Pod Insights The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett Most Replayed Moment: Are Your Household And Beauty Products Secretly Toxic? Dr Yvonne Burkart About this episode Identifying toxins in our home is a strong step towards protecting our long-term health. So what are the culprits? How safe are our candles, deodorants, incense?
Dr Yvonne Burkart is an environmental health expert and advocate known for her work in educating others about the harmful effects of everyday chemicals in beauty, personal care, and household products. In this moment, Dr Burkart dives deep into the hidden dangers lurking in the everyday products we use – from deodorants to candles – and the significant impact they have on our health. Learn practical solutions to detoxify your life and avoid these harmful chemicals where possible!
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Transcript Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:04 Steven Bartlett? Knowing what you know, surely it's built up a bit of, I don't know, a bit of a... If I knew all that you knew, I think, about toxins in our environment, I would be, A, a really annoying person at like every dinner party, and B, there'd be a certain sense of, I guess, emergency and urgency to me. Because I'd be looking around at all my friends and I'd be, if I understood the consequences of them drinking from that plastic container or putting that product on their face, I feel like I'd try to be shouted at the world to tell them to stop. Do you feel a sense of that? You directly witnessed the impact that making these changes and detoxifying your environment had on you. Do you feel a sense of like, you know,
0:49 Speaker 01 Absolutely. I mean, I can't even tell you how much passion it has ignited in me to be able to share this information and spread it as far and wide as possible because it's literally affecting every single person on this planet. And I do find it sometimes challenging not to call someone out and say, "Hey, be careful with that." But you know, I think it comes from being a living example and I've found that that is much more effective at being a living example instead of telling people, "Don't do this, don't do that." Showing them what's possible. Look at what happened to me. Look at my journey. Look at the benefit that I feel. And then, once you start removing these things and making these simple swaps, it's about simple, small, incremental shifts that anyone can do
1:34 Speaker 01 over the long term. Because it's really about, it's a marathon, not a race. It's not about, you've got to throw everything away and you've got to hide under a rock. Because I tried that and it didn't work. And it caused more stress. And stress is harmful. So, being a living example, empowering people with information,
1:55 Speaker 01 educating about the problem, but coming with the solution.
1:59 Steven Bartlett? You mentioned cancer is one of the downstream consequences of living in a toxic environment. And we talked about how sperm quality has reduced over the last couple of decades. When we look at the stats around cancer, are there any stats in particular that you think are most clearly associated with us living in such a toxic environment? One of them that always brings to mind is breast cancer, because I think I read or heard that breast cancer is on the rise, or has been rising for the last couple of decades. And when you look at the Western world versus something like, you know, a tribe in Africa, they don't see the same levels of breast cancer.
2:35 Speaker 01 Yeah, that is definitely a concern, because cancer historically was a disease of age, aging. It wasn't so common that you see cancer in your 30s, 40s, and even 50s. Now, we're seeing a shift, the window is moving earlier and earlier. Cancer incidence, like you said, breast cancer incidence is definitely on the rise. I myself never knew anyone that suffered from breast cancer, or survived it, until I hit my 30s. Then I knew five people that had it, including two people that I worked with in the toxicology lab.
3:10 Steven Bartlett? And what are your suspicions about the root causes of this rising cancer?
3:14 Speaker 01 I definitely think there is a huge environmental component to it, because a lot of what was believed decades ago was that disease and cancer incidence had to do with your genes. You were just genetically predisposed. You were unlucky. But in actuality, what we're seeing now is that the environment plays such a massive role in whether or not you actually have cancer. So just because you have the predisposition to developing breast cancer, such as the BRCA gene, doesn't mean you'll get it. It really depends on your lifestyle, and how you lived, but also how your ancestors lived, right?
3:56 Speaker 01 We talked about the multi-generational effect of these chemicals, depending on how your ancestors lived, how your grandmother and how your mother lived, could predispose you to this.
4:07 Steven Bartlett? And have there been any studies that show the impact of these sort of everyday chemicals on cancer risk?
4:13 Speaker 01 Yes, and that's something that is, I don't want to say that it's exciting, but I'm glad that we finally have proof. I don't want to see these studies. I hate seeing this, actually. I'm really angry that people have to suffer with cancer because it's so preventable. There was a study recently that looked at removing certain ingredients from beauty and personal care products. So, women without any history of breast cancer were asked to remove these ingredients from their products for 28 days. So, that's very short. Four weeks, right? They took cells from the breast tissue. They were all normal. They measured the amount of breast cancer gene expression.
4:59 Speaker 01 After 28 days, they took another sample. So, after 28 days of removing these ingredients, they took another sample and they saw that the breast cancer gene expression dropped.
5:11 Speaker 01 And the only thing that they were asked to change about their lifestyle was to remove these ingredients from their beauty and personal care products.
5:20 Steven Bartlett? And which products were they told to remove and what ingredients were those?
5:23 Speaker 01 It was skincare, deodorant, shampoo, things that most people are using. And the ingredients were phthalates, which can often be found in fragrance. So, the seemingly innocuous little term on the ingredients list, fragrance or parfum, can contain a huge number of chemicals. It's hidden behind this umbrella term because by law, in Europe and in the US, manufacturers do not have to disclose this. It is considered trade secret. And within that chemical mixture are known carcinogens, endocrine disruptors like phthalates.
6:04 Speaker 01 And the most potent allergens known to man. And with phthalates, the reason that they're in fragrances and that manufacturers love them so much is they're what are known as film formers. So it helps the fragrance to stick to surfaces like your skin, your clothing, and it helps to make it last longer and linger. So if you've ever sprayed something on yourself and are still able to smell it hours later, that's a telltale sign that you've been exposed to phthalates, that you have phthalates in that fragrance, in that product.
6:35 Steven Bartlett? And how many deodrons on the shelf have phthalates in them?
6:39 Speaker 01 If it's got fragrance in it, almost all of them.
6:43 Steven Bartlett? Okay.
6:43 Speaker 01 It's code, it's code for endocrine disrupting phthalates, essentially. You can assume that, and in fact, it's safe to assume that they contain phthalates.
6:51 Steven Bartlett? So I mean, this is one of the deodrons that I often use. It's just a, I mean, for anyone that's just listening, it's just like one of the deodrons you'd find on a shelf in any store that comes in a little, is this an aluminium can? Yeah, it is, an aluminium can. Does this have phthalates in it? How do I know?
7:10 Speaker 01 So you just turn, turn the container around and check the ingredients list. Do you see a word fragrance slash parfum?
7:17 Steven Bartlett? Yeah, fragrance, brackets, parfum.
7:21 Speaker 01 That's what you're looking for.
7:23 Steven Bartlett? Okay, so I shouldn't be spraying this all over my body?
7:25 Speaker 01 Right.
7:26 Steven Bartlett? Okay.
7:26 Speaker 01 So sometimes you'll see on there, it'll say phthalate free.
7:30 Steven Bartlett? Okay.
7:31 Speaker 01 Right, that's helpful, but that still doesn't take away the fact that there are known carcinogens and allergens in there. So if you've got any kind of respiratory problems, any kind of skin problems, and you just don't want to expose yourself to unnecessary carcinogens, then it would be beneficial to avoid fragrance.
7:47 Steven Bartlett? What about a little spray, just a psst?
7:51 Speaker 01 I mean, it depends. Is that really going to benefit you? Is, are you gonna get any effect from that little spray?
7:56 Steven Bartlett? I don't wanna smell. So this is why I spray this, because you know, this top is quite tight, so if it's tight and it's hot in here, I'll end up smelling. So I just spray psst, and then I'm really, it's public service for other people, really. I'm fine to smell myself, I can't even smell it, but it's for, you know, Jack and the team.
8:12 Speaker 01 Well, the question would be, can you find a safer alternative? And the answer is yes.
8:17 Steven Bartlett? How do I find a safer alternative? What am I looking for?
8:20 Speaker 01 So you don't want fragrances.
8:21 Steven Bartlett? At all?
8:21 Speaker 01 And you definitely, yes, so avoid the word fragrance unless it says that the fragrance comes from essential oils.
8:27 Steven Bartlett? Okay, but, but if it comes from essential oils, will it still make me smell nice?
8:32 Speaker 01 Yes.
8:32 Steven Bartlett? Okay.
8:33 Speaker 01 Yes, because that's where aromatic compounds come from. They come from plants. But just to give you more context on this aerosol spray, this is one of the worst products that you can use.
8:45 Steven Bartlett? I've been using it every day.
8:46 Speaker 01 Yeah, so I'll tell you why.
8:49 Speaker 01 Aerosols use propellants. Propellants are derived from petroleum. And there was a recall on thousands of products within the last couple of years that the propellants were a source of benzene contamination. And benzene is a known human carcinogen that you do not want to be inhaling. Because what you inhale goes to your brain, it goes quickly all over your body through the bloodstream. You don't want to be delivering a known human carcinogen into your bloodstream. You're just, it's not helping you at all.
9:21 Speaker 01 Because benzene is known to cause leukemia in people.
9:26 Speaker 01 So it's a no-brainer, if you want to avoid that, to avoid aerosols. But not only that, if you think about how you're actually applying the product, you're spraying it like this, right? In a stream and it heads toward your face. Then that's also an inhalation risk. Because there's particles in there, there's solids in there. You don't want to be inhaling unnecessary things. So the best option for deodorant is to look for something that has essential oils and is a roll-on or a stick, solid.
9:54 Steven Bartlett? Is there anything on the label that I can trust when it comes to deodrons? Is it, is there like a certain term that I'm looking for? You said phthalate three, phthalate free. Is there anything else that?
10:03 Speaker 01 Yes, so phthalate free and paraben free are definitely helpful.
10:07 Steven Bartlett? Okay.
10:08 Speaker 01 Because then we know at least two of the known endocrine disruptors that we have evidence on are not found in that product. But that doesn't exonerate everything else. We still need to be diligent about the ingredients because they are sources of Contamination of byproducts, of carcinogens, and hidden toxins, essentially.
10:31 Steven Bartlett? It is pretty crazy that I could get a lighter and go and it would be flammable. And then I spray that on my body like, like it's like I'm lathering myself in petrol or something. It is pretty crazy.
10:42 Speaker 01 That's essentially what that is.
10:44 Steven Bartlett? Petrol?
10:44 Speaker 01 Yeah, because it's coming from petroleum, all of the propellants and some of the other base ingredients. I'm sure I haven't looked at it, but I'm almost certain because that is the source of the majority of ingredients that go into these products.
10:56 Steven Bartlett? This is my last day ever using aerosol deodrons. Let's pull up a bin.
11:04 Steven Bartlett? Okay.
11:07 Steven Bartlett? Goodbye. Okay, that's gone. Okay, is this a better alternative? What I've got here is I've got this roll-on deodorant, which I think is one of the refillable ones.
11:19 Steven Bartlett? Is this a better alternative?
11:21 Speaker 01 At least from this level of what I know of the fact that it's a solid, yes, but I have to see the ingredients list. We have to look at the ingredients list to really know what's actually in the deodorant.
11:32 Steven Bartlett? Okay.
11:33 Speaker 01 So at least from a sustainability standpoint, that's definitely great to see, that it's not in a plastic container that is refillable. But we really need to check the ingredients.
11:42 Steven Bartlett? Okay, so I've got the ingredients list here. I've just pulled it up on my iPad. It says tapioca starch,
11:49 Steven Bartlett? baking soda, sunflower seed wax, cocoa seed butter,
11:57 Steven Bartlett? tocopheren oral estate, no idea what that is, sterile alcohol, perfume.
12:04 Speaker 01 So do you recognize the ingredients? Are they easily recognizable or do they sound highly synthetic, very chemical like?
12:12 Steven Bartlett? It says puff, perfume.
12:15 Speaker 01 Is there any indication on what's in the perfume?
12:17 Steven Bartlett? All our deodrons are scented with a blend of fragrances to give you the sense you love.
12:22 Speaker 01 Hmm. Is there any indication that it's phthalate free and paraben free?
12:30 Steven Bartlett? No.
12:31 Speaker 01 That's what should give us pause, is when we don't know what's in that fragrance term. That's really the issue.
12:39 Steven Bartlett? Okay, I mean, there's just so many bloody words. Phthalate-free deodorant.
12:47 Speaker 01 I've got a better way that I can help you search.
12:49 Steven Bartlett? Okay.
12:49 Speaker 01 If you just type in the word organic and then whatever product you're looking for. Organic deodorant. That is going to whittle down the choices significantly for you.
12:59 Steven Bartlett? Well, you're saying that if it's organic, that means that it won't contain the phthalates and the parabens?
13:04 Speaker 01 Not necessarily. This is where it gets a little bit nuanced, but at least it whittles down the results that you'll get in search. And then you can check the ingredients one by one and look for the one that has essential oils instead of the word fragrance. Because it's really the lack of transparency that should make us pause. We have no idea what's in there. We don't know what we're exposing ourselves to. And if you're someone who is concerned about the chemicals in the products you're using, the toxins you're being exposed to. If you are someone who is thinking about getting pregnant, are pregnant, breastfeeding,
13:41 Speaker 01 or just health conscious, and you don't want these toxins in your products, then this is the work that needs to be done.
13:48 Steven Bartlett? Interesting. So just because it's a roll-on doesn't necessarily mean it's safe?
13:53 Speaker 01 Right.
13:54 Steven Bartlett? Okay.
13:54 Speaker 01 Like you just demonstrated. And just because it's sustainable also doesn't mean it's safe. So there's a, there's a lot of marketing that goes on with products and, and manufacturers know that consumers are becoming savvy. They're becoming aware and they're demanding safer products. So they will hit all of the buttons and hope that somebody isn't diligent and doesn't see through that.
14:15 Steven Bartlett? Is fragrance so important because fragrance is an indicator that it contains these phthalates and parabens? Is that why I should be thinking fragrance is one indicator for whether the? Cosmetic product is toxic or not?
14:27 Speaker 01 Yeah, definitely. That would be probably the easiest and most obvious way that you can weed products out. Is just look for the word fragrance or parfum. And if there's no indication that it comes from plants, that it's from essential oils, then that's not something that you want to use.
14:44 Steven Bartlett? I read a stat that said ninety-one percent of antiperspirants, ninety-five percent of shaving products, eighty-three percent of moisturizers and sixty-three percent of sunscreens contain fragrance. And ninety-six percent of shampoos, ninety-eight percent of conditioners, ninety-seven percent of hair styling products contain fragrance as well. Why are they putting fragrance in everything? Would the products not sell if there weren't fragrance in there?
15:07 Speaker 01 Yeah, I think it's there's many reasons that they put fragrances in. So first of all, we are sensory beings and people respond to fragrances. Fragrances changes your mood, it uplifts your mood, it helps you feel more confident. Fragrances affect us on a very primal level. And the earlier and earlier that you can get hooked on fragrances, the better for these manufacturers, right? So that's why they're putting fragrances in even children's products and scented everything. If you notice, I've got kids. We go out and they look for slime. I said, let's look for unscented slime. It's nearly impossible to find it. You'd have to make your own slime at home. So that's what we've started doing. And the kids love it because they get to, you know, be like little chemists or whatever.
15:49 Speaker 01 But you cannot find even, even they have markers, pens, crayons, they've got scented stickers. I mean, scented everything, scented everywhere now. The fragrance industry has absolutely exploded in the last ten or fifteen years. And fragrances are the most pervasive source, one of the most pervasive sources of toxins in our homes, in our daily lives. It's almost like the new secondhand smoke. That's how prevalent it is. Because the chemicals, once you spray them, right? The reason you smell them is because they have volatilized, means that they have become gases and they reach your nose, you smell them. What that also means is that they are in the air.
16:30 Speaker 01 Studies have shown that these fragrance chemicals, phthalates, carcinogens, allergens, they bind to the dust in your home. So it's not like I smell this fragrance, I sprayed it three hours ago and I'm totally fine. Well, it's still in the air. It's always going to be in the air unless you physically remove the dust.
16:50 Speaker 01 So if you're not regularly dusting, mopping, sweeping and vacuuming, you're becoming re-exposed. And this is absolutely the worst for a child, a baby, who is crawling on the floor. Their faces and noses and airways are close to the ground. So they're inhaling the dust that have settled on the floor. I don't know many people that are sweeping and dusting every single day. But if you, if you have a child, then really, I really want you to listen to this. Because the child is putting stuff in their mouth. So they're ingesting these dust particles. They're ingesting the chemicals that are attached to the dust particles. They're inhaling them and they can't detox them. They can't detoxify them from their bodies. And so then what happens?
17:31 Speaker 01 They grow up, they start having allergies, they start having cognitive delays, they start having behavioral issues, they start storing more fat, they can't lose weight, they have low energy, depression, and a host of conditions that we think are nor are common, but doesn't mean they're normal and they're avoidable. That's, that's the part that is so important is that these conditions are avoidable.
17:59 Steven Bartlett? Before we start these podcasts, what we always do is we light some candles. And this is one of the candles that we light. Um, what's, you mentioned, I think you mentioned candles earlier on at the start of the conversation. But what's your opinion on candles? Are they safe?
18:13 Speaker 01 Depends on what type of candle you have. There is basically a safer alternative for pretty much any product that you can think of. So I'm not one that says across the board candles are toxic. It's very specific, conventional candles, paraffin wax, scented candles, which is what you'll see in stores. The majority of candles out there are the ones that we shouldn't be burning. So this is a scented candle. It doesn't say what type of wax it is. So we can be pretty certain that this is a paraffin wax candle. At least using the precautionary principle,
18:56 Speaker 01 we should assume that something is guilty before it's proven innocent. So unless we know for sure that this is not a paraffin wax candle, I wouldn't light it.
19:07 Steven Bartlett? So, because if I light it, then I'm pushing toxic chemicals into the air.
19:12 Speaker 01 Exactly. So, conventional candles. There are five main reasons why I would not burn a conventional candle. Number one is that when you light those candles, they liberate carcinogens like benzene, toluene, and formaldehyde. But not only that, ultrafine particles. Ultrafine particles are some of the most hazardous substances that you can create in your home. So, ultrafine particles are tiny particles, less than a hundred microns in diameter. Excuse me, less than point one microns in diameter, a hundred nanometers, invisible to the human eye.
19:53 Speaker 01 Tiny. And these particles have the ability to, as soon as you inhale them, they'll go into your brain. They have the ability to do that. They also have the ability to go as far down into the lung as one can go, all the way down to the alveoli. And down in those microscopic structures of the lung, that's where gas exchange happens. There's only one cell layer separating the outside from the inside, your bloodstream. One cell, that's pretty much nothing. That's pretty much no separation, no protection. So if an ultrafine particle can get that down, far down into your lungs, it's guaranteed into your bloodstream. It's getting all over your body. It's causing inflammation and oxidative stress, which are the basis of many chronic diseases.
20:38 Speaker 01 So, ultrafine particles, we need to avoid them as much as possible. And so, one way is to not light a conventional candle. Number two is that they're also releasing volatile organic compounds, right, as I mentioned. Number three, they contain undisclosed fragrance. And within fragrance, there can be endocrine disruptors, carcinogens, and allergens. So when you light these candles, you're getting all of these toxins into your air. Number four, some of the dyes that are used to color candles are carcinogenic. And nobody has any idea is, if you burn them, what are the health effects of burning these carcinogenic dyes? And number five, candles are largely unregulated,
21:21 Speaker 01 which means that if you were to look at that candle and it says soy blend.
21:27 Speaker 01 There can be paraffin wax in there, even though it says soy blend. A lot of people think soy blend, oh, it comes from soy. It must be healthier for me. So they'll go for that. But if it says soy blend, one should assume that it's a majority of petroleum-derived paraffin wax with a little bit of soy wax in there. Because the Consumer Product Safety Commission, which regulates candles, doesn't look at the ingredients in the candle. They're concerned with the vessel, the container of the candle, whether or not it's fireproof and whether or not the lead contains wit or the wick contains lead. They're not looking at what's in the wax. But studies have shown that when you light these candles,
22:11 Speaker 01 you are liberating a significant number of hazardous chemicals.
22:18 Steven Bartlett? So we shall use incense instead?
22:24 Speaker 01 Incense is even worse. And I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but incense is used by, has been used for thousands of years. But incense, as we know it now, is not the same as incense that was used 1,000 years ago. They now contain, again, phthalates, the endocrine disruptors, but also the ultrafine particles. And studies have shown that incense creates more ultrafine particles and pollutants than cigarette smoke. There's an increased risk of cancer because these ultrafine particles are damaging DNA. Damaged DNA leads to mutations. Mutations can lead to cancer. There's an increased incidence of cancer in temple workers. So people who are around incense for hours upon hours at a time,
23:08 Speaker 01 there's an increased risk of cancer. Not only that, there's an increased risk of cancer, almost threefold, in children whose parents burned incense in the home.
23:19 Steven Bartlett? Okay, wow. Okay, so no incense, my house is gonna stink.
23:23 Speaker 01 Well, you can use, there's different candles that you can use. So, based on my research, I looked, I was really hell-bent on finding, what is the type of candle that has the lowest emissions? The least emissions? Because let's, let's make it, I wanna make it really clear. Anytime you burn something, that's not necessarily healthy. But does it mean that you can't do whatever? No. If you find a candle that is low emission, like beeswax, essential oils, wooden or cotton wicks, then that's a much better alternative than your conventional paraffin wax scented candle, brightly colored.
24:02 Steven Bartlett? What you just listened to was a most replayed moment from a previous episode. If you wanna listen to that full episode, I've linked it down below. Check the description. Thank you.
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