How to Handle Someone You Disagree With ft. Tim Tebow

What do you do when people criticize you, misunderstand you, or challenge what you believe? Tim Tebow joins me for a conversation about what it really means to stand your ground without losing respect for the person across from you. We talk about handling criticism, knowing when to speak up and when to walk away, getting out of the comparison trap, and surrounding yourself with people who will tell you the truth. Check out Tim’s newest book, 40 Days to Look Again: https://timtebow.com/books/ Learn more about Tim’s foundation and how you can get involved: https://timtebowfoundation.org/ Additional resources Tim mentioned in this episode: https://www.missingkids.org/home Bark Phone Get help. Text "THORN" to 741741 to confidentially speak with a trained counselor. Join me on Supercast for ad-free episodes, bonus content, and AMAs: https://jefferson.supercast.com/ Leave me a voicemail to be featured on the show! https://www.jeffersonfisher.com/ask-jefferson Order The Next Conversation Workbook: https://www.jeffersonfisher.com/workbook Thank you to our sponsors: Seed. Go to https://www.seed.com/jefferson and use code 25JEFFERSON to get 25% off your first order. Cozy Earth. Upgrade Your Every Day. Get 20% off at cozyearth.com/jefferson or use code JEFFERSON at check out. BetterHelp. Click https://betterhelp.com/jeffersonfisher for a discount on your first month of therapy. Order my book, The Next Conversation, or listen to the full audiobook today. Like what you hear? Don’t forget to subscribe and leave a 5-star review! Suggest a topic or ask a question for me to answer on the show! Want a FREE communication tip each week? Click here to join my newsletter. Join My School of Communication Watch my podcast on YouTube Follow me on Instagram Follow me on TikTok Follow me on LinkedIn Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:29Speaker 01

  It's better to stand for something and have enemies than stand for nothing and have fake friends. When we have disagreements, we devalue people because of it. That just leads to absolute destruction. Destruction of relationships, destruction of culture, destruction of society. How do you show restraint in communication, especially when somebody's disagreeing with you? If someone's trying to argue and they don't want to necessarily hear, that might be a place where you just have a very compassionate response in exiting that situation. How do you respond to somebody who insults you? Sometimes you need to look and say, is that true? We need criticism in our life. We want other people that love us, but love us enough to also tell us the truth. And then sometimes there's people that just want to tear you down, and that's very different. It is painful to have people criticize you. It does hurt.

• 1:13Speaker 01

  I was really struggling early on at Florida dealing with the criticism. And I went to go see my dad, my biggest hero and role model on planet Earth. And I said, Dad, if all these people that are criticizing me, if they got to know me, they really feel like they would like me. Son, they would, because you're likeable. But some people won't want to get to know you because they won't want to then like you. What are three things that you have to have to be able to stand your ground in the face of criticism? My first would be... How do you show restraint in communication, especially when somebody's disagreeing with you? Well, I think understanding context and culture is really important. Where are you in the world? What's the context of what we're talking about? What's the culture?

• 1:58Speaker 01

  What's respectful? What's not? We get to travel a lot of places around the world, and there's certain things that are common norms that aren't necessarily the norm here. Yeah. So I think that's something that's really important. And then I think it's trying to understand and prayerfully consider what's the goal? And what could have a chance to be impactful in this moment? Reading the room, trying to have wisdom and discernment, sometimes in that moment, prayerfully asking God for discernment in this moment. If someone's trying to argue with you and they don't want to necessarily hear, maybe that might be a place where you just have a very soft-spoken, quiet, compassionate response in thanking that person

• 2:43Speaker 01

  and trying to find, just being kind to that moment and maybe, you know, exiting that situation. For sure. Maybe there's another moment where maybe someone isn't trying to argue, but they're trying to intellectually process maybe a disagreement. Yeah. And now there's more of a chance to have a really healthy back and forth and get to a place where there can be common ground. And I don't mean common ground as agreement. And I think that's one of the things we feel like is, you know, my biggest hero and role model on planet Earth was my dad. And there were so many things we disagreed. But because it was underlined with such respect, so much respect for him and so much admiration and love for him,

• 3:28Speaker 01

  that I could walk away from a disagreement, still having that. And I feel like it's one of the things that's a problem in our society is when we have disagreements, then we devalue people because of it. And I think that for us to heal as a society, we can't devalue people because we disagree. Yeah. Like, their value doesn't come or go because of my opinion on something. Their value was stamped when God made them in His image, and then when Jesus went to the cross. Period, end of story. And we should always see people that way. But so many times when there's a disagreement or you don't see eye to eye or you don't like the same team or whatever it is, you know, then there's a devaluing of people. Right. And I think that just leads to absolute destruction. Destruction of relationships,

• 4:11Speaker 01

  destruction of culture, destruction of society. And so, that's a little bit of a tangent, but the point is in those conversations, trying to read it. And are we, do we feel like the people we're talking to are trying, is it the place to have a healthy back and forth? Or is it the place that, man, it's just going to stir up a quarrel? Right. And then that's different. And now that's probably a place to walk away, and that's maybe where, a place to try to have restraint. Yeah. I, um... I don't know. How about you? Yeah. For me, it has a lot to do with, the question that I ask myself is right now, am I trying to learn something or am I trying to prove something? Yeah. And I think when I get into that,

• 4:55Speaker 01

  really quick to get to that mindset. You know, I, if there was anything that I have always kind of seared into my brain, is, you know, James, be quick to listen, slow to speak, slow to anger. And that right there is everything. I mean, that's the model. Well, I feel like what you're saying is so important because also James is so clear about humility. Yeah. That God is opposed to the proud, but He gives grace to the humble. Submit therefore to God, resist the devil. He will flee from you, draw near to God, and He will draw near to you. And I feel like what you're saying also ties in because when we have a posture of humility, it's going to be a lot easier for us to listen before we speak. Yeah.

• 5:40Speaker 01

  It's going to be a lot easier for us to try to be a learner in that moment than it is to try to be a shower in that moment. The question is, do you already first have a posture of humility? I think that that's kind of the first check on your dashboard. I think so. Yeah. My dad used to tell me, and I like that you point out that your biggest role model is your dad, but yet you all had so many disagreements. What my dad would tell me when we would have one of our many disagreements, is he'd say, you don't got to like it. You just need to understand it. That would be his line, which I did not appreciate at the time. I can probably say. I did not appreciate it at the time. But he would, I'd be upset, and he'd go, that's okay. You don't have to like it. Yeah. Why do I have to do that? Because I said so. Yeah, but you need to understand it. Exactly.

• 6:25Speaker 01

  That was, that was, he was giving me that freedom of not devaluing my thoughts or my feelings about it. It was, he was giving me that freedom by saying, hey, you don't have to, you don't have to like it. That's, you know, I'm expecting you not to like it. That's right. You just need to understand it. Yeah. It's anywhere I come from. And I would also add that I think one of the things that I felt like my dad did really, really well, and my guess is yours really did as well, is in those places, I always could trust beyond a shadow of a doubt he was doing what he believed was best for our family, for God, and for me. Like, I didn't have to doubt that.

• 7:08Speaker 01

  Maybe I could disagree with how he was doing it, but I could always know that he was trying to do what was best. Yeah. For me. For sure. Like, and that was... That gives you more security. Gives you way more security. Like, you might see a different path, but I could trust he's doing it because he truly believed it was best. Do you feel that, I'm just going to say, you have a more soft-spoken personality, at least in the time that I've spent with you? Do you find that that's been an advantage or a disadvantage in hard conversations that you've needed to have? I think there's been so many times in my life

• 7:48Speaker 01

  that I have failed in a relationship, whether that's been of a, like a team member and, you know, one of our teams, like our, you know, like the foundation or our for-profit teams and some of the companies. And because I wasn't willing to have a hard conversation earlier in the moment and just get right to the truth. I think that's something that I got to watch my dad model. And I just don't know if I've always had the courage to live it out because I've also wanted to please people. Sometimes you try to see the best in them. Yeah.

• 8:32Speaker 01

  But what's, what's happened sometimes in that, you try to see the best, but then you walk away sometimes thinking the worst because you weren't really willing to have a really truth-telling conversation. Yeah. And then you start... Then you start overthinking. Yeah, then you start beating yourself up. Beating yourself up, you know? And so I think there are some times that I could be soft-spoken, but I don't know if a lot of people that have just seen me like on certain clips here or there say that because sometimes I can get very passionate and very fired up. Absolutely, yeah. That doesn't mean it's an always thing. It doesn't mean it's an always thing. To me, I have to imagine that...

• 9:12Speaker 02

  For those, there are people listening who tend to be more self-spoken. And there are those who might be more on, let's say, your dad's spectrum where it's they're very outspoken.

• 9:22Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 9:22Speaker 02

  They are more than happy to tell you where they stand on everything. Where for those that are listening that say, you know, I resonate with somebody who I tend to avoid conflict a little bit more than I should. I do tend to people please. I do tend to have a softer register. I have a, I'm just more tend to be soft spoken. To me, there is a major strength in that. And that is to be able to feel more than focus on saying more. Because I find that especially in times of conflict, it's the person who's willing to diffuse and let it settle.

• 10:03Speaker 02

  And you know, speak more softly, tends to get to the other side of it. Now, it doesn't hurt that, you know, you're humongous and, and, you know, you're gonna...

• 10:15Speaker 01

  But I also feel like that plays into it. I believe communication, I say this to our team all the time. I really believe that your posture and your demeanor and your size, big or small, plays into it.

• 10:26Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 10:27Speaker 01

  Like I have some great friends that could say certain things and I love them very much on a stage that I couldn't say. Because their posture is a certain way, they have a way of, of talking that's a certain, that's a tone that's different. I naturally probably am a little bit more soft spoken, but sometimes my tone can be aggressive, especially when I get fired up.

• 10:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 10:50Speaker 01

  It doesn't, I don't mean to do that. I can just very quickly get fired up and passionate about what I'm talking about.

• 10:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 10:56Speaker 01

  But I have to be...

• 10:57Speaker 02

  I've already witnessed it in a short time.

• 10:59Speaker 01

  But I have to be, I have to be very careful with that at times. I have to be very careful.

• 11:03Speaker 02

  Why is that?

• 11:04Speaker 01

  Because sometimes people and I not hear what you say, they just, but that tone might shut them off.

• 11:11Speaker 02

  Ah, coming out too strong.

• 11:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, I gotta really be careful of my tone in certain situations. I think that really plays a big part in, in communications. And I think in communications, like how you sit, how you stand, how you walk, how you talk on a stage, all of that plays into it. Like because, you know, maybe you're a little bit more size on a stage, that's gonna come across different than someone who doesn't have that. They might be a little bit more gregarious. And I know some communication coaches will like, you need to be big and be big on stage. I try to make myself way smaller on stage.

• 11:45Speaker 02

  Tell me why?

• 11:46Speaker 01

  Because my goal isn't to make myself look big. My goal is to make whatever I'm talking about, most importantly, Jesus, be the object of what I'm talking about. I want to get off of any pedestal that anybody puts me on because I don't deserve to be on there. There's only one person, that's King Jesus should be on that pedestal. And if I point to anyone, I want to point to him.

• 12:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 12:05Speaker 01

  I want to take myself off and say, no, not just because it's, in my opinion, a good way to communicate, but also because I believe it with my whole heart that I'm a black wretched sinner that was saved by grace, grace alone. For by grace you have been saved through faith. It is not of your works, it's a gift of God. So we can't boast about it, but if we do boast, we boast in the name that is above every name, and that is King Jesus.

• 12:26Speaker 02

  Amen.

• 12:26Speaker 01

  Right?

• 12:27Speaker 02

  So less of, less of you.

• 12:29Speaker 01

  And more of, of, more of Jesus, more of other people, more of wise counsel, more of, um, let's fight for God's kingdom. Let's, you know, um, let's tell people our gospel, all the things that I've convicted and want to do. Let's go fight for those that are, can't fight for themselves. Let's go fight for those that are suffering.

• 12:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 12:47Speaker 01

  Like, um, and I think there's times you naturally get fired up, but I also think if you stay at a level, you know, eight to 10 in, in passion in your talk, that's a, that's a lot of emotional weight you're putting on other people that they're listening to for a long time, especially if it's a 30, 45 minute talk. And I don't think people can handle it that long. It's a lot. So you want to be a little bit of a roller coaster. One of my mentors and some things, he said, you know, um, one of the ways he, he talks about it is he'll talk about, um, riding a bike. And you need to be a 10 speed bike when you communicate, right? You need to be able to, to change the tone. You're not going level 10 the whole time, right? That's a, it's especially for some of the topics that we talk about a lot.

• 13:31Speaker 01

  Anti-human trafficking, child exploitation, child sacrifice, grooming, sex extortion, all of these things, that's heavy if you're at a level 10, right? So we need to try to work to take people on a little bit of a journey and have changes speeds throughout it. So they're not just taking all of this maybe information and the tone, it's already hard information in the battle of good and evil. It's also if that tone and you're a bigger guy that's coming, that can feel like a lot. So how can I soften myself, soften the words? Because maybe, or soften the tone so that the words, they're already heavy enough sometimes. So I think it depends on what we're talking about. For, for me, those are a lot of things I talk about. So it's a little bit of the mindset with some of it too.

• 14:13Speaker 02

  Well, and also it helps that, so you're physically a bigger guy. And so when you are come at it of what approach is it? You have a really acute approach, which would be much more stronger. Do you have a, a lower authority frame in your voice that makes people want to hear you more? Because it's that, that contrast of hearing, like when you have somebody who's smaller and they have a very big voice, we go, wow, I want to hear this person. Same for somebody who's physically bigger, but maybe a little bit more of a, a softer approach. You go, wow, I want to, I want to listen to that a little bit more.

• 14:47Speaker 01

  And there's the, you know, most of the time, something I'm going to share, I'm going to get very fired up about.

• 14:53Speaker 02

  How long does it take you to get fired up? Is it like...

• 14:54Speaker 01

  It depends what I'm talking about. It could be stories, issues, things where...

• 14:59Speaker 02

  That's good.

• 14:59Speaker 01

  That passion can come and most of, I feel like it's conviction of things that

• 15:03Speaker 02

  For sure.

• 15:04Speaker 01

  I feel like God's let me experience and called me to.

• 15:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 15:08Speaker 01

  And so I think, and I also believe that, um, that being self-deprecating and trying to have a posture of humility is also, um, something that's so important to communicate, to show, try to show in communication. Not because you're trying to be humble, but because you believe that this is

• 15:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 15:31Speaker 01

  who God wants me to be.

• 15:33Speaker 02

  How do you communicate humility?

• 15:36Speaker 01

  Well, one of my favorite definitions to use is how modern psychologists talk about humility as an accurate view of oneself. And I really believe that because, um, when we take, and I've heard so many definitions over my life, strictly growing up in the church, you know, there's so many, you know, it's not thinking, you know, less of yourself, it's thinking of yourself less. And I like that too. I think that's a piece of it. But I really like how modern psychologists define it as an accurate view of yourself because you, when we do that in comparison to the cross in scripture, we take an accurate view, you realize, man, like so many times, my ambitions, selfish. So many times, my thoughts, my words, my actions, like I've missed the mark, which is what sin means, missing the mark.

• 16:19Speaker 01

  So when I take an accurate view of who I am, and then I take an accurate view of the love of Christ and the sacrifice of Jesus.

• 16:32Speaker 01

  Like when I am doing a better job of taking an accurate view of my own heart and my own mind, it helps me take a more accurate view of who King Jesus is. Maybe that's a better way to say it.

• 16:44Speaker 02

  I like that. I heard the other day, it stuck in my mind. What God does is take your, your biggest strength and make it your weakness so that it reveals His sufficiency. And, um, man, has that not been true in so many different areas of my life.

• 17:02Speaker 01

  And also think if your biggest strength is uncontrolled, it can turn into your biggest weakness.

• 17:05Speaker 02

  For sure.

• 17:06Speaker 01

  If unchecked, if not the right counsel, if not the right support, if not the right, um, guarding of that, it can turn into a weakness as well.

• 17:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, absolutely. I want to make sure that we break it down for listeners. I, I love the mindset talk that we have and where we're putting our vision in our mind. It's practically, like the mechanically, when you go, how do we communicate humility? What I hear is, one, are you examining the posture of your heart? And two, are you only talking about your desires?

• 17:43Speaker 01

  That's right. What's your goal when you talk? Whoever, it could be a, at the, at a table, it could be a dinner, it could be with friends, could be with your wife, could be at a big speech, could be a leadership talk. What's your actual goal? And I think that's part of how you examine it. When you truly take an accurate view of yourself and you look at yourself, is my goal based on how I come across at whatever that is? Or is my goal, how could I actually serve? How do they walk away? Do they walk away better because I invested in them? I also think that's a piece of it, right? Is my goal about me or is my goal about them?

• 18:18Speaker 02

  So let's turn the word goal and, and turn that into a question. Instead, instead of saying, what is our goal? I like what I'm hearing is, how can I best serve them?

• 18:27Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 18:30Speaker 02

  Man, I love that. Uh, because that's going to help you not only in everyday hard conversations with those that you love and those that you work with, but it's also great for if you're public speaking, if you're on some, you have some kind of platform that you have something to teach. It goes back to what you said at the beginning. Is it, is it because I've made it about me and I'm nervous because of how this is going to affect me? Or am I excited about how much I'm going to get to share with them?

• 18:53Speaker 01

  Well, it's also what I tried to do before we started. Yeah. I said, hey, what would your goal be for this time? Because I, I want to help support and meet those expectations.

• 19:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 19:02Speaker 01

  That was me in an imperfect way, just trying to understand so I could try to serve you in this time we have.

• 19:09Speaker 02

  Absolutely. I noticed it right away. I was like, this is great.

• 19:12Speaker 01

  It's great, but...

• 19:13Speaker 02

  No, it was. Um, I, I do have a question and I want, when I ask this, I want to put it in the frame of, there is somebody right now who's listening and it feels like they are, they are struggling and they are trying to stand up for what they believe and they are being mocked, they're being, uh, counted less, people are making fun of them.

• 19:36Speaker 02

  The question I have is, how do you respond to somebody who mocks you?

• 19:43Speaker 01

  That's a good question.

• 19:47Speaker 01

  I think there are times when you just walk away. I think there are times when

• 19:58Speaker 01

  it could be right in the right tone and the right posture to be able to share, especially if they're mocking other people that are with you and you feel like you need to help protect them.

• 20:11Speaker 01

  I do feel like we are missing a lot in our society and we just don't protect one another like we should. And I mean that in a lot of ways.

• 20:22Speaker 01

  And I'll share a quote to give a little bit of my, my heart with this answer would be, I was really struggling early on at Florida of just kind of dealing with the criticism. And I went to go see my dad and I said, Dad, like if all these people that are criticizing me, if they got to know me, Dad, I really feel like they would like me. And he's like, son, they would because you're likable. But some people won't want to get to know you because they won't want to then like you. And that really impacted me.

• 20:56Speaker 02

  Wow, that's a good one.

• 20:57Speaker 01

  Yeah. And it was right about the same time I was reading a book about Winston Churchill. At a time in his life when almost everybody had disdain for him. The Allies didn't like his strategy. They thought he was losing the war and everybody else was literally his enemy.

• 21:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 21:15Speaker 01

  You know, and he has a quote, he says, if you have enemies, good. It means you stood for something at least once in your life. And I remember thinking like, no, that can't be right. Like, how is it good to have enemies? Like, I was like, that can't be right. But was he what Winston Churchill understood that many times in my life I haven't understood? And I missed the mark on was yes, sometimes you will have enemies, but it is better to stand something, stand for something and have enemies than stand for nothing and have fake friends.

• 21:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 21:44Speaker 01

  And so much in our society, yes, we, we have a lot of sweet friends, but there's a lot of times we have fake friends.

• 21:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, we have fair weather friends.

• 21:54Speaker 01

  There are because they're friends because we just the same team. Or you just vote the same way or you go to the same church or you do these things.

• 22:02Speaker 02

  We went to high school together.

• 22:03Speaker 01

  Right? We went to high school together. But if there becomes a big enough disagreement, then it's, there's an exit there. I don't believe that's necessarily the Bible would talk about as a, a friend that sticks closer than a brother.

• 22:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 22:19Speaker 01

  And, and I do believe, man, if we stand for something,

• 22:25Speaker 01

  I do believe we will have enemies. But I also believe it is so much more important for us to have the conviction and the courage of conviction to stand for those things than to stand for nothing and just have fake friends, surface level relationships. And it doesn't mean that that's not painful. I don't want to say that. It is painful to have people criticize you. It does hurt.

• 22:49Speaker 01

  But it is so much more worth it than not standing for something.

• 22:53Speaker 02

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• 23:32Speaker 02

  Right now, you can go to seed.com/jefferson, use the code 25jefferson and get 25% off your very first order. By the way, these statements have not been evaluated by the FDA. These products are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease. Did I say that fast enough? And now back to the episode. There's somebody listening right now and they're, they're being mocked. What would be,

• 23:57Speaker 02

  what would be the words of encouragement that you would tell them right now?

• 24:01Speaker 01

  So was the author and perfecter of our faith in King Jesus. And he still anyways chose their best interests and he loved them. And as he's hanging on the cross, he said, Father, forgive them for they know not what they do. And boy, that's hard to do. And I'll tell you, I missed the mark like probably every day of my life.

• 24:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, you missed both. Yeah.

• 24:23Speaker 01

  But is that the goal? Yeah, that, those that mock us and dislike us, but maybe. You see, going back to the Winston Churchill quote too, is most people, I really didn't understand that. Quotes like that, so many quotes that he had. But now look at how most of the world looks at him with reverence. Right? Just because someone might not like you or understand you now, doesn't mean they won't admire you or respect you later because of the stand that you made today.

• 24:57Speaker 02

  I like that.

• 24:58Speaker 01

  And I, I've, I've seen friends of mine that have made stands and be disliked for it. And years later, people come back to them and they're like, man, I just want to tell you, I'm so sorry. I didn't understand you.

• 25:12Speaker 02

  I didn't know.

• 25:12Speaker 01

  And I didn't know, I didn't get it. And I just want to say I'm sorry. And yeah, I've had so many friends where I've gotten to hear those conversations of other people going to them and saying that, you know?

• 25:22Speaker 02

  Coming back to you and said, I didn't get it then.

• 25:25Speaker 01

  Well, not to, to me. I mean, I've been fortunate to have a few of those conversations, but I've just been with friends that have had other people go to them and they've made stands for certain things. And they've come back to them and they said, I didn't get it at the time. I just want to say I'm sorry. So even though it might look bleak in the moment,

• 25:44Speaker 01

  you never know what one day of that processing in someone's mind, what they, how they might view it in the future.

• 25:51Speaker 02

  I agree.

• 25:52Speaker 01

  And I think that's really important to consider. It's so easy for us to just be in the present, but you never know what happens when someone marinates on that. And maybe they go through, through some things in life and that's not saying we're always right. We might be need to be the ones where we go back to those people and we say we're sorry. I've had to do that quite a few times in my life.

• 26:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 26:10Speaker 01

  Where I didn't get it and I need to go, I say, man, I didn't get it. And I didn't have the respect or love for you I should have and I'm sorry.

• 26:17Speaker 01

  And so I think that's also something that's really important is just because of the way it looks or feels right now.

• 26:25Speaker 01

  That doesn't mean it's the end. And I would also share maybe a quote to go with that because it feels like the question you're asking is someone coming from a really hard place.

• 26:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 26:35Speaker 01

  And

• 26:35Speaker 02

  They just feel like the world's against them.

• 26:37Speaker 01

  And I think one of my encouragements would be maybe you feel like where you're at in life is like you were buried.

• 26:47Speaker 01

  And that is really hard. But do you know what looks, sounds and feels the exact same as being buried? Being planted.

• 26:59Speaker 02

  I like that.

• 26:59Speaker 01

  They look, sound, feel, everything the exact same, except one is death. The other is waiting to blossom.

• 27:10Speaker 02

  Life.

• 27:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 27:11Speaker 02

  It's growing.

• 27:12Speaker 01

  It's growing. Right? And I think we gotta have the mentality that if, to really know God loves us, he's got a plan for us. Those aren't just catchphrases we throw on bumper stickers or things that we say for 45 minutes at a church service. But if we really believe that, then we can really believe that we have been planted, even in the hard situations and sometimes most importantly in the hard situations. So what do I have to do? What's the goal? Let me till and let me pull the weeds. Let me get the soil right. So that at the right time, God might be the one that produces the fruit. And I felt like that many times in my life where I felt like, man, I have been buried.

• 27:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:54Speaker 01

  And I just, the conviction in my heart where I just felt like God saying, do you really believe that? So you really don't trust me? You really don't trust me right now?

• 28:05Speaker 02

  Is that what you told yourself when like these moments of your life where you felt like

• 28:12Speaker 02

  you were, these moments of your life where you felt like the whole world's against you? Friends or other people who don't know you? And it's much easier for them just to, to criticize and say the hurtful things where it feels like it's one against many. What's the thing that you say to yourself? What's the one thing you had to say to yourself to keep going?

• 28:35Speaker 01

  Well, probably quite a few things.

• 28:39Speaker 01

  One of them, I really believe from the bottom of my heart, that every day we have to fight to keep perspective. The right perspective, because I think perspective is the easiest thing to lose and the hardest thing to gain in life. I think that's a big piece of it, but under it, I would say that one of the struggles for me many times has been falling into the trap of maybe it's like, woe is me in comparison? You know, I, you know, you get you get cut from a team, right? And you say, well, you know, you go to church and you feel like you're in a great mood. You get home and you put down the game and you're like, man, these guys are playing. I wish I was doing that, you know?

• 29:21Speaker 01

  And then all of a sudden you start thinking, well, I, you know, never lost to that guy, beat that guy, you know? I could be going, doing this and I should be going to this. And what you're, but, but when I really boiled it down and really internalized it and processed and meditate on it, what I'm really saying to God in my subconscious is God, you made a mistake. Because that's what comparison is.

• 29:50Speaker 01

  Is I'm saying to God, even though I'm not really saying it, God, you made a mistake because I shouldn't be doing what that person is doing. So you made a mistake on my plan. And I do not believe that you can be a state, that you can be in a state of comparison and gratitude at the same time. I do not believe that they mutually can coexist. Now, you can go back and forth, but I can't be sitting there and comparing myself with other people and be grateful for where God has placed me and what God has done in my life. I don't believe they can mutually coexist at the same time. Right? And so which one are we gonna live? The one that's of comparison, I wish I was doing this, or I wish I had that, or man, I was just playing for this team, or I wish I had that talent, or I did this, you know? Then what I'm saying is, God, you screwed up on my plan.

• 30:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:35Speaker 01

  I should have that talent, I should be doing that. Versus trusting Him and being grateful for what He has done in my life. And I think that's one of the challenges, but yet then trying to work through it, you're also, God, okay, no, God, thank you. God, thank you. God, thank you. God, thank you. Going back and, and

• 30:55Speaker 02

  Gratitude.

• 30:56Speaker 01

  In every way possible, trying to have a posture and a mindset of gratitude for what He has done and who He is, and every bit of that. And that's been something that has helped me along with other people in some of those places and spaces.

• 31:10Speaker 02

  I love it. Perspective, gratitude, and not falling into that comparison mindset. Otherwise, you're saying

• 31:17Speaker 01

  I heard a stat a couple of years ago that 12% of our daily thoughts are spent in some form of comparison.

• 31:24Speaker 02

  Really?

• 31:24Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 31:26Speaker 02

  That's probably right.

• 31:28Speaker 01

  That's crazy.

• 31:28Speaker 02

  It is.

• 31:29Speaker 01

  If you think about it, 12% of our daily thoughts are spent in some form of comparison. That means 12% of our time, we're thinking, oh, I should have that. I wish I had that. I need to do this. It's really hard to be all of who God has created you to be and live in the purpose He has created you to live in, when I'm just worried about, I wish I was on the other side of that fence.

• 31:48Speaker 02

  Exactly. Yeah, especially for me, where probably the other 40% is filled with 90's country lyrics. You know what I mean? Like, I just, it's like I know every lyric to every 90's country song.

• 32:01Speaker 01

  I love it.

• 32:02Speaker 02

  Doesn't leave much for other things, really. No wonder I forget stuff all the time.

• 32:07Speaker 02

  I wanna, I wanna ask a question that is somewhat similar to what I asked before. Because I really try to think of the people who are listening, and they say, man, I really, I wanna, I wanna learn, and here they wanna, they wanna learn from you.

• 32:26Speaker 01

  No, I think they wanna learn from you.

• 32:28Speaker 02

  No, both.

• 32:31Speaker 02

  Okay, that's too much humility to be, but I'm kidding. How do you respond to somebody who insults you?

• 32:40Speaker 02

  Makes fun of you?

• 32:43Speaker 01

  I think it's a really good, and honestly, a probably deeper question than maybe sometimes when that question's asked, it even really means. I think sometimes you need to look and say, is that true?

• 32:57Speaker 02

  Ask yourself the question.

• 32:58Speaker 01

  Ask yourself, is that true what that person said? Like, and not just be, put up this wall, but ask yourself that question. Like, depending on what it is, who it's coming from, sometimes there can be really well-meaning people that say something, it could sound like an insult, but it's also something I need to listen to. And then sometimes there's people that just wanna tear you down, and that's very different. Those aren't, that's not the same category.

• 33:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 33:26Speaker 01

  You know? Iron sharpening iron so that, you know, going back to, to Proverbs, iron sharpens iron so that one man sharpens another. In the literal translation, it's iron sharpens iron so that one man sharpens the face of his friend. It is a very close, very personal thing. And sometimes in our society, we don't live that. We're sort of more of like pillow hitting pillow.

• 33:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 33:50Speaker 01

  We really wanna be encouraged and, you know, comforted. Those aren't bad things. But sometimes, we need to be surrounded by iron that sharpens iron.

• 34:00Speaker 02

  How do you receive criticism better?

• 34:06Speaker 02

  I can tell you, sometimes I struggle with that.

• 34:08Speaker 01

  Yes, it's not, it's not always easy.

• 34:10Speaker 02

  I'm sensitive to criticism, and I don't mean to be.

• 34:13Speaker 01

  So every time that I do a, a talk, we have members of our team that go with me, and we have sheets that they fill out about me. And the number one thing is, did I come across humble? Number two is, did I say anything wrong? Especially emphasize when it comes to scripture.

• 34:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 34:37Speaker 01

  Right? And then we have a list of things, what could we do better going through it? And it's because, not because it's comfortable, but because I, I want to be sharpened by iron. And I want to be coached. And it's very uncomfortable sometimes. And I have to really empower them, no, please tell me honestly. This isn't, no, don't, don't give me fluff. Don't, don't hit me with the pillow. Don't suck up right now. I need you to tell me exactly what is in your mind. And maybe there's back and forth, but maybe it's just I need to sit there and listen to the criticism. But we do that all the, of the time. Right? And to evaluate so that I can learn, grow, and adapt.

• 35:20Speaker 01

  And I think, I say that to answer your question, sometimes that's very uncomfortable, but we, we need criticism in our life. Right? I, I really believe that. We need truth tellers. We need people, and sometimes that criticism can feel harsh, sometimes it can feel very loving. And sometimes it's depending on the person that's talking to us. And I don't think I've always taken it very well. I don't think I've taken it well many times.

• 35:45Speaker 01

  But I, I, I want to improve, and I'm trying to improve on a daily basis on who's trying to give me that. Try to not be defensive about it.

• 35:57Speaker 01

  But I, I do like to ask questions back so I can better understand, but making sure those questions that I ask back. Like if they say, you know, hey, you came across too harsh, or you were too much on this, or whatever, or you said a dumb question to Jefferson. Then I, I want to be, have the freedom to also ask a question, like, in your mind, what was it that got me to that place? Because I'm a very kind of, sometimes external processor, I'll wanna talk through it with that, back and forth. So I don't want that to come across as being defensive, so I even gotta try to find out how I phrase that, so they don't find it as defensive, because you just criticized me. And I think there needs to be a healthy dialogue back and forth about that. And I think that's really important, but I feel like I haven't done a good job in a lot of areas of my life in handling criticism, but I want to.

• 36:42Speaker 01

  I want to be a learner. I wanna have learner's mentality. One of our core values for our family, for our foundation, for our companies, is to value and seek wise counsel. You know, Proverbs is so clear with it, he who walks with wise men will be wise, but the companion of fools will suffer harm. In a multitude of counselors, there is victory. Two days ago, we were getting, we were filming a campaign shoot for the foundation, and before we started, that's one of the scriptures that I read, you know?

• 37:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 37:15Speaker 01

  And because, man, you're all counselors. We're all counselors to one another. We got other wise voices that came in and spoken to us, and where we want to follow God's word. And our number one counselor is the Holy Spirit, you know? And God's word. And then we want other people that love us, but love us enough to also tell us the truth. And really, and so we, we want to have the posture of being a learner, of taking in criticism, and being able to adapt from it. And it's, it's not always easiest, but that is a culture that we're trying to create, and I'm trying to model it, and I think I suck at it a lot.

• 37:57Speaker 02

  That's, but the, the thing about taking the learner posture is, we, that means you're room to grow.

• 38:03Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 38:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 38:03Speaker 01

  How do you handle, how do you take criticism?

• 38:06Speaker 02

  Criticism?

• 38:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:07Speaker 02

  How do I take it? Not well, probably. It depends on the mood, right? There's a lot of time where it's, if my, if my heart is in a posture to receive it, or am I in a posture where I can tell I'm, I'm not, I'm not regulated at this moment? I can tell I'm either overwhelmed, my mind is on a thousand different things, and I'm, and I'm not locked in to what you're trying to tell me. And so the, the script I'll hear is, I'm doing something wrong, all I do are things wrong, versus taking it as, here is something that I can take to, to grow. Here is a path to that.

• 38:51Speaker 02

  Now, there are some people who, they, they mask insults in the form of criticism, right? That there is, there's criticism that is not helpful.

• 39:02Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 39:02Speaker 02

  That is, you know, used as, as harm. And when I hear you saying, when I asked, how do you respond to an insult? And what I heard you do is immediately turn into the question for yourself of, do I believe it to be true?

• 39:19Speaker 02

  And what I find so powerful about that is it's really easy to take the insult and throw it right back. But to do that would require that you believed it in the first place. And so what I like is you, you kind of cut that out and ask the question, is that something I truly, truly believe? Is that something that I, I, I hold to myself? And if you don't, then why are you giving that person the ability to speak that over your life in, in the first place? Because I think there's that spot, there's this area where if I give your words value and I give it credibility, that what I'm saying is it has just as much value to me

• 40:04Speaker 02

  as the good in my life that I speak into myself. So why would I give the insults, the val- you know, the same amount of value as the things that pour into my, to my life for good?

• 40:17Speaker 01

  I, I love that. And if I could add to that, I would say you, just because you don't have to value what someone said, doesn't mean that you have to treat them as not valuable. And so the challenge is just because you might not value what that person said, if you don't believe it, doesn't give us the right or the place to devalue that person.

• 40:39Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 40:40Speaker 01

  And I think that's also very hard.

• 40:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, very hard.

• 40:45Speaker 01

  To devalue maybe what someone said, but not devalue the person.

• 40:49Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 40:50Speaker 01

  Cause you might have a difference of opinion, of agreement, of a whatever, I mean, there's a lot of that without devaluing the person. I think that's really hard, but it's something we should strive for.

• 41:01Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. It's always in the striving. I, I agree. It's, it's the journey, not the destination kind of thing. I, I, I'm curious, here's what I want to ask, and I want to create a formula, so to speak, so I would love to, I want to break it down for us. What are three things that you have to have to be able to stand your ground?

• 41:24Speaker 01

  Ooh.

• 41:25Speaker 02

  In the face of criticism?

• 41:26Speaker 01

  My first would be courage of conviction.

• 41:31Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 41:32Speaker 01

  Um, I think that's really important and there would be a lot that would be in that first answer.

• 41:39Speaker 02

  Would it be courage or would it be conviction?

• 41:41Speaker 01

  It would be courage of conviction.

• 41:43Speaker 02

  Together.

• 41:44Speaker 01

  So I'm so convicted by this that it is also what's fueling my conviction. Or I'm so convicted that it's fueling my courage.

• 41:50Speaker 02

  Got it.

• 41:51Speaker 01

  Right? That I'm so convicted by this, like one of the things for me, I'm so convicted that every single person that is here on planet earth is made in God's image. Period, end of story. That is a conviction. And I believe that every single person is worthy of us doing anything and everything for them to be loved, cared for and protected.

• 42:10Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 42:11Speaker 01

  That is, that is a conviction.

• 42:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 42:13Speaker 01

  That hopefully I can show a little courage for, because the conviction is so strong.

• 42:17Speaker 02

  Got it.

• 42:18Speaker 01

  What else? Um, I, I think that's, and because also when you have that conviction, it's cause you, then you have confidence from it because you believe it is true.

• 42:27Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 42:28Speaker 01

  Like if you don't have a conviction on it and you're not convicted, why would you have courage?

• 42:33Speaker 02

  Right.

• 42:34Speaker 01

  There's no reason, it doesn't make any sense.

• 42:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 42:37Speaker 01

  Like, and you're not going to fully believe it, like, so I think that is, is really, really important. And then, um, probably in the next one, it would be surround yourself with wise counsel, surround yourself with truth tellers, surround yourself with people.

• 42:51Speaker 02

  Mentors.

• 42:52Speaker 01

  So when the, the, the place where you get criticized, that you, sometimes you're physically alone, but you know intellectually and spiritually, you're not alone.

• 43:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, your community.

• 43:03Speaker 01

  You have a community of people, because I just don't believe we're meant to do life alone.

• 43:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 43:08Speaker 01

  I do not believe that.

• 43:09Speaker 02

  I like to think of it as, for me, I, I call it the, the people at my table.

• 43:12Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 43:13Speaker 02

  You know, who are the seats that I fill at my table?

• 43:15Speaker 01

  Yeah. The, um, sometimes we'll talk about it, because a lot of what we do is what, in a battle of what we believe is good versus evil.

• 43:23Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 43:24Speaker 01

  And it's the, like the people you get to wake up and, and go to battle with, you know?

• 43:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 43:31Speaker 01

  Like, it matters a whole lot more to me what they think than, you know, people that, um, or the people we're trying to stop from hurting kids.

• 43:39Speaker 02

  Yeah. Who are your, um, who, who are your sword brothers?

• 43:42Speaker 01

  And I would also say that's where I feel like sometimes I've, um, taken the worst wounds too.

• 43:48Speaker 02

  Tell me.

• 43:49Speaker 01

  Is, you know, in certain people, maybe in the Christian community that have like had shots and it feel like it's, it's like, oh, that one really got me right in the back and that hurt.

• 44:00Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 44:01Speaker 01

  You know?

• 44:02Speaker 02

  For sure.

• 44:03Speaker 01

  Um, so that's sometimes where the wounds really feel the worst.

• 44:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 44:07Speaker 01

  If, that's fair to say.

• 44:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, it is.

• 44:09Speaker 01

  Um, so we got, we got courage.

• 44:11Speaker 02

  That's a tough one.

• 44:12Speaker 01

  That one's very tough.

• 44:13Speaker 02

  The courage of conviction.

• 44:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:15Speaker 02

  Um, wise counsel.

• 44:17Speaker 01

  Yeah. And there's a lot of ways to probably say that.

• 44:20Speaker 02

  What would be the last one?

• 44:21Speaker 01

  And this is just specifically in handling criticism, right?

• 44:25Speaker 02

  Just standing your ground.

• 44:26Speaker 01

  Standing your ground.

• 44:27Speaker 02

  Um, in the face of opposition.

• 44:29Speaker 01

  There's so many things, you gave me three. Uh, one of them, just because I like to go back to scripture, because I'm dumb, scripture is not, you know, is going back to, to scripture. Um, it would be something around the form of remembering, do not forget and perspective, all built into one, because 22 times in Deuteronomy, Moses reminded Israelites to remember or do not forget.

• 44:52Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 44:53Speaker 01

  And he did that because they had been rescued out of Egypt and by the next generation, they're forgetting God's faithfulness, they're forgetting God's goodness, they're forgetting God's sovereignty, forgetting God's love, and they're starting to worship other idols and all these things.

• 45:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 45:07Speaker 01

  And he's going back and back and back, saying, remember, do not forget, remember, do not forget.

• 45:11Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 45:12Speaker 01

  And how many times I've been true in my life, you know, God sent something awesome and like four minutes later, I'm like, I'm alone.

• 45:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 45:20Speaker 01

  This sucks, you know? And, and instead of remembering, and so I would say, that's also part of that, what that wise counsel helps you do, but it's putting things in the place besides just that, that help you remember and fight that battle. For example, sometimes for me, I like to be very practical.

• 45:36Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 45:37Speaker 01

  So if you come to our house, and hopefully one day you'll come to our house, and when you walk into the kitchen, you will see our non-negotiables that are written out by different survivors or people that we've been able to serve.

• 45:50Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 45:51Speaker 01

  In their languages.

• 45:52Speaker 02

  That's cool.

• 45:53Speaker 01

  And it's written out on there. And so every day, when I go get coffee or I go get a drink, I go whatever, I see that it's a reminder every day, it's practical.

• 46:00Speaker 02

  Knowing your non-negotiables.

• 46:01Speaker 01

  Knowing them, but then I get to see the survivors that wrote it.

• 46:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 46:06Speaker 01

  And I get to remember their stories, oh, and how worth it, how worth it it is, how important it is. So we get to go through our non-negotiables, but also the lives that wrote it. And that was one of my favorite gifts that, um, our team and my wife helped put together one year was, you know, some of the most impactful, um, individuals ever in my life are some of the people that we've been blessed to serve, but they have just totally radically impacted my life. So I get to see their handwriting of our non-negotiables for them and for those suffering in humanity. So that's a practical example. Then you walk in, you're, you're walking in and out of our house and you get to see, um, a portrait of a beautiful boy from the country of Haiti named Franski, that was

• 46:49Speaker 01

  a gift from some of our, our ministry, um, uh, partners at My Life Speaks. Amazing, Mike and Missy were amazing. They gave this gift to me because they knew how much this boy meant to me. And many years ago, this boy was, um, um, he was abandoned and he was left on a front porch, tied up and chained up. And, um, and they, um, some women were walking and they heard what they thought was an animal dying and it wasn't. They got there and it was this boy that was tied up and left by himself, um, with so many, um, uh, physical illnesses and he has, um, gosh, he had so many different things. He couldn't walk, he couldn't talk, he was malnourished, he was all of this.

• 47:32Speaker 01

  And ultimately he got to come into the care of our partners that we got to do ministry and life with together. And many times I would be there in Haiti and I would get to carry this boy and like I said, he couldn't walk or talk, but he would, he just, when he would smile, it'd brighten the whole room. Any room he ever walked into. And I just loved that boy. And every time I would be there, I would carry him and he hated when I put it down. So I just considered my workout, I carried him the whole time.

• 47:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 47:58Speaker 01

  And he was just the, I mean, just the best. And, uh, one day Franski gets sick and they take him to the local clinic and they won't care for him because they view him as cursed. They view him as insignificant, he's not worthy of them caring for. They, then they rush him to a hospital, they won't care for him. They take him to another hospital, they won't care for him. They finally get it to a hospital that will admit him, within 15 minutes, uh, of being admitted, he dies. And I don't know what's worse.

• 48:29Speaker 01

  Franzki dying from a likely treatable virus or being treated like a virus? And there's a portrait of Franzki. When you walk in, you walk out of him smiling with the crown on his head. Cause I want to remember him that way. But I also want to remember how far we are as a society from remembering the value of human life and the dignity of human life. And there are so many millions of boys and girls that are still treated as less than insignificant. So that is a practical way that we're putting in place. Remember, do not forget. And every time I see it, it's also not just Franzki, but I feel like it's God reminding me, no, I put you for here, for him. But you, there's a lot more. Go get him.

• 49:14Speaker 02

  Yeah. Do you feel that in the, the way that I, I know you do so many things through the Timothy Bell Foundation and what y'all have made your priorities? Is it the, when we say the courage of conviction? When we say wise counsel? When we say never forgetting? Is that what drives all the, the projects and the?

• 49:40Speaker 01

  I would say those are, yeah. All three are very, um, yes. They're, they're very personal to me. So it might not be the best advice for everyone, but those are very personal to me.

• 49:50Speaker 02

  No, I think, I think they are.

• 49:51Speaker 01

  It, I do believe that conviction that God's put in my heart for the suffering of humanity does help me have a little courage for it. And I don't think I have a lot, but maybe a little bit. And I do think the wise counsel we have speak into us is so helpful. And then I do think it is those lives and it is that story that I never want to forget. And there are certain stories that I want every single member of our foundation and the new ones. And we're growing like crazy. And so new ones that come in, they have to know certain boys and girl stories. Because that has totally transformed the ministry. There's certain stories and certain boys, I want everyone to know. Like our, our last core value, we have a five plus one, it's six, but we call it five plus one because five is the number for grace.

• 50:35Speaker 01

  And we always have a plus one mentality, one more, one more, one more. And our plus one core value is we bring our best because monsters are chasing her. And it's written from a sweet girl who was, um, had to go through some of the worst evil in the world for seven years as a young girl until she was safeguarded and rescued out of that. And, and she is thriving and she's doing amazing now. And she's just one of my favorite people on planet earth. And, um, and in the middle of her evil, one of the things that she wrote was rescue me, help me, monsters are chasing, can't you see? And, um, and so we wake up every day as our plus one. And we bring our best because monsters are chasing her.

• 51:19Speaker 01

  And so we have to get there before the monsters do. We have to be strong enough to fight off the monsters. We got to bring her to safety. We've got to protect her and do every single thing. So it's, it's physically and practically, but it's also figuratively and mentally and spiritually in every sense of the word.

• 51:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 51:36Speaker 01

  Right? And so those are things that I wake up and think about every day. And I think every single person on our team, if you brought up her or Franzki or this sweet girl or one of them, and you know, it's, they will know, like you will see me turn. Like you will go from soft spoken to the different side.

• 51:57Speaker 02

  Do they have a name for that? Is there a different name for this, Tim?

• 52:01Speaker 01

  I don't think so.

• 52:02Speaker 02

  Kind of, maybe we'll find out.

• 52:03Speaker 01

  But that's just, um, like.

• 52:06Speaker 02

  There's definitely one, they just don't tell you.

• 52:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, probably. One day, um, we were at, um, this country where this sweet survivor is. And, uh, we were hanging with a lot of the kids that we get to serve. And we were going to do something sweet with some of the, the team family that came to love on them. And, um, we went to the mall and to get them all special gifts. And we did it all by name and all the different things that they listed that they might want. And, and, um, so my, well, I, when everyone's divvying up, who's going to get who? Like, we were like, no one's going to dare to, to be, to take her.

• 52:46Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 52:46Speaker 01

  That's me and my wife, we were getting her gift.

• 52:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 52:49Speaker 01

  And so I was with my wife and we picked her out this, um, uh, beautiful, um, sparkly dress. And, um, when we gave it to her and we're standing a little ways away, she grabs the, she grabs the dress, she just pulls it in and she starts weeping, holding it. Like no one has ever given me something this nice. It's not that nice of a dress. And high heels and she wore it to a bunch of their really cool, um, school stuff.

• 53:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 53:21Speaker 01

  And, um, you're just like, man, to a lot of people, that's not that nice of a dress to her.

• 53:28Speaker 02

  It was everything?

• 53:28Speaker 01

  It was everything. But you want to show her how much you care for her. And if it's by getting her a sparkly dress, um, I'd have got her 10,000 more.

• 53:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, I bet. I want to, uh, that's a beautiful story. Thank you for sharing that with me, Tim. Before we keep going, I want to take a moment to tell you about Cozy Earth. I love Cozy Earth because they do, in my opinion, have the most comfortable bed sheets that are out there. The kind of bed sheets that when you're traveling and you're away from home and maybe you travel a lot, or maybe not at all, you just go, I just miss my bed. You ever felt that way? You go, I just, I miss my own bed. Nothing like your own bed. Well, let me tell you what, when you put some Cozy Earth sheets on them, they're bamboo, they're lightweight and they're very cooling at night. I run hot, Sierra does not, but I, I need, I need that coolness. Cozy Earth is where it is at. So if you're looking for cozy, comfortable sheets, look no further than Cozy Earth.

• 54:24Speaker 02

  Right now you can go to cozyearth.com/jefferson, you used to go Jefferson to get up to 25% off. That's cozyearth.com/jefferson. And now let's keep going. I want to shift a moment to conversations that we need to be having with our kids. What are the conversations we need to be thinking about having with our kids right now?

• 54:46Speaker 01

  It's a really good question. Thank you for asking. And I, um, I would first say, I don't know if I have all the, the right answers for it. But in the work that we're blessed to do, even though we want to work ourselves out a job and fighting evil, um, the level of exploitation around the world, but here in our country is off the charts. Like you have more people being trafficked than ever before in human history, 50 plus million people. You'll have 400 million boys and girls that will be abused or exploited around the world this year. Like there's so much evil taking place. And one of the things that I, I feel like is really important to mention,

• 55:28Speaker 01

  because we're getting ready to, to launch a campaign around it is around sextortion. Because this is a conversation I believe every mom and dad needs to have with their boys and girls. Sextortion is something that essentially is blackmail has been happening for a long time. But you start getting into the 2008, nine, 10, you see it growing. Then all of a sudden you get into 2016 and you see such a massive uptake, uptake. And really I'll break it down to maybe three forms. There, there's more than that, but three kind of big forms of sextortion. One would be essentially like relational sextortion. And that would be, um, more of, of essentially pedophiles that would want images.

• 56:11Speaker 01

  And they would, you know, catfish to act like a boy and get images from a girl. And then consistently try to lure that girl and blackmail them to get more images. And that is, uh, it is more primarily girls that are the victims of that. And then you'll get into another category of financially motivated sextortion. And this is really important and I probably want to touch on even more. Not all of them are important, but this is really important because not a lot of people have talked about it because it's a lot newer of a crime type. So in 2021, there was 139 cases for the entire year of financially motivated sextortion.

• 56:52Speaker 01

  Every single day, there would be at least 137 reports of financially motivated sextortion now. It is a, it is blowing up. And, um, like I said, the last one, relational sextortion, that's more done by pedophiles with proclivities. Financially motivated sextortion is, um,

• 57:14Speaker 01

  The goal is money. It is not a proclivity or a pleasure. It is for money. And this is done from primarily, primarily places in West Africa and Southeast Asia, but third world countries where poverty is, has hit them really hard. And they're doing everything to catfish, um, boys and girls, but primarily boys. It's about 90% going after boys and boys with scholarships, reputation, more to lose. So they pretend to be a young, pretty girl. They get the boy to send a photo. Sometimes they send some first and they send it, but when they get it, they got you. And they will do everything to get as much money.

• 57:59Speaker 01

  And last year, this led to, I believe, 36 boys that committed suicide. And it's just not being, yes, it's not being talked about. And we have to have this conversation because so many of these boys, they're feeling shame and they're feeling like the world's over. And we have to have the conversation to, before this happens, because not all of the evil that we fight is as easily preventable. I do believe this is a lot more preventable. If before it ever happens, we have the conversation. And I think the conversation, we need to know the red flags. Then we need to have this conversation, um, with the boys and girls, but especially the boys to say, if something ever were to happen, I want you to know I love you.

• 58:42Speaker 02

  Come talk to me.

• 58:43Speaker 01

  No matter what, please come talk to me and we will handle it. It's not the end of the world because they're sitting in shame, thinking that the, it's the end of the world and it's not the end of the world. And we have to be able to have that conversation. Uh, and, and now we can dive more into that. And then the last one would be sadistic sex extortion. And this is done more by organized crime. And it's also a newer and faster growing crime type as well. And it's getting, um, boys and girls, and this one skews more towards girls and younger, uh, but it's getting them to do some pretty terrible things, hurt themselves, hurt animals, kill animals and some really terrible things.

• 59:26Speaker 01

  Um, and, um, if, if anybody wants, you can go to timtebowfoundation.org and we have lists and we have, um, manuals for, um, to be able to help any parents in the conversation of the red flags, all the above. I don't want to harp on it too much, but there, and then there's also, um, tip lines you can go to, um, Thorn has one that you can go to and you just text or call. The hotline is 741741, text or call. Um, and then, um, also if this does happen and to any of the families that are watching, if it has happened, um, and you have sent some photos, you can go to Nick Mick's website, National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, and they will help go to the websites and take it down.

• 1:00:10Speaker 01

  It'll be under Nick Mick and take it down. Um, so those are some, some options for the families that are watching.

• 1:00:16Speaker 02

  Absolutely. And we'll make sure and put all those links down in the captions as well.

• 1:00:20Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:00:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, absolutely. So when you say, I mean, that, that to me is wild. You know, I've heard of the term catfishing where somebody is pretending to be somebody else of the goal of getting something. And I hear extortion being the goal, getting, uh, pictures from somebody and then using that as a way of manipulation.

• 1:00:40Speaker 01

  Yes, like the first one relational, it would be under, yes, pleasure for this. The next one is money. And then the last one is some sadistic.

• 1:00:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, just evil.

• 1:00:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:00:51Speaker 02

  Now for the, the money side of this, it is, give me money for me to take it down.

• 1:00:57Speaker 01

  Give me money so I don't expose you. And, and I just want to also encourage the parents, please don't give, it's never going to get better. It's just, that's not going to be helpful. Don't, uh, ju- just block that offender, but don't erase any of the images. Call your local law enforcement, um, so that they have all of the evidence from those conversations. That's also vitally important for it. So don't erase it. Don't think I gotta hide this. No, let law enforcement see it so that they can help be able to protect and also protect from the next boys and girls as well. That is vitally important. So I just want to mention that as well.

• 1:01:32Speaker 02

  No, I'm glad you did. Thank you. When we, when we look to, you know, have these conversations with our kids.

• 1:01:40Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:01:42Speaker 02

  What are the things that we need to be able, how, how do we have those kinds of conversations with our kids? What are the things that we need to be able to tell them?

• 1:01:51Speaker 01

  It's a really good question.

• 1:01:52Speaker 02

  What ages to look at, you know? Because me, my son is eight, he's in third grade. And we're about to, I'm about to read this book with him. It's, I believe it's called Good Pictures, Bad Pictures, where it's the, let's talk about some serious stuff that's happening, that you're going to be exposed to. And I cannot believe how easy it is and how young these kids get exposed to sex and sexual images, uh, where in our dad's age, way harder.

• 1:02:27Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:02:27Speaker 02

  Uh, and now it's just like water. All you have to do is turn on the faucet.

• 1:02:34Speaker 01

  Well, I think one, we have to be able to talk with them about the internet. If they have the use of a phone, an iPad, a device, whatever that is, like, um, one of our good friends who led behavioral analysis for the US Marshals for a long time. He said, every time that you give a kid a phone, it is very similar to dropping them off at a playground, knowing that hundreds of pedophiles are walking around that playground. That's what happens when they get on the internet. And so every time they're on, um, these apps, these, um, big tech, um, gaming platforms, the Roblox's and all of these, there are so many offenders and predators on there that

• 1:03:17Speaker 01

  are luring, that are on there to groom and to lure our boys and girls into something that is bad. Like we have to be aware of that and we have to protect them. And I also want to mention, one of the best devices to help protect kids is the Bark phone. And I love it and I'm so proud of what they're doing. It's the best device out there that we have seen. And it's a phone that will alert parents. It won't allow explicit images to, to show up, to be sent or received, alert parents if something, someone's trying to groom their kids. That's a really great thing for kids too. But going back to the conversation, we got to have in advance of starting to share, hey, when you are gaming or you're on an app or you're on social media, there might be people with the goal to do evil.

• 1:04:02Speaker 01

  So you have to be very careful for having a conversation around that. It's also having a conversation, there are people that don't want good for you. They want bad. So teaching people a little bit more, uh, teaching boys and girls a little bit more of, you know, good versus evil.

• 1:04:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:04:19Speaker 01

  Cause there are people that want good for you and there are people that really want evil things. I think that's really important and I just don't think we can hide it.

• 1:04:27Speaker 02

  Nor should we.

• 1:04:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, I do not think so. And then it's also getting to the place where we are telling our boys and girls that if something does happen, you don't have to live in shame. There is nothing that you can do where I won't love you and that I won't be here. So that if that does happen, because also one of the things that happens with financially motivated extortion is one of the reasons why we are trying to, you know, blow the whistle on this thing is because it's so lethal. That it doesn't happen necessarily over months. It can, but it's happens in 24 hours and sometimes in less than one, where a boy will be caught in this situation. They don't know what to do and they think life's over and they kill themselves. And I can show you scripts of offenders that will say, you need to take your life.

• 1:05:13Speaker 01

  It will never get any better. You need to die because I'm going to do everything to, I mean, it's just brutal, brutal, brutal. Like it's not compassionate people or I just want to say, no, it's not playing around. And so we got to have that conversation and they got to know that mom and dad are there and they're not going to shame me. They love me. Like this has to be a grace based conversation, a grace based tone. We have to have grace for, because if it does happen and they don't feel like they can come to you, they won't.

• 1:05:41Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:05:41Speaker 01

  You know?

• 1:05:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, I, I resonate with that so strongly of even the, the wild thing is, you could say, look, I don't give my son or daughter a phone. We limit screen time. They're still exposed to it at school. They're still, that's the thing you're not prepared for. You go, how in the world did that, like, we, we don't let our kids. We have like one video game at the house that we let, you know, and it's NCAA.

• 1:06:12Speaker 01

  I love it. It's a great game.

• 1:06:14Speaker 02

  I'm so glad it's back.

• 1:06:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:06:16Speaker 02

  So glad.

• 1:06:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, I missed it.

• 1:06:17Speaker 02

  And, um, but.

• 1:06:19Speaker 01

  We might have to play. I'll take Florida. You can take Texas.

• 1:06:22Speaker 02

  Dang, alright. Are you gonna play yourself? That's what he's gonna do.

• 1:06:25Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:06:25Speaker 02

  You should. I think they have the ability now. I think you could like go back and you could. That'd be awesome. We should. Um, anyway, so I'm thinking, I'm sorry, I went on like NCAA.

• 1:06:40Speaker 01

  He's college football Mike.

• 1:06:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, all of a sudden, you know, I had to put it back, put it back on for a second. Is, you know, he doesn't play any other video games, but yet somehow he knows about all these other video games that we don't let him play. Whether it's Fortnite or Minecraft, like all this stuff. And it's kind of a scary thing as a parent going, whoa, how did they get exposed? It's because everybody at school is talking about it. His friends are all talking about it. And it becomes the, the thing and it's almost as if he's more drawn to it out of the fact that he's not allowed to do it.

• 1:07:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:07:12Speaker 02

  And I, I know that that is, so my wife is an education attorney. And so she has represented school districts a long time, 15 plus years. And she has had so many cases of kids exchanging pictures, exchanging pictures with teachers or coaches or things that happen on the bus, like just things that you go, how is this even okay? And it's just, how does that even happen? And most of the time, the parents have no clue. They're, they're like, we don't do any of this in our home. It couldn't be my daughter. It couldn't be my son. And so I think that highlights the importance of what you said so beautifully is.

• 1:07:53Speaker 01

  So I want parents to hear this. It's every 11 minutes, a, a boy or girl, mostly boys, right here in the U.S. Is financially sextorted. Every 11 minutes.

• 1:08:06Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 1:08:06Speaker 01

  Like, and so many times we think that can't happen to my boy, to my girl.

• 1:08:10Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:08:11Speaker 01

  Like, I just think we have to fight against that. Like, it can't happen. It can, and it's doing every single day. So let's have the conversation. Let's be prepared. Let's put the things in place. Let's know the red flags. Let's know what to do if it does happen. But let's prepare in advance so that we can try to prevent as much of this as possible.

• 1:08:27Speaker 02

  Amen. Yeah. It's, it's knowing not only the red flags, which I like, of like the conversation. One is you need to have the conversation with your child.

• 1:08:36Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:08:37Speaker 02

  About the dangers that are out there and that there are people who are out there, like you said, that are out there that are not good, but are bad.

• 1:08:44Speaker 01

  Just for evil.

• 1:08:44Speaker 02

  Just for bad.

• 1:08:45Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:08:45Speaker 02

  And, and those people are there. Um, second of all, is knowing that home, that conversation is a safe place.

• 1:08:54Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:08:55Speaker 02

  Because if you respond harshly, but it doesn't just begin with this conversation, right? It begins with, do you yell at them when they spill the milk? Do you, you know, do you go over the top because they didn't bring you the right tool? You know, like those little things where they go, I messed up and there's no way I could come tell dad. There's no way I could tell, I, I can't, I can't go tell mom. Like, that would be the scariest thing for them to say. And three, what I hear you saying is there are resources.

• 1:09:20Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:09:20Speaker 02

  And what y'all provide through the foundation is so many resources. And I would love for you to, to share a little bit more of, for these parents listening, where, where can they go?

• 1:09:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, they can just go to timtoefoundation.org and they can see resources. You also, you know, as I mentioned, I think it's important to mention it again, is if photos are out there, other places, that you can go to NICMCC, National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. And there's a take it down place and they will help take it down off of sites. And also, um, if in that crisis and you need a hotline, Thorn has a hotline and the number to call or text is 741741. But please, it's, you know, free work resource for anybody to be able to go to the website, be able to, to read about it, be able to look at the red flags, the conversation starters, all sorts of different things.

• 1:10:14Speaker 01

  And that's just because we really believe that we have to have this conversation. We have to make parents aware so they can have this conversation with their boys and girls.

• 1:10:23Speaker 02

  Absolutely. And it's start the conversation younger than you think.

• 1:10:26Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:10:27Speaker 02

  Like, you can't, you can't, I don't think you can start it young, young enough. I would much rather that. And also, this is only, you know, a small fraction of what all y'all are involved in and the, the resources that y'all have out there. I heard you a minute ago saying, I mean, how much y'all do in just trafficking alone? How, what other areas of, um, I guess what you'd call the most vulnerable, like what areas do you help them?

• 1:10:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's, well.

• 1:10:52Speaker 02

  This is where I want people to hear right now. I want people to hear what y'all are doing. And I want people to hear, um, where they can go.

• 1:11:00Speaker 01

  Well, for us, it's always about the least, the last of the law. So we call the MVP, the most vulnerable people. And, um, whether that's those that are being trafficked and trying to fight, um, for them and against those that are, um, are, are selling and harming them. If it's an exploitation, which is just growing rampant, um, for those boys and girls, whether that's with in prevention side of it, with education. If it's in prevention with, um, bills in, in DC trying to get passed. Thank, we just got one passed a few weeks ago and are grateful for that. And now, um, working on, um, some of the next ones. If it's in, um, the operations with task forces that we're blessed to, to serve with around the world and here in the States.

• 1:11:43Speaker 01

  Or it's also supporting law enforcement and cataly- catalyzing, innovating, and ultimately trying to disrupt this evil in as many ways as possible. It's long-term restoration, um, with safe homes. We have 52 safe homes and 20 more in progress right now. But then it's also other areas. We have, um, four hospitals with our partners, um, around the world. We have, uh, orphan care and prevention, special needs ministry and, uh, special needs schools, campuses. And, uh, also one of our, our favorite events, something called Night to Shine, a worldwide celebration for people with special needs. So, um, you know, I think to the, your average person might seem very broad and scattered, but to us, it's for the most vulnerable and those that have, um, the world has looked down and, and, um,

• 1:12:26Speaker 01

  and that aren't protected and aren't cared for is, um, we believe 1 Corinthians 13:7, um, love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. And we want to do that for the boys and girls and those that are suffering around the world.

• 1:12:39Speaker 02

  Thank you for what you do. I want to make sure I mention, I got to take a look at this a minute ago and I'm excited about it. I've already asked for my own copy. Forty Days to Look Again. What is, what is your hope with this?

• 1:12:52Speaker 01

  Well, it's a devotional. It was based somewhat off the, the book from last year called Look Again. And, um, the, the premise was that the way we see something is the way we treat something. So the way we see people is the way we treat people. And, uh, the way we see ourselves is also the way we treat ourselves. And if we see ourselves as worthless, we'll treat ourselves as worthless. Same with other people. But if we see ourselves created in God's image with infinite value and worth, then we'll see other people as created in God's image with infinite value and worth. And how much in our society have we missed the mark? Have I missed the mark on this?

• 1:13:32Speaker 01

  And ultimately, when you do that, I believe that when you embrace your worth, it also, you can reclaim your hope and then you can run with confidence. You know, because I, I know my worth and it doesn't come from what I do or don't do. I have a hope and it's not the way like, you know, you hope Texas is gonna win. Like, I hope Florida's gonna win. Like flipping a coin, right? That's not the biblical form of hope. The biblical form of hope, the best definition, in my opinion, is to look forward with confidence, expectation and anticipation. We can look forward because we can look back at the cross with confidence. We can look forward because we know our God is with expectation because we know our God is still working. We can look forward with anticipation because we know that heaven's ahead of us, our best day is ahead of us.

• 1:14:15Speaker 01

  And we, we have eternity with Jesus one day. Like, so, you know, when you, you get to understand your God-given worth, and that's not because, to give us arrogance. It's not because of us, it's because of Him, but it gives us our word that worth fuels our hope and our hope allows us to run with confidence. And so this is a 40-day journey where, um, we dive into scripture. Then we share a little bit about it and then we give some very practical dues and, um, what we can do and how we can apply that to our life every day. And it's a 40-day journey. If anybody wants to go on it with me, would love to have you be a part of it.

• 1:14:48Speaker 02

  I'm gonna be going. Yeah, I'm excited.

• 1:14:49Speaker 01

  But just, um, you know, I, I just, I really believe that, um, that, you know, the way we see people is the way we treat people, the way we see ourselves is the way we treat ourselves. And if we saw people through the God's lens or the lens of the cross, it would change everything.

• 1:15:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, I think, um, I think you summed it up beautifully. So if you're listening, go get this book, Forty Days to Look Again. Wonderful, uh, devotional. If you could say one thing to someone who does not know Jesus, but they want to, what would you tell them?

• 1:15:21Speaker 01

  That's a good question. I like that question.

• 1:15:29Speaker 01

  I would say that I believe with every fiber of my being that God loves you. And He's not mad at you. He gave His best when He gave His Son for you. That's how valuable you are to Him, that He would give it all so that you could be reconciled, made anew and have a home in heaven.

• 1:15:56Speaker 01

  I believe that. And my hope and prayer would that you would look at the evidence. You would look at the evidence of scripture, the evidence of the cross, the evidence of history. And you would at least

• 1:16:11Speaker 01

  spend time trying to meditate, is this true? Because if it is, it is the greatest love story rescue mission of all time. That there's a God that gave it all so that we could be rescued and have a home in heaven. My encouragement would be, look at all the people throughout history. Look at time changed because of Him. Look at the evidence of the cross, the witnesses of resurrection. Look at all of it and just be willing to ponder. Because if it is true, there is nothing more, there's no more radical scandalous love than the love of Christ. There's nothing more.

• 1:16:55Speaker 01

  And if it is true, please don't miss out on the greatest love. And I believe that is how much God loves you. Yes, the world, but you. He loves you that much and I want you to know it. And I believe that it is true with all of my heart. And I want that for you. You are loved beyond all comparison and all measure. You are. And I hope and pray you would do the research and look at it. And maybe you would come to the conclusion that, yeah, there's a God. He created me in love, by love and for love. And I'm gonna say yes to that love.

• 1:17:41Speaker 02

  Thanks, Tim. Thanks for coming on and having some conversations.

• 1:17:43Speaker 01

  Dude, that's awesome. Thank you, man. Thanks for having me.

• 1:17:46Speaker 00

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid and risked 350,000 Virginians' healthcare to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, thehousemajoritypact.com. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.