#2421 - Derek, More Plates More Dates

Derek is the fitness educator and entrepreneur behind the "More Plates, More Dates" YouTube channel, podcast, and companion website.www.moreplatesmoredates.com www.youtube.com/@MorePlatesMoreDates Perplexity: Download the app or ask Perplexity anything at https://pplx.ai/rogan. Buy 1 Get 1 Free Trucker Hat with code ROGAN at https://happydad.com This video is sponsored by BetterHelp. Visit https://BetterHelp.com/JRE Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  The Joe Rogan Experience.

• 0:05Speaker 01

  Training by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day.

• 0:12Joe Rogan?

  Derek, tell me about your new drink. Look at this here, Red Gummy Fish. I'm about to try it for the first time. And this is a nootropic?

• 0:19Speaker 03

  Yeah, so it's, I think on the first episode, maybe, that I did with you.

• 0:25Joe Rogan?

  Ooh.

• 0:25Speaker 03

  Robust, eh?

• 0:26Joe Rogan?

  That's good.

• 0:27Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 0:28Joe Rogan?

  That's delicious. You mean, robust? You're saying it like it potentially is a negative thing?

• 0:32Speaker 03

  Oh, both, flavor and...

• 0:33Joe Rogan?

  I think it's great.

• 0:34Speaker 03

  Oh, right on.

• 0:35Joe Rogan?

  Red gummy fish, this is fucking delicious. I drank the shit out of this.

• 0:39Speaker 03

  I'm glad you're good.

• 0:39Joe Rogan?

  Oh, a lot of stuff in here. What's in here?

• 0:41Speaker 03

  So, I think it was the first time I was on, you asked me about Gorilla Mind and the nootropic formula that I used before podcasts.

• 0:48Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 0:49Speaker 03

  To get cognitively dialed. And at the time, it was a capsule-based formula. It still is, it still exists. But, taking what we could to suspend in a liquid format and getting it into something that's more like publicly and widely accepted, that they would want to drink on a regular basis, and it's something you could use daily, it's kind of what we did in this. So, we included essentially like a daily use version of the Gorilla Mind formula, which includes the tyrosine, precursor for dopamine, as well as other neurotransmitters, catecholamines like adrenaline or adrenaline. Also, alpha-gpc, most bioavailable form of choline, it crosses the blood-brain barrier and is pretty efficacious, and also just

• 1:32Speaker 03

  a good choline source in general, which most people are deficient in as a nutrient, and I think completely unaware that it's actually important to be supplementing with potentially. Pretty hard to get an adequate amount of choline, but...

• 1:44Joe Rogan?

  Where does it come from in food?

• 1:45Speaker 03

  Liver is a good source, eggs, and in general, it's just like the highly nutrition-dense foods that you would get it from. A lot of people aren't focusing on specifically, either because of caloric density, or it's like an animal-based, like nose-to-tail thing, or fill in the blank. It's not impossible to do it. A lot of people who focus on it could probably relatively easily, but it's still one of the things you have to focus on, actually kind of like maneuvering into your diet typically. So, in general, most people are at least maybe like 50% of the way that are at best, and that's even among people who I would say are relatively balanced diet individuals, but...

• 2:24Joe Rogan?

  Interesting.

• 2:25Speaker 03

  I'm sure you're familiar with cholinergics and their impact on cognition and whatnot. Caffeine, tried and true. How much you got in here? 200 milligrams. Very difficult decision trying to come up with what is the amount you're going to stick with in perpetuity in this thing. Everyone's addicted now. It's a real issue with caffeine. So it's like the fine line balance of not too much, something that is still tolerable, sustainable, going to be widely accepted and widely impactful on a beneficial level, but not overdoing it. And 200 is kind of what we landed on. And then uridine monophosphate, pretty unique ingredient. I haven't seen anybody ever included in a drink, let alone even in supplements typically. What is it?

• 3:05Speaker 03

  So it's also something that operates via the cholinergic system, but in a different way, mainly it's utility is kind of enhancing your sensitivity to stimulants. So somebody who is otherwise desensitized from like heightened exposure to things that either desensitizes them to caffeine or nicotine or things of this nature, even something like the ADHD medications. This can actually, at least the literature suggests strongly that it enhances dopamine neurotransmission potential. So like almost restoring function and damaged dopamine producing neurons in the brain. So you can kind of get a heightened impact out of the same level of stimulant. So

• 3:49Speaker 03

  a caffeine dose that might otherwise be, you're used to it now, you start to feel it again more than you used to without having to increase your caffeine intake. Yeah. So it's a pretty cool ingredient and it seems to have some neuroprotective properties potentially as well. And some interesting literature on like Alzheimer's and whatnot, but it's more like fringe and to be determined how impactful it is. And then on top of that, we have L-theanine, probably familiar with its effects stacked with caffeine, increases alpha waves, good for verbal fluency as well as just general attention, concentration, but keeping you a little bit more balanced and mellow while you have the heightened stimulatory activity from the caffeine and the other kind of like dopaminergic compounds.

• 4:32Speaker 03

  And then also saffron extract, which is a totally unique inclusion, in my opinion. Still don't really see it in nootropic formulas, let alone in drinks. And it's something that in literature is shown to be as efficacious as pharmaceutical SSRIs without inducing the same erectile dysfunction inducing effects of it and without causing the same anhedonia inducing effects, which is kind of like the muting of like pleasure in the, in the brain. So.

• 5:00Joe Rogan?

  Saffron?

• 5:01Speaker 03

  Yeah. Super interesting ingredient. It seems to be pretty impactful for depression, for anti-anxiety. And it also operates through a seemingly different mechanism, even though it's often stacked up against SSRIs for its comparisons and outperforms them or matches it with a relative lack of side effects. It is something that operates through seemingly antioxidant activity, some dopaminergic, some serotoninergic, and it's just a little bit more of a benign way to achieve what is a similar outcome, but with a seemingly lower, if not negligible to nonexistent side effect profile. I'm not saying that's what our drink does. I'm just saying that's what the literature on saffron does and anyone could go look that up and reference it.

• 5:42Speaker 03

  And then who pairs the name? Probably the most impactful acetylcholinesterase inhibitor that you can include alongside like choline precursors. So it inhibits the breakdown of acetylcholine as opposed to being the fuel, like the precursor like choline, aceto, uh, alpha GPC, CDP choline. These are things that provide the substrate to actually produce the acetylcholine, preventing the breakdown of it too. Could otherwise get like a one-two punch where you get the heightened fuel substrate, but then also an inhibition of its breakdown. So you have just like a heightened level of cognitive, uh, capacity through both like the one-two punch.

• 6:19Joe Rogan?

  How did you determine these like doses and what you were going to include and not include?

• 6:27Speaker 03

  Uh, so a lot of it derived from the original capsule-based formula. So back in, I don't know, 2021, I had already been using this thing for daily use essentially. And it was something that was determined based upon years of experience, personal anecdotes, but digging through hordes of clinical literature ultimately. There's a lot of these compounds that have clinical studies on them for different applications. You can kind of sift through what are the efficacious dosages, where are they impactful? Or is a sustainable level, you could actually take this long-term without it being negatively impactful on, because sometimes if you overdo it in one area over time, it might be problematic. So trying to find the fine balance of where is a dose that moves the needle,

• 7:12Speaker 03

  but isn't going to kind of like push you in too far of a negative direction that it's unsustainable. Because sometimes that, this stuff, it's like a hammer solution. You might see an energy drink that's like 300, 350 caffeine. And it's like, okay, you know, you've essentially like singled out a lot of the customers who might otherwise benefit from it, even if there was other good stuff in the drink. It's like only stim junkies can use it now, you know? So this is kind of like the fine balance of what I thought to be the most sustainable version of balancing, you know, dopamine input, serotoninergic activity, getting some of that, you know, anti-anxiety support and also getting a reasonable hit of caffeine.

• 7:50Joe Rogan?

  And did you, so in pill form, so did you start out by using each individual supplement? And then trying to use them in combination to see if there's a synergistic effect? Like, how did you do it over time?

• 8:04Speaker 03

  I guess maybe that's a bit more interesting than digging through literature. But when I was a university student, just like being a nerd, mixing stuff in my kitchen, like a chemist essentially, and just measuring raw powders back, you know, in the day, what we would do, or at least, you know, like biohackers and what have you, we'd buy just like... Off of different websites, raw bulk ingredients, and then you'd measure it with little micro spoons in these laboratory increments to try and get, okay, the microgram equivalent of this, and you'd make some disgusting shake with a concoction of different unflavored powders and create what is your ultimate kind of combination through trial and error, ultimately.

• 8:41Joe Rogan?

  And were you, like, doing a diary, like, "Today, I feel great"?

• 8:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, I was just keeping a log, almost like, you know, working out, like, how did you respond to fill in the blank, or...

• 8:51Joe Rogan?

  And did you take into account, like, sleep, all these different factors, diet?

• 8:55Speaker 03

  As many variables at the time, obviously, a bit more rudimentary and crude when you're, like, 21 years old and you're just trying to, like, get cognitively locked in to study for finals, but back then, it was just, what is the most impactful things that I've heard work, and then also digging further into literature, looking on the limited forums that existed back then online, because it's a lot more of a, like, a niche community back then, it's not like this was widely discussed.

• 9:22Joe Rogan?

  What year was this?

• 9:23Speaker 03

  Uh, 20, 2009, 2008?

• 9:26Joe Rogan?

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• 10:10Joe Rogan?

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• 11:34Joe Rogan?

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• 12:13Joe Rogan?

  yes, obviously. So try the farmer's dog today and get 50% off your first box of fresh, healthy food. Plus, get free shipping. Just go to thefarmersdog.com/rogan. This offer is for new customers only. Early days. Yeah. That's when I first started fucking around with them. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I first found out about NeuroOne. That was the first one I found out about. Okay. Did you ever try that one? NeuroOne. It's Bill Romanowski's company, the football player. So he developed it because he was having cognitive problems after, you know, years and years of playing football.

• 12:48Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 12:48Joe Rogan?

  And so, uh, he came up with this formulation and, uh, I was doing this radio show, Allison No Name in San Francisco.

• 12:55Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 12:55Joe Rogan?

  And No Name's a dude, I forget his name unfortunately.

• 12:58Speaker 03

  Ironically, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 13:00Joe Rogan?

  So long ago, but he, uh, was working out with Romanowski. Romanowski was trying to get him in shape and he gave him this stuff and he said, hey, try it. And it was, you know, I do morning radio. When you're promoting, like I was doing Cobb's Comedy Club, whenever you're doing a comedy club, you'd show, this is back in the day when radio meant something. You'd show up in the morning and you'd do the morning drive. And, uh, they would go, oh, Joe Rogan's appearing at the comedy club this weekend, come see him and you'd be funny on the radio and have a good time with the people. And he gave it to me and I was like, hey, man, this stuff feels like something's going on. Like this is legit. And that's what really got me and that's how we developed Alpha Brain. We developed Alpha Brain after me trying out Neuro One, saying, is there, can we optimize this? Is there another way to do this?

• 13:43Joe Rogan?

  Is there, you know, other forms that we're missing and, but your formulation seems like very comprehensive and also fucking delicious.

• 13:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's one of the difficult things too, is making it taste good while still being able to suspend the active ingredients. Cause they could just fall out of suspension or

• 14:01Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 14:02Speaker 03

  Myriad of different issues.

• 14:03Joe Rogan?

  Sure.

• 14:03Speaker 03

  Carbonation problems, even exploding cans in transit that you're not predicting are gonna react a certain way. Even the black lids dude, like it's stuff you don't even think of, but it absorbing heat. It's like, oh, it's gonna be more prone to blowing up now because of that.

• 14:17Joe Rogan?

  Oh, because of a black lid?

• 14:18Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 14:18Joe Rogan?

  Did you want a black lid just for aesthetics?

• 14:20Speaker 03

  Yeah, at the time, it was like

• 14:21Joe Rogan?

  This looks cool.

• 14:22Speaker 03

  Yeah, exactly.

• 14:23Joe Rogan?

  And so what are you sweetening this stuff with?

• 14:26Speaker 03

  Uh, primarily sucralose, which obviously, you know, some people have their opinions on it and that's totally fine and good, but in general, based on clinical literature seems to be well tolerated and

• 14:37Joe Rogan?

  What is the issue with it that people have?

• 14:38Speaker 03

  I think some people think it depends on the person and like the kind of content they make typically. Typically, they have a bit of a

• 14:45Joe Rogan?

  A bias.

• 14:46Speaker 03

  Yeah, but in general, it's, you know, gonna irritate your gut or it could cause GI distress. And for some people with extremely sensitive gastrointestinal issues, it can for sure. But in general, if the dosage is used and just having it even conservatively, which most people are gonna be, it's like pretty benign, at least from the literature I've seen.

• 15:05Joe Rogan?

  One of the things that we had noticed when we first came out with AlphaBrain was for some people, it's a small amount, but for some people, they would get headaches and they felt terrible after taking it. I don't know what their dose, I don't know if they were taking the recommended dose or if they were saying, "Well, two's good, I'll take five." There's a lot of folks like that out there, but um...

• 15:27Speaker 03

  Yeah, some of these, if you're not careful, it could be, you know, pushing you into, like, we've vetted this out beforehand, but one of the first formulations or prototypes of Grelmind in the capsule form, we had something called velvet bean extract, which standardizes to L-dopa. So like levodopa is used for like Parkinson's patients, because it's a direct precursor to dopamine without a rate limiting step that kind of like in hit regulates the conversion. So rather than using tyrosine, we were like, we thought, and we didn't end up releasing it because of this, we could just go, "Okay, let's get a straight precursor and see how impactful this thing is, because we really want it to hit." And oh my god, I had like dopamine overdose myself.

• 16:11Speaker 03

  Had my girlfriend at the time also fuck herself up, and my parents fucked themselves up. And somehow, it didn't occur until like, like three incidents later, I'm like, "Okay, this thing is unsustainable." And I guess my, my business partners didn't really even think worth mentioning, which was kind of crazy at the time. Because they just trusted me to do the formulations and whatnot, but they had the same experience and didn't bring it up. And I'm like, God, it's like, we can't really do this shit. It was just like way too intense.

• 16:41Joe Rogan?

  What did it do to you?

• 16:42Speaker 03

  Just like makes you extremely nauseous. You feel like you have to keel over on a couch and just lie there until you feel like you can actually regain composure and start moving around again.

• 16:52Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 16:53Speaker 03

  Yeah, dopamine, a lot of people think more is better.

• 16:56Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 16:57Speaker 03

  You're gonna have more motivation, more drive, more, you know, the more the better is what a lot of people think, but similar to probably even worse than stimulants. Because at least stimulants, you have kind of like a direct biofeedback through your heart rate's going through the roof and you're getting the anxiety with dopamine. If you overdo it with something that you can't like rate limit either, you just like get sick and you just end up having to lie down for hours.

• 17:20Joe Rogan?

  Interesting.

• 17:21Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 17:21Joe Rogan?

  Uh, one thing I like about a drink versus a pill form is that you could just take a little.

• 17:27Speaker 03

  Yeah, you can meter your dose.

• 17:28Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, because you take a pill, you're taking a bill. That's it. You can't like, unless you want to cut pills in half or pour some of the capsule out.

• 17:35Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 17:35Joe Rogan?

  No one's doing that, but this is nice because you could just kind of sip a little bit of it. How many of these can you drink in a day?

• 17:41Speaker 03

  Uh, I could drink a lot personally. Like, you don't even want to know, dude.

• 17:46Joe Rogan?

  How many do you drink a day?

• 17:47Speaker 03

  Uh, on a typical day, probably two to three, but I could.

• 17:51Joe Rogan?

  What's recommended?

• 17:52Speaker 03

  Oh, check the warning label, bro.

• 17:55Joe Rogan?

  What does the warning label say, bro?

• 17:56Speaker 03

  I, it must say no more than two a day, but I would say on a podcast, not more than one is what I would recommend.

• 18:03Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 18:04Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 18:04Joe Rogan?

  Uh, well, especially with all that caffeine as well.

• 18:07Speaker 03

  Yeah, you never know. Um, in general, 400 milligrams is even like the FDA stated, you know, everyone's going to be okay probably dose. But in reality, it's kind of crazy. A lot of people don't realize the studies done for caffeine induced performance enhancement are all looking at like three to six milligrams a kilogram, which is like, unless you're a tiny woman. 400, 500, 600 milligrams are the doses that actually really move the needle when it comes to acute performance enhancement.

• 18:37Joe Rogan?

  Chael Sonnen used to take it in pill form.

• 18:40Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 18:41Joe Rogan?

  Because he was saying that there's a level where they'll test you, well, you'll pop. Where they'll say, okay, you're in a stimulant level, like you took a stimulant before you fought.

• 18:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, they have a, they had threshold concentrations that they would deem inappropriately high, perhaps for safety, perhaps because they thought it was an unfair advantage, it's kinda.

• 19:03Joe Rogan?

  I think that's what they were looking at.

• 19:04Speaker 03

  It kinda depends though, because I think it was removed and I don't think that threshold exists anymore except in the NCAA. I'd have to revisit it, but I'm pretty sure caffeine is like, essentially, you could go full bore at this point.

• 19:15Joe Rogan?

  Interesting. So 500, 600 milligrams was what the efficacious dose was?

• 19:21Speaker 03

  Um, so you can get performance enhancement as low as, I think, some people was like a milligram per kilogram. It depends on the person and tolerance, of course, but in general, the most tried and true studies when it comes to repeatable, high impact with a proportional relative lack of side effects, but not none, was like 3 to 6 milligrams a kilogram. And some of the studies go even higher than that.

• 19:46Joe Rogan?

  Interesting. And what, what are the benefits? Like, what did they get?

• 19:48Speaker 03

  Ah, like acute, uh, strength enhancement, um, offsetting like any sleep induced deprivation and performance outcomes mentally. You can pretty much offset like a shitty night of sleep and all the kinda detriments to your performance via a pretty solid dose of caffeine.

• 20:08Speaker 03

  Yeah, most of the stuff is kind of energy acutely offsetting performance decrement related, but also in a context of strength. High intensity activity, you can absolutely get a benefit from it and there's a reason why. You know, sprinters will take, you know, modafinil or high dose caffeine or power lifters. Power lifters will take, you know, massive doses of, you know, pre-workout before a lift or whatnot.

• 20:32Joe Rogan?

  Mm hmm.

• 20:32Speaker 03

  Like, it's all impactful for your psychological state to get really, like, locked in, in a hyper vigilant state to really max out on what you're trying to do, whatever it may be.

• 20:42Joe Rogan?

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• 21:24Joe Rogan?

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• 21:56Speaker 03

  Yeah, he's great.

• 21:57Joe Rogan?

  Great. Um, and we were talking about, uh, the impact of creatine and, you know, and they're trying to figure out, like, what is the correct dose? And a lot of people are going 20, 30. They're getting pretty high, you know, because the recommended was like five milligrams, I think.

• 22:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 22:13Joe Rogan?

  And now everyone's saying, actually, the real benefits are at 20 and, you know, at least 10. But you're getting a lot of what, what happens when people have, uh, sleep deprivation.

• 22:26Joe Rogan?

  And I'll butcher the science, so I won't try to repeat it and I recommend anybody listen to the episode. But what he was essentially saying was it bypasses all of the problems that occur. And you could at least have a bridge to uh. Your your performance would not be impeded by a lack of sleep, at least for a temporary.

• 22:45Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 22:46Joe Rogan?

  For a day or whatever.

• 22:47Speaker 03

  Yeah, definitely want to touch on that. But one thing to mention on the caffeine too is I think a lot of people when they hear the stuff like, you know. I heard you can go up to 20 grams of creatine or, you know, the high the highest impact dose in caffeine literature is, you know, three to six milligrams a kilogram. It's not like I or I imagine Chris is like blindly recommending anybody start there.

• 23:08Joe Rogan?

  Exactly.

• 23:08Speaker 03

  And it could easily get misconstrued that way in like a clipable format if people will just like hear the headline and then run with it like in. You should start as low as you can with caffeine and you could get a ergogenic effect as low as. I think the lowest dose was like 50 to 100 milligrams probably if you equated to body weight, but it's all like tolerance dependent.

• 23:28Joe Rogan?

  Mm hmm.

• 23:29Speaker 03

  It's just when you look at the studies like these are the repeatable high impact outcomes are typically in. Uh, and especially in like trained athletes who you're trying to see how hard you can push them. It's kind of like, you know, for max stress resilience, max, you know, acute force production, these are the kind of dosages that are just used in the studies. So anyway, with that caveat and same with the creatine. You know, you might shit yourself if you go to 20 right away.

• 23:51Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 23:52Speaker 03

  You don't want to start there.

• 23:53Joe Rogan?

  A lot of people do apparently.

• 23:54Speaker 03

  Yeah, and I mean like, uh, like Rhonda Patrick, amazing content and she tolerates 20 grams well. Which is kind of like surprising because I know a lot of women who don't. I think she does a probably uh, microdoses it throughout the day and is really regimented about making sure she's diligently spreading it out. But some people who they bomb 20 at a time, even guys who think they have iron stomachs.

• 24:17Joe Rogan?

  And just shit all over the place.

• 24:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 24:19Joe Rogan?

  It's like so much powder too.

• 24:20Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, yeah.

• 24:21Joe Rogan?

  Just the fact that you're consuming all this powder.

• 24:24Speaker 03

  Yeah. Oh, yeah. Speaking of which, are you still doing the like million gummies a day?

• 24:29Joe Rogan?

  Of what?

• 24:30Speaker 03

  Of creatine.

• 24:31Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 24:31Speaker 03

  You said you were gonna crank that shit up to get to 20 grams.

• 24:34Joe Rogan?

  I stopped with the gummies and I went to powdered form.

• 24:37Speaker 03

  Oh, okay.

• 24:38Joe Rogan?

  Because I felt like I'm tired of eating these fucking things.

• 24:41Speaker 03

  You got up to like, what, like 10 plus a day?

• 24:43Joe Rogan?

  Oh, more. I was eating like 15 a day.

• 24:45Speaker 03

  Holy shit, dude.

• 24:46Joe Rogan?

  15 gummies a day. But the issue is like, what else is in the gummies? You know, what are the other things?

• 24:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, they're not free of calories either. It's kind of just like, if I'm gonna eat candy, you know, I kind of want it to be like good candy.

• 24:58Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I don't even know what it's sweetened with. They taste good. But the point was, is like, I didn't like eating them. I was eating too, I'm like forcing myself to chew these things down. I'm like, what am I doing? I could just mix creatine in a glass of water, stir it up real quick and just chug it in five seconds and we're done. I don't have to chew and swallow all these stupid fucking gummies.

• 25:17Speaker 03

  I know.

• 25:17Joe Rogan?

  But I do keep them.

• 25:18Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 25:19Joe Rogan?

  I keep them around because I think it's a great thing. Like if I hadn't had enough lately, I'll just pop a few.

• 25:24Speaker 03

  It's like the best gateway drug, if you can even call it, it's not like a drug, but to get people who otherwise would never try it, to actually see the benefits of it.

• 25:32Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 25:33Speaker 03

  So like, I know so many women who literally refuse to take the powder.

• 25:37Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 25:38Speaker 03

  Even though it's kind of tasteless, it's still a nuisance, can be a little bit messy depending on the scooper or shape of it and everything and how you're gonna, trying to convince a chick like, it, trust me, it's really good for your health if you like, you know, fucking swig this thing dry and then chase it with water every day. It's not, it's not the easiest sell every time. They're like, fuck you, I don't care. So the gummies are good for that, in my opinion. And, um, yeah, I mean, we're going back to the 20 grams and the offsetting of, you know, performance deteriorations. I do think it's basically offsetting kind of the deficiencies in ATP production, especially locally in the brain and also kind of offsetting the pulling of resources away from like

• 26:23Speaker 03

  methylation support and whatnot in order to produce the endogenous creatine as well. These things can all be impactful to kind of like, get you back to almost baseline. So if you're in a deteriorated state, being able to offset the performance decrements from an otherwise, you know, sleep deprived state or, you know, you're traveling or what have you, like it can absolutely be super impactful and the literature has shown that time and time again.

• 26:45Joe Rogan?

  What's interesting is that creatine in the 1990s was thought of like steroids.

• 26:49Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 26:49Joe Rogan?

  I mean, it was really frowned upon, like, oh, my god, someone's taking creatine, they're cheating.

• 26:54Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 26:54Joe Rogan?

  It was really, that's like how it was first introduced to the market.

• 26:57Speaker 03

  You'd have to hide it from your parents when you're a teenager.

• 27:00Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 27:00Speaker 03

  Yeah. Well, at least when I was a teenager, it was kind of like, it had a taboo still. It was like, you know, kind of like steroid light version.

• 27:09Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's because it works.

• 27:10Speaker 03

  Yeah, and parents, but they hear the stigma and the taboo associated, like, I heard creatine, they're selling it at the GNCs.

• 27:17Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 27:17Speaker 03

  You know, better watch out for that one.

• 27:18Joe Rogan?

  Meanwhile, they had real steroids at GNC.

• 27:20Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, the irony too, eh?

• 27:23Joe Rogan?

  I mean, that-

• 27:23Speaker 03

  Fucking M1Ts over the counter from, you know, like, some nineteen year old kid who's just like manning the counter and doesn't care and will like fuck your endocrine system up to sell it to you.

• 27:32Joe Rogan?

  One hundred percent. I took some stuff called Mag 10. Do you remember that?

• 27:36Speaker 03

  Uh, if I saw the ingredient deck, I'm sure it's just like some fucking run of the mill M1T product or something.

• 27:42Joe Rogan?

  Gained like ten solid pounds of muscle in a month.

• 27:45Speaker 03

  And I bet your liver markers, not that you did blood work back then-

• 27:48Joe Rogan?

  Were destroyed.

• 27:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, like worse than if you took like injectable tren even.

• 27:52Joe Rogan?

  Right, right.

• 27:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's crazy.

• 27:53Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, well, one hundred percent, it killed my dick afterwards too. When I got off of it, I was like, what's going on? And I was like, oh, this is a real steroid.

• 27:59Speaker 03

  Yeah, and that's like you're not giving the PCT from the guy at the counter.

• 28:04Joe Rogan?

  I felt like a fucking gorilla when I was taking it. I felt so strong when I was taking it. I literally gained, I think it was like I was on it for five or six weeks and I gained ten solid pounds of muscle.

• 28:14Speaker 03

  The amount of people that have inadvertently gotten gynecomastia from those days when they were sold some irresponsible prohormone over the counter without like any knowledge of what they were taking, and then had to just recover naturally with no support, it's a shame.

• 28:31Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, well, there was so much of that stuff, like Werewolf Blast. There was like Dragon's Dick. It was like, you could buy them and they were just pills. They were just regular pills.

• 28:41Speaker 03

  The stimulants are crazy too, like, uh, Ephedrine was over the counter.

• 28:45Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 28:46Speaker 03

  And like, so weird, but in Canada, for-

• 28:50Speaker 03

  Relatively recently even, it was still available over the counter even though Canada is like super tight on regulation when it comes to the most weird stuff. Like when it comes to caffeine, you can't even have a can with 200 milligrams. It has to be like 180 or lower. Why exactly? I don't know. But that is the thing as well as limitations on basic amino acids. It's like tyrosine if it's more than like 10 milligrams or something.

• 29:13Joe Rogan?

  Amino acids?

• 29:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 29:15Joe Rogan?

  That's hilarious.

• 29:16Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's crazy.

• 29:17Joe Rogan?

  Like, based on what?

• 29:18Speaker 03

  Nonsense.

• 29:19Joe Rogan?

  Oh, god. Fucking nanny state.

• 29:22Speaker 03

  But anyway, so a veteran, for whatever reason, was still over the counter available in GNCs up until like a handful of years ago. And it was, you know, the best seller in GNCs and a lot of supplement stores. Not just because it worked as, you know, like a bronchodilator, but also because people were buying in bulk to make meth.

• 29:43Joe Rogan?

  I believe it. I took Rip Fuel once for jujitsu, right before jujitsu, and I had to stop in the middle of class. I was like, I gotta sit down. I pulled over to the side, I'm like, guys, my fucking heart is beating out of my chest. And I was explaining, I don't remember how many I took, but I took some Rip Fuel. I was like, well, it's good to lift with, I'll try it for jujitsu. It's fucking, for something that like really taxes your cardiovascular system, it was horrendous.

• 30:06Speaker 03

  Resting hard, I did like 120.

• 30:07Joe Rogan?

  Right away, I was tired. Like, right away. Like, right away, like we start rolling, I was like, god, I'm fucking exhausted. My heart's beating out of my chest.

• 30:15Speaker 03

  But in your brain, you're like, this feels good.

• 30:17Joe Rogan?

  No, no, I knew I fucked up. I knew, I did it once and I never did it again.

• 30:21Speaker 03

  If you're, if you're doing that sport, but for a guy who's going to the gym and is told like, this is the shit, bro.

• 30:28Joe Rogan?

  If you're just lifting, yeah. If you're just going for like max bench, that kind of shit.

• 30:32Speaker 03

  Anybody watching will know, you know, the original, have you heard of Jack 3D?

• 30:36Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I took that too.

• 30:37Speaker 03

  Yeah, shit was nuts. And what's crazy too is back then, it was proprietary blends on a lot of the products and it was still the norm with no education available, no YouTube to really tell you what to look for.

• 30:49Joe Rogan?

  Also, no oversight.

• 30:50Speaker 03

  Yeah, so these companies would basically sell you for, you know, 50 bucks, a tub of, like, a powder flavored tub of just like the stimulant. And then it was like, like, all the other ingredients for vasodilation. They're like, fuck you, you're just getting DMA, bro.

• 31:05Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you were just getting like straight meth.

• 31:08Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 31:08Joe Rogan?

  It was crazy. There was so much, th- th- those were the Wild West days of like GNCs and like local vitamin shops.

• 31:15Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 31:16Joe Rogan?

  Because you could get stuff that really worked, like, worked like something that's highly illegal.

• 31:22Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 31:22Joe Rogan?

  And you could buy it with a credit card.

• 31:23Speaker 03

  And the sales tactics were just like so ruthless, but you couldn't really prove them otherwise. It's like...

• 31:28Joe Rogan?

  Right. It was always like a pit bull with like giant muscles on the cover of it with like lightning bolts.

• 31:32Speaker 03

  Yeah. It's funny too, because some of these companies, it's like now we're in the mix competing with them on shelves or whatever, but I remember being like convinced back when I was a teenager by them, oh, you need, you know, GAKIC, LUCCIC and CREICIC and this combo that costs 250 bucks.

• 31:50Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 31:51Speaker 03

  And it's like, you know, literally, uh, pressed tablets of like Lutamine or something, at a dose that doesn't even help. And they're telling me like, this is what J. Collier used to fucking prep for the Olympia.

• 32:00Joe Rogan?

  Sure.

• 32:01Speaker 03

  Yeah. He's like, look at the before and after of Lee Priest. He lost like 50 pounds of pure fat and kept all his muscle from Celtec.

• 32:09Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that's the dirty thing about those bodybuilders back in the day is they couldn't admit that they were on gear. So they were all just telling you they were taking this stuff and then there would be spokespeople for it and it's, god, it was so deceptive.

• 32:21Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 32:22Joe Rogan?

  It was so creepy and you would have to know someone at the gym who would, you know, oh, I want to be like Lee Haney. Like, no, that's not how he got that way. Like, you gotta take the real stuff. He's, this is what he's actually taking. And so many people didn't think that those bodybuilders were on like hardcore steroids.

• 32:39Speaker 03

  Yeah, a lot of, yeah, it's a deception at a mass scale for sure. I don't think...

• 32:44Joe Rogan?

  The whole sport.

• 32:45Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 32:45Joe Rogan?

  The whole sport was just a, a complete... Like, three-card Monte game.

• 32:50Speaker 03

  Yeah. It's crazy, cuz now it's almost full circle, cuz, you know, I was back then, you know, at least at the time, when I didn't know any better, "Oh, you know, I guess this guy must be natural cuz he told me so," or whatever. And it's like, I'm skeptical, but like, and, you know, in hindsight, it's absolutely ridiculous, but now, a lot of bodybuilders are pretty forthcoming, cuz it's more normal to be transparent, and also not mislead people, and, you know, unethically sell things, and just reality-check people on the, what it's gonna take to be at that level, and is it the risk you wanna, you know, subject yourself to? Cuz back in the day, too, it was like, you didn't know if you had good genetics or not, when it came to certain dosage responses, so you would like, always think, the next

• 33:35Speaker 03

  guy's just taking more than you. And it would result in guys, unspokenly, thinking, "This guy must just be taking 5X the amount of shit I'm on, so I need to go to like, 5 to 10 grams of total gear per week now." And you were just like, that's what led to so many early deaths in bodybuilding, too, so.

• 33:54Joe Rogan?

  I think there's another thing, another factor, is that the consequences of lying and getting caught now are huge. Because if you lose all credibility, and people know that you're just a bullshit artist-

• 34:05Speaker 03

  Yeah, that too.

• 34:06Joe Rogan?

  And then, they'll never trust you again. Like, you have one chance to tell the truth forever.

• 34:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 34:13Joe Rogan?

  And the moment you violate that, you're always a liar.

• 34:16Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 34:16Joe Rogan?

  And that's, that's a giant fucking issue with, with, whether it's actors, or anybody.

• 34:22Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 34:22Joe Rogan?

  You know, like, all these guys who prep for roles, and they're, they're talking about it now. Like, "Oh, I took Anavar, I took this." Like, Mickey Rourke did, when he was talking about that movie, The Wrestler. You know, I remember, they were asking him on whatever talk show he was on, he's like, "Oh, I fucking took everything. What are you talking about? I took..."

• 34:38Speaker 03

  That guy was a pioneer of interviews for that kinda stuff.

• 34:41Joe Rogan?

  Well, he's a wild dude. He'll tell the truth. Yeah, but you have one chance to tell the truth forever.

• 34:46Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 34:46Joe Rogan?

  You violate that, and you're always gonna be a bullshit artist.

• 34:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, a guy who's pretty good about that now is Frank Gorillo.

• 34:52Joe Rogan?

  Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 34:53Speaker 03

  He was doing some like, men's health thing. And I have never seen men's health talk about steroids, forthcomingly.

• 35:01Joe Rogan?

  Interesting.

• 35:01Speaker 03

  Yeah, so they had him on in a sit-down interview, and they were like, "So, you know, what's it take to be..."

• 35:05Joe Rogan?

  Is this recent?

• 35:06Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's like, last year, within the last year.

• 35:09Joe Rogan?

  Oh, right.

• 35:09Speaker 03

  If not, months ago.

• 35:10Joe Rogan?

  Is this when he was talking about Anavar?

• 35:12Speaker 03

  Yeah, and he talked about his TRT protocol and kinda like the realities of how impactful it actually is and improving his performance and how it makes him feel and he was just like pretty non-trigger coded about it.

• 35:23Joe Rogan?

  Well, he's a good example because he was clean for a long time.

• 35:27Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 35:27Joe Rogan?

  Like, he had like very low testosterone because he was just going on willpower. He was really just, just working out on willpower. Uh, Axius Star lifts the lid on fitness recovery and the reality behind the scenes physiques. Frank Gill, 60, gets real about Hollywood steroid use, they all do it. Well, that is a fact. But he was not on anything for a long time, like deep into his 50s. And he got his testosterone ta- he's good friends with Brian Callen. And, uh, you know, he got his testosterone taken and it was fucking nothing. He had like zero. But he was just very disciplined and working out hard. But he didn't look like he was on gear. He just looked like he was ripped. He was like shredded. He was like in really good shape because he trained every fucking day and he was doing a lot of boxing.

• 36:10Joe Rogan?

  So a lot of like heavy caloric expenditure, a lot of like long rounds, hitting the back, hitting mids, doing sparring. You know, you're gonna burn off so much calories and also you're gonna like your, your metabolism is gonna be like completely jacked.

• 36:24Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 36:24Joe Rogan?

  So then for him to talk about, okay, now I got on this and then I got on that and this is the improvements in my sleep, my mood, everything got better. Cause, you know, he's talking- This episode is brought to you by Chime. And I know people don't usually get excited about banking, but Chime is doing something different and it's worth paying attention to. In a recent survey, they ranked the number one choice for new checking accounts in America. That means real people, millions of them, are choosing this over traditional banks. That's because banking at Chime is fee free. No monthly fees, no overdraft fees and thousands of fee free ATMs. But here's the real kicker. If you get their Chime card, it gives you 5% cash back on a category you actually pick

• 37:09Joe Rogan?

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• 37:35Joe Rogan?

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• 38:20Joe Rogan?

  Don't have insurance or live outside of the United States? You can still get 10% off your first month. Visit betterhelp.com to explore your payment options. That's better H E L P dot com. About it was like his testosterone, when he got it tested, was super low.

• 38:36Speaker 03

  Yeah. Yeah, it's probably one of the few examples, actually, still to this day, though, of somebody being like really transparent. I actually saw The Rock talking about peptide use recently, which was kind of like a...

• 38:48Joe Rogan?

  Interesting.

• 38:50Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 38:50Joe Rogan?

  Dipping his toes in the water.

• 38:53Speaker 03

  Yeah, exactly.

• 38:54Joe Rogan?

  Well, he's lost a ton of weight, man.

• 38:55Speaker 03

  Oh, dude, yeah.

• 38:56Joe Rogan?

  He's kind of crazy.

• 38:58Speaker 03

  Yeah, and there's a lot of speculation about if it's like a health thing or what, but I don't know. That's tough to know because he just had the role where he gained the most eyes he ever has, too.

• 39:08Joe Rogan?

  Right, right, but that, God, that had to be terrible for him.

• 39:11Speaker 03

  Oh, for sure. But it's like, would you have subjected yourself to that if you knew? I don't know if he would have known, but you would have think proactively he would know how close he is to kind of like an issue, being...

• 39:23Joe Rogan?

  Probably pretty close, 50 years old and getting up to 300 pounds.

• 39:27Speaker 03

  Yeah, I just mean, I think he probably had more preventative screening before that role to know he could even subject himself to it without dying because it's like a pretty risky endeavor to go become the biggest you've ever been at that age. So to then downsize after, the theory is that he was literally about to die essentially, so that's why he lost so much weight now. And I'm thinking... I think maybe he's just like trying to take like a health phase and kinda like come down and wait for a bit and he'll probably like crank it back up.

• 39:59Joe Rogan?

  Honestly, I think just, and this is pure speculation, I haven't talked to him about this. I think based on what he tried to do with the smashing machine, I think he's trying to win an Oscar. He's trying to be a real actor, because he was really good in that movie. Did you see it?

• 40:15Speaker 03

  Uh, not yet, planning on it though.

• 40:17Joe Rogan?

  It's the best mixed martial arts movie ever. That's not saying a lot because they all suck. But it is the, it's the most accurate in terms of historical matches. Like, they, they had all the matches like with Igor Vavchenin, all these different people that he fought, that Mark Kerr actually fought. And it's just a good movie. It's a really good movie. Like, like Emily Blunt plays his crazy girlfriend, and she's out of her fucking mind. And to the point where like, they're arguing right before he fights and you're getting anxiety watching like, oh Jesus fucking Christ. It's just such a crazy, toxic relationship. It is Emily Blunt, right? I didn't fuck that up, did I? That is, she's fucking great in it too. It's just a really good movie.

• 41:01Joe Rogan?

  That I think would have gotten a lot more credit if it wasn't a mixed martial arts movie. Because I think, you know, mixed martial arts movies like, oh, it's some fucking meathead, like rah rah rah, you know, bullshit.

• 41:13Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 41:13Joe Rogan?

  Movie, but it's, it's a very good movie and he is Mark Kerr.

• 41:18Speaker 03

  Oh, he looks so accurate.

• 41:20Joe Rogan?

  So good. He, he just, and, and not just the fighting stuff, man, the fighting stuff was great, but the acting stuff. Like, he played that guy and I know Mark. I was like, fuck, that's Mark. That's nuts. It was so good. It was a really good movie. So I, what I think he's doing is the same thing Baptista's doing. Dave Baptista.

• 41:39Speaker 03

  But reversed.

• 41:40Joe Rogan?

  Well, Dave Baptista lost a lot of weight too.

• 41:42Speaker 03

  I, yeah, but I guess I mean like typically when actors are trying to get taken more seriously for more impactful like artistic, creative roles. It's almost like the jacked meathead guy downsizes to do something more, you know, like. I don't know, artsy?

• 41:57Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 41:58Speaker 03

  But like, this is getting as yoked as possible in order to be the art.

• 42:02Joe Rogan?

  Right, right, right.

• 42:03Speaker 03

  Whereas Batista's like, fully downsized, I think, now.

• 42:06Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but I think, what I'm saying is now, what he's doing now, I think he's probably trying to get different kinds of roles. Roles where like, I mean, have you ever met him?

• 42:15Speaker 03

  No.

• 42:16Joe Rogan?

  He was like a superhero. He looks like a superhero. Like, we, we worked out together. He came to the gym and I brought a bunch of comedians, we worked out and hung out. Like, Tony Hinchcliffe was in his glory, because, you know, he loves pro wrestling. We're all in the sauna together, hanging out with The Rock.

• 42:27Speaker 03

  It was the first time he, he probably still doesn't know that he uses gear.

• 42:30Joe Rogan?

  What's that?

• 42:31Speaker 03

  He probably still doesn't know that he uses gear.

• 42:32Joe Rogan?

  What do you mean?

• 42:33Speaker 03

  Hinchcliffe is just like-

• 42:35Joe Rogan?

  Oh, Hinchcliffe doesn't know that he, oh, he knows he uses gear?

• 42:37Speaker 03

  I still remember the episode where he was dumbfounded that you and Job thought that he was doing anything.

• 42:45Joe Rogan?

  Tony Hinch-

• 42:45Speaker 03

  The Rock, seriously?

• 42:46Joe Rogan?

  He is locked into being a 12-year-old pro wrestling fan for the rest of his life. It's like a religious thing for him. It's like, you know, Mary was a virgin. You know, she, she gave birth to Jesus. Like, I'm not kidding. Like, he, he fucking loves pro wrestling so much that he is completely locked in.

• 43:07Speaker 03

  He's a good example, though, of like, a reasonably in-the-know guy who has friends in the space, too. Like, you and, you know, Shob know about this stuff. And even Heyu was like surprised that you guys thought that, at the time.

• 43:19Joe Rogan?

  It's funny. It is funny when you think about it.

• 43:22Speaker 03

  So imagine just the average person, they probably, you know.

• 43:24Joe Rogan?

  Right. And also, he's, you know, been very coy about it and saying, actually, not really coy, probably deceptive, right?

• 43:31Speaker 03

  Just like strategically perfect in his tact when it comes to avoiding it.

• 43:36Joe Rogan?

  Yes. That's, that's the best way to describe it. Instead of saying, "I've never taken any steroids," he's kind of like, "Look over there."

• 43:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, exactly.

• 43:45Joe Rogan?

  But everybody who knows, knows. You know, it's one of those things. It's like, you look at him, you're like, "There's no way. There's, there's no way. There's just no way."

• 43:53Speaker 03

  I think, I, I can't imagine talking about peptides and putting the feelers out there would not eventually transition to like, you know. It's, it was recommended to me by my doctor to be on, you know, hormone support or whatever.

• 44:04Joe Rogan?

  100%.

• 44:05Speaker 03

  Yeah, like, I mean, you're kind of in that realm talking about it at this point, you know.

• 44:09Joe Rogan?

  Just come out and say it. I've always just come out and said it. I don't, I don't see any problem with it. But I don't have that kind of a reputation. Like the problem with like being, the pro wrestling thing is like you're, you're a role model for the youth and you know, you have to, especially a guy like that. He's a giant movie star. You don't want to be telling everybody you're on gear.

• 44:30Speaker 03

  He probably wasn't for like a big chunk of his early career.

• 44:33Joe Rogan?

  His early career, right. Yeah. His early career, I don't think he was.

• 44:36Speaker 03

  I guess the problem is when you're like, when I really became successful is when I just sauce my face off.

• 44:40Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's the thing. When he became a superhero. I mean, the first time I met him, he had cowboy boots on, so he's even taller. And he just looked like a fucking brick shithouse. I'm like, but they're not even a real person. This isn't a real person. This is a superhero.

• 44:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. I, uh, yeah, it's crazy dude. But I think he's still jacked. It's just proportionally to relative to what he was. You know, it's kind of like, anybody who used to be a bodybuilder or had significant amounts of size, even me, like people in my videos are like, where are you? You know, you've lost everything. And it's like, okay, I'm not like non-existent anymore. I'm just like not a bodybuilder anymore. You know what I mean?

• 45:16Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 45:17Speaker 03

  So if with him, it's like, he's still yoked. He's like 230, 240 or whatever.

• 45:21Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. The thing is like super gear heads will always criticize, oh, you look like a fucking chick now. They get crazy. They said that about Batista too, but he's like 240.

• 45:32Speaker 03

  I think he's just gonna stop wearing like the weird tapered Gucci suits. It just makes him look a little bit more slender than, uh, it's not complimentary to his, uh, he's still jacked too.

• 45:42Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but it does, it is complimentary if you didn't know what he used to look like.

• 45:46Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 45:47Joe Rogan?

  That's what's crazy. Like you look at him, the guy looks fucking great.

• 45:50Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. Yeah, objectively, if you just look at it with no baseline.

• 45:54Joe Rogan?

  Like pull up a photo of Dave Batista now.

• 45:57Speaker 03

  And he's also just getting older. Like there's gotta be some level where you get acceptance of like, okay, you're allowed to downsize so you don't die.

• 46:03Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you could die. That's the thing. You're, if you're pushing gear at that age. So there's, yeah, like look at Batista on the right. You wouldn't say that's a small guy. You know, that's not a small guy. He's a big fucking dude, but he's just slimmer now. He looks like, like if you saw an Emmet, like Alex Pereira, you don't think Alex Pereira is small.

• 46:24Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 46:25Joe Rogan?

  But, you know, he's two hundred and fucking forty pounds.

• 46:28Speaker 03

  Yeah, if he was bodybuilding for a while and then decided to convert to, you know, MMA.

• 46:32Joe Rogan?

  That's the thing. But he also got, like, that's what he looks like now. Like, that's not a small guy.

• 46:37Speaker 03

  Yeah, and he's like, I don't know how old, but I mean.

• 46:39Joe Rogan?

  That's twenty twenty-five. He's gotta be fifty, fifty-six, fifty-six. So that's, he's fucking shredded. He looks fucking gigantic.

• 46:46Speaker 03

  Yeah. Yeah, I think he actually did a role recently where he bulked up, now that I think about it. He went to like, it was like fat weight too, which is crazy.

• 46:55Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that was that, uh, God, Glass Onion? Was that what it was called? There was some, some movie that he did. It was a really good movie. It was a movie where like some billionaire had everybody come to his island for some crazy party and there was a murder. What was that called?

• 47:16Joe Rogan?

  That was Glass Onion, right? He was huge for Glass Onion. He got gigantic. He got big for something else too. But I, I think he was like playing, I don't remember what his role was, but playing some former athlete or something along those lines.

• 47:30Speaker 03

  Yeah, he was housy dude.

• 47:31Joe Rogan?

  It's weird when you get really big for a movie that sucks. You know what I mean? Or kill yourself for a movie that sucks.

• 47:38Speaker 03

  Yeah, I hope it did well, like, Jesus.

• 47:40Joe Rogan?

  Uh, Christian Bale did that for The Machinist. He almost died.

• 47:43Speaker 00

  Seventy-five pounds he gained for Knock at the Cabin.

• 47:46Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that's what it is. Not, what was that movie? Show me what that looked like.

• 47:50Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 47:52Joe Rogan?

  Knock at the Cabin. What was that movie?

• 47:54Speaker 00

  It's a horror movie on, I did not watch it.

• 47:58Joe Rogan?

  Wow. A hor- horror movie, huh?

• 48:04Speaker 03

  Do you watch horror movies ever?

• 48:05Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah, I love a good horror movie. He was three fifteen?

• 48:08Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 48:08Joe Rogan?

  Jesus. So now he's two forty. Yeah, it's much, much more sustainable. Yeah, but that's like a weird weight. That's like, what the fuck did he eat to get that big? And again, he probably did that at like fifty-two, which is fucking dangerous.

• 48:20Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 48:20Joe Rogan?

  You probably got sleep apnea, you're all fucked up, yeah.

• 48:23Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 48:24Speaker 00

  Charlize Theron did that too recently.

• 48:25Joe Rogan?

  She did it for Monster.

• 48:26Speaker 00

  I know, no, again.

• 48:27Joe Rogan?

  She did it again?

• 48:28Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 48:28Joe Rogan?

  Oh, don't do that, Charlize. Oh, God, that's real?

• 48:33Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 48:33Joe Rogan?

  What is it for?

• 48:34Speaker 00

  I forget the movie. I just saw this photo the other day.

• 48:38Joe Rogan?

  I think some women, they're probably like, a lady like her, they're probably like, Tully?

• 48:42Speaker 00

  I don't know what that is.

• 48:43Speaker 03

  Might not even be new, but I just saw.

• 48:45Joe Rogan?

  It's such a flex, when you're a hot lady, to get fat and gross, and like when she did Monsters, she shaved her eyebrows off.

• 48:52Speaker 03

  Did you see the Sydney Sweeney, like boxing?

• 48:55Joe Rogan?

  I didn't see that.

• 48:56Speaker 03

  Not that she got fat and gross, but like, she gained some weight.

• 48:59Joe Rogan?

  Did she?

• 49:00Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 49:00Joe Rogan?

  That movie got zero attention, the Christie Martin movie.

• 49:04Speaker 03

  Oh yeah?

• 49:04Joe Rogan?

  Cause it was like three decades past when anybody gave a shit.

• 49:08Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 49:09Joe Rogan?

  You know what I mean?

• 49:09Speaker 03

  I, I at least got the impression, I haven't watched it, so I could be way off base, that it was kinda like one of those artistic, kinda like.

• 49:16Joe Rogan?

  Probably was.

• 49:16Speaker 03

  Look at my versatility in roles kinda thing.

• 49:20Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, how would Sydney Sweeney look like in that movie? Did she gain weight? They might have put her in a fat suit.

• 49:25Speaker 03

  Well, they said she gained like thirty pounds of muscle or something, which is like the typical headline nonsense.

• 49:30Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, horseshit.

• 49:31Speaker 03

  Yeah, but she definitely like, you know, took it seriously and gained the weight that she needed to, to look whatever the role was, for sure.

• 49:38Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's such a weird thing, the, the acting world, you have to like change your, like, Robert De Niro was the first guy to do it, for Raging Bull.

• 49:46Speaker 03

  You remember, uh, Tom Cruise in, uh?

• 49:50Joe Rogan?

  Tropic Thunder?

• 49:51Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 49:51Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but that was a fat suit.

• 49:52Speaker 03

  Well, oh yeah, yeah.

• 49:53Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I mean, cause they, they made his forearms fat, and they shaved his head, he was fucking great in that movie.

• 49:58Speaker 03

  Sick movie, yeah.

• 49:59Joe Rogan?

  Oh fuck, what a movie, that was the last bang before woke.

• 50:03Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 50:03Joe Rogan?

  That was the last movie that you could ever do like that before woke kicked in, and essentially ruined great comedies, cause you couldn't go too far, you can't do that anymore, you just get in trouble.

• 50:14Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's like back then, if you were to ask, okay, you know, have a hit list of just like, ready to laugh your ass off movies, that are just like low effort, you don't have to think too much, you can just sit down and enjoy, there's a bunch of bangers from back then, but it's like nowadays, I don't even know what to go to.

• 50:31Joe Rogan?

  They don't happen anymore.

• 50:32Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 50:32Joe Rogan?

  Like the Farrelly Brothers movies, like Kingpin, fucking great movie, you know, there's so much, Something About Mary, there's so many of those like outrageous hysterical movies that, it was funny, I asked Robert Downey Jr., I was like, I go, you couldn't do blackface in a movie today, he goes, oh, you could do it. But what would happen afterwards is the big deal. He got it in like, like, it's like the scene in a movie where the elevator door closes right before the monster gets there.

• 51:02Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 51:03Joe Rogan?

  He got there just in time. And like, it was perfect timing where he didn't suffer from it.

• 51:09Speaker 03

  No, yeah, it's, uh, crazy to see the Delta and just like, I don't even know what to watch when I go on Netflix now.

• 51:14Joe Rogan?

  Well, with comedies, it's really fucking hard. It's really hard. The only thing that's really wild and free is stand-up comedy. Like, to, to do a comedy movie and just go full Tropic Thunder is almost impossible today.

• 51:31Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 51:32Joe Rogan?

  But if somebody did it, if somebody just self-financed it, oh my god, it would fucking kill. It would make so much money and then it would open up the floodgates, because people still want that. You know, they still lo- like, it's, it's not that you agree with everything these people are saying and doing.

• 51:47Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 51:48Joe Rogan?

  It's comedy, like, I don't agree with John Wick killing everybody. You know what I mean? Like, but he's not really killing everybody. Like, it's a fucking movie. And it used to be that you knew that when you went into these movies, before everybody was like, looking for everything to potentially be offended by.

• 52:03Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 52:04Joe Rogan?

  It's just like ruined everything.

• 52:06Speaker 03

  What do you watch now?

• 52:07Joe Rogan?

  Oh, I don't watch comedies anymore.

• 52:09Speaker 03

  But like, just in general, do you have any like, kind of just like, low barrier, just I sit down, turn my brain off?

• 52:15Joe Rogan?

  Oh, there's a lot of great stuff. You know what I watched last night, Jamie, you recommended? Uh, Pluribus, is that what it's called?

• 52:22Speaker 00

  I only watched the first episode, but yeah, what a weird show, right?

• 52:25Joe Rogan?

  Holy shit is it good.

• 52:27Speaker 00

  Right up your alley, yeah.

• 52:28Joe Rogan?

  Holy shit is it good. It's a new Apple show. And I don't want to give away too much, but it, it, it has something to do with aliens. And aliens send a transmission to Earth and there's this like, this insane impact on society. But it's like, fucking total left-field movie. You don't see it coming. It's crazy, or not movie, television show. Uh, uh, and again, I, like Jamie, I've only seen the first episode, but it's great. It's like, holy shit, it's giving you anxiety. It's so good.

• 53:00Speaker 03

  Did you guys watch, uh, what was that other Apple show that was really good? It was like, in an office setting. I can't believe I'm forgetting.

• 53:06Joe Rogan?

  Severance.

• 53:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 53:07Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 53:07Speaker 03

  Did you guys watch that?

• 53:08Joe Rogan?

  Severance is great, especially the first episode, or the first season. First season was great. After a while, they get a little weird. Cause you're like, you're running this very strange game that you're doing. These people remember and don't remember and like, and then you fuck him with the guy's head so he can remember and they.

• 53:25Speaker 03

  Yeah. What about Stranger Things and It? Those are two that my girlfriend has me watching right now.

• 53:31Joe Rogan?

  I watched the first episode of Stranger Things last night as well, or yesterday as well. That was great. Yeah.

• 53:38Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's a, dude, it's kinda crazy how much time is between these seasons now. It's like you finish, I almost like can't, oh, don't wanna commit to something, cause it's like, well, if I like it.

• 53:47Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 53:48Speaker 03

  Fuck you to me, you know?

• 53:50Joe Rogan?

  Fuck you for the next three years, for the next season. Game of Thrones, it's a great example of that.

• 53:55Speaker 03

  Oh dude, House of Dragons, like, good luck seeing the next season, bro.

• 53:58Joe Rogan?

  Well, not only that, like, unfortunately with House of Dragons, it's gotta follow Game of Thrones, which is like one of the best series of all time. And the characters just aren't as compelling, for whatever reason. And so, I don't know who the fuck anybody is. So the new season starts, I'm like, who's that?

• 54:14Speaker 03

  Yeah, and maybe I just have like monkey brain, but I'm watching, I'm like, I didn't see a dragon the whole fucking episode.

• 54:20Joe Rogan?

  I need a dragon.

• 54:21Speaker 03

  I feel ripped off.

• 54:21Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I need a dragon, I need that dragon to fucking kill somebody. I need to burn somebody alive. Yeah, it's, uh, there's a lot of great shows now, but, but again, it, you, you can only, it's very hard to make a great comedy. You can make a great, like, mindless entertainment, like, fun show. Slow Horses, that's a great show. That's a, is that an Apple show? I believe it is, yeah. That's another Apple show. With Gary Oldman, it's a spy, uh, uh, MI, M5 or MI, what is it, MI5? What do they call themselves? MI5?

• 54:55Speaker 00

  The numbers of the person, I think it's, uh, whatever, I don't know.

• 54:59Joe Rogan?

  Whatever it is. It's a spy show. British spy show, that's a really good show too. Yeah, I mean, there's, there's a lot of great shows to watch, like, there's, I think it's probably the best time ever for content, if you just wanna sit and be entertained. It's probably the best time ever, because the screen, streaming, cause streaming, instead of, you know, one episode, you're watching a show and it takes place over an hour, and then the next episode is totally different, a totally different subject line, different story. No, it's like the thing, you get, you get locked into these characters, like Sopranos, I think was like the first one to really do that excellently. And drag it out over, you know, many, many seasons, where you have this like running storyline.

• 55:42Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, it's uh, I'm kinda just like tuned out of TV at this point, I just watch what my girlfriend wants to watch and Stranger Things and It is the thing right now.

• 55:52Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I watched the new It show. Yeah, I watched the first episode of that too, that looks great.

• 55:56Speaker 03

  It's like oddly overlapping with the Stranger Things, I feel like I'm kinda watching the same show.

• 56:00Joe Rogan?

  Kind of.

• 56:01Speaker 03

  Like, obviously totally different overall stories, but like, you know, you have kids and these kinda like.

• 56:07Joe Rogan?

  And evil things.

• 56:09Speaker 03

  And, yeah, I don't wanna like wreck an episode, but they mentioned It, not specifically It, but a story about like an extraterrestrial evil being called It in a Stranger Things episode. I'm like, this is a weird fucking reference for these being at the same time right now.

• 56:25Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, well, they probably didn't plan that out, right?

• 56:27Speaker 03

  Yeah, I don't, I don't know, man.

• 56:29Joe Rogan?

  What is it called, Welcome to Dairy? Is that what it's called?

• 56:31Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 56:32Joe Rogan?

  The new one? But it's good, that's good too.

• 56:35Speaker 03

  The release date scheduling makes absolutely no sense for Stranger Things 2, it's like in batches and the next batch is coming out on Christmas.

• 56:42Joe Rogan?

  And then the final one is New Years.

• 56:44Speaker 03

  New Years? It's like the exact times you like probably can't bang out all the episodes or like, you're gonna have to force your family to sit there with you and.

• 56:53Speaker 00

  What's that? High school kids can.

• 56:54Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, high school kids can.

• 56:56Speaker 00

  Their vacations.

• 56:56Joe Rogan?

  Well, I think Stranger Things is so big, they could fucking make it so you can only watch it at 3 o'clock in the morning and it would still get 30 million views.

• 57:03Speaker 03

  But like, just such a weird choice, I don't know.

• 57:06Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's just weird that it takes so long to make one of those damn things, that you have to wait three years in between seasons. And then you have these kids that are playing 15 year olds, now they're fucking 30.

• 57:18Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 57:18Joe Rogan?

  It's kinda weird.

• 57:19Speaker 03

  You can tell some of them, it's like, how do we make you look as young as possible?

• 57:23Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm, yeah, you give them goofy haircuts and, and then there's also like, spoiler alert, there's some computer generated imaging. So they're using some sort of an AI program to make scenes with the kids when they were young.

• 57:37Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 57:38Joe Rogan?

  And you kinda can tell, but you kinda can't tell, it's like really good.

• 57:41Speaker 03

  Yeah. Yeah, nowadays, it's like you feel like you could just AI generate the whole thing, but.

• 57:46Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Well, it's getting close, you know, it's getting to the point where, you know, there's no excuse for waiting three years because you could have AI generate scripts and do it in an hour.

• 57:59Speaker 03

  What about F1? You guys following it at all right now?

• 58:02Joe Rogan?

  The show or the actual racing?

• 58:03Speaker 03

  No, just the actual racing.

• 58:05Joe Rogan?

  I went to the F1 that was in Austin. It was amazing.

• 58:07Speaker 03

  This year?

• 58:08Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 58:08Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 58:09Joe Rogan?

  It's awesome.

• 58:10Speaker 03

  For, I think, right now, it's the first time in the last 15 years, they've had three drivers coming down to the final race to win the championship between them, and the final race is this weekend.

• 58:23Joe Rogan?

  Oh, really?

• 58:24Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's like.

• 58:25Joe Rogan?

  Where is it?

• 58:25Speaker 03

  Uh, I think it's in Abu Dhabi. I don't know. That might have been the race that just happened, but it was nuts, dude. It's, uh, because right now you had McLaren, who was like a shoe-in, to have their main driver, or at least the guy who was in the lead, take it, but they're refusing to favor one over the other, which is a typical strategy for whoever's in the lead. You'll have the other one kind of like block people for them to make sure they win the driver's championship.

• 58:49Joe Rogan?

  They're refusing to do that?

• 58:50Speaker 03

  Yeah, they're like making sure they can have equal opportunities to win, but the net result might now be none of them win, and a guy from Red Bull takes the thing.

• 58:58Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that's crazy. Is it because the drivers aren't willing to do that?

• 59:03Speaker 03

  Uh, I guess, but also just lack of enforcement from the pit boss, like team guy, who's like supposed to be enforcing team principles and whatnot.

• 59:12Joe Rogan?

  It is kind of funky that that's how you win. You have someone, it's a team game?

• 59:18Speaker 03

  I mean, like, there's a, there's team-generated points between the two drivers, which can result in the, uh, like, team championship.

• 59:26Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 59:27Speaker 03

  But the thing that most people actually care about is who's the best driver in the world.

• 59:31Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 59:32Speaker 03

  And that will be coming down to one person, even if it's a guy from a team that won the thing. They're still competing against each other, and sometimes it can get pretty reckless where they're, you know, one is not willing to compromise, and he'll like blow the whole thing up to make sure that he has the best opportunity, understandably, but it's also like, you guys are getting paid tens of millions of dollars, maybe you should listen to your fucking. Guy who's telling you what to do.

• 59:55Joe Rogan?

  This is an ad for BetterHelp. The holidays come with a lot of traditions. Gathering with family, cooking those once a year recipes, and leaning into the little rituals that bring everyone together. That's something I always look forward to. But there's another tradition I think we should all start doing during the holidays, and that's taking some time for ourselves. This season, you do so many things for the other people in your life. You plan get togethers around everyone's schedule. You spend hours picking out the right gifts and cooking the right food. But you also deserve just as much attention. Otherwise, you'll burn yourself out. So do yourself a favor and take some me time. Go on a hunting trip, have a quiet night with a book, maybe even schedule a session with a therapist.

• 1:00:39Joe Rogan?

  Therapy is an extremely effective way to make sure you're focusing on what you need. And BetterHelp can easily set you up. They have access to a wide network of fully qualified therapists, and they do a lot of the work for you. Even if that first match isn't a good fit, you can easily switch to another therapist. This December, start a new tradition by taking care of you. Our listeners get 10% off at betterhelp.com/jre. That's better H E L P dot com slash J R E. Yeah, I get it. But then, again, if you're on another team, you're like, well, this is kind of bullshit. Because this guy didn't really win the race. He won the race because his friends blocked everybody.

• 1:01:24Speaker 03

  Yeah, fair enough. But I mean, like, part of it is kind of like that. That's like part of the strategy.

• 1:01:30Joe Rogan?

  Oh, I get it. I get it. But maybe we should abandon that strategy. Because if it is a race.

• 1:01:36Speaker 03

  Yeah, I guess it's just problematic because it's so bandwidth intensive too, to manage the two drivers that if they're equally trying to win and only one is more likely to. What may very well happen on this weekend is they both don't win.

• 1:01:51Joe Rogan?

  Interesting.

• 1:01:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, so.

• 1:01:53Joe Rogan?

  I got a tour of the McLaren pit last year and they showed me like all the different technology that's involved. And they gave me a rundown of how much engineering is involved in these things and explained everything. It's crazy and they're all just trying to shave tenths of seconds out of turns and then it all accumulates over the the course of the race.

• 1:02:15Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's like pretty psychotic when you look at what the differential is and kind of like what really separates these guys, it's often just like miniscule amounts and just like the littlest mistake, you know.

• 1:02:28Joe Rogan?

  What are those guys on? That's what I want to know. Do they test them?

• 1:02:32Speaker 03

  Uh, they are tested, but not to the rigor of like an Olympic.

• 1:02:38Joe Rogan?

  Do they test them for gorilla mine?

• 1:02:40Speaker 03

  I'm sure they're probably using it.

• 1:02:42Joe Rogan?

  This is probably a good thing for them to take.

• 1:02:45Speaker 03

  Probably for something that's not banned, yeah, but um.

• 1:02:48Joe Rogan?

  Is any of this stuff banned, do you think in Formula One?

• 1:02:50Speaker 03

  None of it. This is all like very straight edge, uh, like really tried and true new tropics that work through kind of like endogenous pathways or things that otherwise backfill neurotransmitters similar to like the creatine deficiency that we talked about. If you backfill it and you can otherwise, you know, have a readily available source of phosphocreatine to offset ATP deficits. L-tyrosine, stuff like that, similar just in regards to dopamine, for example.

• 1:03:18Joe Rogan?

  I'm an hour in and I feel it. It's legit. Yeah, it's very legit. And again, it's very delicious. So congratulations on that.

• 1:03:25Speaker 03

  Oh, thank you.

• 1:03:25Joe Rogan?

  Um, those guys lose a ton of weight too during those races.

• 1:03:28Speaker 03

  Oh dude, so much water loss.

• 1:03:30Joe Rogan?

  Cause you're fucking hot as shit in those suits so you don't burn alive if you crash.

• 1:03:33Speaker 03

  Yeah, so new, different strategies like hyperhydration, using things like liquid glycerol could be impactful to retain more water.

• 1:03:41Joe Rogan?

  Do they wear a diaper?

• 1:03:42Speaker 03

  I don't know, but uh.

• 1:03:44Joe Rogan?

  How long is the race?

• 1:03:45Speaker 03

  Um, it could be, it kinda, I think it depends, but it's like upwards of an hour, an hour and a half, so.

• 1:03:51Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, just piss yourself.

• 1:03:53Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:03:53Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, just sit in your own pee for an hour and a half. Yeah, you would have to. I would imagine with that kinda money on the line, just fucking let it go, baby.

• 1:04:02Speaker 03

  Yeah, I don't even know if you'd have to though, if you're just like perspiring like a motherfucker. They come out drenched.

• 1:04:07Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:04:08Speaker 03

  Yeah, and they've lost like tons of weight, yeah.

• 1:04:10Joe Rogan?

  But sometimes in the, in the sauna, I have to pee.

• 1:04:13Speaker 03

  Oh yeah?

• 1:04:14Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, sometimes I'm like fifteen minutes into a sauna session, I'm like, god damn it, I can't hold it. So I gotta go, open the door and go out and piss outside, then climb back in again.

• 1:04:22Speaker 03

  Have you ever tried glycerol for hyperhydration?

• 1:04:25Joe Rogan?

  No, what is that?

• 1:04:26Speaker 03

  It's uh, just like straight up glycerol, it's like a, a sugar, but it also has a hyperhydrating effect that you can hold upwards of an extra pound of body water if you have it as a supplement, so some endurance athletes will use it before events in order to retain more uh, water in a way that is not, it enhances like thermal regulation, your ability to tolerate stress, you don't lose as mu- you don't dehydrate as fast. There's a lot of upsides for, it's kinda like a unique application, maybe even avoiding pissing at nighttime, could be used.

• 1:04:58Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 1:04:58Speaker 03

  Potentially, yeah.

• 1:04:59Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that would help, cause I always have to pee. Yeah, one thing that's, that helps me uh, is sauna before bed though. Sauna before bed, I can generally sleep through the night.

• 1:05:09Speaker 03

  Oh yeah?

• 1:05:09Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, so I'll do like a session about an hour before I go to sleep, and no water after that.

• 1:05:15Speaker 03

  Oh yeah.

• 1:05:15Joe Rogan?

  That usually does it.

• 1:05:16Speaker 03

  Yeah, if you do a water cutoff, that's like pretty regimented, it's probably the best overall strategy.

• 1:05:21Joe Rogan?

  As long as you make sure you hydrate in the morning, so I'm pretty diligent about that. First step in the morning, amino acids with water. Like, I do that ninety-nine percent of the time, like first thing, before coffee, before anything.

• 1:05:36Speaker 03

  And do you put electrolytes in it?

• 1:05:37Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah. I take uh, Gary Brekka's stuff, it's called Perfect Aminos, it's aminos and electrolytes, I get that in first thing in the morning. Just, you know. Get it out of the way.

• 1:05:48Speaker 03

  Uh huh.

• 1:05:49Joe Rogan?

  And I didn't used to for the longest time. I would just hit the gym right away and just drink water when I was in there.

• 1:05:54Speaker 03

  Damn.

• 1:05:54Joe Rogan?

  I feel a difference.

• 1:05:55Speaker 03

  What about, I thought step one was cold plunge.

• 1:05:58Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it depends. Um, I haven't cold plunged in the last three weeks because I got some stem cells. Um, and uh, I'm still sauna-ing, so it seems like there's a lot of controversy about this in terms of like what you should and shouldn't do post-stem cell injection. I have a, a very minor Achilles tear. Uh, when I was elk hunting in September, I, I twisted my ankle pretty bad. And I didn't think anything of it. Uh, I stopped limping after like fifteen or twenty minutes and I was like, I think I'm okay. And uh, I have, uh, and I was wearing, uh, at the time, I was wearing very light boots.

• 1:06:39Joe Rogan?

  They're like, you know, um, just a, a real light boot that you wouldn't do for heavy mountain trekking. And we did some steep elevation and then the real problem is going down. And you're, you know, when you're going down like several thousand feet over the course of like an hour.

• 1:06:57Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:06:58Joe Rogan?

  It's fucking brutal. And I, I twisted one of my ankles. And then the next day I put on a, a much higher, more rigid boot with great ankle support and I was fine for the rest of the trip. But then.

• 1:07:10Speaker 03

  That's the fucking worst when you just gotta like stare at the ground the entire time you're walking. Cause the littlest off step, you just roll your ankle or.

• 1:07:17Joe Rogan?

  Not only that, you go down.

• 1:07:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:07:19Joe Rogan?

  You know, you could die. Um, it's, we, we were in pretty steep country in, in Utah, but um, interestingly, I didn't notice anything was wrong until I'd get into a push-up position. Which is weird. So when, you know, I do a hundred push-ups every morning, a hundred push-ups, a hundred bodyweight squats. That's my warm-up before I do anything. And so when I got into like a high push-up position with like my butt up in the air, it, it's a lot of stretching on the Achilles and my left Achilles was fucking killing me, like sharp pain. I was like, fuck, this hurts. And I thought maybe I, maybe it needs to stretch out. So I did some like jump rope. Doesn't bother me. Jump rope doesn't bother me. Nothing else bothers me. But that position bothered me and it was bothering me for like five weeks.

• 1:08:03Joe Rogan?

  And I was like, all right, I gotta get this looked at because it seems like it's, it might be getting worse every time I do that. And so, uh, I got a, I got it scanned and there's a minor tear in my Achilles and. Achilles tears are a fucking nightmare. You know, if you you blow out your Achilles, that's a nightmare. It's a long rehabilitation process.

• 1:08:22Speaker 03

  Blood flow to the area is pretty.

• 1:08:24Joe Rogan?

  Especially at fifty-eight.

• 1:08:25Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:08:25Joe Rogan?

  It's a fucking, it's, that's a long recovery. It's like, I'm looking at a year before I could do everything again. Then you you lose all your gains, all your cardio, everything. You can't move right. You're fucked. So, uh, I got a stem cell shot in there and there's a lot of debate about when you should be able to cold plunge after stem cells. And a lot of, uh, the literature seems to say three months. It doesn't seem to think sauna, there's, there's more indication that sauna is probably therapeutically beneficial for, uh, for the stem cells because

• 1:09:05Joe Rogan?

  the idea is that these stem cells are still in the area trying to heal the tissue. When you cold plunge, you kill them. But when you're doing sauna, you're increasing blood flow and it might help them. So what they said is like, I wouldn't do anything for a couple of weeks. Nothing. And then after that, just sauna for a while.

• 1:09:26Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:09:26Joe Rogan?

  So I haven't done a cold plunge in over a month.

• 1:09:29Speaker 03

  Seems excessive, not that.

• 1:09:31Joe Rogan?

  I'm scared to go back in.

• 1:09:32Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:09:32Joe Rogan?

  Cause I was so used to it.

• 1:09:34Speaker 03

  Oh, you gotta get over the hurdle again.

• 1:09:35Joe Rogan?

  I'm so scared. Every time I do it, I almost don't do it. Every fucking time I do it, I almost don't do it.

• 1:09:42Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:09:42Joe Rogan?

  Um, so like for the past month, it's just been get up and just work out and then sauna afterwards.

• 1:09:47Speaker 03

  What's the, uh, rehab stack? Is it any different than what you were already doing or is it kinda like?

• 1:09:52Joe Rogan?

  BBC one-five-seven, TB five-hundred, that's it. It's definitely improved.

• 1:09:57Speaker 03

  BBC local in the?

• 1:09:58Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 1:09:58Speaker 03

  Achilles?

• 1:09:59Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, right there.

• 1:10:00Speaker 03

  Or you just pinch the subQ area and kinda like?

• 1:10:03Joe Rogan?

  I shove it right in there. Uh, I think local is the way to go. I've done it subcutaneously, like in the side and love handles. Doesn't have the same effect.

• 1:10:12Speaker 03

  Yeah, if you can get it to the area, it's like, why not?

• 1:10:15Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I think I think BBC 157 locally is the way to go. But it's definitely getting a lot better. It doesn't doesn't hurt at all anymore. I'm just I'm just making sure it fully heals up.

• 1:10:27Speaker 03

  Yeah, interesting note on kind of like the hormone support stuff. This past month, the FDA actually removed the most of the black box warnings off of women's HRT.

• 1:10:39Joe Rogan?

  Yes, yes.

• 1:10:41Speaker 03

  Pretty amazing.

• 1:10:42Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, really amazing because so many women were lied to for so long. They were told that there's all these negative effects of supplementing your hormones. But my God, how many fucking people just said lost quality of life for fucking nothing for no science at all? It's just complete horseshit. But there's so much bad fucking science out there, man. Like, it's it's a real problem. It's hot as shit in here. There's so much bad science out there, man.

• 1:11:07Speaker 03

  It almost gets to a point where you almost have to look at things through the lens of, does this sound like nonsense?

• 1:11:13Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, well, and then where do you go? Like, who do you trust? You know, unless you you're well versed in who the respectable online people are.

• 1:11:24Speaker 03

  Yeah, like you might see, you know, however, many studies that say fill in the blank exotic compound is like totally ineffective. And it's like, who was it tested on for how long? What was the dosage? You know, and like, it might be a completely useless interpretation for your specific nuanced scenario. And if you hear hordes of anecdotes from everyone in your circle you trust, who actually knows what they're talking about, has been in the trenches, knows their body well. You can't you can't really ignore that.

• 1:11:52Joe Rogan?

  What was the narrative about female hormones? And why did they? Why did they do that for so long? Do you know?

• 1:11:58Speaker 03

  So I think it was in the 90s, the Women's Health Initiative were assessing the viability and safety profile of hormone replacement therapy. And I might butcher this a little bit, but in general, the, you know, overall context is relatively accurate, I'm sure. And it was like of a thousand women or something that they tested HRT. I want to say HRT, I put in air quotes because like.

• 1:12:21Joe Rogan?

  Estrogen.

• 1:12:22Speaker 03

  Not even like human bio-identical estrogen. It was like equine horse piss derived estrogens. Horse piss? Yeah. For real? Yeah, so it was like literally the most synthetic, you know, animal derived shitty estrogen that is not bio-identical at all. And also a synthetic progestin that is not bio-identical to progesterone. It's just like a progestin analog essentially that fulfills activity at the receptor, but is otherwise like, you know, the equivalent of putting you on like a microdose of nandrolone or a microdose of, you know, fill in the blank, uh, progestin derived compound, uh, or 19 nor derived compound that facilitates progestogenic activity, but just is not progesterone.

• 1:13:07Speaker 03

  So it's like to try and say, you know, this horse piss derived estrogen formula and the synthetic progestin we apply to these women is the equivalent of you having been on what you would otherwise produce as a young, healthy, vibrant woman from a bio-identical estradiol and progesterone perspective, simply not accurate. But that's like essentially the comparison that they made and, you know, presented it as such. And the result was a relative risk increase of breast cancer incidence, I believe, to the tune of like one of a thousand women. And the absolute number was like three of a thousand, the placebo arm had, uh, breast cancer incidence. And then I think four out of a thousand had breast cancer.

• 1:13:51Speaker 03

  So then the media ran with a 26% increase in risk. Oh, so everybody got panicky. Yeah. And like, I might be misinterpreting one or two variables, but like high level, that's essentially what it was. And it caused mass hysteria and panic and basically dictated the facilitation of black box warnings being put on, uh, hormone therapies. So the most aggressive FDA warning that shows. Basically, any clinician that's looking at it, or anybody who's gonna like, take the risk of using it, this is the most dangerous drug you could use with the highest risk of like lethal side effects potential.

• 1:14:26Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 1:14:27Speaker 03

  And then on top of that, it just like wasn't representative of what is actual replacement therapy with what is the hormone you would be producing naturally. So for years, you know, we went thinking, oh, it's gonna cause clotting issues, it's gonna cause cancer, it's gonna do this, it's gonna do that. And only in the most nuanced edge case scenarios is it justified because, you know, that person just absolutely has a quality of life deterioration that is so significant that it's worth it to take the risk to use hormone replacement therapy. And it's like now, similar to some of the like, common sense interpretation of things, like this doesn't make sense, like, look at all this literature showing the cardio protective effects, showing the neuro protective effects, showing the bone support and integrity, like what you lose if you don't take these hormones, like you are essentially giving

• 1:15:12Speaker 03

  yourself a worse quality of life inevitably, and deteriorating your health unquestionably. Like with men, there is some semblance of residual activity you can maintain, and some men maintain vibrant, you know, reasonable testosterone production until old age, but with women, it's kind of like.

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• 1:17:09Speaker 03

  Like, right when the lights shut off.

• 1:17:11Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, drops off a cliff.

• 1:17:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:17:13Joe Rogan?

  It's interesting how the initial narratives get stuck in the public zeitgeist forever. Like, the initial narrative for testosterone replacement was you can get testicular cancer, prostate cancer, and it was just so many people like, "I don't want to mess around with testosterone replacement because I could get cancer." And then Brigham Buehler explained that study.

• 1:17:35Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:17:36Joe Rogan?

  And explained the real results of that study. And it's like, it didn't show that anybody got prostate cancer from it. It's just not true.

• 1:17:42Speaker 03

  Yeah, and it's like, even the mechanism by which they argue it would cause it doesn't even make mechanistic sense, because it's like, the only way you're going to increase the prostate growth is via bringing, and it's like, of course, when you use hormones that are androgens, like, you're going to grow tissues that they're exposed to, but it doesn't mean it's a bad thing necessarily. And if you're a hypogonadal male who has low T, and it goes up to just the threshold of barely acceptable, that's where the growth essentially stops. And if you go beyond that into, like, medium-normal, high-normal, even superphysiologic territory, your prostate doesn't linearly grow in exposure. Otherwise, bodybuilders would have massive prostates, like, busting out of their bodies.

• 1:18:24Joe Rogan?

  Giant dicks.

• 1:18:26Speaker 03

  We wish. Didn't happen.

• 1:18:27Joe Rogan?

  Well, how come it grows in large clitorises in women?

• 1:18:31Speaker 03

  Because the physiology is...

• 1:18:35Speaker 03

  Essentially interchangeable in that you could have gone in any direction dependent on your exposure to these hormones.

• 1:18:41Joe Rogan?

  Oh, right.

• 1:18:42Speaker 03

  It's not. Yeah, so if, if a man exposes himself to significant amounts of estrogen and has no, has hormone deprivation, there are some irreversible anatomical changes because they've already like matured that will not go away. But like with women, it's like the inverse and you could otherwise get closer to that like extreme scenario where your, once your voice box gets to a certain like anatomical development, you can't necessarily go back to your high pitched, you know.

• 1:19:11Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's a real problem with detransitioners. They keep that voice forever. And it's the, the real problem is it never even becomes a man voice. It just becomes weird. You know what I mean?

• 1:19:23Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:19:24Joe Rogan?

  Trans men never develop a voice like, you know, Isaac Hayes.

• 1:19:28Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's a, one of the, one of the tough things with HRT too is like as much as I think it's so amazing that it's being educated about and there's widespread attention being brought to the importance of it, there's also the cowboy docs who almost go to the hyper extreme of optimization and are putting women on aggressive dosages of testosterone saying, you've been lied to, you know, this is actually what you need to feel good. And for a woman who's been, you know, asexual for years and feels, you know, has no energy and they are told this guy is, you know, the cutting edge doc who everyone sees, they will probably trust his guidance. And as early as before I started Merrick Health, which is my company, my mom was getting hormone

• 1:20:13Speaker 03

  therapy guidance from a doc who was relatively well respected and the dose he put her on of testosterone was so aggressive that her voice was changing within weeks.

• 1:20:22Joe Rogan?

  Whoa.

• 1:20:23Speaker 03

  And I had to like cut the cord on it. I was like, what the hell is this? And her testosterone levels were like in the like 300 plus.

• 1:20:30Joe Rogan?

  Whoa.

• 1:20:31Speaker 03

  Yeah, so like you're essentially low, low normal, healthy male territory, not like actually, but like on a clinical reference range and absolutely potential for masculinization.

• 1:20:41Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and also horny as fuck.

• 1:20:44Speaker 03

  Potentially.

• 1:20:45Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:46Speaker 03

  But it's like you didn't need to go there probably to get to horny as fuck.

• 1:20:48Joe Rogan?

  My wife has a friend who got on it and she's a British lady and she had a very funny friend. She goes, his stuff makes me feel like a bloke.

• 1:20:57Joe Rogan?

  She goes, "I'm horny like a bloke."

• 1:20:58Speaker 03

  Yeah. And it, testosterone can be helpful in women for sure. And it's an overlooked hormone that is absolutely important in women, just the same as it is in men. It's just like, you gotta kinda know what you're getting yourself into too. When it comes to like, what is reasonable for a doctor to tell you you need? And at what like concentrations you should expect, you know, blood level targets to be? Cause if you just go in blind, you might end up with the most exotic, you know, like Beverly Hills doc who thinks you should be on like the craziest cocktail ever. Cause he knows you're gonna feel it.

• 1:21:35Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:21:35Speaker 03

  And respond really, really well immediately, but then also might just like fuck you up permanently.

• 1:21:42Joe Rogan?

  Well, this is also the problem with transitioners. When, when you're becoming a trans man, right? The initial impact is you, alleviation of anxiety and euphoria. You start feeling great because that's what testosterone does for you. It doesn't mean you're supposed to have that. Your, your body's going, "What the fuck is this?" And now you're, you know, essentially you're, you're changing the whole cocktail of your body and you're, you know.

• 1:22:10Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:22:11Joe Rogan?

  And you're gonna give permanent changes that if you make a decision when you're 14, 15 years old, they put you in this stuff. Those detransitioners are some of the saddest stories, man. Because they've become sterile, they'll never have children and you know, and they're, lose their tits cause they go to a doctor that thinks you should have your mammary glands chopped off when you're 15. It's fucking, we're in the weirdest of times with all this stuff. Because it's like, what gets accepted and not accepted? And what, you know, what, again, like we were talking about the zeitgeist when a, when a thought gets out there and then it's very difficult to move away from that. And it's like, oh, you're affirming your true self. Like, really? With, with synthetic hormones that didn't exist in your body before? That's, that's your true self?

• 1:22:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:22:55Joe Rogan?

  Are you fucking sure? It sounds like this might be a social contagion.

• 1:22:59Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:22:59Joe Rogan?

  Like sweeping through the land and. One of the things that's really interesting is the, um, the drop off of kids identifying as trans. Is it coincides directly with Elon buying Twitter.

• 1:23:12Speaker 03

  Oh wow.

• 1:23:12Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, like immediately when you could, because he used to not be able to talk about it. He used to like literally, if you said, if you dead name someone from Twitter, meaning like if you changed your name to Dominique. And I called you Derek, I could get banned from Twitter for life, forever.

• 1:23:29Speaker 03

  That's crazy.

• 1:23:30Joe Rogan?

  Just by using your old name, like if I called Bruce Caitlyn Jenner Bruce, I would get banned from Twitter for life.

• 1:23:36Speaker 03

  Damn.

• 1:23:37Joe Rogan?

  Cause nuts, like, but it's like this very bizarre social contagion, this weird mind virus that went through the whole country. And everybody just signed up for it, like, and no one wanted to be a bigot, so like, oh, I don't want to be a bigot.

• 1:23:51Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think as much as I think access to drugs is super, like you should have the full liberty to do whatever you want. That's where the importance of educating yourself is so critical, cause you really don't know what you're subjecting yourself to. If you have an immature brain too, you have not even had full like frontal lobe development to try and think you're going to make a sound decision. With how you're going to impact your lifelong, uh, physiology, it's like probably.

• 1:24:17Joe Rogan?

  You can't even have a tattoo, it's not even legal to get a tattoo and you get your penis removed. It's fucking crazy, it's fucking crazy. Oh, they know, some, some people know as early as three, I've had conversations with people on this podcast. I have friends that have trans kids and they knew right away, like, are you sure they didn't have a fucking insane mother and a gay child? Cause that might be what was going on.

• 1:24:38Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:24:39Joe Rogan?

  And now this gay child will never have an orgasm again, because you've convinced them that they're not a gay child, that they're a woman. And which is in fact completely homophobic.

• 1:24:46Speaker 03

  Yeah. Yeah, interesting extreme of the scenario, but maybe on the opposite is guys who are in their, in adolescence. Who are so hyper educated that they use the knowledge to biohack their development into becoming as maximally tall. And like infrastructurally sound as adults as possible.

• 1:25:06Joe Rogan?

  Right, right, right.

• 1:25:07Speaker 03

  And that's a really interesting predicament, because it's like. Any like reasonably ethical doctor will be like, there's no fucking way I'm touching that like case of any overseeing anybody's care who was doing that kind of thing.

• 1:25:19Joe Rogan?

  I was watching a podcast about this where this guy was talking about his son and he's short and his son is short and his son's friends were also short. And their parents got the kid on growth when they were and they grew like a lot bigger than the parents.

• 1:25:33Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:25:34Joe Rogan?

  Which is Alexander Karelin.

• 1:25:36Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 1:25:37Joe Rogan?

  Do you know Karelin's story?

• 1:25:38Speaker 03

  Uh.

• 1:25:39Joe Rogan?

  They call him the experiment. He's the freakiest wrestler that has ever existed.

• 1:25:43Speaker 03

  I know who it is, but I didn't know that specifically was an adolescent that he was subjected to.

• 1:25:47Joe Rogan?

  Well, this is speculation on my part. Have you seen my photo that I have out in the gym?

• 1:25:52Speaker 03

  Uh.

• 1:25:53Joe Rogan?

  The photo that I put up to remind myself of what a pussy I really am.

• 1:25:57Speaker 03

  Is that when he's like about to fucking toss that?

• 1:25:58Joe Rogan?

  He's fucking hoisting that guy. That picture, that one.

• 1:26:01Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's a famous one.

• 1:26:02Joe Rogan?

  That guy was 300 fucking pounds and moved like a cat. Like unbelievably mobile and flexible and had like an insane record.

• 1:26:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:26:12Joe Rogan?

  I think it was like 281 or 282, like fucking insane, like one of the most dominant wrestlers of all time. But there's um, they call him, in Russia, they would call him the experiment.

• 1:26:23Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:26:23Joe Rogan?

  And you see his parents, his parents like 5'5", 5'7", like small people and he's this fucking behemoth of a person. And of course, the Soviet doping program is legendary. The movie Icarus highlights that. You know, but everybody knew about that. The Eastern Bloc weightlifters, the females, they they set records that were never broken again. These women completely became men, you know, like there's, there's a lot of evidence that they were doing that to their athletes. The fact that they wouldn't do it to their most dominant wrestler in the history of the fucking sport. And the guy who was the absolute biggest freak in the history of wrestling. Like there was nobody like that guy.

• 1:27:02Speaker 03

  Yeah, we should talk about some of those Russian drugs. I heard you bring up tramtazidine with somebody the other day. But before that, have you ever heard of the Lionel Messi story?

• 1:27:12Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 1:27:13Speaker 03

  Okay, so did you know that he was destined to be a dwarf if he didn't get on huge amounts of growth hormone?

• 1:27:18Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 1:27:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, so he got supplied with pharmaceutical growth hormone by the team that was trying to get him to basically be with them.

• 1:27:27Joe Rogan?

  Well, he's a small guy as it is, right?

• 1:27:28Speaker 03

  Yeah, so he grew to what is otherwise an acceptable adult height, but he otherwise was destined to be literally a dwarf, whatever the socially acceptable term is.

• 1:27:39Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:27:41Speaker 03

  Yeah, so they either paid for his pharmaceutical growth hormone and admitted, like, got it for him, paid for it, made sure he was taking it, or he didn't become the greatest, some argue, you know, the football player of all time.

• 1:27:54Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's also you have to take into consideration, like, how much of effect did that have on his performance?

• 1:28:00Speaker 03

  I mean, it definitely-

• 1:28:01Joe Rogan?

  Things that no one else can do.

• 1:28:02Speaker 03

  Well, he definitely wouldn't have grown to the height he is and-

• 1:28:05Joe Rogan?

  It's not just the height, it's the explosive movement, his ability to change direction, like, better than anybody.

• 1:28:12Speaker 03

  The infrastructure is obviously supporting of it. I don't necessarily know, yeah, it would be impossible to, like, really quantify that. There's no, like, you know, uh, A B test of it.

• 1:28:22Joe Rogan?

  Right, right, there's no placebo-controlled trial.

• 1:28:26Speaker 03

  But you know, if he didn't do it, he would not be even playing.

• 1:28:29Joe Rogan?

  Wow, I did not know that.

• 1:28:31Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's probably one of the most overlooked but wild, uh, cases of a professional athlete who, like, needed to go, like, full board to the tits when it comes to-

• 1:28:43Joe Rogan?

  Old was he when they did that to him?

• 1:28:44Speaker 03

  A young teen, if not a child. Saying 11 years old? Yeah.

• 1:28:49Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:28:50Speaker 03

  Yeah, it was like you either take this at the dose that is going to, like, push you to, you know, maximal IGF-1 output territory and we get you to as high of maturation as possible, or you're not going to be a professional player.

• 1:29:03Joe Rogan?

  How tall is Messi now?

• 1:29:04Speaker 03

  5'7".

• 1:29:05Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:29:06Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:29:07Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy. Well, you know, I told you the old Romero story, right?

• 1:29:11Speaker 03

  Probably.

• 1:29:13Joe Rogan?

  Yoel Romero is the biggest athletic freak I've ever seen in my life. And I've seen a lot of athletic freaks.

• 1:29:18Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:29:19Joe Rogan?

  Yoel Romero, when he, I believe it was in Australia. He was fighting, and after the fight, goes to a doctor to get checked up. He had a fractured orbital, he had, you know, rough fight.

• 1:29:33Joe Rogan?

  The doctor examines him and then says to the UFC, "Where did you get this guy?"

• 1:29:37Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:29:38Joe Rogan?

  Did I tell you this?

• 1:29:38Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:29:39Joe Rogan?

  And they go, "Hey, he's great, right?" He goes, "No, no, no." His tendons in his eyes are three times the size of a normal person.

• 1:29:46Speaker 03

  Oh, right, right, right.

• 1:29:47Joe Rogan?

  They said his orbital bone is already healing.

• 1:29:49Speaker 03

  Crazy.

• 1:29:50Joe Rogan?

  Like, what did they do to him? Because he was on the Cuban Olympic program.

• 1:29:53Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:29:54Joe Rogan?

  You know, and the way he talks about it, like, the program was, like, so regimented. In fact, they had tiers of athletes. And the highest tier ate three times a day. The tier below that ate two times a day. So it motivated you, literally, to get more food.

• 1:30:11Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 1:30:11Joe Rogan?

  To compete. And you're competing with these guys that their entire life is wrestling. That is everything. And it literally can feed their family. It's a matter of whether or not their family gets food, whether it changes your social status. And he goes, "And because of that, you become a machine." That's how he's saying it. I could do a good Yoel. "You become a machine." And he's the biggest freak of all time. In fact, everybody who fights him says hitting him hurts.

• 1:30:42Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:30:43Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. What Robert Whitaker said is like hitting metal. He goes, "Dude," he's like, "You hit the guy, he doesn't feel like a normal person." He goes, "It's like you're hitting metal."

• 1:30:53Speaker 03

  He's still competing, but in, what, one?

• 1:30:56Joe Rogan?

  Dirty boxing. His dirty boxing was his latest one.

• 1:30:59Speaker 03

  Oh, my goodness.

• 1:31:00Joe Rogan?

  He's almost 50. He's jacked as fuck. Now he's a heavyweight, full six-pack, almost 50 years old, fucking gigantic. I mean, now he's got to be geared up. I mean, I would imagine, because he's in these, like, fringe leagues that, you know.

• 1:31:14Speaker 03

  You'd think.

• 1:31:14Joe Rogan?

  Their drug test is a fucking multiple choice.

• 1:31:19Joe Rogan?

  What do you want? I'm on Jesus. He had that famous speech, he was saying, "Don't forget about Jesus." He goes, "Don't forget Jesus." And everybody thought he was saying, "No gay Jesus is not gay."

• 1:31:33Speaker 03

  Oh my god.

• 1:31:34Joe Rogan?

  And so they thought he was homophobic. And he's like, "No, no, no, no, no. No forget Jesus." But he was saying, "Don't forget Jesus." Like, Jesus is important. And everyone was like, "Oh my god, Yoel Romero used his platform to say homophobic things after a fight." Like, no, he can't speak English very well.

• 1:31:52Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:31:52Joe Rogan?

  You know? And he's religious.

• 1:31:54Speaker 03

  I feel, yeah. That guy, he, uh, I always felt like if he just kinda like threw himself into the fire more, he could just like crush it.

• 1:32:02Joe Rogan?

  The problem is cardio. When you're carrying around that much weight.

• 1:32:06Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 1:32:06Joe Rogan?

  You know, first of all, wrestling, his wrestling was above and beyond anybody else.

• 1:32:11Speaker 03

  But he was just like slug when he didn't need to.

• 1:32:13Joe Rogan?

  Well, they get in love with knocking people out, first of all. And that guy's explosive capacity was... He knocked out Chris Weidman, one of the fucking scariest flying knees I've ever seen in my life. It was a great fight, up until the moment they put Chris Weidman into the shadow realm. But he hit him with his flying knee, just explo... He lulls you. So what Israel...

• 1:32:32Speaker 03

  Yeah, he looks like he's tired or whatever.

• 1:32:34Joe Rogan?

  Then he jumps on you. And his ability to close the distance is so... It's like, you think about wrestlers, like, um, did you see Bo Nichols' last knockout?

• 1:32:43Speaker 03

  Um...

• 1:32:44Joe Rogan?

  He knocked out Adolfo Viera with a head kick.

• 1:32:46Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:32:47Joe Rogan?

  It was spectacular. But what Bo Nick... Bo Nichols is an elite wrestler. Uh, like a top shelf, blue chip wrestler. And one of the things that wrestlers have is this ability to close distance. Because they're, you know, they're on the outside and they can just shoot doubles. So that explosion naturally lends itself to closing the distance and striking. Because, you know, it's the same kind of thing. If you develop good striking, and Adolfo Viera, who's like fucking super jacked, but he's a Gi Jiu-Jitsu guy. Gi Jiu-Jitsu is all about strength and control. Technique as well, but it's a, a tight game. It's not a game of like jumping, moving across distance quick. It's a game of their...

• 1:33:28Joe Rogan?

  gripping each other and then you know it's a lot about strength and it's a lot about technique but it's not about closing distance. So Haddad Valverde is like a plotting like really super jack guy and Bo Nichols just light on his feet moving on the outside and just closing distance cracking him getting out and and he hits him with his fucking bomb head kick and puts him asleep. But it's that that that ability to close the distance. Nobody did that better than Yoel. Yoel was the best at that because he's just fucking unbelievable athlete. And with Izzy, he fought Israel Adesanya and Izzy said, dude, I had to stay on the outside with that guy. I could not just go after him because the counters would come so fast.

• 1:34:12Joe Rogan?

  He Yoel caught him with a big left hand early in the fight and he was like, oh, well, fuck this. He's like, we're gonna make this a boring fight. I'm just gonna win a decision on this motherfucker. Because it's just the consequences of being too close to him where he can do that. It's just you have to fight a technical fight with that guy. Stay on the outside, pick at him, move a lot, don't set, don't set your feet ever. Never be in a place where he can just like huh because he can just launch on you and blast you.

• 1:34:42Speaker 03

  Yeah, the on the flip side of that, the leaping uh in the middleweight of Chimaev ruthless to watch. That was like the most painful fight I've seen recently.

• 1:34:52Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah, the Drakis Duplessis fight. Yeah, well, that's just levels and levels above everyone else.

• 1:34:58Speaker 03

  Just like closing distance, even when you know it's about to come.

• 1:35:01Joe Rogan?

  Can't stop it. Yeah. Once he gets his hands on you, you're fucked. His his that, there's something about that, that kind of wrestle wrestling from the Chechens and the Dagestanis and maybe even him more than any of the other ones. Is it's just so aggressive and he chains things together so well. And if you're not training with guys like that, like Shab told me that he went to see Chimaev when Chimaev is in training camp for Drakis Duplessis. And he called me up, he goes, dude, listen to me. He got like Shab was a top 10 UFC heavyweight. He's been around forever, you know, was in, he was in camp with George St Pierre when George St Pierre was in his prime, Nate Marquardt when Nate Marquardt was in his prime, he was like, dude, I've never seen nothing like this.

• 1:35:44Joe Rogan?

  He goes, they were bringing in world-class wrestlers and he's fucking ragdolling them. He goes, he's a freak. He goes, he's going to fuck Drakis up. I go, really? He goes, dude, if he gets a hold of that guy, he's fucked. Turned out to be 100% accurate.

• 1:36:00Speaker 03

  Yeah, it was like the most obscene example I've seen.

• 1:36:04Joe Rogan?

  His wrestling is obscene. That's a great way to put it. His wrestling is obscene. And if you can't compete, like this one thing that I said about Drakis after that fight was like, that gap is so wide, that's like jumping across the Grand Canyon. You're not going to make it. Like, you would have to start, you'd have to get a time machine, go back to the time when you're six and start wrestling in Dagestan. Like, you've, you've gotta like have those kind of skills to compete with that guy.

• 1:36:30Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:36:31Joe Rogan?

  Only an elite wrestler who can also strike is gonna be able to fuck with that guy. Unless he gets silly and decides to strike with. This episode is brought to you by NOCO. You're miles from home, you turn the key, nothing. Dead battery. Normally, that means finding another car, someone willing to give you a jump, and dealing with old jumper cables. But what if you didn't need any of that? Keep a NOCO portable jump starter in your glove box and jump start your car, yourself. No cables, no second vehicle, no waiting for help. It also works as a power bank and has a built-in LED flashlight. NOCO, the end of jumper cables.

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• 1:37:53Joe Rogan?

  You'll also receive free overnight shipping. That's promo code ROGEN. Head over to BlueChew.com for details and important safety information. Check it out. This ad and the products being advertised are intended for a United States audience. I'm gonna KO him. Other than that, I just can't see anybody fucking with that guy.

• 1:38:12Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, it's, I guess, needs somebody stylistically to match up to really.

• 1:38:18Joe Rogan?

  Bo Nickel.

• 1:38:19Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:38:19Joe Rogan?

  But Bo has to grow as a fighter. You know, he has to, he has to grow as a fighter, and he's doing that. I mean, he's a. Unbelievably dedicated and disciplined guy and if anybody can do it, he can do it. Because he's got that elite wrestling that like if they had a wrestling match, it would be fantastic. But Shumayev is a much better striker right now, at least has been. Up until this last fight with Vieira, which was a huge knockout, but Vieira was kind of a standing target for for Bo.

• 1:38:48Speaker 03

  What did you think of the Ousmane Plaza test result? Kind of interesting.

• 1:38:53Joe Rogan?

  Oh, the bigger Ousmane.

• 1:38:55Speaker 03

  Yeah, the older brother.

• 1:38:56Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, duh. That's a duh. He's fucking huge.

• 1:38:59Speaker 03

  I've, uh, yeah, I mean.

• 1:39:02Joe Rogan?

  Unfortunate, you know, because the heavyweight division is so devoid of talent.

• 1:39:06Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:39:07Joe Rogan?

  Gable Stevenson is the fucking guy.

• 1:39:09Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:39:10Joe Rogan?

  That's the guy. That's the guy. He's not even in the UFC yet. I mean, that Olympic gold medalist, fucking freak athlete, 250 pounds, moves like a cat. That's the guy that he's every I I sent a text message to Dana White. I sent him a video of Gable's last fight. I said, everyone's fucked. Everyone's fucked when this guy comes out. He KO'd this guy with a left hand. He KO'd this guy with a left hand and then took him down as he was knocked out. Watch this knockout because it's so fucking crazy. The speed that this guy has. First of all, really good striking already and he's only been striking for like a fucking year. But watch when he KOs this guy, he hits him with a punch, boom, and then takes him down.

• 1:39:52Speaker 03

  Jesus.

• 1:39:53Joe Rogan?

  Dude, everyone's fucked. And then just, well, I mean, that's just nuts, man. That kind of speed is nuts for a heavyweight.

• 1:39:59Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:40:00Joe Rogan?

  Look at that left hook. Boom, takes him down, smash. And then.

• 1:40:04Speaker 03

  That's like a video game combo.

• 1:40:05Joe Rogan?

  Exactly. And he can do backflips and shit. When he fought in dirty boxing, he knocks the guy out and then he leaps over the top rope and lands on on the apron. Just leaps over the top rope with like effortless.

• 1:40:18Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:40:19Joe Rogan?

  Freak. He's a real freak. And again, just like watch this KO when he KOs this guy. But first of all, this guy has no business being in there with him. But this is just boxing. This is what they call dirty boxing. Boom. So you could ground and pound guys.

• 1:40:35Speaker 03

  So is this like the modern day DC? Sort of.

• 1:40:38Joe Rogan?

  Oh, he's he's maybe even better and bigger, a lot bigger. See how he jumped over that rope?

• 1:40:42Speaker 03

  The super athletic, but like doesn't kind of unassuming.

• 1:40:46Joe Rogan?

  Exactly. Well, I mean, not really unassuming. He's a fucking house man. He just doesn't, he has higher body fat.

• 1:40:52Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:40:53Joe Rogan?

  But look how he jumped over that rope.

• 1:40:54Speaker 03

  Oh yeah, when you see that, of course.

• 1:40:55Joe Rogan?

  Watch it, show that again.

• 1:40:57Speaker 03

  Yeah, that was insane.

• 1:40:58Joe Rogan?

  Well, look at, look how the effortless, look at, just effortless.

• 1:41:01Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:41:02Joe Rogan?

  Leaps over that fucking, that's like five feet. He just jumps over it like it's nothing.

• 1:41:06Speaker 03

  And after fighting.

• 1:41:07Joe Rogan?

  After fighting and, but literally with no effort. Just hops over it like it didn't exist, lands perfectly.

• 1:41:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:41:14Joe Rogan?

  He's a freak, man. And, and, and he's training with Jon Jones. And, you know, he's training with like some of the best fighters and he's training and he's trying to fight every month. He's trying to get as much experience as he can before he gets into the UFC. And he's coming and everybody's in trouble.

• 1:41:29Speaker 03

  How old is he?

• 1:41:29Joe Rogan?

  Twenty-five.

• 1:41:30Speaker 03

  Oh geez.

• 1:41:31Joe Rogan?

  They're all fucked.

• 1:41:32Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:41:32Joe Rogan?

  Everyone's fucked. I mean, everyone is fucked. Because there's no, other than Jon, there's no one that can wrestle with that guy in that sport. And the thing about a guy who could wrestle like that is if he can strike like that. The problem with wrestling is you're always worried about the takedown. So that opens you up to strikes.

• 1:41:51Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:41:51Joe Rogan?

  Because you're always like, every feint, you're thinking he's gonna shoot for your legs, but then boom, he catches you with a left hook. And the speed that guy has, it's like a lethal combination of athleticism, speed, power, size, and an insane wrestling pedigree. I mean, Olympic gold medalist, as good as he gets with wrestling.

• 1:42:10Speaker 03

  I think the last time I heard you talk about a guy like this, at least when I was on, was, uh, Pereira before he came in.

• 1:42:15Joe Rogan?

  Similar.

• 1:42:16Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:42:16Joe Rogan?

  Similar kind of thing, where he's a specialist, you know, but.

• 1:42:20Speaker 03

  You're like, watch out for this fucking guy.

• 1:42:22Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:42:22Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:42:22Joe Rogan?

  Oh yeah, I remember DC was like, come on, man. I'm like, dude, I'm telling you, this guy is different.

• 1:42:28Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:42:29Joe Rogan?

  Cause I had been a huge fan of Pereira when he was fighting in Glory. And, you know, you'd watch him hit guys and they'd go flying across the ring.

• 1:42:35Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:42:36Joe Rogan?

  Like, what the fuck is that guy made out of? And when you like, when I interview him, like I put my hand on him, it's like this table, dude. He's like made out of oak, like he's fucking dense.

• 1:42:46Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:42:46Joe Rogan?

  And there's something about the way he throws punches. Have you ever seen him punch that, that machine? You know, that machine that like generates?

• 1:42:54Speaker 03

  It's like effortless, but it's like super high power.

• 1:42:57Joe Rogan?

  He hit it with his. His right hand because his left hand had been bothering him and he got 190. Hundred and the the previous like Francis Ngannou got a 129. He got a 190 with a right hand. It's fucking insane dude. I got like 150 with a kick. This guy got 190 with a punch. 190 is insane and it's his right hand. I bet his left hand is probably 200. It's fuck. See if you can find that video.

• 1:43:25Joe Rogan?

  It got deleted? The way it's being advertised when you Google it is not. Broke the internet. People like hide it. Yeah. Somewhere else. Bro, he hit so hard that Mark Goddard, after he fought Khalil Roundtree, after he just beat Khalil Roundtree across the octagon, beat Mark Goddard, when they were announcing the KO and you know, raising his hand. Mark comes up to me at the end of the fight, he goes, "The sound, the sound it makes when that guy hits people is ungodly." He goes, "I've been doing this for 20 years, mate." He goes, "It's ungod..." Watch this.

• 1:43:59Joe Rogan?

  170.

• 1:44:02Speaker 04

  Oh my gosh, bro.

• 1:44:07Joe Rogan?

  Bro. Bro, bro, bro.

• 1:44:12Joe Rogan?

  Play that again. Play that. Just look at the force that this guy generates. There's something about, there's, it's the leverage because of his technique. That's us watching it. 170.

• 1:44:27Speaker 04

  Oh my gosh.

• 1:44:29Joe Rogan?

  But that's nuts. That's nuts. His gut, his power is a weird thing, man. You're born with it. Like nothing else. Like there's a lot of skills that you can acquire, but there's a threshold to how hard you're going to be able to hit. And I think it's based on body mechanics, it's based on the frame, it's based on the size of your hand. He has massive hands. It's based on, there's just a lot of factors, explosive, fast twitch muscle fiber. Some people don't have a lot of it. Some people are more of an endurance fighter and they don't hit as hard. But they could just get you with combinations and they put you away eventually. But Pereira is different, man. It's like in, like, he's like David, David Goggins always likes to say, "He's uncommon amongst uncommon men."

• 1:45:17Speaker 03

  It's interesting that his chin seems to be holding up really well.

• 1:45:20Joe Rogan?

  At light heavyweight, yeah.

• 1:45:22Speaker 03

  And he has been knocked out before, he's getting older and like, he seems fine.

• 1:45:26Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's because he was not cutting weight anymore. There's nothing that fucks your chin up more than dehydration. When he was losing weight, he was getting down to 185 pounds and he was weighing in the day of the fight at 226. 226, weighing in at 185, you cut weight and then rehydrating up to 226 a day later. Like, you don't rehydrate your brain, man. And so you can't take shots. You can't take shots as well. And it's a common thread amongst fighters. Like, Jack Hermanson, he got knocked out by Gregory Rodriguez at 185, and Gregory Rodriguez is another one. He's a freak. Just a giant 185. It doesn't even make sense. You're standing next to him. I weigh 200 pounds and I stand next to him, and he'll short me, and I'm like, how?

• 1:46:11Joe Rogan?

  How the fuck are you 15 pounds lighter than me? That's not even, this is science. Like, it doesn't even make sense. And so Jack went down to 170 and just got KO'd the other day. Bad. Just bad. Because I think that you're way more vulnerable. Like Frankie Edgar's a perfect example, because Frankie, when he was in his prime at 155, didn't cut any weight. He was one of the rare guys that was a 155-pound champion that was actually 155 pounds when he fought. And just amazing durability because of that. Because he didn't dehydrate himself. So he was like optimal.

• 1:46:50Joe Rogan?

  And there's like this point of diminishing returns where you're physically bigger, you're stronger, but you can't take shots. And you also fatigue quicker because your body essentially almost died 24 hours ago. I mean, these guys get to death's door to make weight. Their whole face is sucked in, their eyeballs are pulled back in their head. It's kind of crazy.

• 1:47:12Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think more attention is going to come to how to actually ensure your brain stays safe in the sport for longevity purposes as people kind of realize how impactful like the weight cutting especially can be, but also like if you end up getting knocked out, you might not come back the same and some of the strategies that should be employed after those fights as well to actually restore as quickly as possible and avoid permanent degradation.

• 1:47:37Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's like there's, there's two schools of thought. There's one school of thought that I'm in, which we need to expand the weight classes. So we have more weight classes and we need to somehow or another institute some sort of hydration policy where you cannot dehydrate yourself and weigh in and pretend that you weigh 170 when really you weigh 210 because there's, there's a lot of guys doing that. And the other school of thought is they should be able to hydrate with IVs. Because they used to be able to hydrate with IVs. The blood-brain barrier like and the hydration of the brain, it takes much longer to rehydrate your brain than it does to rehydrate your muscle tissue.

• 1:48:16Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:48:16Joe Rogan?

  And so these guys are going in there, their muscles are full, but their brain is dehydrated and they're vulnerable to getting knocked out. And I think that's what happened with Pereira, particularly with the Izzy fight. But Izzy caught him with a picture perfect right hand, just right on the chin and then followed it up with a left hook. But it was just, he didn't have the durability at 185 that he has at 205. At 205, he's been dropped, like Khalil dropped him, guys have dropped him and you know, Ankaliya rocked him, but he can take it. He could take it at 205.

• 1:48:47Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:48:48Joe Rogan?

  And now he's talking about going all the way up to heavyweight, which is kind of crazy.

• 1:48:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, like all power to him if he does, fuck, who doesn't want to see it?

• 1:48:56Joe Rogan?

  Oh yeah. I mean, I would love to see him fight John Jones at the White House.

• 1:49:00Speaker 03

  And what's your ideal White House card look like?

• 1:49:02Joe Rogan?

  John Jones versus Pereira, for sure. Conor McGregor versus Michael Chandler. That would be awesome. You know, you want to have some fun. Like that's, that's a fun fight. You know, and then you'd probably want like Islam Makachev versus Ilya Toporia. That would be insane, you know, maybe even at 155. I don't know if Islam even wants to make 155 anymore, but Ilya said he would fight him at 170, which is crazy because Ilya is smaller than me. Like, that's, that's another guy.

• 1:49:32Speaker 03

  What's his walk around weight?

• 1:49:33Joe Rogan?

  I don't know. Uh, I don't know, but that's another guy that has the touch of death. There's guys that, that just have freaky power.

• 1:49:39Speaker 03

  Hopefully he doesn't let his personal shit derail whatever is happening.

• 1:49:43Joe Rogan?

  I know.

• 1:49:44Speaker 03

  Like, you're in your late twenties and it's like, not the time, bro.

• 1:49:47Joe Rogan?

  I know. It's crazy. I don't know what happened. I don't know what happened with the wife.

• 1:49:52Speaker 03

  I don't know if it's a coincidence, but I mean, you can't, I'm sure the internet has their speculation, but the timing is very odd with like, one of these interviews he did where somebody was, almost seemed to plant in his head that like, if you meet a, a wife in Miami, that she's probably like not a, you know, good, uh, you know.

• 1:50:15Joe Rogan?

  Is that where he met her?

• 1:50:16Speaker 03

  I think so, yeah. And it was like.

• 1:50:17Joe Rogan?

  But he lives in Spain.

• 1:50:18Speaker 03

  And somebody, I forget who it was, but somebody like jokingly said, "Oh, you met, like, it looks like you can meet quality women in Miami. Crazy. Like you would have never thought." And then he was like visibly shook. He was like, "What do you mean by that?"

• 1:50:31Joe Rogan?

  Oh, no.

• 1:50:31Speaker 03

  And the guy was like, "Did I just offend you and you're gonna fuck me up?" Or like, "What is happening right now?" And he was just seemed to like, almost internalize that, "Is there a reason I shouldn't trust Miami women and I haven't considered it?" And then it's just like, you can't help but think with the timing, the fucking wheels are turning.

• 1:50:48Joe Rogan?

  Oh, God. I didn't know that he met her in Miami. I don't know if that's even true. Because he lives in Spain.

• 1:50:53Speaker 03

  Or if it even is like, relevant at all, but it's just weird timing.

• 1:50:56Joe Rogan?

  I would imagine it's relevant. Meeting a woman in Miami.

• 1:50:58Speaker 03

  Like, I mean, the, the factors certainly support that it's like, a more likely chance that she's not the person she represented herself as potentially, but.

• 1:51:06Joe Rogan?

  Well, not just that, it's the culture of Miami. I always say that if you want to starve to death, open up a bookstore in Miami. It's like, people are just partiers. It's like, you should have a passport to go to Miami. It's barely America.

• 1:51:19Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:51:19Joe Rogan?

  It's fun. It's a great city. A lot of fun. But it doesn't really lend itself to like, the kind of like sturdy, stay-at-home mom support for a world champion because. The discipline involved in being not just a world champion, but a world champion on Ilya's level, you know, like two division dominator, goes up, knocks out Charles Olivera like it's nothing, which is cra- not only that, had a celebration the night before the fight.

• 1:51:47Speaker 03

  Oh yeah.

• 1:51:48Joe Rogan?

  Celebrated his victory.

• 1:51:49Speaker 03

  That was almost like Gordon Ryan shit, like times two.

• 1:51:51Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:51:52Speaker 03

  Like, yeah, yeah.

• 1:51:53Joe Rogan?

  And even apologized to Charles, "I'm sorry it has to be you, you know, I love you, you're a great guy, sorry it has to be you." Like, super respectful of Charles, he's a legend, you know, and then flat lines have been the first round, like he said he was going to, he's like, "Trust me, I'm going to knock him out in the first round." One punch, boom, touch of death. It's like, he's, there's guys that have, and for him, it's like, not a big guy, right? Like, not extremely muscular, like, there's nothing, he's not massive, but it's mechanics, his mechanics are fucking perfect, his timing is fucking perfect, belief in himself, technique, everything, it's like all the above, but it's like, there's guys that you can't let hit

• 1:52:35Joe Rogan?

  you, and Ilya is one of them, and I think that probably carries all the way up to 170. I just don't, I mean, the difference between, so 170, look at him, and then look at some of the big 170s, like Jack Del Amatena, he's a fucking big guy, like, there's like, big, like, Michael Venom Page, he's fucking huge, that would be a nightmare matchup for, for Ilya, if he really did decide to go to 170, a guy like Venom, because you can't hit that guy. Like, if you can't hit that guy and he can hit you, and he's a point fighting champion, so that is the absolute best style of the blitz, of like, being able to close distance quickly, nobody does that like that, MVP, he's the best at it, the best at it maybe of all time.

• 1:53:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, I wonder if it'd be kinda like when Canelo tried to go up, and then it was kinda like-

• 1:53:22Joe Rogan?

  And he fought Bival?

• 1:53:23Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:53:24Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:53:24Speaker 03

  I could see that sort of being the outcome, where it's not as-

• 1:53:28Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, could be, but Canelo, it's like later in his career, you know, but it's like- There's, it'll be a giant problem.

• 1:53:35Speaker 03

  But also you have like the disadvantage of it's actually MMA versus just boxing. But like, yeah, the guy is one of the most exciting guys to watch, has, is a great representative too. When he was on your show dude.

• 1:53:47Joe Rogan?

  Oh, he's amazing.

• 1:53:47Speaker 03

  Oh my god dude, it's like, could you have said more right things?

• 1:53:51Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:53:52Speaker 03

  Isn't it better to just like not talk about any of it publicly and just like keep your relationship shit like private?

• 1:53:58Joe Rogan?

  I think most of your life you should keep private. I think social media in general, and that not just for famous people, just in general, is way worse for people than it is good. Especially Instagram.

• 1:54:09Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:54:10Joe Rogan?

  Um, I think many a person has ruined their life on Twitter. Many a person has said things on Twitter that's tanked their career, ruined their life, you know, it's just...

• 1:54:20Joe Rogan?

  The motivation to get attention for your words and your images is very toxic. It's very dangerous and you're playing with explosives. It's just not smart. It's just not a good thing to engage in. I am much happier when I rarely am on social media. And so I like dip my toes in, see what everybody's mad about, and then I get the fuck out and move on with my day. And I never try to portray myself in any way other than who I actually am. I don't, I'm not interested in like some fucking, you know, some

• 1:54:55Joe Rogan?

  video montage with fucking music and inspirational quotes. If somebody else makes that, that's fine. I'm not involved. But I'm not putting anything like that up and checking the likes. Get the fuck out of here. That's bad for you. I think it's bad for you. The good and the bad, the negatives, the people hating on you is bad for you, like, oh, that's not me at all. Hey, why are you saying that? And then the good's not good for you either, because then you start believing your own bullshit and think your shit doesn't smell. It's crazy. It's bad for you. It's just, it's the opposite of mindfulness. It's the opposite of being in the moment. It's the opposite of that. Because you're like living for other people's attention that you don't even know. You don't even know these people.

• 1:55:37Joe Rogan?

  And you're allowing them to comment on like your wife and your family. You're holding her hand and you're renewing vows, you're on your knee, presenting her a ring with, in a video. What the fuck are you doing? Like, why would you do that? That's a private thing. If it's real love... I should be seeing the two of you. And if it's like, if you're really working, work hard in silence. What is this? What are you doing? Like, what is all this about? But it's just for likes. Everybody is addicted to these likes. I want to see the numbers. Only 6,000 likes? This is crazy. I bared my soul for you. I just think it's really bad for people. And also, it's like, most people don't know what fame really is. They think they do.

• 1:56:22Joe Rogan?

  And then they get it. And then they think they can manage it. And then the fucking psychology behind it. And the spinning that goes on in your mind when you're trying to go to bed and you're worried about all the mean things people are saying about you. It's like, ugh. It's just bad. It's just not good.

• 1:56:38Speaker 03

  What's the strategy now for you? You have a burner phone? Or like, how do you do just like divorce yourself from the?

• 1:56:44Joe Rogan?

  I just don't read it. I don't read anything. And I don't.

• 1:56:48Speaker 03

  You did a burner phone for a while.

• 1:56:50Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I, well.

• 1:56:51Speaker 03

  Or it's just fucking annoying to deal with?

• 1:56:53Joe Rogan?

  I do have a burner phone. Well, I don't have a burner phone. I have a phone that I give to people that are just annoying or that I don't really want to. Like, I leave it at home and never check it. So there's certain, like, business stuff. And I don't want business stuff to be entering into my life all the time. So I want to, I have like regimented times where I check things and respond to people. But I think my next phone number, which I'm changing soon, is going to be no social media at all. And then my other phone number, I'm just going to do that with it. I'm just going to do my social media posts, all the stuff that I have to do. Like, hey, I got a show coming up. Or, hey, this guy was great. It's a podcast happening. Posting ghosts is what I do. Post, then get out of there. But I'm not going to have any social media on my new phone. I just generally think it's bad for you.

• 1:57:35Joe Rogan?

  And it gets in the way of, it's an abuse of precious resources. That's what I think.

• 1:57:42Speaker 03

  So do you have like podcasts and stuff on it? Or like, how do you? Do you entertain yourself with actual social media?

• 1:57:48Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:57:49Speaker 03

  Or like?

• 1:57:49Joe Rogan?

  No, I'll entertain myself with YouTube.

• 1:57:52Speaker 03

  It's hard to not like have this shit infiltrate when you have like

• 1:57:55Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:57:55Speaker 03

  A taste of it. It's like before you know it, you're sitting on the toilet looking at social media or something.

• 1:57:59Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's a ni- another nice thing that I like to do is not look at my phone when I'm on the toilet. Just go to the toilet and just leave it there. I've been leaving my phone on do not disturb too, which is also a nice thing. I like doing that. Put it on do not disturb and check it occasionally. Every now and then, check it. And you know, you could set up do not disturb where certain people can get through, like my wife can get through, my kids can get through, best friends can get through. But it's just like, I thi- I think that for the most part, what you're, what you're doing is you're using very valuable resources on things that aren't valuable at all.

• 1:58:33Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's part of the reason I, uh, work best late at night. As much as I would love to have the perfect circadian rhythm and, you know, go to bed at the perfect time and align it with the sun going down, blah, blah, blah. It's like, the only time my phone and all this stuff is not blowing up, it's in the middle of the night and I can just focus and not have to think about stuff, you know, blasting me.

• 1:58:51Joe Rogan?

  Me too, yeah. My best writing is always late at night when everyone's asleep.

• 1:58:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:58:55Joe Rogan?

  And that's, also, it's like, there's something about late at night where the world seems a little bit more crazy. That I, I think my mind is like a little more tuned to danger and chaos and just like, it seems like more heightened because it's dark out. You know, it's dark out and everyone's asleep. I'm like, what is the world really made out of? Like, that's where I do my best thinking.

• 1:59:16Speaker 03

  It's funny because when I look out, I just see like calm, there's no traffic.

• 1:59:20Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:59:20Speaker 03

  And I'm just like, this is nice.

• 1:59:22Joe Rogan?

  That too, but I, I, night is when I worry about war. That's when I worry about-

• 1:59:27Speaker 03

  Oh my god, dude.

• 1:59:27Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's, I know, it's not, and sometimes I let it get in my head. That's when I get my most anxiety about the future of the world, it's like night. Something about that.

• 1:59:38Speaker 03

  Do you still smoke, uh, weed, a fair bit, or?

• 1:59:41Joe Rogan?

  Allegedly. Yeah, um-

• 1:59:43Speaker 03

  How's that?

• 1:59:44Joe Rogan?

  It's great for writing. Oh, that, that's not good for paranoia. Yeah, well, it makes you like hypersensitive to danger.

• 1:59:52Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:59:53Joe Rogan?

  Too, and yeah, but it's really great for creativity. For creativity, there's nothing like it. And for comedy, it's a steroid. It's like the best, like, it is the best performance enhancing drug ever created for writing comedy.

• 2:00:05Speaker 03

  Oh, really?

• 2:00:05Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, there's nothing like it, like, especially edibles. Like, you, you have thoughts that, like, you're like, okay, I don't even know if I would ever have that thought without weed. Like, that thought is, weed wrote that joke. I barely, barely had anything to do with that.

• 2:00:18Speaker 03

  What's the ideal edible dose?

• 2:00:20Joe Rogan?

  Depends on your tolerance. Talk to Joey Diaz. Oh, ten. Ten milligrams might fuck you up, though. Maybe five, maybe five is good. You know, that's like in the places where it's legal, like if you go to New York or LA, they, they, I think LA has a ten-milligram threshold. I think you can only get ten. That's the highest you can get. Ten's a lot for someone who doesn't do it.

• 2:00:41Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 2:00:41Joe Rogan?

  But, you know, Joey Diaz will pop like a two-fifty. He'll pop a five, he'll pop two, two-fifties. He's a fucking freak, though. Like, his tolerance is like nothing I've ever seen in my life.

• 2:00:52Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:00:52Joe Rogan?

  He used to dose people. He would take like a twenty-five-milligram edible, and he'd take the wrapper off and put a two-hundred-and-fifty-milligram edible in and give it to his co-host.

• 2:01:01Speaker 03

  Oh, my god, dude. It's like, I think it's funny, but like, I'm not even...

• 2:01:08Joe Rogan?

  It's only funny because it's Joey. If it was anybody that isn't love, you'd be like, what the fuck is wrong with you? But when Joey does it, you're just like, oh, my god.

• 2:01:15Speaker 03

  So you just think you're dying, like, unreasonably or something?

• 2:01:18Joe Rogan?

  You just know, and he's over there laughing. Ha, ha, ha!

• 2:01:22Speaker 03

  And you're just sitting there spiraling, knowing how you fucked you up.

• 2:01:24Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, he just always says, I want to see the devil. He goes, fuck this mic with those thing, I want to see the devil. He likes seeing the, he likes getting freaked out. He likes it. Um, but I mean, for creativity, I think it has a place.

• 2:01:37Speaker 03

  That's the comedian juice right there?

• 2:01:38Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I think, you know, not for everybody. Some people don't like it at all, you know? I know some really great comics that are stone-cold sober. And for them, it's just, they just like to sit and think. But, um, a lot of the best ones that I know, they, um, have flipped, switched over to either a flip phone. Or a phone with nothing on it, no social media at all. I think eventually you realize like that time you're spending with just scrolling mindlessly through things. It's such, it's such precious resources, your ti- you only have so much time in a day. And you're spending time just looking at nonsense. But it, but also the other side of it is, you do wanna have your finger on the pulse of society. You wanna kinda know what's going on in the world.

• 2:02:23Speaker 03

  Yeah, if you're a comedian, how do you even like talk about pop, pop culture and stuff that's trending or whatever?

• 2:02:29Joe Rogan?

  Well, interestingly enough, I get sent enough things.

• 2:02:32Speaker 03

  Oh, it's like consolidated for you?

• 2:02:34Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I get sent enough things by my friends that are fucked up that I don't have to go looking. So I go, Jesus, is that real? And then I'll maybe, you know, do a search and find out that it is real and then read about it and like go, what? But that I think is probably valuable because it's keeping you informed. It's the endless, mindless scrolling that I think is the most detrimental. And the, the one that robs you of the most time because, you know, you could be sitting down at the kitchen table and all of a sudden. You have this plan for the day, you're gonna get going, you're drinking a cup of coffee and then, you know, forty-five minutes is gone.

• 2:03:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:03:07Joe Rogan?

  Forty-five, you get a brutal fucking workout in forty-five minutes, but you didn't do anything.

• 2:03:11Speaker 03

  There's nothing more guilty feeling than having wasted like your six to eight really short mental hours. Any, any part of that on something that dumb.

• 2:03:20Joe Rogan?

  I feel so bad when I do it.

• 2:03:22Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:03:22Joe Rogan?

  When I, when I have done it in the past, I just feel.

• 2:03:24Speaker 03

  And it's like, how did I do it again? Yeah?

• 2:03:25Joe Rogan?

  Yep. How did I, how did I let it get me again?

• 2:03:27Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's like you feel like a, like an idiot or like a druggie or something. It's like.

• 2:03:32Joe Rogan?

  Well, you are. You're, you're a low level druggie, you know? It's a low drug. It's not even a good one. It's not even like, I feel great. This is amazing. Like, it doesn't even do that to you. Yeah. Sean, um, Sugar Sean O'Malley had a great quote. He said, even when I'm just regular scrolling, if it has nothing to do with me. He goes, I get a low level anxiety. And I'm like, yeah, me too. Like, it's weird. And I think that low level anxiety is like a little bit of, you know, you're wasting your time, you know?

• 2:03:59Speaker 03

  Yeah, for sure.

• 2:04:01Joe Rogan?

  When he fought Murab the second time, he got totally off social media for like months and months.

• 2:04:05Speaker 03

  Oh, probably the best strategy.

• 2:04:07Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it still didn't help. Yeah.

• 2:04:09Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, at least he put in like, did what he thought would work though.

• 2:04:14Joe Rogan?

  Did his best.

• 2:04:15Speaker 03

  There's a lot of people that will succumb to the pressure at the max level and check the, you know, what people were saying about them, who's gonna win.

• 2:04:22Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that's the worst.

• 2:04:23Speaker 03

  Watching your training footage you posted.

• 2:04:26Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:04:26Speaker 03

  Seeing if people like it. Talking about whatever. Yeah.

• 2:04:30Joe Rogan?

  I mean, some people thrive on it. They like haters.

• 2:04:34Speaker 03

  Bodybuilding's the worst for it too. I'm sure it's just as bad in MMA, but it's like, your entire physique is like your social media brand. So it's like, you post your physique and then the feedback you get, you kind of have to look at, I guess, because it's like what you compete with too. So you're literally taking judge feedback that's subjective and taking what they're telling you is wrong with your body to fix.

• 2:04:57Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 2:04:58Speaker 03

  And then you're just bombarded by people in the comment section are like, you lost because of this. You're lazy. How'd you not get in shape? And so even down to the lighting on stage can make you look much worse than you actually are.

• 2:05:10Joe Rogan?

  I'll be like, you showed up with soggy glutes, bitch.

• 2:05:13Speaker 03

  And it's like, I'm fucking shredded. Like, what are you talking about?

• 2:05:16Joe Rogan?

  Soggy glutes is hilarious.

• 2:05:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, and it's like, back in the 90s, uh, I don't know what it was, but it was like some of the lighting too was almost so bad that it gave this granular, sharp, kind of like, pixelated but like etchy look to the physiques and it would look like they were more cut and defined and just better down lighting overall.

• 2:05:37Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 2:05:37Speaker 03

  And some of these shows, they're so washed out with the high resolution and like the perfect, and when I say perfect, it's like almost overexposed lighting to show what's going on on the stage.

• 2:05:46Joe Rogan?

  Ah.

• 2:05:47Speaker 03

  That they look watery and fat even when they're like, and I say watery and fat, like, you know, like the fucked up perception of the fitness industry. It's like proportional to what you're expected to look like, but it's like, they could be shredded out of their mind and like having worked so hard to show up in shape and then just get like decimated online from some fucking keyboard warrior who's like, you're back, it's like too watery, bro. Go back to the fucking elliptical, you know?

• 2:06:15Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's also like bodybuilding is the sport of ego, right? Because it's only about what you look like.

• 2:06:23Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's crazy.

• 2:06:24Joe Rogan?

  That's the whole thing. It's not about how fast you are. Like, look, Gable. It's like, he's not shredded, you know, but he's ultimate freak. You know, like BJ Penn in his prime. Like, there's a lot of guys who are, they were never shredded. They were always just smooth and fuck people up. David Benavides, another one, like elite world-class boxer, light heavyweight champion. A little muffin top. Did you see his last fight? Benavides fought Anthony Yarde. Okay, perfect contrast. It just happened last weekend.

• 2:06:55Speaker 03

  Oh, I missed that one, yeah.

• 2:06:57Joe Rogan?

  Yarde is fucking shredded. He is an Adonis. He is a Greek god. He's literally like, you look at him, there's no way, if you saw the two of them, you would say that guy on the left, that has no abs and is smooth is gonna fucking destroy the guy on the right. Nobody would believe it. See if you can find, yeah, the two of them together. There's no way. There's no way. David Benavides is one of the scariest guys alive. Because he's relentless, he's so fucking skillful, he's so fast, his brutal combinations. But he's so unimpressive physically, looking at him. And Yarde looks like, like you would expect in a movie, like the perfect, the perfect scary opponent.

• 2:07:39Joe Rogan?

  Like, there's Benavides. Like, look at him. I mean, he looks like an athlete, right? Looks in shape. But now, what do you see Yarde?

• 2:07:49Joe Rogan?

  Look at Yarde. Shredded!

• 2:07:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, like fitness model.

• 2:07:53Joe Rogan?

  Fucking shredded. And brutal power, too, but he just couldn't fuck with Benavides. See, go way deep into the fight before he stops him.

• 2:08:04Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I mean, Benavides was just putting it on him. Just standing right in front. And Yarde, the thing about having that much musculature, there's just a reality of your, you know, the oxygen, just beat the shit out of him, man. And Yarde's really good, man. He's a really good boxer. But Benavides, like, look at the difference in the physiques, man. His physique is perfect.

• 2:08:26Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, it's almost like a limitation for some people where you're just like sapping up so much oxygen carrying capacity to supply the tissue.

• 2:08:34Joe Rogan?

  But it's, you know, it's also, there's a skill gap. I mean, Benavides is super fucking skillful and is, he's, this is the guy that people say Canelo's been avoiding.

• 2:08:43Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:08:44Joe Rogan?

  He kinda probably has because Benavides is the up and coming Mexican champion that everybody loves and Canelo is, you know, the king and everybody was like, this is the big fight at 168 and so Benavides had to go up to 175 to get big fights because Canelo wouldn't fight him at 168.

• 2:09:02Speaker 03

  Huh. Canelo is, uh, is he just kinda like picking and choosing?

• 2:09:06Joe Rogan?

  Look at this, look at this, bro. Come on, man. This fucking guy's good. He's so good.

• 2:09:11Speaker 03

  How old is he?

• 2:09:11Joe Rogan?

  He's young, man. I think Benavides is, is he 28? How old is David Benavides?

• 2:09:19Joe Rogan?

  He's young.

• 2:09:20Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 2:09:20Joe Rogan?

  He, he, young and elite and going through his prime right now. How old is he? 28, yeah.

• 2:09:27Speaker 03

  Oh, girl.

• 2:09:28Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. He's in his prime.

• 2:09:29Speaker 03

  You know, he's even more unassuming is like half the NHL players that play hockey.

• 2:09:34Joe Rogan?

  Oh, really?

• 2:09:34Speaker 03

  Oh, dude. Like, have you ever seen somebody look more like a frat bro who does not play sports? NHL players.

• 2:09:41Joe Rogan?

  Well, those guys have crazy cardio.

• 2:09:43Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:09:44Joe Rogan?

  Crazy cardio.

• 2:09:45Speaker 03

  But you would never think, like, I used to bounce downtown Vancouver and we'd have the teams come by that would play the Canucks and they would come party at the Champagne Lounge and the club that I was bouncing at and he'd be like, this guy is like, you know, a professional athlete. It would be the whole team and half of them looked like, you know, some dude that's like, you'd do like a fucking keg stand with at like, you know, a party. And that's like the max of his athletic capacity is being like held up to chug some beer or something.

• 2:10:12Joe Rogan?

  Well, I bet those guys drink a lot.

• 2:10:14Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:10:15Joe Rogan?

  I bet, out of all the athletes that drink, it's gotta be hockey players at the top of the heap, right?

• 2:10:20Speaker 03

  Yeah, and they're, uh, they're fucking super athletic or good endurance, you know, it's like just so unassuming physique wise, it's like.

• 2:10:28Joe Rogan?

  It's all legs.

• 2:10:29Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:10:29Joe Rogan?

  It's gotta be all legs. I bet they're shredded from the waist down.

• 2:10:32Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's crazy seeing like the sport specific translation in actual like physical, like physiology that's conducive to your sport. You see a sprinter and it's like, you know, he's a fucking 100 meter sprinter.

• 2:10:43Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:10:43Speaker 03

  And then you see, you know, another guy and it's like, you might not even think he plays sports.

• 2:10:47Joe Rogan?

  You know, I thought that when I went to the professional soccer uh uh team here in town, Austin FC, they these guys have these fucking quarter horse legs. And they're like real thin upper bodies, like they don't use their arms, they don't use, I mean, it's literally unless you're a goalie, you don't use them. Yeah, so they have like tiny little upper bodies, massive fucking legs and insane cardio. Cause they're constantly sprinting. They sprint for 90 minutes. I mean, they're just running around sprinting.

• 2:11:16Speaker 03

  There's a a couple outliers that do, look up uh Adam Traore, I think it is. I might be totally butchering.

• 2:11:24Joe Rogan?

  Well, Ronaldo, Ronaldo's.

• 2:11:25Speaker 03

  Ronaldo's pretty jacked, yeah.

• 2:11:26Joe Rogan?

  He's yeah, he's jacked.

• 2:11:28Speaker 03

  He's like the hyper optimizer too.

• 2:11:30Joe Rogan?

  He really is. I mean, that guy won't, remember there was a thing where they tried to give him a Coca-Cola? And he fucking took it aside, said, no, agua.

• 2:11:37Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:11:37Joe Rogan?

  And and Coca-Cola lost like a billion dollars in stock. Whoa, look at that guy.

• 2:11:41Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:11:43Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that guy's a freak.

• 2:11:44Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:11:44Joe Rogan?

  Well, there's always gonna be freaks out there.

• 2:11:46Speaker 03

  Yeah, but it's crazy to see a guy like that excel so well too, a sport that you would think he'd kind of be like uh barely chugging along.

• 2:11:54Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's probably just because he's been doing it his whole life, you know, and he has unbelievable genetics.

• 2:11:59Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:11:59Joe Rogan?

  Genetics are a nutty thing, man. You can't outrun genetics, but they don't always help. Like, look at Yard. Yard has perfect genetics, right?

• 2:12:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:12:07Joe Rogan?

  And then Benavides, you would look at him and you go, whoa, that's not the best genetics. Like, if he was a bodybuilder, you're like, get the fuck out of here.

• 2:12:14Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's crazy too, because sometimes you might just have like nice looking, round muscle bellies, but you don't actually have like mitochondrial density to support athletic endeavors. So you're kind of just like a show thing. You're just like a cosmetically pleasing athlete, but not actually able to translate it into anything.

• 2:12:30Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's weird. I always thought that was weird. I always thought that was weird and striking because there's a lot of guys that are just built like fucking brick shit houses. Then you see him hit the bag and be like. This is nuts, like you have zero power, it's weird.

• 2:12:44Speaker 03

  Yeah, and it's like you would think objectively more muscle equals, but sometimes they're like weak as shit even in lifts. It's just like the development, the hypertrophy they get from it is just disproportionately better.

• 2:12:54Joe Rogan?

  That's weird. Can that be optimized though? Like if they have like unbelievable looking physiques, is it just that they're not doing as much because they don't need to to look great?

• 2:13:04Speaker 03

  I think there's definitely specific training for purposes that would be conducive to sport that maybe they some might be neglecting for sure. And ways to optimize for like, like for example, you don't do hypertrophy work for bodybuilding because it's not conducive really to what you're trying to get. And I think some, some people, they want the best of both worlds and they want to like look the part and also perform. So they might be sapping bandwidth that could be allocated towards more optimal things that don't make them, you know, as cosmetically pleasing. And there's definitely things you can do from a, a support standpoint when it comes to, you know, nutrition, supplementation, et cetera.

• 2:13:43Speaker 03

  But like you are ultimately can be capped to some extent by genetic coding when it comes to like density of certain receptors. And like you can upregulate it to whatever capacity you can, but like you can only push it so far before you've kind of, you know, capped out.

• 2:13:58Joe Rogan?

  It's interesting because like the really bulky guys, they just never have the same fluidity that the guys that are built like Benavides have. Where the, the punches flow and these effortless combinations, a perfect technique. The really jacked guys that look like they're, they're destroyers.

• 2:14:14Speaker 03

  Flexibility is so much more limited too when you're like that though.

• 2:14:18Joe Rogan?

  Oh yeah, unless you really work at it, really work at it.

• 2:14:22Speaker 03

  Yeah, and you have to have a intentful approach to making sure you can maintain, you know, the flexibility that might otherwise just be innate to somebody who doesn't have to deal with a giant deltoid that like.

• 2:14:35Joe Rogan?

  Right, right, right. You know, Jaco, you know, Jaco one, you know, I've hunted with him before and Jaco like a, a correct archery release. Correct archery release is you're supposed to get a surprise shot. So as the shot breaks, your arm kind of goes back like this. Jaco is so jacked and he has such limited motion that his archery release is like this. Like it doesn't, but he's doing it correctly.

• 2:14:59Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:14:59Joe Rogan?

  But his, it doesn't move the same way. It's all just choco smash. You know, he's just, his body is designed to choke the shit out of you.

• 2:15:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:15:08Joe Rogan?

  That's all it's for. His body, his body's designed to get a hold of you, take you to the ground, snap your fucking arm in half. That's what it's for.

• 2:15:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:15:14Joe Rogan?

  It's just force and, and strength and, you know, and it's like, it's funny. I'm like, I'm like, does your arm not move that way? He's like, no, it doesn't, doesn't go back. I'm like, that's funny. Cause I, I'm watching him, watching his archery release. It's perfect. But there's, you know, you watch like a, like a Levi Morgan, a world champion pro archer. Like as the shot breaks, their arm just goes back like naturally, just like flows. His just goes, it just moves a little bit.

• 2:15:39Speaker 03

  When I was, uh, at my peak of bodybuilding size, I was in the middle of a job as a lifeguard and teaching swimming lessons to kids. And part of the teaching swimming lessons would involve showing how to.

• 2:15:51Joe Rogan?

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• 2:18:06Joe Rogan?

  Terms apply.

• 2:18:07Speaker 03

  Do the different strokes of, you know, back crawl, front crawl, breaststroke, all the different things. And when you're like a 265-pound bodybuilder, it gets pretty difficult because not only do you just sink harder because you're, you know, mostly muscle, but also like just even trying to get a straight arm past your head, it's impossible. So I actually had to stop teaching swimming.

• 2:18:30Joe Rogan?

  Your ears, your fucking shoulders are slamming into your ears.

• 2:18:33Speaker 03

  It would look like you couldn't even do what you're trying to teach like a fucking 60-year-old or something.

• 2:18:38Joe Rogan?

  Very few guys work on mobility. A great example of someone who does is Armon Sorukian. Armon Sorukian, who just won to beat Dan Hooker two weeks ago or a week ago. His mobility training is fucking super impressive. Like, he is jacked. Have you seen Armon?

• 2:18:56Speaker 03

  Yeah, he's pretty.

• 2:18:57Joe Rogan?

  Shredded. He's a guy that like doesn't pass the smell test.

• 2:19:00Speaker 03

  There's a way to improve mobility, by the way. It's just a lot of bodybuilders like do not care.

• 2:19:04Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:19:05Speaker 03

  And like there is some anatomical limitations ultimately if there is muscles literally in the way. But I just want to put it out there like I'm sure I could have figured it out if I cared at the time.

• 2:19:14Joe Rogan?

  Perhaps, but at 265 with your frame.

• 2:19:16Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, I would have been limited by like the actual anatomy. But like I had no care for optimizing mobility or anything. I was just like, what's my max bench?

• 2:19:26Joe Rogan?

  Show a photo of Derek when he was jacked, when he was super jacked. Cause there's some photos of him out there that are, you were preposterous.

• 2:19:32Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:19:33Joe Rogan?

  Do you miss those days? You ever look at that physique? God damn, I look pretty fucking good.

• 2:19:37Speaker 03

  No, I mean, I feel like I've come to peace a while ago with not looking like that anymore. It's a lot of upkeep dude, to like.

• 2:19:45Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, look at you then. Is that at your height?

• 2:19:48Speaker 03

  Uh.

• 2:19:48Joe Rogan?

  I think you were a little bigger than that at one point.

• 2:19:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think this is a, like a profile picture, so. Yeah, that, that was a more recent one. It was probably like, how I lost 75 pounds in the bottom left is probably, yeah, right there. The fat, uh, maybe one of those. That shot probably is one of the bigger ones.

• 2:20:06Joe Rogan?

  Bro, you got big at one point in time. Was that how you were before you started lifting? Look at that old school BlackBerry you have. That dates it just by the phone.

• 2:20:16Speaker 03

  Oh yeah. Yeah, it was, uh, um, I was like trying to be a competitive, uh, bodybuilder and I just kind of realized that I could look good for, you know, like, fitness industry, I guess, for kind of looking jacked for Instagram or whatever and like doing okay at like a regional level for, you know, a lower tier level of physiques, but like bodybuilding to take it to that next level, it was just like a level of stress I wouldn't be able to, one, be willing to sustain, and then two, it just wouldn't have been worth it because it was like, I had tried pushing drugs and like, I just wasn't responding to a level I knew I needed to, to continue and justify using that much.

• 2:20:56Joe Rogan?

  Is it a genetic thing?

• 2:20:57Speaker 03

  Yeah, so it's like your, uh, androgen receptor content is a, uh, largely predetermined. There are some things you can do similar to like mitochondrial density and things of that nature that you can do to upregulate and improve it. Um, and certain supplements you can use, but ultimately, your number, number of muscle fibers are going to be limited. Like there's going to be people who are just at baseline, you know, chihuahua looking humans that if you put them on gear, they just become bigger chihuahua humans essentially, but like they're never going to be,

• 2:21:31Joe Rogan?

  jacked.

• 2:21:32Speaker 03

  Yeah, they're never going to get, uh, you know, Mr. Olympia caliber. And there's a certain like muscle belly that's more conducive to looking bigger and also being able to support certain body weights is even like a health thing too. It's not just how well do you respond to drugs. It's also how long can you take them without dying? You know, so it's like some of the most highest, uh, performing and like excelling athletes are individuals who can tolerate this stuff and not go, you know, crazy from the. Some people mentally cannot handle these level of androgens and they, you know, it wrecks their sleep, it wrecks their blood work, it wrecks, they get really early cardiovascular disease.

• 2:22:10Joe Rogan?

  Psychologically too, they go crazy.

• 2:22:11Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, I've seen deaths in, you know, late twenties, mid thirties and some of them-

• 2:22:16Joe Rogan?

  There was a guy that was Vitor Belfort's trainer when Vitor first entered into the UFC. So Vitor, when he first fought in the UFC, weighed 200 pounds in his UFC debut when he fought Trey Telegman. That was UFC 12 and he was like a super athletic, fast, lethal black belt with vicious hands. And then when he fought Randy Goto, he was 240 and his neck started at the top of his head. It was, he just looked, looked like a lion.

• 2:22:43Speaker 03

  It was a giant fucking trap.

• 2:22:44Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it was just ridiculous. He was just ridiculous. And the guy who was working out with him, this guy Curtis, wound up dying very young and we used to call him garden hoses because this guy's veins were, he was so vascular. It was fucking ridiculous. We worked out next to him like, "Bro, you got garden hoses for veins. You're fucking insane." He was just insane and he was so big, like so big, 300 plus, 5'10", 300 plus pounds, just fucking jacked. He was so big and, you know, he had Vitor convinced that that was the way to go. Just fucking hit the gas, full speed.

• 2:23:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, at his peak, he was one of the sauciest dudes, or at least, you know, he was like the perfect hybrid of athleticism meets like crazy looking physique, I would say. At least at the time, from what I can recall.

• 2:23:29Joe Rogan?

  Well, the TRT, Vitor was, Vitor, so Vitor on the gear when he was younger and then no gear for a while, low period, and then when they had TRT in the UFC where they allowed it when it was legal, which was a crazy few years. That people called the TRT Vitor years where Vitor was just dominating everybody. It was terrifying.

• 2:23:50Speaker 03

  Him and Overeem are like poster childs.

• 2:23:52Joe Rogan?

  Overeem was the, that is the poster child. See if you can find a video of Armon Sarukyan's mobility workouts. Do you have it? Because he does really interesting stuff.

• 2:24:03Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:24:04Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, like, uh, stuff I've never seen, um, UFC athletes do. But I would think would be really conducive, especially to like scrambles and weird grappling positions where you want to have strength. And like odd, like odd positions of your body where you're stretched out and.

• 2:24:23Speaker 00

  There's one on the side just showing.

• 2:24:25Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, I can't imagine.

• 2:24:26Joe Rogan?

  So this, this kind of stuff, like this kind of stuff.

• 2:24:29Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:24:29Joe Rogan?

  Like, look at this. Like, look at all these things. So he's doing these kind of things all the time.

• 2:24:35Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:24:36Joe Rogan?

  Just to maintain that kind of flexibility along with all that mass and all that power that he has.

• 2:24:44Speaker 03

  Yeah, getting into some of those awkward positions, like you gotta be able to get into weird spots comfortably and.

• 2:24:50Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, this is, look at that, like, that's crazy. That's crazy rotation of his back, yeah. He's got amazing mobility, but I do have to say, he also has back problems. And it might be one of the reasons why he does this.

• 2:25:03Speaker 03

  Yeah, when you go exorcism on the fucking twister machine, I can imagine he probably ended up with something.

• 2:25:10Joe Rogan?

  I don't think that's what caused it, honestly, I think it's probably grappling. Like, he's a really elite grappler, there's a video of him grappling with Hamzat. And he keeps up with Hamzat and they're two weight classes separated. And Hamzat is fucking fantastic and, you know, they're scrambling and it's like a very competitive grappling session.

• 2:25:29Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, I mean, it's, uh, and circling back to some like, you know, the sauce days and like the garden hose guy. I do think it's good that the education is out there though for people to be able to know how to not die from this stuff now.

• 2:25:42Joe Rogan?

  Whoa, that's Curtis.

• 2:25:44Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:25:45Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's him.

• 2:25:46Speaker 03

  Because back then it would just be like.

• 2:25:47Joe Rogan?

  Go to that photo again, in the upper left? That upper left photo, that's crazy. Guy was so vascular, like, look at his bicep. Fucking bananas, right, look at that right bicep and his chest. He's got fucking garden hoses on his chest. Yeah, full chocolate butt, chocolate face, dude. He had a chocolate face.

• 2:26:05Speaker 03

  Or melanotan at the Wazzy.

• 2:26:07Joe Rogan?

  Well, you know, the guys that do it now where they keep their face white because they don't want to be called out for having black face. Have you seen that?

• 2:26:12Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's funny.

• 2:26:14Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it is funny.

• 2:26:15Speaker 03

  Have you seen the, I think we looked at the melanotan people?

• 2:26:18Joe Rogan?

  Is that a peptide?

• 2:26:20Speaker 03

  Yeah, melanotan two is a, one of the. I don't know if it's an obscure one, but I guess maybe proportional to some of the more widespread ones nowadays. But it's like a melanocortin receptor agonist. And actually, an analog of it is used for women for hypoactive, like, low sexual drive. So it actually enhances sexual drive, too. So there's like a component, there's a version of the drug that doesn't tan you, that just like makes you hornier. That women are prescribed called Vilese. And then men, there's no drug approved, but you could theoretically take it. But it gives you boners and also makes you tan. If you take the melanotan, too.

• 2:26:57Joe Rogan?

  Huh.

• 2:26:58Speaker 03

  Yeah, so it's like for bodybuilders and also suppresses appetite as well.

• 2:27:01Joe Rogan?

  Whoa, it really does that? That's cruel. That's a weird, the lighting on that one on the right is weird. Chris Bell.

• 2:27:09Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's right on the Daily Mail, though. It seems like they might have.

• 2:27:12Speaker 03

  No, no, dude, this is actually possible.

• 2:27:14Joe Rogan?

  I like how it says that, too.

• 2:27:15Speaker 03

  Yeah, you can literally manually become black with this drug.

• 2:27:20Joe Rogan?

  Didn't some lady take that? And she was on like one of them Sally Jesse Raphael shows.

• 2:27:24Speaker 03

  Yeah, and she claimed she was black.

• 2:27:25Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:27:27Speaker 03

  Yeah. And she's like, look at me. What are you gonna tell me I'm not? Yeah. She started talking like, you know.

• 2:27:33Joe Rogan?

  Oh, God.

• 2:27:34Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:27:35Joe Rogan?

  How wild.

• 2:27:36Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:27:36Joe Rogan?

  What if it did it to your hair, too?

• 2:27:38Speaker 03

  It does, because it's all pigment related. So it does make your hair blacker as well. It makes your facial hair darker.

• 2:27:44Joe Rogan?

  What does it do? Is there something like that for guys that have gray hair?

• 2:27:48Speaker 03

  Uh, yeah, like it does it to your.

• 2:27:50Joe Rogan?

  Is this the like, yeah, this is the lady.

• 2:27:54Joe Rogan?

  Look at her boobs, too. Oh, my God.

• 2:27:57Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's crazy.

• 2:27:57Joe Rogan?

  That lady might be insane. Like, I'm guessing, yes.

• 2:28:01Speaker 03

  And it's like, you almost wouldn't even think it's real if you weren't told by somebody that you actually can go that far. Like, it's, it's literally, you pick your dose and the exposure to the sun will dictate via the dosage, like, how dark you get. And you can go all the way.

• 2:28:19Joe Rogan?

  Interesting.

• 2:28:20Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:28:20Joe Rogan?

  What, like?

• 2:28:21Speaker 03

  Full chocolate body.

• 2:28:22Joe Rogan?

  Is there any side effects?

• 2:28:24Speaker 03

  Yeah, you get really nauseous if you overdo it. Um, it's actually a really potent appetite suppressor, so it's like one of the. Back in the day, I, you could find my before and after. Type in melanotan, two, more plates, more dates, and you'll see my before and after. Last time I used it.

• 2:28:40Joe Rogan?

  And did you use it for bodybuilding to try to, yeah?

• 2:28:43Speaker 03

  Because I'm pale as shit, so like, for me, the thought of having a tan was pretty awesome. There's me with my CPET mask on.

• 2:28:52Joe Rogan?

  Why'd you take it with a CPAP mascot?

• 2:28:55Speaker 03

  I was just like, I look kinda fucking traded, I'll take a pic.

• 2:28:58Joe Rogan?

  That's funny.

• 2:28:59Speaker 03

  If you scroll down, you'll see my back before and after. If you keep going, there, right there.

• 2:29:05Joe Rogan?

  Oh, wow.

• 2:29:06Speaker 03

  Yeah, and that's like weeks apart.

• 2:29:08Joe Rogan?

  Does tan you.

• 2:29:09Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:29:10Joe Rogan?

  Dude, you had fucking giant lats, man, that's nuts.

• 2:29:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:29:13Joe Rogan?

  You could jump off a fucking cliff and fly like a squirrel.

• 2:29:17Speaker 03

  Yeah. What a weird pose, eh? You just stand there like.

• 2:29:20Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, well, bodybuilding is weird, period.

• 2:29:22Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:29:23Joe Rogan?

  It is odd. It's just like, the whole idea is not the function, it's not performance, it's just looking giant.

• 2:29:30Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's like, some of the exercises don't even translate the way you think they would, too. Like, you do a, you get really good at the bench press, and then you do something else that you think is like pushing-related, or like force production, it's like, oh, I'm weak as shit here for some reason. Even though you thought it would translate, but it's not like a, it's almost training neuronal patterns, too, more than even just like the muscle. And you get hypertrophy, but you're also kinda just like training yourself to get really good at specific movements, in a way that has like no application to a lot of sports, typically.

• 2:30:01Joe Rogan?

  Just to look jacked.

• 2:30:02Speaker 03

  There are more like functional choices, obviously, but like, the ones most conducive to bodybuilding and not getting injured are oftentimes like, you know, the typical kinda like beach body style things, but there are, there are more intelligent choices, for sure, it's not all that, but.

• 2:30:17Joe Rogan?

  That's the thing, though, it's like, the, the, the guys who lift the heaviest and do it, that's, that's a very odd thing, like, and then they wind up getting fucked, like Ronnie Coleman wind up really getting fucked up. Ronnie was like famously one of the heaviest lifters as a bodybuilder.

• 2:30:33Speaker 03

  And for what it's worth, I'm absolutely not like above this style of training, like, this is like what I still kinda do, to be honest. So it's like, I do, you know, I'm still a fan of bodybuilding, I don't wanna like speak poorly on it or anything, and we oversee some of the best bodybuilders on the planet right now as well, and make sure they can do it as safely as possible, cause it's still a dangerous sport, and, um. You know, you gotta take modern knowledge to not screw yourself up nowadays.

• 2:30:58Joe Rogan?

  What, do you ever tell a guy like you just don't have the genetics to ever do this at a professional level? Do you ever have to have that conversation with people? Like you're, you're pushing the gear so hard and it's not responding.

• 2:31:09Speaker 03

  Like if I had a friend, um, I guess maybe similar to your like heart to heart you had with Shab about MMA. At the time when it was like not really worth continuing to expose danger wise.

• 2:31:21Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:31:22Speaker 03

  It's, you know, often a lot of these kinds of situations happen in bodybuilding where it's like you have a close friend who's taking exorbitant amounts of drugs and you know, it's just like killing him. And you know that the like, you're not going to make it to the Olympia. So really like, what are we doing this for?

• 2:31:38Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:31:38Speaker 03

  You have better opportunities elsewhere. Like I've had that conversation a couple of times, but in general, it's kind of like, you kind of have to have the self-awareness to know. And I think fortunately that's part of where the education comes in is back in the day, you wouldn't know that you had the bad genetics. You just think everyone's taking more shit than you. Cause you wouldn't really, you thought there was a secret that you didn't know. There was some special drug that they sourced from Europe that you're not getting.

• 2:32:05Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:32:05Speaker 03

  You know, they have the secret, you know, fill in the blank thing that the guru at the Olympia level who's coaching all the top bodybuilders has. And you just need to get to the next level and get your IFBB pro card. And then maybe I'll get to work with that guru and then he'll give me access to that drug and then I can take it to the next level. And then before you know it, a lot of these guys are still grinding for really like low level shows or like to place poorly, even at like the entry level of professional and their health is a wreck. And they're not really going to make it to where they think maybe they're on the path to. And so, I don't know. I think the more, you know, transparent look into it has made a lot of people more self-aware to check themselves.

• 2:32:48Speaker 03

  And also to know if they're even, you have to respond well from a health standpoint. It was not just how good do I look in the mirror? If you have wrecked blood work or you have a, uh, abnormal anatomical structure.

• 2:33:03Speaker 03

  Your heart before you start subjecting yourself to hormones. These are things that are all checkable now proactively. And you could tell beforehand if you're a good candidate, not just from a muscular response standpoint, but also from a health tolerant standpoint.

• 2:33:16Joe Rogan?

  I wonder what if any, what, what factor genetic engineering is going to play into bodybuilding?

• 2:33:23Speaker 03

  Myostatin inhibition.

• 2:33:25Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:33:26Speaker 03

  There is gene therapies that are being utilized now. They're just not that efficacious.

• 2:33:31Joe Rogan?

  Is myostatin inhibitors, are they, are people using them now?

• 2:33:35Speaker 03

  Pharmaceutical pipelines are trying to integrate them in order to offset muscle catalyze, catalyze them induced via GLP one agonist like semaglutin.

• 2:33:46Joe Rogan?

  Interesting.

• 2:33:47Speaker 03

  Yeah, so it's kind of a unique time because not only do we have really aggressive fat loss agents that actually work now that are not simply stemming your brain to, you know, to high hell, which a lot of the previous drugs worked like that. Now it's like we have these effective things, but they make you eat so little that we now the next thing is there's all this attention on how to lose healthy weight and not, you know, a bunch of muscle weight because there's more education around the importance of losing, you know, fat and not muscle, which is metabolically active tissue, health supporting. Whereas if you just end up skinny fat, you might be no better off than when you started, depending on the person.

• 2:34:28Speaker 03

  So, so some of the more refined currently being developed drugs are like these fat loss, appetite suppressing agents with concurrent like thermogenic properties for energy expenditure and then muscle preservation mechanisms built in that inhibit myostatin or act through other pathways to try and keep the muscle on you.

• 2:34:51Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, Brigham from Ways to Well was explaining that they're using, some people rather are using GLP ones in conjunction with IGF and they're, they're combining a bunch of different things to offset the bone density and muscle loss. And then also encouraging weightlifting while they're doing it because a lot of people are just taking them and then just shriveling because look, if you starve yourself, you will lose weight, but you're going to lose bone density, you're going to lose tissue, you're going to lose everything.

• 2:35:16Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's like one of the, I think, most important components of the usage of them is, especially with, you know, women who might be otherwise not even integrating it into their regular life, they just end up eating less of what is already a nutrient poor or protein poor diet and aren't strength training as much as, I guess proportionally to men, it's becoming more prevalent among women, obviously, which is great. But like, the bone loss and muscle loss is significant among anybody who is depriving themselves of nutrients like that and then not doing it.

• 2:35:47Joe Rogan?

  And heart tissue, too.

• 2:35:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, like, I mean, everything, you know, you're basically self-inducing malnutrition.

• 2:35:55Joe Rogan?

  I just, can't you just diet? I mean, is it, it's really a discipline thing with, not with people that are severely obese. Like, I'm in favor of GLP-1s for people, like, if you're 500 pounds, which, but I do have to say, Jelly Roll did it on the natch. He did it on the natch. He did not take GLP-1s. He's not, he's not taking nothing, man. That guy is just working out every day and he just cut all the bullshit out of his life. He got rid of his phone. He didn't have a phone for, he has one now, but he didn't have a phone for the fucking longest time. Even his fucking, his, um, when you text him, his, you know, the little image that shows up when you go phone, it's a phone with a fucking red line through it. Yeah.

• 2:36:37Speaker 03

  What does that mean?

• 2:36:38Joe Rogan?

  Like, he's not interested in phones, man.

• 2:36:40Speaker 03

  Oh, okay.

• 2:36:41Joe Rogan?

  He decided not to have a phone for a long time because he realized it was negative for his mental health and he wanted to lose a bunch of weight, but he did it naturally. He really did. He did it just through hard work and discipline and just, you know, have you seen the images of him now?

• 2:36:54Speaker 03

  No.

• 2:36:55Joe Rogan?

  Bro, there's a, him on stage with Alexander Volkanovsky and he doesn't even look the same guy. He's lost 200-plus pounds.

• 2:37:04Speaker 03

  Oh, nice.

• 2:37:04Joe Rogan?

  He looks fucking great. I mean, it's amazing.

• 2:37:07Speaker 03

  One of the things that's tough when it comes to like, the assertion that it's more a willpower thing than anything, in many cases, I do think it is, there are a lot of people with unhealthy behaviors and psychological like tendencies to just be, you know, it's easier to be lazy than not and just, you know.

• 2:37:23Joe Rogan?

  It's also the food addiction, because you have to eat.

• 2:37:26Speaker 03

  But there are some people who just, if you ultimately have a genetically higher baseline, uh, perpetual level of appetite signaling, it's kind of hard to tell that person, like, just fucking, you know. Wrench it out, bro. Like, you got this. And it's like, I know a lot of people in the fitness industry.

• 2:37:46Joe Rogan?

  Look at him, man. Look how much weight he lost. Isn't it incredible?

• 2:37:48Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's great.

• 2:37:49Joe Rogan?

  Dude, he looks fucking great. It's really amazing.

• 2:37:52Speaker 03

  No, especially impressive for individuals who are that obese to make that big of a change. It's like, it's the hardest to make that first step and get that big of a weight cut.

• 2:38:02Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and then it's momentum after that. I watched an incredible video yesterday. One of the most motivational videos I've ever seen. Um, I'll send it to you, Jamie. It's this kid, and this guy is, he's, uh, out of shape. He's, he's got high body fat, and the video is him saying that he wants to work out like David Goggins for a hundred days. He doesn't work out at all. And he goes from, um, I'll send it to you, Jamie. He goes from being this guy who's like completely out of shape to, at the end of the video, he does a fucking Ironman. You found it?

• 2:38:40Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. So this is the guy. So in the beginning, in the beginning, he's like, kind of fat, and like, that's what he looks like. And, you know, he's like motivated by Goggins. So the first day, he runs, he gets up at 5:30 in the morning, and he runs 13 miles the first day. I mean, he's never, he doesn't run at all. He doesn't work out at all. He eats junk food. And he's running, he's running past McDonald's and shit. He's all fat. By the end of it, he's doing an ultra, well, he does an ultra marathon halfway into it. And then by the end of it, he does an Ironman. And now he regularly runs 100-mile races. He got down to 140 pounds. He's shredded now. It's really, really impressive.

• 2:39:21Speaker 03

  That's awesome.

• 2:39:22Joe Rogan?

  Because it's just all dissimulate. Look at the difference. 145, 9% body fat. He started at a 184, 27% body fat. And look, he's all lean now and healthy, and he, he's running 100-mile races now. It's really amazing. Because he just did it with sheer willpower and documented the whole thing. He's in agony. His ankle's all fucked up from running, so he swims, and he swims in the pool, and then he decides to swim with weights on. He like, really becomes obsessed.

• 2:39:50Speaker 03

  Have you seen the guy who fasted for a year straight?

• 2:39:54Joe Rogan?

  Yes, that's an old story, right?

• 2:39:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:39:56Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:39:56Speaker 03

  I think that's still the record for like longest period of not eating and just like adhering to a diet.

• 2:40:04Joe Rogan?

  And he got vitamin IVs. And the guy who did that, what's interesting is he also lost skin. So his skin shrank along with his body, which I thought was fascinating.

• 2:40:16Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, I would imagine that to some extent, there's some elasticity, depending on how long you've been fat. And also like, I don't know, maybe just the tissue itself, there is some level of.

• 2:40:27Joe Rogan?

  382 days.

• 2:40:28Speaker 03

  I'm sure your body's fiending for energy from anywhere it can find it, if there is some way to, I don't know.

• 2:40:33Joe Rogan?

  But I think the interesting thing is he didn't come around, come out of it looking like a lot of these people do, where they have to get all their skin removed.

• 2:40:41Speaker 03

  Oh, I mean, I feel like there's gotta be loose skin to some extent. Does he have a shirtless?

• 2:40:47Joe Rogan?

  I don't know. There's, I don't know if there's a shirt, but that was part of the narrative. Is that his, his skin actually shrank along with his body because he wasn't eating at all.

• 2:40:55Speaker 03

  I wanna see that.

• 2:40:56Joe Rogan?

  Does that make sense?

• 2:40:57Speaker 03

  I mean, I was trying to play along for a sec, but now I'm like, if there's not a pic, I don't know, dude.

• 2:41:03Joe Rogan?

  Well, it was also, it's 1960, whatever it was.

• 2:41:05Speaker 03

  Sounds like a interesting tale that might have passed through the grapevine.

• 2:41:09Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I wouldn't recommend that, though.

• 2:41:11Speaker 03

  No.

• 2:41:12Joe Rogan?

  That sounds crazy. And then once you start eating again, how do you just keep the fucking floodgates from?

• 2:41:17Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, that's the interesting thing is some people psychologically, it's easier to adhere to something when they're full bore. And then, like, I know a lot of people who they'll do, commit to a competition because they know, I'm accountable to step on stage. I don't wanna look like shit when I'm on stage. And they do it, they get a bunch of photos done, and then after they go off the rails and they're like right back to where they started within, you know, a month or two.

• 2:41:39Joe Rogan?

  That happens to a lot of fighters. Uh, they get done with fighting and then they get really fat. It's really common. It's really common because they also develop real eating disorders because you're cutting weight all the time.

• 2:41:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. I mean, for some of them, it's like you're basically like doing bodybuilder shit, essentially.

• 2:41:59Joe Rogan?

  Well, Patty Pimblett's the best example of a current active fighter.

• 2:42:01Speaker 03

  Oh, that guy's crazy, dude.

• 2:42:03Joe Rogan?

  He gets so big.

• 2:42:04Speaker 03

  Dude, his moon face is like the best in the league, probably.

• 2:42:09Joe Rogan?

  So here it says, 382 days, from June 14th, 1965 through June 30th of 1966, he consumed only vitamins, electrolytes, and unspecified amount of yeast, a source of essential amino acids, and zero calorie beverages such as tea, coffee, and sparkling water, although occasionally added milk and/or sugar to the beverages, especially during the final weeks of the fast. Barbieri began his treatment in the hospital, but for most of the 382 days, he lived at home. Okay, it says stool samples were not taken, but he reportedly went up to 48 days between stools. Wow.

• 2:42:47Speaker 03

  Which sounds crazy, but it's like, what's there gonna?

• 2:42:49Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, what will be coming out? His starting weight was 456, and the fast officially stopped July 1966. He reached his goal weight of 180 pounds. Wow.

• 2:43:01Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's nuts.

• 2:43:02Joe Rogan?

  The next 10 days, doctors placed him on a diet of salt and then sugar in preparation for solid food. The some sources record the fast being 392 days instead of 382. Wow.

• 2:43:14Speaker 03

  Now, one of the things that's tough is it's like, even though maybe that case study exists, and there's people who just brute force willpower their way through it, some of those people otherwise might have genetically been able to tolerate, you know, the hunger signaling better than somebody else who literally cannot focus on work or anything when they're that hungry. And it almost sometimes doesn't even come down to the diet quality as much as somebody might tell them. Yeah, it does. It does to some extent, but, and certainly getting rid of the shitty processed foods and getting on a good exercise regimen and doing all the things to set yourself up in the best position will probably take care of most people, but there are some individuals who just like at baseline,

• 2:43:56Speaker 03

  even on the inverse side, I know a lot of people who simply aren't hungry, and they have to force feed themselves to gain muscle because they're just perpetually shredded. And they have like the opposite problem because their hunger signaling is so low. So it's like, people look at them as an example in the fitness industry of like, oh, this guy has the best discipline, he's like so shredded all the time. And in reality, that guy's like, I hate food.

• 2:44:19Joe Rogan?

  That's so weird.

• 2:44:20Speaker 03

  There's one guy in particular, his name's David Laid and he's like, I don't know, like a teenage, well, he's like in his twenties now, but teenagers look up to him, that's kind of like a fitness industry icon of aesthetics and he's perpetually had a shredded six pack, he's pretty jacked, he's tall, he's handsome, and he literally says on camera, "I hate eating." And he's like, serious about it. He's like, "I can't stand having to eat meals."

• 2:44:45Joe Rogan?

  What?

• 2:44:45Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:44:46Joe Rogan?

  Oh my god.

• 2:44:47Speaker 03

  Like, it's not even just like, to be a bodybuilder, like, he's just like, I don't know.

• 2:44:52Joe Rogan?

  What is he eating? How is that possible?

• 2:44:55Speaker 03

  Good, high-quality food. That's a picture I can find. I can't tell.

• 2:44:59Joe Rogan?

  You can't tell?

• 2:45:00Speaker 03

  It looks.

• 2:45:00Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it looks like he's got some fat there. Yeah, it looks like he's got a bunch of extra skin there.

• 2:45:05Speaker 03

  I mean, it's just like.

• 2:45:06Joe Rogan?

  How could he not?

• 2:45:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:45:07Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, how could he not? Find a picture of that other guy. Who's the guy that they call the most shredded guy alive?

• 2:45:13Speaker 03

  Oh, Helmet Shrubble.

• 2:45:14Joe Rogan?

  Yes, that guy.

• 2:45:16Speaker 03

  That guy's crazy.

• 2:45:17Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, find that guy. That's ridiculous.

• 2:45:19Speaker 03

  Yeah. It's H E L M U T. It's been a while since I've looked at this guy. And then S T R E B L. And, uh... Take him up? Helmet shredded is coming up, that guy? Helmet Shrubble.

• 2:45:36Joe Rogan?

  Is this him? Yeah. Oh, Jesus. That, that is insane.

• 2:45:41Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:45:42Joe Rogan?

  I mean, that guy's physique is the man with zero percent body fat. That's hilarious. Uh, that's not possible, folks.

• 2:45:50Speaker 03

  You wanna see even more shredded?

• 2:45:53Joe Rogan?

  Is that really possible? That he's got more, there's someone more shredded than that?

• 2:45:56Speaker 03

  Type in Andreas Munzer.

• 2:45:58Joe Rogan?

  Oh, I've seen that guy. But what is this guy's body fat? It's not zero. Zero's not possible. What is that? Six?

• 2:46:07Speaker 03

  Uh, five or six maybe? Nah, no, that would be like stage, super stage-ready, beyond most bodybuilders, even after the best of the best in terms of conditioning. So, I don't know, maybe like six, seven? It's kind of tough though, dude, because it's like some of these guys, they have like...

• 2:46:23Joe Rogan?

  Oh, Jesus Christ. Go back to that picture. That's nuts!

• 2:46:27Speaker 03

  That's like aggressive filtering and sharpening to look as...

• 2:46:31Joe Rogan?

  Whatever it is, that's his real body. That's insane.

• 2:46:35Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:46:36Joe Rogan?

  Even, I mean, it's obviously like the, the best possible lighting for that effect.

• 2:46:40Speaker 03

  There's distribution of fat and water that some people, it's just looks more uh shredded than another person who might otherwise store any excess fat on like their ass or like their love handles or like whatever. For a guy like that, not only is he diced and like obviously he's, he's just diced, but he has like a dry look to the skin that enhances the kind of perceived leanness. And it's like, uh, I forgot what it is. It's not dick skin lean. I forgot what the

• 2:47:10Joe Rogan?

  Dick skin lean?

• 2:47:11Speaker 03

  I forget what the terminology is, but it's like, uh, it's like white guy something. And it's just like, if you're certain white physiques are known to look more like you're almost so pale and dry that it like enhances the perceived leanness. If that makes like any sense whatsoever.

• 2:47:29Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's the weirdest thing about bodybuilding, right? You have to be super dehydrated to look great and you're almost dead.

• 2:47:35Speaker 03

  Yeah. Yeah. And then you have to, you know, go chocolate body and stuff.

• 2:47:41Joe Rogan?

  But those guys, they, they're, they're like, they blackout sometimes backstage, don't they?

• 2:47:45Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:47:46Joe Rogan?

  Whoa!

• 2:47:47Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's crazy.

• 2:47:49Joe Rogan?

  Which guy's that?

• 2:47:50Speaker 03

  That's Helmet.

• 2:47:51Joe Rogan?

  That's him?

• 2:47:52Speaker 03

  I might be, I might be totally butchering his name by the way. So if I'm, I hope.

• 2:47:58Joe Rogan?

  Bro.

• 2:47:58Speaker 03

  Helmet. I hope I'm saying it right.

• 2:48:00Joe Rogan?

  I would never wear a shirt. Why would I wear a shirt?

• 2:48:02Speaker 03

  But it's like, you would not.

• 2:48:04Joe Rogan?

  He's 47? Wow.

• 2:48:06Speaker 03

  In this article too, which is probably like five to 10 years old.

• 2:48:09Joe Rogan?

  What does he look like now? I wonder. I wonder if he keeps it up because I mean, I would be so hungry.

• 2:48:15Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:48:15Joe Rogan?

  I, I

• 2:48:16Speaker 03

  Unless you're on a GLP one.

• 2:48:17Joe Rogan?

  Oh, this is him. This is him now. Wow. That's crazy.

• 2:48:21Speaker 03

  No, that's not, that's gotta be.

• 2:48:22Joe Rogan?

  It's not? Oh, somebody else put it up there?

• 2:48:27Speaker 03

  That's one of the weird things when you're such an OG of the industry that you just have like weird residual fan pages and you don't even know if it's the guy or not.

• 2:48:35Joe Rogan?

  What's that old guy? He was bald, the old days. He had like the hair on the side.

• 2:48:39Speaker 03

  Scooby.

• 2:48:40Joe Rogan?

  Was that his name?

• 2:48:41Speaker 03

  I don't know, maybe.

• 2:48:42Joe Rogan?

  White guy.

• 2:48:43Speaker 03

  It's good.

• 2:48:43Joe Rogan?

  He was like famous shredded guy back in the early days.

• 2:48:48Speaker 03

  That sounds like-

• 2:48:48Joe Rogan?

  Of bodybuilding. He was not big.

• 2:48:50Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 2:48:51Joe Rogan?

  He was thin, but he was like super fucking ripped. God, I can't remember his name.

• 2:48:56Speaker 03

  Was he a...

• 2:48:57Joe Rogan?

  But he had like the hair on the side, like weird, like old man bald. You know, what, didn't have a full shaved head.

• 2:49:02Speaker 03

  Old man bald.

• 2:49:03Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, he looked like, like, like when people went bald in the 50s and they didn't shave the side of their head.

• 2:49:08Speaker 03

  Yeah. Fuck. I, I, I'm sure if I saw it, I'd have a know who you're talking about.

• 2:49:12Joe Rogan?

  He was famous for teaching... You got him?

• 2:49:16Speaker 03

  I feel like you have enough-

• 2:49:16Joe Rogan?

  What's his name?

• 2:49:17Speaker 00

  I don't have a name yet, but is this him?

• 2:49:18Joe Rogan?

  No, no, that's not him. That's, it's older.

• 2:49:21Speaker 03

  I bet you if you-

• 2:49:22Joe Rogan?

  It's from a long time ago. Fuck.

• 2:49:24Speaker 03

  Who's the, uh, what's your preferred AI search tool? Use that and type in what you just said.

• 2:49:29Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, put that into perplexity.

• 2:49:31Speaker 03

  Old man bald, OG fitness influencer.

• 2:49:33Speaker 00

  You have to give me a better search, like what for a time period, like 90s, 2000s?

• 2:49:37Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah, yeah, 90s. Yeah, 90s.

• 2:49:39Speaker 00

  90s?

• 2:49:40Joe Rogan?

  Oh God, his name is at the tip of my tongue. Oh, this is driving me crazy.

• 2:49:45Speaker 00

  Super shredded?

• 2:49:46Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. He would teach people how to be shredded. He had like this protocol for how to lose weight, but his whole thing was being shredded. Wasn't that big. I mean, he was, you know, fit, but not, not like, you know, bodybuilder jacked.

• 2:49:59Speaker 03

  And he was Caucasian?

• 2:50:00Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 2:50:01Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 2:50:02Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:50:02Speaker 00

  It's telling me Billy Blanks.

• 2:50:04Joe Rogan?

  No, no, no, no, no, no. White guy. Um, fuck.

• 2:50:08Speaker 03

  I was gonna say Athlean-X, but there's no way that's who you're talking about.

• 2:50:11Joe Rogan?

  No, no, no, no, no.

• 2:50:11Speaker 03

  He's got great hair.

• 2:50:12Joe Rogan?

  It's a long time ago. No, Athlean-X has got wonderful hair.

• 2:50:16Speaker 00

  It's Tony Little. It's not right either.

• 2:50:18Joe Rogan?

  So, speaking of hair, there's that new thing that is, uh, the study out of UCLA where they're gonna be able to grow hair back.

• 2:50:24Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:50:25Joe Rogan?

  Isn't that wild? Are you pumped? You don't believe it or what?

• 2:50:27Speaker 03

  No, dude, it's like every week it's some new thing, like rodent regrew hair after being shaved bald using UCLA mediated broccoli extract. Or whatever the fuck. And it's like now every Reddit scientist is dumping fucking broccoli juice on their head or whatever. It's just like never really pans out ultimately. And it's pretty shocking. I think I even mentioned this at one point that we have all these, you know, refined AI tools and drugs and some of the most developed and refined, side of nearly side effect free drugs for some things that are pretty significant, you know, roots of disease, but like hair loss, like no one has a clue.

• 2:51:04Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:51:05Speaker 03

  How to fix it with.

• 2:51:05Joe Rogan?

  Or dick size. Hair loss and dick size, two big ones.

• 2:51:10Speaker 03

  We know how to max out your genetic capacity for dick size though.

• 2:51:13Joe Rogan?

  Well, the nuttiest thing that I've been paying attention lately is so many guys that are getting their legs broken to get taller.

• 2:51:18Speaker 03

  I got an update on that guy if you wanted to.

• 2:51:19Joe Rogan?

  Oh, the Sasquatch guy? Yeah. How's he doing?

• 2:51:22Speaker 03

  Well, uh, I mean, he's walking, but it's like not perfect.

• 2:51:26Joe Rogan?

  But it's been a few years, right?

• 2:51:27Speaker 03

  Yeah, but he's also like the most extreme edge case example of it's almost if it was unfair to use guys a reference point. It's like this is the heaviest, tallest.

• 2:51:39Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:51:39Speaker 03

  Example. So it's like if anyone's.

• 2:51:40Joe Rogan?

  Cause he was six feet when he started and he got to six, six and he was not walking like a year later.

• 2:51:47Speaker 03

  Yeah. So he's.

• 2:51:49Joe Rogan?

  Crutches.

• 2:51:49Speaker 03

  He said, uh, let's see, um, I could send this to you if you wanted to put it up on the screen or I could just show you here.

• 2:51:57Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, just text it to me. What is he? Is he okay?

• 2:52:01Speaker 03

  I mean, he got sued by the company that did his surgery.

• 2:52:06Joe Rogan?

  He got sued?

• 2:52:06Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:52:07Joe Rogan?

  Why did he get sued?

• 2:52:08Speaker 03

  Because he was talking about all like the mishaps that happened when he got, cause it's kind of like, there are good clinics and bad clinics in terms of quality and he kind of was, I guess, too forthcoming about like, I did a podcast with them and they didn't like it.

• 2:52:23Joe Rogan?

  They're suing him?

• 2:52:25Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:52:25Joe Rogan?

  Literally.

• 2:52:26Speaker 03

  Well, they, they did sue him. Yeah.

• 2:52:28Joe Rogan?

  How can you sue someone for telling the truth about a procedure that didn't work out so great?

• 2:52:32Speaker 03

  I mean, great question. That's what I said.

• 2:52:36Joe Rogan?

  How could you win? Maybe you could sue someone.

• 2:52:38Speaker 03

  Maybe it's just like bury them in fees or something. I don't know.

• 2:52:42Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, probably.

• 2:52:43Speaker 03

  Um, all right. Check. See if this came through. Hopefully my LTE is good.

• 2:52:50Joe Rogan?

  Nope, not yet.

• 2:52:52Speaker 00

  You can airdrop it to my computer if it pops up.

• 2:52:55Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, there you go.

• 2:53:00Joe Rogan?

  So he's still fucked?

• 2:53:03Speaker 03

  Yeah, one sec.

• 2:53:05Joe Rogan?

  God damn, man.

• 2:53:10Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's uh, I was watching this guy uh, yesterday on Instagram, this uh, fairly thin kid. He wasn't, wasn't big, but he, he gained five inches.

• 2:53:19Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 2:53:20Joe Rogan?

  He was like five-five, now he's five-ten and he's real happy with it, but I was like, Jesus Christ. And a year later, again, in crutches. One year later, it took him a year and a half before he could walk normally.

• 2:53:31Speaker 03

  I mean, some people, that's still worth it to not have the, yeah.

• 2:53:34Joe Rogan?

  I guess, yeah. I mean, if you're five feet tall and then all of a sudden you're five-seven, I guess.

• 2:53:39Speaker 03

  Here, see if it, did it come through for you? Yeah, yeah, I was trying to figure out what to play. I airdropped it.

• 2:53:43Joe Rogan?

  Oh, you got it.

• 2:53:45Speaker 03

  I got, I got on the screen. Nice.

• 2:53:46Joe Rogan?

  Okay. So, so this is 2023, oh wow, he did it way back then?

• 2:53:52Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:53:52Joe Rogan?

  Oh my God, look how skinny his legs are, that's crazy how skinny his legs were. To have that much mass up top, that's crazy.

• 2:54:01Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:54:01Joe Rogan?

  That's probably the problem, right?

• 2:54:03Speaker 03

  Well, it definitely is uh, the, like I said, the most extreme of circumstances to impose for what was seemingly a poor quality clinic, and then also trying to go from a height that's objectively tall to a height that's objectively extremely tall with the most heavy guy that's probably ever done the procedure, you would think.

• 2:54:24Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, well, he's 300 pounds.

• 2:54:26Speaker 03

  Way, I think he was way more than that.

• 2:54:28Joe Rogan?

  You would say like, hey man, if you're gonna do this, lose upper body weight and then gain it back. So you can give your legs a chance to grow. Oh my God, that's so crazy. It just, it makes me freak out because I'm getting anxiety that just gonna snap and he's gonna fall over.

• 2:54:42Speaker 03

  Yeah, there definitely is something a little bit unnatural about watching even like the strikes on the ground.

• 2:54:48Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:54:48Speaker 03

  It makes you feel like something's just gonna like.

• 2:54:50Joe Rogan?

  Snap.

• 2:54:51Speaker 03

  Yeah, but to his credit, I mean, like, the guy literally couldn't even walk before and he's he's optimistic about it still and he thinks he's gonna make a full recovery, so.

• 2:55:00Joe Rogan?

  There is now November 2025, so that's two years later. Two years later, he can walk. What if he has to run from a fire? You know what I mean?

• 2:55:07Speaker 03

  He's fucked. For sure. Yeah.

• 2:55:10Joe Rogan?

  Well, also the mechanics. Like, your body's used to moving legs that are six inches shorter. And now, like, the knee has different pressure and this, you know, it's gotta be really fucking strange.

• 2:55:21Speaker 03

  He said, uh, let's see, bones are mostly healed, just have a lot of weakness. As legs strengthen, the pain decreases and the spasms.

• 2:55:29Joe Rogan?

  Also, he's gotta be on the sauce, too, right?

• 2:55:31Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:55:32Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. So even that's not helping?

• 2:55:34Speaker 03

  Uh, I mean, if anything, it would be, it would help in some of the recovery for bone, but it would also keep him yoked and, like, more pressure on that, too. So, like, maybe it's, uh, yeah, it's a bit of a double-edged sword there. He says, uh, major hurdles cleared, infection, knee tendinopathy, will probably walk normal within a couple of months. I can hop, but will need to strengthen much more in order to really jump, jog, and run. Planning to have a US doctor fully fix any remaining issues, but for now, legs are good.

• 2:56:06Joe Rogan?

  Where'd he get his surgery done?

• 2:56:08Speaker 03

  It was, uh, I did a podcast with him, um, last year, and I think it was Thailand clinic where it's like a...

• 2:56:16Joe Rogan?

  He did a bargain? He got a bargain? Did he do a Groupon?

• 2:56:19Speaker 03

  It definitely wasn't the, uh, best choice.

• 2:56:22Joe Rogan?

  This guy got it?

• 2:56:23Speaker 03

  He's nine years post-surgery.

• 2:56:24Joe Rogan?

  Nine? They were doing this nine years ago?

• 2:56:26Speaker 03

  So this guy, as far as I know, he is a bit of a unique case in that he was actually correcting an asymmetry. So he had, I'm almost positive, I don't wanna misspeak, I'm sure he'll correct it if he sees this, but I'm pretty sure he had one leg was, like, unusually asymmetrically shorter than the other one, and then he was kinda evening it out to what would otherwise be his, you know, like, genetic symmetrical match.

• 2:56:52Joe Rogan?

  Oh, interesting.

• 2:56:54Speaker 03

  So there's different applications to which people do this, and it's not always just, like, pure vanity, I wanna get, you know, really tall. It's sometimes, like, to correct a functional, like, asymmetry. Um, it's just, you know, a lot of people, you hear about the cases of, I wanna get really tall for superficial reasons.

• 2:57:14Joe Rogan?

  It's just a matter of time before they're just genetically engineering everybody to look like Thor. You know, this is a matter of time.

• 2:57:22Speaker 03

  I think there's a lot of people that don't want this to work though too, because it's like, if it's almost too easy or like, you know, doable, it's just like, some people, I say a lot of people unreasonably shit on these people and it's just like, you know, just take the concept for what it is, you know?

• 2:57:38Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, no, that's true, but I'm, but I'm saying about with the genetic engineering, there's a lot of people that are not want that to work either, but tough shit. Like, you're not gonna hold back science because you don't like the fact that, if, like, especially if someone has poor genetics and they just look gross and their whole life they've looked gross, and then all of a sudden something comes along, it's like, and now you're a fucking supermodel and you're six foot six and like, "Mike? It's you? What the fuck happened?" "Ah, I went to this clinic in Turkey and look what they did."

• 2:58:05Speaker 03

  Yeah, that was like you were asking about what, uh...

• 2:58:07Speaker 00

  Did we talk about this before? Bone smashing?

• 2:58:10Joe Rogan?

  What?

• 2:58:10Speaker 00

  I just saw a video about this and then thought it was fake, but this seems like a place to find out if it's real.

• 2:58:15Speaker 03

  Oh yeah, so people are like, they...

• 2:58:18Joe Rogan?

  With a hammer?

• 2:58:19Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:58:19Joe Rogan?

  What?

• 2:58:20Speaker 00

  Whatever they can do.

• 2:58:21Speaker 03

  I'm pretty sure this is not like, it's like a clickbaity thing among the people that do this stuff.

• 2:58:27Joe Rogan?

  Wait a minute, wait a minute, he's hitting himself with a fucking hammer?

• 2:58:30Speaker 00

  A kid was just using like a trophy, just banging his face all day, he's like, "I've been doing this for years."

• 2:58:35Speaker 03

  So they like think that they can, uh, induce acute like bone remodeling in the area to kinda like, enhance, like, I don't know, zygoma development or what have you and get better, you know, whatever asymmetry or deficiency they deem to have cosmetically corrected? Um, and some of them, they're just punching their face essentially before they go out at nighttime to get like a temporary pump in their cheeks.

• 2:59:03Speaker 03

  So like, think about back in the day when you went to the club and you're like, "I wanna hit some..."

• 2:59:06Joe Rogan?

  Do pushups first?

• 2:59:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:59:08Joe Rogan?

  Oh my god.

• 2:59:09Speaker 03

  So it's like you're, you're laughing and they're probably like, "Bro, it's the same thing."

• 2:59:12Joe Rogan?

  You're fucking punching your cheekbones to get them to stick out more? Oh god, that's so dumb. There's so much out there, man.

• 2:59:19Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:59:20Joe Rogan?

  Uh, listen, man, this is great. Congratulations on this. So for everybody that wants to buy it, Gorilla Mind, uh, I've been drinking it for two hours now, three almost, it's great. Works.

• 2:59:30Speaker 03

  No, thank you, man.

• 2:59:31Joe Rogan?

  I feel like, I haven't had a cup of coffee the entire podcast. That's unusual for me. Um, but it tastes good, too. What, how many flavors you got?

• 2:59:38Speaker 03

  A lot, man, fifteen plus.

• 2:59:40Joe Rogan?

  Fifteen?

• 2:59:41Speaker 03

  We gotta narrow it down to the, to the best ones, though, to really dial in the catalog, but...

• 2:59:46Joe Rogan?

  If somebody wants to buy this, order it, where's it at?

• 2:59:48Speaker 03

  Uh, gorillamind.com, we're in, uh, GNCs, vitamin shops across the country. We're gonna be in Circle K soon, and soon to be more spots, hopefully.

• 2:59:59Joe Rogan?

  Congratulations on that. And, uh, for everything else that you do, gorillamind.com.

• 3:00:03Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, and, uh, merichealth.com if you wanna get preventative medicine, expert oversight when it comes to diagnostics, optimization, et cetera.

• 3:00:11Joe Rogan?

  All right, brother, well, it's always good to hang out with you. Very fun.

• 3:00:14Speaker 03

  Thanks for having me, man.

• 3:00:14Joe Rogan?

  My pleasure, my pleasure. And again, congratulations, this is legit.

• 3:00:17Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 3:00:18Joe Rogan?

  I'm gonna buy it. All right, bye, everybody. See you.