#2313 - Jillian Michaels

Jillian Michaels is a fitness expert, certified nutritionist, author, and television personality known for "The Biggest Loser" and "Losing It With Jillian." She is the host of the podcast "Keeping It Real: Conversations with Jillian Michaels." www.jillianmichaels.com 50% off flowers & more with code JOE50 at checkout. Visit https://www.doordash.com/p/mothers-day Take 50% off a SimpliSafe system at simplisafe.com/ROGAN Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  The Joe Rogan Experience. Training by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day.

• 0:12Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 0:13Joe Rogan?

  Good to see ya.

• 0:14Speaker 01

  You too.

• 0:15Joe Rogan?

  We were just talking about boomers, about parents, parents that they don't want to believe anything other than what they're getting from the news.

• 0:24Speaker 01

  It's been a challenge. My dad is an absolute lost cause. My mom is now open to the conversation and she'll send me a bunch of different articles and then she'll allow me to disseminate from my perspective, but it's been, it's been a rough ride.

• 0:41Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I've got them on peptides now, which is nice.

• 0:44Speaker 01

  Same.

• 0:45Joe Rogan?

  And I've got my, my stepdad on testosterone replacement, which is nice and he's seeing benefits of those things. So it's like they're slowly starting to incorporate some of these things, but their whole life, they've been told that the doctor knows everything and that the news is always correct and anything contrary to the news is bullshit.

• 1:04Speaker 01

  But arguably, when our parents were our age, it was reliable.

• 1:11Joe Rogan?

  I don't think so.

• 1:12Speaker 01

  No?

• 1:13Joe Rogan?

  No, I think it's always been compromised. I just think there was no alternatives.

• 1:16Speaker 01

  That's interesting.

• 1:17Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's what I think.

• 1:18Speaker 01

  My mom is a psychoanalyst, PhD. This is a very educated, thoughtful woman, and...

• 1:25Joe Rogan?

  Sometimes that's the worst.

• 1:26Speaker 01

  No, no, she's, I would argue against in this case. I do appreciate people who see flaws in psychoanalysis, but I've learned a huge amount from my mom in this, in this area. And she also, she majored in journalism before changing careers to psychoanalysis. And so for her to even wrap her head around the fact that journalism can be compromised is almost inconceivable.

• 1:50Joe Rogan?

  Right. I didn't mean psychoanalysis is bad. What I meant is that a lot of times educated people defer to other educated people. Like they're an expert, their field, so they assume that all the other experts in their field are also correct. And any heretic is just a fool.

• 2:06Speaker 01

  I would happen to agree with that point, yeah.

• 2:10Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's why, we were talking about Fauci on the way in, and both of my parents... Could arguably canonize the guy, you know, or now, I think I've broken through with my mom, but it has taken me since, since your episode with Bret Weinstein in March of 2020, I have been working on it.

• 2:29Joe Rogan?

  Ah.

• 2:30Speaker 01

  We're getting there, though. We're there. Like, ah, we are there. It's been five years.

• 2:35Joe Rogan?

  Isn't that crazy that was five years ago?

• 2:37Speaker 01

  It was like yesterday. I'll never forget it.

• 2:39Joe Rogan?

  Five years ago. And I remember when that episode came out, people were freaking out like, what are you doing? What is Brett doing? This is bullshit. You're, you're gonna get us all killed.

• 2:47Speaker 01

  It made perfect sense to me.

• 2:49Joe Rogan?

  Well, he was right, clearly. And yet, still, no apologies, no corrections, except the government website. The COVID-19 website is now up, and this has to be because of Bobby Kennedy.

• 3:00Speaker 01

  I, hey, I mean, the New York Times is like, oh, looks, looks like this came from a lab. It's like, you, really?

• 3:06Joe Rogan?

  Well, the best part about it was they're like, we were misled. Yeah, you were misled by you, you fuckers.

• 3:11Speaker 01

  I know.

• 3:12Joe Rogan?

  You did it.

• 3:12Speaker 01

  Isn't that?

• 3:13Joe Rogan?

  You did it.

• 3:13Speaker 01

  It's disgusting, and there are zero apologies.

• 3:16Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 3:17Speaker 01

  Zero course corrections, and they unveil this information as though they are the purveyors of truth.

• 3:23Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 3:24Speaker 01

  Guys, we've got a headline.

• 3:25Joe Rogan?

  You're a little late.

• 3:26Speaker 01

  This came from a lab.

• 3:27Joe Rogan?

  You're a half a decade late.

• 3:28Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 3:29Joe Rogan?

  You know what's really interesting? We've been talking about this a lot lately, that imagine if the roles were reversed and if podcasters were the ones yelling and everybody to go out and take these experimental shots, and then they were experiencing all these complications and all these side effects. Mainstream news would be chastising us, like, how dare you give people the advice to go out and do that? You're responsible for these people having all these side effects and all these unnecessary deaths and all these people that would have had no problem with COVID. You encouraged them to take this vaccine, and they had strokes, and they had this, and they had that. They'd be calling for us to get shut down.

• 4:02Speaker 01

  I actually did that. I did not know any better, and I was pitched a vaccine scientist, and I thought like, oh, this is great. Yeah, come on, come on the show. I didn't know the vaccine. Was gene therapy. I had no idea. So I knew it came from a lab. That made perfect sense to me. And I was like, oh, well, this is very clear. It's not, you know, from a wet market. But I was my someone reached out to a producer of mine and said, you know, we've got this person who was a scientist who worked on the vaccine that wants to educate people. And I thought I was doing this major public service. I've had to apologize for that podcast and I've left it up.

• 4:41Joe Rogan?

  What was the scientist?

• 4:43Speaker 01

  I cannot, Joe, I cannot remember her name. She was actually young. And the reason I remember that she was in her 30s is because she told me, oh, this tech has been around for 30 years. And I thought, but you're only you're like 35. No, no, we've been we've been evolving this technology for 30 years. And you see all of these trials for safety. It's just bureaucracy. I didn't understand what it meant to push something through that emergency use loophole at the time.

• 5:12Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 5:13Speaker 01

  I didn't understand the difference of, oh, this is a dead pathogen, and this is a live pathogen, and we're worried about adjuvants. But this here, this is gene therapy. I didn't even begin to comprehend what that was, what it meant, or the fact that we would fuck around with something that was experimental. And the scariest part is I had been talking with a woman named Brian Dresen, who was injured during the AstraZeneca COVID-19 trials. And the NIH was studying all of the people that had been injured during the vaccine trials, as they ruled out the vaccine with no concerns and lied about every component from it stays in the shoulder, it's out of the body in 24 hours, until you find out,

• 5:58Speaker 01

  no, it's coated in lipid nanoparticles, and it could cross the blood brain barrier. Oops.

• 6:02Joe Rogan?

  Now they're finding out that people can still produce spike protein because of the injections for over 700 days.

• 6:07Speaker 01

  And you can shed supposedly.

• 6:09Joe Rogan?

  You give it to your partner.

• 6:10Speaker 01

  It's insane.

• 6:11Joe Rogan?

  Crazy.

• 6:12Speaker 01

  And now they're I mean, I'm certainly not an expert in mRNA tech. But now we're fast tracking other vaccines that utilize the same technology. And I know for one, I don't think I'll take an mRNA vaccine ever. It scares the crap out of me.

• 6:29Joe Rogan?

  Well, you've heard Bret Weinstein talk about the flaws and just the technology itself. And that, you know, the fact that when it gets into your body, if it gets especially, you know, the thing is, nobody aspirated, right? They didn't inject people and pull back to make sure they're not on a blood vessel. They just plunged it, including when they, they did it live with Biden on television.

• 6:50Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 6:51Joe Rogan?

  Which, I don't think that was a vaccine. I said to this day, people are like, yo, what, you conspiracy theorist? Yeah, I think, yeah, I'm telling you right now, I think it's a conspiracy. I don't think they would take a chance in injecting a fucking 80-year-old man when you know that you have to like, stay there at the clinic for 20 minutes in case you drop dead.

• 7:10Speaker 01

  You can't have someone.

• 7:11Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 7:11Speaker 01

  You know, my wife's friend, um, her friend's son actually had the COVID vaccine and the flu vaccine on the same day.

• 7:20Joe Rogan?

  Oy.

• 7:21Speaker 01

  He did supposedly stay for 15 minutes, got in the car, must have passed out or had a seizure. Hit a tree and died.

• 7:29Joe Rogan?

  Jesus.

• 7:30Speaker 01

  Had a crazy reaction to it. I know, I'm not trying to, I'm not trying to promote this anti-vax position, but.

• 7:37Joe Rogan?

  But that's not a vaccine.

• 7:38Speaker 01

  Yes, exactly.

• 7:39Joe Rogan?

  Calling it a vaccine is fucking crazy.

• 7:40Speaker 01

  That's exactly it.

• 7:41Joe Rogan?

  It was a totally experimental gene therapy. And what Brett was saying about it is if you don't aspirate, you're shooting it right into a blood vessel. If you're shooting it right into a blood vessel, it could go to all sorts of areas of the body where the body's going to attack it like it's a disease, particularly the heart. And it's like, this is why you get myocarditis, because the heart doesn't heal, which is why you don't get heart cancer. Your heart just scars over. So people have these inflamed, enlarged hearts and then diminished cardiovascular function. And he was talking about this way earlier than anybody else. And there were blood on his hands, he's killing grandmas and the vaccine saved millions of lives. People say that all the time. They've saved millions of lives. Like, how?

• 8:24Joe Rogan?

  If people still got COVID, not only that, they got more COVID than people that didn't get vaccinated.

• 8:29Speaker 01

  I am still having this, this exact debate, actually, with, with my mom, who's like, but honey, it saved million. And you know what's crazy? Have you actually tried to Google that information? Because you can make a case for that based on what will come up on Google. And she's like, but look right here, it says it saved millions of lives.

• 8:48Joe Rogan?

  But you know, it's only based on the idea that those people would have died if they didn't have COVID.

• 8:54Speaker 01

  Right.

• 8:54Joe Rogan?

  And the problem, the problem is you're gonna get COVID anyway. So that data's bullshit. Not only that, even when people got COVID, 99.07 of those fuckers lived.

• 9:07Speaker 01

  I just.

• 9:08Joe Rogan?

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• 9:51Joe Rogan?

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• 10:35Joe Rogan?

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• 11:18Joe Rogan?

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• 11:49Speaker 01

  Pulled that up?

• 11:50Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 11:50Speaker 01

  Because I was trying to illustrate that point. I was like, do you realize that I think the percentage of mortality with this is like 1%? And when you look at it-

• 12:00Joe Rogan?

  Less, considerably less.

• 12:02Speaker 01

  .03, all the way up till you hit about 80 years old.

• 12:06Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 12:07Speaker 01

  And then it's like, well, 1% or so, 1.5 maybe, in 80-year-olds are morbidly obese or severely autoimmune, you know, immunocompromised.

• 12:16Joe Rogan?

  When you have 330 million people in this country, and then, you know, you look at that 0.3%, that starts looking like a lot of people. But those are just people that are on death's door. That's the reality. Metabolically unhealthy, obese, diabetes, all sorts of problems, cancer, leukemia, on chemotherapy. Those are the people that died.

• 12:40Speaker 01

  I remember when Bill Maher was talking about how it was people who, there was a study that came out of the CDC and forgive me because I don't remember the exact percentage, but it was upwards of 80% of the people who died or had severe cases of COVID were obese or overweight. And this is when, you know, you could be healthy at any size. That psyop was in full effect.

• 13:04Joe Rogan?

  That must have drove you crazy.

• 13:05Speaker 01

  Oh, I was, I, I was completely unraveling. People ask me, like, what happened? You were a good liberal.

• 13:14Joe Rogan?

  You're still a good liberal. If you go back to the old definition.

• 13:19Speaker 01

  I haven't changed.

• 13:20Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, nor have I.

• 13:21Speaker 01

  I go issue by issue with my friends.

• 13:23Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 13:24Speaker 01

  And I'm like, you show me where I've shifted my position on any issue outside of Trump. I used to think he was Hitlerian and he was going to round up all the gays and we were all fucked. None of that happened. I thought Russia, Russia, Russia. I thought that was real. So as new evidence came to light and I managed to survive his first term intact, along with, you know, my gay relationships, I somehow started to feel that maybe a lot of that was bullshit propaganda. But outside of that, not one of my positions has changed. Not one. And I find that arguably the right is more welcoming and more tolerant now.

• 14:05Speaker 01

  I can sit down and have a conversation with Matt Walsh and debate gay marriage in a civil fashion. And I ended up, again, like, I bring up Bill because I, I work with Bill in some capacity on his podcast network and I was having to defend him on Piers Morgan because he was sitting down with Trump and they called him a bigot and a racist and anti-science because he was going to sit with Trump. I'm like, well, where's the outrage that he sits down with Newsom? I hate that guy way more.

• 14:33Joe Rogan?

  Piers Morgan was saying this or the guests?

• 14:36Speaker 01

  Not Piers. Not Piers. Piers was awesome.

• 14:39Joe Rogan?

  The guest. Piers's show is Maury Povich 2.0. It's a better version of Maury Povich.

• 14:42Speaker 01

  I kind of love it, though. And I love when I get to do it because you're allowed to act unhinged. You still have to make your points.

• 14:48Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 14:49Speaker 01

  But it is a bit, it is theatrical. But sometimes I think when you are able to be so theatrical, it goes viral. And the point that you're trying to make is arguably seen by more, unless it's a platform, of course, like yours, but...

• 15:03Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, he does a good job of that. I just don't think it's a good way to discuss ideas.

• 15:07Speaker 01

  You're not wrong.

• 15:08Joe Rogan?

  But it's really good as far as like going viral. It's, it's great.

• 15:12Speaker 01

  You're not wrong about that. I still find it fun, though. Because you, that, what you hold in for all those civil conversations where you're just, you're biting your tongue, you're trying to communicate calmly and articulately. Here you can just unleash that they, "Your hypocrisy is disgusting."

• 15:35Speaker 01

  Everything I swallow in every conversation with all my friends from California. And you can just let it rip and friggin' tear into people because they started it.

• 15:46Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 15:46Speaker 01

  They started the fight.

• 15:48Joe Rogan?

  I don't like that. I don't like doing that, so I don't, I don't, I'm not interested in that.

• 15:53Speaker 01

  I get it.

• 15:53Joe Rogan?

  I'm not interested in that kind of conflict. I don't want, I don't want to talk to people like that. I don't like it.

• 15:58Speaker 01

  I understand. You're, you are like a very gentle soul. I, I watch you sometimes and you're just, you're so, not sometimes, I watch you often and you're a very gentle soul. And it's sometimes I think, "God, toxic masculinity." Like you're so, that whole notion, all of the men in your space tend to be far kinder and softer and it's the women that are savages. I mean, I happen to love, I, I love Megyn Kelly. I think she's brilliant, but goddamn, I never want to be on the wrong side of her.

• 16:29Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, she's ruthless.

• 16:30Speaker 01

  She'll rip your head off and like eat your heart. That, do not fuck with that woman.

• 16:36Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 16:36Speaker 01

  You know? So, anyway, I, I think that some of the women in the space are genuinely more aggressive than the men.

• 16:44Joe Rogan?

  Well, do you think that's because they have to to get respect? Like, why do you think that is?

• 16:48Speaker 01

  No, I, I don't think so. And I find that it's more respectable when you speak in the fashion that you do. And I've tried to really curtail that behavior throughout every other aspect of my life. Personally and professionally, whether I'm fighting with the contractor on my house, I try to lower the octaves of my voice, or I'm trying to win somebody over in a debate. But I think, you know, Joe, honestly, I think because it's entertaining.

• 17:17Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 17:17Speaker 01

  And it's a competitive space.

• 17:19Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 17:19Speaker 01

  I really think that's it, and it seems to work, so.

• 17:23Joe Rogan?

  Sort of, but why am I number one then? Because I don't do it. Because that, see, that's like the counter argument to that.

• 17:29Speaker 01

  Here would be my answer. Because you can lick everything in the fridge, and what I mean by that is, you don't have a niche.

• 17:37Joe Rogan?

  Lick everything in the fridge?

• 17:38Speaker 01

  Seriously, I'm not kidding.

• 17:39Joe Rogan?

  I've never heard that expression before.

• 17:41Speaker 01

  You can talk about anything and everything, and it's fascinating. And people tune in for it. They don't come here because they want to hear about politics, or they want to hear about health, or they want to hear about fucking aliens. They come here because they want to hear about all of it, and they want to hear what you think about all of it. So it's not really interesting when someone else does it, because they're not there to see what that individual thinks about the subject matter. So when I turn into Megyn Kelly, it's like, or tune in, it's because I want.

• 18:12Joe Rogan?

  Don't turn into her.

• 18:13Speaker 01

  No, I'm not, I'm not. Fuck no, dude, I'm not messing with her. She's a lovely person, and she's been nothing but lovely with me, but I.

• 18:21Joe Rogan?

  I'm sure.

• 18:22Speaker 01

  As mentioned, I am not interested in being on her bad side. However, when I tune in, it's not because I want to see her reaction or her opinion on something, it's because I want to learn, what is the counter argument to deporting this guy, Kilmar Obrego Garcia? I'm like, okay, steel man that argument for me, and then tune into something else, and try to disseminate what the truth is, and she's, I think, a constitutional attorney. So I feel like I'm getting great information. With you, you're not just learning about something, but you're also curious what you think about it. If you're gonna go, ah, bullshit, or if you're like, if you do the, wow. You know, you want to see what you think about it.

• 19:02Joe Rogan?

  Hmm. Yeah, I just think we could all do with a little less yelling at each other.

• 19:07Speaker 01

  You're totally right.

• 19:08Joe Rogan?

  I just don't think it's good for anybody. So every time I've engaged in it, I feel bad for the rest of the day.

• 19:14Speaker 01

  Really?

• 19:15Joe Rogan?

  Even if I win, yeah, I don't feel good. I just feel like, ugh, I don't like that. I don't like it.

• 19:20Speaker 01

  What if they deserved it?

• 19:23Joe Rogan?

  Um, I think you should be nice until it's time to not be nice. And generally, that's like extreme violence. That's my, that's my feeling. That's my feeling, you know, like.

• 19:34Speaker 01

  Extreme violence.

• 19:35Joe Rogan?

  Be nice up until you're literally trying to incapacitate a person.

• 19:38Speaker 01

  That's fair. I feel like.

• 19:41Joe Rogan?

  I don't think we have to do that. And I think the only time you have to do that is when someone's completely psychotic.

• 19:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:46Joe Rogan?

  Ninety-nine point nine-nine-nine percent of the time, you're better off serving you and that person better by just being nice.

• 19:54Speaker 01

  And calm and making a point in an intelligent fashion. You're absolutely right.

• 19:58Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, not being married to your ideas either. Also, you know, not like taking in opposition to your ideas as an opposition to you as a being. You know, it's, these are just ideas. Like if someone thinks that you're incorrect, if someone thinks I'm incorrect, I'm like, well, tell me why? What do you, what do you think? Why do you think that? Where, where'd you come to this conclusion? What, what was the tipping point for you? Like, what is it? Like, tell me what it is.

• 20:25Speaker 01

  That's rare, though. I, I was just actually talking to Mike Rowe about that. Why do we hold on so fastidiously to our dogma? And it honestly, because it doesn't feel all right to have somebody say, I told you so. I, I will do the mea culpa and I have a million times. But it is certainly more rare. I mean, how often do you see a walk back or a course correct? Not often. And I know that, you know, when people wag their finger at me, are you, you happy? This is what you voted for. You want to defend things that arguably you, you may agree with them on.

• 20:57Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 20:57Speaker 01

  And I'm like, don't, don't, don't do it. Just, do you, do you see their point? If so, acknowledge you see their point. And then I still feel the need to play the lesser evil game, even when they're right. They're still wrong because when I weigh out, you know, the choices I had, even though you're right on this issue. You know, I'm right about the, my choice ultimately because more things went that way. I wanted them to than the way I didn't. It takes a lot of ego strength to admit where you're wrong. And I, I just don't think a lot of people have that. And there is a tribalism with everything, whether it's workout trends, diets, for God's sake. I mean, we've seen this kind of dogma in health and wellness for years.

• 21:41Speaker 01

  It's no fun to say you were wrong and in some cases it can have professional repercussions for people.

• 21:46Joe Rogan?

  Sure. Did you experience any professional repercussions where you're pushing back against this healthy at any size stuff?

• 21:53Speaker 01

  How much time do you have on that one?

• 21:55Joe Rogan?

  Well, let's go into it because that to me was so fascinating that the concept of fat shaming, which like I don't think you should hurt anybody's feelings, but I think at a certain point in time, sometimes hurting someone's feelings causes actions and hurting someone's feelings with the truth. And you can give the truth to someone lovingly. You know, you could say, look, I care about you. This is why I want to tell you you're a fat fuck. Like you really are. You're disgusting and you need to lose weight and you've, you're fully addicted to food and you don't understand what it's doing to your body and you're being lied to by all these other people, like these fat doctors. Like there's some lady in the UK who calls herself the fat doctor. I'm like, lady, you're just overwhelmed with information. I could just see it looking at you.

• 22:40Joe Rogan?

  It's just crazy that you're giving this advice out when you're, you can't walk up a hill. There's no way. Like you're so unhealthy. And this idea that shaming people is worse than telling them the truth that's going to make them feel bad, maybe temporarily, but you could do it with kindness. And then that person can make choices that will be, and then you encourage them like, I'm so glad you changed your diet. I'm so glad you cut out this and cut out that and now you're doing well and you've decided to walk 10,000 steps a day and you've decided to start exercising a little bit, you know? This episode is brought to you by DoorDash. This Mother's Day, why give mom only flowers when you can give her flowers plus a real break?

• 23:21Joe Rogan?

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• 23:52Speaker 01

  You've given me a lot to tackle here, so let's, let's start with.

• 23:55Joe Rogan?

  Start with the professional stuff.

• 23:57Speaker 01

  The psy-op component of healthy at any size. This is a big food narrative. This has been proven. Even the, the friggin'.

• 24:05Joe Rogan?

  Explain big food narrative, what you mean by that?

• 24:07Speaker 01

  Okay, so big food, put, put simply, hired a bunch of registered dietitians to co-opt this concept of intuitive eating. And I'm, I'm, I'm dead ass serious.

• 24:21Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 24:21Speaker 01

  With hashtags like derail the shame and they paid them. And they put out all of these posts and went to all of these conventions and promoted the narrative. That you can be healthy at any size and it's just a flat out lie. It is a flat-earther conversation. It is pseudoscience. At its best, there's, there's no truth behind that. There is a robust amount of data that show us. Being obese is associated with like 170 comorbidities. This is a non-factor. It's, it's been debunked. We know this for a fact. So. When that happens, what they're doing is essentially placating someone.

• 25:07Speaker 01

  Who already feels, now I can, I can attack what's going on or address rather, what's going on with an individual who is that size. And it is largely psychological. Once you are past the point of dad bod, you know what I mean? Like, oh, I, I work three jobs. Life beat me down. It's a food desert and I'm 40 pounds overweight and I've let myself go. This is a different animal. When you're dealing with somebody who is 50 plus pounds overweight. There is a psychological component. So the first thing we need to do is make them aware that there is a problem without question. But you can do it without shame, giving them facts of, listen, this is unhealthy.

• 25:47Speaker 01

  And because you are such a valuable individual, I want you to understand this because only from a place. Of feeling truly worthy are you able to facilitate a change. You don't work out because you hate your body. You work out because you love it. So it doesn't need to be a shaming. There's no shame there, to be honest, Joe. I know, I know that people claim there is. Because you pointed out this vulnerability or this flaw in the person. But we all have flaws and vulnerabilities. People who are overweight simply wear them. So it's easier to judge, right?

• 26:23Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 26:24Speaker 01

  So by educating them first. And then, without question, I like to give people, or when I, when I was able to do the work hands-on, that rock bottom moment. Because they are overweight because it is providing them with something extraordinarily significant. And I can give you examples, should you need them. But I promise you that at one time or another, people turn to addictions, in this case, food, because it means their psychological survival. So put simply, the most obvious example would be a person who was incested, molested, raped, puts on weight to de-sexualize. That's just one example of many, but it's easy to illustrate the point.

• 27:05Speaker 01

  So whatever this thing is providing them, is the part that's so hard to let go of.

• 27:10Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 27:10Speaker 01

  Because unconsciously, it's terrifying. And you gotta first show them, this is why we need to change. And then, you gotta give them that path towards change, and you gotta make it harder. You gotta make them feel the pain. Could be physically, it could be psychologically, but it doesn't have to be shameful, of the way they've been living, so that the work and the sacrifice associated with change is less painful than continuing the negative and destructive habits. You don't have to shame them. I, I know what the message seems like it is, but it really, it really isn't.

• 27:46Joe Rogan?

  Well, the whole term "fat shaming" is pretty recent, right?

• 27:49Speaker 01

  Yes, very. Let's get right back to where, when I was, you asked me what I lost.

• 27:54Joe Rogan?

  Intuitive eating is a fascinating phrase. And the, the idea that this is by the same people that used to be in charge of tobacco.

• 28:03Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 28:04Joe Rogan?

  This, this is what's really crazy. These are the RJ Reynolds and these tobacco companies bought all these fast food, processed food companies, and they use the same tactics that they used with that to push terrible foods on people.

• 28:17Speaker 01

  Well, they literally have

• 28:19Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 28:19Speaker 01

  A team of multidisciplinary scientists that work around the clock to figure out how to get people to not eat just one. And then they put it in a commercial, like, literally in broad daylight.

• 28:31Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 28:32Speaker 01

  What are we doing to people?

• 28:33Joe Rogan?

  Bet you can't eat just one.

• 28:34Speaker 01

  Yes, one.

• 28:34Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 28:35Speaker 01

  You know, but the, what they're doing is they are exploiting somebody's psychology and they're hijacking their biology with this food, without question. And this is why you have seen rates of obesity skyrocket from, what, 70s, when it was like 5% of the adult population was overweight or obese, to 74%?

• 28:58Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 28:58Speaker 01

  We're all, is it a quantum leap in genetics? That's, that's a, a big pharma psy-op of like, no, no, no. This is all genetic. You're, you're genetic, genetically obese. Well, where was the, what happened? This is, I've never seen such a quantum leap in genetics. How come we were genetically obese in the 70s? Like, what was that tipping point, if you will? They created the cascade of obesity over the last five decades. Of course, it's exactly what you're talking about.

• 29:25Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's ingredients in food. It's really simple.

• 29:27Speaker 01

  At that, and also how they engineer the environment, and you're surrounded by it. You can't escape it. Remember the days when you weren't allowed to have food at a bookstore? And now every friggin bookstore has a cafe.

• 29:41Joe Rogan?

  Starbucks.

• 29:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, with a 600 calorie drink.

• 29:43Joe Rogan?

  Cookies in it.

• 29:44Speaker 01

  You are surrounded. There is nowhere you can go right now where food is not omnipresent, in particular, this crappy food. And they generally do it through government contracts and subsidies. So it's at your schools, your hospitals, like, anywhere you go, you will find this garbage food. So even if you have that moment of willpower, which is arguably this fleeting moment of bravado.

• 30:08Speaker 01

  If you're constantly surrounded by it, you will give in. Managing your environment is a large part of helping someone be successful. It's a Band-Aid, right? If you're dealing with sexual abuse, for example. But controlling the environment is definitely a component in helping them. You can't control the environment.

• 30:25Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 30:26Speaker 01

  Can't control the narrative. You can't control what's in the food. And it's all by design. It's not just the crap in the food. It's how they control the narrative around it and how they engineer the environment and how they systematically shut down the people that pointed out. As fat shamers, for example, or racists.

• 30:44Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 30:44Speaker 01

  It's another big one.

• 30:45Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's a big one. Or transphobes, or fill in the blank. But it's fascinating to me that hospitals fall into this. A friend of mine was visiting his friend who has prostate cancer. And this guy is in the hospital being treated for cancer. And then he went to look at what they're feeding him in the hospital. And they're feeding him applesauce, which is just loaded with high fructose corn syrup, apple juice, or orange juice, which is not even juice. It's concentrate. It's all bullshit.

• 31:12Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 31:12Joe Rogan?

  And then some kind of a fucking sandwich, which is made out of this processed wheat bread.

• 31:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:18Joe Rogan?

  It's

• 31:18Speaker 01

  It probably has, in that meal alone, 100-plus chemicals. I think I'm being conservative.

• 31:24Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. At a hospital.

• 31:25Speaker 01

  It has to do with government contracts.

• 31:27Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but it's so crazy that hospitals, their diets in hospitals are co-opted.

• 31:32Speaker 01

  I can't even, my kids, who I know will be watching this, so I love you guys. It's okay. But they stopped packing their lunches. And I was like, guys, why are we not packing our lunches anymore? And I would watch all the crap that I would buy go bad in the pantry. And my son ratted my daughter out. And he's like, she's eating breakfast at school. And I was like, what are you talking about? He's like, the sugar cereal, who's having that at school? And I was like, what? What are you talking about? Even my kids, who know better, it's

• 32:05Joe Rogan?

  But isn't that a rebellion against mom, though? Which kids definitely do. Like, my youngest daughter, she jokes roundabout, she's like, ooh, seed oils. I love seed oils. She'll have salad dressing with seed oil, and she like mocks me. I'm like, okay, you eat whatever you want, but just know what it is.

• 32:21Speaker 01

  They, I honestly think the kids know what it is. And I try to give them enough freedom now at these ages, you know, 13 to 15, to make some of their own decisions. So not everything is a pushback. But I truly think there is an addictive component.

• 32:38Joe Rogan?

  Oh, for sure.

• 32:39Speaker 01

  And she just, it's like, I'm so good at home. And I don't mean to associate, not good, but I eat well at home. Let's put it that way. And, you know, just at school. I'm just gonna do this at school. And the problem, obviously, is when she goes off to college, I won't be able to control the environment at home. And I'm like, honey, okay, hold on. There's a, forgive me, there's a like 20-year-old influencer named Bad Baby, I think. Joe, she saw this, okay, she saw this girl on-

• 33:09Joe Rogan?

  That's the lady from Dr. Phil.

• 33:10Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 33:10Joe Rogan?

  Catch Me Outside.

• 33:11Speaker 01

  Catch Me Outside. So she saw this girl, I think she was like nine, and has followed Bad Baby. Bad Baby now has cancer.

• 33:19Joe Rogan?

  What?

• 33:19Speaker 01

  I believe so. And-

• 33:21Joe Rogan?

  For real?

• 33:22Speaker 01

  According to my daughter. Exactly the point, though. That's exactly the point. And so now, I can say to my kids, this isn't just mom's generation, which, how come, there's something else to look at. My mom is 76. None of the public figures in her generation got cancer. You didn't see Susan Sarandon, or Scorni Weaver, or Meryl Streep. None of them got cancer. But in my generation, it's like Maria Menounos, Christina Ablegate, Something's Going On With Angelina Jolie, Kate Middleton. In my generation, the canary is dead in the coal mine. It's not even a question of the negative impact. If we're not looking at statistics, if we're just looking from an observational perspective, it's in the news every single day, someone's dealing with cancer.

• 34:07Speaker 01

  Olivia Munn. Now, you're seeing 20-year-olds deal with this. And I was able to point to that to my daughter and say, this is the shit that I am talking about. She's five years older than you.

• 34:18Joe Rogan?

  What does that lady have? Does it say?

• 34:21Speaker 03

  Yeah, she's claimed that she's got a form of leukemia, I believe, but people, yeah.

• 34:27Speaker 01

  They debate, they doubt her?

• 34:29Speaker 03

  Yeah, for sure they doubt her.

• 34:30Joe Rogan?

  Well, she's a little bit kooky, right?

• 34:32Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 34:33Speaker 01

  They're still, you still can point to the fact, even if it's not Bad Baby, who, who may be lying, I'm, I'm not sure.

• 34:39Joe Rogan?

  I like how you're using that name, Bad Baby.

• 34:40Speaker 01

  Is it Bad Baby? Bad, what the, I said Bad Bunny the other day and my kids are like, no, that's the rapper.

• 34:46Joe Rogan?

  She says, uh, she insisted she'd been cleared for surgery. She has no regrets about her cosmetic tweaks. What does a cosmetic tweak have to do with leukemia?

• 34:53Speaker 01

  I don't know.

• 34:54Speaker 03

  I think people are just...

• 34:54Joe Rogan?

  They're not gonna perform plastic surgery on a cancer patient. What? She's getting plastic surgery? Is it, what is this article about?

• 35:01Speaker 01

  Oh, no, but look at the chronic myeloid leukemia piece, because that's the part I know about.

• 35:06Joe Rogan?

  She, oh, breaks silence on claims she lied about having cancer after being slammed for vaping.

• 35:11Speaker 01

  Oh, God, did she lie about it?

• 35:13Speaker 03

  That's, I was just showing you that's what...

• 35:14Joe Rogan?

  Go back up.

• 35:15Speaker 01

  Because I thought she had like a wig. My daughter said she lost her hair.

• 35:18Joe Rogan?

  Twenty-one, it says currently battling chronic, how do you say that? Myeloid, myeloid leukemia?

• 35:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:25Joe Rogan?

  Criticized for getting cosmetic surgery while battling disease, which is pretty crazy. Is that really true?

• 35:31Speaker 03

  That's the part that...

• 35:32Joe Rogan?

  She underwent plastic surgery and challenged rival Alabama Barker to a physical fight.

• 35:37Speaker 03

  See, that's right.

• 35:38Joe Rogan?

  All while battling leukemia.

• 35:40Speaker 01

  Apparently Alabama Barker did not show up for that fight because my daughter was very disappointed by that.

• 35:44Joe Rogan?

  What, they were gonna meet somewhere in actual fight?

• 35:46Speaker 01

  There was some meat, I think in Calabasas and Throwdown.

• 35:48Joe Rogan?

  Oh, boy, the Calabasas Throwdown, the classic.

• 35:52Speaker 01

  That's right, of course.

• 35:52Joe Rogan?

  It used to be an old west shootout, now it's, now it's a Calabasas Throwdown between influencers. Oh, boy.

• 35:59Speaker 01

  I can tell you with certainty is that the rate of early onset cancer diagnosis in people eighteen to forty-nine has gone up seventy-nine percent over the past two decades. So if in fact Bad Baby is being untruthful and deceitful, um, those statistics are real.

• 36:17Joe Rogan?

  Yes, those statistics are real, and including the big leap since the COVID vaccine was rolled out.

• 36:23Speaker 01

  You know, I don't have any information on that.

• 36:26Joe Rogan?

  There was a doctor that was on the Tucker Carlson Show the other day that's saying he's seeing pancreatic cancer in kids for the first time ever in his career. He said, "My entire career, I never saw pancreatic cancer in children."

• 36:38Speaker 01

  Okay, I want to play devil's advocate to that argument and simply say, the statistic that I just cited, I believe, came out in 2019. So this is pre-COVID.

• 36:48Joe Rogan?

  Oh, I'm not doubting that diet and environmental factors. I think there's a host of different things going on.

• 36:53Speaker 01

  I agree.

• 36:53Joe Rogan?

  For sure, there's pesticides and herbicides. That's a major factor. You know, when you look at the fact that 90-plus percent of people have Roundup in their blood, that's crazy.

• 37:04Speaker 01

  You know that stuff is linked to chemical warfare from Vietnam. It has a historical connection to Agent Orange.

• 37:11Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 37:11Speaker 01

  Yeah. Google it. Jamie, check that. But yeah, because I wrote about it in a book.

• 37:14Joe Rogan?

  Oh.

• 37:15Speaker 01

  I know. That should alarm you.

• 37:17Joe Rogan?

  Glyphosate is everywhere. It's so spooky. This episode is brought to you by Simply Safe. We've talked about digital threats and protecting your personal information on the show before, but it's just as important that you take care of yourself and your loved ones in the real world, too. And that's where Simply Safe comes in for your home security system. They use a mix of AI technology and real, live, breathing people to keep you safe. Like, if some weirdo is loitering around your property, AI-powered cameras can help detect it, and agents can act quickly to deter them or contact the police. But Simply Safe is there for more than just the bad stuff. Their cameras also capture the moments you might want to save, like the first time your daughter rides her bike down the driveway, or your kid is opening their acceptance letter

• 38:00Joe Rogan?

  from college on the front porch. Keep your family safe so you can experience moments like that more often. Try out Simply Safe. They've got a 60-day satisfaction guarantee or your money back. Plus, you can get 50% off your new Simply Safe system with professional monitoring and your first month free. Just go to simplisafe.com/rogan. That's simplisafe.com/rogan for 50% off and your first month free. There's no safe like Simply Safe. And other countries won't even allow its use.

• 38:30Speaker 01

  Nope.

• 38:30Joe Rogan?

  And we spray it on everything. Not only that, we have like Corns genetically engineered to be immune to glyphosate, so they could just spray the shit out of it. And then you eat that corn and you're getting glyphosate residue. You're just getting it and it's in your blood.

• 38:43Speaker 01

  It's in, it's in everything.

• 38:44Joe Rogan?

  It's in everything. It's in rice.

• 38:46Speaker 01

  Runs off into the water.

• 38:46Joe Rogan?

  It's in wheat. Yeah.

• 38:48Speaker 01

  It's in, well, especially.

• 38:49Joe Rogan?

  It's in the runoff, so it gets in the fish. You know, most freshwater fish have toxic levels of lead and, or heavy metals in them. Like, most, most freshwater fish, you really probably shouldn't be eating.

• 39:02Speaker 01

  I knew big predatory fish.

• 39:04Joe Rogan?

  Yes, that's in the ocean, but that's heavy metals from the ocean, which is also from us. But tha- that's mercury. But there's toxic levels of heavy metals and pollutants and, you know, forever chemicals that are in freshwater fish. Cause all that shit that's in the ground gets into lakes.

• 39:23Speaker 01

  Right.

• 39:24Joe Rogan?

  All that shit that, you know, all the runoff, all that stuff gets into streams, gets into creeks, gets into rivers. You know, uh, we watched a video, uh, when we had, um, uh, Will Harris from White Oak Pastures on the podcast, and he showed the difference between his regenerative farm that doesn't use any pesticides or herbicides and his neighbor's farm. And there's a, literally a dividing line in the river where you can see the runoff from his neighbor's farm turns the entire river brown. And it's legal. It's legal to pollute.

• 39:56Speaker 01

  Of course.

• 39:57Joe Rogan?

  Because it's industrial farming.

• 39:58Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 40:00Joe Rogan?

  But it's crazy. It's just like all that industrial fertilizer, herbicides and pesticides are running off because the topsoil's dead. So all that stuff is running off as soon as it rains and it runs right into the river and you could see a dividing line. There's like clear water on one side and this disgusting brown, dirty water on the right side.

• 40:22Speaker 01

  Have you seen where it runs from the river into the ocean?

• 40:25Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 40:25Speaker 01

  And creates dead zones that you can see from space?

• 40:28Joe Rogan?

  No oxygen.

• 40:28Speaker 01

  Nope.

• 40:29Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 40:29Speaker 01

  Yeah. Nothing but jellyfish for miles?

• 40:31Joe Rogan?

  Well, I have a friend of mine who is yoga instructor and he's from Argentina. And he came to America and no one told him, he was in LA. No one told him, "Don't surf after it rains." So he was surfing and he didn't understand that all the runoff from all the streets goes into the ocean. He got horribly sick.

• 40:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:53Joe Rogan?

  And, you know, he was bedridden. And he was like, "What the fuck is going on with the ocean?"

• 40:57Speaker 01

  Having grown up in California and spending a lot of time in the water, I have known this for years and now I can't even imagine, by the way, in California, who would dare to get in the ocean at this point.

• 41:10Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 41:10Speaker 01

  Considering all of the crap from the fires. That's a great irony.

• 41:16Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 41:17Speaker 01

  That's my favorite. "Oh, we're not doing any forestry mitigation because of the environment." And yet, these fires have rolled back all of those protections by something like 20 years.

• 41:27Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 41:28Speaker 01

  Is it just...

• 41:29Joe Rogan?

  Well, that ground's ruined forever.

• 41:30Speaker 01

  Destroyed and pours into the ocean.

• 41:32Joe Rogan?

  Twice the size of Manhattan, ruined ground. All those people that had electric cars, those cars, those batteries, all that shit.

• 41:41Speaker 01

  Nope.

• 41:41Joe Rogan?

  All the plastics and the fiberglass and carbon fiber, all that stuff, the tires, all that stuff is now in the soil. And you're gonna, if you, good luck having a garden. Good luck. You wanna try to grow plants? Good luck.

• 41:54Speaker 01

  I was talking to, um, I don't know if you've ever seen this gentleman, he's really great. He wrote a book called Eat to Beat Disease, named Dr. William Lee, and he called me after the fire because I was out there visiting my mom. He's like, "Where are you? Are you in California?" And I was like, "I am at the moment. In fact, I'm right here by Palisades." And he said, "Jill, do you remember 9/11 Dust? That whole thing with all that?" I was like, "Of course I remember." Send me a bunch of articles. And he's like, "You gotta get out of there. Get your mom out of there." He's like, "It gets in your kids' clothes when they're on their way to school."

• 42:28Joe Rogan?

  Ugh.

• 42:28Speaker 01

  People, he goes, "We're gonna be talking about this 10 years from now, the result of the toxins in this fire and how they've affected people's health."

• 42:36Joe Rogan?

  No doubt. No doubt.

• 42:38Speaker 01

  It's crazy. And it happens twice a year.

• 42:40Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 42:40Speaker 01

  At least.

• 42:41Joe Rogan?

  Oh, I was evacuated three times when I lived in LA.

• 42:44Speaker 01

  I, well, in fact, I lost two homes. One that I owned in 2018 and one that I sold in 21 just actually burnt.

• 42:53Joe Rogan?

  Ugh.

• 42:53Speaker 01

  It's nuts.

• 42:54Joe Rogan?

  It's crazy.

• 42:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:55Joe Rogan?

  And nothing's, I mean, the, what they did during the fire was just so insane. Like, the, the fact that the reservoir was empty, oh, we need to make a lid for it. We didn't get around to it.

• 43:07Speaker 01

  For over a year and it hadn't even begun.

• 43:09Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 43:10Speaker 01

  There were so many things wrong there that I, I could literally-

• 43:12Joe Rogan?

  What's the lack of funding, Gillian? They don't have enough money.

• 43:14Speaker 01

  Oh, I can't.

• 43:16Joe Rogan?

  They don't have enough money.

• 43:16Speaker 01

  Have you seen Mike Schellenberger talk about this?

• 43:18Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 43:18Speaker 01

  That will make your blood boil.

• 43:20Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Schellenberger's great.

• 43:22Speaker 01

  I love him. He's like, we knew about this for seven days with the winds and we could have, you know, we could have borrowed firefighters from all different states and this and that and had them preposition-

• 43:33Joe Rogan?

  Karen Bass went to Ghana for a birthday party.

• 43:34Speaker 01

  Oh, my God, knowing, knowing, between Mike Schellenberger and Corolla, whipping me into a frenzy about this, I, I literally think I've, like, popped 10 blood vessels because so much of this could have been mitigated and wasn't. And in fact, Gavin Newsom, my favorite politician.

• 43:54Joe Rogan?

  He's my favorite podcaster. I wish we'd get back to it.

• 43:56Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 43:56Joe Rogan?

  He stopped. I don't know why he stopped.

• 43:58Speaker 01

  Oh, did he stop? I didn't know that.

• 43:59Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, fucking show was horrible.

• 44:01Speaker 01

  Oh, God, I'm just-

• 44:02Joe Rogan?

  Everybody was mocking him. It was so bad for him. He kept, he had this idea of reaching across the aisle. So he reached across the aisle and he gets guys like Charlie Kirk and Steve Bannon on, and they eat his lunch. And so, and people are thinking his party, like, what the fuck are you doing? You're making this look horrible. So he bails on his podcast. When was his last episode?

• 44:20Speaker 01

  I didn't realize he bailed.

• 44:22Joe Rogan?

  Oh, he's back.

• 44:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, we weren't gonna get that lucky. I don't think so.

• 44:26Joe Rogan?

  Oh, Rahm Emanuel. Okay, that's, well, now he's with his own side. And Scott Galloway, mm, pretty much his own side.

• 44:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:33Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 44:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:34Joe Rogan?

  Anthony Scarmucci, he hates Trump. That's a good move.

• 44:37Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 44:37Joe Rogan?

  Ezra Klein, okay, that makes sense. So it's not that it's gone away, it's just that it's so horrible, nobody's watching it? And no one is even talking about it anymore?

• 44:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, that might be it.

• 44:47Joe Rogan?

  This is Gavin Newsom.

• 44:49Speaker 01

  Oh my god!

• 44:51Joe Rogan?

  But it was so funny because that was the response after the election. They said, "Well, podcasts influenced the election, so we'll start our own podcast." Your podcast is gonna make people even more inclined to not vote for you.

• 45:05Speaker 01

  My favorite was, "We need our own version of Joe Rogan." And I'd love when you, "I, I remember when you, you loved Bernie." You were like, "I like the guy." You had Joe Rogan. Joe was on your side. And that's the one thing with the left, is they purge people from the party.

• 45:24Joe Rogan?

  Because it's a cult. It really is. Like, leftism, not being an actual progressive. Like, an actual progressive is a person who's kind, who wants people to just exist and be yourself and live amongst us, and we should all have social safety net and laws that like, are kind and compassionate. We should look at the fact that we are an incredible first world nation, and we should like, roll out the red carpet to all the, all the people that live here, and try to make it a better place for everybody. That's real progressivism. And then it morphed into this like, "Let perverts get into the women's room, let men compete in women's sports." Like, all, like, and ignore the fact that some people are fucking psychotic, and give

• 46:08Joe Rogan?

  them a blank check, as long as they just say they're a woman. Like, "Oh, you're a woman, go ahead, carte blanche, get in." And not only that, but treat them better than you treat women themselves, because they're, they're actually more oppressed than women.

• 46:19Speaker 01

  Isn't that wild?

• 46:20Joe Rogan?

  So it's the oppression hierarchy.

• 46:22Speaker 01

  Right.

• 46:22Joe Rogan?

  So they get the gold medal in the oppression Olympics. It's like, it's bananas.

• 46:26Speaker 01

  It is bananas. It really is. I can't, that's the stuff where... You look and you say, I was never for any of this.

• 46:34Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 46:35Speaker 01

  If you, I'm a libertarian, I'm for personal freedoms, of course. If you want to change your gender as an adult, that's absolutely up to you and I would fight for your right to do that and live with dignity. But when your personal choices impact the rights and the freedoms of others, this is a far more nuanced conversation.

• 46:54Joe Rogan?

  Far more.

• 46:55Speaker 01

  And it's like, whoa.

• 46:57Joe Rogan?

  Especially when you're dealing with kids.

• 47:00Speaker 01

  Oh, that's a whole different.

• 47:01Joe Rogan?

  This is where it gets really crazy.

• 47:02Speaker 01

  That's evil.

• 47:03Joe Rogan?

  There's this hilarious conversation between this woman who is like, she looks like she's probably in her seventies. And this person's asking her, if you had a granddaughter, would you support them taking puberty blockers? She's like, absolutely, absolutely. I think it's insane to try to force a girl to go through puberty if she's really a boy and this and that. Would you, would you allow them to get a tattoo? Oh, I think that's permanent.

• 47:35Joe Rogan?

  No irony, seconds later, no recognition of what she's saying. Like tattoos can be removed, lady.

• 47:42Speaker 01

  I know.

• 47:43Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. They can laser those off.

• 47:45Speaker 01

  Have you noticed, though? They really don't understand it.

• 47:49Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 47:49Speaker 01

  And I got in a conversation with Jessica Tarlov about this and she's like, oh, but, you know, they, the kids go through extensive therapy. I'm like, that's not true, Jessica. Or the concept that it's reversible. People believe.

• 48:01Joe Rogan?

  That's not true.

• 48:01Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 48:02Joe Rogan?

  Not only is it not true, but puberty blockers are the exact same thing they give to sex criminals. When, when you have a sexual molester that is forced to be on sterilization drugs, that's exactly what they give to young boys.

• 48:15Speaker 01

  It sterilizes kids.

• 48:16Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's the same thing.

• 48:17Speaker 01

  Takes away sexual function. They can, if you interrupt puberty in the stage ten or two. And the reason, the reason I bring this up is because they'll tell you it's reversible.

• 48:27Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 48:27Speaker 01

  And, but here's the thing, someone, I actually went through this exercise with somebody and I was like, show that to me. And they went on ChatGPT and it's like, yes, this is reversible. And the argument is that should you have a child that starts puberty at seven? Use puberty blockers, it's very rare, it can happen. And they do it strategically to slow that down for a child and help them develop at a normal pace. They, it doesn't sterilize them or make them incapable of having an orgasm. So, the distinction that's key is when you block puberty at the stage of 10 or 2, which is arguably the appropriate age that puberty is meant to begin, then you've got sterilization, you've got an inability to ever have an orgasm. It affects bone development, it affects brain development.

• 49:12Joe Rogan?

  Gives them strokes.

• 49:13Speaker 01

  It's terrible for them.

• 49:15Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 49:16Speaker 01

  They're frigging children, their body is not developed properly. Nobody understands that. They don't, when they make that argument, they're told the parting line of, if you make them go through this, they'll kill themselves. And it turns out that the data doesn't bear out to prove that either, but they have.

• 49:35Joe Rogan?

  Not only that, it goes the other way. The data goes the other way.

• 49:38Speaker 01

  It goes the other way.

• 49:39Joe Rogan?

  They're 25% more likely to commit suicide, suicidal ideation, depression, anxiety. All those things ramp up, once they've transitioned. Cause they realize like, they're, they've made a horrible mistake and they've been influenced by these crazy people that want to use them as like virtue flags. They want to use children as virtue flags. It's fucking insane. They also shouldn't be allowed to call them a different thing than when they call them, they call them chemical castration drugs for sex offenders, but yet they call them puberty blockers.

• 50:11Speaker 01

  And gender-affirming care.

• 50:12Joe Rogan?

  Gender-affirming care.

• 50:13Speaker 01

  Isn't that lovely?

• 50:14Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's, it's fucking barbaric and bananas. And we're gonna look back at it the same way we looked at lobotomies. You know, we performed lobotomies for, I think roughly around 50 or 60 years for, I think they stopped it in 1967. I think that's when they stopped the last lobotomies. And- Then they realize like, oh my god, this is a terrible thing to do. But they did it for so fucking long. And this is the same thing that's gonna happen with this, this whole gender-affirming care thing for minors. It's crazy. Kids don't know what's going on. You have children, you know what it's like.

• 50:48Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 50:48Joe Rogan?

  They go through phases and cycles. They become tomboys and boys play with dolls. Like, who cares? A lot, by the way, a lot of those boys that want to transition, it turns out they're just gay. And if you just leave them and let them be gay, and a lot of my gay friends fucking hate it. Because they're like, you're trying to erase gay people. You're trying to say that all these gay people are really in the wrong gender.

• 51:11Speaker 01

  Gosh, I've never thought of it from that angle. I have seen the financial component, though.

• 51:17Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that's a big problem.

• 51:18Speaker 01

  It's a multi-billion dollar business.

• 51:19Joe Rogan?

  That's where it's evil.

• 51:20Speaker 01

  And when you look at who's funding this stuff, I remember, my god, I used to go to the friggin' human rights campaign dinners. And donate, you know, when you're fighting for gay marriage, good liberal. And now, when you go to their page, if, uh, they've got a score, and forgive me, I can't remember the friggin' name of it. But there's a score where they rate different medical institutions on how they provide gender-affirming care. And if they get a bad score, it impacts, I think, how many, how much grant money they can get. There's a page for this. I believe it's through the HRC on their website. And when you look at who funds it, Pfizer.

• 52:01Speaker 01

  Oh, that's not at all surprising. One drug, I think Lupron is almost a billion dollar a year business. Awfully, but I, I, forgive me, it's been a minute since I've looked into this, but I'm, I'm in the zone for sure. Yeah, terrifying stuff.

• 52:16Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's just, the money thing is so scary, because when money gets attached to anything, all ethics and morals go out the window. And they just try to make as much money from these things as is human, humanly possible. And they've always done that.

• 52:29Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 52:30Joe Rogan?

  They've always done that across the board with virtually everything, and we're surprised when it happens with children.

• 52:37Joe Rogan?

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• 53:43Joe Rogan?

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• 54:48Speaker 01

  I don't know, you and I are surprised, but I think most people are not awake at all about it.

• 54:53Joe Rogan?

  No, no, most people aren't awake at all, and if it doesn't affect them personally, they feel like it's important to espouse these beliefs because these beliefs show that you're a good progressive.

• 55:03Speaker 01

  Yes, a hundred percent.

• 55:05Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's like people's minds have been co-opted by, you know, I don't necessarily believe in demons and angels. I don't believe that, but if you were the devil, like, wouldn't money be your most valuable tool to get people to do absolutely atrocious evil things that are gonna ruin their lives? Money is like the devil's playground. It's like where the devil can convince good people to do things. And then you use words like gender-affirming care and, you know, you can, you can kinda like change the narrative. But the end result is really just you're profiting off of people's confusion. And you're doing so in a way where you're sacrificing, it's literal child sacrifice.

• 55:50Joe Rogan?

  Those children that wind up committing suicide because they went through this gender-affirming care and are horribly depressed and they don't have breasts anymore and they're so confused and they can't have children. And they just wind up killing themselves and this is sacrifice. This is like a form of child sacrifice for financial gain. I mean, you're not sacrificing them to the gods or to demons, you're doing it to money. And it's really wild that we can't see that. We can't like look at all the data and see and understand like the, the complex interaction of human beings and people that are around them that influence them. And, you know, that they get encouragement and then they get positive feedback. And then they show up at school wearing lipstick and everyone's like, "You're amazing.

• 56:34Joe Rogan?

  You're amazing now, Bobby, now that you're Roberta, like now you're amazing. You used to be some guy that got stuffed into a locker and now your girl is incredible." And you're, you're giving them this positive feedback, you don't... And it's money and it's the people are profiting off of it. It's fucking insane and it's so wild to watch it all play out and realize like we are so vulnerable to influence. Human beings are so, I mean, this is why cults exist. This is why people are willing to be religious martyrs and blow themselves up and which, by the way, like, why do they do that? Why do they get kids to wear suicide vests? Because you can't convince a 55 year old guy to do it.

• 57:17Joe Rogan?

  55 guy with a job and a family and a lot of, you know, interests and good friends. Tough to get him to wear that suicide vest. You know, he's like, what? What am I doing? I'm going to a mall? What the fuck am I? No, why am I doing that? I'm going to heaven and I'm going to get 72 virgins. Can you, can you show me these virgins? Like, is there a fucking, what, what happened to them? How do these poor virgins wind up in heaven just getting raped by this 55 year old guy who blew himself up? Like, this is fucking insane.

• 57:45Speaker 01

  I know.

• 57:46Joe Rogan?

  Well, you can't get adults to believe that, but you can get children to believe that. So we don't want to like, take that same ability to influence and then just transfer it over to children and, and.

• 57:59Speaker 01

  I'm not quite sure why the human mind is so fragile. I've, I've asked myself that so many times. And, and this is, this is going to sound totally off piece here, but you, you brought up demons and what have you and I just watched that. I didn't read the book, so forgive me, but I watched the documentary on the book Chaos on Netflix.

• 58:18Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah, I read the book.

• 58:19Speaker 01

  Okay. Are you not completely, I, I cannot wrap my head around how Manson got seemingly normal people to commit this kind of murder. And when you listen to these women talk about it, they're like, and then I stabbed her 15 times and I felt the knife go into her hip bone and she looked at me and said, I'm dead. And that, like, no emotion. What did you do to this woman's mind? And you can't say she's an outlier.

• 58:54Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 58:55Speaker 01

  Because he was able to convince the group of people. I, I cannot understand this kind of.

• 59:02Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's

• 59:02Speaker 01

  Fragility, but what is that?

• 59:04Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's MKUltra.

• 59:05Speaker 01

  But it's, is it not, is it that?

• 59:07Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 59:07Speaker 01

  Do you think it's that?

• 59:08Joe Rogan?

  No, 100%. That's Jolly West. Jolly West was the CIA operative who visited Manson in jail. He's also the guy that visited Jack Ruby after he shot Kennedy. And then Jack Ruby starts saying, "I'm seeing demons and the Jews are on fire." And, you know, Jack Ruby didn't have a history of mental illness like that, like, like, complete psychotic breakdowns. But he did after Jolly West visited him in jail.

• 59:32Speaker 01

  Did not notice.

• 59:33Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, there was like, there's like, real documentation about those experiments. One of them is Operation Midnight Climax. So, the CIA was operating brothels, and they were operating brothels where they would have two-way mirrors. And they would be behind the mirrors, and these prostitutes who were working for the CIA would give the Johns LSD. And then they would observe them. This is all documented.

• 59:57Speaker 01

  I do know, I, I, I knew a little bit about MKUltra, obviously, in that they were using psychedelics to influence people and try to gain mind control.

• 1:00:04Joe Rogan?

  LSD in particular, yeah.

• 1:00:06Speaker 01

  Okay, so here's my question, though. This is what I find so fascinating. Do you think that the LSD simply accelerated that mental vulnerability or the ability to warp someone's mind? Because when you tell people now, "You're going to perform a sex change on a child," they think that's a good idea. And I'll, I'll tie it back to one thing that also is seemingly unrelated, but everyone's outraged about RFK. He's not a doctor. Oh, my God, he's, he's trying to get to the root of autism, and he's misguided about it. Where was your outrage when Xavier Becerra, who's not a doctor, wanted to remove all age limits for sex changes on kids?

• 1:00:49Speaker 01

  Whether surgery or not, the medicalization component that we talked about. Like, that, to me, is all group psychosis. I wonder, like, to get an adult to, I'm like, where's your outrage and your concern about this? Because this is batshit crazy.

• 1:01:02Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:01:02Speaker 01

  And nobody said a word, nobody cared, it went completely under the radar. And I'm just wondering if the ability to capture someone's mind in the way that they did, through these CIA studies, did LSD simply accelerate a vulnerability that's already pre-existing and you're watching the brainwashing of people go on over the course of decades? Because if you said this to a person, arguably in Obama's first term, when he ran on gay marriage, that you were going to run sex changes on children in the year 2024, people would have lost their friggin' mind.

• 1:01:37Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:01:38Speaker 01

  So it's just a complete, it is, it's, they must have been brainwashed, though.

• 1:01:43Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it is brainwashing. And cults, we all know that cults are real, right?

• 1:01:47Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:01:48Joe Rogan?

  We all know about the Manson family, we all know about Jim Jones, we all know about cults. And we know that human beings are very vulnerable to group influence. Now, when you have someone that's actually being trained by people that are psychologists and that understand influence, and then also trained in using the implantation of LSD on these people, one of the things that Manson would do is he would pretend to take LSD, and then he would give it to them, and then influence them, while they were under the influence and he was sober. And this is-

• 1:02:20Speaker 01

  He knew he was sober.

• 1:02:21Joe Rogan?

  This was all learned through the Harvard LSD studies, which, by the way, created the Unabomber. Ted Kaczynski was a part of the Harvard LSD studies.

• 1:02:29Speaker 01

  Oh my god, how do I not know this?

• 1:02:31Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, well, most people-

• 1:02:32Speaker 01

  I know he was a genius, you know, which-

• 1:02:34Joe Rogan?

  Well, he had, there was a bunch of things wrong with him. First of all, when he was a baby, he was severely ill, and they put him in some sort of an infirmary, and he didn't have any human touch for months.

• 1:02:47Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 1:02:48Joe Rogan?

  For months. They just, they, like, when he cried and he's in his crib, they left him there. His brother talked about it, there's a documentary on Netflix about him, and his brother talked about, like, even before the Harvard LSD studies, he, they would, you know, he was, like, really fucked up, really fucked up, complete lack of empathy, like, and just-

• 1:03:08Speaker 01

  Sociopath.

• 1:03:09Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, a complete sociopath, as a young man, and- It would express itself when he would experience rejection from women. He would have like violent reactions to that rejection and write them horrific letters and torture them and yell at them. Oh, Jesus, it's so scary. And then, then he goes through the Harvard LSD studies, which a part of his particular studies was humiliation. So he would be under the influence and they would humiliate him and they would abuse him and try to get him to a certain state of mind. So then this guy goes off to Berkeley, becomes a professor and his whole idea is to just make enough money so that he can implement this program. Here's what's crazy about his ideas. He's kind of right.

• 1:03:54Joe Rogan?

  Okay. So he's kind of right and he thinks that technology is going to replace human beings. Like he sees this through all of his acid trips, that human beings are going to be replaced, and we probably are. Yeah. We probably are going to be replaced by AI. It's happening. We probably are going to be replaced by synthetic life that we create and we're facilitating that with our reliance on technology. So he decides he's going to live off the grid in a cabin and kill all the people that are involved in technology. A very twisted, distorted reaction to this thing that we're recognizing as being real in 2025, that we are experiencing, we have AI on our phones now. Right.

• 1:04:38Joe Rogan?

  You know, we're constantly being monitored, we're constantly being surveilled. Your rights are getting very murky because all of your data is being given away. Everybody knows everything about you. It's easy to influence people with algorithms and also with bots and it's being used for political discourse. It's being used for so many different things. Essentially, you know, we don't want to think that cults can be half the country, but for sure it can be half the country, it can be the whole country. If you live under Sharia law, it's the whole country. Of course. The whole country believes that women have to cover every part of their body except their eyeballs, you know? Yes. And this is, this kind of thinking, we're very vulnerable to group think and especially group think that's being like intentionally manipulated also and then being done with

• 1:05:23Joe Rogan?

  psychedelic drugs. Now, they did it during the Manson era because they were trying to stop the anti-war movement. So they were trying to, like the hippies and all these people that were like, hey, make love, not war. Right. Like, we have to change the association that the general public has with these people because too many people are joining up with them. And so what they did was they got the Manson family and they got him to commit these horrific crimes and every time Charles Manson would get arrested, he would get let out of jail. I mean, he was violating parole left and right and the cops that arrested him were all being told when they were interviewed, they would say, this is above my pay grade. They're telling me that I have to let him go. So they would be contacted by someone from the State Department or wherever and saying, let him go.

• 1:06:07Speaker 01

  I saw that somewhat alluded to in the documentary of like, well, you know, when the one guy, I'm gonna botch this, never mind. Bottom line is they generally alluded to that, but because I didn't read the book, there wasn't that kind of in-depth takeaway at all.

• 1:06:21Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, unfortunately, the documentaries only look, what, like 90 minutes?

• 1:06:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's very short. And it draws a connection, but it doesn't prove out its points. And I couldn't quite understand, like, well, where's the proof of it until you just explained it?

• 1:06:34Joe Rogan?

  Tom O'Neill, the guy who wrote that book, is, he's been on the podcast before. He was my friend Greg Fitzsimmons' neighbor in New York. And he was writing this 20-plus years. So Greg was his friend when it was happening, like, when he started. So what he was doing is he was writing an article, I think it was for Vanity Fair or Variety, I forget. But the article was on the anniversary of the Manson killings. And so it was supposed to be just like, hey, this is the anniversary, just write an article about the facts. So he starts going into the facts of the case and he's like, whoa, wait a minute. And so he starts investigating and he can't investigate enough.

• 1:07:19Joe Rogan?

  And then he gets in trouble because like the deadline's passed and then he gets a book deal and the deadline passes on that. He's just completely obsessed with getting to the bottom of this and absorbing more and more information and documenting it all. He's got enough for many books and he, I think, I believe he's writing another book right now.

• 1:07:37Speaker 01

  That is absolutely insane.

• 1:07:39Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:39Speaker 01

  You know that the huge irony is that these drugs can, as we both know, these drugs can save lives.

• 1:07:46Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:46Speaker 01

  And I was just talking to Callie and Brigham, then, you know, who are involved in the Texas Ibogaine Initiative. And what's so fascinating is-

• 1:07:54Joe Rogan?

  Very different drug.

• 1:07:55Speaker 01

  Okay, but what about psilocybin? Like, when I talk to-

• 1:07:59Joe Rogan?

  Also a very different drug.

• 1:08:00Speaker 01

  Is it? Really?

• 1:08:01Joe Rogan?

  Very, very different drug. Yeah, LSD is very different than all of those.

• 1:08:05Speaker 01

  So they didn't use psilocybin or Ibogaine or any of that stuff?

• 1:08:07Joe Rogan?

  No, not with that, but perhaps you could, if you did it correctly, if you knew how to manipulate people. Like, Jolly West was well-versed in manipulation. I mean, this was the whole part of the CIA's program. And the, by the way, it's not just the CIA, it's other intelligence agencies. MI5 was doing it, the UK studies on psychedelics. You could see the videos of British troops on acid. They dosed up these British troops from, I want to say it's the 1950s. Do you know that video, Jamie? You know the video, we've played it before. But these guys are, you know, in, with full fatigues, just laughing, leaning up against trees, laughing. They gave them LSD.

• 1:08:52Speaker 01

  To what end?

• 1:08:53Joe Rogan?

  Well, they want to find out what it does. They thought it was a truth serum, turns out it's not, like, well, what can it do? And then, so they used people to try to figure out what can be done with it. So, this is 25 minutes, let's put your headphones on real quick.

• 1:09:07Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:09:07Joe Rogan?

  "The first effects of the drug became apparent."

• 1:09:09Speaker 05

  "The first effects of the drug became apparent. The men began to relax and to giggle. But this man was more seriously affected and had to be removed from the exercise. After 35 minutes, one of the radio operators had become incapable of using his set. And the efficiency of the rocket launcher team was also very impaired." Ten minutes later, the attacking section had lost all sense of urgency. Noticed the bunching and indecision as they enter a wood occupied by the enemy. Almost immediately, the section commander tried to use a map to find the location of troop headquarters, and a prisoner's escort had to have the way pointed out to him, although

• 1:09:52Speaker 05

  it was in plain sight, seven hundred yards away over open country. Fifty minutes after taking the drug, radio communication had become difficult, if not impossible, but the men are still capable of sustained physical effort. This man nearly succeeded in felling this tree using only a spade. However, constructive action was still attempted by those retaining a sense of responsibility in spite of physical symptoms. But one hour and ten minutes after taking the drug, with one man climbing a tree to feed the birds, the troop commander gave up, admitting that he could no longer control himself or his men.

• 1:10:34Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, so this is one of the first experiments they did with LSD and soldiers.

• 1:10:40Speaker 01

  Would you be trying to spray the air over the opposition? I mean, otherwise, what?

• 1:10:46Joe Rogan?

  Well, you could infect their food supply, you could infect their water supply.

• 1:10:51Speaker 01

  So using it against your enemy, so to speak.

• 1:10:54Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you could do that, yeah.

• 1:10:56Speaker 01

  Okay, that's...

• 1:10:57Joe Rogan?

  I mean, there was also some experiments that they ran, um, I think it was in St. Louis, where they were using a fan and they were spraying things, aerosol spraying, to see what kind of effect things would have on people. Like, our government, if you give them the license, right? I don't want to say our government, let's just stop saying that. Let's just say human beings with unchecked power. Human beings with unchecked power that are, they have an imperative. Like, what are they trying to do? Well, they're trying to figure out what this stuff does and what's the best way to do it. You tried it out on soldiers. Like, they've always done that with vaccines and a bunch of different experimental androgens. They've dosed them up with steroids and...

• 1:11:42Joe Rogan?

  All sorts of different things to increase aggression. Methamphetamine was used during the war to get kamikazes to fly their planes into boats.

• 1:11:49Speaker 01

  The Nazis too.

• 1:11:49Joe Rogan?

  The Nazis did it.

• 1:11:50Speaker 01

  Hitler was tweaked out of his skull.

• 1:11:51Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:11:52Speaker 01

  I've seen that footage of him, I think it was at the Olympics.

• 1:11:54Joe Rogan?

  Yes, 1936 Olympics. Just fucking rocking, just rocking.

• 1:12:01Speaker 01

  I've heard that they did not have, that they propped him up on that to the degree that he was able to subsequently convince Mussolini to jump into the mix.

• 1:12:10Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:12:11Speaker 01

  Jesus.

• 1:12:12Joe Rogan?

  Have you ever read Blitzed?

• 1:12:13Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:12:14Joe Rogan?

  It's, uh, do we have it here still, Jamie?

• 1:12:18Joe Rogan?

  Norman Olber wrote this insane book on the ubiquitous use of drugs during the Third Reich and how it caused them to go through Poland in three days because they stayed up for three fucking days on meth. And they gave the most meth to the people that were driving the tanks because they were at the front. So it was like they gave different doses depending on what your job was. And they just methed up, ran through Poland and they caught these people just like in France, like their soldiers were given wine. So these people were like drunk and then the Nazis came through, methed up and just fucking killed everybody.

• 1:12:56Speaker 01

  You know, I've heard, I don't know if this is true or not, so I, I heard that similar things were given, forgive me for throwing this out there, it could be total bullshit, but to Hamas on the October 7th attack in order to be able to commit those kinds of atrocities.

• 1:13:12Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I don't know.

• 1:13:13Speaker 01

  I don't know either, I've heard, I've heard it through friends who are Israeli, it could be bullshit. But I, I would wonder if you have to commit those kinds of violent acts against another human being. I would, I would imagine you'd have to be altered in some capacity. I, I can't even fathom being able to, I, I don't know, I, I can't, I can't wrap my head around it.

• 1:13:36Joe Rogan?

  I think human beings are capable of great atrocities without any kind of.

• 1:13:40Speaker 01

  One on one like that, though?

• 1:13:41Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:42Speaker 01

  Really?

• 1:13:43Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, they do it. I mean, look at Vietnam. Look at the things that people did during Vietnam. I don't, I don't think they dosed them up in Vietnam.

• 1:13:49Speaker 01

  No, I guess you're right.

• 1:13:50Joe Rogan?

  And, you know, in Vietnam, people were taking heroin and smoking weed and they were still doing that. It's, people have an evil capacity to other, other people and decide. You see it politically, you know, in this country, like people on the left will demonize people on the right. People on the right will demonize people on the left. It's just like, it's a tribal thing that it's, it's a, an echo of our past. Because essentially, when we were small tribes of 150 people and then you got invaded by a neighboring tribe, you had to be able to commit extreme violence against the other. And you had to be able to think of them as not you. That's not a person. That's, that's them.

• 1:14:35Joe Rogan?

  And you have to be able to go after them.

• 1:14:36Speaker 06

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• 1:15:07Joe Rogan?

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• 1:15:49Joe Rogan?

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• 1:16:06Speaker 01

  I can understand that broadly.

• 1:16:08Joe Rogan?

  Encouraged by the group and.

• 1:16:08Speaker 01

  Okay, right, fair. But the.

• 1:16:11Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, no, I get it.

• 1:16:13Speaker 01

  So visceral and hideous and I don't mean to bring the vibe down. But it's it's some it's one thing to to kill another human being that I have to. This is how we survive or whatever it is. We're fighting Nazis and you don't have a choice. Okay, fair. But to beheads, just that.

• 1:16:30Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:16:31Speaker 01

  That kind of stuff, I just think.

• 1:16:32Joe Rogan?

  Torture, yeah.

• 1:16:34Speaker 01

  There's no, I I often ask, this is this is going to a very unplanned place, but I ask myself what I'm capable of if somebody hurt my kids or hurt my wife or hurt my mom. What would I be capable of doing?

• 1:16:47Joe Rogan?

  I bet you'd be capable of extreme violence.

• 1:16:49Speaker 01

  I think, oh, without question. But I would be capable of it, but I don't like blood. I can't stand blood. I don't like guts. It would it would make me sick. It would horrify me. So I'm like, how would I? This is the shit that tortures me in the middle of the night when I can't sleep. Like, how far removed am I from this mentality? Like, am I just a few catastrophes away from losing my mind and becoming a lunatic?

• 1:17:12Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's the appeal of The Walking Dead.

• 1:17:14Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:17:14Joe Rogan?

  The Walking Dead, the zombies become inconsequential. The real problem is people.

• 1:17:19Speaker 01

  Yes, that's so true. And I could do a hell of a lot of horrendous things, but I couldn't like some of the torture methods, I don't think, how do you have the stomach for it?

• 1:17:31Joe Rogan?

  Well, like, look at what they did during the Inquisition. You can't say that that was drugs. These were people that just decided they were going to torture people. And they they had, you know, they decided they othered people. And this is, this is a really evil aspect of human nature.

• 1:17:50Speaker 01

  How do you defend against it, do you think? Seriously, like, if we all have it in us, what is the antidote to that?

• 1:17:58Joe Rogan?

  You have to have a strong army. To have people that can defend you against people that want to do that to people here. You know, and that's and then they have to have a strong ethical and moral foundation where they would never.

• 1:18:11Speaker 01

  Be compromised.

• 1:18:12Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, they have to be the good guys. They have to think that they're the good guys and have a very strong ethical and moral foundation. That doesn't allow them to compromise that.

• 1:18:20Speaker 01

  It's tough, though, because when people fight dirty, it's such a massive disadvantage.

• 1:18:25Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:18:26Speaker 01

  That then you think, well, I'm gonna lose if I don't make this sacrifice in how I'm behaving or how I'm tackling this.

• 1:18:31Joe Rogan?

  Well, we like to think that we're the good guys, but the biggest thing that's ever been done to human beings that's horrific is the nuclear bomb. Like indiscriminate killing of civilians, hundreds of thousands, boom, in one shot.

• 1:18:47Speaker 01

  Okay, the argument being that you drop it and then the war ends.

• 1:18:50Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:51Speaker 01

  So it's it's the lesser of evils, you know, you you've sacrificed. I don't know how many hundreds of thousands of people in that moment, but did you save millions down the road? And can you justify the behavior utilizing that logic? Well, you know, I committed this atrocity, but I saved more lives. Like, that's the slippery slope. That I think about often is you were just talking about this the other day when, you know, be careful you don't become a monster.

• 1:19:17Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:17Speaker 01

  When you're fighting monsters.

• 1:19:19Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:19Speaker 01

  And sometimes it's that it's that firefighting fire conversation. You want to use water, but what if it doesn't work?

• 1:19:26Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, sometimes you have to become a monster.

• 1:19:28Speaker 01

  Sometimes you honestly, Joe, I hate to say it, but sometimes you have to.

• 1:19:33Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, if you want to defeat evil, you have to become a monster because if you don't, you won't beat it. You you have to do horrific things to beat horrific people. You have to kill them, right? Like if someone's invading and they're shooting guns at people and they're they show up at the beach and they pull up in boats and they start gunning people down. You have to do the same to stop that. There's there's you can't like bring out daisies and go, hey, guys. Like, I bake you these pot brownies, just like, let's just chill.

• 1:20:00Speaker 01

  Try.

• 1:20:00Joe Rogan?

  Let's just rethink this, man.

• 1:20:03Speaker 01

  I Sebastian Junger said this to me once. He's like, listen, if you aren't willing to talk to the worst enemy, you have to fight them, but it's when the. Talking doesn't work. And you see that all the time.

• 1:20:13Joe Rogan?

  Yep.

• 1:20:14Speaker 01

  You see, I see it in my own personal life. When all of my best intentions and my calmest demeanor and my most empathetic approach to something fails because you're just not dealing with somebody who is rational or well-intentioned. And if you broaden that out.

• 1:20:32Joe Rogan?

  Well, then imagine a language barrier. We have no idea what they're saying.

• 1:20:35Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:20:36Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:20:37Joe Rogan?

  And then a cultural barrier where their culture believes that if they die, that they're going to go to heaven. And that there'd be a martyr. And so they're willing to do that. They're excited to die and to kill you with them. Because they believe that the real prize is not in this life. It's in the next life.

• 1:20:57Speaker 01

  It's insane that we could.

• 1:20:58Joe Rogan?

  But this, we're very vulnerable. We're very vulnerable to this kind of thinking. And I don't know why we're designed this way.

• 1:21:04Speaker 01

  I don't either.

• 1:21:06Joe Rogan?

  It's a distortion probably of tribal, survival, primate instincts. You know, you see it with, have you ever watched Chimp Nation?

• 1:21:15Speaker 01

  No, I was actually going to say animals don't have it, but then here we are.

• 1:21:18Joe Rogan?

  Oh, they do.

• 1:21:19Speaker 01

  Really? I mean, I know lions will kill them, that they're territorial. But the capacity for torture, I've never seen that in the animal kingdom. That kind of.

• 1:21:29Joe Rogan?

  You ever see a cat with a mouse?

• 1:21:31Speaker 01

  Okay. Yeah, I guess I have.

• 1:21:33Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, they torture mice. They hold on to them and then they let them go. And the mouse like, oh, Jesus is gonna let me go. Like, not today, motherfucker. And then they torture them and want to keep playing with them. Yeah, they have zero empathy. Cats are the worst.

• 1:21:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:21:47Joe Rogan?

  They have zero empathy, especially house cats, because they're well-fed, right? So they're not doing it for food. They're just doing it because they have instincts to kill. Like, they're, these instincts are being, they're, they're being distorted, right? Because like, the real instinct that they have to kill is so that they could survive. But when they're fully fed, they don't turn those instincts off. You know, now they just have this kill drive that's never satiated. And, you know, cats are the perfect killer. They move so fast, they're so stealthy, they have it from the time they're kittens. You see them crawl up to each other, like, very slowly, very, they jump on each other.

• 1:22:25Speaker 01

  I'm thinking about our cat, actually, as you're talking.

• 1:22:28Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:28Speaker 01

  And when we lived in Miami, he would use the dog door and he would bring in iguanas.

• 1:22:33Joe Rogan?

  Whoa, yeah.

• 1:22:34Speaker 01

  This big.

• 1:22:35Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Isn't that crazy?

• 1:22:38Speaker 01

  My wife would be like, "Honey!" You know, chasing this fucking iguana around the house. It was, it was ridic- yeah, and he wouldn't, he wouldn't kill it.

• 1:22:47Joe Rogan?

  No, they're not trying to kill it, they're having fun.

• 1:22:49Speaker 01

  He was having fun, now that I, I mean, you're right.

• 1:22:50Joe Rogan?

  You have a little murderer that you live with.

• 1:22:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:22:52Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:53Speaker 01

  Cute little bastard, but yes.

• 1:22:54Joe Rogan?

  That's what cats are, you know, and that's a part of their essence. I mean, they are the cleanup crew. They're, they're there to make sure the populations don't get out of control.

• 1:23:03Speaker 01

  God, you bring up such a great point.

• 1:23:05Joe Rogan?

  Ever see the numbers on cats, like, domestic cats, what they kill every year?

• 1:23:08Speaker 01

  The birds, I know they kill a crazy amount of-

• 1:23:11Joe Rogan?

  Billions.

• 1:23:12Speaker 01

  Billions?

• 1:23:13Joe Rogan?

  Billions. Billions of birds and billions of rodents.

• 1:23:16Speaker 01

  Oh, he's an indoor cat now, I don't want everybody to know this.

• 1:23:18Joe Rogan?

  Let's look at the numbers.

• 1:23:19Speaker 01

  Jesus, really?

• 1:23:20Joe Rogan?

  Because people, we brought it up before, but it's, it's worth repeating, because it's, it's kind of crazy. So it sort of illustrates this point. So this is like-

• 1:23:28Speaker 01

  Billions?

• 1:23:29Joe Rogan?

  Yes. B, with B, like multiple-

• 1:23:32Speaker 01

  I didn't know there were that many house cats.

• 1:23:34Joe Rogan?

  Oh, it does, they don't have to be, they, they kill hundreds. Each cat, feral cats are ruthless. House cats, feral cats, wild cats, any cat that's outside. Yeah, they instantly kill. Okay, here it is. Domestic cats are the leading cause of bird deaths in the United States. Estimated to kill 1.3 and 4 billion birds annually. This includes both pet cats and cats that roam outdoors and feral cats.

• 1:23:58Speaker 01

  Jesus.

• 1:23:59Joe Rogan?

  American bird conservancy estimates that free-ranging cats kill approximately 2.4 million. It's hard to know what the real numbers are-

• 1:24:06Speaker 01

  Of course, right, yeah, but it's high.

• 1:24:08Joe Rogan?

  But they know it's in the billions.

• 1:24:09Speaker 01

  It's, it's in the billions.

• 1:24:10Joe Rogan?

  But imagine how many birds there would be if cats didn't do that. Like, who's gonna kill them? Like, they, fucking, the sky would be filled with birds, you go outside, just shit on everywhere.

• 1:24:19Speaker 01

  I'm like, Alfred Hitchcock movie.

• 1:24:20Joe Rogan?

  It's kind of crazy.

• 1:24:21Speaker 01

  I mean, when you, when you do look back at the plague, and they started killing all the cats, because they were associated with witches, and that's when the plague was able to kind of run more rampant-

• 1:24:30Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:24:31Speaker 01

  Because the cats were keeping that rat population down, and like, the fleas on the rats caused-

• 1:24:35Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's the coyote problem in California, right? Like, people are like, "Oh, I hate coyotes." Right. But do you hate coyotes more than you hate rats? Because coyotes are the reason why rats aren't everywhere. You know, like, where I used to live, like, I, there was a lot of coyotes, but I don't see very many rats. And that's the reason why. Like, the wolves, the little wolves, which is what a coyote is, the small wolf, they're rat killers. And rabbit killers and everything else they get a hold of.

• 1:25:05Speaker 01

  They, I, I mean, it's, it's obvious that they're playing a role.

• 1:25:08Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:09Speaker 01

  In, you know, this.

• 1:25:10Joe Rogan?

  Ecosystem.

• 1:25:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. But I, because everyone in California just thinks they ate my pomeranian.

• 1:25:16Joe Rogan?

  Oh, they probably did.

• 1:25:18Speaker 01

  Yeah. And they probably did. I mean, as a child.

• 1:25:20Joe Rogan?

  They ate my daughter's puppy. Yeah. They, um, but a mountain lion ate one of my dogs when I lived in Colorado.

• 1:25:26Speaker 01

  Oh, it's hard.

• 1:25:28Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's like, these cats are motherfuckers, you know?

• 1:25:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:25:31Joe Rogan?

  And predators, like, at least predators are doing it for food.

• 1:25:35Speaker 01

  Well, I was gonna say, you don't hold it against, as a child, I lost a dog to a coyote. To this day, I don't, I don't have, like, I don't hate coyotes. It's like, well, the dog was in the yard and we didn't coyote-proof the yard enough. Let's fucking coyote-proof the yard now.

• 1:25:47Joe Rogan?

  You can't really coyote-proof your yard either. I had a coyote kill a chicken in my yard. We had a six-foot tall, uh, six-foot-tall wrought iron fence.

• 1:25:54Speaker 01

  With the rollers on it?

• 1:25:56Joe Rogan?

  No, we didn't have the rollers. But the coyote, with the chicken in its mouth, leaped to the top like a ballerina. Like, it was so elegant, the way, I was really impressed with its athleticism. And I was a person who, like, admires physical feats. I was like, well, that's very impressive. Cause with a chicken in its mouth, leaped up to the top of the fence, got its paws on it, went over just so gracefully and so adept. It was really impressive.

• 1:26:24Speaker 01

  Okay, fair. This is, like, I, I guess animals do have a propensity for, cats in particular. I, I did not think of it that way. That makes me feel a little better.

• 1:26:32Joe Rogan?

  The cat thing is fucked up, cause they're not even doing it for food. It's, but it's like, that thing inside of them has been, it's there. You can't satisfy it with just food. I mean, they literally are the cre, the cleanup crew for nature. That's what they are in Africa. When you see them, they're looking for the wounded antelopes. They're looking for anybody who's old. They're looking for anybody who just can't run fast enough. And that's what they do. And that's how they keep the populations down. You know, this is the reason why they've reintroduced wolves into Colorado. And that's the reason why they reintroduced wolves in Montana. And the elk populations decreased significantly because the elk populations were out of control.

• 1:27:10Speaker 01

  Right, right, right, right.

• 1:27:11Joe Rogan?

  So they brought in wolves and the wolves, like, radically dropped the population down. And they even do surplus killing, where they'll kill a bunch of things where they can't eat. They, but just that they can't help themselves. They have the opportunity to kill, and so they do.

• 1:27:25Speaker 01

  So what is the, what is the antidote to this within the human population? Because I see the necessity for survival, but it can make you quite depressed if you let it. It can make you a bit nihilistic and fighting for the hope and the good is so my, see, my mom says that to me all the time because when I try to show her some of the things you and I talked about in the beginning. And I'm like, don't you see? And this is rigged and who's really pulling the strings and these are bad guys. And she's like, honey, I'm 76. Like, leave me alone.

• 1:28:01Joe Rogan?

  And that's fine.

• 1:28:02Speaker 01

  I want to.

• 1:28:03Joe Rogan?

  There's nothing wrong with that.

• 1:28:04Speaker 01

  You know, she's like, I want to see the good in people. Try to see Mr. Rogers, look for the helpers. But you can fall into really becoming nihilistic about humanity. When you, when you witness these things and have these conversations and I try so hard to not go there in my head, but it's hard not to.

• 1:28:27Joe Rogan?

  Well, we are primitive.

• 1:28:29Speaker 01

  Not be calm that way.

• 1:28:29Joe Rogan?

  We're a primitive evolving species and we're, we're still trapped with these primate bodies. We're territorial primates with weapons, you know, and we're still trapped with the same, same instincts that got us to the dance, the same instincts that caused us to create walled cities, which, you know, allowed us to survive. And then agriculture, which allowed us to develop surpluses and then people wanted those surpluses nomads. And they came in the roving barbarians, the Mongolian hordes, you know, this is, this is like all part of our history. And this is the battle of good versus evil. And the battle of good versus evil, I think this duality has to exist.

• 1:29:12Joe Rogan?

  I think you have to have good to combat evil and you have to have evil to keep good in check, like to enhance good. And to force people to really. To rise and to innovate and to figure out how to defeat evil. Without evil and without the idea of these horrors, we never would have developed cities. If we never developed cities, we never would have gone through the Industrial Revolution. We wouldn't develop cities if we were just roving, peaceful, nomadic hunter-gatherers. It just, we would be the same.

• 1:29:45Speaker 01

  It serves its purpose. I've read all my Khalil Gibran. It's like, oh, you know, the deeper your pain, like, the more ability you have for empathy. And I get all of it, but it's seemingly imbalanced now. And I guess that's what I mean.

• 1:30:00Joe Rogan?

  It's always like that, but that is what causes people to strive to do better.

• 1:30:04Speaker 01

  I hope you're right, Joe.

• 1:30:06Joe Rogan?

  I think it is.

• 1:30:06Speaker 01

  I mean, you're definitely one of those guys, which is why, bringing it back to the very beginning, I think that you're number one, but I also think, you know, you're one out of quite a few. But I hope you're right.

• 1:30:22Joe Rogan?

  You know, you have to have principles that you live your life by, right? And be aware of evil, but do your best to be good.

• 1:30:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, and you see the fight.

• 1:30:34Joe Rogan?

  Without evil, like, you have no desire to be good. Like, why be so, why be wonderful? Why be kind? And why, there's no contrast. There's nothing you're fighting against. Like, this is unfortunately what motivates entropy.

• 1:30:50Speaker 01

  What makes you choose, though? Okay, so another thing that I've thought about often is like, evil never stops going. Have you ever heard that good has to decide when it gets out of bed in the morning? Like, you're on the freeway and someone's got a, is broken down on the side of the freeway. And it's like, are you late for something? Are you worried? There are a million things that will influence whether or not I stop that day. But a bad guy will always see an opportunity to go after that person. Evil works tirelessly and good requires a sacrifice. You sacrifice yourself.

• 1:31:32Joe Rogan?

  Disconnect the mic cable.

• 1:31:34Speaker 01

  Me?

• 1:31:34Joe Rogan?

  No. I think it's disconnected. Where the mic?

• 1:31:37Speaker 01

  Too dark of a conversation. It's like, that's it. No more of this dark shit.

• 1:31:42Joe Rogan?

  Is it back now? Oh, yep. That's weird. I didn't even touch it. It's happened before, I don't know. Okay, I'm back.

• 1:31:48Speaker 01

  This is, yeah, this is a time for-

• 1:31:49Joe Rogan?

  It's evil. Evil's trying to stop me from saying-

• 1:31:51Speaker 01

  Yes, it is.

• 1:31:52Joe Rogan?

  The moment I'm saying there's more good than there is evil.

• 1:31:55Speaker 01

  The mic disconnects.

• 1:31:56Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I think unfortunately evil can co-op people and because good people can become evil when they experience so much evil that they have to become, you know, become a monster.

• 1:32:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:32:06Joe Rogan?

  Fight against monsters.

• 1:32:06Speaker 01

  I'm seeing it even in, in the health space. As sometimes I'll, Brigham is dealing with the FDA stuff right now and I was talking to him this morning and he's like, "Jillian." And he's talking about trying to compound peptides and there's a war on peptides and there's a war on stem cells. And of course, it's like the cutting edge of medicine, but he's like describing what they're going up against in dealing with this and it's, it's evil. Like, why would you want to prevent these life-saving treatments?

• 1:32:38Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's a perfect example.

• 1:32:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:32:40Joe Rogan?

  That's money. And if money is the devil, that, that's a perfect example.

• 1:32:44Speaker 01

  How much do you need though, Joe?

• 1:32:46Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:46Speaker 01

  That's my question.

• 1:32:48Joe Rogan?

  It's not you though. The problem is corporations, I'm sure you've seen this before. Corporations behave like a psychopath. Right? Because corporations don't have humanity. And when you have a corporation, which I don't know how we get away from not having corporations, so what's the solution there? But corporations have an obligation to their shareholders.

• 1:33:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:33:07Joe Rogan?

  And sometimes you have to do fucked up things in order to make more money. And that's, when you're in the business of drugs, like that's, like, if you're in the business of making movies, I mean, what fucked up things can you do to make more movies and make movies that more people are gonna see? Really, nothing. It's like, you just have to make them- Resonate with people, but if you're selling drugs, well, boy, you can influence people. You can lie about studies. You can have your scientists perform studies and then throw out all the studies that don't jive with whatever you're trying to sell.

• 1:33:39Speaker 01

  Compounding pharmacies kicking them out.

• 1:33:43Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you compromise all these politicians and get them to repeat your narratives.

• 1:33:47Speaker 01

  That should be illegal, though.

• 1:33:48Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:33:49Speaker 01

  That should be illegal. You should be able to get rid of citizens who know.

• 1:33:53Joe Rogan?

  So how do you get it out?

• 1:33:55Speaker 01

  You gotta reform campaign finance. Do you remember many moons ago, I believe it was John Edwards, who was running on that many moons ago? But as a kid, I didn't fully understand what that meant. As an adult, no one's ever brought that, I mean, kind of, Bernie?

• 1:34:11Joe Rogan?

  Here's step one. You gotta say they can't advertise. That's number one. Because not only is it not, advertising is not really the problem. It's part of the problem. But the real problem is when they advertise, and Callie Means talked about this extensively, now the media will not criticize them because they're responsible for an enormous percentage of their income.

• 1:34:30Speaker 01

  Seventy plus percent. But the issue, I've had this conversation recently, and the issue's gonna be freedom of speech here. It's gonna be a First Amendment fight.

• 1:34:38Joe Rogan?

  But that's not a First Amendment thing. Because you could still do it on social media. You could still, like, make your own podcast if you're Pfizer.

• 1:34:46Speaker 01

  That's the angle they're gonna take, I am sure of it.

• 1:34:48Joe Rogan?

  Right, but you can't advertise for cigarettes on television. Why? Because we've decided that cigarettes...

• 1:34:54Speaker 01

  Kids, I think. I think it's kids. I've heard this conversation, and I'm trying to remember who one of the researchers was, but Callie was there, Mark Hyman was there, and they were having this exact conversation. And one of the people on the other side was suggesting that they have already gamed this out, and that's the way that they're gonna go.

• 1:35:14Joe Rogan?

  Ironically, this is self-sabotage for the media itself because no one takes them seriously anymore because they don't do that. Because they don't criticize the pharmaceutical drug companies. They don't talk about vaccine side effects. They don't talk about pharmaceutical drug side effects. They don't.

• 1:35:29Speaker 01

  They make you look like you're insane when you do.

• 1:35:31Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you're a crazy person.

• 1:35:32Speaker 01

  I was on CNN talking about Ozempic one time, and then they essentially called me anti-science because I suggested that a lot of the drugs, yeah, I was like, whoa. And they're like, well, we give people statins and we give people blood pressure medication.

• 1:35:45Joe Rogan?

  Don't look at the fucking data on statins, by the way.

• 1:35:49Speaker 01

  I was initiating that conversation and I was called anti-science and

• 1:35:55Joe Rogan?

  That's not even anti-science. They don't understand the data.

• 1:35:58Speaker 01

  They won't even allow you to express that on the show anyway. Then never again invited on CNN.

• 1:36:07Joe Rogan?

  Because they're compromised. It's not really news. It's only the news that they feel compelled to talk about due to their financial interests.

• 1:36:16Speaker 01

  They buy the narrative.

• 1:36:17Joe Rogan?

  But the problem with that, like, look at the ratings on CNN. They're fucking collapsing and they're in a spiral. Why? Because no one trusts them anymore. So the public trust has been eroded because of their own desire to make more money. I know how chaotic things get this time of the year between all the holidays, trying to train and last-minute projects at work. It can seem impossible to get everything done. If you feel like you're running on fumes, AG1 Next Gen is an easy way to get the support that you need. With over 75 ingredients and five clinically-studied probiotic strains, it supports your energy and your immune health, among other things. And for extra boost, there's AG1 Pro.

• 1:37:00Joe Rogan?

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• 1:37:44Joe Rogan?

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• 1:38:28Joe Rogan?

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• 1:38:44Speaker 01

  There's an opportunity where a network wanted me to compete against these GLP-1 drugs. And everyone loves the idea, but the top concern is, oh, what if Jillian wins? And then it'll be a catastrophe. So the ad sales department is like, I don't, I don't know if we can do this. We can't call it Jillian versus, we can't call it that. What are we going to call it? I don't know how we're going to position this. And I was like, we don't need to, we don't even need to bash it. Let me just do my job. Let's see what happens. But they're even afraid, like, God forbid I won.

• 1:39:17Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:39:17Speaker 01

  And was able to do it naturally.

• 1:39:19Joe Rogan?

  Do you think there's an argument for GLP-1 drugs, though, for people who are morbidly obese? Because I kind of do.

• 1:39:25Speaker 01

  Okay, so here's where I've gotten to on all, all medications largely. It's a cost benefit analysis. So if you brought an individual who was morbidly obese and already had atherosclerosis and type 2 diabetes and chronic kidney disease, and you said, we've tried everything, they're a death store and this is arguably the last step. Well, in that case, The downsides of the medications are far less than not trying it. So in that instance, you could twist my arm for sure.

• 1:40:02Speaker 01

  But if you gave me my way, I would prefer to look at what the medications like ibogaine or psilocybin could do for the psychological component, the addictive component.

• 1:40:16Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 1:40:16Speaker 01

  One treatment.

• 1:40:17Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:40:18Speaker 01

  Doesn't go on forever. And then, because diet and exercise do work. What's stopping them from engaging in those habits consistently is all the stuff we talked about in the beginning, the psychological component, the physical addiction. So, you know, no one's ever tried it, though. So there's no way to actually know. And you can't, it's almost impossible to do the research on it, which is, again, why the Texas Ibogaine Initiative is so important.

• 1:40:42Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:40:42Speaker 01

  Is you can begin this kind of research, although it is in veterans and addiction and so on, but would that be the first step? And when I've asked the people in the space, like Matt Shepherd, for example, who is at Shepherd Pratt, and one of the guys that's the foremost experts on psilocybin and treating addiction, he's like, yeah, theoretically, it would work great. Theoretically. So for me, if we got all the way to this place and I had no choice, that's like saying, Jill, if someone had stage four cancer, would you do chemo? I mean, I guess so. But I'd like to, if there was an alternative way forward, or if we could prevent it to begin with, that would be ideal. So you could twist my arm to that point. I think there's something to be said for, again, what Brigham is doing, it weighs

• 1:41:23Speaker 01

  too well, which is why being able to compound the GLP-1 drugs allows you to titrate the dose. So when people argue with me on this matter, they'll suggest that a titrated dose, a lesser amount of these drugs can be effective with significantly less side effects. But, you know, when they're trying to block that and you can't even explore it.

• 1:41:44Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. It's all weird because I think the problem also is competition, right? If ibogaine becomes ubiquitous and these clinics become everywhere, the real issue becomes how much does that compete with the pharmaceutical drug market's value? How much does that decrease their ability to profit? And it's probably significantly.

• 1:42:08Speaker 01

  I mean, if it impacts antidepressants alone, that's significant. If it, if it's, if one treatment. Could have the impact on obesity that it does on opioid addiction. And GLP-1s are the most profitable drug of all time.

• 1:42:27Joe Rogan?

  But here's the thing, if they do allow the use of Ibogaine and then also they allow the use of psilocybin, if more people start taking it, more people are not going to buy whatever the pharmaceutical drug companies are selling, and they'll just naturally sort of deteriorate. You're always going to have fools. You're always going to have people that just want to, "What do I take? I'll take it." There's always going to be people like that, you know, and those people are there to give you a lesson without you having to fall prey to the folly that they have fallen prey to. I think that's the same with a lot of addictions, particularly gambling addiction. I'm in Vegas all the time and I don't gamble. I play blackjack for fun, but like 20 bucks here,

• 1:43:12Joe Rogan?

  a hundred dollars. I don't get it, but I see it. I see it. I see that crazed look in the... I think gambling addiction is one of the weirder ones. I've been around it a good portion of my life, and it's the sweaty fucking faces, this need to gamble is really nuts. And that's another part of the human reward system that's been hijacked.

• 1:43:36Speaker 01

  The intermittent rewarding, yeah, is the most powerful.

• 1:43:39Joe Rogan?

  It's crazy.

• 1:43:40Speaker 01

  That's a study, have you ever seen it, with like the rats, where they push the button, no food comes out. Push the button, food comes out. So the ones that get the intermittent food reward will sit there and push that damn button until they collapse of exhaustion. The ones that push for a little while get nothing, give up. The ones that push until they get food every time, get full and give up.

• 1:43:57Joe Rogan?

  It's slot machine logic. It's the same thing.

• 1:44:00Speaker 01

  It's that intermittent reinforcement. It's exceptionally powerful.

• 1:44:03Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, we're easy to manipulate. We're weird creatures.

• 1:44:05Speaker 01

  I know.

• 1:44:06Joe Rogan?

  And it's again, it's all our survival instincts. Get hijacked.

• 1:44:10Speaker 01

  But if you gave them an alternative path when they are ready for help.

• 1:44:15Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:44:16Speaker 01

  When the horse is ready to drink, and you had an alternative method that we're seeing work.

• 1:44:22Joe Rogan?

  Yes. Well, that's the thing. You have to have freedom of the use of these alternative methods. And I think naturally, those would overcome. They would succeed. I think you'd still probably have gambling addicts. You still probably would have people that want to take all the pharmaceutical drugs, like whatever the doctor wants to prescribe to them. But it would be less and less. And they don't want that, which is why you're seeing the pushback from the FDA with peptides and all these different things is because they're concerned that if you give people a bunch of things that are going to make them healthy, they're not going to take as many pharmaceutical drugs.

• 1:44:52Speaker 01

  Oh, without, I mean, which is why there's no model for prevention in healthcare.

• 1:44:56Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:44:57Speaker 01

  It's not profitable at all. But it's ridiculous. There's a peptide called cerebralizing that they give to stroke patients in other parts of the developed world that can have a massive impact as well on cognitive function and can be neuroprotective. You can't even buy it here. Literally, I had to find it in Austria, ship it into the country, and Brigham and Dr. Rixpert, I was like, now what do I do with this? Brigham had to walk me through how to use it on frigging FaceTime. He's like, it's not, it's ridiculous.

• 1:45:32Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:45:33Speaker 01

  It is insane.

• 1:45:34Joe Rogan?

  It's pretty crazy.

• 1:45:35Speaker 01

  And I like, it's.

• 1:45:36Joe Rogan?

  By the way, there's a new stroke drug that I actually just sent my friend Rich, because our friend Keith Robinson, I don't have his number, but he suffered from a stroke. And there's some new drug that, I'll send this to you, Jamie. These UCLA scientists have developed, oh, you got it already. They developed first drug rehabilitation to repair brain damage. Drug replicated the recovery of movement control produced by rehab in mice.

• 1:46:03Speaker 01

  Oh, that's cool.

• 1:46:05Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. So this is, this is March 18. New study by UCLA Health has discovered what researchers say is the first drug to fully reproduce a, reproduce the effects of physical stroke rehabilitation in model mice following from human studies. Yeah. So, which is wonderful. It's amazing. So this is the benefit of pharmaceutical drugs.

• 1:46:27Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:46:27Joe Rogan?

  Like, there are some pharmaceutical drugs that are wonderful. So the goal is to have a medicine that stroke patients can take that produces the effects of rehabilitation. Dr. S. Thomas Carmichael, the study's lead author and professor and chair of UCLA neurology. Rehabilitation after stroke is limited in its actual effects because most patients cannot sustain the rehab intensity needed for stroke recovery. Further, stroke recovery is not like most other fields of medicine where drugs are available to treat the disease such as cardiology, infectious disease, or cancer. Carmichael said rehabilitation is a physical medicine approach that has been around for decades. We need to move rehabilitation into an era of molecular medicine. So this is why, you know, you don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

• 1:47:10Speaker 01

  You're totally right. It's always like that, though. Everything is a U-shaped curve.

• 1:47:13Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, there's drugs that the pharmaceutical drug companies make that help people and heal them and fix them and save their lives.

• 1:47:19Speaker 01

  I couldn't agree with you more.

• 1:47:21Joe Rogan?

  It's great.

• 1:47:22Speaker 01

  It's like, but it is that Goldilocks.

• 1:47:25Joe Rogan?

  Just like you have to, you know, keep your kids from eating all the sugar.

• 1:47:28Speaker 01

  Completely. I mean, I just got whooping cough and Joe. I literally thought I was going to die. I ended up, at week seven, I called my internist and I was like, I think you need to check me in the fucking hospital. This is insane. I think I'm going to die. And they hit me with the horns. And the long story short is, I am vaccinated for it, but I guess my vax, or my, um, my vaccination or my booster is old. I don't even remember the last time I got it. My wife is vaccinated, my kids are vaccinated for it, my mom is vaccinated for it. Everybody in my, my circle is vaccinated, no one got it. I strongly recommend getting your D-TAP vaccine because whooping cough, it was a hundred days of it.

• 1:48:11Speaker 01

  So for, my point being like, I don't want the COVID, um, chillian, I don't want the COVID vaccine and I don't need it. But I, in any universe for me personally, I would, if I would have known I was behind on that booster, it's like, everything has a cost benefit analysis. Everything, it's like the dose is what makes the poison. Everything is that U-shaped curve and approaching it with nuance. Is really the only intelligent way forward to make the best decisions for yourself. But you need the right information to do that.

• 1:48:41Joe Rogan?

  Right, and we need to have actual access to data. And this is a real problem that we've had in the last few decades because there's been this revolving door between the FDA and pharmaceutical drug companies. So people were there, the head, I think it's like seven out of eight heads of the FDA went on to work for pharmaceutical drug companies.

• 1:49:00Speaker 01

  Revolving door, 100%.

• 1:49:01Joe Rogan?

  Which, so you've developed these relationships with these pharmaceutical drug companies where you're like, they're funding the studies, they're funding all, and then you leave and then you go to work for them and you get a nice cushy job. So you kinda like, look sideways, you look away.

• 1:49:17Speaker 01

  I was, when I was at the senate testimony, I can't remember how many months ago that was, but Callie Means had us meeting with different senators and their aides, and a kid came up to me, and I of course brought that up, and he's like, "It's so much worse than that." And I was like, "Elaborate, what do you mean it's so much worse than that?" And he said essentially, "They developed the drug, have stock in the company, go to work at the FDA, approve the drug, and go back to the drug company."

• 1:49:42Joe Rogan?

  Ugh.

• 1:49:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, I was like, "Oh, there's another step." Okay, got it!

• 1:49:49Joe Rogan?

  It's so crazy, it should be completely illegal. Yeah, I mean, wanna talk about a conflict of interest, that's the biggest conflict ever, and you're dealing with billions of dollars in profit.

• 1:50:00Speaker 01

  I was working on a book, or had been working on a book, where it looks at each and every law that was put into place with good intentions, and the road to hell is paved with good intentions, and how each and every one was co-opted by Big Food, or Big Ag, or Big Pharma, to wreck complete havoc and destruction.

• 1:50:21Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:50:21Speaker 01

  And that's what you see, all the time.

• 1:50:23Joe Rogan?

  That's what you see, and you're gonna keep seeing that if nothing gets changed. And that's what's encouraging about this administration. So the thing, the thing that I was most excited about was Bobby Kennedy. When Bobby Kennedy united with Trump, I was like, "Okay, I'm in." Because like, if he can get in there, you can see real change that's gonna affect the way our lives are forever. It's gonna change things. It's gonna give people a real understanding of what's going on behind the scenes, why you've been lied to, why all these drugs are ever, why you're seeing poor health outcomes, why we're the richest nation in the world, but also the sickest, you know, why, and across the board with education, we're the richest nation

• 1:51:04Joe Rogan?

  in the world, we have the, we have terrible education scores, like, why? Why, since we developed a department of education, have our scores plummeted? Like, what is that? And again, road to hell, good intentions.

• 1:51:16Speaker 01

  Yes, 100%. I was speaking with Kelly, and he's like, you know, don't pull punches, because you want to be diplomatic, but I'm finding myself defending Kennedy, who, by the way, I've met twice. I have no, I don't work for this administration, I have no personal affiliation. It's just right and wrong. There is a huge problem that needs to be addressed, and this administration wants to address it. And yet, you are seeing the resistance, you are seeing the opposition flood the zone with hysteria, 24 fucking 7, and it's crazy.

• 1:51:57Speaker 01

  It's constantly taking people off peace. I actually did an interview the other day on News Nation, where the host is like, well, you know, he promised results on autism by September, and that's unrealistic. And I was like, who gives a fuck if it's unrealistic? Aren't you glad we're looking at it? It's genetic. I'm like, do you really believe that?

• 1:52:15Joe Rogan?

  Why would anybody say that without doing decades of research themselves?

• 1:52:19Speaker 01

  I cannot, I, I, I'm like, do you really think?

• 1:52:23Joe Rogan?

  Do you know California's, it's now some insane number, like, 1 in 12, boys?

• 1:52:28Speaker 01

  It's, it's higher in California, obviously, than anywhere else in the country, and boys in particular over girls. But the reality is that we don't know!

• 1:52:39Joe Rogan?

  Well, they also think that one of the reasons why it's boys over girls is like, in girls, it's like, less obvious. It's less diagnosed.

• 1:52:46Speaker 01

  That's interesting.

• 1:52:47Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I've seen that. I'm not sure if that's true either, because that's the argument also, it's like, oh, autism has always been here, it's just, it just hasn't been diagnosed correctly.

• 1:52:56Speaker 01

  That was debunked, though, by the Mind Institute at UC Davis. It was like, no, that bullshit. It was one in 150, 20 years ago.

• 1:53:04Joe Rogan?

  But people don't want to admit they did that to their kids. And so they will defend it to the death. Just like people who've turned their kids trans don't want to admit that these are chemical castration drugs. They don't want to admit it. They don't want to admit that they possibly have contributed to mental disease, their mental health disease, to anxiety and depression and suicide. No, no, no. Would you rather have a live boy or a dead girl?

• 1:53:28Speaker 01

  Right, exactly.

• 1:53:30Joe Rogan?

  What are you fucking saying?

• 1:53:31Speaker 01

  But it's a closed system. And what I mean by that is even if I did the gimme. Oh, you're right. Autism is genetic. Well, what about the rise in early onset cancer diagnosis? The rise in obesity? The steady increase of infertility year after year after year? We went from adult onset diabetes to type 2 diabetes because children have type 2 diabetes now. It's, oh, come on. How far you want to push it? People are not stupid. They're not. You can capture them to a point. But when the evidence is overwhelming, we are sicker than ever. And the resistance is mind blowing to this guy every day.

• 1:54:14Speaker 01

  Oh, well, now, you know, he fired the guy that's tracking gonorrhea. I'm like, you know what? I mean, wear a fucking condom, for God's sake. I don't think you're that worried. Hopefully, that guy will get his job back. But at the end of the day, he's also tackling the grass rule and trying to get to the bottom of autism and getting poison out of baby formula and removing soda from snaps. It's just like, where is the perspective for the general public to read through the media bullshit?

• 1:54:44Joe Rogan?

  Well, the problem is it's gone tribal, right? And when you have an us versus them thing going on, which is what we do here in this country. You know, like, I keep seeing, like, people online saying, in these dark times.

• 1:54:57Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:54:57Joe Rogan?

  Are these times so dark? Like, what is happening? But, you know, you know what's dark? Yeah, if you're living in Gaza, it's pretty fucking dark. If you're living in Ukraine, pretty dark. But like here is have things gone dark? Like you know this totalitarian regime like okay what's totalitarian? That they're cutting fraud and waste like have you paid attention to the fraud and waste? You paid attention to the fact they spent 250 million dollars on transgender animal studies? Like where's your fucking money going? You're not concerned with this unchecked spending that this government has been able to do for decade upon decade? And these millions of NGOs? Do you know there's an NGO in India for every 600 people?

• 1:55:38Speaker 01

  I did not I I have heard it's CIA slush. I've watched that episode with my friends at least 10 of them.

• 1:55:43Joe Rogan?

  3 million NGOs in India. There's an NGO in India for every 600 people. And this is why we're 36 trillion dollars in debt. Like that those numbers are nuts.

• 1:55:57Speaker 01

  Can I can I be the the the opposition on this?

• 1:56:00Joe Rogan?

  Sure, please do.

• 1:56:02Speaker 01

  There's children that are starving, Joe. You've taken their food away.

• 1:56:05Joe Rogan?

  Well, we definitely shouldn't do that. You know what? If you can prove that this this is also the problem with charities. This is the dark truth of charities is that most charities, the money goes to bureaucracy. A huge percentage of it goes to overhead. And in fact, most charities, the vast majority of the money never gets to the charity.

• 1:56:25Speaker 01

  Homelessness in California, 24 billion gone. Where is it?

• 1:56:30Joe Rogan?

  It was.

• 1:56:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, where's the money?

• 1:56:32Joe Rogan?

  Spent on free needles or something.

• 1:56:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. That's exactly what it was spent on.

• 1:56:38Joe Rogan?

  It wasn't even it's probably fraud and waste.

• 1:56:40Speaker 01

  It's both.

• 1:56:40Joe Rogan?

  And there's also in the well, my friend Colian Noir, he brought this up and I was never aware of it until he said it. He went to San Francisco and he saw the rampant and he's a lawyer. So he went to San Francisco and he saw all this homelessness and he's like, what is the problem? There's not enough funding? And a guy over there going, no, no, no, no, no, you don't understand. It's the opposite. There's a business now. So these people that are working in the homeless. You know, whatever the organization, they're making a quarter million dollars a year.

• 1:57:08Speaker 01

  Half a million in some cases. I don't know if you've seen Anna Kasparian talk about this, but she can elaborate on this subject matter to the point that you literally want to forcibly remove Gavin Newsom from office. It is staggering, and some of them, half a million bucks and nothing.

• 1:57:30Joe Rogan?

  They're doing a great job. Just imagine if they weren't there, how much homeless we'd have. We'd all be homeless.

• 1:57:34Speaker 01

  I know. This is, you've seen him talk.

• 1:57:36Joe Rogan?

  Everyone would be homeless, so just relax.

• 1:57:38Speaker 01

  Well, you know, it's, I just had this conversation, actually. I was talking to Corolla, and he was telling me that Gavin Newsom had told him back in the day that the face of homelessness was not addiction and mental illness, it was women and children. And there's a loophole. A friend of mine, who's a reporter with the New York Times, looked into it, because she's like, why didn't you push back on that? I'm like, because he's right. She goes, no, no, no, no, I looked into it, and it's women and children. And then she ended up getting to the bottom of the loophole, and the way that he was able to put forward that narrative is that homeless is a person without a stable address, and that's predominantly women and children. But unsheltered is what we consider homeless, the people in the streets and the tent camps,

• 1:58:23Speaker 01

  and arguably, that is largely.

• 1:58:25Joe Rogan?

  So what is, I don't understand, what's the definition?

• 1:58:27Speaker 01

  Okay, so, so Newsom was saying to Corolla, like, you're so insensitive, and the face of homeless.

• 1:58:34Joe Rogan?

  Because children don't own homes?

• 1:58:36Speaker 01

  He was saying that women, like, the mom that owns two jobs, that's who I'm trying to save. Like, we don't need to tackle addiction, and we don't need to tackle mental illness, because this is, this is about the underprivileged individual, the female, single mom with two kids, who, you know, this is the face of homelessness. And Corolla was like, you're a sociopath. It's. Addicts and people with mental illness. And I ended up then in a debate with this journalist who's lovely, named Molly. And she's like, well, the statistics say that homelessness is in fact, women and children. But when I challenged her and sent her San Francisco, whatever, we go back and forth. And she ended up coming back to me after doing the homework.

• 1:59:20Speaker 01

  And there is a distinction between homeless and unsheltered. So homeless are people with unstable addresses. And that is women and children. So I'm like.

• 1:59:33Joe Rogan?

  How do, why?

• 1:59:34Speaker 01

  In a temporary, I couldn't quite extrapolate what.

• 1:59:38Joe Rogan?

  So is it like divorce?

• 1:59:40Speaker 01

  I guess it's like in temporary housing or, you know, in an apartment somewhere. But unsheltered, the people on the street that you and I would go homeless. In the tent camp outside on the sidewalk.

• 1:59:56Joe Rogan?

  So they're playing semantics.

• 1:59:58Speaker 01

  That's what he's doing.

• 1:59:59Joe Rogan?

  Oh, God.

• 2:00:00Speaker 01

  That's what I'm trying to get at.

• 2:00:01Joe Rogan?

  How gross.

• 2:00:02Speaker 01

  Yes. I'm sorry. Cannot stand the guy.

• 2:00:05Joe Rogan?

  Well, if you see these tent communities, you see clearly that you're dealing with drug addiction and mental illness.

• 2:00:10Speaker 01

  But don't believe what you see with your own eyes.

• 2:00:14Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:00:15Speaker 01

  That's the game across the board. Don't believe your common sense. Don't, you know, common sense would dictate all the things we talked about. Autism is increasing. We shouldn't give sex change, we shouldn't sterilize 12 year olds. They all, but don't believe any of that. Don't believe that, you know, people who are homeless need help psychologically. You need some way to treat the addiction. Obviously, there are more intelligent people like Schellenberger that have a plan for this. Despite the fact that he didn't get into the governor's office, which is a shame because he would have done far better than what California is dealing with now. But it's this, it's this constant game and a manipulation of the facts all the time.

• 2:00:56Speaker 01

  And this is where if I could do one thing in my job, like it's, it's teaching people how to. Defer back to their common sense. It's crazy.

• 2:01:09Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, common sense is not that common, right?

• 2:01:12Speaker 01

  No.

• 2:01:13Joe Rogan?

  It's also people are tired because they have a poor diet and they're not eating well. And so they don't have the time to be thinking about this stuff. They don't have the mental energy to like research these things and they're overwhelmed with bills and debt and you know, and and maybe like relationship problems and you know, there's so many problems that people have already to get them to look at external issues that maybe don't affect them personally on a day to day basis. It's very difficult to get people to focus on that. So then they vote with what they think is like their virtue.

• 2:01:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:01:45Joe Rogan?

  You know, blue no matter who, vote Democrat no matter what. Like, that's not helping you. And then when you abandon it and leave, you're called a traitor, you know, you're a traitor to the party. Yeah, you you must get that a lot.

• 2:01:58Speaker 01

  Oh, my God. Well, I went through all of it. But then when you finally decide it doesn't matter anymore, you become immune. So I was, I was, it's interesting. Back in the day when I, you know, my friend used to refer to me in this capacity. She'd say, you know, you're like the fat person's Jesus. This is the early 2000s. You, oh, Gillian Michaels is, you know, doesn't judge, but then she's open arms and she's trying to help people. And then the very same person, with the very same belief system, and the very same strategies in dealing with the problem, became the ultimate enemy.

• 2:02:33Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:02:33Speaker 01

  The ultimate fat shamer, the ultimate science denier.

• 2:02:37Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:02:37Speaker 01

  And it just goes to show you how the narratives shift. It's tough to call me a transphobe because I fall under that acronym umbrella.

• 2:02:45Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:02:46Speaker 01

  Despite the fact that gay is different, very different than trans. I've never really understood the acronym either.

• 2:02:50Joe Rogan?

  It's a trap.

• 2:02:51Speaker 01

  It completely.

• 2:02:52Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:02:52Speaker 01

  But you can't say, like, go ahead. I'm a homophobe. Like, come at me, bro.

• 2:02:58Joe Rogan?

  You're literally gay.

• 2:03:01Speaker 01

  Married to a woman. It's tough to like, you could try. I haven't been hit with a racist card, although I'm waiting for it. I don't know, maybe because my kid is Haitian and she gives me a pass. I have no idea. But you know, you you get certain protections. Simply because you're a card carrying member of the club. But I got hit with everything outside of that, you know, transphobe, not ish, ish, fat shamer and anti-science and ableist and privileged and all of that stuff.

• 2:03:31Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but all that stuff is losing its meaning. You know, the problem is you keep calling people, you call everyone a racist, like it doesn't mean anymore. You're crying wolf so many times and people don't listen anymore. Like a real racist is horrific. You see, you run into a real racist, like, oh my god, that's horrific. But, you know, if you just call everyone a racist, if you go math is racist, like, okay, math racist? Peanut butter and jelly sandwiches are racist, I've seen that. Okay.

• 2:03:59Speaker 01

  Oh, I haven't seen that one.

• 2:04:00Joe Rogan?

  Exercise is racist.

• 2:04:02Speaker 01

  I did see that, alt-right, yes.

• 2:04:04Joe Rogan?

  Wonderful.

• 2:04:04Speaker 01

  Alt-right, MSNBC, alt-right, I liked that. I like that one a lot.

• 2:04:09Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:04:09Speaker 01

  I will tell you, though, I don't think that it is losing as much power as I had hoped, and I reference Elon Musk, and here's why. It's seemingly working. I know a lot of people that think he's an anti-Semite. I'm like, you sure about that?

• 2:04:29Joe Rogan?

  Well, they think he's a Nazi, more than just an anti-Semite, like an actual Nazi.

• 2:04:34Speaker 01

  And these are reasonable people.

• 2:04:36Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and here's the irony, he's on the spectrum. So, this thing, he didn't even realize what he's doing, when he's going like, my heart goes out to you.

• 2:04:44Speaker 01

  But Joe, what about the video, the montage of all the liberals, including AOC, engaging in the same sigail?

• 2:04:53Joe Rogan?

  Tim Walsh, Tim Walsh, I love you all, I love you all. This is like, it's like a thing that people have to stop doing.

• 2:05:01Speaker 01

  But that's, that's-

• 2:05:01Joe Rogan?

  You gotta do it like this. You gotta have two hands, touch your heart, and then open it.

• 2:05:07Speaker 01

  I'm not doing it, I'm not complying.

• 2:05:09Joe Rogan?

  When I was getting in trouble with CNN during the vaccine days, the COVID days, they would use a photograph of me from the UFC weigh-ins, because when I go to the UFC weigh-ins, I say, "Welcome to the weigh-ins, everybody." So they had this photo of me from the side with my, that's the one they used all the time.

• 2:05:27Speaker 01

  No. People buy that shit and they are still buying it and that scares me. And in a argument on Piers Morgan, this is to raise my voice a little bit. I, I was like, well, I don't know. I don't think he's an anti Semite. Number one, he's friends with the Jews. Number two, he hires Jews and number three, he hasn't killed any Jews and they were like-

• 2:05:48Joe Rogan?

  He has a necklace around his neck that he's given to one of the mothers of the hostages. It says, bring them home.

• 2:05:52Speaker 01

  I remember him going after October 7th and talking about the videos that he'd seen. But the guy was like, oh, that's your benchmark? He doesn't kill Jews? And I was like, no, that's yours. You're the one comparing him to Hitler who killed 6 million Jews. So if you're going to draw that comparison, zero, 6 million. So shut the fuck up.

• 2:06:11Joe Rogan?

  It's all dumb. It's, but it's all, it's all a trick because what they're really doing is going after him because he's trying to go after USAID.

• 2:06:19Speaker 01

  I, I see that.

• 2:06:21Joe Rogan?

  Slush fund.

• 2:06:21Speaker 01

  But can I tell you how many reasonable people and I, I cannot-

• 2:06:27Joe Rogan?

  I have friends that I have to argue about it with.

• 2:06:29Speaker 01

  Exact same.

• 2:06:29Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:06:30Speaker 01

  That's when I tell you like, I, I don't know that it's actually losing its power.

• 2:06:34Joe Rogan?

  It is. It's just not losing its power with really fucking dumb people. And you're gonna have a certain percentage of really fucking dumb people and they're either gonna have to catch up or we're gonna have to overwhelm them with a lot of logic.

• 2:06:46Speaker 01

  That.

• 2:06:47Joe Rogan?

  And that takes time and it takes a lot of these kind of conversations and they get out there and they get clipped. And maybe you and I said something here that will be taken out of context and used against you, which is always really fun. That's my favorite. When they just take like a snippet of it. See, told you. She's a this. She's a that.

• 2:07:04Speaker 01

  I know.

• 2:07:05Joe Rogan?

  It's this reductionist thing where they try to define you by a, a string of words. Forget about your whole life.

• 2:07:12Speaker 01

  They did that to Candace Owens.

• 2:07:13Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 2:07:14Speaker 01

  He's, oh, she's disgusting anti Semite. So I listened to her. I listened to her answer all that stuff on her show. And then I, I listened to her debate it with Rabbi Shmuley and I thought, okay. Let's see what a bitch she is. And I listened to everything she said and I checked it all and watched it in context. And then I actually sat with her and I, I was like, all right, I'm gonna open the door.

• 2:07:34Joe Rogan?

  I like Candace a lot, but Candace says a lot of wild shit. It's not accurate, like she thinks dinosaurs are fake.

• 2:07:40Speaker 01

  I, I, I hear you. I get it. But I, I, I, I, I get it.

• 2:07:44Joe Rogan?

  That is like self inflicted. That's a self inflicted wound.

• 2:07:48Speaker 01

  But do you think that she, I'm like, are you a Holocaust denier? No, I'm not a Holocaust denier. And still to this day, she's a Holocaust denier.

• 2:07:56Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's my friend Daryl Cooper, who was on my podcast, you know, because he said hyperbolically that Winston Churchill was one of the main villains of World War II because he started blockades and forced Hitler into action and starved the German people. Like, it's like, what he said was really unfortunate, the way he said it, the way he said it. But he was trying to say that Winston Churchill did some things that if he hadn't done them, maybe World War II wouldn't have gone the way it went. But the problem is when you say that and it gets taken out of context, people say, oh, he's a Holocaust denier and a Nazi sympathizer.

• 2:08:36Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:08:36Joe Rogan?

  But then you listen to his podcast, he's got this like, I think it's like 30 hours called Fear and Loathing in New Jerusalem. And it's the most gut wrenching tale of the persecution of Jews in Eastern Europe. Just the beginning of it. I tell everybody, just listen to the first like 40 minutes of it. It's so heartbreaking. Like, this is not the words of a homophobe, or excuse me, of an anti Semite that would, would say those things.

• 2:09:01Speaker 01

  I, I haven't.

• 2:09:01Joe Rogan?

  But reductionist things that people love to do.

• 2:09:04Speaker 01

  But, but even still, here would be my argument to that. Let's say he was.

• 2:09:11Speaker 01

  If you're inclined to believe that, let's say that was his argument and that Hitler wasn't bad and it was Churchill, then you're an asshole and an idiot.

• 2:09:20Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:09:21Speaker 01

  Then there's no hope for you. This, this gatekeeping of information.

• 2:09:25Joe Rogan?

  But he's neither an asshole or an idiot, and he's being called an asshole and an idiot by people who don't consume his work.

• 2:09:30Speaker 01

  Of course. I'm saying worst case scenario. Because I see this a lot with the gatekeeping of information. And God forbid, you don't fact check everybody on everything, which has been something that I've gotten a bit of, like, well, you nodded your head and you said, I see your point. I'm like, well, sometimes I see their point. And sometimes I don't. No, and I can't fact check everything. And I'll all talk to somebody else who has a differing opinion. But people can think for themselves as well.

• 2:09:54Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. There's just a lot of bad faith actors out there. And there's a lot of people that do that. This taking people out of context and trying to use this reductionist perspective and label people with these pejoratives that are inescapable. Like it's in the racist, homophobic, anti semi, all those, those are inescapable. And once you get hit with those, that's your, that's your, your fucking sticker on your forehead for the rest of your life. And that's what they're trying to do to you because they're trying to silence you and because they want to win. And this is a real problem with human beings when it comes to ideas. Is that like if I believe something and you believe something differently, I don't want to listen to you. I want to beat you, right? I want to overwhelm you with talk.

• 2:10:38Joe Rogan?

  I want to pierce Morgan you into submission. I want to yell at you, not pierce the human, but the show.

• 2:10:43Speaker 01

  I know what you're talking about, yeah.

• 2:10:45Joe Rogan?

  You want to yell at them and, and you want to win. You want to dunk on them. And this is why I don't engage with people on social media. I just think it's the worst way to communicate. And when I see people doing it, I genuinely feel bad for them because I think they're mentally ill. And people are dunking on people constantly on social media. I'm like, well, that's a sign of mental illness. Like you're, there's something wrong with you. You have a, you don't realize that yet? Like this shit's been around for 20 years now and you're still engaging in that kind of behavior on social media? It's stupid.

• 2:11:15Speaker 01

  It gets clicks. That's what I think it is.

• 2:11:18Joe Rogan?

  That's also part of the problem is I get enough attention. I get enough attention so I don't need to like reach out and try to get more, which is like, but by the way, that's what you're supposed to do when you get a lot of attention. You're supposed to rise above, you know, with great power, great responsibility. Supposed to try to be nicer, which I try, that's like one of my core tenets in life. Be as nice as possible. And here's a shocker. I find people are nice to me almost entirely. Like very rarely are people not nice to me because I'm nice to everybody. So if you're nice to everybody, guess what? People are nice to you. And even people I disagree with, like disagree with fundamentally.

• 2:11:57Speaker 01

  But you're listening to them though. That's exactly what you're trying to say.

• 2:12:00Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:12:01Speaker 01

  One of the conversations I've, I've referred to a couple of times is the one I had with Matt Walsh. I don't, I don't, there's no universe where I'm going to change Matt Walsh's mind about gay marriage. But. At least I want to understand them. And I also am hoping that some people who are in the middle of this argument and could be influenced might go my way. And there was, I cannot remember if this was a TED Talk or where this information or this story was put out in the world, but it was the story of a black man who ended up befriending a grand wizard of the Klan and ended-

• 2:12:36Joe Rogan?

  Darrell Davis.

• 2:12:37Speaker 01

  Is that the-

• 2:12:38Joe Rogan?

  He's a friend of ours. He's been on the podcast a couple of times.

• 2:12:40Speaker 01

  Oh, my God, the story, like, I would-

• 2:12:42Joe Rogan?

  Darrell's a musician.

• 2:12:42Speaker 01

  Oh, my God.

• 2:12:43Joe Rogan?

  And he met-

• 2:12:44Speaker 01

  And became the guy's, like, godfather, the guy's kids?

• 2:12:46Joe Rogan?

  Not just one. No, he's got more than a hundred of these KKK guys to give him their robes. Yeah, and convert and change them over.

• 2:12:57Speaker 01

  That's what I want.

• 2:12:58Joe Rogan?

  Just by love, just with love.

• 2:13:00Speaker 01

  That's what I'm hoping. In those conversations, that's power.

• 2:13:04Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, well, Darrell's a really amazing person, a shining example of what's possible. When you just show people, like, he's like, "Man, you're different than all the others." He's like, "Actually, I'm just a human. I just have more melanin in my skin." You know, and you are, unfortunately, you have been trapped by an ideology. You have othered people simply by their looks, you know, and you haven't learned this lesson that we were supposed to be taught by Dr. King in the 1960s, you know, judge a man by the content of their character.

• 2:13:33Speaker 01

  It must have been your show, actually, where I heard it, but it-

• 2:13:36Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:13:36Speaker 01

  It changed-

• 2:13:38Joe Rogan?

  Darrell's amazing.

• 2:13:39Speaker 01

  The way that I approach 99% of my conversations. Because I thought, okay, if I listen with an intent to hear and an intent to understand, and I can expose people to the things they're uncomfortable with in a way where we find common ground, I may not change their mind, but at least you're, in some cases, you hopefully can.

• 2:14:01Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:14:01Speaker 01

  And at least you're modeling.

• 2:14:03Joe Rogan?

  But it takes so much time. You know, it's like- Indiana Jones, when the guy starts throwing the whip and he just pulls the gun out and just shoots him. Like, that's like, I just wanted to shut the fuck up, you know, and that's, that's what a lot of people like, especially today in this like, everybody wants to take Ozempic. You want a quick fix? You don't want to work out for fucking six years to lose 50 pounds? No, I want to just lose 50 pounds in a month, you know, and this is the, the quick fix thing of today's society. And when you're offered this pill that makes you smarter instead of reading books, like, yeah, I'll take that pill. You know, like, this is the argument that I, I've said to people when they always talk about, you know, I, I don't have time for exercise.

• 2:14:44Joe Rogan?

  Like, I'm not interested in my body. Like, I'm, this is stupid. It's vain. It's just not, I'm like, listen.

• 2:14:49Speaker 01

  Huh.

• 2:14:50Joe Rogan?

  If I gave you a pill, just give you a pill, and that pill made you fit and healthy and muscular, you wouldn't take that pill?

• 2:14:56Speaker 01

  Improved your self-confidence.

• 2:14:57Joe Rogan?

  Why would you not want a body that works way better?

• 2:14:59Speaker 01

  Improved your mood, yeah.

• 2:15:01Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, of course you would.

• 2:15:01Speaker 01

  Your sex life would get better, all of those things.

• 2:15:04Joe Rogan?

  Of course you'd take it.

• 2:15:04Speaker 01

  That's a defense mechanism, though. You, you know that.

• 2:15:07Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:15:07Speaker 01

  It's a fear that they would be incapable of following through on what's required. So they defend against it. It's the same shit you see with the people that are overweight and like, I don't care. Or they make fun of their weight and like, they become the funny fat guy. It's, it's a defense mechanism.

• 2:15:23Joe Rogan?

  Oh, I have a lot of friends like that, a lot of comedians. It's like their entire act, like, being fat.

• 2:15:28Speaker 01

  I know.

• 2:15:28Joe Rogan?

  It's a big part of it, yeah.

• 2:15:29Speaker 01

  There was a guy, I, I went to Kill Tony last night and there was a comedian that was up first. And he was 412 pounds and the, the guys were doing what they obviously do. But there was a part of my heart that was splitting.

• 2:15:42Joe Rogan?

  Of course.

• 2:15:43Speaker 01

  Because I was like, deep down, this is, he's hurting, deep down, this fucking guy's hurting, deep down, it's all funny.

• 2:15:47Joe Rogan?

  I know, right? That's the problem.

• 2:15:50Speaker 01

  I was dying, I was dying inside for him.

• 2:15:52Joe Rogan?

  And also, if you're 420 pounds or whatever he is, like, boy, the road to becoming healthy is hundreds of pounds away. And that is so daunting, especially when you, you, you have the pull of addiction.

• 2:16:05Speaker 01

  Yes, that's the big problem.

• 2:16:07Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and then you get eat intuitively, eat intuitively.

• 2:16:10Speaker 01

  Oh, my god, which is impossible, by the way.

• 2:16:12Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:16:13Speaker 01

  Because the food is designed to override your satiety.

• 2:16:17Joe Rogan?

  If I eat intuitively, I'd eat only pizza.

• 2:16:22Joe Rogan?

  I have a diet.

• 2:16:23Speaker 01

  I think some fries.

• 2:16:25Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, pizza, fries and ice cream.

• 2:16:28Speaker 01

  Jesus.

• 2:16:28Joe Rogan?

  And Coca-Cola would be my whole diet.

• 2:16:30Speaker 01

  But the whole, the entire food system, all of the ultra-processed foods is designed to override your body's signaling of satiety. It's fucking impossible.

• 2:16:43Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:16:43Speaker 01

  And then you couple that with the psychological vulnerabilities and it's a powder keg.

• 2:16:48Joe Rogan?

  You sound like an afrozempic.

• 2:16:50Speaker 01

  I am. That's exactly what I am. Oh my god, I'm gonna, I'm gonna get that tattoo, man. Afrozempic dragon believer. Of all the night, I got the sticker, by the way, to my suitcase. Fuck, yeah, I like that Afrozempic.

• 2:17:03Joe Rogan?

  Uh, it's, it's really kooky. It's, it's weird, but the only way out is through conversations. The only way out is to, um, educate people or enlighten people or expose people to other ideas. Like, you're not really gonna educate them, but you will expose them to other ideas. And I think over time, the good ideas will win. It's just, it's been so many years of bad ideas and it's so indoctrinating and it's so difficult. And then also it's your identity. Your identity is this, you know, whatever it is, whether you're Matt Walsh or whether you're a 420-pound trans person, like, your identity is like embedded in whatever you think of yourself as being. And it's very difficult to take wisdom from someone that you think of as the enemy.

• 2:17:48Speaker 01

  That's so true. And breaking that identity, in particular when it works against someone.

• 2:17:53Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:17:54Speaker 01

  So, one of the things that, people can't believe in a reality they haven't experienced.

• 2:17:59Joe Rogan?

  That's true.

• 2:17:59Speaker 01

  And so, one of the ways that I used to utilize fitness was to give them an experience that they didn't think they were capable of. So all of a sudden, you've got the funny fat guy who just ran that mile without stopping, or who just did the push-up on the hands and the feet, or who just did 10 pull-ups in a row, or even two. Yeah, but, but, but once they look at their achievement, it's like, holy shit.

• 2:18:22Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:18:22Speaker 01

  I, I didn't know I was capable of this. And then you shatter that prison of limiting beliefs and you open up an infinity of possibility.

• 2:18:31Joe Rogan?

  You also have to find a tribe. You have to surround yourself with other people that are trying to prove themselves. So if other people around you are trying to improve themselves, then it will encourage you to be a part of that group and you all do it together.

• 2:18:43Speaker 01

  Completely.

• 2:18:44Joe Rogan?

  And then help each other if you fall off the wagon and pick each other up and like reinforce positive. Behavior.

• 2:18:51Speaker 01

  You see all of that with, you know, back in the day, I, I used to get so caught up in the fights about diets and fat diets and fat workouts. And as I've matured, or like to think that I have matured, I don't even engage in that shit anymore. It really doesn't matter what workout you're doing. If you're doing it with a qualified professional, or if it's, if people are showing up for CrossFit because they love CrossFit and they love the community, great. If they're showing up for Pilates, because they love the community and they're showing up for it, great. As long as they're showing up for something.

• 2:19:22Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:19:22Speaker 01

  And the person teaching them, a great CrossFit coach, matters. That, that's a big difference between you herniating three discs and getting into the best shape of your life. So I would simply say, look for a qualified expert.

• 2:19:36Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's a good point.

• 2:19:37Speaker 01

  But, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm beyond the, what's the best diet and what's the best, who gives a fuck? As long as you're, is your, if you're in a positive environment that's getting you to show up for it, day after day after day.

• 2:19:50Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:19:50Speaker 01

  Something's better than nothing.

• 2:19:51Joe Rogan?

  And you're focusing on improving.

• 2:19:53Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:19:53Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:19:54Speaker 01

  And that, that comes with community. For sure, you're absolutely right.

• 2:19:57Joe Rogan?

  That's what people love about CrossFit, is the whole community of people.

• 2:20:00Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 2:20:00Joe Rogan?

  You go there, you're all working out together. I used to love that about yoga class.

• 2:20:03Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:20:03Joe Rogan?

  You go to a bunch of people, I knew them all, like, hey, what's up? You know? You know, but you don't talk until after it's over.

• 2:20:10Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:20:11Joe Rogan?

  It's one of those things, like, they very, really discourage talking before, but like, you're all sweating together, like, you're going through it together. There's no other way, you know? And then you get out the other end, you're like, wow, I wouldn't have done that by myself. I would have quit at like 40 minutes, but I did the whole 90 minutes and now I feel better. And then the rest of the day is easy.

• 2:20:29Speaker 01

  That's why I think community is such an integral part of treating addiction.

• 2:20:33Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:20:34Speaker 01

  Because you, you have that supportive group to keep you accountable, to show up, to feel like you're a part of something, and it, we've seen it work for you and work against you.

• 2:20:43Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:20:43Speaker 01

  It's like, again, it, that's.

• 2:20:45Joe Rogan?

  It's also an integral part for an evil army, unfortunately.

• 2:20:48Speaker 01

  I know.

• 2:20:51Joe Rogan?

  You have to believe that you have to

• 2:20:54Joe Rogan?

  kill these heretics.

• 2:20:56Speaker 01

  Beginning, you know, how do we tip things over?

• 2:21:00Joe Rogan?

  You have to make your side be more attractive. You have to make your side kinder and more empathetic and also more admirable.

• 2:21:08Speaker 01

  Yes, you're right. The rewards have to be there and admirable is one.

• 2:21:12Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:21:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:21:14Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you have to like wish you had those characteristics and go, why don't I? Oh, maybe I can, you know, and just also realize you're not who you used to be. Okay, if you were a fat alcoholic gambling addict, you don't have to stay that way forever. You just, you don't have to. You're not that, you're a human being. You are trapped with behavior and ideas that were not self-serving. They're not good for people around you. You probably stole things to feed your addictions and you feel you have terrible self-worth and terrible self-image, but that's not you. That's who you have been. You are who you are right now. So if you choose right now to be positive from here on out and you're gonna have some mistakes and fuck up along the way, but find a group.

• 2:21:59Joe Rogan?

  This is why Alcoholics Anonymous is so important.

• 2:22:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:22:02Joe Rogan?

  You get around these people and you all agree. They're all like, and you have sponsors and you help each other. Like this is the whole idea of community. We are not solitary individuals. We're just not. We are a collective organism experiencing itself in individual ways.

• 2:22:20Speaker 01

  I agree with you. I do. I just, I want, I sometimes see evil winning out more often than not.

• 2:22:29Joe Rogan?

  Well, because that's what's in the news and that's also what's in your algorithm, you know, and that's why you have to stay off social media.

• 2:22:34Speaker 01

  You're...

• 2:22:36Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. I feel so much better. I've been off social media like almost entirely for like a few, wow, like...

• 2:22:46Joe Rogan?

  Really weaned off about two weeks ago. I really followed my wife's footsteps because like she just got off. And she's like, I feel so much better. I'm like, damn, that's crazy. And so I'm like, let me try it. And so I tried it for a day. I was like, wow, I feel so much better after this day. And then I tried a couple of days and then I'm like, oh, it's real. Like there's, you know, um, Sugar Sean O'Malley, UFC champion. He said, he goes, I get a low level anxiety when I'm scrolling through social media. I'm like, right. What is that? Like, what is that? But that shit's real. It's also you realize like you're just distracting yourself with this stupidity.

• 2:23:20Speaker 01

  That's for

• 2:23:22Joe Rogan?

  Don't.

• 2:23:22Speaker 01

  Frickin' sure.

• 2:23:23Joe Rogan?

  But when you don't do that, your mind feels better. It really does feel better. So I will occasionally, like if I'm on the toilet, I'll like scroll through Twitter, find out what is everybody mad at? And then I'll put it away, you know, and then sometimes I'll go days without looking at it at all. And then sometimes like, hey, like I got a text the other day like, hey, man, are you okay? I go, well, what? And they're like, oh, people are mad at you on Twitter. I'm like, okay. That's not the real world, bro. I don't even know what they're mad at. Like, no, don't reach. Like a friend of mine sent me something that people were, I go, don't send me that shit. I'm not looking at it. I don't care.

• 2:23:56Speaker 01

  Aren't you immune to that by now though? You have been forged in fire. Fuck's sake. What are they going to say to you at this point that you're even going to care about?

• 2:24:05Joe Rogan?

  Well, the thing is it's not me, it's them. They think that I'm upset at this thing. Because they would be upset at this thing because they don't get attacked. Right? So like my sister used to send me things like that. I'm like, don't send me that shit. You know, I don't care. Like, you know.

• 2:24:18Speaker 01

  I know my wife used to do that for a little while because she would worry and want me to kind of like temper my behavior.

• 2:24:24Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:24:25Speaker 01

  My business partner would do the same thing. Like, oh, I really don't know. Could you just stay in, could you stay in the pocket here on the fitness stuff? But I found that the more I would lean into that, it didn't matter how many attacks would come my way. Because you would resonate with the people that got it. And that ended up working better for me personally and professionally. But you're right, it is, it is their concern of how they would feel if people called them those things or came for them with the pitchforks and torches.

• 2:24:55Joe Rogan?

  And by the way, the worst thing you could do is fight back, which is really crazy. The worst thing you can do is like interact with people that are attacking you.

• 2:25:02Speaker 01

  Of course.

• 2:25:03Joe Rogan?

  Which is really kind of, but that's everyone's instinct. Everyone's instinct is to go, well, I'll tell you what I think now.

• 2:25:07Speaker 01

  You get caught up in it?

• 2:25:10Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you get caught up in it.

• 2:25:11Speaker 01

  It's ridiculous. The only time I find myself doing that these days, and I'm going to stop it, is when my son will challenge me on something and then, okay, my mother is like, we're debating something. She's like, honey, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're litigating this with a 13-year-old.

• 2:25:25Joe Rogan?

  Uh.

• 2:25:26Speaker 01

  And I was like, yeah, okay. And I, and you know why? Because I still care what my kids think about me.

• 2:25:32Joe Rogan?

  Sure.

• 2:25:33Speaker 01

  Instead of, but the rest of the world, I don't give a fuck.

• 2:25:35Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:25:36Speaker 01

  I don't give a fuck.

• 2:25:37Joe Rogan?

  Well, you do, but also you can't control what people think.

• 2:25:40Speaker 01

  Right. Exactly.

• 2:25:42Joe Rogan?

  The only thing you could do is be undeniable.

• 2:25:44Speaker 01

  That's so well said.

• 2:25:47Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:25:48Speaker 01

  That is so well said.

• 2:25:49Joe Rogan?

  That's all you have. And so what happens with haters is they challenge you to become more undeniable. And so that's good. That's what their job is.

• 2:25:56Speaker 01

  They, they make you steal man your arguments.

• 2:25:57Joe Rogan?

  All the losers of the world, they challenge you to become a bigger winner.

• 2:26:01Speaker 01

  They really do.

• 2:26:02Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:26:03Speaker 01

  I've learned how, especially in the health space, when I would be active in a conversation about fitness or nutrition or what have you, you learn how to bulletproof yourself in that conversation.

• 2:26:15Joe Rogan?

  Right. Because people will fight so hard.

• 2:26:18Speaker 01

  Oh, man.

• 2:26:19Joe Rogan?

  To keep their bad habits.

• 2:26:20Speaker 01

  God, it, it is insane.

• 2:26:22Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:26:23Speaker 01

  And there's also so much infighting in every industry, which, which bums me out. And that's when I, I just was like, what am I doing?

• 2:26:28Joe Rogan?

  That's an attention thing, right? They're upset that you're getting the attention that they think they deserve. Like, she doesn't even know what the fuck she's talking about. Like, la, la, la, la.

• 2:26:36Speaker 01

  But you know what's...

• 2:26:37Joe Rogan?

  You see a lot of that in the health space.

• 2:26:38Speaker 01

  You do, and I hate it. And it's, it's super disappointing because we can share ideas and we can, as, as you said, admit when we're wrong and, and learn and grow and, and what have you. But the real enemy is not another frigging doctor. Or another PhD with a different opinion.

• 2:26:56Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:26:57Speaker 01

  Yet we've seen who the real enemy is. And it's it's big pharma when it's got bad intentions, or big food with bad intentions, or big ag. It's not gonna be like the guy who has a different opinion on cholesterol, for fuck's sake.

• 2:27:11Joe Rogan?

  It's not even that. It's just that that guy with a different opinion on cholesterol is getting a lot of attention. And then these people are comparing them. They're comparing themselves to that person. Why don't I get this certain attention? And the way to get the attention is to dunk on that person, to say awful things.

• 2:27:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:27:26Joe Rogan?

  But then people dunk on you, and then now you're now your life is conflict. Okay, good job.

• 2:27:32Speaker 01

  When they when they do, I I like to sit down and see if there's truth there, like you said.

• 2:27:38Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:27:38Speaker 01

  You know, I I've I've not been immune to some of Lain Norton's assaults. And you know what? I we sat down and and I was like, listen, Lain, the things you're going after me on are not from me. It's from this PhD, that PhD, this PhD, and the American Medical Association. And had him on my podcast, and by the time we were done, he won me over. I I was like, I I believe you. I think you're right. I'm changing my position on this. You know, but sometimes you're right. It's it's because someone is getting attention or there's envy there. And I would simply say you can intuit when a criticism might be legitimate. And when you're seeing it over and over and over again, and it's a similar thing, there's something to look at there. But outside of that, when you know it's bullshit.

• 2:28:23Joe Rogan?

  There's also the problem with bots.

• 2:28:25Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. Oh, my God.

• 2:28:27Joe Rogan?

  Vast majority of Twitter might be bots.

• 2:28:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:28:30Joe Rogan?

  You know, an FBI analyst that used to he he used to analyze big data sets. He said, he looked at Twitter and he said it might be about 80% bots.

• 2:28:40Speaker 01

  Kara Swisher said that to me.

• 2:28:42Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:28:42Speaker 01

  I was blown away. She was she was, I mean, and she would know. And she was showing me stuff, bot farms and shit all along the wall. It's. Yeah, and then you're just engaging with.

• 2:28:55Joe Rogan?

  Uh huh. And they they shape narratives and.

• 2:28:58Speaker 01

  It's crazy.

• 2:28:59Joe Rogan?

  Rogue states and different people use it. And I'm I'm sure like. There's publicity firms that use it, I'm sure. I mean, I don't know.

• 2:29:08Speaker 01

  I don't either, but without question.

• 2:29:09Joe Rogan?

  You could use it with AI, you know, you could, you could easily have one computer that would run many, many accounts. And you could program it to have variations on a theme, but you see it sometimes when like, there's a lot of social media influencers that get co-opted. And one of the things that you see is a very similar message, you know, and they use very similar phrasing, you know, sharp as attack was one of them. And you, you saw that over and over again with Biden, like sharp as attack, sharp as attack.

• 2:29:40Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. Oh, my gosh.

• 2:29:41Joe Rogan?

  So they were getting influenced and they were getting paid.

• 2:29:44Speaker 01

  Yes. You know who, did you ever see that? I'm sure, of course you would have, but I remember when I was talking to Senator Johnson and he was exposing me to the trusted news initiative. And this is the whole, the newscasters that have the exact same script and say the exact same thing.

• 2:30:00Joe Rogan?

  It's Orwellian.

• 2:30:00Speaker 01

  And it, it, it, but in frigging, in broad daylight.

• 2:30:06Joe Rogan?

  Yep.

• 2:30:07Speaker 01

  There's, guys, we have clips of all of you.

• 2:30:10Joe Rogan?

  Saying the exact same thing.

• 2:30:12Speaker 01

  Saying the exact same thing. It's so clear. It's a narrative. And when he told me, he was, God, this was, this blew my mind. He went pre-COVID to, he was talking about this event at the Milken Institute where Fauci and I, oh my God, I'm gonna screw this up, but I think it's this guy Rick Bright, forgive me because this may be wrong, but the, the group of people, definitely Fauci, were talking about what it would take to get a global vaccine program. Fauci says probably going to take a pandemic and this is like five months before COVID. Not that, you know, just to put my tin hat on and roll myself in tinfoil and jump all the way down the rabbit hole. But then Avril Haines said, well, what are we going to do about misinformation at this

• 2:30:57Speaker 01

  event that she put on shortly after that? And he said, that's where they came up with the trusted news initiative, right in time.

• 2:31:04Joe Rogan?

  Well, not only that, they came up with a new term and that term is malinformation.

• 2:31:09Speaker 01

  Ah.

• 2:31:10Joe Rogan?

  Do you know what malinformation is?

• 2:31:11Speaker 01

  I don't.

• 2:31:12Joe Rogan?

  Malinformation is true information.

• 2:31:14Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 2:31:14Joe Rogan?

  That might do harm.

• 2:31:16Speaker 01

  Did not know this.

• 2:31:17Joe Rogan?

  So there's misinformation, disinformation and malinformation.

• 2:31:22Speaker 01

  I have not heard that.

• 2:31:23Joe Rogan?

  Malinformation was something they were trying to promote during the Biden administration as being dangerous and it's essentially the truth.

• 2:31:30Speaker 01

  I knew the, we've got to reconsider the First Amendment.

• 2:31:34Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:31:35Speaker 01

  I've seen all those clips. That is some scary shit. It's like Senator Kerry, Bill Gates, Hillary Clinton, and do we criminalize people who are promoting this misinformation? But I did not hear malin-

• 2:31:48Joe Rogan?

  Did you ever see the CEO of NPR doing a TED Talk saying that sometimes the truth gets in the way of getting things done?

• 2:31:55Speaker 01

  Oh, God, no. But I heard, I've heard them all say that. And said it on, oh, my God.

• 2:32:02Joe Rogan?

  It's infantilization, infantilization of the public because they're too stupid to handle the truth. They're dumber than you. You, you're the purveyor of information and you need to give them the information that gets things done. And sometimes you have to lie to them. Like vaccines are safe and effective.

• 2:32:21Speaker 01

  You, oh, my God, what did you post? I think it was the cover of The New Yorker, but said something about doing away with the First Amendment.

• 2:32:28Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:32:29Speaker 01

  And I-

• 2:32:29Joe Rogan?

  Wonderful idea.

• 2:32:34Speaker 01

  It's like, wait, what the fuck are you talking about?

• 2:32:37Joe Rogan?

  Well, the real-

• 2:32:37Speaker 01

  It's not like it's number 14, by the way. Or number 5 is a number 1. The First Amendment.

• 2:32:46Joe Rogan?

  It's in the way. It's in the way.

• 2:32:48Speaker 01

  That, to me, when you're having this debate about Kamala versus Trump, I'm like, how do you guys have this selective outrage about what's flipping your shit?

• 2:33:05Speaker 01

  I want due process for Kilmar Brago Garcia, who's, you know, probably beats his wife and is a suspect. I get it. I wanted to-

• 2:33:12Joe Rogan?

  Seems like he's got MS-13 tattooed on his knuckles.

• 2:33:15Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, come on. And there was a deportation order. Just say it like, so you can't-

• 2:33:20Joe Rogan?

  You see the photographs that his wife puts out where she covers his knuckles in every picture?

• 2:33:24Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:33:24Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:33:25Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:33:26Joe Rogan?

  Hilarious.

• 2:33:26Speaker 01

  I mean-

• 2:33:27Joe Rogan?

  So I was saying, oh, my God, they deported a Maryland man and a father because that's what I was reading in the news.

• 2:33:32Speaker 01

  Same.

• 2:33:32Joe Rogan?

  And then you get into it and you're like, oh, wait a minute. Oh, hold on. And then they, they released the dash cam footage, the, the police footage of when they arrested him. Not dash cam, you know, whatever the cops are wearing.

• 2:33:44Speaker 01

  I know what you're talking about. I thought the exact same thing.

• 2:33:48Joe Rogan?

  It's crazy, but it's just like- You can't, you can't just go on narratives because these narratives are just designed to make the Trump administration look like monsters.

• 2:33:57Speaker 01

  I, I was giving an interview to this woman from the New York Times and she's like, but don't you see this? And I was like, I do see it and I don't understand it and I wish it would be different, but, you know, but then you get into the lesser evils. I wrote her back and I was like, I don't agree with my previous position based on the current information available to me now.

• 2:34:15Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it seems like he was a gang member. But then there was that gay hairdresser that like seems like he just got roped up.

• 2:34:21Speaker 01

  I know. And, and what I have learned so far, because I've really been trying to get to the bottom of that one, because I don't understand why the left isn't leaning on that one. The other guy like beats his wife, suspected trafficker, like you want to be outraged. Like this guy is a gay hairdresser. I guess he committed, I was listening to Tim Poole talk about this, immigration fraud. So, listen, that guy's a tough one.

• 2:34:44Joe Rogan?

  Okay, but that doesn't, he doesn't belong in an El Salvador prison.

• 2:34:46Speaker 01

  I agree with you completely.

• 2:34:48Joe Rogan?

  Also, he's not even from El Salvador, which is really crazy.

• 2:34:51Speaker 01

  Now, okay, hold on. Here would be the argument there. I, I think if I'm understanding it correctly is that if somebody can be deported, but they are withheld because of asylum, correct me if I'm wrong here, because they worry going back to their home country is dangerous or deadly, like Kilmer Abrego Garcia.

• 2:35:13Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:35:14Speaker 01

  Because he's not a gang member, but he's afraid of being killed by other gangs that aren't MS-13. You caught that one, right?

• 2:35:19Joe Rogan?

  Oh, boy.

• 2:35:20Speaker 01

  It's like, I can't go home because the other gangs will kill me, but I'm not a gang member. Nevertheless, you, there's a deportation order on him, so I believe that they can just send him to a third country and that's not illegal. That's something I heard.

• 2:35:34Joe Rogan?

  Okay, but just violating immigration fraud when you're a gay hairdresser. You don't throw him in a fucking concentration camp.

• 2:35:41Speaker 01

  You could not be more right about that. But tell me then, why is the left not hanging there? Freaking, why is he not the poster child, that guy?

• 2:35:49Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:35:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:35:50Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's his knuckles.

• 2:35:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:35:51Speaker 03

  Look, people don't agree that that's what that means.

• 2:35:53Joe Rogan?

  Oh dude, I've talked to a guy who's a gang expert.

• 2:35:58Speaker 01

  Two separate courts agreed.

• 2:36:00Joe Rogan?

  I talked to a guy who's a gang expert who explained it to me. He's like, yeah, this is how it works.

• 2:36:04Speaker 01

  There was also an informant who confirmed that he was...

• 2:36:06Joe Rogan?

  Well, there's different versions of MS-13, but that's what it means. Like marijuana, smiley face, Jesus, and, and then the skull.

• 2:36:14Speaker 03

  I don't, I just, I'm just saying when I've looked online.

• 2:36:18Speaker 01

  How is this the last poster child?

• 2:36:19Joe Rogan?

  Okay, you can look online, but I mean, I talked to a gang expert that told me, that was explaining to me. And there's a bunch of different versions of gang tattoos.

• 2:36:27Speaker 01

  There's two courts that determined he was an MS-13 gang member. The cops had an informant that was an extremely reliable source that said, "He is MS-13." The guy, the wife was like, "He beats me," and then withdrew, I guess, but had filed a report.

• 2:36:45Joe Rogan?

  Had a protection order in 2021.

• 2:36:47Speaker 01

  Yes, the cops pulled the guy over with eight guys in the car, going like from Texas to Maryland, I think, or from Texas, Maryland to Texas. No luggage, no tools, and suspected him of trafficking. I mean, and again, I will simply say, if you're, didn't apply for a son.

• 2:37:02Joe Rogan?

  Why are they hanging their hat on this one and not the gay hairdresser?

• 2:37:05Speaker 01

  I'm asking you that. Would that be your sacrificial lamb?

• 2:37:09Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, because I heard Glenn Greenwald talk about the gay hairdresser, and that one seems the most compelling.

• 2:37:14Speaker 01

  I agree completely.

• 2:37:15Joe Rogan?

  But there's no logic in this world anymore. It's all kooky. Like, whatever gets traction, you know? Maybe it's because he's got kids. "Oh, he's a father, Maryland father." You know, like, that's what it is. Like, I keep saying wrongly deported Maryland father. Like, what, wrongly, why? Tell me why, what's wrong about it?

• 2:37:33Speaker 01

  He had a deportation order, 100%, and then said, "I am worried that the other gangs will kill me." And so that's when they withheld the deportation order. But he can be deported to another country legally. That's the part that, if he's not a gang member, why is he worried about being killed by other gangs? I would just, like, this is a common sense piece that we... I don't know. I'd hang my hat on the, on the gay hairdresser guy.

• 2:38:03Joe Rogan?

  It's kooky.

• 2:38:03Speaker 01

  I agree with you. I don't know.

• 2:38:05Joe Rogan?

  It's also like, imagine, you know... Inheriting this problem, like you've had open borders for four years and they've let thousands and thousands of potential criminals in here, if not millions. They've let millions of people, who knows how many of these people are suspected terrorists, it's not just one, it's not zero. Okay, so what's the number? I don't know. How many of them are gang members? Is it zero? No, it's not zero. So there's, they let in gang members, okay. How many of them in the cartel? It's not zero. Okay, well what the fuck do you do? What do you do if you want to clean up this mess that has been en masse for four years?

• 2:38:44Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 2:38:45Joe Rogan?

  Flooded, open borders, not just open borders, but like busing them in, flying them in, giving them debit cards, giving them phones.

• 2:38:55Speaker 01

  Oh my god, interest-free loans in California?

• 2:38:58Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:38:58Speaker 01

  Loopholes that Gavin Newsom has created to give them healthcare.

• 2:39:01Joe Rogan?

  Billions of dollars in healthcare.

• 2:39:02Speaker 01

  My friggin' 35-year-old brother can't get a home loan and can't get healthcare, but he's taxed all, like this is-

• 2:39:09Joe Rogan?

  He needs to change his name in Mexico and walk across the border.

• 2:39:11Speaker 01

  I told him a couple of times. I was like, Greg, you know, burn the passport, babe, this'll work, you know? He's half Latin, he's my half-brother, he could get away with it, he looks the part. It is, it is bananas.

• 2:39:24Joe Rogan?

  But it's all a political ploy, and the idea they're not doing it to get votes is crazy, because that's what they're doing. There's a reason why the vast majority of them get moved to swing states, like they're doing it on purpose.

• 2:39:36Speaker 01

  I, okay.

• 2:39:37Joe Rogan?

  And Elon has been talking about this, and it's one of the other reasons why they call him a Nazi.

• 2:39:41Speaker 01

  I've, I've had this conversation with intelligent people, and they're like, well there's no evidence that they're voting. Okay, but, but here, if we were to game this all the way out, in, in, if I was to hit Elon's points that I believe I understand, first of all, I think they can vote in some states in local elections.

• 2:39:58Joe Rogan?

  Yes, in New York.

• 2:40:00Speaker 01

  And Karen Bass, Karen Bass becomes Gavin Newsom, becomes, God forbid, the President of the United States. So there's a reason we've got this whole grassroots thing going on, I would imagine. And then I'm told that when they sign up for benefits, they- Potentially can sign them up to, reach out to them to vote. That could be conspiracy theory, though. Very much so. I'm talking out of my ass. I don't know.

• 2:40:19Joe Rogan?

  Right, but it's not a conspiracy that they're giving them social security numbers.

• 2:40:23Speaker 01

  Exact, oh, did not know that.

• 2:40:25Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, because if you, this is, there's a woman who was explaining when she was working for the social security office, what they would have her do. So with, they would have them get permanent disability. And the way they get permanent disability is just to have to say you have a back problem. So if you have a back problem, then you have permanent disability. And if you get permanent disability, then they start labeling them as a client. If you label them as a client, then they get money forever. And so if then, you have people like Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi and all these people saying, we need to give these people a road to citizenship. Okay, well, then you potentially have millions and millions of people. Now, if the Democrats are in charge, they can change the rules

• 2:41:08Joe Rogan?

  and make it so that these people have a road to citizenship. Then, they can vote on elections. So now, you've imported millions of people that are gonna vote for sure for the people who gave them the money, not for the people who hired Tom Holman to kick everybody out.

• 2:41:22Speaker 01

  Here's another question. Why are you not requiring identification to vote?

• 2:41:26Joe Rogan?

  Because it's racist.

• 2:41:27Speaker 01

  Oh, can you imagine?

• 2:41:29Joe Rogan?

  Well, not only are you not requiring it, in California, you're not allowed to show it. It is illegal to show your identification when you vote.

• 2:41:36Speaker 01

  That's just...

• 2:41:37Joe Rogan?

  There's only one reason why you would do that. It's because you want fraud.

• 2:41:40Speaker 01

  It, well, it would be, exactly. When I ask people who are on the other side, I'm like, game this out for me. Steal man this argument. What is the logic?

• 2:41:49Joe Rogan?

  You see Kathy Hochul's logic about that?

• 2:41:51Speaker 01

  No.

• 2:41:51Joe Rogan?

  A lot of these black kids, they don't even know what a computer is.

• 2:41:54Speaker 01

  Oh, I have seen that. Oh, my God. And I saw the black guy making fun of her.

• 2:41:57Joe Rogan?

  Yes. They're just like running around the computer. Like, what is this?

• 2:42:00Speaker 01

  Oh, my God. Which is the most racist thing that you could possibly say.

• 2:42:06Joe Rogan?

  By the way, every fucking kid has a computer. They all have phones.

• 2:42:10Speaker 01

  Did you see that video? I think it came out of PragerU, where they were saying like, well, you know, black people don't, they, it was like, they don't have access to ID and they can't figure it, same thing. It's the most... Disgustingly racist.

• 2:42:23Joe Rogan?

  You're telling me that...

• 2:42:24Speaker 01

  You can say!

• 2:42:24Joe Rogan?

  What about poor white people that live in West Virginia?

• 2:42:27Speaker 01

  It's so gross.

• 2:42:28Joe Rogan?

  Dirt poor.

• 2:42:29Speaker 01

  Staggeringly gross.

• 2:42:30Joe Rogan?

  It's crazy.

• 2:42:32Speaker 01

  Or, okay, how about this one? I've also been told that the more people you have, in a census, it doesn't matter if they're legal citizens, to get more representation.

• 2:42:40Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you get more seats.

• 2:42:41Speaker 01

  Well, then, effectively, you can make a president a lame duck if you've got...

• 2:42:44Joe Rogan?

  Exactly. That's why California's losing seats. Because people are escaping.

• 2:42:50Speaker 01

  escaping is a perfect word.

• 2:42:51Joe Rogan?

  It's escaping.

• 2:42:52Speaker 01

  I go on record as saying I am pro-legal immigration.

• 2:42:56Joe Rogan?

  Well, I'm the grandchild of immigrants. My whole family came from Italy and Ireland.

• 2:43:01Speaker 01

  Unless you're a Native American. And when you appreciate the ways in which legal immigration enriches a community, stimulates the economy, and you can control the flow, and as Gad Saad likes to explain, they support their host community when they're brought in legally. But when it's illegal, it overwhelms the infrastructure. You bring in criminals. You don't know who's here.

• 2:43:27Joe Rogan?

  Suicidal empathy.

• 2:43:29Speaker 01

  Brilliant.

• 2:43:30Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:43:30Speaker 01

  He's such a genius. He's an app... Thanks to you, I know of him.

• 2:43:34Joe Rogan?

  Gad's the best.

• 2:43:34Speaker 01

  For many years now. And I mean, he's an absolute genius.

• 2:43:37Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:43:38Speaker 01

  He articulates it like no one else.

• 2:43:39Joe Rogan?

  And he's, you know, seeing the rise of antisemitism in Montreal right now, at a staggering rate.

• 2:43:46Speaker 01

  I have to admit that I...

• 2:43:48Joe Rogan?

  He's a guy I escaped lemur on for the same reasons.

• 2:43:50Speaker 01

  I do tend to lean... Dave Smith, after the show you did the other day, I reached out to him and I was like, "All right, I gotta tell ya, I've always leaned more pro-Israel." And you opened my mind to a few things, and I...

• 2:44:06Joe Rogan?

  Don't become a monster to fight monsters.

• 2:44:08Speaker 01

  I won't, an antisemite.

• 2:44:09Joe Rogan?

  That's what it is. But that's the thing. It's like, the horrors... That you're you're seeing in Gaza, it's like, okay, you're you're fighting Hamas. Hamas are monsters. That's right. Yeah.

• 2:44:20Speaker 01

  But like, you didn't let aid into the country.

• 2:44:23Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, even worse.

• 2:44:24Speaker 01

  I didn't even know that.

• 2:44:25Joe Rogan?

  They killed aid workers.

• 2:44:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, uh, see, yeah.

• 2:44:27Joe Rogan?

  It gets scary.

• 2:44:28Speaker 01

  That's when I.

• 2:44:28Joe Rogan?

  It gets really scary when, you know, you believe that someone's helping the enemy, so they become the enemy.

• 2:44:34Speaker 01

  And it's not that you don't like Jews, but like, you know, I'll preface by saying, my grandmother ran from the friggin Nazis. And according to my 23andMe, 30 something percent Jewish. However, it it's it, I don't necessarily like Netanyahu, and I don't agree with a lot of the ways he's handled it. But it doesn't mean I don't understand what happened. I'm not appalled. I'm not disgusted. I I I'm, I personally think that kid Mahmoud Khalil should get the fuck out of here. Personally, I'm sorry. Like, I, I, the kid, I I could get into that one, too. Like, I I see all of that, and I I lean more towards the Israel.

• 2:45:12Joe Rogan?

  Well, I completely understand how they could look at things the way they are. They're surrounded.

• 2:45:16Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:45:16Joe Rogan?

  They're surrounded by Arab states.

• 2:45:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:45:18Joe Rogan?

  And, you know, I mean, if you have been attacked relentlessly since the beginning of, you know, whatever, 1948.

• 2:45:25Speaker 01

  If it's in the charter, you know, kill all Jews. I mean, that's, you know.

• 2:45:29Joe Rogan?

  That's not good. That's not good.

• 2:45:30Speaker 01

  I don't know, you know, ugh.

• 2:45:32Joe Rogan?

  But then you see, like, trans people from Palestine, like, hey.

• 2:45:38Joe Rogan?

  Like, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey. Do you fucking know what they would do to you? Like, oh, my god.

• 2:45:46Speaker 01

  I haven't been there, bud. Yeah. Jeez.

• 2:45:50Joe Rogan?

  It's complicated, right? The world is a very complicated thing.

• 2:45:53Speaker 01

  It's a nuanced conversation as well. I gotta tell you, I was riveted by that debate. And both of them made excellent points. I learned a ton. And I changed my mind on some things. Like, I I friggin loved it. I thought they both, I'm sorry, at the end of the day, I thought they both made great points.

• 2:46:12Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:46:12Speaker 01

  I really did.

• 2:46:13Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, for sure. I just wish that Douglas didn't misrepresent certain people.

• 2:46:16Speaker 01

  I understand that.

• 2:46:17Joe Rogan?

  Like Darrell.

• 2:46:18Speaker 01

  Like the Darrell gentleman. I know.

• 2:46:19Joe Rogan?

  The Darrell thing's crazy.

• 2:46:20Speaker 01

  I didn't, I actually never saw that show with him, so I. I wasn't able to fully comprehend the accusations. And simply thought like you can't gatekeep information and people are, if somebody's going to believe that if this was in fact the truth, right? And he was this guy that was saying Hitler was innocent and, or not innocent, but the lesser evil with regard to Churchill versus Hitler.

• 2:46:41Joe Rogan?

  He definitely wasn't saying that. But what he was really saying that apparently historians also agree with is that Hitler kind of hid his antisemitism early on. And that early on during his rise, he would keep it confined, like the really rampant antisemitism, he'd keep it confined to these like smaller meetings.

• 2:47:00Speaker 01

  I didn't know that.

• 2:47:01Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it was like.

• 2:47:02Speaker 01

  He's like, he's Jewish, isn't he?

• 2:47:03Joe Rogan?

  He's trying.

• 2:47:03Speaker 01

  He was a Jew, wasn't he?

• 2:47:05Joe Rogan?

  Who?

• 2:47:05Speaker 01

  I think Hitler was a Jew.

• 2:47:07Joe Rogan?

  What?

• 2:47:07Speaker 01

  Jamie, will you check that?

• 2:47:08Joe Rogan?

  Hitler was a Jew?

• 2:47:09Speaker 01

  Hold on, I think so. I think he had some Jewish blood. Check it real quick, will ya?

• 2:47:14Speaker 01

  I remember hearing some.

• 2:47:14Joe Rogan?

  That sounds crazy.

• 2:47:15Speaker 01

  I remember hearing something like this.

• 2:47:16Joe Rogan?

  Was also like, you believe in the alien, Aryan race, well blond hair, blue eye, hey, bro, that's not you.

• 2:47:20Speaker 01

  That's not it. Hold on, I feel like there was some, hold on. Oh, is it bullshit?

• 2:47:24Joe Rogan?

  No, he was not Jewish.

• 2:47:25Speaker 01

  Oh, okay.

• 2:47:26Joe Rogan?

  While rumors and conspiracy theories have circulated suggesting a Jewish grandfather, a Jewish ancestry, these claims are not supported by any historical evidence and are widely dismissed by historians.

• 2:47:35Speaker 01

  Oh, Jesus. Alright, I shit the bed on that one. I shit the bed on that one.

• 2:47:38Joe Rogan?

  It's really fascinating because he is the, one of the worst figures in history. Like the, everybody other than really complete psychopaths agree with that.

• 2:47:52Speaker 01

  Right, that's what I'm saying.

• 2:47:52Joe Rogan?

  One of the worst figures in human history.

• 2:47:54Speaker 01

  If you can't disseminate that bit of information, because let's say, again, hypothetically, this gentleman Daryl was trying to make that point, then you're an idiot. I, like, if you can't determine, or, you know, there are skinheads and KKK that are gonna tell you the same thing. If you can't determine that that person's fucked up, you're an idiot.

• 2:48:16Joe Rogan?

  That's, that's not really the argument, though. It's like, no one's really saying that.

• 2:48:20Speaker 01

  No, I know. I'm trying to, I'm suggesting that if, the worst case scenario was that. But I, I appreciate what you're saying, that wasn't his point. And, you know, I haven't done any, I have not done any homework on it.

• 2:48:32Joe Rogan?

  He tries to. Look at things from everybody's view. He tries like, imagine you're this person. Imagine you're a German citizen. And you've just gotten through World War One and the whole world hates you like. Imagine this and then the drug thing is a big part of World War Two. It's a giant part of it, like the fucking whole army was on meth. That is so crazy. That is so fucking crazy. Really, you should read Blitz. It's really fascinating because they had like a prescribe, like a over the counter meth that you could buy. What was called?

• 2:49:07Speaker 01

  Oh, yes, the candy thing.

• 2:49:09Joe Rogan?

  Was it called? Purvatin, purvatin.

• 2:49:11Speaker 01

  Yes, I remember seeing that on your show.

• 2:49:13Joe Rogan?

  It's nuts.

• 2:49:14Speaker 01

  And it was like a little candy tin.

• 2:49:15Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, they were all eating meth.

• 2:49:19Joe Rogan?

  Super productive.

• 2:49:20Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 2:49:21Joe Rogan?

  That's why they have such great engineers, they're like, huh, they're fucking dialed in. You know?

• 2:49:26Speaker 01

  This is, this is true. I, I, this is, you make, yeah, okay. Oh, god damn. I, oh, that's bright. I take, a lot of dark spots here, I.

• 2:49:37Joe Rogan?

  There's a lot of darkness in human history, a lot of it, a lot of evil. A lot of horrible consequences and a lot of lessons that we really learned, but then unlearned. And that's what people are terrified of with this like Hitler apologist perspective like. Don't unlearn this one huge fucking lesson that, you know, look, a guy like Hitler can exist. They can rise to power and become monsters and destroy countless lives. Like, i- it's impossible to really quantify the amount of damage that guy did. Don't unlearn that and I get that, I get that, but don't also label someone as someone who didn't learn that when they, they're, they're talking about it.

• 2:50:20Joe Rogan?

  Openly discussing, I mean, Daryl talks about what a fucking psychotic, drug-addled monster Hitler was all the time. Like, it's a part of his stuff, but you would have to actually consume his work and Douglas admittedly never listened to him. He was just taking this narrative, this, this like very reductionist narrative. It's very incorrect and just saying it over and over again. And saying it on Bill Maher to applause breaks, but it's not what he's saying.

• 2:50:47Speaker 01

  I saw that. I did see that. I was kinda disappointed by it.

• 2:50:50Joe Rogan?

  It's okay. You know, but, but you'll.

• 2:50:52Speaker 01

  I was like, oh no.

• 2:50:53Joe Rogan?

  It's, it's not, you know, it's not correct.

• 2:50:56Speaker 01

  I, I, I hear you. Do you find that you fall victim to that sometimes? I see myself do it on occasion where you hear a narrative.

• 2:51:04Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:51:04Speaker 01

  And I don't dig deeper on it. And it, I've been guilty of it a couple of times.

• 2:51:10Joe Rogan?

  I apologized to Bobby Kennedy when he came here because I said, I believed everything about you.

• 2:51:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:51:15Joe Rogan?

  Before I read your book. I thought you were this kook who doesn't believe in vaccines and he's an anti-science guy and a conspiracy theorist. And then I read the real Anthony Fauci. I was like, oh.

• 2:51:25Speaker 01

  Bananas.

• 2:51:26Joe Rogan?

  That book's fucking nuts.

• 2:51:28Speaker 01

  It is.

• 2:51:29Joe Rogan?

  And by the way, again, said it before, say it again, he would be sued if it wasn't true. And it is true.

• 2:51:34Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 2:51:34Joe Rogan?

  And what he did during the, just what he did during the AIDS crisis. And I know that they, they gave him a blanket pardon from everything from 2014. Weird. Where'd they choose that date? Where'd they choose that date when Obama had decided to get rid of gain-of-function research? And this motherfucker was like outsourcing it.

• 2:51:52Speaker 01

  Yep, he was.

• 2:51:53Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:51:54Speaker 01

  You know what's crazy? We're still not having that conversation.

• 2:51:57Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 2:51:57Speaker 01

  Not in any meaningful way.

• 2:51:59Joe Rogan?

  Well, at least it's in the White House now. That, and that page is very comprehensive. But it's all right. Go to that page again, cause it's kinda hilarious. Cause it trumps in the middle of it, like walking, like he's getting shit done. Have you seen it?

• 2:52:10Speaker 01

  I've not seen it.

• 2:52:11Joe Rogan?

  It's like, that might be how they tricked him into putting this page out there.

• 2:52:15Speaker 01

  Moratorium on it. That's the irony, I think, didn't he? Obama put a moratorium on it and I think Trump lifted the frigging moratorium.

• 2:52:20Joe Rogan?

  I think it happened.

• 2:52:22Speaker 01

  Oh my gosh.

• 2:52:23Joe Rogan?

  Look at this.

• 2:52:24Speaker 01

  Stop. This is awesome.

• 2:52:25Joe Rogan?

  I'm here to take care of business. I got a serious look on my face. And why are they like the true origins of COVID-19, like COVID signed it?

• 2:52:32Speaker 01

  Oh my god.

• 2:52:33Joe Rogan?

  Why is it a signature?

• 2:52:34Speaker 01

  You know what? Callie posted this and he's like, can any scientist tell me what on this page isn't true? And I kind of thought this was a joke. I thought it was, it was like.

• 2:52:42Joe Rogan?

  No, scroll, scroll. It's the whole thing. It is explaining the whole thing. The virus possesses, scroll up. Virus possesses biological characteristics that is not found in nature.

• 2:52:54Joe Rogan?

  In, you know, italics. Uh, data shows that all COVID-19 cases stem from a single, in italics, "single introduction into humans." This runs contrary to previous pandemics where there were multiple spillover events. Wuhan is home to China's foremost SARS research lab, which has a history of conducting gain-of-function research, gene-altering and organism supercharging at inadequate biosafety levels. And this is where Fauci, you know, they could get him on perjury because he was, you know, when he was being questioned, he let, when he said famously to Rand Paul,

• 2:53:34Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:53:34Joe Rogan?

  "You do not know what you are talking about."

• 2:53:37Speaker 01

  Yup.

• 2:53:38Joe Rogan?

  Look, there's a photo of him with his hand, with his fucking-

• 2:53:42Speaker 01

  You've read the email where he, his team, obviously is like, yo, listen, this is, this is highly suspect.

• 2:53:48Joe Rogan?

  Clearly gain-of-function research.

• 2:53:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:53:49Joe Rogan?

  And then after he communicated with them, they all changed their opinion.

• 2:53:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, for the sake of science and global harmony, let's not, you know, pursue this path. And then the nature study came, and that's-

• 2:53:59Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, so you can download the House Oversight.

• 2:54:02Speaker 01

  Crazy. That looks like a report my daughter would put together, by the way, for high school.

• 2:54:06Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's so crazy.

• 2:54:07Speaker 01

  But what's even more amazing is that each and every one of those points is exactly what Bret Weinstein laid out on your show in March of 2020.

• 2:54:16Joe Rogan?

  Yup.

• 2:54:16Speaker 01

  And I remember-

• 2:54:18Joe Rogan?

  And he was labeled a grandma killer.

• 2:54:19Speaker 01

  I pulled the friggin' car over and started Googling shit on the side of Pacific Coast Highway.

• 2:54:25Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:54:25Speaker 01

  And that was my Neo moment in The Matrix. I, that was it. I, I, that was, I was forever gone. Took the red pill.

• 2:54:33Joe Rogan?

  I'm glad you took it.

• 2:54:34Speaker 01

  And it was over, man.

• 2:54:35Joe Rogan?

  I'm glad you're on the right side of things.

• 2:54:37Speaker 01

  Thank you, sir.

• 2:54:37Joe Rogan?

  Thanks for being here. I really enjoyed talking to you, too. It was a lot of fun.

• 2:54:40Speaker 01

  Thank you for having me.

• 2:54:41Joe Rogan?

  Uh, keep fighting the good fight.

• 2:54:42Speaker 01

  I will, me too.

• 2:54:44Joe Rogan?

  Thank you. All right. Bye, everybody.

• 2:55:01Speaker 00

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• 2:55:28Speaker 00

  Now streaming on Paramount+. I'm Dexter Morgan. I've been killing killers for half my life. It gets to you. You're having a midlife crisis. I'm not ready for this. He's back. I'm older. I'm wiser.

• 2:55:43Speaker 00

  And sharper than ever. Things are gonna get messy. But if I can't believe in myself, I can't believe in anything. Dexter Resurrection. New season now streaming on the Paramount+ Premium Plan.