#2406 - Russell Crowe

Russell Crowe is an Academy Award–winning actor, director, and vocalist of the band Indoor Garden Party. His latest film role is that of Nazi war criminal Hermann Göring in the historical drama “Nuremberg,” which premieres in theaters on November 7. https://www.sonyclassics.com/film/nuremberg/www.indoorgardenparty.com Perplexity: Download the app or ask Perplexity anything at https://pplx.ai/rogan. Try ZipRecruiter FOR FREE at https://ziprecruiter.com/rogan Get Gameday Deals all season long only on Uber Eats. Order Now. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  The Joe Rogan Experience.

• 0:05Speaker 01

  Training by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day.

• 0:10Joe Rogan?

  How are you, sir? Good to see you.

• 0:16Speaker 03

  Joe Rogan.

• 0:17Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, good to see you.

• 0:18Speaker 03

  Nice to see you, man.

• 0:19Joe Rogan?

  Your movie's great.

• 0:20Speaker 03

  Thank you very much.

• 0:21Joe Rogan?

  When does it come out?

• 0:22Speaker 03

  Uh, in the United States, it comes out November 7th. And then, uh, various dates over the next month and a half or so around the rest of the world.

• 0:32Joe Rogan?

  It's a fucking heavy movie, man.

• 0:33Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 0:34Joe Rogan?

  It's a heavy movie.

• 0:35Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 0:36Joe Rogan?

  The, um, the trial, that footage, was that all real footage? The Holocaust footage?

• 0:41Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 0:42Joe Rogan?

  Real footage of the plows?

• 0:43Speaker 03

  That was one of the, one of the reasons that, that inspired Jamie to go ahead, that he was given access to that footage, some of which has never been seen since 1946.

• 0:52Joe Rogan?

  Oh.

• 0:53Speaker 03

  Uh, it's a very interesting way that he makes the subject matter accessible, because it's such a dry topic from the outside, right? Here's a court case.

• 1:04Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:05Speaker 03

  You know, here's yet another courtroom drama.

• 1:07Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:08Speaker 03

  Procedural or whatever. So I can imagine that people would see that and go, well, this, uh, you know, might not be an exciting watch or something. But he sort of puts the audience in this position where he allows them to start to be amused by some of the things that are going on and the interpersonal relationships. And, you know, when the commandant of the, um, prison has to call up his two, um, top mental health experts and dress them down for getting into a fistfight, you know, things like that, kind of, it's, there's a charm to it. And then he gets you into the courtroom and he locks the door.

• 1:46Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 1:47Speaker 03

  And he goes, now you're gonna see what we're talking about. So I think it's a very interesting film device to disarm people before he starts giving them the, the real juice, you know?

• 1:59Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's a, it's also a fascinating psychological tape from, uh, the psychiatrist, from Kelly's perspective, you know, because...

• 2:11Joe Rogan?

  The way he's describing all human beings, that all human beings are capable of these horrific acts.

• 2:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, and that's the thing that was a very unpopular take at the time, actually led to his removal from the process. Because he wasn't fulfilling what the war department wanted him to say, which is, you know, all Nazis are crazy, you know, ruled by a madman. And this is a unique experience, but that's not what he found in sitting down, talking to the twenty two major Nazi sort of names that that he was assigned to post-war. He realized that every single one of these people was, you know, was normal.

• 2:58Speaker 03

  Well, there was a couple that were pretty out there, but, you know, for the most part, he was dealing with rational men.

• 3:07Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's what's scary.

• 3:08Speaker 03

  How the hell did they end up making this series of decisions if they're rational men?

• 3:13Joe Rogan?

  Well, it just seems like things just get pushed slowly but surely into this unbelievably horrific place.

• 3:23Speaker 03

  Right.

• 3:23Joe Rogan?

  Like, it starts off, there's just, it's just a war, it starts off Hitler's in power, and then slowly but surely, things get pushed. Yes.

• 3:32Speaker 03

  And that's the thing that's, you know, difficult because gigantic jumps, we can all read.

• 3:41Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 3:41Speaker 03

  But little incremental changes.

• 3:43Joe Rogan?

  Right, the boiling of the frog.

• 3:45Speaker 03

  Just how, you know, you take away this person's rights, that person's personal power, you know, and slowly, you know, you get to a point where the average person then turns around and goes, how did we get to here?

• 3:57Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 3:58Speaker 03

  You know, I thought it was, I thought it was about something else, you know, there's a smokescreen going up and I thought we were doing that. And as it turns out, it's very different.

• 4:07Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's the. One of the scariest aspects of human beings is our ability to dehumanize others. To turn others into something less than us.

• 4:18Speaker 03

  Right.

• 4:19Joe Rogan?

  Non-human and other.

• 4:21Speaker 03

  Right.

• 4:21Joe Rogan?

  Humans with families, with mothers and fathers and children.

• 4:25Speaker 03

  It's one of the most dangerous things, and I see it going on everywhere at the moment, that we're trying to say that you're either, you know, and for want of a better team name, that you're either red or that you're blue.

• 4:37Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 4:37Speaker 03

  And humans are far more nuanced than that. They're not, we're not that extreme, you know? And that, the idea that you can split all of us into two camps is kind of nuts.

• 4:54Joe Rogan?

  It's nuts.

• 4:55Speaker 03

  You know?

• 4:55Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's nuts.

• 4:56Speaker 03

  And it takes out all the room for subtlety in a discussion. And therefore, it makes communicating with each other less and less available.

• 5:08Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's just, in this country in particular, I don't know about Australian politics, but we only have two parties. And they're both essentially financed by enormous corporations. So it's a, it's a ruse, the whole thing's a ruse. And you have different social issues on each side that come up and, and then it becomes this, you're with us or against us, right versus left, but it's, there's.

• 5:30Speaker 03

  It's going nowhere good.

• 5:31Joe Rogan?

  Nowhere good.

• 5:32Speaker 03

  Yeah. We have the same sort of, you know, two-principle party system in Australia as well. But we have a slight advantage in that we're kind of on the edge of the world in a lot of ways, you know? So what I've always said is when you're growing up in Australia and New Zealand, you're growing, you grow up looking out. Yes, you understand your own culture and all that, but you grow up looking at what else is happening in the rest of the world? What's happening in Europe, what's happening in America, you know? But by and large, Americans grow up looking in.

• 6:03Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 6:04Speaker 03

  The principal sports are only played by American teams. American football, in some instances, baseball, but they're not the types of sports that we play where the pinnacle of that sport is international competition.

• 6:19Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 6:19Speaker 03

  Rugby Union, Rugby League, cricket, football, soccer, you know? So we. We grow up with that as being the pinnacle of any particular sport if you get to represent your country. And that's only really relevant in an American sense in an Olympic period, you know?

• 6:39Joe Rogan?

  Right, that's it, yeah. We never think about other sports. We mock them. We think about, you know, like, what are you doing playing cricket?

• 6:46Speaker 03

  And it's a fascinating game. And anybody who loves baseball, generally I've found baseball lovers are all about the minutiae. They're all about the stats and what those stats mean. You know, there might be a certain score on the board, but you know, there, and their team might be getting beaten, but they see in the stats that there's, you know, a certain dominance in an area. And so they, you know, they still have a hope that the outcome of the game is, may come their way. And cricket fans are the same as that. So the fact that the two never seem to meet is odd to me.

• 7:21Joe Rogan?

  It is odd.

• 7:22Speaker 03

  Because it's the same type of game.

• 7:24Joe Rogan?

  This is, cricket is larger worldwide, right? Much larger.

• 7:29Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, you have.

• 7:30Joe Rogan?

  India.

• 7:31Speaker 03

  India and Pakistan and Sri Lanka and, you know, countries like that with huge populations playing the game.

• 7:37Joe Rogan?

  Do you guys have home runs in cricket? Like where someone really cracks the ball and smashes it out of the park?

• 7:43Speaker 03

  It's called a six. If you hit the ball over the fence without it bouncing, you get six runs.

• 7:48Joe Rogan?

  Oh, okay.

• 7:49Speaker 03

  And that's, that's the version of a home run. In, see, there's different forms of the game. You have T20, then you have one day. So this is gonna be, this is gonna be difficult. T20 means that each team gets to bowl 20 overs. An over is six balls. So you have 26 ball overs that you're bowling to the batting team and they've got to try and get as many runs as they can.

• 8:16Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 8:17Speaker 03

  And then you will have a go at batting, right? So you have that version of the game, which is very short. It can be, it can happen in an evening. Then you have a one day game, which maybe, you know, starts in the afternoon, finishes by eight or nine at night. But then you have. The test match. And this is what I grew up with. It's sort of been dialed down a little bit now because they brought in shorter forms of the game. But the test match is between two countries and it's played over five days. And the idea is that both teams have to bat and bowl twice. And the result will be whatever it is at the end of five days.

• 8:52Joe Rogan?

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• 9:36Joe Rogan?

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• 10:21Joe Rogan?

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• 11:05Joe Rogan?

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• 11:32Speaker 03

  Five days. Five days, man. Five full days. And they start and then they have morning tea. And then they have another break. They have lunch. And then they have afternoon tea. And if it's really hot every now and then, somebody will walk out and give them drinks. You know, it's very civilized. My cousin Martin was a great cricket player. He was the captain of New Zealand. My other cousin Jeffrey was also a captain of New Zealand. So I kind of grew up in a cricketing family. And it was one of the pathways for me that was, you know, potentially play cricket, you know? But when you've got two of your cousins who are as good as they were, it's a very crowded room. So how am I going to make any kind of statement here? When one of them, Martin, at his peak,

• 12:16Speaker 03

  he was called by Sports Illustrated, I believe, the Michael Jordan of world cricket. Wow. He was a very dominant player in his day. And he used to call, we used to discuss test matches as the gentleman's war. Because you have a defined space. You have X amount of players. And you've got to stop that little ball in this gigantic 180 meter by 120 meter oval. You've got to stop that little red ball from going between the players and therefore, you know, preventing the batsmen from scoring runs. But that five-day game, the way that it ebbs and flows. Once you're into it, it's the only way you wanna watch cricket. Cause it's like, you know, at one moment, your team can be just so far ahead.

• 12:59Speaker 03

  You're like, eh, just, you know, and then it'll turn on a dime. And day two, things get really dark for your team, you know. Day three, you got an edge back again. Day four, it's fantastic, man. And as a kid, I used to go and attend every day of a five day game.

• 13:15Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 13:16Speaker 03

  Yeah, it was crazy.

• 13:17Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, there's nothing like that here.

• 13:18Speaker 03

  No, no. I mean, it really requires, um, I mean, just like, you know, five, five day game. It's like five news cycles, right?

• 13:28Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 13:30Speaker 03

  We're not really set up for that sort of patience and.

• 13:33Joe Rogan?

  How's it broadcast? Is it streaming?

• 13:35Speaker 03

  Television.

• 13:36Joe Rogan?

  Television.

• 13:36Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 13:37Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 13:37Speaker 03

  Yeah. Yeah, I mean, you know, there's cables and companies and stuff have got involved now, but it used to be national network. And when cricket season was on, I mean, you know, back in the day, people would come from overseas and into Australia in the summer. And then ask the question, is there anything else on television except sport?

• 13:56Joe Rogan?

  Is it, so when, when you're, do they take commercial breaks?

• 14:01Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 14:01Joe Rogan?

  Okay, they do. So that's the problem with soccer, right? Soccer in America, the reason why it's very hard to sell is not just that a lot of people don't play it.

• 14:10Speaker 03

  Right.

• 14:10Joe Rogan?

  But it says there's no commercial breaks.

• 14:12Speaker 03

  Right.

• 14:12Joe Rogan?

  They just keep going.

• 14:13Speaker 03

  You have a huge number of people who play association football, soccer in this country.

• 14:17Joe Rogan?

  Oh, for sure. Listen, they have a professional team here.

• 14:19Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 14:20Joe Rogan?

  I've been to the game, but it's nowhere near the involvement that football has. American football.

• 14:25Speaker 03

  American football in this country.

• 14:26Joe Rogan?

  No, not even close.

• 14:27Speaker 03

  Yeah. Well, see, all of our sports that we like in Australia, apart from cricket, tend to be quite compact, you know? Uh, eighty minute game, ninety minute game, um, ten minute halftime. And it's part of your day. It's not your whole day.

• 14:42Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 14:42Speaker 03

  It's like, we'll go to a football game and then we'll go and, you know, have dinner or go and do something else. So we have that same thing where the action is so continuous that the idea of stopping for a commercial break gets quite tricky.

• 14:54Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that makes sense. It's always been fascinating to me that rugby never took off in America.

• 15:01Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 15:01Joe Rogan?

  Cause it seems like kind of a more savage version of football.

• 15:05Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, the, the way I think it sort of plays out is you've got rugby union, right? Which is, um, fifteen men a side.

• 15:14Speaker 03

  Every time a player is tackled, you recompete for the ball. You have rocks, malls, you have line outs. Uh, it's a very different game. But there's another version of rugby called Rugby League, which was played in the north of England. And that has a defined period of offence and defence. And I think that's where American football comes from. I actually own a team in Australia in the NRL, the National Rugby League, the South Sydney Rabbitohs, the oldest team in the game, nineteen oh eight we were formed. Uh, bought the team in two thousand and six. Uh, and it's very easy to explain to Americans, have American friends come down. I spend maybe twenty minutes talking to them and they get the game and they start to dig it.

• 15:53Speaker 03

  My girlfriend at the moment, actually, Brittany, uh, was one of the reasons why I really started being attracted to her. Because she understood the game straight away, you know. Then I find out that when she was younger, she was a cheerleader for the New Orleans Saints.

• 16:09Joe Rogan?

  Oh, wow.

• 16:10Speaker 03

  While she was studying electrical engineering.

• 16:14Speaker 03

  So it, yeah, it's a.

• 16:16Joe Rogan?

  Very similar.

• 16:17Speaker 03

  Rugby League is a very easy game for Americans to follow. Now, how it's refereed becomes frustrating for an American audience because it's, there's so much room for interpretation. Referee to referee, game to game, situation to situation. So it can get frustrating. I think one of the greatest things about American football from the outside or from an objective point of view, it seems that every single thing that the NFL try to do is based on and across the board fairness for everyone. You know, so those, you know, the conversations were between the referees and what have you, seem to be everybody's on the same page.

• 16:57Speaker 03

  And sometimes when you're watching Rugby League, something that you saw somebody else get sent from the field for the week before, and now nothing happens this week. But it's the same kind of hit or whatever. I was like, what? You know, so I've had a few Americans get very frustrated. No, I think that, yeah, I think the game moves very fast.

• 17:18Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 17:19Speaker 03

  And, you know, referees don't have eyes on all sides of their head, you know?

• 17:23Joe Rogan?

  But do you have referee corruption over there? Because you have gambling.

• 17:26Speaker 03

  We definitely have gambling.

• 17:28Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I know you have gambling because I read ads for them. Ladbrokes?

• 17:32Speaker 03

  Absolutely crazy, the way gambling has become such a significant player. I also read the other day that now it turns out that 50% of ownership of all the major gambling things are in the hands of sports teams.

• 17:46Joe Rogan?

  Oh, boy.

• 17:47Speaker 03

  So what's going on? Yeah, I think, I think what we have as opposed to corruption is natural bias. Because guys come out of the game. So there's, you know, 17 clubs in the, in the NRL at the moment. And guys who are in positions like referees or video refs or whatever, they have a club. You know, they grew up associated to one particular geographic area and that's their club. So it's very difficult for anyone to, to truly objectively see their own natural bias.

• 18:19Joe Rogan?

  Hmm. But also, there's gotta be some corruption if there's gambling. If, if it's so subjective that you can make calls that you would, that didn't, that someone got in trouble a week before and then this week, nothing, like that kind of subjectivity where it's up to the referee to make a decision. If I was a corrupt person, a gambler, especially if I was a mobster, I would reach out to that referee and say, you know, it's within our best interests.

• 18:44Speaker 03

  To work together on this.

• 18:45Joe Rogan?

  Yes, let's, uh, let's make something happen.

• 18:47Speaker 03

  I would hope in all innocence.

• 18:52Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, well, you have to say that, you own a team.

• 18:54Speaker 03

  Yeah, and, and you've got to sort of remain a little impartial in, in these things.

• 19:00Joe Rogan?

  Um, what was that scandal in America, Jamie? The most recent one, the basketball one? It, it had to do-

• 19:07Speaker 04

  It's still ongoing.

• 19:08Joe Rogan?

  It's still ongoing?

• 19:09Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 19:09Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. What did, what are they accusing these guys of, though? I know they're, they rigged poker games, but there's also-

• 19:15Speaker 04

  Yeah, that was separate.

• 19:16Joe Rogan?

  -accusations about the basketball games themselves.

• 19:18Speaker 04

  Uh, most of it would have been like based off of player props. So like, uh, they're, they know that they're not going to take themselves out of the game. So they just take the under on, I'm not going to score 20 points, I'm only going to be there for 10 minutes. Wink wink, or like, you know, these players aren't gonna play in this game that against us. That's sort of what.

• 19:37Speaker 03

  This is players gambling, is it?

• 19:38Speaker 04

  One of the coaches was doing it too, or like giving information, and he was, thing is, is they were tied to the poker game too.

• 19:45Joe Rogan?

  Oh.

• 19:46Speaker 04

  And.

• 19:47Joe Rogan?

  So it's just a full-on criminal enterprise?

• 19:48Speaker 04

  I just saw on the news today that the one player who's been tossed around, he had a big IRS debt, and all of this sort of started around the same time too.

• 19:57Joe Rogan?

  Oh, he's trying to pay off his debt, so he got corrupt.

• 20:00Speaker 04

  Who knows?

• 20:01Joe Rogan?

  Who knows? But they, weren't they ripping off their friends in the poker games?

• 20:04Speaker 04

  That I don't know, because I've seen.

• 20:06Joe Rogan?

  Allegedly?

• 20:07Speaker 04

  Yeah, I've seen clips of this, people knew about this a year or two ago on Instagram, they're like, I was at a fucking rigged game, and I know the people involved and know that I should not have, like, I'm not going there and losing my money.

• 20:20Speaker 03

  How did they know it was rigged?

• 20:21Speaker 04

  The people involved, he said, he's like, someone else told me this, it's all in the up and up, and then he's like, I know everybody in the game, it's definitely not. What are you talking about? How that guy knew, I don't, he didn't really.

• 20:32Joe Rogan?

  Well, they had crazy shit, like they could read the cards, they had like an x-ray machine.

• 20:38Speaker 04

  They had cameras in the chip holders, they had all sorts, I don't know who they were communicating to though, there's a lot going on, but it was happening in LA, Vegas, New York, all over the place.

• 20:47Joe Rogan?

  God.

• 20:49Joe Rogan?

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• 22:05Speaker 04

  Lot of money.

• 22:05Joe Rogan?

  Gambling.

• 22:06Speaker 04

  Fifty million dollar buyings, I heard.

• 22:07Speaker 03

  I stay away from it. I know how you feel about it, but...

• 22:09Joe Rogan?

  About gambling?

• 22:10Speaker 03

  Yeah. I had an experience when I was a young fellow. It was the first time I was in America, actually. And I'd had all these intense meetings and what have you, and I had a decision to make. I had ten different people wanting to be my agent. So I rented a car and I went for a drive. And I went up to San Francisco along the coast. And then I turned inland, thinking, you know, well, I've heard of Reno, so I'll go there, right? So I went to Reno, Nevada. And I had X amount of money, right? I was a very, I wasn't, you know, I was doing well in my career, but I didn't have a lot of cash. So I had a couple of hundred dollars in my pocket, that's all, you know?

• 22:54Speaker 03

  So I went and had a beer and I started playing blackjack on a five-dollar table. And it was a single deck. This is how long ago this was, ninety-two or something, right? So I'm playing and I did pretty well. I, you know, amassed a few hundred dollars, feeling very cocky and confident about myself. And I probably just then had one beer too many. And I went for a walk down the street and I saw a roulette table and I think, that'll be me, right? Sucker. And so everything I won, I lost. And by the time I sort of got my shit back together, I had twenty-five dollars in my pocket. I'm in Reno, I got a quarter, a tank of gas, and I gotta get back to LA. I don't have a credit card.

• 23:35Joe Rogan?

  Oh, boy.

• 23:37Speaker 03

  So as it was, I'd paid for my hotel in advance, so that that's all cool. But I was like, okay, I got a sober up here. So I go back to the place I started, back to that same five dollar table. And I just very carefully, when I got to like a hundred and ninety dollars, which I knew was gonna be enough to get me back with petrol and food and all that, so I stopped. I go out into the car park of this hotel. It's like eleven midnight, something like that. And I just started vibrating, man. My whole body was like shaking, like I was having some kind of fit, you know? And it was just really weird. I I got back to the hotel room and I called my mum, collect in New Zealand. And I just say, I just did this, I went through this. She goes, oh, right, darling, um, something I've never told you.

• 24:23Speaker 03

  But your great grandfather was a professional gambler.

• 24:29Speaker 03

  And at one point in time, he gambled his house away. He had to go and get his daughters, wake them up, get his wife and tell them this is where they no longer live. And that one act kept that family in, you know, relative terms, poor for another two generations.

• 24:53Speaker 03

  That one impulsive act to gamble his house. Yeah, so I know it's in me, so I don't go anywhere near it. That's fascinating. Once a year, there's a uh, a horse race in Australia called the Melbourne Cup. And I will focus on that. And if I happen to be at home and and I have uh, the day off kind of thing, I'll uh, put a bit of money on that. But that's it, you know, everything else that I do in my life is gambling. Becoming an actor, massive gamble. What are you talking about? It's ridiculous, you know, buying a football team. It's it's all a version of gambling. But the idea that you're just giving money away to a system that has the way, it's not fair.

• 25:36Speaker 03

  It's not gonna benefit you. And at the end of the day, in the longer term, you're simply not gonna win. It sort of, that drives me a little crazy. I don't wanna get involved in that.

• 25:46Joe Rogan?

  The vibration thing, do you think, do you think gambling is genetic? Like, there's a thought that a lot of, there's, there's certain behaviors that are in people that are passed down from their parents. There's certain thought processes, there's certain inclinations.

• 26:02Speaker 03

  Right.

• 26:03Joe Rogan?

  That it's some genetic proponent that we haven't clearly identified yet. That it's, you know, they used to think that people are a blank slate. You're born, you're a blank slate, you learn everything from your environment.

• 26:13Speaker 03

  But we know that's not real.

• 26:14Joe Rogan?

  It's not real, no. There's a shit ton that you get from your genes. It's very weird. And I wonder if you got that from your grandfather.

• 26:23Speaker 03

  It, it, it really feels like it's in me and I have to work against it.

• 26:28Joe Rogan?

  Thank God you have discipline, that you could go back to the table.

• 26:32Speaker 03

  In one area.

• 26:34Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's a good area to have it in.

• 26:35Speaker 03

  But that's how desperate the situation was. It's like, I'm standing there in Reno realizing, I can't even get back to LA.

• 26:43Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 26:44Speaker 03

  I've got a rental car, so I had to, I just took it really, really slowly. And I do this thing if I'm playing in a situation like that. Because occasionally I will go and play blackjack at a casino if I'm in a group of people. Uh, because if you're all disciplined and if you hold every seat on a table, you can turn the tide against the house very easily.

• 27:11Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 27:12Speaker 03

  They hate you doing it and they try to break it up and put somebody in the middle of you, whatever. But if you, and actually, funnily enough, it was Tom Cruise taught me this. Uh, if you have, so the first chair and the last chair make the calls and the decisions and everybody else just sits on 12 and above. And you watch the mathematics come your way. Now, way, way back in the day, right? It would have been, hmm, 95, 96, 97, something like that, right? Tom calls me, he's married to Nicole Kidman at the time. Calls me, he goes, you know, hey bud, we've got this thing set up. Steve Wynn has put on a jet, he's gonna fly us to Vegas, right?

• 27:54Speaker 03

  We're allowed to play at Shadow Creek, we're allowed to play golf at Shadow Creek. So I'm not really a golfer, but it sounded good to me, jumped on the plane, went there. We're playing Shadow Creek, lightning storm comes up. Tom's like in the middle of the fairway, still trying to play, we're going, dude.

• 28:11Speaker 03

  Put the iron down, it's this lightning, you know. So we, we know, we enjoyed ourselves at the golf course. Then we go back to the Winds Hotel and they've given us Michael Jackson's Lanai to change clothes in or whatever. We go and get some Chinese food. The, you know, the Jets comp, the golf's comp, the Lanai's comp, the food's comp. And then we go and play uh Blackjack together. Tom explains what the team's gonna do. And we take twenty five thousand dollars or more off the table.

• 28:39Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 28:39Speaker 03

  Go back to the airport, get on the comp jet, fly back to um LA. But we finished as a group. We then attacked the New York Times crossword and we did the last word as we were landing in Los Angeles. So to me, it was like, that, I believe, was a perfect day.

• 28:58Joe Rogan?

  That's a team effort.

• 28:59Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 29:00Joe Rogan?

  That sounds like a lot of fun.

• 29:01Speaker 03

  It was, it was a great day. Um but that's sort of like, that was one of the early experiences where, okay, so you can have fun with, with these sort of games as long as you don't take them too seriously. My current girlfriend is a massive poker player. She loves it and she's really quite good at it. She's played in a couple of uh female only tournaments and things like that, you know. So I, yeah, uh I've, I've watched them play, but I don't get involved. I don't wanna get involved. I don't wanna activate that.

• 29:29Joe Rogan?

  That thing.

• 29:30Speaker 03

  Yeah, because I, I am kind of, you know, I do have a reckless streak, you know. I can imagine in the wrong moment, if I'm, you know.

• 29:38Joe Rogan?

  Tipsy?

• 29:39Speaker 03

  Uh well, not, it wouldn't be tipsy. It would be more like drunk on some kind of ego power kind of thing. Where, yeah, I can, I can turn the universe, I can make it come my way. I'll bet my house.

• 29:51Speaker 03

  I just gotta stay away from that.

• 29:53Joe Rogan?

  Oy, did you see Uncut Gems?

• 29:55Speaker 03

  No.

• 29:55Joe Rogan?

  Oh, it's the, probably the best gambling movie ever. Adam Sandler plays a degenerate gambling junkie.

• 30:02Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 30:02Joe Rogan?

  It's not a, not a comedy at all. Amazing meal, amazing movie.

• 30:06Speaker 03

  I love how he's. Getting, it just seems like he's getting some due respect these days.

• 30:11Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 30:12Speaker 03

  People are really starting to see how big his effect was and what he can do.

• 30:17Joe Rogan?

  Also, those movies are fun. All those Happy Gilmore and they're fun movies. I love those movies. They're innocent, enjoyable entertainment and he's really good at them. Jack and Jill, they're hilarious movies.

• 30:31Speaker 03

  Yeah, and that right these days, because I've got a project at the moment, which on the surface you would have to call a comedy. Nobody wants to discuss it. Nobody wants to talk about adult comedies. So where does that mean? Where does that mean we're going to?

• 30:46Joe Rogan?

  Well.

• 30:46Speaker 03

  If we're sort of reducing comedy as a genre.

• 30:48Joe Rogan?

  It's only in the film world. In the stand-up world, it's like everybody's completely pushed back against it and they're going the other direction. They're just, they're going back to like nineteen ninety's style comedy.

• 30:59Speaker 03

  Right.

• 30:59Joe Rogan?

  Which is just say whatever the fuck you think is funny.

• 31:01Speaker 03

  Confrontational stuff.

• 31:02Joe Rogan?

  It's not, no one means these things. You're saying things because they're funny. That's it. You know, we're, it's just like Bob Marley didn't really shoot the sheriff. You get it?

• 31:11Speaker 03

  Right.

• 31:11Joe Rogan?

  You know, it's like, we're just talking shit and.

• 31:14Speaker 03

  I heard a funny story about that, actually.

• 31:16Joe Rogan?

  Yeah?

• 31:16Speaker 03

  Just, just in passing. I can't remember who told me, maybe, I won't even guess, but.

• 31:23Speaker 03

  I think Clapton was living in New York or London or somewhere and he had a, he had a, a party at his house. And it, because he just had that record come out and it would have gone number one. And he had it stuck on his fridge with a magnet, you know, like the charts with a circle around it, you know? I shot the sheriff, number one, Eric Clapton. And Bob Marley was at the party. And apparently he found a pen and he wrote onto Clapton's fridge, no, Eric, I shot the sheriff.

• 31:54Joe Rogan?

  I shot him first, bitch.

• 31:57Joe Rogan?

  That's hilarious. But that Uncut Gems film is, it is, it, it, it is a perfect movie. In regards to like the way it treats a degenerate gambler. He's a jewelry broker, jewelry salesman. And he's just out of his fucking mind. It's always sports. It's always this. It's always, there's, there's always a game. That's going on and he's betting this and you get so much anxiety watching the movie like, oh God, don't do that. Don't do that. Don't, oh Jesus, what are you doing? It's like the whole movie, my palms are sweating. I'm moving around in my chair because I, as a kid. Grew up in pool halls, like from the time, not grew up in pool halls, but I spent so much

• 32:40Joe Rogan?

  time between age twenty-three and, you know, into my thirties. I was in pool halls all the time.

• 32:46Speaker 03

  Right.

• 32:46Joe Rogan?

  And I played a lot of pool and I was around a lot of addicted gamblers. And I never got it. It never hit me. But I was always just fascinated by the grip that it had on people. It was like they would, their eyes would be going back and forth, their fucking skin would be pale. It gripped them like a drug. It gripped them like crystal meth.

• 33:10Speaker 03

  I, I really dislike the way in Australia, we have normalized it. You know, they're doing a sports report on the news, the national news, and they'll tell you.

• 33:23Joe Rogan?

  The odds.

• 33:24Speaker 03

  The odds.

• 33:24Joe Rogan?

  Well, we do that with the UFC. With the UFC, we give the odds. They even, I don't know if they announce round by round odds, but the, I think they do. But the, I don't, I try not to pay attention to it because I don't vote, I, excuse me, I don't gamble on the UFC. But I used to. So I used to gamble on the UFC when I first started working for them. And then I was like, I don't think I should do this anymore.

• 33:47Speaker 03

  Probably.

• 33:48Joe Rogan?

  This is a long time ago, though. So what I started doing is giving my friend Aubrey, who's my business partner at Onnit, I started giving him tips. And he was like eighty-four percent.

• 33:59Speaker 03

  Right.

• 33:59Joe Rogan?

  Because I know the sport. And a lot of these guys would be coming from Japan or coming from Russia. And I'd be like, oh, this guy from Brazil, Anderson Silva, bet the fucking house. I go, bet the fucking house. Because people do.

• 34:12Speaker 03

  Not my house, though.

• 34:13Joe Rogan?

  Not my house.

• 34:14Speaker 03

  Your house.

• 34:14Joe Rogan?

  But there's people that were coming across from other organizations that I was a giant fan of. And the bookmakers were woefully uneducated about, especially foreign fighters. And there's a thing, like, if you are gambling on MMA and you don't know how to fight, you're just guessing. You don't really, we're all just guessing when we two guys get into the cage together. But you're really guessing. Like, you really don't, you can't recognize, like, how fast a person is. You can't recognize how good they are at countering. You just know stats and you know, but you don't know how to do it. And if you don't know how to do it, you can't really see it. You don't really know.

• 34:55Joe Rogan?

  So at a certain point in time, I stopped um just on my own gambling, so like I don't cause I was people were accusing me of being biased one way or the other anyway, which maybe I was. You know, I got better at that, but I wanted to make sure that no one thought that. So I was like, I'm only gambling a couple hundred bucks or something like that. I wasn't doing anything crazy.

• 35:14Speaker 03

  Right.

• 35:14Joe Rogan?

  But the the fucking people that I have friends, like good friends, that are just hooked. And when they start talking about like fights that they're gambling on, or they put so much money on this and money on that. I'm like, oh my god. I know guys that put millions of dollars on a fight. I'm like, oh my god.

• 35:34Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 35:35Joe Rogan?

  You're freaking me out. You're fucking freaking me out, man. I don't care how wealthy you are. If you put a three million dollar bet on a fight and you lose, like you're not gonna sleep for a week.

• 35:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, I just wouldn't be able to wake up with myself the next day.

• 35:49Joe Rogan?

  And then if you win.

• 35:50Speaker 03

  So foolish.

• 35:52Joe Rogan?

  If you win, it might be even worse, cause now you're gonna keep doing it.

• 35:55Speaker 03

  Now you get that, you get the sting. Yeah, the thing is with with what we do in Australia, like the newspapers, like you know, network news services. Uh, we allow betting ads. It is so all prevailing.

• 36:10Joe Rogan?

  Mm hmm.

• 36:10Speaker 03

  You know, I had an experience probably a year or two ago. And I see my two boys are talking to a mate of theirs and they've all got their phones out.

• 36:22Speaker 03

  And I realized they were checking up on their bets.

• 36:26Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 36:27Speaker 03

  You know, so I had to have a big conversation with my boys and say, look, every single dollar that you have comes out of my pocket. And if I give you a dollar, that's not a dollar to gamble with. I had to have a very serious conversation with them about it. It's like, I don't care if you think it's fun, you know, I don't care. You've got to actually see it for what it is.

• 36:45Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 36:45Speaker 03

  Cause what's five or ten dollars now is easily gonna turn into four or five hundred dollars in a minute, a thousand dollars. You know, sooner or later, you will allow yourself to think that this thing is, you know, beyond fun and it's a way for you to earn back your losses or whatever.

• 37:01Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 37:02Speaker 03

  So I just had to have a chat with them and they were um. Probably looking at me going, how old is our father? That he doesn't understand that everybody does this. Yeah, but I just had to let him know from my point of view. I didn't appreciate them taking my hard earned dollars and wasting them.

• 37:19Joe Rogan?

  I get it, but I also like that it exists because I want the ability. If I wasn't working for the UFC and I could go to the fights and gamble on the fights, I would definitely do it because it's a knowledge thing. This episode is brought to you by Uber Eats. Every football season, the same thing happens. The game somehow makes everyone really hungry. Quarterback scrambles, clearly a sign it's time for breakfast burritos. Turnovers, suddenly dessert at 2 P M. Doesn't sound so crazy. And wing formations, well, those can only mean buffalo wings as if they're ever not in play. Even the goalposts start looking suspiciously like french fries. It's almost like football is sending the message to eat more food.

• 38:01Joe Rogan?

  The good news, Uber Eats makes those cravings easy to satisfy with game day deals all season long. From wings and pizza to chips and drinks, even last minute grocery runs. You'll find savings on all your favorites delivered straight to your door. Order now on Uber Eats.

• 38:21Speaker 03

  I don't need it. If I'm into the sport.

• 38:24Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 38:24Speaker 03

  I want to see the game, you know? I care about.

• 38:27Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 38:28Speaker 03

  What happens in the game.

• 38:29Joe Rogan?

  I get it.

• 38:30Speaker 03

  Possibly because from the owner point of view, I don't, I wouldn't want any extra pressure.

• 38:35Joe Rogan?

  Of course.

• 38:36Speaker 03

  So I don't understand why here's, here's this game. It's like two teams of pristine athletes who have busted their nuts to get in this situation. And the competition, the physical competition between these two teams isn't enough. You got to put something else on the line, you know?

• 38:54Joe Rogan?

  It just adds, it adds for some people.

• 38:57Speaker 03

  For some people, yeah.

• 38:57Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, they get that extra juice out of the knowing. The, the thing is also, um, as a commentator, I am as unbiased as humanly possible. And it's a hard thing when friends fight because there's some guys that fight that are my good friends. And I'm like, I just hope they don't get hurt. I want them to win, but I have to be excited about the other guy winning, which is kind of crazy. The other guy's beating up your friend.

• 39:19Speaker 03

  Right, right.

• 39:19Joe Rogan?

  And you have to be excited about it. So it's good that I don't have any money riding on fights because I don't have, I'm not happy if one person wins or loses.

• 39:28Speaker 03

  Right.

• 39:28Joe Rogan?

  My, my idea is we're going to see who's the better athlete, who's the better fighter. And. I can handle gambling. I've never had a gambling problem because I'm not a risk averse person, obviously. I like risks, but I'm also, I'm, I'm safe. Like, I know what I'm doing, even though I do dangerous things.

• 39:47Speaker 03

  You've had a look at it first.

• 39:49Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 39:49Speaker 03

  But you do have, you have that ability and inclination for examination, so.

• 39:55Joe Rogan?

  You have to have that. And I feel like that's the case with alcohol, that's the case with cigarettes. I'm in favor of all those things being legal. But I know so many people that have a problem with alcohol, like cannot live without alcohol. I know so many people that can't quit smoking cigarettes. I feel like you should be able to do whatever you want to do. And I want, I want freedom. And that comes with gambling. And I think gambling freedom, like the ability to decide that you want to take a risk of something, that should be available. But we should educate people as to like, what is actually going on in your mind that's allowing you to get captured by this thing? And now you're chasing bad money and you're in a downward spiral. Management, like, understanding, okay, this

• 40:39Joe Rogan?

  is a thrill, but this thrill could take over your whole life.

• 40:43Speaker 03

  Right.

• 40:43Joe Rogan?

  If you are maybe genetically susceptible, psychologically susceptible, like, understand what it is. But I don't think we should take away cars that can go over 60 miles an hour because some people crash their cars and die.

• 40:55Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 40:56Joe Rogan?

  You know what I mean? I feel like, I like that gambling exists, and I always wished that it existed back in the day. I was like, it'd be fun, bet a hundred bucks on this or a hundred bucks on that. But I don't have the problem. Like, I could see if I came from a family that was torn apart by gambling, you'd go, you know, you don't understand, my dad lost our house. Like, okay, but that was a bad decision. You know, your dad could have died drinking and driving and smashed into a tree. These are bad decisions. You don't have to make bad decisions just because something is tempting you. It's an interesting, it's an interesting debate. Because do you nanny state the whole world? Do you think gambling should be illegal? You think you should have to go to Vegas for it? That seems

• 41:40Joe Rogan?

  kind of crazy. I mean, it's certainly not a black or white issue to me. There's a lot of gray area involved in it. And I know there's a lot of people that push back on the idea of, of whether these gambling apps and all these different things should be legal and like.

• 41:56Speaker 03

  It's the normalization process that bothers me the most.

• 42:00Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 42:01Speaker 03

  That it's part of the news service.

• 42:03Joe Rogan?

  With the apps.

• 42:04Speaker 03

  That it's, but it's just put in front of you, whether you're interested in it or not. You know, this team is playing that team and here's the odds.

• 42:13Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 42:13Speaker 03

  I just don't, I don't think it's healthy to have that as much of, you know, those stats as much a part of the actual news report as who's playing and what's on the line.

• 42:29Joe Rogan?

  The thing about it though is it does lead you to have debate about, like, here's a perfect example. Canelo Alvarez versus Terrence Crawford. Terrence Crawford was going up two weight classes. In my mind though, he's so skillful, I gave him a chance. I was like, I favor him to win, but I believe he was the underdog. What was the, find out what the odds were for the Canelo Alvarez, Terrence Crawford fight. I believe he was the underdog, even though he was an undefeated, multi-division world champion, like, one of the greatest of all time for sure. But he was jumping up from the 154-pound weight class where he'd just won the belt. He was the 147-pound weight class, all the way up to 168. That's a big leap.

• 43:15Joe Rogan?

  14 pounds. And everybody thought Canelo's gonna have too much power, he's gonna be too big. I'm like, I don't think so. I don't think that's correct. What was the odds? Was it the same? Crawford was underdog. Yeah, Crawford was the underdog. So not a huge underdog. Plus 135 versus plus 140.

• 43:35Joe Rogan?

  Somewhere around there. So it's not huge, not even two to one, not even one and a half to one. But enough where I was like, I think they're wrong. You know, so it's like, it fosters debate. You know, even if you're not gambling, and I didn't gamble on that fight, but I did, I was telling my friends. I got a long discussion with a good buddy of mine who's a, a real boxing connoisseur. He's like, Canelo's too big, he hits too hard. I'm like, that guy doesn't get hit much. Like, I don't think that's as big of a factor as we're thinking. I think it's a skill thing. They're not that different in size. I'm like, I don't think so. And so that odds thing. Is to me, exciting. Like it fosters debate. Like you get, you start talking about, you know, and if it's a game, you start talking about players. Like he chokes in the outfield, he does this, he does that, this guy, he's always stealing bases.

• 44:20Joe Rogan?

  I'm factoring that in and you know, the odds become a part of the discussion. But yeah, it is ultimately, the problem is, first of all, kids are addicted to apps as it is. They use them, they're always on their damn phone. And they'll go from TikTok to Instagram to X to, you know, they'll check this and then they'll check that. And they'll check their Snapchat and they'll check their gambling app. And then it's like you're just addicted to this goddamn phone. So something on your phone that's also addicting, it's like addiction on top of addiction. Cause you're already getting your little dopamine rush just by looking at your phone. But then if you're also getting a gambling rush on top of that. Yeah, we gotta educate people.

• 45:03Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 45:03Joe Rogan?

  But I think we gotta educate people on social media addiction, which I think a giant percentage of our population is completely addicted to social media.

• 45:11Speaker 03

  Including me. I spend a large amount of every day scrolling through TikTok for some reason.

• 45:17Joe Rogan?

  And what are you, what's your algorithm like? What kind of stuff are you getting?

• 45:25Speaker 03

  I'm getting a lot of dating apps at the moment, which is really embarrassing because I'm not looking on any, I'm not on any dating apps. So I'm not sure that the algorithm is fully truthful. I think there's certain amount of things you just get fed.

• 45:37Joe Rogan?

  Right. Especially like a dating app, because that's a promotion, you know, they're promoting that.

• 45:43Speaker 03

  Yeah, there's a lot, there seems to be a lot coming up, but that's the problem, isn't it? Because the way the algorithm shapes it, you know, pretty much everything that comes up on your phone, you have some form of interest in.

• 45:55Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 45:55Speaker 03

  So that keeps you looking at what you're looking at. Yeah, I've got to, um, probably got to dial it down a little bit, but I'll be in the bush in a minute. This has been such a crazy year, man, you know, so. You know, we finished Nuremberg last year and then I went on that big tour, which is when I was here, um, when I came to see you the first time. But this year, since between December and August, I made five movies.

• 46:20Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 46:21Speaker 03

  And I was on the set of The Sixth and so weary and I had no juice. I I still feel it a little bit, actually, man, you know, I've had a little bit of time off, but I've still had so many responsibilities. I kind of feel like I broke my brain or something in August and I'm still trying to recover and I won't really recover. Till I get home the next time, as I was saying to you before, because when I land at home now, I won't know when I'm flying out again. And that is such a relief because when you do know when you're flying out again, every day is just counting down. Counting down, you might have three weeks, but it doesn't feel like three weeks. Because you one hundred percent know when you're leaving again.

• 47:01Speaker 03

  But this time I'll get home and I'll have three months and I'll be in the bush and I'll be waking up with the birds and, you know. Hopefully, all of those things that I emptied out through the the earlier part of the year will will fill up again. Because I was on that set and that was the um, the set for the remake of Highlander with Henry Cavill. So I'm playing Ramirez, which was the Sean Connery character.

• 47:25Joe Rogan?

  Oh, wow.

• 47:25Speaker 03

  So I'm excited by it and really looking forward to it. But there I was, turning up to the gym to do my Katana Sword and, you know, going to these meetings and everything, but I was empty. I was absolutely empty and it was just to the point where I, you know, I texted my agent and I'd said, you know what? I maybe need to talk to these guys because I'm not sure if I I don't have any juice here. I don't know what I'm going to be bringing, you know, I'm sitting in these meetings and everybody's talking, but it's all just bouncing off my face, you know? I'm not really taking anything in. And that same night, I get a phone call around ten thirty and so unusual because I have everything turned off on my phone, it never rings. But for whatever reason, it did ring and it was the director saying, look, I'm so sorry to tell you that Henry's injured himself.

• 48:10Speaker 03

  He's he's ruptured his Achilles, so we're going to have to push the film. Now, I love Henry, I've known him for a long time, known him since he was a schoolboy.

• 48:18Joe Rogan?

  Oh, wow.

• 48:19Speaker 03

  And I'm like, I met him. At a place called Stowe School in England, I was doing a scene in a movie called Proof of Life. Talking to my son in the movie and in the background a rugby game's going on. And, you know, we're doing the scene and everything, but I've got my eye on the field and there's one guy on the field. Who is just displaying he's got a great brain for the game. And as it happens, we finish the scene and they break up the, the, what's going on behind us and that one kid. Is walking towards me and he's the kid that I've been watching. And he wants to have a chat, he introduces himself and, you know, uh.

• 49:00Speaker 03

  He's just asked me, how do you get into acting? And so we had this very, very brief conversation and we got swamped by these other kids. Couple of days later, I was doing a present for the kid from that school who'd played my son. It was a boy called Merlin Hanbury Tennyson, his name was. And so I was doing a thing for him and then I had some other things left over and I was like, what was that other kid's name? Oh, Henry. So I wrote on a photo of Gladiator of Maximus. Which was a movie that had not actually been released yet.

• 49:30Speaker 03

  To Henry, journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step, Russell.

• 49:35Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 49:36Speaker 03

  He kept that photograph with him. For wherever he lived or place to place and he kept his dream alive and burning. The next time I see Henry Cavill is in a gym in Illinois, the outskirts of Chicago. And I'm working on one side of the gym, he's working on the other. And I'm thinking to myself, well, I'm Superman's dad, I reckon that must be Superman over there. Kind of looks like it, you know? So we've worked in the gym a week or so more together before we talk, you know? And finally, one day he comes over, puts his hand out and we start talking. And I just, at one point, I went, do I know you?

• 50:19Speaker 03

  He goes, yes, sir, you do. And he reminded, and I went, Henry? That Henry is this Henry? It was crazy.

• 50:28Joe Rogan?

  That's wild.

• 50:29Speaker 03

  Absolutely wild, right? And so now we have this other situation where, you know, he's kind of in the position of being the Highlander and they asked him who he wanted to be Ramirez and he said, I've only got one option and you got to get him. And so, you know, that's fantastic. It's gonna be a lot of fun when we do eventually get around to make it.

• 50:52Joe Rogan?

  How cool must that be for him to have been a kid and met you and got you to sign that? This episode is brought to you by The Farmer's Dog. Here's a fun fact. Research shows that dogs who maintain a healthy weight can live up to two and a half years longer on average than dogs who are overweight. Isn't that wild and also kind of obvious at the same time? So why is feeding vague scoops of ultra-processed kibble still the status quo for most dog owners? Healthy alternatives exist and trust me, I know. I buy one, The Farmer's Dog. I use it for both my dogs. They love it. They eat it up quick. It smells good to them. It smells good to me. It's human-grade food. The Farmer's Dog makes fresh food for dogs and my dogs love it.

• 51:37Joe Rogan?

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• 52:22Joe Rogan?

  to fill some seasonal roles, fast. Maybe you need extra cashiers or stockers or Maybe something more unique like a lead elf or an expert gift wrapper or a Zamboni driver. Whoever you're looking for, whatever skills you need to power through the rest of the year. ZipRecruiter is one of the best places to start your search. Because you can try it for free at ziprecruiter.com/rogan. And because ZipRecruiter helps sort through thousands of resumes and applications. Showing you the most qualified and interesting ones first. There's even an option for candidates to explain why they want the job.

• 53:02Joe Rogan?

  Let ZipRecruiter find the right people for your roles, seasonal or otherwise. Try it for free today at ziprecruiter.com/rogan. That's ziprecruiter.com/rogan. Meet your match on ZipRecruiter. And then working with you when he's Superman.

• 53:23Speaker 03

  Superman.

• 53:26Joe Rogan?

  Oh my God, that's amazing. What a great story.

• 53:29Speaker 03

  And so now we've got, you know, we've got the the third stage of our our connection. And when we get to do it, it's it's gonna be great. But I know this sounds really weird because I love Henry and the last thing I want is for him to be in it. Under any pressure or injured or whatever, but it wasn't a prayer answered.

• 53:50Speaker 03

  And I'm talking to the director expressing that I'm so that's terrible, but I'm also shaking my girlfriend going.

• 53:57Speaker 03

  We get to go home, you know, it's as I said, it's been a big year. I have never done that many individual films in that space of time.

• 54:07Joe Rogan?

  What caused you to say yes to that kind of a schedule?

• 54:09Speaker 03

  Well, but that's not what you do because most of these are independent films. So for example, I agreed to do Nuremberg in 2019, but we don't shoot it till 2024.

• 54:20Joe Rogan?

  Oh, wow.

• 54:20Speaker 03

  Set up and collapsed three different times before we actually made it because it's, you know, it's a lot of variables in independent film. So a bunch of these things that I did, you know, I agreed to do two years ago and it never got together. And then suddenly they all just started landing one after the other. So everybody's got to start working like it's air traffic control. And I'm like literally having a few days between sets, flying from one place to the other. And now it's, you know, what I always describe it as is like going to a new school. Now you're going to meet, you know, hundreds of new people. And you know, all of the different things that you've got to answer in terms of your costume and your makeup and blah, blah, blah. Am I wearing a fake nose? Am I got scars?

• 55:04Speaker 03

  What am I doing this time? All of those things you've got to do very, very rapidly and and get onto the set. And they're not, that sort of string of movies was not, they're not easy. The first one was called The Beast in Me, which is an MMA movie. I think we talked about that briefly. Yes. It was gonna be a UFC thing, but we ended up doing a deal with One Championship. So it's set in Australia and Thailand. And it's doing some like little private screenings in Los Angeles at the moment and getting a lot of really positive reactions. The kid that's still, no, he's not a kid, but the lead role in that, Daniel McPherson, has

• 55:44Speaker 03

  done an extremely good job by the sounds of things. I'm also attached to that. I only play a very small role, but I rewrote it for them just before we started. And I've done a lot of writing in my career, but it always goes uncredited. But in this particular occasion, I think, I believe I'm gonna get my first actual writing credit. Oh, wow. That's cool. But I wrote the character that I play specifically to not be the character you think it's gonna be, to not be Burgess Meredith. You think this guy's gonna be, you know, the old coach who sort of like, you know, comes back out of retirement and everything. But I know enough people in the boxing world or, you know, to know that

• 56:27Speaker 03

  once an old bloke makes a decision about you being a shithead, he's not gonna change his mind. So I wanted to play that guy. So I went from that set to then, I think called Bear Country, where I play an Albanian money launderer.

• 56:46Speaker 03

  And that's got a great cast, Teresa Palmer, Luke Evans, Nina Dobrev, Aaron Paul, Danny Zavardo, and it's funny, it's really funny. That's with the same director that I did Unhinged with, a guy called Derek Port. And it's, I mean, it's goofy and dramatic, but it's just funny.

• 57:07Joe Rogan?

  When does that come out?

• 57:08Speaker 03

  I'm not sure when that comes out. That's also, I think they've got like six or seven different offers at the moment from different distribution companies, because everybody's digging it and they're looking at it going, that would be an hilarious movie to follow up Nuremberg.

• 57:21Joe Rogan?

  Well, that would be, yeah, because Nuremberg's dark.

• 57:24Speaker 03

  So then after that, I go back to Budapest and I make a thing with a young British director, Amos Sante, called Billion Dollar Spy, with a young English actor called Harry Lauty, who is the, he's the, he's the future of British cinema. He's a very intelligent classy actor. So, and that one I play a Russian, selling state secrets to the Americans, a Russian scientist. And then after I did Billion Dollar Spy, oh, I did, I went to Montreal and made a thing called Unabom, where I play a Harvard professor, the man who taught Ted

• 58:04Speaker 03

  Kaczynski at Harvard, who put him into this series of tests and things that he was doing. And some people say that he very, very much affected Kaczynski's brain.

• 58:19Joe Rogan?

  You know, he was a part of the Harvard LSD studies.

• 58:23Speaker 03

  The guy I play was.

• 58:24Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 58:25Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 58:25Joe Rogan?

  So that was, that was.

• 58:26Speaker 03

  Well, Kaczynski was sort of associated, he was there at the time that Leary also started working at Harvard. But the study that my character was doing is more based on sort of like intellectual confrontation.

• 58:40Speaker 03

  And like stripping people of their self-belief and stuff. So there are people who think that it was the character I plays. Intellectual aggression towards Kaczynski that turned Kaczynski the way he turned. So there's that. And then I just did a movie in Germany. It's set in Portland, but we shot it in Munich.

• 59:08Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 59:09Joe Rogan?

  How weird.

• 59:10Speaker 03

  With a guy called Patrick McKinley, who I've done other projects with before. But he doesn't doesn't always get the credit he should get. But he was he's the guy that cut the loudest voice.

• 59:22Speaker 03

  Which made it as dynamic as it was. And he also cut a movie called Poker Face for me. And we're working together on a music doco. But usually I work when I work with him is an editor. But this is him as a director, and that's with Ethan Hawke. Again, that's that's a smaller role in that one as well. But there was a very strong vibe on that set and Patrick's a great filmmaker. So I imagine that's going to be a good movie too. So if you're a film fan.

• 59:49Joe Rogan?

  That sounds like you're killing it.

• 59:51Speaker 03

  There's a few things to come out.

• 59:52Joe Rogan?

  That's very exciting. The comedy is very exciting because there's just not a lot of comedies anymore. It's it's it's hard to see, to find a really good comedy.

• 1:00:02Speaker 03

  Yeah. Yeah, and this is one of those ones where it's not it's not like a series of jokes. It's just certain types of characters put in certain situations. And then you see how that plays out. And Aaron Paul and Nina Dobrev are just hilarious. I can't even begin to explain what they do in the film because you'll just go, what the fuck are you talking about? That's just sounds so stupid. And it is stupid, but it's also very funny to experience.

• 1:00:31Joe Rogan?

  I can't wait to see it. So it just sounds like all those things just sort of came together.

• 1:00:37Joe Rogan?

  Coincidentally at the same time. And so you had to do them all back to back.

• 1:00:41Speaker 03

  Things that you might have agreed to years before or whatever. And it just so happened that they got their financing and that just went one after the other.

• 1:00:47Joe Rogan?

  Do you take do you do anything like IV vitamin drips or anything when you're on set?

• 1:00:52Speaker 03

  Um, I haven't really done that.

• 1:00:54Joe Rogan?

  Probably help you.

• 1:00:55Speaker 03

  Um, well, potentially, but the other, the other thing is, man, you just stay disciplined and you get to bed.

• 1:01:00Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that too.

• 1:01:01Speaker 03

  I'm actually going through a really weird time at the moment, but for the last month, doesn't matter where I am in the world. If I'm in Spain, if I'm in Australia, if I'm in America, I cannot sleep between midnight and five AM. It's just very odd, and I think it's related to the feeling that I was expressing before, that somewhere in August I broke my head. I'd just done too much.

• 1:01:23Joe Rogan?

  Too much.

• 1:01:23Speaker 03

  And I need to go home and I need to be in that rhythm because, you know, I call the place I have in the bush. You know, it's not its official name, but I call it the panacea. It will fix all ills, but you have to give over to its rhythm. You have to wake before the birds. You have to sort of put yourself in a situation where you're going deep into the bush. So you're getting that kind of oxygen. You just have to really give yourself over to it, you know, and, and spend your days just, you know, checking if the cows are okay, having a look, you know, if the new trough system is working or what. Just getting your sort of hands a little bit dirty and forgetting all the other stuff.

• 1:02:05Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:06Speaker 03

  And, um, you know, but we'll hopefully see me come charging back out next year.

• 1:02:12Joe Rogan?

  You'll be charging, but that sounds like a perfect balance to offset the charging.

• 1:02:16Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, that's.

• 1:02:17Joe Rogan?

  The recharge.

• 1:02:17Speaker 03

  I always like, I look back at my thirty year old self who made the decision to take the little bit of money that I'd earned at that point, thirty one, thirty two I was, and buy a hundred acres in the bush. Because somehow I knew I would need that place. So it's like, you know, I could have bought, you know, an apartment in the city, you know, but I didn't. I bought a hundred acres of basically blank bush, no fences, no, and the, the fact that it's been in my life, it's in January twentieth, nineteen ninety six. I paid for that first hundred acres.

• 1:02:55Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:02:55Speaker 03

  So that's, that's before LA Confidential, it was before I even shoot LA Confidential.

• 1:02:59Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:03:00Speaker 03

  So it was, I don't, I don't know where it came from, but I look at that thirty two year old and go, mate, well done.

• 1:03:09Joe Rogan?

  You gave yourself a battery.

• 1:03:11Speaker 03

  I gave myself an island.

• 1:03:13Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:13Speaker 03

  You know, I go through that gate and because you know what it's like, people don't just call you Joe. They call you Joe Rogan. Call me Russell Crowe, Russell Crowe, Russell Crowe. You know, so this, this brand name, this sort of stamp and that's all you hear, you know? Russell Crowe, Russell Crowe. And then I go beyond that gate and I'm no longer that. I'm a son, I'm a brother, I'm an uncle, I'm a dad, you know, all of those things, you know? I'm, I'm, I'm the boss of the operation of the farms and stuff and, and all that as well. But all of those things come into play and the whole brand thing drops away. And you've got to prove yourself on a way different level when you're at home.

• 1:03:50Joe Rogan?

  You've got to exist in a natural world.

• 1:03:51Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:03:52Joe Rogan?

  As opposed to in a world where you're the center of attention constantly. People at your beck and call, people are Mr. Crowe, Mr. Crowe. Yeah. It's not good for you. But it's also the amount of attention that you, time you have to spend when you're on that many sets in a row. Five movies in a row, like, I thought a lot of people are probably like, oh, boo hoo. You had to be in five movies, boo hoo.

• 1:04:18Speaker 03

  But that's, and that's the brilliant thing.

• 1:04:20Joe Rogan?

  Poor famous Russell Crowe.

• 1:04:22Speaker 03

  The big gap between people who are not in the business is understanding of what it really takes.

• 1:04:28Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:04:28Speaker 03

  And, you know, the realities that, that you deal with. And look, you know, I'm the last person, I'm not whinging about the job at all, but I am just pointing out that I went a little bit too hard and I burnt my brain. I need a bit of a break, you know?

• 1:04:42Joe Rogan?

  Well, if Nuremberg is an indication or if it's an example of what you did, the, the, if it's on par with the rest of them, it's going to be an awesome run because Nuremberg is great. It really is. It's, it's very disturbing and it's a, is a, just to see the, that footage, the, the footage in the trial was just...

• 1:05:06Joe Rogan?

  People should see that, you know? And the fact that it's never been released before, you know, that, just to cement into our heads. You know, that's the thing, it's like, that war was one of the first wars where we got regular footage. You know, I mean, if you think about people going into World War One, they're going blind. They have no idea what they expect, what they're going to see. And then by the time Vietnam comes and now it's on television and...

• 1:05:34Joe Rogan?

  That seeing horrific things at least cements into your head like this is where this all could go. This is where this all can go.

• 1:05:43Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, just think about that because, you know, in my lifetime.

• 1:05:48Speaker 03

  You know, when I was a little boy and I'm watching the news at night with my parents, this Vietnam footage.

• 1:05:56Speaker 03

  You know, I see the ANZAC Day, which is Australia, Australian, New Zealand version of Memorial Day. I see those marches every year, the old soldiers getting together.

• 1:06:07Speaker 03

  That history is so fresh. I'm surrounded by older people who fought in the war in World War One, you know? And then there's another generation of guys who still appear to be young and they fought in World War Two. And now I'm watching Australia at war because we've been through Korea and now Australia is at war in Vietnam. I'm seeing that on the nightly news. So at the age of six, seven, eight, I believe I'm going to be a soldier.

• 1:06:33Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 1:06:33Speaker 03

  And everybody at school believes they're going to be a soldier because that's what we do, you know? Because the parents' generation are connected to the Second World War. Our grandparents' generation is connected to the First World War. And here it is, we've now got this new war.

• 1:06:48Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:06:49Speaker 03

  So it was very definitely part of the cultural upbringing. I mean, I was in army cadets in high school. So, you know, that was a couple of days a week. You dress up in an army uniform and you go to school instead of in your school uniform in jungle greens, you know?

• 1:07:07Joe Rogan?

  Just get you ready.

• 1:07:08Speaker 03

  Just get you ready, man.

• 1:07:10Joe Rogan?

  Fuck.

• 1:07:10Speaker 03

  They're putting SLRs in the hands, which is like, it's not an unusual thing for this country. But definitely is for Australia. Put a self-loading rifle in the hands of a 13-year-old and teach him how to use it. So.

• 1:07:26Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:07:29Joe Rogan?

  Jesus. Um, that was one of the things about the Iraq war too, the where they stopped showing people coffins. They're preventing photographers from taking photographs of coffins.

• 1:07:42Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:07:42Joe Rogan?

  Flag draped coffins, like, that's crazy.

• 1:07:44Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 1:07:45Joe Rogan?

  That, that should not be legal. You shouldn't be able to prevent someone from documenting history. Is that's what that is, and that's the consequences of what's going on. You're seeing American people coming home in boxes.

• 1:07:55Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:07:55Joe Rogan?

  And you're not even allowed to take photographs of it.

• 1:07:58Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:07:58Joe Rogan?

  Kind of crazy.

• 1:07:59Speaker 03

  Yeah. Well, this is the thing where, you know, ANZAC Day that I talked about, it's April twenty fifth. ANZAC stands for Australian New Zealand Army Corps. Because both the First World War and the Second World War, World War Australia and New Zealand combined, they're armed forces.

• 1:08:15Speaker 03

  Um, and then a lot of places fought alongside each other. But, you know, we had that day as a memorial day, as, you know, you have in this culture as well. But we tend to forget that we have that day as a reminder that we should never do this again. That's what it's there for, you know, to respect the passing of the, these, you know, young people who died in battle. But to also remind ourselves of how pointless that whole thing was. How pointless the First World War was, how pointless the Second World War, ultimately, it's just, it's just death.

• 1:08:54Speaker 03

  And the people that started the war, the people who benefit from the war are not the ones generally standing at the graveside mourning their dead. Because they will protect themselves. Their children don't have to go to war. Their children are not going to get conscripted. So it's like, you know, every time this stuff comes up and, and we now have almost constantly the words of war being spoken as if it's just sort of an offhand thing. That we can, we should attack these people, invade these people. It's like, this goes absolutely nowhere good. And we were talking earlier about the technology we can hold in our hands.

• 1:09:34Speaker 03

  We get out our phones, we can explore the entire world. There's no piece of knowledge which is held back from us. We can get it through this device we carry in our hands. So here we are.

• 1:09:48Speaker 03

  All of these millennia later, as a species, we have that level of technology available to us, but we still think that war is some form of solution. It just blows my mind.

• 1:10:03Joe Rogan?

  It's hard to imagine, if you were living in the past, if you could come up with the circumstances that we live under today, like you just described, a device in your pocket that provides you with all the information you could ever want. We would say, oh, well, that will be the solution to most of what ails us.

• 1:10:21Speaker 03

  You'd think, once we have that available.

• 1:10:24Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it'll all sort itself out.

• 1:10:26Speaker 03

  We'll see each other clearly and understand, you know, celebrate our differences, that there's more that connects us than divides us, all of those things.

• 1:10:34Joe Rogan?

  I don't think they ever anticipated social media and the divisive nature of that, because I think it accelerates.

• 1:10:41Speaker 03

  But it's only divisive because we let people pervert it.

• 1:10:46Joe Rogan?

  Right, with an algorithm.

• 1:10:47Speaker 03

  We just let people actually take something. I remember when I started on Twitter, I thought it was the stupidest thing I've ever heard of. But when I started, which was about 2009, 2010,

• 1:10:59Speaker 03

  and suddenly, from a couple of decades of having who I was described by others and pushed across to people, this breath of fresh air, where I could just express myself and people would know exactly what my real opinion on something was and how I felt about something. It was fantastic. It didn't last very long, though. People were like, oh, we've got a whole lot of truth going on here. We've got to shut that shit down. You know, as soon as individuals started using their power to say, you know what? I had an experience with this company or that company, and it wasn't very good. And those companies were like, man, we didn't spend millions of dollars a year on advertising just for this asshole to tell the truth about how shit we are.

• 1:11:45Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:46Speaker 03

  So they had to turn it around somehow. So that's when you start, you know, look, quite frankly, if you run bots and stuff like that, you should be put in prison.

• 1:11:56Speaker 03

  Forget about it, man. That's not the way it should be.

• 1:11:58Joe Rogan?

  No, it shouldn't be that way.

• 1:11:59Speaker 03

  You shouldn't be perverting people's understanding of something.

• 1:12:03Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 1:12:03Speaker 03

  Because it benefits you.

• 1:12:04Joe Rogan?

  Yes, that's a great way to put it. Yeah, that should be illegal. It's kind of amazing that there's no laws, because it's essentially, I mean, you could propagate through bots a complete and total lie, and it catches traction, makes its way through, and there's zero consequences.

• 1:12:20Speaker 03

  And then people get upset about it, and they're fighting over the family dinner table based on pure misinformation.

• 1:12:27Joe Rogan?

  And I think a lot of it, you know, we can't trace who's doing it. That's where it gets really weird.

• 1:12:35Speaker 03

  Yeah, but why?

• 1:12:36Joe Rogan?

  Well.

• 1:12:37Speaker 03

  I don't get that.

• 1:12:37Joe Rogan?

  It's complicated, right? Like, you can, you can hide your IP, you can do it through a virtual private network, so they don't know what country you're in, and you do it with AI. Like, they busted China was using ChatGPT to run a bunch of accounts. I don't know how many accounts, but a huge amount of accounts. And they were, all sorts of stuff that are, that people are fighting about in America, like immigration, closing down USAID, those kind of things.

• 1:13:08Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:13:08Joe Rogan?

  And they were just involved with these chatbots that they were running, and these things would argue specific points and get everybody inflamed, and just start wars, and call everybody fucking retards.

• 1:13:22Speaker 03

  There was a moment, you know, a little while ago, where there just seemed to be, all social media was just flooded with violent images, flooded with people fighting, you know, people getting, you know, knocked out by a king hit in a bar or whatever. And it was like, where is this coming from? It's just.

• 1:13:41Joe Rogan?

  Instagram is loaded with it. I see more violence on Instagram, more accidents, more people falling off balconies, more people climbing trees and falling. It's like all over Instagram. And I don't know if they can stop it. I don't know if they can even recognize what these things are until somebody reports.

• 1:14:00Speaker 03

  I know, I know it sort of speaks to a sort of a low level of intellect, but, you know, I do like the occasional falling down a hole.

• 1:14:13Joe Rogan?

  Well, there's a reason why it's out there. It's because a lot of people agree with you. It's a, it's, I mean, I've watched a lot of horrific accidents. I don't know why, you know, I don't want to watch anybody get run over by a truck.

• 1:14:26Speaker 03

  Yeah, I, for me, that's not a thing. It's like, it's like the innocent sort of like pie in the face kind of thing is, is what amuses me. But if somebody really gets hurt, it's not, it doesn't.

• 1:14:38Joe Rogan?

  Well, also, I think very much desensitizes people.

• 1:14:41Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:14:42Joe Rogan?

  Which is a problem already.

• 1:14:44Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:14:44Joe Rogan?

  You know, we're already desensitized from violent video games and violent films. And, and then now you're seeing like real violence and real like horrific dismembering accidents all day long.

• 1:14:56Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:14:57Joe Rogan?

  And you're 13, you know, that's, that's the thing.

• 1:14:59Speaker 03

  That, that is the thing is we can discuss it as adults and what sort of like, what we can deal with and what we can rationalize. But the same thing I was talking about, the gambling. My kids don't know, or didn't know that there was a negative to that. They, they see it.

• 1:15:14Joe Rogan?

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• 1:16:40Joe Rogan?

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• 1:16:53Speaker 03

  You know, all the time, so they think it's normal.

• 1:16:56Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, no, that makes sense. That makes sense. And, you know, think like, how old do you have to be to sign up for those sites? And is it possible to spoof that?

• 1:17:05Speaker 03

  Of course.

• 1:17:06Joe Rogan?

  It seems like you could probably, if you were a wizard, at 14.

• 1:17:09Speaker 03

  What's the security?

• 1:17:10Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:11Speaker 03

  Are you over 18? Press here.

• 1:17:13Joe Rogan?

  Like, what is it?

• 1:17:14Speaker 03

  It doesn't take a lot.

• 1:17:15Joe Rogan?

  They make you enter in your driver's license? What do they do?

• 1:17:19Speaker 03

  Now, did you see that thing from TikTok that I sent you with Jimmy?

• 1:17:22Joe Rogan?

  I don't have TikTok.

• 1:17:23Speaker 03

  Oh, you don't?

• 1:17:24Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 1:17:24Speaker 03

  Oh, so I sent it to you and you can't watch it?

• 1:17:26Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I can't watch it.

• 1:17:27Speaker 03

  All right.

• 1:17:27Joe Rogan?

  What was it about?

• 1:17:28Speaker 03

  It was just him on stage talking about a company that he and I and Ed Sheeran got involved in. I was in, I was shooting The Pope's Exorcist in Ireland, right? And I got told this story about this lady, Laura Bonner, whose grandfather was an Irish potato farmer, right? And wondering what he should do with his leftover potatoes, you know, the unsightly shaped ones that nobody wants in a supermarket. And he came up with the idea of making this Irish sort of moonshine called perchene. So every Friday, his relatives and his friends and everything would rock around to Phil's house

• 1:18:13Speaker 03

  and they'd bring their old medicine bottles and whatever and just fill up from the still. So they had a weekend. And when she was a little girl, she would see this party being created every Friday in, you know, Ireland. And so they're singing songs and they're enjoying each other's company and laughing uproariously and all that. And she said, one day I'm going to legitimize what granddad does for fun and make it into a business. So around about her mid twenties or something, she was a lawyer. She got involved in this big deal. It went well for her. So she was sort of like faced with a crossroads. Okay, now I've got money to finance my idea or I can continue in the job that I'm in. And so she decided to back herself.

• 1:18:57Speaker 03

  She comes from a little town in the north of Ireland that is called Muff. It's actual town, it's across the river from Derry. And she formed a company called the Muff Liquor Company. And that amused me. I called Jimmy Carr and said, does this amuse you? It actually does. So then I called Ed Sheeran and I said, does this amuse you? And he goes, it does. So we formed a company called the Muff Liquor Men. And we bought a big slice of of the company. It's now, I think it's in about forty states here in America now.

• 1:19:37Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that's awesome.

• 1:19:37Speaker 03

  Pretty sure you can get it in Texas.

• 1:19:39Joe Rogan?

  We're a sucker for a good name.

• 1:19:40Speaker 03

  Yeah, so I bought you a dozen whiskey.

• 1:19:45Joe Rogan?

  Oh, boy.

• 1:19:45Speaker 03

  A dozen potato based gin.

• 1:19:48Joe Rogan?

  Oh, boy.

• 1:19:49Speaker 03

  And a dozen potato based vodka.

• 1:19:51Joe Rogan?

  Oh, boy.

• 1:19:53Speaker 03

  There it is. With the bottle sort of shaped like an old medicine bottle.

• 1:19:57Joe Rogan?

  It looks great. That's an awesome bottle.

• 1:19:59Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's great to hold, actually. And that whiskey is what I call like a cowboy whiskey.

• 1:20:05Joe Rogan?

  Ah, it's peat smoked.

• 1:20:06Speaker 03

  Yeah, but it's very light.

• 1:20:08Joe Rogan?

  I like that.

• 1:20:08Speaker 03

  It's very light. You'll you'll see when you have it. It's like, that's not the sort of whiskey where everybody ends up crying in a corner, remembering the things that they did wrong in their lives. It's the sort of whiskey that'll keep you laughing all night, you know? So that's why I call it a cowboy whiskey, because you can sit with it with your mates all night and have a have a laugh.

• 1:20:25Joe Rogan?

  What do you think is more addictive, alcohol or gambling?

• 1:20:29Speaker 03

  Hmm, well, the problem that we have with alcohol is what's, you know, becoming the burgeoning problem with gambling is that we just accept it.

• 1:20:38Joe Rogan?

  It's everywhere.

• 1:20:38Speaker 03

  Accept it completely as the thing that you do, and as long as you're a certain age, you can do it. We'd never look at the damage that it causes. Now, I'm a big proponent of having a drink, you know, it's my cultural heritage, and as a working class man, it's my goddamn right, Joe.

• 1:20:57Joe Rogan?

  And you enjoy it.

• 1:20:58Speaker 03

  I do, I do. But as you get older, you know, there's certain things that you start to learn about your capacities and stuff when you're a younger fellow. And now that I'm an older guy, and I know that, you know, one night a week, if I'm having fun, is plenty. There's plenty, you know, and I try to cut out the interstitial stuff, you know, I might, if I decide I'm gonna have a glass of wine with dinner, then it's gonna be a really nice wine, and it's gonna be an occasion. And I just, I try not to have the casual drinks now, just have a, you know, a drink for the sake of it, you know.

• 1:21:36Joe Rogan?

  Those add up, yeah. Yeah, there's, there's, there's definitely a great social quality to drinking. There's, there's a thing to it that I enjoy. I always enjoyed.

• 1:21:45Speaker 03

  And bonding, you know, you never really find out about your mates until you've had them on the piss and you see who they really are.

• 1:21:52Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, some people, yeah. Yeah. Alcohol is weird because it's the only drug that they offer you when you sit down for dinner.

• 1:22:01Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:22:01Joe Rogan?

  It's the, we've agreed, this drug goes really well with a good steak.

• 1:22:06Speaker 03

  That everybody can have, that this drug is fully available. And, and like I said, we never count the social cost, we don't count, you know, I mean, this is, this would be true for pretty much, you know, a lot of countries that have a focus on sport. But, you know. Three to five of the worst nights of any given year in Australia in terms of domestic violence are one hundred percent connected to a sporting event.

• 1:22:33Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 1:22:33Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:22:34Joe Rogan?

  So sporting event connected to alcohol.

• 1:22:36Speaker 03

  Mm hmm.

• 1:22:36Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:37Speaker 03

  And then that drives the thing that, you know, brings terror to wives and children. So it's, you know, it's the same thing with with all of this stuff, you know, like, you know, we always talk about that, you know, everything in moderation kind of thing.

• 1:22:49Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:50Speaker 03

  But, you know, we always have to remember that we got to move at the pace of the slowest member of our community.

• 1:22:57Joe Rogan?

  That's a great way to put it because that's the real issue, right? It's not, well, I can handle it, so everybody else can too. That's not it. It's like, why can some people handle it? And what could have been done? Like, if you just in school, you're gonna have to accept that some kids are gonna try marijuana, some kids are gonna try acid, some kids are gonna try alcohol, they're gonna, most kids are gonna try alcohol. Like, why don't we have education on the proper way to use these things where you don't get in trouble? You know, like, at least, most people, I would I would imagine most kids are not gonna listen anyway, but if more will than would if you didn't talk about it at all.

• 1:23:39Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:23:39Joe Rogan?

  If you don't talk about it at all, there's no information out there. At least they can talk.

• 1:23:43Speaker 03

  This should be an ongoing process of education.

• 1:23:45Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:46Speaker 03

  And not just education through failure, you know?

• 1:23:49Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:23:49Speaker 03

  Not just let me talk to you about it now that you've crashed your car into a tree.

• 1:23:53Joe Rogan?

  Or now that one of your friends has done that, you know, there's a lot of that. You see your friends doing something horrible.

• 1:23:58Speaker 03

  See, I'm I'm like you, I'm open to all of this sort of stuff being available and and freedom of choice being a paramount. But the responsibility to educate has got to start at a young age.

• 1:24:10Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I think so, especially if you're if you're using things that are on apps. You know, apps are just, young people are so accustomed to using apps. And most apps are giving you that same jolt, that same dopamine rush.

• 1:24:27Joe Rogan?

  You know, it's just, I think you should be able to do whatever you wanna do, but you should know what you're doing. And that's where the problem is. You kinda have to figure out what you're doing from your knucklehead friends.

• 1:24:37Speaker 03

  Yeah, I was gonna suggest that we had a whiskey, but I know that's gonna ruin my day if I do. Cause I'll get nothing else done.

• 1:24:46Speaker 03

  Some people have like such a great time drinking during the day. It's just doesn't suit me, man.

• 1:24:52Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:52Speaker 03

  You know? If I ever drink at lunch, either I'm asleep by five o'clock, right? Or I'm raging at five AM. So it's like I've learned over time, don't drink during the day.

• 1:25:09Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I stopped drinking entirely for about seven months, something like that. And then I decided to occasionally have a drink. So I'll have like a glass of wine at dinner or a margarita, I'm out with my wife. But that's it. I stopped there. I don't drink drink anymore. Like, let's go get drinks. I haven't done that in a long time. And the reason why is because I just felt like shit, because I was just doing it too many nights a week. And then my workouts would suffer in the morning. And I'm like, why am I doing this? I do everything so healthy and this is one stupid thing that I do that, let me just try not doing it and see if I miss it.

• 1:25:43Speaker 03

  Did you also notice as you got a little older that the hangovers, they don't go away after a couple of hours?

• 1:25:49Joe Rogan?

  Sure. It's also one of the most important things in my life is energy. Like, how much energy do I have to do things? Like, it's not just about doing things. It's about doing them with focus and enthusiasm. And when you don't have energy, it's very difficult to muster up that enthusiasm.

• 1:26:06Speaker 03

  Well, I hate that feeling that the follow, that, you know, I've had a great time the night before.

• 1:26:10Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:11Speaker 03

  But the following day, nothing gets done.

• 1:26:13Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:26:14Speaker 03

  Because I had fun the night before.

• 1:26:15Joe Rogan?

  You're foggy.

• 1:26:16Speaker 03

  I just, yeah, I just feel that, you know, such a. A waste.

• 1:26:21Joe Rogan?

  It is.

• 1:26:21Speaker 03

  We've only got X amount of days, right?

• 1:26:23Joe Rogan?

  But just managing the human mind and managing like what to do and what not to do and when to do it. It's such an important part of being an adult. And it's one of the things that's just not explained to kids. That's it's weird.

• 1:26:39Speaker 03

  I love that old Bill Hicks routine where he asked the question, you know, the last time you're in a social situation, uh, it would be a private party, a concert, a sporting event. And people started fighting. Were they stoned or were they drunk?

• 1:26:56Joe Rogan?

  Right. Yeah.

• 1:26:58Speaker 03

  It's like, yeah, I don't get why people can be so aggressively negative towards marijuana. Yet, you know, half a dozen dozen drinks for them socially is a, of course. You know, it's easy. It's like these two things, you know, are very different outcomes.

• 1:27:22Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:22Speaker 03

  You're not gonna have the, you know, people aren't gonna be attacking the the base camp when they're all stoned. They may well have a go at it when they're on the piss.

• 1:27:33Joe Rogan?

  Well, all that's because of propaganda from the 1930s. That's all that is down to Harry Anslinger and William Randolph Hearst. They they did that.

• 1:27:42Speaker 03

  But you know, it also connects to the formation of the United Nations.

• 1:27:46Joe Rogan?

  Does it?

• 1:27:47Speaker 03

  Hmm. Um, you take Thailand for example, the country that's had hundreds of years of cultural marijuana use. But in order to join the United Nations, they had to accept an American attitude towards drug laws. Uh, just recently, they've taken those drug laws away. Um, and now they're in a bit of panic because they didn't plan it very well. Because like, you know, reality. Break is, I think, you know, California did it through Arnold Schwarzenegger properly, knowing exactly how you're going to tax and where the money's going to when you do tax for the consumption. And so I think, you know, a hundred and forty or something or more shops sprung up overnight in Bangkok.

• 1:28:30Speaker 03

  And they're like, oh gee, that was, that went quicker than we thought it was going to go. But I, I think it's actually great for Thailand. It's a, you know, a, a drug that particularly suits the groove of that country, you know?

• 1:28:42Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, for sure.

• 1:28:44Speaker 03

  The food is so incredibly tasty and the beaches and the sunshine and, you know, and the heat and, you know? So, uh, yeah, it's sort of, but that's what I was told. I was told that it comes down to a decision that they had to make in order to join a global community.

• 1:29:03Joe Rogan?

  That makes sense. That makes sense. The United States has pushed that on everybody else. In Texas, there's a lot of push from the alcohol lobby to try to make marijuana even more illegal.

• 1:29:15Speaker 03

  Yeah, because people don't necessarily have to drink that much.

• 1:29:17Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's, that's what they're worried about. They're worried about people talking about alcohol. It's, it's a stupid, I mean, the fact that it, it works is crazy that people are still with like zero deaths ever, that they're still pushing.

• 1:29:30Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:29:31Joe Rogan?

  You know, to take this one drug away when you've got one drug that everybody uses is very strange. But it all really goes back to the 1930s.

• 1:29:39Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:29:40Joe Rogan?

  You know, and it was really just about the commodity of hemp more than it really was even about the drug.

• 1:29:46Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:29:46Joe Rogan?

  You know the history of that?

• 1:29:48Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, I know a bit about the making of rope from hemp.

• 1:29:51Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:52Speaker 03

  Because of master and commander and spending a lot of time on tall sailing ships.

• 1:29:55Joe Rogan?

  The whole thing was about an invention and there was a new, new invention called the decorticator and it allowed them to effectively process hemp fire, hemp fiber with a machine.

• 1:30:04Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:30:05Joe Rogan?

  Because before that, it was very time intensive, very labor intensive to break it down because it's a very, very strong fiber. So then Popular Science Magazine has it on the cover, hemp, the new billion dollar crop because of this machine.

• 1:30:18Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:30:19Joe Rogan?

  And so then William Randolph Hearst. Who also owned, owned Hearst Publications, he also owned paper mills.

• 1:30:25Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:30:25Joe Rogan?

  So, paper mills, and he owned forests where he'd make paper out of the forests. All of a sudden, there's this competing commodity where they're gonna use hemp for paper. It's a far superior paper.

• 1:30:36Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:30:36Joe Rogan?

  Hemp is gonna, it's way quicker to grow, you can grow entire fields of it in a year, you got a whole new crop. Like, it's not like trees that take years and years to grow before you can chop them down and make paper out of them. And so, then they started printing these stories about Mexicans and blacks that are raping white women because they're on this new drug called marijuana.

• 1:30:57Speaker 03

  Right, the jazz cigarette.

• 1:30:58Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and so marijuana, they, was really the term for a wild Mexican tobacco. It was, didn't even apply to cannabis, so they, they made a new name for it, and they attached this new name. And they got Congress to ban it, and before, they didn't even understand it was hemp. Like, most people didn't know what was going on, they thought there was this new drug that was like running through the world. And they just pulled the wool over everybody's eyes.

• 1:31:22Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:31:22Joe Rogan?

  And they did it because of a commodity, and then they made Reefer Madness and all those crazy movies, and everybody's like, oh my goodness, if you smoke Reefer, you're gonna die, you're gonna jump out of buildings. And meanwhile, people had been smoking it for thousands of years, it was like, pretty amazing way of manipulating public perception and using propaganda. And, you know, William Randolph Hearst, obviously the subject of the movie Rosebud, I mean, he was a real piece of shit.

• 1:31:46Speaker 03

  Citizen Kane, yeah.

• 1:31:47Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah, excuse me, Citizen Kane. Um, he was a real piece of shit, he was a real bad guy.

• 1:31:53Speaker 03

  You know, according to folkloric tales, he did everything he could to prevent Orson Welles from becoming the filmmaker that he should have become.

• 1:32:02Joe Rogan?

  Right, after he made that film, yeah, and it seems like he was effective with it, cause, you know, Citizen Kane was so good. And then, years later, he's doing wine commercials.

• 1:32:11Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:32:12Joe Rogan?

  For money, you know?

• 1:32:13Speaker 03

  There's a funny thing, it's like a recording where he's trying to do a voiceover for Norwegian salmon or something. He's getting more and more pissed off with the young producer who's trying to get him to.

• 1:32:26Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:26Speaker 03

  To read it in a certain way.

• 1:32:28Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's kinda fucked, man, cause the guy was so brilliant.

• 1:32:30Speaker 03

  Have you seen those little footage bits of the, um, um...

• 1:32:35Speaker 03

  Who's the tilting at windmills fellow, Don Quixote? Yeah, he went to Mexico or somewhere and he sort of started shooting little bits and pieces for potentially a Don Quixote movie. But it's just madness. It's like, there's nothing in that that could actually be in a film.

• 1:32:53Joe Rogan?

  He just had gone crazy by then?

• 1:32:55Speaker 03

  Yeah, he's a bloke, we get a bloke with a donkey, we'll have him walking over there, we'll shoot that, you know, it's like, but it's like, there's nothing cohesive in it that you could make a movie from.

• 1:33:04Joe Rogan?

  I wonder if that's just from the pressure of essentially being like one of the first guys to ever get cancelled. He just probably lost his mind.

• 1:33:11Speaker 03

  Potentially, right?

• 1:33:13Joe Rogan?

  Absolutely.

• 1:33:14Speaker 03

  Because you would think that Citizen Kane is your passport to a lifetime of being financed for whatever idea you want to put onto film.

• 1:33:22Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean, it's to this day a classic film that people talk about. And then also, you're the same guy that did The War of Worlds. You read that on the radio and freaked half the country out.

• 1:33:35Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:33:36Joe Rogan?

  The same guy. And so, I mean, he was a wonderkin, right? He was this guy that like, everybody thought was like a once in a lifetime talent and he snuffed out.

• 1:33:45Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:33:46Joe Rogan?

  And back then, you have to consider, if you're William Randolph Hearst, you have Hearst Publications, you're essentially in control of whatever narrative you want to push forth and no one's going to get in your way. So all you would have to do is make some phone calls and that guy, fuck him, he doesn't work again.

• 1:34:03Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:34:04Joe Rogan?

  Crazy.

• 1:34:05Speaker 03

  A little bit, little bit. We've got way too much power in the hands of media moguls.

• 1:34:11Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:12Speaker 03

  And as we go on, that reduction of opinion just keeps happening, you know? One company swallows another, swallows another. And I think we're in a situation now in America, right, when, you know, 20 years ago, there was two dozen major media companies, or 30 years ago, and now it's three.

• 1:34:31Joe Rogan?

  I know.

• 1:34:32Speaker 03

  And just like with the share market and the biggest companies in the world, they end up owning each other.

• 1:34:40Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:40Speaker 03

  So it's not three big companies. It's really just one with three different names.

• 1:34:45Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and they decide what the news is. It's nuts, but that's the one beautiful thing about today is that independent media takes up the slack and often gets more views than main, you know, air quote mainstream corporate media. And so now corporate media is forced to report on things eventually. Like the New York Times is forced to report on certain things that are inconvenient eventually. Where they would have just liked to have ignored it. But it gets so big in the zeitgeist that it has to become something that's discussed. And that's that's fascinating because it's like dragging them into the reality that the internet lives in, which is a reality of a free exchange of information.

• 1:35:26Speaker 03

  The whole, whole horizon of television is just so dramatically different now.

• 1:35:34Joe Rogan?

  So different.

• 1:35:34Speaker 03

  You know, I get to a hotel and I'll scroll through 160 available channels. There's nothing I'm interested in watching.

• 1:35:43Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:35:44Speaker 03

  It's like, how is that even possible?

• 1:35:47Joe Rogan?

  It's also watching something that's already going, like it starts at seven. Why? Why doesn't it start whenever I sit down?

• 1:35:54Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:35:54Joe Rogan?

  This is stupid. Like you have an old model. This model's dumb.

• 1:35:58Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:35:58Joe Rogan?

  It's like radio versus podcasts, the same kind of thing. It's like no one wants to have to be listening, sitting in their car, waiting for you to finish a sentence. They want to hit pause, go do whatever the fuck they're doing, come back and play again.

• 1:36:11Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:36:11Joe Rogan?

  This is a dumb way you're doing things. You're doing things in on eight P M. It's Mikey and the Boys.

• 1:36:17Speaker 03

  And see, I never had that life, you know, the last time I remember that being a thing is maybe in high school. Right. Where my mom and dad, well, my mom particularly would like to watch Dallas.

• 1:36:29Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:36:29Speaker 03

  So we would all get together and watch Dallas at eight o'clock or whatever on a Tuesday.

• 1:36:35Joe Rogan?

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• 1:37:20Joe Rogan?

  Chime is a fintech, not a bank. Banking services and Chime card provided by Chime's bank partners. Terms and limits apply. Go to chime.com/disclosures for more details. This episode is brought to you by The Farmer's Dog. Here's a fun fact. Research shows that dogs who maintain a healthy weight can live up to two and a half years longer on average than dogs who are overweight. Isn't that wild and also kind of obvious at the same time? So why is feeding vague scoops of ultra-processed kibble still the status quo for most dog owners? Healthy alternatives exist, and trust me, I know. I buy one, The Farmer's Dog. I use it for both my dogs. They love it.

• 1:38:04Joe Rogan?

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• 1:38:46Joe Rogan?

  Just go to thefarmersdog.com/rogan. This offer is for new customers only.

• 1:38:52Speaker 03

  And that just doesn't...

• 1:38:56Speaker 03

  Just hasn't happened in my life at all anymore.

• 1:38:58Joe Rogan?

  The last time it happened, I think for me, was The Sopranos on HBO.

• 1:39:02Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:39:03Joe Rogan?

  Cause it was on, I believe it was on Sunday nights.

• 1:39:05Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:39:05Joe Rogan?

  And everybody knew what time it was on and you'd go home and I had a TiVo back then, you remember those?

• 1:39:11Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:39:11Joe Rogan?

  Where you could record shows and go back and watch them later and pause them and stuff like that. And it was like revolutionary before streaming. Oh my God, you could record shows and watch them whenever you want.

• 1:39:21Speaker 03

  Embarrassingly, I've only ever seen maybe four or five Sopranos episodes.

• 1:39:26Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 1:39:27Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:39:27Joe Rogan?

  Oh, God.

• 1:39:28Speaker 03

  And every time I watch it, I go, I cannot believe that I didn't get overtaken by this at the time. Because Gandolfini was a mate. He was a mate. I met him like early nineties or, uh, yeah, early nineties in, in New York. He, him and a friend of mine called Lenny Lofton used to, uh, rent a place together on Forty Fourth and Ninth and Hell's Kitchen. And, you know, this is like a, an apartment on the, maybe the fourth floor of a building. And there were like a couple of windows that didn't even have glass in. They had like plastic sheets and a blanket nailed up against the window. And that's, that's what, you know, the situation that Gandolfini was in when I first met him.

• 1:40:07Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:40:08Speaker 03

  A few years later, he was obviously very successful. But my youngest son, Tennyson,

• 1:40:14Speaker 03

  is like a Sopranos expert. Like you, you can say a line to him and he'll know what episode, what season and who said that.

• 1:40:23Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:40:24Speaker 03

  It's like, he's so into it. And, you know, when, when I have started watching him very recently, actually, uh, some ducks landed on a pool, uh, on the farm. So I took a photo. And there was like thousands of comments, whatever it was, straight away going, ah, it's like Tony Soprano. I had no idea what people were talking about. I had to discuss it with my son. He goes, oh, yes, this sequence. So I've watched that sequence with the ducks. Uh, yeah. But Gandolfini, man, what a great actor he was.

• 1:40:50Joe Rogan?

  Ah, he was so good on that show. He was so, he was, it was the first guy who was essentially the hero of the show, who was a murderer. A murderer, a terrible person, a mob boss, and you liked him.

• 1:41:07Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:41:08Joe Rogan?

  It was insane. Like the, the fact that he could pull, that he had the depth to pull off that, where he's doing horrible things to people and you're rooting for him.

• 1:41:17Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:41:17Joe Rogan?

  You're rooting for him. You're not hoping he gets shot, you want Tony to live.

• 1:41:22Speaker 03

  Who's that guy that that you have on here every now and then, Joey Diaz?

• 1:41:26Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:41:26Speaker 03

  Yeah, he's a funny guy.

• 1:41:27Joe Rogan?

  Oh, he's the funniest guy that's ever lived.

• 1:41:29Speaker 03

  I heard him tell that story one time about, uh, the same week that Cinderella, Cinderella Man came out, I, I went to the premiere of Longest Yard. Uh, cause you know, Chris Rock was in that and stuff, and there's a few people in that cast who, uh, I really like. And so I went to the, the movie and, um, I just remember him telling a story about the lights come up and he didn't realize he was sitting next to me or whatever.

• 1:41:55Speaker 03

  I think it'd be a very dangerous room for me and Joey Diaz to be in. I think we'd be having.

• 1:41:59Joe Rogan?

  You guys would have a good time.

• 1:42:00Speaker 03

  Yeah, a little bit.

• 1:42:01Joe Rogan?

  Joey brings the party.

• 1:42:02Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:42:02Joe Rogan?

  He's the funniest guy I've ever met.

• 1:42:04Speaker 03

  Oh man, he's got some stories.

• 1:42:05Joe Rogan?

  Oh my God, they never end. I've met, I've known him for fucking thirty years. He's always got a new story. He's just a maniac and, you know, I mean, went to jail for armed kidnapping, kidnapped a drug dealer with a machine gun. He was out of his mind on drugs.

• 1:42:19Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:42:20Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, he was.

• 1:42:20Speaker 03

  Oops.

• 1:42:21Joe Rogan?

  He was a wild fella. He was a wild fella when he was young. When I met him, he was like right out of jail.

• 1:42:27Speaker 03

  How did you meet Jimmy Carr?

• 1:42:29Joe Rogan?

  Ah, I think I met Jimmy at the Comedy Store, I believe. Pretty sure. You know, I'd already known about him. Yeah.

• 1:42:35Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:42:35Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I'd already known about him. What a fucking great guy.

• 1:42:38Speaker 03

  Yeah, man.

• 1:42:39Joe Rogan?

  And so funny. Oh my God. He, he performed at the mothership last time he was in town. We were all in the balcony watching.

• 1:42:45Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:42:45Joe Rogan?

  He's so good, so crisp. The punchlines are so, oh, he's so good.

• 1:42:51Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:42:51Joe Rogan?

  Such a pleasure.

• 1:42:53Speaker 03

  And he just keeps educating himself.

• 1:42:56Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:42:56Speaker 03

  You know, he's got this voracious mind.

• 1:42:59Joe Rogan?

  Well, he's a brilliant guy, you know, and to see that brilliance applied to an art form, you know, to comedy, it's like you're seeing.

• 1:43:06Speaker 03

  He's just as funny in casual conversation.

• 1:43:08Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:43:09Speaker 03

  You know, we sit down, we have a chat, cause we spend a little bit of time together. And, um, it, it's funny cause he's, you know, significantly younger than me. But he's teaching me stuff. You know, I've never been a vacation person, for example. You know, there's work and home.

• 1:43:26Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:43:27Speaker 03

  Um, but home isn't often fully restful because, you know, I've got a football team. I've got other businesses. I've got the farm to run, you know, cows to look after and all that sort of stuff. So, but a couple of years ago, he just put it in my mind, like, let's just say, we'll take these dates and I'll meet you somewhere, you know? Um, so the first time we did it, we met up in Puglia in southern Italy. And earlier this year, we met up in Marbella. But I've already booked a vacation for next year.

• 1:44:02Speaker 03

  I don't do that. But it's like that thing of going somewhere which isn't home and isn't work, having no agenda, sort of hanging out by the pool, reading a book, right, from beginning to end.

• 1:44:16Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:44:17Speaker 03

  You know, without having to sort of put it aside and come back to it a week later and go, what was the protagonist doing again? Yeah, it's very interesting. It's very interesting that I should be, you know, I'm getting this late life education from a British comedian.

• 1:44:32Joe Rogan?

  That is funny that he's teaching you how.

• 1:44:34Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:44:34Joe Rogan?

  No wife taught you how to do that? It's a, I think there's a reason why people go on vacations. They're not all stupid. You know, there's a benefit to it. And I think.

• 1:44:44Speaker 03

  But see, I didn't grow up in that sort of family. We didn't have the money for that sort of thing.

• 1:44:47Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:44:47Speaker 03

  You know, we went on one big family holiday in nineteen seventy where we all piled into my dad's station wagon and then we drove from Sydney up to northern Queensland. But a cyclone came through on the way. So we had like four days of sunshine and twenty six days of rain. So, living in a caravan, playing Monopoly. So it's not like I look back, oh, I remember the great vacations of my childhood. So it was like, you know, my dad used to run pubs. So you don't get holiday. You, you know.

• 1:45:19Joe Rogan?

  You had to learn it.

• 1:45:19Speaker 03

  Based on the licensing laws, you have to be the first person there in the morning. You have to be the last person there at night. So we kind of lived that sort of life where everything was based on, on the, running the pub, you know, so. But it's, it's cool. It's good time for me to learn about it now.

• 1:45:39Joe Rogan?

  Well, don't you think like as a person who does anything creative, you have to have a bunch of different kinds of experiences to draw from? And if you just stay in the same environment all the time, it's probably generally not good for you. Like you need to go see other people. You need to go different places, not just to refresh and relax, but also to take in.

• 1:46:03Speaker 03

  Yeah. But you see, I do so much traveling.

• 1:46:07Joe Rogan?

  For work.

• 1:46:07Speaker 03

  You know, for, yeah, for work.

• 1:46:09Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that's what I was gonna ask you. Why are they doing a Portland film in Munich? Is it that cheap to go, like, how bad they fuck up Portland? That it's cheaper to go to Munich to film? Is that what it is?

• 1:46:20Speaker 03

  Well, you have tax incentives that are being, you know, offered various places. And that happens a lot here. There'll be, you know, X amount of movies, pretty much in every, every state who can apply for a tax incentive. And some states are more competitive than others. Louisiana, for example, Georgia.

• 1:46:40Speaker 03

  They, California basically gives you nothing. So it's very hard to shoot in California these days.

• 1:46:45Joe Rogan?

  Those silly fucks.

• 1:46:47Speaker 03

  Well, the thing is, it's such a busy place and the studios there, the studios would rather have

• 1:46:53Speaker 03

  a television show that's gonna be there for a decade than a movie that's in and out in four months. You know, it's better for them, right? So, but it's, you know, the world has opened up hugely in the last thirty years in terms of film production. And, you know, you're taking advantage of homegrown film talent and then building on that with international investment.

• 1:47:22Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's great. That's a great aspect.

• 1:47:23Speaker 03

  You know, Australia has a big history, for example, of making films. Technically, arguably, the first full-length feature film, The True History of the Ned Kelly Gang, might have been called that, was like nineteen oh six, nine oh eight, something like that, was made in Australia.

• 1:47:38Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 1:47:38Speaker 03

  Yeah. And, you know, all the way through, but, you know, it takes till about the seventies or whatever. Then you have this sort of new generation of Australian filmmakers who are actually making stories that reflect the current culture. And I think that's sort of happening worldwide as well.

• 1:47:56Joe Rogan?

  Have you seen Talk To Me?

• 1:47:58Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:47:59Joe Rogan?

  Talk To Me is a fantastic horror movie that these two young guys from, I'm saying the right name, right? They were on the podcast. I'm pretty sure it's Talk To Me. It's about this dead hand that someone found. What are the gentlemen's names?

• 1:48:14Speaker 04

  Danny and Michael Filippou, I think that's how you say it.

• 1:48:17Joe Rogan?

  How you say it?

• 1:48:18Speaker 04

  Filippou?

• 1:48:18Joe Rogan?

  Filippou, yeah. Hilarious guys, just bundles of energy. They're fucking nuts. But this was like their first real film that they made. They put together this, they did it all themselves. And it's a horror movie and it's really good. It's like-

• 1:48:33Speaker 03

  Where are they from?

• 1:48:34Joe Rogan?

  They're from Australia. I don't know what part. Jamie will find out. Uh, there they are, these two fellows.

• 1:48:42Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:48:43Joe Rogan?

  And they, you know, they finish each other's sentences. They're just nuts and they're just like they're on ten all the time.

• 1:48:50Speaker 03

  Oh, cool.

• 1:48:50Joe Rogan?

  They say Adelaide. There you go.

• 1:48:52Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:48:53Joe Rogan?

  So they're thirty two. Um, but that's a completely Australian made movie that was a hit worldwide. Um, recently, yeah, obviously Mad Max was a giant.

• 1:49:05Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, the when you start going through it, you you sort of do realize there's been, you know, uh, probably a. Uh, a much larger percentage than you would expect, given the population of the country in terms of people in film. Whether it's directors of photography or directors themselves.

• 1:49:22Joe Rogan?

  Or actors.

• 1:49:23Speaker 03

  Editors and the actors.

• 1:49:25Joe Rogan?

  Think about how many famous actors have come from there.

• 1:49:27Speaker 03

  It's crazy, man.

• 1:49:28Joe Rogan?

  It's really kind of nuts.

• 1:49:28Speaker 03

  When I was a young fella making my first movies, you had, uh, Mel Gibson. And Judy Davis. But Mel was born in America, so it didn't really count.

• 1:49:41Joe Rogan?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:49:42Speaker 03

  You know, uh, there was other guys around like, you know, Brian Brown had done Cocktail and Gorillas in the Mist. Uh, prior to that, you have guys like Jack Thompson, but when you really look into it, you know, then you have these other guys. It goes all the way back to Errol Flynn. There is a connection all the way through that, you know, there are certain people working in the business.

• 1:50:03Joe Rogan?

  Errol Flynn was Australian?

• 1:50:04Speaker 03

  What's that?

• 1:50:05Joe Rogan?

  Errol Flynn was Australian?

• 1:50:06Speaker 03

  Yeah, he was born in Tasmania.

• 1:50:07Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:50:08Speaker 03

  Um, and either born in Tasmania or born in Papua New Guinea and. Grew up in either place, but I think he was born in Tasmania. But if you think about it, since the early nineties.

• 1:50:22Speaker 03

  You know, Nicole Kidman, Cate Blanchett, Hugh Jackman, Chris Hemsworth.

• 1:50:28Joe Rogan?

  Crazy.

• 1:50:29Speaker 03

  Margot Robbie. It's just outrageous.

• 1:50:32Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:50:32Speaker 03

  Geoffrey Rush, you know, there's like name after name after name of of people who've made a. You know, a significant contribution in cinema.

• 1:50:41Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I mean, you consider the population size, which is essentially. There's the population of the entire country is basically LA, right?

• 1:50:49Speaker 03

  It's twenty five mil. Yeah, it's basically Southern California.

• 1:50:54Speaker 03

  And it's gigantic, you know, but it's hard to explain to people. You know, you show them where the major cities are and they go, oh, what happens in the middle? You go, not a lot.

• 1:51:05Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you don't wanna be there.

• 1:51:06Speaker 03

  It's mainly desert. It's like, you know, if you like wide open spaces, you're welcome.

• 1:51:11Joe Rogan?

  And a lot of things can kill you.

• 1:51:13Speaker 03

  A lot of things, a lot of things, yeah. Just had a little sort of thing on the farm, actually. My girlfriend's got a papillon dog, which is a beautiful dog, sort of long haired. And it got a paralysis tick. And they realized, she realized that between her and this other girl that looks after the puppy when we're not there, they'd got their dates mixed up and so it wasn't actually covered for flea and tick, you know, stuff in its bloodstream. So very dangerous. So they had to shave the dog completely and everything. They they pulled off another couple of ticks, but there was only just the one paralysis tick, so it's okay. But if you leave that and if you don't deal with it, the dog's gonna be dead in a minute.

• 1:51:56Joe Rogan?

  Paralysis tick?

• 1:51:57Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, it gets into their into their body and it is, it affects them the way the name says on the box.

• 1:52:04Joe Rogan?

  There's one that's going on in America now called the, well, what it gives, it's it's a Lone Star Tick is what what gives you this bite and this produces something called alpha gout. And it makes you allergic to red meat.

• 1:52:22Speaker 03

  What?

• 1:52:23Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's my friend, my good friend Evan Hayford got it. And he he was allergic to red meat for a good, solid year. And then eventually it went away and then it came back again recently. It's it's a huge pain in the ass.

• 1:52:36Speaker 03

  So we we have ticks in Australia, but we've never had to deal with Lyme disease like you have here. But in the last, you know, four or five decades, people started raising deer in Australia for for meat and what have you. And a few of them get away, you know, there's there's no deer farms around where I am. Um, which is north of Sydney by six hundred Ks. But recently, a couple of the guys that work for me on the farm said they've seen deer going through the bush at the back of my block, you know. So that means that there's some just animals that have escaped and they're most likely to have been in the southern highlands, which is south of Sydney. And somehow they've got themselves all the way up to where where I am.

• 1:53:19Joe Rogan?

  How many miles is that or kilometers?

• 1:53:21Speaker 03

  Well, um, we're probably talking about seven hundred something kilometers.

• 1:53:27Joe Rogan?

  They just wandered?

• 1:53:28Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:53:29Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:53:30Speaker 03

  And and didn't get run over or didn't get, you know?

• 1:53:32Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy.

• 1:53:33Speaker 03

  Absolutely.

• 1:53:34Joe Rogan?

  And they're probably bringing ticks.

• 1:53:36Speaker 03

  Probably, and the wrong kind of ticks, yeah.

• 1:53:38Joe Rogan?

  In America, they have a problem with that, too, deer farms and this disease called chronic wasting disease. And it's spread throughout, uh, large swaths of America have a giant issue with this. Where deer herds get infected. My friend Doug Durin, he has a farm out in Wisconsin. And they they've had a significant problem with it to the point where they've started issuing more tags and thinning the herd. They're trying to kill more deer to try to lessen the spread of this stuff. Cause chronic wasting disease, it get, it's a preon disease. So it's like, um, it it it gets on plants. It has, it stays on them for a long time. So they start drooling when they have it. And in that drool is more chronic wasting disease.

• 1:54:23Joe Rogan?

  So now the deer will come along and graze on the ground where they drooled and then they get it. Horrible, horrible disease. And a lot of it emanated from these deer farms.

• 1:54:34Speaker 03

  When I first bought the farm, which was a hundred acres to start with, but it's now like seventeen hundred, um, and it's attached to a state forest as well. So I can get up behind my place and go for days.

• 1:54:47Joe Rogan?

  Oh, wow.

• 1:54:48Speaker 03

  Which is just sort of like, you know, um, which is cool. But back in the day, we used to have platypus in the creeks. We had wombats. And now.

• 1:55:00Speaker 03

  I see more foxes than I see native animals. Or I see an equivalent amount of foxes as I see wallabies.

• 1:55:08Joe Rogan?

  Are foxes invasive?

• 1:55:09Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:55:10Joe Rogan?

  Okay, there you go.

• 1:55:10Speaker 03

  And they're absolute, you know, because they eat anything and everything. I used to have a big family of what we call bush turkeys. Living behind the house and they're still there. But they used to just proudly walk around, you know, and it was fun. You're going through the bush and then suddenly there's a road full of bush turkeys. It's great, you know, but now the population is right down and they're totally ninja now. You know, you don't see them very often. When you do, they're like very suspicious, checking you out, you know.

• 1:55:40Joe Rogan?

  Spirit hunting twenty four seven.

• 1:55:42Speaker 03

  It's foxes, man.

• 1:55:43Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you also have a lot, a large feral cat problem, right?

• 1:55:46Speaker 03

  Gigantic, gigantic. The one and only cat that I let my mother have at the farm. This is way back, man. I was training for Cinderella, man. And, you know, they sent me this group of boxes, Olympic guys and stuff like that. And every single one of them can smash the piss out of me in the ring. So I've got to smash the piss out of them in other areas. So I train them till they drop, you know, getting them on bicycles and taking them into the bush, you know, and things like that. Just to sort of like keep the balance, you know. And this one particular day, and I had it in my mind that I was just gonna absolutely smash them. I was gonna get into this situation because there's one road, you know. And I was just gonna get so far in front of them psychologically damage them, you know.

• 1:56:28Joe Rogan?

  How devious.

• 1:56:30Speaker 03

  Just had a conversation with my mom and she was like, oh darling, you know, you know, I'd really love to have a cat. And I'm like, mom, we lived in this privileged situation. We've got sulfur crested cockatoos, rozzellas, king parrots, all these beautiful birds. And the worst thing that we could do for them is put a cat into that. So you can't have a cat, you know.

• 1:56:54Speaker 03

  I'm riding through the bush, twenty five, thirty Ks in at this point, right? I'm getting to the top of this hill. I'm looking down, I'm seeing these boys struggling. Quite some distance, probably about a kilometer and a half away from me, you know. And I'm going, good, I'll just have a little rest here.

• 1:57:14Speaker 03

  And I just hear this little noise and I'm like, what the hell is that? So I just take three or four steps off the road. You know, probably about seven or eight minutes ago, I was coming around this corn and a car was there on the road, which is kind of unusual for the state forest in that particular area, right? So I take these three or four steps in and there's a little kitten sitting in the bush. Like, what the hell? So I pick it up, it's warm, you know, I can't leave it here, so I put it in my backpack, right? And I complete the ride, I get to the top of this hill where this trig station is and everybody's standing around and I go, oh,

• 1:57:51Speaker 03

  I found a cat. So I bring it out, everyone's all these big boxes go, oh, you know, cute little kitten. So I took it home to my mom, I said, okay, here's your cat. You know, and the way that I reasoned it is like, this is me saying to my mother, you cannot have something that will make you happy. And then the universe goes, listen to your mother.

• 1:58:14Speaker 03

  Now, that cat hated human beings for the rest of its life, you know? The only person it got on with was my mom. And we used to have like four bells around its necks to give the birds enough warning. So it didn't cause too much damage.

• 1:58:29Joe Rogan?

  So was it feral cat then?

• 1:58:31Speaker 03

  I think.

• 1:58:32Joe Rogan?

  Or was it tossed out of that car?

• 1:58:34Speaker 03

  I think so.

• 1:58:35Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:58:35Speaker 03

  It was too clean and too warm for it to have been living, but that's what people do. They have a problem, they have a cat, they have a litter, they don't know how to solve it. Pet stores don't want it, their friends don't want it. So they come up with the concept of just chucking them into the bush.

• 1:58:51Joe Rogan?

  Well, didn't it start out, what they brought, they introduced cats to try to eliminate some other animal?

• 1:58:57Speaker 03

  We have such a history of stupidity in that regard. Have you heard of the cane toad?

• 1:59:02Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 1:59:03Speaker 03

  It's just so fantastic, right?

• 1:59:05Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:59:06Speaker 03

  You know, they're growing sugarcane in Queensland. And there's a particular flying creature that they wanna control. So they start looking around. Uh, we always blame the British for this, cause it's usually, it's usually a naturalist, a British naturalist or scientist that comes up with the concept. And so they, they look through all the islands, can't remember where they found it from. But they, they found this toad who seemed to have this appetite for this particular insect and they would feed it and it ate it then. Great, so we'll introduce the cane toad to get amongst the sugarcane and lessen that creature. When they were checking if the cane toad would eat the creature, um, they were feeding it dead ones, right? Uh, it's a flying creature.

• 1:59:51Speaker 03

  Toad doesn't have a tongue like a frog. Can't catch this thing if it's flying. So it was of no use at all in trying to lessen that population. However, it became like a dominant species and it was in Queensland, but now it's starting to come in New South Wales. So they're basically marching south and it's a problem, man. It's, it's like a serious problem. They secrete poison. So if a dog gets interested and the toad gets afraid, the dog can sort of like sniff or lick its head, then get poisoned and that's the end of your dog, you know? But there was a period of time there where there's actually a documentary from the nineties called cane toads. And it sort of just points out how crazy people were getting with it.

• 2:00:36Speaker 03

  You know, people in a small country towns, walking from their house to the pub, taking a cricket bat and just smacking the cane toads off the road as they went. You know, it's like all these people becoming like, you know, crazed with the idea of, of getting rid of the cane toad population, but it, it hasn't affected them. They just keep growing.

• 2:00:54Joe Rogan?

  How much is the population now? How big is it?

• 2:00:57Speaker 03

  So big. And these things, Jamie, can you do me a favor? Look up the weight of the largest cane toad that they found. Because it's, it's always a surprise. Like these things grow. And if they're in the right environment and things that they can eat and feed on, they just get bigger and bigger. Look at this thing. Look at this thing, mate.

• 2:01:19Joe Rogan?

  Whoa, that's like an English bulldog.

• 2:01:23Speaker 03

  Howdy doody, it's bigger than my dog.

• 2:01:25Joe Rogan?

  Oh my god. Look at his head. What is the weight on that fucker?

• 2:01:32Speaker 03

  What does it say?

• 2:01:36Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy.

• 2:01:46Speaker 03

  You gotta wait there.

• 2:01:48Joe Rogan?

  Does it say how big?

• 2:01:51Joe Rogan?

  How fat that fucker is. 2.7 kilograms.

• 2:01:55Speaker 03

  5.8 pounds.

• 2:01:56Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 2:01:56Speaker 03

  That looks bigger than 5.8 pounds.

• 2:01:59Joe Rogan?

  It does, but it might be a perspective thing. Either way.

• 2:02:02Speaker 04

  That was the current one.

• 2:02:03Joe Rogan?

  Oh, show the video. Scroll up so you can see that video, or make it larger. Like, what she's holding it. Yeah, it looks like about 5 pounds. Boy. Have you ever seen when they, um, there's a lot of horrible videos online where they take toads and they put them in a box with mice? Ever see what toads do to mice?

• 2:02:22Speaker 03

  No.

• 2:02:22Joe Rogan?

  You would never think that toads are ferocious. You know, you'd never think that toads are basically monsters, these just giant-mouthed monsters that swallow mice whole. But they do. They're super aggressive. It's crazy to watch. Jamie, I know you're gonna get one.

• 2:02:41Speaker 04

  I just had to make sure it was worth pulling up.

• 2:02:44Joe Rogan?

  Is this a good one?

• 2:02:44Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:02:47Joe Rogan?

  But there's, uh, there's ones where there's a bunch of them in boxes. See, this one is kinda weird because he's not freaking out yet.

• 2:02:55Speaker 04

  He's being sneaky.

• 2:02:58Speaker 04

  Oh, what's that?

• 2:02:59Joe Rogan?

  Look at that head. Look at his head. I mean, if that thing was giant, like that was hippopotamus-shaped, chasing after you.

• 2:03:10Joe Rogan?

  Look how quick that is.

• 2:03:11Speaker 03

  How did, how did he get it? Must be closer than it looks.

• 2:03:15Joe Rogan?

  He just swallowed them whole. Watch how quick he does it.

• 2:03:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, this bit here.

• 2:03:21Speaker 03

  Oh, it's just one step forward and bang, yeah?

• 2:03:23Joe Rogan?

  Just snap.

• 2:03:25Joe Rogan?

  Go, see if you can find one of them video. Oh, he just inhales them. Like, he literally inhaled them.

• 2:03:30Speaker 04

  He's got a little bit of a tongue.

• 2:03:31Joe Rogan?

  Oh, he grabbed them with the tongue first.

• 2:03:33Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:03:33Joe Rogan?

  He yanked them in. Oh, god. See if you can find those videos where there's a ton of them in a box.

• 2:03:51Joe Rogan?

  Either way.

• 2:03:51Speaker 04

  That's a giant bullfrog, it's not a cane toad. Slightly different.

• 2:03:55Joe Rogan?

  Giant African bullfrog, either way. Point is, they eat mice. They eat them whole.

• 2:04:02Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:04:02Joe Rogan?

  And, and how many of them are now in Australia? How many million? Oh, here we go. This guy's just gonna go ham. So, just starts. He's gonna eat all of them? Look how gross those things are. They look so dumb, just so mindless and, and gross.

• 2:04:22Speaker 04

  I don't think he's gonna get all of them, but he's not long enough.

• 2:04:25Joe Rogan?

  He hasn't gotten any of them. What's going on here?

• 2:04:30Speaker 03

  Just gathering them in a corner.

• 2:04:31Joe Rogan?

  Ugh, it's, it's a creepy animal. So, and so, like, what are the numbers? Like, put that into perplexity.

• 2:04:40Speaker 04

  Uh, cane toads?

• 2:04:41Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, how many cane toads? Ask our sponsor, how many cane toads are in, uh, Australia?

• 2:04:49Joe Rogan?

  What was the initial deposit? Like, how many did they drop off?

• 2:04:52Speaker 04

  I had it, uh, it was only a couple hundred and then they bred like sixty thousand in nineteen thirty-seven and the answer for now is estimated at two hundred million.

• 2:05:05Speaker 03

  Man. And that little fly that eats the sugar cane, it's still there.

• 2:05:11Joe Rogan?

  Oh my god, two hundred million!

• 2:05:16Speaker 03

  But see, look, if you see where those, that, see that cluster of light blue balls, right? They're basically in there, in the middle of that, that cluster is where they dropped them to start with. And look at how they've.

• 2:05:28Joe Rogan?

  Well, they're gonna make their way across the whole country.

• 2:05:30Speaker 03

  Oh, there you go, forty, forty-nine, so the white one is actually where they put them to start.

• 2:05:34Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 2:05:35Speaker 03

  Everything else is migration.

• 2:05:36Joe Rogan?

  And by two thousand, look how far they've gone. Wow. What's the plan to get rid of those things?

• 2:05:44Speaker 03

  Um, I'm not sure that they have a cohesive plan.

• 2:05:47Joe Rogan?

  There's no plan. Well, that's the problem. If they have a plan, they're gonna bring in some lizard or something.

• 2:05:51Speaker 03

  Yeah, and that's gonna end up, you know, doing something else.

• 2:05:54Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's gonna kill everything else.

• 2:05:55Speaker 03

  Every single time they've done that, you know, like in New Zealand, for example, they introduced the gorse bush as a way to have hedging instead of fences. But New Zealand's got a way higher rainfall and sunshine hours than England where it came from. So now it's just everywhere. You know, so beautiful arable farmlands is taken over by gorse. And when it grows in Australia, in New Zealand, it grows thicker and more prickly and much harder to to deal with. We have the same thing in Australia with plants like lantana, just everywhere, all through the bush, you know, in my lifetime. So in ninety six, I used to be able to walk through certain areas of my property, just under tall trees with, you know,

• 2:06:35Speaker 03

  uh, subtropical ferns and vines on the ground. Now there's many areas of my property that are just impossible. You cannot get through it anymore because it's choked out with introduced weeds.

• 2:06:47Joe Rogan?

  What is that crazy plant down south that we talked about once that has overrun some of these forests? It's pretty beautiful, but it's also very creepy to see what it's done, just like taking over all the trees. All the trees, all the, anything on the ground is covered with stearia.

• 2:07:04Speaker 03

  It's called kudzu.

• 2:07:05Joe Rogan?

  Kudzu.

• 2:07:06Speaker 03

  Yeah, I'll make sure that's the right stuff. That's what you're talking about.

• 2:07:09Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's it. Look at that.

• 2:07:10Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:07:11Joe Rogan?

  Isn't that nuts?

• 2:07:11Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:07:12Joe Rogan?

  Like, that image is creepy.

• 2:07:14Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, at the back of my place, man, I used to have waterfalls and creeks.

• 2:07:18Joe Rogan?

  Look at that. It's taking over that whole building.

• 2:07:20Speaker 03

  That's crazy.

• 2:07:20Joe Rogan?

  Everything. Yeah, just, where'd it come from?

• 2:07:28Speaker 03

  So that's in Fiji, yeah?

• 2:07:30Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's in the United States, though. Um, so what was it? How was it brought in?

• 2:07:38Joe Rogan?

  Oh, does people bring it in on purpose?

• 2:07:40Speaker 04

  That's where it's originated from, sorry.

• 2:07:42Joe Rogan?

  Right. History of US introduction. Introduced from Japan in 1876.

• 2:07:48Speaker 04

  New Orleans exposition.

• 2:07:50Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that's where I heard there's a lot of it. Vine was widely marketed in the southeast as an ornamental plant. And then it just took over. Wow. It's funny when people try to do that, because they never learn, and yet they still try the same thing.

• 2:08:07Speaker 03

  Over and over, yeah.

• 2:08:09Joe Rogan?

  There's so many times they've been introduced invasive species. I have a buddy of mine, it's not necessarily an invasion species, but I have a buddy of mine who lives in Colorado. And they just reintroduced wolves into this area where they have farms. And so they took wolves from Washington State where they'd been killing cows. And so they had to relocate them. So where'd they relocate them to? They relocated them to a place with cows. And so of course these wolves start killing cows again.

• 2:08:36Speaker 03

  Haven't they shown though in one of the national parks here? That by supporting the apex predator, a whole bunch of other problems get solved.

• 2:08:45Joe Rogan?

  That's the Yellowstone reintroduction. And so that's called How Wolves Changed Rivers, right, that documentary? There's a lot of people that push back against that. I think you definitely need predators, because there was at one point in time, an overpopulation of elk in Montana to the point where they were having winter seasons, winter rifle seasons, where they would issue a lot of tags. So in the winter, they're stuck in deep snow, and you just go pick them off. And it was because they had so many that it was actually detrimental to the herd itself, to the health of the herd itself. So they reintroduced wolves, the population dropped by, I think, more than 40%. It might have been more than that. It might have been, I don't know.

• 2:09:30Joe Rogan?

  See how much elk's population has dropped since the introduction of wolves into Montana? In the Yellowstone introduction. So there's definitely a balance that needs to be achieved. The problem is... That area where they're doing that, then the elk are gonna eat, the deer are gonna, the wolves rather are gonna eat the elk. And occasionally they'll stray onto cattle and then they've, they're allowed to issue depredation tags. And you can get a problem wolf killed. But what they did in Colorado is they brought them right to where the cows are. They took wolves that had a history of, they know how to kill cows. That's what they do. They know how to kill calves. They've been doing it for their whole lives.

• 2:10:14Joe Rogan?

  And they took them and they introduced them to a place where there's no, no protection. No one's ready for it. No one has guards set up. They don't have dogs set up. They don't have anything set up to stop wolves. So it, so let's see. When the reintroduction was 1995, the winter count was approximately 17,000 elk. When wolf reintroduction began, fall to, fell to 10,000 by 2003. By 2013, only 3,915 elk. Representative drop of roughly 75% from pre reintroduction numbers. That's kinda crazy, but 19,000 is too many.

• 2:10:55Joe Rogan?

  That's kind of nuts. That's, that's a, that's an overpopulation that can lead to disease and famine and all kinds of things. And you don't have a, a good, stable ecosystem with both predators and prey. You get a situation like you have in New Zealand where they have to gun down stags sometimes. They have to helicopter stags because they just get overpopulated.

• 2:11:16Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:11:16Joe Rogan?

  You know, New Zealand is one of those places where all these game animals from Europe were introduced specifically to set up New Zealand as a beautiful hunting refuge.

• 2:11:26Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:11:26Joe Rogan?

  They would go there and hunt stag, but you know, the problem is you have to have balance. Like this whole, you can't just enter into like human ideas. You know, like, oh, well, one plus one is two, so we'll just add one and now we got, no, it's not how it works. Like you have to maintain the population of these creatures that you've now dropped off with no natural balance.

• 2:11:51Speaker 03

  We have a big problem in certain areas of Australia with wild horses.

• 2:11:55Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, they have that in America as well.

• 2:11:56Speaker 03

  Call them Mustangs, we call them Brombies. Um, you know, obviously a horse was really important in Australia when it was being opened up and and first colonized and populated and what have you. And then, you know, first of all, war, we still had light horse cavalry and what have you. So in certain areas, but mainly in the area where the mountains are in Australia, which crosses between New South Wales into the state of Victoria. Um, and, you know, we we name things pretty simply in Australia, you know. The uh, the black snake with red on its stomach is the red belly black snake. You know, we keep it pretty simple for the tourists. Now, what's that brown snake called? That's it's called a brown snake, mate.

• 2:12:38Speaker 03

  Um, so that area of the country is called the Snowy Mountains. And, and, you know, we have this sort of cultural connection to the Brumbies, which is things like, you know, the man from Snowy River is based on guys going out to to capture wild horses. But the population of wild horses has got to a point where it's destroying the ecosystem of that area. So now they have to go and find a way of of bringing that population down.

• 2:13:08Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, they hunt wild horses in Australia.

• 2:13:09Speaker 03

  And it's very difficult for people, particularly like somebody like me, who I love, I love horses, but I have to put that love for horses aside to what it's doing to the rest of the native animals. And in Australia, we've like blessed with so many unusual and fantastic creatures, but we haven't really been good um husbands of the land, you know, and and we haven't really focused on what's good for them, so.

• 2:13:34Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I have a good buddy of mine, Adam Green Tree, who lives in Australia, and he tells me that people actually hunt the wild horses. I was like, ooh.

• 2:13:42Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:13:43Joe Rogan?

  I don't think I could do that.

• 2:13:45Speaker 03

  It sounds, it sounds rough, but you know, we've got to do something because the, quite frankly, the wombats and the platypus and the quokkas and the kangaroos and the wallabies are a little bit more important than the wild horses.

• 2:13:58Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:14:00Joe Rogan?

  It's um, it's a strange thing, you know, the, the balance of nature is a very strange thing. It's uh, it's very complex. There's so many elements to it. That's, that's what they were trying to highlight in that um, Wolves Change River documentary. The problem with that Wolves Change River documentary is the guy who created that is a proponent of rewilding.

• 2:14:21Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:14:22Joe Rogan?

  Uh, to the point where I think he wants to reintroduce like dangerous predators to Europe.

• 2:14:27Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:14:28Joe Rogan?

  Like he's, he's got some crazy ideas about rewilding.

• 2:14:32Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:14:32Joe Rogan?

  Like going way back. I mean, I don't know how much-

• 2:14:34Speaker 03

  That kid that I was talking to you about, Merlin Hanbury Tennyson.

• 2:14:37Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:14:38Speaker 03

  Um, came out of school, went in the army, uh, did two or three tours. Um, but now has found himself in a situation where he's taken over a block of land that his, his father bought in the fifties or sixties or something. And he's turning that block of land back into temperate rainforest and seeing all of these benefits because of it. So instead of trying to, you know, run, run sheep or run some other, you know, commercial herd, he's just letting the country go back to what it should be and seeing incredible results because of it.

• 2:15:20Joe Rogan?

  Like what kind of results?

• 2:15:21Speaker 03

  Well, it, what he's shifted now and is using it for now is like PTSD recovery. So former soldiers are what have just go to this place and um, and you know, find a new balance because they're, you know, in that sort of natural environment. But just the, without certain creatures eating types of trees and as, as shoots and fresh shoots, those trees are actually getting um, a hold. So it, it should be, you know, oak trees, for example, you know, and there's only like, you know, uh, was only just a few there. But by taking out the non-native animals who's seeing those trees increase. I mean, there's

• 2:16:04Speaker 03

  a book, I forget it. If you could look it up for me, Jamie. Merlin Hanbury Tennyson, the book just came out. It's a great book. It really is. It's such an unusual read. You're sort of reading it and you think, okay, it's like- The re-establishment of a temperate rainforest, how can this be good? But then when he ties it in to the life journey of his father and his father's like health problems and stuff, it gets really emotional and it's quite a beautiful read. I highly recommend it. Could you find it?

• 2:16:34Joe Rogan?

  Our Okun Bones?

• 2:16:35Speaker 03

  Our Okun Bones. Yeah, it's a really good read.

• 2:16:40Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, nature in that form and its pure form is like a vitamin, I think. It really is. I think it's really, it's an actual good, you know, like you go out in the sun, the sun produces vitamin D. I think there's something that we haven't quantified yet that you're producing, that you get.

• 2:16:56Speaker 03

  Yeah, they're getting around to it, then things like what he's doing, where you can actually read the physical benefits of people going in the bush. But that's, that's what I get when I go home.

• 2:17:06Joe Rogan?

  A hundred percent.

• 2:17:07Speaker 03

  I get out into the bush and sometimes, you know, I might drive a machine to a certain point and I just get off and I walk and I just listen, you know, and I go and visit trees that I like or areas that I like. I'm actually going through, you know, a long time ago, I planted like thirty eight thousand trees as a kind of an offset, a carbon offset, right? Now those, some of those trees are twenty five plus years old. So I'm going through the process in that forty four acres where I planted that plantation of taking out all the non-native undergrowth. And then the next stage is going to be putting back into that area the trees that were ripped out of there prior to the First World War. Red cedar and white mahogany and all these things, so, you know, beautiful trees.

• 2:17:50Speaker 03

  And with the hope that I put enough in the ground that over time, red cedar starts popping up all through the valley, you know? But this is going to be stuff that happens way after I'm dead. But that process of stripping out the non-native stuff, I'm starting to look at that, go, okay, well, I'm doing that forty four acres there, I got another two hundred acres over here. I know there's waterfalls, I know there's creeks, I want to take all of that land, tan and stuff out and revive all that. So you can walk through the bush, you know, so, but these are processes that I hope that Will excite my kids to carry on with, we'll see.

• 2:18:28Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's exciting. It's exciting to know that you have this long term thing that you're doing. It's actually beneficial to the land and brings it back to the way it used to be.

• 2:18:36Speaker 03

  Yeah, not not like in a sort of overbearing way, but like just mud, that that little forty four acres. Hopefully of time and we're already seeing it now with with sort of like, cause we're clearing things out. We're finding lots of little tiny red cedars that are already there. Cause I put in four fifty to start with, but my aim is to have, you know, within about the next probably two to three years. Have five thousand red cedars in the ground in that area. So.

• 2:19:04Joe Rogan?

  It's just amazing when you think about the kind of impact that human beings can have on landscape.

• 2:19:10Joe Rogan?

  It's just humans, whatever we've done, wherever we go, we inevitably alter everything forever. And if you could just take a little bit of it, put it back to the way it was and then start contributing to these plants regrowing again. There's a balance to that. It's very cool that you can achieve that. It's also exciting. It's like, it's a, it seems like a cool project.

• 2:19:34Speaker 03

  It thrills me.

• 2:19:36Joe Rogan?

  But for a guy that has the kind of pressures that you have and the work that you have to do and the intensity and the long hours on sets. Like having something like that is a godsend.

• 2:19:45Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:19:46Joe Rogan?

  Your thirty two year old self, whoever it was.

• 2:19:48Speaker 03

  That was crazy.

• 2:19:49Joe Rogan?

  You nailed it.

• 2:19:50Speaker 03

  You know, I look back and I just, how did, how did I know? Cause at thirty two, you know, I had a little bit of fame in Australia. But it was nothing compared to what I would have to deal with after that. So having that sort of forethought is is just interesting.

• 2:20:09Joe Rogan?

  Is there anything that you ever always wanted to do, like a type of film that you've always wanted to do that you never got a chance to?

• 2:20:15Speaker 03

  Well, see, I, um, there are definitely guys in my business that covet, you know? They go, I want to do this kind of role. I want to be perceived like that, you know? But for me, that's not what I pursue. I pursue character.

• 2:20:31Speaker 03

  Uh, and I only, you know, I'm very, just very practical. I, I'm, I, I get to choose from everything. I only get to choose from what's sent to me. So from what, within what is sent to me, I always try to look for fresh ground, you know? People will ask me, why would you play that kind of character? It's like the bottom line is because I didn't do it before, you know? Why you wanna play Herman Göring? Because nobody's offered it to me in the past and it's a fascinating character. Yeah, it's a dangerous character. And there's, you know, a lot of stuff that goes into being able to play a character like that. But that danger is part of the excitement of the job.

• 2:21:11Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:21:11Speaker 03

  And it's not always gonna be that way. Sometimes you're playing a character that doesn't really require a, a lot from you. But you've gotta play the weight of the character. You know, you can't just sort of suddenly make your New York detective act like a superhero because you feel like being a superhero.

• 2:21:30Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:21:31Speaker 03

  So it's sort of like, you know, you, you just play the, the weight of what's required. And then every now and then, you know, you play a character that, that sort of has a, a, a, a principal sort of role in, in the, in the narrative or, or is the focus of, of the narrative.

• 2:21:47Joe Rogan?

  But the decision to take on the weight of playing a character that's a Nazi, the second in charge.

• 2:21:53Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:21:53Joe Rogan?

  That's, what was that, that's heavy, right?

• 2:21:57Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. But that thrill comes from that thing of saying, this challenge is so big. I don't know if I can do this. And then a part of you goes, ah, I, I should leave that aside. And then the other voice goes, let's just have a go.

• 2:22:17Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:22:17Speaker 03

  Let's have a go, see what we can do, you know? And see, someone like Göring, it's, you know, that, that word nuance is coming up a lot today. Because we can look at him in the stark sort of caricature version that a lot of people have in their minds of, of who he was. But that against the reality of his life and how he grew up, how he was educated, what his experiences were, who he really was a, as a man. Um. There's a lot more to Goering than just looking at this going, oh, bad man Nazi, you know. He, uh, one thing I find fascinating, when he was a kid at school, he was like one of

• 2:23:01Speaker 03

  the dumbest students in his class at a normal school. And because of his sort of continuous failure, as a punishment, he got sent to military school. In military school, he was a top student because it was stuff that interested him. He comes out of school pretty much on the dawn of the First World War, has his first military experience in the infantry as a young officer, gets wounded and realizes that standing on the ground and on a battlefield is not really the right place for him. What's interesting him is what keeps going on overhead. So he manufactures a way to get himself assigned to a fighter squadron.

• 2:23:45Speaker 03

  Is supposed to turn back up for duty with his infantry squadron, but sort of, you know, manufactures a way to keep him associated with the fighter squadron, learns how to become a pilot while he's doing that. And at a certain point in the war, they're losing more pilots than they train, so they go, he knows how to fly, he can be a pilot. Finishes the First World War with twenty-two kills, air-to-air kills. That's three times a fighting ace. And he's also, because he recently passed in battle, at the end of the First World War, he's in charge of the Baron von Richtofen, the Red Baron Squadron, which is the pinnacle of the German Air Force. So here he is as a young man, he's finishing that first war experience, and he is a fair

• 2:24:29Speaker 03

  dinkum, which means true, he is an actual war hero. And so through the twenties, he's on cigarette cards in Germany, buy a packet of cigarettes and there's a picture of Herman Goering. Wow. So, and he goes into that political environment, that post-Vijay environment with a

• 2:24:50Speaker 03

  A very definite belief in his country as being something special and he wants to make a contribution to bring lifting his country out of the mire that it's it's currently in. So he starts looking for a political connection and ends up going upstairs in a coffee house in Munich, I think it was, and hearing a fellow called Adolf Hitler talk. And realizes that he has a lot in common with this guy, or he sees things and knows that Hitler was a soldier. You know, it's a funny thing we put into the movie at one point, because there's a speech about Rami that Rami Malek makes about Hitler being a failed painter and a not very good soldier.

• 2:25:30Speaker 03

  And I think the response I gave Göring at the time, which is not in the film, but he talks through Hitler's actual military record. And yeah, he didn't, he didn't rise above Lance Corporal, but he turned down promotion three different times. He won an Iron Cross in 1914 and then he won a second one in 1918. And doing things that were showing such extreme courage that he was awarded the Iron Cross. And he delivered messages on the battlefield. He would take the messages from headquarters and take it to the frontline troops and then bring their response back, things like that. You know, so one point in time I had Göring say, you know, you could call him a failed

• 2:26:13Speaker 03

  painter, but maybe he got to a certain point in his life where there were more important things to address than painting. So, you know, nuance.

• 2:26:21Joe Rogan?

  I thought it was also fascinating that you guys delved into the fact that he was an addict.

• 2:26:27Speaker 03

  Yeah, we only touch on it a little bit, but that's, that is crazy. There's a really good book.

• 2:26:33Joe Rogan?

  Blitz, Norman Oller.

• 2:26:36Speaker 03

  Blitz.

• 2:26:37Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 2:26:38Speaker 03

  Which gave me a lot of information, because when Göring was arrested, he had something like forty thousand pills on him.

• 2:26:43Joe Rogan?

  Forty thousand.

• 2:26:45Speaker 03

  In his car, right? He had a habit of forty to fifty a day.

• 2:26:51Speaker 03

  Right, so you look at him and you can, you can see it when you, when you know that fact and you start looking at photographs, you can see him kind of leave the planet at a certain point where he's just off his tits all the time. You know, from about forty two onwards, he doesn't really have Adolf's ear anymore. Goebbels, Himmler, Heidrich, they've all taken those positions. The things that he promised he could do with the Luftwaffe didn't actually come off, you know, as strongly, they didn't know it at the time, but that's the Enigma machine, everything, the codes being broken. So no matter what they did, they're always being second guessed. So, you know, Hitler's trust of him was adjusted a little bit. And I also sort of liken it to him knowing he's gonna get stabbed.

• 2:27:36Speaker 03

  So he just doesn't bother going to the place where he would get stabbed, you know. So he does a whole bunch of other stuff and he keeps his authority, but he's not at, in the center of things anymore.

• 2:27:50Joe Rogan?

  Because of the pills, a big part of it.

• 2:27:53Speaker 03

  Big part of it. It's personal safety because he thinks like he's no longer has the definitive ear and trust of his leader.

• 2:28:02Speaker 03

  The pills overtake his lifestyle and he decides to, you know, interest himself in, in other things for the greater good of Germany, like the collection of great works of art and things like that, you know. But there's a, you know, a lot of things in this story that, um, that are just bigger once you start looking at it and examining them, they're way bigger than what we know or what we commonly understand. And that's what I was looking for, to try and find a way to, you know, understand his base motivations. And at the end of the day, he, you know, in his own way, he's a pure patriot.

• 2:28:42Speaker 03

  Just so happens to be a sort of a set of beliefs or whatever that most of us in the in a western world would call a baron.

• 2:28:50Joe Rogan?

  Wow. And and you gotta take into consideration the drug aspect of the entire Nazi movement. The all the troops were on meth. Hitler was on opiates. I mean, Norman Oller, that book, just I can't recommend it enough. It's so eye opening because you're like, well, that makes sense. That's why they were so fucking psychotic.

• 2:29:11Speaker 03

  That's why they could march through the night.

• 2:29:13Joe Rogan?

  Poland, three nights in a row, yeah.

• 2:29:15Speaker 03

  Through the Belgian forests.

• 2:29:17Joe Rogan?

  But it's very rarely taught. This is not like when we grew up, we didn't grow up thinking that they were just drug psychotic, you know, animals that were on meth, you know, in in tanks and the most they gave the people the front line, the most meth. So they had different dosages for different people depending on what they were required to do and the tank guys got the most meth.

• 2:29:39Speaker 03

  And if you think about Göring's position, he's the one ordering the drugs, right? How many pilots have I got? How many planes? How many missions are we doing? How many sorties, right? Do that multiplication. Add 10% for me.

• 2:29:52Joe Rogan?

  It's a drug fueled war, like probably the most drug fueled war ever. I mean, the kamikazes were using meth. And then the Hitler thing was, I always thought that Hitler was meth as well, but Norman was saying that he was opiates as well.

• 2:30:07Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:30:08Joe Rogan?

  So just like Göring.

• 2:30:10Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:30:10Joe Rogan?

  They maybe it was how they dealt with what they were doing. They all just stayed blasted out of their fucking head all day long.

• 2:30:18Speaker 03

  Well, I mean, look, you're surrounded by guys that have a sort of a fanatical mindset. You know, you're gonna wanna be awake.

• 2:30:28Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:30:28Speaker 03

  You know, you don't want to fall asleep at the wrong time if that's the group of people that you've surrounded yourself with. And that's the thing that I keep saying, it's a it's an old cliche, but I think it's something that he really learned. You know, if you lie down with dogs, you're gonna get fleas, Herman.

• 2:30:44Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:30:45Speaker 03

  Yeah. But I think him cleaning up by being forced, by being in a prison environment, being forced by the Allies to go cold turkey nearly killed him. He had sort of heart problems because he went from 40 or 50 a day to nothing.

• 2:31:01Speaker 03

  So but that clarity of thought that he had.

• 2:31:06Speaker 03

  After being clean for six or nine months when the trial starts, that became dangerous because now he's sort of got his faculties back. And he's intent on breaking down this whole idea of international law as as being ridiculous. That, you know, he's a man who served his country. He's still in a uniform. He's still like a military guy. So he's quote unquote, following orders.

• 2:31:36Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:31:37Speaker 03

  And, you know, they were a democratically elected government, who then, step by step, dismantled democracy once they were in power.

• 2:31:47Joe Rogan?

  And the fascinating thing about this character and the way you play him is in the beginning, he seems like a guy on opiates because he's like so relaxed about everything. You know, it's like he doesn't seem to be carrying the weight of what's happened to him.

• 2:32:02Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:32:03Joe Rogan?

  And for you to, and then there's dark moments, particularly like during the trial where you're like, whoa. There's a lot of range to this guy. And that's got to be a weird place to be to for you to try to put yourself in the mind of what ultimately became one of the most horrific figures in modern history.

• 2:32:24Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's not comfortable. It's not comfortable, but that that pain's part of the gig, you know?

• 2:32:30Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:32:30Speaker 03

  It really is. And there's you, you sort of learn to accept it. I say this to people quite a lot because, you know, the big question is, how do you turn off, you know? When you've been a Nazi for a day, what do you do to relax?

• 2:32:45Joe Rogan?

  Definitely don't do method.

• 2:32:47Speaker 03

  Yeah, but the, you know, you ask anybody and you would be the same. Just because in a little while, the podcast is over for the day, doesn't mean that that's the end of your job. Doesn't mean you're just gonna turn off and never think about it again till you're gonna obviously, you know, anybody has a passion for the thing that they do is gonna continue the process. Five o'clock might be when the office closes, but you're gonna go home. You're gonna have dinner. You're gonna think about the deal that you're currently doing, the presentation that's ahead. Whatever it happens to be, you're gonna keep processing. And that's what happens when you're playing a character. Cause you might have delivered X amount of dialogue today, but you've got X amount tomorrow too. So you've got to keep that process going. So.

• 2:33:28Joe Rogan?

  So you're just thinking about a Nazi.

• 2:33:30Speaker 03

  All the time, twenty four seven, all the time. There's no, it's relentless. One description of of making a movie is that it's a train journey. It's not like a car, you know, where you can pull over and have a wheel on the side of the road. It's a train journey. And once you get on that train, you're staying there until it gets to its destination. And you've just got to accept that. I mean, and that there's, you know, good and bad and that. There's a um, a saying that goes with this, you know, the the best thing and the worst thing about the job that I do is that one day it's gonna finish.

• 2:34:06Speaker 03

  Always finishes. You can be having the worst time of your life, but it's gonna finish. But you can be having the greatest time. You have an incredible relationship with the crew and the cast and the director, but it's gonna finish. And you have to get used to that. You have to understand that.

• 2:34:20Joe Rogan?

  When, how much time did you prepare? And how much time did you film for? So like, how much time were you actually in the head of this Nazi?

• 2:34:28Speaker 03

  Well, I I signed on in two thousand nineteen.

• 2:34:32Joe Rogan?

  So you started thinking about it then?

• 2:34:33Speaker 03

  I was going straight from loudest voice, which finished shooting around April or something like that. And I thought by the end of that year, we'd be doing, you know, we would have shot that film.

• 2:34:43Joe Rogan?

  So that's when you started researching it?

• 2:34:44Speaker 03

  Yeah. And then, as it turns out, we got set up and collapsed three different times. And so I had five years. Five years of, you know, scratching around, trying to find little bits of information to humanize him in my mind, but also for me to try and understand him. And understand the, you know, what he got in, cause on. It doesn't make a lot of sense when you read about his history and stuff. Where he gets to doesn't make a lot of sense. He was a mountain climber.

• 2:35:16Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 2:35:16Speaker 03

  When he was a young man, there are traverses in the Austrian Alps. That Herman Göring was the first person to do that traverse of that peak. You think about the mentality required of a mountaineer to stand at the base of a big ass rock and look up and say, I'm gonna keep going till I reach that summit. That says a lot about who Herman Göring really was. And, you know, who's Bavarian, right? So from southern Germany. And once, I, cause I didn't know he was a mountain climber. Once I knew that, then I started looking around for, well, what does that mean to be a mountain climber? You know, prior to the First World War? What kind of equipment would you have?

• 2:36:01Speaker 03

  And it's very basic, man. It's nothing, you know, you gotta, you're relying on your wits and your strength just completely.

• 2:36:10Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, they didn't even have nylon ropes.

• 2:36:13Speaker 03

  Probably not.

• 2:36:14Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 2:36:15Speaker 03

  Not then.

• 2:36:15Joe Rogan?

  Right?

• 2:36:16Speaker 03

  It's all stretchy hemp.

• 2:36:17Joe Rogan?

  Oh, Jesus.

• 2:36:18Speaker 03

  It's gonna be, behave completely differently once it gets wet. Um, but it gave me some real insight to him. But, and it also ended up giving me this great way of connecting to the other German guys who are playing the other Nazis, you know? Because I just knew from the first day when they all arrived and they were sitting together in a group, I could see that they were already feeling the punishment of playing that kind of character. So, um, I just brought them together and I asked them, cause now, you know, these guys, some of them are German, some of them are Hungarian. And I said, look, you know, there's this song that I found and I'd like to learn the song together.

• 2:37:03Speaker 03

  And they all, you know, most of them knew the song. But that's what we would do every day as a group. We'd get together, we'd sing that song and then we'd walk into court together, feeling connected as a unit, you know?

• 2:37:12Joe Rogan?

  What kind of song was it?

• 2:37:14Speaker 03

  It's called Musi Den.

• 2:37:16Joe Rogan?

  Is it a German song?

• 2:37:17Speaker 03

  It's a German song. And, but I didn't realize when I first came across the song, it's a Bavarian mountain song. And so he definitely knew that song. It's actually the melody that Elvis Presley uses for the song Wooden Heart in the movie G.I. Blues.

• 2:37:36Speaker 03

  Musi den, musi den, zoom, steht der late in house. Steht der late in house. You know, that's, uh, but I don't have it with now.

• 2:37:58Speaker 03

  That's what we've been singing together.

• 2:38:00Joe Rogan?

  So you guys would sing this to get into character?

• 2:38:05Speaker 03

  And if you need to be the calm. Yeah, so there's just a little thing just to remind that particular group of guys that we're just actors, we're just playing roles and, you know, this will finish.

• 2:38:17Joe Rogan?

  There's a lot of people that don't want to show a human side of a monster.

• 2:38:21Speaker 03

  Hmm, and which I think is very dangerous and quite stupid, you know, because it gives you a complete misunderstanding of what a monster is, you know, that, yes, okay, here's somebody with, you know, horrific acts, but as the joke used to be, even Hitler, you know, he used to love dogs. So that's the joke, right? You know, and, and that, but there's some real truth in understanding the human process in that, that somebody who makes the absolute worst decision in the world can still be a loving father.

• 2:38:54Speaker 03

  You know, can still have a group of friends, but on, you know, particular, in a particular moment, that is the same person who's made this horrific decision that will have terrible effect on a generation of people.

• 2:39:10Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I mean, it's, it's really the same kind of thing we were talking about with Tony Zaprano.

• 2:39:14Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:39:15Joe Rogan?

  Like that this, this person is a terrible person, but yet loves his kids, loves his friends.

• 2:39:21Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, charm is one of the greatest weapons of evil.

• 2:39:25Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:39:25Speaker 03

  You know, it's, it's a really, you know, it's a, it's a fun thing for us. We see somebody, you know, who can tell a story, tell a joke, hold attention in a room.

• 2:39:34Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:39:35Speaker 03

  You go, it's cool. But when that process of charm goes to this other place, which becomes about life and death, or they're taking away of people's rights, they're dehumanizing people, as we were discussing earlier, you know, and there's, you know, I don't want to get into politics because I have this, uh, my, my boys have this rule, if you're going to talk to Joe, you're not allowed to discuss politics.

• 2:39:57Speaker 03

  Because they know once I start.

• 2:39:58Joe Rogan?

  Your boys.

• 2:40:00Speaker 03

  My, my, my two sons, yeah. Because my youngest boy, I think I told you, he, he became obsessed with you. Um, and, and listening to your stuff, stuff for a while. And you became one of his sort of points of education. And, um, you know, so that's why I started listening to you because I wanted to know what he was hearing. You know, and I got, and I, I, after listening a few times, I was like, you know what, man? It's cool. You know, the, because again, we'll use that, that word. You do actually have the allowance for nuance. And that's the greatest thing about this situation. We sit down to talk, we're going to be talking for a couple of hours.

• 2:40:29Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:40:30Speaker 03

  So I don't have to reduce everything I want to talk to you about to make it pop in three minutes.

• 2:40:34Joe Rogan?

  Right. And worry about things being taken out of context in a soundbite.

• 2:40:37Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:40:38Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that, that, that, and this is the issue with discussing any positive attribute to a Nazi. You know what I mean? Like you, you, you open up that door. Oh my God, Russell Crowe's a Nazi sympathizer.

• 2:40:49Speaker 03

  But the people that don't like you are just going to take that.

• 2:40:53Speaker 03

  And here's what Joe Rogan's discussing.

• 2:40:54Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:40:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:40:55Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. It, but it's, I think what you're saying is absolutely true. That it is stupid to think that way because it, because that's a human being. And a very fucked up, evil human being that did horrific things. But know that that is a path that people can go down, even if they think they're doing the right thing.

• 2:41:15Speaker 03

  So we are taught, for example, to regard Gaddafi in a certain way.

• 2:41:19Joe Rogan?

  Mm hmm.

• 2:41:20Speaker 03

  Okay. But if you look into what happened in his country while he was the leader. You look into the fact that every person is given a house at a certain age. You look at the fact that everybody's education and healthcare is free. You look at if somebody showed a particular talent for something that required further education overseas. All of the costs of that were paid for by the government. Now, these are all things put in place by the same country's leader that we're told is evil and corrupt.

• 2:42:02Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:42:03Speaker 03

  So it doesn't quite balance.

• 2:42:06Joe Rogan?

  Well, there's also US government interference. That's a, that's a, that is one that we definitely monkeyed with. I mean.

• 2:42:17Joe Rogan?

  He ran afoul of the United States government.

• 2:42:19Speaker 03

  Well, what he was trying to do, as far as I understand the situation, is he was trying to unite Africa.

• 2:42:26Joe Rogan?

  Uh huh.

• 2:42:27Speaker 03

  And a united Africa is gonna be.

• 2:42:31Joe Rogan?

  A problem.

• 2:42:32Speaker 03

  Well, either it's gonna be fantastic.

• 2:42:35Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:42:36Speaker 03

  It's gonna be amazing.

• 2:42:37Joe Rogan?

  A problem for the people that wanna run things.

• 2:42:39Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:42:39Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, if all of a sudden, there's a new superpower.

• 2:42:41Speaker 03

  We've got a whole bunch of countries that, you know, have a connection with a certain African nation or whatever. They suck their, you know, minerals out of the ground or whatever, don't pay them properly for it.

• 2:42:51Joe Rogan?

  Yep.

• 2:42:51Speaker 03

  You know, and greatly benefit financially. And that's pretty much every European country's got some kind of African connection in that regard. And.

• 2:43:01Joe Rogan?

  Including China.

• 2:43:03Speaker 03

  Well, China's now coming in.

• 2:43:05Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:43:05Speaker 03

  Because it's able to offer a slightly better deal than they've been used to, you know. But people have to understand, the population of Africa is enormous.

• 2:43:18Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:43:18Speaker 03

  Enormous. You've got multiple countries with hundreds of millions of people.

• 2:43:22Joe Rogan?

  Well, when you see the continent of Africa and you see all these other countries, how many would fit inside of it? You're like, oh, boy. Because that's the weird thing about maps and globes, is you get a distortion of the actual true size.

• 2:43:34Speaker 03

  There is a distortion, right?

• 2:43:35Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:43:36Speaker 03

  Whatever that's called, which shows America at the center and being physically a larger landmass than it actually is in relative terms.

• 2:43:43Joe Rogan?

  It's a little, it's the size of Australia.

• 2:43:45Speaker 03

  Hundred thousand square miles, continental USA is a hundred thousand square miles larger than the island of Australia.

• 2:43:53Joe Rogan?

  That's not much.

• 2:43:54Speaker 03

  Not much.

• 2:43:55Joe Rogan?

  That's not much, especially when you think that you guys have twenty, what?

• 2:44:00Speaker 03

  Twenty-five.

• 2:44:00Joe Rogan?

  Twenty-five? And we have probably three hundred and twenty-five plus.

• 2:44:04Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:44:05Joe Rogan?

  I don't think we know really how many people we have, but we have at least three hundred and twenty million. That's a lot of folks.

• 2:44:11Speaker 03

  A lot of people, man.

• 2:44:11Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:44:12Speaker 03

  It's a hell of a lot of people.

• 2:44:14Joe Rogan?

  So we'd like to think we're a lot bigger than we are. But then you look at where we fit in Africa, you're like, oh, it's like, it's a little tiny, little tiny thing.

• 2:44:21Speaker 03

  I think there's something like fifty-five countries, isn't there, in Africa?

• 2:44:25Joe Rogan?

  Uh, I don't know. It's probably. I mean, it's also Egypt. That's the other thing, you know, it's also like the most advanced civilization possibly that ever existed before today. And they were there too. It's like, it's a wild place, like from top to bottom. It's a very, and it's the origin possibly of humankind.

• 2:44:45Speaker 03

  And a lot more desert, I think, than than people realize. You know, you have the Sahara, as if we all know that, but then there's this other gigantic areas like that.

• 2:44:56Speaker 03

  What would that be? The west coast? Have you seen those roads in like Namibia or whatever? It's just, it's like a sand dune. It's forty, fifty meters high, drops down to the ocean, and there's one little flat bit. That there's a road and that's passable, you know, at certain times or whatever, if the tides are not doing this and that, but that's the road.

• 2:45:18Joe Rogan?

  Geez.

• 2:45:18Speaker 03

  It's like a mountain of sand and an ocean and a one little ribbon.

• 2:45:23Joe Rogan?

  Geez.

• 2:45:25Joe Rogan?

  It's, you know, United States is, one of the weird things about us is that we're, we're a country that thinks mostly of ourselves and hardly ever leaves. You know, some people leave, but

• 2:45:36Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:45:37Joe Rogan?

  I bet there's a solid percentage of people that never leave the United States and maybe never even leave their city.

• 2:45:43Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:45:44Joe Rogan?

  And your version of the world, you're relying on other people to give you the story of what the world is until you go somewhere, till you go to Thailand, till you go somewhere. Where you're like, wow, there's a totally different way of living out here.

• 2:45:57Speaker 03

  Yeah, I've even had people, you know, come down to help me with movies or whatever, like guys that are coming down to train me in some weapon or other or whatever. And that they do a lot of traveling, but it's all within the continental USA.

• 2:46:11Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:46:11Speaker 03

  And they come to Australia and they didn't realize that other people have opinions.

• 2:46:18Speaker 03

  You're not gonna find a heck of a lot of agreement to, you know, some very basic tenets. If you're sitting in an Australian bar, you'll find a whole bunch of people go, that's fucking stupid, mate.

• 2:46:29Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:46:30Speaker 03

  You know, but like it's still to me, it's the

• 2:46:35Speaker 03

  the greatest country in the world is the United States of America. Absolutely. Greatest potentials are all here.

• 2:46:44Speaker 03

  But how it's founded on balance and fairness and opportunity? That's how it remains great. Not because you start taking opportunity away from people.

• 2:46:54Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:46:54Speaker 03

  Because you're affording them opportunity. And, you know, just, just keep that in mind, ladies and gentlemen.

• 2:47:00Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 2:47:01Speaker 03

  Cause it, uh, nothing's finished, nothing's done, we're just in the process and it can all get better for sure.

• 2:47:09Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. And it's the rare country that is almost entirely founded by people moving here. Over time.

• 2:47:19Speaker 03

  Yeah. It's all immigration.

• 2:47:21Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:47:22Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:47:23Joe Rogan?

  Which is

• 2:47:25Joe Rogan?

  the strength and also, you know, the, the problem with the last four years was that they were just letting anybody in. And they weren't vetting people and they were inviting people in. And the problem now is they're grabbing people that are productive citizens and they're grabbing them and taking them out because they don't have the right paperwork.

• 2:47:43Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:47:43Joe Rogan?

  So neither one is a good solution. And both of them cause huge problems.

• 2:47:48Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:47:50Joe Rogan?

  And one of the scary things.

• 2:47:53Speaker 03

  But you do have to be aware too, though, a lot of the information that we know about that is coming to us from a motivation that we don't necessarily read.

• 2:48:01Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:48:02Speaker 03

  They want us to think of things in negative terms.

• 2:48:05Joe Rogan?

  Sure. Both sides, on both sides of the issue. Yeah, a hundred percent. Yeah, we're constantly being manipulated. I had Representative Luna on the podcast. And one of the things that she said that I kind of knew was probably true, but I didn't want to believe it. She was like, there's a lot of problems they never solve on purpose so that they could campaign against them. That's why they keep these things in play. That resolutions could have been reached, problems could have been solved. But these politicians are so self-serving that they don't ever want that to take place. These people that run these two individual parties want to keep that banter back and forth. They want to keep the argument going.

• 2:48:47Speaker 03

  You see how absolute they are. If, you know, somebody with that color hat is trying to promote something, you know, the person with the other colored hat is absolutely ridiculous. Then it changes, an election happens, now the person with the different colored hat they're in charge, and they're going to put in place exactly what they said the other person was doing that was wrong is now part of their policy platform.

• 2:49:09Joe Rogan?

  What is wrong with the way Australia's run?

• 2:49:14Speaker 03

  Well, we're a little bit lucky at the moment. We have a Prime Minister who's very much motivated by trying to help everybody, you know, which should be the job of a politician, right? To improve the lives of the people that they represent. And he's kind of inherited, you know, a conga line of stupidity that was going on, you know, and he's trying to fix things. But of course, just the way things are reported, whatever, you know, there's just haters on every corner.

• 2:49:54Speaker 03

  But he's a good man, and he's doing his very best, and he's, you know, working extremely hard. But, you know, like, he arrives off a plane the other day. He's just come back home from some very successful international meetings where he's established various trade things and opportunities and situations for Australia. Gets off the plane wearing a Joy Division t-shirt.

• 2:50:19Speaker 03

  Right, big band from his youth and he's just a relaxed character, you know. He's been wearing a suit and tie for weeks on the road. He's just walking off Australia's version of Air Force One in a Joy Division T-shirt. So the member of the opposition wanted to point out, and did so in Parliament, that Joy Division is a Nazi term and comes from a section of a particular camp where the women were prostituted and that's why it was called the Joy Division. And it's like, okay, what's the point of that, right? We all know it's a band name, okay? We know it's a band name, right? And just because you like the Rolling Stones doesn't mean that you want rocks to be falling on people. What are you fucking talking about, you know?

• 2:51:04Speaker 03

  This whole stupidity. And that's what you're facing all the time. Picking up some pointless piece of minutiae and, you know, lighting it on fire and making a smokescreen to cover up the reality of the fact that that Prime Minister just worked his ass off on behalf of the country and successfully achieved a bunch of things and should be patted on the back, you know? Not pushed down the stairs.

• 2:51:28Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, well, we have a lot of that here, too. That's a...

• 2:51:33Speaker 03

  But there is a timidity, a timidity, I think is probably the thing in terms of how Australia is run. Things like the gambling ads and stuff like that. Common sense would tell you, this is not a good thing to allow. You know, put the timing of these ads back so kids are asleep or whatever. Don't let them read out the odds on the news. You could fix that pretty quick. But that gambling section of the community is worth a lot of money and people in positions of power. Because it's not necessarily, you know, it's not the guy that's going to spend his whole wages gambling through an app that gets to have a say in this, you know?

• 2:52:14Speaker 03

  It's the guy whose family money allows him to run a string of eighteen, you know, racehorses. And he enjoys going to the races on the weekend. And, you know, gambling for him is not such a big deal because he's got, you know, an income from other things, blah, blah, blah, you know? So it's the wrong perspective on a problem sometimes is the actual problem.

• 2:52:37Joe Rogan?

  And the fact that this is a fairly new thing. And that young people growing up with this, there's not a history of people abusing gambling apps. Right, it's not, it's not something their parents had to deal with.

• 2:52:50Speaker 03

  Right. Generationally, it's not something that I can, oh, you know, from my experience, I can tell you this. So I had to have a, you know, when I had that conversation with my boys, it was a broader conversation about gambling and about, you know, what it takes to earn a dollar.

• 2:53:06Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, the, I think the accessibility issue is something that people have a problem with. The fact that it's on a phone versus going to a place. Like, are you choose to, you're gonna get your buddies together, you're gonna go play poker in a casino? That's a different decision.

• 2:53:18Speaker 03

  Right. Than just sitting at home.

• 2:53:19Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:53:20Speaker 03

  And just constantly frittering away your money.

• 2:53:23Joe Rogan?

  Well, this is the thing, it's just, we're, there's always some sort of point of attack. There's always an attack vector for people getting your attention or getting your money and trying to, and then we have to decide as a society, like, do we, is this good to just allow? Like, we want freedom, but do we wanna, like, you can't advertise cigarettes on TV anymore. Right? They decided at one point in time, this is crazy, cigarettes are bad for you.

• 2:53:50Speaker 03

  You can advertise alcohol.

• 2:53:51Joe Rogan?

  You still can.

• 2:53:52Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:53:53Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:53:53Speaker 03

  At a certain time of day.

• 2:53:54Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's weird.

• 2:53:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:53:56Joe Rogan?

  It's weird. Cause alcohol probably kills more people than cigarettes.

• 2:54:01Speaker 03

  But that funny thing that we have that was fed to us that, you know, cigarettes are this incredible burden on our health, healthcare system. In reality, if you look at it, it's a burden, but, you know, there's a lot of people dying of lung cancer who've never had a cigarette. So we haven't really solved that. We don't really know where that's coming from. But in reality, the burden on our healthcare system is obesity. And all the problems that come from obesity.

• 2:54:29Joe Rogan?

  That's the biggest.

• 2:54:29Speaker 03

  Yet we allow food production systems that we know to be extremely unhealthy and very bad. We just allow them to continue on. You know, we've got items of quote unquote food that have been tested. And it turns out there's no actual food in this. It's just, you know, a manufactured product. I think the, the famous one here was the, the Twinkie thing, right? When they actually got around to looking at what was in a Twinkie, they realized that every single part of it was completely unhealthy.

• 2:55:00Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's just mostly sugar. Yeah, yeah, but Twinkies are delicious and I think you should be able to buy Twinkies. You know what I mean? So I'm on both sides of it. I'm a healthy person. I eat ninety-nine percent of my food is very healthy. But I think you should be able to do whatever the fuck you want. It's just education is the most important thing and letting people know what they're and then teaching people some discipline and how to be able to exercise some control over yourself.

• 2:55:26Speaker 03

  So I was hundred and twenty-six kilos when I finished Nuremberg. I'm a hundred point nine right now.

• 2:55:35Joe Rogan?

  That's amazing. Congratulations.

• 2:55:37Speaker 03

  Well, a lot of that.

• 2:55:38Joe Rogan?

  You look great, by the way. You really do.

• 2:55:40Speaker 03

  A lot of that is because you introduced me to your mate Brigham.

• 2:55:44Joe Rogan?

  From Ways to Well?

• 2:55:44Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:55:45Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:55:45Speaker 03

  And so I've probably connected with them about five times since that first time we went. And the real benefit that I'm getting that I think, right, because I'm not not completely over the science. But it seems to be with these injections that I've been getting into my shoulders, into my knees, but also IVs, that it's calmed down my body's inflammation. You know, I think we talked before about just how many old injuries I carry, you know, and how my injuries in my shoulders have a deeply arthritic. But we can now see in an ultrasound

• 2:56:27Speaker 03

  over time how what was messy a year ago and like big, thick bands of arthritis now is just lessened, you know? Probably by about seventy percent. And one area in my right shoulder, probably about ninety percent. So my range of motion, if we'd done this last year, would have been about there, right? But now it's fucking rock and roll, son.

• 2:56:51Joe Rogan?

  Isn't that great?

• 2:56:52Speaker 03

  It's all going good, you know?

• 2:56:53Joe Rogan?

  I know, it's amazing.

• 2:56:55Speaker 03

  Just feeling like the musculature starting to build and everything. I'm taking it really slowly and that was one of the things I was worried about with Highlander because jumping into that role.

• 2:57:06Speaker 03

  With the shooting date coming, it was like, man, I've got to do, I've got to do three workouts a day. I got to, you know, and that for me is a bad recipe. Because, yeah, I can, I can do that for X amount of time, but once I stop, I'm going to stop completely. You know, and what I want to do is I want to make all these changes and make it a long-term situation. So I think the Ways to Well was a great call for me because it's calmed down a bunch of stuff. It's taken a bunch of pain away, you know, so I can go and work out and not have to suffer for two or three hours afterwards. You know, um, you know, I'm still picking up injuries because I've got to face the fact I'm sixty-one. You know, like the other day, I'm doing my katana sword, trying to get this fricking move going.

• 2:57:51Speaker 03

  I fricking tore the tendon here on the ulna. Ah, so that's going to be bad for sword fighting. But I'm trying to fix that without having to have a surgical.

• 2:58:02Joe Rogan?

  How bad is it torn?

• 2:58:03Speaker 03

  It's only a little bit, really, you know.

• 2:58:05Joe Rogan?

  Okay, you've just got to make sure you don't overuse it while it's healing. Can you brace it?

• 2:58:09Speaker 03

  The, the, the problem I've got is I've got X amount of time to claim the skill. And either way, right? If I do the rehab exercises without doing surgery, if it fails, I'm now falling right on production. And, you know, I've retorn or something, right?

• 2:58:28Joe Rogan?

  But I can help you with that. Just do the skill slowly.

• 2:58:32Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:58:32Joe Rogan?

  Here's the thing about skills. Skills that you learn slowly, you can translate into high speed quickly because you develop a neural pathway. So instead of using an actual sword, use a foam sword. Use like one of those little fucking noodle things that people put in the pool. Use that. So you just, just develop them. When I was teaching martial arts, one of the things that I always tell people is don't try to do it quickly. When I show you something, I want you to do it slowly.

• 2:58:59Speaker 03

  It's exactly what I did.

• 2:59:01Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:59:01Speaker 03

  I'm in a car park and we were talking about the speed of something. And I went, oh, yes, it gets, and I went, oh, fuck. And I knew I'd torn it, but I just put my sword away. And I kept the conversation going, didn't mention it, but I got home and I was like, oh, fuck.

• 2:59:17Joe Rogan?

  You rushed, you didn't warm up.

• 2:59:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, the thing is, we were warm, but it was a thing that I just, just in that split second, I thought, I wonder what it's like to go full speed.

• 2:59:26Joe Rogan?

  Oh.

• 2:59:27Speaker 03

  And I did it, and I, and I just like, nah, way too early, but you're absolutely right. Pace is deceptive.

• 2:59:32Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:59:33Speaker 03

  If you learn something, I mean, that's like that old fashioned sort of stuff with, with, with the karate I first did when I was a kid. You know, they aim for you to do 10,000 of something before you have to use it in an actual competitive fight, you know?

• 2:59:48Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, people who train people with guns have a saying, slow is smooth, smooth is fast.

• 2:59:53Speaker 03

  Right, yeah.

• 2:59:54Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you don't want herky jerky movements and with martial arts and specifically sword fighting, it's, there's very specific movements that you're learning. And if you learn those movements slow, as you speed up, you'll be going along the right pathway. And when I would teach people kicks in particular, because it's a weird thing to learn how to kick something. Like, you've got to do it slowly, because if you try to muscle it, you're gonna develop a bad habit that's gonna keep you from achieving full power, because you want a proper technique.

• 3:00:24Speaker 03

  Yeah, and you have to process where your balance is.

• 3:00:26Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 3:00:27Speaker 03

  You know, what you, how you're pushing your force and about how you retain.

• 3:00:32Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 3:00:32Speaker 03

  You know, the ability to reset.

• 3:00:34Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 3:00:35Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 3:00:35Joe Rogan?

  Jiu Jitsu as well, you, you, people that learn by drilling, they get way better, way quicker. By doing it flowing and doing it more easy and play, like the Gracys always say, keep it playful.

• 3:00:47Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, see, the thing is, I know all this stuff, but I was in such a point of weariness that I was just trying to please people.

• 3:00:55Joe Rogan?

  Ah.

• 3:00:56Speaker 03

  And so I mucked myself up and, you know, but I've got a bit of time now for it to heal and for me to start and actually do like I like to do.

• 3:01:06Joe Rogan?

  Have you visited Brigham while you're here?

• 3:01:08Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, I just saw him miss that.

• 3:01:09Joe Rogan?

  Okay, great.

• 3:01:09Speaker 03

  Yeah, he's looking great.

• 3:01:10Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, he looks great, right?

• 3:01:11Speaker 03

  Yeah, he's looking good.

• 3:01:12Joe Rogan?

  He'll look, yeah.

• 3:01:12Speaker 03

  The new, the new place. Now, here's the thing, we talk about this and your listeners will probably, you know. It's expensive, no two ways about it. So it's possibly not at everybody's grasp what the sort of things that I'm doing. But I think, I'm not sure if this is absolutely right, but I think, you know, one of his sort of fervent ambitions, Brigham, is to make it more available.

• 3:01:36Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 3:01:37Speaker 03

  You know, because this should be, this is cutting edge medicine.

• 3:01:40Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 3:01:40Speaker 03

  You know, if we can sort of write things in our bodies with an injection as opposed to an operation, you know, the, the problem I had in my left shoulder, I go and see my shoulder surgeon who fixed it while I was doing Cinderella Man. And so I did two operations with this guy, one in two thousand and one and the second one in two thousand and four. But it's always had this sort of problem and, and he did say at the time after the second operation that he had to cut a few corners and it would probably cause me problems later on in life. So I probably went to see him about five or six years ago. And he said, okay, so your, this shoulder is at a point of arthritis now. What we have to do is we have to cut through the muscle bar.

• 3:02:23Speaker 03

  We have to pop out the humal head of your arm, arm bow. We have to shave off the top of the humal head and then we have to put a carbon fiber cap and then we have to put it back in, sew everything back up. You got about 12 months of rehab, right? It just sounds wrong, you know, it just sounds wrong. It's like, you know, so this process that I've been going through with Brigham is basically having the effect of layering. So I can now see that if the arthritis was that deep, it's now this deep.

• 3:02:57Joe Rogan?

  Mm hmm.

• 3:02:58Speaker 03

  You know, it's still there. I haven't solved it yet, but I'm giving my body what it needs to make it better.

• 3:03:05Joe Rogan?

  Also, there's new breakthroughs almost every week.

• 3:03:08Speaker 03

  Right.

• 3:03:08Joe Rogan?

  And these new breakthroughs, they're, they're able to achieve the, the, they're, they're growing actual cartilage on people that were bone on bone.

• 3:03:19Speaker 03

  Right.

• 3:03:20Joe Rogan?

  So they're, they're developing new methods to regenerate tissue. That's the cushioning in between your, your knees and your elbows and all these things that were, and shoulders that were requiring people to get those horrific things.

• 3:03:32Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 3:03:33Joe Rogan?

  Putting an artificial joint in place because everything is so arthritic.

• 3:03:36Speaker 03

  That's one of the things that does trouble me greatly in, for this country.

• 3:03:43Speaker 03

  Health.

• 3:03:46Speaker 03

  Medical.

• 3:03:49Speaker 03

  Systems. To benefit. Everybody. Something has perverted here. Where, you know, the drug that I might need that I can buy for fifty dollars for a month supply in Australia is two and a half thousand dollars for a month here.

• 3:04:06Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 3:04:06Speaker 03

  Come on, man.

• 3:04:07Joe Rogan?

  I know.

• 3:04:07Speaker 03

  What's going on?

• 3:04:08Joe Rogan?

  It's crazy.

• 3:04:08Speaker 03

  You know, and where's, see, you've got all these elected representatives here and this country's got, you know, a lot.

• 3:04:17Speaker 03

  That's what you should be working on, man.

• 3:04:19Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but they can't.

• 3:04:21Speaker 03

  Cause everybody's got their.

• 3:04:22Joe Rogan?

  Everybody's got their hands tied. Yeah, they're all got, including the media. That's the crazy thing is the amount of money they spend on advertising for the media that really just serves the purpose of now the media can't criticize the pharmaceutical drug companies.

• 3:04:36Speaker 03

  Yeah, so interesting, cause you know, I get back here, as you know, you know, my girlfriend's from New Orleans. And, you know, we're sitting and watching TV here and she's now seeing America from the outside. Cause she spends most of the time traveling with me and we don't spend that much time in, within America. You know, we live in Australia, but we've been, I've been working mainly in, in Europe the last few years. So she's now coming back to her country, but she's got fresh eyes. And she's sitting there the other night, she was watching something. She came out, she said, I've just watched like twelve ads for drugs. Right, just one after the other, after the other, after the other, you know, what, what's this tiny little problem that you might have, or you, if I can say it in a certain way to make you think that you've got it, bang, I got a drug for it.

• 3:05:20Speaker 03

  Bang, bang, you know, and, yeah, I mean. Six hundred thousand plus people in this country in the next twelve months will go bankrupt because of their medical bills. You know how many people will go bankrupt in Australia because of their medical bills in the next twelve months?

• 3:05:37Joe Rogan?

  Zero.

• 3:05:37Speaker 03

  Zero.

• 3:05:38Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah, it's one of the biggest problems we have. You know, and the idea that you would let that happen and not do anything about it because you're bought and paid for by these enormous companies is kind of insane. It's insane and they're trying, they're trying to do something about that, you know, and RFK Junior's fighting an uphill battle. Trying to do something about that, but it's a captured industry.

• 3:06:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 3:06:08Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. And, you know, socialized medicines probably-

• 3:06:11Speaker 03

  The fact that the largest Western economy is punishing its citizens in that way.

• 3:06:19Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 3:06:20Speaker 03

  Just beggars belief. That's crazy. That healthcare isn't such a principle thing. Because if we're not looking after ourselves and aiming for the longest life, what's the point of the human existence kind of thing? You know what I mean? So that should be a principle. Everybody's health should be a principal focus of our elected representative.

• 3:06:39Joe Rogan?

  Well said. Russell Crowe, you're the fucking man. Thank you for being here.

• 3:06:44Speaker 03

  Joseph, Joseph, Joseph.

• 3:06:46Joe Rogan?

  Always great to see you, sir. It's always great to talk to you. Continued success and enjoy your vacation.

• 3:06:51Speaker 03

  Cheers, mate.

• 3:06:52Joe Rogan?

  All right, brother. Bye, everybody. And see Nuremberg, it's amazing. And all the other films when they come out. Bye, everybody.

• 3:07:13Speaker 05

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