Caller: “I Fought for Our Marriage . . . It Didn’t Work”

🔥 Microhabits for a better marriage. Download the Together app. On today’s episode, we hear about: A man grappling with his wife’s decision to end their marriage A husband wondering how to choose his wife over work A woman whose healthy choices have left her feeling isolated Next Steps: ❤️ Get away with your spouse today! 📞 Ask John a question! Call 844-693-3291 or send us a message. 📚 Building a Non-Anxious Life 📝 Anxiety Test 📚 Own Your Past, Change Your Future ❓ Questions for Humans Conversation Cards 💭 John's Free Guided Meditation 🤘🏼 The Dr. John Delony Show Merch Connect With Our Sponsors: Get 10% off your first month of BetterHelp. Go to Capstone Wellness to learn more. Get up to 20% off with code DELONY at Cozy Earth. Get 20% off when you join DeleteMe. Visit Hallow for a 90-day free trial. Visit Helix Sleep for special offers! Go to Joi + Blokes and get 50% off labs and 20% off products. Working knives for working people—go to Montana Knife Company to see what’s available now! Explore Poncho Outdoors! Get 25% off your order at Thorne. Visit Zander Insurance or call 1-800-356-4282 for your free instant quote today. Explore More From Ramsey Network: 🎙️ The Ramsey Show 💸 The Ramsey Show Highlights 🍸 Smart Money Happy Hour 💰 George Kamel 📈 EntreLeadership Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:05Dr. John Delony?

  We talked and I told you to go fight for your marriage.

• 0:09Speaker 01

  That is correct. And you said, you know, go put up a boombox and, and go fight for your marriage.

• 0:15Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 0:16Speaker 01

  And I said, you know, will you fight with me? And her response was, I don't know.

• 0:21Dr. John Delony?

  Oh, God, dude.

• 0:29Dr. John Delony?

  Hello, hello, what's up? This is John, the Dr. John Deloney Show, coming to you from Nashville, Tennessee, taking your calls. Real people going through real challenges. I'm glad you're here. Pull up a seat and we'll figure out, we will figure out, said the guy who can't make a complete sentence. What's the next right move? Man, if you could see the eyes of judgment from our overlord, Kelly, who they burn. Let's go out to Portland, Oregon and talk to Ira. All right. So Ira, is it a week or two ago, we talked? And I told you to go fight for your marriage. Is that right?

• 1:08Speaker 01

  That is correct. And good morning. Yeah. It's like a week or two ago, we chatted and you said, you know, go be silly. Go do, uh, you know, a John Cusack film in the 1980s and put up a boombox and, and go fight for your marriage.

• 1:23Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 1:23Speaker 01

  And I gotta tell you, yeah, and I did it. I, I loved the idea. Um, so I pinged my wife. I said, Hey, you know, where are you? And I wanted to make it as embarrassing for myself as humanly possible. But sadly, she was just at the house. So all I had to do was by myself. So I grabbed my Bluetooth speaker. I put it in the air. I, I, she pulled up and she's like, what's going on? I'm like, just do me a favor. Let me act like an idiot for a minute. And I said, just go inside. Let me knock on the door. She goes inside and knocks on the door. Um, I hold a Bluetooth speaker in the air and I play a song from Garden State.

• 2:01Dr. John Delony?

  Oh, what a great movie.

• 2:04Speaker 01

  I know. It was exactly, exactly. I mean, I was, I mean, just like, just Steph Curry sinking three pointers. Those awesome. So I get on my knee and, you know, I just say, you know, this is, you know, I know this is hard. Um, you know, we, we've gone through a lot. There's some, there's a lot of things that we as a team, as partners, as, as a couple, need to fix to, you know, build a relationship that we want to have for the rest of our lives. But I want to be able to look back and say, you know, I was always so proud of, of fighting for each other. And I said, you know, would, would you, and I mean, I was ugly crying. I knew it was all coming out and I said, you know, will you fight with me?

• 2:44Speaker 01

  And when I looked up, um, a little bit of a sullen face, um, a little bit of surprise. And her response was, I don't know.

• 2:55Dr. John Delony?

  And, uh, God, dude.

• 2:58Speaker 01

  Exactly. Um, you know, you, you kind of know when somebody's out of the fight, done with the fight, not able to do that anymore. And, you know, I own every single part that I should have done better for our entire relationship.

• 3:16Dr. John Delony?

  So is it, it's over, over? Did she file on you?

• 3:19Speaker 01

  Um, she, she requested, um, uh, officially she requested a divorce, um, at her last therapy session. Um, and I was hoping that we're going to have some more time with separation to really kind of look at it. But she was, uh, she was done, done. And, um, I, I don't really see that as any way of coming back.

• 3:40Dr. John Delony?

  All right, let's pause, let's pause for a second. Like, so number one, and then we'll get to the, your, your question. Cause I only have another question. Um,

• 3:49Dr. John Delony?

  I have to, I have to applaud you, man, with all my guts. And here's the thing, this divorce goes through and it's final. She's requested it. So I'm assuming, let's, let's play this out. This divorce happens in 30, 60 days. You're an unmarried man.

• 4:06Dr. John Delony?

  You will be able to look yourself in the mirror and say, I literally went to my knees for this marriage.

• 4:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:16Dr. John Delony?

  And I wasn't perfect in the past, but I went all in. And there won't be any lingering, well, maybe if I had whatever, like you went for it.

• 4:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:27Dr. John Delony?

  And so I want to applaud you, man. And I want to tell you that future you is going to be really grateful that you left everything out on the field.

• 4:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:35Dr. John Delony?

  You know what I mean?

• 4:35Speaker 01

  You're right.

• 4:36Dr. John Delony?

  Like when you talk to an Olympic second or third or fourth placer, and they're like, no, that guy was just faster than me.

• 4:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:44Dr. John Delony?

  I put every, or I'm a big UFC fan. Like somebody gets knocked out. They're like, ah dude, I had a great training camp. I went in ready to go and that guy just beat me. There, there's, there's a sadness and there's a heartbreak and there's the depression, all that stuff. But there's also the, no, I did everything I could.

• 5:01Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 5:02Dr. John Delony?

  And so, well done, brother. I hate the outcome for you. I'm such a romantic. Good call on Garden State, by the way.

• 5:10Speaker 01

  Oh, I was trying.

• 5:11Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, man, you went like, that's like, that's layers, dude. That's, that's a good move.

• 5:18Dr. John Delony?

  But like, uh, I'm proud of you, dude. That's, that's for real.

• 5:21Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 5:22Dr. John Delony?

  I wish more people would fight for their marriage that way. And, um,

• 5:25Speaker 01

  Um, yeah. I think one of the big things that I learned from this, and I actually was sitting down with some folks last night. I said this to them. It's like, if you think there's a problem, start fighting immediately. Don't wait until you've been here.

• 5:38Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, amen.

• 5:38Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I wish more people did that.

• 5:40Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah. So, uh, how do I help you move them forward? Or you might be like, dude, screw your stupid advice. I did what you said and it was terrible. It didn't work.

• 5:49Speaker 01

  It was the best advice I've ever received because I truly feel like I did everything I could. Once I knew it was a five alarm fire.

• 5:55Dr. John Delony?

  It's awesome. Well, good for you, man.

• 5:58Speaker 01

  Yeah. So in your experience, I just need some help learning how I can have a positive relationship with my spouse after divorce, because we have kids.

• 6:07Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah. Um, it's going to be very similar to what you chose to do at your front door. Not so dramatic, obviously, but, um, you, you got a ringside seat to the truth that you can only control you.

• 6:25Dr. John Delony?

  And so you have to ask yourself, who do I want to be regardless of the emotional maturity of my former spouse? And the mother of my kids? And so the work on yourself continues. And my hope is y'all can sit down and say, okay, we've had our differences. We didn't work out, but you're the mother of my kids. I'm the father of your kids. And the greatest gift we can give our kids now, after our marriage is over? Repairing that would have been the best. Absent that, the greatest gift we can give our kids is to be each other's cheerleader

• 7:07Dr. John Delony?

  for them.

• 7:10Dr. John Delony?

  And dude, I've seen couples just do amazing jobs at that. And I've seen couples just burn their children to the ground out of spite and anger and frustration and immaturity. It really, it is simple as I'm going to make it. It's, it's a choice between two adults. That kids are more important than grievances.

• 7:36Speaker 01

  I love that.

• 7:38Dr. John Delony?

  But you can only do the best. Um, a couple of like rules of thumb, no matter what, never, ever, ever talk bad about her. Because she, your kids, half of them is her. And so if you ever roll your eyes, oh, your dumb mom's late again, or whatever, they will know part of them is dumb.

• 8:00Dr. John Delony?

  Part of them is annoying. Part of them is a brat. Part of them is whatever. And so as hard as it will be, I'm going to, I'm going to always tell the truth. I'm not going to lie. And hopefully, um, your wife will sit down and say, no, your dad really wanted to stay married and I'm choosing to leave.

• 8:20Dr. John Delony?

  I'm choosing to end this marriage. Um, sometimes people say, Hey, I want to leave, but don't tell the kids. Let's say that we both agreed on that.

• 8:30Speaker 01

  That's a hard thing for me to swallow to say it that way.

• 8:34Dr. John Delony?

  I'm, I'm never going to lie to my kids. I, I don't, I don't think that's ever a wise thing because they'll feel it.

• 8:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:41Dr. John Delony?

  And so I, um, but you might be honest and say, I wasn't the guy that I wanted to be. And I let things get too long. And, and how old are your kids?

• 8:53Speaker 01

  Uh, five and seven.

• 8:54Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. They, they don't need that level of explanation at this age, anyway.

• 8:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:58Dr. John Delony?

  Um, do they know this is coming? How have they handled the separation?

• 9:01Speaker 01

  Um, they've been really okay with it. Once we gave them real visibility of saying, hey, we've said this, but the reality is, is we're, you know, we're separated right now. We kind of said it in different terms, but, and then just gave them a real schedule of what, what was going on? Where they were going to be and making sure that they were taking care of those. There was no surprises.

• 9:19Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. So the, the word divorce will ricochet through them in different ways. Um,

• 9:28Dr. John Delony?

  schedule, I mean, expect them to have a fantasy that someday y'all are going to get back together.

• 9:36Dr. John Delony?

  And expect them to try to do what they can to bring y'all back together. And it will be y'all's job to make sure they know this is not their job.

• 9:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:45Dr. John Delony?

  And so if y'all can sit by each other and look at each of them and say, y'all are amazing and y'all are wonderful. And this is only be, has to do with mom and dad. This has nothing to do with you guys.

• 10:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, makes sense.

• 10:02Dr. John Delony?

  But kids have a supernatural way of, they're going to say things like, but dad, you told me to always forgive. Why isn't mommy forgiving you?

• 10:14Dr. John Delony?

  Right? And they'll ask you questions like that. And you'll have to be like, ah, that's a good question.

• 10:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:19Dr. John Delony?

  And then they'll say, daddy, you always tell us to never be mean. Why were you mean to mommy? And you'll be like, ooh, right? So, I mean, expect those things and honor every question that your kids ask. Um, and it's okay to say things like, I'll tell you about, I'll tell you more details when you get older. But right now I'm just sad.

• 10:41Dr. John Delony?

  And kids also think that adults can just do whatever they want. And so if you're like, no, I'm really sad. They'll be like, well, then just go back with her. Right? Like it's, they're going to ask questions like that. Just prepare yourself for it.

• 10:54Speaker 01

  Um, yeah.

• 10:55Dr. John Delony?

  I don't ever want kids going through a divorce to feel like they're not allowed to ask questions. And they will learn real quick whether their fears and concerns are, their adults in their life can hold them or if they can't.

• 11:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, makes sense. Yeah, yeah. The girls have been laughingly asking me, are you gonna cry again today daddy? I'm like, no, I'm not. Thank you for asking.

• 11:21Dr. John Delony?

  And but they need, they're gonna be really sad and they're gonna be heartbroken and and they're gonna do it, handle it in different ways. One kid may go get straight A's, one kid may really struggle, like, just, like, don't look at outcomes, look at the kids, right? And them seeing their dad cry is a blessing for them of the highest order because it lets them know they're not crazy.

• 11:48Dr. John Delony?

  Right? And when one of y'all starts dating, this whole thing kicks back up again because then it starts to be like, oh, they're not getting back together, right? And kids will hold that fantasy for a long, long time.

• 12:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:00Dr. John Delony?

  Right?

• 12:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, makes total sense.

• 12:03Dr. John Delony?

  The, the best line I ever heard was, the moment somebody requests a divorce and/or files for divorce, the marriage is over and you and this other adult are now engaged in a business transaction. Would you honor each other in a business arrangement the same way you would honor somebody else you're doing business with? Will you be kind to them? Will you be honest with them? Will you treat them more than fair? Right? And so reframing it that way.

• 12:36Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. I think, I'm just gonna, my, my, my opinion on this is that I just need to take some time before I do any business transaction to get over the, the, kind of the shock and all.

• 12:52Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah. Well, you might not have time. You might not have a bunch of time. And that's where, sitting down and asking your, your wife, do you want to get a mediator? Do you want to get, we're gonna get lawyers? I prefer to get a mediator and save the money. If you want to get an attorney, I understand. And I'll get one too, and we'll let them fight each other.

• 13:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:10Dr. John Delony?

  But these things can get real expensive, real fast, and real dramatic, real fast.

• 13:14Speaker 01

  Yeah. Agreed. Did not expect this to be happening right now, John.

• 13:20Dr. John Delony?

  Nope. Nope. Nope. I'm sorry. I'm heartbroken with you, man.

• 13:24Speaker 01

  Hey, man. I appreciate it. I appreciate all you do for all these folks out here, including me. So, thank you. I really appreciate it.

• 13:31Dr. John Delony?

  Dude, I'm, I'm so sorry. My plan didn't work.

• 13:36Speaker 01

  Me too, but man, I'm not blaming you. You did a great plan. You kidding me?

• 13:41Dr. John Delony?

  I, I, I, I would hug you if you were here. That you went for it, brother. You went for it. And I wish more people would just go for it. And it didn't work out. But I tell you what, man, you're gonna be able to look yourself in the mirror and put your head on your pillow, knowing I fought for my wife. And she said she was done. And so now we get to decide to be adults on the back end of this thing. I, I, I think the next path forward is to eat, for y'all two to go out and have a meal together and to say, I want to confirm with you, you want to get a divorce? If so, here's my questions. Do you want to get a mediator? Um, am I interested in fighting you? I want to love and honor

• 14:22Dr. John Delony?

  our daughters well. I want to be respectful and honoring of you in this separation. Like, what do we have? What kind of conversations do we want to have? Um, I know couples who've gone through mediation and they end their marriage for a couple thousand bucks, $1,500. It's just simple. Um, because they're not interested in burning each other to the ground or trying to eat, like, get retribution or anything. And dude, I've seen divorces go on for years and years and years to the tune of hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars, which is insanity to me. But alas, fighting over a plate or a whatever, shovel or whatever. So, um, I think heading into it directly, or like, right into it. Alright,

• 15:06Dr. John Delony?

  so you said, like, this is what you want. Um, I want to be a person of integrity through this. And, um, I would head right through it, not try to avoid it. I don't know that you're ever gonna feel ready to go through with something this big that you don't want to be doing in the first place. But, thanks for the call, brother. Man. Man. That would have been awesome if it worked out, but I'm proud of you. We'll be right back.

• 15:30Dr. John Delony?

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• 16:12Dr. John Delony?

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• 16:43Dr. John Delony?

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• 17:27Dr. John Delony?

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• 18:03Dr. John Delony?

  Let's go to Houston, H-Town, and talk to Jack, Jack, Jack. What's up, Jack?

• 18:08Speaker 02

  Awesome. So, my question for you was, how do I save my marriage and rebuild after me and my wife have been through maybe everything that we can go through?

• 18:18Dr. John Delony?

  Tell me about it.

• 18:19Speaker 02

  So basically, we've been married for about five years. Uh, we had a good few years and then we lost our child at 20 weeks. At that point, what happened is her feelings just got really deeply affected and part of me was not able to fully fulfill her emotional needs. Um, I always brushed a bit under the rug type of thing. And as it progresses throughout the years, we kind of grew just a bit distant. And a few years ago, uh, we even went even more, like, just like fight about it and all those things. A year ago,

• 18:59Speaker 02

  we, uh, separated just because we just couldn't be with each other. And we're still fine. We still talk. We're still, you know, good people to each other and maybe hoping that we can rebuild, uh, having intimate times sometimes as well. And we always thought that, hey, maybe we're not for each other. We're good people, but maybe not the right season. And about, not long ago, she mentioned, like, hey, look, you know, there's this person. And I was like, hey, yeah, I mean, at the end of the day, if you're happy, uh, that's great. And when that gentleman came into the picture, actually, I got so hurt to the point where I actually was able to look into the mirror and be like, hey, what's the reason

• 19:43Speaker 02

  why this marriage failed? What could I have done better? And it was a few painful days and weeks to the point where I finally was able to open myself and be like, hey, what did I mess up? And I realized that a good part of it, when she was feeling hurt, I was not taking care of her hurt. And when I was feeling hurt or not respected, I would not be like, hey, how can I help you to be better? I was always type of selfish, like, hey, if I hurt, you should hurt too. And I believe that's what broke us apart. Um, since the gentleman came in, um, he realized that it might not be the best for them to,

• 20:27Speaker 02

  like, continue their relationship. Um, and we've been talking a lot more since then, a lot more openly. And for the first time in ever, we actually were able to hold conversation for hours without arguing, just little, little listening. Um, but throughout this whole time, she's been very hurt by my actions. Um, and for her right now, it's slightly challenging to come back in the relationship because she doesn't know how much to trust.

• 21:00Speaker 02

  We do believe that we can work things out. We just need a path of how can we, how can we work on this and trust each other, each other again? How can we rebuild everything? And, uh, we are very open. We talk a lot about it and we're starting having new memories again. But I do know that, uh, because of the gentleman, which I'm grateful for, uh, if he was not in the picture, I would have probably not be able to, to open myself. I would have probably been the same stubborn person. Um, so I don't hold anything towards him. And at the end of the day, I told myself, hey, if things won't work out, at least I

• 21:43Speaker 02

  was able finally to open myself up to see what actually happened within myself. Um, and the challenge was, when she found this person, she, she realized that she could be a younger version of herself, which she never was able to. So she does hold some sort of emotional attachment to him. Um, but since then, she realized they, they can be together because she knows it's gonna hurt me too much. Um, yet, I would like to see how can we rebuild? Especially taking into account that she had a very deep emotional connection with this person.

• 22:23Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah. I mean, there's, gosh, there's so much here. Um...

• 22:29Dr. John Delony?

  I would love to spend several

• 22:30Speaker 02

  A lot more, but it's not a lot of time.

• 22:32Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, exactly. I'd like to spend several hours with you. I, I think you're, um, man, I found myself agreeing with a lot of what you said. I found myself wanting to push back on a lot of what you said. I, I think the important part is for, for the time we have is recognizing you and your wife are both at, you've crossed a finish line. The old relationship y'all had is over. Do you want to build a new one?

• 23:04Dr. John Delony?

  And part, a key component of rebuilding is y'all agreeing on where this thing wants to go. But I guess the place I have to challenge you on is you can't be responsible for her emotions.

• 23:19Dr. John Delony?

  When you're with somebody, um, Jefferson Fisher gave me this line and I love it. It's just during a private conversation. When you're with somebody, like when you marry somebody, um, when you're deeply connected to somebody, you give each other the nuclear codes to your, to your spirit. You can blow each other up, but you choose not to use them. Right? And so you can hurt each other, but she has to own her emotions, the, the responses to those feelings and you have to own yours.

• 23:49Dr. John Delony?

  And so then when you've owned yours and she's owned hers, then y'all are able to sit at the table and say, how can I love you today? And that might be different than how I can love you tomorrow. And then y'all begin to ask each other, what do we want? What do we want our home to feel like? What do we want tomorrow to feel like? What do we want 10 years from now to look like?

• 24:12Dr. John Delony?

  And so I think you, you've got a lot of, um,

• 24:19Dr. John Delony?

  councilery language, which is, which is good, but it can also trap, be, be a trap.

• 24:26Dr. John Delony?

  I'm glad that you're able to hold like a, an enlightened person can hold even the worst, most negative things and say, but because these things happened, here I am. Right? So the fact that you can be grateful for this guy that moved in on your wife,

• 24:42Dr. John Delony?

  shows, hey, like, like good, good on you, man. Like you're at a place where you're like, I, I'm going to choose to use this as a, as an opportunity for growth, not an opportunity to double down on the old stubborn mule version of myself that I was. But the real question is, do you want to show up and work really hard to be the absolute best version of yourself?

• 25:03Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 25:04Dr. John Delony?

  And then spend the rest of your life giving that full, full version of yourself over to this woman? And does she want to do the same?

• 25:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think that's the tricky part and

• 25:20Dr. John Delony?

  It's not tricky. I think, I think we want to make it really complicated, but it's real, real simple.

• 25:27Dr. John Delony?

  Does she want to become the best version of herself? Be honest, be open, not hold all of the past grievances in her back pocket like an ace of spades to play anytime she's, feels like she's down in a poker hand. And does she look at you across the table and say, I want to build something new with you?

• 25:48Dr. John Delony?

  It's not tricky. It's pretty simple. And then you, you're going to move forward, not looking for fireworks shows and attachment styles and all this other bull crap. What you're going to do is you're going to take a million tiny steps. How can I love you today? Hey, can I say that again? Whoa, I'm finding myself getting angry again. I'm going to accept that anger and then I'm going to go make a choice to do the next right thing, even though I don't feel like doing it right now. It's going to be that over and over and over again.

• 26:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, I do agree with that and

• 26:24Dr. John Delony?

  But you can't, you, you can't make her love you.

• 26:28Speaker 02

  Yep, but I did come to that conclusion.

• 26:30Dr. John Delony?

  And you can't make her want to be married to you.

• 26:33Speaker 02

  Yep. I, I tell myself daily that, you know, it happens, it happened for a reason. And, you know, it got to be like, hey, look, guys, you deserve a second chance. I'll be happy.

• 26:47Speaker 02

  If not, it's going to be sad, depressing sad, but at least, you know, I finally found a way to actually open myself and understand the small things that I was doing wrong that piled up to the point where it got what it got.

• 27:04Dr. John Delony?

  Can you give yourself some grace?

• 27:07Dr. John Delony?

  I've been through, I've been through three pregnancy losses with my wife.

• 27:12Dr. John Delony?

  It almost blew us up too.

• 27:16Dr. John Delony?

  Cause I grieved one way, she grieved another way, and we did not know, we didn't have language, we didn't have tools to talk about what grief looked like.

• 27:26Dr. John Delony?

  And her grief sent her into a black hole and my grief sent me to work. Neither of those were healthy.

• 27:34Dr. John Delony?

  But I wanted to fix the problem and move on because I didn't understand.

• 27:39Dr. John Delony?

  And she didn't understand and I didn't understand.

• 27:43Dr. John Delony?

  And then it happened again, and then it happened again.

• 27:47Dr. John Delony?

  And so what, what I've learned to do is regret some of the things I did and didn't do. And also I give old me a lot of grace, man, because I didn't know. And I do now, and now I can, I can do, I can do it better this time or next time.

• 28:06Dr. John Delony?

  But if you walk around saying like, what I did wrong and what I need to fix, then you're look at yourself like a car engine

• 28:13Dr. John Delony?

  instead of a guy that didn't have some tools.

• 28:18Dr. John Delony?

  You get the difference there?

• 28:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, I get it. And lately

• 28:25Dr. John Delony?

  Go ahead.

• 28:27Speaker 02

  Lately, I mean, last, you know, four weeks, I was able to like look in the mirror and be like, hey, what, what could I have done better? I took the small things I've done wrong and like, hey, it comes up again. How can I improve on this time? And she's seen all these small changes and she simply loves who I am today right now and who I'm becoming. And we, we still talk slightly here and there like, hey, how could we can rebuild? The only challenge that's going to be on her side is like, hey, how can I move on from the past relationship that's been there? Let's build a new one. Let me trust the new version of you.

• 29:04Dr. John Delony?

  But, but trust is not going to, trust is going to come from a thousand tiny actions. It's not just a switch you flip. And so here's your question for her. I need two weeks of a roadmap

• 29:19Dr. John Delony?

  to rebuild trust. Otherwise she's going to be chasing a feeling. And when you chase feelings, they move on you because they're not designed to tell you the truth. That's not their, that's not a feelings job. A feelings job is to keep you safe. And she's been hurt before. And so if she's trying to feel trustworthy, like that she trusts you,

• 29:44Dr. John Delony?

  that, that, that every time you do something that's trustworthy, you show up, you keep your word, you're on time, you catch yourself before you blow up or before you shut down, her body's going to move it because the goal isn't to trust you again in her nervous system. Her goal is to never get hurt like that again.

• 30:03Dr. John Delony?

  And so what she's going to have to do is sit with you and say, for the next 14 days, here's what I need. And if you can do those things, if you could choose to walk that path of reestablishing trust, and by the way, she's got to do this for you.

• 30:21Dr. John Delony?

  She didn't, she's not perfect here either. Right?

• 30:27Speaker 02

  Yep, you all did our mistakes.

• 30:29Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, so

• 30:32Dr. John Delony?

  we're both going to give each other a path towards rebuilding this thing? And reestablishing trust? And even though we don't quote unquote, feel like it, if you're doing those things, it's going to keep moving the ball forward down the, down, down the field.

• 30:50Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 30:51Dr. John Delony?

  But she's going to chase feelings if you don't have this, this direct clarity on, here's what I need you to do to reestablish trust. I need you to wake up in the morning and call me. I need you to walk in the door and not have your phone and the first thing you do is come hug me.

• 31:07Dr. John Delony?

  I want 30 minutes of time with you, no screens, no nothing. I want you just to sit at the counter while I'm making dinner, while you're making dinner and I just want to tell you about my day. And you don't roll your eyes, you listen, you ask questions, right? That's how you're going to reestablish trust. And otherwise you're going to be in a feelings competition with this fantasy of this other guy.

• 31:34Dr. John Delony?

  And he's playing a different set of rules, like a, a completely different game. You're playing football and they're playing baseball. And so she's going to have feelings of it was different than her hurt and it was a distraction from her hurt. And maybe this guy listened more, let her be sillier, or she could rest her head on his shoulder where she couldn't do that with you. And it's going to be a feelings competition and one will always win out because one is a fantasy. Y'all went through real life, real hard stuff together. This thing she has with the other guy is not real life. It's a distraction.

• 32:11Dr. John Delony?

  Does that make sense?

• 32:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, it makes a little sense.

• 32:15Dr. John Delony?

  She won't find out real life until they go through something, till his mother gets sick or until he loses his job. Or she gets pregnant with him and she miscarries again. Like then we'll start to see like, oh, now this thing's got some weight to it. But right now it's, it's playtime, it's fantasy. It's a distraction from the hurt she shared with you. And brother, if y'all have not had a, just the two of you, a funeral for this pregnancy you lost, you need to do that.

• 32:45Speaker 02

  We did.

• 32:46Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 32:49Speaker 02

  But as you mentioned before, she was trying to grieve and I was trying to just provide and that was what, you know, went different paths and as it grew more and more, I felt disrespected, but at the same time, I give, I didn't give a hundred percent for her.

• 33:07Dr. John Delony?

  Right.

• 33:08Speaker 02

  So how could I expect a hundred percent back?

• 33:09Dr. John Delony?

  But let's, let's look in the rearview mirror with some grace.

• 33:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, she said the same.

• 33:16Dr. John Delony?

  And let's look in the rearview mirror with, at, at two young folks who loved each other and who did not have the tools to handle such a big thing that, that happened.

• 33:25Dr. John Delony?

  Losing a child is one of the things that separates couples. Whenever I sit with a couple who's either about to lose a child or just did, the first question I ask them is, do y'all want to stay married?

• 33:39Dr. John Delony?

  Because everybody grieves differently. It's like a fingerprint. And if you don't have a ton of compassion, not understanding, because you don't understand it, because everybody's body does something different. If you don't have a ton of compassion to how your spouse is grieving, you will end up a million miles apart.

• 34:03Dr. John Delony?

  I feel like she's got compassion for you. I've got grace for you. The only person who doesn't have grace for the past is you.

• 34:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, she says that a lot. She said a lot lately, like, hey, look, you know, you didn't have me better.

• 34:19Dr. John Delony?

  I want, here's, I want you to write you, however old you were, six months after you lost this pregnancy, I want you to write you a letter and tell you that you forgive yourself.

• 34:34Dr. John Delony?

  Sure, there's things I wish we could have done differently. There's things I'd even say we did wrong. But you'd never dealt with a loss like this. You'd never dealt with a grieving wife like this. And so you open up your toolkit. You didn't have any tools. And we're going to commit ourselves to A, loving really well, moving forward, and B, getting those tools so that when, not if, but when we face tragedy together in the future, I'm not going to do it perfectly. Nobody does grief perfectly. It's not, it's not a judgment thing.

• 35:07Dr. John Delony?

  It's a, it's a jungle you go through. But I'm going to open my toolkit up, but I'm going to have some more tools in there. And the tools might be compassion. The tools might be emotional regulation. The tools might be, I'm going to go deal with my own anger. So that's not my body's first response to things. But write yourself a letter. And if you really want to have the courage and begin taking steps towards trust, read that letter to yourself, to your wife.

• 35:35Dr. John Delony?

  And then at the end of the day, you're going to have to sit in front of her and say, I want to dedicate my life to loving you well, which means I got to be okay. I got to fill up my pitcher so that I can spend the rest of my life filling yours. Will you do the same?

• 35:51Dr. John Delony?

  But you're not going to be able to get in the boat and row and her stand on the shore and watch you row to determine whether she wants to be married to you. She's going to have to get in the boat too. Both feet, both of y'all. How are we going to do our money? How are we going to do our conversations? How are we going to solve problems in here? How are we going to forgive each other moving forward? Because we're both going to hurt each other again. That's the nature of relationships. We're going to say the wrong thing. We're going to do the wrong thing.

• 36:15Dr. John Delony?

  The question isn't, do relationships run out of gas? I just don't believe in that. I believe if one or both decide, I don't want to keep driving this thing forward. Pick my foot off the gas. Or I'm going to take an exit ramp. And so if y'all want to get back on the highway together, y'all get to choose to do that and just be really clear with the path. Thanks for the call, brother. Appreciate you, man. You're doing the hard work and that level of reflection is pretty impressive. So I'm proud of you, man. Y'all call anytime. We come back. A woman asks how to balance healthy habits without feeling socially isolated. This is a big conversation happening all over the country. I can't wait to jump in.

• 36:55Dr. John Delony?

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• 37:39Dr. John Delony?

  prayer. Hallow is simple and guided and it meets you right where you are to help you anchor your faith practice with daily reflections, scripture, music, special series, and most importantly, peace. Ask yourself, who do you want to be 90 days from now? If you want more peace, if you want to be more grounded in your faith, or if you want to answer some big faith questions, give Hallow a try. Again, you can try Hallow for free for 90 days at hallow.com/deloney. That's three months for free at hallow.com/deloney.

• 38:13Dr. John Delony?

  All right, let's go out to Connecticut. Spell that one and talk to Maggie. What's up Maggie?

• 38:19Speaker 03

  Hi, how are you?

• 38:20Dr. John Delony?

  Awesome. How are you?

• 38:22Speaker 03

  Good. This is so cool. I just submitted my question and now I'm talking to you.

• 38:25Dr. John Delony?

  That's fantastic. It's so cool for me. What's up?

• 38:29Speaker 03

  All right. So my question is, how do you maintain healthy habits like not drinking, regular exercise, eating well, and going to bed early while still staying socially engaged and forming new connections? I noticed that a lot of these activities kind of revolve around sharing a meal, having a drink and staying up late. And they all tend to bond people. And when you opt out, I feel a little lonely and honestly, kind of boring. So how do you navigate all that?

• 38:56Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, man, this is, this is the million dollar question right now. And my buddy, Michael Easter, just wrote a great article about the pathology of over-optimization. Right? Like, what's the point in having 5% body fat and a perfect sleep score on whatever device you're wearing if you have no friends?

• 39:22Speaker 03

  Exactly. And I don't really want to go over there and be like, oh, I'm eating 1,500 calories, so I can't enjoy this meal with you.

• 39:29Dr. John Delony?

  I, I, I mean, I could tell you how I have managed that. And I'm a guy who struggled with disordered eating my whole life. And I went down rabbit holes way before they were cool. I've been tracking stuff since, I mean, I had spreadsheets with blood. I mean, I'm, I'm a dork. Okay. I could tell you now, I don't have any sleep. I don't have any gear on anymore. I don't track anything anymore. If I'm trying to do a particular cut, I do track calories for a season using the Carbon app. But other than that, like, I'm pretty loosey goose now. And I, but I can tell you the principles that I hang on to.

• 40:11Dr. John Delony?

  I, I don't want to get to the end of my life, sitting in a rocking chair, an old wrinkled old man, and have looked back on my life and said, man, really crushed that sleep score. Right?

• 40:26Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 40:27Dr. John Delony?

  I want to look back on my life with a couple of other old people on the rocking chairs and be like, can you believe we made that? We survived that? Remember that one time? I want that. I want that. Right? So for me, it's become a guy who lives his life out of balance quite often. It's become a balancing act. Here's my principles and they're different for everybody. I mostly try to get as, as good a sleep as I can. And that means that if I have a chance to go do a comedy set, I'm going to be up late that night. Tomorrow night, I'm, I'm driving to another state with a couple of other comedians and we're, I'm headlining a thing. I'm going to be up really, really late. I would much rather have that shared experience than an extra hour of sleep that night. But that

• 41:11Dr. John Delony?

  also means I got to be pretty smart about the rest of the week. Great, cool.

• 41:17Dr. John Delony?

  I don't drink. And yesterday at band practice, a guy showed up with a six pack of beer and I was like, I'll have one. And it was awesome. Do you know what I'm saying? So it's like, um, and it probably, if I tracked my sleep, it would have impacted my REM sleep last night a little bit. Big deal. I had fun with my friends last night. We jammed. We played 80s metal. It was awesome. And then I worked out this morning. So you get what I'm saying?

• 41:46Speaker 03

  Yeah. So you kind of don't opt out of like all of them at once. You kind of just pick the ones that you kind of want to go for it. Does that make sense?

• 41:54Dr. John Delony?

  I, I, I, I want to ask myself, why, what am I optimizing for? And if it's not relationships and peace, then I don't want it.

• 42:05Speaker 03

  Right.

• 42:05Dr. John Delony?

  It's the reason I don't day trade. It's the reason I don't have a bunch of single stocks. I'm probably leaving money on the table, but I'm sleeping well at night. You get what I'm saying?

• 42:17Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 42:17Dr. John Delony?

  Like, it's just a, the ROI for my life after sitting with people who have everything, anything you can imagine. They got it. And they are miserable.

• 42:30Dr. John Delony?

  And the most fit people on the planet. And they're miserable.

• 42:37Speaker 03

  I know. And I, I just don't want that.

• 42:39Dr. John Delony?

  No. So, so let me ask you.

• 42:41Speaker 03

  Because I'm saying this stuff to live a life, not to keep me from it.

• 42:44Dr. John Delony?

  There you go. I want to feel good in the morning so that I'm a good husband and a good dad. And I show up here within an hour of when I said I was going to, to start the show, right? Like, and I want to be pleasant to be around. You know what my word of the year was last year? Delightful. Me. Because I got tired of walking into rooms and everyone went, ugh. Or they went, because that guy's going to be nuts. And so I'm more delightful when I sleep. I'm more delightful when, um, you know, I take care of myself. Ta-da. But man, a couple of times a week, I can get wheels off. So let me ask you, what are you optimizing for?

• 43:29Speaker 03

  So I am 33 right now. I'm heading into my last year of law school. So I've been working full time, going to school part time. So right now, it's kind of exciting because I'm looking ahead. And I want to get married and have kids, but I also like, kind of want to be like a community-based attorney. So I feel like I got it. Like networking is going to be very important to me, um, coming up. And I'm excited to do that. But also, like, I built a lot of habits in law school, like going to bed early and, you know, trying to maintain my weight in law school because it's stressful. So I want to keep those habits, but still kind of be involved in the community.

• 44:11Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, I don't, where do you feel like those are in opposition?

• 44:17Speaker 03

  Um, it just seems hard when everything is like, you know, every, you go out for, you go to a restaurant and like, you want to eat the pasta and you want to enjoy the good meal. Or you're having a drink and you feel like, I don't know, I feel like drinking is like kind of a bonding experience. And then when you opt out of it, I don't know, I just feel like alone and kind of boring.

• 44:40Dr. John Delony?

  Whose story is that?

• 44:44Speaker 03

  Um,

• 44:49Speaker 03

  I don't, I don't know. I guess you just don't, I guess I just don't feel like the fun person, like, when.

• 45:01Speaker 03

  Say no, you know what I mean? Like, I've always been the kind of responsible one. I've always kind of done the quite right thing. So it feels weird to say yes.

• 45:12Dr. John Delony?

  What version of yourself do you think improves when you've been drinking?

• 45:18Speaker 03

  Um, well, to be honest, I don't really drink a lot. Like, I have two drinks and then I'm done. I'm a lightweight. So I think it's just easier to have a conversation and, you know, like, like, what do you even do with your hands sometimes?

• 45:35Speaker 03

  Or like, what do you talk about when you're not talking about the meal or having, you know, you're not talking about drinking, you know?

• 45:42Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, and I've had this conversation with, with Chris Williamson. He, uh, he has a great take on it.

• 45:50Dr. John Delony?

  He hosts the Modern Wisdom Podcast, which I love. I was listening to it on the way into the office this morning. I love his work, but he, he said the best podcasters are men and women who live really interesting lives off the microphone.

• 46:07Dr. John Delony?

  And so you're in a season right now where you are, like, law school in and of itself is a nightmare. Put on top of that, um, working full time, you're going part-time to law school in your three L year, which is nightmare on top of nightmare. And you've given yourself, I, I would probably posit this as some sort of Xanax, like a thing I can control in a world where I'm out of control, right? You can't control grading, you can't control what all the techno overlords are saying about the future of the legal profession. You can't, any of that stuff, like, the one thing I can control is I will not go to that party and I will go to bed and I'll get perfect hours of sleep.

• 46:49Dr. John Delony?

  I will have zero drinks. I will have 1,500 calories. Like, you can control those things, but that control becomes not in service to you to give you the life that you want. It becomes a thing you can control, it becomes a pathology.

• 47:05Speaker 03

  What do you mean pathology?

• 47:07Dr. John Delony?

  It becomes a very unhealthy, healthy habit, a, a healthy habit done for unhealthy reasons, let me say it that way.

• 47:17Dr. John Delony?

  Right?

• 47:19Dr. John Delony?

  Like, it is important for my body to have an alarm system called anxiety in case it notices something in my environment that I need to get away from or to turn and fight.

• 47:30Dr. John Delony?

  It becomes a pathology when it starts sending that alarm for everything all the time.

• 47:36Dr. John Delony?

  Right? So that healthy thing done unhealthily will kill you.

• 47:44Dr. John Delony?

  And so the bigger question for me is, like,

• 47:49Dr. John Delony?

  what kind of life do you want to have?

• 47:55Dr. John Delony?

  Or how do you solve for peace as a community-based lawyer?

• 48:06Dr. John Delony?

  What do you think?

• 48:10Speaker 03

  Well, I think it's gonna take practice. Um, like, I don't want to use those things as, like, a crutch, you know what I mean? Like, and I hear what you're saying about control and I, I totally agree with that. Um, and, you know, working, just working in the legal field is pretty stressful.

• 48:33Dr. John Delony?

  It's so stressful.

• 48:35Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 48:35Dr. John Delony?

  It's so stressful.

• 48:36Speaker 03

  Cause you're really, I, the thing that I like is taking and helping people with their problems, but I'm sure like you, it, it can be a lot.

• 48:44Dr. John Delony?

  It's a ton, but also, like, you and I have an extra responsibility to make sure we're well outside of the office so that when we show up and sit with hurting people, we're anchored in, right? And so some of that comes at a cost, like, I, I do go to bed earlier than all of my friends.

• 49:05Dr. John Delony?

  Right?

• 49:05Speaker 03

  So then having to know which way, if you're, like, leaning too far into the healthy habits or you're not leaning.

• 49:12Dr. John Delony?

  It's not either or.

• 49:15Dr. John Delony?

  It's why once a month you get with a group of friends and ask yourself and be reflective, do I like the life I'm living? Cause there's, the myth of it all is that there's a balance somewhere. It's one of the greatest nonsensical lies of our time.

• 49:31Dr. John Delony?

  There's never been this stupid idea of balance ever in human history. You know what led the charge? Seasons.

• 49:39Dr. John Delony?

  There were seasons when you get up at 4:30, cause that's when the sun cracked the horizon and you worked until it went down. That way your family could live through the winter. And then when there was 40 feet of snow outside, you sat by your fire, cause you couldn't go outside. There was no balance. It was seasons. And we opted out, I mean, we've, we've hacked our way around weather. We have air conditioners and heaters and cold plunges and saunas, like, we worked around it and now we think we're above seasons. We're not. And so we're shooting for this thing called balance. What's the right amount of cold and the right amount of, just shut up. Like, what kind of life do you want, right? And so, and I'm not saying you shut up, I'm saying us culturally shut up.

• 50:22Speaker 03

  Right.

• 50:22Dr. John Delony?

  Um, um, and so, man, there's gonna be, like, for the last two years and especially the last year, I've been working on what I will call the book of my lifetime. And there has been zero balance in my life.

• 50:38Dr. John Delony?

  None, zero. I've been so out of whack, out of balance, that I'm a, I'm a walking zombie right now. But here's what's awesome. I had it on the calendar.

• 50:49Dr. John Delony?

  I knew this was coming. And so this, into the summer and into the fall, I've, I'm, I am built in with my wife, with my colleagues, restoration, ways I can get my feet back underneath me.

• 51:05Dr. John Delony?

  Does that make sense? And so you're in a season as a three L, heading into taking the bar while you're also working full-time, there is no, nothing, no semblance of balance in your life.

• 51:16Dr. John Delony?

  And that's super okay.

• 51:20Dr. John Delony?

  You're probably right to be doubling down on, I need to make sure I'm sleeping, I'm exercising, I'm not just going off the rails on a crazy train with my diet, right? Like, you're probably really wise to do that. And if you think you're kind of boring, but you're getting up as the best version of yourself, awesome.

• 51:38Dr. John Delony?

  It's like, it's like, it's the dead of winter and you come out in a coat and you don't feel sexy right now. Right? Cause you have all of your poofy jackets on. Great, it's that sexy season, it's cold outside. Right?

• 51:52Dr. John Delony?

  It's just remembering swimsuit season's coming. It's just not right now. And I want you to be intentional about what do I want that summer to look like when it gets here? What do I want, like, you get that, you, you log in and it says boom, you pass the bar.

• 52:08Dr. John Delony?

  What do you want the day after that to feel like?

• 52:17Speaker 03

  I want to talk to people again.

• 52:18Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 52:19Speaker 03

  I, yeah.

• 52:20Dr. John Delony?

  Amazing. So put it on the calendar, build it in.

• 52:24Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 52:25Dr. John Delony?

  You're, you're not crazy for being out of balance right now.

• 52:31Dr. John Delony?

  You're, you're in one of the most stressful seasons a human can go through. And if you haven't been in a law school environment, people just don't know.

• 52:40Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 52:40Dr. John Delony?

  And the one recommendation I gave to every one of my law students was don't try to work. And you're working full-time, right? So you're adding on top of it. And it, cause you have to.

• 52:49Speaker 03

  Well, I'm working full-time because I'm going debt-free.

• 52:51Dr. John Delony?

  That's it. I mean, so you're, you are, you are grinding in a really noble and powerful way. Don't add to that grind. Don't take this huge wagon you're trying to drag through the jungle and add cinder blocks to it of shame and guilt and I should be and I can't believe I'm not.

• 53:09Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 53:10Dr. John Delony?

  You don't need any more weight on that wagon you're pulling.

• 53:14Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 53:15Dr. John Delony?

  You do need something on the calendar that says, I'm gonna go to Ireland or I'm gonna go to the beach and I'm gonna be silly and I'm gonna exhale, I'm gonna stay up too late, like, I'm going to, my, here's my rule of thumb. One of my rules of life for John Deloney is, I don't ever fall off the wagon. But I do park that wagon and climb down and roll around in the mud sometimes.

• 53:42Dr. John Delony?

  It's all about intent, it's all about intentionality.

• 53:47Dr. John Delony?

  Does that make sense?

• 53:49Speaker 03

  Yeah. So you're planning to jump off.

• 53:52Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, I, I knew last night, dude, I'm playing 80s metal with great friends and this will just feel better in the morning if I didn't sleep very well. Right? Like, I knew it, just gonna be more fun.

• 54:10Dr. John Delony?

  And by the way, that was a story I told myself too. I would've had just as much fun without it, but I don't know, it just felt awesome.

• 54:16Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 54:18Dr. John Delony?

  And I'm a grown-up, you know what I can do? Kind of whatever I want.

• 54:24Speaker 03

  Yeah, but that's also scary.

• 54:25Dr. John Delony?

  It is. And, and you're also looking over the edge of a whole bunch of freedom. Right?

• 54:30Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 54:31Dr. John Delony?

  And that freedom comes, that freedom comes great responsibilities and freedom brings risk with it.

• 54:41Dr. John Delony?

  If, if you're a great attorney who wakes up every day with an eye towards, I want to do the best I can to help people, business will find you.

• 54:53Dr. John Delony?

  Colleagues will refer you.

• 54:59Dr. John Delony?

  You know what I'm saying?

• 55:02Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 55:02Dr. John Delony?

  And you know what you have that very, very, very few of your classmates and your colleagues are gonna have? No student loan payments.

• 55:11Dr. John Delony?

  You know what that means? That means you can take whatever cases you want or don't want. That means you can really anchor into a really firm moral compass.

• 55:24Dr. John Delony?

  Because you don't have to, you don't have a lender leaning over your, like a shadow over you when you sleep at night saying, "Hey, you owe me money tomorrow."

• 55:37Dr. John Delony?

  And so all of your classmates are running around nervous, freaked out, like, begin to dream a little bit, "What kind of life do I want to build?"

• 55:45Dr. John Delony?

  And if you want to get married, have kids, which I think would be amazing and awesome, I'm a big fan, then I would skip the networking events and I'd go on dates.

• 55:57Speaker 03

  Yeah. I guess it's just how you do that without having a drink.

• 56:04Dr. John Delony?

  I just don't outsource my judgment very often.

• 56:09Speaker 03

  What do you mean by that?

• 56:11Dr. John Delony?

  I'm just pretty careful about who gets a vote into whether, like, on what I'm doing or not doing.

• 56:21Dr. John Delony?

  Like, if I'm with some people and I'm like, "No, I'm gonna have Diet Coke tonight," and they're like, "Are you serious? Should I get a drink?" I'm just not gonna hang out with those people anymore.

• 56:32Dr. John Delony?

  Like, I don't have time for that. And I hang out with wild people, and I get that zero times, zero.

• 56:41Dr. John Delony?

  I can't remember the last time somebody said something to me about not drinking very often.

• 56:47Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 56:48Dr. John Delony?

  And so you have to be honest about whether those stories are real, and by the way, the pressure to drink in law school culture is astronomical. If that's the voices you're allowing into your spirit, just close that door, slam it shut today. But if there really isn't other voices, and these are just stories you're telling yourself, "I'm not as fun if, I'm nervous, I'm uncomfortable if," I'll begin to ask you, "What kind of life are you leading outside of whatever it is you're doing, so that when you show up at that table, you're the best version of yourself?

• 57:21Dr. John Delony?

  That person that you want to most be?

• 57:26Dr. John Delony?

  And that's the person that gets a vote?

• 57:30Dr. John Delony?

  And I always caution everybody, man, if you can't be the best version of yourself without alcohol, without a drink, without drugs, like, talk to somebody.

• 57:44Dr. John Delony?

  Because there's a mask, there's a shield there somewhere that alcohol helps remove, and I want to know, is that shield self-serving? Or is there a way we can take it down without having to chemically alter it?

• 58:01Dr. John Delony?

  I just want peace in my life, which means I want laughter and joy and fun, and mostly sleeping and some staying up way too late.

• 58:10Dr. John Delony?

  So take care of yourself. You're not in a season of balance, you're not gonna be for a while, that's okay. Put some things on the calendar, and then begin to ask yourself, "How do I want this thing to feel?

• 58:20Dr. John Delony?

  Both in the dead of winter, which is what season you're in right now, and in the spring breaks." Thanks for the call, sister.

• 58:29Dr. John Delony?

  As you know, I'm a big believer in therapy when it's necessary. It's a powerful way to dig into patterns, personal challenges, and practice new ways of relating to others and living life in the presence of a trained, licensed professional. But sometimes challenges take more than a traditional 50-minute therapy session. Sometimes pausing the grind of everyday life and digging into a multi-day intensive experience with your spouse or your kids can transform everything in your home, everything in your marriage, and everything in your life. This is why I want to tell you about Capstone Wellness and their Vine and Root program. Their Vine and Root program is a deeper level of care, three-to-five-day therapy intensives

• 59:10Dr. John Delony?

  for couples, families, and individuals who need more than once-a-week sessions to change their life. Whether it's trauma, addiction, marriage challenges, burnout, or anything, the therapist at Vine and Root can help you get to the root and leave with tools and a plan. They are a Christian organization, but they help people of all faiths, all backgrounds, and all experiences. They don't push anything on anybody, and they follow a strict code of ethics. Vine and Root is a real investment of your time, your energy, and your money. But if you're serious about getting well, change requires serious commitment. Go to capstonewellness.com/daloni and click on Vine and Root to learn more. That's capstonewellness.com/daloni.

• 59:55Dr. John Delony?

  All right, what's up, Kelly?

• 59:56Speaker 04

  All right, so I have a question about the Together app.

• 59:59Dr. John Delony?

  You seem to have a lot of them.

• 1:00:01Speaker 04

  I do.

• 1:00:03Speaker 04

  And so, because that's my job.

• 1:00:05Dr. John Delony?

  Oh, that's what you're doing, okay. I thought you just continued to have more and more questions.

• 1:00:09Speaker 04

  I have a lot of questions for you, but they're not for now. Okay, so one of the biggest things we hear from people that are using the app, when they're first coming on and they're filling out their, kind of intake stuff about what the issues are in their marriage and things like that, is that people have negative communication patterns. That's a big one that comes up. First of all, what does that mean to have negative communication patterns, and how can an app like this help?

• 1:00:38Dr. John Delony?

  It's been my experience, I would say, 999 times out of 1,000, when somebody says, "We need to work on our communication," or "We're not communicating well in our marriage or relationship," or whatever. What they're telling me is, "I want my spouse or romantic partners to do something different, and I need a different way to tell them, so they'll do it." Meaning, "I want to work on my communication, so I can get them to do whatever I want." And that's just not how, that's communication for coercion, to force somebody, et cetera. So, most people come to an app like this, to a marriage conference, to buy a marriage

• 1:01:19Dr. John Delony?

  book, with some idea that we need to communicate better, and they're right, but underneath that, what they want is, "I just want my spouse to do whatever I want them to do." And that's not ever a successful path towards healing a relationship. And so, what the app does is, the app gives very clear prompts for questions to ask, things to do, things to say, and as you progress through the app, it gives you frameworks for conflict, not for catharsis, and the difference is, not for five-hour marathon conversations where we just talk, talk, talk, and get all of our feelings out, which feels good, but you don't solve anything.

• 1:02:01Dr. John Delony?

  The app actually gives you a framework for, "This thing happened, here's a story I made up about it, here's what I'd like to be different next time." All right, right? So it actually walks you through it. So, yeah, the app will teach you very specific things for how to communicate better in your marriage, not to get your partner to do what you want him to do, but to bring y'all closer together so that y'all can build the marriage you want. See you next time.