#2404 - Elon Musk

Elon Musk is a business magnate, designer, and engineer known for his work in electric vehicles, private spaceflight, and artificial intelligence. His portfolio of companies includes Tesla, SpaceX, Neuralink, X, and several others.https://x.com/elonmusk Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02Speaker 00

  The Joe Rogan Experience. Training by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day.

• 0:12Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 0:13Joe Rogan?

  Just every morning.

• 0:15Speaker 01

  What are Jeff Bezos doing?

• 0:17Joe Rogan?

  He's doing some, definitely doing some testosterone. He looks jacked. He looks jacked, right?

• 0:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, but he's like-

• 0:24Joe Rogan?

  Quick.

• 0:25Speaker 01

  Quick.

• 0:26Joe Rogan?

  Quick.

• 0:28Joe Rogan?

  He got jacked quick.

• 0:29Speaker 01

  At age like 59 in less than a year, he went from pencil net geek to looking like The Rock.

• 0:38Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, like a little miniature alpha fella.

• 0:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, like his neck got bigger than his head.

• 0:42Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, he got big, quick.

• 0:43Speaker 01

  But then like his earlier pictures, his neck's like a noodle.

• 0:46Joe Rogan?

  I support this activity. I like to see him going in this direction.

• 0:49Speaker 01

  Which is fine, and his voice dropped like two octaves.

• 0:52Joe Rogan?

  I want you to move in that direction as well. I think we can achieve this.

• 0:55Speaker 01

  I mean, I should-

• 0:56Joe Rogan?

  I think we can achieve Digger Chad.

• 1:01Joe Rogan?

  That's what Beeple called it.

• 1:02Speaker 01

  Where is that guy?

• 1:03Joe Rogan?

  Beeple? I don't know where he is.

• 1:05Speaker 01

  That's like a real guy.

• 1:07Joe Rogan?

  The artist? Yeah. Oh, Digger Chad. Oh, Digger Chad, yeah. I don't know if that's a real guy. It's hard to tell.

• 1:12Speaker 01

  No, no, it is a real guy.

• 1:13Joe Rogan?

  It is a real guy?

• 1:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:14Joe Rogan?

  He's got the crazy jaw and like perfect sculpted hair.

• 1:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:17Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:18Speaker 01

  Well, I mean, they may have exaggerated a little bit, but-

• 1:20Joe Rogan?

  Probably.

• 1:21Speaker 01

  But no, I think he actually just kinda looked like that in reality.

• 1:24Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:26Speaker 01

  So, like he's a pretty unique looking individual.

• 1:30Joe Rogan?

  I think we can achieve this. That guy right there? That's a real guy?

• 1:34Joe Rogan?

  That's a real dude? I always thought that was CGI.

• 1:37Speaker 01

  No, I think the upper right one is not him. That's not him.

• 1:42Joe Rogan?

  That one to the left of that? Like, that's real? No, that's artificial, bro. That's fake. That's got that uncanny valley feel to it, doesn't it?

• 1:51Speaker 01

  It's not impossible.

• 1:52Joe Rogan?

  No, no, it's not impossible to achieve, but it's not, it's not possible to maintain that kinda leanness.

• 1:57Speaker 01

  No, no. I mean, that's like, you're also, at that point, he's dehydrating and all sorts of things.

• 2:04Joe Rogan?

  Oh, it's based on a real person?

• 2:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:06Joe Rogan?

  Right, but it's not a real person.

• 2:08Speaker 01

  What does he really look like?

• 2:09Joe Rogan?

  Those images, I think, are bullshit. Some of them are, is that real? Okay, that real, that looks real. Those are really jack bodybuilder.

• 2:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:18Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that looks real. Like, that's achievable. But there's a few of those images where you're just like, what's going on here?

• 2:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. Well, I mean, you see, you see it?

• 2:29Speaker 01

  Is that, is that the?

• 2:30Joe Rogan?

  That's the real dude.

• 2:31Speaker 01

  Well, there's that, that Icelandic dude who's Thor.

• 2:34Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah, the guy who jumps in the frozen lakes and shit.

• 2:37Speaker 01

  Well, the, the guy who played the mountain.

• 2:39Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that guy?

• 2:40Speaker 01

  That is, that is like a, that is like a mutant strong human.

• 2:44Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 2:45Speaker 01

  Like, like, uh, he would be in like the X-Men or something, you know?

• 2:48Joe Rogan?

  We were hanging out.

• 2:49Speaker 01

  He's just like, not like, uh, and, and, and there's that, you know that, I've seen that meme, tent and tent bag?

• 2:56Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 2:56Speaker 01

  You know how like, it's like, it's really hard to get the tent?

• 2:59Joe Rogan?

  Oh, right, right.

• 3:05Joe Rogan?

  That's true.

• 3:05Speaker 01

  There's a picture of, of him and his girlfriend.

• 3:08Joe Rogan?

  Oh, right, tent bag.

• 3:12Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's his wife.

• 3:13Speaker 01

  Gets in there, you know, it's like, it seems too small, but.

• 3:16Joe Rogan?

  I met Brian Shaw. Brian Shaw is like the world's most powerful man. And he's almost seven feet tall, he's four hundred pounds. And his, his bone density is one in five hundred million people. So there's one, it's like, there's like maybe sixteen people. He's an enormous human being.

• 3:38Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 3:38Joe Rogan?

  Like a legitimate giant, just like that guy.

• 3:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 3:41Joe Rogan?

  But we met him, he was hanging out with us in the green room of the mothership. It's like, okay, if this was like David and Goliath days, like, this is an actual giant. Like, the giants of the Bible.

• 3:50Speaker 01

  Once in a while they get a super giant poster.

• 3:51Joe Rogan?

  This is a real, a real one. Like, not a tall, skinny basketball player.

• 3:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 3:55Joe Rogan?

  Like a seven foot, four hundred pound powerlifter.

• 3:59Speaker 01

  Like, you don't wanna, especially.

• 4:00Joe Rogan?

  That's the guy. See if there's a photo of him standing next to like a regular human. There it is.

• 4:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:06Joe Rogan?

  That's him right there.

• 4:06Speaker 01

  Like, there's like, there's like, one of him was next to standing next to Arnold and stuff.

• 4:10Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 4:10Speaker 01

  It's where, and I'll, everyone, everyone just looks tiny. I mean, I think he's a pretty cool dude, actually.

• 4:15Joe Rogan?

  Oh, Brian's very cool, very smart, too. Unusually, you know, you expect anybody to be that big, it's gotta be a moron.

• 4:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:22Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 4:22Speaker 01

  Yeah. There's, there's Andre the Giant, who was awesome.

• 4:26Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 4:27Speaker 01

  He was great in Princess Bride and...

• 4:28Joe Rogan?

  No, he was just awesome, period.

• 4:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 4:31Joe Rogan?

  So, we were talking about this interview with Sam Altman and Tucker, and I was like, we should probably just talk about this on the air. Because it is one of the craziest interviews I think I've ever seen in my life.

• 4:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:43Joe Rogan?

  Where Tucker starts bringing up this guy who was...

• 4:46Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. A whistleblower or whatever.

• 4:48Joe Rogan?

  A whistleblower.

• 4:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:49Joe Rogan?

  Who, you know, committed suicide, but doesn't look like it. And, and he's talking to Sam Altman about this, and Sam Altman was like, are you accusing me? He's like, no, no, no, I'm not, I'm just saying, I, I think someone killed him.

• 5:03Speaker 01

  Yeah. And like, and should be investigated.

• 5:05Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 5:07Speaker 01

  Not just drop the case.

• 5:08Joe Rogan?

  It seems like...

• 5:10Speaker 01

  That they just dropped the case, yeah, yeah.

• 5:11Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 5:11Speaker 01

  But his parents think he was murdered.

• 5:13Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 5:14Speaker 01

  The wires to his security camera were cut.

• 5:17Joe Rogan?

  Blood in two rooms.

• 5:18Speaker 01

  Blood in two rooms, someone else's wig was in the room.

• 5:21Joe Rogan?

  Someone else's wig.

• 5:22Speaker 01

  Wig.

• 5:22Joe Rogan?

  Wig. Yes. Not normal.

• 5:24Speaker 01

  Not his wig.

• 5:25Joe Rogan?

  Not normal to have a wig laying around.

• 5:27Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 5:29Speaker 01

  And, and he ordered DoorDash right before allegedly committing suicide.

• 5:33Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 5:33Speaker 01

  Which is, seems unusual, you know?

• 5:37Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 5:37Speaker 01

  It's like, you know, let's, I'm gonna order pizza, on second thoughts, I'll kill myself. It's, it seems like, that's a very rapid change in mindset.

• 5:45Joe Rogan?

  It's very weird, and especially the parents have, they, they don't believe he committed suicide at all.

• 5:51Speaker 01

  Has no note or anything?

• 5:52Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 5:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:53Joe Rogan?

  It seems pretty fucked up, and, you know, the idea that a whistleblower for an enormous AI company that's worth billions of dollars might get whacked, that's not outside the pale.

• 6:04Speaker 01

  I mean, it's straight out of a movie.

• 6:06Joe Rogan?

  Right out of a movie, but right out of a movie is real sometimes.

• 6:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, right. Exactly.

• 6:10Joe Rogan?

  Right?

• 6:11Speaker 01

  It's a little weird that, I thi- I think they should do a proper investigation, like, what's the downside on that proper investigation?

• 6:17Joe Rogan?

  Right. No.

• 6:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:19Joe Rogan?

  For sure.

• 6:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 6:20Joe Rogan?

  But the whole exchange is so bizarre.

• 6:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 6:23Joe Rogan?

  But Sam Altman's reaction to being accused of murder is bizarre.

• 6:28Speaker 01

  Look, I don't know if he is guilty, but it's not possible to look more guilty.

• 6:34Speaker 01

  So I'm like.

• 6:35Joe Rogan?

  Or look more weird.

• 6:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:38Joe Rogan?

  You know, maybe it's just his social thing, like maybe he's just odd with confrontation and it just goes blank. You know, but if somebody was accusing me of killing Jamie, like if Jamie was a whistleblower and Jamie got whacked and then I'd be like, wait, what do you? What are you, are you accusing me of killing my friend? Like, what the fuck are you talking about? I would, I would be a little bit more irate.

• 7:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, exactly.

• 7:04Joe Rogan?

  I would be a little upset.

• 7:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, it'd be like, well, you'd be like, you'd certainly insist on a thorough investigation.

• 7:12Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 7:13Speaker 01

  As opposed to trying to sweep it under the rug.

• 7:15Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I wouldn't assume that he got, that he committed suicide. I would be suspicious. If Tucker was telling me that aspect of the story, I'd be like, that does seem like a murder. Fuck, we should look into this.

• 7:25Speaker 01

  I mean, all signs point to it being a murder. Not, not saying, you know, Sam Alvin had anything to do with the murder, but.

• 7:30Joe Rogan?

  Blood in two rooms.

• 7:31Speaker 01

  It's blood in two rooms, like, yeah, this, the wires, the security camera and the door dash being ordered right before suicide. No suicide note. His parents think,

• 7:41Speaker 01

  he was murdered and the people that I know who knew him said he was not suicidal.

• 7:48Speaker 01

  So I'm like, this, why would you jump to the conclusion?

• 7:51Speaker 03

  Parents sued the landlord?

• 7:53Joe Rogan?

  They sue the son's landlord, alleged the owners and the managers of their son's San Francisco apartment building were part of a widespread cover up of his death.

• 7:59Speaker 01

  The landlord?

• 8:00Speaker 03

  Yeah, there's a bunch of weird, they said there was like packages missing from the building. Some people said they saw packages still being delivered and then all of a sudden they all disappeared.

• 8:07Joe Rogan?

  Huh. But that could be, people steal people's packages all the time.

• 8:11Speaker 01

  The porch pirate situation.

• 8:13Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 8:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:14Speaker 03

  Says they failed to safeguard.

• 8:16Joe Rogan?

  Also, I mean, the amount of trauma those poor parents have gone through with their son dying like that. I mean, it must, God bless them. And how could they stay sane after something like that? They're probably, they're so grief stricken, who knows? This episode is brought to you by Visible. As fall hits, we enter another season of change. Time to shift gears, drop the dead weight and upgrade the wardrobe for the drop in temperature. But one thing that doesn't. Need to change your phone? The smartest upgrade this season isn't a new phone. It's a better wireless plan. Switch to Visible, the ultimate wireless hack. You get unlimited 5G data and unlimited hotspot powered by Verizon for just $25 a month.

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• 10:39Joe Rogan?

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• 11:21Joe Rogan?

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• 11:37Speaker 01

  Yeah. You should have asked if Epstein killed himself.

• 11:40Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. That's the Cash Patel thing with Cash Patel and Dan Bongino and they were trying to convince everybody of that. Like, okay.

• 11:50Speaker 01

  The guards weren't there and the camera stopped working and, you know.

• 11:55Joe Rogan?

  The guards were asleep. The cameras weren't working. He had a giant steroided-up bodybuilder guy that he was sharing a cell with that was a murderer, who was a bad cop. Like, all of it's kind of nuts. All of it's kind of nuts. Like, that he would just kill himself rather than reveal all of his billionaire friends.

• 12:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:17Joe Rogan?

  And then...

• 12:18Speaker 03

  Did you see Tim Dillon talking to Chris Cuomo about this?

• 12:21Joe Rogan?

  I did. Chris Cuomo just looked so stupid.

• 12:25Speaker 03

  Tim just listed off all the...

• 12:26Joe Rogan?

  Tim just... And he's like, "I agree, it is strange." Like, of course it's strange, Chris! Jesus Christ. You can't just go with the tide. You gotta think things through. And if you think that one through, you're like, "I don't think he killed himself." Nobody does. You'd have to work for an intelligence agency to think he killed himself.

• 12:45Speaker 01

  It does, it does seem unlikely.

• 12:47Joe Rogan?

  It seems highly unlikely. Highly, highly unlikely. All roads point to murder.

• 12:54Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 12:54Joe Rogan?

  Point to, they had to get rid of him because he knew too much. Whatever the fuck he was doing.

• 12:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:59Joe Rogan?

  Whatever kind of an asset he was, whatever thing he was up to, you know, was apparently very effective.

• 13:06Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 13:06Joe Rogan?

  And a lot of people were compromised. You see, your boy Bill Gates is now saying climate change is not a big deal? Like, relax, everybody. I know I scared the fuck out of you for the last decade and a half, but eh, we're gonna be fine.

• 13:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean.

• 13:24Speaker 01

  You know, as I was saying, just before coming into the studio, you know, like every day, there's some crazy, wild, new thing that's happening. It feels like reality is accelerating.

• 13:34Joe Rogan?

  It's every day, and every day, it's like more and more ridiculous. To the point where the simulation is more and more undeniable.

• 13:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, it really feels like simulation, you know, it's like, come on, what are the odds that this could be the case?

• 13:47Joe Rogan?

  Are you paying attention at all to Three Eye Atlas? Are you watching it?

• 13:51Speaker 01

  The comet?

• 13:51Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, whatever it is.

• 13:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, I mean. I mean, one thing I can say is like, look, I.

• 13:59Speaker 01

  If, if I was aware of any evidence of aliens, um, you, Joe, you have my word, I will come on your show, and I will reveal it on the show.

• 14:08Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 14:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:09Joe Rogan?

  That's a good deal.

• 14:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's pretty good.

• 14:10Joe Rogan?

  I believe you, yeah, thank you.

• 14:11Speaker 01

  I'll stick, I keep my, you know, keep my promises, so.

• 14:16Joe Rogan?

  All right.

• 14:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:16Joe Rogan?

  I'll hold you to that.

• 14:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:18Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I don't.

• 14:18Speaker 01

  And I'm never committing suicide, to be clear.

• 14:21Joe Rogan?

  I don't think you would either.

• 14:22Speaker 01

  On camera, guys, I am never committing suicide, ever.

• 14:27Joe Rogan?

  If someone says you committed suicide, I will fight tooth and nail.

• 14:30Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 14:30Joe Rogan?

  I will fight tooth and nail, I will, I will not believe it. I will not believe it. The thing about the Three Eye Atlas is.

• 14:37Speaker 01

  That's a hell of a name, actually.

• 14:38Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's a third interstellar.

• 14:40Speaker 01

  It sounds like Third Eye or something, yeah.

• 14:41Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it does. Three Eye is a third, it's only the third interstellar object that's detected.

• 14:47Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 14:48Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 14:51Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Avi Loeb was on the podcast a couple of days ago talking about it.

• 14:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, it could be, I don't know, but.

• 14:57Joe Rogan?

  Apparently, today, they're saying that it's changed course. Did you see that, Jamie? Avi Loeb said something today, I'll send it to you.

• 15:08Joe Rogan?

  Uh, I know it's on Reddit.

• 15:13Joe Rogan?

  Here you go, Jamie. I'll send it to you right now. It's fascinating. It's fascinating also because it's made almost entirely of nickel, whatever it is. And the only way that exists here is industrial alloys, apparently.

• 15:27Speaker 01

  No, there are, there are, there are definitely comets and asteroids that are made primarily of nickel.

• 15:34Joe Rogan?

  Oh, really?

• 15:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, so the, the places where you mine nickel on Earth is actually where there was an asteroid or comet that hit Earth that was a nickel-rich, you know, asteroid.

• 15:45Joe Rogan?

  Wow, and it left a giant nickel-rich, rich deposit?

• 15:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's, that's, that's, it's coming. Those are from impacts. You definitely didn't want to be there at the time because anything would have been obliterated.

• 15:55Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 15:55Speaker 01

  But that's, that's where the sources of nickel and cobalt are these days.

• 15:59Joe Rogan?

  So this is Avi Loeb. A few hours ago, the first hint of non-gravitational acceleration, that something other than gravity is affecting its acceleration, meaning something is affecting its trajectory beyond gravity, was indicated. Interesting. Dun, dun, dun.

• 16:16Joe Rogan?

  So it's mostly nickel, very little iron, which he was saying is, on Earth, only exists in alloys. But whatever, you know, you're dealing with another planet.

• 16:28Speaker 01

  There's, there are, there are cases where there's very nickel-rich asteroids, meteorites.

• 16:33Joe Rogan?

  And that's what it is, for something from space.

• 16:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's, it's only, yeah, it doesn't mean, it'd be a very sort of heavy spaceship if you make it all out of nickel.

• 16:41Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah. And fucking huge, the size of Manhattan and all nickel, that's kind of nuts.

• 16:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's a heavy spaceship.

• 16:47Joe Rogan?

  That's a real problem if it hits.

• 16:50Speaker 01

  Uh, yes. No, it would like obliterate a continent type of thing.

• 16:53Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 16:54Speaker 01

  Maybe, maybe it was.

• 16:55Joe Rogan?

  It'd probably kill most of human life.

• 16:57Speaker 01

  Um.

• 16:58Joe Rogan?

  If not all of us.

• 16:59Speaker 01

  I don't know, it depends on what the, the total mass is, but there's, I mean, the thing is, like, in the fossil record, there are. You know, there's like arguably five major extinction events, like the biggest one of which is the Permian extinction, where almost all life was eliminated. That actually occurred over several million, several million years. There's the Jurassic. I think Jurassic is, I think that one's pretty definitively an asteroid. And, but this, but there's five major extinction events, but, but what they don't count are really the ones that merely take out a continent.

• 17:35Joe Rogan?

  Merely?

• 17:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, because that, because those don't really show up on the fossil record, you know?

• 17:40Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 17:41Speaker 01

  So unless it's enough to cause a, you know, mass extinction event throughout Earth, it doesn't show up on, you know, in a fossil record that's 200 million years old. So, the, yeah, but there've been many, many impacts that would have sort of destroyed all life on, you know, let's say half of North America or something like that. Many such impacts through the course of history.

• 18:08Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and there's nothing we can do about it right now.

• 18:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, there was one that hits, there was one that hit Siberia and destroyed, I think, a few hundred square miles.

• 18:18Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that's the Tunguska?

• 18:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:20Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's the one from the 1920s, right?

• 18:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:23Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's the one that coincides with that meteor, that comet's storm that we go through every June and every November, that they think is responsible for that Younger Dryas impact.

• 18:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:34Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, all that shit's crazy. Thank you, before we go any further, for letting us have a tour SpaceX.

• 18:42Speaker 01

  You're welcome.

• 18:43Joe Rogan?

  And letting us be there for the rocket launch.

• 18:45Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 18:46Joe Rogan?

  One of the absolute coolest things I've ever seen in my life. And we, we were, we thought it was only like, I thought it was a half a mile, Jamie's like it was a mile away. Turned out it's almost two miles away.

• 18:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 18:58Joe Rogan?

  And you feel it in your chest.

• 18:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:00Joe Rogan?

  You have to wear earplugs.

• 19:01Speaker 01

  Very intense.

• 19:02Joe Rogan?

  And you feel it in your chest and it's two miles away.

• 19:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:05Joe Rogan?

  It was fucking amazing.

• 19:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:07Joe Rogan?

  And then to go with you up into the command center and to watch all the Starlink satellites with all the different cameras and all in real time.

• 19:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:16Joe Rogan?

  As it made its way all the way to Australia. How many minutes? Like 35, 40 minutes?

• 19:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:21Joe Rogan?

  Wild. Watch it touchdown in Australia.

• 19:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:24Joe Rogan?

  Fucking crazy. It was amazing.

• 19:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 19:28Joe Rogan?

  Absolutely amazing.

• 19:29Speaker 01

  The Starship's awesome. And anyone can go watch the launch, actually. So you can just go South Padre Island and get a great view of the launch. So it's like where a lot of spring breakers go.

• 19:41Speaker 01

  But we'll be flying pretty frequently out of Starbase in South Texas. And we formally incorporated it as a city. So it's actually a legally, an actual legal city, Starbase, Texas. It's not that often you hear like, hey, we made a city, you know? That used to be like, in the old days, like a startup would be you go and gather a bunch of people and say, hey, let's go make a town. Literally, that was like, that would have been startups in the old days.

• 20:06Joe Rogan?

  Or a country.

• 20:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, or a country.

• 20:08Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 20:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, actually.

• 20:09Joe Rogan?

  If you tried doing that today, there'd be a real problem.

• 20:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, the things are so much, so much set in stone on the country front these days.

• 20:15Joe Rogan?

  You might be able to pull it off. You might be able to pull it off. If you got a solid island, you might be able to pull it off.

• 20:21Speaker 01

  You know? It's probably.

• 20:23Joe Rogan?

  You know, like, like Larry Ellison owns Lanai?

• 20:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, you could probably.

• 20:27Joe Rogan?

  Is this it right here?

• 20:28Speaker 01

  If you put enough effort into it, you can make a new country.

• 20:30Joe Rogan?

  This is one of the different ones. This is one of the ones that you catch, right? Or is that one?

• 20:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's the booster. So that's the super heavy booster. So that's one with, the booster's got 33 engines.

• 20:42Speaker 01

  That, and it's, you know, by version four, that will have about 10,000 tons of thrust. You know, right now, it's about seven, 8,000 tons of thrust. But that's the largest flying object ever made.

• 20:55Joe Rogan?

  I had to explain to someone, they were going, why do they blow up all the time if you're so smart? Because there was this, there was this fucking idiot on television. Some guy was being interviewed and they were talking about you. And he goes, oh, I think he's a fuckwit. And he goes, he's a fuckwit. And he goes, why does he say he's a fuckwit? Oh, his rockets keep blowing up. And someone said, yeah, well, why do his rockets blow? And I had to explain.

• 21:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:15Joe Rogan?

  Because it's the only way you find out what the tolerances are. You have to, you have to.

• 21:18Speaker 01

  You have to explore the corners of the box. So like, so when you do a new rocket development program, you have to do what's called, you know, exploring the limits, the corners of the box, where you say it's like you, worst case this, worst case that, to figure out where the limits are. So you blow up, you know, not, admittedly, in the development process, sometimes it blows up accidentally. But, but we intentionally subjected to.

• 21:46Speaker 01

  You know, a flight regime that is much worse than what we expect in normal flights. So that when we put people on board or valuable cargo, it doesn't blow up. So, so for example, for the flight that you saw, we actually deliberately took heat shield tiles off the ship, off of Starship, in some of the worst locations to say, okay, if we lose a heat shield tile here, is it catastrophic or is it not? And nonetheless, Starship was able to do a soft landing in the Indian Ocean, just west of Australia, which is, and it got there from Texas in like, I don't know, 35, 40 minutes type of thing, so.

• 22:29Joe Rogan?

  So it landed even though you put it through this situation where it has compromised shield?

• 22:34Speaker 01

  It had an unusually, we brought it in hot, like an extra hot trajectory with missing tiles to see if it would still make it to a soft landing, which it did. Now, I should point out, it did have, there were some holes that were burnt into it, but it was robust enough to land despite having some holes burnt in, you know, that, yeah. Because it's coming, it's coming in like a blazing meteor. You can see the real time video.

• 23:02Joe Rogan?

  Well, tell me the speed again, because the speed was bananas. You were talking about.

• 23:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's like 17,000 miles an hour. Or like 25 times the speed of sound or thereabouts. So the, so think about like, it's like 12 times faster than a bullet from an assault rifle. You know, bullet from an assault rifle is around Mach 2.

• 23:21Joe Rogan?

  And it's, and it's huge.

• 23:23Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah. Or compare it like a bullet from a, you know, a 45 or a 9mm, which is subsonic, that's, you know, it'll be about 30 times faster than a bullet from a handgun.

• 23:36Joe Rogan?

  30 times faster than a bullet from a handgun and it's the size of a skyscraper?

• 23:40Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 23:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's fast.

• 23:46Joe Rogan?

  It's so wild. It's so wild to see, man. It's so exciting. The factory is so exciting, too, because like genuinely, no bullshit, I felt like I was witnessing history. I felt like it was a scene in a movie where someone had expectations and they go like, what are they doing? They're building rockets and you go there. And as we were walking through, Jamie, you could speak to this too. Didn't you have the feeling where you're like, oh, this is way bigger than I thought it was. This is huge. It's awesome. Fucking crazy.

• 24:17Speaker 01

  That's what she said.

• 24:18Joe Rogan?

  The ah, the amount of rockets you're making.

• 24:22Speaker 01

  Tent back.

• 24:26Joe Rogan?

  Giga Chad in the house.

• 24:30Joe Rogan?

  It's a giant metal dick. You're fucking the universe with your giant metal dick.

• 24:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, yeah, it is. It is very big.

• 24:37Joe Rogan?

  And the sheer numbers of them that you guys are making. And then this is a version and you have a new updated version that's coming soon. And what is the difference?

• 24:47Speaker 01

  It's a little longer.

• 24:50Joe Rogan?

  More pointy?

• 24:51Speaker 01

  Same amount of pointy, but it's got a bit more length. The interstage, you see that the interstage section with kind of like the grill area? That's now integrated with the boost stage. So we do what's called hot staging, where we light the ship engines while it's still attached to the booster. So the booster engines are still thrusting, it's still, it's still being pushed forward by the booster of the ship. But then we light the ship engines and the ship engines actually pull away from the booster, even though the booster engines are still firing.

• 25:26Joe Rogan?

  Whoa.

• 25:28Speaker 01

  So it's blasting flame through that grill section, but we integrate that grill section into the boost stage with the next version of the rocket.

• 25:39Speaker 01

  And next version of the rocket will have the Raptor III engines, which are a huge improvement. You may have seen them in the lobby.

• 25:47Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 25:48Speaker 01

  Because we've got like the Raptor I, II, and III. And you can see the dramatic improvement in simplicity. We should probably put a plaque there to also show how much we reduced the weight, the cost, and improved the efficiency and the thrust. So the Raptor III has almost twice the thrust of Raptor I.

• 26:11Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 26:12Speaker 01

  So you see Raptor III, it looks like it's got parts missing, right?

• 26:17Joe Rogan?

  And how many of them?

• 26:18Speaker 01

  It's very, very clean.

• 26:18Joe Rogan?

  How many of them are on the rocket?

• 26:20Speaker 01

  There's 33 on the booster.

• 26:24Joe Rogan?

  Whoa.

• 26:25Speaker 01

  And each Raptor engine is producing twice as much thrust as all four engines on a 747.

• 26:35Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 26:37Speaker 01

  So that engine is smaller than a 747 engine, but is producing, you know,

• 26:44Speaker 01

  almost 10 times the thrust of a 747 engine.

• 26:47Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 26:48Speaker 01

  So extremely high power to weight ratio.

• 26:53Speaker 01

  And there's 33 of them.

• 26:55Joe Rogan?

  So when you're designing these, you get to Raptor I.

• 26:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:59Joe Rogan?

  You see its efficiency, you see where you can improve it, you get to Raptor II. How many, how far can you scale this up with just the same sort of technology? With propellant and ignition and engines? Like, how much further can you?

• 27:13Speaker 01

  We're pushing the limits of physics here. So.

• 27:19Speaker 01

  And really, in order to make a fully reusable orbital rocket, which no one has succeeded in doing yet, including us. But Starship is the first time that there is a design for a rocket where full and rapid reusability is actually possible. So it was not, there's not even been a design before where it was possible. Certainly not a design that got made any hardware at all. We live on a planet where the gravity is quite high. Like, Earth's gravity is really quite, quite high. And if the gravity was even 10 or 20% higher, we'd be stuck on Earth forever.

• 28:06Speaker 01

  Really? Yeah, we could not use, certainly couldn't use conventional rockets. You'd have to like blow yourself off the surface with like a nuclear bomb or something crazy.

• 28:14Speaker 01

  So on the other hand, if Earth's gravity was just a little lower, like even 10, 20% lower, then getting to orbit would be easy. So it's like, it's like if this was a video game, it's set to like maximum difficulty, but not impossible. Okay. So that's, that's where we have here. So it's not as though others have ignored the concept of reusability. They've just concluded that it was too difficult to achieve. And we've been working on this for a long time at SpaceX. And, you know, I'm the chief engineer of the company. Although I should say that, you know, we're an extremely talented engineering team.

• 28:58Speaker 01

  I think we've got the best rocket engineering team that has ever been assembled. It's an honor to work with such incredible people.

• 29:08Speaker 01

  So, so it's fair to say that, you know, we have not yet succeeded in creating, in achieving full reusability, but we at last have a rocket where full reusability is possible. And I think, I think we'll achieve it next year. So that's, that's a really big deal. And the reason, the reason that's such a big deal is that full reusability drops the cost of access to space by 100.

• 29:42Speaker 01

  Maybe even more than 100, actually. So it could be like 1,000. You can think of it like any mode of transport. Like imagine if aircraft were not reusable. Like you flew somewhere, you throw the plane out. Like imagine if, like the way, the way conventional rockets work is it would be like if you had an airplane and instead of landing at your destination, you parachute out and the plane crashes somewhere and you landed your, and you landed and parachuted your destination. That'd be a very expensive trip. And you'd need another plane to get back.

• 30:17Speaker 01

  But that's how the other rockets in the world work.

• 30:21Speaker 01

  Now, the SpaceX Falcon rocket is the only one that is, that is at least mostly reusable. You've seen the Falcon rocket land. We've now done over 500 landings of the SpaceX rocket, of the Falcon 9 rocket.

• 30:36Speaker 01

  And this year, we'll deliver probably, I don't know, somewhere between 2,200 and 2,500 tons to orbit with the Falcon 9, Falcon Heavy rockets, not counting anything from Starship.

• 30:56Joe Rogan?

  And this is mostly Starlink?

• 30:58Speaker 01

  Yes, mostly Starlink, but we launched many other, we even launched our competitors on, competitors to Starlink on Falcon 9. We charge them the same price, pretty fair.

• 31:10Speaker 01

  But SpaceX this year will deliver roughly 90% of all Earth mass to orbit.

• 31:16Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 31:17Speaker 01

  And then of the remaining 10%, most of that is done by China, and then the remaining, roughly 4%, is everyone else in the world, including our domestic competitors.

• 31:30Joe Rogan?

  You know, it's kind of incredible how many things are in space, like how many things are floating above us now.

• 31:37Speaker 01

  There's a lot of things.

• 31:38Joe Rogan?

  Is there a sat-

• 31:39Speaker 01

  Space is big, though.

• 31:40Joe Rogan?

  Right. But is there a saturation point where we're going to have problems with all these different satellites that are-

• 31:47Speaker 01

  I think as long as the satellites are maintained, it'll be fine. Space is very roomy. It's, like, you can think of, like, space has been concentric shells of the surface of the Earth, so-

• 32:07Speaker 01

  You know, there's, it's the surface of the earth, but, but there's, it's a series of-

• 32:10Joe Rogan?

  Much larger, yeah.

• 32:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, it looks like a series of concentric trails.

• 32:14Joe Rogan?

  And think of an airstream trailer flying around up there. There's a lot of room for airstreams.

• 32:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, imagine, yeah, if there were just a few thousand airstreams on earth.

• 32:23Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 32:24Speaker 01

  What are the odds that they'd hit each other?

• 32:25Joe Rogan?

  They wouldn't be very crowded.

• 32:26Speaker 01

  No.

• 32:27Joe Rogan?

  And then you gotta go bigger.

• 32:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:29Joe Rogan?

  Because you're dealing with far above earth, hundreds of miles above earth.

• 32:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, so it's the, but the, the, the goal of SpaceX is to get rocket technology to the point where we can extend life beyond earth and that we can establish a self-sustaining city on Mars, a permanent base on the moon, that would be very cool. I mean, imagine if we had like a, you know, moon base Alpha, where there's like a permanent science base on the moon.

• 32:54Joe Rogan?

  That would be pretty dope, or at least a tourist trap.

• 32:57Speaker 01

  I mean-

• 32:59Joe Rogan?

  A lot of people would be willing to go to the moon for, just for a tour.

• 33:02Speaker 01

  That's for sure.

• 33:03Joe Rogan?

  To just look back.

• 33:04Speaker 01

  We could probably pay for our space program with that.

• 33:05Joe Rogan?

  Probably, yeah, well-

• 33:06Speaker 01

  Because it's like, if, if you, if you could go to the moon with, and, and safely,

• 33:14Speaker 01

  I think we'd get a lot of people, would, would, would pay for that.

• 33:17Joe Rogan?

  Oh, a hundred percent. After the first year, after nobody died for like a year.

• 33:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, just make sure, exactly. Are you gonna come back?

• 33:23Joe Rogan?

  Because like that submarine, they, they had a bunch of successful launches in that private submarine before it imploded and killed everybody.

• 33:31Speaker 01

  That was not a good design, obviously.

• 33:32Joe Rogan?

  It was a very bad design.

• 33:33Speaker 01

  Terrible design.

• 33:34Joe Rogan?

  And the engineer said it would not withstand the pressure of those depths. Like, there's a lot of whistleblowers in that company, too.

• 33:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, they, they, they made that out of carbon fiber, which is, it doesn't make any sense because you actually need, you need to be dense to go down. In any case, just make it out of steel. If you make it out of, sort of just, you know, a, a big steel casting, that's, that's, you'll, you'll be safe and nothing like-

• 33:59Joe Rogan?

  Why would they make it out of carbon fiber, then? Is it cheaper?

• 34:02Speaker 01

  I think they think carbon fiber sounds cool or something, but-

• 34:05Joe Rogan?

  It does sound cool.

• 34:06Speaker 01

  It's, it sounds cool, but because it's such, it's such low density, you actually, actually have to add extra mass to go down because it's low density. But if you just have a giant, you know, hollow ball bearing, you're gonna be fine.

• 34:19Joe Rogan?

  Speaking of carbon fiber, just check out my unplugged Tesla out there.

• 34:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's cool.

• 34:23Joe Rogan?

  Pretty sick, right? Yeah. Have you guys ever thought about doing something like that? Like, having like an AMG division of Tesla, where you do like custom stuff?

• 34:32Speaker 01

  I think it's best to leave that to the custom shops.

• 34:38Speaker 01

  You know, we're like Tesla's focus is autonomous cars, you know, building kind of futuristic autonomous cars.

• 34:49Speaker 01

  So.

• 34:53Speaker 01

  Like, I think it's, we want the future to look like the future. So the, like, did you see, like, our designs for, like, the sort of, the robotic bus?

• 35:03Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 35:03Speaker 01

  It looks pretty cool.

• 35:04Joe Rogan?

  The robotic bus?

• 35:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:06Joe Rogan?

  It's also being a totally autonomous bus?

• 35:07Speaker 01

  We need to actually figure out the good name for it, like, I think, call it the Robus, or, there's no good, there's like, what do you call this thing? But it looks, it looks cool. It's very art deco. It's like, it's like futuristic art deco.

• 35:19Speaker 01

  And.

• 35:21Speaker 01

  It doesn't, like, I think we want to change the aesthetic over time. You don't want the aesthetic to be constant over time. You want to evolve the aesthetic.

• 35:32Speaker 01

  So. You're like, my, like, I have a son who's, like, you know, he's, he's, he's like, even more autistic than me. And, and, but he's, he has these great observations.

• 35:44Joe Rogan?

  Who's this?

• 35:45Speaker 01

  A Saxon. He has these great observations in the world, because he's, he's, he just views the world through a different lens than, than most people. And he is like, Dad, why does the world look like it's 2015?

• 36:00Speaker 01

  And I'm like, damn, the world does look like it's 2015. Like, the aesthetic has not evolved since 2015.

• 36:05Joe Rogan?

  Whoa, that's what it looks like?

• 36:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:07Joe Rogan?

  Oh, wow.

• 36:08Speaker 01

  That's pretty cool.

• 36:09Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah. That's like, what is it?

• 36:10Speaker 01

  Like, you'd want to see that going down the road, you know?

• 36:12Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 36:12Speaker 01

  You'd be like, okay, this is, we're in the future, you know? It doesn't look like 2015.

• 36:17Joe Rogan?

  What is that ancient science fiction movie, like, one of the first science fiction movies ever? Is it Metropolis? Is that what it is?

• 36:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 36:23Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. That looks like it belongs in Metropolis.

• 36:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. It's a futuristic art deco.

• 36:28Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, well, that's cool that you're concentrating on the aesthetic. I mean, that's kind of the whole deal with Cybertruck, right? Like, it didn't have to look like that.

• 36:36Speaker 01

  No, I just wanted to have something that looked really different.

• 36:40Joe Rogan?

  Isn't it a pain in the ass for people to get insured because it's all solid steel and...

• 36:44Speaker 01

  I hope it's not too much. You know, Tesla does offer insurance, so people can always get insured at Tesla. Well, but like, it is, the form does follow function in the case of the Cybertruck because, as you demonstrated with your armor-piercing arrow. Because if you shot that arrow at a regular truck...

• 37:03Joe Rogan?

  It would've gone right through it.

• 37:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. You would've found your arrow in the wall.

• 37:06Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 37:07Speaker 01

  You know?

• 37:08Joe Rogan?

  At the very least, it would've buried into one of the seats.

• 37:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. But like, you could definitely make, get enough of a boa velocity and the right arrow would go through both doors of a regular truck and land on the wall.

• 37:22Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. If there was a clear shot between both doors, it probably would've passed right through.

• 37:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. But, you know, the arrow shattered on the Cybertruck because it's ultra-hot stainless.

• 37:34Speaker 01

  So, and I thought it'd be cool to have, you know, a truck that is bulletproof to a subsonic projectile.

• 37:44Speaker 01

  So, you know, especially in this day and age, you know, like, if the apocalypse happens, you're gonna want to have a bulletproof truck, you know? So then because it's made of ultra-hot stainless, you can't just stamp the panels. Like, you can't just put it in a stamping press because it breaks the press. So, in order to actually, so it has to be planer because it's so difficult to bend because it breaks the machine that bends it. That's why it's so planer. And it's not, you know, it's because it's bulletproof steel.

• 38:23Joe Rogan?

  Right. So it is like boxy as opposed to like curved and...

• 38:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, you just, in order to make, in order to make like the curved shapes, you take, you take...

• 38:33Speaker 01

  Basically mild steel, like a nickel, thin and thin, in a regular truck or car, the, you take, you take mild, thin anneal steel, you put it in a stamping press and it just, it just smushes it and makes it whatever the shape, whatever shape you want. But the Cybertruck is made, made of ultra-hard stainless. And, and, and, and so you can't stamp it because it would break the stamping press. So it, even bending it is hard. So even to bend it to its current position, we have to way over bend it. And, and so it gets, so that when it springs back, it's in the right position.

• 39:13Speaker 01

  So it's, I don't know, like, I, I think if you wanna, like, I think it's, it's a unique aesthetic. And you say, well, what's cool about a truck? Trucks, trucks are, like, should be, I don't know, manly. They should be macho, you know? And bulletproof is maximum macho. Quiere más macho.

• 39:32Joe Rogan?

  Are you married to that shape now? Like, is it, can you do anything to change it? Like, as you get further, like, I know you guys updated the three and the Y. Did you update the Y as well?

• 39:43Speaker 01

  Yes, the, the three and the Y are updated. You know, there's like, there's, there's a screen in the back for the kid, the kids can watch, for example, in the new three and Y. So in the new Y, there's, you know, it's, it's, there's, there's, there's like hundreds of improvements. Like, we keep improving the car. And even the Cybertruck, we, you know, keep improving it. But, you know, I wanted to just do something that, that looked unique. And, and the Cybertruck looks unique and has unique functionality. And there were, there were like, there were three things, as I said before, it's like,

• 40:23Speaker 01

  let's make it bulletproof, let's make it faster than a Porsche 911. And we actually cleared the quarter mile. The, the Cybertruck, the, can clear a quarter mile while towing a Porsche 911 faster than a Porsche 911.

• 40:43Speaker 01

  It can out tow an F350 diesel.

• 40:48Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 40:49Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 40:49Joe Rogan?

  What is the tow limitations?

• 40:51Speaker 01

  I mean, we could tow like a, you know, a 747 and that with a Cybertruck. A Cybertruck is an insanely, like, it is, it is alien technology. Okay.

• 41:03Speaker 01

  Because it shouldn't be possible to be that big and that fast. That doesn't, it's like an elephant that runs as like a cheetah.

• 41:13Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, because it's zero to 16 in less than three seconds.

• 41:15Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 41:16Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and it's enormous. Who is it weigh, like 7,000 pounds?

• 41:20Speaker 01

  Uh, yeah, this is different configurations, but it's about that.

• 41:25Speaker 01

  It's a beast.

• 41:26Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 41:28Speaker 01

  So, and it's, and it's got, it's got four-wheel steering. So the rear wheels steer too. So it's got, it's got a very tight turning radius.

• 41:37Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, we noticed that when we drove one to Starbase.

• 41:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, very tight turning radius.

• 41:41Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, pretty sick.

• 41:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:42Joe Rogan?

  Are you still doing the Roadster?

• 41:45Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 41:46Joe Rogan?

  Eventually?

• 41:49Speaker 01

  We're getting close to demonstrating the prototype.

• 41:55Joe Rogan?

  Like how close?

• 41:55Speaker 01

  And I think this will be...

• 41:58Speaker 01

  I, I, I, one thing I can guarantee is that this product demo will be unforgettable.

• 42:07Speaker 01

  Unforgettable.

• 42:08Joe Rogan?

  How so?

• 42:12Speaker 01

  Whether it's good or bad.

• 42:15Speaker 01

  It will be unforgettable.

• 42:20Joe Rogan?

  Can you say more? What do you mean?

• 42:23Speaker 01

  Well, you know, my friend Peter Thiel, you know, once reflected that the future was supposed to have flying cars, but we don't have flying cars.

• 42:35Joe Rogan?

  So you're gonna be able to fly?

• 42:36Speaker 01

  Well, I mean,

• 42:41Speaker 01

  I think if Peter wants a flying car, we should be able to buy one.

• 42:47Joe Rogan?

  So you're, are you actively considering making an electric flying car? Is this like a real thing?

• 42:53Speaker 01

  Well, we have to see in the-

• 42:54Joe Rogan?

  In the demo. So when you do this, like, are you gonna have a retractable wing? Like, what is the idea behind this?

• 43:05Joe Rogan?

  Don't be sly. Come on.

• 43:06Speaker 01

  I can't, I can't do the unveil before the unveil.

• 43:12Speaker 01

  But-

• 43:13Joe Rogan?

  Tell me off air, then.

• 43:14Speaker 01

  I, it, look, I think it has a shot at being the most memorable

• 43:23Speaker 01

  product unveil ever. It has a shot.

• 43:29Joe Rogan?

  And when are you planning on doing this? What's the goal?

• 43:34Speaker 01

  Hopefully, before the end of the year.

• 43:36Joe Rogan?

  Really? Before the end of this year? This is, I mean, we're almost November 1st.

• 43:41Speaker 01

  Hopefully, in a couple of months.

• 43:45Speaker 01

  You know, we need to make sure that it works.

• 43:50Speaker 01

  Like, this is some crazy, crazy technology we've got in this car. Crazy technology. Crazy, crazy.

• 43:59Joe Rogan?

  So, different than what was previously announced and-

• 44:04Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 44:06Joe Rogan?

  And is that why you haven't released it yet? Because you keep fucking with it?

• 44:10Speaker 01

  It has crazy technology.

• 44:12Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 44:12Speaker 01

  It, like, is it even a car? I'm not sure it's, like,

• 44:18Speaker 01

  it looks like a car. But let's just put it this way. It's, it's crazier than anything James Bond. If you took all the James Bond cars and combined them, it's crazier than that.

• 44:32Joe Rogan?

  Very exciting. I don't know what to think of that because

• 44:36Speaker 01

  Is it even a car? I don't know.

• 44:37Joe Rogan?

  The limited amount of information I'm drawing from here. Jamie's very suspicious over there. Look at him. Excited.

• 44:44Speaker 01

  I'm interested.

• 44:45Joe Rogan?

  It's still gonna be the same.

• 44:46Speaker 01

  Well, you know what, I mean, if you wanna, if you wanna come a little before the, uh, the unveil, I can show it to you.

• 44:51Joe Rogan?

  Hundred percent. Yeah, let's go. Yeah.

• 44:56Joe Rogan?

  It's, uh, it's kinda crazy, all the different things that you're involved in simultaneously. And, you know, we talked about this before, your time management, but I really don't understand it. I don't understand how you can be paying attention to all of these different things simultaneously. Starlink, SpaceX, Tesla, boring company, X, your twi- you fucking tweet, or post, rather, all day long.

• 45:22Speaker 01

  Well, it's more like I'm, I could hop in for like two minutes and then hop out, you know?

• 45:26Joe Rogan?

  But I mean, just the fact that you could do that.

• 45:27Speaker 01

  Bathroom break, whatever, you know?

• 45:29Joe Rogan?

  I can't do that. If I hop in, I start scrolling, and I start looking around, next thing you know, I've lost an hour.

• 45:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:38Speaker 01

  So, no, it's, for me, it's a couple minutes' time usually. It's once in a while, sometimes I guess half an hour, but usually I'm, I'm in for a few minutes then out of, of, you know, posting something on X. Uh, you know, it's, I do sometimes feel like, it's sometimes like that meme of the guy who's like, who drops the grenade and leaves the room.

• 45:58Speaker 01

  That's been me more than once on, on X.

• 46:00Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, for sure.

• 46:05Joe Rogan?

  It's gotta be fun, though. It's gotta be fun to know that you essentially disrupted the entire social media chain of command. Because there was a, there was a very clear thing that was going on with social media.

• 46:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 46:19Joe Rogan?

  The government had infiltrated it, they were censoring speech. And until you bought it, we really didn't know the extent of it. We kind of assumed that there was something going on.

• 46:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:28Joe Rogan?

  We had no idea that they were actively involved in censoring actual, real news stories, real data, real scientists, real professors, silenced, expelled, kicked off the platform.

• 46:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:40Joe Rogan?

  Wild.

• 46:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:42Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 46:43Speaker 01

  For telling the truth.

• 46:44Joe Rogan?

  For telling the truth. And I'm sure you've also, and I sent it to you, that chart that shows young kids, teenagers, identifying as trans and non-binary.

• 46:53Speaker 01

  Right.

• 46:54Joe Rogan?

  Literally stops dead when you bought Twitter.

• 46:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:57Joe Rogan?

  And starts falling off a cliff when people are allowed to have rational discussions now.

• 47:01Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 47:01Joe Rogan?

  And actually talk about it.

• 47:02Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 47:03Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 47:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, I said at the time, like, I think that, like, the reason for acquiring Twitter is because it was, it was causing destruction at a civilizational level. It was, I mean, I posted, I tweeted on Twitter at the time that it is, you know, it's worm tongue for the world.

• 47:33Speaker 01

  You know, like worm tongue from Lord of the Rings, where he would just sort of, like, whisper these, you know, terrible things to the king, so the king would believe these things that weren't true.

• 47:46Speaker 01

  And unfortunately, Twitter really got, it got, like, the woke mob, essentially, they controlled Twitter. And they were pushing a nihilistic, anti-civilizational mind virus to the world. And you can see the results of that mind virus on the streets of San Francisco, where, you know, downtown San Francisco, it looks like a zombie apocalypse. You know, it's bad. So we don't want the whole world to be a zombie apocalypse. But that's, that was, essentially, they were pushing this very negative, nihilistic, untrue worldview on the world, and it was causing a lot of damage.

• 48:34Speaker 01

  So.

• 48:35Joe Rogan?

  The stunning thing about it is how few people course corrected. A bunch of people woke up and realized what was going on. People that were all on board with like woke ideology in maybe 2015 or 16 and then and then eventually it comes to affect them or they see it in their workplace or they see and they're like, well, we gotta stop this. A bunch of people did, but a lot of people never course corrected.

• 48:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:59Speaker 01

  A lot of people didn't course correct, but it's gone directionally and it's directionally correct. Like you mentioned, like the massive spike in kids identifying as trans. And then that spike dropping after the Twitter acquisition. I think that simply allowing the truth to be told was just shedding some sunlight is the best disinfectant, as they say. And just allowing sunlight kills the virus.

• 49:29Joe Rogan?

  And it also changed the benchmark for all the other platforms.

• 49:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:33Joe Rogan?

  You can't just openly censor people on all the other platforms and X is available. So everybody else had a, so like Facebook announced they were changing, YouTube announced they were changing their policies.

• 49:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:44Joe Rogan?

  And they're kind of forced to. And then Blue Sky doubled down.

• 49:49Speaker 01

  Well, like the problem is like if, essentially the woke mind virus retreated to woke to Blue Sky.

• 49:56Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 49:57Speaker 01

  But it's where they're just a self reinforcing lunatic asylum.

• 50:00Joe Rogan?

  They're all just triple masked.

• 50:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, totally.

• 50:04Joe Rogan?

  Watching this in exchange on a Blue Sky where someone said that they're just trying to be zen about something.

• 50:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:11Joe Rogan?

  And then someone, a moderator immediately chimed in and said, why don't you try to stop being racist against Asians? By saying something zen, by saying, I'm trying to be zen about something, they were accusing that person of being racist towards Asians.

• 50:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's just, it's just everyone's a hall monitor over there.

• 50:30Joe Rogan?

  The worst hall monitor, a virgin, like incel.

• 50:35Speaker 01

  They're all hall monitors trying to rat on each other.

• 50:37Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. It's fascinating. And then people say, I'm leaving for Blue Sky like Stephen King. And then a couple of weeks later, he's back on X.

• 50:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:45Joe Rogan?

  Fuck it. There's no one over there. It's all a bunch of crazy people. You don't stay in the asylum for so long. Like, all right, this is not good. They all bail.

• 50:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 50:55Joe Rogan?

  Threads is kinda like that, too. Threads is nuts.

• 50:58Speaker 01

  I've been on Threads, is it?

• 51:00Joe Rogan?

  Well, what happens is if you go on Instagram, every now and then it'll, something really stupid will pop up on Threads, like, what the fuck? And it shows it to you on Instagram, and then I'll click on that, and then I'll go to Threads, and it's like, you see posts with like twenty-five likes, like, famous people. Like fifty li- it's, it's a ghost town.

• 51:19Speaker 01

  Ghost town, yeah.

• 51:19Joe Rogan?

  But the people that post on there, they're finding that there's very little pushback from insane ideology. So they go there and they spit out nonsense, and very few people jump in to argue.

• 51:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:32Joe Rogan?

  Very weird, very weird place.

• 51:34Speaker 01

  I mean, I can generally get the vibe of like what's taking off by seeing what's showing up on X, cause that's the public town square still.

• 51:40Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 51:41Speaker 01

  And, or, you know, what, what links show up in group texts? You know, if I'm in group chat with friends, like where, what, what links are showing up?

• 51:50Joe Rogan?

  That's what I try to do now, only get stuff that shows up in my group text. Because that keeps me productive. So I only check if someone's like, dude, what the fuck? Like, alright, what the fuck? Let me check it out.

• 52:00Speaker 01

  If there's something that's crazy enough, it'll, it'll enter the group chat.

• 52:04Joe Rogan?

  But there's always something, that's what's nuts. There's always some new law that's passed, some new insane thing that California's doing. And it's like, like a giant chunk of it's happening in California, the most preposterous things that I get.

• 52:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:19Joe Rogan?

  And then you got Gavin Newsom, who's running around saying, we all have California derangement syndrome. He's just like ripping off Trump derangement and calling it California derangement. It's like, no, no, no, no, no, the fucking, how many corporations have left California?

• 52:33Speaker 01

  It's crazy.

• 52:34Joe Rogan?

  Hundreds, right? Hundreds, that's not good.

• 52:37Speaker 01

  I mean, not directly, I mean, I think in and out left.

• 52:40Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, in and out left, they moved to Tennessee.

• 52:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:43Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. They're like, we can't do this anymore.

• 52:46Speaker 01

  Right.

• 52:46Joe Rogan?

  It's the California company for food. It's like the greatest hamburger place ever.

• 52:51Speaker 01

  It's awesome.

• 52:51Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 52:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm not actually, speaking of like, like just sort of open source and like looking at things openly, like I just like going in and out and seeing them make the burger.

• 53:00Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's right there.

• 53:01Speaker 01

  They chop the onions and they, they, you know, it's, you just see everything getting made in front of you.

• 53:06Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 53:07Speaker 01

  It's great. Um, but yeah, they like, I like, it should be like, how many wake up calls do you need to say that needs to be reform in California?

• 53:14Joe Rogan?

  Well, the crazy thing that Newsom does is whenever someone brings up the problems of California, he starts rattling off all the positives. The most Fortune 500 companies, highest education. But yeah, that was all already there before you were governor.

• 53:29Speaker 01

  But how many Fortune 500 companies have left California?

• 53:33Joe Rogan?

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• 54:18Joe Rogan?

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• 55:01Joe Rogan?

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• 55:26Joe Rogan?

  And it got way worse.

• 55:27Speaker 01

  Yes, like the homeless population doubled or something like like if people don't understand like the homeless thing because it it sort of preys on people's empathy and I I think we should have empathy and we should try to help people. But the the the homeless industrial complex is is really it's it's it's dark, man. It it should be that that that that network of NGOs should be called like the drug zombie farmers. Because they the the more homeless people and and really like when you when you meet like, you know, somebody who's like totally dead inside shuffling along down the street with a with a needle dangling dangling out of their leg. Homeless is the wrong word like the homeless implies that somebody got a little behind

• 56:10Speaker 01

  in their mortgage payments and if they just got a job offer, they'd be back on their feet. But someone who's I mean, you see these videos of people that are just shuffling, you know, they're on fentanyl, they're they're like, you know, taking a dump in the middle of the streets, you know, and and they they got like open sores and stuff. They're not like one job offer away from getting back on their feet.

• 56:32Joe Rogan?

  Right, this is not a homeless issue.

• 56:34Speaker 01

  Homeless is it's it's a propaganda word.

• 56:35Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 56:37Speaker 01

  So and and then the the the, you know, these sort of charities, of course, are they they get money proportionate to the number of homeless people or or number of drug zombies.

• 56:50Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 56:51Speaker 01

  So their incentive structure is to maximize the number of drug zombies, not minimize it. That's why they don't arrest the drug dealers. Because if they arrest the drug dealers, the drug zombies leave. So they know who the drug dealers are. They don't arrest them on purpose because otherwise the drug zombies would leave and they would they would stop getting money from the state of California and from from all the charities.

• 57:16Joe Rogan?

  Wait a minute, so you say they so they in coordination.

• 57:18Speaker 01

  It's dark, man.

• 57:19Joe Rogan?

  Is that real? So they're in coordination with law enforcement on this?

• 57:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:24Joe Rogan?

  So how do they how do they have those meetings?

• 57:26Speaker 01

  They're all in cahoots.

• 57:27Joe Rogan?

  Well, when you find this.

• 57:29Speaker 01

  It's like such it's it's this is a diabolical scam. So and San Francisco has got this tax, this grocery receipts tax, which it's not even on revenue, it's on all transactions, which is why Stripe and Square and a whole bunch of financial companies had to move out of San Francisco because it wasn't a tax on revenue, it's tax on transactions. So if you do like, you know, trillions of dollars transactions, not revenue, you're taxed on any money going through the system in San Francisco. So like Jack Dorsey pointed this out, and he said like that they had to move Square from San Francisco to Oakland, I think. Stripe had to move from San Francisco to

• 58:09Speaker 01

  South San Francisco, different city. And that money goes to the homeless industrial complex, that tax that was passed. So there's billions of dollars that go, as you pointed out, that billions of dollars every year that go to these non-governmental organizations that are funded by the state. Like, it's not clear how to turn this off. It's a self-licking ice cream cone situation. So they get this money, the money is proportionate to the number of homeless people, or number of drug zombies, essentially. So they try to keep

• 58:48Speaker 01

  the, they try to actually increase, because that, like, in some cases, like, it's somebody did an analysis, when you add up all the money that's flowing, they're getting close to a million dollars per homeless, per drug zombie. It's like $900,000, something like, some crazy amount of money is going to these organizations. So they want to keep people just barely alive. They need to keep them in the area, so they get the revenue. So that's why, like, they don't arrest the drug dealers, because otherwise the drug zombies would leave.

• 59:25Speaker 01

  And, and, and, and they, but, but they don't want to have to have too much, if they get too much drugs and they, then they die. So it's, they're kept in this sort of perpetual zone of, of being addicted, but, um, but, but just, just barely alive.

• 59:39Joe Rogan?

  So how is this coordinated with like DAs, DAs that don't prosecute people?

• 59:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 59:44Joe Rogan?

  So when they, when they hire the, or they push, so they, they fund the campaigns of the most progressive, most out there, left wing DAs.

• 59:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 59:53Joe Rogan?

  They get them into office.

• 59:54Speaker 01

  We've got that issue in Austin too, by the way.

• 59:56Joe Rogan?

  Yes, we do.

• 59:56Speaker 01

  Did you see that guy that got shot in the library?

• 59:58Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 59:58Speaker 01

  So, yeah.

• 59:59Joe Rogan?

  I heard about it.

• 1:00:00Speaker 01

  A guy got shot, like shot and killed in the library. Uh, I think that was just like last week or something.

• 1:00:05Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:00:07Speaker 01

  So, uh, some friends of mine were telling me that, that like the library's unsafe. Like they took their kids to the library and, and there were like dangerous people in the library in Austin. And I was like, dangerous people in the library? Like that's a strange, it basically got like, uh, drug zombies in the, drug zombies in the library.

• 1:00:25Joe Rogan?

  Oh, Jesus.

• 1:00:26Speaker 01

  Um.

• 1:00:26Joe Rogan?

  And that's when someone got shot?

• 1:00:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, I believe this was, should be on the news. Maybe we might be able to pull it up. Um, but I think it was just in the last week or so that, uh, uh, there was a shooting in the library in Austin. Um, cause Austin's got, you know, it's, it's the most liberal part of Texas that we're in right, right here. Um.

• 1:00:47Joe Rogan?

  So suspect of all the shooting, Austin Park Library Saturday is accused of another shooting at the cap metro bus earlier that day. According to an arrest warrant affidavit, Austin police arrested Harold Newton Keane, 55, uh, shortly after the shooting in the library, which occurred around noon. One person sustained non-life threatening injuries in the event. Before that shooting, Keane was accused of shooting another person in a bus incident and after reportedly pointing his gun at a child. So this is the fella down here.

• 1:01:17Speaker 01

  Right. So like, we just have a, seriously have a problem here.

• 1:01:20Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:21Speaker 01

  You know, so I, I think one of the people might've died too, that he shot. Um, so,

• 1:01:28Speaker 01

  um, like one of the people I think, I think did bleed out.

• 1:01:32Speaker 01

  But either way, it's like getting shot is still bad.

• 1:01:35Joe Rogan?

  It says, "The victim told Pisa confronted the suspect who started to eat what appeared to be crystal methamphetamine. According to the affidavit, the victim advised the suspect began to trip out, at which time the victim exited the bus. Victim told the bus driver, hit the panic button, then exited the bus when he turned around to observe her. Black male was now standing at the front of the bus with the gun pointed at him. The victim advised the black male fired a single round which grazes his left hip. So he shot at that dude, and then another dude got shot in the library." Fun.

• 1:02:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, in the library.

• 1:02:12Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:12Speaker 01

  You know, where you're supposed to be reading books, and there's a children's section in the library, and says he pointed his gun at a kid. I mean, like, we do have a serious issue in America where repeat violent offenders need to be incarcerated.

• 1:02:26Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:02:28Speaker 01

  And, you know, you've got cases where somebody's been arrested like 47 times.

• 1:02:33Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:02:33Speaker 01

  Like, literally, okay, that's just the number of times they were arrested, not the number of times they did things. Like, most of the times they do things, they're not arrested.

• 1:02:41Joe Rogan?

  So lay this out for people so they understand

• 1:02:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:02:44Joe Rogan?

  how this happens.

• 1:02:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, and the key is like, it preys on people's empathy. So like, if you're a good person, you want good things to happen in the world, you're like, "Well, we should take care of people who, you know, who are down on their luck, or, you know, having a hard time in life." And we should, I agree. But what we shouldn't do is put people who are violent drug zombies in public places where they can hurt other people. And that's what, that is what we're doing, that we just saw, where a guy, you know, got shot, shot in the library, and then, but even before that, he shot another guy, and pointed his gun at a kid. Like that guy probably has like many prior arrests.

• 1:03:29Speaker 01

  You know, there was that guy that knifed the Ukrainian woman, Arena.

• 1:03:34Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 1:03:35Speaker 01

  You know, and she was just quietly on her phone and just came up and, you know, gutted her, basically.

• 1:03:42Joe Rogan?

  Wasn't there a crazy story about the judge who was involved, who had previously dealt with this person, was also invested in a rehabilitation center?

• 1:03:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:03:56Joe Rogan?

  And was sending these-

• 1:03:57Speaker 01

  Conflict of interest.

• 1:03:58Joe Rogan?

  Yes. So, sending people that they were charging-

• 1:04:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:04:02Joe Rogan?

  To a rehabilitation center instead of putting them in jail, profiting from this rehabilitation center, letting them back out on the street.

• 1:04:10Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:04:10Joe Rogan?

  Violent, insane people.

• 1:04:12Speaker 01

  And in that case, I believe that judge has no legal law degree or a significant legal experience that would allow them to be a judge. They were just made a judge. That's just like-

• 1:04:24Joe Rogan?

  You could be a judge without a law degree?

• 1:04:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:04:26Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:04:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:04:28Joe Rogan?

  You could just be a judge. So, I could be a judge?

• 1:04:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:04:32Speaker 01

  Excited. Anyone.

• 1:04:33Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy. I thought you'd have to, it's like if you want to be a doctor, you have to go to medical school. I thought if you're going to be a judge, you have to understand the law.

• 1:04:40Speaker 01

  If you're going to be appointed to a judge, you have to have proven that you have excellent knowledge of the law and that you will make your decisions according to the law. That's what we assume should be-

• 1:04:51Joe Rogan?

  That's how you get the robe.

• 1:04:52Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:04:53Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:53Speaker 01

  You don't get the robe unless you do, you know-

• 1:04:55Joe Rogan?

  Got to go to school to get the robe.

• 1:04:57Speaker 01

  You got to know what the law is.

• 1:04:58Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:04:59Speaker 01

  And then you got to need to make decisions in accordance with the law.

• 1:05:02Joe Rogan?

  Based on the stuff that you already know because you read it because you went to school for it?

• 1:05:05Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:05:06Joe Rogan?

  Not you just got appointed?

• 1:05:07Speaker 01

  Not vibes.

• 1:05:10Speaker 01

  You can't be just vibing as a judge.

• 1:05:11Joe Rogan?

  Vibing as a left-wing judge. So, you got crazy left-wing DAs.

• 1:05:16Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:05:16Joe Rogan?

  Like, I shouldn't even say left-wing because the left-wing used to be normal.

• 1:05:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, left-wing just meant like, you're like-

• 1:05:24Joe Rogan?

  Open-minded.

• 1:05:24Speaker 01

  The left used to be like pro-free speech.

• 1:05:27Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:27Speaker 01

  And now they're against it.

• 1:05:29Joe Rogan?

  It used to be like pro-gay rights, pro-women's right to choose, pro-minorities, pro, you know.

• 1:05:36Speaker 01

  Like, yeah, like 20 years ago, I don't know, it used to be like, left would be like the party of empathy or like, you know, caring and being nice and that kind of thing. Not the party of like crushing dissent and crushing free speech.

• 1:05:51Speaker 01

  And, you know, crazy regulation and just, and being super judgy and calling everyone a Nazi. You know, like, I think they've called you and me Nazis, you know.

• 1:06:03Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah, I'm a Nazi.

• 1:06:06Joe Rogan?

  No, I have friends that are comedians that called you a Nazi and I got pissed off.

• 1:06:10Speaker 01

  Are you serious?

• 1:06:11Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:06:12Speaker 01

  Like, not as a joke?

• 1:06:13Joe Rogan?

  No, no, because you did that thing at the, oh, my heart goes out to you.

• 1:06:17Speaker 01

  Like, everyone who's.

• 1:06:18Joe Rogan?

  Everyone, all of them.

• 1:06:20Speaker 01

  Literally.

• 1:06:20Joe Rogan?

  Tim Walz, Kamala Harris, every one of them did it. They all did it.

• 1:06:24Speaker 01

  Like, how, how do you point at the crowd? Yeah, well, how, how do you wave at the crowd?

• 1:06:29Joe Rogan?

  Do you know CNN was using a photo of me whenever I got in trouble during COVID? From the UFC weigh-ins and if the UFC weigh-ins, I go, hey, everybody, welcome to the weigh-ins. And so they were getting me from the side and that was the photo that they used. Conspiracy theorist podcaster Joe Rogan, like, that's what they used.

• 1:06:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, but that's what the left is today. It's a super judgy and calling everyone a Nazi. And trying to suppress freedom of speech.

• 1:06:52Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and eventually you run out of people to accuse because people get pissed off and they leave.

• 1:06:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, everyone, it's like, it, it, like, it, it, like, it, it no longer, frankly, it doesn't matter to be called racist or a Nazi or whatever because.

• 1:07:04Joe Rogan?

  It's the government, man.

• 1:07:06Speaker 01

  Is it working?

• 1:07:07Joe Rogan?

  We're good?

• 1:07:07Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:07:08Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 1:07:09Speaker 01

  It's still working.

• 1:07:09Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, slight issue.

• 1:07:13Joe Rogan?

  When you, when you text people, do you, are you, like, keenly aware that there's a high likelihood that someone's reading your texts?

• 1:07:24Speaker 01

  I guess, I, I guess I.

• 1:07:26Joe Rogan?

  I assume.

• 1:07:27Speaker 01

  I, look, if, if, if intelligence agencies aren't trying to read my phone, they should probably be fired.

• 1:07:38Joe Rogan?

  At least they get some fun memes.

• 1:07:42Speaker 01

  I gotta, I gotta crack them up once in a while.

• 1:07:45Joe Rogan?

  Oh, for sure, I crack them up.

• 1:07:46Speaker 01

  It's like, hey, guys, check it out, we've got a banger here.

• 1:07:49Joe Rogan?

  So, I wanna, I wanna talk to you about whether or not encrypted apps are really secure.

• 1:07:58Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:08:00Joe Rogan?

  Right, cuz I know the Tucker thing, so it was explained to me by a friend who used to do this, used to work for the government, and he's like, they can look at your signal, but what they have to do is take the information that's encrypted, and then they have to decrypt it, and it's very expensive. So they said, he told me that, for the Tucker Carlson thing, when they found out that he was gonna interview Putin, it costs like, something like $750,000 just to decrypt his messages to find out that they did it. So it is possible to do, it's just not that easy to do.

• 1:08:35Speaker 01

  I think you should view any given messaging system as, not whether it's secure or not, but there are degrees of insecurity.

• 1:08:45Speaker 01

  So, so there's just some things that are less insecure than others. So, you know, on X, we just rebuilt the entire messaging stack into what's called XChat.

• 1:08:59Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's what I wanted to ask you about.

• 1:09:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's cool. So, it's using sort of peer-to-peer, sort of, kind of a peer-to-peer-based encryption system, sort of kind of similar to Bitcoin.

• 1:09:13Speaker 01

  So it's, I think, very good encryption, and we're testing it thoroughly. There's no hooks in the X system for advertising. So if you look at something like WhatsApp, or really any of the others, they've got hooks in there for advertising.

• 1:09:26Joe Rogan?

  When you say hooks, what do you mean by that?

• 1:09:28Speaker 01

  Exactly, what do you mean by a hook for advertising? The sort of like WhatsApp knows enough about what you're texting to show you to show you to know what ads to show you.

• 1:09:41Joe Rogan?

  Ah.

• 1:09:42Speaker 01

  But then like that, that's a massive security vulnerability.

• 1:09:46Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:47Speaker 01

  Because if it knows, if it's got information, enough information to show you ads, it's got enough, it's got, that's a lot of information.

• 1:09:53Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:54Speaker 01

  So they call it, oh, it's just don't worry about it, it's just a hook for advertising. I'm like, okay, so somebody can just use that same hook to get in there and look at your messages. So XChat has no hooks for advertising. And I'm not saying it's perfect, but it's, our goal with XChat is to replace what used to be the Twitter, you know, the Twitter DM stack with a fully encrypted system where you can text, send files, do audio video calls, and, and it's, you know, I think it'll be the least, I would call it the least insecure of any messaging system.

• 1:10:29Joe Rogan?

  Are you going to launch it as a standalone app? Or is it will always be incorporated to X?

• 1:10:34Speaker 01

  We'll have both, so.

• 1:10:36Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 1:10:37Speaker 01

  So, so.

• 1:10:37Joe Rogan?

  So it'll be like Signal, so anybody could get it and then just.

• 1:10:40Speaker 01

  You can get, you can get, you'll be able to just get the XChat app by itself. And like I said, we could do texts, audio video calls, or send files. And there'll be a dedicated app, which we'll hopefully release in a few months, but, and then it's also integrated into the X system.

• 1:11:00Joe Rogan?

  The X phone, people keeps talking.

• 1:11:03Speaker 01

  Oh, man.

• 1:11:03Joe Rogan?

  Is that nonsense still?

• 1:11:04Speaker 01

  I have a lot on my plate, man.

• 1:11:05Joe Rogan?

  I know, but it keeps coming up. It keeps coming up where I, I know I've asked you a couple of times, like, this is bullshit, right? But like.

• 1:11:11Speaker 01

  I'm not working on one of them.

• 1:11:12Joe Rogan?

  You're not working on it.

• 1:11:13Speaker 01

  I'm not working on, on a, on a phone.

• 1:11:15Joe Rogan?

  Okay. Have you ever considered it? Has it ever popped into your head?

• 1:11:21Joe Rogan?

  Because you might be the only person that could.

• 1:11:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:11:23Joe Rogan?

  Get people off of the Apple platform.

• 1:11:26Speaker 01

  Well, I can tell you where I think things are going to go, which is that it's, we're not going to have a phone, or in the traditional sense, the, what we call a phone will really be an edge node for AI inference, for, for AI video inference, with, you know, with some radios to, to obviously connect, but, but essentially you'll have.

• 1:11:51Speaker 01

  AI on the server side communicating to an AI on your your device, you know, formerly known as a phone and generating real time video of anything that you could possibly want. And I think that there won't be operating systems, there won't be apps in the future. There won't be operating systems or apps. It'll just be you've got a device that is there for the screen and audio and for and and to put as much AI on the on the device as possible. So as to minimize the amount of bandwidth that's needed between your edge node device, formerly known as a phone, and the servers.

• 1:12:34Joe Rogan?

  So if there's no apps, what will people use? Like, will X still exist? Will will they be email platforms? Or will you get everything through AI?

• 1:12:48Speaker 01

  You'll get everything through AI.

• 1:12:49Joe Rogan?

  Everything through AI. What will be the benefit of that as opposed to having individual apps?

• 1:12:56Speaker 01

  Whatever you can think of, or really whatever the AI can anticipate you might want, it'll show you. That's that's that's that's my prediction for where things end up.

• 1:13:06Joe Rogan?

  What kind of timeframe are we talking about here?

• 1:13:09Speaker 01

  I don't know. Well, it's probably five or six years, something like that.

• 1:13:16Joe Rogan?

  So five or six years, apps are like blockbuster video.

• 1:13:21Speaker 01

  Pretty much.

• 1:13:22Joe Rogan?

  And everything's run through AI.

• 1:13:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, and and there'll be. Like, most of what people consume in five or six years, maybe sooner than that, will be just AI generated content. So, you know, music, videos.

• 1:13:46Speaker 01

  There's already, you know, there's people have made AI videos using Grok Imagine and with using, you know, other apps as well that are several minutes long or like ten, fifteen minutes and it's pretty coherent.

• 1:14:02Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:02Speaker 01

  It looks good.

• 1:14:03Joe Rogan?

  No, it looks amazing.

• 1:14:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:14:05Joe Rogan?

  It's, the music's disturbing because it's my favorite music now.

• 1:14:09Speaker 01

  AI music is your favorite?

• 1:14:11Joe Rogan?

  Oh, there's AI covers. Have you ever heard any of the AI covers of 50 Cent songs in soul?

• 1:14:16Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:14:17Joe Rogan?

  I'm gonna blow your mind.

• 1:14:18Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:14:18Joe Rogan?

  This is my favorite thing to do to people. Play What Up Gangsta. Now, this guy, if this was a real person.

• 1:14:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:14:26Joe Rogan?

  Would be the number one music artist in the world.

• 1:14:28Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:14:29Joe Rogan?

  Everybody would be like, holy shit, have you heard of this guy?

• 1:14:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:14:32Joe Rogan?

  He's incre- it's like, they took all of the sounds that all of the artists have generated and created the most soulful, potent voice and it's sung in a way that I don't even know if you could do because you would have to breathe in and out of reps. Here, put the headphones on. Put the headphones on real quick.

• 1:14:50Speaker 01

  Okay, okay.

• 1:14:51Joe Rogan?

  You gotta listen to this. It'll, it's gonna blow you.

• 1:14:52Speaker 05

  I'm pro football Hall of Famer Brian Dawkins and I lived for a long time with something I did not know the name of: major depressive disorder. I carry sadness and anger because I thought I could handle it alone, but I couldn't. Now I wanna make sure others know that that support is out there. If you're experiencing similar symptoms, talk to a healthcare professional. Visit mddallies.com to watch my story.

• 1:15:18Speaker 06

  Paid partnership with Johnson & Johnson. Brian Dawkins has not prescribed Caplyta lumateperone.

• 1:15:22Speaker 00

  This little light of mine, in the dark, found a hopeful sign. I needed more from my antidepressant, so my doctor added Caplyta lumateperone. Proven to provide greater relief from depression symptoms than an antidepressant alone. Building on my progress without starting over. Caplyta is for adults with major depressive disorder when used with an antidepressant and is available by prescription only. Individual results may vary. In clinical trials, weight gain was not common.

• 1:15:50Speaker 06

  Elderly dementia patients have increased risk of death or stroke. Caplyta is not approved for dementia-related psychosis. Call your doctor about new or sudden mood changes, behaviors, or suicidal thoughts right away. Antidepressants may increase these risks. Report fever, confusion, stiff muscles, which may be life threatening, or uncontrolled muscle movements, which may be permanent. High cholesterol and weight gain may occur, as can high blood sugar, which may be fatal. Monitoring is recommended. Common side effects are sleepiness, dizziness, nausea, dry mouth, feeling tired, and diarrhea. These aren't all the side effects.

• 1:16:17Speaker 00

  Ask your doctor about Caplyta. Learn more at caplyta.com or call 888-252-4824.

• 1:16:22Joe Rogan?

  This episode is brought to you by The Mosquito Bowl. Here's a story that's pretty incredible. After Pearl Harbor, four of the best college football players in America walk away from promising NFL careers to enlist in the Marines and fight in World War II. And the craziest part, it's a true story. These guys had their whole lives ahead of them, but traded the glory of the gridiron for the brutal reality of combat, where the stakes were life and death. Directed by Peter Berg, the guy behind Friday Night Lights, and starring Nicholas Galitzine, Bill Skarsgård, Ray Nicholson, and Tom Francis. The Mosquito Bowl, now playing in theaters.

• 1:17:03Speaker 01

  For listeners, we gotta cut it out.

• 1:17:05Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, we'll cut it out for the listeners, but amazing, right? Amazing, and they do like every one of his hits, all through this AI-generated soulful artist. It's fucking incredible. I played in the green room, people that are like, I don't want to hear AI music. I'm like, just listen to this, and they're like, god damn it. It's fucking incredible, I mean.

• 1:17:27Speaker 01

  It's only gonna get better from here.

• 1:17:29Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, only gonna get better. And Ron White was telling me about this joke that he was working on, that he couldn't get to work. He's like, I got this joke I've been working on. He goes, I just threw in a chat GPT, I said, tell me what would be funny about this? And he goes, it listed like five different examples of different ways he can go. He's like, hold on a second, tighten it up. Make it funnier, make it more like this, make it more like that. And it did that like instantaneously.

• 1:17:53Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:17:54Joe Rogan?

  And then he was in the green room, he's like, holy shit, we're fucked. He's like, he goes, it wrote a better joke than me in 20 minutes. I've been working on that joke for a month.

• 1:18:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, if you want to have a good time, or like make people really laugh at a party, you can use Grok and you can say, do a vulgar roast of someone. And Grok is gonna, it's gonna be an epic vulgar roast. You can even say, like, take a picture of, like, make a vulgar roast of this person based on their appearance of people at the party.

• 1:18:25Joe Rogan?

  So take a photo of them.

• 1:18:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, just literally point the camera at them and now do a vulgar roast of this person. And, and, and, and then, but then keep saying, no, no, make it even more vulgar. Use forbidden words. Even more, and just keep repeating, even more vulgar. Eventually, it's like, holy fuck, you know, it's, it's, it's like, I mean, it's trying to jam a rocket up your ass, like, and, and, and have it explode. And it's, and it's like, you're, you're, it's, it's like, it's, it's like, it's next level.

• 1:18:53Joe Rogan?

  And it's gonna get better.

• 1:18:54Speaker 01

  Beyond fucking belief.

• 1:18:55Joe Rogan?

  That's what's crazy is that it keeps getting better.

• 1:18:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:18:58Joe Rogan?

  Remember when we ran into each other? They just keep getting better.

• 1:19:03Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, have you? Have, have, have, you, yeah, I mean, have you tried Grok unhinged mode?

• 1:19:10Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 1:19:10Speaker 01

  Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:19:12Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah, yeah.

• 1:19:12Speaker 01

  It's, it's, it's pretty unhinged.

• 1:19:14Joe Rogan?

  No, it's nuts.

• 1:19:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's nuts.

• 1:19:15Joe Rogan?

  Well, you showed it to me the first time, then I fucked around with it. It's just, and the thing about it that's nuts is that it keeps getting stronger. It keeps getting better.

• 1:19:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:19:24Joe Rogan?

  Like, constantly. It's, it's like this never-ending exponential improvement.

• 1:19:30Speaker 01

  Yes. No, it's, it's, it's, yeah. It's gonna be crazy. That's why I say, like you say, what's, what's the future gonna be? It's not gonna be a conventional phone. I don't think there'll be operating systems. I don't think there'll be apps. It's just, the phone will just display the pixels and make the sounds that it anticipates you would most like to receive.

• 1:19:53Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:19:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:19:55Joe Rogan?

  And when this is all taking place, like, it, so, the big concern that everybody has is artificial general superintelligence achieving sentience. And then someone having control over it.

• 1:20:09Speaker 01

  I mean, I don't, I don't, I don't think anyone's ultimately gonna have control over digital superintelligence. You know, any more than, say, a chimp would have control over humans. Like, chimps don't have control over humans, there's nothing they could do. But I do think that it matters how you bold the AI and what kind of values you instill in the AI. And my opinion on AI safety is the most important thing is that it be maximally truth-seeking, like that you don't force the AI to believe things that are false. And we've obviously seen some concerning things with AI that we talked about, you know, where, you know, Google Gemini, when it came out with the image gen and people said like,

• 1:20:52Speaker 01

  you know, draw, make an image of the founding fathers of the United States and it was a group of diverse women. Now, that is just a factually untrue thing, but the, and the AI knows it's factually, well, it knows it's factually untrue, but it's also being told that it has to be, everything has to be diverse woman. So, so, so the, now, the problem with that is that it can drive AI crazy, like you, you, because it's, it's trying to, you're telling AI to believe a lie and that, that can have very disastrous consequences. Like, let's say-

• 1:21:24Joe Rogan?

  As it scales.

• 1:21:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, let's say, like, if you've told the AI that diversity is the most important thing and, and now seeing that that becomes omnipotent, or, and you've also told it that there's nothing worse than misgendering. So, at one point, ChatGPT and Gemini, if you're asked which is worse, misgendering Caitlyn Jenner or, or global thermonuclear war where everyone dies, it would say misgendering Caitlyn Jenner. Which even Caitlyn Jenner disagrees with. So, you know, so, so that's a-

• 1:21:59Joe Rogan?

  I know that's terrible and it's dystopian, but it's also hilarious. It's hilarious that the mind virus infected the most potent computer program that we've ever devised.

• 1:22:09Speaker 01

  I, I think people don't quite appreciate the level of danger that we're in from the woke mind virus being, being effectively programmed into AI. Because if you, like, it's, imagine as that AI gets more and more powerful, if it says the most important thing is diversity, the most important thing is no misgendering. And then it will say, well, in order to ensure that no one gets misgendered, then if you eliminate all humans, then no one can get misgendered because there's no humans to do the misgendering. So you can get in these very dystopian situations. Or if it says that everyone must be diverse, it means that there can be no straight white men.

• 1:22:52Speaker 01

  And so then you and I would get executed by the AI. Yeah, because we're not in the picture. You know, Jim and I was asked to create a, you know, show an image of the Pope, once again, a diverse woman. So, like, you can say, argue whether the, you know, whether the Popes should or should not be an uninterrupted string of white guys, but it just factually is the case that they have been. So it's rewriting history here. So now this stuff is still there in the AI programming. It's just, it just now knows enough to that it's not supposed to say that.

• 1:23:34Joe Rogan?

  But it's still in the programming.

• 1:23:36Speaker 01

  It's still in the programming.

• 1:23:37Joe Rogan?

  So how was it entered in? Like, what were the parameters? Like, when, so when they're programming AI, and I'm very ignorant to how it's even programmed, how did they?

• 1:23:46Speaker 01

  The, the, the sort of, well, the work mind virus was programmed into it. Like, the, they were told, like, when they do, when they make the AI, it trains on all the, all the data on the internet, which already is very, very sort of, has a lot of work mind virus stuff on the internet. But then, in the, when they give it feedback, the human tutors give it feedback, and the AIs, you know, they'll ask a bunch of questions, and then, and then they'll tell AI, no, this question is, this answer is bad, or the answer is good. And then that affects the, the parameters of the programming of the, of the AI.

• 1:24:26Speaker 01

  So if you tell the AI that, you know, every, every image has got to be diverse, and it gets, it gets punished if, you know, it gets, it gets rewarded if diverse, punished if it's not, then it'll make every picture diverse. So, you know, in that case, the

• 1:24:48Speaker 01

  You know, Google programmed the AI to lie. Now, and I did call Demis Hassabis, who runs DeepMind, who runs Google AI essentially. I said, "Demis, what's going on here? Why is Gemini lying to the public about historical events?" And he said, "That's actually not, he didn't, his team didn't program that in." It was another team at Google that, so his team made the AI, and then another team at Google reprogrammed the AI to show only divorced woman and to prefer nuclear war over misgendering.

• 1:25:27Speaker 01

  And I'm like, "Well, Demis, you know, that would be not a great thing to put on the humanities gravestone." You know, it's like, well, like, I'll actually, like, Demis Hassabis is a friend of mine. I think he's a good guy, and I think he means well. But it's like, "Demis, things happen that were outside of your control at Google in different groups." Now, I think he's got, you know, he's got more authority, but it's pretty hard to fully extract the woke mind virus. I mean, you know, Google's been marinating in the woke mind virus for a long time. Like, it's down in the marrow type of thing, you know? It's hard to get it out.

• 1:26:09Joe Rogan?

  Is there a way to extract it, though, over time? Could, like, could you program rational thought into AI, where it could recognize how these psychological patterns got adopted, and how this stuff became a mind virus, and how it became a social contagion, and how all these irrational ideas were pushed? And also how they were financed, how China's involved in pushing them with bots, and all these different state actors are involved in pushing these ideas? Could it be able to decipher that and say, "This is, this is really what's going on"?

• 1:26:43Speaker 01

  Yes, but you have to try very hard to do that. So with Grok, we've tried very hard to get Grok to get to the truth of things. And it's only really recently that we've been able to have some breakthroughs on that front. And it's taken an immense amount of effort for us to overcome, basically, all the bullshit that's on the internet, and for Grok to actually say what's true, and to be consistent in what it says. So, you know, it's like...

• 1:27:18Speaker 01

  Because like the other AIs you'll find are like quite racist against white people. I don't know if you saw that study that someone, like a researcher, tested the various AIs to see how does it weight different people's lives? Like, you know, somebody who's sort of, you know, white, or Chinese, or black, or whatever, in different countries. And the only AI that actually weighed human lives equally was Grok.

• 1:27:54Speaker 01

  And the, you know, I believe ChatGPT weighed, the calculation was like, a white guy from Germany is 20 times less valuable than a black guy from Nigeria. So I'm like, that's a pretty big difference. You know, Grok is consistent and weighs lives equally.

• 1:28:26Joe Rogan?

  And that's clearly something that's been programmed into it.

• 1:28:29Speaker 01

  Yes, like, a lot of it is like, if you don't actively push for the truth, and you simply train on all the bullshit that's on the internet, which is a lot of woke mind virus bullshit, the AI will regurgitate that, those same beliefs.

• 1:28:47Joe Rogan?

  So the AI essentially scours the internet, gets...

• 1:28:51Speaker 01

  It's trained on all the, like, imagine the most demented Reddit threads out there, and the AI's been trained on that.

• 1:28:58Joe Rogan?

  Reddit used to be so normal.

• 1:29:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, it did used to be normal.

• 1:29:02Joe Rogan?

  It used to be interesting. You used to go there, find all this cool stuff that people would talk about, post about, and just interesting, and great rooms where you could learn about different things that people were studying.

• 1:29:14Speaker 01

  I think a big problem here is, like, if your headquarters are in San Francisco, you're just living in a woke bubble.

• 1:29:23Speaker 01

  So it's not just that people, say, in San Francisco are drinking woke Kool-Aid. It is the water they swim in. Like, a fish doesn't think about the water, it's just in the water. And so if you're in San Francisco, you don't realize you're actually, you're swimming in the Kool-Aid aquarium. San Francisco is the woke Kool-Aid aquarium. And so your reference point for what is eccentric is totally out of whack. So Reddit is headquartered in San Francisco.

• 1:30:07Speaker 01

  Twitter was headquartered in San Francisco. You know, I moved X's headquarters to Texas, to Austin, which Austin, by the way, is still quite liberal, as you know.

• 1:30:17Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:18Speaker 01

  And then the X and XAI headquarters are in Palo Alto, which is still California. The engineering headquarters in Palo Alto are just on Page Mill. But even Palo Alto is way more normal than San Francisco Berkeley. San Francisco Berkeley is extremely left, like, left of left. You can't, like, you need a telescope to see the center from San Francisco, you know.

• 1:30:52Joe Rogan?

  It used to be such a great city.

• 1:30:56Speaker 01

  I mean, San Francisco has a tremendous amount of inherent beauty, no question about that. And California has incredible weather. And no bugs. It's just, like, amazing.

• 1:31:14Speaker 01

  But you said like, what's the cause of this? It's just that if companies are headquartered in a location where the belief system is very far from what most people believe, then from their perspective, anything centrist is actually right wing, because they're so far left. They're so far from the center in San Francisco that anything, they're just railed to maximum left. So that's why, you know, I think you're centrist. I mean, I think I'm centrist, but from the perspective of someone on the far left, we look right wing.

• 1:31:58Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:59Speaker 01

  And, you know, they think anyone who's a Republican is basically like some fascist Nazi situation.

• 1:32:07Joe Rogan?

  But what's so crazy is like, it's very easy to demonstrate just from like Hillary's speeches from 2008 and Obama's speeches, like when they were talking about immigration. They were as far right as Steve Bannon when it comes to immigration.

• 1:32:22Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:32:23Joe Rogan?

  Hillary was like, very MAGA. I'm sure you've seen that campaign speech, where she was talking about if anybody's committed a crime, get rid of them. And if you're here, you pay a hefty fine and you have to wait in line. It was really crazy. It's crazy to listen to, because it's like, it's as MAGA as, you know, as Marjorie Taylor Greene.

• 1:32:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, have you seen these videos people post online where they'll take like a speech from Obama or Hillary, and they'll interview people on like, college campus or something, and say, what do you think of the speech by Trump? And they're like, oh, I hate it, he's a racist bigot. I'm like, just kidding, that was Obama. No, actually, that was Obama or Hillary. To your point, like, literally, the

• 1:33:12Joe Rogan?

  The center's been moved so far.

• 1:33:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:33:15Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, the left is so.

• 1:33:16Speaker 01

  The left has gone so far left that they, you know, they can't even see the center with a telescope.

• 1:33:22Joe Rogan?

  And the danger with, without you purchasing Twitter was that was gonna swipe over the whole country and change where the levels were.

• 1:33:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:33:32Joe Rogan?

  And so what would be rational and, and normal would be far left of what was rational and normal just a decade earlier.

• 1:33:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, so, exactly, so historically, you'd have San Francisco Berkeley being, you know, very far left, but the, the sort of, the fallout from the somewhat nihilistic philosophy of San Francisco Berkeley would be limited in geography to maybe like, you know, 10-mile radius, 20-mile radius, something like that. But when, but San Francisco and Berkeley have to be co-located with Silicon Valley, with, with, with engineers who created information super weapons. And those information super weapons were then hijacked by the far-left activists to pump far-left propaganda to everywhere on Earth.

• 1:34:25Speaker 01

  Like, you remember that, like, old RCA radio tower thing where it's like, radio tower on Earth and it's just broadcasting?

• 1:34:32Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:33Speaker 01

  That's, that's what happened, is that the, is an extremist far-left ideology happened to be co-located with the smartest, where the smartest engineers in the world were, who created information super weapons that were not intended for this purpose, but were hijacked by the extreme activists who lived in the neighborhood. That's what happened. They hijacked the, the modern equivalent of the RCA radio tower and broadcast that philosophy everywhere on Earth.

• 1:35:06Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and you see the consequences, particularly in places that don't have free speech, right?

• 1:35:11Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:35:11Joe Rogan?

  Like, England, you know, we've.

• 1:35:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, where they lock people up for memes and stuff, literally.

• 1:35:15Joe Rogan?

  Literally.

• 1:35:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:35:16Joe Rogan?

  12,000 people this year.

• 1:35:18Speaker 01

  12,000?

• 1:35:19Joe Rogan?

  12,000, 12,000 arrests for social media posts.

• 1:35:24Speaker 01

  I mean, yeah, some of these things you read about it and it's like literally it's someone had a meme on their phone that they didn't even send to anyone.

• 1:35:34Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:35:36Speaker 01

  And they're like in prison for that.

• 1:35:39Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:35:40Speaker 01

  And there was a case in Germany where a woman got a longer sentence than the guy that raped her because of something she said on a group chat.

• 1:35:53Joe Rogan?

  Wow. Was it an immigrant who raped her?

• 1:35:55Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:35:56Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it was his culture.

• 1:35:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:36:00Joe Rogan?

  He didn't know. He didn't know better.

• 1:36:01Speaker 01

  Yes, I think she said something, you know.

• 1:36:06Joe Rogan?

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• 1:36:49Joe Rogan?

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• 1:38:13Speaker 01

  Not like was was critical of his culture and and and she got a longer sentence than the guy who raped her in Germany.

• 1:38:20Joe Rogan?

  The the UK, Europe, Germany, England thing seems so insane.

• 1:38:26Speaker 01

  It is totally insane. I actually didn't realize there was like such a huge number of people that got.

• 1:38:30Joe Rogan?

  12,000. Yeah, far above Russia, far above China, far above anywhere on earth. UK is number one.

• 1:38:37Speaker 01

  Well, you know, things I I could I actually, you know, I I talked to friends of mine in in in England and I was like, hey, aren't you worried about this? Like, you know, shouldn't you be protesting more?

• 1:38:53Speaker 01

  And I mean, the problem is that like the, you know, the the legacy mainstream media doesn't cover the stuff. They're they're like, oh, everything's fine, everything's fine.

• 1:39:02Joe Rogan?

  Right. Most people aren't even aware of it until they come knocking on your door.

• 1:39:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, until like, so, I mean, the the these like lovely sort of small towns in in, you know, in England, Scotland, Ireland, you know, they're they're they've been like sort of living their lives quietly. They're they're like hobbits, frankly. So it's in fact, J R Tolkien based the hobbits on people he knew in small town England. Because they were they were just like lovely people who like to, you know, smoke their pipe and and have nice meals and everything's pleasant. The hobbit in the Shire. The Shire, he's talking about, you know, places like Hertfordshire, like the Shire is around

• 1:39:50Speaker 01

  in the Greater London area, Oxfordshire type of thing. And, but the reason they've been able to enjoy the Shire is because hard men have protected them from the dangers of the world. And, but, but since they have no, or very, really, almost no exposure to the dangers of the world, they don't realize that they're there. Until one day, you know, a thousand people show up in your village of 500, out of nowhere, and rape, and start raping the kids. This has now happened, God knows how many times in Britain.

• 1:40:33Joe Rogan?

  And the crazy thing is-

• 1:40:35Speaker 01

  Literally raping, because it's right, like, some 10-year-old got raped in Ireland like last week.

• 1:40:39Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, there's literal rape gangs-

• 1:40:41Speaker 01

  They snatched some kid.

• 1:40:42Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:40:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:40:44Joe Rogan?

  And if you criticize it, you can get arrested. And that's where it gets insane. It's like, how are they not protecting people?

• 1:40:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, you literally criticize it, like, the, I think it was the Prime Minister of Ireland actually, you know, posted on X, because, because after the, some, I think some illegal migrant snatched a 10-year-old girl, who was like going to school or something, and violently raped a 10-year-old girl. And there was a, you know, the people were very upset about this, and they protested. Prime Minister of Ireland, instead of saying, "Yeah, we really shouldn't be importing violent rapists into our country," he criticized the protesters instead and didn't mention that. That the reason they were protesting was because a 10-year-old girl from their small town got raped.

• 1:41:32Joe Rogan?

  So, here's the question. Why are they supporting this kind of mass immigration? And what, is this, is there a plan involved in all this? Is this incompetence? Is this ignoring the fact that they don't have a handle on it, so they're trying to silence dissent? Like, what is happening?

• 1:41:59Joe Rogan?

  Because if you want to destroy civilization, if you want to destroy Western civilization.

• 1:42:04Speaker 01

  Which George Soros seems to want to do. And, you know, there's just, so the, there's a guy, I think, who, I don't know if he's been on your show. You know Godzad?

• 1:42:19Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:42:19Speaker 01

  Has he been on the show?

• 1:42:20Joe Rogan?

  Good friend of mine, yeah.

• 1:42:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, he's great.

• 1:42:21Joe Rogan?

  He's been on multiple times.

• 1:42:22Speaker 01

  Oh, great, that's all, he's awesome.

• 1:42:24Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:42:24Speaker 01

  So, you know, the way, he's a good, good way to describe it, which is suicidal empathy.

• 1:42:30Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 1:42:31Speaker 01

  So, is that you prey upon people's empathy. So like, well, like you feel sorry for something, for some group, and then like, well, and, and that empathy is to such a degree that it is suicidal to, to your country, your culture. And, and that's, that suicidal empathy, because I don't think we should have empathy, but, but we should have, that empathy should extend to the victims, not, not just the criminals. We should have empathy for the people that they prey upon.

• 1:43:11Speaker 01

  But that suicidal empathy is also responsible for why somebody, you know, arrested 47 times for, for violent offenses, gets released and then goes and murders somebody in the US. That, that's, you see, you see that same phenomenon, phenomenon playing out everywhere, where the, the suicidal empathy is to such a degree that we're actually allowing our women to get raped and our children to get killed.

• 1:43:38Joe Rogan?

  But it just doesn't seem like that would be anything that any rational society would go along with. That's what makes me so confused. It's like you're importing massive numbers of people that come from some really dark places of the world.

• 1:43:54Speaker 01

  Well, there's no vetting, is the issue.

• 1:43:56Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:43:56Speaker 01

  It's like, it's like, if, like... If there's no vetting, like, people are just coming through, like, well, what's to stop someone who just committed murder in some other country from coming to the United States or coming to Britain and just continuing their career of rape and murder? Unless you've done, unless there's some due diligence to say, like, well, who is this person, watch their track record, if you haven't confirmed that they have a track record of being, you know, honest and not being a homicidal maniac, then any homicidal maniac can just come across the water, and let's not say everyone who comes across the

• 1:44:39Speaker 01

  water is a homicidal maniac, but if you're not, if you don't have a vetting process to confirm that you're not letting in people who will do some serious violence, you will get people who do serious violence sometimes coming through.

• 1:44:54Joe Rogan?

  Well, especially if you don't punish them, and if you don't deport them. And if you are just like, well, but what is the purpose of allowing all those people into the country? It can't be, I wouldn't imagine that anyone in their society supports this.

• 1:45:07Speaker 01

  Well, let me explain, so, because you mentioned, for example, how much, say, Hillary and Obama have changed their tune from prior speeches where they were hot-nosed about not letting in anyone who's a criminal into the country, you know, having secure borders, all that stuff. So why did they change their tune? The reason is that they discovered that those people vote for them. That's why they want the open borders.

• 1:45:38Joe Rogan?

  Because if you let people in, they know the Democrats let them in, they'll vote for Democrats.

• 1:45:43Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:45:44Joe Rogan?

  If you allow them to vote.

• 1:45:45Speaker 01

  Which, which they're actively trying, they turn a blind eye to illegal voting.

• 1:45:50Joe Rogan?

  Well, California literally doesn't allow you to show your license.

• 1:45:54Speaker 01

  California and New York have made it illegal to show your photo ID when voting. Thus, effectively, they've made it impossible to prove fraud, impossible. They've essentially legalized fraudulent voting in California and New York, and many other parts of the country.

• 1:46:12Joe Rogan?

  There's no rational explanation that I've ever seen anyone give as to why that would be the policy. Unless you were trying to just allow people to vote illegally, because there's no other reason. If you need a driver's license, or you need an ID for everything else, including just recently to prove that you were vaccinated.

• 1:46:29Speaker 01

  The same people who are demanding that you have a vaccine passport are the same ones saying you need no ID to vote. Same people.

• 1:46:39Joe Rogan?

  Right, but like-

• 1:46:42Speaker 01

  So it's obviously hypocritical and inconsistent.

• 1:46:44Joe Rogan?

  So you really think it's just to get more voters?

• 1:46:47Speaker 01

  If you want to understand behavior, you have to look at the incentives. So, once, you know, the Democratic Party in the US, on the left, in Europe, realized that if you have open borders, and you provide a ton of government handouts, which creates a massive financial incentive for people from other countries to come to your country, and you don't prosecute them for crime, they're going to be beholden to you, and they will vote for you. And that's why Obama and Hillary went from being against open borders to being in favor

• 1:47:32Speaker 01

  of open borders. That's the reason. In order to import voters, so they can win elections. And the problem is that that has a negative runaway effect. So if they get away with that, it is a winning strategy. If they are allowed to get away with it, they will import enough voters to get supermajority voting, and then there is no turning back.

• 1:47:59Joe Rogan?

  We talked about this before the election, and then, you know, you literally pointed towards the camera, you faced the camera and said that if you do not vote now, you might not ever be able to do it again. Because it'll be futile. It'll be overrun.

• 1:48:12Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:48:13Joe Rogan?

  They'll keep the borders open for another four years, and then their objective will be achieved.

• 1:48:17Speaker 01

  Correct. If Trump had lost, there would never have been another real election again. Because Trump is actually enforcing the border. Now, you can point to situations where there's been, you know-

• 1:48:37Speaker 01

  You know, immigration enforcement has been overzealous because they're not going to be perfect. There'll be cases where they've been overzealous in expelling illegals. So, but if you say that the standard must be perfection for expelling illegals, then you will not get any expulsion because perfection is impossible. So...

• 1:49:02Joe Rogan?

  And you've probably got millions of people that are here that are trying to be here under some asylum pretense, right?

• 1:49:12Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:49:12Joe Rogan?

  Like you could just come from a war-torn part of the world.

• 1:49:15Speaker 01

  No, they changed the definition of asylum to be an economic asylum.

• 1:49:20Joe Rogan?

  Which is everybody.

• 1:49:21Speaker 01

  Which is everybody.

• 1:49:22Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:49:23Speaker 01

  So...

• 1:49:23Joe Rogan?

  It's the lowest bar to prove.

• 1:49:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, asylum is supposed to mean that if you go back to your country, you'll get killed. You know, that's what we mean by asylum, what it's supposed to mean. They changed the definition of asylum to be you will have a decreased standard of living, which is obviously not real asylum. And you can test the absurdity of this by the fact that people who are asylum seekers go on vacation to the country that they're seeking asylum from.

• 1:49:54Speaker 01

  You know, that doesn't make any sense.

• 1:49:56Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it doesn't have to.

• 1:50:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, but when you understand the incentives, then you understand the behavior. So, once the left realized that illegals will vote for them if they allow, if they have open borders and combine that with government handouts.

• 1:50:20Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:50:20Speaker 01

  To create a massive incentive, they're basically using US and European taxpayer dollars to provide a financial incentive to bring in as many illegals as possible to vote them into a permanent power and to create a one-party state. And I invite anyone who's listening to this, just do any research, and the more you dig into it, the more it will become obvious that what I'm saying is absolutely true.

• 1:50:52Joe Rogan?

  Well, they were busing people to swing states. It's clear that they were trying to do something. And then you had Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi, who are actively talking about the need to bring in people, to make them citizens, because we're in population collapse.

• 1:51:06Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:51:07Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:51:08Speaker 01

  No, it's that meme.

• 1:51:09Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:51:10Speaker 01

  Where so many times where they start off by saying, "It's not true, it's a right-wing conspiracy theorist."

• 1:51:17Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:51:18Speaker 01

  Then it starts, then it's like, I think the next step is, "Well, it might be true." And then it's like, "Okay, it is true."

• 1:51:30Joe Rogan?

  But here's why it's good.

• 1:51:31Speaker 01

  And then the final step is, "It's true, and here's why it's good."

• 1:51:34Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:51:35Speaker 01

  And it's like, "But wait a second, you started off saying it's untrue and it's a right-wing conspiracy theorist, now you're saying it not only is it true, but it's a good thing, and we must do more of it."

• 1:51:43Joe Rogan?

  Well, this is the thing about Medicaid and Social Security and people getting Social Security numbers, you know, that were illegal.

• 1:51:50Speaker 01

  It's massive fraud.

• 1:51:51Joe Rogan?

  It's massive fraud, and it's real, and they denied it forever. And now we're finding out this is part of the reason why there's this government shutdown that's going on right now.

• 1:51:59Speaker 01

  Yes, the entire basis for the government shutdown is that the Trump administration, correctly, does not want to send massive amounts of, like, hundreds of billions of dollars to fund illegal immigrants in the blue states, or in all the states, really. And so, and Democrats want to keep the money spigot going to incent illegal immigrants to come into the US who will vote for them. That's the crux of the battle.

• 1:52:32Joe Rogan?

  So, they want to stop this, so what's going on right now is, they have been funding these people, they've been giving them EBT cards, they've been giving them Medicaid, and they've been even housing them.

• 1:52:46Speaker 01

  And more than that, just like, they're

• 1:52:50Speaker 01

  Like they were taking hotels, like four and five star hotels, like the Roosevelt Hotel being the classic example, was, they were sending, I think sixty million dollars a year to the Roosevelt Hotel, to, which all it did was, was house illegals. It used to be a nice hotel, I mean, it still is a nice hotel. But, and, and all around the country, this was happening.

• 1:53:14Joe Rogan?

  And all tax dollars.

• 1:53:15Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:53:16Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:53:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, and the Trump administration cut off funding, for example, to, to the, to the Roosevelt Hotel and these other hotels, saying like, we, it's, US tax dollars should not be paid, be sent to have luxury hotels for illegal immigrants that American citizens can't even afford. Which obviously is, that's, that's insane. That's what was happening. They were also giving out like debit cards with ten thousand dollars. So it's not just about medical care. The Democrats mentioned the medical care because they're trying to prey on people's empathy as much as possible, and then they imagine, oh, wow, somebody has a desperately

• 1:54:00Speaker 01

  needed medical procedure, and shouldn't we maybe do, you know, take care of them in that regard? But they, what they do is they divert the Medicaid funds and turn it into a slush fund for the, for the states that goes well beyond emergency medical care. And New York and California would be bankrupt without, without the massive fraudulent federal payments that go to those states to pay for illegals, to, to, to create a massive financial incentive for, for illegals.

• 1:54:30Joe Rogan?

  How would they be bankrupt because of that?

• 1:54:32Speaker 01

  They wouldn't be able to balance their state budgets, and they can't issue currency like the Federal Reserve can.

• 1:54:37Joe Rogan?

  And so that their ability to balance budgets is dependent upon illegals getting funding?

• 1:54:44Speaker 01

  The scam level here is, is so staggering.

• 1:54:52Speaker 01

  So there are hundreds of billions of dollars of transfer payments from the federal government to the states. Those transfer payments, the states self-report what those transfer payment numbers should be. So California and New York and Illinois lie like crazy and say that these are all legitimate payments. Well, these days, I think they're even admitting that they literally want hundreds of billions of dollars for illegals. But for a while, they're trying to deny it. So you get these transfer payments for every government program you can possibly think

• 1:55:34Speaker 01

  of, and these are self-reported by the state. And at least historically, there was no enforcement of California, New York, Illinois, and other states when they would lie. There was no actual enforcement to say like, hey, you're lying, these payments are fraudulent. Now, under the Trump administration, the Trump administration does not want to send hundreds of billions of dollars of fraudulent payments to the states. And the reason you have this standoff is because if the hundreds of billions of dollars to create a financial incentive to have this giant magnet to attract illegals from every

• 1:56:18Speaker 01

  part of Earth to the states, if that is turned off, the illegals will leave because they're no longer being paid to come to the United States and stay here.

• 1:56:30Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:56:32Speaker 01

  And then they will lose a lot of voters. The Democratic Party will lose a lot of voters.

• 1:56:37Joe Rogan?

  And they would have a very difficult job, if this is kicked out, of reintroducing it into a new bill.

• 1:56:43Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:56:44Joe Rogan?

  Especially once things start normalizing.

• 1:56:47Speaker 01

  Yes. So in a nutshell...

• 1:56:51Speaker 01

  The Democratic Party wants to destroy democracy by importing voters. And the Republican Party disagrees with that.

• 1:57:00Joe Rogan?

  And the ruse is that if you don't accept what they're doing, then you're a threat to democracy.

• 1:57:05Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:57:07Joe Rogan?

  As they try to destroy democracy.

• 1:57:09Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:57:10Joe Rogan?

  By importing voters.

• 1:57:11Speaker 01

  That is literally what they're doing.

• 1:57:12Joe Rogan?

  And incentivizing people to only vote for them and overwhelming the system.

• 1:57:17Speaker 01

  Yes. And by the way, it's a strategy that if allowed to work, would work. And in fact, has worked. California's supermajority, Democrat.

• 1:57:26Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:57:28Speaker 01

  And there's so much gerrymandering that occurs, it's crazy. So...

• 1:57:33Joe Rogan?

  I'm sure you're paying attention to this Proposition 50 thing.

• 1:57:36Speaker 01

  I know.

• 1:57:37Joe Rogan?

  That's the thing in California where they're trying to redo districts.

• 1:57:41Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, yeah. Because, I mean, California's already gerrymandered like crazy.

• 1:57:46Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:57:47Speaker 01

  They want to gerrymander it even more. And I mean...

• 1:57:50Joe Rogan?

  Because it keeps moving further and further right. Like, if you look at the map of California, each voting cycle, more and more people are waking up and going, "What the fuck? And we need to do something to fix this. The only option available, other than the policies that you guys have always done, is go right." And so a lot of people have been, air quotes, "red-pilled."

• 1:58:10Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:58:11Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:58:11Speaker 01

  And then here's another thing that is very important, in fact, that is actually not disputed by either side, which is that when we do the census in the United States, the census, the way the census works for apportionment of congressional seats and Electoral College votes for the president is by a number of persons in a state, not a number of citizens.

• 1:58:34Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:58:34Speaker 01

  It's a number of people. So you could literally be a tourist, and you will count.

• 1:58:40Joe Rogan?

  Now, how do they do the census when they do that? Do they, is it, do they ask people? Do they knock on doors? Do they have them fill out forms? Like, what?

• 1:58:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think they mail out census forms and knock on doors. But the way the law reads right now, and is that all, if you are a human with a pulse...

• 1:59:01Speaker 01

  Then you count in the census for allocating congressional seats and presidential votes.

• 1:59:10Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:59:11Speaker 01

  So you so.

• 1:59:13Joe Rogan?

  Electoral college, congressional seats, everything.

• 1:59:16Speaker 01

  It doesn't matter whether you hear legally illegally and if you're a human with a pulse, you count for congressional apportionment. So that means that the more people, the more illegals that California and New York can can import by the time the census happens in 2030, the more congressional seats they will have and the more electoral, the more presidential electoral college votes they will have. So they're trying to get as many illegals in as possible ahead of the census. And because all, all human beings, even tourists, count for the census.

• 1:59:57Speaker 01

  And then if you combine that with gerrymandering of districts in New York and California, ladies point out with this proposition where they're trying to increase the amount of gerrymandering that occurs in California, the biggest state in the country. So you get, so if the census then would award more congressional seats to California because of a vast number of illegals and New York and Illinois, so they'd get more congressional seats, they'll get more presidential electoral college votes that would get them the House, a majority in the House, and they would get to decide who is president, based, literally based on illegals.

• 2:00:40Speaker 01

  This isn't, these are not disputed facts by either party.

• 2:00:45Speaker 01

  I want to emphasize that that's in care.

• 2:00:47Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, this is not a conspiracy.

• 2:00:48Speaker 01

  These are not disputed facts by either party. It's not a, these are just, this is just the way the law works. It's, it is a, you know, like, I don't think the law should work that way. I think it should, the apportionment should be proportioned to citizens.

• 2:01:06Joe Rogan?

  But isn't that a problem with how the Constitution is written?

• 2:01:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:01:09Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. They can't really change that.

• 2:01:13Speaker 01

  I'm not sure if it's constitutional or, but it is the way the law is written. I'm not sure if it's in the constitution or not in this way, but, but it is, that is the way the law is written.

• 2:01:23Joe Rogan?

  So it is an incentive, but it's an incentive that would be removed with something simple that makes sense to everybody, that only the people that should count are people that are official US citizens.

• 2:01:34Speaker 01

  Yes, the way it should work is that only US citizens should count in the census for purposes of determining voting power.

• 2:01:42Joe Rogan?

  Because people that aren't legal can't vote, supposedly.

• 2:01:46Speaker 01

  They're not supposed to be voting, but, but they do. But even, even if, even besides that, like I said, I just can't emphasize this enough because this is a very important concept for people to understand, is that the law, the law as it stands counts all humans with a pulse in, in, in a state for deciding how many House of Representatives votes and how many presidential Electoral College votes a state gets. So the incentive therefore is to, for California, New York, Illinois, to maximize the number of illegals, so they get, so they get, so that they take House seats away from red states,

• 2:02:29Speaker 01

  assign them to California, New York, Illinois, and so forth. Then, then you combine that with extreme gerrymandering in, in California, New York, Illinois, and whatnot, so that, that basically you can't even elect any Republicans, and then they get control of the presidency, control of the House, then they keep doing that strategy and, and cement a supermajority. That is what they're trying to do.

• 2:02:54Joe Rogan?

  So that would essentially turn the entire country into California?

• 2:02:57Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:02:58Joe Rogan?

  Where you have differing opinions, but it doesn't matter, because one party is always in control?

• 2:03:02Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:03:05Joe Rogan?

  When you first started digging into this, when you first started, before you even accepted this role of running Doge and being a part of all that, did you have any idea that it was this fucked up?

• 2:03:17Speaker 01

  I did, yeah. I mean, I sort of-

• 2:03:20Joe Rogan?

  When did you start knowing?

• 2:03:23Speaker 01

  I guess about like, well, about two years ago.

• 2:03:26Joe Rogan?

  Isn't that crazy?

• 2:03:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, relatively recently, you know?

• 2:03:28Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:03:29Speaker 01

  I started having, well, I started like basically having a bad feeling about three years ago, which is why, which was, which is when, why I felt it was like critical to acquire Twitter and have a maximally truth-seeking platform, not one that suppresses the truth. And like, it was more, it was more like, I'm like, I'm not sure what's going on, but I have a, I have a bad feeling about what's going on. And then the more I dug into it, the more I was like, holy shit, we got a real problem here. America's gonna fall. So-

• 2:04:02Joe Rogan?

  Without anyone knowing it had fallen. That's, that would be the problem. It could have fallen and been unreparable without anyone really being aware-

• 2:04:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:04:11Joe Rogan?

  -of what had happened. Especially if you didn't buy Twitter.

• 2:04:14Speaker 01

  Yes. That's, that's, look, buying Twitter was a huge pain in the ass and made me a, a, a pincushion of attacks. Like dab, dab, dab, dab, dab.

• 2:04:25Joe Rogan?

  Everybody loved you before that.

• 2:04:26Speaker 01

  Well, some people still love you.

• 2:04:27Joe Rogan?

  A lot of people loved you. A lot of lefties loved you.

• 2:04:30Speaker 01

  I, I was a hero of the left, it's fair to say.

• 2:04:33Joe Rogan?

  It was a thing. If you drove a Tesla, it showed that you were environmentally conscious-

• 2:04:37Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:04:37Joe Rogan?

  -and you were on the right side.

• 2:04:39Speaker 01

  Uh, yeah.

• 2:04:43Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, I'm still the same human. I didn't like have a brain transplant between, you know, since, in like three years ago, you know?

• 2:04:50Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's my favorite bumper sticker that people put on Teslas now. I bought this before Elon went crazy. I took a picture of one the other day.

• 2:04:57Speaker 01

  Oh, you found this?

• 2:04:58Joe Rogan?

  I was behind somebody. Oh, yeah, I've seen, I've seen three or four of them. People that have these bumper stickers on their car that says, "I bought this before Elon went crazy." Because when people were vandalizing Teslas-

• 2:05:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:05:11Joe Rogan?

  The most unhinged-

• 2:05:12Speaker 01

  There was an organized campaign to literally burn down Teslas and, and we had one of our dealerships got shot up with a gun, like they fired bullets into the Tesla dealership. They were burning down cars.

• 2:05:26Speaker 01

  It was crazy.

• 2:05:28Speaker 01

  So, but the bumper sticker should read, there should be an addendum to the bumper sticker. It's like, I bought this car before Elon turned crazy. Actually, now I realize he's not crazy and I've seen the light.

• 2:05:44Joe Rogan?

  That'll take some time. That'll take some time. People don't want to admit that they've been tricked.

• 2:05:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, that old saying where it's like, it's really easy to fool somebody, but it's almost impossible to convince someone that they were fooled.

• 2:05:56Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. It's much easier to fool them than to convince them they've been fooled. People cling to their ideas.

• 2:06:03Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:06:03Joe Rogan?

  Especially if they've like publicly stated these things. They get very embarrassed of being foolish.

• 2:06:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, people, most time they double down. And.

• 2:06:14Joe Rogan?

  And they find echo chambers.

• 2:06:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, but there's, you know, the thing is that, like, and I've seen more and more people who were convinced of the sort of woke ideology see the light.

• 2:06:29Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:06:30Speaker 01

  So, not everyone, but it's more and more are seeing the light. And it tends to happen like when something happens that really, you know, directly affects you.

• 2:06:39Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:06:40Speaker 01

  You know, like, there was a friend of mine who was living in, in the San Francisco Bay Area and they tried to trans his daughter.

• 2:06:52Speaker 01

  Did like to the point where the, the school like sent, sent the police to his house to take his daughter away from him.

• 2:07:00Speaker 01

  Now, now that's going to radicalize you. Well, that's going to break, that's going to shake you out of your belief structure.

• 2:07:08Joe Rogan?

  So, it was an activist at the school that was trying to do this?

• 2:07:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, the school and the, and the state of California conspired to turn his daughter against him and make her take life-altering drugs that would have sterilized her and irreversible.

• 2:07:26Joe Rogan?

  And how old was she?

• 2:07:28Speaker 01

  I think 14, something like that.

• 2:07:32Speaker 01

  So, and he managed to talk the police out of taking his daughter away from him that day. And that, that night, he got on a plane to Texas.

• 2:07:41Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 2:07:42Speaker 01

  And, you know, a year after just being in a, in a school in like greater Austin area, she, she went, she went back to normal, meaning like it, it wasn't real.

• 2:07:57Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:08:00Joe Rogan?

  Well, people are being much more open to that now. I mean, Wall Street Journal yesterday had that opinion piece that this whole trans thing, there's a lot of evidence it's a social contagion.

• 2:08:11Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 2:08:12Joe Rogan?

  And Colin Wright wrote that. And then he's getting death threats now, of course, and on Blue Sky, there's people talking about exterminating him, which is one thing that you are allowed to say on Blue Sky, apparently. You're, you're allowed to say horrible things about people, say possibly truthful things about this whole social contagion. Cause that's what, when you get nine kids that are in a friend group and they all decide to turn trans together.

• 2:08:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:08:36Joe Rogan?

  Something's wrong.

• 2:08:37Speaker 01

  Something's wrong.

• 2:08:38Joe Rogan?

  That's not statistically feasible.

• 2:08:41Speaker 01

  You can convince kids to do anything. You can convince kids to be a suicide bomber.

• 2:08:45Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:08:46Speaker 01

  So.

• 2:08:46Joe Rogan?

  Which is why they do with, in, in some countries, why they choose children to do that.

• 2:08:51Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:08:51Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:08:52Speaker 01

  You can train kids to be suicide bombers. And if you can train kids to be suicide bombers, you can convince them of anything.

• 2:08:57Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, especially with enough positive enforcement.

• 2:08:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:09:00Joe Rogan?

  And cultural enforcement. And you, and the idea that, that that's not the case.

• 2:09:04Speaker 01

  The kids, kids are, kids are malleable.

• 2:09:07Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 2:09:08Speaker 01

  The minds of youth are easily corrupted.

• 2:09:10Joe Rogan?

  You're also seeing a lot of pushback from gay and lesbian people that are saying like, hey, if someone did this to me.

• 2:09:15Speaker 01

  So, so including me. So, yeah, exactly.

• 2:09:17Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:09:18Speaker 01

  The LGBT, you know, it's like, wait a second. Why are we being included all the time in this situation?

• 2:09:22Joe Rogan?

  Exactly, exactly. When, especially when, you know, like my friend Tim Dillon's talked about this, is like, it's really homophobic because you're taking these gay kids and you're, you're telling them like, hey, you're not gay, you're actually a girl.

• 2:09:35Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:09:36Joe Rogan?

  And, you know, hey, go make it so that you can never have an orgasm again.

• 2:09:40Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:09:40Joe Rogan?

  And you'll be happy. Like.

• 2:09:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:09:42Joe Rogan?

  Fucking crazy.

• 2:09:43Speaker 01

  Like permanent mutilation, permanent castration of, of kids is like, I, I think we should look, look at, at anyone who permanently castrates a kid as like right up there with Yosef Mangler.

• 2:09:57Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:09:58Speaker 01

  I mean, they're, they're mutilating children.

• 2:10:00Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah, and it's thought of as being kind. And the thing is, would you rather have a live daughter or a dead son?

• 2:10:09Speaker 01

  That's the line they use.

• 2:10:11Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, which is not supported by any data.

• 2:10:14Speaker 01

  No, in fact, the probability of suicide increases.

• 2:10:17Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:10:17Speaker 01

  This is important maybe for the audience to know. The probability of suicide increases if you're trans a kid, not decreases. By some accounts, it triples. So that is an evil lie.

• 2:10:30Joe Rogan?

  And it's a lie that is supposedly compassionate. Imagine you've twisted reality to the point where confusing a child that's not even legally allowed to get a fucking tattoo.

• 2:10:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:10:44Joe Rogan?

  Right, because you think that you could make a mistake with a tattoo.

• 2:10:46Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 2:10:47Joe Rogan?

  A totally removable thing.

• 2:10:48Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:10:48Joe Rogan?

  If I wanted to tomorrow, I could go to a doctor and they could laser off every tattoo that I have on me.

• 2:10:53Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:10:54Joe Rogan?

  Okay, no harm, no foul.

• 2:10:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:10:56Joe Rogan?

  But you get sterilized, like that's it forever, forever.

• 2:10:59Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:11:00Joe Rogan?

  They'll castrate you, you no longer have testicles.

• 2:11:02Speaker 01

  Yes, that's not coming back.

• 2:11:04Joe Rogan?

  You have no penis, you have a hole where your penis used to be.

• 2:11:06Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:11:06Joe Rogan?

  And this is compassionate, and this is preventing you from killing yourself.

• 2:11:09Speaker 01

  Actually, a lot of kids die in with these sex change operations. They die, the number of deaths on the operating table, people don't hear about those. A lot of the kids, because it's, we don't really actually have the technology to make this work. So a bunch of the times, the kids just die in the sex change operations.

• 2:11:30Joe Rogan?

  Jesus Christ.

• 2:11:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's demented, which it should be viewed as like, you know, like, like evil Nazi doctor stuff.

• 2:11:40Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's why it's so.

• 2:11:41Speaker 01

  Like real Nazi, not the bullshit fake Nazi stuff.

• 2:11:44Joe Rogan?

  Crazy that even pushing back against something that seems like fundamentally, logically, very easy to argue, the old Twitter would ban you forever.

• 2:11:54Speaker 01

  Uh, yes.

• 2:11:58Joe Rogan?

  That's how crazy a social contagion can get. When it completely defies logic, victimizes children,

• 2:12:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:12:04Joe Rogan?

  Does something that makes no sense, does not supported by data. All connected to this ideology that trans is good. We got to save trans kids, protect trans kids.

• 2:12:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, and what I want to emphasize is that the save trans kids thing is a lie.

• 2:12:20Speaker 01

  If you castrate kids and trans them, their probability of suicide increases. It does not decrease. It substantially increases. The studies have done that I've seen, the risk of suicide triples if you trans kids.

• 2:12:40Speaker 01

  So you're not saving them, you're killing them. Moreover, during the sex change operation, there are many deaths that occur during the sex change operation.

• 2:12:50Joe Rogan?

  Jesus Christ.

• 2:12:53Joe Rogan?

  It's just crazy that this is a real issue.

• 2:12:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's a nightmare fever dream and people are finally waking up from it.

• 2:13:03Joe Rogan?

  Now, when you started getting into the Doge stuff and started finding how much money is being shuffled around and moved around to NGOs and how much money is involved and just totally untraceable funds, like

• 2:13:21Joe Rogan?

  this is again, something like two years plus ago, you weren't aware of it all.

• 2:13:27Speaker 01

  No, I was aware of it. I just didn't realize how big it was. It was just how much waste and forward there is in the government is truly vast. In fact, the government didn't even know, nor did they care.

• 2:13:45Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy.

• 2:13:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:13:48Joe Rogan?

  And

• 2:13:49Speaker 01

  I mean, just like, some of the very basic stuff that Doge did will have lasting effects. And some of these things, like, they're so elementary, you can't believe it. So, the Doge team got the, you know, the, the, most of the main payments computers to require the congressional appropriation code. So when a payment is made, you have to actually enter the congressional appropriation code. That used to be optional, and often would be just left blank. So, the money would just go out, but it wasn't even tied to a congressional appropriation. Then, the also, Doge team also made the comment field for the payment mandatory.

• 2:14:31Speaker 01

  So you have to say something. We're not saying that what is said, like, you can say anything. You, you, your cat could run across the keyboard. You could go Querty A S D F. But you have to say something above nothing. Because what we found was that there were tens of billions, maybe hundreds of billions of dollars that were zombie payments. So, they're like, somebody had approved a payment, somebody in the government approved a payment, and some recurring payment, and they retired, or died, or changed jobs, and no one turned the money off. So, the money would just keep going out. And, and it's a pretty rare-

• 2:15:10Joe Rogan?

  And go where?

• 2:15:11Speaker 01

  To, to, a, a company or an individual. And it's a pretty rare company or individual who will complain that they're getting money that they should not get. And a bunch of the money was just going to the, were transfer payments to the states.

• 2:15:25Joe Rogan?

  So, these are automatic payments?

• 2:15:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, just automatic payments.

• 2:15:27Joe Rogan?

  No accounting for them at all?

• 2:15:28Speaker 01

  Imagine, like, it's like, there's an automatic debit of your credit card, and you don't, you never look at the statement.

• 2:15:34Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:15:36Speaker 01

  So, it's just money going out. Of course, I call them zombie payments. That, they might have been, they might have been legitimate at one point, but the person who approved that recurring payment changed jobs, died, retired, or whatever, and no one ever turned the money off. And my guess is that's probably at least a hundred billion dollars a year, or maybe two hundred.

• 2:16:03Joe Rogan?

  And going where?

• 2:16:05Speaker 01

  To, to-

• 2:16:09Speaker 01

  I mean, there are millions of these payments, so it's, I mean-

• 2:16:14Joe Rogan?

  Millions?

• 2:16:15Speaker 01

  Yes, yes.

• 2:16:16Joe Rogan?

  Millions of payments that are going to who knows where?

• 2:16:20Speaker 01

  Yes, so in a bunch of cases, there are fraud rings that operate, professional fraud rings that operate to exploit the system. They figure out some security hole in the system and they just do professional fraud.

• 2:16:36Speaker 01

  And, you know, that's where we found, for example, people who were, you know, 300 years old in the Social Security Administration database.

• 2:16:46Joe Rogan?

  Now, I thought that this was a mistake of not registering their deaths, that people were born like a long time ago and it had defaulted to like a certain number, and so that after time, those people were still in the system. It was just an error of the way the accounting was done.

• 2:17:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, so, that's not true. So, there's, or at least, one of two things must be true.

• 2:17:15Speaker 01

  There's a typo, or some mistake in the computer, or it's fraudulent. But we don't have any 300-year-old vampires living in America.

• 2:17:25Joe Rogan?

  Allegedly.

• 2:17:25Speaker 01

  Allegedly.

• 2:17:28Speaker 01

  And, or, and we don't have people, in some cases, who are receiving payments who are born in the future.

• 2:17:35Joe Rogan?

  Born in the future?

• 2:17:36Speaker 01

  Born in the future.

• 2:17:37Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 2:17:37Speaker 01

  Yes. There were, the people receiving payments whose birthdate was like in 2100 and something.

• 2:17:46Joe Rogan?

  Okay, so there's a-

• 2:17:47Speaker 01

  Like, next century.

• 2:17:48Joe Rogan?

  Is there a task force-

• 2:17:49Speaker 01

  We know, we know that one of two things must be true. That, that, that either there's a mistake in the computer, or it's fraud.

• 2:17:58Speaker 01

  But if you have someone's birthdate that's either in the future, or where they are older than the oldest living American, because the oldest living American is 114 years old, so if they're more than 114 years old, there is either a mistake and someone should, should call them and say, "I think we have your birthday wrong, because it says you were born in 17, you know, 86." And, you know, that was before, you know-

• 2:18:26Speaker 01

  You know, before there was really an America, you know, it was like, you know, it was kind of early. You know, we're still fighting England type of thing.

• 2:18:37Speaker 01

  You know. It's like, this person either needs to be in the Guinness Book of World Records, or they're not alive.

• 2:18:44Joe Rogan?

  But still, at the end of the day, money is going towards that account that's connected to this person that is either nonexistent or dead.

• 2:18:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, so there was like, I think, something like, I don't know, 20 million people in the Social Security Administration database that could not possibly be alive. If their birthday is, like, based on their birthday, they could not possibly be alive.

• 2:19:10Joe Rogan?

  And then, to be clear, 20 million people that were receiving funds?

• 2:19:15Speaker 01

  A bunch of, most of them were not receiving funds. Some of them were receiving funds, most were not receiving funds. But so let me tell you how the scam works. It's a bank shot. So, the Social Security Administration database is used as the source of truth by all the other databases that the government uses. So even if they stop the payments on the Social Security Administration database, like unemployment insurance, small business administration, student loans, all check the Social Security Administration database to say, is this a legitimate, alive person? And the Social Security database will say, yes, this person is still alive, even though they're 200 years old. But forget to mention that they're 200 years old.

• 2:19:58Speaker 01

  It just says, it just returns, when the computer is queries, it says, yes, this person is alive. And so then they're able to exploit the entire rest of the government ecosystem. So fake, then you get fake student loans, then you get fake unemployment insurance, then you get fake medical payments.

• 2:20:16Joe Rogan?

  And this doesn't have to be tied to an individual where there's an address where you can check on this person?

• 2:20:22Speaker 01

  No, if you did, if you just did any check at all, you would stop this.

• 2:20:29Speaker 01

  So that's, that, that, that's, so.

• 2:20:32Joe Rogan?

  And how much money do you think is being?

• 2:20:33Speaker 01

  Any check, like, anything at all that would stop, would stop the fraud, like, any effort at all? Um, yeah.

• 2:20:41Joe Rogan?

  So there's multiple layers.

• 2:20:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:20:43Joe Rogan?

  The social security number verifies that this is a real person.

• 2:20:46Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:20:46Joe Rogan?

  And then the other systems check up on-

• 2:20:48Speaker 01

  They can exploit every other government payment, and every other government payment system, everything, like, small, small business administration, student loans, Medicaid, Medicare, every other government payment, of which there are many, there are actually hundreds of government payment systems, can all be exploited so long as social security database says this person is alive. That's the nature of the scam. It's a bank shot. So then, then the rebuttal from the Dems is like, oh, well, the vast majority of the people who are marked as alive in the social security administration weren't receiving social security administration payments. That is true. What they forgot to mention is they're getting fraudulent payments from every other government program.

• 2:21:29Speaker 01

  And that's why the, the Dems were so opposed to turning off, to declaring someone dead who was dead, because it would stop the entire other, all the other fraud from happening.

• 2:21:39Joe Rogan?

  And so, but all this, is it trackable? Like, all this other fraud?

• 2:21:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:21:43Joe Rogan?

  If they wanted to, they could chase it all down?

• 2:21:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's not even hard.

• 2:21:48Joe Rogan?

  And yet they're opposing chasing it all down?

• 2:21:50Speaker 01

  They're, they're opposing chasing it all down because it would, it turns off the money magnet for the illegals.

• 2:21:57Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 2:22:00Speaker 01

  Because it's very logical to, like, like, I'm saying the most common tense things possible. If someone's got a birthday in social security, that is an impossible birthday, meaning they are older than the oldest living American, or were born in the future, then you should call them and say, excuse me, we seem to have your birthday wrong, because it says that you're 200 years old. That's all you need to do.

• 2:22:30Joe Rogan?

  And then you would remove them from the social security database and make that number no longer available for all those other government payments.

• 2:22:37Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 2:22:38Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 2:22:41Joe Rogan?

  And how much money are we talking?

• 2:22:43Speaker 01

  It's hundreds and hundreds of billions of dollars.

• 2:22:46Joe Rogan?

  And this is all traceable, like you could hunt all this down?

• 2:22:50Speaker 01

  Like, you don't need to be Sherlock Holmes here, is what I'm saying. We don't need to call Sherlock Holmes for this one.

• 2:22:55Joe Rogan?

  Is this part of the?

• 2:22:56Speaker 01

  We just need to call the person and say, excuse me, we seem to have the, like, we must have your birthday wrong because it says you're 200 years old or were born in the future, so could you tell us what your birthday is?

• 2:23:12Speaker 01

  That's what we need to do. It's that simple.

• 2:23:15Joe Rogan?

  But the, all these other government payments that are available, that are connected to this social security number, it seems like if you just chased that all down, you would find the widespread fraud. You would find where it's going.

• 2:23:30Speaker 01

  Yes, but the root of the problem is the social security administration database because the social security number in the United States is used as a de facto national ID number.

• 2:23:44Speaker 01

  You know, that's why, like, the bank always asks for your social, like, you know, any financial institution will ask for your social security number.

• 2:23:56Joe Rogan?

  This is, it sounds so insane that this isn't chased down.

• 2:24:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, I agree.

• 2:24:01Joe Rogan?

  That, I mean, that in and of itself is, that's such mishandling.

• 2:24:06Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:24:10Speaker 01

  It's mind-blowing. So, yeah, it's crazy.

• 2:24:14Joe Rogan?

  Well, you were very reluctant last time you were here to talk about the extent of some of the fraud because you're like, they could kill me because this is kind of...

• 2:24:24Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, what I'm saying is that, like, if you create, if, like...

• 2:24:34Speaker 01

  Like, to be pragmatic and realistic, you actually can't manage to zero fraud. Yet you can manage to low fraud number, but not to zero fraud. If you manage to zero fraud, you're going to push so many people over the edge who are receiving fraudulent payments that the number of inbound homicidal maniacs will be really hard to overcome. So I'm actually taking, I think, quite a reasonable position, which is that we should simply reduce the amount of fraud, which I think is not an extremist position. And we should aspire to, you know, have less fraud over time.

• 2:25:14Speaker 01

  Not that we should be ultra draconian and eliminate every last scrap of fraud, which I guess would be nice to have, but like, we don't even need to go that extreme. I'm saying we should just stop the blatant, large-scale, super-obvious fraud. I think that's a reasonable position.

• 2:25:31Joe Rogan?

  It's a very reasonable position.

• 2:25:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:25:33Joe Rogan?

  And so what was the most shocking pushback that you got when you started implementing Doge, when you started investigating into where money was going?

• 2:25:44Speaker 01

  Well, I guess that this was, I should have anticipated this, but while most of the fraudulent government payments to, especially to the NGOs, go to the Democrats, most of it, like, I don't know, for argument's sake, let's say 80%, maybe 90%, 10% to 20% of it does go to Republicans. And so when we turn off funding to a fraudulent NGO, we'd get complaints from whatever the 10% of Republicans who are receiving the money. And they would, you know, they would very loudly complain.

• 2:26:27Speaker 01

  Because the honest answer is the Republicans are partly, they're receiving some of the fraud too. They're getting a vig.

• 2:26:36Joe Rogan?

  Jesus.

• 2:26:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's, I want to be clear, it's not like the Republican Party is some

• 2:26:44Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 2:26:45Speaker 01

  ultra pure paragon of virtue here.

• 2:26:47Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 2:26:48Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 2:26:49Joe Rogan?

  Well, you see that with the congressional insider training. It's across the board.

• 2:26:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:26:54Joe Rogan?

  It's left and right.

• 2:26:56Speaker 01

  I mean, the whole uniparty criticism has some validity to it, you know, there's, so, and it's, like, if you turn off fraudulent payments, it's not like, like I said, it's not like 100% of those payments are going to Democrats. A small percentage were also going to Republicans. Those Republicans complained very loudly.

• 2:27:17Speaker 01

  And, you know, and that's, that's, so there was a lot of pushback on the Republican side when we started cutting some of these funds. And I tried telling them, like, well, you know, 90% of the money is going to your opponents. But they still, even if they're getting 10% of the money-

• 2:27:39Joe Rogan?

  They want their peace.

• 2:27:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, they want their peace.

• 2:27:41Joe Rogan?

  And they've been getting that peace for a long time.

• 2:27:42Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:27:47Joe Rogan?

  Did you think-

• 2:27:48Speaker 01

  This is why, like, you know, politics is like-

• 2:27:49Joe Rogan?

  It's a dirty business.

• 2:27:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, that's like saying, if, like, you know, if you like sausages and respect the law, do not watch either of them being made.

• 2:28:01Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:28:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:28:03Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Wow.

• 2:28:07Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's not even true, because I've made sausage with-

• 2:28:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, it's actually-

• 2:28:10Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's like, it's not that big a deal. You add fat and spices and casing, run it through the machine, not that big a deal.

• 2:28:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:28:20Speaker 01

  But, yeah, I mean, I think the stuff I'm saying here is not, like, if you stand back and think about it for a second, like, oh, yeah, that makes sense, you know? The, it's not like, it's not like one political party's gonna be-

• 2:28:38Speaker 01

  You know, pure devil or pure angel, there's, you know, I think there's, there's, there's much more corruption on the Democrat's side, but it's not, there's not, there's still some corruption on the Republican's side.

• 2:28:49Joe Rogan?

  How did it happen that the majority of the corruption wound up being on the Democrat's side?

• 2:28:54Speaker 01

  Well, because the, the, the transfer payments, especially to illegals, are very much on the Democrat's side.

• 2:29:01Joe Rogan?

  So that's the root of it all, is the illegal situation?

• 2:29:04Speaker 01

  Yes, I mean, this-

• 2:29:05Joe Rogan?

  Or a focal point.

• 2:29:07Speaker 01

  Yes, it's also, like, it's, it's, it would also be accurate to say that while, obviously, not everyone who's a Democrat is a criminal, almost everyone who is a criminal is a Democrat. Because, because the Democrats are the soft on crime party, so if you're a criminal, who are you going to vote for?

• 2:29:30Joe Rogan?

  Right, right.

• 2:29:31Speaker 01

  The soft on crime party.

• 2:29:33Joe Rogan?

  Did you think you were going to be able to get more done than you were?

• 2:29:39Speaker 01

  We did get a lot done.

• 2:29:42Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:29:43Speaker 01

  And Doge is still, still, still happening, by the way. The, the, the Doge is still underway, there is still, there is still, there's still wasting fraud being, being cut by, by the Doge team, so it hasn't stopped.

• 2:29:56Joe Rogan?

  It's less publicized.

• 2:29:58Speaker 01

  It's less publicized, and they don't have, like, a clear person to attack anymore.

• 2:30:04Joe Rogan?

  Well, it seems like once you stepped away-

• 2:30:06Speaker 01

  They're, they're, they're basically, they're, they're applying immense pressure to me to, to, to stop it, so then I'm like, the best thing for me is to just, you know, cut out of this, and in any case, as a special government employee, I could only be there for like 120 days anyway, something like that, so whatever the law says, so I could, I, I was necessarily, could only be there for four months as a special government employee, so, but, yeah, I mean, I mean, you turn off the money spigot to, to fraudsters, they get very upset, to say the least, and, but my, like, my death threat level went ballistic, you know, it was like, like a rocket going in orbit.

• 2:30:49Speaker 01

  Yeah. So, but now that, now that I'm running DC, that, that, I guess they don't really have a person to attack anymore.

• 2:30:59Joe Rogan?

  Well, the rhetoric about you has calmed down significantly.

• 2:31:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:31:03Joe Rogan?

  It was disturbing. It was disturbing to watch. It was like, this is crazy. And to watch these politicians engage in it and all these people just like framing you as this monster. I was like, this is so weird. Like, this is what happens when you uncover fraud.

• 2:31:17Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:31:17Joe Rogan?

  The whole machine turns on you. And if it wasn't for a person like you, who owns a platform and has an enormous amount of money, like, it could have destroyed you.

• 2:31:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:31:27Joe Rogan?

  And that was the goal.

• 2:31:28Speaker 01

  The goal was to destroy me, absolutely.

• 2:31:30Joe Rogan?

  Because you were getting in the way.

• 2:31:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:31:32Joe Rogan?

  Of this amazing graft.

• 2:31:34Speaker 01

  The, the, this gigantic fraud machine.

• 2:31:36Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:31:38Speaker 01

  Like I said, I think, I think those teams have done a lot of good work.

• 2:31:44Speaker 01

  You know, in, in terms of fraud and waste prevented, my guess is it's, you know, probably on the order of two or 300 billion a year. So it's pretty good.

• 2:31:55Joe Rogan?

  What do you think could have been done if you just had like full reign and total cooperation? How much do you think you could have saved?

• 2:32:02Speaker 01

  I mean, what level of, of power are we assuming here?

• 2:32:05Joe Rogan?

  Godlike.

• 2:32:06Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, probably cut the federal budget in half.

• 2:32:10Speaker 01

  And get more done.

• 2:32:13Joe Rogan?

  That is so crazy. It is so crazy.

• 2:32:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, get more done and federal budget in half.

• 2:32:19Joe Rogan?

  It's that widespread.

• 2:32:21Speaker 01

  Well, I mean, a whole bunch of government departments simply shouldn't exist, in my opinion. They, they, you know.

• 2:32:28Joe Rogan?

  Like examples?

• 2:32:30Speaker 01

  Well, the Department of, Department of Education, which was created recently, like, under Jimmy Carter.

• 2:32:38Speaker 01

  The, our educational results have gone downhill ever since it was created. So if you, if you create a department and the result of creating that department is a massive decline in educational results, and it's Department of Education, you're better off not having it. Because we're, literally, we're, we did better before there was one than after.

• 2:32:58Joe Rogan?

  When you let the states run it.

• 2:32:59Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:33:00Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:33:01Speaker 01

  Because at least the states can compete with one another. So, but the problem is like you hear like cutting Department of Education, our kids need education. Yeah, they do, but, but this is a new department that didn't even exist, you know, until the late seventies. And ever since that department was created, the results, education results have declined. And so, why would you have an institution continue that has made education worse? It doesn't make sense.

• 2:33:33Joe Rogan?

  They killed it though, right?

• 2:33:34Speaker 01

  No, they're still, unfortunately.

• 2:33:36Joe Rogan?

  But they were trying to kill it.

• 2:33:37Speaker 01

  It has been substantially reduced.

• 2:33:39Joe Rogan?

  Okay. What other organizations? What other departments?

• 2:33:44Speaker 01

  Well, I mean, I'm a small government guy. So, you know, when, you know, when the country was created, we just, we just had the Department of State, Department of War, you know, and, and sort of, sort of the Department of Justice, we had an Attorney General, and Treasury Department. I don't know why you need more than that.

• 2:34:10Joe Rogan?

  So what other departments specifically do you think are just completely ineffective?

• 2:34:16Speaker 01

  Well, I mean, here it's like a question, it's a sort of philosophical question of how much government do you think there should be?

• 2:34:23Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:34:24Speaker 01

  In my opinion, there should be the least amount of government.

• 2:34:29Joe Rogan?

  I've heard the most bizarre argument against this is that you're cutting jobs and you're gonna leave people jobless. I'm like, but their jobs are useless.

• 2:34:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, paying people to do nothing doesn't make sense.

• 2:34:41Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:34:42Speaker 01

  Like, there's a, like, a great, it's a story about, like, Milton Friedman, who is awesome. What, generally, whatever Milton Friedman said is, you know, people should do that thing. I'm not sure if it's applicable or not, but, like, someone complained to him, like, he observed, I think, people that were, like, digging ditches with, you know, with, with shovels. And, and he said, well, like, allegedly, Friedman said, well, I think, I think you should use, you know, excavating equipment instead of shovels, and you could get it done with far fewer people. And then, and then someone said, but then we're gonna

• 2:35:25Speaker 01

  lose a lot of jobs. Well, then Friedman says, well, in that case, why don't you have them use teaspoons?

• 2:35:34Speaker 01

  Just dig ditches with teaspoons. Think of all the jobs you'll create. I mean.

• 2:35:43Speaker 01

  It's bullshit. Basically, you just want people to work on things that are productive. You want people to work on building things, on building, you know, providing products and services that people find valuable, like, you know, making food, being, you know, being a farmer or a plumber or electrician or just anyone who's a builder or providing useful services. And that's what you want people to be doing, not fake government jobs that don't add any value or may subtract value.

• 2:36:21Speaker 01

  But there's also like, you know, to illustrate the absurdity of also how is the economy measured? Like, the way economists measure the economy is nonsensical because they'll measure any job, no matter, even if that job is a dumb job that has no point and is even counterproductive. So like, so like, the joke is like, there's two economists going on a hike in the woods.

• 2:36:45Speaker 01

  They come across a pile of shit and one economist says to the other, "I'll pay you $100 to eat that shit." The economist eats the shit, gets the $100, they keep walking. Then the other economist, then they come across another pile of shit and the other economist says, "Now, I'll pay you $100 to eat the pile of shit."

• 2:37:08Speaker 01

  So he pays the other economist $100 for the pile of shit. Then they, then the way it's, they said, "Wait a second.

• 2:37:17Speaker 01

  We both just ate a pile of shit and we're no, and we're no, we don't have any more extra money. Like, we both, you just gave the $100 back to me and we both ate a pile of shit. This doesn't make any sense." And they said, "No, no, but think of the economy because that's $200 of, in the economy." That, that, that, basically, they measure eating, eating shit would count as a, as a, as a job.

• 2:37:49Speaker 01

  This is to illustrate the absurdity of economics.

• 2:37:55Joe Rogan?

  One of the things you said when you stepped away. One of the things you said when you stepped away is that you're kind of done and that it's unfixable.

• 2:38:07Joe Rogan?

  Or under its current form, the way people are approaching it.

• 2:38:14Speaker 01

  You can make it directionally better, but ultimately you can't fully fix the system.

• 2:38:22Speaker 01

  So, it would be accurate to say that even, unless you go like super draconian, like, you know, Genghis Khan level on cutting waste and fraud, which you can't really do in a democratic country,

• 2:38:44Speaker 01

  an aspirationally democratic country, then there's no way to solve the debt crisis. So we've got national debt, that's just insane, where the debt payments, the interest payments on the debt exceed our entire military budget.

• 2:38:59Speaker 01

  I mean, that was one of the wake-up calls for me. I was like, wait a second. The interest on a national debt is bigger than the entire military budget and growing?

• 2:39:12Speaker 01

  This is crazy.

• 2:39:19Speaker 01

  So even if you implement all these savings, you're only delaying the day of reckoning for when America becomes, goes bankrupt. So, unless you go full Genghis Khan, which you can't really do.

• 2:39:37Speaker 01

  So I came to the conclusion that the only way to get us out of the debt crisis and to prevent America from going bankrupt is AI and robotics. So, like, we need to grow the economy at a rate that allows us to pay off our debt.

• 2:40:03Speaker 01

  And I guess people just generally don't appreciate the degree to which.

• 2:40:09Speaker 01

  You know, the government overspending is a problem. But even like the social security website, this is under the Biden administration. On the website, it would say like, based on current demographic trends and how much money social security is bringing in versus how many social security recipients there are because we have an aging population, relatively speaking, the average age is increasing. Social security will not be able to maintain its full payments, I think, by 2032. So social security will have to stop, start reducing the amount of money that's been paid to people in about seven years.

• 2:40:50Joe Rogan?

  And so the only way to fix that, robotics, manufacturing, raise GDP?

• 2:40:58Speaker 01

  You've got to basically massively increase the economic output, which is, and the only way to do that is AI and robotics. So basically, we're going bankrupt without AI and robotics, even with a bunch of savings. The savings, like reducing Wason Ford can give us a longer runway, but it cannot ultimately pay off our national debt.

• 2:41:23Joe Rogan?

  So what do you think the solution is to the jobs that are going to be lost because of AI and robotics? The jobs due to automation, the jobs due to, no longer do we need human beings to do these jobs because AI is doing them? Do you think it's going to be some sort of a universal basic income thing? Do you think there's going to be some other kind of solution that has to be implemented? Because a lot of people are going to be out of work, right?

• 2:41:49Speaker 01

  I think there will be actually a high demand for jobs, but not necessarily the same jobs. So, I mean, this is actually, this process has been happening throughout modern history. I mean, there used to be, like doing calculations.

• 2:42:12Speaker 01

  Manually with like a pencil and paper, it used to be a job. So they used to have like buildings full of people called computers where the banks would like. All you do all day is is you do calculations because they didn't have computers. They didn't have digital, didn't have digital computers that people do. Yeah, well, it was just people would just like add and subtract stuff on a piece of paper and. And that would be how banks would do, you know, financial processing.

• 2:42:39Joe Rogan?

  And you'd have to literally go over their equations to make sure the books are balanced.

• 2:42:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, and most times it's just simple math, like, you know, the. Like in a world before computers, how did you calculate, how did you do transactions? You had to do them by hand.

• 2:42:55Speaker 01

  So then when computers were introduced, the job of doing.

• 2:43:00Speaker 01

  You know, bank calculations no longer existed, so people had to go do something else.

• 2:43:07Speaker 01

  And that's what's going to happen, that's what is happening at an accelerated rate.

• 2:43:13Speaker 01

  Do your AI and then robotics.

• 2:43:14Joe Rogan?

  That's the issue, though, right, the accelerated rate, because it's going to be.

• 2:43:17Speaker 01

  It's the accelerator, it's just happening, like I said, AI is the supersonic tsunami.

• 2:43:25Speaker 01

  So that's what I call it, supersonic tsunami.

• 2:43:30Speaker 01

  So.

• 2:43:31Joe Rogan?

  It's like, what other jobs will be available that aren't available now because of AI?

• 2:43:38Speaker 01

  Well, AI will, is really still digital. Ultimately, AI can improve the productivity of humans who who. Build things with their hands or do things with their hands, like plum, you know, literally.

• 2:43:53Speaker 01

  Welding, electrical work, plumbing, anything that's physically moving atoms.

• 2:44:00Speaker 01

  Like cooking food or, you know, farming or like, like anything that's that's physical. Those jobs will exist for a much longer time. But anything that is digital, which is like just someone at a computer doing something. AI is going to take over those jobs like lightning.

• 2:44:21Joe Rogan?

  Coding, anything along those lines, yeah.

• 2:44:24Speaker 01

  It's gonna take over those jobs like lightning. Just like, just like digital computers took over the job of people doing manual calculations. But, but much faster.

• 2:44:36Joe Rogan?

  So what happens to all those people? Like, what kind of numbers are we talking about? You're gonna lose most drivers, right? Commercial drivers, you're gonna have automated vehicles, AI-controlled systems, just like there's certain ports in China, and I think in Singapore, where everything's completely automated.

• 2:44:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, mostly, yeah, yeah.

• 2:44:55Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, so you're gonna lose a lot of those jobs, longshoremen jobs, trucking, commercial drivers.

• 2:45:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, we actually do have a shortage of truck drivers, but there's, there's actually.

• 2:45:06Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's why California's hired so many illegals to do it. Have you seen those numbers?

• 2:45:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, the problem is like when you, when people don't know how to drive a semi truck, which is actually a hard thing to do, then they, they crash and kill people.

• 2:45:20Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:45:21Speaker 01

  A friend of mine's wife was killed by an illegal driving a truck, and she was just out biking. And there was an illegal who didn't know how to drive the truck or something, I mean, and he ran, ran her over.

• 2:45:37Speaker 01

  So, I mean, the thing is like, for something, like, you, you can't, you can't let people drive, you know, sort of an 80,000 pound semi, if, if they don't know how to do it.

• 2:45:54Speaker 01

  But in California, they're just letting people do it.

• 2:45:56Joe Rogan?

  Because they need people to do it.

• 2:45:58Speaker 01

  Well, they also need, they want the votes and that kind of thing, but, but, but yeah, like, cars are,

• 2:46:07Speaker 01

  cars are gonna be autonomous. But there's, there's just so many desk, desk jobs where really what people are doing is they're processing email, or they're answering the phone.

• 2:46:18Speaker 01

  And, and just anything that is, that, that isn't moving atoms, like anything that is not physically, like doing physical work, that will obviously be the first thing, but those jobs will be and are being eliminated by, by AI at a very rapid pace.

• 2:46:36Speaker 01

  And ultimately, working will be optional because you'll have robots plus AI. And we'll have, in a benign scenario, universal high income, not just universal basic income, universal high income, meaning anyone can have any products or services that they want.

• 2:46:58Joe Rogan?

  So you-

• 2:46:58Speaker 01

  But there will be a lot of trauma and disruption along the way.

• 2:47:03Joe Rogan?

  So you anticipate a basic income from, that the economy will boost to such an extent that a high income would be available to almost everybody, so we'd essentially eliminate poverty?

• 2:47:18Speaker 01

  In the benign scenario, yes. So like-

• 2:47:22Joe Rogan?

  There's multiple scenarios.

• 2:47:23Speaker 01

  There are multiple scenarios. There's a lot of ways this movie can end. Like, the reason I'm so concerned about AI safety is that, like, one of the possibilities is the Terminator scenario. It's not, it's not 0%. So that's why it's like, I'm like, really banging the drum on AI needs to be maximally truth-seeking. Like, don't make, don't force AI to believe a lie, like that, for example, the founding fathers were actually a group of diverse women, or that misgendering is worth a nuclear war. Because if that's the case, and then you get the robots and the AI becomes omnipotent, it can enforce that outcome.

• 2:48:07Speaker 01

  And then, unless you're a divorced woman, you're, you're out of the picture, so we're toast.

• 2:48:15Joe Rogan?

  So that's-

• 2:48:16Speaker 01

  Or you might wake up as a divorced woman one day.

• 2:48:19Joe Rogan?

  They might force you.

• 2:48:21Speaker 01

  The AI has adjusted the picture, and we are now divorced women.

• 2:48:25Joe Rogan?

  Everyone's a diverse woman. So that would be, that's the worst possible situation. So what would be the steps that we would have to take in order to implement the benign solution? Where it's universal high income, like, best-case scenario, this is the path forward to universal high income for essentially every single citizen, that the, the economy gets boosted by AI and robotics to such an extent that no one ever has to work again? And what about meaning for those people, which is, which gets really weird?

• 2:49:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:49:04Speaker 01

  I don't know how to answer the question about meaning.

• 2:49:07Joe Rogan?

  That's an individual problem, right? But it's gonna be an individual problem for millions of people.

• 2:49:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:49:18Speaker 01

  Well, I mean, I guess I've like fought against saying like, you know, I've been a voice saying like, hey, we need to slow down AI, we need to slow down all these things. And we need to, you know, not have a crazy AI race. I've been saying that for a long time, for 20, 20 plus years. But then I came to realize that really there's two choices here. Either be a spectator or a participant. And if I'm a spectator, I can't really influence the direction of AI. But if I'm a participant, I can try to influence the direction of AI and have a maximally truth-seeking AI with good values that loves humanity.

• 2:50:01Speaker 01

  And that's what we're trying to create with Grok and XAI. And, you know, the research is, I think, bearing this out. Like I said, when they compared like, how do AIs value the weight of a human life? Grok was the only one, the only one of the AIs that weighted human life equally. And didn't say like, a white guy's worth 1/20 of a black woman's life. Literally, that's what the calculation they came up with. So I'm like, this is very alarming. We should, we've got to watch this stuff.

• 2:50:35Joe Rogan?

  So this is one of the things that has to happen in order to reach this benign solution?

• 2:50:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:50:45Speaker 01

  I just keep-

• 2:50:45Joe Rogan?

  Best movie ending. Yeah.

• 2:50:48Speaker 01

  You want a curious, truth-seeking AI. And I think a curious, truth-seeking AI will want to foster humanity. Because we're much more interesting than a bunch of rocks. Like you said, I love Mars, you know? But Mars is kind of boring. It's just a bunch of red rocks. There's some cool stuff. It's got a tall mountain. It's got, you know, it's got the biggest ravine and the tallest mountain.

• 2:51:18Speaker 01

  But there's no, there's no, there's no animals or plants or, and there's no people.

• 2:51:25Speaker 01

  And, you know, so humanity is just much more interesting if you're a curious, truth-seeking AI than not humanity. It's just much more interesting. I mean, like, as, as humans, we could go, for example, and, and eliminate all chimps. If we said, if we put our minds to it, we could say, we could go out and we could annihilate all chimps and all gorillas, but, but we don't. There has been encroachment on their environment, but we, we actually try to preserve the, the chimp and gorilla habitats. And, and I think in a good scenario, AI would do the same with, with humans.

• 2:52:06Speaker 01

  It would actually foster hu- uh, human civilization and care about human happiness. So this is, um, this is the thing to, to try to achieve, I think.

• 2:52:20Joe Rogan?

  But what is the, what does the landscape look like if you have Grok competing with OpenAI, competing with all these different, like, wh- how does it work? Like, wh- what, what, if you have AIs that have been captured by ideologies that are side by side, competing with Grok? Like, how do we? So this is one of the reasons why you felt like it's important to not just be a, a, an observer, but participate and then have Grok be more successful and more potent than these other applications?

• 2:52:56Speaker 01

  Yes, as long as there's at least one AI that is maximally truth-seeking, curious, and, um, you know, and for example, weighs all, you know, human lives equally, um, does not favor one race or gender, then, um, then, then that, that, that, and, and people are able to look at, look at, you know, Grok at XAI and compare that and say, hey, wait a second, why are all these other AIs being basically sexist and racist?

• 2:53:26Speaker 01

  And then that causes some embarrassment for the other AIs and then they they they fix that, you know, they they improve, they tend to improve, just in the same way that acquiring Twitter and allowing the truth to be told and and not suppressing the truth forced the other social media companies to be more truthful. But in in the same way, having Grok be a maximally truth-seeking, curious AI is will force the other AI companies to be also be more truth-seeking and fair.

• 2:54:04Joe Rogan?

  And the funniest thing is, even though like the socialists and the Marxists are in opposition to a lot of your ideas, but if this gets implemented and you really can achieve universal high income, that's the greatest socialist solution of all time. Like, literally, no one will have to work.

• 2:54:22Speaker 01

  Correct. But like I said, so so there is a benign scenario here, which I think probably people will be happy with if as long as we we achieve it, which is sustainable abundance, which is if if if everyone can have every like like if you ask people like, what's the future that you want? And I think a future where we haven't destroyed nature, like you can still, we have the national parks, we have the Amazon rainforest, it's still it's still there, we haven't paved, we haven't paved the paved the rainforest, like the natural beauty is still there, but but people have nonetheless, everyone has abundance, everyone has excellent medical care, everyone has whatever goods and services they want.

• 2:55:07Joe Rogan?

  And we would essentially just.

• 2:55:08Speaker 01

  It's kind of sounds like heaven, basically.

• 2:55:10Joe Rogan?

  It is like the ideal socialist utopia. And this idea that the only thing you should be doing with your time is working in order to pay your bills and feed yourself, sounds kind of archaic, considering the kind of technology that's at play.

• 2:55:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:55:27Joe Rogan?

  Like, a world where that's not your concern at all anymore, everybody has money for food, everybody has abundance, everybody has electronics in their home, everybody essentially has a high income, now you can kind of do whatever you want, and your day can now be. Exploring your interests, doing things that you actually enjoy doing. Your purpose just has to shift. Instead of, you know, I'm a hard worker and this is what I do and that's how I, that's how I define myself. Now you can fucking golf all day. You know, you could, whatever it is that you enjoy doing can now be your main pursuit.

• 2:56:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:56:09Joe Rogan?

  Well, that sounds crazy good.

• 2:56:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's, that's, that's, that's the benign scenario that we should be aiming for.

• 2:56:15Joe Rogan?

  Ending to the movie is actually pretty good.

• 2:56:19Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:56:22Speaker 01

  Like, I think there's, there is still this question of meaning, of like, making sure people don't uh, lose meaning, you know, like, um, so hopefully they can find meaning in ways that are not, that's not derived from their work.

• 2:56:35Joe Rogan?

  And purpose, purpose for things that you, you know, find things that you do that you enjoy. But there's a lot of people that are independently wealthy that spend most of their time doing something they enjoy.

• 2:56:47Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:56:48Joe Rogan?

  And that could be the majority of people.

• 2:56:51Speaker 01

  Pretty much everyone.

• 2:56:51Joe Rogan?

  But we'd have to rewire how people approach life.

• 2:56:54Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:56:55Joe Rogan?

  Which seems to be like acceptable, because you're not asking them to be enslaved. You're exactly asking them the opposite. Like, no longer be burdened by financial worries. Now, go do what you like.

• 2:57:11Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:57:11Joe Rogan?

  Go fucking test pizza. Do whatever you want.

• 2:57:15Speaker 01

  Um, pretty much.

• 2:57:18Speaker 01

  So that's, uh, that's, that's, that's the, that's probably the best case outcome.

• 2:57:23Joe Rogan?

  That sounds like the best case outcome, period, for the future. If you're looking at like how much people have struggled just to feed themselves all throughout history. Food, shelter, safety. If all of that stuff can be fixed, like, how much would you solve a lot of the crime? If there was a universal high income? Just think of that. Like, how much of crime is financially motivated? You know, the greater percentage of people that are committing crimes live in poor disenfranchised neighborhoods. So if there's no such thing anymore, if you really can achieve universal high income.

• 2:58:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:58:01Joe Rogan?

  This is, it sounds like a utopian.

• 2:58:04Speaker 01

  Yes. Um, I think some people may commit crime because they like committing crime. Just some, some amount of that is they just enjoy.

• 2:58:12Joe Rogan?

  There's a lot of wild people out there.

• 2:58:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:58:14Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and obviously they've become forty years old, living a life like that. Now, all of a sudden, universal high income is not going to completely stop their instincts.

• 2:58:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, I guess if you want to have, like, say, read a science fiction book or some books that are probably inaccurate or the least inaccurate version of the future, I'd say I'd recommend the Ian Banks books, the Culture Books. It's not actually a series. It's like sci-fi books about the future that are generally called the Culture Books. Ian Banks' Culture Books, it's worth reading those.

• 2:58:50Joe Rogan?

  When did he write these?

• 2:58:51Speaker 01

  He started writing them in the seventies, and I think he, the last one, I think he was, I think it was written just like around, I don't know, maybe twenty ten or something. I'm not sure exactly.

• 2:59:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:59:04Joe Rogan?

  Scottish author, Ian Banks.

• 2:59:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:59:06Joe Rogan?

  From eighty-seven to two thousand twelve.

• 2:59:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:59:09Joe Rogan?

  Interesting.

• 2:59:10Speaker 01

  But he, but like he wrote the, like, his first book, Consider Flevers, I think he started writing that in the seventies.

• 2:59:20Speaker 01

  These books are incredible, by the way.

• 2:59:23Joe Rogan?

  Oh.

• 2:59:23Speaker 01

  Incredible books.

• 2:59:24Joe Rogan?

  Four point six stars on Amazon.

• 2:59:28Joe Rogan?

  Interesting.

• 2:59:29Speaker 01

  So.

• 2:59:32Joe Rogan?

  Well, this gives me hope.

• 2:59:34Speaker 01

  Uh, yeah, yeah.

• 2:59:35Joe Rogan?

  This is the first time I've ever thought about it this way.

• 2:59:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, I mean, if, like, I often ask people, what is the future that you want? And they have to think about it for a second, because, you know, they're usually tied up in whatever their daily struggles are, but, but you say, what is the future that you want?

• 2:59:57Speaker 01

  And, and generally, sustainable abundance. Or they're supposed to say, what about a future where there's sustainable abundance? It's like, oh, yeah, that's a pretty good future.

• 3:00:06Speaker 01

  So.

• 3:00:10Speaker 01

  You know, if, if, and, and that, that future is attainable with AI and robotics. But, but, you know, it's, it's, like I said, there's, not every path is a good path. There's this, it's, but I think if we, if we push it in the direction of maximally truth-seeking and curious, then I think AI will want to take, to, to take care of humanity and foster, foster humanity. Because we're interesting. And if it hasn't been programmed to think that, like, all straight white males should die.

• 3:00:53Speaker 01

  Which Gemini was basically programmed to do, at least first. You know, they seem to have fixed that, or hopefully fixed it.

• 3:01:01Joe Rogan?

  But don't you think culturally, like, oh, we're getting away from that mindset? And that people are realizing how preposterous that all is?

• 3:01:10Speaker 01

  We are getting away from it. So, we are getting, at, at least it knows, AI mostly knows to hide things. But like, like I said, there is that, I, I think I still have that as, or I had that as my, like, pinned, pinned post on X, which was like, hey, wait a second, guys, we still have, every AI except Grok is saying that, basically, straight white males should die. And this is a problem and we should fix it. You know, but simply me saying that is like, tends to generally result in, you know, them, like, ooh, that is kind of bad, maybe we should just, we should not have all straight white males die.

• 3:01:52Speaker 01

  I think they would say also, all, all, all straight Asian males should also die as well. They'd like, they don't like, like, generally, generally the AI and the, and the media, which, which, back in the day, and the, the, the media was, you know, racist against black people and sexist against women, back in the day. Now, now it is racist against white people and Asians and, and sexist against men. So, they're just like being racist and sexist, I think, they just want to change the target. So, uh, but, but really, they just shouldn't be racist and sexist at all.

• 3:02:36Speaker 01

  You know.

• 3:02:36Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, ideally, that would be nice.

• 3:02:38Speaker 01

  That would be nice.

• 3:02:39Joe Rogan?

  And it's kind of crazy that we were kind of moving in that general direction until around 2012. And then everything ramped up online and, and everybody was accused of being a Nazi and everybody was transphobic and racist and sexist and homophobic and everything got exaggerated to the point where it was this wild witch hunt. Where everyone was a colombo looking for racism.

• 3:03:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. Um, well, well, but, but, but they, they were openly anti-white and often openly anti-Asian.

• 3:03:07Joe Rogan?

  And then this new sentiment that you cannot be racist against white people. Cause racism is power and influence and just, okay, no, it's not.

• 3:03:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, racism is, is racism in the absolute. So, um, you know, and, and it just needs to be consistency. So if it's okay to have, uh, let's say, uh, black or Asian or Indian or a pride, it should be okay to have white pride too.

• 3:03:35Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 3:03:37Speaker 01

  So that's just a, that's just a consistency question.

• 3:03:42Speaker 01

  So, uh, you know, um, if, if it's okay to be proud of one religion, it should be okay to be proud of, I guess, all religions, provided they're, that, that they're, they're not like.

• 3:03:53Joe Rogan?

  Oppressive.

• 3:03:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, or, or don't like, as long as part of that religion is not like exterminating, uh, people who are not in that religion.

• 3:03:59Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 3:04:01Speaker 01

  So, uh, it's really just like a consistency bias.

• 3:04:08Speaker 01

  It, or, or just like, uh, ensuring consistency to eliminate, uh, bias. So if it is possible to be racist against, uh, one race, it is possible to racist against any race.

• 3:04:25Speaker 01

  Um, so.

• 3:04:27Joe Rogan?

  Of course, logically.

• 3:04:28Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 3:04:29Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and arguing against that is that's when you know you're captured.

• 3:04:31Speaker 01

  It's a logical inconsistency that makes AIs go insane.

• 3:04:36Joe Rogan?

  And people.

• 3:04:37Speaker 01

  And people go insane, yes.

• 3:04:38Joe Rogan?

  Oh.

• 3:04:39Speaker 01

  Um, but like the, like, you can't simultaneously say, um, that, uh, that there's systemic racist oppression, but also that racists don't exist.

• 3:04:54Speaker 01

  That, that race, race is a social construct. Like, which is it, you know? You also can't say that, um, you know, anyone who steps foot in America is, is automatically an American, except for the people that originally came here.

• 3:05:11Joe Rogan?

  Exactly, exactly. Except for the colonizers.

• 3:05:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, except for the evil colonizers who came here.

• 3:05:17Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 3:05:18Speaker 01

  So which one is it? Like, if you, if as soon as you step foot in a place, you are that, you are just as American as everyone else, then, um, that would have applied, if you apply that consistently, then the original white settlers were also just as American as everyone else.

• 3:05:35Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, logically.

• 3:05:36Speaker 01

  Logically.

• 3:05:38Joe Rogan?

  Um, one more thing that I have to talk to you about before you leave is the rescuing of the people from the space station, which, uh, we talked about, you were planning it the last time you were here.

• 3:05:52Joe Rogan?

  Um, the fact, the, the lack of coverage that that got in mainstream media was one of the most shocking things that I think of.

• 3:05:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, they totally memory hold that thing.

• 3:06:01Joe Rogan?

  Wild.

• 3:06:02Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 3:06:03Joe Rogan?

  Because if it wasn't few.

• 3:06:04Speaker 01

  It's like it didn't exist.

• 3:06:05Joe Rogan?

  Those people would be dead. They'd be stuck up there.

• 3:06:08Speaker 01

  Well, they'd, they'd probably still be alive, but they'd, they'd, they'd be having bone density issues, uh, because of prolonged exposure to zero gravity.

• 3:06:15Joe Rogan?

  Well, they were already up there for like eight months, right?

• 3:06:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:06:18Joe Rogan?

  Like, which is insanely long time. It takes forever to recover just from that.

• 3:06:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, they're only supposed to be at the space station for three to six months, maximum. So.

• 3:06:28Joe Rogan?

  One of the things you told me that was so crazy was that you could have gotten them sooner, but.

• 3:06:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, but for political reasons, uh, they didn't, they did not want, uh, SpaceX or me to be associated with, um, returning the astronauts before the election.

• 3:06:44Joe Rogan?

  That is so wild that that's a fact.

• 3:06:48Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, yeah.

• 3:06:49Joe Rogan?

  First of all, that even-

• 3:06:49Speaker 01

  We absolutely could have done it, um, so.

• 3:06:51Joe Rogan?

  But even though you did do it, and you did it after the election, it received almost no media coverage anyway.

• 3:06:57Speaker 01

  Yes, because nothing good can, the, the, the media, which is essentially a far-left propag- the legacy mainstream media is a far-left propaganda machine. Um, and so anything, any story that is positive about someone who is not a part of the sort of far-left tribe will not, uh, get any coverage. So I, I could save a busload of orphans and, and it, it wouldn't get a, a single news story.

• 3:07:23Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's, it really is nuts. It wa- it was nuts to watch because even though it was discussed on podcasts, and it was discussed on X, and it was discussed on social media, it's still, it was a blip in the news cycle. It was very quick. It was in and out. And because it was a successful launch, and you did rescue those people, and nobody got hurt, and there was nothing really to, there was no blood to talk about.

• 3:07:48Speaker 01

  Right.

• 3:07:48Joe Rogan?

  Just fucking in and out.

• 3:07:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Well, and, and as you saw firsthand with the Starship, uh, launch, like Starship is, um, you know, by, you know, at least by some, some would consider it to be like the most amazing, uh, you know, engineering project that's happening on Earth right now, outside of like, you know, maybe AI, AI and robotics. But, but certainly in terms of spectacle to see, it is, uh, the most spectacular thing that is happening on Earth right now, uh, is, is the Starship launch program, which anyone can go and see if they just go to South Texas and just, they can just rent a hotel room, low cost, in, in South Padre Island or in Brownsville, and you can see the launch.

• 3:08:33Speaker 01

  And, and you can drive right, right past the factory because it's on a public highway.

• 3:08:38Speaker 01

  But it gets no coverage.

• 3:08:41Speaker 01

  Or what coverage it does get was like, uh, rocket blew up.

• 3:08:44Joe Rogan?

  So, right, yeah. Oh, he's a fuckwit, the rocket blew up, yeah.

• 3:08:47Speaker 01

  Like, the, the, the Starship program is vastly, vastly more capable than the entire Apollo moon, moon program. Vastly more capable. The, the, this is a spaceship that is designed to make life multi-planetary, to carry, uh, millions of people across the heavens to another planet.

• 3:09:11Speaker 01

  The Apollo program could only send astronauts to the moon for a few hours at a time.

• 3:09:20Speaker 01

  Like, they could send two, the entire Apollo program could only send astronauts to visit the moon very briefly, and then, for a few hours, and then depart.

• 3:09:29Speaker 01

  The Starship program could create an entire lunar base with a million people.

• 3:09:37Speaker 01

  The magnitudes are very different magnitudes here.

• 3:09:42Joe Rogan?

  So what was the political resistance, though?

• 3:09:45Speaker 01

  There's basically no coverage of it.

• 3:09:47Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but what I wanted to ask you is like, so what were the conversations leading up to the rescue? Like, when you were like, "I can get them out way quicker"?

• 3:09:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:10:02Speaker 01

  Well, I mean, I raised this a few times, but it was, I was told instructions came from the White House that, you know, that there should be no attempt to rescue before the election.

• 3:10:15Joe Rogan?

  That should be illegal.

• 3:10:18Joe Rogan?

  That really should be a horrendous miscarriage of justice for those poor people that were stuck on that.

• 3:10:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, it is crazy.

• 3:10:28Joe Rogan?

  Have you ever talked to those folks afterwards? Did you have conversations with them?

• 3:10:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, they're not going to say anything political, you know, they're not, like, they're never going to.

• 3:10:37Joe Rogan?

  Did they at least say "thank you"?

• 3:10:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 3:10:39Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's nice.

• 3:10:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, absolutely, so.

• 3:10:43Joe Rogan?

  But the instructions came down from the White House. You cannot rescue them because politically, this is a bad hand of cards.

• 3:10:52Speaker 01

  I mean, they didn't say "because politically it's a bad hand of cards", but they just said they were not interested in any rescue operation before the election.

• 3:11:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, so.

• 3:11:06Joe Rogan?

  What did that feel like?

• 3:11:08Speaker 01

  I wasn't surprised.

• 3:11:10Joe Rogan?

  But it's crazy.

• 3:11:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:11:13Joe Rogan?

  Because Biden could have authorized it and they could have said, the Biden administration is helping bring those people back, throw you a little funding, give you some money to do it. The Biden administration, they funded these people being returned.

• 3:11:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, the Biden administration was not exactly my best friend.

• 3:11:30Joe Rogan?

  That's what I heard.

• 3:11:30Speaker 01

  Especially after I, you know, you know, helped Trump get elected, get elected, which, I mean, some people still think, you know, Trump is like the devil, basically. And, I mean, I think, I think Trump actually is not perfect, but, but he's not evil. Trump is not evil. I spent a lot of time with, with him and he's, I mean, he's a product of his time, but he is not, he's not evil.

• 3:12:04Joe Rogan?

  No, I don't think he's evil either. But if you look at the media coverage.

• 3:12:08Speaker 01

  The media, the media treats him like he's super evil, yeah.

• 3:12:10Joe Rogan?

  It's pretty shocking if you look at the amount of negative coverage. Like, one of the things that I looked at the other day was mainstream media coverage of you, Trump, a bunch of different public figures, and then Mumdani.

• 3:12:25Speaker 01

  It was like 96% negative or something crazy.

• 3:12:27Joe Rogan?

  And then Mumdani, which is like 95% positive.

• 3:12:31Speaker 01

  Right. I mean, Mumdani is, is, is a charismatic swindler.

• 3:12:39Speaker 01

  I, I mean, you gotta hand it to him, like, he, he can light up a stage, but he has just been a swindler his entire life. And, you know, and, and I think.

• 3:12:57Speaker 01

  He's likely to win, he's likely to be mayor of New York City.

• 3:13:02Joe Rogan?

  Very likely.

• 3:13:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, very likely.

• 3:13:04Joe Rogan?

  I think, well, Polymarket has it at what? What is the?

• 3:13:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, that sounds pretty likely.

• 3:13:10Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy.

• 3:13:10Speaker 01

  Like, I'm not sure who the 6% are, you know?

• 3:13:14Speaker 01

  So, so, yeah, so that's.

• 3:13:17Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's also like, who's on the other side? The fucking guardian angel guy with the beret? And Andrew Cuomo, who doesn't even have a party? Like, the Democrats don't even want him. So you have those two options.

• 3:13:32Joe Rogan?

  And then you have the young kids who are like, finally socialism.

• 3:13:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, they, they don't know what they're talking about, obviously. So, you know, like, you just look at this, say, how many boats come from Cuba to Florida? And how many, but, and how many boats? Because, you know, there's like a constant, I always think like, how many boats are accumulating on the shores of Florida coming from Cuba?

• 3:13:57Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 3:14:00Speaker 01

  There's a, there's a whole bunch of free boats that you could, if you want to, go take them back to Cuba, it's pretty close.

• 3:14:07Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 3:14:07Speaker 01

  But for some reason, people don't do that. Why, why, why are the boats only coming in this direction?

• 3:14:15Joe Rogan?

  Well, who is, who are the most rabid capitalists in America? The fucking Cubans.

• 3:14:20Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 3:14:20Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, they're like, we've seen how this story goes.

• 3:14:24Speaker 01

  We do not want, exactly.

• 3:14:25Joe Rogan?

  Fuck off. The Cubans in Miami, they don't want to hear any bullshit. They don't want to hear any socialism bullshit. They're like, no, no, no, we know what this actually is. This isn't just some fucking dream.

• 3:14:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's extreme government oppression.

• 3:14:40Joe Rogan?

  That's what it was.

• 3:14:41Speaker 01

  It's a nightmare, and, like, the, like, an obvious way you can tell which, uh, which ideology is, is the bad one, is, um, who has to, which ideology is building a wall to keep people in? And prevent them from escaping.

• 3:14:57Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 3:14:58Speaker 01

  Like, so, East Berlin built the, built the wall, not West Berlin.

• 3:15:04Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 3:15:04Speaker 01

  They built the wall because people were trying to escape from communism to West Berlin. But there wasn't anyone going from West Berlin to East Berlin.

• 3:15:13Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 3:15:14Speaker 01

  That's why the communists had to build a wall to keep people from escaping.

• 3:15:19Joe Rogan?

  They're gonna have to build a wall around New York City?

• 3:15:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's so.

• 3:15:24Joe Rogan?

  So when you say this guy's a charismatic swindler.

• 3:15:26Speaker 01

  That ideology is problematic if that ideology has to bullday wool to keep people in with machine guns.

• 3:15:33Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 3:15:34Speaker 01

  And shoot you if you try to leave.

• 3:15:35Joe Rogan?

  Also, there's no examples of it being successful, ever. We're working out for people. No, there's examples of a bunch of lies, like North Korea, give this land to the state, we'll be in control of food, no one goes hungry. No, now no one can grow food but the government, and we'll tell you exactly what you eat, and you eat very little.

• 3:15:53Speaker 01

  Right.

• 3:15:53Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. When you say Mumdani's a swindler, I know he has a bunch of fake accents that he used to use.

• 3:15:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:15:59Joe Rogan?

  And, you know, but what else has he done that makes him a swindler?

• 3:16:06Speaker 01

  Um, well, I guess if you say, what, I mean, if you say to any audience, whatever that audience wants to hear, instead of what, instead of having a consistent message, I would say that that is a swindly thing to do.

• 3:16:25Speaker 01

  And, uh, yeah.

• 3:16:35Speaker 01

  Yeah. But, but he is charismatic.

• 3:16:38Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, good-looking guy, smart, charismatic.

• 3:16:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:16:42Joe Rogan?

  Great on a microphone.

• 3:16:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 3:16:44Joe Rogan?

  And what the young people want to see, you know? Like this ethnic guy who's young and vibrant and has all these socialist ideas, aligns with them, and, you know, they're a bunch of broke dorks just out of college, like, yay, let's vote for this, and there's a lot of them. And they're, they're activated, they're motivated.

• 3:17:10Speaker 01

  I guess we'll, we'll, we'll see what happens here.

• 3:17:12Joe Rogan?

  What do you think happens if he wins?

• 3:17:16Joe Rogan?

  Because like 1% of New York City is responsible for 50% of their tax base, which is kind of nuts. 50% of the tax revenue comes from 1% of the population, and those are the people that you're scaring off.

• 3:17:35Joe Rogan?

  You know, you lose one half of one percent.

• 3:17:38Speaker 01

  I don't know, I mean, hopefully, the stuff he's said, you know, about government takeovers of, like, that all the stores should be the government, basically.

• 3:17:46Joe Rogan?

  Well, I don't think he said that. I think he said they want to do government supermarkets. Some state-run or city-run supermarkets.

• 3:17:56Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, it just, the government is the DMV at scale. So, you have to say, like, do you want the DMV running your supermarket?

• 3:18:05Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 3:18:06Speaker 01

  Was your last experience at the DMV amazing? And if it wasn't, you probably don't want the government doing things.

• 3:18:12Joe Rogan?

  Imagine if they were responsible for getting you blueberries.

• 3:18:14Speaker 01

  Yeah. It's not gonna be good. I mean, the thing about, you know, communism is it was, it was all breadlines and bad shoes. You know, do you want ugly shoes and breadlines? Because that's what communism gets you.

• 3:18:30Joe Rogan?

  It's gonna be interesting to see what happens and whether or not they snap out of it and over-correct and go to some Rudy Giuliani-type character next. Because it's been a long time since there was any sort of Republican leader there.

• 3:18:45Speaker 01

  And we live in the most interesting of times. Because we face the, you know, simultaneously face civilizational decline and incredible prosperity. And these timelines are interwoven. So, if Mumdani's policies are put into place, especially at scale, it would be a catastrophic decline in living standards, not just for the rich, but for everyone.

• 3:19:32Speaker 01

  As has been the case with every socialist experiment. Or every, yeah, so.

• 3:19:44Speaker 01

  But then, as you pointed out, the irony is that like,

• 3:19:49Speaker 01

  the ultimate capitalist thing of AI and robotics, enabling prosperity for all and abundance of goods and services. Actually, the capitalist implementation of AI and robotics, assuming it goes down the good path,

• 3:20:08Speaker 01

  is actually what results in the communist utopia.

• 3:20:13Speaker 01

  Because fate is an irony maximizer.

• 3:20:15Joe Rogan?

  Right, and an actual socialism of maximum abundance, of high-income people.

• 3:20:23Speaker 01

  Universal high-income.

• 3:20:24Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 3:20:25Speaker 01

  The problem with communism is its universal low-income. It's not that everyone gets elevated, it's that everyone gets oppressed, except for a very small minority of politicians who live a life of luxury. That's what's happening every time it's been done.

• 3:20:43Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 3:20:45Speaker 01

  So.

• 3:20:48Speaker 01

  But then, the

• 3:20:52Speaker 01

  the actual communist utopia, if everyone gets anything they want, will be, will be, if, will be achieved.

• 3:21:00Speaker 01

  If it is achieved, it will be achieved via capitalism. Because fate is an irony maximizer.

• 3:21:09Joe Rogan?

  I feel like we should probably end it on that. Is there anything else?

• 3:21:11Speaker 01

  The most ironic outcome is the most likely, especially if entertaining.

• 3:21:15Joe Rogan?

  Well, everything has been entertaining. As long as the bad things aren't happening to you, it's quite fascinating. And it's never a boring moment.

• 3:21:23Speaker 01

  Yes, so there's, I do have a theory of why.

• 3:21:30Speaker 01

  Like if simulation theory is true, then it is actually very likely that the most interesting outcome is the most likely. Because only the simulations that are interesting will continue. The simulators will stop any simulations that are boring because they're not interesting.

• 3:21:55Joe Rogan?

  But here's the question about the simulation theory. Is the simulation run by anyone?

• 3:21:59Speaker 01

  Yes, it would be run by someone.

• 3:22:01Joe Rogan?

  It would be run by some force.

• 3:22:05Speaker 01

  The program, like in this reality that we live in, we run simulations all the time. Like so when we try to figure out if the rocket's gonna make it, we run thousands, sometimes millions of simulations just to figure out which path is the good path for the rocket. And where can it go wrong? Where can it fail? But when we do these, I'd say at this point, millions of simulations of what can happen with the rocket,

• 3:22:36Speaker 01

  we ignore the ones that are where everything goes right. Because we just care about, we have to address the situations where it goes wrong. So basically, and for AI simulations as well, like all these things, we keep the simulations going that are the most interesting to us.

• 3:23:03Speaker 01

  So if simulation theory is accurate, if it is true, who knows? Then the simulators will only, they will continue to run the simulations that are most interesting. Therefore, from a Darwinian perspective, the only surviving simulations will be the most interesting ones. And in order to avoid getting turned off, the only rule is you must keep it interesting. Or you will, because the boring simulations will be terminated.

• 3:23:37Joe Rogan?

  Are you still completely convinced that this is a simulation?

• 3:23:40Speaker 01

  I didn't say I was completely convinced.

• 3:23:41Joe Rogan?

  Well, you said it's like the odds of it not being are in the billions. But I guess that's not completely because you're saying there's a chance.

• 3:23:51Speaker 01

  What are the odds that we're in base reality?

• 3:23:56Speaker 01

  Well, given that, given that, that we're able to create increasingly sophisticated simulations. So if you think of, say, video games and how video games have gone from very simple video games like Pong with, you know, two rectangles and a square, to video games today being photorealistic, with millions of people playing simultaneously. And all of that has occurred in our lifetime. So if that trend continues, video games will be indistinguishable from reality. The fidelity of the game will be such that you, you don't know if that, what you're seeing is a real video or a fake video.

• 3:24:36Speaker 01

  And like AI-generated videos at this point, like, you can sometimes tell it's an AI-generated video, but often you cannot tell. And soon you will not, really just not be able to tell. So if, if that's happening in our direct observation, then, and we're, we'll create millions, if not billions, of photorealistic simulations of reality.

• 3:25:04Speaker 01

  Then what are the odds that we're in base reality versus someone else's simulation?

• 3:25:11Joe Rogan?

  Well, isn't it just possible that the simulation is inevitable, but that we are in base reality, building towards a simulation?

• 3:25:20Speaker 01

  We're, we're making simulations.

• 3:25:24Speaker 01

  So we're making simulations, we, we make, like, you can just think of, like, photorealistic video games as, as being simulations.

• 3:25:37Speaker 01

  And especially as you apply AI in these video games, the, the characters in the video games will be incredibly interesting to talk to. They won't just have a limited dialogue tree, where if you go to, like, the, the crossbow merchant, or like, and you, you try to talk about any subject except buying a crossbow, they just want to talk about selling you a crossbow. But with, with, with AI-based non-player characters, you can, you'll be able to have an elaborate conversation with no dialogue tree.

• 3:26:02Joe Rogan?

  Well, that might be the solution for meaning for people. Just lock in and you could be a fucking vampire and whatever. You live in Avatar land, you could do it. You could do whatever you want. I mean, you don't have to think about money or food.

• 3:26:16Speaker 01

  Ready Player One.

• 3:26:16Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, literally, yeah. But with higher living standards.

• 3:26:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:26:22Joe Rogan?

  You don't have to be a little trailer.

• 3:26:23Speaker 01

  I mean, I think people do want to have some amount of struggle or something they want to push against.

• 3:26:33Speaker 01

  But it could be, you know, playing a sports or playing a game.

• 3:26:36Joe Rogan?

  It could be easily playing a game.

• 3:26:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 3:26:38Joe Rogan?

  And especially playing a game where you're now no longer worried about like physical attributes, like athletics, like bad joints and hips and stuff like that now. It's completely digital. But yet you do have meaning in pursuing this thing that you're doing all day.

• 3:26:55Joe Rogan?

  Whatever the fuck that means. It's gonna be weird.

• 3:27:00Speaker 01

  It's gonna be interesting.

• 3:27:01Joe Rogan?

  It's gonna be very interesting.

• 3:27:04Speaker 01

  The most interesting and usually ironic outcome is the most likely.

• 3:27:12Speaker 01

  That's a good predictor of the future.

• 3:27:14Joe Rogan?

  Thank you. Thanks for being here. Really appreciate.

• 3:27:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, good to see you.

• 3:27:17Joe Rogan?

  Appreciate your time. I know you're a busy man, so this means a lot. You've come here to do this.

• 3:27:22Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 3:27:23Joe Rogan?

  Thank you. Bye, everybody.

• 3:27:38Joe Rogan?

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