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Timestamps:
00:00:00 – Intro
00:01:14 – How much debt is too much
00:06:42 – Leveraging debt
00:07:40 – The biggest problem people face with money
00:16:20 – Why money is hard to understand
00:26:04 – How he makes money today
00:28:41 – Best investment advice
00:29:25 – Why he doesn’t invest on Wall Street
00:32:18 – Preparing for bad times
00:34:17 – AI and the future of wealth
00:39:33 – You can’t handle the truth
00:40:35 – Learning through failure
00:42:45 – How to profit from crashes
00:44:33 – Is a major crash coming?
00:46:58 – The boomer housing crisis
00:48:53 – The new financial elites
00:50:34 – Inflation wiping out savers
00:52:20 – Moving money strategically
00:53:01 – Be the best at what you do
00:56:35 – Owning mistakes and accountability
01:01:56 – Traveling the world teaching money
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Transcript 14,623 words · 8 speakers
Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:01 Speaker 00 This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome? That's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration blog, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online make sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up required. Compatibility and availability varies 18 plus.
0:26 Speaker 01 I love crashes. When the markets crash, that's when I get rich.
0:31 Speaker 02 Inflation is causing stress. The United States can pay any debt because we can always print money. If you print bonds in your own currency, what happens to the currency?
0:42 Speaker 01 When the currency collapses, the economy collapses. You have to be ready.
0:49 Graham Stephan? What's your best investment that you've ever made?
0:51 Speaker 01 I wrote a book. Sold 45 million copies of it.
0:56 Graham Stephan? Do you expect some sort of a stock market crash? And how can you get rich during the crash?
1:01 Speaker 01 To me, it's the game. I play Monopoly. Four greenhouses, red hotel, oil wells. There's so many options to get rich, but you've got to find the one that works for you.
1:13 Graham Stephan? Do you see there being a huge issue with money printing and taking on debt within the economy?
1:19 Speaker 01 America loses 2 trillion a year. One of the richest countries in the world. Used to be called Rhodesia. The biggest financial disaster in history took place there because they kept printing money. The US dollar's next.
1:39 Graham Stephan? Robert, thank you so much for coming on the Ice Coffee Hour. You've really changed my life. I think you, when your book came out, I read it in high school, I think 9th grade, and it completely got me thinking about buying assets, not buying liabilities. That completely changed my perspective that from that point onwards, I just wanted to invest my money.
2:01 Speaker 01 Yeah.
2:03 Graham Stephan? And I think I wouldn't be here today if it were not for your book.
2:06 Speaker 01 I'll tell you, that's the greatest joy of my, I'm an old man now, you know? And when I started out about your age, all I could hear was, "You're full of, you're full of..." And I was saying, "Saving money is stupid. You know, savers are losers. Your house is not an asset."
2:26 Speaker 01 You should buy the stocks on the stock market. And I had to fight for my own survival mentally. So I meet young guys like you. You have more options. And that's the thing is there's so many options to get rich. But you got to find the one that works for you. You know, so it's great. Yeah. That makes me happiest.
2:46 Graham Stephan? Thank you. Curious, how much debt do you have?
2:50 Speaker 01 One billion, two.
2:52 Graham Stephan? Does that ever make you nervous? Are you ever worried about defaulting on the debt?
2:57 Speaker 01 I mean, it gets me sexually stimulated. Now, I'll tell you why, okay? You owe the bank $20 million and you can't pay it back. You got a problem. But you owe the bank a billion dollars and you can't pay it back. Is there a problem?
3:18 Graham Stephan? How do they give you a billion dollars?
3:21 Speaker 01 Real estate.
3:22 Jack Selby? So, but if you, if you say that you owe me a billion dollars, that's your problem. You know, what if the bank sees that? You're saying that or they like, you know, they'd be like, okay, well, maybe we should stop lending this guy money. Is that just the reality of the situation? And everyone at that level knows that if you default, it's not your problem, but it's the banks?
3:43 Speaker 01 Well, you have to learn. It's a process you learn. You know, like I, the reason I wrote Rich Dad, Poor Dad is I don't teach us anything about money. And so when I was a kid, I was this rich dad taught me playing Monopoly. And he says, one of the first persons on your team is your banker. So this is in Hawaii, Waikiki. And I would go with him, I'm a kid, you know, going. And he'd be talking to his banker. So his banker understood his strategies, how he was doing things, never lied to him. Hit his financials. The average American doesn't have financials. If you don't have financials, you know, income statement, balance sheet, statement of cash flow, which is what I wrote about Rich Dad, Poor Dad.
4:28 Speaker 01 Bank won't lend you any money. Give you a credit card. So you've got to play the game or speak the language of a banker. So as a young man, I sat there listening to Rich Dad talk to his banker. And then I go, holy mackerel. And his job was going to stretch from me and I said, look, I just need another million. I said, a million. And my old man, poor dad, you know, he go, you can't even get a credit card. But you have to have a banker on your team. It's very, you know, business is a team sport. My accountant, my attorney, my banker, they're on my team.
5:08 Jack Selby? Why would you say your advice is so controversial? Why do people see it as something way out of the norm?
5:15 Speaker 01 And well, when I wrote Rich Dad, Poor Dad, it came out in ninety seven. I created my cash flow board game. And nobody would buy it. So being an entrepreneur, I said, I better do something pretty quickly here. So I wrote Rich Dad, Poor Dad in ninety seven. And of course, they all turned me down. So you know what you're talking about, I said, said your house is not an asset. Oh, I caught hell for that one. And I said savers are losers. And the rich don't work for money. So those three statements in Rich Dad, Poor Dad. I'm house catching hell from everywhere from that. I remember I was living not too far from here.
5:59 Speaker 01 And I'm on the first time I'm on local TV. And I said, your house is not an asset. I got attacked by a bunch of these older women, should I say. Our house is an asset. Yours may not be. But if you read Rich Dad, Poor Dad, assets are defined by cash flow. If cash is flowing into you, it's an asset. If cash is flowing out, it's a liability. It's called financial literacy. Can you read numbers? Can you speak the language of money? But most of no financial education so that these older women listening. How dare you say that? And there are friends of mine.
6:44 Speaker 01 How dare you say that house is not an asset? I said, man, how much does this cost you a month? I don't care what you say. It's so ingrained, you have to buy a house. Look at most guys, you know, the young sports stars. They make, you know, get a million dollar bonus. What do they buy first? The house. You know, it's so programmed into you.
7:07 Graham Stephan? So how do you simply determine then what is good debt and what is bad debt?
7:11 Speaker 01 Debt that makes you rich and debt that makes you poor.
7:15 Graham Stephan? Is there an interest rate, though, that you wouldn't pay? Like, if they offer you debt at 20%, would that just be too much? You've taken debt at 20%?
7:24 Speaker 01 It depends.
7:26 Graham Stephan? Yeah.
7:27 Speaker 01 Depends on how tough situation you're in. It's a game. I played Monopoly. Play Monopoly. Four greenhouses, 1031, red hotel. Most people never get past the first house. They only have no houses. To get to the second house, you get, you know, one house, you get $10. Second house, you get $20. Third house, you get $30, $40. Fourth house, $40. Hotel, $60. Well, it's a quantum leap from four houses to that hotel. I own hotels in town. I just play Monopoly. It's not that hard to do.
8:05 Graham Stephan? What do you think is the biggest misconception people have about you?
8:08 Speaker 01 I'm a nice guy.
8:10 Graham Stephan? No. They think you're a nice guy and you're not?
8:12 Speaker 01 I'm an [bleep] with me.
8:14 Graham Stephan? Really?
8:15 Speaker 01 Oh, God. I'm a US Marine. Well, you cross me, I [bleep] on you. Suit.
8:22 Graham Stephan? Well, you've been nothing but a nice person to us.
8:24 Speaker 01 Well, because you guys are nice guys too, you know, but boy, I want you, you know, this respect. You guys are very respectful. You understand this, you're subject. You're successful at what you do. I was, I'm glad you brought that up because it's the last two Uber rides I had. I almost got into a fistfight with the driver.
8:44 Graham Stephan? Why?
8:47 Speaker 01 They're lazy.
8:49 Speaker 01 This one Uber guy picks me up. He goes, hey, you write that book? I said, yeah. I said, no, no, no. He goes, did you read it? He goes, nah, I don't have time. Tell me what I should do.
8:59 Graham Stephan? He said that?
9:01 Speaker 01 He said, do you think I just get rich? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I said, look, I study all the time. Do you study? He goes, no, I'm busy working. So you're a poor working class guy.
9:13 Graham Stephan? You should have him buy your audio book, though. They could listen to it in the car.
9:15 Jack Selby? Yeah, you could have made a few dollars if you just upsold them your book right then and there.
9:19 Speaker 01 I don't have time for lazy people.
9:21 Graham Stephan? I'm curious.
9:22 Speaker 01 I don't have time for lazy people. It's easier to be lazy than productive.
9:27 Jack Selby? There's a, okay, there's a couple interesting things there. But I do want to lean into the idea that a lot of wealthy people share that in the beginning, you need to do a lot and think a little bit less. And then, once you start making a lot of money and you have a lot of people under you or you're a high level operator, then you need to think more and do less. And more money is made from your decisions instead of the actual work that you're putting in. Do you think in the beginning that you should just continue and work hard? When do you start like really thinking about these things?
9:59 Speaker 01 The thing that happened for me was I went to military school.
10:04 Speaker 01 I got, I fucked up at high school twice because I can't write. Imagine that. I'm an international bestselling writer. But it wasn't that I couldn't write. The teachers didn't like what I was writing. Bastards. So I said, this is, I said, this school is a waste of time for me. So I want to be rich and you guys are poor. Why would I want to learn from poor people? My school teacher just gave me an F for that.
10:29 Speaker 01 So
10:31 Speaker 01 I got nominations to Naval Academy, US Merchant Marine Academy. I took Merchant Marine Academy. My study was oil.
10:40 Speaker 01 You know how much money I made from oil?
10:43 Graham Stephan? Not much.
10:44 Speaker 01 Lots. It's cash flow. I drill an oil well. Oil well will produce for 40 years. So I'll invest, let's say, $2 million in a partnership to drill for oil someplace in North Dakota or, you know, Texas. And that oil well pumps oil for 20 to 30 years and I pay no taxes. That's a lot better than paying a stupid stock market. My point here is this, there's a million ways you can get rich as young guys like you find the way that works for you. You know, like Warren Buffett. I could never follow that guy. I personally don't like what Warren Buffett
11:26 Speaker 01 says, but he's guts, he's successful at it. But I don't play the stock market. It's a waste of time for me. So I drill for oil. And I get that. And then I buy apartment houses with my money from my oil. And I get, and the apartment houses throw cash flow every single month. And I have apartment houses because I use 100% debt to finance the apartment houses so that I pay no taxes. It's only a game. It's sheer monopoly than a buy a hotel.
11:58 Graham Stephan? Do you think the average person should be investing in stocks? Or who do you think should be investing in stocks?
12:04 Speaker 01 The best advice for the average person is don't be average. Get your ass.
12:09 Speaker 01 The stock market and the 401k is set up for losers. You want to be a loser, get a 401k.
12:15 Graham Stephan? Why do you not want to invest in stocks? Is that because of tax implications?
12:20 Speaker 01 Control. I'm an entrepreneur, not a fricking loser. I controlled the oil well. I controlled the apartment houses. I controlled the hotels.
12:33 Graham Stephan? But isn't some of that dictated also by the city and the governance?
12:36 Speaker 01 A little bit. Yeah, sure. You gotta play the game. The point here is most people are losers because they're lazy. It's, America's too easy.
12:47 Graham Stephan? Wouldn't you think it made the switch that people have become lazier over time?
12:53 Speaker 01 Good economy, debt. There's 200 million Americans on some kind of government welfare right now. That's almost half, over half, half the population. And they're all on, all counting on what they call that stuff. Social, social security. It's bankrupt. America's bankrupt. America loses 2 trillion a year. So we collect, let's say, 5 trillion in taxes, but we spend 7 trillion in expenses. We spend more on debt than we do on, on weapons. And we're fighting a war in the Middle East.
13:37 Speaker 01 And we're fighting that place in Ukraine. We're going bust. We're bankrupt. So that's why I said, I don't, I don't save this. I always carry this around. Here's $10. And here's a 1964 coin. Which one do you want? This is 50 cents? This is $10. The average American goes for the 10 bucks. This is worth more. Cause this is real money. This is fake. They go for fake money all day long. It's really, really sad. This in 10 years will be worth 20 of that, you know what I mean?
14:18 Graham Stephan? Yeah.
14:19 Speaker 01 Because they keep printing money. Why don't our schools teach us that? Because our school teachers are Marxists. They're Marxist. And not bad people, they're just Marxist. I'm a capitalist. Okay, big difference.
14:35 Graham Stephan? You would do great if you went on the street and you asked people, would you want $10 here? Or this 50 cent piece? And to see what people say.
14:42 Speaker 01 I do it all the time.
14:43 Graham Stephan? They don't realize that that's silver.
14:46 Speaker 01 I do, they don't know the difference.
14:48 Graham Stephan? How often do people take the silver?
14:50 Speaker 01 None. This is worth more.
14:55 Speaker 00 This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome, that's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web. Like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50 page restoration blog. Or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online make sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up required. Compatibility and availability varies, 18 plus.
15:22 Jack Selby? You say that they don't teach you this in school. I'm curious, why is this not a part of the curriculum? People always speculate, they're keeping you poor. They want you to stay poor. They don't want you to understand investing, buying assets instead of buying liabilities. Who are these people that don't want you to become wealthy? Do you think they exist?
15:41 Speaker 01 I wrote a book called The Capitalist Manifesto. One of the first books, I went to military school, it was March Marine Academy. Our first book we had to read was The Communist Manifesto. I recommend everybody read The Communist Manifesto. And you'll find out that most of your friends are communists. They believe in paying income tax and a whole bunch of other things. So I went to military school and read The Communist Manifesto. And I was curious, so that was 18 years old. Then I found out in 1930, Columbia University, that communist organization invited Marxist
16:20 Speaker 01 teachers from the Frankfurt School in Germany to come to Columbia's Teachers College to teach teachers, American teachers, Marxism. So our school system is Marxist. If you can understand that, I mean, what they told you to pay taxes.
16:41 Speaker 01 You know what Marxist taxation is essential for the spread of communism?
16:49 Speaker 01 They also said, most school teachers are labor union people. What Marx said was, workers of the world unite. When I read The Communist Manifesto, it's only a small book. I went, my family's communist. They're good people, don't get me wrong, you know, you see them on the street, well, there's communists over there. But they pay taxes. I don't pay taxes.
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18:39 Graham Stephan? How would the government run, though, if they were not collecting taxes? Because there would have to be money coming from somewhere to pay for things like roads and city streetlights and things like this.
18:50 Speaker 01 Not my problem. No, I mean, they'll figure it out. I mean, communists, they just extract your money from the top down. You know, Russia runs, they're communists. The point is, people don't know they're educated by communists. I was at Arizona State University, it was the fourth largest schools in America. I was on stage with a guy named Charlie Kirk. They came after us because we were teaching capitalism.
19:20 Speaker 01 So if you understand that, I would say 80% of all school teachers are at the core Marxist, they just don't know it. They pay tax. They belong to the teacher's union. What's the biggest union in America? The NEA, National Education Association, National Extortion Association. Our test scores are going down, teacher's salary is going up.
19:46 Graham Stephan? If the average person knows nothing about money, if you could go in and rewrite the school's curriculum to teach financial literacy and how to invest, what are the top two?
19:56 Speaker 01 I already did that. It's called Rich Dead, Poor Dead.
19:58 Graham Stephan? What would you say?
19:59 Speaker 01 I already did that.
20:00 Graham Stephan? I agree. I read.
20:01 Speaker 01 And that's why that lazy son of a Uber driver says, yeah, I got your book. I don't have time to read it. The problem is they're lazy. They're hardworking, poor people. There's nothing wrong with being a hardworking, poor person. You guys had that guy on, I was talking to him about. He was, he hung out with Richard Branson on Necker Island and all this. He says there's different kinds of poor and different kinds of rich. That was a great program you guys had. I sat there listening, so I went, so he says you can be all, you can be poor, but you can be ultra poor also. And you can be rich, and you can be ultra rich. And this guy was, what was his name? He was.
20:43 Graham Stephan? Sahil Bloom. He was talking about the optimal rich-to-be, because if you get ultra-rich, you have to question, are people around you because of what you have? But if you're rich, you have access to things without being over the top.
20:57 Speaker 01 Yeah. He was very good. Yeah. A great, great program you guys had. So I listened to that. I learned a lot of, and that's, it's kind of on your show, is I probably found what you guys are about here. So you guys are into educating and illumination, basically, putting the light on the subject. But when he says there's, you know, some people, they get so rich, it ruins their lives. I don't have that problem. I like, because getting rich is a game to me. That's all it is.
21:26 Graham Stephan? So where do people go wrong, where they get rich and it ruins their life? What makes you different and how have you gone about that?
21:32 Speaker 01 I think they sell their soul.
21:35 Speaker 01 Well, I have a soul, there's a price on it.
21:39 Speaker 01 And I just don't do that.
21:41 Jack Selby? You've said savers are losers. That's one of my favorite quotes of yours. I'm curious, when you say savers are losers, what is the average person? The person that doesn't have a lot of extra money at the end of the month supposed to do then?
21:57 Speaker 01 Save real. Silver today is forty, forty-five bucks.
22:05 Jack Selby? Yeah.
22:07 Speaker 01 Gold is thirty-five hundred. I started saving this when it was a dollar. I have boxes of silver and I have boxes of gold. I own gold mines. I took, I've taken two gold mines public, one on Toronto Stock Exchange, one on New York Stock Exchange. I believe in sound money.
22:30 Speaker 01 I don't work for this fake garbage, but that's what schools teach you to do. This is not money. This is called toilet paper. And they can print as much as they like of it. And it's killing us right now. It's killing this country. So I was just talking to you, I was in Zimbabwe last week. I was in Zimbabwe in two thousand two. You know, the ones, guys may have seen him was, here's one hundred trillion Zimbabwe dollars. Everybody was laughing at Zimbabwe. So I was in Zimbabwe in two thousand two. I'm a hunter. I'm a politically incorrect hunter. So I'm out there in Zimbabwe and looking at this stuff.
23:13 Speaker 01 And the next year that I went back again, the Zim dollar collapsed. And I'm in a truck, a hunting truck. And these truckload full of black guys with AK-47s. They're called war vets. Why they call them that, I don't know. They came up there, just went like this. All we can do is this, when the currency collapses, the economy collapsed.
23:43 Speaker 01 So that's why I say to Americans, America is doing exactly the same thing Zimbabwe's doing now. We print money to pay our bills. There's no difference between a ZIM dollar and a US dollar. So I warn people all the time, don't save this. Save silver, Bitcoin, Ethereum. Go for something that's not printed by the US government. Like I said, I don't have oil stocks, but I own oil wells. And every month, they pump oil. Guess what? They use it every month. Every month, they send me a check. And because I'm in a vital
24:25 Speaker 01 industry, oil, I pay no tax. You don't have to, you know, my friends all live, my friends live in Vegas or Puerto Rico. I said, if you knew your tax law, you wouldn't have to live in Puerto Rico or Vegas. Because the tax laws are written for capitalists. If you're not a capitalist, you pay tax.
24:46 Graham Stephan? Do you invest in anything that you can't get depreciation on? Because I know with oil, you could depreciate it. Real estate, you could depreciate it. How do you decide where to allocate your money? And at what point do you buy something like Bitcoin or gold or silver?
25:01 Speaker 01 I'm always, I'm always moving money. My problem is too much money. If you just buy assets, rich don't work for money, but the rich work for assets. So my first property, I was, it was 1974, getting out of the Marine Corps. I was a pilot. All my friends wanted to become pilots for the pension. Guess what happened to all their pensions? Gone. They took all the pensions of the pilots. Bunch of losers. But I'm not going to fall into that trap. This is 74. So I just, at that point, I took real estate courses, stock
25:43 Speaker 01 courses, technical trading. I go to seminars. And you know what? I met these little seminars and goofy things like that around on the Lulu. I meet, I meet guys like you. That's where I met my friends. There were people that were actually interested in learning about money. And we became really good friends. And my best friend and I became billionaires.
26:08 Speaker 01 I met him at a seminar, you know, so let's, let's, let's kick some ass.
26:13 Speaker 01 But if you hang out with losers and poor people, that's your choice. And they're probably good people, him or wrong, you know? Like that Uber driver, in his head, I'm quite sure he has a tape or a cassette playing, "I'm a good working, hardworking, poor man." Unless he changes that tape, he's a hardworking, poor man. I said, "Have you read my book?" He's, "No, I don't have time." But he has time to drive an Uber. God bless him. I like Uber. You know, saves me from DWI chargers and all that stuff. It's a great service, it's fantastic. But if a person doesn't change the tape up here. So that's why you read books and study and go to seminars and YouTube and what you guys are doing, listen in.
26:58 Graham Stephan? So at this point, where do you make most of your income from?
27:01 Speaker 01 Just property and oil.
27:04 Speaker 01 And I make a lot of money off of, uh...
27:08 Speaker 01 I've been buying gold since I was a, not a kid, but you know, basically. So I just paid for my house. They wanted four and a half million for it. So I just took out some gold from my safe. Paid for it. The gold only cost me 450,000. The house was 4.5 million. But because I save gold coins. So I only paid 450 for the gold. But over the years, it went to 4.5. So I paid for that. And then I only hang out with friends who are rich. I mean, I, I mean, I'm selective of them.
27:50 Graham Stephan? Yeah.
27:51 Speaker 01 But we just get along, we're always doing deals together.
27:55 Speaker 01 So my other friend, Kenny McElroy, is one of the smartest real estate guys I know. You know, he's doing, uh...
28:03 Speaker 01 Billboards now. I said, Kenny, what the heck you doing in billboards? He says, bonus depreciation. So that means you put a hundred thousand to a billboard.
28:14 Graham Stephan? Right.
28:14 Speaker 01 You might get five billion, five hundred thousand depreciation. So by hanging out with smart guys, I get richer. And he and I, and Ken and I are always studying together. We get together on a regular basis and we study. So when I was with those two Uber drivers, I mean, they just pissed me off the other day. Well, I don't have time, man. Tell me what, tell me, tell me what I should do, you know?
28:39 Graham Stephan? What percentage of people would you say have that mindset that they just don't have time?
28:44 Speaker 01 Lazy people.
28:45 Graham Stephan? What percentage of the US?
28:47 Speaker 01 Probably ninety nine, ninety five percent.
28:49 Graham Stephan? And what separates them from the five percent?
28:52 Speaker 01 That guy, who was that guy?
28:53 Graham Stephan? Sahil Bloom.
28:55 Speaker 01 Everybody should listen to that.
28:56 Graham Stephan? Yeah, we have a link to that episode down below. Our episode was Sahil. Highly right. We just posted it. So it's a brand new episode. So chances are you probably haven't seen it yet. So go and see it.
29:04 Speaker 01 It's fantastic.
29:05 Graham Stephan? Thank you.
29:06 Speaker 01 Because it's only a choice. Well, how much, people say, well, how much is enough? I said, I don't think you get it. I go, what do you mean? See, they think money is about the dollar amount. To me, it's the game. I play Monopoly. Four greenhouses, red hotel, oil wells. Is this a game to me? It's not serious.
29:34 Graham Stephan? What's your best investment that you've ever made?
29:37 Speaker 01 I wrote a book. Sold forty five million copies of it. That's the biggest asset I've ever made.
29:45 Graham Stephan? How much did you make from the book?
29:47 Speaker 01 I don't know. I don't, I have accountants do that shit for me. I'm always moving money. I'm always moving my money into the next thing, next thing. So you can ask my friends, you know, like Kenny McElroy, he says, hey, when's that, when's that billboard deal coming, coming together? Good, good, good. Oh, friend, man. When's, when's this property coming together? Good, good, good, good. I invest with other entrepreneurs. I don't invest on Wall Street.
30:18 Graham Stephan? Have you ever lost money with an investment? And what's been your worst investment?
30:23 Speaker 01 My own, my own company.
30:26 Speaker 01 But losing is part of winning. I think that's the thing that gets most people. Because most frickin' school teachers tell you, don't make mistakes. The reason school teachers are poor is you don't learn unless you make mistakes. You know, I flew for the US Marine Corps. And as we, as we got ready to fly into Vietnam, I was in Camp Pendleton, getting ready to go, I flew the gunship. Every day, we had to practice crashing, three to five times a day. We practiced crashing. So when it, because the odds are, you're gonna crash. So I went down three times in Vietnam.
31:07 Speaker 01 But every time the engine quit, or I got, you know, it's automatic. There's a book called The Big Print by Lawrence Lepard. Everybody should read The Big Print. It talks about traditional education versus military education. I went to military school. First one, first word we learn at military school? Mission. What's your mission? So he talks about, Lepard talks about in military school, you're always preparing for something to go wrong. That is very, very true.
31:48 Speaker 01 Whereas in traditional school, oh, everything's, you know, sunshine and roses. In a perfect world, this will happen. But you cannot handle it. Like that first time I lost my engine. I tell you, it's terrifying. We're flying a strike into Vietnam. I think it's got 18 rockets on it, machine crew, boxes of ammo. We're all strapped in, we got leather, we got, you know, vests, we're heavier. That engine quit. The reason pilots die is they pull back. What we're trained to do as Marine Corps pilots. When that engine quits, you push forward.
32:32 Speaker 01 They call out, look, you look at the eyes of death. So I was only about 1,500 feet. When that engine quit, like.
32:43 Speaker 01 Boom, nose forward, cut power.
32:47 Speaker 01 The team was already prepared. Rockets were being kicked out, canisters of ammunition kicked out, that vest going off and all this, boom into the water. Wow. I went over, I went over to Vietnam with 16 men. Lieutenant Kiyosaki, I came back with 16 men. All alive, all in one piece. Because we prepare for bad times.
33:11 Graham Stephan? Although really quick, I just want to say that when it comes to business, they say that you could have better, cheaper, or faster, but you could only pick two.
33:19 Jack Selby? Well, what if you could have all three at the same time? And that's exactly what Cohere, Thomson Reuters, and Specialized Bikes have since they upgraded to the next generation of the cloud, Oracle Cloud Infrastructure, or OCI.
33:28 Graham Stephan? OCI is the blazing fast platform for your infrastructure, database, application development, and AI needs, where you could run any workload in a high availability, consistently high-performance environment, and spend less than you would with other clouds. How is it faster? Well, OCI's block storage gives you more operations per second. How is it cheaper? Well, OCI costs 50% less for compute, 70% less for storage, and 80% less for networking. And when it comes to better, OCI customers report consistently lower latency and higher bandwidth than other clouds. This is the cloud built for AI and all of your biggest workloads.
34:04 Jack Selby? And right now, with zero commitment, you can try OCI for free at oracle.com/iced. Guys, that is oracle.com/iced. There's also a link down below in the description. Completely free to try it out with zero commitment. Thank you so much to Oracle for sponsoring this episode.
34:17 Graham Stephan? And really quick here, real talk, short-form content has been one of the biggest drivers of growth for the Iced Coffee Hour. We'll take our best moments and then clip them up for platforms like TikTok, Instagram, YouTube, and more. But let's be honest, takes a lot of time to do it correctly. That's why tools like our sponsor Opus Clip are a game changer.
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35:10 Graham Stephan? What is the most important failure you've experienced?
35:14 Speaker 01 I was court martialed twice.
35:17 Speaker 01 And you ever see that movie A Few Good Men with Nicholson?
35:20 Graham Stephan? It's been a long time.
35:22 Speaker 01 Yeah. He's Colonel Jessup because you can't handle the truth. So what I was doing, for some reason, I like pretty women, you know? I just find them very attractive. I always got in trouble with my helicopter and pretty women.
35:41 Speaker 01 So I was in Hawaii, stationed at Kanaioi Marine Corps Air Station. I go into Waikiki, I had shaved, you know? And back then, everybody had long hair. So they knew you were a Marine right away and they spit on you, you know? I came back from Vietnam, I got hit with rotten eggs and spit on. Called names, terrible coming back as a Marine, as a serviceman.
36:07 Speaker 01 And so we couldn't pick up any women. So I said, well, I've got this thing called a helicopter. So I talked to these young women, I said, want to go for a helicopter ride? To a private island? They go, some of them don't see your hair anymore, you know? So I used to fly from Kanaioi Air Station to the Air Force Base next door. I was pick up the ladies and we'd fly to this private island. Loaded with beer.
36:40 Speaker 01 Drinking.
36:43 Speaker 01 We'd be partying, going for the Mile High Club, everything.
36:49 Speaker 01 And so I'm having the best time. And so everybody hears about my little ventures I'm doing. So my commanding officer says, can I go with you? Sure, sir. Yeah, he's a Colonel, I'm a Lieutenant. And he goes, sure. So we go, we're partying away on this island, drunk as skunks and all this stuff. And one day I come taxiing back in to Oahu, the main island. And I shut my engine off and MPs are out. They open the door of my helicopter, first thing that falls out is beer cans. So that's federal offense right there. And I fell out. I had no flight suit on.
37:33 Speaker 01 I was in swimming trunks and rubber slippers. And in the back, they find cans of beer, diving gear, everything illegal. And the mistake I made was I started to lie. And so they caught me. They put me under house arrest. I had a nice condo in Waikiki. They put this Captain Abrams, nice Jewish attorney prosecutor on my butt. Oh, he was good. I thought I was good. I'm trying to cover my, it was exactly like A Few Good Men. They took the fuel logs. And so they were checking my fuel logs and all this stuff. And I was lying through my teeth.
38:16 Speaker 01 And finally, I was like, I couldn't stand it anymore. I was, he caught everything I did. This Abrams, great attorney. I mean, I respect him a lot. So I'm sitting in the room and he goes, so Lieutenant, on this day, did you do this? Sir, I'm going to tell you the truth, the whole truth, other but the truth. I told him about every stupid thing I ever did. On this day, I flew women here. On this date, I did this here. This day, we did this here. At the end of it, I think I lost 30 pounds.
38:56 Speaker 01 Because I was just so upset, you know, lying, tracking me down and all this stuff. I sat there like this and on the, on the stand. I looked up at Captain Abrams and I said, how many years, sir? And he smiled at me and says, you're free.
39:18 Speaker 05 Hmm.
39:19 Speaker 01 I said, what?
39:21 Speaker 00 This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome, that's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration block, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online make sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up required. Compatibility and availability varies 18 plus.
39:47 Speaker 01 Let's get the out of here.
39:51 Speaker 01 Honorable discharge. Thank you, Marine. I said, what?
39:59 Speaker 01 He looked at me and he says, son, I'll tell you something. We all up.
40:06 Speaker 01 We all mistake, we all make mistakes. Just don't lie.
40:11 Speaker 01 Because when you lie about your mistakes, you become a liar. That's the worst thing you can do. It was one of the best lessons I ever had. So to this day, I have tremendous respect for the US Marine Corps. Because they pounded me, oh, they pounded me. And this Captain Abrams, man, he was one smart dude. I don't know how he caught all my man, I was cheating every, I was a top, that was a top secret officer. So I have a top secret files and all that. He tracked me down. And so when I saw if you were good man with Nicholson and so Joseph Nicholson goes, you can't handle the truth. I said, that was it.
40:54 Graham Stephan? How did that change your mindset afterwards?
40:56 Speaker 01 Don't lie. You up, you up. God designed us to make mistakes.
41:04 Speaker 01 The way a baby learns to walk is to fall down. The way you learn to ride a bike is to fall down.
41:11 Speaker 01 We make mistakes. So God does, I'm not really religious, I'm not preaching here. The way humans were designed to learn is by making mistakes. So I'm an entrepreneur. I made a lot of mistakes. But that's why I'm rich today. And those Uber drivers didn't want to go through that process. You know, I crashed three times of a broken back because of it. But we practice making mistakes.
41:37 Speaker 01 And I think our academic system is screwed up because most school teachers sing from the Bible of don't make mistakes because mistakes make you stupid. The facts are, humans are designed to make mistakes and that's how we learn.
41:55 Jack Selby? How has only ever being honest and telling the truth positively affected your life? We had Kevin O'Leary on this podcast a while ago. I'm sure you probably know who he is. He would say-
42:06 Speaker 01 He's a smart dude, boy.
42:08 Jack Selby? He is a smart guy and, and he was saying the exact same thing that you're saying right now, which is one lie can destroy your life.
42:16 Speaker 01 Yeah, exactly.
42:17 Jack Selby? One lie. And so he has made a pledge to only ever be honest. And that's part of why he is the way that he is. He's known as Mr. Wonderful because he's so blunt and cut and dry and honest.
42:28 Speaker 01 Yep.
42:28 Jack Selby? He, he only says the truth and, and he credits that towards his, I would say, understanding that you should only ever be honest and never lie.
42:37 Speaker 01 Yeah, we all make mistakes. You know, that's how I lost so many companies. We make mistakes, but don't lie about it. So I've paid my bills, you know, I've lost several million dollars. I paid it off.
42:53 Jack Selby? Hmm.
42:55 Speaker 01 But that's why I'm rich today. But those Uber drivers didn't want to go through that process. They want, what's a quick fix? I said, buy Bitcoin. So I can't afford it. It's got a problem, you know? Bitcoin's brilliant, by the way, I think it's brilliant beneath our Ethereum.
43:12 Jack Selby? Ethereum.
43:13 Speaker 01 Fantastic. You don't have to be that smart and you get rich.
43:16 Jack Selby? Yeah. A lot of people compare real estate with Bitcoin. They say Bitcoin is like a digital real estate in a sense that you're buying something that's fixed. What is your thought on-
43:26 Speaker 01 Bullshit.
43:26 Jack Selby? What is your thought on real estate today?
43:28 Speaker 01 Real estate's a tough game.
43:30 Graham Stephan? Do you think that prices for real estate are elevated to a point where it just no longer makes sense to buy?
43:36 Speaker 01 It doesn't make any difference to me. If it's too expensive, you don't buy it.
43:41 Graham Stephan? Yeah.
43:42 Speaker 01 I love crashes. When the markets crash, that's when I get rich. Everything goes on sale. So people have all wanted, you know, today, today, as this is September 2025. The S and P is at all time highs. I'd be out because I want to go one more direction down.
44:05 Graham Stephan? Do you expect a crash in the near future? And how do you get rich during a crash?
44:10 Speaker 01 Well, that's what I was talking about Zimbabwe when I was there. When I, when I saw that crashes and this is great. The sad thing what happened in Zimbabwe was I was talking to this young entrepreneur about your age. He lost his nerve. I could tell he was smart. He had that. I said, you live in one of the richest Zimbabwe is one of the richest countries. It's a gold country. And there's my gold mines here and all this. I'll be out, I'll be out like a cheap suit. He lost his nerve. I've seen it happen. When a pilot loses their nerve, we take them off the line. They can't handle, they just can't handle it. I mean, people is tough.
44:54 Speaker 01 You know, when I was flying in, climbing, flying into combat, we just put rock and roll music on to the, because we had to jack ourselves up. When you see your friends go down and you never see them again. It's just takes your heart out. You know, your friends don't come back to the carrier. Kind of cry. But the next day, British Trenton, going back at it again. That's what I loved about the military.
45:26 Speaker 01 It was mission first. You didn't count. So I meet young men, especially though, you know, where's your testicles? Get up there and fight hard.
45:40 Speaker 01 They don't do that to me, you know. My friends who are now like generals and things like this, they can't find men. So Marine Corps, I'm gonna tough time finding men.
45:53 Graham Stephan? So on the topic of a possible incoming crash, do you expect some sort of a stock market crash? And how can you get rich during the crash?
46:02 Speaker 01 Everything goes on sale.
46:05 Speaker 01 See, I'm, I don't save dollars. I only serve gold and silver and Bitcoin and Ethereum. I don't save this stuff. So in a crash, gold, silver and all that, what they do is they print more money. When they print more money, those go up in value. So my gold goes up, silver goes up, Ethereum goes up, Bitcoin goes up. So you gotta know in a crash, this goes up, crash, this goes down. It's the same as flying an aircraft, you know? So I like crashes. The reason I'm in Phoenix, Arizona is in 2008 when it crashed here. The best real estate on earth went on sale.
46:48 Speaker 01 And I bought, I bought so much, it was incredible. The banks were happy to see you.
46:55 Graham Stephan? There, there is this belief now, though, that we're not going to see a crash anymore. And that if we see the markets drop, the Fed can come in and just print more money and bail us out.
47:04 Speaker 01 That's right.
47:05 Graham Stephan? How does that change your investing philosophy?
47:07 Speaker 01 Because when you print money, the rich get richer and the poor and middle class get poorer.
47:13 Speaker 01 The reason we have homelessness today is because we have a Federal Reserve Bank. It's a criminal organization. Anything that's a central bank is Marxist. So the Fed is Marxist, if you understand that. So Thomas Jefferson said, if we allow somebody to take over our money, which the Fed did, people wake up homeless in their own lands. Look at homelessness, it's exploding. People can't afford homes. Your age is having tougher, tougher time because prices are so high. When you print fake money, which this stuff is, you make life harder on people. But guys like me who have assets, you print this.
47:58 Speaker 01 This goes up. But if you print this, the price of coffee also goes up. So inflation is going to wipe out my generation. The boomers don't have enough money to get through inflation. They're going to be the boomers are going to be homeless all over the place.
48:18 Graham Stephan? What about the argument that AI is going to help bring down the cost of a lot of items? And that we might not see as much inflation over time because we could start doing things for a long time.
48:28 Speaker 01 AI is going to cause unemployment. So as what happened was industrial age took out the manual worker, you know, like the the guy worked with his hands. AI is going to take out the doctors and lawyers. I don't need a lawyer anymore. AI does it for me. So you're going to so this can be good and bad to it. And but I don't really give a if you understand money. That the way the Fed operates, which is a Marxist organization. They're going to print. Like I said, I was in Zimbabwe. They printed to solve their problems and they kept printing and it collapsed.
49:12 Speaker 01 I went to watch how they they couldn't trade because this was the Zim dollar was worthless. So I'm in Harare, not Zimbabwe, Zimbabwe. And then there are things called United Nations. And in the back of this garage, all these people were coming together. It was like a big swap meet because the money was no good. They're saying, I got this for sale here. I'll trade you my watch. Well, I got some I got some tomatoes for sale here. And they went to a barter economy that fast. So when I when I tell you guys I was in Zimbabwe, everybody goes, where is Zimbabwe?
49:53 Speaker 01 But America is following Zimbabwe right now, so they must prepare for it. What Zimbabwe did was they printed money to pay their bills. We print two trillion a year. That's what Trump is trying to stop. But there's people will take him out for that.
50:13 Graham Stephan? Yeah. Do you think for the average person, given what you've just said, should buy or rent a house?
50:19 Speaker 01 It's an expense to me, that's all it is. If you don't, the problem is if you don't make enough money. Like that Uber drivers, those two of them, ran in a row. I don't have time to read your book, so thank you, bye.
50:31 Graham Stephan? But if the average person needs to live somewhere and they say they're going to print more money, there is the belief that real estate as a result of that is probably going to be worth more.
50:39 Speaker 01 Don't ask what if questions. Look, I own 1,500 rental properties. I'll just go sleep in one of them. How many guys do you own?
50:51 Graham Stephan? Seven.
50:52 Speaker 01 Seven. So just keep buying. No, it's a serious. Thomas Jefferson said, if a central bank takes over, which the Fed is, people wake up homeless in their own lands. And that's what's happening today. I look at the people who are homeless. Now you can say, well, they're on drugs or mentally deranged and all this stuff, which is probably true. But it's getting harder, but you print money, the rich get richer. And the poor and middle class get poorer. So if you own a house and you print money, you feel, oh, my, my price of my house went up.
51:32 Speaker 01 But the average person, so the price of chicken and eggs and yogurt goes up. And inflation wipes them out. So mark my words. I'm a boom, I'm the first of the boomers. We're going to get wiped out via inflation. Your mommy and daddy may be on the street. Because inflation is going to wipe out the social security.
51:55 Graham Stephan? When's the last time that you were wrong about a prediction that you had made?
51:59 Speaker 01 Ever.
52:01 Graham Stephan? Never wrong.
52:02 Speaker 01 As long as they're printing money, you can predict what's going to happen. It's happened throughout time. The Romans did it, the Chinese did it, Hitler did it. They all do it.
52:14 Graham Stephan? What are your price targets for something like Bitcoin, gold, silver?
52:19 Speaker 01 I have no price target. I have an entry. And I don't sell. So like right now, to me, the biggest bargain is silver.
52:30 Speaker 01 So silver's about forty, fifty bucks. And Ethereum, I think, is very good right now. I stopped buying Bitcoin.
52:38 Graham Stephan? Why?
52:39 Speaker 01 Too high.
52:40 Graham Stephan? I've seen so many predictions that Bitcoin's going to hit a million, five million.
52:48 Graham Stephan? So, so if it's too high, why not sell?
52:51 Speaker 01 I don't need the money. I don't need money. I get fifteen hundred rental properties. I own oil wells. Money keeps pouring in. I gotta keep moving my money around. I invest in assets. Let me give you the three rules of rich dad, poor dad. The rich don't work for money. The rich work to acquire assets. And an asset is something that puts money in your pocket, whether you work or not. Some of my little oil wells, you know. I'm investing in billboards now. And the billboards are going to be outside Las Vegas, right? And they pay you, every month they pay you money for those billboards. And I get bonus depreciation.
53:37 Speaker 01 So I'm always moving my money.
53:40 Graham Stephan? What's the ROI of a billboard? I'm always, what's the ROI?
53:44 Speaker 01 I have no idea right now. It's just being put together now.
53:47 Graham Stephan? Yeah.
53:48 Speaker 01 It's bonus depreciation. So I put a million dollars in. I get five million depreciation. That means I don't pay tax.
53:56 Graham Stephan? What would you say is the worst financial advice you've ever heard?
54:01 Speaker 01 Warren Buffett.
54:04 Speaker 01 He speaks for average people. He's a smart man. I listen to him, I go.
54:09 Graham Stephan? So we actually have a video I'd love for you to react to.
54:13 Speaker 01 Warren Buffett speaks for the average man. And my saying to you guys is, don't be average. You want to be the best at what you can do.
54:22 Graham Stephan? I want to get your thoughts on what Warren Buffett said on leverage. This is what he said.
54:27 Speaker 06 They risked what they did have and did need. And that's foolish. That is just plain foolish. I don't make any research on your IQ is. If you, if you risk something that is important to you for something that is unimportant to you, it just does not make any sense. I don't care whether the odds are 100 to one that you succeed or 1,000 to one to succeed. If you hand me a [BLEEP] with a thousand chambers, a million chambers in it, and there's a bullet in one chamber and you said, put it up your temple, how much do you want to be paid to pull it once?
54:55 Graham Stephan? So that's on leverage. That's why take a risk in anything if you don't need the extra money.
55:02 Speaker 01 What was he talking about? He has the biggest leverage of all. He has an insurance company. That's massive leverage. The reason you own insurance companies is is because insurance companies have to keep placing their money. You want to get rich, you buy an insurance company. He's full of [BLEEP]. He's a smart guy in his field. My whole message to everybody is this. Find out the best field for you. For me is real estate and oil. I'm very good in those two fields. And now billboards.
55:39 Graham Stephan? Hmm.
55:40 Speaker 01 I love gold and silver. I have a gold mine in Utah. I took it public on New York Stock Exchange. So one of my goal was to list a company on the New York Stock Exchange. So that's what entrepreneurs do. Our goals are different. The average guy says, oh, I think I'll have a ball diversified program in a 401K. That's not my goal. You know, it takes no intelligence in a 401K.
56:11 Speaker 01 To me, it's a waste of time. I can, I can beat the 401K all the time. I'd rather have oil wells that pay me every single month. Guess what? Every month, they're going to burn that oil. You know, every month. And every month, because of burning that oil, I get a depletion allowance, which means I pay less tax. So I make more money and I pay less tax. To me, that's smart. To put my money in a 401K, I might as well give it to Warren Buffett.
56:46 Speaker 01 But nothing wrong with that.
56:47 Graham Stephan? No.
56:48 Speaker 01 Buffett's a smart boy. But his thing on leverage, he's talking about the average guy. Yet he bought an insurance company, I think it was GEICO or something like that. Insurance companies are the biggest leveragers because they have to leverage your money. You know, if you can put $200 in, they have to be able to pay you your money back later on. So he doesn't tell the whole story. He also, he didn't call, he called gold rat droppings or something like that.
57:16 Graham Stephan? That was, I think Bitcoin, he called Bitcoin rat droppings. Yeah.
57:20 Speaker 01 He's entitled to his opinion. Fine. But each of us has to find the way that makes the most sense to them. I like Bitcoin. I like Ethereum. I like gold. I like silver. I like real estate. I like oil. I don't like stocks. If you like stocks, invest in them. But be good at it. You've got to be very, very good at it.
57:44 Speaker 01 As in, most important thing, don't lie. You make a mistake. Mistakes are very good ways to learn. Oh, I screwed up here.
57:52 Graham Stephan? Yeah.
57:52 Speaker 01 People who lie about their mistakes don't learn.
57:54 Graham Stephan? When it comes to investing in stocks, what do you think about investing in index funds or ETFs that just track the market?
58:00 Speaker 01 For losers. My opinion.
58:03 Graham Stephan? Yeah.
58:03 Speaker 01 But if you're a loser, have a good time.
58:06 Graham Stephan? Graham's a loser. Graham, well, I like index.
58:08 Speaker 01 But, yeah. Tell me wrong.
58:13 Speaker 01 It's not exciting. It's boring as.
58:15 Graham Stephan? That's why I like it, though. Because I don't have to worry. I don't have to think.
58:18 Speaker 01 It fits you.
58:19 Graham Stephan? Because here's the thing. When you're talking about owning all these rental properties and billboards, to me, that just seems like mental energy that gets tied up. And again, you've said before that you do what works for you.
58:30 Speaker 01 Yes.
58:31 Graham Stephan? And when I think about something like my rental properties, I can't stand them. Because when something gets fixed, I look at the bill and I think, how could I have done this for less money? Is this a good bill? I start itemizing every little thing and thinking.
58:45 Speaker 01 You're missing property management.
58:48 Graham Stephan? I have a property manager.
58:49 Speaker 01 Yeah, I don't do that shit.
58:50 Graham Stephan? So here's what bothered me. I had a refrigerator.
58:52 Speaker 01 I don't do that shit, okay? I'm not a laborer.
58:55 Graham Stephan? But how do you know that you're not getting ripped off?
59:00 Speaker 01 Because I have good property managers.
59:02 Graham Stephan? Yeah.
59:02 Speaker 01 Kenny McElroy is my partner. You should read his stuff, you know?
59:07 Graham Stephan? We've been told by a few people we should have him on the show.
59:09 Speaker 01 Yes. The man is a frickin' genius. I mean, the thing I love about Kenny, he's funny, you know? But he's one of the smartest entrepreneurs I have ever met. So when I have a question, I talk to him. The same as my tax guy, Tom Wheelwright, Tax Free Wealth. Interview him. I want to find out oil. It's my friend, Mike Moselli.
59:39 Speaker 01 So I just want the cash flow. I don't want capital gains. I don't want that. I want cash flow. I want as much debt as I can get. And I don't want to pay taxes. That's my game.
59:52 Speaker 00 This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome, that's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration block, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online make sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responses. Setup required. Compatibility and availability varies. 18+.
1:00:17 Graham Stephan? Yeah, I think when it comes to me in real estate, though, I'll give you the refrigerator example because it still bothers me after a few months. I had a refrigerator ice maker, just like this, that broke. And so the tenant called the property manager. The property manager sends me a bill. And I see the bill and it's already paid, already done, but it was $1,200. And the refrigerator was worth $700. And so I said, we spent $1,200 to save a $700 refrigerator. That doesn't make sense. Where did we go wrong on this? And that little discrepancy took my focus away from doing anything else that would have yielded a higher return than me focusing on the refrigerator. And you could say, don't worry about it. You know, it doesn't matter in the big picture.
1:01:02 Graham Stephan? It really doesn't. But stuff like that, I can't help it. It's just how my mind works to optimize every little thing. And so the less I have on my plate and the more I could just focus on doing something like this, that gets a way better ROI than that refrigerator or the property. That's the way I think of things. So I just want to outsource and just index fund.
1:01:21 Jack Selby? Okay, I will say the mentality of I can't help the way that I believe like that my mind is going to react that way.
1:01:27 Graham Stephan? Sure.
1:01:28 Jack Selby? Is a complete cop out. You absolutely can.
1:01:30 Graham Stephan? That's true.
1:01:31 Jack Selby? So you can choose at any given moment to feel however you want to feel. You could choose right now to be like, okay, I'm never going to think about that again. So that's, that's a cop out. I just want to say that. I'm not going to let you say that.
1:01:40 Graham Stephan? All right.
1:01:40 Jack Selby? And just be like, I'm just the type of guy to get really upset when something happens. You could choose to not upset.
1:01:44 Graham Stephan? That's fair. Yeah, I agree with that.
1:01:46 Speaker 01 You're looking at the property management side. I look at real estate, the finance side. So who else is going to lend me? Like I borrowed, how much did I borrow last week? Oh, 25 million. Who's going to give me 25 million to buy the S and P? But real estate, they do. Debt is the way I get rich. So Buffett's saying debt is no good. That's Buffett's plan. This is a great program because what we're saying is find the way that works for you.
1:02:17 Graham Stephan? Mm hmm.
1:02:18 Speaker 01 You know, you're fighting with a refrigerator. I'd rather get $25 million in cash to buy the damn place and hire a property manager.
1:02:28 Jack Selby? Speaking of debt, I would love to hear your opinion on this. We had Dave Ramsey on this podcast and I asked him a question. I want to hear your thoughts on his response. If you could borrow $1 billion, 0% interest for 10 years, would you do it?
1:02:45 Speaker 01 No.
1:02:45 Graham Stephan? Even though you could put it in treasuries after the 10 years, you could lock in 10-year treasury right now, 10%, 5%.
1:02:55 Graham Stephan? It's not worth it.
1:02:56 Speaker 01 I don't borrow money.
1:02:56 Jack Selby? There we go. What do you think about that?
1:03:00 Speaker 01 That's Dave Ramsey's formula. Unfortunately, he's really short sighted. What he doesn't understand is 1971, the US dollar became debt. If you stop borrowing money, the US economy stops. So he says live debt-free is actually unpatriotic. I borrow money as a patriot because when I borrow money, I create money. Money is only, money only comes into existence after 1971, when we borrow money. But it's his formula. But he and I have gone around and around on this, live debt-free or something good.
1:03:44 Graham Stephan? Although really quick, if you're looking to cut back on expenses without really changing your lifestyle, looking at your phone bill is one of the best places to start. Most people are still paying 60, 80, or even $100 or more for something they barely even think about. That's why we're excited to be partnering with today's sponsor, Helium Mobile, because they're doing phone service completely different.
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1:05:23 Jack Selby? It's so funny, but I've actually used Gusto long before they decided to partner with us on this episode. In fact, when I created my first ever S corp, Gusto was there to help because I had no idea what I was doing. From tax filings to benefits to deadlines, it was extremely overwhelming. But Gusto walked me through everything step by step and I've been using them ever since. Gusto is an online payroll and benefit software built for small businesses. It's all-in-one, remote-friendly and incredibly easy to use so you can pay, hire, onboard and support your team from anywhere.
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1:06:35 Graham Stephan? That is gusto.com/iced. Again, gusto.com/iced with the link down below in the description to get started today. Thank you so much, Gusto, for sponsoring this episode and now let's get back to the podcast.
1:06:47 Jack Selby? Have you ever spent time with Dave?
1:06:49 Speaker 01 A little bit. I had dinner with him one night and I said, "How do you think this guy pays for this building?" He says, "Huh."
1:07:00 Speaker 01 Debt. Debt. 1971, the dollar became debt. So just understand that. So in my point of view, when I'm borrowing money, I'm creating money.
1:07:14 Graham Stephan? Do you think there's any peace of mind that you have owning a paid off house, no debt, no credit cards? Everything you buy is yours.
1:07:24 Speaker 01 Yeah, but that doesn't make me peace of mind. I like my game.
1:07:28 Graham Stephan? Yeah.
1:07:29 Speaker 01 I like buying something as big as I can, using as other people's money as much as I can. It's my game. Don't do what I do. I like my game. The first, you know, when I came out of the Marine Corps, I had to learn several things. I had to take sales courses. So my rich dad says, if you can't sell, you can't be an entrepreneur. Then after that was how to raise capital. Debt. And that's when I found out, he says, you better get to know your banker. And so I planned my future by, you know, what I did every day. I don't just jump into it. So I got to know my banker fairly well. Then I got to know my accountants.
1:08:14 Speaker 01 And then some I like, some I didn't like. So today we have the Rich Dad Advisor Team. My accountant, Tom, we all write. I asked all of them to write books, to tell people what they do for me. My accountant on the corporate side is Garrett Sutton.
1:08:32 Speaker 01 Because I use corporations to shield my, protect my wealth, but also limit taxes. So I don't, I don't come into this just guessing.
1:08:42 Graham Stephan? Mm hmm. Do you think money buys happiness? That you become happier the more money you have?
1:08:47 Speaker 01 I do.
1:08:49 Graham Stephan? Is there?
1:08:50 Speaker 01 Have you ever been poor?
1:08:52 Graham Stephan? I wouldn't say poor, poor, but definitely growing up, things were paycheck to paycheck.
1:08:56 Speaker 01 Yeah, it's not happy. I buy like I wanna buy.
1:09:01 Graham Stephan? At what point do you think money slows down?
1:09:05 Speaker 01 If you sell your value system, your soul, you're doing what you hate to do. I love what I do. Like, I went back to Zimbabwe to teach. I work for free. I don't need money. I have so much money coming in. I can work for free. I would hate it if I couldn't go back to Zimbabwe and have to cherish that money. I work for free because I have so much money coming in from assets, not from a job.
1:09:40 Graham Stephan? Have you seen many people sell their soul? And when they do, what is that typically?
1:09:44 Speaker 01 Every day is called, I go to work, I sit on the highway every morning.
1:09:47 Graham Stephan? Yeah. I don't disagree with you. I remember I went to a doctor's appointment recently and I went right after lunch. And so I'm watching some of these doctor's assistants coming in and they say, oh, man, it was Friday. They said, only four more hours until we could get off work. What are you doing this weekend? They're all talking. And I remembered briefly, I, I was working like this nine to five job doing data entry when I was 18. And I remember that same feeling where you would dread Sunday because you had to go to work on Monday morning. And I remember thinking on Fridays, oh, great, one more day left. Only three hours to lunch. And then after lunch, oh, great, only three hours left until I'm off. I'd be so happy on, on Friday.
1:10:32 Graham Stephan? And Saturday, I would think to myself, oh, man, Sunday, I have to go to bed early because Monday I have work. And I remember just thinking, I never wanted to experience that ever.
1:10:42 Speaker 01 Yeah. I've thought about that a lot too, you know? And my best friend, who, who he and I both became billionaires together. And he taught me a very valuable lesson. He says, you start work on Sunday. I went, what? He just reframed it. You know, so we'd go into, we worked at Xerox together in Honolulu.
1:11:06 Graham Stephan? Yeah.
1:11:07 Speaker 01 We'd go to work at, get our own key. We do all of our work on Sunday night because we got more done. And we, we submitted proposals Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday. We had Friday, Saturday, Sunday off.
1:11:22 Graham Stephan? What do you think is the best use of spending money that you've found?
1:11:26 Speaker 01 Education. Like I said, I mean, I'm, I'm, you know, I got one of the benefits of my job is people want me come and speak for them. So I get to go, oh, I can attend a seminar. And I get to hang out with some really smart people. You know, in the, in the green room. That's how I met Trump.
1:11:47 Graham Stephan? Yeah.
1:11:48 Speaker 01 You know, Trump and I hang out in the back room going, and he goes, who are you? And I was, and we're just, and he's, he's, he's the best guy. He and his sons, Don Jr. And Eric. Man, they're good kids, you know? And we became best of friends, sitting in the back room together.
1:12:08 Graham Stephan? When was this?
1:12:10 Speaker 01 Oh, years ago now.
1:12:12 Graham Stephan? What was your first impression of him?
1:12:14 Speaker 01 I think the same as everybody else is kind of a, a presence, you know, he's, I mean, he exudes power. He is a very powerful man. Don Jr. And Eric, Eric Trump were hunters. And we go, this is private island they should take women to in Hawaii. We do it legally this time. And we fly there. We have no toilets, no running water. Those young boys ask no quarter. They're extremely well raised young men. I can, you know, if I had sons, they would be like those two guys. They're the best, tough, mean, not mean, but strong, strong men.
1:12:56 Graham Stephan? What have you learned from Trump?
1:12:58 Speaker 01 That's a good question.
1:13:01 Speaker 01 Just I can call him.
1:13:03 Speaker 01 He's very accessible.
1:13:06 Graham Stephan? How often have you called him?
1:13:07 Speaker 01 Very rarely.
1:13:08 Graham Stephan? And when you do, what do you ask?
1:13:11 Speaker 01 Well, generally, I say, where, hey, where's Don and, where's Don and Eric? We're going hunting together. Now, it's just fun. We're just friends. We wrote two books together. And we're writing, as he'd say, so I got to understand how he thought. I said, he has a problem, you know, and the book, the book was called The Midas Touch, How Entrepreneurs, So Why Some Entrepreneurs Get Rich. So I had to sit with, ask, so how would you do this? And he, he's most generous, very generous man. His whole staff in New York City, just the best people. There was Rona and Meredith
1:13:50 Speaker 01 and all this. His bodyguard Keith, he and I had the body, just a great, just really good people. They're not arrogant. They're not cocky. That was the most surprising thing about hanging out with them.
1:14:06 Graham Stephan? How do you think Trump raised such strong children?
1:14:11 Speaker 01 They said that, um, I asked the question.
1:14:13 Graham Stephan? Yeah.
1:14:14 Speaker 01 Said their mother kicked their asses.
1:14:19 Speaker 01 Now, and they had a sister, you know, certainly, Vana, they're just good kids, just really solid young men. Really, really solid. I mean, you're sitting out there, there's no toilet, you're gonna do a hole. We had to eat what we killed and they don't,
1:14:42 Speaker 01 they don't, they're wimps. They're just solid, good guys.
1:14:47 Graham Stephan? What was your last conversation with Trump like?
1:14:50 Speaker 01 It was, um, we're supposed to write a third book together. And I said, he says, Robert, can't do the book deal with you. Can't let me out of it. We have three book deal. I said, sure, you're out. Why am I gonna hold?
1:15:09 Speaker 01 He says, what are you doing? He says, I'm running for president. I said, good luck. That's all I could say to him. The next thing you know, he's coming down the stairs, you know.
1:15:21 Graham Stephan? Would you ever want to be president?
1:15:23 Speaker 01 No. That's a, he is, you know, you look at Jordan Peterson.
1:15:29 Jack Selby? Yeah, we've had him on the podcast.
1:15:30 Speaker 01 He's like, man, he's a smart dude, Jordan is. But I, I, that's, I got to hang out with those guys, you know, in green rooms. So I was hanging out with Jordan Peterson and all this stuff. And he was talking about Trump, you know, and Jordan has that saying. He says, you think tough men are bad. Weak men are the worst. Something like that. And Jordan says something like that. And so he says, Trump is a strong man. That's what we need at this time. Could you imagine if Kamala had won? Or Joe Biden's crime fam- family? My God. So we needed a tough man at this time. I know people hate him.
1:16:14 Speaker 01 My family hates him. But he's a tough man right now.
1:16:18 Jack Selby? How do you think politics affect the average person when it comes to their money?
1:16:23 Speaker 01 Well, they pay taxes.
1:16:26 Jack Selby? That's true.
1:16:28 Speaker 01 No, I mean, it's, to me, it's really simple. Because I was in Zimbabwe last week. They went bust because they printed money to pay their bills. The United States, it was at 36 trillion in debt.
1:16:43 Jack Selby? Thirty seven now.
1:16:44 Speaker 01 Thirty seven.
1:16:45 Jack Selby? It's almost 38.
1:16:46 Speaker 01 And we had 200 million. So that's, I said, 350 Americans. 200 million are on some kind of governments of subsistence. And my whole family, not all of them. Their idea of a good job is getting a government pension. So it's in your value system. I don't want a government pension. But there's our, there's so many of our school teachers. They want that government pension. And that's the 200 million that are part of this social security disaster we have coming.
1:17:27 Speaker 01 And so I saw young people like you, you know, studies Zimbabwe, 2002. I had my hands up like this. And the law and order breaks. Law and order broke down.
1:17:40 Jack Selby? If you were the average person, let's just call them in their twenties today. And you were starting from zero. What would you do?
1:17:48 Speaker 01 I'd learn how to sell.
1:17:51 Speaker 01 You know, I like network marketing. I tell people to join network marketing. I said, why is that? It's because you learn to take rejection. You know, if you can't take rejection, you can't be an entrepreneur. You know, it's probably the, you know, everybody likes to be liked. I like to be liked. But man, you can handle rejection. Good maid. So network marketing, the guys I hang out with, they're just really good. Another, the other guys are really good. I'm Mormon missionaries. Man, those guys take a lot of rejection. I, I hang out with several of them and go, how'd you guys do that? You know? How'd you do that? You know, and they said, man, you're not going to do it. I'm a US, I'm from the Mormon church.
1:18:33 Speaker 02 Yeah.
1:18:35 Speaker 01 I said, Jesus, the best training you can got.
1:18:38 Graham Stephan? How do you not take that personally? And how do you become a good salesperson?
1:18:42 Speaker 01 That's the trick. If you're like, they call it a snag, a sensitive new age guy. It's hard to get ahead. But there's so many people, they take things so personally. And I told, I, I shouldn't mention the names, but I won't mention it. I told this one person, you charge too much money. They got so upset with me. So my friends are complaining about you. They can't take feedback. Feedback is how we learn.
1:19:16 Graham Stephan? How often do you get feedback? Where people come to you and say, here's my thoughts about what you're doing? And how do you know whether or not to listen to somebody?
1:19:25 Speaker 01 That's a tough, that's a good question because a lot of times I'm a, I have such a nice temper. It's not good. It's not healthy. So I've got to learn to control my temper and actually seek the feedback. It's a discipline I have. Things change as you age and do better and all this stuff. So life's always about change. Change and grow, personal development. I like what you guys are doing, like I said. And I love YouTube. There's a lot of characters on there, you know, a lot of, a lot of, but I listen to them too.
1:20:07 Speaker 01 You know, just keep your mind open and juggle.
1:20:09 Graham Stephan? But how do you decide what to listen to and take to heart and maybe make changes versus someone just giving you advice that's maybe incorrect?
1:20:18 Speaker 01 It's a rescue take.
1:20:21 Speaker 01 I think the most important lesson I learned was I studied with a man named Dr. R. Buckminster Fuller. He's got invented the geodesic dome. So if you go, I went to the Montreal, Montreal World Expo in 67. The US Pavilion was Bucky Fuller's dome. And I'm in there with my classmate.
1:20:44 Speaker 01 But I had studied Fuller. They consider one of the greatest geniuses of our time. I'm studying with Fuller, this one, this thing. So I went to study with him. The lesson I learned, choose your teachers wisely. So once I understood that I wanted to study with Fuller, I tracked him down. So when he gave a seminar, I went to listen to him. So I studied with Fuller for three summers. You know, once, once a year and once, once in Hawaii, once there. And I sat there with him. And he asked me, because I have a class of about a hundred people. And I'm sitting there, I'm kind of, I don't like to share things by myself.
1:21:27 Speaker 01 And he kind of said, hey, what's your life's purpose?
1:21:32 Speaker 01 And here he is, the world's greatest genius, Buckminster Fuller. You know, John Denver wrote songs about him, all this stuff. I said, I'm going to get rich. And in front of a hundred people, he chews me out.
1:21:46 Speaker 01 Young man, young man, young man, getting rich is a waste of a good mind. I went, what? So here's all his groupies who love him. I'm getting my ass chewed up by Bucky Fuller, you know? And he goes, well, what am I supposed to do? He says, ask yourself this, young man.
1:22:09 Speaker 01 What does God want done? I said, what? What does God want?
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1:22:43 Speaker 01 Done. Not what you want to do. What does God want done? So I'm hurting inside because he chewed me out for 100 people. You know, nobody's like, get chewed out. But the lesson hits me says, what does God want done?
1:23:03 Speaker 01 So this was studying, this is in Reno, Nevada, in the mountains. So I left there and I said, what does God want done?
1:23:13 Speaker 01 I thought about and thought about and thought about him.
1:23:17 Speaker 01 And I created my cash flow board game. And I wrote Rich Dad, Poor Dad.
1:23:23 Speaker 01 I said, there's no financial education at schools. I think if I was God, that's what I would want. And that was in 96 and 97. And now those board games have gone all over the world.
1:23:35 Jack Selby? Did you know when you wrote the book that it was going to be a hit?
1:23:38 Speaker 01 I flunked that high school twice because I can't write. It's not that I can't write. Teacher didn't like what I was writing. But the question I leave for young men like you, what does God want done? You know, you can see it. And for me, I was kind of naturally interested in money. So I naturally studied money.
1:24:01 Speaker 01 And so when Dave Ramsey says, live debt free, I said, well, if you understood money, Dave, you know, you stop borrowing money, the economy stops. What are you going to do?
1:24:14 Speaker 01 Do you know? You couldn't answer the question.
1:24:17 Jack Selby? When's the last time you changed your mind on something?
1:24:20 Speaker 01 All the time, all the time.
1:24:22 Jack Selby? In any significant way, anytime in the past few years or recently?
1:24:27 Speaker 01 Recently, yeah. Like going to Zimbabwe.
1:24:32 Speaker 01 You know, I said there.
1:24:33 Jack Selby? How did that change your mind, though?
1:24:35 Speaker 01 I realized I made a promise back in 2002.
1:24:41 Speaker 01 There's a poem by, I wrote about it in Rich Dad Poor Dad, by Robert Frost. "The woods are lovely, dark and deep, but I have promises to keep. And miles to go before I sleep, and miles to go before I sleep." The title of the poem was "The Roadless Travelled." I said, "What am I supposed to do?"
1:25:05 Speaker 01 I said, "I'm supposed to come back to Zimbabwe and teach." And I said, "I get paid zero, but I made a promise to those people in 2002. I'd come back because I have promises to keep." So now my cash flow board game's there. They're teaching everybody. I'm donating 120 games and they're going to start clubs all around Zimbabwe to teach people money come up. Because I've kept the promise. I'm going to teach these people. Or allow them the possibility of learning. Because they're not going to learn it in school.
1:25:43 Jack Selby? Yeah.
1:25:44 Speaker 01 They're one of the richest countries in the world. Used to be called Rhodesia. Now it's Zimbabwe. The biggest financial disaster in history took place there. The Zim dollar. The US dollar's next. So I'm practicing.
1:26:02 Jack Selby? How do you now define wealth or success now that you have basically all of the money anyone could ever ask for?
1:26:09 Speaker 01 What does God want done?
1:26:11 Jack Selby? So you ask yourself that, come to an answer, and then pursue that. What emphasis do you place on legacy?
1:26:18 Speaker 01 Not much.
1:26:20 Speaker 01 When I'm dead, that's it.
1:26:21 Jack Selby? Yeah. You don't have any children.
1:26:24 Speaker 01 No.
1:26:24 Jack Selby? What are you, what are you going to do with your money?
1:26:26 Speaker 01 It's going to, um, my ex-wife. She's going to manage it. Now I have, that's going to be a big foundation and all that.
1:26:37 Speaker 01 But I haven't decided how this that's a project I'm working on now. That's a very important question.
1:26:43 Jack Selby? What's one daily habit you never will skip?
1:26:46 Speaker 01 I get up every morning and take um. I read I want to call it spiritual. But the kind of spiritual readings. And I don't just read it, I write it. And I write it three times. So maybe a paragraph.
1:27:03 Speaker 01 Because I studied for Maria Montessori in the Montessori School System, great entrepreneur. She says, what the hand does to mine remembers. So if I just read spiritual words. When I have to write them, it embeds. So that's one habit I get up and I. Basically, not plagiarize them, just.
1:27:25 Jack Selby? Yeah.
1:27:25 Speaker 01 Oh, it's nice passage. I write it three times.
1:27:28 Jack Selby? Cool.
1:27:29 Speaker 01 And I set the day off with that.
1:27:30 Jack Selby? Who would you say is the biggest mentor or influence on your life?
1:27:36 Speaker 01 Buckminster Fuller.
1:27:38 Speaker 01 The happiest thing about my life is um. God, not really religious, but I believe there's a God. And this vibration is that we go through in life, you know? Like, I feel good here, go someplace else, you don't feel so good.
1:27:51 Jack Selby? Yeah.
1:27:51 Speaker 01 So. I'm going to do a whole series. With another guy on Bucky Fuller now. So like you guys do an Ice Coffee Hour.
1:28:00 Jack Selby? Yeah.
1:28:01 Speaker 01 I'm going to do one on Bucky Fuller, the greatest Jesus of our time. And that makes my heart happy. So that's that's God telling me you're on course. Because the frequent, you know, the it feels good, that's the difference.
1:28:15 Jack Selby? Good. If you were to finish this sentence, money is blank. What would you put in?
1:28:22 Speaker 01 Freedom.
1:28:23 Jack Selby? Freedom.
1:28:25 Jack Selby? Cool. Robert, thank you. Thank you so much for coming on the Ice Coffee Hour. This was honestly a blast. This was an honor, a pleasure.
1:28:32 Speaker 01 It's crazy.
1:28:33 Jack Selby? Your insights are phenomenal. I love not only like the money and finance conversation, but also just the life and everything. And I think it's also interesting, what would God want? Asking yourself that and then just gearing your actions towards it.
1:28:47 Speaker 01 Yeah, what does God want done?
1:28:50 Speaker 01 And then go do it.
1:28:51 Jack Selby? Thank you. This is an honor.
1:28:53 Speaker 01 Thank you.
1:28:53 Jack Selby? Appreciate it.
1:28:53 Speaker 01 Much.
1:28:54 Jack Selby? Till next time.
1:28:55 Speaker 01 Thank you.
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Previous Money Expert: Exactly How To Make $1,000,000 From NOTHING! | Sahil Bloom Next America’s $37 Trillion Financial Reset Just Started - Do This Now! | Andrei Jikh Page updated November 1, 2026 · transcript and summary are machine-generated