Total Human Optimization with Aubrey Marcus

You Deserve MORE out of Life! Aubrey Marcus is an experimentalist, unconventional fitness junkie, successful entrepreneur, New York Times Bestselling Author, and human optimizer. With over 50 MILLION podcast downloads, it’s time to optimize your life with Aubrey Marcus! Aubrey and I get REAL about how he has challenged social norms and lived life on his own terms. He opens up about being in an open relationship and how polygamy challenged him to combat his own need for validation and supercharge his monogamous marriage with his wife today. We dive deep into the POWER of CHOICE and unlocking your FREEDOM to live life on your own terms. By practicing your awareness of choice and stop doing things because you “should” do them or because you “have to” do them, you’ll be able to do things because you WANT to do them and open up an entire new world of possibilities and freedom. The number one wish people make on their deathbed is - “I wish I would have let myself be happier.” This interview will give you the skills to start living happier NOW, before it’s too late. CLICK HERE to check out this interview on YouTube. CLICK HERE to follow me on Instagram for daily motivation! CLICK HERE to visit my website andsign up for my weekly newsletter! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Ed Mylett?

  I hear so many small business owners say the exact same thing. They just never have enough time in the day. Well, I measure time differently. I've compressed, condensed, heck, I've bent time. My first day is 6:00 a.m. to noon. My second day starts at noon and goes till 6:00 P.M. And my third day, 6:00 P.M. to midnight. I now get 21 days a week. Stack that up over a month, over a year, over five years, and my life's completely different than it would have been otherwise. And if you want to win as an entrepreneur, you have to compress your time, too. And you definitely can't afford to waste it. Waiting weeks on a big bank for capital? Your best bet's to work with my friends at Cardiff. They know how to compress time for entrepreneurs. They get your business approved in minutes and funded the very same day. They're America's favorite small business lender, and for good reason.

• 0:45Ed Mylett?

  Over 20 years in business, over $12 billion deployed to small business across America. Stop letting bank delays slow down your momentum. Head to cardiff.co/ed. That's cardiff.co/ed. Cardiff.co. Real growth, fast funding. Cardiff. Borrow better.

• 1:01Speaker 01

  Mr. President, my company, for me, of the explosion on our rig.

• 1:05Speaker 02

  On October 2nd.

• 1:06Speaker 01

  Causing massive water displacement and triggering a tsunami. They all heap the blame on me.

• 1:11Speaker 02

  Tom Cruise is. Digger got us into this mess. And Digger's gonna dig us up. From the director of Birdman and The Revenant.

• 1:18Speaker 01

  What would happen if I stopped drilling? You stop, you freeze to death, that's what.

• 1:22Speaker 02

  With great power comes great deniability.

• 1:25Speaker 01

  I'm not the first nanny.

• 1:27Speaker 02

  Digger. See the trailer online. Only in theaters October 2nd. Rated R. Under 17. Not a minute without parent.

• 1:38Speaker 03

  This is The Ed Miler Show.

• 1:45Ed Mylett?

  Welcome back to Max Out, everybody. My guest today is a guy I really admire. He's an out-of-the-box thinker. He's an entrepreneur. I'd call him a life optimization guru of sorts. And overall, just a world-class communicator. Tons of mutual friends. New York Times bestselling author. 50 million downloads on his podcast.

• 2:06Ed Mylett?

  And a really good man, and I'm excited to have him on. So Aubrey Marcus, welcome to the show, brother.

• 2:11Speaker 04

  Happy to be here, brother. This is gonna be fun.

• 2:14Ed Mylett?

  I'm happy to have you here because, you know, our worlds have sort of collided. Like, we keep missing one another with so many of our mutual friends and like these just just hearing about you is like, I just want to get to know this man a lot better. And I'm really glad I get to know you as I share you with the audience too. So I'm gonna go everywhere, but I want to ask you a little bit about stuff I've read about you too. Like, what is to you? What's the definition of total human optimization? What does that mean?

• 2:41Speaker 04

  Well, I think a lot of times we look at different parts in a silo, even the mind and body. We talk about these as separate things. They're not separate things. And if you look at every clinical trial that studies every aspect of the physical body, what are they accounting for? The placebo? Or what the fuck is the placebo? The placebo is the mind tricking the body into healing itself or creating a reaction physically in the body. And I think we all too often overlook the interlap that happens between mind, body, spirit. So total human optimization is of course, you got to take care of the physical aspects of the body. You got to move, you got to get light, you got to get water, you got to get breath, you have to cover, got to get sleep, you have to have sex, you have

• 3:24Speaker 04

  to do all the basics to really support that. But there's so much more in mindset that's also equally important, so that you're signaling to your body the right things to live the most thriving life.

• 3:35Ed Mylett?

  What's one of the things you do on the thinking side? Because the physical side, we'll talk about with the stuff that you do with breathing and all these other things that you you talk really eloquently about. Give me one thing you do on the thinking side that maybe someone's not heard before that's unique.

• 3:48Speaker 04

  I I try every way possible to get still, like get the mind to quiet down because the mind is a noisy beast. I mean, it is just snarling and growling. And when it's untamed, it's even louder and it's even noisier and it's going to drag you down a lot of dark alleys where a lot of, you know, dark emotions and thoughts are going to be there waiting for you. And it can be productive to lean into that and actually target those places that are scary, but do it with intention, you know, do it as the one deciding which direction you're gonna go. But before you do that, you gotta get still. So whether that's a meditation practice, or whether that's some kind of flow practice, either ecstatic dance where you're getting into a state of super fluidity where it's just sound and movement, or whether it's a sport, or whether it's something else, like finding

• 4:32Speaker 04

  all of the opportunities to get my mind still is crucial because like everybody, my mind's as noisy as the next guy's or girl's. So really finding the ways to get in that deep stillness so that I know that I'm navigating my own path.

• 4:47Ed Mylett?

  So how do you know when something is? So guys, Aubrey built an unbelievable company called Onnit. And then I think this year, you sort of decided that that's not your role to be leading it anymore. And one of the things for me on getting my mind a little bit more quiet, because I struggle with that, Tony Robbins, I talked a lot about this, like, man, I just really struggle with it. So, you know, my meditation practices are like really dear to me. I know they are for you too. But for me also, it's anything that no longer serves me getting rid of it, if it doesn't serve me anymore. Is that, was that part of your decision making and making that step down or unrelated completely?

• 5:24Speaker 04

  You know, not really, because I love Onnit, you know, and it just felt like I had given my gift to that company in the way that I, you know, desired to give it. You know, I was able to birth this amazing company and put all of these things out. And I'm still founder of the, still founder, still chairman of the board, still contributing to product development and kind of communicating with all the leaders. But to really be an effective CEO, I mean, that's a 60 hour a week kind of thing, minimum, you know? And I was that guy. I was that guy who was just looking at everything. If there was a rug and I thought there might be some stuff underneath the rug, I was the one picking up the rug and seeing if there was cobwebs. And you need someone in that position. And I just lost that drive, that fire to be that guy.

• 6:09Speaker 04

  You know, I wanted to be the inspirational leader. I wanted to come up with great ideas and then allow my team to execute. And I was just really blessed that after a certain amount of time, my team was incredibly capable. So allowing, you know, our new CEO, Jason Havy, who was our COO for a while, and then our president for a while, allowing him to step into the CEO role and actually be a CEO that's going to be working harder than anybody else in the company, which I think is a natural part of leadership, and it actually is healthy for the whole organism. It's healthier with me stepping back and having someone in that role who's actually doing what a CEO, in my opinion, should. And so it was, it was as much a decision

• 6:52Speaker 04

  that this was the best thing for Onnit, because I wasn't gonna, and I, and I beat myself up about it. I was like, come on, man, you gotta do it. You gotta get in there. You gotta look at all the, you know, you gotta look at all the, the accounts. You gotta look at everything. You gotta turn over every rock. But I just wasn't naturally inclined to do it. So I really wanted a podcast, and I wanted to write more books, and I wanted to, you know, continue my own spiritual practice. And I recently got married, and there's a lot of other things that were driving my passion, rather than, you know, that kind of nitty gritty aspect of being a CEO.

• 7:22Ed Mylett?

  All right, you opened the door I want to go through so bad. Like, for four weeks, I've wanted to ask you about this. So we're gonna go back to entrepreneurship, because you can't have a guy who's been a successful entrepreneur. But you did just get married, and I cannot wait to freaking talk about this topic, because you know where I'm gonna go. So

• 7:37Speaker 04

  Of course, let's go.

• 7:38Ed Mylett?

  So when I, when I, first off, Aubrey's an interesting dude, in that when I first knew of him and I saw him, I think maybe I have a little of this too. I was like, this is a dude's dude. Like, he's fit, you know, MMA stuff, all this stuff. I'm like, this is a dude's dude. Then I found he was a successful entrepreneur. Then I started to listen to him. And I'm like, oh, I love this dude. Because it goes far beyond that, into the spiritual side, into the being present side, into the expanding your mind side. And then I went a little further. I'm like, get out, this dude was in an open relationship, and talked about it for years. And so I'm really curious. Because I think I'm right when I say this, that you're in this open relationship and then you it was with Whitney, I think I'm right about that.

• 8:23Speaker 04

  Correct.

• 8:24Ed Mylett?

  And you were open about it. Both of you are open about it. You talked about it. I don't know if you preached the benefits of it, but you certainly were open about that. And now you're in a new relationship. I am dying to hear about your thoughts about the structure of your previous relationship, the structure of your new one, and what you've learned about yourself and that human dynamics of relationships as a result.

• 8:47Speaker 04

  You know, I still can preach the benefits of it because as I was mentioning, this is one of the scariest things that we can endeavor to do. Now, I would talk to some of the homies and they'd be like, oh, man, this is amazing. You get to date anybody you want. And I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, that part's that part's cool. It's beautiful. I get to make new connections. I get to meet new people. I'm completely free. However, put yourself in the shoes where your sweetheart, your girl that you love so much, your precious girl, is also fucking whoever she wants, like, and whoever she wants, because that's what's fair is fair, right? I'm not trying to run a harem here. This was true, open relationship polyamory.

• 9:27Speaker 04

  So there is that side of the freedom of exploration, which feels really good, but there's the absolute agony of, you know, just combating and dealing with the jealousy that comes up and the insecurity that comes up and the need for validation that comes up. So the benefit is, is that it's going to put you square into all of these challenges. It's going to test your own self-love. Because if you're getting validation by your partner, loving you, choosing you, wanting to be with you, as soon as she starts falling in love with somebody else or enjoying her physical experience with somebody else more than you, it's really going to test how much do I love myself and how much am I dependent upon Whitney loving me to love myself? So the path of the path of polyamory and open relationship,

• 10:10Speaker 04

  it can be exciting. It's absolutely torturous, but it's definitely a path for growth. So if you enter into it, knowing that it's going to be hard, but you know, resistance creates adaptation, you know, challenge creates the potential benefit on the other side to your own psyche and emotion. Then I think it's it's a great choice. And I think perhaps some people are better than me. I've spent six years trying to overcome and slay the dragon of jealousy, slay the dragon of the need for, you know, validation from a partner and really love myself radically, be absolutely as happy for her to experience pleasure with anybody as experienced pleasure with me. I couldn't get there, you know, and but I know that.

• 10:50Speaker 04

  And I did my best and I gained a lot along the way, but ultimately I could never, I could never conquer it. There's just perhaps too much hardwired, or I just hadn't evolved enough on my own spiritual practice, my own emotional mastery to actually make it through the other side. So it was a beautiful experience and I'm just incredibly grateful to Whitney and my other paramours that I had that experience with and even Whitney's partners who all taught me a lot. And but there was a time where I was like, all right, this is, you know, I've done my absolute best. I gave it everything I got. It ultimately wasn't for me. And, you know, at the same time,

• 11:29Speaker 04

  you know, Valana, my current wife, kind of came in and I was ready to transition into a different type of relationship. And I'm really just could not be happier with the situation I'm in now. And but also I don't think I would be able to be as content and as happy if I hadn't explored polyamory like I did. Cause it would always be a thought in my mind, you know, I'm a, I'm never going to be the guy that's going to cheat on my girl, my woman, my wife. I, I won't do it, you know, partly because that's my morality and partly because I would be just an absolute nervous wreck. Like it would just tear me up. It's like it, the cost benefit of that doesn't make any sense to me.

• 12:08Speaker 04

  And it violates, you know, the core understanding of who I am. But polyamory being absolutely honest, absolutely truthful. And, you know, everything is discussed. It's all out in the open. That would always be dangling and I'd always be wondering, like, I wonder, I wonder if that would work for me. But now I don't have a big shiny glittery alluring, you know, sirens question mark on that. And I've like, I've been there. I've done that. It had incredible beauty, incredible challenge. But I'm really ready to settle into a different type of relationship now.

• 12:41Ed Mylett?

  And so this relationship, by the way, my audience is going, whoa, we've never gone there on the show before, right? But I wanted to, I wanted to go through it because. I think in some ways it can strengthen a relationship that's committed by hearing the I like that there's no judgment. I don't have any judgment about anybody does in their life. I just really don't. Their path is their path. Their needs are their needs. But I've not, I did not heard someone that's kind of in the influencer space. I think it took a tremendous amount of vulnerability and courage to go, hey, this is the way I'm living my life. And then even more to come back now and say, you know, that was a season of my life and I just, that is not for me. So does that mean your relationship now is what you would call a one-on-one committed marriage now between the two of you?

• 13:20Speaker 04

  Monogamous.

• 13:21Ed Mylett?

  Monogamous. And what, what have you learned in this one? That you like more about it than the other one? Is it the commitment part? Is it the, is it, is it, is it giving you a deeper intimacy because it's with this one person? What do you think the difference is?

• 13:38Speaker 04

  There's, you know, there's just an immense amount of emotional energy that you have to put into a polyamorous or open relationship. First of all, you have connections with multiple people. You have the interactions between the connections with multiple people. You're constantly processing, constantly talking, constantly dealing with your own shadows and your own demons and all the things that are coming up. I mean, it is an incredible amount of energy that you're outputting. And in this, everything is just so much, it's so much lighter and it's so much more playful. You know, like I used to cherish those moments where I could kind of drop the weight of it and everything felt good and I felt like I could play and just smile freely without something

• 14:19Speaker 04

  torturing my mind. And now, you know, with my wife, we were playing all the time, just, you know, loving each other, enjoying being silly. And of course, you know, we're human beings. There's going to be attraction to other human beings, but I know what the cost is to go and try and acquire that and it's just not worth it. So I'm settled, like I'm settled in my mind. And, you know, we get to choose, Valana and I get to choose each other every day and just have an amazing time together.

• 14:49Ed Mylett?

  Yeah, you hit on something powerful there about choice, because I've heard you talk about this. And I love what you just said, because you, I had Matthew Hussey on my show. Who's kind of a relationship.

• 15:01Speaker 04

  He's great, right?

• 15:02Ed Mylett?

  And he said, you know, how about being in a new relationship with the same person? And you know, that hit me, you know, really, really hard that you can choose to be in a new relationship with the same person. The relationship can begin to evolve and be different and have different elements of it. There's a fine line, man, like be- because I've heard you say, "Choice is a superpower."

• 15:21Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 15:21Ed Mylett?

  Right? And that can be, I think, anything we believe extended too far out can begin to lose the meaning it originally had in its intention. You know what I mean? That's why sometimes people take statements just way too far out from what their intended statements were originally. And so I really love that you stayed with the theme of choice. Being in a monogamous relationship, a loving, traditional marriage, isn't the lack of choice. It's a choice to be in that relationship, right?

• 15:46Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 15:47Ed Mylett?

  And I love that you said, I'm really glad that you said it that way, because I think, you know, I'm, I'm, uh, I, I am certainly not wired to have to deal with the energy drain and the worries and the jealousy that, uh, you were experiencing during those types. Like, I just know for sure, there's just no damn way in the world. But I want you to talk about that as a broader statement that you've made. Why is choice, because I think it's one of these things we have that we don't acknowledge we have. Why is choice a superpower in the general sense?

• 16:16Speaker 04

  When you really look at it, like, what we're capable of is so much more than we think we, than, than we think we are. And all too often, we'll just accept what society says, we'll accept what our conditioning tells us, we'll just accept that there's rules of the game, that it just, everybody's doing it, so there's just rules. And I think a lot of times in relationship, there was just, this is the way it's done. You're monogamous, you get married, you lose passion, blah, blah, blah, you deal with it, you start a family, and this is just the way. But when you're, when that's the, when that's how it's going, it robs you of that, you know, really sacred power you have to say, like, "No, actually, I'm choosing this." I mean, even the language we use is oppressive. "I

• 16:58Speaker 04

  should, I have to, oh, I have to do this, I have to do this thing for work." No, you don't. You don't have to do that. You could do whatever the fuck you want. And like, to really reclaim that, then start, I actually work with, by a lot of my wife, that we catch each other every time we use a language of compulsion, because it's, it's never true. "Oh, I've gotta go see my family." No, you don't. You don't have to go see your family. You can choose not to go see your family. "Oh, I gotta, I gotta do a cleanse." No, you don't. You don't have to do that. "I gotta go to the gym, I have to, I have to get some, you know, reps in." No, you don't. You want to, you want to. And then when you start to realize like everything in your life, for the most part, you're doing because you want to, unless there's some other oppressive

• 17:41Speaker 04

  force outside of your control, which sometimes is the case. And in that specific instance, you know, there may be that choice. But even if something is happening, like if you're starving, I have to eat. No, you don't. You can choose not to eat. You might die and you could choose to die. Like you have choice and to recognize that we're constantly making choices. There's something really liberating about that. And it just removes so much self oppression. It's exciting to me.

• 18:09Ed Mylett?

  Brother, it's huge. It's, it's, I know for sure where we are right now is the reason I had you on the show because I've been, the universe, God always delivers to you like someone who's speaking to right where you are. And I gotta tell you, you said something about, no, you don't. It's so true. Even at my, the way I live my life, which, you know, I'm always giving advice to people of different things. Even I do a lot of things because I think I should. And this oppressive force you talked about, guys, most of them are boogeymen we've made up in our mind. There's these confines and restrictions of the way we end up living. What if you could just go back to what Aubrey started with there, which no, you don't. You can do whatever you want. Now, you may choose not to based on morals, ethic, ethics, et cetera,

• 18:53Ed Mylett?

  et cetera. But you could do anything you want. I'll give you an example, bro. I just want to tell you this because it goes to your work. Man, I don't know if anyone's ever experienced this. This is the most bizarre thing. I'm gonna be 50 years old next year. I'm a grown man. I've built a really nice life, right? And my dad passed away two weeks ago. And it's just gonna sound ridiculous. There's a lot of beautiful things that happened in his passing. One of the things that started to occur to me, however, the last few weeks, this is so strange, is my willingness to now start to try and do things that I wasn't willing to do when my dad was alive. Out of some bizarre judgment he might have that I would do it, that he didn't even really

• 19:33Ed Mylett?

  have, but that I made up because he existed on the earth somehow. It's crazy, but I'm like, I can do that now. You know, dad's gone. They're unrelated completely, but somehow this relationship with parents, this relationship with other people, our relationship with our belief systems, are that oppressive force that causes us to not live on our own terms? Isn't that crazy?

• 19:59Speaker 04

  It is, and it's ubiquitous. It's everywhere. We all experience it. And so, yeah, I mean, the invitation to the people listening is try and catch yourself. You know, catch yourself every time you have that should or should not, or have or have to, or and really make that make that word mean something. If you actually literally have to in some crazy situation, you know, which is actually hard to actually come up with when you say that. I mean, there's things that obviously you will do, you know, and it's not really even a something that's up for debate. This is something you will do because of who you are, etc. But pretty much everything, you know, is your choice to do it. And when you start to reclaim that, and then that's step one. And

• 20:44Speaker 04

  then step two is to start to expand what your choices actually are. And like, can you, I mentioned the placebo effect earlier. Can you actively choose to harness the placebo effect for your own benefit? Well, if you follow Dr. Joe Dispenza's work, 100% you can. And so, what does that mean? That means you can start actively using your mind to heal your body, to get yourself in a, in a prime optimal state. You can make that choice. And then you have to realize, oh, why am I not choosing that? Why am I not choosing to do that? Is it because I want to suffer for some reason? Maybe it's because I think I deserve to suffer. And you start to expose everything that's in the mind. You know, an interesting thing as well, there was a palliative

• 21:28Speaker 04

  care nurse, and her name was Bronnie Ware, and you can look this up. And she interviewed hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of people who were passing on their deathbed. And the number one deathbed regret was, I wish I would have let myself be happier.

• 21:45Speaker 04

  So they, in the moment of death, understood that their happiness was a choice. And they didn't let themselves, like that language is really important, not, I wish I would have been happier. Like that was some thing that happened externally. It's, I wish I would have let myself be happier. So they recognized it's a choice.

• 22:06Ed Mylett?

  Aubrey, dude, I just, look at, can you see my hairless arms with the goosebumps on there?

• 22:10Speaker 04

  Yeah, man.

• 22:11Ed Mylett?

  I gotta tell you something, brother. I'm almost gonna cry right now, but I won't. I just finished being interviewed an hour ago. And I was talking, they asked me about my dad's passing. And my dad, by the way, was a beautiful, my best friend, beautiful man. And had all the things a rich man would have, not money, but a loving family, a loving wife, really passed in his own home. But it's interesting, I can't believe you just said that, that they let themselves be happier. I just got interviewed an hour ago, so it was probably about 45 minutes ago, I uttered this sentence, bro. I said, I wish my dad would have let himself be happier. I just said this an hour ago, bro. And, and you're so right about that. What if you just let yourself be happier?

• 22:52Ed Mylett?

  What if you just did? It's, it's such a powerful thing. It's such a simple thing. That we create these confines on ourselves and they become, as Dr. Joe talks about, our very familiar part of our body, this congruency between our thoughts and the way we move our body. And I just hope everyone that's getting exposed, it's particularly about the time of year they're listening to it. You know, you're gonna be going into a new year. You know, you could give yourself permission to be a new you, to think new thoughts, to not have to do things. And allow what Aubrey's telling you to really sink in, to actually just let yourself be happier. It's just a permission thing. It's, it's, it's remarkable that you just said that, brother. I can't, I get over that those are the, the way you worded it is too. How about one thing that you do?

• 23:36Ed Mylett?

  On the breathing side, I'm like, I'm trying to split hairs now, like, how can I grow? How can I improve? I like the way that I train. I like my nutrition. You know, I, I like the things I'm working on in my mind and the different things that I'm doing. We'll go to the mind in a little bit too. But one thing I've sort of become obsessed with and very aware of is how central breathing is overall to our wellness, our mindset, our belief systems. And so what is something you do that's something related to breathing? Cause I've heard you talk about this, but something that most people wouldn't know about or aren't doing on a regular basis.

• 24:14Speaker 04

  I love that question and I can't wait to dive in. I want to take one moment to share something because we mentioned let myself be happier. And there's a lot of ways to do that, but I had, I had a really beautiful answer when I asked, you know, a 50 year Zen Buddhist, how like the secret to happiness. And he said, he said, well, how do you, how do you, you know, how do you get yourself to be happy? And he says, he thinks about it for a moment. He says, you just smile and then you see how far it spreads. And I was like, oh, yeah, yeah. And like that, it can be that simple, like bend the corners of your mouth into a smile

• 24:57Speaker 04

  and just see how far it goes.

• 25:00Ed Mylett?

  That's awesome.

• 25:01Speaker 04

  You know, just like one little thing like that. And then when you don't want to do that, that's where you gotta get curious. Like, okay, now that you've known that and you're like, you, I don't want to do it. I don't want to smile. Well, then you're choosing to be sad. And then why? Why are you choosing to suffer? Why? And that's where I think it really gets interesting to start looking in and diving deeper. And it's a, a big part of the next book that I'm writing, which is a challenging book. It's called master your mind. But those questions are at like the central cores is, because I recognize how much choice we have and then asking that question, okay, now why? If we know that we're capable of doing this, why aren't we? And not without judgment, you know, not saying, oh, you should, you should, but being really

• 25:45Speaker 04

  curious as to why. So anyways, I just wanted to share that before.

• 25:48Ed Mylett?

  That's beautiful. Before you do it, I'm going to steal something from your book.

• 25:51Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 25:52Ed Mylett?

  Give me one reason that is a why for most people that they won't, they, they choose to be sad and won't allow them. So just give us one.

• 26:00Speaker 04

  I think one of the biggest reasons is fear of hope. Because here's what happens when you have, here's when you're, here's what happens when you're afraid of hope. So, hope means that you have to identify that something's wrong with your current state. And, cause then, why would you want something else to happen unless there's something wrong? So, that's one of the things that's challenging about hope. Then you have to acknowledge that it's possible, but it's not a guarantee. Right? Cause otherwise you just know something's gonna happen. You don't have any hope either. So, when you know that you want something, but you don't know if it's gonna happen, you're setting yourself up for potential disappointment. So, if you allow yourself to be happy, then you're setting yourself up for the potential slap in the face and disappointment

• 26:46Speaker 04

  if that happiness doesn't last and if this method doesn't work. So, a lot of times we're afraid to give ourself the possibility because we're afraid, oh, don't get too happy, because if you do, you know that next thing's gonna be coming and then you're gonna be disappointed. So, we're constantly protecting ourself from that potential disappointment by actually giving us, giving ourselves the same suffering that we're trying to protect ourselves against. It's really madness.

• 27:10Ed Mylett?

  Whoa. Whoa. I've never heard that said like that before, and I do it.

• 27:17Speaker 04

  Of course, I do it too.

• 27:18Ed Mylett?

  Yeah, I've done it. Yep. Wow, wow. So, one of the things I've worked on, at least in my question, but it stays on this topic too, is I'm big on state change. I'm just big on that, you know, and for me, obviously moving my body's been the key that I was asking you this earlier, but I wanna give you a chance to answer, because what you just said is so powerful, you know, I want, I didn't wanna move off of that. But like, everything I've seen with you, from stuff I've seen you doing with Jesse and Wim Hof and the, uh, is it the holy atrophic breathing?

• 27:49Speaker 04

  Holy atrophic, yeah.

• 27:50Ed Mylett?

  Yeah, so, speak to that a little bit, because I think it's a life-changing thing. I've been working on my breathing in different ways for about six months now, different methods. And I've landed on a few that I like, but I'd love your thoughts on it, because I think it's just one of these things we take for granted, that we, we don't do correctly or well.

• 28:07Speaker 04

  There's really three different levels. Now, there's lots of yogic type of breaths. They call it pranayama, and this is a practice that's been in the yogic tradition for thousands of years. I don't really lean that far that way where it's like through this nostril and out this nostril.

• 28:22Ed Mylett?

  Yeah.

• 28:22Speaker 04

  Counting these seconds. I've never found that to be that productive for me. But what I've found is there's three levels of breath work that are incredibly productive. And I'm in a season of my life right now where this is the most productive practice that I can engage in. So the first basic level is six deep breaths. And there's a Japanese study that I talk about in my book Own the Day. And it's actually something that I do every time I give a talk about Own the Day, or if I feel the audience is restless. Six deep breaths was proven in clinical research to actually alter and create state change. Not four, not five. Like everybody says, the colloquial way is, ah, take a deep breath. Well, that might not do anything, but six will. So you take six deep breaths, you're going to lower your blood pressure. You're going to create a state change from just that.

• 29:06Speaker 04

  So that's the very basics. So at any given point, six deep breaths, that's all it is. And once again, if you're not willing to do that, let's say you're angry, or let's say you're agitated and you don't want to do it, be curious as to why you don't want to do it, because it's going to work.

• 29:22Ed Mylett?

  Nose, nose breaths, nasal breaths, mouth breaths, doesn't matter.

• 29:25Speaker 04

  You know, Wim Hof, I think, I love the way Wim Hof says it. He says, you know, doesn't matter which hole, just get it in. You know, like whatever, whichever way you want to do it. Now, there's some benefits to nitric oxide production if you're breathing through your nose. So there's some, you know, physical performance elements that come through nose breathing that I think are worth paying attention to. But for what we're talking about, it's really about oxygen load. So either, either your nose or your mouth, both are going to work. But, you know, might as well benefit from the nitric oxide production, which is great for mood, is great for performance across the board. So if you can breathe through your nose, especially on the six deep ones, go for it. The next level is the Wim Hof breath.

• 30:05Speaker 04

  Now, this is somewhere between a full-on shamanic ceremonial level of breathing and, you know, the 60 breaths. So you're going to want to take 30 to 50 breaths and you'll actually start to feel an even deeper physiological change, perhaps some tingles in your fingers, perhaps your, you know, your face will get a little flushed, temperature regulation will change. And this is kind of the start of a deeper breathwork practice. It's great for cold exposure, you know, if you're going to go in to have a cold plunge practice, which is phenomenal, it's great to do this before. And you can actually start to enter in and kind of open up the, the Tupperware lid on some emotions that you might have, even, even from just doing the Wim Hof breath, even

• 30:47Speaker 04

  potentially start to get different ideas, thoughts, visions that might come through. So that's a great, you know, kind of second stop. Really good. And Wim Hof has a great app. He's got the Wim Hof method app. He's got a new book out. I just interviewed him on my podcast and lots of ways that you can learn the Wim Hof method, but it's pretty simple, all the way in. And then let it all out, but without the force on the exhale. You're not trying to go, you know, you just take it all in, belly, chest, head, and just let it fall right out of you. And, and that's the, that's basically the Wim Hof method. Now, the final, you know, the final place that you can take breath is a full-on visionary experience.

• 31:29Speaker 04

  And it's just like something you'd experience with the plant medicine, but there's no plants. It's just your breath. And for that, you're going to want to breathe in that same Wim Hof method, deep, you know, rapid breaths, you know, not, not super fast, like, but deep breaths, as fast as you can take them in for probably about six to 12 minutes, you know, depending. And you're going to have a lot of state change. Your hands might start to curl up and you're really going to be getting into your somatic body and getting into the places where you're storing some trauma, storing some emotions. And I'll tell you, you know, sometimes I'll go into that and it'll be just a beautiful kind of blissful experience.

• 32:11Speaker 04

  I have like five breathing playlists on my Spotify and it's always epic music and then beautiful music. But anyways, you go into that. And you breathe for about, you know, call it about eight minutes in the median. And then you go into a breath hold. And this is also a part of the Wim Hof practice. And there's two ways you can do it. You can breathe, you can hold your breath at the top, which is going to create even more oxygen. So if it's one of my favorite ways to do it is to hold my breath at the top. And there's also a way to hold your breath at the bottom. And that's not the absolute absence of air. It's kind of like the bottom, but not where you're pushing the last gasp of air out of your body. Now, the advantage of holding your breath to

• 32:52Speaker 04

  the bottom is it's going to trigger an adrenaline dump that's actually going to wash away cortisol. And so it's going to be less about the visionary space that you're going to be in, the release of emotions, but it's going to have some physiological benefits. And Wim Hof, you know, has done the research and done the study to show that holding your breath on the exhale is similar to bungee jumping as far as the adrenaline and norepinephrine, norepinephrine dump that you're going to have, which is an antagonist to the cortisol. So if you're stressed, it's going to be really interesting. And people think of adrenaline like, you know, a stress hormone. It's not. It's different. You know, it has a different function. It's cortisol. That's the stress hormone. And the adrenaline and norepinephrine combo is actually going

• 33:36Speaker 04

  to lower that. So anyways, for the Wim Hof, you may choose to hold your breath on the inhale or on the exhale. Either one will work. But for the shamanic breath or the holotropic breath, holotropic comes from a particular school by Dr. Stanislav Grof. But I just call it shamanic breath because it kind of canvases the whole topic. I like to hold it on the inhale and you hold for as long as you can. And in that space, and typically have a playlist where that's like the beautiful song. And then you have some like kind of warrior songs, some fiery songs while you're breathing. And then you break into that and you hold your breath. And, you know, I'm really surprised how many times that I have something that I don't, I can't even name. I don't even know what it is, but I'll just start sobbing. Just start sobbing, you

• 34:19Speaker 04

  know, not like the few tears that come from an inspirational movie or, you know, a touching moment, but like sobs that are shaking my body. And I just let them, I just let them go. And I don't even, as I said, like, there's no, I'm not crying because I'm thinking of my Grandma who passed, or I'm thinking of, you know, something, I'm not thinking about anything. It's just there, it's like stored in my body and I'm just taking the lid off and it's just releasing it. And sometimes it does get accompanied with a vision, some clarity, some insight. But a lot of times it's just moving some stuck energy that's in my body. So that practice for me, and I'll do three rounds of that. So it'll end up being about thirty, forty minutes.

• 35:03Speaker 04

  And it's, it's the best practice that I can do right now, you know, in the season that I'm in, for whatever reason. It just, after I'm done with that, I mean, I feel phenomenal.

• 35:15Ed Mylett?

  That's beautiful, brother. The one thing I love about you is like, you go deep once you're into something. You don't dabble. You know what I mean? I observe this about you. You go deep, you become an expert, you become very knowledgeable. And what I've noticed about you, I think this is just a lesson to take from Aubrey. I think it's your level of humility that makes you such a good student. Very rare that someone's achieved what you achieved, influences what you influence, the people you've come in contact with. You've maintained a level of humility where you still want to learn. It's really rare. It affects entrepreneurs. Once they start to climb too high, it affects people in all areas of their life. I just really admire that about you, brother. And you were saying, you know, the season of your life, I, I, I mean, I have one of the best

• 35:57Ed Mylett?

  people in the world on my show. I got to ask you this. This is a different season for a lot of people with what's going on with COVID and the businesses being shut down and, you know, being not moving maybe quite as much, not leaving their home quite as much in some areas. And as people are hearing this, that may even be more pronounced throughout the winter for the next month or two. I'm curious as to any thoughts you have that are specific to this exact time right now for people's wellness, optimizing their mindset, their, their mental health in general. Is there anything that you would say that's different about this time that you'd recommend to people? That's a practice or a thought that, you know, could really serve them through this time to optimize the time, actually thrive and not struggle so

• 36:42Ed Mylett?

  much and suffer? You're probably getting the messages I get. I just, I've never had so many messages from people that at least feel like they're experiencing suffering right now.

• 36:50Speaker 04

  Yeah, there's a, there's a lot to point to. For one, you know, we have to be really mindful of the state of fear that we're in because fear shuts down our executive function process. We're not going to be thinking clearly when we're afraid. So if you have that type of fear in your system, not only is, you know, your neurochemistry going to be altered, your hormone state's going to be altered, and your immune's function is going to be actually, you know, absolutely through the floor, you know, the moment that you're in that fear state, you're putting yourself in the worst position possible. So, understanding that you have to be able to manage and work through your fear, and a lot of that fear goes back to the fear of death. So really, you know, reckoning with your own mortality, you know,

• 37:32Speaker 04

  getting to that place where, you know, you've made peace with your death in some way, in whatever, whatever way that you can do that. Now, of course, the plant medicines have been a huge ally for me in my own quest with that. But we have to address fear because fear is a universal, you know, pressure on the human organism. It's going to cause us to make bad decisions, and it's also going to cause us to be way, way less healthy. So be mindful of the state of fear that you're in. Be aware of everything that's going on, but you don't have to engage with that level of chronic fear. The next thing is, you know, there's really powerful research coming out now about vitamin D. Yes. So, getting sun, supplementing with vitamin D, this is incredibly important. Also,

• 38:14Speaker 04

  the correlation between people having challenges with COVID and their obesity state and their metabolic health, this is a great time to double down and pay attention to your metabolic health. Start an intermittent fasting practice, you know, start shifting your macronutrient profile from, you know, heavy carbs and fried, you know, fried foods and omega six into something that's a little more keto, a little more carnivore, whatever you want to go, but try and support your metabolic health in a, in a really productive way. And then the other thing to really pay attention to is, right, if you look at, you know, the number one predictor of early all-cause mortality, it's not cigarettes, and it's

• 38:58Speaker 04

  not cancer, and it's not obesity, it's loneliness.

• 39:02Speaker 04

  Literally loneliness is the number one predictor of early mortality. Human beings, we are social creatures. We thrive in community, in tribe, in family. And so all of this advice telling us to stay as far away from people as possible, it will kill us. It literally will kill us. So be mindful that this is not just one virus. We're dealing with a lot of different factors here. And we cannot have a cure that's worse than the cause. You know, so whatever your own beliefs and whatever precautions you want to take, that's fine, but understand that you have to feel connected. You have to have that human connection. It's just wired in to who we are as human beings.

• 39:45Speaker 04

  And you can look at all of the clinical research to back this up. You know, about loneliness. Um, it's incredibly important that we stay connected, like both physically and emotionally connected to people during this time, because in any hardship, I mean, you can read Sebastian Junger's book Tribe, right? Like the reason why even when the bombs were falling on London from the Nazi Blitzkrieg, people found a deep sense of happiness and satisfaction during that period, because they were all pulling together. They were all huddled close. They, if someone had a sandwich, then their neighbor had half a sandwich. And that sense of community was what allowed them to thrive through that. So be really careful with your isolation practices,

• 40:28Speaker 04

  because that's just going to drive you in a direction that's, you know, quite dangerous.

• 40:35Ed Mylett?

  What did you believe when you were young that you no longer believe now? Even a few years ago, something that you held to be really true, that you go, you know, I just don't hold that belief anymore.

• 40:46Speaker 04

  I think I believed that eh, everything's gonna pretty much stay the same. You know, like everything's gonna be some variation of the same. And we're gonna live in this kind of lifetime of not being in any extremes. It's really interesting because, you know, I'm about to turn 40, but we've had some conflicts, you could call them wars, but they've been so far away from us. Like, it's not like the Vietnam War, then of course before, then there was the world wars and these big things. We haven't had a big thing like that happen. Of course, there was nine 11 and that was incredibly tragic and heartbreaking, but it was so fast. And there hasn't really been anything that's really shaken up the status quo.

• 41:31Speaker 04

  So it allows you to be a little bit selfish and a little bit kind of, and also kind of a little lazy in some degree because you're really just like, all right, well, I want to be successful and I want to put out these messages and I want to do this thing and I want to, you know, serve people, but there's no desperate need because things are all going to be kind of the same.

• 41:47Ed Mylett?

  Yeah.

• 41:48Speaker 04

  And I think this year it's, it's really come to my attention that, oh no, maybe not. You know, maybe things all of the sudden won't be the same. And there may be a bell that's rung out there in the world that says, okay, you know, warriors of the light step forward because now is the time. And I've felt that and I've felt that and the bell's still, it's ringing, but it's a little bit faint. But just hearing that and knowing like, oh, there may be a time where I may have to sacrifice everything to step forward and give everything I got to the world because the world really needs it.

• 42:27Speaker 04

  And that's something that's, that's something that's come online for sure.

• 42:32Ed Mylett?

  That's not a minor thing that's come up. I mean, that's absolutely wonderful, man. And I, by the way, I think you're called to do that. You're one of those people. And um, let me get last thing I want to ask you. Like this has really been an emotional interview for me. Just be candid with you, brother. When you said that about life and allowing yourself to enjoy it, it's just stunning to me that this like this was meant to be.

• 42:56Ed Mylett?

  But let's go to the average person watching this for a minute. They spent this, you know, 45 minutes to an hour with us. They've learned a whole lot. I mean, obviously things they've never heard before as well. But they're sitting there and they're going, hey, man, like, I love that you've got so much to offer. My let seems like he's got something to offer. You know what? But I don't, you know, I don't know that I have anything to offer. I don't know that I matter. I don't know that I have anything to bring to the table. I think there's a. Epidemic almost in our culture in our world today of people feeling really invisible. I just really do. And I think I've seen you talk about this a little bit, just like you're so eloquent to speaking to someone's purpose, someone's soul, someone's meaning, their value.

• 43:38Ed Mylett?

  What would you say to someone, it's the holidays, man? That loneliness thing is really rearing its head up right now. I'm invisible, I'm lonely, I don't have anything to offer to the world. What would you say to someone feeling those things, which I think a lot of people are?

• 43:54Speaker 04

  We all have medicine for the world. We all do. And every single one of us, and I think we can get caught in a trap of comparing, you know, some external metric about the size of that medicine. You know, and then say, oh, what am I doing that matters? I remember, I'll give an example, I fell in this trap. And I was, you know, I've done my podcast for eight, nine years now. And around year three, you know, my podcast was just kind of stuck at about 20,000 downloads. Every show and I couldn't get it to grow and I couldn't get it go anywhere. And I just kind of was like, ah, you know, and I'm friends with Joe Rogan and

• 44:34Speaker 04

  his show is getting millions upon millions and then, you know, and I'm looking at this and I'm friends with Lewis Howes and his show's growing and I'm friends with all of Tim Ferriss and his show and I'm, I'm thinking like, ah, what's my little show with 20,000 people? And then I had a friend of mine go, what the fuck is wrong with you? Have you ever been to a basketball game? How many people are in that stadium? I'm like, well, you know, great western forum, I think there was 16,000. Like, okay, so you have more than that, listening to your podcast? And you're gonna lose, you know, you're gonna lose faith in that? And I was like, oh, yeah. But even me, so what I'm, the point of that is, is that even I was measuring my own worth based upon some other standard that made me feel like what I was doing. And you can bring that all the way down to the individual.

• 45:19Speaker 04

  Your medicine, if you're serving just that one person in your family or your partner or that random stranger, then instead of that, you know, Negative encounter that you have, you have a positive encounter, you have something that's plenty. That's just as good. There's no, there's no external metric to value your own worth. Like you being who you are, nobody else can be that. You're an instrument in the symphony of the divine. And you just gotta play it. You gotta play whatever, you know, you could be the piccolo or you could be the tuba. It doesn't fucking matter. It's just an instrument. You know, you're an instrument. I'm an instrument. Every single person is an instrument. Some have different amplifications, but it doesn't matter.

• 46:02Speaker 04

  We're just playing our instrument and we all have to play our instrument to play the symphony of God. We have to. So, you know, that's the only way that it's gonna play. So, you know, just stay away from all of these external metrics and external validations because it's a slippery slope. And you think like, oh, well, if I was reaching a thousand people, then it would matter. No, it won't. Cause then you look at the person with 5,000. Then when you get to 5,000, you get to need to get to 50. And then when you get to 50, you'll need to get 5 million. It won't work. Like it won't work. You won't find satisfaction from that. You'll only get satisfaction from playing your instrument, serving your medicine, no matter who it reaches.

• 46:40Ed Mylett?

  That's awesome. I gotta, gotta tell you, just gotta say, Aubrey was supposed to be on for me today, you guys, and you got to listen. But I have that tendency too. And I just want to share this lastly to validate your point. And then I'm gonna thank you, bro, because you're so awesome. My dad, when he passed, my dad was sober like 34 years. My dad's a simple man. And, uh, you know, I am blessed like you are to reach lots of people with my messages. And you would think it's all the scale. My dad didn't want a funeral, guys. And so what my dad did have though, is about a couple of weeks after he passed away, his local AA group said, we're gonna meet at a park and just honor your dad. And so, and I didn't really want to go, to be honest with you. I don't know who these people are because it's an anonymous organization and I didn't think my dad would like it.

• 47:21Ed Mylett?

  But turns out me, my whole family, my mom, all the grandchildren, the children all go to this thing. And then people started getting up one by one. And my dad's name was Ed Mylett, Aubrey. But just in his small way, you know, the first man I got up said, I've known Ed Mylett 32 and a half years and he saved my life. And it was at a simple breakfast. Next guy gets up. I served 10 years. You know, big old jacked up dude, tatted up, totally different guy. Ed Mylett changed my life. He walked across a meeting and just introduced himself and said, hey, I'm here if you need any help. Small little gestures like that. And it occurred to me. That my dad lived a great life and he mattered and he didn't just matter to our family and it was small things that may seem small but are huge in the souls and the spirits

• 48:05Ed Mylett?

  of other people's lives, exactly what Aubrey just said. And so, don't discount what Aubrey just told you. You make a difference for one person in your classroom if you're a school teacher, or one person walks by you at the grocery store, you give them a smile, or a hello, and at rough time, or you just see them when they need to be seen. You are making a difference in the world and changing it. So, you couldn't be more right, bro. So eloquent. I loved today, and you're coming back on.

• 48:31Speaker 04

  Hell yeah, man. Let's go. I loved today too, man. This is just the beginning.

• 48:34Ed Mylett?

  Yeah, it really is, man. We covered a lot of things today. You guys follow Aubrey. We'll put his Instagram up on the YouTube here. He's got programs that you can take a look at. This guy's got a group, a tribe that he's built that's remarkable. We didn't even get into the entrepreneur stuff, but he's built an amazing company. There's just a depth of reservoir of information with this man that's very unique, and I'm really proud that I've had you on, bro. Thank you for today.

• 48:58Speaker 04

  It was amazing, man. It was a real honor, and I look forward to way more of this. We'll have to do a show on my show, too.

• 49:04Ed Mylett?

  I'd love that, brother. Hey, everybody. Max out two-minute drill, Instagram. I make a comment. If I make a post every day, make a comment first two minutes. You're in a draw and get coached by me, meet my guests, go on the jet, go to events, get gear. If you miss the first two minutes, just make a comment every day and reply to people's comments. I'm there to engage with you. Aubrey Marcus has been on this show because of the hundreds of DMs I've received from you guys over the last year saying, please get him on. And so, that's why I want to connect with you. God bless you all. Max out.

• 49:38Speaker 03

  This is the Ed Miliband Show.