How to Shut Down Someone Trying to Provoke You

Some conversations test your patience. Others test your character. In this call-in episode, I answer your questions about staying calm when emotions run high, setting boundaries with the people you love, handling conflict with confidence, and responding without losing yourself. How do you get people to like you? What do you do with an estranged parent? I answer your questions. Leave me a voicemail to be featured on the show! https://www.jeffersonfisher.com/ask-jefferson Join me on Supercast for ad-free episodes, bonus content, and AMAs: https://jefferson.supercast.com/ Order The Next Conversation Workbook: https://www.jeffersonfisher.com/workbook Thank you to our sponsors: LMNT: Go to https://drinkLMNT.com/jefferson for a free sample pack with any order. MASA Chips: Go to ⁠https://masachips.com/jefferson⁠ and get up to 25% off your order. BetterHelp. Click https://betterhelp.com/jeffersonfisher for a discount on your first month of therapy. Like what you hear? Don’t forget to subscribe and leave a 5-star review! Order my new book, The Next Conversation, today! https://www.jeffersonfisher.com/book Suggest a topic or ask a question for me to answer on the show! https://www.jeffersonfisher.com/topic Join my School of Communication. https://www.jeffersonfisher.com/membership Follow me on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/jefferson_fisher Follow me on TikTok https://www.tiktok.com/@justaskjefferson?lang=en Follow me on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeffersonfisher/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid, and risked 350,000 Virginians' health care to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes, and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the HouseMajorityPac.com. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.

• 0:29Speaker 01

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• 0:44Speaker 02

  When a family member throws something out there that's kind of hurtful, whether it be politics-related or religious-related, just to get a rise or to hurt or to wound you, how to best approach that? Not taking the bait, being a wet blanket, all of those things? Just some phrases that can maybe help? Because it is hurtful. And not saying anything, you kind of feel like you're left carrying it. So I'd appreciate your thoughts on that. Thanks so much.

• 1:14Jefferson Fisher?

  When that family member is trying to put something out in the middle of the room, knowing that it's going to ruffle some feathers, knowing that it might pour some, put some salt in the wound, this is where I want you to go. Number one, very easy wet blanket neutral statement is the noted. Got it? Thank you for that. One of my favorites is maybe so. Yeah, maybe so. Has a very quick, easy way of just well, settling the conversation because you're saying, I'm not agreeing, I'm not disagreeing. Yeah, maybe it is. Maybe it's not. Yeah, maybe so. Or that's interesting. These short, neutral phrases that they can't do anything with. They can't fight that. They can't argue against that.

• 1:58Jefferson Fisher?

  When you say maybe so, there's nothing they can say to try and push against that. Number two, if you need to, put up a simple boundary. Okay? Put up a simple boundary of, hey, I'm not going to discuss politics at the dinner table. If this is where it's going, you can count me out. I don't discuss religion during this. I'm not going to discuss this topic, this issue, this whatever. Whatever it is, I'm not going to discuss this today or here or during our time together. If you are full steam ahead, if you are insistent, if that's the only thing you want to talk about,

• 2:43Jefferson Fisher?

  then, see, this is like the third step of the boundary. Then I'm going to need to step away from the conversation. Or then I'm going to, I'll be involved. You can count me in at a later date on the conversation, later today. Or then I'm going to, I'm going to need to leave the room. Or this conversation is over. I'm going to need to put an end to the conversation. Whatever it is, the consequence of saying, hey, then you can count, you can count me out. A simple boundary that's said lighthearted can go a very long way. Number three, one of my favorites that I love to use, and I use this on my own family members sometimes when I know my grandfather just, he's throwing a bomb right there in the middle of the conversation, knowing full well what he's doing,

• 3:27Jefferson Fisher?

  is I have to see that most of the time they're doing that to feel something. They want to feel engaged. They want to feel relevant. They want to feel like they have some kind of control over not only their life, but over you as well. They just want to feel something again. So they're looking for somebody to spar with. They don't really care about the result. They don't care about, you know, what it really all means. They're just looking for somebody to spar with, to have a conversation with because it's engaging to them. It's fun to them in this sense. It's like people who kind of play wrestle. They know they're not going to really do anything with it. Now, what I hear you saying is different. You're saying, hey, this hurts. This hurts me. That's different. If there's an actual pain and a wound there, that's very different.

• 4:10Jefferson Fisher?

  What I like to say is, I'd rather hear about you. So I'll go, you know what, grandfather? I'd rather hear about you. Hey, Papa, I'd rather, I'd rather hear about you. Now, that may not be true for you. You may not really want to hear about them. That's, that's different. Then I'd go to the boundary because if it's a true wound, you need to state that, hey, what you're bringing up is hurtful to me? Or maybe you need to pose it as a question, right? Did you say that to hurt me? Did you say that to upset me? Are you bringing that up to create a rift or create some drama or create friction right now? And usually when you ask that kind of question, they'll go, whoa, whoa, whoa, you know, no, not at all. And they'll, they'll back away or they're going to lean into it. And therefore, it's going to let you know whether or not you need to have

• 4:55Jefferson Fisher?

  a very hard boundary to stay out of that conversation. Awesome question.

• 4:59Speaker 04

  How do you like yourself? When other people don't like you and you've convinced yourself you're not likable? I've taken, I've tried to take communication courses because I figured it's got to be in the communication style. But I'm also not a person who believes in, you know, whining and dining someone just to get them to like me. So how do you like yourself? There's a lot of families that won't even speak to me. I just, I don't know. You can only take too much, so much of it. You can only take so much of that. I'm at that point. Thank you.

• 5:34Jefferson Fisher?

  Well, let me be the first to say, I like you. I'm glad you called. I like you. How do you? How do you, how do you like that? I hear you saying, how do I like myself when other people don't like me? In other words, you're making someone else liking you the condition by which you like yourself. That is the opposite of what I want you to do. It is not the other person's value of you that derives, makes, changes, has control over your perspective of whether you like yourself. That's, that's not how it works. It's not, I'm not okay if,

• 6:17Jefferson Fisher?

  I'm not okay with me if they're not okay with me. That's not how it works. We're going to flip it. So instead of Jeffers like, how do you like yourself when other people don't like you? I want to hear, I really like myself and that helps me like other people. We're just turning that, that phrase right on its head. It's not, how do I like myself when other people don't? Eliminate the condition. I like myself. Full stop, period. I like myself. It's not, it's not conditioned on anything else. It's not prefaced on anything else. It's just me. Do you like yourself to the exclusion of anything else in the world?

• 6:58Jefferson Fisher?

  Do you believe that you alone have value? Then, separate sentence. That helps me like other people. The love for myself helps me love other people. I like you. There are other people listening who like you just because the question that you posed. So that eliminates the condition right there. Right there, proves it false, that people don't like you. Right? Now, what I hear you saying is, I struggle with some self-confidence of feeling like I have to manage everybody else's feelings. I don't feel like people really like me. This is where I need you

• 7:41Jefferson Fisher?

  to really look within yourself and say, do I like other people? Do I like other people? Or is my like for others only limited by how much I feel like I'm getting from somebody else? Okay? There are two types of mindsets I want you to research. I want you to look at. And one is an abundance mindset or one is a scarcity mindset. And I want to ask, I want you to ask the question when you're looking at this, which one is me and which one do I want to be? Is it possible that I can just say, I like everybody, whether or not they like me or not? Because most of the time, people like people who like them. Right? Or am I a scarcity mindset that says,

• 8:25Jefferson Fisher?

  I don't think that they like me and therefore I don't like me and nothing is good that I like? See, that, that is, that is a very pessimistic attitude that I want to erase. Okay? It is not, how do I like myself when other people don't like me? It's, I like me and that helps me like and love on other people. I love me.

• 8:50Jefferson Fisher?

  Therefore, I love other people regardless of anything that happens in return.

• 8:57Jefferson Fisher?

  Before we keep going, I want to take a moment to tell you about Element. When I am traveling and my family typically is always coming with me, we want to make sure that we stay hydrated. And because if somebody's dehydrated, especially after you've been on a plane or traveling, everything goes south in a hurry and then people get grumpy and it doesn't go well. One thing that we love, that we put into our water bottles when we're traveling is Element. It comes in this little bitty dry packet that you rip off. And I put about half of it into a bottle of water and that's what I use. Now, my kids, they love the seltzer water from Element. They call it salty water, salty drink. And we kind of use it as a dessert because they love it. There's a pineapple flavor and a black cherry flavor that my kids absolutely cannot get enough of. I think my son drinks one probably every two days.

• 9:42Jefferson Fisher?

  That's how much he likes it in our house. My favorite flavor is the lemonade. They also have this kind of Arnold Palmer flavor that is both iced tea and lemonade that I really like. Anyway, it's knowing that it's zero sugar. It's good stuff and it's going to hydrate you. And right now they're offering our listeners a free sample pack with any order. Right now you can go head on over to Element. It's LMNT is how it's spelled. So you can go do drink LMNT.com/Jefferson to try it risk free. That's drink LMNT.com/Jefferson. And now let's keep going.

• 10:16Speaker 05

  I just wanted to say I'm a big fan of your podcast, your YouTube videos. And I also recently purchased your book. Your book has been a game changer for me and I've been practicing all the phrases in my life and it's been really amazing. And I just want to express some heartfelt thanks to that because it's something that I've really struggled with in my life, like setting boundaries. I'm autistic and I have sensory sensitivities. And basically my question for you is what is the best way to enforce boundaries around people who just don't get it? I've seen this a lot in my family where I will say, hey, this is too loud. I need to wear earplugs or this texture is the wrong texture. I can't wear this clothing. And unfortunately I've dealt with like a lot of gaslighting in my family around sensory sensitivities

• 11:01Speaker 05

  because people who I grew up with aren't autistic, they don't get it. Sometimes they'll take personal offense to things like that, too. What is the best way to enforce boundaries for sensory sensitivities? And furthermore, what is the best way to make it clear that I'm not budging on those boundaries? That I'm going to continue wearing earplugs? That I'm going to continue protecting myself against the sensory environment around people who don't understand, around people who might be ignorant or even intentionally harmful in other cases as well?

• 11:34Jefferson Fisher?

  First off, I want you to know what you just said to me took an incredible amount of courage. This is a topic and issue I do not think it's spoken and mentioned nearly enough. Is that nearly enough of those who have sensory type issues? Whether it's visual, whether it's auditory, whatever it is, texture over sensory issues? And I just want to say thank you. Thank you for bringing this up so we can talk about this and bring more awareness to this topic. Really, truly thank you. Here's what I want you to know. Number one, it is not your responsibility for them to get it. It is not your responsibility that they get it. My grandfather used to tell me, I can only tell it to you.

• 12:19Jefferson Fisher?

  I can't understand it for you. That's not your job to make them understand, to get them to, to, to reach this point where they understand it. They get it. It doesn't matter how much information you pour into them. That is whether or not that light bulb clicks, you can't go reach across and click it for them. They're going to have to do that for themselves. So I need you to know inside that you're doing the right thing for you. And it is not your job, not yours to carry, to make the other person understand. Number two, I want to flip the way you're viewing the sensory issue. Instead of feeling like, oh, these are my, sorry, these are my earplugs. So sorry. No, I need you to have a, hey, these are not earplugs.

• 13:04Jefferson Fisher?

  These are my listening ears. Like this is whatever shirt it is. Oh, I'm sorry, it's too touchy. It's, this is my feel-good shirt. There are shirts that feel good and these are, these are, this is part of my feel-good club. I need you to have a more playful, positive mindset of how you're approaching it. Why? Because that makes you think more positive and makes you take more ownership of, yes, this is what I'm doing for, for me and me alone, not for other people. I'm not setting myself up to where all I'm doing is managing somebody else's expectation. You feel me? So whenever you are under that tension of, oh, I need to explain it to them somehow. You don't. First off, no, you don't.

• 13:47Jefferson Fisher?

  If you want to, and that is if you want to, state it in a positive relationship that brings levity, that they're going to feel more comfortable and you're going to feel more comfortable communicating about it. In other words, it's like if somebody asks, you know, what do you, what do you need these for? Oh, these help me keep the sad sounds out and keep the happy sounds in. Right? These keep, help keep loud noises out so that I can keep my focus in. Where you're able to stay in it and, and explain it in a way that they might be able to understand a little bit more rather than going all into feeling like you have the burden to go, oh, well, I have, you know, you press record and you're always playing the tape of, well, I have autism and of course I have sensory issues.

• 14:30Jefferson Fisher?

  And I'm like, you feel like you have to provide this formula for them. It didn't have to go that, that far. I want you to keep it really high level surface to where you can say, this is, this helps me stay more focused, it helps me listen a little bit better. This helps me feel more comfortable where we're at right now. And this helps me feel more present. Right? Rather than feeling like you have, have all this baggage of over explaining in it. Number three, when it comes to the boundary, which I love how you put that, you know, how do I assert this kind of boundary? And let's say you're in a family situation and some member makes some kind of passive aggressive comment of what you need in that moment.

• 15:11Jefferson Fisher?

  If it's too loud or you're, you're needing to step away or put earplugs in or whatever it is, the sensory alarm is, is setting off. I need you to be able to say, I need, right? Begin with I. I need to make sure that I wear my, my listening ears or my earplugs, whatever you want to call them. Then it's if. If my earplugs are threatening to you in some way, I'm going to need to step away from this environment. I'm going to need to step, I need to take a step back from this conversation. I'm going to need to make sure that I go into the other room for a little bit. Right? I like the if this is threatening to you in some way.

• 15:57Jefferson Fisher?

  The reason I like it is because it calls to attention of, hey, are you, are you really threatened by this? Or is it just because it's, it's not common for you and therefore you don't like it because it's changed and it's not exactly like you are? But does that mean that it's, it's threatening to you in some way? To me is a way of, of calling that out, speaking that out. But no matter what it is, I want to make sure that you have a, a positive relationship, a self-esteem grounding relationship with the issues that are yours. And rather than feeling like you have to manage everybody else's expectations,

• 16:39Jefferson Fisher?

  it is not your responsibility for them to get it.

• 16:44Speaker 06

  Hi Jefferson, I am taking space from my father and I need help deciding how to move forward after what happened surrounding my wedding. Our relationship was complicated long before this. My grandparents largely raised me. My father started a new family, moved away and left my brother and me in New Hampshire. So he believes he fulfilled his responsibilities because we were financially cared for, but emotionally he was not there. I've never confronted him about how deeply my past has affected me. Instead, I've continued trying to have a relationship with him and gave him a lot of passes. I went through cancer and chemotherapy in 2024. And after everything I survived, I was finally getting married and having a small wedding with only 20 people.

• 17:27Speaker 06

  My father pressured me to invite his wife, even though she has not been a part of my life for more than a decade. Without going into too many details, she has serious mental issues and her behavior caused my father, my half brothers and me significant pain. She's never met my fiance and she's been completely absent in my life for the past 15 years. When I told him that she was not invited due to the wedding being 20 people, my father said he had to think about whether he would attend. I was hurt by this and gave him two days and he still said he needed more time. He said he wouldn't have a good time without her and that attending alone could damage his marriage. During the same conversation, he repeatedly mentioned his health issues. He kept saying it was my decision, but made me feel responsible for his health, his marriage

• 18:11Speaker 06

  and his unhappiness, even if I, like if I did not invite her. It was extremely manipulative and instead of celebrating his daughter that survives cancer and she's finally getting married, he made the wedding about himself. The conflict escalated. He screamed at me and my brother and I ended up telling him not to come. I canceled the wedding and decided to elope in Italy, which is a much better decision, but I'm not talking to him at all and I'm taking space. I'm deciding whether I want a limited relationship or no relationship at all. People keep saying, but he is your father, as though that means I must continue accepting this. How do I know when it is time to stop hoping that a parent will become the person you need him to be? How do I decide whether to leave the door open or walk away?

• 18:56Speaker 06

  And how do I stop, he is your father, from making the decision for me? Thank you.

• 19:00Jefferson Fisher?

  First off, I want you to know that I am immensely proud of you because you had to make a very hard decision with whether or not he was coming to your wedding. And it sounds like that, that rift, that friction changed the special day you were wanting to have for you eloping and celebrating a new life together. And that caused, and that almost put a bruise on, on, on that apple for you to not be able to have that moment that you wanted and you had to do something different. And for you to put up that boundary and stand firm in it, I'm very proud of that. I think you made the right call in, in that very, very difficult decision.

• 19:41Jefferson Fisher?

  Number two, somebody being your parent, just by the, the simple fact that they are your mother or your father and their DNA is inside of you and they played some role in creating you, that does not earn them the spot.

• 20:01Jefferson Fisher?

  Of being in that role in your life. Because he has been absent throughout your entire childhood. That does not earn him the right in being present in all of your adulthood. That spot has to be earned. It is not freely given. So when somebody says, but he's your dad. That that should be the same as saying, but he's a a human male, like it does not earn that spot. So I think you're exactly right of the the care and love that you receive somebody is not something that is just, it comes because they are a mom or a dad or a caregiver in some way.

• 20:42Jefferson Fisher?

  That spot is earned through love, attention and connection and being present emotionally and physically throughout your life. Number three. How do you know whether or not to cut him off to continue in this estrangement or to bring it back? Here's the test that I would give is one, can he take ownership of the pain that he caused you in your childhood? The the original source to the root of everything where it is where he abandoned you, left you with grandparents and said, hands off. If he is not willing to go back in time and start owning it, meaning he's using words of affirmation, words of accountability, words of ownership.

• 21:25Jefferson Fisher?

  If he's not willing to do that now, he will not ever be able to do that. And if he's not able to, there is your answer that it is much more practical and much safer for your own security, your own peace of mind to continue in that separation. That doesn't mean the door is not going to be open and we, I would, I would hope and pray that he is going to realize the pain that he's caused. And you know what I would truly recommend is that this would, to me, this is absolutely a relationship that would require another professional. A therapist, a psychologist that is in the room with you and your father being able to break this all down where you get the voice. I need to hear this. I need to hear this.

• 22:08Jefferson Fisher?

  I need you to understand the pain that has caused me because it all starts at the, at the root. Everything else you mentioned, those are all just symptoms of an underlying cause. And that is a father that abandoned you early on. And just because he was your father does not right to earn him that slot later on in life. Super proud of the steps that you're taking. Before we keep going, I want to take a moment to tell you about masa chips. That's right. I am telling you about chips because these things are that good. Anytime we get some of these in the house, I know they are gone. So if I'm going to eat some, I better eat them as soon as I see them or my family is going to devour them. Our favorite flavor, my favorite flavor is just the original. They have the original and also the white corn chip.

• 22:52Jefferson Fisher?

  My kids love the churro flavor naturally. And also Sierra really loves the, the blue corn chip. What makes these different than any other tortilla chip is that they're made with beef tallow. And so they taste really good and you can eat several of them and don't feel that bloated bunch of seed oil stuff that you might get from other brands where you realize, oh my gosh, you've eaten half a bag and now you're gonna not gonna be feeling good for a while. Masa chips are fantastic. They're small batch. They're great. Right now you can go to masa chips.com. That's M A S A masa chips.com slash Jefferson and get up to 25% off your order right now. Masa chips.com slash Jefferson. And now let's keep going.

• 23:32Speaker 07

  Been married almost 50 years. My wife has anxiety, extraordinary mood swings, and she becomes violent when she's in an anxiety mood swing. And she's hit me a whole number of times and she's hitting me again. And my question, my direct question is, what do I do? I don't want to call the police. She's very uptight when she's in that situation and it's anxiety. I understand. What should I do? So I leave the house? Should I do nothing? I try to talk to her, can't talk to her when she's in that state of mind. But anyway, my question is, what do I do? Thank you for listening.

• 24:07Jefferson Fisher?

  Man, thank you for, for that question. I want to, man.

• 24:16Jefferson Fisher?

  You're in a situation that's more common than people want to share.

• 24:23Jefferson Fisher?

  And so if you're listening right now and you can relate

• 24:28Jefferson Fisher?

  to

• 24:32Jefferson Fisher?

  abusive situations in relationships, can you just give him some love right now? Just tell him that you see him? You hear him?

• 24:43Jefferson Fisher?

  That's a really hard situation when there is abuse with the person you love. You've been married 50 years, 50 years.

• 24:52Jefferson Fisher?

  Question of what do you do?

• 24:57Jefferson Fisher?

  I'm going to lay out the options. And it's the

• 25:02Jefferson Fisher?

  most obvious one first is one, you have the full legal right to call the law, police and report domestic abuse. Or the police would come, step in, make a report. And in certain situations, there could be anything from some type of restraining order to arrest to you, you name it. If, if the injury is bad enough, that might sway how you feel because I hear you going, I don't want to do that. This is who I love. Yeah, I will tell you, it is an option. You do not have to live in fear. You do not have to live in fear of imminent threat to your, your body.

• 25:44Jefferson Fisher?

  Okay, you should not be living in a state of fear where you're, you're physically afraid of being injured. That's not okay. That's not okay.

• 25:57Jefferson Fisher?

  Just know that's an option. Two. My recommendation

• 26:04Jefferson Fisher?

  is if it gets to that situation with your spouse where she starts throwing things at you. I'm talking bad things, things that are sharp. Could cause a lot of damage. You need to leave. That does not mean you're giving up.

• 26:22Jefferson Fisher?

  That means you are taking space away to make sure that you're protecting both of you. Because like you said, you said, this is when she's in that state of mind. Meaning what that tells me is there's a wave. There's a up and it crashes and then it's gone because it's, it sounds like it's something very mental. It's her anxiety. It's a lot of things bubbling on again. I don't know the context. I don't know what y'all argue about. I don't know what topic it is or what's happened in your past that has gotten her feeling like this or what the subject is at all. All right. But what I do know is her hitting you, being physically violent is not okay.

• 27:05Jefferson Fisher?

  So if you do not want to call the police and call law enforcement, the other option is for you to leave, leave the room, lock the door, leave the house, go somewhere else until that state of mind has, until that wave has crashed and gone down. Okay, until, until that wave is over. And that her logical brain has, has come back on and engaged. You cannot live in fear of always wondering, are you talking to Dr. Jekyll or Mr. Hyde? Like the two different types of personalities. And, and truth is, you might be dealing with a psychological personality disorder. I do not know.

• 27:47Jefferson Fisher?

  What I do know is aside from telling you to that you can leave the room, which I would highly encourage you to do, do not stay present to where you are in physical imminent danger. Is three, get help from a professional.

• 28:04Jefferson Fisher?

  That means you need to say, I cannot be in this relationship. If you are not willing to speak with a professional for all of us and how to handle these episodes that happen, how to find other ways to manage our anger, manage our conversations, manage our arguments, whatever it is. There, there has to be a path because what you're living in is not

• 28:34Jefferson Fisher?

  it's, it is untenable. You cannot live in, in what you're in right now. So one, yes, you have the option to call law enforcement. Two, I would absolutely leave the room, leave wherever that the, the interaction, the fight is happening. And three, seek professional help because there's no words or phrases I'm going to be able to tell you that's going to calm that situation. So when you ask me, what do I do?

• 29:04Jefferson Fisher?

  Leave the room.

• 29:06Jefferson Fisher?

  And be able to go seek professional help. Now, if she's unwilling to get help, then that is a big question of whether or not you'd be willing to separate, whether that this marriage needs to exist in the, in the form that it exists because

• 29:22Jefferson Fisher?

  there, there is no excuse for physical imminent harm.

• 29:28Speaker 00

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid and risked 350,000 Virginians healthcare to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the House Majority PAC.com. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.