#2312 - Jeremy Renner

Jeremy Renner is an actor, musician, philanthropist, and author. His new book, "My Next Breath: A Memoir," is available now. https://www.instagram.com/jeremyrenner Get a free welcome kit with your first subscription of AG1 at drinkag1.com/joerogan Don’t miss out on all the action - Download the DraftKings app today! Sign-up using dkng.co/rogan or with my promo code ROGAN. GAMBLING PROBLEM? CALL 1-800-GAMBLER, (800) 327-5050 or visit gamblinghelplinema.org (MA). Call 877-8-HOPENY/text HOPENY (467369) (NY). Please Gamble Responsibly. 888-789-7777/visit ccpg.org (CT), or visit www.mdgamblinghelp.org (MD). 21+ and present in most states. (18+ DC/KY/NH/WY). Void in ONT/OR/NH. Eligibility restrictions apply. On behalf of Boot Hill Casino & Resort (KS). 1 per new customer. $5+ first-time bet req. Max. $200 issued as non-withdrawable Bonus Bets that expire in 7 days (168 hours). Stake removed from payout. Terms: sportsbook.draftkings.com/promos. Ends 5/18/25 at 11:59 PM ET. Sponsored by DK. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:13Joe Rogan?

  What's happening, man?

• 0:14Speaker 01

  What's going on?

• 0:15Joe Rogan?

  It's great to see you.

• 0:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, good to be seen.

• 0:17Joe Rogan?

  Boy, what a journey you've been on.

• 0:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 0:21Joe Rogan?

  I started listening to your audiobook. It was giving me anxiety.

• 0:25Speaker 01

  It gets better, right? It takes a minute, but there's a relief for the reader.

• 0:32Joe Rogan?

  Well, the relief is seeing you healthy, walking around.

• 0:35Speaker 01

  Well, the relief is also, you kind of know the end of the story, right? Before you go into it. So then you can really kind of dive into the actual detailed narrative that I put out. There's no other way to do it. But yeah, it's tough for a minute. It's like, wow, my sister, it took her a while to read. And anybody that was kind of involved in the incident takes a minute. You know, it took me a long time to kind of get through it, right? It's anxious for me, too.

• 1:01Joe Rogan?

  So how long was the actual recovery? Because you don't even walk with a limp.

• 1:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, it's quite, there's a lot, some things are pretty miraculous. Some things can be explained and something, and I tried to figure it out as I was writing the book, you know? A lot of people ask questions. I ask myself questions. Some things were on my own will, some things were otherworldly of some sort. But yeah, I was given, you know, I was supposed to walk with a limp because pretty much a lot of titanium, and then was certainly not running, and I'm doing far beyond all those things. Don't know exactly why. I can pontificate on why, you know?

• 1:41Joe Rogan?

  What do you think of this?

• 1:43Speaker 01

  I think, I think it's, will is, will is a really special thing. And the love and fuel to fuel your will, I had in spades. I can, I feel like I could pretty much do anything if I set my mind to it. When it was my essential part of my life, my recovery, was a 24-hour day job. When typically I do many, many other things, right, as we all do in our lives, but when all my focus, like even parenting, was out the window until I can get better. So I had to do that first. So that being the central part of every thought, every fiber, every cell in my body was geared towards a one-way street of recovery. Oh, I'm getting fucking better.

• 2:30Speaker 01

  So I just got better and there's no, what's the alternative?

• 2:33Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 2:34Speaker 01

  You know, I was, I was brought back somehow, some way. And it would be a disservice to not do all the things I'm supposed to be doing and wanna be doing. So it just took a lot of effort and it looked a lot of support to, heck dude, I mean, there's hundreds of people involved in helping me not die again. You know, but then it was, but at the end of the day, the recovery, as you know, you've been, everybody's been injured in some sort of way. It's, it's a lonely road. It's your, it's only you. No matter how much help you have or PT you have, if your, your tendons go, whatever the heck happens, you still have to put in the work every day and endure the, the pain and manage the pain and mitigate it.

• 3:17Speaker 01

  Um, it's, it can be quite lonely, but I always found that the, my, my, my, my daughter and my family, as I see their faces. When I get better, I could stand up, let's say, or not pee in a jar. I could get in a wheelchair and go, eh, any sort of milestone. I'd see their faces get a little bit less horrified, even relieved, even quite joyful even. So, uh, as much as damage as I did to my family and their, their, their hearts, um, me getting better can, um, can relieve them of that burden. So it was an easy one-way road to recover. And that's why I recovered fast and I, I attributed to my love for my family.

• 3:55Joe Rogan?

  Wow. So let's bring it back to the day of the accident. What, when exactly was it?

• 4:02Speaker 01

  It was, uh, New Year's Day.

• 4:04Joe Rogan?

  New Year's Day.

• 4:05Speaker 01

  New Year's Day, two thousand twenty-three. Yeah. And I host my family at my house up there, um, like twenty-five people. Every post-Christmas to New Year's all the time. Friend, family, friends, whoever, um, just kinda come up and we can celebrate the, the holidays together. Go skiing, all these type of things. But we had a big kinda snowmageddon type, snow event that, you know, shut down the mountain that I live on. At the top of, uh, Lake Tahoe, at about eight thousand feet elevation, and we got just tons and tons of snow. But it happens often, maybe not that intense of a storm. But so much so where we were cut off from anywhere else, we're snowed in. Fine. I'm prepared for that stuff. Um, three days without power, prepared for it, it's fine, we can have fun.

• 4:48Speaker 01

  Uh, it's actually a relief, all the cell phones go off, all the iPads go away, computers, and everybody's just playing card games with headlamps on, and, I mean, it's a riot. So we had a, a, a good time, you know, so food supply was still good, but, you know, it's, you know, it's New Year's Day and we're getting a break in the weather, so I decided I needed to clear the roads and see, come out for air, essentially. And, um, in doing so, that's when the, the accident sort of transpired. It's, and it's not, it's more of a routine type of thing to have a, a half a mile long driveway up there. And I have to maintain it myself, so I have a snowcat and a bunch of other snow removal type of equipment. There's a bunch of vehicles, snowmobiles even, things that got stuck in the driveway, because it was a lot of extra snow, and it was very, some of it was very light, and then

• 5:31Speaker 01

  it got very icy and hard, so you're sinking down like three or four feet into it, and it was a hot mess, so had to try to dig all that stuff out using the snowcat, pulling this stuff out. This thing, a snowcat, to describe it in words is pretty difficult, but it's like a tank. Um, it's probably, I don't know, twelve feet wide, the tracks on each side, so it, so it spins like a tank, like a skid steer.

• 5:54Joe Rogan?

  There it is.

• 5:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, there we go, so that's, that's, that's a small, tiny version of one. Um, but yeah, it's something kind of, I got a Star Wars, you know? But this minor, or metal track, it's more like that one, right there.

• 6:03Joe Rogan?

  Oh, you got one like that?

• 6:05Speaker 01

  That, that's it, it's exactly like the one I have. So, it's about like sixteen thousand pounds or so, and it's, it's very nimble on the snow, on the snow.

• 6:14Joe Rogan?

  Just to see it physi-, put it back up? To see it physically and to know that that's what ran over your leg?

• 6:21Speaker 01

  Over my whole body.

• 6:22Joe Rogan?

  Oh, God.

• 6:23Speaker 01

  Yeah. It was, uh, so you have to step on the tracks, you see, to get into the cab to operate it. So stepping on the tracks is, is a normal thing to do, you just don't do it while the things, you're operating it, right? You're in the thing, you drive it, and it's just easy, it's a thumb, go forward, reverse, and you're neutral, and that's it. It's really easy to operate. Um, but it was just, the, the accident happened because you have to get in and out on the, off on those tracks, and I hit the, the thumb thing and, uh, it threw me off, and I was going towards my nephew, so I had to jump back on and try to stop it from killing him, because I was gonna crush him between the truck and the, and that big blade that I have. But you see that thing?

• 7:02Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 7:03Speaker 01

  It's a few thousand pounds, that thing's gnarly. But, so, my instinct was to jump back on it and try to stop it, um, you know, obviously it didn't work out. And got ran over and uh, there you go.

• 7:15Joe Rogan?

  What, how much of your body did it run over?

• 7:16Speaker 01

  The entire, all of it.

• 7:18Joe Rogan?

  Oh my god.

• 7:19Speaker 01

  Cause I went, if the tracks were here to jump in the cab, I leaped, leapt up and over to try to grab onto it and got sucked under the whole thing, so the, so the whole length of it, just kinda, so there's like a set of wheels that turn these tracks, you see? And there's like six wheels, so it, so it undulates, so I felt all the undulate, the first one was the worst, like the pressure and skull crush and all that stuff. And then it releases, cause then the undulation of the tire and the, the track. And you're awake for that, just like by the sixth undulation, just like, alright, alright, just kinda finish already, and you're just like,

• 7:55Speaker 01

  it almost like, you know, you're like you're drowning and being struck by lightning and bleeding out, all the things all at once, man, it's like immense pressure and immovable object and, you know, my skull kinda lost out but still survived and,

• 8:12Joe Rogan?

  Your skull got run over?

• 8:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's like, it was like, you know, yeah, it's everything, it's like, it's thirty eight broken bones and eyeballs out.

• 8:22Joe Rogan?

  Oh my god.

• 8:23Speaker 01

  And it's a,

• 8:24Joe Rogan?

  Shout out to medical science.

• 8:26Speaker 01

  I know, right? And yeah, I mean, all the doctors were like, dude, I don't know how your eye's still operating or still working, but I think because I was on ice, cause I did see it, I'm like, well, maybe I'm gonna put this eye on ice and just kinda rolled into it.

• 8:42Speaker 01

  Cause I saw my eye with my other eye, right? And I'm like, I'm gonna be able to keep that thing, cause I'm on like, an icy asphalt driveway that's off of my driveway, right? The top of the road. So, it wasn't really great for impact or getting ran over, I wish I was on a snowpack, could've been maybe a little bit easier, it'd push me into snow, right, but it wasn't. So I just kinda rolled onto it, just like maybe I could kinda put the eye on ice until I could figure out how to breathe. You know, I had to sort of laugh at it, cause it's weird to sort of think about that, you know?

• 9:14Joe Rogan?

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• 12:05Joe Rogan?

  So, 38 bones?

• 12:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I was like, there were a lot of ribs and all my spiral fractures in my legs. All my joints were broken, all my ankles, my knees, my... None of my spine. And I only got a laceration in my liver from one of the ribs breaking in a couple of spots, and I went down and kind of stabbed it, but it didn't really mess it up too bad, so that's okay. But all my organs, my brain, I don't think there's any brain damage. I'll use that excuse later, I guess.

• 12:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, and my spine, that's the miracle. It's like, how did I break 14 ribs, right? And I cracked my skull and every arm and leg and finger and thing, but my spine was spared.

• 12:54Joe Rogan?

  Oh, my God.

• 12:55Speaker 01

  And all my organs were spared, and my brain. And so, like, it's kind of almost no harm, no foul at the end of the day, even though there's, you know, probably 20% titanium in my body at this point, but...

• 13:05Joe Rogan?

  So, how many pieces of titanium were in you?

• 13:08Speaker 01

  Well, the guy that invented this procedure worked at the hospital in Reno, because there's a lot of crushing injuries that happen to all the ski resorts and mines that are in the area. So, I got really lucky to get this doctor. But it took four doctors to get to this guy. So, so says my family. I was out in a coma. And, but they, once they found this guy, he was on vacation, the mayor of Reno actually called him, said, "You gotta get back and help my friend out." And so, he rushed out, and he's just like, this is what he does for a living. He's like, "Oh, this is easy. I can't wait to do this for this guy." You know? So, relieved on my family, there was such relief, because they were like, "Oh, he's gonna lose his eye, we're gonna cut off his leg." I mean, all this kind of tragic sort of prognosis, whatever you want to call it, right? So, this guy comes, "No, no, it's fine.

• 13:52Speaker 01

  We're gonna hammer this thing in, we're gonna do this, do his face plate, do the thing, we're gonna do this." And just lucky that the orbital bone that broke and the cheekbone that broke, they only wanted to do that because, because my face, as an actor, maybe you want to save my cheekbone, I guess. I, not that I cared about it, but... Um, but yeah, he fixed up my, my, all my ribs and they use like, like this mesh and this, he has this sort of weird way to kind of handle, if you fix one or two of the ribs that are all broken, the rest will kind of fall into place, the bone, the body's pretty miraculous, just give it a little direction and then it heals on itself and it'll grow the bone. So, um, it's not as much titanium in my ribs as one might think for all those breaks, it's

• 14:34Speaker 01

  only, you know, I mean, it's, it's, it looks like rebar, right? You get a scan, like my, you know, a lot of my body's like.

• 14:41Joe Rogan?

  Do you have a, an x-ray of your body?

• 14:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, somewhere, yeah, yeah, somewhere.

• 14:44Joe Rogan?

  Is it online anywhere? Where we can see it?

• 14:47Speaker 01

  I don't know.

• 14:48Joe Rogan?

  Do you have it on your phone or anything?

• 14:49Speaker 01

  I don't think so, I could, I could ask my sister for it.

• 14:51Joe Rogan?

  I've been showing everybody that thing.

• 14:56Speaker 01

  It's, it's, it's pretty, it's pretty remedial looking, you know? It looks like, you know, like I had a hammer and, and a two by four and some nails and that's what this looks like, it looks just very like, is it, why is there a nail and two screws and, you know, it's, uh, it's carpentry 101, you know? There's nothing like, you know, I think the guy that, cause I had like screws in my skull and my, my jaw, cause that broke in three spots. And the guy took it out, it's something that he got from Home Depot. It literally is like a, some, you know, just, he just took it out, I'm like, dude, it's squeaking like it's in wood, you need to numb it or something? I almost knocked this guy out.

• 15:38Speaker 01

  It's just like. It's unbelievable, unbelievable. And I was always, I was always kind of half in the, the bag mentally, just kind of, cause it takes so much mental, um, to deal with like, pain management and, uh, it's emotionally exhausting to deal with like so many different things in your body. So I'm always kind of half paying attention to things, you know, my, it's, I'm much sharper mentally now because I don't have to mitigate so much. Inflammation, pain, all the time. So I can kind of be here and laugh with you. Uh, but back then, when this guy was, I, I almost sucked this guy so hard, dude.

• 16:22Speaker 01

  But, uh, yeah, glad, that was, I was really happy to, um, that was a great milestone for me to get these screws out of my skull.

• 16:29Joe Rogan?

  Jesus.

• 16:30Speaker 01

  But, um, that was, uh, that was worse than getting ran over by the snowcat, dude.

• 16:34Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 16:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

• 16:37Joe Rogan?

  In terms of pain or just discomfort?

• 16:39Speaker 01

  Well, no, it, it wasn't so much the pain, it's the haunting images of feeling my, um, gums wrap around this screw. As he's, and it's pulling out, it's a lot longer than I thought it was. And then there's three more to go. Uh, it was more the, the visual is, in my mind, um, kind of what makes it terrible. You know, the visual, because I'm a pretty visual guy. Uh, so I don't think anything, um, hurts me so much in a physical way. But the visual is a pretty haunting image. And the sounds, dude, it vibrates your skull as he's taking it out.

• 17:16Joe Rogan?

  Oh.

• 17:17Speaker 01

  And it's like, ugh.

• 17:21Speaker 01

  This is what horror films are made of, right? This is like Saw or something.

• 17:24Joe Rogan?

  Is that the only thing that they had to take out? Is the screws that were in your head or did they take them out of your body as well?

• 17:30Speaker 01

  No, no, they have to leave those in for the most part because why risk infection and open you up to, for something? But, um, yeah, so all that, all the rest of the stuff stays in until those screws come loose. At some point, they, they will.

• 17:44Joe Rogan?

  They start backing out, right?

• 17:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. You'd think you'd put in a locking screw, right?

• 17:50Joe Rogan?

  I've had friends that have had broken arms and starts poking out of the bone.

• 17:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 17:54Joe Rogan?

  And they have to get another operation and get it removed.

• 17:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:57Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 17:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:58Joe Rogan?

  So how many different plates do you have?

• 18:02Speaker 01

  I, I think I got, it's only a couple in my face and they went in like underneath my cheek. The plate for my, uh, orbital socket and then for the cheekbone. They put, I think a plate or two over there to hold that bone in place.

• 18:15Joe Rogan?

  Do you feel it?

• 18:17Speaker 01

  Um, I, I feel the, the lack of, um, feeling in it. It's still, still numbness to that, this whole side. Cause they had to cut all these nerve endings, right, to get in through your mouth. So even the side of my, um, Faces a little slightly, little, little, little numish.

• 18:38Joe Rogan?

  And the rest of them, do you feel like, how much do you feel in all your different bones and joints and all the different things that got repaired?

• 18:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, it's, it's, there's lots of scar tissue to work through all the time. Um, it's, what's great is like, it's not any one spot. It's like it, it moves around, you know, even if you're not injured, it's like if you just twist your leg wrong and then it, it goes up into your hip and then it's in your shoulder, it moves around, your body kind of, it moves it around, so you just kind of stay on top of it and there's always something to, to work through, you know, in your body, you know? And it's just, you know, look, I already have to do it anyway, I'm fifty-four. And I'm gonna have to take, take care of my health and I just have to make it a very central part of my life, so.

• 19:21Joe Rogan?

  And so now, do you have full range of motion, full mobility, everything is back to normal?

• 19:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't know what normal is, uh, you know?

• 19:31Speaker 01

  Uh, I'm gonna be, you know, I, I feel like I'm maybe a hundred and ten percent, just because spiritually, mentally, um, I'm so much better.

• 19:40Speaker 01

  I got so many gifts from dying, coming back, that, yeah, I'm, I'm a hundred and fifty percent. My body will always be, look, my body's aging, so I have to fight against age. Well, recovery is age reversing. It's the same, same stuff that people are doing just to reverse age. I just do it just because it's my recovery and I have to for the rest of my life, just to prevent inflammation and discomfort and swelling, things like that.

• 20:04Joe Rogan?

  So, when you have so many broken bones and so many broken joints, what is the recovery like? Like, how do they even get you moving again?

• 20:14Speaker 01

  Day by day.

• 20:15Joe Rogan?

  Day by day.

• 20:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, instantly, as soon as I got home from the hospital, um, yeah, it was PT there and working to just move, keep things moving, you have to, otherwise you lose it. You'll lock up or you lose it.

• 20:29Joe Rogan?

  Seeing you walk around today in the studio, I would have no idea.

• 20:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:34Joe Rogan?

  You look totally normal.

• 20:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's great. It's, it takes a lot of work and it's still working, like, I was having to stretch in your studio, you know, I have to, I have to move quite a bit so I don't lock up. After, after a good night's sleep, it's like, eh, you could be a little stiff in the morning and I have to do some stretches and things like that, but I think if I didn't get in the accident in fifty-four, I'd probably have to do it anyway.

• 20:57Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 20:59Speaker 01

  Feels good to have to force the stretching, I think.

• 21:04Joe Rogan?

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• 22:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 22:25Joe Rogan?

  And how long does it take before you can sit up?

• 22:28Speaker 01

  I don't know.

• 22:31Speaker 01

  I don't know, it's pretty, it moved pretty quick. Randomly with the punctured lung and all this broke, the shoulder, the collarbone dislocation, all this stuff. That healed pretty quickly. But that doesn't require gravity and force under your legs, like your legs have to take, right? So that took a little bit longer, the legs, both ankles, right? Those are under trauma and plates and those. Um, you know, this is all a pipe essentially, a piece of rebar, my, my whole lower leg. So that took a little bit longer, but the, the ribs ironically, it was only painful for, I feel like a couple of weeks. I also had these like plastic suitcases for my lungs. Cause they had to let it bleed out and this stuff was going in, I don't know what goop was in that thing.

• 23:15Speaker 01

  But I had to carry those things around for a while. But once I got rid of those, I was kind of sitting up a bit more and um. I felt good once I was kind of sitting up, but there's still, as you can imagine, so much trauma, so many places, but.

• 23:30Speaker 01

  I think the longest it was, was really getting up to, to stand up, to walk, to get all your joints to work properly again, to. Relearn to walk, relearn to move, cause you really kind of have to. A lot of atrophy, as you can imagine, that happens, but I was standing up um and moving around. Uh, I got into a chair probably, you know, by the, by, by February after like three weeks. Wow. And um, the more I can move, the faster you heal, you're getting more blood flow, you're getting, you're getting your body to work better.

• 24:02Speaker 01

  Help with my, my attitude uh and will to get out and sit up, you know, all the things, each of these things are like milestones and I would just like, yeah. And then move forward to the next thing and set a goal for myself, even if it was just like to. Sit up and like turn or I, I didn't have to set such big, to reach too far, to keep my confidence high. So, cause I keep reaching these goals and just kept going and going and going and. And I find, I find myself, again, it's 24 hours a day, so. Right. What do I have to do today? Well, I don't even have to ask, I just gotta get better. And you know, it just kept going and whatever thing, and there's so many things to attack, to get better, it's like I never got bored. I just had all these bands and stuff, I was in, I remember being in a wheelchair and I'd wrap it around like this desk and I'd be in it, is it like a leg press?

• 24:45Speaker 01

  You know, all these like interesting ways to like, to try to strengthen my, my, my body and get better, whatever wasn't, you know. I, anything that would work, I would do it. Wow. I'd say no to nothing, say yes to everything and let's try it, let's do it. Took in everything, took in everything.

• 25:02Joe Rogan?

  You know, they say that is one of the more difficult things with stroke victims. Is the will to do the exercises to force yourself to recover.

• 25:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:14Joe Rogan?

  Cause so many people just, they, they have never done that before. They've never pushed themselves before. They don't, and they, there's this tendency to just kinda give up. Some people have.

• 25:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. It's, it's part of the reason why I wrote the book. Cause maybe people, cause it's a lonely place when, when people are struggling in, in recovery. And when it's a lifetime recovery too, you know? Um, I hope they can find something they can grab on to. Like if this guy can get overcome this, I can get out of my own way here. And maybe not, maybe think of it a little differently. The only thing we have control of ever in life in perpetuity is our perspective. So, you know, what's my, I could easily just go be victimized and, you know?

• 25:56Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 25:56Speaker 01

  Cry about it and like, oh, my career is over and that. I mean, it's not, it's not even part of the narrative, part of, it's not even in the conversation. It's like, I'm getting better every day for the rest of my life. That's it.

• 26:07Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 26:08Speaker 01

  There's only one way to go. What's the alternative, Joe? Right, what is the alternative? I kept, I keep saying that to my, what's the alternative? I'm not gonna stumble around through life.

• 26:17Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 26:17Speaker 01

  I wasn't brought back here just, just to suffer. That's not happening. I'd say, I'm blow up the machine, I'm done, I'm outta here. It's way better being dead. You know what I mean? I'm not gonna come back and, and, and just waddle, and limp my way through life. It's not gonna happen.

• 26:31Joe Rogan?

  What's crazy is you, if you didn't approach it like that, you probably wouldn't be able to walk.

• 26:35Speaker 01

  Correct, correct.

• 26:37Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, because there have been a lot of people that have been gravely injured that never come back.

• 26:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, you have to push it, right? Anything that's in your life for excellence, you have to obsess at it. And risk everything for it. You have to, or it's not gonna happen. No one's gonna do it for you. But what else are you gonna do?

• 26:57Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 26:57Speaker 01

  You know, I mean, again, like I said, what's the alternative? Yeah, this sucks, but like, so does a cold plunge, and so does this, and so does that, and so does that. You gotta really test, we gotta test our bodies, our limits, to really have real growth. And especially in recovery, you have to, what else are you gonna do, man? You gonna take pills?

• 27:14Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 27:15Speaker 01

  That was one, again, one of the harder things, worse than the accident as well, is getting off oxycontin. And I got off pretty quickly, and like, that's gnarly stuff, man. I'm glad it was there for, you know, the pain for me, but like, I wanted to get off it as soon as possible, so, cause it's highly, highly addictive. And coming off that stuff was gnarly.

• 27:34Joe Rogan?

  It's so hard, and you have a really strong will, and some people don't.

• 27:39Speaker 01

  I know.

• 27:39Joe Rogan?

  And they put all people on that stuff.

• 27:41Speaker 01

  That's crazy, dude.

• 27:42Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 27:43Speaker 01

  It was really, ironically, I was supposed to be doing a, a, uh, a movie about the Sackra family.

• 27:51Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 27:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. That, but it was supposed to happen like literally that, that April, or just that, that spring. Um, obviously that got canceled, cause I had to take oxycontin to kind of get by. But then I had to get off that stuff real quick, you know? It was really interesting, too, how people treated that drug, you know? Everyone like was monitoring, counting the pills, if it was a half a thing, or this, or that. Like, everyone was on it, like, dude, what? You're treating me like I'm some sort of drug addict, don't give me this stuff, I don't want it. Jesus Christ, it's terrible.

• 28:22Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 28:23Speaker 01

  But it's a pretty powerful, powerful stuff. And I don't, I don't ever blame sort of the drug, I just think sort of how maybe it's, it's free to use, and it's, it's even supported in school systems, and, you know, they got, that, that family kind of got away with a lot of stuff to promote that stuff.

• 28:38Joe Rogan?

  To put it mildly.

• 28:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's a whole nother.

• 28:41Joe Rogan?

  You seen Peter Berg's, uh, thing on Netflix, Painkiller? Have you seen that? It's a docudrama, documenting the Sackra family.

• 28:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 28:50Joe Rogan?

  Matthew Broderick.

• 28:51Speaker 01

  Yep, yep, it's gnarly, man, gnarly.

• 28:53Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that, that's an evil family.

• 28:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:56Joe Rogan?

  What they did to people, and, and just support the idea that, you know, hey, this, you could just be on this, and you don't have any pain, don't worry about it. And it's not even addictive. Just.

• 29:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's the knowing, it's the knowing part and then.

• 29:09Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 29:10Speaker 01

  Then double downing and selling, you know, getting it really getting it out there.

• 29:13Joe Rogan?

  And promoting it as a thing that you could be on forever.

• 29:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:17Joe Rogan?

  Which is just insane.

• 29:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:19Joe Rogan?

  So you're on it and how long did you have to be on it for?

• 29:23Speaker 01

  I, again, always working to, to get off of it and I think maybe it was around, if I got home on January thirteenth, Friday the thirteenth.

• 29:38Speaker 01

  And I think it was probably less than a month, probably like beginning of February because I had, all my molars and stuff got pushed in, so my mouth's a hot mess, my jaw's broken and, but I'd have night terrors, as you would, uh, being awake through that trauma. So, and I bit down and the tooth was in, just in a certain spot and just cracked my molar and, and it goes down to the nerve and that. I'm like, oh, I feel that pain, but I'm on all this OxyContin, I don't feel, hmm, maybe I don't need to be on that shit. So I had to go get that emergency extraction and get a post put in and on my back molar. And I said, well, I'm, I'm gonna, I'll take it one more time just for the tooth pain or whatever, even what the dentist gave me.

• 30:22Speaker 01

  I think I took the dentist's stuff, whatever that was, and cold turkey off OxyContin and gabapentin.

• 30:29Joe Rogan?

  Oof, cold turkey.

• 30:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, I didn't know.

• 30:32Joe Rogan?

  You didn't know how hard it would be? Oh, no.

• 30:36Speaker 01

  I was just so adamant.

• 30:39Speaker 01

  I don't really listen to the doctors. I don't listen to the doctors, man. Uh, you know, so, yeah, so I started crying, um, for about three and a half days straight. Uh, even during my PT, I'm just like, and not that I'm even sad, but like full crocodile tears, just tears, tears. Twenty-four hours a day, right? Just going, I couldn't stop crying and I was shivering, um.

• 31:03Joe Rogan?

  So this is all just withdrawal?

• 31:04Speaker 01

  Withdrawal, yeah. I wasn't thinking that anything other than like, why am I crying? I, I didn't know it was withdrawal. Even, cause my mind's not there. I'm in, my mind's in recovery and getting off this stuff and focusing on holding my body up. It, it takes just a lot of mental acuity to, to just exist, right? So I wasn't thinking that, yeah, of course, I look back on it, it's like, of course I'm coming off the fucking heroin, I just think.

• 31:31Speaker 01

  So, yeah, and then, and so I, I called my sister and thing, I'm like, I don't know why I'm crying. I can't stop crying. And she's like, well, let's, let's call up, I had these different doctors that we'd zoom call with when I was at home. And so we called the, the, the pain management doctors. She's like, look, I told him, he's like, what are you doing? You gotta taper off that for like, takes like two weeks at least. You can't just cold turkey, Gabby. No wonder you're feeling all cold and all this stuff, cause that's all nerve stuff. So I started feeling gravity, I started feeling temperature, I started feeling everything. It was like, phew, on fire, right? So, um.

• 32:05Joe Rogan?

  Why did you make the decision to go cold turkey?

• 32:07Speaker 01

  Because I didn't want, I didn't, I don't like the feeling of being on pain meds. I don't like, you know, I want to have my mind. I mean, I was always using like humor to find my sobriety. If I could land a joke, that means I'm reading the room and I'm hitting the timing right, whatever it is, you know, right? So I, I wanted my, I needed my mind. And I needed my wit, I needed my will to, to recover. I needed sleep and I needed my brain. And the drugs kind of numb my brain, as they would, right? As they numb your whole body. So I just wanted off of them. And I don't like how I feel, you feel muddy. And I just didn't like the feeling. So, you know, it came with a price, but I got the okay to like,

• 32:49Speaker 01

  take a little fiber of oxy to, to sleep on if you needed to mitigate some pain, just so I could sleep. I'm like, okay, maybe I'll do that if it happens. And I did it once or twice or three times, maybe after that moment, but I got through it. And I got off it. But I got off it because I cracked that tooth. And that, I felt pain. Like that is like, that's not gonna let me sleep at all. It's a heartbeat in my brain, my face is just like throbbing, right? As you would for anybody. So I said like, oh, that's, then I don't need to take the pain meds. So I'm like, that was my excuse to get off the pain meds.

• 33:20Joe Rogan?

  Right, cause if you're feeling pain and you're on the pain meds.

• 33:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, I would have been on that shit much longer if I didn't crack that tooth. Cause I wouldn't have the will or say like, oh, let's get off this stuff. Right. But it took that. I'm like, okay, well, I don't need it.

• 33:34Joe Rogan?

  I had knee surgery in 93 and they gave me something. I don't, it was either Percocet or Vicodin. I don't remember what it was. And I took it one time. And I felt so bad. I felt so stupid.

• 33:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:47Joe Rogan?

  I remember being in my apartment in New York, just feeling so dumb and just thinking I'd rather be in pain.

• 33:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:52Joe Rogan?

  And so one day, I took it one day and I'm like, that's it. I'm done.

• 33:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:57Joe Rogan?

  And then I sold it. I sold my, uh, my pills to this guy Jeff at the pool hall.

• 34:02Speaker 01

  It's a dirtbag.

• 34:02Joe Rogan?

  It was this dirtbag guy that I used to hang out with at the pool hall. He had a bandana and long hair. He was a hippie. He always sold drugs. And I sold them to him.

• 34:14Speaker 01

  He's like, I'll take it. What do you got? Yeah, yeah. What do you got?

• 34:16Joe Rogan?

  And, uh, then I had surgery again. I've had a bunch of different surgeries for jujitsu injuries, martial arts injuries.

• 34:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 34:24Joe Rogan?

  Second time I had surgery on my knee, I had a knee reconstruction again on my other knee in 2003. I didn't dig anything. I'm just, I just like, I don't want nothing. I'm just gonna just deal with it and it was okay.

• 34:37Speaker 01

  Yeah. Maybe anti-inflammatory or something and it's.

• 34:40Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I didn't even take that stuff cause I don't think that's good for you either.

• 34:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 34:45Joe Rogan?

  You know, I mean, it's, you're gonna be in pain no matter what. It's just gonna dull it a little bit. I'd rather feel it all.

• 34:53Speaker 01

  I agree. I agree.

• 34:54Joe Rogan?

  Accustomed to it and deal with it.

• 34:56Speaker 01

  Yeah. That was like back when I, even when I had my wisdom teeth pulled out when I was like 20 or something. You know, that's pretty gnarly surgery, right? And they give you like, uh, it was a codeine or something, you know? I just puked on that and said, no way. Took one pill and I never took, didn't sell to anybody.

• 35:13Joe Rogan?

  Isn't it astonishing that some people like it?

• 35:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's, people party on it and they'll go drinking, like two Vicodin, all that stuff. I just, it's just the opposite for me. I just can't. It's just, my body doesn't agree with it.

• 35:23Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 35:24Speaker 01

  Uh, I just, uh, and I'm glad I don't, I don't like it.

• 35:27Joe Rogan?

  I had a friend of mine who was a musician and he would write all his music on, on Vicodins. And I was like, what? How do you do that, man? Like, I took it, whatever it was that I took, I can't remember which one it was, but I felt like a moron. I just felt like I had like 20% of my brain.

• 35:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 35:45Joe Rogan?

  And it was just this dull, like wet cotton stuffed in my head.

• 35:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:50Joe Rogan?

  But I mean, I guess maybe it's just like different biology, maybe different people react to it differently.

• 35:56Speaker 01

  For sure.

• 35:57Joe Rogan?

  It wasn't for me.

• 35:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, I agree.

• 35:59Joe Rogan?

  So how long did it take for the withdrawal to subside?

• 36:04Speaker 01

  By the time I got to the uh, the, that zoom with the, the, the pain management doctor. Uh, he, he said like, well, don't do that. You should taper off. Like, well, I'm already off it now. I'm like, I'm, I've come off the, the crying train. Um, especially because he also made sense of it for me. It's like, so it's coming, it's like, it's like day four by the time I talked to him and. Um, it just helped me make sense of like why I was feeling the way I was feeling, cause it, it felt like a setback.

• 36:34Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 36:35Speaker 01

  You know, and cause there are setbacks in recovery, but this felt like a real setback. Like I, like I, I couldn't. Grab of why, and I'm pretty in tune with like my body and my emotions and my everything. And I just couldn't grab why I was. When it's so obvious.

• 36:53Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 36:53Speaker 01

  But then, you know, I don't, I'm not the one really administering this stuff. My mom's just giving me the pill and doing peptide injections for me and, you know. Rebirthing me, you know, taking care of me.

• 37:03Joe Rogan?

  What peptides were you on?

• 37:04Speaker 01

  Oh man, if I look back, I don't know, I was getting three, three um, MLs, so three loads and they were all mixed up. So as you would.

• 37:14Speaker 01

  Uh, probably say a lot of the same ones that I'm on now that I continue and I rotate in and out of different ones.

• 37:19Joe Rogan?

  BBC one five seven.

• 37:20Speaker 01

  BBC one five seven. T D five hundred. Amisin, yeah, all those, yeah, yeah. A O D and Mat C and, uh, I had to do a lot of blood work to get my hemoglobin was at two.

• 37:31Joe Rogan?

  Whoa.

• 37:31Speaker 01

  Yeah. That was what it was going back to work. Back to Mayor Kingston. Crazy. Yeah. Uh, it's like the blood of a dead man essentially. I just got no energy. So then I started really working with um.

• 37:45Speaker 01

  All my blood panels, big, giant, wide, 16-vial blood panels. And that started to be my new course of recovery, of a cellular way, in a blood way. And that's where I really started to get strong. I was moving around, I was mobile, all the bones are healed. By this time, it's like a year's gone by, but now I started working on cellular and blood health. And that's when I, that's when I got to like, my skin started to look great and, you know, because your blood is, tells you what your body's producing and not producing, right? So that was a great report card, a barometer of where I was at, why I'm not, you know, where my mitochondrial levels are at, anything was at. So it was really, really great part of my recovery. And that's what I'll continue to do and still continue to do today.

• 38:30Joe Rogan?

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• 40:02Joe Rogan?

  Did you use a hyperbaric chamber?

• 40:03Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 40:04Joe Rogan?

  That must have helped.

• 40:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. Yeah. What it did for me, it's not something, I don't think there's many things in my recovery that you do that feel good. It just doesn't make you feel shitty.

• 40:14Joe Rogan?

  Right. It's like you're building a mountain, one layer of paint at a time.

• 40:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, so but hyperbaric is great. It's it helps with lactic acid when you're working out as you know, it's all the oxygen you you put in your body is is a great necessity. Again, there are those things that are even age reversing. It's also a disease preventative.

• 40:34Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 40:34Speaker 01

  It's amazing this thing. And it's I got one that was um you can sit in and do multiple things. I can not just I can't just sit there for an hour and a half in the chamber and like

• 40:45Speaker 01

  I'll go crazy. I have a busy brain, you know, and so I get a computer, whatever, email, whatever I can do is a to kind of continue to do it to make it a part of my life.

• 40:53Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that's cool.

• 40:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, and then I go into like a red light bed, a high powered red light infrared bed, then it moves all that oxygen through my body even more so and gets deeper into the tissue. It's amazing.

• 41:03Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I use both of those things.

• 41:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, those are huge parts of my life. Yeah.

• 41:06Joe Rogan?

  But I would imagine for something like what you went through, it's imperative.

• 41:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, for tissue recovery and oh, man, huge, huge, huge, faster for repair.

• 41:16Joe Rogan?

  And so from so a year later, you're walking around.

• 41:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, for yeah, by I was walking by my daughter's birthday was March twenty eighth. So I guess a few months later I was walking, but it was assisted, very assisted week, walking with cane or a walker.

• 41:34Joe Rogan?

  So that had to be amazing.

• 41:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. And then I was like by the summertime, I stopped doing recovery. The intense twenty four hour day recovery. I would do like a twelve hour a day recovery and then go walk in the sand in Lake Tahoe. Lake Tahoe is the world's biggest cold plunge. It's a freezing ass lake. So I just go dip my legs in that lake, walk in the sands, great for instability in your ankles, your joints, your hips. And I would just do that kind of stuff, even ride a jet ski. I was riding a jet ski in June.

• 42:03Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 42:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, taking it easy and not doing anything nuts, but it's like, you know, just live in life. You know how good that is for your mental acuity, your your spirit, your emotional body and all that stuff. So I was out in the sunshine, getting vitamin D, I was in, you know, nature, I was with friends, I could do life stuff. Like I'm I'm back in life stuff, you know. Now, that's a great confidence builder.

• 42:24Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 42:25Speaker 01

  So I kept trying to do those things. And then, of course, I have to go back into all the recovery stuff and, you know, that I always do, but.

• 42:33Speaker 01

  Just happy I can do it.

• 42:34Joe Rogan?

  What does the cold water feel like with like, I mean, you have a rod through your, your tibia?

• 42:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, the cold water is, it's, that's not the issue. It's when it's cold weather.

• 42:44Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 42:45Speaker 01

  Like, like anybody, it's, it's your, it, you're stiffer, your, your blood slows and all that stuff. So it doesn't help us. I need circulation in my joints. Tendons don't get a lot of blood flow. I really gotta work at getting blood flow in these joints. Otherwise, they'll stiffen. And it, I'm just slower going. It's, everything just feels a little bit more robotic.

• 43:06Joe Rogan?

  What did they have to do to your?

• 43:07Speaker 01

  And before injury, it's that for anybody, right? Also elevation. I mean, eight thousand feet elevation in Tahoe, so all those things aren't really kinda helping to my recovery. But my body will respond in those oxygen depleted environments and all that stuff. So maybe it did help, maybe it didn't, I don't know. But I did most of my initial recovery in LA. And then when I could, I got out to Tahoe to be in my sort of happy place in, in nature.

• 43:31Joe Rogan?

  Did they have to reconstruct your knees? Did you?

• 43:34Speaker 01

  No, no, none of that. They, they, they, there was cracks in my ankles. And it, my foot spun around a handful of times. There was a spiral fracture in my, my leg. So they had to hit a rod down into my knee and they had to screw it, screw it, you know, with plates and all that stuff. So I didn't sure I'd just move those things. So I don't know, there's not, wasn't full of like reconstruction. Like people get a new knee or a new hip. It was just a lot of breaks. My pelvic broke, broke in three spots, my hips, you know, but you don't fix that. They even said, you broke your asshole. I'm like, that, is that what you say as a doctor? Is that how you say it? Come on.

• 44:14Joe Rogan?

  That's hilarious.

• 44:15Speaker 01

  I think there's another word for it.

• 44:20Speaker 01

  I think he was trying to make me laugh, and I did.

• 44:24Speaker 01

  And Eric makes you laugh. He's like, you broke everything, Jeremy. You even broke your ass. I'm like, alright, that's great.

• 44:30Joe Rogan?

  Wow. And so what, so you, you've gone through the 12 hour, now you're in like this 12 hour a day recovery?

• 44:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, so that summer, that summertime, yeah. So I gotta do like, just life stuff. And that was, that was, that was really my first shot at.

• 44:50Speaker 01

  Allowing myself to think that there's a future and I'm not going to live a life of full-time recovery for the rest of my life. It's like, oh, I can actually go do it some other things that I enjoy doing with people in a kind of a normal way. So I was without a cane, without anything by the time by June and summer came around. So I'm moving around.

• 45:09Joe Rogan?

  That's pretty.

• 45:10Speaker 01

  I'm moving around with, you know, inflammation and getting downstairs very slowly, but as you would, as long as you're patient, as I was, as aggressive I was with my recovery, I allowed patients to also live with that aggressive attack on each joint or each inflammation or wherever it was. I do allow patients and because I allow myself to push hard, hard, hard, hard. I listen to my body. Body says fuck off. I'm like, all right, I'll chill out for a second and then, you know, keep going. So, but I gotta live life and that was so, so rewarding to my spirit and my confidence, which, you know, you need in that, in that kind of, those kind of dire times and I keep going. And then, like I

• 45:52Speaker 01

  said, when we got to back, getting back to work, because I got so ready, maybe I'm down to like four hours a day of recovery by the end of that first year. I'm like, I'm gonna go back to work. I need to get back out into the world and use life as my recovery and still only spend four hours a day on hyperbaric chamber, red light, whatever the heck I could do to, I mix it all up. It's a bunch of different stuff. A lot of heat, a lot of vibration, power plate stuff. That was really great for numbing the nerve endings, my back of my knees, back of my ankles, that kind of stuff. I don't know if you ever used that stuff for.

• 46:27Joe Rogan?

  No, like what are you, what are you doing? I used to have this thing, God, what was it called? It was a thing you stand on. It's like it would shake you.

• 46:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 46:36Joe Rogan?

  Vibrations.

• 46:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 46:38Joe Rogan?

  And it would slow it down.

• 46:39Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 46:40Joe Rogan?

  Make it fast.

• 46:41Speaker 01

  It's like that. Yeah. And that really was great for numbing like the back of my knees, that really still ache and back of my ankles. Just so it's not quite so sensitive. I don't know if it floods the the nerve endings with blood or whatever the heck it does, but it just kinda numbs it out and I can go to sleep on it. It's great. It's beautiful.

• 46:58Joe Rogan?

  I used to have one of those at my house in L.A. I don't even remember what it's called now. It was just some machine. It had a bunch of different programs.

• 47:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. It's power plate. It's probably a power plate.

• 47:06Joe Rogan?

  Well, power plate, I think, is the one that you work out on.

• 47:09Speaker 01

  You can. Yeah, yeah.

• 47:10Joe Rogan?

  This one was a little different. This one was just, it would just shake you at a bunch of different frequencies.

• 47:16Speaker 01

  Oh, interesting.

• 47:17Joe Rogan?

  You would stand on it and it was supposed to just do a bunch of stuff for your your hormones and endocrine system and all sorts of different stuff, just by the vibration.

• 47:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it helps me a lot.

• 47:31Joe Rogan?

  Interesting.

• 47:32Speaker 01

  For sure.

• 47:33Joe Rogan?

  And, um, are you doing sauna and stuff like that as well?

• 47:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I use, I usually use just the red light bed. It's shaped like a coffin or like a channing bed one. Yeah, it's just as effective, I think, as you're going to the sauna. It just doesn't take so long to heat up or anything. Just get in that thing and cook. It's amazing. And it's amazing that even like an LED light like that or infrared light could could warm you up so much, but it's intense. I love it.

• 48:02Joe Rogan?

  And then after a while, do you start lifting weights?

• 48:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. I started, I started training as soon as I got the, when I started doing blood work because my hormone, my testosterone was at 200, my hemoglobin was at 2, everything was.

• 48:16Joe Rogan?

  Your body's just wrecked.

• 48:17Speaker 01

  Oh, it's wrecked. And I'm going back to work. So I had to attack why I was falling asleep during workouts that I'm trying to do or whatever. I'm sorry, they only scheduled me maybe six hours a day on set because, you know, I fall asleep in the middle of a scene.

• 48:33Joe Rogan?

  Oh, my God.

• 48:33Speaker 01

  They're like, who's gonna wake that fucker up?

• 48:38Speaker 01

  Oh, man. So, yeah, so I had to really work on that. And once I got, I think it was really the testosterone. Once I got that level to like 700, 800 constantly, then I had more energy. And that allowed me more energy in the gym. And once I had that, that got me more energy. So it just started feeding upon itself. I was doing blood, blood panels every week. And I just saw progress, progress, progress, and then I just started lifting and I had so much energy and I felt better the more I lifted and moved and stretched and it just kept compiling, just like most things in life and it got easier, like most things. With oxygen chamber, that's better when you compile on it, same with red light stuff. Nothing, no one time at anything is gonna do anything, but if you do it often enough

• 49:21Speaker 01

  and make it a central part of your life, it's like, oh, I was on fire, it's great, I started running and.

• 49:25Joe Rogan?

  You can run now?

• 49:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 49:27Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 49:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:28Joe Rogan?

  For distance?

• 49:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, I don't know where I'm running to, I was never a distance guy, I was always a sprinter, right, I was a sprinter from high school and college and, um, yeah, so.

• 49:39Joe Rogan?

  Does it hurt when you run?

• 49:41Speaker 01

  It, it feels like, if you're, if you have, you know, if you've ever been in a car and you're on the freeway and it has a misalignment or it's a little shaky?

• 49:51Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 49:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, or you got a flat tire, it feels like I got four flat tires when I'm running. It looks great, it looks like, oh, this guy's no problem with this guy, just boop, boop, boop, boop, boop, and it feels like the wheels are gonna fall off.

• 50:03Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 50:03Speaker 01

  Mentally or something, it just, it just feels like it's, because it's like, it's, it's a, it's a lot of pressure to put on all these joints, right? I haven't sprinted really much in a while, I haven't really worked on that, I've been working on other things, you know, blood and cells and that kinda stuff, so, I mean, sprinting is not, you know, what am I doing, what am I gonna do? Sprint? Fifty-four, for god's sakes, you know, maybe like for, you know, like, uh, cause, cause you do stunts in movies and maybe at some point I'll have to sprint, I don't know, or maybe not, maybe just don't do that shit, you know?

• 50:40Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, well, maybe you can though, I mean.

• 50:43Speaker 01

  Sure I can.

• 50:43Joe Rogan?

  I think you can.

• 50:44Speaker 01

  I already have.

• 50:45Joe Rogan?

  I believe it.

• 50:46Speaker 01

  I just don't know if I wanna make that a central part of, you know, the acting experience, maybe I, uh.

• 50:51Joe Rogan?

  Well, that would be an absolutely phenomenal turnaround, to go from where you were to going back to action films.

• 50:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, to go play Hawkeye or something.

• 50:59Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

• 51:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, that'd be, that'd be a good test.

• 51:01Joe Rogan?

  Bourne Identity.

• 51:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's, that's tough, that would be a tough one, that would, that's, I was in excellent shape for that one, that'd be a challenge.

• 51:09Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I would imagine.

• 51:10Speaker 01

  I don't know, do I wanna tax my body? Yeah, I don't know.

• 51:14Joe Rogan?

  Probably should. Is it taxing your body or is it? Just strengthening your body.

• 51:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. How many but how many miles can you get on this stuff, right? Titanium.

• 51:24Joe Rogan?

  I think it's forever. I think it's permanent. I mean, what you everything you have just reinforces the recovery of the bones, right?

• 51:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 51:34Joe Rogan?

  And then and then you just have a plate there that just keeps the bones in order.

• 51:38Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 51:38Joe Rogan?

  And it's essentially.

• 51:39Speaker 01

  All the all the titanium in my body is useless at this point. It did its job and then the bones grown. But so it just stays there now.

• 51:49Joe Rogan?

  Is there an argument that the titanium hinders you at all?

• 51:53Speaker 01

  Oh, well, I mean, it is foreign in foreign metal in your body. You're not it's not rejecting it, but there is a point where it could. You know, just like allergies, you know, there's sometimes you don't get allergies sometimes for forty years in your life and all of a sudden I'm allergic to down. It could reject it. Who knows? You never know.

• 52:13Speaker 01

  I I'll cross that bridge. I'm worried about today. I'm here with you. I'll worry about that shit later.

• 52:18Joe Rogan?

  It's just so impressive.

• 52:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, it really is.

• 52:20Joe Rogan?

  It really is amazing.

• 52:21Speaker 01

  Yeah. It's it, yeah.

• 52:23Joe Rogan?

  Because at any other time in history, you're dead.

• 52:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 52:26Joe Rogan?

  Any other time in history, twenty years ago, you're dead.

• 52:28Speaker 01

  Goner.

• 52:28Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 52:29Speaker 01

  You're a goner.

• 52:29Joe Rogan?

  Twenty years ago.

• 52:31Speaker 01

  It's insane, right?

• 52:31Joe Rogan?

  It's amazing. It's amazing.

• 52:33Speaker 01

  What a what a great blessing to have. All those people that even like the the E M Ts and all the people that were there, the life-saving stuff that did all this stuff that they had to do, man, there's so much.

• 52:45Speaker 01

  You know, and I'm really known in that community, especially in the E M Ts and all that sort of stuff. I have a lot of firefighter friends and all that stuff. So it's just like a there. You know, you're just getting a little extra juice and love from these people. You know, like I knew. One of my best friends is a firefighter in that area, Jesse, and he's just retired. He got the phone call from his buddy who had to like stab my chest and release the pressure from the lung and da da da like on the ice. I'm like, and he's the one that says, look, dude, Jesse, Jeremy's is in. We did the best we could, dude. You don't want to get to hospital.

• 53:17Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 53:17Speaker 01

  And that's like code for like.

• 53:19Joe Rogan?

  He might be gone.

• 53:20Speaker 01

  He's gone. He's gone. Yeah, yeah. But. I mean, you but they're like, you know. I talked to them all later. I saw every nurse. I saw every doctor, went by every E N T, even the pilot that flew me up there and just had to give everyone the biggest squeeze and apologize if I was a pain in the ass or whatever it was, man.

• 53:40Speaker 01

  It's that, uh, reminds me of just why I'm back anyway and what the only thing that you take with you is love, man.

• 53:47Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. The beginning of the audiobook is your daughter.

• 53:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. That was the one I had the hardest time with.

• 53:54Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 53:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:56Joe Rogan?

  Cause it's...

• 53:57Speaker 01

  Can you imagine?

• 53:59Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I can't imagine, you know?

• 54:02Speaker 01

  Dude.

• 54:04Joe Rogan?

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• 54:46Joe Rogan?

  The Visible plan starts at just $25 a month. Or get the premium Visible Plus Pro Plan and save $10 on your first month with promo code ROGEN. Terms apply. See visible.com for plan features and network management details. This episode is brought to you by ZipRecruiter. Believe it or not, the holiday season is here again, and that means you might need to fill some seasonal roles. Fast. Maybe you need extra cashiers or stockers, or maybe something more unique like a lead elf, or an expert gift wrapper, or a Zamboni driver. Whoever you're looking for, whatever skills you need to power through the rest of the year, ZipRecruiter is one of the best places to start your search.

• 55:31Joe Rogan?

  Because you can try it for free at ziprecruiter.com/rogen. And because ZipRecruiter helps sort through thousands of resumes and applications, showing you the most qualified and interesting ones first. There's even an option for candidates to explain why they want the job. Let ZipRecruiter find the right people for your roles, seasonal or otherwise. Try it for free today at ziprecruiter.com/rogen. That's ziprecruiter.com/rogen. Meet your match on ZipRecruiter. Does this, I mean, it must forever change your perspective on life because you've crossed back.

• 56:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. Well, it just made it easier. It's, it's, it's ripped away all the white noise, things I gave credence to, things I gave value to, it's fucking meaningless.

• 56:25Joe Rogan?

  Bullshit.

• 56:26Speaker 01

  Bullshit.

• 56:26Joe Rogan?

  All the bullshit.

• 56:27Speaker 01

  Bullshit is gone.

• 56:28Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 56:29Speaker 01

  And I just don't, sadly, I'm in

• 56:33Speaker 01

  spinning rock, you know, people and capitalism and stuff with things to say, I just don't, I just feel like I belong. But I do. I just, a lot of times I just don't feel like I fit into

• 56:48Speaker 01

  a certain, how things, how things work or seem to work down here, or, yeah, I just, I just, I just don't do things I, I don't give, give value to. I only do things that are valuable in my life. That's it. That is it. I do nothing else.

• 57:01Joe Rogan?

  It is amazing how much time and energy people put into things that ultimately at the end of the life, they're not valuable. They don't mean anything and they occupy most of your thinking.

• 57:12Speaker 01

  That's right, or even your time, or like your career.

• 57:14Joe Rogan?

  Uh huh.

• 57:15Speaker 01

  Right? A lot of people do careers that they fucking hate.

• 57:18Joe Rogan?

  Yep.

• 57:19Speaker 01

  Or they're in a marriage they fucking despise, you know, all this stuff, you're spending too much time doing what? Why, why, why? Cause of fear, cause of fear, get trapped and it's too difficult to get out and, you know, they get too deep and buried into just some place that they get, I don't know, paint themselves on a corner, you know, it's, it's quite sad.

• 57:37Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 57:37Speaker 01

  You know?

• 57:39Joe Rogan?

  It is sad, but it's also,

• 57:43Joe Rogan?

  I mean, there's an amazing example that you, you can shine to the rest of the world that maybe people don't have to go through what you went through to realize that most of what you're thinking about all day, especially if you're one of those people that's wrapped up in social media. Most of the things you're thinking about all day are just nonsense.

• 58:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 58:05Joe Rogan?

  Just total nonsense that's stealing your life.

• 58:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, I mean, it's one of the reasons why I wrote the book is I hope there's things that um that I learned and the gifts that I received from from passing and coming back and overcoming, you know, huge obstacles and a lot of a lot of people can identify with suffering and struggle. Um, doesn't have to be a physical struggle, but you know, there's it's a certain way to think and perspective that to work your way through it. Yeah. Cause it is a lonely lonely place and I think there's something beautiful about the narrative of an author to a reader. Or even just audio, which is even more intense, cause you get the nine one one call and it's kind of dramatic in that sense, but like it's it's pretty intimate. And you can, I think you can really move the needle for somebody.

• 58:49Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 58:49Speaker 01

  The more open and honest and vulnerable I am in sharing the narrative, the maybe more I have a chance at connecting with the reader or listener.

• 58:58Joe Rogan?

  No doubt.

• 58:59Speaker 01

  You know.

• 58:59Joe Rogan?

  There's the thing is about when when you're in the middle of a struggle, it never seems like you're gonna get out of it.

• 59:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 59:05Joe Rogan?

  And you're trapped.

• 59:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 59:06Joe Rogan?

  You feel and it's so difficult for people to trust the process or to trust that it will get better. And this is unfortunately why a lot of people end their lives, cause they do not think it's going to get better. And the you you hear it from so many people that almost took their life or failed when they tried to take their life. And now realize, oh my God, I was so wrong. It does get better. I am better. Everything's better. And I just didn't see the light. I didn't see the light at the end of the tunnel. I thought there was there's just nothing but this feeling that I couldn't endure.

• 59:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, that hopelessness, oh, that's that weighs heavy, doesn't it?

• 59:46Speaker 01

  You can't afford that. You can't, you can't give that power. You can't give that power. You can't.

• 59:52Joe Rogan?

  It's just.

• 59:52Speaker 01

  I think anybody can sink into that, right?

• 59:54Joe Rogan?

  Anybody can sink into that. Anybody could sink into that. It's just so hard for people that have never gone through something before. If your life has been really easy.

• 1:00:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:00:02Joe Rogan?

  And then all of a sudden you're tasked with one of the most difficult burdens ever. Overcoming the fear and the the the the the feeling of wanting to end life. Because you can't. Take it.

• 1:00:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, I've been there. I mean, Jesus.

• 1:00:20Speaker 01

  I, well, look, I think people need to suffer.

• 1:00:25Speaker 01

  It is an actual requirement of life. And this is the fiber, the DNA of love. Real love and true love and in perpetuity can't exist without suffering. It's impossible.

• 1:00:40Joe Rogan?

  But you don't appreciate it.

• 1:00:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's, you have to have suffering. And suffering doesn't have to be looked at as a negative thing. It could be looked at as a beautiful thing. It's where real love comes out of.

• 1:00:50Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:51Speaker 01

  You know, all my suffering, there was real love in there. Everyone around me, just in this recovery. Or in a loss I may have had from an uncle or a grandparent or whatever, you know, there's, there's real love that comes in that suffering, you know, even though it can be a lonely experience. I mean, I look at it that way and not as a negative, terrible thing because it's just temporary.

• 1:01:14Joe Rogan?

  And it's counterintuitive, though.

• 1:01:16Speaker 01

  What's that?

• 1:01:16Joe Rogan?

  It's counterintuitive.

• 1:01:17Speaker 01

  In a negative term of it, right? But we all have to suffer, right? I mean, it's part of the human experience, right? It's the Joe Rogan experience.

• 1:01:28Speaker 01

  I'm not suffering, I'm having a great time with you. But, you know, I don't think people welcome that or allow that to happen in their lives and let it be okay. That the suffering, that we suffer like that at the hard times are the building blocks to our, to who we are.

• 1:01:42Joe Rogan?

  It builds resilience.

• 1:01:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:01:43Joe Rogan?

  Builds character.

• 1:01:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:01:44Joe Rogan?

  Builds all those things.

• 1:01:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:01:46Joe Rogan?

  I remember one time, I mean, this is a minor suffering in comparison. But one time I went on this hunting trip on Prince of Wales Island, which rains like 350 days a year. And so we were up there for a week just getting drenched. And, you know, you're camping, so you're in a tent. And you think, oh, well, I'll be dry in the tent. And you're not dry in the tent. There's no dry, there's no such thing as dry. I remember I turned my headlamp on in the tent once because I had to pee. And I was gonna step out of the tent to go to the bathroom in the rain. And when I pressed the headlamp inside my tent, all I saw inside the tent was water vapor. It was just filled with moisture. There was just water dot, like droplets, all flying around inside the tent.

• 1:02:31Joe Rogan?

  I'm like, oh, my God, you're never gonna be dry. There's no dry. And, you know, it was just miserable, but fun. I was with good friends and we had a good time. Then I came back to LA. Uh, you know, a week later, and I remember I called my friend Steve Rinella, I called because he's the one who took me on the trip. And I said, dude, it's sunny out and I've never appreciated the sun like this before.

• 1:02:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:02:53Joe Rogan?

  I've, I'm, I'm like, I'm at a level of happiness that I don't think I've ever felt before. I was just sitting outside with my eyes closed, just taking the sun. It was wonderful.

• 1:03:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:03:03Joe Rogan?

  LA is always sunny.

• 1:03:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:03:05Joe Rogan?

  You get so used to it.

• 1:03:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:03:07Joe Rogan?

  It's like you're a trust fund kid, you know, like who can't appreciate money.

• 1:03:11Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:03:11Joe Rogan?

  Because you've always had it, doesn't mean anything to you. But now all of a sudden going, just being drenched for seven days and being in that sun, I was like, ah. And then it made me realize like, oh, you need to suffer. You need to suffer, you're never gonna appreciate this life.

• 1:03:26Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:03:26Joe Rogan?

  And either you voluntarily suffer, or you will suffer involuntarily because life, regular life will make you suffer.

• 1:03:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, very true. It's, it's, it's not, it seems sort of, um, anti-human to want to do something to make yourself suffer, right? It doesn't seem very sort of characteristics of, you know, we always want to take the fastest route to get somewhere.

• 1:03:46Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:46Speaker 01

  The easiest, you know, it's just innate in kind of human nature to, to do that sadly. And it doesn't, and it, that, that leads to a life of complacency and mediocrity.

• 1:03:56Joe Rogan?

  Well, if you look at life today, and if you look at society today, we have unprecedented levels of depression and unprecedented levels of anxiety and unhappiness, yet it's probably the safest time ever. And it's probably the easiest time ever. It's so easy that poor people are fat. That's how easy it is. Like, that's never been the case. All throughout history, poor people were starving.

• 1:04:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:04:23Joe Rogan?

  And poor people are fat now. Like, that's how easy it is to live, just to exist. So, I mean, not, not saying that being poor is easy. It's certainly not. This is certainly a struggle. But it's way easier than starving to death. Like, this is like an unprecedented easy time. And because of that, and because there's this narrative that people have to constantly seek comfort, to seek vacation and relaxation and retirement and all that bullshit. And so that's in your head and there's this softness to existence. And so everything that comes your way is overwhelming. Somebody said this once, and it's like a great quote that I remember.

• 1:05:04Joe Rogan?

  The worst thing that's ever happened to you is the worst thing that's ever happened to you, regardless of how small that is. So if the worst thing that's ever happened to you is like, I remember, uh, my girlfriend broke up with me when I was eighteen and I was like, oh. I couldn't believe it. I thought I was gonna be with her forever. I was so sad. And then I think back like, oh my God, that was the best thing that ever happened. She was a nightmare. But back then I thought, I was probably a nightmare too. But back then I thought like life was over, right? But you have to get through that in order to appreciate life, to really appreciate life, but. We have this bizarre narrative in our head that you shouldn't suffer.

• 1:05:44Speaker 01

  I know. Uh, where, where does that come from?

• 1:05:46Joe Rogan?

  I can't, well, because it used to be so difficult to live. Cause, and so you would try to find a time where it wasn't difficult. And so then it became the thing that everybody focused on, focused on chilling, relaxing. You know, and the people that I know that don't do anything and don't take any chances and don't take any risks and don't exercise and just seek comfort. Are the most miserable, anxiety ridden people I know.

• 1:06:10Speaker 01

  Well, that's, yeah, they're pretty much dead inside, right? Complacency and it's, that's the definition of complacency.

• 1:06:16Joe Rogan?

  But again, it's counterintuitive, right? Comfort is easy, it's relaxing, it's nice. But it's only relaxing if you've earned it.

• 1:06:25Joe Rogan?

  You've gotta get through something in order to appreciate just chilling on the couch.

• 1:06:29Speaker 01

  Yep. Yeah. So that's why I always do, I, I have to fight my, have to trick my own behavior. And to doing things I don't wanna do all the time. If I don't wanna do it, I'm like, oh, I'm going to do it. Don't even think about it. Just go do it. Cause I know the lazy mind just wants to like, oh yeah, this, let me just, let me skip the gym today, or let me not do PT today, or. Whatever the heck it is, and I, I don't wanna get poked and prodded. No, just do it, just go do it, right? The thing you don't wanna do is the thing you probably should be doing.

• 1:06:58Joe Rogan?

  Almost always.

• 1:06:59Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I, that's why I pretty much always just do that. It, it gets me out of my way, out of complacency, uh, just like laziness, I just, it, it doesn't exist because I do the opposite.

• 1:07:12Speaker 01

  And that's why I'm so full of joy, dude. I'm, I'm so happy. I've never been happier, more connected to humans, more connected to my daughter. More connected to myself, more centered in my, in spirit. Where I am right now, where I'll go, where I'll be, where I always am and always have been. It's beautiful, man.

• 1:07:32Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:32Speaker 01

  Beautiful.

• 1:07:33Joe Rogan?

  You gotta conquer your inner bitch.

• 1:07:35Speaker 01

  You do, man.

• 1:07:36Joe Rogan?

  That's what it is. There's an inner bitch inside of everyone. It's like, oh, let's just do nothing. You gotta go shut the fuck up. You have to have like two minds.

• 1:07:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, you gotta surround yourself with others too that can inspire you too, right? So then you do things as, even as you and I go work out, do something, it's a lot easier than going to the gym by yourself, right? You try to create, because we are social creatures, so let's do things that, like I'm doing, like I'm building a whole rehab, recovery center at my house, like, well, maybe I can open this to the public and like, make this a communal, cool thing so everyone has access to this stuff. And I'm still considering doing that, but like, just make it a, a, a place to, to be and hang so it's, everyone can do it and, I'm not, it's not just me.

• 1:08:21Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:08:22Speaker 01

  Right, separating myself from other people, whatever it might be in my life, there's, there's, I try to find ways to make it a communal thing. So it just makes it easier to, to continue this in perpetuity.

• 1:08:33Joe Rogan?

  That's another counterintuitive thing. It's like you have to understand how important community is. It's like a vitamin.

• 1:08:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, big time.

• 1:08:39Joe Rogan?

  It really is.

• 1:08:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, that's a shared experience too that comes with that, negative or positive, in the tent with your friends. And if you're alone in doing that, right, it's, fuck, you have no one to share that misery with. But at least you did, you shared that experience with somebody, like, dude, I never thought I loved the sun so much. Remember we were fucking eating ass, sucking on the rainwater in that tent? You know, but it's like even a negative experience can be, but it's shared, it's still quite beautiful. And it's a, it's a map, a milestone, a part of your life that uses barometer to change your, or appreciate the sun more, or whatever it might be, right? And so those shared experiences, I think, were invaluable. It's the only thing I chase in my life is that.

• 1:09:18Joe Rogan?

  For people that ever want to start a fire, when it's, everything's wet, Fritos. You know, little Fritos, little bags of Fritos?

• 1:09:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:09:27Joe Rogan?

  Those little motherfuckers are so toxic, that if you light those things, they're like little fire starters.

• 1:09:33Speaker 01

  No way.

• 1:09:34Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, man, Fritos are crazy flammable. They stay lit for a long ass time, because they're just soaked with oil.

• 1:09:41Speaker 01

  Oil, yeah.

• 1:09:42Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, like whatever oil, whatever horrible fucking seed oil, whatever fucking industrial lubricant those fucking things are made out of. But when you light that, they're essentially some sort of a corn byproduct and oil.

• 1:09:53Speaker 01

  Oh, right, right.

• 1:09:54Joe Rogan?

  And so if you light those fuckers on fire and then you get some semi-dry sticks and light them, light those, and we started one fire one day, because one day it didn't rain. So that one day it didn't rain, me and my friend Brian Callen, we were determined to start a fire. And so we just found like the driest possible, well, nothing was dry, but driest possible sticks and twigs and started it and then dried some logs out and it was, they were hissing and steam was coming off them as we were lighting it, but Fritos.

• 1:10:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:10:24Joe Rogan?

  Fritos are an amazing firestarter.

• 1:10:26Speaker 01

  (laughing).

• 1:10:27Joe Rogan?

  Kinda crazy.

• 1:10:28Speaker 01

  That's crazy.

• 1:10:29Joe Rogan?

  Makes you think about eating though.

• 1:10:30Speaker 01

  I was just gonna say, you guys about to eat this shit?

• 1:10:33Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Which brings me to another question, like, how much did you alter your diet after all this? Because you would imagine like, anything that causes inflammation, it then becomes an issue.

• 1:10:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, I didn't go down so much that route. I'm always eating pretty good. Um, I didn't, it didn't go into like, things that, I haven't gone into that, even yet, to like, oh, what causes inflammation? What, what, what am I eating that does that? I, I haven't really gotten that far into it yet. I'm still, I'm sure I will, but, or, and there was a doctor that also helped me eat stuff and I have people cook, prepare some certain things for me, but I don't, couldn't tell you what causes inflammation that I put in my mouth. Um, could not. I mean, maybe if I have wine, probably does.

• 1:11:15Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, a little bit, yeah, alcohol does for sure.

• 1:11:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. Um, but I, again, I don't do, I, I really am good at moderating all things, all things good and bad. So, um, my body has a chance to sort of exist and it's not forced, too many supplements, too many peptides, too many, too many, anything.

• 1:11:35Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:11:35Speaker 01

  All, all good stuff, I sort of just moderate.

• 1:11:37Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:11:40Speaker 01

  Once I got my blood right, because I was like 205 pounds, I'd never been more than a buck sixty-five. And it's just all this surgery weight and all this stuff and it's hard to get off when you have a

• 1:11:50Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:11:51Speaker 01

  Your hemoglobin's too.

• 1:11:52Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:11:53Speaker 01

  And just had no energy, so.

• 1:11:54Joe Rogan?

  Also, you probably have to eat a lot too, because your body needs calories in order to help you.

• 1:11:59Speaker 01

  That, that and yeah, it's good proteins too.

• 1:12:01Joe Rogan?

  Protein.

• 1:12:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, and also it's difficult to eat because again, my molars got pushed in, it's hard to chew. I look fine, but to chew on a steak and asparagus thing, it's like this tough. It's tough for me to get through.

• 1:12:11Joe Rogan?

  Still to this day or no?

• 1:12:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, it'll be forever, I can't fix it. If I start to move those molars again, they'll probably fall out.

• 1:12:18Joe Rogan?

  Oh, wow.

• 1:12:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I'd rather keep them. And it'd just be uncomfortable.

• 1:12:23Joe Rogan?

  So they just, they got pushed in?

• 1:12:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, this side, um, yeah, it's usually sort of like just like an arc to your thing, so my bite just kind of arcs and then goes straight back.

• 1:12:32Joe Rogan?

  Oh, wow.

• 1:12:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, all these got pushed in and broke, broke the jaw three times here, so. And then in just breaking the jaw, it doesn't ever really heal right. So biting down is quite, it's annoying, it's, it's full chaos on my mouth, but I don't bitch about it, I just sort of accept what it is and.

• 1:12:48Joe Rogan?

  It could have been so much worse.

• 1:12:49Speaker 01

  Could have been so, I have all my teeth, I have a smile, it's great.

• 1:12:51Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:52Speaker 01

  You know, I feel great and, and I'm walking and breathing and I have love and joy in my life, so. You know, who cares about what happens to my mouth, man?

• 1:13:00Joe Rogan?

  Right, right. Yeah, no, that's, it's. This episode is brought to you by LifeLock. Scams have gotten smarter because criminals use AI to flood you with fake texts, emails, and phone calls that are designed to be more convincing than ever. One wrong click could put your personal information and your identity at risk. So protect yourself with LifeLock. LifeLock helps detect and alert you to threats. And if your identity is stolen, LifeLock will step in to fix it, guaranteed or your money back. Dedicated, US-based, identity restoration specialists will work with you until your identity is restored.

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• 1:14:32Joe Rogan?

  It's really kind of an amazing story and it's, it's just amazing how these stories can be so inspirational for other people too. Which is why I'm really glad you wrote your book because these stories, they're like autobiographies, especially of people that you admire, that you've seen in movies before. It's like those, those struggles, they're so real. And when someone's going through something themselves and they can turn to your book, it can give them a lot. It's fuel for people. It really is.

• 1:15:00Speaker 01

  Yeah. And for me as well, I mean, I resisted writing it because I still don't know how or why it can and will inspire people. I can only make assumptions and I think it's so particular to the actual reader and the person. But so I can never sort of pontificate on how or why it's important or not. But it is like, it was an achievement for me to get through it word by word.

• 1:15:23Speaker 01

  That I didn't want to do, to relive it. And then, because it's in my body and I talk about it all the time. It is, it is a part of my narrative, is a part of my life. It's just recovery is just, it's just my life and I love it. I enjoy it. I feel better, I look better and all that stuff. But it's like the book now is a tangible sort of, this is, this is a great dialogue that we'll have as long as we want. But it's just a dialogue that exists. But now this is a tangible object with words, the words don't change, they stay there.

• 1:15:52Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:15:52Speaker 01

  Like a tablet and something kinda interesting about that is like a milestone or a tangible thing that now it exists in the world.

• 1:15:59Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:15:59Speaker 01

  And psychologically that says a lot to me, so like even when I do die, that's still there, so that maybe it can help somebody even when I can't be there to talk with them or whatever it might be or even exist, right?

• 1:16:12Joe Rogan?

  Right, it'll exist long after you're gone.

• 1:16:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's pretty, it's pretty interesting, cause I do movies and things like that or music, those are like the same thing as a conversation, they just sort of exist in the moment.

• 1:16:21Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:16:22Speaker 01

  Like, you know, it's great going to a concert, but then it's over.

• 1:16:25Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:16:25Speaker 01

  And then that's it. Well, what happened? Well, I could tell you about the concert, but something about something existing beyond your, your, your life is something pretty interesting.

• 1:16:34Joe Rogan?

  What was the process like of writing? Did you physically sit down and write things? Did you?

• 1:16:39Speaker 01

  Initially, initially, I, I have a, a ghostwriter who helped me, cause I've never written a book. Um, I've, I've written a lot, but I've never written a book. It says, so I wanted to get the format right. And so we would work through this format, it's almost like an outline, and then so we'd just do interview by each of the sections of this outline that we put out. And so then we would just talk like this, and they'd tell us, let's talk about this thing, take me moment by moment in the accident. I'm like, alright, let's do that. And we'd meet every day for like two, three hours, however long I could sustain going word by word on it. And we recorded all the things and I would write on my own, cause it would kick up new memories and started writing about the Lamaze thing and, oh gosh, that came up and then me,

• 1:17:20Speaker 01

  that became a whole chapter in the book, uh, about breathing, breathing, my, my, my awareness to breathing and how it became so important in my life. Um, anyway, so I just kept going and writing and writing and writing and then I would do talks to, to companies, I would speak to kids at schools. I would, all this was part of the writing experience, cause you can ask me the same question and then, but we're in this environment. But then if I'm with my family and I tell the same, answer the same question, it's a different. It's the same kind of answer but different. So I kept learning more and more. Data and information was stored in my brain, in my heart, in my spirit. And I had to unearth it and put it down into words, which is, which I found to be the most difficult thing.

• 1:18:02Speaker 01

  Because as we speak, like I'm doing now, it's, it's, it's, it's free to speak as whatever you want. But to write down the words, oh wait, there's accountability to the words because they're written. And you didn't have more, you have more word choice. My brain doesn't operate as fast as I'd, I'd like to for my vocabulary. I'd probably drop way too many F bombs instead of like really great words that I do know.

• 1:18:22Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:18:23Speaker 01

  You know, so it was nice to be able to take the time and spend the agony to really kind of express word by word through it, you know, in a, in a very real honest way. It's like, it's more like a, like a diary, a recounting diary than it was trying to be fancy with words and over complicate something that's really quite so simple.

• 1:18:47Joe Rogan?

  What was the process like of going over the words and deciding what to keep and what to edit out? And how to, how to format everything and what, what order to talk about things in?

• 1:18:59Speaker 01

  The, the order always was working for me from the beginning. It allowed for flexibility for what would come up in conversations, in, in the writing. It allowed for fluidity, but there's a beginning, middle and end to this. We already knew the end, or I knew the beginning. And so it, it was, it was the branches off of, I didn't know I was going to talk about Lamaze in this book. Didn't know that was a huge milestone in my life. That got me to understand what conscious breathing was and mitigate pain. Because there's this whole thing about Lamaze, I was taken at 12 years old. My mom was pregnant with my sister. And she said, put down the, the cleats, son, you're not going to soccer practice. Just grab a pillow, you're coming with me to.

• 1:19:43Speaker 01

  The class, I'm like, what class? It was Lama's class, the YMCA. And my stepdad was out driving a truck or something. And so my mom, she needed, also needed me not to be alone. And she needed, you know, whatever. So she brought me, the oldest. And I laid there with a pillow between her legs and teaching her how to breathe and short, short breath. And then they pulled down a screen. And they showed this midwife birth at home in a bathtub and squirting out water, this whole thing. Like, what's going on? I'm 12 years old. I'm mortified. Like, what happened? Is that a whale breaching? What was going on? You know, and so that came up in just sort of me and my partner talking about it. And he's like, dude, you don't realize? I'm like, yeah, well, that's why the book's called My Next Breath. You know, it's all about breathing.

• 1:20:28Speaker 01

  And breathing was such an essential part of my recovery, my central part of my, you know, not dying. And to get through each and every moment. The perspective of breath, it is not a conscious thought. It is, right? It's just, it's reflexive in our body. And when we make it a consciousness, when we invest into our breath, what you can do with your mind with your breath. Right? It opens up. Like, the more you breathe, the more you get oxygen in your body. It's just feeding all of it. It feeds you, it only feeds you. Like, yawn, people yawn. And I say the example of like, oh, you're tired. No, you're not tired.

• 1:21:10Speaker 01

  It's your body that you know that you need to breathe, get more oxygen in yourself, right? So it's, you're not tired. You just need more O2. That's all. Your body's making that happen.

• 1:21:18Joe Rogan?

  Isn't it fascinating that everybody breathes? So everybody thinks, oh, breathing, what's the big deal? It's like, have you ever read James Nestor's Breath? Or it's actually Breathe, I guess. But it's an amazing book on breathing techniques and the history of breathing techniques and all the different things that people have achieved with breathing techniques, including holotropic breathing, which achieves psychedelic states of consciousness and all these, you know, different feats of incredible.

• 1:21:51Joe Rogan?

  Physical endurance that people have achieved through breath work. It's a pretty amazing book. And he was a guest of mine on the podcast a few years back. But I read his book and started really getting into it and really trying to practice different breathing exercises. And great, you know, there's a bunch of breathing exercises you can use for anxiety, for overcoming very stressful situations. But when you say that to most people, oh, breathing, they're like, oh, you're one of those guys.

• 1:22:20Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:22:20Joe Rogan?

  You're concentrating on your breathing. What else are you concentrating on? Blinking? You know, it's like, because it's like, you know what I mean?

• 1:22:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:22:27Joe Rogan?

  It's like you can minimalize it.

• 1:22:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:22:29Joe Rogan?

  You could, you can, you have a reductionist perspective where you don't think it's anything big. And especially if you've never practiced it.

• 1:22:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:22:37Joe Rogan?

  But, you know, especially with like yogic breathing, you can achieve some bizarre states of relaxation and consciousness through breathing.

• 1:22:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, big time.

• 1:22:46Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:46Speaker 01

  And you could, you could, I, I always try, whenever I explain it to somebody, it's, I, I just, I say like when I use it. I just think, I don't do it like on a daily basis. I mean, maybe now I do to, um, but it's like, it's, I did it for, like you said, for anxiety. When I was like nervous in an audition. Uh, how do I get out of this situation? Like, I'm not in my body. My heart's going like this. I'm like, I'm not, how do I count it? Read these lines and I hear like Sean Penn in the room. And I'm supposed to go there and be better than this guy. I'm like, oh, I'm freaking out. I'm sweating. So I said, screw this. I leave the room. I go out of the building. I go out into the street. Like on Sunset Boulevard somewhere, find a tree that's rooted in this damn earth. I'm, you know, it might look ridiculous. I don't care.

• 1:23:27Speaker 01

  But the courage to go down on your knees, go by the root, be in this earth, just take some deep, 10 deep breaths. As cars are honking and da, da, on Sunset Boulevard, I don't give a shit. I'm back in my body. I'm back on this earth. Here I am. Let's fucking go. And I went back up in that room and I smashed that audition and da, da, da. I don't remember if I got the role in that, but it doesn't matter. I was back in my body. I was back in, on earth, right? It wasn't like in the state of hysteria or nervousness or that, you know, because I don't like that feeling. So I found a way to overcome that feeling.

• 1:24:00Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:00Speaker 01

  Some people might just live in that feeling all the time. They might like it. I don't know.

• 1:24:03Joe Rogan?

  I don't think they like it.

• 1:24:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:24:05Joe Rogan?

  I don't think anybody likes it. I think the problem is you just get trapped in that feeling and then the mo- Moment, something comes up that's very difficult.

• 1:24:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:24:12Joe Rogan?

  That causes you to spiral again, you just, you lose control.

• 1:24:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:24:18Joe Rogan?

  Terrible. You're out of your head.

• 1:24:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:24:21Joe Rogan?

  It's one of the most difficult things about the, this whole audition process that actors go through is that, you know, there's this golden carrot that's at the end of the stick, and if you do a good job, you might be a fucking movie star. You know what I mean? Which seems impossible, right?

• 1:24:41Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:24:42Joe Rogan?

  I mean, it must have seemed impossible before you pulled it off, right?

• 1:24:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, I know. It's, it's, it was, it was never like something I was ever aiming for, really.

• 1:24:49Joe Rogan?

  What were you aiming for?

• 1:24:50Speaker 01

  Um, truth, in every, in everything I was doing.

• 1:24:54Joe Rogan?

  Truth?

• 1:24:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, honesty, and truth, yeah. Cause if I don't believe it, then how do I expect someone watching me to believe it, you know? I have to ensure that everything I'm doing is truthful and honest, and courageous and bold, and, you know, all the things. So, it was never to try to be a movie star. I just wanted to work, always. I never wanted to be famous.

• 1:25:12Joe Rogan?

  How did you acquire that perspective?

• 1:25:15Speaker 01

  Oh, I don't know. It's, it's, I was clear about what I wanted, very clear about what I wanted. I didn't move down to LA to be famous. I moved to LA to be in a movie, be in a movie that was big enough that would play in Modesto, California, where I'm from. Cause they don't get all the movies there, right?

• 1:25:29Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:25:29Speaker 01

  And being a part in that movie that I wouldn't have to tell my family, you know, I'm the guy in the red shirt waving in the background. It's a part big enough that you would just know, I'm in the movie. Yeah, so, and I got that, all those goals. Uh, and the first job I ever did on camera, in this National Lampoon Senior Trip movie. So, then I had to recalibrate now new goals to, to also get myself, da, da, da, and I was working enough. So, I never, my goals were always to, like, and then I wanted to be, you know, the lead in a, you know, by the time I got like Dahmer and then Hurt Locker and all these kind of stuff, it just kind of made, I was ready for that stuff. But I was like thirty-eight by that time. I was like the new guy in town at thirty-eight.

• 1:26:06Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:26:07Speaker 01

  So.

• 1:26:07Joe Rogan?

  Isn't that crazy?

• 1:26:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, I was just, I was just ready and, you know, I did my journeyman stuff and. Amazing.

• 1:26:13Joe Rogan?

  It's one of the most complex movies about a very bizarre psychological state that people acquire or that people fall into when it comes to war.

• 1:26:27Speaker 01

  Hmm, yeah, yeah.

• 1:26:30Joe Rogan?

  What was it like getting into that mindset?

• 1:26:32Speaker 01

  It's, it was interesting. I got to spend, you know, I was at Fort Irwin for about a year learning how to build bombs and render them safe, you know.

• 1:26:41Joe Rogan?

  For a year?

• 1:26:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. And got to spend time with the guys and gals off, off, off campus, off base. Um, interesting. I love, I love the whole experience, you know, and then got to go shoot the movie and that was on the Iraqi border in Jordan during the war. And, uh, it's a hundred and thirty-five degrees and a hundred pound bomb suit, you know, you're just, it's not even hot anymore. It's just sort of like, you let that go. It's just, you just are. It's kind of a spiritual sort of place you have to go in that kind of, that kind of heat, right? Um, and also you're drinking enough water, like, you know, how am I drinking all this water? You're not even taking a leak and like, oh, I'm so dehydrated, I gotta be careful.

• 1:27:23Speaker 01

  Um, that's, you know, yeah, pretty, pretty interesting, pretty interesting, um, experience, you know?

• 1:27:30Joe Rogan?

  What were the conversations like when you were talking to the people that actually did that?

• 1:27:35Speaker 01

  Well, most of them looked like, you know, school teachers. There's like one, one or two guys that, one guy was like, kind of built like huge, big guy, barn guy. Uh, the rest of them were like, you know, the guy that I know did three tours, he was, he's just, he looks like he's totally out of shape. His stomach is way bigger than his chest. He's just kind of do, do, do, do, do, kind of, this guy did three tours. This guy's no joke. It's all mental. It's all such a mental game because you have to be cool in those high intense situations because you're dealing with one five five explosives that'll blow this building off the block. And, uh,

• 1:28:13Speaker 01

  The the the the level of intensity is really interesting like. They were so comfortable around C four and all these things and blah blah and you gotta be careful these blasting caps and all these things that people were. Getting injured all the time. They got really uncomfortable when I took them to a bar in L A.

• 1:28:30Joe Rogan?

  Why?

• 1:28:30Speaker 01

  We were sitting at the bar and I asked, I'm like, what's going on? It's the it's the big guy. Can't remember his name. He's like, I don't like where we're sitting. Like, why? What do you mean? He's like, I need my back to the wall and you know where the exit's at and da da da, right?

• 1:28:41Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 1:28:42Speaker 01

  And like, interesting, like, cause I sit like that kinda as well. I don't like to have. I don't think it's a trust issue. I just like to kinda, I'd have my back to somewhere I know the exit is, where the bathroom is. I look for the the most dangerous man in the room, the hottest girl in the room, instantly, just do like a like a Terminator checklist.

• 1:28:58Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:28:59Speaker 01

  And that was supported by how these guys thought. And it's that same kinda thing. They just noticed everything. Do do do do do just data. Okay, now I can go be here. I assess the room.

• 1:29:09Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:29:09Speaker 01

  And I feel safe.

• 1:29:10Joe Rogan?

  Situational awareness.

• 1:29:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, situational awareness. I always had that, but like really doing that role and spending so much time with these crew of amazing people. Um, just heightened that for me. The I've always been a quiet and observer and this is where I just got in for me. I could tell you the color of the. The hinges if they matched the finish on the doorknobs and places and it's just that my how my brain works.

• 1:29:31Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 1:29:32Speaker 01

  And.

• 1:29:32Joe Rogan?

  Always.

• 1:29:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. Well, it's also a home builder and designer, so I kinda pay attention to that kinda stuff anyway. Um, but it sorta just kinda helps me out in life, I guess.

• 1:29:43Joe Rogan?

  And so when you were preparing for Hurt Locker, was it your decision to spend a year doing this?

• 1:29:48Speaker 01

  Well, no, it wasn't about the amount of time. I think I was maybe to go for maybe a few months. Catherine Vigllo, the director, um, just sorta introduced me and said, all right, they they're ready for you out at the base if you wanna go. So I kinda went out and. Just kinda did it all on my own and just waiting for the movie to kinda get up and get green and go. Then it just took a little bit longer. I think we're waiting for one of the actors that was doing another job to finish and then we could start.

• 1:30:13Speaker 01

  And then, uh, and then it wasn't an easy independent film to kinda get up and get rolling, but once we did, we were rocking. But yeah, it didn't meant to be like a year, year and a half. It's, she just called me and says, are you ready to go? I'm like, yeah, like, like I'm getting deployed. Like, yeah, let's go. I'm ready. And then I also, like, we didn't even have a, like, an EOD sort of tech on, on the shoot. I had to be the person that, and I'm, I had to call back. I'm like, I don't know. This doesn't look right. They set up these, these one five fives and it's, it's electrical and it should be det cord and all these, all these things that I learned. But I wasn't an expert by any means. I just, I just wanted to make it look authentic in the movie. So I had to call back and call me back. I mean, take a picture of this shit. I don't think it's right. Oh, wow. And, um, yeah, so. Well, that's fortunate that you had so much experience then.

• 1:30:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was great. It was great. Because if there's anything out in that movie, especially for people that actually did that, that takes you out of it. Yeah, you don't, yeah, yeah. And I wouldn't wanna do that, cause we wanted to be very authentic to what we were doing. Uh, we are still making a movie, but let's live in this world. And look, the, the, the narrative is that the characters that live in this bizarre world in a very relevant time, in this war that we're in and, and also the struggles of, you know, soldier in civilian life. And, cause they were civilians and now they became soldiers. They'd be put in prison for life for doing this shit they're getting paid to do now. Right. You know, and that was a wonderful sort of outcome of the movie of how it bridged

• 1:31:41Speaker 01

  that sort of gap or the struggles with PTSD and coming back from this harrowing sort of existence and war. And then coming back and like, like the cereal aisle. Right. That example of like, oh, really? Like, you know, or in the rain and like, you appreciate the sun. It's just, it's just such a polar opposite. And like, this is my existence. And it became such a really, a wonderful sort of.

• 1:32:05Speaker 01

  Starting point for like wives to deal with their husbands that came back like they can you kind of understand a little bit of what they might have gone through just in general like the the broad strokes of how hard it is and then to come back and then like you know change diapers and do the thing you know what I mean it's a that became such a powerful thing in in that narrative that I found after we did it and we're showing it to all the military bases and it's it's always gonna be a special experience in my life and always be connected to a lot of soldiers because of that.

• 1:32:38Joe Rogan?

  Well, it was a really well-done movie and it was the way you could well, there was a thing about that movie that made you think in a way or made me think in a way that I don't think I ever thought before like, oh, I never considered what this transition to civilian life is like after dealing with the unbelievable stress of being in a war zone, defusing bombs, and then wanting to go back.

• 1:33:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:33:08Joe Rogan?

  But it made you understand.

• 1:33:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:33:10Joe Rogan?

  It made you understand like, oh, fuck, he wants to go back like, oh, my god, like watching the movie. When a movie can do that to you, when it can take you into that psychology of the person that would be in that state.

• 1:33:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:33:24Joe Rogan?

  And and make it make sense like that's that was a great movie.

• 1:33:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm just happy to be part of it.

• 1:33:28Joe Rogan?

  It was more than just, you know, it wasn't just a story, it was like you're documenting a very real condition.

• 1:33:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:33:35Joe Rogan?

  That, you know, through art, you put words to these people's existence where they don't, you know, they don't have anybody representing that.

• 1:33:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:33:45Joe Rogan?

  You know.

• 1:33:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's why it means a lot to me and and they let me know it means a lot to them and that's the most special thing like fuck it, the movie part of it, I think it's it's created a dialogue for a lot of broken families or and united families better or like you said, it's a greater understanding of like that difference of soldier civilian life, it's a great bridge for it.

• 1:34:05Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I remember.

• 1:34:06Speaker 01

  I'm very proud of that.

• 1:34:07Joe Rogan?

  I saw it and then I went back to the Comedy Store and I I said, oh, man, we saw Hurt Locker last night and my friend went, dude, and I went, dude, and that was like all we had to say like, fuck, man, it's like that it was that kind of movie that's just like, oh, my god, like, it just gives you anxiety and it also it also just makes you. Like re reflect and and think about what war is. And the and the requirement that you're putting on human beings. To try to get them to transition from this insane chaos back into civilian life with. No real guidance.

• 1:34:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:34:49Joe Rogan?

  Just you figure this out. Now you're now you're back in this in the cereal aisle.

• 1:34:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. We're getting Starbucks, are you?

• 1:34:55Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you're like, ah, yeah.

• 1:34:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's interesting.

• 1:35:00Joe Rogan?

  How do you decide like what roles to pick? When you know, you're at this sort of stage in your life where you're so well known. You know, you people come to you with things and you have to decide whether or not this project is something that resonates with you.

• 1:35:16Speaker 01

  Well, now it's different. Um, you know, the the central part of my life for for so long was my career. And then my daughter came around and then she's number one. So then I would do. The job that would allow me still to be a father because I'm not going to not be a father because my job takes me away for long periods of time. And I'm just not doing that in far places. So I would so I'm not I'm not working out of the country anymore. Once my daughter was born. Uh, so I always had reach and access to my daughter as fast as I needed to be. And then now, after the incident, I it's even tightened up more.

• 1:35:55Speaker 01

  And loosened up more because my daughter is now 12 and she doesn't need me as much. She wants her friends a little bit more. Yeah, that's a little on the tonal pole just temporarily, I know, but um, and also I can I can travel like I just worked last summer on a job. This movie called Knives Out. Um, and then they got I got brought my whole family with me.

• 1:36:16Joe Rogan?

  Knives Out was great.

• 1:36:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's awesome. Yeah. So this is gonna be a really good one, too. But I was able to bring my entire family out, like 15 15 people came out because they a lot of them not will travel and I got to see a lot of Europe. Took my mom and my daughter to the Olympics in in Paris. Dope. Got to spend a couple of weeks in Italy and just kind of celebrate. Yeah, so we can do that kind of stuff now. So I did the job essentially just to have a summer vacation with my family.

• 1:36:38Joe Rogan?

  Oh, nice.

• 1:36:38Speaker 01

  So that's kind of how I decide. And also, I did love the character. I did love, I mean, come on, it's all that has to line in there too. I'm not just gonna do a job for a job. But it just lined up. But my family has to be involved. My daughter has to be involved.

• 1:36:53Speaker 01

  Friends have to be involved. Otherwise, I'm not going to remove myself from all those shared experiences with people in my life, just so I can go do a movie. I don't want to do any movie that bad. So, that's my limitation.

• 1:37:06Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's, that limitation's real success, too. Did you really choose things that you're actually passionate about?

• 1:37:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:37:12Joe Rogan?

  That fit within these parameters and allow you to live your life the way you want to.

• 1:37:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, and work with people that...

• 1:37:17Joe Rogan?

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• 1:37:57Joe Rogan?

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• 1:38:42Joe Rogan?

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• 1:38:51Speaker 01

  Inspire me and I think, you know, I'm just not gonna do a job. Like, you can't pay me. If you could put a trillion dollars in front of me, go do this. You only need you for two weeks. I'm like, eh, it doesn't fit. It doesn't check all the boxes that have real value. The shared experience, the joy with my daughter, my family, my friends, and, you know, then it's just not worth it to me. You know, I don't need to go act... For to do a job. I don't.

• 1:39:14Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:39:15Speaker 01

  You know.

• 1:39:16Joe Rogan?

  You do it because you want to.

• 1:39:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:39:17Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:39:17Speaker 01

  And that's, that's to me what retirement is. I'm doing what I want to do, with who I want to do it with, and I'm still always gonna be busy in work. All my life I'll do that.

• 1:39:26Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:39:26Speaker 01

  But.

• 1:39:27Joe Rogan?

  It's not retirement.

• 1:39:27Speaker 01

  But I'm like, yeah, but it, but it is.

• 1:39:29Joe Rogan?

  It's just a better life.

• 1:39:29Speaker 01

  It's, well, it is in my mind. I'm a busy guy and I like, I like to, I like to, I like to contribute. I'm very busy doing the Renovation Foundation, right? Which is a huge, big, central part of my life, with my family, that runs this, this charitable foundation in my community in Lake Tahoe for foster youth and disadvantaged youth. And giving them opportunities that they don't have, these poor kids. Uh, and that's great. And I love that. I love I get, but is that retirement? Is like, you know, it's, it's gonna keep me busy for, till I die.

• 1:39:57Joe Rogan?

  And that, it's weird that you have to frame things in a turn, like career or retirement. It's really just life. Life and passions.

• 1:40:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. But I don't think a lot of people are doing what they want to do in their life anyway. Um, but yeah, I'd, I'll always, always work, always do the things I love to do, and I'm still continuing to do the things I love to do, just on my own terms. Right? I wouldn't be able to start this foundation if I wasn't living a life on my own terms. I am satiated beyond satiated. I don't need anything. I require a shared experience on this earth, and that is it.

• 1:40:32Joe Rogan?

  Is this more so now, since the accident?

• 1:40:35Speaker 01

  Uh, well, it's always been that, but there's a lot of things in the way, or things I allowed to be in the way, or things I put in the way.

• 1:40:41Joe Rogan?

  Allowed to be in the way.

• 1:40:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, I allowed to be in the way. And now I do not. I refute it, I push it away. I am certainly clear, when I put obstacles on my own way, when I get in my own way, we all do that shit too. But, uh, so I, I'm just very, very, very clear, and I keep, I oversimplify life. Because life is just that simple. If we complicate it, then you're gonna have an overcomplicated life, and it's just not as valuable, I think. I live both.

• 1:41:08Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:41:09Speaker 01

  And the wonderful oversimplification has allowed me to, again, use the word retirement in my mind, I'm just living a life that I want to live.

• 1:41:18Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:41:18Speaker 01

  That I deserve to live, that I choose to live, and not be limited or rabbitholed, or victimized by society, or the country I'm living in, or the neighborhood I'm living in, or the job I have or don't, you know, and just not, I don't have any limitations.

• 1:41:33Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:41:33Speaker 01

  Cause I'm ju, I'm making manifest everything that I have in my life.

• 1:41:39Speaker 01

  And it feels great. And you know, I'm the captain of the ship.

• 1:41:42Joe Rogan?

  That's amazing.

• 1:41:43Speaker 01

  It might take a minute to turn this bitch around, right? But I'm the captain of this damn ship. It's called my life. And I think everybody has a capacity to do so.

• 1:41:50Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's another beautiful thing of living life by example that can inspire people. Cause that's really what people want to do. They wanna live a life where they feel like, this is great. Like, what I'm doing is what I wanna do. They don't, most people, they don't live like that. Most people, they have this dream in the future. One day, I will be able to live the way I want to, but I'm not doing it right now.

• 1:42:13Speaker 01

  Right, right. I think, I think that's a trap. Personally, I think you're doing it already. The journey is there. There's no end result. Besides, yeah.

• 1:42:21Joe Rogan?

  I know, but there's so many narratives that people adhere to. There's so many narratives out there in culture. Where they tell you, you should be doing this and you should be doing that. And this is a concentrate on your 401K and you're this and that. What are your investments?

• 1:42:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:42:42Joe Rogan?

  And you fucking, at the end of the night, you need a pill to go to sleep.

• 1:42:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. I mean, that's, it's even crazier now with the social media and all that, all the.

• 1:42:50Joe Rogan?

  That's poison.

• 1:42:51Speaker 01

  That's just white noise of garbage.

• 1:42:53Joe Rogan?

  I mean, I've been off it lately for like the last few weeks. Where I, I literally just check it when I'm taking a shit and that's it.

• 1:43:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:43:01Joe Rogan?

  I look at, I look to see if there's anything crazy going on in the world, just so I know. Like, what's, what's happening? But I don't ever get involved. I don't ever like argue with people or post things. And I just see people doing it and I'm like, you're losing your fucking mind. And I've had conversations with friends and they're like, you know, you know what, fucking this and that and that and this. I'm like, why? Why are you paying attention? This is like, let's go outside. Look, look at all the birds.

• 1:43:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:43:27Joe Rogan?

  Look at the beautiful, look at the clouds. What a lovely day. Like, you're, you're alive in America in 2025 is like a magical time to be alive. And you're concentrating on some shit that literally has no effect on your life. And you're making it your primary focus. That is the definition of madness.

• 1:43:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, it really is.

• 1:43:47Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you're freaking out about things that aren't even here.

• 1:43:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, that's where you're getting your way. You're giving that value. You don't have to, you know?

• 1:43:53Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:43:55Joe Rogan?

  But you know, it's just like, perspective is a very difficult thing to earn.

• 1:44:00Speaker 01

  It is, it is. Well, right, what, how do we get it? How do we get it? Experience, right?

• 1:44:04Joe Rogan?

  Experience, overcoming adversity, developing character.

• 1:44:08Speaker 01

  Surprising.

• 1:44:09Joe Rogan?

  Shared experience, that's a big part of it, you know, like with people that you love and you're really connect with.

• 1:44:16Speaker 01

  Who you surround yourself with.

• 1:44:18Joe Rogan?

  Yes, that's most of the key to life.

• 1:44:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:44:23Joe Rogan?

  Like, if you surround yourself with really great people, you're forced to become a really great person. It's like you have to keep up with it.

• 1:44:30Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:44:31Joe Rogan?

  This foundation, tell me how you started that?

• 1:44:34Speaker 01

  Initially, started with a show that I produced and put on Disney Plus, which is called Renovations. And it was taking, I didn't like to see a lot of vehicles go to waste. Like, purpose-built vehicles, like a city bus, or a fire truck, and all these things that supposed to go a long, long, long ways, but they just replace them even though they're perfectly good vehicles. So I wanted to repurpose those and help them, and help, you know, communities in need. And like, so it's taking, I built one to be a water truck, like a box truck to be a water, water treatment plant to give kids in villages with terrible water and be able to, you know, reverse osmosis of water, give them drinkable water at their school, or take a, there's a

• 1:45:18Speaker 01

  it took a city bus and turned it into like a dance studio, a mobile dance studio for these kids in, in Mexico. And just these creative sort of things, and it's kind of like Pit My Ride, but with like, real valuable things, you know, just take these really cool, purpose-built trucks and stay in it and make it something really spectacular for these kids. All kids-driven, to give them what their, what their needs are. And then it just went into, like, I didn't want to make it about just vehicles. When I wanted to start the foundation, it became a wonderful calling card. And then I started the foundation, and my sister works for DCFS, which is Child Protective Services, in Los Angeles County. And one of my best girlfriends in, in Reno, she also works for CPS, Child Protective Services, there. So I've been working with foster youth for many, many, many years, privately.

• 1:46:02Speaker 01

  And now I just wanted to really get invested into the community, so I started small in northern, greater northern Nevada. And it's, and then my sister now is running it, and Shayna's running it as well with me, and the whole family's now gotten involved. And it's been really wonderful to come back from the incident, have this be a central

• 1:46:24Speaker 01

  Goal for us to celebrate our time together as a family and to give back to these kids that are in great need. And it is, it has been a dream of mine that I've been wanting to do for a long time and now can do it publicly. I've been doing it privately for a long time. And to really make a big splash and make a lot of movement for these kids. And it's, I think it's one of the reasons why I was brought back outside of all the other things. But I think there's something working in my favor to, to come back outside just, you know, my family. And, and I think it is my reach to kids and my ability to have a great effect for them. And it's been a couple of years now and it's already been moved, moved the mountains for kids already and will continue to do so.

• 1:47:09Speaker 01

  This is like me breathing. This is easy. I love this. This is a part of my fiber, my body. I'm the oldest of seven in my family. I've been changing diapers and living as the oldest. It's sort of my birthright to be able to do. What makes it even cooler is that I'm a Marvel superhero. So I have like a reach and access to these kids that they even listen to, right? They're like, oh, cool. Let's go to camp with Hawkeye. That's just dope. And they all show up with plastic sacks, right? And this is like all their valuables in their life. And it makes me weep, right? And this is all their worth and they show up with hefty bags, all of them. So we give them rollers with their names on it and a passport. It's like a journal and they can, I'm gonna change the narrative of this, of their, you're a traveler now. You're a world traveler.

• 1:47:52Speaker 01

  You're not, you're not carrying your trash around with all your, your worth in it. Your worth is much bigger than that. We're gonna, just planting seeds like that in their head and then creating community for them, creating opportunities for them, safe places for them, giving them more educated stuff. We brought in a recording studio bus for them to touch all these instruments that they'd never have access to. Who knows what that does? I don't care. Let it, they don't have access to things, right? Give these kids opportunities that they deserve. This is the future of our fucking planet. Why aren't we giving more time and effort to that? It's the future of our world, man. Let's give them, let's give them all the tools. We need another Elon. We need other super smart, amazing people, man. We need that.

• 1:48:34Speaker 01

  We need other leaders and, you know, what do we give in our youth? Especially our foster youth, man. It's not a good look. They've gone through a lot of struggles, these kids, man, and they're not gonna struggle out of my dime, out of my time. Amazing. So it's easy for thing for me to do. I love. It's a great focus for me that's um outside of uh. It's things I enjoy, right? I still do things that I enjoy. I just get to do it with these kids and have they teach me so much. I learned so much to keep me in a really. Yeah youthful spirit. I it's it's harrowing to hear what they've been through, Joe. I don't like to know. My sister knows all about it. Shannon knows all about it because they get the phone calls. They have relationships with a lot of these kids.

• 1:49:20Speaker 01

  They know dude, I mean, I'd flip you'd you'd probably react like I would. You want to flip a table, you want to hurt some people. You know, and it's it's so I'd prefer not to know. How they got touched and who did it and da da, you know, this kind of stuff. I just try to choose a focus on let's give these kids a oh plant some seeds of hope. And I'm good at that shit. And I love it. So we're on jet ski. They're thinking about it. They've never even been to this lake and the da. So whatever the heck it is, new experiences, new joy, new friends. They're all crying at the end of this camp because he had such a good day on time. One of them was getting adopted and she was crying because like I can't come back. Because I'm not a foster kid anymore. I've got adopted like, no, you can come back. You know, you know, you did good then when she didn't want to get adopted.

• 1:50:02Speaker 01

  Like ah, it means we're doing something right for these kids and we're going to continue doing it and we're doing it not only just as a camp, but we're doing like. Lots of programs throughout the year to keep the community of the foster youth community together. A lot of these kids are brothers and sisters that never get to see each other. Because they're in separate homes, separate cities, ones in Vegas, ones in Reno, right? This that's dude, you can't do that. You can't do that. So we're doing our best to. Unite community, right? Unite you need. We need each other. These kids need each other, even beyond they they don't need me. They need to access. And reasons to be together. So it's it's helping the the foster parents. It's helping the kids. It's whatever we can do. We're going to start building. Um youth centers as well. We'll be building homes as well in the future uh with the foundation, but.

• 1:50:47Speaker 01

  We're starting um step by step, breath at a time, uh brick at brick by brick and um building camps and and uh activities and. Education for them and. It's I love it. You can see how much I love it. I can't I can talk about this for days, man. It's it's.

• 1:51:02Joe Rogan?

  When you're talking.

• 1:51:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, I feel, I love it, man. I can't, we have these camps coming up here in June and July, so I'm pumped. Can't wait to finish this job and go, uh, go, go back home.

• 1:51:13Joe Rogan?

  That's incredible.

• 1:51:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:51:14Joe Rogan?

  It's kind of shocking that it takes individuals to be inspired to do something like this because society doesn't put any emphasis on this.

• 1:51:24Speaker 01

  Well, it's like, look, there's a, there's foster, states have foster programs, right? There's, that's why, but there's gaps in the system, man. It's like kids forgotten, kids are forgotten and then some are, it's, you know, it's, it's, it's tragic. It's, but, um, put a spotlight on something, um, put energy into something, um, it builds. And I got a loud voice and a big heart and I'm very actionable what I do. And that's why the foundation's growing and, and, and making the, the moves and, and making the, um, paving ways for, for these kids. So I'll, I'll keep doing it, man. It's like, it's easy.

• 1:52:01Joe Rogan?

  And how long have you been doing this now?

• 1:52:03Speaker 01

  Um, publicly, only a couple of years. It's just, just started out. So, you know, then it's like learning about, oh, the nonprofit stuff. It's like, oh, man, it's like going out and asking for money. So I don't do that. I'll go do like voiceover jobs and like put money in the account for, I, I hate asking for money for, for foundation stuff, you know? I'll let somebody else kind of bother that. I, I, I do, I stay in my lane. I work with the kids and work with the, the ideas and the programs and I love my sister and, uh, those guys in the, on the board. Deal with like you're having to raise money and all those kinds of things. It's just not my wheelhouse.

• 1:52:37Joe Rogan?

  Well, unfortunately, when people hear nonprofit, they always think, okay, well, where's the money really going?

• 1:52:42Speaker 01

  Well, that's where it is. And that's why we operate at eight percent, I think. Eight percent, yeah, nobody does that.

• 1:52:47Joe Rogan?

  That's the opposite of how they're usually done.

• 1:52:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So, I mean, even if we got to, cause no one's, no one takes anything except just basic operating costs. And if we're operating at eight percent, I think maybe thirteen percent, it's like all the money's going to the kids, man. All of it, all of it, all of it. So, and so I'm trying to get to the, the bank account to be full. So we only operate off, uh, the, uh, interest. Once we're there, then we can really start to, start to move needle for, for building things and doing some stuff in the future. So I'm excited for that.

• 1:53:20Joe Rogan?

  Are you gonna? Span this?

• 1:53:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, it'll grow, it'll grow. Uh, I'm try- again, I think to keep effective for me is staying in, in the home area or just the state of Nevada at least and not, not going too far. So, cause I, I still, I'm very, very hands-on. And it's important for me to, to be the voice for the foundation and, and for these kids and an advocate for them. And, uh, so I, I, Nevada is kind of the goal for the next, maybe the next five years for sure. And there's still a ton of kids that I have not reached and need to reach. So I, I focus on that.

• 1:53:57Joe Rogan?

  That's amazing, man.

• 1:53:58Speaker 01

  Yeah. Then there's a, then there's, then there's like getting the, that, these youth that the age out. They're getting back into being counselors back in the camp. Um, there's a great thing with UNR, they, they get a free ride at the, at the, the university and a lot of them are going back into sociology and psychology and wanna go help kids and foster. Like this is so great. So I wanna give them opportunities to come back and, and help, uh, the youth and maybe give them guidance. God, this is awesome. Self-healing and cathartic in its own way. Whatever we can do, man. It's a, it's, it's a, it's a, it's a wonderful, wonderful life.

• 1:54:35Joe Rogan?

  It's amazing cause you light up when you talk about that like nothing else we've talked about.

• 1:54:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, man. Yeah. It's, yeah. It is, uh, it's everything. It's, it's, again, I'm focusing my energy on all the positive stuff, you know? Cause in, I, cause I count too sensitive to deal with the, the hardships that they go through. So, uh, let me just be a, a guide, a guiding light for them or, or someone to laugh on. They, they sign my T-shirts, whatever they wanna do. I don't care. I'm their, I'm their playground. Um, I, I love it, man.

• 1:55:09Speaker 01

  Again, I think it's, it's, I think it's the reason why I came back, Joe.

• 1:55:12Joe Rogan?

  That's incredible. You, you could see that it means so much to you.

• 1:55:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:55:16Joe Rogan?

  And that's just, if you could find something like that in life, you're a winner.

• 1:55:20Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 1:55:22Joe Rogan?

  I mean, just, uh, you'll think of the, the amount of

• 1:55:24Speaker 01

  Positive energy you put out there in the world. Yeah, it's it's pretty exponential.

• 1:55:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, the ripple effect of that. It's insane. Change their life, they'll change other people's lives, yeah. And then it comes back, it's it's it's pretty what you put out in the world is what you get back, you know? I see it every day and it's exponential, especially now since the incident. The ripple effect of just, dude, this happened in my driveway, it was a private experience. I woke up and it was a global thing. I didn't ask for that. So, kinda glad it did, it allowed people to see me as the man that I am and not the guy that slings an arrow. Right. You know what I mean? It's a fake arrow because it's CGI.

• 1:56:12Speaker 01

  You know, so that's, so I'm glad it became a big public thing, but, you know. The ripple effect of of just that this narrative of the recovery is. Like you said, it can affect a lot of people and it's a beautiful thing, it's a positive thing and like the foundation. And I see it and feel it every day. You really lead an exemplary life, my friend. Well, I what's the alternative?

• 1:56:36Speaker 01

  I know, but I mean, it's interesting that you have this perspective, like I'm I'm always curious to people that have such an amazing perspective, like. How did you gain it? Like, how did you get to this place? Yeah, well, I mean, you have to, I think you have to life in review, right? You know, there's a life in review, I think there's, I think, you know, there's birth order. Right, there's also being in the seventies in a small town where I was a latchkey kid. Right, didn't I, I had free reign, I was seven years old and a key to the house, didn't have to come home till the streetlights came on. Right, me too. Yeah, I made mistakes, yeah, I broke windows with slingshots and stole shit and died and light up the cigarette butt and my my mom's and.

• 1:57:21Speaker 01

  All this stuff and I got caught and sometimes I learn, I reprimand myself, I self-policed myself. Um, I was a very honest kid. Uh, you know, I there's a lot, lot of, lot of things, you know, I had I had a bicycle and then that was like freedom. That's where I began like, oh, I have real freedom, I grabbed a fishing pole, I got on my bike and just went off into another county. Yeah. Like, that wouldn't happen today, I would never allow my daughter.

• 1:57:48Speaker 01

  Walk across the street.

• 1:57:50Joe Rogan?

  I had a similar life. I was an Alaskan kid too, and I just think the heart.

• 1:57:54Speaker 01

  Where was this?

• 1:57:55Joe Rogan?

  Well, I lived all over the place, but I lived when I was seven till eleven. I lived in San Francisco from eleven to thirteen. I lived in Florida from thirteen till twenty-four. I lived in Boston.

• 1:58:06Speaker 01

  Oh, wow.

• 1:58:07Joe Rogan?

  Then New York and out here.

• 1:58:08Speaker 01

  Oh, wow.

• 1:58:09Joe Rogan?

  And, well, LA rather, and then out here, last five years.

• 1:58:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:58:13Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:58:14Speaker 01

  Well, it's a good mix. Yeah, it's a good mix, right?

• 1:58:16Joe Rogan?

  Well, the good thing about living in a bunch of different places, the bad thing is I never really developed roots.

• 1:58:21Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:58:22Joe Rogan?

  And, but I had to form my own opinions, because I couldn't count on the opinions of all the people around me. I didn't, I didn't have like a core group of friends.

• 1:58:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:58:34Joe Rogan?

  So I always had to like, sort of see the world for what it was.

• 1:58:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, did that make you an introvert or an extrovert or both?

• 1:58:43Joe Rogan?

  I think I was an introvert initially. I don't think I ever, even though I talk for a living and I'm a public figure, I'm not really an extrovert, which is really odd. Like, I don't really like attention, which sounds crazy for someone who gets a lot of attention.

• 1:58:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:58:55Joe Rogan?

  I don't need it, you know, which is probably why I get it in some strange.

• 1:59:00Speaker 01

  Right, right.

• 1:59:00Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, some strange, like, I was very socially anxious when I was a kid.

• 1:59:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:59:05Joe Rogan?

  I would get super nervous when I had to talk to a bank teller. I remember one time I had to deposit money in a bank and I was like, why am I freaking out like this? This is so weird.

• 1:59:13Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:59:13Joe Rogan?

  You know, um, but eventually overcame all that stuff and then, you know, through martial arts, traveling around all throughout my youth, from the time I was fifteen till I was twenty-two. So all I did was travel around the country and competing.

• 1:59:31Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 1:59:32Joe Rogan?

  So I had a very bizarre life in that I didn't have like the normal high school life of partying and hanging out. And I was, you know, flying to California to fight.

• 1:59:44Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:59:45Joe Rogan?

  It was weird.

• 1:59:45Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:59:46Joe Rogan?

  It was a very weird life.

• 1:59:47Speaker 01

  Huh.

• 1:59:47Joe Rogan?

  You know, so I, you know, I still wasn't an extrovert. Like, I didn't really learn. How to talk in groups of people till I started teaching. I started teaching martial arts. And then that's how I learned how to public speak.

• 2:00:03Speaker 01

  Ah.

• 2:00:03Joe Rogan?

  But I was publicly speaking about something that I was very good at. So it was like I commanded sort of attention just by, cause I would demonstrate to them. Things that I was doing and in in demonstrating and talking. It made sense that I was able to talk.

• 2:00:20Speaker 01

  About something you knew very well and you're comfortable in.

• 2:00:22Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you know, it's like I was really good at it so I could show them. I'm gonna demonstrate something to you and then I'd do it and they'd be like, holy shit. I'd be like, I'm gonna show you how to do this. And then if you listen to me, like I I taught at Boston University and when I was nineteen. And it was a real counted towards your GPA. It was like pass, fail, A. And I'd say, all you have to do is show up and try and you get an A. And if you can't show up, call me, tell me you can't make it and you'll be fine. If you fuck off, I'm gonna fail you. But if you just try, you get an A and then it counts towards your GPA. This is like a legit thing.

• 2:00:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:00:59Joe Rogan?

  Like, well, all I want you to do is like this can help your life. And I'm not thinking you're gonna go and fight and compete, but I can teach you something here.

• 2:01:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:01:09Joe Rogan?

  And it's difficult, but you'll get better at it and through getting better at it, you'll learn how to get better at other things.

• 2:01:14Speaker 01

  The discipline and.

• 2:01:15Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. So that's like how I got into comedy in the oddest way. Learning how to talk to people. Cause I wasn't comfortable talking to be, I always felt like a loser and a weirdo and I always felt like an outcast.

• 2:01:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:01:29Joe Rogan?

  So for to to learn how to talk publicly, like that's how I did.

• 2:01:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:01:35Joe Rogan?

  You know, but all that traveling around just gave me this very bizarre, like rootless sense of who I was as a person.

• 2:01:43Speaker 01

  Is there anything that you grabbed that from from that experience that you hold on to? I mean, like to, you know, from, there's some positive things that kind of come out from that, right?

• 2:01:52Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:01:53Speaker 01

  Like I I like I went to a different school every year of my life, at least until I got to high school. But I was in the same town. I didn't move around a lot, maybe just in the town I did. Divorce and all that sort of stuff or schools were full, whatever it was. So I had to either engage with people, all brand new people, each grade, new school, new grade.

• 2:02:11Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:02:12Speaker 01

  And then, you know, you're growing up. I was more shy and I think more like you, like an introvert. And so either I was very gregarious, or I just was an observer and

• 2:02:20Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:02:21Speaker 01

  I just watched. So you just make choices and that's why I became an observer. But with that, I don't know. I liked that part of me. And I can be extroverted, like I'm an actor in a thing, but I'm still more insular and quiet.

• 2:02:35Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:02:36Speaker 01

  Even though the two quiet guys are yapping their jaws off for hours.

• 2:02:41Joe Rogan?

  Well, I mean, you, it was hard, but I wouldn't have wanted it any other way.

• 2:02:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:02:47Joe Rogan?

  Because I think it made me different, you know, and I think there's unfortunately, if you are in like a small town and you grow up in that town and you never leave that town, your perspective is very limited.

• 2:03:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:03:02Joe Rogan?

  And I moved around a lot. And I think that was very uncomfortable. I hated it when I was a kid, like fuck, we're moving again to another state, like this is crazy. But that made me who I am. And again, it made me form my own opinions instead of adopting a conglomeration of opinions that everybody around me had. You know, and I went from very liberal and progressive San Francisco in the 1970s during the Vietnam War to living in Florida.

• 2:03:33Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:03:33Joe Rogan?

  Where it was like completely the opposite, like super conservative and kind of retarded. And I remember just being around people like, why do they even, why do they even think like this? This is crazy. It was so strange to me to have this like complete juxtaposition, almost like a cultural 180. But it also made me realize like, wow, there's a lot of different ways to think.

• 2:03:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:03:54Joe Rogan?

  There's a lot of different ways to engage with life.

• 2:03:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:03:58Joe Rogan?

  You know?

• 2:03:59Speaker 01

  Well, don't we, like especially growing up, right? Because you're saying like seven, eight, 13, 14, all those years we look to our friends and friendship groups to sort of like kind of help develop ourselves and

• 2:04:10Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:04:10Speaker 01

  Kind of be a reflection upon ourselves. And if you don't have it, you have other things that you, you know, you turn to.

• 2:04:17Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:04:17Speaker 01

  But you know, like you said, it could have been a terrible thing if you stayed in the same place and you had the same core four dudes. And then how limited your life would have been to staying in San Fran, you know.

• 2:04:26Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:04:27Speaker 01

  So it could, it's like you said, there's a real good positive thing to take from. Being removed from stability, removed from, right? That's all anxiety inducing.

• 2:04:36Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:04:37Speaker 01

  Or it could be the perspective, right? The perspective could be, if it's a positive perspective, you know, to lean on. Yeah, like you said, I like how I came in the thing and it drove you into all the things that you probably like about yourself today. I think it's pretty interesting.

• 2:04:50Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and it also, like, I got picked on a lot, too, in which that's what drove me into martial arts.

• 2:04:56Speaker 01

  Boston days?

• 2:04:57Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I was like, I hate being scared of people.

• 2:05:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:05:00Joe Rogan?

  It just drove me nuts.

• 2:05:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:05:02Joe Rogan?

  I didn't have friends, so like a group of guys would fuck with me and I didn't know what to do. So I was like, okay, I gotta fix this. And so I became obsessed with martial arts. And then once I started doing that, it was like the first thing that I ever did, it was like, hey, I don't think I'm a loser. I just think I never figured out how to get good at something. And now that I'm really good at this one thing, I'm like the opposite of a loser. And then I became obsessed with winning, you know, and then that was like my whole life until I was like, I don't think I want to do this anymore. And then I, you know, transitioned to other things, but that period of time wouldn't have happened if I lived in a comfortable environment where I wasn't fucked with.

• 2:05:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:05:41Joe Rogan?

  And where I didn't get bullied, you know, I wouldn't have that desire to like do something that was completely terrifying. Cause I was scared of physical confrontation. So what do I do? Spend my whole life getting involved in like voluntary physical confrontation with trained fighters.

• 2:06:00Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:06:01Joe Rogan?

  Which is way more terrifying.

• 2:06:02Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:06:02Joe Rogan?

  The most terrifying thing, you know? You know, but that.

• 2:06:08Speaker 01

  But what's the alternative? Oh, just be scared and be bullied and beat the fuck up?

• 2:06:11Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's what I had to decide, you know?

• 2:06:13Speaker 01

  Take the reins?

• 2:06:14Joe Rogan?

  I had to decide that. I just had to make this change, you know?

• 2:06:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:06:20Joe Rogan?

  Fortunately, it worked out.

• 2:06:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:06:22Joe Rogan?

  It's very bizarre the turns that life takes and when you look back, you're like, what if that hadn't happened? What if I hadn't done this? What if I hadn't, what if I hadn't turned left?

• 2:06:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, the crossroads are so, so, so instrumental in who we become.

• 2:06:37Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:06:37Speaker 01

  And like, whether they're in control of that? Like, we're not steering any ship at that point, right?

• 2:06:42Joe Rogan?

  So much of it is luck.

• 2:06:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:06:43Joe Rogan?

  Or whatever it is, or fate, whatever fate means.

• 2:06:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:06:47Joe Rogan?

  You know, I mean, fate is kind of assumed once an outcome has been achieved, oh, it was fate.

• 2:06:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, in hindsight.

• 2:06:53Joe Rogan?

  Was it really?

• 2:06:54Speaker 01

  In hindsight, you can say that.

• 2:06:55Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I'm not sure.

• 2:06:57Speaker 01

  Say that in the moment.

• 2:06:58Joe Rogan?

  Right. I do think there's, there's a certain power to following instincts, which I've always done for whatever reason. You know, there's a, there's a pull that you have towards a certain direction, even if it's like massively uncomfortable. Like, sometimes you have to realize like, okay, let's go. Like, this is what I'm supposed to do. And that, that is very hard to do. But, once you do it a few times, and then you start saying, there, there's a little voice in your head, like, that motherfucker's never let me down. I'm gonna keep serving that voice. Whatever that voice is, I'm gonna, I'm keep listening. Even though people are like, what are you doing? And I'm like, ah, I'm not gonna listen to you.

• 2:07:37Speaker 01

  I hear that a lot.

• 2:07:37Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:07:40Joe Rogan?

  I think so do a lot of people that have accomplished great things.

• 2:07:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:07:44Joe Rogan?

  I don't think anybody who listens to the advice of everyone around them ever steps out of line.

• 2:07:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:07:49Joe Rogan?

  You know, I think you, I don't think you ever really try anything crazy.

• 2:07:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, you got it.

• 2:07:53Joe Rogan?

  Cause most people aren't gonna wanna support you when you're trying something that seems insane. Whether it's trying to be a movie star, or whatever it is.

• 2:08:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:08:01Joe Rogan?

  Trying to be a martial artist, or a rock star, or anything in life that's hard to do. Most people are gonna tell you, don't do that. Especially people that are conservative, and conservative in a sense of like, to do something that is gonna give you a, a good chance of success.

• 2:08:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:08:16Joe Rogan?

  Because the more fun things are very open-ended. They don't really have a lot of success. Like, what are the, what's, what are the numbers of people that become successful actors?

• 2:08:27Speaker 01

  Oh, I mean, it's just.

• 2:08:28Joe Rogan?

  Is it like a tenth of a percent? Is it even that? It's probably not even that.

• 2:08:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, probably not even that.

• 2:08:33Joe Rogan?

  It's probably less than that. I mean, if you could, like, get a chart of like, how many people moved to Los Angeles to try to make it in show business? And how many make it? It's gotta be an astronomical.

• 2:08:45Speaker 01

  The numbers are not good.

• 2:08:46Joe Rogan?

  Insane. Those numbers have to be insane.

• 2:08:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:08:50Joe Rogan?

  But some, my thought was like, fuck, somebody's doing it. Like, somebody did it. Like, why can't I do it? And then people would say, you're not, you know what, with the odds, you're gonna make it? Like, I don't know. Why am I thinking about that? Someone, it can be done.

• 2:09:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:09:04Joe Rogan?

  People have done it. Like, you gotta, but you have to be willing to just really fucking throw yourself into something.

• 2:09:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:09:15Joe Rogan?

  And know that, especially in the beginning, there's no time to fuck off here. If you really wanna do something that's really hard to do, like, you gotta be all in.

• 2:09:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:09:26Joe Rogan?

  Cause there's too many people that are all in.

• 2:09:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:09:28Joe Rogan?

  And you're competing with them. You're not competing with these like half-steppers, these people that are kinda dipping in and dipping out. They're, they're there as an example for you to not live your life.

• 2:09:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, isn't there like a kind of a selective hearing that kinda has to happen in, in anything for anyone? We have to listen and really listen to engage and really listen to learn and grow.

• 2:09:49Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:09:49Speaker 01

  But then we have to have selective listening to like, how many times I was told no? Or told, I was told I was crazy?

• 2:09:54Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:09:55Speaker 01

  Or to like, what are you doing? You out of your mind? I'm like, ooh, now I was on, I knew I'm on the right track when I hear that.

• 2:09:59Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:10:00Speaker 01

  Cause that's, that's, that's, that's the words of a fearful person.

• 2:10:03Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:10:03Speaker 01

  Those, those, those, those are the words uttered from someone who's scared and not courageous. And a lot of stuff's in their way. I'm on the right track.

• 2:10:12Joe Rogan?

  Well, not just that.

• 2:10:13Speaker 01

  You know?

• 2:10:13Joe Rogan?

  There are those people that would try to sabotage you because they don't want you to be successful because they haven't taken a chance in their life. So they don't want anybody who does, who's courageous to, they want you to fail. There's people out there that want people that are courageous to fall apart.

• 2:10:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:10:28Joe Rogan?

  Because then it makes them feel better for their own choices.

• 2:10:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's okay. That's, they gotta, they gotta live with that.

• 2:10:33Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:10:33Speaker 01

  I don't, right?

• 2:10:34Joe Rogan?

  Right, right.

• 2:10:35Speaker 01

  They gotta swim in that.

• 2:10:36Joe Rogan?

  But again, I, I think that those things are just like, you need the rain to appreciate the sun.

• 2:10:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:10:43Joe Rogan?

  You know?

• 2:10:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:10:44Joe Rogan?

  You need to struggle to appreciate love.

• 2:10:46Speaker 01

  They have to coexist, otherwise they don't exist, right? It's like a truth and a lie. They both have to exist, otherwise everything's just fucking true.

• 2:10:52Joe Rogan?

  Right, right.

• 2:10:53Speaker 01

  Right? So that, you have to coexist together, otherwise you don't.

• 2:10:56Joe Rogan?

  That's the hardest part of life to truly understand. Like, why is there evil?

• 2:11:00Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:11:01Joe Rogan?

  You need love.

• 2:11:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:11:03Joe Rogan?

  You need good. Like, why, why, why can't everything be love? Well, it can't.

• 2:11:07Speaker 01

  It can't.

• 2:11:07Joe Rogan?

  There has to be evil people for you to appreciate loving people. You know, there really has to be. Kind people for you to, you know, to appreciate, oh, okay. Life is not just all cruelty. And but you have to know that cruelty exists for you to appreciate kindness.

• 2:11:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:11:26Joe Rogan?

  Weird.

• 2:11:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:11:27Joe Rogan?

  It's a weird dance and it's it's.

• 2:11:29Speaker 01

  It's strange.

• 2:11:30Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, like if God is real, like what a strange game he's playing.

• 2:11:38Joe Rogan?

  But you could kind of, when it all works out, you see wisdom in it, you know, you're like, I kind of get it.

• 2:11:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:11:43Joe Rogan?

  Like he the life is not just utopia. It's a strange mix of good and evil.

• 2:11:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:11:50Joe Rogan?

  And and and love and hate and and all these things that are in the way.

• 2:11:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, those tests, man, those tests, don't they suck? All the all the tests we have in our lives and everybody has them, everybody, there's nobody that's exempt from it. No. How much money, how successful, no, ah, you're all, we're all susceptible to great tests and great suffering.

• 2:12:11Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:12:11Speaker 01

  It's how well you overcome that suffering. Uh, it will determine how well you love and deeply you love in your life.

• 2:12:18Joe Rogan?

  And also the people that have overcome the most are the most fascinating and interesting and complex.

• 2:12:23Speaker 01

  Aren't they?

• 2:12:24Joe Rogan?

  Aren't they? Um, have you ever met Amanda Knox? Do you know who she is?

• 2:12:27Speaker 01

  Mm hmm. Yeah, I know she is.

• 2:12:29Joe Rogan?

  She's that woman that was accused wrongly of a murder in Italy.

• 2:12:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, I remember that.

• 2:12:34Joe Rogan?

  She spent years in prison and in Italy and she is so fascinating.

• 2:12:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:12:38Joe Rogan?

  She's so strong and so interesting. And I asked her about this, I was like, do you ever think like you are this really unusual person with this like fucking cast iron integrity and character? Would you be this person if you hadn't been wrongly accused and spent years in prison and publicly persecuted? And then eventually absolved? Like, who would you be? I mean, would you want it any other way? I mean, I don't.

• 2:13:08Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:13:09Joe Rogan?

  I wouldn't wish that on anybody, but yet here you meet her, she's so incredible, it's like. Life is very, very odd.

• 2:13:17Speaker 01

  Yeah. And there's choices that she could have made, right? In, in that. She could have been like resentful.

• 2:13:24Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:13:24Speaker 01

  Well, I don't know how she is, so I don't know.

• 2:13:26Joe Rogan?

  She's not at all, no.

• 2:13:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, but like, you know, there's, and she could have been valid in any really kind of feeling she has about things. Cause that's all, sounds pretty shitty.

• 2:13:33Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:13:34Speaker 01

  Right, you gotta, and, uh, but, you know, working, what's the alternative? You, you wanna hold on to resentment and that kind of, is that the life you wanna live? Cause it's your choice.

• 2:13:42Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:13:43Speaker 01

  Or, uh, how, I like, fuck, she sounds like an interesting person to talk about, but, um, you know, her, is it a choice? Is it a choice for her? Does she feel like it was a choice? Like, you know, what, what's her?

• 2:13:52Joe Rogan?

  Certainly wasn't.

• 2:13:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:13:53Joe Rogan?

  No, I mean.

• 2:13:54Speaker 01

  Did she feel like that that made her who she is and she's content with that, or?

• 2:13:58Joe Rogan?

  I mean, she's, she's certainly resigned to what it is, but she's very happy now.

• 2:14:05Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:14:05Joe Rogan?

  But not just happy, like, complex, like a complex compassionate charitable thinker.

• 2:14:11Speaker 01

  What's the, what's the conversation if she's still in the, in the joint, you know?

• 2:14:15Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:14:15Speaker 01

  You know, I mean, she's still in the clink and there's no hope of her getting out.

• 2:14:18Joe Rogan?

  Well, she learned a lot in there, too.

• 2:14:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, I bet.

• 2:14:21Joe Rogan?

  People, like, what, the, the terrible choices that people make, cause most of the people that were in there were guilty. You know, and the, and the terrible choices that these people make and like, what happened to you when you were young? Like, why did you become a person who murdered your husband? Why did you become a person who, you know, robbed a bank? Why did you, what, what, what went wrong? You used to be a baby, you know?

• 2:14:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:14:43Joe Rogan?

  This is something that I really, um, changed, one, being a parent, really changed my perspective of human beings in a very profound way, in many, many profound ways. But one of the biggest ones is I stopped looking at people as being static. I stopped looking at, oh, Jeremy's fifty-four, he's always been fifty-four. That's how I know it. Now I look at everybody like, oh, you were a baby.

• 2:15:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:15:05Joe Rogan?

  You were a baby. You know what I mean?

• 2:15:09Joe Rogan?

  You know, I love my daughters dearly and they're very extraordinary people, but it's been fascinating to watch them as little babies become these really complex human beings and have conversations with them and talk to them and see how they interface with life and and then I, you know, meet people who are all fucked up and, you know, angry and fucking hateful and I'm like, god damn, what happened? What, what went wrong?

• 2:15:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:15:35Joe Rogan?

  You know, what are the things that, and how do you get out of this? You know?

• 2:15:40Speaker 01

  Yep. It's interesting.

• 2:15:42Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:15:43Speaker 01

  It's, you know.

• 2:15:45Joe Rogan?

  Well, I mean, it's

• 2:15:47Joe Rogan?

  there's so many trials and tribulations in this wonderful existence that we all share. And I think we learn a lot through other people's, not just your own, but other people's.

• 2:15:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, for sure. Well, that's the hope, anyway. We can, right?

• 2:16:01Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Well, I think a lot of people are gonna learn a lot through you.

• 2:16:05Speaker 01

  And without having to do it in a fearful way, or scare tactics, or, you know what I mean?

• 2:16:09Joe Rogan?

  That doesn't really work.

• 2:16:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, but it's used everywhere in media and, right?

• 2:16:13Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:16:13Speaker 01

  Advertising and all that kind of stuff, right?

• 2:16:16Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:16:16Speaker 01

  But like, to do it in an honest way, or it's like, I hope, I still learn by talking about my experience. Right? I still learn by looking through the book or listening to the audio. I'll be listening to the audio soon. When I have my daughter and all my nieces and nephews around, they're gonna listen to it. We're all gonna listen to it together. So I'm not gonna have them go off and read in this thing. It's too harrowing to do it alone. But like, I'll be listening to it and I'm gonna learn through it and with that experience and that exchange with these beautiful young creatures.

• 2:16:45Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:16:46Speaker 01

  You know?

• 2:16:47Joe Rogan?

  Well, you'll be learning for so long. It's only been a couple of years, which is really crazy.

• 2:16:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'll keep, keep trying and testing the limits of, of my body and, and my mind and my spirit and what I can pass on to others, what I can give on to others, what they give me. I mean, it is a vibrant, high vibration that I'm living right now. And I, uh,

• 2:17:12Speaker 01

  I'm so blessed to have it. I have so much gratitude at every breath.

• 2:17:20Speaker 01

  I almost feel like I don't have to walk anywhere, I sort of live it, I just feel so lucky. And I think it's, has to do with all the love and all the goodness that this world has to offer. I think that's gotten me through. And the attitude of it, that perspective of that. Cause it can be a very bleak, dark place. Yeah. You know, but I, I choose to, I choose love, I choose action, I choose my perspective, it is my choice.

• 2:18:02Speaker 01

  And I've been, I've been in dark places where it wasn't quite so positive and so lovely. It was well before the accident, you know. Where just like, you know, just kind of grumbly and grumpy and don't want to leave my house and, you know, I don't want to go sign autographs, I don't want to be around people, or you know, just kind of whatever, you know. Not a really great, happy place perhaps, you know, like everybody has a right to be, but if that doesn't exist at this point, you know, I don't get any more bad days, Joe. That's amazing.

• 2:18:31Speaker 01

  Right? You're like, "Fuck, I wanted that!" Isn't that incredible? Well, I can gas up the snowcat for you one, I can make it happen for you. Isn't that incredible? No more bad days, brother, right? Wow. It's a, it's a perspective that is mine, and a truth and a reality that is mine. Cause I have a barometer to like, "Yeah, I know what a bad day is actually like." And I was tested to my limits, and I got through it, luckily, somehow, some way. And it's, it's a, it's just a, almost science at this point, it's a factual, that it's just not gonna happen. I can't, no matter if I tried so hard to have a bad day, it's just not gonna happen. Yeah, I can have a bad moment, I can have, you know, frustrating times, but it's not, I'm just not gonna have a bad day. And for the rest of my experience here on earth.

• 2:19:12Joe Rogan?

  That's amazing, and I think that experience, this perspective that you're sharing is contagious.

• 2:19:18Speaker 01

  I think so too, dude. Yeah, I know, actually, I know so. I know so.

• 2:19:22Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I think so too.

• 2:19:23Speaker 01

  For a fact. It's sort of make manifestation of what your existence is, you want it to be.

• 2:19:29Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:19:29Speaker 01

  And you can do it.

• 2:19:30Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:19:31Speaker 01

  But you gotta believe it, you gotta do it.

• 2:19:32Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:19:33Speaker 01

  Both those things.

• 2:19:34Joe Rogan?

  I think that's why it's beautiful that you wrote this book.

• 2:19:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:19:38Joe Rogan?

  My next breath?

• 2:19:39Speaker 01

  Yes, sir.

• 2:19:40Joe Rogan?

  Um, thank you, Jeremy. It was awesome. I really

• 2:19:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:19:43Joe Rogan?

  I really appreciate you.

• 2:19:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, likewise, brother. You, uh, you make me happy, man. You bring out a lot of good stuff in me. You reaffirm a lot of, of, of good things in me in a really, really meaningful way, and I appreciate you.

• 2:19:55Joe Rogan?

  I appreciate you too. Thank you. It was a lot of fun.

• 2:19:58Speaker 01

  Yes, sir.

• 2:19:58Joe Rogan?

  Thank you.

• 2:19:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'll see you at the UFC's too, man.

• 2:20:00Joe Rogan?

  Absolutely. Okay. Go buy this book, folks.

• 2:20:03Speaker 01

  Yes, sir.

• 2:20:04Joe Rogan?

  Bye, brother.

• 2:20:04Speaker 01

  Bye-bye.