#2470 - Pierre Poilievre

The Honourable Pierre Poilievre is a Canadian politician serving as the leader of the Conservative Party and leader of the Official Opposition. He has been the Member of Parliament for Battle River—Crowfoot since August 2025.www.conservative.ca/pierre-poilievre/www.ourcommons.ca/Members/en/Pierre-Poilievre(25524) Perplexity: Download the app or ask Perplexity anything at https://pplx.ai/rogan. Visible. Live in the know. https://www.visible.com/catfished Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  The Joe Rogan Experience.

• 0:13Speaker 01

  How are you, sir? Pleasure to meet you. It's great to be here. Thanks for having me. Great to be back in Texas. My pleasure. I'm glad we finally did this. Yes, me too. I wanted to do it the first go around. Yeah, I know. Well, when I got the invitation, we were in the middle of the election, and we just don't leave the country during election campaigns. I get it. And the problem we've had is we can't get you to come to Canada. And so, we've actually hatched a full strategy to get you into Canada. Ah. Because we think it's going to do big things for our tourism numbers. So, do you mind if I present you with something right out of the gate? Sure. All right. This is from a gunsmith and machinist in Calgary, Alberta. His name is Jay. And he's designed a kettlebell. Guess what the weight is? Uh, 70 pounds? 70 pounds. So, that's the weight you have.

• 0:58Speaker 01

  And it says on the front here, Jamie, it says here on the front, Jamie, pull it up. So, you've got that. We've got, let me see here, some other stuff for a stand. Oh, wow. That's really cool. Look at this stand here. So, we've got "Seeing is Believing", which I think was the slogan of the first UFC that you were the commentator for. I think it was number 13? 12. Number 12, right. And then we've got here your favorite quote from, um, what's his name? The Japanese martial artist? Miyamoto Musashi? Yes. And it says, "If you know the way broadly, you will see it in everything." Yeah. So, that's here. And then Morse code, there's a thank you letter for you. You've got your flying saucer.

• 1:43Speaker 01

  Oh, wow. And we've got your logo here, too. So, but most important of all, we've got a subliminal message, which is the Canadian maple leaf. Oh, cool. So, every time you do a kettlebell swing, you do a snatch, you do a clean, you're going to be seeing that maple leaf, and you're going to be reminding yourself that you need to come back to Canada. All right. All right? All right. I'll present that to you there. Thank you very much. I've got your logo on there, too. Very cool. Is that in the way, Jamie? I should take it off. Well, take it off.

• 2:14Speaker 01

  So, uh, I saw your, I saw your, uh, interview with Pavel. And I'm a, I'm a big kettlebell freak.

• 2:22Speaker 02

  Are you really?

• 2:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, absolutely. And I started researching him after you had him on. And I was trying to, I love history, so I was thinking, why did the Russians come up with this? And, uh, it turns out they used it as a counterweight at the farmer markets. So they would say, you know, you come in, you have to say, this is how much potatoes you're buying. But instead of trying to do it by eyeball, they would put what is now kettlebell on one side of the scale, and then the produce on the other. And then at the farmer's expeditions, you had these big Russian farmers who want to show how strong they were. So they would pick them up and do all kinds of, um, displays with them. And then, then the Russian army took it on, the Soviet army took it on, and then that's where Pavel

• 3:04Speaker 01

  picked it up and then brought it over the Atlantic and introduced it to America.

• 3:08Speaker 02

  Wow, that's crazy. So it was just accidental that they made this very functional tool for fitness?

• 3:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was, it was just, you'd go to a farmer's market, you want to buy some barley or some potatoes, but you don't know if you're actually getting the real weight. So they'd have a scale, a balancing scale, and they'd put the kettlebell on one side and the produce on the other, and then you knew you got the right amount. And then, of course, they have these big farmers, um, farm fairs, and they're showing off their, their horses and their cattle and stuff, and they'd want to do strength displays. So these farmers are throwing these things around, and the Russian military picked it up, and then the Soviets, of course, took over and they took it on. And then Pavel, I think he was a Belarusian though, if I'm not mistaken, Pavel.

• 3:50Speaker 02

  I'm not sure.

• 3:51Speaker 01

  And he brought it over to, uh, North America. But, uh, the ancient Chinese did it as well. You got, uh-

• 3:57Speaker 02

  Really?

• 3:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, the ancient Chinese, the Shaolin monks have used them, but they didn't do it with cast iron. They had, theirs were sort of a concrete, a concrete block. And they did for strength training as well.

• 4:08Speaker 02

  Oh, wow. A little history.

• 4:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, so I'm a big kettlebell freak. I love it. And I really, I started to study what Pavel's teaching. I wanted, I think he has an accreditation or something. If I ever get time, I might take it.

• 4:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, Strong First. Yeah, that's his organization.

• 4:24Speaker 01

  And you're doing, you have a whole program. I think you, you do Clean to Press and then...

• 4:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, I do a bunch of different things.

• 4:30Speaker 01

  Squats with, overhead squat and all that.

• 4:32Speaker 02

  It's a great functional tool, just for your whole body.

• 4:36Speaker 01

  Right.

• 4:36Speaker 02

  You know, it's really one of the best pieces of exercise equipment I think I've ever found.

• 4:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think he calls it a cannonball on a handle. And the thing I like about it is the, it's like a catapult, like it, all of the lift is in that, that instant where it flips over your hand. And, oh, there you go.

• 4:57Speaker 02

  The original ones. Wow, that's crazy. That's so interesting. So the handle was just to pick it up and carry it around?

• 5:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:05Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 5:06Speaker 01

  So it had a real functional use.

• 5:08Speaker 02

  Well, it's just amazing how good it is for a piece of exercise equipment that was accidentally designed that way.

• 5:16Speaker 01

  Absolutely. And I think it's far superior to, to a dumbbell exercise because there's no, a dumbbell, you get a, you get a consistent lift, but that's not real life. If you're in a fight or you have to pick something up heavy, it doesn't lift consistently. It's explosive in that small range. And what, you know, when you're doing a snatch, by the time you get up to your shoulder, the thing's weightless. Because the catapult, the catapult effect has taken over and now it's actually negative weight. It's lifting your hand up in the air if you're doing it right. But like if you're in a fight or if you're in a wrestling match or you're, you're trying to push really hard against a heavy object, it's all about explosive power.

• 5:55Speaker 01

  And that's what kettlebells give, rather than just this sort of freeze and contract thing that you do with dumbbells.

• 6:02Speaker 02

  Have you always been a workout guy?

• 6:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, look, I was big into sports until my mid-teens. I was on the wrestling team. I wasn't great. I was good, but I wasn't great. Then I got a wicked tendonitis in my shoulder. And it ended my athleticism for like four years. And that's how I got into politics. I was so bored. I got to get home from school. I had nothing to do. So I took my, told my mother to take me.

• 6:25Speaker 02

  Tendonitis got you into politics?

• 6:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's what it was. I just couldn't get rid of it. Like, every time I thought I had it beat, I'd go in and I'd train and it would be full of inflammation. No one could do anything about it. And so I was like bored out of my mind. And I said to my mom, like, you know, you go to these local meetings with the conservative association, like, take me to that, because I'm going crazy.

• 6:48Speaker 02

  That's nuts. So that, so what, what, what were you interested in when you first went there? Like, we just didn't like the way things were running. Like, what was it about it that got you so curious?

• 7:03Speaker 01

  Well, I grew up in a suburban neighborhood in South, South End of Calgary. You know, and my folks were teachers. I was adopted. My mom was a 16 year old. She, she was a obviously a single mom. She put me up for adopting two school teachers. There was electricians and oil workers and police officers lived on our street. Normal, hardworking, good folks. And I always grew up with the impression they were getting screwed over. And that the government didn't listen to people like them. Didn't listen to people who grew up on streets like ours. And living in Western Canada, there was a greater sense of that. We called it Western alienation at the time. And there was this guy, kind of a quirky guy, but a really brilliant guy named Preston Manning. And I saw this billboard of him.

• 7:47Speaker 01

  And he had his fist up and it said, enough. And I said, yeah, I like that guy. So I got involved in politics. And I started reading about different things. I started, I read a biography on Fidel Castro and then I read-

• 8:00Speaker 02

  Justin's dad.

• 8:01Speaker 01

  No, not Justin's dad. No, no, no, no. His dad was Pierre. His dad was Pierre. His dad was Pierre. I had issues with Pierre Trudeau, too.

• 8:11Speaker 02

  It is a great conspiracy theory, though.

• 8:14Speaker 01

  Well, it is a hell of a, I don't think it's a true one, though. His dad is Pierre. His dad was very controversial while I grew up because he did a lot of damage to the oil sector. And we're from oil country. And so that was one of the things that I felt kind of resentful about the national government. And one of the reasons I got involved is because the West deserved a fairer deal. And, but I read a lot of books, like, you know, Milton Friedman, Capitalism and Freedom. And I came to develop a philosophy.

• 8:43Speaker 01

  Based on just maximizing personal, financial, religious freedom. Let people make their own decisions. And that animated me to get involved in politics and fight for that. And I've been doing it ever since.

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• 11:21Speaker 02

  Oh, that's a fascinating transition from wrestling and tendonitis.

• 11:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:26Speaker 02

  Deeply involved in politics.

• 11:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, like, you know, you're a sports guy. If you had suffered an injury that took you out of taekwondo when you were young and you simply couldn't compete at anything, you'd probably be looking for some other adventure.

• 11:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 11:41Speaker 01

  That's how it was.

• 11:42Speaker 02

  Well, we're lucky that stem cells weren't around back then, or you never would have gotten into politics.

• 11:46Speaker 01

  That's right. I would have been a wrestler. I don't know if I would have won any awards, but, uh, but yeah, that was how I got started. And, and I got very active very quickly. I got my first internship, making 600 bucks a month when I was 16 or 17 years old. And, uh, would, you know, take two trains and a bus and an hour and 45 minutes each way, but I was so thrilled. My dad bought me a used suit and a used pair of shoes. And I thought, this, I'm, this is so incredible. I'm an important guy. I wear dress shoes. I wear, I wear a tie. Didn't matter that the tie was bought from some dead guy whose family had sold it to a, a used store, but, uh, that was my start and I loved it.

• 12:27Speaker 02

  Well, uh, I'm really excited to have you in here because I've seen you speak multiple times and you're a very reasonable, intelligent person that makes a lot of sense. And that is, that is a rare thing in politics. And I love Canada. Like I should just say, I don't go up there anymore, but it's because I, I, I think the government went horribly wrong over the last, you know, X amount of years, but the people are amazing. It's like, I was always, I've always said that Canada has like, it's like America with like 20% less assholes.

• 13:02Speaker 02

  Like every time I would go up there, like people are so nice.

• 13:05Speaker 01

  It is true.

• 13:05Speaker 02

  They're like the nicest people.

• 13:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:07Speaker 02

  And I think that's part of what went wrong for Canada is that people are rule followers. And, you know, they're trusting and kind people. And, you know, this wolf in sheep's clothing snuck in and, you know, was pretending he was a sweet guy and passing all these crazy laws. And just when we saw what happened with COVID, with just with what happened with the truckers and people's accounts getting shut down for donating to the truckers, like the whole thing was so concerning because it's our, Canada was like a part of America almost. I mean, you're a different country, but it's like you used to be able to go over there with just a driver's license, you know? It was like, it was such a cool place to, I started going to the Montreal Comedy Festival

• 13:52Speaker 02

  in like 1993. I loved it up there. It's like one of my favorite places to visit.

• 13:57Speaker 01

  Just for laughs?

• 13:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 13:59Speaker 01

  Good. How's your French?

• 14:00Speaker 02

  Not good.

• 14:01Speaker 01

  Okay. We'll work on that. We'll get you some French lessons.

• 14:04Speaker 02

  It's terrible. I don't know any French words. My wife is learning French though. It's interesting. She's got this app that she's learning French. But it's just an amazing place. It's, it's a great country. And to see it go the way it's been going and sliding the way it's been happening over the last, you know, X amount of years, there's just so many things that concern me. You know, one of the things that really concerns me is this assisted suicide thing. Had one in 20 deaths in Canada is now assisted suicide? That's insane.

• 14:38Speaker 01

  Well, listen, my, my view is that people should have the choice. But the concern we have is the suggestion that it would be offered to kids or offered to people whose only condition is mental illness.

• 14:51Speaker 02

  Right.

• 14:52Speaker 01

  I don't agree with that.

• 14:53Speaker 02

  My concern as well. I mean, if someone's got a terminal, like a good friend of mine went to Oregon to end his life because he had ALS. But I mean, he was gone. I mean, he could barely talk at the end of his life. His name is Michael Laird. He was a regular guest on Kill Tony. Great guy.

• 15:09Speaker 01

  Right.

• 15:10Speaker 02

  It was horrible. I mean, watching him fade away and he wanted to go out on his own terms.

• 15:15Speaker 01

  Right.

• 15:16Speaker 02

  Went to Oregon for assisted suicide. There's a place for it.

• 15:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:19Speaker 02

  But, I mean, there was a kid recently in Canada and he did it for seasonal depression. I'm sure you're aware of that case.

• 15:28Speaker 01

  I am.

• 15:28Speaker 02

  Like, who allowed that to happen? Who didn't counsel this young guy? Who didn't give him a hug? Who didn't tell him about diet and exercise and changing your surroundings, your lifestyle? Just do something.

• 15:40Speaker 01

  Right.

• 15:41Speaker 02

  To give you some hope and happiness. Like, seasonal depression?

• 15:44Speaker 01

  I know.

• 15:45Speaker 02

  You're gonna end your life, this beautiful life on this planet, for seasonal depression?

• 15:50Speaker 01

  And that's what we have to do more to give people hope when they're suffering with mental illness.

• 15:55Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 15:55Speaker 01

  You know, give people the sense that they can take back control of their lives. I think we do have to promote fitness more because it gives people... It turns them into a subject that controls their surroundings rather than an object being controlled. It teaches people to... that hardship is temporary and that the aftermath is positive. And we have to give people, reinstate people with a sense of meaning when they're going through hardship. Rather than to say that it's all over and, you know, I think we have to... Our system needs to be geared towards giving people all the best options to live on. Rather than just suggesting "Made" as the easy... As the automatic path for the system to impose on people.

• 16:40Speaker 01

  So, one of the things our party is pushing for is to make clear that public servants who are getting phone calls from people who are in need of help for something, they shouldn't be offering that... they shouldn't be offering "Made." People can seek it out if they want. But when you're calling up saying, "I'm poor," or "I'm struggling," or "I'm having a mental illness," or "I've got an injury," we shouldn't have a government worker saying, "Well, consider 'Made.'"

• 17:05Speaker 02

  Well, the unfortunate thing is that any organization that gets formed...

• 17:11Speaker 02

  Wants to grow and you get financial incentives and then you hire more people and then it gets bigger. And then what do you have to do? Well, you have to keep doing what you're doing.

• 17:22Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 17:22Speaker 02

  What are you doing? You're killing people. So you're gonna kill more people because you're actually financially incentivized to put more people through this program and end their lives. That's, it's very sad.

• 17:33Speaker 01

  I think we have to get to, get to a point where people have the freedom to make their own decisions, but they also have hope that there is an option for them.

• 17:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, give them a pathway, you know, and like the exercise thing, it's not just give them, you know, control of their life, but it makes them happier. It's, it's, it's show, there's been studies that show it's much more effective than antidepressants.

• 17:52Speaker 01

  Absolutely. Well, it's the, first of all, there's the physiological side which affects the brain. But it's also the sensation of discomfort that you push through, knowing that you have to focus on the thing you have to do. And that I think it helps us in anything we're encountering, whether you're going through a divorce or a bankruptcy or an injury or an illness. If you know that pushing through to the other side because you've got a meaning there, that can give people hope for, for, for a better life, you know? My favorite psychologist is Victor Frankl, Victor Frankl, and he developed this Lagos treatment, which was basically giving people a sense of meaning.

• 18:32Speaker 01

  He survived the Holocaust in the concentration camp because he had a sense of meaning that he wanted to, his book was stolen from him in the concentration camp about this, this theory and he wanted to live on so he could survive and write that book. And then he found his, in his teaching, that it wasn't so much people's circumstances that determined their happiness. It was whether they had a meaning in life. And he tells this incredible story of a group therapy session where he had this very rich woman who was married to a very rich man. And he had next to him another lady who was living in terrible poverty. She'd lost a son and had a second severely disabled son. And he said to both them, what will your life look, look like when you're 80 years old and you're on your deathbed?

• 19:15Speaker 01

  And the wealthier lady said, well, I will look back and think that I had some fun and enjoyed the simple, the, the luxuries of being very wealthy and having an easy life, that there wasn't a lot of meaning to it. And whereas the mother who was struggling with a disabled child and had lost another one said, "Well, I gave my first child a great life, a short one, but a great one. I struggled to give my disabled child a good dignified existence, and I leave this world satisfied and happy that my life had purpose and meaning." And the lesson I take from that is that it is not about whether you have a gazillion dollars or whether your life is easy, it's whether you have some meaning to invest your life into.

• 19:57Speaker 01

  And I think we have to infuse people's lives with meaning so that they can live a good life.

• 20:04Speaker 02

  Well, that's a great message, and I think that's one of the most important parts of being a leader is having a great message and having a great philosophy and having a great perspective. And, I mean, that's what disturbed me the most about when Trudeau was running the country, that I didn't feel like, I felt like he was manipulating people with woke politics and ideology, and that it was just this weird slippery slope that people were falling down, where they're losing rights and you're losing your ability to express yourself. And it just, it just really disturbed me, because I always felt that Canada was like one of the freest places and one of the most open-minded places.

• 20:45Speaker 02

  And it just, I didn't understand how it could fall so quickly.

• 20:50Speaker 01

  We still, you know, we are a free country and we are a democracy. We have preserved that. You know, my leader, I had this funny moment when Joe Biden came to Parliament Hill and I said, "Mr. President, I'm Pierre Poliev, I'm the leader of His Majesty's loyal opposition." And he said, "Loyal opposition? How can you be loyal and opposition at the same time? It's like, what the hell are you talking about?" And, because you guys have a system based on a republic, whereas ours is the British system. And in our system, the opposition is an act of loyalty. That's what our system, it means that if you are opposing the government...

• 21:31Speaker 01

  You're doing it out of loyalty to the good of the people. In our House of Commons, you have a half circle in your Congress. We have two sides in our parliament. It's two and a half sword lengths apart because they used to literally kill each other in the old English days. But the idea is the opposition is to prosecute the hell out of the government, make the mighty low. The most powerful people in the country are supposed to tremble every time they walk in that place. Because know every mistake they made, every abuse of power, every corruption they might have done can be exposed. And in front of all eyes. So our system is really designed to constrain the power of government through what we call parliament. Like, I don't work for government. I work for parliament and parliament works for the people. We call it the House of Commons because it's the House of the Common People.

• 22:15Speaker 01

  It's green in there because they used to meet in the fields of England. And so I really view the world of our parliament to limit the power of government, to maximize the power of the people. Make people bigger, stronger and more fulfilled by having the government narrowly focus on the things it's supposed to do. Roads, military, basic social safety net, borders, police, etc. But then leave people alone to live their lives. If I were to start a political party from scratch, it would be the mind your own damn business party. You know, just get the government to do its job well, do four or five things really well and then let people live their lives.

• 22:53Speaker 02

  Well, that sounds very reasonable.

• 22:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 22:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, anybody that doesn't go along with that, anybody that's opposed to that, that doesn't even make sense.

• 23:00Speaker 01

  No, look, like I said, the way I grew up and everything I've seen ever since, when I talk to farmers or factory workers, electricians, I find they know just as much or more than the so-called experts I encounter on Parliament Hill. Like back during COVID when all these governments were printing money. And all the politicians and bankers said, oh, this is great. Well, look at all this money we get to spend. I'd walk around communities and I'd have like mechanics say, you know, we're gonna have inflation. And I would say, yeah, it makes sense to me. And I'd go back to Parliament Hill and the experts would all say, no, no, there's not going to be any inflation. And sure enough, all that money filtered into the economy, bid up all the goods we buy, and everybody

• 23:43Speaker 01

  got smoked with higher prices. But the point is that it was the, it was the common people who don't study this stuff for a living, who don't read endless reports and studies, who could just figure out that if there's money pouring into the economy that's not matched by goods and services, it's going to bid up the cost of everything. So that's my experience and my ideology is the common guy knows how to make his own decisions. We need to empower him to do that.

• 24:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, just stay out of people's lives.

• 24:10Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 24:10Speaker 02

  So, there's a narrative in America, and the narrative is that you were about to win, and your party was about to win, but then Trump came along and said he was going to turn Canada into the 51st state, and everybody went crazy. Is that accurate?

• 24:24Speaker 01

  I wouldn't say they went crazy. I mean, it like,

• 24:27Speaker 02

  Well, they got very upset.

• 24:28Speaker 01

  They should be upset, though. I mean,

• 24:30Speaker 02

  What's a crazy thing to say?

• 24:31Speaker 01

  It is a crazy thing to say. Canada's not for sale. We're never going to be the 51st state. You know, we love Americans as neighbors and friends, but we, we want to be uniquely and we want to be sovereign as Canadians. It's our country. It's where we grow up. You're a patriot as an American. I'm a patriot as a Canadian. It's where my grandfather arrived. It's where our collective ancestors put on military uniforms and sailed to fight wars. It's where our grandkids are going to live. We're very proudly Canadian. So we're never going to be the 51st state. And I just wish he'd knock that shit off so that we can get back to talking about the things that, that we can do as two separate, but, but two separate countries that are actually friends.

• 25:12Speaker 02

  Did that really have that much of an effect up there? Like, did people take him seriously?

• 25:18Speaker 01

  I think at first, everyone thought it was a joke. Because we've always had these jokes like, you know, one day we're gonna take over Vermont and Detroit should be part of Canada and all that stuff. But then he kept saying it and saying it and, you know, it became, it became, a lot of people got upset about it and I think understandably so.

• 25:38Speaker 02

  Understandably, yeah. I mean, it's a crazy thing to say.

• 25:41Speaker 01

  It is a crazy thing to say.

• 25:43Speaker 02

  I talked to him on the phone about it. It was like so funny. It was like, at first I was joking, but then the people were like, "It's a good idea." Like, "That's not a good idea."

• 25:51Speaker 01

  Why are you saying that? I can assure him of that. But, and the tariffs aren't a good idea either. We should get the tariffs out because there's so much that we could be doing together as neighbors and partners if we got rid of those tariffs. You know, the, I think, what are the biggest problems in America today? Affordability, security. And we can help with both. We knock the tariffs down. Let's look at affordability. We have the fourth biggest supply of oil anywhere on earth. You guys pay a huge price discount for our oil because we're effectively, all our infrastructure to ship it is north-south and it's a very unique heavy oil. So we accept, unfortunately, and for now, a price discount on the oil we send you, which

• 26:35Speaker 01

  can translate into more jobs and paychecks, but also lower energy prices. You've got $5 a gallon right now in lots of places in America. You're buying, I wanna produce more so we can sell 2 million more barrels of Canadian oil into the US market. And then there's, there's housing. You've got huge housing pressures on young people. They can't afford a place to live. We're the biggest supplier of lumber for home building of any country that imports to the United States, exports to the United States. We've got very low cost, but high quality softwood lumber we could be shipping. Or the best truck, the best-selling truck in America for 45 years now is the Ford Series. It's aluminum. It's a military-grade aluminum body.

• 27:21Speaker 01

  You guys can't make enough aluminum here. You don't have enough bauxite or electricity to convert it into alumina and aluminum. You get your aluminum from us. A tariff does not bring the production to America. It raises the price of the aluminum and therefore the F-series truck. Get rid of that tariff. You lower taxes, you lower the cost of an F-series truck for the miner in Appalachia or the electrician in Ohio. And that's just on the affordability side. There's a lot we can do with our minerals to make the continent a hell of a lot safer as well. So I think it's in America's interest to come towards a tariff-free deal and trade freely as friends. And that will be good for both of us.

• 28:02Speaker 02

  Have you had conversations with Trump about this?

• 28:04Speaker 01

  No. I believe in the rule of one prime minister at a time. So I fought like hell to win. I didn't win. We came very close. So I've said, listen, I'll leave it to the prime minister to do the negotiating. And I've said I'll support him any way I can. Even in my visit down here, I'm sending him text messages to tell him what's going on to try and support his work. Because what we want, we both want what's best for Canada.

• 28:27Speaker 02

  Where are your elections now? When do you have the next elections?

• 28:31Speaker 01

  That's, this is a strangely hard question to answer because

• 28:36Speaker 02

  I know, you have a weird system.

• 28:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's

• 28:38Speaker 02

  Weird in comparison to ours, rather.

• 28:40Speaker 01

  Yours are fixed, as you know. Ours, we have technically fixed election dates, but the government can fall at any time. It's very simple. A rule is that if the opposition parties bind up and they can vote down the government, that is to say, the majority of MPs in the House say, we've lost confidence in the government, the election is now. Or if the prime minister decides he wants an election, he can call it and the election is now. But it has to be sometime in the next roughly three years.

• 29:07Speaker 02

  Oh, so you have a deadline where it has to take place?

• 29:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's right. So

• 29:12Speaker 02

  But it could happen tomorrow.

• 29:14Speaker 01

  The it wouldn't necessarily be tomorrow, but like, you know, in the next few weeks, if there were a non-confidence vote and the government lost it, then then they then they go to an election. So it's kind of like the British system.

• 29:26Speaker 02

  Interesting.

• 29:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, it is the British system, really. We we adopted the British system almost identically.

• 29:32Speaker 02

  So when you're campaigning, you're essentially, this is like a long game.

• 29:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:37Speaker 02

  You're you're just laying out your strategy, laying out what you would do to make Canada a better place.

• 29:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, we have two roles. So I I said I'm the leader of the opposition, but I'm also Prime Minister in waiting. So the notion is that the Canadian people should not only have a government, but they should have an alternative. And that alternative has two functions. Official opposition, it's actually called that. I think it's a proper noun of capital O, official capital O opposition, and also government in waiting. So you have to be prosecuting the government, but you have to present to yourself yourself to people in a way where they say, yeah, that guy or that team could actually be the government. Those are the dual roles that I have to carry out.

• 30:18Speaker 02

  Interesting. And how long have you been attempting to become Prime Minister for? How long has this been going on for?

• 30:26Speaker 01

  Uh, almost exactly four years because I launched my campaign in February of 2022.

• 30:32Speaker 02

  Was this something that you had always had in the back of your mind or?

• 30:36Speaker 01

  I I I'd say in the back of my mind, but it wasn't something I was set on. Like, I I thought maybe, you know, when I'm in my 50s or 60s, I would try it. But I was in no rush to do that.

• 30:48Speaker 02

  How old are you now?

• 30:49Speaker 01

  I'm now 46.

• 30:51Speaker 02

  And so what motivated you to do it?

• 30:55Speaker 01

  Well, you know, in after COVID, as COVID was unfolding, it wasn't just the the COVID policies themselves. It was the economic policies because I've been very focused on economics in my parliamentary career. And I was seeing the size and cost of government, not just in Canada, but all around the world, growing so much. And that inflation was just destroying the working class people and that it was going to get a lot worse. And so I ran on the platform of making Canada the freest country on earth. We had a tradition of freedom in Canada. Our One of our earliest prime ministers, Wilfred Laurier, he was asked, "What's Canada's nationality?"

• 31:36Speaker 01

  And he couldn't actually list an ethnicity or a religion because we were already mixed up even 100 years ago. We had Scots and Irish and First Peoples. So he said, "Look, yeah, French, most of all, French and English and First Nations." So he said, "Canada's free and freedom is its nationality." And I wanted to reinstate that idea. I wanted it to be the freest country anywhere on earth. And so I ran on that platform and won the leadership. And then ran in the last election and stayed on after that election. That's kind of the last four years of my journey.

• 32:12Speaker 02

  And so, the way your elections work now, so you're essentially just stating your case and going around and talking about what policies you would implement and how you would do things differently and just waiting to see how it all plays out.

• 32:26Speaker 01

  It's, we have, see, our prime minister is different than the president. He's actually part of the legislative branch. So he comes in to the House of Commons and we debate multiple times a week, he and I. So it's not just, you know, in your system, the Republican and Democrat hold like four debates right before the election. In our system, we're always debating. So he comes in, he's on one side, I come in, I'm on the other side. And I ask him like six consecutive questions and then he answers. And we go back and forth. And that's called question period. Then we have these committees where we prosecute and propose on finance, natural resources, healthcare, you name it. So we're constantly prosecuting the government, also proposing better ideas at the same time.

• 33:10Speaker 01

  So, like the other day, I proposed to bring back the auto pack between Canada and the US to have tariff-free trade going both ways across the border. So that's an example of how I'm in a position to actually offer solutions even though I'm not in the government. And then hopefully government actually steals my ideas and I've been encouraging them to steal my ideas.

• 33:28Speaker 02

  So what?

• 33:29Speaker 01

  Is this coffee, by the way?

• 33:30Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 33:31Speaker 01

  I need some caffeine. Yeah, get some caffeine in there. I'm a terrible caffeine addict.

• 33:38Speaker 02

  Me too. Cheers.

• 33:40Speaker 01

  Cheers.

• 33:42Speaker 02

  Oh, and shout out to George St Pierre for hooking this up.

• 33:44Speaker 01

  Yes, George is a good man.

• 33:46Speaker 02

  He's the best.

• 33:46Speaker 01

  Great guy. He, uh, he said he's gonna have me do some pad work with him at some point.

• 33:51Speaker 02

  Oh, really?

• 33:51Speaker 01

  So that's pretty dangerous.

• 33:52Speaker 02

  Oh, that's awesome. He's here all the time.

• 33:54Speaker 01

  He's a fantastic guy.

• 33:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, he's the best. He's one of the best representatives of martial arts you, you could ever hope to meet.

• 34:01Speaker 01

  He's got humility. I remember, he came to Parliament Hill, uh, years ago and I thought, geez, he's gonna be, cause he's, I thought he'd be cocky and swagger, but he was so down to earth.

• 34:11Speaker 02

  Oh, he's so humble.

• 34:11Speaker 01

  So much humility.

• 34:12Speaker 02

  For what he's accomplished in MMA, I've, I've introduced him to people and they have no idea who he is.

• 34:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:19Speaker 02

  And then I go, "That is one of the greatest fighters that ever walked the face of the earth."

• 34:22Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 34:23Speaker 02

  They're like, "No way. He's so nice."

• 34:26Speaker 01

  And that, that's the Canadian way, though. Like, it's soft spoken.

• 34:29Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 34:29Speaker 01

  And gentle and kind, but...

• 34:32Speaker 02

  But tough.

• 34:33Speaker 01

  Don't, don't piss us off.

• 34:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, but tough.

• 34:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, he's really tough.

• 34:36Speaker 02

  That's where Trump fucked up.

• 34:38Speaker 02

  I wonder what would've happened if he didn't go along with that 51st state nonsense. You know, I mean, that, that is the narrative in this country, like I said, that if he didn't do that, that you would've won.

• 34:48Speaker 01

  Well, you never know, but I, I try not to cry over spilled milk. I focus on what I have to do and live in the present. Um, but, uh, but this new guy, um, Malot, have you, have you followed him, Mike Malot?

• 35:01Speaker 02

  Oh, sure, I know Mike.

• 35:02Speaker 01

  Yeah. He's gonna be fighting in Winnipeg. I think he's the next GSP.

• 35:06Speaker 02

  He's very good.

• 35:07Speaker 01

  You like him?

• 35:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, he's excellent, yeah.

• 35:08Speaker 01

  He did a great job in Montreal.

• 35:10Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 35:10Speaker 01

  If you saw him there, but...

• 35:12Speaker 02

  Oh, you have, I've been to many of his, or called a bunch of his fights.

• 35:15Speaker 01

  Is that right?

• 35:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, he's excellent.

• 35:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, he's a, my buddy is his trainer, uh, Crew Allen, Hamilton. He's a, for a Hamilton Steel, uh, Steel Town guy and, uh, anyway, we're hoping that he has a big win in Winnipeg.

• 35:30Speaker 02

  Well, you guys have one of the best gyms in the world, TriStar in Montreal.

• 35:34Speaker 01

  Is that right?

• 35:35Speaker 02

  Farah Sahabi.

• 35:35Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 35:36Speaker 02

  If there, there's like maybe a handful of great masterminds in MMA as far as coaches.

• 35:43Speaker 01

  Right.

• 35:44Speaker 02

  And Farah's is at the top of the list.

• 35:45Speaker 01

  Is that right? And what's his discipline?

• 35:47Speaker 02

  He trained GSP.

• 35:48Speaker 01

  Is his discipline karate or kickboxing, Muay Thai?

• 35:51Speaker 02

  He's, I mean, he's a true mixed martial artist, black belt in jiu-jitsu, kickboxing, every, I mean, he can do everything. And he has, TriStar is a place where a lot of people from America go up there for their camps.

• 36:03Speaker 01

  Interesting.

• 36:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 36:05Speaker 01

  I'll have to drop in and see those guys.

• 36:06Speaker 02

  Oh, it's phenomenal. I mean, like I said, GSP trained up there, a lot, a lot of fighters trained up there. And he also had a great working relationship with a lot of people in America. So he would come down and, you know, they would exchange fighters back and forth and train with each other.

• 36:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, we have a great martial arts tradition in Canada. I don't know if you know Mike Miles, he brought Muay Thai from, from Thailand to Calgary like back in seven, in the seventies or eighties, and he's still got a great gym there and.

• 36:35Speaker 02

  Do you know who Jean-Yves Terrio is?

• 36:36Speaker 01

  Yes, he's a buddy of mine.

• 36:37Speaker 02

  Oh, really?

• 36:38Speaker 01

  From Ottawa, yeah.

• 36:38Speaker 02

  Oh, no kidding?

• 36:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:40Speaker 02

  He was a hero of mine when I was a kid.

• 36:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, he's incredible.

• 36:43Speaker 02

  When I was kickboxing, he was like my idol.

• 36:45Speaker 01

  Really?

• 36:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 36:47Speaker 01

  Does he know that?

• 36:48Speaker 02

  I never talked to him.

• 36:49Speaker 01

  Well, he's gonna see this.

• 36:50Speaker 02

  I bought his book.

• 36:51Speaker 01

  Yeah?

• 36:51Speaker 02

  I bought his book and I started running stairs because of his book. Because he was talking about how it increased his leg muscles and his kicking power.

• 36:57Speaker 01

  I remember that, it was in one of his documentaries or something. He said his kicks weren't strong enough, so he would do stairs. But I went and trained at his dojo a few times. It's in South Ottawa.

• 37:06Speaker 02

  He was incredible. He was, he was one of the truly elite kickboxers of his time.

• 37:13Speaker 01

  He, he was a great boxer, like I know he, he never competed as a boxer, but his, his hands were.

• 37:18Joe Rogan?

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• 38:01Joe Rogan?

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• 39:10Speaker 01

  Fantastic and...

• 39:11Speaker 02

  Well, that's really what separated him from a lot of other people. It was like his accuracy and his technique was pristine.

• 39:17Speaker 01

  He told me that he would spend hours studying the the distances that your limbs would have to travel depending on how you moved. He was kind of like a scientist in the way he learned and studied. And he was all about simplicity and removing anything unnecessary. I think Bruce Lee said that. He said, "Simplicity hack away at the unnecessary." And, you know, how do you, what's the shortest distance to hit the strike? And he's got a great, he's a really good heart, too. You know, he had... He has a jujitsu club as well. And when I went in there, there was a blind fellow who was into jujitsu, which you can do as a blind person because it's so much about feel.

• 39:59Speaker 01

  But with COVID, he couldn't do jujitsu anymore because they disallowed that kind of close contact. So he actually found a way to train this guy with focus mitts, even though he was blind. It was really incredible.

• 40:10Speaker 02

  Oh, wow.

• 40:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was just, but it was incredible amount of patience he had invested in making sure this this young man could keep doing his physical activity throughout COVID.

• 40:18Speaker 02

  Wait a minute, so they allowed pad work, but they didn't allow jujitsu?

• 40:22Speaker 01

  I don't know if it was a government policy or if it was just a, it was a policy at the gym because you're, you're just so wrapped up and sweating all these.

• 40:30Speaker 02

  The gyms in America, everybody just.

• 40:32Speaker 01

  Just kept going.

• 40:32Speaker 02

  Kept going. They hid. They would like put foil over the windows and like hide or coming through the back door. A lot of the gyms in LA, that's what they did.

• 40:41Speaker 01

  They just plowed ahead.

• 40:42Speaker 02

  They just figured out a way to not get in trouble. And and some people did get caught and get in trouble and nothing ever came of it because it's pretty unconstitutional to tell people that they can't work out together. Like, the government really didn't have the right to tell people that they couldn't do what they wanted to do. That was a legal thing that you can do. Like, all of a sudden, there's this mandate, there's this law or rule being passed down, or at least it's being promoted, that you're not allowed to go to a gym and work out with other people. Like, but those are the healthiest people. Those are the people that are the least likely to get sick.

• 41:21Speaker 02

  Like, this, this is crazy to say. And you know if you're sick and if you just have a good gym with good people, say, hey, don't show up if you're sick. Everybody should be okay. These are the people you should worry about the least.

• 41:33Speaker 01

  We need to have common sense again, and too many governments in the Western world have gotten way too bossy. They're just looking for every excuse to boss people around. And that's what we have to push back again. And it's, you know, EV mandates or you know, excessive control of the internet or the massive increase in the cost of government, which is really like appropriating the private voluntary economy into the coercive government economy. That's what we're seeing across Europe, in the UK, parts of the United States, as well as back home. So we need to, we need to reverse that trend and get people back in charge of their lives.

• 42:13Speaker 02

  Well, the narrative has always been that rights lost are never regained, or are very, very difficult to regain them. So how could you reverse that?

• 42:23Speaker 01

  Well, you have to keep fighting. I mean, we did regain our rights after COVID. And, you know, the people have to, look at the history of it.

• 42:33Speaker 02

  Which rights did you regain?

• 42:36Speaker 01

  Well, all the mandates are gone now.

• 42:38Speaker 02

  Of course, but those were ridiculous anyway.

• 42:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, they were ridiculous, but...

• 42:42Speaker 02

  And they also impeded business. They ruined people's lives, social lives.

• 42:47Speaker 01

  But freedom has always had to be taken. Like, you go, our tradition goes back to 1215 with the Magna Carta, the Great Charter. And most of the freedoms we have today were in that original document. Right to a jury trial, no arrest without charge, no confiscation without compensation, no taxation without representation. All comes from that one document, the Magna Carta. And it was because King John was taken aside by the barons, and they said, "Listen, pal, this is the choice. Either you sign this and follow it, or we overthrow you." And as a result, we got the Magna Carta. And all, when you guys had your Boston Tea Party and said, "You can't tax our tea because we don't elect you," that was an appeal as

• 43:31Speaker 01

  English, you were Englishmen, saying, "I'm not, we're Englishmen. We have the right not to be taxed unless we vote for it, and we're going to throw you out otherwise." But that came out of the fields of runny meat in England in 1215. So it's a long march towards freedom, and it's never actually done. Like, there's no permanent victories or defeats. You just have to keep going forward.

• 43:49Speaker 02

  So if you were elected, let's say you get in right now, what's one of the first things you would do?

• 43:57Speaker 01

  I would unblock our resources. So we have the most resources of any country in the world. Per capita, bar none. We need to have, to make it happen, though, we need to have the fastest permits anywhere in the world. And the lowest taxes on producing those resources. We're the fourth in oil. The number, number one in uranium. Number one in potash for fertilizer. We are the fifth biggest supplier of natural gas. We have the longest oceanic coastline. Like, we are, we have 12 of NATO's, um, sorry, we have 10 of 12 of NATO's defined defense minerals. So, you know, you had that guy Palmer Lucky on? I don't think he can make his stuff without Canadian minerals.

• 44:40Speaker 01

  Maybe I'm wrong, maybe he'll correct me, but like night vision technology, you need to have, uh, you need to have germanium for that. You need to have gallium to make semiconductors and radar. You need to have aluminum for armored vehicles and airplanes. You need cobalt for heat resistant alloys and fighter jets. You need tungsten for body, sorry, armor piercing ammunition. We have it all. And what I want to do is unblock those resources. Produce them in abundance for ourselves and our allies. Make, you know, $200,000 paychecks for our trades workers. Build up an enormous strategic stockpile of it so that we have tons of leverage in international relations.

• 45:24Speaker 01

  And if, God forbid, there is ever a global conflict, we would have all the resources necessary to win it. So, uh, but we need to, we need to pass, we need to get rid of a lot of laws that are blocking and, and replace them with laws that have fast permitting so that we can produce this stuff on scale very quickly.

• 45:41Speaker 02

  So is the concern the environmental impact of extracting these things? Is that what's holding it up?

• 45:49Speaker 01

  That is the... That's the ostensible reason, but I just think across western, the western world, like Europe, UK, parts of the US and Canada, there's a problem with bureaucracy just growing way too damn big. Like, you know, the First Nations in our country are incredibly forward-looking. The Squamish built 6,000 units of housing on 10 acres of land. You can believe it. In a town, in a city of Vancouver where it's very hard to get a permit to do anything because it was their land, so they did it. They're trying to build, they're building now an LNG liquefaction plant where they replaced an old dirty mill.

• 46:30Speaker 01

  They cleaned it up and put an LNG plant there, but the federal government took a lot of time, 14 years, to give them a permit. So, we need to think like they're thinking, which is entrepreneurial, speed of business, get it done quickly. That's how you develop. Like, we have this community in my district, it's called Hardesty, 600 people, they manage $100 billion of oil in a town of 600 people. Why is it there? Because their municipality offers a permit in one week with one page. And I wanted to tell this story, so I called them and I said, "Can I have someone come and do a video with me?" And they said, "We don't have anyone here. We don't have like bureaucrats that can help you. They're all out on their farms right now. They come in, they stamp the permit, and they go back to their farm."

• 47:14Speaker 01

  Well, that's why we have $100 billion of energy moving through the area, which is bigger than the GDP of many countries, because they have fast permits. And that's what we need in Canada. We need to be the fastest place to get things done.

• 47:24Speaker 02

  But don't you think you need some safeguards to protect the environment? And how do you balance that out?

• 47:30Speaker 01

  Protect it quickly. We can figure out what, whether a project is damaging to the environment in weeks and months rather than decades. Like, there's nothing you're gonna learn in year 14 of the review that you couldn't have learned in, in month 14. So, there's ways to protect the environment. When the Germans, so when the Germans had to break their dependence on Russia after it invaded Ukraine, they approved an LNG import terminal in 60 days. They completed the whole damn thing in less than 200 days. And guess what? No environmental problems. They, they got their engineers to sit down and figure out how to do it quickly. And that's the, that's the mentality that we need to get in Canada.

• 48:10Speaker 02

  So, what would you be able to do to bypass all this bureaucracy? How could that be done legally?

• 48:19Speaker 01

  Well, you slim it down to one project, one environmental review instead of 20 or 30. You have a fixed timeline that the bureaucrats have to give an answer of six months rather than just as long as they want to drag it on for. And the other thing I would do is study areas where they're perfectly situated to have a project like a pipeline or a mine or an LNG export terminal or a port expansion and I would pre-permit it. I would say to our officials, "Go in, study, make sure that the environmental aspects are all in good order. I'll issue a pre-permit and then anybody who comes along and wants to build it as long as they follow the terms and act responsibly has a guaranteed permit before they even apply for it." And I think we would have a roaring economy if we did that.

• 49:00Speaker 02

  That sounds awesome, but the great fear is that if you do have an impact on the environment, that impact is often permanent and that it's devastating. And I've seen some of the oil extraction that they've done up in Alberta where you look at the area, it looks like scorched earth.

• 49:19Speaker 01

  No, no, no, no, no. No, no, no, no. It's the most responsible oil extraction in the world.

• 49:24Speaker 02

  But when you see these, what is that one area that often gets criticized?

• 49:29Speaker 01

  Fort Mac.

• 49:30Speaker 02

  Is that what it is?

• 49:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, they're open pit mines. You open up a mine, you take out the bitumen, you separate the sand from the oil, you make it less viscous by putting diluent in it and you ship it off. And then after the oil is, after the mining is done, they resurface it and you wouldn't even know there was a mine there.

• 49:50Speaker 02

  And there's no impact to groundwater, no impact to the environment?

• 49:54Speaker 01

  I mean, there's an impact no matter what you do, but at the end of the day, the people who live there are very healthy and very happy and they're the strongest supporters of the expansion of the oil sands. It's an incredible...

• 50:04Speaker 02

  Because economically, it's amazing.

• 50:05Speaker 01

  Oh, it's incredible. It's the best resource in the world. It's like, there's no decline rate. You guys have shale here, but you know, as the years go by, you get less and less out of a shale reservoir. We have very little decline. We can keep producing and producing. We have what's called the insitu where there's an entire oil sands operation under your feet. You could be out in a forest hunting and you wouldn't even know that under your feet they're extracting it through a whole system of pipes where they inject just steam, steam vapor that loosens up the oil, it sinks down, it goes into another pipe, comes up to the top and you can have beautiful pristine nature, the bears, the... The deer, the birds, they don't even know that there is extraction happening under their feet. So we have the best industry, the most responsible industry anywhere in the world.

• 50:50Speaker 01

  It's been a really disgusting PR campaign by extremist environmentalists, and frankly, some of our competitors, to try and make our industry look bad. But it's the best industry in the world.

• 51:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, they got me.

• 51:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:03Speaker 02

  I saw some videos on it, and I was like, "Oh, my God, what are they doing to the ground? What are they doing to the earth? It looks horrible."

• 51:08Speaker 01

  They're all, it's all bullshit. We have the clean-

• 51:11Speaker 02

  It looks horrible.

• 51:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, but I mean, that's just a superficial look at it. I'll take you for a tour in the oil sands. You'll be amazed. We have the best engineers in the world. And by the way, the First Nations people absolutely love it, because it's lifting their people out of poverty. They're getting enormous job opportunities out of it. One of our MPs is a former chief, where they took 18% unemployment, brought it down to three, balanced their budget. Another one of my members of parliament in Northern British Columbia negotiated a $40 billion LNG plant on his, on the Heysla territory. It's completely eliminating poverty for the First Nations there. And by exporting clean Canadian natural gas, which we can liquefy 25% cheaper, because it's cold as hell in Canada,

• 51:55Speaker 01

  they actually displace dirty coal overseas. So instead of Asia burning coal, they're burning clean Canadian gas that's delivered by First Nations partnership. So this is the best way to do it. Makes everybody richer and makes our entire continent better off.

• 52:10Speaker 02

  Well, it seems so simple, the way you're laying it out. I don't understand why this hasn't been implemented.

• 52:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, this is, this is the story of my life. It's frustrating.

• 52:19Speaker 02

  Is it, but it's, is it that simple? Is it really, this is what's holding everything up? The bureaucracy and the time it takes for permits and-

• 52:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, like a lot of things.

• 52:30Speaker 02

  Regulations?

• 52:31Speaker 01

  We have the same thing in housing, and so do you. Like, if you look at-

• 52:35Speaker 02

  California certainly is.

• 52:35Speaker 01

  California is terrible. Like, why is there such a housing shortage in California? It's because it takes forever to get a permit, and there's always bureaucracy standing in the way. And it totally screws over the working-class youth who can't find a place to live, because they're not being built. And we have that challenge in Canada as well. Well, that's why I proposed ideas to cut the bureaucracy and the taxes so that we can build affordable homes for our youth because right now we have a whole generation that can't afford homes. And that was one of the biggest issues I ran on. Homeownership is necessary for family formation, for civil peace in society where, you know, everybody feels like they have a piece of the pie. We need to expand homeownership, but to do that, you've got to get the government gatekeepers out of the way, speed up the permits, free up the land, cut the development taxes.

• 53:22Speaker 02

  So, let's assume that you got in office. How much time would it take to start implementing these things? And how quickly would that impact be felt by the Canadian people?

• 53:34Speaker 01

  Look, I think a lot of them can move very quickly. There's a lot of projects that are people that that investors are sitting on, but they don't have certainty in permits. So I would unblock that. And I think in the first year, you would start to see immediate benefits for the working people who'd be getting these jobs. Some of it would take more and more like a medium term. Like, the second thing I would go after is just the inflationary spending, which is a big problem all over the Western world. Like, people just can't afford to live. I don't know if you've you do you you encounter that around here?

• 54:10Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, yeah. I mean, inflation's crazy. And it's, I mean, the national debt in America just went up to 39 trillion.

• 54:17Speaker 01

  Right, which is bigger than your GDP.

• 54:19Speaker 02

  It's a lot of money.

• 54:20Speaker 01

  So, so explain this to me. Fifty years ago, a barber and a barber and a waitress could buy a house with a big yard for a dog and raise four kids, meat and potatoes on the dinner table every night. And now an accountant and a lawyer can't do that. Why is that?

• 54:38Speaker 02

  Well, there's a lot of spending and a lot of making money, a lot of just turning, you know, just making.

• 54:47Speaker 02

  Dollar bills with nothing behind it, nothing to back it.

• 54:51Speaker 01

  This is the biggest fraud perpetrated on the working class people in the last hundred years.

• 54:57Speaker 02

  Printing money is just insane. It's just the, the idea you just print more money. It's like, and people go, okay.

• 55:03Speaker 01

  Well, it looks, it looks painless at first, but if you have an economy with 10 apples and $10, it's a buck an apple. You double the number of dollars to 20, but you still only have 10 apples. Well, all of a sudden it's two bucks an apple. It's not that the cost of apples has gone up. It still costs the same resources to grow the, and pick the apples. It's that the, the price has gone up because the value of the money has gone down.

• 55:26Speaker 02

  Right.

• 55:27Speaker 01

  So in America, over the last 55 years, you've doubled the number of homes in America from about 70 million to 150 million. You know how much the money supply has grown? 30 times. So you have twice the homes, but 30 times the cash.

• 55:44Speaker 01

  So what's happened? Housing costs have gone up 15 fold in 55 years. And now an entire generation of kids can't afford homes. We have exactly the same problem in Canada. This is the biggest wealth transfer from the working class to the, the elites, from, I say the have-nots to the have-yachts. And Washington and Wall Street love it, by the way, because it inflates the stock market, it inflates the bureaucracy. Politicians get to spend, CEOs get their stocks inflated. But it destroys the working people and we need to get back to, to hard money. Everything should be getting cheaper, by the way. You know, it takes 80, 60 to 80% less resources to grow food. We grow four times the food on the same acre, get four times as much milk from the same cow.

• 56:30Speaker 01

  We use 80% less water and fertilizer. So why isn't it that food is not less expensive? It's because all of those gains are being erased by monetary inflation. So it's not that food is more costly, it's that the value, the money we use to buy it has less purchasing power. And we need to do what the Swiss do, which is they don't print money. They have balanced budgets. They have almost no deficit and they have almost zero inflation in Switzerland. They have the strongest money in the world, the Swiss franc. And we would all be better if we operated like the Swiss when it comes to our money.

• 57:05Speaker 02

  So in a real world scenario, it's like you, you take over Canada, how would you go about implementing this?

• 57:11Speaker 01

  You've got to cut bureaucracy, consultants.

• 57:15Speaker 01

  Which consume, by the way, twenty-six billion dollars of spending.

• 57:17Speaker 02

  How big is your debt in Canada?

• 57:19Speaker 01

  Uh, one point three-ish trillion.

• 57:21Speaker 02

  Oh, that's baby debt.

• 57:22Speaker 01

  It's compared to you. You guys are.

• 57:25Speaker 02

  We're ridiculous.

• 57:26Speaker 01

  Wild. But, you know, you've gotten away with it because the dollar, the American dollar is the reserve currency. So all of these countries prop up the value of the US dollar by keeping it on reserve. Better hope that doesn't change.

• 57:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, better hope.

• 57:39Speaker 01

  And we, we, we don't have that luxury. And so, uh, but we do have a lot of debt and we have a lot. We have provinces too. They're quite indebted. But I would cut the bureaucracy. I would cut consultants, foreign aid. I'd cut way back on foreign aid. The, we give a corporate welfare, these checks to corporations. I believe business should make money rather than take money. So I would get rid of that. We're giving a lot of money to fake, fake refugees. People who come in and don't actually, are they're not actually fleeing danger? Like, I love real refugees. My wife was a refugee, but I have no time for people who are pretending, but they're not really.

• 58:20Speaker 02

  And what do you mean by pretending to be a refugee? How are they doing this?

• 58:22Speaker 01

  They're not actually endangered in their home country. So they've come to be, uh, declared themselves as students and then wanting to stay, declaring a refugee status.

• 58:32Speaker 02

  Oh, and this is common?

• 58:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, it happens. It happens and, I mean, they just want to have a better life. So I don't, I don't begrudge them as people. But we can't, we can't spend money on social service, stay enhanced, social services, advanced programs that we as Canadians don't get. For people who are not paying into the system.

• 58:49Speaker 02

  So you're not opposed to them being there? You're opposed to them getting Canadian welfare?

• 58:53Speaker 01

  Well, I'm opposed to them, if, if they're not real refugees, they shouldn't be brought in as refugees. I think we have to distinguish between those people who are actually in danger in their home country, which is the definition of a refugee, and someone who just wants to come, uh, in, in excess of, uh, of their, their proper immigration stream.

• 59:11Speaker 02

  Is this that common that it's actually affecting your economy?

• 59:15Speaker 01

  Right now, it's a challenge because we had a big number of international students and temporary foreign workers that came in in very large numbers in like two or three years. We were bringing in about a million people a year, which in America's terms would be 10 million, like just if you're doing per capita. And it really caused a housing shortage, like some places where you have 26 of these students living in one basement. So we're trying to unwind that now.

• 59:42Speaker 02

  And how do you do that?

• 59:44Speaker 01

  Well, when their work permit and their visitor visa runs out, then we have to encourage them to head back lawfully.

• 59:52Speaker 02

  Right, but you don't want to do it ICE style?

• 59:56Speaker 01

  No. No, I don't think we need to do that. I just think we have to be orderly and lawful about it.

• 1:00:01Speaker 02

  And is that supported by the Canadian people?

• 1:00:03Speaker 01

  Yes, because we're a very welcoming country. We're a nation of immigrants, but we're also a nation of laws. And we, there's a general consensus like across the spectrum in Canada that there was, the population growth was too fast for like four or five years. And so we're trying to unwind that now.

• 1:00:24Speaker 02

  What are the other things that you would have to do to drop your debt and sort of balance your budget and begin to turn things around?

• 1:00:36Speaker 01

  Well, in addition, so I like this idea that actually, believe it or not, that Clinton, that Bill Clinton and the Republicans did in the 90s in the US. It was called the pay-go law. It was a very simple principle. Every time the administration wanted to bring in a new dollar of spending, they had to match it with a dollar of savings. So there was no extra net spending for like eight years. And that's when your government balanced its budget and paid off $400 billion of debt. That law elapsed in 2002, and immediately after that, America went back into deficits. And you haven't emerged, you've been in deficit now for 25 years. This is about internalizing scarcity. Every creature in the universe, every bird in the trees, every fish in the seas has

• 1:01:21Speaker 01

  to live with scarcity, maximizing use of scarce resources. The only creature who doesn't do that is the politician, because he's always using someone else's money.

• 1:01:29Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:01:30Speaker 01

  It's like, oh, well, just print it, or borrow it, or tax it, it's not my money. And so they routinely show up to their cabinet meetings and say, well, I've got a new idea. It's a hundred million dollars. Where are you going to get it? I don't know. We'll print it. We'll borrow it. We'll, we'll tax it. Not my money, but if you had a law saying you can't actually bring a proposal to cabinet unless you have matching savings to pay for it, well, then you'd have these politicians walking up and down the hallways in their departments, looking for waste and like rooting it out. So instead of making the single mom, the senior or the small business owner live with scarcity, I want the politicians and bureaucrats to live with scarcity. And that's what I would impose by law on my government.

• 1:02:07Speaker 02

  Well, it's just a rational way to deal with the problem. Like, don't spend money unless you could save money.

• 1:02:15Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:02:16Speaker 02

  That's how you balance things out. I mean, Clinton did balance the budget.

• 1:02:19Speaker 01

  He did.

• 1:02:20Speaker 02

  During his time, and people forget that because we've always assumed that there's always been this extraordinary debt, but that's not the case. During the 1990s, I mean, he did a fantastic job at that.

• 1:02:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, they, I mean, it was that Congress was, was very disciplined as well, and the American people just got fed up and said, we're not tolerating these deficits anymore. And they imposed scarcity from the center. And by the way, the economy boomed because the government was restrained and the free market economy could just roar. And that's another part of the equation, by the way, is unlock the power of free enterprise. Like, this is the 250th anniversary, not just of the Declaration of Independence, but also of Adam Smith's Wealth of Nations, where he basically, for the first time in human history, described the free market system. And that was starting to flourish in the States and in parts of Europe.

• 1:03:11Speaker 01

  And that system basically started to come into place after, you know, the late 1770s. The growth since the free market system has came and come into place in, in the world has been 200 times faster than it was before. Because there is the most powerful system for generating material benefit for the people. And that's what we need to restore in Canada. I want to make it the freest economy in the world.

• 1:03:36Speaker 02

  Well, that all sounds amazing. How the hell did you lose?

• 1:03:45Speaker 02

  How can a rational person not vote for that? I mean, you're not saying anything that's restrictive. You're not saying anything that is in any way infringing on people's rights or liberties, or it just sounds like it's just 100% positive for Canada.

• 1:04:00Speaker 01

  That's what I think. That's my mission, and I think it will be positive. I will get there, you know. Canadians do things through evolution, not revolution, so I'm just gonna keep pushing my ideas, and I think overwhelmingly we'll win the next election.

• 1:04:14Speaker 02

  Well, it sounds like... I just can't see how someone would listen to what you're saying and say, "I find fault in this." Other than like the potential environmental impact of extracting resources, I could see how a lot of the greenies would get like really upset and get their panties in a bunch about that and be very incredulous to the idea that you're gonna protect the environment while you're extracting all these resources. But if you could lay it all out and also lay out this enormous economic impact and how it would uplift impoverished communities, how it would completely change the economic landscape of the country, it just only makes sense. That's why I'm baffled.

• 1:04:57Speaker 01

  Well, listen, the people render their judgment, but it means I have to do a better job of proselytizing.

• 1:05:02Speaker 02

  What were the criticisms of you? Like, what did your opponent say that like, that resonated with people? What were they trying to say?

• 1:05:10Speaker 01

  It was funny because they all disagreed with my ideas, and they said, "These are all very scary ideas."

• 1:05:15Speaker 02

  Scary?

• 1:05:16Speaker 01

  And then they said...

• 1:05:16Speaker 02

  They hate growth?

• 1:05:17Speaker 01

  First of all, they said that I had no policies, then they said they're scary policies, and then they stole my policies right before the election, so... But, hey, listen, if the government that's in power now steals all my ideas and does the things I wanna do, then I've won.

• 1:05:32Speaker 02

  Great.

• 1:05:32Speaker 01

  That's why I came here. I didn't just do it so that I could have my name on the door. So I keep saying to the Prime Minister, "Steal my ideas."

• 1:05:39Speaker 02

  Right. But he doesn't wanna.

• 1:05:41Speaker 01

  Well, he... I won't criticize them on foreign soil.

• 1:05:46Speaker 02

  I understand.

• 1:05:47Speaker 01

  But.

• 1:05:47Speaker 02

  Good for you.

• 1:05:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, we have a mutual respect.

• 1:05:50Speaker 02

  That's such a Canadian thing to do.

• 1:05:51Speaker 01

  That is a very Canadian thing to do.

• 1:05:53Speaker 02

  So polite. That's what I've said about Canadians, they're so polite.

• 1:05:57Speaker 01

  It's funny, your security guy was talking about the Canadian standoff of, you know, when you get to a door. You go first. No, you go first. No, you go first. You can stay there all day. I actually looked this up the other day. Ontario actually has an apology act. It's a law that defines the apology because we always say sorry in Canada. So they wanted to clarify that sorry is not a legal admission of guilt. So like if we get into a car accident, I say, oh, sorry, man, I was terrible at your bumper. It doesn't mean that I'm guilty. So it's actually in law.

• 1:06:25Speaker 02

  So polite. Even if somebody else screwed up, you say sorry. That's funny. That's so Canadian.

• 1:06:31Speaker 01

  But you know, the great thing about Canada is we've always sorted our shit out peacefully. Like the Protestants and Catholics tore each other's eyeballs out in Europe for like hundreds of years. And then we came to Canada and just got along. And that's the great thing about Canada is like you can come, you know, Muslims and Jews, Christians and, sorry, Protestants and Catholics, Hindus and Sikhs, they come to Canada and they just get along. They live on the same streets. Eventually, we all start intermarrying and it's a great thing about Canada.

• 1:07:03Speaker 02

  Well, it really is a great melting pot, you know?

• 1:07:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, and like folks get to keep their cultures like at the same time as blending into the Canadian identity. Like my wife's from Venezuela and so like, you know, oftentimes I, like I'm in the house and there's like 16 Latinos and they're all speaking Spanish. I have no idea what the hell is going on. And they have this food, it's called a jackass. And I said, when they start cooking this stuff, I thought my, I said, did your mom just call me a jackass? Because that's what it sounded like. I don't speak any Spanish, but.

• 1:07:38Speaker 02

  You should probably learn.

• 1:07:39Speaker 01

  I should now.

• 1:07:40Speaker 02

  They're yapping in your house. You should know what they're planning.

• 1:07:42Speaker 01

  It's a great, my kids are starting to learn Spanish, so I'm going to be outnumbered.

• 1:07:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, you better learn it.

• 1:07:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:07:47Speaker 02

  Yeah. So what else is an issue in Canada that you would like to fix?

• 1:07:57Speaker 02

  Jamie, can you toss me those napkins?

• 1:07:58Speaker 01

  We have to.

• 1:07:59Speaker 02

  I got a, I got an allergy I'm dealing with.

• 1:08:01Speaker 01

  We, we gotta toughen up our justice system. It got way too soft. And.

• 1:08:08Speaker 02

  What's wrong with your justice system?

• 1:08:09Speaker 01

  Basically bail. I mean, we all believe in the basic principle that you're innocent until proven guilty, but if someone's convicted, has, have like a hundred and fifty prior convictions and they're newly arrested on their latest crime.

• 1:08:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:08:22Speaker 01

  I don't think we should be release, releasing them onto the streets. And so we got too lax on bail. So there's now a consensus in Canada that you should have severe restrictions on repeat offenders. Like in Vancouver, they had to arrest the same forty guys, six thousand times in one year. Forty guys, six thousand arrests. So they're basically being released within hours of their latest arrest. So we're, we're, we now brought, built a bipartisan, multi-partisan consensus to fix that. And we're pushing to toughen the bail system and ensure that it's the repeat offenders. It's a tiny group. We don't have a lot of criminals in Canada, but they do a tremendous amount of crime.

• 1:09:04Speaker 01

  So if you take them off the street, you put them in prison, you can basically reduce the crime rate dramatically.

• 1:09:10Speaker 02

  Well, we probably have more crime percentage wise in America, but it's still a small percentage of the population that commits the crime.

• 1:09:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:09:17Speaker 02

  But it's the same issue. Like in New York City, it's extraordinary, the amount of people that are repeat offenders.

• 1:09:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:09:23Speaker 02

  And they just let them go. In California, no cash bail, let them go. It's like, it is bananas and it doesn't make any sense and it doesn't make anybody help. I understand you want to be empathetic and I understand these narratives that the prison system is racist and the justice system is racist and these people never been given a great shake in life. Well, if you want to fix that, start in these impoverished neighborhoods, establish community centers, establish better education, fund that, but don't let hardened criminals back on the street.

• 1:09:56Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:09:57Speaker 02

  They're habitual. If you've been arrested forty, fifty times, it doesn't seem like you're getting any better. So whatever rehabilitation process they have going on there, that's not working. So keep doing the same thing over and over again. Unless you like crime, I don't understand why you would do that.

• 1:10:14Speaker 01

  This has been, you know, it's imposed by these so-called experts. They tell, oh, we've done all these studies that show that these soft-on-crime policies work. But everywhere it's been tried, it's been an absolute disaster, anywhere in the Western world. We have a town called Penticton. There's one guy who the police can tell by looking at the crime rate, whether he's been in jail or not. When he comes out of jail, the crime rate for the entire town of Penticton actually goes up.

• 1:10:41Speaker 02

  That's so crazy.

• 1:10:42Speaker 01

  But you just keep him in prison.

• 1:10:44Speaker 02

  That seems so simple to solve. It's like, there's so many of these problems with government that it's just like rational thinking.

• 1:10:50Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:10:51Speaker 02

  One of the great interviews that I loved about you, you were eating an apple. And you were talking to this guy who was being completely ridiculous. You were asking him to define the issues that he had. And it was so funny. It was like, this is what happens when a rational person meets a person with empty narratives.

• 1:11:07Speaker 01

  It was such a weird moment because...

• 1:11:09Speaker 02

  You just kept eating that apple.

• 1:11:10Speaker 01

  It was such a, it was such a good apple. It was so good. That's the thing. And the thing is, I didn't even realize I was being taped. I thought it was a print interview.

• 1:11:19Speaker 02

  Oh, that's hilarious.

• 1:11:20Speaker 01

  That's why I think I was so relaxed. But, so I'm in the most beautiful place in the world. If you ever, if you haven't been to the Okanagan, it's unbelievable. Like, it's lakes, it's mountains, it's nice, dry weather. And there's orchards and vineyards there. Like, you'd love it. And so I'm in an apple orchard, and I'm walking around, just talking with people. And my staff says, this reporter wants to do an interview. And I'm enjoying the apple. He comes up, starts asking questions. Nobody who was there thought this was a moment. Like, we'd thought nothing of it. We dumped the whole thing. My staff unbeknownst to me was recording my whole walk. We dumped this fifteen-minute video on the internet. No one noticed it. And like, three weeks later, my phone blows up, and people say, hey, how about that apple? I'm like, what is he, what are they talking about, this apple thing?

• 1:12:04Speaker 01

  And then, you know, within three days, everybody's talking to me about this damn apple that I had almost forgotten about eating.

• 1:12:10Speaker 02

  Well, that conversation sort of...

• 1:12:14Speaker 02

  It embodied this issue. It really did because you have rational thinking and empty narratives colliding.

• 1:12:22Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:12:23Speaker 02

  While you're eating an apple. Like, you're so casual about it, you're actually eating an apple, which was so perfect. I mean, you couldn't, if you planned on, like, if you had a PR team, I think you should be eating an apple. They'd be like, ooh, I like it. So he's casual, he's eating fruit, it's healthy, you know?

• 1:12:39Speaker 01

  It was total coincidence, like, out of nowhere, not planned, and not even noticed. Like I said, no one there thought this was going to be a moment. We just, like, totally forgot about it.

• 1:12:49Speaker 02

  Well, it made it in America. It was viral in America, and we were like, how come that guy's not the prime minister? What the hell's going on?

• 1:12:55Speaker 01

  Well, in the meantime, you can buy Ambrosio apples from the South Okanagan. I'm really plugging a lot of sales for the Canadian economy today.

• 1:13:03Speaker 02

  You know what I found out about Canadian maple syrup?

• 1:13:07Speaker 01

  What's that?

• 1:13:08Speaker 02

  It is actually a superfood, and it is actually better for you than honey.

• 1:13:13Speaker 01

  Is that right?

• 1:13:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, it contains a bunch of polyphenols and a bunch of, like, healthy nutrients. I always thought maple syrup was just a guilty pleasure you poured on pancakes.

• 1:13:22Speaker 01

  No, it's a totally Canadian thing.

• 1:13:23Speaker 02

  Really good for you.

• 1:13:24Speaker 01

  So you take it before your workout?

• 1:13:26Speaker 02

  No, no, I just watched a Instagram video yesterday. Somebody sent it to me, and I was like, what is this?

• 1:13:32Speaker 01

  We'll have to send you a bunch of maple syrup from Canada.

• 1:13:34Speaker 02

  Oh, I've got a bunch. I've had a bunch of Canadian friends have sent me some.

• 1:13:37Speaker 01

  We actually have a maple syrup reserve in Canada, like, a reserve of excess stockpiles.

• 1:13:41Speaker 02

  Like, an oil reserve?

• 1:13:42Speaker 01

  Well, we don't have an oil reserve. This is something I want to change. I want to have an oil reserve, but I also want to keep the maple syrup reserve because we're Canadians after all. There's nothing more Canadian than that.

• 1:13:51Speaker 02

  Well, it's so delicious. I can't believe it's good for you. Make sure that's true. I mean, in what way is it true? Uh, are there nutrients?

• 1:14:00Joe Rogan?

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• 1:15:00Speaker 02

  Put it into perplexity.

• 1:15:01Speaker 00

  No, I did, I did. I compared it versus honey. I'll give you what it showed.

• 1:15:05Speaker 02

  What does it say?

• 1:15:06Speaker 00

  That's not saying it's better.

• 1:15:07Speaker 02

  Maple syrup and honey are both sugary, but maple syrup is slightly lower in calories, glycemic index, has more minerals like mag- magnes- mag- maganase and calcium, while honey is a bit higher in calories, has a slightly stronger impact on blood sugar. Well, this guy on Instagram was very convincing. I wish I saved it.

• 1:15:27Speaker 01

  I think it's convincing. I think you should go with it.

• 1:15:30Speaker 02

  I'm in it. I'm done.

• 1:15:32Speaker 01

  Stick with it.

• 1:15:33Speaker 02

  Tastes better, too.

• 1:15:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's the best. It's fantastic. Put that with a little bit of Greek yogurt, your protein.

• 1:15:38Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:15:39Speaker 01

  That's what I do. Greek yogurt.

• 1:15:41Speaker 02

  And maple syrup. Maybe we start a trend. Because everybody uses honey on their yogurt.

• 1:15:44Speaker 01

  No, maple syrup from Canada. Because if it's not from Canada, it's not the real deal.

• 1:15:48Speaker 02

  Well, there's a lot of fake syrup, right?

• 1:15:50Speaker 01

  There's a lot of junk out there. When you go to a pancake house and they have that stuff in the little plastic cups, that's garbage.

• 1:15:57Speaker 02

  Corn syrup crap.

• 1:15:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, you don't want to have that. That's manufactured crap.

• 1:16:00Speaker 02

  Well, that's just the case with honey as well. I had a woman in here once, it was a beekeeper, and she was explaining to us that a lot of honey is not actually honey. They water it down with corn syrup.

• 1:16:09Speaker 01

  There's so much shit in our food these days.

• 1:16:12Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:16:13Speaker 01

  I believe in eating clean.

• 1:16:14Speaker 02

  100%. Well, I mean, that was one of the primary factors for me supporting this administration was RFK Jr. and this Make America Healthy Again initiative. Because I think, you know, I had my friend Brigham Buehler yesterday from Ways to Well on, and, you know, we hammered this many times, over and over again, but people need to hear it. We spend more money on healthcare and we're sicker than we've ever been before. And we have more chronic illness and we have more money. None of it makes any sense. It's completely ridiculous and it's obvious that people are eating the wrong things. And there was so much outrage of him implementing all these healthy choices and trying to get rid of dyes that are illegal in Canada.

• 1:16:56Speaker 02

  Like the same cereals that the same factory sells in Canada. They sell with natural dyes and in America, we demand them to be more colorful, so we put poison in them.

• 1:17:08Speaker 01

  Really?

• 1:17:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:17:09Speaker 01

  Is that, no, you know, what are the, what do you think are the dietary habits that are making people in the Western world sick right now? Like, is it the dyes? Is it the sugars? Is it the carbs? Like, what's getting people?

• 1:17:24Speaker 02

  There's a lot of things. First of all, it's processed foods. Processed foods is a, an enormous percentage of a lot of Americans' diets. Things with massive amounts of preservatives in them. And that, that's, like, if you want, like, a general guideline, eat real food. Eat real eggs, real vegetables, real meat, real fish. You'll be healthier.

• 1:17:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:17:47Speaker 02

  As soon as you start having things that can sit on a shelf forever, except things like rice and, you know, normal beans. Like, things that are dried, that makes sense, that could sit there. But if something can just sit on a shelf for a long period of time and you consume it, how is it just not rotting?

• 1:18:02Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:18:02Speaker 02

  I'm sure you've seen where they've taken a McDonald's Big Mac and they've just let it sit. Take a cheeseburger in a box and the guy pulls it out like 10 years later, it looks exactly the same. That's not food!

• 1:18:13Speaker 01

  The bacteria didn't want to eat it. They looked at it and they were like, "I'm not eating that."

• 1:18:17Speaker 02

  If bacteria doesn't eat it, mold doesn't eat it, that's crazy. Why are you eating it? Like, there's something in it preventing the mold from growing. What is that? Well, that stuff fucks with your gut bacteria. It's, it's terrible for your body. And, empty calories. And we, we consume an enormous amount of processed food in this country. And if you want to be a healthier person, eat real fruit. Eat real food. Eat real vegetables. Eat real meat. It's that simple. Just that that would fix ninety percent of our problems when it comes to people's diets.

• 1:18:50Speaker 01

  And we like when my my wife once looked at some of the baby formula we had and she said she looked on it. She said, there's no expiry date on this. This never goes bad.

• 1:18:59Speaker 02

  That's crazy.

• 1:19:00Speaker 01

  That can't be that can't be a good thing.

• 1:19:02Speaker 02

  Right. Meanwhile, breast milk you have to freeze, right?

• 1:19:04Speaker 01

  Exactly. So and then what about on the like the fitness side? What do you think we can do? I mean, beyond you've done a lot just talking about it with your the size of your audience. You've probably got a lot of people off the couch. But what policies do you think we could push that would get people physically active, working out, moving again?

• 1:19:24Speaker 02

  Well, the real important thing is community. The the easiest way to get fit is to to get around a bunch of other people that are also involved in the same endeavor. Right? If you have a bunch of friends that are unhappy with the way their life is like, just go walk together. Say, hey, guys, let's all go for a walk after dinner together. Let's all decide like as a neighborhood to go walk. Just walk for a half an hour after your meals. It'll lower your glycemic index. It'll change your body. It'll make you healthier. You'll feel better. You know, it it just does so much for you, just movement and activity. And if you're involved with a group of people that are also inclined in the same direction.

• 1:20:05Speaker 02

  They're also trying to get better, trying to get fit, then you kind of you're, you know, you feed off of your atmosphere. People imitate the people that are around them and you get support from the people that are around them. You know, make it a little healthy competition, you know, who can, you know, do the most exercise and who can do the most? You know, whatever it is, like whether it's a sport or whether it's a game or whether it's just something that you enjoy doing. That's physically physically taxing slightly. It doesn't have to be a crazy kettlebell workout or a jujitsu class. Just take a just take a walk. Just just if the world, if the United States or Canada or anybody that's got problems with their health.

• 1:20:47Speaker 02

  Just decided to start walking every day for twenty minutes. It'll change your life. And then add things to it. Add some body weight squats. Add some pushups. Skip a little rope. Do something. Take a yoga class. It'll change your life.

• 1:21:01Speaker 01

  Right. Absolutely.

• 1:21:02Speaker 02

  You need activity. The human body has needs. And when it doesn't, those needs are not met and you don't your biological requirements aren't met. You get develop anxiety, you get overweight, your your muscles atrophy, your bone density decreases. You can't open up a jar anymore. There's all these problems that could be solved with just simple movement and activity. You don't have to become a fitness nut. You have to become a gym rat. You just do something and that alone. And then change what you eat. Drink more water. Stop drinking soda. Stop, stop drinking so much alcohol, you know, stop eating processed food. If we just slowly but surely get this in people's heads.

• 1:21:45Speaker 02

  For the longest time, people didn't think there was anything wrong with eating processed food. They didn't think there was anything wrong with, they they thought sugar just gave you extra calories, that's it. They didn't realize the catastrophic health consequences of consuming all this sugar. The increase in type 2 diabetes, all these problems that are people are having, that people are having because of poor diet.

• 1:22:04Speaker 01

  So what's your, what's your theory, though, on how that ha- why did that happen? Why did, wha- what caused millions of people to shift their diets away from good wholesome real food towards the processed garbage?

• 1:22:18Speaker 02

  Well, first of all, marketing, right, um, and availability, right? The, the, the, they always say the center of the grocery store is what you should avoid. Because the center is all the stuff that doesn't need to be refrigerated, right? Everything on the outskirts, all the vegetables and the fruit, the meats, the milk. That's all the stuff that's healthy because it has to be refrigerated. Because if it's not, it goes bad. Things that can just sit on a shelf. But things that sit on a shelf forever, those are the things that are the easiest to profit from. Because you don't have to worry about storage, you don't have to worry about refrigeration when you're processing or when you're moving them and transporting them. You know, just education is the most important thing. Because there's a lot of people that don't know how much their diet impacts them. And then there's also the problems that happen in this country where the sugar industry

• 1:23:03Speaker 02

  literally bribes scientists to pass the blame on saturated fat. And pretend that this was the cause of all these heart issues that people were having. And all the obesity, that it was just fat. So then people started. Eating all these seed oil rich foods like mayonnaise, or excuse me, like margarine and you know, and corn oil and canola oil, all this.

• 1:23:25Speaker 01

  When it's better just to have tallow or butter.

• 1:23:27Speaker 02

  Yes, it's like natural food. Your body knows what to do with it.

• 1:23:31Speaker 01

  Beef is like a superfood. A nice fatty piece of beef, best thing you can eat.

• 1:23:36Speaker 02

  It's so good for you.

• 1:23:37Speaker 01

  You've got iron, you've got fat, you've got protein and creatine. It's all packed in that one superfood.

• 1:23:44Speaker 02

  It is, and people, there's a lot of people that live very healthily off a carnivore diet and that astounds people. They don't understand it because they've been pushed into this idea. Well, one of the things they did in America that's great is they reversed the food pyramid. Our food pyramid was all grains at the bottom, was all wheat and grains, which is like, there's nothing wrong with eating that as long as you're being smart about it. You don't eat too much of it, but if that's your primary diet, like guess what? Your insulin's gonna spike. You're gonna be hungry all the time. You're gonna get fat. This is not good. It's not good to eat that way.

• 1:24:15Speaker 01

  When I cut the carbs out and I went basically into ketosis, I felt great because instead of having all the ups and downs when my blood sugar was down, when you're in ketosis, you, you basically live off your fat stores.

• 1:24:30Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:24:30Speaker 01

  You have like a consistent flow of energy whenever you need it, because I've obviously, I've got some here. And, and so I, I feel lighter. I have to sleep less now. I don't have to sleep as much because I don't, I don't eat the big, heavy carbs. I cheat once in a while, but, but the big, heavy carbs that your body breaks down, you gotta, you gotta sleep more to work through all those heavy carbs, so.

• 1:24:50Speaker 02

  Only feel it when you eat them. I love carbs. Don't get me wrong. Like I love, I'm Italian. I love spaghetti.

• 1:24:57Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:24:57Speaker 02

  I love pizza. I love Italian subs. I love them, but I eat them sparingly.

• 1:25:01Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 1:25:02Speaker 02

  And when I eat them, I feel it. I feel it. Like it's amazing while you're eating it and then you're like, oh. You get hit with a tranquilizer dart. It's just not good. It's not good for you. If I eat a steak, I feel great. If I eat a steak, I don't feel, I don't feel in any way tired after I'm done. I don't feel exhausted, like completely full. Also, they have a high satiety rate. Like, if you eat just steak, you're only gonna eat what you need. Like, your body knows when to stop. But if there's mashed potatoes next to the steak, and spaghetti next to the steak, and bread, and all these other things, you're just gonna keep eating.

• 1:25:37Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:25:38Speaker 02

  And then cake, and butter, and ice, or not butter, but like cake, and ice cream, and all this other shit, you're gonna keep eating. And you're gonna consume excess calories.

• 1:25:46Speaker 01

  But beef is really expensive now. Like, it's really hard to put a steak on your plate, uh, these, for the average guy. It's, it's insane. It's twice as expensive as pork in Canada right now.

• 1:25:56Speaker 02

  Well, there's also this dumb narrative that cows are responsible for climate change, which is just absolutely insane. And whoever started promoting that needs to go to jail. Cause it's, you've done a terrible disservice to people. Especially regenerative farming, that's, you know, actually sequesters carbon.

• 1:26:13Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 1:26:14Speaker 02

  And it's, it's healthy for you.

• 1:26:15Speaker 01

  No, the farming, the ranchers in my area are fantastic. They produce an incredible product. We got this, the, the, North America has the smallest cattle herd since 1951 this year.

• 1:26:26Speaker 02

  That's nuts.

• 1:26:27Speaker 01

  Very small herd, and that's why it's so hard to get beef.

• 1:26:29Speaker 02

  Why is that?

• 1:26:30Speaker 01

  Um, I think, uh, I think there's been a demand spike in the last couple of years. Beef prices were low for long, so a lot of ranchers got out of it. They just said, we can't, I can't stay in this business, losing money every year. And then all of a sudden, prices started to go up. And, uh, and moods have changed a lot on beef, even in the last three, four years. So now they're trying to keep up with the demand. But, um, I'm like, I'm happy to see the, the ranchers doing well. But I'd sure like to see middle-class families to be able to afford. To have beef again. But you know, my theory on one of the reasons why the marketing has shifted towards all this processed crap, and this goes back to my obsession, which is inflation, because what

• 1:27:13Speaker 01

  instead of just raising the prices, they downgrade the quality of the food, they strip out the nutrients, and they inject garbage into our food, the companies do, that is ultimately less nutritious, but the price tag doesn't necessarily look like it's changing. So it's one of the more insidious ways that the system is able to charge you, to pass inflationary costs on, without you seeing it in that, the price tag that's underneath the product.

• 1:27:43Speaker 02

  They also engineer food to be compulsive, like you're more compulsive.

• 1:27:48Speaker 01

  Is that right?

• 1:27:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, sure, especially like chips and stuff like that in America.

• 1:27:52Speaker 01

  What country do you think does nutrition the best around the world?

• 1:27:55Speaker 02

  Well, that's a good question. Well, Japan has one of the lowest obesity rates, right? And when you look at Japanese food, like what is it? It's like fish and rice and vegetables, and it's, they don't use glyphosate, I don't think. I think, I think the way they process their wheat is very different than ours. You know, we have a higher glycine, we have higher gluten in our wheat, because like, we have more complex glutens in our wheat, so we have higher yield, and then on top of that, they dry all the wheat out with glyphosate at the end, which is fucking terrible for you.

• 1:28:30Speaker 01

  Interesting.

• 1:28:31Speaker 02

  And they were trying to ban that in America, but then Trump passed an executive order stopping it. So this is one of the things that Kennedy kind of ran on, is that he wanted to stop the ubiquitous use of glyphosate.

• 1:28:45Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:28:46Speaker 02

  And especially glyphosate, you know, used with wheat to dry it out. So it's not used as an herbicide, it's used to dry out the wheat at the end, so that it doesn't get moldy, which is crazy. You're spraying poison on wheat, and...

• 1:29:04Speaker 02

  Most Americans, if you test them, have glyphosate in their blood. You know, and the apologists will say, oh, but it's at safe levels. Well, we don't even really know what that means. We're talking about decades and decades of consuming this stuff. That can't be good. I mean, it literally kills plants. It destroys gut bacteria. It can't be good. It would be better. When you eat overseas, like if I eat pasta or bread in Italy, you feel better. It doesn't kill you like it does in America. It doesn't like, oh, you don't get that same feeling.

• 1:29:36Speaker 01

  Interesting. I didn't know, I don't know anything about glyphosate. But one of the things I-

• 1:29:41Speaker 02

  Do you guys use glyphosate in Canada?

• 1:29:43Speaker 01

  I don't know anything about it. I feel bad saying that, but I should do my homework on that one.

• 1:29:47Speaker 02

  Well, we have corn that's engineered to survive glyphosate. We have round-up-ready corn. So that you could spray glyphosate on the corn that kills all the other things that you don't want growing.

• 1:29:58Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:29:58Speaker 02

  But how is that, how can that be good? Like, most Amer- like, they did a test of California wines. And what was the number? It was like some preposterous number of California wines tested positive for glyphosate.

• 1:30:15Speaker 01

  Is that right?

• 1:30:16Speaker 02

  Like, in the high 90s, I think.

• 1:30:17Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:30:18Speaker 02

  Which is just nuts.

• 1:30:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't know anything about glyphosate, I have to admit. I'll do my research. You've piqued my curiosity.

• 1:30:25Speaker 02

  The problem is, in America, our food system is entirely dependent on it at this point. You know, they want to change it, and so there's a lot of strategies. One of them is they have these machines that use lasers. And these lasers go over a field and actually target the weeds. So instead of spraying poison on them, they just zap these weeds and they can identify the difference between the weed and the crop.

• 1:30:49Speaker 01

  Really?

• 1:30:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:30:50Speaker 01

  That's incredible.

• 1:30:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:30:52Speaker 00

  The wine was 10 out of 10 tested, but this is-

• 1:30:54Speaker 02

  10 out of 10.

• 1:30:55Speaker 00

  I was looking at the Japanese obesity thing. They have an interesting law that they put in place in 2008 where, I believe it says workplaces have to measure people's waist of adults over 40 to find out if they're potentially overweight.

• 1:31:10Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 1:31:10Speaker 00

  Those people don't get fined, the companies get fined. So they have to then provide them counseling, diet advice, exercise guidance, et cetera. And they also use a lower BMI than we do. There's, it starts at 25. It says it's because they have a higher risk in Asian populations for obesity.

• 1:31:30Speaker 02

  Interesting. I wonder why that is. I wonder if that's because of a lot of rice consumption.

• 1:31:36Speaker 01

  Way lower, four percent, six, four point, four to six percent compared to forty-two percent.

• 1:31:40Speaker 02

  Wow, that's crazy. Their obesity rates are four to six percent and we're forty-two. Forty-two is nuts. Forty-two is so crazy.

• 1:31:51Speaker 01

  Find out what the Japanese are doing. My next stop has got to be Tokyo.

• 1:31:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, they eat healthy food, you know, and that, but that does make sense. I mean, implementing something like that, it sounds very restrictive, you know? I mean, I don't want to tell a guy he can't have a gut. Like, I have a lot of friends that are fat and I love them to death. I'd like them to be healthy, but I wouldn't, you know, I don't believe you should have that kind of control over people. I think you should encourage healthy behavior. I don't think you should mandate it.

• 1:32:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, we need, we need carrots, not sticks.

• 1:32:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:32:22Speaker 01

  Carrots, literally.

• 1:32:24Speaker 02

  Literally.

• 1:32:25Speaker 01

  But the, the system is like, um, you know, I think of the opioid thing. That's an incredible story, really.

• 1:32:31Speaker 02

  That's a horrible story. That's a horrible story. And, you know, the fact that no one's going to jail for that is infuriating.

• 1:32:38Speaker 01

  They should.

• 1:32:39Speaker 02

  What they did and what the, the deception that they use to pretend that that stuff is not addictive, that it's not the same as heroin, is just absolutely atrocious. And the fact that they got away with it and that the Sackler family, just that one family, I don't know if you've ever seen the Netflix docu-drama series?

• 1:32:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:32:58Speaker 02

  Painkill, or was it, was it called Painkiller?

• 1:33:02Speaker 01

  They're the guys from Purdue, right? Purdue Pharma. I think they were Purdue Pharma, if I'm not mistaken.

• 1:33:08Speaker 02

  I mean, how many lives were destroyed by that?

• 1:33:11Speaker 01

  Well, half a million ended in the US.

• 1:33:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, at least.

• 1:33:16Speaker 01

  Fifty thousand in Canada. We lost, we lost more people in the last ten years to opioid overdoses than we lost fighting in the Second World War.

• 1:33:25Speaker 02

  Oh my god, that's so crazy.

• 1:33:27Speaker 01

  And we, you know, these companies, I mean, it started in the States with Purdue and a number of others where they basically started lying to the system and paying, they actually paid bonuses to distributors for every overdose they caused. They actually tracked the overdoses and then paid bonuses to distributors because that was an indicator of how successfully they were pushing the drugs on to doctors and pharmacists and the system.

• 1:33:55Speaker 02

  No way.

• 1:33:56Speaker 01

  It all came out in the court because there was a huge lawsuit and the companies had to pay fifty billion dollars because of an American government lawsuit against them, but they actually paid bonuses for overdose rates.

• 1:34:08Speaker 02

  That is insane.

• 1:34:11Speaker 01

  It's wild and they basically, they were very, very strategic. They said, we're going to go to working class neighborhoods where there's huge unemployment. So you know, in the Rust Belt of America where people were out of work and they obviously had some minor industrial injuries and said, you know, this will solve every ache and pain. Take OxyContin and it felt great when they first started taking it and then it spread into Canada as well. And then it mutated in from OxyContin into Fentanyl, which is a hundred times more powerful than heroin. It can stop your lungs in fifteen seconds, just absolutely deadly. And we, you know, these companies, these dirtbag companies should be paying hundreds of billions

• 1:34:55Speaker 01

  of dollars to cover the treatment and recovery of the people whose lives have been ruined by this.

• 1:35:00Speaker 02

  Well, it's just insane that they only had to pay a percentage of the amount of money that they profited.

• 1:35:06Speaker 01

  It is insane. They should have gone to jail.

• 1:35:10Speaker 02

  They should have gone to jail. They should have had to pay, first of all, give all the money back.

• 1:35:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:35:14Speaker 02

  I mean, what you did was unbelievably evil.

• 1:35:17Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 1:35:18Speaker 02

  And you were allowed to profit from it, which is crazy.

• 1:35:21Speaker 01

  For years.

• 1:35:22Speaker 02

  Even the Sackler family, the amount that they got fined was a small percentage of what they actually made.

• 1:35:27Speaker 01

  I don't know how people live with themselves when they do that.

• 1:35:30Speaker 02

  They're sociopaths. They have to be.

• 1:35:32Speaker 01

  They basically got into the entire system, the healthcare system, the medical community, and they pushed these over prescriptions. And then they got this crazy idea that they pushed in places like Portland and Seattle and San Francisco, that the government should start giving out opioids that are safer than the ones that are on the street as an alternative to keep people. From having contaminated drugs, which made the problem even worse because those the addicts would sell those to kids so that they could buy the harder stuff off the street and it expanded it even more. And so one of the things we're focused on in my plan is massive treatment and recovery programs to get people off drugs. Abstinence-based treatment is incredible.

• 1:36:15Speaker 01

  It gets very successful and we're saving lives now in Canada. You get them in, you get them counseling, group therapy, treatment, sweat lodges for First Nations. People's physical exercise is a big part of it. I went to one treatment center in Saskatchewan and they actually bought these rusted-out weights and they had the guys like lifting weights and the bureaucrats are saying, well, why are you spending money on weights? What does that have to do with it? He says, well, it's been the best thing we had. These guys started to see their biceps grow and they're like, I want to look like this and if I take drugs, I'm not going to look like this. So it was one of the best things they did. Then you get them into jobs and treatment and there's one guy that I met in B.C. He was going to kill himself.

• 1:36:56Speaker 01

  He drove his car into a brick wall because he was so ruined by his addiction, but he didn't die. He couldn't even pull it off. So he actually went into treatment, turned his life around, started a business. He's got six employees and now he's going out on the street and like helping, you know, pulling guys off the street and bringing them in and saving their lives. So it's actually a really hopeful ending to the story if we can get to shift all our resources over to treatment and recovery services, which is one of my big objectives.

• 1:37:24Speaker 02

  Are you aware of Ibogaine?

• 1:37:25Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:37:26Speaker 02

  So former Republican governor of Texas, Rick Perry, is involved in this Ibogaine initiative here in Texas. And one of the things that they found, you know, he works very closely with veterans and, you know, obviously a lot of these guys, they come back from the war, they have PTSD, they have a lot of pain, they get addicted to pills and then they have an incredibly difficult time getting off of it. And there's a treatment called Ibogaine and Ibogaine comes from the iboga tree. It's like a natural psychedelic that has no recreational use whatsoever. It's not fun and it's apparently a brutal 24-hour experience, but it rewires the brain,

• 1:38:11Speaker 02

  stops the pathways of addiction and just one Ibogaine treatment, one session.

• 1:38:17Speaker 02

  The amount of people that never go back to using those drugs is in the 80%.

• 1:38:24Speaker 01

  Really?

• 1:38:24Speaker 02

  When they do two sessions, it's in the 90s.

• 1:38:27Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 1:38:28Speaker 02

  It's incredible. So they're implementing it here. And Rick Perry, who was like a staunch, anti-drug, hard-line Republican guy, great guy, but realized from talking to these veterans, maybe you have to have an open mind and look at this. We have this blanket term that we use for drugs. And we say, oh, ibogaine's a drug. You don't want to take drugs. But this psychedelic, this ibogaine, apparently, it's like a 24-hour review of your life that in some way, some chemical way rewires your system and stops the pathways of addiction.

• 1:39:07Speaker 01

  It's like a factory reset.

• 1:39:08Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:39:09Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 1:39:09Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:39:10Speaker 01

  That's crazy.

• 1:39:10Speaker 02

  And so they're starting to implement it here in Texas, and they're gonna use it

• 1:39:14Speaker 01

  So have they studied this? Have they done like a...

• 1:39:16Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:39:16Speaker 01

  And they've done, is it approved, like as a treatment?

• 1:39:18Speaker 02

  Well, it's being approved here in Texas. And they're trying to do it in other places. And I know a friend of mine, my friend Ed Clay, he started a center down in Mexico. And the reason why he did it was because he got hooked on pills. He hurt his back. He got hooked on pills. He had to figure out how to get off of it. And he did one ibogaine session, got clean.

• 1:39:37Speaker 01

  Really?

• 1:39:37Speaker 02

  And was like, I need to educate people and help people with this.

• 1:39:41Speaker 01

  This is wild.

• 1:39:41Speaker 02

  And we start this system. And, you know, and it's very successful. I know multiple people that have done it. And especially veterans that have done it and had profound changes in their life because of this.

• 1:39:54Speaker 01

  It's amazing.

• 1:39:54Speaker 02

  Yeah. And again, there's no recreational use for this. There's no chance of abusing it.

• 1:39:59Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:39:59Speaker 02

  It's not fun. Like, to get people to do it twice is very hard.

• 1:40:03Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:40:04Speaker 02

  But even doing it once. But if you do it, it's incredibly effective. Much more effective than any other form of therapy.

• 1:40:11Speaker 01

  Really?

• 1:40:12Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:40:12Speaker 01

  Okay. Well, I'll have to look out for that one, because we need it. We still have a challenge up in Canada.

• 1:40:16Speaker 02

  I can connect you with Rick Perry.

• 1:40:18Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:40:18Speaker 02

  And he's, he's, him and Brian Hubbard are incredible with their, the advocacy and the promotion of this. What they've done is really amazing.

• 1:40:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, we gotta, we gotta get, get people off these drugs. And, you know, we're doing, we're making some good progress in Canada. Our biggest challenges are... Are just the long-term aftermath of the opioid problem like you have had down here. But, um, but like I think, uh, I think we can overcome it. And, uh, we have to try some new things in order to get people off these things. Cause they're, cause it's, when you're doing fentanyl, it's, it's Russian roulette.

• 1:40:54Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:40:54Speaker 01

  Could be, you, you might not have more than a day to live if you're still taking that stuff.

• 1:40:58Speaker 02

  So it's so dangerous.

• 1:40:59Speaker 01

  It's an emergency.

• 1:41:00Speaker 02

  And it's in everything. It's in so many different, um, street versions of pills that people think are safe.

• 1:41:07Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:41:07Speaker 02

  Like Xanax, there's like illegal Xanax, like street Xanax, and there's fentanyl in them. People take it and they die.

• 1:41:13Speaker 01

  Right. Absolutely. I've met so many mothers. They just come up to me at my rallies and things and they tell me the story and they show me a picture. And you say, man, it's a beautiful child. That child looks healthy and smart and she went to a party and they were handing the shit out and.

• 1:41:27Speaker 02

  There's a high school kid here in town that took, uh, a street Adderall and it had fentanyl in it and he died.

• 1:41:33Speaker 01

  Is that right?

• 1:41:34Speaker 02

  Yeah. Somebody sold him what he thought was Adderall. Look, that's what killed Prince. That's what killed Tom Petty.

• 1:41:39Speaker 01

  Adderall?

• 1:41:40Speaker 02

  Uh, no, no, fentanyl.

• 1:41:41Speaker 01

  Fentanyl.

• 1:41:42Speaker 02

  They got street drugs from someone, like they're both in pain and they, they become addicted to the pills. And then they got like a pill from a roadie.

• 1:41:50Speaker 01

  I didn't know that.

• 1:41:51Speaker 02

  And took it and died.

• 1:41:52Speaker 01

  I didn't know that. Petty, did he sing, uh, Last Dance?

• 1:41:55Speaker 02

  Uh, Last Dance for Mary Jane. Yeah.

• 1:41:58Speaker 01

  That's really sad.

• 1:41:59Speaker 02

  Oh, he sung a bunch of amazing songs. American Girl. I mean, Tom Petty was a legend and died because of fentanyl. Prince is one of the great musical genius of, of human history.

• 1:42:09Speaker 01

  And fentanyl got him too.

• 1:42:10Speaker 02

  Died from fentanyl. Yeah. He had hip pain. He needed a hip replacement. His hip was blown out and he was in agony all the time. So he started taking pills and then next thing you know, you're hooked. And I've had family members that got hooked on it.

• 1:42:22Speaker 01

  Is that right?

• 1:42:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:42:23Speaker 01

  Did they get through it?

• 1:42:24Speaker 02

  Well, one of them didn't. Yeah. I mean, he, he hurt his back doing construction and started taking pills and now he's a waste.

• 1:42:32Speaker 01

  That's the sad thing. That's the sad thing is it's, they're good people and they're not lawbreaking people.

• 1:42:38Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:42:38Speaker 01

  Often it's folks who work in physically demanding jobs. They get an injury.

• 1:42:42Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 1:42:43Speaker 01

  And, uh, it's easy to judge, but when you're in excruciating pain and you find something that makes it go away. It's understandable.

• 1:42:51Speaker 02

  Also, if you're not educated in these subjects and you just trust the doctor, you go to a doctor and the doctor says you need pain medication and then all of a sudden you're on it.

• 1:43:01Speaker 01

  It's easy to see how people get locked into that and then they can't break loose.

• 1:43:07Speaker 02

  Well, the pathway to physical addiction is it's so well known and studied. It's very, very addictive, which is why it's so horrific that they actually promoted the fact that these things are not addictive when they were promoting them.

• 1:43:19Speaker 01

  They knew exactly what they were doing. They were absolute crooks and I'm hoping we get big settlements out of them the way you did down here and I want to put all that money into treatment and recovery, get people off these drugs and rescue them. I think we can save these lives. The treatment, it works. It's tough. Like the people who go through it, they say it was the worst experience of my life to go through that withdrawal, but it can be done and you come out stronger on the other side.

• 1:43:44Speaker 02

  It can be done and I think the most important thing is prevention and education and letting kids know like, hey, this is not what you want to get involved with. You want to have a happy, successful life. This is going to stop that. This is going to keep you from having it. This might kill you and it's definitely going to ruin you.

• 1:44:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, but you're right about fitness though, because when I was young, I hung around with a lot of people who got into a lot of trouble and I could have ended up there. The reason I didn't frankly is sports. I had something else to drive me. So it's one of the reasons why we need to get our young people's active in sporting activities when they're in that age group, because if you're not giving them an outlet, then they'll end up down that scary path.

• 1:44:22Speaker 02

  Oh, 100%. And also you realize that if you want to be effective in sports, like you can't party.

• 1:44:27Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:44:28Speaker 02

  It's like it'll rob you of your vitality. It'll rob you of your performance.

• 1:44:32Speaker 01

  When I played hockey and I showed up a few times hungover and I was just shit, like I was terrible. But you learn pretty quick that you got to be on your game. So we've got to promote more of the fitness at the youth level as well. And is that happening here? It's funny. I remember when I came down here as a 16 year old. I haven't been here in 30 years.

• 1:44:54Speaker 01

  We we got into town and the people who were hosting us were driving us to their home and we saw the stadium. There's like 20,000 people and it was in Houston and I said, is that the Cowboys playing? And they said, no, no, that's a that's a high school league. It's like, okay, in Canada, we don't have high school leagues with 20,000 people coming out. But um but the sports are so massive here.

• 1:45:17Speaker 02

  Oh, football is gigantic here. It's a religion.

• 1:45:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's incredible.

• 1:45:22Speaker 02

  It's crazy and.

• 1:45:22Speaker 01

  Who do you cheer for, by the way?

• 1:45:24Speaker 02

  In in Texas?

• 1:45:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, for you, you personally?

• 1:45:27Speaker 02

  Well, I I've got into UT football.

• 1:45:29Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:45:30Speaker 02

  I really love going to the UT games. It's uh it's so fun and it's so, they're so enthusiastic and they're they they just love it. It's like when you're a part of it, when the touchdowns get scored and everybody's cheering, it's like it's it's so contagious.

• 1:45:46Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:45:46Speaker 02

  It's really amazing. And it's just like the enthusiasm they have for it. It's like, you're like, wow, like this is a great, these people love this here. Yeah, but I've I've been to high school football games and it's the same thing, like packed stadiums for high school football games. And you're like, this is nuts, man. These people love their sports.

• 1:46:02Speaker 01

  We're like that for hockey in Canada.

• 1:46:04Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:46:04Speaker 01

  It's serious, serious, like parents are very fixated and I think I think it's actually a good thing. Some people say, oh, it's terrible. I think it's great to have parents that are competitive because they're pushing their kids to be better and more excellent. And even if they don't end up as NHL hockey players, it gives them the competitive ed and I want us to be a more competitive society.

• 1:46:23Speaker 02

  Well, when I was a kid, I I worked at the Boston Athletic Club. Uh and uh one of the people that I I was a fitness instructor when I was 19 and one of the people that I worked with was Bobby Orr.

• 1:46:34Speaker 01

  Oh, really?

• 1:46:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, Bobby Orr used to come there and train and we used to have to help him get on the VersaClimber machine because his body was so wrecked.

• 1:46:42Speaker 01

  Really?

• 1:46:42Speaker 02

  He had so many surgeries. His knees were so destroyed. He had scars all up and down his knee. Because he he had knee surgery back when they were just experimenting, you know, they didn't really know how to fix knees. They just cut you open, screwed things back together again, then it would blow apart again. And then you'd wind up having another surgery. So he had many, many knee surgeries and he could barely walk.

• 1:47:06Speaker 01

  But he was still doing some kind of physical activity?

• 1:47:08Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, he was playing racquetball. He was.

• 1:47:10Speaker 01

  How old was he at the time?

• 1:47:12Speaker 02

  This was nineteen eighty six, so, I mean.

• 1:47:18Speaker 01

  Geez, that's like, what, forty years ago.

• 1:47:20Speaker 02

  Uh huh, yeah, so he was, you know, he was probably in his fifties, forties or fifties.

• 1:47:27Speaker 01

  Now, he was a legend.

• 1:47:28Speaker 02

  He could barely walk. I mean, he, his knees didn't straighten out.

• 1:47:32Speaker 01

  Really?

• 1:47:32Speaker 02

  They, they were always like slightly bent and they only bent that much. His range of motion was very small. So you had to help him, like, get on machines, but the nicest guy.

• 1:47:42Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:47:42Speaker 02

  A legend. Like, you couldn't believe he was really there.

• 1:47:45Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:47:45Speaker 02

  He would walk into the, the gym and you're like, oh my god, this is really, yeah, as I was nineteen, I never met a famous person. And I was like, that's Bobby Orr.

• 1:47:52Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 1:47:53Speaker 02

  This is nuts. But it also made me realize, like, boy, knee surgeries, no joke. Like, this guy was like an incredible athlete. And now he can't even straighten his leg out.

• 1:48:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's all temporary. You gotta take care of yourself.

• 1:48:05Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:48:06Speaker 01

  Do you, do you have, like, residual injuries from fighting back in, in the day?

• 1:48:11Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, yeah, I've had three knee surgeries, two reconstructions.

• 1:48:15Speaker 01

  Was that from Taekwondo?

• 1:48:16Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm, yeah, and jiu-jitsu. One of, one of my ACL injuries was from, uh, jiu-jitsu.

• 1:48:21Speaker 01

  And what, uh, like, what injuries are the most common in jiu-jitsu?

• 1:48:25Speaker 02

  Knees, backs, necks, shoulders, those are the big ones, elbows.

• 1:48:30Speaker 01

  Is that because of the, the arm bars and all that stuff?

• 1:48:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, not tapping, that's a big one. A lot of, a lot of guys get hurt just because their ego, because they don't wanna tap.

• 1:48:39Speaker 01

  And you don't, you don't strike me as the type of guy who taps very quickly.

• 1:48:42Speaker 02

  Well, when I was younger, I was really stupid and I, I wasn't into tapping.

• 1:48:46Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:48:47Speaker 02

  But, uh, as I got older, I got a lot smarter. Fortunately, I got a lot better, so I wasn't like in a situation where I had to tap a lot.

• 1:48:55Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:48:55Speaker 02

  But if I did, I did. I just tapped. And that's the smart thing to do. And I would tell people, treat it like you're playing basketball. Don't treat it like it's your life or death. The game is life or death. The game is, if a guy gets you in an arm bar, he's essentially breaking your arm. If he breaks your arm, he can kill you.

• 1:49:10Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:49:11Speaker 02

  That's the game, but don't treat it like that. Treat it like you can tap and keep going. Or you can not tap and your arm's gonna be destroyed maybe for the rest of your life.

• 1:49:21Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:49:22Speaker 02

  And I've seen that happen with people where their their forearm snaps and they have to have plates in it and then it's a chronic injury for the rest of their life.

• 1:49:29Speaker 01

  Right, yeah, no, I can imagine that. And what about in in Taekwondo? Like you you told the story once about how you really clocked a guy. I think it was a wheel kick or something?

• 1:49:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:49:38Speaker 01

  And that like freaked you out?

• 1:49:39Speaker 02

  That changed my whole outlook on fighting because I realized that could happen to me. And I I had knocked people out before, but I'd never knocked anybody out where they didn't get up. Like usually they get up and they're wobbly and you know, they get sat down and you know, medics take care of them and you know, after a while they're walking around. And this guy never got up and I never really got over that. I never had the same lust for hurting people. Cause it was just, I was young, you know, I was 19 and when you're 19, you think you're invincible. Or you don't you don't think about the consequence. I knew I could get hurt. I've been hurt before. I've been kicked really hard and punched really hard before.

• 1:50:20Speaker 02

  I knew I was vulnerable, but I didn't think there was gonna be anything permanent.

• 1:50:25Speaker 01

  Did the guy ever get out of the hospital?

• 1:50:26Speaker 02

  I don't know.

• 1:50:27Speaker 01

  Really?

• 1:50:28Speaker 02

  I don't know what happened to him. I don't know what happened to him.

• 1:50:30Speaker 01

  Maybe he'll hear this show and give you a call and say that he's all right.

• 1:50:33Speaker 02

  Oh, no, no, he probably don't want to talk to me.

• 1:50:36Speaker 01

  Well, your your spinning back kick is incredible. I saw you in GSP doing that video where you were showing him how to do the back kick.

• 1:50:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:50:43Speaker 01

  Did he ever use that in a fight?

• 1:50:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, he did. Yeah, he did.

• 1:50:46Speaker 01

  He landed it?

• 1:50:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, he used it a lot. It's a thing that like it you have to almost grow up doing it.

• 1:50:53Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:50:53Speaker 02

  You know, unless you're dealing, like John Jones developed it later in his career.

• 1:50:58Speaker 01

  I saw that.

• 1:50:58Speaker 02

  He's a wizard.

• 1:50:59Speaker 01

  But he kind of like started implementing it like sort of three, two thirds through his career. Did you teach him how to do that?

• 1:51:05Speaker 02

  No, no, I did not. He worked with a Taekwondo coach in Albuquerque.

• 1:51:08Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:51:08Speaker 02

  And he just really worked on that one technique specifically when he went up to heavyweight. Cause the guys would be first of all, less agile and mobile. And also it was the kind of technique where he could stop a guy with one shot.

• 1:51:20Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:51:20Speaker 02

  And when your guy's smaller than most heavyweights, which John is, cause he was a light heavyweight. So he was fighting at 205 most of his career and just as a challenge decided to go up to heavyweight. But he's so intelligent. He realized like, I need a one shot that I could put people away. So he spent hours and hours every week. Just going over the spinning back kick.

• 1:51:41Speaker 01

  Really? To the body or the head?

• 1:51:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, the body.

• 1:51:43Speaker 01

  The body.

• 1:51:43Speaker 02

  Yeah. It's like getting hit by a car.

• 1:51:45Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:51:45Speaker 02

  You get hit with that. Like a wheel kick to the head is really difficult to develop. That's, it's like a fast twitch thing that, it's almost like your body has to evolve and grow doing that, to really develop the kind of speed that you could pull it off on a skilled opponent in a fight.

• 1:52:03Speaker 01

  And the accuracy, like to try and time that all, that must be incredible.

• 1:52:07Speaker 02

  I mean, there's, there's freak athletes that could pick it up later in life. There's some people that are just really good at everything. They just have amazing dexterity and coordination and, but for most people, you, like I learned it when I was a kid. So like my body matured doing those things.

• 1:52:23Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:52:24Speaker 02

  My body matured kicking and it became a part of like just my average, like normal movement of life.

• 1:52:30Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:52:30Speaker 02

  You know?

• 1:52:31Speaker 01

  That's amazing. And the, the spinning back kick though, is it typically a body kick?

• 1:52:37Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:52:37Speaker 01

  You throw with that?

• 1:52:37Speaker 02

  Well, you throw, I've thrown it to the face too, especially a jump spinning back kick to the face.

• 1:52:41Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 1:52:42Speaker 02

  But, um, the, the one-

• 1:52:44Speaker 01

  Taekwondo, wasn't it really the Koreans that developed so they could actually kick a man off a horse in war? Is that why the kicks are so high?

• 1:52:51Speaker 02

  I don't think so. I think it was just because they were, they're smaller in stature and they realized that you had to have more powerful kicks.

• 1:52:57Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:52:58Speaker 02

  You know, like, cause your legs are always carrying your body around. There's a lot more mass to your muscles and your legs and there's a lot more force you could generate with your kicks.

• 1:53:06Speaker 01

  Did you ever see the fight between Rick Rufus and that Muay Thai guy?

• 1:53:11Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:53:12Speaker 01

  Wasn't that incredible?

• 1:53:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, that changed kickboxing. We've, we've showed that fight a hundred times on this podcast.

• 1:53:18Speaker 01

  It's amazing because it was like Americans versus Thai and, and Rufus-

• 1:53:22Speaker 02

  Well, we didn't really understand leg kicks.

• 1:53:24Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:53:24Speaker 02

  Because PKA karate, and I found this out later because of Benny Urquides who came in the podcast. He told me that the reason why they didn't allow leg kicks in PKA karate was because of Bill Wallace. So Bill "Superfoot" Wallace famously had one leg that he kicked with. It was because his other leg, he had a bad knee.

• 1:53:43Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:53:43Speaker 02

  And he didn't want anybody kicking his legs.

• 1:53:45Speaker 01

  Interesting.

• 1:53:46Speaker 02

  So he promoted this idea that only have above the waist kicks.

• 1:53:50Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:53:50Speaker 02

  And that's what we had in America. Like, that's what Genevieve Terrio fought.

• 1:53:53Speaker 01

  That's right. He did. He fought Rufus himself, actually.

• 1:53:56Speaker 02

  Yes, yeah.

• 1:53:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, that, that, that was incredible because if you looked at the, the art form, Rufus was so much more beautiful to watch than the Thai guy. He came in, he broke the guy's jaw in the first round, I think.

• 1:54:09Speaker 02

  He hurt him.

• 1:54:10Speaker 01

  He knocked him down a few times. Was it once or twice?

• 1:54:13Speaker 02

  He knocked him down a couple of times, I believe, but it was.

• 1:54:15Speaker 01

  And the guy just kept chopping his leg and, and then I think he, he went out in a, in a stretcher because his leg was busted in like nine places.

• 1:54:22Speaker 02

  He didn't know what to do. He didn't understand it. What was really interesting is his brother, Duke, became a Muay Thai world, world champion after that fight.

• 1:54:29Speaker 01

  Was that the, was that the, the guy who was at the fight commenting after the fight?

• 1:54:33Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:54:33Speaker 01

  Yes, I remember that.

• 1:54:34Speaker 02

  He was saying, it doesn't take any skill.

• 1:54:36Speaker 01

  Yes, I remember that.

• 1:54:37Speaker 02

  Well, he, he was embarrassed by that later in his life because he became one of the top MMA trainers.

• 1:54:41Speaker 01

  Really?

• 1:54:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:54:43Speaker 01

  And he, he took on Muay Thai?

• 1:54:44Speaker 02

  Yes. Well, he became a Muay Thai world champion and he developed Rufus Sport, which is a great gym in Milwaukee. A top gym, developed world champions like Anthony Pettis. So he was, uh, you know, he was a pioneer. It was one of the guys that had to figure it out. And, you know, he spent time in Thailand. They all, they all learned it. They had to learn.

• 1:55:01Speaker 01

  And where's the best place in Thailand to go? Is it Phuket? Is it Bangkok? Like, where do you go?

• 1:55:06Speaker 02

  Oh, there's so many good places. Thailand's the real motherland of Muay Thai, obviously. And it's like, you know, um, Phuket's amazing, uh, Bangkok's amazing. I mean, there's so many amazing gyms that are in, uh, in Thailand.

• 1:55:20Speaker 01

  They're tough. There's whole strips in Phuket. My wife and I were there on vacation once and we just stumbled on this whole street. And, uh, you could do, there was sort of American-style boxing. There was, there was a CrossFit-type thing. Then there was that Tiger Muay Thai and a bunch of other Muay Thai facilities. And then there's, there's like street vendors that would, were, were cooking meals specifically for people who are there training. Um, like you could buy a beautiful, hard-boiled eggs and, and avocado and, uh, chicken strips. This is like high protein just catered to the people who come from around the world to train for like five, six weeks in a, in a clinic.

• 1:55:57Speaker 02

  And there's people that do it just recreationally. My friend Mark, he's a, he's a businessman. He's in his 60s.

• 1:56:03Speaker 01

  And he did it?

• 1:56:03Speaker 02

  He went over to Thailand.

• 1:56:04Speaker 01

  Did he survive?

• 1:56:05Speaker 02

  Yeah. He sparrows all the time. I saw him the other day. He had a black eye. He's in his 60s. I'm like, what are you doing, man?

• 1:56:11Speaker 01

  So if you were starting from scratch and you wanted to be a MMA, would you do like, you go to Thailand and do like two months there and then go to Dagestan to learn how to wrestle? Is that, would that be the best combo?

• 1:56:23Speaker 02

  If you were starting out, if you were a kid, I would say wrestling. Wrestling's number one.

• 1:56:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:56:28Speaker 02

  That's the most important thing to learn because if a guy can take you down, he could do whatever he wants to you. If he could take you down and hold you down and beat you up. If you don't know how to wrestle, you can't fight.

• 1:56:38Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:56:38Speaker 02

  You need at least to learn wrestling, just to understand wrestling, take down defense.

• 1:56:43Speaker 01

  But you did jiu-jitsu later in life, didn't you?

• 1:56:45Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:56:46Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:56:46Speaker 02

  I didn't start jiu-jitsu until I was 29, I think. Yeah.

• 1:56:50Speaker 01

  And who do you like right now? Who do you think is the most interesting fighter to watch these days?

• 1:56:54Speaker 02

  Oh, there's so many. It's impossible to say the most interesting. There's a guy from Spain, Iliya Tapuria.

• 1:57:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, I really like Tapuria.

• 1:57:03Speaker 02

  He's what David Goggins calls uncommon amongst uncommon men.

• 1:57:09Speaker 01

  Want some more coffee?

• 1:57:10Speaker 02

  No, no, thank you. I'm good. Thank you. He's a freak. I mean, he's just incredibly talented. Weirdly talented. Like his last three fights, he knocked out three all-time greats.

• 1:57:21Speaker 01

  Holloway?

• 1:57:22Speaker 02

  Yeah. Holloway, Alexander, and Charles Olivera. So that's crazy. Volkanovski, who's like one of the greatest featherweights of all time, knocked him out. Knocked out Max Holloway, another, one of the greatest featherweights of all time.

• 1:57:41Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:57:41Speaker 02

  And then Charles Olivera, one of the greatest lightweights of all time. He knocks out three guys in three fights. There's no one has a resume like that.

• 1:57:47Speaker 01

  And he's not like, as I understand, he was a Greco-Roman guy.

• 1:57:51Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:57:51Speaker 01

  And he became a boxer later on.

• 1:57:54Speaker 02

  He's just talented.

• 1:57:56Speaker 01

  How do you describe?

• 1:57:59Speaker 01

  Like, so I'm not knowledgeable in this area, but the way he, he almost looks like he has a Philly shell.

• 1:58:04Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:58:05Speaker 01

  Is that a Philly shell, what he does with one arm down?

• 1:58:07Speaker 02

  Well, he has amazing defense. It's just amazing awareness and he, uh, pattern recognition, technique. It's, he's like, he's a combination of all things, right? Incredible confidence, incredible intelligence, insane discipline, work ethic. But just, uh, great training methods. Like, he does everything right. And then insane confidence. Like, his confidence is insane. He, when he fought Charles Olivera for the lightweight title, he celebrated his victory the night before. He had a party to celebrate the night before the fight. And then went out and knocked Charles out in the first round. And said he was gonna knock Charles out in the first round.

• 1:58:47Speaker 01

  That's incredible.

• 1:58:48Speaker 02

  One punch, boom!

• 1:58:49Speaker 01

  But you know what impresses me most about him is how he got up after that kick to the head he took.

• 1:58:53Speaker 02

  I know.

• 1:58:54Speaker 01

  That was incredible.

• 1:58:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:58:55Speaker 01

  And you know who else did that was GSP. Remember when GSP took that?

• 1:58:58Speaker 02

  Carlos Condit.

• 1:58:59Speaker 01

  And he went down, but he recovered quickly.

• 1:59:01Speaker 02

  Yup.

• 1:59:02Speaker 01

  And he was talking to me about how, cause I said to him, like in politics, you get hit, you get hit, right? And not, not physically, if you're lucky, but, but you have to be able to get up quickly and react to it. I asked him, how did you do it? How did you, like, how does your brain go from taking that kind of hit to getting back in the fight and turning it around? And he said he, like, it's two very deep breaths through the nose and then out through the mouth and get some oxygen back into your system and focus your mind. I thought that was an incredible lesson.

• 1:59:30Speaker 02

  Well, I mean, it's all in how you get kicked, cause you could just get knocked out.

• 1:59:35Speaker 01

  And then it's over.

• 1:59:36Speaker 02

  There's nothing you can do. If you get shut off, you get shut off.

• 1:59:39Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:59:39Speaker 02

  Certain people get shut off. It just, you just get kicked. You can get kicked and it kinda glances off of you, or you can get kicked and it just slams right in the side of your neck and it... The lights go dark.

• 1:59:50Speaker 01

  Right, but if you're if you're still able to recover and and think quickly, it's incredible to have that kind of pre-programming to ready you for a moment like that.

• 2:00:01Speaker 02

  Well, I mean, that's a big part of his, what I was talking about, the the camp that he comes from. I mean, Farah Sahabi is like one of the most intelligent and one of the most brilliant trainers in the sport.

• 2:00:12Speaker 01

  Who's this?

• 2:00:13Speaker 02

  Farah Sahabi, he's the guy from Montreal, Tristar.

• 2:00:16Speaker 01

  So he's the guy who trains his?

• 2:00:17Speaker 02

  Yes, trains GSP.

• 2:00:19Speaker 01

  Oh, GSP, okay, yes, okay.

• 2:00:21Speaker 02

  And I mean, I think that is, that's a big part of why GSP was able to recover. Like, they prepare for everything.

• 2:00:27Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:00:28Speaker 02

  You know, it's like, there's nothing left to chance. Like, he he hires people to try to knock George out in training. That was one of the things he did, he would give them more money if they could knock him out. So they would just, so he would be like, fully prepared.

• 2:00:41Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:00:41Speaker 02

  When he was fighting, like, they leave no stone uncovered.

• 2:00:45Speaker 01

  Don't you have to, like, budget, though, the number of headshots you take?

• 2:00:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, 100%, but he was pretty confident that George, I mean, it wasn't like he was doing this with a beginner.

• 2:00:52Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:00:52Speaker 02

  He was doing this with a world champion, one of the greatest of all time.

• 2:00:55Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 2:00:56Speaker 02

  And he, you know, he wanted George to be in danger, you know, so George had to fight like he was gonna fight inside the octagon.

• 2:01:02Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:01:03Speaker 02

  In danger.

• 2:01:04Speaker 01

  Because John Jones said somewhere that he had, like, every time he gets hit hard in in camp, he's he said, like, I just, that that's part of my brain budget that's that's been taken away.

• 2:01:15Speaker 02

  Well, that's why John's so smart, he he recognized that. There's a lot of people that don't think that way. John also famously won't take a fight on short notice.

• 2:01:24Speaker 01

  Is that right?

• 2:01:24Speaker 02

  He wants to be fully prepared for a fighter. Even a guy, like, when he fought Chael Sonnen, they offered him a Chael Sonnen fight on short notice and he said, no. Like, there is not a time, no disrespect to Chael, he's a great fighter.

• 2:01:37Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:01:37Speaker 02

  No, there's not a time on this life, in this earth, where Chael Sonnen is gonna beat John Jones. It's just not gonna happen. He could have taken that fight on one day's notice and still beat Chael Sonnen, he's that much better than him. But he still wouldn't take it. He's like, no, I want to be fully 100% prepared.

• 2:01:53Speaker 01

  That's smart, though.

• 2:01:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, also, he hated Chael. And so he wanted to make sure that there was not a chance that Chael could do anything to him that he would have been able to, wouldn't have been able to do if he was trained.

• 2:02:02Speaker 01

  Do these guys hate each other?

• 2:02:04Speaker 02

  Sometimes.

• 2:02:05Speaker 01

  Is it, but most of them, do they respect, or is it, it depends on the fight?

• 2:02:09Speaker 02

  It really depends. Like, when Ilija Topuria fought, um, Charles Olivera, he actually apologized to him before the fight. He said, "I'm sorry it has to be you. I really like you."

• 2:02:22Speaker 02

  Kinda crazy.

• 2:02:23Speaker 01

  He's gotta be careful though.

• 2:02:24Speaker 02

  But he's hated people too. He's hated people he fought too. I mean, there's some people that just rub you the wrong way. There's some people, there's strategies to get inside your head and fuck with you and, and for you to fight with emotion.

• 2:02:34Speaker 01

  Well, Habib with, um...

• 2:02:35Speaker 02

  Conor McGregor.

• 2:02:36Speaker 01

  With McGregor. He really hated McGregor. He was, he almost didn't let go when the tap happened, eh?

• 2:02:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:02:42Speaker 01

  That was, that was something else. Is Conor ever gonna come back, do you think?

• 2:02:46Speaker 02

  Only Conor knows. I mean, if he's going to, he has to do it soon. I mean, I think he's thirty... How old is he now? Thirty-seven?

• 2:02:55Speaker 01

  He, he's jacked now, eh?

• 2:02:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, not anymore.

• 2:02:58Speaker 01

  Oh, he came back down?

• 2:02:59Speaker 02

  He was, uh, on the Mexican supplements for a while.

• 2:03:02Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 2:03:02Speaker 02

  Because he was trying to, uh, recover from his, uh, leg break.

• 2:03:06Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:03:07Speaker 02

  So when he fought Dustin Poirier...

• 2:03:08Speaker 01

  I remember that.

• 2:03:09Speaker 02

  He got on some stuff to try to recover for that. I don't know what he got on, but clearly it helped. He got huge. He got super jacked. The problem with getting super jacked like that is then you get addicted to what got you super jacked. Cause you, if you're on steroids, you feel like Superman. You know, you, you feel like you could just run through walls. And then you get off of it, and now your endocrine system has to kinda catch up to the fact that you've been giving it exogenous testosterone for all these months. And so that takes a long time for you to get back to a normal, healthy level, so you feel like shit. It's hard for these guys to get off of steroids.

• 2:03:43Speaker 01

  Right, I can imagine. You get addicted to being that strong. I, I've never done it. I don't plan on it.

• 2:03:49Speaker 02

  How old is he?

• 2:03:50Speaker 01

  Thirty-seven, he's thirty-eight.

• 2:03:50Speaker 02

  Thirty-seven. Almost thirty-eight.

• 2:03:52Speaker 01

  That's getting up there. Who's the oldest fighter that's ever been in the octagon? Like, who's a serious competitor?

• 2:03:58Speaker 02

  Probably Randy Couture. I think Randy won the world title, the world heavyweight title in his 40s.

• 2:04:04Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 2:04:05Speaker 02

  Yeah. But Randy didn't even start his mixed martial arts career. I think, I think, I was there at his first fight in 1997, and I think he was 34 or 35 before he ever had an MMA fight. He was just an elite wrestler who, you know, made his way into MMA because, you know, there's no real professional outlet for actual amateur wrestling.

• 2:04:31Speaker 01

  Did you ever interact with the Gracies? Cause I remember way back in like, I remember MMA or UFC 2, it was the second one. That was when it really kicked. Cause the first one was a little bit strange. It was that big fat guy who's tooth went flying out.

• 2:04:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:04:43Speaker 01

  But number two was the one with Shamrock and Gracie and Dan Severn. Was he in number two? Dan Severn, the wrestler?

• 2:04:52Speaker 02

  I think he was later.

• 2:04:53Speaker 01

  It might've been three or four.

• 2:04:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:04:55Speaker 01

  But that was kind of the first generation.

• 2:04:57Speaker 02

  Uh huh.

• 2:04:58Speaker 01

  Of big names.

• 2:04:58Speaker 02

  Oh, Hoist Gracie changed the world.

• 2:05:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, with his, he was a slow style though, man. Like you had to have patience to watch him because he'd, he'd just lie on his back and wait, wait, wait.

• 2:05:08Speaker 02

  Well, with Dan Severn, he did, because he had to catch him in a triangle.

• 2:05:11Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:05:11Speaker 02

  He eventually tapped him and no one even understood what was going on. Like, why was he, he's got his legs wrapped around him? What the hell is going on?

• 2:05:18Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 2:05:18Speaker 02

  And then all of a sudden, Dan Severn's tapping out. You're like, this is crazy. So a man who weighed literally 100 pounds more than him, or close to it.

• 2:05:26Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:05:26Speaker 02

  On top of him and Hoist beat him.

• 2:05:28Speaker 01

  Well, Dan Severn didn't appear to have any finishing moves. Like he was thinking, I got you on your back. I've pinned you. I've won the wrestling match.

• 2:05:34Speaker 02

  He would kind of give you little noogies and knuckle sandwiches.

• 2:05:37Speaker 01

  But, but then of course, eventually that anaconda comes in and either chokes you out or takes your arm.

• 2:05:43Speaker 02

  Well, no one understood jiu-jitsu until Hoist came around, you know, other than the Brazilians.

• 2:05:47Speaker 01

  Wasn't it? His dad that introduced it to the family?

• 2:05:49Speaker 02

  His dad and his uncle. So it was Carlos Gracie and Ilio Gracie, who are the real founders of Brazilian jiu-jitsu, and then Carlson Gracie.

• 2:05:59Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 2:05:59Speaker 02

  And those guys were the pioneers and they were having no rules fights in the 1930s and 40s.

• 2:06:05Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 2:06:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:06:06Speaker 01

  And did they bring it over from Japan?

• 2:06:08Speaker 02

  Maeda brought it over from Japan and they taught the Gracies. And then, you know, Ilio Gracie famously had a match with Kimura, who was a Japanese judoka who- Broke Ilio's arm with a kimura and that's how that that technique, that's why it's called a kimura.

• 2:06:29Speaker 01

  Really?

• 2:06:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, in catch wrestling, they call it a double wrist lock.

• 2:06:32Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 2:06:33Speaker 02

  But we call it a kimura because kimura broke Ilio Gracie's arm with this. Ilio just refused to tap and it's like, ah, and eventually it snapped his arm.

• 2:06:43Speaker 01

  Wow, that's incredible.

• 2:06:44Speaker 02

  They're having these long, no rules fights in Brazil, long before anybody had any idea what MMA was in America. And then Hoise's brother, Hickson, who was the best out of all of them. Hickson was fighting people when he was 18 in like these big arenas.

• 2:07:02Speaker 01

  Really?

• 2:07:02Speaker 02

  In Brazil, yeah.

• 2:07:04Speaker 01

  Unbelievable. And then they, then I guess Dana White brought it in with UFC and then?

• 2:07:09Speaker 02

  No, it wasn't Dana. It was, uh, there, there was another organization before Zuffa owned the UFC. And this other organization, they started it with Horian Gracie. So Horian Gracie was the guy who founded the UFC.

• 2:07:24Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 2:07:24Speaker 02

  And originally, they were talking about putting like a moat around the cage and having crocodiles in it and shit. They wanted it to be like completely insane because what it was for Horian, Horian's a brilliant man and what, what for him, what he wanted was to promote jujitsu. And he's like, this is going to be the best way to open up schools all over the country and to show this art that my father had created.

• 2:07:47Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:07:47Speaker 02

  So they had really taken some of the ground techniques of judo and really refined them to a razor sharp edge. And, and also one of the things that helped a lot was that Ilio was a small man. He was only like 145 pounds. And so he had to use only technique and leverage. He couldn't rely on brute strength. And so it was one of the best sort of advertisements is to have Hoise, who was also fairly small, he was only 175 pounds, beat all these big giant muscle bound guys with pure technique because they didn't understand what he was doing. And he was like, this is going to be brilliant. This is gonna, and it worked. I mean, the, the, the name Gracie and jujitsu are synonymous.

• 2:08:29Speaker 01

  It's everywhere now. Like we even have them in Canada where these, these schools will have the Gracie name and obviously they have no attachment to Gracie's, uh, you're the Brazilian Gracies, but everybody wants to learn the Gracie style.

• 2:08:40Speaker 02

  Well, they probably do have a, like Gracie Baja, which is a huge affiliate of gyms. They're all over the country and the world. They're everywhere.

• 2:08:48Speaker 01

  Are they good?

• 2:08:48Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, there's like, it's very difficult to have a bad jujitsu gym today.

• 2:08:54Speaker 01

  Why is that? Because they're so competitive?

• 2:08:56Speaker 02

  It's too competitive.

• 2:08:57Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 2:08:57Speaker 02

  There's too many good people. There's too many good gyms. Like, in Austin alone, Austin alone has like ten amazing jujitsu schools.

• 2:09:04Speaker 01

  Is that right?

• 2:09:05Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:09:05Speaker 01

  Do you go, do you go enroll quite often?

• 2:09:07Speaker 02

  There's a place right up the street, 10th Planet Jiu-Jitsu, which is the school that I started with.

• 2:09:11Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 2:09:11Speaker 02

  In California. Well, I started with the Machado. Well, I actually started with Hicks and Gray. I started, I started with Hicks and Gracie, and then I went to Carlson Gracie, and then I, and that was just because I didn't know there was any difference in the Gracies, and then Carlson Gracie was closer to my house. I was like, oh, I'll go to this Gracie place, it's closer. This is when I was a white belt, I didn't know anything. And then, when they closed, when that gym closed, then I went to Jean-Jacques Machado's. And so, I started training there in 1998, and that was, um, that was in the valley in California. Uh, but then, um, one of Jean-Jacques' black belts, my best friend Eddie Bravo, he started 10th Planet Jiu-Jitsu, and then I, I trained there as well.

• 2:09:49Speaker 01

  Okay. And in Canada, we see a lot of places where they do Muay Thai and Jiu-Jitsu, so you get your striking and your grappling all in one studio.

• 2:09:57Speaker 02

  10th Planet here has a Muay Thai program, too.

• 2:09:59Speaker 01

  Oh, is that right?

• 2:09:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:09:59Speaker 01

  So, that's common now.

• 2:10:00Speaker 02

  A lot of those gyms have that.

• 2:10:01Speaker 01

  And you went to your first, as a commentator, you did it like for free, didn't you?

• 2:10:05Speaker 02

  No, no. I, I got paid in the early days, in the nineties, in nineteen ninety-seven, but it wasn't much.

• 2:10:11Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 2:10:12Speaker 02

  I was losing money. But when the UFC was purchased by Zuffa in two thousand and one, that was when I was on Fear Factor. And I met Dana White, and I became friends with him, and he asked me as a favor to do commentary on this one show that they had, UFC thirty-seven and a half. It was on Fox Sports, whatever it was, the, there was a cable channel, so it was best damn sports show period, had this UFC show. And he said, would you do me a favor and just do commentary on this one event?

• 2:10:43Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:10:43Speaker 02

  And I said, okay, I'll do it for this one. And he's like, I want you to do it again. And then, I was like, okay. So I I was like, I just wanted to do it for fun. Like for me, it's like, I like going to the fights and I like going with my friends and having a good time. And I did like the first 15 of them for free. I just, they, I knew they were hemorrhaging money and I didn't need any money.

• 2:11:04Speaker 01

  But you loved it. You loved being there. He was like a kid in a candy store.

• 2:11:07Speaker 02

  Well, also was very happy to try to promote this thing because for me, it was the ultimate expression of martial arts. Like, we need to find out what's the best style.

• 2:11:16Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:11:16Speaker 02

  And I'd kind of, I had been so engrossed in that world in Japan with Pride and all these other organizations that they had over there.

• 2:11:25Speaker 01

  It's like, what happens if an alligator fights with a tiger? What happens if a lion fights with a bear? We gotta match them up and find out.

• 2:11:31Speaker 02

  Well, it's humans versus humans, so it's just style. It's like we needed to know. Because you didn't want to waste your time doing something that didn't work.

• 2:11:39Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:11:40Speaker 02

  And there was a lot of people that wasted their time doing stuff that didn't work. And we didn't really know what that was until the UFC came along. And then we're like, oh, and now the evolution of martial arts from 1993, when the UFC started to 2026. In those years, martial arts have evolved more than they have in the last 30,000 years.

• 2:12:01Speaker 01

  Right. Well, it's like the, the gap between theory and practice.

• 2:12:05Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 2:12:05Speaker 01

  And like Bruce Lee, when he, when he, he started with Wing Chun. But he said that a lot of it was just ornamental and he called it dry land swimming.

• 2:12:16Speaker 02

  Mmm.

• 2:12:16Speaker 01

  It's like, you know, you wouldn't actually do that in a fight. And then he got into a lot of contention with the, the scholars of the art form. It's a very beautiful art form, Wing Chun, but I don't know if it, I can't imagine it works that well in a fight.

• 2:12:31Speaker 02

  Well, Wing Chun is effective. There's a lot of techniques in Wing Chun.

• 2:12:34Speaker 01

  If you got into a fistfight between like a Muay Thai guy and a Wing Chun guy, who would come out?

• 2:12:38Speaker 02

  The Muay Thai guy.

• 2:12:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:12:39Speaker 02

  But it doesn't mean that Wing Chun's not effective and you could use Wing Chun in Muay Thai.

• 2:12:44Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 2:12:44Speaker 02

  Or in an MMA fight, but you have to know everything.

• 2:12:47Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:12:47Speaker 02

  That's the reality of it. It's like Taekwondo. Like Taekwondo is not effective by itself in an MMA fight. But if you know MMA and you know Taekwondo, then you could do like what Edson Barboza did to Terry Edmonds and knock him out with a wheel kick in spectacular fashion. Like it's learning all the techniques.

• 2:13:04Speaker 01

  Like a big blend, right? Like you get some, some Muay Thai, some karate, some...

• 2:13:08Speaker 02

  Yes. That's what MMA is, mixed martial arts. I mean, it's like you take all, and that's Bruce Lee's philosophy, absorb what's useful. I mean, he was the real first mixed martial artist. And when it was very dangerous to do that, because people hated him. I mean, they would attack him. He would have, he would have to have fights with people because they, they thought that he was disrespecting their art.

• 2:13:30Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:13:30Speaker 02

  You know, and he combined western boxing and wrestling. He learned judo from Gene LaBelle. He learned things from everybody. He learned karate, savat. He learned all these different martial arts and was absorbing what's useful and putting his own. So Jeet Kune Do, his style, was really the first mixed martial arts style.

• 2:13:48Speaker 01

  Is that right?

• 2:13:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:13:49Speaker 01

  Do people use it anymore?

• 2:13:51Speaker 02

  Well, yeah, there's Jeet Kune Do schools, sure. Yeah, yeah. I mean, in a lot of what Krav Maga is, the Israeli martial art, is like kind of a, a combination of things along the same lines of the way Bruce Lee did it.

• 2:14:04Speaker 01

  Is it, is Krav Maga a good, effective martial arts system?

• 2:14:08Speaker 02

  Every martial arts system is effective if you have a great instructor.

• 2:14:12Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 2:14:13Speaker 02

  Right? But on their own, like, the best styles are the really strong styles, like jiu-jitsu, Muay Thai, wrestling. Those are the best, western boxing. Those are the best styles on their own.

• 2:14:25Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 2:14:26Speaker 02

  But what Krav Maga is, is a combination of all those styles. And so if you have a great instructor in Krav Maga, yeah, you'll, you'll learn great Muay Thai, you'll learn great jiu-jitsu. It's essentially mixed martial arts, but with a lot of emphasis on real world applications, street fights, you know, dirty stuff, like eye gouging, you know, poking people in the eye, kicking them in the nuts.

• 2:14:48Speaker 01

  Yikes.

• 2:14:49Speaker 02

  Stuff that works. But that's what you, like, you see it in an MMA fight all the time. A guy gets poked in the eyes, like, hang on, and he has to stop.

• 2:14:56Speaker 01

  Isn't that against the rules?

• 2:14:57Speaker 02

  This guy's getting punched and, it's against rules. So this guy's getting punched and kicked and, look, Tom Aspinall, he was in the heavyweight title fight and he got eye-poked in the first round. He's had to have two surgeries since then on his eyes, and he hasn't been able to fight. They had to stop the fight in the first round from an eye poke. It's very effective, but in Krav Maga, they're like, go for the eyes, bang. Because in a real world, fight for your life scenario.

• 2:15:20Speaker 01

  If you're in a war, I mean, it's for the Israeli military, I think.

• 2:15:23Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 2:15:24Speaker 01

  So they have to prepare for, you know, unusual situations.

• 2:15:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:15:28Speaker 01

  Where you're trying to survive in a, you know, a situation where your arm has been, your, your weapon has been removed and you're, and you're just trying to fight for your life.

• 2:15:35Speaker 02

  Exactly. Well, just in your, in a situation with hand, hand to hand combat, you need to learn how, you need to know every, you need, if a guy takes you down, you can't be lost. Oh, we have to get back up so I can fight. No, you have to be able to fight on the ground and that's the idea of it. Like incorporate jujitsu, incorporate leg kicks, Muay Thai, western boxing, even Jeet Kune Do techniques, even Wing Chun techniques.

• 2:15:57Speaker 01

  Really?

• 2:15:58Speaker 02

  There's a lot of hand trapping and things in Wing Chun that can be very effective in a fight.

• 2:16:02Speaker 01

  It looks really cool what they do with that wooden, uh, wooden, uh, dummy.

• 2:16:06Speaker 02

  Uh huh, yeah.

• 2:16:07Speaker 01

  It looks really, exactly.

• 2:16:09Speaker 02

  I've never really got into that, but if you do get into that, you'll learn blocking techniques and you'll learn.

• 2:16:14Speaker 01

  That actually work?

• 2:16:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, sure.

• 2:16:16Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 2:16:16Speaker 02

  But you, they'll work if you know the other stuff. They won't work if a guy just shoots a double on you and takes you down and starts pounding and you don't know what to do when you're on the bottom.

• 2:16:25Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:16:26Speaker 02

  You have to know how to, and this is what really MMA has taught the world. It's like you have to be able to defend yourself everywhere, standing up on the ground. You have to be effective in all the realms.

• 2:16:38Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:16:39Speaker 02

  But still, we have a lot of people that are pure specialists that do really well in mixed martial arts because they're so good in one area. Like Alex Pereira, who was the middleweight champion, light heavyweight champion, and now he's going up to heavyweight and he's going to be fighting at the White House card. Alex Pereira is one of the greatest kickboxers of all time.

• 2:16:58Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:16:58Speaker 02

  He's a two division world champion and kickboxer, but his style is all kickboxing, but he just developed takedown defense.

• 2:17:05Speaker 01

  He can do it all.

• 2:17:06Speaker 02

  He can do it all, but he doesn't submit anybody. If you're fighting him, you're gonna get, you're gonna get, it's gonna be a stand up fight. Unless you can take him down, he's not gonna try to take you down. He's gonna try to fuck you up. He's gonna try to knock you into another dimension.

• 2:17:18Speaker 01

  Thanks for the warning. I'll try to appoint the guy if I see him on the street. The weirdest thing I ever saw was there's this video of John Jones on the street somewhere. And he bumped into, he was talking and he leaned on some guy's motorcycle. I think, he might have been in Asia or something. The guy had no idea who he was and he started screaming at him.

• 2:17:38Speaker 02

  Oh no.

• 2:17:39Speaker 01

  And John said, "I'm very, very sorry." And he turned around, he ran away like he was terrified. And it was obviously, he wasn't in any danger, but it was so hilarious that this guy had no idea who he was picking a fight with.

• 2:17:50Speaker 02

  That's hilarious. The guy has no idea, his life flashed before his eyes.

• 2:17:55Speaker 01

  But he took it well, because he was like, you know, I don't have anything to prove.

• 2:17:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, John's not the type of guy that would do anything to, I mean, also, what a lawsuit, you know?

• 2:18:03Speaker 01

  Oh yeah, your hands are weapons.

• 2:18:05Speaker 02

  I mean, his whole body's a weapon. But, most of those guys are really nice guys in real life.

• 2:18:10Speaker 01

  Is that right?

• 2:18:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, because they get all their aggression out, they don't have anything to prove. They're not the type of, they know what they can do, they don't have to prove it to anybody.

• 2:18:19Speaker 01

  Well, you should come to Winnipeg, they have a fight coming up, I think it's in, I think it's in April. It's in April.

• 2:18:25Speaker 02

  A UFC in Winnipeg, yeah. I've avoided UFCs in Canada.

• 2:18:28Speaker 01

  Well, come on up.

• 2:18:29Speaker 02

  I've avoided it just because of the government, just because of what was going on as a protest. I was like, this is so fucked.

• 2:18:34Speaker 01

  Well, we'll come back up and-

• 2:18:35Speaker 02

  Well, if you win, I'll go up there.

• 2:18:36Speaker 01

  Well, we should-

• 2:18:37Speaker 02

  How about that?

• 2:18:37Speaker 01

  We should get you up before then.

• 2:18:38Speaker 02

  You become prime minister, I promise I'll do all the UFC events that they have in Canada.

• 2:18:42Speaker 01

  We need you up in Canada to come, come do one of your comedy shows and it would be great for-

• 2:18:47Speaker 02

  I used to love going up there, I used to love going to Massey Hall.

• 2:18:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:18:51Speaker 02

  I used to-

• 2:18:51Speaker 01

  In Toronto?

• 2:18:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, I love performing there, I did, um-

• 2:18:55Speaker 01

  You used to do Montreal and, and how old were you when you were in Montreal?

• 2:19:00Speaker 02

  Oh, I started, I think the first time I was up there, I was like 25?

• 2:19:04Speaker 01

  Such a beautiful city, eh?

• 2:19:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, 26.

• 2:19:06Speaker 01

  It's gorgeous there.

• 2:19:06Speaker 02

  Oh, I loved it there.

• 2:19:08Speaker 01

  Quebec is lovely.

• 2:19:08Speaker 02

  It's amazing.

• 2:19:09Speaker 01

  Beautiful province.

• 2:19:10Speaker 02

  Amazing food, shout out to Joe Beef, one of my favorite restaurants in the world that's in Montreal.

• 2:19:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, they're, Montreal's a great place and you should come up to the Prairies too. Go to the Calgary Stampede.

• 2:19:21Speaker 02

  I've heard that's awesome.

• 2:19:22Speaker 01

  Oh, it's amazing.

• 2:19:23Speaker 02

  I've been to Edmonton, I've been to Alberta.

• 2:19:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:19:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, I performed in Edmonton a few times and I've hunted in Alberta.

• 2:19:30Speaker 01

  Where?

• 2:19:31Speaker 02

  Um, well, my friends John and Jen Rivet, they have a, they have a, um, a guide. I mean, they guide people up in northern Alberta. It's all like, you know, black bear hunting.

• 2:19:46Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 2:19:46Speaker 02

  So it's like.

• 2:19:47Speaker 01

  There's a lot of great hunting. I don't hunt myself, but there's a ton of great hunting, a lot of hunters in Alberta.

• 2:19:52Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. Well, there's talk about Alberta separating.

• 2:19:55Speaker 01

  That won't happen.

• 2:19:56Speaker 02

  What was that about?

• 2:19:57Speaker 01

  It won't happen. People, some people are frustrated, but they, you know, there's some legitimate frustrations. But at the end of the day, Canada's gonna be united and Albertans, I'm born and raised Alberta. And Albertans are seriously patriotic.

• 2:20:12Speaker 02

  Very patriotic.

• 2:20:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, they're great people, hardworking.

• 2:20:16Speaker 02

  Some of the nicest people you ever.

• 2:20:17Speaker 01

  They are great people.

• 2:20:18Speaker 02

  Hardy.

• 2:20:19Speaker 01

  They are a hardy people.

• 2:20:21Speaker 02

  It's cold up there.

• 2:20:22Speaker 01

  It is cold.

• 2:20:23Speaker 02

  Survive.

• 2:20:23Speaker 01

  Exactly. You gotta be tough to survive the cold in Canada, carve a country like we have out of that cold weather on that big open land. But people just keep on going and Alberta's got a real kind of rugged individualism. And people, people love their agriculture, there's great ranches in Alberta, beautiful grasslands in Saskatchewan.

• 2:20:46Speaker 02

  Doesn't Brock Lesnar have a place up there?

• 2:20:48Speaker 01

  I didn't, I didn't know that.

• 2:20:49Speaker 02

  I think Brock Lesnar.

• 2:20:50Speaker 01

  Really?

• 2:20:51Speaker 02

  Bought land in Alberta.

• 2:20:52Speaker 01

  Really?

• 2:20:52Speaker 02

  I think he owns a ranch up there.

• 2:20:54Speaker 01

  Actually, I had heard that from somebody.

• 2:20:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:20:56Speaker 01

  I've never seen him.

• 2:20:56Speaker 02

  Fell in love with it. Well, he's a big hunter as well.

• 2:20:59Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:20:59Speaker 02

  He fell in love with it up there, cuz it's just, it's so magnificent, it's so gorgeous.

• 2:21:03Speaker 01

  It's a great country.

• 2:21:04Speaker 02

  And the woods are so dense and beautiful and you got wolves and bears and moose and everything up there. It's amazing country.

• 2:21:11Speaker 01

  The, the Canadian Rockies are spectacular as well. They're, you know, a worldwide attraction. You know, you go to Lake Louise, it looks like a tropical lake cuz it's all this runoff from the mountain melt. And you'd think you were in the tropics cuz it's this turquoise green. That's where I grew up. I, I love, I love Calgary, I love Southern Alberta. That's really my home. And so you gotta come to the Stampede. Greatest outdoor show on earth. A lot of Texans go up for the.

• 2:21:37Speaker 02

  The Stampede?

• 2:21:37Speaker 01

  Cuz it's a rodeo. It's a huge rodeo.

• 2:21:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, people don't think Cowboy, Canada. They don't think of that, but yeah.

• 2:21:43Speaker 01

  Calgary, they, they've got some serious cowboys there.

• 2:21:46Speaker 02

  No, they really do. Yeah. Look, I love Canada. I just.

• 2:21:49Speaker 01

  If, if you did your comedy show in Calgary, you'd get a massive turnout. It would be great. Think it over. I see when you-

• 2:21:56Speaker 02

  Well, I was supposed to be up there before Covid. I was supposed to do a show up there for 4/20, for April 20th. I was gonna do it in Vancouver.

• 2:22:04Speaker 01

  That's another great city.

• 2:22:05Speaker 02

  Every year I would do these 4/20 shows, like these, you know, 4/20 is the marijuana number. And Canada, now you guys have legal marijuana, too.

• 2:22:15Speaker 01

  I've been legal for 10 years.

• 2:22:16Speaker 02

  Which they should have in America. It's so ridiculous. They just recently decided to make it Schedule 3.

• 2:22:22Speaker 01

  Is it state by state?

• 2:22:24Speaker 02

  Yes. It's legal in a lot of states, but it's still not legal federally. It's goofy. If alcohol is legal, marijuana is far safer. It should be legal. It's ridiculous. It's also a personal freedom thing. Leave people alone. It's like, no one's robbing banks, smoking weed, fucking killing their neighbors. It's crazy.

• 2:22:41Speaker 01

  That's a personal, personal choice thing.

• 2:22:43Speaker 02

  It's not heroin. It's not opiates. It's not like, maybe you shouldn't do it if you have mental health problems, right? But there's a lot of people that just like take a pot gummy and go to bed, and it makes them sleep better. Like, leave them alone. Like, leave people alone. Let people have a glass of whiskey. Let people have a glass of wine with dinner. Leave them alone. Like, stop coming up with laws where you can impose your values and your morals and your judgments on other people. Let them have, make their own personal, like, if you wanna eat a fucking cheeseburger, eat a cheeseburger. You know, if you wanna go and have five Big Macs, you should be able to. I don't think you should do it, but I don't think there should be a law stopping you. And I think that should apply to a lot of things in life, and we'd be a lot better off.

• 2:23:27Speaker 01

  Well, the bottom line is, if you cannot trust a man to govern himself, how can you trust him to govern for others? Like, if you think, if you think that human nature is so flawed that people cannot make decisions for themselves, then how could you possibly trust human nature to make decisions for other people, to impose decisions on their lives? And who watches the watchmen?

• 2:23:50Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:23:51Speaker 01

  We're constantly told we need to be, we need to be kind of guided by these people from ivory towers, but who are these angels, anyway? They're just human beings, like everyone else. So when you give them more power and more, you give them the power to impose their will on people, then that ultimately gets abused.

• 2:24:05Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 2:24:06Speaker 01

  So even, you're right, even when somebody is doing something that I don't agree with, and I would think it would be better for all of us if they didn't do it, the mal that is done by giving me the power to impose my decision-making on them is worse than the benefit of trying to direct them towards a better decision.

• 2:24:22Speaker 02

  Well said.

• 2:24:23Speaker 01

  That's my philosophy.

• 2:24:24Speaker 02

  That's why I like you.

• 2:24:25Speaker 01

  Well, that's where I come from.

• 2:24:27Speaker 02

  You make a lot of sense.

• 2:24:28Speaker 01

  It's pretty simple. I think all the best things in life are simple. You know, we overcomplicate things. Government is way too complicated. You know, I think we need to get back to the simplicity. The greatest speech in the English language was Abraham Lincoln's Gettysburg Address. Two hundred and seventy-one words. You know, Einstein compressed mass and energy into a five-character equation. Lee, you know, Bruce Lee was an advocate of simplicity. Like, simplicity is a virtue, and I think we have to get back to simplicity, especially in government. Simpler, clearer, easier to manage. That's the kind of the philosophical take I pursue.

• 2:25:11Speaker 02

  Well, I appreciate that, and I think like, that philosophy and that perspective from a leader is what we need in this world, you know?

• 2:25:21Speaker 01

  Well, I think leaders have to have humility, because the problem is that if you are an egomaniac and you're in power, anywhere in the world, then you're gonna want to just continually impose new rules and laws to make yourself bigger. Whereas if you believe in freedom, then you have to be able to say to yourself, "I don't know better for this other person. He knows better for him." And, you know, it's hard, but politicians have to think that, they have to trust the people. But, you know, nobody wants to have "he left people alone on their gravestone." They wanna think, "Oh, he built this, he imposed that, he made this grand initiative that he imposed on the people in order to have a legacy." But my legacy is just to let other people build their legacies in their own lives.

• 2:26:05Speaker 02

  I think the idea of forging a legacy based on controlling people and imposing your will is ludicrous.

• 2:26:11Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 2:26:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:26:12Speaker 01

  And...

• 2:26:13Speaker 02

  But the problem is history is littered with people like that.

• 2:26:15Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 2:26:16Speaker 02

  Alexander the Great, Genghis Khan, there's so many people that imposed their will and left a legacy, but is that good?

• 2:26:23Speaker 01

  I don't think it is.

• 2:26:24Speaker 02

  And it's also, they're dead.

• 2:26:26Speaker 01

  They are, exactly.

• 2:26:28Speaker 02

  It doesn't matter.

• 2:26:29Speaker 01

  Nobody walked by one of those magnificent tombs in Petra and said, "Boy, I'd really like to be inside there."

• 2:26:35Speaker 02

  Exactly. What is happening while you're alive is what's really significant and the most... The most impactful thing, like do well, do good for the people. And I think your message resonates with me.

• 2:26:49Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 2:26:50Speaker 02

  If I was a Canadian, I would vote for you 100%.

• 2:26:52Speaker 01

  Thank you, thank you for that. Well, it's a, it's, you know, it's a privilege to do this work and I'm, I consider it very humbling and I'm very proud to be Canadian and to take the message of Canada here to our American friends.

• 2:27:05Speaker 02

  Well, I'm glad you're here doing that. And I think this is gonna have a big impact. And I really hope it moves the needle up in Canada.

• 2:27:12Speaker 01

  Absolutely, and down here, we gotta get these tariffs gone.

• 2:27:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:27:16Speaker 01

  Get the tariffs gone.

• 2:27:17Speaker 02

  Well, let's work it out.

• 2:27:18Speaker 01

  Right on.

• 2:27:19Speaker 02

  Work it out, and if you win, I'm coming up there, I promise.

• 2:27:21Speaker 01

  Well, we're gonna try to get you up there earlier. I'm gonna keep working on you.

• 2:27:24Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 2:27:24Speaker 01

  And you look at that maple leaf on your new kettlebell every day, eventually we're gonna, we're gonna work subliminally into your subconscious and get you up.

• 2:27:32Speaker 02

  Well, look, like I said, you don't have to sell me on Canada.

• 2:27:34Speaker 01

  Right on.

• 2:27:34Speaker 02

  I love Canada, and I love that gift, so thank you so much.

• 2:27:38Speaker 01

  Thank you very much.

• 2:27:38Speaker 02

  I really appreciate it, thank you for being here.

• 2:27:39Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 2:27:40Speaker 02

  It was awesome.

• 2:27:40Speaker 01

  There we go.

• 2:27:41Speaker 02

  Thank you. Bye, buddy.