#2239 - Derek, More Plates More Dates

Derek is the fitness educator and entrepreneur behind the "MorePlates, More Dates" YouTube channel, podcast, and companion website. http://www.moreplatesmoredates.com https://www.youtube.com/ @MorePlatesMoreDates Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  The Joe Rogan Experience.

• 0:12Joe Rogan?

  So, we just watched this, what is this exact job? We watched this guy get assassinated, which is kinda, I've seen more people assassinated and killed over the last two years on Instagram than I ever have in my whole life.

• 0:28Speaker 02

  Oh yeah, dude, the explorer page now is a disaster.

• 0:32Joe Rogan?

  It's just like, me and Tom Segura have this thing where we send each other the most fucked up thing we find every day.

• 0:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 0:38Joe Rogan?

  It's a brutal text thread, but because of it, now I'm locked into this algorithm.

• 0:43Speaker 03

  He's the CEO of their insurance unit, which I don't know what the difference is and what people, or he is CEO, but...

• 0:49Joe Rogan?

  A targeted attack by a gunman waiting for him, a real assassination, 6:45 a.m. outside the Hilton on 6th Avenue, where the company's annual investor conference is about to take place. Yeah, man, I wonder what's going on with that. That's the, one of those things that just makes conspiracy theorists go cuckoo. I'm sure there's some real good theories floating around on X right now.

• 1:13Speaker 02

  Oh, for sure.

• 1:14Joe Rogan?

  Is there?

• 1:17Joe Rogan?

  It's gotta be.

• 1:18Speaker 03

  The investor meeting has now been canceled, obviously, but, so, that was maybe the goal.

• 1:23Speaker 02

  What's worse, your X explorer page or your Instagram?

• 1:28Joe Rogan?

  Uh, my Instagram.

• 1:30Speaker 02

  Oh, really?

• 1:30Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, my, I don't, I just follow, I mean, I follow a lot of people on both X and Instagram. It's, I don't know if it's necessarily a good thing, but when I, someone says something interesting, or they post something interesting on Instagram, I just immediately follow, like, let's see, let's see if this will be fun. But, on, the thing about Twitter or X is that like... I don't interact enough to have a really fucked up algorithm. I'm mostly just reading stuff. I don't really hardly ever like post anything.

• 2:02Speaker 02

  I think the problem is I'll click to watch a full video of the fucked up things. So then it reinforces the algorithm. Like, oh, you wanna see this guy get shot? Or, oh, you wanna see this car accident? We'll give you more of those.

• 2:16Joe Rogan?

  I've seen so many people get run over by cars.

• 2:18Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 2:19Joe Rogan?

  So many people.

• 2:20Speaker 02

  And it, yeah, it's crazy cuz I, a lot of the stuff I've seen in the past year, I didn't even know could be on the internet.

• 2:26Joe Rogan?

  Right. I don't know how it is when there's so many things you can't put on. Do you know that there's a loophole that the ladies use to show their breasts?

• 2:34Speaker 02

  Well, which one?

• 2:35Joe Rogan?

  Fake boobs, uh, fake baby?

• 2:37Speaker 02

  Oh, no.

• 2:38Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, they use a fake baby, so they breastfeed. So you got these girls, these big juicy melons, and they pull one out and have a rubber baby, and the rubber baby sucking on the tit. And the, the, the baby looks so fake.

• 2:50Speaker 02

  That's hilarious.

• 2:50Joe Rogan?

  But they can get some like pretty realistic fake babies.

• 2:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:54Joe Rogan?

  Like, what was that movie with, um, the sniper movie about Chris Kyle? What was that called? Remember, it was a movie where he had a fake baby and it was like so obvious. He's got this like rubber baby and he's like holding on to his child in this stupid scene.

• 3:10Speaker 02

  I'm, I'm pretty sure on Twitter, you can just post nudity without any, like, problems, right?

• 3:17Joe Rogan?

  You can post pornography.

• 3:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, the dude, the replies to a lot of tweets that are irrelevant to porn. It'll just be like, that's cool, but have you seen my pussy? It'll be like, some chick promoting her OnlyFans? That's so common now, and I just like, the discourse is like half infested at this point.

• 3:38Joe Rogan?

  They had this one lady who was saying she made forty million dollars this year on, it's on, uh, OnlyFans.

• 3:44Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, that's nuts.

• 3:46Joe Rogan?

  Forty million.

• 3:47Speaker 03

  And she's a virgin, I guess, and she doesn't post that stuff?

• 3:50Joe Rogan?

  Sure, sure, she's a virgin. Sure, she's a twenty-three-year-old big-titted virgin, the only one that exists in the whole world.

• 3:59Speaker 02

  See, that, that's an interesting, uh...

• 4:03Speaker 02

  Scenario, if true, because it's like, a lot of dudes want to shit on these chicks for being like, like prostitutes essentially.

• 4:12Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 4:13Speaker 02

  But like, if she was actually a virgin and she's posting like, almost nude, but not quite, but making a bunch of money off it.

• 4:21Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 4:21Speaker 02

  There's like two contradictory things going on right now.

• 4:24Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, she wins. But the problem is, this is, I mean, I don't want to tell anybody not to do anything. Like, ladies, you do what you want, you do you. If I was a young, pretty girl, I'd probably be on OnlyFans. I'd probably make some money. Fuck it. Why would I want to be a waitress when I could just show my tits? That's how I would look at it. The problem is, twofold. One, you become addicted to an extraordinary amount of money, if you're successful at it, right? So there's like a scale of people on the OnlyFans, apparently. Most of the OnlyFans, we talked about this, right? Like, most of the gals don't make that much money. Most of them.

• 4:58Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, that's, what's that much? Six figures or millions or?

• 5:01Joe Rogan?

  No, like even less. Like, most of them make a few thousand dollars a month.

• 5:05Speaker 03

  I think so. I think out of this forty-three, one guy paid her five million, she said.

• 5:09Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 5:10Speaker 02

  Dude, that's insane. Dude, it would suck too, is if you went full board and you did like, actual porn.

• 5:18Joe Rogan?

  And you made no money.

• 5:18Speaker 02

  And just got like banged on camera, just for thinking you're gonna become a multimillionaire, and then you still are like.

• 5:25Joe Rogan?

  You would have to get banged on camera a lot for years to really develop a fanbase. And you have to do a really good job, like every time, super enthusiastic. But my point is, like, you're not going to, like, most beautiful young women want a high-value man as a husband. If, let's say they're heterosexual. Let's just assume they want to get married. If they do want to get married, they do want a relationship. You're not gonna get a high-value man, especially if you're making, if you're making millions of dollars a year doing this. You're gonna want a guy who makes millions of dollars a year, right? You're not gonna want a guy who makes less than you. You're probably used to buying fucking Louis Vuitton, this and that, and you're used to all this shit.

• 6:08Joe Rogan?

  So you're probably, you're wealthy, right? So you're already, your dating pool. Smaller because you're probably not interested in a guy who makes a hundred thousand dollars a year. Like a regular guy to you is like, what is he gonna do? He can't even take me anywhere. This is bull. I'm gonna pay for our vacation. Get the fuck out of here. Right? So you've already like cut like regular guys out. So now you have a very small pool of men that you can date. And then out of that pool, how many of them are going to accept the fact that you're doing this? Now you have an even smaller pool. So some guys will accept it, but for how long? Like if you get real serious, you get married and then you're still showing your asshole to everybody? That's, you know, you're in, but you're addicted to that money. Like, are you gonna?

• 6:51Joe Rogan?

  Pick a relationship over this guy who may or may not be DMing his ex-girlfriend? You know, like? You're gonna throw it all away and throw away this forty million dollar a year empire you've created? Or are you trapped in that essentially forever?

• 7:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's uh, it's interesting, the thresholds though too of where they become successful for what they're doing. Cause it seems like some of them don't have to show their asshole. They just, they just post like thirst trap, fitness girl type content almost.

• 7:21Joe Rogan?

  And people pay for that?

• 7:23Speaker 02

  I.

• 7:24Joe Rogan?

  But why would they pay for that when there's so much of that for free on Instagram?

• 7:28Speaker 02

  I know. That's like the common question and.

• 7:30Joe Rogan?

  My search page on Instagram is all butts.

• 7:34Speaker 02

  I, I assume it, it's something to do with like you follow this person and like? You get a bigger hit of dopamine probably from being able to hypoth- potentially see more revealing? Something from somebody that you are like a fan of already?

• 7:53Joe Rogan?

  Interaction.

• 7:54Speaker 02

  Me, that I think is a big component too. Cause it's like, I think half the income is like uh, DMs.

• 8:00Joe Rogan?

  Well, there was some Google guy, some executive at Google that was warning about what's going to happen with AI girlfriends. With these sort of indistinguishable AI girlfriends that are gonna interact with guys. And how this is gonna create like profound loneliness and all sorts of real problems. This episode is presented by Searchlight Pictures Wild Horse 9. Shortly before Chile's 1973 coup, two CIA agents, played by John Malkovich and Sam Rockwell, find their mission on Easter Island spiraling into a web of conspiracies, unexpected alliances, and chaos. Wild Horse 9, only in theaters Friday. Get tickets now. This episode is brought to you by The Farmer's Dog.

• 8:45Joe Rogan?

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• 9:28Joe Rogan?

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• 10:12Joe Rogan?

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• 10:55Joe Rogan?

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• 11:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, I imagine so. And I imagine a lot of the DM conversations are probably AI chat GPT already.

• 11:23Joe Rogan?

  Hundred percent.

• 11:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 11:24Joe Rogan?

  Or, you know, you got some Andrew Tate-type deal. There's a bunch of dudes who are like pounding on the keyboard where the girl shows her tits.

• 11:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 11:32Joe Rogan?

  Which is what he did for years.

• 11:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, innovator.

• 11:35Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 11:37Joe Rogan?

  At the curve.

• 11:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 11:38Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you're going to not have any idea whether it's even a real person, right? Because there's a bunch of AI-generated girlfriends, or girls rather, that have OnlyFans, where they don't even exist. They're not even a physical being.

• 11:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, there's some pretty big Instagram pages, I think, that are just like fake.

• 11:55Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 11:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, and it's just like, even I think they're owned by entities like companies that have like an army of AI chicks.

• 12:04Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 12:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 12:05Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 12:05Speaker 02

  Which is crazy.

• 12:06Joe Rogan?

  And they generate a lot of money.

• 12:08Speaker 02

  I've seen the comment section on a couple of them too. And shockingly, well, maybe not, I don't know. But there's a lot of people that are engaging with it like it's a real person. And I thought it was pretty obvious it was AI, but I mean, like, some people are pretty stupid.

• 12:21Joe Rogan?

  Well, there's a high percentage of people in this country that have a below 85 IQ.

• 12:25Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 12:26Joe Rogan?

  Like a real good percentage. Isn't it like 15 or 20%? Is it something nutty like that?

• 12:31Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, it's like it's the same amount that people that are like above that are gonna be below. It's like a standard deviation of like averages and stats.

• 12:39Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, there's people that are, they're about as smart as a Labrador.

• 12:44Joe Rogan?

  They just can talk, then you can trick them.

• 12:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 12:48Joe Rogan?

  You know, and if you can get those dumbasses that work at Subway to donate $5 a month, and you get enough of them.

• 12:55Speaker 02

  Have you seen the UFC collab with that OnlyFans chick?

• 13:00Joe Rogan?

  There's a UFC collab with an OnlyFans chick?

• 13:02Speaker 02

  Pull it up.

• 13:02Joe Rogan?

  What is this?

• 13:04Speaker 02

  So there's this girl who, to spark outrage and get engagement, she breaks like exotic cars. Like she'll stand on a Lambo and just smash the windshield or something.

• 13:15Joe Rogan?

  What?

• 13:16Speaker 02

  And just like shake her ass, and then it gets tons of views, and there's a bunch of guys freaking out because she's disrespecting a nice piece of machinery or whatever. But at the end of the day, she gets views from it, and then more people go to her page and sign up to it.

• 13:29Joe Rogan?

  But how much is a Lambo worth? Like Lambos are like half a million dollars, right?

• 13:33Speaker 02

  She'll smash like the windshield only, or like a window from like the driver's side, and then do some like call to action or something.

• 13:44Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 13:44Speaker 02

  Like pull up the UFC one, you'll be able to tell what I'm talking about better.

• 13:47Speaker 03

  I know the girl you're talking about, but I don't, I didn't know she did something with the UFC.

• 13:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, Dana White like posted it.

• 13:54Joe Rogan?

  What?

• 13:54Speaker 02

  He's like, "Check this shit out."

• 13:56Joe Rogan?

  What?

• 13:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 14:00Speaker 02

  Unless they un-

• 14:01Joe Rogan?

  Is it on UFC Instagram?

• 14:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was like a collaboration I saw a few days ago.

• 14:07Joe Rogan?

  Okay. What?

• 14:09Speaker 02

  They're giving away a McLaren or something for the next UFC event, I think.

• 14:12Joe Rogan?

  Oh.

• 14:13Speaker 02

  And she's the one who's talking about it after smashing the window of a Lambo.

• 14:16Joe Rogan?

  What?

• 14:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 14:17Joe Rogan?

  Real?

• 14:18Speaker 02

  I thought it was kind of a weird combo.

• 14:20Joe Rogan?

  This is the gal? Oh, don't do it. Don't. Is that a crowbar? Oh, what the fuck are you doing? Oh, Jesus.

• 14:29Speaker 04

  That's why I'm giving away this McLaren 600 LT at PowerSlap for free. Check out the links in our bios on how to enter.

• 14:38Joe Rogan?

  Wow, we're the dumbest fucking race.

• 14:41Speaker 02

  What are the accounts that collabed with it? It was UFC, right?

• 14:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, it was for Power Slap event.

• 14:47Joe Rogan?

  We are, of course it's for Power Slap. That's just as dumb. We are the dumbest motherfuckers that have ever lived. We really are.

• 14:53Speaker 02

  What do you think about Power Slap?

• 14:56Joe Rogan?

  I don't. I don't. I don't get it. Um, I've watched it a ton of times on like little Instagram reels. You know, when it shows up, I watch guys get KO'd. It's, I would never advise anybody to do it. I don't care how good you are getting slapped. I don't care how good you are at slapping people. For me, the whole idea of fighting is to hit and not get hit. The whole idea is the skill. It's like you impose your skill set. It's like a, you know, human chess game. That's the opposite. You're just standing in front of each other, whacking each other in the face. But I will watch. So if people want to do it, that's your jam, you know, if you're some giant fat guy.

• 15:36Joe Rogan?

  We see one of those guys actually had a fight, a dirty boxing fight with Yoel Romero. Who's like the freaks of all freaks.

• 15:44Speaker 02

  Dirty boxing king, dude.

• 15:46Joe Rogan?

  He's also super juicy now. He's a heavyweight now. So Yoel is 47. So he was competing under pretty rigorous testing with the UFC as far as like, you know, I'm sure you would disagree, but look at what he looks like now.

• 16:01Speaker 02

  We could talk about that later.

• 16:03Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, definitely. This is Yoel now.

• 16:07Joe Rogan?

  He smashes this guy. Look at the size of him. This is not a good video, Jamie. Find another video of it. There's the actual video of it from the fight event. That's like someone's camera from the side view. But he's huge. Yoel's like 220 now. 225, maybe? He's fucking massive.

• 16:25Speaker 02

  He used to suck down to 185 and then what would he walk in at though? I think like 2.

• 16:31Joe Rogan?

  Well, when he would weigh 185, this was back when Yoel was fighting, there was actual weigh-ins. You know, so right now there's actual weigh-ins, but it's a ceremonial weigh-in. Like tomorrow at the UFC, I'll host a ceremonial weigh-in. So the fighters weighed in at like 9 o'clock in the morning. The ceremonial weigh-in is at 5pm. They've had the entire day to rehydrate. So Yoel, back in those days, was 185 when you weighed in at 5pm at 185. And you couldn't believe he was 185. Cause I would be like 200 pounds and I'd be sitting there, I'm like, how?

• 17:07Joe Rogan?

  How am I bigger than you? This doesn't make, it's like defies all known laws of physics and gravity. Like it doesn't make any sense. He was massive. These enormous traps. He was one of the rare guys that when he would suck weight, he didn't look smaller. He still looked fucking huge, man.

• 17:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, he had like a really, he has really round muscle bellies. So it's almost like bodybuilder-esque. In terms of like how much, how much bigger you look just cosmetically too.

• 17:34Joe Rogan?

  So this guy that he's fighting is a slap fight guy. And look at the size of Yoel now.

• 17:40Speaker 02

  He's definitely less lean.

• 17:42Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, oh, he's less lean. He's eating whatever he wants, but he's still got a six pack. But he's fucking massive, dude.

• 17:49Speaker 02

  So how do you end up in this league? Like what was?

• 17:52Joe Rogan?

  Oh, I, I think this is Mike Perry's thing. I think he's putting this together. He's involved with it in some way, shape or form. So Yoel is just basically like toying with this guy. This guy has literally no business, no disrespect to the man, but no business in the, the ring with this world-class athlete.

• 18:10Speaker 02

  Like how much do you gotta get paid to go in and fight Yoel for this?

• 18:15Joe Rogan?

  Fifteen dollars. Like watch how he hops up in the air before he, he decides to go. What is that about? He just decides to like hop in the air. He's like, enough, let me end this. He just decides it's time to end it.

• 18:26Speaker 02

  Oh my god.

• 18:27Joe Rogan?

  He's fucking huge, dude. Look at his back. Look at his back. That guy used to weigh 185. And by the way, if, look at, see the back of his neck? He has a fully fused neck. If he wasn't, you know, 36 when he entered into the UFC, that's how old he was when he first started fighting. He was already past his professional prime when he first started fighting in the UFC. You know, if he had gotten into MMA when he was 20, probably nobody would have ever beaten him. He's the freak of all freaks. When it comes to like athletic specimens, like he's the freak.

• 19:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, when was his last fight in the UFC?

• 19:05Joe Rogan?

  Quite a while ago. Uh, he fought Adesanya, I wanna say five years ago. When did, when did he fight Israel? And I think maybe had one other fight other than that, but you know, he was knocking guys dead at 40.

• 19:21Speaker 02

  Dude, the cost.

• 19:22Speaker 03

  Right before the pandemic.

• 19:24Joe Rogan?

  What is it?

• 19:24Speaker 03

  March 7th, 2020.

• 19:26Joe Rogan?

  There you go. So that was his last fight in the UFC. So the last four years, he's been competing for Bellator. And so they're a little less stringent. They don't have a USADA deal or now, uh, whatever it's called, uh, drug-free sport. I think they call it now. That's the new company, which is essentially the same protocols, but they don't wake you up on the day of the weigh-ins or anything like that. USADA was gross. Like they would take these guys that are dehydrated, starving themselves, day before the fight, wake them up at 6 o'clock in the morning.

• 19:57Speaker 02

  Did you see that, uh, article I sent you about the USADA corruption?

• 20:01Joe Rogan?

  Yes. So let's talk about that.

• 20:03Speaker 02

  Yeah. So basically, and this was like a WADA press release too. So it's not like it was some journalist or something. It's like on the official WADA site and they were basically exposing how USADA was covering up, uh, test results. So.

• 20:18Joe Rogan?

  For which athletes?

• 20:20Speaker 02

  Uh, unnamed, uh, as far as.

• 20:22Joe Rogan?

  Which sports?

• 20:23Speaker 02

  They wouldn't say. They just said like Olympic level athletes and elite athletes and kept it very vague.

• 20:28Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 20:28Speaker 02

  And essentially they, they disclosed what they had tested positive for. And even that one of them was an Olympic caliber athlete and their entire career, they got to go until retirement without getting exposed just because they helped USADA supposedly catch other people.

• 20:45Joe Rogan?

  Oh, they were narcs?

• 20:46Speaker 02

  So like, yeah. So if you help them catch people, then you could get away with using like full board testosterone.

• 20:54Joe Rogan?

  No, really?

• 20:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 20:57Joe Rogan?

  Oh my God. So they're like a drug dealer that works for the government?

• 21:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 21:01Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 21:03Speaker 02

  And this was like one of the reasons of many why like Hunter and others are very critical of USADA and are glad they're not under it anymore.

• 21:13Joe Rogan?

  Well, there's a lot of stupidity with their regulations. Like one of them is BBC 157, which is natural in the human body, you know, and peptides. All they're doing is helping you heal.

• 21:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 21:24Joe Rogan?

  Really dealing with a sport where you beat the fucking shit out of each other every day in training. And you're not gonna like assist these people in healing, like wouldn't that only benefit everybody? There's no like fear of like harm, there's no, like no one's dying from BBC 157. Within the code, there's a provision whereby an athlete who provides substantial assistance can subsequently apply to have a proportion of their period of ineligibility suspended. Wow, look how they phrase that. What dirty language. Proportion of their period of ineligibility suspended. What does that mean? It means you're allowing them to cheat. However, there's a clear process for that, which does not involve allowing those who have cheated to continue to compete

• 22:07Joe Rogan?

  while they may or may not gather incriminating info. What, wait a minute, what are you saying then? So it doesn't do that. They're saying it doesn't do that.

• 22:15Speaker 02

  Well, at the bottom, WADA's now aware of at least three cases where athletes who had committed serious anti-doping rule violations were allowed to continue to compete for years while they acted as undercover agents.

• 22:24Joe Rogan?

  Okay, so they pretended that they wouldn't let someone compete if they were doping, but they still did.

• 22:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, like while they were on shit.

• 22:33Joe Rogan?

  Wow. Imagine if that's like boxing in the Olympics or something like that. The athlete was allowed to line up against their unknowing competitors as if they had never cheated. In that case, when USADA eventually admitted to WADA that what had been going on, it advised that any publication of consequences or disqualification of results would put the athlete's security at risk. What? And asked WADA to agree to non-publication. What? Secure, were they worried about that with Lance Armstrong? The fuck are you talking about, security at risk? In another case of a high level athlete, USADA never notified WADA of its decision to lift an athlete's provisional suspension, which is an appealable decision despite being required to do so under the code.

• 23:16Joe Rogan?

  Had WADA been notified, it would have never allowed this. Wow, interesting.

• 23:21Speaker 02

  And it sounds like this was. Somewhat how they operated as if they had a high profile enough person or certain circumstances, they would kind of autonomously decide, hey, if you work alongside us to catch other people because you might know something that we don't or what have you, then we'll just let you, you know, no one will know.

• 23:41Joe Rogan?

  That's so dirty. That's so dirty. That's literally contrary to the whole reason why they exist.

• 23:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 23:48Joe Rogan?

  What's really crazy is, I mean, according to the UFC, so what happened was the UFC had some disputes with them, decided to sever their relationship. And then Yisada like publicly said that UFC is going to allow their competitors to do steroids now, which is not the case at all. Like, they already had a contract in place with Drug Free Sport. I talked to the guy from Drug Free Sport and he was essentially laying out the, it was essentially identical. No BPC157, no testosterone, nothing. Like, you can't do anything.

• 24:19Speaker 02

  The standards are actually much higher now too in contrast. Like, Yisada would claim, or at least suggest, that they were doing full spectrum bulletproof testing, but it turned out they were almost never EPO testing. The HH testing was never really done. And then also the isoform, what was it? The isotope ratio mass spec was not really being done either.

• 24:46Joe Rogan?

  Was that a, like, a budget thing? Like, it was too expensive?

• 24:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's, I believe so. And also time intensive for some of these tests as well. And I guess for like, the number of tests they were conducting, perhaps it was too extensive. Or, I don't really know what the exact motivation was. Like, often you would think it comes down to budget and time, but also if you have an expert who just thinks it's not warranted to go further, like, the same way if you went to a doctor and you'd be like, should I test this? They'll be like, oh, if we know this, like, who cares? It's not necessary. Like, I don't necessarily know they went to the depth and rigor to claim somebody did or didn't cheat if I have, you know, preliminary data that you would exclude having to go further. Sometimes you don't have to, you know, test further if there's not.

• 25:33Speaker 02

  An atypical finding, so.

• 25:35Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but like, let's, if they're not testing for EPO, for example, and maybe there's a, an event in Mexico City. Right, which is 7,700 feet above sea level. That place is brutal. That, that's where Kane Velasquez, who was known as like, probably the greatest cardio heavyweight of all time. He fought Fabricio over doom and he did not prepare properly. Fabricio actually moved to the mountains above Mexico City and trained there for like four months. So Fabricio, he speaks fluent Spanish, lived in Mexico, like, he was really got ready. And he beat Kane Velasquez on that night to become the champion. And he had tremendous cardio and Kane was just dying. That's how brutal Mexico City is. So imagine when you're competing at that altitude,

• 26:20Joe Rogan?

  or maybe Colorado Springs, or one of these like really high altitude places, which we have events, Salt Lake City, and you don't test for EPO?

• 26:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, I'm saying.

• 26:31Joe Rogan?

  Crazy. That's crazy because that's the place where you would do it. Particularly if like you're defending your title, or you're challenging for a title.

• 26:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, and it's like, some of this stuff, even if you're looking for it, is quite difficult to detect anyways. Like, microdosing EPO is still, they're trying to refine the parameters and determine with greater scrutiny how to detect it.

• 26:52Joe Rogan?

  How long is the, like, the, the life it's detectable inside your body?

• 26:56Speaker 02

  Ah, I believe it's like, a few days. And that's if you're using like, that's not a microdose protocol either.

• 27:03Joe Rogan?

  Uh, well, how much of a benefit do you get from microdosing?

• 27:06Speaker 02

  Uh, fairly significant, given you can, even just retaining your baseline parameters if you're weight cutting, can be quite helpful. So it's almost like offsetting, for example, the suppression of hormones or the suppression of like, any sort of parameter that would decrease with heavy nutrient deprivation. If you can sustain it at normal, is performance enhancing, in contrast to your competitors who are also weight cutting and might not have the same advantages.

• 27:34Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's why TJ Dillashaw did it when he was dropping down to flyweight to fight Henry Cejudo, which is when he got popped. And, you know, but he was, he looked like a skeleton. Did you ever see those weight cut?

• 27:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, that was insane. I might be misspeaking on the detection time of EPO, by the way, but it's at, at minimum, the microdose protocols that are being implemented still.

• 27:56Speaker 02

  Even most recent literature, you find upwards of 50% of the studied participants where they're actually looking for it, still pass their testing.

• 28:05Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 28:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 28:07Joe Rogan?

  Wow. Well, one of the things that I've read about sauna is that sauna use, especially like directly after cardio, imparts like, like a microdose EPO effect. Have you read anything about that?

• 28:21Speaker 02

  Uh, not for, not recently, no. So, I don't know, maybe you could brush me up. Do you have a?

• 28:27Joe Rogan?

  I, well, maybe we could find it, but I know it's helped my cardio. It, it helps significantly because I went through an injury once where I couldn't do any kickboxing or any hitting the bag or anything for quite a while. And whenever I did come back from like three or four months off of that, it would be the first few days were fucking brutal. And it wasn't brutal at all. And it was because of regular sauna use. Sauna bathing can increase the production of EPO, a hormone that stimulates the production of red blood cells. This can improve endurance performance by increasing the amount of oxygen. Now, um, it says here's how plasma volume, when you sit in a sauna, you sweat, which comes from blood plasma. As your blood plasma levels decrease, your kidneys release EPO.

• 29:09Joe Rogan?

  So how do they detect endogenous versus exogenous EPO?

• 29:14Speaker 02

  It's similar to how they would detect for bio-identical testosterone, other hormones. They look for, does it look like a endogenous signature? So, different compounds, there's different ways to analyze, but in general, it's gonna be either the molecular mass of it, or something to that effect would be, have a blatant difference between what you would make naturally, nat- endogenously versus exogenous origin, which is the way they make it in a lab, does not necessarily look exactly the same. So even though it's EPO that you're injecting, it's actually like recombinant, AKA made in a lab and not like, it's not like they're literally pulling EPO out of a guy and then giving it to you. It's like grown in a lab, essentially.

• 29:59Joe Rogan?

  Right, right. Well, that was one of the things that Jeff Nowitzki actually, uh, said could Could be an issue is that it is possible, at least theoretically, to take testosterone from animals.

• 30:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:14Joe Rogan?

  So find a mammal-based testosterone instead of getting it from, so they created from wild yams, right?

• 30:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:22Joe Rogan?

  So wild yams from Mexico, apparently, where they get all the testosterone, when you buy testosterone sip and aid or whatever.

• 30:28Speaker 02

  And soy.

• 30:29Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, soy?

• 30:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:31Joe Rogan?

  What do you mean?

• 30:32Speaker 02

  They use soy to, like, the phyto, some of the compounds in the soy as well as yams look similar molecularly to the cholesterol that would get basically enzymatically converted to testosterone. So you can just manipulate that slightly to have like a highly reproducible at scale for low-cost way to make hormones, and that's how testosterone is made.

• 30:57Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that's interesting because soy is always associated with, like, soy boys.

• 31:01Speaker 02

  Bad stuff.

• 31:02Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's associated with high estrogen levels.

• 31:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think the two primary ways they synthesize.

• 31:08Joe Rogan?

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• 32:14Joe Rogan?

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• 32:53Speaker 02

  Testosterone now is soy and yams.

• 32:56Joe Rogan?

  So Nowitzki was saying that, at least in theory, a really good scientist could actually extract it from animals and then it would be impossible to differentiate.

• 33:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think maybe the first time I came on, we talked about the carbon isotope ratio testing and having a CIR proof testosterone formulation if athletes are doing that. And I did dig into it after we talked about it a bit more and it does seem like there's strong evidence that suggests they're aware of it and are trying to find new ways to refine even the carbon isotope ratio testing. Now they're looking at like hydrogen ratios because it's more minute and specific apparently as opposed to with the carbon content. They've seen suspicious testosterone formulations that look similar to endogenous carbon isotope signatures. And your diet, even what you ingest can change what your signature is too.

• 33:50Speaker 02

  Cause they have to use as like a reference, they use, for example, from your urine, they'll find some other compound that is like upstream from testosterone, for example. And they will use that as a benchmark of like, this is what your signature is of the carbon content of sex hormones. And then if your testosterone has a different carbon isotope ratio than this, they know that, okay, however you got this in your body is different than the upstream hormone. So through that, we can infer that, you know, it's probably of exogenous origin. But if the exogenous origin one looks like the upstream hormones, like you, you would never be able to tell.

• 34:33Joe Rogan?

  So it's possible if you were sophisticated enough to make the exogenous look like the upstream.

• 34:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 34:40Joe Rogan?

  Even though you've injected it.

• 34:42Speaker 02

  Yeah. And if you had like animal grade testosterone or cholesterol even from like a medical grade, you know, compound facility or something like you could probably react it down and create like a C I R proof testosterone.

• 34:57Joe Rogan?

  God, it would be, it seems like it'd be hard to keep that under wraps for very long without it getting out.

• 35:01Speaker 02

  Maybe, yeah. But it's like the access to lab equipment and high level testing is not as a, the barrier is a lot lower than it used to be for sure. Like there are, I even have heard of people paying off Wada accredited labs to get like testing done.

• 35:16Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 35:17Speaker 02

  Yeah. So they could like assess where they stand in terms of like some of the testing that they would do to see if they'd pop or not.

• 35:24Joe Rogan?

  Is that legal?

• 35:25Speaker 02

  No.

• 35:26Joe Rogan?

  So they bribe Wada, they allegedly?

• 35:29Speaker 02

  There's Wada accredited labs, not just in the States, but like in other countries where they're a bit more corrupt and you can, you know, persuade them to test your samples.

• 35:38Joe Rogan?

  Oh, so you send your piss to Guatemala or somewhere?

• 35:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 35:42Joe Rogan?

  And then they go, yeah, señor, you got problems. Señor, this doesn't look good.

• 35:47Speaker 02

  Yeah. But yeah, if you do enough homework, you can, you know, develop a biological passport internally with your own team and, you know,

• 35:56Joe Rogan?

  Interesting.

• 35:57Speaker 02

  Know you're bulletproof rather than just guessing.

• 36:00Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Well, there was some concern with Brock Lesnar at one point in time, uh, before he tested positive. And, um, one of the concerns was that he was testing himself, that he had gotten tested like a number of times, which generally you don't do.

• 36:19Speaker 02

  Now, why was that, uh, recorded though? Like that they have his, uh, medical records? Cause you can just like pay for blood tests and urine analysis.

• 36:28Joe Rogan?

  I might be speaking out of turn. Uh, I might be speaking out of school here. I don't remember. I don't remember the thing, but I remember someone who knows things telling me.

• 36:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 36:38Joe Rogan?

  You know, I'm kinda on the inside. So someone, someone who knows things on the inside told me, dude, he got tested like 20 fucking times or something crazy like that during camp.

• 36:47Speaker 02

  Oh, he was for sure trying to get around them.

• 36:49Joe Rogan?

  Well, he's also pissed hot. This is when he fought Mark Hunt and there's a giant lawsuit involved right now.

• 36:55Speaker 02

  Oh, wow.

• 36:55Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I don't know if that lawsuit has been, if it's still ongoing or what the deal was, but Mark Hunt was furious.

• 37:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 37:03Joe Rogan?

  It was obvious when you look at the guy. I mean, he was like 39 years old, 300 pounds, like cutting down at 265. He was fucking huge, man.

• 37:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, what's even more interesting too is the storage of samples. A lot of sports don't actually do it. So with Olympic testing, oftentimes the positive test results come retroactively to years in the past. So once they've refined the testing and actually are able to detect, you know, long-term metabolites of tournai ball or something of that nature. But in a lot of sports, like especially in the, in the US for like traditional professional sports, they're not storing urine typically.

• 37:43Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 37:44Speaker 02

  So if you have more refined testing get developed, oftentimes there's no way to actually penalize an athlete who was ahead of the testing curve at the time.

• 37:52Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 37:53Speaker 02

  And at least from what I've seen, there's a really good paper. Um, uh, one of the guys I know who's on the inside on this, his name is Alex Caliari Turner. He has excellent information and studies on this stuff, but he did a paper that basically outlined how I think 75% of the medalists that have tested positive in the Olympics, at the Summer Olympic Games for the past, I don't know, it was like a full decade of, um, analyzation. It was like 75% of them tested years later, not at the actual time of winning their medal. So if they're only being popped, you know, three out of four people are getting popped retroactively over a half decade later or more.

• 38:34Speaker 02

  Based on advancements in testing, you can just imagine how many sports are getting away with passing testing, given that retroactively, they're not being tested at all.

• 38:44Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 38:46Speaker 02

  So it's like, if you're ahead of the curve now, there are a lot of sports where as long as you pass the test now, even if what you took had a more refined assay developed, you know, five years from now, they're not going to go get your sample and retry it.

• 38:59Joe Rogan?

  Right. That makes sense. But wasn't there a famous Russian wrestler who was popped because they went back and looked at his, uh, his old stud? Like, once they developed new testing protocols?

• 39:12Speaker 02

  Wasn't an Olympic athlete? Yeah. That's why, because Olympic Games, they started storing, uh, samples 2004.

• 39:19Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 39:19Speaker 02

  So they're a bit more rigorous about that. And there are, there are probably some sports that store, but the majority don't.

• 39:25Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 39:26Speaker 02

  Yeah. And it's like, you know, you could say it's corruption, or you could say it's, you know, people trying to, the sport trying to cover it up, but I think sometimes it's just like budget constraints too. Cause it's like, you still have to be a profitable enterprise and

• 39:39Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 39:39Speaker 02

  You know, I, I don't know how much you can, you know, scrutinize the economics on something like that.

• 39:45Joe Rogan?

  You're also managing at scale, right? Like, how many athletes are you dealing with?

• 39:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 39:49Joe Rogan?

  How much time do you have to go back and, you know, review all the different urine samples and go back?

• 39:56Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah. No, but it gets crazy because it kind of, it highly suggests that in a lot of sports, as long as you're ahead of the curve, you're probably good.

• 40:07Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 40:08Speaker 02

  Now, obviously you have to actually beat the test now, which is more and more rigorous by the year, of course, but at least historically, what we've seen is it's, the testing usually lags behind the methods that are being developed to get around it.

• 40:22Joe Rogan?

  Is there anything right now that is not being tested for that you think is effective?

• 40:29Speaker 02

  Um, yeah, like in general, the most effective stuff is going to be bioidenticals, which are being tested for, but it's like at the scale, it's kind of up for debate because sometimes they don't test at all. Like, you know, we saw with USADA, they were barely doing adequate in-depth testing for bioidenticals with no EPO testing or HGH testing. So I would say those are probably the go-tos, you know, like EPO especially and HGH. Um, there are other compounds that I think some people think they can get away with that sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. Like, um, I think it's called tramtazidine. There was some like top level tennis player who just popped like a week ago or something.

• 41:12Joe Rogan?

  And what is that?

• 41:12Speaker 02

  It's like an angina medication that the entire China Olympic team got popped for a few years back. Yeah, it was like 23 Chinese swimmers before the Tokyo Olympics got popped using this thing. And then they claimed it was like food contamination or something. And they were like, oh, that's, I guess that's what happened. And then a bunch of those, two of those athletes won medals in the recent Paris Olympics and 11 of them were allowed to compete still.

• 41:42Joe Rogan?

  What does it do?

• 41:43Speaker 02

  It shifts your efficiency of fuel utilization. So basically, in general, to create ATP, your body would oxidize fatty acids as well as glucose. And in endurance events, which is heavily oxygen sapping, if you can shift, which is what this drug does, it inhibits a process by which your body proportionally oxidizes more glucose than fatty acids, which is a less oxygen intensive process. So you can basically conserve oxygen proportional to the amount of ATP you're producing. So in an endurance event, if you can have more oxygen for less cost internally, then it's highly performance enhancing.

• 42:29Speaker 02

  Or it should be, you know, it's kind of speculative as to if it's actually performance enhancing, but it's kind of a weird coincidence how many people have popped for this drug. Oh, by the way, you said, the first time I was here, you said, uh, uh, the Russian Olympics, the only people who didn't pop were the figure skaters.

• 42:44Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 42:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, there was a Russian figure skater who was 15, who was on this angina medication.

• 42:50Joe Rogan?

  Well, that kind of makes sense, right? Because one thing you would want is more oxygen and endurance when you're figure skating. It's pretty cardio intensive when you're spinning around and flying around.

• 42:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 42:59Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 42:59Speaker 02

  Oh, for sure.

• 43:00Joe Rogan?

  But they said that steroids, it found, they found that like gross motor skills, you're like, he's so loud, dude, you can nudge him, keep him from fucking snoring so loud.

• 43:11Joe Rogan?

  But they, they found that like testosterone and things along those lines, like actual steroids, it was not good to be stronger as a figure skater, that it didn't enhance. But that was, that was Gregory, whatever his name was from Icarus.

• 43:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. And like, I could see, obviously the compound selection will differ greatly depending on what sport, cause you know, there are some sports where, you know, being heavier is going to be problematic.

• 43:38Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 43:38Speaker 02

  And you might, you know, want something that could enhance, I don't know, your cognitive capacity or whatever it may be, or like slow down your heart rate, for example, for archery or

• 43:50Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 43:51Speaker 02

  Different applications for sure.

• 43:53Joe Rogan?

  Like beta blockers.

• 43:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, like for archery, for example, things like propranolol, like highly effective, as well as for, you know, public speaking, playing piano publicly. I think there's like, famous pianists who use this drug too.

• 44:06Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I've heard of people using beta blockers.

• 44:08Speaker 02

  Snipers too.

• 44:09Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 44:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 44:10Joe Rogan?

  Makes sense, right?

• 44:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 44:13Joe Rogan?

  Is dropping that, that anxiety response?

• 44:16Speaker 02

  Yeah. And if it crosses the blood brain barrier like propranolol does, it actually calms you down very significantly. It's not just about lowering the heart rate. It also like, de-stresses you, like it's an anti-anxiety drug essentially.

• 44:29Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 44:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 44:32Speaker 02

  You've never tried it?

• 44:33Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 44:33Speaker 02

  For archery?

• 44:34Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 44:35Speaker 02

  I'd be wondering if it was a...

• 44:36Joe Rogan?

  I thought about doing it once. I even asked my doctor about it. He was gonna get it for me, but I was like, I don't wanna cheat. Like, half of the bow hunting thing is about being able to keep your shit together.

• 44:46Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 44:47Joe Rogan?

  And if you could just do it.

• 44:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 44:48Joe Rogan?

  Like, if I could just shoot at a deer the way I'd shoot at a target.

• 44:51Speaker 02

  Right.

• 44:52Joe Rogan?

  I don't think it would be the same.

• 44:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, fair enough, yeah.

• 44:54Joe Rogan?

  It's like, part of it is like...

• 44:56Speaker 02

  You're a purist.

• 44:56Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, in that regard. Because part of it is the discipline of managing your mind.

• 45:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 45:03Joe Rogan?

  That's what I like about it.

• 45:04Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 45:04Joe Rogan?

  I like that it's hard to do.

• 45:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 45:06Joe Rogan?

  I don't want it to be easier, you know? It's fucking hard to do, and that's literally why I like it. Like, if I could take a drug that would make it easier to do, I don't think I would like it. I'm very effective right now. I'm very... I'm real successful at bow hunting, you know, relatively, for like, it's a non... If, like, I go to a lot of really great places to hunt because I have money, I'm fortunate, but relatively speaking, bow hunting is not a successful endeavor. It's like, maybe 10% of the hunts, like, but people get tags, maybe, probably less in most places.

• 45:39Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 45:40Joe Rogan?

  Actually harvest an animal.

• 45:42Speaker 02

  How often do you do it?

• 45:44Joe Rogan?

  I do it twice a year. I go on a big elk hunt, and I do like, a bunch of pig hunts and stuff like that. In between that, maybe one deer hunt.

• 45:53Speaker 02

  And it's like, how intensive of a prep is it? And like, the whole process of doing the trip is a like, a multi-day thing, or...

• 46:03Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I go for like, a week. Um, the really intensive part, though, is the preparation for it. And I was gonna tell you about this too, because I actually fucked my body up getting ready for this one. So, when, uh, hunting season approaches, for like, three months out of hunting season, I ramp up all my cardio and all my bow hunt, my archery. So, I practice in my backyard. I practice archery. I'm shooting at 85 yards. I shoot an 84-pound bow, and I might shoot it 100 times a day. So, I'm pulling 80 pounds, 84 pounds, 100 times in a day. And I'm doing it day after day after day after day. I do it five, six days a week. So, I was developing... Like severe pain in my lower back on my right side that led to like sciatica.

• 46:48Joe Rogan?

  And I was also developing some severe neck pain on my right side. So this is, it's all, it's really an unbalanced thing, right? Because I really should draw something back with my, I should probably like at least draw back my bow with my left hand as many times I draw back with my right, but I don't. So you draw back, so I'm pulling, it's eighty-four pounds to pull it back. It's at least for the beginning of the cycle and then the cams rotate over and it significantly lowers. Like the holding weight is, I think my holding weight is like twenty percent, twenty or twenty-five percent of the actual weight of the bow. But what happens is as you're pulling back and you lock it in place, the way archery works is you want to, what's called pull at the wall, right?

• 47:32Joe Rogan?

  So where the string hits the end where it can't pull anymore on a compound bow, I'm pulling hard against that wall. So I'm steady, right? And then I'm, I'm trying to relax this shoulder and pull and I'm stabilizing everything with this lower back, with my lower back muscle. So on my right side, it was just getting locked up, like painful and stiff and sore and like hurt even when I walk and I would just keep going. I would do it for hours, three hours a day, just hours and hours and hours. And I just developed a real problem to the point where like when I was, the last trip when I was going up hills, my, my hips were getting numb. Like my glutes weren't firing, I was getting sciatic pain, it was pretty bad.

• 48:16Joe Rogan?

  So I knew after hunting season was over, I was gonna have to address it. So I got some stem cell shots, which definitely helped. I started doing a lot of stretching, no archery for a couple of months, a lot of like hard foam, like it's, I have a, from Elite Flexibility. They make like a PVC roller with like a very thin layer, so it's very hard. And I was doing a lot of rolling, rolling in the sauna, cold plunge, sauna, stretching. And it was getting a little better slowly, but it was brutal, like it was taking a long time to recover. And then I started doing this thing called New Fit. And what New Fit is, is electrical muscular stimulation while you're going through exercise routines.

• 48:58Joe Rogan?

  And so they slap these electro pads all over your muscles and fully contract you. And then you go through exercises while you're doing it. And it's like significantly increased my rehabilitation. I've only been doing it for a few weeks too. I've only been doing it for like three weeks. All my back pain's gone, mobility's back, no more sciatica at all, no issues at all. And everything is like much looser. It's like coming back.

• 49:25Speaker 02

  So do you find that more effective than stem cells?

• 49:28Joe Rogan?

  No, I think it's the combination of things. It's very hard to tell like what is actually working. But when you add one thing and then all of a sudden you get a significant response. I'm assuming that this New Fit thing is having at least responsible for, I mean, there's some sort of synergistic effect, right? Cause I'm using peptides, I got this, like I said, I got stem cells shot into it. So this is like, and it takes a while for the stem cells to take place. I'm sure that's part of it. But then this New Fit thing's pretty significant. So I've been doing that quite a lot. I've been doing that four days a week. And it's legit, man. It's really legit. I know Mike Tyson was using that when he was preparing for the fight with Jake Paul.

• 50:12Joe Rogan?

  So I know a lot of other athletes.

• 50:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 50:15Joe Rogan?

  Use it, a lot of people use it for rehabilitation. It's like, it really reduces the amount of time that you have to recover from like surgeries and injuries and stuff like that.

• 50:23Speaker 02

  What else are you using now as part of your?

• 50:26Joe Rogan?

  Nothing new, nothing new. Still BPC157, TB500, you know, ipamoralin, stuff like that. Like the same stuff that I've always used before. This is the only thing that I've done that's really new, this New Fit. Have you ever seen it before?

• 50:42Speaker 02

  No.

• 50:43Joe Rogan?

  See if you can find like some examples of, cause like I said, Tyson was using it.

• 50:48Speaker 02

  So it's no more time intensive because it's during training?

• 50:52Joe Rogan?

  So you're, what you're doing is, uh, so I'm doing it for rehabilitation. So, uh, so this is what it looks like. So they slap these electrodes to you. So your muscles are just like locked up depending on how much you can tolerate. You know, so I, I get them to crank that fucker up. And when you're doing it, your muscles are like completely flexed through the whole thing. It's like, it's kinda painful. And then while you're doing that, you're going through all these different exercises.

• 51:21Speaker 02

  Okay. So they're like, kind of rehabilitative type exercises as opposed to the actual workout that you'd be doing?

• 51:29Joe Rogan?

  For me, what I'm doing is rehabilitative, but other people do it for hypertrophy. And bodybuilders do it apparently to like, say if like you've got like trap issues, like you don't like, you need to like have one area where you want to improve. They're slapping it to that area and then doing all these exercises.

• 51:49Speaker 02

  An entrepreneur that I'm friends with asked me what I thought about it as like a replacement for exercise.

• 51:54Joe Rogan?

  Oh, just a replacement?

• 51:56Speaker 02

  Yeah. And it was like such like a rich person question. Like, how do I not go to the gym and still like go to the gym?

• 52:04Joe Rogan?

  There was a place in Boston, when I lived there in the, the eighties that had that. I forget what it was called, but you would basically go there and their claim was they would get you, you'd have a six pack, you'd get jacked and all you have to do is lay there. Lay there and they put these electrodes on you just.

• 52:23Speaker 02

  Have you ever seen those like, uh, ancient, uh, like belly shaking things for like women to lose body fat?

• 52:30Joe Rogan?

  Like back in the forties, they just sit there shaking back and forth?

• 52:33Speaker 02

  No, I'm sure it's, it's more effective than that, obviously. Which did nothing, but I don't think it's a replacement. And I would imagine, I would speculate that the time it would take to stimulate yourself, if it's for hypertrophy, if you just worked out more, you'd probably get better results.

• 52:51Joe Rogan?

  Perhaps. It's the, the idea is that it's enhancing you past what you would normally get. Because you're in this very unique state of constant contraction. So there's no contract, relax, contract, relax. You are just contracted. You're just.

• 53:12Joe Rogan?

  And then you're going through all these exercises. So you have to kind of force your way through the exercises while you're contracted. It's kind of difficult.

• 53:19Speaker 02

  I think if you're injured, it probably has a lot of viability, but I would be highly suspect of it being used for like a guy trying to break a plateau who's a veteran lifter, for example.

• 53:30Joe Rogan?

  Right, right, right. Yeah, I would agree.

• 53:32Speaker 02

  And no bodybuilders I know attribute any success to something like this.

• 53:37Joe Rogan?

  Right. Well, this guy was telling me that some bodybuilders use to target areas that they like of having difficulty, like maybe your calves. Like people have a difficult time growing calf muscles.

• 53:48Speaker 02

  Most, uh, biggest nuisance of a body part genetically.

• 53:52Joe Rogan?

  It's calf. Well, look at John Jones. That's the craziest thing. Like one of the best kickers in the sport, no calves. They're like non-existent.

• 54:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's so genetically predetermined seemingly that, you know, you'll have guys who are top Olympia caliber bodybuilders. And if they haven't had calves for their whole career, they don't suddenly develop them, even though they obviously know how to train. And then people will shit on them and say, you have no calves, bro. Like learn how to train. It's like, this is my job. Like, do you think I don't know what to do with fucking calf raises?

• 54:23Joe Rogan?

  But they just won't grow?

• 54:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, like proportionally so. They lag behind significantly. And it's pretty obvious when somebody has a liking body part when they're on stage. But it is like a very, very, uh, uh, difficult area to locally, you know, if you don't have the genetics for it and the muscle bellies, it's very difficult to make a bad looking calf look good.

• 54:44Joe Rogan?

  It's weird because you get to go like John where everything else is pretty big, you know? He's got big chest, big arms.

• 54:51Speaker 02

  And this is not to say don't train calves because people get all riled up about, you know, skipping leg days and stuff.

• 54:58Joe Rogan?

  Well, especially for performance, you know, like you certainly need strong calf muscles for performance. So you can make them stronger. They just don't necessarily get aesthetically pleasing.

• 55:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, there's definitely ways to optimally train them that maybe not everyone does. But in general, like, it seems like if they're lagging behind for you, it's, it's pretty difficult to bring them up.

• 55:19Joe Rogan?

  That's weird. What a weird body part.

• 55:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. It's like one of the worst offenders.

• 55:24Joe Rogan?

  Is there anything else like that? Any other body parts that are like notoriously difficult to train?

• 55:28Speaker 02

  Uh, that's a good question. Um.

• 55:34Speaker 02

  Probably, there's probably something that I'm not thinking of. I don't know. Neck, maybe, but that's pretty easy to train, actually. It's just not many people do it.

• 55:45Joe Rogan?

  Well, with neck, you gotta be careful, though. You know, I use an iron neck, which I really believe in. It's like the only thing that I've ever done that's strengthened my neck and not caused me any neck problems. Whereas I think those other ones, like, you know those things where you put like the leather helmet on with the chain?

• 56:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 56:02Joe Rogan?

  I think that's an unusual movement for your neck. And I think you could probably get away with it. I know a lot of wrestlers, including Mike Tyson, who fucked their neck up from neck bridges.

• 56:14Speaker 02

  Have you seen the F1 drivers' workout routines?

• 56:17Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 56:18Speaker 02

  Dude, pull up.

• 56:19Joe Rogan?

  Oh, they would have to have crazy necks.

• 56:21Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, that's like what they do for their training, mostly, seemingly.

• 56:25Joe Rogan?

  Oh, you have to have a neck.

• 56:25Speaker 02

  They're just sitting there with like a giant fucking contraption on their head, just like.

• 56:30Joe Rogan?

  Like an iron neck.

• 56:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 56:31Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 56:32Speaker 02

  But it's like, it seems even more intensive, like it's a...

• 56:36Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but see, what I'm saying is they're not bending the neck, right? So what they're doing is they're forcing their muscles to stabilize the neck as they're facing resistance, right?

• 56:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 56:47Joe Rogan?

  But what they're not doing is bending all the way down and bending all the way up with weight, which I think is what's unusual. And I think that's just a weird strain on the discs. And with a lot of guys, especially wrestlers, where they get strained from is like someone grabbing them with a collar tie and like pulling their head down, and they get it real low, and then they're resisting that. You can fuck your neck up that way, or fighting off a guillotine, or a Darce choke, or a triangle, where you're like really fucked up and distorted, and you're resisting against it, you could fuck your neck up. So what the iron neck does that I really like is you're rotating and you can adjust the resistance on the rotation.

• 57:29Joe Rogan?

  So you have this halo, you put it on your head, you pump it like a Reebok pump, and if like form fits to your head, you put a chin strap on, and then you back up. And so it's got a bungee cord, so a very stiff rubber cord. And as you're pulling back, you have a lot of resistance this way. And then you could rotate, and then on the rotation, you could adjust the resistance, you can make it more difficult. But you're never doing any of this stuff. And I think this stuff is where, at least from what I've seen, people get hurt. Especially neck bridges. Neck bridges where your whole body.

• 58:04Speaker 02

  Oh, I can imagine.

• 58:04Joe Rogan?

  And you're doing all this and you're rolling, like Tyson, you ever seen Tyson's neck bridge routine when he was younger?

• 58:09Speaker 02

  No.

• 58:10Joe Rogan?

  Well Tyson had a 20 inch neck.

• 58:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 58:12Joe Rogan?

  20 inches. You know how crazy that is? His neck would start at the top of his head when he was young. I mean, he had a fucking massive neck.

• 58:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 58:19Joe Rogan?

  But it's one of the reasons why he was also so good at taking a punch.

• 58:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 58:22Joe Rogan?

  Because his head didn't snap around, like, look at his neck when he was young. That neck is crazy dude. That's a crazy neck.

• 58:29Speaker 02

  Parallel with his head.

• 58:29Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, like, see, look, this is what he would do every day in training.

• 58:33Speaker 02

  Holy shit, that looks.

• 58:34Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 58:35Speaker 02

  Rough.

• 58:35Joe Rogan?

  But this wrestler bridge does strengthen your neck, but at a cost. And I don't think it's at a cost for everybody. I think it probably can be done safely. But I think you probably have to scale up very slowly and very carefully. And make sure that you have the supporting tissue and strength around that to not compromise your discs. You know, like when you're in these weird positions, like, you're never supposed to have all, you know, at least bridging with like 60% of your weight. Sideways on your neck like this and then roll it over the side and then roll it over the side. While you're putting all the weight on the back of your head or on your forehead. That's just crazy. That's.

• 59:15Speaker 02

  Yeah. Oh, yeah, I would, uh, that looked fucking sketch dude.

• 59:19Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Well, Mike had to get neck surgery. Yoel Romero, like I said, had his whole neck fused. His neck doesn't, ever seen him run?

• 59:26Speaker 02

  No, but it probably looks hilarious.

• 59:28Joe Rogan?

  See, find the video Yoel Romero sprinting. It's nuts. His neck doesn't move. It's like this. Like a robot.

• 59:35Speaker 02

  Like a Terminator.

• 59:36Joe Rogan?

  But it's also why Yoel can take crazy punishment. Like Yoel got head kicked once by, I think it was Derek Brunson, head kicked him. And he didn't even move. Like, look at him run.

• 59:46Joe Rogan?

  So his neck doesn't move. His entire neck is completely fused. And he has this giant scar on the back of his neck.

• 59:54Joe Rogan?

  He is a freak though dude.

• 59:56Speaker 02

  Did you ever get the impression that if he just like threw himself into the fire more in fights, he probably would have won a lot more?

• 1:00:02Joe Rogan?

  I don't know. I don't know if you can keep that kind of muscle mass and have the kind of cardio that you need to throw yourself into the fire more.

• 1:00:11Speaker 02

  Cause it was always, it was kinda hard to tell if he was gassed sometimes.

• 1:00:15Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:00:15Speaker 02

  And then he would all of a sudden burst out.

• 1:00:17Joe Rogan?

  Exactly.

• 1:00:18Speaker 02

  Like that Costa Romero fight is still to this day, one of my favorite fights ever.

• 1:00:24Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 1:00:24Speaker 02

  And I, I don't know, man. Like it almost, a lot of the Romero fights, it seems like, if he just started swinging and going in there, that he might be able to take out a lot of dudes, that he just let go to decision.

• 1:00:35Joe Rogan?

  Perhaps, but you have to like know how much gas you have in the tank and only he knows. And that style that he has is a style for someone who's very explosive. It's very smart. Cause you don't just explode and keep going. You won't last. You'll last two minutes and then you'll be dead.

• 1:00:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:00:51Joe Rogan?

  So what he does is like, he looks like so relaxed and then he explodes on you. And when he explodes on people, they don't see it coming because he's lulled you into this false sense of security by this slower speed that he moves at. Like, did you ever see his knockout of Chris Weidman?

• 1:01:06Speaker 02

  Probably.

• 1:01:06Joe Rogan?

  That's the perfect example of that. He caught Chris Weidman with a flying knee as Chris Weidman was coming in for a takedown. He just like lulled him into like, this is the speed we're moving at. We're gonna move at this speed. This is how we're fighting. Oh, I'm dodging your punches. Oh, I'm dodging. Ah! And then out of nowhere, bam, he hits him with his flying knee and just destroys his head. I mean, it was one of the most brutal, watch this. So see how he like moved? Boom!

• 1:01:32Speaker 02

  Oh my god.

• 1:01:34Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I mean, literally his whole body. Back it up again so we can see that one more time? Like before it happens? So they're fighting, he's got him on the ground. Oh, so here it is. So you see as he moves, he's not, boom, he just leaps into him. This is like a highlight thing. It's not showing the, the whole exchange, but in the fight, you know, Weidman's very aggressive, very tough and you know, pushing a pace, trying to get the takedowns. Weidman likes to. Push a strong pace and really wear on guys. And Yoel just would like, kinda like move and relax. And then out of nowhere, he would just blow on you.

• 1:02:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:02:11Joe Rogan?

  And that's what he did with Adesanya too. Like, that was a very boring fight, because Adesanya's like, I see your fucking game. I'm gonna stay out here and wait for you to charge in on me, I'm gonna counterattack. And Yoel was like, come on, come fight me. And he's like, ah, I know what you're doing. Because he exploded one time and caught Izzy with a left hand, like a powerful left hand. And Izzy's like, oh, Jesus Christ.

• 1:02:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:02:31Joe Rogan?

  This guy moves so fucking fast when he wants to. But he can't really fight like that for five minutes for five rounds. He can't really just keep exploding. That's like the problem with a guy like Conor McGregor. Like Conor McGregor was lethal for one or two rounds. But then you get into the third, fourth, and fifth. There's so much fast twitch muscle fiber engagement. There's so much explosion. It's like constant sprinting.

• 1:02:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, has he ever knocked out a guy after round two even?

• 1:03:01Joe Rogan?

  That's a good question. I don't know. I mean, he certainly could, right? I mean, he's not out of shape.

• 1:03:06Speaker 02

  I remember what you're saying, though, it was like the later rounds, it was so blatant, he was gassed.

• 1:03:11Joe Rogan?

  Well, he was so fast in the first couple of rounds. That was the thing. It's like, if he didn't fucking tune you up in those first couple of rounds, if you were like Nate Diaz, some indestructible zombie, and then you get into the later rounds, and you're fucking tired, like, how is this guy still here? And then Nate is just like slapping you and beating you up. And Nate can push that 50% pace forever.

• 1:03:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:03:33Joe Rogan?

  Him and his brother were very good at that. They didn't really explode. They just would like touch you. They'd just touch you all the time. And you can't breathe, because you don't have the time to relax, right? So if he's constantly hitting you with punches that aren't that hard, you're like, because you're always like, because you don't know if these punches are gonna be hard. And then occasionally would mix them up with like really hard shots. And so you always have to be ready for the hard shot, so you never get to breathe. You never get to relax. So you're constantly on edge. And you're just getting worn out. And he's relaxed, because he's just hitting you and touching you. And he's talking shit to you. What bitch? What bitch? What's going on bitch? And he keep hitting you, that's like 50%, like literally like-

• 1:04:13Joe Rogan?

  Like this, not really trying to hurt you at all, just, just constantly making you tense up and just drain your gas tank.

• 1:04:20Speaker 02

  Uh, they uh seem relentless.

• 1:04:22Joe Rogan?

  Oh dude, well, his cardio, Nick Diaz especially, his cardio was insanity. He swam back from Alcatraz, he did it on. This episode is brought to you by ZipRecruiter. Believe it or not, the holiday season is here again. And that means you might need to fill some seasonal roles, fast. Maybe you need extra cashiers or stockers, or maybe something more unique like a lead elf. Or an expert gift wrapper, or a Zamboni driver. Whoever you're looking for, whatever skills you need to power through the rest of the year. ZipRecruiter is one of the best places to start your search. Because you can try it for free at ziprecruiter.com/rogan.

• 1:05:04Joe Rogan?

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• 1:05:47Joe Rogan?

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• 1:06:23Joe Rogan?

  The promo code J R E. That's promo code J R E. Or go to lifelock.com slash J R E for thirty percent off. Terms apply. Five different occasions. In the ocean with great white sharks. What is it like a mile and a half or something like that? In the fucking freezing cold Pacific Northwest Ocean?

• 1:06:44Speaker 02

  I don't know.

• 1:06:45Joe Rogan?

  How far is Alcatraz? How far is the swim? They used to think you couldn't do it. They used to think no one could survive it. So that's why they put Alcatraz there. Like, put a prison out there, they're fucked. But a couple of guys did escape and they don't know what happened to them. They found their clothes at the beach and there's speculation that at least one guy survived it, but how are you gonna train? You can't train to swim and then you're gonna just swim for a mile and a half?

• 1:07:10Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:07:10Joe Rogan?

  You're not gonna make it.

• 1:07:11Speaker 02

  I don't know. What's cardio regimens in prison? I would have no idea.

• 1:07:17Joe Rogan?

  I mean, you could do cardio, but you're not gonna recreate swimming without swimming. The resistance, the current, like, all of it.

• 1:07:25Speaker 02

  And temperature regulation.

• 1:07:26Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. You're just not gonna be able to recreate that unless you're doing it. And they're not gonna let you practice. Like, guys, just gonna do laps around Alcatraz. Like, get the fuck out of here. How far is it, Jamie? Mile and a half. So, a mile and a half in the fucking ocean with sharks.

• 1:07:43Speaker 02

  When was this that these prisoners escaped? Like, was this decades ago?

• 1:07:47Joe Rogan?

  Was that a Clint Eastwood movie? Escape from Alcatraz. Did you see it?

• 1:07:51Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:07:51Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it was a movie about the actual escape from Alcatraz. These guys had made a papier-mache model of their face. And like, put it like with, put some pillows and shit and threw a blanket over it. And the guards, when they would go to check, thought these guys were still in their bed. Meanwhile, they had tunneled a hole through the wall of the, of the, of the cell. Nineteen seventy-nine film Escape from Alcatraz presented inconclusive conclusions. What does that mean? On one of the island's enduring mysteries told the true story of three men, Frank Morris and the brothers Clarence and John Anglin, uh, who made it out of the prison in June of nineteen sixty-two were never seen again. Nobody knows for sure whether they made good on their escape or drowned in the attempt.

• 1:08:32Joe Rogan?

  True stories like that and others embellished tales of man-eating sharks and killer currents spread by prison guards as a deterrent contributed to the mythology of unassailable Alcatraz and the impossible swim.

• 1:08:45Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's definitely not impossible, cuz Nick D hasn't done it five fucking times. But people do it all the time now, you know, it's like an endurance thing that people constantly do now.

• 1:08:54Speaker 03

  Someone did it nine hundred and seventy-nine times, this guy.

• 1:08:56Joe Rogan?

  Whoa.

• 1:08:58Speaker 03

  He does it monthly.

• 1:08:59Joe Rogan?

  Oh, my god, what a fucking psycho. Nine hundred and seventy-nine times, that is rolling the dice on sharks, bro.

• 1:09:07Speaker 02

  And what happens when you, like Alcatraz is, uh, still operating?

• 1:09:13Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 1:09:14Speaker 02

  No, no, okay.

• 1:09:15Joe Rogan?

  No, it wasn't operating.

• 1:09:16Speaker 02

  Oh, it's like a tourist attraction, right?

• 1:09:18Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, when I was a kid, we went to visit it and with school. They took, when I lived in San Francisco, they took us to Alcatraz, a field trip, it was pretty cool. You get to be in these prisons where all these people used to get, it's very weird.

• 1:09:30Speaker 02

  Why did it shut down?

• 1:09:32Joe Rogan?

  I don't know, it's a good question. Why'd they shut Alcatraz down? Maybe when they figured out people could swim it.

• 1:09:38Speaker 02

  Good reason.

• 1:09:39Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I mean.

• 1:09:41Speaker 02

  It's not unassailable, close it down.

• 1:09:43Joe Rogan?

  It's gotta take a long time, though, like how, in a mile and a half in the ocean, how long's that take?

• 1:09:48Speaker 03

  Some people think it was because those guys got away, but it was because it was too expensive to continue operating.

• 1:09:54Joe Rogan?

  That makes sense, right? You gotta get all the supplies and out there by boat, by ferry.

• 1:09:58Speaker 03

  I don't even think they had that many prisoners there.

• 1:10:01Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 1:10:01Speaker 03

  Like, you know.

• 1:10:02Joe Rogan?

  But they had like super dangerous ones there, right? Wasn't that the whole idea, it was all murderers? I think it was like, like, super maximum security, like for the biggest psychos, they put them on Alcatraz.

• 1:10:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, what was that movie, I think Sean Connery movie as well?

• 1:10:17Joe Rogan?

  Rock, yeah.

• 1:10:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's about that, right?

• 1:10:20Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:20Speaker 02

  I think, yeah.

• 1:10:21Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I think that was about it, too. Yeah, but, you know, guys who have extreme cardio, like that, that's a real weapon. Like, guy, like, power is important in the, well, it's always important, but.

• 1:10:35Joe Rogan?

  Cardio is one of the most important things because you just, when you get tired, you don't think right. You don't have, you don't make good decisions. And then you also, you, you just, you're just not as effective. You're, you're not gonna scramble out of positions, you're gonna relax a little, try to catch your breath. Like if you get taken down, you're not gonna like completely exert. Chuck Liddell said this to me once, he said, "When guys get taken down, they accept the takedown." And the thing is, they get taken down and then they try to work their way back up to their feet. He goes, "I never did that. When I got taken down, the moment my back touched the ground, it was like hot lava." And I just exploded immediately. I never let them hold me. And that was the key to never getting taken down and held down.

• 1:11:17Joe Rogan?

  Is that the moment, he, he's a really good wrestler as well, obviously, but the moment someone would take him down, he would never accept it. He would just, some guys accept it, like fuck, I got taken down, alright. You know, overhook, underhook, you know, like control posture, work my full guard, try to get back up, try to bide time where I have enough energy to escape. And figure out, am I gonna try to sweep him? Am I gonna, you know, am I gonna try to pummel and, and try to get back up to my feet? Am I gonna try to scoot back to the cage? Bunch of different strategies to try to get back up. But the thing is like, when you're tired, you'll accept that takedown. And when you see guys accept the takedown and just pull full guard, like that guy's fucking tired, you know?

• 1:11:57Speaker 02

  It was like the recent, uh, Oliveira fight. It was like tough to watch some of the parts where it was just like, oh, it's, you know, you're on the ground now and you're fucked.

• 1:12:05Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah. Well, that fight was crazy, huh?

• 1:12:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:12:10Joe Rogan?

  Michael Chandler almost fucking had him in that fifth round. Almost had him. I mean, what a relentless motherfucker that guy is.

• 1:12:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:12:17Joe Rogan?

  Man, he was getting his ass kicked for four rounds and then finally almost fucks him up.

• 1:12:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, it's, uh, crazy when it comes down to like, you know, do or die mode, how many times it almost turns around.

• 1:12:29Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm. Well, it's also crazy that a guy like him, who is pretty heavily muscled. And is just such a fucking training machine that he has that ultimate gas tank even in the fifth round, just explode. And like in the fifth round, he was going hard, which is why I always thought he was a super dangerous fight for Conor.

• 1:12:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, he almost seems like a better cardio like Shawn Shirk or something.

• 1:12:54Joe Rogan?

  Right. Well, Shawn Shirk was one of the first guys who really did have crazy cardio.

• 1:12:58Speaker 02

  Did he?

• 1:12:58Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:59Speaker 02

  I thought he was so.

• 1:13:00Joe Rogan?

  For the time.

• 1:13:01Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:13:01Joe Rogan?

  He was a fitness fanatic, like a conditioning fanatic, but like so was um, there was a few guys like Rich Franklin was like a fitness fanatic too. Like they dedicated a significant amount of their time just to strength and conditioning. So they had this like ultimate gas tank. But like with Rich Franklin, the problem was his skill level was never gonna compete with Anderson Silva. Anderson Silva was just a god at the time. I mean, in his prime, and he was like 34 years old, he was fucking unstoppable.

• 1:13:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, the athleticism differential between everyone and him was like obscene.

• 1:13:37Joe Rogan?

  It was skill too. It's like he had the ability to let punches get right here and he would just move his head slightly and then pang, crack you. Whereas you, all your momentum is coming in and he would counter you. And he was just so skillful and he was like a computer. He would, the first minute of the round, first fight, like first round of the fight, you would see him moving around and just like trying things on you and just sort of downloading your movements and what you're capable of. He would see you swing like, okay, I got that. Okay, I'll do a little of this. I'll kick him a couple of times. And then by the end of the round, he's like, okay, motherfucker. And then you'd see him like, like the Yushin Okami fight is a great example of that. By the end of the first round, he head kicks Okami

• 1:14:21Joe Rogan?

  and drops him. He just starts tuning him up. He just, he gets, he gets what you can do. He's like, you can't do it, I do. And then he just starts turning it on.

• 1:14:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, some of those fights back in the day just felt like a ticking time bomb for whoever he was facing.

• 1:14:33Joe Rogan?

  Yep. People forget, the thing about fighters when they fight past their prime is you get these guys like Anderson that fight into their 40s and you remember them from their, their later fights. Don't remember them when they were unstoppable. Like when Anderson was in his prime, he's one of the greatest fighters that's ever lived.

• 1:14:51Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, for sure. Have you seen that UFC interview where they like accidentally showed, I think it was like HGH in the background?

• 1:15:01Joe Rogan?

  He opened his fridge, what'd he eat? Oh, meat and growth.

• 1:15:06Speaker 02

  He's popped for some dumb shit too, if I recall correctly.

• 1:15:09Joe Rogan?

  Well, did you ever see his coach, his weightlifting coach?

• 1:15:12Speaker 02

  Probably when I was looking into it, but I must admit he's yoked out of his fucking mind.

• 1:15:17Joe Rogan?

  This dude was like 65 years old and built like Joel Romero.

• 1:15:19Speaker 02

  Oh, my god.

• 1:15:20Joe Rogan?

  See if you can find Anderson Silva's strength and conditioning coach. I mean, there was no way. There's just no way. That guy knows what to take.

• 1:15:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:15:31Joe Rogan?

  There's no way. There's no, he was in his 60s. Fucking jacked. I mean, just super jacked. Like, that's him.

• 1:15:39Speaker 02

  Oh, Jesus.

• 1:15:39Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Look at Anderson's face. It's a perfect picture.

• 1:15:48Joe Rogan?

  I mean, look at that dude. That dude's in his 60s.

• 1:15:50Speaker 02

  Mean mugging.

• 1:15:51Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Tainted supplements likely cause a failed test, not what's in my fridge. Look at the size of that guy, in his 60s. So, obviously, he knows what to take.

• 1:16:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:16:04Joe Rogan?

  That guy knows some stuff.

• 1:16:06Speaker 02

  So, Chandler, you said, "Good match for Connor." Is that ever happening, or?

• 1:16:11Joe Rogan?

  I don't know if Connor's ever gonna fight again.

• 1:16:12Speaker 02

  What's happening with his, uh, he just got like the civil suit?

• 1:16:17Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:17Speaker 02

  Or whatever, and he's being dropped by all his?

• 1:16:20Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:20Speaker 02

  Companies or something?

• 1:16:21Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Um, you know, I don't know the real details of that case. I know his version of it and her version of it and what played out in the court. But the reality is that guy's partying. And he's partying real hard. And he talked about it in the, in the court case. You know, he's talking about cocaine. Like, that was the whole thing, that we're all doing cocaine and we're fucking.

• 1:16:44Speaker 02

  Dude, some of his interviews, you can tell he is out of it.

• 1:16:47Joe Rogan?

  Allegedly. He seems at least excited.

• 1:16:51Speaker 02

  Dude, have you seen the Jake Jalen Hall and Connor interview for Roadhouse? And he's just fucking tweaking the whole time?

• 1:16:57Joe Rogan?

  He seems like he's tweaking.

• 1:16:58Speaker 02

  And Jake's just like... I can't imagine he wasn't thinking, "What are you doing, dude?"

• 1:17:03Joe Rogan?

  Right, right. You know, it's funny, Shane Gillis has a great bit about Conor McGregor in Roadhouse. He goes, "Conor McGregor basically played a coked-out Conor McGregor in Roadhouse." And Shane does like a Conor impression, so it's fucking hilarious. Like, "Ah!" I mean, he's, he likes coke.

• 1:17:21Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:17:22Joe Rogan?

  But I think there's another issue to talk about, and that is that

• 1:17:28Joe Rogan?

  a lot of fighters, when they've sustained a significant amount of damage over the course of their career, and there's no way to not get that, right? I mean, we've all seen Conor get beat up and knocked out. We've seen Conor's sparring footage. He spars pro boxers, he's sparring elite fighters. You're getting hit in the head a lot. And a lot of fighters, especially towards the end of their career, turn to drugs. And I think there's probably like a constant state of discomfort that they live in, where their dopamine levels are all fucked up, their cortisol levels are all fucked up. Their bodies just, you're not supposed to get punched in the head a thousand times a year. It's just not supposed to happen. And that's the reality of consistent training.

• 1:18:13Joe Rogan?

  So if you think about consistent training, like say you and me are sparring, and we meet at the gym three times a week, and we spar three times a week. And let's say we spar five rounds, three times a week. Five rounds of five minutes each. We might, you might hit me 15, 20 times a round? And then we're doing that three times a week? And we're doing that over and over and over again? And it's not even, this is the thing, people say, "Oh, you spar light." Sure, sure, sparring light is important. But subconcussive trauma to the head is what causes soccer players to get CTE. Now, soccer players are getting CTE from a soccer ball. I've bounced a soccer ball, I played soccer when I was a kid. That doesn't hurt.

• 1:18:58Joe Rogan?

  But that, that thump, that's giving you CTE. People who ride jet skis get CTE. Wow. Do you know that? No, I didn't know that. My friend Mark Gordon, who is an expert in traumatic brain injury. And he, um, works at the Wounded Warrior Foundation, but I think he works with them, but he wor- oh, uh, Angel Warrior Foundation. He works with, uh, a lot of veterans that suffer from CTE and uses a lot of hormone replacement to help them. Cause a lot of it is damage to the pituitary gland. Your endocrine system gets fucked up from, you know, breaches, you know, explosions, blown up in IEDs. All those kinds of things like, those guys are fucked, like the inside of their brain is fucked.

• 1:19:40Joe Rogan?

  And there's a bunch of different therapies they apply to that, but the bottom line is that it's not just getting knocked out. It's just getting thumped a lot. Just thumped in train- so if we're sparring, you know, we're friends. If we're sparring, I wouldn't hit you hard. I'd hit you like that. I wouldn't, ah, I wouldn't try to kill you. I'd hit you like that, but that over and over again, you're gonna get brain damage. Fact. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. You're gonna get brain damage. And if you're doing that over the course of a 10, 15 year career, think about all those camps, all those rounds, all those times you sparred. And not just sparred that way.

• 1:20:20Joe Rogan?

  How many collisions, I've been, how many times I've been collided with doing jiu jitsu? You accidentally butt heads, you accidentally take a knee to the head, you accidentally take an elbow to the head. It's constant. So you've got consistent trauma to your fucking dome over and over and over again. And then you get a little bit of coke, little bit of coke, ah, and you're feeling good again, ah! I, I bet, I bet, you know, you get addicted to it. And the guy obviously likes extreme things, right? Which is why he's such a great fighter. They're wild people. It's why Jon Jones liked cocaine too. They're fucking wild people. They wanna fight. You know, they wanna fight in a cage for a living. That's how they literally feed themselves by beating the fuck out of skilled people.

• 1:21:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, I can imagine something like the brain cell death that literally occurs could almost result in a perpetual state of you now need drugs to achieve like baseline even

• 1:21:15Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:15Speaker 02

  to feel normal.

• 1:21:17Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:17Speaker 02

  There's a drug I didn't mention earlier, but it's worth mentioning. You said what's not being tested for that's useful. In fighters, something called cerebral lysin is used to offset brain damage after fights. And not being tested for by water yet.

• 1:21:31Joe Rogan?

  And how does it work?

• 1:21:32Speaker 02

  Uh, it's like one of the only sources of active NGF and BDNF that you can actually get an effect out of seemingly. So like brain derived, uh, I forget what the NF stands for, but it's something that could be, basically, uh, grow new brain cells essentially.

• 1:21:52Joe Rogan?

  Whoa.

• 1:21:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, or offset deterioration as well during after fighting.

• 1:21:56Joe Rogan?

  Why would you not let people take that? That seems like that should be standard. That should be given to everybody, like vitamins.

• 1:22:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. It's, uh, the pipeline of it getting through a clinical, like getting a clinical application. It's still in experimental phases, so I could see why it hasn't been getting widespread recognition. And for all we know, it's not going to prove to be super effective, but at least anecdotally from people I know who've used it, highly effective for neurogenesis.

• 1:22:24Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. What else? What about somebody who doesn't have brain damage, just wants to get really smart?

• 1:22:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. Tough call.

• 1:22:29Joe Rogan?

  I think that might work, right?

• 1:22:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, a lot of people even nowadays are exposing themselves to things that make them stupider too. So it might even become, you know, an adjunct kind of like preventative therapy.

• 1:22:40Joe Rogan?

  Right. Yeah, sure.

• 1:22:42Speaker 02

  And it's like sometimes not even purposefully that you're doing things that make you stupider. It's just like.

• 1:22:47Joe Rogan?

  Like what kind of things would you describe?

• 1:22:48Speaker 02

  I don't know. Like if you have kids, you're never getting good sleep. Or you're, uh, somebody who's constantly on stimulants, which you could argue is, you know, bad lifestyle or whatever, but.

• 1:22:58Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:22:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, there are certain things that are going to kill brain cells and just aging in general.

• 1:23:03Joe Rogan?

  Have you seen the studies on creatine and performance with, uh, sleep deprivation?

• 1:23:08Speaker 02

  And what's it?

• 1:23:08Joe Rogan?

  Interesting.

• 1:23:09Speaker 02

  Another thing that not being tested for, which I don't think it should be, but like creatine at adequate doses. Interestingly, for years, we've all been told, take your five grams and you're good. But what's often not talked about is the fact that that dosage is not going to be widespread, the optimal one for every single person. You will likely achieve muscle saturation with that dose, but it doesn't mean you're going to get the full suite of benefits depending on your genetics, how much you weigh, muscle mass, metabolism.

• 1:23:39Joe Rogan?

  Right, five grams for a 140 pound person versus a 240.

• 1:23:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, so like some studies have found increased benefits up to like 20 grams a day.

• 1:23:48Joe Rogan?

  Whoa.

• 1:23:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, and if your GI can tolerate it, like it could be worth trying to see if you get an effect out of, you know, 10 grams and then elevate from there.

• 1:23:55Joe Rogan?

  Do you take it?

• 1:23:56Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:23:57Joe Rogan?

  I take in gummy form.

• 1:23:58Speaker 02

  That's hard to get an adequate dose, though.

• 1:24:00Joe Rogan?

  How is that?

• 1:24:01Speaker 02

  Well, how many gummies do you need to take to get five?

• 1:24:03Joe Rogan?

  I take six. It says take three. I take six. Well, let's see what the dose is. Go to try create.

• 1:24:11Speaker 03

  I take those two. It's 1.5 per gummy, I think.

• 1:24:14Joe Rogan?

  Okay, so I'm taking seven, eight.

• 1:24:17Speaker 02

  So some of the most recent studies are in like elderly women taking 20 grams.

• 1:24:21Joe Rogan?

  Whoa, I'll start doing that.

• 1:24:24Speaker 02

  Start with like 10, see if your GI tolerates it.

• 1:24:26Joe Rogan?

  I have no problem with creatine. It used to make, I used to think it made my face fat, but I think I was just eating too much pasta.

• 1:24:31Speaker 02

  One of the problems with gummies is oftentimes they're less likely to meet label claims.

• 1:24:37Joe Rogan?

  Oh, really?

• 1:24:38Speaker 02

  I don't know if that's like a third party rigorously tested product or not, but something to be cautious of.

• 1:24:43Joe Rogan?

  Right, and then there's two types, right? There's creatine monohydrate and then there's another creatine. What is the other one?

• 1:24:48Speaker 02

  There's different formats, but some are like HCl is essentially just bound to, HCl instead of monohydrate, which could be more tolerable for somebody who gets GI distress from monohydrate. Thought to be, you know, water solubility and other things, but in general, monohydrate is the one that has the most literature supporting it, is tried and true, is cheaper, easier to access.

• 1:25:13Joe Rogan?

  Isn't there some other stuff, H something that you take in combination with it?

• 1:25:18Speaker 02

  Betaine HCl, maybe?

• 1:25:21Joe Rogan?

  Wow, H M N, what the hell?

• 1:25:23Speaker 02

  H M B.

• 1:25:23Joe Rogan?

  H M B, yeah, that's it, that's it. What is that?

• 1:25:26Speaker 02

  That's, uh, I believe a metabolite of leucine, which is like very, uh, basically stimulates mTOR. So, could be useful for, I think, people who are not getting a sufficient amount of protein in their diet and need something to stimulate mTOR for adequate muscle protein synthesis. So like, I don't know, older people who don't get enough protein, for example.

• 1:25:48Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:25:49Speaker 02

  It has shown efficacy, it's just the situations and contextually where it is the most effective is gonna be somebody who is not eating enough protein. But it's like, how many people are eating enough protein as well?

• 1:26:00Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:26:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's, some studies have found that, you know, upwards of one gram per pound of body weight per day could be beneficial and most people aren't getting that.

• 1:26:12Joe Rogan?

  My diet is almost entirely protein.

• 1:26:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:26:14Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, my diet is mostly meat.

• 1:26:16Speaker 02

  It's pretty fucking hard to get your body weight in protein per day if you're not supplementing with protein, you're just eating meat and like, animal derived sources. And then even harder if you're a vegetarian, too.

• 1:26:27Joe Rogan?

  If you're just eating meat and animal derived sources, it's hard?

• 1:26:31Speaker 02

  For, I think for a lot of people, to get high quality, just, if you're gonna eat over, I don't know, a pound and a half to two pounds of meat a day, like you could hit your needs pretty easily.

• 1:26:40Joe Rogan?

  Oh, I do that easy.

• 1:26:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, but that's not like a typical person, I would say.

• 1:26:45Joe Rogan?

  That's most, most of my meals are meat.

• 1:26:47Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:26:48Joe Rogan?

  Like, my breakfast today, I ate like a pound of elk.

• 1:26:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:26:51Joe Rogan?

  That was my breakfast. So what I do is I meal prep for the week on Sunday. So I'll take, out of my freezer, I take a bunch of elk steaks. And, uh, I put them on the Traeger. Um, I slow cook them at like 265 degrees until I get them to the proper internal temperature and then I serum, I cut them up and then I put them in like a glass container and put them in my refrigerator. And then I pull it out whenever I wanna eat.

• 1:27:15Speaker 02

  So you have how much meat per day?

• 1:27:18Joe Rogan?

  Multiple pounds.

• 1:27:20Speaker 02

  Multiple?

• 1:27:20Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:21Speaker 02

  Cooked weight?

• 1:27:21Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:27:22Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 1:27:22Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. I probably at least three pounds of meat a day.

• 1:27:26Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 1:27:26Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:26Speaker 02

  You might be getting, I forget how many pounds of meat you need to saturate creatine stores or at least the equivalent of five grams, but you'd probably still benefit from trying, supplementing more.

• 1:27:36Joe Rogan?

  Well, I do take those gummies. Like I said, I take six of those a day, but maybe I'm gonna take-

• 1:27:40Speaker 02

  I get the powder, bro.

• 1:27:41Joe Rogan?

  I'm gonna take 20 gummies. See what happens. Let's see what happens.

• 1:27:44Speaker 02

  Half your calories, gummies and rest of meat.

• 1:27:48Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, let's see what's up. They don't seem to make you, uh, they don't, they don't upset my stomach at all.

• 1:27:53Speaker 02

  It makes you wonder if there's actually the creatine in it then.

• 1:27:55Joe Rogan?

  Wow. I've never had, uh, upset stomach from creatine. I've taken it in the past, but I'm taking it now more consistently than I've ever taken it before. Cause with the gummies, it's so easy. I keep it in the gym. I just bust it open.

• 1:28:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:28:07Joe Rogan?

  Eat some of them.

• 1:28:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, it's-

• 1:28:09Joe Rogan?

  They taste good, too.

• 1:28:11Speaker 02

  One of the most slept on supplements for sure. I think it kinda got, uh, I don't know, like, not as much attention as it deserves. Maybe more recently, it's gotten a bit more hype because of some of the literature around its cognitive effects and whatnot. But it's like, super useful for a myriad of things.

• 1:28:28Joe Rogan?

  What is the mechanism for giving you a cognitive, uh, enhancing benefit?

• 1:28:33Speaker 02

  I think it's thought to be like, local energy production in the brain. So, some people genetically, or as they age, or what have you, have deficiencies in the capacity to produce ATP. And if you can like backfill it with like a readily available source of phosphocreatine, then you could basically get it to baseline of where it should be.

• 1:28:55Joe Rogan?

  It makes you wonder, like, people that are on a vegan diet, like, what, what are their creatine levels like?

• 1:29:01Speaker 02

  Oh, not good enough, for sure.

• 1:29:02Joe Rogan?

  There's no way, right?

• 1:29:03Speaker 02

  Oh, it's impossible. Even if you're somebody who eats a lot of meat, you might think you're good, but unless you're eating multiple pounds a day, it's unlikely that you've saturated stores.

• 1:29:14Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's like, one of the more insidious things about these people that are, uh, prostylatizers, who are just trying to get people to become vegan. And they'll, one of the things that they say is that it'll improve your athletic performance, which is like, straight horseshit. Like, I don't know of any elite athlete at the very top of any sport that's a vegan. Do you?

• 1:29:35Speaker 02

  No, I know some IFBB pros who are vegan, but they do a lot to optimize their diets that requires like special protein supplements and this and that.

• 1:29:46Joe Rogan?

  And a massive amount of steroids.

• 1:29:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, a lot of them are dope too.

• 1:29:50Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that helps.

• 1:29:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, there are definitely successful, like people who thrive, I think, doing vegan diets, but oftentimes it is more meticulous in the planning needed to like actually make it so you could thrive on it as opposed to like if you're eating enough red meat and whatnot, like you've sort of, you can be stupid and still cover your bases essentially.

• 1:30:15Joe Rogan?

  Right, right. So the difference between one thing is like if someone say, well, a pound of broccoli will equal, you know, X amount of steak in terms of the amount of protein that's, but it's not the same bioavailability.

• 1:30:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, like the amino acid composition is not going to be the same and it might not even stimulate muscle protein synthesis to the capacity that is needed to actually be anabolic. So like some vegans, I would assume, might actually benefit from supplementing with like essential amino acids on top of their meals just because they're not hitting a leucine threshold.

• 1:30:49Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:30:50Speaker 02

  So, and that's where like an HMB also could maybe be have use as well.

• 1:30:55Joe Rogan?

  And is creatine, is it sourced in a vegan way or is any of it derived from animal sources?

• 1:31:03Speaker 02

  That's a good question. I'm not sure, but if you can make testosterone from soy, I think creatine you'd probably get.

• 1:31:10Joe Rogan?

  It's pretty crazy what they can synthesize.

• 1:31:13Speaker 02

  Oh dude, yeah. You would never think that's where you get it from, right?

• 1:31:17Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, well, it just takes so many brilliant people working in so many different capacities to create like all the stuff that we have available right now.

• 1:31:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, like some dude like took a fucking yam and was like, hey, these chemicals look similar to these chemicals that we like make in our balls. Like let's tweak it and like make it, let's sell it to people as testosterone. Yeah, I don't even know.

• 1:31:39Joe Rogan?

  And it works.

• 1:31:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:31:40Joe Rogan?

  That's what's nuts. It's like super effective.

• 1:31:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:31:42Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. It's very strange that it's also kind of derided that like people like look down upon it. Like, why would you look down upon anything, especially as you're an older person? Why would you look down upon anything? It's gonna make you feel better.

• 1:31:56Speaker 02

  Yeah. No, I think more awareness is coming to it, but also in women for HRT, which is... You could argue even more of a necessity than at least with men, a lot can maintain residual hormone production to some capacity that could sustain good health, long term. But with women, once you get menopause, like you are guaranteed to have like a complete cessation of estrogen and progesterone production.

• 1:32:23Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:23Speaker 02

  To where you are guaranteed putting your brain and heart in danger if you don't replace those hormones.

• 1:32:29Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:32:30Speaker 02

  Yeah. So it's almost like, I don't know, like unwinding some of the shitty information that was put out decades ago on.

• 1:32:36Joe Rogan?

  That's the thing for, for women, there was a lot of shitty information put out about hormone replacement.

• 1:32:41Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah, it's, uh, I think it was the Women's Health Initiative. They had some study that showed like a relative risk increase in breast cancer or something to the tune of some negligible insignificant amount. And they were also using synthetic drugs as opposed to bio-identical. So it'd be like the equivalent of me putting you on Deca and then being like, oh, well, you got cancer, so testosterone sucks.

• 1:33:05Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:33:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, which is fucking ridiculous.

• 1:33:08Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:08Speaker 02

  So they were using like horse piss derived estrogens or something and then like some shady progestin. And determining, oh, HRT is bad because of some also relatively insignificant increase in cancer risk, which at least to date in bio-identical hormones, we have not seen play out. And the upside far outweighs the risk seemingly that we can see right now. It's just not really permeated the, uh, I don't know, like masses yet.

• 1:33:38Joe Rogan?

  Well, think about how many fucking people are on testosterone replacement therapy and how few of them you know that have problems. I don't know of anybody that has a problem with it.

• 1:33:46Speaker 02

  I

• 1:33:46Joe Rogan?

  I know of so many people that have been enhanced by it and they feel so much better. They have so much more energy, more life.

• 1:33:51Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah, it's, uh, super impactful and for, for women too, like no more hot flashes while you're sleeping. Your bones aren't going to degrade at the same rates, like your brain is not, like Alzheimer's rates in women are like two X that of men and it's

• 1:34:06Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 1:34:07Speaker 02

  Of, oh, it's definitely intertwined with menopause, shutting off their hormones.

• 1:34:12Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:34:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:34:14Joe Rogan?

  Well, there's so much shit information out there. That's what's fucked. When you hear about studies that like, you know, when, when the sugar industry funded those studies to demonize saturated fat because they were trying to say the saturated fat was causing heart attacks and not sugar. When you see about, and I think they only Paid them like fifty thousand dollars or something crazy.

• 1:34:35Speaker 02

  Oh my god.

• 1:34:36Joe Rogan?

  You know, don't know that?

• 1:34:37Speaker 02

  Well, I didn't know it was fifty grand.

• 1:34:39Joe Rogan?

  I'm pretty sure. I'm pretty sure it's like.

• 1:34:40Speaker 02

  That's fucked up, man.

• 1:34:41Joe Rogan?

  Fifty thousand dollars and it ruined everybody.

• 1:34:44Speaker 02

  Not that if it was a bigger amount of money, it would be fine, but I mean, it's just shocking how little it was.

• 1:34:48Joe Rogan?

  If they paid him fifty million, you'd be like, well, you know, you're unethical, but hey, if somebody offered me fifty million, who knows what I would do? No, fifty thousand dollars and these motherfuckers ruined people for decades and decades.

• 1:34:59Speaker 02

  Dildo, one of the portions just ruined like the fucking.

• 1:35:02Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:35:02Speaker 02

  Food pyramid.

• 1:35:03Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's like they've, they've, here it is. Yep, there it is. Fifty years ago, sugar industry quietly paid scientists. It wound up paying approximately fifty thousand dollars in today's dollars for the research. So he's even less than fifty thousand dollars. So it's fifty thousand dollars today. So fifty years ago, that's probably ten grand.

• 1:35:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:35:21Joe Rogan?

  They paid him ten grand and these motherfuckers ruined everyone's health.

• 1:35:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:35:26Joe Rogan?

  Got people taking margarine.

• 1:35:28Speaker 02

  Thrill.

• 1:35:29Joe Rogan?

  And being scared of butter and eggs and, and meat.

• 1:35:33Speaker 02

  Damn dude.

• 1:35:34Joe Rogan?

  Crazy.

• 1:35:35Speaker 02

  Yeah. So your diet is just meat?

• 1:35:38Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, mostly.

• 1:35:39Speaker 02

  What about fruit?

• 1:35:40Joe Rogan?

  I eat fruit.

• 1:35:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:35:41Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I love fruit.

• 1:35:42Speaker 02

  Cause you've been like cycling back and forth between?

• 1:35:44Joe Rogan?

  I, I like fruit before I work out. I like fruit after I work out sometimes, you know, I like fruit. But I very rarely eat vegetables unless I want to.

• 1:35:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:35:53Joe Rogan?

  Like if some asparagus and it's looking good, I'll have some asparagus. You know what I mean? Like if I see some Brussels sprouts, I eat it for taste. Sort of like, I think of it like pasta, except not as bad for you.

• 1:36:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:36:03Joe Rogan?

  I think of it as like, oh, that would probably taste good. I'd like to eat some of that. I don't think of it as like, this is like nutrition and fuel.

• 1:36:10Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:36:10Joe Rogan?

  So when I, when I eat for nutrition and fuel, it's eggs and steak.

• 1:36:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:36:15Joe Rogan?

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• 1:38:41Speaker 02

  Have you been following the boxing gold medal debacle with that like?

• 1:38:46Joe Rogan?

  First of all, XY chromosome, case closed.

• 1:38:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:38:50Joe Rogan?

  If you have a fucking, and this is what the enhanced game wants to do. So the enhanced games, you know, they're developing this. Olympic style event and they're they're spending a lot of money on it. They have a lot of big investors and they're gonna give real prizes like a million dollars if you win the gold medal instead of zero, which is what the Olympics gives. And I asked them, I'm like, how are you gonna address like trans athletes? And they said, we think we're gonna do chromosomes.

• 1:39:15Speaker 02

  But yeah, yeah.

• 1:39:16Joe Rogan?

  Which is really the only way to do it politically correct.

• 1:39:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:39:19Joe Rogan?

  You know, you don't say, this is not a woman. You say, what are your chromosomes? If we forget it, ma'am, what are your chromosomes? XY. Ma'am, you gotta be in the XY box. Get over there. But I identify as a woman.

• 1:39:31Joe Rogan?

  Get over there. Get over there.

• 1:39:33Speaker 02

  Apparently they used to do sex testing in the Olympics in the 90s, I believe. They stopped doing it. And then since then, it's been like these weird nuanced scenarios with, oh, is your testosterone level looking male or whatever? And, you know, it's a, it gets nuanced with the type of like disorder you have because some are far more advantageous than others. And if this medical report that was leaked of this boxer is true, it's basically the worst offender of the disorders you could have because it's basically like a five alpha reductase deficiency is basically just depriving your body of DHT.

• 1:40:13Speaker 02

  But if you have internal testes making testosterone, you still have the full functional capacity of a male to build muscle and bone. And all the psychoactive effects and all that, so.

• 1:40:22Joe Rogan?

  Lung size, heart size.

• 1:40:24Speaker 02

  Now, to be determined, which I think that that athlete should go get the testing to actually disprove it if it was true or if it wasn't true, but.

• 1:40:35Joe Rogan?

  They would have already done that.

• 1:40:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:40:37Joe Rogan?

  Where there's smoke, there's fire, you know? I just, I think if too many people are calling you a man. Like, there's this one case of, uh, there was that runner who.

• 1:40:45Speaker 02

  Castro Samania?

• 1:40:46Joe Rogan?

  Right. So that's a very different thing.

• 1:40:49Speaker 02

  No, that was like potentially the same thing.

• 1:40:51Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 1:40:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, so.

• 1:40:52Joe Rogan?

  XY chromosome?

• 1:40:53Speaker 02

  Uh, had internal testes, XY chromosomes, five alpha reductase deficiency, and had the testosterone levels of a male because of the internal testes.

• 1:41:02Joe Rogan?

  Oh, Jesus.

• 1:41:03Speaker 02

  You might grow up thinking that you are female because you haven't had adequate sexual differentiation and maturation from the lack of DHT. So it's almost like the equivalent to pudding. A kid at birth on like a mega dose of finasteride or dutasteride and wiping out their DHT.

• 1:41:20Joe Rogan?

  Oh wow.

• 1:41:21Speaker 02

  So they still grow up with male level muscle development from the testosterone, but no masculine, not sufficient masculinization to differentiate you and mature you completely from the DHT.

• 1:41:35Joe Rogan?

  Well, let's see, uh, what is, uh, the latest on this? So let's find out what is the leaked story on this boxer? And, uh, find out like, like, has anybody analyzed this? Is there any like conclusion that anybody's drawn?

• 1:41:51Speaker 02

  I don't think so. I think it's still, is the leaked report legit or not? And.

• 1:41:55Speaker 03

  Story I could find, this is November 6th.

• 1:41:58Joe Rogan?

  Confirms Olympic boxing champion launching legal action over medical all gay. But this is just about the legal.

• 1:42:03Speaker 03

  No, no, I was looking for any story about it, having updated information. This was the, the most recent story was written then. Anything else was from October where it was saying that she was not.

• 1:42:13Joe Rogan?

  She's also saddened by the abuse she has received. Do you think they'll go back and edit this if it turns out she's a man? He's saddened by the abuse that he's received.

• 1:42:20Speaker 03

  It was, it was about the, the claims that the, they were stripped of their title or their gold medal.

• 1:42:25Joe Rogan?

  Oh, well, that's not true. No, they haven't been stripped. So if they're suing over that, that they, they can actually win that lawsuit.

• 1:42:31Speaker 03

  Oh, they're suing over something in the French media because they've gotten, um.

• 1:42:35Speaker 02

  And I feel like the Olympic committee probably has to lean into, you know, the whole politically correct angle of it too, to not get the scrutiny of you let this person punch women in the head.

• 1:42:45Joe Rogan?

  Of course, of course. Yeah, she'd never felt a punch like this. Eh, so what?

• 1:42:51Speaker 02

  They have all sports too.

• 1:42:53Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:42:53Speaker 02

  Fucking fighting people.

• 1:42:54Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's pretty crazy. But so what is the leaked report, Jamie? Find out what the leaked report, excuse me, the leaked report of this person is.

• 1:43:02Speaker 03

  That's what, that's what this has to do with it, I think.

• 1:43:04Joe Rogan?

  I understand what it has to do with it, but find out what the actual leak report is. Like what is the leak report?

• 1:43:12Joe Rogan?

  Oh, Jesus.

• 1:43:12Speaker 02

  I think it was the, uh, basically assessment of...

• 1:43:16Joe Rogan?

  Internal testicles?

• 1:43:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:43:18Joe Rogan?

  Okay, French journalist, but it's been, there's been multiple studies or multiple, uh, articles written saying that this person has XY chromosomes.

• 1:43:27Speaker 02

  That was, uh, a supposed failed gender eligibility test from some organization that...

• 1:43:34Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, International Boxing Association did not allow her to participate in 2023 World Championships after she failed gender eligibility test. But the International Olympic Committee did authorize her presence at Paris 2024. But here's the thing, like, is this, when, when they say the International Olympic Committee did authorize, what are they, by what?

• 1:43:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, this is the crazy thing is apparently their criteria was that you are female on your passport.

• 1:44:00Joe Rogan?

  Oh.

• 1:44:01Speaker 02

  But it's like, you know, if you look female at birth, you easily could if you have this disorder.

• 1:44:08Joe Rogan?

  Didn't Dylan Mulvaney change their passport to a female?

• 1:44:11Speaker 02

  Oh, probably.

• 1:44:12Joe Rogan?

  Did they? Find out, can you change your passport to female if you're transgender? I think you can.

• 1:44:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:44:20Joe Rogan?

  I don't, I don't know if Dylan Mulvaney did it.

• 1:44:22Speaker 02

  I guess it's a low barrier too, like, you just have like a fucking ID piece that says you're female, therefore we're gonna ignore testes?

• 1:44:30Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:44:30Speaker 02

  Like, what the fuck?

• 1:44:31Joe Rogan?

  The whole thing is so crazy. This, this is one of the weirder aspect, and the reason why people harp on it so much, why is everybody so obsessed with trans? Because, this is why, because it's bizarre. No medical documentation, you do not need to provide medical documentation to change your gender marker. So this is for, on US passport, you can select M for male, F for female, or X for unspecified or another gender identity. So you could have X on your passport. I think I'm gonna get that. Uh, so, no medical documentary, uh, so I could be a female, I could just say I'm a female, show up with a full beard. Genetic marker you select doesn't need to match your gender on your citizenship, evidence, or photo ID. See, the reason why this works is I don't know what's going on inside you.

• 1:45:16Joe Rogan?

  I don't know how you feel. I, I'm, I could be arrogant and...

• 1:45:22Joe Rogan?

  Completely not compassionate and I could just decide that you're just full of shit and you're a guy. Or you could be in agony, going through life, feeling like a woman and not understanding why you have a dick. I think there's that too, but like I talked about in my comedy special. Perverts disappeared like the flu during covid, like they don't exist anymore. Like a guy in a dress who gets a hard on going into the women's room is a woman now. They used to be psychos. It used to be like Norman Bates in the movie Psycho, dressed up like his mom. Silence of the Lambs, puts the lotion in the basket. It was like, if you wanted to make someone in a movie scarier, you put them in a dress.

• 1:46:08Joe Rogan?

  You took a psycho killer, you made him dress like a woman, like, oh, this guy's fucking crazy. And then somewhere, we just decided that doesn't exist anymore. And so there's no perverts. And so anyone who just says they're a woman gets to go in the women's room, go in the women's locker, play in women's sports. And you're completely ignoring this subset of society that has always been fucking terrifying to people. Creepy guys who dress up like women, who pretend to be women are just perverts. They just want to sneak around women's room and smell their shit. There's people that are out of their mind and you've given them a hall pass.

• 1:46:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, like I could empathize with somebody who didn't know and then would became aware of it. And then once they became aware of it, they stopped competing. It would suck for everyone involved, obviously, but like, I could understand like how shitty of a predicament that is. But it's like the onus is on you once you've been assessed to not compete anymore. And to like confirm what the fuck is going on.

• 1:47:11Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, go fight guys.

• 1:47:12Speaker 02

  Yeah. And it's like, even if you're at a disadvantage, like, well, it doesn't mean you fight girls at your advantage.

• 1:47:18Joe Rogan?

  Exactly. Yeah. If you're at a disadvantage fighting guys, you probably shouldn't be fighting.

• 1:47:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, like how many girls are transitioning and then fighting men or competing against men? Zero?

• 1:47:28Joe Rogan?

  Well, also, here's the other argument. There is a spectrum, right? There are guys with naturally lower testosterone than a guy like say Yoel Romero. Yoel Romero has an advantage over almost everybody. You know, when it comes to like genetics, he's just like a fucking specimen from God, right? So you get that, which is the rarest of rare, right? And then you have a guy like, you know, fill in the blank, there's like a bunch of fighters in the UFC, I don't want to disparage anybody. But there's a bunch of guys, you look at them, you're like, that's not a specimen. But, super tough, super technical, works real hard, very intelligent in their approach, and they manage to fight really well. But, if they go up against a guy who's a freak, just a physical freak, and that guy works just as hard, and is just as intelligent, and just as methodical in their training,

• 1:48:13Joe Rogan?

  they're gonna have an advantage. Just a natural, God-given advantage. The universe has kissed them with genetics. And those people exist, man. And so, you can't say, well then that guy should be able to fight women now, because he can't beat Yoel Romero. Like, that's stupid.

• 1:48:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:48:27Joe Rogan?

  That's fucking stupid. And, it's also, you're not protecting women. I thought that the left was all about protecting women. Like, this is the whole thing about progressives, protect people that are like, not as safe. Like, I don't generally worry about women raping me. Never.

• 1:48:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:48:45Joe Rogan?

  Never in my life have I been in a bar, go, boy, I hope some woman doesn't try to rape me. I hope some woman doesn't try to roof me and get my dick hard, and like, no one ever thinks that way. But women walk through life worrying about getting roofied, or getting raped, or getting dragged into an alleyway, they worry about that. Guys don't worry about that. It's just a completely different dynamic. So, when you're comparing like, trans this and trans that, like, there's not a guy I've ever talked to in my life that doesn't, that is even remotely concerned with a trans man going into the men's room.

• 1:49:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:49:28Joe Rogan?

  I don't give a fuck. If, like, what's that person that was, Chaz Bono. Chaz Bono. Sonny Bono's daughter that became a man. Chaz can come into the men's room, I don't give a fuck. It doesn't even freak me out at all. If Chaz is in the men's room and I have a two-year-old son with me that I have to take into the bathroom, go to the bathroom, I'm not worried about Chaz Bono. But I am worried about a pervert. If I, if I was a guy and um I uh had a, a daughter and she was like 10 years old and she went into the women's room and then I saw a man with a fucking 5 o'clock shadow and a wig on go into the bathroom behind her and I couldn't go in the men, I couldn't go in the women's room and see what's going on.

• 1:50:10Joe Rogan?

  I go, I don't know, that might just be a really kind person who identifies as a woman and happens to have a beard. Or it could be a complete fucking psycho, which are real things. And by being this compassionate person, I'm supposed to ignore the, the reality of psychos.

• 1:50:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:50:26Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy.

• 1:50:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:50:28Joe Rogan?

  This is where it becomes like a cult. Like, this is where it becomes like you're indoctrinated into this very rigid ideology that you can't stray from at all. And if you do, you're, you're cast out of the kingdom forever. You're, you're a heretic, you're a terrible person.

• 1:50:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, fucked up, man. It's uh, I don't really know. Even the, the scrutiny on it, I don't really know how they don't acknowledge how absurd it is, like.

• 1:50:56Joe Rogan?

  It's, when you watch people defend it, they have to do mental gymnastics.

• 1:51:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:51:01Joe Rogan?

  It just, do you ever see that conversation that I had with Adam Conover about it?

• 1:51:05Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:51:06Joe Rogan?

  Oh. Oh, it was one of the most brutal conversations of all time. It's about trans women in sports.

• 1:51:12Speaker 02

  Oh, so this was like a debate?

• 1:51:13Joe Rogan?

  Uh, well, it didn't turn out to be, it wasn't planned out. It just, it just came about because he was doing, you know, he's just, we were talking about it and it got to the subject of trans women competing and his position was like, I'm in favor of a sport that's more inclusive, so if that makes it more inclusive for the trans woman and he was like in favor of hormone blockers for children that they, they've always known that they're a woman, like, what the fuck are you, you don't have any kids. You don't know what kids are like. You, you could tell your kids they're a werewolf. Like, stay, keep away from the full moon, you're a werewolf. Oh, I always knew. Like, they're kids, their brain's not formed. And also, they wanna please you. And if you're a, how many fucking Hollywood psychos have trans kids?

• 1:51:54Joe Rogan?

  How many people where they fly the flag of inclusivity and they're, they're a proud progressive and I'm proud that I have a queer child?

• 1:52:06Joe Rogan?

  How much of that is your influence? Is it zero percent? Cause I bet it's not. I bet there's some sort of reinforcement of that. It's just like the, the numbers are so extraordinary. When you have parents that have three trans kids, you're like, what? Three? What are the odds of that? And you're nuts? You're a nutty actress and you have three trans kids? Uh, what's going on here? And you're not allowed to say it. If you say anything, you say, oh, this person who's clearly mentally ill, might actually be mentally ill. And might actually have Munchausen syndrome. You know, like they, they might be doing something terrible to their child. Because they're just fucking nuts. And they want a trans kid, like, so they could fly it as a, they could put their pride flag on their fucking front door and they feel like a better person.

• 1:52:50Joe Rogan?

  There are people like that. And then there are also people that are just compassionate people that want people to be free and do whatever you want. They want you to have complete freedom to express yourself. I don't care if a guy wears a dress, wear a dress, man. If that's what you like, I don't care. You want to paint your nails, want to have lipstick on, I don't give a fuck. Have a good time. I want you to be happy. I'll be your friend. Just don't try to compete against women in sports. That's fucking nuts. And don't try to make women uncomfortable by walking with your dick out in the, the women's locker room. It's, how about the guy in Canada that's 50 years old? That identifies as a, a, a teenage girl was competing in like, young girls swimming? And they, they allowed him, cause Canada, like you know.

• 1:53:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:53:30Joe Rogan?

  You live there. Off the rails. You live in a communist shithole. That place is nuts.

• 1:53:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:53:36Joe Rogan?

  And they allow some of the most bananas trans stuff of all time. They, on taxpayer money in Canada, they paid for a guy to develop breast milk. Do you know about this story?

• 1:53:47Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:53:48Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah. Has an adopted child, paid for them, paid for this person to lactate. Imagine the toxic milk that's coming out of this man tit.

• 1:53:58Speaker 02

  Horrendous.

• 1:53:58Joe Rogan?

  Like, what is in there? Like, what are you generating? You don't even have the glands for it. Like, what's actually being secreted there? Like, what is that?

• 1:54:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's like, uh, if you asked me, would it be good milk quality from some guy on tren or deca? And he's just. Fucking secreting shit out of his nipples. I'd be like, fuck no, dude.

• 1:54:18Joe Rogan?

  Fuck no. Like, what is happening? What is in that milk? And what is that gonna do to the baby that's sucking on it? And all in the name of inclusivity, all in the name of being a kind, compassionate, open-minded person. That's not open-minded. That's nuts. And it's cowardly. Cause you're afraid to say what you know to be true because you don't want to suffer the repercussions. You don't want to be called a transphobe, whatever the fuck that means. You don't want to be called a bigot. You don't want to be called any of these things. So you'll go along with some of the most preposterous ideas, including pretending that perverts don't exist.

• 1:54:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, I hope, uh, I don't know if Pierre is gonna get into winning the election and get Trudeau out, but seems like a reasonable guy.

• 1:55:02Joe Rogan?

  Well, he seems way more reasonable than Trudeau, who seems completely insane.

• 1:55:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, and like candidly, I'm not like a political expert by any fucking means at all, so don't take anything I'm saying seriously. Apparently, last time I was here, people thought I was like, by not saying anything about it, I was like endorsing Trudeau or something.

• 1:55:20Joe Rogan?

  By not saying anything about it?

• 1:55:21Speaker 02

  I don't know. There was like comments about how, like, Derek knows better. He knows who this Pierre guy is. I'm like, no, I just don't follow this shit like I should probably. So, but he, yeah, he seems, uh, reasonable. And in contrast to Trudeau, who's like a fucking gong show.

• 1:55:37Joe Rogan?

  Full-on lunatic who's completely changed his tune on so many different things, including going after guns, what they did with the trucker, the trucker strike.

• 1:55:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, like the de-banking thing you guys talked about recently. It's like not new news in Canada.

• 1:55:51Joe Rogan?

  I know. Well, they did it to people who donated to the trucker convoy, which is really crazy. So you just say, hey, these people shouldn't be mandated to get a vaccine that has, you know, a safety profile that's really like, we don't really know yet. We don't, there's no long-term studies. We don't really know what's gonna happen. And you're just like mandating this?

• 1:56:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:56:11Joe Rogan?

  Why? Why? I don't have to do it. Why are you making me do it? It turned out you really didn't have to do it. So this is what's turned out now. Like, um, you know, was it the, here, I'll send it to you, Jamie. So they released a study recently where the actual government went and looked over, here, I'll show you this. So they went and looked over what the actual results were from the pandemic, and the findings are. They're, you know, not that shocking to anybody who was actually paying attention, but completely contrary to what the instructions were when we were young and this or when, you know, COVID was recent rather. So COVID-19, this is, uh, the House released a 500-page

• 1:56:54Joe Rogan?

  report on COVID-19 pandemic. Key findings: COVID-19 likely originated from a lab-related incident in Wuhan, China. Crazy. You get banned from YouTube for saying that. Banned. Okay, over $200 billion in relief funds lost to fraud with criminals exploiting weak oversight. Prolonged lockdowns and arbitrary mandates caused severe harm, economic devastation, mental health crises, and historic learning loss while lacking robust scientific support. Policies ignored natural immunity, pushing mandates that eroded trust and harmed public perception of science. Absolutely. WHO and CDC compromised by political interference,

• 1:57:37Joe Rogan?

  offering inconsistent, unscientific guidance that fueled public distrust, and the key players included federal agencies and Cuomo's administration actively obstructed oversight efforts and hid critical evidence.

• 1:57:51Speaker 02

  Christ.

• 1:57:53Joe Rogan?

  Select Subcommittee on Coronavirus Pandemic basically said all the conspiracy theorists were correct. Every single one of them. No repercussions, no retractions, no apology from Rachel Maddow. None of it.

• 1:58:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, man, it's, uh, yeah, in Canada, the lockdowns were pretty absurd. Um, I know here they were, it depended on the state and whatever, but yeah, Canada was like, get your vaccines, you're not leaving to go anywhere.

• 1:58:20Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah. Crazy.

• 1:58:22Speaker 02

  Fucked up.

• 1:58:23Joe Rogan?

  Did you have to take it?

• 1:58:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, dude, fucking sucked.

• 1:58:25Joe Rogan?

  Did you have a side effect?

• 1:58:26Speaker 02

  No. Well, at least that I could tell and I've-

• 1:58:29Joe Rogan?

  Did you ever do a D-dimer test?

• 1:58:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's normal.

• 1:58:32Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that's good. Well, from what I understand, I talked to a friend of mine who's very knowledgeable in this, and he said that one of the real problems was the lack of aspiration, that they didn't aspirate when they injected people. Even when they did Biden on television, they just jammed that thing into his arm and it shot. It in there.

• 1:58:48Speaker 02

  So is it supposed to stay like local or something?

• 1:58:51Joe Rogan?

  It's supposed, the idea about it was it's supposed to stay local, right? It's supposed to stay local, but apparently there's been, if you talk to Brett Weinstein, a bunch of other peoples, there's a lot of debate as to whether or not it is ever local. That they've been able to find the evidence of the spike protein all throughout the body. And the, the issue though, was if you didn't aspirate and you went right into a blood vessel.

• 1:59:13Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 1:59:14Joe Rogan?

  So that could be the cause of myocarditis, all these different neurological conditions, all these different things. So the lipid nanoparticles and this vaccine gets in your system. Your body reacts to it like it's being attacked, right? Well, if it gets to the heart, your heart doesn't heal, right? Which is why your heart doesn't get cancer. Your heart scars, like your liver heals, your liver regenerates. You could lose half your liver, you know, you could donate half your liver to someone and it'll grow back in weeks.

• 1:59:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, liver's resilient.

• 1:59:45Joe Rogan?

  It's nuts, but your heart's not like that. So the heart scars over and it leads to, you know, enlargement of the heart, myocarditis, pericarditis. So this is the thought, this is what my friend told me, who's a very intelligent person, I want to name him. But he said that the real issue is that they didn't aspirate. And a significant number of people that are experiencing these long-term issues from the vaccine, it's because it went right into their bloodstream when it was supposed to be intramuscular.

• 2:00:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, there is several times now, because especially if you're on TRT, you're probably more understanding of how to inject yourself almost than somebody who's like a random pharmacist, that just jamming people as fast as they want every single day, just as part of their gig. And you're kind of risking it if you just let somebody else pin you. Like sometimes you feel like, hey, can I do this?

• 2:00:37Joe Rogan?

  Right, right. But even then, like if you jam it into your arm, it's possible that you could hit a blood vessel.

• 2:00:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, have you ever heard of Trenkoff?

• 2:00:45Joe Rogan?

  I have, what is that?

• 2:00:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, so it's thought to be that if you get into, uh, like you nick a vein or something, or you'd like hit a blood vessel, for example, and you get some of it bleeding immediately into systemic circulation, rather than being intramuscular entirely. It goes very quickly up to your lungs and you basically have a coughing fit get induced by your body trying to like expel whatever is there.

• 2:01:10Joe Rogan?

  Whoa.

• 2:01:10Speaker 02

  And so like I could absolutely see something that wasn't meant to go immediately into systemic circulation being more problematic. Like with trend cough, I've experienced it personally back in the day. This is like one of the most sobering things about bodybuilding is if you get trend cough, it's like the most pathetic scenario you'll ever find yourself in. Cause you're just this muscle bound dude who just injected yourself with like cattle steroids. And you're just looking at yourself in the mirror hacking up a lung sweating your fucking face off like what am I doing with my life? And you can't get around it other than just like cough a lung for three minutes.

• 2:01:46Joe Rogan?

  It takes three minutes for it to go away?

• 2:01:47Speaker 02

  It depends, but like how much you have and all this, a bunch of stuff. But yeah, it's like basically if it happens, you can feel it coming on, you just like fucking brace yourself on the sink and you can get ready to hack up a lung for a few minutes.

• 2:01:59Joe Rogan?

  Jesus, and is it a consistent thing or is it a one time thing like right after injection or is it something that recurs?

• 2:02:05Speaker 02

  After injection, but it's like, you know, who knows what that does once you get like solvents and fucking, you know, like whatever else is in your compound, in your solution into systemic circulation immediately. Like, I don't know.

• 2:02:18Joe Rogan?

  What is, tren is something that the craziest of people that I know have taken, including like jujitsu guys that really want to get super jacked. They take tren and I'm like, what is it about the tren? And they apparently get like ultra violent when they're on tren.

• 2:02:32Speaker 02

  Yeah. So it's a unique compound that was.

• 2:02:37Joe Rogan?

  Called tren balone, is that what it's?

• 2:02:38Speaker 02

  Yeah. And it used to be used in for like, I forgot what the clinical application was, but it was a pharmaceutical approved steroid back in the eighties. And then was, you know, basically taken off the market similar to around the same time that, interestingly enough, Biden was the one who spearheaded getting like steroids scheduled essentially.

• 2:03:00Joe Rogan?

  Biden did?

• 2:03:01Speaker 02

  Yeah. He was like at the forefront of pushing for the banning of them or scheduling.

• 2:03:06Joe Rogan?

  If I don't have muscles, nobody has muscles.

• 2:03:08Speaker 02

  Yeah. And that's like, he's blamed often by the bodybuilding community for the lack of refinements in anabolic steroids. Cause now we're stuck with the same drugs you've been using since like the eighties. So like every drug category has had significant refinements over the years to make them more effective, less side effect ridden, etc. Like GLP-1 medications, for example, highly effective, and constantly being like lightning through pipelines to create really, really refined ones that are less problematic. And with steroids, that was being done in the 80s, and then once there was, you know, the Ben Johnson debacle, I believe it was.

• 2:03:46Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:03:47Speaker 02

  That brought all this, you know, public outcry.

• 2:03:49Joe Rogan?

  Another proud Canadian.

• 2:03:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, and getting tested positive for a winstrol, I think, and people were like, is this just gonna become like a fucking, like, chemical warfare essentially in the Olympics, and whoever's dope the most is gonna win, and people were freaking out, and the response was Biden getting it, including testosterone, scheduled.

• 2:04:09Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 2:04:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, and then there was this huge stigma developed around them, and the taboo of being on steroids was developed, and that's kind of what led to this probably slowing down progress decades, and likely preventing people from getting steroids developed that were far less likely to kill them. Yeah, so we could have like a really refined, highly effective compounds by now that don't make your heart explode if you just, if they just continued, probably.

• 2:04:37Joe Rogan?

  Well, I know that one state, I think it was Oregon, essentially decriminalized everything. I think they've taken that back now, because I think it was like a, Oregon's a disaster anyway, Portland in particular, like you go, there's just needles and drug addicts, and it's like open-air drug marts everywhere, because all the homelessness and the camping on the street, the tent situation there is fucking nuts. And they're super tolerant, progressive people, so like overwhelmingly, right, so they just, like in terms of compassion for these people, we need to fund them, and you're basically giving them money to stay homeless, it's really nuts. So when a society like that decriminalizes everything, we're just gonna have fucking, people are gonna go haywire with meth, and, and, you know,

• 2:05:22Joe Rogan?

  and whatever else they want to get. But they also did it with steroids, they did it with everything. They essentially decriminalized all drugs.

• 2:05:29Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 2:05:30Joe Rogan?

  But I think they took, did they take that back, Jamie?

• 2:05:32Speaker 02

  I would be curious, even if it was decriminalized though, what the access would be like, cause it's still gonna be contingent on compounding pharmacies being able to make stuff legally, which from what I understand is actually getting worse scrutiny. As opposed to like it getting better.

• 2:05:48Joe Rogan?

  Well, they're scrutinizing peptides now, which is

• 2:05:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:05:51Joe Rogan?

  really crazy. Oregon law rolling back drug decriminalization takes effect, making possession a crime again. So is it of all things, did they just change the law totally?

• 2:06:03Joe Rogan?

  So as the Democratic controlled legislature passed the recriminalization law in March, overhauling a measure approved by 58% of voters in 2020 that made possessing illicit drugs like heroin punishable by a ticket and a maximum $100 fine. The measure directed hundreds of millions of dollars in cannabis tax revenue towards addiction services, but the money was slow to get out the door at a time when the fentanyl crisis was causing a spike in deadly overdoses in health officials. Grappling with the COVID-19 pandemic, we're struggling to stand up the new treatment system state auditors found. Okay, so they just couldn't keep up with what was, they didn't follow through with the whole idea of these

• 2:06:44Joe Rogan?

  addiction centers and rehabilitation centers?

• 2:06:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, like some of this stuff is like, I don't even know how much it would help being able to possess something when you can't even get it prescribed to begin with.

• 2:06:57Joe Rogan?

  Right, you can't manufacture it. You're still like, if you're, if you're allowed to get cocaine, if you're allowed to possess cocaine, well, are you buying fentanyl-laced cocaine from the cartel? Like, what do you?

• 2:07:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, like in Canada, it's not a, I'm pretty sure it's not a crime to possess steroids, but to sell it and distribute it, it is a crime. And there's still no pharmacies that are making like pharmaceutical grade steroids that aren't testosterone.

• 2:07:20Joe Rogan?

  Could a pharmacy make it and give it away? Have you had some Elon Musk type fucking crazy person?

• 2:07:26Speaker 02

  I don't think so, probably not.

• 2:07:28Joe Rogan?

  Right, so if it's decriminalized and you're allowed to possess it, are you allowed to make it?

• 2:07:33Speaker 02

  No, I think just like the process of distributing, I don't even know. But I know like Oxandrol and for example Anavar was recently like banned entirely and it's been allowed to be prescribed for certain neat like hyper-specific niche purposes for decades. It's been around since the eighties.

• 2:07:51Joe Rogan?

  And it's banned in America as well?

• 2:07:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, like recently, uh, it was added to like, uh, it was basically de-approved.

• 2:07:59Joe Rogan?

  But why?

• 2:08:00Speaker 02

  Good question, apparent.

• 2:08:01Joe Rogan?

  But you can still get the COVID-19 vaccine?

• 2:08:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, easily.

• 2:08:04Joe Rogan?

  They'll still tell you to get it.

• 2:08:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:08:06Joe Rogan?

  They try to give it to kids.

• 2:08:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, fucked up, man. Yeah, but, um...

• 2:08:11Joe Rogan?

  It's crazy because like how many people are dying from Anavar?

• 2:08:14Speaker 02

  Not many.

• 2:08:16Joe Rogan?

  Like what's the numbers? It's like, what is it, like Brazil nut deaths?

• 2:08:21Speaker 02

  Like it's definitely not the safe, it's a safe drug, but I mean like it's, you know, when it's used appropriately, it can be fine.

• 2:08:28Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:08:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:08:29Joe Rogan?

  But there's not a crisis?

• 2:08:30Speaker 02

  No, no, yeah.

• 2:08:31Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's the thing. It's like, why are you passing laws when there's not an issue?

• 2:08:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, I don't know what the effect of RFK will be, but it sounds like he might be able to influence things now in like a positive direction to that stuff.

• 2:08:44Joe Rogan?

  He looks a little saucy.

• 2:08:46Speaker 02

  Oh, for sure.

• 2:08:46Joe Rogan?

  He's 70.

• 2:08:47Speaker 02

  He's, I think he admitted that he's on TRT.

• 2:08:50Joe Rogan?

  Clearly. I mean, if you, you would have to be the craziest genetic freak of all time to carry that kind of muscle mass at 70 naturally.

• 2:08:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:08:58Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, so that's good. And he also is open to the idea of, uh, changing the classification of psychedelics as well, which I think is gonna be really important to people. There's, there's a lot of things that morons are preventing society from using and that's really all it is. People who are ignorant to the effects, ignorance to the, they're ignorant to all of it and they're compromised generally by pharmaceutical drug companies.

• 2:09:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, I definitely think psychedelics have utility. One thing I do see that freaks me out though is people permanently changing their brain chemistry with like heavy ayahuasca exposure or whatever.

• 2:09:33Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:09:34Speaker 02

  Like, have you seen, uh... I've seen multiple cases of this on social media as well as in real life. People have gone like retreats and then come back unrecognizable in their demeanor and how they behave. And not in a good way, like weirdos.

• 2:09:47Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I know a few.

• 2:09:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, like have you seen Liver King recently?

• 2:09:51Joe Rogan?

  No, what's going on?

• 2:09:52Speaker 02

  He seems like, I don't know, like borderline schizophrenic now.

• 2:09:56Joe Rogan?

  Okay, but is that also, I think he was mentally ill, right?

• 2:10:00Speaker 02

  Maybe.

• 2:10:01Joe Rogan?

  I would have, listen, let me just classify my definition of mentally illness as someone who lies. I think it's a mental illness. I think lying when it's really obvious.

• 2:10:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:10:12Joe Rogan?

  Like, you know, if I try to tell people I'm six foot three, that's an obvious lie. If I say that over and over again until somebody comes up with a ruler, that's crazy. You have to be a crazy person. That's a mental illness. If you lie and say you're black and you're actually white and you like work for the NAACP like the Rachel Dolezal lady. Kind of mentally ill, right?

• 2:10:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:10:30Joe Rogan?

  That's mental, that's a mental, there's something wrong. You're not like, you're not thinking clear and you're doing a thing that we generally like universally say is a bad thing, which is lying. Right? So if you're doing that, you're lying about taking steroids when it's super obvious you're on steroids. You're 46 years old, you look like a fucking superhero, you're right, just super jacked. You know, and then gets caught. Okay, so now he has to come out and say that he's, now imagine. You've never been famous and then all of a sudden you are really, really famous, really quickly. Over the course of a few years, like social media, all over TikTok, your profile is elevated to the point where you could say to the regular person in the street. You know who Liver King is, like, oh yeah, that roided up guy. Everybody knows who he is.

• 2:11:16Joe Rogan?

  Then the hate because your labs come out and it finds out he's on a shitload of things. This guy's juice to the tits, obviously, for a guy like you or a guy like me. We look at a guy like that, like, you've got to be on the juice. You don't even look remotely normal.

• 2:11:29Speaker 02

  Hey, everyone says that though too, but a lot of people believe them.

• 2:11:33Joe Rogan?

  Well, a lot of people are just ignorant, right? But the people that knew, like yourself, 100%, you knew that that guy was on steroids, right? So then imagine the anxiety that comes with being exposed and then the hate. Now, I don't, this dude, I don't know what this dude does in terms of like social media, if he reads comments, but just imagine the psychological effect of being bombarded by people calling you a piece of shit and a liar and a fraud all day long. Every time you check your Instagram or whatever you got, your YouTube, the comments are filled with people who hate you.

• 2:12:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:12:13Joe Rogan?

  Filled with it and you're just like sitting there stewing in your own shit and just freaking out about your decisions and your, your, your brain probably gets overrun by stress.

• 2:12:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. It's, uh, I, I don't even know, for, for him specifically, either if he did psychedelics or not, I'm pretty sure he's talked about it openly, but it was just like some of the videos were really odd and it kind of reflected behavior I've seen of people who had like experiences gone awry. But certainly not representative of what happens if it's done properly.

• 2:12:47Joe Rogan?

  Well, I think it's depends on if it's done properly to who.

• 2:12:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, like your baseline state and like what you're, yeah.

• 2:12:54Joe Rogan?

  I think there's people, like this is the argument that Alex Berensen had when he wrote that book. You know, he used to write for the New York Times. He wrote a book called Tell Your Children. And it's all, his argument is that marijuana is not safe for everybody, right? It's safe for a lot of people. I know a lot of people use marijuana all the time. They don't have any problems. But I do know multiple people that have gone schizophrenic from marijuana. Now, is it they were going schizophrenic anyway and then these high dose marijuana experiences were the tipping point? We don't really know, but we do know there's a correlation. And I've seen it. I've seen it with multiple people where they were really normal.

• 2:13:33Joe Rogan?

  And then all of a sudden they start talking to you about like, you know, like someone's talking to them in their head and there's a chip and Elon Musk is gonna have them be the king of Mars and like people lose. Lose their shit, man. And they, they go into this world of paranoid fantasy and delusion and it's horrible to see. Especially to someone that you care about, it's really fucking weird.

• 2:13:55Speaker 02

  Kills your REM sleep, too.

• 2:13:56Joe Rogan?

  Marijuana does.

• 2:13:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, if you're using it like to sleep, it can reduce sleep latency, but significantly harms REM sleep. So you might not be getting quality sleep every night, which exacerbates the effect.

• 2:14:08Joe Rogan?

  Definitely fucks with your dreams.

• 2:14:10Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:14:10Joe Rogan?

  You know how I know this? Sober October, when we do Sober October, like immediately I have these wild dreams, like super vivid dreams. I'm like, where are these things been? So like for the whole month, it's crazy.

• 2:14:22Speaker 02

  Do you track the sleep metrics when you're doing Sober October versus?

• 2:14:26Joe Rogan?

  No, I was doing it for a while with Whoop. I was like checking my recovery. I wasn't that, I'm, I'm basically a feel person, like how do I feel? I'm pretty good at knowing how I feel. And if I feel well rested, if I got eight hours sleep and I feel well rested, I'm not even gonna check mine. I don't care. I feel great, let's go, let's go. I just like, I think so much of it is mental. You know, so much of it's like the energy that you have to approach your day is enthusiasm and health. You know, that's where your energy generally comes from.

• 2:14:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, the stress of tracking can sometimes like defeat the purpose as well for some people.

• 2:15:01Joe Rogan?

  I think it's also, you know, I've heard people talk about like addiction. You know, like how many people are addicted to their phones? Most of us, right? There's an addiction to checking like health metrics. There's, and there's also an addiction like competing. But I would say that that's an addiction that's fairly positive. Cause you're addicted to these numbers that are correlated with health benefits. So it's like, what is addiction? Okay, if you're a gambling addict and you're losing your house and your children don't have food, okay, that's a detrimental addiction. But if you're addicted to exercise and you're super fit because of it, you're, you're gonna live longer and you're healthy as fuck and you look great. Is that really an addiction? I'm not sure if we're talking about the same thing.

• 2:15:46Joe Rogan?

  We're talking about the same kind of pattern. But like, I've been addicted to a lot of things. I've been addicted to martial arts, for sure. Like, if I don't, I would be like, out in public and be, if people, if people were boring to me, I'd be thinking of combinations. I'd be like, talking to them, but I'd be, I wasn't thinking about what they were saying. I was thinking about how it hit them. I'd think about like, if they step like this, then I go like that, but what if I step here? I was like, working out footwork and, I would do it in my head, because I was an addict.

• 2:16:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:16:13Joe Rogan?

  But I was addicted to something that was very positive.

• 2:16:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, it's a, you need somewhere to attribute your, I don't know, dopamine to, I guess.

• 2:16:23Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:16:23Speaker 02

  If it's positive, it's like, probably the best thing you could hope for, as long as you don't go over the top, which is pretty difficult to do with health stuff, so.

• 2:16:31Joe Rogan?

  Well, you can break yourself down with overtraining. You know, I would say that my, my good friend David Goggins is breaking his body down with overtraining. And he's, he's got no cartilage in his knees, and he's running thousands of miles. He's a complete psychopath. He must be in agony, like, every step he takes, and he does not give a fuck. He just keeps going, and it's really crazy to see. His doctor looked at his knees and said, and this is from him directly, he said, "I don't know how you could walk on these knees, forget about run thousands of miles."

• 2:17:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:17:02Joe Rogan?

  They had to cut his, his knee, because it's bone on bone, his bone was distorting so much by growing to kind of like, deal with the inflammation and like, it's like some, I forget what it's called, something wolf syndrome, something. So they had to cut his leg, cut his fucking tibia bone, and shift it down, so that it's flat. So they could run flat bone on bone.

• 2:17:28Speaker 02

  That's fucked.

• 2:17:29Joe Rogan?

  Dude, it's madness.

• 2:17:31Speaker 02

  Dude, it's even more madness, is the guys who get their tibia smashed open, and femur, and then get height increasing surgery.

• 2:17:38Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy.

• 2:17:38Speaker 02

  Easy.

• 2:17:40Joe Rogan?

  Do we follow that one guy was like six two who did it?

• 2:17:42Speaker 02

  Dude, I'm doing a podcast with him in two days.

• 2:17:45Joe Rogan?

  What is it called? I got my knees done? Is that what he took his cage down though, didn't he?

• 2:17:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think he was off social media for a while and um I I was actually gonna do a podcast with him last year and then it didn't end up working out and he's available and into the idea still, so.

• 2:18:01Joe Rogan?

  Well, is he fully healed now?

• 2:18:02Speaker 02

  He went from six foot to six foot six.

• 2:18:05Joe Rogan?

  Jesus Christ, look at the size of him. And this is him wheeling himself around. And he was a massive guy too. Like, look at the size of his fucking arms.

• 2:18:14Speaker 02

  The guy is like a genetic freak for muscle for sure and.

• 2:18:18Joe Rogan?

  Let's become taller. They're cranking their legs. This is nuts.

• 2:18:21Speaker 02

  So basically they go in and shove these rods into your legs. Either in the tibia or the femur, or you can do both if you want to max out. And you can basically micro adjust, stretch it to create a separation between the bone, which then fills in with new bone over time. And.

• 2:18:44Joe Rogan?

  This is him seven months after the lengthening process. I want to see what your legs look like, dude. Why I got sweatpants on? See what those little toothpicks look like.

• 2:18:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, so this guy went from like.

• 2:18:52Joe Rogan?

  Nuts.

• 2:18:53Speaker 02

  I don't know what his original height was, but he's six feet now and he was like, I think five, six or five, seven when he started.

• 2:18:58Joe Rogan?

  Wow, that's crazy.

• 2:19:00Speaker 02

  So I have a lot of questions about is your athleticism permanently fucked now? Are you ever gonna be able to squat again? You know, like?

• 2:19:07Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:19:08Speaker 02

  What's life like now? What was the surgery process, rehabilitation?

• 2:19:12Joe Rogan?

  What are your mechanics? Like, you have to change.

• 2:19:14Speaker 02

  You have to learn how to fucking do everything.

• 2:19:16Joe Rogan?

  The distance between your shin, like your kneecap and your foot. If that changes dramatically, like your whole timing is different. You have more, a different leverage. Everything's different. What does it do to your hips?

• 2:19:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:19:30Joe Rogan?

  You know, are you gonna wear your hips out earlier? Like, your body's probably like, has to compensate for these freakishly long shins now.

• 2:19:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, and this guy too, he's a unique phenomenon, even among the people doing this crazy surgery because he got the full six inches, which is not necessarily typical, having both uh bones broken to do it. And then maxing it out at the weight he's at too. So he has to support the recovery on like a I can imagine seemingly like three hundred plus frame or something.

• 2:20:02Joe Rogan?

  Jesus Christ.

• 2:20:03Speaker 02

  So a lot of people who get it done are like five, six, trying to become like five.

• 2:20:06Joe Rogan?

  They weigh one fifty.

• 2:20:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, and it's like more.

• 2:20:09Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:20:09Speaker 02

  It's still probably fucking insane regardless.

• 2:20:11Joe Rogan?

  It's insane.

• 2:20:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:20:13Joe Rogan?

  But it's just, you're only stretching one bone, right?

• 2:20:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, I have to.

• 2:20:18Joe Rogan?

  Are they doing the tibia as well?

• 2:20:19Speaker 02

  It, it, you pick.

• 2:20:20Joe Rogan?

  So the tibia and the fibula rather?

• 2:20:23Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 2:20:23Joe Rogan?

  Are they doing both of them?

• 2:20:24Speaker 02

  Femur or tibia or both.

• 2:20:26Joe Rogan?

  Femur?

• 2:20:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:20:27Joe Rogan?

  Oh.

• 2:20:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, I, I could be misspaking, but I'm pretty sure it's one or the other.

• 2:20:32Joe Rogan?

  Or both?

• 2:20:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:20:33Joe Rogan?

  Oh, Jesus.

• 2:20:34Speaker 02

  He had both done and he like maxed it out.

• 2:20:36Joe Rogan?

  Jesus.

• 2:20:37Speaker 02

  Yeah. So he's a.

• 2:20:39Joe Rogan?

  What is their recovery like?

• 2:20:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, good question, so.

• 2:20:43Joe Rogan?

  So this is this guy after how long?

• 2:20:45Speaker 03

  A couple of weeks after he's throwing how he can jump, which is not much.

• 2:20:49Joe Rogan?

  A couple of weeks after he gets his surgery done?

• 2:20:52Speaker 02

  No, no.

• 2:20:53Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 2:20:53Speaker 03

  No, no, no, sorry.

• 2:20:54Joe Rogan?

  After he gets the bars pull off?

• 2:20:56Speaker 03

  It's like week by week, I think.

• 2:20:58Joe Rogan?

  Jumping after height surgery. Oh, look how skinny his legs are. So he's pretty skinny. So this is him in the beginning, he's trying to do it. I would be terrified to do that.

• 2:21:05Speaker 02

  See, I would be, my curiosity is how athletic were they prior? And then what is their maximal? Like, what's their max out point of recovery in contrast to their baseline? Cause, yeah, you could show me a box jump that looks like you're somewhat functional, but.

• 2:21:22Joe Rogan?

  His legs, that's so crazy.

• 2:21:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, so they like stick a rod in it and micro.

• 2:21:29Speaker 02

  I think like a year probably, or I don't know months.

• 2:21:32Joe Rogan?

  So for a year, you're walking around with these like iron shin plates?

• 2:21:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, it's pretty nuts, dude.

• 2:21:39Joe Rogan?

  Whew.

• 2:21:40Speaker 02

  And, uh.

• 2:21:41Joe Rogan?

  Getting all the bitches now.

• 2:21:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:21:44Joe Rogan?

  Looking all sexy and tall. Now, there was one guy, Jamie, that you pulled up before who had it done and they, they showed him doing some, uh. Athlete, athletic drills, like cone drills and coordination drills, and he looked fucking great. He looked like a real athlete, even though he got it done. It didn't look like it was, unless he's just unbelievably athletic before and maintained a lot of it. I would like to know, like, did you have a decrease? Like, could you, what'd you, I mean, you obviously look insane right now, but what'd you used to be able, be able to do?

• 2:22:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, some of the stuff I'm curious about too is like, how much of the content you see online is like sponsored? Versus actual like user content just reviewing their experience, cause you could see like, for example, hair transplants. Tons of people get sent like fully paid to go get a transplant done as long as they speak positively about it and whatever. So imagine a guy who's getting like specialized attention, which you would want if you're getting your fucking legs broken. And you're getting it covered or whatever, and you just make sure you talk about it positively.

• 2:22:48Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:22:49Speaker 02

  How much of that content is like legit versus, you know, somewhat manufactured?

• 2:22:54Joe Rogan?

  That's a very good point.

• 2:22:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:22:56Joe Rogan?

  That's also one of those things where if you're a social media influencer, you probably want to appear like you're doing all the right things.

• 2:23:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, you would never want to admit that you fucked yourself up for height increasing surgery.

• 2:23:08Joe Rogan?

  I can't walk right, I'm in pain all the time, I can't run anymore.

• 2:23:13Speaker 02

  You'd become the case study for like, why to not do it.

• 2:23:16Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:23:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:23:17Joe Rogan?

  I wonder, I mean, I wonder like what kind of an effect that would have on your mechanics, I really do. I would imagine for martial arts, like you know where everything is, like, like if I'm throwing a kick. I know exactly where my shin is gonna land from the distance that I'm at. Like, I've got like this mind, my mind is coordinated for this short body. I know exactly how much distance I have to cover. If all of a sudden you add six inches to that.

• 2:23:45Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:23:46Joe Rogan?

  You're all, you're, everything is weird.

• 2:23:48Speaker 02

  Dude, even gaining, even gaining a bit of muscle can throw off your depth perception of how strong, like for example, when I was in high school, I played basketball. And I started working out in grade 11 and gained like 50 pounds in a year. And my three pointer that used to be just like, just fucking money every time. I knew exactly how to shoot the ball like it was, you know, just second nature to, cause you've been doing it for a decade or whatever. And then all of a sudden you add this extra force production that you're not accounting for. All of a sudden, everything's thrown off.

• 2:24:23Joe Rogan?

  Uh, and also you're sore all the time because you're always lifting, which makes you tight.

• 2:24:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, it became a brick house after that.

• 2:24:29Joe Rogan?

  It's a giant problem with pool, you know, because I'm addicted to playing pool. When I lift weights and then play pool, it takes like an hour before I can loosen up and play good. Everything's off. It's like my arm's not listening right. It's all stiff. Like for pool, you wanna like, when I'm playing really well, I'm barely holding on to that cue. It's like, I'm almost letting the cue do all the work. It's like a very gentle thing. But then when I've been like, I do like a heavy kettlebell session and then I try to play pool, it's like, everything's just tight and goofy and clunky and you can't, you don't feel it. Like pool is like a feel game. Like you're feeling how many rotations you're putting on the ball to get it to move to the next position.

• 2:25:13Joe Rogan?

  Like literally, you're within one or two rotations correctly. And that's the, the difference between getting into an area where you can make the next shot or not. So it's all feel. Like these guy, like Fedor Gorst, who's like one of the best players in the world. He, he changed cues. He changed cue companies. The same weight, the same like taper, the same tip millimeter. And he said his shot was about 10% off. He goes 6 to 10% off. I was like, what? Like how? He's like, you just, it's off. It takes a while to recalibrate.

• 2:25:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, this is one of those examples where like, you know, in MMA too, like if you gain a bunch of muscle from drugs even, like it's not necessarily beneficial. Your mobility could be inhibited, flexibility. Gas out quicker.

• 2:26:03Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 2:26:03Speaker 02

  Even in BJJ, it's like, and you can sauce to the tits, but like, it might not be helpful to the capacity. You can actually push it.

• 2:26:10Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:26:10Speaker 02

  You know, you might gas out quicker. All of a sudden, you can't do things that you used to do.

• 2:26:14Joe Rogan?

  I think the key is moderation in lifting in regard to, unless you're on the sauce. You know, if you're doing anything like MMA or any skill-based thing, because as soon as you're tight and sore, you're not going to learn well. You're, you're, you're, you're not going to have a snap to your punches. You'll be pushing punches, you know, there's, there's a fluidity. Like, some of the hardest techniques almost look effortless. Cause there's a fluidity to the, like, if you're landing a kick, for example, like a hard kick, like a spinning back kick, like what Jon Jones knocked out Steve Amiotchich with. There's a, there's a dance going on with your nervous system, with all your muscles moving in coordination. If you think of how complex that movement is, right?

• 2:26:59Joe Rogan?

  He's standing like this sideways and he's looking for the, and at the right moment, he pivots on the ball of his foot, turns his heel towards the person, rotates his entire body this way and shoves his leg forward, pushing off his back leg with all of his weight and there's a timing. You don't want to hit him here and you don't want to hit him at the end of it. You want to hit him right in the sweet spot. So you've got to know, your foot on extension is going to be properly distanced from his rib cage in order for you to get maximum force. And it's all happening in a fraction of a second. It's just womp! And when it lands, it's like getting hit by a fucking car. And if you, but it's a dance.

• 2:27:45Joe Rogan?

  And if you, here, he see him do this. Look at this. Fucking dance, man. Watch this. Look at that turn. Boom! I mean, it's perfection.

• 2:27:53Speaker 02

  I had a feeling that if anyone could appreciate this, it would be. Yeah, you for sure, given this is like your signature, right?

• 2:28:01Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that's my specialty kick.

• 2:28:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:28:03Joe Rogan?

  That's, uh, yeah.

• 2:28:05Speaker 02

  Not that everyone is impressed by it, but like I knew you would see it as like.

• 2:28:09Joe Rogan?

  I was so hyped up for it because I, I always wondered why more people don't throw it. And that's also the same kick that Max Holloway landed on Justin Gagey at the end of the first round. He fucked him up at the end of the first round with a spinning back kick to the face, which is a crazy kick to take in the mud. Sick fight. Sick fight, but that, it's, but you know, Stipe is one of the toughest guys to ever walk the face of the earth. For him to go down like that, look at the force, look at the force. Boom! I mean, your whole, his rib went in, like, look how deep it goes in. On impact, look how fucking deep his heel is in, look at that, that's insane.

• 2:28:45Speaker 02

  That's like the body equivalent of that Tony Ferguson picture.

• 2:28:48Joe Rogan?

  Right, right, the one where he gets front kicked in the face, yeah. On, I mean, that is incredible amount of penetration, look at that.

• 2:28:55Speaker 02

  Ugh.

• 2:28:56Joe Rogan?

  I mean, all of his organs just went into shock right there. And if he was on the other side, it would be even more devastating. Cause that's not even the side where the liver is.

• 2:29:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:29:05Joe Rogan?

  That's just general organ trauma.

• 2:29:08Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:29:08Joe Rogan?

  You know? And he just can't take it, he just goes down and then that's a wrap.

• 2:29:14Speaker 02

  So what happens when Aspinall fights John Jones?

• 2:29:18Joe Rogan?

  I, God, I hope they fight. I wanna know.

• 2:29:20Speaker 02

  It's gotta happen, right?

• 2:29:21Joe Rogan?

  Here's a question with Aspinall, what happens with Aspinall in the second round?

• 2:29:26Speaker 02

  Oh, I guess he hasn't.

• 2:29:27Joe Rogan?

  You wanna talk about a guy with sprints?

• 2:29:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:29:28Joe Rogan?

  You wanna talk about a guy with fast twitch? Aspinall's one of the fastest heavyweights, he might be the fastest heavyweight in the history of the sport. I don't think anybody moves like that guy does. At a, at a 250 plus pound frame, his movement's fucking extraordinary. And that's something you have to deal with, like, that is a crazy ability. His ability to move, like, the way he moves is so much different than everybody else in the sport. Like, pu- Google, let's, let's come up with a good Aspinall fight. Uh, about, the Curtis Blades fight was pretty quick. But how about the last one with, the Pavlich fight where he won the interim title? That's a good one.

• 2:30:08Speaker 02

  That's a minute, I got Volkov was three minutes?

• 2:30:11Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, all of his fights, like all together, he's fought like 10 minutes. Everybody gets blown out. Yeah, but let's, let's watch one of them, like the, the, the only loss he has was he blew his knee out throwing a kick, which is crazy, what, he didn't even get hit. He threw a, a round kick and his ACL exploded. So, let's see, uh, Marcin Tabura, that's a good one. He's so fucking fast dude. The Andrej Lasky fight, you can see, that, that's pretty fast too. We'll, we'll put the Tabura one, it's the left, left hand side, go above that, above that to the left. Right there, click on that.

• 2:30:48Speaker 02

  No, but it's gonna be a small, I can't control this.

• 2:30:50Joe Rogan?

  That's fine, that's fine. I just wanted to show his movement. Look how fast he moves in. I mean, that guy's so fucking fast. He moves like a 175 pounder. He doesn't move like a 250 pound guy. Look how quickly he closes the distance, man. His hand speed and full range of skills. Incredible stand-up, knocks guys out with one punch, black belt in jiu-jitsu, really good wrestler. His everything, and he's young.

• 2:31:18Speaker 02

  So what's your prediction if it happens?

• 2:31:20Joe Rogan?

  It's, you, it's hard to bet against John. It's hard to bet against John, but John's not a real heavyweight. John could make light heavyweight, 100%. He weights 230 right now, maybe a little less than 230. There's no doubt in my mind that if John just changed his diet and went, but he hasn't put that much mass on, that you would say 205 is out of reach.

• 2:31:40Speaker 02

  No, it's a fluffy weight, a lot of it too.

• 2:31:43Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I mean, look, he had always had the reputation of fucking all the heavyweights up at Jackson Winklejohn. Always. Everybody said like, when Brendan went down and trained with him, Brendan was a heavyweight, Brendan Schaub, he's like, "He fucked me up." He goes, "Dude, I was like, top 10 in the world as a heavyweight, I thought I was the shit, he fucked me up." He goes, "He beat my ass." And he goes, "He beat everybody else's ass too." All the other heavyweights, ragdoll dudes way bigger than him, he's just a freak.

• 2:32:09Speaker 02

  His wingspan is like, how much longer than his height though too?

• 2:32:14Joe Rogan?

  It's crazy.

• 2:32:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's insane.

• 2:32:15Joe Rogan?

  Crazy reach and also just skillful. His skills are so rock solid in every way, shape or form, his stand-up, his submissions, he's crazy strong. He's got just insane mind for fighting.

• 2:32:29Speaker 02

  And would he blow out Pereira, you think, where it's not even a worthwhile?

• 2:32:35Joe Rogan?

  The problem is the ground. John's so much better on the ground, like world's better. You know, and it takes so long to get really good on the ground. And we've seen Pereira get in trouble with guys on the ground that are nowhere near John's level. Nowhere near. John dominates everybody. He took down Daniel Cormier. Daniel Cormier is an Olympic wrestler. I mean, he's a fucking phenomenal wrestler. And John took him down, and took him down multiple times. He's a different dude, man. This is what we're talking about like with genetics, right? There's some guys, they're just blessed. And then with John, it's blessed and his mind. It's not just, it's his personality, his like ruthless competitiveness. He's like, he's not going to fucking lose. He's going to find a way to get you.

• 2:33:20Joe Rogan?

  And he's gonna do it clever. He's not trying to take a bunch of punishment and stand and bang. He's not gonna point the center of the octagon, "Let's go right here, we'll stand right here." Never gonna happen with John Jones. You're not getting none of that, son. You're getting knees to the gut, you're getting your knees kicked. You're getting fucking just liced up with elbows where your fucking head's bleeding. He's gonna slowly dismantle you and find a way to submit you. Or punish you, beat you to death on the ground. But can he do that with a guy like Aspinall? Who's a legit 255-pound natural, who moves like he's 80 pounds lighter. He's a freak, man. Aspinall's a freak. Like, I've seen a lot of heavyweight, even Francis, who's like the greatest,

• 2:34:04Joe Rogan?

  scariest power striker I've ever seen in the heavyweight division. No one's scarier than Francis. Francis does not move like Tom Aspinall. Tom Aspinall is significantly faster than every other heavyweight. That's a real problem. That's a real problem. But John has been used to fighting guys like Alexander Gustafson. Guys who are really fast at light heavyweights. So the speed is not gonna be as much of an adjustment. Like, John's used to really fast people. He fought Leoto Machida when Machida was in his prime. Machida was a lightning bolt, man. And he caught John a bunch of times. But then there's the thing of getting caught by Leoto Machida is not like getting caught by 255-pound Tom Aspinall.

• 2:34:46Speaker 02

  It's pretty crazy being at the top of the sport for like two eras essentially.

• 2:34:51Joe Rogan?

  No one like him.

• 2:34:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, like when I was like a fucking teenager watching UFC, it was like Leoto versus him. You have like Mauricio Shogun, who fights and yeah.

• 2:35:00Joe Rogan?

  He's 14 years at the top.

• 2:35:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:35:04Joe Rogan?

  14 years and they're debating whether or not he's the pound for pound best fighter alive right now. Islam Makachev currently holds that standing and I think that is voted amongst experts. I think that's what, you know, air quotes experts, some of these guys don't know jack shit. There's guys who vote on this that literally have never rolled a day in their life and that's a fact.

• 2:35:25Speaker 02

  The meme's pretty funny though, where it's like every time Dana says John Jones is the best. And they'll put it in front of like, it'll be like, I don't know, some obscene scenario. It'll be like somebody getting a terminal illness diagnosis or something. And then Dana White comes in and he's like, but John Jones is the best fucking fighter of all time.

• 2:35:43Joe Rogan?

  Um, I want to make sure that what I said was accurate. Like who does get to decide what the pound for pound list is? I believe it's MMA journalists and experts. Now, there's MMA journalists that I know that are really nice guys and I don't want to say any names, but I know they never worked out a fucking day in their life and they love the sport and they cover it fairly. And they're very knowledgeable and they're very good at reciting stats and understanding things. But how much do you really know? Ratings were generated by a voting panel made up of media members. See, that's a problem. Media members were asked to vote on who they feel the best top fighters in the UFC by weight class and pound for pound. A fighter is only eligible to be voted on if they are active status in the UFC. Now, this is not to disparage any of these media people.

• 2:36:28Joe Rogan?

  Like I said, I love them. I'm friends with a lot of them. They're great guys. They, there's no way you absolutely understand someone's ability, especially when you're talking about pound for pound, unless you've done martial arts. I just don't think, I can see, like when John threw that kick, I see that kick and I go, that was beautiful. That was beautiful because I know how it kicks. I know what's supposed to happen. You're just guessing. You're guessing on what, you've never done that on somebody. If you've never done that, you don't know how beautiful that is. You don't really get it. You kind of get it, but you get it the way I get flying a plane. I never flew a plane. I kind of see they pull the lever. That guy did a great job flying that plane. Look how he landed. Perfect. I don't know what's really going on.

• 2:37:12Joe Rogan?

  You know, but when it comes to martial arts, I know what's really going on. You know, and when you look at a guy like John Jones. I don't think you can make a greatest of all time, complete argument. I, the way I like to look at it. I say. Who had the highest expression of martial arts excellence during their prime? Like what, I don't mean the entire career. I don't mean now, I mean. When they were hot, like when Anderson Silva was hot. How good was that? Was that better than anything that ever existed? Cause I think it might've been. And though that's what I look at when I look at like pound for pound best.

• 2:37:53Joe Rogan?

  So the argument is John Jones has had some really close fights. He's had like split decision fights that he won. He had a lot of people thought that, you know, some of his fights. Could like the Dominic Reyes.

• 2:38:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, dude, that was close.

• 2:38:07Joe Rogan?

  Could have easily gone to Dominic Reyes.

• 2:38:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:38:09Joe Rogan?

  Easily, and I would not have been mad at that.

• 2:38:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:38:12Joe Rogan?

  And you know, I might. Go back and watch it again and decide Dominic Reyes won that fight.

• 2:38:17Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 2:38:17Joe Rogan?

  But there's those 10, nine rounds that are like, I don't know. You could say 10, nine John or 10, nine Dominic and either way you've lost the title or you've won the title back. You know, like it's, it's real weird. Makachev is so fucking good. He's so fucking good that he head kicked Alexander Volkanovski in the rematch. He submits everybody, submitted Dustin Poirier. He's a fucking monster. When he gets guys on the ground, he just. Crushes them and you could argue that he's dealing with a, a deeper talent pool. So his weight class is in my opinion, the most talent rich weight pool in the sport, 155 pounds. 155 pounds is filled with assassins. 205 pounds is not.

• 2:39:01Joe Rogan?

  265 is definitely not. It's the giant difference. So when you're talking pound for pound.

• 2:39:07Speaker 02

  Since those divisions were like really heated with depth. Like back.

• 2:39:11Joe Rogan?

  Which ones?

• 2:39:12Speaker 02

  Light, light heavy especially. They used to be like the fucking division to watch.

• 2:39:17Joe Rogan?

  Imagine though, if Pereira was coming up when John Jones was the champion. That would be exciting.

• 2:39:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:39:22Joe Rogan?

  That would be exciting. Pereira is a different cat, man. He said, "Did you hear what Mark Goddard said to me in the fight after he fought Khalil Roundtree? Mark Goddard came up to me, he goes, "Mate, the sound it makes when he hits them is ungodly." He goes, "I've been doing this for 20 years." He goes, "The sound he makes is just different. It's ungodly." He just kept saying that. He wanted to make a point to say this to me. He came up to me like immediately when I got into the octagon, he's like, "The sound is ungodly." His power is so different. It's so... Do you know like Francis hit that punch pad and he got like 127 or whatever? Pereira got 190.

• 2:40:04Speaker 02

  Oh yeah, that like...

• 2:40:05Joe Rogan?

  190.

• 2:40:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:40:07Joe Rogan?

  Do you know how crazy that is? With a kick, the highest I got was like 157. Some guy got like 190 with a kick. We're pretty impressed. I think some guy might have broken 200 with a kick, some Muay Thai guy. Pereira did 190 with a punch. With a punch.

• 2:40:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:40:25Joe Rogan?

  And it was after training. He just wallops this fucking thing.

• 2:40:28Speaker 02

  And they come out of nowhere. Like there's not really a...

• 2:40:30Joe Rogan?

  There's no call. Yeah, there's no tell. And he doesn't have to hit you full power because he has so much power, like those leg kicks that he fucks everybody with. There's no turn of the hips at all. He's just slapping you and all of a sudden you can't walk well. And then he's like marching you down and it just takes one shot. His power is so crazy. Different than anybody else's. Cause everybody gets hit on the chin. But when you get hit on the chin by that guy, it's like you can't get hit. You get hit, it's like, everything is just like, you're like, "What the fuck?" You see it in their face.

• 2:41:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, I remember the first time I was here, we were talking about how this guy, Pereira is the only one who's ever beat Adesanya and he seems like this fucking assassin. We were like, "Oh, that's, you know, interesting timeline." Didn't know it would transpire into like this degree of success where not only does he beat him, but then he like switches divisions, fucking smokes that division too.

• 2:41:23Joe Rogan?

  It's crazy.

• 2:41:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:41:24Joe Rogan?

  Dominated two divisions. And the only reason why he didn't stay at light heavyweight, or at middleweight rather, he's literally killing himself to get to 185.

• 2:41:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:41:31Joe Rogan?

  And I think that likely contributed to the KO too. Like Adesanya landed a perfect right hand. That right hand is gonna fuck him up every day of the week, no matter what you weigh. It's just perfect. And the timing, the way he did it, like leaning up against the cage and just looked for the opening and just caught him coming in, bang, dropped him, hit him with the left hook, put the arrows into him when he's down. That KO was perfect, but you gotta wonder like how much of his inability like he went completely unconscious. How much of that is because of the drain, the dehydration? Because we know that the brain takes longer to rehydrate than the muscle tissue.

• 2:42:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:42:07Joe Rogan?

  So like they.

• 2:42:08Speaker 02

  Oh, some impact for sure.

• 2:42:10Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, fighters always say that it impacts their ability to take a punch. They talk about it like openly, like I took punches better when I went up to 55. Like a good example is Olivera. Olivera was like notorious for kind of like folding at 45. He goes up to 55 and he becomes unstoppable.

• 2:42:26Speaker 02

  Hmm, yeah, no, it's a, I'm surprised he ever sucked out of that to begin with. It's pretty.

• 2:42:32Joe Rogan?

  He's so big that he was getting, making 185 and then fighting at 226.

• 2:42:38Speaker 02

  That's even more aggressive than the Costa cuts, I think.

• 2:42:42Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 2:42:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:42:43Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's, he's, I think he's got the most, he had the most aggressive weight cut. Now it's pretty marginal. Now I think he gets into the low 220s, like 222, 220, and then, you know, he cuts 15. Not that bad for a big guy with a lot of muscle.

• 2:42:57Speaker 02

  Dude, Costa needs to go back to brawling, eh? He used to be so exciting and now it's just kind of like, has different strategies each time and then, I don't know. It just doesn't seem to be working out.

• 2:43:08Joe Rogan?

  It's hard to know what happens to a guy when he gets really owned.

• 2:43:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:43:13Joe Rogan?

  Cause that's the thing.

• 2:43:13Speaker 02

  Oh, you think he's like psychologically just.

• 2:43:15Joe Rogan?

  I don't think he's the same guy, like that's the guy who walked down Yoel Romero. And we were like, oh my God, Yoel Romero met a bigger freak than him. Cause regardless of whether or not you think Costa's juicy, that guy's got extraordinary genetics. You know, I mean, that's why he's such a beautiful man, perfect features, like incredible frame. His frame's incredible and whether or not he's juicy, the, the reality is the guy has insane genetics. And he was a fucking warrior, especially in that Yoel Romero fight. Yoel's terrifying to everybody and Costa just walked him down and beat his ass. And that was not a close fight. It was primarily a stand-up fight, which is where Yoel's the most scary. And Costa was in no danger.

• 2:43:56Joe Rogan?

  He beat the shit out of Yoel Romero, but then he fought a guy who was just way more slick. And Adesanya just was piecing him up in a way where he couldn't respond. He just, he was making. He was, what he was doing was a very effective strategy on people that weren't as skillful as Adesanya. But that strategy Adesanya was easily exploiting. He was like exploiting him with distance and with feints and distant management and chopping at the legs and just he had him all fucked up by the end of the first round. He was realizing, I can't touch this guy and he keeps hitting me. And when he would touch Izzy, Izzy would be rolling with the punches or he blocked the kick and just move away from it as he's getting hit. And then just keep stabbing at him from a distance. And it was just, he was too good.

• 2:44:41Joe Rogan?

  That's Izzy in his prime, when he was at the top of the food chain and at that moment, he felt, he fought the best Israel Adesanya that's ever been. And that's like we were talking about like, how good does a guy compete in that one step, this gap of a couple of years or three years? Where he's just, it is prime. I think that was what it was. That was Izzy in his prime, which is one of the greatest fighters of all time. Against Paulo Costa, who just didn't have the answers to that. And once you've been bested like that and a guy dry humps you when you're down, he beats your ass, TKOs you and then humps you. You just like, I thought it was the man.

• 2:45:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:45:19Joe Rogan?

  So then he has all these doubts and then he goes into these, the next fights, he missed weight for one fight and fought at 205. Remember when he fought, um, who the fuck did he fight? Uh.

• 2:45:33Joe Rogan?

  God damn it, I can't, Marvin Vettori. He fought Marvin Vettori and they were supposed to be fighting at 185 and they fought at like 205 and he still looked like he was out of shape.

• 2:45:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:45:40Joe Rogan?

  He looked like he's mentally all fucked up from that fight.

• 2:45:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, I can imagine the downward spiral that you would have to try and contend with as well after you like, go from top ranked to, I think he's lost like three in a row.

• 2:45:53Joe Rogan?

  It's crazy.

• 2:45:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:45:54Joe Rogan?

  I'd like to see him get back into form, but I don't know if he can anymore. You know, I don't know if you're psychologically the same guy.

• 2:46:00Speaker 02

  Did you watch CGI?

• 2:46:04Joe Rogan?

  Uh, what is that?

• 2:46:05Speaker 02

  The Craig Jones invitation?

• 2:46:06Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah. I was thinking, what does the CGI stand for? Um, yeah, yeah, I watched it. Yeah, I watched it.

• 2:46:12Speaker 02

  Yeah. What'd you think?

• 2:46:14Joe Rogan?

  Well, I think it's great that these guys are getting a lot of money. I think that's awesome. And it's kinda crazy they decided to compete against Abu Dhabi in the same weekend. I thought that was kinda nuts. But I guess, if you wanna be controversial, and Craig is certainly controversial, and you wanna get a lot of attention, it got a lot of attention. And then, of course, the money. I mean, he came into the studio with three million dollars in cash.

• 2:46:34Speaker 02

  Was it three?

• 2:46:35Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, wasn't it? Uh, one. It was one million? Oh, it was one million, okay.

• 2:46:39Speaker 02

  But even that, it's like-

• 2:46:40Joe Rogan?

  But they gave out three billion dollars, right? So three, three different divisions got a million dollars. So he brought in a million dollars in a duffel bag, which I've, I've never seen that before. It's crazy to look at.

• 2:46:50Speaker 02

  No, yeah, it's, uh, not easy to get.

• 2:46:53Joe Rogan?

  You know, it's fun. Craig's fun. He's a funny guy. He's fucking hilarious. He's the most hilarious guy in jiu-jitsu.

• 2:46:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:46:59Joe Rogan?

  He's like, really silly, he's very self-deprecating, and he's super skillful. I mean, his jiu-jitsu is like, second best in the world. Like, he always talks about, let's wait. He named his team the B-Team.

• 2:47:10Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:47:10Joe Rogan?

  He's not gonna beat Gordon. You know, Gordon is a freak. And Gordon is like, a real psychopath. Like, Gordon trains every day of the week.

• 2:47:18Speaker 02

  Gordon versus Nicky Rod, who wins?

• 2:47:21Joe Rogan?

  Gordon.

• 2:47:21Speaker 02

  No question?

• 2:47:22Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, Gordon's better.

• 2:47:23Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 2:47:24Joe Rogan?

  He's just better. Nicky Rod might get to Gordon's level one day.

• 2:47:27Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 2:47:27Joe Rogan?

  I mean, but if they're not training together, I don't know if he will. You know, I don't know if he's training with, look, he's beat him every time they faced him.

• 2:47:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:47:35Joe Rogan?

  And Nicky did catch him in a footlock, but Gordon's like, "Go ahead, break my foot. I'm still gonna win."

• 2:47:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:47:40Joe Rogan?

  And he submitted him easily in Abu Dhabi.

• 2:47:43Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 2:47:43Joe Rogan?

  And when they had their second match, you know, Gordon was alleging he was greasy. Like, he was difficult to get a hold of. And that's been something that people have said about Nicky before. But it might be soily food, I don't know.

• 2:47:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:47:57Joe Rogan?

  I don't know. I don't know what's going on, but I know guys did that. I know guys would take baths. This was in the early days, like, the Pride days. They would lay in a bathtub filled with baby oil. So they would lay in this bathtub with water and like, fucking gallons of like, P. Diddy-style-

• 2:48:16Joe Rogan?

  P T D style fucking like just supplies of baby oil in that water and they'd bathe in it. Then they would wash themselves off, dry themselves off. And then to the touch, their skin would not feel like oil at all until they started sweating. And then when they started sweating, they'd be like a fish, just you just couldn't grab them.

• 2:48:34Speaker 02

  Oh, my God.

• 2:48:35Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that was the thing that it was alleged that certain strikers from Brazil used to do before they fought. And guys just could not get a hold of them. They would just be so slippery. You couldn't take them down. If you take them down, you couldn't hold them down. It's like just slip right out of your hands like a bar of soap.

• 2:48:50Speaker 02

  And how would you avoid, do they screen for that somehow in the UFC or like, how's that work?

• 2:48:56Joe Rogan?

  The problem is what I'm saying, that you could oil your skin up and then wash it. And they would still be in your pores and you wouldn't even be able to detect. As long as you were dry, they would rub you with like a cloth or something like, nope, there's nothing on his skin. Like what do they, unless they have like baby oil detection wipes. That you then send to a laboratory to find out this person put baby oil on. So are you never allowed to put baby oil on or are you only allowed to put baby oil on? Until the week of the fight, like when, when are we gonna say no baby oil ever for a person? What if they like baby oil? What if they like to, you know, what if they like cocoa butter? What do you? It's so it's weird.

• 2:49:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:49:35Joe Rogan?

  It's weird. And so the, the solution to that is everybody has to wear long sleeve rash guards and spats. That's the solution and that's what they should do. So the best way to stop these greasers is you put them in leggings, leggings and tights. Simple.

• 2:49:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, I remember that was like a bit of a controversy, at least in early UFC was like.

• 2:49:57Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:49:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:49:58Joe Rogan?

  I know guys greased. I 100%, I can tell you 100% guys greased.

• 2:50:03Speaker 02

  Even like between rounds, the two.

• 2:50:05Joe Rogan?

  I know one guy who didn't just grease. He put Vicks VapoRub all over his chest.

• 2:50:11Speaker 02

  Jesus.

• 2:50:11Joe Rogan?

  And then he would grab guys and pull their head into his chest. So you'd be getting sweat and Vicks VapoRub in your eyes and he'd be kneeing you in the face.

• 2:50:21Speaker 02

  That's fucking crazy, dude.

• 2:50:22Joe Rogan?

  Crazy.

• 2:50:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:50:24Joe Rogan?

  Well, when they weren't testing for things, dudes did a lot of dirty shit.

• 2:50:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:50:28Joe Rogan?

  I heard another story. I can't substantiate. I will say no names. But a guy allegedly.

• 2:50:34Joe Rogan?

  Gave blood to make weight. So he not didn't give blood, but had blood removed from his body and chilled in his room. So that he can make weight. And then went back up to his room and got that blood put back in his body after his body had probably. You know, resupplied itself with a significant amount of it, depending on how much time it is between the fact they withdraw the blood. I don't know how long, how much time. But you could think about like how much weight blood is.

• 2:51:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:51:00Joe Rogan?

  And if you can get like. You know, how much can you take while you're still conscious? I don't know. But you take these bags of blood and keep them chilled. And then. Let your body re. Fill and rep proliferate with blood and then go back into the room. And now you're blood doping with your own blood.

• 2:51:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:51:17Joe Rogan?

  Totally undetectable and you made weight with blood cutting.

• 2:51:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, and that's like another. Microdose. Vector that people use still to this day. Blood. It's all against blood transfusions.

• 2:51:28Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's when there's probably multiple factors where you're not allowed to get IVs and that might be one of them.

• 2:51:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, but it's like detecting that is always just through your data that they have to assess. Or they assess for like plastics.

• 2:51:40Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:51:40Speaker 02

  In your bloodstream, which you can get around just by storage technique.

• 2:51:44Joe Rogan?

  Right. Um, plastics in your bloodstream, would you get around that if you injected it with a glass vial? And a needle as opposed to like a bag?

• 2:51:55Speaker 02

  Some people are like freezing as opposed to just like storing it in liquid format. And then whatever you're storing it in. It can all make a difference in terms of like.

• 2:52:04Joe Rogan?

  Freezing it?

• 2:52:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:52:05Joe Rogan?

  Like you can freeze your blood and then put it back in?

• 2:52:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:52:08Joe Rogan?

  Whoa.

• 2:52:08Speaker 02

  Yeah. Like thawed out, obviously.

• 2:52:10Joe Rogan?

  But how weird is that?

• 2:52:11Speaker 02

  Super weird.

• 2:52:13Joe Rogan?

  How long is your blood good for?

• 2:52:15Speaker 02

  That's a good question, but I would imagine longer if you're freezing it.

• 2:52:19Joe Rogan?

  Jesus Christ. The things people do just to get a little bit of an advantage.

• 2:52:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, but it works, man. Like that's.

• 2:52:26Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:52:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, and it's like at least of the doping methods, like one of the least. Easy to detect because there's no like substance that is stimulating anything. It's just your own blood that was supposed to be there.

• 2:52:38Joe Rogan?

  Right, so the only way they'd be able to detect is to detect whether or not you've had an IV.

• 2:52:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, it would be like they'd look at your biological passport data and see unusual elevation of hemoglobin hematocrit, probably around an event. And you would also see a disproportionate suppression of reticulocytes, which are like immature red blood cells. Cause if your body has, similar to testosterone, if you administer it, you stop producing naturally. So if you put in exogenous blood, you're going to suppress the natural production of red blood cells because you have an adequate supply.

• 2:53:14Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:53:14Speaker 02

  So you would have a disproportionate ratio between like blood cells, oxygen carrying capacity markers, and immature blood cells. And it's like, why is this differential so significant all of a sudden?

• 2:53:26Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:53:26Speaker 02

  And it might flag in a typical finding and get further scrutiny. And yeah, with blood transfusions, because there's no way to really prove anything. Oftentimes penalizations occur based on like, it looks so fucked up that we have to penalize you because we assumed you did it.

• 2:53:43Joe Rogan?

  Like, how would they detect that?

• 2:53:45Speaker 02

  Like, I think it's just such an aberrant finding that's different from everything you've ever showed in your data that you must have cheated.

• 2:53:52Joe Rogan?

  Oh, right. So the biological passport.

• 2:53:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, because it's like with other compounds like testosterone, you need to have like confirmation via isotope ratio mass spec or whatever. But with blood, it's like, what did you do? Like, there's no compound to prove was or wasn't there. It's just like the blood.

• 2:54:11Joe Rogan?

  But it is illegal, right? So you'd have to have a nurse that can keep their mouth shut.

• 2:54:15Speaker 02

  Or a significant other who is a nurse or a myriad of different things.

• 2:54:20Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:54:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:54:21Joe Rogan?

  Right, right, right.

• 2:54:22Speaker 02

  And some of this stuff isn't like hard to really learn either. Like, it's actually a pretty good profession is learning how to take, like, some people do a phlebotomy as like a low barrier to entry, high paying job. So like, being somebody who takes blood is like, there's not much of a requirement from like credentials to be able to do it, and it pays well per hour.

• 2:54:47Joe Rogan?

  Hmm. Yeah, and if you had a family member who's a phlebotomist and they could hook that up.

• 2:54:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:54:52Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:54:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:54:54Joe Rogan?

  What are the other different ways that they can get it? Like, how rock solid is like, the, let's, uh, forget about drug sport, what they, what they have now, but the USADA protocol that they were using before? How, what are the best ways to get around that?

• 2:55:07Speaker 02

  Um, well, because they weren't actually testing almost at all for EPO and GH.

• 2:55:14Joe Rogan?

  How mu- like, what percentage were they testing for it?

• 2:55:17Speaker 02

  Um, you'd probably have to ask Hunter to confirm, but my understanding was like, best case scenario, you were getting EPO tested if somebody like, reported you as like, you know, there's a bunch of people trying to out you as a cheater.

• 2:55:31Joe Rogan?

  And again, is this a finance thing? Is this a?

• 2:55:33Speaker 02

  Uh, I think it was a lot finance and time intensive and, cause it, some of this testing is not as rudimentary and crude as like, you know, just detection of synthetic steroids in your urine. You have to actually like manually do work to like combust down and assess the ratio. And there's like nuance in interpreting this stuff too. Cause it's, a lot of times you will have an expert who has a different opinion than another expert in terms of it, if it looks weird.

• 2:56:00Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:56:00Speaker 02

  So you have to like bring in multiple opinions too, maybe of experts who then kinda come to a consolidated answer on, did you cheat or not? And it gets pretty complicated. So doing this at scale on a sport that has no off season with people globally competing. Like, pretty fucking costly for sure to do properly.

• 2:56:21Joe Rogan?

  Well, the MMA conspiracy theorists, they always point to like people doing their camps in like faraway lands. Like, what a good way to cheat.

• 2:56:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:56:29Joe Rogan?

  You know, cause if you wanna do a camp in Dagestan, like how many times is USADA going to Dagestan?

• 2:56:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:56:35Joe Rogan?

  And what happens to those guys when they get over there and they get smacked up by those bearded dudes? Imagine telling those guys, wake up at six o'clock in the morning.

• 2:56:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:56:45Joe Rogan?

  They'll feed you their goats. Like, what are you talking about?

• 2:56:47Speaker 02

  Fuck you, come back tomorrow.

• 2:56:49Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, fuck you.

• 2:56:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:56:50Joe Rogan?

  No, it's, uh... Also, they probably know when you're there.

• 2:56:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:56:54Joe Rogan?

  They probably got that town wired.

• 2:56:55Speaker 02

  There's absolutely logistical problems that lead to lower barriers for certain people.

• 2:57:02Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:57:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:57:03Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, like, do you camp in Thailand, son?

• 2:57:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, for sure.

• 2:57:07Joe Rogan?

  You gotta wonder, like, I would like to see, like, what are, what's the data on people that do their camp in Thailand? How often are they tested versus a guy who's got a camp in Iowa?

• 2:57:17Speaker 02

  And even like, the rigor of the person who's hired to do the testing, because it's like, how, you know, scrutiny is whoever you're outsourcing, you're hiring in that area to, like, you know, they could be like, a local who is, you know, like, pledged allegiance to that fucking,

• 2:57:35Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:57:36Speaker 02

  You know, whatever.

• 2:57:36Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:57:37Speaker 02

  So, I don't know, man. It's, it's tough for sure, because it, there's no way to like, truly bulletproof it, I think, but at least the UFC developments as of recent, they've confirmed they're doing, like, isotope ratio mass spec and actually doing some of the higher level testing for bioidenticals that could catch the microdosing and the things that are very difficult to detect. Stuff is still gonna squeeze through, for sure, but it's gonna be better than it was, where they were either not doing it, or then letting, letting people do it maybe, and then asking them to be fucking snitches for them.

• 2:58:12Joe Rogan?

  It used to be, back in the day, that there was always rumors of like, big camps that would hire scientists, and that, you know, they would figure out ways around.

• 2:58:23Speaker 02

  Dude, that is a, a growing profession.

• 2:58:26Joe Rogan?

  Is it?

• 2:58:27Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. Yeah, there's like, so many pharmacology nerds who are like, like, I've even been asked to help people in the Olympics before.

• 2:58:34Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 2:58:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:58:36Joe Rogan?

  Wow. Because you're a pharmacological nerd?

• 2:58:38Speaker 02

  Yeah. Exactly.

• 2:58:40Joe Rogan?

  And so, these, these people ask you to cheat for them?

• 2:58:43Speaker 02

  Uh, to help them cheat, yeah. Which is also a criminal offense, my understanding, due to, there's actually a law now, it's like, the Rod Chankov Act or something.

• 2:58:51Joe Rogan?

  Oh, wow.

• 2:58:52Speaker 02

  So if you like, help somebody, you're also... Doing a crime.

• 2:58:56Joe Rogan?

  Ooh, wow.

• 2:58:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:58:59Joe Rogan?

  Oh.

• 2:58:59Speaker 02

  So, you know, obviously not worth doing for me, so I never did it, but.

• 2:59:04Joe Rogan?

  Well, especially something like the Olympics, like there's not, there's no money in it. You're not making any money.

• 2:59:09Speaker 02

  Which is crazy, yeah.

• 2:59:10Joe Rogan?

  Crazy.

• 2:59:11Speaker 02

  It's like pure pride and for winning a medal.

• 2:59:14Joe Rogan?

  It's pure exploitation, that's what it is. Cause it's not like there's no money. Like, why are you making all the money? Well, these people are noble, they don't want to get paid. Like, no, you're just not paying them. They don't even know how much money there was. Because in 1936, there was no money. Alright, there was no sponsors, there's no nothing.

• 2:59:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, I remember.

• 2:59:30Joe Rogan?

  There was no TV.

• 2:59:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, let's see.

• 2:59:32Joe Rogan?

  Okay, the bill makes it unlawful to knowingly influence or attempt to conspire to influence a major international sports competition by use of prohibited substance or prohibited method. A violator is subject to criminal penalties, a fine, prison term of up to 10 years, or both, and mandatory restitution. Huh.

• 2:59:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:59:50Joe Rogan?

  Interesting.

• 2:59:51Speaker 02

  So, yeah, there's definitely.

• 2:59:54Speaker 02

  And when you hear about stuff like this too, it's like, there's always the thought in the back of your mind as a competitor, what are people doing that I'm not? And curiosity strikes.

• 3:00:04Joe Rogan?

  What do you think is the answer? What's like, like the non-ideological, when you look at it objectively, so you know what? What we should be doing is doing everything that works. Or what we should be doing is have the most insane testing that everybody has to be 100% natural, no ifs, ands, or buts, and there's no cheating.

• 3:00:22Speaker 02

  That's really hard because I too have the same questions you had of the enhanced games where it's like, oh, we're gonna have, you know, medical assessments that ensure safety and blah, blah, blah, but it's like, if you're going full board, it's impossible to be healthy.

• 3:00:38Joe Rogan?

  And safe.

• 3:00:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:00:39Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 3:00:39Speaker 02

  So like, as much as you could argue, it's probably better to not be using Frankenstein designer drugs or doing weird methods to get around cheating. The alternative is not necessarily like far superior in terms of health. Cause if I'm allowed to use a gram of test, you know, like I'm not going to stop at 200 mig's, you know? Like I'm gonna go full, full fucking sauce to the tits, so.

• 3:01:02Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, if you can get a physiological benefit of being on trend and just fucking completely roided out of your mind.

• 3:01:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, become like a fucking dopaminergic psycho and just like, you know, you will absolutely take that risk regardless of what it does to you.

• 3:01:17Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, especially if you're trying to win, right? If people are willing to cheat when it's really dangerous, you could lose the medal and you can get outed and publicly shamed like Ben Johnson. Or you don't have to worry about that because they're allowing you to, but they would like you to take like a sustainable dope. And you're like, fuck you with your sustainable, I'm trying to be number one bitch.

• 3:01:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:01:37Joe Rogan?

  Give me it all.

• 3:01:38Speaker 02

  I, I love the idea of the enhanced games, by the way, but it's like, at, at least my concern would be what happens when you put up no guardrails? And then alternatively, if there are guardrails, now it's set up for corruption at the medical provider level who's assessing what you're healthy enough to do. And like, you know, are you going in to get your blood drawn at the trough point after injections where things look like they're half out of your system versus before? Like it's almost like a new level of doping that would be introduced.

• 3:02:08Joe Rogan?

  Right, right, right.

• 3:02:09Speaker 02

  So, and I'm sure they're very well spoken, eloquent guys who are on top of that stuff and I'm sure have answers to that. Or, you know, have some idea of what they're gonna do, but like those would be my questions as to, and, and I'm not saying it needs to be safe.

• 3:02:26Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 3:02:26Speaker 02

  You know, it, it might just come down to accepting that this is the fucking chemical warfare games.

• 3:02:31Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 3:02:32Speaker 02

  Yeah. Which there's nothing wrong with that. If you're gonna expose yourself to that risk, people do that in bodybuilding all the time. That's like literally what bodybuilding is.

• 3:02:39Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 3:02:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:02:40Joe Rogan?

  That's what's crazy, right? Bodybuilding is a huge sport, is not possible without illegal drugs.

• 3:02:45Speaker 02

  And there's no Rodchenko act for bodybuilding either. So there's like literal, the, the guru stuff is crazy in bodybuilding.

• 3:02:52Joe Rogan?

  Well, how do they get away with it since it's completely illegal?

• 3:02:56Speaker 02

  Uh, well.

• 3:02:57Joe Rogan?

  I mean, like obviously you're going to jail. If I'm, if I'm a, if I'm a guy who's arresting people who are on steroids, I go to Mr. Olympia. I'm like, you're all in jail.

• 3:03:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:03:05Joe Rogan?

  Right?

• 3:03:06Speaker 02

  You'd think if you wanted to just like hit your quota for the year, you just show up to the Olympia expo and just be like, all of you.

• 3:03:11Joe Rogan?

  Everybody goes to jail.

• 3:03:12Speaker 02

  Fucking car.

• 3:03:13Joe Rogan?

  Get in the paddy wagon.

• 3:03:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:03:15Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 3:03:15Speaker 02

  I, I don't know, man. That's a.

• 3:03:17Joe Rogan?

  How'd you get it?

• 3:03:18Speaker 02

  When it comes to possession in the States and like how scrutiny they are on anabolic, I think it's mostly if you're importing mass amounts, they will flag you because you're likely a distributor at that point.

• 3:03:29Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 3:03:30Speaker 02

  So if it's like personal amounts, typically you would buy it domestically to not like red flag yourself because I think in in the mail, you can't even have your mail get checked if it's domestic. So if you are buying from, you know, the other side of the country, no one would know that you were sent anything. It's only if you're buying like growth hormone from China or something.

• 3:03:52Joe Rogan?

  Oh, and then you get flagged.

• 3:03:54Speaker 02

  And you have enough kits that happen to get flagged in customs and they keep a note on your record of this guy might be doing something.

• 3:04:01Joe Rogan?

  So he might be a steroid dealer.

• 3:04:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:04:03Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 3:04:03Speaker 02

  And then they'll have sting operations and try and figure out who's actually distributing because they have resource allocation bandwidth problems too. So they have to go after the big fish.

• 3:04:12Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 3:04:12Speaker 02

  So.

• 3:04:13Joe Rogan?

  Do guys go to Mexico and bring them across the border?

• 3:04:15Speaker 02

  Not anymore.

• 3:04:16Joe Rogan?

  Now they used to?

• 3:04:17Speaker 02

  Nah. Oh, yeah. Back in the day, yeah. People like smuggle it up their ass to get it here.

• 3:04:21Joe Rogan?

  Jesus Christ. Imagine taking trend that was in a guy's asshole.

• 3:04:25Speaker 02

  Yeah. Dan Bilzerian used to, he talked about how when he was in, uh, uh, Bud's, he would like go with his buddies to get gear from Mexico and then they'd smuggle it up their asses back into the US.

• 3:04:38Joe Rogan?

  Christ. Where's the bottle broke?

• 3:04:41Speaker 02

  Fucking.

• 3:04:42Joe Rogan?

  Yikes.

• 3:04:43Speaker 02

  Butthole glass cuts, buddy.

• 3:04:44Joe Rogan?

  I watched that in a video. It's called one guy, one cup.

• 3:04:47Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 3:04:48Joe Rogan?

  Ever seen that one?

• 3:04:49Speaker 02

  No.

• 3:04:49Joe Rogan?

  That was back in the lively days.

• 3:04:50Speaker 02

  I saw the OG variants of that and never would I, I can't watch another one of those.

• 3:04:55Joe Rogan?

  One guy, one cup is way more horrifying. This guy sticks a mason jar up his asshole and it breaks. I think it's a mason jar, some kind of a jar up his asshole and it breaks and it's just chunks of broken glass and blood fall onto the ground as he squat. It's horrible. But I watched it multiple times.

• 3:05:13Joe Rogan?

  There's a lot of crazy people in this world.

• 3:05:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:05:15Joe Rogan?

  Do you think that I, I, I'm of the opinion, no, let me just say what I think. I think that. Most substances should be legal. And I think people should be able to figure out what's good and what's bad. There's a lot of things that are legal, like Adderall's legal. I don't take Adderall. You know, I'm ninety-nine percent sure I have ADHD. I don't even know what it is. I don't even know if it's real. I think it's probably a superpower. But if I went to a doctor and I was complaining about I can't focus on any one thing, I'm all over the place. They'd probably give me some. And that would have legal stimulants. I don't think, it's probably think it's not good for you, so I don't take it. But I could, right? Why is that legal and cocaine's not? Like, why is this legal and that's not? Why is whiskey legal and marijuana's not? This doesn't make any sense to me.

• 3:06:00Joe Rogan?

  Why is Xanax legal, psilocybin's not? Like, what are we doing? Who gets to decide?

• 3:06:04Speaker 02

  Well, you could argue that, well, that's the reason why clinical trials exist, which assess, you know, safety profiles of these drugs and they wouldn't make it through otherwise, but like, obviously, we've seen that that's not. Once you get financial interest involved, it's kind of hard to overlook that a lot of shit makes it through that probably shouldn't have and stuff that maybe should have made it through, didn't make it through. So, you know, like, I am of the opinion that you should be able to take what you want and be educated about it hopefully first. It's tough though, because it's like if you have a guy who's, like, I don't know, manic, and he has access to like meth and like pharma-grade meth at that or something.

• 3:06:42Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 3:06:42Speaker 02

  Which it actually exists too.

• 3:06:44Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 3:06:45Speaker 02

  And you end up with like a Hitler or something. Yeah.

• 3:06:48Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. The, the trend thing, is that the worst one psychologically?

• 3:06:53Speaker 02

  From anabolic steroids, I would say probably that and then maybe secondary. You know, some people could argue Halo Testin is a drug that supposedly Mike Tyson was using when he bit the Vander Holyfield ear off. Yeah, and it makes you like fucking short-term acutely extremely angry.

• 3:07:12Joe Rogan?

  Well, how did you hear that he was using that?

• 3:07:14Speaker 02

  I don't remember exactly. I think it was like, uh, he didn't test positive for it. I think it was just like highly rum, like a very prevalent rumor, but I forget.

• 3:07:22Joe Rogan?

  They probably didn't test for it though either, right?

• 3:07:24Speaker 02

  No, it was back then. It was really easy to get around like oral steroid detections back then as well, if they were even testing for it. Um, but yeah.

• 3:07:32Joe Rogan?

  I don't even know if they were testing back then.

• 3:07:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, the trend is, uh, the worst offender for your psychological state, not just because the drug is.

• 3:07:42Speaker 02

  Bad, but it also like ruins your sleep. So you get like tren cough I mentioned, but tren sweats is another one. Where it almost induces like a menopause like hot flash. Uh sweating in your sleep and you wake up just fucking drenched. And it like really fucks up your sleep and it makes you hyper paranoid. As well, which is no good cuz even though you're this jacked. Sometimes confident guy, other times you're like, you're unreasonably insecure and you like. A very common outcome is for guys to think their girlfriends are cheating on them. Just out of nowhere by being on tren. And yeah, and they end up becoming, uh, you know, oddly behaving.

• 3:08:24Speaker 02

  Sexual deviancy is also a very, uh, common.

• 3:08:28Joe Rogan?

  I've heard of that.

• 3:08:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, on tren. And it's thought to be the progestogenic activity cuz it's derived from nandrolone, which is. A progesterone receptor agonist as well and progesterone is. Thought to be very implicated in gay sexual tendencies as you grow up. If you had a heightened exposure to progesterone in utero. And highly dopaminergic drug as well, which in excess can cause like a really weird sexual deviancy as well. Um, and yeah, it's like really fucking potent and good at what it does. It builds lean mass and it's like a really dry compound. Doesn't make you watery. Also has a unique anti catabolic effect. So you don't, in a deficit, you keep muscle. And sometimes even grow while you're cutting.

• 3:09:14Speaker 02

  And it's, yeah, so it's not like steroids don't all do that to some degree more or less, but this drug is like uniquely potent. In its anti catabolic action to where you could be like. Extremely nutrient deprived and still hold on to a lot of your muscle. And because it's so good at making you extremely strong too, without an excess of body weight, it's like highly sought after in many sports. Because you don't have to worry about jumping up in weight class while you're getting the strength increase. That is like humongous.

• 3:09:46Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 3:09:46Speaker 02

  Yeah. So it was one of the drugs that was used in the Duchess cocktail, which is. What Rod Chankov would have at his athletes swish around in their mouth.

• 3:09:54Joe Rogan?

  Oh, really?

• 3:09:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was absorbed buccaly. So it was like, it was almost like the equivalent of IV-ing the drug right into your bloodstream. You would swish it around your mouth in this alcohol and it would absorb buccaly into the bloodstream immediately. So you wouldn't have to actually have it go into your stomach and then get processed through a first pass metabolism. So you could get in and out of your system way faster.

• 3:10:18Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 3:10:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:10:19Joe Rogan?

  Wow. So why is that one good for fighters?

• 3:10:23Speaker 02

  Ah.

• 3:10:24Joe Rogan?

  I would think that like getting super emotional though.

• 3:10:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, you could argue that the emotional instability is not good.

• 3:10:30Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 3:10:30Speaker 02

  But.

• 3:10:31Joe Rogan?

  Paranoia, that'd be terrible.

• 3:10:33Speaker 02

  Aggressive. Um, the psychoactive effects in the gym can be very helpful for training and stress resilience. And some people, it's not everyone who becomes paranoid on it. It's highly individual dependent. Some people, you will often hear people say, oh, people overblow the side effects of training. It's not that bad. And then other people who will say it ruined their life. So it's highly individual dependent like any drug. But it's very good at making you extremely fucking strong without blowing you up with water retention and staving off loss of tissue while weight cutting as well.

• 3:11:08Joe Rogan?

  There's another factor that comes with steroid users and that's the addiction to the feeling of being on steroids.

• 3:11:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:11:15Joe Rogan?

  Cause once they get off steroids and they don't feel like Superman anymore, they get real weirded out.

• 3:11:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:11:20Joe Rogan?

  And they want to get back on again. I've seen that.

• 3:11:22Speaker 02

  Oh yeah, dude. It's uh, the thing that will often kill people is the desire to maintain these huge sizes in perpetuity too. Cause it's like a, ultimately steroid use often stems from like body image insecurity. So if you achieve, you know, the outcome you sought with this thing, to think that you're gonna be, you know, a confident person after you've lost the 30, 40 pounds of lean that you gained.

• 3:11:48Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 3:11:49Speaker 02

  Like you were already probably somewhat mentally not perfect to begin with.

• 3:11:54Joe Rogan?

  Except Dorian Yates.

• 3:11:56Speaker 02

  Oh yeah, but he.

• 3:11:56Joe Rogan?

  That guy's, he's a unique cat. Cause he's lost all the way. He looks like a normal athlete now.

• 3:12:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:12:02Joe Rogan?

  He's healthy.

• 3:12:03Speaker 02

  Yeah. He, he had me on his podcast, uh, this year and he's said, uh, anytime he's done seminars and people ask if he misses being a mass monster, he says they're more upset about it than I am.

• 3:12:15Speaker 02

  He has a unique perspective on it, which is really cool to see.

• 3:12:19Joe Rogan?

  He's very intelligent.

• 3:12:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:12:20Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, very calm and you know, just the way he approaches things, but god damn dude, when that guy was getting after it, he was, he was one of the original freaks. Where one of the first guys, we were just like, what, like that's where they're pushing it to now?

• 3:12:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, he left humanity behind.

• 3:12:35Joe Rogan?

  Dude, he was so big, he was ridiculous. If you think about what he looked like versus what Arnold looked like just a couple of decades earlier.

• 3:12:43Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 3:12:44Joe Rogan?

  Night and day.

• 3:12:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, you could argue he was like the catalyst almost to a heightened standard of amount of muscle you need to be competitive.

• 3:12:53Joe Rogan?

  I mean, he was so big, he blew his bicep out and competed and won with a torn bicep.

• 3:12:57Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

• 3:12:59Joe Rogan?

  With like a hole in his arm.

• 3:13:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's fucked up. When you get that big and you have to like worry about exploding your fucking muscle every workout because you're so strong? And that's what you need to lift to get the stimulus? Like that's crazy stuff.

• 3:13:12Joe Rogan?

  Well, Ronnie Coleman's the crazy example of the price you pay for that. Like that guy's all fucked up now.

• 3:13:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. It makes you wonder if he would have been the bodybuilder he was if he just trained higher volume and like

• 3:13:25Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 3:13:26Speaker 02

  higher reps, less weight.

• 3:13:27Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 3:13:28Speaker 02

  Cause literature now suggests that you don't need to necessarily train like that.

• 3:13:32Joe Rogan?

  Look at the difference between the two of them.

• 3:13:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:13:34Joe Rogan?

  Arnold on the left and Dorian on the right. Dorian's twice his size.

• 3:13:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:13:38Joe Rogan?

  His fucking back dude, that's crazy. That back isn't, not that Arnold isn't insane. He was fucked pretty insane. I actually think Arnold looks better.

• 3:13:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, he's more aesthetic for sure.

• 3:13:49Joe Rogan?

  Oh, look at his back. Look at Dorian's back and look at Ronnie Coleman's back.

• 3:13:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:13:54Joe Rogan?

  Jesus, guys were huge. Ronnie Coleman was crazy, but Dorian was like weirdly thick. Like look how thick his fucking muscles are, man. It's just not, first of all, judging guys that are that big, good luck. I don't get it. They all look awesome. They all look crazy.

• 3:14:10Speaker 02

  Dude, it's even harder judging a bikini show. So there's different classes at the Olympia, including women's bikini? And there's like a few poses. They'll pu- pull up a comparison of the women's Olympia for bikini.

• 3:14:23Joe Rogan?

  What is a bikini versus regular Olympia?

• 3:14:26Speaker 02

  Well, it's just like the best bikini competitors against each other for the Olympia crown of bikini category.

• 3:14:34Joe Rogan?

  What's the bikini category versus the regular Miss Olympia category?

• 3:14:37Speaker 02

  Miss Olympia is like bodybuilding.

• 3:14:39Joe Rogan?

  Oh, this isn't bodybuilding?

• 3:14:41Speaker 02

  Well, it's like a form of bodybuilding, but it's not the actual category.

• 3:14:44Joe Rogan?

  Right, this is women who still look feminine.

• 3:14:47Speaker 02

  So like, right, put it this way, with men, there's different categories. There's open men's bodybuilding, classic physique, and men's physique. And each of them has like an incremental noticeable difference in the amount of muscle you need to be competitive. And in women, similar differences exist in categories where they have women's bikini, wellness, something else, and then bodybuilding is the one where you can, you pretty much need to be on like male level steroids to be competitive.

• 3:15:15Joe Rogan?

  And this is a reality of female bodybuilding, that a lot of female bodybuilders, look, I know female jujitsu competitors that take steroids. Which is, it's crazy, there's not even any money in that. You're juicing yourself up, but if you want to get that lean and maintain that much muscle as a woman, like what do they take?

• 3:15:33Speaker 02

  Well, for bikini, you might be able to do it naturally, all but, most of them are probably still taking a little bit something, but it's not like masculinizing. There's a lot of things they can take that are natural, or over the counter, or like super microdosed amounts of anabolic that don't cause masculinization. But above that, the thresholds for categories above that are like, if you go to women's bodybuilding, like it looks like you remember it, where it's, you know, dudes with wigs on basically almost. Yeah.

• 3:16:03Joe Rogan?

  I mean, they've, they're trans men, basically.

• 3:16:04Speaker 02

  Basically, yeah, like, like based on their hormone profile, they are more male than you and I probably.

• 3:16:11Joe Rogan?

  Whoa, god, look at that lady, that's crazy. Is she Miss Olympia? She number one?

• 3:16:18Speaker 02

  That's women's physique too, that's not women's bodybuilding.

• 3:16:21Joe Rogan?

  What?

• 3:16:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, so this is like a different category that's less muscle than bodybuilding.

• 3:16:29Joe Rogan?

  So what's women's bodybuilding? That lady?

• 3:16:32Speaker 02

  Probably.

• 3:16:34Joe Rogan?

  Who's Miss Olympia?

• 3:16:35Speaker 02

  Uh, do they still have women's bodybuilding? I think they do.

• 3:16:43Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 3:16:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, that might be it.

• 3:16:44Joe Rogan?

  Look at that lady down the lower left angle. Jeez, those ladies are huge. Oh my goodness, that's gotta be it. Those are dudes. That's a dude's body. Like, size-wise. Not saying you're a dude, ladies. Don't hurt me.

• 3:16:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, by the way, to, you know, more power to anybody who wants to do whatever they want. It's just like, the reality of the exposure to these hormones is, they are masculinizing and you can blame Biden for that.

• 3:17:08Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 3:17:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, cuz he stopped the development of them. And by now, we probably have non-masculinizing drugs that work as well as the ones that make you a dude.

• 3:17:16Joe Rogan?

  Oh my god. Have you ever thought about bailing out of Canada?

• 3:17:20Speaker 02

  Dude, I would love to. I've considered it, but there's weird stuff around like unrealized capital gains and exit taxes and shit that basically traps you there.

• 3:17:31Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 3:17:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, so like, I could physically be present in the States and live here maybe for six months of a year, but to like, get out of the system fully, you gotta like, pay the piper on every company you've ever built, even if you don't have the money from it cuz you never sold it. There's gains that were made in Canada, the value of it that you have to pay on. It's like, how do you pay for it? I don't have any fucking cash cuz I didn't sell the company.

• 3:17:55Joe Rogan?

  So they make it very difficult to leave the country.

• 3:17:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. And maybe that changes with Pierre, I don't know, but like, one of the main problems with the economy is there's no incentive for business owners that are doing well to stay. Like, everything is structured around, how do I get around this fucking system? Not, how do I stay here?

• 3:18:13Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 3:18:14Speaker 02

  So, like, I know personally, every friend I have, uh, successful, has either already left or has tried to find a way to leave. Actually, I know one person who hasn't, but he's like, really entrenched in the system and, like, it would be impossible to unwind at this point. So I don't know how much of it is, he actually wants to be there, or like, it's a beautiful place to live in British Columbia, for example, but like, yeah, it's fucking, cost of living is obscene. And the tax-

• 3:18:45Joe Rogan?

  I saw that there's some kids were doing a TikTok with food at a Canadian supermarket, like a bunch of chicken wings and how much it was.

• 3:18:51Speaker 02

  Oh, the dollar too is horrible. It's like, a dollar, every dollar in US currency equates to 140 Canadian.

• 3:18:59Joe Rogan?

  Whoa.

• 3:19:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, so your dollar goes super far in Canada. And then

• 3:19:04Joe Rogan?

  Forty, Jesus.

• 3:19:05Speaker 02

  And then to buy, like, I don't know, a shitty, a shitty shack, fucking house that's not even a house in Vancouver, it's like millions of dollars. Yeah.

• 3:19:17Joe Rogan?

  Nuts.

• 3:19:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. I, I think the cost of living is only exceeded maybe in real estate by like, New York, maybe.

• 3:19:29Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 3:19:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's like one of the worst offenders on the planet for cost of a home. So basically, back in the day, our parents, one of the main ways to become financially stable was get in early on a property and build equity in it and eventually you'd have a, you know, something that accrued in so much value from since you got it that, like, that's your main nest egg or whatever.

• 3:19:53Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 3:19:54Speaker 02

  Nowadays, it's, it's not even possible to afford the lowest threshold of a mortgage on like, a place that's not even nice. So you have like family staying in like five hundred square foot apartments with big families because they can't afford anything.

• 3:20:09Joe Rogan?

  It says impossibly unaffordable. Housing report ranks Vancouver third most expensive in the world.

• 3:20:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:20:16Speaker 03

  Hong Kong and Sydney are the only two.

• 3:20:18Joe Rogan?

  Wow, Sydney, that's interesting. Huh, I would have never suspected Sydney, Australia to be that expensive. That's nuts.

• 3:20:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:20:26Joe Rogan?

  Well, listen, brother, anything else you want to talk about before we bail out of here? I think it was a good one.

• 3:20:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was, yeah.

• 3:20:31Joe Rogan?

  Lot of fun.

• 3:20:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, thanks for having me, man. Appreciate you.

• 3:20:34Joe Rogan?

  What's that, Jamie?

• 3:20:34Speaker 03

  The Miss Olympia Wellness we missed out on.

• 3:20:37Joe Rogan?

  What's that?

• 3:20:38Speaker 03

  A focus on the lower body.

• 3:20:40Joe Rogan?

  What? Oh, butts?

• 3:20:41Speaker 03

  Yeah, top half doesn't matter.

• 3:20:42Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, so I was gonna say.

• 3:20:43Joe Rogan?

  Top half doesn't matter, for real?

• 3:20:44Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 3:20:45Joe Rogan?

  Shut the fuck up. Why are they standing face forward then?

• 3:20:48Speaker 03

  The glutes and hips.

• 3:20:48Joe Rogan?

  Let's see them glutes.

• 3:20:50Speaker 02

  It definitely matters, but not as much as.

• 3:20:53Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's not focus, I should say.

• 3:20:54Speaker 02

  Yeah. So, anyway, watching the posing, you, you were saying it's hard to judge men's bodybuilding with women. It's, at least with the bikini category especially, their hair is really long and they have extensions too to make it look even longer. So when they turn around, basically the only thing you can judge is like ass down essentially because their whole back is covered by hair.

• 3:21:15Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that's weird.

• 3:21:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, so it's like a pageant for your butt.

• 3:21:21Joe Rogan?

  I'm all in.

• 3:21:22Speaker 02

  No, I could, by the way, like, any bikini competitor is probably fucking furious with that statement.

• 3:21:27Joe Rogan?

  Of course.

• 3:21:27Speaker 02

  There's absolutely...

• 3:21:28Joe Rogan?

  Well, they're on trend. They're gonna get angry.

• 3:21:30Speaker 02

  Probably not, but like, they're judged on other things, but that's the main factor, basically.

• 3:21:36Joe Rogan?

  Got it, okay. Alright, man, well, been a lot of fun. More Plates More Dates on YouTube. What is your website?

• 3:21:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, MorePlatesMoreDates.com.

• 3:21:45Joe Rogan?

  Anything else?

• 3:21:46Speaker 02

  No, that's it.

• 3:21:47Joe Rogan?

  Alright, my pleasure, brother. Always good to see you.

• 3:21:49Speaker 02

  Alright, bye, everybody.

• 3:22:04Speaker 06

  Welcome to the 50th Hunger Games.

• 3:22:06Joe Rogan?

  Witness the beginning of the revolution.

• 3:22:08Speaker 06

  Hey Mitch, you've been trying to take down these games from the start.

• 3:22:11Joe Rogan?

  Filmed for IMAX.

• 3:22:13Speaker 06

  Make them remember you.

• 3:22:15Joe Rogan?

  The Hunger Games: Sunrise on the Reaping, November 20th, rated PG-13. Now streaming on Paramount+. I'm Dexter Morgan. I've been killing killers for half my life. It gets to you. You're having a midlife crisis. I'm not ready for this. He's back. I'm older. I'm wiser.

• 3:22:35Joe Rogan?

  And sharper than ever. Things are gonna get messy. But if I can't believe in myself, I can't believe in anything. Dexter Resurrection. New season now streaming on the Paramount+ Premium Plan.