John Maxwell on High Road Leadership

Unlock the Secrets to High-Road Leadership with John Maxwell! This week, I'm honored to sit down, AGAIN, with the legendary John Maxwell, a titan in the world of leadership and personal development. We're diving into groundbreaking insights from his latest book, "High Road Leadership," and discussing what it truly means to LEAD without keeping score. In this power-packed episode, we explore the transformative principles of leadership that can elevate every aspect of your life. From the unique joys and challenges of building my island retreat—complete with a golf course, horses, and a saloon—to the profound lessons on selfless leadership, this conversation is filled with invaluable wisdom and more including: Selfless Leadership: Learn why true leaders don’t keep score and how this mindset can transform your relationships. Building Legacy: Discover the importance of creating spaces and experiences that reflect your values and passions. Hope Island (behind the scenes): Get behind-the-scenes stories about my journey developing Hope Island and my personal journey of building this sanctuary. Transformational Principles: Understand the core principles of high-road leadership and how to implement them in your own life. John shares a powerful story about the toxicity of transactional relationships and the freedom that comes from leading with heart and integrity. This episode is a game-changer for anyone striving to be a better leader, partner, or friend. Join us for this intimate and candid conversation that’s sure to inspire you to elevate your leadership game and live with greater purpose and passion. Don’t miss out on these transformative insights from one of the greatest leadership minds of our time! Ready to max out your potential? Listen NOW and share this episode with anyone who needs a dose of high-road leadership! Let’s go!🔥 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Ed Mylett?

  So hey guys, listen, we're all trying to get more productive. And the question is, how do you find a way to get an edge? I'm a big believer that if you're getting mentoring or you're in an environment that causes growth, a growth-based environment, that you're much more likely to grow and you're going to grow faster. And that's why I love Growth Day. Growth Day is an app that my friend Brendan Burchard has created that I'm a big fan of. Write this down, growthday.com/ed. So if you want to be more productive, by the way, he's asked me, I post videos in there every single Monday that gets your day off to the right start. He's got about $5,000, $10,000 worth of courses that are in there that come with the app. Also, some of the top influencers in the world are all posting content in there on a regular basis, like having the Avengers of personal development and business in one app. And I'm honored that he asked me to be a part of it as well and contribute on a weekly basis, and I do.

• 0:45Ed Mylett?

  So go over there and get signed up. You're going to get a free, tuition-free voucher to go to an event with Brendan and myself and a bunch of other influencers as well. So you get a free event out of it also. So go to growthday.com/ed. That's growthday.com/ed. I hear so many small business owners say the exact same thing. They just never have enough time in the day. Well, I measure time differently. I've compressed, condensed, heck, I've bent time. My first day is 6:00 AM to noon. My second day starts at noon and goes till 6:00 PM. And my third day, 6:00 PM to midnight. I now get 21 days a week. Stack that up over a month, over a year, over five years, and my life's completely different than it would have been otherwise. And if you want to win as an entrepreneur, you have to compress your time too.

• 1:30Ed Mylett?

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• 2:04Speaker 01

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• 2:38Speaker 02

  This is the Ed Meyer Show.

• 2:42Ed Mylett?

  Welcome back to the show, everybody. So today I have a man here who he's trying to become an author evidently. He's, he's, uh, he's decided he wants to be an author. He's, uh, he's creeping up on doing pretty well. He's only sold, he's coming up on 35 million books sold. He is identified by most people who know what they're talking about as the foremost expert on leadership in the world on business. But for me, on a personal note, he's my hero in this space and I'm so honored. You know, the word mentor is so overused, but he's truly a mentor to me. And it makes me emotional just to tell you that it's awesome in life when you look up to somebody so much.

• 3:25Ed Mylett?

  And then when you get to know them, not only do they meet your expectations, they exceed them. And this man exceeds them in ways that were beyond my imagination. And I truly love him and I admire him. And most decisions I make in my life, I think, what would John do? And so that John is John Maxwell. He's got an incredible new book out called High Road Leadership that I read cover to cover here in a day and a half, but I had talked to him about it as well. And that the subtitle is bringing people together in a world that divides. And that could not be more true in these times. So I love you, John Maxwell. Welcome back to the show.

• 4:00John Maxwell?

  Oh gosh, Ed, I love you so much. And it, everything you say, it's just mutual. It's mutual. You know, in great relationships, Ed, I found that when you, when you're in a great relationship, you're always looking and say, I've got to add more value to that person because they're adding so much value to me. I never can catch up with the other person on how much they're helping me. So you're just heaping and doing everything you possibly can. And I feel that way with you. I feel every time I'm with you.

• 4:26John Maxwell?

  My thirst is quenched and my questions are answered. And I'm just at peace because I know I'm with a real friend, a person that really does care for me and love me unconditionally. And what you have done for me and what you do for millions of people, you know, Ed, is just amazing. So anytime I'm with you, I'm very grateful to God. You know, at 77, you really take relationships in a very, very personal way, in a very important way. Because my time is limited, so I gotta figure out who I'm gonna spend my time with you. And you're right at the top of the list, every time, every time. If Ed Mallett is in there, I'm saying, whatever it is, Ed, you want, I'm there.

• 5:11Ed Mylett?

  Thank you. And I think you have a long time left. This man sleeps five hours a night, you guys, and I just spent a few days with him on a trip. And I couldn't keep up with him from an energy standpoint. And I'm not saying that to be nice. Like, I literally can't keep up with him from an energy standpoint. Okay, so let's talk about some high road leadership here today and help people as we do every time you're on, and all of your books do. I read the book, and I'll just be honest with you. I think of you when I'm reading the things in this book. You embody high road leadership to me. But you say something in the beginning of the book that I want to ask you about. You say, you know, you basically set the premise in the beginning of the book, like, we're in a really difficult time right now on this stuff. Like, you kind of define reality a little bit, like, there's not a lot of high road leadership,

• 5:56Ed Mylett?

  at least politically in the world that you see right now. I'm just curious, why now on this book? And I don't usually ask you that on most of your books, but this has a time. You wrote this for this time for a reason.

• 6:09John Maxwell?

  Yeah, I did. In fact, you know, it's interesting backstory as we pull back the curtains, Ed. I had written a book on how to receive a return on failure, okay? And the book's, I mean, the manuscript's done. And all of a sudden, I looked at the time, we're going into, I think, what is going to be a very difficult political year. I think, I think we're going to be jerked around, okay? And I'm not, I, please, all of our people that are part of the podcast, just relax. I, I, I'm not Republican, I'm not Democrat, I'm just, I'm just leadership sad. Because I don't think, in our country, we are getting the leaders that we deserve. And I don't think that we have the quality of leaders that I want my children and grandchildren

• 6:51John Maxwell?

  to see and be a part of. And so, I held the manuscript on how to receive a return on failure, and I said, I've got to write this book for such a time as this. And here's the reason. Think about it, Ed. Go back and think about books that really impacted your life. Now, I do this a lot. I'm a reflector. And in fact, in my office, right behind me, in my, right in the, right behind me, on the right side, I have two shelves of not a lot of books. I've got to say, 50 books, maybe, that I've read in my lifetime, that I can point to that book and say, "That changed my life." That, that gave, that, that, that took me to a whole new level. And so, I go back, and I look at those books quite often, because they, they

• 7:34John Maxwell?

  were such a part of my life. Here's what I discover. When I go back to them now, I look at them, and I smile, because I remember when I read them. But what made them so important to me was the timing of when I read the book. What the book said met the timing of what I needed to hear. And that's what makes a book unforgettable. The book has content that can change your life, but you're ready to have your life changed at the time you read the content. It's kind of like, what's it saying, when, when, when the, when the student appears, you know, so will the teacher, you know, it's, it's kind of like that. And so, when I think of High Road Leadership, I thought, I need to write the book right now, because here's what I know.

• 8:20John Maxwell?

  Everybody seems to feel and sense that we're not living up to our leadership privileges. And everybody knows that something's not right and we are divided. We're not the United States of America. We're the divided states of America now. We're described as red or blue. And that's not, that's, democracy doesn't work good in that kind of an environment. Never has. It, democracy isn't built for that kind of environment. And so I, I wrote the book to kind of help us look at ourselves. Doesn't matter whether in politics, good Lord. It, it matters for me because I want to be a high road leader. And here's what I know. To help people make change, one of the most important things to do, because I'm a change agent, you're a change agent. You have to give them a picture of what it looks like.

• 9:04John Maxwell?

  You, you can't ask for change. You have to show change. You have to show a picture where a person says, oh, I got it. If I'm a high road leader, this is what I'll look like. And by the way, this will be one of my characteristics. So I, in the book, put 12 characteristics of what a high road leader looks like, which is each chapter. And basically it's a picture book. In fact, for my children and for my grandchildren, I sat down the other day, I have five grandchildren. And I said, I'm going to take you through each chapter of this book. Because my grandchildren, they're starting at age 23 down to, what, 17 now. But they really haven't seen much high road leadership. And, and, and if you haven't seen it, you don't know how to be it.

• 9:46John Maxwell?

  And, and so the first, the first prerequisite, Ed, of bringing change is awareness. The moment that I'm aware, I can change. But you can't, you can't fix what you don't know. And so this is kind of like a picture book of awareness. This is what we should like as leaders. Now let's go for it. Let's, let's, let's make the choices that we need to make to, to be a high road leader. Does that make sense?

• 10:10Ed Mylett?

  It does. And I got a hard question for you about that because there's so many things. There's, there's bring people together. There's acknowledge your humanness.

• 10:16John Maxwell?

  Yes.

• 10:17Ed Mylett?

  Do the right thing for the right reasons. I want to ask you the hard one. Because this is, by the way, everybody, the book is not about politics at all. It's about leadership and business and family and in life. But obviously it's born out of our culture today. I was just literally watching something right before you and I started. And someone was being interviewed. One guy was on the left, one guy was on the right. And they kept asking each of them about their candidate. Neither one of them would speak about their own candidate. I literally just watched this. They were just trashing the other guy. Like, they would not even, one guy wouldn't even say the name of his candidate. I'm like, my gosh, acknowledge the guy exists. It was all this guy's that, he voted for this, he did that, he's got this mental issue, he's got, he's a criminal.

• 10:57Ed Mylett?

  It was just unbelievable to watch these two. Now, having said that, I think the root of it is valuing people. I think you have to value people, and that's the second chapter of the book. How do you, how do you value somebody, it's a hard question, that you disagree with? Or that might even have a lifestyle, for whatever reason, you don't agree with. How does one? What's the root of that, John? Like, valuing people? Because I think what you just said is true. I was raised to value people of every walk of life, of every economic status. But I think there's a lot of people that have not been raised the last 20 years that way. So how do we value somebody maybe that we disagree with?

• 11:37John Maxwell?

  Well, first of all, you were raised to value people because they're people.

• 11:44John Maxwell?

  Okay, if it's okay, I'll get a little faith. I won't stay here long, but, but first of all, you have, you have to understand that I'm a person of faith, okay? And the very fact that God created a person is all I need to know about valuing people. If God values you enough to create you, if he values you enough to make you in his image, if he values you enough to give you giftedness that will help you be successful in life, if he values you enough to say, before I created you, I had plans for you. All of that tells me that God values people. So when people say, in fact, I was speaking to a group of leaders and we were doing Q and A,

• 12:28John Maxwell?

  and one of the leaders said, John, you don't even know me, yet you say you value me. And, and I said, I do. And I said, but my answer is a faith answer. I said, I value you because God created you. And if, hey, it's very simple. If God values you. I'm in. I value you too. So that's the root. The root is the fact that, the very fact that God created you means that you are a person of value. It has nothing to do, Ed, with agreeing or disagree. You know, just last week, Margaret and I celebrated our 55th wedding anniversary, okay? Congratulations. And so, and so, but wouldn't it be foolish for somebody says, think about it, for 55 years, they've agreed on everything. Oh, my gosh.

• 13:11John Maxwell?

  We, hey, we have, you know what, we have things in our marriage we don't even talk about. Because we both know that we don't agree. And we both also know that I'm not right and she's wrong, or she's not right and I'm wrong. We just have different perspectives. And we, listen, we value each other enough to respect each other and give each other space to disagree.

• 13:34John Maxwell?

  And it's okay. It's okay. And, and, and, and we are very comfortable loving each other, being together. But we don't have to see eye to eye on everything. We don't have to agree. And so I think, I think when people think of valuing people, they get messed up when they think, well, I don't agree with their lifestyle, or I don't agree with that, that, that political party's persuasion. And I'm looking, I said, well, I don't agree with it either. That has nothing to do with value you as a person. And I think that's the big, valuing people is the big picture. If you don't have the big picture, the picture's never going to look right. And you take our country now, democracy, the reason that democracy works is because of shared thinking.

• 14:17John Maxwell?

  And shared thinking is a result of being, valuing the other person. If you and I are on opposite sides, if I value you, I'm going to say, Ed, I want to hear from you. I want to listen to you. I want you to tell, tell me what you think. And people say that can't be done politically. I say, you're completely wrong. Abraham Lincoln, in the darkest hours of our country, when he formed his cabinet, he put political adversaries on the cabinet because he said, the Civil War is more important than my opinion. And I have got to hear people, hey, what did Winston Churchill do during World War II? In his bunker in London, he put Clement Attlee, his political adversary, who would later beat him out as prime minister, he put him in the same bunker with him.

• 15:01John Maxwell?

  His daughter said, Daddy, why do you have your political enemies in the bunker? And he said, because the World War II is more important than what my opinions are. I've got to get the best from everybody. And the only way you can get the best from everybody is to value everybody. Because the moment I devalue a person, they're not even in the picture. So what happens is, I exclude people that I devalue out of my picture and my perspective. And so therefore, I never have a total well-rounded perspective because I didn't value a person enough to listen to them. Hmm, that is, that's an incredible answer. And, and, but we politically have answers. Winston Churchill did it, Abraham Lincoln did. So when people say, well, we couldn't do it in this day and age.

• 15:46John Maxwell?

  I look and say, oh, yes, I, we, unless I miss it, we don't have a civil war going on right now. We've had a darker day than today. But, but we will never be, we'll never turn the ship around until we value the other person. See, if I, if I don't value you, here's, here's what's so terrible about devaluing people. If I'm devalued, I never get the opportunity to use my gifts as God gave them. Because I was devalued. We, I was classified. I was put aside before I ever had a chance to ever show who I possibly could be to be in the picture to helping other people.

• 16:28John Maxwell?

  So value, my dad, when I graduated from college, and he, we were having dinner that night. And I said, Dad, what's the advice for me, politic, or not politic, as a leader for the rest of my life? And he said, John, three things every day. Value people, believe in people, unconditionally love them. He said, if you'll do those three things, he said, the world will be yours because the world is not valued. The world doesn't have unconditional love in it. And very few people have enough belief to really spread their wings. Do those three things and people will just, they'll, they'll be on your team. They'll want to be on your team. And that, that was advice when I graduated from college and. That's how I speak. That's how I write books. That's how you do it. That's exactly what you do.

• 17:10Ed Mylett?

  Well, you do it. You do it at a different level. I mean, you won't see John speak where he says, he doesn't say, hey, I'm John and I'm your friend. But John even says that to people who scrutinize or criticize him personally. He'll even do that. I'm your friend. It's okay. We disagree. It's okay that you feel a certain way about me. He's, he lives this stuff.

• 17:30Ed Mylett?

  So, hey, guys, I want to jump in here for a second and talk about change and growth. And you know, by the way, it's no secret how people get ahead in life or how they grow. And also taking a look at the future. If you want to change your future, you got to change the things you're doing. If you continue to do the same things, you're probably going to produce the same results. But if you get into a new environment where you're learning new things and you're around other people that are growth oriented, you're much more likely to do that yourself. And that's why I love Growth Day. Write this down for a second. GrowthDay.com/Ed. My friend Brendon Burchard has created the most incredible personal development and business app that I've ever seen in my life. Everything from goal setting software to personal accountability, journaling, courses, thousands of dollars worth of courses in there as well.

• 18:11Ed Mylett?

  I create content in there on Mondays where I contribute, as do a whole bunch of other influencers, like the Avengers of influencers and business minds in there. It's the Netflix for high achievers or people that want to be high achievers. So go check it out. My friend Brendon's made it very affordable, very easy to get involved. Go to GrowthDay.com/Ed. That's GrowthDay.com/Ed. This episode is sponsored by Ro. A lot of people assume GLP-1's cost a fortune and that assumption keeps them from even looking into treatment. Ro helps people find a more affordable path to FDA-approved GLP-1 treatment. Ro wants to help people lose weight. That's why they have more affordable GLP-1 options, whether you're paying with insurance or cash. Ro's free insurance checker makes it easy to see if you're covered for GLP-1 injections.

• 18:55Ed Mylett?

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• 19:39Ed Mylett?

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• 20:22Ed Mylett?

  Head to wayfair.com or shop the Wayfair app for all things home. That's W A Y F A I R dot com.

• 20:32Speaker 04

  Wayfair, every style, every home.

• 20:35Ed Mylett?

  One of the ways, there's so many principles in the book, guys, that as I watch them, there's things in there, I go, you know, I, I now do that well, or I didn't use to. Or there's things in there that I think to myself, I still don't do that very well. And one of the things I wish I saw in more leaders, I'd like you to speak to it because it makes me trust you. First off, it's the right thing to do when I, after I ask you about it. It's the right thing to do, but two, it makes me trust you more. Nothing is less trustworthy to me than someone who's perfect and never acknowledges a mistake. I really appreciate a leader who says, I got this wrong. I'll do better next time. And so, or, or I, I, my intentions were good. I got it wrong. Or you know what? I just made a mistake. That, that to me is somebody that I can trust.

• 21:20Ed Mylett?

  Believe it or not, you think, no, if they make mistakes, I won't trust them. No, it's someone who won't acknowledge them. And so you say, you say in the book, um, I think you call it acknowledging your humanness.

• 21:31John Maxwell?

  Yes.

• 21:32Ed Mylett?

  Teach us a little bit about that as a leader.

• 21:35John Maxwell?

  I love that phrase. Well, first of all, I, I agree with you. Uh, and people, people don't want a perfect leader because first of all, there's no perfect leader. So let's get off that. There's no perfect person. Let's get off that. People don't want a perfect leader, but they do want an authentic one. They want a real leader. They want somebody that does acknowledge their humanness. And what I tell everybody is everyone of us have an ego in us. And boy, we love ego. I mean, I believe I can fly and I'm soaring and I'm going higher than ever gone before. That, that ego within me just makes me better than I could ever imagine. But I only not have an eagle in me. I've got a hippo in me.

• 22:11Ed Mylett?

  Yes, it's great.

• 22:13John Maxwell?

  Uh, let me tell you something, that hippo, that hippo doesn't fly. You know what that hippo wants more than anything else? A mud hole. Just give me an old, stinking mud hole. And hippo will go in that mud hole and stand for hours, just in a mud hole. Well, I have a hippo in me and there are some days I'm not an eagle. There, there are some days I'm not soaring and flying. Oh my gosh, look at John Maxwell. He's such an inspiration. No, there are sometimes I go down to the mud hole. And I'm in that mud hole and I'm stinking and I'm not doing what I need to be doing. And I'm living way beneath my privileges. And let me tell you something. If I don't acknowledge the hippo in me.

• 22:53John Maxwell?

  When I look at other people, I'll never give them grace. I'll never give them forgiveness. I'll never give them understanding. I'll never be there to be in their corner to help them because I'm above all that stuff. You, the, the moment a leader separates himself or herself from the crowd and I'm here and the people are there. I, I, I've lost my connection with the people. And so it's so important. Let me give you an example. The other day I did a, I did a conference. It was a roundtable.

• 23:23John Maxwell?

  And it wasn't a good day, it wasn't my best day. And I taught that day with an edge. And I don't, my name is John and I'm your friend. If I, my name is John and I'm your friend, I don't have an edge, I'm your friend. But that day, I should have stood up and said at the beginning, "My name is John and I have an edge today. And I'm gonna get you." It's just, I'm gonna talk about several subjects, so I'm gonna, I'll, you know, just get ready, I'm gonna get you. And so that day, instead of lifting people like I needed to and like I usually do, I got a little sarcastic, got a little cynical, got a little bit judgmental.

• 24:05John Maxwell?

  Okay. It wasn't enough that everybody was saying, "Dear God, what's wrong with that man?" But it was enough that my inner circle, as soon it was over, pulled me aside and said, "John, you spoke with an edge today."

• 24:21John Maxwell?

  And I said, "Give me 24 hours, I gotta, I gotta go through this now, I gotta go through this." And I went through it. And they were so right, I wept, I was so sorry. And so I called the, I called the leaders of the round table. And I said, "I need to ask your forgiveness, I, I, you brought people to hear me and they didn't hear the best John Maxwell." They, they didn't get the eagle version of Maxwell, they got the hippo version of Maxwell. And I, and I did you wrong. Now, these were friends of mine, so you know what friends do, they mean, "Oh no, it was fine, really, honestly, I don't think anybody..." They started covering for me, because they're friends. I said, "No, no, I can't accept it, no, no, listen to me, I don't want, I have no excuses, I'm wrong.

• 25:06John Maxwell?

  I did this wrong." I said, "Now the question is too, will you forgive me, because I'm so sorry? I, I took advantage of a relationship, I took advantage of influence and I took advantage of you, I'm so sorry, will you forgive me?" And after they forgive me, I said, now, how do we make it right? I gotta make it right. I, I, I can't live with that. I, do you think I can let that book close with, with a given? I said, can I give them a free round table? Can, can you bring them back where I can apologize to all of them? Say, I'm very sorry. My name is John, and that day I was a hippo, and I was in the mud, and I got mud on you. But if you'll give me another chance today, I'll be your friend.

• 25:46Ed Mylett?

  My gosh, are you, that's incredible.

• 25:49John Maxwell?

  Well, it's the right thing to do, Ed. Ed, I let people down. Let me tell you something. If leaders will take the perks of leadership, they better take the price of leadership, too. There's a price to pay when you're a leader. And the price to pay is the fact that when you're wrong, you have to go make it right. And it's, and, and now I feel such joy in my heart when I think of that conference, because I know that I'm making it right. I'm doing the right thing to do. And, and now here's what happens. This is true. I just read this in a study, Ed.

• 26:23John Maxwell?

  When a leader does that, says, I'm sorry, I was wrong, please forgive me. I, wow, I wish I wouldn't have said that, or I wish I made that decision. The moment a, a leader tries to correct and make right what they did wrong, the trust factor of that leader increases more. Don't miss this. It increases more in that leader than if the leader would have done nothing wrong at all and had given them a great seminar. They would have walked away, and they would have had a trust factor, and they would have had a great appreciation factor. But the fact that you go back and say, I was wrong, I'm please sorry, forgive me. That in, in other words, you can do it wrong, but if you do it right, what you did wrong, and fix it and ask forgiveness, the trust factor even becomes greater.

• 27:04Ed Mylett?

  Yes.

• 27:05John Maxwell?

  And I long, I long, I long, I long for leaders of all sizes and shapes. I mean, when's the, when, honestly, when is the last time? We've had a leader just looking at Cameron and say, I'm sorry. I, I didn't do it right. I, wow, I wish I could, I wish I could have that call back. I promise you, the people would migrate to that leader so fast, because they say, now I have a leader that understands. I have a leader that, I, I, I got that hippo. He or she has that hippo. We all have hippos. And when we have a hippo, we gotta, we gotta admit it and get out of the mud. And, and you can't, you can't stay there. Anyway.

• 27:43Ed Mylett?

  That's so good. I, I, by the way, I, I reflect on that all the time. Why does, why is it not? Part of our culture for someone to just go, hey, I got it wrong. And the fact of the matter, by the way, there's a chapter in the book, everybody called be accountable for your actions. And so there's a chapter that fits this in addition to your humanity. Be accountable for your actions. I remember this is a small example, but they stand out because it's so rare. I remember it was college baseball, we're in a very competitive game. We're playing UNLV and we were down by a run in the ninth inning and I was, I had stolen second base. And I remember thinking, well, you know, there's one out here, base hit drives me in and our coach actually called for me to steal third base.

• 28:28Ed Mylett?

  Which is probably not the play at that time. Right. And so there actually ended up being a pitching change in between when he had given me the signal to steal. So it gave me a chance to walk over. I walked over, I said, Coach, are you sure? He goes, Eddie, you got this. This guy can't throw you out. And it's a big, big game for our team. Anyway, pitcher comes back in. I go to steal third and I get thrown out at third base. And this was a coach that I didn't, everybody, this is just a real good leadership lesson. This is a coach that I really had not connected with over a couple of years. Right. Just, it was just okay. And I get thrown out and we lose a game. This guy flies out, the game's over. And after the game, Coach Gads is a team up. He goes, hey, guys, just want to start out by saying one thing, I blew a call today. That wasn't Eddie's fault. That was not my let's fault.

• 29:14Ed Mylett?

  I shouldn't have called a steal there. It's too big of a risky call. It wasn't fair to Eddie to put him in that position. I got it completely wrong. And I remember looking at him, and by the way, I'm 53 years. I remember looking at him going, I'm going to run through a wall for this guy. And if he, I'm going to do anything I can for this leader. And to this day, you guys, he and I have stayed in contact of all my coaches, there's two or three in my entire life. He and I still stay in contact because of that moment where he was accountable for his actions. He acknowledges humanity and I, you'll play, you'll do anything for a leader. You guys run in businesses, when you got an up, when you've made a mistake or things are down, that's an opportunity to increase trust by doing exactly what John's described.

• 29:52John Maxwell?

  That is so good. I was speaking for Johnson and Johnson several years ago and they had what they call Presidents' Day, where they bring in the presidents of other companies that they partner with during the, during the year. And so I was talking to them about this factor and I said to each one, I said, you probably need to go home to your team. And just share with them some of the areas that you feel you're weak in your leadership. And I could feel, oh, you could feel resistance. I mean, these are all present CEOs of companies. And so, in fact, it was kind of tight, and it was kind of time for anyway. So I said, let's take a break. I'll sign some books and kind of breathe a little bit. One CEO stood beside me while I signed books, and when it was done, I turned to him and he said, I really disagree with what you said about letting them know about your weaknesses.

• 30:37John Maxwell?

  And so I listened to him, and when he finished, I said, I understand that. I understand. I said, but there's something you don't understand. I said,

• 30:45John Maxwell?

  you don't realize your people already know your weaknesses. They already know them. They talk about them every day. You do not, you do understand, don't you? That the people on your team talk about your weaknesses all the time because they see it. I said, the reason I said you need to go back and share them with them is to give the team comfort to know, oh, okay, he does know that. He knows he's not real strong in that area. They already know it. I just want you to let them know that you know it because, I said, what really bothers team players is when they think their coach doesn't know. I mean, if I think my leader doesn't know, now I get really nervous because I think, I don't think this is going to end up very well because the leader doesn't see it.

• 31:25John Maxwell?

  I said, the very fact you acknowledge it will then allow them now to not only connect with you, but talk to you about it. And see, that's a big miss. There's a big miss. It's kind of like, oh, I don't think they know that. Oh, trust me, they got you down. They have you all figured out. They know what you do well. And I tell my team all the time, because I'm 77, Ed, I'm not at the beginning of the runway. I tell my team all the time, you have got to talk to me. You have got to talk to me. You, because how many times do I see people stay too long in the game?

• 31:58Ed Mylett?

  Yes.

• 31:59John Maxwell?

  And you, and so if I see people stay too long in the game, what would ever make me think that I'm not going to think I can stay too long? I mean, I'm not that smart. If, a lot of smart people have stayed on too long. And so the only way I know to fix that is to help my team give them permission, walk into my life. Tell me when I was sharp or I had an edge and they do it and they do it really well. And what it does for our camaraderie and what it does for our chemistry. It just, it just works because I know they have my back. They're going to help me.

• 32:34Ed Mylett?

  I watched him do this, by the way, everybody. I sat on a plane with him and I watched him do this with his team. And they do have an unbelievable camaraderie and they are candid with him. The remarkable part of the story you told about the round table is not just that you apologize and wanted to make it right. It's that you've created a culture in your own team where they were comfortable immediately telling you. Hey, you've got an edge here, that, that, that they're not going to be rebuked for candor. And that's often what leaders do. They rebuke candor and then it's never done again. And he's a completely right. I mean, I won't double down on the point, but I can just tell you as a young man in business and I was certainly edgy and that would be, that would be being polite. I was certainly more than edgy and I would never acknowledge it.

• 33:16Ed Mylett?

  And he's a completely right. Years later, I'll meet people that work with me. They talked about it all the time. In fact, it was magnified because I didn't acknowledge it. And if I'd acknowledged that weakness, number one, I think its impact would have been reduced. And number two, maybe I'd have gone to work on it. It almost could have been something all, it maybe even could have turned into something funny like here he goes again. Right? But I didn't do it and it became, uh, it became divisive. It separated me from people rather than connected me with people. And great leaders like John, they connect with people. That's just what they do when you're around them. John has this thing in the book. I wanted to read this to you because it's, it's a, it's, it's, it's a simple thing, but I'd like you to discuss it. I'll give you what you said and then you talk about it.

• 34:00Ed Mylett?

  And it's just accurate. He says, when you're leading people, you need to express your belief in them. I think it's one of the rarest things leaders do. I don't know why, but it's almost like a blind spot for most leaders to say, let me tell you how much I believe in you and why I believe in you. And when you tell somebody something that is, they intuitively know to be true about them. And that you see it, you are bonded to them. You're one of maybe three people in their entire life, if you do that.

• 34:27John Maxwell?

  Yes.

• 34:27Ed Mylett?

  So one is express your belief in them. Two, like John always talks about, equip them. And once you've done those two things, you can do the third thing, which is challenge them. Too many leaders like to challenge before they've poured belief and equipped. So I want you to talk about, I think probably, no, I don't think. I would say more than anyone in my life that you do this tremendously well. I never leave your presence where you haven't told me how much you believe in me. In a sincere way, by the way. I'm not sitting there going, ah, he's doing that thing again. It's sincere. I just want you to express, I think you're the best I've ever met at this.

• 35:03John Maxwell?

  Well, thank you. I, I, well, I do believe in people. I, I, and by the way, that also makes, now you have a candid, let me have another hippo moment with you. That also means that I don't hire people well. Because in fact, I was asked one time, what was my most important business decision in hiring? I says the day I quit hiring people and let somebody else do it. Because I, I, I, my belief in people really is a blind spot in hiring. You know, when somebody's hiring somebody, you kind of need some negative son of a gun over there. That, that look, it's look, just looking for the problem. And I, I don't have that in me. And really, so I, that belief is a wonderful thing, but it also, every strength is a weakness. You know that.

• 35:46John Maxwell?

  So we're having, we're having a little fun with that hippo moment as far as I don't, I don't hire well. But let me just say this. Believing in people doesn't have much strength if it's just words. So when I talk, see people doing word belief, I call it hype. Uh, in other words, okay, how, you know, when, when are we going to put down the pom poms here? I, I, so it, so it has to be, see, real belief in people is backed by behavior.

• 36:18Ed Mylett?

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• 37:02Ed Mylett?

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• 37:45Ed Mylett?

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• 38:20John Maxwell?

  It isn't what I say to you, although saying it is very affirming. I'm not, I'm not saying don't say it. I'm saying you gotta back it up with belief. I have, I have a very good friend that's going through a deep, deep, deep, almost, almost unbelievable, deep valley right now. And he's spent all of his life and he's about to lose just about everything that he spent a long time building. I'm very sad about that. And so I'm, I'm, I'm with him. And, and, and I'll tell you what it means is I'm in his corner. I'm in his corner. I'm not leaving. I'm in his corner. Because I know the good that he has done. He's done

• 39:03John Maxwell?

  a tremendous amount of good. And I am not going to let it be destroyed.

• 39:10John Maxwell?

  By one stupid mistake. I'm gonna do everything I can to help maintain that legacy for him. Because he has a good legacy. And I think some, so I think, I think belief is more than just, boy, I believe in you. I, I, I, belief means I'm your friend. And, and you don't need to, I tell people all right, if I'm your friend, you don't need to look around. I'm in your corner. I'm there, I, I'm not moving. I haven't moved, I'm not, I'm not moving on good days, I'm not moving on bad days either, I'm not moving. And I think that, that I, I call, I call it belief mixed with unconditional love.

• 39:53John Maxwell?

  And, and when you put the two of those things together, two of the three that my father gave me when I graduated from college. You put two of those three things together, I think now you strength, and then what I tell people all the time is. Behavior is never experienced until difficult times. My behavior during good times is just like everybody's behavior. It's what separates is the bad times, the dark times, the difficult times. That's when people leave, that's when people are no longer there on the scene. And that's where I, I, I have always said leaders run to the fire. They, they, they don't run from the fire, they run to it.

• 40:32John Maxwell?

  And every time I go express and love by behavior a belief in somebody and I'm there during that difficult time for them. And you know what, it's, I, I'll have to say there's some selfishness to it. In my life, I'm gonna have some of those difficult times too, and I want them there. I, I, I, I need them, I need them. Let me just say one thing about belief. I think leaders don't say often enough, Ed, to their people, I need you. I need you. I, I, I, I, in fact, I, I, I've, I love telling my people how much I need them. I love telling my people that if I didn't have them, I wouldn't be here. And this wouldn't have happened.

• 41:13John Maxwell?

  I love letting them know that what they did made as big a difference as what they think when I go in and do my part. And, and to, to say I need you is a high, high compliment. It's, you know, it's, it's like you ask a person their opinion, what a high compliment when you say, what do you think about this? That's, you talk about. Giving net value to a person, that is absolutely life-changing. And just, can I say one more thing? Just, just one more thing on this. I, I try to add value to people, which is high road leaders. That's, they're, you, high road leaders add value, not take it away. But there's a difference between adding value and appreciating value.

• 41:57John Maxwell?

  Adding value is general. I just add value by trying to be kind and do the right thing. But once you know a person well, now you begin to add value to them in the area where it counts for them.

• 42:11John Maxwell?

  And that is appreciated. Now, all of a sudden, adding value is adding, but appreciating value is multiplying. And, and once, once I, see, after, after, after our two days in Mexico, I know how to appreciate value to you now. I, I, I, I can add value to you, but I know how to appreciate value to you now. I, I, I know what you care about, what you love, what's important to you, what you're passionate about. And, and then you find that, and then you say, okay, that's what he loves. That's what she cares for. Okay, now what am I going to do in that area? The, and the moment I get in your sweet spots, now I'm not adding value to you. I'm appreciating value. It's, it's going through the roof. Does that make sense?

• 42:50Ed Mylett?

  Well, I just watch it with you. Yes, I mean, I, this is such a remarkable conversation because as you're talking about these lessons, I have watched you do. We should spend a couple of days in Mexico together, John and I did. And without getting real emotional talking about it, I, I told my wife when I got back, I, I think I got 10 years, more than 10 years worth of growth out of those two days. And it was, in recent memory, no, beyond recent memory, in any memory of mine, the most I've felt appreciated and grown at the same time, maybe in my life. And he has this amazing ability, guys, to make you feel like a million bucks, but at the same time add value.

• 43:31Ed Mylett?

  We were talking, you know, he and I both speak, so some of the things we were talking about was that world and details of it. And watching how much John writes, he writes every day, every single day he writes. And, I mean, I don't want to be personal, but he says, hey, give me a topic you want to talk. And he pulls his laptop, he's got 600 talks, like 600. Is that the right number? It was hundreds, I remember. Right on his laptop, I'm like, Michael, what do you want to talk about?

• 43:55John Maxwell?

  Only old people can do that, only old people. Takes a lot of time.

• 43:59Ed Mylett?

  Well, also, no, but also that he would share it. John shares, he wants to add value. He's not afraid to tell you he need, a lot of leaders won't say, I need you because they think that you'll take advantage of it. That's how they think. Or if I share with you what I'm doing, then you'll do it better than me. And John literally said to me, goes, I share this stuff with you, Ed, because you'll take it, you'll make it better.

• 44:18John Maxwell?

  Yes, that's right.

• 44:19Ed Mylett?

  And that's about adding value.

• 44:20John Maxwell?

  That's huge. What's, what's really huge, am I in this for me, or am I in this for people? If I'm in this for people, I want the best product for the people. So when I give you something I have done, Ed, you're going to make it better. Because you have gifts that I don't have, you have experiences I don't have, you have stories I don't have, you have perspectives I don't have. So what is beautiful is when you give something to somebody, like a talk or whatever, and say it's yours. Their foundation doesn't start there, it starts up here, because you've already raised the level. But then what happens, Ed? You keep growing. So to me, anything I have, you can have. Because what you take, and when you give it, whether it's in a book or in a talk, it'll be better than I ever gave it. Because

• 45:04John Maxwell?

  I was the first. A pioneer knows, a pioneer knows, they go break ground. But they also know the people who come behind them will do better. And they want them to do better. What kind of a pioneer would I be if I went out and found the land, and came back and blocked it off, and didn't want anybody else to find the land, and just kind of held it for myself? Now, that's a kind of a small world. But you're exactly right. I, I, I do genuinely want people to take what I have, and make it better. And it's, it's, it's theirs. It's okay. It's okay.

• 45:37Ed Mylett?

  And guys, by the way, because you know, I'm such a fan of his work, everything he's saying is in the book. So the last chapter, desire the best for, desire the best for others. Right? That's, that's exactly what he's doing when he does these, he lives these things. Okay, a couple more things. This is one of the most remarkable, because we freelance this today, guys, just so you know, because we have this thing where we know, you know, Holy Spirit's present, and just it goes crazy, uh, when you and I visit. I, uh, there's one thing you have in there that I was surprised was in there, but I'm glad that it is. And that is that, uh, high road leaders don't keep score.

• 46:12John Maxwell?

  Yeah.

• 46:12Ed Mylett?

  And I want you to talk about that, because there's, there's a other playbook where people go, I'm putting that chip on my shoulder, and I'm going to use that somehow as leverage to some extent, you know, but I want you to talk about that.

• 46:26John Maxwell?

  Well, I think of all the things in that book, I think that's the most interesting chapter. Because I think a lot of people are transactional and they keep score. And somebody said, where did you learn that? Well, I learned that because I had somebody that I looked up to keep score on me.

• 46:42Ed Mylett?

  Oh, really?

• 46:44John Maxwell?

  And one day, I made a decision he didn't like. And he said, how could you make that decision after all I've done for you? And all of a sudden, I realized, oh, my gosh, Arnold keeps score. I didn't know that. I thought we had a relationship that didn't keep score. And then what I, well, then what happens? I'm in the hole. I mean, of course, he's done a lot for me. So now, I can't catch up. And it becomes a thing of, okay, you know, he did this for me, I did this for me. So I think keeping score is great for games. I think it's terrible for life. I don't keep score with Margaret. I don't keep score. And the reason I don't keep score is what kind of a marriage is, I said, Margaret, let me explain something.

• 47:29John Maxwell?

  You remember two weeks ago when you did that? And because you did that, I over here, that isn't a marriage. Now, why don't we just get a table and have a negotiating time here? There's no love there. There's no care there. There's no compromise there. There's no, oops, I'm sorry, I can be patient here. And so therefore, I think that keeping score makes us transactional when we should be transformational. And there's a world, there's between a transactional person who is always looking for the edge. I got to win here. And by the way, let me tell you something. I don't even like to win and have the other person lose. If I can't win with the other person winning, I really, what, I mean, where's the joy of, oh, well, I, you know, I got, I did a good deal and they're going to lose a couple of

• 48:14John Maxwell?

  million, but I'm going to get that. And I mean, where's the, and by the way, if you come to the table and you lose once, and I say, come back to the table, you don't want to come back to the table. Why would you come back to the table with me? Because all you have is the fact that the last time, I took from you. And so I have, I think, I think high road leaders, they want more for their people than from their people.

• 48:40John Maxwell?

  And I think there's a big difference from that. And if I can't help the other person win, honestly, I'm not interested in the game. I'm not because my goal isn't to win. My goal, I mean, who wants to cross the finish line alone? I want to cross the finish line with you, Ed. I want to cross the... Everybody on your podcast, I want you to be at the finish line with me. Why, I don't want you to be in the stands cheering. I don't need cheerleaders. I want you to be in the game with us and let's cross it together. And I just think that it is a very fulfilling, significant life when you don't have to always win. And when you say, no, I think it's their

• 49:19John Maxwell?

  turn. I think I want them to get a win under their belt right now. And there's something, there's something very beautiful about that spirit. And of course, because I'm a Christ follower, again, you know, there are, oh my gosh, there are dozens of Jesus illustrations I can say where he didn't win. He didn't have to fight for himself, didn't have to jump up and down and say, no, I'm right. Don't you know who I am? I am the son of God. I mean, excuse me. You know, this is not even territory here. No, he was, he had the ability to love unconditionally and sometimes walk away. And I think it's very important. When people come to me, I want them

• 50:00John Maxwell?

  to say, he adds value to me, not, I wonder what he wants from me.

• 50:06Ed Mylett?

  Wow.

• 50:07John Maxwell?

  I don't like that.

• 50:08Ed Mylett?

  Yet at the same time, in the book, you do talk about being conscious, a high road leader will give more than they take.

• 50:15John Maxwell?

  Yes. Yeah, here's the difference. I don't keep score, but I do keep track.

• 50:21Ed Mylett?

  Okay.

• 50:22John Maxwell?

  Oh, this is, this is good. If I keep score, I'm in it to win and I will find a way to win. That's wrong. What I want to do is I want to keep track. And what I mean by keep a track is I want to be very conscious of what people have done for me. And I want to make sure that it's not a one-way street because relationships don't work if, marriages don't work if it's a one-way relationship. One day, the person doing all the giving says, I'm tired of doing all the giving and they're doing all the taking. So I keep track, which means I'm very conscious of people that have helped me and added value. And I'm always asking myself, what can I say to them? What can I do for them? That lets them know that I'm not a friend along for a ride.

• 51:02John Maxwell?

  You know, I'm, I'm, uh, I'm, when I'm in South Florida, I'm, I'm a teaching, well, teaching, a teaching pastor for Christ's Fellowship. It's a huge church, thirty, forty thousand people, anyway, which, and I only do it four, three or four times here because I don't have any time. But I told, I told my two dear friends, the founder and the lead pastor, I said, guys, it's very simple. Give me your garbage days. Give me your, I mean, give me, uh, the Sunday, you know, Memorial Day weekend, okay, Labor Day weekend, you follow me. How about right after, you know, right before New Year? I mean, when everybody's gone, and just give me your garbage day. In fact, Mark was laughing one day, he said, John, he said, you've come a long way in your career. When you were a senior pastor, you used to give the staff the garbage days. Now that's what you do, the garbage days. But, but listen, every year,

• 51:47John Maxwell?

  Ed, I sit down with, with Tom and Todd, and we have a lunch, and I, I resign. I said, guys, I, I need to resign now, uh, off of this. I, I'm seventy-seven. You need to get somebody younger, better, faster, smarter than me. So let me just, it's good. I love you. I, it's my church, but I, I resign. And every year, they don't let me resign. But let me tell you something. I am never going to stay on the team because of a friendship. If I'm on the team, I'm adding value and I'm giving more than I'm taking. Or I'm not going to be on the team. I, I, because I think sometimes people take friendship, I think people take advantage of friendship. I, I think, I think sometimes, I think sometimes we're on the team and we're saying, well, you know, I'm not really producing for Ed

• 52:32John Maxwell?

  like I need to, but we're friends. We're good friends. We're really good friends. And I'm sitting there, I'm saying, being good friends and producing isn't the same thing. Hey, hey, you can be good friends and quit. You can still be good friends. But, but don't take advantage of friendship. And I think, again, high road leaders, they keep track. So they're never going to take advantage of friendship, but they don't keep score.

• 52:53Ed Mylett?

  Very good. Very good.

• 52:54John Maxwell?

  There's a difference.

• 52:55Ed Mylett?

  Very good.

• 52:59Speaker 01

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• 53:29Ed Mylett?

  All right, I got a, I got two questions left. As usual, um, I sit here, I don't, I forget we're in an interview. I'm just talking to someone.

• 53:38John Maxwell?

  It's because we're friends, we're talking.

• 53:40Ed Mylett?

  Right, but it's just, it's just also so good. So this is probably the hardest question of the interview, though. And, um, I even debated whether to ask you because I think the answer is so difficult. But I want to hear your answer, so. How do you nuance? People say, you know, a leader should take a stand for what they believe in. You and I have actually talked about this together. So I'm just curious what your thoughts are on this. Yet, sometimes as a leader, if you take a stand about something that you're passionate about, that you, that knowingly will alienate a group of people you're charged with leading. Right, so there's something I'm passionate about. So I'd like to take a stand for it. But at the same time, as a leader, don't I have an obligation not to alienate

• 54:20Ed Mylett?

  or offend people who I want to believe in and challenge and equip at the same time? And I think that that's, uh, you know, in my own case, there are people that I used to work with that I just no longer do because they got so crazy about stances on the, I mean, that they justifiably believed in deeply, but that I just didn't need or want from them in that environment. I needed their leadership and their vision and their equipping and their belief more than I needed their opinion about this thing. Yet, at the same time, leaders stand for something. So, hard question.

• 54:57John Maxwell?

  That's a good question. First of all, leaders should stand for things. If you're not standing for things as a leader, you're not a leader. I mean, how, you're pointing at a picture, you're showing people a direction to go. So a leader that stands for nothing isn't a leader. I mean, they're just in the crowd somewhere. So standing for something is essential in leadership. But what is more essential is valuing the people. So, here's the way I say it. When you stop loving your people, you should stop leading your people.

• 55:28John Maxwell?

  Because I'll start to manipulate you now, start to take advantage. So, when you and I disagree on something, which you and I, we'd have to disagree. My gosh, we wouldn't agree on everything. My, has nothing to do with friendship, but we wouldn't agree on everything. It's, this is very simple, very simple. I've got to make sure, first of all, that you know how much I love you and care for you. And here's how I let you know that. I look at you and I, if I unconditionally love you, I love you regardless of what you think, or what side you're on, or what your political stance is, or what your belief is. I just love you. And that doesn't change. That, there's nothing that can change or keep me from loving you and valuing you. Nothing. There anything you can say, there anything you can do.

• 56:11John Maxwell?

  Once I have established that relationship of unconditional love. Done that with my kids. My kids know, my kids, my kids haven't made every decision I would approve of, or. And, and I tell them, I said, unconditional love doesn't mean I approve of everything. It just means that whatever you do, I still, I love you unconditionally. And, and so, once they have that environment of unconditional love around them, then absolutely I can give my opinion. And, and I, and they, and by the way, unconditional love lets them give their opinion too, even though they know that isn't going to be what mine is. And, so the miss is this. When we love the issue more than we love the person, we're in trouble. I don't love any issue, there's no issue I don't love

• 56:56John Maxwell?

  more than the person themselves. And once I, once I establish, I love you because I love you purely because God created you in the story. Now, we can work on issues all the time. And we, by the way, we will work on issues all the time because I'm safe to you. At a safe envi, a safe environment is essential. My mother, my mother unconditionally loved each one of us as children. She was so safe. I mean, when I got into trouble, as a kid, I went to my mom. I mean, you don't usually go to a parent, you go to a friend, say, oh dear, I, I screwed up. You know, I, I go to mom, because I knew mom loved me unconditionally. And that creates a safe environment. Then, I, what I say then, once you have that safe environment to live in.

• 57:42John Maxwell?

  Now, start leading, start leading, lay out what you think and it gets better. But you've got to love the person more than the issue.

• 57:50Ed Mylett?

  Oh, my gosh, guys, I would write that word safety down. It's one of the words leaders don't emphasize, don't think about, don't focus. And I think it's the fundamental, that you create a safe environment. By the way, sometimes it's a little thing, like some of you guys that used to show up on time when you were younger. And as the company got bigger and you've made more money, now you show up later and later that creates a lack. There's little things that your presence, your, your love, your belief, your structure, your equipping, create safety. That's the underlying message that's being sent is we're safe here. And then you can, you can explode and do anything you want from a safe place. Okay, last question. Um, this is just about you because I want to ask you stuff. Do you have a, do you care about your own legacy as a leader?

• 58:34Ed Mylett?

  And if you do, uh, what, what do you want it to be?

• 58:39John Maxwell?

  Wow, well, yeah, I, I, I.

• 58:44John Maxwell?

  I care about what I value. Um, I had, Jack Welch and I had a conversation before he passed away that was life changing to me. He, he said to me something that I had never thought before and it was kind of like, oh, this is going to help me. Of course, he was CEO for many years of General Electric. He said, John, don't put your legacy in an organization, put it in people. He, he, he, he said organizations over time, they just change that, that, you know, different people lead them for different reasons and different agendas, but he said, put it in people. In fact, that was the, probably the motivating talk that got me started with my coaching company,

• 59:24John Maxwell?

  which we have the largest coaching company in the world, is, is I said, I want to develop coaches that I could put my legacy into. But what, so, so when people ask me about what, what I want my, what my legacy, I, here, I want my legacy to be two things. I want people that knew me. I would, you know, when I say my name is John, I'm your friend. That probably should go on my tombstone.

• 59:44Ed Mylett?

  Yes.

• 59:45John Maxwell?

  My name's John. I'm your friend. It's that simple. It's, it's, I'm not complicated. I'm a very simple person anyway. The second thing I want is that in this life, I added value to leaders who multiplied value to others. I want my legacy to be in the leadership lane because multiplication begins there. If, if you can change a leader, you can change people's massive amount of people. But I, so it's in, it's in the heart, it's in my heart and it's in the heart of my people. And, and I honestly think that when I die, I'll never die, to be honest with you. I, I think that the principle and the truth will still live and, and those values will, will, will still, still go on.

• 1:00:28John Maxwell?

  But as far as John Maxwell, the person, I'm not interested in that at all. I, I have no desire to have museums or anything like that. I don't, I don't, none of that stuff. I, I, it, I want it to be in the values of the heart. I want it to, that's where the, that's where transformation starts in the, in, in, in caring for people. Every day, this is very simple. I wake up and say, what a life I have. Today I get to intentionally add value to people. And, and it's that simple. It, it's, it's to the single mom waitress that I'm going to give a, a big tip to because a hundred dollars is important to her.

• 1:01:11John Maxwell?

  In fact, I tell people that when, when you're blessed like you and I are, and I want to tell you something right now. What's little to us is big to others. So we better make what's little to us big.

• 1:01:24John Maxwell?

  And if we do that, we're constantly, I got a picture. I was playing golf the other day at Highlands. I gotta get you up to high heaven. I gotta get you. It's a great golf course and, and Tom Fosser. And, and there were seven beautiful brothers that were doing all the hard work and raking and doing all the work. And, and, and I went over to him. I, I said, told the guys, I was already on the, I, I, I was, my, my, I was already on the green. I said, give me a two putt. I'm on the green. And I hung with him for three minutes just to talk to him how, how, how nice the course looked because of them and how much I appreciated that. And I, you know, I gave him a couple hundred bucks and said, go out to lunch and on me. And I wanted to know how much God loved them and how much I loved them.

• 1:02:08John Maxwell?

  And so what's interesting is when my group came back over there, the guys, they wanted a picture. And man, I have the best picture of my arm around about seven of these beautiful brothers. And, and, and, okay. That's what counts in life. If I don't do that privately, I don't want you to hear me publicly because there's no gravitas or moral authority in what I say publicly if I don't live that life privately.

• 1:02:40Ed Mylett?

  And he does, you guys, he does. I picturing him doing that because I've seen things similar to that with John many times. Just how he interacts with the server or, uh, well, I won't tell you.

• 1:02:52John Maxwell?

  Andrew, you got the picture? Give me my camera or give me, I'm having a charge. Go ahead, close it up, Ed. I just, I want to show this picture.

• 1:03:01Ed Mylett?

  Let me just say this to you. He's going to show us this picture at the end if you're on YouTube, everybody. But I got to tell you this, the book is called High Road Leadership. The author of the book embodies that more than anybody that I have ever met. And, uh, and the subtitles, bringing people together in a world that divides. I hope this conversation today did, and there's a picture. We can see it. It's reflected, there it is. There it is. There he is with the guys. He, it's, it's right there. I hope they had a good lunch.

• 1:03:27John Maxwell?

  Somebody says, I hope you had a good golf round. I had a good golf round because I did this. I'm better, hey, Ed, I'm better at this than I am at golf.

• 1:03:34Ed Mylett?

  I can vouch for that.

• 1:03:38Ed Mylett?

  I love you, John. Today's conversation, I wish we could have John on every week. This would be so easy. I love you. All right, God bless you, everybody. Max out, share this episode.