Good Communication Is Overrated—Try This Instead

I don’t want what sounds nice—I want what’s real. This episode is about stripping away the polish in conversations and showing up with integrity and authenticity. I break down why perfection actually hurts communication, how authenticity and integrity differ, and why your presence will always matter more than your technique. If you’ve ever caught yourself performing instead of connecting, this episode will help you return to what’s true. Order The Next Conversation Workbook: https://www.jeffersonfisher.com/workbook Thank you to our sponsors: Cozy Earth. Upgrade Your Every Day. Get 40% off at cozyearth.com/jefferson or use code JEFFERSON at check out. Pique. Head to https://PiqueLife.com/jefferson for 20% off. BetterHelp. Click https://betterhelp.com/jeffersonfisher for a discount on your first month of therapy. Order my new book, The Next Conversation, or listen to the full audiobook today. Like what you hear? Don’t forget to subscribe and leave a 5-star review! Suggest a topic or ask a question for me to answer on the show! Want a FREE communication tip each week? Click here to join my newsletter. Join My School of Communication Watch my podcast on YouTube Follow me on Instagram Follow me on TikTok Follow me on LinkedIn Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  Low energy, unfocused, foggy, you might be dehydrated. Whether it's hot yoga, over 100 degree weather, or too much sun. Gator Light, with a specialized blend of five electrolytes, was scientifically designed to help move fluids into the body faster for rapid rehydration. Shop now at retailers nationwide. Gator Light hydrates faster than water. Is it in you? Symptoms noted are signs of mild to moderate dehydration. Consult a healthcare professional if symptoms persist.

• 0:29Jefferson Fisher?

  Quick announcement. The Next Conversation Workbook is now available on sale for pre-order. As many of you know, my book, The Next Conversation, came out this year and it was chosen as best books of 2025 for not only Barnes & Noble, but also Amazon. Well, this workbook is something that I've been working on behind the scenes to make sure that it's packed, full of practical exercises and prompts to make sure that you argue less and talk more. You can get it wherever books are sold. And for you listeners, yes, all the links are down there in the show notes. And now, enjoy the episode. I don't want what sounds nice. I want what's real. Have you ever felt that before? In conversation where what you're grasping for

• 1:14Jefferson Fisher?

  is just the realness of it, rather than what sounds nice, what looks nice, the layer of shine, the polish. I don't want the icing. I want you to cut to the chase. You felt that? In today's conversation, we're going to be talking all about integrity, authenticity, and how to show up better in conversations. Welcome to the Jefferson Fisher Podcast, where I'm on a mission to make your next conversation the one that changes everything. If you enjoy listening to episodes like this that want to improve your communication, like somebody who can't say the word "communication", I'm going to ask that you find, wherever you're listening, the word "subscribe" and click it. And it is my promise to you that in exchange, I will make you a better communicator. Thank you very much.

• 1:57Jefferson Fisher?

  This episode is brought to you by Cozy Earth. I love Cozy Earth and they've been a sponsor of this podcast for a long time now because I use their products and they work. When I am looking for premium quality products for things that, for me, are adulting, I'm talking about. Bed sheets, I'm talking about bath towels, I'm talking about clothes and from coats to shoes, the hoodies, the sweatpants, all of that. That's what I like. That's the stage of life that I'm in. And I bet that's the stage of life you're in right now. And when we're going into these cold holidays, you need to have something that's cozy. So if you're like me and you like being warm, cozy, and premium products, look no further than Cozy Earth. Go to cozyearth.com/jefferson.

• 2:38Jefferson Fisher?

  Use the code Jefferson for 40% off. That's cozyearth.com/jefferson. Use the code Jefferson for 40% off. I've heard it said so many times in conversation, "I just want real. I just want them to be real with me." What does that mean to you? Ever had that in conversation? You just think, "I don't, I don't need to know all the details. I don't want you to have to rephrase it in this way that sounds nice or has to be perfect. I just want real." There are people that they have this robotic sense that when they have input A, they have to have output B. And there has to be a sense of perfection in conversation. I'm going to tell you, number one,

• 3:21Jefferson Fisher?

  perfection is never the standard. In fact, perfection hurts your communication. It hurts your communication. Let me give you an example. If I were, and we may have used this example before, but I love it so much, so it's worth hearing again, especially for me. Imagine for a second, you can close your eyes if you're driving or walking, please don't. Imagine that you are an attorney. There's two attorneys. You're on one side and I'm on the other. And there's a big jury out in front of us. And let's say instead of a jury of 12, we have a jury of 60 people. And I go up and now, uh, let's make you, let's make you, put you in the jury. You're the jury. Cool. I've changed it. You're the jury. Me and another attorney. I go up and say, "Ladies and gentlemen, this case is about what's right and what's wrong."

• 4:06Jefferson Fisher?

  And everything that you're going to hear my client does, did was perfect, was 100% correct. Everything that they did was perfect. They did nothing wrong and all the evidence is going to show that. Thank you very much. The next attorney gets up and say, "Ladies and gentlemen, this is about what's fair. We're going to tell you that..." My client didn't do everything right. There were some problems that they've learned, some bruises that they have. And we're going to talk about those and how we've learned about those. But what the other side's asking for is just simply not reasonable. And so we asked that you do what's fair in this case. Thank you very much. You, as a jury, listening to me right now, you as a jury, listening to me right now. Who would you rather listen to? Who would you rather trust?

• 4:49Jefferson Fisher?

  Attorney A, where everything is 100% perfect? Or Attorney B, who says, I just want what's reasonable? Everybody chooses Attorney B. Why? Because it's real. Nobody is 100% perfect. There's only one person that ever was. And when you think, in time, when am I ever perfect in conversation? It is rarely if ever. So what does that mean? We want authenticity in conversation. Number two, integrity and authenticity are not the same thing. Not the same thing. Now that we know that authenticity is what you want in conversation because it relates to us. Nobody relates to perfection in conversation. We relate to struggle, right?

• 5:34Jefferson Fisher?

  If I tell you, if I begin my sentence with, hey, I just want to tell you, I'm struggling with this. I'm struggling with how to begin this. I'm struggling with how I feel about this. And I need your help sifting through this. What's naturally going to happen? You're going to want to help me. If I ask for your help and I begin with that? Begin the conversation with, I'm struggling. I'm struggling to understand. I'm struggling to interpret. I'm struggling to comprehend. I'm struggling to wrap my mind around. And you know what happens? The other person automatically goes, I relate to that. I relate to that. I have struggles too. I relate to that. I struggle. Number two, authenticity and integrity are not the same thing.

• 6:20Jefferson Fisher?

  Integrity says, am I acting in alignment with my values? Authenticity says, am I doing what is real? Or integrity says, am I doing what's right? Authenticity says, am I being real? Am I acting in alignment with my true feelings, my true emotions, my true identity?

• 6:42Jefferson Fisher?

  Integrity is the actions that a lot of people don't see. Authenticity is the transparency that I am matching on the inside as I am on the outside, that you are seeing what is real with me. There are so many, myself included, it happens in conversation all the time where I, maybe you fake niceness, or you don't really feel like being nice. You, or maybe you act like you're not frustrated, when you really are, or you say that, "Yeah, I totally understand, that makes sense," when inside you're really confused. There are plenty of examples where you are not being authentic, you're not being real with how you're truly showing up, how you're really feeling in the conversation.

• 7:24Jefferson Fisher?

  Integrity says, "Am I, I know what is right, am I doing what's right?" Integrity says, "Am I going to choose to tell the truth even when lying would be so much easier? Am I walking in that integrity?" Authenticity is, "Am I doing what is, am I laying myself open to say, 'This is how I truly feel about this.'" That in goes into kindness, that deep connection that we talked about, the nice versus kind. That's how you know that you're being kind, is when it's related to absolutely you being authentic. You can't be kind and yet not be authentic. The two don't relate.

• 8:06Jefferson Fisher?

  Maybe you can be nice and not be authentic, but you can't do it with kindness. Because kindness is so much deeper. Now, before we continue, I want to take a second to tell you about Peak, P-I-Q-U-E. Now, y'all know that I am a tea guy. Didn't expect that in my life. I've always thought I'm going to be coffee all the way, and I still like my coffee, don't get me wrong. But tea is something that I very much enjoy, especially if I am traveling all the time. Coffee can make you dehydrated, and then if you drink a whole lot of it, it's not all that great. What I like about Peak is that they come in these packets, these dry crystals, that I can just rip open, pour them into water, there's no steeping, no hot water boiling, any of that. I can just do it on the go. Like today, I'm going to the airport, I got some Peak, gonna use it. What's cool about them is that they have

• 8:51Jefferson Fisher?

  Different products that are specific to things that are important in your life. For example, my energy, right? My gut health, that's important. My digestion. Maybe it's your skin. Maybe it's your hydration. Maybe it's your energy. Whatever it is, they have a tea that's specifically for that and they load them up with prebiotics and probiotics to help make sure that you have a balanced system in you and that's worth having. So it dissolves instantly, hot or cold, no steeping, no mess, just clean, powerful tea that works. Feel the holiday magic and unlock your healthiest glow with 20% off site wide for life, plus a complimentary exclusive holiday bundle.

• 9:32Jefferson Fisher?

  Go to peaklife.com/jefferson. That is P I Q U E life.com/jefferson. Clear gut, clear head, clear conversations. And now back to the episode. So one, what we talked about was you have to understand that perfection is not the standard. We relate to the struggle. Begin your sentence with, I am struggling with. Number two, authenticity and integrity, not the same thing. They're related. Both of them say, is my inside matching my outside? Am I acting in alignment with my, with me, with who I am, what I hold. But they ask two different questions. Authenticity says, am I being real? Integrity says, am I doing what is right to me? And am I acting just?

• 10:17Jefferson Fisher?

  Number three, and that's the reason I, the reason I mentioned this and the reason I want you to know that is because there are many that ask me, you know, I want to show up with integrity in conversation. And why I try to sway them is what you're really looking for is authenticity. You want to see what's real. Sometimes they have to see you struggle. That goes back to number one. You feel like kindness is something that is for the weak. Integrity is something that is only for those who are trying to do the right thing. Anybody can have integrity. It takes a lot of honesty to do that. Honesty with yourself, honesty with other people. Those are very tied together.

• 11:02Jefferson Fisher?

  You cannot do that. Number three, your presence in conversation will always trump your technique. I can give you lots of phrases. I can give you lots of techniques. If you listen and are a subscriber to this podcast, you know, I give a lot of techniques that improve your conversation for how to handle relationships with your parents, relationships with your kids, at work, with yourself, wherever you are, to help that communication. But listen to me, technique is a Band-Aid for what is deeper. I often get it when I coach high-functioning professionals, that they are looking for the technique that's going to get them past the finish line. They're wanting that sense of perfection to reach that goal.

• 11:48Jefferson Fisher?

  But what I always remind them is, techniques, they are just a means to an end. They don't solve the back end of it. They don't solve your true presence. What's the presence? That is what's in your head, the discernment that you have, the wisdom that you have in that moment of knowing yourself, of knowing, have you had issues your whole life? Do you get nervous in certain situations? Do you feel like you're not enough? Do you feel like you always have to be perfect? Do you feel like you can't make mistakes? These things that are always related to your conversation. So what is the point of today's podcast? The point of today's podcast is for you to understand that if you are not being real in your conversation,

• 12:32Jefferson Fisher?

  then you're really not having a conversation.

• 12:36Jefferson Fisher?

  You're having a show. If you're not being real in conversation, it's not conversation. It's a show. It's a performance. You're giving them a version of yourself that is not true to you.

• 12:52Jefferson Fisher?

  That's not walking with integrity. That's not acting with integrity. And that's not being authentic.

• 12:59Jefferson Fisher?

  Think of the times where both you or the other person had said, "I just want you to be real. You don't have to have the perfect thing to say." So, on top of you understanding that that's not a true conversation, what I also want to give you is this understanding of give yourself a little bit of compassion to find out what's really wrong. Why do you struggle with authenticity and keep pulling back the layers? What is about it that makes you not want to be vulnerable in conversation? I've done that. I continually do that. What is it about the conversation that makes you want to get defensive and clam up? Every time, there's something else deeper. I have people that would say, "They just know how to hit my button."

• 13:43Jefferson Fisher?

  You know, they just, they hit my button. My question to them is always, "Well, why is there a button?

• 13:48Jefferson Fisher?

  What's, what's going on? Why are you allowing them to, to do that? What kind of access are you giving them? Why is there a button there in the first place? And usually, that's always inner work that's going on between them. So, here is the final takeaway. My guess is you're listening right now because you have a conversation that is incredibly important to your life coming up. And I'm, I am going to be your number one cheerleader, your coach, to say, "You can do this." And when you get to the point, whether you want to be nice and say what is, sounds good and what sounds perfect, and you say, "I need to look at everything that Jefferson has and make sure I have the perfect phrasing."

• 14:33Jefferson Fisher?

  What I'm telling you is, forget all of that. And you have to go with what is true to you. You have to speak with authenticity, even when it hurts them. You have to speak with truth, even when it's messy.

• 14:50Jefferson Fisher?

  Especially when it's messy. Because if you don't, what you're living is not a true life. And in fact, that conversation is not a true conversation. So I'm encouraging you today, when you get the chance, speak with authenticity. What does that mean? It is asking the question, am I being real? Am I truly being real with my feelings and my emotions? Or am I covering them up? Am I dismissing them? Am I mitigating them in some way? Am I trying to manage this? Or am I being open with how I truly feel? That's going to allow us to have a real conversation. If you need help with that, use that phrase, "what I'm struggling with." I'm struggling with. I'm struggling with the feeling.

• 15:34Jefferson Fisher?

  I'm struggling with the emotion. When you share your struggles, that is the number one way of creating authenticity in that conversation. All right? I know you can do it. I hope you have a great rest of your day. You can always try that and follow me.

• 15:50Speaker 02

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid, and risked 350,000 Virginians' health care to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes, and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the HouseMajorityPac.com. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.