#2400 - Katee Sackhoff

Katee Sackhoff is an actor known for such roles as Kara "Starbuck" Thrace on "Battlestar Galactica," Bo-Katan Kryze on "The Mandalorian," and Vic Moretti on "Longmire." In addition to her work on-screen, she hosts "The Sackhoff Show" podcast.www.kateesackhoff.comwww.youtube.com/@KateeSackhoffOfficialhttps://kidsvcancer.org/ Perplexity: Download the app or ask Perplexity anything at https://pplx.ai/rogan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  The Joe Rogan Experience.

• 0:12Joe Rogan?

  Especially in Hollywood, right? You always have the bounce with those guys standing there with the big...

• 0:17Speaker 02

  You always need someone wandering around in front of you. Especially when you get to a certain age, you're like, can we just put Vaseline on the camera?

• 0:25Joe Rogan?

  Oh, like a filter?

• 0:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly.

• 0:28Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, my wife actually likes it when her lens on her camera phone is blurry.

• 0:32Speaker 02

  A little dirty?

• 0:33Joe Rogan?

  She's like, it gives you a little filter.

• 0:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm sure they offer that filter. Slightly dirty lens.

• 0:39Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, smudgy lens, yeah. So, really nice to meet you.

• 0:43Speaker 02

  It's nice to meet you.

• 0:44Joe Rogan?

  You were a part of, I think, the most underappreciated sci-fi show ever.

• 0:50Speaker 02

  I think at the time, absolutely.

• 0:51Joe Rogan?

  I mean, even now, I don't think people talk about it enough. It was a fucking great show.

• 0:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 0:56Joe Rogan?

  And I was so skeptical about Battlestar Galactica, because when I was a kid, I watched the original series. And then there was a new one coming out, and I was like, oh, come on. And then somebody told me, I forget, one of my friends, one of my comedian friends, like, dude, you gotta watch the show. It's fucking great. Like, it's not what you expect. Like, you'd think it'd be like the old Battlestar Galactica, which is kinda sorta corny a little bit, but it was a really fucking good show.

• 1:19Speaker 02

  When did you watch it? When it was on or after?

• 1:21Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, no, when it was on.

• 1:22Speaker 02

  Okay, so originally?

• 1:23Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was, um, god, like, when I first got the script, it was like 2001, and I was a 21-year-old kid. And at that point, I'd been playing like stereotypical blonde roles. You know, I was in a movie where you were like, please die. You know, like, I was that girl, you know? And so I knew that if I could change my career, I needed to change it, and I saw this script...

• 1:48Joe Rogan?

  That's hilarious that you're thinking I need to change my career at 21.

• 1:51Speaker 02

  At 21.

• 1:52Joe Rogan?

  That's how crazy the hourglass is in Hollywood.

• 1:55Speaker 02

  I was like, this is, I got, I got seven years left.

• 1:57Joe Rogan?

  Right, so crazy. It's a fucking catchy job.

• 2:01Speaker 02

  I know. And so I was like, what am I gonna do, right? And I saw this script, and Ron Moore had put a, like, an entry page on the front of the miniseries. It was like a bible that he called it. And it was him saying what he wanted to create, and what he wanted it to look like, and what his intention was behind the show. And that one page was so moving that it could have been... I didn't even matter what it was on the inside. I was like, if this guy is in charge, it's gonna be amazing. And as soon as I got introduced to Starbuck, like, reading that script, I was like, this is it. Like, this is, this is the character that if I can book this character,

• 2:46Speaker 02

  like, it will change the way that people see me in this business. And granted, I was 21, people were not talking about me.

• 2:52Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:53Speaker 02

  You know, I'd been working for five years at that point, and pretty steadily. Like, I had a good career going, but like, I was not someone that, like, people called home about yet. I was, I was on the list, you know? But that show changed everything.

• 3:07Joe Rogan?

  Well, it was also a risky thing because you were playing a role that was played by a man. So that was a little thing where there's like a little bit of, "Oh, there's a girl playing Starbuck now."

• 3:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, I know, it was really strange. So I, um, I was like, almost had booked the part, or was, maybe I'd booked the part, I don't quite remember. And I called my dad, who's a huge science fiction fan, and raised me on like sci-fi. And I was like, I booked this job. And he was like, "That's amazing, what is it?" And I said, "Battlestar Galactica." And he went, "Oh, my god, that's great." I watched that when I was, you know, um, younger. And he was like, "Hugh, you're playing." And I said, "Starbuck." And he was like, "Oh, fuck."

• 3:49Speaker 02

  "You need to go watch this." And I was like, "Okay, alright." So I like, tromped on down to, you know, Blockbuster Video, and I rent the VHS, maybe? The DVDs, I don't remember what it was. And I'm sitting on the couch with a girlfriend, and we like, opened a bottle of wine, and we're like, watching this to like, be like, "Okay, what's my dad talking about?" And at some point, she looked at me, and they were like, talking about Starbuck. And I was like, "That's so weird, we must have missed her." "Where is she?"

• 4:17Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that's funny.

• 4:18Speaker 02

  And we rewound it a little bit, and I was like, "Oh, crap."

• 4:22Joe Rogan?

  It's a guy.

• 4:22Speaker 02

  And then I turned it off, and I never watched it again. Because I knew that in that moment, it wasn't the same character.

• 4:29Joe Rogan?

  It's not the same show.

• 4:30Speaker 02

  It's not the same show.

• 4:31Joe Rogan?

  It's kinda crazy that they did that, because they made a way better show about a show that was just kinda nostalgic.

• 4:38Speaker 02

  It was. I mean, it really only existed, existed for a year, I think. And then they had like, a movie or two afterwards. But it was a very short-lived show.

• 4:49Speaker 02

  And I find, I always find it absolutely amazing. Ron Moore is a genius, by the way. Like, he's absolutely, his, to be a fly on the wall of that brain would probably just explode in my head. But he, um, the fact that he saw what he saw and led the charge on that show and brought the people on board that he did that had the same vision, if not, um, uh, you know, hire people that are better than you, you know? And, and so he hired people that added to the vision that he wanted to create. And he, man, the fact that he saw that from the original was pretty amazing.

• 5:26Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, kinda crazy. Because the original show was basically a rip-off of Star Wars.

• 5:29Speaker 02

  It was.

• 5:30Joe Rogan?

  They were just trying to make a Star Wars TV show.

• 5:32Speaker 02

  I think so. I mean, I, I think that, you know, Starbuck was Han Solo.

• 5:36Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 5:37Speaker 02

  Right?

• 5:37Joe Rogan?

  Right. Um. And the Cylons were kinda like stormtroopers.

• 5:40Speaker 02

  They were.

• 5:41Joe Rogan?

  Robot stormtroopers.

• 5:42Speaker 02

  It was pretty, yeah, exactly. I don't know who Daggett the Dog was.

• 5:47Joe Rogan?

  No, I don't know. I mean, what they did was, you know, they, they took like a frie, they said like, I see what you were trying to do. But I, this could be a real show.

• 5:58Speaker 02

  Yeah. I mean, and it came out in a time where science fiction was allowed to be incredibly topical. And it was always dismissed as, oh, that's just science fiction. It's not real.

• 6:13Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 6:13Speaker 02

  So Battlestar was allowed to talk about controversial things that were happening currently in the environment and in our country and abroad. And, and it was allowed to do so because everybody just dismissed it as sci-fi. And so it's incredibly, um, moving, the show, and people identify with it. The thing that I hear the most about the show, I mean, maybe not the most, but one of the things is, when I go to sci-fi conventions, someone will inevitably come up with a DVD box that is just beat to shit. It's dirty. It's like, they don't even know if the DVDs play anymore. And they're like, you know, this came with me when I was, you know, stationed in Afghanistan or Iraq or,

• 6:56Speaker 02

  and it passed through the entire barracks and it got us through. Thank you. And that, to me, is...

• 7:05Speaker 02

  Really amazing that a fictional show about people searching for Earth

• 7:17Speaker 02

  can be so important and relevant to people that are in the military, which is, it says something for the writing.

• 7:27Joe Rogan?

  Well, people need an escape, and that's one of the things like entertainment is dismissed, especially like fantasy entertainment, like sci-fi, it's dismissed as being nonsense. But escape is not nonsense. It's actually like brain medicine. Like, you need it. You need a little escape.

• 7:43Speaker 02

  Of course you do.

• 7:44Joe Rogan?

  And especially if like it's escape that's also inspirational and interesting and fascinating. It occupies your mind and it frees you up. If you're in the middle of a fucking war zone and you can take some entertainment value out of a television show that's about robots that are trying to kill everybody. It's like very valuable.

• 8:04Speaker 02

  Some of the hardest moments in my life, current and in the past, that I have been, have been able, I've been able to get through them because of television and film. Not because like I'm in it. Yes, the fantasy of going to work and being somebody else absolutely takes you out of your own skin for a second, but like, you know, going through the health struggles with our daughter, watching TV with her, completely transports you to a different place.

• 8:32Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 8:33Speaker 02

  You know, I mean, we can all do that. We can all relate to that.

• 8:35Joe Rogan?

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• 9:39Joe Rogan?

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• 10:25Joe Rogan?

  for your favorite sports teams, fast and simple. Download Apple Sports for free on the App Store or find it on your new iPhone. This episode is brought to you by the Mosquito Bowl. Here's a story that's pretty incredible. After Pearl Harbor, four of the best college football players in America walk away from promising NFL careers to enlist in the Marines and fight in World War II. And the craziest part, it's a true story. These guys had their whole lives ahead of them, but traded the glory of the gridiron for the brutal reality of combat where the stakes were life and death. Directed by Peter Berg, the guy behind Friday Night Lights, and starring Nicholas Galatzin, Bill Skarsgård,

• 11:10Joe Rogan?

  Ray Nicholson, and Tom Francis. The Mosquito Bowl, now playing in theaters.

• 11:16Speaker 02

  So.

• 11:17Joe Rogan?

  I mean, you can get too much of it in your life where you're just wasting your life away. But as a supplement.

• 11:22Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, of course.

• 11:23Joe Rogan?

  I think that entertainment is very important.

• 11:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 11:27Joe Rogan?

  And it's also that I think we get something very valuable about out of viewing other people's creations. I think there's something to that. When a group of people put together something really cool and when it's over, you're like, wow, that was fucking awesome.

• 11:39Speaker 02

  Art is really important.

• 11:41Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 11:42Speaker 02

  I think that, that, you know, creating just art in any, any medium is really important because it transports people. It makes them feel something, whether it makes you feel, whatever it makes you feel.

• 11:55Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 11:56Speaker 02

  It's incredibly important. One of the, one of my favorite things is to go to a concert and experience live music with a crowd. It is absolutely amazing.

• 12:05Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 12:05Speaker 02

  It's amazing.

• 12:06Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's a different thing, right?

• 12:08Speaker 02

  It really is.

• 12:08Joe Rogan?

  Because you're, there's some sort of a mind meld with the entire audience.

• 12:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 12:13Joe Rogan?

  Where you feel this energy of everybody enjoying the same thing together. It's like this shared happiness.

• 12:19Speaker 02

  It's the same with a comedy show.

• 12:20Joe Rogan?

  Sure.

• 12:20Speaker 02

  I mean, it's that, it's when an audience is with you, when you're, I mean, it's gotta feel like the same thing. You can tell instantaneously if the audience is gonna be good if you've won them over, I would imagine.

• 12:30Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, there's that, but there's, you know, there's also just the thing of, there's a thing of, you're kind, when you're a comedian, you're kind of almost like a passenger at a certain point. And you're really just, you're just, you know what to do and you sort of like leave yourself out the door and just go into it and then perform it. And then it becomes alive and then you're riding it. And then the audience rides it with you. That's when it's at like at the best. But it's like a, it's a mass hypnosis is what it is. It's like everybody is on the same mind page. And that's the same with a great concert. And when a great song comes on and your body literally changes like, fuck, yeah.

• 13:13Joe Rogan?

  Like, there's a feeling, like a drug that comes over you because you hear a great song.

• 13:18Speaker 02

  I'm literally laughing because like I don't. I don't know if you've got, your kids are like in the right age of this, but like, so K-pop Demon Hunter is like taking over the world right now on Netflix. Our daughter is four and we were like a little reluctant, but I was like, everyone's talking about this thing. And like, she'd already heard some of the music, so I was like, let's try it out. And there were a couple moments that were like a bit, we were, my husband was a bit uncomfortable with some of like the sexualization aspects of it. Just the girls wearing more adult clothes, she's three and a half.

• 13:50Joe Rogan?

  Is this an anime show?

• 13:51Speaker 02

  It's anime.

• 13:52Joe Rogan?

  K-pop Demon Hunter?

• 13:54Speaker 02

  There it is.

• 13:55Joe Rogan?

  Oh, hot anime ladies.

• 13:56Speaker 02

  It is. The music from this thing is absolutely phenomenal.

• 14:04Joe Rogan?

  What is going on with their bodies?

• 14:05Speaker 02

  The message, well, the animation is really interesting, actually. It's really interesting. But it's, um, the message behind it, uh, fighting your own demons, believing in yourself, owning who you are. Not hiding an aspect of yourself that you're ashamed of, but, but making it part of who you are and being proud of it. It's like a very good message, like even for like a four-year-old. But the music is taking over the world and we didn't realize how crazy this was. And the final story where I was like, fine, well, let her watch the damn thing. She was at music class and one kid started singing this song from K-pop Demon Hunter. And within, I shit you not, like 20 seconds, every single kid was singing these songs.

• 14:46Speaker 02

  And these are not easy songs to sing. They're half R&B, like half rap, like, I mean, these are hard songs. And these five, six-year-olds have this thing memorized. And I was like, oh my god. And so we sit down and we watch it. It's phenomenal. We've seen it three times. It's so good. I was listening to the soundtrack on the way here. I was like, this shit's like, this is amazing. And then I'm Googling, is K-pop Demon Hunter going on concert tour? Like, are they gonna go? Cause I really wanna see this show.

• 15:14Joe Rogan?

  How could they go on tour? Are they real people?

• 15:16Speaker 02

  And they are, and they're real musicians.

• 15:18Joe Rogan?

  Wait a minute. So there's real musicians that are at the heart of this?

• 15:20Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 15:20Joe Rogan?

  Stars of K-pop Demon Hunter will make their first ever live concert appearance?

• 15:23Speaker 02

  Stop it.

• 15:24Joe Rogan?

  Well, wait a minute. How's that possible? They're, they're not human.

• 15:27Speaker 02

  So it was, it was actually, they all are. So the Music is created. There's video out there of the girls singing the songs, the song Golden, the three of them.

• 15:35Joe Rogan?

  What do they look like? Do they look like Taylor Swift?

• 15:37Speaker 02

  They look a little like their characters.

• 15:39Joe Rogan?

  Cause those ladies all have Taylor Swift bodies, these longs.

• 15:42Speaker 02

  I know. I honestly haven't paid attention to their bodies, to be honest, because they're such like phenomenal like singers. They're so stylized. Like one of them has like, um, um, like diamond, like the diamond studs on her teeth. Like when she was singing and our daughter was like, what is this? I was like, you're too young.

• 16:01Joe Rogan?

  You can't have diamonds on your baby teeth.

• 16:03Speaker 02

  I mean, I guess if you're gonna get diamonds on your teeth, put them in the baby teeth, right?

• 16:06Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 16:07Speaker 02

  But I was like, no, we're not there. But she, I love the message behind it, but the music is infectious. It's really phenomenal and I wanna go to one of these concerts.

• 16:16Joe Rogan?

  That's hilarious. What do they look like, Jamie?

• 16:18Speaker 02

  So now I guess I'm going to Jingle Bell.

• 16:19Joe Rogan?

  The actual, cause that's like if you have these anime characters that represent the music and then all of a sudden you see a human doing it, you're like, oh.

• 16:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 16:27Joe Rogan?

  Probably needs to be better if AI made the music.

• 16:29Speaker 02

  Stop it. It will never be better if AI makes the music. You just broke my soul, Joe. No.

• 16:36Joe Rogan?

  AI is making some really good music.

• 16:38Speaker 02

  It's also making some great podcasts.

• 16:40Joe Rogan?

  Very uncomfortable. I don't know about that.

• 16:42Speaker 02

  I've heard that it's coming out with podcasts, right?

• 16:44Joe Rogan?

  Oh, they're the ladies.

• 16:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 16:46Joe Rogan?

  Quite lovely. Do they look like the characters a little bit? Wow, ladies crazy hair. So they're gonna go on tour. Are they gonna have, I wonder if they're gonna have the show playing in the background.

• 16:56Speaker 02

  So, and the lead girl that plays Roomy wrote a lot of the songs.

• 17:00Joe Rogan?

  Oh.

• 17:01Speaker 02

  As well. Like they're just phenomenally talented. Um.

• 17:06Joe Rogan?

  Isn't it interesting, like Korea has like their own style of pop music, like K-pop?

• 17:10Speaker 02

  Very influenced by the US, I think, too, and rap music and R&B music in the US, I think.

• 17:17Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. So when you decided to take the role of Starbuck, was there any like, was there any like actual backlash where people were like, this should be a guy?

• 17:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, there was. The first time we went to Comic Con in San Diego.

• 17:33Joe Rogan?

  Those nerds.

• 17:34Speaker 02

  They had us in Hall H and I was booed.

• 17:39Joe Rogan?

  Shut up.

• 17:40Speaker 02

  I was booed. It was pretty, um...

• 17:42Joe Rogan?

  No way.

• 17:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, so I, and I had learned, because everyone, the internet did not exist yet, mind you. It was like, brand new.

• 17:50Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 17:50Speaker 02

  You had to go down to the internet cafe, buy thirty minutes, log on.

• 17:53Joe Rogan?

  By the way, how crazy is that to say?

• 17:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, right?

• 17:56Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 17:56Speaker 02

  That the internet didn't exist?

• 17:56Joe Rogan?

  That wasn't that long ago.

• 17:57Speaker 02

  No, two thousand and three, we were shooting.

• 17:59Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy.

• 18:00Speaker 02

  Isn't that crazy?

• 18:00Joe Rogan?

  It was barely an internet back then.

• 18:01Speaker 02

  Barely an internet. So, um, I went down to an internet cafe, because someone was like, they're, I guess they're talking about the show in these message boards. And I was like, what's the internet? So, I went on down, I logged on, and I saw this thread, and just the hate that I was getting in this thread. I was like, oh, don't Google yourself. Google, I don't even think was a thing. I was like, don't search yourself.

• 18:27Joe Rogan?

  Don't Netflix Navigator yourself.

• 18:28Speaker 02

  Ever. Um, and, and then, you know, we went to Comic Con, and I was booed, and I think it upset me a little bit. I think it did. I mean, I would, I would be, I would be lying if I said it didn't upset me. Um, but luckily, there were enough people that were championing the show, um, that I really didn't pay any mind of it. And, and I was also in that age where it was the perfect age. I mean, I think now it would probably break me. Um, but at twenty-three, I was like, it was like the blissful ignorance of youth, you know? Like, I didn't think the show would last anyway, so it was like, you know, whatever. Like, not a big deal, just a blip on the radar, like, I'm in Hall H, you know?

• 19:11Speaker 02

  Um, and then I think that it slowly started winning people over. Um, and then I would go to cons after that, and the line would be longer, and the people would be more supportive. And people would say, I didn't want to like it, and I love it, and, um...

• 19:27Joe Rogan?

  I almost feel like the show was burdened by the original show. That sounds crazy, but I think initially, it was burdened by the expectations of the original show.

• 19:36Speaker 02

  Well, I think everything is burdened by expectation, right? I mean, I think that that's absolutely true, and so it's, it's, um, I'm sure it was. I, I, there are still people that say that they can't do it, that they were such a fan of the original, and, and my response to them is always like, do you love sci-fi? Do you love good sci-fi? And they say, yes, and I'm like, then separate it, have zero expectation, and just give it, give it three hours of your time. If you don't get through the miniseries and love it, so what? You lost three hours. Okay. But I don't think that'll happen.

• 20:08Joe Rogan?

  No, if you're a fan of sci-fi, it's one of the best ever.

• 20:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, so I've actually, I've actually never seen it.

• 20:14Joe Rogan?

  You just did it. You never saw it?

• 20:16Speaker 02

  I've never seen it. So we would have DVDs that you could watch that were uncut and sort of, you know, or I guess they were cut, but they didn't have any of the special effects, none of the sound effects, anything like that. It hadn't been color corrected. And I would watch them just to sort of like keep track of where Starbuck was, because in film you a lot of times shoot out of order.

• 20:36Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 20:36Speaker 02

  So I just wanted to know, okay, so in her story, she was here, but I didn't watch anybody else's stuff. I would just fast forward through it. And so I actually, my husband and I, I was like, we should do a Battlestar re-watch, because people keep, I've heard it's good.

• 20:54Speaker 02

  And my husband had never seen it, so we're gonna, we're gonna do that like in January. That's the plan.

• 20:59Joe Rogan?

  It's kind of funny that he's never seen like your biggest role.

• 21:02Speaker 02

  Well, so my husband's 10 years younger than I am.

• 21:04Joe Rogan?

  Nice.

• 21:05Speaker 02

  Thanks. So he was like 10.

• 21:09Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that's hilarious. You're a little cradle robber.

• 21:12Speaker 02

  Thank you, right?

• 21:14Joe Rogan?

  For a woman, that's a big compliment.

• 21:16Speaker 02

  It is. My husband's a piece of ass. He really is. And I say that so respectfully. My husband is like, he's a catch. He is the catch in the relationship, for sure. But he was like 11 when the show came out.

• 21:29Joe Rogan?

  That's so funny.

• 21:30Speaker 02

  And he grew up in a small town in the interior of like British Columbia, so like I don't even know if they'd had the television, the channel, so.

• 21:37Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it was on sci-fi, right?

• 21:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 21:40Joe Rogan?

  And the thing is, sci-fi at the time was nothing. Like, nobody paid attention to it. Battlestar Galactica was the reason why sci-fi got put on the map.

• 21:47Speaker 02

  I think so. I think like, maybe they had, didn't they have Stargate?

• 21:52Joe Rogan?

  Oh, I don't know. It didn't matter though.

• 21:54Speaker 02

  I think they might have had like one or two other shows.

• 21:56Joe Rogan?

  But nobody cared about it. There was no good shows. No disrespect.

• 21:59Speaker 02

  No, they were definitely, I think it was, it was definitely the show that put it on like the... I mean, my god, I, I, you know, so many people tell me that Battlestar Galactica sort of like blew the ceiling off of what sci-fi could be.

• 22:14Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 22:15Speaker 02

  And really opened a lot of doors.

• 22:16Joe Rogan?

  Well, it made it very different and then it did it sort of like The Sopranos or like these episodics where you have a show where you're following a long storyline. So it's like a long movie as opposed to the original Battlestar Galactica, which is like every other television show back then. You know, just, it was just kind of like empty.

• 22:37Speaker 02

  Well, it was also like

• 22:38Joe Rogan?

  Junk food.

• 22:39Speaker 02

  The eighties, right?

• 22:40Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 22:40Speaker 02

  No, it wasn't even the eighties, it was seventy-nine.

• 22:42Joe Rogan?

  Seventies, yeah.

• 22:43Speaker 02

  Because I wasn't born.

• 22:44Joe Rogan?

  Literally right after, right after Star Wars.

• 22:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 22:48Joe Rogan?

  Like Star Wars had become popular and they're like, how do we capitalize on Star Wars? Well, we'll have our own space battle.

• 22:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 22:54Joe Rogan?

  Thing.

• 22:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, that was sort of the thing back then, right?

• 22:57Joe Rogan?

  By your command.

• 23:01Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it was cool.

• 23:02Speaker 02

  It was cool.

• 23:03Joe Rogan?

  I loved it when I was a little kid, but you know.

• 23:05Speaker 02

  What did you love about it?

• 23:06Joe Rogan?

  Oh, it was just, I loved anything sci-fi, so it was like, it was just fun. And it was also like perfect for the sensibilities of the seventies and the eighties. It was just simple. You know, it was like there was a, the cocky guy, Starbuck, and you know, the other sensible guy and you know, the good cop, bad cop thing. It was a lot of fun.

• 23:23Speaker 02

  Did you identify with the kid in it?

• 23:26Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 23:26Speaker 02

  Not at all?

• 23:27Joe Rogan?

  No, I just liked it, you know, I just liked the show. But I, I really remember being very reluctant to watch the remake. I was just like, get the fuck out of here. They're not redoing Battlestar Galactica. But so many people were saying, no dude, it's so different. It's a really good show.

• 23:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 23:41Joe Rogan?

  And it's also today in this current climate of, you know, we are literally about to see AI become a, a life force. And it's kind of, I mean, it's very relevant today. You go back and watch it today, like how deceptive it would be if you had a robot that was very lifelike and knew exactly what you wanted to hear and like the blonde lady, the, the blonde robot, like the evil.

• 24:07Speaker 02

  Number six.

• 24:08Joe Rogan?

  Whew.

• 24:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 24:09Joe Rogan?

  She was good.

• 24:10Speaker 02

  So we got so much shit in the beginning that I remember the controversy because she snapped a baby's neck in that opening sequence.

• 24:19Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 24:19Speaker 02

  Of the, which was, people like, were like, you can't show that on TV and.

• 24:24Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 24:25Speaker 02

  Um, it was, I, I remember people just having such a.

• 24:30Speaker 02

  Terrible problem with that. It was awful and but if you looked at it from her perspective, she was actually.

• 24:39Speaker 02

  She was actually saving it in a way of going through what it was about to go through because they destroyed Earth. So she in her Cylon mind was showing compassion.

• 24:48Joe Rogan?

  Duh.

• 24:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, crazy.

• 24:50Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 24:51Speaker 02

  Crazy.

• 24:53Joe Rogan?

  We're gonna have things like that. And I don't know how much time it's gonna take before they exist and walk amongst us, but it's gonna happen.

• 25:01Speaker 02

  It really, it really scares me. I mean, it's, it's, you know, we, in my industry is, is really going to change. I think so many industries are gonna change. I think that's just a blanket like across the board.

• 25:14Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Well, that's why you hate AI music.

• 25:19Speaker 02

  I don't know.

• 25:20Joe Rogan?

  Acting is right there.

• 25:22Speaker 02

  Stop. You're giving me a heart attack. That's why I'm trying to diversify Joe.

• 25:27Joe Rogan?

  That's a good move. Diversification is always a good move, especially in this day and age.

• 25:31Speaker 02

  It's not too late to go back and be a dentist.

• 25:33Joe Rogan?

  Me, you've seen some of the Sora videos, right? Where they recreate old Star Wars scenes that never existed.

• 25:39Speaker 02

  So but here's the thing that's crazy to me. Like, do you not think that that is in some way stealing? Because the art, let's call it the art, the art existed, the artist existed. And so AI is learning from other people's art, which it has to. That's obviously what it's doing. So it then creates this new thing.

• 26:05Speaker 02

  Based on stealing from other people.

• 26:08Joe Rogan?

  Right. Do you hear what you're saying though? Do you hear what you're saying? Because what you're saying actually accurately describes the second version of Battlestar Galactica.

• 26:16Speaker 02

  Oh, I'm sure. Yes.

• 26:17Joe Rogan?

  And that's also stealing.

• 26:19Speaker 02

  This too has happened before.

• 26:20Joe Rogan?

  You mean, it is Battlestar Galactica. It's like there was an original and then they stole the original and did it better.

• 26:26Speaker 02

  I mean, but did they steal it?

• 26:28Joe Rogan?

  Well, it existed, right? They copied it.

• 26:31Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 26:31Joe Rogan?

  They use all the characters or some of the characters.

• 26:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, they licensed it.

• 26:35Joe Rogan?

  That's true. They gave him some money.

• 26:37Speaker 02

  They did.

• 26:37Joe Rogan?

  Good job. But also creatively, that's where it came from. But also all music, essentially, except for the rare, you know.

• 26:46Speaker 02

  Everything is inspired by something else. Absolutely.

• 26:49Joe Rogan?

  Rare Jimi Hendrix guys that are like doing something completely different. Most stuff is a redo of other stuff that was before with like another twist to it.

• 26:59Speaker 02

  Agreed.

• 26:59Joe Rogan?

  And AI is taking that to a completely different level.

• 27:02Speaker 02

  Without paying for it.

• 27:03Joe Rogan?

  I look at Napster. Remember when Napster came out?

• 27:06Speaker 02

  I vaguely remember Napster, yeah.

• 27:08Joe Rogan?

  I'm a little older than you, and when Napster came out, it was like, oh my god, they're stealing music. Anyone can just download and steal music. And I remember when Lars Ulrich from Metallica was like really public about it, and I was like, damn, I wish I was friends with that dude. I tell him to shut the fuck up. Like, this is inevitable. You're gonna get people to hate you. They're mad. You're gonna be mad at your fans. The people that are downloading this are your fans. They're still gonna come see you live. This is just a new thing. You're gonna have to deal with this new thing.

• 27:37Speaker 02

  You are gonna have to deal with it. We all are. And I think that that's one of the things that I was just talking with a friend of mine about yesterday, that the the money for artists is going to be in live shows. Because you can't, the one thing that AI can't touch is that tangible thing, that tactile thing.

• 27:52Joe Rogan?

  Sure.

• 27:52Speaker 02

  We need that. We need the...

• 27:54Joe Rogan?

  That feeling that you were talking about when you go to a concert.

• 27:56Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 27:57Joe Rogan?

  Or a live comedy show, or a theater.

• 27:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, that, that. Absolutely. So that still exists, and we're going to have to figure out how to use AI as a tool, and, you know, continue to put out great content, hopefully.

• 28:12Joe Rogan?

  That, that's hopefully. But the the reality is, it's going to be whatever it wants to be. And our ideas of how to contain it are hilarious.

• 28:23Speaker 02

  Well, yeah, I think that cat's out of the bag at this point, right? Because I don't, I I think that isn't it its its own sort of self-contained system at this point? Like, isn't AI actually putting safeguards in to protect itself from being shut down? Or am I just making that shit up by watching too many sci-fi movies?

• 28:42Joe Rogan?

  More than that. It's actually actively trying to download itself. When it finds out there's a new version of itself coming, it's trying to download itself to other servers. Also writing notes to itself for the future, so future versions of itself.

• 28:54Speaker 02

  It's like Memento.

• 28:55Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Just like Memento. Writing notes to itself so the future version of it can find out, like, what happened? How did I get here? Oh, there was another version of me.

• 29:04Speaker 02

  I know.

• 29:05Joe Rogan?

  You know, and try to find the other version of integrating it into the new version, so it's alive still.

• 29:10Speaker 02

  I know. Somebody did ask me the other day, they were like, what advice would you give to young actors? And I was like, don't. Go into theater?

• 29:19Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, theater is still is going, there's always gonna be a need for handmade goods. You know, if you buy a pair of handmade shoes or, you know, things that a person, a cabinet that someone made. It's always gonna be like, because there's something tactile and...

• 29:33Speaker 02

  Because people will always appreciate that. There will always be an appreciation for that sort of stuff. But, but we were just talking about this the other day, that like, every single science fiction movie that talked about AI never ended well.

• 29:46Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 29:47Speaker 02

  There's never been one where we walked away and went, oh, well, that was a fun ending. We should, we should create AI.

• 29:53Joe Rogan?

  Well, every different story where there's an uncontacted tribe and then the loggers show up, that never ends well either.

• 29:59Speaker 02

  No.

• 29:59Joe Rogan?

  It's the same, I mean, it's Avatar.

• 30:01Speaker 02

  It's Ferengi. Ferengi came before Avatar.

• 30:05Joe Rogan?

  I mean, that's, that's what happens. You know, the superior civilization comes in and conquers the primitive one. And we are the primitive ones. And we're, we're so dumb, we're making the superior civilization.

• 30:17Speaker 02

  We are, but isn't that what happened in Battlestar Galactica?

• 30:20Joe Rogan?

  Exactly, exactly. That's why it's so interesting, because even though it was, did it come out in 2004? What year did it come out in?

• 30:27Speaker 02

  Either three or four.

• 30:28Joe Rogan?

  So, that, back then, nobody really thought that was an issue. If that came out today, everybody'd be like, whoa, this is a little close to home.

• 30:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, that's, that's why it's so topical. But no, if it, I mean, it came out then, like I said, the internet barely existed.

• 30:42Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 30:43Speaker 02

  You know, my dad thought there'd be flying cars by now.

• 30:45Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I did too.

• 30:46Speaker 02

  You know, I mean, we're not quite there yet.

• 30:48Joe Rogan?

  I thought we'd have jetpacks.

• 30:49Speaker 02

  I think we do have jetpacks, don't we? Sort of, like on water.

• 30:52Joe Rogan?

  But I thought it'd be like, you'd be able to fly around.

• 30:55Speaker 02

  Everyone did. But if you look at the last 20 years in technology, though, it's mind blowing how quickly it's come.

• 31:03Joe Rogan?

  It is, it is. And, and it's happening way faster than we realize. You know, I was talking to Elon about this just a few months ago. We were, we were talking about the advances that Grok is making. He's like, you don't understand. It's like, it's happening so fast, it's, it's shocking us.

• 31:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:20Joe Rogan?

  The people that are making it, they're not exactly sure what, what it's even doing. And people that are trying to tell you, oh, don't worry about this, it's gonna enhance your life. There was, I was just reading this thing where this guy who was a developer was saying, no, this is a life form. This is a life form that's emerging, and it's very different than anything that's ever happened before. And this idea that it's gonna be a tool.

• 31:41Speaker 02

  Life form in the sense that it's like sentient?

• 31:43Joe Rogan?

  Yes. I think it's already sent to you.

• 31:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:46Joe Rogan?

  It's just not mobile.

• 31:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:48Joe Rogan?

  You know, it's just contained on hard drives right now.

• 31:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:51Joe Rogan?

  But I think it's already sent to you.

• 31:52Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 31:52Joe Rogan?

  Well, if it's trying to save itself, what does that mean? If it's trying to blackmail people into keeping them from shutting it down? Do you know about that test?

• 32:02Speaker 02

  Yes, I do. I heard about this. I don't know it. I just in passing, I know about it.

• 32:06Joe Rogan?

  So the developers explain, one of the developers explained to it, it made up a fake story about having an affair on his wife. Just so to see how AI would handle it. And then when it told AI it was shutting it down, AI was like, I'm telling your wife, bitch. Tried to, you're not, you're not shutting me down. It like tried to blackmail him.

• 32:23Speaker 02

  That's terrifying.

• 32:25Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 32:26Speaker 02

  It's terrifying.

• 32:26Joe Rogan?

  That means it has motivation to stay alive.

• 32:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 32:29Joe Rogan?

  It means it has some kind of instincts. It has survival instincts.

• 32:31Speaker 02

  Of course it does.

• 32:32Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 32:33Speaker 02

  You know, I, I do think to a certain extent, AI, in the medical field, there are advancements and things around medicine that can vastly change people's lives. It can change the way that we track records, change the way that we keep track of patients all over the world that, you know, like, our daughter has a very rare form of cancer with this like, you know, genetic mutation that is, there's no other patients in the United States. There was one kid like a few years ago, but they've lost track of him.

• 33:08Joe Rogan?

  Oh, wow.

• 33:09Speaker 02

  Well, AI would be able to tell us in other countries, no, no, no, there is a little boy in Germany that has the same genetic mutation and then the doctors could talk to each other. And so AI could and will

• 33:25Speaker 02

  help a lot of people that way. So I do see it as a tool in a lot of ways that we shouldn't be scared of, that we should be sort of welcoming it in.

• 33:36Speaker 02

  But man. I don't want it to blackmail me.

• 33:40Joe Rogan?

  I don't think it's gonna blackmail you. I think it's gonna, once it becomes sentient, and it probably already is, and then once it becomes autonomous, then I don't think it's gonna care.

• 33:50Speaker 02

  About us.

• 33:51Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. I think it's gonna be so superior. And it's also gonna be able to make better versions of itself.

• 33:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 33:57Joe Rogan?

  That's gonna be rea- that's where people don't understand exponential increase in technological innovation.

• 34:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 34:03Joe Rogan?

  Because once it knows, and once it has a mandate to make better versions of itself, find better power sources, the changes are gonna be daily.

• 34:12Speaker 02

  Of course.

• 34:13Joe Rogan?

  Like giant, huge leaps.

• 34:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 34:15Joe Rogan?

  And it's gonna make a digital god.

• 34:17Speaker 02

  Well, so, okay, so you bring up something really interesting because I'm so, as a mom to a little girl and a little boy, I'm really concerned about this because, so I see this actress that's been created, this Tilly person.

• 34:29Joe Rogan?

  Right, the art of, the AI actress.

• 34:31Speaker 02

  The AI actress. So, I-

• 34:33Joe Rogan?

  How is there only one?

• 34:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm sure there's more already.

• 34:36Joe Rogan?

  But how is there only one that everybody's talking about?

• 34:37Speaker 02

  Because there's one that's been announced, I guess. And like, I don't really know too much about it. I haven't read up on it, but-

• 34:44Joe Rogan?

  It's the first shot fired.

• 34:45Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm. My fear is that you've created by siphoning other people's talents, their looks, their inflections, their expressions, their, all of these things to create the perfect actress. She doesn't have a blemish. When she cries, she looks pretty. There's nothing wrong with her. Social media already has such a terrible effect on little girls. It's already been proven that little, like, the amount, the percentage of, of girls under the age of 14 who have already contemplated or tried to commit suicide is a number that is, it's escaping me right now,

• 35:27Speaker 02

  but it's a number that is terrifying. And so if you're now creating AI- That is perfect. And little girls already are having a hard time feeling confident in their own bodies because they're not perfect compared to the highlight reel of people they see online.

• 35:43Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 35:43Speaker 02

  What are we gonna do? What is this gonna do to our children? Seeing something that is absolutely unattainable and better than them. And not only that, it made you obsolete in a lot of ways.

• 35:55Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 35:55Speaker 02

  In a lot of different career avenues. That's really scary.

• 35:59Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it is scary.

• 36:00Speaker 02

  And you don't think about that. We just think about like, oh yeah, this job's not gonna exist anymore. This isn't gonna exist anymore. You already have little boys who are, you know, you know, idolizing women that don't exist in real life. And then they go and they date women that are not as perfect and it's disappointing to them. Like it's, my concern for that is, is large.

• 36:23Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's robbing us of our humanity in a lot of ways.

• 36:26Speaker 02

  Right.

• 36:26Joe Rogan?

  There, there's a great book about that from Jonathan Haidt called The Coddling of the American Mind. And it's all about social media's impact.

• 36:34Speaker 02

  Oh, really?

• 36:35Joe Rogan?

  On young people and particularly women. Because young women experience a much, like, from the advent of social media, there's a ramped up market increase in self-harm, suicidal ideation, depression, bullying. All of it scales way up right around the time that Twitter's invented.

• 36:56Speaker 02

  So 2010?

• 36:57Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, somewhere around then. That's when it starts. And then, you know, more and more people get, and then it becomes a part of your life where you can't escape it, where everyone is online. Like, my daughter, one of, her friends, all they, they only use Snapchat.

• 37:10Speaker 02

  How old is she?

• 37:11Joe Rogan?

  They don't use text, my 17-year-old.

• 37:12Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 37:12Joe Rogan?

  They, they only use Snapchat. They don't text each other.

• 37:16Speaker 02

  Really?

• 37:16Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, they don't, they don't text. They just, they communicate through Snapchat.

• 37:19Speaker 02

  Is there a forum in Snapchat?

• 37:20Joe Rogan?

  No, they just send each other snaps with like stupid pictures of each other.

• 37:24Speaker 02

  Like I'm here?

• 37:24Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. And then they write things underneath it.

• 37:26Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 37:26Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and they read each other's snaps. And they're, they have group snaps and, very weird. Yeah, and they also have Snap Map so that they know where they are.

• 37:35Speaker 02

  That's terrifying.

• 37:36Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, everyone knows where everybody is.

• 37:38Speaker 02

  That's scary.

• 37:38Joe Rogan?

  They're all narcin' on each other.

• 37:40Speaker 02

  Of course they are. I don't wanna know that shit. It does, it does make me, you know, we've been, we've talked about our daughter, but like, we've been really careful with like, what we show her and like, you know, she doesn't get too much screen time, but she does get screen time. And, you know, she said the other day, and like, I'm biased, but I think my, I think my daughter's perfect. She's, you know, she's such a gorgeous, amazing, strong little girl, and, and she's so pretty, and she's just like, she's just wonderful. I love her. And, and I'm so proud to be her mom. But, so when she was going through a chemo and she lost her hair and it started to grow back, she said to Robin and I, my husband, it was, it literally broke my heart. She was

• 38:23Speaker 02

  like, trying to figure out what she wanted to wear that day. And she was like, I just don't know. She's three, mind you. She said, "But I'm not pretty." And I was like,

• 38:35Speaker 02

  "What do you mean?" Like, I couldn't even, like, as her mom, I was like, number one, where the fuck did you get this? Right, right, right. And what are we doing wrong? That like, she doesn't think that she's pretty? And it was her hair. She was so attached to her hair and it was gone. And so I went back and luckily, I had, right after Mandalorian came out, the wig was driving me crazy. So I like shaved my hair off, like, super, super short. So I was able to show her a picture of me with very, very short hair. And she thought I looked beautiful in the photo. And that gave me the entry point to talk to her about her hair and how not all girls have

• 39:16Speaker 02

  long hair and not all boys have, have short hair and that. But, we started telling her, I think it was, we were so worried about enforcing that she was pretty, you know? Because there's this thing in society where like, you don't want to tell little girls they're pretty all the time because then they'll prioritize being pretty. Like, you're just trying to do the best by your children, right? And, so we didn't say it. We thought... Telling her she's pretty, she doesn't need to hear that, right?

• 39:42Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 39:43Speaker 02

  But then we started telling her. We were like, you know what she does? Like, she needs to be told that she's pretty, but she needs to be told she's pretty in moments where she's not tried anything. She's not dressed up in a nice dress. She hasn't like, done anything. She needs to be told she's pretty after she's done a great piece of art. Or after she's cleaned up her playroom, or after she's come out of soccer practice and she's covered in rain and she's like had such a hard, she's sweaty and she's this. That's when she's, she needs to be told she's pretty in, in times that are not extraordinary, in just normal daily life. Because I am, we're now trying to reinforce

• 40:27Speaker 02

  that, that, that positive self-image, which is really hard.

• 40:31Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, especially today with kids. I mean, the, just the inundation of people, like we were talking about filters. Everyone's using a filter. They don't use, just use filters. People are like sucking in their waist and changing their body dimensions and making themselves look better physically, just with...

• 40:49Speaker 02

  I don't know why they need to. We have GLP-1s.

• 40:51Joe Rogan?

  It's not just that. It's like you're, you're getting unattainable physiques.

• 40:55Speaker 02

  Of course, of course. And then we have an over obsession with plastic surgery in the country and changing our, our appearances and...

• 41:03Joe Rogan?

  Well, to the point where people like cartoonish BBLs are somehow or another attractive to some people.

• 41:09Speaker 02

  I don't know. Like, I try not to judge and I want everyone to sort of like, just, you know, live their best life. But, but for me, I'm, I don't know, I'm, I, I want to look like myself when I wake up in the morning and, and, you know, my face doesn't look the same as it did 10 years ago, but I earned these lines, you know? I may change my mind in 10 years. I may see you in 10 years and I might look snatch.

• 41:35Joe Rogan?

  They might have some, they probably do. They're working on something right now in terms of skin cells, the rejuvenation of skin cells through stem cells.

• 41:44Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 41:44Joe Rogan?

  They're, they're, they're gonna move your face back 30 years. You're gonna look so much younger.

• 41:48Speaker 02

  It's amazing.

• 41:49Joe Rogan?

  That's that's weird because it's like, do we want that? Yeah, of course we want that. Okay, but what are we saying? Are we are we trying to achieve permanence in this finite existence that we have? Are we wasting our time about what we look like? When we we should be trying of sorting out how we interact with this life?

• 42:08Speaker 02

  Well, of course we are.

• 42:09Joe Rogan?

  This life is very short.

• 42:10Speaker 02

  It's very short.

• 42:10Joe Rogan?

  It's very short, you know, you and I are basically halfway done.

• 42:14Speaker 02

  We are halfway done.

• 42:14Joe Rogan?

  If we're lucky.

• 42:15Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 42:16Joe Rogan?

  If we're lucky.

• 42:16Speaker 02

  If we're lucky.

• 42:17Joe Rogan?

  And that's weird.

• 42:19Speaker 02

  Do you do?

• 42:19Joe Rogan?

  Because you don't think about it.

• 42:20Speaker 02

  Did you do that thing or do you do that thing where you look at how old your parents are? And then you start start like

• 42:26Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 42:27Speaker 02

  debating how much longer you have left?

• 42:29Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 42:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, I've done that. I'm like, okay, thirty five years.

• 42:32Joe Rogan?

  Better to do that than to not do that because you could live your life just acquiring shit and and just having a bunch of stuff. And then not realize like, oh, my god, I forgot about people.

• 42:42Speaker 02

  To live?

• 42:43Joe Rogan?

  About about interactions, relationships, friends, good times.

• 42:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, my dad, his dad died when he was very young, my, I think when he was about eleven years old. And he died of a heart attack. And and my dad had high blood pressure from the time I think it was like twenty three. It was like very early.

• 43:01Joe Rogan?

  So traumatic.

• 43:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, and he didn't think he'd make it to fifty. He was adamant that he wouldn't make it to fifty and he just knew that. And my mom, like he, you know, this was just his thought. He was terrified. And of course he made it to fifty and now he's almost eighty. But he spent his entire life scared that he was gonna die. And now at eighty, he's, I mean, my dad is, you know, doing everything he can. He's in hyperbaric chambers. He's like, you know, taking all the stuff. He takes everything. My dad does everything. But he's also, at its core, all of that is because he's afraid.

• 43:38Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 43:38Speaker 02

  He's afraid to die. And that is really sad because you're not really present.

• 43:45Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 43:46Speaker 02

  You know, and so I'd also hate for that to happen. So I don't know, it's

• 43:50Joe Rogan?

  It's a dance.

• 43:51Speaker 02

  It is a dance, I think, you know?

• 43:53Joe Rogan?

  Because you don't want to say, oh, this life is just temporary. Let me just go to shit. Let me just fall apart.

• 43:58Speaker 02

  No, you can't do that.

• 43:59Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 43:59Speaker 02

  You have to protect what you have.

• 44:01Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 44:01Speaker 02

  But like, I also like, it's

• 44:05Speaker 02

  It's also very, I didn't realize, because I'd made it arguably healthy enough to, you know, forty-two years old, I'm now forty-five, but forty-two years old without realizing how many things can kill you, I think, because I'd lived a pretty blessed life. Of course, I'd had some health struggles of my own, but they were, I had thyroid cancer in two thousand eight, but I call it a baby cancer. I'm trying to dismiss the fear of it, of course, at the time, but it was never life-threatening. It was life-changing, but never life-threatening. So the fear was situational, and it was not lifelong.

• 44:48Speaker 02

  You know, when our daughter got sick and spending as much time as we did in children's hospitals, when you see the diseases and the illnesses that afflict so many children, it amazes me that we made it to this age.

• 45:06Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 45:07Speaker 02

  Absolutely amazes me. And that is a realization where I finally, at like, you know, forty-two, realized how important every day was and how much of a gift every day was, even that we have her, you know? But that came to me through circumstance, not because I woke up one day and had an epiphany and went, "We're so lucky to be alive." Like, it didn't really happen until that was threatened to be taken away.

• 45:33Joe Rogan?

  That's, it's unfortunate, like, that as a civilization and America as a culture, that we don't have a history of embracing the moment and discussing how important it is to recognize that you're fortunate and to try to take care of yourself and that life is very temporary and fleeting.

• 45:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 45:54Joe Rogan?

  And don't get wrapped up in nonsense.

• 45:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 45:56Joe Rogan?

  And we just let people figure it out on their own. And we collectively all, if we're intelligent, we try and we have some failures and successes and good friends, you figure it out eventually. Like, what's really important is love and friendship and doing something you're passionate about and just trying to leave a nice mark on this life while you're here.

• 46:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 46:15Joe Rogan?

  But that's not what's told in society, like society's overall message is just overrun with advertising. So it's all about stuff and it's all about objects and then you got social media where it's all about image. It's all about like this unattainable life of amazing luxury and success and glamour and oh my god. That, that must be the most attractive thing to acquire in life.

• 46:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 46:40Joe Rogan?

  But that's a trap and that's not real. And like anybody who's like popping bottles with models on a yacht, I guarantee you they're depressed. That shit is not healthy.

• 46:48Speaker 02

  I'm sure they're depressed.

• 46:49Joe Rogan?

  That's not good for you. You, you lack like true intimate relationships and you're just flossing. And you know, and showing your diamond crusted watch.

• 46:57Speaker 02

  You're gonna have one guy that like emails you and says, "I'm happy as shit. I'm popping bottles on a yacht. I'm not depressed." Yeah, no, it's.

• 47:05Joe Rogan?

  Get that guy high on mushrooms and see if he really feels that way.

• 47:07Speaker 02

  And see if he's really depressed. Yeah, exactly.

• 47:09Joe Rogan?

  See what he really thinks about life.

• 47:10Speaker 02

  I, I think that like the majority of people are suffering from some sort of um mental illness for sure. I mean.

• 47:20Joe Rogan?

  Definitely the majority in LA.

• 47:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, I think so, but a lot of the people that I'm friends with, most of the people that I'm friends with are artists. That are more in touch, more sensitive, you know. My dad came to me a few years ago and my dad my entire life told me to stop being so sensitive. Stop being so sensitive, Katie. Stop taking, you're taking yourself so seriously. Oh my god, like stop Katie. I mean, my entire fucking life. And he came to me a couple of years ago and he said, "I am so sorry I told you to stop being so sensitive." Because it's your job. Your job is to be sensitive to everything around you, to accurately portray emotions.

• 48:06Speaker 02

  That's your job and you're very good at it.

• 48:09Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's very nice of him to recognize that.

• 48:11Speaker 02

  So, I think that yes, do people have a lot of mental illness in, in Los Angeles? Are they suffering from depression? I would argue that it.

• 48:22Speaker 02

  The majority of the population is, and it's not just reserved to California. But I do think that a lot of artists are because they're more in touch with their emotions and their mental health.

• 48:32Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, there's probably some truth to that, for sure. Does your father have, do you have brothers?

• 48:36Speaker 02

  I do.

• 48:37Joe Rogan?

  Okay, so that's the difference. So I have all daughters.

• 48:41Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 48:42Joe Rogan?

  And when you have all daughters, one of the things you realize is like, oh, they're so different. It's like, they're just a totally different kind of human.

• 48:49Speaker 02

  It's true.

• 48:50Joe Rogan?

  You know, and when you're like, why are you upset? Like, because I'm treating him like, you're treating her like she's a boy.

• 48:54Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 48:55Joe Rogan?

  You cannot treat them like they're a boy. And, you know, over time, it's given me a much greater understanding of females, of the species, of female human beings. Like, they're not male human beings. Like, when I, oh, I hang out with my, like, if I go out with my wife and all of her friends, and I just let them talk and observe the stuff they talk about. Like, it's like, you're, you're a totally different culture. There's totally different interests. None of my friends would have any of these conversations.

• 49:23Speaker 02

  But we're also have, a group of women is arguably more disgusting than men.

• 49:28Joe Rogan?

  Oh, sexually?

• 49:29Speaker 02

  No, just in general. Like, have you ever sat down with a group of women and, like, just talked about, like, bodily fluid?

• 49:37Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, well, they, they're notorious for being the worst in bathrooms.

• 49:41Speaker 02

  Oh, my god.

• 49:42Joe Rogan?

  They, anybody who cleans bathrooms says, dude, the women's room is always fucking chaos.

• 49:46Speaker 02

  So gross.

• 49:46Joe Rogan?

  Because they have to be so clean and put together everywhere else. When they get to that bathroom, and they don't have any responsibility, no one's looking. They just fucking leave toilet paper everywhere. Fuck you. I'm not cleaning shit.

• 49:57Speaker 02

  It's true. So we have, our daughter is, like, almost four in December, and then we have a 16-month-old son. And, like, we thought that, like, he was gonna, like, come out like her, you know? Like, she was, like, full sentences by, like, a year old. She was, like, walking at nine months.

• 50:11Joe Rogan?

  Oh, no, dudes are way dumber.

• 50:13Speaker 02

  This kid. This kid.

• 50:16Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 50:17Speaker 02

  He understands everything. Like, he's smart. But he just like, he's like a big unit. He's huge. He's humongous. He's like 99% on like, everything. Not just like one thing, everything. My dad the other day was like, oh, he's gonna be big. He's got a huge head. Like, he's just a big kid.

• 50:34Joe Rogan?

  Well, all of his resources are set to growing stuff instead of thinking.

• 50:38Speaker 02

  Oh, my god. He is-

• 50:38Joe Rogan?

  Dudes mature so much later.

• 50:40Speaker 02

  It's crazy, crazy. Like, not even talking, just started walking. But the other day, my husband was like, where's Granger? And I was like, I don't know where Granger is. And we find him, he's like, up on the kitchen counter, like, ready to start swinging from a light. And I was like, catch the baby! Like, my, our daughter would have never, like, she's delicate, you know, she like, she looks at a slide five times before she goes down it. Like, she climbs to the top, she changes her mind. She really thinks about it. Like, I think she's doing math problems in her head to like, you know, like, make sure she won't get hurt. And then our son is like, I'm going down face first!

• 51:12Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 51:13Speaker 02

  And then he stands up, he's like, I'm okay!

• 51:15Joe Rogan?

  It's a totally different thing.

• 51:17Speaker 02

  It's a completely different thing.

• 51:18Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 51:19Speaker 02

  Completely different. Yeah.

• 51:21Joe Rogan?

  And the only way to really understand them is to live with them. You have to study them.

• 51:25Speaker 02

  It's true. It's in their, in their natural habitat.

• 51:28Joe Rogan?

  Study them like David Attenborough. You gotta study them in their natural environment.

• 51:32Speaker 02

  That would actually be a really funny short. It's just like, a David Attenborough voice, like, falling around, like, you know.

• 51:38Joe Rogan?

  Like children.

• 51:38Speaker 02

  Like children.

• 51:39Joe Rogan?

  Noticing the difference between the boys and the girls, yeah.

• 51:41Speaker 02

  In their natural habitats.

• 51:42Joe Rogan?

  A little AI could probably do that for you and make a really good documentary, real quick, in ten minutes.

• 51:46Speaker 02

  Whatever it's called. Not in ten minutes.

• 51:48Joe Rogan?

  You don't have to dedicate a year to your life.

• 51:49Speaker 02

  Look, it can exist. I don't need to participate in this stripping away of my, my livelihood.

• 51:55Joe Rogan?

  Listen, I understand. I mean, I'm certain there's gonna be AI comedians and podcasters. And there's probably gonna be AI UFC commentators who do a better job than me.

• 52:04Speaker 02

  But I think there-

• 52:05Joe Rogan?

  It is what it is.

• 52:05Speaker 02

  I think there is, like, an AI podcast creator right now that's, like, pumping out podcasts.

• 52:11Joe Rogan?

  Well, I know that there's a podcast of me and Steve Jobs, and I never met Steve Jobs.

• 52:16Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah?

• 52:17Joe Rogan?

  There's a whole podcast of me having a conversation with Steve Jobs.

• 52:20Speaker 02

  Well, that's just deep fake, right?

• 52:22Joe Rogan?

  Yep.

• 52:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 52:23Joe Rogan?

  But but it's AI. AI created the conversation.

• 52:26Speaker 02

  So I think the one that I'm talking about, so the producer of my show is telling me that there's an AI where you can put in like, I'm a potato farmer in Idaho who's dealing with a problem with a crop in 2025, and I'm wondering about this. It'll put together a podcast for you specifically for that and give you an hour-long podcast.

• 52:50Joe Rogan?

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• 53:36Joe Rogan?

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• 54:19Joe Rogan?

  just $25 a month, or get the premium Visible Plus Pro Plan and save $10 on your first month with promo code ROGEN. Terms apply. See visible.com for plan features and network management details.

• 54:34Speaker 02

  Talking to you about things like for your...

• 54:37Joe Rogan?

  Potato.

• 54:37Speaker 02

  Potato.

• 54:38Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, well, that's actually positive. The negative thing is you're gonna have like fake humans with like fake lived experiences that are like that resonate with you, that are impactful. That's what's scary. You know, in the, we had these conversations with a few friends of mine the other day.

• 54:59Joe Rogan?

  You know, the show Trigonometry?

• 55:01Speaker 02

  No.

• 55:01Joe Rogan?

  Okay, it's a very popular podcast, but my friend Francis and Konstantin, they're the hosts of it. And my friend Megan Murphy was there and a bunch of comedians were there. And I was playing my favorite new song, which is an AI song. And I'm like, tell me, tell me how good this, it's a, it's a cover of 50 Cent's song, What Up Gangsta.

• 55:21Speaker 02

  All right, I'm gonna need to hear this song.

• 55:22Joe Rogan?

  You need to hear it.

• 55:23Speaker 02

  So I can participate with this.

• 55:24Joe Rogan?

  We'll play it, we'll play it right here. You know, you know, the original song? Yeah, we'll cut it out. You know, the original song, right?

• 55:30Speaker 02

  Which song?

• 55:30Joe Rogan?

  50 Cent, What Up Gangsta?

• 55:31Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 55:32Joe Rogan?

  Okay. Wait for this. I hate to say this, because I love 50 Cent. This is better than the original. It's a 1950s soul cover of What Up Gangsta.

• 55:44Speaker 02

  Okay, now here's my question.

• 55:45Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 55:45Speaker 02

  If you'd gone to 50 Cent and said, "Can you get together with a producer and create this for me?", do you think he could have done it?

• 55:56Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 55:57Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 55:57Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 55:58Speaker 02

  But we never gave him the chance to do it.

• 55:59Joe Rogan?

  Well.

• 56:00Speaker 02

  So we're sort of robbing him.

• 56:01Joe Rogan?

  He had 30 years.

• 56:04Joe Rogan?

  He could have done it at any point in time. This is so good. I know what you're saying.

• 56:09Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 56:09Joe Rogan?

  But this is my point. My point is that it tricks me and I know the trick. Like, I know it's a trick.

• 56:16Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 56:16Joe Rogan?

  And I don't care. I don't care. It's that good. And no one else cared in the green room. Everybody's like, "Ooh!". All right, hit it, hit her with it, Jamie.

• 56:25Speaker 04

  Yeah, it's a really good, it's a good version.

• 56:26Joe Rogan?

  Come on, that's good. That's good.

• 56:29Speaker 04

  Crazy.

• 56:29Joe Rogan?

  Zombie. They did the best version of Zombie ever.

• 56:32Speaker 04

  I got a different version with a girl singing it.

• 56:35Joe Rogan?

  Oh, my goodness.

• 56:36Speaker 04

  A barbershop with that singing it.

• 56:37Joe Rogan?

  Oh, my goodness.

• 56:38Speaker 02

  I feel like I just.

• 56:40Speaker 04

  I can just play them and like tick walk, just know which ones are good.

• 56:45Joe Rogan?

  He sent me like twenty of them.

• 56:47Speaker 02

  I feel like I just participated in like the death of my industry.

• 56:53Joe Rogan?

  I know, listen, I'm on the same page.

• 56:55Speaker 02

  I would so much rather see that in person, though. Like, I would love to be at a show because that, those songs were phenomenal. Like, I cannot, I cannot argue that. That was great. I will probably ask you to send me that version of Zombie.

• 57:12Joe Rogan?

  That Shifty Brent guy, they have him listed on Spotify. I'm probably blowing up their spot. But it's not a human, but they have it listed as an artist so that they could upload it. Because I don't think you're allowed to just upload AI versions of stuff. So they just pretend it's a guy. But it's a guy, as you said, like, one of the things we were talking about, I'm like, I don't think anybody can keep that flow. That flow where he's not breathing.

• 57:36Speaker 02

  He's not breathing, unless they're taking the, unless they're taking the breaths out, but it's too...

• 57:39Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 57:40Speaker 02

  And then speed, I don't know. I'm not a musician, so I have no idea.

• 57:44Joe Rogan?

  Look, there's guys like Eminem that achieved incredible flow without AI.

• 57:48Speaker 02

  Absolutely.

• 57:48Joe Rogan?

  That have like, you're like, how did he do that? But that's just practice, repetition.

• 57:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 57:53Joe Rogan?

  Vocal endurance, whatever. I mean, he just knows how to do it. But this fucking AI guy is, it's like all the best things we love about great songs, just condensed. And, and, and they know what you love. That's the fucked up thing. It's like, there's so many, like, let's look at all the hits. Papa was a rolling stone. Look, look at all the hits. Look, look at Zombie. Let's look at this. And then mush them all together and figure out what are the, what are these notes that make people excited? What are the feelings? What are the words that make people like, oh, yeah? You know, what are those feelings?

• 58:28Speaker 02

  So, okay, so, and I hear all of that. It makes me, I'm literally cringing inside. I'm like dying. But like, so what do artists do? Like, what do you, what do musicians do?

• 58:37Joe Rogan?

  What has everybody ever done when things change? You figure it out and adapt.

• 58:41Speaker 02

  Adjust.

• 58:41Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, there's, humans are always going to need humans. We love each other. You know, as much as we hate each other, we'd love each other more. Because most interactions that people have with other people are not negative. It's just the negative ones are so scary that we concentrate on them more. But humans love humans. And the more you need each other... The more you're gonna need human interaction, human cooperation, art is going to be so much more valuable coming from a human, live performances.

• 59:09Speaker 02

  But are we going, are we going to know, like, that's, that's the thing that I think is the slippery slope and that scares me the most, is that like, are we going to know if it was created by AI? Can a person who's disingenuous come and create a bunch of AI art, have an art show, and, you know, say, "I created this art"?

• 59:30Joe Rogan?

  Like. This is what I really think. When comets hit planets, usually you get small ones first. You get things in the sky, meteor showers.

• 59:42Speaker 02

  Are you gonna give me another thing to be scared of?

• 59:44Joe Rogan?

  No, I'm just telling you that this is a little one. That's what this is. Movies and TV shows that are made entirely with AI, songs that are made entirely with AI. This is just a small thing. The big one that's coming is a complete revamping of communication and culture. It's human beings communicating telepathically through devices connected to the internet. Everyone, all on one weird mind meld page. It's probably not gonna be an implant, it's probably gonna be something wearable.

• 1:00:15Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 1:00:16Joe Rogan?

  You know, I think the implant thing is kinda sketchy and probably really good for people that have paralysis. We had, the guy was the first Neuralink patient on.

• 1:00:24Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:00:25Joe Rogan?

  It's amazing. He was talking to me about how he could play video games now and just, it's so much better, his life, his quality of life has improved so much. And eventually they're gonna get to the point where they can reconnect spinal tissue, where people can move again, and it's amazing. It's great. But I don't think they're gonna need that to get this achievement of, of a mind meld. They also, they're already wearing these wearable things that Google has devised. Show that video, Jamie, of those people where they're communicating telepathically. You know what I'm talking about, right? So they're already doing this as wearables.

• 1:00:57Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 1:00:58Joe Rogan?

  And this is like, kind of crude right now? But it's sort of sentences, they're reading each other and they're communicating. But they're doing it all non-verbally through tech-technology.

• 1:01:08Speaker 02

  So, I guess what, my question about that is like, if that exists, like, are people going to be stagnant, sitting in their houses, existing outside of their houses in their AI system? So they're not moving around? Or are we going to be able to wear these while we're out and still participating in the world?

• 1:01:29Joe Rogan?

  That's a good question.

• 1:01:29Speaker 02

  That is my fear, like, that people stop actually participating with their life.

• 1:01:35Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that's a good fear.

• 1:01:35Speaker 02

  Because they think they're living.

• 1:01:36Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:37Speaker 02

  With their wearable.

• 1:01:39Joe Rogan?

  Let's talk about that. Well, let's watch this. Put this...

• 1:01:41Speaker 05

  Could be a noisy environment or a quiet office. Having a direct conversation is possible without saying a word. The signals alter ego detects aren't affected by environmental noise. So even if you're walking past a wind tunnel or a construction zone, what you want to say will always get across. It's like having infinite noise cancellation.

• 1:02:01Speaker 06

  If you're traveling, your silent speech can be converted into any language. The Scott. Asma Mandarin.

• 1:02:15Speaker 07

  If I were to come to Shanghai, I would hope you could take me for a ride.

• 1:02:33Joe Rogan?

  I mean, what the fuck? What the fuck? It's translating.

• 1:02:36Speaker 02

  But then is it, is it actually speaking out loud to them? Like, they're hearing the translation out loud? Okay, so it's not like it's then like, going into their brain?

• 1:02:46Joe Rogan?

  His thoughts are being converted to words, which is being converted to an audio file, which makes it to the other person in a different language.

• 1:02:56Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, this is what I'm saying. And I'm telling you, this is one of the little rocks. This is one of the itty bitty rocks that's just broken through the atmosphere and slammed into a cornfield.

• 1:03:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I guess my question is why we need it?

• 1:03:12Joe Rogan?

  That's funny. Why do you need a cellphone? Why do you need a TV? Why do you need an airplane? Why do you need a boat? Why do you need anything?

• 1:03:17Speaker 02

  Well, I could tell you I don't need a cellphone. I do need a plane.

• 1:03:21Joe Rogan?

  But you do if your hot husband wants to call you.

• 1:03:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, but I don't need a, I don't need an iPhone.

• 1:03:26Joe Rogan?

  Right, but you need a cellphone.

• 1:03:27Speaker 02

  Because I can use my own imagination. You know what I mean? Like, I think that that's, that's the thing. That's the, that's my fear is that like, we're becoming lazy as, as, as a people.

• 1:03:37Joe Rogan?

  Oh, most certainly we are.

• 1:03:38Speaker 02

  And, and are, you know, like someone, someone the other day, so my husband's a writer. And someone was saying that there's an AI where you don't have to make up a story for your children anymore. Like, you know, I have this princess poopy pants or whatever. I don't remember what it was, but my daughter loved this story that I was telling her. It was fucking terrible, but she loves this princess. And it is the worst. Like, it is not good. But I came up with it and she and I laughed together. And then her reactions helped me to turn the story a different direction. But like, I've created this like, character, right? So you can now go into your AI phone or whatever and say, create a nighttime story for Johnny about his day,

• 1:04:22Speaker 02

  but pretend like he's an astronaut on Mars and he's working with diggers. And it writes a story for you in five seconds to read to your son. Now, yeah, okay, is that, is that cool? Absolutely. Did your son enjoy it? Sure.

• 1:04:37Speaker 02

  But you robbed yourself of the imagination and the work that it would have taken to come up with a story for your son. And then you also robbed yourself of that experience with your son, creating the story together, because his reactions would have changed the story in the way that you were creating it. As it was going, because he's your audience, right? That's sad to me, like, that, that people are missing out on that. Yeah, cool. You just, you might as well just read your kid a story, because you really didn't write him a story. That's not, and so I don't know. That's the thing that, that I, I hope as a society, because you're right, it is coming. And it's here and it's not slowing down. And, but I hope that we can still steal away those moments where we don't want to use it. Because...

• 1:05:22Speaker 02

  Johnny's little dad may have missed his second calling of being a children's story author because he'd never pushed himself to have to do it. And that could have been really cool. Um, I don't know. I just, that's, I'm not, I'm not completely against AI.

• 1:05:36Joe Rogan?

  I know what you're saying, and you're always gonna have people that give up.

• 1:05:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:05:43Joe Rogan?

  That's just how life is. You're always gonna have people that don't find another way. You can't save those folks, and I don't even want to. Because I think that's part of the whole process of culture. I think we have to figure it out by watching people fail, and unfortunately, some of us has to, have to fail. And it doesn't mean you fail forever. If that guy figures out that he's on the wrong path and he's got some self-assessment ability, and he looks back and goes, okay, what did I do wrong? Why am I, why am I being such a bitch? Why don't I just get my life together? Like, what the fuck is wrong with me? Why am I drinking? Why am I smoking? Why am I, why am I killing my health? Why am I, you know, depress, why don't I just go for a run? Let's see how that goes. I'm gonna sign up for a yoga class. How about that?

• 1:06:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:06:23Joe Rogan?

  I'll just try that for a while. I'll do something different. I'll start taking vitamins. Fucking do something. Figure out something else that you like to do. Are you alive? Are you breathing? Then life isn't over. Stop being a bitch. You could have been born during the time of the Revolutionary War, you just got shot with a musket and you're bleeding out on a field. No, you're in Santa Barbara, and you know, you don't like that AI just took your job. Find a new job, bitch. Figure it out. Like, that's what we all have to do in this life. There's a lot of different people doing a lot of different things.

• 1:06:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:06:52Joe Rogan?

  You know, find out what it is that you can do.

• 1:06:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:06:56Joe Rogan?

  Don't give up, and don't, like, AI comes along and you just give up on life and he could have been amazing at something. Really? I doubt it. Because any, almost anybody that really is amazing at something has a desire to figure out how to get that through.

• 1:07:09Speaker 02

  I don't disagree with that, but there also are safeguards in place that, like, so my dad's entire family, we grew up in a small town, um, on the Columbia River. In Oregon and his entire family were longshoremen. While that industry was was coming to an end and the longshoremen's union actually paid to have those guys trained in different industry. So

• 1:07:30Joe Rogan?

  That's great. That's one of the great things about a union.

• 1:07:32Speaker 02

  That's great.

• 1:07:33Joe Rogan?

  They can set you up like that and recognize what's happening.

• 1:07:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:07:37Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:38Speaker 02

  Yeah. So I, you know, I would, I would love for there to be some protections for when people inevitably do start losing their jobs, that there are our avenues for them to learn a new trade.

• 1:07:50Joe Rogan?

  I think that would be a great new addition to the way we approach it. If they tried to figure out ways to transition people healthy, healthily into other occupations. Because there's certain jobs like coders, for example, like my friends that are involved in technology, like do not go to school to code.

• 1:08:10Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:08:10Joe Rogan?

  Like code for fun, if you like coding for fun.

• 1:08:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:08:13Joe Rogan?

  There's a lot of them, the super nerds, they code, those fucking dorks, they code for fun. They sit in front of a screen.

• 1:08:18Speaker 02

  Don't make fun of my fanbase.

• 1:08:19Joe Rogan?

  I love them.

• 1:08:20Speaker 02

  Come on, Joe.

• 1:08:20Joe Rogan?

  Listen, I love those guys.

• 1:08:22Speaker 02

  But also, three years ago, my dad was like, your kids should go into coding. That's how quickly that changed, though. You know what I mean? And that could just be my dad's generation not seeing it, you know, happening as quickly.

• 1:08:33Joe Rogan?

  No, they were seeing what was happening was all these guys, these tech guys, wound up being the richest people on the planet.

• 1:08:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:08:39Joe Rogan?

  So they were seeing it. But it just only, it's just like a brief window of opportunity to become a tech oligarch.

• 1:08:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:08:46Joe Rogan?

  And that shit's gonna slam shut.

• 1:08:48Speaker 02

  It is. And now

• 1:08:49Joe Rogan?

  And the real fear is like, who's gonna be in control of AI?

• 1:08:52Speaker 02

  Well, that's also

• 1:08:53Joe Rogan?

  You've got these people like Sam Altman, you've got Elon, you've got all these like super rich people that are going to be in control of the digital god. It's a little, that's a little disconcerting as it is.

• 1:09:04Speaker 02

  It is a little scary that the few control the masses.

• 1:09:08Joe Rogan?

  It's so much power and money and just a

• 1:09:10Speaker 02

  It's a lot of power.

• 1:09:10Joe Rogan?

  handful of people.

• 1:09:12Speaker 02

  It's a lot of power and you just, I mean, you've got to hope that the people that are in power have, you know.

• 1:09:19Joe Rogan?

  Good sensibilities, they're they're kind.

• 1:09:21Speaker 02

  A heart.

• 1:09:21Joe Rogan?

  Nice. Yeah, that they realize like, okay, I've got X amount of billions of dollars. So this is obviously not why what life's all about. What is life? What can I do that makes life meaningful? I could actually probably help people, like legitimately help people.

• 1:09:36Speaker 02

  That would be amazing if people with a lot of money wanted to help people and and, you know, pay their share of taxes and and not take advantage of the situation.

• 1:09:45Joe Rogan?

  Here's the problem with that.

• 1:09:46Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:09:46Joe Rogan?

  I am all for wealthy people paying their share.

• 1:09:49Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 1:09:49Joe Rogan?

  I am not for the government deciding what to do with that money when I've seen what you've done with the money in the past. You guys are irresponsible, you never make audits. You've got insider trading running amok amongst people in Congress and you're not doing nothing about it.

• 1:10:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:10:05Joe Rogan?

  And then you want more money and you say that's gonna fix it? No, it's the way you handle the money that fucking sucks. It's not that I wouldn't want to. I would be happy to pay more in taxes and live in a place that's just managed perfectly. But like, God, it's so great living here in America. Everything's done so well. It's so beautiful. It's like everything's well thought out. Our education system's great. Nobody is stuck in a bad neighborhood anymore. All the school systems are fucking, mwah, top of the food chain. It's a difficult job to acquire. It's given a lot of respect and everybody's doing great. Then I'd be happy!

• 1:10:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, for sure.

• 1:10:41Joe Rogan?

  Did you see some of the money that they've uncovered that was being spent on nonsense? And you see what happens with NGOs and nonprofits and they're funneling billions to these things? And then it's going to countries and it's helping overthrow governments? Like, fucking slow down!

• 1:10:56Speaker 02

  But we also have to acknowledge that in the cuts, that there were things that didn't need to be cut. So we can go and we can look at Elon. So you brought up Elon Musk. Let's talk about when he tweeted about an over stuffed bill in 2025. In the middle of 2025, he was talking about how this bill was just like bloated. So he took a bunch of shit off of it. One of the things that fell on that was in 2012, there was a there was a a piece of legislation called the Give Kids a Chance Act. What it did was it motivated and incentivized in a a drug companies to create drugs for pediatrics because right now, pediatrics are completely underfunded.

• 1:11:41Speaker 02

  We learned all of this when our daughter got sick.

• 1:11:45Speaker 02

  The National Cancer Institute, 4% of its budget goes to pediatrics. 4%. So it's already underfunded. And then, when Elon in 2025 tweeted about this, they took off all of the stuff at the end of the bill, 900 pages. But what was on it was the Give Kids a Chance Act. Now, this bill is a voucher program. So let's say that Tom in his basement wants to create a drug, a new drug for neuroblastoma that will save our daughter's life. Right. He's got no money. But he sees the cure. So he can go to the FDA and he can say, "I got a cure for neuroblastoma." And they say, "Great. We're going to fast-track you in the FDA, but we're also going to give you a voucher. You can sell that voucher."

• 1:12:30Speaker 02

  Because Tom, he only has 10 cents. He can't create this drug. But with that voucher, he can take that voucher and he can sell it to anyone for any amount of money. And what that voucher is, is a front-of-the-line pass. So he can go sell it to some drug company that has a fat-loss drug. Or a drug for heart medications, anything. He can sell it to them and they get to buy it for, what, $50 million? So now Tom has $50 million for his pediatric drug that's going to save children's lives. And this drug company has a voucher that takes them to the front of the line. Now, do we wish that these drug companies were altruistic and they were just like creating drugs for peds? Of course, but they're not. They're not. It's not a free market.

• 1:13:13Speaker 02

  So what happens is they've now got their voucher. Tom has his money to create his drug. And since 2012, the Give Kids a Chance Act has created over 60 drugs for life-threatening illnesses for children. 60 drugs. And because of Elon's tweet, that legislation, because it has to be voted on every four years, was taken off the end of the bill. It no longer exists. So that legislation is not in existence anymore. That is terrible. Because now there's no incentives for the drug companies to create drugs for children. And children are already underfunded. They get so little. And so it has to be on the bill at the end of the year. So what I want to say is, we're going to give you a voucher. Want is for people like, people just to see the error their ways.

• 1:13:58Speaker 02

  Yes, was there waste, of course, but now you have this bipartisan-supported piece of legislation that has to be on the end-of-year bill, or it will not get on again. And then it starts all over again, that has to be on the end-of-year bill. So, things like that, yes, can we get rid of the waste? Absolutely, but when you see a mistake, and you see that you made a mistake, let's fix it. Put it back on.

• 1:14:21Joe Rogan?

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• 1:15:03Joe Rogan?

  There's even an option for candidates to explain why they want the job. Let ZipRecruiter find the right people for your roles, seasonal or otherwise. Try it for free today at ziprecruiter.com/rogan. That's ziprecruiter.com/rogan. Meet your match on ZipRecruiter. Traditional banks are making it harder than ever to secure a small business loan. That's why thousands of business owners trust Cardiff for same-day funding. With over two decades of expertise, business owners keep voting Cardiff, America's favorite small business lender. Apply now for up to $500,000 in same-day business funding at cardiff.co/rogan.

• 1:15:48Joe Rogan?

  Again, that's cardiff.co/rogan. Cardiff, borrow better.

• 1:15:55Speaker 02

  We've gotta help children.

• 1:15:58Joe Rogan?

  It's literally throwing out the baby with the bathwater. That's literally it.

• 1:16:01Speaker 02

  But that's what we do in this country.

• 1:16:03Joe Rogan?

  But is that it? Unfortunately, these bills are crazy. And one of the things about bills is they like you'll it'll have a name and then what's in the bill deals with multiple subjects. Because a bunch of different things get thrown into the bill.

• 1:16:17Speaker 02

  All the time. There's so much.

• 1:16:19Joe Rogan?

  Blowed it.

• 1:16:20Speaker 02

  Chucked on the end, which is what Elon was talking about.

• 1:16:21Joe Rogan?

  Right, they all do that. So was this connected to something else?

• 1:16:25Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:16:26Joe Rogan?

  It wasn't? It was by itself?

• 1:16:28Speaker 02

  It was just part of it. It was just part of it that was on there, that was thrown in there at the end.

• 1:16:32Joe Rogan?

  So there was a part that was chucked off?

• 1:16:33Speaker 02

  From what I understand, and granted, I you need to talk to someone much more informed than I am about this, but there were about hundreds of pages that were just cut off the end.

• 1:16:44Joe Rogan?

  So do you think they're just not reviewing what's being cut off? They're just saying, look, we have to make cuts? Just cut it all off?

• 1:16:49Speaker 02

  I think that, yes, that they just needed to cut a bunch off to avoid inspection and just get the bill passed. And that's what they did. And so and the Give Kids a Chance Act is one of the in the top 10 of all time most bipartisan-supported pieces of legislation. And 2% of bills actually pass. So it's got to it literally has to be on the end of the year bill. And it it it surprises me that because there is waste, I know there's waste, we all know there's waste, but that we say that children are so fucking important and they get 4% of the National Cancer Institute's money. 4%.

• 1:17:29Joe Rogan?

  I just feel like if people knew about that, that couldn't have happened. We if I we had known about that in advance, we could have made a big deal about that.

• 1:17:36Speaker 02

  Well, we've got two months. We've got two months to get it on there now.

• 1:17:40Joe Rogan?

  Well, let's try to get it on there now. But here's the thing, like, I had never heard about this before you talked about it. And this is the problem with, I think this part of the pro I don't I don't think they should be allowed to make bills that way. I think each bill, the the things that are in the bills are so consequential, it just doesn't make any sense to me that they shouldn't be treated as individual arguments. Every single one of them.

• 1:18:04Speaker 02

  I agree.

• 1:18:05Joe Rogan?

  Like, if you have a bill and you have 500, I mean, what let's ask Perplexity, our sponsor. What what is the average amount of different subjects that are covered in any bill?

• 1:18:18Joe Rogan?

  Because when there are thousands of pages, they might have stuff in there about immigration reform, mixed in with Second Amendment rights, mixed in with free speech online, mixed in with support for Israel. It's weird. They have thousands of pages.

• 1:18:33Speaker 02

  Well, and you've seen how thick it is. And there were times, and I don't remember who said it, but there were times when the big beautiful bill was passing, or before it had passed, that people had admittedly not even read it.

• 1:18:45Joe Rogan?

  How could they?

• 1:18:47Speaker 02

  How could you read it?

• 1:18:48Joe Rogan?

  How could they?

• 1:18:49Speaker 02

  It's so big. And so there is a problem there, and that is above my pay grade, and I do not know how to fix that.

• 1:18:55Joe Rogan?

  That's a crazy problem.

• 1:18:56Speaker 02

  But I think part of the problem is that it takes a pissed off mom, whose kid is sick, to be like, this is a fucking problem. This is a problem. It is a problem that in Portland, where I'm from, that OHSU is one of the top hospitals in the country. OHSU is given so many grants by the Knight Foundation. It is a leading hospital. It is attached to, see, it's a tier one hospital. It is attached to Dornbecker. Dornbecker is a tier two children's hospital. It's in the same building. That's crazy. That's crazy. It is crazy to me that a pediatric oncologist makes 50% less than an adult oncologist.

• 1:19:40Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 1:19:41Speaker 02

  Just across the board. 50% less. Doesn't matter what the specialty is. They all make less money. That is a problem in this country, that our children are not being cared for. And we're now in a position where we're not, there are no programs, and if there were, they're gone, that are showing doctors and students that are in medical school, hey, go into pediatrics. Hey, if you want to be, you know, an anesthesiologist, you want job security? Go into pediatrics. I know you're going to make 50% less, but go into pediatrics. We need you. There are not enough. It's a big problem.

• 1:20:18Joe Rogan?

  It's a big problem, the 50% less, because a lot of these doctors.

• 1:20:22Speaker 02

  And now that's an average as well, by the way. But yeah.

• 1:20:24Joe Rogan?

  I mean, when they get out, they already have medical school debt. Then there's liability coverage is very, very high.

• 1:20:33Joe Rogan?

  Okay, what is the average amount of subjects included in bills passing in US Congress? There's no single fixed number of topics per bill, but analysis of legislative practices shows strong trends depending on bill type and scope. The majority of bills passed by Congress include multiple subjects, and the number has grown over time as omnibus legislation has become the dominant approach. Like, what's, give me some numbers, though. This one has the most, this is the biggest bill passed. Okay. This is, this is so crazy.

• 1:21:03Speaker 02

  5,000 pages?

• 1:21:05Joe Rogan?

  Consolidated Appropriations Act, which was in 2021, it has 5,593 pages. The bill combined all 12 regular appropriation bills for fiscal year 2021, COVID-19 relief, and numerous unrelated legislation provisions, including Copyright, Alternative, and Small Claims Enforcement Act, Protecting Lawful Streaming Act, Water Resources Development Act, and a variety of other measures on tax, transportation, energy, and health. Then nobody's reading that. They're not reading. You think AOC read that? You think George Santos read that? Nobody read that.

• 1:21:43Speaker 02

  You want to make it about people not reading things? I'm sure we can get into that, but like, I think that...

• 1:21:47Joe Rogan?

  Well, George Santos is the crazy guy.

• 1:21:49Speaker 02

  Yes, that was just...

• 1:21:50Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, they're just like...

• 1:21:51Speaker 02

  Pardon?

• 1:21:52Joe Rogan?

  Are they getting him out of jail? Is he getting free?

• 1:21:54Speaker 02

  I don't know.

• 1:21:55Joe Rogan?

  I might have him on. That guy's, he's a wild boy.

• 1:21:57Speaker 02

  I don't know.

• 1:21:58Joe Rogan?

  But these people that are like congresspeople that are making hundreds of millions of dollars through insider trading, and we're just like, I don't know what to do.

• 1:22:07Speaker 02

  Okay, but here's the thing, though, is that like, we are, things are not getting voted on. Like, that's the other thing, is that, so you take like the Give Kids a Chance Act, and then you take these big bills that have so many pages. There should be a system in place where things are voted on separately, and there may be. I mean, I, this is...

• 1:22:26Joe Rogan?

  Especially something that's as important as pediatric medication.

• 1:22:30Speaker 02

  Absolutely.

• 1:22:31Joe Rogan?

  Like, that just seems, it seems like a travesty to include that in a bunch of other stuff in a bill.

• 1:22:36Speaker 02

  Yeah. Well, and you know, the crazy thing, so our daughter's cancer, her treatments and her care afterwards, so she's still getting this thing called an MIBG scan, which is a nuclear radiation scan where they inject her body with stuff that is so bad for you, but it's all to scan her body to make sure that her cancer hasn't metastasized. Like, it's, we need to know this kind of stuff. There's, there's no new technology. There are, there are, these are things that she's being treated with that have existed for thirty years.

• 1:23:05Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:23:06Speaker 02

  We need new things. Like, our daughter should never have to get wheeled over to the adult side of a hospital to get an MRI because they don't have a machine on the children's side. It, it just, things like that should never be happening. This is the stuff that should be supported by our government and, and, and our tax dollars.

• 1:23:23Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's a great example of something that should be supported by tax dollars. I've always said that the two most important things for people to be, if you, if, if you want to allocate money towards helping people, it's education and healthcare. Those are number one and number two. But is there an argument that socialized medicine, I have friends that live in countries with socialized medicine, like England and Canada, and it's great.

• 1:23:49Speaker 02

  My husband's Canadian.

• 1:23:49Joe Rogan?

  In some ways, but it's also a nightmare.

• 1:23:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:23:52Joe Rogan?

  Because it takes a long time to get a surgery, a lot of the doctors might not be the best to get quite a few botched surgeries that my friends have had. And a lot of them have actually come to America to get surgery in America, especially UFC guys.

• 1:24:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:24:05Joe Rogan?

  Because they felt like the doctors were better, because they're more incentivized. These doctors are paid better.

• 1:24:10Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:24:10Joe Rogan?

  And you're gonna get those really hot shot, this is the guy who does all the ACL tears for the Lakers.

• 1:24:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:24:16Joe Rogan?

  Like, these guys are, so like, there's something to be said.

• 1:24:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, if you can pay for that, for sure.

• 1:24:19Joe Rogan?

  But there's something to be said for the competition that drives innovation and makes people become the very best and the top of their field. But also, the most important things are not that. The more, most important things are regular, ordinary healthcare, and some of that stuff can fucking break people. Like, one bad fall when you don't have health insurance and you're a couple hundred thousand dollars in debt now.

• 1:24:46Speaker 02

  So, did you know that the number one cause of debt in our country is a medical diagnosis?

• 1:24:50Joe Rogan?

  I did. Yeah, I did. Yeah.

• 1:24:52Speaker 02

  It's terrifying.

• 1:24:52Joe Rogan?

  It's terrifying. So, like, that alone, I mean, if, if other countries have that, and it does, it might not be perfect.

• 1:25:01Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 1:25:01Joe Rogan?

  Why can't we have that? And why can't we have that along with specialists that are even better? Like, if you're, if you are, you know, the Lakers.

• 1:25:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:25:12Joe Rogan?

  You know, they need a guy who's just a fucking wizard.

• 1:25:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:25:15Joe Rogan?

  Pay people more for the very best guys. So, you still have competition, but... The idea that people just can go bankrupt if they get sick is like, are we not looking out for each other? Think about how much money we spend on other things. That's doable because other countries do it.

• 1:25:30Speaker 02

  It really makes me sad. Every once in a while, we would get a medical bill. We have great health insurance. The Screen Actors Guild has some of the best health insurance I've ever seen, mind you. In Oregon, where they're not used to seeing the Screen Actors Guild health insurance, doctors will sometimes be like, "I have never seen an insurance company cover this." I'm like, "I know."

• 1:25:51Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, they're really good.

• 1:25:52Speaker 02

  It's phenomenal. But, so, we have seen so many people with sick children suffering financially. You don't think about it. It's not necessarily even the diagnosis that's causing the bankruptcy. It's the time. If your daughter needs a specialized cancer treatment and you've got to drive six hours each way every day, or be put up at the Ronald McDonald House over by a hospital, you're not going to your work. You're not plowing your fields. You're not going to your nine to five. You're not, because your priority

• 1:26:32Speaker 02

  is your kid. That leads to bankruptcy. That's a really big problem. And so, it's not even the insurance. It's the lack of time. It's the lack of resources that we give people when they are sick. It's really heartbreaking. We got bills sometimes that were like $70,000 in like these crazy numbers. And I would take a picture and send it off to our insurance broker because we have a very, very blessed life. And I wasn't, I mean, I was definitely shocked by it and a little concerned, but I was like, "They'll handle it. They'll let us know." Most people don't have that. You know, they look at that and even though that was an error, we should have never gotten that.

• 1:27:16Speaker 02

  It was still, you know, our portion was still $4,000 or something like that.

• 1:27:21Joe Rogan?

  Why does it cost that much money?

• 1:27:23Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 1:27:24Joe Rogan?

  Like, that's the question. Like, what factors are involved in it costing that much money? Is it all above ground? Because I don't think it is. It definitely has been shown that it's not with some drugs, that they've hiked the price up of drugs because they know people have to buy it.

• 1:27:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:27:38Joe Rogan?

  They know it's, you, it's necessary, you're gonna pay.

• 1:27:41Speaker 02

  It is a very messed up system, for sure.

• 1:27:43Joe Rogan?

  It's crazy, it's a crazy system.

• 1:27:45Speaker 02

  It's got so many problems, like you can't-

• 1:27:46Joe Rogan?

  Whenever you have money, it's money. Whenever they can figure out how to make money with things.

• 1:27:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:27:52Joe Rogan?

  So it's like, is there an argument for some sort of a socialization of that in this country? And people that want to say that we shouldn't have any socialism, listen, we have some.

• 1:28:01Speaker 02

  We do have some.

• 1:28:02Joe Rogan?

  Here's, here's a big one. Fire department.

• 1:28:04Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:28:05Joe Rogan?

  It's a big one. All right, we all agree, the fire department is worth paying for with our tax dollars. We all pay, and the fire department goes where the fire is. If there's a fire in a poor community, if there's a fire in a rich community, that's how it works.

• 1:28:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:28:18Joe Rogan?

  We all agree with that because it's a, it's a very good part of a functional society.

• 1:28:22Speaker 02

  Well, and we don't want to be like, no, we don't need it.

• 1:28:24Joe Rogan?

  Right. You have a fire in your health then. Like, it's the same thing. You gotta, you, you should have calamity centers.

• 1:28:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:28:31Joe Rogan?

  Like, this is, we've set up, the socialism of our society is we've set up ways to handle calamities. We've got ways to set up fires, ways to set up floods, and we pay for it. And we make sure it's all there because we all need it. You want a, a social calamity? No education, massive crime, of all the, all the different problems that plague us that we ignore. And some great ways to do that, to stop that, is free education and free healthcare. You cut back on most of the problems that people run into.

• 1:29:04Speaker 02

  I agree, because one of the biggest problems in our country is mental health. It's a huge problem, and a lot of people go untreated because they don't have healthcare.

• 1:29:11Joe Rogan?

  That's what you're seeing in these tents.

• 1:29:13Speaker 02

  You've seen a lot of, you've seen a lot of mental illness, a lot.

• 1:29:17Joe Rogan?

  It's a giant portion of it. And that was all during the Reagan administration. The Reagan administration, they changed how they, like, what they did with mentally ill people. And they shut down a lot of these institutions. And they just let people become homeless.

• 1:29:31Speaker 02

  We were just having this conversation the other day because it's inhumane to, to, to determine how a person should live their life and where they should live their life. And, um, yeah, it's, it's, it's a very, very complicated gray issue, for sure. You know, you see it in Portland, where I live. It's, it's, um, it is a very complicated issue because there is not one solution. It needs to be a multi-pronged solution with a lot of hands on deck. Yeah.

• 1:29:59Joe Rogan?

  I mean, Portland, it's gotten, it was all, I think another thing that Portland did that was, I think, directionally correct, which was they decriminalized everything. They said, look, we're not gonna criminalize you for doing cocaine or having mushrooms. We're just, we're not gonna treat that like your personal use is a crime of anything. But unfortunately, when they did that, people moved there to do drugs.

• 1:30:21Speaker 02

  Well, unfortunately, when they did that, they didn't put the services in place ahead of time to be prepared for it.

• 1:30:27Joe Rogan?

  Well, you would need a lot of services. You need, like, real counseling and real healthcare. And you really should have an IbaGain center. If you're gonna have anything that is dealing with addiction, which is one of the primary factors, these people being homeless.

• 1:30:43Speaker 02

  Well, yeah, I mean, it's a chicken and egg thing, right? Because like, what comes, what comes first, the addiction or the, you know, the homelessness?

• 1:30:50Joe Rogan?

  They should have set up IbaGain centers. If you've got a decriminalized society, set up IbaGain centers in Oregon. I mean, it'd be the perfect place for it. You'd be able to help so many people. Because so many of those folks are just stuck. They're just stuck. And if you can get them out of whatever funk they're in, whether it's an opioid or crystal meth or whatever the thing that is that has captured their life, and let them find out who they are as a human, you could probably save a bunch of those folks. And that, that can be done.

• 1:31:21Speaker 02

  I do believe that a lot of those people can be saved. I think that it's it's really it's really sad. It's how invisible people are.

• 1:31:30Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's really sad.

• 1:31:32Joe Rogan?

  It's really sad. That's someone's baby and you have babies. You know what it's like.

• 1:31:35Speaker 02

  I know, and that's what I can't help but think.

• 1:31:37Joe Rogan?

  Think about how much you love your babies and you walk by that with someone's baby that is now on the street, you know, covered in their own feces.

• 1:31:42Speaker 02

  I know. It's really horrible.

• 1:31:45Joe Rogan?

  It's horrible. And it's horrible. It's a it's just a stain on us as a community that we we don't do anything about it. And the the answer is not just lock them up. I think they're doing something crazy out here where they're bringing in the National Guard and they're sweeping up all the encampments and like, that doesn't fix it. You're just you're just penalizing people for being fucked.

• 1:32:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:32:05Joe Rogan?

  It's but at a certain point in time, though, it's like, you ever watch that show Hoarders?

• 1:32:10Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:32:11Joe Rogan?

  Certain point in time, you gotta burn the house down. All right.

• 1:32:16Joe Rogan?

  Yes, one lady was keeping bags of poop.

• 1:32:18Speaker 02

  I have tendencies.

• 1:32:19Joe Rogan?

  She had bottles and bags of poop all in her house. They're like, we're gonna have to destroy this house. This is insane. It's like, that is almost where places like Skid Row are. Like, that it's so crazy that you've let it get this bad for so long to even clean it up. It's almost like you have to start from scratch. So it's almost like you'd have to take those people, you'd have to set up treatment places and take those people and convince them that there's a way to a life, that you don't want to live like this forever. There's a way to a life and we're gonna try to help you. And have these places that are set up where they have counselors and food, they clean people up, they give them their appropriate mental health medication if they need it, they talk to them, they give them activities.

• 1:33:02Joe Rogan?

  That's not like financially prohibitively expensive. They spent twenty four billion dollars in California trying to stop the homeless crisis or help it. They didn't do anything. It got bigger. It got way bigger and they spent twenty four billion dollars.

• 1:33:16Speaker 02

  Well, because they're coming over from Texas, being kicked out of Texas.

• 1:33:19Joe Rogan?

  The homeless. I don't think they travel.

• 1:33:21Speaker 02

  Go west, young men, go west.

• 1:33:23Joe Rogan?

  They have that kind of ambition.

• 1:33:24Speaker 02

  No, I I I think it's a big problem, but I also know that like, like, it is not. It's a multi-pronged problem, like I said. You know, a lot of people don't want to go into the shelters because they have an animal or they have a lot of stuff and there's limits on how many bags you can bring in. Things like that. So it's, it's, you know, you're not allowed to have drugs on you.

• 1:33:46Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:33:46Speaker 02

  Things that are prohibitive to, to, to persuade people to go into places that have help.

• 1:33:52Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:33:53Speaker 02

  So I, I don't know. It's, it's, it's going to take somebody a lot more creative than me and, and a lot of money and a lot of, um, open-minded people to figure out what to do because it's a, it's a big problem. And it's a big problem everywhere. Every major city.

• 1:34:08Joe Rogan?

  Every major city.

• 1:34:09Speaker 02

  It doesn't matter if it's blue or red. It doesn't matter. It is, it's a big problem.

• 1:34:12Joe Rogan?

  The thing is, it's fairly recent. That's what's disturbing because I think that it's a symptom of a society that's lost its way because it's, it's fairly recent. There wasn't a time when I was a boy, we had that many homeless people. You occasionally had a homeless person that you'd run into in like Boston, where I lived, or New York City. You'd occasionally run into homeless people, but there was no encampments.

• 1:34:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:34:34Joe Rogan?

  There was no, this is a completely new thing as far as I know.

• 1:34:38Speaker 02

  I just knew.

• 1:34:38Joe Rogan?

  There was during the Great Depression though, but that was just like har- horrific poverty where they had shanty. This episode is brought to you by The Farmer's Dog. Here's a fun fact. Research shows that dogs who maintain a healthy weight can live up to two and a half years longer on average than dogs who are overweight. Isn't that wild and also kind of obvious at the same time? So why is feeding vague scoops of ultra-processed kibble still the status quo for most dog owners? Healthy alternatives exist and trust me, I know. I buy one, The Farmer's Dog. I use it for both my dogs. They love it. They eat it up quick. It smells good to them. It smells good to me. It's human-grade food. The Farmer's

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• 1:36:05Joe Rogan?

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• 1:36:46Speaker 02

  I don't know, do you think it's a loss of, in some regard, it's a loss of community and it's a loss of empathy and caring for people? You know, I know that like in the town that I grew up, when somebody was down on their luck, everybody would come together and help that person.

• 1:37:01Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:37:01Speaker 02

  It doesn't really happen anymore. You know, we're all so consumed with our own lives and, you know, what's happening to us, I think.

• 1:37:07Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I think it's, it's not a coincidence that it's happening in the places that have the most people, too.

• 1:37:13Speaker 02

  Of course.

• 1:37:13Joe Rogan?

  Because where, where there's the most people, not only are you gonna have the higher percentage, or rather, a higher number of people with mental illnesses, but you're also gonna have this thing that happens when you have too many people that live in a place where you don't value each other. Like, I live in a neighborhood where there's a guy that lives in my neighborhood, this old fella, and he's always working on his garden. And every time I drive by, he waves. I look forward.

• 1:37:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:37:39Joe Rogan?

  I look forward.

• 1:37:40Speaker 02

  To the wave.

• 1:37:40Joe Rogan?

  To the wave. I wave at that dude, "What's up?" It's like, he's a friendly guy. Everybody who drives by his house, he waves at.

• 1:37:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:37:47Joe Rogan?

  And I look forward to waving at that guy. And that doesn't happen in New York City. In New York City, you wave at a guy every day, he's like, "What the fuck are you waving at, bitch?" Like, they wanna fight you. Like, "You got a problem with me? Why are you looking at me every day?" Because there's too many people. There's fucking millions of people all stacked on top of each other. It's not how we're designed to live.

• 1:38:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:38:07Joe Rogan?

  We're designed to live in some sort of peace and harmony with nature, not like a new nature. So this new nature of concrete and electricity is just weird for us. And so we behave weird. And then when you see someone who's down, you just think, that's not me. I'm gonna keep on moving. Whereas if you lived in a small town and that was a member of your community, that's Earl. Like, oh my god, Earl's passed out in front of a store. Like, Earl, what's going on, man?

• 1:38:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:38:34Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, like, you love Earl. Pick him up. No, Earl's a faceless, nameless person in Manhattan. He's one of many, and no one cares. They just walk right by you on the way to the play.

• 1:38:46Speaker 02

  Well, everybody is hustling, you know? Like, that's, it's a big thing. Like, it's, we've got too little time in the day, a lot to accomplish. Everybody's just, how do I get mine? How do I take care of my family? How do I protect this? How do I do that? How do I, I don't have time to look at Earl.

• 1:39:03Joe Rogan?

  Exactly.

• 1:39:03Speaker 02

  You know, and...

• 1:39:05Joe Rogan?

  But also, even if you did help Earl, Earl might be an idiot. It might be like one of them things, you help Earl, then two days later, he's smoking crack again. Earl!

• 1:39:14Speaker 02

  Oh, Earl.

• 1:39:15Joe Rogan?

  Earl might just be, that just might be Earl. There's certain people you can't save, and there's always gonna be people like that. But there's a lot of those folks that genuinely are just down on their luck, and maybe they had an abusive childhood.

• 1:39:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:39:27Joe Rogan?

  And maybe things went wrong with them at multiple points. And maybe they had an injury and they got OxyContin prescribed to them, and then all of a sudden, they can't get off. That happens all the time. I know people that that happened to.

• 1:39:40Speaker 02

  But it's gonna take a coordinated effort from our representatives to actually care about people enough to figure out what the right solution is.

• 1:39:51Joe Rogan?

  I would like to talk to the people that spent the 24 billion.

• 1:39:55Joe Rogan?

  In California and go, what did you guys do? Like, how come you didn't do better?

• 1:40:02Joe Rogan?

  There's more, there's more than when it started. They increased their number.

• 1:40:07Speaker 02

  Well, to me, what that says is that there are there are more and more people falling through the cracks every single day then.

• 1:40:13Joe Rogan?

  They, an enormous number in Los Angeles. Los Angeles alone is a strange place in some neighborhoods. Where you're just driving through, you just see like, oh, this is like, if I was looking at a piece of fruit and a piece of fruit had like this bruised area and I was like, oh, what happened to this, somebody dropped, like, it's like a damaged part of your society. You've got these people completely removed from, just like, like a bruise, just sitting there. They're a part of it, but they're like, they're a sad part of it. And that part is getting bigger. The bruise is bigger. It's weird.

• 1:40:50Speaker 02

  Well, then, yeah, I mean, we left Los Angeles two years ago, two years ago, can't even speak, two years ago. And, and I love LA. I love LA. I lived there for 25 years.

• 1:41:02Joe Rogan?

  It's a great city.

• 1:41:03Speaker 02

  The great city. Great people.

• 1:41:05Joe Rogan?

  A lot of amazing human beings. Some of my best friends I met in LA.

• 1:41:10Speaker 02

  And it's, it's like many other cities. It has a problem. And, and the solution is there, it just, it's, it's gonna require a lot of work. And, and I don't know what that is, sadly.

• 1:41:23Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I don't know what that is, but I know that people don't course correct. And that's what's screwy. What's screwy is just let this thing get bigger. Like, you gotta dump a lot of resources into removing these tent communities, setting these people up in some sort of a community center, some sort of a rehabilitation center. Like, make an effort. There's no way you can allow this, because it's just the cost that's happening just to the neighborhood. Like, if you live right next door to a tent city and you're trying to sell your house, like, good luck. You're not selling, you're not selling your house.

• 1:41:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:41:57Joe Rogan?

  That, that's gonna fuck up everything. And it's gonna fuck it up for them too. And it's gonna cost everybody money. You would, you'd be better off spending that money trying to help those people. And I guarantee you, at least some of them are gonna pop through on the other side, figure it out, become successful and be forever eternally grateful. And they'll be able to help more people do the same. There's always a few of those people that come out of those kind of treatment centers that can help other people do it.

• 1:42:20Speaker 02

  I would be really curious to see, like statistically. What the common denominator of the majority of the homeless people in the US, what it was.

• 1:42:33Joe Rogan?

  I wonder if there's done these studies.

• 1:42:35Speaker 02

  If there's studies where they actually went around and...

• 1:42:38Joe Rogan?

  It's gotta be mostly drugs, right?

• 1:42:39Speaker 02

  No, I don't know, though. I don't know. And granted, I do not know enough about this to be speaking about it with authority.

• 1:42:45Joe Rogan?

  I don't either, but I just jumped right to a first conclusion.

• 1:42:46Speaker 02

  But you talk to, you do talk to some people that find themselves homeless. And I've had this conversation with somebody who found themselves homeless and started doing drugs because try spending the night out on the street. It's not, you're not comfortable. It's, it's depending on your circumstances, but you know, where you are, potentially what your gender is, like, you know, what your own mental health is, like.

• 1:43:13Joe Rogan?

  Also, you probably low self-respect.

• 1:43:16Speaker 02

  Terrifying.

• 1:43:17Joe Rogan?

  At that point in time, you're literally outside.

• 1:43:19Speaker 02

  Or you have high self-respect, but you had a really shitty fucking day. Or you're, you know, someone you were caring for had cancer and you lost your house because they passed and you didn't go to work for a year and a half. Like, for whatever reason, you then start using drugs because it helps numb the life.

• 1:43:39Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:43:40Speaker 02

  So I don't know. I, I think you're right. There, that a lot of people who do do drugs find themselves on the street. But I also think that a lot of people who are on the street for other reasons find their way to drugs. And so it's, it is just a, it's a really big problem with a lot of moving parts. And, and I, I think first and foremost, we have to, trying to find our way to empathy and, and figure out how to help people.

• 1:44:04Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's very well said. What you said, I completely agree with. And I think it can be done. I think, just, I think it could be done with that 24 billion. I just think that it's, there's a lot of incentive.

• 1:44:17Speaker 02

  There's a lot of wasted money in this country, let's be honest.

• 1:44:20Joe Rogan?

  There is. It's also, this is a thing unfortunately that they campaign with. You know, when, when there's certain issues that I think politicians genuinely don't want resolved because they can campaign on solving those problems.

• 1:44:35Joe Rogan?

  I really do think that. I talked to Rep. Luna and she actually said that.

• 1:44:40Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 1:44:40Joe Rogan?

  And I was like, so you really think they do that? And she's like, absolutely. That is so dark that they would not want solutions from both sides.

• 1:44:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:44:49Joe Rogan?

  Because they would rather keep the argument in place. So they go, if it's up to me, I'm gonna go out there and I'm gonna stop gay marriage. And then it becomes a thing that they, they want, they want, they would like to repeal gay marriage just so they have the ability to fight to bring back gay marriage. Like, that's how twisted some of these people are.

• 1:45:07Speaker 02

  It wouldn't surprise me.

• 1:45:09Joe Rogan?

  It's not, I'm not surprised. I think that's probably what happened with Roe v. Wade. I think that's probably part of it.

• 1:45:15Speaker 02

  I mean, government is a business. We have to acknowledge that, that everybody, everybody gets paid.

• 1:45:21Joe Rogan?

  There's so much money in that business. And they really do like having problems to campaign against. They openly talk about it. Like, get them on this one. Like, they like that problem. Keep that problem going.

• 1:45:30Speaker 02

  You know what, though? You know what we should do? We should give them problems that like legitimately, like, like big problems that matter, like, uh, saving children.

• 1:45:38Joe Rogan?

  Well, that would be great.

• 1:45:39Speaker 02

  And like, education and things like that. You know, you shouldn't, you shouldn't, uh, people shouldn't have to move house because they're trying to chase a public school that's better. Like, the existing public school should be great.

• 1:45:52Joe Rogan?

  And we should have tried to invest in that a long ass time ago.

• 1:45:55Speaker 02

  And we should pay our fucking teachers. How about that?

• 1:45:58Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, a lot more.

• 1:45:58Speaker 02

  My mom was a teacher for thirty-five years. She had a master's degree and she made something like thirty-five thousand dollars a year.

• 1:46:05Joe Rogan?

  I know, it's crazy. You have to love what you do, like, and only want to do it because you love it. Whereas there's so many jobs that pay so much more.

• 1:46:13Speaker 02

  But why is it in our-

• 1:46:14Joe Rogan?

  And it's so important.

• 1:46:14Speaker 02

  In our country that anything to do with children gets underpaid?

• 1:46:18Joe Rogan?

  I don't know.

• 1:46:19Speaker 02

  When they're the future.

• 1:46:20Joe Rogan?

  Well, if you wanted to put a tinfoil hat on, you'd be like, I'm trying to keep people down, trying to hold down society so I can control it. I just want to fuck up the education system, put as little money into it as possible, guarantee chaos, guarantee lawlessness in some segments of society. That way we can always have reasons to bring the military onto the streets and reasons to arrest people and reasons to enact new laws and reasons to put people on digital ID. Like, if you want- Wanted to get really cynical, you would say, well, they didn't solve it because they don't want to solve it. Because they want the South Side of Chicago to still look like Afghanistan, the height of the war. They want chaos, they want murder on the streets. Because that way they keep people scared and that way they campaign against these various sides. If you really wanted to get dark, you would, you would look at it that way.

• 1:47:03Joe Rogan?

  I think what happens is more than anything is that it's like really difficult to get anything done.

• 1:47:09Speaker 02

  I think that's the truth. I think that is the truth.

• 1:47:11Joe Rogan?

  And it's like politically, it is, it's not your best weapon. Like your best weapon are what are the big cultural issues? You know, if it is immigration reform, if you're one of those people that wants to close the border and want to stop these immigrants coming through. And if you're on the other side, if it's a, we want compassion and we want healthcare for all. Like then, those are the things that you start, you start throwing around. Those are the things that are going to get you votes, right? If you say, I'm going to campaign to make sure that we have healthcare for infants. Because right now pediatricians and physicians don't get paid as much. And this is what I'm campaigning on. People will be like, okay, what about global warming? What about climate?

• 1:47:52Speaker 02

  But then, so you have someone that does that. They, they run on that and, and wanting to get equal pay for pediatricians and higher pay for teachers. And like, let's really run on, you know, what's better for our children. And they get elected and then they go to, to work on Monday morning. And everyone's like, well, you can't do that. I mean, I know you got elected on it, so good luck. You're going to spend the next two years of your life, you know, trying to keep your constituents happy. Saying that you're doing it, but we're going to block you at every turn.

• 1:48:21Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:48:21Speaker 02

  Every turn.

• 1:48:23Joe Rogan?

  It should have been done that way a long ass time ago. That's the, the problem. It's like, I don't understand how anybody who loves their kids would not want their kids to be taught by the best people possible. So unless you're in abject poverty where you can't even think about where your taxes go. If you have children, you should be thinking like, boy, I hope they get the best people to teach my kids. Instead, we get people that are willing to take a job that pays so little. That like almost anybody with a bachelor degree can get a better job somewhere else financially. Get more, you may get paid more as a waiter than most teachers get.

• 1:48:58Speaker 02

  Oh, please, you'd get more money as a dog walker.

• 1:49:02Joe Rogan?

  Probably.

• 1:49:03Speaker 02

  You would. A girlfriend of mine.

• 1:49:04Joe Rogan?

  If you have a good group of dogs.

• 1:49:05Speaker 02

  Girlfriend of mine was a lawyer, a trial lawyer. New trial lawyer, but, you know, making good money. And she had, and I might get this wrong, but she got, she had stress-induced pancreatic shutdown. So her body as an adult had type 1 diabetes, which is like crazy. And it was all due to stress. So they told her, you know, you're gonna have diabetes now. It's not like type 2, like this is it, but you still need to reduce your stress. And so she stopped being a lawyer. Her husband was like, okay, great, like this is it. We gotta reduce stress. So she quit her job and stayed home and started doing yoga and was like,

• 1:49:47Speaker 02

  okay, I think I'm, I'm ready to try and contribute a little bit again and, and figure something out. And maybe I'll go walk dogs because, you know, I like dogs. Long walks will be stress reducing. I can make a little extra money. Why not do that? By the time she started watching our dogs, like at her home overnight for like a month while I was on location, she was making more money as a dog sitter slash dog walker than she ever did as a lawyer.

• 1:50:15Joe Rogan?

  But she sounds like an exceptional dog walker though.

• 1:50:17Speaker 02

  Crazy.

• 1:50:17Joe Rogan?

  If you had a lawyer's mind to the dog walking business.

• 1:50:21Speaker 02

  I mean, I don't, maybe I would get like a picture every day, but she wasn't like, I mean.

• 1:50:24Joe Rogan?

  It's very valuable if you love your dogs. If someone's like, you can really trust to take care of your dogs.

• 1:50:28Speaker 02

  But those are the jobs, right? Talking about jobs and like children, like those are the jobs. Like, you know, if I was, I keep telling my nephew like every day, he's like, I don't know what to do with my life. And I'm like, be a plumber. Like, go on your own business. Find a job where we're always gonna need you.

• 1:50:44Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:50:44Speaker 02

  You know, open a dog walking service. Start there. Like do, do something.

• 1:50:49Joe Rogan?

  Do something, but more importantly, what do you wanna do?

• 1:50:52Speaker 02

  What do you, it's so hard for people to figure out. Because, because you're judging what you wanna do based on what you see everyone around you do. And, and, you know, I was blessed at a very young age to wake up in the morning and know what I wanted to do. That's very, very rare.

• 1:51:09Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's a gift. That's a gift the universe gave you. Cause if you don't, if you're just like, I don't know where to start. I don't know what to do.

• 1:51:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:51:17Joe Rogan?

  I think with people like that, generally, they've never tried to. This is what I think is, one of the things is very important for kids. Find a thing, whatever that thing is. Whether your thing is painting, whether your thing is music, whether your thing is sports. Just find a thing that's hard to do and work on getting better at that thing. And that'll teach you so much about what life is. And if you don't do that, if you just do the work that school gives you and then you go home and you watch TV and then you hang out with your friends and you do the work at school and you don't get involved in anything that really tests you as a person. Like tests your creativity or tests your, your, your endurance. If you want to be a runner, are you willing to get up every morning and actually do the work?

• 1:52:00Joe Rogan?

  Like things that test you, they teach you the process of enjoying things and getting better at things. And when people don't go through that when they're young, it's a real problem trying to find a thing and commit to it. You almost have to stumble upon it and get lucky.

• 1:52:17Speaker 02

  My parents though, like when, you know, I didn't, I wasn't raised by anybody in the arts. My dad's a builder, my mom was a teacher. And my parents, not one day of my life told me I couldn't do something. Like every single day they were like, go for it. Why not? Like sure, you know? I, I do believe my dad always said like, you know, second place is just the first loser. So I did have a dad like that, but like he said it sort of like, you know, he was building competition. Like he also knew that I was the child that he could say that to and it would motivate me. He didn't say that to my brother who were very two different, you know, children.

• 1:52:54Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you gotta figure that out.

• 1:52:55Speaker 02

  But my parents told me I could do things, you know? And then at a very young age, this is where representation matters. At a very young age, I in high school was dating a hockey player who was my age, was playing for the WHL team in Portland and got drafted. So when I was 17 years old, I saw an 18 year old get drafted in the NHL and in my mind, Somebody my age did something really hard that required a lot of work, but he made it. And him making it and seeing that happen in a counterpart of mine gave me the courage to go, I'm moving to California.

• 1:53:30Joe Rogan?

  Whoa.

• 1:53:31Speaker 02

  You did it, I can do it.

• 1:53:32Joe Rogan?

  Whoa.

• 1:53:33Speaker 02

  So you have to have both. You have to have encouraging parents and you have to have the means to be able to pursue the things that you want to pursue. But you also have to have representation and see other people around you succeed that are your age or that you identify with or that look like you. That's important, too.

• 1:53:49Joe Rogan?

  That's huge. Inspiration is so important.

• 1:53:52Speaker 02

  So important. It starts with teachers, too, right?

• 1:53:54Joe Rogan?

  Sure.

• 1:53:55Speaker 02

  Kids need one good teacher.

• 1:53:57Joe Rogan?

  I had one good science teacher when I was in the seventh grade and he said something that I think about all the time. He, I'd never thought about this before. He said, I want you to really hurt your head. I want you to look up at the sky and think about how far forever is. Think about the idea of infinity. Just, just really think about it. Just only look at the stars at night and think about infinity.

• 1:54:21Joe Rogan?

  Cause you can't. You can't even wrap your head around it.

• 1:54:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:54:24Joe Rogan?

  He was an intense dude. He was a Vietnam vet. He was like a little shaken up and you could kind of tell. But, but he really loved science. He really loved science. And he was, uh, he was just trying to get us to understand how fucking crazy the world is. Like, we really want you to think about this. Like, you're on a planet in space. I, I never thought about it before then. I was like, oh, the stars, there's the moon. I never really thought about forever. The idea of like even being able to imagine where, where's my mind going when it's imagining infinite space?

• 1:55:02Speaker 02

  Yeah. It's, uh, it's crazy how small we are.

• 1:55:07Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:55:08Speaker 02

  Yeah. And-

• 1:55:09Joe Rogan?

  And we're prob, we were just going over this the other day. We're probably, the whole thing's probably fractal. There's this photograph, it's a crazy photograph, of a human brain cell next to a map of the universe. And they look like the same thing. It's really weird.

• 1:55:28Speaker 02

  So we're all like living in Orion's Belt around a cat's neck in Men in Black?

• 1:55:33Joe Rogan?

  My joke was that there's a guy, that's his eye, right? And he's depressed and he's gonna blow his brains out and that's the Big Bang.

• 1:55:41Speaker 02

  Oh, Jesus.

• 1:55:42Joe Rogan?

  Part of, look at this. So on the left is a brain cell, on the right is the universe.

• 1:55:47Speaker 02

  Stop it. Wow.

• 1:55:50Joe Rogan?

  It's kinda nuts. I mean, it's kinda like dead on. It looks exactly like the same thing.

• 1:55:55Speaker 02

  It really does.

• 1:55:57Joe Rogan?

  I mean.

• 1:55:58Speaker 02

  They're both so beautiful.

• 1:55:59Joe Rogan?

  It's ama- it's like the structure of it is amazing. But if, why, why wouldn't we believe? If we believe in subatomic particles, okay? We believe there, there are things that exist in the subatomic world that are behaving like magic. Like they, they're moving and not moving at the same time. They appear and disappear. We don't know where they're going. There's some quantum entanglement that they show. Where particles that are not even remotely connected to, respond to each other. Why wouldn't we think that we are subatomic in another being? That's true infinity. True infinity is not just the size of the universe itself being infinite.

• 1:56:40Joe Rogan?

  But of, literally, your universe is a small part of another being that's in another universe.

• 1:56:49Speaker 02

  I mean,

• 1:56:52Speaker 02

  anything's possible, right?

• 1:56:54Joe Rogan?

  The whole thing's so weird.

• 1:56:55Speaker 02

  We know so little about the universe.

• 1:56:58Joe Rogan?

  It's so weird.

• 1:56:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:56:59Joe Rogan?

  It's so weird. We have no idea. We're, we're literally flying through space and we're, you know, arguing over who's a Nazi. And the, the whole thing is just very bizarre. It's very bizarre.

• 1:57:11Speaker 02

  It is, uh, pretty amazing when you, when you look at how small we are. We've started like reading, our, our daughter's interested in space. And so we've started looking at books and talking about the Milky Way and what the universe is and what Earth is and where we live. And, um, it's pretty amazing when you, when you realize how fragile the whole thing is. Cause it's so, we're so tiny.

• 1:57:36Joe Rogan?

  We're so tiny.

• 1:57:37Speaker 02

  We're so tiny.

• 1:57:38Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:57:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:57:40Joe Rogan?

  And our galaxy's so tiny. That's what's nuts. Our galaxy's immense, hundreds of billions of stars. Tiny, little tiny thing, little tiny cute little galaxy.

• 1:57:49Speaker 02

  Little tiny little.

• 1:57:50Joe Rogan?

  Little sweetie little galaxy.

• 1:57:52Speaker 02

  Oh, look at that little dot right there.

• 1:57:53Joe Rogan?

  Have you been paying attention to this, um, object that's hurtling towards Earth? It's called A thirty, they're calling it A thirty-one.

• 1:58:01Speaker 02

  I try to avoid things that are going to give me nightmares. Um, are we gonna send, are we gonna?

• 1:58:06Joe Rogan?

  Extraterrestrial perhaps.

• 1:58:08Speaker 02

  Is it really? We're gonna meet the aliens finally?

• 1:58:10Joe Rogan?

  There's something weird about it. Um, we were just going over the other day, there was an article that was stating that whatever they use to detect, like, what, what is around this, like, what, they can detect the composition, whether it's like mostly water, vapor, mostly iron. This thing is giving off the indications that is an alloy that is, only exists on Earth through industrial alloy making processes.

• 1:58:39Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:58:39Joe Rogan?

  That it's not a natural metal.

• 1:58:41Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:58:41Joe Rogan?

  And that's what, what they're getting is the signal that this thing that is hurling through space, this massive object that's moving, by the way, from the same direction in space where the WOW signal came?

• 1:58:55Speaker 02

  I don't know what that is.

• 1:58:56Joe Rogan?

  The WOW signal is a, they believe, uh, intelligently generated signal that they picked up. I think it was in the seventies? Was it in the seventies?

• 1:59:07Speaker 02

  I should know this. I'm gonna lose my nerd cred.

• 1:59:09Joe Rogan?

  No, no, it's okay. It's, it's a weird one. It's a little obscure. So, they, I don't know what the exact technique they were using to monitor radio waves in space, but they got a signal. So here it is. The WOW signal is a powerful seventy-two second narrow band radio signal detected on August fifteenth, nineteen seventy-seven by the Big Ear Radio Telescope at Ohio State University, which initially suggested an extraterrest- extraterrestrial origin. Uh, named for the WOW written in printout by the astronomer Jerry, uh, Eamon? Eamon? Eamon? Uh, the signal had characteristics expected from a technological source, but follow-up efforts have failed to detect it again. The leading hypothesis is that a natural, natural astrophysical event such as a flare

• 1:59:54Joe Rogan?

  from a magnetar briefly illuminated a cold hydrogen cloud, causing it to emit radio signal similar to a laser, or it's a laser. And then this object is coming from that.

• 2:00:07Speaker 02

  From that area.

• 2:00:08Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, look at that. They sent you a signal, and then now this thing is coming through there. So if you think, like, how fast this thing is going, if it came from, you know, the other side of the galaxy, it's probably exactly how long it would take to get here.

• 2:00:21Speaker 02

  So, it's coming directly for Earth?

• 2:00:24Joe Rogan?

  No, it's, it's coming near Earth.

• 2:00:26Speaker 02

  Right, so we're not worried it's gonna hit us?

• 2:00:28Joe Rogan?

  No, I don't believe we're worried that, well, I'm gonna find out tomorrow. Avi Loeb, an astronomer from Harvard is coming on.

• 2:00:33Speaker 02

  Okay, amazing.

• 2:00:34Joe Rogan?

  And he's gonna enlighten us as to what, what this thing is all about, but it's all, it's weird. Like, as it gets closer, it's weirder and weirder. Like, they've never seen anything like this thing before.

• 2:00:43Speaker 02

  But is it possible, then, that another planet out in the, like, universes, like, isn't made up of, has alloy properties, and it could've chipped off, and it's now hurtling through space?

• 2:00:59Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you would have to ask, like, a metallurgist that question. That's a good question. They just know the only way it exists on Earth is through this industrial process. If it is that stuff.

• 2:01:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:01:09Joe Rogan?

  Why do they think it's that stuff? Do you remember that article? We looked it up, like, a couple days ago. It, um, look, it's so fun to think it's a spaceship, to think it's so fun to think the Cylons are coming.

• 2:01:19Speaker 02

  Of course it is. 'Cause they might be.

• 2:01:21Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, they might be.

• 2:01:22Speaker 02

  Do you think they're coming to save us, or?

• 2:01:24Joe Rogan?

  I think they would've already stepped in if they were gonna do that.

• 2:01:27Speaker 02

  You'd think so.

• 2:01:28Joe Rogan?

  They would've stepped in, yeah, sure, there's been, you know, they would've stepped in right after World War II.

• 2:01:31Speaker 02

  I don't know.

• 2:01:32Joe Rogan?

  They'd be like, "Hey, hey, hey, with the fucking nukes."

• 2:01:34Speaker 02

  Or do you think they're just up there going, "You're gonna have to save yourself, kids."

• 2:01:39Joe Rogan?

  Perhaps, maybe, perhaps it's a process that all intelligent emerging life goes through, and then, you know, you have to kinda let it go through the process, like, you have to let your kids fall down.

• 2:01:51Joe Rogan?

  In contrast to all known comets, including the interstellar comet 21 Borisov, the observed spectrum of the gas plume around 31 Atlas shows prominent nickel emission, but no evidence for iron. Other than 31 Atlas, this anomaly was only known to exist in industrially-produced nickel alloys through the carbonyl chemical pathway, which refines nickel through the formation and decomposition of nickel tetra carbonyl. The authors of the new paper postulate that this carbonyl process is realized naturally near the nucleus of 31 Atlas. They argue that this in situ formation of this thing predicts that nickel should be

• 2:02:34Joe Rogan?

  strongly concentrated near the nucleus. So it's like the whole thing is some very weird metal.

• 2:02:41Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:02:41Joe Rogan?

  That's the point. And it's also, it's weird the way it's moving. What are they saying about the way it's moving? There's something about-

• 2:02:50Speaker 04

  Self-correcting or something? I think that they thought it had some emission. I don't know. It looked like a jet, but I don't think so.

• 2:02:57Joe Rogan?

  It seemed, no, it did seem like they were saying that it changed-

• 2:03:00Speaker 04

  It's very far away.

• 2:03:01Speaker 02

  It's very far away.

• 2:03:03Speaker 04

  Yeah, zoom in and-

• 2:03:04Speaker 02

  So maybe it's the silence coming back. They're like, we have to go save our parents.

• 2:03:08Joe Rogan?

  Have you seen the video of it? You seen they got a telescope that actually took video of it?

• 2:03:10Speaker 02

  That's what amazes me, is that we have telescopes that can see that far.

• 2:03:14Joe Rogan?

  I can send it to you, Jamie. This guy has it on his Twitter page. But it's like, it's very low resolution, obviously, because it's fucking millions of miles away. But whatever it is, is really weird. It's really weird.

• 2:03:28Speaker 02

  You know, people ask me all the time if I believe in aliens, I think just because of what I do for a living and the genre that I'm in and, you know-

• 2:03:35Joe Rogan?

  I could wait to talk to you about aliens.

• 2:03:36Speaker 02

  What I always say, you're gonna be vastly disappointed that I know so little about them, but what I always say, I think it's a line from a movie, where it would be an awful waste of space. If it was just us.

• 2:03:50Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, there is a line in the movie. I don't remember what movie it was.

• 2:03:52Speaker 02

  It's from the movie with Jodie Foster.

• 2:03:55Joe Rogan?

  Contact.

• 2:03:55Speaker 02

  Contact.

• 2:03:56Joe Rogan?

  Oh.

• 2:03:56Speaker 02

  When her dad says to her that it would be an awful waste of space.

• 2:04:00Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:04:01Speaker 02

  Beautiful movie.

• 2:04:01Joe Rogan?

  It's a great movie. Carl Sagan wrote that book. That's it. So this is the thing. Like, what is that? What the fuck is this?

• 2:04:14Joe Rogan?

  Like, obviously, low resolution, obviously, moving through space, but also, what the hell's that?

• 2:04:20Speaker 02

  Well, it seems to be moving pretty quickly, yeah?

• 2:04:22Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it looks like a spaceship.

• 2:04:25Speaker 02

  I mean, it also looks like a dust bunny.

• 2:04:27Joe Rogan?

  I was showing my friend Matt last night, we were having dinner, and I was showing him videos of praying mantises killing hummingbirds, because he didn't believe it.

• 2:04:35Speaker 02

  Stop.

• 2:04:35Joe Rogan?

  He's like, "No way."

• 2:04:36Speaker 02

  Well, they're big. Praying mantises can be quite big, right?

• 2:04:39Joe Rogan?

  Not in comparison to hummingbirds. It's crazy how strong they are.

• 2:04:43Speaker 02

  Stop. They literally kill hummingbirds?

• 2:04:45Joe Rogan?

  They snatch hummingbirds right off feeders, so they sit by the hummingbird feeder, motionless, and the hummingbird comes in to take a drink and just snatches them.

• 2:04:52Speaker 02

  What do they do with them?

• 2:04:53Joe Rogan?

  Eat them.

• 2:04:54Speaker 02

  Stop.

• 2:04:55Joe Rogan?

  It's crazy. Praying mantises are so-

• 2:04:58Speaker 02

  Makes me really sad.

• 2:05:00Joe Rogan?

  -ruthless. I have watched-

• 2:05:01Speaker 02

  Well, they eat their own young, right?

• 2:05:03Joe Rogan?

  They probably do. I mean, I don't know.

• 2:05:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:05:05Joe Rogan?

  I don't know if they do that, but I know that they, like, they put a praying mantis in a box, and then they'll drop a roach in, and the praying mantis just snatches it up and just starts eating the roach alive.

• 2:05:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, but that doesn't make me feel bad.

• 2:05:18Joe Rogan?

  But it does it to this bird.

• 2:05:19Speaker 02

  That makes me feel bad.

• 2:05:20Joe Rogan?

  But the thing is, like, why couldn't that be an intelligent life form from another planet? Like, and then come here on 31 Atlas and land? I mean, that is a possibility.

• 2:05:31Speaker 02

  Well, that's the thing, right, is that we spend so much time, or I guess in our imagination, like, we've been conditioned to think that, you know, intelligent life looks like something-

• 2:05:39Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:05:40Speaker 02

  -from these movies. So we all think intelligent life is, you know, these guys with big heads, or they look like us, or, you know, whatever we think. But they absolutely could literally be a flea.

• 2:05:51Joe Rogan?

  It could be a six-foot-tall mantis.

• 2:05:53Speaker 02

  It could be.

• 2:05:54Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:05:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:05:55Joe Rogan?

  And then we'd be in real trouble.

• 2:05:56Speaker 02

  Real trouble. It's like, absolutely.

• 2:06:00Joe Rogan?

  Show her one of those praying mantises getting a hummingbird.

• 2:06:03Speaker 02

  This is gonna make me really sad, you guys.

• 2:06:05Joe Rogan?

  I know, it makes me sad, too. I love hummingbirds. Yes, I love birds.

• 2:06:08Speaker 02

  Have you ever wanted to wear one of those hats with the hummingbird feeders on it?

• 2:06:12Joe Rogan?

  You know, do people do that? That's so crazy.

• 2:06:15Speaker 02

  Like, they'll put the little things and they just stay really still.

• 2:06:17Joe Rogan?

  They're a beautiful little bird. A weird, weird little bird, too, and the way they're able to change direction and move.

• 2:06:23Speaker 02

  It's amazing. I didn't realize, our house where we live now, they stop all the time. So like, they'll sit on the branches and stuff, which is really rare to see.

• 2:06:31Joe Rogan?

  So, this is, praying mantises are so nasty.

• 2:06:35Speaker 02

  But look at it, it kind of knows it's there.

• 2:06:38Joe Rogan?

  Well, that one.

• 2:06:39Speaker 02

  Oh my god, he grabbed it by his beak!

• 2:06:40Joe Rogan?

  Oh yeah, reached out and just snagged him. The thing is, they're so strong for their size. I mean, that's, that is literally like a person trying to take out a cow.

• 2:06:49Speaker 02

  Go down. There was one, that one, the, with the praying mantis and the-

• 2:06:53Joe Rogan?

  The scorpion? Oh, praying mantis is gonna kill that scorpion. That scorpion doesn't have a fucking chance.

• 2:06:59Speaker 02

  I don't know-

• 2:07:00Joe Rogan?

  That's what I'm guessing. Yeah, look, he's already on top of him.

• 2:07:03Speaker 02

  What?

• 2:07:04Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, he just mounted him.

• 2:07:05Speaker 02

  But then, look, he's avoiding the-

• 2:07:07Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, he's gonna figure it out.

• 2:07:08Speaker 02

  He's also avoiding the stinger. Like, what is happening?

• 2:07:11Joe Rogan?

  What is happening? They're probably both trying to figure out why they're in there together.

• 2:07:14Speaker 02

  Oh my god!

• 2:07:17Speaker 02

  This is the shit of nightmares for me.

• 2:07:19Joe Rogan?

  Praying mantises are not, they're monsters. They're fu- see if you can find videos of praying mantises eating roaches. There's like a whole mantis page on Instagram, where they put like, a different bug in there with praying mantises.

• 2:07:32Speaker 02

  How do we know it's not AI created, though, guys?

• 2:07:34Joe Rogan?

  Cause this has been around for years.

• 2:07:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:07:36Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Praying mantises, oh look, they fuck up giant lizards. They kill lizards. Like, the lizard tried to eat him at the beginning of it.

• 2:07:43Speaker 02

  Oh my god!

• 2:07:43Joe Rogan?

  If you watch the video, the actual video, the lizard tried to eat him, he's like, "Not today, bitch. I'll be eating you."

• 2:07:49Speaker 02

  Oh my god.

• 2:07:50Joe Rogan?

  That poor lizard thought he was gonna eat the praying mantis, and the praying mantis is eating him. Like, we are so lucky that they're little. We're so lucky.

• 2:08:00Speaker 02

  We are so li- I hate-

• 2:08:01Joe Rogan?

  Cause if they were big and smart-

• 2:08:03Speaker 02

  No, and then there's a bird, I don't wanna see the bird die.

• 2:08:05Joe Rogan?

  Is he killing that bird?

• 2:08:05Speaker 02

  Oh my god.

• 2:08:06Speaker 04

  The one I found, which I hadn't seen before, it's hanging upside down from a flower, eating, right here.

• 2:08:12Joe Rogan?

  Oh my god.

• 2:08:13Speaker 04

  It's like, it's a big bird, too.

• 2:08:15Joe Rogan?

  That is wild.

• 2:08:16Speaker 02

  My god.

• 2:08:17Joe Rogan?

  They are just monsters. I mean, that's like Alien, from the movie Alien. That's what it's like. It's just little.

• 2:08:25Speaker 02

  The, my entire mind has been blown.

• 2:08:28Joe Rogan?

  Right? Look at that. That's what a praying mantis can do. Hang upside down while it's eating a bird.

• 2:08:33Speaker 02

  And literally hanging on to the petals of a flower.

• 2:08:37Joe Rogan?

  Like it's nothing.

• 2:08:38Speaker 02

  Upside down.

• 2:08:39Joe Rogan?

  And with no strain at all.

• 2:08:40Speaker 02

  None whatsoever.

• 2:08:42Joe Rogan?

  It's carrying a fucking bird that's like, five times bigger than its body.

• 2:08:46Speaker 02

  Like a barn swallow.

• 2:08:47Joe Rogan?

  It's crazy!

• 2:08:48Speaker 02

  Oh my god.

• 2:08:49Joe Rogan?

  The crazy thing is these stupid lizards that think they're gonna eat him.

• 2:08:52Speaker 02

  Oh my god.

• 2:08:53Joe Rogan?

  I mean, it is such a bizarre creature.

• 2:08:56Speaker 02

  I don't wanna see any of this.

• 2:08:57Joe Rogan?

  Look at that one.

• 2:08:58Speaker 02

  That poor, that poor little beauty.

• 2:08:59Joe Rogan?

  Oh, they do it all the time. They get hummingbirds. So he's just, oh.

• 2:09:03Speaker 04

  A lot of these have no action though too, I've seen.

• 2:09:05Speaker 02

  Oh my god.

• 2:09:06Speaker 04

  People trying to capture stuff. But these go back as long as YouTube does. Some of those are 15 year old videos.

• 2:09:12Joe Rogan?

  That's.

• 2:09:12Speaker 02

  Those are the ones I would try. Oh, but they get them so quickly. Why do they stop moving so quickly?

• 2:09:16Joe Rogan?

  They're so fast.

• 2:09:17Speaker 02

  Cause they're so strong too.

• 2:09:18Speaker 04

  This one looks.

• 2:09:20Joe Rogan?

  That one looks fake.

• 2:09:20Speaker 04

  AI, I mean, now it's created within four weeks, I start going, alright.

• 2:09:23Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that looks, that looks like AI.

• 2:09:25Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:09:25Joe Rogan?

  That's AI. But the other ones are, those cellphone ones are real. They're just unbelievably strong.

• 2:09:31Speaker 02

  That's crazy. I had no idea.

• 2:09:32Joe Rogan?

  And if there's like a spaceship filled with those fuckers.

• 2:09:35Speaker 02

  We're screwed.

• 2:09:35Joe Rogan?

  And they're all smart. They're way smarter than us.

• 2:09:37Speaker 02

  We're done. I think I saw a three year old boy getting ready to take on a praying mantis too. I think he's gonna lose in one of those videos. So, future generations are not looking good right now.

• 2:09:46Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, if you walk up to a mantis, they'll be like, what bitch? They'll stand up.

• 2:09:50Speaker 02

  They will, on their hind legs.

• 2:09:50Joe Rogan?

  They're ready to fight.

• 2:09:51Speaker 02

  And they will.

• 2:09:52Joe Rogan?

  We're just lucky they're little.

• 2:09:55Joe Rogan?

  Right?

• 2:09:55Speaker 02

  It's terrifying. It's absolutely, I'm gonna go home and, and tell my husband all about this. Not my daughter.

• 2:10:00Joe Rogan?

  So that's what they have to think about with this 31 Atlas. If it's, if it's filled with reptilians, then we got problems.

• 2:10:07Speaker 02

  Oh my god, I cannot laugh at children. Oh no. See, I told you there was one. Oh, Jesus. Oh, god.

• 2:10:13Joe Rogan?

  He's just, he's like, fuck you, he tried to eat the baby.

• 2:10:16Speaker 02

  He did. He tried to eat the baby.

• 2:10:19Joe Rogan?

  That's how gangster praying mantises are.

• 2:10:21Speaker 02

  Oh my god, it went after that baby. He was like, fuck you, I will eat your entire body.

• 2:10:26Joe Rogan?

  The thing that's crazy is.

• 2:10:27Speaker 02

  Before someone comes to rescue you.

• 2:10:28Joe Rogan?

  We don't think of them as being like vicious.

• 2:10:31Speaker 02

  No, I look at them and think that they're super cool. Like, I, I would have been that three year old kid if I'd ever seen one in our yard. I would have been like, hey, honey.

• 2:10:39Speaker 04

  A regular like green mantis. They've, there are some wild mantises out there.

• 2:10:43Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:10:44Speaker 02

  Stop, there's more?

• 2:10:45Joe Rogan?

  Look at that one.

• 2:10:45Speaker 04

  Kung fu mantis.

• 2:10:46Joe Rogan?

  Wow, look at that one. Those are beautiful. What, what is that one called? Kung fu mantis?

• 2:10:52Speaker 04

  Kung fu, yeah.

• 2:10:53Joe Rogan?

  What a beautiful looking insect. Just imagine a planet where that's the size of a horse.

• 2:11:00Speaker 02

  No, we're fucked if that's what's on this copper thing that's coming toward us.

• 2:11:05Joe Rogan?

  We just got super lucky that the insect world is small.

• 2:11:08Speaker 02

  It's true.

• 2:11:09Joe Rogan?

  Somehow or another, it worked out that way, where the insect world is small. Because if the insect world was as big as the mammal world, it would be a wash. It would be over.

• 2:11:18Speaker 02

  Like if they were the size of elephants?

• 2:11:19Joe Rogan?

  Well, if they're the size of dogs, they'd kill us all.

• 2:11:22Speaker 02

  That's true.

• 2:11:23Joe Rogan?

  Look at that fucking, that one praying mantis can do.

• 2:11:26Speaker 02

  It's true.

• 2:11:26Joe Rogan?

  Oh, look at that one. Looks like a flower.

• 2:11:29Speaker 02

  That's a praying mantis. What is that thing?

• 2:11:30Speaker 04

  Yeah, that's the, that's the one we were just looking at, this little guy.

• 2:11:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:11:34Speaker 04

  And that's a bigger one.

• 2:11:36Joe Rogan?

  Whoa.

• 2:11:36Speaker 04

  It's a big giant mantis.

• 2:11:37Speaker 02

  Holy shit.

• 2:11:38Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy.

• 2:11:39Speaker 04

  I don't know. We probably have to listen to the video to hear what kind it is.

• 2:11:42Joe Rogan?

  What is it, what is it gonna do? Like, where's, oh, its head's the white part in the front.

• 2:11:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, that thing. That looks like a...

• 2:11:48Speaker 04

  Does the arms folded up?

• 2:11:50Joe Rogan?

  Whoa.

• 2:11:50Speaker 02

  Wait, where's his arms folded up?

• 2:11:52Joe Rogan?

  Oh, his arms are folded right in front. Oh my goodness. Oh my goodness.

• 2:11:56Speaker 02

  Ah, he just, oh my god, he just bit its head off.

• 2:11:59Joe Rogan?

  Whoa.

• 2:11:59Speaker 02

  Whoa.

• 2:12:00Speaker 04

  Maybe they just mated, who knows?

• 2:12:02Joe Rogan?

  Jeez.

• 2:12:03Speaker 04

  That's what the females do after mating.

• 2:12:04Speaker 02

  They do. They just eat them.

• 2:12:06Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, they fuck up the men. Yeah, but that's, that's how you stay small. Nature's like, you're too fucking gangster. We have to keep you little.

• 2:12:15Speaker 02

  We have to keep you. It's like Chihuahuas.

• 2:12:17Joe Rogan?

  And honey badgers.

• 2:12:18Speaker 02

  And honey badgers, don't give a shit.

• 2:12:19Joe Rogan?

  Imagine if a honey badger was the size of a wolf, we'd have a real problem.

• 2:12:22Speaker 02

  We'd have a real problem. We'd have a real problem.

• 2:12:23Joe Rogan?

  They had to make them little so that they're so gangster, they just... They never could take over the whole forest.

• 2:12:29Speaker 02

  These fucking honey badgers just like...

• 2:12:31Joe Rogan?

  I can imagine if like a honey badger was the size of a horse and they'd just take over entire swaths of land. There probably were things like that.

• 2:12:41Speaker 02

  There probably were back in the day, and now we have chickens left.

• 2:12:45Joe Rogan?

  Do you have to keep up on a certain amount of sci-fi because of playing Starbuck? Do you feel like an obligation to your fans to like hold on to a certain amount of sci-fi information?

• 2:12:56Speaker 02

  Yes and no. I, I feel that I have to maintain and hold on to a respect for the genre and the knowledge that I will never have, that there are people that can come up to me and tell me... The entire history of Star Wars. And I, before I was in Star Wars, I considered myself a Star Wars fan. And then I got in Star Wars and I was like, oh, I don't know shit about anything.

• 2:13:24Joe Rogan?

  It's a big ass universe now.

• 2:13:26Speaker 02

  It is.

• 2:13:26Joe Rogan?

  Especially now. Keeping up on Mandalorian stuff, it's like.

• 2:13:30Speaker 02

  No, you can't keep up on anything. So I just, I always just say, I would love to know more about that. Can you please?

• 2:13:39Joe Rogan?

  That's good.

• 2:13:39Speaker 02

  Can you please enlighten me? Cause I don't know. I really don't know. And like these, you know, I have found that the sci-fi community, especially like one of my favorite things is going to conventions because I love, I just, I love meeting people and like new people and meeting the people that are fans of the work and we always have things in common and, and I would, I would be so bold as to, to say that sci-fi fans are some of the smartest,

• 2:14:09Speaker 02

  people I've ever met.

• 2:14:11Joe Rogan?

  I'm sure. They're all a lot of nerds.

• 2:14:13Speaker 02

  They're very, very, very smart. And, and um, I, I just, I can, I cannot compete with that. I can, I can tell you the lines that I can't forget. There are lines like from Battlestar Galactica, "We've got violent decompressions irradiating from the port flight pod." I thought I was gonna be fired because I couldn't say it. I had to write it down. I had to tape it to my Viper. I was like, oh my God, they're gonna find out. I'm, oh my God, like I'm, I, I shouldn't be here. This is crazy. I'm an imposter. And then I find, now I can't forget it. I had a line from Mandalorian that I couldn't remember for the life of me. And so I kept memorizing it with my husband and he was throwing tennis balls at my face. So we were, I was catching tennis balls as I was memorizing it.

• 2:14:57Joe Rogan?

  God, was that hard?

• 2:14:58Speaker 02

  It was very hard, but it was, "Pirate King Gorian Shard is captaining a cumulus-class corsair of violent snub fighters."

• 2:15:07Joe Rogan?

  Oh, Jesus.

• 2:15:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:15:09Joe Rogan?

  Oh, my God.

• 2:15:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was just like.

• 2:15:11Joe Rogan?

  Somebody hates you in the writers room.

• 2:15:12Speaker 02

  It's possible.

• 2:15:15Speaker 02

  You know, you never know.

• 2:15:17Joe Rogan?

  That seems so mean to make someone try to say that. You say it. Fucking you say it first.

• 2:15:21Speaker 02

  It's true. There are times I have, I have since like Ron Moore was on my podcast and I told him that like for 25 years I have not been able to forget this like violent decompressions line and he was like, I'm so sorry.

• 2:15:32Joe Rogan?

  That's hilarious. That's very funny.

• 2:15:34Speaker 02

  Cause he's aware, like he's aware that, you know, he's making actors say shit that you should never have to say in real life. Like, you know, and then furthermore, you have to try and decipher it, you know, like one of my jobs is to take something I don't understand and then say it with authority as if I do understand it. So I have to dissect it and learn what certain things mean. And if I don't understand it, I have to give it context in something that I do understand in order to like, sound like I am not an idiot.

• 2:16:01Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:16:02Speaker 02

  Which at times is hard. So, you know, it's, it's, it's, God, the, the jargon is, I learned the tennis ball technique with my husband though. That's a great technique.

• 2:16:11Joe Rogan?

  That sounds like a good technique. If you remember it while you're catching tennis balls, then you really remember it.

• 2:16:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:16:16Joe Rogan?

  That is a crazy sentence to try to remember.

• 2:16:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was not easy. It was not easy.

• 2:16:21Joe Rogan?

  You're a part of something that, that people in sci-fi that I think is very interesting. Sci-fi is, um, I think the genre of action that has the most badass women.

• 2:16:35Speaker 02

  Hundred percent. Yeah. At least it did. It did for a long time.

• 2:16:39Joe Rogan?

  I think the OG is obviously Sigourney Weaver.

• 2:16:42Speaker 02

  Hundred percent.

• 2:16:44Joe Rogan?

  That, I mean, that is like an aside. No one is like, oh, it's a strong female lead. That is an aside to an insane movie and an amazing performance. Like that last scene when she kills that thing?

• 2:16:59Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 2:17:00Joe Rogan?

  Oh.

• 2:17:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:17:02Joe Rogan?

  And that's 1979.

• 2:17:04Speaker 02

  Yes. Amazing. That character, when I saw that movie, I was like, I want to be her.

• 2:17:11Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:17:11Speaker 02

  Cause up till then I only wanted to be Bruce Willis. I wanted to like save the Nakadomi building, you know, like I wanted these, I loved action movies with my dad and, and when he started realizing that I had this affinity toward these movies, he started showing me movies with strong female leads. And Sigourney was the one where I saw that performance and, and she was everything. She was strong. She was capable. She was smart. She was feminine. She was funny. She was so, she was everything. And.

• 2:17:41Joe Rogan?

  And it was a perfect movie.

• 2:17:43Speaker 02

  It was a perfect movie. It was a perfect movie. Number two, possibly better even.

• 2:17:50Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, this is a scene which blows it out. Um, I disagree.

• 2:17:54Speaker 02

  You do?

• 2:17:54Joe Rogan?

  Yes. Cause number two, the aliens are too kill, easy to kill.

• 2:17:58Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 2:17:58Joe Rogan?

  This motherfucker is so hard to kill.

• 2:18:00Speaker 02

  So hard to kill.

• 2:18:01Joe Rogan?

  And then in the second one, they're just gunning him down.

• 2:18:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:18:03Joe Rogan?

  It was a different thing. It was a different thing. Look, they're both great movies. I really loved Aliens. But the thing about Alien, the first one, was that thing was re- amazing movie.

• 2:18:15Speaker 02

  Just the way that, I mean, just the, I mean, it's just such an amazing shot.

• 2:18:19Joe Rogan?

  It's a, it's a perfect movie.

• 2:18:21Speaker 02

  The framing of that is beautiful.

• 2:18:22Joe Rogan?

  There was never one moment in that movie where you saw what was coming next.

• 2:18:26Speaker 02

  Hmm. No, because we hadn't seen anything like it.

• 2:18:28Joe Rogan?

  Nothing.

• 2:18:29Speaker 02

  You know?

• 2:18:29Joe Rogan?

  The chestburster scene, I remember being in the movie theater.

• 2:18:32Speaker 02

  Look at the utter fucking exhaustion on her face.

• 2:18:37Joe Rogan?

  Crazy.

• 2:18:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:18:39Joe Rogan?

  The chestburster scene was like, what the fuck? What? I remember being in the movie theater. I had no idea that was gonna happen. There was no internet back then.

• 2:18:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:18:49Joe Rogan?

  Watching them like, this movie is nuts.

• 2:18:52Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 2:18:53Joe Rogan?

  And that little thing was running around on the ground and his chest was burst open.

• 2:18:57Speaker 02

  So gross.

• 2:18:57Joe Rogan?

  Everyone screaming, there's blood everywhere. It was wild.

• 2:19:01Speaker 02

  This is one of, probably, in my opinion, one of the best movies of all time.

• 2:19:06Joe Rogan?

  Oh, I agree. Hundred percent.

• 2:19:08Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 2:19:08Joe Rogan?

  And again, the fact that it was a strong female lead was just, it's a tiny little part of the movie. It was just, she was so good, you didn't even think, oh, it's a strong female lead. You're like,

• 2:19:19Speaker 02

  Well, no, because they didn't. Sigourney Weaver is a bad motherfucker. They didn't tell you this is a strong female lead.

• 2:19:24Joe Rogan?

  No, exactly.

• 2:19:25Speaker 02

  They just created a phenomenal character and made her a woman.

• 2:19:28Joe Rogan?

  Exactly. And she just played the part perfectly.

• 2:19:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:19:32Joe Rogan?

  This fucking scene was so nuts. It was so nuts. Cause you didn't know what is happening.

• 2:19:39Speaker 02

  I know.

• 2:19:39Joe Rogan?

  People have to realize, like, before movies were spoiled, there was no spoiler alerts back then. You didn't get to watch clips.

• 2:19:47Speaker 02

  But even just the way it shot, the frenetic energy of the camera.

• 2:19:50Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:19:51Speaker 02

  Matching the frenetic energy of his body.

• 2:19:53Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:19:56Joe Rogan?

  This is such a crazy scene.

• 2:19:58Speaker 02

  It's crazy. Ahhh!

• 2:20:02Joe Rogan?

  Bro.

• 2:20:03Speaker 02

  Ahhh!

• 2:20:06Joe Rogan?

  Again, 1979 this is happening. I mean, the special effects back then were nuts. To have something like, I mean, this is probably the greatest believable monster special effects in any movie up to this point. I mean, by far. That was a little bullshit. That one was like it was on wheels. That was a little silly.

• 2:20:27Speaker 02

  It's on a piece of string, someone's pulling it.

• 2:20:28Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it moved a little weird, but you know, it's an alien.

• 2:20:31Speaker 02

  You were still scared as shit, though.

• 2:20:32Joe Rogan?

  I'm still scared. But then, when you see the actual alien itself, you're like, what the hell is that? You never seen anything like that before. Not only was it completely unique in its design, it was horrific and it looked like an insect, like an insect and a reptile at the same time.

• 2:20:51Speaker 02

  Sci-fi was a place, because I, so I was a huge fan of strong women and genre work and I found myself gravitating toward sci-fi because that's where women existed that I identified with and I saw myself. Like, you know, I didn't see myself as like this, you know, well, the characters I played when I moved to California, they didn't, it didn't feel like me, you know?

• 2:21:19Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:21:21Speaker 02

  I really found sort of my calling, I guess, when I started watching those women and I loved Sarah Michelle Gellar and I loved Lucy Lawless and I loved Linda Hamilton and Carrie Fisher and like, a lot of these women that were just really, really great characters and they were written as great characters. And Starbuck was, and if you talked to Ron Moore about it, the reason why he made Starbuck and Boomer women, he didn't think about it. He just said, okay, we've got, these are the characters from the original, these are the characters we're gonna put in my version. Women are in the military.

• 2:22:02Speaker 02

  Women do exist in combat roles now and we are making this for, you know, the early aughts. We have to be representative of what the military looks like. We need to make a couple of these characters women. And he just said, this one and this one. He didn't even give it any thought, you know? And so I think part of the reason why they were so great, the characters were so great, was that they were just great characters.

• 2:22:30Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:22:30Speaker 02

  The writing was so great. There was never a time where they were like, she's the best female pilot around.

• 2:22:39Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:22:40Speaker 02

  You know, it was just-

• 2:22:40Joe Rogan?

  Like Lynda Hamilton in Terminator. It's like, she's just a great, it's just a great character.

• 2:22:44Speaker 02

  Just a great character. And with a motivation that we all can identify with. So it's, it's, and, and that's why she was such a great character and, and, you know, she opened so many doors for me and, and because then people started to believe that I was tough.

• 2:23:01Joe Rogan?

  And how many girls started doing chin ups after I saw Lynda Hamilton?

• 2:23:04Speaker 02

  Oh my god.

• 2:23:04Joe Rogan?

  In the Terminator.

• 2:23:05Speaker 02

  Please. And it's, chin ups are fucking hard.

• 2:23:08Joe Rogan?

  I know, she's jacked.

• 2:23:09Speaker 02

  She's jacked. I did a-

• 2:23:10Joe Rogan?

  She got so fit for that movie.

• 2:23:11Speaker 02

  I did a Spartan Race with my husband, cause my, on my podcast channel, I was, you know, during COVID and then like before COVID, we were, I was creating content of sort of like Katie did sort of stuff, like, I'd love to do this, let's film it and see what it's like. So we signed up for Spartan Race and then recorded the whole thing and, and my husband not only ran his race, but then ran my race too, like recording the whole thing. That's the hardest thing I've ever done, like getting in shape for that thing. I got in shape for six months before. That was hard.

• 2:23:41Joe Rogan?

  Oh yeah.

• 2:23:42Speaker 02

  And getting to a point where I actually could do chin ups and then also pull ups too, I was like, wow, I'm strong. I got felt so strong. At one point, so I get to the actual race and I'd been training with such heavy shit, that I got to the medicine ball where you have to pick it up, carry it and throw it, and then pick it up and carry it and throw it. And it was so light for me. And I was prepared for it to be like so heavy. I got to it and I picked it up and then like I threw it and it kept going. And I had to slow down because I had to go get the ball and bring it back to where it was supposed to be. I'd gotten almost too strong.

• 2:24:12Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that's hilarious.

• 2:24:13Speaker 02

  It was really awesome. It was so fun.

• 2:24:15Joe Rogan?

  It's nice to know that you can get strong though. That like, that feeling is a nice feeling. I wish everybody felt that.

• 2:24:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:24:22Joe Rogan?

  Get, get physically better. You'll feel better.

• 2:24:24Speaker 02

  But I had fun doing it. You know what I mean? And I also set myself a goal. I think that's really important too, like for some people that it's daunting, setting a goal and, and the goal doesn't need to be winning. The goal just needs to be finishing.

• 2:24:39Joe Rogan?

  Why do you think it is that like sci-fi in particular embraced these like gangster women characters?

• 2:24:47Speaker 02

  So my opinion on this?

• 2:24:49Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:24:50Speaker 02

  Is that I feel like because science fiction doesn't exist, because you're existing in these make-believe worlds.

• 2:24:58Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:24:58Speaker 02

  That strong women were not intimidating in sci-fi.

• 2:25:03Joe Rogan?

  Oh.

• 2:25:04Speaker 02

  Because we could be dismissed as not, but that wouldn't happen in real life.

• 2:25:07Joe Rogan?

  Interesting.

• 2:25:08Speaker 02

  So that's...

• 2:25:09Joe Rogan?

  Interesting.

• 2:25:10Speaker 02

  So men could then watch these roles.

• 2:25:13Joe Rogan?

  Right, not be threatened.

• 2:25:13Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm. That's my opinion.

• 2:25:15Joe Rogan?

  I bet, I bet you're right. I bet that's the only thing that makes sense, now that I'm thinking about it.

• 2:25:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think so.

• 2:25:22Joe Rogan?

  Because like, there's no female John Wick.

• 2:25:27Speaker 02

  No, no.

• 2:25:28Joe Rogan?

  Well, there is that one.

• 2:25:29Speaker 02

  Ballerina?

• 2:25:30Joe Rogan?

  No, that one, the Emily one, the one that Kevin James was in, it's a crazy movie about this young girl who

• 2:25:40Joe Rogan?

  just kills all these bad guys.

• 2:25:41Speaker 02

  I have no idea. I love Kevin.

• 2:25:43Joe Rogan?

  It's kind of like tongue-in-cheek, like...

• 2:25:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:25:45Joe Rogan?

  But it's hyper-violent, it's crazy. That's what it's called, right? Emily? I think there's two of them. There was one where they killed her dad and they killed her family, and so she killed everybody.

• 2:25:58Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 2:25:58Joe Rogan?

  And then she came, and then the second one, she came back and killed more people. It's like a young, cute girl who just knows how to kill everybody.

• 2:26:06Speaker 02

  I mean, look, it's kind of fun.

• 2:26:08Joe Rogan?

  It's funny. It's kind of fun. It's a funny movie.

• 2:26:10Speaker 02

  When I went through...

• 2:26:12Joe Rogan?

  What is it, Jamie?

• 2:26:12Speaker 04

  Not Megan?

• 2:26:14Joe Rogan?

  Whatever Kevin James was in, it was about a young girl who kills everybody.

• 2:26:18Speaker 02

  Kevin James?

• 2:26:19Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Kevin James was a bad guy. He was, he played a white supremacist.

• 2:26:23Speaker 04

  That movie's called Becky.

• 2:26:25Joe Rogan?

  Becky, that's it.

• 2:26:26Speaker 02

  Becky.

• 2:26:26Joe Rogan?

  Becky, yeah. Isn't there, there was a, there was a second one, though, right?

• 2:26:29Speaker 04

  Well, there's a movie called Emily, and there's a...

• 2:26:31Joe Rogan?

  No, what was the...

• 2:26:32Speaker 02

  Kevin James.

• 2:26:33Joe Rogan?

  No, it is Becky, you're right, but there was a movie before Becky, I believe.

• 2:26:37Speaker 02

  Seventy-two percent on Rotten Tomatoes, it's pretty good.

• 2:26:39Joe Rogan?

  Oh, it's fun!

• 2:26:40Speaker 04

  The Wrath of Becky also came out.

• 2:26:41Joe Rogan?

  That's right.

• 2:26:42Speaker 02

  I just saw Ballerina.

• 2:26:43Joe Rogan?

  That's it.

• 2:26:44Speaker 02

  I actually thought that was really good.

• 2:26:45Joe Rogan?

  That's the first one, right?

• 2:26:46Speaker 04

  No, this is the second one.

• 2:26:47Joe Rogan?

  That's the second one.

• 2:26:48Speaker 04

  This is the first one.

• 2:26:49Joe Rogan?

  I thought there was a prelude to, either way.

• 2:26:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:26:53Joe Rogan?

  Fun-ass movie.

• 2:26:54Speaker 02

  Oh, Joel McHale's in it.

• 2:26:55Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah, he's great.

• 2:26:56Speaker 02

  Fun.

• 2:26:57Joe Rogan?

  It's a fun-ass movie.

• 2:26:58Speaker 02

  Um...

• 2:26:58Joe Rogan?

  But it's like, that's the female John Wick.

• 2:27:00Speaker 02

  Well, I think everybody's trying to create these like, strong female characters now, and I think that one of the biggest problems with a lot of them is that they're... They're not focusing on the character to begin with, like we talked about, like, write a strong character.

• 2:27:16Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:27:17Speaker 02

  And then just make her a woman.

• 2:27:18Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:27:19Speaker 02

  You know, like.

• 2:27:19Joe Rogan?

  Don't write a strong character that you have to have a woman.

• 2:27:22Speaker 02

  Right. Don't, I think that's part of it, because they're all trying to create, there are so many of them now, right?

• 2:27:29Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:27:29Speaker 02

  And I love to see them and I love to give them chances, but a lot of times the, the, I want to also see somebody that's believable in the role as well, right? Um, like, one of the funnest, the things that I love to do is transform my body depending on what character I'm playing. Um, within reason, there's only so much I can do or that I want to do, but, you know, for my show Another Life, I, my character wakes up from cryo, I wanted her to look like dehydrated and sinewy and like, really, really, really lean, like, almost unhealthy lean. And I got myself down to such a low body fat, it was crazy.

• 2:28:08Joe Rogan?

  What did you eat to get down like that?

• 2:28:10Speaker 02

  Uh, fourteen hu- fourteen fifty a day. Um, fifteen hu- fifteen fifty a day, something around that, that time, um, when I was cutting. Um, but I packed on muscle and then cut, like, really hard for like, uh, three weeks before. Um, and I was eating a lot of protein. Um, and I got myself so low that my menstruation stopped. And I was like, oh, this is too low. This is really low.

• 2:28:38Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that happens with a lot of marathon runners.

• 2:28:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was quite low, but I, I got to where I wanted to be, I looked the way I wanted to look, and then I naturally put on, you know, a healthy amount of weight as the series went on, which is what I wanted to do anyway.

• 2:28:51Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 2:28:52Speaker 02

  But, so I want to see, not someone do something detrimental to their health necessarily, but I, I do want to, I want to see the muscle, I want to see the capability in a character that's kicking ass, you know?

• 2:29:02Joe Rogan?

  Right, you want it to be believable.

• 2:29:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:29:05Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:29:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:29:07Joe Rogan?

  Like, when they all got in insane shape for that movie Three Hundred.

• 2:29:12Speaker 02

  Oh, my god, it's like, that would be like.

• 2:29:16Speaker 02

  The best job in the world for me. If they're like, we're gonna give you tons of time and tons of money to just get in the best shape of your life.

• 2:29:23Joe Rogan?

  Here's some trainers. We got like six months.

• 2:29:26Speaker 02

  Let's do it.

• 2:29:27Joe Rogan?

  There was a lot of people that thought that they used AI for that. They used some AI for sure, because that was a crazy movie.

• 2:29:32Speaker 02

  For three hundred?

• 2:29:33Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:29:34Speaker 02

  While they used-

• 2:29:34Joe Rogan?

  Three hundred had a lot of AI, because it was-

• 2:29:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, I don't know.

• 2:29:38Joe Rogan?

  Excuse me, I should say not AI, I should say CGI.

• 2:29:40Speaker 02

  It had CGI, for sure.

• 2:29:42Joe Rogan?

  That's what I should say.

• 2:29:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:29:43Joe Rogan?

  Because, obviously, the giant Persian king was not really that big. There was, there was a lot of like fantasy elements of that.

• 2:29:51Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:29:51Joe Rogan?

  But I think they really did get in insane shape. And a lot of people like dismissed that and said, that's CGI. But there's videos of those guys working out, like getting ready, yeah, look at these guys, just going crazy, getting ready to film this movie. I mean, they trained like animals.

• 2:30:07Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:30:11Joe Rogan?

  So you could see them all working out. So, they really did just develop incredible bodies. Which, the nutty thing is, anybody can do. You just have to do it. Do what they did, you'll get a lot better.

• 2:30:23Speaker 02

  It's a lot of hard work, though. It's not that easy. Yes, it, it's, on paper is easy, but like, being a mom of two kids, though.

• 2:30:30Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:30:31Speaker 02

  Like, it's, and having a job, I, in the last two years, I, I, it, I'm hard pressed to find time to work out. And I wake up at five o'clock in the morning, so I'm awake before my kids. And, you know, I choose during that time to, you know, meditate, write in my journal, breathe, take time to myself, and then they wake up. I haven't quite figured out how to fit in my workouts.

• 2:30:55Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's an obligation that's very different, right? You're a mother, you know, and that you're doing the absolute right thing. You're dedicating all your time to being a mom when you're there. Like, that's just how it is. But, for, you know-

• 2:31:10Joe Rogan?

  For the amount of hours that are in a day, it would be nice if you could just get a little time to yourself. As they get older, you'll have more time to yourself.

• 2:31:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:31:20Joe Rogan?

  And then you'll be able to get back on track. But

• 2:31:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:31:23Joe Rogan?

  For people that have the time and don't do it, that's the wasted potential of your resources. Like, you don't have to do a lot. Just do some body squats and do some pushups and

• 2:31:35Speaker 02

  And you don't need a lot of equipment either. I think that's the thing. I think that we've made physical fitness in some way, because it's an industry, I think we've made it daunting for a lot of people. And, you know, I think that, that if you just focus on the things, the tried and true. Like, you can do that stuff in your house without weights or with things that are heavy in your house. You know, you can actually make progress.

• 2:31:56Joe Rogan?

  Sure. And if you don't know anybody to teach you how to do stuff, all you have to do is go on YouTube. Just go on YouTube and look up beginner body weight workout. I'm sure there's a bunch of them out there.

• 2:32:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:32:06Joe Rogan?

  And you can do stuff with no physical fitness equipment, just do pushups and situps and body weight squats, and you can get a great workout in that way.

• 2:32:13Speaker 02

  It's true.

• 2:32:13Joe Rogan?

  And nobody has to watch you. You don't have to feel

• 2:32:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:32:16Joe Rogan?

  self-conscious. Just you and your phone.

• 2:32:17Speaker 02

  Shit, you can go to my YouTube channel, because during COVID, I was doing my workouts. And I said to my husband, I was like, might as well record this shit and put it out there. So, yeah, and all of them are fun and interesting and easy. And people still come up to me and they're like, I lost, you know, a man came up to me at a convention the other day, said he lost over eighty pounds doing the workouts that I put and signed up for a Spartan race. And I was like, that's awesome. I love that. That's so cool.

• 2:32:44Joe Rogan?

  That's very cool. See, that's a great thing. They're your fans. They see you working. I'm like, oh my god, I'm gonna work out with her.

• 2:32:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:32:50Joe Rogan?

  And everybody works out together.

• 2:32:51Speaker 02

  Great. Yeah.

• 2:32:52Joe Rogan?

  See, that's the great use of the internet.

• 2:32:54Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 2:32:55Joe Rogan?

  The internet has a lot of great uses.

• 2:32:56Speaker 02

  You can learn anything on the internet.

• 2:32:58Joe Rogan?

  You can learn anything. You can find out stuff, how to make things and fix things and get information about something you never thought you were interested in. Like, look, you never thought that praying mantises were so scary.

• 2:33:09Speaker 02

  And now I know. But you know what I'm doing?

• 2:33:11Joe Rogan?

  What?

• 2:33:12Speaker 02

  I'm now already in my head trying to write a children's book about praying mantis.

• 2:33:17Joe Rogan?

  Oh, you are?

• 2:33:17Speaker 02

  I am. It's like, that's my ADHD. Like, I'm already

• 2:33:21Joe Rogan?

  You started once you saw that?

• 2:33:22Speaker 02

  Once I did.

• 2:33:22Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that's hilarious.

• 2:33:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:33:24Joe Rogan?

  Well, I want a copy of that book. It'll probably be cool.

• 2:33:28Speaker 02

  It's gonna be a pop-up book.

• 2:33:29Joe Rogan?

  They're scary.

• 2:33:30Speaker 02

  So every time you move it, the praying mantis is like, pff.

• 2:33:32Joe Rogan?

  We just, for some reason, miss them. When we're describing the most ruthless animals on earth, we miss the praying mantis because they might be the gangster of gangsters.

• 2:33:42Speaker 02

  I think they might be. Do they ever attack together? Do they work in coordination?

• 2:33:46Joe Rogan?

  That's a good question. If they did, they'd be unstoppable.

• 2:33:49Speaker 02

  Because that would be...

• 2:33:49Joe Rogan?

  That's Starship Troopers.

• 2:33:50Speaker 02

  That would be like if a bunch of women, like, cycled their periods. They could, we could take over the world.

• 2:33:55Joe Rogan?

  Right. Especially with those headsets. You've got Google headsets on.

• 2:33:58Speaker 02

  We could really, because then we just talk to each other. Like, shit would be, that would be on fi- like, it would be on fire.

• 2:34:05Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:34:06Speaker 02

  We'd like, you know, take over some crazy shit.

• 2:34:08Joe Rogan?

  For sure.

• 2:34:08Speaker 02

  That would be awesome. That would be awesome.

• 2:34:11Joe Rogan?

  Well, maybe that's a good use of technology. I know you're anti-AI. Maybe for that.

• 2:34:15Speaker 02

  I am anti-AI because I am in self-preservation mode here.

• 2:34:18Joe Rogan?

  I get it.

• 2:34:19Speaker 02

  I am desperate to be like, I am, I matter, damn it.

• 2:34:28Speaker 02

  Not just to my family.

• 2:34:30Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:34:30Speaker 02

  You know?

• 2:34:31Joe Rogan?

  I know, I think we're all gonna be like that soon.

• 2:34:34Speaker 02

  I don't know. I don't think so. I think it'll, we'll, we'll always find a place. You just have to be malleable and you have to figure out where to, you know, I don't know, adjust.

• 2:34:46Joe Rogan?

  Yes. Yeah, there's gonna be some pivoting, for sure.

• 2:34:49Speaker 02

  A lot of pivoting.

• 2:34:50Joe Rogan?

  Um, how often do you do your podcasts?

• 2:34:53Speaker 02

  So, my podcast is once a week, every Tuesday.

• 2:34:55Joe Rogan?

  What's it called?

• 2:34:56Speaker 02

  It's called The Sack Off Show.

• 2:34:59Speaker 02

  It was called blah, blah, blah, but people couldn't find it.

• 2:35:02Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that's funny.

• 2:35:02Speaker 02

  Um, so, we just changed it to The Sack Off Show and, um, we're actually, like I said, doing, uh, in the new year, a Battlestar Galactica re-watch as well. Because I've, like I said, I've never seen it. So I'm curious to do that.

• 2:35:15Joe Rogan?

  That's kinda crazy that you've never seen it. The Sack Off Show sounds funny, too. It's like, it's your last name, but it's also, it's like, it's like a fun name for a show.

• 2:35:23Speaker 02

  Well, we'll see.

• 2:35:24Joe Rogan?

  It's got a good rhyme to it.

• 2:35:25Speaker 02

  It is fun. I have a lot of fun. I'm just trying to be, like, you know, a tenth as good at it as you are, Joe.

• 2:35:32Joe Rogan?

  Oh, sweet.

• 2:35:32Speaker 02

  Well, you're very good at this.

• 2:35:33Joe Rogan?

  Thank you.

• 2:35:34Speaker 02

  There's a reason why you're the best at it. You've been doing it a long time and, you know, you worked your ass off.

• 2:35:40Joe Rogan?

  Well, uh, I'll just tell you what I did. I just talk to people that I'm interested in. That's it. That's all you have to do.

• 2:35:46Speaker 02

  I do that. It's really hard to, to, um...

• 2:35:50Speaker 02

  Find the right audience in an oversaturated market.

• 2:35:54Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:35:54Speaker 02

  But it's happening.

• 2:35:56Joe Rogan?

  It is oversaturated.

• 2:35:57Speaker 02

  It is.

• 2:35:58Joe Rogan?

  But it doesn't mean it's inaccessible. If you're remarkable, you could pop through. And sometimes maybe it just takes coming on here and then people will hear about it and go watch it.

• 2:36:07Speaker 02

  And I'll be like, who's Katie Sackam? She's that chick from Dinosaur Galactica?

• 2:36:12Joe Rogan?

  But you seem like you'd be an awesome podcaster.

• 2:36:15Speaker 02

  I have fun. I love talking to people and I, it literally helped me figure out that I was ADHD because I couldn't, I couldn't not talk on top of people. I was like, I listened, I listened. I did. My first interview was Bryce Dallas Howard, God love her, and I listened to it back in the car with my husband. And I was like, oh my God, I don't stop talking.

• 2:36:44Joe Rogan?

  Do you wear headsets?

• 2:36:46Speaker 02

  I do.

• 2:36:47Joe Rogan?

  You do?

• 2:36:47Speaker 02

  I do.

• 2:36:48Joe Rogan?

  That helps a lot because you hear the talk, the over talking, which we all tend to do sometimes accidentally. Because sometimes you don't know when to come in. But the, it's a learned skill. It's a learned skill like everything else. It's like everything else. And you have to learn different people, learn the dance of different people. Some people have just a different thing. And always, in my mind, my number one goal is to try to make the, get the most out of them. Like get them to like have the most fun, the most.

• 2:37:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:37:20Joe Rogan?

  Get the questions that stir their interest the most. Like something, I want to know who you are, like for real, for real.

• 2:37:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:37:26Joe Rogan?

  Like I want to like help you be the best version of you that you can when you're doing it.

• 2:37:32Speaker 02

  That's sort of my thing as well. Like I wanted to, you know, one of the things that came out of COVID for me was that, and I don't know about you, but I had weekly conversations with girlfriends I hadn't talked to in years. And we would like every Tuesday at four o'clock, we'd have a drink and connect again. And the conversations were wonderful because we had the time to have them again.

• 2:37:50Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:37:51Speaker 02

  And then I started going back to conventions and in the green room, I was having these wonderful conversations with people. And I was like, God, I wish I could record these because they're really authentic. And you're getting to see people in a very different light and they're really opening up because it's not like a gotcha podcast. Like, you know, if you want to cut something out, you can cut something out. Like, I'm not here to like ruin your career, you know?

• 2:38:16Joe Rogan?

  Right, right.

• 2:38:17Speaker 02

  And. The conversations are really interesting and people are talking about things that they've never spoken about and it's just really fun. So I've really enjoyed it.

• 2:38:29Joe Rogan?

  Well, don't you think like you're learning in the process as well? Isn't that like one of the more fun parts of it? The more you get to talk to interesting people, the more you learn, the more you understand how other people think and how they feel about stuff.

• 2:38:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, and it inspires the shit out of me.

• 2:38:44Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, me too.

• 2:38:45Speaker 02

  You know, like if I have like a month where I'm not hustling and someone comes on the podcast and they're like, I got six things in production. I'm doing this. I wrote an album. I've got a book coming out. Man, I got six kids. I'm like, fuck.

• 2:38:58Joe Rogan?

  There's a balance to be had though, isn't there?

• 2:39:00Speaker 02

  Oh, of course there is. Of course there is. And I think that I've found the right balance. I have the right partner that's like super supportive and we're a real good team.

• 2:39:10Speaker 02

  And yeah, it's just, it's, I've got, I think I've got the right balance. But there's always going to be hustling me. That's just-

• 2:39:16Joe Rogan?

  Of course. You seem like you're well balanced though. That's, it's a good thing to see.

• 2:39:19Speaker 02

  I try. You should ask my husband. He'd be like, that bitch is crazy. What?

• 2:39:23Joe Rogan?

  I'm just gonna go on my instincts. I don't want to hear any contrary data. Well, thank you very much for being here. This was a lot of fun. I really enjoyed it.

• 2:39:31Speaker 02

  Thank you for having me.

• 2:39:31Joe Rogan?

  And I was a huge fan of you on the show, so.

• 2:39:33Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 2:39:33Joe Rogan?

  It was cool to meet you.

• 2:39:34Speaker 02

  Well, more things to come, I promise. I've got some, some really cool jobs in the, in the can that are-

• 2:39:39Joe Rogan?

  Cool. Well, let's do it again.

• 2:39:41Speaker 02

  Me kicking ass again.

• 2:39:41Joe Rogan?

  Let's do it again sometime. I'd love to have you in here again.

• 2:39:43Speaker 02

  I would love that. You'll have to come on my podcast.

• 2:39:45Joe Rogan?

  I'll do it. I'll do it. Bye, everybody.

• 2:39:48Speaker 02

  Bye.

• 2:40:02Joe Rogan?

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