Moment 16 - Rio Ferdinand On How To Create A World-Class Culture

In these ‘Moment’ episodes of my podcast, I’ll be selecting my favourite moments from previous episodes of The Diary Of A CEO. I’ve supported Manchester United for years and some of the fondest memories watching my team were made during Rio Ferdinand’s Man United era. In today’s clip, Rio reveals the secrets behind Sir Alex Ferguson’s world-class, trophy-winning culture which made Manchester United one of the greatest clubs in the world. Episode 79 - https://g2ul0.app.link/sMvFiMdXfib Rio: https://twitter.com/rioferdy5 https://www.instagram.com/rioferdy5/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:06Steven Bartlett?

  You know, you talk there about having high standards being one of the really important things for your kids. This is something that clearly, you know, was demonstrated when you got to Old Trafford and you joined Manchester United for that record transfer. But how did, how did they create high standards at Old Trafford versus the other clubs you'd played at, what, you know, West Ham and Leeds, et cetera? What was it they were doing that kept those standards so high? You then also took about going to QPR and seeing low standards and certain type of negativity in the changing room. But what was it that they were doing or not doing? Because I want to create high standards in my team and within my life, so.

• 0:42Speaker 01

  Good habits.

• 0:43Steven Bartlett?

  Right.

• 0:44Speaker 01

  Every day, good habits. Whether it's punctuality, again, work ethic, attention to detail, intensity, when you're training on a training pitch, respecting each other. But all those things just, they come together and it creates a culture at the club. And I've been at West Ham, I've been at Leeds, two very good clubs, great clubs. But they, they didn't have that, that culture, which meant there was ability to win. But it starts from somewhere. So Alex Ferguson already won at Aberdeen, so he knew how to create that culture. He went to Man United, didn't have that winning mentality at the time when

• 1:26Speaker 01

  he went there. He created that. And it all stems, I always think, great leadership is definitely what gives you an opportunity to be successful. And I, I noticed that throughout my career. And when you've, you've set the foundations and you've created that culture, you don't, as a, as a leader, have to be there every day in that sense. He was at the training ground every day. How many times do you think he came into our changing room?

• 1:49Steven Bartlett?

  No idea.

• 1:50Speaker 01

  You wouldn't feel one hand?

• 1:51Steven Bartlett?

  Really?

• 1:52Speaker 01

  No, never came in the changing room. In the training ground, we're there every day. Cause he, he knew that the culture was set and then he had lieutenants like me, Giggsy, Gary Neville, et cetera, who were then filtering that down to any of the younger players on the new signs who didn't know the culture yet. And then that, then those players became the, the culture leaders. And so it was, it was crazy, man. And even for instance, if he wasn't at the training ground watching training, the training intensity might drop that little one percent, two percent, but you'd notice it because the manager's not there.

• 2:24Steven Bartlett?

  Cause he wasn't in the building.

• 2:25Speaker 01

  Cause he wasn't, you didn't, you didn't feel him, that aura that he could be on his phone making bets, which you normally would be. Not interested in training, but his presence alone was enough. And it just made, when you look back and you think it's, it's leadership is just key. And we were talking about investing earlier.

• 2:40Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah.

• 2:40Speaker 01

  You don't, like investing in the, the leader.

• 2:42Steven Bartlett?

  The people, yeah.

• 2:43Speaker 01

  The people, like it's, it's so important, I think. And I, I think every industry, it's like that. Football's where I'm from and that's what it's like there. But I see what, since I've retired, that's replicated in other industries, a hundred percent.

• 2:55Steven Bartlett?

  Isn't it funny as well with culture? Because you're right, what you said there is basically like, what I've, something I used to think at social change, which is if a culture's strong enough, new people become like the culture. If this culture's weak, the culture becomes like the new people.

• 3:07Speaker 01

  Hundred percent.

• 3:08Steven Bartlett?

  Do you know what I mean?

• 3:09Speaker 01

  You couldn't have put it any better. And I'll give you an example, like, and again, I didn't, I didn't say it as eloquently as that when I was playing football, but Berbatov came to Man United.

• 3:22Steven Bartlett?

  Oh yeah, casual babs.

• 3:24Speaker 01

  He was wicked player, beautiful touch, sexy looking footballer, wicked. And before a big Champions League game, I think it was Barcelona, he just weren't working hard enough for the team. And I need, I had the ball on this side of the pitch and I needed him to come over and help. Mate, he's just walking like, and I ended up just kicking the ball off and going crazy. What are you doing? Get over, what's wrong? Wait, when I get over, then we'll do it. And that's again, that's not our culture. At Barcelona, they play, they wait, that's their culture, that's not our culture. You want to play Barcelona away, go Barcelona.

• 3:58Steven Bartlett?

  Um.

• 3:58Speaker 01

  Here, it's not the same. And if you don't buy into our culture, you won't be here long.

• 4:03Steven Bartlett?

  Um.

• 4:03Speaker 01

  And that's the way it was at United. If you came and you weren't in the, you didn't buy into the culture and immerse yourself in it and become part of the fabric of the place, you weren't there more than a year or two. Or you definitely wasn't an integral member of that squad. And so it was definitely, like you say, the culture is just, you have to become part of that culture that you go into if it's strong enough.

• 4:24Steven Bartlett?

  See this in business, it's crazy. You should do, I feel like the perspective you've got from being in that changing room and understand, because this, it's the same principles in business.

• 4:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:31Steven Bartlett?

  It was the same at Social Chain when, when, when we grew the company and I realised that I had to be like.

• 4:36Speaker 01

  Did you drive that?

• 4:37Steven Bartlett?

  Hundred percent.

• 4:39Speaker 01

  Um.

• 4:39Steven Bartlett?

  And my, like, it got to the point where what you've described is people would understand who we were without us having to say. And you would have your disciples basically introducing new people to the company and going, that's not a social chain thing to do. And we'd get that all the time. You'd say, you people in the office would go, and for example, and the crazy, the other point I was going to say is when the culture's that strong, you, it's so easy to see when someone doesn't fit or they don't stand out. We had, you know, someone start on their first day at Social Chain and they're doing their initiation. And then they, at the end of the initiation, they, they had two middle fingers and then walked back to their desk. I said, go get him, we fired him, he's gone. First day at Social Chain. And then the second, the second instance where, and it sends a message to the team.

• 5:17Speaker 01

  Um.

• 5:17Steven Bartlett?

  Because they, I never knew, it was instinctive to me. I said, that's not a social chain person, get him out. There was another instance where we had a girl join who someone had hired. And they told me that she used to like bully people at her last place and she had like a really bad attitude and stuff. And actually, one of the guys, two of the guys in our team said, oh yeah, we used to work with her and she was a bit of a bully. So, uh, I, I, I remember having the conversation and I said, you can't, like, I, in a very, very nice way, I said, she, she can't be here tomorrow. Because that's not who we are here. And my team were like, but we need her for this client, we need her for this project. I was uncompromising. I said, no, we're not having her here. I don't care if we lose the job. That, you know, I can't, I used to say to my team, I can't have my name attached to a culture like where we have people in it who are like that. So she's gone today. I think we'll figure it out. If we lose the client, whatever.

• 6:01Steven Bartlett?

  And, and it wasn't until years later that you hear the team come back to you and they say that moment where you, you weren't willing to let that person we needed in the team because they weren't right for the culture.

• 6:09Speaker 01

  Um.

• 6:10Steven Bartlett?

  They, the team said that to me. And that's exactly what I hear from you. I'm not blowing smoke up my own arse because I didn't realise at the time.

• 6:15Speaker 01

  Recognised that.

• 6:16Steven Bartlett?

  It wasn't, it wasn't, it wasn't intentional. It was, I just. Wanted to enjoy my life and the company to be a really, really clear certain way. And I felt that that's what we needed to do to succeed. And in hindsight, and as you say it to me, I'm like, oh, yeah. It was being unnegotiable, right?

• 6:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, and that's what Sir Alex Ferguson was great at. If he saw something that was going to be detrimental to the culture of the club. It was out, that was a non-negotiable.

• 6:39Steven Bartlett?

  Even if you needed them.

• 6:41Speaker 01

  So you look at Roy Keane.

• 6:42Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 6:43Speaker 01

  Was the captain, was the leader. The rules have been broken, you're gone. David Beckham, peak of his powers. Going out of a Spice Girl. Bringing all sorts of eyeballs to the football club, making it international play. See you later. Yap Stam, the best centre-half in the world at the time. Said something about some of the players in a book or something, goodbye. Ruud van Nistelrooy, the best number nine in the world at the time, goodbye. Like, if you don't fit the culture and you don't adhere to the rules that are there, good night. And we'll move on and we'll build around other people. It's crazy, it's like, and at the time you sit there and you think, Bex, you can't sell Bex, man.

• 7:25Speaker 01

  Jesus, who's going to come in like, it's like, number seven, sells all the shirts, like, everyone loves him, wherever we go, Bex is like a Beatles. Like, crazy.

• 7:36Speaker 01

  Same with Ruud van Nistelrooy, you're thinking, how are we going to score goals now, man? Who's going to score us the goals? Rooney and Ronaldo are really young, still inexperienced.

• 7:45Speaker 01

  But he had that belief and that vision just to like, it was the culture over everything.

• 7:49Steven Bartlett?

  No one's bigger than the club.

• 7:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, no one's bigger than the club, yeah. It's so true, man. And again, like you say, that reverberates around the dressing room. Like, you better stay in line, you better just like, live by the rules that are here already. And stay part of that culture. The hard work, the intensity, the respect. And so that you, he would dig out the most experienced player. Who hasn't even done anything and you'd sit there and go, what, like? Why is he shouting at me for? But he was doing that to you because he knew you could take it, but the effect that it would have on the young ones, on the other ones. Do you know what I mean? So playing the mind games, man, I love it, it's good. But you only, the mad thing is, when you're in it, like you're saying, you're talking about social change, you probably didn't realise at the time. But when you sit back and you're outside and you look back in that bubble, you think.

• 8:36Speaker 01

  Shit, man, yeah. That's why I didn't think about it, but that's why I done it.

• 8:41Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 8:42Speaker 01

  Right, and I'm right now, or I'm wrong, whatever it is, do you know what I mean? That's how we think about like certain things that Fergie done, you think actually he weren't just lucky, man, he actually obviously was plotting and planning that type of stuff.

• 8:56Steven Bartlett?

  I am, I wonder how much of that stuff was intentional with him though, in terms of like, I'm sure he wasn't going in the back room and planning it. It's just like, surely it's just like who he was. And I sometimes think, you know, you get managers that will come into clubs and they'll try and be like Fergie. But you can't, because you can't act for that long and that consistently. Because from what you're saying about Fergie, it's like, it's not like four things he's doing, it's a thousand things he's doing consistently, which show his values. Right? And you can't act for 27 years, whatever it is, across a thousand touchpoints. So it makes me feel like, how do you teach that? Like, it was, it was, it almost feels like it was just instinctive to Fergie.

• 9:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think it was instinctive. He was, he's, that's just him. And don't forget his experience as well would have played a big part in that. He was at the club for like 26 or so years, 27 years. So that's, there's a valuable amount of experience gained in that time. But I always look at it like, when I went into the Man United changing room, I sat there and just looked around and thought, who's good at what? And let me just take elements of these people and add it to my, my game and my preparation and my recovery. And that's what I've done. Ryan Giggs was great at recovery and preparation, done yoga and stuff like that, took that out of his, of his, his book. Roy Keane, leadership, the way he demanded standards on a daily basis, Scullsey, best levels in training every day.

• 10:13Speaker 01

  Like all them things, I was just trying to, trying to be like little parts of different people. And then that allows hopefully for you to grow into a better person, a better player, et cetera. And I think that's the same with, with other industries and business since I retired, it's like. You go in and try and be like someone else, you're gonna fail. Because you can't be like the original. But if you're taking bits from elsewhere, you might be able to get beyond that, what you see as the best, because you're getting more, you're taking more good things from that person, but then from various other people to build maybe past that. And that's the way I'll try and work with stuff now in my life. There's no one person that's gonna make me the best of what I wanna be. But a group and taking from everywhere, I've got a better chance.