#2476 - Shanna H. Swan

Shanna H. Swan, PhD, is an environmental epidemiologist and author of “Count Down.” She is the director of The Action Science Initiative, a program within the Million Marker Institute, and is featured in the documentary “The Plastic Detox,” now streaming on Netflix.www.netflix.com/title/82074244www.simonandschuster.com/books/Count-Down/Shanna-H-Swan/9781982113674www.mmresearch.orgwww.shannaswan.com Perplexity: Download the app or ask Perplexity anything at https://pplx.ai/rogan. Get a free welcome kit with your first subscription of AG1 at https://drinkag1.com/joerogan Intuit TurboTax: Learn more at https://turbotax.intuit.com/?cid=bn_wk_12 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  The Joe Rogan Experience.

• 0:05Speaker 01

  Show you my day, Joe Rogan Podcast, my night, all day.

• 0:12Joe Rogan?

  Great to see you again.

• 0:13Speaker 03

  Great to see you, Joe. Happy to be here.

• 0:16Joe Rogan?

  Happy to have you here. So, you've got a documentary about the, essentially about the same subject that you talked about last time you were here, the impact of microplastics and all these various endocrine-disrupting chemicals that we're dealing with.

• 0:31Speaker 03

  Right.

• 0:32Joe Rogan?

  Right?

• 0:33Speaker 03

  Right.

• 0:34Joe Rogan?

  Just tell me about it.

• 0:35Speaker 03

  Well, it started as a movie on plastic. And when I met Louis, and he filmed me in New York about five years ago also, it wasn't the small study that we have today. But let me backtrack, because I want to tell you something that I never told you, but was so important to me. So, you remember when I was here, you said, "Are you saying that toxins in the environment are threatening the survival of the human race?"

• 1:14Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:15Speaker 03

  And I said, "That's my story, and I'm sticking to it."

• 1:19Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 1:20Speaker 03

  Yes? And then you said something which changed my life. You said, "Why don't people know about this?" Remember that?

• 1:32Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 1:33Speaker 03

  I went home, and I thought a lot about that question. And that was what led me to create the program that I have now, Action Science Initiative, which is doing short, impactful, relatively cheap interventions to alert people to the problem and communicating this in a way that I'm hoping will reach more people than academia where I was speaking before. Because before I talked to you... I talked to my peers in, you know, academia and the ivory tower, you know,

• 2:14Speaker 03

  at the meetings where they all went, they read the papers that we all read. But the general public didn't get this. So you really were, I have to tell you, thank you. And you were actually very influential in my life.

• 2:28Joe Rogan?

  Well, I'm very happy to help. When I first heard about your book and I started going over the details of it in the subject matter, I was shocked. I couldn't imagine that something like this could not just have happened, but there's no large-scale effort to reverse course, or to change course, or to do something about it, or at least to make people aware of the impact that plastics are having on us. Let me tell you a story about a friend of mine. There's a guy named Philip Franklin Lee, who is a Michelin star chef that lives in Austin. And he has this amazing sushi restaurant, Sushi by Scratch, and great chef.

• 3:10Joe Rogan?

  Anyway, he was experiencing fatigue, like always tired, got his hormones tested, extremely low testosterone, but then got his microplastics tested, and they were off the charts. Did a series of interventions to try to clean his body out from that, stopped drinking anything out of plastic, stopped using plastic. Just by whatever he did, I'm not sure if he did the plasma pharesis thing that I just did recently, his testosterone went up to 1,200. With no testosterone replacement, no nothing, just eliminating microplastics from his life

• 3:54Joe Rogan?

  over a period of time raises testosterone.

• 3:57Speaker 03

  So, that's fantastic, and it's what we are seeing in the film and so on. I want to just make a small point, which is, microplastics... And plastics and plasticizers are not identical, right? Okay. Right? So, microplastics are relatively newcomer to the scene because we've had plastics since 1950, right? Microplastics have been there but not recognized until relatively recently. And actually, measuring them in our bodies is much harder than measuring the plasticizers, which are the chemicals that are put in plastic to give them the various properties that they have. Thalates.

• 4:40Speaker 03

  Thalates is one, bisphenol A is another, and so on. So there are other, you know, and by the way,

• 4:51Speaker 03

  well, we'll come back to that later. So, yes, we can measure those, but measuring microplastics, in particularly if we're going to go into your brain or into your testicles, you know, into a woman's placenta, obviously, that's much more difficult. So, they're not the same, but the microplastics, what they are is the actual pieces of plastic that carry the plasticizers along with them. So they kind of piggyback on. So they do double damage because they carry the chemical harms and they also physically enter the cells, right? So, do you remember, I'm sure as best as you know about, you know,

• 5:34Speaker 03

  and silicosis and these were other examples of particles that went into the body and conveyed both chemical harm and physical harm, like inflammation and so on and so forth. So, they're all bad, but they're not identical. And what we studied in the Plastic Detox, which is the film, that was, we did not study any microplastics. We studied the plasticizers. So, you probably remember, I think I told you last time, well, why should you remember anyway? They're water soluble. Yeah, I do remember. And so they, you remember that? You know, so they go into your urine and then they're pretty easy to measure.

• 6:18Speaker 03

  So, I'm going to give this to you.

• 6:22Speaker 03

  This is a kit. Open her up, I'll tell you what it is. Okay.

• 6:27Joe Rogan?

  Learn what's inside.

• 6:31Joe Rogan?

  It looks like you pee in that?

• 6:33Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 6:34Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 6:35Speaker 03

  That's right. Keep going.

• 6:37Joe Rogan?

  And there's more stuff in there?

• 6:38Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 6:38Joe Rogan?

  Okay. Um, something to send it back.

• 6:43Speaker 03

  Right.

• 6:43Joe Rogan?

  And then this looks like biohazard bag.

• 6:47Speaker 03

  To put your pee in.

• 6:47Joe Rogan?

  So my pee doesn't kill anybody.

• 6:52Joe Rogan?

  And this is, uh, uh, it's got a QR code on it. Uh, say hello to a healthier you.

• 6:59Speaker 03

  So those are ways to find out ways to lower your exposure.

• 7:02Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 7:03Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 7:04Joe Rogan?

  I know, um, a lot of people get these, uh, harmful chemicals from drinking coffee, hot liquids out of paper cups.

• 7:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, from the paper cups that are lined with, for example, bisphenols. But the coffee itself is made in a, most coffee makers contain a lot of plastic also. So it comes in both the cups and in the, the device that's making the coffee.

• 7:29Joe Rogan?

  Metal and just make a French press. I do that at home too. I got rid of my plastic coffee machine.

• 7:34Speaker 03

  Me too, me too.

• 7:35Joe Rogan?

  I was thinking about it. It was like, why am I pouring hot water into this plastic thing?

• 7:39Speaker 03

  Right.

• 7:39Joe Rogan?

  That can't be good. Yeah, it doesn't taste as good.

• 7:42Speaker 03

  You're learning, you're learning.

• 7:43Joe Rogan?

  French press tastes better anyway. This episode is brought to you by The Mosquito Bowl. Here's a story that's pretty incredible. After Pearl Harbor, four of the best college football players in America walk away from promising NFL careers to enlist in the Marines and fight in World War II. And the craziest part, it's a true story. These guys had their whole lives ahead of them, but traded the glory of the gridiron for the brutal reality of combat, where the stakes were life and death. Directed by Peter Berg, the guy behind Friday Night Lights, and starring Nicholas Galitzine, Bill Skarsgård, Ray Nicholson, and Tom Francis. The Mosquito Bowl, now playing in theaters. This episode is brought to you by The Farmer's Dog.

• 8:28Joe Rogan?

  Here's a fun fact. Research shows that dogs who maintain a healthy weight can live up to two and a half years longer on average than dogs who are overweight. Isn't that wild and also kind of obvious at the same time? So why is feeding vague scoops of ultra-processed kibble still the status quo for most dog owners? Healthy alternatives exist, and trust me, I know. I buy one, The Farmer's Dog. I use it for both my dogs. They love it. They eat it up quick. It smells good to them. It smells good to me. It's human-grade food. The Farmer's Dog makes fresh food for dogs, and my dogs love it. Their recipes are made with real meat and fresh vegetables that are gently cooked to retain vital nutrients.

• 9:12Joe Rogan?

  They also portion out the meals to your dog's nutritional needs, which helps avoid overfeeding and makes weight management easier. And isn't getting more time with our four-legged best friends something every dog owner wants? The answer to that is yes, obviously. So try The Farmer's Dog today and get 50% off your first box of fresh, healthy food. Plus, get free shipping. Just go to thefarmersdog.com/rogan. This offer is for new customers only. This episode is brought to you by ZipRecruiter. Hook up a better speaker to your TV and your home theater experience is immediately 10 times better. Or add a little extra treat to your dog's food. They get so happy at dinnertime.

• 9:57Joe Rogan?

  Sometimes it's worth it to go that extra step to find people who will do that for your business. Check out ZipRecruiter. Try it for free at ziprecruiter.com/rogan. ZipRecruiter has what you need to find great candidates fast, like powerful matching technology to help sort through thousands of resumes and a feature that puts people who are the most interested and most qualified first. Try ZipRecruiter and meet great candidates who'll go the extra step for your job. Four out of five employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate within the first day. Try it for free today at ziprecruiter.com/rogan.

• 10:42Joe Rogan?

  That's ziprecruiter.com/rogan. ZipRecruiter, meet your match on ZipRecruiter.

• 10:49Speaker 03

  So here's my suggestion. If you're willing to do this.

• 10:53Joe Rogan?

  I am willing to do this.

• 10:54Speaker 03

  You are? Good, cool. So. Not hard.

• 10:57Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 10:57Speaker 03

  Pee in the cup, send it in.

• 10:59Joe Rogan?

  Got it.

• 11:00Speaker 03

  Then my colleague Jenna Wa and her team will analyze it for not everything in the world, but the bisphenols, the phthalates, and the parabens.

• 11:11Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 11:12Speaker 03

  That's what they're, they're going to be adding pesticides soon, and that would be great to have that as well.

• 11:16Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 11:18Speaker 03

  Then, if you want to go to phase two, I can, I have some things here that you could swap in your kitchen, and you could go to that QR code and find out other things that you could reduce. And then, if you wanted to, we could send you another kit, and you could see if your levels changed.

• 11:40Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 11:40Speaker 03

  You want to do that?

• 11:41Joe Rogan?

  I would love to do that.

• 11:42Speaker 03

  Yay!

• 11:43Joe Rogan?

  What is phase two?

• 11:45Speaker 03

  A phase two would mail you back another kit.

• 11:48Joe Rogan?

  Uh huh.

• 11:48Speaker 03

  You take your urine again, and that's it.

• 11:50Joe Rogan?

  And so that's to see if it's changed because of lifestyle changes?

• 11:55Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 11:55Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 11:56Speaker 03

  That's right. So you would be doing what the couples in, part of what the couples in the intervention did. The couples in the intervention also were, were infertile. And so we're not going to touch your fertility question, but they also, the men collected sperm, and you, we can do that if you want, but I don't think you, you know, you may not want to talk about that on your, but that's what we did in the intervention. So we, in the intervention, we found, I'll just, this is what the intervention was.

• 12:29Speaker 03

  There's a company called Fellow, which is grown out of UCSF, and they're very big now. I think they have like 200,000 men in their files who have had their semen tested. Okay? And at the time they're, have their semen tested, they're asked, could we recontact you for research? That's one important question. And they're asked, why did you want your sperm tested?

• 12:59Speaker 03

  And if they say because we're infertile or subfertile, or we're worrying about our fertility, we ask, or they ask, how long has it been that you've been having this problem with fertility? And if it's more than 12 months, then they're technically infertile. Right? So if they said they would agree to be recontacted and they were infertile, they were potentially eligible for this intervention. You with me?

• 13:30Speaker 00

  Got it.

• 13:31Speaker 03

  So actually finding the couples that are in the film was a long process. They had to, of course, agree to be filmed. They had to have what we call, terrible word, idiopathic infertility, no known causes. So they, and they couldn't be obese, they couldn't be smokers, they couldn't have a diagnosis, a medical diagnosis that explains. We don't want it to be unexplained.

• 13:56Speaker 00

  Got it.

• 13:56Speaker 03

  Okay? So sort of we winnowed down to what was six couples. One of them dropped out for personal reasons. So I won't go into that. But that's how we got those couples. They had to be couples, by the way. And they had to be staying together for the next three months and not doing IVF. Okay?

• 14:18Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 14:18Speaker 03

  So that's, that was the setup. And, and then the company called Million Marker that you were going to send your P2, they have an education program. And that's a lot of what they do, the testing and the education. And so all of those couples, you know, they talked to them and said, tell me about what you put on your face this morning. Tell me what you washed your clothes with. Tell me what you clean your counters with, and on and on and on like that. Right? So they took an inventory of what the couples were doing. And then they started this educational program, which they're very good at and have been doing for a while. Once a week, they talk to them. So how's it going? Have you changed this?

• 15:03Speaker 03

  What are you using now? And so on. So it was not just a one-time thing. And if you were doing this, it would be short, you know? Just like use these things maybe. But along with that, we sent them the fellow kits to collect their semen.

• 15:24Speaker 03

  Okay, so we have beginning, middle, and end. It was three months, so beginning, six weeks, 12 weeks. And you know why three months?

• 15:35Joe Rogan?

  Why?

• 15:35Speaker 03

  Takes 70 days to make a sperm. So we wanted to have a turnover within the course of the intervention. So, so they, we sent them a kit and they collected their semen at home, which is nice for guys because you don't have to go into lab and do it there and, you know, it's, it's much better at home, right?

• 15:53Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 15:55Speaker 03

  And they sent it in and they figured out how to get all the parameters right, even though it's mailed. And, um, yeah, so the couples did that. So we had, over time,

• 16:08Speaker 03

  levels in their body of the chemicals, semen quality, what they were doing, what they changed in their life, because we have this record of everything they changed. And then finally, we saw who got pregnant. And I hope your listeners will watch The Plastic Detox. It's a movie that a lot of people love and, and found, you know, really moving. And you should watch it.

• 16:35Joe Rogan?

  Can I ask you about the coffee question? When you go to a place like, let's just say Starbucks, not to single them out, but are they using plastic with their coffee machines? Are their coffee machines made with plastic?

• 16:48Speaker 03

  I, I don't, I don't know about any particular place except my kitchen.

• 16:52Joe Rogan?

  I was just, the question was-

• 16:54Speaker 03

  I suspect that they are using plastic.

• 16:56Joe Rogan?

  Right, so if people stop at a place like that on a regular basis on their way to work in the morning to get coffee, and they use, they bring their own plast- or, excuse me, they, they bring their own stainless steel thermos or mug, that would eliminate some of it, but perhaps-

• 17:12Speaker 03

  One source, yeah.

• 17:13Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but perhaps they're getting it actually from the coffee machine itself.

• 17:19Joe Rogan?

  Because I see when they slide those.

• 17:20Speaker 03

  Yes, yes, yes.

• 17:21Joe Rogan?

  When you see these big industrial machines and they slide those filters in, those filters are plastic.

• 17:26Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, well, they're, they're probably, they probably have bisphenol in them, yeah.

• 17:30Joe Rogan?

  Right, it's a plastic tray. It seems, it seems, I don't know. But then there's a paper filter in the plastic tray and...

• 17:36Speaker 03

  Right.

• 17:38Joe Rogan?

  So you're getting it, no matter what.

• 17:39Speaker 03

  And if they use those pods.

• 17:41Joe Rogan?

  Uh huh.

• 17:41Speaker 03

  You know.

• 17:42Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 17:42Speaker 03

  At home. Bruno, one of our guys in the film, wonderful guy, he, he was a kind of addicted to his coffee machine, his pods.

• 17:54Joe Rogan?

  Right, the pods.

• 17:54Speaker 03

  And we said, Bruno, we want you to stop using those pods. No, I don't want to stop using them. But he did, he did, and they've had two babies. Yeah, now, I'm not, not saying that's the reason, but, you know, it's a contribution, probably.

• 18:10Joe Rogan?

  Well, there is certainly an issue. Like I said with my friend Phillip, that it made a radical difference in his sperm count and his testosterone levels. And so this is probably the case with so many Americans in this country that are dealing with infertility issues. A big part of it is probably these plasticizers, is that how you remember them?

• 18:30Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 18:30Joe Rogan?

  Plasticizers, all these various chemicals that are endocrine disruptors that are ubiquitous in the modern world.

• 18:36Speaker 03

  Yes, unfortunately.

• 18:37Joe Rogan?

  It's crazy.

• 18:38Speaker 03

  And by the way, not, the women, let me say something, we, we didn't talk about the women last time very much, right?

• 18:43Joe Rogan?

  Well, a little bit, we did.

• 18:44Speaker 03

  Little.

• 18:44Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, we, we, I think we did.

• 18:46Speaker 03

  So the women need testosterone too.

• 18:52Speaker 03

  You know, for sexual arousal and libido and so on, and, and muscle, and, and we, in our, one of our study, study for future families, I think, or maybe, yeah, we asked, we got the urine, we saw what they, you know, how much phthalates were in their urine, and then we asked them some questions about their sexual experience. So how satisfied were they with their sexual, sexual life? And frequency?

• 19:27Speaker 03

  And the women who had higher levels of phthalates had less satisfaction and lower frequency. So it's not just the men.

• 19:35Joe Rogan?

  Completely makes sense.

• 19:36Speaker 03

  Everyone needs testosterone.

• 19:39Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. My wife's friend got on testosterone. She's, I guess she's about 50. She got on testosterone because her doctor put her on some low level of cream or something like that. And her, her response was like, "It makes me horny like a bloke." She's English. I thought that was a very funny thing that she said it that way.

• 20:03Speaker 03

  Did she think that was a good thing?

• 20:04Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, she enjoyed it.

• 20:06Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 20:07Joe Rogan?

  Apparently. Allegedly. I didn't speak to her directly. But I think that's what she was saying. Like, whoa. You know, just whoa.

• 20:13Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 20:14Joe Rogan?

  Well, I mean, it's, the thing that came out of your, the episode that we did, that shocked me the most is how little this is discussed in the mainstream. And I had not known until you brought it up, until you became a guest on the show, until I started researching it. I was stunned. I couldn't believe that this was something that was so common and so, so one of the things that comes up all the time is infertility with couples that are trying and they're using IVF and it's more common now than ever before. And there's been a lot of things that people, a lot of factors that people have attributed to that reason. A lot of them being older people that are, you know, they put their careers aside in

• 20:59Joe Rogan?

  their 30s, they decided now it's time to have kids, they're worried that it's too late. But listening to you talk about it, it seems like that's only one part of the issue and not the big part. The big part seems to be that we're being poisoned and we're doing it by virtue of our modern world that we live in where so much of your life relies on plastic.

• 21:23Joe Rogan?

  And it's very difficult for people that are so set in their ways, they have routines, they don't really understand, like, what can I do to eliminate this stuff from my life? Just having the conversation and understanding that these things are having an impact is great, but the steps that people need to take in order to eliminate these things from their life, I think that's what's really important to get out there now.

• 21:46Speaker 03

  I, thank you. You said it really well. Let me just give people a place to go. You go to unplasticyourlife.com, okay? And then there's Action, and then you can go to the various places in your home that you can-

• 22:04Joe Rogan?

  It's just unplasticyourlife, one word. Unplastic.

• 22:06Speaker 03

  Unplasticyourlife.com. Yeah. Let me see if I got that. Yeah, so unplasticyourlife.com, go to Action Hub, and then to Protect Yourself. And that'll give you lots of things to do to lower these exposures.

• 22:22Joe Rogan?

  It's almost time for spring break, so maybe you're headed to the beach, or maybe you're taking the kids on a road trip, or maybe you're just taking some extra time for yourself. No matter what, you deserve a break and a reset, and AG1 can help. AG1 is your daily health drink. Just one scoop combines your multivitamin, pre and probiotics, superfoods, and antioxidants to help support a healthy immune system and digestion. Plus, it travels really well, so you can start working it into your routine even when you don't have a routine. Just slip a few travel packs into your luggage and have a nice flight. I've talked about AG1 for a long time, and it's not just me. I know a lot of people enjoy it.

• 23:03Joe Rogan?

  It's very easy, it's very convenient, and you deserve to take care of your health. Visit drinkag1.com/joeroogan, and for a limited time, get a bottle of Omega 3, Vitamin D3 K2, and an AG1 flavor sampler for free in your welcome kit with your first subscription. That's a $111 value at drinkag1.com/joeroogan. Nonstick cookware, that stuff has-

• 23:32Speaker 03

  That's different.

• 23:33Joe Rogan?

  Is that different?

• 23:34Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 23:35Joe Rogan?

  When you have nonstick cookware, does that have any endocrine-disrupting chemicals as well?

• 23:40Speaker 03

  But different ones.

• 23:41Joe Rogan?

  Different ones? Which ones are those?

• 23:43Speaker 03

  So, those are what's called the PFOS chemicals, and- It's in actually not just cookware. It's anything that puts a barrier between two medium, if you will. Like a rain jacket will put a barrier between the rain and your skin.

• 24:01Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 24:03Speaker 03

  And also stain resistant. Barrier with the stain. And it's very, very prevalent. I mean, it's all, you know, it's in clothing, it's in.

• 24:17Joe Rogan?

  I've read it's in a lot of yoga tights and things along those lines.

• 24:20Speaker 03

  Yes, workout clothes.

• 24:22Joe Rogan?

  That's so crazy. You think you're being healthy.

• 24:24Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 24:24Joe Rogan?

  And you're exposing yourself to endocrine disrupting chemicals.

• 24:27Speaker 03

  And uniforms, there's a book. I, I, I should probably shouldn't recommend another book, but I think it's a good book. I'll just say it's called to die for, D Y E. And it's about the flight attendants' uniforms and the harms that they do. Because they're coated, they have a lot of PFOS because they, you know, have to keep clean in the. And, and they've got, they're not clean, right? Because they have this PFOS in them. It's in sports uniforms. You do a lot with sports, all the sports uniforms.

• 24:56Joe Rogan?

  Nylon. Yeah. Is it anything with nylon? Is that what it is?

• 25:01Speaker 03

  Probably, but I'm not sure. I'm not, you know, I could refer you to somebody, but I'm not the clothing expert. But I know that they're in these things. And one of the things that is kind of scary is school uniforms. You know, a lot of kids have school uniforms and they're loaded with it.

• 25:19Joe Rogan?

  Oh.

• 25:20Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 25:20Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, my kids used to wear a uniform every day.

• 25:22Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 25:23Joe Rogan?

  When you, you say to die for, are dyes in cotton clothes also releasing?

• 25:29Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 25:29Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 25:30Speaker 03

  Yes. Dyes are, dyes are very risky.

• 25:34Joe Rogan?

  We gotta go back to being Amish.

• 25:36Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 25:37Joe Rogan?

  Here it is.

• 25:38Speaker 03

  Oh, good, yeah.

• 25:39Joe Rogan?

  So in fact, there's little or no regulation of clothes or textiles we wear each day. From uniforms to fast fashion, outdoor gear, and even the face masks that have become ubiquitous in recent years. Wicker explains how we got here, what the stakes are, what all of us can do in the fight for a safe and healthy wardrobe for all. Wow.

• 25:57Speaker 03

  And that's in the film, is discussed in the film. A little bit, not the major, but it's.

• 26:03Joe Rogan?

  So, blue jeans?

• 26:06Speaker 03

  Probably.

• 26:06Joe Rogan?

  Probably.

• 26:07Speaker 03

  I can't, you know, speak about.

• 26:10Joe Rogan?

  There is a river, uh, I believe it's in China, where a, a series of blue jean factories exist.

• 26:18Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 26:18Joe Rogan?

  Where the entire river is blue. It's so disgusting, like, not blue like beautiful, clean water. Blue like dye.

• 26:26Speaker 03

  Dyed water.

• 26:27Joe Rogan?

  Like dye, look at this, look at that.

• 26:31Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 26:31Joe Rogan?

  That's the blue jean capital of the world.

• 26:33Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 26:34Joe Rogan?

  That's where they make a lot of blue jeans and look at the stinky, dirty, disgusting, blue dye water. That is just that river leaking out into the ocean, which also looks polluted. You want cheap clothes, kids? This is what happens.

• 26:49Speaker 03

  (laughing).

• 26:49Joe Rogan?

  It's so crazy, like, look at that stuff. I mean, how many jeans are they making?

• 26:54Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 26:55Joe Rogan?

  And what are the, you know?

• 26:58Speaker 03

  And this is a good point for me to point out that these things are affecting animals, of course. Like, the animals fishing this.

• 27:07Joe Rogan?

  Look at this, African rivers as well. Gee. Of course, we do it in other places. If we did in America, people would be aware. Canada? Canada, too.

• 27:17Speaker 03

  I'm not sure they'd be aware.

• 27:19Joe Rogan?

  You don't think so?

• 27:20Speaker 03

  No.

• 27:20Joe Rogan?

  We're trying.

• 27:21Speaker 03

  We're trying.

• 27:22Joe Rogan?

  We're trying to get them aware. I mean, that's what we're doing right now, right?

• 27:25Speaker 03

  Yeah, right. So, to go back to that point you raised about, you know, reasons that people give for low testosterone or low fertility, low sperm count. And particularly, this comes up for fertility. Couple, more couples are, you know, fertility is in the toilet, right?

• 27:46Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 27:46Speaker 03

  Yep. That's a weird thing to say, but, yeah, right.

• 27:50Joe Rogan?

  For lack of a better.

• 27:51Speaker 03

  Right, right, right.

• 27:52Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 27:53Speaker 03

  Um, and, um, I mean, used to be five children per couple on the average in 1960, and now it's, in South Korea, it's like 0.80.

• 28:07Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 28:08Speaker 03

  That's the worst, you know.

• 28:10Joe Rogan?

  Why is South Korea the worst?

• 28:11Speaker 03

  I don't know. I mean, all of East Asia is very, very low.

• 28:14Joe Rogan?

  South Korea's, their replacement numbers are so low.

• 28:18Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 28:19Joe Rogan?

  That it's, they're in danger of complete population collapse.

• 28:21Speaker 03

  Absolutely. And, and Japan is getting there and, you know, all of that Southeast Asia. And, um, so when, there's a lot of articles about this, a lot of editorials, a lot of articles, and they make me so, Joe, they make me so mad because they say correctly that having a child at older age will do this to some extent, you know, not wanting to have children, as many children, will do this to some extent, but they never mention toxics.

• 28:56Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 28:56Speaker 03

  They just, and so I've written editorials saying, hey, guys, we're not alone on this planet and we're not the only species that's declining in number. And then if you look at the curve of the number of species that are declining and the rate of decline of human fertility, they're parallel. It's all, all about 1% per year. And, and so they're, and we know they're exposed, these other species, you showed it. Those fish in that water are exposed and, you know, animals on the periphery. So I would love for everybody, when they look at these numbers of declining fertility, consider that it's not all choice.

• 29:41Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 29:41Speaker 03

  Animals are not choosing to have their children later or to delay childbearing, right?

• 29:47Joe Rogan?

  They have big careers. Beavers are trying to make dams. They don't have time for children.

• 29:51Speaker 03

  Right. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. So for, for me, you know, it's not, there, those are good, those are explanations for sure. Obviously, when you get older, your fertility is less. Obviously, if you have a busy life and you don't have time to have children, you shouldn't have children. But...

• 30:13Speaker 03

  The toxics matter. They matter a lot.

• 30:15Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, 100%.

• 30:16Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 30:16Joe Rogan?

  And the animals, is the issue exposure to water that has these chemicals in it because of pollution? What is, what is causing it with them?

• 30:28Speaker 03

  It's in the water, it's in the soil, it's in the, what they eat because it comes in, you know, in the plants.

• 30:37Joe Rogan?

  It gets into the plants?

• 30:39Speaker 03

  Yeah, do you know that phthalates, I'm just, this is a little, fun fact, phthalates are put in pesticides. Why would they do that? Well, they, because, one of the things that phthalates do is they increase absorption. That's why they're in hand cream.

• 30:56Joe Rogan?

  Ah.

• 30:57Speaker 03

  Right, you see, you put your hand cream on, it goes in your skin, right? Phthalates help that. You have the pesticide you want it to go into the plant? Phthalates help that. So, you know, they're, these exposures are all over the place for, and animals are getting them too. A long time ago, I don't think we talked about this, but there was a wonderful scientist who's not living anymore, his name is Lou Gillette, he lived in Florida, and he showed that alligators swimming in a lake that had a lot of runoff of pesticides, get this, their penises were small. He measured them, and he was, he was a big, he's like, he was a big guy.

• 31:41Speaker 03

  He, he went, he had to do it at night, he went at night, wrestled them into the boat. And I have pictures of that, took them to his lab.

• 31:50Joe Rogan?

  Measured their penises?

• 31:51Speaker 03

  Measured their penises.

• 31:53Joe Rogan?

  They must have been very confused when they got let go. Like, what is this guy kinky with? What is his thing?

• 32:01Speaker 03

  You know, and, and they, and they had fewer eggs.

• 32:05Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 32:06Speaker 03

  So they were declining species. That's just a very dramatic example of, you know, if you, can you put up penis size and...

• 32:18Speaker 03

  Alligator penis sizes? I'm just wondering.

• 32:20Joe Rogan?

  As if you don't already Google that, Jamie.

• 32:23Speaker 04

  Let me find you a photo.

• 32:26Speaker 04

  I asked our perplexity this thing and it says, yeah.

• 32:29Joe Rogan?

  So our sponsor, Perplexity, said, yes, this has actually been documented in wild alligators. Males in heavily polluted lakes have, on average, smaller penises and other reproductive problems linked to hormone-disrupting chemicals. We are shrinking alligator penises, ladies and gentlemen.

• 32:46Speaker 03

  And not only alligator penises.

• 32:47Joe Rogan?

  Twenty-five percent smaller penis sizes compared to males from a cleaner reference lake. Males of lower testosterone levels, around 70 percent lower. Abnormal relationships between hormone levels and penis growth, unlike alligators from cleaner lakes. Alligators from polluted lakes also show other reproductive issues: abnormal sex hormone patterns, altered gonads, low hatching success, various birth defects, all consistent with exposure to endocrine-disrupting contaminants, EDCs such as DDT derivatives, dildrin, PCBs, and related compounds. Wow. So it's all endocrine disruptors from pollution? Oh, boy.

• 33:29Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I mean, you would think that this would sound the alarm.

• 33:33Speaker 03

  And this is not new. This is, he's dead. This is old work.

• 33:38Joe Rogan?

  Oh. And no one knows. Yeah, it's never discussed. First of all, it's not a lot of people that say, first problem on my list today, alligator penis sizes. It's a real issue. Like, you're in front of Congress, we gotta talk. Alligator penis sizes are shrinking. They'd kick you out of the building.

• 33:55Speaker 03

  Actually, he, Lou Gillette, went to Congress and he gave a talk and he said, every man in this room is half the man his grandfather was.

• 34:08Joe Rogan?

  Mmm. As far as testosterone levels, right?

• 34:12Speaker 03

  And penis size, well, he didn't measure their penis.

• 34:15Joe Rogan?

  Dig grandpa and check it out.

• 34:16Speaker 03

  Making this point, you know, and fertility and all this, yeah, yeah.

• 34:19Joe Rogan?

  Well, I mean, it completely makes sense, but what doesn't make sense is how little attention is being paid. You would think that in a society that is fa- I mean, America is also facing a potential population collapse. People don't think about that, but our reproduction numbers, we're not reprodu- yeah, they're, they're down quite a bit. And they're not at the level that we need in order to keep our population.

• 34:42Speaker 03

  It's the, you know, the normal shape of the population is like this, right? So this is up here, not very many people, and down here, lots and lots of people.

• 34:51Joe Rogan?

  And this is terms of age, older, younger, at the bottom, right?

• 34:55Speaker 03

  Lots of people are living longer, but few are down here. And then what that means is the ones down here are supposed to support the ones up here.

• 35:04Joe Rogan?

  But there's not enough of them.

• 35:05Speaker 03

  But not enough of them.

• 35:05Joe Rogan?

  Right, yeah.

• 35:07Speaker 03

  So it's a huge societal problem.

• 35:11Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's just so confusing how few people are even aware of this. We were talking, I didn't realize it had been five years since our last podcast, which is pretty crazy. But in that five years, you barely hear about it. It's occasional, people bring up certain chemicals they think are bad, oh, avoid this. Paul Saladino was the one that showed that the paper cups that you get from a coffee shop, that if you take that paper away, what you have is essentially this plastic membrane. And that's what you're drinking your coffee out of, you're not drinking your coffee out of paper. And how terrible these things are for you. But even that, it's like people just dismiss it, the line around Starbucks is always the same.

• 35:53Joe Rogan?

  There's always people going to get their coffee, they don't think anything of it, and they're just consuming these chemicals that mess up your health, mess up your vitality, your, your energy levels, everything, brain fog.

• 36:05Speaker 03

  But who's, who's, who's responsibility is it, you know?

• 36:08Joe Rogan?

  Well, to talk about it, I think it's ours, it's certainly yours and mine. And, well, we'll spread this word and more people discuss it. And I think more people need to be aware that this directly impacts you. Like, this is not like in the future, I don't have to think about it, I'll be dead. No, it's, it directly impacts your health, your energy levels, your vitality, right now, as a living human being, listening to this show.

• 36:36Speaker 03

  So, just to add to that, how it affects you, not you.

• 36:41Joe Rogan?

  Humans.

• 36:42Speaker 03

  Maybe your levels are lower, I don't know, but we'll find out. But, um, both men and women who have lower fertility, on average, these are studies, there have been about four or five studies that have shown this, lower fertility and sperm count on the male side, die younger. Die younger, okay? This is, should be of concern to everybody.

• 37:06Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 37:07Speaker 03

  Your life expectancy is sure, yeah.

• 37:09Joe Rogan?

  You have less vitality, less energy, less life force.

• 37:12Speaker 03

  Yeah, and the things that affect your sperm, your vitality, your testosterone are also affecting, it's a canary in the coal mine, if you will, of lots of things that are going south.

• 37:23Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 37:24Speaker 03

  At the same time.

• 37:25Joe Rogan?

  Which completely makes sense, and is the case of my friend Phillip, all this fatigue, all these issues that he was experiencing, yeah.

• 37:31Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's not just one, never just one thing.

• 37:33Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 37:34Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 37:35Joe Rogan?

  It's, uh, it is quite disturbing how uncommon these discussions are, though. That's what's crazy, you know, that this is a, this should be a huge factor. I mean, we get concerned with so many, oh, there's people concerned with alcohol consumption, it's a big thing, like, and that has had an impact. Children today, or young adults, I should say, today are consuming much less alcohol than people in the past. Cigarette smoking, we're aware, very dangerous. Much less cigarette smoking than in the past. The consumption of these endocrine-disrupting chemicals is essentially the same as when we talked five years ago. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp.

• 38:17Joe Rogan?

  If you've thought about trying therapy with our long-term partner, BetterHelp, insurance options may now be available nationwide with an average copay for eligible members of just $23 per session. And with World Mental Health Day on the 10th, now's the perfect time to give it a try. In fact, don't even wait until the 10th, because all that stress you feel, it's not waiting around. So, instead of letting it build up, sign up for a therapy session and unload at any time. Not just on World Mental Health Day. If you've been waiting to start therapy, BetterHelp works with more than 125 health plan networks, and eligible members have an average copay of just $23 per session with insurance.

• 39:00Joe Rogan?

  Don't have insurance or live outside of the United States? You can still get 10% off your first month. Visit betterhelp.com to explore your payment options. That's better H E L P dot com. This episode is brought to you by Chime. And I know people don't usually get excited about banking, but Chime is doing something different, and it's worth paying attention to. In a recent survey, they ranked the number one choice for new checking accounts in America. That means real people, millions of them, are choosing this over traditional banks. That's because banking at Chime is fee-free. No monthly fees, no overdraft fees, and thousands of fee-free ATMs. But here's the real kicker. If you get their Chime card,

• 39:45Joe Rogan?

  it gives you 5% cash back on a category you actually pick yourself. Your savings rate, crazy high. It's nine times the national average. They're calling it the most rewarding way to bank. Go to chime.com/rogan. Takes a few minutes to sign up. Chime is a fintech, not a bank. Banking services and Chime card provided by Chime's bank partners. Terms and limits apply. Go to chime.com/disclosures for more details.

• 40:14Speaker 03

  So I want to go back to this question I asked is, who's responsibility? So I don't think it's... I mean, it's great for you and I to be concerned and for your listeners to be concerned, but in fact, it shouldn't be our responsibility. Because, you know, the drug, FDA does drugs, right? They have pretty good control of, you know, safety of drugs. Eh. Pretty good. Eh. Yeah, okay, we can talk about that. But compared to chemicals in our daily products, the products we use every day, it's fantastic. Because the regulatory agencies are not doing the job.

• 40:57Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 40:57Speaker 03

  Okay? And so that's why it's all out there. Because they're not doing the job. Here, in Europe, it's much better, by the way.

• 41:04Joe Rogan?

  Is it?

• 41:04Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 41:05Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's bad, because they're going to beat us. They'll out-reproduce us, we'll go away, and they'll take over.

• 41:11Speaker 03

  Well...

• 41:12Joe Rogan?

  No more America.

• 41:13Speaker 03

  We have to get people angry. Enough to put pressure on, you know, there's a bill, the TSCA Toxic Substances Control Act, which should be doing a lot of this, and I think it's coming up for revision and, you know, maybe people can pay attention to that and read about it and, you know, think, government should be doing this. It's not our job. It's not our job to worry about what's in our pants and what's in our this and our this and our this. You were asking what kind of, you know, denim and so on. Should we have to read up on that?

• 41:53Joe Rogan?

  Is there, are there dyes for jeans and clothes that are not toxic?

• 41:59Speaker 03

  Yes, but as I said, this is not my area.

• 42:03Joe Rogan?

  I understand.

• 42:04Speaker 03

  Yeah, you gotta get, I can give you a name if you want, get somebody on clothing and, you know, on this.

• 42:08Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I'd be happy to.

• 42:10Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. But just because it was relatively new to my consciousness when I was, you know, doing the film and before that, we didn't collect data on that, unfortunately. You know, maybe we should do another study. Which reminds me, there is just like so much work to be done, and for my program, there's so many interventions I want to do. We did this one, which great success, and now we're doing another one, and we have another one. But if anybody wants to help with this, it's all privately funded. The government is not going to fund this.

• 42:47Joe Rogan?

  Right, unfortunately.

• 42:48Speaker 03

  Unfortunately. So, you know, let me know if anybody comes to you and says, how can we help and all that.

• 42:54Joe Rogan?

  Well, I'm sure somebody will reach out. They usually do. The thing that I would imagine would be the response to something like this was that there are so many industries that are established already that require the use of all these compounds, all these chemicals, all these endocrine-disrupting chemicals. And it is, it's just everywhere. And it's everywhere in everything. They use plastic in the production of so many different things. These things are leaching into our food, they're leaching into our clothes, they're leaching into all these various products that we use that contribute to these chemicals entering into our body, disrupting that. So like, you're aware of glyphosate, I'm sure.

• 43:38Joe Rogan?

  They were trying to eliminate glyphosate from the industrial agriculture.

• 43:44Speaker 03

  Good luck.

• 43:45Joe Rogan?

  Exactly. Well, the president passed an executive order blocking it because some enormous percent, ninety-something percent of all of our food, in terms of wheat, corn, all the agriculture in this country relies on glyphosate for production. And so, the idea is, we need poison so that we can make food, which is so crazy, especially when you consider the fact that all these other countries don't use glyphosate and feed their population. So, how are they doing it?

• 44:17Speaker 03

  Right.

• 44:18Joe Rogan?

  And what do we need to do to get back on that track? And, you know, I had RFK Junior in here to discuss it, and he was very crestfallen when he was explaining that there was an executive order passed and that, you know, he was working very hard to try to eliminate glyphosate. And something that he discussed in, you know, previous meetings that he and I had, that was one of his primary concerns, glyphosate is toxic, it's terrible, it's just completely awful for your body, yet the use of it is ubiquitous in agriculture, industrial agriculture. And he was trying very hard to try to eliminate it, and then the government passes this executive order because in their estimation...

• 44:56Speaker 03

  Pressure.

• 44:57Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, exactly, pressure. Yeah. And this is what I worry about with...

• 45:01Speaker 03

  Yeah, of course.

• 45:02Joe Rogan?

  And I don't want to mention any names, but there's a lot of these popular clothing brands that people wear that are, you know, fitness, I'm healthy, I'm fitness wear. And these fitness wear, these clothings that you're wearing are leaching these chemicals into your body that are screwing up your health, which is so crazy.

• 45:20Speaker 03

  Crazy, right?

• 45:20Joe Rogan?

  But it's so, I don't want to say it's perfect, but it sort of encapsulates how screwed up our modern life is.

• 45:28Speaker 03

  The paradox, yeah.

• 45:29Joe Rogan?

  Yes, the paradox.

• 45:30Speaker 03

  So, I did a study on glyphosate. I mean, I examined our populations for glyphosate. And interestingly, they also have an effect on, remember A and A genital distance?

• 45:43Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 45:44Speaker 03

  AJD, the taint size.

• 45:45Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 45:46Speaker 03

  They influence the taint size.

• 45:47Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 45:48Speaker 03

  Now, that's not, we did it in two studies, and there's been some animal studies. I can't say this is an established fact, but I'm just pointing out that it has very, you know, many unforeseen consequences, none of them good. And by the way, I was... Asked to go to talk to RFK tomorrow, but I can't because I have another, another meeting, but, but I would love to talk to him about this because this, this glyphosate is a big concern of mine.

• 46:17Joe Rogan?

  Well, I hope you do talk to him.

• 46:20Speaker 03

  Yeah, he, he has these roundtables and on different scientific topics. So this one is on microplastics, which is not perfect for me because I haven't measured them, but, but if he has one on glyphosate or pesticides, that would be a good place.

• 46:35Joe Rogan?

  Well, his hands are tied right now on the glyphosate issue momentarily. They have some non-toxic solutions. One of them is they have this new device, which is like the same way these machines pull the crops out of the ground, these machines go over the crops and zap all the non-essential crops with a laser beam. Non-essential crops, excuse me, non-essential plants, so weeds, I would say. So as the corn's growing or whatever, whatever else it is, they're zapping all the other stuff that's growing around it, that's sucking up all the resources, all the weeds.

• 47:18Speaker 03

  Yeah. That sounds like a good step.

• 47:21Joe Rogan?

  That's a great step.

• 47:22Speaker 03

  Because it minimizes the use of pesticides.

• 47:24Joe Rogan?

  Exactly. And I asked, does it have any residual effect on the food? He said, no. Well, that's great. But then, you know, farmers, one of the big problems is they're already barely making money. So if you now require them to spend, you know, X amount of dollars on some gigantic weed-zapping laser that has to cover who knows how many acres, they're running these, I mean, I'm sure you're aware, but monocrop agriculture, for people who've never seen, some of these places that grow corn and wheat, you're talking about these massive pieces of land that only grow one thing, which in nature doesn't exist. So of course, nature wants to rectify that. Nature's like, why is there only wheat here? You need weeds.

• 48:09Joe Rogan?

  And so, you know, birds drop seeds, all these seeds fly in the wind, and then all these things grow. So you're gonna have to get these machines that are capable of traveling over all of those crops and zapping out all the weeds. How much is that gonna cost to people that are already struggling?

• 48:27Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 48:28Joe Rogan?

  You know, cuz the American farmers are barely getting by, barely, and we need them. And, you know, the last thing you wanna do is burden them with another cost. But also, you know, the use of, especially when it comes to things like wheat, because they're using it after they harvest the wheat to dry it out quicker so that it doesn't grow mold on it. That's why they're using glyphosate. So it's not even, it's not even as a pesticide.

• 48:51Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 48:52Joe Rogan?

  It's they're using it-

• 48:53Speaker 03

  I didn't know that.

• 48:53Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, they're using it as a, I guess, a desiccator.

• 48:55Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 48:56Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. And that's why so many theorized to be why so many people in this country have a problem with bread, you know?

• 49:05Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 49:06Joe Rogan?

  It should make sense.

• 49:07Speaker 03

  And with their taint, no.

• 49:08Joe Rogan?

  And their taint, yeah. A lot of taint problems, a lot of people complaining. Uh, but it's just, it's so weird that we're so intelligent and so informed and, you know, now we all have supercomputers in our pockets that have access to things like perplexity, they can answer any questions you have about anything. But yet we're being poisoned by the very food that we eat, the coffee that we drink, the clothing that we wear.

• 49:32Speaker 03

  Water we drink.

• 49:33Joe Rogan?

  The water we drink, everything.

• 49:35Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 49:36Joe Rogan?

  Here's a good question. Are there any good filters on a consumer level that will remove a lot of these chemicals from water that a person can buy?

• 49:47Speaker 03

  I can't name any brands.

• 49:49Joe Rogan?

  Right, but are they available?

• 49:51Speaker 03

  Yes, there are, but I-

• 49:52Joe Rogan?

  Is it reverse osmosis? Like, what are the ones that work the best?

• 49:56Speaker 03

  I'll tell you my, my solution in my house.

• 49:58Joe Rogan?

  Please.

• 49:59Speaker 03

  Okay, that's very personal. Um, we distill our water. You, you know, so, so the water out of the tap-

• 50:08Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 50:08Speaker 03

  -goes into a big container, and then it's boiled, steam is formed, crosses over, and the steam is condensed into another container, right?

• 50:19Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 50:19Speaker 03

  And that has nothing in it and removes everything. And, by the way, all germs also, so, yeah. So that's what we've chosen. And then in this thing that sits on the counter, um, my husband does this every other day. It's kind of a nuisance, but not too bad. And, and the water is fantastic.

• 50:39Joe Rogan?

  Do you have to re-mineralize it?

• 50:42Speaker 03

  You should take minerals somewhere. You can do it in the water. You can do it in your supplements. It does remove the minerals, yes.

• 50:49Joe Rogan?

  Right, and that's what I've heard is the problem with drinking distilled water is that it actually leaches minerals and nutrients from your own body.

• 50:57Speaker 03

  That I don't believe.

• 50:59Joe Rogan?

  No?

• 50:59Speaker 03

  I don't believe that. But the water itself has had its minerals.

• 51:03Joe Rogan?

  Well, let's put it into perplexity. What is the issue with drinking distilled water for health purposes? And is it recommended that you add electrolytes or minerals or what have you? Because that's what... So, one of the things that fighters do when they're cutting weight, I don't think most of them do it anymore, but a lot of them were drinking distilled water so that the water would go in their system and right out of their system. Because cutting weight for fighting, I don't know if you know about this, but they have to weigh in at a certain weight class, and essentially what they do is radically dehydrate themselves 24 hours before a fight, which is not a great idea. It's a terrible idea. So, perplexity says it is generally safe to drink distilled water. Most people do not

• 51:45Joe Rogan?

  need to add minerals to it as long as they eat a reasonably balanced diet. Distilled water simply was boiled and recondensed, so it's very low in contaminants and minerals. Health sources note that it is safe to drink but tends to taste flat because minerals like calcium, magnesium are removed. What about minerals? You get the vast majority of needed minerals, calcium, magnesium, potassium, etc., from food, not water. So, distilled water alone does not usually cause deficiencies in healthy people with a good diet. However, some organizations and reviews point out that long-term use of very low mineral water may slightly reduce mineral intake, and in specific groups, children, heavy exercisers, there we go, people with certain illnesses, could contribute to electrolyte imbalance if diet is poor.

• 52:30Joe Rogan?

  So, when might adding minerals help? Distilled water is humane or only drinking water, your diet is low in fruits, vegetables, and other mineral-rich foods, adding a pinch of mineral salt or using a re-mineralization cartridge, that sounds terrible, cartridge sounds like plastic, right? Or drops can help restore small amounts of calcium, magnesium, and electrolytes and improve taste. Athletes who sweat heavily, people with kidney or hormonal issues affecting electrolytes, and those on very restricted diets should be more cautious about relying exclusively on distilled water and may benefit from electrolyte or mineral replacement as advised by a clinician. Um, I mean, I recommend people take electrolytes anyway. I, I always add electrolytes to water.

• 53:13Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 53:14Joe Rogan?

  Every day.

• 53:14Speaker 03

  Here, here's a funny anecdote. We have a cat and.

• 53:18Joe Rogan?

  What's your cat's name?

• 53:19Speaker 03

  His name is Archie.

• 53:20Joe Rogan?

  Archie.

• 53:21Speaker 03

  Archie. And Archie comes, patrols the house and steals our water whenever possible. He comes and drinks from our glasses unless we cover them up.

• 53:33Joe Rogan?

  So they think Archie probably likes your water because it doesn't smell like poison to him.

• 53:36Speaker 03

  He loves our water.

• 53:38Joe Rogan?

  Ah.

• 53:39Speaker 03

  He has the choice of his own water, which comes out of the tap. And he will hundred percent prefer our distilled water.

• 53:48Joe Rogan?

  Which makes sense if you think about a cat's sense of smell, it's gotta be off the charts.

• 53:51Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 53:52Joe Rogan?

  So he can probably smell like this water's got a bunch of junk in it.

• 53:55Speaker 03

  And when you do the distill, do the process, which Stephen does, you know, every other day. And he goes to clean the container that you put the water in, it stinks.

• 54:05Joe Rogan?

  Mmm.

• 54:05Speaker 03

  It really stinks. You would be shocked.

• 54:07Joe Rogan?

  Wow. Well, we have a crazy filter at our house. We have well water and then we have this crazy filter, this giant machine that filters all the water. It tastes delicious, but um, it's not distilled.

• 54:24Speaker 03

  I'm not, I'm not saying that, you know, um, that's, you shouldn't distill, that's an alternative. I mean, sorry, you shouldn't filter, that's an alternative. But I'm just saying what we chose to do in our house.

• 54:35Joe Rogan?

  Right. And so um, the distilling, it removes chlorine and all these other issues that are in the water as well. Yeah, and fluoride, everything. Yeah. Fluoride is another one that's bananas that we add to water.

• 54:46Speaker 03

  Right.

• 54:47Joe Rogan?

  Under the guise that it helps your teeth, like, shut up, brush your teeth. You know, I don't have any cavities. I don't use fluoride. I have fluoride-free toothpaste. I don't have fluoride in my water. It's dumb. It's not just dumb, it's completely connected to lower IQs. There's a direct correlation between higher fluoride content in water and lower IQs. But there's a giant business involved in selling fluoride to these municipal water supplies.

• 55:16Speaker 03

  I know.

• 55:16Joe Rogan?

  Which is nuts. More poison. Like, we are so screwed up.

• 55:20Speaker 03

  Chlorination.

• 55:21Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 55:22Speaker 03

  And I've studied, for years I studied chlorination byproducts and they cause miscarriage.

• 55:29Joe Rogan?

  So it's gotta be terrible for people that swim a lot in public pools, right?

• 55:33Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 55:34Joe Rogan?

  Because then it's being absorbed by your skin.

• 55:37Speaker 03

  I don't know how much exposure you get in the relatively short time you're swimming.

• 55:41Joe Rogan?

  Let's find out.

• 55:42Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 55:42Joe Rogan?

  Let's find out. Put that into perplexity. How much of an issue is chlorine exposure in swimming pools?

• 55:52Joe Rogan?

  Hmm. Let's find out. We don't know.

• 55:56Joe Rogan?

  We're learning so much.

• 55:58Speaker 03

  I love this little science.

• 55:59Speaker 04

  I feel like that's not, that question's gonna get tossed around here by perplexity because it could go multiple ways with it. Like, is there too much chlorine? Like, what are you, like, you know what I mean?

• 56:07Joe Rogan?

  Right. Okay, let's say, uh, is chlorine exposure in swimming pools a health concern?

• 56:15Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's good.

• 56:16Joe Rogan?

  There we go. Let's try that. I bet it is. I mean, it only makes sense. I would like to study someone like Michael Phelps, someone who's spent like

• 56:25Speaker 03

  Spent his life in the pool.

• 56:26Joe Rogan?

  Thousands of hours in a pool, whether or not it's affected his body in any way. Whether or not there's like measurable chlorine levels in his urine or what have you. Chlorine in properly maintained pools is generally considered safe, but it can cause irritation of eyes, skin, and airways. Well, that can't be good. And heavily frequent exposure, especially indoors, can contribute to respiratory problems in some people. What chlorine does in pools, it kills germs like bacteria and viruses in pools, and is key for preventing infections and diarrhea illnesses from contaminated water. Public health guidance typically recommends free chlorine about one to four parts per million, with pH 7.0 to 7.8, within this range.

• 57:07Joe Rogan?

  Disinfection is effective and side effects are usually mild. Common short-term effects: irritation of eyes, nose, throat, skin. Common when levels are high, when chloramines build up, especially in indoor pools. Chloramines form when chlorine reacts with sweat, urine, and other organic matter can become airborne and irritate the respiratory tract, causing coughing, wheezing, or tight chest in some swimmers and staff.

• 57:34Joe Rogan?

  Long-term, regular, heavy exposure in indoors, pool, poorly ventilated pools, has been linked to increased respiratory symptoms. Some studies suggest increased asthma risk. Okay, put this in as a follow-up question. Is exposure to chlorine

• 57:58Joe Rogan?

  Through the skin.

• 58:03Joe Rogan?

  Responsible. For any health issues.

• 58:11Joe Rogan?

  Let's just, just through the skin, see if there's any studies on that. Chlorine getting into the body through the intact skin from pool water does not appear to cause systemic, whole body health problems in otherwise healthy people. Its effects are almost entirely local to the skin itself. What skin exposure actually does, chlorine is an irritant that strips the natural skin oils, disrupts the outer barrier, leading to dryness, tightness, itching. So, put about, put this in. What exposure does chlorine have to healthy skin flora? Because healthy skin flora, you know, I, I do jujitsu, and one of the things that happens with jujitsu is you get a lot of skin diseases, like you get. Really?

• 58:54Joe Rogan?

  People get ringworm, staph infections. Why? Well, you're getting scratched up a lot, and you're rolling around on the mats, and if the mats are dirty, and if it's just, there's exposure to it, you can have a problem. And then, one of the problems that people have, is to treat that, they use antibacterial skin soap. So, what that does is strips the skin of all the healthy flora, which actually protects you. Yeah. The con, the counter to that, I always bring this up, I have no affiliation with this product, but it's an excellent product, it's called Defense Soap. Defense Soap is, my friend Guy Sacco, he invented it, he's a wrestling coach, and his, it was a solution

• 59:33Joe Rogan?

  using healthy things like tea tree oil, eucalyptus, in the soap that kills the bad bacteria, but does nothing to the healthy flora. That's great. Yes. So, that's the only soap that I use. Yeah. Chlorinated pool water does disturb normal skin flora temporarily, but in healthy people, the microbiome usually recovers within hours to a day or so after swimming. So that's a problem if you swim every day then. Chlorine is a broad disinfectant, so it kills or suppresses both good and bad bacteria on the skin surface.

• 1:00:07Speaker 03

  That's what you were saying, yeah.

• 1:00:08Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Reducing overall microbial diversity right after swimming. Experimental and field studies show that even short exposure can cut measured microbiome diversity markedly, often cited around 30 to 40 percent, with composition shifting away from the usual dominant groups right after a swim. How long disruption lasts? After leaving the pool, many of the resident species begin to recolonize from deeper skin layers, hair follicles, and the environment, and community composition tends to drift backward towards baseline over the next 24-plus hours. With frequent, repeated swimming, daily or high-volume training, the skin may be in

• 1:00:49Joe Rogan?

  a more chronically perturbed state with less time for full microbiome recovery in between exposures. I know a lot of people have switched their pools over to saltwater pools for this very reason.

• 1:01:03Speaker 03

  Interesting.

• 1:01:04Joe Rogan?

  I think there's a problem with saltwater pools in very high-temperature areas, though, where it's not effective enough to stop mold and all the junk.

• 1:01:14Speaker 03

  Right, right, right, right.

• 1:01:16Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:17Speaker 03

  Do you want to see these products I brought?

• 1:01:20Joe Rogan?

  I would love to see these products you brought.

• 1:01:21Speaker 03

  Here you go. These are for cleaning up your kitchen.

• 1:01:25Speaker 04

  Just a note on what you just said.

• 1:01:26Joe Rogan?

  What's up, Jimmy?

• 1:01:27Speaker 04

  A note on what you just said. A saltwater pool is still technically a chlorine pool.

• 1:01:30Joe Rogan?

  Oh, still a chlorine pool. It just makes the chlorine on-site instead of pouring it in. Oh.

• 1:01:35Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:01:36Joe Rogan?

  Salt systems work. Pool is ordinary salt, sodium chloride dissolved in the water, usually around 2,700 or 3,400 parts per million, which is about one-tenth the salinity of the ocean, and close to body fluid levels. The water passes through an electrically-charged salt cell, which uses electrolysis to convert some of that salt into active chlorine. Mainly hypochlorous acid and sodium hypochlorite that sanitizes the pool. After chlorine does its job, it ends up back as chloride and the cycle repeats. So you keep generating chlorine as long as the system runs and there's enough salt. What's different from your standard chlorine pool, you still have free chlorine in the water

• 1:02:19Joe Rogan?

  at typical pool levels, about one to four parts per million. The difference is the source, salt generator versus liquid tabal chlorine, not the sanitizer itself. Most people find salt pools a bit gentler, the water feels softer, and continuous low level generation can mean fewer chloramides, less smell and irritation if the system is sized and maintained correctly. Interesting. Okay, so it's still chlorine. So it still probably disturbs your microbiome, which sucks. This episode is brought to you by Intuit TurboTax. April 15th is coming fast. There's been so many tax law changes this year, which means you're going to need an expert who has your back. You're in luck.

• 1:03:03Joe Rogan?

  TurboTax now has in-person locations nationwide. Walk into their tech-enabled stores and meet face-to-face with a TurboTax full-service expert who will get your best outcome. Your expert works to get you every doll you deserve while updating you as you go about your day. Head to TurboTax.com to find a store near you.

• 1:03:30Joe Rogan?

  Sealed. Should we just open it?

• 1:03:34Speaker 03

  Should be openable.

• 1:03:35Joe Rogan?

  No, it's not sealed. It's tight. What do we got in here? A lot of stuff.

• 1:03:42Speaker 03

  So, in the movie, you'll see that I came to the homes of the participants with a big box, about this big. So this is obviously a very small part of that. Yep, this is just part of your kitchen.

• 1:03:56Joe Rogan?

  So these are bags that are safe, oven, freezer, microwave? It's called Zip Top.

• 1:04:01Speaker 03

  Yeah, they're silicone. They're made of silicone.

• 1:04:03Joe Rogan?

  Okay. So silicone's okay?

• 1:04:05Speaker 03

  Silicone, there is food-grade silicone.

• 1:04:09Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 1:04:10Speaker 03

  And that is...

• 1:04:12Joe Rogan?

  Like spatulas?

• 1:04:14Speaker 03

  Yeah. And food-grade silicone is free of phthalates and daphenols, so you can use that.

• 1:04:21Joe Rogan?

  Oh, this is a lot thicker.

• 1:04:22Speaker 03

  A lot thicker, yeah.

• 1:04:23Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. And so this is reusable?

• 1:04:27Speaker 03

  Yeah, absolutely. And you just store your, put your food in the fridge and that, instead of in a...

• 1:04:32Joe Rogan?

  So you can buy these things? They're, this company Zip Top, is the, do they make them specifically for that reason?

• 1:04:39Speaker 03

  Yeah, I'm sure, yeah. There's, one of many companies that makes...

• 1:04:43Joe Rogan?

  So this is essentially like a Ziploc bag?

• 1:04:46Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 1:04:46Joe Rogan?

  But it's way thicker?

• 1:04:47Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:04:49Joe Rogan?

  Kinda cool. And so they make these larger as well?

• 1:04:52Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:04:53Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 1:04:54Speaker 03

  There are a lot of good alternatives for food storage. You know, glass, of course, is really good.

• 1:04:59Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:05:00Speaker 03

  Um, and ceramic is really good.

• 1:05:03Joe Rogan?

  Well, this seems so much better too, because it's not creating as much plastic waste, since it's reusable.

• 1:05:08Speaker 03

  Right, right, right.

• 1:05:08Joe Rogan?

  Now, do you just run this through a dishwasher? Now, what about dishwashing solvents and detergents and stuff like that? Oh.

• 1:05:16Speaker 03

  Uh, yeah.

• 1:05:17Joe Rogan?

  There's always problems!

• 1:05:17Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:05:18Joe Rogan?

  World's filled with problems, Jamie!

• 1:05:21Speaker 03

  The pods are probably not great.

• 1:05:23Joe Rogan?

  Oh, right, of course, right? Damn pods.

• 1:05:27Speaker 03

  Pods, tea bags, coffee pods, yeah.

• 1:05:30Joe Rogan?

  Remember when kids were eating Tide Pods?

• 1:05:33Joe Rogan?

  It's like, nature's trying to get rid of some of the dummies.

• 1:05:38Joe Rogan?

  Um, okay, so this company...

• 1:05:40Speaker 03

  I think there's two of those in there.

• 1:05:42Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:42Speaker 03

  These are just little examples, you know?

• 1:05:44Joe Rogan?

  Just give this company a shout-out. It's called, uh, Zip Top. And, uh, I guess they make them all sizes? This is like sandwich size.

• 1:05:53Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:05:53Joe Rogan?

  This is, I guess, a snack size. And they make them larger too.

• 1:05:56Speaker 03

  Yeah, and they seal well, you know?

• 1:05:59Joe Rogan?

  Um, that's another question that I had, about sous vide. Um, there's a lot of, uh, people that cook their food in, uh, these sous vide machines.

• 1:06:09Speaker 03

  A lot, really?

• 1:06:09Joe Rogan?

  It's very common. Yeah.

• 1:06:12Speaker 03

  I thought it was kinda high, you know, kind of...

• 1:06:15Joe Rogan?

  In restaurants and stuff? Well, I mean, I know there's consumer versions of it, that, I know a lot of my friends use it.

• 1:06:21Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:06:22Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, they, they use it for wild game, in particular, because you can slow cook. So one of the things about wild game, it has a very low fat content. And a lot of people find that it uh it's more tender if you slowly cook. So let's say if you like medium rare is like, what is medium rare, like one hundred and thirty-five degrees, I think. So you, what you would do is you would take this uh piece of meat and you would seal it up in a vacuum sealed container. And you dunk it in this sous vide machine and it keeps the water at one hundred and thirty-five degrees. You can cook it for several hours at one thirty-five and then you sear the outside of it.

• 1:07:01Speaker 03

  Nice, yeah.

• 1:07:02Joe Rogan?

  And so a lot of people like that and it's really good for breaking down some of the harder stuff. Like, you know, the fascia.

• 1:07:10Speaker 03

  Gristle, yeah.

• 1:07:12Joe Rogan?

  So is that stuff leaking chemicals into your food? It has to be, right?

• 1:07:17Speaker 03

  Why?

• 1:07:17Joe Rogan?

  Well, because it's in plastic. You're getting these vacuum sealed plastic bags that the food goes in. Have you seen how sous vide works?

• 1:07:25Speaker 03

  You have to put it in plastic?

• 1:07:26Joe Rogan?

  Yes. Have you seen how these sous vide things work?

• 1:07:28Speaker 03

  No, then it's bad. Then it sounds just as bad as microwaving in plastic.

• 1:07:32Joe Rogan?

  Right, so what you do with sous vide is you season the food. And a lot of times uh you'll add like olive oil and things like that to the outside of it.

• 1:07:41Speaker 03

  You couldn't make it out of silicone?

• 1:07:43Joe Rogan?

  I would imagine you could, right? I don't know. Let's find that out. Has anybody made uh silicone based sous vide bags? And do these sous vide bags leach chemicals?

• 1:07:56Speaker 04

  I just saw a discussion on Reddit about this, but they didn't really have an answer. Like they're asking if the temperatures might not be high enough. I don't know.

• 1:08:04Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, what are the temperatures that uh you need that start these chemicals leaking into uh from the plastics into your water? Because a lot of times they say, don't leave a bottle of water in your car.

• 1:08:19Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 1:08:19Joe Rogan?

  Because your car can get really hot. So how hot's your car yet? It doesn't get that hot. It doesn't get like cooking hot. So it's like, what is?

• 1:08:28Speaker 03

  But if the sous vide bags don't have plasticizers in them, like if they're made of silicone. You know, food base, food, what is it? Food grade silicone.

• 1:08:39Speaker 04

  Yeah, it's similar.

• 1:08:40Joe Rogan?

  So it says, "We use vacuum sealed bags, really going through them right now, even on our early sous vide. I tried silicone, reusable, and I wasn't happy. I don't really recall why. I think it was hard to get stuff in without a mess." Okay, that doesn't make any sense. Just deal with the mess. We made a switch to vacuum bags. I love it, but oof, we use a lot of bags. Okay. Put this into perplexity, please. Do sous vide bags leach endocrine-disrupting chemicals into your food when you cook with them? Let's try that. See? We're learning things.

• 1:09:16Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:09:17Speaker 04

  Doesn't it have, does it have to be vacuum sealed?

• 1:09:18Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 1:09:19Speaker 04

  Probably, right? Because you don't want water leaking in there?

• 1:09:21Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. You don't want water leaking in. The one, I have a machine, like, and I use this vacuum sealed machine, like, so if I get wild game, and then I cut it up into pieces, and then I, I seal it in these vacuum sealed bags to freeze it. Silicone-based sous vide bags are generally considered safe for food use and do not significantly leach, significantly is a weird word, leach harmful chemicals under typical cooking conditions. High-quality, food-grade silicone is inert, BPA-free. Right. This is silicone, though. Food-grade silicone shows minimal chemical migration, such as siloxanes, especially compared

• 1:10:02Joe Rogan?

  to plastics, can release microplastics like BPA. This is a silicone, though. When you, what is it? What was the question that you asked? How'd you phrase it?

• 1:10:13Speaker 03

  Well, you were asking about sous vide bags.

• 1:10:15Joe Rogan?

  Okay, you write silicone-based sous vide bags. Just let's, not silicone-based, just like, plastic sous vide bags.

• 1:10:23Speaker 03

  Well, you know they're gonna leach stuff.

• 1:10:25Joe Rogan?

  Let's find out. Regular, plastic sous vide bags. Let's see what it says.

• 1:10:35Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:10:37Joe Rogan?

  But I want to make sure that's vacuum sealed sous vide bags.

• 1:10:40Speaker 04

  It should note that we're talking about sous vide bags here.

• 1:10:44Joe Rogan?

  Regular plastic bags can be reasonably, I don't like that word, safe for sous vide if you use the right kind, food grade, BPA, and phthalate free, and rated for hot food. But all plastics can leak some chemicals, and the data specific to sous vide is still limited. What regular bags are safe? Look for bags made with polyethylene and/or polypropylene that are labeled food grade and microwave safe. Is there a plastic that's microwave safe, though? Is that real? Are these are considered- Yeah, these are considered safe with food up to around 190 to 195 Fahrenheit. Most brands zipper bags, Ziploc, Glad, are polyethylene, BPA, and dioxin-free,

• 1:11:28Joe Rogan?

  and are commonly used for sous vide at typical temperatures below 176. Purpose-made vacuum sealer or boil-in sous vide pouches, that's what I use, are specifically certified as food grade for cooking and are the safest plastic option if you want disposable. So it seems like it's reasonably safe to do that. A review by Utah's Department of Health notes that there's a lack of studies directly measuring chemical leaching from sous vide bags, but recommends using FDA-compliant, BPA, and phthalate-free plastics, which are not known for estrogenic activity and are considered safe for food contact. Okay.

• 1:12:11Joe Rogan?

  Hmm. It says trout, see it says there? One trout study found detectable BPA in fish cooked. But the problem is, food, like, here's the problem. Freshwater lakes, if you're catching a trout in a freshwater lake, freshwater lakes have horrible levels of these chemicals in them. And most people do not recommend eating food from freshwater lakes, which is so crazy. You think, "Oh, I'm gonna go catch a fish from a lake. This is gonna be really healthy, it's right from nature." Uh-uh. No, we've ruined lakes.

• 1:12:49Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, what it, like, what is the issue, put this in, what is the issue with eating fish from freshwater lakes in America? What are the health issues?

• 1:12:59Speaker 03

  Health issues, yeah.

• 1:13:00Joe Rogan?

  Eating fish from freshwater lakes in America? We've looked this up before, it's kinda stunning how much chemicals you get from a single fish that you would catch. So if you catch a trout from, you know, a regular lake, you go to a lake, it looks clean, I can see the bottom, everything's fine. No, it's bad for you. In fact, I know a guy who is friends with someone who does a lot of fishing tournaments. So he goes to these fishing tournaments, catches a lot of fish, he eats a lot of fish, obviously. He got horribly, horribly sick because of heavy metal poisoning.

• 1:13:34Speaker 03

  Isn't that terrible?

• 1:13:35Joe Rogan?

  Crazy. You think, you're eating fresh fish that you've caught yourself, it's gotta be good, right?

• 1:13:41Speaker 03

  And it's gotta be bad for the fish.

• 1:13:43Joe Rogan?

  Eating US freshwater fish can expose you to chemical contaminants like mercury and PFAS, and if eaten undercooked or raw, to parasites and some bacteria. Most people can still eat freshwater fish safely if they follow local advisories and avoid high-risk groups, pregnant people, young children, eating too much. Main chemical risks, mercury, methylmercury, nearly all wild fish contain some mercury, but levels in many US freshwater fish can be high enough to harm a fetus or a young child's developing brain and nervous system if eaten often. That's crazy. PFAS, forever chemicals, many US freshwater fish have measurable PFAS and in some studies

• 1:14:25Joe Rogan?

  show widespread PFAS plus mercury in fish tissue at levels that pose health risks for frequent consumers. PFAS exposure's been linked to changes in liver and kidney function, cholesterol, immune response, pregnancy complications, and increased risk of certain cancers.

• 1:14:40Speaker 03

  I don't know why they haven't mentioned autoimmune, immune response, oh, they do say immune, immune response, yes.

• 1:14:47Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, immune response.

• 1:14:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, this guy in Denmark studied people on the Faroe Islands, which, they all eat fish, they catch them, you know, the Faroe Islands, and they catch them there, and so he looked at the levels of PFAS, and then he looked at their antibody response to vaccination.

• 1:15:07Speaker 03

  Down. And so, think of what that means in, you know, like it's time of COVID or whatever. I want to do an intervention where we take kids who are getting PFOS-free school uniforms. Remember I told you PFOS was in school uniforms? And then, when they come in at age six, for their first, you know, grade, they will have just had their booster, so then we could get their blood and see if the booster, you know, antibody levels were lower in the kids that had the PFOS uniforms versus the clean uniform.

• 1:15:45Joe Rogan?

  Booster for which vaccines?

• 1:15:47Speaker 03

  Um, mumps, pertussis, MMP, I think is.

• 1:15:53Joe Rogan?

  Okay. This episode is brought to you by LifeLock. Scams have gotten smarter because criminals use AI to flood you with fake texts, emails, and phone calls that are designed to be more convincing than ever. One wrong click can put your personal information and your identity at risk, so protect yourself with LifeLock. LifeLock helps detect and alert you to threats, and if your identity is stolen, LifeLock will step in to fix it, guaranteed or your money back. Dedicated, US-based, identity restoration specialists will work with you until your identity is restored, backed by the million-dollar protection package with up to $3 million in coverage for eligible losses and expenses.

• 1:16:36Joe Rogan?

  Visit lifelock.com and save up to 30% your first year with the promo code JRE. That's promo code JRE, or go to lifelock.com/jre for 30% off. Terms apply. This episode is brought to you by Tacovus. All right, seriously, if you're looking for new boots or shoes this summer, you gotta check out Tacovus. These guys make some super durable and handmade boots. Besides being incredibly comfortable right out of the box, they've also got some great slip-ons, perfect for casual summer Fridays. Their stuff is built to last and made for long, hot months.

• 1:17:17Joe Rogan?

  And they look great with everything from jeans to khakis to linen suits. Dress them up or down. Plus, they've got tons of options from classic leathers to exotic hides. Whatever lights your fire. So whether it's your first pair or your fifteenth, you gotta check out Tacovas in store or online at tacovas.com. That's T E C O V A S dot com. And right now, get 10% off at tacovas.com/rogan when you sign up for email and text. And so it's lower, it's a lower response if your body's been exposed to these chemicals.

• 1:18:00Joe Rogan?

  So you would imagine even if you're not, you're just lower response period to all immune function based on this.

• 1:18:07Speaker 03

  Right, right.

• 1:18:09Joe Rogan?

  What is these, these things?

• 1:18:10Speaker 03

  Lufa mitts. So you can use them to scrub your sink and, or your face.

• 1:18:15Joe Rogan?

  I use them in the shower.

• 1:18:15Speaker 03

  Yeah, or in the shower.

• 1:18:16Joe Rogan?

  But you should use those for your food too.

• 1:18:18Speaker 03

  The sponges that you, most people use have a lot of chemicals in them.

• 1:18:22Joe Rogan?

  Of course, makes sense.

• 1:18:24Speaker 03

  So, these are better.

• 1:18:25Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, they're plastic sponges. And you get them in hot water and you're scrubbing things and some of the stuff probably gets in your plates and your food and your cooking ware. What else we got here? Bee's wrap.

• 1:18:40Speaker 03

  That's really nice stuff.

• 1:18:41Joe Rogan?

  What is this stuff?

• 1:18:43Speaker 03

  Actually, you can treat, this is some kind of paper that's been treated with beeswax. So nothing dirty there. And take it out, you'll see how nice it is.

• 1:18:53Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 1:18:57Speaker 03

  I love this stuff, I have a lot of it.

• 1:19:00Joe Rogan?

  So you feel the wax?

• 1:19:02Speaker 03

  That's the wax.

• 1:19:03Joe Rogan?

  Oh, okay, so you use that to wrap your, your food with?

• 1:19:07Speaker 03

  Yeah, and it seals on itself. And you just rinse it out afterwards.

• 1:19:12Joe Rogan?

  Oh, nice.

• 1:19:13Speaker 03

  So you don't have to use Saran Wrap and, you know, all these.

• 1:19:16Joe Rogan?

  It does seal on itself.

• 1:19:17Speaker 03

  Oh, nice, yeah.

• 1:19:18Joe Rogan?

  It seems like the form fits around things like plates and stuff.

• 1:19:20Speaker 03

  You can put it on an egg, or tomato, or anything you want.

• 1:19:23Joe Rogan?

  Well, with my friend Phillip, I guarantee he eats a lot of sushi. He runs a sushi place, and if you ever go to a sushi place, all the fish is wrapped in plastic.

• 1:19:31Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:19:31Joe Rogan?

  They're always wrapped in plastic, and then they cut it open, and so there's exposure to all this stuff.

• 1:19:36Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:19:37Joe Rogan?

  You, you should use this stuff.

• 1:19:38Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:19:39Joe Rogan?

  Probably has the same level of sealing as plastic does.

• 1:19:41Speaker 03

  Might be more expensive, though. Yeah.

• 1:19:44Joe Rogan?

  What's your health worth?

• 1:19:45Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:19:46Joe Rogan?

  But it's also reusable, which plastic isn't.

• 1:19:48Speaker 03

  Oh, absolutely, just, just wash it, yeah.

• 1:19:50Joe Rogan?

  That's the thing, it's like, it's probably economical in the long run.

• 1:19:53Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:19:53Joe Rogan?

  Because, plastic wrap, you don't reuse, unless you're a psycho.

• 1:19:56Speaker 03

  And it gets all over the, the world, and.

• 1:19:59Joe Rogan?

  Right, everywhere. I'm sure you've seen the, uh, Pacific Garbage Patch, which is crazy, right? Um, these are bags, and these bags are called Wowie, W-O-W-E. Right, and what is this?

• 1:20:17Speaker 03

  It's another food storage, you know, choice, option.

• 1:20:20Joe Rogan?

  It's paper, or, no, no, it's, um, cloth.

• 1:20:24Speaker 03

  Cloth, but clean cloth, yeah.

• 1:20:26Joe Rogan?

  And so you use this?

• 1:20:27Speaker 03

  Like, for bread, it's really good, bread, cookies, you know, stuff like that.

• 1:20:31Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 1:20:32Speaker 03

  Yeah, we use those, yeah.

• 1:20:34Joe Rogan?

  And so, is this all, all these different products listed on your website, so people can?

• 1:20:40Speaker 03

  They're listed on the Million Marker, there's a ca- a can there, a card there to scan the QR code, and you can go to that.

• 1:20:49Joe Rogan?

  And, um, but it would be nice if it was like a one, so, if you scan the QR code, is there a one-stop shop? Like, people listening to this right now, can we send them to a website that could? What, what website would that be?

• 1:21:00Speaker 03

  I don't, I can't remember, look at the card.

• 1:21:05Joe Rogan?

  This one, Tips for a Detox Journey. So this is, uh, the QR, so if I scan this right now, it'll tell, take me there?

• 1:21:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:21:13Joe Rogan?

  That's my phone.

• 1:21:16Joe Rogan?

  This world that we live in. We're not ready.

• 1:21:22Joe Rogan?

  Okay, it says, the website is millionmarker.com.

• 1:21:30Joe Rogan?

  Chemical glossary. So this is the chemical glossary that's on this card, but it doesn't.

• 1:21:36Speaker 03

  Not the products, right?

• 1:21:38Joe Rogan?

  It doesn't say the products. It says partners, is that?

• 1:21:41Speaker 03

  So there's products on that other website I told you, Unplastic Your Life.

• 1:21:47Joe Rogan?

  UnplasticYourLife.com. So that's a place where people can go and see these products? Here it is.

• 1:21:53Speaker 03

  So there's three steps. UnplasticYourLife.com, Action Hub, Protect Yourself. And then it can tell you how to protect yourself against various things in different rooms. I have it by rooms, I think.

• 1:22:04Joe Rogan?

  What is this one, Jamie? This one says?

• 1:22:06Speaker 04

  This is the same website. I just already went to the Action Hub.

• 1:22:09Joe Rogan?

  Oh, so when you go to UnplasticYourLife.com, it takes you to OSP society?

• 1:22:16Speaker 04

  Yeah, it redirects to this website.

• 1:22:17Joe Rogan?

  Got it. And then go to the Action Hub, Protect Your Family. And then are the products listed down there? Okay, yeah, there it is. Okay, single, okay. Nonplastic bags, nonsteel cookware. Got it. Replace the plastic cutting boards with wood. So I think some people use titanium, which is fine too, right? And then what above that? What's above that?

• 1:22:45Joe Rogan?

  Steel, single-use drinking water containers. Never use plastics to store your food in. Never heat plastics.

• 1:22:53Joe Rogan?

  Holy. Save your skin by selecting personal care products with natural ingredients, such in glass or tin packaging. Boy. So disturbing.

• 1:23:05Speaker 03

  Washing your clothes.

• 1:23:06Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm. Yeah.

• 1:23:10Speaker 03

  By the way, we didn't talk about smell.

• 1:23:12Joe Rogan?

  Smell.

• 1:23:13Speaker 03

  But everything that's fragranced has phthalates.

• 1:23:16Joe Rogan?

  Of course.

• 1:23:17Speaker 03

  And, you know, like, you think you're doing good if you hang that little pine tree in your car.

• 1:23:24Joe Rogan?

  Not good?

• 1:23:25Speaker 03

  Not good.

• 1:23:27Speaker 03

  And, and you plug in things in the wall that's supposed to clean up your air and, you know, refresh your air and so on, not good.

• 1:23:35Joe Rogan?

  There's ones that are in cars now, like, certain cars. I think Mercedes has one where you refill it and you can, it actually will spray air freshener through the vents. Does Mercedes do that? I think it's Mercedes, which makes sense, you know, luxury. I want to smell like lavender as I'm driving. Ah, look at me in my luxurious car smelling lavender, dying of chemical exposure.

• 1:24:02Speaker 03

  We asked women on this, you know, our study, we said, "What do you use?" And then we said, "Was it fragranced?" And anything where they said that was fragranced, their body burden of phthalates was higher.

• 1:24:15Joe Rogan?

  Of course. What about natural deodorants?

• 1:24:19Speaker 03

  I don't know.

• 1:24:20Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, because I use natural deodorant to try to avoid a lot of that stuff.

• 1:24:25Speaker 04

  On the product for it on the website, it says it's a miscellaneous dangerous good, I think. I don't know what that is.

• 1:24:32Joe Rogan?

  What? It says miscellaneous dangerous goods?

• 1:24:35Speaker 04

  Maybe it's when they ship it or something.

• 1:24:36Joe Rogan?

  Other dangerous substances. The interior of the vehicle can be fragranced, it says it right there. This is under Mercedes, under their smell. Aroma system, Pacific mood. Ooh, I want a Pacific mood. I'm living on the coast. I'm fabulous. And it says miscellaneous dangerous goods, other dangerous substances. That's crazy that it's labeled that way. The interior of the vehicle can be fragranced to suit your own individual preference with the air balance package. Flacon Pacific Mood Lemon and Orange Top Notes accompanied by a blend of spices. Ah, but meanwhile.

• 1:25:18Joe Rogan?

  It's probably not good for you. So what is in there? They're engineered specifically, does it say what? They're also subject to rigorous testing, which means each part comes fully certified. In the end, you can be sure that your vehicle will perform up to its potential, mile after mile.

• 1:25:32Speaker 04

  See what this word meant, I don't know if you want to try this.

• 1:25:34Joe Rogan?

  Whoa. Can you say that word, doctor?

• 1:25:38Speaker 03

  Oh, no.

• 1:25:39Joe Rogan?

  Gif-far-gud-ten-ken-ziken.

• 1:25:44Speaker 04

  I'm guessing it means miscellaneous dangerous goods, but.

• 1:25:46Joe Rogan?

  But why, I mean, why the? Other dangerous, they're calling it dangerous? That sounds really crazy.

• 1:25:53Speaker 03

  Miscellaneous dangerous goods.

• 1:25:54Joe Rogan?

  They're like hazard warnings. This is crazy, like, why, but why would they say that?

• 1:25:59Speaker 03

  Put it on their website, yeah.

• 1:26:00Joe Rogan?

  And then you're spraying it and you're breathing it in.

• 1:26:03Speaker 04

  It could be very well like one of those California rules where they say like, this building has got dangerous chemicals that could cause cancer in people and it like has to be on everything.

• 1:26:10Speaker 03

  Oh, this is a term, yeah.

• 1:26:11Joe Rogan?

  But it's just weird that that's in the actual stuff that you breathe in and smell. You know, I've heard another thing that's really bad for you is incense.

• 1:26:22Speaker 03

  Probably varies with the, you know, what's in it. I wouldn't blanket all incense, I don't, I haven't studied that, so.

• 1:26:30Joe Rogan?

  Well, let's put that into perplexity. Because I know candles are bad for you. Scented candles, in particular.

• 1:26:37Speaker 03

  Scented, yes, yes, there's their aroma again.

• 1:26:39Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:40Speaker 03

  See, one of the things that phthalates do is they cause something to hold scent. Retain scent, so they're put into perfume and they're put into makeup and they're put into, you know, the things you put on your wall and, and so, you know, you, you want something to smell for a long time, you're gonna use phthalates.

• 1:26:59Joe Rogan?

  It says, burning incense products, smoking chemicals that can irritate your lungs, worsen asthma and allergies, and with heavy long-term use in poorly ventilated spaces, may increase risks for heart disease and some cancers.

• 1:27:15Joe Rogan?

  You know, you think incense, you go over someone's house, they do yoga, they eat vegan, they burn incense, they must be healthy.

• 1:27:22Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:27:23Joe Rogan?

  Um, long-term health risks, repeated long-term exposure, daily for years, been associated in studies with increased risk of bronchitis, reduced lung function in children, and chronic respiratory symptoms in workers heavily exposed to temple incense. God. Epidemiological studies, mostly in Asian populations with heavy daily use, have linked long-term incense exposure to higher rates of cardiovascular problems, hypertension, coronary artery disease, stroke, chronic limb, what's that word?

• 1:27:55Speaker 03

  ischemia.

• 1:27:56Joe Rogan?

  Ischemia, what's that mean? What does ischemia mean? That can't be good. Sounds terrible. What is ischemia? What is ischemia? Huh. Uh, lack of blood flow to part of a body, usually because of an artery is narrowed or blocked. Severe or prolonged, the affected tissue can be damaged or die. Oh, great. Oh, wonderful. So, you, you, you think about incense, you think like healthy, natural people. Oh, they burn incense, it sounds lovely, it sounds like they're spiritual. Ah, incense. I used to love incense. I used to use it all the time.

• 1:28:40Joe Rogan?

  Thought it was cool. Made you like, you know, be more peaceful. Incense. Bad for you. Everything's bad for you. You know what's bad for you? These straws, if you trip with them. You know, a lot of people have died, these are metal straws.

• 1:28:55Speaker 03

  Really?

• 1:28:56Joe Rogan?

  They've died because they're on their phone and they're not paying attention, they stub their toe and fall, and this thing goes through their eyeball and they die.

• 1:29:02Speaker 03

  Oh, shoot.

• 1:29:03Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:04Speaker 03

  Okay. I won't recommend that.

• 1:29:06Joe Rogan?

  But also, you could die just falling. I mean, if you're falling and you're holding a steel straw, throw it to the side. That's my advice.

• 1:29:15Speaker 03

  So, if you want to do this, little experiment of one that we're talking about.

• 1:29:19Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 1:29:20Speaker 03

  And of one, unless Jamie wants to do it too.

• 1:29:22Joe Rogan?

  Jamie's in. Look at him. He's down.

• 1:29:26Speaker 03

  Then Jenna or somebody on her team, if you had an hour, half an hour, I don't know how long it took, call you, said, ask you, what did you use, what did you use, what did you use for this, this, this, this, right? And then they'll recommend what to change.

• 1:29:44Joe Rogan?

  Right. I recently underwent this plasmapheresis thing.

• 1:29:48Speaker 03

  I know.

• 1:29:49Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. And that's supposed to remove a lot of that stuff from your blood, correct? So my, I'll tell you what, the next day, I was very tired that day, like exhausted that day. But the next day afterwards, I felt like lighter. I felt like, whoa, this is crazy. I felt like I had more energy. It was like, kind of late at night, I was like, I'm not tired at all, this is weird. Like, I felt different, you know?

• 1:30:12Speaker 03

  So that would be great. Are you gonna do it again?

• 1:30:16Joe Rogan?

  Uh, no, I just did it. I mean, I would do it again, but I just did it a few days ago.

• 1:30:20Speaker 03

  I was just wondering, you know, if you measured chemicals in your urine before you did that.

• 1:30:26Joe Rogan?

  I should have done that.

• 1:30:27Speaker 03

  And then after that.

• 1:30:28Joe Rogan?

  I don't have any pee laying around from before.

• 1:30:30Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:30:31Joe Rogan?

  But I could do it now, and maybe I have very low levels, and we could attribute that to, because I, I haven't done the best job, well, like I said, I did get rid of my plastic coffee machine at home. I did that about three or four weeks ago. One of the things that's done is it's made my morning coffee a lot harder to get. It's more of like a ritual now, because I, I use a steel water boiler thing that heats it up to 200 degrees, and then I have a steel French press, and I grind the beans in a steel thing, right? And then I pour the beans in the French press, and it takes 15 minutes rather than 30 seconds.

• 1:31:16Speaker 03

  And how does it taste?

• 1:31:17Joe Rogan?

  It tastes way better. Well, I'm a big coffee drinker. I love coffee, but I like it black. Like, I love the flavor of coffee.

• 1:31:23Speaker 03

  Yeah, me too.

• 1:31:24Joe Rogan?

  I really do. And so, it just tastes better. It tastes, French press, I think, is the best way to drink coffee, anyway. And so I kind of decided, like, why am I, I'm avoiding all these microplastics, I don't drink out of plastic or paper cups, I do all these different things, why am I still using a plastic coffee machine? I look at that thing every morning, and I was like, yeah, but it's gonna give me coffee right now, so, I press the button, get my coffee right now. Then I was like, that's stupid. So now I just, I only use something like this.

• 1:31:52Speaker 03

  Cool.

• 1:31:53Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. So I'd be interested to see if maybe I have low levels, uh, because I certainly feel like my body, um, it felt refreshed, like I had less inflammation. You know, but that's like a two-hour procedure, it's a pain in the butt, you know, you gotta sit there for two hours, you look like a psycho, you know, like, I should have taken a photo of what I looked like while I was doing it, cause I was laying there and I had like cords in this arm and cords in that arm, so I had blood coming out of that arm and going back into that arm, it's really kinda nutty.

• 1:32:28Speaker 03

  How expensive?

• 1:32:29Joe Rogan?

  I don't know.

• 1:32:30Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 1:32:31Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I don't know, um, but I'm sure it's not cheap.

• 1:32:35Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:32:35Joe Rogan?

  But the, the benefits of it in terms of like the people that I know that have done it said it's a game changer, in terms of your recovery, marked recovery levels, uh, much better sleep, like if you're wearing an aura ring or a whoop strap or something along those lines, you get much better recovery. And I think that's probably the case with me, I feel pretty good.

• 1:32:56Joe Rogan?

  But I do a lot of stuff, you know, I do a lot of things to maximize my health, so it's really kinda difficult to know like what's doing what.

• 1:33:02Speaker 03

  What's doing what, yeah.

• 1:33:03Joe Rogan?

  I just know all in all.

• 1:33:04Speaker 03

  You know, we always say, you know, in my field, you know, do one thing at a time.

• 1:33:08Joe Rogan?

  Right, of course, if you're doing science.

• 1:33:10Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:33:11Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I'm not, I'm not doing science, I'm doing chaos.

• 1:33:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:33:16Speaker 03

  Well, you're doing, you know, you're experiment of one, so, yeah, yeah.

• 1:33:20Joe Rogan?

  But it works, all of it together is definitely working, my body's pretty good.

• 1:33:24Speaker 03

  So you know, you were mentioning how it's gonna be very hard to get these things regulated, and I just wanted to point out, we probably talked about this last time, but, you know, where do these chemicals come from, these plasticizers, and you probably know they're made from fossil fuel byproducts, yes?

• 1:33:46Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:47Speaker 03

  So, the forces against eliminating them are, are not only the manufacturers of the plastic, but it's also the fossil fuel industry.

• 1:33:58Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:33:58Speaker 03

  So that makes it extremely difficult.

• 1:34:01Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:34:01Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:34:02Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and it's probably one of the primary factors in why this isn't discussed, because it would reduce fossil fuel consumption, which would affect oil markets, which would affect the economy.

• 1:34:14Speaker 03

  It's big, it's big, yeah.

• 1:34:16Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:17Speaker 03

  But I mean, the rate at which plastic production is increasing is astounding, you know?

• 1:34:23Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 1:34:23Speaker 03

  And no end in sight.

• 1:34:26Joe Rogan?

  This episode is brought to you by The Farmer's Dog. Here's a fun fact. Research shows that dogs who maintain a healthy weight can live up to two and a half years longer on average than dogs who are overweight. Isn't that wild and also kind of obvious at the same time? So why is feeding vague scoops of ultra-processed kibble still the status quo for most dog owners? Healthy alternatives exist, and trust me, I know. I buy one, The Farmer's Dog. I use it for both my dogs. They love it. They eat it up quick. It smells good to them. It smells good to me. It's human-grade food. The Farmer's Dog makes fresh food for dogs, and my dogs love it. Their recipes are made with real meat and fresh vegetables

• 1:35:09Joe Rogan?

  that are gently cooked to retain vital nutrients. They also portion out the meals to your dog's nutritional needs, which helps avoid overfeeding and makes weight management easier. And isn't getting more time with our four-legged best friends something every dog owner wants? The answer to that is yes, obviously. So try The Farmer's Dog today and get 50% off your first box of fresh, healthy food. Plus, get free shipping. Just go to thefarmersdog.com/rogan. This offer is for new customers only. This episode is brought to you by Noco, your miles from home. You turn the key, nothing, dead battery. Normally, that means finding another car, someone willing to give you a jump,

• 1:35:53Joe Rogan?

  and dealing with old jumper cables. But what if you didn't need any of that? Keep a Noco portable jump starter in your glove box and jump-start your car yourself. No cables, no second vehicle, no waiting for help. It also works as a power bank and has a built-in LED flashlight. Noco, the end of jumper cables. Use code ROGEN10 for 10% off. Select jump starters at N-O dot C-O.

• 1:36:23Joe Rogan?

  Well, I don't think you're gonna get the government to act about this stuff. I think this has to be done on an individual level where people are aware of it and take steps to protect themselves and their family from these issues. That's my cynical view of how this is going to be played out. And I'm really hoping, I know for a fact, a lot of people listened to our last conversation and made some lifestyle changes. I'm really hoping that now, with this follow-up visit, more and more people will be aware of

• 1:36:53Speaker 03

  And watching the movie.

• 1:36:53Joe Rogan?

  Yes, and watching the movie. And the movie's called, what's it called again?

• 1:36:57Speaker 03

  The Plastic Detox.

• 1:36:59Joe Rogan?

  The Plastic Detox.

• 1:37:00Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:37:01Joe Rogan?

  And where is this movie available?

• 1:37:02Speaker 03

  On your, in your house.

• 1:37:04Joe Rogan?

  Right, but is it available on Amazon, Netflix? It's Netflix, okay. Watch on Netflix is great.

• 1:37:10Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:37:11Joe Rogan?

  There's so many great documentaries on Netflix. The Hidden Dangers of Plastics in Our Homes. Six Couples Embark on a Plastic Detox Within Their Homes. It Changes Their Families Forever. The Plastic Detox explains what microplastics and their chemicals are doing to our health and how we can take matters into our own hands. From hormone disruption that's fueling a worldwide fertility crisis to growing rates of cancer and early heart attack and stroke. This powerful documentary reveals the shocking science behind plastics' impact on human life.

• 1:37:41Speaker 03

  Do you want to see a little trailer?

• 1:37:42Joe Rogan?

  Sure. Let's watch a little trailer. Put your headphones on. Well, you already know what it says.

• 1:37:47Speaker 00

  Plastic leaches a crap-ton of chemicals.

• 1:37:50Speaker 05

  Even the smallest levels of exposure can have profound effects.

• 1:37:56Speaker 00

  Fertility worldwide is going down. There you are. And it is tightly linked to chemicals that are commonly used in plastic. You have been trying to get pregnant for over 10 years now. 22 months. Two and a half years. Say what you always call yourself.

• 1:38:13Speaker 06

  Ah, I say, you know, Julie, I'm not a human dildo.

• 1:38:17Speaker 00

  This is a three-month intervention where we recruited six couples who have unexplained infertility.

• 1:38:25Speaker 03

  We look at measures of semen quality. The cutoff for fertile is about 40. You're technically subfertile, infertile, so that's kind of scary, right?

• 1:38:34Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 1:38:38Speaker 03

  The question is if we lower people's exposure to chemicals that are in plastic, can we change their fertility? These chemicals not only affect your fertility, they also have other health consequences.

• 1:38:53Speaker 05

  These chemicals can contribute to early heart attacks and stroke, autism, as well as obesity.

• 1:39:00Speaker 07

  Learning more about plastics, it's opening my eyes to how much bigger it is.

• 1:39:05Speaker 03

  Many people think the government takes care of us, but very few chemicals are actually banned from personal care products, and over 1,100 are banned in the EU. To have a child, I believe it is a fundamental human right.

• 1:39:22Speaker 06

  I think you'd be the best mom ever, and I really want to see that for you. Plastic doesn't have to come from a toxic petroleum-based material. We can learn to do it other ways.

• 1:39:34Speaker 03

  It can change, and you can help with the change.

• 1:39:37Joe Rogan?

  That's another good point that he just said right there, that plastic doesn't have to come from petroleum-based materials. And most people aren't aware of that, but you can make plastic out of plant compounds, and it's biodegradable. Which is like, they make hemp plastic.

• 1:39:56Speaker 03

  Potatoes.

• 1:39:57Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, potatoes. Yeah, and probably a bunch of other stuff too, right? That you can make plastic out of that doesn't have these effects.

• 1:40:05Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:40:06Joe Rogan?

  It would be really nice if we moved in that direction, wouldn't it?

• 1:40:09Speaker 03

  Absolutely, absolutely. The plant-based plastics have the cost of raising the plants, of course. There's that added cost.

• 1:40:17Joe Rogan?

  Right, but does that even compare to the cost of pulling oil out of the ground and refining it, and then turning it into plastic through some horrific process that turns the rivers blue?

• 1:40:28Speaker 03

  And God knows what color it turns us.

• 1:40:32Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:40:33Speaker 03

  Just kidding.

• 1:40:34Joe Rogan?

  Is there a list of garments that people shouldn't wear? Are you aware of that, the plastic leaching garments?

• 1:40:43Speaker 03

  Well, the only specific ones I know are...

• 1:40:47Speaker 03

  Because people have told me about them are the sports uniforms, team uniforms.

• 1:40:52Joe Rogan?

  Because they have a coating on them.

• 1:40:53Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:40:54Joe Rogan?

  Is it to make them more durable, is that the idea?

• 1:40:57Speaker 03

  And probably this book, To Die For, will have more information. And I have it and I read, I'm just so busy, you know, with this right now and, but I'm gonna read it. And, and then, um, sports uniforms, kids' uniforms, airline personnel uniforms. I think uniforms, firefighters, firefighters are big, big exposure to these chemicals, too.

• 1:41:23Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:41:24Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:41:24Joe Rogan?

  Because they wear those waterproof.

• 1:41:26Speaker 03

  Yeah. Anything with it, yeah, that's right, anything that's waterproof, stain-proofed, just like your Teflon pants, you know.

• 1:41:32Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:41:32Speaker 03

  Barrier, yeah.

• 1:41:33Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:41:34Speaker 03

  Yeah. So, yeah, but I don't know any particular brands.

• 1:41:39Joe Rogan?

  So I'd imagine like nylon tracksuits and all those different things, gotta be terrible for you.

• 1:41:44Speaker 03

  I mean, customers, customers could look for, when they buy these things, they could look for PFOS-free. Just like now people know to look for BPA-free or, you know, if they could look at PFOS-free, then they would be avoiding a lot of this.

• 1:41:58Joe Rogan?

  So go back to the top, please. Says the worst offenders are synthetic, plastic-heavy garments that are fuzzy, coated, or very tight to the skin, especially polyester fleece, recycled polyester fast fashion, and PFOS-coated, water-stained repellent outerwear and activewear. Polyester fleece jackets, blankets, loungewear, extremely high microfiber shedding. One study found that polyester fleece shedding orders of magnitude more fibers per wash than other knits, which estimates around 110,000 fibers per garment per wash. This is both bad for environmental plastic pollution and for indoor dust and air. Oy. Recycled polyester fast fashion like leggings, tees, dresses, and sportswear.

• 1:42:43Joe Rogan?

  New testing shows recycled polyester garments shed far, shed more and finer microfibers than virgin polyester. Interesting. So you'd think recycled, oh, I'm recycling, I'm a good person. No, you're killing yourself. Increased particle numbers and potential toxicity. These items are often cheaply made, shed heavily in washing, and frequently use intense dyes and finishes. Hot pink!

• 1:43:11Joe Rogan?

  Tight synthetic sportswear and underwear. Yikes. These are worn for long periods directly against sweaty skin and mucous membranes, increasing opportunity for contact with microplastics and additives like antimony, phthalates, and PFAS finishes. Cheap synthetic performance or wrinkle-free fashion, stain-resistant, easy care, anti-odor, and heavy print coating garments are more likely to use chemical finishes that can off-gas or leach on top of the base synthetic fiber issues. Hooey. Lower-concern choices. Okay, not perfect but generally less problematic for leaching and microplastic shedding.

• 1:43:52Joe Rogan?

  Undyed or lightly dyed natural fibers like cotton, linen, wool, hemp, silk without stain-resistant or wrinkle-free finishes. Simple weaves, knits, rather than fluffy or brushed surfaces, which shed less. PFAS-free rain gear and outdoor clothing. Brands now often as... What, what, what rain gear is PFAS-free? That's interesting because I've always thought that, like, has to be coated.

• 1:44:20Speaker 03

  Right. Oof, a lot of work, a lot of work, huh?

• 1:44:25Joe Rogan?

  What has been the response to your... First of all, you're releasing your first book and then coming on podcasts and talking about this thing. Has it been surprising to you? Like, what has it been like?

• 1:44:39Speaker 03

  It has been kind of surprising how much interest there is and how much, you know, people are taking this up. And what's great is there are a lot of nonprofits that are in the space that are getting out these messages. So it's not just me, you know, many, many nonprofits. And then there's the, you know, there's the Plastics Treaty, which is worldwide. It didn't pass, but hopefully it'll come back and maybe next time. And then there's the work that the EU is doing, which is miles ahead of us. For example, I think I might have said this before, but just...

• 1:45:22Speaker 03

  So in Europe, you... If you're going to put a new chemical into commerce, you have to... It has to pass certain tests to be safe.

• 1:45:33Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:45:34Speaker 03

  Not here.

• 1:45:34Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:45:36Speaker 03

  So, we're, it's, the testing is on you and me and everyone listening. Um, and, I mean, we haven't really raised our hand and volunteered for that.

• 1:45:47Joe Rogan?

  Well, I mean, I don't want this to happen, but I think maybe what has to happen is these companies have to get in trouble. You know?

• 1:45:55Speaker 03

  Well, some of them have, you know, there are lawsuits and, and that's-

• 1:45:58Joe Rogan?

  Are there lawsuits against like outerwear, clothing, like-

• 1:46:01Speaker 03

  I, I don't know, I don't know, but-

• 1:46:01Joe Rogan?

  Yoga pants? Cause yoga pants are a problem, right?

• 1:46:04Speaker 03

  Hmm?

• 1:46:05Joe Rogan?

  Yoga pants.

• 1:46:06Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:46:06Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, those tight nylon things that a lot of the gals wear to-

• 1:46:11Speaker 03

  Yeah, I don't know where the lawsuits are. Um, I might at some point get involved in that, but at this point, I don't know, but I know there are lawsuits and that they can be effective way to push back. And by the way, you said we, we wouldn't get a federal law, and I think that's not for a long time, but states can do it.

• 1:46:29Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 1:46:30Speaker 03

  California, for example, is doing lots of good stuff on that.

• 1:46:32Joe Rogan?

  What are they doing about it?

• 1:46:34Speaker 03

  I can't name you the, the laws, but I know they're, they're very active. Um, the, um, Bonta, Ron Bonta, he's a, he's a district attorney, attorney general of the state of California. He's very active. And, and so the states that have active, you know, pushback, able to get laws passed, um, that kinda sets the tone for the, you know, for, for what's possible. But I don't see us getting federal pushback very soon.

• 1:47:04Joe Rogan?

  No, it seems like industry controls the federal government-

• 1:47:08Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:47:08Joe Rogan?

  More than the cell, the, the health and safety concerns of the people.

• 1:47:13Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:47:13Joe Rogan?

  Which is very disturbing, but not too surprising-

• 1:47:16Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:47:17Joe Rogan?

  When you consider a lot of the other things that are allowed in this country-

• 1:47:20Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:47:20Joe Rogan?

  That aren't allowed in other countries.

• 1:47:21Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:47:22Joe Rogan?

  Like, when you show the list of the chemicals that are illegal in the EU, that are illegal in America, that's disturbing. Like, we're supposed to be number one. We're number one. We're number one in chemicals.

• 1:47:34Speaker 03

  Chemicals.

• 1:47:36Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:47:36Speaker 03

  Probably, probably.

• 1:47:38Joe Rogan?

  The response when you were on this podcast was pretty shocking for me. So many people reached out to me. A lot of my friends that watched the episode were like, I can't believe this. Oh, I have no idea. It was five years ago. But quite a few of my friends that, you know, don't reach out with every episode, reached out and said, that is just nuts. Like, I can't believe this. And especially people with children.

• 1:48:00Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:48:00Joe Rogan?

  And they're concerned about the development of their children or people who are pregnant, who are concerned with the intake of these chemicals while they're pregnant, which has a radical effect on the child's development.

• 1:48:13Speaker 03

  Well.

• 1:48:14Joe Rogan?

  And alligator penises.

• 1:48:14Speaker 03

  If your friends are listening now, I can tell them that it hasn't changed much. It hasn't improved much. And we have to do a lot more.

• 1:48:25Joe Rogan?

  Well.

• 1:48:26Speaker 03

  Personally, and, you know.

• 1:48:27Joe Rogan?

  I hate to say it, but I think, like I said, I don't think the government's gonna do anything. I think it's gotta be up to individuals to make choices. And I'm really hoping your documentary has another big impact. One of the beautiful things about Netflix is that it's, even though things get promoted on Netflix, whenever anything, so many people have Netflix, that when everything, anything's good, a lot of people just start sharing it and start talking about it and posting about it on social media. And then next thing, the conversation starts happening and starts raising awareness. And I really do hope you're gonna go on a bunch of other podcasts as well and talk about this.

• 1:49:05Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 1:49:06Joe Rogan?

  Today is brought to you by the number one brand for better sex, BlueChew. BlueChew Gold is a four-in-one powerhouse that gets your brain and your body on the same page for sex. Two ingredients get the blood flow pumping and two ingredients prime your brain for arousal. No overthinking, just peak performance in as little as 15 minutes. Look at the stats. Gold is three times stronger, five times faster, and eight times longer lasting than old school methods. BlueChew Gold is the real deal. Right now, buy two months of BlueChew Gold and get the third free with my code ROGEN. You'll also receive free overnight shipping. That's promo code ROGEN. Head over to bluechew.com for details and important safety information. Check it out.

• 1:49:51Joe Rogan?

  This ad and the products being advertised are intended for a United States audience. This episode is brought to you by Armra. Every week, there's some new wellness hack that people swear by. And after a while, you start thinking, why do we think we can just outsmart our bodies? That's why Armra colostrum caught my attention. It's something the body already recognizes and it has hundreds of these specialized nutrients for gut stuff, immunity, metabolism, et cetera. I first noticed it working around training, especially workout recovery. Most stuff falls off, but I am still taking this. If you want to try, Armra is offering my listeners 30% off. Go to Armra.com/Rogan.

• 1:50:34Speaker 03

  And there are showings and Netflix encourages that. And I'm going actually all over the world talking at showings now. The schedule is like crazy.

• 1:50:45Joe Rogan?

  Do you ever think like how crazy it is that you're this one person that's sounding the alarm? Because you kind of are the most public face of this problem.

• 1:50:54Speaker 03

  That is a little crazy to me, especially given where I've come from.

• 1:50:58Joe Rogan?

  What if you didn't exist? This is the question.

• 1:51:00Speaker 03

  Oh, there are many, many people pushing back. Many, many.

• 1:51:03Joe Rogan?

  Right, but I don't know if they're doing it as publicly as you are and certainly not. I mean, they haven't been on this podcast.

• 1:51:08Speaker 03

  There are many that are. I, you know, I feel lucky that I've had this many, like you're, like speaking to you and your followers and other podcasts and, and then having the opportunity to have designed this intervention and have worked with Louis and others on the film team to put this forward. It's a very big thing. And you know, the film costs a lot of money and we had worldwide support for putting this out. So there's a lot of support behind the pushback and we just have to get everybody on board and just say, no, I'm not going to use that stuff.

• 1:51:46Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's, that's really what has to happen. The conversation has to increase. The volume has to increase. More people have to share it and talk about it and more people have to have you on. And, you know, we just have to sound the alarm. It's, it's kind of crazy that five years later, nothing's changed. Because, like I said, it shook up a lot of people that I'm friends with. But I didn't hear it from any other places.

• 1:52:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:52:12Joe Rogan?

  I mean, I didn't see you on a, did you do any other podcasts after you did mine?

• 1:52:16Speaker 03

  Yeah, I did many. You know Huberman?

• 1:52:18Joe Rogan?

  Sure, very well.

• 1:52:19Speaker 03

  Yeah, I was on his.

• 1:52:20Joe Rogan?

  He's great.

• 1:52:20Speaker 03

  Yeah, he's great. And there are, I can't, I can't remember the, but yes, a lot of podcasts. But hopefully now more. I do have more coming up. My schedule is really kind of crazy.

• 1:52:31Joe Rogan?

  Well, another thing that's great is the documentary is easily digestible.

• 1:52:35Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:52:35Joe Rogan?

  It's on Netflix. Everything's on Netflix. You sit down, okay, let's watch. And then you go, oh, my god.

• 1:52:41Speaker 03

  And then there's all these, you know, places to go at the end of it to learn more.

• 1:52:45Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:52:46Speaker 03

  If people want to do that. I would love to see it viewed by influencers, not in the typical, you know, social media sense, but people like religious leaders, you know, leaders who could be won over. You know, if you have any ideas, you know, but I thought about having, you know, the Pope. I mean, this sounds really wild, but, you know, a lot of people get their inform, where do people get their information? Like, from their religious leaders, from their peers, from their doctors? By the way, none of this is taught in medical school.

• 1:53:25Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy.

• 1:53:26Speaker 03

  That's crazy, right there.

• 1:53:27Joe Rogan?

  Well, neither's nutrition.

• 1:53:29Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:53:30Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:53:31Speaker 03

  So, you know, somebody's got to spend a lot of time getting that curriculum changed, right? Actually, you have to get the test changed because the teaching is to the test. So, if we could get this stuff on the test, there would be more doctors learning this. But they don't get it. They don't get it. They learn about lead, that's about all.

• 1:53:52Joe Rogan?

  Well, there's not a lot of incentive to teach this stuff. That's part of the problems that, especially these petrochemical companies and the, you know, the use of these things is going to affect so many different industries. Because if you cut that out and they, I mean, how much of an impact is that going to have on the economy? If everybody just stopped using all of these chemicals, all of, all the, you know, Lululemon brands and, I don't know, single them out, but all these different companies, if they all just went under tomorrow. That'd be a giant problem if everybody just stopped using these things.

• 1:54:30Speaker 03

  Maybe for a little while, but then they'd be healthier.

• 1:54:33Joe Rogan?

  Well, the people would be healthier, but the companies would go under.

• 1:54:36Speaker 03

  The companies will not be healthier.

• 1:54:38Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 1:54:38Speaker 03

  Unless they make the switch.

• 1:54:40Joe Rogan?

  But what could they do to make the switch? Like if you're a company-

• 1:54:42Speaker 03

  Well, you were saying like plant-based plastics.

• 1:54:44Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm. Do they make plant-based plastic clothing? Does anybody do that? Like plant-based plastic leggings? Let's find that out. Does anybody make plant-based plastic-

• 1:54:57Speaker 03

  Used-in clothing?

• 1:54:58Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. What is the primary chemicals that come out? And is it PFAS?

• 1:55:03Speaker 03

  PFAS, yeah.

• 1:55:05Joe Rogan?

  PFAS-free leggings? Because I would imagine, especially if you're not wearing underwear and you're wearing those kind of yoga tights, that would just get in there, right?

• 1:55:18Speaker 04

  Well, speaking of that, they're looking for, they want them to be "squat-proof," in quotes. So they're not see-through.

• 1:55:24Joe Rogan?

  Squat-proof?

• 1:55:26Speaker 04

  Yeah, if there's girls wearing leggings, you know, they're going to be doing a lot of squats at the gym probably or something like-

• 1:55:30Joe Rogan?

  Squat-proof?

• 1:55:31Speaker 04

  So they don't want people to be watching them a lot, but there are some-

• 1:55:35Joe Rogan?

  I don't know what that means, watching them a lot?

• 1:55:37Speaker 04

  You know, dude.

• 1:55:38Joe Rogan?

  Oh, see-through?

• 1:55:39Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, they're see-through. That's what I'm saying, like they're squatting.

• 1:55:41Joe Rogan?

  But that's a weird way to say. Squat-proof sounds to me like you can't do squats in them.

• 1:55:46Speaker 04

  Also probably ripping, I would imagine, too.

• 1:55:48Joe Rogan?

  I think it's just a bad phrase. You know, like when you do a squat or downward-facing dog, the fabric stretches out. You can see some undies through the fabric.

• 1:55:56Speaker 04

  Just tested nine different kinds of them. So there's a few different brands. Nah, this isn't even really-

• 1:56:02Speaker 03

  Oh, the bioplastics. Go back. There.

• 1:56:06Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, bioplastics. Three primary categories of non-toxic workout clothes. All-natural, or almost all-natural. For example, 100% organic cotton, or 90% cotton, 10% spandex. Most semi-synthetic fabric, for instance, Tencel fabric. Plant-based plastic, which is a plastic sourced from something like castor bean oil instead of fossil fuels.

• 1:56:25Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 1:56:26Joe Rogan?

  In general, I'm not a huge fan of plant-based bioplastics. They're advertised as plastic-free alternatives, but they're still plastic. And some research shows that they're not truly non-toxic. I know, it's disappointing, it says. Here's the honest-to-God truth. When it comes to performance, stretchiness, compression, durability, the plant-based plastics do tend to perform the best. Huh.

• 1:56:52Joe Rogan?

  Followed by the semi synthetics, followed by the, I think they mean perform the best in terms.

• 1:56:58Speaker 04

  Out of the three, I think, not.

• 1:56:59Joe Rogan?

  But in terms of stretchiness, oh, the other three. A lot of product categories where non-toxic options performs just as well as a synthetic option like shampoo, to give you one example, it's not really as straightforward with leggings. At the end of the day, you're gonna have to decide for yourself what kind of material you prefer. It will largely depend on things like what type of workouts you do, how you like your leggings to feel, where you work out and more.

• 1:57:28Joe Rogan?

  Okay, my reviews on these nine almost plastic-free, non-toxic leggings. All right, let's get to it, it says, what are the ones? So, Mate, it's a company called Mate. Overall review, it's, they're the best middle ground leggings. They're super high, they're not super high performance, I don't know what that means, but they're made from healthier materials and are very comfortable, they're great for lower impact workouts, just for general, everyday wearing. Squat test, passed, but had to size up.

• 1:58:00Joe Rogan?

  So, let's find what the best one is. Do they have the best one?

• 1:58:03Speaker 04

  I don't.

• 1:58:04Joe Rogan?

  So, Mate is one of them, what are the other ones?

• 1:58:08Joe Rogan?

  Pangaea, overall review, find myself reaching for these leggings more often than any of the others when it comes to hardcore workouts. Compressive nature of them makes me feel very held in when I'm jumping around, they have great stretch. Squat test, passed, material blend, 92% polyamide bio-based EVO, bio-based content, 8% part bio-based Creora elastane, 30% bio-based contact. Makes them different, closest to conventional synthetics in terms of fit, feel, stretch and compression. Okay, well, so this website is thefittery.com

• 1:58:49Joe Rogan?

  and forward slash plastic-free, non-toxic workout leggings. Go check it out for yourself. So, there's some options that are out there, hopefully we'll give those companies a boost and more people will wear them. Anything else before we get going?

• 1:59:05Joe Rogan?

  Think we covered it all?

• 1:59:06Speaker 03

  I think so.

• 1:59:07Joe Rogan?

  I think we sounded the alarm.

• 1:59:09Speaker 03

  I think we tried again anyway.

• 1:59:11Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, we did something.

• 1:59:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:59:13Joe Rogan?

  Like I said, I think it's just a, it's a volume thing. More and more of these conversations have to take place so that in, you know, the general zeitgeist, more people are aware of it and it's just increased awareness and just makes it where, you know, more people are making better choices.

• 1:59:33Speaker 03

  And your platform is so huge that I'm really encouraged to have the opportunity to talk about this with you and happy to come back.

• 1:59:42Joe Rogan?

  Well, I'd be happy to have you back. I loved you the first time. You're great the second time as well. And for everybody, one more time, The Plastic Detox. That's the name of the documentary. It's available right now on Netflix. Go check it out and fix your life, kids. All right. Thank you. I really appreciate it. It was really fun. Thank you.

• 2:00:04Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's great.

• 2:00:05Joe Rogan?

  And I'm really so happy that you're out there. Because like I said, if you weren't doing this very important work, I wouldn't know about it and I think a lot of other people wouldn't either. So, thank you.

• 2:00:14Speaker 03

  So pee in the cup.

• 2:00:15Joe Rogan?

  I will pee in the cup. I promise you. I promise you, I'll pee in the cup.

• 2:00:18Speaker 03

  And then if you want to do the next steps, let me know.

• 2:00:21Joe Rogan?

  I will do the next steps as well.

• 2:00:23Speaker 03

  You want to?

• 2:00:23Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 2:00:24Speaker 03

  So when you're ready to have another kit.

• 2:00:25Joe Rogan?

  Talk to that microphone so people know what you're saying.

• 2:00:29Speaker 03

  So, when you're ready to have another test kit, or you can go to Million Marketing and just order one.

• 2:00:35Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 2:00:36Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:00:36Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 2:00:37Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's a hundred bucks.

• 2:00:38Joe Rogan?

  All right. We'll do it.

• 2:00:39Speaker 03

  But we'll send it for nothing if you want. Just let me know.

• 2:00:41Joe Rogan?

  I'll give you the hundred bucks.

• 2:00:42Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 2:00:43Joe Rogan?

  Okay. Thank you very much.

• 2:00:45Speaker 03

  Okay, thank you.

• 2:00:45Joe Rogan?

  Appreciate it. All right. Bye, everybody.