go later. So I was like, I'll, I kind of like bargained with everyone. I was like, I'm just gonna give it a year.

• 15:27Speaker 04

  I did that too.

• 15:28Speaker 00

  Yeah. And if it, you know, if I feel like I wanna go to college after a year of no high school, um, then I'll go, you know, I could still do it. But I ended up having a baby at 20, which again, was the end of the world. Oh my God, Rachel, your life is over. You'll never be anything. You'll never do anything. It's over for you. It's such a tragedy. It was like, treated like this horrible thing. And I thought it was great. And when I had her, the job that I had did not matter to me anymore at all. It seemed so stupid. It was like, anybody can go, I was a hairstylist at the time. Anybody can go do haircuts. Someone else can cut Debbie's hair, but only I can be her mom. I wanna do that. And everybody was telling me, you have to go back to work.

• 16:13Speaker 00

  You have to go back to work. That's what we do now. Two weeks after the baby's born, you gotta go back to work. You need the money. You need the security. You need the income. And I looked around and thought, this is insane. Like, who came up with this system? Because I'm going to go drop her off at two weeks old and let some lady who doesn't know or care about or love my baby the way that I do, take care of her all day long. You know, if you factor in the commute, it's like nine, nine and a half hours that I'm away from her. By the time I get home and feed her and give her a bath, it'll be bedtime. And that'll be it. I'll get like maybe two hours with my baby all day, you know?

• 16:53Speaker 00

  Um, and I get to pay half of what I make to this other random person to raise my child. Who came up with this? This is stupid. And I have to pay taxes. And I have to have a second vehicle and insurance and a work wardrobe. And I just thought, this is the most inefficient, stupid system. And everyone around me is like, this is, this is good. This is what we all need to do. Even like, Christian conservative women that were friends and family members were like, "Well, you don't want to depend on a man because then you're gonna get abused." They, they fear mongered me to death about staying home with my kids. And at the time, uh, this was my high school boyfriend who I had my first child with.

• 17:38Speaker 00

  Um, because I was kind of a libertarian at this stage and both my parents, at this point, my parents have multiple divorces between the two of them. And I always, I know. I always heard, "Oh, marriage is just a piece of paper. What really matters is that you love each other," and that sort of thing. And I had known this guy since we were kids. We, we'd known each other forever. We'd been together for a long time. So I thought this was great. And my goal was, let's get us to the point where I can stay home and be like a full-time mom. And he had stuff going on. It did not work out. He took off. Devastating, horrible, terrible for me. No big fights, no cheating, nothing like that. Um, you know, he's a private person, so I don't want to tell his business. But he had his own personal things going on and left.

• 18:23Speaker 00

  And it was back to, you know, I had to work and be a working mom. And I didn't like that. And I still thought that there was something wrong here, but I hadn't really like, looked into, where do we get this idea that women must be working? Like, my grandma didn't work. Bless her soul, by the way, she is gonna be turning 100 April 1st, my grandma, who's still with us. And she's probably my ace in the hole and the reason I kind of turned out normal despite my chaotic family upbringing, because she was super grounded, nice Christian lady.

• 18:55Speaker 00

  Only an eighth grade education, but she knew how to do everything. She could go back and like pluck a chicken, cook it up for dinner, can everything in the garden, preserve all the food, and she had more done by 8 a.m. than most human beings on earth. So I had like grandma as a pillar to really help me through this stuff. So shout out grandma.

• 19:14Joe Rogan?

  Which is work.

• 19:15Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 19:16Joe Rogan?

  It's housework.

• 19:17Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 19:18Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, which is like really important, like it has to get done.

• 19:21Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 19:22Joe Rogan?

  And most people think someone else should do that.

• 19:24Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 19:25Joe Rogan?

  I need to be in an office.

• 19:26Speaker 00

  Yeah, this is for wagees, like low, low-paid wagey people to do. I need to be doing something important.

• 19:32Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 19:33Speaker 00

  But I always thought she was really important. She was super important to me because when, you know, my parents were off doing whatever they were doing, I'd always get dumped at grandma's. So I spent a ton of time with her growing up. And she was full of wisdom and like I said, she knew how to do everything. Like her practical skills were crazy. She can cook anything, she can clean anything, she can can and preserve food. She grew up during the Great Depression. She was born in 1928.

• 19:56Joe Rogan?

  Oh, wow.

• 19:57Speaker 00

  Yeah, and she's, she had been through some stuff, like she'd lost her husband to cancer. She'd lost her daughter to kidney disease, like she'd been through it. So she had a lot of like good advice and wisdom. And she'd always say, I wish I was smart like you. I wish I was smart like you and I could go to school and stuff like that. But I thought, Grandma, you're the only person that knows what the hell they're doing. You're the only person in my world who

• 20:20Joe Rogan?

  Well, the grass is always greener.

• 20:22Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 20:23Joe Rogan?

  The grass is always greener, you know? When you're looking at a woman that's entering into the workforce, who's really intelligent, you start thinking, oh, she's gonna have a career.

• 20:32Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 20:33Joe Rogan?

  She's gonna be a CEO someday.

• 20:35Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 20:35Joe Rogan?

  Everyone's gonna respect her. Meanwhile, that person's on pills and suicidal and can't sleep and hates life.

• 20:42Speaker 00

  We're gonna get into that. We're gonna get into, I'm sure, like how it's turned out for women.

• 20:46Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 20:47Speaker 00

  Pushing them into the workforce, telling them they can have it all and how they're dealing with that. But I didn't, I didn't deal with it well. When I was at work, I felt like I should be at home and I was missing my kids and like I was really failing on the home front. And when I was at home, I felt like I should be giving more to work and I felt constantly torn. And that's something I hear from pretty much every woman I talk to who has kids and a job.

• 21:08Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 21:09Speaker 00

  That it's really tough, that you always feel like You're not able to give enough to each thing. You just can't spread yourself that thin all the time. And I think it's bad advice. I think we give women backwards advice. I think we tell them, spend all your fertile years, all your youth, building a career. Going to school and building a career. Then by the time you're like 30, 35, and you've got all that established, then you can think about getting married and having kids. Well, by then, you better find somebody quick and get on it because you've got a handful of years left.

• 21:42Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 21:43Speaker 00

  You know, and you might need IVF and all these other things. And a lot of women struggle. And it's one of the, it's actually, nobody wants to talk about this. This is the conversation no one's ready for. Women's access to higher education is the number one correlate around the world, regardless of economics, race, culture, status, anything, to falling birth rates.

• 22:04Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 22:05Speaker 00

  So it turns out that when you push young women, that it's education, career, education, career. Because why? Why do we tell them that? Otherwise, you're at the mercy of a man and he'll abuse you, he'll take advantage. He knows that you depend on him, so you've got to do that.

• 22:21Joe Rogan?

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• 23:06Joe Rogan?

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• 23:32Joe Rogan?

  Isn't there also a practical consideration for a lot of people? Because the cost of living is very different now than it was like, say, in the 1950s or 1960s. It's very difficult for a lot of people to get by on one income.

• 23:43Speaker 00

  Yes, it is. But have you ever asked why that is?

• 23:47Joe Rogan?

  I have, but I'd love to hear you talk about it.

• 23:50Speaker 00

  So, prior to the 1970s, we had 5% of mothers with school-aged kids working outside the home. And for all of human history, even during the Industrial Revolution, you know, 17, 18, 1900s, like you said, in the 40s and 50s, you could be a janitor and support a family and have four kids on one income. And something shifted in the 1970s, and it's never shifted back. So it can't be like how the stock market's doing, it can't really be like all these other independent economic factors that have shifted and changed and been so different over the course of the last 50 years. The one big thing that we changed is we pushed women into college and into the workforce.

• 24:34Speaker 00

  And by the 1980s, they were on par with men in workforce participation. So in the span of about 20 years, we almost doubled the labor force by pushing all the women in, and men's wages have never recovered. So now you are stuck in a two-income trap where even women who want to stay home and even dads who would love to have their wife home with their kids, it's really tough.

• 24:58Joe Rogan?

  So why did women entering the workforce keep men's wages stable? Or keep them from going up along with the inflation?

• 25:06Speaker 00

  It really fundamentally changed the economy. I have a friend named Erin Clary who wrote a book about this. It's an analysis of what he calls a female-based economy, where it's more consumer-driven. Women are like responsible for 80% of consumer spending, and now that they're all educated and in the job market, we have a lot more of things like HR departments, psychology, sociology, like the economy shifted away from being like manufacturing and production and more male-dominated things to we have all these women coming out of university, and you know, what do they get degrees in? I think 80% of psychology degrees are earned by women.

• 25:46Speaker 00

  And then despite all our efforts to push women into STEM, they're still like maybe 20% of STEM degrees. So we have all these very educated women and we have a lot of kind of fluffy jobs, like office jobs, HR jobs, social media managers. And mostly women do a lot of the same things they used to do in the home. So they're nurses, they're early childhood educators, they're retail workers, they're cooks, they're housekeepers. They're doing a lot of the stuff they used to do, which the Marxist feminists called unpaid labor, right? This is the myth of women's unpaid labor. So instead of cleaning your own house, educating your own children, cooking meals for your

• 26:29Speaker 00

  family, maybe for your parents or grandparents who can't cook for themselves, all the things we used to do for our own family, clerical work, bookkeeping for your husband's business, things like that. We're doing those things for corporations. So that, and this was kind of by design. A lot of the book is about the fact that there were people who pushed feminism and it wasn't because women were oppressed and they cared about the position of women necessarily. It's because the same people who pushed, you know, the 19th Amendment and pushed progressivism and feminism were the same people who drafted the Federal Reserve legislation, came up with the income tax, came up with the compulsory education system.

• 27:11Speaker 00

  And especially on the Marxist side, they pushed feminism because they said, if we can push mothers and women into the workforce and we double the workforce, workers of the world unite, you know what I'm saying? So it's like we have this huge workforce and through the university systems, we can kind of propagandize the young women to be socialists and to be Marxists because they kind of tend that way anyway. The way that women's brains work is very like communitarian for a reason. We're moms, you know? So it's very easy to radicalize, and this isn't my opinion. Like I go over in the book how you can just read the writings of these people and they tell you, August Babel, Alexandra Colentai, Margaret Fuller, like all these early 1800s

• 27:53Speaker 00

  writers were saying, we need to get women away from the home and away from being mothers and push them into the workplace because then we can politicize them, we can motivate them into becoming revolutionaries. And that's how we'll get the numbers to make this work.

• 28:09Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 28:10Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 28:12Speaker 00

  So now, instead of staying home with your kids and doing all these things for your family, for your community, you're doing them for a corporation. You're paying income tax, you're paying all the other taxes associated with having to work outside the home, gas tax because you're driving back and forth to work, payroll taxes, all that kind of stuff. And you are away from your kids all day. Where do they go? They go to public schools, where the public school system then can dictate to them what the values should be, how, you know, what the worldview should be instead of the parents.

• 28:47Joe Rogan?

  It just makes you wonder. Like, there's all these giant shifts in culture, and it makes you wonder, what would we look like if that had never taken place?

• 29:01Speaker 00

  Well, that's, so you asked, like, why did I start writing about this? That's why. Because I had like an aha moment where I realized feminism is far and away, like, it's not even close. It's the biggest social revolution in all of human history, and it happened in one century. We took the whole social order that was in every culture around the world for all of the rest of time that's recorded, and we flipped it upside down and completely changed it in one century. Everything about your life is different now because of feminism, in ways that you don't even think about. You know, the way that you act in the workplace, the way that legislation works, the way that school systems work, like, every

• 29:46Speaker 00

  single thing about life has changed as a downstream result of feminism and pushing this model of women's equality, which it's really not. It's really not about equality. And all you have to do is read all the first, everybody thinks first wave was just, oh, they just wanted rights, they just wanted a few rights. That was good, you know, and the average person would say, yeah, I think that that was good, but that's because they don't know the real history. And the reason they don't know the real history is because when they invented gender studies and women's studies, which were created by the Ford Foundation with some help from the Rockefellers and the Carnegie's in the late 60s. They literally rewrote the history of how women's suffrage happened.

• 30:29Speaker 00

  So there's a professor named Joseph Miller who did an examination of 12, the main 12 textbooks that are most commonly used in all the Western universities to teach women's history. And he's not even like a right-winger, he's like a liberal college professor. But when he looked and examined those 12 textbooks and compared them to the actual writings, you know, newspaper articles, writings of feminists themselves, public debates held between suffragists and anti-suffragists, all of the writings of anti-suffragist groups, which far outnumbered pro-suffragist groups, he found that they left out huge chunks of what really happened, or intentionally misrepresented what actually happened, on purpose to kind

• 31:14Speaker 00

  of sell feminism as something different than what it really was. So what did they leave out? So the most important thing they left out was that women did not want women's liberation. What? Yes, everybody assumes and believes that it was a grassroots thing, that women kind of looked around in the 19th century and they went, you know, we're oppressed, we don't have any rights, I wish I could work, I wish I could get away from my bastard husband who drinks and beats me, I need rights, I need a bank account, I need credit cards, I want to go to university. And they marched and they picketed until they had voting rights and equality in the workplace.

• 31:55Speaker 00

  That's the story everyone's heard, and it's not correct at all. It's, in fact, it's the opposite. So, this is hilarious. When the, so we had this big fight in the late 1800s between pro-suffrage groups and anti-suffrage groups. Most women in the United States and England, if they were a member of either, they far outnumbered by joining the anti-suffrage groups. They were very much against it. It was only a small minority of women who were pro-suffrage. And these groups would debate publicly, they would write pamphlets, they would write tracts. We have a really good written historical record of what actually happened.

• 32:36Speaker 00

  And women didn't want it. They thought they had a lot of great things going on already that were going to get ruined by suffrage. For example, here's some, let's do a little myth busting. People have this idea that prior to the 19th amendment, women were denied an education. Completely untrue. Some of the first universities in the United States were exclusively female universities and seminaries and secondary schools. More women actually probably had the opportunity to go than men because men always had to work in the fields, in the mines, go to war, build the infrastructure of the nation, work on railroads, you know. So women were seen as like, well, you're going to be teaching the kids, so you should probably do a little extra education. Whereas Jimmy and Billy,

• 33:21Speaker 00

  they need to work the farm with dad, you know. So there was never any law that prohibited women from higher education. What happens, what feminists do, they rely on framing. So they'll say, because there weren't co-ed universities, because it was women's universities and then men had separate ones. It was mostly segregated. They'll say, women didn't have equal access to education.

• 33:46Joe Rogan?

  Were the better schools men's schools?

• 33:48Speaker 00

  No. In fact, I'd say, so I guess you could say some. There were a handful of Ivy League institutions that didn't let women into certain programs. But it was mostly like medical stuff, things like that. And that had already changed before the passage of the 19th amendment. Women were already being let into Ivy League education, being allowed to do biology and become doctors. Many of the women in my book who were first wave suffragists had degrees, had educations. The other one is like, women weren't allowed to like leave the house. They weren't allowed to, you know, sex out of wedlock or children out of wedlock. Oh, my gosh, it was so terrible. But most of the women in my book who were

• 34:29Speaker 00

  traveling the world promoting women's suffrage had children out of wedlock, had extramarital affairs, or multiple sex partners, or were even lesbians. Open lesbians, touring the world, making money, giving speeches, writing pamphlets and tracts, raising money for the suffrage movement. Nobody put them in jail. Nobody whipped them. Was there some stigma? Sure. But...

• 34:55Speaker 00

  I don't think that you can argue that stigma against those sort of things equates to oppression of women by the patriarchy. It's always framed that way, but that's not true.

• 35:06Joe Rogan?

  So what year did they pass the 19th amendment? And the 19th amendment is what gave women that gave women the right to vote, right?

• 35:13Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 35:13Joe Rogan?

  So there were women that said, "I don't want the right to vote."

• 35:16Speaker 00

  Yes. In fact, when they-

• 35:17Joe Rogan?

  But why, why wouldn't you just want the right to vote, even keeping a traditional household, like the right to have a say if it's about the world, it's about the United States, it's about our laws and how we're going to govern? This episode is brought to you by the Apple Sports app. Guys, this is the ultimate best time of the year to be a sports fan. Football, baseball, basketball, hockey, soccer. The calendar is stacked, but it can also be hard to keep track of it all. And that is where the Apple Sports app comes into play. It is the fastest and easiest way to stay on top of all the action, with scores and play-by-play automatically showing up on your iPhone when the teams you follow are playing. That means you don't have to figure

• 36:01Joe Rogan?

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• 37:25Speaker 00

  Yeah, so I'll tell you what their reasoning was. They said, um, we're going to lose a lot of the protection and provision that we currently enjoy. So for example, in the state of New York in the 1800s, as a woman entering a marriage, if you had money, if you had an inheritance that came with you when you got married, if your husband cheated on you or left or divorced you, um, you, he couldn't take any of that. Your inheritance was protected from, you know, your husband leaving and taking it. Um, and only men could be held responsible for debt. And there was something called breadwinner laws that the courts, it was like a systemic law. It wasn't like one specific law. It was like a whole legal framework that said, look, women have to raise kids and be

• 38:10Speaker 00

  pregnant and have babies. So we have to hold men responsible for financially taking care of women and children. So women couldn't be thrown into a debtor's prison. They couldn't be held legally liable for repaying a loan or anything like that. They could own property. People don't believe that either. People believe women couldn't own anything. And the reason they say that is because once you were married, you were considered one legal entity. But even then, a married man in the state of New York in 1800 couldn't sell a property that was owned after he was married without his wife's written consent. And the court had to be assured that she was not being like coerced into it. So there were already like the anti suffragists themselves argued, we kind of have everything we want.

• 38:55Speaker 00

  You know, we, we have like most of the benefits of this, you know, they didn't call it a patriarchy, but what we would call a patriarchy. They said, we're the primary beneficiaries of this system. We have a lot of protections and if you make us equal, we're going to lose those. Like what if we get drafted? What if we have to go do jury duty and hear like the gruesome details of like murders and rapes and things like that? It's going to pit the family against each other.

• 39:21Joe Rogan?

  Just with the right to vote?

• 39:22Speaker 00

  Yeah, just with the right to vote because so.

• 39:25Joe Rogan?

  Why couldn't you keep all those things and just be able to participate?

• 39:28Speaker 00

  Well, unfortunately they were right. So one really good example is the women's temperance movement. You guys remember prohibition? That was primarily women who pushed for prohibition. It was the Women's Temperance Union. It was like a Christian movement to ban alcohol. And women didn't have the right to vote, but they got prohibition passed, which was huge. Like, it was one of those things that nobody thought was even gonna happen. And it happened largely because of their political motivation. And the reason that it worked is because they could go to Congress, or they could go to the Senate and say, "We're not a political voting bloc. We have a moral high ground from which to ask for these things." Because you can't buy our vote.

• 40:09Speaker 00

  You can't, you know, like, offer us things and kind of seduce us into voting for you based on promising us things that we want. And they didn't want to lose that because they felt like they had a lot of influence. And the things they predicted would happen, the antisuffragists said, "You're gonna see a lot of divorce. You're gonna see broken up families because it's gonna pit husband and wife against each other, just like it did with my parents, where you've got, you know, mom wants to vote for the Democrat, dad wants to vote for the Republican, or vice versa. Now they're fighting about it. They want to split. They have separate worldviews. And political interests will be used to drive a wedge between men and women and break up families. And then we're all gonna be a bunch of single moms. We're all gonna have to work."

• 40:53Speaker 00

  Like, they literally predicted this stuff. It's in, one whole chapter of the book is dedicated to their arguments.

• 41:00Joe Rogan?

  How'd they have such amazing foresight? I mean, I just would, ignorantly, I would think, "Okay, well, I think women should have the right to vote. They're human beings. They live here. There's laws that are being, like, why would that..."

• 41:12Speaker 00

  Well, I think one of the problems we have when we look back at history is the fallacy of presentism. We're looking at it through, like, our eyes now with all of the presuppositions that we have about the world kind of baked in. And at this time, so in 1920, people don't realize that men had only universally gotten the right to vote very shortly before women got it. So in the UK... Uh, most men couldn't vote until about 10 years before women got the vote in the UK. There was all kinds of restrictions on voting in the United States for men. You may have to pay a poll tax, you might have to take a test, like a literacy test or a political literacy test.

• 41:53Speaker 00

  There might be a religious requirement of some kind, there might be a racial requirement of some kind. There could be all different kinds of restrictions on men voting. You might have to be a property owner, you might have to be a certain age. So there was a lot of men, it wasn't like all men could always vote and no women could ever vote. And at the time of trying to pass suffrage, there were already a few states in the West that had granted women's suffrage, like Utah and Wyoming. And in Utah is a fun case because it was mostly settled by Mormons at the time and they were mostly polygamists. And there was this big fight between the feds and the state of Utah because the feds did not, they were like, this polygamy thing is getting really popular out there and it's gonna cause us some problems.

• 42:38Speaker 00

  And they want to give women the right to vote. And the Mormons thought, if we give women the right to vote, we can keep polygamy because they're gonna vote for it, because it's beneficial to them in whatever ways that the LDS church thought it was. The feds were betting on the fact that nah, I think if we give women the right to vote, they're gonna say no more of this polygamy, so let them have it, just let them have it. Well, the feds lost the bet and the Mormon wives kept voting for the polygamy stuff. The feds didn't like it. So what they did, there was also a little bit of stuff going on with the finances of the LDS church that was a little sus. They passed an amendment or, yeah, law through Congress in 1878, I think, I could be wrong on the date, to take away women's suffrage.

• 43:23Speaker 00

  They took the vote back from them. They said, no more voting for you, can't do that.

• 43:26Joe Rogan?

  Because you're voting for a polygamy.

• 43:27Speaker 00

  Yeah. And so, women in Utah had suffrage granted and then had it removed for 50 years. It was from, I think it was about 1870 to 1920, that they didn't have the right to vote. And the anti-suffragists, this was a big deal. So, pro-suffrage women would go to Utah and anti-suffrage women would go to Utah and they'd talk to the women and try to, because everyone's trying to get them on their side. And they kind of found that like, women really didn't want to be involved in politics. They felt like, we have so much going on at home. They were the community organizers. We don't have this anymore, by the way. I'm taking care of my grandparents. I'm taking care of my uncle who, you know, has a disease and is infirmed.

• 44:09Speaker 00

  I've got seven kids and so does my cousin and so does my sister and we all raise them kind of together. We're very busy. We're doing all the church stuff. We're teaching the kids together. Politics is just like, you have to know so much about it and you have to be so informed and we just, we don't have time. And we really don't have interest. Most of them were really indifferent, but more were either indifferent or against it than were for it by such a margin. So, this is the test. They let them vote on whether they wanted the vote in a huge, the biggest referendum was in Massachusetts. So, they let women vote on whether they wanted the vote in a referendum. Of the women that showed up, not a lot of them showed up.

• 44:49Speaker 00

  It was a fairly smallish number, but of the thousands that showed up to vote, only 4% wanted suffrage on the ballot.

• 44:58Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy.

• 44:59Speaker 00

  Only 4%. So, guess what Elizabeth Cady Stanton and Susan B. Anthony did after that? All the pro-suffrage leaders, they banned women from voting on whether they wanted to vote.

• 45:13Speaker 00

  Isn't that crazy?

• 45:15Joe Rogan?

  How did Suzie B. Anthony get involved in all this? Because she was one of those people that was like, what was she on the $2 bill or something?

• 45:22Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 45:22Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. And she was one of those people that was always held up as this like, amazing woman. And then I started listening to your book and I was like, wait, what?

• 45:31Speaker 00

  Yeah, a lot of these women like her and Elizabeth Cady Stanton were kind of the two big figureheads in America. There were a lot of other important people, but those are the two most people have heard of. They're the ones who wrote the history of women's suffrage, which is this giant like multi-volume history that they wrote. Now, they wrote it from a very biased perspective to make themselves the rock stars of this movement. They wanted to be remembered in the history books as being these awesome badass kind of revolutionary, strong, independent women. They in fact came up with the strong independent woman narrative, that women were victims who needed to be unvictimized. They had other suffragists that they were trying to cut out of the history. When they were putting

• 46:13Speaker 00

  together this history of women's suffrage, Lucy Stone was one that said, wait a minute, you guys are leaving out huge chunks of important information, like the fact that our main support comes from men, progressive men, and socialist men, and polygamist men. Like, why are you guys leaving this out? If you do, like, everyone's gonna know you just didn't mention any of that. Because at the time, it was like, super well-known. They had a lot of PR problems in the suffrage movement, because it was known as something that prostitutes, socialists, Marxists, polygamists, and revolutionaries were into. And she was like, you can't leave that out. It's like a main point. Maybe you don't like how it

• 46:57Speaker 00

  portrays us, but you gotta include it. So they like reluctantly did include some of that, but they were gonna try to leave it out altogether and frame it, as we know it now, as a fight of women against men. This fight of oppressed women against the oppressive patriarchy that was systemically trying to keep a boot on women's necks. And even their own colleagues were like, that ain't how it happened.

• 47:20Joe Rogan?

  It's crazy that progressive men were a problem even back then.

• 47:25Speaker 00

  The simp problem is-

• 47:27Joe Rogan?

  Bitch ass men have always been a problem. They're a giant problem. And that's one thing that feminism does. It gives them a way to be like, I always call them like vampire familiars.

• 47:40Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 47:40Joe Rogan?

  Like, they never really get to be a vampire, but they do all the deeds for the vampires, and the vampire loves them. And they hang around the vampire and they, you know?

• 47:47Speaker 00

  It's the sneaky fucker mating strategy.

• 47:49Joe Rogan?

  Yes, yes. What is that, cuttlefish?

• 47:52Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 47:53Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, cuttlefish do that. Like, sneaky bitch ass cuttlefish pretend they're female so they can hang around the females.

• 47:59Speaker 00

  Yep, and that's exactly what was happening. There were other motivations too, like Victoria Woodhull was a famous feminist. She was the first one to have like a big newspaper. She was known as Mrs. Satan because she was into free love. She wanted to make prostitution legal. She said that marriage was just a legal form of prostitution. She saw it to be no different than regular old, run-of-the-mill prostitution. She was like really radical. She was also a scam artist. Like, the thing I found when I was looking into the histories of all these women, they were into the occult or very anti-Christian because they saw it as patriarchal and oppressive. They were usually con artists or scammers. So spiritualism and snake oil salesman was like really big and popular at the time.

• 48:43Speaker 00

  This lady sold fake cancer cures. She was wanted in like four different states for selling fake cancer cures to dying people and scamming them out of their money. And by pushing suffered, she got a lot of people to fund her and give her money. And one of them was Cornelius Vanderbilt. And she would pretend to be able to contact the dead. She would say she could contact like ancient Greeks and all these spirits, like the spirit of Abraham Lincoln was coming to her in dreams and stuff. I don't think Cornelius believed that at all. But what he did know about her was that she did run a prostitution ring. And all her friends were hookers who worked the Wall Street gentleman. And so she basically had a spy network of prostitutes who would give her insider trading information.

• 49:29Speaker 00

  He used that to game the stock market on the first Black Friday, I think it was like 1889, for today's equivalent of $26 million, according to the New York Times. And when the New York Times interviewed him and said, "How did you do, how did you come out 26 million," at the time it was 1.3, but today's money, 26 million, "how did you pull this off when everybody else has just lost their ass?" And he said, "Do as I do, consult the spirits." So he said that this woman had contacted the dead and given him the tip that way. But it was really just, she had a prostitution ring. So these were the, these were the people

• 50:10Speaker 00

  involved, okay? And this is what they were really doing. But when gender studies departments got a hold of this history, they're not going to tell you any of this. Their job was to become the PR branch in the universities to sell Marxism and feminism to young women to revolutionize and radicalize. And they had helped doing that from the CIA.

• 50:31Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 50:32Speaker 00

  At the same time. Because we were in the midst of a Cold War. And I'm not saying communism's good. I'm definitely not. But according to the CIA at the time, they were trying to push Western liberalism as being superior to communism in Russia and the Eastern Bloc. So they thought feminism was good for that purpose. So they helped fund the beginning of Ms. Magazine. They granted scholarships. They made up like fake scholarships, one of which was given to Gloria Steinem, you know? And then they had her employed for years, going around the world pushing feminism. So it was, it was never that the average woman was like, "I want to vote. I want to listen to political debates. I want to learn about

• 51:14Speaker 00

  economics and foreign policy. I'm really concerned about these things. And I want to know and I want to vote." Women were concerned about things like having clean wa, drinking water, clean milk, safe parks, you know, less crime, all those sort of things. And one of the other things they predicted would happen, they said, "If you give women the vote and you politicize us like this..." It's all gonna be, it's not gonna be about the welfare of our children and communities anymore. It's gonna be about things like abortion and birth control. And what are the only women's issues that you ever hear about anymore in politics? The right to abortion and things like access to birth control, access to abortion. It's like the only thing you hear now.

• 52:00Speaker 00

  Where are all the women, even on the right, like, fighting for the things they were fighting for 150 years ago? Nowhere. It's all about, you know, like, even Trump, Trump frustrates me on this because he wants, he's like, "We gotta have more programs to get all the moms back to work." And I'm like, "Why? Why do you want to do that? Why do you want to push all the moms back to work? That's a terrible idea."

• 52:23Joe Rogan?

  Why do you think he's saying that?

• 52:24Speaker 00

  He's a liberal and he's a feminist. He loves hiring women. It's probably his biggest Achilles' heel if he would stop hiring women and get rid of a lot of his problems. But he loves hiring women and he's very pro-working woman. He, like, his first wife, one of the things he loved about her was she was very, like, successful in business and things like that. Ivanka, same thing. And yes, they have kids, but they have nannies and they have all the money in the world to, like, support them while they're off doing this sort of thing. But what happens to the average woman? The promise of feminism looks something like, "You're gonna have the corner office." It looks like Sex and the City. You're gonna have the corner office and you're gonna be in Paris over brunch, having champagne and, you know, signing the ink on the next deal.

• 53:09Speaker 00

  And you're gonna be doing all this exciting boss babe stuff. And then you can also have a kid and, you know, the nanny will take care of the kid while you're doing all this important stuff at work. And it's just gonna be amazing. The average woman, like me, ends up working a basic, like, I'm a retail manager. I'm a waitress, you know, I'm a school teacher. I work a nursing, a 12-hour nursing shift four nights a week. And I have to come home and take care of my kids and my family and I feel like I can't do it all. It's too much. So a lot of women just aren't even having kids anymore. I'm sure you've looked at birth rates.

• 53:44Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's kind of weird. It's weird that no one's talking about it. And there was always this narrative about overpopulation.

• 53:51Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 53:51Joe Rogan?

  And it's only been over the last decade or so that people start talking about population collapse.

• 53:55Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 53:56Joe Rogan?

  And the catastrophic impacts of that, particularly on some foreign countries like South Korea, Japan, they do not have a replacement rate.

• 54:04Speaker 00

  Right. They're gonna be, there won't be a South Korea in the near future if something radical doesn't happen over there. But this is, there's a whole nother chapter in the book dedicated to this whole thing and where this came from, the Malthusian population agenda. Margaret Sanger gave me nightmares writing the chapter about her. I literally had nightmares about her because she was so evil. It's hard to, everybody's heard what she said about black people by now. Most people have heard that.

• 54:32Joe Rogan?

  What'd she say?

• 54:33Speaker 00

  Oh, that they're the lowest of the low and we just need to get rid of them. That it would be best for humanity if we could just convince all of the lower races to just stop breeding. So Planned Parenthood, on purpose, focused on African-American and indigenous communities. And poor whites, too. But she was part of the Rockefeller Bureau for Social Hygiene. It was a eugenics program. And Planned Parenthood was a eugenics program. And she was so antinatalist. You can find clips of her on the internet now where they would interview her on the radio and she'd say, "If it were up to me, nobody would ever have babies anymore. We just would stop having them because life is terrible and life is hard and it's suffering and bringing children in the world is a terrible thing." Especially,

• 55:18Speaker 00

  she said, the most, this is a famous quote of hers, "The most kind thing a large family can do to one of its young members is to kill it."

• 55:29Speaker 00

  And her whole, her whole shtick was sold on lies. She told lies about her mother. She said that her mother died from overbreeding, that she had so many children, it just, it just destroyed her body and she died. Not true. Her mom had tuberculosis and died from tuberculosis like half of everyone back then. So she lied about that. She told a fake story about a woman named Sadie Sacks, who didn't know how she kept getting pregnant and the doctor refused to tell her because the bad male doctors just wanted the women to just keep having babies. So they refused to tell them how that worked, which I went and asked my grandma. I'm like, Grandma, you were around like in this exact time period. Did you and your mom like not know how babies remained? She was like, what are you talking about? Of course we knew that. In fact, she said after my sister was born,

• 56:14Speaker 00

  her, her younger sister was the fourth kid in the family. The doctor told my parents, like, you guys need to be careful, like time things and like try, because it's, you know, she had some health problems. And he's like, another baby might be risky. So if you want to avoid that, here's how you avoid that. She's like, of course we knew.

• 56:32Joe Rogan?

  People have known that since the beginning of time.

• 56:35Speaker 00

  Of course they have. But she wrote a whole book that purported to have thousands of letters from women around the world writing to Margaret Sanger saying, I'm only 23 and I'm on my 14th baby. I'm not kidding. She would, she, the numbers were insane. She was alleging that there were 23 year olds who were on like their 11th pregnancy and dying from over birth and that they just didn't know how to stop it. And so she was like, this is why we need abortion clinics is for this reason. Now I looked into this because there's something called the Margaret Sanger Papers Project. They have everything she's ever done. If she wiped her mouth on a napkin, they've got that in the archives. They have everything.

• 57:20Speaker 00

  Do you think out of the thousands of letters she said that she got from women saying, I just can't stop having all these babies and it's killing me and I'm miserable. How many do you think are preserved in the Margaret Sanger Papers Project?

• 57:32Joe Rogan?

  How many? Zero?

• 57:34Speaker 00

  Three.

• 57:35Joe Rogan?

  Three?

• 57:35Speaker 00

  Three, out of thousands. And I emailed them directly and I asked, Seems weird. You guys have like literally letters that she wrote to her friends. You have like all this documentation on everything she ever did. Certainly if she was getting thousands of letters, you've got more than three. And they said, "Well, we think it was mostly lost to time, or she sent them to abortion doctors to encourage them to keep going because you know, people didn't like abortion doctors. So we think she sent it to a lot of abortion doctors to like, you know, give them a pep talk. And uh, yeah, we just don't really know. It's just lost to time."

• 58:12Joe Rogan?

  So you think she made a lot of that?

• 58:13Speaker 00

  Oh, yes, yes. Especially because if you read the book, nobody reads this crap, you know? Except me, I'm crazy. Nobody else wants to read all of their horrible writing. But in the book, if you're reading these letters, they sound literally like they're all written by the same person. So it's extremely dubious at best. I would love if, hey, if the Margaret Sanger Papers Project folks want to come and tell me like where all these are, or if there's any proof of this, I would love to see it because I looked for two and a half years and couldn't find anything. In fact, the most popular Sanger biographer in the world, who like knows everything about her, admits that she lied about tons of stuff. She's like, "Oh, she lied about the Sadie Sacks story. She lied about why her mother really died.

• 58:56Speaker 00

  And she probably lied about, you know, those other stories and letters too. But she believed it was for a noble cause. She thought what she was doing was good. And the other big secret is she was getting a lot of money. She was getting paid by the Rockefeller Foundation and promoted by people like H.G. Wells, who she was also having an affair with. They're all a bunch of creepers, Joe, I'm telling you. She was, she was..."

• 59:20Joe Rogan?

  It sounded like it. She sounded like an insane person in the book.

• 59:23Speaker 00

  Yeah, she was married and had three kids. She left her kids in like hippie, bohemian communities. One of them died from neglect in one of these communities. Didn't care about her kids at all. In fact, one of her sons grew up and said, "My sister would not be dead if my mother gave any shits about us whatsoever." But she didn't. She was anywhere except where we were, any excuse to leave. She let her ex-husband take the rap for her distributing illegal, illegal stuff about abortion and birth control, that the Comstock laws didn't allow that back then. So she was wanted in court and was going to be put in jail for distributing that stuff. She let her husband take the fall for it while she went to England and had affairs with people

• 1:00:06Speaker 00

  like H.G. Wells and Havelock Ellis, and they were all bisexual and they were all occultists and doing all this crazy stuff. But people, H.G. Wells called her the most incredible woman ever to live and said that she was going to have more impact on the future of humanity than any other person.

• 1:00:24Joe Rogan?

  This episode is brought to you by ZipRecruiter. When you want to train your dog, you don't want just any rando off the streets who likes animals. You want someone with the skills to get your pet where you want them to be. Someone who can help you help them. So why wouldn't you do the same when it comes to hiring for your business? Skill-based hiring is the thing to do right now. And a good way to go about that is ZipRecruiter, especially since you can try it for free at ziprecruiter.com. ZipRecruiter can help you find the perfect match for your role. Their smart matching technology works fast to find candidates while screening questions

• 1:01:06Joe Rogan?

  help ensure you find quality talent with the skills you're looking for. It even has filters you can use to see who's been recently active on the site. Let ZipRecruiter help you find amazing candidates with the skills you seek. Four out of five employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate within the first day. And now you can try it for free at ziprecruiter.com/rogan. That's ziprecruiter.com/rogan. Meet your match on ZipRecruiter. Why do you think he thought that?

• 1:01:42Speaker 00

  Because he was a eugenicist who loved the idea of millions of abortions a year.

• 1:01:46Joe Rogan?

  H.G. Wells, the War of the Worlds guy, was a eugenicist?

• 1:01:49Speaker 00

  Yep. You should have Jay Dyer on to tell you about H.G. Wellsom. I brought you his book.

• 1:01:54Joe Rogan?

  Oh, I don't want to know. I love the War of the Worlds.

• 1:01:57Speaker 00

  He wrote some great fiction, but he was a diehard Malthusian. These people really believed. It was actually a very popular thing that we're talking like right after Darwinism. We're talking about just before the Nazis. We're talking about the Kaiser Wilhelm Foundation. It was a very popular position to be in favor of social hygiene, as they called it, which was, you know, anybody with birth defects shouldn't be able to reproduce. Anybody of the lower races or inferior mentally, any of those kind of people shouldn't reproduce because we want, you know, a cleaner, better human race going forward.

• 1:02:34Joe Rogan?

  Oof.

• 1:02:35Speaker 00

  Yeah. So feminism was instrumental in that. That's actually where the birth control pill came from as well. Margaret Sanger, the Rockefeller Foundation, the Kaiser Wilhelm Foundation, and a lot of Nazi scientists are the ones who started synthesizing human hormones to make birth control pills. And the way they sold that was they said, look, we know abortion's very unpopular. People don't like it. It's a very terrible thing that we have to do. We have to do it because we don't want all these babies. Ew. But, you know, if you let us have the birth control pill and you make it like widely available and socially acceptable, abortion will be a thing of the past. Nobody will need one ever again. That's how it was marketed and sold to the world. And it sounds right. It sounds reasonable. Maybe it's better.

• 1:03:20Speaker 00

  Maybe it's better just to prevent all the pregnancies and then we don't have to worry about abortions. But here we are in 2026. You can get abortion or you can get birth control pills for $4 at Walmart. You can go down to your local health department in your county and get them for free if you're under a certain income status. And we still have, well, at least before they overturned Roe v. Wade, we still had about a million abortions a year in this country, even with the shot and the pill and all these types of birth control and more education than we've ever had. That was the other thing when I was in school, right? More sex ed, more sex ed, and then no more teen pregnancies. That hasn't panned out whatsoever. It turns out that if you take all the stigma away from sexual activity, you tell everybody

• 1:04:05Speaker 00

  premarital sex is actually good. You gotta, you gotta get in there and figure out how things work before you get married. You don't want to just get married. That's, ew, that's weird. We still have a million abortions a year. We still have. Plan B pills and things like this. Uh, there's been more babies aborted in the last century than all the men that have been killed in all the wars of the 20th century. Like, far and away.

• 1:04:30Joe Rogan?

  Oof.

• 1:04:31Speaker 00

  Yeah. It's crazy, so.

• 1:04:33Joe Rogan?

  Um, the, the Gloria Steinem CIA thing is nuts.

• 1:04:39Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:04:40Joe Rogan?

  That's nuts.

• 1:04:41Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:04:41Joe Rogan?

  Because with the real tinfoil hat people want to think that the CIA has been involved in every single social aspect, including like the rock and roll movement of the 1960s. And there seems to be some evidence in that.

• 1:04:53Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:04:54Joe Rogan?

  And, and when you see like how far the tentacles actually go, and then you see it like in feminism, you go, wait, wha- what was, she was what?

• 1:05:06Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:05:07Joe Rogan?

  So explain her.

• 1:05:08Speaker 00

  So Gloria Steinem was recruited out of Smith College in the 50s. It was all women's college. Um, she already had some pretty like left progressive kind of feminist leanings. And this is generally how this works. If you want to know how the left has taken over academia, I have a whole paper about this on my Substack, how NGOs and universities have just swung completely left and they have just captured the university systems. They do it this way. So they recruit her out of Smith College. You know, she's writing papers about women's rights and feminism and stuff like that. And they go, she's pretty good at this. So they approach her and they say, we're willing to offer you something called the Chester Bowles Fellowship. And she goes, what's that? And they're like, well, it doesn't really exist.

• 1:05:53Speaker 00

  We made it up for you because what we're going to do is we're going to give you this fellowship. We're going to send you to India. We're going to send you to Europe. We're going to have you tour the whole United States, do a media tour, start a magazine to promote women's rights, the things that you believe in. So it's, it's a little more sneaky than everybody sitting in a dark back room and like plotting some evil plan to like, uh, make. America into a feminist hellhole. It was more like, we're trying to promote liberal democracy around the world because it's part of the Cold War. You're really good at this feminism stuff. And if we can get a lot of women voting, and if we can get them into universities and mobilize them as a political group, just similar to what they did with

• 1:06:34Speaker 00

  black people. Convince blacks that you're all oppressed, you're all victims, and radicalize them and make them permanent Democrat voters. Same thing that they did with feminism. So they sent her to India, where she worked for the Ford Foundation, again, the same people who created Gender Studies. Learned a lot of interesting things over there in India. Not sure what's going on in there. I said in my book, it's like a hotbed of like theosophy and like the Dalai Lama, and there's a lot of weird stuff going on in India. I don't know why they send everybody there. And then when they leave India, they go and promote this weird stuff. It's what they do. So they sent her to like Eastern Europe to a youth

• 1:07:16Speaker 00

  festival where she promoted feminism. And this is at the time where the Eastern Bloc is still communist and it's hard to get in there. But as a woman, this is something traditionally they always do with women. It's very easy to sneak female spies or propagandists in rather than men because they're less suspicious. You know, it's like, oh, she just wants to promote education for women. And they're like, fine, she can come, I guess, whatever. So she's promoting feminism there. Then she comes here. She's undercover at the Playboy Mansion, weirdly.

• 1:07:46Joe Rogan?

  Undercover?

• 1:07:47Speaker 00

  Yeah, she like, people didn't know she was CIA at this point. She was like a Playboy bunny for a little while.

• 1:07:52Joe Rogan?

  What?

• 1:07:53Speaker 00

  Yeah, she was at the Hugh Hefner Mansion.

• 1:07:55Joe Rogan?

  Undercover as a Playboy bunny?

• 1:07:57Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:07:58Joe Rogan?

  That's hilarious.

• 1:07:59Speaker 00

  Yeah, to promote. She was kind of hot for like back in the day, in the 70s, late 60s, she was kind of hot. Well, compared to the other feminists we had to choose from. Who else did we have? Betty Friedan?

• 1:08:10Joe Rogan?

  What is, is there any photos of Gloria Steinem at the mansion?

• 1:08:15Speaker 00

  Yeah, there's a picture of her in the bunny costume.

• 1:08:18Joe Rogan?

  Oh, we gotta see that.

• 1:08:19Speaker 00

  Yeah, maybe Jamie can pull it up.

• 1:08:22Speaker 00

  Yeah, so, um, and that was to promote the sexual liberation stuff, right? Hey, women can-

• 1:08:29Joe Rogan?

  For the CIA.

• 1:08:30Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:08:32Speaker 04

  Well, yeah, it doesn't say for the CIA here, but.

• 1:08:37Joe Rogan?

  Undercover Playboy Bunny. It's an HBO original. Wow, there's a documentary on it. That's cra- I wonder how they frame it.

• 1:08:46Speaker 04

  Yeah, this, uh, says it's for, go on about-

• 1:08:49Speaker 05

  Exploiting women and low wages.

• 1:08:52Joe Rogan?

  See, let me see the photos of her down there.

• 1:08:54Speaker 04

  Where?

• 1:08:55Joe Rogan?

  Below, where it says images. Click on one of those, where it's her. Yeah, she's pretty.

• 1:09:00Speaker 00

  Yeah, good enough.

• 1:09:02Speaker 04

  That's on her?

• 1:09:03Speaker 05

  That's Christie Alley.

• 1:09:04Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:09:04Joe Rogan?

  Oh, is that Christie Alley playing her?

• 1:09:06Speaker 04

  Must be.

• 1:09:07Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah, she played her. Glor- and that was in, for what year was that? Eighty-five. Wow. That's cra-

• 1:09:15Speaker 00

  But she did come out in her memoirs and talk about it.

• 1:09:18Joe Rogan?

  Interesting.

• 1:09:18Speaker 00

  And she also talked about-

• 1:09:19Joe Rogan?

  But did she talk about that she was working for the CIA?

• 1:09:21Speaker 00

  Yes, so she started Ms. Magazine with CIA funding. She was working with, like, Clay Felker and a couple of other-

• 1:09:28Joe Rogan?

  Is that her?

• 1:09:29Speaker 00

  No, that's not her either. She was okay. I mean, it was nothing thrilling. But it was, it was good enough to, to get her in there. And like I said, her and Betty Friedan had like this rivalry, this vicious rivalry in the press, because Friedan was a Marxist. It's all, there's always been this battle between like the, the liberal capitalist type of feminists and the Marxist type of feminists. And Betty Friedan was not attractive. She was very frumpy. She was older. Um, and the press loved Steinem because she was like stylish and cool. She had like highlights in her hair and she was kind of a hippie. So she got all the press and she started Ms. Magazine, um, which there's a whole bunch on that in my book as well.

• 1:10:08Speaker 00

  But, yeah, it was like, it was part of the Cold War. It was part of pushing like the liberal democracy stuff to contrast it against like the communist eastern bloc at the time. And it was very useful. There's extensive writing from so many people in this movement about how, hey, if you can get women, young women into universities, they're very easy to propagandize. They're very easy to program with whatever worldview you wanna give them.

• 1:10:39Speaker 00

  And if you want to make them into revolutionaries, they make excellent revolutionaries. This is why, right now, you see women in Minnesota and Portland and LA going up to ICE agents and getting in their face and calling them names and, "You got a small dick, little man? You think you're tough shit." If you're wondering, why is it women? Why are women trying to, like, fight ICE agents in the streets? It's because we send them all to college, they get indoctrinated with this Marxist feminist worldview that masculinity is toxic and bad, that men are inherently violent and oppressive, and women are inherently like Mother Nature, Earth types who bring goodness and fairness into the world, make sure everyone has enough to eat.

• 1:11:23Speaker 00

  This is the, like, false dialectic that everyone gets taught. So they see, what these women see when they see ICE arresting, even if it's a sex criminal who has warrants, they don't care. They see him as a sweet, innocent victim of the evil white patriarchy, that these are fascist Nazis coming to arrest the beautiful baby immigrants who are helpless and need protection from mommy. So they weaponize that.

• 1:11:47Joe Rogan?

  Did you see, there's a video of this guy going up to people to try to get people that ICE has deported brought back into the country? Have you seen this video?

• 1:11:58Speaker 00

  No.

• 1:11:58Joe Rogan?

  Let me send it to you, Jamie, because it's quite funny, because he's explaining how one of them, the one he wants to get back in the country, has committed five murders, but he thinks he needs a second chance, and they're 100% agreeing with him. It's like, it's one of the funniest things. It's like, you just, you see how fucking kooky people are with this stuff, that it's not like, "Oh, wow, he's a bad person." It's like, no. In their little, tiny, blinder-sided ideological bubble, anybody that gets deported should be brought in, ICE is bad, immigrants are good.

• 1:12:34Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:12:34Joe Rogan?

  And without any regard whatsoever to the consequences of bringing over murderers and rapists and drug dealers and gang members. Put your headphones on real quick, because this is kooky.

• 1:12:46Speaker 06

  Bring back illegal immigrants who were deported by ICE. We're with the Bring Them Back campaign. Could we get your signature for our petition? Just need your name and email address. Specifically, we're trying to bring back Edwin Hernandez from El Salvador.

• 1:12:58Speaker 07

  Yep.

• 1:12:59Speaker 06

  We do have to disclose to you, though, that he is an admitted member of MS-13, and he did kill five people back in El Salvador, but we think he deserves a second chance, and we want to get him back. That's him right there.

• 1:13:13Speaker 06

  What do you guys think about what's going on with ICE in this country?

• 1:13:16Speaker 07

  Oh, it's appalling, I guess. It's maybe not even a strong enough word.

• 1:13:21Speaker 06

  Appalling?

• 1:13:22Speaker 07

  Yeah, we're from Maine. There's been a lot of ICE activity in Maine.

• 1:13:26Speaker 06

  Up in Portland, right?

• 1:13:26Speaker 07

  Yeah, up in Portland. Yeah, that's where we live, yeah. So, I'm a teacher, and we... There were lots of students there. We're afraid to come to school.

• 1:13:35Speaker 06

  Thank you so much.

• 1:13:36Speaker 07

  Yes.

• 1:13:37Speaker 06

  Hopefully, we can get Edwin Hernandez back.

• 1:13:39Speaker 07

  Yep.

• 1:13:39Speaker 06

  So he doesn't have to be criminally convicted in El Salvador, right?

• 1:13:43Speaker 07

  Yes. All right.

• 1:13:44Speaker 06

  Thank you so much. Thank you.

• 1:13:45Joe Rogan?

  Good work. Good work. Good work. Bring that murderer back. Who is he? MS-13 gang member who's killed five people? Yeah, bring him back. It's football season, and Uber Eats is delivering deals every game day. This week, buy a four-piece signature chicken from Popeyes and get another one free on Uber Eats. When your watch party gets hungry, order in and keep everyone's attention where it matters on the game. Order a four-piece signature chicken from Popeyes and get another one free. No matter who scores big tonight, you'll score great deals on Uber Eats all season long, because it's not football without food. Popeyes offer, valid through November 1st.

• 1:14:27Joe Rogan?

  Add eligible menu item to order prior to checkout. Taxes, fees, and terms apply. Product availability varies by region. Exclusions may apply. See app for details. This episode is brought to you by the Mosquito Bowl. Here's a story that's pretty incredible. After Pearl Harbor, four of the best college football players in America walk away from promising NFL careers to enlist in the Marines and fight in World War II. The craziest part, it's a true story. These guys had their whole lives ahead of them, but traded the glory of the gridiron for the brutal reality of combat, where the stakes were life and death.

• 1:15:07Joe Rogan?

  Directed by Peter Berg, the guy behind Friday Night Lights, and starring Nicholas Galitzine, Bill Skarsgård, Ray Nicholson, and Tom Francis. The Mosquito Bowl, now playing in theaters.

• 1:15:21Speaker 00

  The perfect, she's the perfect example. She's a schoolteacher. What schoolteacher do you know who's not liberal? Very few.

• 1:15:28Joe Rogan?

  Very few.

• 1:15:29Speaker 00

  And most of K through 12 is female teachers. By the time you get to high school, there's a few more, but I think it's like 80, 90% of schoolteachers are women. So they go to university, they go for education, and they almost inevitably end up getting some kind of women's studies course thrown in there. And so they're taught this worldview that white men are evil and oppressive to women, to minorities, to poor people. So they see Edwin Hernandez, whatever his name, well, sure, he murdered five people, but he wouldn't have done that if he wasn't poor and oppressed by the evil white patriarchy. It's not fair. And so she wants to protect him. And she said, there's kids who are afraid to come to school. You know, the kids are afraid.

• 1:16:12Speaker 00

  It's just like the Democrats last night with their little reply to Trump's State of the Union, where they said the same thing. Oh, if you've been trying to protect your neighbors from the Gestapo who's coming to arrest them, we understand how stressful that is. They just create this completely false narrative. That's not how the world really works. Ask the average, like, white man out there who he's oppressing, because most of them are just working hard as, you know, Amazon delivery drivers, or plumbers, or sewage workers, or something like that. The average white man has never had like this incredible amount of power. It's all framing. The minute you take away and destroy the framing that everyone accepts, this all falls apart, which is why I wrote the book.

• 1:16:54Speaker 00

  Because I'm like, if women knew, specifically, women like me, this is supposed to be for us. This whole movement was supposed to be for me and my daughters to liberate us. And I was like, okay, from what?

• 1:17:10Speaker 00

  From the people who have the best interest in protecting me, my father, my husband, my brother, the men around me, in order to believe the feminist narrative that men have systemically just always wanted to keep women down and oppress them, you'd have to believe that they didn't care about their mothers, their daughters, their sisters, their grandmothers, their neighbor lady, just, just all the men wanted to just systemically oppress the women so that they could have free maids and, you know, sex-bought women at home. There was a ton of propaganda in the 70s as well about this. Remember the Stepford Wives movie?

• 1:17:45Speaker 08

  Uh huh.

• 1:17:46Speaker 00

  Where it was revealed in the movie plot that like, all the evil men in this nice suburban neighborhood full of white people, they all had sex-bought wives. They didn't want their real wives. They wanted a mindless sex bot that cleaned the house and baked casseroles. And this was supposed to imply that this is why men are oppressing you. They don't want you to have a brain. They don't want you to have input. They don't want to hear your thoughts on things or have you be a real person. They just want you to serve them. You know what I mean? That's not how life is. Life's a lot more complicated than that. But when you fill the university systems with this, and then you fill the

• 1:18:25Speaker 00

  workplace with it, we've got HR, we've got Me Too, we've got all these systems in place now that actually promote feminism. It's far and away the dominant social aspect of the culture. Look at every female celebrity, every single one of them. Think of the top ones like Kylie Jenner, Taylor Swift, Beyonce, Katy Perry, any of the really popular female pop culture, they're all girl boss, sexual liberation, shitting on your ex-boyfriend, men ain't shit. I'm going to dominate him with my, you know, sexy physique and my sexual prowess. And it turns out that a lot of the ancient goddess worship, which was really

• 1:19:10Speaker 00

  popular with feminists in the 70s, there was a huge revival of that, a lot of the... Goddess archetypes that they brought back had those same themes. Like the goddess Kali, who's a Hindu goddess with eight arms and blue skin and a tongue hanging out of her mouth and all of her depictions in Hinduism. They, the feminists chose that and put it on the cover of the first issue of Ms. Magazine in 1973. That seems like a weird choice if you're trying to get suburban moms in 1973 to buy your magazine, to put this blue-skinned terrifying Hindu goddess on the cover. So why did they do that? Well, because they had her holding an iron and a baby and like all these domestic things, right?

• 1:19:52Speaker 00

  And the goddess Kali symbolizes at least to feminists vengeance against men, taking back power from men and having your revenge on them because that goddess only accepts male sacrifice, male human sacrifice, especially on the battlefield. She like drinks the blood of deceased male warriors. Yeah. Very, and she's intentionally terrifying and she's supposed to like symbolize this.

• 1:20:16Joe Rogan?

  Let me see what she looks like, Jamie.

• 1:20:18Speaker 00

  Yeah. If you pull up that, that-

• 1:20:19Joe Rogan?

  Just put up-

• 1:20:20Speaker 00

  The Ms. Magazine one.

• 1:20:21Joe Rogan?

  The actual goddess Kali. There it is.

• 1:20:26Speaker 00

  Women tell the truth about their abortions. On raising kids without sex roles. 1973, I think.

• 1:20:33Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:20:34Speaker 00

  Yep. On the housewife's moment of truth. This was the huge propaganda campaign to convince women that staying home and raising your own kids is actually horrific oppression and it's abuse and you're enslaved. You want to be at work, working for your boss. You want to be paying those taxes. You want to, don't submit to your husband, submit to your boss, though.

• 1:20:57Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:20:58Speaker 00

  That's fine, but-

• 1:21:00Joe Rogan?

  Or become the boss.

• 1:21:01Speaker 00

  Yeah, or become the boss, which, again, we've had 50 years of trying to push women to be the boss and guess what? They really don't want to. And this is what I always say-

• 1:21:09Joe Rogan?

  Some of them do, though.

• 1:21:11Speaker 00

  Some of them do, that's true.

• 1:21:12Joe Rogan?

  They're not a lot of fun.

• 1:21:14Speaker 00

  They're not. I would say there's always been like 5% of women who are genuine outliers, who are really not cut out for motherhood, who can go out there and crush it, who are gonna do something else. Historically, usually it was like, maybe you would become a monastic like a nun or something. Maybe you would run a boarding school or a tavern. Like, women have owned businesses and done other things in almost every culture.

• 1:21:36Joe Rogan?

  But you should be free to do that. The issue is like, are we indoctrinating people into a very specific ideology in schools and universities?

• 1:21:44Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:21:45Joe Rogan?

  And is that why they're going to something that really, maybe they're not that outlier, and they wouldn't really be interested in it? You know, I was talking the other day about this video that I saw on Instagram a while back, where there was this woman, she was talking about how, when she was in college, she was dating this guy who was a Christian, and he wanted a traditional family, and he's like, "I'll take care of you and I'll raise our kids." And she goes, "I didn't want that. I wanted to go out there in the world. So I got my education, and I got the job, and I'm doing the thing that I want to do, and I don't want it." She goes, "I don't..." And she was crying. She was like, "I don't want it." She goes, "Like, this is not what I want. I'm not happy, and I fucked up."

• 1:22:27Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:22:28Joe Rogan?

  And it's this crazy video. You're like, how many people silently feel like that?

• 1:22:33Speaker 00

  Yeah. Well, the truth is that since this book came out a few years ago, I've paid a pretty high personal cost for putting this information out there. And in the first chapter, I say, "Look, I'm just gonna present to you the actual facts about the history and what really happened, because I think it's for you women to decide. This is supposed to be for you. I want you guys to look at what really happened and the results of that." And the whole last chapter is like a ton of statistics about, "Where are we now after 50 years of this being the super dominant thing?" It's not great. It's not great. But I was like, I want women to have the ability to look at it truthfully for themselves and decide what they think. And I have been slandered. I have been.

• 1:23:17Speaker 00

  The things that have been said about me, the lies and the gossip that have been spread like online, calling me everything under the sun, just wild, crazy rumors about my personal life that are not true.

• 1:23:29Joe Rogan?

  But that's gonna happen to anybody that's in the public that says anything controversial.

• 1:23:33Speaker 00

  I'm kind of seen as somebody betraying the sisterhood, right? Because we're so programmed that it's like the knee jerk reaction from women oftentimes. But I get hundreds now, emails, DMs, letters in the mail even, to our P O. Box from women. Like, one was a lady who was like, I'm 60 years old. I'm sitting here reading your book, and it's covered with tears because I fell for this shit. Now I'm 60 years old. I have no husband. I have no kids. I have a shitty job that I hate. I'm gonna die alone. And I can't go back and change any of it. What do I do?

• 1:24:08Joe Rogan?

  Do you know who's upset about it too? The lady who created Sex and the City.

• 1:24:13Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:24:14Joe Rogan?

  Did you see that?

• 1:24:14Speaker 00

  She's a gem. Yes, there's like a little, a video about that, isn't there? Where, um,

• 1:24:20Joe Rogan?

  She's talking about she's alone.

• 1:24:22Speaker 00

  She said that she regrets having ever made that.

• 1:24:24Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Isn't that crazy? Because how many women saw that and like, I'm gonna be that boss girl?

• 1:24:28Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:24:29Joe Rogan?

  I'm gonna be that. What was the one lady that fucked everybody? The hot blonde lady?

• 1:24:34Joe Rogan?

  Jamie, you know. You're a giant. Aren't you a giant fan of Sex and the City?

• 1:24:37Speaker 05

  No, but that's the character's name. About, character or actor?

• 1:24:41Joe Rogan?

  Both.

• 1:24:41Speaker 05

  Samantha's the character.

• 1:24:43Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:24:44Joe Rogan?

  That lady, she was in all the, like, 80s hot.

• 1:24:47Speaker 00

  Kim Cattrall.

• 1:24:47Joe Rogan?

  That's it.

• 1:24:48Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:24:48Joe Rogan?

  Super hot.

• 1:24:48Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:24:49Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. And it was like, I'm gonna be like her.

• 1:24:50Speaker 00

  I'm gonna be a Samantha. Yeah, I know.

• 1:24:52Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:53Speaker 00

  Well, I mean, it was pushed on me really hard. And I was told, I was told, you're like a loser. I'll never forget this. It was like, maybe 12 years ago, somebody from the RNC that I was arguing with online about this, she told me, you should be ashamed of yourself. You are not a proper conservative woman, and you are not contributing to the movement by staying home with your kids. And I said, really? How's that? She goes, what about the GDP?

• 1:25:19Speaker 00

  The GDP? She's like, "If you were a real Republican, you'd be out there working and contributing to the GDP." And I was like, "You're right." Raising five children and trying to make them the best human beings I can, I can help them be. Who wants to do that? I should get out there and work for a corporation.

• 1:25:40Joe Rogan?

  The GDP was her argument?

• 1:25:42Speaker 00

  Yeah, and that's... I debate feminists all the time. Online. I'm pretty undefeated if anybody wants a piece.

• 1:25:49Joe Rogan?

  Well, here's the thing about liberals online. I was just talking to Andrew about this.

• 1:25:53Speaker 05

  She said that was incorrect, the take on her.

• 1:25:55Joe Rogan?

  The opposite is true. I've never regretted not having children. I feel compelled to have a career since I was a child. But who's judging? Not me. Read all about it in my new book. But I thought, so why does it say here? Sex and the City writer Candace Bushnell 60 admits she regrets choosing a career over having children as she is now truly alone.

• 1:26:14Speaker 00

  I don't know, and then there's a link.

• 1:26:15Speaker 05

  I would imagine she was selling a book and they're taking something out to get some headlines.

• 1:26:19Joe Rogan?

  This is the Daily Mail, though. The Daily Mail's a little sus, right?

• 1:26:24Speaker 00

  It's pretty.

• 1:26:24Joe Rogan?

  Click on that, highlight that and click on that article, that Daily Mail article. Like, do they quote her?

• 1:26:30Speaker 00

  Even if it's...

• 1:26:30Joe Rogan?

  So just the word says there via Daily Mail? Oh, here it is.

• 1:26:33Speaker 00

  There's definitely plenty of other women who push this stuff.

• 1:26:36Joe Rogan?

  100%.

• 1:26:37Speaker 00

  Who say they regret it.

• 1:26:37Joe Rogan?

  But I wonder, like, how are they able to say that she regrets this? If she doesn't, if there's no quote attached to it? So what does it say here? "The one I got divorced, I was in my 50s, started to see the impact of not having children and being truly alone."

• 1:26:51Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 1:26:51Joe Rogan?

  "I do see that people with children have an anchor in a way that people who have no kids don't." Okay. And what does it say below that? Anymore? Does she elaborate? She explained that she didn't feel like dating in her 2000, after her 2012 divorce. Ballet dancer, duh duh duh. She married a ballet dancer. Red flag!

• 1:27:10Speaker 05

  This was a headline going around for a while, but...

• 1:27:13Joe Rogan?

  Sorry, male ballet dancers, I'm just kidding. "It's not that long to get to my age. I know women who have gone longer." Uh, that was it? That was the entire quote? Yeah, I was just looking her up.

• 1:27:25Speaker 00

  Well, I can see why they took it that way then, but maybe she's saying overall she still thinks it was better to go after a career.

• 1:27:32Joe Rogan?

  Or maybe she's just gaslighting everybody to sell a book.

• 1:27:34Speaker 00

  Could be.

• 1:27:35Joe Rogan?

  Maybe she's like, you want to sell that book, you better be like on the go-go boss girl train.

• 1:27:42Speaker 00

  I suppose so. But like you asked, you asked me like, is, do women really want to be in the workplace? Or are they only kind of really choosing the girl boss stuff?

• 1:27:50Joe Rogan?

  That's a giant generalization anyway.

• 1:27:51Speaker 00

  Right, of course it is.

• 1:27:53Joe Rogan?

  Obviously, some women do and some women don't. And there's a lot of women who naturally, maternally want to have children, want to have a family.

• 1:27:59Speaker 00

  Well.

• 1:27:59Joe Rogan?

  And then it's also finding a guy that you can trust, that you care about, and you think is going to stick with you. And he's really going to be invested in this whole thing.

• 1:28:07Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:28:08Joe Rogan?

  And someone who's like a solid man, who's not going to become an alcoholic and lose his job and fall apart, then you're fucked.

• 1:28:14Speaker 00

  That's what happened to me.

• 1:28:15Joe Rogan?

  That can happen to anybody.

• 1:28:17Speaker 00

  But, that aside, for just a moment, Simone de Beauvoir, arguably the biggest feminist of second wave, the French intellectual who was buddies with Jean-Paul Sartre. And they got in trouble for grooming underage kids and seducing them and all kinds of crazy stuff. But she's respected as the greatest feminist intellectual of the 20th century. And she was super influential. And in a 1970s interview with Betty Friedan, she said, "I don't believe that society should give women the opportunity or the choice to stay home and be mothers. Because if we do, they're all going to pick that. And I don't think it should be an option."

• 1:28:54Joe Rogan?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 1:28:56Speaker 00

  It was the view of the feminists that, yeah, and Susan B. Anthony and Elizabeth Cady Stanton said that. They said, "We would have never passed suffrage had it not been for men. If it was ever left up to women alone, we would have never passed suffrage. They would have never gone for it. They don't want liberation." Now, of course, from their view, they're like, well, it's because they're oppressed and they don't know that they hate their solid, their slavery yet. They just haven't realized how oppressed they are. And if they could see it, you know. For what it is, they wouldn't like it, but we couldn't convince them for 100 years. We had to convince the men that it would, don't you want your daughters to like have their own money and this and that? So the feminists themselves say, women didn't want it.

• 1:29:39Speaker 00

  If we ever left it up to women, they wouldn't have ever chosen it, like at least not as a whole. Sure, there would always have been a minority, but I would argue that the minority of women who fought for that were the ones that the status quo historically of get yourself a good man, have a family, stay home, it doesn't work for them. So like a lot of them, there's a book about this. Edward Dutton wrote a book about witches, feminism in the fall of the West, where he says traditionally like women, the archetype of the witch being ugly and haggard and living on the outside of town. It's kind of historically accurate. Most of the feminists, like, have you ever seen a picture of Susan B. Anthony?

• 1:30:19Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 1:30:19Speaker 00

  For example?

• 1:30:20Joe Rogan?

  I have not.

• 1:30:22Speaker 00

  She is aesthetically challenged, we'll say that. So was Betty Friedan, so are a lot of these women, not all, but a lot of them are.

• 1:30:30Joe Rogan?

  And a lot of men were not really interested in them.

• 1:30:32Speaker 00

  I think they look at the system and they go, well, this isn't fair to me. You know, I'm smart, I can do other thi- I'm just a baby factory. The amount of women who have called me a baby factory is pretty insane because I have five kids.

• 1:30:44Joe Rogan?

  Well, they're not fun women.

• 1:30:45Speaker 00

  No, they're not fun women. But they'll be like, I don't want to be you, you're just a baby factory.

• 1:30:49Joe Rogan?

  It's like the same kind of men that call me toxic male.

• 1:30:53Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:30:54Joe Rogan?

  You know, it's just.

• 1:30:55Speaker 00

  How dare you be a successful masculine archetype of a man?

• 1:31:00Joe Rogan?

  You're not allowed to lift weights.

• 1:31:01Speaker 00

  Right, it's very threatening to people. Well, in some ways, I'm the weirdest person to be here talking about this because I grew up a tomboy and I have a lot of, like, people use this against me. They're like, oh, you're actually really masculine for a woman. You may not always look super masculine.

• 1:31:16Joe Rogan?

  Well, you're really into firearms.

• 1:31:17Speaker 00

  I'm really, I'm a firearms instructor. I love weightlifting. I'm like an OG meathead. I love bodybuilding. I did powerlifting for years. I grew up on farms, playing in the mud with the other boys in the neighborhood. That's what I liked to do. But I think that when you grow up like that as a woman, you realize, like, I'm really strong for a woman. I can deadlift 250 pounds for sets of five. But the guy next to me who has never trained in his life can do that, too. Right. And you give him six months in the gym and he's gonna blow past me. You know, you just, you have a more realistic understanding of how that works. And I think that in the modern era, all the feminist side debate, they live in this world that we're

• 1:31:59Speaker 00

  sitting in this studio right now and all this wonderful stuff that allows me to be here talking to you and talking to all the folks that are watching, the microphone, the technology, everything was built by men. You'll hear the Hedy Lamarr thing that she came up with Wi-Fi. Wi-Fi. No, it's not true. Really? No, it's not true. What do you mean? She worked with a man on a precursor to it, but it wasn't her. It wasn't like she by her. I think so. I think they actually were. I think it was one of her boyfriends. I could be wrong on that, but no, if you like, even if you just ask Grok, is that really true? And it's like, ah, well, a little bit, but not really. Right. But far and away, men are the builders and maintainers of infrastructure and technology.

• 1:32:44Speaker 00

  And they always will be, because the truth is, women have had 100 years to get into that stuff and they just don't really want to. They'd rather be interior designers, or psychologists, or things that are, you know, about people and social dynamics and, you know. Aesthetics. Aesthetics and stuff like that. I'm that way, too. I have like a really strong intellectual, logical side. I love debating and all that kind of stuff. But I also love smelling babies' heads and dressing them in cute little outfits and, you know, I love glitter and sparkly things, so it is what it is. Women don't want to go be men. Right. That's what we're finding out after 100 years of this, is that when you make women be men, they hate it. Like that lady that tried to be a man?

• 1:33:26Speaker 00

  Have you heard of that story where the woman tried to pose as a man for like a year and she ended up deleting herself, I think? Oh. Because it was so horrible, like it was so awful. She was like, "Life as a man is awful. It's tough, it's hard. Nobody cares about your feelings, nobody's coming to rescue you." And I think women, growing up in this era... They don't think about when they turn on the light switch in the morning, how that happens. When they get in their car and drive to work, they don't think about who built the road they're driving on, who built the cars or designed them, or who changes their oil is all men. When they flush the toilet, they don't think about, hey, if that toilet backs up or the sewage, you know, the sewer treatment plant has a problem, it's going to be men that go in and fix it. If there's a hurricane or an ice storm,

• 1:34:10Speaker 00

  who's going to be back out in the dangerous weather trying to rescue people and get the power back on? It's going to be men. I'm waiting for the feminists to come and rescue all the people from the floodwaters and to put the power lines back up after the tornadoes come through. So far, they have not appeared. They haven't shown up to do the dirty, dangerous, and difficult jobs that men do. And I'll believe them that what they want is equality when they start signing up for those jobs.

• 1:34:37Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's just such a bizarre perspective to think that it's not a huge task to raise children.

• 1:34:45Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:34:45Joe Rogan?

  And to care for them and communicate with them and see to their emotional needs and help them solve things and figure things out and help them with their schoolwork and just normal stuff that is so crucial to the development of a child.

• 1:35:01Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:35:01Joe Rogan?

  And we've somehow, because there's no monetary, you can't like put a number on that, like what, how valuable it is. It's not valuable. If it's not bringing in money, if it's not contributing to the GDP.

• 1:35:14Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:35:14Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. This episode is brought to you by Squarespace. If you're thinking about building a website, you should try Squarespace. I know because I use it. That's right. JoeRogan.com is powered by Squarespace. It has all the features that you need to create a standout website, like an AI-enhanced website builder, SEO optimization tools, and seamless checkouts with mobile pay links. Head to Squarespace.com/Rogan for a free trial. And when you are ready to launch, use the offer code ROGEN to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain.

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• 1:36:22Speaker 00

  That whole myth of women's unpaid labor, I'm glad you brought that up. I just finished a huge project that I'm working on with Andrew, my excellent handsome husband, and Steven Crowder, Dr. David Patrick Harry, and Rob Noor, who's a champion debater. We put together a feminist debate course that's coming out really soon. I think this week, I think it drops this week. And we go over all these myths and debunk them. And we tell, we show people and demonstrate like how to debate this feminism thing. Because it's a leviathan, it's a beast. If you take it on, like, one of the reasons I'm out here doing it is because when men try to argue against feminism or feminists, they immediately get slapped with, "You're a misogynist, you hate women, you're an incel," all the tropes.

• 1:37:07Speaker 00

  "You have a small dick, what are you, gay?" Like, just all the insults, right? Well, when I sit in front of them and make those arguments, you can't really just get away with that. You have to contend with them because I'm a woman. I mean, you could try to insult me, but it's not going to land the same as when you do that to a man. So we put together this course to try to help people deconstruct the framing that's been built, question all the founding axioms that feminism was this good, necessary grassroots thing, that it's good for women, that if it ever went away, all the women would be chained to the stove in servitude, not allowed to learn how to read or drive a car. When you hear about like women's oppression in the Middle East, that's a result of Islam. In Christendom, that was never a thing.

• 1:37:51Speaker 00

  Like, even in like ancient Christianity was one of the first places that women were really seen as full human beings. And a lot of it's because of the Theotokos, the mother of God, the Virgin Mary, being the ark of the new covenant that brought Christ into the world for man's salvation. She was even asked by an angel, and she said, "Let it be so."

• 1:38:12Joe Rogan?

  Which is so bizarre that modern feminist women support Islam.

• 1:38:16Speaker 00

  Yes, and they hate. Christianity and they hate the Virgin Mary. They don't like her being an archetype of virginity and motherhood, you know, and strength and men's salvation. They don't like that. But they'll support Islam all day long. That's fine.

• 1:38:33Joe Rogan?

  It's so strange. It's so strange that it worked. It's so strange that something that goes against actual human nature somehow or another became the prevailing ideology amongst liberal women.

• 1:38:48Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 1:38:49Joe Rogan?

  The occult aspect of it was very shocking.

• 1:38:53Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:38:54Joe Rogan?

  It was very weird.

• 1:38:54Speaker 00

  It was very shocking to me.

• 1:38:56Joe Rogan?

  You didn't know.

• 1:38:56Speaker 00

  When I started researching to put together the book, I thought it was going to be mostly about the funding of the feminist movement, the Jekyll Island Club, being the same guys that like went to the Jekyll Island in secret and put together the income tax and the Federal Reserve and then compulsory education system. I thought it would be mostly about that and the fact that women never wanted it, that women weren't the ones that just came together and demanded it. And then I started researching all the like popular figureheads and really reading their stuff because I was like, this is a very unpopular, I'm making pretty intense claims here. So I really have to be able to back it up and I better make sure I'm correct and I better make sure I'm accurate because whenever you're challenging a narrative this big,

• 1:39:41Speaker 00

  everyone's going to go through with a fine tooth comb and try to see where I'm wrong or see if I'm lying or see if I'm twisting things. So I did two and a half years of just reading feminist literature.

• 1:39:54Speaker 00

  It was rough, but I got through it. And what I found was, holy moly, most of these women, almost all, but certainly most, were into spiritualism, which was like a big 1800s movement of like trying to do seances and contact the dead and things like that. Theosophy, which combines like Eastern occult practices with like other Western traditions, ancient goddess worship. New Age stuff and even Satanism and Luciferianism. In fact, in my book, I cite a book that's a PhD thesis by a professor from Norway. His name's Per Faxneld. I don't know if that's the way you pronounce it, but that's how it's spelled.

• 1:40:38Speaker 00

  P E R. It's called Satanic Feminism, his book. And now he himself is a Satanist. He's a Luciferian himself. So he sees it as a good thing that the women of the 19th century openly declared Lucifer as their liberator and the mascot of their movement. Now, you would look back and think these were Christian women because they were in like New England and stuff in the United States, Puritan communities and things like this. But they weren't. In fact, Elizabeth Cady Stanton and a bunch of her friends wrote something called The Woman's Bible in 1895, where they rewrote the Bible from a feminist perspective and took out the things that they thought were oppressive and patriarchal.

• 1:41:23Speaker 00

  And in the intro, Stanton herself says, I think her husband was a preacher, maybe, or really involved with the church at the time. But she said, I don't believe that any man has ever heard anything from God. I don't believe the Bible is divinely inspired. I think all of Christianity was made up specifically by men to oppress women. That's my personal belief. She was more of like a proto-New Agers. She believed in like this monism stuff. And she said, if I could-

• 1:41:50Joe Rogan?

  Monism?

• 1:41:51Speaker 00

  Yeah, monism is like the kind of a lot of the New Age, or even some of the DMT bros will kind of come to this conclusion that there's like a one that we have to return to, like, we're all one and we're all God and we forgot that we need to return to the

• 1:42:04Joe Rogan?

  We're all God?

• 1:42:05Speaker 00

  Yeah, we're all, we're all God.

• 1:42:07Joe Rogan?

  I've heard that one before.

• 1:42:08Speaker 00

  Yeah, and we gotta return to the one. And they were writing about this stuff in like the early 1800s as like transgenderism, gender abolition, gender as a spectrum was being written about by Margaret Fuller in the 1840s in America. And she said, we're never going to return to the one. As long as we have this gender division. So in the future, I'm envisioning a future with no gender. There's no men and women anymore. And she said, nobody's really born a man or a woman. You're either, you're on this spectrum and some people are more on the male side and some people are more on the female, but nobody is like fully one or the other. It's a spectrum.

• 1:42:46Joe Rogan?

  I had that argument once with a guy who was a professor. It was one of the dumbest conversations I've ever had on this podcast. And I eventually had to say to him, if you go buy a puppy and it's a boy puppy, but you wanted a girl puppy, do you say that there is no gender? What do you do?

• 1:43:03Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:43:04Joe Rogan?

  Like, what do you do? Like, what are we talking about here? You're saying that some men don't exist? That men aren't real? That women aren't real? That no one is a man and no one is a woman? Like, that's crazy. How did you get here? You got here because someone with an XY chromosome had sex with someone with an XX chromosome and that's how it works. It's like a biological definition based on objective reality.

• 1:43:27Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:43:28Joe Rogan?

  Like, we all know that, but there's this weird fucking dance and that dance, if you keep just asking questions, like, why is that dance? What are you doing? Like, why are you saying that? Like, what does that mean? Well, what about this and what about that? It just falls apart. But yet, they have this weird resistance to facts.

• 1:43:45Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:43:46Joe Rogan?

  Very strange.

• 1:43:46Speaker 00

  Well, this is why the occult was so appealing to these people and why, so like, feminists are drawn to the occult and occultists are drawn to feminism because in most occult traditions, there is this idea of gender bending and gender fluidity and transcending gender.

• 1:44:03Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:44:04Speaker 00

  In order to transcend to something higher, to become the stars again, or to become part of the one monad. So I'm reading all their backgrounds and they're all writing about this stuff. Many of them claimed to be automatic writers, so they would write a book about feminism and say, it's not coming from me, it's coming from this entity that is speaking through me.

• 1:44:25Joe Rogan?

  Oh, like Seth speaks? Yeah, like that kind of stuff.

• 1:44:27Speaker 00

  So they would do that. They, like Victoria Woodhull would claim to be able to contact the dead. Or they would just say, this Christianity stuff is only here to oppress women. Lucifer was the good guy. Kind of the Promethean myth of like, actually, he was the good one because he enlightened us and gave us, you know, free will and.

• 1:44:46Joe Rogan?

  Luciferianism is very strange. Because you look at the definition of Luciferianism, you think, oh, they're going to say someone who believes that the devil

• 1:44:54Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:44:55Joe Rogan?

  is God. But it's not quite that. Like, pull, please pull up, pull up perplexity, our wonderful AI sponsor, and ask it, what is the definition of Luciferianism? Because I, when I went down this rabbit hole with your book, I looked this up. So it's very strange. Diverse belief system, by the way, that's a weird way to say it, diverse belief system.

• 1:45:17Speaker 00

  Uh huh.

• 1:45:17Joe Rogan?

  That reveres Lucifer not as the Christian devil, but as a symbol or deity of enlightenment, knowledge and human potential.

• 1:45:25Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:45:26Joe Rogan?

  Lucifer.

• 1:45:27Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:45:28Joe Rogan?

  Fucking Satan.

• 1:45:29Speaker 00

  Uh huh.

• 1:45:29Joe Rogan?

  The guy who rules hell.

• 1:45:30Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:45:30Joe Rogan?

  Where everybody burns for eternity. Luciferianism, Luciferians emphasize self-improvement, free will, and intellectual pursuit over traditional religious dogma. They view Lucifer as a light bringer or liberator, often drawing from pre-Christian figures like Prometheus. Practices may include ceremonial magic, but the focus is typically on personal empowerment rather than the worship of evil. But that's a trapdoor, ain't it?

• 1:45:59Speaker 00

  Yes, it is.

• 1:46:00Joe Rogan?

  That's what it seems like.

• 1:46:01Speaker 00

  Exactly what it is.

• 1:46:01Joe Rogan?

  It seems like a trapdoor. Just the way they describe it, you're like, oh, well, that's me, man. I'm into self-improvement.

• 1:46:06Speaker 00

  And that's where you get, that's why it's, we're all God. I'm God. And that's where you get moral relativism. Secular humanism comes from Luciferianism, by the way. And in the 20th century, almost all the feminists signed like the Humanist Manifestos and things like that. The secular humanism stuff where it's like morality is subjective, you know, what's right for you at the time is what's right, and what's right or wrong for me at the time, and there is no objective moral facts.

• 1:46:33Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:46:34Speaker 00

  By the way, the reason they get away with rewriting the history on feminism. Is because they use something called standpoint theory. And this is a, an epistemological framework that asserts that there is no such thing as objective historical truth or facts. There's no objective timeline of history. There are no historical facts. And to the extent that these historical facts exist, they were created by white patriarchal oppressors to perpetuate their patriarchal oppression.

• 1:47:02Joe Rogan?

  Oh, boy.

• 1:47:03Speaker 00

  So, we can't know the real history unless it's told from the perspective of the most oppressed woman. And so that is how they rewrote everything. And the stuff you're getting from their textbooks, the things you're being taught in university is this stuff. It's not anything having to do with objective historical timelines.

• 1:47:23Joe Rogan?

  So Lucifer appears explicitly only once in the Bible, in Isaiah 14:12, King James' Version. "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning? How art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations?"

• 1:47:42Joe Rogan?

  Original context?

• 1:47:49Joe Rogan?

  Lucifer translates from the Hebrew term, meaning shining one, bright one, or light bear, often linked to the morning star.

• 1:47:57Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 1:48:00Speaker 05

  I think the later link in the later history is the hell and Satan.

• 1:48:05Joe Rogan?

  Scroll back down again, with the, with that, stop right there. It says, "Oh, not originally a proper name or reference to Satan." So, but that is Satan, though, right?

• 1:48:17Speaker 00

  So...

• 1:48:18Joe Rogan?

  It's who became Satan.

• 1:48:19Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:48:19Joe Rogan?

  Right? So it's like Lucifer before he went bad, the old days, like the Beatles, their early albums.

• 1:48:23Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:48:24Speaker 05

  I think so.

• 1:48:24Joe Rogan?

  No?

• 1:48:25Speaker 00

  Well, it's...

• 1:48:25Joe Rogan?

  So Lucifer's not Satan?

• 1:48:26Speaker 05

  No.

• 1:48:27Joe Rogan?

  What?

• 1:48:27Speaker 00

  Well, the Orthodox tradition is that he is, and there's multiple names for him. So sometimes he's called the adversary, sometimes he's called different things. The, the modern Protestant interpretations of things, because they use sola scriptura, there's a ton of like word concept fallacies where they think this word always refers to this one thing. And they're not correct about that. So like, our church tradition says, yes, he is Satan. He is the adversary, he's, you know, the evil one. He's got lots of names. I think Lucifer is like, his name is an angel, but...

• 1:49:01Joe Rogan?

  But, so, he was a fallen angel.

• 1:49:03Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:49:03Joe Rogan?

  Become Satan.

• 1:49:04Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:49:05Joe Rogan?

  But obviously, if someone is not just a fallen age, it becomes like the worst being in the world or in the universe. Like, how could you ignore that and only concentrate on the self-improvement part? Could you name that after somebody else? Aren't there a lot of other self-improvement people in the Bible?

• 1:49:23Speaker 00

  Well, that's the thing.

• 1:49:25Joe Rogan?

  It just seems tricky.

• 1:49:26Speaker 00

  Because what this really comes down to, like, the name of the book is Occult Feminism. It has two meanings. The first meaning is, a lot of these women were really into the occult.

• 1:49:35Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:49:36Speaker 00

  That's the most obvious one. But the second one is occult, the term itself just means hidden. And there's a whole history here that's been completely intentionally hidden from both women and men, but specifically from women, that if they knew it, I think they'd have a whole different view of this movement. And they would question a lot of its foundational grounding axioms and all the presuppositions we have that it was to protect women.

• 1:50:00Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:50:01Speaker 00

  So if we look at that, if we look at the promises of feminism, the promises we were told, it's going to protect you from abusive men, from unhappy abusive marriages. It's going to give you more freedom and more choice in your life. Those were the selling points and the things we were promised. But if you actually like, look at the statistics, you look at the outcomes of what's happened since feminism became dominant and we pushed women into the workforce, we discouraged them from, I mean, antinatalism is so rampant. I mean, you hear people refer to children as like, icky, they call them crotch goblins, they call them, you know, sex trophies, all these like, derogatory terms for children and parents.

• 1:50:43Speaker 00

  And you see the dual income, no kids people, the dinks, making all their like, TikToks about like, "A day in our life is dinks. We went to the Taylor Swift concert last night and then we slept in extra late and then we had brunch and smoked a joint." Like, you know, Chelsea Handler, "Look, we have no responsibility. We live purely for ourselves. We do whatever we want. It's so great." So it's like, always been this dialectic of, do you want to be self-sacrificial and give of yourself for something greater that goes into the future long after you're gone? This greater purpose that's going, that you might never even see fully the fruits of in your lifetime. Or do you want to party and have fun and go after what you want now and be kinda hedonistic,

• 1:51:28Speaker 00

  kinda selfish? And that's the Luciferian paradigm. Like even the Satanic Temple guys, Anton LaVey and all those guys, they said, "Look, we're not even like deistic Satanists. We just think, I'm my own God. I decide what's right for me. I do what I want in my life for my own fulfillment. And nobody is entitled to anything from me. I decide if and when I want to give anything to anyone. This life is for me." Those are kind of the two sides you kind of end up on. And so when I say a cult, I kind of mean that too. I kind of mean like, yeah, raising five kids was really hard. I didn't buy fancy new clothes. I didn't get beauty treatments. I didn't do much of anything

• 1:52:10Speaker 00

  for myself. I went like 20 years with no sleep. It was, you know, it is hard work. But my children, and hopefully their children, who is who I wrote this book for when I wrote it, I thought it was gonna be like, I didn't know I was gonna be here talking about it. I thought it was gonna be for like my grandkids and my great grandkids and things like that because I wanted them to know this stuff. That's hard. It's hard work. And on the front end of that, the first 20 years that you're raising kids, it feels kind of thankless sometimes. It feels tough. And you go, "What am I doing all this for?" It's so, my friends are out at the concert, they're partying.

• 1:52:47Joe Rogan?

  Everything hard feels like that. Every job feels like that.

• 1:52:49Speaker 00

  Yes. So when you put in all that hard work and sacrifice on the front, now I'm in my mid 40s. My kids are all grown. I have children that are like in their mid 20s adults. My youngest is in high school. I have more time to do other things. That's why I said we give women backwards advice. We tell them, "Spend all your fertile years building an education and a career. And then later, if there's time for a family, maybe you can do that, if you want to be weird." What we should tell women, I think, is you can do a lot of things. I'm not saying you only have children and you never do anything else. And that was never the case historically. It was never the case. I had my first child at 20. I had my last one at 32.

• 1:53:31Speaker 00

  I got a lot of living, God willing, you know, that I'll be able to do other things. I'm doing this now. Once I have grandkids, you'll probably never see me again because hopefully I'll be doing a lot with that. I'll have time to do things for my church, for my community. I could do anything I want. I can garden. I can write books. There's a million things you could do. And that was always the case. This idea that women didn't have choices before feminism is nuts. They were writing novels. They were supporting themselves, you know, doing all kinds of other things. And what's happened after feminism is now, I think, you don't have many choices. Because like my daughters, my second oldest is like, I would love to just get married right now and have kids. But like, how do we pay for

• 1:54:15Speaker 00

  it? What do I do until I find a husband? Like, between 18, say I don't find a guy till I'm 23. What do I do for those five years? Just stay at home and twiddle my thumbs? Like, what do I do? Do I get a job? She feels like she doesn't have choices. She would love to stay home and have kids. Most of the women who write to me are like, I had one lady write to me and say, I, ever since I got together with my boyfriend and started going to church with him, all I can think about, day in and day out, is getting married and having kids. I daydream during the day about my future children and I dream about them in my dreams at night. That's all I, everything in me wants to do that. But I'm in my last year of dental school and I have all this debt and my parents fully expect me to graduate and start a dental

• 1:54:59Speaker 00

  practice. And if I told them, I'm not going to do that. I'm just going to stay home and have kids, they would lose it. They would probably disown me. They would think I'd lost my mind. They would say, are you kidding? You can't do that. And I talk to women all the time who feel like they're trapped that way. And the truth is feminism didn't make anything safer for women. It did the opposite. If you look at, we have so much data on this, cohabitative relationships where you just live with your boyfriend have a 35% higher domestic violence rate than married couples. If you look at child abuse, there's something called the National Incident Study. I have a whole breakdown of this on my Substack too. It's gone over the last 45 years of all the data we have from every reporting agency in the country. It's the most comprehensive one.

• 1:55:45Speaker 00

  For the last 45 years, children who live with married biological parents are 12 times safer by on every metric, whether it's sexual abuse, physical abuse, emotional abuse, neglect, by a factor of 12 times safer than any other living situation. And kids that come from disrupted family living situations like mine, where you got divorced parents and like dad's got a girlfriend, mom's got a new husband, those sort of things. Those are all far, far, far unsafer for children on every level that we look at. And then if you look at kids from fatherless homes, the risk for everything, addiction,

• 1:56:26Speaker 00

  learning disabilities, mental health problems, ending up in a juvenile facility, being homeless. It's like between 70 to 85% of kids in those situations come from fatherless homes. So what we've done over the last 50 years is take dads and husbands out of the home and replace them with the government. And it has made women and children more vulnerable to abuse, to abandonment, to ending up on welfare, to ending up in any number of bad situations that you can think of. It didn't protect us. And I think if more women knew that, they would at least, you know, give it a second thought and be like, hmm. Maybe the whole getting married and having kids thing isn't so terrifying.

• 1:57:10Speaker 00

  We don't fear monger women about what can go wrong if you dedicate your whole life to a career. You know, we don't tell them, well, what if this happens? What if you try to be a brain surgeon and then you get Parkinson's and you can never work again?

• 1:57:23Joe Rogan?

  Right. But like what percentage of people in this country, families in this country require both parents to work in order to get by?

• 1:57:29Speaker 00

  Most, most.

• 1:57:31Joe Rogan?

  So what's the solution to that?

• 1:57:32Speaker 00

  Well, I think it's not going to be quick. It's going to be a multi-generational project, but I think if you give women the choice, I believe Simone de Beauvoir, when she said that if you give women the choice, more and more will choose to be moms and stay home at least more.

• 1:57:47Joe Rogan?

  Right, but what if they can't?

• 1:57:48Speaker 00

  If they can't.

• 1:57:49Joe Rogan?

  In this situation we're specifically talking about, where they require two incomes in order to pay the bills.

• 1:57:53Speaker 00

  So that was me. So when Andrew and I got together and we had two kids of our own, we've now got a house full of kids. He's, you know, starting his career. He's making okay money, but nothing crazy. And we had to like move out to the country where it's cheaper. We had chickens, we had a garden. I had, I learned how to be a firearms instructor because I could teach a class on a Saturday, only be gone for one day of the week and make like 2,000 bucks. So I could make like a week's worth of money, only working one day a week on the day that he's home. So like my advice to people, I'm not super huge on giving advice because it depends. There's a lot going on that I don't know your situation, but you have to get creative. Try to find things you can do on the side, things you can do from home.

• 1:58:38Speaker 00

  That was one of the benefits to COVID is now something like 30% of work is remote from homework. If you can do that and kind of structure your day more around the kids and work at night, maybe when dad's home, things like that, that's kind of what you have to do. In an ideal situation, yeah.

• 1:58:54Joe Rogan?

  Um, I wanted to talk about Jack Parsons.

• 1:58:57Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:58:58Joe Rogan?

  And all the craziness because we, we had gone over the fact that this guy was working for NASA. He was involved in rocketry.

• 1:59:09Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:59:10Joe Rogan?

  And yet he was an avowed Satanist.

• 1:59:12Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:59:13Joe Rogan?

  And he got involved in the whole feminist movement.

• 1:59:15Speaker 00

  Yeah, through, through his girlfriend, Marjorie Cameron, who was like an archetype of the Scarlet Woman. So Parsons was kind of like, he created like a kind of an occult cult that was a break off from Aleister Crowley and had a lot of Crowleyan beliefs. And when he met Marjorie Cameron, she was like this rebellious redhead who smoked and drank and slept around and like all the Hollywood dudes in his circle kind of liked her. A lot of his friends slept with her too. And she was very into the occult and she was really into like witchcraft and ritual magic. And so was he. And so when they met, it was like instant chemistry.

• 1:59:56Speaker 00

  And the rumor, the legend is that they spent like, I don't know, multiple, many days, even like up to a couple of weeks, nonstop doing sex magic together. Like that's all they did for a couple of weeks.

• 2:00:08Joe Rogan?

  What is, what's sex magic?

• 2:00:09Speaker 00

  So according to like Crowley and a lot of these kind of like more openly Satanist, left-hand path type of occultism, the sexual experience and the orgasm is super powerful because it can channel your emotions in a way that nothing else can. You get like this big surge of energy and emotion that will make whatever spell or ritual you're doing more powerful. So Crowley's favorite thing to do was sodomize fellas in order to, uh...

• 2:00:38Speaker 00

  Worship demons or invoke demons.

• 2:00:43Speaker 00

  Yeah, he had, he had pets. He had dudes that were his little,

• 2:00:47Joe Rogan?

  Oh, boy.

• 2:00:48Speaker 00

  His bottoms for his, I, I need to go, uh,

• 2:00:51Joe Rogan?

  Was Crowley gay or bisexual?

• 2:00:53Speaker 00

  He was bi. He had a lot of women he would do this stuff with too, but he thought that the homosexual stuff, basically the more degenerate

• 2:00:59Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:01:00Speaker 00

  it is, the more intense it's gonna make the spell, so.

• 2:01:03Joe Rogan?

  Oh, boy. So he cast spells while he's buttfucking?

• 2:01:06Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:01:07Joe Rogan?

  Ooh.

• 2:01:07Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 2:01:08Joe Rogan?

  Whoa.

• 2:01:09Speaker 00

  And then you add a little bit of hallucinogenic drugs in there too, and

• 2:01:13Joe Rogan?

  And so-

• 2:01:14Speaker 00

  That's where you really get the good stuff.

• 2:01:16Joe Rogan?

  What, what impact did all these people have on feminism?

• 2:01:19Speaker 00

  So, I mean, Parsons was also friends with the guy who came up with Scientology,

• 2:01:25Joe Rogan?

  Oh, Ron Hubbard?

• 2:01:26Speaker 00

  Hubbard, yep. And they actually fought over Marjorie Cameron for a while, and when Parsons died, because he blew himself up, you know, at home working on a rocket, he blew himself up. Cameron didn't handle it well. She freaked out. She moved out into the desert and was, and started her own community cult of like, moon children. So nuts. It's so nuts. She specifically recruited like, all different races of people. Like, she focused on finding dudes to impregnate her supposedly, to make moon children who were gonna like, bring the Antichrist, and they'd go out into the desert and live on this ranch together and do a bunch of peyote. And she made like art, I have some of her art in the books, this crazy weird looking,

• 2:02:09Speaker 00

  crazy art. Um, one of her paintings is called "Peyote Vision." It's wild. Uh, but she was doing all the sex magic stuff to try to like reincarnate him, to try to bring about the Antichrist. She thought she was the Scarlet Woman that was gonna be like the Antichrist version of Mary, where the Antichrist is born through this Scarlet Woman, and it's references to Babylon and, and the end times in the Bible and all this stuff, which Crowley did all that stuff too. And she was a feminist icon, because this stuff goes along with being rebellious. It's, it's, there's a reason there's like an archetype of feminists, like a stereotype that they're all, they have daddy issues. They're man haters with daddy issues, because they kinda are. It's usually like, they're very against God, they're very against their dad,

• 2:02:53Speaker 00

  like, "You can't tell me what to do. You're not the boss of me. I'm a strong, independent woman. I'm gonna get what I want, even if I have to use my sexuality to do with it." It's like a very recurring theme of using sexuality, because women don't have the monopoly on force. Men do. So what do women have to get power? Sexuality and the power of like determining who gets to reproduce. Did you know that twice, we all have twice as many female ancestors as we do male ancestors?

• 2:03:20Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 2:03:21Speaker 00

  So throughout history, genetic studies show that twice as many women have been able to reproduce as men. Because we, that's where our power is. Our power is, if you're a fertile female, someone's gonna fertilize you. You don't have to be special or do much. As a man, you have to compete. You have to have resources. You have to outcompete the other men who are trying to get the female pregnant, that sort of thing. And a lot of men historically died in battle really young or doing dirty or dangerous jobs, you know, they died younger a lot of times. Or in war. And then you'd have war brides, you know, so they'd get impregnated again by like the enemy who took them back to their homeland, that kind of thing. So, yeah, we, we have this, that's where women feel that their power lies, is in sexuality.

• 2:04:05Speaker 00

  That's why every pop star and every movie star who's a famous woman, for the most part, there's a handful of exceptions, but most of them, they'll do anything to stay hot. You know, they're trying to be sexy at 70, like, um, who was that? Jane Fonda? Sexy at 70, sexy at 80, you know, she's gonna be sexy forever.

• 2:04:27Joe Rogan?

  Hearing bones crack.

• 2:04:29Speaker 00

  Ow, my hip!

• 2:04:30Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:04:30Speaker 00

  Yeah, it was like, uh, I mean, Jennifer Lopez is kinda doing that too. She's had how many husbands and engagements and divorces? And she's still out there in the thong, shaking it on Vegas, you know, her Vegas shows and stuff? And, yeah, she looks good. She's got endless money to do endless things to look good. Lord knows what they're doing, but, um, that's where women think their power comes from. So Cameron was like big into pushing this into the California, like, uh, counterculture in the 60s. And at the time, this was like, well, in the 50s and 60s. So like even people like Sammy Davis Jr., who's another guy that said he was a Satanist.

• 2:05:08Joe Rogan?

  Sammy Davis Jr. was a Satanist? Hanging out with Sinatra?

• 2:05:11Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's what he said. Now, you wonder sometimes if they just say that for shock value, I don't know.

• 2:05:16Joe Rogan?

  Right. Or maybe they had fun parties.

• 2:05:20Speaker 00

  Oh, they definitely had. They were having Diddy parties before Diddy was around, you know what I'm saying? So Cameron was the it girl in the counterculture in LA and her art was really popular and stuff. And there's a lot that kind of came out of her popularity that went into the mainstream later in like these Scarlet Women archetypes of like the sexy, bad girl who's rebellious and is undomesticated and unattached, you know what I mean? And that's become the cool girl now for a lot of people. And that's why like you'll see celebrities talking about, oh, I've had four abortions. Yeah, so what? I do what I want and I'm not going to be held down by no man or no baby. I'm gonna, I'm a strong, independent woman out here and I decide.

• 2:06:03Speaker 00

  You know, that's what, that's why you see women screaming about how abortion is great. They go to these rallies and they're just like screaming the most horrible things. And I think if you convince enough women that motherhood and having babies is like this horrific oppressive ball and chain, which is what my mother was convinced of. She was totally convinced. She said to me once, having children is the worst thing that ever happened to me. No offense. She said, no offense, but it's the worst thing that ever happened to me. And I asked her once, I was like, what do you, what is it that you would have gone and done? You know, if it weren't for having kids? She had no idea. She had no answer. She just knows that it would have been great. You know what I mean? So it's like they use a lot of fear of missing out, a lot of-

• 2:06:46Joe Rogan?

  Well, they get indoctrinated.

• 2:06:47Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:06:48Joe Rogan?

  And then that becomes your primary narrative and you believe it no matter what. And you just default to that no matter what.

• 2:06:55Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:06:55Joe Rogan?

  And all your discomfort is because of this thing that you've already identified. This is the problem. Patriarchy, men, I got saddled down with kids. That's why I'm miserable. Not because I'm completely unproductive. I don't have a good community. I'm not healthy.

• 2:07:09Speaker 00

  Right.

• 2:07:10Joe Rogan?

  All the above.

• 2:07:10Speaker 00

  Isn't it weird? Have you ever noticed like all the videos women will make about how they get a divorce? I just went through my divorce and then I had a post divorce glow up. They lose 40 pounds, they get in shape, they get their hair done. Then maybe get a little plastic surgery, a little Botox, a little filler and they're like, look- Look at me now and it's like, if you had done that while you were married, you'd probably still be married and having a great time with your husband.

• 2:07:35Joe Rogan?

  Perhaps, the husband's a fucking loser.

• 2:07:36Speaker 00

  Sometimes.

• 2:07:37Joe Rogan?

  A lot.

• 2:07:38Speaker 00

  That happens.

• 2:07:38Joe Rogan?

  There's a lot of losers out there. There's a lot of guys I wouldn't want to hitch my wagon to.

• 2:07:43Speaker 00

  That's true.

• 2:07:43Joe Rogan?

  If I was a woman, like, count on this fucking dipshit to figure things out?

• 2:07:47Speaker 00

  I think that's the other, uh, result of the sexual liberation stuff, though, is like, what motivation do men have to be like, good, dependable, upstanding providers?

• 2:07:59Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:07:59Speaker 00

  When they can just sleep around and be fuckboys and losers and idiots?

• 2:08:05Joe Rogan?

  That's why the dating apps are so crazy. It's so crazy, like, you're on a date, someone says one thing you don't like, like, let me just pick up my phone and see who else is around.

• 2:08:13Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:08:13Joe Rogan?

  It's crazy that so many people are on those things and you're just like constantly inundated by options.

• 2:08:20Speaker 00

  I've never been on a dating app. It's one of my biggest flexes in life. Never been on a dating app. Uh, I've been with Andrew for, you know, almost two decades now, so it's like, I miss that whole thing. I feel like I caught the last chopper out of Nam.

• 2:08:33Joe Rogan?

  That met wonderful people on dating apps. Like, I have a good buddy of mine who met his girl on a dating app and he loves her and they have a great relationship. It can happen. It's just like, just people that, you don't want to go to a bar, you know, that's not the type of people you want to meet in the first place. How do you find them? And, you know, they have like certain dating apps that are like more selective, I guess.

• 2:08:53Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:08:54Joe Rogan?

  You know, about like, what, what are you into? Try to pair someone up who's like-minded. If you're alone and you're busy with other stuff and you find it very hard to meet someone, I would match it's really interesting. But then also, if you're a young person and you're just trying to bang it out, out there on the streets, and, you know, you got fourteen people hitting your inbox and you, pictures of your abs and you fucking flexing or whatever it is. You, you know, like, that is chaos. And I don't think people are supposed to have those kind of options.

• 2:09:24Speaker 00

  No, you didn't. You never did historically. It's only been like fifteen years. It used to be your area where you lived.

• 2:09:31Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:09:31Speaker 00

  Those were the people to choose from and you'd find the best person for you.

• 2:09:35Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:09:36Speaker 00

  In that, like, I taught, I interviewed- Interviewed my grandma on my YouTube channel when she was 97 and I asked her like, when you and Aunt Thelma were trying, when Thelma and Lois were looking for, you know, husbands in the early 40s, like, what were the things you guys were looking for? What did you think about when you were like, looking for a guy? She's like, oh, well, we, you know, he had to have a good reputation. He had to come from a nice family, you know, because you're gonna, you know, when you marry a guy, you marry his family, so you gotta think about that. I wanted him to go to like, the same type of church as me and believe the same things. And he had to, you know, have good job prospects, you know, a good future prospects because, you know, you want to raise a family and, and those sort of things. She did not say six foot, six pack, or six figures.

• 2:10:21Speaker 00

  None of that came up. It was all like, pretty wholesome and very like, long-term minded. Do you know what I mean?

• 2:10:28Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:10:28Speaker 00

  Like, she's thinking of the future. I don't feel like, I don't even feel like I did that. I feel like when I was young, I was stupid and I was like, he's cute and funny, that's good enough for me. You know?

• 2:10:39Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's like, it's, there's normal preferences that people have. Like, to big, tall guys, fit people.

• 2:10:46Speaker 00

  Sure.

• 2:10:46Joe Rogan?

  Wealthy people. That's the normal things. But, it's like, the thing about today and all the options is not just that, it's all the performative stuff that people do consistently and constantly online. So then, you're also looking for positive feedback from strangers constantly.

• 2:11:04Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 2:11:05Joe Rogan?

  And then you're also reflecting on negative feedback from strangers constantly.

• 2:11:10Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:11:10Joe Rogan?

  So, kids today are just overwhelmed, drowning in anxiety.

• 2:11:15Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 2:11:15Joe Rogan?

  Because they're addicted to this feedback and this, this thing where they're always pretending to be someone they're not online. And they're using filters and cars that they leased and, you know.

• 2:11:26Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:11:26Joe Rogan?

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• 2:13:25Speaker 00

  Yeah, I have four girls and I've made a point to always show them. Like, I'll show them before and afters of the Kardashians.

• 2:13:34Speaker 00

  I'll show them, here's Kylie Jenner before all the, like, probably hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of work that she's had done in professional stylists and trainers and... All the facial augmentations and all the different things that they get done. Here's what she looked like, just any normal girl from your junior high. The only reason she looks like this now, and on top of all the work and everything else, there's filters and there's apps that they edit everything with, and I'm like, this isn't real.

• 2:14:02Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:14:03Speaker 00

  Because I remember growing up in the 90s, I don't ever remember thinking a whole lot about what my butt looked like, if my nose was too big, like all the things that they hyped. These girls like pick themselves apart today.

• 2:14:16Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:14:16Speaker 00

  It's terrifying. It's like heartbreaking. I think boys do the same thing. They're like, I'm short, it's over for me, I might as well self-delete, I'll never be anything because I'm short. And I'm like-

• 2:14:25Joe Rogan?

  Well, what percentage of guys are in cells today? It's kind of nuts.

• 2:14:28Speaker 00

  It's pretty high.

• 2:14:29Joe Rogan?

  It's really high, like higher than that. Like, there was a percentage of men that don't have any sex at all right now, and it's nuts. But it's that thing, it's like 20% of the men are desirable to 100% of the women.

• 2:14:43Speaker 00

  Right.

• 2:14:43Joe Rogan?

  And those 80% of guys are fucked.

• 2:14:45Speaker 00

  Yes. Yeah, I don't, I don't know what we do about that. I don't have a great answer for that. I've tried, kind of like, talking, like, I'll go on the whatever podcast once in a while and kind of like, ask girls probing questions about that, like, do you think it's possible that you could be missing it? Like, if you're 22 and you won't date a guy because he only makes 50 grand a year, it's like, yeah, well, my husband only made 40 grand a year when we met, but he makes way more than that now. Like, you used to grow together, and, and having a family really motivates a man to, like, hustle and grow whatever it is that he's doing and try to be better. But it's like, if you're 22 and you're like, I won't even look at you unless you make

• 2:15:25Speaker 00

  six figures, you're missing out on a ton of great guys. And it's like, what, what exactly do you want? What are you looking for? And they don't even know, like-

• 2:15:33Joe Rogan?

  Well, they're kind of programmed towards hypergamy today, right?

• 2:15:37Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:15:37Joe Rogan?

  It seems like they're programmed to go after the super-successful, hyper-successful people and not think, oh, I'm developing a relationship with a man and we're gonna grow together.

• 2:15:47Speaker 00

  Yeah, and they have, this is true, and we know there's problems with men, but we talk all the time about problems with men, and I think what we tell women is, you're perfect how you are, you are a goddess girl, and you don't have to change for anybody. That's what, that's what we tell women.

• 2:16:04Joe Rogan?

  But then, how many of those women are now on Ozempic?

• 2:16:08Joe Rogan?

  That was crazy. All the body positivity women are all like 120 pounds now. They look like they're making weight at the UFC.

• 2:16:16Speaker 00

  Yeah, all the fat is beautiful influencers are now just like.

• 2:16:20Joe Rogan?

  Skeletons.

• 2:16:20Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 2:16:21Joe Rogan?

  It's so fucking strange.

• 2:16:23Speaker 00

  Kind of gave the game away.

• 2:16:24Joe Rogan?

  You see like Kelly Osbourne on TV, God bless her soul, I don't know if she's doing that. But I know a lot of them, they just get so thin.

• 2:16:31Speaker 00

  Meghan Trainor got popular on a song about being a little bit chunky and having a big butt and that boys actually like that better. And the minute she can get a GLP-1, she's like, never mind.

• 2:16:40Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, a lot of people did it. A lot of people did it. A lot of people did it.

• 2:16:43Speaker 00

  Lizzo did it.

• 2:16:45Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's, uh, but it's, this is the thing I always say to men, you know, when they tell me like, oh, I don't want to work out, I don't want to do any of those things. Why do you do, why do you waste all your time doing that? I go, if I could give you a pill that could make you really strong, like instantaneously really strong and able to like strangle men, like you could kill people with your bare hands, you wouldn't take it? Do you want to be vulnerable? Do you like it? Well, there's no pill, but if you just work, you can become that. You can become a different type of man.

• 2:17:14Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:17:14Joe Rogan?

  Like that's possible.

• 2:17:15Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:17:16Joe Rogan?

  But you don't want to do it. So you want to dismiss it as being silly. Well, why would it be silly to have power? It's to have strength, to have a physical body that can like move things around easier, that can hold people down if you have to, if there's something terribly wrong, you can defend yourself. Why would you not want to have that? Well, everybody wants that. It's just, it's an incredibly long path to get there. So they're fucking scared of it, so they dismiss it.

• 2:17:42Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's the same thing as raising kids, right? It's like, so I lifted weights for, uh, it's been like 18 years. And there were periods where I was really lean and I looked fantastic. And then there were periods where like I, and I lifted all through my pregnancies and everything. Thank God. And I highly recommend it because if you don't want to have like a lot of the complications you can have post-pregnancy, like pelvic floor issues, birthing issues. Get really strong and squat heavy, be able to do some heavy deadlifts and stuff. All that stays really strong and it really helps with your health. Um, I had a doctor that told me I wasn't gonna walk again after my fourth baby because my pelvic bone separated when I birthed her.

• 2:18:22Joe Rogan?

  You're not gonna be able to walk.

• 2:18:23Speaker 00

  Yeah, she was like, you should just get a walker.

• 2:18:25Joe Rogan?

  Oh, my god.

• 2:18:26Speaker 00

  You're not gonna be able to do much.

• 2:18:28Joe Rogan?

  That lady was so callous.

• 2:18:29Speaker 00

  I know, I was like.

• 2:18:29Joe Rogan?

  That's so crazy. There's no rehab. There's nothing you could do.

• 2:18:33Speaker 00

  By that time, I knew that most doctors give you advice based on liability. They don't want to get sued. She doesn't want to tell me to go squat because what if I hurt myself and then it's her fault?

• 2:18:42Joe Rogan?

  It's so funny you said that.

• 2:18:43Speaker 00

  So I just went right back to, I'm just gonna start with like, literally lifting my legs in bed. And then I progressed, and now I've got nothing wrong with me. I'm super strong. I'm fine. But it's the best thing to do. And through all those years of lifting, even when I was a little too chunky, like after my son passed away, I gained a lot of weight. I could not care about myself for a couple of years. I just couldn't bring myself to do it. But I still went to the gym because it kept me sane. It did more for me mentally than therapy or anything else other than prayer. I would say prayer would be the number one thing. Gym, a close second. It was a really great way to battle out all of the really strong, crazy emotions that I had. Just one more rep.

• 2:19:24Speaker 00

  You know, until you're so tired that it's like, a lot of the bad feelings and stuff you have, you have some clarity and you can kind of figure it out. You know what I mean?

• 2:19:33Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's one thing that I think would be a good way to develop more men is to encourage them into doing difficult things.

• 2:19:41Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 2:19:41Joe Rogan?

  And difficult, hard work, and specifically, physical things. Because I think your body has a certain amount of requirements in order to maintain like a stable level of anxiety and mental health. I think, I think it's a giant factor. I know it's a giant factor because when I take a few days off, if there's something wrong, if I get hurt or something like that, I start getting batty. And I'm like, oh, this is like most people, most of the time. Like, that's a terrible way to live your life.

• 2:20:07Speaker 00

  Yeah, Andrew knows if I'm, if I'm out of sorts like that, he's like,

• 2:20:11Joe Rogan?

  Go to the gym.

• 2:20:12Speaker 00

  You haven't been to the gym. And like, we just moved across the country and it was like, it's there's so much that goes into doing that, especially when he has a business and everything and there's kids. And so it was like the longest I've taken off ever, I want to say. Like even with kids and surgeries, I didn't have to take off that long. And we finally got the home gym put in and he's like, oh, you're normal again. Great. You're mentally balanced again. It's great for women, too. If you're a woman that struggles with depression and anxiety, try pushing yourself really hard in the gym and you'll find out what you're made of. It doesn't mean you have to be stronger than dudes. It doesn't, you're not going to get huge muscles because you don't have enough testosterone to do that unless you're taking gear or something. But get in there and work out and then you have the added benefit of it's going to help you through childbirth

• 2:20:55Speaker 00

  and pregnancy. As you get older, you're not going to be fragile and need your kids to take care of you all the time. You know what I mean? Like my parents both have terrible health and I want to avoid that. So I'm trying to be like really proactive about keeping myself healthy, avoiding heart disease, diabetes, all these things so that my kids don't have to have a power of attorney and take care of me.

• 2:21:15Joe Rogan?

  Right, right.

• 2:21:18Joe Rogan?

  Is there anything else you want to cover in the book? Because it's a really, I didn't read it, I listened to it. The guy who's reading it was a very odd voice. It's very odd. I really wish you read it.

• 2:21:31Speaker 00

  I want my husband to narrate it.

• 2:21:35Joe Rogan?

  Oh, he'd be great.

• 2:21:35Speaker 00

  I've asked multiple other people to narrate it and I can't get anybody to do it. I would love to do a reproduction. He actually did that for free because he thought it was, he was like, this book is so important. I'm happy to do it. He just sounds like he has a bit of a sinus infection.

• 2:21:49Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, he's got an odd voice, which is fine, but it's just like, it's the, the information's very fascinating. But I just, I always wish people read their own book in audio.

• 2:22:00Speaker 00

  Yeah. You know why I didn't? Because I think I sound like Lois Griffin and Sarah Palin had a baby.

• 2:22:08Speaker 00

  And I don't know that anybody wants to listen to hours of my voice.

• 2:22:11Joe Rogan?

  They do. I'm sure they do. They're listening to it right now.

• 2:22:13Speaker 00

  Well, maybe I'll do it. Maybe I'll do it.

• 2:22:15Joe Rogan?

  It's all in your own head.

• 2:22:16Speaker 00

  Well, I have this Upper Midwest, like, old guy, you know?

• 2:22:20Joe Rogan?

  That's fine. You're from the Upper Midwest. It doesn't matter. But the point is, it's like, it's interesting because this is your work. It's your perspective, you know?

• 2:22:30Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:22:31Joe Rogan?

  And it's really good. There's a lot.

• 2:22:34Speaker 00

  I'd say if I gotta say anything else about it, I did not write this book, nor do I talk about these things or debate feminists because I hate women. I do not hate women. I love women. I'm a woman. I have daughters. I have women in my life that I love, and...

• 2:22:52Joe Rogan?

  That's a crazy narrative.

• 2:22:53Speaker 00

  Yeah. Well, and people think, they'll say, like, why do women act so crazy nowadays? Why are they all so crazy? And it's like, what do you think would happen if you took any group of humans and you said, "You are perfect the way you are. You are a goddess. You are strong, independent, whatever you are. You don't need to change. There's nothing to be improved upon. And if you do something wrong, it's only because a man somewhere hurt you or did something bad, and that's the only reason that you would do..." Like, we've removed accountability. We've given women more power than the balance... I think there was a balance already before feminism. Because you had women with the power over reproduction and mate selection and sexuality and motherhood and all the influence they have over men through those things.

• 2:23:38Speaker 00

  And then you had men with the monopoly on physical force and probably, like, political force and things like that. So there was kind of a balance. And what we did with feminism was, we just completely threw it off. And now we're like, "No, men. You stay down. You be quiet. You're toxic. You're bad." Like, schools, public schools are terrible for boys. Sit down. Be quiet. Be like Suzie. Just use the highlighter and organize things by color and be quiet and still and soft and nice and, you know, we HR manage boys to death now. And so we've thrown the balance off. And what we've done is give women all this power, but taken away all the accountability. And it's like, why would you not expect them to act a little crazy? Why would it not kind of spoil them?

• 2:24:23Speaker 00

  And I don't think women are inherently bad. I think what feminism has done has made them... A worse version of who they would be otherwise. I think we need accountability and responsibility. We need to have some self-sacrifice in life. We need to have the same inherent human struggle that men have and that all people have had. And we did before. So every time you look in history, this is a key thing. If you are arguing with feminists, if you're looking at history and they say, look at this horrible thing. Women couldn't have this, or women didn't do that, or there was stigma around this. Ask yourself, was that also true for men? Because it always is. It always is. Men didn't have this glorious, carefree existence, free of responsibility, where they had all the power and

• 2:25:08Speaker 00

  control, but none of the accountability. That's a lie. That's a myth. But we've convinced women of that. So now we're trying to flip it the other way. And yeah, women are acting crazy. We have Bonnie Blue and we have like all these crazy OnlyFans girls. And like, the only women online, besides me and a handful of others, are boss babes and OnlyFans chicks and Instagram models and blue-haired screeching feminists. That's what we've ended up with. So it's like, I wrote it because I think feminism is bad for women. And I think it would help them. I think it's bad for everyone and kids. I am no longer willing to sacrifice the welfare of children on the altar of feminism ever again. I won't do it.

• 2:25:50Speaker 00

  And if you want me to throw kids under the bus so that women can do blah, I don't care what it is. I'm not going to do it. I want to see kids growing up in loving families with both their parents. I want to see community again. I want to see families again. All the great stuff that we all lost from that. The loneliness epidemic, all the depression and the anxiety. Women have higher rates of substance abuse than ever in recorded history right now.

• 2:26:19Joe Rogan?

  Don't men also have higher rates?

• 2:26:20Speaker 00

  No, it's actually stayed pretty static with men. In fact, like, Gen Z boys. Hardly ever drink, like the marijuana.

• 2:26:28Joe Rogan?

  But what about opioid addiction?

• 2:26:31Speaker 00

  The opioid epidemic is pretty, pretty much both. Because I think it's kind of medically based. A lot of people get something, you know, surgery or whatever.

• 2:26:39Joe Rogan?

  And then they get hooked.

• 2:26:40Speaker 00

  Yeah, and they get hooked on it and then they gotta go looking for it elsewhere. But women, we've never seen as high a rate of fetal alcohol syndrome in babies as we're seeing now. And alcoholism is much worse for women. Our bodies are smaller, our livers don't handle toxic amounts of alcohol, even as well as a man's. It's bad for men.

• 2:26:58Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:26:58Speaker 00

  It's even worse for women. Twenty-six percent of American women are on at least one psychiatric prescription drug.

• 2:27:05Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:27:06Speaker 00

  That's nuts.

• 2:27:07Joe Rogan?

  That's nuts.

• 2:27:08Speaker 00

  And they did something, in my book I cover a big study called "The Paradox of Female Happiness." And this came out in 2008, I think, and it made huge waves where they did this giant survey of women. They had done one in the 70s and they were repeating it, you know, 40-something years later to see like, okay, we've had a lot of feminism. Are women doing better? And on every metric they measured, women reported being less fulfilled, less happy and less content than they did in the 70s before they were like, fully liberated. And they give a lot of reasons as to why, you know, the burden of having to juggle work and home and the expectations versus reality of what feminism sold them and things like

• 2:27:53Speaker 00

  that. And then they did a repeat study several years later that was even more comprehensive where they went to other countries and other societies and different types of places and did another survey about women's happiness. Because now feminism is pretty global. There's only a few places in the world where it hasn't really taken hold yet. So they were like, we should check other places. And the authors of the study opened with something that I thought was kind of funny. They said, "Regardless of where you look, culture, economic status, religion, it doesn't seem to matter, women everywhere and always are less happy than men." And they said, "The reasons for that are somewhat biological. We have like hormonal fluctuations that men don't deal with, you know, things like periods

• 2:28:37Speaker 00

  and menopause and all that sort of stuff. And we're just less emotionally stable. Women experience three times the mental illness than men do."

• 2:28:46Speaker 00

  And it could be for many reasons. We could like try to tear all that apart. But feminism hasn't made women happier. It hasn't made them safer. I don't think it's really given them more choices. It's just given them kind of different choices. And children are suffering the most. And when you tear apart the family unit, which is what the Marxist feminists said was their explicit purpose, because property rights are passed down through men, men, you know, build businesses and own properties the most and pass it down to their kids. So they're like, we gotta get rid of this fatherhood stuff, the patriarchy, we gotta get rid of the family unit, especially like the Leninist

• 2:29:26Speaker 00

  ones, where like Lenin should be the daddy. The government should be the daddy. Because...

• 2:29:32Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and you see that with a lot of socialist-leaning cities, where they want the state to be in charge of things, like decisions whether a child can medically transition, that kind of shit.

• 2:29:44Speaker 00

  Yes, all that stuff. It's all there for reasons, which are all detailed in the book, but it's basically a scam. And I feel like women have been grossly misled and horribly propagandized to believe a whole bunch of shit that's not even true. And if they read my book, and if they look into it themselves, they double-check all my sources, they go back and read everything themselves, and they still believe it's better for them, that's fine. But I at least want them to know the truth and be able to make an informed decision about why they're living their life the way they are, and if they believe this sort of stuff, and if they really accept this feminist framework or not.

• 2:30:20Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's a really, really well-written book, and it's very fascinating. And I really enjoyed this conversation.

• 2:30:26Speaker 00

  Well, thanks. I'm so glad that you loved the book. I was really shocked that you liked it so much.

• 2:30:30Joe Rogan?

  No, I really did. It was very, it was eye-opening, like how many of these people were full-on kooks, like that just abandoned their kids. And these are the people that everybody's looking to, like, oh, she was a boss lady, like, she was a monster. She's this horrible person that didn't think anyone should have children. Like, there's so much of that in the book. It's really, really great.

• 2:30:53Speaker 00

  It's crazy.

• 2:30:53Joe Rogan?

  So, here it is. Occult Feminism: The Secret History of Women's Liberation. Rachel Wilson. Go get it.

• 2:30:59Speaker 00

  Thank you.

• 2:31:00Joe Rogan?

  Thanks so much. It was fun. Bye, everybody.

• 2:31:17Joe Rogan?

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• 2:32:02Joe Rogan?

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