Pod Insights The Dr. John Delony Show My Husband Refuses to Let Things Go About this episode 🔥 Microhabits for a better marriage. Download the Together app.
On today’s episode, we hear about:
A wife wondering how to help her husband declutter their lives
A mom struggling to date after the untimely death of her husband
A new mom whose husband dismisses her postpartum depression
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Transcript 10,679 words · 5 speakers
Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:05 Speaker 00 I guess it sounds like a hoarder saying that, but we're not. Letting go of something fully seems hard for him.
0:11 Dr. John Delony? He's got memories attached to things. He sees some sort of utility or possible. He's trying to solve a future problem with a current thing, right?
0:21 Dr. John Delony? What does declutter mean to you?
0:29 Dr. John Delony? What's up? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show. Coming to you from Nashville, Tennessee, taking your calls on everything, whatever's going on in your life, your mental and emotional health, your marriages, your kids, the traumas you've got in your life, the challenges you've got, whatever you're wrestling with, here's my promise, I'll sit with you and together we can try to light the way to the next right step. I've got two PhDs. I've been sitting with hurting people for more than two decades. This is what I do and I'm so honored by the bravery and the courage of the callers on this show. And if you want to be one of those folks, go to johndeloney.com/ask, A-S-K.
1:09 Dr. John Delony? And yes, we take calls from all over the world, always getting calls from all, I'm getting direct messages and notes from people from all over the planet. Yes, we'd love to take your call and we will figure out a way to get you on. Let's go to Detroit Rock City and talk to Kimberly. What's up Kimberly?
1:27 Speaker 00 Hi, Dr. John.
1:29 Dr. John Delony? How are you doing?
1:30 Speaker 00 I'm doing great. It's 46 degrees in Michigan and I'm a mail carrier, so I can't complain. How do we declutter our home together when we don't see eye to eye on it? But for the sake of our children is where I feel nervous in the future if we don't do something about it now.
1:49 Dr. John Delony? Okay, tell me what's going on. What's the thing beneath the thing?
1:53 Speaker 00 Um, so I guess it sounds like a hoarder saying that, but we're not. It's just, we have so much clutter in our homes and things that we have collected from years of just of life and decluttering for him seems way more difficult than it is for me. I'm willing to throw out anything, donate, get rid of it. If I haven't used it, I want it gone. And for him, it's not the same way. He has a reason why we have to keep everything.
2:20 Dr. John Delony? Gotcha.
2:22 Dr. John Delony? Um, how old are you guys?
2:25 Speaker 00 I'm thirty-three and he's thirty-eight.
2:27 Dr. John Delony? How long have you all been married?
2:29 Speaker 00 Uh, three years.
2:31 Dr. John Delony? Okay, is this the first marriage for both of you?
2:33 Speaker 00 Yes.
2:34 Dr. John Delony? Okay, so you all, you all had independent lives before you all got married?
2:39 Speaker 00 Right.
2:40 Dr. John Delony? Which meant you all had independent stuff and independent way of doing things and independent ways of coping with various anxieties and stressors and whatever.
2:48 Speaker 00 Right.
2:49 Dr. John Delony? Okay, so, um,
2:52 Dr. John Delony? backing out even further than the clutter, we'll get to the clutter because I got some pretty, pretty concrete thoughts, um, and some database based thoughts on clutter.
3:01 Speaker 00 Okay.
3:01 Dr. John Delony? Where are other places, give me an example of another place, where a twenty-seven-year-old marries a thirty-five-year-old and y'all have struggled, and it doesn't have to be a bad struggle, right? But where y'all are like, uh, trying to combine lives?
3:19 Speaker 00 I don't, honestly, I don't think in other areas we struggled at all. It was everything combining, like even when we talked about our childhoods, we were so, everything was so similar. Like we meshed so well and so perfectly. And I still think we do, except getting rid of clutter seems to be an issue.
3:38 Dr. John Delony? So, tell me about this clutter. Is he a collector? Does he have a bunch of like Pokemon cards? Is he a, uh, prepper?
3:45 Speaker 00 No.
3:45 Dr. John Delony? Is he like me? He's got stuff?
3:48 Speaker 00 Well, I, okay, so I'd say he's more of a prepper, more of a, um,
3:55 Speaker 00 we might need this type of thing.
3:56 Dr. John Delony? Ah, okay.
3:57 Speaker 00 Um.
3:57 Dr. John Delony? So give me an example of some of the clutter.
4:00 Speaker 00 Okay, so like the other week, I bought a whole new set of pots and pans.
4:04 Dr. John Delony? Okay.
4:05 Speaker 00 Because all the other ones are bad. And instead of getting rid of all of the other ones, we have to keep a few just in case, you know? It's like, no, no, no, why would we do that? But, so then in our garage, we have a shelf with all these things that we're never gonna touch, but it takes up space. So it's nothing like extreme of like, oh, well, there's a whole room full of this because he collects this. It's just like letting go of something fully seems hard for him.
4:31 Dr. John Delony? Okay.
4:33 Speaker 00 Um.
4:33 Dr. John Delony? And when you've talked to him about it, what does he say?
4:35 Speaker 00 Memory. So when I talk to him about it, he's open-minded and we, um, we're both on the same page. And I'm, I'm not great at organizing either, that's part of the problem here. Um, but when it comes down to actually getting rid of things.
4:52 Speaker 00 It's like the space still isn't empty and we don't have.
4:58 Speaker 00 It's like we're not decluttering the way he thinks we are.
5:01 Dr. John Delony? Okay.
5:01 Speaker 00 Or at least to my expectations, I guess.
5:04 Dr. John Delony? So let's, let's reverse this. So he doesn't want to get rid of stuff. He's got memories attached to things. He sees some sort of utility or possible, he's trying to solve a future problem with a current thing, right?
5:18 Dr. John Delony? What does declutter mean to you?
5:22 Speaker 00 I feel like we, it would make cleaning the house way easier.
5:26 Dr. John Delony? Nope, not what I'm asking, not what I'm asking.
5:27 Speaker 00 Oh.
5:28 Dr. John Delony? I want you to give him, and so I want you to give me, but you're actually talking to him. What is a finish line?
5:36 Dr. John Delony? When would he be able to drop his shoulders and say, we are officially decluttered?
5:42 Speaker 00 Hmm. I guess when we have empty spaces so that we have room for our young family to continue growing in the house. Like actual, like a closet doesn't have to be packed just because we're living there right now. There can be empty shelves because our kids are young. They're only going to bring more stuff in. And I feel like as of now, we don't have space to do that.
6:05 Dr. John Delony? So what if
6:09 Dr. John Delony? you're both trying to solve future problems in the present?
6:16 Speaker 00 Yeah, that might be happening.
6:17 Dr. John Delony? You with the idea of an empty shelf and him with the idea of full closets just in case.
6:26 Speaker 00 Yeah, that's, that's what's happening, huh?
6:28 Dr. John Delony? Because if you get to, because when, when people say they want to declutter, and this is me too. This is why Joshua Fields Milburn and the Minimalist Gang are close friends of mine. Dawn Madsen of Minimal Mom, she's a close friend. Like what they do for people like me who have a natural bent towards handling anxious anxiety. Future problems, dragging them into the present. And I try to do that with stuff, with being prepared, right? Um, they help me unwind, like you need this many shirts, this many pants, this like, they help me have, have a definition. Because sometimes people want to declutter because they have, they just have too many clothes in the closet. And I got, it's, it's unmanageable for me. It's anxiety inducing every morning trying to sift through. Does this fit? Is this not, do I still like this, whatever?
7:13 Dr. John Delony? But some people want to declutter and the finish line just keeps moving.
7:19 Speaker 00 Right.
7:19 Dr. John Delony? Because we've never tried, we've never established what we're trying to get to.
7:24 Speaker 00 Right. Yeah, I guess it's fair because we've, we've never actually established that or talked about that. It's always just like, let's get rid of things. And that's probably overwhelming for him.
7:34 Dr. John Delony? It's, I, I would suggest, I may be wrong, but I would, because he's not on the phone, but your idea of let's just get rid of all of it. And he's like, for what though? And you're like, for an empty shelf.
7:45 Speaker 00 Right.
7:46 Dr. John Delony? That might be as anxiety inducing as, why are we keeping two of these pots? And he's like, just in case. And you're going, for what?
7:54 Speaker 00 Right.
7:55 Dr. John Delony? Like, so when it comes to your kids, here's what I want to be very careful of. I'm assuming your kids are really young?
8:01 Speaker 00 Yeah, two and nine months.
8:03 Dr. John Delony? Okay. Please do me this huge favor. Actually, you're not doing me a favor at all. Do you, your husband and your children this favor, okay?
8:11 Speaker 00 Okay.
8:12 Dr. John Delony? Don't make them the reason
8:17 Dr. John Delony? for addressing hard things that you and your husband need to work through.
8:21 Speaker 00 We've always talked about decluttering since we've been together. And now that the kids are here and young, they are, they are the reason I keep pushing this.
8:30 Dr. John Delony? Okay.
8:31 Speaker 00 And I keep talking about it.
8:32 Dr. John Delony? So bring, bring back that fear into the middle of your chest where you as the adult have the strength to carry it.
8:40 Speaker 00 Okay.
8:41 Dr. John Delony? And, and ask yourself, have we created two people who love each other? Who are all game on, where it sounds like you like this guy, which is awesome.
8:52 Speaker 00 Yeah, no, he's, he's great.
8:53 Dr. John Delony? Okay. And it sounds like he likes you, right?
8:56 Speaker 00 Yeah.
8:57 Dr. John Delony? Yeah, that's amazing. Okay. So you got two awesome people here who are still like, we're just three years in to unpacking like the old lives that we had that were stable and good and whatever. And now we're trying to combine them. We've accidentally created an anxious house.
9:17 Speaker 00 Right.
9:18 Dr. John Delony? And that could be everything from money to secrets, to fitness and health, to any, to work stress, any number of things. And it gets, and it shows up over here.
9:35 Dr. John Delony? And what most people spend their lives doing is playing whack a mole with symptoms. I want to hang on to this. Well, I want an empty shelf. Well, I want an empty shelf. I want to hang on to this. When really the core issue is, how do we anchor in deeply and create a very non-anxious house?
9:54 Dr. John Delony? Which gives everybody the margin to say, you know what, I really think we're going to need those pens someday, but fine, throw them away.
10:01 Dr. John Delony? And or I really would like just there to be nothing on that shelf, but there's some books and we're all gonna live.
10:08 Speaker 00 Right.
10:08 Dr. John Delony? Right. Because by the way, your young kids, they can only bring into the house what you allow them to bring in.
10:17 Speaker 00 Right. No, that's totally fair. That makes sense. Um, because that's the first thing he brought up when we were talking about it was there's so many toys. I'm like, well, the toys don't bother me because they're just going to be everywhere right now. It's, it's like the spaces that make for me cleaning the house feels way harder when it doesn't seem like everything has a home because the closets are full of things that we don't even use, like old sheets from GamGam who made them years ago that we're still holding on to.
10:48 Dr. John Delony? Listen, GamGam sheets are real. I'm just kidding. Alright, so, but what I just
10:53 Speaker 00 And that's something that I'm like, are you kidding? And then one day, this was years ago even, he bagged those up and took them to his mom's house. Which is fine, they're not in my house, but what are they gonna do there? Just collect dust?
11:03 Dr. John Delony? I, I know, and but I've also been through the exercise, I've talked about on the show before, where I just kept my granddad, who's one of my heroes, gave me an old tweed jacket when he, and I was working at the university, he gave me an old jacket. He was like, this looks like it. I, it never fit from the moment he handed it to me. And I think I moved that to like seven different houses or five different houses. Before I went through like, and it was a psychological unwinding. I literally had to say out loud to myself, my grandfather's not in this jacket.
11:32 Speaker 00 Right, right.
11:34 Dr. John Delony? And that was hard, right? I could only do that when I was getting well and being honest about other things. So what I heard you just say is actually the thing beneath the thing beneath the thing kind of leaked out.
11:48 Speaker 00 Oh, God. What was it?
11:49 Dr. John Delony? Do you think you live in a messy, in a gross house?
11:53 Speaker 00 No, I don't think it's gross.
11:54 Dr. John Delony? Okay.
11:55 Speaker 00 I think it's very clean, it's just not organized. And that bothers me because I'm usually the primary person cleaning.
12:01 Dr. John Delony? Okay. So is any of this about shared responsibilities at your house?
12:07 Speaker 00 No.
12:08 Dr. John Delony? No? Okay. Awesome.
12:10 Speaker 00 I don't think so.
12:12 Dr. John Delony? Is any of this about this pervasive sense that there's something that I haven't cleaned yet?
12:19 Speaker 00 Probably. That, I mean, that bothers me. Because, yeah. Yeah. It just feels like there's so much, it's just, it's like, it gives me anxiety thinking about how much stuff we have that we don't even use.
12:29 Dr. John Delony? And what's the root of that anxiety?
12:33 Dr. John Delony? Is it that you have too much and there's needy people out there? Is it that, um, you're not being good stewards of your money? Like, what, what is the root of that anxiety?
12:43 Speaker 00 I mean, maybe that's part of it, being good stewards of their money, because I feel like even the stuff we hold on to, that's like, oh, we might need this one day. When that day comes, we can't really, you don't know where you put it. You don't know which box it's in, in the basement. So then you're just buying some, you know what I mean? It's like, you're not even using what you're holding on to because you put it in a box in a closet. And then now it's just sitting there in storage. And I feel like if we're putting it away, or saving it, or holding on to it, we should just get rid of it or donate it. Because there's no reason to hold on to something, don't sit it, let it sit there.
13:13 Dr. John Delony? Okay. So hanging on to things excessively, to the point that they begin to pile up. And over time, like you mentioned, hoarding is kind of the worst, like, all the way down the, the, you know, outside the bell curve, right?
13:25 Speaker 00 We're, we're not hoarders by any means.
13:27 Dr. John Delony? No, I know, I know. But also, if, if his mom is, or if his dad is, or his sister is, you can see where this is heading, right?
13:34 Speaker 00 That's the thing, though, and his mom's house is like, empty. She doesn't, and maybe that's the opposite of it.
13:40 Dr. John Delony? Right?
13:41 Speaker 00 Yeah.
13:41 Dr. John Delony? Maybe that's it.
13:42 Speaker 00 Because I was thinking about this the other day, like, she, I mean, she has, she has a living room that's literally empty.
13:47 Dr. John Delony? When my granddad passed away, we found old coffee cans that he had saved, full of nails that he had straightened. Why? Because he was born and raised during the Great Depression.
13:58 Speaker 00 Right.
13:59 Dr. John Delony? Right? And so I can look at him and say, that's crazy. But his nervous system said, there, we might run out of nails.
14:07 Speaker 00 Mm-hmm.
14:07 Dr. John Delony? Right? And so if your husband grew up in a home where we have nothing...
14:11 Speaker 00 Right.
14:12 Dr. John Delony? It makes sense. It doesn't make it right, but it gives me a context that says, "Man, he's hanging on to stuff because he has been a kid who said, 'We have nothing, and I don't ever want my kids to feel that again.'"
14:24 Speaker 00 Right.
14:24 Dr. John Delony? And you may have grown up in a home where cleanliness, if you're not clean, you're something wrong with you. I'm making something up, right? But you might have this... There was stuff, my dad had deer heads and posters and whatever on the wall. "I want nothing on the wall. I need everything..." Here's what I'm getting at. Fighting about the clean shelf versus the not-clean shelf, and y'all aren't fighting, I know, but y'all have discussions. That ends up being a proxy war for, "Here's what peace feels like for me.
14:53 Dr. John Delony? And tell me what peace feels like for you." And it might be that you say, "I would feel loved. A way you can love me is give me two completely empty closets."
15:07 Speaker 00 He would tell you that most of the closets are already mine.
15:10 Dr. John Delony? Well, I know he would, but we're getting like... And for my wife, John, I know you have tons of guitar stuff and you have your old punk rock memorabilia, and you've got all your hunting gear and your weird camo outfits. That's what she calls them, my outfits.
15:25 Dr. John Delony? But they all stay in one place.
15:28 Speaker 00 Right.
15:28 Dr. John Delony? And she says, "I don't really go in there."
15:32 Dr. John Delony? And that's... And again, some of that's just like, that's how we make peace. But it is us getting to the core thing, which is, "My wife really craves order, and I love her enough that I want to give her what she craves."
15:44 Speaker 00 Right.
15:45 Dr. John Delony? And my wife knows. She married a guy who's always looking over the next hill to make sure his family's okay. And sometimes he looks over 19 hills ahead and he makes up stories and tries to... But I love him, and so let's come to that place.
15:59 Speaker 00 Right.
15:59 Dr. John Delony? Right? But if she was always saying,
16:03 Dr. John Delony? "It's too cluttered. Get rid of it. Get rid of it. We just need to get rid of it." I would, my impulse would be to grab and hold.
16:11 Speaker 00 I guess that makes sense.
16:12 Dr. John Delony? Because she would be enacting the exact fear I have.
16:16 Speaker 00 Right, right, right. Yeah, that makes sense.
16:18 Dr. John Delony? And so here's the question I want you to ask each other. Right?
16:22 Speaker 00 Okay.
16:25 Dr. John Delony? We've talked about clutter. We've talked about decluttering. We disagree on how we do it. All that's fine, well and good. By the way, check out The Minimalists. They have a 30-day decluttering program. The Minimalist mom, Dawn Mattson, she has programs for decluttering. They're amazing and they go in small steps. So they're palatable for most folks. If you're struggling with hoarding disorder, then it's a whole other thing. But those are the two resources that I use in my house, okay? But get to this question. When it comes to decluttering, how can I best love you while we donate and sell things to folks who will need them?
17:06 Dr. John Delony? And then answer him, here's how you can love me when it comes to creating a little more order, a little more clarity in our home. Too much clutter does create anxiety.
17:19 Dr. John Delony? And sometimes anxiety is the pathway towards accumulation and clutter, which turns into pathological down the road. So there is a relationship between lots of clutter and feeling anxious all the time. And it's recursive. Sometimes it starts one way and ends the other, and sometimes it starts one way and ends yet another. But let's get to the thing beneath the thing beneath the thing. We both agree we've got to declutter. We're not agreeing on how we can do it. Let's wipe the table and say, okay, we got a bunch of stuff here. I don't feel safe in a house with 72 pots and pans. It's too much. It overwhelms me. And the thought of getting rid of all of them overwhelms you. Okay, so what's a path forward for both of
18:02 Dr. John Delony? us? How can I love you? And how can you love me? And my hope is, y'all are both awesome people, that that means I'm going to be uncomfortable and I'm going to give away a bunch of these pots and pans. And also, you know what? I've got these two closets that are completely clean. I'm going to give him the stinking basement. Fill it up, brother. Fill it up. As long as everybody's safe and there's no rats down there, whatever. You know what? Keep your box full of shenanigans, right? It's finding that thing beneath the thing beneath the thing. I think y'all on the right track. I think it's just part of joining families. And I also think this is a great example of two people who love each other. Both kind of want the same thing and they don't know how to get there.
18:45 Dr. John Delony? And suddenly that becomes the fight when really where I want y'all to connect is, how can I best love you in this moment? And loving you is going to cause me some internal discomfort and that's okay. Because you, our marriage, are more important than me feeling ah all the time. Both and. You're awesome. Thank you so much for the call. We come back, a widowed woman asks if she should start dating or wait until her teenage daughter is all grown up.
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21:36 Dr. John Delony? All right, we're back. Hey, like or subscribe. Do all that stuff. Really helps the show. Hit the subscribe and like button. It will get Kelly off my back. All right, let's go to Los Angeles, California and talk to Christine. What's up Christine?
21:52 Speaker 02 Hi, Dr. John. How are you?
21:53 Dr. John Delony? I'm good. How are you?
21:55 Speaker 02 I'm good.
21:55 Dr. John Delony? What's up?
21:57 Speaker 02 Um, I have one of those questions that seem simple, but if you ask like five different people, you'll get five different answers, right? So I wanted your, your input on it. Um, so I am 45 years old. I'm a widow. Um, my husband was killed by a drunk driver in 2021.
22:16 Dr. John Delony? My goodness gracious.
22:18 Speaker 02 Yeah, it was, I mean, that will just pick your whole world upside down and just shake it for years.
22:24 Dr. John Delony? Yeah. What was his name?
22:26 Speaker 02 Uh, Will.
22:27 Dr. John Delony? Was he awesome?
22:29 Speaker 02 Yeah, yeah, he was. Uh, and I miss him every day.
22:33 Dr. John Delony? Yeah. Do you all have kids?
22:35 Speaker 02 Uh, yeah, we have one daughter. Uh, she was eight at the time and she'll be 13 soon. Yeah, yeah.
22:42 Dr. John Delony? What a nightmarish last five years, huh?
22:45 Speaker 02 Yeah, it was, it's been challenging. Um, I mean, I don't know how much detail you want or not, but like the first year we were just basically in shock and then, you know, the second year I focused on my daughter and like helping her process the grief and everything.
23:03 Speaker 02 And then, you know, year three, we were kind of like, um, but year three is when I sort of like, when she was getting better, that's when I sort of allowed myself to fall apart a little bit and process my own grief, you know, with the help of therapists and all of that. And then year four was kind of like finding a new normal. And then this past year, year five, we've sort of been, you know, like coming into our own. So.
23:28 Dr. John Delony? Can I just applaud you? Is that okay?
23:30 Speaker 02 Oh, yeah. Thank you. I appreciate that.
23:33 Dr. John Delony? Like, that's the most beautiful picture of an awful situation. I think I've heard somebody paint in a long, long time.
23:40 Speaker 02 Oh, thank you. Well, you know, it's, it's easy to, you know, when you look back on it, it's easier to describe.
23:46 Dr. John Delony? Yeah, it's a numbing zombie-like nightmare.
23:49 Speaker 02 Yeah.
23:50 Dr. John Delony? But you look back and you can kind of see some order to it. And you have handled this so amazing as a mom and as a, as a friend and as a widow. My God, like, awesome.
24:01 Speaker 02 Well, thank you so much. I really appreciate that.
24:03 Dr. John Delony? Amazing, amazing.
24:04 Speaker 02 So my question is, um, you know, we're both in a good place right now. Like, she's got a good group of friends. She's doing well in school. And, you know, I've got a good social support network and I found some balance in my life. And we kind of like, you know, we sort of sunk into a new normal. And so my question is, should I wait until she is grown to start dating? Because in today's society, you have to date with intention. And so it kind of feels like, you know, going to look for a job in some ways. And I don't want to take, I don't want to mess up what we have. You know what I mean? Like, I don't want to open Pandora's box.
24:44 Dr. John Delony? Yeah.
24:45 Speaker 02 But on the other hand, Carpe Diem. And then there's like this idea of maybe she needs, you know, a male figure in her life as an example. So I just kind of wanted your thoughts on that.
24:55 Dr. John Delony? You won't like my answer. Is that okay?
24:59 Speaker 02 Okay. Okay. Yeah, let's hear it.
25:01 Dr. John Delony? Um, I got two things you won't like. One, you might roll your eyes at, and that's totally okay. And it's easy for me to say, because as of this moment, I'm not dating, right? I'm, like you, I'm one car ride away from my whole life changing, right?
25:16 Speaker 02 Right.
25:17 Dr. John Delony? But right now, I'm not dating. So it's easy for me to say what I'm about to say.
25:19 Speaker 02 Okay.
25:21 Dr. John Delony? I reject wholeheartedly.
25:25 Dr. John Delony? What the umbrella culture is telling us about dating.
25:29 Speaker 02 Okay.
25:30 Dr. John Delony? So I want you to join me in rejecting job application-esque LinkedIn profile-esque type of meeting people.
25:40 Speaker 02 Yeah, yeah. Well, I did. I did sort of dip my toes in the water last year. I wasn't really ready, but I tried the dating apps and
25:49 Dr. John Delony? God almighty, no!
25:51 Speaker 02 They're worthless. They're totally worthless. And by the way, when you turn 45 as a woman, all of a sudden the cute guys completely disappear.
25:59 Dr. John Delony? Just get out of that madness.
26:01 Speaker 02 Yeah, I'm out. I'm done. Yeah, no more of that.
26:03 Dr. John Delony? No more of that.
26:04 Speaker 02 Yeah.
26:04 Dr. John Delony? Okay, I can tell by talking to you that you're charming, you're very smart, you're very, very strong. What do you do for a living?
26:12 Speaker 02 I'm a tenured faculty.
26:13 Dr. John Delony? Okay, yes, you're very smart. And also, you know how to like, follow insane people's protocols to get what you like. Let me say it this way, you're a catch, okay?
26:23 Speaker 02 Oh, thank you. I appreciate that.
26:24 Dr. John Delony? So don't get on... You're not applying for nothing.
26:30 Speaker 02 Yeah, yeah, that helps.
26:32 Dr. John Delony? By flipping that around and saying, "I'm worth having fun."
26:38 Speaker 02 Yeah.
26:38 Dr. John Delony? And "I'm worth having fun with."
26:41 Speaker 02 Yeah.
26:42 Dr. John Delony? And "I am not going to outsource my belief in myself to stupid algorithms. I'm not going to outsource... I'm not going to sell... I'm not going to change how I interact with the world because this is what quote-unquote "culture" is telling me." Culture is insane right now.
26:58 Speaker 02 Yes, I agree.
26:59 Dr. John Delony? So they don't get to tell me anything.
27:01 Speaker 02 Yes.
27:02 Dr. John Delony? Right? "I'm going to solve for peace." And right now, solving for peace might be feeling like you're 14 again. Like, "Does he like me? And do I like him? And am I ready?" And all those like feelings come back, right?
27:15 Speaker 02 That's so scary.
27:16 Dr. John Delony? It's terrifying. And, and you know this. What's your field of study?
27:22 Speaker 02 Anthropology.
27:23 Dr. John Delony? Okay, duh. Okay, you especially know this.
27:25 Speaker 02 Yeah, I do.
27:26 Dr. John Delony? The only good stuff is on the other side of those feelings.
27:33 Speaker 02 Yeah, that's true.
27:34 Dr. John Delony? Right? You know that. So here's the second thing you're gonna really hate. Do not, and this is gonna sound like an accusation, it kind of is, but same team, right? Don't. Please don't cast your anxious- anxiousness on her.
27:52 Speaker 02 Oh, no. Yeah.
27:53 Dr. John Delony? What she needs is a regulated, sturdy, joyful mom who also has real human emotions, the good stuff, the bad stuff, the whatever.
28:04 Speaker 02 Yeah, and that's, sorry, go ahead.
28:06 Dr. John Delony? You're not gonna mess her up just because you started dating. If you compromise your values, if you're not honest with her, if you hide stuff from her, that will mess her up.
28:17 Speaker 02 Okay.
28:18 Dr. John Delony? Okay, but, and, how old is she?
28:22 Speaker 02 She's almost 13.
28:23 Dr. John Delony? Okay, so we can just expect for the next five years, she will judge everything you do or don't do, she'll make up stories, and her stories will be largely inaccurate. But that's because she's 13, not because she's a survivor of, right?
28:37 Speaker 02 Okay, yeah.
28:38 Dr. John Delony? It will intensify those feelings, it will intensify those judgments. But having a mom who has paused her life for the next five years is also a meta lesson that she will absorb.
28:53 Speaker 02 Oh, yeah. That's, now that you put it like that, I see your point, yeah.
28:57 Dr. John Delony? But having a mom, when she's 15, and you sit down with her, and you're sobbing, and she's like, "What happened?", and you say, "I just got dumped",
29:05 Dr. John Delony? that might be the greatest gift you ever give her, moving forward.
29:09 Speaker 02 Yeah, that's a good point.
29:10 Dr. John Delony? Right?
29:12 Speaker 02 Yeah, I just had, I've heard so many horror stories, and, you know, how it can go wrong for single moms, and, you know, there's some real creeps out there, but I do think that I at least hope have the ability to detect them before they, you know, are allowed in my personal space, so I feel like, um, what you're saying is really helpful, because I feel like I'm sort of standing on the line, and if I were, if it was just me, I would take the next step, but it's because I'm a mom first, above all else.
29:43 Dr. John Delony? Yep.
29:43 Speaker 02 It, that's what the hesitation is, where that's coming from, you know?
29:48 Dr. John Delony? Well, and I think that hesitation is right and good, and anybody you meet that would be interested in pursuing a relationship with you should be a honorable steward of that.
29:59 Dr. John Delony? Of the order of things.
30:01 Speaker 02 Yeah.
30:02 Dr. John Delony? Right? And so, like, you're a data nerd like me. We both know that.
30:09 Speaker 02 Yeah.
30:11 Dr. John Delony? Bringing in non-biological men in the presence of teenage daughters increases the risk factor significantly. Right? We both know that.
30:18 Speaker 02 Yeah. Yeah.
30:19 Dr. John Delony? And so, we're gonna be extra conscious. You and I would be extra, extra conscious of that risk.
30:24 Speaker 02 Right.
30:25 Dr. John Delony? Right?
30:27 Speaker 02 But it's still a risk worth taking, not just for myself, but like you said, for her. I mean, in the end, like, that's what I, I mean, that's my overarching. I wanna, I wanna be the best mom I can be, you know? Not that I'm perfect by any means, but I wanna try to get things as right as much as I can. You know, so.
30:45 Dr. John Delony? And so, and so, the greatest gift you can give your, your daughter, who's had her whole life carved in half.
30:51 Speaker 02 Yeah.
30:52 Dr. John Delony? Right? Is, here is what a strong, confident woman does next.
31:01 Speaker 02 Yeah.
31:01 Dr. John Delony? And that doesn't mean getting it right all the time. It means saying, well, I messed that up, and I made a mistake here, and I learned here. And that is, that is the meta gift that parents can pass along to their kids. And you not doing things that violate your values.
31:17 Speaker 02 Yeah.
31:17 Dr. John Delony? Right? And you not asking a 13-year-old for their permission, because a 13-year-old can't bear that weight.
31:23 Speaker 02 Oh, yeah, yeah.
31:24 Dr. John Delony? Right? But also, holding her when she finds out you're going on a third date with a guy. And she says, "He'll never be dad," and you're just giving up, holding her and saying, knowing in your, in your guts, that's not accurate, but your feelings are very real, and I'm not, I'm not scared of your feelings, and I'll wade through them and hold you, because you're my daughter.
31:44 Speaker 02 Yeah.
31:47 Speaker 02 Cool. Well, thank you so much. That all makes a lot of sense.
31:50 Dr. John Delony? Can I ask one more personal question?
31:52 Speaker 02 Yeah, yeah, go ahead.
31:53 Dr. John Delony? What's his name?
31:55 Speaker 02 Will.
31:56 Dr. John Delony? No, no, not him.
31:58 Speaker 02 Oh.
31:59 Dr. John Delony? You got your eye on somebody. Who is it?
32:02 Speaker 02 Oh, uh, not right now. I don't.
32:03 Dr. John Delony? Come on, Christine.
32:05 Speaker 02 I really did. I really did for a while. Like I, I, I, I put my, you know, as they say in friends, like I grabbed several spoons, right? And I, I try, you know, I tried like meeting people in the real world, which is super awkward.
32:19 Dr. John Delony? It's the worst.
32:21 Speaker 02 And, you know, I tried, I sort of tried a couple of dating apps and I went on a couple of dates and, but I wasn't ready.
32:27 Dr. John Delony? Yeah.
32:28 Speaker 02 So I, and so I really did just, you know, turn it all off and stop and just take time to fully process. And, you know, this last year, I sort of, what I did actually was I, I made an agreement with myself to go out, like take myself out on a date once a month. So, you know, I would go to like a local, you know, Broadway show or check out a local band or something like that. And if a friend wanted to go with me, that's fine. But otherwise I would just go by myself. And so I took that time to have adult time outside of the house and to intentionally just sort of be single for a while and not really, and sort of like show the concept of dating.
33:11 Speaker 02 And so now I'm starting to, now I feel like I, like maybe I'm going to pick it back up. But like I said, I was hesitating because I'm like, maybe, because I do have friends that, you know, they'll say, yes, you should definitely wait. Don't even think about bringing a man. And I've got other friends who are like, oh yeah, sleep with as many men or date as many men as you want, but just pretend like you're not doing it. Like just act like you're not doing it.
33:33 Dr. John Delony? So both of those sets of friends are idiots, never listening for anything. For anything, right?
33:38 Speaker 02 Well, you know, people give advice based on their personal experiences.
33:41 Dr. John Delony? Not even their experiences. They give their advice based on their, on their social media's profile, like just on their algorithm feed. So geez, both of those advices are so stupid, right?
33:53 Speaker 02 Yeah, okay.
33:54 Dr. John Delony? But like the path you're taking is awesome. Here's where grief will set in in a heavy way. Okay?
34:00 Speaker 02 Okay.
34:00 Dr. John Delony? And you're like, I've already had enough. But there's still more to come. Grief number one, path one might be, you realize, I married my guy and he's gone.
34:14 Speaker 02 Yeah.
34:15 Dr. John Delony? And so I go on some dates. I even flirt with getting serious with a couple of them.
34:23 Dr. John Delony? And they can't compete, which means I'm gonna grieve because my ride or die is gone and I'm gonna put a period at the end of that sentence.
34:34 Speaker 02 Yeah.
34:34 Dr. John Delony? And that would be, that would be heavy, right?
34:37 Speaker 02 Yeah, yeah.
34:38 Dr. John Delony? Or you meet somebody else who lights you up like a Christmas tree. You start having fun and then you get all those crazy things like, I never would have met you if, right? And how am I allowed to have fun here when this happened over here, right? And all of that is completely normal and you grieve it and you just keep going forward anyway. And so I guess I'll tell you that there's not a right path forward. The only wrong path is if your daughter knows you or she is your entire world, that weight will crush her.
35:11 Speaker 02 Yeah, yeah.
35:12 Dr. John Delony? She has to know mom leaves her and goes to concerts and mom has friends. And over time, sitting down and saying, hey, it's been five years or six years, I'm dating somebody.
35:24 Speaker 02 Yeah, yeah.
35:25 Dr. John Delony? I would not tell my 13 year old on first date, number one, I wouldn't do that.
35:30 Speaker 02 Yeah.
35:31 Dr. John Delony? But I wouldn't lie if they asked.
35:34 Speaker 02 Yeah.
35:36 Dr. John Delony? That's unfair?
35:36 Speaker 02 Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Hundred percent.
35:39 Dr. John Delony? And I recently read this, the greatest place for somebody in what I would call middle age to meet somebody? Just get silly about asking your friends to hook you up with somebody awesome.
35:52 Speaker 02 I've done that and I always get the answer like, oh, the ones that my friends are single or single for a reason.
36:00 Speaker 02 I always hear.
36:01 Dr. John Delony? Well,
36:02 Speaker 02 I'm like, okay.
36:03 Dr. John Delony? Keep it that and
36:05 Speaker 02 Yeah.
36:05 Dr. John Delony? maybe they're single for one reason, but not, I don't know, dude, but I, I I think we all forgot that most of us had our first boyfriend or girlfriend when we were younger, especially those of us in our 40s or like in our 80s like Kelly. Like because someone's like, dude, I know someone who likes you or I have a friend who and we've just kind of given that up for the res, like you said, the resume and the dating app world. And it's like, no, dude, you're my closest friends. You know me. If you think there's somebody that, that I might be interested in or might have a good time with, um, dude.
36:43 Dr. John Delony? Give me their number. And again, it feels like we're 15 all over again, but, um, and we forget how nerve wracking all of that was, but here we are, right? Um, you're awesome. And I'll just tell you again, um, how you've navigated this over the last five years. Awesome. Shout out to Will for being a great husband and a great father and leaving a great legacy. And shout out to you, Christine, for saying, okay, like, I've still got half my life left. What's that gonna look like? I get to choose that looks like I'm gonna, I'm gonna take intentional steps into that. That's awesome. And to your friends who give you bad advice, stop talking, right? Thank you so much for the call, sister. We come back, a woman asks how to help her husband understand her postpartum depression.
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38:53 Dr. John Delony? All right, let's go out to the Skogies and how do they say that?
39:01 Dr. John Delony? I'm just a Skoggi from Muskoggi. What's that song?
39:06 Speaker 03 An oki from Muskoggi?
39:07 Dr. John Delony? Oki from Muskoggi. I blew that one.
39:10 Speaker 03 Well, she's from Oklahoma City, so not any of that.
39:14 Dr. John Delony? Let's go out to Oklahoma City and talk to Elise. What's up, Elise?
39:18 Speaker 04 Hi, how are you?
39:19 Dr. John Delony? I'm doing all right. How about you?
39:21 Speaker 04 I'm okay.
39:21 Dr. John Delony? What's going on?
39:23 Speaker 04 Um, I kind of just need help in how to talk to my husband about my postpartum struggles. I was diagnosed with postpartum depression when I was about a month postpartum.
39:33 Dr. John Delony? Oh, man. How long ago was that?
39:36 Speaker 04 Well, my son just turned six months, so about five months ago. I think I was struggling well before that, though, because I had a pretty traumatic pregnancy and delivery, so it was all just really hard. But when I would go to talk to my husband about it, all I would get was, I don't know what you want me to say, you know, try some medication, so on and so forth. And I've been struggling with trying to get him to understand the last five months, and our marriage is really kind of at a point where either he, you know, offers some support and tries to understand, or I'm not sure where we go from here.
40:11 Dr. John Delony? Okay. I'm sorry you've been going through this.
40:14 Speaker 04 Thank you.
40:16 Dr. John Delony? Being, feeling like you're being betrayed by your own body is terrifying, huh?
40:20 Speaker 04 It is. It's awful.
40:22 Dr. John Delony? Yeah. And then feeling like your ride or die isn't helping or isn't being supportive is even more nightmarish, right?
40:28 Speaker 04 Yeah, it is.
40:29 Dr. John Delony? Yeah. So, takeaway, I've got some ideas on how y'all can move forward when it comes to the particular question you asked me, but I want to ask a broader question.
40:41 Speaker 04 Okay.
40:42 Dr. John Delony? Where else are y'all not connecting? Or where else are y'all missing each other?
40:47 Speaker 04 Um, I would say intimacy is really hard for me right now. Like, just it's overwhelming. Um, and for him, like, that's what he wants, that's what he needs to connect to me, and like, I don't want that right now, and it's been really hard to try to push through that.
41:03 Dr. John Delony? Okay.
41:04 Speaker 04 For him, I think especially because I've felt neglected, you know, pretty much since we got home from the hospital.
41:11 Dr. John Delony? Yeah. Pushing through ends today.
41:16 Speaker 04 Okay.
41:17 Dr. John Delony? Okay.
41:19 Dr. John Delony? We're not gonna do guilt sex, we're not gonna do coerced sex, we're not gonna do, or he's gonna leave me sex.
41:29 Speaker 04 Okay.
41:30 Dr. John Delony? Okay.
41:34 Dr. John Delony? Same team?
41:36 Speaker 04 Yeah.
41:36 Dr. John Delony? Okay.
41:36 Speaker 04 Yeah.
41:40 Dr. John Delony? He wants sex, I get that. He wants to be with you, I get that. But there's a level of compassion, there's just basic human kindness.
41:48 Speaker 04 Right.
41:49 Dr. John Delony? Missing here, right?
41:50 Speaker 04 Right.
41:56 Dr. John Delony? I'm gonna tell you, I'm gonna give you a path, but it's not gonna be the one you wanna hear. Is that okay?
42:01 Speaker 04 Yeah, that's fine.
42:02 Dr. John Delony? Okay. Here's what I want you to at least give him a chance with.
42:07 Speaker 04 Okay.
42:08 Dr. John Delony? Okay, it's easy for me where I'm sitting to say, he's failing you.
42:14 Speaker 04 Right.
42:14 Dr. John Delony? I'll also admit that when my wife was struggling, I did not know what to do.
42:22 Dr. John Delony? And I also didn't know what to do, except I knew that when I try to fix her or fix things in her life, that's not the right answer either.
42:35 Dr. John Delony? And so I remember the powerless feeling. Okay? I'm not giving him a pass at all in any way, shape, form, or fashion, but I do wanna give you a context, okay?
42:46 Speaker 04 Okay.
42:47 Dr. John Delony? The question I would have for you is, give me a few examples, a few things that he could do starting today that would make you feel loved and seen and known and begin to reestablish safety underneath your feet.
43:08 Speaker 04 Oh, gosh. It's a loaded question.
43:10 Dr. John Delony? Just start ripping them off.
43:13 Speaker 04 Oh, I wanna shower without having to ask for permission. That'd be one.
43:17 Dr. John Delony? Who do you have to ask permission to shower from?
43:20 Speaker 04 Um, pretty much him.
43:23 Dr. John Delony? What? Tell me about that.
43:26 Speaker 04 Well, you know, if I go to shower, um, not even five minutes later, the baby will start screaming and he'll bring him in. And basically it'll be like, I can't handle it. Here he is. And I'll be there in the middle of my shower and, uh, you know, I'm a working mom. I work two jobs and I'm a student as well. And so, you know, at the end of the day, when I come home and I've been at work all day long and I come home and, you know, our son is teething, so that's a lot. And I want 20 minutes to myself in the shower. You know, I feel like lately I've had to be like very stern of, please don't bother me or I have to lock the door.
44:04 Speaker 04 That's been really hard to try to convey to him, like, can I have 20 minutes to myself? That I'm not being crawled on, that I'm not being touched.
44:13 Dr. John Delony? Right.
44:13 Speaker 04 Nobody needs me.
44:15 Dr. John Delony? Yeah.
44:17 Speaker 04 But it's always that, but the point, like, I know that 20 minutes is gonna end and then it's all gonna start up again.
44:22 Dr. John Delony? Okay. Give me another example of a way he can love you.
44:27 Speaker 04 Um, he used to do really small gestures for me. I mean, like, he would bring me a drink when he'd come home from work. Um, or he would bring me flowers and I don't really remember the last time I got flowers.
44:40 Dr. John Delony? Okay.
44:41 Speaker 04 Or anything like that.
44:43 Dr. John Delony? Bids for your affection. Little tiny signals that showed he cares about you.
44:47 Speaker 04 Yeah.
44:48 Dr. John Delony? Okay. What else?
44:50 Speaker 04 Um, I don't think that we've had any, like, dates since we've had our son. I don't even think that we had a date while I was pregnant.
44:59 Dr. John Delony? Okay.
45:03 Dr. John Delony? What else?
45:04 Speaker 04 I don't know. I don't.
45:08 Speaker 04 I don't know. Maybe just take over a little bit more with the kids so it's not all on me.
45:14 Dr. John Delony? Okay. So here's what I want you to do, and this is very un-Hollywood. This is very unsexy. This is very un-all of those things.
45:27 Dr. John Delony? Being angry with him and being pissed off at him. And I'm, by the way, I'm angry at him right now, just so you know. Okay. Which is unfair because he's not on the phone.
45:36 Speaker 04 Yeah.
45:38 Dr. John Delony? But I'm also trying to remember holding a toddler who was screaming and I didn't know what to do. And I thought I was doing something wrong. And I was so scared of hurting my kid, of messing something up. That I didn't know what to, I didn't know what to, I remember that feeling. It's again, not a con, not an excuse.
45:57 Dr. John Delony? But being clear with yourself on, here's what I need. And here's, more importantly, here's what I want.
46:05 Speaker 04 Right.
46:06 Dr. John Delony? Where that gets very vulnerable is you saying, when I get home,
46:13 Dr. John Delony? I want to give you a hug for 30 seconds. And then I'm going to go take a shower and I'm going to be out of sight, out of pocket for 40 minutes. You're on your own with the kid. You're a good dad. You all have fun, make it work. And if he screams, he screams. If he cries, he cries. That's part of being a parent.
46:34 Speaker 04 Right.
46:37 Dr. John Delony? I want to want you again.
46:42 Dr. John Delony? And so here's what must be true.
46:45 Dr. John Delony? I refuse to be coerced into sex anymore.
46:49 Dr. John Delony? Because that's not loving and it makes me feel used.
46:51 Speaker 04 Yeah.
46:55 Dr. John Delony? And not even you used to. I would like you to send me text messages throughout the day that tell me you're thinking about me. I would like you to plan one date a week. And I'll come home and take my 40 minute shower, but this one will be 30 minutes. I'll even set up the babysitter. But I want you to set up a date and I want us to go on a date.
47:13 Speaker 04 Yeah. Okay.
47:15 Dr. John Delony? You understand what I'm saying? I want you to give him as clear a roadmap as possible. And I know it's cool and in vogue to beat up on guys, but they should just know, you're right, but we, but we don't.
47:24 Speaker 04 Right.
47:25 Dr. John Delony? Right?
47:28 Speaker 04 Right. I just, part of me feels like he doesn't know how to handle it, so he just chooses not to, in a way.
47:35 Dr. John Delony? That's very fair. Very fair.
47:37 Speaker 04 Um.
47:38 Dr. John Delony? And you've probably seen him figure out how to fix the mower, how to figure out how to do other stuff. And it's like, well, just figure out how to do this. I get that.
47:44 Speaker 04 Right.
47:45 Dr. John Delony? And you're right.
47:45 Speaker 04 No, exactly.
47:46 Dr. John Delony? You are exactly right. And here we are.
47:51 Dr. John Delony? It, it, it goes back to the, like, it's a thing I've been preaching for several years, which is, we can be frustrated that things aren't the way they should be, or we can choose reality and march on from here.
48:02 Speaker 04 Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense.
48:06 Speaker 04 I think some of my frustration comes from, I feel like he's being very selfish right now, whereas I'm having to be very selfless in everything that I do.
48:15 Dr. John Delony? Yes.
48:15 Speaker 04 In my career, being a mom, um, putting all my other free time into being a student.
48:21 Dr. John Delony? Is he working?
48:22 Speaker 04 Um, yeah, he works.
48:23 Dr. John Delony? Okay.
48:23 Speaker 04 And he's also a student. So, I mean, we're both under a fair amount of stress.
48:27 Dr. John Delony? Sure.
48:28 Speaker 04 But I'm not using it as an excuse to, you know, not do anything.
48:31 Dr. John Delony? Right.
48:32 Speaker 04 But he did make a comment to me the other day. He's like, I just want my wife back.
48:35 Dr. John Delony? Yes.
48:35 Speaker 04 And to me, that felt very selfish, because, I mean, I want, I want me back too.
48:39 Dr. John Delony? Right.
48:40 Speaker 04 But this has been hard.
48:41 Dr. John Delony? It's been very hard. And I would have advised him to not say that in that way.
48:49 Dr. John Delony? But you can also hear that as, he loves you, and he doesn't know how to connect with you anymore.
48:55 Speaker 04 Right.
48:55 Dr. John Delony? And he used to know how to do that.
48:59 Speaker 04 Fair.
49:00 Dr. John Delony? And so I, again, wrong way to say it, but let me put it this way. We get to make up whatever story we want about what he said.
49:09 Speaker 04 Right.
49:10 Dr. John Delony? We can make up the story, you don't have the same body you used to have, you're too busy for me now. You can make up that story. And it might be true. Or we can make up the story, this guy still loves me, and he doesn't know, he doesn't know how to connect with me now that both of our lives are completely different.
49:31 Dr. John Delony? One of those stories has at least an opportunity to work out in y'all's favor. The other story ends in scorekeeping and contempt and resentment and then it's over.
49:41 Speaker 04 Yeah.
49:41 Dr. John Delony? And you're really-
49:42 Speaker 04 It's really hard to not keep the score.
49:44 Dr. John Delony? Yeah, you're, well, I mean-
49:45 Speaker 04 It's so easy to do in parenthood.
49:46 Dr. John Delony? It's, it's so hard to not keep score, especially when it's a thousand to zero.
49:52 Speaker 04 Right.
49:53 Dr. John Delony? Right?
49:55 Dr. John Delony? And so-
49:56 Speaker 04 Yeah.
49:58 Dr. John Delony? I, you, you've probably heard me say this over and over again, when you have a child, especially your first child, the marriage you had is over. It doesn't exist anymore.
50:06 Speaker 04 Yeah.
50:07 Dr. John Delony? And the exercise is, alright, now we get to choose to build a new marriage. Are you in?
50:14 Speaker 04 I feel like maybe I was the only one that understood that things would, our marriage at least would change a bit.
50:19 Dr. John Delony? Yes.
50:20 Speaker 04 And maybe he didn't understand, or was maybe still not understanding that, you know, it probably won't go back to the way it was before we had kids.
50:28 Dr. John Delony? It will never go back.
50:30 Speaker 04 We could, we could do what we wanted.
50:32 Dr. John Delony? Yeah, it's over.
50:32 Speaker 04 We didn't work this much.
50:34 Dr. John Delony? Y'all could have sex whenever you wanted, y'all could go out whenever you wanted, y'all had money to spare, like you had everything. You had energy.
50:39 Speaker 04 Right, yeah.
50:40 Dr. John Delony? Yeah, that is over. And here's what's awesome. Y'all get to choose with a new set of variables, what, what your life looks like moving forward inside of a new context. And it's a different kind of awesome.
50:54 Speaker 04 Yeah, that's very true.
50:55 Dr. John Delony? Right? But you, it, it, there's an intentionality to it.
50:59 Dr. John Delony? And if he was on the phone with me, trust me, I'd be letting him have it. You know I would. But what I'm more concerned about with you is,
51:09 Dr. John Delony? the clearer you can get on how you would like to be loved in the next two weeks, and then we're gonna revisit it again. The clearer you can be for yourself, which is hard when you're struggling with postpartum, right? Everything feels like everything, right?
51:28 Dr. John Delony? Is that fair?
51:30 Speaker 04 Yeah, that's fair.
51:33 Dr. John Delony? What's the manifestations of your postpartum?
51:36 Speaker 04 Um, a lot of anger.
51:38 Dr. John Delony? Okay.
51:39 Speaker 04 Um, no sleeping. I had really bad anxiety at the beginning, but I think that's at least getting better.
51:46 Dr. John Delony? Okay. Was it physical or was it thoughts or was it both?
51:50 Speaker 04 More physical.
51:51 Dr. John Delony? Okay.
51:52 Speaker 04 Yeah.
51:53 Dr. John Delony? Okay.
51:56 Dr. John Delony? So-
51:56 Speaker 04 But I have a newfound appreciation for all the women in the world who've had babies.
52:01 Dr. John Delony? Oh, yeah. I mean, it's wild.
52:03 Speaker 04 For sure.
52:03 Dr. John Delony? It's wild.
52:04 Speaker 04 Yeah.
52:06 Dr. John Delony? And-
52:06 Speaker 04 We prepared you for it, that's for sure.
52:09 Dr. John Delony? And sitting down with him and saying, "You have been very selfish lately."
52:16 Dr. John Delony? He will feel that in his guts, right or wrong, as a declaration of war, as yet another way he's failing.
52:22 Speaker 04 Yeah.
52:23 Dr. John Delony? His wife doesn't like him anymore. He can't make his own baby stop crying. He feels useless in his own house. It's a failure factory.
52:31 Speaker 04 Yeah.
52:33 Dr. John Delony? Or you can say, "Hey, we've got a brand-new marriage now. The marriage we had is over. We get to choose whatever one we want it to look like.
52:43 Dr. John Delony? I've got a roadmap for how you can best love me over the next two weeks, and because of the pace of change, we're both students, we're both working a bunch of jobs, our kid is gonna be a different human in the next six months.
52:54 Dr. John Delony? This will change. Here's how you can reconnect with me."
53:01 Dr. John Delony? And then that's vulnerable, because he might look at you and say, "I'm not doing that." And now we have to deal with that.
53:07 Speaker 04 Yeah.
53:07 Dr. John Delony? But that's a more honest path than creating stories, judging those stories, and finding yourself, "I'm about to leave this guy," which is how this call started.
53:17 Speaker 04 Right.
53:20 Speaker 04 Oh, that's fair.
53:21 Dr. John Delony? And it's none of this is a pass on him. But it's just trafficking in reality.
53:27 Speaker 04 Yeah. I think it's hard to see things from an outside perspective when you feel like you're drowning.
53:32 Dr. John Delony? And especially when the person who's supposed to reach out and pull you out of the water isn't helping.
53:37 Speaker 04 Yeah.
53:37 Dr. John Delony? Totally.
53:40 Dr. John Delony? Totally, totally.
53:42 Speaker 04 Yeah, that's fair. Well, I appreciate that. Thank you very much.
53:46 Dr. John Delony? I hate that you're feeling so alone right now. I hate that he's acting like this.
53:50 Speaker 04 Oh, I do too.
53:52 Dr. John Delony? But, okay, but that contempt, that's gonna, I mean, it's gonna melt y'all, right?
53:58 Speaker 04 Yeah.
53:59 Dr. John Delony? Well, his actions are gonna melt. Your response to the actions, I mean, it just creates this, this downward spiral that's really hard to dig out of unless somebody just calls it and says, hey,
54:11 Dr. John Delony? we're gonna start new today. Here is a roadmap to me. Will you walk this road?
54:19 Speaker 04 Okay. I mean, that's great because so far I feel like it's just been a melting pot of emotions.
54:24 Dr. John Delony? Yeah.
54:25 Speaker 04 Well, and there's been, there's been no way out so far.
54:28 Dr. John Delony? Yeah. And it's hard to describe to somebody like, hey, every one of my emotions feels like they're on fire right now.
54:34 Speaker 04 Right.
54:35 Dr. John Delony? And he said this, he asked this in a very unhelpful, insensitive way, but what do you want me to do about it?
54:43 Speaker 04 Yeah.
54:44 Dr. John Delony? I would have bopped him, like, dude, don't say that. What's the matter with you? And also, I remember feeling so helpless.
54:52 Speaker 04 Yeah.
54:52 Dr. John Delony? I remember getting to the place where I thought the greatest gift I can give my wife and my new child is to not be at this house.
55:00 Speaker 04 Yeah. And I know that he probably feels that way. I mean, he works 24-hour shifts and he's told me, you know, like, I feel like you enjoy it when I'm at work.
55:10 Dr. John Delony? And you can say, I do, because the house has peace.
55:13 Speaker 04 Right.
55:15 Dr. John Delony? And so let's decide how we want this house to feel when we both walk in. What must be true?
55:21 Speaker 04 Right.
55:21 Dr. John Delony? And if he walks in the door, arms wide open, ready to help, ready to support and love you, ready to give you your 45 minutes of no one's, like, just you, right?
55:32 Speaker 04 Mm-hmm.
55:33 Dr. John Delony? Then you suddenly have a little bit more space, a little bit more margin.
55:40 Speaker 04 Yeah.
55:41 Dr. John Delony? Right?
55:42 Speaker 04 For sure.
55:43 Dr. John Delony? Holding his hand is a place of safety. It's not a, oh God, here we go.
55:48 Speaker 04 Yeah, that's what it's felt like a lot lately.
55:50 Dr. John Delony? Right.
55:53 Speaker 04 And I don't want a marriage to feel like a obligation, you know?
55:58 Dr. John Delony? Yeah, I get that, but there is, there are obligations in a marriage.
56:03 Speaker 04 There are, for sure.
56:04 Dr. John Delony? Right, there's responsibilities, there's things you do for a person so that you see them and know them and celebrate the crap out of them. And yes, challenge them sometimes.
56:16 Dr. John Delony? Man, A, man, my heart is splayed open for anyone going through postpartum right now. It's just a nightmare being betrayed by your own body. I mean, I can't even wrap, I can't even wrap my head around what that must be like. And my heart goes out to husbands who literally are wide-eyed, don't know what to do next.
56:40 Dr. John Delony? And so, creating a map, here's a road.
56:47 Dr. John Delony? Will you follow it? Is a scary, vulnerable thing.
56:52 Dr. John Delony? But he just might follow it. And then if he gives you a map, you might be able to have some space to then say, okay, I can walk down that road too. And suddenly you'll have a path back to each other.
57:05 Dr. John Delony? And that's my hope for every marriage.
57:09 Dr. John Delony? Every marriage.
57:11 Dr. John Delony? Thank you for the call, sister. We'll be right back.
57:15 Dr. John Delony? This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Some of my most amazing mentors and some of my closest friends and my wife, they're all amazing women. And one of the common themes I've heard from all of them is that between caring for people and all the other responsibilities and the expectations the whole world is always dumping on them, women are under incredible pressure every day. And they're often encouraged to overlook their own emotional well-being, to care for everybody else. Therapy offers a space for women to learn how to create some sort of balance, navigate healthy boundaries, and support overall well-being. And if this sounds like something that would help you, I want to recommend BetterHelp.
57:58 Dr. John Delony? BetterHelp is an online therapy platform that matches you with a licensed therapist based on your goals and preferences. You can message your therapist and schedule sessions right over the platform. With over 30,000 therapists, they have the right person just for you. And if the first therapist isn't the right fit, you can switch anytime at no additional cost. Your emotional well-being matters. Find support in therapy today. Visit betterhelp.com/deloney to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H E L P, dot com slash deloney.
58:32 Dr. John Delony? All right, we're back. Hey, go to the App Store and download the Together app by Dr. John Deloney. If you're married, it will transform your marriage with micro habits, daily actions that can change everything in your marriage. Go download it. Android folks, we're coming. We've got some guys working on it. Hang in there. The Together app. Go check it out. All right, Kelly, am I the problem? Go for it.
58:56 Speaker 03 All right. So this is from Brianna in Raleigh, North Carolina, and she writes, "I recently found a tattoo that I decided I would like to get for my daughter who's two years old." So not getting it for the daughter.
59:07 Dr. John Delony? Right.
59:08 Speaker 03 Let's make sure we're clear on that. She's getting it in honor of. "It's a personalized tattoo. My mother kindly offered to pay for it as a gift to me. She later informed me that she was also going to get the same tattoo. Am I the problem for not wanting her to?"
59:24 Dr. John Delony? I didn't hear what you said. What's the end of that? That's the, that's, you know what? That's the best hold my beer ever.
59:30 Speaker 03 She just said I'm the problem for not wanting her to get the same tattoo.
59:33 Dr. John Delony? No, that's weird. And also, what a way to get your kid to not get a tattoo. To be like, oh, that's awesome. I'm going to get the exact same one.
59:44 Speaker 03 But what if she's not doing it for that reason? What if she's legit? I mean, that's how I took it, has just been like, oh, my God, I love that idea. I want to get the same one. So there's either, is she being?
59:54 Dr. John Delony? Manipulative.
59:55 Speaker 03 Manipulative, or is she just being oblivious?
59:58 Dr. John Delony? Yeah. If she's being, either way, I would say, Mom, like, I want you to come up with your own design. I want, I want you, us to get tattoos together. I think that's awesome. But I want this to be special between me and my daughter. I want you to make up a design or get a design that's good for you two. And if she says, no, I'm getting that exact one, I literally wouldn't get that tattoo. I- I had never thought of that before, but that's going in my arsenal. When my son comes home and goes, "Dad, I'm gonna go get this tattoo," or "I just got this tattoo." I'm gonna go get the exact same one. I think that's hilarious. Unless it's like a Limp Bizkit tattoo or something, and that'll probably hold out. But, you know what? I might get that one just cuz. I think that's such a great move. If your kid's like, "Dude, I wanna get those tattoos." Sweet, I'll get the exact ones. That's so good.
1:00:42 Speaker 03 Hank's tattoo would be some 90s country artist.
1:00:45 Dr. John Delony? Oh, I do.
1:00:46 Speaker 03 It'd be like a Garth Brooks tattoo.
1:00:47 Dr. John Delony? It'd be Hank Williams with like... Yes, exactly. Yeah.
1:00:54 Dr. John Delony? He thinks tattoos are obnoxious and ridiculous. He's pretty judgmental of his father. And he's sadly right about a lot of them, but alas. Alas. Now, my daughter, on the other hand...
1:01:09 Dr. John Delony? I think she gonna be sleeved up. Love you guys, bye.
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