How to Argue with a Narcissist! How to Identify a Narcissist + Key Secrets & Rules You Don’t want to Break w/Jefferson Fisher

How To Argue With A Narcissist! How do you identify one? If you have a narcissist in your family, friend circle or at work, this episode is for you! Communication Phenom and trial attorney, Jefferson Fisher answers your most pressing questions including: How do you talk To or respond to a narcissist? How do you most effectively communicate with a narcissist? I am so excited for today’s episode, and back by popular demand, Jefferson Fisher shares the Key Secrets and Rules You Don’t want to Break, For Arguing With A Narcissist whether at home, in friendships or in the workplace, and how it can impact all areas of our lives! JEFFERSON FISHER is a trial lawyer, 5th generation award-winning attorney, writer, and speaker whose work has gained him millions of followers all over the world, through short, simple, practical social media videos teaching people how to argue less and talk more. Whether it’s handling a heated conversation, dealing with a difficult personality, or standing your ground with confidence, Jefferson helps you communicate during life's everyday arguments and conversations! His brand-new book, The Next Conversation – Argue Less, Talk Moreis out now! Jefferson says you can change everything about your life by what you say next! And you and I are in for a treat because Jefferson has stepped away from his busy legal practice to fly here and be with YOU and me today! And whether you're joining me today for yourself or because someone that you love shared this episode with you, I want to welcome you to the Jamie Kern Lima Show podcast family. And remember this episode is not just for you and me. Please share it with every single person that you know because it can change their life too. Episode Reflection Questions for YOU: Jamie writes prompt questions each episode to spark revelations in your self-worth journey and help you apply the tools and lessons from each episode into your real life right now. Please make sure you’re signed up for Jamie’s free inspirational newsletter jamiekernlima.com 👈 Get my new book WORTHY plus FREE Bonus gifts including a 95+ page Worthy Workbook and more at WorthyBook.com Jefferson's book, The Next Conversation – Argue Less, Talk More, is available at https://www.jeffersonfisher.com/book. For more resources related to today’s episode, click here https://jamiekernlima.com/show/ for the podcast episode page. Chapters: 0:00 Welcome to The Jamie Kern Lima Show 4:00 Identifying a Narcissist 7:22 No Response Is A Response 10:02 How To Stand In Your Power 14:00 Why You Don’t Need An Apology 15:25 Narcissists and Empathy It’s such an honor to share this podcast together with you. And please note: I am not a licensed therapist, and this podcast is NOT intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional. Click Here to Subscribe to the YouTube Channel Follow me here: Instagram TikTok Facebook Website — Sign up for my inspirational newsletter for YOU at: jamiekernlima.com — Looking for my books on Amazon? Here they are! WORTHY Believe IT

• 0:00Speaker 00

  How do you argue with a narcissist? How do you talk to a narcissist? How do you most effectively communicate with a narcissist? I am so excited for today's episode. And back by popular demand, communication phenom and trial attorney Jefferson Fisher is here to talk with you and me today about the key secrets and rules you don't want to break for arguing with a narcissist, whether at home, in friendships, or in the workplace, and how it impacts all areas of our lives. Jefferson Fisher is a trial lawyer, a fifth generation, award-winning attorney, writer,

• 0:40Speaker 00

  and speaker, whose work has gained him millions of followers all over the world through short, simple, practical, social media videos, teaching people how to argue less and talk more. Whether it's handling a heated conversation, dealing with a difficult personality, or standing your ground with confidence, Jefferson helps you communicate during life's everyday arguments and conversations. And his brand new book, called The Next Conversation: Argue Less, Talk More, is out now. Jefferson says, you can change everything about your life by what you say next. And you and I are in for a treat because Jefferson has stepped away from his busy legal practice.

• 1:23Speaker 00

  He got on an airplane, he flew here to be with you and me today. Whether you're listening for yourself, or because someone that you love shared this episode with you, I want to welcome you to the Jamie Kern Lima Show Podcast Family. Remember, this episode is not just for you and me. Please share this with every single person you know, because it can change their life too. Before we jump into this episode, I'd be so grateful if you'd take two seconds to click on the follow or subscribe button on the app you're listening or watching the podcast on. It'll help you because you're going to be the very first to get the episodes, and it's going to help the show, because by you following it, it's more likely to be promoted to others to discover.

• 2:07Speaker 00

  And if you leave a five-star review, that would be even more amazing. And just thank you so much. This is our show together, and it truly means so much to me.

• 2:17Speaker 01

  Jamie Kern Lima is her name. Everybody needs Jamie Kern Lima in their life.

• 2:21Speaker 02

  Jamie Kern Lima.

• 2:26Speaker 00

  Jamie, you're so inspiring. Jamie Kern Lima.

• 2:32Speaker 00

  Jefferson Fisher, welcome to the Jamie Kern Lima Show.

• 2:34Speaker 03

  Thank you so much for having me, Jamie. I'm honored to be here.

• 2:37Speaker 00

  I'm so excited you're here. Wow, what has happened with you, with your advice, with your videos? It has become a phenomenon.

• 2:48Speaker 03

  Thank you. You're very sweet. Thank you. Yeah, it's truly been a blessing, and right now, I'm just holding on.

• 2:53Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah. Well, I'm excited so much to dive into today narcissist.

• 2:59Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 3:00Speaker 00

  Narcissist. Jefferson Fisher, some of your most viewed videos are about how to handle narcissists in our life. So many people have a narcissist who's a parent.

• 3:13Speaker 03

  Right.

• 3:13Speaker 00

  Or, and they didn't even know what that meant until a year ago. And now they're like, whoa, I was raised with that. And I'm, or perhaps it's a partner, or it's friends. In your new book, The Next Conversation, right?

• 3:27Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 3:27Speaker 00

  Which is argue less, talk more, so many great tools. You know, I read it cover to cover, and I'm already applying some of the tools to my life right now, which I'm so grateful for. I'm so excited for everyone to pick up their copy. And we get so many questions. Oh, my gosh, I get emails, I get DMs, right? About, you know, how does being with a narcissist impact my self-worth? How do I, you know, how do I know if I'm a narcissist? I get that question a lot. So, you know, just to ask you, you know, off the top, what is, how do you define a narcissist? And how does somebody know if there's one in their life, or if they're one?

• 4:09Speaker 03

  Yeah, oh, yeah. Well, let me get this out of the gate. If you're asking the question, if you're a narcissist, here's a clue. That tells you you're not the narcissist, and you actually have the emotional awareness to ask that question, or even care to ask that question. Ones that are true narcissists, not just people who have narcissistic tendencies, they are somebody who just exhibits maybe toxic behaviors every now and then. We're talking about the people that are tried and true, they are a narcissistic person. They don't have empathy. They don't do empathy. They only do themselves. They have to be the best out of everything.

• 4:50Speaker 03

  They can't take the idea that they are not better than who they're sitting across from, who has the better ideas, who said the better thing. You compliment somebody, they need to put them down to make themselves feel better. It is a continuous loop with these type of personalities, that they want praise and control from you at all times.

• 5:17Speaker 00

  When we find ourselves in an argument with a narcissist?

• 5:22Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 5:23Speaker 00

  What do we do and what don't we do?

• 5:25Speaker 03

  Right. Number one is, you need to acknowledge what you're in. What you're in is a game. It's a game I call praise or provoke. And when you're in a conversation with a narcissist, an argument doesn't matter, you're playing a good game, and it looks beatable. It looks like you could convince them. If you could only get them to understand how it affects you, if you could only get them to acknowledge what they did was wrong, then everything would be okay. Then you could fix them. But the game is rigged. It's like a carnival game. It was built against you. You're not going to win. So, it's a game of praise or provoke, meaning if you're not giving them praise, if you're

• 6:06Speaker 03

  not saying how great they are, then they will turn to provoke you, to cause an argument, because they delight in your praise just as much they delight in your anger, in your emotion, in your response. It's the same thing. They're getting that sense of control, that I can control and manipulate your emotions. So if you ever feel like you're in this circle with somebody, a circular argument with somebody who's a narcissist, they are trying to take a hold of your emotions, and they're feeding off, they feed off of you getting angry at what they said. They like that. When they can jab you and you get mad at that, they like that kind of thing.

• 6:49Speaker 03

  So it is, it is something that you need to first acknowledge your praise or provoke. Number two, like we talked about with gaslighters, you need to use as few words as possible, meaning you just acknowledge what they said, but you don't have to engage in what they said. You're adding that stiff form of distance, as simple as, I hear you, noted, that's good to know. Like just short, concise, indifferent responses, that you're just not feeding into what they're saying. It's not going to, it's not going to get you there. But, and when that happens, they just don't have anywhere to go with it. Three is, you just need to know when to walk away, that no response is very much a response.

• 7:31Speaker 03

  If you think that somebody didn't answer your text for five minutes, this might say something. They didn't answer it for five days, then that says something else. So the power of the pause and the silence by not responding to it at all is often the most powerful move you can make.

• 7:47Speaker 00

  What do you do if you realize somebody really close to you?

• 7:51Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 7:52Speaker 00

  And you're like, whoa, you just started realizing all the signs, and it's like exactly them to a T.

• 7:59Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 8:00Speaker 00

  What do you do?

• 8:02Speaker 03

  Well, it depends on that relationship. If it's one that you need to nurture and you really care about it, you've been dealing with these symptoms. It's, now you just have a way to define it. It doesn't change what you do, it doesn't change how you approach it. It's just, now you have a label to put on that behavior, because the term, I don't think narcissist was really even used until here lately of, now it's, we see these kind of tendencies everywhere, and the way they show up and go, oh, my gosh, yes, this person's a total narcissist. Well, or it's also used sometimes as just a put-down for, somebody says something you don't like, oh, they're a total narcissist. They just disagreed with you. So it's very easy to throw around.

• 8:47Speaker 03

  But you say somebody's in your life, and you're starting to see these signs that they're exhibiting. I think it is worth a conversation at least once, of what you're seeing and what you're worried about. Most likely, they're going, if they are narcissists, they're going to totally disagree, and they are going to make it even worse. That conversation's probably not going to go well. But the point is, you at least said what you needed to say to get it out to them. Next would be just the understanding of, okay, how do I go back to it? You're going to see the praise and provoke. You're going to see that you need to just use very short words, and you need to walk away from conversations anytime then it comes up.

• 9:28Speaker 00

  This is, to your point, it's such a, I mean, it's such a word that, and a concept, and narcissistic tendencies is something that people, so many people are just starting to hear about, or learn about, or research. And I think a lot of people have realized they were maybe raised by a parent who was one.

• 9:50Speaker 00

  Some people are worried they have a child that's exhibiting those kind of tendencies. And I think what you're saying is, okay, once you realize all that, well, you've already been dealing with it for a long time.

• 10:02Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 10:03Speaker 00

  Right? So then, you know, one thing that we can do is go, okay, well, how do I respond? Right? So when an argument starts, now how do I stand my power to not get taken down the path? There's so much more coming up in this episode. You are not going to want to miss it. But first, I wanted to share this with you. In life, you don't soar to the level of your hopes and dreams. You stay stuck at the level of your self-worth. When you build your self-worth, you change your entire life. And that's exactly why I wrote my new book, Worthy, How to Believe You Are Enough and Transform Your Life for You.

• 10:46Speaker 00

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• 11:30Speaker 00

  Imagine a life with zero self-doubt and unshakable self-worth. Get your copy of Worthy, plus some amazing thank you bonus gifts for you at worthybook.com or the link in the show notes below. Imagine what you'd do if you fully believed in you. It's time to find out with Worthy. Imagine, what would you do if you fully believed in you? My weekly free inspirational newsletter is packed with tips and tools to help you find out. It's called One on One with Jamie, and it's delivered right to your inbox each Tuesday morning.

• 12:15Speaker 00

  It's a love letter from me to you, from my soul to yours. And I hope it brings you the words and messages you need at just the right moment. Plus, when you're a part of my free inspirational newsletter community, you'll be the first to get behind-the-scenes content, inspirational messages, and be the first to learn about upcoming events and more. It's the place to be, and I sure hope you'll join me there. So if you're not on the list yet, you can sign up for free at jamiekernlima.com or click the link in the show notes below. And here's to becoming unstoppable together. And now, more of this incredible conversation together.

• 13:00Speaker 00

  I think what you're saying is, okay, once you realize all that, well, you've already been dealing with it for a long time.

• 13:06Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 13:07Speaker 00

  Right? So then, you know, one thing that we can do is go, okay, well, how do I respond? Right? So when an argument starts, now how do I stand my power to not get taken down the path? Because, you know, whenever I've gotten in, you know, discussions or disagreements with people who have narcissistic tendencies, you don't ever feel like, you don't ever feel like you reach a point where there's,

• 13:35Speaker 03

  They get it.

• 13:35Speaker 00

  Where they get it, or where you're heard, or seen, or understood, or, or even if you try to hear, see, and understand them, you don't ever feel like that's sufficient, and it just is a thing forever. And so, you know, whether it's someone who is in having to navigate, whether it's arguing or communicating with a narcissist at work, or somebody in their life, you know, what are your best tips for just how, okay, you can't control them. Of course, you can decide, in most cases, if it's a personal relationship, you know, what are you going to do about that? Are you going to change the, you know, the relationship you have with them or not?

• 14:21Speaker 00

  Sometimes at work, you can't necessarily change that. But that aside, and just saying it is what it is, what are, what are some things that we can do to make sure, you know, we don't go down the rabbit hole, we don't get sucked into it, we don't do the wrong thing, and we also try to protect our peace?

• 14:43Speaker 03

  Yeah. Number one would be understanding that you don't need an apology to make your feelings valid.

• 14:50Speaker 00

  Hmm, like they did something to hurt you, but they're a narcissist, and you keep trying to say, or they have narcissistic tendencies. And you keep trying to say, like, you owe me an apology. Like, you don't understand, I'm saying I need you to say this, that, or the other. And so we sit in that space of thinking, I need this from them.

• 15:07Speaker 03

  Correct.

• 15:08Speaker 00

  Okay, and you're saying, we say that one more time?

• 15:10Speaker 03

  Yeah, you don't need an apology to validate your feelings. You don't need an apology from them to validate your feelings. It doesn't, having them apologize is not the condition by which you're going to determine whether what you felt was real or not. And when you sit there and go, I am so hurt, can you please just see how I, if you could only see how this hurt me, and you try to re-explain it, it is rigged carnival game.

• 15:36Speaker 00

  Rigged carnival game, because they don't have empathy.

• 15:38Speaker 03

  It's not happening. It's not happening.

• 15:40Speaker 00

  You're asking them to do something that they can't do.

• 15:42Speaker 03

  It looks beatable. It should be beatable, but it's not. And so you have to come to the realization that looking for that apology, you don't, it's not going to happen, and you don't need it to convince yourself that your feelings were justified and real.

• 16:00Speaker 00

  And what about to heal? Do you need their acknowledgement or their apology to do that? A lot of people think they do, but, yeah, what do you say to that?

• 16:16Speaker 03

  To me, the apology is always for the other person, not, not for you. Like, it's, you could say something hurtful, and it's totally up to me, my choice, do I catch it, or do I let it go? The apology is really for you to understand what you did was an error. It was a foul ball. Can you acknowledge to me, is what you're saying, when you apologize, can you acknowledge to me that was a foul ball? Yeah, that was a foul ball.

• 16:43Speaker 03

  It has nothing to do with, I need that, I cannot heal, I cannot move one step forward unless I have this apology from you. The apology is not for you, it's for them. When a narcissist is behaving that way, they're not going to, so you're not going to get it. So you just have the, the power within yourself, it's that power of detachment, of saying, they're going to be who they're going to be. I'm going to be who I'm going to be. And, and, and goes back to, whose voice are you listening to? And that you don't need an apology, their aha moment, the light bulb to click. If only you think you could just change them, they'll be everything that you, you want, and they'll finally see it. That's not going to happen. The power is all within yours. You don't need that to heal.

• 17:28Speaker 00

  Remember, this episode is not just for you and me. Please share this with every single person you know, because it can change their life too. Make sure to pick up Jefferson's new book, The Next Conversation, Argue Less, Talk More. And check out his brand new Jefferson Fisher School of Communication. We'll link it in the show notes. And if you loved today's episode too, well, my only ask is you please click on the follow or subscribe button for the show on the app that you're listening or watching it on, then give it a five-star review, and then share this episode with everyone you believe in. Share it with another person in your life who could benefit from it. Post it, and share it with others online or in your community

• 18:11Speaker 00

  who just might need the words and tools and lessons in this episode today. You never know whose life you're meant to change today by sharing this episode. Just thank you so much for joining me. And before you go, I wanted to share some words with you that couldn't be more true. You, right now, exactly as you are, are enough and fully worthy. You're worthy of your greatest hopes, your wildest dreams, and all the unconditional love in the world. It's an honor to welcome you to each episode of the Jamie Kern Lima Show. And here, I hope you'll come as you are and heal where you need,

• 18:50Speaker 00

  blossom what you choose, journey toward your calling, and stay as long as you like, because you belong here. You are worthy, you are loved, you are love, and I love you. And I cannot wait to join you on the next episode of the Jamie Kern Lima Show. Do you struggle with negative self-talk? Living with a constant mental narrative that you're not good enough is exhausting. I know because I spent most of my life in that habit. The words you say to yourself about yourself are so powerful. And when you learn to take control over your self-talk, it's life-changing.

• 19:35Speaker 00

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• 20:18Speaker 00

  yourself to persevere on the path to your dreams, you can grab your free guide to Stop Overthinking and Learn to Trust Yourself at jamiekernlima.com/resources or click the link in the show notes below. Who you spend time around is so important as energy is contagious, and so is self-belief. And I'd love to hang out with you even more, especially if you could use an extra dose of inspiration, which is exactly why I've created my free weekly newsletter that's also a love letter to you, delivered straight to your inbox from me.

• 20:59Speaker 00

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