#2278 - Chase Hughes

Chase Hughes is an expert in influence, persuasion, and human behavior. He is the author of several books, including "The Behavior Ops Manual" and "The Ellipsis Manual." https://nci.university Save $20 on your first subscription of AG1 at drinkag1.com/joerogan 50% off your first box at thefarmersdog.com/rogan! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  The Joe Rogan Experience.

• 0:05Speaker 01

  Training by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day.

• 0:11Joe Rogan?

  Good to see you. We're debuting these mugs. My friend Turkey Merk on Instagram sent me these Cheshire Cat mugs. Isn't that badass?

• 0:22Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's really good.

• 0:24Joe Rogan?

  Thought it'd be good for you, because we're, you know, we're talking about mind fucks. Cheshire Cat's a little bit of a mind fuck.

• 0:29Speaker 03

  In the simulation.

• 0:30Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, for sure. So you were just telling me that you had a brain disease. And you, what did you do to fix it?

• 0:42Speaker 03

  So I, uh...

• 0:43Joe Rogan?

  What was it, first of all?

• 0:45Speaker 03

  It's temporal epilepsy with mesial temporal sclerosis.

• 0:49Joe Rogan?

  And when did you develop this?

• 0:51Speaker 03

  We don't know, but I started having seizures like a few years ago, and everybody in my family knows I'm a neuroscientist. I say with a lowercase n, not a PhD neuroscientist, but...

• 1:03Joe Rogan?

  But you studied neuroscience?

• 1:04Speaker 03

  Yeah, I postgrad at Harvard and Duke. But they assumed, you know, Chase has studied all this stuff, he's gonna know if he's having seizures, but these seizures come with amnesia. So I didn't remember that I was having any of them. And this was like three years ago. I'd retired from the military and then started having these seizures. So then I found a neurologist, the drug that they gave me, the number one side effect was seizures. From this pharmaceutical company. So I kinda looked around and I found this guy's a functional medicine guy, and he got me on methylene blue to start off. And I know Mel Gibson was on here talking about it.

• 1:49Speaker 03

  And that instantly stopped everything. And some other stuff...

• 1:55Joe Rogan?

  That stuff was a fabric dye, right?

• 1:57Speaker 03

  Yeah, in 1890.

• 1:59Joe Rogan?

  How weird.

• 2:00Speaker 03

  And it...

• 2:01Joe Rogan?

  Who the fuck drank it first?

• 2:04Joe Rogan?

  Who's that guy? Make blue jeans out of that? Huh. What do I taste like?

• 2:09Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:10Joe Rogan?

  What if I drink it every day? If it affects my health?

• 2:12Speaker 03

  It tastes like chewing an aspirin.

• 2:14Joe Rogan?

  I'd take it.

• 2:15Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 2:16Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:16Speaker 03

  I take it every day as well.

• 2:17Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, RFK Junior told me about it.

• 2:19Speaker 03

  Yeah, man, it's fantastic. And so this guy's injecting in 1890, injects these rats with it and then does an autopsy on these things. And their brain, the brain stem, every single nerve is blue. So he discovered this methylene blue has an affinity for neuronal tissue. So he says, well, it's sucking into neurons. What's it doing? So we could talk about if you want to, but.

• 2:42Joe Rogan?

  Sure.

• 2:44Speaker 03

  How it's working and working in the body. So we started putting it in humans. And we found out it's an MAOI, which is.

• 2:52Joe Rogan?

  Monohemein oxide inhibitor.

• 2:54Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:54Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:55Speaker 03

  Uh, which helps with depression and anxiety and all kinds of life stress and stuff.

• 3:00Joe Rogan?

  Does it, um, cause side effects if you're taking any drug that you shouldn't take with an MAOI?

• 3:05Speaker 03

  There are some studies that have been recalled. Uh, that said you can't take it with SSRIs because you could develop serotonin syndrome.

• 3:13Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 3:14Speaker 03

  But they, they did recall the studies as far as I'm aware. And it is so incredible that it acts as an electron donor to mitochondria, especially your neuronal mitochondria. So it helps you produce more ATP. And it helps you get rid of this stuff called reactive oxygen species. So you have an oxygen molecule that should have two hydrogens on it. And like your body's job is to convert stuff into water so you can pee it out. So if you get an oxygen molecule, it's got four, five, one, it's a reactive oxygen, which we call free radicals. So methylene blue goes in there and balances a lot of those things out in your brain and your nervous system. So it is a miracle and it's been proven for a hundred years.

• 4:00Speaker 03

  And it's the, one of the most well proven drugs out there.

• 4:03Joe Rogan?

  Well, what's the side effects of it? Are there any?

• 4:05Speaker 03

  Not a, not a bunch.

• 4:06Joe Rogan?

  I would imagine if you're taking an MAOI, there's.

• 4:10Speaker 03

  There.

• 4:11Joe Rogan?

  Wild shit going on there.

• 4:12Speaker 03

  Yeah. Like if you mix it with, uh. Anything that has metyramine in it, like aged cheeses, red wine, you're not supposed to mix it. If you're on a high dose, though, but you're probably taking one milligram per kilogram. And you weigh probably seventy-five kilograms.

• 4:29Joe Rogan?

  What's that weight? What's seventy-five kilograms?

• 4:32Speaker 03

  You're probably one eighty-nine, one ninety?

• 4:34Joe Rogan?

  Close.

• 4:35Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 4:35Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, pretty close.

• 4:36Speaker 03

  So you're about seven.

• 4:37Joe Rogan?

  A little heavier than that.

• 4:37Speaker 03

  Okay. And so you take maybe forty milligrams a day to eighty milligrams a day.

• 4:42Joe Rogan?

  And you, you put it in water? Is that what you do?

• 4:44Speaker 03

  No, I have these little trokes. It's like the consistency of a Starburst.

• 4:48Joe Rogan?

  Oh, okay.

• 4:49Speaker 03

  And you just cut them up and they're forty milligrams each. Uh, you obviously gotta swallow them really quick or your teeth are gonna be blue for, for an entire day.

• 4:57Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah, it's a pretty potent dye. I see it in my pee.

• 5:00Speaker 03

  Yeah. Well, I had to change the toilets in my house to, to black toilets, cause my kids. My kids take it, my wife takes it.

• 5:08Joe Rogan?

  Jesus, everybody takes it.

• 5:10Speaker 03

  But like if you go to a party and you forget to flush, everybody just thinks that that's, there's.

• 5:13Joe Rogan?

  It's one of those supplements that I take. I'm like, are you sure? Like every time I take it, I'm like, are you fucking sure? Like I, I drink it in, in water. I take a little eyedropper and squirt it in water and drink it. No, Gary Brekka told me about it. I should correct that. Uh, he told me to take it with, uh, red light therapy. That's, that's what it was about.

• 5:32Speaker 03

  And he tell you why, why it all works?

• 5:34Joe Rogan?

  He probably did, but I probably forgot.

• 5:37Speaker 03

  Well, it's blue.

• 5:38Joe Rogan?

  Why does it work for red light therapy?

• 5:40Speaker 03

  Um, so anything that's blue means that it absorbs red and reflects blue light. So if you're in a red light therapy machine, all your neurons are soaking up way more red light than, than it, they otherwise would without methylene.

• 5:55Joe Rogan?

  Oh.

• 5:56Speaker 03

  So it's fantastic. It's like six hundred X the effectiveness of red light therapy.

• 5:59Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 6:00Speaker 03

  I'm, I'm making that up, but it is a significant.

• 6:03Joe Rogan?

  Sounds good.

• 6:04Speaker 03

  Yeah. It's a significant increase.

• 6:05Joe Rogan?

  How weird is it to be, uh, essentially a brain expert and get a brain disease?

• 6:11Speaker 03

  It was horrifying because I know where this is gonna go. At the end of the, your hippocampus, your memory center of your brain is eating itself. And during a seizure, you can lose up to about a million neurons a second. And my, the seizures were like a minute and a half long and they're not like shaking on the floor, a temporal lobe seizure. You're just kinda like, you're just out, like you're unconscious.

• 6:35Joe Rogan?

  Just seize up like Mitch McConnell.

• 6:36Speaker 03

  Yeah, like you turn into a little zombie, your head falls down and, um, at the end of the day. I I tried so many different things to to fix it and stop these seizures. I was I was at a point of nine seizures a day.

• 6:49Joe Rogan?

  Jesus.

• 6:50Speaker 03

  And I was desperate.

• 6:52Joe Rogan?

  And you think this is because of the medication that they gave you that causes seizures? Or is this just a?

• 6:56Speaker 03

  I never took it.

• 6:57Joe Rogan?

  You oh, OK, so you had seizures, but the medication, why would they give you something that has a side effect of seizures?

• 7:06Speaker 03

  Well, I don't know.

• 7:07Joe Rogan?

  If you're getting seizures.

• 7:08Speaker 03

  And I don't know why there I mean, you hear so much about these these medical schools getting paid off by companies and stuff that that don't really have our best interests at at heart. And I think that methylene blue, it's you shouldn't have to tell a doctor about methylene blue. I think everybody should know about it. And you can get it on Amazon. You can get it. I I get mine from this company called Mitoozen, and it's fantastic. And it's changed my life. I would have been gone by now.

• 7:36Joe Rogan?

  What's the root cause of this disease? Do they know? They know what's going on?

• 7:39Speaker 03

  So there's one, there's two factors. You have a genetic predisposition. So you have this thing in your genes called the A P O E four allele.

• 7:48Joe Rogan?

  OK, that's the same thing that causes you to get C D E.

• 7:51Speaker 03

  And yeah, Alzheimer's.

• 7:53Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 7:53Speaker 03

  And if you have that plus.

• 7:56Joe Rogan?

  I shouldn't say causes you, but.

• 7:57Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 7:58Joe Rogan?

  You know, it's one of those ones where if you get hit in the head a lot, it's not a good thing to have.

• 8:01Speaker 03

  Right. And then I did 20 years in the military. So being around explosions and all kinds of gunfire and all that kind of stuff, they said this probably caused some kind of concussive syndrome.

• 8:12Joe Rogan?

  Hmm. Yeah, that's a real issue, right? It's people think of concussions only as like you getting hit, but it's not. It's it's any kind of jolting to your body. My friend Mark Gordon works with a a lot of soldiers and people with traumatic brain injuries. And he says you can get it from jet skiing, which is really crazy.

• 8:33Speaker 03

  Wow, just the bounce?

• 8:34Joe Rogan?

  Mm hmm.

• 8:35Speaker 03

  I had no idea.

• 8:36Joe Rogan?

  Bouncing, the jostling, if you like, people who really love jet skiing and do it all the time. They start getting a little bit of CTE.

• 8:42Speaker 03

  That makes sense. Our, our, our brain is floating.

• 8:45Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 8:45Speaker 03

  It's neutrally buoyant inside of liquid, so that makes sense.

• 8:49Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 8:49Speaker 03

  It's smashing around inside your skull.

• 8:51Joe Rogan?

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• 9:33Joe Rogan?

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• 10:18Joe Rogan?

  about how to sort of schedule progress in whatever you're trying to accomplish in your life, how to set things out. How'd you get involved in all this kind of stuff?

• 10:28Speaker 03

  It's a story. I mean, I was 19 years old, stationed in Pearl Harbor. I got turned down by a girl one night, and I went home and I typed in "how to tell when girls like you" on the, on the internet. I printed out like a two foot stack of shit just to, just to read through. Cause I didn't want to be rejected again. So. That's hilarious. I got into this body language stuff and then it was just behavior. And the more I could kind of see somebody's insecurities and when somebody was stressed and the little fears that are hiding behind behaviors, like it made them human to me. So I think I had some social anxiety and me being able to kind of see behind that mask. I wasn't judging anybody, but it was like, wow, they're, they're messed up too.

• 11:11Speaker 03

  So I kind of got addicted to that and I just rode this line down this behavior path. And I got obsessed with studying all this behavior. And a friend of mine was killed on USS Cole during the, the terrorist attack in, in 2001. September 11th, the, the Cole got attacked in the Gulf of Yemen. And I was like, reading these intelligence reports afterward that said, there's failures on the ground. We didn't develop assets in the country. We didn't, you know, take the actions that we needed to take to, to get this intelligence. And I was like, man, they need this behavior stuff. So I got more and more obsessed with it and I started training people in the government, uh, probably around the age of 30 or so. And that was like, just a few years before I retired at 38.

• 11:55Speaker 03

  And I, I, the novelty still hasn't worn off for me. I'm still obsessed with that, that field of study. So were you trained to train people? Like, how did you go about starting to train people? What was it based on? It was me. I, the first group of people I trained was a car dealership, just to see if I could do it. I said, I'm, I'm going to go in there and do it for free. And then I started training people in the military. And these are US Navy and other, other branches. And I'm training them in like these, I got obsessed with this interrogation stuff and how the brain works. And, and I got mostly got obsessed with, if I'm an intelligence officer, uh, my job is to convince somebody to do something that's not in their best interest.

• 12:39Speaker 03

  Like I, I need to convince you to spy for your own country and give us intelligence. Or if I'm an interrogator, I need to convince you to confess to a crime. So I spent time hanging out with, uh, people that do cult recruiting out in California. There's like official people, like human resources for cult recruiting? Yeah, yeah. What do you mean? Like how to, was, do cults hire them? No, I think they join the cult and the cult says, oh, this guy's really charismatic. Or he was a. I think half of these dudes were like ex-club promoters.

• 13:11Joe Rogan?

  Ah, that makes sense.

• 13:13Speaker 03

  You know, they got that vibe, you know, like.

• 13:13Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 13:14Speaker 03

  Wish come by tonight.

• 13:15Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 13:16Speaker 03

  And I spent time in San Bernardino with a couple of people, three or four people, three people, that talked people, women, into doing adult films. Like, young girls that were nineteen, twenty years old, just starting college. And I talked, and I asked them, what are the methods that you use? What are the steps that you follow? And I've watched several of these interactions, and then spent time with interrogators and people who do, like, timeshare sales and stuff like that, which, I don't know if you've ever been at a timeshare sales.

• 13:46Joe Rogan?

  No, I'm not.

• 13:47Speaker 03

  They're hardcore.

• 13:50Speaker 03

  So I spent time with all these people, and I wanted to figure out, what are the elements that make somebody willing to do something that is maybe not in their best interest? And that transformed everything for me. And then I said, we could use all of this stuff from Manchurian candidates, which we can get into if you want to.

• 14:08Joe Rogan?

  Sure.

• 14:09Speaker 03

  To, whatever, to help people instead of to do the opposite. So I could use the same technique to help a person instead of get them to confess to a crime. Because it's just a brain. I'm not learning about interrogation or cult recruiting or anything, I'm just learning, where are these little loopholes in the brain? Does that make sense?

• 14:28Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, so what cults were these people recruiting people for?

• 14:33Speaker 03

  I can't talk about it.

• 14:34Joe Rogan?

  You can't say the name of the cults?

• 14:35Speaker 03

  You can't say the name.

• 14:35Joe Rogan?

  How many different people did you talk to that were cult recruiters?

• 14:38Speaker 03

  Six.

• 14:39Joe Rogan?

  Six? So there's more than six. How many cults are there active right now?

• 14:42Speaker 03

  It was two. There were two cults.

• 14:44Joe Rogan?

  Two cults, six recruiters.

• 14:45Speaker 03

  Yep, I call them, I would call them cults, but, um...

• 14:49Joe Rogan?

  Well, I call a lot of things cult, so throw that word around freely.

• 14:52Speaker 03

  Let's do it.

• 14:55Speaker 03

  And these guys were just, they were, they had that little Bill Clinton energy. You know what I mean? They just kind of captivated the person they were talking to in this little bubble. They were all about you, they're really interested in you.

• 15:06Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 15:06Speaker 03

  And...

• 15:07Joe Rogan?

  I heard Tom Cruise is awesome at that.

• 15:09Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 15:10Joe Rogan?

  I heard when you talked to him, you're like the only person in the room.

• 15:12Speaker 03

  Yeah, and it's just that, that, "Tell me more, tell me more." "Tell me about your mom."

• 15:19Speaker 03

  And you get that, they all had that quality to them. But one of the things that all of them had, the one trait that I think all of those guys had, was they could get you to deviate off of your baseline really quick. And so if you're, they can get you to curse, that's step one. They get you to say something that's a little bit out of, outside of a social norm. They would all do that as step one.

• 15:43Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 15:44Speaker 03

  Every single time.

• 15:46Joe Rogan?

  Huh. So what, what, like in the cult, how would they do that? What would they try to get you to deviate from? What would they try to get you to do?

• 15:55Speaker 03

  So in the, their goal was to get you to agree to join the cult. So if I can get you to do something that's outside of your norm. So I use something called elicitation. So instead of me asking questions, let's say we get into the back of an Uber and I wanna ask the Uber driver to complain about his job.

• 16:12Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 16:12Speaker 03

  Instead of using questions, which are weird, right? So like, I'm like, hey, do you like your job?

• 16:17Joe Rogan?

  Right, that's weird.

• 16:18Speaker 03

  Weird. It's like saying, hey, how much do you guys make? Um, you say, hey, I just read this article the other day, said Uber drivers are the, are the most highest respected people out there and they love their job. They have the highest job satisfaction rating. That's incredible. And they turn, the guy turns around like, what?

• 16:35Joe Rogan?

  Duh, so you bullshitted them.

• 16:37Speaker 03

  Right, so, just, that's called, uh, triggering a need to correct the record. It's one of the methods.

• 16:43Joe Rogan?

  Oh.

• 16:44Speaker 03

  But I very quickly get your brain to associate a mental script of friend mode. Cause he doesn't talk about that with other writers. He, he bitches about his job to his, his friends.

• 16:55Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 16:56Speaker 03

  So I'm getting your brain to start shifting into this, I'm behaving as if I'm with a friend.

• 17:01Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 17:02Speaker 03

  So I start getting that behavior out of a person very quickly. So we're just activating a script in that person's mind that goes from, I'm with a client to I'm with a friend.

• 17:11Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 17:11Speaker 03

  And that's to get, that's that first level deviation of behavior, right there.

• 17:15Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 17:16Speaker 03

  And you, uh, once you get the script activated, you can start leading them in other directions. So the second step usually, and this goes into Manchurian Candidate stuff, and if you wanna talk about see your hand, see your hand and all that kinda stuff, we can.

• 17:28Joe Rogan?

  Sure.

• 17:29Speaker 03

  Um, but to get them to start making a little bit of an identity agreement. Are you this type of person? So, in reality...

• 17:39Speaker 03

  If I wanted you to, let's say, join a cult, like, are you the type of person, and I'll just have an A B question.

• 17:45Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 17:46Speaker 03

  So, you know, in my life, I've discovered there's two types of people. There's people that take action when they know something's right, and there's people that wait and wait and wait. And I'm sure you know people that wait and wait and wait. But I've got you to agree that you're type one.

• 17:57Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 17:58Speaker 03

  Because I said, I'm sure you know people, and even your head nodded.

• 18:01Joe Rogan?

  Right, right.

• 18:02Speaker 03

  So I've got this little agreement of identity. I am a type of person who blank.

• 18:08Joe Rogan?

  Right. So you're influencing a person to sort of go along with whatever narrative you've already created about them?

• 18:14Speaker 03

  Right, yes.

• 18:15Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 18:16Speaker 03

  And if, the moment you get to identity, then you're guaranteeing that you can predict future behavior. And this goes really deep. We can get into hypnosis and all that stuff if you want to. And, uh, once I get identity agreement, this is the same thing with politics. You see, the exact same thing. They, the identity gets hijacked, and then I can do anything I want. Because your identity's involved here. It's not you're agreeing with my ideas. You're agreeing because it's who you are.

• 18:43Joe Rogan?

  Right, but doesn't the person have to sort of respect you first in order to go along with this sort of social change? They have to have some sort of an appreciation of you. You have to be impressive.

• 18:56Speaker 03

  At the very beginning, yes. But the moment your identity's involved, they can lead it further and further and further. And then, so one of the third steps, there's a million, but if, there's an experiment, if Jamie could pull it up, called the, the lines experiment with Dr. Solomon Ash.

• 19:13Joe Rogan?

  Lion, like the animal, or L I N E?

• 19:16Speaker 03

  Line.

• 19:17Joe Rogan?

  Lines?

• 19:17Speaker 03

  Line, L I N E. So where this guy, uh, is at a table, kind of like this, but there's, you're a volunteer at experiment, there's like fifteen people in the room, everybody else but you is a, is a, is in on the experiment. You're the only volunteer in the room. So they show you these lines that, um, are three lines on one page, and they show one page that has one line on it. So which line on this page is equal to this line over here?

• 19:44Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 19:45Speaker 03

  So, obviously, you're over here on the target line, you're gonna pick C.

• 19:49Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 19:49Speaker 03

  Right? I mean, that's glaringly obvious.

• 19:53Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 19:54Speaker 03

  So, in this experiment, Dr. Ash is doing this conformity experiment. So, these other people in the room all go before you, and everybody in the room, one at a time, says, "A, A, A, A, A, A." And it gets around to the person, and this was almost 100%, 100% of the people in the experiment would say, "A."

• 20:17Speaker 03

  And it's right in front of their face.

• 20:19Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 20:20Speaker 03

  The truth is right in front of their face, and they would, they would go with the group because the group did it. The group is telling them what to choose.

• 20:29Joe Rogan?

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• 22:37Joe Rogan?

  It also works as a power bank and has a built-in LED flashlight. NOCO, the end of jumper cables. Use code ROGEN10 for 10% off select jump starters at NO.co. Light, like the difference is so glaringly obvious. It's kind of amazing. How did they pre-pick the people that were going to be the test subjects? Like, did they have any specific things they were looking for? Because I think there's a lot of people that even if you got 13 people to say A, they would go, "What are you guys talking about?" It's C. Like, was there anything about them that they picked? Like, were these people pre-selected for being? No.

• 23:20Speaker 03

  No. And they ran the experiment.

• 23:22Joe Rogan?

  Do you ever think about yourself in that room? What would you do?

• 23:24Speaker 03

  Yeah, and I worry.

• 23:25Joe Rogan?

  What do you? Do you?

• 23:27Speaker 03

  No, I think in reality, everybody that's listening right now would say, "Not me." 100% of people would say, "I wouldn't do that."

• 23:36Joe Rogan?

  Well, I think it kind of depends on your station in life.

• 23:39Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 23:40Joe Rogan?

  You know, where you're at. When I was young, I might have just said A, because everybody was saying A.

• 23:45Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 23:45Joe Rogan?

  You know, because I didn't want to be an idiot.

• 23:47Speaker 03

  So that's one of the things they did. They replicated the experiment on college campuses.

• 23:52Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 23:52Speaker 03

  Whereas people are highly suggestible. They're young, they're still trying to figure out who they are. And so, a lot more suggestible. And this is, if you think of the way that social media manipulates our brain, it falsifies tribal agreement.

• 24:07Speaker 03

  And it makes us say A.

• 24:09Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 24:09Speaker 03

  So we're willing to ignore everything that we see because we're seeing a tribe say that something else is happening.

• 24:16Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 24:17Speaker 03

  So it'll override our brain. And if there's one thing, like if you just, one thing that that matters a lot is that our brains are not capable of this tech, of overcoming this technology. We don't have a firewall. And technology has outpaced our brains' ability to adapt to it. So I can falsify a tribe around you that says, oh, this is all happening right now.

• 24:41Joe Rogan?

  Mm hmm.

• 24:42Speaker 03

  And Dr. Phil, you and I both are friends with Dr. Phil.

• 24:45Joe Rogan?

  Mm hmm.

• 24:46Speaker 03

  Calls this the tyranny of the fringe, where this fringe pretends to be a group of a million people. When it's just a small group that gets over a lot of attention. It's really inflated, so it looks like it's more popular than it actually is. And if your identity is already there, then that automatically makes sense and we'll ignore just basic facts. And it's not about the right or the left. It's both of those sides have been doing this stuff for a long time. But if I can get you to think that most of your tribal members agree to X, then most people, like ninety percent of people, will say, okay, X is true.

• 25:23Joe Rogan?

  Hmm. Well, especially with social media, right? Because obviously it'd be about something about something that's a little bit more complex than the size of a line. But you're so easily manipulated because it's not really just people that are responding. It's a lot of bots.

• 25:40Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 25:41Joe Rogan?

  And you're seeing that more and more lately. Um, I was watching this video today and somebody pointed out after the video, look how many bots have retweeted this video. And it was astounding. So it's like, oh, there's a narrative that someone's trying to push because of this selectively edited video.

• 26:00Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 26:00Joe Rogan?

  Like, wow.

• 26:01Speaker 03

  Well, you're a dragon believer. I saw that. I love that so much, man.

• 26:07Joe Rogan?

  That's just the view ladies, they're crazy. They're the gift that keeps giving. That's that poor but lady Joy Reid, or not Joy Reid, Joy Behar.

• 26:16Speaker 03

  Yeah, said you believe in dragons.

• 26:18Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's hilarious.

• 26:19Speaker 03

  And the next day, I think I checked your Twitter and it was, just said Joe Rogan, dragon belief.

• 26:24Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I said I have to change it now, it's perfect. It's just for someone like me, that's like, that's a gift.

• 26:31Speaker 03

  And what you were doing is not just, I mean, it was funny. It was really funny. But it helped to shine a light on the absurdity. The absurdity that, that some of these people will go to, to just give people misinformation. Like the most obvious misinformation.

• 26:48Joe Rogan?

  Well, not only that, but it was after she was talking about the view being a great source of information because they're a part of ABC News, so they check things. Unlike me, who believes in dragons.

• 27:04Joe Rogan?

  So it's like, it was so perfect, it's like, fucking, did you even watch the video? And then she said she double-checked it. Did you double-check that? Like, oh yeah, I did.

• 27:13Speaker 03

  I've checked it.

• 27:16Joe Rogan?

  That was wonderful. It made my day. I was happy all day that day. I was like, what a great day.

• 27:20Speaker 03

  It made my day to see you change your Twitter.

• 27:22Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's funny when people are so, their approach is so simplistic. It's so obvious to anyone else that it becomes fun. It become, it doesn't work at all. Not only does it not slander you, not only does it not disparage people's opinions of you, it creates fun.

• 27:41Speaker 03

  Comedy.

• 27:42Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it creates comedy. It's like, it's so ridiculous. But this is the problem, not just with bots and social media influence, but also with echo chambers, right? Echo chambers that people create, where they get a bunch of people that only agree with them and everybody disagrees with them. Instead of looking at them, and you see that on that show all the time. Instead of looking at someone else's perspective and going, okay, so tell me how you came to this conclusion? Like, why do you think this? And like, letting them fully express, instead it's like, eh, eh.

• 28:14Joe Rogan?

  Everything is interrupty, everything is shouty. I disagree with everything you have said. Audience claps and they're gonna stand up for this or for that or... Instead of having an actual conversation about opinions and ideas and how you formulate them and how your mind works and how you think about things and why you think about things. Instead of that, it's just ideological battles every day.

• 28:37Speaker 03

  Exactly. And it's identity instead of ideas.

• 28:40Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 28:41Speaker 03

  Is what it is.

• 28:42Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's tribal, it's super... Well, it's a bunch of people that are afraid to be alone and are afraid to be on the outside. And so whatever the group agrees to, they find some sort of mental gymnastics they can apply to these ideas to make them relevant.

• 29:00Speaker 03

  And it will reverse rationalize a lot of those decisions.

• 29:04Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 29:04Speaker 03

  So they're emotionally made and logically rationalized in our head. But we think that it's a logical decision. It's so easy to weaponize a human being, from a Manchurian candidate to just getting someone to like something on Twitter because it makes them feel morally or intellectually superior because they shared it.

• 29:22Joe Rogan?

  It also makes them feel like they're a part of a team, which people love. I mean, we are tribal animals. We do not like to be alone, outcast. We like to be a part of a team, which is why you see audience capture as a big thing that happens to people online. They find people that agree with them and then they sort of lean into it.

• 29:39Speaker 03

  Big time.

• 29:39Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 29:40Speaker 03

  They lean maybe a little too hard.

• 29:42Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, a lot of people do. A lot of people, they kind of lose who they are. And people love to accuse everybody of that. It's interesting because everyone's kind of aware of it now that it's a thing, which is good, you know, keeps people on their toes. But when, bringing it back to the cults, so they would try to get you to do something and deviate from your normal patterns.

• 30:02Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 30:03Joe Rogan?

  And then most of these, most cults are like sex cults, right? Like, pretty much all of them, right?

• 30:07Speaker 03

  I think they're just started by really sex-obsessed dudes.

• 30:13Speaker 03

  Like, you know what? I need a bunch of 20-year-olds in here.

• 30:15Joe Rogan?

  There's a few cults that have been started by ladies, right?

• 30:18Speaker 03

  Very few.

• 30:19Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, a few. And then there was that Wild Wild Country one, Osho's one, where the lady ran it. And he was kind of like, sort of just this very odd eccentric guru, and she was an assassin.

• 30:31Speaker 03

  I didn't know this.

• 30:32Joe Rogan?

  Oh, you didn't watch that?

• 30:33Speaker 03

  No.

• 30:33Joe Rogan?

  Netflix documentary?

• 30:34Speaker 03

  No.

• 30:34Joe Rogan?

  Oh, it's fantastic. It's so good. Because like, all cult documentaries, it starts out like, oh, these people have it nailed. It starts out so good. They're, they're cooking together and laughing and dancing and doing yoga and having a good old time and chanting. And it seems like they're having a wonderful time. But eventually they take over this town in, was it Oregon? Is it Oregon, right? I think so. Um, somewhere in the Pacific Northwest, I believe it's Oregon. So they take over a town and they actually bus in homeless people so that they can pump up their numbers and uh, vote to take over the town. Yeah. Essentially what some people were accusing the Biden administration of doing with uh, leaving the borders open for illegals and then

• 31:19Joe Rogan?

  allowing them to vote. Same sort of deal. So they, they took over this town and they poisoned a bunch of people. It's like really crazy. It's cra- crazy documentary. And then eventually it falls apart.

• 31:30Speaker 03

  Isn't that most cults? Like, like you look at it at the, from the outside, you're like, wow, they're barefoot, walking on grass, they're eating natural stuff, organic stuff.

• 31:37Joe Rogan?

  Having this a good time.

• 31:38Speaker 03

  They sing together, they're having this good time. And then, then they take you into the room.

• 31:42Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 31:42Speaker 03

  And they say, you know what, Joe? You've reached the level. Uh, aliens live in your butthole.

• 31:46Joe Rogan?

  Uh, we gotta get them out. Yeah. Something along those lines.

• 31:49Speaker 03

  Something crazy.

• 31:50Joe Rogan?

  It's, a lot of them are sex cults. If they're not sex cults, they're like money cults or power cults or, you know? Or ideological cults, which I think progressivism is. I think it's an ideological cult. And I think that um, people, uh, they enjoy being around people that are very confident that they're correct. Yeah. When someone like, if, most of us like, don't, what is life all about? So many questions. And if you come across someone who has all the answers and they're so confident about it, it's very attractive.

• 32:19Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 32:20Joe Rogan?

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• 33:01Joe Rogan?

  And their food is made to the same safety standards as human food. It's lightly cooked to retain vital nutrients and then it's pre-portioned to suit your dog's needs. So try The Farmer's Dog today and get 50% off your first box of healthy, freshly made food plus free shipping. Just go to thefarmersdog.com/rogan, tap the banner, or visit this episode's page to learn more. The offer is for new customers only.

• 33:30Speaker 03

  And I think for people that are asking questions, what are the, which may be the type of people that are joining these cults, they're questioning things in their life.

• 33:37Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 33:38Speaker 03

  Our brains are naturally attracted to certainty and authority. And there's, we can talk about, man, authority is what we really probably should talk about. But we're attracted to that. And our brains, the mammalian part of our brain, will simply follow somebody that is easily followed. Like, what is the clearest signal? It's not the smartest person in the room, not the best idea. What's the clearest signal that's pointing in a direction that I can follow? And our brains will just default to, once we trust that authority figure, we're automatically going to assign good traits to them. We're going to think that they're a good person, we're a good person because we're aligning with this person, just because they were followable.

• 34:18Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 34:19Speaker 03

  So it's a clear message.

• 34:20Joe Rogan?

  And so these guys who were recruiting people for cults, were they open with you about this stuff? Or did you kind of like figure it out by talking to them?

• 34:29Speaker 03

  I signed a ridiculous non-disclosure agreement with each one of them individually. The main-

• 34:36Joe Rogan?

  The cults have NDAs?

• 34:37Speaker 03

  No, no, no. The main-

• 34:39Joe Rogan?

  The individuals.

• 34:40Speaker 03

  The main organization did not know I was there.

• 34:41Joe Rogan?

  Oh, I see, I see.

• 34:42Speaker 03

  And it was mostly, they would go around the mall. They spend time around these shopping mall areas.

• 34:47Joe Rogan?

  The mall?

• 34:48Speaker 03

  And talk to people, yeah. And it was like, it was all kind of very basic at the beginning. So cult indoctrination is a longer process. It's not like, hey, let me talk to you for five minutes and you're like, yeah, yeah, I'll join your cults and we'll worship aliens and stuff together. It's, it's a long process. We're like, the deviation escalation continues to increase over time.

• 35:08Speaker 03

  And it's the exact same way if you're if you're programming some Manchurian candidate, or if you're a hypnotist and you're seeing a client, you want to get them to deviate from their normal behaviors, right?

• 35:17Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 35:18Speaker 03

  To fix their behavior.

• 35:19Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 35:19Speaker 03

  So it's not all bad. So we can use the same, a lot of those same techniques to help somebody instead of hurt them. That's what I started discovering over the years. And I've studied like, how to access every loophole in the human brain. And the fastest way to do that is through novelty and authority. Number one. And there is nothing faster in the human brain that were, that'll give you that kind of access.

• 35:44Joe Rogan?

  Novelty and authority. Like, give me some examples of that.

• 35:47Speaker 03

  So let's say, you and I are living 10,000 years ago, 15,000 years ago. The average tribe of people was like 150, 120. And let's say your job and my job was to go and collect fish in a bag, and fish, and then kind of bring it back to the tribe at the end of the day. And every day, we went to the same spot, it's a great spot, we walked by this bush, this big ass bush. And one day, we're going back and talking about the fish we got, and you hear a stick snap behind that bush, that we haven't heard before. So it's a, it's an unexpected deviation from your mental script of what's gonna happen. Does this make sense so far?

• 36:25Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 36:26Speaker 03

  So we're walking by the bush, the stick snaps. Now, what's generated in that moment is a tremendous amount of focus. Like, there could be a threat, it could be a rabbit that we can eat. Right? So a threat or a value is what our, how our brain responds to something new and something unexpected. Is it a threat? Is it valuable? Socially or otherwise, valuable. So the stick breaks, we're not thinking about our kids, we're not thinking about how many fish are in the bag, we're only thinking about this novel, new thing that interrupted my brain's script of what I thought was gonna happen.

• 36:57Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 36:58Speaker 03

  You with me so far?

• 36:59Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 36:59Speaker 03

  So, in our life, when we see something that's unexpected, something that we

• 37:06Speaker 03

  I guess we're not expecting. So we're driving a car, blue lights in your rearview mirror is tremendous amount of novelty, threat, value, right? So our brain says, this is how I tie my shoes. This is how I go to work. This is how I run the cash register at Starbucks, whatever it is, we develop these apps in our head. And when something interrupts one of those programs, our brain automatically says, this is different. This is not expected. I need all of my focus down on this one thing.

• 37:36Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 37:36Speaker 03

  And that's how novelty starts to trigger our brain. Makes sense so far?

• 37:39Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 37:40Speaker 03

  And authority is the second piece.

• 37:42Joe Rogan?

  So what would be an example that someone would use as like novelty to get like novelty and authority? If you want to get someone to follow you, like what would be novelty that you would apply?

• 37:52Speaker 03

  Give me any, any scenario and I'll, I'll tell you.

• 37:55Joe Rogan?

  Okay. You're trying to get someone to join a cult?

• 37:57Speaker 03

  Yeah. So the novelty right away is I'm going to approach you and say something or ask you a question that you've never been asked before. And there's no possible way that your brain could have gotten ready for that scenario. And it could be something ridiculously stupid. It'd be like, hey, did you see these guys fighting outside like here last week? Where you're walking up and you say, hey, I'm going to ask you three questions, but you only have 12 seconds to answer. No one's ever said something like that.

• 38:20Joe Rogan?

  Okay. So you're just getting them out of their comfort zone, getting them into like, whoa, what's going on?

• 38:24Speaker 03

  Yeah, we're breaking a pattern.

• 38:26Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 38:26Speaker 03

  So we're, we're, we're all running on patterns all the time. The moment a pattern is broken, we have tremendous focus. So focus is the first step to hacking the mammalian brain. Authority is next. And authority is like, if you look at the Milgram experiment, have you heard of this?

• 38:42Joe Rogan?

  Mm hmm.

• 38:43Speaker 03

  Oh my God. Have you, are you, have you gone deep on it?

• 38:46Joe Rogan?

  Not really. I mean, but explain it to people so they know what you're talking about.

• 38:49Speaker 03

  Jamie, can we bring up a picture of the box? The shocking box from this experiment is just.

• 38:54Joe Rogan?

  Essentially, they told people that they had to keep shocking people even if, and then they did it to the point where they thought the other person on the other side was actually dead. And they kept shocking.

• 39:03Speaker 03

  Yeah. And.

• 39:04Joe Rogan?

  What year was this?

• 39:06Speaker 03

  Uh, 62, 1962 at Yale University.

• 39:11Speaker 03

  This is a variation of the experiment, but just go to the one, the third one.

• 39:16Speaker 03

  Right there. So that's Stanley Milgram standing over that machine right there. So you'll notice on the bottom right, it says danger severe shock, right there.

• 39:25Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 39:25Speaker 03

  So you're essentially told you're gonna, the guy's on the other side of a drywall, wall. He's in another room, but you can hear him yelling every time you shock. And every time you're asking him these questions and he gets the answer wrong, he's like a, he's acting like a dumbass. He's obviously in on the experiment.

• 39:39Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 39:40Speaker 03

  But these people think they're shocking this guy. And in real life, man, I had that in airplane mode.

• 39:49Speaker 03

  In, in real life, this guy is just, he's running a script. He's a, a participant in the experiment. He's in on it. But as the person's getting shocked, you hear him scream, you hear him say, I want to get out of here. I don't want to do this anymore. I have a heart condition. He's banging around. And then at, at around 300 volts, and it goes up to 450 on this machine. 300 volts, no more sound. He stops answering questions. And these people are sitting there at the machine, kind of turning around to this guy in the lab coat that's running them, running this experiment. And the guy in the lab coat saying, well, it's important that you continue. The experiment requires that you continue. And they keep going. They keep delivering electric shocks to this guy that was screaming before and is now silent.

• 40:32Speaker 03

  He's not even answering these questions on the test anymore.

• 40:35Joe Rogan?

  Did everybody do it?

• 40:37Speaker 03

  So before the experiment started, these bunch of psychologists got together and they said like, all right, who's gonna go all the way through? Who's gonna do everything? And they thought 0.4%, something like that. It would have to be a psychopath. It would have to be somebody that was malicious or wanted to hurt people. And after the experiment was conducted, 67% of people went all the way. And this is, so what we're really dealing with here is not an experiment. It's a person being talked into murder in less than an hour. A regular, normal human being talked into murder.

• 41:16Joe Rogan?

  67% of them.

• 41:18Speaker 03

  67%. And 250 volts is enough to kill you. Would you agree? If you have the right amps.

• 41:24Joe Rogan?

  I, I don't know, but I, I believe you.

• 41:26Speaker 03

  Yeah. 100% went to 250.

• 41:30Joe Rogan?

  Geez.

• 41:31Speaker 03

  Hundred percent. So.

• 41:34Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 41:35Joe Rogan?

  So that could kill you. A hundred percent at least attempted murder.

• 41:37Speaker 03

  Yeah, and I train sales teams all the time. They're like, oh, we have, you know, it's hard to sell this product or this thing. And I'm like, I show them this thing and like, where's the sales script these guys use at Yale University? There wasn't a script. It's not like, oh, let me get the perfect words on the phone for this telemarketing company.

• 41:55Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 41:55Speaker 03

  There's no script. There's no hypnosis. There's no like NLP stuff going on where I have to say these little magic words. And I kind of view that aspect of persuasion, like the guys that are obsessed with sales scripts. It's like Harry Potter. Like, there's no magic words that are gonna make someone take action. We take action based on the mammalian brain. And what was present there at Yale University, if you're the volunteer there, you respond to an ad in the paper you've never responded to before. Novelty. At a university you've never been to, in a building you've never been in, with two people you've never met, in a room you've never been in, sitting in front of a machine that's absolutely foreign to you. It's alien. Every single step of the way was novelty. And then the guy in the lab coat,

• 42:39Speaker 03

  they made him like, I think he was six foot seven.

• 42:43Speaker 03

  And he's running the experiment. And we have this stuff called white coat syndrome, where we respond to doctors. And there's even research where people were given diagnoses and that they, for things they didn't have, and they developed the symptoms because a doctor has told them this. And that's how powerful novelty plus authority is, is you, there are people talked into murder in under an hour. And there's no magic recipe to do it. It's authority and novelty. And authority has five components, if you want to just go into them. So that's confidence. Obviously, somebody's gotta be really confident to be an authority figure. And this is just a conviction in my belief, and a generalized

• 43:25Speaker 03

  belief in my head that everything's gonna be fine. Everything's gonna be okay. Discipline is number two. And discipline, I don't say discipline is part of authority because like if everybody, like when you were younger, you ever like go to a party and like put a really nice suit on and all that stuff and like you're you have a seven foot pile of laundry back at home like shit all over your bathroom counter like you were not put together. I was there. But like there's a part of our brain that reminds us that we don't have everything together. So when we go out, we're not, other people aren't saying, oh, this guy's not disciplined. No one's saying that. But they are getting a gut feeling that something's off. Because there's something disharmonic. There's something incongruent about our behavior because we know there's a part of our brain says, you know, I'm faking this right now.

• 44:10Speaker 03

  I'm not this put together. So having discipline off camera when nobody's looking makes gut feelings in people. It was one of those things where we have this ancient brain that's judging whether or not everything's congruent. So confidence, discipline, leadership, and leadership just means if I brought you back a thousand years, could you still, would people still follow you? Like your behavior is confident and certain enough and all of that, that people would follow you. Not language and all that. Do you say the right things? And do you give people compliments? That's not, what I mean is tribal leadership from the mammalian perspective, not human. So confidence, discipline, leadership, gratitude, and enjoyment are

• 44:52Speaker 03

  the final two. Gratitude, just not saying like I'm keeping this gratitude journal every day or anything like that. Just I'm a grateful person. And I have perspective and gratitude. So I'm able to zoom out and think of like the larger picture when I'm thinking of gratitude. Not just like, oh, thanks, I'm thankful for my health today, but I'm thankful like we didn't have a nuclear war yesterday. We didn't have all this stuff happen. And what, the reason these things are effective is because they produce, having them when nobody's looking produces the precise gut feelings in another person that make them say, that's an authority figure.

• 45:30Speaker 03

  So when you have authority, you can get away with anything you want. And I go to these companies, I train companies and people all over in how to increase sales and all that. And they're all like, well, we have a good script. We've got this piece of paper right here that's, that's really great. We spent $10 million developing the sales script. I'm like, give the script to somebody out here with social anxiety and have them get on the phone. They're gonna, they're gonna bomb. They'd be the worst frickin' salesman out there. Cause they, they, the script is meaningless, but everybody puts so much value in these words. It's who you are first, then what you say. And, and people just ignore the first part.

• 46:10Speaker 03

  I mean, if you think of, if I go off on a small rant here, I could, I could tell you something, a question bubble up in your head.

• 46:17Joe Rogan?

  No, go ahead.

• 46:19Speaker 03

  There's too many times people obsess over symptoms instead of causes. So you go on LinkedIn or whatever and it says, how to be confident. Here are the 15 ways to be confident. Here's the 12 things that confident people do. They have great posture, they make good eye contact, there's a firm handshake, they use your name, they pat you on the shoulder, all this kinda shit. Those are symptoms of being confident. It's not confidence. So our culture today is obsessed with symptoms of things. Let me get symptoms of wealth. I'm gonna get this Porsche, I'm gonna get this yacht, I'm gonna get this plane, post it all over Instagram and show people that I have these symptoms. So what we're really looking at is like when I'm trying to, somebody's trying to learn sales.

• 47:01Speaker 03

  Let me teach you the symptoms of what a good salesperson has, instead of the cause of what makes them a good salesperson.

• 47:06Joe Rogan?

  Hmm, that makes sense. So in order for someone to truly be confident, they have to take all those steps to make, do you want some coffee?

• 47:16Speaker 03

  No, actually, yeah.

• 47:18Joe Rogan?

  Okay. You want it in the crazy cup or a regular one?

• 47:20Speaker 03

  I'll take the crazy cup.

• 47:21Joe Rogan?

  Crazy cup's a little hard to drink out of.

• 47:22Speaker 03

  Is it?

• 47:22Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 47:23Speaker 03

  I'll switch. I don't wanna dirty that one up.

• 47:25Joe Rogan?

  No, don't worry about it. Um, so they, they, they have to have all those ducks in a row. If they don't, people are going to sense it. They're going to know, even if they exhibit all the behavior characteristics of someone who's confident, it's gonna be something off. Cause we have some way, some ancient way of, of detecting bullshit in ourselves.

• 47:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, we get those gut feelings.

• 47:51Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, we know when something's off. Someone's a little full of it, someone's faking it.

• 47:55Speaker 03

  Yeah, I know, I mean, we've all had that experience, like, everything looked right on the surface. Anybody who's watching it from a distance was like, wow, that guy's really confident. But in your gut, you're like, something's off.

• 48:06Joe Rogan?

  Well, particularly if you have all those bases covered. If you have all those bases covered, I think it makes it far easier to see in other people when they don't.

• 48:17Speaker 03

  Yeah, because, I mean, if you have confidence, that means I'm living in front of my eyes.

• 48:21Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 48:22Speaker 03

  I'm not just stuck back here the whole time.

• 48:24Joe Rogan?

  So if you're gonna teach people how to be confident, essentially, you have to teach them how to get their shit together.

• 48:30Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 48:31Joe Rogan?

  Unequivocably, like, undoubtedly, you know, undebatably, like, you have to, you have to have your shit together, clearly.

• 48:40Speaker 03

  Absolutely.

• 48:41Joe Rogan?

  Otherwise, you're not gonna really be confident. You're always, it's always the back of your head, it's always gonna be fucking with you.

• 48:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, and there's five areas of your life that I've identified. These are not, this is not some self-help program or anything, but there's five areas of your life that create gut feelings in other people, and that's your environment, how you handle all of these things. Your environment, your time, your appearance, your social skills, and your financial life. It's like, if I've got unpaid bills, I've got creditors knocking on my door all the time, and then I go out and try to look like I've got my shit together, I'm gonna send those signals that something's not right.

• 49:12Joe Rogan?

  To people that are aware, not to people that are willing to join cults.

• 49:16Speaker 03

  Right. Correct.

• 49:19Joe Rogan?

  That's the problem is that there's not really an operating manual for life or for the human mind. And we're dealing with these very complicated systems. Complicated systems of work and social life and hobbies and all the different things that people do. It's very, very complicated. And a lot of people are just kind of like stumbling through it, learning along the way, hopefully every time they fuck up.

• 49:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. So, and a lot of that is, even with these cult recruiters, these people have an unconscious knack to spot suggestible people. So your level of suggestibility is, how much will you think a person's an authority figure, even if they're faking confidence? That's basically what that is. Will you accept a suggestion and act on it? And we've got guys like Sirhan Sirhan, who killed RFK in San Francisco. This is 60s.

• 50:16Joe Rogan?

  I think it's Los Angeles.

• 50:17Speaker 03

  I think it was San Francisco.

• 50:19Joe Rogan?

  I think it's Los Angeles, because I was at the actual hotel where they did it. We actually filmed Fear Factor there. See, that's true.

• 50:26Speaker 03

  I don't doubt you at all.

• 50:28Joe Rogan?

  I'm pretty sure, pretty sure it was Los Angeles. And there's also some debate as to whether or not he did it.

• 50:32Speaker 03

  Oh, I did a whole video on this on my channel, yeah.

• 50:36Joe Rogan?

  What did, I don't know enough about it. But I know that there's some people that, you know, obviously, there's some people that think that like JFK's driver shot him. There's some like kooky conspiracies. Yeah, Ambassador Hotel in Los Angeles shortly after Kennedy had finished. Yeah. That hotel, we filmed Fear Factor there once. That's the only reason why I know. And we were in the kitchen where like Sirhan Sirhan.

• 50:58Speaker 03

  It happened in the kitchen.

• 50:59Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, we were in the spot. I'm like, this is crazy that we could film this stupid fucking show in a place where a presidential candidate got murdered.

• 51:06Speaker 03

  Yeah. Was that the reason they filmed there?

• 51:08Joe Rogan?

  Um, I think a lot of stuff filmed in that hotel. I think the hotel had been defunct. And a lot of, um, there's like abandoned buildings and things in Los Angeles that they use for filming stuff. You know, because there's a big filming industry, like they film films and TV shows and stuff there. It's like a cool environment and it was like spooky, rundown, old hotel. I don't even remember the show, the episode, but I just remember us being in that, that room going, ooh.

• 51:38Speaker 03

  Weird feeling.

• 51:39Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, so the Sirhan Sirhan thing is like that people believe that's part of MKUltra, that he was some sort of mind controlled person.

• 51:48Speaker 03

  I do.

• 51:48Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 51:49Speaker 03

  And I mean, I may be the number one guy in the country on the mind control stuff. I think I probably am. And I definitely believe that was influenced by a guy named Dr. Joylen West.

• 52:02Joe Rogan?

  Jolly West.

• 52:03Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 52:03Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 52:04Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 52:06Speaker 03

  So, and it's not about skill. It's something like if you're doing something like this, it's not much about skill level. It's can you find a good target that's highly suggestible? And it almost, you have some basic skills in this. I give you like three or four days worth of training in how to do covert hypnosis and all of this other stuff and how to create amnesia in a person. So where you can just tell them to forget something and they'll willingly forget it.

• 52:35Speaker 03

  It's, I could train you in three days how to do something like that. It's terrifying how our brains do not have a firewall. And the moment that our conscious filter that filters like, is this information good for me? Should I accept this information? If I can bypass that filter, which is very easy to do, you can kind of just jam in whatever you want into somebody's head.

• 52:57Joe Rogan?

  And this episode is brought to you by LifeLock. Scams have gotten smarter because criminals use AI to flood you with fake texts, emails, and phone calls that are designed to be more convincing than ever. One wrong click can put your personal information and your identity at risk. So protect yourself with LifeLock. LifeLock helps detect and alert you to threats. And if your identity is stolen, LifeLock will step in to fix it, guaranteed or your money back. Dedicated US-based identity restoration specialists will work with you until your identity is restored, backed by the million dollar protection package with up to $3 million in coverage for eligible losses and expenses.

• 53:40Joe Rogan?

  Visit lifelock.com and save up to 30% your first year with the promo code JRE. That's promo code. J R E or go to lifelock.com slash J R E for 30% off. Terms apply. This episode is brought to you by ZipRecruiter. Believe it or not, the holiday season is here again, and that means you might need to fill some seasonal roles fast. Maybe you need extra cashiers or stalkers, or maybe something more unique like a lead elf, or an expert gift wrapper, or a Zamboni driver. Whoever you're looking for, whatever skills you need to power through the rest of the year, ZipRecruiter is one of the best places to start your search because you can try

• 54:25Joe Rogan?

  it for free at ziprecruiter.com slash Rogan. And because ZipRecruiter helps sort through thousands of resumes and applications showing you the most qualified and interesting ones first. There's even an option for candidates to explain why they want the job. Let ZipRecruiter find the right people for your roles, seasonal or otherwise. Try it for free today at ziprecruiter.com slash Rogan. That's ziprecruiter.com slash Rogan. Meet your match on ZipRecruiter. So what evidence do we have that Sirhan Sirhan was working with Jolly West?

• 55:05Speaker 03

  There's not a lot. It's a lot of anecdotal stuff, but he met with this guy regularly. And I'm not an expert on the case. I wouldn't, I wouldn't consider myself an expert. But he met with this guy at the shooting range on a regular basis. And this guy would talk to him privately, whisper in his ear in the shooting range. We all know this is, this is from testimony. And later, when he was arrested after the shooting happened, he said, I thought I was at the shooting range. I thought I was shooting at a target, at a paper target. And he was on record saying this. And he has no memory of that actual event happening to this day. He went up for parole, I think a year or two ago. And man, all they did was ask him to kind of admit what you did and just say what you did.

• 55:50Speaker 03

  And he said, I still have no memory of this event. And he had to stay in prison. And RFK believes it too.

• 55:57Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 55:58Speaker 03

  And you've had RFK on.

• 56:00Joe Rogan?

  Uh huh. Um, so Sirhan Sirhan is meeting with this guy. Who is this guy?

• 56:06Speaker 03

  Nobody really knows. Nobody fully knows, but the guy was involved and connected to Joylan and they called him Radio Man. That's the only name that that people have used to identify this guy.

• 56:20Joe Rogan?

  And?

• 56:21Speaker 03

  He met Sirhan at a range and expressed like, we're both interested in shortwave radio stuff and all that kind of ham radio. And they connected over that initially. And then this guy somehow looped him into the situation he was in.

• 56:36Joe Rogan?

  So the MKUltra stuff, um, a lot of it was experimental, right? They didn't necessarily have proof that a lot of what they were trying to do was effective. They knew that they could experiment with LSD on people. That was Operation Midnight Climax where they took over the brothels, which is so wild. For people that don't know what this is, they took over brothels and they essentially had the prostitutes serve these Johns LSD without their knowledge. And then they observed them through two-way mirrors.

• 57:09Speaker 03

  Unbelievable.

• 57:09Joe Rogan?

  And filmed them. Yeah.

• 57:11Speaker 03

  And filmed how they would act.

• 57:12Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. So the CIA was running whorehouses. I don't even know if they had sex because they probably dosed these guys up with so much acid, they probably didn't want to. But they observed them and they did it for years. They also ran the, um, Haight-Ashbury Free Clinic, which is wild. And, um, until like, I think fairly recently, and there was a lot of hubbub about it after Tom O'Neill's book Chaos came out. And I think it's right after that, they closed the Haight-Ashbury Free Clinic.

• 57:41Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 57:42Joe Rogan?

  But the CIA was essentially a part of the Haight-Ashbury Free Clinic in the 1960s.

• 57:49Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 57:49Joe Rogan?

  And that's where the Manson family came out of.

• 57:52Speaker 03

  Yeah. And I'm, there's a lot of people, I don't, I'm not a researcher on this topic. I'm a researcher on the techniques.

• 57:58Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 57:59Speaker 03

  Um, but there's guys like, uh, Sidney Gottlieb was crazy. He was in, he was running the CIA. It was called OSS back then, Office of Special Services. And- It was crazy. They called him a cowboy, but they brought in all this LSD. There's a, uh, in Canada, uh, they were running, I think this was, man, I think it was in Montreal. I'm not, no, it was in Toronto. Um, Montauk Institute, is that right?

• 58:26Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 58:26Speaker 03

  Uh, where they were, they were doing things called psychic driving. They would keep people awake and it was like clockwork orange. And they're, they would hold their eyes open and just play these videos to kind of like, and train them and, and really just drive their brains. And these were people that checked into the hospital with like postpartum depression. And they started doing this shit on them.

• 58:49Joe Rogan?

  They just started experimenting on them.

• 58:51Speaker 03

  Yeah. And it, I mean, the Canadian government admitted it so much that they paid these people for damages. So, uh, just one woman's case that I can remember, I don't remember her name, but she went in for postpartum, I think. And she, she did the psychic driving. When she came out, she had no real memories anymore. She wet herself. She had to relearn how to walk and communicate socially. Uh, she had to relearn how to hold her pee in.

• 59:16Joe Rogan?

  How long was she there for?

• 59:17Speaker 03

  I think it was like a month and a half. Unbelievable.

• 59:23Joe Rogan?

  But I think back then they were trying to find a bunch of different methods of mind control, right? Like there's a very famous video from the 1950s of, uh, soldiers in the UK where they dosed them up with acid and you see them wandering around the woods, laughing and giggling, falling down.

• 59:40Speaker 03

  And we had just got those, the videos from the, the Korean war where the, the Korean prisoners were making these videos like, I realize now that America's a horrible country. I, I renounce everything. I hate America. This is, these are all the bad things they've done. And the, the guys in the United States are watching this shit going, holy shit. They've got some secret technology and we're behind. So it was like a psychological arms race.

• 1:00:05Speaker 03

  They just went berserk on this stuff. So they they figured out, or they figured that there's some kind of secret chemical or secret technique or recipe that these people are using that we haven't figured out yet. And it was it was a madhouse race to figure out what was going on with these prisoners in North Korea.

• 1:00:24Joe Rogan?

  What was going on? What were they doing to the prisoners?

• 1:00:26Speaker 03

  Depriving them of sleep. It was super basic stuff. They were depriving them of sleep, treating them really well. This this they're using these interrogation techniques that were developed by this German guy named Hans Scharf. And every interrogation system nowadays that's taught is a is a derivative of Hans Scharf's work. And funny enough, he's the most famous interrogator in history. And he was like the first guy that said, hey, what if we're not assholes? What if we're not just total assholes, these people, and take them out on walks, maybe give them a sandwich every once in a while? And the whole time pretend like we every piece of intelligence they give us, we pretend like we already knew it. And that was kind of his his premise, like, let's not be a dick. And he he got famous for that. So everything is based on his work now.

• 1:01:10Speaker 03

  And funny enough, you ever been to Disneyland?

• 1:01:13Joe Rogan?

  Sure.

• 1:01:13Speaker 03

  You you know, the huge mosaic that you walk through, it's a huge like tile mosaic thing at the very entrance of of Disneyland?

• 1:01:21Joe Rogan?

  I don't recall it. I probably wasn't paying attention.

• 1:01:24Speaker 03

  Hans Scharf made that.

• 1:01:25Joe Rogan?

  Oh, really?

• 1:01:26Speaker 03

  By hand, yeah.

• 1:01:27Joe Rogan?

  Whoa. Weird. How much time did that take?

• 1:01:29Speaker 03

  I don't know.

• 1:01:30Joe Rogan?

  How big is this thing?

• 1:01:31Speaker 03

  It's huge.

• 1:01:31Joe Rogan?

  See if you can find it, Jamie. How big is it? He made it by hand? Is he on acid?

• 1:01:38Speaker 03

  It had to be.

• 1:01:39Joe Rogan?

  That thing, wow. Left a permanent mark on Disney, a former Nazi interrogator. Fuck, like as if Disney doesn't have enough problems with Walt Disney being linked to anti-Semitism. The fact that they actually have a Nazi artist.

• 1:01:57Speaker 03

  If there was a competition where I said, Joe, I'll give me a million dollars if you can figure out what this Nazi interrogator did on the side.

• 1:02:04Joe Rogan?

  Not a chance I'd come up with that. That's crazy.

• 1:02:07Speaker 03

  And it's almost.

• 1:02:08Joe Rogan?

  How bizarre.

• 1:02:09Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's like a DMT.

• 1:02:13Speaker 03

  Kind of visual going on.

• 1:02:15Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's just weird in and of itself that he was working with these people. Like, how was Walt Disney connected to that guy?

• 1:02:22Speaker 03

  No idea. Um, no clue.

• 1:02:25Joe Rogan?

  That's not good. That doesn't do a lot to quell the rumors.

• 1:02:30Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:02:31Joe Rogan?

  So.

• 1:02:33Speaker 03

  I think it was Paperclip.

• 1:02:34Joe Rogan?

  So these, so, oh, Operation Paperclip. So these people that are attempt, is it, is there documentation that shows the effectiveness of certain techniques? Like, do we have any of their work? Like, the Jolly West, does, did he publish any things? Or did he make, like, leave behind documents explaining what worked and what didn't work?

• 1:02:58Speaker 03

  Yeah, some. Uh, but you know, this guy named, uh, I don't remember his first name, Church, got really pissed off about all the CIA stuff and

• 1:03:05Joe Rogan?

  The Church Committee stuff, yeah.

• 1:03:07Speaker 03

  He said, we're gonna get it all. And then the CIA launched a destruction order and said, we need to destroy. It was like Enron at the CIA then, papers getting shredded and all this stuff. And some of the documents survived the destruction order because they were in a dude's attic.

• 1:03:24Speaker 03

  Yeah, this guy's name, he was a professor in New York at Colgate University. And his name was Dr. George Estabrooks, and not many people talk about him. Uh, but he was big into it. Him and Edgar Hoover had a plan to hypnotize a German submarine captain, split his personality, which is not hard to do, and send him back home and have him torpedo his entire fleet inside of his own harbor.

• 1:03:55Speaker 03

  And I have all of those documents.

• 1:03:57Joe Rogan?

  So these professors and these scientists were working with the CIA while they were developing MKUltra? So they probably thought they were doing it for national security purposes?

• 1:04:08Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:04:08Joe Rogan?

  And so they were probably saying, look, North Korea's doing this, Germany's doing, all these countries are doing this, we need to do this as well?

• 1:04:16Speaker 03

  Yeah. I mean, they were at the bottom of Maslow's pyramid. You'll do anything. Our country's gonna go down.

• 1:04:22Joe Rogan?

  Did you read Chaos, the Tom O'Neill book?

• 1:04:24Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:04:25Joe Rogan?

  It's about the Manson family, how they did it with the Manson family. It's essentially, I mean, he lays out a very compelling case for the CIA not only training Manson, but supplying him with LSD and then getting him out of jail every time he got caught. And that it was done to change the perception of the anti-war movement. Like, the hippies were peace, love, and psychedelic music, and, you know, people were dropping out of society. And instead, the narrative now became, no, they are murderers and psychopaths, and they're gonna kill beautiful actresses and people in Hollywood.

• 1:05:03Speaker 03

  So they thought he would be like the vaccine for Timothy Leary and all the people?

• 1:05:08Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah, it's a good way to put it, yeah. That they took this guy who was a con man and had sort of a proclivity towards, you know, influencing people and being charismatic. And you ever heard his music?

• 1:05:21Speaker 03

  No, I didn't know he did music.

• 1:05:22Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, he actually recorded with Brian Wilson of the Beach Boys. And I think Brian Wilson and him, there was like a real problem because his career didn't take off, and like, he threatened him, became very like, very problematic, his relationship with Brian Wilson. But you could, there's a, so you can find the song, you can listen to it a little bit. The Manson, can we play this? Does someone own this? How's that work?

• 1:05:50Speaker 04

  That was something I've had, we hadn't talked, Guns N' Roses covered one of his songs, did you know that?

• 1:05:54Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah, yeah, we talked about that, I think we did. Yeah, yeah, but he recorded some songs, and, you know, they're not that bad.

• 1:06:08Speaker 03

  Is that him singing?

• 1:06:08Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:20Speaker 03

  It's not bad.

• 1:06:21Joe Rogan?

  It's not bad.

• 1:06:22Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's decent.

• 1:06:22Joe Rogan?

  It's not bad. It's like, it's an okay shitty song from the sixties.

• 1:06:27Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:06:27Joe Rogan?

  You know, it's not something you want to put on your Spotify playlist, but it's not, it's not bad.

• 1:06:31Speaker 03

  It's better than a third of guys that play at the bar.

• 1:06:35Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah. It's better than a third of the guys on Sixth Street in Austin, Texas.

• 1:06:42Joe Rogan?

  It's not bad. I mean, he was a charismatic person, right? And that's what you need to run a cult and that's what you need to be a good rock star.

• 1:06:49Speaker 03

  And a lot of psychedelics.

• 1:06:50Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. And he apparently wouldn't take them. He would give them to people and pretend to take them. And then he would use these methods to manipulate them while they're under. So like, he's sober and he's going through this CIA textbook of how to manipulate and control these people. And then he gets these people like Tex Watson and, you know, Squeaky Fromm and all these fucking psychopaths. And he threw this sort of indoctrination and bringing them into the family and, you know, they're staying with him for some, and then he's committing murders and crimes and he keeps getting out.

• 1:07:25Joe Rogan?

  He gets arrested and they let him out. And the sheriffs that let him out, they all have the same explanation. I was told it was above my pay grade and they just let him out. So the guy's violating parole and he's getting out, like multiple times.

• 1:07:38Speaker 03

  My god, I didn't know this.

• 1:07:39Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. And there's a real compelling case for Jolly West. First of all, there's anecdotal of it. Jolly, Jolly West visited him in jail. Um, and they think that that's when it all started.

• 1:07:53Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 1:07:54Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:54Speaker 03

  I don't doubt any of that.

• 1:07:55Joe Rogan?

  Makes sense because like, that's a really successful cult. Like, as far as like, uh, the historical footprint. You know, like, everybody knows about the Manson family. I mean, like, that worked. That scared the shit out of everybody. It was weird. Like, oh my god, what if your children joined the Manson family? Oh my god, my kids are vulnerable. What if they want to be peaceful, love and flower children? They get wrapped up in the family. And that's, it just sort of changed the tone in society. Um, with people, and it was also at the same time when they passed that sweeping Schedule One Psychedelics Act. Where they made everything illegal. It was all around the same time.

• 1:08:30Speaker 03

  And art goes to zero.

• 1:08:32Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, art goes into the toilet.

• 1:08:33Speaker 03

  Starts disappearing. Architecture.

• 1:08:36Joe Rogan?

  A lot of things went south. Yeah, car design. But the, um, the fact that there's real compelling evidence that this was the government. And that this is the government's response to this immense cultural change that took place between 1950 and 1960. And it's not like just guessing. It's like there's real programs that they were involved in that were absolutely doing that kind of work.

• 1:09:00Speaker 03

  A hundred percent.

• 1:09:01Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. And that's really crazy to think of.

• 1:09:04Speaker 03

  And I, and it, it gets deeper. Like there, there are step-by-step programs they have for creating a Manchurian candidate.

• 1:09:12Joe Rogan?

  Okay, like what's step one? How do you know when you can get a guy to be a Manchurian candidate? Can you do anybody? Or do you have to get a vulnerable guy?

• 1:09:19Speaker 03

  I don't want to say everything. I think some of this could be misused, but I mean.

• 1:09:24Joe Rogan?

  Well, I don't know if you know about Grok, but Grok's out there misusing information, so.

• 1:09:28Speaker 03

  All right, yeah, I'll just put it out there.

• 1:09:30Joe Rogan?

  He can get anything from that.

• 1:09:31Speaker 03

  So like you're a very social guy.

• 1:09:33Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 1:09:33Speaker 03

  And you've got lines in your forehead here from raising your eyebrows a lot. There's people that are your age that are not very socially connected to people that have the smooth foreheads.

• 1:09:42Joe Rogan?

  Ah, interesting.

• 1:09:44Speaker 03

  So if you're smiling a lot your whole life, you're going to develop these little crow's feet, and you'll do it by the age of 19. If you're a social, happy person, you'll see the crow's feet. If you're angry all the time, you're going to see this little muscle right here, the globella.

• 1:09:55Joe Rogan?

  The, I got that, that thing.

• 1:09:57Speaker 03

  Yeah, but yours, yeah, yours is not that pronounced. But whatever emotion we experience on a very, very regular basis, etches itself onto the face as a rule of thumb. Saying that this is science is, it's not. This is my observation. There's no study that I can send you. But we can see that. I mean, you could see somebody who's lived a super happy life, you there, they have these little smile lines around their eyes. Somebody who's raising their eyebrows a lot, this is our social, our forehead is a social billboard.

• 1:10:25Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:10:26Speaker 03

  So you're going to see those lines start coming on the face. But what if I told you make a skeptical facial expression?

• 1:10:33Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 1:10:33Speaker 03

  What would you do?

• 1:10:35Joe Rogan?

  If you asked me to be skeptical?

• 1:10:36Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:10:37Joe Rogan?

  This is my skeptical face.

• 1:10:39Speaker 03

  Okay, so like somebody's trying to feed you something, most people will kind of, these lower eyelids are gonna tighten up.

• 1:10:44Joe Rogan?

  They do that. I might do that too. I might do that.

• 1:10:47Speaker 03

  So you're like, ah.

• 1:10:48Joe Rogan?

  Most of the time though, I'm like, what?

• 1:10:50Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:10:50Joe Rogan?

  It's my what bitch face. What bitch?

• 1:10:52Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:10:53Joe Rogan?

  What?

• 1:10:56Speaker 03

  If I have somebody who's been, who is not skeptical ever in their life, they have the smoothest lower eyelids in the world.

• 1:11:04Joe Rogan?

  Huh.

• 1:11:05Speaker 03

  So to test this out, and this is not, this is anecdotal.

• 1:11:08Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 1:11:08Speaker 03

  But I gave it to five guys who are stage hypnotists. They're out of these comedy clubs.

• 1:11:14Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:11:14Speaker 03

  Every night, knocking people out and all that stuff. And I told them, test this theory over the course of five years. They all said it's a hundred percent accurate. Cause you know, like bring, they bring people up and some guy doesn't go all the way in, his hands are stuck together. He's like, alright sir, thanks, thanks for coming, go back to your seat.

• 1:11:30Joe Rogan?

  We should explain what we're talking about. There's um, comedy hypnotists. And um, if you don't know, and if you haven't seen it, you would think it's bullshit. But uh, I was very fortunate, when I was twenty-one, when I worked in Boston, there was a guy who was really good at it. He was an actual hypnotist, his name was Frank Santos. And he did this show, this comedy hypnotism show, I think it was every Monday night at uh, Stitches Comedy Club. And it was insane. He would have people go on stage, they thought they were having sex with Madonna, they thought they were in a rowboat, like, and the rowboat was gonna tip over. It was, then they had a dance, you know, they had a dance, and if they, they danced the best, they, they thought they were gonna win a million dollars, and it was weird.

• 1:12:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:12:07Joe Rogan?

  It was weird to watch because, and he could tell when someone was under and someone wasn't under. And it was weird. It was weird to watch because he, it was, I never believed in that. And I was like, well, I guess you have to be a dope. Like, maybe you just have to be a dope, and that's the kind of people that he picks. He just finds the dumb people. But a lot of the people I talked to afterwards, I was like, what happened? And they're like, I don't know. It's just like, he's snapping his fingers, and next thing you know, I'm fucking dancing. It was the weirdest thing, yeah, weirdest thing I've ever experienced in my life.

• 1:12:36Speaker 03

  So I'm a hypnotist, uh, certified hypnotist, and uh, I've, I've learned it just because of my brain obsession, and I didn't believe in it either. I had, I had zero belief that it was real. And I went to my first comedy hypnosis show like five years ago, this guy's name is Rich Guzzi, and It's it's real. Like, I saw this. I'm like, oh, my god. These people aren't just like.

• 1:12:58Joe Rogan?

  That's definitely real.

• 1:12:59Speaker 03

  And so if, um, damn, what were we talking about?

• 1:13:03Joe Rogan?

  Um, hypnosis?

• 1:13:05Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:13:06Joe Rogan?

  Um, we were talking about.

• 1:13:07Speaker 03

  So the suggestible.

• 1:13:09Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, suggestible people. Like, how do you pick someone to be a Manchurian candidate? Can you pick anybody?

• 1:13:15Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:13:16Joe Rogan?

  Or does it have to be a person that has, like, something off about them?

• 1:13:20Speaker 03

  They would, I don't think they have to have something that's off. You can pick a totally healthy person that's very highly suggestible. So I have a TV show coming out. It's fiction, fiction. And the bad guy in the book gets access to some of these techniques, and he doesn't know how to, they're not working. So he goes to these comedy hypnosis shows, and he just picks people that were called up on stage.

• 1:13:46Speaker 03

  And he wrecks their lives.

• 1:13:47Joe Rogan?

  Pre-select.

• 1:13:48Speaker 03

  Wrecks, yeah. So he gets someone else to figure out who's suggestible. So, and those people are highly suggestible, and they're always more open to fun. They're always better, you know, they live in front of their eyes a lot more. And so suggestibility doesn't mean stupid. It means that you're just more open to the things that are around you.

• 1:14:05Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:14:06Speaker 03

  And they're typically happier people.

• 1:14:08Joe Rogan?

  More suggestible people are typically happier people. That's interesting. Because they're just blissfully unaware?

• 1:14:15Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, it depends on if they're suggestible and addicted to, like, Instagram, horrifying stuff on Instagram, and they're watching it all the time.

• 1:14:23Joe Rogan?

  Oh.

• 1:14:24Speaker 03

  So they can get programmed easily for all these things. So this guy, George Esther Brooks, makes this formula to split the personality of an army officer, and they called him, uh, Smith. And you're gonna split this guy, give his alter ego a bunch of secrets to take across enemy lines, and then deliver these secrets that are in his head to this person that's on the other side of this thing. And in this paper, it's a hypothetical. It's written as a hypothetical. So they, they're gonna split this guy.

• 1:14:58Speaker 03

  With the goal being, he gets captured, somebody tortures him, they put a drill in his knee or something. This other personality won't come out because there's a secret word and an anchor, like they'll squeeze his arm and say, "moonlight," or something like that, and it'll turn this other guy on.

• 1:15:13Joe Rogan?

  Is that really possible to have like a partition in your brain where you keep other memories?

• 1:15:18Speaker 03

  Absolutely.

• 1:15:19Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 1:15:19Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:15:20Joe Rogan?

  This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Look, it's good to prepare for the future, but when you start overanalyzing what's happening around you, dreaming up every hypothetical situation of what could happen, that's when it gets dangerous. You can start to hyper-fixate and stress out and all over things that haven't even happened. That's no good for current you or future you. If you're struggling to stay in the present and out of your head, try talking with a quality therapist from BetterHelp. They have psychologists, family therapists, marriage counselors, social workers, and more.

• 1:16:00Joe Rogan?

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• 1:16:45Joe Rogan?

  It's something the body already recognizes, and it has hundreds of these specialized nutrients for gut stuff, immunity, metabolism, etc. I first noticed it working around training, especially workout recovery. Most stuff falls off, but I am still taking this. If you want to try, Armra is offering my listeners 30% off. Go to armra.com/rogan.

• 1:17:09Speaker 03

  It's not a partition. I mean, there's no physical modification.

• 1:17:12Joe Rogan?

  Well, of course, of course.

• 1:17:13Speaker 03

  That's happening.

• 1:17:14Joe Rogan?

  But I mean, like a partition, like there's something, there's another you in there.

• 1:17:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, and I'll tell you something scary when it comes to multiple personality stuff. If a suggest, a slightly suggestible, not even high, slightly suggestible person goes to a psychiatrist. And let's say I wanted to split somebody, I could make up a piece of paper that's got 10 questions on it. It's like, do you ever feel like you're at war with yourself? Like, one person wants to eat cake and the other one wants to eat broccoli? That's 100%, that's everybody.

• 1:17:44Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:17:45Speaker 03

  And then the next one is, do you ever feel like you're arguing with yourself about whether or not you should relax or worry about something? That's everybody. But it has a lot of these questions that talked about you having different parts. And then the psychiatrist takes this exam and he says, you know what? I'm looking, looking at all these numbers and you scored in the 99th percentile for multiple personality disorder. Have you ever felt like you're at war with a part of yourself? That's everybody. But now, he says, like, well, what, what does that part want? If I could just talk to that part directly. So now he starts having a conversation with this part. And now, then he says, well, it's not really nice for us to do that. Why don't we make a name for this part?

• 1:18:26Speaker 03

  They're almost done. That's almost the full creation. So that's called, they researched this in the 70s, called iatrogenic creation of dissociative identities.

• 1:18:36Joe Rogan?

  So if they wanted to do this and create a Manchurian candidate, there, there has to be like some proof that this is effective, right? So how would they, how would they, before they send someone out to do some assassination or something, how would they know that they got this guy on the program?

• 1:18:55Speaker 03

  Well, they tested it with hundreds of people first. And they, they would all use colors, so like Mrs. White was a subject or Mrs. Red, whatever. And they would hypnotize a woman while, while she's, and then, you know, split all this personality stuff and develop that partition. And then with her eyes open in one personality, she witnesses a, what she thinks is a real bomb, getting put into a briefcase with a little timer thing on it, like an old movie dynamite thing that you'd see in a cartoon or something like.

• 1:19:24Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 1:19:25Speaker 03

  Put into a briefcase. Zip that thing up and she's holding it and they're telling her it's gonna explode and then they change her personality to the other one. And she's on heart rate monitors and all this other stuff. And they, and this is a CIA document they released. And she's called Mrs. White in, in this document. There's many, many more. But the other personality's job is to not look in the briefcase because that personality doesn't know what's in it. And sit in this waiting room with this briefcase beside you. Heart rate doesn't go up.

• 1:19:57Speaker 03

  And then another time, they give somebody, they watch a gun being loaded. They split the personality and like do some kind of sleight of hand to unload the firearm. And then they're told to like pull this firearm out and go shoot this person in the face. And when the trigger is given to you, like a guy tapping his pencil or something. And they do it. And this is just hypnosis that caused them? They're not using any psychedelic drugs or psychotropic medicine? You don't need it. Nothing? Yeah. Wow. It's so, it's, it's easier than you think. For some people, right? High authority on one end of the person doing the program and high suggestibility on the other, then your skills don't need to be that good. You don't need to manufacture suggestibility.

• 1:20:40Speaker 03

  If you, if they say, here's this guy, I need to split this guy and he's not very suggestible, then your skills have to be high. But if I have high suggestibility in the target, high authority in the person doing the programming, I have ultimate results. And, and it's not just this. If I'm, if I'm a psychiatrist and I have high authority and I have a highly suggestible client, I can, I can change their life for the better with the exact same things. So it's not just Manchurian stuff. It's, it's, anybody trying to change another person needs that level of authority. And I need to, my goal as a doctor, psychiatrist, coach, whatever, is to raise that person's suggestibility so that my suggestions can change their life. Will you then let them be aware of what you did and how you did it and what the pathway is?

• 1:21:26Speaker 03

  Uh, if it's, if I'm helping someone? Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. That's gotta be a mind fuck for them. You know Roy Jones? Junior, the boxer? Of course. Yeah, he's a friend of mine. Oh, I love that dude. Yeah, me too. Um, and man, he's been through a rough year. I don't know if you've heard or anything. No. He's been through a lot this year. What, what happened? He lost his son. Oh, I didn't know that at all. Yeah, I think he was, I think he was twenty one. Oh, that's terrible. But Roy called me one day. I went down there to train Roy at Roy's house. And he called me one day and he's like, hey, man, can you do this split personality thing on a fighter? And I was like, oh, yeah. And as I'm telling him, yeah, I was like, I've never done this. I, I didn't know if I could, but I was like, yeah, I'll, I'll get it done.

• 1:22:09Speaker 03

  He's like, I've got this guy going into a fight, uh, in two days. It's in Vegas. Can you fly out and, and do the, do your work on this guy? So I essentially give him an alter ego, but it's not like created through massive trauma or anything like that. It's kind of a fabricated, we use a little bit of like, um, a little bit of simulated trauma to make this thing happen. The dissociation part where I've kind of separate from myself. And this guy had like the best fight of his life and this alter, alter ego, you can ask Roy. Uh, I told him not to get gassed out where you're not going to get gassed out or run out of air. Like you're going to always feel like you're satiated, even if you're not, you're going to stay up and keep going.

• 1:22:51Speaker 03

  And the second is you're not going to feel any pain and you're going to be pure aggression and strategy and all this. Roy gave me this list of stuff. So this guy, this is a young fighter. He's like twenty eight. I programmed him. It took me four, forty eight hours total. Not with him, but like two days, over the course of two days, I programmed him. And then he goes up, uh, what's the thing where that they take a picture looking at each other, whatever that's called? Face off? Yeah. So they go, they go to do that and his wife is off camera and somehow this being near the opponent turned on this thing. And he just looks over at his wife, like just a, uh, like a glance at his wife. And she picked their kid up like there was a, a murderer in their house.

• 1:23:36Speaker 03

  And they moved to another hotel temporarily. She's like, that's not my husband. But we, we fix it to where we can turn it on and off anytime, but it scared her because it's like that little alter part of that guy came on and. Looked at his wife and she did not recognize.

• 1:23:53Joe Rogan?

  You know, Roy Jones Jr. Had an alter ego.

• 1:23:56Speaker 03

  Really?

• 1:23:56Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:57Speaker 03

  He didn't tell me about it.

• 1:23:57Joe Rogan?

  Called himself RJ. He had Roy Jones.

• 1:24:00Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:24:01Joe Rogan?

  And then RJ. RJ is when there's real problems. When, when, when RJ's out, you got real problems.

• 1:24:08Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:24:09Joe Rogan?

  And when he fought Montel Griffin, you know, he had his first fight with Montel Griffin and Montel won by disqualification. Do you know that fight?

• 1:24:18Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:24:18Joe Rogan?

  Uh, so, um.

• 1:24:20Speaker 03

  I'm ignorant about that world.

• 1:24:22Joe Rogan?

  I think it was a late punch or something happened. He, he might have been swinging when he went down and he hit him while he's going down or while he was down already. I don't remember exactly what happened, but I remember it was a disqualification. And then Roy Jones is like, RJ's coming out.

• 1:24:39Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 1:24:39Joe Rogan?

  And then in the second fight, it was just an obliteration. He just destroyed him quickly.

• 1:24:44Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:24:44Joe Rogan?

  And when you would see Roy Jones, you know, like in his very best. He was like, first of all, he's probably the fastest super middleweight in the history of the sport and even light heavyweight. He was so fast, it didn't even make sense. He, there's some one twos that he threw that you watch to this day and you swear they're sped up.

• 1:25:08Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:25:08Joe Rogan?

  You're like, no one moves that fast. He didn't even have a jab. He would throw a left hook off the lead hand. He did everything different. He fucked everybody up because you didn't know what to do with it.

• 1:25:20Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:25:20Joe Rogan?

  Everything was off. It was just different and he can move faster than everybody.

• 1:25:24Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:25:25Joe Rogan?

  But.

• 1:25:26Speaker 03

  I remember him showing me, because I'm ignorant about the, the fighting world and all that, but he showed me how those punches look from a receiving end. Those like that one, two, and then a couple more after that. It was terrifying.

• 1:25:37Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah, they're horrifying. You can't move quick enough.

• 1:25:39Speaker 03

  You know, like you're, it's done.

• 1:25:41Joe Rogan?

  Especially if you don't know what's happening. Like your, your mind has to, your body has to be conditioned to movements. Like you see a movement, you react, you know, like if he's doing this, a punch is coming that way. I'm turning this way. I'm turning that way. If something's coming that way. If he throws the left, the right is coming behind it. I'm ducking under. If you don't know what those patterns are and, and then even if you do, Roy would move so fast. It would fuck up your whole understanding of distance and timing. Everything would be off.

• 1:26:14Speaker 03

  He is. Yeah.

• 1:26:15Joe Rogan?

  He was special.

• 1:26:16Speaker 03

  It makes so much sense.

• 1:26:17Joe Rogan?

  I see. In his prime, he was like unstoppable. He was, it was like every fight was an execution. He played a fucking full basketball game one day and then defended his title. Played a basketball game and then after the basketball game, running around the court, played, played well, and then defended his title. Just because he was like, he was having fun, he was playing with his food.

• 1:26:37Speaker 03

  Yeah, he's a machine. He was truly.

• 1:26:40Joe Rogan?

  He was so good, man.

• 1:26:41Speaker 03

  And one of the, one of the nicest people, uh, I've ever met.

• 1:26:45Joe Rogan?

  Great guy. Yeah, great guy. Great guy. And great commentator as well. He's very good at boxing commentary. But, um, yeah, he had a split personality. Do you know the Mike Tyson story?

• 1:26:54Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:26:54Joe Rogan?

  So Mike Tyson, when he was 13, so Mike Tyson had a terrible childhood, you know, Bedford-Stuyvesant, Brooklyn, it was just like horrible neighborhood, crime, and, you know, in and out of detention centers. He gets adopted when he's 13 by this guy, Customato, who is one of the greatest trainers of all time, but also a hypnotist. So Customato starts hypnotizing Mike Tyson when he's 13 years old.

• 1:27:19Speaker 03

  Oh, my gosh.

• 1:27:20Joe Rogan?

  And when he tells, talks him about fighting, he's like, "You don't exist. Only the task." So all of the things like, "What? Maybe I'm not good enough. Maybe I'm not, maybe I'm this, maybe I'm that, maybe I'm a fraud, maybe..." "You don't exist. It's only the task and you are going to be the greatest heavyweight champion of all time."

• 1:27:41Speaker 03

  That is such a great.

• 1:27:43Joe Rogan?

  And if Cuss didn't die, he pro, I mean, he had an unbelievable, spectacular career, but you can tell the difference when Cuss is gone. He doesn't have that mentor anymore, doesn't have that leadership, and eventually it kind of falls apart for him. You know, he wins the title when Cuss had already been dead, but then defends the title. I mean, he was just unstoppable. He was so much better than everybody else, but slowly but surely, up until the Buster Douglas fight, you see like this deterioration of his discipline and he's sort of just resting on his laurels and fear. Everyone was so terrified of him. By the time they got into the ring, they were already beaten.

• 1:28:21Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:28:22Joe Rogan?

  You'd see the look in their eye when he was staring at you. They'd be like, "Oh, fuck." And so.

• 1:28:28Joe Rogan?

  If Cuss was still alive, like who knows what he would have accomplished? Who knows? He probably would have never lost. If Cuss stayed alive, if Cuss was like slightly younger and was able to make it with him deep into his career, who knows?

• 1:28:41Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:28:42Joe Rogan?

  But hypnotized him when he was 13.

• 1:28:45Speaker 03

  And that's early. I mean, you're still getting your formative identity and beliefs about the world.

• 1:28:50Joe Rogan?

  Also, you all of a sudden have love in your life. All of a sudden you have respect. All of a sudden you have people who appreciate you for what you do. And so you really like dig into this thing. So Jim Jacobs was his manager and Jim Jacobs is also an archivist, archivist. He, he has the greatest archive of boxing films in the world, at the time. So he's got all the old fighters, Stanley Ketchell and Jack Johnson and Jack Dempsey. And so Mike Tyson, when he's not training, is watching the greatest boxers of all time on film, which nobody has access to. Most boxers, you are as good as the gym you train in. You know, if you're training in a gym with Tommy Hearns, like damn, he is so good.

• 1:29:33Joe Rogan?

  And you learn by being around him and you see what he does and you try to emulate it. But the level of the best guys in the gym, it's always very top down. The, the best gyms always have some fucking assassins at the very top. World champions, top of the food chain guys. And everybody else sort of like follows their beat and you absorb. Well, Mike Tyson was absorbing from everybody. He was absorbing from Joe Lewis and Sugar Ray Robinson. He was watching everybody. Archie Moore, he was watching all the greats. Just hours and hours and hours and hours of studying films.

• 1:30:07Speaker 03

  So it was proximity, so.

• 1:30:09Joe Rogan?

  It was everything.

• 1:30:10Speaker 03

  He got proximity and like exposure to all that and nobody else.

• 1:30:13Joe Rogan?

  And genetics. He was, when he was 13 years old, he was 190 pounds.

• 1:30:19Speaker 03

  I had no idea.

• 1:30:19Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah, Teddy Atlas used to take him to what they call smokers. Smokers are like these amateur sort of unregulated fights. And they would say, how old is he? And you'd say thirteen, like bullshit. And you're like, how old do you think he is? He's like sixteen. And so they put him in with sixteen year olds and he knocked them out.

• 1:30:36Speaker 03

  Oh, my God.

• 1:30:37Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, he was knocking everybody out. He was just a genetic freak on top of being very intelligent, but never really applied to anything other than boxing. Fully absorbed with boxing, has a trainer who's one of the greatest trainers of all time, trained Floyd Patterson, Jose Torres. I mean, Custom Auto was a legendary world champion trainer. And then on top of that, he's a hypnotist. So he's like deeply involved in the psyche of his fighters. And he's a mentor figure to this kid. And so you have that combination of things and you have that guy, the greatest. Mike Tyson at seventy-nine at the age of thirteen. That's him at thirteen.

• 1:31:13Speaker 03

  Oh, my gosh.

• 1:31:14Joe Rogan?

  Fuck. Look at the size of his biceps. Bro, look at his biceps. Look at his fucking right bicep at thirteen. That is insane. I know Muhammad Ali above that is twelve years old and Tyson's thirteen and built like a tank. That is so crazy.

• 1:31:30Speaker 03

  He's a monster.

• 1:31:31Joe Rogan?

  Oh, he was, everything was perfect. It was the perfect storm. Intelligence, genetics, training, proximity. And, you know, he was around great fighters as well. You know, he was, he was in gyms in the Catskills with some of the best fighters of his era.

• 1:31:47Speaker 03

  Does he credit like psychedelics for his, like this transformation that he's made?

• 1:31:53Joe Rogan?

  He does talk about it. Yeah, he does talk about it. I'm sure it had an impact on him. That and marijuana, both those things had an impact on him.

• 1:32:00Speaker 03

  I mean, he's gotta be, not, I mean, just fighting for that long, your brain's going through so much and you've got to, you've got to, you've got to come back to earth. It's like a dude coming off a five-year deployment or something over in the Middle East. Like you've got to reestablish yourself back to a normal.

• 1:32:17Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 1:32:18Speaker 03

  And I've heard him just talk about it once where he talked about, I think it was just psilocybin. But that is, that saved me from a lot of really crazy stuff as well. But I think he is just a guy who knows, I would be terrified, like if I was a cop and pulled him over and he said, go ahead and get back in your car, I'd be like, okay.

• 1:32:39Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 1:32:40Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:32:43Joe Rogan?

  When I first met him, well, I met him before this, but when he first did the podcast, he was not working out at all and he was smoking weed all day long. And he was like silly and peaceful and relaxed. And he said he didn't want to work out because if he did, he would reignite his ego. And he didn't want to do that. And then the second time I saw him was when he was preparing for the Roy Jones fight. And he had lost like a hundred pounds. He was shredded and like all his muscles were just fucking big and thick and puffed up. And he looked terrifying. It was like, and Jamie and I were like, that's a totally different person. Like from, from the first episode he did to the second episode, completely different person because he was Mike Tyson again. He was getting ready to fight again and he was fucking terrifying.

• 1:33:27Joe Rogan?

  And this is Mike Tyson again at 50, right? So imagine what Mike Tyson at 22 was like. I mean, it had to be fucking terrifying.

• 1:33:39Speaker 03

  I bet he won so many fights just psychologically.

• 1:33:42Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:33:42Speaker 03

  Standing across the ring, looking at that guy, even if I was a good fighter.

• 1:33:46Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:47Speaker 03

  I'm like, man.

• 1:33:48Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, everybody was terrified of him.

• 1:33:50Speaker 03

  You're standing like, why am I doing?

• 1:33:51Joe Rogan?

  This episode is brought to you by Chime. And I know people don't usually get excited about banking, but Chime is doing something different and it's worth paying attention to. In a recent survey, they ranked the number one choice for new checking accounts in America. That means real people, millions of them are choosing this over traditional banks. That's because banking at Chime is fee free. No monthly fees, no overdraft fees and thousands of fee free ATMs. But here's the real kicker. If you get their Chime card, it gives you 5% cash back on a category you actually pick yourself. Your savings rate crazy high. It's nine times the national average. They're calling it the most rewarding way to bank. Go to chime.com/rogan.

• 1:34:36Joe Rogan?

  Takes a few minutes to sign up. Chime is a fintech, not a bank, banking services and Chime card provided by Chime's bank partners. Terms and limits apply. Go to chime.com/disclosures for more details.

• 1:34:51Joe Rogan?

  This episode is brought to you by Squarespace. If you're thinking about building a website, you should try Squarespace. I know because I use it. That's right, JoeRogan.com is powered by Squarespace. It has all the features that you need to create a standout website like an AI-enhanced website builder, SEO optimization tools, and seamless checkouts with mobile pay links. Head to Squarespace.com/Rogan for a free trial. And when you are ready to launch, use the offer code ROGEN to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. Uh huh, yeah, he had an aura, and all the greats have auras like that.

• 1:35:33Joe Rogan?

  Roy Jones had that aura in his prime too, where you knew the fighter that he was facing was fucked. And it, you know, eventually catches up with you, and it did with Mike, with Buster Douglas, and then Evander Holyfield and some of the other fights after that. But, you know, when a fighter has that aura, it takes a very special, confident person to overcome that. And that's why winning a title is so difficult. It's so difficult to beat a champion. There's the psychological, especially if you've never had a championship fight, and you're fighting someone like, you know, Anderson Silva in his prime, who had just been dominating his division. This is your first world title fight, and you're fighting a guy who's been there, done that eight times, destroyed everybody in his path, and he's looking at you at the

• 1:36:17Joe Rogan?

  weigh-ins, he's not even remotely nervous about you, and he's like smiling at you, and he thinks he's just gonna tear you apart. Yeah. And it takes a person of very special psychological... You have to have a fortitude. Your mind has to be so fucking strong to be able to handle that moment, because it's not just the physical fight of skills, it's also the moment. Yeah. And the moment is overwhelming. It's so different than everything else. You know, you want to talk about novelty. The novelty of a world title fight, I mean, just imagine someone backstage at the UFC... You, uh, there's four fights before you get on. And you're watching people get knocked out and head kicked.

• 1:37:01Joe Rogan?

  You're in the green room and you're in the, the, what, the locker rooms, rather. And you're warming up, you're practicing, you're hitting mitts. And you're thinking, what the fuck am I getting myself into? Like, what am I doing? And then you see Anderson Silva warming up. You're like, oh, Jesus Christ. What am I doing? Like, you have to have a, a very special mind to be able to overcome that. And I think it's one of the reasons why a lot of fighters today are seeking out mental coaches. It's very common. And I first found about it through my friend, Vinnie Shorman, who has worked with a lot of MMA fighters and a lot of world championship kickboxers as well. And, and helped a lot of people with that. But there's quite a few different fighters now that utilize mental coaches

• 1:37:43Joe Rogan?

  and some sort of visualization coaching. And then where they have very specific goals in terms of how they want to walk out, what they want, they want to see the whole thing. There's guys, like John Jones would famously like walk out before the fight. And he would move around the octagon. He would like soak it all up in.

• 1:38:06Speaker 03

  Empty, empty stadium.

• 1:38:07Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, when no one was there, before everything. And we would get footage of it sometimes of him just moving around. You know, he'd move around with his coaches. He just wanted to feel the floor under his feet. He wanted to see the cage. He wanted to get himself in that mindset. And, you know, John is, if not the greatest, one of the absolute greatest of all time. And, you know, he was meticulous and still is meticulous about his preparation. Meticulous about watching tape and footage and understanding who he's fighting, what their moves are, what they do, what their tells, what the mistakes they make. And then visualizing success.

• 1:38:42Speaker 03

  I think the visualization is so powerful.

• 1:38:45Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:38:45Speaker 03

  Because he's winning. Fifty, a hundred times, he's winning that fight before it starts. And he's winning it so many times, and he's, and just going in the ring. You're programming that mammalian brain with the smells and the sounds and just the feel of everything.

• 1:39:01Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:39:01Speaker 03

  And it's so, it's such a great practice to establish for anybody.

• 1:39:06Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, as many bases as you can cover, right? Like, the physical skills of fighting are so difficult to master. And you get to a certain level of ability where you do have confidence. You know, you do think you are the man and you could just dominate everybody. But the problem is when you're facing someone else who's also the man. Like, he thinks he's the man too, and then you start questioning, maybe I'm, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe what's happened to my opponents is now gonna happen to me. Maybe I'm gonna get mine now, fuck. And, you know, you're, the doubts start creeping into your mind. And then, unless you have some sort of a system of how to organize your mind and how to mitigate all this anxiety and stress and how to think about things

• 1:39:47Joe Rogan?

  and concentrate only on the positive things, only on what you are going to do. And not all that bullshit.

• 1:39:55Speaker 03

  And I think that's it, it's about rehearsal. And it's the way that C E, top CEOs do it and everybody, is they're rehearsing all of the, the, the good things happening in their head all the time. They have just this general belief that things are gonna be great. And the guy that's psyching himself out before a fight, he's, he's, maybe it only takes a second, but he's rehearsing a loss. He's rehearsing these little bad things happening. And the, the brain, the mammalian brain doesn't speak English at all. So it's saying, okay, this is, like, we're preparing for this, I'm gonna try to make this happen. It's the same thing when you're like, searching for a car on the internet and you finally go buy it after a month, and you see it all over the place. Your brain, you're telling your brain what to search for and seek out. It's so true. And that's our reticular formation inside of our brain.

• 1:40:40Speaker 03

  So with these fighters, if I'm, if I'm rehearsing on purpose, then I'm more likely to win. If I'm rehearsing on accident by worrying, worrying is rehearsal.

• 1:40:50Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 1:40:51Speaker 03

  Um, and, and that's one of the things I talk to Roy about with his guys that he trains. If I worry once, it's, that's rehearsal. That's a, that's a one rehearsal practice checked off the box. And I gotta do one more to, to cancel that out. It's mental rehearsal.

• 1:41:05Joe Rogan?

  Rehearsal, that's interesting.

• 1:41:08Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and just be, you have to also be aware of things that can go wrong if you do drop your hands. Can go wrong if you do not move your head off the center line. If there's something that you do that's a mistake. There's real consequences. So you probably, a little bit of fear is very good for you. Like, one of the things that fighters talk about is having flat performances because they came in too confident. And then they start getting beat up and they can't shift gears. Like they can't get to the fear part. Because the fear is kind of over once you start fighting. Like when I was competing, I was always terrified up until the fight. But when the fight is happening, you're not scared at all. You're just reacting, you're moving and you know, you're just, I mean, you probably get scared if you're getting hurt.

• 1:41:50Joe Rogan?

  If you're getting battered, you know, and you're, you're against the ropes and you're getting fucked up. But for the most part, you're not scared. You're just, you're in this zen state. You're in this state of just letting your training do the work. But the lead up to it, the lead up to it is where everybody freaks out. That's, that's where the real fear comes. And it's just mitigating that until you can get in there. And then once you get in there, you're really not scared.

• 1:42:16Speaker 03

  That makes perfect sense. It's the same thing in the military. Like if you're getting into a gunfight or something, there's fear before and not during. And that's the same thing. And if, so if you're-

• 1:42:26Joe Rogan?

  I would imagine there'd be fear during as well though, no?

• 1:42:28Speaker 03

  I've, I mean, I, I want to speak for myself. I've talked to a lot of dudes that just kind of everything goes quiet. It's a mental stillness. Because we go through a lot of training that, that gets you ready for a lot of those scenarios. I could, man, I could show you a video after this. Um, that'll be fun. But they have this program where like they put a black bag over your head. And there's a bunch of dudes that are mostly like retired operators, dudes. And every few minutes, this black bag that you can't see through, and it's not like a plastic bag, it's just like a hood. And you're sitting there just holding your gun. And they rip this bag off your head. There's a circle on the ground that's like five feet wide. And you can't step out of it. You can't take a knee. Those are the only rules. And for these-

• 1:43:13Speaker 03

  There's a scenario playing out in front of you. Every time the bag comes off and these guys are wearing like Arabic style clothes and the Middle Eastern style clothes, they're blaring crazy music and explosions in your head while the hood is on. The hood gets ripped off, it's like forty seconds long, you don't know what to expect, you have no idea what's gonna happen. And these guys, they're wearing little masks and you have simulated ammunition. Some will try to kill you, some might run up to you really fast and ask for directions. And you never know what's gonna happen. And for these dudes to go down, they're all gonna try to shoot you first. If they shoot you first, you start the day over. And it's like eleven hours. It's a grueling process.

• 1:43:58Speaker 03

  Huh. So, they keep- This is, what is the purpose of this? Like, what are they trying to achieve? There's a few things, your aim, like, I need to get better at target acquisition. So like, I do something here and I know something over here and I'm gonna rotate over to this, this next thing that I have to deal with. Mm-hmm. And after days and days and days of this, you get very good. Like, it's nowhere near that level, but you walk out of there feeling like, you know, I'm John Wick now. But they get you to a level, and the instructors don't go down unless you hit them twice in the base of the nose. So like, you can shoot them in the chest and they'll slow down or they'll take a knee, but-

• 1:44:43Speaker 03

  What happened? My headphone stopped working.

• 1:44:47Speaker 03

  Really? Yeah, they're good now. Okay. So like, they'll slow down, but you hit them twice in the base of the nose and they go down. They'll drop. And that's like the brainstem, you have to sever the brainstem. And it's days and days and days of this, and you can't step out of the circle and- What is the simulated ammunition? Like, what are they using? It's a real bullet, inside of a real gun, so it's like the Beretta I deployed with. But you take the barrel out and you put in this smaller barrel, and it's a real bullet, but the tip of it's like wax and it's filled with like hot pink laundry detergent, essentially. Like a little paintball, but it's inside of a bullet, inside of a real bullet.

• 1:45:31Speaker 03

  You're gonna have a problem with that fucking watch. I know.

• 1:45:35Speaker 03

  It's on airplane mode.

• 1:45:36Joe Rogan?

  I had one of those once. I wore it for one day and it was buzzing during a podcast. I was like, alright, fuck this thing.

• 1:45:44Joe Rogan?

  Now it's gonna go off over there and you're gonna have to reach for it. So these are the bullets that they use?

• 1:45:50Joe Rogan?

  Paintball training bullets. And so-

• 1:45:52Speaker 03

  Look at that, Joe.

• 1:45:53Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, airplane mode. Maybe it's someone important calling you. Isn't there like people on your list?

• 1:45:57Speaker 03

  Nope.

• 1:45:59Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's it.

• 1:46:01Joe Rogan?

  So those things, they just splatter on your face? Is that what it is?

• 1:46:04Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, the guys are wearing masks and stuff like that.

• 1:46:07Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:46:07Speaker 03

  And, uh-

• 1:46:08Joe Rogan?

  But if it hits that area, then you go down?

• 1:46:11Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:46:12Joe Rogan?

  Or you're done?

• 1:46:14Speaker 03

  And then it's a lot of critical judgment and decision making. There might be a guy that walks up to you and he's holding an axe over his shoulder, but it's just like a farmer. Cause maybe the younger guys are like, oh, there's a dude, there's a weapon, he needs to die.

• 1:46:26Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:46:27Speaker 03

  Uh, but he has no intent, right? So you can't just shoot people because they have a weapon over there. So it's a really good training for judgment and that's that fast decision making.

• 1:46:40Joe Rogan?

  Okay. And so this is just to sort of condition them so that when a battle takes place, it'll be sort of automatic to fall into these patterns that they've learned?

• 1:46:50Speaker 03

  Yeah. And that they may say this in other parts of the world, but they say you're gonna default to the lowest level of your training. The lowest level that you've repeated thousands of times.

• 1:46:59Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:46:59Speaker 03

  And that'll be your default.

• 1:47:01Joe Rogan?

  So...

• 1:47:04Joe Rogan?

  It's interesting that you worked with one fighter. Have you worked with any fighters since then?

• 1:47:09Speaker 03

  Uh, two other guys I've worked with, just through Roy. I mostly work with CEOs that need to need a break from a bunch of limiting crap that's holding them back or business people, but two other fighters that I've worked with. And you can watch this guy's fight. He's not gassed out. He's sitting in the corner and the other guy's just heaving and you could, his chest is still. And you could see, the announcers even say it in the fight, that he's not making any facial expressions. Um, man, I can't remember.

• 1:47:37Speaker 03

  Hold on. I'll find it.

• 1:47:39Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 1:47:39Speaker 03

  Um. But it's on YouTube. The fight is on YouTube. I'll, I'll bring it up. Uh, Bryant, uh, Perella. Bryant Perella is his name.

• 1:47:49Joe Rogan?

  Jamie will find it.

• 1:47:50Speaker 03

  And the announcers are even saying he's not making facial expressions when he's getting hit. It's like Terminator. His face was just completely straight.

• 1:47:59Joe Rogan?

  There's a guy that, uh, was one of the greatest heavyweights of all time out of Russia. His name is Fedor Emelianenko. And he fought in Pride, which was this enormous organization in Japan in the early 2000s. And he was famous for having like a completely stoic expression no matter what happened.

• 1:48:15Speaker 03

  That'd be terrifying to me.

• 1:48:16Joe Rogan?

  Oh, he was the most terrifying. And, cause he was so skillful as well, but I wonder like what they taught him in terms of like, how to keep your, your mind in check in the middle of chaos. Because I mean, he'd be in these fucking wars and just his facial expression never changed. There's this famous fight with him and Kevin Randleman. Kevin Randleman was this elite American wrestler. And he suplexes Fedor on his head, like on his neck and on his head. And his expression never changes. In the middle of getting thrown through the air, slammed onto the ground, then moments later, he catches Kevin in an armbar.

• 1:48:56Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 1:48:56Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it was crazy.

• 1:48:57Speaker 03

  He's just like.

• 1:48:58Joe Rogan?

  Never changed. Never changed his face. Just calm. You know, he might be having a cup of coffee at a local cafe.

• 1:49:05Speaker 03

  I bet it was what, what you were talking about earlier. Well, like you don't exist. You don't exist. And it was what I'm teaching to these fighters and what I'm, I'm programming these fighters to do is, is essentially the same thing. You don't exist. There's another part of you that's going to take over for this, this entire experience.

• 1:49:21Joe Rogan?

  And this part of you is more than capable. So, did you talk to Roy about like what fighters experience, like what to work on?

• 1:49:31Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:49:32Joe Rogan?

  So what did Roy tell you?

• 1:49:34Speaker 03

  Roy said that the three most important things are, I don't want him to, to get gassed out too fast, which is like when, maybe that's a common term.

• 1:49:42Joe Rogan?

  A lot of it, yeah. A lot of his anxiety, adrenaline dump.

• 1:49:45Speaker 03

  Yeah. And feeling like you're running out of air.

• 1:49:47Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:49:48Speaker 03

  And I want him to be immune to pain, which is obviously not completely possible. We can get close, like to him feeling as so confident that the pain doesn't matter. And he wanted him to be completely hell-bent on destroying this other guy. Those are like Roy's three things. And he said, you add in whatever you want. So I added in some, because a couple of those things are symptoms. So I wanted to figure out what's the root cause of this. Like if I'm just hell-bent on taking this guy out, the root cause of that might be anger and just being extremely mad and angry at somebody.

• 1:50:28Joe Rogan?

  Generally speaking, they tell you that that's not a good emotion to take inside the ring because anger is an emotion and emotions will cause you to, like Yuri Prochaska says, go into another line. So instead of doing what you should be doing in the flow, you might push things. So you might be a little too aggressive and open yourself up to counters. You might not be defensively responsible because you're really only thinking about offense, whereas you have to kind of be in the zone of both things at the same time and knowing when to attack and when not to attack.

• 1:51:04Speaker 03

  That makes a lot of sense.

• 1:51:05Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, a lot of people don't think, but then there's fighters that fight angry.

• 1:51:09Speaker 03

  If you know a guy.

• 1:51:10Joe Rogan?

  And they're very successful.

• 1:51:10Speaker 03

  If you know a guy, I'll do it for you.

• 1:51:13Joe Rogan?

  It'd be interesting.

• 1:51:13Speaker 03

  Anybody you want.

• 1:51:14Joe Rogan?

  Well, there's a lot of UFC fighters probably listening to this right now, like, me? Like, I'm sure you'll get people that are interested in it because everyone knows that there is a huge psychological aspect to fighting. Everyone knows that. No one denies that. No one thinks you could just be skillful and just be, you know, and everyone knows there's a psychological aspect of it that's very, very, very important. And if you could do something that would strengthen that, the same way you do something that strengthens your cardio or strengthens your power, you would think that that would be very beneficial.

• 1:51:45Speaker 03

  Huge advantage. Tiger Woods had an on-call.

• 1:51:48Joe Rogan?

  Did he?

• 1:51:48Speaker 03

  Hypnotist, yeah.

• 1:51:49Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 1:51:50Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:51:50Joe Rogan?

  An on-call hypnotist?

• 1:51:51Speaker 03

  Yeah, like a guy that I think traveled with them many, many times. So he had a regular hypnotist that he saw. And I think it's a tremendous advantage. And if you can get it to a point, so like I had been training all these CEOs.

• 1:52:08Speaker 03

  Couple of politicians that I've worked with that needed this breakthrough and of confidence and authority and all this other stuff. So I always had this way to like turn this thing on. There was like an on switch to to activate this little alter ego thing. And for the all the fighters, I had to figure out something else because they couldn't use their hands. Their hands are all, you know, gloved up and taped up and all that, all that kind of stuff. But I figured out with the fighter, like, there was so much, it was almost like a little psychopath when this thing came on. And you can see it in in Bryant's face on this fight. And

• 1:52:43Joe Rogan?

  You got footage of him, Jamie?

• 1:52:44Speaker 04

  I was looking at Tigers. I got locked into that. I found the guy, but.

• 1:52:49Speaker 03

  Oh, you found who it was?

• 1:52:51Speaker 04

  Jay Brunson is his name.

• 1:52:52Joe Rogan?

  Jay Brunson's?

• 1:52:53Speaker 04

  It was when he was younger. He also caddied for him, so he was around with him all the time.

• 1:52:58Joe Rogan?

  Oh, Tiger Woods. We were talking about Roy Jones Jr.'s fighter.

• 1:53:02Speaker 03

  That's like having your corner man, your hypnotist.

• 1:53:04Joe Rogan?

  That is kind of crazy.

• 1:53:05Speaker 03

  Every time in the corner, all right, and sleep.

• 1:53:06Joe Rogan?

  So he traveled around with him all the time. Well, I would imagine, look, if you're doing something like golf, where there's millions of dollars on the line, and that is clearly a very, very much a mental game.

• 1:53:17Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:53:18Joe Rogan?

  There's a lot of thinking and calculating and being in the zone in golf. That totally makes sense that that'd be effective.

• 1:53:25Speaker 03

  And it's so different. It's so similar, though, to fighting, where it's a very mental game. Like, can I stay here? Can I can I be present? Can I figure out what's going on? And keep in mind, I know nothing about fighting.

• 1:53:38Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:53:39Speaker 03

  But I know a whole lot about the brain and how and how people work.

• 1:53:42Joe Rogan?

  You know, it's interesting, because what you're saying kind of applies to stand up comedy, too. Because I have, we've talked about this a bunch of times in the green room of the club. I think stand up comedy is hypnosis. I think it's kind of a mass hypnosis. Because I feel hypnotized when someone's really good. When someone, this is not even as a person who's who does it, but as an audience member, when someone's really good, I'm allowing them to kind of think for me. You know, I'm I'm going with the way they think about things. When someone's really funny and I really enjoy watching them, I'm in their mind. They're they're taking me on a journey. They're like holding my hand and telling me where we're going.

• 1:54:20Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:54:21Joe Rogan?

  And if someone's really good, you let them.

• 1:54:23Speaker 03

  I've never thought about that before, but that's it. That's you're you're bypassing your own critical factor where I'm not criticizing this information because it's funny.

• 1:54:32Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:54:32Speaker 03

  I want to hear it.

• 1:54:33Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, well, that's why jokes work when you know the person doesn't really believe that. They don't want us, you know, they're saying crazy shit, but you're laughing anyway because you know what they're doing. They're just taking you on a fun ride. It's like a fun ride through jokes. And when you're doing it, there's this moment that you want to achieve where you're essentially a passenger. You're not even really the driver.

• 1:55:00Speaker 03

  As the as the comedian.

• 1:55:02Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you're kind of the passenger. And the the set sort of takes over and you're just going with where it wants to go. And when the subjects come up, if you're not completely invested in what that subject is, the audience knows. You can say the words the right way with the right timing and they won't work. There's like something about it, but if you're locked in, the audience gets locked in with you. And it's the difference between someone who can't figure it out and someone who becomes successful. It's like realizing that you can't talk about something while you're not thinking about it. You have to be thinking about that thing and you have to be invested in it.

• 1:55:46Joe Rogan?

  It has to be real to you. It has to be something you're really interested in and then the audience gets interested in it as well.

• 1:55:52Speaker 03

  Yeah. That is so true.

• 1:55:55Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's a form of hypnosis, I think.

• 1:55:57Speaker 03

  And the second, I mean, one big part of hypnosis is something called fractionation. Are you familiar with this?

• 1:56:01Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 1:56:02Speaker 03

  So it's fractionation is where like I would put you into a trance and that would bring you almost all the way out to where your eyes are kind of opening again and then send you back down again and you go deeper. So in comedy and and in conversations, you can do this to people where it's like a super fun thing, then really depressing or scary thing, fun thing, scary thing. Scroll through your social media feed.

• 1:56:21Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:56:22Speaker 03

  It's fractionation as well, but it it increases suggestibility. And one of the only

• 1:56:29Speaker 03

  One of the best guys I've seen is like Mitch Hedberg could pull people in.

• 1:56:33Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:56:34Speaker 03

  Man, he was such an awesome dude when it came to that stuff.

• 1:56:38Joe Rogan?

  You know why he could pull people in, though? It's because people knew what to expect when you went to see Mitch Hedberg. Mitch Hedberg's struggle was the early days when people didn't know who he was. And if you schedule the show badly, like say if you have like an opening act that's high energy and then a middle act, the worst is like if a middle act does like singing and songs and stuff and then he's very non sequitur, deadpan, one funny line after another, absurdities. It's all absurd and it, you know, sometimes it didn't catch on. Like he had to become famous and then people wanted to go see him knowing what they were gonna go see.

• 1:57:16Speaker 03

  Yeah, that makes so much sense.

• 1:57:18Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and then.

• 1:57:19Speaker 03

  Cause he's kinda like a Steven Wright.

• 1:57:21Joe Rogan?

  Yes, very similar. Non sequiturs and wacky observations, yeah.

• 1:57:28Speaker 03

  Wow, I would have never considered that. So people have to have a degree of expectancy.

• 1:57:33Joe Rogan?

  Well, not always. I mean, sometimes people just appreciate it because it's funny, but the show has to be structured correctly. I know how chaotic things get this time of the year between all the holidays, trying to train and last minute projects at work. It could seem impossible to get everything done. If you feel like you're running on fumes, AG1 Next Gen is an easy way to get the support that you need with over 75 ingredients and five clinically studied probiotic strains. It supports your energy and your immune health, among other things. And for extra boost, there's AG1 Pro and that has the same Next Gen formula, but with

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• 1:58:56Joe Rogan?

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• 1:59:39Joe Rogan?

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• 2:00:21Joe Rogan?

  And then you got a guy there with sunglasses on that someone asked me if I want a frozen banana. I said, no, but I want a regular banana later. So yes. Like it's like, what the fuck are you talking about? Like you have to be a Mitch Hedberg fan or know what he's doing to appreciate that. Yeah. But once he became famous, then it was awesome because then he was free. So then he could just be himself. He didn't have to worry about, like they were coming to see him. So then he could just like really like excel. Yeah. So.

• 2:00:52Speaker 03

  What I teach, I want to see if you can relate this to comedy somehow. I teach, you know, we talked about what influences the mammalian brain. Focus, authority, tribe, and emotion. Those four things. And no, no language involved whatsoever. And then the human brain has six things. And it seems like expectancy is one of those things. So it's focus, openness, connection, suggestibility, compliance, and expectancy. And I think you only need three. If you get three, you can get compliance from anybody. Like the Milgram experiment, there's no openness, there's no connection, and there's no expectancy. They're not, they don't know what to expect is next. So Milgram experiment only got three and made people murderers. Only three.

• 2:01:36Speaker 03

  So as a comic, if you're on stage, you, you have to generate that focus. You want to create some level of openness with the people in the crowd so they're open to receiving. And suggestibility, I guess, would have to be in there. Right? And connection would be a, a huge one.

• 2:01:53Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, there's a lot of things going on.

• 2:01:56Speaker 03

  But there's, there's so much that goes into planning a show that I never thought about until just when you said that. Like you, you have to keep the energy level at the, at the right balance.

• 2:02:03Joe Rogan?

  You also have the right, have to have the right mindset before you go on stage. Like the worst thing that can happen is before you go on stage, something happens that throws you off. Like you get a phone call from a loved one, like something goes wrong at your house. Like you're in a car accident, like something happens before you go on stage and you're fucked up. That, that's a bad one.

• 2:02:23Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:02:24Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:02:25Speaker 03

  That happened to me yesterday.

• 2:02:26Joe Rogan?

  What happened?

• 2:02:26Speaker 03

  Cause maybe you, you got the biggest show, I think, in the world, biggest podcast in the world. And I, for the first time in a year and a half, I had seizures yesterday.

• 2:02:34Joe Rogan?

  Oh, my God.

• 2:02:35Speaker 03

  Just yesterday.

• 2:02:35Joe Rogan?

  You think it's because of the show? The show put you into a seizure?

• 2:02:38Speaker 03

  I went, I forgot to take methylene blue for three days.

• 2:02:42Joe Rogan?

  Oh.

• 2:02:43Speaker 03

  And the seizures came back.

• 2:02:44Joe Rogan?

  Wow, how bad was it?

• 2:02:46Speaker 03

  Uh, it was like a minute and a half. Uh, but one of them, we were in a, on the way to a restaurant and I was like holding our daughter who's like 13 months old.

• 2:02:54Joe Rogan?

  Oh, Jesus.

• 2:02:55Speaker 03

  And, uh, it was just, but it's not like a crazy seizure, it's just like your head falls down. Uh, but I thought like, yeah, this is, I'm gonna have a seizure on, on Rogan.

• 2:03:04Joe Rogan?

  Oh, no.

• 2:03:04Speaker 03

  Uh, it, like, I would, like, if it happened, I would beg you to keep it in.

• 2:03:08Joe Rogan?

  Have there been studies on methylene blue and seizures where, are doctors recommending this stuff?

• 2:03:15Speaker 03

  Absolutely. I've published papers on it. So doctors are backing it up. There's tons and tons of studies and these are major universities. It's not like Jimbo's College down in Mexico City or something. These are major universities, neurodegenerative disorders like Parkinson's, myasthenia gravis, ALS, and epileptic disorders. So anybody that's got epilepsy, this is neuroprotective. And then it's also neurogenerative. It helps you to get to a point where you can make new neurons. And it helps your mitochondria so much, your neuron mitochondria.

• 2:03:50Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 2:03:51Speaker 03

  And like mitochondria make up 6% of your body weight. It's like, we got a lot.

• 2:03:57Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 2:03:58Speaker 03

  Yeah. We have a ton. And they have, they don't have human DNA. I thought you might like that.

• 2:04:03Joe Rogan?

  What does mitochondria have?

• 2:04:04Speaker 03

  It's its own DNA. It's, they think it was like original from bacteria and then formed a relationship with single-celled organisms and then became human. Or became animals, mammals. And mitochondria do not have, do not share DNA with humans.

• 2:04:22Joe Rogan?

  Whoa.

• 2:04:22Speaker 03

  And they power our cells. It's pretty cool.

• 2:04:26Joe Rogan?

  And methylene blue helps them?

• 2:04:29Speaker 03

  Yes. There's a, there's a whole lot. And the reason red light is effective is because of this chemical called cytochrome C oxidase. And it's absorbing so much of that red light to where there's photons going down into the mitochondria, helping to generate ATP. It is, I'm not like saying click the link down below or anything like that. It's saved my life.

• 2:04:52Joe Rogan?

  Is there anything that people should be worried about with that stuff? Like other than taking SSRIs? Is there, what happens if you take too much of it?

• 2:05:00Speaker 03

  I'm not a doctor. But you, taking too much of it can be toxic. But I mean, taking too much aspirin will do the same thing.

• 2:05:08Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:05:08Speaker 03

  So it's hormesis is what they call this, where like at the right amount, it's helpful. So that's a hormetic effect.

• 2:05:15Joe Rogan?

  And what's the effective dose again? Per body weight?

• 2:05:18Speaker 03

  My dose, I can't tell anybody what to do. But the dose I take is about one to two milligrams per kilogram per day. And then I'll take one day off like once a week, maybe. Sometimes I'll just keep going.

• 2:05:33Speaker 03

  So if I'm seventy kilograms and I'm taking two milligram or two milligrams per kilogram, I'm gonna take a hundred and forty milligrams per day, all at one time.

• 2:05:45Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 2:05:45Speaker 03

  Usually just in the morning.

• 2:05:48Speaker 03

  And it is so cool.

• 2:05:50Joe Rogan?

  I've heard people say that they feel a cognitive benefit from it as well.

• 2:05:54Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:05:55Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:05:56Speaker 03

  I think it's just generating a lot more energy in your brain because there's ATP just going out everywhere.

• 2:06:01Joe Rogan?

  This sounds like one of those things, though, where I'm, we're talking about this, I'm like, man, one day this is gonna bite everybody in the ass. Like, this sounds like one of those ones where it's almost too good to be true.

• 2:06:12Speaker 03

  I know, it's, it's backed by a hundred and twenty years of research.

• 2:06:15Speaker 04

  I was just Googling the weight of them, and this is the best I could find.

• 2:06:19Joe Rogan?

  Okay, it says due to their tiny size, individual mitochondria weigh an incredibly small amount, particularly negligible, but collectively in the human body, total weight of all mitochondria estimate in the range of a few milligrams. However, the exact rate can be dependent on factors like body mass and cell type. Well, that doesn't sound like six percent of your body.

• 2:06:36Speaker 03

  I don't think that's correct.

• 2:06:39Joe Rogan?

  But that's AI overview, it can't be wrong.

• 2:06:41Speaker 03

  Oh, that's right, sorry.

• 2:06:43Joe Rogan?

  Um, interesting, where did you hear this from?

• 2:06:46Speaker 03

  A professor of mine, so maybe.

• 2:06:48Joe Rogan?

  Maybe he's dealing with old information.

• 2:06:50Speaker 03

  Might be.

• 2:06:52Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, a few milligrams, definitely not six percent of your body weight.

• 2:06:55Speaker 03

  I think it's a lot more than that.

• 2:06:56Joe Rogan?

  Okay, but either way, it's a part of your body.

• 2:06:59Speaker 03

  And it's like the most important thing in our bodies is mitochondria. So we, we get inflammation and we have all these disorders. It starts with some kind of dysfunction with mitochondria most of the time, as I understand it. Uh, so the doctor that got me on this mitochondria, or mitochondrial health regimen, which is methylene blue plus high dose melatonin, and this is like two, two hundred milligrams.

• 2:07:24Joe Rogan?

  And do you take it during the day?

• 2:07:26Speaker 03

  Oh, no.

• 2:07:26Joe Rogan?

  Melatonin at night?

• 2:07:27Speaker 03

  Right around sunset where my body's kind of naturally wanting to get some.

• 2:07:31Joe Rogan?

  I've heard people talk about the side effects of melatonin and that the, the taking exogenous melatonin, it might not be the best idea.

• 2:07:39Speaker 03

  Right, melatonin doesn't have a rebound.

• 2:07:41Joe Rogan?

  It doesn't.

• 2:07:42Speaker 03

  No.

• 2:07:42Joe Rogan?

  No? So it doesn't have an effect on your body's ability to produce it either?

• 2:07:46Speaker 03

  No.

• 2:07:46Joe Rogan?

  No?

• 2:07:47Speaker 03

  No.

• 2:07:47Joe Rogan?

  So there's no negative side effects of, well, there, people think there's negative side effects of everything, right?

• 2:07:52Speaker 03

  There could be.

• 2:07:53Joe Rogan?

  That's one of the problems with the muddy murky waters of health and nutrition. This is like, it's, it's hard to know who's correct because there's a bunch of air quote experts on both sides. There's.

• 2:08:04Speaker 03

  Yeah, what I'm saying is it's correct for me because it's, it's solving the problem of me. Like, when my daughter was born, my daughter was born on Christmas Eve, twenty twenty-three. When I was driving my wife to the hospital at that time, I didn't know who she was.

• 2:08:22Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 2:08:22Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:08:23Joe Rogan?

  So you had seized up?

• 2:08:24Speaker 03

  No, I mean.

• 2:08:25Joe Rogan?

  Something was wrong?

• 2:08:26Speaker 03

  It, my hippocampus was like eating itself at that time. I, I knew that she was a friend. I knew that she was important to me.

• 2:08:33Joe Rogan?

  What? You did, you literally didn't know she was your wife?

• 2:08:35Speaker 03

  Didn't know she was my wife. I took selfies with her going into the hospital. She's pregnant, going into labor and delivery. But I knew that if I could fake it for ten or fifteen minutes, when this thing like wears off, because I'd had these like weird phases that my brain went through. If I could fake it for ten or fifteen minutes, then it'll come back to me.

• 2:08:54Joe Rogan?

  Wow, what a mind fuck.

• 2:08:57Speaker 03

  It's terrifying in that, like, you won't, like, you're losing everything. It, you lose everything without losing your life.

• 2:09:04Joe Rogan?

  Well, also you're wondering, what if this is permanent? What if I am like, what is that movie, Memento? Remember that movie?

• 2:09:10Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:09:11Joe Rogan?

  The dude who had to write everything down on his arms?

• 2:09:12Speaker 03

  Tattoos across his chest.

• 2:09:14Joe Rogan?

  Because he, he didn't know what the fuck was going on?

• 2:09:15Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:09:16Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:09:16Speaker 03

  And he had that Polaroid camera that he carried around?

• 2:09:19Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:09:20Speaker 03

  It's a good movie.

• 2:09:20Joe Rogan?

  Great movie.

• 2:09:21Speaker 03

  But it's scary in that, like, you were not there. It's like, it's kind of like an Alzheimer's thing.

• 2:09:27Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:09:27Speaker 03

  But it was different in that, like, I spent, with this hippocampal problem, sclerosis, and this temporal epilepsy, I thought my dog was fake.

• 2:09:37Speaker 03

  Fake.

• 2:09:37Joe Rogan?

  Jesus.

• 2:09:38Speaker 03

  Like I saw, somebody like planted this animal here and it's not a real thing.

• 2:09:43Joe Rogan?

  Were you paranoid like someone did this?

• 2:09:45Speaker 03

  Not at all.

• 2:09:47Joe Rogan?

  Were you like, why is this fake dog here?

• 2:09:48Speaker 03

  There is paranoia, like we were, before a temporal lobe seizure happens, there's so much deja vu that it feels like you're going down a roller coaster. Like you're falling off a building, that kind of pit of your stomach feeling. So you look around and you're like, there's no way that all of this is not set up. Someone set this up. So there is paranoia there, like right as a seizure starts, cause everything starts looking like, I've seen every single detail right here before, someone's setting me up and then boom, seizure starts.

• 2:10:21Joe Rogan?

  Jesus.

• 2:10:22Speaker 03

  It's horrible, man. But mine stopped. And if I stop taking methylene, then seizures start. And I'm not saying anybody's gotta go to the same website as me. You can get it on Amazon, it's nice and cheap.

• 2:10:32Joe Rogan?

  Is there anything else that affects it, like your diet, drinking, is there anything that?

• 2:10:37Speaker 03

  Yeah, if I, if I eat a lot of carbs, uh, definitely. So like a low carb keto diet is what they recommend for Alzheimer's and, and all kinds of brain disorders is.

• 2:10:47Joe Rogan?

  Cancer as well.

• 2:10:48Speaker 03

  Keto, yeah, yeah. It's so helpful for your body. So I have a low carb, super low carb diet and try to remember that methylene blue every day. And I do red light therapy at home. I have a huge helmet thing that goes down. It's a red light lasers system that's supposed to penetrate your skull and your body like four inches. So I, I do that about once a day for about 20 minutes.

• 2:11:11Joe Rogan?

  Jesus.

• 2:11:12Speaker 03

  It's badass. It's cool. It looks like one of those hair dryers from a, like a old hair salon.

• 2:11:17Joe Rogan?

  Sounds cool, but I, I always think like, how much electricity around your brain is a good thing? Like, cause people are telling you not to have earbuds in anymore.

• 2:11:26Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. Have you had Jack Cruz, have you heard of him?

• 2:11:29Joe Rogan?

  No, yeah, I know he is, yeah.

• 2:11:32Speaker 03

  I've heard so much of what he said and it's like I've stopped using.

• 2:11:37Joe Rogan?

  Ever heard him break down SV40?

• 2:11:41Speaker 03

  Horrifying.

• 2:11:41Joe Rogan?

  That's is very interesting.

• 2:11:42Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:11:43Joe Rogan?

  Very interesting.

• 2:11:44Speaker 03

  I would love.

• 2:11:45Joe Rogan?

  Simeon virus that's connected to some vaccines.

• 2:11:48Speaker 03

  I hope someone looks into it.

• 2:11:49Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. I talked to Brett Weinstein about it and he explained it to me. It's crazy. Like they, they used monkey kidney cells.

• 2:11:57Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:11:58Joe Rogan?

  As the basis for certain vaccines, not knowing that they were gonna infect these vaccines with this SV40 and it causes cancer.

• 2:12:09Speaker 03

  Awful.

• 2:12:09Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:12:10Speaker 03

  And it's just like, I'm, I'm so, I'm not educated on medicine. So like, I don't know, like, is that a common thing? Have they done it with a whole bunch of other stuff? And we're just looking at this one thing. I don't think I'm educated enough on that to know a lot about it. But hearing Jack describe that was terrifying, just terrifying.

• 2:12:29Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:12:31Speaker 03

  And there's so many other things that are coming out, just one after the other with this stuff that was going on with the vaccines and all that.

• 2:12:39Joe Rogan?

  Mm hmm.

• 2:12:39Speaker 03

  If I can even say that word.

• 2:12:41Joe Rogan?

  Well, you can now that Robert F Kennedy Jr. Is the head of HHS.

• 2:12:45Speaker 03

  Yeah. Goodness.

• 2:12:46Joe Rogan?

  It's gonna be interesting to see what he uncovers.

• 2:12:50Speaker 03

  Can we do a pee break?

• 2:12:51Joe Rogan?

  Take a pee break. Okay. We'll be right back. So what are we saying about what you teach the governments?

• 2:12:58Speaker 03

  So we teach the government guys, like psyops guys, a lot.

• 2:13:03Speaker 03

  And we teach them a system called neurocognitive intelligence. It's essentially, how do I identify in a population or one person? Some behavioral patterns. And if I can identify behavioral patterns, then I can predict future behavior. And if I can predict it, I can influence it to another direction. And it's pretty easy if you just kind of get these basics down. And the, like, the first thing that we teach is this thing called the childhood triangle. And this is, what did I do around the age of eight for safety, friends and rewards? So, how did I, what did I do to feel safe? What did I do to make or keep friends? And what did I do to get some kind of reward? For some kids, a reward was like, their parents complimenting them. Some kids, a reward was like water or food.

• 2:13:47Speaker 03

  Depending on your life, how you were brought up. But if you look at adult behavior, when you see these patterns of how adults deal with conflict, you're seeing, most of the time, how they dealt with conflict as a kid. Because we're carrying all these childhood patterns into adulthood, all the time. It is so common. So when we have a habit of dealing with conflict, even in a relationship, not even a work thing, we're spotting these little childhood patterns of safety, friends and rewards, almost all the time. And if I can spot that, that's like a step one of developing a pretty deep behavior profile of a human being. Does that make any sense? Yeah, it does. Okay. And then step two is identify social needs.

• 2:14:32Speaker 03

  And this is like, what do we need from other people? And there's six, six of these. And this is like, significance, acceptance, approval, intelligence, pity and strength. And of course, that's not all human needs. But those are the six that, that you can spot pretty easily and that you can leverage pretty easily. When it's persuasion and influence. If I'm, if I'm training an intelligence guy to go recruit somebody overseas, right? He's got to be able to spot these things because he, responding what this person needs. So if I'm in a conversation and somebody says, well, I've been a CEO for 20 years. I manage 9,000 people at this company. There's a significance statement, right? So we hear these statements in conversation all the time, but we hear them just kind of passively,

• 2:15:13Speaker 03

  instead of understanding what's being revealed in a conversation. So if I hear a person speak, you'll hear one of those six in almost every conversation. Even if it's a, a, a two-minute conversation with an Uber driver, you're going to hear some of these statements come out. The acceptance would be like, I'm, I need to be part of groups. I need to be, I'm a member of things. We, they use a lot of words like, we did this, we did that. And the approval people are like, well, you know, I'm going on, uh, I've got this thing tomorrow, I gotta speak on stage. I, I never do a good job and I need you to tell me like, you know, Chase, you're, you're great. You're gonna be okay. You're gonna, you're gonna do a great job. This is the approval seeking, the intelligence seeking people were talking about the universities. They went to the, the grades that they got.

• 2:15:57Speaker 03

  They're, they'll display their intellect in all these ways. And pity, pity people is pretty obvious. Like, and the way that we deal that, the pity person is essentially asking, do other people realize how bad I've had it or what I've been through? And if I can spot that, then I can start recognizing that and making this person see me as their type of person. Because now I'm not just a person or a friend. They're getting neuropeptides from all of this. So I'm kind of a drug dealer. If I can spot which are these six this person is and their, and these behavioral patterns. So this is like in the first two minutes of, of an interaction. You can spot these things. And the strength and power person, there's one that's leader and one that's like, I need

• 2:16:36Speaker 03

  to, if I bark loud enough, if I act tough enough, then nobody's gonna hurt me. So there's one that's kind of the natural leader and there's one that's like the, the chihuahua.

• 2:16:48Joe Rogan?

  Right, the defensive.

• 2:16:49Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:16:49Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. And when you say you work with psyops people, what do you mean by that?

• 2:16:56Speaker 03

  I've trained, uh, many times, US Army Psyops Branch. And how to do these.

• 2:17:04Joe Rogan?

  Do they have a name? Is it just called Psyops Branch?

• 2:17:06Speaker 03

  It's just called Psyops.

• 2:17:08Joe Rogan?

  What's that, Jamie?

• 2:17:09Speaker 04

  That video the other day?

• 2:17:11Joe Rogan?

  Which one?

• 2:17:11Speaker 04

  That crazy like trailer? We ended the podcast with it. It was like on the Psyop YouTube channel?

• 2:17:16Speaker 03

  It's their commercial.

• 2:17:17Joe Rogan?

  Oh, right. That, that, that, that video's cra- there's a couple of them, right?

• 2:17:21Speaker 04

  It was cool.

• 2:17:22Joe Rogan?

  They're very cool, but it's crazy.

• 2:17:24Speaker 03

  Yeah. And it's, it's like.

• 2:17:26Joe Rogan?

  Can we play that again? Uh, yeah, I guess. Do they let us play it or do they give us shit? I don't know.

• 2:17:31Speaker 03

  YouTube has a lot of wacky.

• 2:17:32Speaker 04

  They probably wanted to go around, I would imagine.

• 2:17:33Speaker 03

  Yeah, they would want that to go around. We're trying to help you. Fucking brainwash people.

• 2:17:39Joe Rogan?

  We're on your side, we're American.

• 2:17:41Speaker 03

  You know who Edward Bernays is?

• 2:17:43Joe Rogan?

  I know the name.

• 2:17:44Speaker 03

  He was the guy who's, he invented like public brainwashing, large-scale brainwashing. And he was the guy who changed the Department of War to the Department of Defense. He was the guy who invented the Torches of Freedom campaign to get women to smoke Virginia Slims. He's the guy that dyed Marjorie in yellow.

• 2:18:03Speaker 04

  Ghost in the Machine is what it is.

• 2:18:04Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's it. "If your opponent is of caloric temper, seek to irritate him, pretend to be weak, that he may grow arrogant." Sun Tzu, The Art of War.

• 2:18:14Speaker 03

  I'd kill Bill.

• 2:18:15Joe Rogan?

  This is such a wild video. Have you ever wondered?

• 2:18:25Joe Rogan?

  So good, whoever made this? Way to go.

• 2:18:29Speaker 04

  Unnamed.

• 2:18:30Joe Rogan?

  Un, of course! Who's pulling the strings?

• 2:18:35Joe Rogan?

  Who is unnamed? Who did this?

• 2:18:42Joe Rogan?

  If you're looking for purpose in your life, born from the ashes, and this video comes on, this could, this could get you to sign up. Of a world at war.

• 2:18:55Joe Rogan?

  Dun dun dun.

• 2:18:57Speaker 04

  Most makes you want to sign up now.

• 2:18:59Joe Rogan?

  You'll find us in the shadows. Right? You want to be these guys, sneaking in with the guns, right? At the tip of the spear,

• 2:19:08Joe Rogan?

  marching in impressive manner, a threat rises in the east. Oh no!

• 2:19:14Speaker 04

  The music helps a lot.

• 2:19:16Joe Rogan?

  Oh yeah!

• 2:19:16Speaker 03

  It really does.

• 2:19:17Joe Rogan?

  Warfare. Look at they're, they're back to the Mongols, this is crazy. And then they shift from that

• 2:19:24Joe Rogan?

  to modern military. Antifa, scrolling, all the world's a stage.

• 2:19:35Speaker 05

  There is another very important phase of warfare. It has as its target, not the body, but the mind of the enemy.

• 2:19:46Speaker 03

  Anybody wanting to be in control of stuff? Yeah, this would be just so like, okay.

• 2:19:53Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:19:54Speaker 03

  I'm gonna go be in charge of everything.

• 2:19:56Joe Rogan?

  Intoxicating. Anything we touch is a weapon. Ta ta ta. We can deceive.

• 2:20:06Joe Rogan?

  Persuade.

• 2:20:09Joe Rogan?

  Change. I wonder if they can now with Doge. I wonder if USAID getting crippled will have an impact on that.

• 2:20:17Speaker 03

  I bet it will.

• 2:20:17Joe Rogan?

  Probably.

• 2:20:18Speaker 03

  I bet it will.

• 2:20:19Joe Rogan?

  I don't know if that's good or bad.

• 2:20:21Speaker 03

  So these, if, if you know how to speak to a person and you can get them into an identity agreement early on in that conversation, you can do anything. And if you just look at Milgram, all they use, so remember we talked about those six things that influence a person? Look at that Milgram experiment, there's only three. If you look at that, the lines experiment, a person guessing which line is the longer or which line matches, there's only a few in there and you get absolute compliance from that. So if you can do that and then get somebody to make an identity agreement, like what kind of person are you?

• 2:21:02Speaker 03

  So as, just to put this in practical terms, like I'm training a real estate person, one on one. They're like, well, how do I get these clients to behave like this at the end? So you get them to agree at the beginning. And like, so one of these lines would be like, you know, when I first started learning real estate, they told me that I'm only ever going to deal with three types of clients. They're going to be like, the first ones are the doubters. And these are the people that doubt everything because they, maybe they had a hard childhood or they got screwed over so many times that they doubt just everything, which leads them to never taking action. The next ones are the delayers. These people just push everything off in their life and blah, blah, blah. And then we have the deciders. And these people get all the information that they possibly need and they make a decision.

• 2:21:46Speaker 03

  So without me even, if I'm the real estate person, without me even telling you, or you agreeing or saying what you are, I've got you to subconsciously or to privately make an agreement in your head that you're probably in category three. And that's within the first like 10 minutes of meeting somebody. So I've started to compromise identity in just a few minutes. And if I also know that you have these behavioral patterns and also know that you seek significance, right before I say that, I might say, you know, Joe, it's, it's obviously make a tremendous difference around here. I know a lot of these people really look up to you. And I looked up to my mentor who taught me this stuff, real estate, and he said, there's only three types of clients.

• 2:22:30Speaker 03

  So now I've got your dopamine levels up. I've got your neurotransmitter levels up as a, as a little verbal drug dealer to get you kind of addicted to what's going on here. Then I pull you into this identity trap. That's like 45 seconds where I've got you into, I've got you hooked into identity. And it's just a small piece, but I've got you hooked in to begin with. And I've got you to agree that you are a certain type of person. That's the key. Am I the type of person who blank?

• 2:22:56Joe Rogan?

  Did you see a lot of the characteristics of this kind of psy-op interaction with the public during the COVID pandemic?

• 2:23:08Speaker 03

  In my head, I was going, please don't, please don't bring it.

• 2:23:11Joe Rogan?

  Cause it seems like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna send this to Jamie, cause this to me was one of the darkest moments of the propaganda of the, the whole thing was the, the, the complete lack of empathy for the unvaccinated and not just lack of empathy, but disdain

• 2:23:33Speaker 03

  Contempt.

• 2:23:34Joe Rogan?

  Contempt.

• 2:23:35Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:23:35Joe Rogan?

  But this was in the LA Times. And I saved it because I knew we're going to talk today. And I remember seeing this going, God, to put yourself into a place where you could even write this and then put it in the New York Times, says column, mocking anti-vaxxers, COVID death is ghoulish, yes, but may be necessary.

• 2:23:57Joe Rogan?

  I remember when I read that, I remember when I saw that, I was thinking, Jesus Christ, this seems like, this is so on the nose, George Orwell.

• 2:24:09Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:24:09Joe Rogan?

  It's so, it's such a mind fight. No one should ever mock someone's death. That's just a, a citizen that got infected with what now we know was a genetically engineered virus.

• 2:24:27Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:24:28Joe Rogan?

  A gain of function virus from a weapons lab that got out to, no one should, no one should mock an innocent person for not trusting the government and not wanting to get vaccinated. That, that is so crazy to mock someone's death from a disease where they did nothing wrong. If you want to mock the, the death of a murderer or a rapist or some horrible criminal, that's a different thing. Right? You want to mock Osama bin Laden's death. You want, that's a diff, we're talking about a different thing.

• 2:24:56Speaker 03

  But it's

• 2:24:56Joe Rogan?

  This is crazy. This is crazy to say this to grandmas and obese people that wind up dying from COVID. This is crazy to put that in the Los Angeles Times. But that was one of those things, it would let everybody else know this is how they think about you if you don't, if you don't follow along.

• 2:25:16Speaker 03

  Yeah. And the tri, tribe will get you.

• 2:25:18Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:25:18Speaker 03

  Especially that artificially simulated tribe. Where there's millions of people that are going to be angry with you, people you don't even know.

• 2:25:26Joe Rogan?

  And a lot of them are bots. So the first time I ever went on Dr. Phil, he was a great guy. He came to my, my wedding. He's a close friend now, but this is, I've never met him before. I've never, I'm some ex-military guy. It's like a tobacco chewing dude in the military. And I'm going, now I'm going on Dr. Phil. And I'm like, man, how, what if I, like, how do I, how do I act if, what if, what do I do if I'm nervous? And he's like, man, you have a horrible disease. And this is what Phil said. Chase, you've got a, you've got a horrible disease. You have a need for love from strangers. Whoa.

• 2:26:03Speaker 03

  And that changed me, man.

• 2:26:10Joe Rogan?

  That's some harsh truth.

• 2:26:12Speaker 03

  Yeah, and I think that got me over that. But if you look at all of this, everything that was going on, what we talked about manipulating the mammalian brain, it's Cesar Millan. It's every step that Cesar Millan does.

• 2:26:26Joe Rogan?

  Does with dogs.

• 2:26:27Speaker 03

  Focus, authority, tribe, and emotion. So, if I hack your focus using novelty, if you remember, we talked about like something breaks our expectation. I'm not expecting to see mocking and all that kind of stuff, mocking anti-vaxxers. Focus, authority is just LA Times.

• 2:26:45Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:26:45Speaker 03

  Tribe. People must agree with this because it's published and it's up there. And then the emotion, mocking the deaths might be ghoulish, so make me feel a little bit of emotion, that helps me feel like a good person, maybe.

• 2:26:58Joe Rogan?

  Maybe necessary to be ghoulish.

• 2:27:00Speaker 03

  So it's focus, authority, tribe, and emotion.

• 2:27:03Joe Rogan?

  How much of that do you think was engineered? How much of this do you think was planned out, this response? Do you think that someone sat in a room and that people discussed the best ways to get people to comply?

• 2:27:15Speaker 03

  Yes. Oh, yes. I would bet my career. Because it was executed following textbook protocol. And there are these, I made a YouTube video on my channel of like how to spot psyops, and there's like 20 different little things. You only need one, one thing, and you can spot whether or not you're standing in the middle of a psyop. And that one thing is, if the opinion that's coming out needs people to be silenced, it's a psyop. There's, there are psychological operations in play.

• 2:27:46Joe Rogan?

  Wow. So if you can't question it, if you're supposed to just go along, it's a psyop?

• 2:27:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, and if, and if people have to be silenced or publicly shamed because of their, because of their information, and they're not telling people the sky's falling, they're not, they're not saying crazy shit, they're just saying basic stuff and they need to be silenced, that is a psyop. No matter what, you can go back in any, any time in history during a psyop of our country, and if people needed to be silenced or shamed publicly, which is like the tribe, right? That's why public speaking is our number one fear for, for humans. It's not a fear of speaking, it's a fear of judgment. So I'm just putting the threat of judgment out there. That is a psyop. So if people have to be silenced, and they were Harvard doctors.

• 2:28:37Speaker 03

  Kicked off of the internet or kicked off

• 2:28:39Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:28:39Speaker 03

  Twitter for this stuff.

• 2:28:41Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Stanford, MIT.

• 2:28:43Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's all you need.

• 2:28:45Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, the Great Barrington Declaration. People didn't agree with exactly how the government was handling everything and they were silenced. And they were treated like fringe quacks instead of respected physicians. And it was openly discussed in emails. That's what's really crazy. They talked about the strategy of silencing these people. And then you had the actual government itself contacting Twitter, trying to get people removed, which is wild.

• 2:29:16Speaker 03

  Yeah, and didn't you have Mark Zuckerberg on? He talked about.

• 2:29:19Joe Rogan?

  Mm hmm, yeah. He talked about Facebook doing it, about the FBI contacting them. It's crazy to believe, but my hope is that people have learned from this past four years and that this is an eye opener.

• 2:29:34Speaker 03

  Yeah, and one thing I could say, like, if you want to know whether or not you have been lied to, if you can't see anything wrong with the side you agree with and you can't see anything right with the side that you disagree with, you have been manipulated.

• 2:29:51Joe Rogan?

  Or you're very rigid in the way you look at things, right?

• 2:29:54Speaker 03

  Yeah, or, I mean, this.

• 2:29:56Joe Rogan?

  You're assuming someone's objective, right? Because some people are just not objective.

• 2:30:00Speaker 03

  Right, but that lack of objectivity can come from manipulation a lot. So I'm deleting your objectivity through psyops. That's what I want to do. That's what psyops typically aim to do.

• 2:30:13Joe Rogan?

  With some people, again, as you were talking about with suggestibility, some people are more vulnerable to that sort of group think.

• 2:30:21Speaker 03

  Yeah, way more, way more.

• 2:30:23Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:30:23Speaker 03

  And that's like, if you think of, back to that childhood triangle again, friends, safety and rewards. What did I do to get friends? I listened to them and I agreed with them. What did I do to feel safe? Because my dad was a dickhead or an alcoholic or something. I just went along with everything they said. I'm just going to go along with it. So you may, and I'm not saying that's the recipe for suggestibility, but that may be the reason someone grows up that way. That's just how I lived as a child. Those were my little scripts to survive as a kid, as an innocent little kid.

• 2:30:54Speaker 03

  There's so many psyops that are happening all the time, but some of them, when you say psyops, a really, really good infomercial is a psyop.

• 2:31:03Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:31:03Speaker 03

  So, but what we're talking about is large scale.

• 2:31:05Joe Rogan?

  Right. One of the things that I thought was fascinating about the psyop of the whole pandemic was that there were people that weren't even benefiting from being a part of it that were working for the psyop. And you saw people that were, they were making videos mocking people that were unvaccinated or calling, one of my favorite was Keith Olbermann. You ever see the Keith Olbermann one?

• 2:31:32Speaker 03

  No.

• 2:31:34Joe Rogan?

  That guy was a great sportscaster and he's, I don't know what the fuck happened to him, but he has this one video where he's getting, he gets vaccinated and shows you his card and tells you that everybody who's not getting the vaccine are scared, vaccine hesitancy. You're scared! And he's like yelling, you're scared! And it's, he's like on his balcony in Manhattan, it's like so out of touch because he obviously lives in this really nice place, beautiful view behind him and he's talking about how these people are scared because they're not getting the vaccine. Like scared of what? Like what are you scared of? Is there something to be scared of? Yeah, you're scared of side effects from a fucking new medicine.

• 2:32:10Speaker 03

  Experimental.

• 2:32:11Joe Rogan?

  There's been so many times in the past where we've seen they launch a new medicine and there's a host of side effects that the fucking pharmaceutical drug companies probably knew about and didn't tell everybody like, but you're scared, you're scared. See if you can find it, it's wonderful because it's so kooky. You just watch him yelling and screaming, it's like this is so ineffective.

• 2:32:32Speaker 03

  But, and this dude, this is how everything is. Like, we, oh yeah, they drugged everybody with LSD. Oh yeah, we gave Indians smallpox or fill in the blank. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, we did that for this year and this decade and this decade and this decade and it continued on, but not now.

• 2:32:47Joe Rogan?

  Not now.

• 2:32:47Speaker 03

  Not, we don't do that anymore.

• 2:32:49Joe Rogan?

  Come on, Chase, why would we do that now?

• 2:32:50Speaker 03

  This is America, Joe.

• 2:32:51Joe Rogan?

  This is not how we operate today. We are moral, we are the leaders of the free world.

• 2:32:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:32:56Joe Rogan?

  Have you found it?

• 2:32:59Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, this is it. Give me fucking, so give me some volume. So he's getting his shot with his stupid mask on.

• 2:33:06Speaker 05

  Who's the shot?

• 2:33:06Joe Rogan?

  He's got his.

• 2:33:07Speaker 05

  Mission accomplished. And it is, it is time to stop coddling them, the ones who won't get the damn shot already. And our first step, you and I, is symbols, the language we use. We call these people vaccine hesitant, vaccine skeptics, anti-vax. We say they're protesting mandates and passports, they're making a personal choice. They're waiting for more information, they're making a medical decision. Bullshit, they're afraid, they're afraid to get vaccinated.

• 2:33:40Speaker 03

  Correct.

• 2:33:41Speaker 05

  Stop feeding their egos about what they're doing, stop legitimizing it. Vaccine hesitant, they're afraid. Vaccine skeptics, they're afraid. Anti-vax, they're afraid. They're protesting mandates and passports, they're afraid.

• 2:33:57Joe Rogan?

  The little bit of spittle in his upper lip makes it extra good.

• 2:34:00Speaker 05

  They're waiting for more information, afraid. They're making a medical decision, to be afraid. The snowflakes are afraid.

• 2:34:10Joe Rogan?

  Okay, you can stop, we get it, we get it. Isn't it wonderful?

• 2:34:18Joe Rogan?

  But he's doing this for social credit, he's doing this to virtue signal, he's doing this to show everybody. He's holding up his card, I'm compliant, you know?

• 2:34:26Speaker 03

  And he thinks he's gonna, it's gonna benefit him, somewhere, there's a payoff.

• 2:34:30Joe Rogan?

  Socially, he feels like he is on the side of the intelligent people who trust the science. Yeah.

• 2:34:38Speaker 03

  I wonder if someone asked him to do the video.

• 2:34:40Joe Rogan?

  I doubt it. Maybe, maybe, possibly. I know that they definitely did encourage people to post things on social media.

• 2:34:48Speaker 03

  Yeah, so it was encouraged enough to the point where you got a little reward emotionally.

• 2:34:54Joe Rogan?

  Good job, Keith.

• 2:34:55Speaker 03

  But they're leveraging that authority and the tribe.

• 2:34:59Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:34:59Speaker 03

  Like, I'm not gonna, nobody, nobody, celebrity's gonna talk like that on TV unless lots of people agree. He's gotta have a lot of backing.

• 2:35:06Joe Rogan?

  Plenty of people agree with him, but the thing about it is, like... Afraid of what? Like, you're not saying what they're afraid of. They're afraid of what everyone's experiencing right now, Keith.

• 2:35:16Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:35:17Joe Rogan?

  Massive side effects.

• 2:35:19Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:35:19Joe Rogan?

  Look at the amount of people that have myocarditis. Look at the rises and all of these autoimmune disorders and all these different things that people, neurological conditions that people are dealing with that are vaccine injured.

• 2:35:30Speaker 03

  I've got a friend of mine that was kicked out of the military for not getting it. And it broke my heart. He was in for 19 years, was about to retire and get pensioned and all that kind of stuff.

• 2:35:40Joe Rogan?

  Now, the Trump administration apparently is going to bring those people back if they want to come back with back pay.

• 2:35:45Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 2:35:45Joe Rogan?

  Is that happening to him?

• 2:35:46Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 2:35:46Joe Rogan?

  That's great.

• 2:35:47Speaker 03

  He's going back in. And he was a commander.

• 2:35:49Joe Rogan?

  It's fucking crazy. Well, good for him, first of all, for sticking to his guns, you know? And if he knows anybody that's been injured or died from it, now I bet he probably feels pretty good about his decision.

• 2:35:58Speaker 03

  And I tell you what, man, at 19 years, I probably would have done it. I think I would have done it. Because that's like, that's pay for the rest of your life and your kids are covered and with medical insurance.

• 2:36:10Joe Rogan?

  But by then, you know, people had already known that there were side effects. And I've talked about it before, but my, my situation was, I was not hesitant at all initially. The UFC had allocated a bunch of the vaccines for their employees, and we were doing shows during the pandemic. And we were doing them in Vegas. So they were at this place called the Apex Center, which is a smaller arena that the UFC had fights in during the pandemic. Everybody had to be tested. You have to be tested before you get there. You have to be tested at home before you fly, the whole deal. You get there, and then once you get there, they told me that they had vaccines for all the employees. So I called the doctor and I said, hey, can I do it while I'm here? I was going to do it the day of the fight. I thought I was like the flu shot, like, whatever. I didn't, I know.

• 2:36:55Speaker 03

  I think most people did.

• 2:36:56Joe Rogan?

  I had no fear of vaccines at all before this point. I had no, I'd never read any books about vaccines. I thought anybody who was an anti-vaxxer was a kook. Vaccines are the reason why we don't have polio and smallpox, all these different things, right? So, um, they tell me that I would have to come back on Monday. I can't come back on Monday, or I'd have to go to the clinic on Monday. They have to do it there. They can't do it at the arena. I said, "I can't, uh, but I'll be back in two weeks for the next fights. I'll do it then." In between the time I was supposed to be there and come back, it gets pulled from the market. So they had the Johnson and Johnson. It gets pulled for blood clots. Then, two people I knew got strokes.

• 2:37:34Speaker 03

  Oh, God.

• 2:37:34Joe Rogan?

  And I was like, "What the fuck is going on?" Because like, so many people were getting vaccinated and, you know, if you have millions of people getting vaccinated, you're gonna have some serious side effects occasionally. And I was around quite a few. And I started getting really nervous. And then when it came back, I'm like, "Do I have to take this thing?" Because then they had pulled the Johnson and Johnson. They're saying, "Well, you still get the Pfizer or the Moderna." I'm like, "Whoa, whoa, whoa. Like, what's going on here? What's going on?" And then a bunch of people that I knew had it and got over it really quick. They got COVID. And then my family got it. And when my family got it, I was like, "Let me see if I can get it." Because like, uh, I didn't do anything different. I hugged my kids. I slept with my wife. Like, we hung out together. They were like, "You're gonna get sick."

• 2:38:18Joe Rogan?

  Everybody was sick in the house but me. And I was like, "Hmm."

• 2:38:22Joe Rogan?

  This is where I had two days where I, when I was working out, I felt kinda weak.

• 2:38:25Speaker 03

  Maybe that's because of your horse paste.

• 2:38:27Joe Rogan?

  Could be. I wasn't even taking horse paste at the time. Um, I was taking nothing. I was just vitamins. I was constantly doing vitamins and nutrients. I do IV, I was doing IV vitamins at the time, once a week with NAD. I was very, I'm healthy. I work out a lot. But it was this narrative that if you are around it, you're definitely going to get it. And I was like, "Okay, well, that's not true."

• 2:38:47Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:38:48Joe Rogan?

  Because I was fucking around it. And this was back then, when everybody had it in my family. There was no vaccine. So I was like, "Okay, let me see what happens." And I didn't get it. And I was like, "They all got over it and they all, and then a bunch of my friends got it. Jamie got it. Everybody got over it." And I was like, "This is not what everyone's saying. Everyone's saying it's a death sentence." Like, this is fucking weird. This whole thing is weird. And then I eventually got sick because I was touring and I was doing arenas and I was like traveling around and it wasn't that bad. It was like one day I felt real sick.

• 2:39:22Speaker 03

  It's like a cold.

• 2:39:23Joe Rogan?

  And then two days later, I made that video and CNN turned my face green.

• 2:39:26Speaker 03

  I saw that.

• 2:39:27Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it was nuts. So that to me was fascinating to be the subject of a psy-op was fascinating.

• 2:39:35Speaker 03

  I, the day that I saw, I was on Twitter or something and I saw someone did a side by side.

• 2:39:40Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:39:41Speaker 03

  Original versus aired version.

• 2:39:43Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:39:43Speaker 03

  When it, when you were like greened.

• 2:39:46Joe Rogan?

  Listen, man, if I was really sick, I would tell everybody, hey, man, this is for real. I'm really fucking sick. Like, uh, this is really scary because I'm very healthy. I very rarely get sick and I'm fucking real sick. Like, do your best, get vaccinated, do whatever you gotta do. But I was like, this is weird because this is not what everybody said it was going to be. This is not this death sentence. Three days later, six days later, I'm working out with a hundred percent energy. I had no problems at all. I did 10 rounds in the bag six days later, just to see. I was like, let's see. I feel great. Like, let's see how I feel like endurance wise. It was a hundred percent. I felt totally normal six days later. It's like, this is what we shut the fucking world down for and didn't tell anybody to get healthier? Didn't tell anybody about vitamin D? I was very fortunate that I had

• 2:40:30Joe Rogan?

  a very good doctor who is very into nutrition, very into supplementation and he was prescribing me corsetin and zinc and you want to be really up on all your vitamin C and D and D3 and make sure that you take it with K2 and magnesium. Like, he was on the ball. So I was on the ball and I was like, okay, why don't we tell people this? And how come everyone's mad at me? Why are you mad at me for getting healthy? This is crazy.

• 2:40:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:40:57Joe Rogan?

  It was fascinating to watch that psy-op. It was, that was the weirdest thing to watch it turned on me.

• 2:41:03Speaker 03

  You, yeah, you became the media, like the, the medium that they used for the psy-op.

• 2:41:09Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:41:10Speaker 03

  And I can't imagine how that feels.

• 2:41:10Joe Rogan?

  It was weird. It was weird, but I was also getting a lot of support too. It was, it wasn't all, um, people mad at me. There was a lot of people mad at me, but I just stayed off social media. But there was also a lot of people that were supporting me. Like, hey, what about, why is he healthy? Like, why is he okay? How come, how come, you know, this 54-year-old guy didn't just drop dead like you said everybody was going to?

• 2:41:33Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:41:33Joe Rogan?

  Why is he making a video three days later and feels great? The fuck's going on?

• 2:41:39Speaker 03

  I will tell you, man, I have a YouTube video on my channel that is anti psyops, like how to spot psyops in action, and I copied that video that they made. I made a very, very similar intro. But the moment that I saw one doctor on YouTube had to not use, this was at the very beginning, he had to not use that word. He couldn't say certain words on YouTube like vaccine and all this stuff. I was like, 100%, this is

• 2:42:09Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:42:10Speaker 03

  This is insane.

• 2:42:11Joe Rogan?

  Well, all the algorithms were searching for it. So people would spell vax like V and then they would use like a dash and then an X. You know, they would do something to try to skirt around the algorithm.

• 2:42:23Speaker 03

  Yeah. So and then why is, that's the one thing, is someone credible being suppressed? Is a credible person being suppressed? And then when you see it tenfold, 100 people, all of these people that are being suppressed, if your idea is good, nobody has to be quiet. It's gonna catch on its own.

• 2:42:42Joe Rogan?

  Also, the counter to that is if your idea is bad, you can't just force it through. People are gonna figure it out eventually. They're gonna realize eventually, if you keep calling this stuff horse paste, veterinary medicine, and people are gonna find out, oh, wait a minute, it actually won the Nobel Prize, the inventor of it, for humans, for use in humans. And actually, it's on the World Health Organization list of essential medicines. Actually, it's been prescribed billions, not millions, billions of times. Like, what the fuck is going on where you're saying this is horse paste?

• 2:43:14Speaker 03

  50 plus, 100 years.

• 2:43:16Joe Rogan?

  It's been around quite a long time and it has an incredible safety profile, which was the wildest thing about them going all in and calling it horse paste. Cause like, you are doing this at the expense of your credibility for people who just want short-term profits and you're killing your business. Your business is people want to believe you when you're talking about the news. And now, they don't.

• 2:43:40Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:43:41Joe Rogan?

  They don't over something really stupid. Well, you could have just ignored me. You didn't have to do that. You could have just ignored me.

• 2:43:47Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:43:48Joe Rogan?

  It probably would have had very little effect.

• 2:43:50Speaker 03

  But then.

• 2:43:50Joe Rogan?

  My video probably would have had very little effect. People probably wouldn't have believed me. Oh, yeah, bet he feels like shit and he's lying. That would have been fine.

• 2:43:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:43:56Joe Rogan?

  But instead, they went all in and too many people were paying attention to it. And by that time, too many people had already had COVID and gotten over it and going, what the fuck is going on? And then there was the whole thing where they were saying you had to get vaccinated, even if you had suffered from COVID and recovered, where you had natural immunity that was proven to be seven times stronger. It was a pure psyop.

• 2:44:17Speaker 03

  Yeah. So, and the big thing there was when I, when I can make fun of Joe Rogan and like I can shame Joe Rogan, if I could do that to you, one of the, one of the more popular guys in the country, especially when it comes to media, then I can, I can, I can just make that a trickle down compliance effect.

• 2:44:36Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:44:36Speaker 03

  Where I can get millions of people to comply because if they're gonna do that to Rogan, that might happen to me.

• 2:44:42Joe Rogan?

  Well, I'm sure it worked. I'm sure it worked. I'm sure a lot of people complied after they saw that. They saw those attacks. And you know, I met a lot of people that would accuse me of spreading misinformation. Like, what did I say? Tell me what I said.

• 2:44:54Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:44:54Joe Rogan?

  What was misinformation? What was wrong? And they can't even tell you. They didn't even know what, they were just like saying something because you were there. Like, they, they felt like they had to say that. It was a fascinating time. And what's interesting is coming out of that now, you know, the country coming out of that now, I think people were way more skeptical. Way more skeptical believing the media and way more skeptical believing the government. Way more skeptical. I think that was a huge mistake for short-term profits. I think they still would have made a ton of money. A lot of people are scared. They would have taken it anyway. They lied about all the fucking studies anyway. They, they, they were doing well. They, but they sacrificed their ability to do this in the future.

• 2:45:38Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:45:39Joe Rogan?

  They gave their hand.

• 2:45:41Speaker 03

  I don't know who said this quote, man, but. It's, I think it's the best quote about society is like, a society that grows is when men, and it's an old quote, but, "Men plant trees whose shade they will never enjoy."

• 2:45:54Joe Rogan?

  Hmm, yeah.

• 2:45:56Speaker 03

  Thinking about the future and not this, this one little spike in profit, and that's when a society flourishes, and when we're, when we're doing that kind of stuff.

• 2:46:04Joe Rogan?

  Well, I think it's essentially a symptom of a system that's been captured, right? It's, the media works for them because they support the media financially, you know? Callie Means has talked about this, that the reason why they sponsor so many television shows is not that they want to sell more drugs, it's to keep those shows from criticizing them.

• 2:46:31Speaker 03

  That's terrifying.

• 2:46:33Joe Rogan?

  It is terrifying. It's terrifying that it's effective and it works and that we're one of only two countries on earth that allows them to advertise pharmaceutical drugs.

• 2:46:43Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:46:44Joe Rogan?

  Because we know the commercials are psyops.

• 2:46:46Speaker 03

  Propagated.

• 2:46:47Joe Rogan?

  I mean, I mean, when you see that lady and she's dancing with her daughter in the field and they're spinning around circles and now she's happy and everything's great, but you're fucking depressed and you're at home, you're like, "Oh, I want the music to play. I want to be dancing in the field. I want to be at the cookout with all the fellas, having a good old time."

• 2:47:04Speaker 03

  I can't do that with my psoriasis.

• 2:47:06Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I can't do that with whatever I'm on, with whatever's wrong with me. Give me, give me what you got and get me into that commercial.

• 2:47:12Speaker 03

  Yeah. And it, it's effective. It's very effective. They've been doing this for a long time and they've got a playbook, written by Edward Bernays, of all people, wrote this book, and the book's called Crystallizing Public Opinion. And he, and you can see it in every one of these operations, and it's a short book. You can read it in like two hours. Every one of these things follows that playbook of psyops.

• 2:47:35Joe Rogan?

  Which makes sense why he would change the name of the Department of War to the Department of Defense.

• 2:47:39Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:47:40Joe Rogan?

  Like, it's way more palatable.

• 2:47:42Speaker 03

  Yeah. And he's also the reason that bacon became part of American breakfast.

• 2:47:46Joe Rogan?

  Well, kudos to him for that, because that was a good move.

• 2:47:49Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:47:50Joe Rogan?

  Bacon's pretty solid.

• 2:47:51Speaker 03

  Funny, he was Sigmund Freud's nephew.

• 2:47:54Joe Rogan?

  Whoa.

• 2:47:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:47:56Joe Rogan?

  What if they did coke together?

• 2:47:58Speaker 03

  The fuck.

• 2:48:01Speaker 03

  The father of propaganda is Sigmund Freud's relative nephew.

• 2:48:06Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy.

• 2:48:08Speaker 03

  Sigmund Freud helped raise this guy.

• 2:48:09Joe Rogan?

  So, did you read his book?

• 2:48:11Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:48:12Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. What does it say in there?

• 2:48:13Speaker 03

  So essentially, it is, it's capturing a mass public attention and making the desired outcome about identity, belonging, and being part of a tribe. So, to give you an example, Virginia Slims hired him to say like, hey, it's just men that are smoking our cigarettes. And he's like, yeah, well, women need to smoke. You want women to smoke? I'm like, yeah, let's do it. So he launches this thing called Torches of Freedom. Are you familiar with this?

• 2:48:41Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you were telling me about it.

• 2:48:42Speaker 03

  Oh, my God. Just bring a photo of this if you can, because it's, I'm getting excited about this. It just, these people were compromised in such a crazy way. So he says, women are told not to smoke. So he goes against all of this stuff at the beginning. Women are told not to smoke. Everybody tells you you can't smoke in public. This is about women's rights. It has nothing to do with cigarettes. So he organized this massive women's right movement.

• 2:49:14Joe Rogan?

  Look at that. An ancient prejudice has been removed.

• 2:49:16Speaker 03

  Isn't it? Just.

• 2:49:18Joe Rogan?

  Look at the fucking chain. American Intelligence. Look at that. The chain says, American Intelligence around the wrist. Lucky Strike cigarettes. That's so weird.

• 2:49:32Speaker 03

  I'm sorry. Yeah, it wasn't just Virginia Slims. It was Big Tobacco. There's a picture of the Torches of Freedom.

• 2:49:38Joe Rogan?

  Clicking that one with the lady, right there by your cursor? Keep a slender figure, that one. Believe in yourself.

• 2:49:44Speaker 04

  That's an updated meme. I don't know what that is.

• 2:49:47Joe Rogan?

  Oh, is it? Is it fake? It seems like it. The font's totally different.

• 2:49:50Speaker 03

  Meme font.

• 2:49:51Joe Rogan?

  Don't test one brand alone. Compare them all. Yeah. They can't advertise cigarettes anymore, right? Isn't that the rule?

• 2:50:01Speaker 04

  Not on TV. I don't know.

• 2:50:02Joe Rogan?

  Can they do it in magazines? Can they still? Remember the Marlboro Man? Didn't he die of cancer?

• 2:50:06Speaker 04

  I don't know if I buy his magazines.

• 2:50:07Joe Rogan?

  Remember the Marlboro Man?

• 2:50:08Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:50:08Joe Rogan?

  Fucking, everybody wanted to be that dude.

• 2:50:10Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:50:10Joe Rogan?

  He was like the original John Dutton.

• 2:50:12Speaker 03

  Denim jacket.

• 2:50:12Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Out there on the range, looking all rugged. I wish I was him, you know?

• 2:50:18Joe Rogan?

  Cigarette ads are restricted in magazines in the United States, but are still present in some magazines. So like, federal law limits tobacco advertisements in magazines and on billboards. However, tobacco companies can advertise in magazines that have at least eighty-five percent adult readers. Oh, so porn.

• 2:50:36Joe Rogan?

  So it's like Playboy, right? It's mostly adults. Mostly adults. US cigarette.

• 2:50:42Speaker 03

  Sorry, you want me to read that?

• 2:50:43Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, what does it say?

• 2:50:46Joe Rogan?

  "US cigarette giant starts advertising again in magazines, millions of young readers." Oh. Two thousand thirteen. Oh, that's Britain. Yeah. So, I mean, do you think advertising should be legal? It's a weird thing, right? I think about sometimes when I read my Spotify ads, which is why I don't, I, I say no to a lot of things that, um, want to advertise. Like, some things come across and I'm like, wait, whoa, whoa, whoa, what is that? What is that? Is that real? Is that, is that legit? Is this funky? Is that a good product? Is this, is this anything? I, whatever, this sounds like bullshit. You know? So I want to make sure, is this something that I would use? Or is this something legitimate? Because advertising is kinda creepy.

• 2:51:28Speaker 03

  It is.

• 2:51:29Joe Rogan?

  But, but it's not if it's cool. Like, if you're doing an ad for a Corvette ZR1, I could do an ad for a ZR1. I'll tell you that. Fucking things, this shit. It's amazing. Like, you should know that if you get in one of those things and drive, it will be fucking incredible. That's real. Like, it's a solid product. It's a real thing. Like, I could feel good about that ad. Cause I know that's a real awesome piece of engineering and, and technology that they've created.

• 2:51:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:51:56Joe Rogan?

  But if it's not, like, if you're trying to convince people, some shady shit.

• 2:52:02Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:52:02Joe Rogan?

  It's tricky.

• 2:52:03Speaker 03

  And that's the thing, like, everybody wants to regulate or deregulate things. Like, let's make this diet illegal. But you're not, you can't regulate health any more than you can regulate morality. It's like when they made alcohol illegal, that everybody just went into.

• 2:52:20Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:52:20Speaker 03

  So instead of making, you have to inform the public instead of restrict them. Like, you're not gonna regulate morality and, and good decisions, and it just won't happen. You have to get, like, we have to stand on freedom and then educate. Like, maybe there needs to be a cigarette warning label on, like, whatever's put in these die and stuff, like, which I'm not educated on. But all this, like, chemicals and stuff in the foods may need a label instead of a regulation.

• 2:52:43Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:52:44Speaker 03

  So maybe that's, that's the ticket. I don't think there's a right answer. It's like so many of these issues, it's there's no right answer about everything.

• 2:52:52Joe Rogan?

  I mean, did the ads on cigarettes where they show like may cause cancer, may cause a little birth, did that even put a dent in the amount of people that smoked cigarettes?

• 2:53:00Speaker 03

  No, but it made a, it may have, but it made a better informed public. Like at least you knew it.

• 2:53:06Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:53:07Speaker 03

  You're doing, you're willingly now taking the poison.

• 2:53:09Joe Rogan?

  Right, right. And you should be able to, just like you should be able to eat junk food. Like when people talk about like getting rid of Doritos or making them change the thing like, hey, hold up. Doritos as they are are fucking amazing. Just don't eat them every day, stupid. You should eat them like knowing this is just mouth pleasure. I'm gonna just have some fucking delicious Cool Ranch Doritos. They're not good for you. They're not pretend to be good for you. You're not supposed to eat them for nutrition, dumbass. This is like mouth recreation. That's what that is.

• 2:53:41Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:53:41Joe Rogan?

  It's not really food. Are you gonna feel like shit afterwards? Yeah, if you eat the whole bag. Are you gonna get sick? Well, if you eat them every day, all day, you'll get sick. Don't do that. Have them every now and then. You're watching a movie, open up a bag of Doritos. What's the big fucking deal? Not a big deal.

• 2:53:56Speaker 03

  The only thing that's gonna happen if you make it illegal is they'll just slap a label on it that says for external use only.

• 2:54:02Joe Rogan?

  Bathing in Doritos. But it's just one of those things. It was like, I don't think you should tell people they can't have things that aren't healthy for them. Cause there's a lot of things like cookies and cake and shit. It's just not fucking healthy for you. Are you gonna kill the baking industry? Like, that's dumb. That doesn't make any sense to me. Like, you should just know what you're doing. You should, and unfortunately, a lot of people don't. A lot of people aren't very educated as far as food. Give your throat a vacation.

• 2:54:31Joe Rogan?

  Smoke a fresh cigarette. Cam- unfiltered camels, they're fucking, they're the worst.

• 2:54:37Joe Rogan?

  Oh my god.

• 2:54:38Speaker 03

  Did you see that, that second paragraph of that?

• 2:54:40Joe Rogan?

  What, no, what did it say?

• 2:54:41Speaker 03

  It said, there's a peppery stuff in other tobaccos that stays in your throat.

• 2:54:45Joe Rogan?

  Oh, it's the peppery dust left in tobacco by inefficient cleaning methods that makes you cough.

• 2:54:51Speaker 04

  They're actually advertising the, the cellophane on the pack to keep, it's keeping it more fresh.

• 2:54:56Joe Rogan?

  Of course it is, Jamie.

• 2:54:58Speaker 03

  The humidor pack.

• 2:54:59Joe Rogan?

  There's no stale, crumbly, parched tobaccos, the fine Turkish and mild domestic tobaccos, of which camels are blended, come to you in prime, factory, fresh condition, thanks to the humidor pack.

• 2:55:11Speaker 03

  Read that last sentence.

• 2:55:13Joe Rogan?

  The last one, "Give your throat a vacation, switch to camels for just one day, then leave them, if you can."

• 2:55:20Speaker 04

  Sounds like Frito-Lays.

• 2:55:21Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you can't eat just one.

• 2:55:23Speaker 04

  Pop-Tee, Stop, all that stuff.

• 2:55:25Speaker 03

  Is it Pringles?

• 2:55:26Speaker 04

  I mean, that's both of them there.

• 2:55:28Joe Rogan?

  A lot of them, you bet you can't eat just one. Yeah, they're good. They're good. Just don't eat them every day, stupid.

• 2:55:34Speaker 03

  One of these-

• 2:55:34Joe Rogan?

  But if they take fucking potato chips off the shelf, if they take ruffles off the shelf, I'm gonna be pissed, RFK. All right? Leave all that garbage up there. Leave Coca-Cola up there. Let them have it.

• 2:55:45Speaker 03

  You can't regulate good decisions.

• 2:55:47Joe Rogan?

  No, but you should just know what you're doing. But if you know what you're doing, you take care of yourself, it's not bad to have cake every now and then. A little bit of cake.

• 2:55:55Speaker 03

  I completely agree.

• 2:55:57Joe Rogan?

  Um, but there's a lot of value in what you're teaching and what you're explaining to people. And I think if more people understand how psychological manipulation is used, they'll be less vulnerable to it.

• 2:56:12Speaker 03

  And I think one of the things that, the first things that we teach people is called the firewall illusion. So like, if you went to Best Buy today and like picked up a laptop, and I was like, Joe, you should get the antiviral or whatever software there, and you was like, no, I don't believe in viruses, I'm immune to it.

• 2:56:31Speaker 03

  That is, that's a problem. So if you believe you can't be persuaded by these things, if you believe that social media can't persuade me.

• 2:56:40Joe Rogan?

  Doesn't work on me, bro.

• 2:56:41Speaker 03

  You are the suggestible person.

• 2:56:43Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:56:43Speaker 03

  Like, your brain versus a one trillion dollar computer, you're going to lose. I'm going to lose, and I can spot all of the things, and I'm still gonna lose.

• 2:56:52Joe Rogan?

  What do you think is the biggest impact in terms of social media on the way people think?

• 2:56:58Speaker 03

  Rephrase that.

• 2:56:59Joe Rogan?

  What the, like, social media obviously is having some sort of psychological manipulation on people.

• 2:57:05Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:57:05Joe Rogan?

  What do you think the biggest impact it's having on people, other than the theft of your time?

• 2:57:09Speaker 03

  Tribal confusion. So, I get to automatically, I don't have to hack your brain, I don't have to convince you of anything. All I have to do is tell you a whole shitload of people believe this one thing, and all that is, it may not get you to keel over right away, but it gets you to say, wow, it's, it's starting to become a pretty popular idea. I'm gonna start to entertain, it might start entertaining that. So, technology has outpaced our brain's ability to adapt, period. We cannot adapt. Our brains haven't changed in 200,000 years. If I can trick the mammal part of your brain that doesn't even speak English, not even English, so all I have to do is get the human part of your brain to translate what I'm seeing, what you're seeing on the phone, into an image in your mammalian brain,

• 2:57:54Speaker 03

  and think that there is, it's brand-new something weird that you're not, haven't seen before, like, is that sound familiar on social media?

• 2:58:01Joe Rogan?

  Sure.

• 2:58:02Speaker 03

  Weird, unusual.

• 2:58:02Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:58:03Speaker 03

  Novelty generates focus. Then there's an authority, because you're thinking a lot, this thing has 97,000 likes in the last hour, or whatever, authority. Tribe, tribe is there, it's built into the likes.

• 2:58:16Joe Rogan?

  And then a lot of bots in the comments that agree with it.

• 2:58:18Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:58:19Joe Rogan?

  Chime in, and...

• 2:58:20Speaker 03

  Yeah, can't believe he's doing this, what a narcissist, and all that kind of stuff.

• 2:58:23Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:58:24Speaker 03

  I've got, I've got a hold, I've put a leash around your mammalian brain, and people don't realize how fast it happens, how fast that stuff can happen. What do you think, like, if I'm doing, if I'm having you on social media for 16 hours a day, which is like, I think 11 hours is like a common number for people, for us kids, especially. If I've got you for 16 hours with advanced algorithms and technology designed to manipulate you specifically, and in 1972 they could talk someone into murder in 45 minutes.

• 2:59:00Speaker 03

  If you just imagine what's possible.

• 2:59:03Joe Rogan?

  And know that governments are utilizing that. That that's a, it's not just people's opinions. And it's not just groups of people that are trying to convince other people to think the way they think. It's actual governments that are involved in trying to manipulate narratives.

• 2:59:19Speaker 03

  Yeah. And it's, if you, and if you're thinking it's a left and a right issue, that's also, you may be a victim.

• 2:59:27Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's a big one. It's not, this us versus them shit is nonsense. Most people aren't even left or right. Most people just have a conglomeration of opinions that they've sort of accepted as their own.

• 2:59:38Speaker 03

  Yeah. And, and, I mean, JFK got killed for saying stuff like that. Like, it's not left, it's not right, let's bring this together, let's end corruption. All of these plans, we're gonna release all these files, all these documents, I'm not, you probably, you've had experts on here about that stuff.

• 2:59:54Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm. Well, I don't know what's going on, and we won't know really until these files actually get released. And what's gonna be in them? What the fuck are they, what is it gonna say? We did it?

• 3:00:02Speaker 03

  When is that gonna happen?

• 3:00:03Joe Rogan?

  I don't know. Cash Patel's in, you know?

• 3:00:06Speaker 03

  Is he gonna do it?

• 3:00:07Joe Rogan?

  We'll see. He apparently wants to. I mean, I think there's probably a lot of sorting through to figure out what to say and how to say it and what to release. I feel like they should just release it all and let the internet hounds go at it. Let them figure out, they're the best at it anyway. And they're the most psychotic. They'll fucking, they'll be working sixteen hours a day until they figure it all out.

• 3:00:26Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 3:00:27Joe Rogan?

  You know?

• 3:00:28Speaker 03

  So let me tell you, when it, when it comes to all these beliefs formation, I'll tell you the formula for hypnosis.

• 3:00:33Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 3:00:33Speaker 03

  And this, and I don't think anybody's ever said this. I've never said it out loud, not even in my training. It's enhanced a level of focus and then micro-compliances. So like, if I'm a, have you seen the street performers that would hypnotize somebody in a bar or like, you know, like, to do something silly, or maybe they're helping them? So the first step is, like, if I'm hypnotizing you and it's in a social setting, the first couple of steps are, alright, come over here, now stand to the left, now move your legs just a little bit further, now spread them further apart so you have some balance. Alright, now just make sure you have some range of motion, go ahead and put your arms out. None of those are meaningful.

• 3:01:08Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 3:01:09Speaker 03

  They're all meaningless. All I'm doing is get you to comply, comply, comply, comply. And that's just the first, like, thirty seconds. I've got you to comply with me fifteen times. We haven't even started the hypnosis thing yet. So it's just you're you're not aware that you're becoming compliant. You just think I'm going through some motions. It's just hijacking the mammal brain. Yeah, so it's compliance, compliance, compliance. And then it's just like, go ahead and stare over there. I want you to look at that light up there. And we're going to just focus on that light up there and just let everything go. So it's just a lot of focus, right? And I'm and I'll say something like, I can already tell. I've been doing this for 20 years. You're going to be really good at this and everything's going to be just fine. You'll be able to hear my voice the whole time. It's not a coma. You'll be able to stand and maintain perfect balance.

• 3:01:54Speaker 03

  You'll be completely okay. Authority. Yeah. And no matter what happens, you're going to walk out of this a better person. Everybody's going to respect you more. And and I'll frame it as like us hypnotists call the ability to go into hypnosis unconscious intelligence. But I'll only say that if you're an intelligence person. So if you're a significance driven person, I'll say we call this unconscious power. This ability to go into hypnosis. So I'll make it about your identity right away. Yeah. And then there's an increase in dissociation. Like there's one part of you doing this, one part of you doing that. So that's like the induction where they're saying, oh, all the way down. That kind of stuff. Yeah.

• 3:02:34Speaker 03

  But that's if you look at social media, the final step of hypnosis is fractionation. Out a slightly out of trance, back in. And every time you go back down into that trance, you go deeper. You go if you put an EEG on someone's head and you I think you've had Dr. David Spiegel on here before, or you've at least had Darren Brown. Yeah, I've had Darren Brown on. They've done studies on this, like this fractionation process increases the amount of theta waves that are going on in your brain, which is the theta waves of hypnosis. So from the ages of one to eight, give or take, your brain's in theta like 80% of the day. That's why we learn so fast and we can do all that stuff. So up and down, up and down. And if you go back, the next time, for anybody watching this, the next time you start scrolling

• 3:03:19Speaker 03

  through social media, I want you to watch how it's going to peak a positive experience for two or three videos in a row, and it's going to start going downhill. And it's going to go back up and it's going to go downhill. And every ad that you see, the algorithm doesn't do this on purpose. The algorithm does it because it's effective. Every time you see an ad is going to be at one of those downtroffs.

• 3:03:44Speaker 03

  They're not going to spike you up and have you feel good like with that guy putting on the color glasses that was colorblind and he can see and he's crying and all that. They're not going to show you an ad after that. They'll show you an ad at the bottom. It's every time. And I don't think that's programmed into the algorithm. I think the algorithm adapted because that is the effective way to do it.

• 3:04:03Joe Rogan?

  Jesus. Well, listen, here's your book, Behavior Ops. This is a fat book, dude. There's a lot going on in here. It's all indexed and... Um, is this available everywhere?

• 3:04:16Speaker 03

  Yeah, Amazon and my website.

• 3:04:19Joe Rogan?

  What is the website?

• 3:04:20Speaker 03

  NCI dot university.

• 3:04:22Joe Rogan?

  All right. Well, thank you, man. It was very interesting. Fun, fun conversation. Appreciate it. Appreciate it. All right. Bye, everybody.

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