Pod Insights The Ed Mylett Show The Relationship Secrets Every Couple Should Know But No One Teaches About this episode Are You Speaking to Their Greatness or Their Deficiencies?
This conversation challenged me in the best way—and I think it will challenge you too. I sat down with relationship coaches Jocelyn and Aaron Freeman, and we didn’t hold back. We got into the real, unfiltered truth about what makes a relationship thrive and what quietly breaks it down over time. And I’ll be honest—I learned a lot about myself in this one.
We talked about why most couples argue the same way every time, how we start talking to our partner's flaws instead of their potential, and how easy it is to stop being curious about the person we love the most. That hit me hard. Because curiosity? It’s not just a phase when you're dating—it’s a choice. When you stay curious, people become more interesting. And when you stop being interested, they stop showing you who they really are.
One of the most important takeaways: the “5 Rs” the Freemans teach—Reflect, Responsibility, Reconnect, Remind, Reconcile. It’s a practical framework that helps couples come back from conflict stronger. But what stood out even more was this mindset they kept coming back to: we’re on the same team. That phrase alone has the power to stop an argument in its tracks and realign a relationship that feels like it’s drifting apart.
This episode is packed with real tools, honest moments, and a whole lot of heart. If you’re in a relationship—new or decades deep—there’s something here for you. You’re either training your partner that this is a safe space to share… or you’re teaching them to keep it all inside. That’s the choice. And I want you to choose connection.
Key Takeaways:
The most damaging part of conflict isn't the argument—it's the lack of repair after.
Learn the 5 Rs to recover and reconnect after a disagreement.
“Speaking to your partner’s greatness” builds them up and strengthens your bond.
Curiosity is the secret to keeping relationships alive and engaging.
One person can spark change, but both have to sustain it.
You don’t have to end the relationship to end the version of it that isn’t working.
Let this episode be the spark. Listen with your partner. Talk about it. And remember—you’re on the same team.
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Transcript 16,543 words · 4 speakers
Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:00 Ed Mylett? So hey guys, listen, we're all trying to get more productive. And the question is, how do you find a way to get an edge? I'm a big believer that if you're getting mentoring or you're in an environment that causes growth, a growth-based environment, that you're much more likely to grow and you're going to grow faster. And that's why I love Growth Day. Growth Day is an app that my friend Brendan Burchard has created that I'm a big fan of. Write this down, growthday.com/ed. So if you want to be more productive, by the way, he's asked me, I post videos in there every single Monday that gets your day off to the right start. He's got about $5,000, $10,000 worth of courses that are in there that come with the app. Also, some of the top influencers in the world are all posting content in there on a regular basis, like having the Avengers of personal development and business in one app. And I'm honored that he asked me to be a part of it as well and contribute on a weekly basis, and I do.
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2:04 Speaker 01 This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. Good times mean competitions between you and your friends. Like seeing who can throw some pigskin the farthest or rush the field the fastest. Winner gets an ultra because it's not just a superior light beer. It's also giving fans superior access to their favorite sporting events. Superior is worth playing for. Visit michelobultra.com slash superior access to enter. Enjoy responsibly. Copyright 2026 Anheuser Busch InBev Michelob Ultra Beer, St. Louis, Missouri.
2:38 Ed Mylett? This is the Ed Miliband Show.
2:42 Ed Mylett? All right, welcome back to the show, everybody. So we're going to talk about relationships and your intimate one. You know the one I'm talking about. So I have some marriage experts with me here today, but I've asked them to expand the base of our conversation to what I would call intimate relationships. So whatever your significant other is, whether you're married or not, we're going to have an incredible conversation today about the dynamics of that relationship, how to improve it, how to argue maybe better and how to not have a hangover after you argue as well. So the book they have out right now is called The Argument Hangover. We're going to talk a little bit about the book. We're going to talk a lot about you and marriages and boyfriend, girlfriend. Josh Lynn and Aaron Freeman, welcome to the show.
3:22 Speaker 02 Thank you for having us. Dream come true.
3:23 Ed Mylett? Thank you for being here. Okay, first of all, what is an argument hangover? I think I know what that means. I've read the book, so I pretty much do. But you think there's a result or a problem after an argument with a couple? Is that what it means?
3:36 Speaker 02 So the argument hangover is the experience that you have after you have a conflict with your partner. And if you both walk away and you feel disconnected, you feel lethargic, you feel discouraged, people don't perform as well at work, they're not as present with their kids. And so we all know that just icky feeling after an argument. You're disconnected from the person that you love most in the world and you want nothing more than to understand each other, but you don't in that moment. And so our first book is really about how do you handle that argument hangover? Because how you handle that time? Truly does impact your connection moving forward. People don't realize that, but that is either going to rattle the security and the trust in your partnership,
4:19 Speaker 02 or it's going to strengthen your bond and your ability to feel more secure in the relationship. So we have a lot of strategies in there about how you repair, because all of the research in the marriage space points to that it's not about avoiding conflict. And in fact, avoiding conflict can lead to resentment in the long term. It's really about how you engage in conflict and even more specifically, how you repair afterwards makes all the difference.
4:47 Ed Mylett? Okay, so Erin, let me ask you this. So the book's very thorough, but we're going to talk outside the scope of the book. They're actually getting ready to write another one right now. But you talk in the book about before, during, and after the conflict. So we might as well start kind of like in the beginning. So before a conflict, let's say that, you know, perhaps Jocelyn had said or done something that just rubbed you the wrong way, right? Is there anything pre-conflict, I guess, before conflict that you recommend people do? Is it like take a breather before you respond? Or what are your recommendations that somebody do there?
5:18 Speaker 03 Yeah, such a good question. And we've been thinking about this a lot, right? There's, there's this ideal that you want to shoot for, right? So let's go 70, 20, 10%.
5:27 Ed Mylett? Okay.
5:28 Speaker 03 You want to have your communication, your proactive, assertive communication, whether it's about your unmet needs, about the desires that you have. You want that to cover 70% to prevent conflicts. Now, we have grace. We know things are going to happen. And so in the 20%, that's what we call the during. That's where tension is starting to arise. You get into the conflict cycle.
5:51 Ed Mylett? Yes.
5:52 Speaker 03 Which is really just, it's your fears, it's your core wounds, it's your reactions. We can allow for that to happen and we're human beings. We have to have these experiences. I can feel disrespected sometimes. But in this during, the 20% is that we can de-escalate and we can regulate our emotions to not do more damage. Now, I think this is the, this is the big thing about the argument hangover, right? Because the 10% is, we're not always going to be our best. We don't need to shoot for this idea of perfection. In the 10%, if we have a process that we can repair, we can trust that we can come to each other, we can take the responsibility we need,
6:32 Speaker 03 we can let our egos on the side and say, hey, here's where I see I could have been better. Here's the impact I had and we can repair. That's the percent you want to be aiming for in your marriage. 70% is to prevent conflict in your proactive communication. 20% is we, we de-escalate. 10% we repair.
6:52 Ed Mylett? It's really good. You know, I was, I was thinking about a conversation today because, you know, this is tough because once you're in a marriage or you're in a long-term committed relationship, you do create, everyone listening to this is in a pattern now with their partner. There's a way they argue. Some are passive aggressive. Some say horribly mean things when they argue. Some have built this terminology of self of like, I'm, you're, you're going past my boundaries. You know, there's, there's all these dynamics. So I know people listening like, because I don't want you to just be entertained today, listening or watching. I actually want to give you some tools or at least some philosophical thoughts that could improve your relationship. And I can tell you what it was in the book for me, in your work. I think
7:34 Ed Mylett? your work's tremendous. This is why I wanted you to be on. And this may seem simple, but I'd like you to elaborate on this. I think understanding your own communication type and that of your significant other goes a real long way. And so you list in there, like the, there's four. So listen to this, everybody. There's assertive, inflexible communication style. There's assertive, flexible. So you're an assertive person, but you're flexible. The third is, what, what do you call it? Passive? Is that the word that you guys use in the book?
8:06 Speaker 03 Reserved.
8:06 Ed Mylett? Reserved. That's right. Reserved, inflexible and reserved, flexible. Okay. So with that as a backdrop, I would consider myself, I think, an assertive, flexible.
8:17 Speaker 02 Okay.
8:18 Ed Mylett? I think.
8:18 Speaker 02 Would your wife say that?
8:20 Ed Mylett? I think she would say that. Okay. Great point. I think she would say that. Post-conflict.
8:26 Speaker 02 Okay.
8:26 Ed Mylett? So that's what I want to talk about. During conflict, in almost all my relationships, I think I'm probably assertive inflexible. Then I get away from it, then my emotions drop, and I become assertive flexible. I might even become reserved flexible, frankly. I think I might even shift to where I'm the much more passive. I feel a lot of guilt. I hate conflict. So although I create it, I don't like dissension, and I can't sleep if I'm out sideways with a friend, or with my kids, or my wife. I literally can't function if I feel like I've hurt somebody. Yet, my assertiveness hurts people typically. So I'm gonna just throw that at you. Why is this relevant? And how do you know which one you are?
9:10 Speaker 02 Well, let's define assertiveness, right? Healthy assertiveness, because people can misinterpret that word and think that it's just speaking their mind. Assertiveness is deliberate. It's intentional. It's how do I express my wants, my needs, my feelings, proactively in a way that sets the other person up for success. There's a lot about how we can actually set our partner up for failure with other types of communication. There's a big difference. Assertiveness is about being direct but kind. How do I say this in a way that will land for them, to resonate? So for example, my old assertiveness would be, "You just don't even take me on a dates anymore. Like, when was the last time you planned a date for us?"
9:54 Speaker 02 Rather than, "Babe, I'm feeling disconnected. We've been so busy." And you know what? I realize it means so much if we took turns planning different date experiences for us. Which one is going to land better for the other person?
10:06 Ed Mylett? By a mile, the second one.
10:08 Speaker 02 Right. And so, all right, we're gonna practice assertiveness. Now, in a marriage, we're not gonna always get our way. Our partner also has wants and needs. They also have a schedule. They also have things that are weighing on them. So that flexibility piece is, how do we come into a conversation not saying, "You need to succumb to what I want?" You need to meet every need that I'm expressing in this moment, but rather I also want to hear you. And then let's find a way to create a win-win agreement or a win-win plan moving forward.
10:38 Speaker 03 And we're getting down to some real specifics, but if you could take this away, that being flexible is more around being flexible on the activity, not on your core need.
10:48 Ed Mylett? Okay.
10:49 Speaker 03 And people get stuck on the flexibility that, well, I want to go on a date at this time, or our budget needs to be exactly like this, or we're going to take our kids to this school, right? And so people get more inflexible when it's only about the activity. But we have to remember, the activity is still intending to meet a certain core need, a core need of security, a core need of confidence of bringing our kids up in, whether it's a Christian mindset of being kind, of being responsible. And if you remember that together, that's our core need. And where we want to be flexible is understanding the experience of my partner,
11:29 Speaker 03 and how are we going to adapt or change our lifestyle or actions to realign with the need? And it's not about just staying fixed and rigid to the activity that I had in mind.
11:41 Ed Mylett? By the way, now that you describe it that way, just so I'm clear. By the way, what a great conversation already, what you're saying. I, um, I'm reserved. I'm not assertive. I never express my needs.
11:52 Speaker 02 Okay.
11:52 Ed Mylett? I, I'm actually, I'm an assertive personality, but in the way that you're couching it now, I'm definitely reserved. I never express needs. Isn't it interesting, by the way, everybody listening and watching, that the notion of being more cognizant of our communication style, the words we use, with our significant other, they are typically the, the last person we do this with. We'll do it with a stranger or in a business meeting, thinking of choosing our words correctly, or our style, but she just have these powers like, hey, just make dinner. Or hey, listen, you pick the restaurant, you know, like it's
12:24 Speaker 02 Kind of lazy with our words.
12:25 Ed Mylett? Very lazy, so good. Actually, maybe even lazy with our intent. It's just a pattern now for most people, and I believe that's true. So someone listening to this goes, yeah, I am. Does it not take two to tango? If you start to change your, like, I want, I would like to express that I think we should have dinner, you start changing your language and the other person's looking at you like, what, what are you doing? So is this something that you start to choose as a couple? Or can you actually change the dynamic, do you think, in your relationship by just first changing you?
12:53 Speaker 02 So we talked to couples all day, every day, going on a decade now. And one person can spark change, they can't sustain it themselves, nor should they. What other context can you kind of sit back and, and say, no, no, no, it's on you? That wouldn't work in the workplace. That wouldn't work if you weren't a sports team. That wouldn't work anywhere else. So having that team mindset of, are we both playing our part? So again, one of you can spark the change and say, you know what? All right, I'm not going to do my normal pattern that I do. I want to shift this dynamic between us. But the other person also needs to say, I'm going to do my part too. So that's that team mindset.
13:35 Speaker 02 And what you just said, there's two roles you have to master in communication. How I express myself, so that's the speaker. And then how I receive my partner, how I listen to them. You have to get good at both because here's the thing. There's a lot of communication tips online, like that's all over social media, podcasts, say this, you know, change your words this way. Make sure you focus on your tone and all of that is 100% true. That's one of the roles we need to master. But we also can't constantly get defensive or deflect what our partner is saying if they don't deliver it in the perfect way. So we need to be receptive. We need to be a team player and say, you know what? Maybe my partner had a short tone, but they might be stressed. They might be tired.
14:19 Speaker 02 They might not feel connected to me right now. So you know what? Let me catch what they're saying. Let me acknowledge, instead of what people do, this, this can really spark a conflict is, why are you saying it to me like that? So you miss the main point of what they're saying, which might be revealing how they feel. And they delivered it in an imperfect way, but we're all human beings. So if you constantly are deflecting, no, don't say it to me this way, change the way you're saying it. You're just gonna stay stuck.
14:47 Ed Mylett? Very good.
14:47 Speaker 02 So remember, I have to also focus on how I listen to my partner, how I receive what they're saying to me.
14:54 Ed Mylett? So good, Jocelyn. That team thing you said, I want to just go there for a second. I think it's like the foundation. So ironically, I'm coming back from a speaking engagement this weekend. I know I'm going to be talking to you guys today. And it was a very stressful flight back and stressful in the sense that there were delays and cancellations. And so I end up sitting and my headphones were dead. My sound cancelling headphones, noise cancelling. So now I can hear conversations. The couple behind me, they're getting after each other. Right? They're getting, and I was just one of those elevated stress days. They fell into their pattern of how they communicate. And it was kinda hard to hear some of it, you know?
15:33 Ed Mylett? Anyway, the wife finally said, I just thought this was beautiful. She finally says, hey, stop. Are we on the same team here? She literally said those words. Are we on the same team here? Cause if we are, let's eradicate this right now. She didn't use the word eradicate. She used a cuss word. She said, let's effing stop this, right? And he goes, yes. And he said it quietly too. And the conversation softened. Do you think that maybe like the foundational thing first is to go, hey, we're one team here. It's not us against each. Doesn't it feel like that in your relationship sometimes? To me, when there's an argument, I feel separate as opposed to one.
16:16 Ed Mylett? And if you can get back to where you just have a baseline belief that we are one, or is that a flawed belief? Because you are two individual human beings at the same time. I'm just super, that's why this stuff's an inexact science and it's an art also. But I'm curious about your thoughts about that.
16:29 Speaker 02 You're diving into our upcoming material and our book. So we're not going to give it all away.
16:34 Ed Mylett? Well, give it much away.
16:35 Speaker 02 Yeah, we'll give it a lot away. But that same team mindset is required for marriage. If you think about it in marriage, you're going to face hard seasons. Some will be short, some will be long, some you never expected. But that same team mindset of if this is a hard moment, but it's us against the challenge. It is not us against each other. And yeah, we're going to lose sight of that. Like you said, that couple, you can lose sight of that in the moment when you're triggered, you're frustrated. But if one of you says that, babe, we're on the same team. That mindset will completely shift your attitude, how you're showing up, how you approach the conversation. So not only does it show up in the interactions in that moment, but
17:17 Speaker 02 we've gone through some really unexpected hard times. You know, we don't, we can go into it as much as you want, but our hardest year ever was in 2022. We had a young baby. And at the same time, several of our big financial investments all failed at once.
17:32 Ed Mylett? Oh, my gosh.
17:33 Speaker 02 So here we are with a young baby, which is a vulnerable time, right? There's a lot changing in your life, you know. And that financial fear was very real. I mean, this wasn't just like, oh, we lost a little bit of like savings money. We were down to dollars. That's how many big investments failed at once.
17:50 Ed Mylett? Oh, my gosh.
17:51 Speaker 02 And it was such a humbling moment. And it was a moment that many couples would have turned on each other, truly. They would have blamed each other because frankly, there were things, mistakes we each made that we could have been like, I can't believe you did that. We could have, we both made mistakes that led to the different challenges in that moment. But we frequently said to each other, we're on the same team. We've got this. We're going to be stronger on the other side. And that mindset, on the other side, we have been stronger.
18:24 Ed Mylett? Interesting.
18:25 Speaker 02 Our bond is unbreakable.
18:26 Speaker 03 And if I can add, because The Power of One More came out at that time. And me reading that and getting all that information from you, the same team mentality, sometimes it's broad in general. And you kind of need that in those moments you're talking about with that couple on the plane. It's like the broader perspective. Remember, we're on the same team here. And sometimes it's also very particular to where you're at right now. Every day I was having to wake up, Jocelyn had to do our coaching. I was having to construction manage this project that, and I'm a new father. I actually thought, if I don't handle this, we could be on the street. And me being a dad, and, and, and failing my, my new child and my wife in that way, like, it really struck me. And so the, the power of one more was
19:09 Speaker 03 every moment of every day was to remind us that we're on the same team today, and we're going to have God guide us today. We're going to be on the same team today. I don't even know what tomorrow's going to look like at this point. And that's how you have to approach this. It's sometimes micro and it's sometimes macro, but it's still that same team.
19:27 Ed Mylett? So very fresh for you, your face there, brother. God bless you. You're such a good man. You love your family so much. I love when. A man shows emotion.
19:38 Ed Mylett? So many things I want to ask you about on this, but I don't want to pry into your own relationship too much.
19:42 Speaker 02 You can. We're an open book.
19:43 Ed Mylett? Well, I don't believe everybody's the same. I don't believe in super specific, men need this, women need that. But I will say that I want to talk about things that kind of, kind of, kind of wound during a disagreement. This is just me. I just want to say this. You tell me if I'm unusual as a man or it's normal as a man. I think love is a baseline criteria for marriage. We'll talk about that, or even any intimate relationship. But for me, belief, knowing that she believes in me is equally or more important. And when I feel that there's a lack of belief, wow, that's a, that's a danger zone to go into. In her case, I think it's typically feeling safe. That's just our relationship.
20:28 Ed Mylett? How common is that? Or is it completely different in every relationship, every man and every woman? Or do you think most men are like, if, if my lady believes in me, I feel stronger and more ready to go in the world. But if she gives me the feeling I'm, I'm not, that she doesn't believe in me. At least as a man, I have to tell you, this man speaking, that is a, that's a no-go zone for me. I'm, I'm, that's a kryptonite for me.
20:51 Speaker 02 Every partner in a relationship, romantic, marriage, has some kind of core wound or insecurity, or just that sensitive spot. We're all imperfect human beings. So you're not exempt from that. It doesn't matter how successful you've been, right? How much you have achieved, we're still going to have that little chink in our armor. And so that's one of the things we need to learn about ourselves and our partner. And so we have this whole exercise that we normally take couples through. It'd be more of a visual tool that people would need to see. But it's identifying what are those core fears or triggers? Usually people have top two or three. So for you, you just described yours, right?
21:32 Speaker 02 And so a very common one that I hear from people is feeling misperceived or misunderstood. And why is that? Well, we want nothing more than the person that we're closest to and love the most in the world to understand where we're coming from. And when we don't, it just, it feels. Triggering, it feels uncomfortable. How can you not understand what I was trying to say? Or where I'm coming from? You're perceiving me as this bad person and I'm not. I'm just trying to talk to you about something. And so every, there's a long list that we have couples pick from to really identify that. But I think for all of the listeners to say, do I know my own? Could I say right now on a piece of paper, my top two or three core fears and triggers?
22:16 Speaker 02 Put a name on them. Is it feeling misunderstood? Is it feeling unloved? Is it feeling abandoned? Here's another big one. Not good enough. Because so many of us also grew up in environments where love was given when we performed well. When we pleased our parents. And so that's a big trigger. So do I know my own and do I know my partners? Because when you're in that interaction, tension is starting to arise. We can all feel it. We know it. And there's a moment where if you could become conscious and say, this isn't about the topic right now. It could, you can swap in any subject, finances, date night, your kids going to dinner on Friday, any subject.
22:58 Speaker 02 But if it's provoking emotion within you, it's because now there's this undercurrent of your triggers and your fears coming up. And so if you could in that moment be like, babe, we're doing that thing again.
23:11 Ed Mylett? Yeah.
23:12 Speaker 02 Is this when you feel unheard? And you know, from me, I'm feeling not good enough right now. That's all you have to say right there to just kind of diffuse that tension and then redirect it to say, what do we each need right now? People start picking at the details and then you're in the cycle. It's a tornado that sweeps you up. So it's really so much like the conflict work and communication work is about just that moment where you could say, this could go a different way. If I just redirect us.
23:42 Ed Mylett? It's so important because I'm thinking about like, what we say, you get out of school, you learn about algebra and history, but you don't know anything about how to run your budget. And when you get into a relationship, in general, it's typically like, I think you're hot. You think I'm pretty hot. Oh, and then you go through shared values, shared goals and dreams. And if all that stuff lines ends up, you kind of get together, but you never go through communication style. You never go through, what's the traumatic trigger for me? Cause like what you just said about, I said, I have mine's belief, but the way you said it's actually what it really is for me. Right? I wasn't, I only got credit as a kid or love when I performed. So I want to know that you believe in me. And so it's, isn't that interesting? We don't do, and that's why everyone listening to this, like your relationship, there's another level for it. If you could get, get better at these things.
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27:32 Ed Mylett? And one of them is recovering from the disagreement. And you have these Rs that are like the relationship hangover, five Rs. People like to remember stuff, right? So, so take us through what those are because I'm going to hit you with some hard questions after this one.
27:48 Speaker 02 I want the hard questions.
27:49 Ed Mylett? Well, I know you're ready for them.
27:50 Speaker 02 So even though we have five Rs and if you want to describe them, I think even if couples did the first three, they would notice a huge shift.
27:59 Speaker 03 Well, it's two phases, right? The five Rs is we need to recognize, are we in the before, during or after? First of all, right? Because in the during, if you can recognize that we need to
28:09 Ed Mylett? Conflict, during conflict.
28:10 Speaker 03 During conflict that we need to deescalate and then we need to self-regulate, right? And then you have, well, we didn't do that so well. There's some grace for that, but so long as we're 90%, then we'll get into repair. So. Putting that in the right placement, then the five Rs are really about reflecting first and foremost. As you get better, you do it more in the moment. Like when Jocelyn and I get into something, I can remember these five Rs and I can do it as we're still engaged in the conversation. But as you're practicing it, you might need to request that pause, right? Because if you're still needing to practice your self-regulation and your co-regulation, then you might need that pause still. So in either case, the first R is reflect. And reflecting is saying, what was the root cause?
28:55 Speaker 03 And it takes it from the subject that you think you were arguing about really to getting, what's the need? What was the missing need for me? And I'm usually not connected to that. I'm usually connected to what I feel wronged by, what I'm upset by, the logistics. I don't agree with that. You did this first. And none of that matters in this.
29:14 Ed Mylett? Are you doing this together? Or are you doing this in your own space?
29:16 Speaker 02 Individually reflecting.
29:17 Ed Mylett? Yeah, okay, got it.
29:18 Speaker 03 So in the reflect, I'm needing to come to that realization myself. What's the real root cause here? And then we can, my emotion's going to down-regulate a bit. And then I can move into the second part, which is the responsibility. So the second R is responsibility. And I'm still partially doing this on my own. So I can think about all the places my partner was responsible and what I want them to admit that they were wrong. That's, it's just not going to get you anywhere, right? We've all done it. You have to take this step where I'm willing to say what I'm responsible for, but identify that for myself. Now I take those two steps into the third R, which is to reconnect. Now that's where I'm hopefully regulating my emotion.
30:01 Speaker 03 I initiate a conversation with Jocelyn by saying a version of this. Hey, if you're ready to connect, I am. And if you're not, that's okay. But I'd like to start by saying, in my reflection, I see that I was responsible first and foremost, that I just let the agreement go out the window. And the promise I made to you, I, I broke. And I'm sure it had you feel disrespected. It may be it eroded trust, but I take responsibility for that. That gets us into we're on the same team here, right? It's going to be us looking at the pattern, the problem. So there's some various things we could talk more about, but that's really the the third R. And if any, if couples can do that, that's a huge win.
30:44 Speaker 02 I want to say like, those are not easy steps.
30:46 Speaker 03 Yeah.
30:47 Speaker 02 And we know that that's why the lack of repair is one of the biggest things that destroys marriages. Because these aren't easy steps. When you just leave an argument, you're like, fine, we're taking space. The mind is going to villainize the other person. That's part of what our mind is meant to do. We're always innocent.
31:04 Speaker 03 Yeah.
31:04 Speaker 02 Right? And so we're always biased in our own favor. So you actually have to force your mind in a sense to say, I'm going to focus on my part, though. What can I own? And that's not easy. It's a conscious choice. All of this is doing the hard thing. That's what marriage requires is I'm going to do the hard thing, which is redirect my mind to what is my part that I can own? I'm not saying I'm taking all the responsibility.
31:31 Speaker 03 I'm not to blame.
31:32 Speaker 02 It's not about blame. It's just I played a part. What is that? What could I have done better? And then the root cause is.
31:40 Speaker 03 If I can give a, if I can give a signal here, because there is a lot to this process, right? And that's why we try to break into the five Rs. But there's a couple of points in the reconnect that you want to pay attention to. It's that when you, when your partner feels understood, there's a breath. When I take responsibility, hey, I broke an agreement and I, I know that that probably eroded some trust in you.
32:09 Speaker 03 And there's a breath there because you're actually capturing what the emotional impact is on your partner. Then that you can feel it. It's tangible. You can feel that you went beyond the barrier and it reconnected you. That's why we call it reconnect. And then in that, you've addressed the emotional side of both of your brains. And I know there's a lot of questions, so I'll just complete the five Rs. That's the moment you know you can move into the logical side. So the last two are about remind. And we can now have a conversation where we remind each other of what are our agreements? Or we need to remake our agreements? Or even, we didn't have any. So what are our agreements going to be going forward?
32:52 Speaker 03 Whether it's conflict, whether it's around parenting, finances, business, whatever the category might be. And we need to now make for my own integrity. I promise you, and no matter if you end up breaking this agreement or not, I will commit to a minimum standard of care that I will not gonna do this anymore.
33:12 Speaker 03 And that's the promise I take forward. And that's gonna be my integrity. And then lastly is that we reconcile. But it's that we can now genuinely look at each other and say, we managed our emotions, we got to the root cause, we made new agreements, I'm recommitting, there's a rebuild of trust there. And there's something that we could take away as the silver lining. We actually gained something from this.
33:38 Speaker 02 This is like the sprinkle on top. Like, again, that's why we said even if you did the first three.
33:41 Ed Mylett? Yeah, I see that.
33:42 Speaker 02 But the fifth one is powerful if it was a really big conflict and it almost felt as though, what does this mean about us? And it rattles your sense of, are we good? It's kind of that just final layer of babe, like, we got this, we're a team and we're gonna move forward.
34:00 Ed Mylett? Isn't that important? Because I was just thinking about what you were saying. And then, by the way, I'm gonna ask a question for some of the ladies. They're like, look, I'm with a Neanderthal, dude. We're not gonna be talking about, I take responsibility for, right? I know a lot of people, I'm thinking of my buddies. 25% of my guys can communicate like you do. 75% of them have no idea how to express their emotions or their thoughts whatsoever. So we're gonna go for those in a minute, just stay tuned. But the reconcile thing is, it made me think, you kind of need to resolve these arguments and reconcile. Because if you don't, to some extent, you've left this open wound that goes into the next one and the next one and the next one. So many couples actually never reconcile at all after the disagreement, after the argument. And it's just over, but it's really not over, right? It kind of, do you agree with that? The wound's sort of open.
34:43 Speaker 02 Well, and here's the real danger of not repairing. It changes the way you see each other. If you really think about what has a marriage decline, of course, like the the circumstances might look different, the details, but what really happens is how you perceive each other changes.
35:02 Ed Mylett? Yeah.
35:02 Speaker 02 In the beginning, it's like you see all the amazing things about the other person, almost rosy colored glasses at times, right? And the longer you're together, the more that you face, the circumstances, the hardship, the adversity, if you don't handle it with that same team mindset, or take responsibility and repair, you start to see the person in a more negative light.
35:23 Ed Mylett? Yeah.
35:24 Speaker 02 They don't own their part in this. How can I fully trust this person that I'm building a life with if they can't even apologize for when they say something that's hurtful? How am I supposed to show love to this person that can't just acknowledge my feelings? So that's the real danger that for anyone listening, if you struggle with that part of repair, of taking responsibility, of talking about feelings, you have to ask yourself, how's that changing the way my partner sees me?
35:51 Ed Mylett? Very true. By the way, the best apology is a not repeated behavior.
35:55 Speaker 02 Yes.
35:55 Ed Mylett? Right? Like, the best apology is don't do it again. I gotta tell you, here's a biggie for me. And again, this isn't my space, but I coach people. People are usually in relationships. It's staying curious about the other person. Not just love or belief, being curious. One of the great things when you're new with somebody, everything's new. Well, how did you grow up? What are your parents like? What are your goals and dreams? And you you're curious about them. And the longer you're with somebody, you're like, I know them. I know them. And so you're not curious anymore. You only ask, to your point earlier, Jocelyn, the quality of relationships, the quality of the questions. Ask the extra question. How was your day? Well, what was great about it? What did you? And start to get more curious again. It creates this. And by the way, if I'm with you and you're not curious about me.
36:40 Ed Mylett? It just always happens over time. Then what ends up happening is I I sort of cease to want to grow and evolve and give you something new to be curious about. But when you get curious about another human being, I've done this with my friends too. I stay curious. They begin to think they're more interesting. They begin to want to grow and change and evolve and have more to give when you're you can't be curious once or twice. But the difference in a new relationship and an old one many times is curiosity. Yes. And you can't keep it the same new as you can in the beginning because I do know you now. But humans evolve. They have new thoughts. They read something, something new happened, a new stimulus, their back hurt, whatever, things change. But when you lack curiosity with another person,
37:24 Ed Mylett? it sends a signal to them that growing and changing and evolving and having thoughts and something interesting about them ceases. So it may be your fault they're boring. It may be your fault they're not growing and changing. And just if you could add that curiosity like, and here's how you do it. You walk in a room when they're there. And without them knowing it, watch them for a while. Just take them in. You're so used to just seeing what you see. You don't even see them anymore. You just see what you always see. You ever go away on a long trip and come back? You have more love or appreciation for the person. And so I think if you could just stay curious about someone and add that, it's not easy to add. But it starts with you like,
38:08 Ed Mylett? there's more in there than you know. And the and and the longer it's been you've checked in, there's probably more in there than you think. And so I would just tell you, I think that it's a it's a critical component that can reinvigorate something because eventually if I'm not curious, you're boring. I am boring. What are we doing? And then I say, I don't need much. Make me a sandwich. Let's watch Netflix. I don't eat a lot. But it's because I'm no longer curious. But when you first started dating, you were, you couldn't wait to text. What was your day like? What happened today? What went down? What are you thinking? What was your dad like? What was fourth grade like? Once you have all that historic information about somebody, you got to become curious about the new. The cool thing about a long term relationship is.
38:52 Ed Mylett? Is that now that you have all the historical data, you can really get into who they are now. And they will grow and change and evolve and become more interesting if you're interested. And when you lack interest, they become less interesting. There's no reason to be interesting because you're not interested. So I just want to add that. I just want to add that. It's just, it's a, it's something in my life.
39:12 Speaker 03 Man, I'm so inspired by what you just said.
39:14 Ed Mylett? Thank you.
39:15 Speaker 03 Because you do this so well. You speak to people's greatness. And I just realized that like in the marriage, you stop talking to their greatness and you talk about their deficiencies.
39:27 Ed Mylett? Yeah, so good. That's good, bro.
39:30 Speaker 03 Oh, man, this is such, I've never gotten to this place with someone before, right? Like, I love this. When, like, when we leave here, right? For example, having a conversation with you, it's like, wow, the way Ed saw us. And then it calls me up like, wow, Ed sees my greatness. And then I'm inspired to keep growing and evolving, right? I don't see it as I need, like, I have to change. But do we maintain that same thing for our partner? If I'm speaking to Jocelyn to the greatness, that's way different than if I'm, if I'm criticizing. And I think you can feel that. It's hard to even describe it, but it's way different.
40:11 Speaker 03 I can talk to Jocelyn to the person I know that she is and not diminish her. And it builds her up and she is like, wow, Erin sees me as this partner. More so that Jocelyn really speaks, it's the end of my life and I need to do a better job of doing this to you. But really seeing you for your greatness and speaking to that, that's really that same team mentality.
40:32 Ed Mylett? You know what I love you do? You really look at one another when you speak to one another. That's real love. By the way, one of the best points made in the history of the show.
40:40 Speaker 03 Oh, wow.
40:41 Ed Mylett? It's what you just said. And it's so good because.
40:46 Ed Mylett? We do it with our children and more than we do it with our spouse. But when I've been around buddies of mine, like when their wife's not there and they'll go, bro, my wife's brilliant. My wife is brilliant and they mean it. And then they'll elaborate on it a little bit more. Or like, my wife's so hot, or whatever, or even my female friends, I can think of one that's in the space right now. I love, I could name a bunch, but Jenna Kutcher and Amy Porterfield are both dear, dear friends of mine. And by the way, there's way more of them than this, but the way they speak about their husbands when he's not there. He's so incredible. He's so intelligent. He's so thought provoking. He's so interesting, right? And I, the way Jenna speaks about Drew is just, I just love it, right?
41:26 Ed Mylett? And, and when then you do that in their presence, they want to express and expose more of that part of themselves and they want it to expand. So we don't do it enough in our relationships and you're right, speak to their greatness because there's so much in there. We just, here's the deal. We just start to take each other for granted.
41:43 Speaker 02 Exactly.
41:44 Ed Mylett? We just do, and then over time, the person sort of conforms to the way you do or don't treat them. That's how humans behave. And it's just, it's a tragedy. When two loving people that came together, that had something special, lose curiosity, lose the greatness in one another. To your point, which is much better said.
42:05 Speaker 02 I think if I could, I love that this is all kind of coming together because as we've hit on the difficult conversations throughout this episode, right? We've talked about having the hard conversations or sharing our needs and our feelings that can't consume the entire relationship. There also has to be the times that we just speak life into each other, that we just encourage that. That's why the love account deposits versus withdrawals is really important to think about. When was the last time I just poured into them? I didn't need to make the remark about the dishes. I didn't need to make the remark about, you know, just some thing that actually isn't that important. Especially if I have not doubled down on the positive. If I've not acknowledged them and made them feel seen and that I see their greatness.
42:50 Speaker 02 And so we want to make sure that's really, really clear that the communication can't be only the heavy stuff. That's a part of it. It's also got to be a lot of the good and the love, the appreciation.
42:59 Ed Mylett? So well said. I just think that we, I'm so glad we're doing this right now because I think it's like. It's like, let me know I'm important. Let me know I'm the most important thing in your life. Remind me of that, that I'm important and I'm beautiful or I'm handsome and I'm strong and like, tell me, make me feel it, see me, pay more attention. Just pay more attention. Get curious, there's so much more in her than you're seeing. In the beginning, you probably oversaw it and now you undersee this incredible person in front of you. Pay attention, you'll see it. So anyway, and ladies, same thing. Pay attention. Tell him, tell him, look for his greatness.
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45:58 Ed Mylett? And I'm saying it's the guy 90% of the time. There are certainly women who fit this description as well. It's not fair to the men. So should they at least be able to say, hey babe, can we communicate on a mature, more mature way? Is there like a better way for us to do what we're doing? Is that at least the beginning? I mean, maybe you can't go through all five Rs, or you can't say, this is how I'm feeling right now. I want to express this. They should at least be able to say something as baseline as, hey, we're better than this right here, right? Can we elevate these things we do when we argue with each other? Can we be a little bit more mature? Are you, can we please do that as a team? Is that sort of like, if you gotta speak the language of your partner to some extent, is that the beginning of that journey? Or am I, you gotta basically be able to communicate with these beautiful words?
46:42 Speaker 02 I can go after you. I got some.
46:43 Speaker 03 I just want a simple thing for the men, and I was just like this, you know, when we first got together too, but responsibility activates reciprocity.
46:52 Ed Mylett? Very good. Very good. Very good.
46:55 Speaker 03 So that's it, right? Of all the things we said, five Rs are not.
46:59 Ed Mylett? So if the guy basically goes, look, my bad. If that's how he speaks, my bad. I messed this up. My responsibility. I'm sorry. You're saying different language, same point.
47:10 Speaker 03 You're in the door, right? And so long as it's. Not too general. Hey, my bad. Right? So long as you've thought a little bit about the situation, a little bit about your actions. Hey, my bad. Shouldn't have raised my tone like that. Really take responsibility for that. If, if that's it and your responsibility is not then followed up with, but I only did that because, or anything that just cuts the legs out of it. It's responsibility, period. And then you're in the door and that activates reciprocity. Right? So wherever the conversation devolves from there, it's like you're, you're in the conversation you want to be in. You're on the same team. And so if that's the only thing that many of us men take away, I think that's it.
47:53 Ed Mylett? Very good.
47:54 Speaker 02 Cause I think the distinction is that our apologies aren't lazy or that they're empty. So if we show up and we're just trying to move on past something. So it's kind of a half hearted. All right. Sorry babe. My bad. Like that might work for certain situations, but if it was a heated conflict or there was real emotion or you've been disconnected for a while, it's not going to cut it. Especially I can speak from the female perspective. It's not because it doesn't show me you cared enough to really think about it. I know you think about your profession. I know you think about your clients. I know you think about how I can be a better father. So can you allocate a little bit of time to thinking about how that interaction affected me and why?
48:35 Speaker 02 So if I can't label, I know what I did that impacted you. How would you be able to have faith that I can do different?
48:44 Ed Mylett? What if you're with someone who's not very verbal? Can they do it through another means? Can they do it through their behavior and act of kindness, a gesture, a touch? Is there, is there, is there grace in there where you're both extremely great communicators? You know, what if you're just with somebody who's just not very verbally expressive ever, good or bad? Even when it's good, there's not a lot of I loves yous. This is amazing. There's gotta be a non-verbal way of communicating some of these things, I would think.
49:12 Speaker 02 Of course. I, I think it has to work for the other person too. Right? So that's why a marriage or a long-term partnership requires you to say, what works for my partner? What lands for them? So yeah, you might say, I'm not great with like these elaborate phrases. That's okay. Could I write it? Does it work for my partner to actually just show them that I'm going to be different? But I have to know them because if it's not, then I, all right, I need to get out of my comfort zone. If for them, they need to hear me say the words, then I probably should get better at that.
49:45 Ed Mylett? Very good. No, that's the answer. You two are the experts on this. I certainly am not. I'll tell you what happened the other day with a friend of mine who's going through a tough time with his wife, and I'm actually better friends. I've known the wife longer than I've known him, but we talk. This was my advice to him, and I just want to know your thoughts on it. This isn't in the book. It's just us talking. He regularly threatens the relationship when they argue. And I told him, I said, I think one of the rules is that once you threaten divorce, you have now created a space that didn't exist before that. And so if you're going to threaten divorce, if you're going to bring up splitting up, you better really mean it because you've now opened a door in your relationship that you cannot walk back through the other way. And I told him, I said, bro, do you mean it? He said, no. And I said,
50:28 Ed Mylett? you, you can't continue to drop that in your relationship and think that that doesn't have a permanent impact, in my opinion, permanent. Once you threaten this and you don't mean it, you've opened a door that doesn't exist. That is, that is a no-go zone in the discussion until it really is the truth. Do you agree with that?
50:47 Speaker 02 100% because if you think about it, commitment and security is the foundation of your partnership. So it's going to rattle that. It creates these fractures in the foundation between you two. And it also makes it feel like, okay, if us getting in an argument means you're out, now I'm afraid of conflict. Now I'm afraid that if I bring up my feelings, my needs, you're either going to get defensive or it's going to escalate into a conflict. And what that does is it trains each other, don't bring up stuff to me. And what is that going to do? That's going to erode your connection. That's going to erode being able to talk about the real stuff. Again, communication is about setting each other up for success.
51:29 Speaker 02 So if I can't bring up to you, if we're together, I mean, you've been together for decades. You've probably had to have a lot of conversations about, here's how I'm feeling in this season and here's what I need. If you could never talk about that stuff and it was constantly a fight, now you both shut your mouths. Now you start to see each other in a negative light. Now you're dissatisfied. You're disconnected. So you have to remember that you are either training each other. This is safe. We can talk, we can handle anything, or you're training each other. Don't bring stuff up to me. Just be happy. Conflict's a problem and I'm out if we have hard moments.
52:06 Ed Mylett? You're training someone how to treat you all the time, right? What if someone's listening to this and they're going, we're not even close to what you're describing. When this thing erodes, I'm being treated wrong. And I've gone a long time with letting her do this to me, or him do this to me. So we were now years into a pattern of I tolerate treatment that's less than I'm worthy of. What should they do? That's the hardest question I've asked anyone in an interview in a long time. I don't know, but there's a perfect answer. But what would you say to, just picture some, you know, since you, Jocelyn, you, you're a woman. There's some woman listening to this that says it's been eight years. And you know what? Repeatedly,
52:50 Ed Mylett? when it erodes, he treats me in a way and I, I've let him do it for a long time. So like, it's not, it's not going to change because I fix this in one second. What would I do?
53:01 Speaker 02 One of our
53:01 Ed Mylett? Or he, or in your case, Erin, it could be he with her.
53:04 Speaker 02 One of our favorite phrases is that you don't have to end a marriage to end this version of the marriage. So you have to ask yourself, like, do I want to rebuild this? If that's in my heart and that's what I want, I want this life with this person, but also this version can no longer work moving forward. Then we need to have some, a series of conversations, which are absolutely possible. We see it all the time with couples. It does require the other person being willing to come to the table. Having a take, you know, this is who I am, take it or leave it mindset. How is that compatible with marriage? So if you have a partner that's willing to come to the table and both of you declare
53:47 Speaker 02 You're right, this version can't move forward. We need to draw a line in the sand. We need to both talk about what we are going to do differently, what we each need from each other, what we call, what are our non-negotiables moving forward? And you both are receptive to that, you're committed to it. You can start a new chapter together. There's a famous quote that you will be married two or three times in your lifetime, hopefully with the same person. And so you probably need to declare this chapter is complete. We are going to create a new chapter together and it's going to take some hard conversations, but it's possible.
54:26 Ed Mylett? Right at you, Erin. If I said to you, hey, relationships break up because, what would you say?
54:31 Speaker 03 They don't accept or know that marriage needs to evolve. Even as we listen to all the things you put out there, all the people you talk to, I think we all understand that we as individuals are going to evolve and what that will require of us. But for some reason, we really missed that part in marriage. And I was thinking about your friend too. Many couples get to that hard place where they feel like, I just can't do this anymore, whether it's from more reactionary patterns or like repressing things for a long time. And the main thing is they just didn't reset. They just didn't set the new vision. And you're, I know you love, without a vision, we perish. It's the same for a marriage.
55:14 Speaker 03 And that's the reason that you're married two or three times throughout your life, when it is to the same person. It's because you have to recreate. You have to reset your aim together. Like what's your life going to be like? What do you want to shoot for? What do you want to aim for together? What's going to inspire us? What is God calling us to now? Because it's different. Then you come together and say, well, who do I need to be? Who do I need to evolve to? To be the type of person and the partner to you to achieve that? If that's going to be it, right? And so that's really what rebuilding a marriage takes. And so if you're in a hard season, those that are listening to this, that's how you start the conversation. Look, I've thought a lot about this and I know things have been hard
55:58 Speaker 03 and I'm willing to really see my responsibility in a lot of this. The future I see for us is like this. I mean, what do you see? All right. And you're not those people now, but if you say, I'm willing to do my part to become that, and I want it to be with you. And it's an invitation, right? It does then land on the other person to receive the invitation. And maybe they say to you, and you're gonna have to mourn this, I don't think that sounds like me. And you're like, maybe it's not, right? But that is the conversation you want to have, not this reactive, we're splitting, we're divorced, I'm out, right? It's like, you can feel the difference. I can even maybe,
56:42 Speaker 03 maybe we can complete this marriage, and I can actually leave you with love, because the season that we did create together, right? I can, I can think about the gratitude I have for that. So if you have to complete a marriage, that's how you want to be doing it. But I think to your question, this is really where you want to get to.
56:59 Ed Mylett? By the way, what a great point. We have a vision for ourselves. We have a vision for our business. What's the vision for your relationship? What's the dream? What's the ambition? What's the vision for your family? That's one thing I talk about a lot.
57:10 Speaker 02 And who do you need to become?
57:12 Ed Mylett? And who do you, oh, wow, good point.
57:13 Speaker 02 Because in a marriage, you can't really just stay the same person. Every season is going to require different things from you. So that's why you have to be asking yourself, what does my relationship need from me now? This season of life that we're in, what is my, the relationship need from me? That's that same team mindset again.
57:31 Ed Mylett? Yeah.
57:32 Speaker 02 Rather than, no, this is just who I am. Take it or leave it.
57:36 Ed Mylett? Yeah, I don't think enough people
57:39 Ed Mylett? take pride
57:42 Ed Mylett? in having a wonderful relationship.
57:44 Speaker 02 Yeah.
57:44 Ed Mylett? Meaning, we got a good one, you know, and we're proud of it, and we work on it. And it's something to take, we take pride in, I'm getting better, I'm growing, I accomplished this. But what about the we part? I have this weird philosophy, and you can poke holes in it, because it's way too simplistic. Their, life is not this simple. But I want to ask you about these two things and I'll let you both just take it where you want to. Someone asked me the other day about this stuff and I said, I don't know, I'm not an expert on this stuff at all. But I said, here's two things, I think, couples that pray together and sleep together.
58:12 Speaker 02 Hmm.
58:13 Ed Mylett? Stay together.
58:14 Speaker 02 Yes.
58:14 Ed Mylett? So I believe common vision, if you can, in prayer. Literally pray together. And I also believe physical intimacy is really important. It may evolve over time where you're not doing crazy fun things every single day like you did when you were 25. But you hold hands, you hug, you touch. And other people go, no, because for some people, physical intimacy is not important. Most of my friends that have divorced, either A, they did not pray together and had no shared faith. Or B, their physical intimacy started to go to the side and they became pals. And then really not even very good pals who just sort of shared a house and a couple of kids. Yeah.
58:54 Ed Mylett? And over time, they wanted a spiritual connection that they could share with somebody or a physical connection that they could share with somebody. Am I crazy to think that?
59:02 Speaker 02 Well, let's think about what intimacy means. Ultimately, it's about closeness. And there are many different means for feeling close together. And if you aren't actively putting effort and attention and intention into feeling intimately close, which the two main categories being emotional and physical, there's also of course, like spiritual closeness. Then of course you're going to feel distant. Of course you're going to start to feel like roommates. That's a very common experience that we'll hear from couples, especially as they're together a longer period of time. It's like we're cohabitating, we're managing life together, we're delegating responsibilities. And of course, there is a functional part of your relationship. We want to make sure that we balance that function with fulfillment.
59:47 Speaker 02 Two Fs, right? So what is the fulfillment part? The fulfillment part is we feel close. Our intimacy is a priority. And yeah, we don't maybe feel the same in our intimate life, specifically physical as we did early on, especially when you've been together decades, right? For us, we're coming up on our first decade married. But we don't want to put it on the shelf. We don't want it to be the thing we prioritize last, which is one of the biggest mistakes that couples make. Is they start to almost feel like it's like the relationship's this thing they can put on the back burner. And they start to get complacent. They start to almost be like, you're like an obvious object in the room. Like, oh, there you are again. Rather than our relationship is a living, breathing
1:00:31 Speaker 02 relationship that we have to put energy into. That's the hard part. You can't get complacent. You can get comfortable. That's different. You're going to feel comfortable in your relationship. I would hope so the longer that you're together. But complacency is kind of sitting back and like, I got you. Rather than, no, I want this person to continue to want me to thrive in this relationship for us to feel fulfilled, which requires that effort, that engagement, that.
1:00:59 Ed Mylett? Very good. I'll say something to the guys real quick. Men that are in a relationship, boyfriend, girlfriend, or husband and wife. If it was your daughter who is married to a guy exactly like you, the way you behave, think, talk, and act, and you knew every single real detail, would you be thrilled your daughter was married to that man?
1:01:20 Speaker 02 So good.
1:01:21 Ed Mylett? Would you want it better? And the reverse, ladies, if it was your son that was married to a woman exactly like you, your thoughts, words, behaviors, and actions, would you be thrilled that that's who your husband got to spend his life with? And then from there, it kind of gives you a barometer. And even if you don't have children, pretend you do when you ask yourself that question.
1:01:43 Speaker 01 This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. Good times mean competitions between you and your friends, like seeing who can throw some pigskin the farthest or rush the field the fastest. Winner gets an ultra. Because it's not just a superior light beer, it's also giving fans superior access to their favorite sporting events. Superior is worth playing for. Visit michelobultra.com/superioraccess to enter. Enjoy responsibly. Copyright 2026 Anheuser Busch InBev Michelob Ultra Beer, St. Louis, Missouri.
1:02:13 Ed Mylett? Let's talk about some practices for a second.
1:02:14 Speaker 02 Sure.
1:02:15 Ed Mylett? You guys walked in and I came downstairs. There's a feeling around the two of you that's genuine about your work. You, you really love one another and you express it well. I'm sure behind the scenes, there's disagreements, like what you've described and, and, and, and the, and the tools to do it.
1:02:32 Speaker 02 Yeah.
1:02:33 Ed Mylett? But there's a realness to your relationship. You can feel it when you're with each other. You lean towards one another on nonverbal communication, all of it. Are there a couple of practices that you do on a regular basis that have strengthened the marriage that someone could adopt? Whether it's a date night or something like that. Aaron, I'll let you start with that. Anything that comes to mind, something you do regularly?
1:02:52 Speaker 03 Yeah, the simple one, which you can just do within a couple of minutes. It's, I really don't want to assume I know how loving, connected Jocelyn feels. And it's a hard question to, to pose, cause depending on the answer, but if I say,
1:03:10 Speaker 03 I just want to check in with you, where's your love account at? Right? So this love account is just a measure of how loving and connected she feels. And maybe you measure it from one to 10. Because otherwise I'm just assuming, right? And I'm largely thinking of how my day is going and our daughter and getting off to school and, you know, doing our marriage business and writing this new book. And, you know, we do largely think about what I'm doing and I generally think I've probably been good. But, but if I think that Jocelyn's at like an eight, when really she's at a four, because something I said that was unintentional, really took away from her love account. I want to be able to address that as, as early as possible and not even say that I'm wrong.
1:03:51 Speaker 03 But okay, let me make sure that I then go forward with more love account deposits. Let me pay attention to, I'm going to be sure I reduce places that could be a withdraw from you.
1:04:04 Speaker 03 And so, yeah, again, I know that we do this work a lot. So those listeners might think, well, I wouldn't say it like that, but just simply, hey, where's your love account at? And just be willing to hear what that number is, if it's a four, if it's a eight. And then, hey, you know, what could I do to increase that a little bit more this week for you?
1:04:20 Speaker 02 And that question is really just about checking in with each other, right? Your, the quality of your conversation is going to be the quality of your questions. So if you're just asking like, how was your day, babe?
1:04:30 Ed Mylett? Gosh.
1:04:31 Speaker 02 How that meeting go? It's like, sure, you're gonna. Talk a little bit, but if you want intimacy, which again is closeness, you've got to ask better, more intentional questions, that being one of them. So to your point, we check in very often. That question multiple times a week, organically, you know? And it's not like this, sit down, let's have this cereal. It's a light, we're cooking dinner. Hey babe, where's your love account at? Driving. It's just a check in because it has us be more conscious and aware. Okay, noted. I'm going to focus on more love deposits for you. So those check ins are very, very helpful to prevent conflict.
1:05:06 Ed Mylett? What would Erin do to make a love deposit? I'm just curious, like, what's that look like in your case? So someone's listening, go, okay, that's what they mean.
1:05:12 Speaker 02 So and to really add more language, the deposits are the things that make you feel more loved and connected. Right? Just like a bank account. That's the analogy that we like to use.
1:05:19 Ed Mylett? Yeah, I love it.
1:05:19 Speaker 02 A withdrawal are things that pull away from that. So everyone-
1:05:23 Ed Mylett? Wow, that's just awesome right there on its own.
1:05:25 Speaker 02 It's just a good way to conceptualize love, right? Otherwise, it can feel very intangible. Everyone is very different, like what deposits move the needle for them. That's why you want to even ask your partner after this podcast, what are the most meaningful deposits to your love account? And also, what are the biggest withdrawals? So those are two follow up questions I'd recommend everyone ask.
1:05:45 Speaker 03 I can give something specific because we were traveling here, right? To come be with you, which is amazing. We live in Arizona.
1:05:50 Ed Mylett? It is amazing. Thank you.
1:05:51 Speaker 03 So just starting to pay attention, I knew that adding to her love account was going to be beneficial, even for coming here for this conversation, you know, our energy together. So it's simple things, you know, she had a carry on bag.
1:06:03 Ed Mylett? Yep.
1:06:04 Speaker 03 And I noticed that I could grab it. She didn't ask me, so I grabbed the bag. I also know that she needs to stay hydrated all the time.
1:06:13 Speaker 02 I want my water by me.
1:06:13 Speaker 03 So when she asked, like, hey, can you fill up my water bottle? I'm like, it already is.
1:06:18 Speaker 02 And when he said it's already full, to me, it honestly made me feel like he pays attention. He thinks about me. That is what we need to maintain in a relationship. That complacency, again, it can sneak in like they got it. They can get their own water rather than just that little thing. It doesn't have to be huge things. Of course, there can be peak moments, you know, where we I planned a really epic 40th birthday.
1:06:44 Ed Mylett? Yeah, you did.
1:06:44 Speaker 02 For him. I mean, it went all out, right? And I'm sure that was a huge love deposit, but you're not doing that every week. Right? The grand gestures, a really extravagant date night, a really big trip. Those are few and far between. And so it's really about the love deposits that you can make in your daily interactions. You're in the kitchen anyway. Touch them. You're making dinner. Graze their back.
1:07:09 Ed Mylett? Yeah.
1:07:09 Speaker 02 You're in the bathroom instead of just walking by them to go to the bed. Kiss them, pull them in, hug them for a second. It doesn't take long. That's the mindset people have to kind of get past is this, how long it takes? How much? I'm busy. I don't have that much time. You might not. Does it take a lot to just make those small gestures when you're interacting anyway?
1:07:31 Ed Mylett? Yeah.
1:07:32 Speaker 03 Can I share one more thing?
1:07:34 Ed Mylett? Please.
1:07:34 Speaker 03 It's so great to like reflect on my birthday because what you're saying is so spot on. We were in this place in California, a lot like your place, like cliffside on the ocean. And all of it was so amazing. When I really think about what impacted me the most, like what was the deep deposit? And even we had a chef. We even had a private chef.
1:07:53 Ed Mylett? Very good.
1:07:53 Speaker 03 You know, like out here on the patio and we were with really good friends of ours. And that conversation at the table could have been, hey, how are things going? These are close friends of ours. But Jocelyn paused everyone and said, I'd like to go around the table and just have everyone share, what does Aaron Freeman being in your life mean to you? And I think I'll always remember that. Yes, the table and the doors open to the ocean side, but
1:08:19 Ed Mylett? Absolutely.
1:08:19 Speaker 03 The fact that that conversation was completely different. And it could have been, nothing was wrong with it. It could have been a good time. We laugh with friends, but the fact that she redirected it that way was so meaningful to me.
1:08:31 Ed Mylett? Yeah, she loves you so much. She wanted you to feel that love. That's a great part, bro. Do you, uh, by the way, I'm just thinking about myself too. It's like the, the duration, shrinking the duration in between these check-ins and deposits is, is critical. Sometimes you're like, it's been three months and I haven't, you know, so I'm thinking of all the things that I'm not good at, which is a couple of things you've already said here today, but it's shrinking the duration. My friends that are in the Mormon church, one of the things I love that they do, they have a thing called family home evening in their church, as part of the church. And what they do is they, it's a thing they do every week and they meet as a family. I think they go through scripture, they talk about their goals, what's going on in their life in the weekend. In the book, I believe you talk about having a family meeting every single week.
1:09:16 Ed Mylett? We didn't do that when my kids were growing up, but when I read it, I'm like, that would be cool right there. And I'm just wondering if that's also one of the formulas.
1:09:24 Speaker 02 That's what we call our check-in, right? So we will do these organic, like I said, we're just driving. So we ask each other that love account question, but one thing that really helped in the beginning when we are working on our communication. So for a lot of people who are listening where they're like, we're just kind of really starting to improve our communication. Then you're going to want more structure to it, right? Cause you want to create that safety with each other. So having a time every week, schedule it. Is it Sundays over coffee together and your kids are running around, but you're able to still check in? Is it on a walk? Again, it doesn't have to be this hour long, heavy sit down. Make it a part of your Sunday brunch. And so it's an intentional time that you're checking in on a few things.
1:10:05 Speaker 02 This is what we find for couples, especially those who are busy, which everyone can relate to.
1:10:10 Ed Mylett? Sure, right now.
1:10:12 Speaker 02 Number one, you're checking on the love account. That's absolutely a question because that's, that's really what it's all about, right? Your marriage anyway is like, how loved and connected do we feel? So that is a really important question. Then there's of course the logistic check-in. Are we on the same page of what our week looks like? Cause what can happen, these are just little things that can cause unnecessary conflict. You don't talk about your week. One of you wakes up, it's like, hey babe, I gotta go early for that meeting. The other person's like, I thought you were taking the kids to school. Unnecessary conflict. So there's even just like a logistical check in.
1:10:42 Ed Mylett? Shoot, yeah.
1:10:43 Speaker 02 And so you're hitting on the emotional and the logistical. And so everyone can kind of come up with their own questions. We also have a whole family meeting guide if they want to use more of our structure. But we would recommend everyone listening to start to have an intentional time that you check in. Every other area of your life that you value professionally. Again, if you really care about a certain hobby or a sport.
1:11:04 Ed Mylett? True.
1:11:04 Speaker 02 Your kids, you know, like we just had our parent teacher conference. It's a check in.
1:11:08 Ed Mylett? Yep.
1:11:08 Speaker 02 Are we need to connect with our teacher. Why would you think it's weird to have a check in with?
1:11:12 Ed Mylett? I don't know why. And it's strange. You'd never run a business by not having your once a week board meeting or collective meeting with your sales team. And like, yeah, you go through your, I think it's just because we see each other all the time.
1:11:21 Speaker 02 Right.
1:11:21 Ed Mylett? And we don't, we don't create these structures. Is there a, um, let's go to some hard stuff just for a second here.
1:11:30 Ed Mylett? When something changes dynamic wise is when I see relationships get stressed. So meaning, um, you didn't have children, now you do. For a lot of people listening to my show, it's also you had children in your home and they've left and that dynamic changes. Or maybe it's that you're in a boyfriend girlfriend relationship and one of them had a job and now they're unemployed. Or they've, or they've switched careers that changes their schedule now. Change really shakes up relationships when the pattern is no longer there. Right? And you've gone through that type of a season where you didn't have babies, then you did. You went through the chime with a financial challenge. So I'll just call that the challenge time, the change time in a relationship. What would you tell us about that?
1:12:15 Speaker 02 Those circumstances that you face as a couple, which there's going to be many that we call plot twists, right? You didn't even anticipate it to go that way or for it to be as hard as it was. That's going to, in a sense, like put just stress on the relationship, thinking again about the, the foundation. I think it's really helpful to have that visual, right of the structure. It's, it's just kind of putting stress on that structure of your partnership. So what it does is it ultimately tests your ability to adapt as a couple. And so we don't like adapt really means can we recognize what we're going through as a team? And same question as we mentioned earlier, what does our relationship need from us now?
1:12:56 Speaker 02 It's when people stay rigid or inflexible and they don't change their ways to the season that they're currently in. So it's currently, okay, we have a baby. The way we operate now has to be totally different than it was. We aren't going to get weekly date night for a while. So we can't say, well, we can never connect because we can't get date night. No, all right, we could have coffee together while we're holding our baby and just and actually have a check in with each other. So it's about how we're going to connect is going to look different, but we need to adapt. Same thing. Let's say we're going through financial stress. When we did that, that was a plot twist. We didn't expect. How are we going to adapt to this? All right. Well, you know what? I know he's under a lot of stress
1:13:40 Speaker 02 and pressure right now. So I'm not going to voice every little grievance that I have because I know he's thinking about bigger things. Right? That's me adapting. I don't need to bring up that little thing that I might bring up otherwise if things are fine between us because he's he's handling bigger stuff right now and vice versa. We do that to each other. So you have to ask yourself, do I adapt to the season? Do I think about what the relationship needs from us now?
1:14:07 Ed Mylett? Gosh, this is really good. I'm telling you guys, there's people listening to this right now go, I got I'm in a good one. We got a good relationship. And three years from now, they find out it wasn't as good as they thought. I've had so many friends be blindsided by the deterioration of their marriage or their relationship. And it didn't begin to deteriorate. Once they realized it, it deteriorated before when they didn't know it. Only one of them knew it. Or maybe neither one of them even knew it. It just started to go. What is a red flag, so to speak, that maybe things aren't as perfect and copacetic as you think? Is there anything that you can think of that with the work you do with all the counseling you do, that you see as a common thing that's a red flag?
1:14:51 Speaker 02 There yeah, there's so many.
1:14:52 Speaker 03 Well, one of the common terms in relationship in the marriage space, right, is the harsh start. So What's that mean? I don't know what that means. So it's that if I just bring up a seemingly simple conversation and I immediately get this like zero to sixty response, like there's immediate defensiveness. Okay. There's like almost an attack on me or it's, hey, I was actually just asking a question, but you just like attacked me back. So it's that you have these really fast startups into conflict. I would say definitely that is a key red flag because as we've already talked about, it's not the topic, it's not really a subject. It's like, whoa, this was really a simple conversation. I approached it curious.
1:15:35 Speaker 03 My emotion wasn't high, but if you continue to push on that, you shouldn't have reacted that way. Now you're in the conflict cycle. So you gotta see that coming and say, wait a second. There must be something that one of us either hasn't identified or hasn't revealed. And so that I think is a key flag to, there's definitely something else we gotta talk about here. Josh, then you were saying there's a lot. What are some others?
1:15:58 Speaker 02 I mean, there's many, but I'll try to stick, like dive into one. So we've reached the age now where fifty percent of the couples we know have already gotten divorced or are. And there's of course, different nuances to why many of them are parting ways, but one of the themes that I noticed from them is that they let seeds grow into weeds. So that's a phrase I use to describe those little things that you hold in. I'm not feeling connected, but I'm gonna hold it in because I know my partner's stressed. They got a lot in their place. I'm gonna hold it in, hold it in, hold it in. But again, remember those things that we're holding in change the way we see our partner and how we respond to them, how we communicate to them. And then that they're gonna respond a certain way back. And so the opposite is true.
1:16:43 Speaker 02 If we can openly communicate with each other because we create a safe space, we do things like the check-ins. We're conscious of those fears and those triggers that we talked about earlier. And so we're actually able to hear each other, hear the feeling, hear the need. We don't have to hold things in. That is one of the biggest things that deteriorates a partnership is that those little seeds grow into a weed. That's resentment. That's I don't even see the positive in you anymore. I see the negative and those weeds feel a lot harder to clean up. It's 100% still possible too. Like that's where a lot of couples can in a sense, you know, end one chapter and start a new one, but you don't want to get those weeds. So as you can see, the common thread from a lot of our conversation is
1:17:28 Speaker 02 creating that space to openly communicate with each other and it's not always a fight.
1:17:32 Ed Mylett? Yeah.
1:17:33 Speaker 02 You need to be able to share your honest feelings and needs with each other in a way that isn't hurtful and in a way that isn't always a fight. That's one of the biggest things. So that's a huge red flag.
1:17:45 Speaker 03 I have one invitation for men, actually.
1:17:47 Ed Mylett? Yeah.
1:17:47 Speaker 03 Cause this is the interesting part. Many men that I talk to, I would imagine the same for you. They say, I don't need much.
1:17:55 Ed Mylett? Yeah, yes.
1:17:56 Speaker 03 And for some it's true.
1:17:57 Ed Mylett? Yeah.
1:17:57 Speaker 03 For some it's hey, if I.
1:17:59 Ed Mylett? I'm laughing because I actually don't think it's true, but we do say it. I think you're right. Go ahead.
1:18:03 Speaker 03 I, you know, for me, I think there can be less. You know, maybe Jocelyn would say, hey, there's a few more things I feel like I need. I might say there's less for me. Doesn't mean they're not deeply important. But I will hear that sometimes where men say, well, I don't need much. And it's like, that could be true.
1:18:22 Ed Mylett? Yep.
1:18:23 Speaker 03 But if we watch your reactions and you react really harshly to simple questions, my guess is there is something else that you need.
1:18:31 Ed Mylett? Mm hmm.
1:18:32 Speaker 03 So I just would want some men to be able to reflect on that. Because if you say, I don't need much and you're saying it like very disheartened and you're saying it very resentful, it's like, well, okay, it may not be a few things, but there's something you really need to identify and bring up.
1:18:47 Ed Mylett? Yes. Okay. Last question. Of all the stuff we've talked about, I want you to sell us on how great a marriage can be.
1:18:55 Speaker 02 Okay.
1:18:56 Ed Mylett? Okay. So like we've talked about the hard times and the arguments and the conflict and how to come through it, how to improve it, techniques, our weekly check in. We've covered a lot, which I knew I would with you guys. I'm so grateful you came. But now let's just step back. Tell us what the dream can look like.
1:19:10 Speaker 02 Yes.
1:19:10 Ed Mylett? What can it, what's, what's a good one, a great one look like? And why is it so amazing? Maybe we just all need to be reminded of why we did this thing in the first place.
1:19:18 Speaker 03 Let me add a frame.
1:19:19 Speaker 02 Yes, please.
1:19:21 Speaker 03 And I think I heard this from Jordan Peterson. So give that credit.
1:19:24 Ed Mylett? Okay, I love that you do that.
1:19:25 Speaker 03 Yeah. It's that life by itself is worth it because the things you go through are both rewarding and challenging.
1:19:39 Ed Mylett? That's great.
1:19:40 Speaker 03 And on top of that, would you rather do that on your own or with someone that 100% has your back?
1:19:48 Ed Mylett? That's good.
1:19:49 Speaker 02 And for me, it's interesting. We haven't hit on this, but it'll, it kind of frames my answer. So we had very different upbringings. His parents are still married five decades in. My parents went through a very tumultuous divorce, not a friendly divorce, very tumultuous. And so now being a parent, I am 100% convicted to being able to gift my daughter, seeing not just a healthy partnership, a happy one, to be a cycle breaker. And that's the responsibility that we have, whether you have children or you don't, is to pave a better path for the next generations. And especially for those who are parents who are listening, that is a responsibility I want to call you into, is that you have a responsibility to show
1:20:32 Speaker 02 them a happy and a healthy partnership. And so like Aaron said, we're, we're building a life. I want to build a life with him. There, a couple of days ago, we had an argument. In that moment, he kind of pissed me off, right? But that doesn't threaten that we're building a great life together, that I can't wait to look back in a few decades and be like, can you believe what we did? And really respect and admire who we have each become. So marriage, it is a self-development journey. It does call you forward to grow, to develop, to confront parts of yourself. And personally, we love self-development. We want to grow and marriage is a great invitation for that.
1:21:12 Ed Mylett? You two are exceptional.
1:21:13 Speaker 02 Oh, thank you.
1:21:14 Ed Mylett? I knew it before. And then we kind of had a difficult conflict with scheduling, which was our fault. And I'm just really grateful that it worked out how it did, when it did and where it did. Yes. And this was an extraordinary conversation. Like really, I want to thank you for today. Helped me and I know you helped millions of people. So thank you for making the journey out here today.
1:21:35 Speaker 02 And this is a dream come true. I think for everyone listening, because there's probably a lot of people listening who their dream is to meet you, maybe even for some of them beyond the podcast. And we've been that listener for years, hearing and being like, one day we'll be on that show.
1:21:47 Ed Mylett? Yeah.
1:21:48 Speaker 02 And so you talk a lot about that, like just having that belief in your vision and your future and continuing to strive for. I've watched your motivational, you know, speeches even. And so to me, this is such an amazing moment of like hearing you mentor in the ear. And now we're here with you.
1:22:04 Ed Mylett? Beautiful. Well, one of the things I love about doing this show is I do keep that seat open for exceptional people who not maybe everyone in the world knows. For a while, we took the show in the direction where everyone was a celebrity, everyone was this. And those conversations are good. Some of them are great. But this is the stuff that changes people's lives. And you just literally today, there are people that are going to get married that weren't. There are families that are going to stay together. There are marriages that we're going to break that won't. There's ones that were just so, so they're going to get great. And more than anything is what you said at the end, so many of these parents can now begin to model an exceptional, loving, beautiful relationship together. I'm really grateful for today. This was my honor, certainly not yours. So guys, their book is The Argument Hangover. They're going to have another one coming out soon. But I got to just tell you something. If you could follow their work, where are you on Instagram?
1:22:49 Ed Mylett? Where do they follow you on Instagram?
1:22:50 Speaker 02 Meet the Freemans. And that's also our website, our URL, Meet the Freemans.
1:22:54 Ed Mylett? Okay. So that was Jocelyn and Erin Freeman, you guys. They're exceptional. I think you're going to share today's episode. Share it with your significant other. That's the place to start. All right. God bless you. Max out.
1:23:05 Ed Mylett? This is the Ed and Myron Show.
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